Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-cn

December 01, 2000 - December 15, 2000



      
      In a message dated 12/1/00 7:00:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
      ronormar(at)apex.net writes:
      
      <<  I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system.  I would like
       to have some comments on this thing to help me decide.  Thanks in advance >>
      
      I have the large screen EIS on my Firestar it's great.!  There isn't a lot of 
      room for instruments on a FS; with all the stuff I wanted the EIS was the 
      only way to go.  I like the big red light which tells you instantly if 
      anything is above where you want to be.  I recomment getting the optional 
      Altimeter & VSI as well as the Outside Air Temp. sensor.  I also hooked up a 
      capacitive-type fuel gage- it's nice to know how much fuel you have.  The 
      cost is less than all the analog gages.  Get it!!
      
      Howard "Shack" Shackleford
      FS I
      SC
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
Ken and Gang: Sorry about the url. It is dead. http://auction.avweb.com/osauction.stm Went to the AVWEB home page and could not find hide nor hair of AVWEB Auction. Undoubtedly, they have discontinued it. Does anyone else know of another aviation oriented site that has an online auction? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Ron; I wouldn't trade my EIS for a ride in the Shuttle. G Aman FS 2 1274 72hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
Jack; Up here in the North I wear that much to bed! You gotta dress UP to go flying In northeast Ohio in December G. Aman FS2 closed cockpit with ducted heat from engine cooling discharge vents. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Ditto from Tampa, Duane...Lar is on-target... keep 'em coming. And be careful out on the big road... I understand there are semis full of ballots moving at high speed in all directions... Have not been active on the list because of work...have been doing some 60 hour weeks... also lots of TDY to lousy places... and a good shot of the flu this week, also... enough puke-bag excuses, though... I plan to be on leave next Monday and will go work the Fly a little. I put a lexan trim tab on the rudder a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a chance to try it... Made a wild guess about the size needed based on other ones I have seen on Fireflys...we'll see how it goes. While I'm on here, I wanted to ask some of you Fly drivers about the pitch trim changes from use of the droop ailerons... Mine really takes a healthy nose dump when they come down... even one notch... made me wonder whether there would be enough elevator authority to flare that little pig for a full stall landing with my flabby 200 lb butt perched out front... The w&b numbers look well within tolerance, but it feels a tad strange with those puppies full down...takes lots more elevator to hold the nose up than I anticipated. I plan to go out and play in the grass to explore that part of the envelope a little...starting with a full-droop stall series at altitude... and then working progressively slower wheel landings until we get down into full stall arrivals... Anyone out there have any sage observations on the table manners of this thing with the ailerons down??? Thankee... Sneezing Beauford in Brandon FL FF 076 ----- Original Message ----- From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:42 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > Good luck, Duane. Keep the stories coming, it helps keep us lazy-bonses > inspired. I miss the posts, too. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:13 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > > > > > Hey Tophera, gerken, Firehawk, Lindy, Hauck, Beauford etc, etc! Did you > all > > give up flying or writing :) > sure > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
> Anyone out there have any sage observations on the table manners of this > thing with the ailerons down??? > Thankee... Beauford and Gang: I got a little time in the Fire Fly. I experimented with flaperons a little, but found it to fly so slow without them that I did not make it a habit of using them. Most of my Fire Fly time was at Oshkosh or Lakeland, and everyone knows how the wind howls at both places, especially during the flyins. I felt more comfortable with roll control with flaperons up. Elevator control, with our without flaperons (I weigh 185) was never in question. I think you have the right idea about feeling out your new airplane though. Do it at altitude. The earth is much more forgiving at 3000 feet than at 30. Exagerating a little. 1,000 feet is more than enough altitude to check it out. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
I am trying to stay legal and clothes do not count because they are attached to me. They keep me warm as I get the plane out of the hangar, and I get even warmer pulling the rope to get it started. No primer. But it is fun to fly in cold weather. My Firefly will climb at 1000 to 1100 fpm at 6400 rpm when it is cold. Jumps off in to ground effect at about 27 mph. It makes it all worth while even if I do have to dress for it. I like driving thirty miles north to fly sixty miles south to my EAA chapter meetings and to be the only one to fly in because it is too cold to fly. I drive down to drop gas off so I can refuel and get back to the hangar. After I get there and the meeting is over the hangar doors come open and they get in their enclosed planes and fly. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson MO > >Jack; Up here in the North I wear that much to bed! You gotta dress UP to go >flying In northeast Ohio in December G. Aman FS2 closed cockpit with ducted >heat from engine cooling discharge vents. > > Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Beauford's flaperons
Your plan to check it out at altitude will tell you what you want to know. Get it up high, run in full flaps, and see what it does. Something I find interesting, the MKIII with full flaps and full power has enough elevator authority, but none to spare, especially with a good load in the second seat. How do the other Kolb birds fare in this situation? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Ditto from Tampa, Duane...Lar is on-target... keep 'em coming. And be >careful out on the big road... I understand there are semis full of ballots >moving at high speed in all directions... > >Have not been active on the list because of work...have been doing some 60 >hour weeks... also lots of TDY to lousy places... and a good shot of the flu >this week, also... enough puke-bag excuses, though... >I plan to be on leave next Monday and will go work the Fly a little. I put >a lexan trim tab on the rudder a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a >chance to try it... Made a wild guess about the size needed based on other >ones I have seen on Fireflys...we'll see how it goes. > >While I'm on here, I wanted to ask some of you Fly drivers about the pitch >trim changes from use of the droop ailerons... Mine really takes a healthy >nose dump when they come down... even one notch... made me wonder whether >there would be enough elevator authority to flare that little pig for a full >stall landing with my flabby 200 lb butt perched out front... The w&b >numbers look well within tolerance, but it feels a tad strange with those >puppies full down...takes lots more elevator to hold the nose up than I >anticipated. I plan to go out and play in the grass to explore that part of >the envelope a little...starting with a full-droop stall series at >altitude... and then working progressively slower wheel landings until we >get down into full stall arrivals... > >Anyone out there have any sage observations on the table manners of this >thing with the ailerons down??? >Thankee... >Sneezing Beauford in Brandon FL >FF 076 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:42 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > >> >> Good luck, Duane. Keep the stories coming, it helps keep us lazy-bonses >> inspired. I miss the posts, too. > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com> >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:13 PM >> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? >> >> >> > >> > Hey Tophera, gerken, Firehawk, Lindy, Hauck, Beauford etc, etc! Did you >> all >> > give up flying or writing :) > sure >> >> > >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Subject: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Hi Beauford, I have a little time in a FF too. Got you beat by 20 lb. ... but who keeps track of such things? I have not had a problem with what you are concerned about. I agree, feel it out at altitude. Flaperons do make a slightly steeper approach possible and shorten up your landing a little. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Beauford Tuton Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? Ditto from Tampa, Duane...Lar is on-target... keep 'em coming. And be careful out on the big road... I understand there are semis full of ballots moving at high speed in all directions... Have not been active on the list because of work...have been doing some 60 hour weeks... also lots of TDY to lousy places... and a good shot of the flu this week, also... enough puke-bag excuses, though... I plan to be on leave next Monday and will go work the Fly a little. I put a lexan trim tab on the rudder a couple of weeks ago and haven't had a chance to try it... Made a wild guess about the size needed based on other ones I have seen on Fireflys...we'll see how it goes. While I'm on here, I wanted to ask some of you Fly drivers about the pitch trim changes from use of the droop ailerons... Mine really takes a healthy nose dump when they come down... even one notch... made me wonder whether there would be enough elevator authority to flare that little pig for a full stall landing with my flabby 200 lb butt perched out front... The w&b numbers look well within tolerance, but it feels a tad strange with those puppies full down...takes lots more elevator to hold the nose up than I anticipated. I plan to go out and play in the grass to explore that part of the envelope a little...starting with a full-droop stall series at altitude... and then working progressively slower wheel landings until we get down into full stall arrivals... Anyone out there have any sage observations on the table manners of this thing with the ailerons down??? Thankee... Sneezing Beauford in Brandon FL FF 076 ----- Original Message ----- From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:42 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > Good luck, Duane. Keep the stories coming, it helps keep us lazy-bonses > inspired. I miss the posts, too. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MitchMnD(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 5:13 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > > > > > Hey Tophera, gerken, Firehawk, Lindy, Hauck, Beauford etc, etc! Did you > all > > give up flying or writing :) > sure > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
> > >While I'm on here, I wanted to ask some of you Fly drivers about the pitch >trim changes from use of the droop ailerons... Mine really takes a healthy I have never used the flaperons. I raised my horizontal stabilizer 1.5 inches to get it to fly with the stick centered at 55 mph indicated. I replaced the 15 inch chord ailerons with nine inch chord ailerons to be able to move the stick sideways at 55 mph. Later I moved the aileron tube push rod bearings in 13/16 on the "T" which gives 20 degree down max. This increase in mechanical advantage makes the aileron stick forces only slightly higher than elevator forces at 55 mph. I am using the small wheels and so I have trouble getting off soft grass fields. To get more lift and reduce the tenancy that a short wing has for twitchy ness, I have installed vortex generators. This lets the Firefly fly off into ground effect at 27 mph, which is 4 mph less than the power off stall speed. I make 50 mph indicated approaches, and when the field is made, I reduce the engine to an idle while maintaining the 50 mph. When I flair I am still doing 50 mph and you can feel the ground effect loading the ailerons. The plane decelerates rapidly in the ground effect and you must get it down so that you do not let it fall through the ground effect. This lets you touch down at 27-28 mph. The FBO where I keep my Firefly asked me to always fly the 700 agl pattern as the ga pilots so they have a chance of seeing me in the pattern. I always fly inside their pattern but it means I make much steeper descents to the runway. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
> I like driving thirty miles north to fly sixty miles south to my EAA > chapter meetings and to be the only one to fly in because it is too cold to > fly. > Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack: You are a man after my own heart. Your rationale is perfect for an afternoon flight. I would do the same thing in your situation. Before our UL club folded, I always flew to meetings. I usually had to be the first to depart so I could get back to my cow pasture before dark. If I don't have my airplane flying I don'td usually go to the airport. It only takes me a few minutes to fly the 11 miles to the AP. Driving is 25 miles and mucho traffic. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: anyone out there?
Finally self-installed my DSL line and got back on the air. Easy-Hah! Been flying with the guys this afternoon. Saw the first two about 1,000 feet AGL flying together. So I went over and joined them while they were climbing in a thermal for about 10 minutes-round and round,. Then they decided to go over and join four more of their friends in another thermal; we glided west about half a mile and started the whole thing again. So, spent the afternoon following these six buzzards around, hopping from one thermal to another. These guys are pro's at finding thermals, I think from looking at them it has something to do with the little fluffy feathers on their wings. When they glide cross country, they seem to do it in a line, I guess so at least one has a chance of picking up the some lift. No one I knew was flying today (at least they were not on the radio), but had fun with these critters anyway - and didn't use much gas :) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: "bob n." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Beauford's flaperons
I agree with the statements that FFs fly so slow that the flaperons aren't needed. Think Faa made them do it. And there isn't much elevator left in full flaps. Worse is a go-around. First notch is abt all I use. bn FF070 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: "bob n." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
And count me among the very satisfied EIS people. bn FF070 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Yah, be wary of those "table manners," amigo. It just might r'ar up and bite YOU, if you don't mind your manners. Then who would I have to pick on ?? Sounds like you're going about it the right way, though. Keep it up. Vamoose' mighty mill should be running by Christmas. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like. Doors and latches are done. Fiddling with gap seal, and.................back to covering tomorrow. YeeeeeeHaaaaawwww ! ! ! Can't Wait Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb List, R.I.P.? > > Ditto from Tampa, Duane...Lar is on-target... keep 'em coming. And be > careful out on the big road... I understand there are semis full of ballots > moving at high speed in all directions... > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Ken, I've talked to several outfits that do computer graphics - one of them at Copperstate. My understanding is that they print it to mylar or similar, and you stick it to your plane. Apparently, quite a few people are doing their trim colors that way. Expense is fairly high, but workable. Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> Second question "Does any one know of a source for aircraft nose > art, similar to W.W.II fighters, in a decal that can be applied to > poly-fiber?" > Ken > Firestar Builder > Tucson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> > To: "Kolb" > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:02 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > > > > > Getting pretty close to making a decision on the instruments for my > > FireStar. I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system. I would > like > > to have some comments on this thing to help me decide. Thanks in advance > > > > Ron Payne > > Gilbertsville, Ky. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swidersk(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
Date: Dec 01, 2000
John, Ken & All, I too have a King KX-99 & it served me well for many years. The squealch contol went out this year. Called all ove the US & found that all repair shops send them to one center. They had a $350 minimum charge & said they couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be more! They have been bought out by Bendix & I would guess that they since they don't produce them any more they are discouraging the owners from fixing them. Beats me! I looked around & settled on a JHP-500 for $300. Some tiny little thing just came out, forgot the name, but it fits in the palm of your hand & was priced right. The guy didn't like it though because it didn't have a key board to enter data & it was too difficult to use in flight. So watch out about programability. ...Richard Swiderski ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VHF Transcievers > > > > I'd like to get some input on VHF transceivers, > > Ken Broste > > Ken and Gang: > > I have been using a King KX99 handheld since 1989. Easy to > use. Compatible with intercom and headsets (real airplane > types). Can still be serviced at Bendix/King. > > However, I see the new family of hand helds cost aprx $100 > less than what it cost to overhaul my KX99.. Yeasu (sp) and > Icom seem to be dominating the market now days. I have no > experience with either. > > Might not hurt to look at some of the online aviation > equipment auctions like AVWEB Auction. I bought a used GPS > last Spring there. URL is: > > http://auction.avweb.com/osauction.stm > > Have fun. Think I'll take a look at what's being > auctioned. Haven't checked it out in a while. > > john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
Howard, O.K., if you want to be technical, it was 90 mph plus a 10 mph tailwind. But I like telling it better the way I did. And it was 100 mph over the ice (feeling of speed). But this year I have two carbs. Maybe I'll make a true 100. Do you think I will be unsafe? John Jung HShack(at)aol.com wrote: > John, I thought Vne was 90mph on a Firestar. > > Howard Shackleford > FS I > SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
Date: Dec 01, 2000
---------- > From: Richard Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VHF Transcievers > Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:42 PM > > > John, Ken & All, > > I too have a King KX-99 & it served me well for many years. The > squealch contol went out this year. Called all ove the US & found that all > repair shops send them to one center. They had a $350 minimum charge & said > they couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be more! I just sent in my Delcom to be repaired. Seems that a spike in voltage has done it in. I looked on the Delcom webpage and they repair any and all problems for 75.00 plus 5.00 for shipping. I am impressed. My stupidity usually cost much more. Other than the little thumb wheels, which really are not that bad, I am really impressed with the radio. The little sucker with a good antenna mounted in the plane puts out 6 watts. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
Date: Dec 01, 2000
Larry, I've had an old ICOM A-20 for about 10 years. The nice thing about it is that they will repair it for a MAX charge of $40 -FOREVER! I don't know if they still make this offer, or if it was just for radios sold back then. I've only had trouble with it once, they charged me $40, and I had the same problem a month or two later and they fixed it free. That is worth something, right? Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry & Karen Cottrel <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VHF Transcievers > > > ---------- > > From: Richard Swiderski <swidersk(at)digital.net> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VHF Transcievers > > Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:42 PM > > > > > > > John, Ken & All, > > > > I too have a King KX-99 & it served me well for many years. The > > squealch contol went out this year. Called all ove the US & found that > all > > repair shops send them to one center. They had a $350 minimum charge & > said > > they couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be more! > > > I just sent in my Delcom to be repaired. Seems that a spike in voltage > has done it in. I looked on the Delcom webpage and they repair any and all > problems for 75.00 plus 5.00 for shipping. I am impressed. My stupidity > usually cost much more. Other than the little thumb wheels, which really > are not that bad, I am really impressed with the radio. The little sucker > with a good antenna mounted in the plane puts out 6 watts. > Larry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
In a message dated 12/1/00 11:13:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrjung(at)execpc.com writes: << But this year I have two carbs. Maybe I'll make a true 100. Do you think I will be unsafe? >> John, I defer to your vast experience. I suspect you'll be OK as long as you don't do any Hi-G pullups. Two weeks ago, 3 of us Kolb Firestars [and a Challenger] did a long cross country. On the return trip the weather started closing in, so we decided to speed it up a little. I can tell you that, at 80 mph IAS, I began to think about the stresses on that drag strut. Howard "Shack" Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: MarkIII Questions?
Date: Dec 02, 2000
I am the proud owner of a used Mark III (88 TT) with a Rotax 582 and am anxious to fly. I will be flying for practice with very experienced ultra light pilot/owner, but someone who has not flown the Mark III yet. Q? What has been your experience as far as speed at lift off with only one person in the plane? Q? What approach and landing speed? Q? How do these numbers change with 2 average people (170 lbs each)? Q? What have been your take off lengths and landings (1 & 2 people)? I have made a runway on my own property that is 800' long, but has trees (40-50') at one end and a hill and houses at the other. I have been told "No problem" with the Mark III w/ the 582. Any comments. I live in northern Illinois (Rockford area), and am planning to move to Marco Island, Florida and take my plane. There is an airport off the island (4-5 miles) where I know I can fly to/from. Anyone in the area with an ultra light or is there a club? I sure am enjoying reading all of you guys mail. I am learning allot, which I really need to do. Thank you --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Lloyd McFarlane <lrmcf(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Windshield
I am looking for suggestions to secure the rubber molding to the short windshield on my FireStar. It vibrates loose after a few minutes. Probably an adhesive of some type? Lloyd Fullerton, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: MarkIII Questions?
Don't worry about the speed at lift off with just one person, it's about 40, but it's so quick that you won't even see it go by! Seriously, however, there are still some things to know about the MKIII's "quirks." The nose cone tapers, and that makes it odd to know what straight ahead is until you get used to it. Suggest that before you or your friend flys it, have someone stand 100' in front of the airplane, and note where on the dash or windshield your line of sight lines up. That is "straight ahead." When landing, plan your touchdown accordingly. A yaw string on the centerline of the windshield helps a lot also, as you get used to the airplane. For take offs, the high thrust line can have you on your nose if you are on the brakes and give it too much power. On takeoff, I go to 1/2 power, aft stick until it gets up to 10 mph or so, then full throttle. Accelerate, then stick forward so that you don't waddle off prematurely in ground effect, and then rotate and climb out at around 45. I make approaches at 55, fly it right down close to the ground, and hold it just off until it settles. I use however much or little throttle it takes to maintain 55 at my desired approach angle. With two people, I still use the same numbers. I have a strip that is 750' long, on about a 10 degree hill. Takeoff down hill, land uphill. Solo takeoffs use about 150', dual about 350'. If you have obstructions at each end, proceed with caution. The MKIII will do most anything within reason, but it's not Superman. For landings, you need to get acquainted with the flaps. The MKIII will float along in ground effect without them. With them, it slows down like a Quicksilver trying to glide uphill. With full flaps, you can get an incredibly steep approach angle that lets you get into little short fields, but until you get experience, there is a tendency (terror, self preservation) to start to round out and flare way too high. (note all the bent MKIII landing gear leg posts in the "Archives" section.) Practice full flap landings only after you get familiar with the airplane, and not at a field where you have to have them. As far as taking off with two people from an 800' strip with obstructions...do-able, but the wind needs to co operating, cool good air, etc. There will be days when you should not even consider it. Enjoy. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >I am the proud owner of a used Mark III (88 TT) with a Rotax 582 and am >anxious to fly. I will be flying for practice with very experienced ultra >light pilot/owner, but someone who has not flown the Mark III yet. > >Q? What has been your experience as far as speed at lift off with only one >person in the plane? > >Q? What approach and landing speed? > >Q? How do these numbers change with 2 average people (170 lbs each)? > >Q? What have been your take off lengths and landings (1 & 2 people)? >I have made a runway on my own property that is 800' long, but has trees >(40-50') at one end and a hill and houses at the other. I have been told >"No problem" with the Mark III w/ the 582. Any comments. > >I live in northern Illinois (Rockford area), and am planning to move to >Marco Island, Florida and take my plane. There is an airport off the >island (4-5 miles) where I know I can fly to/from. Anyone in the area with >an ultra light or is there a club? > >I sure am enjoying reading all of you guys mail. I am learning allot, >which I really need to do. Thank you > > >--- MIKE HOUSEWERT >--- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Windshield
I would use silicon seal. Put your trim on, then lay masking tape around the Lexan right up to the edge of the trim. Take the trim off, squirt the silicone into the groove, stick the trim in place and work it down. Wipe off any excess silicone, and then pull the tape off, let it cure. 2nd choice: 3M Weatherstrip Cement. Use sparingly, very messy. If you get any on a place where you don't want it, it will be there forever. Yuck. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >I am looking for suggestions to secure the rubber molding to the short >windshield on my FireStar. It vibrates loose after a few minutes. >Probably an adhesive of some type? > >Lloyd >Fullerton, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Halstead" <deanbo(at)calweb.com>
Subject: Buzzing Fishermen at 50 feet
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Buzzing fishermen on lakes: I hate to be a curmudgeon, but admitting to buzzing fishermen at 50 feet may not impart an impression of responsible flying to our land-bound brothers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Mark 111
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Mike: You didn't say how high those tree's were, but 800 feet on a hot summer day with two aboard would make it awful skinny if they were very tall. Becareful! Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Ar. 1300 foot strip, trees on both ends, Mark 111 with a 582, changed to a Jabiru 2200. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Trees
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Mike: I now see the trees would be 40 to 50 feet. Statemate still stands. I approach at 55 indicated, no less, and am about 45 at touchdown, stops 200, to 300 feet depending on load, but hot summer days really eat into your climb. Dallas Shepherd Norfork Mark 3, with Jabiru ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Windshield
In a message dated 12/2/00 10:28:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrmcf(at)ix.netcom.com writes: << I am looking for suggestions to secure the rubber molding to the short windshield on my FireStar. It vibrates loose after a few minutes. Probably an adhesive of some type? >> I used a thin film of "GOOP". It's at most hardware stores or Lowe's or Home Depot. Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments-Artificial Horizon
Am interested in acquiring an Artificial Horizon for my Firestar I. Is there anything available that will fit a 2 1/4" hole & runs on 12VDC & maybe doesn't cost an arm & a leg? Maybe I can find something at S & F... Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Ice flying
Ralph and Group, I'll comment on the saftety of flying up to the Vne: First, I believe that the 5 rib wing versions of the Firestar have a lower Vne then the 7 rib versions. Second, I worry more about stresses when flying in turbulance, than ice flying. Nothing that I do on the controls gives me G forces like summer thermals or ground turbulence. And ice flying tends to be really smooth, like when the wind dies on a high pressure summer evening. If I had turbulence, say from wind over the trees on shore, I would not approach Vne. I also do not yank on the stick at Vne speeds. I keep everything smooth. Actually, I keep things smooth all the time. If my plane gets jerked around, it is because of the rough air, not because of me. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
John and others, When I fly off the ice I don't even come close to Vne speed. I usually will fly about 35-50 mph 5 feet AGL. This is absolutely the safest flying anyone can do because an engine failure simply means an immediate landing on a nice surface with miles of runway ahead of you. If I were to stall the plane, the tailwheel would contact the ice and the mains would settle in. I always tell novice pilots to take their first flight off the ice. There are no crosswinds (can always land into the wind), no obstacles to hit, miles of runway, and don't have to confine the landing to a runway. Best of all, there are no thermals to kick you around and screw up the landing. See what you southern guys are missing .... (I say this every year) ........ Ralph Burlingame Original FireStar > I'll comment on the saftety of flying up to the Vne: > Firestar II N6163J > SE Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ice flying
> See what you southern guys are missing .... (I say this every year) > ........ > > Ralph Burlingame > Original FireStar Ralph and Gang: What? Frostbite? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
I thought your claim of near 100 mph in a firestar might be slightly optomistic.recent events have caused my to rethink my position. Lifted off about 8:30A.M.this morning,about 28 degrees showing, but sunny with light winds. I leveled off at 1000 ft set up 5200rpm showing about 57mph,and headed south. After about 5 minutes gawking out the window and not paying much attention to altitude and such, I saw that I had gained another 500 foot, so I came back on the throttle and gave it a little forward stick. Well, the nose came down OK but the revs came up too, so I came off the throttle a little more, then a little more! All I was getting for my trouble was a lot of slack cable between the handle and the housing. If you're thinking crab ice and maybe a little nudge on the throttle might break it loose,DON'T.Tried that and what it gets you is 6300rpm.If you try to maintain altitude you also get 96mph.Had to let it climb while I made a 180 and headed back to the airport.Also noted my cabin heater was working super good. I was actually starting to sweat. Now I'm back at the field at 3200 ft and planning to shut it off at mid field and hope for the best. Then I tried shutting off one mag and then momentarily the other to see how long it would windmill and still restart. About 2 seconds but it was loaded up enough that it took another 2 till it cleared out and started making some thrust, so now I could descend and keep it under 90mph although it did sound like a Spad with a sick Le Rohn (that don "t look right} in it. Investigation on the ground yielded these facts: No carb ice and no problem from the splitter back. But the cable still would not move from the handle back to the splitter. Water in the housing from getting caught in a thunder storm last July, on the ground thankfully. I took the cable off when I got home and blew it out. Just enough moisture to see on a paper towel but plenty to overcome all the return springs in the throttle system.Hey,a clean change of Jockeys and we will try again tomorrow G. Aman FS2 73hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Windshield
Super glue holds it well on mine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying
In a message dated 12/2/00 8:14:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com writes: << Nope, flew for 2 hours today and not a hint of frostbite. We wear a thermal head protector that covers the head and face. >> Ralph, tell me about this "thermal head protector". The only place I get cold is the space between my scarf [around my neck] and my Comtronics helmet. Is it something you can wear with glasses? I need to find something that is open around the nose & mouth so my glasses don't fog from my breath. Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 12/01/00
<<<<4130 Chromoly Steel in its normalized state is not very flexible. On the other hand, when heat treated to 48 Rockwell, the tube becomes a spring and very flexible.>>>>> John what do you do to heat treat the steel to get to 48 rockwell???? and after you have done it how do you know if you did it corectly????? boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments-Artificial Horizon
In a message dated 12/2/00 8:37:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net writes: << Uh Shack I don't think flying in IMC is recommended in a Firestar.....:) >> Yeah, I know, Jeff, but twice I have inadvertently gotten into fog/low clouds and it ain't fun; fortunately, I was able to exit within about 40 of the longest seconds I've ever experienced. I'm hoping to find an Artificial Horizon at a reasonable price and hope I never need it. Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
In a message dated 12/1/00 7:48:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes: << http://auction.avweb.com/osauction.stm Have fun. Think I'll take a look at what's being auctioned. Haven't checked it out in a while. john h >> John, I tried and failed to use your URL above...was it goofed up somehow? GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 12/01/00
> what do you do to heat treat the steel to get to 48 > rockwell???? and after you have done it how do you know > if you did it corectly????? > > boyd Greetings Boyd and Gang: After everything is lined up and drilled, the 4130 is loaded in my old Dodge truck and hauled up to Birmingham, Alabama, to a professional heat treating facility. CRS the name of the place now. I'll have to look in my receipt file back in 1993. I tell them what I have and what I want done to it. When it is ready, I pick up the parts and a certificate. Once I noticed some small punch marks on the individual pieces. This is caused by the testing process, I guess testing for hardness. Most large towns have heat treating companies to do the job professionally. It is not an expensive process, but you know it is done right. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 44 Msgs - 12/01/00
Does anyone else know of another aviation oriented site that has an online auction? john h this sight is not an auction but you can post clasified ads for free or look over the ads left by others it is free. ebay is good if you look at ehe aviation section. or do a search for what you are looking for. http://wingsonline.com/avionics.html boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: VHF Transcievers
> John, I tried and failed to use your URL above...was it goofed up somehow? > GeoR38 GeoR38 and Gang: After I hit the send button on the above msg, I tried the url and came up empty. Reasearched AVWEB and discovered there is no mor AVWEB Auction. :-( john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying and EIS
In a message dated 12/2/00 9:36:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, ZepRep251(at)aol.com writes: << No carb ice and no problem from the splitter back. But the cable still would not move from the handle back to the splitter. Water in the housing from getting caught in a thunder storm last July, on the ground thankfully. I took the cable off when I got home and blew it out. Just enough moisture to see on a paper towel but plenty to overcome all the return springs in the throttle system.Hey,a clean change of Jockeys and we will try again tomorrow G. Aman FS2 73hrs >> Good Story ...GeoR38 Akron, Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Windshield
I have found that sometimes superglue will make Lexan fill itself with tiny cracks. Locktite will also. Any chemists on the list? Input? Help? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Super glue holds it well on mine. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments-Artificial Horizon
Date: Dec 02, 2000
I agree with Shack. Things close in awfully fast here in Oregon also, and I also want one, and hope to never have to depend upon it. It is really a comfort however when needed. Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: <HShack(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Instruments-Artificial Horizon > > In a message dated 12/2/00 8:37:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, > geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net writes: > > << Uh Shack I don't think flying in IMC is recommended in a Firestar.....:) >> > > Yeah, I know, Jeff, but twice I have inadvertently gotten into fog/low clouds > and it ain't fun; fortunately, I was able to exit within about 40 of the > longest seconds I've ever experienced. > > I'm hoping to find an Artificial Horizon at a reasonable price and hope I > never need it. > > Shack > FS I > SC > > Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/02/00message of Sat,
2 > Hey, Shack...in a pinch a whiskey compass can double up as an artificial > horizon or "attitude indicator". > Hillbilly Mike Shackelford Hi Hillbilly and Gang: Have you done any training under the hood using the "whiskey compass method"? How effective is this method in a trimmed turn? climbing or descending turn? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Windshield
In a message dated 12/3/00 12:17:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, richard(at)BCChapel.org writes: << I have found that sometimes superglue will make Lexan fill itself with tiny cracks. Locktite will also. Any chemists on the list? Input? Help? Richard Pike >> Superglue dries very hard and brittle & will crack when flexed.; the "GOOP" I recommended is a strong adhesive in a tube about the size of toothpaste that, when cured, is still flexible. Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
In a message dated 12/3/00 11:13:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart(at)ldd.net writes: << The compass ball will be centered in a coordinated bank. This means you could be in a bank and not know it and this is the beginning of an ever tightening bank by which you will over stress the wings, etc. >> From the From the Fly-UL list, Ken Kennedy says a "Turn Needle" will do the same thing as an "Artificial Horizon" at a fraction of the cost. Not being familiar with either one, is this true? Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
> >From the Fly-UL list, Ken Kennedy says a "Turn Needle" will do the same thing > as an "Artificial Horizon" at a fraction of the cost. Not being familiar > with either one, is this true? > > Shack Shack: Turn and Bank indicator gives information as the name implies. It lacks pitch attitude. However, you can fly partial panel with turn and bank and airspeed indicator. Can do almost as good with ASI and mag compass or gps. At a constant power setting from level flight, if AS increases, you are descending, if AS decreases, you are climbing. If it is not too rough, the mag compass will tell you if you are turning, of course if you are not climbing or descending, and that is a class for a later date. :-) Best bet is to plan ahead, don't push weather, and stay legal and VFR. However, it doesn't hurt to know what to do if you screw up and get caught in IFR conditions. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Geezer810(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Moving
Moving to new address and will have new e-mail address. Will sign up again within a couple of weeks. Later, Harry Wingert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
In a message dated 12/3/00 12:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes: << Turn and Bank indicator gives information as the name implies. It lacks pitch attitude. However, you can fly partial panel with turn and bank and airspeed indicator. >> John H., I had already figured out determining pitch by ASI, but I still want to make sure I understand- Turn & Bank indicator=Turn Needle=Artificial Horizon [more or less]? In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 1/4" hole? Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
> In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings > level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 1/4" > hole? > > Shack Shack and Gang: Turn and Bank tells you degree of bank and rate of turn. Aircraft Spruce or any aviation vendor has them available in 12/24V and vacumn driven. They are expensive in Acft Spruce. Recommend checking out some aircraft instrument overhaul facilities for pricing and availability. It is not an attitude indicator. Also something to remember about attempting to fly in IFR conditions, or getting caught in those conditions: Unless you have had proper training and are current flying on the gauges (this is in a instrument certified aircraft), your chances of survival are extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but not recommended. Twenty four years ago I was an Active Army Rotary Wing Aviator with a Standard Instrument Ticket. I have not flown instruments since June 1976. I would not consider tackling any kind of IFR weather in any kind of aircraft now. Take care, fly safe, john h PS: Check out the accident statistics for Alaska. Most accidents in Alaska are contributed to weather. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GDLedbette(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
Duane, all Kolbers, et al.. Haven't had any new Kolb related news to share until this week but always find your reports of great interest. The Firefly is still at LiteSpeed while I fit out the trailer for travel. I've decided to hang the wings near the side walls on long journeys and have been busy fabricating the bracketry this week. Went to DC for Thanksgiving with daughter so that week was lost for all Firefly activity. The weather was bad on Wednesday and Thursday morning was also rotten, but lo and behold, the sun came out around 2:30pm and I was able to get another 30 minutes in with one touch and go and two full stops before another big black cloud blew in and made it too cold to continue. OK, Ice Flyers, I know that you don't think it's ever too cold to fly but I just don't have your equipment and really don't have an interest in acquiring any yet The good news is that the engine is breaking in and I was able to climb to 1500 ft on the last flight. You know, I always thought that takeoffs were a piece of cake and landings were the only part of flying that had a significant pucker factor. Well, I've quickly discovered that the Firefly is also capable of giving one a pucker or two on takeoff. I obviously need some more takeoffs in order to not make each one an adventure. Since I took my transition training in the Kolbra trainer which has no flaps, I never seem to remember to use flaps on landing and quite frankly, haven't missed them. Plan on returning to finish the trailer installation next Saturday and hope the sun is out for more takeoff experiences.... Also would like to do my first stalls. Gene Ledbetter Cincinnati, OH Firefly 00-2-00018, both canopies, big wheels and brakes, Ivo 2 blade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: Bob Singer <hp2693(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Radios
Someone yesterday was asking about a good portable radio to use. Our little group here in NW Missouri are getting the little "personal radios" that Motorola, Bell South and others are making for group flying and just around the patch. They have 14 channels, you don't need a license and most have headphone/external mic jacks. Radio shack has a neat earphone (like a hearing aid) mic combination that clips on your collar or where ever. They advertise a two mile range for the radio but in the air, you get out farther than that. Everyone works off the same channel and keeps in touch. Wal Mart has the Bell South ones on sale now for $19.95 and the Radio Shack mic/earphone is $19.95 also. Someone in the pack always has a avaition portable and keeps the rest informed. Bob Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: "bob n." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
OK, I know no one (or only a few) want to hear abt early flying, but this AH vs compass et al can stand a few words. Certainly, an artificial horizon would be great, especially in IMC---but there was a time, in the distant past where few planes had an AH. They were lucky if they had a so-called *ball bank*, a small upwardly-curved liquid-filled tube with a teeny ball inside.Then came the so-called *needle*, an upright bar positioned by a vacuum-driven gyro. So keeping the ball centered, needle up, and constant airspeed--you are flying straight and level IFR. Called *needle, ball and airspeed.* With ball still centered, bar leaning one or two widths, constant airspeed= a nicely coordinated turn---still IFR. Few modern pilots have either never done N,B,AS, or could in an emergency. It's kinda demanding, but after some time in IFR, you'll get a real feeling of accomplishment. done lecturing bn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re:FireFly Flaperons, Reflex Angle
Beauford et al. My FireFly flaperons are reflexed up ~ 3 degrees (measured through aileron and wing bow centerlines) to keep the nose up and level at ~ 60 MPH. I also have an elevator trim tab which measures about 2 x 6" and is angled down about 15 Deg. It took both of these adjustments to relieve the back pressure I had to exert on the stick. No other performance characteristics were effected. I only weigh 150+ LB so I could not figure out what was making her so nose heavy but this solution seems to have resolved the problem. Yes, I do use full flaps on the last part of final, especially when I am doing engine out (actually idled) practices. The flaperons will reduce your stall speed and ground roll but bear in mind that this reduction is at the expense of increased drag and glide angle. When mother earth is coming at you the tendency is to flair early and drop below that lower stall speed before you know it. I learned with the engine idling and my hand on the throttle in case I needed to add some last minute air speed. I plan to maintain this skill hoping to never use it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re:FireFly Flaperons, Reflex Angle
I only weigh 150+ LB so I could not figure out > what was making her so nose heavy but this solution seems to have resolved > the problem. Duane the Plane and Gang: You are probably suffering more from high thrust line, rather than be nose heavy or forward CG. Try this experiment next time you are up in altitude, 1,000 feet or so. In straight and level flight, come back on the throttle to idle speed. Keep the airplane flying 5 to 10 mph above stall speed. When you have completed this exercise, come back and tell us what happened. If it has characteristics similar to the Firestar and MK III, when power is pulled and airspeed reduced, the nose down tendancy and requirement to hold aft stick pressure will disappear. My MK III goes neutral when slowed down to about 5 mph over stall. Pour the power to her and the nose up trim has to be cranked back in to relieve the aft pressure on the stick. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
your chances of survival are extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but not recommended. Twenty four years ago I was an Active Army Rotary Wing Aviator with a Standard Instrument Ticket. I have not flown instruments since June 1976. I would not consider tackling any kind of IFR weather in any kind of aircraft now. Take care, fly safe, john h PS: Check out the accident statistics for Alaska. Most accidents in Alaska are contributed to weather. There are pilots on this list FAR more experienced than I but on this question of inexperience in IMC conditions I can throw in my $.02 cents worth. I have a friend that wanted to go to Muscle Shoals, Al. a few weeks ago and asked me to fly him , (from Columbus, Ga.) Having my 4 month old private pilot license and looking for a good excuse to go flying I thought "Great!" Anyhow , I checked with the local FSS and got a good weather briefing , worked up a flight plan , filed a flight plan and away we went in a C-172. Well the conditions were kind of interesting. Not a cloud in the sky , just a "little haze", visibility about 6-7 miles. Well about 30 minutes out viz was more like 3 in my opinion and a quick call to "Flight watch" confirmed my suspicions...some enroute airports had visibility around 2 or less but destination was clear and 10 miles vis so thought maybe we can go above it. (The high pressure system we were under and the 3-4 weeks of no rain meant large amounts of dust and who knows what else choking up the view and just "sitting" over us with no wind to move it on out.) "Flight watch" said top of haze at 8000 , so check everything and up we go. Well from 2500-4500 things were about the same , but about 6000 I look down and there is no ground reference anymore (hadn't had a horizon since takeoff due to no horizontal visibility) Well the old standard rate 180 turn to get out of IMC wouldn't help obviously so I got my head in the cockpit and ignored the white outside. Pull the carb heat , and power back and put the nose down and set up a nice slow and LEVEL descent. Took a glance outside at about 3000 to see if there was any green below and low and behold there was. Told my buddy that he was gonna have to drive to Muscle Shoals and made a bee line back to CSG. All that to say this , yes a couple of gauges can help you but I'd had hood training recently (private pilot training) and was kind of "fresh" at it. But have had it demonstrated to me that even with all the IFR bells and whistles that I was staring at, my inner ear was telling me I was banking and it took TOTAL CONCENTRATION to ignore it and JUST FLY THE GAUGES. There should be NO FALSE sense on security because you have some little needle in your dash that you have any better chance of surviving then the next guy. I think the number one emphasis needs to be to NOT GET INTO IMC. In my case the first mistake of the day was getting in the plane. With my experience level (and no hardcore IFR training , just rudimentary stuff to pass the hood requirements for private ticket) I had no business out there with no chance of seeing a horizon for an entire 2+ hour flight and especially with another fellow in the plane with me. I did see the error of my ways and make a (late , but still needed) NO-GO decision. Jeremy "a little wiser now" Casey P.S. After all this typing it certainly feels like more than $.02 worth... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
I have one more comment to say about this instrument. I am going to spend over $2000 on a Chute for my Xtra. I am going to fly safe, and slow, but if I ever need it........ same thing! Julian Warren, Eugene,Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: <HShack(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > In a message dated 12/3/00 12:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes: > > << Turn and Bank indicator gives information as the name > implies. It lacks pitch attitude. However, you can fly > partial panel with turn and bank and airspeed indicator. >> > > John H., I had already figured out determining pitch by ASI, but I still want > to make sure I understand- Turn & Bank indicator=Turn Needle=Artificial > Horizon [more or less]? In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings > level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 1/4" > hole? > > Shack > FS I > SC > > Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RPHanks(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Hello from Oregon!
Hi Mika, I thought it was about time to send you an update. I am married, as you know, to Dayna now and living in Ashland. It is an interesting town not far from Medford and only about two hours driving time west of Bonanza. Dayna is in her last year of University to become a music teacher. She is student teaching this year and the kids love her almost as much as I do. I am working as a mechanic in White City near Medford. I work for Kodak, the company that makes all of the film. We make medical imaging film at this plant. Our biggest product is called Dry-View, a digital X-ray film that is developed in a dry process machine almost like a copy machine. I took the job so that I could be in Ashland with Dayna. I decided that since we were married we should probably live together :-). I am learning a few new skills and the pay is much better than farming although you can't have a beer while working. I finally finished my little airplane last year and have been having a blast flying it around. There is nothing like flying to make you feel absolutely free. All of life's problems seem so much smaller from 2000 meters above the earth! And at 100 meters you can even smell people's barbecues when you fly over. Dad is just getting back from Portland. He has been having some problems with his heart. He has some blocked arteries and such. He is doing much better, thank God , since his last surgery. Danny has bought a business in Klamath Falls. He sprays lawns and gardens for people and businesses. So far it is doing well, but it keeps him very business in the summer. In the winter he works at home on the farm. His girls Hannah(8), Kirsten(6) and Kaylie(3) are growing fast and a lot of fun. Vera is teaching them gradeschool at home and working part time as a nurse at the hospital in Klamath Falls. Linden is still fixing sprinkler pipes in the summer and working in his shop in the winter. His sons Clinton and Miles are 15 and 13 now. Both of them are taller than me already (life is not fair!). Helen does all of the book work for the business and helps Mom with her book work also. All in all, God has been good to us. How is life going for you? I hope all is well and you and your wife have a great Christmas season. Roger and Dayna Hankins 1361 Quincy 3-C Ashland, OR 97520 USA RPHanks(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
> >your chances of survival are >extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further >reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but >not recommended. >There are pilots on this list FAR more experienced than I but on this >question of inexperience in IMC conditions I can throw in my $.02 cents >worth. I think this applies here as posted by Ralph Burlingame 7/21/99? from the list-good read even the 2nd time. 178 Seconds to Live How long can a pilot who has little or no instrument training expect to live after he flies into bad weather and loses visual contact? Researchers at the University of Illinois did some tests and came up with some very interesting data. Twenty student "guinea pigs" flew into simulated instrument weather, and all went into graveyard spirals or roller coasters [attribute to the U of I flight training program??]. The outcome differed in only one respect - the time required till control was lost. The interval ranged from 480 seconds to 20 seconds. The average time was 178 seconds -- two seconds short of three minutes. Here's the fatal scenario. . . . . . . The sky is overcast and the visibility is poor. That reported five mile visibility looks more like two, and you can't judge the height of the overcast. Your altimeter tells you that you are at 1500 feet but your map tells you that there's local terrain as high as 1200 feet. There might be a tower nearby because you're not sure how far off course you are. But you've flown into worse weather than this, so press on. You find yourself unconsciously easing back just a bit on the controls to clear those towers. With no warning, you're in the soup. You peer so hard into the milky white mist that your eyes hurt. You fight the feeling in your stomach. You try to swallow, only to find your mouth dry. Now you realize you should have waited for better weather. The appointment was important, but not all that important. Somewhere a voice is saying, "You've had it -- it's all over!" You now have 178 seconds to live. Your aircraft feels on even keel but your compass turns slowly. You push a little rudder and add a little pressure on the controls to stop the turn but this feels unnatural and you return the controls to their original position. This feels better but now your compass is turning a little faster and your airspeed is increasing slightly. You scan your instruments for help but what you see looks somewhat unfamiliar. You're sure that this is just a bad spot. You'll break out in a few minutes. (But you don't have a few minutes left. . .) You now have 100 seconds to live. You glance at your altimeter and you are shocked to see it unwinding. You're already down to 1200 feet. Instinctively, you pull back on the controls but the altimeter still unwinds. The engine is into the red and the airspeed, nearly so. You have 45 seconds to live. Now you're sweating and shaking. There must be something wrong with the controls; pulling back only moves the airspeed indicator further into the red. You can hear the wind tearing at the aircraft. You are about to meet your Maker; you have 10 seconds to live. Suddenly you see the ground. The trees rush up at you. You can see the horizon if you turn your head far enough but it's at a weird angle -- you're almost inverted. You open your mouth to scream but. . . . . .. you just ran out of seconds. Think about it before you press on into marginal weather Lucian Bartosik> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
> I have one more comment to say about this instrument. I am going to spend > over $2000 on a Chute for my Xtra. I am going to fly safe, and slow, but if > I ever need it........ same thing! > > Julian Warren, Julian and Gang: Howdy! I assume you are talking about turn and bank, and attitude indicators or artificial horizons. OK. Let me say a couple things and then I will shut up. :-) I think. If you want to compare an attitude indicator or turn and bank with a ballistic recovery parachute, that is ok. The only training requirement to operate the ballistic recovery system is to train one's mind to actuate it when the time comes, to train ones hand or hands to know where the deployment handle is by actually locating it with your eyes closed, and to be able to pull the handle when required. Forgot one of the most important steps in your check list, first pull the safety pin and flag. And another, don't forget you have a ballistic recovery system on board. Be surprised how many fatalities there are with recovery systems never activated. Have to be able to do it instinctively. To fly in actual weather conditions successfully, one must have extensive instrument training in a instrument certified aircraft. Once the pilot gets that training, he must stay current. I know from personal experience I can not fly instruments, especially solo unless I stay current, or have a current instrument rated copilot. That was 24 years ago. Now? I doubt if I could do it again. Don't want to anyhow. I personally do not have an attitude indicator or turn and bank. I feel having those instruments installed may give me a false sense of capability and prejudice my decisions to fly or not in less than VFR weather. However, no matter how you get yourself into actual weather, if you have the attitude indicator on board, it is operational, and you are proficient in flying weather with it, you will have a better chance for survival. If you can not fly actual instruments, you will not last long. If for some reason you doubt what I say, go get some hood time in a MK III with an attitude indicator or a turn and bank indicator. That's not full panel. That is partial panel. Try it in a 152 or 172 with full panel. Then try a little inadvertent IFR. If that doesn't get your attention, nothing will. Just my humble opinion. john h PS: I guess what I am saying is, just because one thinks he can do it, does not necessarily make it so!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
There was a statistic that was brought repeatedly to my attention as I was working on my private pilot's license. "85% of VFR entries into IMC result in fatalities." You're asking for an early, a very early death, my friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 12:07 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings > > level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 1/4" > > hole? > > > > Shack > > Shack and Gang: > > Turn and Bank tells you degree of bank and rate of turn. > Aircraft Spruce or any aviation vendor has them available in > 12/24V and vacumn driven. They are expensive in Acft > Spruce. Recommend checking out some aircraft instrument > overhaul facilities for pricing and availability. > > It is not an attitude indicator. Also something to remember > about attempting to fly in IFR conditions, or getting caught > in those conditions: Unless you have had proper training > and are current flying on the gauges (this is in a > instrument certified aircraft), your chances of survival are > extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further > reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but > not recommended. Twenty four years ago I was an Active Army > Rotary Wing Aviator with a Standard Instrument Ticket. I > have not flown instruments since June 1976. I would not > consider tackling any kind of IFR weather in any kind of > aircraft now. > > Take care, fly safe, > > john h > > PS: Check out the accident statistics for Alaska. Most > accidents in Alaska are contributed to weather. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
A turn and bank indicator only gives you rate of turn. It will not tell you if you are in a 10 degree bank or a 45 degree bank. How many of you if caught in IMC by some stupid, idiotic action know how many seconds at a standard rate of turn will put you on a heading 180 degrees from your former heading? Imagine try flying around inside of a milk jug and all you see around you is white. Some of you people really scare me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > > >From the Fly-UL list, Ken Kennedy says a "Turn Needle" will do the same thing > > as an "Artificial Horizon" at a fraction of the cost. Not being familiar > > with either one, is this true? > > > > Shack > > Shack: > > Turn and Bank indicator gives information as the name > implies. It lacks pitch attitude. However, you can fly > partial panel with turn and bank and airspeed indicator. > Can do almost as good with ASI and mag compass or gps. At a > constant power setting from level flight, if AS increases, > you are descending, if AS decreases, you are climbing. If > it is not too rough, the mag compass will tell you if you > are turning, of course if you are not climbing or > descending, and that is a class for a later date. :-) > > Best bet is to plan ahead, don't push weather, and stay > legal and VFR. However, it doesn't hurt to know what to do > if you screw up and get caught in IFR conditions. > > Take care, > > john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Excellent post, Possum. The best we've had on here for months. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Possum" <possums(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:02 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > > >your chances of survival are > >extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further > >reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but > >not recommended. > > >There are pilots on this list FAR more experienced than I but on this > >question of inexperience in IMC conditions I can throw in my $.02 cents > >worth. > > I think this applies here as posted by > Ralph Burlingame 7/21/99? from the list-good read even the 2nd time. > > 178 Seconds to Live > > How long can a pilot who has little or no instrument training expect to > live after he flies into bad weather and loses visual contact? > > Researchers at the University of Illinois did some tests and came up > with some very interesting data. Twenty student "guinea pigs" flew into > simulated instrument weather, and all went into graveyard spirals or > roller coasters [attribute to the U of I flight training program??]. The > outcome differed in only one respect - the time required till control > was > lost. The interval ranged from 480 seconds to 20 seconds. The average > time was 178 seconds -- two seconds short of three minutes. > > Here's the fatal scenario. . . . . . . > The sky is overcast and the visibility is poor. That reported five mile > visibility looks more like two, and you can't judge the height of the > overcast. Your altimeter tells you that you are at 1500 feet but your > map tells you that there's local terrain as high as 1200 feet. There might > be a > tower nearby because you're not sure how far off course you are. But > you've flown into worse weather than this, so press on. > You find yourself unconsciously easing back just a bit on the > controls to clear those towers. With no warning, you're in the soup. > You peer so hard into the milky white mist that your eyes hurt. You > fight the feeling in your stomach. You try to swallow, only to find your mouth > dry. Now you realize you should have waited for better weather. The > appointment was important, but not all that important. > Somewhere a voice is saying, "You've had it -- it's all over!" > You now have 178 seconds to live. > Your aircraft feels on even keel but your compass turns slowly. You > push a little rudder and add a little pressure on the controls to stop > the turn but this feels unnatural and you return the controls to their > original position. This feels better but now your compass is turning a > little faster and your airspeed is increasing slightly. > You scan your instruments for help but what you see looks somewhat > unfamiliar. You're sure that this is just a bad spot. You'll break out > in a few minutes. > > (But you don't have a few minutes left. . .) > > You now have 100 seconds to live. > You glance at your altimeter and you are shocked to see it unwinding. > You're already down to 1200 feet. Instinctively, you pull back on the > controls but the altimeter still unwinds. The engine is into the red and > the airspeed, nearly so. You have 45 seconds to live. > Now you're sweating and shaking. There must be something wrong with the > controls; pulling back only moves the airspeed indicator further into > the red. You can hear the wind tearing at the aircraft. You are about to > meet your Maker; you have 10 seconds to live. Suddenly you see the > ground. The trees rush up at you. You can see the horizon if you turn > your head far enough but it's at a weird angle -- > > you're almost inverted. You open your mouth to scream but. . . . . .. > you just ran out of seconds. > > Think about it before you press on into marginal weather > > Lucian Bartosik> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: trailer condensation
I orderd a new 24' haulmark enclosed trailer this past summer for my fs1, ( I feel like I'am in heaven) the plane spent most of the time in the garage while I was near completion of the project and sometimes in the trailer when I did not want my poor pickup to get wet when it rained. Here in minnesota it has started to get cold, the firestar has been in the trailer for about 1 month of fairly cold weather and when I opened the trailer for the first time in over a month the engine was covered in ice crystals and the outside of the gas was also iced-up. my guess is there is no circulation in the trailer, I have no vents or windows in this trailer and it's exterior is aluminum with some wood trim on the inside. I have several questions. #1 will this cause premature rusting on the 447 and internal parts of the engine. #2 Do you think I'am also getting moisture in the tank because of the outside of the tank is in ice crystals. #3 I would like to hear your comments on what you think I should do to prevent this from happening. should I vent the ceiling or maybe put a lightbulb or heat lamp over the engine. I don't like that idea myself. so if you have any suggestions please let me know, I don't care if you live in hawk holler alabama or or the north pole, your opinion or vote counts, or does it, hehehe. thanks, Gary r. voigt firestar kxp 0 hrs-----still waiting for a couple more inches for my 3 mile runway and may use every foot of it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swidersk(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: trailer condensation
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Gary, I am with you, I think ventilation is a significant issue. I have a hinged door in my floor with the hole screened in, and I mounted my 2 windows as close to the ceiling as possible. When I park the trailer, I crack the windows & open the trap door. Extreme heat is avoided & the temperature stays normalized when cold & condensation is kept to a minimum. ...Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:04 PM Subject: Kolb-List: trailer condensation > > I orderd a new 24' haulmark enclosed trailer this past > summer for my fs1, ( I feel like I'am in heaven) the plane > spent most of the time in the garage while I was near > completion of the project and sometimes in the trailer when > I did not want my poor pickup to get wet when it rained. > Here in minnesota it has started to get cold, the firestar > has been in the trailer for about 1 month of fairly cold > weather and when I opened the trailer for the first time in > over a month the engine was covered in ice crystals and the > outside of the gas was also iced-up. my guess is there is no > circulation in the trailer, I have no vents or windows in > this trailer and it's exterior is aluminum with some wood > trim on the inside. I have several questions. > > #1 will this cause premature rusting on the 447 and > internal parts of the engine. > > #2 Do you think I'am also getting moisture in the tank > because of the outside of the tank is in ice crystals. > > #3 I would like to hear your comments on what you think > I should do to prevent this from happening. should I vent > the ceiling or maybe put a lightbulb or heat lamp over the > engine. I don't like that idea myself. so if you have any > suggestions please let me know, I don't care if you live in > hawk holler alabama or or the north pole, your opinion or > vote counts, or does it, hehehe. > > > thanks, > Gary r. voigt > firestar kxp 0 hrs-----still waiting for a couple more > inches for my 3 mile runway and may use every foot of it. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: trailer condensation
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Gary, I am in the process of getting my steel trailer foamed. I used painted roof steel (24 guage I believe) for the covering on my trailer. It really did not sweat, even though it did not have any ventilation at all. A friend made his trailer out of aluminum and his just pours the water off it. Even though mine does not sweat, the foam will improve it both winter and summer. They tell me that 1/2 of foam will stop the sweats. Supposed to be done tomorrow. Will let you know what it cost. And yes the water will raise hell with everything. Larry > Here in minnesota it has started to get cold, the firestar > has been in the trailer for about 1 month of fairly cold > weather and when I opened the trailer for the first time in > over a month the engine was covered in ice crystals and the > outside of the gas was also iced-up. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
You said it, John. Absolutely ! ! ! I had about 2 hrs total hard IFR time, about 5 yrs ago, with 2 different instructors, in Washington state. After the 1st few seconds.............total disorientation. The biggest & most amazing thing I found was............"But I just looked at that thing, how'd it get so far off so fast".............without feeling anything, and bringing it back took a mighty correction. Don't fool with it ! ! ! I flew into what I thought was a strip of haze near Sequim, Wa., in the same time period, and it turned out to be a fog bank. After about 10 sec. or so, ( in an IFR equipped C-172 ) I started a standard rate turn to make a 180 back out. Watching VERY carefully, it probably took less than 2 minutes to come around and back to clear air. Seemed like forever, and I was wound up tighter than a $2.00 watch, cause I KNEW what trouble I was in. If you want a real education, go to a flight school, and buy an hour on the simulator with an instructor. You'll get respect in a hurry. Wiser Lar. Palm Springs, CA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings > > level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 1/4" > > hole? > > > > Shack > > Shack and Gang: > > Turn and Bank tells you degree of bank and rate of turn. > Aircraft Spruce or any aviation vendor has them available in > 12/24V and vacumn driven. They are expensive in Acft > Spruce. Recommend checking out some aircraft instrument > overhaul facilities for pricing and availability. > > It is not an attitude indicator. Also something to remember > about attempting to fly in IFR conditions, or getting caught > in those conditions: Unless you have had proper training > and are current flying on the gauges (this is in a > instrument certified aircraft), your chances of survival are > extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further > reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but > not recommended. Twenty four years ago I was an Active Army > Rotary Wing Aviator with a Standard Instrument Ticket. I > have not flown instruments since June 1976. I would not > consider tackling any kind of IFR weather in any kind of > aircraft now. > > Take care, fly safe, > > john h > > PS: Check out the accident statistics for Alaska. Most > accidents in Alaska are contributed to weather. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
---------- > From: Ken Broste <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:26 PM > . " Some of you people really scare me." > > Perhaps somewhere I misread the original question, or failing that I am attritibuting the author of the original question with at least as much "intelligence" as I believe that I myself have. I assumed that the author wanted the particular instrument as a hedge, not so that he could practice IFR flying in his firestar. It seems to me to be like saying "because some one wants a ballistic chute he is going to practice arobatics". Words are either tools where we learn, or weapons where we intentionally hurt! Larry "can't we all just get along" Cottrell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
I think you're right, Larry. My feeling for the comments on this was of a concern from everyone who reponded, to try and help someone from making a potentially terrible mistake. Sure made a good thread, didn't it ?? Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > ---------- > > From: Ken Broste <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:26 PM > > > > . " Some of you people really scare me." > > > > > Perhaps somewhere I misread the original question, or failing that I am > attritibuting the author of the original question with at least as much > "intelligence" as I believe that I myself have. I assumed that the author > wanted the particular instrument as a hedge, not so that he could practice > IFR flying in his firestar. It seems to me to be like saying "because some > one wants a ballistic chute he is going to practice arobatics". > > Words are either tools where we learn, or weapons where we intentionally > hurt! > > Larry "can't we all just get along" Cottrell > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system. I would like > to have some comments on this thing to help me decide. Thanks in advance In four words...."You won't be sorry." I'd like to know what negatives you've heard? I really like my unit, saves space, is accurate, never failed, easy to read, etc....... J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
In a message dated 12/3/00 10:54:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, lcottrel(at)kfalls.net writes: << " Some of you people really scare me." > > Perhaps somewhere I misread the original question, or failing that I am attritibuting the author of the original question with at least as much "intelligence" as I believe that I myself have. I assumed that the author wanted the particular instrument as a hedge, not so that he could practice IFR flying in his firestar. It seems to me to be like saying "because some one wants a ballistic chute he is going to practice arobatics". Words are either tools where we learn, or weapons where we intentionally hurt! Larry "can't we all just get along" Cottrell >> I believe I was the original author, & no, I don't "intend" to fly in IFR conditions. I do intend to get some tools to help me if I do in-advertently get into those conditions again. Yeah, I have read the "178 second " thing several times. I have seen a 30 minute video on the subject. I studied the long thread about the Kennedy accident. we've hanger talked for hours about the subject. I've been told that a big gold chain, held between the thumb & forefinger will do the job. Also, a cup of coffee. A "slip indicator". A boat compass.......By way of a small knowledge of physics, I recognize instantly that some of these may not work!! I intend to find an instrument that, with some training, just might save my bacon if I somehow get into a fog bank. I'm trying to find out from the list what that instument should be, will it fit my panel, & where do I find one I can afford?. Howard "Shack" Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
In a message dated 12/3/00 11:10:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlbaker(at)telepath.com writes: << > I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system. I would like > to have some comments on this thing to help me decide. Thanks in advance >> The biggest "con" I have ever heard against the EIS is that if it fails you've lost most of your instruments [I would still have my ASI & Compass]. I can fly my plane safely without any instruments- can't everyone? Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Needle, Ball, & A.S.
I have been watching the thread on flying into inadvertent IFR with interest. I am removing the fuel pressure gauge from my MKIII, and have been thinking of getting a needle & ball to fill the hole. The reason for doing this is because on my trip back from New Kolb this last September, I was at 7500' over a solid deck that was pretty thick. Droning along that way for 100 miles gave me lots of time to ponder how well I could maintain a heading and keep the wings level with just the GPS and the whisky compass if the 532 laid down and died on me. Or to put it another way, how long could I fool around with the airplane until I had to go ahead and fire the chute... I think I am in the market for a 2 1/4" needle and ball. It would at least give me something to do while gliding quietly down through the murk...waiting to pull the little red handle... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
Larry..again I like your comments! I am IFR rated but have only flown under the hood for years. I don't trust my aircraft with no radar, and it always bothers me that other planes may be in the area. I do like to be rated for letting down through the clouds though when coming in from Bend to Eugene over the mountains. No problems and many holes in my worst trip, but I was checking instruments. I second everyone comments on not attempting to fly IFR until and unless you are licensed. White knuckles and cold sweats never were a thrill to me. Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 7:47 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > You said it, John. Absolutely ! ! ! I had about 2 hrs total hard IFR time, > about 5 yrs ago, with 2 different instructors, in Washington state. After > the 1st few seconds.............total disorientation. The biggest & most > amazing thing I found was............"But I just looked at that thing, how'd > it get so far off so fast".............without feeling anything, and > bringing it back took a mighty correction. Don't fool with it ! ! ! I flew > into what I thought was a strip of haze near Sequim, Wa., in the same time > period, and it turned out to be a fog bank. After about 10 sec. or so, in > an IFR equipped C-172 ) I started a standard rate turn to make a 180 back > out. Watching VERY carefully, it probably took less than 2 minutes to come > around and back to clear air. Seemed like forever, and I was wound up > tighter than a $2.00 watch, cause I KNEW what trouble I was in. If you > want a real education, go to a flight school, and buy an hour on the > simulator with an instructor. You'll get respect in a hurry. > Wiser Lar. Palm Springs, CA. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 11:07 AM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > > > > > In other words, the T&B will help me keep my wings > > > level [in roll]?? And, if so, does anyone make one that will fit in a 2 > 1/4" > > > hole? > > > > > > Shack > > > > Shack and Gang: > > > > Turn and Bank tells you degree of bank and rate of turn. > > Aircraft Spruce or any aviation vendor has them available in > > 12/24V and vacumn driven. They are expensive in Acft > > Spruce. Recommend checking out some aircraft instrument > > overhaul facilities for pricing and availability. > > > > It is not an attitude indicator. Also something to remember > > about attempting to fly in IFR conditions, or getting caught > > in those conditions: Unless you have had proper training > > and are current flying on the gauges (this is in a > > instrument certified aircraft), your chances of survival are > > extremely slim. Aircraft, especially UL aircraft, further > > reduce the survival rate. Not saying you can not do it, but > > not recommended. Twenty four years ago I was an Active Army > > Rotary Wing Aviator with a Standard Instrument Ticket. I > > have not flown instruments since June 1976. I would not > > consider tackling any kind of IFR weather in any kind of > > aircraft now. > > > > Take care, fly safe, > > > > john h > > > > PS: Check out the accident statistics for Alaska. Most > > accidents in Alaska are contributed to weather. > > > > > > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 03, 2000
That was my original interpretation also guys.... good comment! Julian Warren, Eugene, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > > ---------- > > From: Ken Broste <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 6:26 PM > > > > . " Some of you people really scare me." > > > > > Perhaps somewhere I misread the original question, or failing that I am > attritibuting the author of the original question with at least as much > "intelligence" as I believe that I myself have. I assumed that the author > wanted the particular instrument as a hedge, not so that he could practice > IFR flying in his firestar. It seems to me to be like saying "because some > one wants a ballistic chute he is going to practice arobatics". > > Words are either tools where we learn, or weapons where we intentionally > hurt! > > Larry "can't we all just get along" Cottrell > > Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dixieshack(at)webtv.net (orie shackelford)
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Subject: Re: whiskey compass use.
Before we get too involved with the whiskey compass and its uses I probably should make my initial comment a little clearer. In the event of unexpected IMC whether smoke fog over water cloud or whatever, the whiskey compass can aid you in staying wngs level and pitch level by observing the ball in the kerosene. Even in an "ever tightening" co-ordinated turn the ball will be turning. Wings level would be shown by the attitude of the ball in the window as would pitch. I did not intend to suggest that anyone use the liquid compass intentionally as a substitute only as an emergency substitute. I was caught in some early morning fog that was raising from a wooded area in central Florida and could see that it was localized. I was flying a 7AC at the time with the door off. Upon entering the fog I first found it to be heavier than expected. I then lost all sense of time, altitude, attitude and which way was up. My father-in-law had mentioned the liquid compass thing years earlier and I thought of that although I had a T&B idicator. I watched that little "level" suspended in front of me and it served its purpose in two ways. Gave me a focus for my fright and by keeping the ball on a constant heading and in the same unmoving position in the housing kept me from getting into anything near an unusual attitude. My first and only with spatial disorientation. I don't think the FS and I will be getting into that stuff. I'm tooo Chicken. Hillbilly Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Ice flying
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Ralph has hot blood--he will be sweating when the others will still be cold. I flew twicw already off skis and twice off wheels because the snow was inconsistent. I wear long underwear, 2 socks, insulated boots, under shirt, long sleeve shirt, sweat shirt, insulated jacket, snowmobile suit, head / warmer, helmet liner, snowmobile helmet, cotton gloves, snowmobile mittens adn I do get cold so you fly for 30-60 minutes and then take a break. I get cold but never to the point of frostbite. I get stir crazy if I don't fly periodically. This Saturday it was 11 degrees at 8 AM but it was clear and light wind 2-4 mph from the south. The was no road spray so my Firestar did not get dirty on the 13 mile trip to the airfield. I usually get fully dressed before set up because it helps me get good and warm first. The little pins and hardware is harder to work in the cold air but it warmed up to about 28 degrees by noon when I flew. One must also be careful setting up in snow--a dropped pin can be lost quickly so I carry spares. John Glynn in a GT400 took off just as I was rolling up and by the time he returned I was ready for engine start. We agreed to make a circuit between Benson Airport John Peltons (Our Minnesota Ultralight Assc President) Place and Northern Lights Airpark. After a long warm up and normal taxi and take off we headed North. I had to slow up to 4600-4800, 55 mph to stay even with the GT400 (503 engine), we saw two other ultralights flying near the frozen lakes on the way. We landed at Benson, a 1200 foot grass runway, about 25 minutes later. John said he was cruising at 5100 rpm and 55 mph. We saw 2 vintage Cessnas come in for landings and talked to 2 glider pilots on the ground. We then took off for John Peltons--John later said he was going to push his throttle a little higher--6100 rpm to get more than 65 mph. 65 mph means 5200 rpm in my plane so we were cruising nicely. On the trip a Beech Twin came within 100 feet above John--they are fast and a Cessna 152 came from behind along side me and then peeled off (show off). John could not land--I learned later his throttle cable was frozen at 6100 rpm. The colder higher altitude (1200 agl) and the higer speed cause his cable to freeze with water turning to ice. John lead us back to home base at a good clip but we were going into the sun so there was a bit more warmth. I saw John continue to fly around the area while I set up for landing--John continued to fly around close to the ground. Later I learned he was still trying to get the throttle back when suddenly, in the warmer layer of air, the engine went to idle. He was at about 200 feet agl but kept control and after making sure it was working right came in for his landing. The trip was 1.2 hours and I used 2.5 gallons of fuel--John used almost 5 gallons. As I was taxing back to my trailer I went trough some deep snow on a little incline and tipped it on its nose. I had to get out push the plane through the snow and thenget back in to taxi back. The air was a little bumpy and there was alot of air traffic but it was clear and the snow on the ground was pretty and the plane flew great. I love this plane--lots of performance and good clean fun. Dale Seitzer ----- Original Message ----- From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 11:58 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ice flying Hey Ralph, Sounds like fun but my blood is much too thin for that kind of flying, hell when it gets below 40 degrees I put on my thermal undies..... Geoff Thistlethwaite ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Ice flying
Date: Dec 04, 2000
I use a think called Baclava , $ 14.99, it is a thinner stretchy fabric over the top of the head and much thicke insulated fabricfrom nose level in front around the head--it may be too thick to wear under a head set -- it is designed to wear under full face helemts. The fabric extends down the front sides and back like the old dickys. Dale Seitzer Ralph, tell me about this "thermal head protector". The only place I get cold is the space between my scarf [around my neck] and my Comtronics helmet. Is it something you can wear with glasses? I need to find something that is open around the nose & mouth so my glasses don't fog from my breath. Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: David Leister <dleister(at)graftononline.net>
Subject: ALNOT for slingshot
Hi. Group: I work for the FAA at Cleveland Center. An ALNOT came out to all sectors on the lookout for a N97MS Slingshot experimental. I'll type it out just the way is came across the printer. W1 ALNOT N97MS TYPE SLINGSHOT EXPERIMENTAL DEPARTED WV29 AT 03 1900Z ROUTE AND DESTINATION UNKNOWN. ANY INFORMATION CONTACT ZOB AMIC AT 440 774- 0426 ZOB CP/040119. Usually we see a message a little later stating they found the aircraft at some airport. But this time I never heard or seen a message saying that it was found. Does anybody know about this aircraft. Just curious. David Liester Mark III 912 Wellington, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Needle, Ball, & A.S.
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Richard, What instrument are you referring to? Mike H. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: Annamarie <vincentam(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: Disappearing Ultralightes
I think all the instruments and gadgets put on these light planes to make them safer will definitely do just that: they will be so heavy they won't be able to leave the ground. Light planes are not meant to be flown in marginal weather. Too many of us are letting them slowly evolve into G.A. planes. Light=Safety Listen to John Hauck, he didn't make it this far not knowing what he is talking about. Bill Vincent Firestar II Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula Michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: GEORGE ALEXANDER <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Ice flying
HShack(at)aol.com wrote: > > <<>> > Ralph, tell me about this "thermal head protector". The only place I get > cold is the space between my scarf [around my neck] and my Comtronics helmet. > Is it something you can wear with glasses? I need to find something that is > open around the nose & mouth so my glasses don't fog from my breath. > > Shack > FS I > SC Shack: I have had very good luck with stuff from Wear Guard ( http://www.wearguard.com ). As for the head covering I got what they call a "Micro Fleece Hood - Style 1972". Currently going for about $13. I wear it under a regular headset and a Comtronics helmet. I wear glasses and the oversized skydiver goggles. (Inexpensive, light, flexible and vents on the side to minimize fogging up.) The features I like about this hood are that it is fairly thin, but effective at keeping the wind off and the face opening is elastic enough that when really cold, I pull it up over the nose (no small task) and under the goggles. The material and weave wick the moisture to the outside. It is long enough to tuck the tail in my turtle neck. If not quite so cold that I don't mind a little wind in the face, I can drop the opening down below my chin or anyplace in between that I need. I have used others from camping stores, outdoor stores, etc... but picked this one up when I ordered other cold weather gear and have been satisfied with all of it. Good Luck! George Alexander http://gtalexander.home.att.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Herren" <wmdherren(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ALNOT for slingshot
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Database shows the aircraft as built by Michael S Miller Rt 2 Box 397f Albright WV 26519 Any Lister Know of this plane/pilot? >Subject: Kolb-List: ALNOT for slingshot >Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:07:18 -0500 > > >Hi. Group: > > I work for the FAA at Cleveland Center. An ALNOT came out to all >sectors on the lookout for a N97MS >Slingshot experimental. I'll type it out just the way is came across the >printer. > >W1 ALNOT N97MS TYPE SLINGSHOT EXPERIMENTAL DEPARTED WV29 AT 03 >1900Z > ROUTE AND DESTINATION UNKNOWN. ANY INFORMATION CONTACT ZOB AMIC AT >440 774- 0426 ZOB CP/040119. > > >Does anybody know about this aircraft. Just curious. > >David Liester >Mark III 912 >Wellington, OH > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bruzan3(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Ice flying
Hi Kolbers, I tried the skis on my FSII sunday and what a trip! I never considered myself a cold weather person but this could change me for good. We took off in around 5 inches off snow,went about 20 miles and landed at Grob field (wisc) what a breathtaking sight! The whole airfield was pure white with only deer tracks across it.OAT on the ground was 30 and at altitude 26 (compliments of my EIS OAT option love that EIS) I used aftermarket snowmobile racing skis,plastic,light and strong. As much as I would love to be flying over the mountains and desert with Will U. and Dave Rains (great pics) the snow flying is really something to behold.As soon as the lakes freeze up i hope to do some lake skimmimg like Ralph B. and John Jung. I would strongly urge everyone on this list to install some skis immediately,find some snow and play in the snow! Enjoy, John Bruzan FSII EIS BRS 503 SCDI Chicago flying out of Aeropark,wisc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Needle, Ball, & A.S.
I guess I should have said "Turn and Bank." The old mantra of "Needle, Ball, and Airspeed" was the thing we were taught for partial panel in IMC. If you have an old fashioned turn and bank indicator (needle and ball), and an airspeed indicator, you can maintain straight and level flight in IMC. Or a controlled descent, wings level, straight ahead. Years ago, the old style turn and bank indicators were driven by a venturi hung on the side of the airplane. Needed no electric system. Worked when nothing else did. I still want one. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Richard, What instrument are you referring to? >Mike H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Needle, Ball, & A.S.
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Your money would be better spent getting some training flying under the hood. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:57 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Needle, Ball, & A.S. > > I have been watching the thread on flying into inadvertent IFR with interest. > I am removing the fuel pressure gauge from my MKIII, and have been > thinking of getting a needle & ball to fill the hole. > The reason for doing this is because on my trip back from New Kolb > this last September, I was at 7500' over a solid deck that was pretty thick. > Droning along that way for 100 miles gave me lots of time to ponder how > well I could maintain a heading and keep the wings level with just the > GPS and the whisky compass if the 532 laid down and died on me. > Or to put it another way, how long could I fool around with the airplane until > I had to go ahead and fire the chute... > I think I am in the market for a 2 1/4" needle and ball. It would at least > give > me something to do while gliding quietly down through the murk...waiting > to pull the little red handle... > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 04, 2000
I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. If this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I missing something? ----- Original Message ----- From: <HShack(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > In a message dated 12/3/00 11:10:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jlbaker(at)telepath.com writes: > > << > I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system. I would like > > to have some comments on this thing to help me decide. Thanks in advance > >> > > The biggest "con" I have ever heard against the EIS is that if it fails > you've lost most of your instruments [I would still have my ASI & Compass]. > I can fly my plane safely without any instruments- can't everyone? > > Shack > FS I > SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 04, 2000
I will go to great lengths to avoid even the possibility of coming close to IMC even to the point of landing in a field and waiting it out. If you want to prepare yourself for this possibility and blaze your way through the milk, please get some training under the hood from an instructor. It will be money well spent. It is not as easy as it sounds. ----- Original Message ----- From: <HShack(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > In a message dated 12/3/00 10:54:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > lcottrel(at)kfalls.net writes: > > << " Some of you people really scare me." > > > > > Perhaps somewhere I misread the original question, or failing that I am > attritibuting the author of the original question with at least as much > "intelligence" as I believe that I myself have. I assumed that the author > wanted the particular instrument as a hedge, not so that he could practice > IFR flying in his firestar. It seems to me to be like saying "because some > one wants a ballistic chute he is going to practice arobatics". > > Words are either tools where we learn, or weapons where we intentionally > hurt! > > Larry "can't we all just get along" Cottrell >> > > I believe I was the original author, & no, I don't "intend" to fly in IFR > conditions. I do intend to get some tools to help me if I do in-advertently > get into those conditions again. > > Yeah, I have read the "178 second " thing several times. I have seen a 30 > minute video on the subject. I studied the long thread about the Kennedy > accident. we've hanger talked for hours about the subject. I've been told > that a big gold chain, held between the thumb & forefinger will do the job. > Also, a cup of coffee. A "slip indicator". A boat compass.......By way of a > small knowledge of physics, I recognize instantly that some of these may not > work!! > > I intend to find an instrument that, with some training, just might save my > bacon if I somehow get into a fog bank. I'm trying to find out from the list > what that instument should be, will it fit my panel, & where do I find one I > can afford?. > > Howard "Shack" Shackleford > FS I > SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ice flying
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Well then, come on, John...............how 'bout some pics of your ice and snow ( brrrr ) flying ?? You're not gonna let Will & Dave have all the fun are ya ?? I dunno - sounds neat & fun alright, but I paid my dues snowcatting in Northern Idaho 20 yrs. ago. Fun, you bet, but migawd we got cold. With lotsa beer, a snort or 3 of Old Loudmouth, a burning tire to home in on, and a midnight party out in the 20 below night, we survived, but I......don't......think.......that all.......would.......be.......the........best........idea.........here..... ....! ! ! Sober ( now ) Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bruzan3(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Ice flying > > Hi Kolbers, > I tried the skis on my FSII sunday and what a trip! I never considered myself > a cold weather person but this could change me for good. We took off in > around 5 inches off snow,went about 20 miles and landed at Grob field (wisc) > what a breathtaking sight! The whole airfield was pure white with only deer > tracks across it.OAT on the ground was 30 and at altitude 26 (compliments of > my EIS OAT option love that EIS) I used aftermarket snowmobile racing > skis,plastic,light and strong. As much as I would love to be flying over the > mountains and desert with Will U. and Dave Rains (great pics) the snow flying > is really something to behold.As soon as the lakes freeze up i hope to do > some lake skimmimg like Ralph B. and John Jung. I would strongly urge > everyone on this list to install some skis immediately,find some snow and > play in the snow! > Enjoy, > John Bruzan FSII EIS BRS 503 SCDI Chicago flying out of Aeropark,wisc > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Needle, Ball, & A.S.
Date: Dec 04, 2000
A/C Spruce shows a 2 1/4" turn & bank - for $639.00 - but no small AI. Tried just now to access www.falcongauge.com , but was told I'm not authorized to go there. Hmmmm............wonder why they advertise it in KitPlanes, then ?? Good Luck. Big Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:43 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Needle, Ball, & A.S. > > I guess I should have said "Turn and Bank." > The old mantra of "Needle, Ball, and Airspeed" was the thing > we were taught for partial panel in IMC. If you have an old ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 04, 2000
EIS is a dandy toy, and does it all, quite well. Kris Henkel, in 1000 Palms has finished his Tornado, and has an EIS installed, and I gotta admit, it's a fine looking outfit. Also, just as in a stock Mk III or in a FireStar, gauges just won't fit. Me ?? I just think a panel full of gauges looks sexy as hell ! ! ! Logical ?? Naw, but I sure like my panel. Old Fashioned Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. If > this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight > instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Subject: Re: trailer condensation
Gary, My FS2 LIVES in a trailer but I have never seen condensation on it. It does get out of the trailer about 3 or 4 times each month, but how can you have any more moisture than the relative humidity when you seal it in?G.Aman FS2 in humid Ohio. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
In a message dated 12/4/00 9:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: << I will go to great lengths to avoid even the possibility of coming close to IMC even to the point of landing in a field and waiting it out. If you want to prepare yourself for this possibility and blaze your way through the milk, please get some training under the hood from an instructor. It will be money well spent. It is not as easy as it sounds. >> There is a remote possibility that after this long thread about IMC that I may actually come off as sounding dumb, but I'm going to enjoy it because I hate unexplained abbreviations! After all the dialog about it, I'm sure it must have something to do with IFR (now there I go) but I can not deduce what it might mean other than IMMACULATE CONCEPTION....and I'm not even Catholic. Could one of you funny talkers out there help me in my mire of total ignorance or maybe just let me continure to ferment and wallow further. GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Ken, If the EIS were to quit, what do you really need to get safely on the ground? For me it is just an airspeed indicator, and possibly a GPS. Since having an EIS, there is no going back. I have seen the light. : ) John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin Ken Broste wrote: > > I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. If > this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight > instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I missing > something? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2000
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: trailer condensation
Good question, all I know is I'am going to put in a vent and maybe some insulation. thanks, Gary r. voigt ZepRep251(at)aol.com wrote: > > Gary, My FS2 LIVES in a trailer but I have never seen condensation on it. It > does get out of the trailer about 3 or 4 times each month, but how can you > have any more moisture than the relative humidity when you seal it in?G.Aman > FS2 in humid Ohio. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 04, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > In a message dated 12/4/00 9:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: > > << I will go to great lengths to avoid even the possibility of coming close to > IMC even to the point of landing in a field and waiting it out. If you want > to prepare yourself for this possibility and blaze your way through the > milk, please get some training under the hood from an instructor. It will > be money well spent. It is not as easy as it sounds. >> > > > There is a remote possibility that after this long thread about IMC that I > may actually come off as sounding dumb, but I'm going to enjoy it because I > hate unexplained abbreviations! > GeoR38 > IMC = Instrument meteorological conditions (fancyspeak for IFR) Ed in JXN MkII/503 ============================================================ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "williams brett" <dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: IMC
Date: Dec 05, 2000
IMC means "Instrument Meterological Conditions". VMC means "Visual Meterological Conditions". These two abbreviations refer to the conditions of the atmosphere. IFR is of course "Instrument Flight Rules", which is the rules and regulations a pilot operates under during flight. IFR flight can occur under "IMC" or "VMC". In the Air Force we are required to file and fly IFR to the maximum extent possible. I usually am just a reader of the list. I fly/own 2 light aircraft one of which is a Firefly, and fly C-130's for the Air National Guard. I enjoy this list immensely and glean a lot of knowledge from the posts from you guys with a lot of technical, as well as, flying expertise in the Kolb aircraft. However, the discussions about inadvertent IMC have compelled me to post this on the list. I will be direct and to the point. If you enter IMC conditions in an aircraft with fully functional IFR instrumentation, but do not have the proper instrument training (and currency), you WILL NOT survive the encounter! Not probably, not maybe, YOU WILL NOT MAKE IT. Second if you have the proper training, and are current in flying IMC, but the aircraft is not properly equipped for IFR flight, again, you will not survive your encounter with IMC. Discussion should focus on, never getting close to IMC conditions in an improperly equipped aircraft, ie. most Kolbs that I am familar with. Needle, ball and airspeed, is difficult under the best of circumstances and is a emergency procedure. I guarantee, that if you are relying on some of the techniques I've read on this list to get yourself out of a "pinch" you will not survive. The NTSB (www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.htm) accident website contains all aviation accidents in the US since the early 80's. Take any month and look for a C-150 or 172 or PA-anything and look at fatal accidents and a large majority of these are the result of a private or student pilot entering IMC. Read the reports and hopefully it will take away any illusions about theories or techniqhes of flying into weather without: 1) proper training 2) instrument proficiency and currency 3) a properly equipped aircraft ( fully functional attitude indicator, pitot-static instruments, etc.) I know this is strong language, but felt that this is necessary to post on this list. Please focus on never putting yourself into a position of ever getting close to IMC. Please take this in the context and spirit that it is intended. Please continue to fly safe and I look forward to meeting you guys. I am going to fly my Acro Sport to Lakeland this year and camp with my father and buddies from the airport I hang out at. Sincerely Brett Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
If the EIS goes tango uniform(military lingo for quits), so what. The engine will still run and the airplane will still fly. I installed the EIS because I have a bad habit of enjoying the scenery and not giving the instruments my full attention. But when that big red light comes on my attention is drawn back to the instrument panel. One time my EIS was reading a fuel flow of 10.5 GPH. Need less to say the red light came on in less then an hour warning me of low fuel. I knew I had more fuel then what the EIS was reading because Dave flew behind me and checked the fuel tanks. The erroneous reading was because I had programed the EIS for a 4 stroke not a 2 stroke engine. Without the EIS It would be impossible to mount two CHTs, two EGTs gages, an altimeter, vertical speed indicator, fuel flow indicator, RPM, Outside air temperature, Hobbs meter and a fuel gage onto the FireStar's limited panel space plus a compass & airspeed indicator. http://members.aol.com/guillermou/232.jpg The only reason I could think of not wanting to "put all your eggs in one basket" is if you built an airplane to fly in IFR weather, then you would use the EIS as a back up. Hope this helps you understand a little bit better, Will Uribe El Paso, TX VFR only FireStar II but working in Arlington, TX for 3 weeks. In a message dated 12/4/00 9:53:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: > I cannot understand why so mshowing any pilots are gung ho on the EIS > displays. If > this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight > instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I missing > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 05, 2000
You know, my eyes just aint what they used to be--- Dave -----Original Message----- From: WillUribe(at)aol.com <WillUribe(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > >If the EIS goes tango uniform(military lingo for quits), so what. The engine >will still run and the airplane will still fly. snip >One time my EIS was reading a fuel flow of 10.5 GPH. Need less to say the >red light came on in less then an hour warning me of low fuel. I knew I had >more fuel then what the EIS was reading because Dave flew behind me and >checked the fuel tanks. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 05, 2000
I agree with you. I prefer good analog gauges. A number on a screen doesn't provide you with any visual reference to the number. OK I guess if your real smart, but I don't want to think about it. A good GPS provides much of the information needed and augments the gauges. For me, a better system. Dave Rains FireStar 2 El Paso (made the Wilcox fly-in) -----Original Message----- From: larrybiglar <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > >EIS is a dandy toy, and does it all, quite well. Kris Henkel, in 1000 Palms >has finished his Tornado, and has an EIS installed, and I gotta admit, it's >a fine looking outfit. Also, just as in a stock Mk III or in a FireStar, >gauges just won't fit. Me ?? I just think a panel full of gauges >looks sexy as hell ! ! ! Logical ?? Naw, but I sure like my panel. >Old Fashioned Lar. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:50 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > >> >> I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. >If >> this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight >> instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: IMC
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Brett, THANK YOU!!!!!!!! for the explanation and being so blunt. I am new at this game and very much appreciate the advice. Mike H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net>
Subject: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
Date: Dec 05, 2000
This may have been beaten to death in the past. I know that John H flies from the right seat in order to compensate for the engine torque. My Mark-3 is setup to be flown from the left seat (heel brakes). I have to hold a pretty hard right aileron to maintain level flight. Other than installing a cockpit adjustable trim control, has anyone devised a clever way to deal with this? It would have to be cockpit adjustable to compensate for passengers of various weights. Thanks, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: MIKE HOUSEWERT <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 5:53 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: IMC > > Brett, > THANK YOU!!!!!!!! for the explanation and being so blunt. I am new at this > game and very much appreciate the advice. > > Mike H. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
Check out the picture and explanation at http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm It is not cockpit adjustable, it is ground adjustable. When you add or subtract a passenger, you always do it on the ground, (At least I hope you do!) so a ground adjustable tab is OK. KISS is good. If the page is insufficient, I can give more details off list. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >This may have been beaten to death in the past. > >I know that John H flies from the right seat in order to compensate for the >engine torque. My Mark-3 is setup to be flown from the left seat (heel >brakes). I have to hold a pretty hard right aileron to maintain level >flight. Other than installing a cockpit adjustable trim control, has anyone >devised a clever way to deal with this? It would have to be cockpit >adjustable to compensate for passengers of various weights. > >Thanks, > >Ron > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> I prefer good analog gauges. > A good GPS provides > much of the information needed and augments the gauges. > Dave Rains Mornin Dave and Gang: I like analog also. Probably, because that is all I have ever used. My flying was over in the Army about the time the Black Hawks came on line. Instrument panels started changing with them. Didn't they have "thermometer" type gauges? I puchase my gauges, other than ASI, Alt, VSI, anywhere they are good quality and cheaper. I never have liked Westach. Proved unreliable most of the time. Maybe they have improved them in the last ten years since I had them mounted in the Firestar. Most of my engine gauges are marine. For the 912 and 912S, gauges with greater ranges than normal (cyl head temp and oil temp to 300F) can be found reasonably priced at speed shops, Auto Zone, Car Quest, Summit Racing, etc. I have gauges with well over 1400 hours on them. Marine tachs for 12 pole alternators work great in 503's and 582's. Cost $50 to $60. Most now have a rotary switch on the back to dial in a multitude of different pole alternator combinations. Flight instruments can be purchased from aircraft instrument overhaul facilities. Find your self some old "cores". They used to give 25 or 30 dollars core credit. > A good GPS provides > much of the information needed and augments the gauges. How about expanding on this a little. About all I can get out of my GPS that augments gauges is heading (mag compass). Altitude is not reliable. Scratching my head, but that is all I can think of now. What else? :-) My Firestar panel had the following instruments and gauges: ASI Altimeter "G" Meter Hobbs (hr mtr) Mag Compass Slip/Skid Tach Combination CHT/EGT My MK III has: "G" Meter ASI Tach Altimeter VSI Hour Meter Oil Pressure Oil Temp Cyl Head Temp Volt meter Mag Compass All swithches and circuit breakers Mag switch Having not flown the airplane since 1 Jul 00, it is difficult to remember all the stuff. I fly the EIS in the factory Sling Shot, but not comfortable with it. Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with it, just not to my personal liking. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
> I know that John H flies from the right seat in order to compensate for the > engine torque. Other than installing a cockpit adjustable trim control, has anyone > devised a clever way to deal with this? It would have to be cockpit > adjustable to compensate for passengers of various weights. > > Thanks, > > Ron Ron and Gang: That was one of the reasons I fly from right seat. The primary reason was to take advantage of dual control sticks and single throttle in normal center location. I started out with 582, prop turns clockwise, so sitting in right seat helped counteract torque effect. I learned from flying the old factory MK III "Fat Albert", that flying left seat with 582 required a lot of right stick pressure to maintain level flight. Then I installed 912, turns counterclockwise. Ugh! Figured I would have a problem with left roll, but flt test indicated no problem.. Pulled the 912 out and replaced it with 912S. Oops! Now I have a tendency to roll left. Not much, but enough to make it difficult to stay on course. Solved that with a piece of bungee cord anchored with a loop around the right side of dual control mount on one end and a double rapped loop around the control stick. Both loops are secured with 1/2" SS hose clamps. Makes it quick and easy to make initial installation adjustment, which is neutral when the loop is slipped to the bottom of the stick. I increase right roll trim by sliding the loop up the stick. Only takes a little to do the job. No sweat! Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: IMC
Brett, Excellent post. I hope that we hear more from you. John Jung williams brett wrote: > > IMC means "Instrument Meterological Conditions". VMC means "Visual > Meterological Conditions". These two abbreviations refer to the conditions > of the atmosphere. IFR is of course "Instrument Flight Rules", which is the > rules and regulations a pilot operates under during flight. IFR flight can > occur under "IMC" or "VMC". In the Air Force we are required to file and > fly IFR to the maximum extent possible. > I usually am just a reader of the list. I fly/own 2 light aircraft one > of which is a Firefly, and fly C-130's for the Air National Guard. > snip....... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
Hi Gang: My last msg read: Solved that with a piece of bungee cord anchored with a loop around the right side of dual control mount on one end and a double rapped loop around the control stick. Both loops are secured with 1/2" SS hose clamps. Should have read: Solved that with a piece of bungee cord anchored with a loop around the right side of the dual control mount on one end and a double wrapped loop around the control stick. Both loops are secured with 1/4" SS hose clamps. So solly, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ALLENB007(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Subject: Re: IMC
Good post big guy---HOpe to see you soon at anson co. allen bellamy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
Date: Dec 05, 2000
This is the information I was looking for. Is there perhaps a picture on-line showing the arrangement? I'm not too creative, and would like to get it right the first time. I'm sending this directly to you so that everyone on the list won't know how dumb I am. Catcha later, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark-3 aileron trim ? > > > > I know that John H flies from the right seat in order to compensate for the > > engine torque. Other than installing a cockpit adjustable trim control, has anyone > > devised a clever way to deal with this? It would have to be cockpit > > adjustable to compensate for passengers of various weights. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron > > Ron and Gang: > > That was one of the reasons I fly from right seat. The > primary reason was to take advantage of dual control sticks > and single throttle in normal center location. I started > out with 582, prop turns clockwise, so sitting in right seat > helped counteract torque effect. I learned from flying the > old factory MK III "Fat Albert", that flying left seat with > 582 required a lot of right stick pressure to maintain level > flight. Then I installed 912, turns counterclockwise. > Ugh! Figured I would have a problem with left roll, but flt > test indicated no problem.. Pulled the 912 out and replaced > it with 912S. Oops! Now I have a tendency to roll left. > Not much, but enough to make it difficult to stay on > course. Solved that with a piece of bungee cord anchored > with a loop around the right side of dual control mount on > one end and a double rapped loop around the control stick. > Both loops are secured with 1/2" SS hose clamps. Makes it > quick and easy to make initial installation adjustment, > which is neutral when the loop is slipped to the bottom of > the stick. I increase right roll trim by sliding the loop > up the stick. Only takes a little to do the job. No sweat! > > Take care, > > john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Ron, Your comment went to everyone including me. I feel the same way you do because I am just getting into this. I was hoping someone would give some definition to all of these letters, and it happened without me asking. But now everyone has read my email and know that I too am very dumb about allot of these things. Don't feel you are the Lone Ranger. Mike H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert" <robertsjunk(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: eis
Date: Dec 05, 2000
****** ...Without the EIS It would be impossible to mount two CHTs, two EGTs gages, an altimeter, vertical speed indicator, fuel flow indicator, RPM, Outside air temperature, Hobbs meter and a fuel gage onto the FireStar's limited panel space plus a compass & airspeed indicator... ****** OK, lets see here, I'll be installing a two-stoke with pull start... From the Wicks catalog: $80 - 2" dual CHT with senders $85 - 2" dual EGT with senders $115 - 3" altimeter 0-10,000 ft $200 - 2" VSI $60 - 2" tachometer $50 - OAT $30 - Hobbs fuel flow - n/a at Wicks fuel gage - turn around and look at the tank. (fuel gages are computer calculated by the EIS) $120 - 3" airspeed $10 - compass $750 total with a crowded panel. You could spend more for smaller gages or omit some gages to spend less. From the Kolb website: $804 - EIS (not including wiring but I didn't include it above either) $10 - compass $814 total with a simple panel. Although I could spend up to $1,400 total with a four-stroke and electric start. This is a estimation as I have not yet built my panel. Does this accurately compare with the actual costs? Robert Haines SlingShot Murphysboro, IL (I've moved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
> I'm sending this directly to you so that everyone on the list won't know how > dumb I am. > > Catcha later, > > Ron Ron: No such thing as a dumb question..................well, most of them aren't dumb. hehehe :-) Since you sent this to the List I will respond to the List. I used some bungee cord someone had given me a long time ago. I think it is about 3/8 or 7/16 inch in diameter. Simply made a loop around a piece of existing tubing in the dual control system, or somewhere on the right of the control stick position, then locked the loop in place with a 1/4 inch wide SS hose clamp. Took the other end of the bungee and made two wraps around the base of the control stick, pulling the bungee tight enough to take out the slack, but also keep it in the neutral position. Secured that loop with a 1/4 inch wide SS hose clamp. Now, to pick up the left wing and take pressure off the stick, I simply slide the double loop up the stick far enough to accomplish the desired amount of forced trim. If I need to readjust my initial setting, loosen the hose clamp and shorten or lenthen the bungee as required to get its initial adjustment correct. After I was satisfied it was like I wanted it, I cut some heat shrink tubing about an inch long and shrunk it on each end of the bungee. If you don't finish the end of the bungee, it will come apart. Sorry, I do not have any pics. When I get rich I will have a nice digital camera. Then I will have the capability to show you what I am talking about. Take care, ] john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
http://members.aol.com/firestartwo/gps2.jpg http://members.aol.com/n8754k/larry.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Instruments [again].
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Instrument meteorological conditions ----- Original Message ----- From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Instruments [again]. > > In a message dated 12/4/00 9:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: > > << I will go to great lengths to avoid even the possibility of coming close to > IMC even to the point of landing in a field and waiting it out. If you want > to prepare yourself for this possibility and blaze your way through the > milk, please get some training under the hood from an instructor. It will > be money well spent. It is not as easy as it sounds. >> > > > There is a remote possibility that after this long thread about IMC that I > may actually come off as sounding dumb, but I'm going to enjoy it because I > hate unexplained abbreviations! After all the dialog about it, I'm sure it > must have something to do with IFR (now there I go) but I can not deduce what > it might mean other than IMMACULATE CONCEPTION....and I'm not even Catholic. > Could one of you funny talkers out there help me in my mire of total > ignorance or maybe just let me continure to ferment and wallow further. > GeoR38 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: eis
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Well , I spent $504 dollars for an EIS without Altimeter. Add another $150 for the Altimeter function , and your $120 separate Airspeed and your up to $774. Which is very comparable to your crowded panel and mine will flash an idiot light at me for all kind of important reasons...and it is EXTREMELY accurate (Have you tried to read the little needle on a 2" EGT scale from that panel down there below your knees?) And are the gauges that you are quoting "temperature compensated" (That thread was run long and hard a while back) The cheapest "temp compensated" EGT (or pyrometers) that I know of are the Micro-1000's and the dual egt is $95 bucks with no probes. So make sure your comparing apples to apples when you compare prices. Anyway , to each his own...You make your decision and pay your money. The "eggs in one basket" thing is an issue on a IFR bird , but on a knock around the patch VFR plane? Naaaaaaw , The engine will keep running and forward speed still makes the wings fly , so that's a non-issue. America is great...everybody can have an opinion....WAIT , I WANT A RECOUNT ON THAT!!! ;<) Jeremy P.S. The price I quoted was for all probes and a pre-wired harness. And (Sorry Norm) it didn't come from TNK. I won't even mention the type of UL that its going on...I'd get laughed off this list. And any listers that know (Ted Cowan...) keep QUIET! ****** ...Without the EIS It would be impossible to mount two CHTs, two EGTs gages, an altimeter, vertical speed indicator, fuel flow indicator, RPM, Outside air temperature, Hobbs meter and a fuel gage onto the FireStar's limited panel space plus a compass & airspeed indicator... ****** OK, lets see here, I'll be installing a two-stoke with pull start... From the Wicks catalog: $80 - 2" dual CHT with senders $85 - 2" dual EGT with senders $115 - 3" altimeter 0-10,000 ft $200 - 2" VSI $60 - 2" tachometer $50 - OAT $30 - Hobbs fuel flow - n/a at Wicks fuel gage - turn around and look at the tank. (fuel gages are computer calculated by the EIS) $120 - 3" airspeed $10 - compass $750 total with a crowded panel. You could spend more for smaller gages or omit some gages to spend less. From the Kolb website: $804 - EIS (not including wiring but I didn't include it above either) $10 - compass $814 total with a simple panel. Although I could spend up to $1,400 total with a four-stroke and electric start. This is a estimation as I have not yet built my panel. Does this accurately compare with the actual costs? Robert Haines SlingShot Murphysboro, IL (I've moved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: IMC
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Good Post, Brett, I think it was needed and I hope it hit home to all our friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "williams brett" <dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:06 PM Subject: Kolb-List: IMC > > > IMC means "Instrument Meterological Conditions". VMC means "Visual > Meterological Conditions". These two abbreviations refer to the conditions > of the atmosphere. IFR is of course "Instrument Flight Rules", which is the > rules and regulations a pilot operates under during flight. IFR flight can > occur under "IMC" or "VMC". In the Air Force we are required to file and > fly IFR to the maximum extent possible. > I usually am just a reader of the list. I fly/own 2 light aircraft one > of which is a Firefly, and fly C-130's for the Air National Guard. I enjoy > this list immensely and glean a lot of knowledge from the posts from you > guys with a lot of technical, as well as, flying expertise in the Kolb > aircraft. However, the discussions about inadvertent IMC have compelled me > to post this on the list. I will be direct and to the point. > If you enter IMC conditions in an aircraft with fully functional IFR > instrumentation, but do not have the proper instrument training (and > currency), you WILL NOT survive the encounter! Not probably, not maybe, YOU > WILL NOT MAKE IT. Second if you have the proper training, and are current > in flying IMC, but the aircraft is not properly equipped for IFR flight, > again, you will not survive your encounter with IMC. > Discussion should focus on, never getting close to IMC conditions in an > improperly equipped aircraft, ie. most Kolbs that I am familar with. > Needle, ball and airspeed, is difficult under the best of circumstances and > is a emergency procedure. I guarantee, that if you are relying on some of > the techniques I've read on this list to get yourself out of a "pinch" you > will not survive. > The NTSB (www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.htm) accident website contains > all aviation accidents in the US since the early 80's. Take any month and > look for a C-150 or 172 or PA-anything and look at fatal accidents and a > large majority of these are the result of a private or student pilot > entering IMC. Read the reports and hopefully it will take away any > illusions about theories or techniqhes of flying into weather without: 1) > proper training 2) instrument proficiency and currency 3) a properly > equipped aircraft ( fully functional attitude indicator, pitot-static > instruments, etc.) > I know this is strong language, but felt that this is necessary to post > on this list. Please focus on never putting yourself into a position of > ever getting close to IMC. Please take this in the context and spirit that > it is intended. Please continue to fly safe and I look forward to meeting > you guys. I am going to fly my Acro Sport to Lakeland this year and camp > with my father and buddies from the airport I hang out at. > > Sincerely Brett Williams > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Do they make gauges for ultralights that read out air speed in mach numbers? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > > I prefer good analog gauges. > > > A good GPS provides > > much of the information needed and augments the gauges. > > > Dave Rains > > Mornin Dave and Gang: > > I like analog also. Probably, because that is all I have > ever used. My flying was over in the Army about the time > the Black Hawks came on line. Instrument panels started > changing with them. Didn't they have "thermometer" type > gauges? > > I puchase my gauges, other than ASI, Alt, VSI, anywhere they > are good quality and cheaper. I never have liked Westach. > Proved unreliable most of the time. Maybe they have > improved them in the last ten years since I had them mounted > in the Firestar. Most of my engine gauges are marine. For > the 912 and 912S, gauges with greater ranges than normal > (cyl head temp and oil temp to 300F) can be found reasonably > priced at speed shops, Auto Zone, Car Quest, Summit Racing, > etc. I have gauges with well over 1400 hours on them. > Marine tachs for 12 pole alternators work great in 503's and > 582's. Cost $50 to $60. Most now have a rotary switch on > the back to dial in a multitude of different pole alternator > combinations. Flight instruments can be purchased from > aircraft instrument overhaul facilities. Find your self > some old "cores". They used to give 25 or 30 dollars core > credit. > > > A good GPS provides > > much of the information needed and augments the gauges. > > How about expanding on this a little. About all I can get > out of my GPS that augments gauges is heading (mag > compass). Altitude is not reliable. Scratching my head, > but that is all I can think of now. What else? :-) > > My Firestar panel had the following instruments and gauges: > > ASI > Altimeter > "G" Meter > Hobbs (hr mtr) > Mag Compass > Slip/Skid > Tach > Combination CHT/EGT > > My MK III has: > > "G" Meter > ASI > Tach > Altimeter > VSI > Hour Meter > Oil Pressure > Oil Temp > Cyl Head Temp > Volt meter > Mag Compass > All swithches and circuit breakers > Mag switch > > Having not flown the airplane since 1 Jul 00, it is > difficult to remember all the stuff. > > I fly the EIS in the factory Sling Shot, but not comfortable > with it. Don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with it, just > not to my personal liking. > > Take care, > > john h > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
For those you using needle oriented gages will find it really helpful to take the time to put red lines on the face of the gages showing the maximums allowed. I spent several hours cleaning the faces of the gages, carefully applying masking tape to define the redline then painting it on with bright red model airplane paint. Don't try fingernail polish many of them are translucent and don't give good definition. The pay off here is that with a quick glance you can spot an impending problem and that warning may give you a little planning time before things really start to go wrong. Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FL, FireFly 007, 447, Ivo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cox" <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 05, 2000
> > > > > I prefer good analog gauges. Me too. If I wanted to go with the "glass cockpit" look I would be building a Lanceair instead of a Firestar. Sam Cox ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> >http://members.aol.com/firestartwo/gps2.jpg > >http://members.aol.com/n8754k/larry.jpg Cute: Put it on the list. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2000
Subject: Re: IMC
In a message dated 12/5/00 1:08:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com writes: << I know this is strong language, but felt that this is necessary to post on this list. Please focus on never putting yourself into a position of ever getting close to IMC. Please take this in the context and spirit that it is intended. Please continue to fly safe and I look forward to meeting you guys. I am going to fly my Acro Sport to Lakeland this year and camp with my father and buddies from the airport I hang out at. Sincerely Brett Williams >> Hey! Brett, if this list has purpose, it can't get any more significant than your letter. I thought it was important enough to save permanently to my files for future reference right along side Possum's 178 second story. I think we are talking about flying without visual reference and discovering the absolute danger of it without the proper instrumentation and training and currency. When I first learned to fly gliders in El Paso ...actually New Mexico, Las Cruces, they always told me never to ride the thermals right up into the forming clouds. But they only said that it was due to the probable turbulence up there. After your thread, I have another possible reason never to follow the thermals into the clouds....I do try to fly the thermals even here in Ohio whenever possible even with my Firestar. The main difference is that you look for gaggles of birds instead of small forming clouds.. Thanks again for your response....it is a classic! GeoR38 Akron, Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 04, 2000
> I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. If > this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight > instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I missing > something? EIS is accurate and very reliable. the gauges that you can buy are very inaccurate without extensive setup and are very hard to read with any accuracy. EIS has a warning system that allows you to set limits then alerts you when the limits are reached with a large warning light. it is very easy to miss one of several little black vibrating needles that climbs up over 1600 deg. EGT for a few seconds when you pull the throttle or whatever. EIS is lighter then the gages, it is probably cheaper. it is smaller. it is easier to read. if it goes out you either already have an engine failure or you fly home and land without instruments, but the point is it doesn't go out. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> >> I cannot understand why so many pilots are gung ho on the EIS displays. >If >> this one system goes down you have lost all your engine and flight >> instrumentation. Why put all your eggs in one basket? Am I missing >> something? > >EIS is accurate and very reliable. if it goes out you either already have an >engine failure or you fly home and land without instruments, but the point >is it doesn't go out. You forgot to add: Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Wash colors separately. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. For recreational use only. No animals were injured or killed during the making of this production. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Please remain seated until the ride has come to a complete stop. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your canceled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Prices may vary in Alaska and Hawaii. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. For instructions in English press 1 now. Limited time offer, call now to ensure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. It only takes an hour a week. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Some shrinkage of garment may occur. Formatted to fit your TV screen. Use only in a well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flames. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins accepted. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Not intended for human consumption. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. Keep back five hundred feet. List at least two alternate dates. Open other end. First pull up, then pull down. Dear Mom, Send money. Call toll free number before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Se hablamos Espanol. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T. Do not fold, spindle or mutilate. Shirts and shoes required. No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. Package sold by weight, not volume. Your mileage may vary. Lane ends, merge left. This supersedes all previous notices. Emergency exit only. In God we Trust...all others pay cash. Edited for content. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Cox" <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Fw: My friend is gone
Date: Dec 06, 2000
FYI Fly safe guys. Sam Cox From: "dusty phillips" <iflyuls(at)westco.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:08 PM Subject: UL: My friend is gone > > I am sad to share with this group the passing of a fellow pilot and my dear friend Mike Miller, after two days of searching, his body was found among the wreckage of his Kolb Slingshot. I understand that most of you did not know Mike but I'm sure you know someone like him, always happy, a big smile to greet you and there to help you in anyway that he could. I am not sure if anything can be learned from this based on what is known at this time , what I can tell you is Mike was a PP with 20 years of flying and over 200 hrs. in this plane. he was found not more than 7 miles from the airport in a ravine, but the plane was so broke up that it would have been hard to see from the sky. A witness was finally found, he stated that Mike had made a couple of passes in to the ravine and on the way out of the second pass the engine sputter and than quit at which time the plane went nose first back in to the ravine. The witness thought nothing of it at the time because it looked like something Mike had done many times in that area. Please keep in mind that I'm a novice and these are my thoughts, the engine was the rock solid 912 and the first thought might have been water in the gas and a frozen fuel line? is carb icing a possible cause? Whatever the cause it seemed like fuel starvation and he had just filled up before he left according to the records. I don't in anyway want to start a flame war but one of the other pilots that had flown this plane said simply if it ever lost power it simply would not fly, its short wing span plus the fact it seemed a little tale heavy may have contributed to the crash. I believe Mike knew this and when the engine quit he pointed straight at the ground hoping to get enough air speed to flatten it out and than just let it stall into the trees. He must have never got enough speed to get it to fly because it hit the ground nose first and with all the trees around only managed to clip one limb. Please forgive this newbie's thoughts, they are solely my own and that's ok because maybe it was for me, my way of dealing. dusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 06, 2000
>> A good GPS provides >> much of the information needed and augments the gauges. > >How about expanding on this a little. About all I can get >out of my GPS that augments gauges is heading (mag >compass). Altitude is not reliable. Scratching my head, >but that is all I can think of now. What else? :-) > >Intertainment Dave Rains > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: My friend is gone
Group, I would like to offer my own ideas of what we might learn from this accident: 1) Accidents happen. If we fly we risk an accident. 2) Flyin low increases the risk. Our engines may not quit very often, but they do quit, and if you are low when it quits, you have big trouble. 3) It the engine quits, the stick must be put forward without hesitation, or you risk a stall. If you stall while you are low, you probably wont recover. I still fly low at times, but only over places that I could land, and I try to remember the increased risk and not do it too much. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin Sam Cox wrote: > > > I am sad to share with this group the passing of a fellow pilot and my > dear friend Mike Miller, after two days of searching, his body was found > among the wreckage of his Kolb Slingshot. I understand that most of you did > not know Mike but I'm sure you know someone like him, always happy, a big > smile to greet you and there to help you in anyway that he could. > > I am not sure if anything can be learned from this snip.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: GPS ?????
Date: Dec 06, 2000
I am going to buy a GPS for my Kolb and would like to read some comments regarding several different models, if anyone has them. Garmin StreetPilot Color Map Garmin Pilot III Any others that you may be very happy with & why. Thank you Mike H. --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: GPS altitude feature
Dave and Group, I keep reading that the GPS altitude is not reliable. It is for me. Since I added my EIS with altitude, I have compared the altitude of the EIS with my Garmin 12XL. They seem to stay within 40 feet or so, most of the time within 20 feet. With pressure changes, the GPS may be more accurate after an hour or so. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin Dave Rains wrote: > > >> A good GPS provides > >> much of the information needed and augments the gauges. > > > >How about expanding on this a little. About all I can get > >out of my GPS that augments gauges is heading (mag > >compass). Altitude is not reliable. Scratching my head, > >but that is all I can think of now. What else? :-) > > > >Intertainment > Dave Rains ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
> I keep reading that the GPS altitude is not reliable. It is for me. > John Jung John and Gang: GPS altitude reporting is unreliable for me and my GPS. I am not speaking for everyone's. However, I have an old 8 channel Garmin 95XL. My 55AVD prior to the 95XL was also 8 channel and also unreliable in altitude. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Scratching my head, > >but that is all I can think of now. What else? :-) > > > >Intertainment > Dave Rains Dave and Gang: Good morning. Working on my second cup of coffee. Thanks for the info. Had forgotten about "entertainment." I do tend to play with the GPS as I get bored on long XC's. Keeps me from prematurely wearing out my gauges. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 06, 2000
John, Which GPS do you have? Which one do you wish you had if different than the one you are using? Thanks, Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
"Kolb List"
Subject: John Jung
Date: Dec 06, 2000
John Jung, I have been reading your e mails and just read your address is SE Wisconsin. Where are you? I am in Belvidere, IL, which is right next to Rockford. Also, which GPS do you have? Which one do you wish you had if it is different than the one you are now using? I have a KOLB Mark III, which I have flown twice with other pilots, once in Wilminton, NC, and the second with Brian from Lite Speed Aviation (Builders for The New Kolb Company) in Kentucky. Since I got my plane back 2 weeks ago, I have not been able to fly because of weather. I am going to get some experience with a seasoned ultra light pilot before I try solo. If you are close enough, you may want to "fly in" sometime to my strip. I have 800', runs north/south, trees at the south end about 40-50' tall, pattern would be left hand and land heading north. Talk with you soon. PS I tried sending this directly to you at your address (jrjung(at)execp.com) and it came back as "undeliverable". Do I have your correct direct e mail address? Mike H. Mark III --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce McElhoe" <brucem(at)theworks.com>
Subject: Re: GPS ?????
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Mike, I am very satisfied with my Garmin Pilot III. I have used it for 2 years on many trips. It is small, yet I can push the buttons in choppy air, and the display is large enough. Most pilots mount their GPS in some kind of holder....I prefer to let it rest in my lap. Bruce McElhoe FireFly #88 Reedley, Calif. > > I am going to buy a GPS for my Kolb and would like to read some comments > regarding several different models, if anyone has them. > > Garmin StreetPilot Color Map > Garmin Pilot III > Any others that you may be very happy with & why. > > Thank you > > Mike H. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
John H and Group, You might have hit on why people see such a difference in GPS altitude accuracy: The 8 v.s. 12 channel technology. 12 channels do a lot of thing better than 8. I used to have a Garmin 45 (8 channels) but it's been so long that I forgot about using less that 12 channels. John Jung John Hauck wrote: > > > I keep reading that the GPS altitude is not reliable. It is for me. > > > John Jung > > John and Gang: > > GPS altitude reporting is unreliable for me and my GPS. I > am not speaking for everyone's. However, I have an old 8 > channel Garmin 95XL. My 55AVD prior to the 95XL was also 8 > channel and also unreliable in altitude. > > john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
> You might have hit on why people see such a difference in GPS altitude > accuracy: The 8 v.s. 12 channel technology. 12 channels do a lot of > thing better than 8. > John Jung Kolb Folks: Don't get the wrong idea about 8 channel GPS capability. I did my 1994 flight with the 55AVD. Used a Commant passive antenna mounted on top of the center section. Never lost coverage once during the entire flight. For the 2000 flight I updated to a used, in new condition, 95XL 8 channel. I will use this GPS for my 2001 attempt to fly to Barrow, Alaska. I have no qualms using it. The major difference between 8 and 12 channel is the ability of the 12 channel to acquire satellites quickly and in areas that are not direct line of sight. The 8 channel has to see in order to receive. I find that no problem, even in the far north, in mountains, where the angle of sight to the satellite is very low to the horizon. I think we have more satellites now than we did in 1994, plus we did away with the built in degradation. Now for the sales pitch! Naw, just kidding. But if someone is interested in my 1993 Garmin 55AVD with Jeppesen Data Base, updated and over hauled by Garmin in 1997, ready to hook up to your aircraft battery, let me know. I will sell it. My current GPS is a 1994 Garmin 95XL. Basically the same GPS with some added info features. Both are worn on the thigh with a two inch velcro strap. It is not in the way. Is easy to see and operate. Takes up no premium panel space. :-) Take care, pray for warmer weather, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ALLENB007(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Fw: My friend is gone
I too would like to respond to the previous comments regarding this aviator's untimely death. My condolonces are with his family. Having flown for over 12 yrs, beginning in gliders and becoming a commercial glider pilot, I have the upmost respect for altitude. After all, there's no engine to save you. I went from gliders to ultralights, getting my BFI and enjoyed introducing people to the joy of flying. Altitude was and still is one of my pet peeves. You can hardly get enough of it. Recently I've come full circle, purchasing a Grob 109A Motorglider with a glide ratio of 30-1. At 2,500 feet, I still feel low. I want to be able to get to adjoining airports should my engine quit unexpectedly. All of us should put safety paramount in our flying and with ultralights, each preflight is an annual of sorts and should be conducted as if our life depends on it which it does. If you fly low, fly low over terrain that you can land in, not crash in should an engine fail and remember that the glide ratio in ultralilghts is very, very low and the more altitude the better. Lets all of us fly safely and encourage the same of our fellow pilots if we see unsafe movements about us. Allen Bellamy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
Date: Dec 06, 2000
John & group, Do all GPS's give altitude? For example does the Garmin Color Street Pilot give altitude and would one want this for an airplane? Thank you, Mike H. --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
> Do all GPS's give altitude? For example does the Garmin Color Street Pilot > give altitude and would one want this for an airplane? > > Mike H. Mike and Gang: Check out this web site: http://www.garmin.com/ Got bunches of info on all Garmin GPS's here. I prefer having the capabilities of the aviation GPS, primarily for airfield info because I like to XC outside my local area. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
In a message dated 12/6/00 8:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrjung(at)execpc.com writes: << I keep reading that the GPS altitude is not reliable. It is for me. >> Since the government relaxed the rule about the required error in GPS', mine is very accurate. Check yours again, John [Hauck]. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Harry Reasoner and Helicopters
Hi Gang: Just for a little change of pace, here is a description of helicopters by Harry Reasoner. This is dedicated to all helicopter pilots, especially VN era Army helicopter pilots. And you UL pilots thought you had your hands full keeping your UL in the air. :-) ********************************************* "The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces and controls working in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously. There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter. This is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane pilot, and why in generality, airplane pilots are open, clear-eyed, buoyant extroverts and helicopter pilots are brooding introspective anticipators of trouble. They know if something bad has not happened it is about to." Harry Reasoner, February 16, 1971 ******************************************** Well, maybe UL pilots are more like helicopter pilots and airplane pilots. hehehe I love it. john h PS: Now you know why I am different. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: GPS altitude feature
> Since the government relaxed the rule about the required error in GPS', mine > is very accurate. Check yours again, John [Hauck]. > > Howard Shackleford Howard and Gang: Mine too. In all areas except altitude. I would never bet my ass on the accuracy of indicated altitude on my GPS, even after the upgrade by Uncle Sam. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Harry Reasoner and Helicopters
Hey Gang: Gotta start proof reading my stuff. This: > > Well, maybe UL pilots are more like helicopter pilots and > airplane pilots. hehehe I love it. Should have read: "Well, maybe UL pilots are more like helicopter pilots than airplane pilots." Makes a difference doesn't it? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: Annamarie <vincentam(at)chartermi.net>
Subject: EIS SYSTEM
I found some information that may be of interest. In the December 2000, Ultralight Flying Magazine, page 25, in Dan Johnson's Flight Report of the Phantom X-IE; Dan says quote: " Like most electronic gizmos, you must learn how to properly use the EIS, but it delivers alot of information in an easy read format. My only complaint with electronic instruments is that you can't simply shoot a quick glance; you must spend the second or so to read the number shown and interpret. In some cases you must switch to a different screen to see other readings. Contrarily, a set of analog gauges that are well designed and organized can supply details with the briefest of looks. I was given the instructions to turn the EIS system off before shutting off the engine." I hope this will be helpful. Bill Vincent Firestar II Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
http://members.aol.com/n8754k/larry.jpg Hey Will - who's this goofy looking guy? And is that an ultralight engine or a drag racer? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Watch it mister. 2500 miles might not be far enuf ! ! ! Besides, it's an ultralight drag race engine. What happened to that video ?? Good Lookin' Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Possum" <possums(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > > http://members.aol.com/n8754k/larry.jpg > > > Hey Will - who's this goofy looking guy? > And is that an ultralight engine or a drag racer? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Bad Address
Date: Dec 06, 2000
Sorry to use the List, but no choice...............R. Harris, your address isn't working. Please email me off List. Lar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> >Watch it mister. 2500 miles might not be far enuf ! ! ! Besides, it's an >ultralight drag race engine. What happened to that video ?? >Good Lookin' Lar. We are having "technical troubles" with the next video, like the "Rocket" thing. Example: Is it illegal to shoot "buzzards " with a paint ball gun. In Georgia - "buzzards " are apparently an endangered species/protected species. Why?: I guess because they eat carrion/dead animals on the roads. Therefore you cannot "shoot" them. And what, as Bill Clinton might say, - what does "shoot them" mean? They don't seem to mind it too much. Makes them funny colors- But as you know, I wouldn't want to break the rules. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Two good reasons to use EIS. Your Ultralight will vibrate more in the air and on the ground more than a heavy airplane. You can literally shake an analog instrument to death.Secondly,you can actually see and read the EIS display's big numbers. I don't know how you could install all of the gauges to perform all of the functions in the panel space provided in a Firestar, that the EIS offers you. The warning light system alone is so valuable in a 2 stroke that I could make no other choice logically.G.Aman FS2 75hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Zep Rep and Gang: I was headed for bed, but will have to make a comment or two on this msg. > Two good reasons to use EIS. Your Ultralight will vibrate more in the air and > on the ground more than a heavy airplane. You can literally shake an analog > instrument to death. Any reasonable measure of shockmounting the instrument panel, same same real airplanes, will insure long life for quality analog instruments. Mine have well over 1400 hours on them. I reckon if I shook hard enough, I could shake anything apart, or even to death. > Secondly,you can actually see and read the EIS display's > big numbers. I can actually see the big needle and dials on my analogs. > I don't know how you could install all of the gauges to perform > all of the functions in the panel space provided in a Firestar, that the EIS > offers you. I installed all the gauges in the Firestar that I needed for safe, reliable VFR flight. Plus some I didn't need. Did not require all the available functions of the EIS. > The warning light system alone is so valuable in a 2 stroke that > I could make no other choice logically.G.Aman FS2 75hrs How many engines have been saved by gauges and EIS's? The warning light is not going to save your engine. All it does is tell you that a parameter you set has been exceeded. Usually by the time we realize there's a problem, the engine has already seized or come apart. I have yet to have the gauges save an engine, if it was a seizure or catastrophic failure. Well, I only seized one twice, in about a 15 minutes time span. If it is going to seize or have a catastrophic failure, it will probably happen in a blink. Won't matter if you have digital or analog instrumentation. I say, to each his own. I fly with little round gauges, you fly with a black box. :-) If they didn't help, or if I didn't think they helped, I wouldn't fly with them. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> >Two good reasons to use EIS. Your Ultralight will vibrate more in the air and >on the ground more than a heavy airplane. You can literally shake an analog >instrument to death.Secondly,you can actually see and read the EIS display's >big numbers. I don't know how you could install all of the gauges to perform >all of the functions in the panel space provided in a Firestar, that the EIS >offers you. The warning light system alone is so valuable in a 2 stroke that >I could make no other choice logically.G.Aman FS2 75hrs I agree and "I" was an (analog) kind of guy. Quick scan the panel and you knew "basically" what was going on. EIS was a "numbers" kind of thing. Totally different. Tried to break it after I bought it. Set the light to come one when it shouldn't---it did and it works. Wasn't sure I could still trust the light. ---so set so other traps for it. It passed with flying colors. Honest to God, this thing is going to replace 75% of our instruments. And it should. It's better. Hell it only takes about 1 or 2 days to completely convert to it. IMHO ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Winter flying--ice flying
From: Pam & Scott Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Hi, eh! (for those down south that's "Hi Y'all") I want to make a comment about some of my experiences of flying in the wintertime. For a number of years I've been flying off of skis and really enjoy it. I combine my flying with ice fishing. I fly into some remote lakes and always have snowshoes and other equipment with me. The snowshoes are just in case I have to make my own runway to get off the lake. Hopefully, I'll never have to walk out. The skis I made are really wide and work really well in deep snow. They disperse the weight evenly. For example, I landed on the lake (50 miles north) where there tends to be heavy snowfall. The plane did real well. I stopped, stepped out of the plane. As soon as I did, I sank down into the snow, over my knees and half of it was slush. But the plane stayed right on top of that whole mess. I worked hard, playing in the slush to put two holes in to fish, but got skunked--only a nibble. The daylight hours are pretty short up here, so there's not much time to fly. I rarely have gotten cold when I fly in the winter. Once I flew when it was six below and sunny and have almost fallen asleep in the cockpit. I've always said "fur and feathers for warmth." I have a down suit and muskrat hat. Works for me! Normally our temperatures average teens and twenties. Makes it nicer. One thing I have to do with my 912 engine is I have to cover up the oil reservoir and the radiator with an insulated blanket to get the oil temp up. Merry Christmas to all from the Great White North (a.k.a the U. P.--eh!) Scott Trask N38ST Iron Mountain, MI P.S. (I'm hoping to organize a winter fly-in up here on a lake and roast weenies over a fire this winter.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Winter flying--ice flying
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Scott, Do you have an engine pre-heater? Larger Battery because it is a 4 cycle engine? Do you use a thinner oil? My skis are made from old wooden water shis, what are your skis made from? Dale Seitzer I want to make a comment about some of my experiences of flying in the wintertime. For a number of years I've been flying off of skis and really enjoy it. I combine my flying with ice fishing. I fly into some remote lakes and always have snowshoes and other equipment with me. The snowshoes are just in case I have to make my own runway to get off the lake. Hopefully, I'll never have to walk out. The skis I made are really wide and work really well in deep snow. They disperse the weight evenly. For example, I landed on the lake (50 miles north) where there tends to be heavy snowfall. The plane did real well. I stopped, stepped out of the plane. As soon as I did, I sank down into the snow, over my knees and half of it was slush. But the plane stayed right on top of that whole mess. I worked hard, playing in the slush to put two holes in to fish, but got skunked--only a nibble. The daylight hours are pretty short up here, so there's not much time to fly. I rarely have gotten cold when I fly in the winter. Once I flew when it was six below and sunny and have almost fallen asleep in the cockpit. I've always said "fur and feathers for warmth." I have a down suit and muskrat hat. Works for me! Normally our temperatures average teens and twenties. Makes it nicer. One thing I have to do with my 912 engine is I have to cover up the oil reservoir and the radiator with an insulated blanket to get the oil temp up. Merry Christmas to all from the Great White North (a.k.a the U. P.--eh!) Scott Trask N38ST Iron Mountain, MI P.S. (I'm hoping to organize a winter fly-in up here on a lake and roast weenies over a fire this winter.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Winter flying--ice flying
> Scott Trask N38ST > Iron Mountain, MI > > P.S. (I'm hoping to organize a winter fly-in up here on a lake and roast > weenies over a fire this winter.) Scott: Send me date, time and coordinates, please. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Aviation Quizes
Morning Gang: I have my analog OAT stuck outside the front door so I can see that it is 33 deg at hauck's holler, alabama, at 0825 this morning. Cold for me, but warm for Scott Trask and most of you guys up north. Was reading this morning's AVWEB on the internet, comes out twice weekly now. If you want it sent to your email address the url is: http://www.avweb.com/signup I haven't had time to look through them, but there are 36 aviation quizes at this location: http://www.avweb.com/toc/brain.html They look like they might be good for us ultralight pilots too. Some of them are IFR related, but most have to do with weather minimums, METAR (weather coding and abreviations), radio procedure, Class D airspace, medicals, etc. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KHe1144783(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Two more things about EIS. The Company was incredible when I called them with a question regarding a Charging problem. It took them 1 min. to determine I had a bad voltage regulater. They even had a very high quality one they sold me to replace it and I got very quickly. No long holds on the phone so you can talk to someone who doesnt know anything and cant help you. They inadvertantly sent me the wrong diameter EGT probes for my exhaust I called 8 months after I bought it and they sent me the right ones that same day, just on my word that I would return the old ones ! Talk about service. The second thing is that the more time your allowed to scan for traffic instead of focusing on the gauges, the safer your flying. We here about pilots these days so transfixed on there "Glass cockpit" and focused on there GPS that they lose there situational awareness. With the EIS, you can choose when to check your numbers like when your away from traffic. Keep It Simple-the EIS does that. Kris Henkel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
John H, I agree with you 99% of the time and you have my respect. But this time I feel that you are leading the wrong way. You said "The warning light is not going to save your engine. All it does is tell you that a parameter you set has been exceeded." If the light is telling the pilot that his EGT limit has been exceeded, he has time to pull back on the throttle and/or stop diving before the dangerous, engine killing limit is exceeded. This is most important part of the EIS, and the one thing that analog gauges cannot do. In my 503 Firestar, all it takes to exceeded the EGT is to let the plane dive without reducing the throttle enough. In turbulent air, this can happen without being noticed. It is unlikely that a pilot with analog EGT gauge would notice that his EGT has exceeded the limit in time to save the engine. Haveing a light turn on to get the pilots attention, maybe 20 degrees before the danger point, gives the pilot a chance that he would have had with an analog EIS. I am not saying that analog gauges don't help. They just don't help as much as an EIS does. John, please re-read what you wrote last night, below. To me, you made a good case for having an EIS without admitting that they are better. If you had used an EIS to any extent, you would know that EGT's to not go up "in a blink". It would only seem like a "blink" because there was no problem the last time the gauges were scanned, and the engine quit before the next time they were scanned. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin John Hauck wrote: > snip.... > > How many engines have been saved by gauges and EIS's? The > warning light is not going to save your engine. All it does > is tell you that a parameter you set has been exceeded. > Usually by the time we realize there's a problem, the engine > has already seized or come apart. I have yet to have the > gauges save an engine, if it was a seizure or catastrophic > failure. Well, I only seized one twice, in about a 15 > minutes time span. If it is going to seize or have a > catastrophic failure, it will probably happen in a blink. > Won't matter if you have digital or analog instrumentation. > > I say, to each his own. I fly with little round gauges, you > fly with a black box. :-) If they didn't help, or if I > didn't think they helped, I wouldn't fly with them. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net>
Subject: 582/618 temperatures
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Not being used to flying water cooled engines, I am not sure what temps I should expect, especially during this cold time of year. I am currently seeing about 100 degrees for water, 200 for CHT, and 1000 for EGT. I want to set the EIS to alarm when certain unknown temps are reach, but not sure at what point the various temps are getting too high. If these temps are too low, how do some of you bring them up. Probably hard to obstruct the radiator with a pusher configuration with the possibility of something coming loose and going throough the prop?? Thanks, Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MitchMnD(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb List, R.I.P.?
Hello Gene, It was really good to hear from you. You are on the right track in your test phase flying. One test objective at a time. There is an EAA video on "First Flights in Your Ultra /Light Plane". If you don't already have a copy you should be looking for one. Also, I don't do any engine out simulations, steep turns, stalls , etc., at <1,500' AGL. You did not mention if you have a parachute. I know they are not sure things but at least they keep your mind busy while your falling. I brought mine home Monday and am the process of installing a sound deadening panel behind my seatback. I am also going to add a storage pouch for my camera. When finished I will take her down to the strip near our Ochlockonee Bay townhouse. It is on the sectionals as Wakulla Co Airport, Panacea, FL. When I was there last week about 6 Challengers and one Kolb came in and stayed overnight. Right now there is probably more activity there than at Quincy. I'll keep you posted. Regards, Duane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: SLINGSHOT PILOT CRASH
Date: Dec 07, 2000
If you have the 2001 copy of the new CPS (California Power Systems) catalog, the cover is that of a person flying a red Kolb Slingshot through a mountainous/valley. Does anyone know who this is? I hope it is not the pilot recently crashed his Slingshot is a "mountainous valley". Mike H. --- MIKE HOUSEWERT --- mhousewert(at)earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Flaps
Date: Dec 07, 2000
I have been discussing Props, Clearance, Noise level, and Flaps. From the information I have gathered it seems that the prop can create quite a bit of sound due to it because of its proximity to the flaps. If that is true could the flaps be shortened any and not be detrimental to the handling of aircraft. I also understand not much flap is used unless you are landing at a short field. I was thinking of moving them a little further away from the prop area. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Wheel Pants
Date: Dec 07, 2000
I am looking for a good source for Wheel Pants for my Mark III Xtra. I want to cut any drag that I can. I see some really nice ones on your pictures and would like to know where you got them. Julian Warren, Eugene, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Go5for4(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Mark-3 aileron trim ?
I did a spell check but I am a lousy proof reader. It should read bungee cord. You got me good. Gotta start proof reading my stuff. Merle I have been in some third world countries where using the can was a bit more challenging than normal, but I'll have to admit, I have never used a dung-y cord.... And (I'm almost afraid to ask) what kind of passengers do you normally carry, that the dung-y cord compensates for? (Even though the wife and I are both Old Poops, and should know such things, this one has us baffled!) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Dung-y
Date: Dec 07, 2000
My search engine turned this up: Dungy: See Coach, Tony, Tampa Bay Buccaneers. (Also formerly of JXN.) ;-) Ed in JXN MkII/503 ============================================================ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aliaskent1(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
Gentleman, Allow me to introduce myself, My Name is Russ Widman. I'm a Kolb Mark III builder. I've just completed my aircraft after 6 and a half years, and when you see it you will understand what the hell took me so long. I live in New Jersey and the past few weeks the temp has been cold. Real cold, but I'm not about to wait till spring to enjoy my new airplane. Last Sat I took my Mark III out for its eighth hour of flight. I flew for one hour at 2500 ft and my OAT was reading 24 degrees. My toes were freezing but my face was in a warm tropical breeze. My day job is a designer/modelmaker and for a living I build prototype models. I decided to take the time to solve the problem of cabin heat as simply and cleanly as possible, and I believe I have. I have created a heat exchanger that slides over the standard Rotax 582 muffler which I believe is the same muffler for the 503, and maybe 447's. It only works as well as the cabin is sealed, but this weekend I will test it again after addressing several of the leaks I have found. My prototype is working so well I have ordered enough material for 15 units and am getting quotes from a local shop to build packages for me. If anyone has questions or would like to see photos, contact me so you can enjoy your winter like I'm going to. Contact me at N112KC(at)AOL.com. This weekend I hope to have aerials available of my plane which can be viewed through my home page. Check it out. Russ Widman N112KC(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aliaskent1(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: Re; Cabin heat for my Mark III
Gentleman, Allow me to introduce myself, My Name is Russ Widman. I'm a Kolb Mark III builder. I've just completed my aircraft after 6 and a half years, and when you see it you will understand what the hell took me so long. I live in New Jersey and the past few weeks the temp has been cold. Real cold, but I'm not about to wait till spring to enjoy my new airplane. Last Sat I took my Mark III out for its eighth hour of flight. I flew for one hour at 2500 ft and my OAT was reading 24 degrees. My toes were freezing but my face was in a warm tropical breeze. My day job is a designer/modelmaker and for a living I build prototype models. I decided to take the time to solve the problem of cabin heat as simply and cleanly as possible, and I believe I have. I have created a heat exchanger that slides over the standard Rotax 582 muffler which I believe is the same muffler for the 503, and maybe 447's. It only works as well as the cabin is sealed, but this weekend I will test it again after addressing several of the leaks I have found. My prototype is working so well I have ordered enough material for 15 units and am getting quotes from a local shop to build packages for me. If anyone has questions or would like to see photos, contact me so you can enjoy your winter like I'm going to. Contact me at N112KC(at)AOL.com. This weekend I hope to have aerials available of my plane which can be viewed through my home page. Check it out. Russ Widman N112KC(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RPHanks(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Subject: EIS vs Needles
Dear list: I have a quad egt/cht 3 1/4" guage (one egt/cht for each carb), airspeed indicater, 270 sweep tach, compass, and altimeter. These fit well into my shock mounted firestar panel. I like having needles to look at because it is easier to see the rate of change than on a digital readout. I have no trouble seeing if the temps are getting close to redline or heading in that direction in a hurry. I have only 60 hours on my gauges (46 since April) but they have been very reliable so far. I took my UL training in a two place beaver 550 with digital tach and altitude gauges and wasn't happy with them. I guess it comes down to personal preference. Just bought a Magellan 315 GPS last week. So far I'm very happy with it. It is simple to use and agrees quite well with all of my instruments including altitude. It has never been more than 20 feet different. I hang it around my neck on a shoestring and grab it with my throttle hand when needed. It was on sale at Bi-Mart for $129 and I couldn't resist getting myself an early Christmas present. Many of the more expensive units have a few more bells and whistles, but really don't give you a whole lot more USABLE information. I do a lot of hunting and hiking and wanted something to pack along in the woods that would also work well in the firestar. No gripes so far. Went out yesterday and was pleased to find the 35 surface temps turned to 55 or so about 2000 ft AGL. Saw three NICE bucks on Grizzly peak up in the snow. Flew for 1.2 hours, all the way up to 8000 feet and still only used 2.2gals of gas. I love this winter air! Big Lar, You have the coolest exhaust I have ever seen on an ultralight! I hope your plane flies as good as it looks! Keep up the good work. P.S. Sorry for sending my Christmas mail to the list a few days ago. It was supposed to go to a friend in Finland!! OOPS! Merry Christmas to you too Rev. Pike! I think OP stands for Outstanding Pastor, not Old Poops :-) P.P.S. If you want to know what is in the fuel you are buying (alcohol etc.) just ask for the MSDS (material safety data sheet) at the station. They are required by the EPA to provide you with the information. Your tax dollars at work. So long for now... Roger in Ashland, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Why has not general aviation scrapped their analog gauges in favor of one unit giving instrumentation on all facets of the flight and mechanical operation of their craft? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Possum" <possums(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > > > >Two good reasons to use EIS. Your Ultralight will vibrate more in the air > and > >on the ground more than a heavy airplane. You can literally shake an analog > >instrument to death.Secondly,you can actually see and read the EIS display's > >big numbers. I don't know how you could install all of the gauges to perform > >all of the functions in the panel space provided in a Firestar, that the EIS > >offers you. The warning light system alone is so valuable in a 2 stroke that > >I could make no other choice logically.G.Aman FS2 75hrs > > > I agree and "I" was an (analog) kind of guy. > Quick scan the panel and you knew "basically" what was going on. > EIS was a "numbers" kind of thing. > Totally different. Tried to break it after I bought it. > Set the light to come one when it shouldn't---it did and it works. > Wasn't sure I could still trust the light. ---so set so other traps for it. > It passed with flying colors. Honest to God, this thing is going to replace > 75% of our instruments. > And it should. It's better. Hell it only takes about 1 or 2 days to > completely convert to it. IMHO > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Sounds like you had a lot of problems with your EIS! ----- Original Message ----- From: <KHe1144783(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > Two more things about EIS. The Company was incredible when I called them with > a question regarding a Charging problem. It took them 1 min. to determine I > had a bad voltage regulater. They even had a very high quality one they sold > me to replace it and I got very quickly. No long holds on the phone so you > can talk to someone who doesnt know anything and cant help you. They > inadvertantly sent me the wrong diameter EGT probes for my exhaust I called 8 > months after I bought it and they sent me the right ones that same day, just > on my word that I would return the old ones ! Talk about service. The second > thing is that the more time your allowed to scan for traffic instead of > focusing on the gauges, the safer your flying. We here about pilots these > days so transfixed on there "Glass cockpit" and focused on there GPS that > they lose there situational awareness. With the EIS, you can choose when to > check your numbers like when your away from traffic. Keep It Simple-the EIS > does that. Kris Henkel > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Important stuff!
Date: Dec 07, 2000
Being from Arizona, you Yankees are giving me the shivers flying in that cold stuff. I don't know if I could handle flying in anything below 32F. I admire your gumption and stamina. I'd like to bring to everybody's attention something of great importance. The Tucson Ultralight club has just lost out on a great opportunity, supposedly with the cooperation of the Tucson Airport Authority and the city of Tucson to lease for $1/year, 160 acres for use as an ultralight airpark west of town in a relatively isolated area. The proposal has been turned down and deemed unacceptable because of behavior of some ultralight pilots, no one will ever know who, hotshot behavior of "buzzing" earthlings who were just minding their own business. We have run up against a brick wall. Please let's practice responsible flying wherever you may be. It will reflect on all of us. My cow has died so I don't need any of your bull! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
No need, they have more panel space to fit all them gauges. Also it's more practical to keep GA airplanes, flown by different pilots, standard so they don't get confused. In a message dated 12/7/00 11:14:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: > Why has not general aviation scrapped their analog gauges in favor of one > unit giving instrumentation on all facets of the flight and mechanical > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Ken, One reason that general aviation has not changed, is thar the EIS is not legal in their planes. They have so many rules and laws that are difficult to change that general aviation cannot keep up use technology. John Jung Ken Broste wrote: > > Why has not general aviation scrapped their analog gauges in favor of one > unit giving instrumentation on all facets of the flight and mechanical > operation of their craft? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KHe1144783(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
In a message dated 12/7/00 8:16:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net writes: << Sounds like you had a lot of problems with your EIS! >>Ken: My letter states I had a problem with the Voltage Regulater, not the EIS unit . There is no Voltage Regulater in the EIS and I wouldnt call getting the wrong diameter "Hose Clamps" for the exhaust a "Problem". Kris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Re; Cabin heat for my Mark III
Russ, Welcome to active portion of the Kolb list. Thanks for offering the heater info and I look forward to seeing pictures of your plane when you get them on your web site. I am thinking about adding a rear enclosure and heat to my Firestar II, so I am interested in what you have done. John Jung SE Wisconsin Aliaskent1(at)aol.com wrote: > > Gentleman, Allow me to introduce myself, My Name is Russ Widman. I'm a Kolb > Mark III builder. snip.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WingManBill2(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Permanent Gap Seal
Anybody out there mount their gap seal permanent, if so, how did you arrange for removal/insertion of the clevis pins for main spar attachment, trying to figure where to cut and allow my hand to reach in and put that sucker in! Photo's would be a big help! Also tryin to figure the seal between the windshield and the gap seal, ordered the sheet metal and the rubber piece from Sue at TNK. ___!___ -----------( / )----------- " " Bill Johnston Jr Building Mark III Classic Harpers Ferry, WV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: 582/618 temperatures
A water cooled Rotax ought to run at least 140 degrees. Takes offs too cold can cause cold seizure of the engine. Aim for 140 to 180. If you let it get real cold in a descent, ease the power back in gradually to let it heat back up gradually and safely. I do not have a CHT. IMHO, EGT's should be 1075-1150 for a 582. NOTE: Cross check all EGT gauges with plug readings. Gauges lie, plugs don't. The older 532's could be run hotter, I run mine 1150-1200, pulled the exhaust manifold off earlier this week, piston top and cylinder head carbon free, rings loose and clean, one small area of one exhaust port has an area of carbon buildup about 1/4" wide, 3/4" long. Oil is Phillips Injex, and have quit using Seafoam (groan, here we go again!) and started using OMC Quicksilver carbon remover, 1 ounce to 6 gallons of premix. Raise the temperatures by blocking the radiator on it's front side with something that will not hurt the prop if it comes off. I don't block my radiator, but iff'in I did... Why not use an old piece of Naugahyde, secure it to the front side of the radiator with tie wraps, poked through the fabric and the radiator fins and looped back. If it comes off, it might (?) successfully go through the prop w/o damage. (Try not to find out) (If this doesn't work, I do accept public abuse...) (Don't send me the bill for your prop) (If the Naugahyde melts all into your radiator, could you post pictures so that the rest of us can enjoy them?) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Not being used to flying water cooled engines, I am not sure what temps I >should expect, especially during this cold time of year. > >I am currently seeing about 100 degrees for water, 200 for CHT, and 1000 >for EGT. > >I want to set the EIS to alarm when certain unknown temps are reach, but not >sure at what point the various temps are getting too high. > >If these temps are too low, how do some of you bring them up. Probably hard >to obstruct the radiator with a pusher configuration with the possibility of >something coming loose and going throough the prop?? > >Thanks, > >Ron > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Wheel Pants
California Power Systems. They have 3 sizes, get the big ones 1-800-AIRWOLF. Also Aircraft Spruce sells pants. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >I am looking for a good source for Wheel Pants for my Mark III Xtra. I want >to cut any drag that I can. I see some really nice ones on your pictures >and would like to know where you got them. > >Julian Warren, >Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cavuontop(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: 582/618 temperatures
In a message dated 12/8/00 9:04:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, richard(at)BCChapel.org writes: > A water cooled Rotax ought to run at least 140 degrees. Takes offs too > cold can cause cold seizure of the engine > > I would never presume to contradict the redoubtable Mr. Pike. I observe, however, that the current Rotax recommended minimum operating temperature for a 582 is 155 f. For most folks with the stock Kolb recommended Rotax top mounted twin radiators getting that temperature with an oat of less than 60 f will require blocking off a portion of the radiator. I use duct tape. Simple. Easy off and on. I have been meaning to make a little chart showing how many strips of duct tape are needed at what oat. I'll get around to it someday. At an oat of 40 f I have had to block off almost all of one of the radiators to keep the water temps in the right range. Mark R. Sellers Kolb Twinstar Mark III N496BM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Permanent Gap Seal
Date: Dec 08, 2000
What rubber piece??? Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of WingManBill2(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 10:30 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Permanent Gap Seal Anybody out there mount their gap seal permanent, if so, how did you arrange for removal/insertion of the clevis pins for main spar attachment, trying to figure where to cut and allow my hand to reach in and put that sucker in! Photo's would be a big help! Also tryin to figure the seal between the windshield and the gap seal, ordered the sheet metal and the rubber piece from Sue at TNK. ___!___ -----------( / )----------- " " Bill Johnston Jr Building Mark III Classic Harpers Ferry, WV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: EIS SYSTEM
Date: Dec 08, 2000
My only complaint with electronic instruments is that you > can't simply shoot a quick glance; you must spend the second or so to > read the number shown and interpret. In some cases you must switch to a > different screen to see other readings. Contrarily, a set of analog > gauges that are well designed and organized can supply details with the > briefest of looks I disagree with this whole comment. I have been working for Powersport Aviation developing the fuel injection map for the Powersport engine, and have been using various gages for egt and O2 sensors, oil water baro everything. Analog gages can not be read with any accuracy with the briefest of looks. this is something that people say about them all the time and it is just not so. To get a decent number out of an analog EGT gage you must look at it very carefully and see where the tip of the needle is. A brief look will maybe give you egt to + or - 20 degrees. I dont feel that is accurate enough even for just monitoring purposes. The whole point of the EIS is that you do not have to monitor all those gages. The computer does it and if any value is out of bounds it lights up a big red light to let you know to check out the motor. so you get accuracy and warnings. you do not need to get the information in the briefest of glances, which doesn't work well anyway. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 08, 2000
> Why has not general aviation scrapped their analog gauges in favor of one > unit giving instrumentation on all facets of the flight and mechanical > operation of their craft? They are coming in the new aircraft, but to do so costs them tens of thousands of dollars because every part in the instrument has to be certified. And because GA doesn't do it is a bad reason for safety minded folks to not choose to use a clearly superior system if it is available. GA is the most hindered part of our society. the technology in a GA plane is almost unchanged for over 40 years, due to the double whammy of ridiculous over regulation and huge lawsuits. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Will you guys quit about EIS and or analog gauges (gages) , I built my MK3 and put a 912 on because I wanted to.. I also put a EIS system in it because I wanted to.. I would have put a 277 on and one halls air speed indicator. if I wanted to... that's the thing about our sport , you can do it like YOU want to... So just put what you want on or in YOUR airplane and enjoy.... Richard Harris Lewisville , AR. MK3 SN M233 N912RH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > > I have heard both pros and cons on the EIS system. I would like > > to have some comments on this thing to help me decide. Thanks in advance > > In four words...."You won't be sorry." I'd like to know what > negatives you've heard? I really like my unit, saves space, is > accurate, never failed, easy to read, etc....... > > > J.Baker > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: EIS SYSTEM
Date: Dec 08, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EIS SYSTEM > > My only complaint with electronic instruments is that you > > can't simply shoot a quick glance; you must spend the second or so to > > read the number shown and interpret. In some cases you must switch to a > > different screen to see other readings. Contrarily, a set of analog > > gauges that are well designed and organized can supply details with the > > briefest of looks > > I disagree with this whole comment. I have been working for Powersport > Aviation developing the fuel injection map for the Powersport engine, and > have been using various gages for egt and O2 sensors, oil water baro > everything. Powersport engine?? info please Topher.... Geoff Thistlethwaite ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Well, guess I can't argue with that kind of logic. How about weight? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Ever sat in an Airbus cockpit? Seems like they are headed that way. Do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2000
Subject: Re: EIS vs Needles
In a message dated 12/7/00 11:11:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, RPHanks(at)aol.com writes: << Rev. Pike! I think OP stands for Outstanding Pastor, not Old Poops :-) P.P.S. If you want to know what is in the fuel you are buying (alcohol etc.) just ask for the MSDS (material safety data sheet) at the station. They are required by the EPA to provide you with the information. Your tax dollars at work. So long for now... Roger in Ashland, OR >> Roger...I didn't know that.....so that is what the 40.9 cent tax in Akron,Ohio goes for! and I use MSDS sheets all the time....but didn't know it was required by law for gasoline...thanks....GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Powerspote engine
Date: Dec 09, 2000
What is a Powersport engine and is there one that will fit on a FireStar? I have read so many reports on the list about Rotax two strokes failing that I am getting paranoid. I seams like they are falling out of the sky like rain drops. Is the failure rate of a Rotax two stroke higher than other engines used in out type of aircraft? Ron Payne FireStar II builder Gilbertsville, Ky. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Richard, I don't think you understand what this discussion is all about. It is not about personal choice, it is about lowering risk, and increasing safety. That is why it is worth our time. If it weren't, I, for one, would not waste my time on it. I also have no problem with someone deciding that they do not need to increase their safety. What I do have a problem with, is someone making that decision without all the information. That is what this list is about: Sharing information to make the building and flying of Kolb airplanes easier and safer. John Jung Firestar II N6163J SE Wisconsin "R. Harris" wrote: > > Will you guys quit about EIS and or analog gauges (gages) snip..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Powersporte engine
Two strokes do demand a much higher level of owner savvy than 4 strokes. But: I think a lot depends on your perspective. Having come out of the bad old days of "motorized hang gliding", the possibility of an off field forced landing does not particularly worry me. Having flown in front of a Mac 101, forced landings were a way of life. (Have Fun! Meet New People!) I would love to have an engine with the reliability of a 108 HP Lycoming, the Rotax 912 probably comes close. But I can't afford that. I have about 15% of the cost of a 912 invested in my old 532, and it seems to be doing just great. I don't know the real odds, but if there is a one in 10,000 chance of a 912 quitting on you on any given flight, a well maintained two stroke probably has a one in 2,500 chance of quitting. I can live with those odds. But I won't fly at night either... On the other hand, a 912 that is merely fed enough oil, gas and otherwise ignored, might possibly (?) have a one in 500 chance of quitting on any given flight. (?) A two stroke treated that way will probably have a one in 25 chance of quitting. And IMHO, that is the basis of the "two-stroke failure rate problem" Caveat: Not all two stroke failures are owner related; Rotax has from time to time, released some screw ups. For instance: Early 582's had much more fragile cranks than later ones, according to the guru at LEAF. And I had a local friend get a new-in-the-box 277 with no wrist pin circlips installed. It continued to run long enough to get him home even after the wrist pin had dug a 1/4" groove in the side of the cylinder wall. Found it on tear down. Go figure. 4 strokes are great. Two strokes are satisfactory, but you gotta' treat them right. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >What is a Powersport engine and is there one that will fit on a FireStar? I >have read so many reports on the list about Rotax two strokes failing that I >am getting paranoid. I seams like they are falling out of the sky like rain >drops. Is the failure rate of a Rotax two stroke higher than other engines >used in out type of aircraft? > >Ron Payne >FireStar II builder >Gilbertsville, Ky. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N51SK(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 12/07/00
In a message dated 12/8/00 2:00:56 AM Central Standard Time, kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > aileron trim ? I'm flying a Mk2 and it's tendency to roll left is noticable also. I intend to install right aileron trim (fixed) as I fly only solo. will let you know how it works Steve K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N51SK(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 12/07/00
In a message dated 12/8/00 2:00:56 AM Central Standard Time, kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > Hi, eh! (for those down south that's "Hi Y'all") Hey Scott....fax me a pastie will ya? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Powersporte engine
Date: Dec 09, 2000
You've all probably heard all the great 912 comments from John H. and others , well here's one more. Local guy just north of me has a Rans S-7 w/ a 912. He is a flying son of a gun and has put 1400+ hours on this motor in approx. 3 or so years. Including flights to Canada from Georgia and all states east of Miss. I believe (or darn close to it.) Anyway 1400+ hours with no maintenance (not ignored just checked over and nothing required...). I am not counting oil changes and spark plug changes , as that is just upkeep. Anyway he developed a leaky water pump a few weeks ago and decided to tear it down and have a look see. Replaced the pump and mic'ed everything else and found everything to be WELL WITHIN tolerances! Just decided to put it back together and fly it! It still uses no oil, never drips a drop. I would go as far to say (and he did as well) that there are NO Lycoming or Continentals that could claim to be that trouble free. Yea their recommended TBO might be 2400 hours but you'll put regular maintence into them (accessories , mag replacements , etc....I have seen mags go out on an o-235 in 20 hours that were certified rebuilds! That will make you glad it has 2!) My $.02 worth...yea it's pricey , but if your gonna really fly the thing then the 912 gets real cheap over the long haul (less fuel consumption , no oil-mixing , EXTREMELY longer time between rebuilds as compared to 2-strokes...) Not knocking 2-strokes cause they have there place as some designs just can't tote the weight of a 912 or the like...just given credit where credit is due. Everybody bad mouths Rotax but they at least did the 912 right for sure! Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Powersporte engine Two strokes do demand a much higher level of owner savvy than 4 strokes. But: I think a lot depends on your perspective. Having come out of the bad old days of "motorized hang gliding", the possibility of an off field forced landing does not particularly worry me. Having flown in front of a Mac 101, forced landings were a way of life. (Have Fun! Meet New People!) I would love to have an engine with the reliability of a 108 HP Lycoming, the Rotax 912 probably comes close. But I can't afford that. I have about 15% of the cost of a 912 invested in my old 532, and it seems to be doing just great. I don't know the real odds, but if there is a one in 10,000 chance of a 912 quitting on you on any given flight, a well maintained two stroke probably has a one in 2,500 chance of quitting. I can live with those odds. But I won't fly at night either... On the other hand, a 912 that is merely fed enough oil, gas and otherwise ignored, might possibly (?) have a one in 500 chance of quitting on any given flight. (?) A two stroke treated that way will probably have a one in 25 chance of quitting. And IMHO, that is the basis of the "two-stroke failure rate problem" Caveat: Not all two stroke failures are owner related; Rotax has from time to time, released some screw ups. For instance: Early 582's had much more fragile cranks than later ones, according to the guru at LEAF. And I had a local friend get a new-in-the-box 277 with no wrist pin circlips installed. It continued to run long enough to get him home even after the wrist pin had dug a 1/4" groove in the side of the cylinder wall. Found it on tear down. Go figure. 4 strokes are great. Two strokes are satisfactory, but you gotta' treat them right. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >What is a Powersport engine and is there one that will fit on a FireStar? I >have read so many reports on the list about Rotax two strokes failing that I >am getting paranoid. I seams like they are falling out of the sky like rain >drops. Is the failure rate of a Rotax two stroke higher than other engines >used in out type of aircraft? > >Ron Payne >FireStar II builder >Gilbertsville, Ky. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <priedlinger(at)triad.rr.com>
Subject: 912 UL EGT
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Can anyone tell me what the normal high end EGT should be on a Rotax 912UL. I have heard opinions from 1350 to 1600. I have searched the manuals from beginning to end and can't find any reference to the proper numbers. Any help would be appreciated. Paul Riedlinger paulried(at)ornaprod.com The Ornamental Group Of Companies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Subject: 912.....
> Just decided to put it > back together and fly it! It still uses no oil..... Most think the hallmark of a quality four stroke aviation engine is it's lack of oil use. Not so. Accellerated upper cylinder wear will quickly negate the savings in added oil. Just ask yer friendly Continental or Lycoming repair shop.... J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Powersporte engine
In a message dated 12/9/00 1:10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrcasey(at)mindspring.com writes: << Everybody bad mouths Rotax but they at least did the 912 right for sure! >> I don't badmouth 2 cycle Rotax....I have been using one since 1992 and have NEVER had an engine out....and I abused it for a coupla flights before I got my EGT too....I'd swear the needle read 1400 a coupla times, before I knew where it shoulda been. And I have had experience with Cuyunnas too and had 3 engine outs between '83 and '91. But I didn't even have an egt on that so I'm sure that I caused them ( had a resonator on the exhaust which really added hp out capacity)...so the fault was mine....It was ok, as I just suffered a coupla broken gear on the pterodactyl on takeoff!....never knew those fibreglas axles could bounce so high when i mushed in from 15 ft!! Passed the first bounce cause the gears shared but when I found I had no control whatsoever after bouncing up 7 ft...I mean straight up...the puppy came straight down at an angle and loaded up one side of the axle and Broke it ....cost me all of $25 to repair in them days...."90 - 91. No, I don't badmouth Rotax at all....I'm amazed! GeoR38 Akron, Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
Date: Dec 09, 2000
It's my understanding that this is a result of the different characteristics of water and air cooled engines. My T'Bird now, and the Saab before it, never ( I didn't stutter ) use any oil between my self-imposed 3000 mile oil changes. T'Bird is close to 70,000 miles now, and I'm not kidding. It uses less than a quart per 3000 miles. Saab started using a little more, WAY over 100,000 miles. Air cooled engines run much hotter, and have a far greater range of operating temps overall. This requires larger clearances, to accomodate expansion and contraction, which will pass more oil, as well as a tendency to burn more of that oil, at those higher temps. 912 heads are water cooled, and run much cooler. As I say, this is my understanding only. Have at 'er. Big Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:06 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 912..... > > > Just decided to put it > > back together and fly it! It still uses no oil..... > > Most think the hallmark of a quality four stroke aviation engine is > it's lack of oil use. Not so. Accellerated upper cylinder wear will > quickly negate the savings in added oil. Just ask yer friendly > Continental or Lycoming repair shop.... > J.Baker > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
Date: Dec 09, 2000
Maybe I should re-phrase that before someone jumps on me..................the Bird uses oil all right, but I've never seen it go as much as a quart low before the 3000 mile change. Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912..... > > It's my understanding that this is a result of the different characteristics > of water and air cooled engines. My T'Bird now, and the Saab before it, > never ( I didn't stutter ) use any oil between my self-imposed 3000 mile oil > changes. T'Bird is close to 70,000 miles now, and I'm not kidding. It uses > less than a quart per 3000 miles. Saab started using a little more, WAY > over 100,000 miles. Air cooled engines run much hotter, and have a far > greater range of operating temps overall. This requires larger clearances, > to accomodate expansion and contraction, which will pass more oil, as well > as a tendency to burn more of that oil, at those higher temps. 912 heads > are water cooled, and run much cooler. As I say, this is my understanding > only. Have at 'er. Big Lar. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:06 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: 912..... > > > > > > > Just decided to put it > > > back together and fly it! It still uses no oil..... > > > > Most think the hallmark of a quality four stroke aviation engine is > > it's lack of oil use. Not so. Accellerated upper cylinder wear will > > quickly negate the savings in added oil. Just ask yer friendly > > Continental or Lycoming repair shop.... > > J.Baker > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 582/618 temperatures
> El Paso >> >Are Naugas like snipes....I admit to almost hunting for them once as a >child....I was told that I almost caught one too. >GeoR38 > The Society for the Preservation of the Nauga 60 Hunters Ct. Amelia, Ohio 45102 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
Can anyone please tell me the proper torque for those 8.8 metric bolts as used on the Ivo prop? My Wingman somehow over-torqued & broke one. $6 each...... Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Powerspote engine
Date: Dec 10, 2000
What is a Powersport engine and is there one that will fit on a FireStar? 215 hp aircraft conversion of the Mazda 13B rotary engine. weights 325 pounds. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
Ivoprop mounting bolts are torqued @ 200 inch pounds. Did he use 200 foot pounds instead? (Ouch!) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Can anyone please tell me the proper torque for those 8.8 metric bolts as >used on the Ivo prop? My Wingman somehow over-torqued & broke one. $6 >each...... > >Shack >FS I >SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Powerspote engine
Date: Dec 10, 2000
I don't guess it will fit on a FireStar. 325 lbs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Powerspote engine > > What is a Powersport engine and is there one that will fit on a FireStar? > > 215 hp aircraft conversion of the Mazda 13B rotary engine. weights 325 > pounds. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
Date: Dec 10, 2000
John , I completely agree with you about sharing information , however this thread had gotten to the point of bickering , and mine is better than yours syndrome .... R Harris MK3 SN M233 N912RH ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" <jrjung(at)execpc.com> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: To EIS or not To EIS > > Richard, > > I don't think you understand what this discussion is all about. > > It is not about personal choice, it is about lowering risk, and increasing > safety. > > That is why it is worth our time. If it weren't, I, for one, would not waste my > time on it. I also have no problem with someone deciding that they do not need > to increase their safety. What I do have a problem with, is someone making that > decision without all the information. That is what this list is about: Sharing > information to make the building and flying of Kolb airplanes easier and safer. > > John Jung > Firestar II N6163J > SE Wisconsin > > "R. Harris" wrote: > > > > > Will you guys quit about EIS and or analog gauges (gages) > > snip..... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. Harris" <rharris@magnolia-net.com>
Subject: Re: 912 UL EGT
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Paul , Rotax is mostly silent on 912 EGT < I think because if you keep the CHT where it should be the EGT will be in line . Having said that I do monitor my EGT but just because the EIS has a place for it.. ( will regret saying EIS ) and my alarm is set for 1800 deg.. Also the placement of the probe in the exhaust pipe has a lot of bearing on indicated. temp. A difference of as little as 1/2 inch will change the reading 200 deg . Rotax has a monitoring system they sell for the 912 , they say the probe should be 4 1/2 inches from the exhaust valve , and give a warning at 1700 deg , and a alarm at 1800deg . This is where I came up with my numbers , everyone I have talked to , that is suppose to know all about 912s are not concerned about EGT . Hope this helps R Harris MK3 SN M233 N912RH > > Can anyone tell me what the normal high end EGT should be on a Rotax > 912UL. I have heard opinions from 1350 to 1600. I have searched the > manuals from beginning to end and can't find any reference to the proper > numbers. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Paul Riedlinger > paulried(at)ornaprod.com > The Ornamental Group Of Companies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BICUM(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Archive not working?
Hello list, Anyone else having problems with the matronics archive web page? I'm getting the equivalent of a busy signal. I'm trying to research the best best to purchase an oil pressure sender for a 912. See my tale of woe below if interested. I have had a string of bad luck with the oil pressure sender on my 912. First off, on my first static engine run the plastic knurled knob that holds the instrument wire on came off, hit the prop and shot back through the fabric on my cage. So now I get to learn how to patch areothane. This has been a real learning experience to say the least. So being smarter than the average bear, I decided to switch to a nyloc metric nut instead of the plastic knob. In my effort to make sure it was tight and had a couple of threads showing to make sure the nyloc had a bite, I broke off the threaded terminal on the sender. I lost my religion (only for a brief second). So now I am shopping for a new sender. Have you ever had to replace the oil pressure sender on your old 912? I pretty sure I can find a VDO (0 -10 bar) 1/8 NPT somewhere in Baton Rouge. The only question I have is on the original one there was a brass cup fitted on the engine side of the sender. Not sure why that is there and what purpose is serves. the Leading Edge catalog has them priced at close to $200.00. I know it is a $40.00 part if I can find the right one. Any help, again, is always appreciated. John Bickham St. Francisville, LA Mark III - 912 N308JB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Archive not working?
Not to make fun of your unfortunate and expensive mishap... But simply to add fuel to the fire of "2-stroke vs. 4-stroke..." What's an oil pressure sender? What's oil pressure? My ol' 532 ain't got any of those things... And now that I've made you mad... go to http://www.summitracing.com go to search, under parts, select gauges, senders & acc. under manufacturers, select VDO They sell a 1/8" NPT unit for $23.95, Part # VDO-360003 Phone # 1-800-230-3030 You could probably talk to them on the phone and see if it sounds like it would fit, or just buy it and try it, see if it works. Good luck. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >I'm trying to research the best best to purchase an oil pressure sender for a >912. > >So now I am shopping for a new sender. Have you ever had to replace the oil >pressure sender on your old 912? I pretty sure I can find a VDO (0 -10 bar) >1/8 NPT somewhere in Baton Rouge. The only question I have is on the >original one there was a brass cup fitted on the engine side of the sender. >Not sure why that is there and what purpose is serves. the Leading Edge >catalog has them priced at close to $200.00. I know it is a $40.00 part if I >can find the right one. > >Any help, again, is always appreciated. > >John Bickham >St. Francisville, LA >Mark III - 912 >N308JB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: 912.....
> It's my understanding that this is a result of the different characteristics > of water and air cooled engines. Water cooling is a really poor substitute for upper cylinder lubrication.......... ; ) > It uses > less than a quart per 3000 miles. Saab started using a little more, WAY > over 100,000 miles. The fact that they do use some oil is good. Using none is very much worse. J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: Bob Singer <hp2693(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Rotax alternative
I am looking into the BMW R-100 motorcycle engine. I have read that they are being used a little in England and more in South Africa. It makes 74 hp at around 5400 rpm and weighs in at about 155 pounds complete. The good part is that the motorcycle transmission is a bolt on unit so you don't have to mess with that. With an adaptor, the Rotax "C" gearbox bolts up to it and you don't need any special "tricks" to get it to work on a pusher type ultralight. They've been run hard on motorcycles for years. I have a local machine shop available to me and as soon as I can locate an engine, I will go to work on the adaptor. One is available through a web site for $450 and the coupler for $450 but I think it can be made cheaper. Bob prospective Slingshot builder Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 12/09/00
From: Pam & Scott Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
on 12/10/00 1:58 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server at kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote: > ____________ > From: N51SK(at)aol.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 12/07/00 > > > In a message dated 12/8/00 2:00:56 AM Central Standard Time, > kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > >> Hi, eh! (for those down south that's "Hi Y'all") > Hey Scott....fax me a pastie will ya? > Steve > Hi Steve I got your pasty here, ready to fax it. But I discovered I don't have your fax number, so I'm eating it as I type. Boy, is it good! When the weather's nasty, eat a pasty. Where have you had a pasty before? Have you been up in the U.P. recently. Where are you from? Gotta go! Cold weather flyers I have a number of question that was asked of me what I do to my 912, and my skis etc. I wrote it down I'll get my wife to type it. LATER Scott Trask Iron Mt. MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Geezer810(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: (no subject)
Please unsubscribe Harry Wingert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan McBride" <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Electric problem
Date: Dec 10, 2000
I'm putting together a Mark III with a 912 UL, and I've been following Bob Nuckoll's suggested wiring scheme, with the overvoltage module and relay. I've pretty much followed Figure Z-7 in his appendix, except instead of using a 22AWG fuse link to provide power to the alternator side of the master switch I just used a place from the bus. I used a 5amp fuse, and what's started to happen is that after turning on and off the master four or five times, the fuse blows when the master is switched off. I happened to notice it because I was standing right over the bus when I switched off the master and I saw the flash when the fuse blew. Is a five amp fuse too small, or is something happening that shouldn't? I'm using a 5amp circuit breaker between the bus and the switch, like in the drawing, but it has never opened. I'd like to make sure everything is ok before I just use a bigger fuse. Thanks in advance. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: stuff
In a message dated 12/9/00 11:46:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, possums(at)mindspring.com writes: << Kolb-List message posted by: Possum > El Paso >> >Are Naugas like snipes....I admit to almost hunting for them once as a >child....I was told that I almost caught one too. >GeoR38 > The Society for the Preservation of the Nauga 60 Hunters Ct. Amelia, Ohio 45102 >> Hey...wait a minute....that's close to home ....I ....think......GeoR38 do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
In a message dated 12/10/00 1:39:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, richard(at)BCChapel.org writes: << voprop mounting bolts are torqued @ 200 inch pounds. Did he use 200 foot pounds instead? (Ouch!) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Can anyone please tell me the proper torque for those 8.8 metric bolts as >used on the Ivo prop? My Wingman somehow over-torqued & broke one. $6 >each...... > >Shack >> Could that possibly be 12 times too high?? GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Experimenter
Date: Dec 10, 2000
I had misplaced the June and August 2000 Experimenter magazines. June 2000 had the Mark IIIXtra on the cover and August 2000 had an extensive article about the plane. I emailed EAA a request to order back issues and Mary Jones from EAA emailed back that they had extra issues laying around and that she would sent them to me for gratis. Sure enough, just a few days later, they arrived in the mail the same day as the December 2000 issue. The December issue has an article on building forms for bending tubing. I don't know if it is available online or not. It gives a mathmatical formula for making a form to bend the tubing around. He recommends using sand inside the tubing before bending, if the diameter to thickness (D/t) is over 15. It looks like a good method for construction, but I don't believe the curves on the Kolb are critical enought to need the mathmetical formula, just the general idea and approximate radii. I am picking up kit #1 for my Mark IIIXtra next week. I have a question about flattening the ends of the tubing. Using a vise seems rather slow. Has anyone found something more efficient. I have thoughts of altering an old shotshell reloader that I no longer use to flatten the ends. I assume it doesn't take a great force to flatten the tubing, and I could use the lever on this press to replace the vise. I would somehow construct a stop to limit the cam travel to 3/16" above the base. I live only 60 miles from the Kolb factory. They have asked if they can visit me on occasion and get my input on the building process. They said that my feedback would help them improve things. I told them that I would be honored to do that. Also, I hope that they will give me feedback about my construction. I just warned them that my construction will be slow since I have only a few hours a week to work on my plane. They sounded OK with that. Maybe they will even fly their factory plane into my 600' grass strip sometime. Clay Stuart Danville KY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 12/09/00
From: "Lawrence M. Rice" <tailwind5(at)juno.com>
Don't think I'd use naugahide for a radiator cover that might go through the prop, that stuff's awful dense! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
In a message dated 12/10/00 5:19:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, GeoR38(at)aol.com writes: << << voprop mounting bolts are torqued @ 200 inch pounds. Did he use 200 foot pounds instead? (Ouch!) >> No, he used a torque wrench he was unfamiliar with and expected a LOUD click- he didn't hear the soft click. By the way, all the torque wrenches at our field read "Foot pounds" only; do you divide inch pounds by 12 to get foot pounds, and do you multiply foot pounds by 12 to get inch pounds? Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: To EIS or not To EIS
> It is not about personal choice, it is about lowering risk, and increasing > safety. > John Jung John and Kolbers: Been out of the loop for the last four days. Trying to catch up on a wash tub full of emails. I have heard a lot of real good comments about digital instruments, particularly EIS. Everything has been pro. I have yet to hear anything on the con side of the discussion. If there is nothing to discuss that is negative with regard to the EIS, then undoubtedly you all have discovered a perfect product. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
One pound of force applied to the end of a 12" wrench would give you 12 inch pounds, or one foot pound of torque. Therefore: one foot pound equals 12 inch pounds, 6 foot pounds equals 72 inch pounds, 12 foot pounds equals 144 inch pounds, etc. (I wasn't sure I remembered it right, so I looked it up in one of Bingelis's books) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >By the way, all the torque wrenches at our field read "Foot pounds" only; do >you divide inch pounds by 12 to get foot pounds, and do you multiply foot >pounds by 12 to get inch pounds? > >Shack >FS I >SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Heaters again
Date: Dec 10, 2000
I have just completed a heater that works off the cooling air from the shroud. It uses a 2 1/4 inch "scat" tube to carry the heat to the cabin, has a extruded hinge from Aircraft Spruce, and is controllable from the cabin to regulate the heat entering the cabin. It will not overheat the engine, since you can configure it to allow all the cooling air to escape if need be. If anyone is interested I will forward pictures of the heater and the tool required to make it. Larry K.falls,Or ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Heaters again
In a message dated 12/10/00 10:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, lcottrel(at)kfalls.net writes: << If anyone is interested I will forward pictures of the heater and the tool required to make it. >> Larry, I would be interested. Shack FS I S C ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Powersporte engine
> 4 strokes are great. Two strokes are satisfactory, but you gotta' treat > them right. > > Richard Pike Richard and Gang: Rotax 2 cycle engines as well as 4 cycle engines are extremely reliable. Very seldom, in my limited knowledge, does an engine fail catastrophically. My own experience: PTO crankshaft bearing failure resulting in engine (Cuyuna)seizure (1985). Wristpin bearing failure (Rotax 447 cageless bearings). Flew it and the Firestar from Lakeland to home strip, low power, but still flying. 582 seizure, act of God. Haven't really figured that one out yet, but has to do with going from full power climb to cruise, thermostat opening, cooling cylinder liners quicker than the pistons, running out of cyl wall clearance. Locked up tight (1993) after flying the same procedures for the last 225 hours. Who knows? The reason I listed the above experiences is to point out how realiable these two strokes are. Of the three engine failures, only two put me on the ground, "right now." These failures were most likely defective parts and/or design. Now, I have had a bunch of engine failures that put me on the ground. But most were caused by operator problems. In the early days we had a big learning curve on a lot of things. Inverted Cuyunas spit plug wires. I didn't know that until mine dropped one and put me on the ground. Paper element fuel filters will plug with a few drops of water in them. I had 5 or 6 engine failures on takeoff from my strip in the same afternoon until I finally figured out what the problem was. Shorted wires. Plugged primer bulbs with silicone seal balls. Pin holes in "pulse lines." Broken throttle levers. Water in fuel. Dirt and debris in fuel. Spark plug electrode seperating in a high priced NGK B8EV over Grand Island, NY, resulting in engine failure, broken landing gear and socket. Hitting the mag switch while wearing mittens and not realizing it until too late. And there's a lot more if I could remember them. The 912 served me well for 1,135 hours of hard flying and hard performance. I had two engine failures with it. First was a lot of water in the fuel. Second was a lot of dirt and debris in the fuel, clogging the fuel filter. So, you see, the 2 and 4 strokes that I have used since 1984, have a good track record. Most of the failures were my fault. I read the FAA Accident Briefs on the internet every morning. A lot of accidents are caused by engine failures in GA airplanes. A lot by fuel starvation. A lot by catastrophic failures of cyls, crank shafts, magneto's. Most, by far, are broken landing gear or landing gear up. I know about broken landing gear. :-) In the early days of Sun and Fun, and Oshkosh, we had a lot of engine failures during the shows. Now a days, maybe one every once in a flyin, but not very often. Just some thoughts to share with my friends, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GDLedbette(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
I just bought a torque wrench calibrated in in-lbs at Sears. It was on sale for about $50. Gene Ledbetter Cincinnati, OH Firefly 00-2-00018, both canopies, big wheels and brakes, Ivo 2 blade ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
> Most think the hallmark of a quality four stroke aviation engine is > it's lack of oil use. Not so. Accellerated upper cylinder wear will > quickly negate the savings in added oil. Just ask yer friendly > Continental or Lycoming repair shop.... > J.Baker Hi Jim and Gang: Maybe that is true for Continental and Lycoming engines. For 912's it doesn't seem to be a problem. Eric Tucker shared this tid bit with me last January at the 912 School in Lucedale, Ms: "Rotax has yet to sell a replacement cylinder for a 912. Some of the 912s have over 3,000 hours on them. This is in 11 years and over 7,000 912s produced and being used. That was as of Jan 2000." I can understand why Cont and Lyc make that claim. They both use a lot of oil. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Heaters again
In a message dated 12/10/00 10:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, lcottrel(at)kfalls.net writes: << I have just completed a heater that works off the cooling air from the shroud. It uses a 2 1/4 inch "scat" tube to carry the heat to the cabin, has a extruded hinge from Aircraft Spruce, and is controllable from the cabin to regulate the heat entering the cabin. It will not overheat the engine, since you can configure it to allow all the cooling air to escape if need be. If anyone is interested I will forward pictures of the heater and the tool required to make it. Larry K.falls,Or >> Hey Larry....maybe that will lengthen my flying season here in Akron, Oh ....please forward to GeoR38(at)aol.com ....and thanks in advance ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Prop Bolt Torque on Ivo
In a message dated 12/10/00 10:39:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard(at)BCChapel.org writes: << Therefore: one foot pound equals 12 inch pounds, 6 foot pounds equals 72 inch pounds, 12 foot pounds equals 144 inch pounds, etc. (I wasn't sure I remembered it right, so I looked it up in one of Bingelis's books) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> you're right .... I hope!....cause that's what I've been teachin to adults.... GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Powersporte engine
In a message dated 12/10/00 10:57:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes: << I read the FAA Accident Briefs on the internet every morning. A lot of accidents are caused by engine failures in GA airplanes. A lot by fuel starvation. A lot by catastrophic failures of cyls, crank shafts, magneto's. Most, by far, are broken landing gear or landing gear up. I know about broken landing gear. :-) In the early days of Sun and Fun, and Oshkosh, we had a lot of engine failures during the shows. Now a days, maybe one every once in a flyin, but not very often. Just some thoughts to share with my friends, john h >> Good post John....it appears you should write a book....I wanna buy it! GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Subject: Re: Heaters again
In a message dated 12/11/00 12:09:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, GeoR38(at)aol.com writes: << If anyone is interested I will forward pictures of the heater and the tool required to make it. >> Hey, Lar!! Neat heater, but I don't know what I'm looking at [the tool]. What does it do? Shack FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Heaters again
Date: Dec 10, 2000
The tool will make the body of the heater, bending the flat piece of 7 1/2 x12 inch flat alum into the c shape. It will also bend the cover piece too. If this isn't explained in the letter to Ron, Perhaps I had better go back and do so. Larry ---------- > From: HShack(at)aol.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Heaters again > Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 9:20 PM > > > In a message dated 12/11/00 12:09:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, GeoR38(at)aol.com > writes: > > << If anyone is interested I will forward pictures of the heater > and the tool required to make it. > >> > > Hey, Lar!! Neat heater, but I don't know what I'm looking at [the tool]. > What does it do? > > Shack > FS I > SC > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Maybe we should look at it from the other way 'round. Not so much how much the air cooled needs, but how much it wastes. I think it's pretty well established that modern auto engines use very little oil. My T'Bird is certainly not unique, according to other people I've talked to. Obviously that little bit is sufficient, because they almost universally go 150,000 or more miles before needing rings, etc. The Lycomings and Continentals, ( and VW's ) use far more oil, due to burning it, than they really need for lubrication. Anybody ?? Big Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912..... > > > It's my understanding that this is a result of the different characteristics > > of water and air cooled engines. > > Water cooling is a really poor substitute for upper cylinder > lubrication.......... ; ) > > > > It uses > > less than a quart per 3000 miles. Saab started using a little more, WAY > > over 100,000 miles. > > The fact that they do use some oil is good. Using none is very > much worse. > > > J.Baker > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Heaters again
> Please foward pictures of your heater. > Thanks > Jim Ballenger Jim and Gang: Not to take any smoke away from the aircraft heaters, and there are several discribed on the list in the last couple years, a short time ago John Russell, Sling Shot driver/builder, posted a msg about his new Chilli Vest. It is in the Kolb List Archives: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=24054508?KEYS=heated_vest?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=14333212500?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Kim Steiner up in Saskatchewan, Canada, sent this post reference electric heated seat cushion: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=23378641?KEYS=heated_clothing?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=14311010009?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Dell Vinal discussed making some homemade electric gear to stay warm: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=23371058?KEYS=heated_clothing?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=14311010009?SHOWBUTTONS=YES I have received my Chilli Vest that I intend to use as my aircraft heater, just like John Russell is doing now. I talked to John this morning. He is still happy with the performance of his Chilli Vest. He has not shivered nor have his teeth chattered since he started flying with it last month. Can not wait to try mine out. It is very thin, light, and looks professionally done. Draws very little current, based on my test in the basement with the 5 amp Quick Start foil battery. Saw very little battery deletion, about .5 volt in 20 to 30 minutes use, most with the system adjusted to max performance. The major advantage of the vest is its simple installation. Two wires to your battery, or 12V DC regulated aircraft power. I believe it will work without a battery installed. It should. Draws less power than a radio and electric fuel pump. I operated these two items, plus strobe lights on the power system of my old 447 without battery. The more items one installs on an engine and aircraft, the more "stuff" one must fly with. The more "stuff" one flies with the more stuff to go wrong. :-) My own thoughts about the matter of staying warm and flying an unheated aircraft. I look forward being able to stay comfortable in below freezing weather next summer on my flight north. You better believe I will have back up clothing on board to supplement the electric heat should it go belly up. :-) Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2000
From: Mike Housewert <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Heaters again
Hi Guys, I took this heater (or lack of heat) seriously and decided to go to Florida. Decided last Wednesday, got some cheap tickets, and am now walking on the beaches of Marco Island, temperature today was 80. The only problem is that I do not have may airplane. I told my wife today would have been perfect. I called back to my son in Northern Illinois (near Rockford) and it is a blizzard. Ten inches on some on the ground, still snowing like crazy, wind chill 30-40 below. I really feel bad that I am here - that is -without my plane. If I had the plane here I would not have to worry about a heater. Maybe AC? Sorry, just had to rub it in a little. I will be back to the frozen tundra late next Sunday. Mike H. ------Original Message------ From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Sent: December 11, 2000 10:47:31 PM GMT Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Heaters again > Please foward pictures of your heater. > Thanks > Jim Ballenger Jim and Gang: Not to take any smoke away from the aircraft heaters, and there are several discribed on the list in the last couple years, a short time ago John Russell, Sling Shot driver/builder, posted a msg about his new Chilli Vest. It is in the Kolb List Archives: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=24054508?KEYS=heated_vest?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=14333212500?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Kim Steiner up in Saskatchewan, Canada, sent this post reference electric heated seat cushion: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=23378641?KEYS=heated_clothing?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=14311010009?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Dell Vinal discussed making some homemade electric gear to stay warm: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=23371058?KEYS=heated_clothing?LISTNAME=Kolb?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=14311010009?SHOWBUTTONS=YES I have received my Chilli Vest that I intend to use as my aircraft heater, just like John Russell is doing now. I talked to John this morning. He is still happy with the performance of his Chilli Vest. He has not shivered nor have his teeth chattered since he started flying with it last month. Can not wait to try mine out. It is very thin, light, and looks professionally done. Draws very little current, based on my test in the basement with the 5 amp Quick Start foil battery. Saw very little battery deletion, about .5 volt in 20 to 30 minutes use, most with the system adjusted to max performance. The major advantage of the vest is its simple installation. Two wires to your battery, or 12V DC regulated aircraft power. I believe it will work without a battery installed. It should. Draws less power than a radio and electric fuel pump. I operated these two items, plus strobe lights on the power system of my old 447 without battery. The more items one installs on an engine and aircraft, the more "stuff" one must fly with. The more "stuff" one flies with the more stuff to go wrong. :-) My own thoughts about the matter of staying warm and flying an unheated aircraft. I look forward being able to stay comfortable in below freezing weather next summer on my flight north. You better believe I will have back up clothing on board to supplement the electric heat should it go belly up. :-) Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duncan McBride" <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Aeroelectric response
Date: Dec 11, 2000
Hey, Bob Nuckolls was quick with some help with my blowing fuse phenomena. Turns out a fusible link is less quick to blow than the fuse, and I'd need something strong enough to force the breaker to open anyway. But it might be that the overvoltage relay coil is causing enough surge to reach the fuse limit when the power is cut. I'll try a diode as he recommends for other contactors and see if that works, but change out the fuse for a link anyway. His catalog is back up on his web site BTW. And there is a new list on the matronics server dedicated to the Aeroelectric Connection. All this has been a tremendous help to me, so if you have the plane nearly built but are wondering how to hook it all up, you should check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2000
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
"kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
Subject: egt 912 ul
paul and the list the egt temps on the 912 are as follows noninal 800 c 1470 f max 850 c 1560 f the temps listed come out of the 912 ul installation manual [ 10.1 ] the readings should be taken 2.76 inches down stream of the exh.flange also in the operation manual ( i think that is where i found it ) it says upt o 1620 f during take off for very short periods. if you would like chapter and verse. let me know and i will look it up boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Subject: 912 Mark-III For Sale
Date: Dec 12, 2000
Beautifully customized Rotax 912 powered Mark-III for sale. Located central PA Call Sam: (717) 483-6254 asking $23,000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: foamed trailer
Date: Dec 12, 2000
Hi, As I mentioned earlier I was having my trailer foamed inside. The guy charged me $1.00 a foot for a total of 237.00 I guess that isn't too bad considering. It will help with the heat in the summer too. Since I used the painted "roofing" tin it really did not condense water like some of them, but the heat reduction would be worth it alone. Larry, KFalls,Or ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2000
Subject: Re: 912.....
> Maybe that is true for Continental and Lycoming engines. > For 912's it doesn't seem to be a problem. Unless the laws of physics and metallurgy have been suspended for the Rotax four strokes, the same principles apply. > "Rotax has yet to sell a replacement cylinder for a 912. > Some of the 912s have over 3,000 hours on them. This is in > 11 years and over 7,000 912s produced and being used. That > was as of Jan 2000." Which is indeed a fine stat but tells nothing of the actual oil use of those engines involved. Dollar to a doughnut they use some oil and it doesn't have to be massive quantities, either. > I can understand why Cont and Lyc make that claim. They > both use a lot of oil. :-) Sure do because that's the way they're set up, by design..... J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2000
Subject: Re: 912.....
> Maybe we should look at it from the other way 'round. Not so much how much > the air cooled needs, but how much it wastes. snip.... > The Lycomings and Continentals, ( and > VW's ) use far more oil, due to burning it, than they really need for > lubrication. Has more to do with piston clearance and design parameters. The Lyc and Cont are designed to use oil, not much mind you, but they aren't designed to use zero oil. The VWs I've owned were not really any worse in oil useage than the water cooled Subarus, essentially the same sort of flat-four engine design. They were very much worse in bearing wear because of the lack of an oil filter which eventually opened up all the clearances much faster than could have been the case with a filter (Ford tests showed an 800% improvement in bearing wear just by using a filter...). J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
> > I can understand why Cont and Lyc make that claim. They > > both use a lot of oil. :-) > > Sure do because that's the way they're set up, by design..... > > J.Baker Jim and Gang: When I left home on my 1994 flight, I had a spare quart of oil on board. By the time I got to North Pole, Alaska, I had flown 100 hours. It was time for an oil change. I bought two qts of Mobile I Synthetic to go with the quart I brought with me. Never had to add oil between 100 hour change intervals for the first 1,000 hours. Based on the 95 hours I have on the 912S, won't be necessary to take spare oil on XCs. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, piston to cylinder clearance on the 912 is .001 inch. That is pretty snug. The 912 is a clean engine, seldom will one find one that has an oil leak. I reckon the 912 is designed not to use a lot of oil. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Its good to be back!
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Kolbers, I have been off the air due to on going technical problems with my computer and ISP. Tried to go with a new ISP but failed to get connected through two weeks of trying. Finally gave up yesterday and went back with Alltel, still have some bugs to work out but managed to get online tonight. My Mark-3 is progressing, got the fuel system and master cylinder installed. Decided to remove the floor trays for trimming and hard coat anodizing, should improve their looks and durability. I am in the middle of fabricating the door latches, should be done by the end of the week. Sould be removing the enclosure soon so covering prep can ensue. Hope all is well with you all. Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
Subject: MEK proof markers?
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Does anybody have any suggestions on a way to mark powdercoated tubes that will not wipe off with MEK? I need to mark the location of my enclosures P-clamp mounts so that I know where to slot the fabric for the clamps after the fabric is glued to the fuselage. I figure I'll be able to see the marks on the tubes through the unpainted fabric and cut the slots accordingly. Thanks, Denny rowedl(at)alltel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Oil useage
Date: Dec 13, 2000
. "Correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, piston to cylinder clearance on the 912 is .001 inch. That is pretty snug. The 912 is a clean engine, seldom will one find one that has an oil leak. I reckon the 912 is designed not to use a lot of oil. :-) john h" Yes. I think water cooled engines are usually tighter than air cooled engines which have to account for a much greater temperature range and thermal expansion. Rody in Cincinnati ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: 912 Mark-III For Sale
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Wow --that's alot of money. For $23,000 one could choose alot of planes or several different styles of planes. Dale Seitzer -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Souder Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:06 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Mark-III For Sale Beautifully customized Rotax 912 powered Mark-III for sale. Located central PA Call Sam: (717) 483-6254 asking $23,000 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 912 Mark-III For Sale
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Yes, it is a lot of money, but he's probably got close to $30,000 into it, plus all the labor of building it. Looks like kits are a labor of love, cause you sure won't get rich building them. Big Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Seitzer" <dale(at)gmada.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 5:45 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 912 Mark-III For Sale > > Wow --that's alot of money. For $23,000 one could choose alot of planes or several different styles of planes. Dale Seitzer > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Souder > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:06 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: 912 Mark-III For Sale > > > Beautifully customized Rotax 912 powered Mark-III for sale. > > Located central PA > Call Sam: (717) 483-6254 > asking $23,000 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: aquila33(at)webtv.net (dann mann)
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Subject: Re: MEK proof markers?
Use a pencil or epoxy paint with a small brush. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Oil useage
> Yes. I think water cooled engines are usually tighter than air cooled > engines which have to account for a much > greater temperature range and thermal expansion. > > Rody in Cincinnati Rody and Gang: Rotax wanted an aircooled engine, but discovered they couldn't keep CHT in the green without the addition of water cooling. So the 912 is a combination of liquid cooled heads and aircooled cylinders. The greatest overall cooling factor is oil cooling. The close tolerances between cylinder and piston are the result of using NIKASIL coating and no steel or cast iron cylinder liners. I previously guessed at the new "piston to cylinder" clearance, .001 inch. I was wrong. The book indicates .000 to .0008 for new assembly. Now that is close. :-) The Rotax Operators Manual indicates acceptable oil consumption for the 912 is 1 quart in 10 hours. Based on my personal experience operating 912/912S, if my engine burned 1 quart or oil in 10 hours, I would be a little concerned. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Volum" <PVolum(at)etsmiami.com>
Subject: 912 Mark-III For Sale
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Is it? If you have a strong stomach, think about how much your plane has REALLY cost you bottom line after all the trips to Home Depot, orders from Aircraft Spruce, etc... I bought Kolb's old demo plane (Fat Albert) in flying condition at Sun-N-Fun two years ago for $17,500 and thought I wouldn't have to spend too much on it to get it completely restored. That was about $7,000 ago (not counting $2,500 for a trailer and not counting the value of my time) and my shopping list still includes "little" things like an ELT, Nav/COM, Mode C Transponder... Depending on what Dennis' friend's plane includes and what condition it is in, $23,000 could very well be a bargain. If Dennis says it's "beautifully customized", you can believe it is. I think that any time you buy a plane or a boat, even if you pay cash up front in full, it is still just a "down-payment". Peter Wow --that's alot of money. For $23,000 one could choose alot of planes or several different styles of planes. Dale Seitzer Beautifully customized Rotax 912 powered Mark-III for sale. Located central PA Call Sam: (717) 483-6254 asking $23,000 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cockpit Heater
I think I could make a heater using a small propane tank & torch attachment w/ auto start (craftsman) ....the tank is small but it will burn for a long...long time...,some ducting & some kinda box to contain the flame using some sorta ram air control and alota tinkering.... I live in Minnesota so I've been giving it some thought, I fly Cessna during the winter months , because my FS II isn't finished yet , (kit # 2 was just shipped.......Yippie !!!! ) Well, Gotta Fly... From: "larrybiglar" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: brrrrrrr Guess I'd better stop bitching about my hot summers. You guys really get it bad in the winter, while we sit here with 60 - 70 degree days, and 40 - 50 deg. nights. Toasty Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "slyck" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:13 AM Subject: Kolb-List: brrrrrrr > > ---------------speaking of heaters---they don't make em good > enough for this stuff. Good day for a project if you have a nice shop. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
Mike Pierzina wrote: > I think I could make a heater using a small propane tank & torch attachment w/ auto start (craftsman) ....the tank is small but it will burn for a long...long time... Mike and Gang: Might keep you hotter than you desire. That torch would make a good pilot light for five or more gallons of gasoline. :-( The main reason I have a master switch is to prevent, as much as possible, something igniting gasoline, should I break my airplane. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clive Hatcher" <clive_hatcher(at)lineone.net>
Subject: Rotax alternative
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Bob and Gang, There are a few BMW conversions in the UK, I think that they usually go for the R-110 But the conversion would be the same. I have seen no problems reported with reliability but the air cooling has given a few initial headaches on some installations. Nothing that careful ducting hasn't sorted out as far as I am aware. There is a company producing a complete conversion kit and if you like I will try to get some details. Clive. Mk III / 582 UK > -----Original Message----- > > I am looking into the BMW R-100 motorcycle engine. I have read that > they are being used a little in England and more in South > Africa. It > makes 74 hp at around 5400 rpm and weighs in at about 155 pounds > complete. The good part is that the motorcycle > transmission is a bolt > on unit so you don't have to mess with that. With an > adaptor, the Rotax > "C" gearbox bolts up to it and you don't need any special > "tricks" to > get it to work on a pusher type ultralight. They've been > run hard on > motorcycles for years. I have a local machine shop > available to me and > as soon as I can locate an engine, I will go to work on the adaptor. > One is available through a web site for $450 and the > coupler for $450 > but I think it can be made cheaper. > Bob > prospective Slingshot builder > > Why pay for something you could get for free? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timandjan(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Subject: Re: MEK proof markers?
In a message dated 12/13/00 2:05:24 AM, rowedl(at)alltel.net writes: Does anybody have any suggestions on a way to mark powdercoated tubes that will not wipe off with MEK? I need to mark the location of my enclosures P-clamp mounts so that I know where to slot the fabric for the clamps after the fabric is glued to the fuselage. I figure I'll be able to see the marks on the tubes through the unpainted fabric and cut the slots accordingly. Thanks, Denny>> How about wax markers!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: "bob n." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Glove heaters
Saw something at Costco that may be interesting: box of chemically heated hand gloves, 40 pcs (20 pair?) $20. Uses a type of catalytic reaction. Gets to 135F. Don't know how long a glove keeps on heating. bn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: MEK proof markers?
Date: Dec 13, 2000
Denny when I was recovering an the fuselage of a Champ I used red thread to mark in a similar situation, and pulled the treat very easily at the proper time. Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: <Timandjan(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MEK proof markers? > > > In a message dated 12/13/00 2:05:24 AM, rowedl(at)alltel.net writes: > > > Does anybody have any suggestions on a way to mark powdercoated tubes > that will not wipe off with MEK? > I need to mark the location of my enclosures P-clamp mounts so that I > know where to slot the fabric for the clamps after the fabric is glued > to the fuselage. I figure I'll be able to see the marks on the tubes > through the unpainted fabric and cut the slots accordingly. > Thanks, > Denny>> > > How about wax markers!!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
>I think I could make a heater using a small propane tank & torch attachment w/ auto start (craftsman) ....the tank is small but it will burn for a long...long time.. You bet! Gee! And to think I always worry about smoking on long trips! P.S. I always throw the butts out the left side and down - 503 dual carb. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ashley & Margaret Johnston" <Jabiru.nz(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Modern Engines
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Todays questions and opinions expressed in the comparisons of Rotax and 0360's have missed to mention the very successfull Jabiru Engines that are a meaningfull attempt to bridge the gap. That is to produce an Engine of modern technology yet retain the basics, as near as possible, to the traditional power and torque requirements and yet retaining the direct drive principle. To this end the Jabiru 3300 cc-- 120 hp, is approximately similar weight to a fully equipped Rotax 912. The Jabiru 2200cc 80 hp being 50 lbs lighter than a fully equipped 912. With the advent of Global Marketing and the Internet, the US market place is now able to take full advantage of proper competitive marketing, backed by factory warranty (two hundred hours or one) year and parts service. Presently I am able to deliver these engines to most Customs destinations Worldwide (excluding UK) Current prices are:- Jabiru 3300cc 120 hp @ $9670 US Jabiru 2200cc 80 hp @ $6630 US Other products A large range of FFKits POA Microair Radios and Transponders are available (with Engine purchases only) POA Kindest regards and a very Merry Christmas Ashley Johnston Jabiru New Zealand (064) 3 302 7197 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
Date: Dec 14, 2000
The ducting I put on mine FireStar works pretty good. Don't know about sub zero weather, but with an outside temp of 36, my cabin stays about 70. Of course this is dependent on how hard the engine is working, and those long descents can get chilly. Dave El Paso -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cockpit Heater > > >Mike Pierzina wrote: > >> I think I could make a heater using a small propane tank & torch attachment w/ auto start (craftsman) ....the tank is small but it will burn for a long...long time... > >Mike and Gang: > >Might keep you hotter than you desire. That torch would >make a good pilot light for five or more gallons of >gasoline. :-( > >The main reason I have a master switch is to prevent, as >much as possible, something igniting gasoline, should I >break my airplane. > >Take care, > >john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
Of > course this is dependent on how hard the engine is working, and those long > descents can get chilly. > Dave Dave and Gang: Wouldn't that be true for any type of heater being driven by an air cooled engine? The 912 cools off fast at power settings below my normal cruise of 5,000 rpm. However, if what my buddy John Russell says is true, then that little electric vest will be efficient at all power settings, if it doesn't electrocute me. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Russell" <jr(at)rometool.com>
Subject: Heater
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Hey Gang I feel like I know all you guys on the list, I have been lurking out here for probably over a year. I fly a 912s slingshot out of NW Georgia, I am by nature, a cold natured person, I wanted to fly some this winter, so I looked at some options as far as a heater, what I ended up with is the electric vest John Hauck has mentioned. It's kinda pricy, but this is one of the best investments I have made. What I wear on a day that is around 20 deg., I wear the vest over a sweat shirt then I will wear a light weight jacket (windproof works best to help hold heat in), the heated vest actually helps warm the blood, keeping my feet and hands warmer than if I did not wear the vest. Before I had the vest, I would bundle up with layers of clothes to keep warm, almost to the point it was hard to manuver my body around. I looked at heating the cabin, which would be nice, but for me I really did not want all the added stuff required to have heat. Oh well, I just felt compelled to share my experiance with the vest. John R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: Bob Singer <hp2693(at)netzero.net>
Subject: BMW site
The site I found the BMW engine info is "airdale.com/bmw_engines.htm". The person to contact is Steve Winder Bob Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RWilton101(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Subject: Re: BMW site
In a message dated 12/14/00 11:11:11 AM Central Standard Time, hp2693(at)netzero.net writes: > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Re: BMW site
I have been considering ALL my options and have considered the BMW engine, it looks real good. It is a proven reliable engine in a motorcycle. There are a few other sites that have a reduction unit that is designed for this engine. They will sell a complete package including a prop. The final concern that changed my mind against the BMW is that it would be a engine that would need to run at high RPMs and power kind of like a Rotax 2 stroke with twice as many moving parts. The BMW in a motor cycle doesn't see high RPM and power for any lenght of time. It MIGHT be a reliable engine in this mode but would I be any happier with a screaming 4 stroke than I would be with a screaming 2 stroke??? I'm currently looking for a reduction drive for my VW that will allow me to turn the same 2500-3600 engine RPMs but turn a three bladed 72" prop at app. 2000 RPM. Rick Neilsen VW powered Kolb MKIII Lansing Michigan >>> hp2693(at)netzero.net 12/14/00 12:11PM >>> The site I found the BMW engine info is "airdale.com/bmw_engines.htm". The person to contact is Steve Winder Bob Why pay for something you could get for free? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
Date: Dec 14, 2000
---------- > From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cockpit Heater > Date: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:32 AM > > > Of > > course this is dependent on how hard the engine is working, and those long > > descents can get chilly. > > Dave > > > Dave and Gang: > > Wouldn't that be true for any type of heater being driven by > an air cooled engine? John and gang, Well it would be true if the heater is powered by the outside air going over the muffler. However the one that I built is powered by the belt driven fan that cools the cylinder heads. That does not stop even when the engine is idled. It is slowed but still not stopped. As for the vest, I am sure that it is a great help, and if I lived in the deep south I am sure that it would be enough. My poor ole butt and legs get pretty chilled even if the rest of me is warm. More than once I worried that I would be too stiff to make my landings properly. I just picked up a "Dr Shoals" back massager with infra red heat. I intended to give it to the "ole Lady" for christmas, but am at the moment reconsidering. It is 12 volt and might be handy if the stewardess was too busy to give me a inflight massage. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: antennas
Date: Dec 14, 2000
The fella that is sort of my flying mentor has been working on a RV 4, putting the finishing touches on it. It is almost completed, and is going to be a beauty. Anyway the subject of a swr meter to check his radio came up. He wanted to use the meter that the Railroad uses to check it. That was not possibile, so I got a chart for him on what lengths to cut the antenna for which ever freq. he wanted. What is new about this discussion is the antenna that he got from Aircraft Spruce. It is a copper strip that has a conector on it that is applied like a piece of tape to the bubble of the cockpit. You just cut it off with a pair of scissors, tape it where you want and you are in business. For instance 22 1/4 for 124mhz which would be the center of most of the aircraft freq. here. If the reception on the ground and in the garage is any indication it will serve him quite well. Oh I almost forgot- cost is $12.00 Larry, Kfalls,Or ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
> As for the vest, I am > sure that it is a great help, and if I lived in the deep south I am sure > that it would be enough. > Larry Larry and Gang: Living in the "Heart of Dixie" is the reason us southern boys need all the heat we can get. We're accustomed to living a leisure life in cut-off Levi's, T-shirts, and going bare footed. Then when the temps get down in the 30s and 40s we can't hardly stand it. So you see, we have to have more heat than you pop-cycles from up North. :-) Seriously, I think age has something to do with it also. I have no reason to doubt John Russell's report on the Chilli Vest. If he says it works when it is cold, then by golly it works. That's why I broke my piggy bank and got me one too. Although I have not had a chance to use it, I look forward to the day I can, and I hope the weather is still cold. If I am too late for cold weather when Miss P'fer gets going again, then I will have to do my testing above the Arctic Circle this summer. That is, if I make it that far. :-) I think it great that everyone is coming up with ideas and fabricating equipment to make our sport more enjoyable and to increase the amount of time we can fly comfortably. Nothing worse than sitting in the cockpit of ones little airplane, so cold you can not possibly be enjoying all the crystal clear, smooth air, because your feet are numb and the feeling is long gone from the "pinkies." You all have come up with some good ideas for both aircooled and watercooled systems. Do not get me wrong. Just because I don't run over to the hangar and put one on my airplane does not mean I am knocking your particular system. If I ask questions that have not been answered, same thing. Not trying to shoot you all down. Want to find out more of what you have going. I personnal have all the "stuff" I want on my aircraft. John Russell found the Chilli Vest, did a little testing and told me he was happy with it. I like the idea, primarily because it was simple, extremely small, required the connection of two wires to the aircraft battery, and output could be controlled. I did a simple test in my cold basement after I got mine. Hooked it up to an ATP Red 5 amp battery with digital multimeter attached. After aprx 30 mins, most of it at max power, the little battery had dropped aprx .5 volts. I think my electrical system can handle that. The vest is very thin, light, and not noticeable while wearing. You all will be the first to know if it doesn't work as advertised when you hear my teeth chattering from Alaska next summer. BTW: The Chilli Vest is designed to be worn while riding motorcycles. The designer and the vest are from GB. Not the best weather in the world. If it works on a bike, it should work well inside an enclosed cockpit. Don't ever forget, experimental is the name of our game. That is what it is all about. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
>Living in the "Heart of Dixie" is the reason us southern >boys need all the heat we can get. We're accustomed to >living a leisure life in cut-off Levi's, T-shirts, and going >bare footed. Then when the temps get down in the 30s and >40s we can't hardly stand it. So you see, we have to have >more heat than you pop-cycles from up North. :-) >I have no reason to doubt John Russell's report on the >Chilli Vest. If he says it works when it is cold, then by >golly it works. Just got mine this afternoon. Will test it Sunday - after the rain stops. Looks really neat. Feels great, weighs nothing. Thinking about getting my Dad one for Christmas. I hate to see him on his tractor cutting grass, like last winter, all bundled up and suffering while cutting his five acres. And besides he is as old as "Hawk". ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
> Just got mine this afternoon. > Will test it Sunday - after the rain stops. > possum Possum and Gang: Alright!!! We are gaining ground. Now we have three Chilli Vest Converts. OK. All the Chilli Vest gang over there. Aircooled (heated) guys over on the other side. Watercooled (heated) dudes back over there. Anybody know who is winning? whining? hehehe :-) With all this product development and testing, we should all stay warm this winter, I hope. john h PS: One good thing. Everybody knows we will get a valid test report from unbiased Possum whose Dad is almost as old as I am. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
> Just got mine this afternoon. > Will test it Sunday - after the rain stops. >PS: One good thing. Everybody knows we will get a valid >test report from unbiased Possum whose Dad is almost as old >as I am. That's right! P.S. I always looked up to you as a "Father" figure. BTW: They are already sending "me" the AARP mailings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
You can fabricate a heater in an evening if your engine is fan cooled. It doesn't affect cyl head temps more than 30 degrees or so. Just make a collector to fit over the cooling air exhaust ports on top of the shroud next to the holes for the spark plugs (on a 503 anyway).My collector terminates into a 2" tube (brass "P" trap left overs) facing forward with 2" scat tubing from there down inside the cockpit past the seat on the floor ending at my left heel.Thats about 6ft of tubing but it still feels warm to the touch even on 10 degree days. If you get creative closing up the cockpit you can fly without gloves on.G.Aman FS2 W/heat ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: Mike Pierzina <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cabin heater #5 , is that hot enuff for you....
OFFICIAL RULES OF THE AIR 1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory. 2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then they get bigger again. 3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous. 4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here. 5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. 6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start sweating. 7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided with the sky. 8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great' landing is one after which they can use the plane again. 9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself. 10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to taxi to the ramp. 11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and vice versa. 12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes earlier. 13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in clouds. 14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the number of take offs you've made. 15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately no one knows what they are. 16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck. 17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them. 18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger compartment, things are not at all as they should be. 19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the ground has yet to lose. 20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment. 21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much as possible. 22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed. 23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's not subject to appeal. 24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you, runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago. Gotta Fly... --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
> Remind us where you purchased the vest. There may be other > converts. Michael and Gang: Try this url: http://www.sargentcycle.com/ChilliVest.htm Has all the info on the vest, to include prices and ordering info. I ordered mine one day, and a day or two later it was here in Alabama. They are shipped out of Jax, Florida. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com>
Date: Dec 14, 2000
Subject: Re: 912.....
> but if I remember > correctly, piston to cylinder clearance on the 912 is .001 > inch. That is pretty snug. Snugger than you know...the .001 should be .01 and is mm, not inch, so that works out to .00039 inches. Squeek! At least that's what Rotax advertises in the engine's literature..... If the growth rates can be kept together clearances need not be too far apart. Lyc and Cont both use a steel cylinder and an alum piston so rates are not as controlled as with similar metallurgies. J.Baker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jgw300" <jgw300(at)netzero.net>
Subject: General Information
Date: Dec 14, 2000
I created a Web-site to let builders and those interested in airplanes enjoy a few minutes. I intend to keep creating on this site using photos and information furnished by you people. I am also creating a 3-ring binder of this information in various categories, which I will also give those interested. There is not money involved in this site. I created it on a free server, and I will update it when new information is received. Let me know what you think about it, and how might I improve it to make it more interesting. Just thought of a good addition to the site. A category for pictures of all the members of this list. By your airplanes, or projects, or just by yourself. I know I would like to see who I am talking to.... even though it is over the internet. http://jgw300markiiixtra.homestead.com/Introduction~ns4.html Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 912.....
> Snugger than you know...the .001 should be .01 and is mm, not > inch, so that works out to .00039 inches. Squeek! At least that's > what Rotax advertises in the engine's literature..... > J.Baker Jim and Gang: This info is straight from the shop manual: Piston to cylinder clearance (new) 0.000 to 0.020 mm 0.000 to 0.0008 inches Wear limit is 0.13 mm 0.005 inches john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "75r" <75r(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Instruments
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: 75r(at)msn.com Date: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:38 PM I'm building a Firestar ll with a Rotax 503 DCDI and need some advice on instruments. Do I use a dual EGT or is a single ok? If single which cylinder is the best location for the probe? How long of a probe lead do I need to get to the panel? On tachs-- does the Rotax have the "Ducatti" ignition? Hope someone can straighten me out on this. And hey, the weather in Lakeland has been brutal too. 86 deg. on Monday--can you frigging believe that? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: ggleiter(at)minn.net
Subject: Re: Cockpit Heater
Mike Pierzina wrote: > > I think I could make a heater using a small propane tank & torch attachment w/ auto start (craftsman) ....the tank is small but it will burn for a long...long time...,some ducting & some kinda box to contain the flame using some sorta ram air control and alota tinkering.... I live in Minnesota so I've been giving it some thought, I fly Cessna during the winter months , because my FS II isn't finished yet , (kit # 2 was just shipped.......Yippie !!!! ) > > Well, Gotta Fly... > > From: "larrybiglar" > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: brrrrrrr > > > Guess I'd better stop bitching about my hot summers. You guys really get it > bad in the winter, while we sit here with 60 - 70 degree days, and 40 - 50 > deg. nights. Toasty Lar. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "slyck" > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:13 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: brrrrrrr > > ---------------speaking of heaters---they don't make em good > > enough for this stuff. Good day for a project if you have a nice shop. In the Challenger family many use the ultra simple (and cheap) "Zank heater". Simple 4" dryer hose(s) stuffed (and safetied, of course) into the air outlets of the 503 and run forward to the cabin. Works great, and many in our area fly all winter. gil leiter MAPLEWOOD, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: ed mills <edgmills(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Jabiru engines
Did those of you that are interested in engines, notice the post from Ashley Johnston on Thursday? I know the list is growing tired of my questions and request for engine recommendations but "I just can't decide!" I have been interested in the Jabiru since seeing it at the Kolb fly-in. I was a little pushed back by the price however. Ashley's price is around $6600-6700. That is reasonable for me! I actually called him and had a very pleasant and informative conversation with him. He is in New Zealand and can be reached by dialing 011-643-302-7197. Who is the "guy among us" that already has a Jabiru? I remember that he had a full tholtle problem after takeoff and suggested some changes, I would like to get his opinion now that he has the bugs workee out. Regards Ed Mills Mk-3/xtra Dallas Tx. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: General Information
Date: Dec 15, 2000
----- Original Message ----- From: jgw300 <jgw300(at)netzero.net> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 12:53 AM Subject: Kolb-List: General Information > > I created a Web-site to let builders and those interested in airplanes > enjoy a few minutes. I intend to keep creating on this site using photos > and information furnished by you people. I am also creating a 3-ring binder > of this information in various categories, which I will also give those > interested. There is not money involved in this site. I created it on a > free server, and I will update it when new information is received. > > Let me know what you think about it, and how might I improve it to make it > more interesting. > > Just thought of a good addition to the site. A category for pictures of all > the members of this list. By your airplanes, or projects, or just by > yourself. I know I would like to see who I am talking to.... even though it > is over the internet. > > http://jgw300markiiixtra.homestead.com/Introduction~ns4.html > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Instruments
75r, My first recommendation would be the EIS. If you don't want an EIS, the at least get dual EGTs. John Jung 75r wrote: > > From: 75r(at)msn.com > Date: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:38 PM > > I'm building a Firestar ll with a Rotax 503 DCDI and need some advice on > instruments. Do I use a dual EGT or is a single ok? > snip..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Subject: General Information
Date: Dec 15, 2000
I'm new to this site and I'm not sure how someone is to post a question, so I'm just going to give it a shot. I have a Firestar and I'm looking for plans for a total enclosure and how to fab my own ski's. Can anyone help? -----Original Message----- From: Howard Ping [mailto:howard.ping(at)gte.net] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: General Information ----- Original Message ----- From: jgw300 <jgw300(at)netzero.net> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 12:53 AM Subject: Kolb-List: General Information > > I created a Web-site to let builders and those interested in airplanes > enjoy a few minutes. I intend to keep creating on this site using photos > and information furnished by you people. I am also creating a 3-ring binder > of this information in various categories, which I will also give those > interested. There is not money involved in this site. I created it on a > free server, and I will update it when new information is received. > > Let me know what you think about it, and how might I improve it to make it > more interesting. > > Just thought of a good addition to the site. A category for pictures of all > the members of this list. By your airplanes, or projects, or just by > yourself. I know I would like to see who I am talking to.... even though it > is over the internet. > > http://jgw300markiiixtra.homestead.com/Introduction~ns4.html > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru engines
> Did those of you that are interested in engines, > notice the post from Ashley Johnston on Thursday? > Ed Mills Ed and Gang: Couldn't find any info on Ashley's Jabiru Company. What is his background? How about his relationship with the Jabiru Factory? How does he and the US Jabiru rep interface? If you have a warranty problem, will Ashley take care of it in NZ or is the US rep gonna take care of you? A few questions I would want answered if I was considering an engine purchase from Ashley. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Jabiru
Date: Dec 15, 2000
Hi Ed Mills: I'm the guy with the Jabiru 2200 that had the throttle problem. I doubled the fastener's on the throttle cable. A new end, and then drilled the end of the bolt the throttle cable passes through, threaded that and put a screw in to hold it. I like my jabiru very much, even though I never had any trouble with the 582 in 105 hours with it. I'm just not mechanic enough to tinker with the two cycle engines that seem to need a lot of tender loving care. I feel more secure with the four cycle over this very rough terrain I live in. Its beautiful, but very few places to set down. The eighty horse engine gives me a lot more torque and more power all the way around. I have a 1300 foot grass strip with trees and power lines at the ends and hot summer days with two people made it kinda hairy on take offs. The jabiru handles this much better. I have about fourty hours on it right now. The don't likes on it is the carbrurater set up. It only has one clamp to hold all that weight up. I noticed on the Kolbra at the Kolb fly-in that they had a different set up and used two clamps. Mark at Jabiru West was there and said he would send me a new coupling, but I never heard from him. He did give me a hat and shirt. I would like to have the new coupling. I safetyed the carbrurater on with wire holding it in, and up. Others have said they didn't have a problem in this area, but mine fell off, while on the ground, and it was hard to keep it in place. Safty wire cured that. The other thing is reading the oil dip stick. Its hard to see and you need the Kolb in a level position to be correct. When you fill it to the max line, it blows it out , so I keep it a little low. I see you live in Dallas, Texas, why did you forget me. Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Ar. Mark 3 with a Jabiru ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com>
Subject: Re: General Information
Date: Dec 15, 2000
Welcome to the list Dwight! You might want to search the archives, you might come up with something. What model of Firestar do you have?? Dennis http://www.aero-sports.com/bb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: General Information > > I'm new to this site and I'm not sure how someone is to post a question, > so I'm just going to give it a shot. > I have a Firestar and I'm looking for plans for a total enclosure and how > to fab my own ski's. Can anyone help? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Ping [mailto:howard.ping(at)gte.net] > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:14 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: General Information > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jgw300 <jgw300(at)netzero.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 12:53 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: General Information > > > > > > I created a Web-site to let builders and those interested in airplanes > > enjoy a few minutes. I intend to keep creating on this site using photos > > and information furnished by you people. I am also creating a 3-ring > binder > > of this information in various categories, which I will also give those > > interested. There is not money involved in this site. I created it on a > > free server, and I will update it when new information is received. > > > > Let me know what you think about it, and how might I improve it to make it > > more interesting. > > > > Just thought of a good addition to the site. A category for pictures of > all > > the members of this list. By your airplanes, or projects, or just by > > yourself. I know I would like to see who I am talking to.... even though > it > > is over the internet. > > > > http://jgw300markiiixtra.homestead.com/Introduction~ns4.html > > > > Julian Warren > > Eugene, Oregon > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Watson" <djwatson(at)olg.com>
Subject: LNG or Propane
Date: Dec 15, 2000
For all you guys that like to tinker, has anyone thought about using propane or LNG for an UL engine? Of course it what have to be a 4 stroke or would it? Do you think oil injection would work? I wonder what the burn rate would be and how long would the 5 gal. of propane or LNG last. Dennis ( yep I followed a truck on base today that ran on LNG) http://www.aero-sports.com/bb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Subject: General Information
Date: Dec 15, 2000
It was built in 1992, has a 377 Rotax on her. I bought it used this summer and now have 22 hours on it. It's now time for a canopy and some ski's so I can continue to fly. It's getting cold and snowy up here in Minnesota. P.S. I've been told by other Kolb owners to get ride of the wood prop on it. Any suggestions for a better prop? Also looking to upgrade to a 437 or 503. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Watson [mailto:djwatson(at)olg.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: General Information Welcome to the list Dwight! You might want to search the archives, you might come up with something. What model of Firestar do you have?? Dennis http://www.aero-sports.com/bb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: General Information > > I'm new to this site and I'm not sure how someone is to post a question, > so I'm just going to give it a shot. > I have a Firestar and I'm looking for plans for a total enclosure and how > to fab my own ski's. Can anyone help? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Ping [mailto:howard.ping(at)gte.net] > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:14 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: General Information > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jgw300 <jgw300(at)netzero.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 12:53 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: General Information > > > > > > I created a Web-site to let builders and those interested in airplanes > > enjoy a few minutes. I intend to keep creating on this site using photos > > and information furnished by you people. I am also creating a 3-ring > binder > > of this information in various categories, which I will also give those > > interested. There is not money involved in this site. I created it on a > > free server, and I will update it when new information is received. > > > > Let me know what you think about it, and how might I improve it to make it > > more interesting. > > > > Just thought of a good addition to the site. A category for pictures of > all > > the members of this list. By your airplanes, or projects, or just by > > yourself. I know I would like to see who I am talking to.... even though > it > > is over the internet. > > > > http://jgw300markiiixtra.homestead.com/Introduction~ns4.html > > > > Julian Warren > > Eugene, Oregon > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Subject: Jabiru
Date: Dec 15, 2000
Hi, Dallas, I read your message and I'm wondering if you still have your old 582 sitting around gathering dust. I'm looking for one to upgrade to. -----Original Message----- From: Dallas Shepherd [mailto:cen23954(at)centurytel.net] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Jabiru Hi Ed Mills: I'm the guy with the Jabiru 2200 that had the throttle problem. I doubled the fastener's on the throttle cable. A new end, and then drilled the end of the bolt the throttle cable passes through, threaded that and put a screw in to hold it. I like my jabiru very much, even though I never had any trouble with the 582 in 105 hours with it. I'm just not mechanic enough to tinker with the two cycle engines that seem to need a lot of tender loving care. I feel more secure with the four cycle over this very rough terrain I live in. Its beautiful, but very few places to set down. The eighty horse engine gives me a lot more torque and more power all the way around. I have a 1300 foot grass strip with trees and power lines at the ends and hot summer days with two people made it kinda hairy on take offs. The jabiru handles this much better. I have about fourty hours on it right now. The don't likes on it is the carbrurater set up. It only has one clamp to hold all that weight up. I noticed on the Kolbra at the Kolb fly-in that they had a different set up and used two clamps. Mark at Jabiru West was there and said he would send me a new coupling, but I never heard from him. He did give me a hat and shirt. I would like to have the new coupling. I safetyed the carbrurater on with wire holding it in, and up. Others have said they didn't have a problem in this area, but mine fell off, while on the ground, and it was hard to keep it in place. Safty wire cured that. The other thing is reading the oil dip stick. Its hard to see and you need the Kolb in a level position to be correct. When you fill it to the max line, it blows it out , so I keep it a little low. I see you live in Dallas, Texas, why did you forget me. Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Ar. Mark 3 with a Jabiru ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2000
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Jabiru engines
The Jabiru post got my interest also. Does anyone know what kind of thrust this engine would produce on a Kolb??? The reason I ask is my 75HP direct drive VW turning a 60" prop produces a unacceptable 150lbs. of thrust. The same engine with a reduction drive turning a slow turning three bladed 72" prop is reported to produce 300+ lbs of thrust. Another VW turning a slower turning 84" two bladed prop does get 400+ lbs. of thrust 'I have seen the result".


December 01, 2000 - December 15, 2000

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