Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-da

July 25, 2001 - August 06, 2001



      > Jim G
      
      I knew this guy and he just completed his Singshot this spring, so he is
      a relatively new Kolb pilot. I cannot imagine what might have happened
      other than his engine may have quit (please see my post on emergency
      deadstick landings).
      
      My heart goes out to his family.
      
      Ralph Burlingame
      Original Firestar, w447
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)bpsinet.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 25, 2001
May I make a suggestion? To practice dead-stick landings pull the engine, slowly, back to idle. Do NOT turn off the engine. While engine off and engine at idle are not the exact same thing, they are close enough to practice with. If you turn the engine off and misjudge the distance, and then can't get the engine to start, you may be buying new landing gear, to say the least. Please, leave the engine running. Think to yourself, "Is this a good idea?". Larry Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > > > > > Made it out to the airport last week just in time for a hole in our > > other wise continuing poor weather. The ceiling was down to 1200' and > > there were no breaks in it so three of us had to be happy with trips > around > > the pattern. I was sharing the air with a Champ and a Quicksilver. We > were > > all radio equipped so it was good practice in talking, listening, > > watching and flying. After a few trips around I decided to try a > simulated emergency > > landing. The plan was to pick a spot on the turf, reduce the throttle > to > > 3,000 RPM, pretending that the engine had died and that the spot I > picked was > > the only one available. I was astonished to see how my skill at doing > > this trick had deteriorated. On the first try the wind made my turn to > base > > too late and I had to do some heavy corrections on the final. On the > > second attempt I was ~ 100' beyond my intended touch down spot. I was > > humiliated but enlightened. The learning curve came into play and I > finally > > made an "8" on the third try. The point is that you can get rusty very > > quickly on even these very basic maneuvers. No it ain't "like riding a > bike". > > Approach stalls have killed many aviators and approaches without power > > are a very special case. You can bet I'll be doing more of this and > other > > such drills a little more often. > > > > Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, 447, IVO, ~ 100 > > Hrs. > > Duane and others, > > Now you know why there are so many Kolb pilots that bite the dust without > that kind of practice in a real emergency. Now couple this with some > panic and white knuckles and you have a recipe for disaster. > > Those practice emergency deadstick landings that you did were great, now > you might try them under actual conditions by shutting down completely. > It's still another ball game and after you are successful at doing that, > it will actually be fun. No kidding. > > I suggest you first shut down the engine on final when you know the > runway is made, then work your way out a little further each time at a > higher altitude. Before you know it, you will be a half mile out or more > and having fun being a glider. > > There are so many Kolb pilots in all their years of flying that have > never practiced gliding their Firestars in without power. These are the > guys that will have problems when the real emergency strikes. > > Ralph Burlingame > 14 years in a Firestar > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
> >May I make a suggestion? > >To practice dead-stick landings pull the engine, slowly, back to idle. Do >NOT turn off the engine. While engine off and engine at idle are not the >exact same thing, they are close enough to practice with. If you turn the >engine off and misjudge the distance, and then can't get the engine to >start, you may be buying new landing gear, to say the least. Please, leave >the engine running. Think to yourself, "Is this a good idea?". > > Just be over a big field (grass if you've got one handy) and make sure anyone coming in knows what you're doing before you do it. Helps to have someone on the ground with a radio if you dead stick in from up high. I've cut my engine off at 11,000 ft MSL (10,400 AGL) and had a ball gliding down...and no, it doesn't fly the same at idle. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Just be over a big field (grass if you've got one handy) and make sure anyone coming in knows what you're doing before you do it. Helps to have someone on the ground with a radio if you dead stick in from up high. I've cut my engine off at 11,000 ft MSL (10,400 AGL) and had a ball gliding down...and no, it doesn't fly the same at idle. Shut down at 7000' agl about 8 miles away from field...was gonna restart at the field or 2500', whichever come first. Was right over the field at 2700' and just decided to shoot it, deadstick. Glided the pattern and slipped it hard to spill my extra altitude at the last minute... I'm glad I did it, cause it is NOT the great unknown anymore...if the Rotax ever gets quiet, I'll deal with it and go on. But this is definitely a subject that has 2 sides and I respect the opinions on both... Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)ldl.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: bad news for a Kolb driver enroute to OK...
I first met chuck at the fathers day flyin at stanton this summer, he had mentioned to come down anytime and fly with him. I,am sorry i never got the opportunity. we will truly miss him. my heart also goes out to his loved ones--- Gary r. voigt Excelsior, mn. Jim Gerken wrote: > > I am very sorry to hear about this, and my condolances to any of you who > knew the man... > > http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/1.php > > Jim G > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > May I make a suggestion? > > To practice dead-stick landings pull the engine, slowly, back to > idle. Do NOT turn off the engine. While engine off and engine at idle are > not the exact same thing, they are close enough to practice with. If you > turn the engine off and misjudge the distance, and then can't get the engine > to start, you may be buying new landing gear, to say the least. > Please, leave > the engine running. Think to yourself, "Is this a good idea?". > > > Larry Davis Larry and others, Sure starting out, it's a good idea to bring it back to idle and practice these landings. But after you have the confidence and practice, the actual deadstick landings are necessary because when the real emergency happens, there will be no restarts or pushing the throttle forward to go around. The plane does handle different than at idle and remember we are flying light aircraft not heavy GA planes so deadstick landings are easy IF they are practiced. Like Possum, I have gone out a mile and a half from the field and at 2600' agl, shut it down and glided back for a nice touchdown. This takes practice, but it does make you a much better pilot. In earlier years, deadstick landings were a natural thing and a skill that we don't practice as much today because our engines are more reliable now. I think it's wise to hang on to this skill and use the boy scout motto, "Be Prepared" Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 25, 2001
I also have tried a couple of dead-sticks lateley from 800' & 2200" AGL. My 2 cents is that if you practice them at idle versus prop stopped, I would add at least 5 mph to your approach during the real thing. Not having the prop at idle really makes the flare mushy at normal approach speeds. Also, If you are in a Firestar II with a passenger, I'd plan on adding another 10mph! Kip Laurie Firestar II Atlanta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 07/24/01
Date: Jul 25, 2001
>>Does any body have the vibes with the >>more expensive gearboxes with the rubber dampeners? ? . Or belt drives? >>? Ed in Western NY Ed, Group: I have ran 3 diffrent engines on my FS (Cuyuna ulII o2 , 2si 460 f-40 with 2.65:1 box, Hirth 2402 with 2.29:1 box) with the same 64" warp 2 blade prop, and I believe most of my vibration is engine related. The Hirth runs with more vibration, but it has more displacement 460cc. vs. 521cc. Has anyone had any experience with the dynamic balancers that bolt to the flywheel? Do they work? Darren Smalec, FS1, Central MI. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: Bob Singer <hp2693(at)cmuonline.net>
Subject: WalMart wires
Ed. I have looked at the WalMart "aircraft approaved" cable also but all of the ones I saw, including the ones at the local farm store that said "aircraft approaved" were galvanized steel. Every aircraft I have owned had stainless steel cables. I would not use galvanized steel cables in anything I am sitting in above the ground and our local AI agrees. For just a couple of pennies more a foot, you can get stainless steel cable from some of the suppliers like Lockwood or L.E.A.F. and be sure of its reliability and higher strength. Bob I changed and went to the next size larger diameter FAA aircraft approved Wal-Mart cable....No joke,it is aircraft cable from Wal-mart. Ed in Western NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "williams brett" <dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "Larry Davis" <LDAVIS(at)BPSINET.COM> Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com To: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:06:02 -0500 -- Kolb-List message posted by: "Larry Davis" May I make a suggestion? To practice dead-stick landings pull the engine, slowly, back to idle. Do NOT turn off the engine. While engine off and engine at idle are not the exact same thing, they are close enough to practice with. If you turn the engine off and misjudge the distance, and then can't get the engine to start, you may be buying new landing gear, to say the least. Please, leave the engine running. Think to yourself, "Is this a good idea?". My two cents, I'm usually a spectator on the list, however, sometimes I feel compelled to respond. It's never a good idea to shut down a good engine inflight, especially if you only have one(all kolbs that I know of). A windmilling propeller actually causes more drag than a stationary propeller, so you are going to be pretty close to the deadstick performance or worse with the engine idling. I don't know of any flight instructor that would suggest you do a dead stick landing for practice. I've heard some of the guys at the local airport say some of the same things that I just read on the list. I fly a large multi-engine military propeller driven aircraft and when we simulate an engine out we actually have higher Vmc speeds due to the excess drag from a windmilling propeller. I believe that you are creating an undo risk versus any benefits gained by doing actual engine-outs in Kolb type aircraft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com> > I believe that you are creating an undo risk versus any benefits gained by doing actual > engine-outs in Kolb type aircraft. Hey Brett, A light Firestar is nothing to compare with a big airplane and shutting down the engine is not risky business IF you have a safe place to put it down. Glider pilots make every landing deadstick, so why do ultralight pilots have such a difficult time accepting this as a normal part of their training? I believe it's because we are not used to shutting down a perfectly good running engine. It almost seems absurd to do this, but what will you do when that perfectly good running engine goes silent? Will you have the necessary skills to save your bacon? Maybe not if you haven't practiced for it. Most airplanes can glide, it's up to the pilot to make it glide down to a safe landing and not fall down and hurt yourself. Am I preaching to the choir? It's easier if it's practiced, a real headache if you haven't. What are you going to do? Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: "BJ Moore" <BJMoore(at)c4farms.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Here's my $.02 on this subject. My instructor forced me to do several engine on idle landings when I was learning. Definitely important to keept the engine running during training. Although its not technically "dead stick", but its the closest, safest thing you can do to practice this. And as we read today, we do need practice at this. Fortunately, I takeoff from an area that has a large dry lake bed 20 miles away that is prime for actual "dead stick" landings. I love that place. The lake bed is like having a landing strip that is infinitely wide. When I know I will be flying over it, I climb to 10k then shut it down all the way. Gliding down 5000 feet with no power is UL flying at its best. Then after the ititial landing. I mark out a "mock" landing strip with my tire tracks, and to 3 or 4 dead stick landings, trying to nail the numbers. I never have nailed them. Usually end up slipping and then having too much airspeed to put it down on the numbers. One thing to be aware of, also, when dead sticking a taildragger, is that you will loose control on rollout, when the plane gets to somewhere around 20 mph on the ground. Landing into the wind will help this, but your real emergency landing on a dirt road, or wherever selected will not likely be pointed into the wind. B.J. Moore, P.E. Circle Four Farms Development Engineer ASC Basic Flight Instructor - "The Flyin Moose". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Mk-3 Verner install photos
Hi gang, I put up a primitive page with some pix of the Verner installation. There a few minor glitches to be worked out such as determining the "proper" location for the oil tank. However, it is coming along. VernerMk-3 Bill George Mk-3 - Verner 1400 - Powerfin 72 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Firefly Starting Problem
Replacing something that worked over time always scares me because I got something I developed confidence in and am replacing it with a total unknown that may not last two flights. There are things that wear, get abused, kicked, what ever, that need to be replaced. Switches though seem to run in batches, good or bad. Which lot does the replacement fall in? > >I performed my very first unplanned deadstick landing due to a shorted >on/off switch. I was about 500 ft agl over a very healthy cotton field >when a smooth running engine spun down to silence. It wasn't in my Kolb >with the cheap and simple toggle switch, but it happened in a Quick with >one of the $80 three position switches. It was something that you couldn't >exactly check for in preflight. Never one hint to the pending failure. >Might be a good idea to replace it every 100hrs or so. >Bob > > > > >Kolbers, > >Wanted to share today's experience with the engine refusing to fire. Don't > >want to bore you with the troubleshooting details but the problem turned > out > >to be a defective on/off switch. Finally cut the wire and the engine > >started. Sure was surprised that this was the problem. > >Gene Ledbetter > >Cincinnati, OH > >Firefly 00-2-00018, both canopies, big wheels and brakes, Ivo 2 blade > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: bad news for a Kolb driver enroute to OK...
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Mr Veith has been a regular on the Kolb list since I first got on it back in '98... I recall seeing his posts and comments from time to time...he was one of us... I am saddened with his passing... We have all lost in this... Beauford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: bad news for a Kolb driver enroute to OK... > > I first met chuck at the fathers day flyin at stanton this summer, he > had mentioned to come down anytime and fly with him. I,am sorry i never got > the opportunity. we will truly miss him. my heart also goes out to his loved > ones--- > > Gary r. voigt > Excelsior, mn. > > Jim Gerken wrote: > > > > > I am very sorry to hear about this, and my condolances to any of you who > > knew the man... > > > >
http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/1.php > > > > Jim G > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Lexan too
Try using acetone on two scrap pieces to test it. You can by it by the quart in paint section or hardware store. It should bond it together real nice. > >In a message dated 7/19/01 2:56:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >biglar(at)gogittum.com writes: > > > > Did anything ever come of this ?? Sure would be nice to know how to glue > > that stuff. Lar. > > > > > >Lar, I sent the following info to William Herren: > > WELD-ON > 3 > > IPS Corp. > P. O. Box 379 > 17109 S. Main St. > Gardena, CA 90248 > >Sorry, no web site or phone # on the can. > >My friend, Chuck, says the stuff makes a very strong joint. It's thin and >should be applied with a syringe. > >Howard Shackleford >FS I >SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Mk-3 Verner install photos
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Couldn't open it, Bill. It said, "Sorry, can't find that page." Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <WGeorge737(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mk-3 Verner install photos > > Hi gang, > > I put up a primitive page with some pix of the Verner installation. There a > few minor glitches to be worked out such as determining the "proper" location > for the oil tank. However, it is coming along. > > VernerMk-3 > > > Bill George > Mk-3 - Verner 1400 - Powerfin 72 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "richard swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: WalMart wires
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Bob & all, I too thought stainless was better, but I found out that stainless is much more brittle & it will fray around pulleys quicker. Unless you are flying out of salt water, steel cable is a better choice for our application, especially the UltraStar which has several sharp bends around small pulleys. ...Richard Swiderski - Original Message ----- From: "Bob Singer" <hp2693(at)cmuonline.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: Kolb-List: WalMart wires > > Ed. I have looked at the WalMart "aircraft approaved" cable also but > all of the ones I saw, including the ones at the local farm store that > said "aircraft approaved" were galvanized steel. Every aircraft I have > owned had stainless steel cables. I would not use galvanized steel > cables in anything I am sitting in above the ground and our local AI > agrees. For just a couple of pennies more a foot, you can get > stainless steel cable from some of the suppliers like Lockwood or > L.E.A.F. and be sure of its reliability and higher strength. Bob > > I changed and went to the next size larger diameter FAA > aircraft approved Wal-Mart cable....No joke,it is aircraft cable from > Wal-mart. Ed in Western NY > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: A22 vs A23
Ron, I have a ICOM A22 - It works find no problem with LCD - If your shopping I would suggest you check two places. I got mine from Hart Aviation (look it up on Google). I also done business in the pass with Gulf Coast Avionics used to be in Tampa. The thing about the A22 is your can disconnect the battery and it only about 4-5" high. Warning about Delcoms, I understand you have to use there special head set adapter. Verify everything I say before you spend you money. I have a King KX100, I like it the best but its to big for the UL and only supports an external tickle charge. You can't run it without the battery and the battery can run down faster than it charges if theres much traffic on the air. The A22 when I got mine came with head set adapter. It plugs into the top of the radio. You could panel mount the head and make up a harness with panel jacks. Don't forget a push to talk button. You could wire that into your stick and it connects to a pair of the contacts on the mike jack. The head set adapter that comes with the radio provides normal size mike and earphone jack to mate with a headset. It also has a miniature jack to connect an external push to talk switch. I used the headset adapter in both our Kolb and our Hawk. There is another choice out there called Yaesu. Its a new radio on the market and like ICOM they've been building hand helds for amateur radio use for years. Here's a little important thing, if your thinking about using the push to talk on the side of the radio along with a headset, be aware that on some (Yaesu) while it will key the transmitter, it opens the mikes on both the radio and the headset which degrades the quality of the audio due to additional background noise it picks up. If you settled on the Delcom you should be able to buy a used one on good shape and save some bucks. Many buy that radio and then want to sell it and get another due to the head set adapter issue. I agree with the tray feature it makes it nice and it may work well for your application. If you need batteries might I suggest you check out Batteries America. They sell new batteries and also chargers.
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/ http://www.hartaviation.com/ http://www.gulf-coast-avionics.com/ jerryb > >Beginning to look like Icom is the only game in town. I don't like >LCD's in bright sun light but I may be old fashioned. Could anyone give >me the pro's and con's of the IC-A23 Vs the IC-A22. The 23 is only >about $40.00 more than the 22. I have heard some rumors that the 23 is >having a few problems. Any one know anything about this? If I go with >just a com unit, the A-5 has been recommended as the way to go by Larry >Davis so I guess that would be my choice unless I go with a nav-com. >Then it is between the 22 and 23. > >Ron Payne > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: repair facility
While I can't comment directly on experience of using there repair facility, I did visit their facility and was given the dollar tour. I found it to be clean and well organized, the staff was very friendly and courteous, and the Rotax repair techs have been available to answer questions when I working out a problem with a new engine that came from my kit manufacturer. Most importantly there staff impressed the most. While at S&F in 97 I talked to Miss. Aircraft who were manning the Rotax booth. I also found them to be very curios and knowledgeable. From business experience I have less confidence in Leading Edge or CPS. Good Luck. jerryb > >Dave, > >I just flew down to Lockwood Aviation in Sebring Fl., not sure where >you are, but was 154 miles from me. They are good workers, and very >knowledgeable. Phil Lockwood has 18 years in that business and really >easy to work with. Although a complete rebuild sounds like a lot to >us, to them it is routine. If you were in the mood to fly down there >they can slip you in their big hangar and do it all in one day. Or, I >guess two days with travel. I just got a top end job, and did the >piston run-in work there in the air around them before I left. I >helped Shane while he was going between jobs (since they didn't plan on >more than 2 hours for me) so got a lot of hands on work myself. My pal >they call the "G-man" works there, and he can help drive you to the >motel nearby if you stay there ($75/night for Lockwood customers, 2 >nights for $99). > >Other u/l guys just pull the engine from the plane and drive it there >in their trunk. That will also only take a day. The service shop time >costs $65 / hour. Call them at 863-655-5100 to talk to Phil or the >girls and schedule shop time. > >Write or call me for more talk. 386-937-0541 > > >===== >John & Lynn Richmond :-) >Palm Coast, Fl. >Mk3 269LJ, 582, 28 hrs >958 miles, longest=171 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 25, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: synthetic oils
This is an interesting post. We have two UL's, one a Kolb FireFly and the other a CGS Hawk. Both have Rotax 477 engine, the Kolb a 66" 2-blade IVO and the Hawk a 64" IVO. They produce completely different characteristics. The Kolb EGT's want to shoot up during descent and gets lower fuel consumption than the Hawk. The Hawk EGT's hold pretty well normal regardless of decent or cruise but appears to have a little high fuel consumption per hour. Both engines carbs are jetted the same. jerryb > >I totally disagree. You want the engine running a little cooler at full >throttle, >and a little warmer at cruise. The cooler temps at full throttle enhance >reliability. The hotter temps at cruise keep the formation of ring mung and >carbon at a minimum, and improve fuel consumption. > >Setzer's temps are about ideal for safe operation. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > > > >Dale Seitzer 447 wrote: > I see 1000 degrees on takeoff, 1100 on cruise and > >1200 on descents. I do adjust the needle one slot in winter and summer.< > > > >Wow, this is unusual. The typical setup is opposite of this and I believe > >(read believe, not know) it is more important to be at around 1200-1250 > >under full throttle and see things cool off a tad when you get into cruise > >and descent. This means you have your needle and jet needle setup a little > >leaner than the burn at full throttle. Ideally, from 3/4 throttle up you > >would operate between 1150-1250. You could stand to lean out the main jet a > >size and may also have to also richen the needle by lifting it up a notch. > >1250 is actually the sweet spot for the highest temp, full throttle. > Then at > >cruise if you get it between 1150 and 1200, you are set up purrrfectly. But > >then again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is just unusual in my > >experience. > > >B.J. Moore, P.E. > >Circle Four Farms Development Engineer > >"The Flyin Moose" - Maxair Drifter > >Milford, Utah > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Mk-3 Verner install photos
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Hi All, I had to send Bill's website to myself, then it seemed to work. Here'tis. http://members.aol.com/wgeorge737/VernerUpload/index.html Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk-3 Verner install photos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "richard swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 17, 2001
Larry & All, Depending on an idling engine to get you out of trouble at the last minurte while practicing "dead sticks" just might get you into more trouble. Everything is happening pretty fast & having a cold engine sputter while you are depending on it to get out of a fix is a formula for some serious trouble. The trick is to only practice just at the edge of the envelope you are comforatable in. Eg., cut the engine when you are on a long runway & only a few feet off the ground & all dialed in. Then when you are bored with that, cut it off a little bit higher untill you are at a thousand feet. Then when you are bored with that, cut it off with one 90 degree turn, & then a 180 & so on. The biggest thing is to memorize the glide angle & then it will not matter how high you are, you will always know about where you will touch down (assuming no severe wind conditions.) Always use the same airspeed. I like about 10mph above stall. If the winds are high, use a steeper glide path & more speed, insuring you have more altittude than you need on finial. Then as needed on finial, lose alttitude by doing as many S-turns as needed &/or some slipping. If you have lots of runway, then come in real hot & fly it into the ground & after contact use forward stick to glue her down so a gust won't surprise you. Develope a routine & stick to it strickly- keep all your variables constant & always aim for a particular spot & then hone your skills untill you can hit it every time. If you stay in your comfort zone, carry extra speed & alttitude with more runway than you need, you will not get into any serious trouble. Your skill level will improve dramaticlly & you will greatly improve your odds when (not if) your 2-stroke goes silent & you have to put it into a tight field with the wind blowing. Instead of fighting panic, you will be making calm decisions & flying your plane like you've done many times before. Besides, if dead sticking isn't the purest form of flying, its at least the purely funnest form of flying. ...Richard Swiderski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)bpsinet.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > > May I make a suggestion? > > To practice dead-stick landings pull the engine, slowly, back to idle. Do > NOT turn off the engine. While engine off and engine at idle are not the > exact same thing, they are close enough to practice with. If you turn the > engine off and misjudge the distance, and then can't get the engine to > start, you may be buying new landing gear, to say the least. Please, leave > the engine running. Think to yourself, "Is this a good idea?". > > > Larry Davis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:40 AM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > > > > > > > > > > Made it out to the airport last week just in time for a hole in our > > > other wise continuing poor weather. The ceiling was down to 1200' and > > > there were no breaks in it so three of us had to be happy with trips > > around > > > the pattern. I was sharing the air with a Champ and a Quicksilver. We > > were > > > all radio equipped so it was good practice in talking, listening, > > > watching and flying. After a few trips around I decided to try a > > simulated emergency > > > landing. The plan was to pick a spot on the turf, reduce the throttle > > to > > > 3,000 RPM, pretending that the engine had died and that the spot I > > picked was > > > the only one available. I was astonished to see how my skill at doing > > > this trick had deteriorated. On the first try the wind made my turn to > > base > > > too late and I had to do some heavy corrections on the final. On the > > > second attempt I was ~ 100' beyond my intended touch down spot. I was > > > humiliated but enlightened. The learning curve came into play and I > > finally > > > made an "8" on the third try. The point is that you can get rusty very > > > quickly on even these very basic maneuvers. No it ain't "like riding a > > bike". > > > Approach stalls have killed many aviators and approaches without power > > > are a very special case. You can bet I'll be doing more of this and > > other > > > such drills a little more often. > > > > > > Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, 447, IVO, ~ 100 > > > Hrs. > > > > Duane and others, > > > > Now you know why there are so many Kolb pilots that bite the dust without > > that kind of practice in a real emergency. Now couple this with some > > panic and white knuckles and you have a recipe for disaster. > > > > Those practice emergency deadstick landings that you did were great, now > > you might try them under actual conditions by shutting down completely. > > It's still another ball game and after you are successful at doing that, > > it will actually be fun. No kidding. > > > > I suggest you first shut down the engine on final when you know the > > runway is made, then work your way out a little further each time at a > > higher altitude. Before you know it, you will be a half mile out or more > > and having fun being a glider. > > > > There are so many Kolb pilots in all their years of flying that have > > never practiced gliding their Firestars in without power. These are the > > guys that will have problems when the real emergency strikes. > > > > Ralph Burlingame > > 14 years in a Firestar > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Mk-3 Verner install photos
Date: Jul 25, 2001
Well, you a perty sharp feller, Ed, no matter what they say. Opening your version worked, so I got to enjoy them, too. Couple of things: That's a very nice installation, and I sure wish mine was that far along. Beautiful pictures, too. What kind of camera did you use to take them ?? Have you done a w&b yet ?? I'd be interested in knowing how it came out. Thanks Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mk-3 Verner install photos > > Hi All, > I had to send Bill's website to myself, then it seemed to work. > Here'tis. > > http://members.aol.com/wgeorge737/VernerUpload/index.html > > Ed in JXN > MkII/503 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> > To: Ed Chmielewski > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mk-3 Verner install photos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Berry" <sc_bassman(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
Date: Jul 26, 2001
I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy ... for the pilot and family ... and makes me contemplate my own potential fate. I just looked up the places involved on my MS Expedia. Appears that he had made roughly 112 miles with about 158 miles to go ... not quite half way. Appears that there were no major towns or cities (or airports?) on his flight path from St. Peter to Minnesota City. Wonder how much fuel he had on board .... whether he had a headwind ... and what type engine? What flying experience did he have overall? In the interest of safety for us all, I'd be interested in hearing the cause and circumstances ... once determined. Randy Berry Kolb Firestar KXP sn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "williams brett" <dbwilliams52(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 26, 2001
>From: "richard swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:46:42 -0400 > > > >Larry & All, > > Depending on an idling engine to get you out of trouble at the last >minurte while practicing "dead sticks" just might get you into more >trouble. >Everything is happening pretty fast & having a cold engine sputter while >you >are depending on it to get out of a fix is a formula for some serious >trouble. > The trick is to only practice just at the edge of the envelope you are >comforatable > All, I've had the 447 quit because I let the engine get too cold after a long idle descent, my learning curve was increased by leaps and bounds. I always watch the egt on descents and I increase rpm if I feel the temperature is getting to low and get the egt back up, however, in the landing pattern I have never had a problem with low egt going to idle in the landing pattern from rolling off the perch until touchdown. You are not depending on an idling engine because you should always have the field made anywhere in the landing pattern, so why cut the engine off? What if a car, cow, deer, other aircraft, bad approach and a thousand other things occur during your intentional deadstick. Yes, now you are out of options, you are a glider, weigh the risks versus benefits. I do this in military flying every day. My firefly glides like a brick, it's not made to be a glider, if you are flying a proper pattern you will have the field made if it quits, this is good airmanship. I always make my landings in the kolb at idle, so I'm always practicing with no power, again an idling propeller is producing more drag in-flight because the propeller is attempting to drive the engine so the performance in-flight is nearly the same as if the propeller was stopped. You should not shut down the engine intentionally on a single engine aircraft unless it's doing something bad to you (ie. it's on fire, severe vibration, and probably many more reasons). If you fly airmachines long enough Murphy's law will catch you, but always keep the odds and options in your favor and you might come out on top. I fly my Firefly agressively but always within my and the aircraft's limitations. It's the funnest aircraft I've had the priviledge of owning and flying, it's an aircraft and the same airmanship skills that you learn as a pilot apply to it the same as any other aircraft. Keep it running. Brett > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: engine shutdown
Date: Jul 26, 2001
The topic of shutting down a running engine to "simulate" an emergency is definately not the thing to do.......in a GA airplane ! BUT....we are not flying GA airplanes. From my own viewpoint with limited experience in ultralights I am listening very closely to the old "salts"on this list. My total flight time is considerable and I like to think my best skill is in careful listening .......others who have flown my Ultrastar agree that this type of flying is different......more fun ,too! I have been thinking about shutting down the Cayuna for a simulation , because flying this engine, I may need the practice for the real thing. In all fairness to the Cayuna, it has done very well , even when it was running hot......I may get the courage to shut it down , but not at 10,000 and four miles out....Easy stages ,first. More like at the runway threshold at 50 feet as per advice........Ed ...Western NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Subject: Ivo Prop
Date: Jul 26, 2001
The fine folks on this list have offered advice on how to repair a ding in a wooden prop. How about a ding in an Ivo prop? Dwight Kottke Firestar 377 The Flying Farmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard Ping" <howard.ping(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ivo Prop
Date: Jul 26, 2001
I use J B weld. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kottke, Dwight <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Ivo Prop > > The fine folks on this list have offered advice on how to repair a ding in > a wooden prop. How about a ding in an Ivo prop? > > Dwight Kottke Firestar 377 > The Flying Farmer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Deadstickig is dead...
Date: Jul 26, 2001
In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's drop the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a personal decision how to do your training... Next issue.... global warming? What say? Jeremy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > It's the funnest aircraft I've had the priviledge of > owning and flying, it's an aircraft and the same airmanship skills that you > learn as a pilot apply to it the same as any other aircraft. Keep it > running. > Brett Hey Brett, I thought that was very good advice and we should stay well within our limits of experience and not stretch too far out, otherwise the "real emergency" could take over. I will keep this in mind myself because one of the quotes I live by goes something like this: "When a pilot thinks he knows everything, the end is not far away" Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > > I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy ... for the pilot and family > and makes me contemplate my own potential fate. I just looked up the > places involved on my MS Expedia. Appears that he had made roughly 112 > miles with about 158 miles to go ... not quite half way. Appears that > there were no major towns or cities (or airports?) on his flight path from > St. Peter to Minnesota City. Wonder how much fuel he had on board .... > whether he had a headwind ... and what type engine? What flying experience > did he have overall? In the interest of safety for us all, I'd be > interested in hearing the cause and circumstances ... once determined. > > Randy Berry > Kolb Firestar KXP > sn.com Randy and others, I can answer some of these questions about Chuck Veith's Slingshot. I met Chuck last fall at the Faribault fly-in and he was very interested in my Firestar and told me he was building a Slingshot and was close to finishing it up. The Slingshot had a 582 (blue head I think) with no modifications except the IVO prop. Chuck told me TNK didn't seem to know what size prop to use on it so they sent him a 72" IVO prop. He had two 5-gallon fuel tanks with a fuel line connecting them on the bottom. He would fill one and it took 5 or more minutes or more for the fuel to transfer to the other tank. At the Fathers Day fly-in at Stanton MN, he started the engine and the prop would flex enough to strike the rear part of the cage while at idle. This had happened several times and I told Chuck that he should either send the prop back for a 66" or cut it down. There was no prop hub extension and he was considering that. I saw him again at the Glencoe fly-in about a month later and he cut away the damaged fabric on lower rear cage where the prop had struck. He did not modify the prop and it still was 72". I believe he thought it would be ok to leave it at that length. He is a new pilot and I'm not sure if he had flown anything else prior to his Slingshot and I suspect he had no more than 50 hours in the plane. I can contact Dale Seitzer (also on the list and presently at Oshkosh) for this information because he was a personal friend of Chuck. When the crash happened on Tuesday, I looked at the radar after my flight that morning, and saw rain in the southern part of the state where he was flying. Since then I've been thinking about the following scenario: He may have taken off in light drizzle with visibility no more than 5 miles thinking he was heading east toward Oshkosh and would be out of it soon. After flying for a little more than an hour, he may have been flying lower and lower so he could maintain visibility with the ground. The air cleaner may have been getting saturated with water and began affecting the engine. He was getting very close to the end of his first leg at the Winona airport and may have thought he could nurse it there. I suspect that when he knew he wasn't going to make it, he looked for a field to put it down in. By that time he was probably very low at about 300'. When the engine quit, he may have broken the cardinal rule by trying a restart (with a pull start in the cockpit) and not flying the plane. Again this is pure speculation, but knowing he was a very low-time pilot, there is a great tendency to do this. By trying a restart, he was distracted and did not see the stall until it was too late. The plane stalled and he spun in. My question to the list is this: Has anyone flown a 582 in heavy rain and had it affect the engine? I have flown my 447 in light rains and not affected the engine, but I wonder about the effects of heavy rain. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: engine shutdown
I think shutting the engine down at 50' up on short final might not be the best place to begin orientation to an unpowered airplane. I have been thinking about this thread a lot, and I would probably shut down on a close downwind to a big grass strip for my first introduction to engine out. That way I would have at least a little time to get my head regeared. Since I have electric start, I have shut down before at altitude and then restarted after gliding for a bit, and the airplane is different (and incredibly pleasant) with the engine off. But I wouldn't deliberately shut off for the first time at 50' on a short final. But who knows? Maybe that would be the best place to try it? Let us know how it works out. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >The topic of shutting down a running engine to "simulate" an emergency >is definately not the thing to do.......in a GA airplane ! BUT....we are >not flying GA airplanes. From my own viewpoint with limited experience >in ultralights I am listening very closely to the old "salts"on this >list. My total flight time is considerable and I like to think my best >skill is in careful listening .......others who have flown my Ultrastar >agree that this type of flying is different......more fun ,too! I have >been thinking about shutting down the Cayuna for a simulation , because >flying this engine, I may need the practice for the real thing. In all >fairness to the Cayuna, it has done very well , even when it was running >hot......I may get the courage to shut it down , but not at 10,000 and >four miles out....Easy stages ,first. More like at the runway threshold >at 50 feet as per advice........Ed ...Western NY > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Ivo Prop
If it's small enough, fill it with baking soda, and drop superglue on it. Sand it smooth and paint it. Workmanship is important, don't cut into any underlying material. If it's a big ding, get several old and unbiased fellow pilots to look at it and tell you whether or not to buy a new prop blade. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > The fine folks on this list have offered advice on how to repair a ding in >a wooden prop. How about a ding in an Ivo prop? > >Dwight Kottke Firestar 377 >The Flying Farmer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: engine shutdown
>I may get the courage to shut it down , but not at 10,000 and >four miles out....Easy stages ,first. More like at the runway threshold >at 50 feet as per advice........Ed ...Western NY I used to do it when I knew I had the airstrip made. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Herb here I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to global warming. I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out since flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No panic there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on me!! Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very steeply. Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I like my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in Ky Jeremy Casey wrote: > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's drop > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > personal decision how to do your training... > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > Jeremy > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Herb, Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is trouble for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! Classic no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of accidents bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no old bold pilots" Gary Souderton,Pa. >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > >Herb here > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to >global >warming. > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out >since >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No panic >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on me!! > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very >steeply. >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I >like >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in >Ky > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's >drop > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > Jeremy > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: engine shutdown
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Guys!!! Shutting the power off on a powered plane while still in the air is definitely against FAA procedures. You will not find that in any "Practical Test Standards" publication. I have a story about one of my students years ago who was a glider instructor but had a little powered AP that he flew back and forth the the field we worked at. Pulled the power on downwind. Landed just a little short. Major hospital stay and totaled AP. But then on the other hand, whatever grabs ya!! Robert Kearbey CFII 1582106 KolbIII -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: engine shutdown I think shutting the engine down at 50' up on short final might not be the best place to begin orientation to an unpowered airplane. I have been thinking about this thread a lot, and I would probably shut down on a close downwind to a big grass strip for my first introduction to engine out. That way I would have at least a little time to get my head regeared. Since I have electric start, I have shut down before at altitude and then restarted after gliding for a bit, and the airplane is different (and incredibly pleasant) with the engine off. But I wouldn't deliberately shut off for the first time at 50' on a short final. But who knows? Maybe that would be the best place to try it? Let us know how it works out. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >The topic of shutting down a running engine to "simulate" an emergency >is definately not the thing to do.......in a GA airplane ! BUT....we are >not flying GA airplanes. From my own viewpoint with limited experience >in ultralights I am listening very closely to the old "salts"on this >list. My total flight time is considerable and I like to think my best >skill is in careful listening .......others who have flown my Ultrastar >agree that this type of flying is different......more fun ,too! I have >been thinking about shutting down the Cayuna for a simulation , because >flying this engine, I may need the practice for the real thing. In all >fairness to the Cayuna, it has done very well , even when it was running >hot......I may get the courage to shut it down , but not at 10,000 and >four miles out....Easy stages ,first. More like at the runway threshold >at 50 feet as per advice........Ed ...Western NY > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Deadstickig is dead...
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Ok. I agree! wish I hadn't brought it up again! Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Casey Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's drop the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a personal decision how to do your training... Next issue.... global warming? What say? Jeremy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ALLENB007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
I don't think it's fair or responsible to speculate, totally guess at what happened to this unfortunate person. The only one that knows is that person himself and he's not around to enlighten us about it. Posts like this remind me of the media--"may have" or "could be" reports are nothing more than total speculation. Let's quit trying to crawl into the mind of the pilot while not being there. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: back from Osh
I got back from Osh Kosh this morning at 4 am. We have to time it like that to miss Chicago rush hour traffic. I was at the Kolb tent at noon on Tuesday but I could not identify anyone from the group there, We have to work out some way to tell who is in the group or not. The company does not seem to know anything about us. I was able to go for a ride in the extra. What a nice plane. Norm was piloting and we went once around the circuit. I stepped out of the extra and went right into a kit fox. The extra is a lot more comfortable and seemed to ride smoother. You have to be real good friends to fly together in a kitfox. Saw a great looking engine in the main convention grounds. A 2 cycle engine 92 hp designed to fit on a 582 engine mount. They claim 1000 hr tbo. The strange part is they say it gives a 2 gph burn rate. I have a hard time with that part. Fortunately the importer is in Montreal and I will be white water rafting near there in a couple weeks so I will go and verify it myself. total price was 4700 plus 200 for the radiator. None of this nickle and diming rotax method. I just found out the base price of a rotax does not include the exhaust or even more chincy the exhaust manifold. Easy to lowball a price if you charge for the neccessary parts. I would recomend to anyone to go to Osh for the first few days and miss the big crowds that will probably be there on the weekend. It's hard to talk to anyone with 20 people ahead of you waitng to ask questions also. Saw Jim Miller there but he was busy talking to potential customers so I did not disturb him just to say hey. Anyone else going please try to find the engine display. It is near building B (I think) right around the corner from a yellow banner advertising a hydrogen fuel cell and electric powered airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: For Sale
Date: Jul 26, 2001
I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. Specs: 582 engine Ivo 3 blade elctric prop Electronic information system Intercom Flip Flop Com Radio Srobe lite Navigation lites Matco hydraulic breaks Winter enclosure kit. Seat upholstery kit Complete electrical system and electric start. Exhaust cabin heat Always been hangered! See attached pictures Still trying to decide what it is worth! But believe that I should ask at least 16,000.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Williamson" <jawmson(at)dellepro.com>
Subject: Oshkosh 2001
Date: Jul 26, 2001
I just returned from my first trip to Oshkosh this morning. Kolb Aircraft and Litespeed Aviation had a great display. Airplanes looked real good in the pattern. Ordered my Kolbra on Tuesday. Links to Airventure 2001 pictures I took: http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/AV2001.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbFF.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbFS.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbMKIIIXtra.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra1.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra2.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbraCockpit.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/VisitorMKIII.jpg John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra on order. jawmson(at)dellepro.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: IVO Props
Date: Jul 26, 2001
I have been thinking about Will Uribe's problem with the leading edge tape on this prop. I have one here for my FireStar that I have not put together as yet. I e-mailed IVO today and asked if they had any problems with their props. They said that they had received a batch of leading edge tapes with poor glue and if one was to come loose, it would set up a serious vibration. I went out and checked my blades and sure enough, the tapes are coming loose with them just setting on my work bench. I called IVO and they are sending me a new set of tapes with the proper glue for me to install. I now feel that this is just a one off problem and not a design problem. Anyone with this prop should check the leading edge tapes to see if they are lifting around the edge. Ron Payne Gilbertsville, Ky. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: engine shutdown
I come from the GA side of things. Two things makes me shiver each time I read them on the group. Crow hopping and this so called dead stick landing practice. Both are bold activities. There's old saying that goes "there are bold pilots and there are old pilots but there aren't any old, bold pilots." My flight instructor told his students that when I started taking leans. Its worked well for me for over 30 years. These things are not video games. If you screw up your going to hurt yourself and/or your pocket book. A good analogy would be why don't parachutist practice jumps using there reserve ( A few have and are the bold exceptions.) Things to practice - - emergency procedures - have you really done that - practice on the ground first. - learn to clear the engine when practicing simulated emergency landings, they been know to spit sputter and quit if you don't clear them while gliding. - telling wind direction. - judge wind and drift - this is a major item most blow. - be altitude aware - how much altitude above the ground do you have - know you plane and how much it looses in a turn - picking the field - judging the terrain - with furrows v/s cross furrows don't get caught in having to try to stretch your glide, you can't, live today fly again tomorrow - the plane is expendable, better to break it under control than to splot trying to extend your glide to reach a field that you picked to far away. - how to spiral (corkscrew) down over a field and break out at the right alitude on final. - how to judge altitude loss and compensate for wind direction and strength. - how to adjust your pattern to make the field. - proper altitude loosing techniques. (flaps, slips). - last of all fly the airplane first, then communicate. - quickly analyze cause and determine if a restart is possible. - close the throttle - rationale, in most UL's due to drag, you have to drop the nose considerably to maintain airspeed, should the engine restart on a high thrust line pusher, it rapidly pushes the nose down, if your near the ground you may not have time to recover, I heard of this happening more than once on Kolbs. This all can do done with the engine running. Not that when the engine quits, on most UL due to the drag you have to lower the nose quite a bit which comes the saying "look between your legs and you'll see when your going to land." The high drag and light weight of UL's doesn't provide much penetration against wind thus wind greatly impacts glide distance so recognizing the wind direction and strength is very important in setting up for a power off landing. > >I think shutting the engine down at 50' up on short final might not >be the best place to begin orientation to an unpowered airplane. >I have been thinking about this thread a lot, and I would probably >shut down on a close downwind to a big grass strip for my first >introduction to engine out. That way I would have at least a little >time to get my head regeared. Since I have electric start, I have >shut down before at altitude and then restarted after gliding for >a bit, and the airplane is different (and incredibly pleasant) with >the engine off. But I wouldn't deliberately shut off for the first time >at 50' on a short final. >But who knows? Maybe that would be the best place to try it? >Let us know how it works out. >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > > >The topic of shutting down a running engine to "simulate" an emergency > >is definately not the thing to do.......in a GA airplane ! BUT....we are > >not flying GA airplanes. From my own viewpoint with limited experience > >in ultralights I am listening very closely to the old "salts"on this > >list. My total flight time is considerable and I like to think my best > >skill is in careful listening .......others who have flown my Ultrastar > >agree that this type of flying is different......more fun ,too! I have > >been thinking about shutting down the Cayuna for a simulation , because > >flying this engine, I may need the practice for the real thing. In all > >fairness to the Cayuna, it has done very well , even when it was running > >hot......I may get the courage to shut it down , but not at 10,000 and > >four miles out....Easy stages ,first. More like at the runway threshold > >at 50 feet as per advice........Ed ...Western NY > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: IVO Props
Date: Jul 26, 2001
This is one of those technical sounding aerodynamics questions that I kinda hope the resident aerodynamics guy will take (Topher, you out there?) Regarding these Ivo props with leading edge tapes...they are just stuck on top of the actual airfoil surface, NOT inlaid like on a Warp drive prop. Considering that a prop is just an airfoil "flying" in a circle and that due to the chord of the airfoil being so short(thus making the Reynolds number of the airfoil so low) wouldn't that make the airfoil susceptible to surface imperfections, like say for instance a thick (relatively speaking)piece of stainless steel tape that is just bonded on top of the surface, leaving a big (relatively speaking) hump at about 30% chord of the airfoil? Seems that would make a prop alot less efficient? Topher, what think??? Jeremy "tapeless IVO prop" Casey jrcasey(at)ldl.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron or Mary Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Kolb-List: IVO Props I have been thinking about Will Uribe's problem with the leading edge tape on this prop. I have one here for my FireStar that I have not put together as yet. I e-mailed IVO today and asked if they had any problems with their props. They said that they had received a batch of leading edge tapes with poor glue and if one was to come loose, it would set up a serious vibration. I went out and checked my blades and sure enough, the tapes are coming loose with them just setting on my work bench. I called IVO and they are sending me a new set of tapes with the proper glue for me to install. I now feel that this is just a one off problem and not a design problem. Anyone with this prop should check the leading edge tapes to see if they are lifting around the edge. Ron Payne Gilbertsville, Ky. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Williamson" <jawmson(at)dellepro.com>
Subject: Oshkosh Pictures
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Sorry the links to my pictures would not work. Have added them to the first page on my website. http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/ John Williamson Arlington, TX jawmson(at)dellepro.com Kolbra on order. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Berry" <sc_bassman(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Thanks Ralph for that information. As a fellow Kolb driver, I'd be interested in any further updates. Perhaps we can learn from this terrible tragedy. Thanks. Randy and others, I can answer some of these questions about Chuck Veith's Slingshot.Get mo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Berry" <sc_bassman(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
Date: Jul 26, 2001
Well ... perhaps you are right about the speculation .... but I DO think we should make every attempt to learn the facts about this tragedy ... not to be critical of anyone, but to possibly avoid the same problems ourselves. That could have been any one of us up there. I think that's what this list is all about .... learning and sharing. ----- Original Message ----- From: ALLENB007(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh I don't think it's fair or responsible to speculate, totally guess at what happened to this unfortunate person. The only one that knows is that person himself and he's not around to enlighten us about itGet more from the Web ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
HI Gary and list I appreciate the advice and info. I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of them are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I weigh 200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. The MkIII is certainly a confidence inspiring plane. Perhaps I have grown too confident and possibly complacent. Herb Gary Thacker wrote: > > Herb, > > Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to > fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at > altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is trouble > for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! Classic > no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of accidents > bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of > speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. > Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This > gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no > old bold pilots" > > Gary > > Souderton,Pa. > > >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> > >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > > > > >Herb here > > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to > >global > >warming. > > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out > >since > >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No panic > >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on me!! > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > >steeply. > >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I > >like > >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in > >Ky > > > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's > >drop > > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: Audrey Lewis <audreylewis(at)planters.net>
Subject: Firestar II Full enclosure
Help! Just purchased a used Firestar II with a summer windshield. I did not get the builders plans with the plane. Would someone on the list email a copy of the full enclosure plans from their plans book. Thanks, Audrey Sylvania, Ga FSII,503,108hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kb8wlu" <kb8wlu(at)tir.com>
Subject: back from Osh
Date: Jul 26, 2001
hey woody sounds like you had a good time. i wish i had of gon but my wife aunt died the day we were going to go sorry next year for sure. but i would like to ride you your plane! -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Woody Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:52 PM Subject: Kolb-List: back from Osh I got back from Osh Kosh this morning at 4 am. We have to time it like that to miss Chicago rush hour traffic. I was at the Kolb tent at noon on Tuesday but I could not identify anyone from the group there, We have to work out some way to tell who is in the group or not. The company does not seem to know anything about us. I was able to go for a ride in the extra. What a nice plane. Norm was piloting and we went once around the circuit. I stepped out of the extra and went right into a kit fox. The extra is a lot more comfortable and seemed to ride smoother. You have to be real good friends to fly together in a kitfox. Saw a great looking engine in the main convention grounds. A 2 cycle engine 92 hp designed to fit on a 582 engine mount. They claim 1000 hr tbo. The strange part is they say it gives a 2 gph burn rate. I have a hard time with that part. Fortunately the importer is in Montreal and I will be white water rafting near there in a couple weeks so I will go and verify it myself. total price was 4700 plus 200 for the radiator. None of this nickle and diming rotax method. I just found out the base price of a rotax does not include the exhaust or even more chincy the exhaust manifold. Easy to lowball a price if you charge for the neccessary parts. I would recomend to anyone to go to Osh for the first few days and miss the big crowds that will probably be there on the weekend. It's hard to talk to anyone with 20 people ahead of you waitng to ask questions also. Saw Jim Miller there but he was busy talking to potential customers so I did not disturb him just to say hey. Anyone else going please try to find the engine display. It is near building B (I think) right around the corner from a yellow banner advertising a hydrogen fuel cell and electric powered airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Crimping
Date: Jul 26, 2001
A week or so ago, I sent a pic of the soldering, and talked about crimping the battery cables. Still having difficulties with gogittum, after 1 success, so finally gave up and published it thru my old Homestead site. I used the cable swaging tool to crimp the #6 connectors onto the #6 battery cables. Did a beautiful job - very solid. Now, as in the pic, I'm going to see if I can get several smaller ones crimped tightly enuf into a #6 connector for my accessory circuits. I'll let you know how it works out. Take a look at: http://www.flyingpics.homestead.com/crimp.html Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 26, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Where's john??
Anyone been to OSK and heard anything of John Hauck? Last word I had he was lvg western MT for ND on Tuesday. TNK site hasn't been updated in many days. Should have been at OSK NLT Thurs. Any word appreciated. Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com>
Subject: Seriously questionable flying
Following from Newspaper: A Eugene man was arrested this morning after his ultralight aircraft crashed while attempting to flee from officers at an Ontario area parking lot. On June 18, 1999, at approximately 8:55 a.m. (MDT), OSP troopers observed an individual land an ultralight aircraft in a parking lot west of Adkin's Market in Ontario. After landing, the operator, identified as MARK ALLEN MITCHELL, age 47, taxied over to a nearby Chevron gas station, filled a gas can and was preparing to take off when he was contacted by officers. OSP contacted the Federal Aviation Administration and was asked to have MITCHELL standby at the scene until investigators could inspect the ultralight. At 9:25 a.m. (MDT), as officers were blocking the parking lot to avoid other traffic from entering the area, MITCHELL attempted to take off in the ultralight by splitting between two commercial trucks parked in the lot. While gaining speed, the left wing clipped the front edge of one of the trucks causing the ultralight to spin around and hit one of the trailers. After the collision, MITCHELL was taken into custody and charged with RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING ANOTHER PERSON (two counts), ATTEMPTING TO ELUDE AN OFFICER IN A VEHICLE, and CRIMINAL MISCHIEF SECOND DEGREE . He was lodged in the Malheur County Jail. The "Thunder Gull" single seat ultralight aircraft, with a 25 foot wingspan, was damaged in the crash. Members of the Oregon State Police Ontario Patrol Office are completing the investigation. Ontario Police Department assisted at the scene. ......I do not support this type of flying, but thought it would be at least interesting to ultralight pilots.. Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Here's another warning for you. We have two guys in a MarkIII buy the farm - cause engine out - the pilot dropped the nose but left the throttle wide open position, the engine restarted and being a pusher with a high thrust line, it pushed the nose down and he didn't have time to recover before impact. We have also lost a number of pilots by making high angle of attack climb outs trying to impress on lookers. In several cases they did. The engine quits and because of there already slow, they don't get the nose down quick enough causing a stall and crash or the same event happens as above. > >HI Gary and list > I appreciate the advice and info. I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my >MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of >them >are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I >weigh >200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. > The MkIII is certainly a confidence inspiring plane. Perhaps I have grown >too confident and possibly complacent. Herb > > >Gary Thacker wrote: > > > > > Herb, > > > > Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to > > fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at > > altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is > trouble > > for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! > Classic > > no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of > accidents > > bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of > > speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. > > Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This > > gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no > > old bold pilots" > > > > Gary > > > > Souderton,Pa. > > > > >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> > > >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > > > > > > > >Herb here > > > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to > > >global > > >warming. > > > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out > > >since > > >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No > panic > > >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on > me!! > > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > > >steeply. > > >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I > > >like > > >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > Herb in > > >Ky > > > > > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's > > >drop > > > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Rain impact on engines
Can vouch for the 2-strokes but I can comment on a GA Citabria that has a air filter on the inlet to the engine carb. I flown it through rain the took paint of the leading edge of our horiz. stab. We talking rain so dense it there cats, dogs, frogs, and fish coming down. The engine never missed a beat on more than one occasion. I hope the two strokes are too sensitive, when it rains here in Texas, it can rain. (Kiss a wood prop good bye) > >writes: > > > > > > I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy ... for the pilot and family > > and makes me contemplate my own potential fate. I just looked up the > > places involved on my MS Expedia. Appears that he had made roughly 112 > > > miles with about 158 miles to go ... not quite half way. Appears that > > there were no major towns or cities (or airports?) on his flight path >from > > St. Peter to Minnesota City. Wonder how much fuel he had on board .... > > > whether he had a headwind ... and what type engine? What flying >experience > > did he have overall? In the interest of safety for us all, I'd be > > interested in hearing the cause and circumstances ... once determined. > > > > Randy Berry > > Kolb Firestar KXP > > sn.com > >Randy and others, > >I can answer some of these questions about Chuck Veith's Slingshot. > >I met Chuck last fall at the Faribault fly-in and he was very interested >in my Firestar and told me he was building a Slingshot and was close to >finishing it up. > >The Slingshot had a 582 (blue head I think) with no modifications except >the IVO prop. Chuck told me TNK didn't seem to know what size prop to >use on it so they sent him a 72" IVO prop. > >He had two 5-gallon fuel tanks with a fuel line connecting them on the >bottom. He would fill one and it took 5 or more minutes or more for the >fuel to transfer to the other tank. > >At the Fathers Day fly-in at Stanton MN, he started the engine and the >prop would flex enough to strike the rear part of the cage while at idle. >This had happened several times and I told Chuck that he should either >send the prop back for a 66" or cut it down. There was no prop hub >extension and he was considering that. > >I saw him again at the Glencoe fly-in about a month later and he cut away >the damaged fabric on lower rear cage where the prop had struck. He did >not modify the prop and it still was 72". I believe he thought it would >be ok to leave it at that length. > >He is a new pilot and I'm not sure if he had flown anything else prior to >his Slingshot and I suspect he had no more than 50 hours in the plane. I >can contact Dale Seitzer (also on the list and presently at Oshkosh) for >this information because he was a personal friend of Chuck. > >When the crash happened on Tuesday, I looked at the radar after my flight >that morning, and saw rain in the southern part of the state where he was >flying. Since then I've been thinking about the following scenario: > >He may have taken off in light drizzle with visibility no more than 5 >miles thinking he was heading east toward Oshkosh and would be out of it >soon. After flying for a little more than an hour, he may have been >flying lower and lower so he could maintain visibility with the ground. >The air cleaner may have been getting saturated with water and began >affecting the engine. He was getting very close to the end of his first >leg at the Winona airport and may have thought he could nurse it there. I >suspect that when he knew he wasn't going to make it, he looked for a >field to put it down in. By that time he was probably very low at about >300'. When the engine quit, he may have broken the cardinal rule by >trying a restart (with a pull start in the cockpit) and not flying the >plane. Again this is pure speculation, but knowing he was a very low-time >pilot, there is a great tendency to do this. By trying a restart, he was >distracted and did not see the stall until it was too late. The plane >stalled and he spun in. > >My question to the list is this: > >Has anyone flown a 582 in heavy rain and had it affect the engine? I >have flown my 447 in light rains and not affected the engine, but I >wonder about the effects of heavy rain. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original Firestar, w/447 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Herb said it all very well! > >Herb, > >Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to >fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at >altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is trouble >for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! Classic >no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of accidents >bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of >speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. >Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This >gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no >old bold pilots" > >Gary > >Souderton,Pa. > > > >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> > >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > > > > >Herb here > > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to > >global > >warming. > > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out > >since > >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No panic > >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on me!! > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > >steeply. > >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I > >like > >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in > >Ky > > > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's > >drop > > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fly 582 in rain
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Jul 27, 2001
07/27/2001 08:12:05 AM Ralph asked: >Has anyone flown a 582 in heavy rain and had it affect the engine? I >have flown my 447 in light rains and not affected the engine, but I >wonder about the effects of heavy rain. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original Firestar, w/447 Yup, I've flown in heavy rain with no engine problems. I was worried about the prop mainly, at the time, but it was not damaged (Powerfin). I have an aluminum fairing in front of the engine which may help keep the magneto end of the engine drier. The fairing does not seal to the engine very closely though. I flew for about 20 minutes thru fairly heavy rain one day returning from my friend Mel Wickre's house. It got quite wet inside my "fully enclosed" cabin but the engine did not misss a beat. It did sound quieter during the rain event, curiously. Slingshot crash... The Rochester MN paper had an article on Charles Veith's crash, I will type some of it: ""witness said he saw the airplane flying low at what appeared to be full throttle. It sounded like he throttled back and it started sputtering and it died. The engine was quiet, he made about half a circle around the field. It looked like he banked and went into the field. The aircraft's nose was badly damaged..." Also, there was a photo with the fuselage cabin section upside down, engine in the grass, prop broken to the hub, tail tube rightside up and snapped off a foot behind the cabin. The bottom side of the cabin nose is smashed badly upward, gear benty back slightly. Jim G ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Gives the media something to tak about besides Condit. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's drop >the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a >personal decision how to do your training... > >Next issue.... global warming? What say? > >Jeremy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clay Stuart" <cstuart(at)searnet.com>
Subject: powder coating
Date: Jul 27, 2001
On page 39 in this month's "Experimenter" (August 2001), Cy Galley writes: To effectively powder coat you must heat to at least 400 degrees for 10 minutes. FAA Advisory Circular (AC) 43.13-1B, Chapter 4 (paragraph 4-54b). On page 4-13, the paragraph warns you not to reheat 2017 and 2024 alloy aluminum above 212 degrees F. This will tend to impair the original heat treatment. Reheating, including the baking of primers, is not acceptable without subsequent complete and correct heat treatment. I am now concerned about my fuselage tube which is powder coated. All the other powder coated parts in kit #1 are steel and should not be a concern. Please advise, Thanks, Clay Stuart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Get plenty of altitude, establish your usual climb speed/angle, and chop the power. You'll find out soon enough. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very steeply. >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I like >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in Ky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: powder coating
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Your boom tube is 6061. A different alloy altogether. It is tempered to the T6 condition at the mill. Don't know what the 400 degrees will due to the T6 condition, but I remember this was discussed several times in the past...check the archives. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clay Stuart Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Kolb-List: powder coating On page 39 in this month's "Experimenter" (August 2001), Cy Galley writes: To effectively powder coat you must heat to at least 400 degrees for 10 minutes. FAA Advisory Circular (AC) 43.13-1B, Chapter 4 (paragraph 4-54b). On page 4-13, the paragraph warns you not to reheat 2017 and 2024 alloy aluminum above 212 degrees F. This will tend to impair the original heat treatment. Reheating, including the baking of primers, is not acceptable without subsequent complete and correct heat treatment. I am now concerned about my fuselage tube which is powder coated. All the other powder coated parts in kit #1 are steel and should not be a concern. Please advise, Thanks, Clay Stuart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Hi Jerry and all What is a good rate of climb for a MkIII?? Sounds as if this is one habit that I need to break---if indeed I am climbing out too steeply. Herb jerryb wrote: > > Here's another warning for you. We have two guys in a MarkIII buy the farm > - cause engine out - the pilot dropped the nose but left the throttle wide > open position, the engine restarted and being a pusher with a high thrust > line, it pushed the nose down and he didn't have time to recover before impact. > > We have also lost a number of pilots by making high angle of attack climb > outs trying to impress on lookers. In several cases they did. The engine > quits and because of there already slow, they don't get the nose down quick > enough causing a stall and crash or the same event happens as above. > > > > >HI Gary and list > > I appreciate the advice and info. I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my > >MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of > >them > >are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I > >weigh > >200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. > > The MkIII is certainly a confidence inspiring plane. Perhaps I have grown > >too confident and possibly complacent. Herb > > > > > >Gary Thacker wrote: > > > > > > > > Herb, > > > > > > Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to > > > fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at > > > altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is > > trouble > > > for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! > > Classic > > > no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of > > accidents > > > bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of > > > speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. > > > Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This > > > gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no > > > old bold pilots" > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > Souderton,Pa. > > > > > > >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> > > > >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > >Herb here > > > > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to > > > >global > > > >warming. > > > > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out > > > >since > > > >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No > > panic > > > >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on > > me!! > > > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > > > >steeply. > > > >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I > > > >like > > > >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > > Herb in > > > >Ky > > > > > > > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's > > > >drop > > > > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > > > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > > > > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: brocious(at)prodigy.net
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Herb, I too like to get my altitude quickly. Being a sailplane pilot as well I have been on a car tow which pulls the sailplane up like a kite, in a VERY high angle of climb, had the rope break, and recover. It is part of training. A Kolb affords you a high rate of climb while maintaining a reasonable airspeed. It is called Vy. You cover the least amount of ground while climbing at this speed. All manufactured aircraft publish this number. I don't know what that rate is for your aircraft but it should provide you with a margin of error above stall that will give you time to get the nose back down. I can tell you safely, that your best rate of climb will not be just above a stall. It will be probably be 5-7 knots higher than poweron stall. Having seen the terrain you fly out of I would also have a couple landing sites memorized depending on direction you take off. You could even practice your emergency procedures for these landing sites. I say, climb baby, climb. Just do it by the numbers. Bob Brocious Louisville, KY Still lookin' for "MY" Mark III --- Original Message --- From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > >Get plenty of altitude, establish your usual climb speed/angle, >and chop the power. >You'll find out soon enough. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >> >> Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very steeply. >>Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I like >>my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? Herb in Ky > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: For Sale
> The plane sounds good and the price sounds cheap. You should have no problem selling it fast. >I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter >lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. >Specs: >582 engine >Ivo 3 blade elctric prop >Electronic information system >Intercom >Flip Flop Com Radio >Srobe lite >Navigation lites >Matco hydraulic breaks >Winter enclosure kit. >Seat upholstery kit >Complete electrical system and electric start. >Exhaust cabin heat >Always been hangered! >See attached pictures >Still trying to decide what it is worth! But believe that I should ask at >least 16,000.00 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roland Lambert" <marotod(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Does anyone use the 3.47 to 1 gear box(e type) on their Kolbs with a 3 bladed prop? R.L. ----- Original Message ----- From: <brocious(at)prodigy.net> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > Herb, > I too like to get my altitude quickly. Being a sailplane pilot as > well I have been on a car tow which pulls the sailplane up like a > kite, in a VERY high angle of climb, had the rope break, and > recover. It is part of training. > A Kolb affords you a high rate of climb while maintaining a > reasonable airspeed. It is called Vy. You cover the least amount of > ground while climbing at this speed. All manufactured aircraft > publish this number. I don't know what that rate is for your > aircraft but it should provide you with a margin of error above stall > that will give you time to get the nose back down. I can tell you > safely, that your best rate of climb will not be just above a stall. > It will be probably be 5-7 knots higher than poweron stall. > > Having seen the terrain you fly out of I would also have a couple > landing sites memorized depending on direction you take off. You > could even practice your emergency procedures for these landing sites. > I say, climb baby, climb. Just do it by the numbers. > > Bob Brocious > Louisville, KY > Still lookin' for "MY" Mark III > > --- Original Message --- > From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > > > >Get plenty of altitude, establish your usual climb speed/angle, > >and chop the power. > >You'll find out soon enough. > > > >Richard Pike > >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > >> > >> Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > steeply. > >>Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine > out. I like > >>my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > Herb in Ky > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Tom Kuffel <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Hauck in Montana Report
For the 5th time since Monday, this is an attempt to report on John Hauck's stay in Montana to the list. John left Monday morning, July 23 at 10:25AM from Glacier Park International Airport (KFCA) in NW Montana. He hoped to reach North Dakota before stopping for the night. There were some mid-layer clouds in the 60 mile long valley leading to Marias pass which caused some concern. However this layer was breaking up when John took off and later I found out the pass itself was severe clear as of 10AM. John's radio is not repairable this side of the King factory so he has a borrowed handheld and headset adapter if he wants to talk to the FAA. The rest of his airplane is performing well with a few very minor glitches: tailspring tube had loosened as paint wore away under the mounting bolts heads and nuts, very small oil leak somewhere (of note only because the engine had absolutely none before) and John regapped his sparkplugs down to 0.020 from 0.028 which he felt helped the engine start smoother. The day given on The New Kolb website for John in North Dakota is wrong. On Day 23 (Monday) John was here in Montana. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Date: Jul 27, 2001
I prefer 60 MPH indicated! any slower doesn't give you enough time to recover at low altitute should you lose power. Difference between climb rates at 50 or 60 are almost insignificant. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Herb Gearheart Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:07 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs Hi Jerry and all What is a good rate of climb for a MkIII?? Sounds as if this is one habit that I need to break---if indeed I am climbing out too steeply. Herb jerryb wrote: > > Here's another warning for you. We have two guys in a MarkIII buy the farm > - cause engine out - the pilot dropped the nose but left the throttle wide > open position, the engine restarted and being a pusher with a high thrust > line, it pushed the nose down and he didn't have time to recover before impact. > > We have also lost a number of pilots by making high angle of attack climb > outs trying to impress on lookers. In several cases they did. The engine > quits and because of there already slow, they don't get the nose down quick > enough causing a stall and crash or the same event happens as above. > > > > >HI Gary and list > > I appreciate the advice and info. I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my > >MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of > >them > >are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I > >weigh > >200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. > > The MkIII is certainly a confidence inspiring plane. Perhaps I have grown > >too confident and possibly complacent. Herb > > > > > >Gary Thacker wrote: > > > > > > > > Herb, > > > > > > Yes and no. Yep altitude is your friend but you can try to get there to > > > fast. If you can get the nose down fast enough you won't have a problem at > > > altitude but. But close to the ground slow speed and steep clime is > > trouble > > > for sure. Low altitude nose up near stall and power failure..ouch!!! > > Classic > > > no no. Takeoffs and landing I would suspect are THE major cause of > > accidents > > > bar non. As you are well aware the attitude of the plane and the lack of > > > speed in a steep clime at takeoff equals disaster if you loose power. > > > Everyone is different but I keep my airspeed up a bit on takeoff. This > > > gives me the control I would need if I had a power failure. "There are no > > > old bold pilots" > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > Souderton,Pa. > > > > > > >From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> > > > >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > > >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:41 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > >Herb here > > > > I am fairly sure that an engine out is neutral in contributing to > > > >global > > > >warming. > > > > I began my flying carreer in Sailplanes and have had one engine out > > > >since > > > >flying my Kolb mk III . On the down wind leg at the local airport. No > > panic > > > >there!! Just seemed like old times. Water in the float bowls. shame on > > me!! > > > > Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > > > >steeply. > > > >Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine out. I > > > >like > > > >my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > > Herb in > > > >Ky > > > > > > > >Jeremy Casey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's > > > >drop > > > > > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > > > > > personal decision how to do your training... > > > > > > > > > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > > > > > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Hauck in Montana Report
Date: Jul 27, 2001
This time you made it. What did you do to get back on ?? Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Kuffel" <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Hauck in Montana Report > > For the 5th time since Monday, this is an attempt to report on John > Hauck's stay in Montana to the list. > > John left Monday morning, July 23 at 10:25AM from Glacier Park > International Airport (KFCA) in NW Montana. He hoped to reach North > Dakota before stopping for the night. There were some mid-layer clouds > in the 60 mile long valley leading to Marias pass which caused some > concern. However this layer was breaking up when John took off and > later I found out the pass itself was severe clear as of 10AM. > > John's radio is not repairable this side of the King factory so he has a > borrowed handheld and headset adapter if he wants to talk to the FAA. > The rest of his airplane is performing well with a few very minor > glitches: tailspring tube had loosened as paint wore away under the > mounting bolts heads and nuts, very small oil leak somewhere (of note > only because the engine had absolutely none before) and John regapped > his sparkplugs down to 0.020 from 0.028 which he felt helped the engine > start smoother. > > The day given on The New Kolb website for John in North Dakota is > wrong. On Day 23 (Monday) John was here in Montana. > > Tom Kuffel > Whitefish, MT > Building Original FireStar > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cjcullen" <cjcullen(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Date: Jul 27, 2001
> > I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my > MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of them > are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I weigh > 200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. I have about 20 hr in a Mark III that is 499 lbs., Rotax 503, and I weigh 180 lbs. I used to climb out at 50 mph. The Mk III was very stable and climbed well. Then one day I did some power off stalls and observed a very noticable stall break at 45 mph. I don't climb out at 50 anymore. I agree with Bob Kearbey, 60 mph climb out. Do some stalls. You have to know what the stall speed of your aircraft is. By the way, isn't your ASI reading low? chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: John Hauck at OSH
John arrived at OSH Wednesday, as reported by aero-news at 2AM Friday--also by Tim Oliver who gets up earlier than I do! Ol' John is steppin' highern a blind horse in a punkin patch, parked in the Number One spot in front of the Kolb Barn. Ck http://www.aero-news.com for complete text and pictures. Bob N. http://members.nbci.com/ronoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)nettally.com>
Subject: John Hauck at OSH
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Bob, Try URL www.aero-news.net for the article on John. Jim Hauck -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of bob n Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Kolb-List: John Hauck at OSH John arrived at OSH Wednesday, as reported by aero-news at 2AM Friday--also by Tim Oliver who gets up earlier than I do! Ol' John is steppin' highern a blind horse in a punkin patch, parked in the Number One spot in front of the Kolb Barn. Ck http://www.aero-news.com for complete text and pictures. Bob N. http://members.nbci.com/ronoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
> >Does anyone use the 3.47 to 1 gear box(e type) on their Kolbs with a 3 >bladed prop? > R.L. I do. http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Soldering Helper
Date: Jul 27, 2001
I saw a tool somewhere a long time ago. It was a little stand with two arms on it. On the end of each arm was a little clamp. These arms could be moved in any direction then locked. When soldering small terminals onto small wires, the terminal could be clamped with one arm and the wire with the other. That left both of your hands free to hold the iron and the solder. Does any one know where I could get one of these? Ron Payne Gilbertsville, Ky. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: rong, rong, rong
In case anyone hasn't figgered it out, I made a classic internet boo-boo. It's http://www.aero-news.net not .com At least John got there, in spite of me. Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering Helper
Re: them two little hans'----Radio Shack has 'em. bn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Chuck/Group I have flown my MkIII at 35 or 6 indicated. Admittely I was not looking at the gps at the time . This was the basis for my 45 to 50 mph climb outs. I did not care about the published specs at the time. I only wanted to know when my machine would quit flying or nearly so. Gps agrees when I am doing 55 to 65 cruise. I will go back to square one in the next day or so. I will climb to altitude and do full stalls. Several directions--probably didn't do that before with the mush experiment. I will try to do higher speed to's also. It may be that I have been taking off and landing faster than I thought? Gotta be a non linear ASI? My kolb cannot be 10 mph slower in stall!! Herb cjcullen wrote: > > > > > I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my > > MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of > them > > are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I > weigh > > 200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. > > I have about 20 hr in a Mark III that is 499 lbs., Rotax 503, > and I weigh 180 lbs. > I used to climb out at 50 mph. > The Mk III was very stable and climbed well. > Then one day I did some power off stalls and observed > a very noticable stall break at 45 mph. > I don't climb out at 50 anymore. > I agree with Bob Kearbey, 60 mph climb out. > Do some stalls. > You have to know what the stall speed of your aircraft is. > > By the way, isn't your ASI reading low? > > chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 27, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Bob and all You have seen my field. Have you flown over this area? Here in south central Ky there are fields everywhere. I would not fly this type of plane over hostile terrain. I will leave that to John and the rest!:-) Well---with a 912 --maybe.:-) Looks like the reason that I am still here has to do with the mush /stall test that I did early on. I cranked 10 to 15 mph on to that and have been using it as my min. It seems that I have an airspeed that is off on the low end? I started my flying at the soaring club at Highland-Winett airport east of St. Louis Mo. Training consisted of flying near stall a lot of the time. The whole idea was to recognize the symptom and automatically correct with small nudges of the elevator . A lot of 60 degree banked stalls also. That was with the 2-33 trainer and the transision plane the 1-26. They recover very quickly and with minimum loss of altitude as I recall. Not a full stall---just to recognize the onset and make the necessary adjustment. One of the problems that I have is that I have not explored all sides of the envelope with the Kolb; fully. Good luck in finding" Your mkIII" . Should be a few come onto the market this fall at the end of the flying season. Herb brocious(at)prodigy.net wrote: > > Herb, > I too like to get my altitude quickly. Being a sailplane pilot as > well I have been on a car tow which pulls the sailplane up like a > kite, in a VERY high angle of climb, had the rope break, and > recover. It is part of training. > A Kolb affords you a high rate of climb while maintaining a > reasonable airspeed. It is called Vy. You cover the least amount of > ground while climbing at this speed. All manufactured aircraft > publish this number. I don't know what that rate is for your > aircraft but it should provide you with a margin of error above stall > that will give you time to get the nose back down. I can tell you > safely, that your best rate of climb will not be just above a stall. > It will be probably be 5-7 knots higher than poweron stall. > > Having seen the terrain you fly out of I would also have a couple > landing sites memorized depending on direction you take off. You > could even practice your emergency procedures for these landing sites. > I say, climb baby, climb. Just do it by the numbers. > > Bob Brocious > Louisville, KY > Still lookin' for "MY" Mark III > > --- Original Message --- > From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > > > >Get plenty of altitude, establish your usual climb speed/angle, > >and chop the power. > >You'll find out soon enough. > > > >Richard Pike > >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > >> > >> Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > steeply. > >>Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine > out. I like > >>my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > Herb in Ky > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Oshkosh Trip
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Hi Everyone, Drove back today. Was at Oshkosh Wednesday and Thursday. Wanted to get a ride in the Xtra but when I was available they weren't and visa-versa. Met and talked with Steve Green. He flew up from Tennessee. I saw two other non-factory Kolbs but did not meet the pilots. Talked a little with John Hauck. He arrived Wednesday afternoon. What a fantastic trip!! He said he didn't think he would be making any more "long" flights. Don't know if he'll feel the same way after some recovery time. The new Extra has quite a few design changes. All seem to be for the purpose of reducing the weight to be a legal ultralight trainer. (Center control stick, flaperons instead of flaps, horizontal stabilizer back to the old size, etc.) I'm not sure how many of these changes will be incorporated or if this will be the new "standard" Mark III Xtra. I sense that the design is still being massaged. Also, the Extra had the doors off and they say it flys great with no excessive windage in the cockpit. Steve Green asked me if I had heard about the relocation of the horizontal stabilizer. I hadn't. The horizontal stabilizer on the new Xtra is approximately in the center of the fuselage tube. (I noticed John Haucks was also in the center). My plans call for it to be in line with the top of the tube. Danny says the factory will advise of the recommended change to the center. If you're building a Mark III you may want to confirm this with the factory. I don't know if it applies to every engine/Classic/Xtra combination or not. Also, the Verner engine that the factory tested had some problems. The starter had to be replaced as well as a blown oil seal. The "cogged" belts had a major problem of stripping the cogs. I know some of you guys are trying the Verner and you may want to keep an eye on those things. They were happy with the Jabiru and everyone I talked with had good things to say about it. Hope to see some of you at the Kolb fly in. I agree that we need nametags. I probably walked right by several of you guys at Oshkosh. Rex Rodebush (Rody) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
Date: Jul 27, 2001
Bob Did you get the pictures this time? I sent them as an attachment. Everything looked right when I sent them so I hope you got them. Sent them to your email address, not the Kolb list. Bob Kearbey kearbey(at)jps.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb Gearheart" <herbgh(at)nctc.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > Bob and all > You have seen my field. Have you flown over this area? Here in south > central Ky there are fields everywhere. I would not fly this type of plane > over hostile terrain. I will leave that to John and the rest!:-) > Well---with a 912 --maybe.:-) > Looks like the reason that I am still here has to do with the mush > /stall test that I did early on. I cranked 10 to 15 mph on to that and > have been using it as my min. It seems that I have an airspeed that is > off on the low end? > I started my flying at the soaring club at Highland-Winett airport east > of St. Louis Mo. Training consisted of flying near stall a lot of the > time. The whole idea was to recognize the symptom and automatically > correct with small nudges > of the elevator . A lot of 60 degree banked stalls also. That was with > the 2-33 trainer and the transision plane the 1-26. They recover very > quickly and with minimum loss of altitude as I recall. Not a full > stall---just to recognize the onset and make the necessary adjustment. > One of the problems that I have is that I have not explored all sides > of the envelope with the Kolb; fully. > Good luck in finding" Your mkIII" . Should be a few come onto the > market this fall at the end of the flying season. Herb > > brocious(at)prodigy.net wrote: > > > > > Herb, > > I too like to get my altitude quickly. Being a sailplane pilot as > > well I have been on a car tow which pulls the sailplane up like a > > kite, in a VERY high angle of climb, had the rope break, and > > recover. It is part of training. > > A Kolb affords you a high rate of climb while maintaining a > > reasonable airspeed. It is called Vy. You cover the least amount of > > ground while climbing at this speed. All manufactured aircraft > > publish this number. I don't know what that rate is for your > > aircraft but it should provide you with a margin of error above stall > > that will give you time to get the nose back down. I can tell you > > safely, that your best rate of climb will not be just above a stall. > > It will be probably be 5-7 knots higher than poweron stall. > > > > Having seen the terrain you fly out of I would also have a couple > > landing sites memorized depending on direction you take off. You > > could even practice your emergency procedures for these landing sites. > > I say, climb baby, climb. Just do it by the numbers. > > > > Bob Brocious > > Louisville, KY > > Still lookin' for "MY" Mark III > > > > --- Original Message --- > > From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead... > > > > > > > >Get plenty of altitude, establish your usual climb speed/angle, > > >and chop the power. > > >You'll find out soon enough. > > > > > >Richard Pike > > >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > > > > >> > > >> Around here; I receive a lot of criticism for climbing out very > > steeply. > > >>Some say that I will not be able to get the nose down on an engine > > out. I like > > >>my altitude and I like to get it quickly. Am I asking for trouble?? > > Herb in Ky > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Date: Jul 27, 2001
A standard way to determine a safe approach speed is to find what the stalling speed is in flaps up/flaps down and multiply by 1.3. That should equal a safe approach speed. Bob Kearbey CFII 1582106 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herb Gearheart" <herbgh(at)nctc.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs > > Chuck/Group > I have flown my MkIII at 35 or 6 indicated. Admittely I was not looking at > the gps at the time . This was the basis for my 45 to 50 mph climb outs. I did > not care about the published specs at the time. I only wanted to know when my > machine would quit flying or nearly so. Gps agrees when I am doing 55 to 65 > cruise. > I will go back to square one in the next day or so. I will climb to altitude > and do full stalls. Several directions--probably didn't do that before with the > mush experiment. I will try to do higher speed to's also. It may be that I have > been taking off and landing faster than I thought? Gotta be a non linear ASI? > My kolb cannot be 10 mph slower in stall!! Herb > > cjcullen wrote: > > > > > > > > > I tend to climb at 45 to 50 mph in my > > > MkIII. This has been described as too steep by most of the locals. None of > > them > > > are savy with this type of plane, however. It has an empty wt of 490 and I > > weigh > > > 200. Mushes at abt 36. I have never done a real stall with it. > > > > I have about 20 hr in a Mark III that is 499 lbs., Rotax 503, > > and I weigh 180 lbs. > > I used to climb out at 50 mph. > > The Mk III was very stable and climbed well. > > Then one day I did some power off stalls and observed > > a very noticable stall break at 45 mph. > > I don't climb out at 50 anymore. > > I agree with Bob Kearbey, 60 mph climb out. > > Do some stalls. > > You have to know what the stall speed of your aircraft is. > > > > By the way, isn't your ASI reading low? > > > > chuck > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Stall Characteristics
Date: Jul 28, 2001
I was out messing around with some accelerated stalls yesterday and discovered an interesting tendency of my Firestar. If I rolled into a 30-45 degree bank near idle and held altitude to let it stall, it would roll back towards level at the break, sometimes rather quickly. This worked in both directions and even with a little rudder towards the direction of the bank. Is this common? Did Homer incorporate some self-righting aerodynamics? Ralph...? Kip Laurie Firestar II Atlanta 86 hours since Sept ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
"Robert Kearbey" wrote: <> I agree. However, for high drag airplanes which lose speed quickly, such as biplanes, it might be 1.5 Vso. A good compromise for the Mk-3 is 1.4 Vso. Main point is you MUST know your indicated stall speed for reference. Bill George Mk-3 Verner Powerfin CFII 1464036 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: ID Magazine Sales Vendor at Oshkosh/Sun&Fun
Does anybody have the identify of the vendor and phone number for the vendor that sold Kit Plane subscriptions in the vendor building at Sun & Fun or at Oshkosh. I want to renew and would like to order through them. Thanks, jerryb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Stall Characteristics
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > Did Homer incorporate some self-righting > aerodynamics? > Ralph...? > Kip Laurie > Firestar II > Atlanta > 86 hours since Sept Kip and others, There are a couple of self-righting capabilities that I can think of in this situation (and again may I remind you that I am not a formally trained aero engineer). Natural pendulum stability below the cg in the vertical plane will try to level the wings but may not be enough. Depending how much dihedral is built into the wings could account for more. The slightest amount of lateral stick movement, opposite to the angle of bank, could be the main contributor. A pilot would naturally have a tendency to move the stick in the opposite direction under such conditions and you may have did it without realizing it. If that inside wing is in a deep enough stall, I doubt any of the above would level the wings and the plane would go into a natural spin. Try it in a steeper bank at a slower speed, but make sure you have lots of altitude. I've never tried that stuff myself. I'm satisfied with doing deadstick landings (oh-oh, I said the "D" word) and flying straight and level except when an occasional thermal tries to tip me over. I'm too chicken. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DMe5430944(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 07/27/01
why is this turned into "text", I don't have time to mess around with downloading etc. all I wanted to do is read the normal messages as usual, seems the Kolb list is getting too involved with itself, just keep it simple. Don Mekeel FF002, El Paso, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 28, 2001
List, I had an emergency landing during departure several weeks ago. I've been training in a MIII while completing mine. After about 8 hours dual, my instructor and I decided that if we went around 2 - 3 times, if everything looked good, and we both felt comfortable, I would solo. We lined up at the end of the 3000' grass strip, checked temps, fuel, & put in one notch of flaps. Pushed to full throttle & began the take off roll. When I pulled back to bring it up, it felt heavy, we skipped once, & then rotated. At 50 ft I knew it wasn't climbing right. Controls were heavy... At about 80 - 100 feet', I told the instructor we had a problem. I was so distracted by the handling, I let the plane drift over a road that lies roughly parallel to the runway. We could see a couple of semis & cars below us. I gently banked left, told him to take it. The instructor took the flaps out, put the nose down, & worked the throttle - we were only getting about 5800 rpm. We both looked left and right for a field, and it seemed like we chose the same one. About 1/4 mile long, roughly on our heading, and the rows of corn going in the right direction. With nothing else to do, I called airspeed for him - later he said he never heard me. Final looked good until we were at about 20 feet. There was a low muddy depression with what looked like a 2 foot ridge, at what I thought was our touchdown point. My left arm went up to brace myself on the windshield support tube - thought we were going to stick & flip. Turns out we went right over it, my instructor never saw it, and made an excellent landing. Now we're taxing through 2 foot corn trying to keep the wheels between the rows. About 400 yards away, we see a truck pull up to the edge of the field, and a farmer gets out... but that's another story. We only got 5800 rpm on the 582. I'm told that's about 20% under full power. When we got back to the hangar, put the plane away. He asked me if I was alright, I said I was. We talked about going up in the other MIII with the 912, smiled, and decided to go out for beer instead. I like to think I would have put it down as well as he did - maybe, maybe not. There's a fair chance I would have damaged the plane or worse. At least I kept the nose down, and the worst that happened was that things got mushy - which is dangerously close to stalling, and stalling from 80 feet leaves little room for options. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: MKIII Stalls
Something that is very apparent in my MKIII power on stalls: they are preceeded by a very loud cavitation of the prop at it encounters buffeting air coming off the center section of the wing, especially when carrying a passenger. Any body else notice this? Makes a great power on stall warning device, however it is not as apparent when flying solo. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: METAL TREATMENT
Hello Builders and Flyers , Has anyone treated the AL. tubing to prevent corrosion ? If so, with what ? Thanks for the info. Dave Snyder Long Branch ,N.J. Building FSII ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Soldering Helper - this might work
Seems like you could make one with a couple alligator clips, couple screws and block of wood if that all your using it for. A sheet metal or dry wall screw through the wire solder/screw terminal hole of each clip mounted to the upper edge of a short 2x4 laid flat on a surface. Space the clips where they can touch each other when rotated on the screws towards each other. I haven't built this but I would think it should work as a third hand for what you want to do. jerryb > >I saw a tool somewhere a long time ago. It was a little stand with two >arms on it. On the end of each arm was a little clamp. These arms >could be moved in any direction then locked. When soldering small >terminals onto small wires, the terminal could be clamped with one arm >and the wire with the other. That left both of your hands free to hold >the iron and the solder. Does any one know where I could get one of >these? > >Ron Payne >Gilbertsville, Ky. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: MKIII Stalls
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Mine does not do that Richard. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: Kolb-List: MKIII Stalls > > Something that is very apparent in my MKIII power on stalls: they are > preceeded by a very loud cavitation of the prop at it encounters buffeting > air coming off the center section of the wing, especially when carrying a > passenger. Any body else notice this? Makes a great power on stall warning > device, however it is not as apparent when flying solo. > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Thanks Bill, I will accept that.!! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: <WGeorge737(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Deadstickig is dead...thumbs > > > "Robert Kearbey" wrote: > > <
> stalling speed is in flaps up/flaps down and multiply by 1.3. That should > > equal a safe approach speed.>> > > I agree. However, for high drag airplanes which lose speed quickly, such as > biplanes, it might be 1.5 Vso. A good compromise for the Mk-3 is 1.4 Vso. > Main point is you MUST know your indicated stall speed for reference. > > Bill George > Mk-3 Verner Powerfin > CFII 1464036 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Soldering Helper - this might work
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Using the hole in the soldering iron idea worked great for the little D sub miniature pins, and I've found, now that I've had a little more practice, that the larger 9 & 12 pin connectors are much easier to handle. Crimp the middle tabs over the bared wire, and the upper tabs on the insulation, as I showed in the picture a couple of weeks ago. Then, with the tip of the soldering iron, lift the connector from behind, and push from above with the solder. When it starts to get hot, slip a tiny bit of solder onto the tip of the iron - it'll melt, and wick heat back up into the connector. A little bit more solder, to soak into the crimp, and it's done. Biggest thing is to limit the amount of solder you use. You don't need a big ball of it, to do the job. This morning I did the 6 pins for the strobes this way, with no holders, and they came out so nice, you can hardly tell they've been soldered. They snapped smoothly and neatly into the holders, and I couldn't help but grin. Super Pro Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerryb" <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Soldering Helper - this might work > > Seems like you could make one with a couple alligator clips, couple screws > and block of wood if that all your using it for. A sheet metal or dry wall > screw through the wire solder/screw terminal hole of each clip mounted to > the upper edge of a short 2x4 laid flat on a surface. Space the clips ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: twinstar for sale
A former List member "Warren" from Michigan has decided to sell his Twinstar. I was first to fly this aircraft and it flew quite nice. He asked me to post this for him. He also has a T trailer (very slick) that he is going to keep for other projects but if the price is right on it he may sell it also but not before the Twinstar is sold. Warren is mostly deaf so you must reach him by emails or Fax as he cannot hear over the phone. Kolb Twinstart two seat trainer available. Kit purchased in 1986 and completed in 1999. Fiberglass nose cone with stubby windshield. Single carb, electric start Rotax 503 with 10 hours TTAE. Engine recently completely disassembled and renewed by Green Sky, a Rotax dealer. Workmanship and paint superb. $12,000. SE Michigan, Ann Arbor. Photo on request. Reason for selling; lost wife of 47 years to cancer, must now realign everything. Warren Branscomb email wbrans(at)provide.net Fax 734/699-7101. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: Brocious Family <brocious(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: For Sale
Robert, Still have not seen any pics. But given how far you are from Kentucky I can safely say I wouldn't be interested. Thank you for the follow up though. Bob Robert Kearbey wrote: > > I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter > lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. > Specs: > 582 engine > Ivo 3 blade elctric prop > Electronic information system > Intercom > Flip Flop Com Radio > Srobe lite > Navigation lites > Matco hydraulic breaks > Winter enclosure kit. > Seat upholstery kit > Complete electrical system and electric start. > Exhaust cabin heat > Always been hangered! > See attached pictures > Still trying to decide what it is worth! But believe that I should ask at > least 16,000.00 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rbaker(at)shop4zero.com" <rbaker(at)ccgnv.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Chris, Thanks for sharing your experiance. Why didn't the engine develope full power? L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, FL Mark III, 912,BRS,N329RB. 95% Done, 20% to go ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Sudlow <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > > List, > > I had an emergency landing during departure several weeks ago. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
"rbaker(at)shop4zero.com" wrote: > > > Chris, > > Thanks for sharing your experiance. Why didn't the engine develope full > power? > Why wasn't 5800 rpm enough to get you back to your 3000' strip?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Group, I was out flying tonight and ran into a Kitfox pilot that also practices deadstick landings with his Rotax 582. Another good boy scout. There is one thing I forgot to mention with the crash of Slingshot pilot Charles Veith. He told me that he never used his flaperons and made all landings without them. This would increase his actual stall speed and is possibly another factor that led up to this accident. What is the approximate stall speed on a Slingshot without the use of flaperons? Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar, w/447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: WalMart wires
There is another parameter you much observe. It is the number of groups and the number of strands per group, example: 7x7 or 7x19. This impacts flexibility which can impact life depending upon the application. jerryb > > >Bob & all, > > I too thought stainless was better, but I found out that stainless is >much more brittle & it will fray around pulleys quicker. Unless you are >flying out of salt water, steel cable is a better choice for our >application, especially the UltraStar which has several sharp bends around >small pulleys. > >...Richard Swiderski > >- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Singer" <hp2693(at)cmuonline.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:35 PM >Subject: Kolb-List: WalMart wires > > > > > > Ed. I have looked at the WalMart "aircraft approaved" cable also but > > all of the ones I saw, including the ones at the local farm store that > > said "aircraft approaved" were galvanized steel. Every aircraft I have > > owned had stainless steel cables. I would not use galvanized steel > > cables in anything I am sitting in above the ground and our local AI > > agrees. For just a couple of pennies more a foot, you can get > > stainless steel cable from some of the suppliers like Lockwood or > > L.E.A.F. and be sure of its reliability and higher strength. Bob > > > > I changed and went to the next size larger diameter FAA > > aircraft approved Wal-Mart cable....No joke,it is aircraft cable from > > Wal-mart. Ed in Western NY > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: www.Kolbpilot.com
Date: Jul 28, 2001
Here is a site with pictures of Kolb people at Osh! www.Kolbpilot.com Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: JIMMY HANKINSON <jhankin(at)planters.net>
Subject: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Have a question for discussion: I have a FireFly with a Rotax 447, the instrument panel will only hold so many instruments. I would like to be able to check both EGT and CHT on each cylinder with one instrument. Only one CHT and EGT is displayed now. My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one output, work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with one output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a switchable output to one instrument. I know that there are instruments that moniter both, just looking for a reasonable safe way to do this. If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight by changing switch lever position This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious thought and answers!!! Jimmy Firefly #35, 447 Rotax Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 Southeast, Georgia JYL -- Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 28, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
>snip.... >I had an emergency landing during departure several weeks ago. > >Now we're taxing through 2 foot corn trying to keep the wheels between the >rows. About 400 yards away, we see a truck pull up to the edge of the field, >and a farmer gets out... but that's another story. snip.... So how many bushel of corn did you buy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)bpsinet.com>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Yes, some use one gauge and a switch to switch between two sensors. However, since we are dealing with microvolts and microamps to operate the gauges, resistance in the switch contacts or connectors will reduce the values you will read on the gauge. In other words, use the best switch you can find and make sure your connections are as good as you can make them. If space is limited, an EIS unit would, probably, be a better choice than switching sensors. IMHO Larry Davis ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "JIMMY HANKINSON" <jhankin(at)planters.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Switchs for EGT and CHT > > Have a question for discussion: > > I have a FireFly with a Rotax 447, the instrument panel will only hold > so many instruments. I would like to be able to check both EGT and CHT > on each cylinder with one instrument. Only one CHT and EGT is displayed > now. > > My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one output, > work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with one > output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > switchable output to one instrument. > > I know that there are instruments that moniter both, just looking for a > reasonable safe way to do this. > > If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be > monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight > by changing switch lever position > > This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious > thought and answers!!! > > Jimmy > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > Southeast, Georgia > JYL -- Airport > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one > output, work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with > one output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > switchable output to one instrument. > Jimmy > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > Southeast, Georgia > JYL -- Airport My personal opinion on this Jimmy is not to use a switch on the EGT. The reason the EGT is on the panel is to alert the pilot of a possible pending seizure in the engine. I don't think you want to be constantly switching back and forth between the two cylinders to monitor them. Would you believe I've flown all these years without a CHT? Again, this is my opinion, but the CHT monitors the fan belt. If the belt breaks, the engine does not cool and the CHT rises. There aren't too many other conditions where the CHT is going to rise when the fan is working unless you are setting a climb record. The fan belt, if adjusted properly, is extremely reliable. I had one on there for 10 years and it looked better than the new one I replaced it with. I think a combo 2-in-one EGT, without the switch, would be fine if you don't want to spend the money on a CHT. The EGT's will display immediate results of a pending engine seizure IF the instrument is being monitored. This means using a switch is not a good idea. Long before Rotax came out with the EGT plug ports in the exhaust manifold, we drilled a hole in the "Y" of the manifold. I still use my 377 muffler (14 years old) on my 447 with this hole drilled in the "Y" and my readings are accurate enough and both cylinders are monitored. All manifolds today have the plug ports on them, so it would not be a good idea to plug them and drill a hole, but I mention this because I did it years ago and have a combination EGT/tach on my panel. It works great and if the engine is going to seize, I only have one instrument to look at that gives me the information I need to take appropriate action. Pure and simple. These are my opinions and others will have different ones ...... just like the guys that think deadstick landings in a Firestar are bold and dangerous. Oops, I mentioned that "D" word again. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Fwd: METAL TREATMENT
In a message dated 7/28/01 5:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TAILDRAGGER503 writes: << Hello Builders and Flyers , Has anyone treated the AL. tubing to prevent corrosion ? If so, with what ? Thanks for the info. Dave Snyder Long Branch ,N.J. Building FSII >> From: TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com Full-name: TAILDRAGGER503 Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:20:47 EDT Subject: METAL TREATMENT Hello Builders and Flyers , Has anyone treated the AL. tubing to prevent corrosion ? If so, with what ? Thanks for the info. Dave Snyder Long Branch ,N.J. Building FSII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Date: Jul 29, 2001
I would not use a switch in either of these circuits. You are dealing with such low current flow that a speck of dust on the switch contacts would cause a very inaccurate reading and could be dangerous. I think I would do everything I could to find a location to mount two gauges for each application or go to an EIS system. Ron Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "JIMMY HANKINSON" <jhankin(at)planters.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Switchs for EGT and CHT > > Have a question for discussion: > > I have a FireFly with a Rotax 447, the instrument panel will only hold > so many instruments. I would like to be able to check both EGT and CHT > on each cylinder with one instrument. Only one CHT and EGT is displayed > now. > > My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one output, > work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with one > output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > switchable output to one instrument. > > I know that there are instruments that moniter both, just looking for a > reasonable safe way to do this. > > If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be > monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight > by changing switch lever position > > This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious > thought and answers!!! > > Jimmy > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > Southeast, Georgia > JYL -- Airport > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
Date: Jul 29, 2001
> Something that is very apparent in my MKIII power on stalls: they are > preceeded by a very loud cavitation of the prop at it encounters buffeting > air coming off the center section of the wing, especially when carrying a > passenger. Any body else notice this? Makes a great power on stall warning > device, however it is not as apparent when flying solo. > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Richard: My FS1 does this , even at low power settings, although not as loud. Darren, Central MI , 64" warp 2 blade. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Date: Jul 29, 2001
I had the same problem, so I called Westach. They told me that using a switch is fine, and using different wire than supplied is fine. Doesn't take a big switch; there's not a lot of current to worry about. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "JIMMY HANKINSON" <jhankin(at)planters.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:40 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Switchs for EGT and CHT > > Have a question for discussion: > > I have a FireFly with a Rotax 447, the instrument panel will only hold > so many instruments. I would like to be able to check both EGT and CHT > on each cylinder with one instrument. Only one CHT and EGT is displayed > now. > > My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one output, > work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with one > output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > switchable output to one instrument. > > I know that there are instruments that moniter both, just looking for a > reasonable safe way to do this. > > If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be > monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight > by changing switch lever position > > This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious > thought and answers!!! > > Jimmy > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > Southeast, Georgia > JYL -- Airport > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: N51SK(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
Dear list, I've been on this list for years but usually in a passive capacity. I'm flying a Mk2 that I finished in 1998 (bought the kit at Oshkosh in 1988) I have 175 totally trouble-free hours on the plane and engine (503SCSI) I fly the airplane solo (left seat) and notice a tendency for the airplane to roll left slightly when I take my hands off the controls. I suspect that this has more to do ith the fact that I (at 200 lbs) am sitting left-seat in a 380 lb airplane than the airplane being out of trim. Does anybody else notice this tendency when flying solo in a 2-seater Kolb and, if so, what have you done to correct this? Is it possible to correct this by adjusting aileron without having to resort to a trim tab (or a sand bag in the right seat)? On another subject, I am flying in Texas where the summer thermals are monsters. Since my training in flying was mostly in gliders, I like to attempt to soar my Mk2 when the weather is bumpy (all summer here). Is anybody else on this list soaring their Kolbs and what mods have you employed in an attempt to "clean up" the design to maximize efficiency (other than the obvious strut fairings and wheel pants)? What about the leading edge mod I used to hear about (wrapping the leading edge with and thin skin of aluminum sheet to get rid of the scallops)? I would be very interested in hearing from anybody who has done or is considering se kinds of mods to their Kolbs for the purpose of efficiency. Steve Kroll ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> Is anybody else on this list soaring their Kolbs and what > mods have you employed in an attempt to "clean up" the design to > maximize efficiency (other than the obvious strut fairings and wheel > pants)? > Steve Kroll Hey Steve, When you soar your Mark II, do you shut down the engine? I have heard of a Canadian pilot soaring a Challenger II and he shuts it off for over an hour. There are a few advantages that ultralight planes have that might help make up for the high drag. One is staying centered in the core with a tighter turning radius, another is slow flight to stay in the thermal longer. The third, of course, is the lighter weight. Answering your trim problem, I used to fly a Mark II from the right seat so you might try that. It's awkward at first, but you get so used to it that it seems natural. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 29, 2001
We think it had blow by on the rings, but won't know until it's broken down. They simply bought a new 582. -----Original Message----- From: rbaker(at)shop4zero.com <rbaker(at)ccgnv.net> Date: Saturday, July 28, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > >Chris, > >Thanks for sharing your experiance. Why didn't the engine develope full >power? > >L. Ray Baker >Lake Butler, FL >Mark III, 912,BRS,N329RB. >95% Done, 20% to go >----- Original Message ----- >From: Chris Sudlow <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:48 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > > >> >> List, >> >> I had an emergency landing during departure several weeks ago. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
Date: Jul 29, 2001
2 people, no climb, we had to put it in. -----Original Message----- From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> Date: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:02 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Landing Practice > >"rbaker(at)shop4zero.com" wrote: >> >> >> Chris, >> >> Thanks for sharing your experiance. Why didn't the engine develope full >> power? >> > >Why wasn't 5800 rpm enough to get you back to your 3000' strip?? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Reply about Avweb UL Coverage
Folks, I send replies to both Avweb editor and EAA Communications Dept.. Let's hope this does some good. It worked when Paul Harvey made his descriptive remarks on the air. The more messages they get, the more pressure on them. See the article under Top news stories titled "Down on the Farm Avweb published at the following URL: http://www.avweb.com/ The author describes ultralight as ""Wizard of Oz' winged monkeys." >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:32:03 -0500 >To: editor(at)avweb.com >From: Jerry Bidle <jbidle(at)airmail.net> >Subject: Avweb UL Coverage at Oshkosh > >Dear Editor, > >I was happy to see Avwebs coverage of Oshkosh fly-in and especially >ultralights until I read how they were referred to as "Wizard of Oz' >winged monkeys." I couldn't belive my eyes. How could any competent >aviation oriented magazine more degrade this category of aviation. > >Furthermore the author was not disclosed so they may rightly receive the >just credit they deserve within the aviation community. This short >article has greatly discredited and caused irreparable damage to the >ultralight community. For the sake of aviation if Avweb can not be more >responsible for what it puts in type, please do not cover future Oshkosh >Airventure or Sun & Fun events. > >Jerry Bidle >Licensed Pilot "and" Ultralight Pilot/Owner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: My Reply about Avweb UL Coverage
I, too gave editor Glenn Pew a coupla whacks--one for the odious comparison, and two, for lack of coverage on John Hauck's trip. curmudgeonly yers, Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: www.Kolbpilot.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
I just get a blank page. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: Kolb-List: www.Kolbpilot.com > > Here is a site with pictures of Kolb people at Osh! > > www.Kolbpilot.com > > Jon > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Sounds good to me. go for it. >If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be >monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight >by changing switch lever position > >This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious >thought and answers!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
In a message dated 7/29/01 9:50:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com writes: > Long before Rotax came out with the EGT plug ports in the exhaust > manifold, we drilled a hole in the "Y" of the manifold. I still use my > 377 muffler (14 years old) on my 447 with this hole drilled in the "Y" > and my readings are accurate enough and both cylinders are monitored. All > manifolds today have the plug ports on them, so it would not be a good > idea to plug them and drill a hole, but I mention this because I did it > years ago and have a combination EGT/tach on my panel. It works great and > if the engine is going to seize, I only have one instrument to look at > that gives me the information I need to take appropriate action. Pure and > simple. > > These are my opinions and others will have different ones ...... just > like the guys that think deadstick landings in a Firestar are bold and > dangerous. Oops, I mentioned that "D" word again. > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar > I agree with Ralph, I also have an EGT mounted at the Y on my 447 (KX Firestar) and although the temps will go into 1250 at that location I have never had a freezeup and always watch the EGT while flying to ascertain whether there is a hot spot happening.....you can always vary the throttle when it gets too high.....and it is very responsive to what is happening RIGHT NOW ...as opposed to the CHT which is buried in the mass of the head and plug and takes longer to respond to a flare up.....whew....I'm gonna have to breathe....sorry...for talkin so long Also a switch in this circuit is less than perfect cause the output of a thermocouple is in the neighborhood of a few milivolts and that has to be a perfect circuit to make that HUGE NEEDLE move up . Bear in mind that a few milivolts is only a few Thousandths of a volt...so the energy available to drive that meter needle up is very small requiring the circuit to have virtually NO resistance in it. The point is all switches have some resistance and the saving grace is that if you use a selector switch that wipes the oxides off the contacts when you move it the resistance is minimized....but it took you to do it, instead of having no switch at all which is inherently more reliable. I gotta quit this hope that helps, Jimmy. GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jbowaf(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 07/27/01
jbowaf in baton rouge (btr) question?? been reading the list for svrl months now. fascinated by the debate over low n slow, for which these ac seem designed (recreational/sightseeing etc) and cruising at safe altitude?? but i have scarcely if ever seen a ref to brs chutes.. what's the deal? did the two guys cruising the west and sw in their fs' s and john h. not have safety chutes?? seems a rather obvious necessity for the type of cruising i would envision for these type ac. is cost the issue or what?? i just dont get it?? tnx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: WILLIAM D BRADSHAW <PIPERJ5(at)shtc.net>
Subject: Re: Walmart wires
>I too thought stainless was better, but I found out >that stainless is >much more brittle & it will fray around pulleys >quicker. Unless you are >flying out of salt water, steel cable is a better >choice for our application. Richard Swiderski I agree with Richard. The stainless cable looks nice but it cost three times as much as galvanized at ACS and is not as strong (2000 vs 1760 for 1/8 th 7x19 cable). Danny Bradshaw Firestar 503 54hrs. McBee S.C. PS. The tube supporting the seat back on my plane is also bowed and has hairline cracks on each side. > > > Ed. I have looked at the WalMart "aircraft approaved" cable also but > > > all of the ones I saw, including the ones at the local farm store that > > > said "aircraft approaved" were galvanized steel. Every aircraft I have > > > owned had stainless steel cables. I would not use galvanized steel > > > cables in anything I am sitting in above the ground and our local AI > > > agrees. For just a couple of pennies more a foot, you can get > > > stainless steel cable from some of the suppliers like Lockwood or > > > L.E.A.F. and be sure of its reliability and higher strength. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
In a message dated 7/25/01 11:48:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, swiderskir(at)earthlink.net writes: > Your skill level will improve dramaticlly & you will > greatly improve your odds when (not if) your 2-stroke goes silent & you have > to put it into a tight field with the wind blowing. Instead of fighting > panic, you will be making calm decisions & flying your plane like you've > done many times before. Besides, if dead sticking isn't the purest form of > flying, its at least the purely funnest form of flying. ...Richard > Swiderski > Hear Hear Richard.....Um witcha buddy GeoR38, the ol glider pilot....flew for years with no engine at all but have a lotta respect for power lines....even though i NEVER hit one besides it was in the desert of ol El Paso Akron Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
> >I've flown all these years without a CHT? Again, this is my >opinion, but the CHT monitors the fan belt. Check your tech manuals. The cht does more than tell you if your belt breaks. A 2 cycle engine is not just air cooled it is fuel cooled. The cht will give you a good solid reading on what is happening to your engine if it is an air cooled powerplant. Use this to select or adjust your jets. The egt is to variable and can change in a moment giving false or temporary non destructive highs. Use the cht to fly by and the egt to diagnose problems along with the spark plug colour. The kindly people at Skysports who have been in the instrument business for years would rather you buy only a cht rather than an egt if you can only buy one. This applies to aircooled engines. I do not know the procedures for water cooled. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
In a message dated 7/26/01 12:52:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sc_bassman(at)hotmail.com writes: > I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy ... for the pilot and family ... an> d makes me contemplate my own potential fate. I just looked up the place> s involved on my MS Expedia. Appears that he had made roughly 112 miles > with about 158 miles to go ... not quite half way. Appears that there we> re no major towns or cities (or airports?) on his flight path from St. Pe> ter to Minnesota City. Wonder how much fuel he had on board .... whether> he had a headwind ... and what type engine? What flying experience did > he have overall? In the interest of safety for us all, I'd be interested> in hearing the cause and circumstances ... once determined. > > Randy Berry > Kolb Firestar KXP > sn.com > I just came back from Oshkosh and was amazed at the newscasts there that spoke of around 10 lives lost en route to Airventure this year...couldn't hardly believe it ... but I didn't know that one of them was a Kolb...I never did get a chance to open up that story cause the web site had changed stories to removal of porn from the streets of Winona by the time I went there on the tube. GeoR38 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
Don't take this as the only or the best way to solve your trim issue but have you considered a bungee cord trim. Take a small dia. (3/16-1/4") bungee cord, grab it in the center and twist it. This should form a loop with both ends on the side (like a O with a line on the bottom). Put this over your control stick. Locate a point on each side of the stick to attach the bungee cord. To adjust the trim, start with stick so its held in the center position (neutral) position. Slide the cord around the stick to hold it in the necessary position to hold the wings level in flight. Note, the bungee cord allows you to over ride the stick with little pressure for normal control inputs. Performance wise realize you are dragging an aileron so it will add a slight bit of drag but no more than if you held the stick by hand. You could also add a trim tab to the proper aileron. Question: Does the plane have any tenancy to turn with the wings level? > >Dear list, > >I've been on this list for years but usually in a passive capacity. I'm >flying a Mk2 that I finished in 1998 (bought the kit at Oshkosh in 1988) I >have 175 totally trouble-free hours on the plane and engine (503SCSI) I >fly the airplane solo (left seat) and notice a tendency for the airplane >to roll left slightly when I take my hands off the controls. I suspect >that this has more to do ith the fact that I (at 200 lbs) am >sitting left-seat in a 380 lb airplane than the airplane being out of >trim. Does anybody else notice this tendency when flying solo in a >2-seater Kolb and, if so, what have you done to correct this? Is it >possible to correct this by adjusting aileron without having to resort to >a trim tab (or a sand bag in the right seat)? > >On another subject, I am flying in Texas where the summer thermals are >monsters. Since my training in flying was mostly in gliders, I like to >attempt to soar my Mk2 when the weather is bumpy (all summer here). Is >anybody else on this list soaring their Kolbs and what mods have you >employed in an attempt to "clean up" the design to maximize efficiency >(other than the obvious strut fairings and wheel pants)? What about the >leading edge mod I used to hear about (wrapping the leading edge with and >thin skin of aluminum sheet to get rid of the scallops)? I would be very >interested in hearing from anybody who has done or is considering se kinds >of mods to their Kolbs for the purpose of efficiency. > >Steve Kroll > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 07/27/01
I don't see it a as rather obvious necessity. Some people have more faith in the strength of the Kolb airframe. Some newbies think the chute should be thrown if the engine stops. Everything is a matter of choice and personal opinion. If you feel safe in the Kolb design then fly naked. If unsure and wish a little more security dress it up with a chute. It is well worth it for your piece of mind. >seems a rather obvious >necessity for the type of cruising i would envision for these type ac. is >cost the issue or what?? i just dont get it?? tnx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Deadstickig is dead...
In a message dated 7/26/01 10:43:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jrcasey(at)ldl.net writes: > In the interest of avoiding beating this dead horse some more...let's drop > the deadstick thing. Everyone knows the pros and cons and its now a > personal decision how to do your training... > > Next issue.... global warming? What say? > > Jeremy > > you are good Jeremy! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
In a message dated 7/26/01 11:01:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com writes: > My question to the list is this: > > Has anyone flown a 582 in heavy rain and had it affect the engine? I > have flown my 447 in light rains and not affected the engine, but I > wonder about the effects of heavy rain. > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar, w/447 > > I have flown my 447 KX Firestar in totally saturating rain with no hint of > ill effect...as a matter of fact I was amazed at the "exploding" raindrops > on the full windsheild.... the drops never stayed on the Lexan...the drop > would hit and explode and disappear! I felt sorry for the guy flying the > pterodactyl ahead of me...he was soaked to the bone! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Jimmy, Westach are the people that build the analog type gauges. If Larry says he talked to them and they said it's OK to use a switch no problem. Good quality switch would be good with good connections to the wire. They make dual CHT and EGT gauges. The can be obtained with either dual CHT, or dual EGT, or one of each in single gauge. There is also a 3-1/8" quad unit available but I think I would stay with the duals unless needed. I got much more in our FireFly panel than you so your not even getting tight. Good source for duals are Sky Sports, Lockwood, Aircraft Spruce. I would stay away from Star Discount. Note, if you can afford the EIS, you will not be sorry. It may cost you a little more. Call Grand Rapids Tech. sob a little. PS get the large size. The have a remote push button option (used to be free) where you can hook up remote button to switch between displays if you can't reach the display. We don't use it since all the values for the Tach, both CHTs and both EGTs are on one screen. > >I had the same problem, so I called Westach. They told me that using a >switch is fine, and using different wire than supplied is fine. Doesn't >take a big switch; there's not a lot of current to worry about. >Lar. > >Larry Bourne >Palm Springs, Ca. >Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" >http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html >. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "JIMMY HANKINSON" <jhankin(at)planters.net> >To: "KOLB LIST" >Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:40 PM >Subject: Kolb-List: Switchs for EGT and CHT > > > > > > Have a question for discussion: > > > > I have a FireFly with a Rotax 447, the instrument panel will only hold > > so many instruments. I would like to be able to check both EGT and CHT > > on each cylinder with one instrument. Only one CHT and EGT is displayed > > now. > > > > My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one output, > > work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > > > > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with one > > output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > > switchable output to one instrument. > > > > I know that there are instruments that moniter both, just looking for a > > reasonable safe way to do this. > > > > If this is thought to work, the rear cylinder EGT and CHT would be > > monitored most of the time and the other cylinder checked during flight > > by changing switch lever position > > > > This list has been good with my other questions, how about some serious > > thought and answers!!! > > > > Jimmy > > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > > Southeast, Georgia > > JYL -- Airport > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: FW: For Sale
Date: Jul 29, 2001
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Kearbey [mailto:kearbey(at)jps.net] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: For Sale I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. Specs: 582 engine Ivo 3 blade elctric prop Electronic information system Intercom Flip Flop Com Radio Srobe lite Navigation lites Matco hydraulic breaks Winter enclosure kit. Seat upholstery kit Complete electrical system and electric start. Exhaust cabin heat Always been hangered! See attached pictures Still trying to decide what it is worth! But believe that I should ask at least $18,000.00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: FW: For Sale
Date: Jul 29, 2001
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Kearbey [mailto:kearbey(at)jps.net] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: For Sale I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. Specs: 582 engine Ivo 3 blade elctric prop Electronic information system Intercom Flip Flop Com Radio Srobe lite Navigation lites Matco hydraulic breaks Winter enclosure kit. Seat upholstery kit Complete electrical system and electric start. Exhaust cabin heat Always been hangered! See attached pictures Still trying to decide what it is worth! But believe that I should ask at least 16,000.00 pictures are an attachment. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: Re: kolbpilot
Date: Jul 29, 2001
> group, I got the site once, very nice pictures but a cranky server--- > tried to go from one of the page's links and got stuck. > You are right about that 'cranky' server. The server master has now corrected the problem and it is back on the air! Try again: www.kolbpilot.com Jon near Green Bay ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: FW: For Sale
> > >I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter >lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. When trying to sell on the list it is a good Idea to tell us your location. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 29, 2001
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
<<>>> 1.4 and hitting a ( energy depleting ) wind sheer at the time of flair........... well 1.4 Vso just wasnt enough.... been there.... done that.... but i am stil here to where the tee shirt..... just need to get the tee shirt and i will be set.. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: FW: For Sale
Date: Jul 29, 2001
Thanks Woody. I am in Oroville Ca. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)iname.com> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:06 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: For Sale > > > > > > > >I have a MarkIII we have flown for about 130 hours. I am taking helicopter > >lessons and want to buy a helicopter. Need to sell the MarkIII. > > > When trying to sell on the list it is a good Idea to tell us your location. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
Date: Jul 29, 2001
The leading edge skins idea has been batted back & forth several times, and there should be plenty in the archives. The consensus each time has been to forget it............seems to do more harm than good. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <N51SK(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:26 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01 > > Dear list, > > I've been on this list for years but usually in a passive capacity. I'm flying a Mk2 that I finished in 1998 (bought the kit at Oshkosh in 1988) I have 175 totally trouble-free hours on the plane and engine (503SCSI) I fly the airplane solo (left seat) and notice a tendency for the airplane to roll left slightly when I take my hands off the controls. I suspect that this has more to do ith the fact that I (at 200 lbs) am sitting left-seat in a 380 lb airplane than the airplane being out of trim. Does anybody else notice this tendency when flying solo in a 2-seater Kolb and, if so, what have you done to correct this? Is it possible to correct this by adjusting aileron without having to resort to a trim tab (or a sand bag in the right seat)? > > On another subject, I am flying in Texas where the summer thermals are monsters. Since my training in flying was mostly in gliders, I like to attempt to soar my Mk2 when the weather is bumpy (all summer here). Is anybody else on this list soaring their Kolbs and what mods have you employed in an attempt to "clean up" the design to maximize efficiency (other than the obvious strut fairings and wheel pants)? What about the leading edge mod I used to hear about (wrapping the leading edge with and thin skin of aluminum sheet to get rid of the scallops)? I would be very interested in hearing from anybody who has done or is considering se kinds of mods to their Kolbs for the purpose of efficiency. > > Steve Kroll > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: redundant fuel system
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guys, I read an article in the latest issue of ULTRALIGHT FLYING magazine about redundant fuel systems. I know this has been discussed many times over the years, but I have a different approach that I would like to get some opinions on. I don't have a rectifier on my electrical output, so instead of getting an electrical boost pump, I thought of using another Mikuni single pump in parallel to the other one as a backup. Both pumps would run continuously and would share the common pulse line with a "Y" and both inputs and outputs would be in parallel. A dual mechanical pump would not serve the purpose, because they share a common diaphragm. I need some comments. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Airgriff2(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 07/29/01 Engine out
In a message dated 7/30/01 2:51:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com > > Well, saturday, someone was watching over me again on one of my rutine flights. After a local 15 min. flight, I approached the field.and watching a gyro taxing for takeoff, I turned base & final. On final the gyro took the active and I announced my go -a -round. I banked left, added about 3/4 throttle, and about 15 to 30 seconds later it was as if someone applied a choke to the engine (which I don't have). The 618 got slower & slower and then quit. As this was happining I was shoving the nose over and banking towards the field. I needed to pull up and go from 55 mph to 50 to clear trees on the edge of the field. I then lowered again and questioned as to whether I was going to clear the corn on the edge of the field. During all of this, I managed to make 2 radio announcements. At this point I needed to bank hard right because there was not room to land crossways. Luckily the gyro saw me approach over the trees with a still prop and aboarted his takeoff. I did manage to land ok at an angle across the grass, runway , and then a small field that had just been cut by the neighboring farmer. It was so close that a fellow pilot pulled two corn leaves out of my outboard aileron hinge. If I was 20 ft. further away from the airport when this all happened, I would have either been in the trees with my ballistic chute 1/2 open or in the corn field. It started ok on the ground (not as easy as usual) and ran fine on a full runup with the tail tied down.. In flight I had all normal readings. Water 150, egt 1050 in cruise, 1200 climbout, 15 gal fuel. As the engine was dying down, I had only time to "FLY THE PLANE" and didn't look at instruments. I just thanked God for how the day came out and put the plane away. Now I'll start going over it with a fine tooth comb, as nothing obvious showed up ? Safe Flying Bob G Upstate NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)bpsinet.com>
Subject: redundant fuel system
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Not sure about it, but I've read not to do what you suggest. The pulse line should not be shared, I was told. It divides the pressure and suction to two low a level. That's what I was told, anyway. Larry Davis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ul15rhb(at)juno.com Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: redundant fuel system Guys, I read an article in the latest issue of ULTRALIGHT FLYING magazine about redundant fuel systems. I know this has been discussed many times over the years, but I have a different approach that I would like to get some opinions on. I don't have a rectifier on my electrical output, so instead of getting an electrical boost pump, I thought of using another Mikuni single pump in parallel to the other one as a backup. Both pumps would run continuously and would share the common pulse line with a "Y" and both inputs and outputs would be in parallel. A dual mechanical pump would not serve the purpose, because they share a common diaphragm. I need some comments. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: redundant fuel system
Date: Jul 30, 2001
You have an interesting idea. Does the engine pulse produce enough pressure to drive two pumps? If on one of the pumps fail and it is due to some sort of leakage, will are the pulse energy take the path of least resistance and neither will then work? -----Original Message----- From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com [mailto:ul15rhb(at)juno.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: redundant fuel system Guys, I read an article in the latest issue of ULTRALIGHT FLYING magazine about redundant fuel systems. I know this has been discussed many times over the years, but I have a different approach that I would like to get some opinions on. I don't have a rectifier on my electrical output, so instead of getting an electrical boost pump, I thought of using another Mikuni single pump in parallel to the other one as a backup. Both pumps would run continuously and would share the common pulse line with a "Y" and both inputs and outputs would be in parallel. A dual mechanical pump would not serve the purpose, because they share a common diaphragm. I need some comments. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice
I'm listening to all of this, but not hearing about the engine side of things. Forget about if you should do them or not, let everyone decide for themselves, I'm worried about causing more of a REAL problem for the engine than I have with the SIMULATED emergency. Meaning.....what water and EGT temps are you guys dropping to in these idle-ing in approaches? We know siezures are much more imminent with the chill, but where do you draw the line? Wouldn't key OFF be better since the cylinders wouldn't have the chilled water constantly around the hot pistons? (until key ON again with power to make more heat and keep the momemtum up for siezure prevention). Nobody wants a $200 to $400 bill for siezed piston repairs, so where is the balance? How are you doing this with the threat of siezure? - perplexed in Palm Coast - --- ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote: > > Group, > > I was out flying tonight and ran into a Kitfox pilot that also > practices > deadstick landings with his Rotax 582. Another good boy scout. > > There is one thing I forgot to mention with the crash of Slingshot > pilot > Charles Veith. He told me that he never used his flaperons and made > all > landings without them. This would increase his actual stall speed and > is > possibly another factor that led up to this accident. > > What is the approximate stall speed on a Slingshot without the use > of > flaperons? > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar, w/447 > > > > > > ===== John & Lynn Richmond :-) Palm Coast, Fl. Mk3 269LJ, 582, 41 hrs 1,400 miles, longest=270 http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kottke, Dwight" <dkottke(at)scherping.carlisle.com>
Subject: redundant fuel system
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Ralph and fellow Kolb brethren. The twin cylinder two stroke Rotax (or any other brand) engine actually has two sources of vacuum to run a fuel pump. You have two separate crankcases on each twin cylinder engine. Back in the early snowmobile days Yamaha had a vacuum line running from the crankcase to each combo carb/fuel pump. This could be done on today's Rotax, but you would have to tear it down, drill a hole in the case, press in a barbed fitting and then you would have two separate vacuum source's to run two separate pumps. What would happen when one pump fails in an ultralight plumbing application stills needs to be questioned. Has anyone given this a try? -----Original Message----- From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com [mailto:ul15rhb(at)juno.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: redundant fuel system Guys, I read an article in the latest issue of ULTRALIGHT FLYING magazine about redundant fuel systems. I know this has been discussed many times over the years, but I have a different approach that I would like to get some opinions on. I don't have a rectifier on my electrical output, so instead of getting an electrical boost pump, I thought of using another Mikuni single pump in parallel to the other one as a backup. Both pumps would run continuously and would share the common pulse line with a "Y" and both inputs and outputs would be in parallel. A dual mechanical pump would not serve the purpose, because they share a common diaphragm. I need some comments. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Kearbey" <kearbey(at)jps.net>
Subject: To JR JUng
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Dear John I have misplaced your email address.Please send it to me. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Andrew Gassmann <agassmann(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: vortex generaters
> >Rick: Last October you sent me the measurements and drawings of the vortex >generaters. I misplaced them and hope you still have the information and >would do it again. I'm ready to try them. Thanks >Dallas Shepherd >Norfork, Arkansas >Mark 3/2200 jabiru This web page, and following, shows the installation and dimensions of the vortex generators on a very nice Firefly. http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly17.html Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Subject: Re: Ultrastar for sale
From: Bruce L Borg <blborg(at)juno.com>
Mark Just found your msg again after returning from Oshkosh. Sorry I'm so behind in my e-mail. Had a great trip to the Islandsand Australia. Sorry to hear of Charlies incident. Is he OK? Seen Jewell and others from Wanamingo at Oskosh. Been enjoying the Aventura alot. Took a trip to sisters and freinds cabins up north with it. Also go on a flyin fishing trip every other night or so to a small lake near here. Bruce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Stroberg" <dgstro(at)albemarlenet.com>
Subject: FirestarII amphibian for sale
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Listers, There is a very nice 1996 FirestarII amphibian for sale in northeastern North Carolina. Equipped with 503DCDI, 10gal fuel, Full Lotus monofloat with removable wing sponsons, Ivo 3 blade, electric start, ASI, VSI, dual CHT, single EGT/RPM, compass and extra set of wheels. Always hungered, 126 hrs AF, 65 hrs E. Contact: Dave Stroberg, 252-264-2240 or e-mail. Photos available. Fly safe, Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Wee Wasp
Kolb trivia: a couple weeks ago, our EAA chapter was giving Young Eagles flights to a bunch of kids from Northern Ireland that were in the states as part of the "Ulster Project." (If you have an "Ulster Project" in your town, EAA Young Eagles rides are something they will love!) Anyway, when the Irish kids saw the MKIII, they promptly dubbed it the "Wee Wasp." Homer, what you started... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 07/27/01
For a Kolb, a chute is a function of engine reliability and terrain you have to fly over. The airframe is as good as any GA aircraft. But in East Tennessee, (trees trees and more trees) with an old (but apparently reliable- so far) Rotax 532, a chute is not a bad idea. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >jbowaf in baton rouge (btr) question?? > >been reading the list for svrl months now. fascinated by the debate over low >n slow, for which these ac seem designed (recreational/sightseeing etc) and >cruising at safe altitude?? but i have scarcely if ever seen a ref to brs >chutes.. what's the deal? did the two guys cruising the west and sw in >their fs' s and john h. not have safety chutes?? seems a rather obvious >necessity for the type of cruising i would envision for these type ac. is >cost the issue or what?? i just dont get it?? tnx > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 07/28/01
An adjustable trim tab on the right aileron is an easy fix. Straight back when carrying a passenger, down when solo. I added some streamlining this last winter. Top speed did not change, but the RPM's needed to maintain a given speed went down. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Dear list, > >I've been on this list for years but usually in a passive capacity. I'm >flying a Mk2 that I finished in 1998 (bought the kit at Oshkosh in 1988) I >have 175 totally trouble-free hours on the plane and engine (503SCSI) I fly >the airplane solo (left seat) and notice a tendency for the airplane to roll >left slightly when I take my hands off the controls. I suspect that this >has more to do ith the fact that I (at 200 lbs) am sitting left-seat in a >380 lb airplane than the airplane being out of trim. Does anybody else >notice this tendency when flying solo in a 2-seater Kolb and, if so, what >have you done to correct this? Is it possible to correct this by adjusting >aileron without having to resort to a trim tab (or a sand bag in the right >seat)? > >On another subject, I am flying in Texas where the summer thermals are >monsters. Since my training in flying was mostly in gliders, I like to >attempt to soar my Mk2 when the weather is bumpy (all summer here). Is >anybody else on this list soaring their Kolbs and what mods have you >employed in an attempt to "clean up" the design to maximize efficiency >(other than the obvious strut fairings and wheel pants)? What about the >leading edge mod I used to hear about (wrapping the leading edge with and >thin skin of aluminum sheet to get rid of the scallops)? I would be very >interested in hearing from anybody who has done or is considering se kinds >of mods to their Kolbs for the purpose of efficiency. > >Steve Kroll > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wee Wasp
Date: Jul 30, 2001
Richard, That's hilarious. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Wee Wasp > >Kolb trivia: >a couple weeks ago, our EAA chapter was giving Young Eagles flights to a >bunch of kids from Northern Ireland that were in the states as part of the >"Ulster Project." (If you have an "Ulster Project" in your town, EAA Young >Eagles rides are something they will love!) >Anyway, when the Irish kids saw the MKIII, they promptly dubbed it the "Wee >Wasp." >Homer, what you started... > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 30, 2001
From: Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com>
Subject: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
I am up against it now.... I was just notified by New Kolb that they will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship it. We will refund your money for it. The reason it will not be shipped is because our General Manager does not like the design. He does not feel that this tank would perform as well as it should. He was concerned about possible fuel starvation under certain circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not feel that this 19-gallon tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will not offer it anymore. I realize that you were looking for more fuel capacity. Unfortunately we have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon tanks. I am sorry," Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel there would be a problem with fuel starvation. However this fact is not going to get me the tank that I purchased with my kit. Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? Thank you in advance! Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re:ELT ANTENNA
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Hey Kolbers, Can you combime the ELT antenna with the com antenna with a Y BNC connector ? Rather than having two seperate antenna's. Is this acceptable for FAA inspection ? Has anyone tried this. Your comments are appreciated. Thanks. Hans van Alphen Building MarkIII Extra BMW powered. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
Date: Jul 31, 2001
I was a friend of Chucks--we went to high school together--I am a year older. We were to meet at Oshkosh and camp together in the UL area--Chuck was excited and looking forward to the adventure. I wondered where was Chuck--there were rumers of lots of accidents--so we went to the FAA building and Asked about N56CV--Chuck was born in 1956 and his initials were CV--I learned of the death on Wittman Field--It was very surreal being in that high energy place with all the positive and smiling people and learning the depressing news--I just sat arpound the rest of the show. Chuck was an experienced pilot--he was a part owner of a GA plane he kept at Mankato airport. His uncle and some cousins also flew--he had been a licensed pilot for almost 20 years and he was extreemely proud of building the plane and was amazed at the performance. He packed up the plane and practiced takeoffs with the full load on a 95 degree day--he said he would have never flown in a GA plane like that. He said it handled great. He had the standard 10 gallon tank and a spare 10 gallon tank on the jump seat with a facet pump to transfer fuel. The plane was inspected by the officials and the Kolb flyers around here gave it another inspection and it was a solid plane. The last time I talked to Chuck he said he was leaving Mankato at about 1:00. Chuck had flown off the 40 hours over a month ago. Chuck did not were a helmet. The plane was taken to Eden Prairie for examination. It sounds like several things went wrong. 1. Engine out--by it self this should not be a fatal event. 2. Failure to land safely. Either he had something jam his controls, or he landed in a cornfield or very rough area or he stalled at altitude and could not recover. His landing gear were bent and it was found upside down. Even that event is surviveable. Everytime I saw Chuck He had a smile on his face--he was a good man. I will never forget Chuck. Dale Seitzer -----Original Message----- From: Randy Berry Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:50 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy ... for the pilot and family ... and makes me contemplate my own potential fate. I just looked up the places involved on my MS Expedia. Appears that he had made roughly 112 miles with about 158 miles to go ... not quite half way. Appears that there were no major towns or cities (or airports?) on his flight path from St. Peter to Minnesota City. Wonder how much fuel he had on board .... whether he had a headwind ... and what type engine? What flying experience did he have overall? In the interest of safety for us all, I'd be interested in hearing the cause and circumstances ... once determined. Randy Berry Kolb Firestar KXP sn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
The Overton's boating accessories catalog shows a tapered tank that looks like it was designed to fit into the tapered area right behind the seats of an Extra. It is 30" across the front, 18.5" across the back, 20" front to back, and 9.5" tall. Don't know if it will fit or too big. They also show a 19 gallon tank that is 18" tall, 14" wide, and 18.5" front to back. They show a 15 gallon tank that is 16.5" wide, 12.5" tall, and 17.5" front to back. I have 15.5 gallons on my MKIII with a 532, and that is about right for me. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon >fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? > >Thank you in advance! > >Julian Warren >Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J.D. Stewart" <jstewart(at)inebraska.com>
Subject: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Cabelas has a bunch of boat tanks that include fuel senders. A lot of Challenger guys are using them instead of the stock tanks. They come in a lot of different capacities and sizes. http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+/CatalogDisplay/displayPOD/CabFA LL1998/CabFALL1998AUASAD/IB251D J.D. Stewart Internet Nebraska-Norfolk http://www.inebraska.com UltraFun AirSports http://www.ultrafunairsports.com Challenger Owners E-mail list and Website Administrator http://challenger.inebraska.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Julian Warren > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:46 AM > To: Kolb List > Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by New Kolb that they > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship it. We will refund > your > money for it. > The reason it will not be shipped is because our General Manager does > not > like the design. He does not feel that this tank would perform as well > as it > should. He was concerned about possible fuel starvation under certain > circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not feel that this > 19-gallon > tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will not offer it > anymore. > I realize that you were looking for more fuel capacity. Unfortunately we > have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon tanks. > I am sorry," > > Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel there would be a problem > with fuel starvation. However this fact is not going to get me the tank > that I purchased with my kit. > > Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon > fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? > > Thank you in advance! > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)bpsinet.com>
Subject: Re:ELT ANTENNA
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Never "Y" transmitters (comm radio and ELT) together on the same antenna. One acts like a load on the other. The ELT antenna can be a simple rod antenna and can be "hidden" in the back of the airplane. Larry Davis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hans van Alphen Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:28 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re:ELT ANTENNA Hey Kolbers, Can you combime the ELT antenna with the com antenna with a Y BNC connector ? Rather than having two seperate antenna's. Is this acceptable for FAA inspection ? Has anyone tried this. Your comments are appreciated. Thanks. Hans van Alphen Building MarkIII Extra BMW powered. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Oshkosh 2001
Date: Jul 31, 2001
The MarkIII Extra went on a diet--it lost almost 100 lbs. Now has center stick, sling seats, less luxury, smaller aelerons and flaperons instead of flaps --they are trying to get it down to 496 lbs--the original Extra was too heavy. The new Kolbra has an enlarged door opening. The New Kolb Co was not interested in having John Haucks plane in their area. Miss P'fer was moved to right in ftront of the UL BArn and was a very popular plane--I saw people running up to it because they recognized it--I saw John getting his picture taken with dozens of people--I had the privelege of helping to tie down and camping next to John for 3 days--we shared the food we brought and heard some great stories from a true gentleman. Dale Seitzer -----Original Message----- From: John Williamson Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Oshkosh 2001 I just returned from my first trip to Oshkosh this morning. Kolb Aircraft and Litespeed Aviation had a great display. Airplanes looked real good in the pattern. Ordered my Kolbra on Tuesday. Links to Airventure 2001 pictures I took: http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/AV2001.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbFF.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbFS.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbMKIIIXtra.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra1.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbra2.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/KolbKolbraCockpit.jpg http://dellepro.dellhost.com/williamson/VisitorMKIII.jpg John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolbra on order. jawmson(at)dellepro.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: ed mills <edgmills(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Julian Do you really want to go this way after what KOLB told you? THKOLB has given you their honest opinion and warning of possible problems that could be "life threating" under the right circumstances. REMEMBER, They are the experts on that plane. I will let you make the call as to whether or not you should proceed with the 19 gallon tank. However, I can tell you that I also am building a MK3/xtra and got my 19 gallon tank, exactly the same as THKOLB sells, at a marine store. It was called a "bow Tank". I can take a look at it this weekend to see who the Manuf. was and the model number. I might still have the receipt,I bought it locally. It was apx. 1/2 the kolb price which was a fair mark-up by Kolb in my opinion, because they put in a lot of design effort and also provided a install kit and instructions. Of course you will have to make your own inst. kit IF you go this way. You also have to cut two frame members just behind the seats to put the tank in place (per the KOLB instructions)These tubes are then spliced back together with larger diameter tubing acting as sleeves. IMPORTANT!!! Again let me caution you that I AM NOT supporting it's use but am only giving some info IF you chose to continue down this path (as I have). I don't want anyone on this list to read about either of us in an accident report some day due to a problem caused by this tank. Regards, and please give this a lot of thought. Ed MK3/X Dallas Tx. --- Julian Warren wrote: > > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by > New Kolb that they > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship > it. We will refund > your > money for it. > The reason it will not be shipped is because our > General Manager does > not > like the design. He does not feel that this tank > would perform as well > as it > should. He was concerned about possible fuel > starvation under certain > circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not > feel that this > 19-gallon > tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will > not offer it > anymore. > I realize that you were looking for more fuel > capacity. Unfortunately we > have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon > tanks. > I am sorry," > > Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel > there would be a problem > with fuel starvation. However this fact is not > going to get me the tank > that I purchased with my kit. > > Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source > for a 17-19 gallon > fuel tank that would fit my Extra? > > Thank you in advance! > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Berry" <sc_bassman(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Thank you for the update, Dale. I, too, have lost aviation friends, so know the feeling ... and feel this loss as well of a fellow Kolber :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Seitzer Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Accident On Way to Oshkosh I was a friend of Chucks--we went to high school together--I am a year older. We were to meet at Oshkosh and camp together in the UL area--Chuck was excited and looking forward to the adventureGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Cylinder head temp (CHT) guages are also useful for measuring minimum temps--Phil Lockwood said air cooled rotax engine should not be given full throttle if less than 200 degrees CHT. Dale Seitzer > My question is ------ would a switch that has two inputs,one > output, work by switching between the two inputs work on one instrument? > I have access to a switch that is a double pole double throw, with > one output that I could hook sensors from both cylinders and have a > switchable output to one instrument. > Jimmy > Firefly #35, 447 Rotax > Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 > Southeast, Georgia > JYL -- Airport My personal opinion on this Jimmy is not to use a switch on the EGT. The reason the EGT is on the panel is to alert the pilot of a possible pending seizure in the engine. I don't think you want to be constantly switching back and forth between the two cylinders to monitor them. Would you believe I've flown all these years without a CHT? Again, this is my opinion, but the CHT monitors the fan belt. If the belt breaks, the engine does not cool and the CHT rises. There aren't too many other conditions where the CHT is going to rise when the fan is working unless you are setting a climb record. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Tom Kuffel <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Re: Switchs for EGT and CHT
Jimmy, <> It is certainly true having two double instruments, a quad instrument or an EIS is a better solution than switching. However, if you do decide to use a switch one aspect hasn't been mentioned. Because of the low voltages involved (millivolts, not microvolts) you need to switch *both* leads from each sensor. In other words, two double pole double throw switches (one for the two CHT leads and one for the two EGT leads) or one four pole double throw switch. For the same reason you need high quality contacts. Any good electronics supply company will have 4p-2t rotary switches with gold flashing contacts. I have a 4p-4t switch like this on my homebuilt to monitor all four cylinders of its Lycoming. But such a switch will take up the same room as a second dual guage. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Tom Kuffel <kuffel(at)cyberport.net>
Subject: Re:ELT ANTENNA
Hans, <> The short answer is no. If the ELT is turned on it will probably damage the front end of the com receiver. Both ends of an aircraft radio cable should have an impedance (fancy word for resistance to alternating current such as radio frequency energy) of 50 ohms. Doing what you propose will make all three units (the com radio, the ELT and the antenna) have an impedance of 25 ohms at the far end of each units' cable. This will degrade performance both transmitting and receiving. Turning on the com tranmitter will probably, only probably, not harm the ELT unless you have the expensive kind where you can plug in a headset to both talk and listen. <> Don't know but no radio shop would think it a good idea. <> Do keep us informed about your motor. New engines are always a topic of interest on the list. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: ed mills <edgmills(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Julian Since my original reply I have located my 19 gal.tank info and receipt. (I had hidden it so my wife would not find it. This is an important step when building a plane.)Always remember--hide all receipts!! If you don't, your story that the plane only cost $5000 will be exposed. The 19 gallon tank that Kolb WAS using is manufactured by --MOELLER MARINE PRODUCTS 801 N SPRING ST. SPARTA TN. 38583 TEL#-931-738-8090 The model number is #32819 They only sell through distributors but can tell you of one in your area. The distributer will likely not sell direct either but will tell you a dealer in your area. This may not be a stock item for your dealer and they will order it. I had some trouble with my dealer in that he could not find this model in his catalog but we went back to the Dist. and he helped him order the right tank. Tank comes with Stewart Warner sending unit and S.S. hold down straps. I have not figured out a way to use these in my installation. Maybe you can do the Brain work and let me know what you come up with?? I will take the lazy way out and let you blaze this trail. I also bought some fuel tank inlet hose and a cap assembly that I am thinking of mounting on the outside of fuse cage. No real plan as yet however. Regards Ed Mk3/X Dallas,Tx. --- Julian Warren wrote: > > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by > New Kolb that they > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > > > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re:ELT ANTENNA
There are small thin flexible antennas available for ELT applications. > >Hey Kolbers, >Can you combime the ELT antenna with the com antenna with a Y BNC connector >? Rather than having two seperate antenna's. Is this acceptable for FAA >inspection ? >Has anyone tried this. Your comments are appreciated. Thanks. > >Hans van Alphen >Building MarkIII Extra >BMW powered. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Not receiving all list posts
Greetings, Yesterday I received 3 posts and today only one post from the Kolb list. They are replies from other posts I didn't get. Are other AOL users having the same problem? If so they probably will not get this post. Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice - Eng Temps
I don't take off until my cylinder heads are at least 200 degrees F, period. Once running the entire engine warms up, case, cylinders, heads and all. On an air cooled engine it unlikely you should experience any seizure as long as the engine is still running. If you shut down you have lost that heat source but it should still take time to cool the entire mass as the heat slowly dissipates. Not that familiar with the water cooled Rotax's but I would think again that once the mas is warmed up, it will not cool it down that fast or to the point of being a seizure issue as long as the engine is still running. If you shut it down, the heat of the mass would be absorbed by the water but the water since the engine is stopped is not flowing, would stay trapped around the cylinders. However if stopped, the cylinders and the engine mass would begin to slowly cool, but should not be an immediate cool down. Shutting the engine down for gliding is more of an issue since yes it can totally cold soak. We have a motor glider using a 912 in a hangar down the way from us. If I recall right the owner stated he has to restart the engine and allow it to warm up before applying any high power settings for that very reason. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/30/01
<<<<<< I don't have a rectifier on my electrical output, so instead of getting an electrical boost pump, I thought of using another Mikuni single pump in parallel to the other one as a backup.>>>>>>>> it would not be hard to put in a rectifier........go to your local electrical suply and but a full wave bridge rectifier, making sure it will handle the current load, put in a small batery and then install an electric pump... boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Safe at Home
Hi Gang: I returned to the nest at Gantt Int AP at 1315, 30 July 2001. Thirty days on the road and 134 flight hours to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska, down to Washington State, across the US to Oshkosh, and almost due south to Titus, Alabama. Off the top of my head I flew 21 of the 30 days. That is about 6.4 hrs per day for the 21 flt days, or 4.5 hrs per day for the duration of 30 days. My estimate prior to the flt was 130 hours total. Remember that I flew 4 hrs for free the day I had to back track to Weyburn, Saskatchewan, to retrieve my forgotten bag and water bottle. I still have not totaled my fuel burn or what it cost to purchase that fuel. However, it should be about 670 gals. I bought 3 qts of Mobil I 100% Synthetic 15w50 oil and a filter in North Pole, Alaska, for an oil change. The flight to Barrow was a complete success. The most enjoyable to date, with the exception of getting sick on my return to the lower 48. I left a trail of toilet paper across the mountains and plains as I coughed and blew my nose. I was surprised on several occassions to see toilet paper stuck to lift struts, gear legs, tail wires, tail wheel, and horizontal stabilizers. I am still coughing and blowing the snoz. :-) The 10 yr old MK III and her new Rotax 912S performed impecably. All my gear worked as intended. The Chilli Vest was worth the purchase price and more when time for it to be used arrived. It is virtually weightless, draws a very minimal amount of 12VDC power, and keeps the old body warm. Everyone I met along the way was kind and supportive to this old man and his little home built airplane. The few that knew little or nothing of our way of flight, were ignored when they made their unqualified comments about what my airplane looked like. :-) About the best comment was made by an Eskimo gentleman driving a water truck or a honey wagon in Anuktuvak Pass, Alaska, within eye range of the North Slope, "I like your airplane!" he shouted to me with the biggest smile possible, as he slowly drove past the airstrip, his upper torso and left arm out the window of the truck, waving grandly. My heartfelt thanks and gratitude for everyone's help to make this flight possible and a success. Just knowing you all were here at home waiting to find out where I was, how I was doing, and where I was going, was enough to keep me going. We showed all the non-believers that little airplanes built in basements can accomplish goals that larger, "sophisticated" GA and experimental airplanes only dream about. :-) Thanks again for you support. john h and N101AB (Miss P'fer) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DMe5430944(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/30/01
Hey Bob G, great flying, bet you needed an underwear change Don Mekeel, FF oo2, El Paso, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Date: Jul 31, 2001
I am sure most of you have seen that commercial. It was made about me. Has anyone installed a relief tube in a Kolb? If so, I would like some details. I intend to install one in my FireStar if I can figure out how to do it. Ron Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)state.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Food for thought . I originally planned on one of the larger fuel tanks for my VW powered MKIII. I have found that my engine burns app. 3G/Hr which gives me 2hrs. of flying time with a comfortable reserve. I find that for 99% of the flying I plan on this will be enough of a fuel capacity. Also after 1.5 hours of flying I find that my butt, or my head being squeezed by my head phones, and/or my blatter starts objecting. From the safety stand point its always recommended that you FILL the fuel tank/s after each flight to minimize condensation. My VW powered MKIII weighs in at 554lbs. and is going to have 30lbs added for a reduction drive. I'm no light weight and I will be enough over gross weight with two people on board without flying around with an extra 50 lbs. of fuel. If take a trip I will load up extra fuel tank/s in the passenger seat and/or one of my storage compartments. My .02 cents worth Rick Neilsen VW Powered MKIII >>> edgmills(at)yahoo.com 07/31/01 11:54AM >>> Julian Since my original reply I have located my 19 gal.tank info and receipt. (I had hidden it so my wife would ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Re: Emergency Landing Practice - Eng Temps
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> I don't take off until my cylinder heads are at least 200 degrees F, > period. Once running the entire engine warms up, case, cylinders, heads and > all. On an air cooled engine it unlikely you should experience any seizure > as long as the engine is still running. If you shut down you have lost > that heat source but it should still take time to cool the entire mass as > the heat slowly dissipates. Jerry and others, In a similar fashion, for the good boy scouts out there, if a practice deadstick landing is initiated, slowly bring the throttle back and hold at idle for 5 seconds before shut down. This is to prevent thermal shock to the engine. Did I say that "D" word again? Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 07/30/01
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> it would not be hard to put in a rectifier........go to your > local electrical supply and put a full wave bridge > rectifier, making sure it will handle the current load, > put in a small battery and then install an electric pump... > > boyd Thanks Boyd, here's an answer that a friend gave me that is interesting: What happens when a pump fails? I will assume for now that the diaphram ruptures. I will also make another assumption: the pump works on both positive and negative pulses from the engine. IF the above two assumptions are true, it would seem to me that if the diaphram on one pump fails, then the pulse from the engine would no longer operate the other pump since the pulse would have nothing to push or pull against on the failed pump. Check valves are not an option since the pulse is both positive and negative. No matter what kind of parallel pump scheme is used, both fuel lines need check valves to prevent reverse flow through the no-operating pump. Personally, I think that rectifying the output of your electrical system and running an electric boost pump would be the best way to do it. One could even go so far as to add a pressure sensor to the fuel line of the pulse pump, and have the boost pump operate only when needed (very handy for cold starts!). A by-pass switch could be added to run the boost pump continuously. Doug Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Safe at Home
Date: Jul 31, 2001
I think I speak for a bunch of folks when I say "Good Job"...now take a break...you deserve it! Jeremy Casey -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Safe at Home Hi Gang: I returned to the nest at Gantt Int AP at 1315, 30 July 2001. Thirty days on the road and 134 flight hours to fly to Point Barrow, Alaska, down to Washington State, across the US to Oshkosh, and almost due south to Titus, Alabama. Off the top of my head I flew 21 of the 30 days. That is about 6.4 hrs per day for the 21 flt days, or 4.5 hrs per day for the duration of 30 days. My estimate prior to the flt was 130 hours total. Remember that I flew 4 hrs for free the day I had to back track to Weyburn, Saskatchewan, to retrieve my forgotten bag and water bottle. I still have not totaled my fuel burn or what it cost to purchase that fuel. However, it should be about 670 gals. I bought 3 qts of Mobil I 100% Synthetic 15w50 oil and a filter in North Pole, Alaska, for an oil change. The flight to Barrow was a complete success. The most enjoyable to date, with the exception of getting sick on my return to the lower 48. I left a trail of toilet paper across the mountains and plains as I coughed and blew my nose. I was surprised on several occassions to see toilet paper stuck to lift struts, gear legs, tail wires, tail wheel, and horizontal stabilizers. I am still coughing and blowing the snoz. :-) The 10 yr old MK III and her new Rotax 912S performed impecably. All my gear worked as intended. The Chilli Vest was worth the purchase price and more when time for it to be used arrived. It is virtually weightless, draws a very minimal amount of 12VDC power, and keeps the old body warm. Everyone I met along the way was kind and supportive to this old man and his little home built airplane. The few that knew little or nothing of our way of flight, were ignored when they made their unqualified comments about what my airplane looked like. :-) About the best comment was made by an Eskimo gentleman driving a water truck or a honey wagon in Anuktuvak Pass, Alaska, within eye range of the North Slope, "I like your airplane!" he shouted to me with the biggest smile possible, as he slowly drove past the airstrip, his upper torso and left arm out the window of the truck, waving grandly. My heartfelt thanks and gratitude for everyone's help to make this flight possible and a success. Just knowing you all were here at home waiting to find out where I was, how I was doing, and where I was going, was enough to keep me going. We showed all the non-believers that little airplanes built in basements can accomplish goals that larger, "sophisticated" GA and experimental airplanes only dream about. :-) Thanks again for you support. john h and N101AB (Miss P'fer) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Not receiving all list posts
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Not on aol, Will, but for comparison, I got 14 messages from the List between 8:00 AM & 1:30 PM today. Seems like I miss one from time to time, as well. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <WillUribe(at)aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:09 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Not receiving all list posts > > Greetings, > Yesterday I received 3 posts and today only one post from the Kolb list. They > are replies from other posts I didn't get. > Are other AOL users having the same problem? If so they probably will not > get this post. > > Regards, > Will Uribe > El Paso, TX > FireStar II > http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: "BJ Moore" <BJMoore(at)c4farms.com>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Some people with incontinence problems wear the bags that attach for day use. This may be the application for you. Or you could go with the home made version. These are called pee tote tubes. Head on down to the local medical supply store and get some surgical tubing. You'll need to expand a coupe of sizes from discharge size to fit YOU. Some guys use sawed off mini bottles. Some claim they need coke bottles. Drill a hole through your floorpans to push the surgical tubing through. Don't set food on your tail feathers anymore after you start using this device. Getting this to fit yourself right is the key. You will look very stupid dismounting your plane while wearing this device. Almost alien. :-) Or you could simply hold until you can land! B.J. Moore, P.E. Circle Four Farms Development Engineer ASC Basic Flight Instructor - "The Flyin Moose". >>> ronormar(at)apex.net 07/31/01 01:42PM >>> I am sure most of you have seen that commercial. It was made about me. Has anyone installed a relief tube in a Kolb? If so, I would like some details. I intend to install one in my FireStar if I can figure out how to do it. Ron Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Safe at Home
John Hauck wrote: > > > Hi Gang: > > I returned to the nest at Gantt Int AP at 1315, 30 July > 2001. Thirty days on the road and 134 flight hours to fly > to Point Barrow, Alaska, down to Washington State, across > the US to Oshkosh, and almost due south to Titus, Alabama. > snip Congratulations John, I admire your courage and your persistence. Hope your soon feeling better. Eugene Zimmerman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Ron, This is too easy! Grab an old pc. of most any kinda hollow stuff---like a pc of hose. Diameter depends upon yer GPM output, but even small stuff works OK 'cause you're gonna, with any luck at all, have a partial vacuum (neg pee press) in the overboard line. Next "find" a funnel of the correct size--correct is a personal thang. Stick the hose into the end of the funnel, or vice versa, according to the respective sizes. Drill/punch a hole near the rim of the funnel. Form a hook outa a scrap of old bare copper house wiring--other end (called bitter end in the Senior Service) you put thru hole in funnel and bend closed. Make a loop outa a TyWrap at some convenient place to hang the funnel. Leave enough slack in the input end so that it can reach to somewhere near the middle of the seat. Now route the tubing overboard thru a neat hole cut in the belly fabric. Good to cement a cloth grommet around hole for chafing protection--and chafing is quite painful. Run hose down right gear leg (less splatter this way) and secure near axle with a hose clamp. Before tightening the clamp, insert one end of a 90 degree elbow in end of hose, AND POINT IT AFT--BACKWARDS--TO THE REAR, or you'll be sorry. Next week I'll tell you how to use it. Oh, I fergot. As with many things, there are more than one use for this device. When working on the brakes, it makes a great interphone. Just blow on the proper end when you want the other guy to "pick up." This same system was used on many ships--hence the term: Get on the Blower. Bob N. http://members.nbci,com/ronoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBIRDII(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Airstar
Well - chaulk me up as another customer screwed by Airstar. And man talk about rude!! WOW! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mhqqqqq(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Subject: Re: Ultrastar for sale
Mark Just found your msg again after returning from Oshkosh. Sorry I'm so behind in my e-mail. Had a great trip to the Islands and Australia. Sorry to hear of Charlies incident. Is he OK? charlie is fine, he is rebuilding it, and is almost done. Seen Jewell and others from Wanamingo at Oskosh. Been enjoying the Aventura alot. Took a trip to sisters and freinds cabins up north with it. Also go on a flyin fishing trip every other night or so to a small lake near here. I want one, maybe when my house is paid for in a few years. by then I should be able to get a used 912 to put on it. and get a sport pilot license if it goes through. mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Julian Warren <jgw300(at)webolium.com>
Subject: Fuel Tank
I want to thank each of you who sent me input into my fuel tank problem. It was very much appreciated. Installing my fuel injection system tomorrow. Hopefully will have it running this week. I am not going to be able to furnish thrust figures until I get the scales. I will know however about my reduction drive and prop combination, and how quickly I can achieve 3800 RPM indicated. If I can generate 90 hp it should be generating about 5# per hp according to local AP. Julian Warren Eugene, Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: redundant fuel system
"Wood, John T." wrote: > > > You have an interesting idea. Does the engine pulse produce enough pressure > to drive two pumps? If on one of the pumps fail and it is due to some sort > of leakage, will are the pulse energy take the path of least resistance and > neither will then work? > Hello fellow Kolbers, Here is my experience with the subject at hand. I have two pulse pumps installed on my Firestar with 377 Rotax. They both share the same pulse line plumbed as close possible to the engine pulse port. One is a single carb pump and the other is a dual carb pump. The single pump is plumbed to draw fuel from the bottom of the tank and into the carb as usual. The dual pump is plumbed to draw fuel from the top with the line going through the fuel cap with a clunk and screen reaching to the bottom of the tank. The one outlet line is plumbed with a shutoff valve and teed into the carb line. The other outlet line is plumbed with a shut off valve back into the top of my main fuel tank. I open this valve to transfer fuel in flight from auxiliary tanks to my main tank by switching fuel caps with the clunk and screen and drawing fuel from the auxiliary tanks. With this system I can run with one or both pumps supplying the fuel to the engine, except for while I am transferring fuel from one tank to another, then I am running on only one. With this system I have carried approximately 18 gal of fuel in five separate containers. I was astounded at the rate of fuel transfer this set up can produce at cruise rpm. My response to the concern about what happens when one pump fails, The only pump failures I have seen are when the small flapper valves go bad and malfunction. The flow of the functioning pump I believe will be more than adequate to supply the engine, and two valves would need to go bad at once for fuel to back feed from the operating pump back through the bad pump into the tank. As far as a catastrophic failure of a diaphragm vacuum leak. I've never seen one. For maximize pump performance keep pulse lines as short as possible and as smooth a flow path as possible for maximize pulse wave. I am not recommending anyone try this. It is just my experience and I am happy with the results. It does introduce additional hazards while flying. Eugene Zimmerman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Safe at Home
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Btrother Hauck... Well done, Soldier... Beauford ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" < Subject: Kolb-List: Safe at Home > > Hi Gang: > > I returned to the nest at Gantt Int AP at 1315, 30 July > 2001. Thirty days on the road and 134 flight hours to fly > to Point Barrow, Alaska, down to Washington State, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! - Reqmts
With a project of this importance we need to make sure we all the requirements identified and documented. Is this to service a single gender or both? You will need to be available for measurements and test fitting during the engineering process - if you not be available then casts will be required during the engineering phase. Will a holding tank be utilized or will the could seeding process be deployed. Lots of liquids (beer) will be required on hand during the prototype ground and in flight test. Please add or expand upon requirement which make have been missed: > >I am sure most of you have seen that commercial. It was made about me. >Has anyone installed a relief tube in a Kolb? If so, I would like some >details. I intend to install one in my FireStar if I can figure out how >to do it. > >Ron Payne > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
>snip... You will look very stupid dismounting your plane while wearing >this device. Almost alien. :-) Oh man, I could just imagine that happening .... just think if vacuum from the slip stream made it where you couldn't get it off and then the swelling takes over ..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: gotta go....
As I posted abt a year ago, I found that it didn't pay getting the plane captain peed with you. Had a slight case of reversed-direction belly outlet. Bob N. wwii ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thumb" <Bill-Jo(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Hi Julian I want to tell you about that tank that Kolb was selling. I bought one had it here and did not like it and took it back and advised them not to sell it any more. The point about fuel starvation is in my opinion is where the fuel pickup was located I could see picking up air at times when you are gettin low on fuel. Also they were recommending not using more than 14 or 16 gal I think. It was heavy , you had to cut out a section of the frame between the seats to get it in there. I did not like it at all,there was no baffles in it and there should have been because it was so large and flat. So I now have the two 5 gal tanks and will stay that way until something better comes along.For long cross country trips I plan on straping a 6 gal tank in the pass seat with a fuel pump straped to it that I can turn it on and it will be connected to one of the tanks. So all I have to do is flip a switch and it will put 6 gal in the tanks in flight. That will give me14 gal of useable fuel. And the two 5 gal tanks is a good system. But if you want that tank that Kolb was selling you can get it from Overtons boat supply.It is on page 99 and the part number is 30524 for $129.00.I would advise against it. Some day I will probably have someone build me one,maybr Kolb will start offering one made out of aluminum. Hope this helps. Keep In Touch Bill Futrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by New Kolb that they > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship it. We will refund > your > money for it. > The reason it will not be shipped is because our General Manager does > not > like the design. He does not feel that this tank would perform as well > as it > should. He was concerned about possible fuel starvation under certain > circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not feel that this > 19-gallon > tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will not offer it > anymore. > I realize that you were looking for more fuel capacity. Unfortunately we > have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon tanks. > I am sorry," > > Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel there would be a problem > with fuel starvation. However this fact is not going to get me the tank > that I purchased with my kit. > > Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon > fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? > > Thank you in advance! > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rbaker(at)shop4zero.com" <rbaker(at)ccgnv.net>
Subject: Mark III CG
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Listers, I have been holding up with this question until everyone recovered from OSH. Weighed "HOW MUCH! (I failed to hide the invoices) with the following results. Total weight 599.5. On the heavy side but no surprise with BRS, ELT, 912 and wheel pants, 10 oz. strobe on tip or horizontal stabilizer and 3 lb. tail wheel replacement for Kolb tail wheel. As I weigh in at 167 pounds, I will be carrying 40 pounds on the floor of the passenger side -16". According to page 68 of the builders manual this does not appear to be too far off. With my self, 120 pound wife and a full load of fuel on board, we are in good shape at 32.5% and 950.5 pounds. The empty (No fuel) weights are Right Main 264, Left Main 262, Tail Wheel 73.5. Backing into the pilot/passenger Distance by a second weighing with the pilot on board, gives distance of -1.3". I would be interested to know how these distances and weights compare with others. Measuring from the propeller to the nearest point (Flap Tube) I find 7" of clearance. The prop is mounted on a 4" Rotax extension. I am wondering if I should consider slightly longer motor mounts to move the 912 forward a couple of inches. All comments and input solicited and appreciated. L. Ray Baker Lake Butler, FL Mark III, 912,BRS,N329RB. Not quite ready for FAA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TBarry" <tbarrysprint(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: landing gear
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Hello, Can anyone tell me what aluminum alloy to order to replace a bent landing gear? Thanks in advance, Tim Barry Firestar KXP Tucson, Arizona ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Julian, I added a 6 Gall PE marine tank behind the two-5 Gallon std tanks and all are connected up to a common manifold. The marine tank is a smaller tapered bowtank and fits nicely in the triangular area in the back of the cage. It is sold at West Marine and other places for use in small fishing boats with outboard motors and cost about $35.00.and weighs about 7 lbs installed with the saddle included. The top of the tank is even with the other tanks and since it is flatter than the std tanks, it will empty first and there is no need for an additional fuel sender. The tank has a visual fuel level indicator on the top so you can see how much fuel is in the tank before you take off. The tank can be filled directly via the top fill opening or via the other tanks which is usually the way I fill it. The saddle that holds the tank is strapped to the boom tube with 4-heavy duty hose clamps.The tank fits just through the upper side opening of the cage when the regular tanks are removed and you only need to remove the 3/8"center rod from the rear of the cage to the back of the cross tube that runs behind the fuel tanks to get it in there. And since all the fuel is divided into three individual tanks, there is no worry about fuel sloshing. Frank Reynen MKIII/912/Full Lotus @ 635 hrs http://www.webcom.com/reynen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Jul 31, 2001
Sorry, I forgot to mention in my other post that this 3-tank arrangement can be viewed in my website ,below, under "Tech Info " and "912 reverse carb installation" side picture. http://www.webcom.com/reynen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C D Patterson" <cdp(at)islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! - Reqmts
Date: Jul 31, 2001
From the desk of C D Patterson On an Island in the Pacific ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > With a project of this importance we need to make sure we all the > requirements identified and documented. > > Is this to service a single gender or both? Absolutely necessary to examine all requirements [g] Seriously, check the Kayakers sites and supplies, devices are available for both needs, and could surely be adapted . /cdp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Date: Aug 01, 2001
I think I'll watch YOU blow on that "bitter end." Yuk yuk. Now, seriously, I had that same problem while driving, up till last Nov. Had to go frequently, and only a bit at a time, like an ounce or 2. And it had to be RIGHT NOW ! ! ! Frustrating, aggravating, & uncomfortable. While travelling, it's not convenient to stop every 15 - 20 minutes, so I worked out a deal that worked well for a solo driver; not sure about a pilot............great caution would be necessary. In a 20 oz pepsi bottle, cut a hole 1/2 way up the side, large enuf to 'dangle' in. Wear warm up pants with the crotch slit, for easier access. Before you laugh, it doesn't show when standing, or walking. When 'relieved', empty it into a 1 liter pepsi bottle - the bigger one with the large mouth, and put the cap on it. You don't want the one with the hole in the side to tip over...........not even a little bit. I wasn't going to say anything, but it looks like solutions are getting graphic, so this's mine...........it works, and with no tubes, or whatever. First couple of times, it's pretty awkward, then it smooths out with practice. If any ladies are reading this, and get offended, please................that's not my intent. I know full well - only too well - what a tremendous problem this can be, and this solution works. Uh..........No............Sorry.............No Pictures this time. Cured Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob n" <ronoy(at)shentel.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! > > Ron, > > This is too easy! Grab an old pc. of most any kinda hollow stuff---like > a pc of hose. Diameter depends upon yer GPM output, but even small stuff > works OK 'cause you're gonna, with any luck at all, have a partial > vacuum (neg pee press) in the overboard line. Next "find" a funnel of > the correct size--correct is a personal thang. Stick the hose into the > end of the funnel, or vice versa, according to the respective sizes. > Drill/punch a hole near the rim of the funnel. Form a hook outa a scrap > of old bare copper house wiring--other end (called bitter end in the > Senior Service) you put thru hole in funnel and bend closed. Make a loop > outa a TyWrap at some convenient place to hang the funnel. Leave enough > slack in the input end so that it can reach to somewhere near the middle > of the seat. > > Now route the tubing overboard thru a neat hole cut in the belly fabric. > Good to cement a cloth grommet around hole for chafing protection--and > chafing is quite painful. Run hose down right gear leg (less splatter > this way) and secure near axle with a hose clamp. Before tightening the > clamp, insert one end of a 90 degree elbow in end of hose, AND POINT IT > AFT--BACKWARDS--TO THE REAR, or you'll be sorry. > > Next week I'll tell you how to use it. > > Oh, I fergot. As with many things, there are more than one use for this > device. When working on the brakes, it makes a great interphone. Just > blow on the proper end when you want the other guy to "pick up." This > same system was used on many ships--hence the term: Get on the Blower. > > > Bob N. > > http://members.nbci,com/ronoyer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Aug 01, 2001
I have the 16 gal aluminum tank sold by TOK. I can send pics and measurements, if you like. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by New Kolb that they > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship it. We will refund > your > money for it. > The reason it will not be shipped is because our General Manager does > not > like the design. He does not feel that this tank would perform as well > as it > should. He was concerned about possible fuel starvation under certain > circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not feel that this > 19-gallon > tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will not offer it > anymore. > I realize that you were looking for more fuel capacity. Unfortunately we > have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon tanks. > I am sorry," > > Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel there would be a problem > with fuel starvation. However this fact is not going to get me the tank > that I purchased with my kit. > > Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon > fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? > > Thank you in advance! > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Peeout tube
Date: Aug 01, 2001
The relief tube problem can be "safely" accomplished by employing the use of a small 2" venturi that ,properly placed in the slipstream,will direct the relieved liquid in a positive removal to a new environment . Try to accomplish this task in remote areas or we all may be looking at a new issue to battle in our fight to be legitamized......Hmmmmm.......My troublesome neighbor has a pool under the approach end of my runway.......Ed in Western NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Sharp" <mlsharp_1(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Sporty's Pilot shop used to sell a H.E.R.E. (Human Element Range Extender) Even had an adapter for the ladies.... If memory serves, a bottle with tubing and an "adapter" for the equipment..... they are online... mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Stroberg" <dgstro(at)albemarlenet.com>
Subject: Gotta-Go
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Listers, Sporty's Pilot Shop used to sell what they called a H.E.R.E. (Human Element Range Extender), now they call it "Little John". 32oz. capacity, $4.95, can be adapted for either gender. (Autopilot anyone??) Fly safe, Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
You need to post a picture of that arrangement for all to see. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Julian, >I added a 6 Gall PE marine tank behind the two-5 Gallon std tanks and all >are connected up to a common manifold. >The marine tank is a smaller tapered bowtank and fits nicely in the >triangular area in the back of the cage. It is sold at West Marine and other >places for use in small fishing boats with outboard motors and cost about >$35.00.and weighs about 7 lbs installed with the saddle included. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
There is another solution, but it takes a lot longer to implement. Several years ago I was diagnosed with a prostate gland that was starting to have problems, and it was creating the need to go more and more often. Had to get up several times during the night, trips in the car were a hassle, etc. A friend of mine suggested taking Saw Palmetto herbal extract and it has turned things around. It is like being 18 again, at least in the "gotta go" department. During the annual medical exam, when the Dr. gives the dreaded "finger wave", he says the prostate has apparently returned to normal. (Sorry for the graphics, but what we really want is a solution, and this is my bona fide experience) It takes a while before you notice any improvement, at least six months. Apparently it stimulates growth of healthy tissue? I have been taking it for about ten years now, 1 pill a day. It may not help everybody, but what have you got to lose? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Date: Aug 01, 2001
All you have to do is practice peeing in a reclining position in a Kolb. Could be a problem? Dallas Shepherd Norfork, Arkansas Mark 3/jabiru 2200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sharp" <mlsharp_1(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 5:10 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! > > > Sporty's Pilot shop used to sell a H.E.R.E. (Human Element Range Extender) > Even had an adapter for the ladies.... > > If memory serves, a bottle with tubing and an "adapter" for the > equipment..... > > they are online... > > mike > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: BMW Powered
Date: Aug 01, 2001
>BMW Powered > >Do keep us informed about your motor. New engines are always a topic of >interest on the list. >Tom Kuffel >I don't know the answer to your question but I sure would like to know more >about your BMW power..... >Geoff Thistlethwaite Hey Tom, Geoff and Listers, Yes I am building a Mark III Extra with a BMW motorcycle engine. My obsession with the BMW started when I met Charles Kondas at Sun-n-Fun 3 years ago, where he held a seminar on the subaru conversion. He had used the BMW on his Avid, but since it was a tractor application, he had trouble with cooling in his cowling and gave up on the project. But he stated that it would be an excellent engine for a pusher. I was hooked on the BMW engine from that point and was determined to make it work. I bought a used engine and ran it on a test stand. Then I went out shopping for an airplane to put it on. And ofcourse the Kolb MarkIII was the choice. So last year I went to Sun-n-Fun and saw the new Mark III Extra. I was sold and ordered the fastbuild kit. I thought I was a pioneer untill I found out on the internet that these engines are flying all over europe and south-africa, at least 40-50 BMW's on all kinds of ultralights,kites, pushers and tractors. They even sell the adapter plates to mount the Rotax C gearbox to the BMW. I have mounted the stock engine which is 60-hp to see how it flies, it can be modified to 78-hp. See www.airdale.com/bmw_engines.htm for more details and pictures. I am adding a centrifugal clutch to the rotax C gearbox for easy starting and idling at 800 rpm, quiet and smooth. I hope to have it flying in 2 or 3 months, I am almost ready for covering. We'll keep you updated. Hans van Alphen Jupiter, Fl. N100MX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: Re: Peeout tube
General aviation freighters employ the venturi system but my A&P friend told me they promote corrosion where ever the liquid sprays on the tail. He had to replace some panels and was not very happy working in those areas. Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ In a message dated 8/1/01 7:39:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com writes: > The relief tube problem can be "safely" accomplished by employing the > use of a small 2" venturi that ,properly placed in the slipstream,will > direct the relieved liquid in a positive removal to a new environment . > Try to accomplish this task in remote areas or we all may be looking at > a new issue to battle in our fight to be > legitamized......Hmmmmm.......My troublesome neighbor has a pool under > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WGeorge737(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: Mark III CG
rbaker(at)shop4zero.com" wrote: <> Hi Ray, Your numbers sound about right. After installing the Verner I have the following zero fuel weight numbers: 258, 270 and 75 for a total of 603 pounds. I have a real tailwheel with tempered 4130 strut, fiberglas bucket seats on aluminum seat pans, steel gear legs, ELT, panel mounted radio and full set of engine gauges. These measurements were made with a calibrated Roadrunner scale set - very accurate. With my 218 pounds of pork on board the CG comes in at 34.9%. At max gross and full fuel it is 28.7% As you know, 20% to 37% is the allowable CG range. If I can ever find some simple seats to install my airplane will lighten up a bit. Bill George Mk-3 Verner Powerfin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: Airstar
KBIRDII(at)aol.com wrote: > > Well - chaulk me up as another customer screwed by Airstar. And man talk > about rude!! WOW! > Sorry to hear you were burned also! I just got off the phone with the Adv. Editor of Ultralight Flying Magazine. I told him I had sent a letter to his Editor about the way I was treated by Airstar and didn't think they should allow this kind of advertiser in their magazine. He said he hasn't seen my letter yet, the Editor has been away at Oshkosh, but they have received other complaints about this guy. He also said that they have been trying to make contact with this outfit with no success, Surprise, Surprise!! I have also contacted the editor of Kitplanes magazine and told her of my experience. If the rest of the guy's that have been burned by this outfit would contact these publications, maybe they would stop accepting their advertisement and keep others from having a similar experience. I've told them that I feel they owe their readers and subscribers to not allow this type of fraud. Terry FireFly #95 Quarryville, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Herren" <wmdherren(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Culver Props
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Valley Engineering of Rolla, Missouri, has purchased Culver Props -inventory, design rights and name and is relocating to 19975 County Road 8280, Rolla MO, 65401 Phone 573/762-2882. That's from Aug Sport Aviation Mag. Bill in Lousyana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III CG
Ray and Gang: Kolb MK III, SN: M3-011, empty weight 630 lbs aprx. Max gross at take off, full fuel and gear: between 1,000 and 1,200 lbs. Fuel tank: 5052 alum sheet by .052, welded, cross baffled. Ultimate/useable capacities: 25 gal/25 gal. Two longerons were cut and bolt plates welded on to permit installation and removal of tank. Has worked with no problems for 10 yrs and 1,600 hrs. On top of 150 lbs of fuel I add about 125 to 150 lbs of gear in the rear cargo hole under the fuel tank, some in and under the seats, and the rest in the nose of the nose pod and in Miss P'fer's bag on the deck in front of the left seat. I weigh about 175 lbs. Have no cg problems in this configuration, whether full or nearly empty fuel. Have flown this aircraft in all configurations that I can think of with no negative handling characteristics that could be attributed to a problem with acceptable cg. Had the same experience with my Firestar and 18 gal alum tank, gear, and me. The Kolb design is remarkably tolerant to cg changes and the most forgiving fixed wing aircraft I have flown. One of the reasons I stick with it. Satisfied with what I am flying. Have not found a suitable replacement to take its place. :-) Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DMe5430944(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
I don't have time ffor downloading this message nor the inclination. I call it up to read, not downloading etc. I'm about one step from cancelling you out. Don Mekeel FF002 El Paso, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
Date: Aug 01, 2001
HUH? Having a bad day? Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of DMe5430944(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01 I don't have time ffor downloading this message nor the inclination. I call it up to read, not downloading etc. I'm about one step from cancelling you out. Don Mekeel FF002 El Paso, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mhqqqqq(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: cherry grove anual fly-in
the 9th annual cherry grove central airpark flyin is on aug. 26th starting at noon or so. the cherry grove airpark is about 20 miles north of rochester mn in a small town called wanamingo. the air field is 2 miles south of wanamingo, for radio users we use. 122.9 or CB radio ch. 20. I hope to see everyone from the southern minnesota area there. driving is also welcome. Mark open twinstar wanamingo mn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: landing gear
> >Hello, > >Can anyone tell me what aluminum alloy to order to replace a bent landing >gear? 7071 t6 I believe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
Please don't!!!! Forgive us!!!! We'll try to do better!!! ROTFL!!!! > >I don't have time ffor downloading this message nor the inclination. I call >it up to read, not downloading etc. I'm about one step from cancelling you >out. > >Don Mekeel FF002 >El Paso, Texas > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Subject: Re: landing gear
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > > Hello, > > Can anyone tell me what aluminum alloy to order to replace a bent > landing > gear? > > > Thanks in advance, > > Tim Barry > Firestar KXP > Tucson, Arizona Tim, I checked and it's 7075 T6 tapered gear. There used to be the thinner, short gear for the Firestar and the wider heavy duty type for the Twinstar and Mark II, III. I took the sleeve out of my Firestar gear socket and used the heavier gear leg. I did not cut them off and my Firestar sits up higher on the nose and I can make full stall landings with them. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 14 years flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mark haley" <mhaley(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: landing gear
Date: Aug 01, 2001
I have bent mine twice and put them in a press and straightened them. Does real nice. They weren't bent double ya understand but pretty bad. I called the Kolb factory to rreplace them and they told me to straighten them. I was worried about fatigueand cracks but no cracks showed and it has not been a problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: landing gear > > > > >Hello, > > > >Can anyone tell me what aluminum alloy to order to replace a bent landing > >gear? > > > 7071 t6 I believe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jrodebush" <jrodebush(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Mark III large fuel tank
Date: Aug 01, 2001
I also ordered the large tank but TNK keep telling me it was recalled & being redisigned. Talked with Danny at Oshkosh last week and got the same news as Julian did. Danny seemed to be more concerned with the extra weight of the tank rather than fuel starvation when I talked with him. He said to contact TNK for a refund. Thanks to all for the good information on other tank options. Rody in Cincinnati ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Richard, Did you get my second message that there is a picture of this tank setup in my website? Look under "Tech Info" and "912 reverse carb installation "and the first picture shows the three tanks. If you want more info, let me know. Frank http://www.webcom.com/reynen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > You need to post a picture of that arrangement for all to see. > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TBarry" <tbarrysprint(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: landing gear
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Thanks to all who responded. My bent gear was not too bad. Maybe 10-15 degrees. I tried to bend it back with a hydrolic press and it exploded! Have since done some inquiring and have been told that the 7075T6 alloy is very, very strong but at the same time is brittle and it showed. I have since ordered a replacement from Kolb. I got a quote locally for machining in the taper. That was cheap, the aluminum stock however was $50. Kolb is selling it for $45 and it is already tapered. Moral of the story is if you bend a gear, I think it needs to be replaced. My gear is 24 inches and 1 1/8" diameter and tapers to 7/8". Is that the old gear or the new heavier duty version? Thanks again, Tim Barry Firestar KXP Tucson, Arizona ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Yah, tried that..........didn't work for me. I went the surgery route, and it worked very well, but went thru a lot of un-necessary pain & misery. If anyone's contemplating that, email me off List, and I'll tell you what to watch for. Had I only known....................... Do not Archive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! > > There is another solution, but it takes a lot longer to implement. > Several years ago I was diagnosed with a prostate gland that > was starting to have problems, and it was creating the need to > go more and more often. Had to get up several times during the > night, trips in the car were a hassle, etc. > A friend of mine suggested taking Saw Palmetto herbal extract > and it has turned things around. It is like being 18 again, at least > in the "gotta go" department. During the annual medical exam, > when the Dr. gives the dreaded "finger wave", he says the prostate > has apparently returned to normal. (Sorry for the graphics, but what > we really want is a solution, and this is my bona fide experience) > It takes a while before you notice any improvement, at least six months. > Apparently it stimulates growth of healthy tissue? > I have been taking it for about ten years now, 1 pill a day. > It may not help everybody, but what have you got to lose? > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
Date: Aug 01, 2001
So, Cancel then. One day, maybe you'll learn what the delete key is for. Adios, M.F. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: <DMe5430944(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01 > > I don't have time ffor downloading this message nor the inclination. I call > it up to read, not downloading etc. I'm about one step from cancelling you > out. > > Don Mekeel FF002 > El Paso, Texas > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 2001
From: Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: tube prep
Kolbers, cleaning up old , chipped cage tubing... go to a plumbing supply and buy what is called a "plumber's roll" of sandcloth. get both 120 and 220. Do a half-wrap and do the shoeshine boy stroke. It does a great job of clean-up of both mill glaze, that chipped white stuff originally put on, and surface rust. I'm trying rustoleum's satin indoor-outdoor spray can furniture paint on the tubes. looks good so far. It comes in a satin green (zinc chromate look-alike) white, black, and a funky looking maroon. If you weld near it, it doesn't blister up and look nasty. ...for what it's worth....BB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank
Date: Aug 01, 2001
This reminds me...............I went to the local US Rental a couple of weeks ago, and asked about scales, strain gauges, etc. They looked at me like I'd grown antlers, or something. Soooo................no scales. Sorry guys, but for once, I didn't forget. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Tank > > I want to thank each of you who sent me input into my fuel tank > problem. It was very much appreciated. > > Installing my fuel injection system tomorrow. Hopefully will have it > running this week. I am not going to be able to furnish thrust figures > until I get the scales. I will know however about my reduction drive > and prop combination, and how quickly I can achieve 3800 RPM indicated. > If I can generate 90 hp it should be generating about 5# per hp > according to local AP. > > Julian Warren > Eugene, Oregon > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thumb" <Bill-Jo(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank
Date: Aug 01, 2001
Sure would like to see them . Thanks Larry Bill Futrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > I have the 16 gal aluminum tank sold by TOK. I can send pics and > measurements, if you like. Lar. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, Ca. > Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" > http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com> > To: "Kolb List" > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:46 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Extra Fuel Tank > > > > > > I am up against it now.... I was just notified by New Kolb that they > > will no longer ship the 19 gallon gas tank: > > > > "Regarding the 19 gallon gas tank, we will not ship it. We will refund > > your > > money for it. > > The reason it will not be shipped is because our General Manager does > > not > > like the design. He does not feel that this tank would perform as well > > as it > > should. He was concerned about possible fuel starvation under certain > > circumstances. The bottom line is that he does not feel that this > > 19-gallon > > tank would not perform as we anticipated so we will not offer it > > anymore. > > I realize that you were looking for more fuel capacity. Unfortunately we > > have no alternative to offer but the stock 5-gallon tanks. > > I am sorry," > > > > Since I will be using a VW Engine I do not feel there would be a problem > > with fuel starvation. However this fact is not going to get me the tank > > that I purchased with my kit. > > > > Is there anyone on the list that knows of a source for a 17-19 gallon > > fuel tank that would fit my Xtra? > > > > Thank you in advance! > > > > Julian Warren > > Eugene, Oregon > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: tube prep
Date: Aug 02, 2001
If you are going to have to glue any fabric on these tubes, be sure and run a test to see if the glue raises the paint. I touched up a few spots on my cage with rustoleum as I didn't want to mix up a batch of epoxy for just a little job. When I applied Poly-Tac to these spots, the paint blistered up and I had to remove all of it and re-apply epoxy. Ron Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Bean" <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Kolb-List: tube prep > > Kolbers, cleaning up old , chipped cage tubing... go to a plumbing > supply and buy what is called a "plumber's roll" of sandcloth. get > both 120 and 220. Do a half-wrap and do the shoeshine boy stroke. > It does a great job of clean-up of both mill glaze, that chipped white > stuff originally put on, and surface rust. I'm trying rustoleum's satin > indoor-outdoor spray can furniture paint on the tubes. looks good > so far. It comes in a satin green (zinc chromate look-alike) white, > black, and a funky looking maroon. If you weld near it, it doesn't > blister up and look nasty. ...for what it's worth....BB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Hey Ray, If you can bring that dead weight forward you can save a lot of weight, if you bring it forward by 20 inches you only need 2 lbs. Hans van Alphen Building Mark III Extra BMW powered >I will be carrying 40 pounds on the floor of the passenger side .......- >All comments and input solicited and appreciated. > >L. Ray Baker >Lake Butler, FL >Mark III, 912,BRS,N329RB. >Not quite ready for FAA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dale Seitzer <dale(at)gmada.com>
Subject: tube prep
Date: Aug 02, 2001
I believe the fabric adhesive will melt the paint and the fabric will not stick. One must use automotive or airplane paint that has a hardener added to it. Dale Seitzer -----Original Message----- From: Bob Bean Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: Kolb-List: tube prep Kolbers, cleaning up old , chipped cage tubing... go to a plumbing supply and buy what is called a "plumber's roll" of sandcloth. get both 120 and 220. Do a half-wrap and do the shoeshine boy stroke. It does a great job of clean-up of both mill glaze, that chipped white stuff originally put on, and surface rust. I'm trying rustoleum's satin indoor-outdoor spray can furniture paint on the tubes. looks good so far. It comes in a satin green (zinc chromate look-alike) white, black, and a funky looking maroon. If you weld near it, it doesn't blister up and look nasty. ...for what it's worth....BB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank
Probably thought you were a drug dealer just starting out. Cotton bale scales - like a big brother of the fish weighing scales. I don't know where people get them but I have seen them. Don't get the "thrust" scales from Aircraft Spruce, leaked oil all over - poor workman ship on there vendors part. jerryb > >This reminds me...............I went to the local US Rental a couple of >weeks ago, and asked about scales, strain gauges, etc. They looked at me >like I'd grown antlers, or something. Soooo................no scales. >Sorry guys, but for once, I didn't forget. > >Larry Bourne >Palm Springs, Ca. >Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" >http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html >. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Julian Warren" <jgw300(at)webolium.com> >To: "Kolb List" >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:28 PM >Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Tank > > > > > > I want to thank each of you who sent me input into my fuel tank > > problem. It was very much appreciated. > > > > Installing my fuel injection system tomorrow. Hopefully will have it > > running this week. I am not going to be able to furnish thrust figures > > until I get the scales. I will know however about my reduction drive > > and prop combination, and how quickly I can achieve 3800 RPM indicated. > > If I can generate 90 hp it should be generating about 5# per hp > > according to local AP. > > > > Julian Warren > > Eugene, Oregon > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: tube prep
sanders, welders, filers and grinders....ok, I checked out that rustoleum furniture paint. It's been on about a week. I did the old lacquer thinner solubility test and it's remarkably resistant. After some rubbing with a soaked rag a little color did transfer, but I'm quite satisfied with the result. ---thanks for prodding me into it however. Mind you, I'm not talking about the regular glossy stuff. It sure beats the orig coating that easily flaked off the tubes when scraped with the edge of a scewdriver! ---Also, back in my mental archives, I remember doing an Aeronca gear leg assy with rustoleum clean metal primer and baking it in my wife's oven (don't remember the setting) but that stuff wouldn't come off with anything. Amazing my wife didn't kill me..it sure stunk. Bob B., minor brain damage, mkIII N3851E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: tube prep
Date: Aug 02, 2001
Check it with Poly Tac. Or maybe MEK. Lacquer thinner will not lift rust-o-leum. I took a scrap piece of metal, painted it with rustoleum and let it set for about a week. I then glued a piece of fabric on it with Poly-Tac and let it set for 2 to 3 days. I then pulled on the fabric and it peeled off with very little effort and the paint was blistered. After that I dabbed a little Poly-Tac on the areas of the cage that I had used rustoleum on and the paint immediately blistered and loosened from the tubes. I hope you don't have the same problem. Let the list know how this comes out. Ron Payne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Bean" <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Kolb-List: tube prep > > sanders, welders, filers and grinders....ok, I checked out that > rustoleum > furniture paint. It's been on about a week. I did the old lacquer > thinner > solubility test and it's remarkably resistant. After some rubbing with a > > soaked rag a little color did transfer, but I'm quite satisfied with the > > result. ---thanks for prodding me into it however. Mind you, I'm not > talking about the regular glossy stuff. It sure beats the orig coating > that > easily flaked off the tubes when scraped with the edge of a scewdriver! > ---Also, back in my mental archives, I remember doing an Aeronca > gear leg assy with rustoleum clean metal primer and baking it in my > wife's oven (don't remember the setting) but that stuff wouldn't come > off with anything. Amazing my wife didn't kill me..it sure stunk. > Bob B., minor brain damage, mkIII N3851E > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: UL Parts Supplier
Folks, I'm must be having a mid-life crisis. I looking to develop something to earn a living rather than consulting. Someone once told me you can make a small fortune in the aviation business. just start with a large fortune. I going to try to reverse the process. I've always dreamed of being in the mail order business. I seek your comments as input to determine if you feel there is adequate desire for another UL parts supplier. Based upon the comments I've seen about Airstar Discount's service and yet they've still in business, I should not have any problem doing better than them. My objective would not to be a one stop shopping center, but rather cater to unique, special, or commonly needed products. Example: Good quality inexpensive power switches, wire and cable, maybe strobe lights, pitot, fuel, and pulse tubing, clamps, fuel valves, EIS Systems, Tie down kits, oil by the gallon/case, special tools, etc. I would rather stay out of instruments or engine parts if possible. Would rather carry more unique items and fill in the voids that exist. What about assembling or building kits for individuals or manufacturers? I'm interested in any ideas you may have whether they be aviation, or UL oriented or not. Any product, items, services, reference material, etc. you may think of. Please email your personal comments direct to: Thanks, Jerry Bidle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!!
They do make an emergency relief bag which works well. They have moisture absorbing crystals making them almost spill proof. There a little expensive for frequent single use but can save the day when the old head winds start blowing. They can be stowed almost anywhere until needed. Every boy scout should have one in there UL. > >I think I'll watch YOU blow on that "bitter end." Yuk yuk. Now, >seriously, I had that same problem while driving, up till last Nov. Had to >go frequently, and only a bit at a time, like an ounce or 2. And it had to >be RIGHT NOW ! ! ! Frustrating, aggravating, & uncomfortable. While >travelling, it's not convenient to stop every 15 - 20 minutes, so I worked >out a deal that worked well for a solo driver; not sure about a >pilot............great caution would be necessary. In a 20 oz pepsi bottle, >cut a hole 1/2 way up the side, large enuf to 'dangle' in. Wear warm up >pants with the crotch slit, for easier access. Before you laugh, it doesn't >show when standing, or walking. When 'relieved', empty it into a 1 liter >pepsi bottle - the bigger one with the large mouth, and put the cap on it. >You don't want the one with the hole in the side to tip over...........not >even a little bit. I wasn't going to say anything, but it looks like >solutions are getting graphic, so this's mine...........it works, and with >no tubes, or whatever. First couple of times, it's pretty awkward, then it >smooths out with practice. If any ladies are reading this, and get >offended, please................that's not my intent. I know full well - >only too well - what a tremendous problem this can be, and this solution >works. Uh..........No............Sorry.............No Pictures this >time. Cured Lar. > >Larry Bourne >Palm Springs, Ca. >Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" >http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html >. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "bob n" <ronoy(at)shentel.net> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:47 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! > > > > > > Ron, > > > > This is too easy! Grab an old pc. of most any kinda hollow stuff---like > > a pc of hose. Diameter depends upon yer GPM output, but even small stuff > > works OK 'cause you're gonna, with any luck at all, have a partial > > vacuum (neg pee press) in the overboard line. Next "find" a funnel of > > the correct size--correct is a personal thang. Stick the hose into the > > end of the funnel, or vice versa, according to the respective sizes. > > Drill/punch a hole near the rim of the funnel. Form a hook outa a scrap > > of old bare copper house wiring--other end (called bitter end in the > > Senior Service) you put thru hole in funnel and bend closed. Make a loop > > outa a TyWrap at some convenient place to hang the funnel. Leave enough > > slack in the input end so that it can reach to somewhere near the middle > > of the seat. > > > > Now route the tubing overboard thru a neat hole cut in the belly fabric. > > Good to cement a cloth grommet around hole for chafing protection--and > > chafing is quite painful. Run hose down right gear leg (less splatter > > this way) and secure near axle with a hose clamp. Before tightening the > > clamp, insert one end of a 90 degree elbow in end of hose, AND POINT IT > > AFT--BACKWARDS--TO THE REAR, or you'll be sorry. > > > > Next week I'll tell you how to use it. > > > > Oh, I fergot. As with many things, there are more than one use for this > > device. When working on the brakes, it makes a great interphone. Just > > blow on the proper end when you want the other guy to "pick up." This > > same system was used on many ships--hence the term: Get on the Blower. > > > > > > Bob N. > > > > http://members.nbci,com/ronoyer > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank
> >..I went to the local US Rental a couple of > >weeks ago, and asked about scales, strain gauges, etc. They looked at me > >like I'd grown antlers, or something. Soooo................no scales. > >Sorry guys, but for once, I didn't forget. > > If you stick a post in the ground and bolt a bell crank to it then connect the aircraft to the top end via a chunk of rope and the bottom end pushing on a bathroom scale it should give you an idea what is happening with the thrust. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Gotta Go--Gotta Go--Gotta Go!!!! - Ice
* * * UL PILOT SPECIAL ALERT * * * A special alert has been issued by the FFA warning Ultralight Pilots that flying behind and especially below aircraft operated by Ron Payne may experience unforeseen sporadic rain showers. Numerous reports have been received including the sighting of yellow ice falling to the ground. Much like the unexplained phenomena reported several years ago of falling blue ice, the FFA does not recommend anyone consume the yellow ice. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank
Date: Aug 02, 2001
You know what they say about great minds running in the same circles ?? They shall be known as Big Wheels ! ! ! In all seriousness, at the hotel we have really excellent scales with large faces, and I've been thinking..................about a 3:1 ratio should be about right, and a 2 x 6 on edge should be strong enuf to hold the pressure. If you set it up with the plane hooked 2 ft from the pivot point, and your scale set 6 ft from the other side of the pivot, you'd have your 3:1 ratio, so that a 450 lb pull from the plane - assuming 90 - 100 hp - would give a 150 lb reading on the scale...............just about mid-range, which is just right. Imaginative Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)iname.com> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Tank > > > > > >..I went to the local US Rental a couple of > > >weeks ago, and asked about scales, strain gauges, etc. They looked at me > > >like I'd grown antlers, or something. Soooo................no scales. > > >Sorry guys, but for once, I didn't forget. > > > > > If you stick a post in the ground and bolt a bell crank to it then > connect the aircraft to the top end via a chunk of rope and the bottom end > pushing on a bathroom scale it should give you an idea what is happening > with the thrust. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 2001
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 07/31/01
<<<< Hey Kolbers, Can you combime the ELT antenna with the com antenna with a Y BNC connector ? Rather than having two seperate antenna's. Is this acceptable for FAA inspection ?>>>> to make the answer short NO now for the long answer NOOOOOOO for the realy long answer during transmiting the impedance load for either of the radios would not be corect. in short it would burn up the final power transistors...... use 2 antennas for cheep and easy check out http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html ..... with 1 watt radio i have talked over 120 miles... the signal report i got back was good signal with background noise. there are splitters to run 2 or more recieve only devices on 1 antenna, but not 2 transmit devices.... well i take that back..... but you dont have the space or the weight allowance. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: THRUST TESTER
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Hey Larry and listers, Ordered a 100 lbs. hanging scale(#43045-0ana) and a rope hoist (#36849-0vga) from harbour freight for a total cost of $20.98 The rope hoist should give a ratio of 6:1 on the 100 lbs scale and is easy to hook up to a tree........Let you know the results. Hans van Alphen building Mark III Extra BMW powered. .............about a 3:1 ratio should be about right, and a 2 x >6 on edge should be strong enuf to hold the pressure. If you set it up with >the plane hooked 2 ft from the pivot point, and your scale set 6 ft from the >other side of the pivot, you'd have your 3:1 ratio, so that a 450 lb pull >from the plane - assuming 90 - 100 hp - would give a 150 lb reading on the >scale...............just about mid-range, which is just right. >Imaginative Lar. >> If you stick a post in the ground and bolt a bell crank to it then >> connect the aircraft to the top end via a chunk of rope and the bottom end >> pushing on a bathroom scale it should give you an idea what is happening >> with the thrust. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: test test
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Just a test to see if this list is up and running. Have not seen much Kolb stuff in the last few days. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: THRUST TESTER
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Sounds good from here. Good Luck. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.biglar.homestead.com/larry.html . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: THRUST TESTER > > Hey Larry and listers, > Ordered a 100 lbs. hanging scale(#43045-0ana) and a rope hoist (#36849-0vga) > from harbour freight for a total cost of $20.98 The rope hoist should give a > ratio of 6:1 on the 100 lbs scale and is easy to hook up to a > tree........Let you know the results. > > Hans van Alphen > building Mark III Extra > BMW powered. > > .............about a 3:1 ratio should be about right, and a 2 x > >6 on edge should be strong enuf to hold the pressure. If you set it up > with > >the plane hooked 2 ft from the pivot point, and your scale set 6 ft from > the > >other side of the pivot, you'd have your 3:1 ratio, so that a 450 lb pull > >from the plane - assuming 90 - 100 hp - would give a 150 lb reading on the > >scale...............just about mid-range, which is just right. > >Imaginative Lar. > > > >> If you stick a post in the ground and bolt a bell crank to it then > >> connect the aircraft to the top end via a chunk of rope and the bottom > end > >> pushing on a bathroom scale it should give you an idea what is happening > >> with the thrust. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolb Database
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Just a reminder that I keep a database of over 140 Kolb builder/flyers to anyone who wants a copy or to be included. I may have it on a website as early as next week. Please reply to dama(at)mindspring.com . Kip Laurie Atlanta Firestar II eastatlantaflyers.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thumb" <Bill-Jo(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: test test
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Hi Ron it is up and running. How are you doing? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: Kolb-List: test test > > Just a test to see if this list is up and running. Have not seen much > Kolb stuff in the last few days. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: tube prep
Bob and all There is a two part primer available from your local PPG auto paint store. Quart and a half for 26 bucks plus tax. Saves shipping and hazardous material charges. The color is battleship gray. This is their cheapest two part. Quart of paint and a pint of hardener. This was enough for my Sonerai Fuselage. They also carry some of the aluminum prep elixirs. Alodine,brightners etc. TNK uses PPG poly urethane paints as I recall. BTW; stopped by TNK on Wed. and got word of a new toy that they are planning on building with another co.. Composite fuse and metal wings. A Canadian design called the Pelican. I think that Ultravia Aero Int. has had it in the markplace for some time. Kolb plans to distribute kits in the states and to build the complete plane for the new Sport Pilot class license when it comes to pass. I guess that you fellows who went to Oshkosh saw it?? www.ultravia.ca . Herb Bob Bean wrote: > > Kolbers, cleaning up old , chipped cage tubing... go to a plumbing > supply and buy what is called a "plumber's roll" of sandcloth. get > both 120 and 220. Do a half-wrap and do the shoeshine boy stroke. > It does a great job of clean-up of both mill glaze, that chipped white > stuff originally put on, and surface rust. I'm trying rustoleum's satin > indoor-outdoor spray can furniture paint on the tubes. looks good > so far. It comes in a satin green (zinc chromate look-alike) white, > black, and a funky looking maroon. If you weld near it, it doesn't > blister up and look nasty. ...for what it's worth....BB > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 2001
From: JIMMY HANKINSON <jhankin(at)planters.net>
Subject: Gas tanks
A friend of mine has a Firestar with two five gallon tanks, one placed behind the other. There is a line from both tanks to a "Y" and then to the fuel pump. How can he gets both tanks to empty at the same rate without siphoning one from the other and the front tank not vented. Jimmy Firefly #35, 447 Rotax Rocky Ford, Georgia 30455 Southeast, Georgia JYL -- Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Robinson" <grobinson(at)rcsis.com>
Subject: 1990 Firestar KX
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Hi all, I am new to the list and just recently bought a Firestar (KX I think). At least a portion of it was bought in 1990 and built by 94 or so. I was wondering if anyone had any manuals or documentation that they could copy or fax to me. I have tried "The NEW Kolb Company". They don't have anything that far back. Gary Newbee UL'r ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com>
Subject: www.Kolbpilot.com
Date: Aug 03, 2001
Additional Osh photos have just arrived at www.Kolbpilot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gas tanks
> > >There is a line from both tanks to a "Y" and then to the fuel pump. How >can he gets both tanks to empty at the same rate without siphoning one >from the other and the front tank not vented. Drill a hole in the top of each tank and stick one piece of fuel line in the holes so that it reaches the bottom of each tank This u shaped tube will be a self start siphon that will keep the tanks balanced. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Gas tanks
Date: Aug 04, 2001
For whatever reason your friend does not want to vent the front tank directly, the fact remaines that if you want to empty the fuel from it by gravity at the same rate , you must allow air to enter in the top at the same rate as the rear and you can do this as woody says but keep the lines short to 1'' inside the tank so that the top connection acts like a vent connection equalizing the air pressure. Frank Reynen MKIII/Lotus floats http://www.webcom.com/reynen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)iname.com> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gas tanks > > > > > > > >There is a line from both tanks to a "Y" and then to the fuel pump. How > >can he gets both tanks to empty at the same rate without siphoning one > >from the other and the front tank not vented. > > > Drill a hole in the top of each tank and stick one piece of fuel line > in the holes so that it reaches the bottom of each tank This u shaped tube > will be a self start siphon that will keep the tanks balanced. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Firestar II
Has anybody ever hear of anybody with a 582 on a Firestar? I was wondering if thats what it would take for full lotus floats (DUAL) and a passenger, as long as the Vne wasn't exceeded....or would all that be just to much weight affecting the Va ? Gotta Fly... Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
Subject: Re: Kolb Database
From: Bruce E Harrison <bharrison(at)juno.com>
Please add me to your list. Bruce Harrison, Firestar II, 2000 model from TNK, Rotax 503 DCDCDI, 66" 2-blade Ivoprop, no BRS. Columbia, SC > > Just a reminder that I keep a database of over 140 Kolb > builder/flyers to > anyone who wants a copy or to be included. I may have it on a > website as > early as next week. Please reply to dama(at)mindspring.com . > Kip Laurie > Atlanta > Firestar II > eastatlantaflyers.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 2001
From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
Subject: Re: Gas tanks
> > do this as woody says but keep the lines >short to 1'' inside the tank so that the top connection acts like a vent >connection equalizing the air pressure. >Frank Reynen MKIII/Lotus floats Drop the lines to the bottom of the tank. Do not get a tight seal on the inlet holes ( A vent is needed somewhere in the fuel system or no fuel will flow) and as the fuel is drawn from one tank a low pressure area will be formed in the tube causing the fuel to flow as a siphon and balance out the 2 tanks. The 2 tanks need to have some kind of venting. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "richard swiderski" <swiderskir(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: THRUST TESTER
Date: Jul 23, 2001
Hans, The coefficient of resistance with a 6:1 pulley will be so high that you will not get a realistic value on your reading. The bellcrank idea would be better using a 6:1 ratio to put you in the middle range of the 100lb scale. .> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 7:27 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: THRUST TESTER > > > > > > Hey Larry and listers, > > Ordered a 100 lbs. hanging scale(#43045-0ana) and a rope hoist > (#36849-0vga) > > from harbour freight for a total cost of $20.98 The rope hoist should give > a > > ratio of 6:1 on the 100 lbs scale and is easy to hook up to a > > tree........Let you know the results. > > > > Hans van Alphen > > building Mark III Extra > > BMW powered. > > > > .............about a 3:1 ratio should be about right, and a 2 x > > >6 on edge should be strong enuf to hold the pressure. If you set it up > > with > > >the plane hooked 2 ft from the pivot point, and your scale set 6 ft from > > the > > >other side of the pivot, you'd have your 3:1 ratio, so that a 450 lb pull > > >from the plane - assuming 90 - 100 hp - would give a 150 lb reading on > the > > >scale...............just about mid-range, which is just right. > > >Imaginative Lar. > > > > > > >> If you stick a post in the ground and bolt a bell crank to it then > > >> connect the aircraft to the top end via a chunk of rope and the bottom > > end > > >> pushing on a bathroom scale it should give you an idea what is > happening > > >> with the thrust. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: How are HP and Torque related
I been reading some post on the UL list about engine HP. Due to there being so many opinions I'm confused of what to believe. I know there are a few old timers with solid knowledge of this topic on the Kolb so I seek there wisdom. Question: 1. Where is the rated HP measured of a Rotax engine - crank shaft or output flange of a redrive gearbox? 2. When a redrive is used example 2:1 (gear box out is 1/2 RPM of the engine crank) Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? 3. If you put a 2:1 redrive on say a 4-cylinder VW - Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? 4. This has to due with EGT temps and prop load on an engine - If EGT are low does the engine need more or less prop load - note I under stand other things impact EGT temps, so does prop load Dennis had a saying that went some what to the effect of Grass green side down, it also had to other items of which one was prop pitch as it related to engine EGT temps, any one have a copy of it - jerryb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)BCChapel.org>
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
Assuming a healthy, correctly jetted engine, EGT's will normally go too high when prop load is insufficient, and may go too low when prop load is too great. There is more detail on the web page http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >4. This has to due with EGT temps and prop load on an engine - >If EGT are low does the engine need more or less prop load - >note I under stand other things impact EGT temps, so does prop load > >jerryb > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Thread-Topic: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins Thread-Index: AcEdwLdjRrJQJWl0SA68S3O0I+cdTw==
From: "Waligroski, Gregg" <Gregg.Waligroski(at)pantellos.com>
R2V0dGluZyBteSBGaXJlc3RhciByZWFkeSBmb3IgZmxpZ2h0IGFnYWluIEkgaG9wZS4gIERvaW5n IHNvbWUNCm1haW50ZW5hbmNlIGFuZCBoYXZlIGEgZmV3IHF1ZXN0aW9ucy4NCiANCk15ICJ3aGlz a2V5IiBjb21wYXNzIGhhcyBkcmFpbmVkIGRvd24gb3ZlciB0aW1lIHNvIHRoZSBjb21wYXNzIG5v IGxvbmdlcg0KZmxvYXRzLiAgT3RoZXIgdGhhbiB1c2luZyBKRCB3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0 IGZsdWlkIG9yIGFjY2VwdGFibGUNCmZsdWlkcyB0byB1c2UgdG8gcmVmaWxsIG15IGNvbXBhc3M/ DQogDQpJIHdhbnQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSBhbGwgNiBvZiBteSB3aW5nIGFuZCBzdHJ1dCBhdHRhY2ht ZW50IHBpbnMgYW5kIGNhbid0DQpmaW5kIG15IEtvbGIgcGxhbnMgc2luY2UgdGhlIG1vdmUgdG8g SG91c3Rvbi4gIFdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIGNvcnJlY3QNCk1TeHh4eHggbnVtYmVyIGZvciB0aGUgY2xl dmlzIHBpbiB0eXBlPyAgSXMgdGhlIGVhc2llc3QgdGhpbmcganVzdCB0bw0Kb3JkZXIgZnJvbSB0 aGUgS29sYiBGYWN0b3J5IG9yIGRvZXMgYW55b25lIGtub3cgb2YgYSBnb29kIEhvdXN0b24gYXJl YQ0KTVMgcGFydHMgc3RvcmU/DQogDQpJIGFtIGRvaW5nIHRvdWNoIHVwIHBhaW50aW5nIHRvIG5p Y2tzIG9uIHRoZSBjYWdlIGZyYW1lIGFuZCBvdGhlcg0KZXhwb3NlZCBzdGVlbCBwYXJ0cywgd2hh dCBpcyB0aGUgdG91Y2ggdXAgcGFpbnQgb2YgY2hvaWNlPyAgUnVzdG9sZXVtPw0KIA0KR3JlZ2cg V2FsaWdyb3NraQ0KSG91c3Rvbg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins
"Waligroski, Gregg" wrote: > > > R2V0dGluZyBteSBGaXJlc3RhciByZWFkeSBmb3IgZmxpZ2h0IGFnYWluIEkgaG9wZS4gIERvaW5n > IHNvbWUNCm1haW50ZW5hbmNlIGFuZCBoYXZlIGEgZmV3IHF1ZXN0aW9ucy4NCiANCk15ICJ3aGlz > a2V5IiBjb21wYXNzIGhhcyBkcmFpbmVkIGRvd24gb3ZlciB0aW1lIHNvIHRoZSBjb21wYXNzIG5v > IGxvbmdlcg0KZmxvYXRzLiAgT3RoZXIgdGhhbiB1c2luZyBKRCB3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0 > IGZsdWlkIG9yIGFjY2VwdGFibGUNCmZsdWlkcyB0byB1c2UgdG8gcmVmaWxsIG15IGNvbXBhc3M/ > DQogDQpJIHdhbnQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSBhbGwgNiBvZiBteSB3aW5nIGFuZCBzdHJ1dCBhdHRhY2ht > ZW50IHBpbnMgYW5kIGNhbid0DQpmaW5kIG15IEtvbGIgcGxhbnMgc2luY2UgdGhlIG1vdmUgdG8g > SG91c3Rvbi4gIFdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIGNvcnJlY3QNCk1TeHh4eHggbnVtYmVyIGZvciB0aGUgY2xl > dmlzIHBpbiB0eXBlPyAgSXMgdGhlIGVhc2llc3QgdGhpbmcganVzdCB0bw0Kb3JkZXIgZnJvbSB0 > aGUgS29sYiBGYWN0b3J5IG9yIGRvZXMgYW55b25lIGtub3cgb2YgYSBnb29kIEhvdXN0b24gYXJl > YQ0KTVMgcGFydHMgc3RvcmU/DQogDQpJIGFtIGRvaW5nIHRvdWNoIHVwIHBhaW50aW5nIHRvIG5p > Y2tzIG9uIHRoZSBjYWdlIGZyYW1lIGFuZCBvdGhlcg0KZXhwb3NlZCBzdGVlbCBwYXJ0cywgd2hh > dCBpcyB0aGUgdG91Y2ggdXAgcGFpbnQgb2YgY2hvaWNlPyAgUnVzdG9sZXVtPw0KIA0KR3JlZ2cg > V2FsaWdyb3NraQ0KSG91c3Rvbg0K > Sorry, wrong language for this planet ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins - REPOST
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Thread-Topic: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins Thread-Index: AcEdwLdjRrJQJWl0SA68S3O0I+cdTwAHOkpg
From: "Waligroski, Gregg" <Gregg.Waligroski(at)pantellos.com>
SSByZWNlaXZlZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgdGhhdCBteSBvcmlnaW5hbCBwb3N0IG1heSBoYXZlIGdvbmUg YmFkIHNvIEkgaGF2ZQ0KcG9zdGVkIGl0IGFnYWluLiAgU29ycnkgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3QgaWYgdGhp cyBpcyBhIHJlcGVhdC4uLg0KDQoNCkdldHRpbmcgbXkgRmlyZXN0YXIgcmVhZHkgZm9yIGZsaWdo dCBhZ2FpbiBJIGhvcGUuICBEb2luZyBzb21lDQptYWludGVuYW5jZSBhbmQgaGF2ZSBhIGZldyBx dWVzdGlvbnMuDQogDQpNeSAid2hpc2tleSIgY29tcGFzcyBoYXMgZHJhaW5lZCBkb3duIG92ZXIg dGltZSBzbyB0aGUgY29tcGFzcyBubyBsb25nZXINCmZsb2F0cy4gIE90aGVyIHRoYW4gdXNpbmcg SkQgd2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgY29ycmVjdCBmbHVpZCBvciBhY2NlcHRhYmxlDQpmbHVpZHMgdG8gdXNl IHRvIHJlZmlsbCBteSBjb21wYXNzPw0KIA0KSSB3YW50IHRvIHJlcGxhY2UgYWxsIDYgb2YgbXkg d2luZyBhbmQgc3RydXQgYXR0YWNobWVudCBwaW5zIGFuZCBjYW4ndA0KZmluZCBteSBLb2xiIHBs YW5zIHNpbmNlIHRoZSBtb3ZlIHRvIEhvdXN0b24uICBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0DQpNU3h4 eHh4IG51bWJlciBmb3IgdGhlIGNsZXZpcyBwaW4gdHlwZT8gIElzIHRoZSBlYXNpZXN0IHRoaW5n IGp1c3QgdG8NCm9yZGVyIGZyb20gdGhlIEtvbGIgRmFjdG9yeSBvciBkb2VzIGFueW9uZSBrbm93 IG9mIGEgZ29vZCBIb3VzdG9uIGFyZWENCk1TIHBhcnRzIHN0b3JlPw0KIA0KSSBhbSBkb2luZyB0 b3VjaCB1cCBwYWludGluZyB0byBuaWNrcyBvbiB0aGUgY2FnZSBmcmFtZSBhbmQgb3RoZXINCmV4 cG9zZWQgc3RlZWwgcGFydHMsIHdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIHRvdWNoIHVwIHBhaW50IG9mIGNob2ljZT8g IFJ1c3RvbGV1bT8NCiANCkdyZWdnIFdhbGlncm9za2kNCkhvdXN0b24NCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins - REPOST
hey, Gregg--yer repost makes everything....can't find the word, but it ain't Clear! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Subject: Some Questions ...
From: Neil Gillies <neil@sea-gull.demon.co.uk>
Hi I'm new to the list, and have been sitting on the sidelines for a few days - just watching :-) I'm hoping someone can answer a couple of questions for me ... 1 I'm seriously considering buying a Kolb Slingshot or similar, and wondered if anyone here in Scotland/UK owns one - are they even legal "over here" ? 2 Are there any reviews available on line for the Slingshot? 3 I couldn't find an FAQ anywhere - is there one? 4 While I ponder the purchase, it would be fun to try a virtual flight, but I couldn't find a model for x-plane - anyone know of one? If not, are there any 3-views (dimensional) and some flight data available for the range of Kolb A/C, so I can roll my own? TIA Best regards Neil NKY - No Kolb Yet =;-) Neil D. Gillies Tel: +44 (0)1383-823489 SeaGull Technologies Fax: +44 (0)870-0543622 11 River View Mobile: +44 (0)771-4330793 Dalgety Bay, Fife neil@sea-gull.demon.co.uk Scotland KY11 9YE http://www.sea-gull.demon.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Beauford Tuton" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Brother Pike... IMHO, your web page is a masterpiece of clearly stated, concise 2-cycle wisdom...(a scarce commodity...) As far as I am concerned, a printed copy of same ought to be included in the box of every Rotax double banger shipped. You, Sir, have performed a great service to we 2-cycle duffers out here who are trying to make these things run consistently... I, for one, am most grateful. Now, having said that, what do I do if after 8 hours since new, my back plug is covered with hard, baked on crud, while the front one looks like one of the too-hot, too-lean gray ones in the lower left corner of the plug photos...? I have squared up the carb on the low-time engine (447) very carefully... the CDI ignition is timed... the compression is equal between the two cylinders... What precise effect does tilting the Bing slightly have on the distribution of fuel between the two... can slight tilting be used as a means of balancing the flow? If so, which way? Sigh... Your Humble Student, Beauford (still soaking in Seafoam) of Brandon FF#076 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How are HP and Torque related > > http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2001
Subject: Re: WANTED: FRESH FIRESTAR I/II
A gentleman at our field is looking to buy a Firestar I/II. It should be a late model, low time [less than 100 hours], well built craft. Should have a 503 DCDI, and be within 500 miles of SC. Electric start, brakes, & Warp Drive prop would be a plus. Email me off list. Howard Shackleford FS I SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: Herb Gearheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: WANTED: FRESH FIRESTAR I/II
Gang I am looking for a rebuildable Kolb or an unfinished kit. Herb in Ky HShack(at)aol.com wrote: > > A gentleman at our field is looking to buy a Firestar I/II. It should be a > late model, low time [less than 100 hours], well built craft. Should have a > 503 DCDI, and be within 500 miles of SC. > > Electric start, brakes, & Warp Drive prop would be a plus. > > Email me off list. > > Howard Shackleford > FS I > SC > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 2001
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Compass Refill? Wing and Strut pins -
REPOST "Waligroski, Gregg" This is a reply to your second post. As you can see it no better than the first. When encoding are you using or do you have encryption enabled? jerryb > > >SSByZWNlaXZlZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgdGhhdCBteSBvcmlnaW5hbCBwb3N0IG1heSBoYXZlIGdvbmUg >YmFkIHNvIEkgaGF2ZQ0KcG9zdGVkIGl0IGFnYWluLiAgU29ycnkgdG8gdGhlIGxpc3QgaWYgdGhp >cyBpcyBhIHJlcGVhdC4uLg0KDQoNCkdldHRpbmcgbXkgRmlyZXN0YXIgcmVhZHkgZm9yIGZsaWdo >dCBhZ2FpbiBJIGhvcGUuICBEb2luZyBzb21lDQptYWludGVuYW5jZSBhbmQgaGF2ZSBhIGZldyBx >dWVzdGlvbnMuDQogDQpNeSAid2hpc2tleSIgY29tcGFzcyBoYXMgZHJhaW5lZCBkb3duIG92ZXIg >dGltZSBzbyB0aGUgY29tcGFzcyBubyBsb25nZXINCmZsb2F0cy4gIE90aGVyIHRoYW4gdXNpbmcg >SkQgd2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgY29ycmVjdCBmbHVpZCBvciBhY2NlcHRhYmxlDQpmbHVpZHMgdG8gdXNl >IHRvIHJlZmlsbCBteSBjb21wYXNzPw0KIA0KSSB3YW50IHRvIHJlcGxhY2UgYWxsIDYgb2YgbXkg >d2luZyBhbmQgc3RydXQgYXR0YWNobWVudCBwaW5zIGFuZCBjYW4ndA0KZmluZCBteSBLb2xiIHBs >YW5zIHNpbmNlIHRoZSBtb3ZlIHRvIEhvdXN0b24uICBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0DQpNU3h4 >eHh4IG51bWJlciBmb3IgdGhlIGNsZXZpcyBwaW4gdHlwZT8gIElzIHRoZSBlYXNpZXN0IHRoaW5n >IGp1c3QgdG8NCm9yZGVyIGZyb20gdGhlIEtvbGIgRmFjdG9yeSBvciBkb2VzIGFueW9uZSBrbm93 >IG9mIGEgZ29vZCBIb3VzdG9uIGFyZWENCk1TIHBhcnRzIHN0b3JlPw0KIA0KSSBhbSBkb2luZyB0 >b3VjaCB1cCBwYWludGluZyB0byBuaWNrcyBvbiB0aGUgY2FnZSBmcmFtZSBhbmQgb3RoZXINCmV4 >cG9zZWQgc3RlZWwgcGFydHMsIHdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIHRvdWNoIHVwIHBhaW50IG9mIGNob2ljZT8g >IFJ1c3RvbGV1bT8NCiANCkdyZWdnIFdhbGlncm9za2kNCkhvdXN0b24NCg0K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
Date: Aug 06, 2001
Haven't seen any replies to this...............c'mon you guys, help the guy out ! ! ! The only part I'm fairly sure about, is part of the re-drive question. As I understand it, using a 2:1 re-drive will give you twice the torque - less friction losses - at 1/2 the prop rpm. Lets you swing a bigger, slower prop, which is more suited to our type of plane. Small, fast, direct drive props belong on small, fast planes. Not sure how this affects horsepower - I think it stays the same - but the torque is what turns the prop, & drives the plane. GoGittum Lar................................zero-ing in on engine start with my mighty ( I hope ) VW with re-drive. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" http://www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerryb" <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Kolb-List: How are HP and Torque related > > I been reading some post on the UL list about engine HP. Due to there > being so many opinions I'm confused of what to believe. I know there are a > few old timers with solid knowledge of this topic on the Kolb so I seek > there wisdom. > > Question: > 1. Where is the rated HP measured of a Rotax engine - crank shaft or > output flange of a redrive gearbox? > > 2. When a redrive is used example 2:1 (gear box out is 1/2 RPM of the > engine crank) > Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? > Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? > > 3. If you put a 2:1 redrive on say a 4-cylinder VW - > Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? > Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? > > 4. This has to due with EGT temps and prop load on an engine - > If EGT are low does the engine need more or less prop load - > note I under stand other things impact EGT temps, so does prop load > > Dennis had a saying that went some what to the effect of Grass green side > down, > it also had to other items of which one was prop pitch as it related to > engine EGT temps, any one have a copy of it - > > jerryb > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
Date: Aug 06, 2001
What would cause a difference of 100-150 degrees between front and rear EGT? Jim Mark III Charlotte, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)BCChapel.org> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How are HP and Torque related > > Assuming a healthy, correctly jetted engine, EGT's will normally go too > high when prop load is insufficient, and may go too low when prop load is > too great. > There is more detail on the web page > http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > >4. This has to due with EGT temps and prop load on an engine - > >If EGT are low does the engine need more or less prop load - > >note I under stand other things impact EGT temps, so does prop load > > > >jerryb > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Davis" <ldavis(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
Date: Aug 06, 2001
Try this for a simple explanation: A 2-to-1 redrive reduces the RPM by two and doubles the torque. Since horsepower is work times speed, the redrive causes the torque to double but at half the speed. Therefore, horsepower stays the same. "You can't get something for nothing." Actually, since the redrive has friction losses, there's a little loss in horsepower. Larry Davis http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/airplane.html ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 2:23 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: How are HP and Torque related > > Haven't seen any replies to this...............c'mon you guys, help the guy > out ! ! ! The only part I'm fairly sure about, is part of the re-drive > question. As I understand it, using a 2:1 re-drive will give you twice the > torque - less friction losses - at 1/2 the prop rpm. Lets you swing a > bigger, slower prop, which is more suited to our type of plane. Small, > fast, direct drive props belong on small, fast planes. Not sure how this > affects horsepower - I think it stays the same - but the torque is what > turns the prop, & drives the plane. > GoGittum Lar................................zero-ing in > on engine start with my mighty ( I hope ) VW with re-drive. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, Ca. > Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" > http://www.gogittum.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jerryb" <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> > To: "Kolb-List" > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 10:46 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: How are HP and Torque related > > > > > > I been reading some post on the UL list about engine HP. Due to there > > being so many opinions I'm confused of what to believe. I know there are a > > few old timers with solid knowledge of this topic on the Kolb so I seek > > there wisdom. > > > > Question: > > 1. Where is the rated HP measured of a Rotax engine - crank shaft or > > output flange of a redrive gearbox? > > > > 2. When a redrive is used example 2:1 (gear box out is 1/2 RPM of the > > engine crank) > > Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? > > Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? > > > > 3. If you put a 2:1 redrive on say a 4-cylinder VW - > > Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? > > Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? > > > > 4. This has to due with EGT temps and prop load on an engine - > > If EGT are low does the engine need more or less prop load - > > note I under stand other things impact EGT temps, so does prop load > > > > Dennis had a saying that went some what to the effect of Grass green side > > down, > > it also had to other items of which one was prop pitch as it related to > > engine EGT temps, any one have a copy of it - > > > > jerryb > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Whiskey Compass question Repost Repost
Date: Aug 06, 2001
Thread-Topic: Whiskey Compass question Repost Repost Thread-Index: AcEectwXvwNAEdTeSTGYaaPLg6qp6w==
From: "Waligroski, Gregg" <Gregg.Waligroski(at)pantellos.com>
I received a message that my original post and repost have gone bad so I have posted it yet again. Sorry to the for yet another repeat... Getting my Firestar ready for flight again I hope. Doing some maintenance and have a few questions. My "whiskey" compass has drained down over time so the compass no longer floats. Other than using JD what is the correct fluid or acceptable fluids to use to refill my compass? I want to replace all 6 of my wing and strut attachment pins and can't find my Kolb plans since the move to Houston. What is the correct MSxxxxx number for the clevis pin type? Is the easiest thing just to order from the Kolb Factory or does anyone know of a good Houston area MS parts store? Gregg Waligroski Houston, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2001
Subject: Re: How are HP and Torque related
In a message dated 8/6/01 3:30:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, biglar(at)gogittum.com writes: > > > > I been reading some post on the UL list about engine HP. Due to there > > being so many opinions I'm confused of what to believe. I know there are a > > few old timers with solid knowledge of this topic on the Kolb so I seek > > there wisdom. > Horsepower is always Torque X Speed X a constant, therefore..... > > > Question: > > 1. Where is the rated HP measured of a Rotax engine - crank shaft or > > output flange of a redrive gearbox? > > This is a good question....GR > > 2. When a redrive is used example 2:1 (gear box out is 1/2 RPM of the > > engine crank) > > Does the HP remain the same or is it doubled at the redrive output shaft? > > Does the torque remain the same or is it doubled at redrive output shaft? >


July 25, 2001 - August 06, 2001

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