Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-cq
January 21, 2001 - February 04, 2001
will never forget!!! I have been wanting to solo for months
but the weather on weekends does not seem to cooperate in
minnesota!!! Today was the day---temperture about 20 deg. f,
wind out of the south at 5-10.
I called my friend ralph burlingame and we made plans to
meet on lake minnetonka about 12:30-1:00 on cooks bay. blue
sky and it was starting to warm-up---dale seitzer also
brought his firestar out to fly. we started to setup our
little planes and before I knew it we were ready!!! ralph
and dale were warming up there planes as I was also, my gas
had been in the tank since mid. oct. It would not stay
running and I had to keep on priming it to keep it running,
my guess was that I had a little water in my gas tank
although I could not see any. after adding a little "heat"
to it, and running it a little to warm it up awhile, it
finally ran a little better. so i decided to just taxi for
about a hour to burn some of the water through. my friends
were already flying and having fun. I taxied some more and
found it to be a little rough on my tail wheel as i could
feel it bouncing. the plane was running pretty good by now
and i was getting tired of taxing!!! so to north end of the
bay i went. I started to taxi faster and faster!!! all of a
sudden i was airborne!!! the only thing i could think of now
was, ok get your grip!!!
watch your airspeed, climb at 50mph. easy on the throttle
and stick!!! after 15 minutes of flying i finally settled
down because i was in such in a " high on life mode" after
about 30 min. of flying, i was ready to make some simulated
approaches for the landing and it's a good because i needed
every two miles of runway on the lake with my skis on!!!
thank god I flew it to the ground at 50 mph. and made a good
landing. it was hard to kiss the snow with my helmet on, but
i did. I want to say a special thanks to; ralph burlingame
for all his support and help through this time consuming
project, but well worth it. jerry Carson my instructor and
dale seitzer for answering questions and last but not least
all of you on the kolb list who have answered my questions.
I know each of you had your big day!!! and i just wanted to
share mine with you.
http://members.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
firestar kxp---1 hr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
" kolb list"
| Subject: | correct url/solo |
Try this url for my solo pic on lame minnetonka.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/s.o.s/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
> thanks,
> Gary r. voigt
> firestar kxp---1 hr.
Gary:
Congratulations!!!
May you have many more wonderful hours of flying your
Firestar.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
I can't believe i heard from the man himself.
thank you john,
Gary r. voigt
John Hauck wrote:
>
> > thanks,
> > Gary r. voigt
> > firestar kxp---1 hr.
>
> Gary:
>
> Congratulations!!!
>
> May you have many more wonderful hours of flying your
> Firestar.
>
> john h
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Congratulations Gary!
I know the feeling and the adventure has only just begun. Have fun.
John bruzan FSII chicago il
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
I'll second that. Excellent job on the site. Would have been a great place
to visit before building.
-----Original Message-----
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Web Site
>
>In a message dated 1/19/01 10:30:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com writes:
>
>
>> After all the foofahrah, and a lot of help, here's my mighty effort.
>> This is only a beginning, and I'll be adding much more as I go. For
>> those who previewed it for me, there's quite a bit of new material.
>> It's aimed mostly at the newcomer, but I hope all will enjoy. Let me
>> know what you-all think. Thanks. Humble Lar.
>>
>> http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
>>
>
>Big Lar, let me be one of the first to congratulate you on one of the
>most....interesting ..... I guess....of all the homepages I have ever
seen!!
>Um makin it sound funny ...but ...actually ...I really mean it ...cause you
>have that story line goin for you right along side...very good! geoR38
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Congratulations Gary
You sure are a brave man to fly in 20 deg weather and a short windshield.
Will
In a message dated 1/21/01 9:20:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
johndeereantique(at)uswest.net writes:
> I don't even know where to start. Today was a day I
> will never forget!!! I have been wanting to solo for months
> but the weather on weekends does not seem to cooperate in
> minnesota!!! Today was the day---temperture about 20 deg. f,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Peterson <b1bookie(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Hi Gary........WOW.......Really enjoyed hearing
about your experience. Congratulations.......Bill
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: God watches over ultralight and idiots. |
I'll go a little further on what I said the other day..............to my
eyes, this is a very good answer to the problem of not being able to post
pictures to the List. If someone isn't interested, just poke the Delete
button. If they are, ( like me ) open 1 or as many as you like. Don't feel
like waiting for downloads ?? Look at them tomorrow, or next week, or
never - your choice. Nice job, Will. I wish you wouldn't fly so much,
tho', I'm getting awful anxious..............! ! ! And Jealous ! ! !
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WillUribe(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: God watches over ultralight and idiots.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Haven't tried my Matco brakes yet, other than on the ground. I mentioned
last year, that when I installed them, that they had very little gripping
power. Last year, they seemed real strong. Dunno ?? Anyway, my current
growl for Matco is the fluid reservoir. $20 odd dollars for the
kit.........apparently you can't buy just the clear plastic container, have
to buy the cap and all. The 1st one, I goobered the fitting at the bottom
with sealer, and snugged it in - - - not too tight, I've cracked plastic
before. A couple of months later, there was fluid all over the ground, and
of course, inside the nose cone. There was a series of hairline radial
cracks around the base of the res. where the fitting screws in. Hmmmm ??
Ordered a new one, sealer-ed up the brass fitting, and screwed it GENTLY
into the base, put a small wrench on it, and gave it just enuf to not come
loose, like a 1/2 turn over finger tight. Recently, fluid on the ground
again. $%$
%$## ! ! ! Radial hairline cracks again ! ! ! Well, sports
fans, I'm not buying another one. They can take that junk and ram it. A
friend is building me an aluminum reservoir, and I'll put a tee in the
tubing for a sight tube to check fluid level. Probably the only custom
machined res. out there. So, if your Matco res. cracks, throw it away, and
use your imagination. Incidentally..............the fluid was red
when I put it in, 3 yrs. ago. Now it's a kind of pale orange. Anyone seen
this before ?? Is it OK to use ?? I think I'll replace it anyway, but I'm
curious. Grumbly Lar. Just got home from a
hard nights work. Grumble..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "b young" <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 4:58 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 01/20/01
>
> <<<<<
> Speaking of brakes...
>
> On my Firestar last year I installed hydraulic brakes from
> TracyObrien ( I
> believe: www.tracyobrien.com ) and am reasonably happy with
> them!
> Reasonably and not perfectly happy because I still have some
> sort of air
> leak that requires me to bleed more often than I want (but
> this is probably
> because of my fault in not locating a less than percect hose
> connection some
> where.)>>>>
>
>
> i installed a set of matco brakes and had a defect in the
> master cylindar, it never leaked oil out but would let air
> in. they replaced the part with no questions.
>
> boyd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: God watches over ultralight and idiots. |
Migawd ! ! ! I thought that was an ant crawling thru the rocks. Great stuf
! ! ! Is that with Daves digital camera ?? Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WillUribe(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: God watches over ultralight and idiots.
>
> It's no secret, I just take lots of pictures and post the best ones :-)
> I hold up the camera without looking through
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Good on you, Gary, sounds like a lot of - CHILLY - fun. I couldn't open the
site at the bottom. BTW, be careful with the "Heet." I used to use it in
my chainsaws when I was logging in northern Idaho, and it really doesn't
like some kinds of rubber, or neoprene, or whatever. Some of the guys had
fits with it, and others, ( like me ) were OK. If I remember right, it
raised H_ _ _ with some carburetors. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 6:18 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA
>
> I don't even know where to start. Today was a day I
> will never forget!!! I have been wanting to solo for months
> but the weather on weekends does not seem to cooperate in
> minnesota!!! Today was the day---temperture about 20 deg. f,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
In all fairness to Matco, I should mention that when I got my kit and
installed the wheels, they wobbled when I spun them. I mentioned it way
back when. Sent them back to Matco, they found a problem with a
subcontractor, fixed it, added an inspection to the line, and sent them back
to me. Fast and free. They're good folks, in spite of that useless
reservoir. I know, I know, some of you do fine with a little loop of tubing
with a vent hole in it, but I sure like to spend money, and be fancy.
Broke Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:07 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Matco Brakes
>
> Haven't tried my Matco brakes yet, other than on the ground. I mentioned
> last year, that when I installed them, that they had very little gripping
> power. Last year, they seemed real strong. Dunno ?? Anyway, my current
> growl for Matco is the fluid reservoir. $20 odd dollars for the
> kit.........apparently you can't buy just the clear plastic container,
have
> to buy the cap and all. The 1st one, I goobered the fitting at the bottom
> with sealer, and snugged it in - - - not too tight, I've cracked plastic
> before. A couple of months later, there was fluid all over the ground,
and
> of course, inside the nose cone. There was a series of hairline radial
> cracks around the base of the res. where the fitting screws in. Hmmmm ??
> Ordered a new one, sealer-ed up the brass fitting, and screwed it GENTLY
> into the base, put a small wrench on it, and gave it just enuf to not come
> loose, like a 1/2 turn over finger tight. Recently, fluid on the ground
> again. $%$
%$## ! ! ! Radial hairline cracks again ! ! ! Well,
sports
> fans, I'm not buying another one. They can take that junk and ram it. A
> friend is building me an aluminum reservoir, and I'll put a tee in the
> tubing for a sight tube to check fluid level. Probably the only custom
> machined res. out there. So, if your Matco res. cracks, throw it away,
and
> use your imagination. Incidentally..............the fluid was red
> when I put it in, 3 yrs. ago. Now it's a kind of pale orange. Anyone
seen
> this before ?? Is it OK to use ?? I think I'll replace it anyway, but
I'm
> curious. Grumbly Lar. Just got home from a
> hard nights work. Grumble..........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "b young" <byoung(at)brigham.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 4:58 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 01/20/01
>
>
> >
> > <<<<<
> > Speaking of brakes...
> >
> > On my Firestar last year I installed hydraulic brakes from
> > TracyObrien ( I
> > believe: www.tracyobrien.com ) and am reasonably happy with
> > them!
> > Reasonably and not perfectly happy because I still have some
> > sort of air
> > leak that requires me to bleed more often than I want (but
> > this is probably
> > because of my fault in not locating a less than percect hose
> > connection some
> > where.)>>>>
> >
> >
> > i installed a set of matco brakes and had a defect in the
> > master cylindar, it never leaked oil out but would let air
> > in. they replaced the part with no questions.
> >
> > boyd
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
I'm really pleased with all the great comments I've received about my
new web-site. Many on the List, and many more off-List. I'm amazed ! !
! Thanks very much to all of you. It was a LOT of work, and I sent it
out with some uncertainty. The response has made it all very
worthwhile. Thanks again ! ! ! Since I've been on the List, I've
looked at quite a few web sites that Kolb-ers have put together, and
enjoyed every one. Unfortunately, I haven't saved some of the URL's,
and there's a lot of info out there, that it would be great to go back
to from time to time. Everybody has their own way of expressing
themselves, and find their own ways of doing things, and it keeps it all
interesting. It would be nice if we had a list of everybody's sites,
that we could refer to. Any one smarter than me know of a way to do
this ?? Maybe make a sign off line that includes your URL ??
Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
Larry, or anyone, do you have any instructions on the Matco brakes
for overhaouling, bleeding, etc.???
If so, please contact me so I can ask you to mail a copy to me.
Thanks
do no archive
--- larrybiglar wrote:
>
>
> Haven't tried my Matco brakes yet, other than on the ground. I
> mentioned
> last year, that when I installed them, that they had very little
> gripping
> power. Last year, they seemed real strong. Dunno ?? Anyway, my
> current
> growl for Matco is the fluid reservoir. $20 odd dollars for the
> kit.........apparently you can't buy just the clear plastic
> container, have
> to buy the cap and all. The 1st one, I goobered the fitting at the
> bottom
> with sealer, and snugged it in - - - not too tight, I've cracked
> plastic
> before. A couple of months later, there was fluid all over the
> ground, and
> of course, inside the nose cone. There was a series of hairline
> radial
> cracks around the base of the res. where the fitting screws in.
> Hmmmm ??
> Ordered a new one, sealer-ed up the brass fitting, and screwed it
> GENTLY
> into the base, put a small wrench on it, and gave it just enuf to not
> come
> loose, like a 1/2 turn over finger tight. Recently, fluid on the
> ground
> again. $%$
%$## ! ! ! Radial hairline cracks again ! ! ! Well,
> sports
> fans, I'm not buying another one. They can take that junk and ram
> it. A
> friend is building me an aluminum reservoir, and I'll put a tee in
> the
> tubing for a sight tube to check fluid level. Probably the only
> custom
> machined res. out there. So, if your Matco res. cracks, throw it
> away, and
> use your imagination. Incidentally..............the fluid was
> red
> when I put it in, 3 yrs. ago. Now it's a kind of pale orange.
> Anyone seen
> this before ?? Is it OK to use ?? I think I'll replace it anyway,
> but I'm
> curious. Grumbly Lar. Just got home
> from a
> hard nights work. Grumble..........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "b young" <byoung(at)brigham.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 4:58 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 01/20/01
>
>
> >
> > <<<<<
> > Speaking of brakes...
> >
> > On my Firestar last year I installed hydraulic brakes from
> > TracyObrien ( I
> > believe: www.tracyobrien.com ) and am reasonably happy with
> > them!
> > Reasonably and not perfectly happy because I still have some
> > sort of air
> > leak that requires me to bleed more often than I want (but
> > this is probably
> > because of my fault in not locating a less than percect hose
> > connection some
> > where.)>>>>
> >
> >
> > i installed a set of matco brakes and had a defect in the
> > master cylindar, it never leaked oil out but would let air
> > in. they replaced the part with no questions.
> >
> > boyd
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
John & Lynn Richmond :-)
Palm Coast, Fl.
Mk3, 582
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
R. VOIGT--
WAY TO GO gARY !!! gREAT LOOKING PLANE. CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR SOLO
FLIGHT. BET YOU HAD ONE OF THOSE "SMILES" THAT jOHN h. TALKED ABOUT ?
sAFE fLYING
bOB gRIFFIN
MK111 098
uPSTATE n.y.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary r. voigt <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA
>
> I don't even know where to start. Today was a day I
>will never forget!!!
Snip-
Congratulations! Welcom to a new world, the excitment will never wain.
We look forward to hearing about the adventures yet to come.
Dave Rains
FS2
El Paso
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com> |
| Subject: | SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Gary, Congratulations again! Now you can begin to learn to fly
ultralights. An instructor told me to practice something everytime you
fly--a good habit. Don't take chances to show off or because others are
doing it--be safe and fly until you are 80 years old!
See you next time, Dale Seitzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
Not sure about the overhauling, but I pressure bled mine, from the wheel
cylinders. Works far better than the standard "pump and hold" business.
Haven't thought much about the overhauling, but it's something we should
know. Anybody ?? Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Richmond" <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Matco Brakes
>
> Larry, or anyone, do you have any instructions on the Matco brakes
> for overhaouling, bleeding, etc.???
>
> If so, please contact me so I can ask you to mail a copy to me.
>
> Thanks
>
> do no archive
>
>
> --- larrybiglar wrote:
> >
> >
> > Haven't tried my Matco brakes yet, other than on the ground. I
> > mentioned
> > last year, that when I installed them, that they had very little
> > gripping
> > power. Last year, they seemed real strong. Dunno ?? Anyway, my
> > current
> > growl for Matco is the fluid reservoir. $20 odd dollars for the
> > kit.........apparently you can't buy just the clear plastic
> > container, have
> > to buy the cap and all. The 1st one, I goobered the fitting at the
> > bottom
> > with sealer, and snugged it in - - - not too tight, I've cracked
> > plastic
> > before. A couple of months later, there was fluid all over the
> > ground, and
> > of course, inside the nose cone. There was a series of hairline
> > radial
> > cracks around the base of the res. where the fitting screws in.
> > Hmmmm ??
> > Ordered a new one, sealer-ed up the brass fitting, and screwed it
> > GENTLY
> > into the base, put a small wrench on it, and gave it just enuf to not
> > come
> > loose, like a 1/2 turn over finger tight. Recently, fluid on the
> > ground
> > again. $%$
%$## ! ! ! Radial hairline cracks again ! ! ! Well,
> > sports
> > fans, I'm not buying another one. They can take that junk and ram
> > it. A
> > friend is building me an aluminum reservoir, and I'll put a tee in
> > the
> > tubing for a sight tube to check fluid level. Probably the only
> > custom
> > machined res. out there. So, if your Matco res. cracks, throw it
> > away, and
> > use your imagination. Incidentally..............the fluid was
> > red
> > when I put it in, 3 yrs. ago. Now it's a kind of pale orange.
> > Anyone seen
> > this before ?? Is it OK to use ?? I think I'll replace it anyway,
> > but I'm
> > curious. Grumbly Lar. Just got home
> > from a
> > hard nights work. Grumble..........
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "b young" <byoung(at)brigham.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 4:58 PM
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 01/20/01
> >
> >
> > >
> > > <<<<<
> > > Speaking of brakes...
> > >
> > > On my Firestar last year I installed hydraulic brakes from
> > > TracyObrien ( I
> > > believe: www.tracyobrien.com ) and am reasonably happy with
> > > them!
> > > Reasonably and not perfectly happy because I still have some
> > > sort of air
> > > leak that requires me to bleed more often than I want (but
> > > this is probably
> > > because of my fault in not locating a less than percect hose
> > > connection some
> > > where.)>>>>
> > >
> > >
> > > i installed a set of matco brakes and had a defect in the
> > > master cylindar, it never leaked oil out but would let air
> > > in. they replaced the part with no questions.
> > >
> > > boyd
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> John & Lynn Richmond :-)
> Palm Coast, Fl.
> Mk3, 582
>
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
Brake fluid reservoirs: check out some motorcycle brake resevoirs. I don't
remember what kind of bike that I got it off of, but I found a nice round one
that mounts with a clamp. Visit your local junk yard and dig around for ideas.
Bill "we love junk" Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Several times I've seen people ask about "howdja do that ??" when they
see pics on the screen. Here's 3 of my favorites, and here's a few
things that I try to keep in mind. I realize these aren't Kolb pics,
but they are planes flying, and the ideas hold true. Try to
keep the sun behind you if possible. This will ( 1. Light your
subject properly, and ( 2. Use your body as a shade to prevent
reflections inside the windows. This doesn't apply when shooting very
early or late in the day for texture and depth. Shoot at high
speed if possible. I use at least 1/500 sec., and often use 1/1000 sec.
This helps eliminate movement. Slowly squeeeeeezzzze the
shutter release. It should be a surprise when the camera clicks Just
exactly like the trigger on a gun. You can allow for almost anything,
except camera movement when the shutter clicks. Frame Your
Picture ! ! ! ! ! This is what few people REALLY think about when
they shoot. 1st, get to know your camera. Put the camera on a tripod,
or something solid and look thru the viewfinder. Move your head and/or
eye until you know EXactly what is in the frame - corner to corner.
Then take a couple of sample pics, and analyse them with this in mind.
Is what you see what you get ?? Many cameras have a larger or smaller
area photographed than shows in the viewfinder. You'll need to allow
for this. When framing your picture, what do you want in it ??
Frame it accordingly, and THINK about what you want. The camera is a
tool, again like a gun.................you have to tell it what to do,
and it's no smarter than whoever gives it orders. One of the
very biggest things - - - - don't let the camera touch the plane, and
try not to let your upper body touch the plane either. Use your body as
a shock absorber to eliminate vibration at the camera.
Finally, don't be cheap with the film ! ! ! Take lots of pics. As an
illustration, I'll dig thru my archives, and in a day or 3, I'll send
some distance shots from Port Angeles, looking west. All are nice pics,
but ONE of them, Hoooo-Boy ! ! ! It's really beautiful. All within
less than a minute, same exposure, general composition,
etc..............but that ONE has that "something" that makes it stand
out. Experiment. If it looks good, try it. Might work.
Pro Lar.
In Cessna, I took a series of about 6 or 7 shots over the Salton Sea.
All came out well, but I sure like this the best.
http://flyingpics.homestead.com/files/Cessna_182.jpg
Sometimes, all the effort and thought can't help. This was a nasty day
in Montana last summer, and I was scrunched around in the seat of the
plane, just trying to get the thing framed. Took 6 or 8 here too, and
"this the one, man." Tom held the Prospector completely solid and
stable for me, and it must have been tough, with the weather, and with
me thrashing around.
http://flyingpics.homestead.com/files/Pacer.jpg
Once again, pilot Tom Kuffel came thru. While Perry was setting the
Pacer up for landing on the river, Tom kept a real good distance and
speed, circling in a wide arc, and slipping the plane to give me the
best possible angle. Framing this one was my primary concern, and once
again, 5 or 6 tries. You can actually see where the floats 1st touched.
After this session, I thought I was gonna need a session myself, with
the local chiropractor.
http://flyingpics.homestead.com/files/Landing.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
I think the recommended method of bleeding the brakes is to use a pumper
type oilcan, connected to the 'bleeder' nipple at the wheel cylinder, using
a piece of 1/8" tubing. You loosen the bleeder fitting and pump fluid
'up-hill' to the master cylinder, because its easier to pump bubbles up than
down. When fluid appears at the master cylinder the system is full, and you
can re-tighten the fitting at the wheel cylinder.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: larrybiglar <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Matco Brakes
>
> Not sure about the overhauling, but I pressure bled mine, from the wheel
> cylinders. Works far better than the standard "pump and hold" business.
> Haven't thought much about the overhauling, but it's something we should
> know. Anybody ?? Lar.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matco Brakes |
When fluid appears at the master cylinder the system is
full, and you
> can re-tighten the fitting at the wheel cylinder.
>
> Ron
Ron and Gang:
I use automatic transmission fluid (red) in my Matco's.
Also bleed them like you with my antique oil can. However,
for me the system is not full until I have fluid in my
reservoir, which is, you guessed it, a loop of 1/4 clear
fuel line. I pump each side up until I am a couple inches
from the top of the loop, which has a hole drilled in it
with an 1/8" drill bit to vent it to the atmosphere.
It works.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net> |
Sometimes you can shoot into the sun,
and come out with a decent shot. This
was on a 35mm print and I shot it with a
digital so I've lost some of the quality.
I'm flying my FS2 over the Bluegrass.
Howard
Somerset,KY
Mvc-029s
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Alexander <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | The Will & Dave Show |
Will, Dave & Kolb Listers:
The most recent photo's that Will published (the 7 very
large ones) have been put in the album "Kolb Flying in the
Desert SW".
George Alexander
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Will & Dave Show |
Very nice, George. I really like that effect of placing the pointer over an
opened picture and having the inset of the owner pop up. Definitely going
to look into that. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:28 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: The Will & Dave Show
>
> Will, Dave & Kolb Listers:
>
> The most recent photo's that Will published (the 7 very
> large ones) have been put in the album "Kolb Flying in the
> Desert SW".
>
> George Alexander
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
It didn't come thru for me, Howard. Nothing to open. 'Tis truth,
there's a lot of ways to get good pictures, and good effects. My aim
was to some of those starting out, or unsure, and kind of give a basic
starting point. Then too, I'm not a pro either, just a hobbyist, but I sure
have fun...............and spend lotsa money on my toys.
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:32 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
> Sometimes you can shoot into the sun,
> and come out with a decent shot. This
> was on a 35mm print and I shot it with a
> digital so I've lost some of the quality.
> I'm flying my FS2 over the Bluegrass.
> Howard
> Somerset,KY
> Mvc-029s
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Could I ask everyone to re-send their website URL's ?? I've started a
separate, dedicated file just for those. Half of those I've saved I can't
find, and I didn't save some I should have. Thanks.
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
> It didn't come thru for me, Howard. Nothing to open. 'Tis
truth,
> there's a lot of ways to get good pictures, and good effects. My
aim
> was to some of those starting out, or unsure, and kind of give a basic
> starting point. Then too, I'm not a pro either, just a hobbyist, but I
sure
> have fun...............and spend lotsa money on my toys.
> Big Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:32 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
>
> >
> > Sometimes you can shoot into the sun,
> > and come out with a decent shot. This
> > was on a 35mm print and I shot it with a
> > digital so I've lost some of the quality.
> > I'm flying my FS2 over the Bluegrass.
> > Howard
> > Somerset,KY
> > Mvc-029s
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: SOLO/GARY R. VOIGT---MINNESOTA |
Congradulations !
DAVE FS11
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
I'm a little confused about the wing rib fabric rivets. I think my main
problem is getting rid of pre-conceived notions. 1st, on page 55, it
says the fabric is rivetted to the main ribs and false ribs, on the
BOTTOM of the wing. The bottom ?? Thought that was a positive pressure
area ?? The whole bottom ?? Front to back ?? Then it says, on top
of the wing, rivets go aft of the center of the main spar on the
straight section of the ribs. OK, but how far ?? All the way to the
rear spar ?? Confused Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Lar:
Secures and stabilizes the fabric on the bottom. Keeps the
fabric from lifting on the top. Rivet to the rear end of the
top and bottom rib tube.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net> |
Lar,
Here is mine.
Mike H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
> Could I ask everyone to re-send their website URL's ?? I've started a
> separate, dedicated file just for those. Half of those I've saved I can't
> find, and I didn't save some I should have. Thanks.
> Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
>
> >
> > It didn't come thru for me, Howard. Nothing to open. 'Tis
> truth,
> > there's a lot of ways to get good pictures, and good effects. My
> aim
> > was to some of those starting out, or unsure, and kind of give a basic
> > starting point. Then too, I'm not a pro either, just a hobbyist, but I
> sure
> > have fun...............and spend lotsa money on my toys.
> > Big Lar.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:32 AM
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Sometimes you can shoot into the sun,
> > > and come out with a decent shot. This
> > > was on a 35mm print and I shot it with a
> > > digital so I've lost some of the quality.
> > > I'm flying my FS2 over the Bluegrass.
> > > Howard
> > > Somerset,KY
> > > Mvc-029s
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
Lar,
Yes, all the way to the rear spar. Riveting the bottom fabric is necessary
even for those of us who who don't fly upside down ;-o
The rivets do more than keep the fabric pulled tight to the ribs, they also
keep the ribs in column by attachment to the fabric. It creates a mutually
dependent system of the ribs holding the fabric to the correct shape and
also the fabric keeping the ribs in column.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of larrybiglar
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric
I'm a little confused about the wing rib fabric rivets. I think my main
problem is getting rid of pre-conceived notions. 1st, on page 55, it
says the fabric is rivetted to the main ribs and false ribs, on the
BOTTOM of the wing. The bottom ?? Thought that was a positive pressure
area ?? The whole bottom ?? Front to back ?? Then it says, on top
of the wing, rivets go aft of the center of the main spar on the
straight section of the ribs. OK, but how far ?? All the way to the
rear spar ?? Confused Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric Rivets |
Also, with that load pushing on the bottom of the wing, you will see the
fabric scalloping between the bottom false ribs and be glad that you have
something holding that fabric on.
Kip Laurie
Atlanta
Firestar II
45 hours since 09/00
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
> Lar:
>
> Secures and stabilizes the fabric on the bottom. Keeps the
> fabric from lifting on the top. Rivet to the rear end of the
> top and bottom rib tube.
>
> john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
| Subject: | Fabric rib rivet holes |
OK, its time to get on the list and ask questions.
2/ Should the holes for the fabric holding rivets be done last, or while
doing the initial assembly, I think it can wait until everything else is
riveted together.
Frank, there is a rib fabric rivet hole drilling fixture included in the
fabric kit. You should drill these holes before you put the fabric on, if
you try to after, you will catch the fabric with the drill, & make a mess.
Also, be sure to use a #30 drill (included with the fixture), not a 1/8th.
The #30 is slightly larger by .003in., making the rivet pulling easier.
Thanks,
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
www.aircrafttechsupport.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Some of the most tedious jobs in anticipation actually end up being some of
the most satisfying tasks in retrospect. I thought about it for a while,
and stumbled upon a way of clipping a line from the root rib to the tip,
offset by the displacement of the drilling jig I got from Jim Miller. Then
I drilled a row of holes, moved the line and drilled another. Ended up
being a satisfying day, getting the wing frames perfectly ready for
covering. Had to remember that when it came time to melt all the holes for
the rivets.
Have any of you started thinking about the next plane you'd like to build?
Sometimes I daydream about cutting capstrips and building classic wooden
wing ribs, gluing one up every night and cracking it loose from the jig in
the morning, too impatient to wait until I get home from work I'm really
looking forward to flying my Mark III, but a part of me will be sad to see
the project finished....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
> Lar,
>
> Yes, all the way to the rear spar. Riveting the bottom fabric is
necessary
> even for those of us who who don't fly upside down ;-o
>
> The rivets do more than keep the fabric pulled tight to the ribs, they
also
> keep the ribs in column by attachment to the fabric. It creates a
mutually
> dependent system of the ribs holding the fabric to the correct shape and
> also the fabric keeping the ribs in column.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of larrybiglar
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:49 PM
> To: Kolb
> Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
>
> I'm a little confused about the wing rib fabric rivets. I think my main
> problem is getting rid of pre-conceived notions. 1st, on page 55, it
> says the fabric is rivetted to the main ribs and false ribs, on the
> BOTTOM of the wing. The bottom ?? Thought that was a positive pressure
> area ?? The whole bottom ?? Front to back ?? Then it says, on top
> of the wing, rivets go aft of the center of the main spar on the
> straight section of the ribs. OK, but how far ?? All the way to the
> rear spar ?? Confused Lar.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
The nasty part of rivet holes for fabric are all the shavings from boring the
holes. Even if you turn and shake the wing assy. after you drill all those
holes, some tiny little sharp things end up poking tiny little holes in your
fabric. I have no clue how you could get all of them out with the fabric
already in place. I suggest you drill them before the fabric and be extremely
careful blowing out the tubes with compressed air and plugging the open ends
of the rib tubes with cotton or cloth before covering.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 01/21/01 |
"Gary r. voigt"
may every flight be this happy. remember takeoff are
optional..... landings are mandatory.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
That's email, I need the websites. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE HOUSEWERT" <mhousewert(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
> Lar,
> Here is mine.
>
> Mike H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
>
>
> >
> > Could I ask everyone to re-send their website URL's ?? I've started a
> > separate, dedicated file just for those. Half of those I've saved I
can't
> > find, and I didn't save some I should have. Thanks.
> > Lar.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > > It didn't come thru for me, Howard. Nothing to open. 'Tis
> > truth,
> > > there's a lot of ways to get good pictures, and good effects.
My
> > aim
> > > was to some of those starting out, or unsure, and kind of give a basic
> > > starting point. Then too, I'm not a pro either, just a hobbyist, but
I
> > sure
> > > have fun...............and spend lotsa money on my toys.
> > > Big Lar.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:32 AM
> > > Subject: Kolb-List: Mvc-029s
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Sometimes you can shoot into the sun,
> > > > and come out with a decent shot. This
> > > > was on a 35mm print and I shot it with a
> > > > digital so I've lost some of the quality.
> > > > I'm flying my FS2 over the Bluegrass.
> > > > Howard
> > > > Somerset,KY
> > > > Mvc-029s
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
How do you recommend holding that little jig ?? I found out today that
fingers aren't enuf, and I messed up several holes; one very badly. May
need to replace the tube. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>
> OK, its time to get on the list and ask questions.
>
>
> 2/ Should the holes for the fabric holding rivets be done last, or while
> doing the initial assembly, I think it can wait until everything else is
> riveted together.
>
> Frank, there is a rib fabric rivet hole drilling fixture included in the
> fabric kit. You should drill these holes before you put the fabric on, if
> you try to after, you will catch the fabric with the drill, & make a mess.
>
> Also, be sure to use a #30 drill (included with the fixture), not a 1/8th.
> The #30 is slightly larger by .003in., making the rivet pulling easier.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
> www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
I guess I'm a flyer, and not a builder. I wouldn't trade the experience of
the last 4 yrs, and the people I've met for anything, but the thought of
starting another one curls me up. It's been a grand experience, but I want
the tarnation thing done, and go flying. Nuf's nuf ! ! ! Tired
Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McBride" <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
> Some of the most tedious jobs in anticipation actually end up being some
of
> the most satisfying tasks in retrospect. I thought about it for a while,
> and stumbled upon a way of clipping a line from the root rib to the tip,
> offset by the displacement of the drilling jig I got from Jim Miller.
Then
> I drilled a row of holes, moved the line and drilled another. Ended up
> being a satisfying day, getting the wing frames perfectly ready for
> covering. Had to remember that when it came time to melt all the holes
for
> the rivets.
>
> Have any of you started thinking about the next plane you'd like to build?
> Sometimes I daydream about cutting capstrips and building classic wooden>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjung(at)execpc.com> |
Larry,
I suggest that when you send a message like below, that you send it to only the
person that needs to know, and not the 300 or so on the list. All of us have
to read and delete for no reason other than you didn't take the time to copy
and paste an address. To get a message back to just the one person, you can use
"reply", but before hitting "send", remove the Kolb-list address and paste in
the one persons address, which is in the copied message.
John Jung
larrybiglar wrote:
>
> That's email, I need the websites. Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Lar,
Here is a picture on how I held the rib drilling jig. I replaced the small
rod that came with the jig with a longer brazing rod that way the adjacent
rib could help me hold the drill perpendicular to the rib, take a look.
http://members.aol.com/FS2Kolb/178.jpg
Will
In a message dated 1/23/01 3:06:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com writes:
> How do you recommend holding that little jig ?? I found out today that
> fingers aren't enuf, and I messed up several holes; one very badly. May
> need to replace the tube. Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
> To: "Kolb List"
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:22 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > OK, its time to get on the list and ask questions.
> >
> >
> > 2/ Should the holes for the fabric holding rivets be done last, or while
> > doing the initial assembly, I think it can wait until everything else is
> > riveted together.
> >
> > Frank, there is a rib fabric rivet hole drilling fixture included in the
> > fabric kit. You should drill these holes before you put the fabric on, if
> > you try to after, you will catch the fabric with the drill, & make a mess.
> >
> > Also, be sure to use a #30 drill (included with the fixture), not a 1/8th.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
For those of ya that are looking for a list of Kolb websites why don't you
start at the TNK website which has a fairly extensive list.
It's at http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/builders.htm
If you have a website that's not on that list then post the URL to this
"list" and we'll save allot of Bandwidth...
Jeremy "Hate doing things twice" Casey
jrcasey(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm feeling the same already. The 582 and mounts are on the way, have to do
instruments & cover the cage, but am already thinking about an RV8 or 9. The
wife says no way anymore planes are going to be built in the garage...it's
going to cost me more jewelry or decorating or furniture or something...
The predrilled RV's look like a lot of fun to build. I think I enjoyed the
metal work on the Kolb the most, although once throught the learning curve,
the fabric & paint was very satisfying work.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan McBride <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
>Some of the most tedious jobs in anticipation actually end up being some of
>the most satisfying tasks in retrospect. I thought about it for a while,
>and stumbled upon a way of clipping a line from the root rib to the tip,
>offset by the displacement of the drilling jig I got from Jim Miller. Then
>I drilled a row of holes, moved the line and drilled another. Ended up
>being a satisfying day, getting the wing frames perfectly ready for
>covering. Had to remember that when it came time to melt all the holes for
>the rivets.
>
>Have any of you started thinking about the next plane you'd like to build?
>Sometimes I daydream about cutting capstrips and building classic wooden
>wing ribs, gluing one up every night and cracking it loose from the jig in
>the morning, too impatient to wait until I get home from work I'm really
>looking forward to flying my Mark III, but a part of me will be sad to see
>the project finished....
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 6:20 PM
>Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Fabric
>
>
>>
>> Lar,
>>
>> Yes, all the way to the rear spar. Riveting the bottom fabric is
>necessary
>> even for those of us who who don't fly upside down ;-o
>>
>> The rivets do more than keep the fabric pulled tight to the ribs, they
>also
>> keep the ribs in column by attachment to the fabric. It creates a
>mutually
>> dependent system of the ribs holding the fabric to the correct shape and
>> also the fabric keeping the ribs in column.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of larrybiglar
>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:49 PM
>> To: Kolb
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm a little confused about the wing rib fabric rivets. I think my main
>> problem is getting rid of pre-conceived notions. 1st, on page 55, it
>> says the fabric is rivetted to the main ribs and false ribs, on the
>> BOTTOM of the wing. The bottom ?? Thought that was a positive pressure
>> area ?? The whole bottom ?? Front to back ?? Then it says, on top
>> of the wing, rivets go aft of the center of the main spar on the
>> straight section of the ribs. OK, but how far ?? All the way to the
>> rear spar ?? Confused Lar.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
> How do you recommend holding that little jig ?? I Lar.
Lar and Gang:
I don't use a jig to drill fabric rivet holes. I use a snap
punch and a good sharp drill bit. If I take my time, pay
attention to what I am doing, and don't tell myself I have
another 10 zillion holes to drill, I can do a good job.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
how about plugging the ribs with little pieces of cloth as suggested in the
manual?
the rivet heads get loose too.
-----Original Message-----
From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com <ZepRep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>The nasty part of rivet holes for fabric are all the shavings from boring
the
>holes. Even if you turn and shake the wing assy. after you drill all those
>holes, some tiny little sharp things end up poking tiny little holes in
your
>fabric. I have no clue how you could get all of them out with the fabric
>already in place. I suggest you drill them before the fabric and be
extremely
>careful blowing out the tubes with compressed air and plugging the open
ends
>of the rib tubes with cotton or cloth before covering.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
I'll send this to everyone, cause I think it's a lesson well learned.
Should know better. Yesterday afternoon, I wanted to finish the
rivet holes in the right wing, before I went to work at 3:00. I was
hurrying ( ! ! ! ) and my fingers were sore from squeezing that jig.
Shoulda walked away right then, but I'm StubBourne. Reached a little too
far for one, and couldn't see it right. Drilled anyway, and got it way off
center. Cussed, and moved the jig farther up to drill a new hole, and
drilled it too close to the bad one. They join, and make a figure 8 hole.
Doesn't seem practical to splice in a piece of tubing, and it looks like it
might be possible to drill out the gusset rivets, and replace just the top
of the rib. Oh Boy ! ! ! Disgusted Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
> how about plugging the ribs with little pieces of cloth as suggested in
the
> manual?
>
> the rivet heads get loose too.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com <ZepRep251(at)aol.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>
> >
> >The nasty part of rivet holes for fabric are all the shavings from boring
> the
> >holes. Even if you turn and shake the wing assy. after you drill all
those
> >holes, some tiny little sharp things end up poking tiny little holes in
> your
> >fabric. I have no clue how you could get all of them out with the fabric
> >already in place. I suggest you drill them before the fabric and be
> extremely
> >careful blowing out the tubes with compressed air and plugging the open
> ends
> >of the rib tubes with cotton or cloth before covering.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Just exactly the way I was doing mine, Will. I bought my jig from Jim &
Dondi, ( my kit didn't come with one.) and it came with a longer, very stiff
rod that reachs the next rib. Maybe my bit wasn't sharp enuf or something,
cause it really wanted to skate, and I really had to mash that jig, and
watch the angle of the bit very carefully. See my other post to the List.
Wiser Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WillUribe(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
> Lar,
> Here is a picture on how I held the rib drilling jig. I replaced the
small
> rod that came with the jig with a longer brazing rod that way the adjacent
> rib could help me hold the drill perpendicular to the rib, take a look.
> http://members.aol.com/FS2Kolb/178.jpg
>
> Will
>
> In a message dated 1/23/01 3:06:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com writes:
>
>
> > How do you recommend holding that little jig ?? I found out today that
> > fingers aren't enuf, and I messed up several holes; one very badly.
May
> > need to replace the tube. Lar.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
> > To: "Kolb List"
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:22 PM
> > Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, its time to get on the list and ask questions.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2/ Should the holes for the fabric holding rivets be done last, or
while
> > > doing the initial assembly, I think it can wait until everything else
is
> > > riveted together.
> > >
> > > Frank, there is a rib fabric rivet hole drilling fixture included in
the
> > > fabric kit. You should drill these holes before you put the fabric
on, if
> > > you try to after, you will catch the fabric with the drill, & make a
mess.
> > >
> > > Also, be sure to use a #30 drill (included with the fixture), not a
1/8th.
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Now you know why I prefer rib stitching...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>I'll send this to everyone, cause I think it's a lesson well learned.
>Should know better. Yesterday afternoon, I wanted to finish the
>rivet holes in the right wing, before I went to work at 3:00. I was
>hurrying ( ! ! ! ) and my fingers were sore from squeezing that jig.
>Shoulda walked away right then, but I'm StubBourne. Reached a little too
>far for one, and couldn't see it right. Drilled anyway, and got it way off
>center. Cussed, and moved the jig farther up to drill a new hole, and
>drilled it too close to the bad one. They join, and make a figure 8 hole.
>Doesn't seem practical to splice in a piece of tubing, and it looks like it
>might be possible to drill out the gusset rivets, and replace just the top
>of the rib. Oh Boy ! ! ! Disgusted Lar.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:39 AM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>
>>
>> how about plugging the ribs with little pieces of cloth as suggested in
>the
>> manual?
>>
>> the rivet heads get loose too.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com <ZepRep251(at)aol.com>
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>>
>>
>> >
>> >The nasty part of rivet holes for fabric are all the shavings from boring
>> the
>> >holes. Even if you turn and shake the wing assy. after you drill all
>those
>> >holes, some tiny little sharp things end up poking tiny little holes in
>> your
>> >fabric. I have no clue how you could get all of them out with the fabric
>> >already in place. I suggest you drill them before the fabric and be
>> extremely
>> >careful blowing out the tubes with compressed air and plugging the open
>> ends
>> >of the rib tubes with cotton or cloth before covering.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
Here is some correspondence I received off the list and wanted other
opinions.
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Ducker <FDucker(at)RampNet.com>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:04 PM
Subject: Kolb Tail.
Hi Clay,
I wanted to contact you directly as it seems that you are coming across the
exact issues I am finding on my kit.
The "D" bracket does not make much sense to me on the trailing edge, unless
it is designed to shear or something. I would have thought a gusset on the
other side would be required as well. The plans and manual have errors in it
so calling out three "D" brackets instead of two does not surprise me.
Also is the small tubing going to lie against just the top surface? Or
cross
from top to bottom. I built like the plan showed and just put it against the
top side. This is an issue on the elevator as well, where does the inner
tube attach to the leading edge.?
I'm sure putting a thicker wall inner tube in the trailing edge won't hurt,
I would also do the same on the other side, just to make the loads balance
evenly during flight.
If you do get the answer about the "D" brackets please send me a note as I
would also like to be enlightened. And I will do the same if I get the
answer. Thanks
Is there another forum beside this Kolb list your are referring to??
Regards
Frank Ducker.
My reply:
" Dear Frank,
I decided to make another gusset to fit on the opposite side of the "D"
bracket on the trailing edge. I made it in the shape of a triangle (2" on
each side) before riveting. I got an email from Bill Futrell and he didn't
use the bracket at all and placed gussets on both sides.
I don't think it matters where the small tubing is located in relation to
the surface. I can't imagine that it would have any value in holding down
or supporting the fabric in this area, but I could be wrong. The plans do
show it being just under the fabric
I was referring to the matronics list. I stumbled onto another list one
time that had a spot for Kolbs, but there was no activity. It has been
several months ago and I can't remember where it was located.
Keep in touch,
Clay Stuart"
So does it matter where the 5/16th tube braces are in relation to the top or
bottom of
the horizontal stabilizer? Do they have any value in keeping the fabric
from moving
during flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
Big Lar,
A great website. I have bookmarked it for future reference. I can
appreciate all the time that it must have taken. First rate!
I have a question. In your bending metal section you said:
"Then rivetted my ribs to the TOPS of the trailing edges of the control
sufaces, and bitterly regretted it later, when it came time to cover them.
What a miserable job, wrapping all those little bumps. I really recommend
following the tip to bend the end of the ribs, so that they fit INside the
trailing edge tube. Leaves a smooth edge that's much easier to cover. I
think it looks better too."
I have built my horizontal stabilizers. Does your reference pertain to just
the wings or should I be aware of something when building my elevators,
vertical stabilizer and rudder?
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
Danville Ky
building Mark IIIXtra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Larry,
Try JB Weld. fill the holes and redrill....
Geoff Thistlethwaite
----- Original Message -----
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
> I'll send this to everyone, cause I think it's a lesson well learned.
> Should know better. Yesterday afternoon, I wanted to finish the
> rivet holes in the right wing, before I went to work at 3:00. I was
> hurrying ( ! ! ! ) and my fingers were sore from squeezing that jig.
> Shoulda walked away right then, but I'm StubBourne. Reached a little too
> far for one, and couldn't see it right. Drilled anyway, and got it way
off
> center. Cussed, and moved the jig farther up to drill a new hole, and
> drilled it too close to the bad one. They join, and make a figure 8 hole.
> Doesn't seem practical to splice in a piece of tubing, and it looks like
it
> might be possible to drill out the gusset rivets, and replace just the top
> of the rib. Oh Boy ! ! ! Disgusted Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Sudlow" <suds77(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
>
> >
> > how about plugging the ribs with little pieces of cloth as suggested in
> the
> > manual?
> >
> > the rivet heads get loose too.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ZepRep251(at)aol.com <ZepRep251(at)aol.com>
> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
> >
> >
> > >
> > >The nasty part of rivet holes for fabric are all the shavings from
boring
> > the
> > >holes. Even if you turn and shake the wing assy. after you drill all
> those
> > >holes, some tiny little sharp things end up poking tiny little holes in
> > your
> > >fabric. I have no clue how you could get all of them out with the
fabric
> > >already in place. I suggest you drill them before the fabric and be
> > extremely
> > >careful blowing out the tubes with compressed air and plugging the open
> > ends
> > >of the rib tubes with cotton or cloth before covering.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Clay,
I'm sure you'll get some good answers on this, but I'm trying to get my 2
cents in while I can....
When I built my rudder, elevators and ailerons, I used the bent tube method
as detailed in one of the last pages of the plans. I liked the fact that the
bumps don't show and it makes it easier to cover.
Naturally I screwed a few of them up, and had to do them over. Keep the
screwed up ones as you may find another place to use the 5/16th tubing. I
ordered extra tubing. It is a little harder to do but I liked the look of
the finished pieces.
Have fun,
Geoff Thistlethwaite
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Web site
>
> Big Lar,
>
> A great website. I have bookmarked it for future reference. I can
> appreciate all the time that it must have taken. First rate!
>
> I have a question. In your bending metal section you said:
>
> "Then rivetted my ribs to the TOPS of the trailing edges of the control
> sufaces, and bitterly regretted it later, when it came time to cover them.
> What a miserable job, wrapping all those little bumps. I really
recommend
> following the tip to bend the end of the ribs, so that they fit INside the
> trailing edge tube. Leaves a smooth edge that's much easier to cover. I
> think it looks better too."
>
> I have built my horizontal stabilizers. Does your reference pertain to
just
> the wings or should I be aware of something when building my elevators,
> vertical stabilizer and rudder?
>
> Thanks,
> Clay Stuart
> Danville Ky
> building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
>
>
>Have any of you started thinking about the next plane you'd like to build?
>Sometimes I daydream about cutting capstrips and building classic wooden
>wing ribs,
Lets see now I have built and rebuilt a Kolb Flyer, Helped with an Ultra
star, Built and rebuilt a Vector or two, Twinstar, 2 Mk111's and now I am
rebuilding a Mk 111 (heavily modified). When that is done I have a replica
Avro Arrow (Canadian Fighter Jet) under construction that I have to finish
and also a Dragonfly sitting behind the hanger that needs some TLC.
Hopefully when all my projects are done I will sit back for awhile and just
fly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
>
>Now you know why I prefer rib stitching...
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Hey Lar
Once you pull the tube off see how easy it is to break. Kinda scary.
Thats why I am going to rib stitch also. I know Kolbs have been rivited for
years without a failure but .....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ski tracks from nowhere. |
| From: | Bruce L Borg <blborg(at)juno.com> |
Those ski tracks on your runway are from an Avid Flyer and a Titan. And
the tracks to your hanger were ours trying to sneak a peek at the
Firestar. We had been flying all day (250miles) first to Jewells , then
to lake pepin , skimmed the ice down the river to past Winona , over the
bluffs to your place, then to Brehms and home. A real nice day!
Missed you at the meeting. Hope things are OK.
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mell" <kitplane(at)tradezone.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | First Flight Profile |
Hi,
When it was time for the first flight of our Glasair III, we were lucky
enough to have the assistance of a NAASA test pilot. We came up with a
first flight profile check list that some of you may be able to adapt to
your first flight. Hope it helps.
You can find it at this link.
http://www.kitplaneforum.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000001.html
Trip Mellinger
Glasair III
N196G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | winter flying in the rocky mountains. |
went flying this afternoon with a friend in a fisher horizon
I and got some air to air shots of both planes and the
snow covered mountains i call home.
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/snofly.html
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Swenson" <guys(at)rrt.net> |
Hi Clay,
The manual calls for three "D" brackets and should say two. The Mark III
Classic horizontal stabilizer had three. Adding a gusset to the other side
isn't necessary, the HS's are quite strong and well built. I chose to put
the 5/16 tubes on the what would be the bottom, on both sides, I don't know
that it matters though. Just build it per the drawings, they are correct.
Look on page 21 of your drawings "Method 2" "Alternate methods for attaching
control surface ribs". This is the method I chose, it really turned out
nice.
Guy S.
MK III Xtra
Barnesville, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Stuart <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:46 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Web site
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenny Broste" <spiritmoves(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm building a Firestar, but what I believe you're referring to is the 5/16
cross members in the H. stab. They should be riveted close to the MIDDLE of
the larger leading, trailing and inner edge tubing. (so as to protrude
through the fabric as little as possible) The purpose of these is not so
much for support as to keep the fabric on the surfaces from bowing together.
In the back of the blueprints for the Firestar it describes three different
ways to do these members in the stabilizers, rudder, and elevators. If I
was to do it over I would use one of the other two methods (gussets or
bending) It'll give a cleaner line on these surfaces.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | mountain bike brakes |
The current issue (Feb) of Mountain Bike magazine has a pretty good review of light
weight disk brakes.
There is info on line at:
http://rodalepress7.cam-colo.bbnplanet.com/rodale/publish/componentfinder/ss.asp?FAM=Brakes
Wally Hofmann
Wickenburg, Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | slyck <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Hi group, food for thought....RZCruiser ($159.99) new
surfboard-shaped scooter with 150 mm diameter wheels.
tailwheels anyone? BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
I have found an easy way to make gussets. I have aviation shears and a
paper cutter as someone suggested, but the easiest way I discovered was to
take a heavy duty utility knife, score the aluminum a half a dozen times
with a very hard stroke and then break the aluminum (.032) over the edge of
a table. No bent corners, just a very flat piece of metal. Quickly touch
up the edges with the disc/belt sander and done.
By the way, I have finished the horizontal stabilizers (except covering) and
I have logged about 26 hours. Is that about average? Am I 5% finished yet?
I doubt it.
Clay Stuart
Danville KY
building Mark IIIXtra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
>
>Woody,
>
>When was/is the divorce???{:-)
The bimbo took a hike last year. Just me and the kids now. I get to
bring them up right and appreciate the finer things in life like flying and
adventure. :)
AIDS had nothing to do with it.
(Aviation induced divorce syndrome)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lay" <rv6builder(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Nearby Firestar II |
Hello all,
I have purchased a newly built Firestar II. It is near Spokane, WA,
while I live near West Palm Beach in South Florida. I hope to go get it
fairly soon, bringing it home in the back of U-Haul truck.
I am modifying a small boat trailer to carry this plane to and from the
airport. Are there any Firestar II owners nearby that would let me come
and take measurements for my trailer? Any suggestions on what should or
should not be on my trailer? Also, I searched the archives for pictures
of trailers, but found very few. Anyone have pictures that they could
e-mail me?
Thanks,
Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbrooks(at)dialpoint.net (John Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/24/01 |
When you have the entire airframe built and the flight controls rigged but no covering
done, you are about half done!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb Mark III Xtra |
I thought I would keep everyone posted. My Xtra was ordered 10/30/2000
and when I spoke with Sue today by phone she said it was going to be
shipped the first of next week. There was a holdup about 10 days ago
because the small tubing order had not arrived. She assured me there
would be a packing slip listing all tubing in that part of the shipment,
and a separate packing slip for each box that is to come by UPS.
She promised no more than EIGHT WEEKS before shipment is made on Kit
#2. That is acceptable, but I'm getting to old to wait three months for
a 6-8 week shipment. Every day counts!
(Just kidding Lar)
Julian Warren
Eugene, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thumb" <Bill-Jo(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III Xtra |
Julian you hang there, I think the Extra is the best plane out there
and it will be worth the wait. I had to wait for mine longer than I wanted
to but I am glad I did and I'm sure you will be too.
Bill Futrell
Garden City Mich
Mk111Extra Do not archine
----- Original Message -----
From: Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III Xtra
>
> I thought I would keep everyone posted. My Xtra was ordered 10/30/2000
> and when I spoke with Sue today by phone she said it was going to be
> shipped the first of next week. There was a holdup about 10 days ago
> because the small tubing order had not arrived. She assured me there
> would be a packing slip listing all tubing in that part of the shipment,
> and a separate packing slip for each box that is to come by UPS.
>
> She promised no more than EIGHT WEEKS before shipment is made on Kit
> #2. That is acceptable, but I'm getting to old to wait three months for
> a 6-8 week shipment. Every day counts!
> (Just kidding Lar)
>
> Julian Warren
> Eugene, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III Xtra |
Don't be pickin' on me Julian. You'll prob'ly be finished before me, the
rate I've been going. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Mark III Xtra
>
> I thought I would keep everyone posted. My Xtra was ordered 10/30/2000
> and when I spoke with Sue today by phone she said it was going to be
> shipped the first of next week. There was a holdup about 10 days ago
> because the small tubing order had not arrived. She assured me there
> would be a packing slip listing all tubing in that part of the shipment,
> and a separate packing slip for each box that is to come by UPS.
>
> She promised no more than EIGHT WEEKS before shipment is made on Kit
> #2. That is acceptable, but I'm getting to old to wait three months for
> a 6-8 week shipment. Every day counts!
> (Just kidding Lar)
>
> Julian Warren
> Eugene, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
I couldn't get this sent last night, so let's try again today. I think
I got the ISP problem sorted out. Since I wrote the message below,
I went ahead and injected that thing with epoxy, and it's curing now.
Tomorrow morning I'll give it heck. A local veterinarian is an EAA
member, and gave me a plastic syringe with a very thin, curved tip on
it. No metal. So, I trimmed it back to the right size for my messed up
holes, loaded it with epoxy, and did it ever work slick. Finer than
quarter sawn frog hair. :-) Also finished up the rest of the
holes on that wing today, with the method below. Works great.
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: larrybiglar
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: Rivets.
Good news ! ! ! Did a little experimenting after work today, and found
that the 'wing rib rivet hole jig' can be held solidly, and easily with
a spring "Pony" clamp. It was getting dark, but did 9 holes quickly and
accurately with little effort, and no hassle. I also played with
the figure 8 hole I did the other day, and opened it up a bit, then did
some 'careful', but fairly strong twisting and bending on it, with my
big meat hooks. Supported by the rest of the structure, it seems pretty
rigid. I'm going to go around tomorrow, and see if I can't find one of
those plastic syringe things for putting glue into small corners, etc.
Then I'll drill a piece of scrap to copy the boo-boo, and inject it for
about an inch on each side with some of that monster epoxy I still have
in the freezer. JB Weld is too thick and heavy for this, but the stuff
I have sets up like granite, pretty quickly. After it's fully cured,
I'll do some "tests to destruction" on it, and if all goes well, I'll do
a repair on the rib. Big Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Mark III Xtra |
TAKE YOUR SWEET OLD TIME,IT WILL COME OUT BETTER.THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN
A RUSH JOB.RELAX AND ENJOY BUILDING YOUR NEW BIRD. DAVE
FS II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com> |
I will be in Lake Charles LA overnight Saturday. Any Kolbs in the area?
Kip Laurie
Firestar II
Atlanta
N111KX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLIAM D BRADSHAW <PIPERJ5(at)shtc.net> |
| Subject: | Fabric rib rivet holes |
> Now you know why I prefer rib stitching...
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops
Like Richard I didn't like the idea of drilling all those1/8'' holes in
the 5/16''rib tubing. I couldn't
figure how to rib stitch the places where you can only get to one side of
the rib, so I decided to go with screws . I drilled 3/32'' holes and secured
the fabric with # 4 x 1/4 ss truss head screws. The holes were easy to
drill, and if I have to recover I should be able to reuse the screws.
Danny Bradshaw
McBee S. C.
Firestar, 503, EIS, IVO 2 blade, 25 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com> |
Has anyone ever used the "Martin Fabric Clips" to secure fabric to the
metal ribs and control surfaces. It is FAA approved for several
Certified Aircraft. I have done rib stitching and it was not difficult
to learn.
Julian Warren
Eugene, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Lar you may have already got an answer about the jig, but I used a piece of
aluminum 1/4 in thick and 2 in. wide and long enough to lay across two ribs.
Grind two groves across the 2 in width far apart as the ribs are supposed to
be so the groves cradle the ribs and always keep the bar straight. Drill your
pilot hole in the bottom of groove in the center of the bar. I hope I
explained that understandably.G.Aman FS2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Dear Kolb Airplane Builders:
I have been following this thread, reference drilling 1/8"
holes in 5/16" X .028 wall 6061 T6 Aluminum, with a lot of
interest.
I just returned from my buddy Bill Griffin's shop in
Montgomery, Alabama, where he is rebuilding his Corbin Baby
Ace, Firestar, and doing the initial build of a MK III. We
discussed the current problem stated above. The conclusion
we came to was, "Where's the problem?"
I ask this question? How many 1/8" holes are required to be
drilled in 5/6" tubing in Kolb aircraft kits other than the
wing ribs? Just a WAG, probably close to a zillion. Some
of these 1/8" holes are drilled in even smaller tubing,
1/4". A bunch of them too. Did you all have all these
problems before you got to the rib fabric rivet holes? or
did this problem exist all the way through the building
process?
A few days ago I posted a msg to the List stating I don't
use a drill bit jig, but a snap punch, a good sharp bit,
don't try to force it, and take my time. Once in a while a
bit will slip off the tube when I get in a BAH (big a__
hurry). No problem unless it gets me in the finger. That
hurts and I have the scars to prove it.
I prefer using fabric rivets over other suggested methods of
mechanically fastening the fabric to the ribs. It is fast,
simple, and not nearly as difficult as some of us are making
it out to be. I think an important factor is, IT WORKS!
In the very near future I will be drilling out the fabric
rivets in my MK III wings, pulling the old fabric and
recovering. I am not looking forward to the task, but it is
doable and I have done it before.
Take care,
john h (trying not to make a mountain out of a "fabric rivet
hole."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Last reminder: BUG Seminar tomorrow! |
>
> Tomorrow is the 2001 BUG Safety Seminar.
>
> Watch it online in Real Video, or better yet, attend in person in
> Lexington, Kentucky. Win your share of more than $1000 worth of prizes!
>
> For all the details, go to:
>
> www.BluegrassUltralightGroup.org
>
>
> -dave
>
> --
> David Hempy
> Internet Database Administrator
> Kentucky Educational Television
> -- (859)258-7164 -- (800)333-9764
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> This message brought to you by the Bluegrass Ultralight Group!
> For info, send mail to BUG-request(at)dlmail.ket.org or visit:
http://www.cvb-1.com/BUG/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
| Subject: | Answers to some fabric questions.......... |
Hi, Kolbers...
Here's some answers to some of the fabric questions you guys have had in the
last few days:
Danny Bradshaw wrote:
"I couldn't figure how to rib stitch the places where you can only get to
one side of
the rib, so I decided to go with screws . I drilled 3/32'' holes and secured
the fabric with # 4 x 1/4 ss truss head screws. The holes were easy to
drill, and if I have to recover I should be able to reuse the screws."
****Give us a call, Jim has a technique for stitching only one side of a rib
that would be easier to explain over the phone.
Julian Warren asked:
"Has anyone ever used the "Martin Fabric Clips" to secure fabric to the
metal ribs and control surfaces. It is FAA approved for several
Certified Aircraft. I have done rib stitching and it was not difficult
to learn."
****Martin Fabric clips come with a three inch spacing. The problem with
using these on the Kolb is that each "tooth" on the Martin clip protrudes
1/2 inch, and the ID of the tubing is much less than this.
John Hauck wrote:
"I have been following this thread, reference drilling 1/8"
holes in 5/16" X .028 wall 6061 T6 Aluminum, with a lot of
interest."
****John, If we didn't send you a fabric rib rivet tool, let us know, & we
will. This tool is designed by and built by Steve Green, who, by the way,
just flew his Kolb for the first time very recently........CONGRATS,
Steve!!!!
Steve- if you're lurking on the list, we've found that the rod you furnish
with the tool is the right length for the Mk III, but is too short for the
Firestar, due to the greater rib spacing. Would you mind furnishing us with
some longer ones? Would someone measure the rib spacing on the Firestar for
us?
****John, ******very important: use a #30 drill for the rivet holes, it's
.003 larger. If you use a 1/8 drill, the rivets will hang up on the hole, &
will not pull down to the fabric when you squeeze it.
Thanks,
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
www.aircrafttechsupport.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Answers to some fabric questions.......... |
> ****John, If we didn't send you a fabric rib rivet tool, let us know, & we
> will. This tool is designed by and built by Steve Green, who, by the way,
> just flew his Kolb for the first time very recently........CONGRATS,
> ****John, ******very important: use a #30 drill for the rivet holes, it's
> .003 larger. If you use a 1/8 drill, the rivets will hang up on the hole, &
> will not pull down to the fabric when you squeeze it.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
> www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
Jim, Dondi, and Kolbers:
Thanks a lot for the info. I feel like a dinosaur. It has
been 8 years since I have gotten "down and dirty" with
fabric, coatings and paint. I am sure there has been a lot
of new techniques and ideas discovered since the last time I
did any paint and fabric work. I need all the help I can
get.
I appreciate you all following the Kolb List, jumping in and
helping us out the way you do. A little of your time goes a
long way in saving us time by showing us how to do it right.
BTW: The old Stitts Manual was good, but this new Polyfiber
Manual you all sent me is a great improvement over it.
Somebody spent a lot of time to develope it at my level.
Please send me a wing rib rivet jig. Thanks.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "john todd" <toddatlucile(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling Ribs for fabric rivets. |
I have built an 86 Firestar and an 87 Mark II. On the prints and in the
instructions from Homer and Dennis there was directions on how to fabricate
a rib drilling jig for drilling the rivet holes after the fabric and
reinforcing tape are put on and the fabric was shrunk. It worked very well.
If anyone on the list is interested in it send me an e mail direct and I
will send a digital picture of it by email. John Todd Firestar #30
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Redfield <redfield(at)bitstorm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Last reminder: BUG Seminar tomorrow! |
Do not send this stuff to me anymore.
Howard Ping wrote:
>
> >
> > Tomorrow is the 2001 BUG Safety Seminar.
> >
> > Watch it online in Real Video, or better yet, attend in person in
> > Lexington, Kentucky. Win your share of more than $1000 worth of prizes!
> >
> > For all the details, go to:
> >
> > www.BluegrassUltralightGroup.org
> >
> >
> > -dave
> >
> > --
> > David Hempy
> > Internet Database Administrator
> > Kentucky Educational Television
> > -- (859)258-7164 -- (800)333-9764
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > This message brought to you by the Bluegrass Ultralight Group!
> > For info, send mail to BUG-request(at)dlmail.ket.org or visit:
> http://www.cvb-1.com/BUG/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Answers to some fabric questions.......... |
Awwww, Jim.............don't tell us this now. I just finished drilling
umpteen dozen 1/8" holes in my right wing, and have the left prepped, ready
to drill. Horrified Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Answers to some fabric questions..........
******very important: use a #30 drill for the rivet holes, it's
> .003 larger. If you use a 1/8 drill, the rivets will hang up on the hole,
&
> will not pull down to the fabric when you squeeze it.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
> www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
My impression, or understanding of the List has always been that of a
"forum" to share ideas, and help each other avoid mistakes, and do a little
better job. This was my intent when I told the List about a problem I had
with ONE hole, asked for ideas in repairing it, mentioned my ideas for
repairing it, and then, finally, what I had decided upon, as well as how to
avoid the problem to begin with. Others chose to comment back in a similar
vein. Doesn't seem to me to be a major problem. Many other experienced
people, including some on the List have looked at the construction of
Vamoose, and all have been very complimentary. Haven't seen any 1/4" tubing
on mine, that I recall, but if you're drilling dozens of accurate holes in
5/16" tubing freehand, more power to you. Most of us mortals appreciate the
added accuracy and security of a jig. Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fabric rib rivet holes
>
> Dear Kolb Airplane Builders:
>
> I have been following this thread, reference drilling 1/8"
> holes in 5/16" X .028 wall 6061 T6 Aluminum, with a lot of
> interest.
>
> I just returned from my buddy Bill Griffin's shop in
> Montgomery, Alabama, where he is rebuilding his Corbin Baby
> Ace, Firestar, and doing the initial build of a MK III. We
> discussed the current problem stated above. The conclusion
> we came to was, "Where's the problem?"
>
> I ask this question? How many 1/8" holes are required to be
> drilled in 5/6" tubing in Kolb aircraft kits other than the
> wing ribs? Just a WAG, probably close to a zillion. Some
> of these 1/8" holes are drilled in even smaller tubing,
> 1/4". A bunch of them too. Did you all have all these
> problems before you got to the rib fabric rivet holes? or
> did this problem exist all the way through the building
> process?
>
> A few days ago I posted a msg to the List stating I don't
> use a drill bit jig, but a snap punch, a good sharp bit,
> don't try to force it, and take my time. Once in a while a
> bit will slip off the tube when I get in a BAH (big a__
> hurry). No problem unless it gets me in the finger. That
> hurts and I have the scars to prove it.
>
> I prefer using fabric rivets over other suggested methods of
> mechanically fastening the fabric to the ribs. It is fast,
> simple, and not nearly as difficult as some of us are making
> it out to be. I think an important factor is, IT WORKS!
>
> In the very near future I will be drilling out the fabric
> rivets in my MK III wings, pulling the old fabric and
> recovering. I am not looking forward to the task, but it is
> doable and I have done it before.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h (trying not to make a mountain out of a "fabric rivet
> hole."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
"kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
tell me what you think of this.
take a piece of alum 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick a inch or so
wide and 12 to 18 inches long drill 3 1/8 " holes equally
spaced near 1 end. epoxy some 1/8 inch rod in the outer 2
holes. place the rods over tube to be drilled and twist
so 1 1/8 rod touches each side of the tube. the center
hole will be centered exactly over the center of the tube
and the jig is thick enough to help align the drill bit.
and with a little pressure (twisting) made easy by the long
handle it wont slip. to mark the holes i took string and
stretched it from wing root to wing tip and marked with a
felt tip pen. i placed my jig over the mark till i could
see it through the hole. piece of cake. and no holes
in fingers.
boyd
ps if the holes are drilled through on an angle the handle
is at a 90 deg to the rib to help keep it square.... i
tried to draw it in 3 dimensions. kind of limited with
keyboard graphics
______________________________________________
/______________________________________________/l
l
o l l
l
o l l
l
o l l
l______________________________________________l/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Delete now, if you're not interested in holes in wing rib
tubing ! ! !
OK Will, you asked for it, you got it, and so did everyone. Now you'll
see what pore ol' Lar goes thru, just for you guys.
The pic "Clamped" shows the easy way to hold that jig absolutely solid.
( Don't get crazy with it ) I drilled the whole rest of the wing nearly
as fast as freehand, and nary a slip. Works Great ! ! !
http://www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/07_-_clamped.jpg
"Ready for Test" shows the test piece with filled and unfilled holes
clamped across the damaged wing rib. The double hole in the rib shows
in the background.
http://www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/08_-_ready_for_test.jpg
"Unfilled - Broken" is what happened when I took the test piece by the
ends, and bent it, trying to keep more or less even pressure on both
holes, and with the holes on the outside of the curve.
http://www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/09_-_unfilled_broken.jpg
"Both - Broken" shows the epoxy filled ( for an inch or more on each
side of the hole ) hole after I put the broken end in a vice, and
started pulling. It took a LOT more pressure than the unfilled hole,
but broke before the undrilled tube was even stressed. Interestingly,
after I dropped the film off, I got musing on this whole thing, and
drilled a single hole in a length of scrap tubing. It broke ALMOST as
easily as the double drilled piece. So...................good lesson.
Don't worry about it ! ! !
http://www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/10_-_both_broken.jpg
Satisfied Lar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric rib rivet holes |
Lar and other Kolbers:
Sorry about that. Was not my intent to irritate you or
anyone else on our List. Was mearly sharing my "earthly"
ideas.
> My impression, or understanding of the List has always been that of a
> "forum" to share ideas, and help each other avoid mistakes, and do a little
> better job.
> Haven't seen any 1/4" tubing
> on mine, that I recall, but if you're drilling dozens of accurate holes in
> 5/16" tubing freehand, more power to you.
Lar, May not be on your MK III. The plans I received with
MK III SN: M3-011 show 1/4" 6061 tubing. Right off the bat,
there is a piece used to stabalize the outboard aft corner
of the wing. I think that 1/4 inch brace keeps the fabric
from pulling the that corner of the wing out of shape, er
sumthin. The Ultrastar and Firestar also used some 1/4".
> Most of us mortals appreciate the
> added accuracy and security of a jig. Big Lar.
Jim and Dondi Miller are sending me a wing rib fabric rivet
hole drilling jig. After experimenting with it a little,
maybe I can throw out some more of my ideas. :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Last reminder: BUG Seminar tomorrow! |
>
> -----
> > >
> > > Do not send this stuff to me anymore.
> > >
> > > Howard Ping wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tomorrow is the 2001 BUG Safety Seminar.
> > > > >
> >
Howard,
THANK YOU for sending this invitation!
This Seminar is located in the heart of Kolb country (70 mi from the
factory) and I carefully examined the list of speakers that will be
presenting tomorrow and recognized almost every one from Ultralight Flying
magazine and our ultralight organizations. A very impressive panel
indeed... and for FREE!
Well, I left Green Bay, WI this morning for the seminar... and tonite I
find myself in a hotel half way to Lexington, KY (300 mi from home, 300 mi
to
the seminar). I was driving thru a snow storm and my vehicle hit some
black ice
and it plunged into a ditch! I was extremely lucky to have sustained no
personal injury and expect to get a tow truck tomorrow morning. Wont be
able to make the seminar now, but was grateful for the opportunity to
'try'.
Howard, look forward to meeting you next time... and thanks again for the
invitation, which I think is more than apropriate for the Kolb community.
from Renssalier, IN
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Whoops!!!
> Make that two examples.
> john h
Sorry Gang:
The other example of rib stitching failing was on a Sling
Shot. Stitching let got on the aft inboard of the first two
or three ribs on the left wing and a rib or two on the right
wing. Probably cause: Not enough stitching in the area of
the prop area. The fix: Replaced stitching with fabric
rivets on the for four or so ribs each wing, inboard of
course.
Sorry I forgot that, but it is getting late at hauck's
holler and I should not attempt to write emails when I am
tired.
Good night.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Fabric rivet jig |
Some one asked about a longer rod that would reach across the ribs on a
FireStar. I went to my local hardware store and bought a piece of 3/16
inch rod 36 inches long. Sanded it down a little and cut it to about 24
inches. It spans the ribs easily. I then used JB weld to make some
inserts on two spring clamps. One clamps has a 5/16 half moon glued on
to one jaw and the other jaw I left flat. This clamp holds the jig to
the rib. The other clamp has a 5/16 half moon on one jaw and a 3/16
half moon set 90 degrees off of the 5/16 half moon on the other jaw.
This clamp holds the 3/16 rod to the adjacent rib. I made these inserts
by drilling some fiber board, then cutting them through the middle of
the hole. The clamps that I use have the swivel jaws. I used JB weld
to lock the jaws in place, using some scrap tubing to get the proper
spacing. Took about 15 minutes to make and over night for the JB weld
to set. Works great. Well worth the time. I get these clamps from
Lowe's in sets of 14 for $9.95 so cost is not a factor. If I new how to
include pictures, I would but computer illiterate you know,
Ron Payne
Gilbertsville, Ky
Building FireStar II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
I am going to attempt to construct my elevators and rudder with the curved
tubing method on the trailing edges. In my practice attempts, I have been
unable to get a short 90 degree bend without some slight flattening of the
tubing. The tubing is not kinking, but is maybe 1/16" wider (taller) in the
curve as the elevator lies on the table.
To me, it would appear that this would not weaken the tubing in this area,
and if any difference, possibly make it stronger for up and down stresses,
or in the case of the rudder, port and starboard pressures. What do you
think? Probably of no consequence?
I ordered the the tubing bender from Aircraft Spruce that Big Lar recommends
on his website, only to realize it was only good up to 1/4" tubing. I have
written him so he can correct his part number. I should have caught the
error before I placed the order. I was able to take a 5/16" drill bit and
channel out the 1/4" to fit the tubing, so I think I may still have the
flattening anyway. I'll check out Harbour Freight today for another larger
one.
Clay Stuart
Danville KY
building Mark IIIXtra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Here's the website for Hipec if anybody is interested....Ed Steuber
http://www.agt.net/public/falconar/Hipec.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: bending tubing |
Agree. Probably of no consequence.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>I am going to attempt to construct my elevators and rudder with the curved
>tubing method on the trailing edges. In my practice attempts, I have been
>unable to get a short 90 degree bend without some slight flattening of the
>tubing. The tubing is not kinking, but is maybe 1/16" wider (taller) in the
>curve as the elevator lies on the table.
>
>
>To me, it would appear that this would not weaken the tubing in this area,
>and if any difference, possibly make it stronger for up and down stresses,
>or in the case of the rudder, port and starboard pressures. What do you
>think? Probably of no consequence?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
I started assembling my main landing gear parts today. I have the heel
drum brakes. The only drawing that could find any information as to
orientation of the brake pad plate was on drawing number 19. This is a
FireStar II. This drawing shows the ears on the plate facing forward
with the cam arm at the rear of the wheel. This will result in the
brake cable coming out of the brake housing to the front. That will
leave the cable flapping in the breeze out in front of the landing gear
leg. It will also be in the way when getting into or out of the plane.
Any comments will be appreciated. I wanted to get this thing on its
wheels today but I don't want to make a mistake and I can't talk to Kolb
till Monday.
Ron Payne
Gilbertsville, Ky.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Currie <bnb(at)erols.com> |
You can take the came lever arm of one brake plate and put it back on
180 degress from its original position. (The cam expands the brake pad
moving in either direction You will have to bend the lever arm alittle
to be the mirror image of the one on the other side.. This will give
you a right and left plate with the cables coming in from the back. I
am building a Firestare II and about halfway through the covering
process. Bob Currie Hollywood Maryland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending tubing |
Clay, I even checked the catalog, before I put that number on my site. I am
very, very sorry, and is my face ever red ! ! ! Before I answered this, I
went into my site and changed the number to the correct p/n # 368FH, so that
I can say it's done, instead of maybe someday.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: bending tubing
> ?
>
> I ordered the the tubing bender from Aircraft Spruce that Big Lar
recommends
> on his website, only to realize it was only good up to 1/4" tubing. I
have
> written him so he can correct his part number. I should have caught the
> error before I placed the order. I was able to take a 5/16" drill bit and
> channel out the 1/4" to fit the tubing, so I think I may still have the
> flattening anyway. I'll check out Harbour Freight today for another
larger
> one.
>
> Clay Stuart
> Danville KY
> building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
While changing the tubing bender part no. on my site, I went ahead and
added 4 more pages that I've been working on. I hope you enjoy them.
Big Lar.
http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
You'd think, after all this time, that I'd remember my own address. Try
this one....................
----- Original Message -----
From: "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 1:02 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Web Site
>
> While changing the tubing bender part no. on my site, I went ahead and
> added 4 more pages that I've been working on. I hope you enjoy them.
> Big Lar.
> http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHe1144783(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Hegar Wheels |
I have Hegar 6 inch wheels and I understand that they have a "Tubeless Kit".
I suppose it is an O-ring for the split rim but cant seem to locate Hegars
website or a place that offers the "Kit". Anyone got a clue ? Id like to go
tubeless. Kris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:Hegar Wheels |
| From: | Robert L Doebler <robertdoebler(at)juno.com> |
>
> I have Hegar 6 inch wheels and I understand that they have a
> "Tubeless Kit".
> I suppose it is an O-ring for the split rim but cant seem to locate
> Hegars
> website or a place that offers the "Kit". Anyone got a clue ? Id
> like to go
> tubeless. Kris
>
> I got mine from LEAF Aircraft
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHe1144783(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Trainer Tires |
Guys: Whats the differance between Aero Trainer Tires and say; Air Hawk tires
? The Air Hawk is $ 60.00 ea. and 4 ply. The Aero Trainer is $ 36.00 and 6
ply !! More confusing is that they are both McCreary brand. Am I missing
something ? Im not a Rocket scientist------Butttttt. Kris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)state.mi.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Answers to some fabric questions.......... |
I used a #30 drill for the whole air plane the rivets go in so much easer. For
the fabric rivets in the wing it is much more important. You predrill all your
holes, you put glue all around and some in the holes when installing the fabric,
you then use a pencil tip soldering iron to form the hole in the fabric sometimes
pushing more into these holes. Then you want to seat the fabric rivets
as flush as possible to the fabric with the potential of fabric strands and
glue in a already tight hole. You are pushing the rivets into a small tube already
weakened by the hole and the taunt fabric sometimes pulling the same direction
you are pushing to seat the rivet.
No none of us want to hear the wining that BigLar would be doing if he bent a rib
on a nearly completed wing.
Rick Neilsen
VW powered MKIII
>>> larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com 01/26/01 08:03PM >>>
Awwww, Jim.............don't tell us this now. I just finished drilling
umpteen dozen 1/8" holes in my right wing, and have the left prepped, ready
to drill. Horrified Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 2:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Answers to some fabric questions..........
******very important: use a #30 drill for the rivet holes, it's
> .003 larger. If you use a 1/8 drill, the rivets will hang up on the hole,
&
> will not pull down to the fabric when you squeeze it.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jim & Dondi Miller
> Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
> Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
> (Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
> Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
> www.aircrafttechsupport.com
> E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | FIRESTAR II HOR.STAB. AND ELEVATOR |
RIB TOP VIEW:ROUND AND CHAMFER ENDS OF ALL RIBS (EXCEPT REAR OF DIAG.RIBS &
REAR OF 10 1/4" RIBS). WHAT 10 1/4" RIBS ARE THEY INDICATING ? THANKS, DAVE
LONG BRANCH N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com> |
Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching. I am close to
covering a Cassutt Racer that I have been building for 2 years and am
investigating this option.It actually glues the fabric to the ribs or
whatever after the fabric is tightened. Very simple and very strong!
Hipec rep said no problem for redline of Cassutt ( 350+ mph) If this is
true, then I think it would pass muster for any Kolb unless somebody
installs a jet. A friend of mine ( 280+ ) saw this at Osh Kosh a few
years back and the demonstrator invited him to stand on the fabric
inside a mockup wing panel so the fabric was being pushed away from the
rib.... NO PROBLEM ! ! Anybody out there got any input ? I'm ordering a
manual today from the company in Alberta Canada and will let you know
what the results are after some testing of my own. I think it has been
approved for some Canadian standard category aircraft which is proof
enough if you know anything about mintenance standards there. Here's
their site if interested.....And no, I don't sell the stuff or have
interest in the company........Cropduster Ed ,Western NY.....BRRRRR !
http://www.agt.net/public/falconar/Hipec.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
I have a lot of my FireStar held together with temporary hardware store
bolts. I will switch these out to the good stuff at final assembly. I
have not found any charts giving bolt torque settings in the Kolb manual
or in any of their drawings. It seems to me that this might be of some
importance. What are the rest of you doing when you install the AN
bolts?
Ron Payne
Building FireStar II
Gilbertsville, Ky.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
I think I would wait and give this thing a little more time before I trusted
my life to it. I have heard of some tragic accidents caused by glued fabric
coming loose even after 10 or more years of service. Not referring to HIPEC
though. I like the stuff that has passed the test of time. A lot of time.
Ron Payne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 11:31 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: HIPEC
>
> Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
> about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching. I am close to
> covering a Cassutt Racer that I have been building for 2 years and am
> investigating this option.It actually glues the fabric to the ribs or
> whatever after the fabric is tightened. Very simple and very strong!
> Hipec rep said no problem for redline of Cassutt ( 350+ mph) If this is
> true, then I think it would pass muster for any Kolb unless somebody
> installs a jet. A friend of mine ( 280+ ) saw this at Osh Kosh a few
> years back and the demonstrator invited him to stand on the fabric
> inside a mockup wing panel so the fabric was being pushed away from the
> rib.... NO PROBLEM ! ! Anybody out there got any input ? I'm ordering a
> manual today from the company in Alberta Canada and will let you know
> what the results are after some testing of my own. I think it has been
> approved for some Canadian standard category aircraft which is proof
> enough if you know anything about mintenance standards there. Here's
> their site if interested.....And no, I don't sell the stuff or have
> interest in the company........Cropduster Ed ,Western NY.....BRRRRR !
>
> http://www.agt.net/public/falconar/Hipec.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
> about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching.
Cropduster Ed ,Western
NY.....BRRRRR !
Ed and Gang:
Kolb Aircraft has been using the same system of fabric
rivets since the early 80's. I covered my first one in
1984. It is a simple, serviceable, proven reliable system.
After 8 years, I will be getting my hands dirty again with
poly tak and Poly Brush and all the other hazardous
chemicals. I can't wait. I enjoy the covering process,
just always glad when that last cup of Aerothane is shot and
dried.
Personally, I recommend using the tried and true system that
is outlined in the Kolb Construction Manual for your
particular model.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
>
>Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
>about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching.
I used Hipec on my Twinstar. At least the sun coat. The other coats I
used a generic equivalent from the Hipec supplier. Any automotive colour
you want can be used. Some of the colour coat peeled off the gap seal on
the ailerons and it was extremely flexible almost had to bend it in half to
break it. They could not substitute the sun coat which adheres the fabric
to the wing. You will also need to use the alodine treatment before gluing.
The rumour is that the glue they use is contact cement and heating of the
iron sets it permanent. I did test samples and was happy with the result.
Yes the fabric could be peeled off but using the laws of leverage there is
a lot of force peeling this stuff apart. Any air induced loads would not be
able to pull this stuff off.All things considered if the Canadian D.O.T.
says it is okay for aircraft use I would trust it on my aircraft. In my
humble Canadian opinion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
Kolbers,
I need four rubber motor mounts for my Mk-3, the ones that use an AN-6
bolt through the center. Anyone have extras for sale?
Thanks
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <duncan.mcbride(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I'd call Kolb. Even though I got my engine from somebody else, they've been
real nice about helping out with motor mounts, prop extension, and exhaust
and other parts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Lord mounts
>
> Kolbers,
> I need four rubber motor mounts for my Mk-3, the ones that use an AN-6
> bolt through the center. Anyone have extras for sale?
> Thanks
> Denny
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
Hi Kolbers,
Thought I'd give you all an update on the progress being made at the
Rowe airplane factory.
My partner Jay Swagger and I just came home from Charlotte Saterday
evening, the new owners of a 2SI 690L-70 engine.
We decided to buy the engine that I mentioned on the list a little while
back.
Now that we have an engine, I'll be applying for our N number soon.
I am quickly running out of things to do before we finish the covering,
but the engine mounts should keep me busy for a little while.
I'll be sending Julian photos for his webpage as things progress.
I am going to try to locate a set of dual radiators from a motorcycle or
snowmobile to do the cooling.
I was wondering how much you folks with 2 strokes had to raise your
engines to allow you to swing the 72 inch props?
Take Care,
Denny Rowe PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aero Trainer Tires |
Just quessing: maybe the Air Hawk tires are for certified aircraft. I have
Aero-trainers on my Corbin, but I have a friend with a Cub who can't use them
and be legal.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:EAA Skiplane Fly-in |
Hi Guys,
Saturday i flew to the Iola wisc. skiplane fly-in . This was an official
cross country so i filed a vfr flight plan and took off. The oat was around
10 degrees and i had 106 miles to go.After around 30 minutes i started
getting cold and after an hour i really started shaking so i landed in a
corn field to walk around. The snow was pretty deep so i could land anywhere.
then i took off,landed at Iola and looked at lots of planes,ate chili and
refueled.I was running out of time so i took off into some nasty headwinds
and headed home but i could only make 55 mph groundspeed at full throttle at
85mph airspeed and i was running out of time.I wanted to land to warm up but
it was getting dark so i pressed on and was shaking so hard i could hardly
fly the plane. Lessons learned were don't push so hard-this is for fun and
leave plenty of time to get home. I found out that flying is more fun when i
am relaxed and comfortable. Next flight won't be so far. This summer's xc
will be to Mountain Home Arkansas and i have a lot to learn before then. The
good news is that my FSII held up just fine.
take care,
John Bruzan FSII EIS BRS 503scdi full enclosure no heat! Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:EAA Skiplane Fly-in |
Lessons learned were don't push so hard-this is for fun
and
> leave plenty of time to get home. I found out that flying is more fun when i
> am relaxed and comfortable. Next flight won't be so far. This summer's xc
> will be to Mountain Home Arkansas and i have a lot to learn before then. The
> good news is that my FSII held up just fine.
> take care,
> John Bruzan FSII EIS BRS 503scdi full enclosure no heat! Chicago
John and Gang:
Damn good lessons learned. This is one of the best bennies
of this List is listening and learning from others,
especially mistakes, so we do not have to necessarily repeat
them. Friends, I pay attention to every mistake that is
made and shared on this List, and any other area I can
obtain them. I read the FAA Accident Briefs every morning
Mon-Fri, and the NTSB Accident Summaries if and when they
update their web page. My personal philosophy is I can
always learn something else or be reminded of something I
have forgotten that may save my buns some where down the
road. I learn from new guys and "old dogs" as well. One of
the best lessons I learned last summer after my failed
flight and aprx 3 weeks into the recovery of Miss P'fer was
that big ass grin on John Bruzan's face when he landed at
Oshkosh. That told it all. Thanks John.
If I had known you were gonna do a cross country like that
one I would have loaned you my new Chilli Vest that I have
not had a chance to test yet. It should operate just fine
off a 503 alternator. Uses very little 12vdc power.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
If I remember right, doesn't a Cassutt have wood wings and ribs? I would
think that the ability of glue to bond to wood is a lot greater than
it's ability to hold onto round aluminum tubing. I would stick with
a mechanical attachment of some sort.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
>about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching. I am close to
>covering a Cassutt Racer that I have been building for 2 years and am
>investigating this option.It actually glues the fabric to the ribs or
>whatever after the fabric is tightened. Very simple and very strong!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Answers to some fabric questions.......... |
I'm pleased to say that the rivet holes are all drilled on both wings, with
a #30, and am waiting on my A&P to come get them and return the finished
tail feathers. See.........hardly any squawking at all. However,
yesterday, I was flipping a wing over on the table, and dropped it. Put a
small dent out near the end of the leading edge tube. Wasn't no snivelling
over that, but sure was plenty of bellerin' and cussin', and roaring. Now I
can't find the lightweight blue filler I bought 4 yrs ago. Always
something..................... Lar. Do not
Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)state.mi.us>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Answers to some fabric questions..........
>
> I used a #30 drill for the whole air plane the rivets go in so much easer.
For the fabric rivets in the wing it is much more important. You predrill
all your holes, you put glue all around and some in the >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build update |
In a message dated 1/28/01 6:22:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rowedl(at)alltel.net writes:
> I was wondering how much you folks with 2 strokes had to raise your
>
I swing a 72 inch powerfin. I inverted my Lord mounts and set the 2
inch aluminum "rails" provided by the factory on top of them. On top of the
rails goes the factory mounting plate. I have about an inch and a half of
clearance from the fuse tube.
Mark R. Sellers
Kolb Twinstar Mark III
N496BM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Leiter <ggleiter(at)minn.net> |
Ron or Mary Payne wrote:
>
>
> I think I would wait and give this thing a little more time before I trusted
> my life to it. I have heard of some tragic accidents caused by glued fabric
> coming loose even after 10 or more years of service. Not referring to HIPEC
> though. I like the stuff that has passed the test of time. A lot of time.
>
> Ron Payne
You are obviously talking about rib stitching. Nothing else has had as
long and successful a test of time. Course, Martin clips, PK screws,
or pop rivets are the equivalent.
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Leiter <ggleiter(at)minn.net> |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> > Hey everybody, I'm still looking for an FS2 project and been reading
> > about your problems with pop rivets or rib stitching.
> Cropduster Ed ,Western
> NY.....BRRRRR !
>
> Ed and Gang:
>
> Kolb Aircraft has been using the same system of fabric
> rivets since the early 80's. I covered my first one in
> 1984. It is a simple, serviceable, proven reliable system.
> After 8 years, I will be getting my hands dirty again with
> poly tak and Poly Brush and all the other hazardous
> chemicals. I can't wait. I enjoy the covering process,
> just always glad when that last cup of Aerothane is shot and
> dried.
>
> Personally, I recommend using the tried and true system that
> is outlined in the Kolb Construction Manual for your
> particular model.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
A number of years ago I talked with the Hipec at Oshkosh (have not seen
them there for a good while). I asked what information they had
concerning the minimum width of the capstrips vs airspeed to insure the
integrity of the adhesive method. He answered me that "It doesn't
matter. No minimum to the width of the cap strips is required. Any
width will be plenty strong". Well, that is clearly a ridiculous
answer. It might well be plenty strong with capstrips of widths
NORMALLY used on aircraft, but there MUST be a minimum (one could take
it to the limit when the capstrip width is LESS than the size of the
adhesive molecule, for example). A technical point, but he would have
been much more believable if he had said something like " Just as long
as the capstrip is 1/4" or wider". I really got the impression that
they DO NOT actually have solid data for this issue. During my working
years we had one motto "In God we trust. All others must have data".
gil leiter
MAPLEWOOD, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Trainer Tires |
Not sure, buttttt the aero trainers work very well on my FireStar and I
highly recommend them. They are easily balanced (mine required no wheel
weights at all) and don't shake the plane after lift off.
Dave
El Paso
-----Original Message-----
From: KHe1144783(at)aol.com <KHe1144783(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aero Trainer Tires
>
>Guys: Whats the differance between Aero Trainer Tires and say; Air Hawk
tires
>? The Air Hawk is $ 60.00 ea. and 4 ply. The Aero Trainer is $ 36.00 and 6
>ply !! More confusing is that they are both McCreary brand. Am I missing
>something ? Im not a Rocket scientist------Butttttt. Kris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HD Mitchell" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | FireFly Flight Report |
Met with a Kitfox-flying friend at the Panacea airport for some aerial joyriding
on Saturday and had a great time cavorting through the space over the beautiful
Ochlockonee bay.
I have been looking for ways to improve my the effectiveness of my "draggy" Matco
brakes. Someone on this site suggested a little lubrication might help. Light
oil on the brake shoe operating arm, cable and brake lever hingepoint really
did help. I was careful not to get any oil on the shoes (no spraying of WD-40
on everything in sight). Lubricating has relieved me of buying a whole new
system for now. Those hydraulic disk brakes look like they may be the best bet
next time around or on my next plane.
My FireFly has always had a nose-down tendancy in flight. I have adjusted the flaperons
to the max up or reflexed position, added an elevator trim tab and a
spring at the bottom of the stick. The elevators were reflexed so much that one
notch of flaperons brought them down to just about even with the bottom of the
wing. She flew with no nose down tendency but I was always nervous about that
much reflex in the flaperons. During Saturday's flight I wanted to see what
my elevator position was while I was flying at cruise. I set the flaps to the
one notch position (no reflex) measured the distance between the front of the
seat and the back of the stick during level flight. After landing I set the stick
in that same location and observed the position of the elevators. The deflection
was barely
detectable! I reset the flaperons to almost no reflex and went on with the day's
flying knowing that my elevators were not in a down position and
causing unnessary drag. Some stick backpressure is required but it is minimal and
probably controllable with the throttle-setting/thrust-line effect.
After spotting some possible emergency landing spots in the area I drove
to each site the next day. The old saying that you should never try to land in
a field where you have not walked was confirmed. Some of those that looked good
from the air were webbed with power lines, guy cables etc and or had tall trees
at both ends. Others were not bad when seen from the
ground.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, 447, Ivo
"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending tubing |
I decide to make my elevator trailing edge one piece of aluminum and when it
came to bending, an old timer told me to fill the tubing with sand (fine
grain), cap both ends with bolts and bend away. You get alot less
flattening. By the way, don't forget to drain the sand!
Kip Laurie
Firestar II
Atlanta
N111KX
----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Stuart <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 8:17 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: bending tubing
>
> I am going to attempt to construct my elevators and rudder with the curved
> tubing method on the trailing edges. In my practice attempts, I have been
> unable to get a short 90 degree bend without some slight flattening of the
> tubing. The tubing is not kinking, but is maybe 1/16" wider (taller) in
the
> curve as the elevator lies on the table.
>
>
> To me, it would appear that this would not weaken the tubing in this area,
> and if any difference, possibly make it stronger for up and down stresses,
> or in the case of the rudder, port and starboard pressures. What do you
> think? Probably of no consequence?
>
> I ordered the the tubing bender from Aircraft Spruce that Big Lar
recommends
> on his website, only to realize it was only good up to 1/4" tubing. I
have
> written him so he can correct his part number. I should have caught the
> error before I placed the order. I was able to take a 5/16" drill bit and
> channel out the 1/4" to fit the tubing, so I think I may still have the
> flattening anyway. I'll check out Harbour Freight today for another
larger
> one.
>
> Clay Stuart
> Danville KY
> building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
You want the Facet down low, preferably level with the fuel pick-up point.
Put the Mikuni in line with it, the Facet will pump through the Mikuni.
When the Facet is turned off, the Mikuni should still pull through it.
If not, check the Mikuni for going bad.
I have a switch on the panel to turn the Facet on and off, part of the
pre take off check list is to verify that the engine will run on just the
Mikuni,
and there is a fuel pressure gauge with the pickup located between the
two pumps, so it tells me if the Facet is working also. Facet makes a
pump that puts out around 3-5 psi, that is the one you want.
I let the Facet run continuously during flight.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Once inside the hanger I
>started trouble shooting the fuel system and discovered that my duel mikuni
>fuel pump was barely working. First thing this morning, I am ordering a
>faucet pump and a rebuild kit for the mikuni. Question is, how do you
>arrange the two pumps? Do you place the electric above or below the pulse
>pump? If below, will it pump through the mikuni should it fail?
>Your collective opinions are appreciated
>Dave
>FS2
>El Paso
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Artdog1512(at)aol.com |
> Subject: Kolb-List: HIPEC
>
> >
>
> i've never worked with the stuff so i can't pass judgement. i guess i
> would be a little leary about depending solely on glue to hold the fabric
> to the ribs. on the other hand we have to accept that technology moves on.
> we shouldn't pass judgement too soon. maybe this Hipec stuff really works,
> we'll have to wait and see. ............. tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com> |
I am in the process of building an enclosure for my Firestar, which requires
a lot of tube bending. All of the lose sand her in Minnesota is frozen like
a rock, or you could steal some out of the back of a DOT sanding truck, so I
have used number 7-1/2 lead shot for reloading shotgun shells. It works
great. Duct tape one end shut, put a funnel in the other end, fill with
shot, duct tape shut, and bend away.
The Flying Farmer
-----Original Message-----
From: dama [mailto:dama(at)mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bending tubing
I decide to make my elevator trailing edge one piece of aluminum and when it
came to bending, an old timer told me to fill the tubing with sand (fine
grain), cap both ends with bolts and bend away. You get alot less
flattening. By the way, don't forget to drain the sand!
Kip Laurie
Firestar II
Atlanta
N111KX
----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Stuart <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 8:17 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: bending tubing
>
> I am going to attempt to construct my elevators and rudder with the curved
> tubing method on the trailing edges. In my practice attempts, I have been
> unable to get a short 90 degree bend without some slight flattening of the
> tubing. The tubing is not kinking, but is maybe 1/16" wider (taller) in
the
> curve as the elevator lies on the table.
>
>
> To me, it would appear that this would not weaken the tubing in this area,
> and if any difference, possibly make it stronger for up and down stresses,
> or in the case of the rudder, port and starboard pressures. What do you
> think? Probably of no consequence?
>
> I ordered the the tubing bender from Aircraft Spruce that Big Lar
recommends
> on his website, only to realize it was only good up to 1/4" tubing. I
have
> written him so he can correct his part number. I should have caught the
> error before I placed the order. I was able to take a 5/16" drill bit and
> channel out the 1/4" to fit the tubing, so I think I may still have the
> flattening anyway. I'll check out Harbour Freight today for another
larger
> one.
>
> Clay Stuart
> Danville KY
> building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHe1144783(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Trainer Tires |
In a message dated 1/28/01 7:00:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, ULDAD(at)aol.com
writes:
<<
Just quessing: maybe the Air Hawk tires are for certified aircraft. >>
I think your right. Only answer that makes sense. My truck tires would run
about double the price if the FAA got hold of the DOT's job. Does Firestone
make aircraft tires ? Never mind. Kris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Mark-lll flight report |
I had the pleasure of having Larry Cottrel and his bride visit with me over
the weekend. They are from Klamath Falls, OR & were in the Corvallis, OR
area attending a Falcon hunters club meeting. Because of his hundreds of
hours of experience in a Kolb Firestar-ll/447, I had asked if he would fly
my Mark-lll so that he could evaluate its performance compared to his plane.
Saturday morning was clear and very cold, and Larry felt more comfortable if
we both went up together, since he wasn't familiar with the area.
In Larry's opinion the plane flew very typically 'Kolb', except for the
tendancy to push nose down during high throttle settings for climb or
cruise. We nearly ran out of elevator when the engine was pulling hard, but
flew nearly hands off at about 4200. Not bad, concidering we had about 450
#s of beef aboard.
Larry thinks the engine should be raised in either the front or the rear (we
couldn't think which it should be) to overcome this tendandy. He said that
his Firestar-ll pulls the nose up (or nearly so) with full throttle, and
nose down when throttle is reduced. I have always thought that an engine in
the pusher configuration caused the nose down with power, and nose up
without.
Anyone have a suggestion for the engine attitude in relation to the engine
mount on the cage?. Currently I have the engine mounted at the exact level
of the engine mount, using washers to raise the engine a bit for prop
clearance.
Ron & Jan Carroll
EAA Chapter 292
Independence, OR
Home of
The Noon Patrol
______!______
-------( / )-------
" "
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mark-lll flight report |
In a message dated 1/29/01 10:18:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ron.carroll(at)att.net writes:
> Larry thinks the engine should be raised in either the front or the rear (we
> couldn't think which it should be) to overcome this tendandy. He said that
> his Firestar-ll pulls the nose up (or nearly so) with full throttle, and
> nose down when throttle is reduced. I have always thought that an engine in
> the pusher configuration caused the nose down with power, and nose up
> without.
>
> Anyone have a suggestion for the engine attitude in relation to the engine
> mount on the cage?. Currently I have the engine mounted at the exact level
> of the engine mount, using washers to raise the engine a bit for prop
> clearance.
>
>
> Ron & Jan Carroll
>
Have you tried readjusting the effective CL (center of Lift) by changing the
settings on the ailerons yet?...just a thought
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending tubing |
I think I'd do some test pieces. Many years ago, I saw that done on big
pipes in a shipyard, and it worked great. I do remember them heating the
bend with a Huge Torch. Also many years ago, I tried it on a project of my
own, using small diameter copper tubing, and I couldn't pack the sand tight
enuf in the small stuff. Tubing collapsed anyway. My feeling is
that..........1/16"..........so what ?? The fabric comes from a larger
leading edge tube to a small trailing edge tube, so will be slightly farther
apart where it covers the bend in the rib. Seems to me it should hide that
tiny bulge. Anyone ?? I feel real bad about that wrong number in my
website, and it has already been changed. Sorry again, Clay.
Big Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: bending tubing
>
> I am in the process of building an enclosure for my Firestar, which
requires
> a lot of tube bending. All of the lose sand her in Minnesota is frozen
like
> a rock, or you could steal some out of the back of a DOT sanding truck, so
I
> have used number 7-1/2 lead shot for reloading shotgun shells. It works
> great. Duct tape one end shut, put a funnel in the other end, fill with
> shot, duct tape shut, and bend away.
>
> The Flying Farmer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dama [mailto:dama(at)mindspring.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:42 AM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bending tubing
>
>
> I decide to make my elevator trailing edge one piece of aluminum and when
it
> came to bending, an old timer told me to fill the tubing with sand (fine
> grain), cap both ends with bolts and bend away. You get alot less
> flattening. By the way, don't forget to drain the sand!
> Kip Laurie
> Firestar II
> Atlanta
> N111KX
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Clay Stuart <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 8:17 AM
> Subject: Kolb-List: bending tubing
>
>
> >
> > I am going to attempt to construct my elevators and rudder with the
curved
> > tubing method on the trailing edges. In my practice attempts, I have
been
> > unable to get a short 90 degree bend without some slight flattening of
the
> > tubing. The tubing is not kinking, but is maybe 1/16" wider (taller) in
> the
> > curve as the elevator lies on the table.
> >
> >
> > To me, it would appear that this would not weaken the tubing in this
area,
> > and if any difference, possibly make it stronger for up and down
stresses,
> > or in the case of the rudder, port and starboard pressures. What do you
> > think? Probably of no consequence?
> >
> > I ordered the the tubing bender from Aircraft Spruce that Big Lar
> recommends
> > on his website, only to realize it was only good up to 1/4" tubing. I
> have
> > written him so he can correct his part number. I should have caught the
> > error before I placed the order. I was able to take a 5/16" drill bit
and
> > channel out the 1/4" to fit the tubing, so I think I may still have the
> > flattening anyway. I'll check out Harbour Freight today for another
> larger
> > one.
> >
> > Clay Stuart
> > Danville KY
> > building Mark IIIXtra
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
Aircraft Spruce has the best price I have seen on the Facet pumps. Cheaper
than JC Whitney.
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Pump
>
> You want the Facet down low, preferably level with the fuel pick-up point.
> Put the Mikuni in line with it, the Facet will pump through the Mikuni.
> When the Facet is turned off, the Mikuni should still pull through it.
> If not, check the Mikuni for going bad.
> I have a switch on the panel to turn the Facet on and off, part of the
> pre take off check list is to verify that the engine will run on just the
> Mikuni,
> and there is a fuel pressure gauge with the pickup located between the
> two pumps, so it tells me if the Facet is working also. Facet makes a
> pump that puts out around 3-5 psi, that is the one you want.
> I let the Facet run continuously during flight.
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Once inside the hanger I
> >started trouble shooting the fuel system and discovered that my duel
mikuni
> >fuel pump was barely working. First thing this morning, I am ordering a
> >faucet pump and a rebuild kit for the mikuni. Question is, how do you
> >arrange the two pumps? Do you place the electric above or below the
pulse
> >pump? If below, will it pump through the mikuni should it fail?
> >Your collective opinions are appreciated
> >Dave
> >FS2
> >El Paso
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Glen Aubrey" <kgaubrey(at)hotmail.com> |
John Bruzan FSII EIS BRS 503scdi full enclosure no heat! Chicago
John
I live In Cedar Rapids IA, I have been flying at lot this winter in temps
around 15. All you need for a heater is a couple of 4" dryer hoses and a
couple of wire ties. I put one dryer hose in each of the holes on top the
engine where the HOT air escapes and run them to the top on my back seat. If
you don't carry a passenger you can run them all the way to the front seat.
It puts out a lot of nice and warm air enough that I normally don't wear
gloves. Just one of the advantages of air cooled engine in the winter.
Stay Warm
Glen
FSII Full Enclosed with Heat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
I finished my propeller extension this weekend. The design was set at 2.5"
extension by the bolts I obtained (140mm). It turned out very nice, I am
quite pleased. Runout measures under .0005". It has the Rotax 75mm bolt
pattern thru-holes, drilled to fit 8mm bolt shanks very closely. This
first one took me 15 hours of work and math and head-scratching, I think
the next one would take only ten hours (less scratching).
Basic process: saw end of 2024 t4 billet off to 2 3/4". Mill flat, both
sides. Layout and drill 1/4" holes on 100 mm diameter pattern, four holes,
1" deep. On bench, tap holes to 5/16-18. Saw off extra material at
corners to speed lathe operations. Mount to lathe faceplate. In lathe,
face to check mill operation (perfect). Cut Rotax safety 1" hub (male)
feature, cut face remaining, cut round to Rotax hub diameter. Center-drill
mark center. Polish for appearance. Back to mill, using DRO and
Machinery's Handbook tables, layout 6x75mm diameter Rotax mounting hole
pattern, centerdrill, drill to 3/16" nearly all the way through (save the
milling table), drill to 5/16". Drill center in steps to 1/2", only
penetrate halfway through the material. Counterbore all holes. Back to
lathe, four-jaw chuck, mount (backside outward this time) using protective
soft aluminum wrap, setup for less than .0005" runout on face and OD. Cut
1" Rotax safety centering hub feature (female), will meet up with 1/2" hole
drilled down from top at approx halfway mark. Sand, polish. On
drillpress, finish holes last 1/8", ream to fit 8mm bolts perfectly. Check
fit to Rotax hub. Admire, drink beer.
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Giacometto" <brittani(at)mcn.net> |
Hi I'm New to this area, just bought a completed FSII. With all the talk
about rivets and tubes and rivets and tubes, who out there has the
ultimate rivet removal method? tailwheel come in contact with rudder on
trek home in back of ryder truck bent 5/16" Alm. tube need to remove
several rivets from alm. gussets and 5/16" tube to repair. All feedback
would be appreciated.
Thanks Buzz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
For 1/8 rivets, drill out head using #30 bit. Drill slowly so that you
don't run into the tube underneath. When ALMOST done, turn bit aside a
little while in the hole--the head pops off----leaving the rest of the
rivet to rattle!! An automatic (snap) punch is good to shoot the rivet
body (tail) back down into the tube.
bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark-lll flight report |
>
> Have you tried readjusting the effective CL (center of Lift) by changing
the
> settings on the ailerons yet?...just a thought
> GeoR38
Yes I have, as a matter of fact. I think I have them dialed in pretty good,
as they are even with the bottom surface of the wing, and taking into
consideration the pressure on the bottom takes out any slop or play that may
exist in the linkage. Same with the flaps.
Ron & Jan Carroll
EAA Chapter 292
Independence, OR
Home of
The Noon Patrol
______!______
-------( / )-------
" "
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
| From: | Ray L Baker <rbaker2(at)juno.com> |
I like to take a small punch (or a mandral from another rivet) and drive
the broken off mandrel down out of the rivet, before starting to drill.
Saves on drill bits and goes more quickly.
Ray
>
> For 1/8 rivets, drill out head using #30 bit. Drill slowly so that
> you
> don't run into the tube underneath. When ALMOST done, turn bit aside
> a
> little while in the hole--the head pops off----leaving the rest of
> the
> rivet to rattle!! An automatic (snap) punch is good to shoot the
> rivet
> body (tail) back down into the tube.
>
> bn
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGreenpg(at)aol.com |
Hey Kolbers,
Can anyone tell me the rib spacing for the firestar and firefly?
Steven Green
N58SG (awaiting inspection)
Etowah, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Steven Green,
FireFly rib spacing--19 inches
bn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
19" FOR THE FIRESTAR.
DAVE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Raising your engine |
Kolbers,
I am considering ways to raise the engine on my Mk-3.
I would like to get some opinions.
My idea is to machine four aluminum 1 1/2" tall risers for under each
Lord mount.
They would be the same size as the Lord mounts when looking down on them
and have a 2" center hole to match the isolators and the holes in the
airframe. They would also have the four 3/16" corner holes.
They would set on the airframe where the Lord mounts usually go and the
Lord mounts would set on top of them with four longer 3/16 bolts tying
each stack together.
The 690L would than be mounted on a plate pretty much the same as the
stock 582 mount.
I feel that this would be about the lightest possible way to raise the
engine a little and should still be plenty strong.
What do you all think?
The main reasons I have for raising the engine is to access the case
bolts under the engine for easy retorqing, and to allow some room for my
rad mounts.
Thanks,
Denny
Mk-3
Vandergrift PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:EAA Skiplane Fly-in |
John. You need to pipe some heat into that Firestar, instead of letting it
blow into the atmosphere. Not a difficult task. G. Aman FS2 OAT 10 / IAT 55
no gloves.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
This is a good example of why it's best to use the entire runway instead of
taking off at mid field.
How does the old saying go?
When the engine quits the most useless things to a pilot are the sky above
you and the runway behind you.
Will Uribe
FireStar II
El Paso, TX
but working in Kansas City for 2 cold weeks.
In a message dated 1/29/01 8:49:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, rr(at)htg.net
writes:
> Hey gang, yesterday I experienced a mishap that could have been serious.
> After run-up and radio checks, I rolled for take off. Upon reaching about
> 100 feet AGL, my engine started running a little rough and loosing RPM. I
> had about 1/2 mile of runway left and landed without incident. While taxing
> back to my hanger I played with the not so smooth engine, and found that
> using the primer or choke helped considerably. One inside the hanger I
> started trouble shooting the fuel system and discovered that my duel mikuni
> fuel pump was barely working. First thing this morning, I am ordering a
> faucet pump and a rebuild kit for the mikuni. Question is, how do you
> arrange the two pumps? Do you place the electric above or below the pulse
> pump? If below, will it pump through the mikuni should it fail?
> Your collective opinions are appreciated
> Dave
> FS2
> El Paso
> (While watching the super bowl and seeing the thunderbirds fly over the
> stadium, I had one thought, Will and I could have done that a lot cheaper!)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark-lll flight report |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:13 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Mark-lll flight report
>
> In Larry's opinion the plane flew very typically 'Kolb', except for the
> tendancy to push nose down during high throttle settings for climb or
> cruise. We nearly ran out of elevator when the engine was pulling hard,
but
> flew nearly hands off at about 4200. Not bad, concidering we had about 450
> #s of beef aboard.
Hi,
Let me elaborate just a bit on my observations.
first- My engine(firestar II) is sitting just exactly flat on the cage
engine mounts. So is Rons, however mine is roughly the same angle as the
underside of the wing, which is 9 degrees angle of attack when the plane is
flying. The engine on his Mark III gives the appearance of not matching the
underside at all. We were short on time and I did not have very much of a
chance to do a in depth exam. For all I know Mark three engines may be
supposed to be flat with the plane rather than the wing, that is what we are
asking you guys. The only thing that I know is that it is a bear to hold the
elevator up enough when you are flying with full power to climb. Cutting
back on the power makes it increasingly easier to hold the elevator in the
up position. The plane really dogs its nose when power is applied. In a
sideways picture of my plane the prop is noticeably angled towards the cage.
What should a Mark III look like from the side?
Other than that it is a beautiful plane, the workmanship is superb. If I
had the money I would buy it myself.
Larry
ps
Ron must have lost a bit of weight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Great question... I asked the Kolb folks that same questions myself. To my
> surprise, they stated that they never considered it and had no suggestion on
> where to get the information.
> Dean Halstead
Dean and Gang:
Was that the President of New Kolb Aircraft Company you were
talking to? If not, did you talk to him afterwards? It is
difficult to run a company if we the customers keep all the
secrets to ourselves.
The torque values should be available in every model
construction manual. Whether they are or not, I do not
know. Do not think they were in any of the old manuals that
I built with, prior to 1991.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hello Gang:
I posted some pictures on the recovery of my MK III at
Muncho Lake, BC, last July 2000. I also threw in a couple
pics of the MK III after the First Kolb Flyin 1999, London,
Ky, a couple shot of some stone sheep, Stone Mountain, BC,
and my favorite map, The North American Continent. This
maps helps one understand the vastness of this continent.
Hope ya'll enjoy. Not a fancy site, just an index page.
Click once on the file name to pull up the pic.
http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Mucho%20Lake%20Trip/
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Those are great, John. Looks like beautiful country, but they sure had you
stuck back in the bushes, didn't they ?? Did anyone bother your plane while
you were away ?? Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Pictures
>
> Hello Gang:
>
> I posted some pictures on the recovery of my MK III at
> Muncho Lake, BC, last July 2000. I also threw in a couple
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Giacometto" <brittani(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | rivet removal tool |
Has anybody had the opportunity to use the rivet removal tool that I see
advertised in various catalogs for $40 to $70? If so are they worth the
time and $$$$?
Thanks Buzz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "HD Mitchell" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
Ray et al,
One suggestion I have heard for removing rivits ( J. Hauck?) is to make a small
tool for keeping the rivit from spinning and hogging out the hole. The tool is
made from a piece of hack saw blade. Use one of those high speed rotary tools
with the one inch disc to cut a "V" slot in one end. The tool is used by forcing
it against the rivit head as you drill. If the
slot is tapered correctly you can get a good grip on the the head. This is worthwhile
if you have more than a few rivits to remove or if you are an incurable
perfectionist.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray L Baker
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rivet removal
I like to take a small punch (or a mandral from another rivet) and drive
the broken off mandrel down out of the rivet, before starting to drill.
Saves on drill bits and goes more quickly.
Ray
>
> For 1/8 rivets, drill out head using #30 bit. Drill slowly so that
> you
> don't run into the tube underneath. When ALMOST done, turn bit aside
> a
> little while in the hole--the head pops off----leaving the rest of
> the
> rivet to rattle!! An automatic (snap) punch is good to shoot the
> rivet
> body (tail) back down into the tube.
>
> bn
>
>
=
=
=
=
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | slyck <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
If you are adept at hand-sharpening drill bits
grind a brad point on the edge of the wheel--
the size of the bit is unimportant--1/4" is ok
the shallow outer edge won't enter your base
metal befor the head pops. BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Artdog1512(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | food for thought... to the list |
ya know brothers, i have 2 suggestions for evolution of the Kolb
design. 1) make the folding of the wings like the "Kitfox", where the wing
stays level instead of folding down to the side. is this necessary? no, just
makes it a little easier to put the wings up/down. a guy that comes to my
field has a Kitfox and it takes less than half the time to fold/unfold the
wings compared to the Kolb and with the Kitfox you don't have to un-hook the
aileron linkage.
2) make the elevator like the Rans S-17 where you can readily adjust
the angle of attack with just the pull of a pin.
....... just 2 suggestions - - - - - tim (firestar 377)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Did anyone bother your plane while
> you were away ?? Lar.
Lar and Gang:
I was very fortunate to have broken the airplane where I
did, right across the Alaska Highway from Northern Rockies
Lodge. Also luckie that "Shot Gun" Nell, my girl friend
that rode shot gun all those miles, was there to take pics
of the recovery. Normally, when something like this
happens, the last thing on my mind was screwing with a
camera.
Where the aircraft sits is where it stopped after my
landing. Actually, all we did was remove the wings, cover
the cockpit and engine with plastic tarps, remove the GPS
and radio, to prep it for storage until I returned two weeks
later.
Nell and I were able to recover the fuselage by ourselves.
I was able to straighten up the left gear mount, cut a 2X4
splint, then wrap a half spool of .032 safety wire around to
secure. Those little Azuza wheels are my original Firestar
wheels I flew with on my first Firestar flight. Like Lar, I
work in a narrow shop and need them to clear the double
doors at the end of the shop. With the small wheels,
affectionately called "Ernie" wheels, named for my airport
buddy and constant companion who happened to be a very suave
male Bassett Hound, Nell and I were able to load the
fuselage on the trailer.
The Stone sheep were on the Alaska Highway a few miles south
of Toad River, in Stone Mountain Provincial Park. They come
down off the cliffs to lick salt off the highway. I low
leveled through this area to see the sheep just prior to
landing at Toad River, the end of day 5 of the flight.
I'll try to post more pics as I get time. I spent most of
the day yesterday finding a replacement heat treating
facility in my area. My old heat treater in Birmingham,
Alabama, went out of business since I last used them in
1993. New one is Braddock Metalurgy, Inc, Anniston,
Alabama, 85 miles north. Will take the gear legs up there
to get them heat treated this morning. Cost $.85 per lb. or
$60.00 minimum load. So you see, I could get about 70 lbs
done for the same price as two gear legs (5 lbs). Actually,
we are getting 4 legs done. Two are for my Brother Jim's
one of a kind L-19 Bird Dog look-alike ultralight.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | slyck <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Torque values for cad-plated nut with oilfree theads. Note that torques
are for tap size and not nut size! ---from P. 326 Northrop text:
FINE-THREAD
tap size tension-type AN 365 shear-type AN364
AN310 in/lb and AN320 in/lb
8-36 12-15 7-9
10-32 20-25 12-15
1/4-28 50-70 30-40
5/16-24 100-140 60-85
3/8-24 160-190 95-110
7/16-20 450-500 270-300
1/2-20 480-690 290-410
It goes on up to 1 1/4 " ????
hope this columates ok, if not delete and I could e-mail
a scan to whoever's interested --BB
(also anothe chart for coarse thread)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 1/29/01 11:46:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
> some stone sheep, Stone Mountain, BC,
> and my favorite map, The North American Continent. This
> maps helps one understand the vastness of this continent.
> Hope ya'll enjoy. Not a fancy site, just an index page.
> Click once on the file name to pull up the pic.
>
> http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Mucho%20Lake%20Trip/
>
>
Hey John, those stone sheep look almost real ...and the idea of them nibbling
on the stone is a great one! whew! what you'll find in far away places.
Was surprised to see P'fer in amongst the trees and stones though...never did
know how you came about to break that axle .....
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerken(at)us.ibm.com |
Denny wrote:
>Kolbers,
>I am considering ways to raise the engine on my Mk-3.
>I would like to get some opinions.
>My idea is to machine four aluminum 1 1/2" tall risers for under each
>Lord mount.
>They would be the same size as the Lord mounts when looking down on them
>and have a 2" center hole to match the isolators and the holes in the
>airframe. They would also have the four 3/16" corner holes.
>They would set on the airframe where the Lord mounts usually go and the
>Lord mounts would set on top of them with four longer 3/16 bolts tying
>each stack together.
>The 690L would than be mounted on a plate pretty much the same as the
>stock 582 mount.
>I feel that this would be about the lightest possible way to raise the
>engine a little and should still be plenty strong.
>What do you all think?
>The main reasons I have for raising the engine is to access the case
>bolts under the engine for easy retorqing, and to allow some room for my
>rad mounts.
Your idea sounds good to me, except I'd add to put steel snubbers under the
plate for safety. Snubbers are in the Barry mount catalog, and are like
giant washers to hold things from going too far, or to hold things together
in case of failure of the rubber or some of the bolts. The washer or
snubber is sized so it cannot pull through the hole, and its thick enough
to be strong enough to hold everything together as a last resort.
Otherwise, your idea sounds good, try it, and like Dennis always told me,
just keep an eye on it until you get some time and experience with it
(checks bolts often).
If I was to do it all over again, I'd consider changing the shock mount
positions from the flat four pattern to the dynafocal type mount.
Dynafocal, or some reasonable implementation of it, tries to focus the
imbalance forces from the rocking engine more straight down through the
shock mounts. Look at a Rans S12 engine mount for ideas. As a simplified
example of this technique, imagine taking the flat plate we have bolted to
the bottom of our engines, and extending it out to the sides by maybe 5" on
each side, and then bending it upward on each side at maybe a 45 degree
angle. The Lord mounts would then be mounted out there on those upturned
flanges, and mate up with aircraft structure made to match the angle. If
you sight through the shock mount center hole you'd be looking through the
side of the crankcase at a point approx just at or just above the
crankshaft. Make sense? Doing this would raise the engine 1.5" minimum.
The benefit would be better vibration isolation from the engine to the
airframe. It also makes room for a bigger prop, which is probably another
good goal.
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Did anyone bother your plane while
> > you were away ?? Lar.
Lar and Folks:
All that rambling in the previous msg and I forgot to answer
your question. Nope. No one messed with my airplane the
two weeks I was gone to Alabama to get the truck and
trailer. They don't seem to have as many problems like that
up there in the "sparsely populated areas." Folks tend to
look out for one another and respect each other's property
rather than try to make off with it. They depend on each
other for the safety and survival.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Was surprised to see P'fer in amongst the trees and stones though...never did
> know how you came about to break that axle .....
> GeoR38
GeoR38 and GAng:
Axle/gear leg socket failure on touchdown at an old
airstrip. We figure the failure was imminent because of
total time and rough usage and weights involved over the
life of the aircraft.
Improvement was to weld a .0120 wall axle socket to the
bottom of the gear leg and do away with the axle/gear leg
bolt on socket. This is the system used with the Sling Shot
and the Kolbra main gear. Do not anticipate any failures in
this department any time soon. Also upgraded to the next
heavier Matco wheel, axle, and brake system. Cost was 3 lbs
per wheel, but based on my flying style (still transitioning
from rotary to fixed wing landings) I need it and it is
worth the weight penalty. If I was not planning on
returning to Alaska, I would have probably stayed with the
origial wheel/brake setup which was the UL version of Matco.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
19 inches on the full ribs with three false ribs equally spaced on the
Firefly.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
>
>Hey Kolbers,
> Can anyone tell me the rib spacing for the firestar and firefly?
>
>Steven Green
>N58SG (awaiting inspection)
>Etowah, TN
>
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Improvement was to weld a .0120 wall axle socket to the
> bottom of the gear leg and do away with the axle/gear leg
> bolt on socket.
> john h
Dad burn it! We gonna get it right yet. Wall thickness
should be .120, not .0120. :-)
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:50:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Artdog1512(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
>
> ya know brothers, i have 2 suggestions for evolution of the Kolb
> design. 1) make the folding of the wings like the "Kitfox", where the
> wing
> stays level instead of folding down to the side. is this necessary? no,
> just
> makes it a little easier to put the wings up/down. a guy that comes to my
> field has a Kitfox and it takes less than half the time to fold/unfold the
> wings compared to the Kolb and with the Kitfox you don't have to un-hook
> the
> aileron linkage.
> 2) make the elevator like the Rans S-17 where you can readily
> adjust
> the angle of attack with just the pull of a pin.
> ....... just 2 suggestions - - - - - tim (firestar 377)
>
>
>
geez and here I am feeling sorry for the kitfox folk for taking up all that
extra room due to the single hinge approach of Kitfox instead of the double
hinge approach of Homer Kolb! Just depends on whether 10 minutes instead of
20 minutes is more important than the extra area used up by the technique, I
guess.
As far as the angle of attack is concerned, yes, I WOULD really like that
as I believe the Kolb is angled too high for the purpose of stability and
speed. But as I get more experienced and want more performance it makes some
sense to me at least to have the option to change that....what do the others
think?
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 1/30/01 10:24:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
> Dad burn it! We gonna get it right yet. Wall thickness
> should be .120, not .0120. :-)
>
> john h
>
I knew that
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
I noticed that on some of the pictures of FireStar II planes, there is a
row of holes in the bracket that holds the leading edge of the
horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage. This is the bracket that is
attached to the fuselage itself. This seems to allow you to adjust the
angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer. The ones that I got with
my kit have only one hole in them. Once they are set, that is it. Any
one know what the difference is or why the change?
Ron Payne
Gilbertsville, Ky.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nuclearsrs(at)cs.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
In a message dated 1/30/01 3:53:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, ronormar(at)apex.net
writes:
<< FireStar II planes, there is a
row of holes in the bracket that holds the leading edge of the
horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage. This is the bracket that is
attached to the fuselage itself. This seems to allow you to adjust the
angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer. >>
I had had problems with my FS II pitching down. I had tried several things
but nothing really seemed to help. Then a friend suggested drilling another
hole in the bracket for the
horizontal stabilizer. This lowered the angle of attack and corrected my
problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
I had to lift the front of the horizontal stabilizer 1.5 inches to enable
my Firefly to cruise with the stick centered and zero pressure. You can
see a photo of how I did it at:
http://216.97.22.2/jack/firefly/firefly20.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
>
>I noticed that on some of the pictures of FireStar II planes, there is a
>row of holes in the bracket that holds the leading edge of the
>horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage. This is the bracket that is
>attached to the fuselage itself. This seems to allow you to adjust the
>angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer. The ones that I got with
>my kit have only one hole in them. Once they are set, that is it. Any
>one know what the difference is or why the change?
>
>Ron Payne
>Gilbertsville, Ky.
>
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
<<
<< FireStar II planes, there is a
row of holes in the bracket that holds the leading edge of the
horizontal stabilizer to the fuselage. This is the bracket that is
attached to the fuselage itself. This seems to allow you to adjust the
angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer. >>
I had had problems with my FS II pitching down. I had tried several things
but nothing really seemed to help. Then a friend suggested drilling another
hole in the bracket for the
horizontal stabilizer. This lowered the angle of attack and corrected my
problem.
>>
did you move the leading edge of the stabilizer up or down to kill the
downward pitching ??
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax engine seminars |
Any of you know how good the Rotax seminars are at Sun-n-Fun?
I hear they offer some, do they give one all there is to know about
overhauling, tuning, etc.?
Are they sit down class room styles, or just stand around a table,
watch and take notes?
Do they cost anything?
Thanks
=====
John & Lynn Richmond :-)
Palm Coast, Fl.
Mk3, 582
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
I have probably drilled out more rivets than any one and have yet to use
anything other than an ordinary 1/8 drill Just drive it through the old
rivet. Sometimes the rivit will spin and you may have to wiggle the drill
but it will come out. No real need to buy a special deriveter tool. If you
got one fine but we are not talking rocket science or watchmaking here. If
the hole becomes a bit oversize don't worry. The nature of the rivet is to
expand and fill the hole before the stem is popped.
"Rude and crude Woody"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
I USE MY MERCURY MARINE MANUAL,IT HAS ALL THE TORQUE AND BOLT SPECS.
D.SNYDER
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: FIRESTAR ELEVATOR PLANS |
From: "Customer Support at The New Kolb Aircraft" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: FIRESTAR ELEVATOR PLANS
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:45:42 -0500
yes it's a typo.
Flatten all Ribs
Randy, Technical Support
----- Original Message -----
From: <TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:29 PM
Subject: Fwd: FIRESTAR ELEVATOR PLANS
> In a message dated 1/29/01 7:25:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
TAILDRAGGER503
> writes:
>
> << N >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill & Anna Vincent <vincentab(at)chartermi.net> |
| Subject: | Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
I found this picture in the January 2000, Experimenter magazine. Since
not everyone has access to this magazine I thought I would share this
with everyone.
"In 1956 Homer flew one of his first true airplane designs powered by
four chain saw engines. Each engine produced about 5 horsepower and
together they put out about as much power as a small Volkswagen engine,
but they weighed about half as much."
The magazine article is a very good story about Homer Kolb and how he
invented the Kolb ultralights.
I hope you enjoy this picture as much as I do.
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
http://www.geocities.com/billvincent49876/Homer_Kolb_1956.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
> > 2) make the elevator like the Rans S-17 where you can readily
> > adjust
> > the angle of attack with just the pull of a pin.
> > ....... just 2 suggestions - - - - - tim (firestar 377)
> As far as the angle of attack is concerned, yes, I WOULD really like that
> as I believe the Kolb is angled too high for the purpose of stability and
> speed. But as I get more experienced and want more performance it makes some
> sense to me at least to have the option to change that....what do the others
> think?
> GeoR38
Tim, GeoR38, and Gang:
Take a look at N101AB, Kolb MK III. It has been flying with
an adjustable leading edge horizontal stabilizer since 1992,
thanks to the imaginative mind and fabrication talent of my
Big Brother Jim.
Addressing reduction of angle of attack of the wing: More
angle of attack permits the airplane to take off in a more
level attitude and eliminates the need for extremely long
landing gear to get the wing in the correct angle of attack
to take off. The Sling Shot has extremely long main gear.
Reason: Wing has much less angle of attack. The long gear
are not for prop clearance since the prop is on the hind
end. :-) However, when the SS is flying and one slows it
down, down goes the tail and up goes the nose to keep the
wing at the correct angle of attack. It really squats when
you slow it down to near stall speed. But, it flies
faster. :-) Less drag cause the tailboom is flying
horizontal rather than tail high like my MK III. When the
tail is high we are dragging a much large profile of the
side of the tailboom through the air, rather than a 6 inch
diameter profile.
If I left something out, holler at me. I am tired, just got
home from taking the main gear legs to Braddock Metalurgy in
Anniston, AL. Nice folks and nice operation. Forgot my
check book. Never done business with them before. Said
they would charge me $5.00 to UPS to my front door and bill
me. That is unusual in today's business world. These folks
do not know me and I live 85 miles down the road. I was
impressed with the plant. Looked more like a hospital than
a heat treat operation.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
> I have probably drilled out more rivets than any one and have yet to use
> anything other than an ordinary 1/8 drill Just drive it through the old
> rivet.
> "Rude and crude Woody"
Woody and Gang:
How are you drilling right through those case hardened
mandrels that remain in the rivet after they are popped? I
find these will ruin any 1/8 bit as soon as you hit it.
My procedure for rivet removal is:
Use a pulled mandrel stem help by small Vise Grips. This is
so you don't bash your fingers when you tap the mandrel to
tap out the piece in the rivet.
After the rivet mandrel is tapped out, then proceed to drill
(1/8" bit) using a little wobbling action to the drill
motor. If it should spin, go to the next step. :-)
Take an old hack saw blade and break it in half. Go to your
grinder and grind a "V" into the broken end of the blade
with a bevel on one side only. To prevent a rivet from
spinning, push the beveled "V" of the blade up to and under
the lip of the rivet. This will hold the rivet and keep it
from spinning and screwing up and enlarging the rivet hole.
End of lesson. :-)
Take care (it works for me),
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
Ron; my Firestar needs a lot of forward stick for level flight. By making a
bracket to raise the front of the horizontal stabilizer, it needs less
forward stick than it used to. The Cub has a jackscrew holding the front of
it's horizontal stabilizer that moves in the range of 3 in. or more for trim
so we figured it could work for us too.G.Aman FS2 79 Hrs N.E. Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
George. When you change the angle of attack in our Firestars you also change
dihedral. Making the struts adjustable might be a little awkwark.G.Aman FS2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
YEAH ! ! ! ! !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rivet removal
>
>
> I have probably drilled out more rivets than any one and have yet to use
> anything other than an ordinary 1/8 drill Just drive it through the old
> rivet. Sometimes the rivit will spin and you may have to wiggle the drill
> but it will come out. No real need to buy a special deriveter tool. If you
> got one fine but we are not talking rocket science or watchmaking here. If
> the hole becomes a bit oversize don't worry. The nature of the rivet is to
> expand and fill the hole before the stem is popped.
>
> "Rude and crude Woody"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
He had an awful lot of guts.............especially considering the
time..............you know, on reflection, that was '56, eh............??
Don't they call John Moody the "Father of Ultralights"?? Didn't he start
his thing around 1970 or there-abouts ?? Who should the world be calling
the "Father of Ultralights"?? Hmmmmmm..................?? Thanks for
sharing that, Bill. Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill & Anna Vincent" <vincentab(at)chartermi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Picture Homer Kolb 1956
>
> I found this picture in the January 2000, Experimenter magazine. Since
> not everyone has access to this magazine I thought I would share this
> with everyone.
> "In 1956 Homer flew one of his first true airplane designs powered by
> four chain saw engines. Each engine produced about 5 horsepower and
> together they put out about as much power as a small Volkswagen engine,
> but they weighed about half as much."
> The magazine article is a very good story about Homer Kolb and how he
> invented the Kolb ultralights.
> I hope you enjoy this picture as much as I do.
>
> Bill Vincent
> Firestar II
> Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
>
> http://www.geocities.com/billvincent49876/Homer_Kolb_1956.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
1956 is before I was born....If John Moody is called the father of
ultralights then Homer must be the Grandfather of ultralights.
Will
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:32:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com writes:
> He had an awful lot of guts.............especially considering the
> time..............you know, on reflection, that was '56, eh............??
> Don't they call John Moody the "Father of Ultralights"?? Didn't he start
> his thing around 1970 or there-abouts ?? Who should the world be calling
> the "Father of Ultralights"?? Hmmmmmm..................?? Thanks for
> sharing that, Bill. Lar.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill & Anna Vincent" <vincentab(at)chartermi.net>
> To: "kolb"
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Picture Homer Kolb 1956
>
>
>
> >
> > I found this picture in the January 2000, Experimenter magazine. Since
> > not everyone has access to this magazine I thought I would share this
> > with everyone.
> > "In 1956 Homer flew one of his first true airplane designs powered by
> > four chain saw engines. Each engine produced about 5 horsepower and
> > together they put out about as much power as a small Volkswagen engine,
> > but they weighed about half as much."
> > The magazine article is a very good story about Homer Kolb and how he
> > invented the Kolb ultralights.
> > I hope you enjoy this picture as much as I do.
> >
> > Bill Vincent
> > Firestar II
> > Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lightest Altenator |
Hello Kolbers,
I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection;
redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a
3lb., 9 amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or
at least close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available?
If you know the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for
any suggestions.
Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightest Altenator |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:43 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Lightest Altenator
>
> Hello Kolbers,
>
>
> I'm building a turbo charged 1liter 3cyl engine with port injection;
> redundant computers & 2 high pressure fuel pumps. I pesently have a
> 3lb., 9 amp Kubota dynametor. 9 amps will probably be insufficient or
> at least close to it. What is the lightest auto altenator available?
> If you know the year, make & model that would be helpful. Thanks for
> any suggestions.
>
> Richard Swiderski
I'd like to here more about your engine project.
Check out the tiny backup alternators from http://www.bandcspecialty.com/,
or there smallest regular alternator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Engine Management - 3 cyl Geo/Suzuki |
Kolbers,
For anyone considering the Geo-Raven setup for your Kolb, I finially
found a company that offers a completely integrated electonically controlled
engine management system, ie., both the ignition and fuel injection. This
is the only company that offers both for a 3cyl engine. They are also
unique in they offer redundant computers, coils, & crank position sensors.
It is specifically designed for aircraft use to, so you don't have to say
its for a "recreational vehicle"!
The factory setup will be fine for most instances. I am turbocharging &
need to get rid of the air-mass sensor unit as it really complicates the air
plumbing (The intercooler already makes it more complicated.) and I can get
some weight savings. This system will allow me to get rid of the distributor
as well which will cut some more weight & open up some more space also. It
will also allow me to taylor the fuel ratio & ignition timing to the varying
boost pressures. ...Richard Swiderski, Ocala FL, SlingShot SeaDoo 587
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
>
>Woody and Gang:
>
>How are you drilling right through those case hardened
>mandrels that remain in the rivet after they are popped? I
>find these will ruin any 1/8 bit as soon as you hit it.
>
>My procedure for rivet removal is:
never really thought about it. I just drill away and it works. I did
have problems last summer drilling out a Mk111 but that was due to a bad
pop riveter leaving the mandrel sticking out of the rivet. I filed those
down flush then drilled.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
>
>Its cruise speed wasn't much faster than its stall speed. Homer did not fly
>it too much until he added more wing to it. Then it became a much better
>flying aircraft. Those were Mac 101's and did the 4 of them ever scream!
>
>Dennis
I have a couple pictures of Homers first flyer out back behind the
barn. I could send out if anyone is interested and also one of his Osh kosh
display his second year there before he had the ultrastar. If anyone has
access to a stereoscope I have a couple pictures that can be viewed 3d.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight Adjustable Propelors |
Kolbers,
I will be needing an in-flight adjustable propellor for my 3 cyl turbo
charged engine. It has 107 lbs torque at the PTO & 80 hp at 6lb boost & can
put out 100hp with 10lb boost. I plan to run it at the conservative
setting.
Given that it is a 4 stroke & therefore hits twice as hard for equal
amount of hp as 2 stroke, a very rigid prop is not advised (A Warp on a VW
will break the shaft where a wooden doesn't).
Only an opposed 4 cyl is harmonically stable. All other configurations
will gyrate around the crank axis & a 3cyl is the worst of them all.
Therfore, I am looking for the lightest & most flexible prop that will
take 80-100 hp. Inflight adjustable is necessary because it will guarantee
that I can control my boost at any rpm setting which translates into maximum
safety, economy, climb & speed.
NSI is a gold plated boat anchor & if Warp Drive is out with their
prototype at S&F, its not far behind NSI. ASAP offers a reasonably light
setup at a reasonable price but after dealing with them with a previous
prop, I would not recomend them to anyone. [[For the record, I purchased
their prop, then found a better, lighter redrive & asked to swap it out
(Still in the box.) for one that turns in the other direction. They not
only would not do it, but offered me 25% of what I paid for it & wanted to
sell me another. That told me they 1) Are having trouble selling their
props & 2) They don't care about the customer once they make a sale.]]
Unless I'm mistaken, there are no other suppliers left but Ivo. If you know
of one, please share that info with the List or email me direct.
Now for Ivo. He's the cheapest around, especially since I would not
need his motor assembly-- I am using a treaded rod thru the prop shaft. He
offers 3 models. His BIG MOMMA for Continentals is too heavy. The 2 blade
medium version would be acceptable. The 3 bladed 72" UL version would be
fantastic if it could hold up.
The big question: Has anyone ever put the light 3 blade on a Rotax 912
or 912S? I heard a guy say he hear a guy say it was done, but sounds
improbable to me.
The next biggest question: Has anyone seen the medium prop on anything?
How does it perform? At Sun&Fun, Ivo didn't have any data that compared the
performance of the light vs medium props on a 582. In fact he offered no
hard data at all. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks for any insights. ...Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Engine Management - 3 cyl Geo/Suzuki |
Dummy Me! I left out the Co. name & website: Compus Avionics
http://www.connect.net/compass/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Electronic Engine Management - 3 cyl Geo/Suzuki
> Kolbers,
>
> For anyone considering the Geo-Raven setup for your Kolb, I finially
> found a company that offers a completely integrated electonically
controlled
> engine management system, ie., both the ignition and fuel injection. This
> is the only company that offers both for a 3cyl engine. They are also
> unique in they offer redundant computers, coils, & crank position sensors.
> It is specifically designed for aircraft use to, so you don't have to say
> its for a "recreational vehicle"!
> The factory setup will be fine for most instances. I am turbocharging
&
> need to get rid of the air-mass sensor unit as it really complicates the
air
> plumbing (The intercooler already makes it more complicated.) and I can
get
> some weight savings. This system will allow me to get rid of the
distributor
> as well which will cut some more weight & open up some more space also.
It
> will also allow me to taylor the fuel ratio & ignition timing to the
varying
> boost pressures. ...Richard Swiderski, Ocala FL, SlingShot SeaDoo 587
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | electronic level |
I am almost finished with the tail feathers after a month of work (75 hours
or so). Soon I will be starting the wings and I want to buy an electronic
level. Where is a good source for one and what price can I expect to pay?
I have a Northern Hydraulics catalog which has several listed. Someone
reported buying a rather inexpensive one, but was not pleased with its
accuracy.
The $4.99 tubing bender I bought at Harbour Freight seems to be of similar
quality to the $30 one I bought at Aircraft Spruce that was too small. I
was able to get smooth bends without any noticeable flattening of the 5/16"
tubing with it. I noticed that HF has the same pneumatic riveter that I got
from Cleaveland tool, but I was afraid to check the price, fearing I had
overpaid.
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
building Mark IIIXtra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight Adjustable Propelors |
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:13:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
swiderskir(at)earthlink.net writes:
> The big question: Has anyone ever put the light 3 blade on a Rotax 912
> or 912S? I heard a guy say he hear a guy say it was done, but sounds
> improbable to me.
>
Rich:
I can offer you my experience with the three bladed, high pitch, quick
adjust IVO on a 582 with a 3.47:1 E box. I found at that high ratio the prop
was silky smooth, and I was very pleased with the results for the first few
hours.
With the prop IVO gives you little pieces of steel tape that they
recommend you place across the intersections of the individual blades. They
are a telltale. If the blade is moving in the hub the tape will crack and
you know you have a porblem of some sort. I cracked my first tape shortly
after my first full hour of flying after the break in. Thinking it might be
fluke I simply replaced it.
Another tape broke shortly after. I called IVO and explained my
situation. They said they had a fix and not to worry. I sent them my hub
and for free they knurled the inside surface of the hub. They said that it
would make the hub grip the blades better and solve my problem. I broke
another tape within 3 hours of the hub fix.
I called IVO again and they recommended that I up the torque on the
prop bolts from 150 inch pounds to 200 inch pounds. I did that and broke
another tape shortly afterwards.
By this time I was on a first name basis with IVO. I called him and
told him about the problem. I questioned him in great detail and what I
learned was they had very little experience with props that long (72 is the
longest they make) turning that slow, and they had had similar problems in
the past. IVO told me he had another fix in mind, but at that point I told
him I had no desire to be test pilot and asked him for my money back. TO HIS
GREAT CREDIT IVO REFUNDED ME THE PURCHASE PRICE OF MY PROP DESPITE THE FACT
THAT I HAD USED IT FOR 20 HOURS AND PURCHASED IT 3 YEARS BEFORE.
I suspect that if I had not opted for the high pitch blade and gone
with a lower gear ratio, like on the B box, that I would not have had the
problem. Guys with 64 to 68 inch IVOs on B boxes report no problems at all.
The executive summary here is that IVO props in the longer lengths
should not be turned slowly. My surmise is that the blades are so flexible
that they are like whips and the power pulses from the engine set up sine
waves down the blades.
One of the nice things about the IVO's flexibility is that it seems to
absorb and damp some vibration. I regretted giving mine up because it always
ran very smooth. I now have a Powerfin and it works fine.
Mark R. Sellers
Kolb Twinstar Mark III
N496BM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet removal |
Take a small punch and knock the mandrel out before you start drilling.
Much eaiser on drill bits that way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rivet removal
>
>
> >
> >Woody and Gang:
> >
> >How are you drilling right through those case hardened
> >mandrels that remain in the rivet after they are popped? I
> >find these will ruin any 1/8 bit as soon as you hit it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cox" <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
> > Don't they call John Moody the "Father of Ultralights"?? Didn't he
start
> > his thing around 1970 or there-abouts ?? Who should the world be
calling
> > the "Father of Ultralights"?? Hmmmmmm..................?? Thanks
for
> > sharing that, Bill. Lar.
>
> Lar and Gang:
>
> The world is not always fair.
>
> john h
Amen brother. The USUA named it's highest honor the Moody Award. This
years award will be given next week (Feb. 8-10) at the USUA Annual meeting
in Indianapolis. And this years winner is ........Homer Kolb.
Sam Cox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron or Mary Payne" <ronormar(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer |
I guess I didn't explain myself enough in my earlier post. That is not
unusual. In the pictures that I have seen including the Kolb factory
FireStar, the brackets that rivet to the side of the fuselage to hold
the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer have a row of 5 holes
vertically. Just by puling the pin you could raise or lower the leading
edge. The brackets furnished with my kit seem to be much shorter and
have only one hole for the pin. My drawings show this pin located 3/8
inch above the fuselage tube. Once the bracket is riveted in place
there will be no adjustment. My question is what was supplied to some
of you other FireStar drivers? Do your brackets have one hole or a row
of holes? I have e-mailed Kolb with this question but have not received
a reply as yet.
Ron Payne
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
Hi Ron,
The factory Firestar was the prototype and the brackets with several holes
was for experimentation. Once the proper location was determined, your
brackets (hinges) with one vertical hole was supplied. No need to change
position.
Dick Kuntzleman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
What's USUA's email address ?? Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Cox" <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Picture Homer Kolb 1956
>
>
> > > Don't they call John Moody the "Father of Ultralights"?? Didn't he
> start
> > > his thing around 1970 or there-abouts ?? Who should the world be
> calling
> > > the "Father of Ultralights"?? Hmmmmmm..................?? Thanks
> for
> > > sharing that, Bill. Lar.
> >
> > Lar and Gang:
> >
> > The world is not always fair.
> >
> > john h
>
> Amen brother. The USUA named it's highest honor the Moody Award. This
> years award will be given next week (Feb. 8-10) at the USUA Annual meeting
> in Indianapolis. And this years winner is ........Homer Kolb.
>
> Sam Cox
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Hey Gang..............a couple of days ago, there was a question about
the tilt of the engine affecting the nose down attitude of a Mk III.
Something about he had to hold very strong up-elevator to maintain level
flight. I've thought about this in relation to Vamoose to the point
where I designed adjustment room into my engine mounts. There's been
days' worth of drilling out rivets, and not one comment on this. Does
anyone know which way to tip, or yaw, your engine to correct for this ??
Impatient Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electronic level |
Clay,
I have a 2' long Smart Level and am very happy with it. It reads out in
tenths of degrees and is very accurate.
My wife bought it for me from Harber Freight about ten years ago for less
than $40, They quit selling them shorty after that. When my friends tried
to buy them through another source, they found the price was double.
You might try searching the net.
Good Luck,
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Stuart <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: electronic level
>
> I am almost finished with the tail feathers after a month of work (75
hours
> or so). Soon I will be starting the wings and I want to buy an electronic
> level. Where is a good source for one and what price can I expect to pay?
> I have a Northern Hydraulics catalog which has several listed. Someone
> reported buying a rather inexpensive one, but was not pleased with its
> accuracy.
>
> The $4.99 tubing bender I bought at Harbour Freight seems to be of similar
> quality to the $30 one I bought at Aircraft Spruce that was too small. I
> was able to get smooth bends without any noticeable flattening of the
5/16"
> tubing with it. I noticed that HF has the same pneumatic riveter that I
got
> from Cleaveland tool, but I was afraid to check the price, fearing I had
> overpaid.
>
> Thanks,
> Clay Stuart
> building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Adjustment |
In a message dated 1/30/01 7:50:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ZepRep251(at)aol.com writes:
> Ron; my Firestar needs a lot of forward stick for level flight. By making a
> bracket to raise the front of the horizontal stabilizer, it needs less
> forward stick than it used to. The Cub has a jackscrew holding the front of
> it's horizontal stabilizer that moves in the range of 3 in. or more for
> trim
> so we figured it could work for us too.G.Aman FS2 79 Hrs N.E. Ohio
>
Gary, you wouldn't happen to have a drawing or picture you could send me on
your stabilizer attachment do you? Someone sent me their design, but the
picture wouldn't open for me....I would like to lower my stab some on my
firestar.
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | 582 & 618 dual rad size? |
Can anyone with the 582 or 618 dual rad setup give me the height & width
of the rads?
Thanks,
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron" <ron.carroll(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
John, since your Mk-lll has an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, and you
mention the improved performance of the SS compared to your Mk-lll, why is
it that you don't adjust your horizontal stabilizer to obtain a similar
improved performance? Is the SS' lower AOA a result of the reduced angle of
the Horizontal stabilizer?
This sort of fits in with the question Larry Cottrel & I have posted
regarding the way my Mk-lll flies so nose-down with high power, and nose-up
with reduced power. The nose-down is so strong during climb & high power
cruise, that I nearly run out of up-elevator control. i.e., the stick is
nearly all the way back with almost nothing left. This was with Larry & I
on board, a total of nearly 470#s of beef plus 5-gallons of fuel. We also
had a difficult time taking off, requiring full up elevator & one notch of
flaps. We were still within the CG envelope with this load, but seemed nose
heavy.
Any ideas?
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: food for thought... to the list
>
> Tim, GeoR38, and Gang:
>
> Take a look at N101AB, Kolb MK III. It has been flying with
> an adjustable leading edge horizontal stabilizer since 1992,
> thanks to the imaginative mind and fabrication talent of my
> Big Brother Jim.
>The Sling Shot has extremely long main gear.
> Reason: Wing has much less angle of attack. The long gear
> are not for prop clearance since the prop is on the hind
> end. :-) However, when the SS is flying and one slows it
> down, down goes the tail and up goes the nose to keep the
> wing at the correct angle of attack. It really squats when
> you slow it down to near stall speed. But, it flies
> faster. :-) Less drag cause the tailboom is flying
> horizontal rather than tail high like my MK III. When the
> tail is high we are dragging a much large profile of the
> side of the tailboom through the air, rather than a 6 inch
> diameter profile.
> SNIP
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Does
> anyone know which way to tip, or yaw, your engine to correct for this ??
> Impatient Lar.
Lar and Gang:
I went through this drill early on with my MK III. I
experimented different engine postions with negative change
in correcting adverse yaw and the tendancy to push the now
down when power is applied and/or increased. Just did not
make any noticeable difference whow I off set the engine.
Until I installed the 6 inch prop extension I flew with the
front of the engine raised 5/8". In the static position
this placed the prop perpendicular (90 deg) to the bottom of
the wing. My theory was to try and get the line of thrust
as close to line of flight as I could. Realizing that when
the engine was under power, the attitude of the engine would
change a little, i.e., the rear will come up and the front
will depress and twist left, just a tad. This way when I am
at cruise rpm, the thrust line will be the same as line of
flight, and the wing will have the angle of attack necessary
to maintain that altitude.
This time around, when I start flying again, I will
experiment with the engine in the stock position because I
wanted more prop tip clearance with the the 6 inch
extension. I have about 1 1/4 inches clearance now. If I
feel I have enough clearance with the front of the engine
raised 5/8 of an inch, I will try some flying in tht
configuration.
Basically, what I learned when I started flying my MK III
was it did not make measureable difference which way you
pointed the engine. Was not worth the effort to go through
the drill.
On the same note, the experiment off setting the leading
edge of the vertical stablizer produced the same
information. Not worth the effort to off set it. Mine is
back in the centered position. Went to a larger trim tab
and that neutralized the adverse yaw.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
In a message dated 1/30/01 8:00:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ZepRep251(at)aol.com writes:
> George. When you change the angle of attack in our Firestars you also change
> dihedral. Making the struts adjustable might be a little awkwark.G.Aman FS2
>
>
I know what you are saying here, but what I always thought was that
stability was achieved be either dihedral OR Angle between wings and stab.
However, I already originally added dihedral above that specified on the
plans and built the angle according to the plans ...so I am already dihedral
plus. Not much but several inches more.
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electronic level |
Water levels and plumb bobs never need batteries, and they don't lie.
Water colored with food coloring in small diameter tygon tubing makes an
inexpensive level. With a water level and three plumb bobs, you can build
a wing on a vertical fixture and the wing will be square and flat with in a
1/16 of an inch. The water level levels the main spar. One plumb bob holds
the inner main rib square to the main spar, and the other two plumb bobs
maintain the flatness of the wing from the leading to trailing edge of the
wing.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
>
>I am almost finished with the tail feathers after a month of work (75 hours
>or so). Soon I will be starting the wings and I want to buy an electronic
>level. Where is a good source for one and what price can I expect to pay?
>I have a Northern Hydraulics catalog which has several listed. Someone
>reported buying a rather inexpensive one, but was not pleased with its
>accuracy.
>
>The $4.99 tubing bender I bought at Harbour Freight seems to be of similar
>quality to the $30 one I bought at Aircraft Spruce that was too small. I
>was able to get smooth bends without any noticeable flattening of the 5/16"
>tubing with it. I noticed that HF has the same pneumatic riveter that I got
>from Cleaveland tool, but I was afraid to check the price, fearing I had
>overpaid.
>
>Thanks,
>Clay Stuart
>building Mark IIIXtra
>
>
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com> |
I am pleased to announce that my wife Bettie Seitzer soloed in OUR Original
Firestar #32 on1/28/01 at Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota. She reads the list
but has not contributed yet. She flew 2-25 minute flights and made 5
great landings and one ok landing. There was a very light wind from the
south, haze and low clouds and 19 degrees temperature.
She reports the Firestar flies very well--easier than the Sport Aviation
Talon she received training in. A group on the ground watched her
flight--when I said "Give it a little more throttle" she did it on her
own, When I said"Get the nose down" she did that too. She has good
instincts and was very happy and proud.
Now the problem is how are we going to share the plane! She has been
talking about the experience non stop since then--it is cool to see her
excited about the same thing I love. She now is trying to decide if we
should get another Firestar or get a Mark III! She is making plans for
cross country flights and adventures--now I will have someone to help setup
and loading.
I am very lucky and proud.
Dale Seitzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
Ron and Gang:
Let me see if I can answer your questions:
> John, since your Mk-lll has an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, and you
> mention the improved performance of the SS compared to your Mk-lll, why is
> it that you don't adjust your horizontal stabilizer to obtain a similar
> improved performance? Is the SS' lower AOA a result of the reduced angle of
> the Horizontal stabilizer?
The reduced angle of attack (AOA) of the SS is determined by
design and rigging. The tailboom flies parallel to the line
of flight. I adjusted the leading edge of the horizontal
stab down to help offset the nose down tendancey under
power. With much more angle of attack in the wings and the
design of the MK III fuselage, the tailboom does not fly
parallel to the line of flight, but tail high.
> my Mk-lll flies so nose-down with high power, and nose-up
> with reduced power.
My own personal opinion, not based on anything scientific:
High thrust line is gonna push the nose down on a pusher.
If ya had a low thrust line on a pusher it would be just the
opposite. Don't know how to explain that any simpler.
The nose-down is so strong during climb & high power
> cruise, that I nearly run out of up-elevator control. i.e., the stick is
> nearly all the way back with almost nothing left. This was with Larry & I
> on board, a total of nearly 470#s of beef plus 5-gallons of fuel. We also
> had a difficult time taking off, requiring full up elevator & one notch of
> flaps.
I believe every word of what you say above. You may have
established a record forf pilot/passengeer weight in a MK
III. The MK III is performing exactly like it should under
the conditions you have placed on it. I am not sure of max
people weight for the MK III but guess it is about 400 lbs.
To aggevate this overload condition you only had 5 gal fuel
in the rear. Then on top of all that you pull in a notch of
flaps which further increases the nose down tendancy. If
you had thought of something else to compound your problem
you may have hurt your airplane and your selves.
Lowering the leading edge of the horizontal stablilizer will
help in your situation. However, I do not recommend flying
a MK III with that much "beef" in the seats.
When I am doing serious XCs, I have over well over 200 lbs
of fuel and equipment behind the center bulk head. At
cruise I still require nose up trim, when I am solo. Pull
back the power and I don't need trim.
I experimented with three different positions of the Horz
Stab, all below the normal position. I do not recall what
the measurements are now, but when I flew in the lower
position the aircraft would not settle down in cruise. It
was like trying to sit on a ball. It would roll off the
back side or the front side. Really had to stay right on
top of pitch control all the time. Top notch was not enough
trim assistance. Middle notch the plane flies well and I
have enough nose up trim to fly comfortably.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
In a message dated 1/30/01 11:02:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
duesouth(at)govital.net writes:
> I have a couple pictures of Homers first flyer out back behind the
> barn. I could send out if anyone is interested and also one of his Osh kosh
> display his second year there before he had the ultrastar. If anyone has
> access to a stereoscope I have a couple pictures that can be viewed 3d.
>
>
Hey Woody, would it be possible to post some of your stuff on the
list....Everyone would be very interested....here I am talkin and I don't
even have a scanner or a digital camera.....:-(
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
Here's my two cents, for what it's worth. I noticed the same thing on my
MKIII, needed full up elevator to take off and climb out at high power, etc.
I have modified my flap control handle so that I have three settings very
close to each other at the up position. All the way up is slightly reflexed,
the flaps are about 3 degrees above normal. Middle up has the bottom
of the flap level with the bottom of the wing, and there is also a drooped up
position, the flap droops about 3 degrees lower than level with the bottom of
the wing. The ailerons are adjusted so that with an in flight load, the
bottoms
of the control surfaces are flat and parallel with the bottom of the wing.
Now when I take off with a heavy passenger, I have the trim control lever
in the full up position, and the flaps in the top hole, reflexed slightly up.
This gives me good elevator authority with minimum stick force needed
to hold the nose up. It also allows full throttle level flight without needing
to hold a lot of up elevator like before. When I fly solo, I take off with the
flap handle in the lower up position. With this mod, the airplane handles and
feels almost the same either solo or two up.
It is very easy to look and see which hole the flap handle is located in
before takeoff, and even if you get it in the wrong one, (I tried it to see
what
would happen) it still does OK, just not as good as it might be.
There is a picture of the flap handle control mod on my web page,
I will be redoing some things on the web page later this spring,
and will try to make the pictures and the mods easier to see.
The current pictures are at
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg3.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>This sort of fits in with the question Larry Cottrel & I have posted
>regarding the way my Mk-lll flies so nose-down with high power, and nose-up
>with reduced power. The nose-down is so strong during climb & high power
>cruise, that I nearly run out of up-elevator control. i.e., the stick is
>nearly all the way back with almost nothing left. This was with Larry & I
>on board, a total of nearly 470#s of beef plus 5-gallons of fuel. We also
>had a difficult time taking off, requiring full up elevator & one notch of
>flaps. We were still within the CG envelope with this load, but seemed nose
>heavy.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Ron
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
I think I may have the record for weight then: I have taken a friend flying
in my MKIII, and he is at 275, and I am at 195. Full up trim, flaps reflexed
full up, and no flaps when landing. Flew OK, and still had fair control
authority
on the elevator at all speeds, but used no flaps on landing, used a full size
airport, and kept the airspeeds up on final.
My weight and balance sheet says I was OK at that weight, and actually had
some to spare, but I think that was about as much as prudent.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P 420ldPoops)
>The nose-down is so strong during climb & high power
>> cruise, that I nearly run out of up-elevator control. i.e., the stick is
>> nearly all the way back with almost nothing left. This was with Larry & I
>> on board, a total of nearly 470#s of beef plus 5-gallons of fuel. We also
>> had a difficult time taking off, requiring full up elevator & one notch of
>> flaps.
>
>I believe every word of what you say above. You may have
>established a record forf pilot/passengeer weight in a MK
>III. The MK III is performing exactly like it should under
>the conditions you have placed on it. I am not sure of max
>people weight for the MK III but guess it is about 400 lbs.
>To aggevate this overload condition you only had 5 gal fuel
>in the rear. Then on top of all that you pull in a notch of
>flaps which further increases the nose down tendancy. If
>you had thought of something else to compound your problem
>you may have hurt your airplane and your selves.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Kolb Pilot |
> I am pleased to announce that my wife Bettie Seitzer soloed in OUR Original
> Firestar #32 on1/28/01 at Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota.
> Dale Seitzer
Congratulations Bettie. I think that is great. Shoot, I
get excited when my gal friend flies with me. But I get to
do all the flying. Wow! That's great. Now you all can
fight over who gets to fly. :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Swenson" <guys(at)rrt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
After 20+ years of RC Modeling I have always lived by the following:
1) Increasing dihedral will increase stability with roll not pitch.
2) Angle of incidence will affect pitch not roll.
Just thought I'd give my .02 worth.
Guy S.
-----Original Message-----
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: food for thought... to the list
>
>In a message dated 1/30/01 8:00:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>ZepRep251(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
>> George. When you change the angle of attack in our Firestars you also
change
>> dihedral. Making the struts adjustable might be a little awkwark.G.Aman
FS2
>>
>>
>
>I know what you are saying here, but what I always thought was that
>stability was achieved be either dihedral OR Angle between wings and stab.
>However, I already originally added dihedral above that specified on the
>plans and built the angle according to the plans ...so I am already
dihedral
>plus. Not much but several inches more.
>GeoR38
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
> After 20+ years of RC Modeling I have always lived by the following:
> 1) Increasing dihedral will increase stability with roll not pitch.
> 2) Angle of incidence will affect pitch not roll.
> Just thought I'd give my .02 worth.
> Guy S.
Guy and Gang:
I believe you are correct.
The geometry of the attach point of main spar and drag strut
causes a change of angle of attack or dihedral to affect the
other adjustment on our Kolbs.
Take care,
john h
PS: Having a hard time typing with a big band aid on my
index finger. Stuck a rivet mandrel in it. ;-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought... to the list |
> John, since your Mk-lll has an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, and you
> mention the improved performance of the SS compared to your Mk-lll, why is
> it that you don't adjust your horizontal stabilizer to obtain a similar
> improved performance? Is the SS' lower AOA a result of the reduced angle
of
> the Horizontal stabilizer?
I think if you all start using the term angle of incidence for the angle
that the wing is mounted to the fuselage and angle of attack for the angle
that your hitting the wind this will be a clearer conversation. The SS's
wing is mounted on the plane at a lower angle of incidence then the MKIII or
Firestars. this allows it to fly at cruise speed with the fuselage in a
flatter attitude and therefor less drag. but to slow down and land you have
to pull the nose way up and have higher drag and need the very long gear
legs, so it is not as good a low speed plane. The MKIII and firestar are
not optimized for cruise as much but for low speed flight, the angle of
incidence is higher. the low drag point of the fuselage is at lowerspeeds
and you get better low speed performance. Take your pick but you only get
one. The incidence of the horizontal tail changes similarly with the wings,
since it needs to be at a slight negative aoa to generate downforce. it is
better to choose your plane for the mission you want then to try and change
your plane to match a mission, cause so many things change to get to a good
design point. MKIII is a good low speed flyer. if you want high cruise you
would change the whole geometry around, not just the wing incidence or tail
incidence. If your having to hold lots of forward stick, check your cg is
in the envelope, and that your control surface rigging is all correct,
elevators, ailerons and flaps, and allows proper range of motion. running
out of elevator control on either end of the envelope will ruin your day
really fast. one way you nose into the ground the otherway you nose into
the sky, and then nose into the ground.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
If you are going to fold your Kolb, you must have the adjustment in the
uppermost position or the stand with the holes interferes with the inboard
stabilizer tube when attempting to fold it. You gotta find the right height
and whack off any part of the bracket above it.G.Aman FS2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hello Gang:
Been meaning to post this msg but kept forgetting to.
Biggest problem I had with my 912 was water, trash, and
corrosion as the result of the water, in the float bowls.
On the way and at the 1999 Kolb Flyin, I had power problem
departing Gantt Int and again after I got to Chesnut Knolls
airstrip. Pulled both float bowls and there was the
problem. Pieces of crud break loose get in the the main jet
sump, then partially or completely block the main jet.
Symptoms are lack of power, won't come up to full rpm,
and/or full engine shut down. The latter happened at the
2000 Kolb Flyin in the factory Sling Shot. First takeoff
out of Chesnut Knolls airstrip and had an engine failure.
Cause as described above. Factory guys may get irritated at
me with sharing this information to the List about their SS,
but if is a fact of life and a serious one. I think we
should check carburetor float bowls at least once a month to
insure they are clean and have no water/moisture in them.
It is a good idea to have a couple sets (2 ea per pair) of
float bowl gaskets incase you screw one of them up, which is
easy to do. I carry a couple spare sets with me on big
trips.
Take care,
john h
PS: Won't hurt to check those 2 cycle float bowls also.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | In-flight Adjustable Propelors |
Yes, Kolb flew the SS with an 72" 3-blade IVO for awhile. The only reason
it was removed was for the lack of top end performance, the Ivo's just did
not do as well at higher speeds. This was the reason I had mentioned some
time ago on the list that while I consider the Ivo's one of the best all
around props for the FF and FS - but for the SlingShot and Laser, the Warp
gives a higher speed. A properly designed wood prop will outperform both at
top end, but the Warp provides the best overall performance when climb and
top end are both factored in.
I also had done a lot of testing of props on the 582 powered Laser and the
Ivo was even at more of a disadvantage at the higher speeds of the Laser.
I would not recommend the IVO for the SlingShot, you will give up too much
top end. (I am only discussing the light weight Ivo not the heavier
models.)
Dennis
The big question: Has anyone ever put the light 3 blade on a Rotax 912
or 912S? I heard a guy say he hear a guy say it was done, but sounds
improbable to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | food for thought... to the list |
I took up a person weighing 360 lbs in a TwinStar Mark-II with a 503. I
probably weighed around 200 at the time. I recall very vividly that he
"overflowed" the torque tube and some of him was on my side of the cockpit.
Climb out wasn't too good, but we made it up. I don't know why I did it -
seemed like a good thing to do at the time. But once was enough.
Sometime later I had a gent who weighed about that much in the Mark-III. I
was hopping rides out of a mowed hay field. When he plopped into the cockpit
I knew I didn't not want to take him up. He tried to fasten his seat belt
and it did not reach around his considerable girth. I had my out, I said I
can't take you up without the seat belt fastened. He said, that's okay I
don't mind not having a seat belt. I persisted and said no, I just can't
fly someone without the seat belt fastened. I had no doubt I could have
gotten him up, but I did not want to beat up the wheel pants going fast over
a rough hay field.
So adjust your seat belts so you too can have a good excuse to take up
someone who weighs more than you feel comfortable flying.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: food for thought... to the list
I think I may have the record for weight then: I have taken a friend flying
in my MKIII, and he is at 275, and I am at 195. Full up trim, flaps reflexed
full up, and no flaps when landing. Flew OK, and still had fair control
authority
o
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com> |
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rivet removal
"I have probably drilled out more rivets than any one and have yet to use
anything other than an ordinary 1/8 drill Just drive it through the old
rivet. Sometimes the rivit will spin and you may have to wiggle the drill
but it will come out. No real need to buy a special deriveter
tool,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
Yep, that's the way I've done it & seems to work o.k.
Rody
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | dynafocal mounts |
A few years ago I designed a dynafocal mount system for a batch centrifuge.
It is somewhat involved as you choose a mount with a known vertical and
horizontal stiffness and then work through the geometry based on all the
distances and angles. There are an infinite number of solutions and every
change affects everything else. It's not just a matter of aiming the mounts
toward the C.G. You also "tune" the system natural frequency with the
mounts & geometry so you're not near an operating speed. I can dig up the
procedure if anyone is interested.
Rody in Cincinnati (MK3Xtra)
From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
Subject: Kolb-List: raise engine
Denny wrote:
>Kolbers,
>I am considering ways to raise the engine on my Mk-3.
>I would like to get some opinions.
>My idea is to machine four aluminum 1 1/2" tall risers for under each
>Lord mount.
>They would be the same size as the Lord mounts when looking down on them
>and have a 2" center hole to match the isolators and the holes in the
>airframe. They would also have the four 3/16" corner holes.
>They would set on the airframe where the Lord mounts usually go and the
>Lord mounts would set on top of them with four longer 3/16 bolts tying
>each stack together.
>The 690L would than be mounted on a plate pretty much the same as the
>stock 582 mount.
>I feel that this would be about the lightest possible way to raise the
>engine a little and should still be plenty strong.
>What do you all think?
>The main reasons I have for raising the engine is to access the case
>bolts under the engine for easy retorqing, and to allow some room for my
>rad mounts.
Your idea sounds good to me, except I'd add to put steel snubbers under the
plate for safety. Snubbers are in the Barry mount catalog, and are like
giant washers to hold things from going too far, or to hold things together
in case of failure of the rubber or some of the bolts. The washer or
snubber is sized so it cannot pull through the hole, and its thick enough
to be strong enough to hold everything together as a last resort.
Otherwise, your idea sounds good, try it, and like Dennis always told me,
just keep an eye on it until you get some time and experience with it
(checks bolts often).
If I was to do it all over again, I'd consider changing the shock mount
positions from the flat four pattern to the dynafocal type mount.
Dynafocal, or some reasonable implementation of it, tries to focus the
imbalance forces from the rocking engine more straight down through the
shock mounts. Look at a Rans S12 engine mount for ideas. As a simplified
example of this technique, imagine taking the flat plate we have bolted to
the bottom of our engines, and extending it out to the sides by maybe 5" on
each side, and then bending it upward on each side at maybe a 45 degree
angle. The Lord mounts would then be mounted out there on those upturned
flanges, and mate up with aircraft structure made to match the angle. If
you sight through the shock mount center hole you'd be looking through the
side of the crankcase at a point approx just at or just above the
crankshaft. Make sense? Doing this would raise the engine 1.5" minimum.
The benefit would be better vibration isolation from the engine to the
airframe. It also makes room for a bigger prop, which is probably another
good goal.
Jim G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine Tilt
> Lar and Gang:
>
> I went through this drill early on with my MK III. I
> experimented different engine postions with negative change
> in correcting adverse yaw and the tendancy to push the now
> down when power is applied and/or increased. Just did not
> make any noticeable difference whow I off set the engine.
> Until I installed the 6 inch prop extension I flew with the
> front of the engine raised 5/8". In the static position
> this placed the prop perpendicular (90 deg) to the bottom of
> the wing. My theory was to try and get the line of thrust
> as close to line of flight as I could. Realizing that when
> the engine was under power, the attitude of the engine would
> change a little, i.e., the rear will come up and the front
> will depress and twist left, just a tad. This way when I am
> at cruise rpm, the thrust line will be the same as line of
> flight, and the wing will have the angle of attack necessary
> to maintain that altitude.
>
John;
The difficulty with Ron's machine is that it drives the planes snghle
of attack so low that it requires full up to compensate. The throw on the
elevator is substancial.
> This time around, when I start flying again, I will
> experiment with the engine in the stock position because I
> wanted more prop tip clearance with the the 6 inch
> extension. I have about 1 1/4 inches clearance now. If I
> feel I have enough clearance with the front of the engine
> raised 5/8 of an inch, I will try some flying in tht
> configuration.
>
Prop clearance is no problem, since he is flying a three blade. One of the
things that is confusing me is that the Firestar cage has a built in factor
that sets the engine to the same angle to the bottom of the wing. His Mark
III is not set to that angle, it is considerably flatter. He measured it yes
terday and the engine is set at a 15 degree angle lower than the wing.
Therefore it would lead a back yard UL mech like me to think that there
might be some corelation between angle. The 618 engine is a powerful force,
one would think that it might just want to go in the direction that it was
pointed rather than where those little wings are angled.
How about it Dennis. When I decided to get into this sport, I called you
at "old Kolb" and you said that a Firestar was more fun than a Mark III. If
they all fly like Ron's I can see what you mean. It is not nearly as much
fun as mine.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Cox" <lightflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Air Sports Expo 2001 Why go? |
Air Sports Expo 2001 Feb. 8-10, 2001 Indianapolis,
IN Convention Center
The Air Sports Expo is a joint convention of the Soaring Society of
America, American Balloon Federation, U. S. Hang Glider Association, and the
U. S. Ultralight Association. There will be 52,500 sq. ft. of indoor
exhibit space. Exhibitors already registered include:
Aero-Works Hexadyne Aviation
Aircraft Spruce The New Kolb Co.
Buckeye Industries Lockwood Aviation
BRS Quicksilver
Manufacturing
Destiny Powered Parachutes RANS
H - Power Limited Recreational Power
Engineering
FORUM PRESENTERS FOR YOUR EDUCATION AND ENERTAINMENT INCLUDE:
Reggie DeLoach: pilot/instructor and the ultralight world's answer to Don
Rickles!
Dennis Demeter: UL pioneer and noted writer.
Mike Jacober: pilot/instructor and noted Alaskan Trike flyer.
Dan Johnson: Last year's Moody Award winner, Dan has flown and written
pilot reports on more UL models than most
of us have seen!
Phil Lockwood: Manufacturer/pilot of the Air Cam on many South American
adventures and noted Rotax authority.
Chuck S.: UL pioneer, attending Chuck's forum presentation alone should
be worth the trip!
+ forums presented by the other groups.
HEAR THE FAA ON SPORT PILOT
The FAA's Mike Henry (GA Div. Manager), Sue Gardner (Sport and
Recreational Aviation Manager, and Sport pilot team Manager), and a
representative from the Small aircraft directorate (team who will set "light
Aircraft" airworthyness certification standards) will appear. Check the Air
Sports Expo page at Http://www.usua.com for exact scheduled days and
times. Jane Garvey has been invited but has as yet not accepted. Let's
turn Mark Smith loose on 'em!
ULTRALIGHT AWARDS LUNCHEON
Get to see Homer Kolb accept the 2001 Moody Award and Bob C. accept
the National Championship in the two place Class.
USUA ULTRALIGHT PARTY
Get down and crazy with the event's crowning get-to-gether. An
irreverent, non-Alcoholic family orientated event.
What will Sam Cox and Dave Hempy do this year?
SCHEDULE:
Thursday Feb. 8
9AM - Noon USUA Regional Representatives Session
10 AM - 4:30 PM Ultralight Forums & Exhibit Hall open
Friday Feb. 9
9 AM - 11 AM USUA general membership meeting
10 AM - 4:30 PM Ultralight Forums & Exhibit Hall open
11:30 AM - 1:15 PM Ultralight Awards Luncheon ( $15 USUA
members / $20 non members)
Saturday Feb. 10
9 AM - 10:30 AM Wrap-up Session
10 AM - 4:30 PM Ultralight Forums & Exhibit Hall open
7:30 PM - 10 PM USUA Ultralight Party ($10 USUA
members / $15 non-members)
ENTRY FEES:
Forums and Exhibit Hall / 3 days USUA Members $20 / non-members
$28 (includes 1 yr. of member privileges)
Family members FREE
$10
USUA BFI/AFI CLINIC Sunday Feb 11 9 AM - Noon
(301)695-9100 Members $69 /
non-members $84
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dynafocal mounts |
Rody,
I for one would sure like to better understand how to build on. thanks
...Richard Swiserski
----- Original Message -----
From: "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:27 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: dynafocal mounts
>
> A few years ago I designed a dynafocal mount system for a batch
centrifuge.
> It is somewhat involved as you choose a mount with a known vertical and
> horizontal stiffness and then work through the geometry based on all the
> distances and angles. There are an infinite number of solutions and every
> change affects everything else. It's not just a matter of aiming the
mounts
> toward the C.G. You also "tune" the system natural frequency with the
> mounts & geometry so you're not near an operating speed. I can dig up the
> procedure if anyone is interested.
>
> Rody in Cincinnati (MK3Xtra)
>
> From: gerken(at)us.ibm.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: raise engine
>
>
> Denny wrote:
>
> >Kolbers,
> >I am considering ways to raise the engine on my Mk-3.
> >I would like to get some opinions.
> >My idea is to machine four aluminum 1 1/2" tall risers for under each
> >Lord mount.
> >They would be the same size as the Lord mounts when looking down on them
> >and have a 2" center hole to match the isolators and the holes in the
> >airframe. They would also have the four 3/16" corner holes.
> >They would set on the airframe where the Lord mounts usually go and the
> >Lord mounts would set on top of them with four longer 3/16 bolts tying
> >each stack together.
> >The 690L would than be mounted on a plate pretty much the same as the
> >stock 582 mount.
> >I feel that this would be about the lightest possible way to raise the
> >engine a little and should still be plenty strong.
> >What do you all think?
> >The main reasons I have for raising the engine is to access the case
> >bolts under the engine for easy retorqing, and to allow some room for my
> >rad mounts.
>
> Your idea sounds good to me, except I'd add to put steel snubbers under
the
> plate for safety. Snubbers are in the Barry mount catalog, and are like
> giant washers to hold things from going too far, or to hold things
together
> in case of failure of the rubber or some of the bolts. The washer or
> snubber is sized so it cannot pull through the hole, and its thick enough
> to be strong enough to hold everything together as a last resort.
> Otherwise, your idea sounds good, try it, and like Dennis always told me,
> just keep an eye on it until you get some time and experience with it
> (checks bolts often).
>
> If I was to do it all over again, I'd consider changing the shock mount
> positions from the flat four pattern to the dynafocal type mount.
> Dynafocal, or some reasonable implementation of it, tries to focus the
> imbalance forces from the rocking engine more straight down through the
> shock mounts. Look at a Rans S12 engine mount for ideas. As a simplified
> example of this technique, imagine taking the flat plate we have bolted to
> the bottom of our engines, and extending it out to the sides by maybe 5"
on
> each side, and then bending it upward on each side at maybe a 45 degree
> angle. The Lord mounts would then be mounted out there on those upturned
> flanges, and mate up with aircraft structure made to match the angle. If
> you sight through the shock mount center hole you'd be looking through the
> side of the crankcase at a point approx just at or just above the
> crankshaft. Make sense? Doing this would raise the engine 1.5" minimum.
> The benefit would be better vibration isolation from the engine to the
> airframe. It also makes room for a bigger prop, which is probably another
> good goal.
>
> Jim G
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> John;
> The difficulty with Ron's machine is that it drives the planes snghle
> of attack so low that it requires full up to compensate. The throw on the
> elevator is substancial.
Larry and Kolbers:
The more power and thrust you produce with a top mounted
pusher, the more it will drive the nose down and the more up
elevator it will take to over come the pitch down.
The difference between the 65 hp 582 and the 80 hp 912 take
off and climb characteristics on my own MK III was
negligible.
However, the first takeoff with the 912S was done with an
increased size prop, from 70" to 72" and a 20 hp power
increase. I came back on the power because it felt as if
thrust was overpowering the elevator. I learned quickly to
roll on the throttle more slowly, get the airplane moving
with more air over the tail section. Now, after 95 hours,
it is a no brainer to make good max performance takeoffs.
After a long layoff, I will have to teach myself to fly the
912S powered MK III once more.
OK, a 618 puts out 75 hp quickly, 470 lbs of pilot and
passenger way up front, only 30 lbs of fuel behind the
bulkhead, aprx 20 degs of flaps, and again I say there was
nothing wrong with the MK III and I am glad you all did
think of something else to add you your already overloaded
flight profile.
> How about it Dennis. When I decided to get into this sport, I called you
> at "old Kolb" and you said that a Firestar was more fun than a Mark III. If
> they all fly like Ron's I can see what you mean. It is not nearly as much
> fun as mine.
> Larry
Now, if you overloaded and overpowered your Firestar, you
would probably put it in the same class as Ron's MK III. I
can assure you, they (MK III's) all do not fly like Ron's
when it is configured the way you flew it. The Firestar may
well be more fun to fly for Dennis than the MK III. That is
his opinion. I for one like my old MK III. There is not
another airplane that will do for me all the things it can
and will do. That is why I have been flying it for as long
as I have and why I will continue to fly it, if I don't
break it. ;-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Peterson <b1bookie(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Kolb Pilot |
--- Dale Seitzer wrote:
> > I am very lucky and proud.
>
> Dale Seitzer
>
> Hi Kids........what a great thing the two of you
have going. Congratulations and keep on loving what
you love to do and everything will 'fall in
place'...........Bill
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry & Karen Cottrel" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
>
> OK, a 618 puts out 75 hp quickly, 470 lbs of pilot and
> passenger way up front, only 30 lbs of fuel behind the
> bulkhead, aprx 20 degs of flaps, and again I say there was
> nothing wrong with the MK III and I am glad you all did
> think of something else to add you your already overloaded
> flight profile.
I took the time to look up the spec of the Mark III. According to Kolbs
specs. we still had 40 lbs before we were overloaded. It is possibile that
my memory is faulty, but I believe that the weight of the plane is 460.
Unless my calculator is in need of batteries that only makes 960. The max is
1000. I have flown my firestar at gross weight and it does not fly like
that! Perhaps this plane is performing as it is supposed to do, but I don't
think so. I think that Mr Pike might be a lot closer to the solution, since
I think that it is a set up problem, just not smart enough to solve it.
Well now that we have that settled we can go back to rivets again.
larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: New Kolb Pilot |
You are very lucky! Hope you have a lot of good times together.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>I am pleased to announce that my wife Bettie Seitzer soloed in OUR Original
>Firestar #32 on1/28/01 at Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota.
>Now the problem is how are we going to share the plane! She has been
>talking about the experience non stop since then--it is cool to see her
>excited about the same thing I love. She now is trying to decide if we
>should get another Firestar or get a Mark III! She is making plans for
>cross country flights and adventures--now I will have someone to help setup
>and loading.
>
>I am very lucky and proud.
>
>Dale Seitzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Kolb Pilot |
Congratulations, you both gotta be tough, flying in those temps.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Seitzer" <dale(at)gmada.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: New Kolb Pilot
>
> I am pleased to announce that my wife Bettie Seitzer soloed in OUR
Original
> Firestar #32 on1/28/01 at Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota. She reads the list
> but has not contributed yet. She flew 2-25 minute flights and made 5 >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | torque limits for an bolts and nuts |
this link is a page i copied out of faa advisory circular
ac43.13-1b acceptable methods, techniques, and
practices--aircraft inspection and repair september 8
1998 page 7-9 table 7-1
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg
it is about 145 kb and takes less than 1 min at 48k
connection it should answer all the questions on torque
limits on the bolts we use on our aircraft.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
Here are some pictures Woody sent me for everyone to see.
Hope this works.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Page1.html
Click here
Enjoy,
Will
In a message dated 1/30/01 11:02:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
duesouth(at)govital.net writes:
> I have a couple pictures of Homers first flyer out back behind the
> barn. I could send out if anyone is interested and also one of his Osh kosh
> display his second year there before he had the ultrastar. If anyone has
>
I have included some other pics the group may find interesting including my
Kolb Lawn dart, New wing handles, Fabric foundation to remove some of the
scalloping between ribs and all the 3d pics I had of Kolb. The Flyer pics
were taken at Homers farm in 1979.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lightest Altenator |
Check the archives of the airsoob (subaru engine) mailing list. Lots of info
there.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: torque values |
> Torque values for cad-plated nut with oilfree theads. Note that torques
> are for tap size and not nut size! ---from P. 326 Northrop text:
>
> FINE-THREAD
cut, cut, cut..........
I just can't take it any more. Here's your challenge. Name the only
two bolts on a Kolb airframe that aren't in shear and , thus, the only
two for which torque values could possibly mean anything at all,
and even then ONLY if the structure is placed in a negative (not
normal) loading situation. Those bolts are......
Go ahead and torque the bolts all you want.....it doesn't matter for
99.99% of the installations!
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Weber" <bweber2(at)earthlink.net> |
Awhile back there was a discussion of the working on a bill of sale. It was
suggested that the plane be sold as parts rather than as an ultralight. A
friend is getting ready to unload his Quicksilver and would like an example.
Were any samples posted or does anyone have a sample they could email to me
directly?
Thanks
Bill Weber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com> |
Anybody ever been to the Sun-n-Fun engine seminars on Rotax?
Are they real classes or just stand around and listen workshops?
Would you get everything you need to do all your own maintenance,
tune-ups, etc.?
Do they cost anything?
The web site says nothing on them yet.
Thanks all
=====
John & Lynn Richmond :-)
Palm Coast, Fl.
Mk3, 582
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
Here are some pictures Woody sent me for everyone to see.
Hope this works.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Page1.html
Click here
Enjoy,
Will
Woody it would seem from picture 1 that you are NOT using the standard Kolb
airfoil. For curiousity sake I am interested in what airfoil your using and
what are the design goals of the change and expectations for performance
differences??? Double surface should lend itself well to a good tight
fabric job as well.
Jeremy "Curiousity ain't killed me yet" Casey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Elder" <billelder(at)denver.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine seminars |
Just attended the 3-day Rotax 4 cycle seminar at Southern Mississippi Light
Aircraft in Lucedale. Instructor (Eric) was a consultant for Rotax. Tore
down a 912 from top to bottom and reassembled. Instructor was TOTALLY
knowlegeable, and presented practical information from daily preflight
through TBO. 2 cycle class pressented the three day period prior to the 4
day class. Cost was a pretty steep $450 but considering the cost of the
engines, one screwup could well exceed that amount. Attended this class on
recommendation of John Hauck. Schedule for future classes avail on Rotax
owner's website.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, February 01, 2001 5:42 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Engine seminars
>
>Anybody ever been to the Sun-n-Fun engine seminars on Rotax?
>
>Are they real classes or just stand around and listen workshops?
>
>Would you get everything you need to do all your own maintenance,
>tune-ups, etc.?
>
>Do they cost anything?
>
>The web site says nothing on them yet.
>
>Thanks all
>
>=====
>John & Lynn Richmond :-)
>Palm Coast, Fl.
>Mk3, 582
>
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
>a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Kolb Pilot |
In a message dated 1/31/01 10:29:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richard(at)BCChapel.org writes:
> >I am very lucky and proud.
> >
> >Dale Seitzer
>
>
as indeed you should be!
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart(at)ncfcomm.com> |
| Subject: | kolb on steroids? |
This is a great picture. About a couple months ago, I found the picture,
and played with it using Photoshop. Take a look at the second picture down
on http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/challenger/fun_pics.htm to see the results.
:>)
J.D. Stewart
UltraFun AirSports
http://www.ultrafunairsports.com
Challenger Owners E-mail list and Website Administrator
http://www.users.ncfcomm.com/challenger
> Photo of Jet Breaking the Sound Barrier...
>
> http://ops.tamu.edu/x075bb/temp/hornetsb1.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Singer <hp2693(at)netzero.net> |
There is a virus out there called "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" that
has been sent to me twice now off of the Mike Williams (MW-list) list.
It is an ultralight builders list from England. It will delete your
hard drive if you open the attachment and send itself to everyone on
your e-mail list. Bob in Missouri
Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Postman" <postman(at)telemetrix.net> |
Please post a correction to the message you sent to everyone regarding
the Snow-White virus. This virus does not delete everything on your hard
drive, it simply modifies your WinSock (wsock32.dll) and sends multiple
copies of itself to everyone in your address book. It either appears as
an executable (a .exe file) or a Windows only screen saver (a .scr file)
when they receive it.
Please take the time to verify and validate virus wanrings you send to
people, especially ones you send to people on a mass mailing list. You
will save yourself a lot of un-needed embarassment and unwanted hate
mail. Think about what you're actually contributing to by send these
warnings to people, in most cases, it's your own unpopularity.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Singer" <hp2693(at)netzero.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 09:56 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Virus alert
>
> There is a virus out there called "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" that
> has been sent to me twice now off of the Mike Williams (MW-list) list.
> It is an ultralight builders list from England. It will delete your
> hard drive if you open the attachment and send itself to everyone on
> your e-mail list. Bob in Missouri
>
>
> Shop online without a credit card
> http://www.rocketcash.com
> RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Please post a correction to the message you sent to everyone regarding
> the Snow-White virus.
Hi Gang:
Anytime you get one of these "beware of sudden death
syndrome" type msgs, go to this url and check it out before
you forward to another 300 people, :-)
http://www.smsu.edu/contrib/library/resource/hoaxes.html
There are enough links and information here to answer any
questions about virus, hoax, scams, phonies, etc.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> J Baker, You are quite right. ---Prop bolts though are in both tension
> and shear. ...The military reason for torque values, after you get past
> all the high-falutin' stretch properties and such, was to prevent the
> farm boys from using the "smoke limit" (tighten til it smokes plus
> one half turn)
> slyck
Hi Feelers:
Reckon it pays to use a good torque wrench and pay attention
to values when assembling engines and gear boxes. In some
cases, over or under torching will ruin your day. Maybe not
today but one day on down the line.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ?? |
Kolbers.
I need a quik metallurgy review.
What is the differance between 2024 and 6061? Whick is stronger? I am
talking flat plate and angle hear.
Thanks in advance.
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Hi Feelers:
>
> Reckon it pays to use a good torque wrench and pay attention
> john h
Howdy Gang:
Ya'll are gonna have a good time with my last greeting,
ain't cha? Better head for my bunker now.
I was really trying to type feller, but............. Guess
I better start proof reading. I did do a spell check, but
of course, feelers is spelled correctly, so what can I say
except, excuseeeeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :-)
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com> |
| Subject: | 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ?? |
6061 has a tensile strength range from 20,000 to 42,000 psi
2024 has a tensile strength range from 30,000 to 63,000 psi
-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Rowe [mailto:rowedl(at)alltel.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:32 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ??
Kolbers.
I need a quik metallurgy review.
What is the differance between 2024 and 6061? Whick is stronger? I am
talking flat plate and angle hear.
Thanks in advance.
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Singer <hp2693(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | Snow White Virus correction |
Please post a correction to the message you sent to everyone regarding
the Snow-White virus. This virus does not delete everything on your hard
drive, it simply modifies your WinSock (wsock32.dll) and sends multiple
copies of itself to everyone in your address book. It either appears as
an executable (a .exe file) or a Windows only screen saver (a .scr file)
when they receive it.
Sorry for the mis-information but it is still out there, I got it sent
to me twice more today. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ?? |
2024 is stronger, 6061 is cheaper and more corrosion resistant.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:32 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ??
>
> Kolbers.
> I need a quik metallurgy review.
> What is the differance between 2024 and 6061? Whick is stronger? I am
> talking flat plate and angle hear.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Denny
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
>
>I took up a person weighing 360 lbs in a TwinStar Mark-II with a 503. I
>probably weighed around 200 at the time.
Seems we all have a fat guy story. I volunteered my flying services to
our aviation club to take a reporter up for a flight in my Twinstar with 55
hp Hirth. I talked to the guy on the phone to set it up. The next day
while waiting for him to show up I unfolded the plane. As I finished I
turned around and saw 300 lb of meat walking toward me. Couldn't back out
now. It was hard to taxi with him in. Soon as I gave it the gas it went
over on it's nose. I had to make a practice run down the runway learning
how to balance the Twinstar on 2 wheels while gently giving it the gas. I
did get him up and climbed about 300 ft/min. In the air all was fine.
Except for the constant muttering under my breath about how stupid I was.
A newspaper story is not worth the risk I took that day not only to myself
but to the ultralight community and the Kolb name. Now I do not take anyone
over 220 lbs. Sorry dems da rules. In Andy's mk3 we use the short seat belt
method to keep the heavy weights out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Picture Homer Kolb 1956 |
What ever you do don't tell Homer or Dennis. I found the airfoil in the
1932 Flying and Glider Manual available from the EAA. It is on an aircraft
called the flying bath tub. It has the same basic measurements of the Kolb
same weight, Wingspan ect. but the takeoff speed is said to be 20 mph and
cruise is 65. All this on 30 hp. Sounds good enough for me to give it a
try. If not I am out a couple hundred bucks but at least I tried. Perhaps
that is why it is called experimental aviation. I think it is an Eifel
profile and is similar to a Peitnpol but thinner.
I have checked photos Will posted any of the double pictures print
them out and view them through an old stereoscope for a 3d image. If you
don't have a stereoscope look at the two images cross eyed untill you see 3
images. The images must be swapped right to left for proper cross eyed
viewing..The middle one will be in 3d. The 4 people in the group shot are
Clara Kolb. Homer Kolb, Bill Futell (Thumb) and Andy Bondy. I think the
skinny guy standing in front of the Kolb tent with white shorts is Dennnis.
>Woody it would seem from picture 1 that you are NOT using the standard Kolb
>airfoil. For curiousity sake I am interested in what airfoil your using and
>what are the design goals of the change and expectations for performance
>differences??? Double surface should lend itself well to a good tight
>fabric job as well.
>
>Jeremy "Curiousity ain't killed me yet" Casey
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ?? |
Thanks Dude, guess I had better use 3/8" x 3" flat bar for my motor mount
plates since it is 6061 instead of the called for 2024. Oh well, the 1/4"
ones I already made will make good patterns.
Denny, building an awsome motor mount in western freezen PA. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Kottke, Dwight <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:57 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ??
>
> 6061 has a tensile strength range from 20,000 to 42,000 psi
> 2024 has a tensile strength range from 30,000 to 63,000 psi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Denny Rowe [mailto:rowedl(at)alltel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:32 PM
> To: kolb-list
> Subject: Kolb-List: 2024 T-3 vs 6061-T-6 ??
>
>
> Kolbers.
> I need a quik metallurgy review.
> What is the differance between 2024 and 6061? Whick is stronger? I am
> talking flat plate and angle hear.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Denny
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> > J Baker, You are quite right. ---Prop bolts though are in both tension
> > and shear. .......snip
> > slyck
>
> Hi Feelers:
>
> Reckon it pays to use a good torque wrench and pay attention
> to values when assembling engines and gear boxes....snip
>
> john h
>
Well here's the problem. Torquing a bolt that is loaded in shear isn't
necessary in *most* cases. The reason no torque values were
given in the construction manual is because it wasn't necessary to
do so.
Kolb propulsion units naturally have a host of torque values
associated with them so that's why I specified
"Name the only two bolts on a Kolb airframe......"
As for prop bolts in tension and shear...t'aint so. Prop bolts in
shear will last about as long as it takes to type this note. Tension
imparts friction loading between the prop and the hub which is the
preferred attachment modality......
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> Ya'll are gonna have a good time with my last greeting,
> ain't cha? Better head for my bunker now.
>
> I was really trying to type feller, but............. Guess
> I better start proof reading. I did do a spell check, but
> of course, feelers is spelled correctly, so what can I say
> except, excuseeeeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :-)
Nope......I thought the
" In some cases, over or under torching will ruin your day."
was the right sentiment. I've over-torched several times but can't
recall any serious under-torching incidents.......; )
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> > Ya'll are gonna have a good time with my last greeting,
> > ain't cha? Better head for my bunker now.
> >
> > I was really trying to type feller, but............. Guess
> > I better start proof reading. I did do a spell check, but
> > of course, feelers is spelled correctly, so what can I say
> > except, excuseeeeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :-)
>
> Nope......I thought the
>
> " In some cases, over or under torching will ruin your day."
>
> was the right sentiment. I've over-torched several times but can't
> recall any serious under-torching incidents.......; )
>
>
> J.Baker
>
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
Julian, you've created a monster ! ! ! I just can't leave it alone.
Earlier in the week, I published "Sky Diving," and tonight I published
"Starting the Cabin." There'll probably be more over the weekend. ( My
weekend starts tomorrow, and ends Sunday. ) Creative
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/1/01 11:13:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jlbaker(at)telepath.com writes:
> Kolb propulsion units naturally have a host of torque values
> associated with them so that's why I specified
>
> "Name the only two bolts on a Kolb airframe......"
>
> As for prop bolts in tension and shear...t'aint so. Prop bolts in
> shear will last about as long as it takes to type this note. Tension
> imparts friction loading between the prop and the hub which is the
> preferred attachment modality......
>
>
> J.Baker
>
You tellumJ!.....I'm an engineer but only electrical and I forget about the
shearness and tension business....could you expain .... to most of us dummies
whassup there?
As I recall materials have a shear strength and and compressive strength and
a Tensile stength all expressed in Psi and ya never want to go beyond youngs
modulus or the "yield" .....there .... I said everything I know....can you
hep?
GeoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bonnie Juneau <bjuneau(at)megagate.com> |
| Subject: | Firestar II For Sale |
For Sale: Kolb Firestar II, N717RJ, Oil injected Rotax 503, DC, DCDI,
61.5 hrs. T/T engine and air frame, custom trailer, many extras. phone
no. 601/798-1822
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZepRep251(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: torque wrench calibration |
Ask any A&P mechanic. There is a specific time interval for calibration and
certification of torque wrenches and they can tell you where to have it done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar II For Sale |
Hi Ron,
What are you asking for your plane? (Hate to hear your selling) I have a
couple of friends that may be interested. Also is the trailer open or
enclosed?
P.S. In case you may have forgot we met at South Ms Light Aircraft flyin in
Oct. and I still haven't finished painting my Firestar. Also if you don't
mind me asking, have you found something you like better or just getting out
of the sport.
Later,
John Cooley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonnie Juneau" <bjuneau(at)megagate.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar II For Sale
>
> For Sale: Kolb Firestar II, N717RJ, Oil injected Rotax 503, DC, DCDI,
> 61.5 hrs. T/T engine and air frame, custom trailer, many extras. phone
> no. 601/798-1822
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar II For Sale |
In a message dated 2/2/01 6:39:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bjuneau(at)megagate.com writes:
> For Sale: Kolb Firestar II, N717RJ, Oil injected Rotax 503, DC, DCDI,
> 61.5 hrs. T/T engine and air frame, custom trailer, many extras. phone
> no. 601/798-1822
>
>
>
Where are you located?
Shack
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
>> Tension
> > imparts friction loading between the prop and the hub which is the
> > preferred attachment modality......
> >
> >
> > J.Baker
> >
> You tellumJ!.....I'm an engineer but only electrical and I forget about the
> shearness and tension business....could you expain ....
Nothing to do with Young's or yeild or anything else so
difficult....simply that the prop bolts are only there to apply
pressure to the prop hub face in sufficient quantity to create
enough friction between the prop hub and the drive hub to keep
them from moving. Sure way to tell if the bolts have ever been loose
on a wood prop is the hub will be heat discolored.
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | 582 dual radiators size? |
I still need to know the width and length of the dual rads on a 582.
Anyone
Please
Pretty Please!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/02/01 |
In a message dated 2/3/01 2:58:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> Kolb-List: 582 dual radiators size?
>
dual rad. for 582--618 -- 14 1/2" wide x 20" tall (including the hose
loop at the bottom). i have one for sale if anyone is interested.
these measurements are for the radiator itself, not any attachments or
brackets.
safe flying
kolb mk3
upstate ny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dixieshack(at)webtv.net (orie shackelford) |
GeoR38, Ol' Poops, or anyone that has experience with fuel
systems...HELP!
I'm about to install a 503 DCDI on my completed Firestar and am
considering buying an electric pump to use for takeoffs and landings
ad/or a redundant system should the diaphragm pump fail. Here are my
questions and direction I'm considering. Criticize me!
Depending on who you ask, "they" (dealers) say that when using both
electric and pulse pumps, run them in parallel. To me, this would make
two separate systems but joined at the fuel source and the carbs AND
making check valves necessary to keep from pumping fuel back to tank
instead of to the carbs in the event of a pulse pump failure. You'd
also have to have a fuel pressure gauge in an obvious place to even know
when the pulse pump died. (prior to silence, that is) I'm considering
hooking them is series with the electric at or below tank level to boost
fuel to the pulse pump so it doesn't have to lift so far. Lets say I've
hooked in series for the following questions:
In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet located
below? When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni if the
Mikuni fails? In using both pumps for take off and landing like the
Cherokee's will I overpressure the carbs?
What concerns me is the length the little Mikuni has to lift the fuel in
a Kolb. What's the published vertcal limit....somethin' like 11
inches...?
I want it dependable but don't want to create any monsters if it isn't
necessary. I need opinions from you guys who've had experience in this
area. Help! Thanks guys.
Hillbilly Mike from West Virginia
FSII, BRS, EIS, 68" Powerfin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Hatcher" <clive_hatcher(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | 582 & 618 dual rad size? |
Denny,
I have a Rotax 582 on a Mk III
My radiators measure :- Height 13.5"
Overall(Including Vent)
Width 4.75" Overall (each)
Thickness 4.25" Over the mounting Lugs
The two rads are spaced 5.75" apart
The Cooling matrix is :-Height 8.5"
Width 4.5"
Thickness 2"
I assume that Rotax supply the same rads in the US
as they do in the UK
Hope this helps,
Clive.
-----Original Message-----
Can anyone with the 582 or 618 dual rad setup give
me the height & width
of the rads?
Thanks,
Denny
============
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============
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============
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============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Morning Orie and Kolbers:
I think if you go to the archives you will find a lot of
information on fuel systems.
I ran a Facet and Mikuni in series on my 447 powered
Firestar for 755 hours; 582, 912, 912S for the past 1450
hours; and intend to keep flying it that way until I make my
last flight in it. It works for me. I use the backup fuel
system just like you describe.
Reference the dealers, I do not know many dealers that fly a
lot. They spend more time on the telephone than they do in
the air.
Take care,
john h
> I'm considering
> hooking them is series with the electric at or below tank level to boost
> fuel to the pulse pump so it doesn't have to lift so far. Lets say I've
> hooked in series for the following questions:
> In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet located
> below?
YES
> When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni if the
> Mikuni fails?
YES
> In using both pumps for take off and landing like the
> Cherokee's will I overpressure the carbs?
NO
> Hillbilly Mike from West Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/02/01 |
| From: | Scott and Pam Trask <PTrask(at)diisd.org> |
on 2/3/01 1:58 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server at kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com
wrote:
>
> From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: 582 dual radiators size?
>
>
> I still need to know the width and length of the dual rads on a 582.
>
> Anyone
>
>
> Please
>
> Pretty Please!
>
> Denny
>
Hi Denny and list
I had used a 912 radiator on my 582 and had to cover part of it. It was
running to cool, after I discovered that I wish I had tried a heater core
from a jeep that I had it was new. It doesn't take much to cool that engine.
What ever you do, don't run it to cold they have know to seize on take off
(cold shock). When you mount the radiator place somewhere on the air frame
not on the engine, less vibration on the radiator.
Scott Trask MK111 912
Iron Mountain MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net> |
Mike,
I have seen many Kolbs flying fine with the impulse pump and a primer bulb.
If the impulse pump does ok pumping in series through the bulbs check
valves, it should also be able to pump through a boost pump, and I know the
boost pump will pump through the impulse pump. From the list I guess that
Kolbers are evenly split on the series vs parallel question, I prefer the
series setup for its simplicity.
I am building my Mk-3 fuel system with the Facet electric pump in series
with the impulse and only planning on using the electric in the pattern .
I earned my licence in Cherokees)
I plan on making a fuel pressure check with each pump individual, and with
both pumps a part of my twice a year inspection and keep the three presures
recorded in the engine log.
My $.000002 worth, treat it accordingly.
Denny
----- Original Message -----
| From: | orie shackelford <dixieshack(at)webtv.net> |
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:11 AM
>
> GeoR38, Ol' Poops, or anyone that has experience with fuel
> systems...HELP!
> I'm about to install a 503 DCDI on my completed Firestar and am
> considering buying an electric pump to use for takeoffs and landings
> ad/or a redundant system should the diaphragm pump fail. Here are my
> questions and direction I'm considering. Criticize me!
> Depending on who you ask, "they" (dealers) say that when using both
> electric and pulse pumps, run them in parallel. To me, this would make
> two separate systems but joined at the fuel source and the carbs AND
> making check valves necessary to keep from pumping fuel back to tank
> instead of to the carbs in the event of a pulse pump failure. You'd
> also have to have a fuel pressure gauge in an obvious place to even know
> when the pulse pump died. (prior to silence, that is) I'm considering
> hooking them is series with the electric at or below tank level to boost
> fuel to the pulse pump so it doesn't have to lift so far. Lets say I've
> hooked in series for the following questions:
> In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet located
> below? When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni if the
> Mikuni fails? In using both pumps for take off and landing like the
> Cherokee's will I overpressure the carbs?
> What concerns me is the length the little Mikuni has to lift the fuel in
> a Kolb. What's the published vertcal limit....somethin' like 11
> inches...?
> I want it dependable but don't want to create any monsters if it isn't
> necessary. I need opinions from you guys who've had experience in this
> area. Help! Thanks guys.
>
> Hillbilly Mike from West Virginia
> FSII, BRS, EIS, 68" Powerfin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/02/01 |
Scott/Listers,
From the sounds of it, you are sizing the radiator to determine the
temperature of your cooling system. The proper method is to use a radiator
slightly bigger than you need and use a thermostat to regulate coolant
tempt. Also make sure you have a bypass hose going from the top of engine to
water pump iinput. If you are flying without a thermostat, you are setting
yourself up for cold a seizure. ...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott and Pam Trask" <PTrask(at)diisd.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 02/02/01
>
> on 2/3/01 1:58 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server at
kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> wrote:
>
> >
> > From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
> > Subject: Kolb-List: 582 dual radiators size?
> >
> >
> > I still need to know the width and length of the dual rads on a 582.
> >
> > Anyone
> >
> >
> > Please
> >
> > Pretty Please!
> >
> > Denny
> >
> Hi Denny and list
> I had used a 912 radiator on my 582 and had to cover part of it. It was
> running to cool, after I discovered that I wish I had tried a heater core
> from a jeep that I had it was new. It doesn't take much to cool that
engine.
> What ever you do, don't run it to cold they have know to seize on take off
> (cold shock). When you mount the radiator place somewhere on the air
frame
> not on the engine, less vibration on the radiator.
> Scott Trask MK111 912
> Iron Mountain MI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri, |
Denny,
Even though the recommended max. fuel pressure is 6#, the float needle &
seat must be easily capable of holding that & more as witnessed by so many
successful setups using 2 pumps in series. This setup might even be a great
way to extend richness control & therefore EGT during extreme conditions
like long full power climbs. If you jet your engine for recommended EGT
using only the pulse pump, then when you engage the electric pump, the
pressure will increase which in turn will raise the float level which in
turn will provide a richer mixture which inturn will bring down EGT &
provide extra lubrication & cooling for the more extreme engine loads.
Conversely, your could jet your engine for full throttle with both pumps
running & then turn off one to lean it up in cruise. All this would depend
on whether the float level is significantly raised by increasing the fuel
pressure 50-100% as a 3.5# Facet pump would tend to do. My pulse pump
pressures run about 3# idle to 4.5# full throttle.
Anyone out there with dual series pumps ever checked your EGT at full
throttle with your electric pump turned off & then turned on? You guys got
my curiosity up. ...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)alltel.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 10:26 AM
>
> Mike,
> I have seen many Kolbs flying fine with the impulse pump and a primer
bulb.
> If the impulse pump does ok pumping in series through the bulbs check
> valves, it should also be able to pump through a boost pump, and I know
the
> boost pump will pump through the impulse pump. From the list I guess that
> Kolbers are evenly split on the series vs parallel question, I prefer the
> series setup for its simplicity.
> I am building my Mk-3 fuel system with the Facet electric pump in series
> with the impulse and only planning on using the electric in the pattern .
> I earned my licence in Cherokees)
> I plan on making a fuel pressure check with each pump individual, and with
> both pumps a part of my twice a year inspection and keep the three
presures
> recorded in the engine log.
>
> My $.000002 worth, treat it accordingly.
>
> Denny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: orie shackelford <dixieshack(at)webtv.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:11 AM
>
>
> >
> > GeoR38, Ol' Poops, or anyone that has experience with fuel
> > systems...HELP!
> > I'm about to install a 503 DCDI on my completed Firestar and am
> > considering buying an electric pump to use for takeoffs and landings
> > ad/or a redundant system should the diaphragm pump fail. Here are my
> > questions and direction I'm considering. Criticize me!
> > Depending on who you ask, "they" (dealers) say that when using both
> > electric and pulse pumps, run them in parallel. To me, this would make
> > two separate systems but joined at the fuel source and the carbs AND
> > making check valves necessary to keep from pumping fuel back to tank
> > instead of to the carbs in the event of a pulse pump failure. You'd
> > also have to have a fuel pressure gauge in an obvious place to even know
> > when the pulse pump died. (prior to silence, that is) I'm considering
> > hooking them is series with the electric at or below tank level to boost
> > fuel to the pulse pump so it doesn't have to lift so far. Lets say I've
> > hooked in series for the following questions:
> > In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet located
> > below? When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni if the
> > Mikuni fails? In using both pumps for take off and landing like the
> > Cherokee's will I overpressure the carbs?
> > What concerns me is the length the little Mikuni has to lift the fuel in
> > a Kolb. What's the published vertcal limit....somethin' like 11
> > inches...?
> > I want it dependable but don't want to create any monsters if it isn't
> > necessary. I need opinions from you guys who've had experience in this
> > area. Help! Thanks guys.
> >
> > Hillbilly Mike from West Virginia
> > FSII, BRS, EIS, 68" Powerfin
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
> Lets say I've hooked in series for the following questions:
> In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet
> located below? When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni
if
> the Mikuni fails?
orie shackelford
Orie,
I've never had a boost pump in all the years I've been flying, but I hear
about the guys that do have them. My concern is this: If a series boost
pump is used, it will pump through a failed Mikuni but it will also pump
fuel into the engine crankcase through the ruptured diaphragm and pulse
line thereby killing the engine. So if this is the case, why bother
having a series pump? If the boost pump is installed in the parallel
arrangement, then check valves would be needed to prevent shunting. This
would be the way to go, of course if a boost pump is installed. A dual
Mikuni won't help either because it shares a common diaphragm between the
pumps. The single Mikuni's are reliable and I had one that I used for 8
years. I decided to replace them every 3 years in the interest of safety.
Ralph Burtingame
Original FireStar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri, |
> Anyone out there with dual series pumps ever checked your EGT at full
> throttle with your electric pump turned off & then turned on? You guys got
> my curiosity up. ...Richard Swiderski
Richard and Gang:
Never noticed a difference in EGTs on the two strokes with
Facet on or off.
Should the fuel pressure override the float valve, you
wouldn't need an EGT to realize it was happening. I think
your engine performance would tell you that.
As far as jetting, I don't mess with jets normally with a
two stroke. The two strokes are set up at the factory to
run as such if they are propped correctly. Dial in the prop
loading and the EGTs and Cyl Head Temps will be where they
belong. Over load or under load the engine and the temps
will go crazy. If we chase the temps with jets and spark
plugs before we get the prop dialed in, we are looking for
head aches. Of course I am speaking of new engines that
have not been reengineered by one of us amateurs. If I had
an older engine, I would start by making sure it was jetted
to recommended standards and then prop it.
Lessons learned from a lot of mistakes, trials and
tribulations, and experiences the last 17 years playing with
these things.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
If a series boost
> pump is used, it will pump through a failed Mikuni but it will also pump
> fuel into the engine crankcase through the ruptured diaphragm and pulse
> line thereby killing the engine.
Ralph
Ralph and Gang:
Good thinking.
However, I have never heard of a diaphragm rupturing in a
Mikuni pump. I am not saying it won't happen, but know of
no case where it has. Has anyone else heard of a diaphragm
rupturing in a Mikuni pump? For that matter, I have never
had any knowledge of a diaphragm ruturing in a fuel pump on
an automobile. I am sure there are examples out there on
that.
Normally, Mikuni pulse pumps have valve problems long before
they have a ruptured diaphragm. Pulse line failures are
also very common.
I'll stick to my configuration of engine driven and electric
fuel pumps in series.
On my 912S, should the fuel pump diaphragm rupture, I may or
may not pump fuel into the crankcase. I am not sure. I
believe marine fuel pumps are dual diaphragm to prevent this
and explosions. Probably aircraft fuel pumps are configured
the same. I don't know right.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cavuontop(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri, |
2 Feb...
In a message dated 2/3/01 9:03:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
swiderskir(at)earthlink.net writes:
> All this would depend on whether the float level is significantly raised by
> increasing the fuel pressure 50-100% as a 3.5# Facet pump would tend to
> do.
Rich:
My experience suggests that an increase in fuel pressure has no
noticeable effect on the float level, the mixture, or egts. The needle valve
stops the fuel flow at the desired level in the carb bowl-- sufficient to
submerge the main jet-- and holds it there. I think the likely consequence
of pressure sufficient to overcome the needle valve would not be a mere
change in mixture, but probably some sort of failure mode that would begin
with excessive amounts of fuel being pushed through the main jet, proceed to
fuel spilling out of the sides of the bowl, and finally end with the engine
stopping from being flooded, and possibly fire.
The fuel delivery system in a 582 equipped Kolb is a relatively low
pressure/low flow system, and was originally designed with a simple outboard
motor squeeze ball, which was more than adequate to pump enough gas up the
carb bowls to get a start. I have noted this in other posts, but identical
looking facet pumps can have widely different specs, both in terms of PSI and
GPH. The only way you can tell them apart is the part number on the side.
In my Mark three I used the lowest flow, lowest pressure facet pump
you can buy, which is, as I recall, about 1.5 psi and about 6 gph. You need
very very little to back up the Mikuni engine driven pump, and by selecting a
more powerful pump could possibly overdrive the needle valve.
Keep in mind that unless properly designed a redundant system
installed in the name of safety can sometimes have the paradoxical effect of
making you far worse off than you were by introducing additional, more
complicated, failure modes. Be careful.
Mark R. Sellers
Kolb Twinstar Mark III
N496BM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri, |
2 Feb...
Mark,
The fuel level in the bowl is pratically determined by how the float arm
is bent/positioned given a certain atmosphereic pressure and a certain fuel
pressre. The relationship of the float arm determines the height of the
fuel, and the % of the float displacing fuel determines the pressure with
which the needle is being held into the seat. If you increase altitude,
less pressure is on fuel so level rises & richens. If you increase fuel
pressure (with needle & seat just at the balanced point) fuel will go past
needle untill a greater % of float is immersed & a greater force is applied
on needle into seat, stopping fuel flow & bringing it all back into
equallibrium, but with the level now higher & richer. So both atmoshereic
and fuel pressure can affect fuel level after after initial settings are
established.
My guess is that the float/needle force is significantly greater than
what is required to just stop fuel flow. Therefore the changes we see with
the low press Facet pump are not seen past the needle. ...Richard
Swiderski
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri,
2 Feb...
>
> In a message dated 2/3/01 9:03:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> swiderskir(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > All this would depend on whether the float level is significantly raised
by
> > increasing the fuel pressure 50-100% as a 3.5# Facet pump would tend to
> > do.
>
> Rich:
>
> My experience suggests that an increase in fuel pressure has no
> noticeable effect on the float level, the mixture, or egts. The needle
valve
> stops the fuel flow at the desired level in the carb bowl-- sufficient to
> submerge the main jet-- and holds it there. I think the likely
consequence
> of pressure sufficient to overcome the needle valve would not be a mere
> change in mixture, but probably some sort of failure mode that would begin
> with excessive amounts of fuel being pushed through the main jet, proceed
to
> fuel spilling out of the sides of the bowl, and finally end with the
engine
> stopping from being flooded, and possibly fire.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pumps in series/tempt changes? message of Fri, |
2 Feb...
Hello Mark and Gang:
> My experience suggests that an increase in fuel pressure has no
> noticeable effect on the float level, the mixture, or egt.
I agree with what you say Mark.
> I think the likely consequence
> of pressure sufficient to overcome the needle valve would not be a mere
> change in mixture, but probably some sort of failure mode that would begin
> with excessive amounts of fuel being pushed through the main jet, proceed to
> fuel spilling out of the sides of the bowl, and finally end with the engine
> stopping from being flooded, and possibly fire.
Based on experience once more, when the two stroke Rotax and
Cuyuna
goes over rich, it shuts down right now, just like hitting
the kill switch. I learned that with a cockpit adjustable
main jet.
> In my Mark three I used the lowest flow, lowest pressure facet pump
> you can buy, which is, as I recall, about 1.5 psi and about 6 gph.
The Facet "40105" Solid State Electri Fuel Pump is a 2.5 to
4.5 Max PSI, 30 GPH. In fact all this series of pumps is
30GPH no matter what pressure they are regulated. I use
this pump. Aircraft Spruce has as good a price as anyone for
it. Auto Zone has them under the name of Purolator with the
pressure rating information on the package, if you want to
get one in a hurry.
> Keep in mind that unless properly designed a redundant system
> installed in the name of safety can sometimes have the paradoxical effect of
> making you far worse off than you were by introducing additional, more
> complicated, failure modes. Be careful.
>
> Mark R. Sellers
I lost a fuel pump on the 447/Firestar on a flight to
Oshkosh. The boost pump I had installed was a JC Whitney
Facet look alike that went "belly up" shortly after I
departed home. While playing around at the Flight Farm,
Monterey, NY, cutting toilet paper, the Mikuni fuel pump
failed. With no back up, a forced landing. Failure caused
by generic overhaul kit purchased from LEAF, under the guise
of the diaphragm was a Mikuni product. Not so.
Never lost a fuel pump on the MK III, but have always had
the Facet operating or standing by. If it is mechanical, it
is susceptible to malfunction, usually when we least expect
it.
Boost pump is like a parachute. Don't need it until we need
it.
Take care,
john h
PS: I am on coffee break from the "mole hole." Got the
doors, windshield off the MK III. Going for the rear
quarter windows next. Decided to leave the bulging doors as
they are configured. Had thought about taking some of the
curve out of them to clean the airplane up a little
aerodynamically, but after getting in the pilot's seat, I
realize that it is nice to have the extra room to move about
and not worth sacrificing that room to get another mile or
two per hour. Sides, might not make any difference after I
went to all the trouble to modify what I already have. ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mell" <kitplane(at)tradezone.com> |
, ,
| Subject: | Builders Neat Web Site |
Hello!
If any of you guys need/want a web site for your kitplane project or
airplane you can create one easily here and get listed with other
homebuilders:
http://www.kitplanesite.com/cgi-bin/creator/creator.cgi
It's pretty cool... check it out! :)
Mell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Facet Pump Fuel Flow |
Hey Gang:
I am defueling the MK III. Started by pumping with Facet
Elec Pump. Then a light bulb went off. Why not do a test,
right now, to see how much fuel flow restriction there is
through a Facet pump that is not operating. Several of you
have inquired.
After about 15 mins of siphoning from maybe a foot elevation
difference from bottom of fuel tank to 5 gal plastic can
(the mark of a true ultralighter), the fuel flow seems more
than adequate, to say there is little or no restriction.
Siphon flow is just a little less than flow with pump
operating. :-) This is good news to me too.
Take care,
john h
PS: Back to the "mole hole." Got an airplane to get
opertional.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Neat Web Site |
Hi Mell and Kolbers:
I took Mell up on his invite and started a new home page in
about 10 minutes, while on coffee break from the "mole
hole." Here's the url:
http://www.kitplanesite.com/hangar/hawk36.html
It was down and dirty, cause I ain't got time to mess with
the computer and get my airplane flying too.
Mell, I did not have time to read any of the help files, and
as dumb as I am when it comes to this sort of thing, I got
one started. One question for Mell: How do we post
pictures to our home page?
When I find time, I will try and finish what I have started
on the home page. You all give it a try.
Take care,
john h
N101AB
Kolb MK III
Titus, Alabama
Mell wrote:
>
>
> Hello!
>
> If any of you guys need/want a web site for your kitplane project or
> airplane you can create one easily here and get listed with other
> homebuilders:
>
> http://www.kitplanesite.com/cgi-bin/creator/creator.cgi
>
> It's pretty cool... check it out! :)
>
> Mell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
> However, I have never heard of a diaphragm rupturing in a
> Mikuni pump. I am not saying it won't happen, but know of
> no case where it has. Has anyone else heard of a diaphragm
> rupturing in a Mikuni pump? For that matter, I have never
> had any knowledge of a diaphragm ruturing in a fuel pump on
> an automobile. I am sure there are examples out there on
> that.
>
> Normally, Mikuni pulse pumps have valve problems long before
> they have a ruptured diaphragm. Pulse line failures are
> also very common.
>
> john h
John and gang,
If a Mikuni pump were to fail, I think the diaphragm is the only thing
that can go wrong. I don't think there are mechanical check valves in it
because the diaphragm flaps are the valves. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
If a boost pump were added in series it would only help if the pulse line
came off or was ruptured. I might add that I use auto fuel line for the
pulse line because it is designed for high temp conditions. I know some
of you guys will disagree with this but I've never had a problem with it
and would never consider substituting blue urethane fuel line for the
pulse line.
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
John and others,
Another thing to think about using a boost pump is the higher pressure
may actually be harder on the Mikuni diaphragm weakening it over time
causing a premature pump failure.
As Mark Sellers says, " Keep in mind that unless properly designed a
redundant system
installed in the name of safety can sometimes have the paradoxical effect
of making you far worse off than you were by introducing additional,
more complicated, failure modes. Be careful."
I couldn't agree more ......
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Ralph and Gang:
> If a Mikuni pump were to fail, I think the diaphragm is the only thing
> that can go wrong.
There are two other things that can go wrong. The inlet and
outlet flapper valves (part of the diaphragm) and the pulse
line from crank case to pump. And realistically, the hose
clamps on the inlet and outlet lines.
> I don't think there are mechanical check valves in it
> because the diaphragm flaps are the valves.
Yep. And they are the weakest link. They are made of
fabric and neoprene rubber and these little rascals are the
first to go "belly up."
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
> If a boost pump were added in series it would only help if the pulse line
> came off or was ruptured.
Wrong: If the pulse line comes off or is ruptured you will
lose that cylinder cause you will have a big vacumn and
pressure leak in the crank case. There is only the remotest
chance that the diaphragm is going to split, rupture, get a
hole in it, but it is possible. That is the least of my
worries with the Mikuni Pump. The first thing to go will be
the flapper valves. The Facet will push right thru them, no
sweat. > Ralph
Take care,
john h
PS: Miss P'fer has no more glass. All the rivets are out
of the airframe and door frames. :-) Did not drill my
finger one time during the entire operation. However, I did
break an 1/8 inch bit and half of it is inside my right door
frame. Don't tell anybody and they will never know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Ralph and You All:
> Another thing to think about using a boost pump is the higher pressure
> may actually be harder on the Mikuni diaphragm weakening it over time
> causing a premature pump failure.
Don't think so. 2.5 to 4.5 psi at the pump is negligible
pressure. The crank case pulses are raising a lot more Hell
with the diaphragm than the Facet pushing fuel through it.
The flapper valves are one way and that's the way the fuel
is going.
> Ralph
Again fellers, my own personal opinion established through
trial and error, and a lot of air time. Boy, I wish I had
had access to a Builders List like this back in the good ole
days. I remember trying to get old Kolb folks to give me a
roster of Kolb builders and owners so I could make contact
with them. I built and flew around here for a long time
before any other ULs came along.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: torque values |
> Go ahead and torque the bolts all you want.....it doesn't matter for
> 99.99% of the installations!
> J.Baker
I was thinking the same thing!
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/3/01 12:04:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes:
> Orie,
>
> I've never had a boost pump in all the years I've been flying, but I hear
> about the guys that do have them. My concern is this: If a series boost
> pump is used, it will pump through a failed Mikuni but it will also pump
> fuel into the engine crankcase through the ruptured diaphragm and pulse
> line thereby killing the engine. So if this is the case, why bother
> having a series pump? If the boost pump is installed in the parallel
> arrangement, then check valves would be needed to prevent shunting. This
> would be the way to go, of course if a boost pump is installed. A dual
> Mikuni won't help either because it shares a common diaphragm between the
> pumps. The single Mikuni's are reliable and I had one that I used for 8
> years. I decided to replace them every 3 years in the interest of safety.
>
>
> Ralph Burtingame
>
Orie I don't know nuthin bout back up pumps, cause I'm an old glider pilot
and think that the engine is a big plus
but thanks for askin....geoR38
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Rains" <rr(at)htg.net> |
Mike, last week I had a forced landing due to a fuel starvation problem.
This happened at about 100 AGL on takeoff. (If you have any pin holes in
your heart, they'll show up immediately) I assumed it was the pump, but
could not find anything wrong with it during re-build. On closer
examination, I found a crack in the pulse line under the clamp! This line
was not more than 3 months old. Regardless, I too wanted a redundant system
and installed a faucet pump in series. I checked to ensure that either pump
would function on it's own, and check to ensure the pulse pump is working
during run-up. Many thanks to all who answered my questions regarding this
matter.
Back n the air
Dave
El Paso
-----Original Message-----
| From: | orie shackelford <dixieshack(at)webtv.net> |
Date: Saturday, February 03, 2001 7:07 AM
>
>GeoR38, Ol' Poops, or anyone that has experience with fuel
>systems...HELP!
>I'm about to install a 503 DCDI on my completed Firestar and am
>considering buying an electric pump to use for takeoffs and landings
>ad/or a redundant system should the diaphragm pump fail. Here are my
>questions and direction I'm considering. Criticize me!
>Depending on who you ask, "they" (dealers) say that when using both
>electric and pulse pumps, run them in parallel. To me, this would make
>two separate systems but joined at the fuel source and the carbs AND
>making check valves necessary to keep from pumping fuel back to tank
>instead of to the carbs in the event of a pulse pump failure. You'd
>also have to have a fuel pressure gauge in an obvious place to even know
>when the pulse pump died. (prior to silence, that is) I'm considering
>hooking them is series with the electric at or below tank level to boost
>fuel to the pulse pump so it doesn't have to lift so far. Lets say I've
>hooked in series for the following questions:
>In using the Mikuni only will it pump through the electric Facet located
>below? When using the Facet will it pump through the Mikuni if the
>Mikuni fails? In using both pumps for take off and landing like the
>Cherokee's will I overpressure the carbs?
>What concerns me is the length the little Mikuni has to lift the fuel in
>a Kolb. What's the published vertcal limit....somethin' like 11
>inches...?
>I want it dependable but don't want to create any monsters if it isn't
>necessary. I need opinions from you guys who've had experience in this
>area. Help! Thanks guys.
>
>Hillbilly Mike from West Virginia
>FSII, BRS, EIS, 68" Powerfin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "larrybiglar" <larrybiglar(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Webs & Photos. |
A week or 2 ago, I went on aboot taking pictures, and mentioned one of
my favorites, to demonstrate the value of taking multiple shots of the
same thing. You want to vary them, one to the next of course, but take
several. Here's why...............
One day, I was flying west from Port Angeles, over Lake Crescent,
and saw this combination of lighting and mist taking shape. Time was
late afternoon. Took a pic, and turned north. Here's the 1st pic,
looking west toward Neah Bay. Lake Crescent is in the lower part, to
the left of center.
www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/Neah_Bay_Blue.jpg
Then I turned north, toward the Straits of Juan de Fuca, took more pics,
then turned west again, and got the following shot. I think this one is
worth the several other shots that were nice, but............. Also, I
can never go back.........just one chance.
www.flyingpics.homestead.com/files/Neah_2.jpg
http://flyingpics.homestead.com/Neah2.html
For some reason, I can't get #2 to open as a jpg file, and had to use
http. Maybe you'll have better luck. Same pic.
Also, last night, I published "Instrument Panel" under "Building
Vamoose." Promised ya, didn't I ?? Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "INFO" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
____
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
"Reference the dealers, I do not know many dealers that fly a
lot. They spend more time on the telephone than they do in
the air."
Take care,
john h
********* Referencing the above,
Everyone is invited to stop by here at Millertime airport for a ride in the
ol' Stearman, between phone calls!!
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
www.aircrafttechsupport.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Everyone is invited to stop by here at Millertime airport for a ride in the
> ol' Stearman, between phone calls!!
>
> Jim & Dondi Miller
Hi Folks:
Reckon I should have qualified my msg ref nonflying
dealers. I was referring to some of our large Rotax
Distributors, i.e., LEAF, CPS, etc. Tweren't referring to
my good friends from Miller Time. :-)
Save me a place in line for the Stearman ride. Many years
ago, Big Hal Watson gave me my one and only flight in his
Stearman at Quincy, Florida. Hal was big and really fat. I
still don't know how he got his big butt up in the back seat
of the Stearman, but he did. He was like a ballet dancer
flying that old airplane. BTW: Hal is up there at the Big
Airstrip in the Sky. He sold the Stearman before he died.
It is now in Great Britain. Bet the Stearman still has that
Southern accent in England. :-)
Jim and Dondi sent me a Rib Rivet Drilling Jig the other
day. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it is
professionally done. Looks real good. The jig was designed
by my buddy in Tennessee, Steve Green, in the final stages
of building his MK III.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike
I mounted the primer bulb on left side of my seat can be
used as aux fuel pump ,also have EIS with fuel pressure transducer
if low pressure warning light comes on simply maintain pressure
with squeez bulb.
Duane Zollinger FSII 503IVO 170hrs
rittman ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold weather flying |
Saw Charlie Saturday up at Shannon. Had his Chilie Vest on.
Are you going to Sun & Fun this year? Bill Woods said he would let
me know when ya'll figure things out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold weather flying |
>
>
>Saw Charlie Saturday up at Shannon. Had his Chilie Vest on.
>Are you going to Sun & Fun this year? Bill Woods said he would let
>me know when ya'll figure things out.
Sorry guys - wrong address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold weather flying |
Possum and Gang:
Please give us an update on the Chilli Vest. Mine waste
away in the closet waiting for me to complete repairs on
Miss P'fer before warm weather gets here. If I don't get
hot on my repair project, the Chilli Vest will get its test
in the Arctic this summer.
Appreciate any feed back on Chilli Vest performance from you
and your buddies who are chilling out and staying warm this
winter.
Take care,
January 21, 2001 - February 04, 2001
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-cq