Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-dn
March 25, 2002 - April 20, 2002
Tried twice to answer you, Mr. Herren, but it won't go thru. Don't know
what the problem is, but my post was smart-ass anyway, so you didn't
miss much. Guess your problem hasn't gone away yet.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN M. COOLEY" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Kolb switch |
Duane,
Does the switch your talking about have a silver rocker arm lever on it.
I have a 1994 model Firestar that I finished last year and used a prewired
harness on that had switches with it. I think the switches I have left over
were supposed to be used as mag switches. I this sounds like what you need,
I'll be glad to send you one or both.
Later,
John Cooley
Firestar II #1162
---- Original Message -----
From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Looking for Kolb switch
>
>
> I am now trying to finish up with my MK3 electrical system and have run i> nto
a small problem. I made a spiffy little panel that fits right over th> e rudder
cable fairleads located between the seats at the front of the ai> leron control
tube. One switch has been mounted in the panel and I now fi> nd that I don't
have one like it to mount on the other half of the panel.> The switch I
need is a low profile, 3 amp toggle switch with wires comin> g out of it. They
used to be supplied as standard equipment in Old Kolb k> its but I can't find
them anywhere in my area. I have tried Radio Shack a> nd the local auto parts
stores with no luck. They may no longer be in pro> duction. If any of you builders
have one in your spare parts stash I will> be pleased to pay for the part
and postage.
>
> I will try New Kolb in the morning but I'm afraid they won't have them.
>
> Duane Mitchell
> 6551 Crooked Creek Rd
> Tallahassee, FL 32311
> (850) 878-9047
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: H MITCHELL
> To: kolblist
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F
>
>
> Channel 4, Sub 4 it is. Count me in. Have truck/can travel, let me know h>
> ow I can help.
>
> Duane the Plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly 447 / Mk3 Classic 912
> From: John Hauck
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F
>
>
> SGreenpg(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/24/02 9:17:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > swiderski@advanced-connect.net writes:
> >
> > >
> > > You all are welcome to have the cookout at my trailer. If anyone>
> needs
> > > to get hold of me there, I am usually not around base camp much unti>
> l
> > > early evening as there's soooo much to see, so we need a plan. Cell>
> ph.
> > > #'s might be a big help, or maybe an agreed upon channel on those lit>
> tle
> > > radios (I always wanted one of those anyway). I'm open to ideas.
> > > Time to start planning!
> > > ...Richard Swiderski
> > >
> >
> > Richard,
> > If the offer is still good let's plan on having the cook out at your tr>
> ailer
> > Sunday evening. Maybe we could leave a signup sheet at you trailer to>
> get
> > an idea of how many to plan for, then about 4:00 pm we go to the store
> and
> > buy the fix-ins and just divide the cost. Should we start cooking abou>
> t 6:30
> > pm?
> >
> > What do you think about inviting the Kolb factory folks for a meal on u>
> s?
> > Jim and Dondi too!
> >
> > Steven Green
>
> Steven/Richard/Gents/
>
> Think the above is a good idea.
>
> Keep in mind, evening flight period will not be over until
> sundown or a little earlier. Based on the last few years,
> if it is not windy, the powered parachutes will get the last
> flight period, so, the fixed wing ultralights and
> lightplanes will probably be finished up around 7:00 PM.
>
> I also recommend the Kolb crew and the Millers be invited.
>
> Getting excited about getting together with the Kolb List at
> Lakeland. Only two weeks from today. Hope we a blessed
> with good weather for the entire week.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest |
About 20 years ago I took my new Weedhopper to the local village airport
after asking permission (obviously the wrong person). I had the plane
partly assembled when the police showed up to escort me off the
property. I was told to hurry up and get out or I would be arrested for
trespassing. A few days later I stopped at the airport to discuss the
issue with the airport manager. The manager said that those slow planes
wouldn't mix well in the pattern. This is a small uncontrolled airport
with maybe 20 takeoffs and landings on a good day. The local pilots
hanging around the FBO said any $@$#@$...ultralight that lands at their
airport would be greeted with a prop blast just for them.
I ended up getting my pilots license at that airport and things have
improved a bit but ultalights are still discouraged form using the
airport. Be careful out there, there are still a few places were
ultalights aren't treated very well.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIII
>>> h2opilot(at)cwo.com 03/23/02 12:32PM >>>
Ralph,
I don't understand. To my knowledge there is nothing in the Federal
Aviation Regulations nor in the Sport Pilot proposal that prohibits
ANY
aircraft from operations at any public use airport. True, there may be
specific requirements, such as contacting the control tower before
entering Class D airspace, and there may be special procedures for
different kinds of flying machines such as helicopters and
ultralights.
And I agree it may not be safe to mix "very slow traffic" with "very
fast traffic" in the same pattern at an airport. You wrote, "Under
Sport
Pilot we ALL will be 'aircraft'...." FAR definition from Subchapter
A,
Part 1, Section 1.1: "Aircraft means a device that us used or
intended
to be used for flight in the air." The FAR's also say, "Pilot in
command
means the person who: (1) Has final authority and responsibility for
the
operation and safety of the flight...." So by those formal definitions
you and I are both pilots flying aircraft, you in your Firestar and me
in my certified general aviation light plane. And we probably both
enjoy
flight for the same reasons; to experience the magic.
I have been a GA pilot for nearly 50 years and recently landed at a
small airport in Southern Oregon where there is a lot of ultralight
activity. I was amazed at the perceived conflict the UL pilots had
with
the GA pilots. The UL pilots seemed to think the GA pilots looked down
on them, and had developed what I can best describe as "outlaw
defensive" attitudes....some of which is expressed on this site. The
perception is false. We're all pilots and we're all operating
aircraft.
And most of us fly for the same reasons whether we fly "very slow
ultralights" or "very fast aircraft". You're welcome to fly into my
home
airport any time....and I'll make room for you in the pattern.
Gene Vickery
Tehachapi, California
Hi Vic and others,
By limiting the weight to 330 lbs, it would keep many fat ul's that
would
be too slow for landing patterns out of the airports. Under Sport
Pilot,
ALL aircraft (fixed-wings, trikes, and ppc's) over 254 lbs will be
allowed into airports where they are NOT welcome. The 330 lb limit was
chosen as a very modest increase in weight that will allow the FAA to
look at it more favorably and accomplish our goal of complete
separation
between very slow ultralights and very fast aircraft.
Not a good idea to mix the very slow and the very fast aircraft at an
airport.
Under Sport Pilot we ALL will be 'aircraft' and if this is what the
flying public wants, this is what the flying public is going to get!
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
(even faster than most)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Bug Bait Lar at SnF |
Big Lar wrote:
<>
Hey, Big Lar -
Easy solution: Eat more garlic.
We'll still put up with ya!
do not arichive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bug Bait Lar at SnF |
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but really..........the garlic didn't
help. Even my girlfriend at the time complained. In all serious-ness,
the mosquitoes weren't too much of a problem...........weren't that many in
most parts of the woods I worked in, anyway, and most repellents would run
them off. The ones that really gave me fits were the no-see-ums, and those
miserable, horrible, black flies. As long as the power saw was running, it
was fine...............fumes kept them away, but as soon as I shut down to
fuel up, or file the chain...........look out. It would look like someone
sprinkled pepper on my arms...........damned things would be SWIMMING in the
repellent/sweat on my forearms..............I think a lot of them actually
drowned. There'd be a shimmering cloud of them in front of my
eyes..............drove me nuts, and every single one has jaws full of
vinegar. Later part of summer the hollow trees, and open ground would be
full of yellow jackets, and when it started cooling off in Sept., they'd get
even meaner. And of course, the much beloved, and appreciated horse flies
and deer flies. Nice fellas. I much preferred falling timber in the
winter, at around 0 deg. to 5 or 10 below, F. You could work hard without
sweating, ( I sweat heavier than anyone else I've seen, too.) it was
clean.......no mud, no bugs, etc., etc. 'Nuff a this, it's been fun, but
it sure isn't Kolb related. Gogittum Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Kolb-List: Bug Bait Lar at SnF
>
> Big Lar wrote:
>
> < few fortunate people who, if there are a million people packed into a
square
> mile, and 1 mosquito is turned loose............it'll come straight to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Currie <bnb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F |
I think inviting Jim and Dondi is a great idea- kolb folks to. I have a smal FM
walk abot that only lists 4 chanels. Will the 4th chanel for Kolb work
and----where is the trailer for the cook out. Can we bring stuff and what may
be needed?. I watch the list every day and have learned alot. Building a FSII
and looking forward to visiting with people. Could an info sheet be posted at
the Kolb Display??? Bob Currie Hollywood MD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F |
> I think inviting Jim and Dondi is a great idea- kolb folks to. Bob Currie
Hollywood MD.
Gang:
Jim and Dondi have been invited to the Kolb List Gormet or
is that gromet (hehehe) Cookout at Paradise City trailer
parking lot south edge of the UL Campground.
Still have to make contact with the Kolb crew at London.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for Kolb switch |
Thanks John but I found my switches. I too had some left over from one of my planes
but had lost track of them. They were in fluorescent light fixtures I had
modified during a Honey-do rampage by my sweet wife. Easily replaced by parts
more common.
Duane
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN M. COOLEY
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Looking for Kolb switch
Duane,
Does the switch your talking about have a silver rocker arm lever on it.
I have a 1994 model Firestar that I finished last year and used a prewired
harness on that had switches with it. I think the switches I have left over
were supposed to be used as mag switches. I this sounds like what you need,
I'll be glad to send you one or both.
Later,
John Cooley
Firestar II #1162
---- Original Message -----
From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Looking for Kolb switch
>
>
> I am now trying to finish up with my MK3 electrical system and have run i
> nto a small problem. I made a spiffy little panel that fits right over
th
> e rudder cable fairleads located between the seats at the front of the
ai
> leron control tube. One switch has been mounted in the panel and I now
fi
> nd that I don't have one like it to mount on the other half of the panel.
> The switch I need is a low profile, 3 amp toggle switch with wires comin
> g out of it. They used to be supplied as standard equipment in Old Kolb k
> its but I can't find them anywhere in my area. I have tried Radio Shack a
> nd the local auto parts stores with no luck. They may no longer be in pro
> duction. If any of you builders have one in your spare parts stash I will
> be pleased to pay for the part and postage.
>
> I will try New Kolb in the morning but I'm afraid they won't have them.
>
> Duane Mitchell
> 6551 Crooked Creek Rd
> Tallahassee, FL 32311
> (850) 878-9047
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: H MITCHELL
> To: kolblist
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F
>
>
> Channel 4, Sub 4 it is. Count me in. Have truck/can travel, let me know h
>
> ow I can help.
>
> Duane the Plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly 447 / Mk3 Classic 912
> From: John Hauck
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F
>
>
> SGreenpg(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/24/02 9:17:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > swiderski@advanced-connect.net writes:
> >
> > >
> > > You all are welcome to have the cookout at my trailer. If anyone
>
> needs
> > > to get hold of me there, I am usually not around base camp much unti
>
> l
> > > early evening as there's soooo much to see, so we need a plan. Cell
>
> ph.
> > > #'s might be a big help, or maybe an agreed upon channel on those lit
>
> tle
> > > radios (I always wanted one of those anyway). I'm open to ideas.
> > > Time to start planning!
> > > ...Richard Swiderski
> > >
> >
> > Richard,
> > If the offer is still good let's plan on having the cook out at your
tr
>
> ailer
> > Sunday evening. Maybe we could leave a signup sheet at you trailer
to
>
> get
> > an idea of how many to plan for, then about 4:00 pm we go to the store
> and
> > buy the fix-ins and just divide the cost. Should we start cooking abou
>
> t 6:30
> > pm?
> >
> > What do you think about inviting the Kolb factory folks for a meal on u
>
> s?
> > Jim and Dondi too!
> >
> > Steven Green
>
> Steven/Richard/Gents/
>
> Think the above is a good idea.
>
> Keep in mind, evening flight period will not be over until
> sundown or a little earlier. Based on the last few years,
> if it is not windy, the powered parachutes will get the last
> flight period, so, the fixed wing ultralights and
> lightplanes will probably be finished up around 7:00 PM.
>
> I also recommend the Kolb crew and the Millers be invited.
>
> Getting excited about getting together with the Kolb List at
> Lakeland. Only two weeks from today. Hope we a blessed
> with good weather for the entire week.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bug Bait Lar at SnF |
Lar,
Skeeters are attracted to carbon dioxide, just hold your breath and you'll
be OK.
jerryb
>
>
>Big Lar wrote:
>
><few fortunate people who, if there are a million people packed into a square
>mile, and 1 mosquito is turned loose............it'll come straight to me.
>Guaranteed ! ! ! My neighbors laugh about it when the gnats come out in the
>evening. Everyone else enjoying a quiet conversation, and I hafta
>leave...........there'll be clouds of the awful things chewing on me.
>Bug Bait Lar. >>
>
>Hey, Big Lar -
>Easy solution: Eat more garlic.
>We'll still put up with ya!
>do not arichive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <wecounselman3(at)yahoo.com> |
You make some very good points. Doesn't part 103 exist
because the FAA was UNABLE to properly regulate the
airlines and GA, and did not want the burden of
thousands of "Air Recreational Vehicles" (stupid
phrase)? And now FAA wants to bring everything under
regulation with the carrot of no medical exam and
lowered training standards.
I actually think the requirement for a medical made me
handle a long standing blood pressure problem and,
maybe, extended my life. I will know next week if I
get the student license back. I don't forsee a
problem.
Training is expensive. And I do agree you can
substitute current experience to a large degree. But,
since GA pilots carry passengers and travel through
controlled airspace, they are required by law to get
that expensive training. Do ultralight pilots need
that? Probably not if you fly off grass and avoid
controlled or busy GA airports. I would have to say
that if you are going to mix it up with the big guys
you should know all the regs and have current
experience too. IMHO.
I think you are right about there being no safety
benefit here. Letting very slow aircraft mix with
faster ones will not enhance safety. I think this reg
is aimed more at increasing commerce.
I am unsure just what a sport pilot is. I am thinking
it is the "fat" ultralight pilot who's plane is too
fast and heavy to fit into part 103. He/She does not
fly into class charlie but, since the plane has actual
utility, wants to fly cross country, maybe with a
passenger, land on GA airports, and go at >55 kts with
>5 gal gas. Since this activity is similar to driving
or boating, no medical should be required. Simpler
aircraft and systems and lower, more limited flight
envelope, with a slower landing speed, means less
training time should be needed- how much less I don't
know.
I don't know if this is the proper set of regs but
it's good to see talk and comment. When the dust
settles I sure hope part 103 is, essentially,
unchanged, weight increase or not. I think the biggest
problem here might be letting 2-stroke aircraft fly
over congested areas, not that it isn't done already,
but not on the scale we are talking about here.
> We understand that there is a need for the Sport
> Pilot
> Program. Most comments from the General Aviation
> Community, especially the older pilots have been
> positive and supportive. We just believe that this
> program will not work to the benefit of the
> Ultralighting community, and
> could easily reduce the numbers of Ultralight Pilots
> to the point of
> ending all Ultralighting.
=====
http://movies.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
You may want to try my method of pest control. not showering will keep away
the normal too many women hanging on you pest. but --- I take a paper towel
in a zip baggy and put deet in it. You may want to add water or a little
alcohol in it to keep it moist or even help deet along. the alcohol by the
way is what keeps the skeeters off. it makes your skin cold to their eyes
and they cant see you for a long time. you just keep it in your pocket and
then wipe it on when you feel you need it. puts limited amount on where you
want it when you want it without the oily feeling and the oil that runs into
your eyes that you get from straight deet and sweat. seems to last about a
week or so. ted cowan, alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
I kinda got the feeling that sp is going to put a big damper on our fun and
is going to ultimately hurt and destroy a good part of our industry. ppc at
any location can be a hazard, even to theirselves. most of the ppc I have
seen are the craziest bunch of yahoos without the slightest clue of what they
are doing and where they are doing it. do they get to have instructions in
their ppc or do they have to use pipers to train too, who wrote that, larry
moe and currly?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 03/25/02 |
I'm hoping to still fly my MK3 from Albany NY to Sun & Fun this coming
weekend but I decided not to try it with my 23 gal gas tank leaking. It is
out of the plane now, being pressure tested, and welded. Hopefully it will be
done and I can get everything back together Saturday. Kind of thought that
if it leaked a little, it wasn't really going to fix itself and get better
during the 40 hr. flight ?
Usually after Kolb gatherings someone mentions that next time we need to
wear name tags. Are we planning to wear them at S&F ? If for some reason the
plane isn't ready, I'll still be there by way of my 89 Mazda 323. What the
heck, I can bring the big tent.
Everyone have a safe trip to the shoe.
Bob Griffin
528PY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bug Bait Lar at SnF |
Won't work ! ! ! I haven't stopped talking for 50 years. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryb" <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Bug Bait Lar at SnF
>
> Lar,
> Skeeters are attracted to carbon dioxide, just hold your breath and you'll
> be OK.
> jerryb
>
> >
> >
> >Big Lar wrote:
> >
> >< >few fortunate people who, if there are a million people packed into a
square
> >mile, and 1 mosquito is turned loose............it'll come straight to
me.
> >Guaranteed ! ! ! My neighbors laugh about it when the gnats come out in
the>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
I guess what I
> am trying to say is that the rules them selves do not make flying safe in
> the pattern. It really is in the hands or eyes of who ever is up there in
> the air trying to see other aircraft and trying to be seen.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack/Gents:
I agree. Good post. See and be seen.
Also, remember, per Part 103, that everyother aircraft you
can think of has priority over ultralight vehicles. ULs are
to give way to all the others. The only thing an UL has
priority over is another UL in the pattern who got there
first. On the other hand, the air is not a place to argue
over who has the right of way. :-)
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> I nominate that intrepid Army Aviator Mr. Hauck, (who is retired and
> without anything to do) to coordinate the next Kolb fly-in.
> Dave Rains
> El Paso (no skeeters)
Dave/Will/Gang:
Not even a sweet tongued devil could sweet talk me into
taking on a job like that, but I if I did, I would recommend
or maybe designate the El Paso area as the location of the
2002 Kolb Flyin. Didn't get much of a chance to enjoy the
local area when I flew through in 1994.
Old Army Aviators love to designate and delegate. Let's
see, who do we have in that area to start the ball
rolling??? :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
Today, J.R. brought in the FRS radios he loaned me for the Mexico trip,
and I brought my shiny new GMRS toys. Both of us
remembered..........the 1st time around. Miracles never cease. He was
fascinated with the idea of the extra range, and interested in the
experiment, so away we went.................and I got good news for us.
Channel for channel, and code for code, they matched. We tried several
different combos 1st, then set them for channel 4, code 4. Where'd I
come up with those numbers ?? Happy to say, they worked perfectly. No
problema...............soooooo, at SnF, 4 & 4 it is. Now, he's
borrowed my 2 radios, for an experiment of his own. Seems his son can't
quite talk to home with the FRS when he goes as far as the store, or the
school; just not quite enuf range with the 2 mile, 0.5 watt FRS. If
the 1 watt, 5 mile GMRS can do the job, he'll sell his present radios,
and buy the new ones. (How the ad people figure 2 + 2 5, I'm not
real sure, but we'll see.) Gogittum Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Trask <sctrask(at)diisd.org> |
on 3/26/02 6:42 PM, John Hauck at hawk36(at)mindspring.com wrote:
>
>
>> I nominate that intrepid Army Aviator Mr. Hauck, (who is retired and
>> without anything to do) to coordinate the next Kolb fly-in.
>> Dave Rains
>> El Paso (no skeeters)
>
> Dave/Will/Gang:
>
> Not even a sweet tongued devil could sweet talk me into
> taking on a job like that, but I if I did, I would recommend
> or maybe designate the El Paso area as the location of the
> 2002 Kolb Flyin. Didn't get much of a chance to enjoy the
> local area when I flew through in 1994.
>
> Old Army Aviators love to designate and delegate. Let's
> see, who do we have in that area to start the ball
> rolling??? :-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
HI
Go North! I need you guys up here for our EAA Chp. 439 fly-in. Trying to
get a good ultra light turn out. There's going to be war birds to hot rods
and big band hanger dance in the the evening.
We could have a Kolb gathering at another place. There are some nice spots
to camp. My private runway would be open to you guys to fly-in camp.
Scott Trask IMT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Listers Cookout at S&F |
Answers To Bob's ?'s:
> I have a smal FM walk abot that only lists 4 chanels. Will the 4th chanel
for Kolb work
If it helps, Channel 4 on the FRS & GMRS radios is 462.6375 MHz.
> and----where is the trailer for the cook out.
My plans are to park it on NE corner of the UL trailer parking lot. The
UL parking lot is immediately South of the UL Camping. Both of these are
immediately East of Paradise City (the UL display area). Look for White
twin axle trailer with Green trim, & RV awning on right side, & Red & Silver
GMC Suburban.
> Can we bring stuff and what may
> be needed?.
Food, drinks, ice, chairs, stories, pictures, what ever would help make
a cookout a good time.
>Could an info sheet be posted at the Kolb Display??
I'll try to post a map, if they don' mind.
....Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar |
Guys,
I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my third
flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems with
during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have unintentionally
stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300 feet.
It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since I had
previously experienced stalls during my training. Do any of you have any
suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch attitude on an
ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls and
landings. I just wanted to share the above experience with others in case
they might experience the same in the future. DB in Bayou Country
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in |
UltraStar
Tie a piece of yarn on something that is in your direct vision. The angle
it makes with what ever it is tied to will help. The other bit of advice
is to keep watch of your air speed indicator. Pick an indicated climb
speed (yarn angle) that does not stall.
Good Luck,
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
>
>Guys,
> I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my third
>flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems with
>during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have unintentionally
>stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300 feet.
>It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since I had
>previously experienced stalls during my training. Do any of you have any
>suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch attitude on an
>ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
>
>PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls and
>landings. I just wanted to share the above experience with others in case
>they might experience the same in the future. DB in Bayou Country
>
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patty M" <pattym(at)lushen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar |
Darrel, I fly a stock ultrastar and don't try to lift off before 30 mph and
keep my climb out between 40 to 45 . I do not know the sink rate of the
earth but it falls off below you real fast at that speed.
Phil MacGregor
Marquette Mi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar
>
> Guys,
> I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my third
> flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems with
> during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have unintentionally
> stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300 feet.
> It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since I had
> previously experienced stalls during my training. Do any of you have any
> suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch attitude on
an
> ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
>
> PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls and
> landings. I just wanted to share the above experience with others in case
> they might experience the same in the future. DB in Bayou Country
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar |
The only thing that I am having problems with
> during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have unintentionally
> stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300 feet.
Do any of you have any
> suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch attitude on an
> ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
> PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls and
> landings. DB in Bayou Country
DB/Gang:
Third flight, unintentional departure stall a couple times,
sounds like a serious problem to me.
If you have have an airspeed indicator, us it as your
attitude indicator and to keep a cross check going of your
airspeed. Seems to me 40 to 45 mph would be a good, safe
climbout speed.
The Ultrastar is a very forgiving airplane when it comes to
stalls, but it will bite you in the butt if you get in the
right circumstances close to the ground. Maybe a member of
this list will share his experience with the Ultrastar stall
close to the ground.
Take care and be careful,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Darrell,
I have time in an Ultrastar and the best thing you can do is keep track
of your airspeed. Look at where your stick is and keep it forward while
climbing out. A stall on takeoff can really hurt, so be careful.
In cruise, look out on the wing and compare the angle of it to the
horizon. The wing should be a few degrees above the horizon.
Ralph
writes:
>
>
> Guys,
> I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my
> third
> flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems
> with
> during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have
> unintentionally
> stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300
> feet.
> It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since
> I had
> previously experienced stalls during my training. Do any of you
> have any
> suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch
> attitude on an
> ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
>
> PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls
> and
> landings. I just wanted to share the above experience with others
> in case
> they might experience the same in the future. DB in Bayou
> Country
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar |
Hi Darrell,
You have already gotten some good advice and suggestions, but I thought I'd
throw my $.02
The thing about the US that can fool you is the high angle of attack that it
has just sitting on the ground. This is a higher angle of attack than you
will experience in flight and you want to erase
the-sitting-on-the-ground-angle-of-attack perception from your mind. An
exercise that may prove helpful would be to block up the tail till the wing
bottom is about 5 degrees angle of attack. Then spend some time just
sitting in the US and then try to remember what this attitude look like.
It also sounds like you may be flying too slowly, try using more throttle.
I have noticed that some first time/low time flyers tend to "baby" the
aircraft and not give it much throuttle. It is bettter to use too much than
too little.
You may be climbing too steeply, this is easy to do given the angle of
attach discussion above, so try keeping you climb angle less steep.
Have fun and fly safely,
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: First, Second, and soon to be Third Flight in UltraStar
>
> Guys,
> I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my third
> flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems with
> during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have unintentionally
> stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300 feet.
> It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since I had
> previously experienced stalls during my training. Do any of you have any
> suggestions as to what to use as a reference point for pitch attitude on
an
> ultrastar or will this be resolved with time in the plane?
>
> PS. The UltraStar is a very forgiving plane when it comes to stalls and
> landings. I just wanted to share the above experience with others in case
> they might experience the same in the future. DB in Bayou Country
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Ultrastar first flights |
Darrell,
I won't add anything to the good advice you already have
received except that the pilots that have flown mine have all had the
same comments. I have an enclosure that brings your feet up higher than
the original but it still is a problem . The angle of the wing on the
horizon is the most helpful for me...
Ed in
Western NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Jones" <jeffrey.jones(at)interactivetechnologies.com> |
| Subject: | Third flight in Ultra Star |
Darrell wrote:
Guys,
I just wanted to briefly mention that this afternoon will mark my
third
flight in my ultrastar. The only thing that I am having problems with
during flight is knowing the attitude of my plane. I have
unintentionally
stalled my plane a couple of times right after takeoff at about 300
feet.
It didn't take me long to realize that I had stalled the plane since I
had
previously experienced stalls during my training.
Darrell,
Most of the replies I have seen so far all discuss power and they are
right. John Hauck can stop at 300' hover around, eat lunch and take off
again......but he has experience. My first real flight I questioned
myself as to the attitude I was flying and always went back thinking of
the advice given to me. Always remember your feet are not level in
flight. Use the string method that Jack mentioned. With the advice of
an experienced Kolb pilot.....I crowe hopped allot. If you cannot
differentiate level flight at this stage in flying the Ultra Star....I
recommend spending more time crowe hopping 10 to 20 ft off the ground
until you have a good feel of your attitude and can comfortably hold it
there. My Ultra Star flies very well at low power setting for crowe
hopping. Do not kid yourself thinking your ready for a real flight
around the pattern. I committed to being burned out on crowe hopping
before taking my first trip around the patch. Fortunately my flying
patch was a 2000' strip and now I go in and out of a 600' strip open at
both ends. Good flying to you!
Jeff Jones
Burlington KY
Ultra Star
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Third flight in the UltraStar |
Guys,
Thanks for all the information being posted in reply to my question. I
made a third flight late yesterday afternoon and experienced nothing close
to a stall. I paid particular attention to my airspeed on takeoff and I
also installed a visual reference on my windshield.
One other thing that I failed to mention yesterday was the fact that when
I did a static runup of my engine (Cuyuna ULII-02), I achieved 7000 RPM on
my tach and still had more throttle. Since the max RPM s/b 6500, I backed
off on the throttle during runup. My temps were 300 and 1125. Based on
others past comments on the list, I don't see how it is possible to achieve
so many RPMs with a Tenn 50X30 prop. I have my suspicions that the tach is
wrong; however, I have not received my tiny tach to verify the readings.
When I take off, I never completely wind out the engine. I keep it in the
6600 RPM range, so I very may well be taking off underpowered. I won't be
flying anymore until I have the answer on my tach. I'll keep you guys
posted. DB in Bayou Country
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Volum" <pvolum(at)etsmiami.com> |
| Subject: | GA vs UL Accident Statistics? |
This came from AvWeb.
NTSB STATISTICS SHOW SLIGHT RISE IN GA ACCIDENT RATE
The NTSB on Tuesday released its annual aviation accident statistics,
and general aviation was the only category of air transport to report an
increase in its accident rate for 2001. (The terrorist attacks of last
September didn't affect the air carrier rates, since the NTSB deemed
those crashes to be crimes, not accidents.) GA aircraft had fewer
accidents and fewer fatalities overall in 2001, but the aircraft also
flew about 3 million fewer hours than the year before. The accident
rate per 100,000 flight hours increased from 6.33 in 2000 to 6.56 in
2001, the NTSB said.
Does anybody know if Ultralights are considered as a separate group
among the categories of this comparison. If so, we may be doing
something right as a group. (At least as compared to GA anyway).
PV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight, second.... |
We have a airspeed indicator that is almost
> at the same level and we are getting ready to mount a Hall airspeed
> indicator out front to give a good indication of speed at the low speeds
> we'll be landing at.
Don R/Gents:
I found the best ASI for Ultrastar (US) and Firestar (FS)
was the Winter Venturi Type ASI designed and built primarily
for use in gliders. This ASI is accurate from near zero
right on up to 75 MPH. It does not use the normal pitot
pressure/static air pressure source for operation. The
venturi produces vacuum which in turns operates the needle.
It is not affected by poor static source or extreme angles
of attack. If I were to own and fly the US or FS I would
invest in this ASI again.
At 25 mph indicated my US would fly. A needle width below
the 25 mark and it would start nibbling at the stall.
I also used yaw string on US and FS. Have little Winter
slip/skid indicator on MK III.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sabean <sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
Messed up the alignment of the inboard elevator hinge. Unable to adjust
it by redrilling the holes so I am considering cutting off the inboard
12 inches of the elevator leading edge and splicing it back together
using a 6 inch insert. Similar to the splice on the aileron but would
use a smaller diameter inside sleeve like is used to strengthen the
areas where a wire brace is attached.
Any thoughts?
Tom Sabean
Building Mk111 Xtra
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- tom sabean writes:
From: tom sabean <sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Kolb-List: Splice
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:20:37 -0400
Messed up the alignment of the inboard elevator hinge. Unable to adjust
it by redrilling the holes so I am considering cutting off the inboard
12 inches of the elevator leading edge and splicing it back together
using a 6 inch insert. Similar to the splice on the aileron but would
use a smaller diameter inside sleeve like is used to strengthen the
areas where a wire brace is attached.
Any thoughts?
Tom Sabean
Building Mk111 Xtra
Tom,
It's cheaper to buy a new tube. Maybe you can get it locally.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | KOLB FOR SALE ON EBAY!!! |
Hey fellow flyers!!!!! there is a nice kolb KXP
model
for sale on ebay!!! in the ft. lauderdale area. first bid
starts at $6000.00. don't know what his reserve is but you
can call or e-mail him to find out. might be a good deal for
someone, nice paint scheme too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816844407&r=0&t=0
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
KOLB KXP MODEL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | NICE KOLB FOR SALE ON EBAY!!! |
Hey fellow flyers!!!!! there is a nice kolb KXP model
for sale on ebay!!! in the ft. lauderdale area. first bid
starts at $6000.00. don't know what his reserve is but you
can call or e-mail him to find out. might be a good deal for
someone, nice paint scheme too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1816844407&r=0&t=0
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
KOLB KXP MODEL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
Got a question for ya. What will protect metal from rustin but not attract
dirt? Has to be a spray kind thing like WD40. I can't paint or wax the
surfaces. I have been usin WD40 just to push water out and protect a bit
from rust but it attracts dirt. It works find except for the dirt
attraction. Is there another product that will protect the metal and not
attract dirt?
Thanks for the help
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Derby" <derbyrm(at)accessky.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
I don't have the issue handy, but sometime in the not so recent past,
Aviation Consumer did an article on preservative compounds. IIRC they liked
a yellowish waxy compound for spraying on aircraft interiors when one lived
near the ocean or flew a float plane.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs
>
> Got a question for ya. What will protect metal from rustin but not
attract
> dirt? Has to be a spray kind thing like WD40. I can't paint or wax the
> surfaces. I have been usin WD40 just to push water out and protect a bit
> from rust but it attracts dirt. It works find except for the dirt
> attraction. Is there another product that will protect the metal and not
> attract dirt?
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Gang:
Not to out do Big Lar, but The Gray Baron would like you all
to take a look at what he is doing:
http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Flying%20Friends/Bob%20N%20B17G.jpg
Bob says it flies like a log skid. He was one of the last
"amateurs" to get to fly it from the left seat.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Group,
Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I have
the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I thought I
would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
Thanks,
Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I order my
engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
I've looked into "Corrosion X," and it sounds pretty good. I plan on using
it when (if ever) Vamoose is finished. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Thacker" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs
>
> Got a question for ya. What will protect metal from rustin but not
attract
> dirt? Has to be a spray kind thing like WD40. I can't paint or wax the
> surfaces. I have been usin WD40 just to push water out and protect a bit
> from rust but it attracts dirt. It works find except for the dirt
> attraction. Is there another product that will protect the metal and not
> attract dirt?
>
> Thanks for the help
>
> Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Ed, if you are going to haul 12,000 lbs. go with leaf, if you are going to
carry 500 lbs. go with torsion, it will give you and the plane a better ride that
will be absorbed before it gets to the plane. as for the axels, go with tandem,
it will only cost an extra $125.00 for the axel and whatever tires and rims you
put on, that way you can go with an electric brake on each axel, check with "DOT"
on what you need for your state, minnesota requires at least one. also if you
ever plan to trailer your plane any great distances your sure enough going to get
a flat sometime, you can run all day on three wheels or 2 if you have to, just
make sure if you have a flat on the rear tire to change and you don't have a
spare or have gone through it already, put the good tires on the back, if you run
the trailer with one tire missing on the back, it will be like the tail wagging
the dog, very dangerous. don't use anything but dexter axels, you can get them
anywhere in the world and they stand behind what they sell. I probably told you
more than you wanted to know, but i have hauled enough antique gas engines and
john deere tractors to gain this experience. feel free to e-mail me or call me
if
you have any questions.
BLEEDING GREEN
952-474-3540
Gary r. voigt
kxp
>
> Group,
> Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
> torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I have
> the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I thought I
> would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> Thanks,
> Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I order my
> engine)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
BigLar,
Also look at ACF-50 and Boeshield. Very good for corrosion prevention.
I've used many gals of -50 sprayed into wings, tail, rear fuselage of
GA (pardon the word!). It will leak out for a long time but rags help.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
>Got a question for ya. What will protect metal from rustin but not attract
>dirt?
Most people refer to it as paint. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
cover everything with plastic after applying w-d40.
David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs |
My understanding is that Corrosion X is carried in a solvent, which
evaporates quickly, and leaves a waxy coating, that gets under rivet heads,
etc. That marine test I mentioned a while back seemed to indicate that
products like Boeshield, WD-40, etc. evaporate after a while, leaving no, or
little, protection. Even regular oil..............look at the problems with
Lycoming engines cams, if the engine isn't run regularly. I know, in that
case, it's not evaporation, but still a problem.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "bob n" <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Protedt without attracting dirt.....thumbs
>
> BigLar,
>
> Also look at ACF-50 and Boeshield. Very good for corrosion prevention.
> I've used many gals of -50 sprayed into wings, tail, rear fuselage of
> GA (pardon the word!). It will leak out for a long time but rags help.
>
> Bob N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List:protectant |
Group,
One product I have used that will last at least a year is anti
-corrosion spray made by Outboard Motor Corporation. It sprays on& when it
dries it leaves a thin waxy film that wont hardly come off unless you rub it
with some sort of solvent. It works well on the fitting that the aileron tube
goes through. It has lubricating qualities similar to grease, but does not
come off like grease when you rub it.
It works for me,
Ed Diebel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hjalmar Johanesson" <hjalm(at)ismennt.is> |
| Subject: | Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
I am building my trailer, here in Iceland, for my Kolb-Tvinstar, and I only
use single axles. I am also trying to let the trailer not go above 750 kg.
(1.500 pt) because of the government who tell us, if we can keep the trailer
below 750 kg. I dont need to list it and in my country and we dont need
to let the government know about the trailer. But this is little bit
difficult to keep it below 750 kg. because the trailer is 8 m. long and 2 m
wide and the house is 2,30 m high and full covered.
I dont think that you need to have two axles under your trailer but if you
dont have limit from your government it is OK to have 2 axles. I can send
you a drawing of the trailer if you like.
Bestu kvejur/best regards
hjalmar
*************************
Hjlmar Jhannesson
Urarteig 6
740 Neskaupsta
Iceland
Tel: (354) 477 11 70
Mobil (354) 895 11 70
Email: mailto:hjalm(at)ismennt.is
URL http://hjalmar.ismennt.is/
**************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
Group,
Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I have
the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I thought I
would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
Thanks,
Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I order
my
engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Keep it light duty so the plane rides smooth. If the suspension is heavy
duty, the plane will take the beating instead of the trailer.
David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PFI/ACF-RF" <redhill(at)rose.net> |
| Subject: | Mising Passenger |
Has I gots a story to tell ya'll 'bout. I knows 'ol Jose with his pointed
nose speed deeming challenger and John Hawk with his indestructible cross
country traveling kolb just loves to read my stories, so I dedicates this
one to dem both. If ya gots little times on ya hands for non-buiding
stories...delete now.
Yesterday was Good Friday; and me being da southern gent that I is, decided
to take that school teacher (actually he be da Headmaster) flying in my
aeroplane over his skool futball field with all dem little kids enjoying a
typical southern "field day" of intense outside studies of the skies. we
learns our kids well 'bout da outdoors. ya never knows what might fall from
da sky.
Da 'ol headmaster show up at my plane hanger ready to go. I tells him to
gets in the back seats while I set around da corner to relieve myselfs of
sum extra weight from mys regular 'morning coffee & bourbon. (i forgets da
number, but deir is this here regulation bout relieving yourself beffore ya
flyies and i always wants to follow dem rules). I gets in da front seat and
he already all comfortable in da back. It mighty early in 'morning to bz
flying 1500UTC to bees exact, buts a pomise is a promise, so up we goes.
Well....we flys ov'r da field and I sees all dem kids on da field waving. I
climbs da plane way up high when all of a sudden my headmaster friend taps
me on da shoulder and says to me...."See ya later!!!" and jumps out of my
aeroplane. Well da kids scattered to the sidelines, but What u gonna do?
I watches him down all da way untill he hits on the 50 yd line. What a
precision jump he made. all i could do was flys back to the ol aeroport all
bys myself with a empty back seat .....alls by myself without the passenger
i tooks up with me. Kinda wierd feeling goings back without da one you took
up with ya. did i says that already?
I hadn't been on da ground a minute when mys cell phone was a ringing....it
was da headmaster sayings what great show he put on for da kids. Now they
all going to go home and tells dair parents they wants to jump outs of a
plane too.
Oh lord has mercy on me sole.... Jose and John, I is so sorry....I forgots
to tell ya da headmaster was an expert skydiver and he did takes his chute
along and it did opens for him.....and i did calls in da notam likes ya
'pose to does.
when ya flies in da south and ya sees these here strange looking
modems....keep looking ups for my falling passengers. by da law i has to
give dem federal fellows an hours notice 'fore my passengers can jumps out.
i know it don't does much for da VFR & part 103s traffic already in da air,
but they can always looks up through da holes in da roof.
MCN 03/113 MGM PJE 1 NMR MGM120020 5000/BLW WEF 0203291500-0203291410
andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "check6" <check6(at)alltel.net> |
I am a lurker on the Kolb list. I built and fly regularly one of the
first Firestars. Anyone flying to or from S & F passing near Southwest
Georgia is welcome to stop at my strip. I am located 8 miles south of
Blakely Ga. I have an 850 ft. by 40 ft. grass strip 03-21. GPS 31 15
720 84 54 823. I live on a farm and have a nice place to camp out. I
keep gas and Pennz. aircooled 2 stk. I monitor 122. 850 continuously.
All welcome. Call sign Check 6. John Todd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Ed,
I agree with Gary, & would add 2 points: 1) Rubber tortional axles also
double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, 2) Twin axles are much
smoother on rough terrain, when one wheel goes into a pot hole, the 2nd
wheel still keeps the load up. There is a lot of good info on trailers in
the archives. ...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
>
> Ed, if you are going to haul 12,000 lbs. go with leaf, if you are
going to
> carry 500 lbs. go with torsion, it will give you and the plane a better
ride that
> will be absorbed before it gets to the plane. as for the axels, go with
tandem,
> it will only cost an extra $125.00 for the axel and whatever tires and
rims you
> put on, that way you can go with an electric brake on each axel, check
with "DOT"
> on what you need for your state, minnesota requires at least one. also if
you
> ever plan to trailer your plane any great distances your sure enough going
to get
> a flat sometime, you can run all day on three wheels or 2 if you have to,
just
> make sure if you have a flat on the rear tire to change and you don't have
a
> spare or have gone through it already, put the good tires on the back, if
you run
> the trailer with one tire missing on the back, it will be like the tail
wagging
> the dog, very dangerous. don't use anything but dexter axels, you can get
them
> anywhere in the world and they stand behind what they sell. I probably
told you
> more than you wanted to know, but i have hauled enough antique gas engines
and
> john deere tractors to gain this experience. feel free to e-mail me or
call me if
> you have any questions.
>
>
> BLEEDING GREEN
> 952-474-3540
> Gary r. voigt
> kxp
>
> >
> > Group,
> > Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
> > torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I
have
> > the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I
thought I
> > would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> > materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> > Thanks,
> > Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I
order my
> > engine)
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <wecounselman3(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | WENT FLYING AGAIN |
I flew a Challenger 500 ultralight trainer today N of
Sacramento with Ray, my ultralight instructor, after
not flying for two years. My blood pressure was too
high and my 3rd class medical ran out. I am now taking
Maxzide and will take the medical exam on thurs. I
have ~60 hrs. on C-152/172.
But for flying the ultralight trainer you dont need a
medical and I really needed to fly. Some impressions:
My very good Lightspeed headsets did not work in the
trainer. We had to return to Freedom Field and use
his Dinky Cluck greenish, beat up headset. I also
took off my hat, maybe that was the problem. After
that it was just VERY noisy, possibly because of the
Jabiru engine or possibly because of the old gel seals
on the DC headset. But I could hear him and,
sometimes, the traffic calls.
Good seats (I am 511), great vis, good ventilation,
very clunky trim, power lever, flaps. All controls
difficult and/or non-standard, non-intuitive. Computer
engine rpm and temp/pressure displays easy to read (I
still never notice the egt or temp readout, just like
I ignore the Cessna temps). It will take a while to
figure out this instrument/switch setup.
Very short, bumpy takeoff; yoke back until liftoff,
then forward yoke to gain 50-55 mph climb speed. Back
pressure VERY strong on climbout. Ray installed extra
trim springs for my weight (220 lbs.) but I am not
sure they worked- the trim was so hidden under my seat
I never changed it, I assume Ray did but dont really
know. Hard to pull back hard enough to climb at Vy.
Didnt seem to matter much, we still got ~500 fpm.
Flew between houses for noise abatement PR as Ray
put it. Stayed below 1600 to avoid the SMF charlie;
flew N to the practice area E of Lincoln (LHM). Did
steep turns of 90, 180 and 360 degrees. I lost or
gained altitude, had a hard time rolling out on point,
and had a hard time finding my way back home- the same
way I always fly. No DG and the whiskey compass was
actually falling out of the panel. Ray said "oh, we
never use that, just fly by the roads, they run
north-south and east-west". And so they did. Made the
turns a bit easier.
We did one touch-n-go at LHM. Seemed pretty weird
compared to a Wichita Spamcan. Flew a pattern like it
was 1968 or a Nolan Ryan fastball- high and tight.
Noticed few of the GA pilots were bothering to call
positions, maybe all their radios were NORDO.
From tpa of 1121 we cut power abeam the nbrs., very
short base and final. Full flaps, dive at the 6k long
runway. I was scared! But what the ell. There we are,
flaring at about 5, roll about 50. Piece of cake.
(Did I do that or did my instructor- harder to tell in
a tandem). Landing back home was even scarier. I
thought we were going right THROUGH his hangar. We did
a hard, long slip to lose the altitude the thermals
had given us and stopped in plenty of time, even with
the weak brakes.
I like Ray but he has the fault a lot of instructors
have; I never know who is working the controls. I
prefer instructors who keep their control pressure
either light or OFF when I have the plane so I can
really tell when I am screwing it up or doing it
right, or if the instructor is sweetening up my moves.
Ray has a Chinook with a Rotax 277 for sale. Does
anybody know anything about the plane? Can you still
get parts for the engine?
I have some Cessna C-120/140 mufflers (Cont. C-8512F)
I need to get rid of. One small puncture.
I have a rant building up re: Sport Pilot, EAA, AOPA,
airplane manufactures et al. Stay tuned.
Yours,
Bill
=====
http://greetings.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
My FireFly's enclosed trailer has worked out very well. It has a single rubber
torsion axle and weighs 1700 lbs. The only mistake I made was to loan it to a
friend who overloaded it for 500 mile trip. The axles must have been near the
end of their flex limits most of the way. The result I could see was that the
tire treads were scolloped. After this mistreatment I loaded the FireFly, ramps
etc back in took her for a ride and found that there was no damage to the suspension
but it will be a long time before I loan it out again. The trailers
design load limit was 500 Lbs and his load must have been close to 800lbs.
Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, Mk3/912 in the workshop.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Swiderski
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
connect.net>
Ed,
I agree with Gary, & would add 2 points: 1) Rubber tortional axles also
double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, 2) Twin axles are much
smoother on rough terrain, when one wheel goes into a pot hole, the 2nd
wheel still keeps the load up. There is a lot of good info on trailers in
the archives. ...Richard Swiderski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
>
> Ed, if you are going to haul 12,000 lbs. go with leaf, if you are
going to
> carry 500 lbs. go with torsion, it will give you and the plane a better
ride that
> will be absorbed before it gets to the plane. as for the axels, go with
tandem,
> it will only cost an extra $125.00 for the axel and whatever tires and
rims you
> put on, that way you can go with an electric brake on each axel, check
with "DOT"
> on what you need for your state, minnesota requires at least one. also
if
you
> ever plan to trailer your plane any great distances your sure enough going
to get
> a flat sometime, you can run all day on three wheels or 2 if you have to,
just
> make sure if you have a flat on the rear tire to change and you don't have
a
> spare or have gone through it already, put the good tires on the back,
if
you run
> the trailer with one tire missing on the back, it will be like the tail
wagging
> the dog, very dangerous. don't use anything but dexter axels, you can get
them
> anywhere in the world and they stand behind what they sell. I probably
told you
> more than you wanted to know, but i have hauled enough antique gas engines
and
> john deere tractors to gain this experience. feel free to e-mail me or
call me if
> you have any questions.
>
>
> BLEEDING GREEN
> 952-474-3540
> Gary r. voigt
> kxp
>
> >
> > Group,
> > Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
> > torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I
have
> > the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I
thought I
> > would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> > materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> > Thanks,
> > Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I
order my
> > engine)
> >
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
Final update on the great radio test................J.R. returned my
radios today, and had a bit to say. Mainly, the range didn't seem to be
too much greater with the GMRS radios, than with the FRS, but don't know
what channels he was using.............GMRS only uses 1 watt on the
upper channels; 1/2 watt on the FRS channels. Then, too, they were in
town, going up and down city streets, so houses were in the way. He did
say they were clearer farther, and had much more volume. His kids loved
them, cause they're a little higher tech than his 3 yr old ones, and
have a few more bells & whistles. Soooo...........it's a little
inconclusive. If you have FRS, I don't think I'd run out and buy GMRS
just yet. They're better, but apparently not that much. Others'
results may vary. See y'all at SnF ! ! ! Big
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "info" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
| Subject: | Sun-'N-Fun!!!!!!! |
Hi Gang,
We'll be manning the Poly-Fiber booth all week at Sun-'N-Fun, located in
building "B".
Please stop by & see us!
We'll be at the get together Sunday evening, How 'bout someone stopping
by & letting us know the specifics?
Thanks,
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber & Ceconite Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
> 1) Rubber tortional axles also
> double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, ...Richard Swiderski
Richard/Gents:
You need to explain the above theory a little more to this
thick headed old man. Where and how does the dampening
occur with rubber? I would think neither steel nor rubber
would make good shocks.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joel Reed" <jfreed(at)dejazzd.com> |
Hello fellow Kolbers,
I have often wondered about how much gs can a Kolb Firestar take,
not that I wanted to do aerobatic but just to understand the structural
limits of it. Also what would be the Va be also, should I stay under
Va speed in higher wind condition as I would with a GA plane. In this
case I have a 84 Kolb Firestar 377. Really enjoy flying it.
Joel Reed
Lancaster Co, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) and axles! |
One thing that you should consider in building your trailer is "how are
you going to unload it". With the standard configuration of a firestar for
instance, the wing has about 2 inches of clearance from the floor when
folded. If you use a drop door, you are going to need something special
rigged up to get it out of the door without scraping the wings. Either some
very long gradual ramps or a trailer that tips up in the front to align the
door with the ground. I built mine with one axle, with the main idea of
keeping it light. The whole thing is 78" wide X 23 feet long. The entire
framework is very light, with the metal steel roofing sheets supplying much
of the strength. Weight is less than 1800 lbs. When I attempted to load the
plane, it was very obvious that the 76" high (ramp)door was not going to
work. I ended up making a jack that tips up the front of the trailer and
allows me to roll the plane in without scraping. Having only one axle makes
it easy to tip. The difficulty in only having one axle is the tendency of
the trailer to wiggle side to side. That can be stopped with a sway device
on the hitch. I am sure that you have given all this a lot of thought, I
just thought that I might give you a bit of a heads up.
Larry Cottrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
>
> Keep it light duty so the plane rides smooth. If the suspension is heavy
> duty, the plane will take the beating instead of the trailer.
>
> David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
> > 1) Rubber tortional axles also
> > double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, ...Richard
Swiderski
>
> Richard/Gents:
>
> You need to explain the above theory a little more to this
> thick headed old man. Where and how does the dampening
> occur with rubber? I would think neither steel nor rubber
> would make good shocks.
springs take up a certain amount of force and then return it with very good
efficiency, little damping. shocks absorb energy, so you get less force
returned than was put in. Rubber used as springs absorb some energy in
the form of internal friction heating up the rubber, so they give back less
heat than was put in so they act as shocks as well as springs.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
John, i will try and explain this to you, torsion or "torflex" suspension
as
it is referred to is a torsion arm suspention which is completely self contained
within the axel tube. it attaches directly to the trailer frame using brackets
which are an integral part of the axle assembly. the torflex axel provides improved
axel suspension characteristics relative to leaf spring axles through the unique
arrangement of a steel torsion bar surrounded by fournatural rubber cords encased
in the main strucural member of the axel beam.
The wheel /hub spindle is attached to a lever, called a torsion arm, which is
fastened to the rubber encased bar. as load is applied, the bar rotates causing
a
rolling/compressive resistance in the rubber cords. this action provides the same
functions as conventional sprung axels with several operating advantages including
independent suspension.
John Hauck wrote:
>
> > 1) Rubber tortional axles also
> > double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, ...Richard Swiderski
>
> Richard/Gents:
>
> You need to explain the above theory a little more to this
> thick headed old man. Where and how does the dampening
> occur with rubber? I would think neither steel nor rubber
> would make good shocks.
>
> john h
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Thanks Topher and Gary V for your explanation of rubber
torsion bar suspension.
I have torsion bar suspension on my Nissan 4WD PU, but it is
dampened by Rancho shocks.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
Mr. Mitchell, i was wondering what the curb weight of your trailer is (
total weight - payload) i think you said it was 1700 lbs. that means if your
payload 500lbs. you have a 1200lb. axle, (curb weight - axle load = payload)
300lbs. should not have been the straw that broke the camels back, trailers
axles are designed to have at least a 50-60 % safety margin in them, and
more... you are close to the limit if you have a 1200lb. axle, however it
should be very easy for you to haul a gross weight of 2700lb. i see a little
minor problem here... your curb weight of the trailer is eating up all your
payload. come on over and lets throw another axle under it. just a thought.
thanks,
Gary r. voigt
kxp
H MITCHELL wrote:
>
> My FireFly's enclosed trailer has worked out very well. It has a single r> ubber
torsion axle and weighs 1700 lbs. The only mistake I made was to l> oan it
to a friend who overloaded it for 500 mile trip. The axles must ha> ve been
near the end of their flex limits most of the way. The result I c> ould see was
that the tire treads were scolloped. After this mistreatment> I loaded the
FireFly, ramps etc back in took her for a ride and found th> at there was no damage
to the suspension but it will be a long time befor> e I loan it out again.
The trailers design load limit was 500 Lbs and his> load must have been close
to 800lbs.
>
> Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, Mk3/912 in the workshop> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Swiderski
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
>
> connect.net>
>
> Ed,
> I agree with Gary, & would add 2 points: 1) Rubber tortional axles al> so
> double as shock absorbers where steel springs do not, 2) Twin axles are m> uch
> smoother on rough terrain, when one wheel goes into a pot hole, the 2nd
> wheel still keeps the load up. There is a lot of good info on trailers i> n
> the archives. ...Richard Swiderski
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary r. voigt" <johndeereantique(at)uswest.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf )
>
>
> >
> > Ed, if you are going to haul 12,000 lbs. go with leaf, if you are
> going to
> > carry 500 lbs. go with torsion, it will give you and the plane a better
> ride that
> > will be absorbed before it gets to the plane. as for the axels, go with
> tandem,
> > it will only cost an extra $125.00 for the axel and whatever tires and
> rims you
> > put on, that way you can go with an electric brake on each axel, check
> with "DOT"
> > on what you need for your state, minnesota requires at least one. also
> if
> you
> > ever plan to trailer your plane any great distances your sure enough go> ing
> to get
> > a flat sometime, you can run all day on three wheels or 2 if you have t> o,
> just
> > make sure if you have a flat on the rear tire to change and you don't h> ave
> a
> > spare or have gone through it already, put the good tires on the back,
> if
> you run
> > the trailer with one tire missing on the back, it will be like the tail
> wagging
> > the dog, very dangerous. don't use anything but dexter axels, you can g> et
> them
> > anywhere in the world and they stand behind what they sell. I probably
> told you
> > more than you wanted to know, but i have hauled enough antique gas engi> nes
> and
> > john deere tractors to gain this experience. feel free to e-mail me or
> call me if
> > you have any questions.
> >
> >
> > BLEEDING GREEN
> > 952-474-3540
> > Gary r. voigt
> > kxp
> >
> > >
> > > Group,
> > > Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf v> s.
> > > torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles.> I
> have
> > > the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I
> thought I
> > > would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> > > materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I
> order my
> > > engine)
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 03/31/02 Sun & Fun |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 03/31/02 Sun & Fun |
I,ve had 2-3 mo. of preperation and work getting ready for my flight from NY
to Fla. As it happens to turn out, it's a "no go" because of fuel system
problems. Talk about disappointment !! I will set everything aside and drive
my car down and still enjoy the show and get to know people.
Bob Griffin
528PY Kolb MK3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
for what it is worth, me and mine have been trailering my little '86 kolb
around for a long time now and I used to build custom trailers so I figure I
know a little about them. I will just say this for your consideration. The
biggest thing to consider about two vs single ax is stability. Your mental
stability. Had a tire tread go out a few years back heading for Texoma.
Friend following me signaled with his lights. Could have been real nasty had
the tire gone. When hauling it behind something that you cannot see the
tires, watch out. If you lose a tire with even that kind of weight on it,
you gonna find out what whip is. She gonna be the tail waging the dog. My
next one will definately be a duce. my two cents. ted cowan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)georgesmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Sun 'N Fun |
>Jon Croke wrote: My only additional advice is that any lodging
> in Tampa will cause you traffic headaches in
> the morning rush (been there, done that).
Having spent an uncomfortably long time in the Tampa Bay area,
I can attest to the accuracy of Jon's statement. At one time, I
lived an agonizing SIX MILES from my place of employment to
my home (at that time). We were only a few blocks off of the
I-19 (a major N - S roadway) and it took us TYPICALLY in
the ONE HOUR RANGE to make that distance during either
the morning or the evening "Rush Hours".
My advice, also, is to stay out of the Tampa area. I do envy
all of you going this year. I've been 3 times in the past, but, I
now live in Arizona and can't find the time or the justification to
make the trip this year.
Best wishes and safe travel to all, and to all a good flight,
George Bass
USUA ID # 80399
USUA Club # 555
USUA Club # 770
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
HI Darrell
When I still had a cyuna on my ultrastar it would only go to 6250 rpm with a
50X30 prop. the only way you could get that rpm is your belts are slipping
or your tach. is wrong I would bet all my money on a bad tach. glad to here
that you had a safe and fun flight.
Randy still flying the soobydoo leaving for sun and fun Fri.. ( by car)
see you all there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
> Guys,
> Thanks for all the information being posted in reply to my question. I
> made a third flight late yesterday afternoon and experienced nothing close
> to a stall. I paid particular attention to my airspeed on takeoff and I
> also installed a visual reference on my windshield.
> One other thing that I failed to mention yesterday was the fact that
when
> I did a static runup of my engine (Cuyuna ULII-02), I achieved 7000 RPM on
> my tach and still had more throttle. Since the max RPM s/b 6500, I backed
> off on the throttle during runup. My temps were 300 and 1125. Based on
> others past comments on the list, I don't see how it is possible to
achieve
> so many RPMs with a Tenn 50X30 prop. I have my suspicions that the tach
is
> wrong; however, I have not received my tiny tach to verify the readings.
> When I take off, I never completely wind out the engine. I keep it in the
> 6600 RPM range, so I very may well be taking off underpowered. I won't be
> flying anymore until I have the answer on my tach. I'll keep you guys
> posted. DB in Bayou Country
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
| From: | <nielsenk(at)olg.com> |
This is one I feel I should respond to since I am currently building a FS
trailer. I purchased an old 20' camper for $200. (they are common) and
stripped it. Bless my wife who puts up with me. Anyways, total legnth is 22'
to the front of the propane tanks plate and it has tandem electric brakes. I
purchased 12 sticks of 14ga. 1" box 24' at or near $230. I'm not sure of the
siding and roof, but I believe I will use 29ga. gal. roofing with the small v-
notch at $1.05 per linear foot and I believe it is near 2' wide with the
overlap. I have built too many trailers to mention hear, but you can ask my
wife and my experience is to like the tandem axel due to the length of the
trailer and not the weight. The wind will push it around but the tandem axels
help prevent this.
Cap One
Quoting DAquaNut(at)aol.com:
>
> Group,
> Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
> torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I
> have
> the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I
> thought I
> would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> Thanks,
> Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I
> order my
> engine)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailer Springs ( Torsion Vs. Leaf ) |
| From: | <nielsenk(at)olg.com> |
This is one I feel I should respond to since I am currently building a FS
trailer. I purchased an old 20' camper for $200. (they are common) and
stripped it. Bless my wife who puts up with me. Anyways, total legnth is 22'
to the front of the propane tanks plate and it has tandem electric brakes. I
purchased 12 sticks of 14ga. 1" box 24' at or near $230. I'm not sure of the
siding and roof, but I believe I will use 29ga. gal. roofing with the small v-
notch at $1.05 per linear foot and I believe it is near 2' wide with the
overlap. I have built too many trailers to mention hear, but you can ask my
wife and my experience is to like the tandem axel due to the length of the
trailer and not the weight. The wind will push it around but the tandem axels
help prevent this.
Cap One
Quoting DAquaNut(at)aol.com:
>
> Group,
> Any one have any strong opinions on the pros or cons of leaf vs.
> torsion on a Kolb trailer. Also, Is it necessary to have dual axles. I
> have
> the plans that Duane the Plane used for his Firefly trailer, but I
> thought I
> would get as much input as I could before I start. Im ready to make a
> materials list. All input is appreciated including the negative.
> Thanks,
> Ed Diebel ( Got to build my trailer before I
> order my
> engine)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Tach Readings |
I wanted to let everyone know that I have recently spoken with the previous
owner of my UltraStar. He has confirmed that the tach is about 1000 RPM off
at full throttle which means that I was taking off way underpowered. I flew
yesterday about an hour using the new information and the US performed like
a totally different machine.
My only concern now is the fact that I cruise at 62-65 MPH with a throttle
setting of 5200-5400 RPM respectively. It is very easy to acheive VNE of 70
MPH well below full throttle while flying straight and level. Am I pushing
my luck running at the optimum cruise speed? If so, does anybody have any
suggestions? Thanks again, DB in Bayou Country
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Prosser <skywrench007(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Sun 'N Fun |
Did we decide what channel and code for the FRS radios?
Headed to Orlando on United from San Francisco....Don
--- Larry Bourne wrote:
>
>
> Be interesting to see who DOES fly the farthest...............OK,
> folks, we
> have 1313 miles, ...SNIP
http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad Tach Readings |
Am I pushing
> my luck running at the optimum cruise speed? If so, does anybody have any
> suggestions? Thanks again, DB in Bayou Country
DB/Gang:
What kind of ASI are you using? If it is a normal
pitot/static system it is probably 10 mph proud, unless you
have an accurate static pressure system.
I mentioned a few days ago about the Winter venturi operated
ASI. This is ideal for accuracy for the Ultrastar and
Firestar. No static pressure to fret about.
Northern Hydraulics/Northern Tools has Tiny Tachs with hour
meters and without for about $35.00. They are the same as
what the UL parts folks get twice the money.
john h
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Sun 'N Fun |
Far as I know, it's gonna be channel 4, code 4. Liable to be a busy channel
! ! !
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Prosser" <skywrench007(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FW: Sun 'N Fun
>
> Did we decide what channel and code for the FRS radios?
> Headed to Orlando on United from San Francisco....Don
> --- Larry Bourne wrote:
> >
> >
> > Be interesting to see who DOES fly the farthest...............OK,
> > folks, we
> > have 1313 miles, ...SNIP
>
> http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
Sun-N-Fun'ers,
I feel terrible to say this, but I have to cancel my trip to SNF.
I've come down with something I can't seem to shake & today my doctor (as
well as my body) says it wouldn't be too smart to go. I don't know what's
going to happen with the Sunday Cookout since I was suppose to be hosting
it. Please accept my apologies. ...Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
> I feel terrible to say this, but I have to cancel my trip to SNF.
Richard Swiderski
Richard/Gang:
Sorry to hear about your bug. Must be a real duzzie. Hope
you get to feeling better. Maybe you will by Sunday at
1700.
Kolbers are known to persevere. If we didn't, we would
never finish one of these Alabama Bug Smashers. I am sure
we will come up with something, if it is nothing other than
a change of location to a resturant in Lakeland. We ain't
gonna go hungry. Anyhow, the main purpose of the exercise
is to get together to put names on faces from the List, to
meet new folks, and to reaquaint ourselves with our old
buddies that we see only at S&F, OSH, or at the Kolb Flyin
at London.
Will be preparing for the flight to Lakeland tomorrow.
Starting to get antsy and excited about loading my gear on
the airplane and heading out. There is nothing more
exciting than traveling for a period of time with Kolb and
camping gear. No time constraints, no place I gotta be at
any specified time. Riding the wind, landing when it starts
to get dark, not sure where.
Oh well, see ya'll Saturday, weather, airplane, old body,
and the Lord willing,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
>> I feel terrible to say this, but I have to cancel my trip to SNF.
> Richard Swiderski
>
>Richard/Gang:
>
>Sorry to hear about your bug. Must be a real duzzie. Hope
>you get to feeling better. Maybe you will by Sunday at
>1700.
>
>Kolbers are known to persevere. If we didn't, we would
>never finish one of these Alabama Bug Smashers. I am sure
>we will come up with something,
>Oh well, see ya'll Saturday, weather, airplane, old body,
>and the Lord willing,
>
>john h
Well? - is there anybody left that is flying down???
Got these bunch of "yearlings" to try to explain
why they're ain't gonna' be nobody there (you see .. I been brag'n
about the Kolbs and all. I guess
I'll have to tell them there ain't no Santa Clause uh?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
Bad news, Richard. Hope you get to feeling better, and decide to make it
after all. Disappointed Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed
<swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
>
> Sun-N-Fun'ers,
>
> I feel terrible to say this, but I have to cancel my trip to SNF.
> I've come down with something I can't seem to shake & today my doctor (as
> well as my body) says it wouldn't be too smart to go. I don't know what's
> going to happen with the Sunday Cookout since I was suppose to be hosting
> it. Please accept my apologies. ...Richard Swiderski
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGreenpg(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
Richard,
Sorry to hear about your illness and I hope things get better soon. Thanks
for your generous offer to host the cookout to begin with.
Kolbers,
What about everyone meeting at the Kolb factory trailer between 5:30 and 6:00
and if there is enough vehicles to haul everyone we will go to a restaurant.
Steven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed |
I will be driving down and will have a vehicle to take people to a
restaurant.
Jim
Mark III
Charlotte, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: <SGreenpg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sun 'N Fun Plans Changed
>
> Richard,
> Sorry to hear about your illness and I hope things get better soon.
Thanks
> for your generous offer to host the cookout to begin with.
>
> Kolbers,
> What about everyone meeting at the Kolb factory trailer between 5:30 and
6:00
> and if there is enough vehicles to haul everyone we will go to a
restaurant.
>
> Steven
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jimmy <jhankin(at)planters.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron, rudder control |
Kolber's I have a question for you.
On a fellow flyer FireStar his control stick will go all the way forward
toward the instrument panel.
On my FireFly the stick will not go this far forward. It would be much
easier to get in and out of the FireFly if stick would go all the way
forward.
Can this be changed???
Jimmy Hankinson
912-863-7384
Rocky Ford, Ga. 30455
jhankin(at)planters.net
Kolb Firefly/447/200hrs
Local field, Pegasus/2000/Grass
Airport JYL/Sylvania, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Hatcher" <clive_hatcher(at)lineone.net> |
| Subject: | Sun and Fun Participants |
Many thanks to all of you who sent helpful
suggestions for visiting Sun 'N Fun.
Hope to see some of you there.
Best regards,
Clive. Mk III / 582 in UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
Hey Kolbers, I will be there Saturday morning thru Wednesday. I will be
coming in on northwest and renting a Ford Ranger truck (actually the
cheapest vechle,great). I am looking forward to meeting as many of you
folks as possible and definitely would like to go to dinner Sunday night.
Ford Ranger at our service.
Yes this is a different message then the Clive's but great minds think
alike!
See y'all Sunday!
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGreenpg(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sun 'N Fun arrival time |
In a message dated 4/3/02 7:06:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes:
>
> > Well? - is there anybody left that is flying down???
> Possum
>
Possum and all,
I plan to leave TN friday afternoon and stay the night in Dublin, GA then on
to Lakeland on Sat.
Steven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Sun 'N Fun |
Group,
Im just a little more than envious listening to all the talk
of sun n fun, but maybe Me & the Mrs. will get to go to the Kolb factory
fly-in this fall if they dont re -nig again this year. At any rate I want to
thank all who had something to say about axles & trailers. I saved all the
comments and will refer to them as I build my trailer. I hope Everyone has
a great time and makes some good memories and stories to share at the kolb
fly-in.
Ed Diebel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sandy Hegyi" <sandyh(at)dccnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re:floats for twin star |
I want to put my older (1987) twinstar on floats. It has a 532 so power
shouldn't be a problem. Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | magazine gleanings |
I noticed a couple interesting things in magazines this month. In
kitplanes they mentioned pressurizing the exhaust system with a shop vac
and checking for leaks at the manifolds etc and doing the same on the
intake side also. Simple idea and can save a lot of time trouble shooting.
In Ultraflight magazine they had a photo of an Ultrastar. You may have
to look twice to recognize it.
I will be glad when all this talk of Sun and Fun is over. I am getting
jealous. I can't make it but my flying buddy and fellow Mk111 builder
"Andy" will be there to represent me in absentia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re:floats for twin star |
Go with dual Full Lotus floats.
Lotus website has a very nice picture of a Twinstar on dual Lotus floats.
I have them on my MKIII already for 10 yrs.
See www.webcom.com/reynen for more info.
E-mail me for specifics
frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Hegyi" <sandyh(at)dccnet.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re:floats for twin star
>
> I want to put my older (1987) twinstar on floats. It has a 532 so power
> shouldn't be a problem. Any suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
I have just finished talking with New Kolb informing them that we were planning
to meet at their display at about 5 PM Sunday PM. I suggested that it would be
a big help if they could haul in some soft drinks for that occasion. They were
receptive so this may work out after all. The sun sets and the bugs take off
at about 7PM but we should all be on our way to a
restaurant by then. Kolb's lead Rep on site will be Donnie Sizemore.
For those of you who have not been to Lakeland before:
It will be warm with showers possible, wear sun hat, sun block, light
weight clothes,
it's spread out over several square miles so wear your walking shoes,
buy the guidebook on the way in, sit down and look at it to plan where you want
to go,
Sunday is the big crowd day, some of those exotic flying machines leave on Monday,
try to eat off-schedule to minimize time spent waiting in food lines,
the Port-o-lets are least revolting right after the clean-up contractor services
them,
make a list and bring money it's an aviator/builder's dream marketplace.
Hope this helps someone,
Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly/ Mk3 classic/912
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Reynen
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:floats for twin star
om>
Go with dual Full Lotus floats.
Lotus website has a very nice picture of a Twinstar on dual Lotus floats.
I have them on my MKIII already for 10 yrs.
See www.webcom.com/reynen for more info.
E-mail me for specifics
frank
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Hegyi" <sandyh(at)dccnet.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re:floats for twin star
>
> I want to put my older (1987) twinstar on floats. It has a 532 so power
> shouldn't be a problem. Any suggestions?
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SnF Getogether |
duane the plane:
Bring some 5 gal gas cans for us ground bound aviators,
please!!!
Will be a big help and save us a dime or two, maybe. With
the price of fuel going sky high, mogas will cost as much as
100LL.
Trying to get ready to go tomorrow.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
I can't make sun n fun ( that teaching thing) but I'm going to Oshkosh
anyone else. I will be R.V. ing so if anyone wants to stop by the Barbeque
will be lit!
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SnF Getogether |
John et al, Re gas cans for Kolb pilots at SnF,
I have 3 or 4 6 gal gas containers. Hopefully some of the locals can bring more.
I guess we won't be needing the barbie. I sure hope Richard gets well enough to
at least join us. This is gunna be fun....
Duane the plane
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: SnF Getogether
duane the plane:
Bring some 5 gal gas cans for us ground bound aviators,
please!!!
Will be a big help and save us a dime or two, maybe. With
the price of fuel going sky high, mogas will cost as much as
100LL.
Trying to get ready to go tomorrow.
john h
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SnF Getogether |
Hope to see all of the Kolb list gang at SNF
Randy Still flying the soobydoo
----- Original Message -----
From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: SnF Getogether
>
> John et al, Re gas cans for Kolb pilots at SnF,
>
> I have 3 or 4 6 gal gas containers. Hopefully some of the locals can bri> ng
more.
>
> I guess we won't be needing the barbie. I sure hope Richard gets well eno> ugh
to at least join us. This is gunna be fun....
>
> Duane the plane
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Hauck
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: SnF Getogether
>
>
> duane the plane:
>
> Bring some 5 gal gas cans for us ground bound aviators,
> please!!!
>
> Will be a big help and save us a dime or two, maybe. With
> the price of fuel going sky high, mogas will cost as much as
> 100LL.
>
> Trying to get ready to go tomorrow.
>
> john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Perkins <2scott(at)bellsouth.net> |
I've posted here before but I have not been that aggressive in selling
a Kolb Firefly kit for the family of a friend that died while building
it. I'd say the kit must be about two years old by now, and it is
complete as ordered, minus engine and instrument panel and covering
materials which are extra order items from Kolb.
The plane is about 40 or 50 percent built in that the fuselage is on
the main gear and the tail surfaces are installed and covered and
connected.
The wings and everything else are yet to be assembled but the ribs
are all made up.
I was considering towing it to SunFun and displaying but I got too good
an offer to ride with someone else.
the kit can be viewed in Marietta ( suburb of Atlanta ) after Sun Fun.
678 290-0507
Was asking $6,500 dollars but I believe that is quite negotiable now
as I have not sold it yet ....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
"Dianna Montgomery (E-mail)"
"Gary F. (E-mail)" ,
"Joy Barcus (E-mail)" ,
"Keith Tracton (E-mail)"
"'Kolb-List (E-mail)" ,
"Mary-Teresa James (E-mail)" ,
"Michael Bochenek (E-mail)" ,
"Reynaldo Mozo (E-mail)" ,
"'Rlink (E-mail)"
"'Scirrincione (E-mail)"
"Srfrchod (E-mail)" ,
"Terrence K. Moran (E-mail)" <Terrence.K.Moran@GAI-Tronics.com>
Just to update everyone once again my email has changed please adjust your
contact list.
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
Thank You
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | See You All In Lakeland |
Gang:
I have the truck loaded, a major accomplishment, and am
headed to the local country store to get aviation fuel, then
to Gantt Int AP to load Miss P'fer. We are headed to
seafood.
Duane the Plane: If you are in the area, stop by.
Will depart Panacea for Lakeland Sat morning.
Winds are raising Hell up here in Central Alabama, but at
least they are blowing the right direction. Tomorrow's
forecast for Lakeland is 15 to 20 mph out of the NE. Will
have a left crosswind, but maybe I can find a little help by
playing with altitude. I do not know what the winds aloft
are forecast for.
See ya in Lakeland Saturday afternoon,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GeoR38 <GeoR38(at)aol.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | SnF Kolb Getogether |
John Hauck departed Panacea Airport 0832 headed for LAL with 15 Kt tailwind. I
will see you all there Sunday for sure.
Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: GeoR38
Subject: Kolb-List: Border
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net> |
"Kolb-List" ,
"FlyChallenger"
Here's a link to the "write-up" in the Lakeland paper...for whatever they
are worth...(do I sound cynical about the media???)
http://www.theledger.com/
Looks alot like a classic high-wing/low-wing thing... Be safe boys and
girls...
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)ldl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fatal Errors |
A friend of mine sent me these reports of Kolb accidents:
NTSB Identification: MIA97LA192 . The docket is stored in the (offline)
NTSB Imaging System.
Accident occurred Saturday, June 21, 1997 at ORLANDO, FL
Aircraft:UNKNOWN KOLB FIRESTAR II, registration: NONE
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
After takeoff while performing touch-and-go water landings about 500
feet above ground level, during a right bank, the engine was heard to
backfire by a witness then the airplane was observed to pitch nose down
and descend into the lake. The airplane came to rest inverted and the
pilot was recovered by bystanders. The airplane was also recovered by
bystanders and examination of the airframe and flight controls by an FAA
airworthiness inspector revealed no preimpact failure or malfunction.
The engine which separated from the airplane was also recovered but was
not disassembled. Toxicological analysis was negative for all tested
drugs. The pilot had reportedly only flown the accident airplane on
about 5 flights for a total flight time of about 8 hours. He was advised
by a pilot friend that the airplane would stall at higher airspeeds with
the floats installed.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
Inadvertent stall by the pilot while turning from the upwind to the
crosswind leg. Contributing to the accident was the pilots lack of total
experience in the make and model airplane.
NTSB Identification: MIA97LA120 . The docket is stored in the (offline)
NTSB Imaging System.
Accident occurred Tuesday, April 08, 1997 at WINTER HAVEN, FL
Aircraft:Basinski KOLB MK3, registration: N128BB
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
Witnesses located at a seaplane base and boaters on a lake observed the
airplane making touch-and-go landings at the lake. The airplane took off
to the north and turned to the west. Blue and white smoke was observed
coming from the vicinity of the engine. The airplane appeared to loose
forward airspeed while in a climb at about 100 to 200 feet. The left
wing dropped, then the airplane entered a spin to the left and collided
with a house trailer and the ground. Examination revealed the oil sump
return line was disconnected from the oil sump, and oil was found on the
leading edge of the empennage (behind the engine). The oil sump was
empty, and the stainless steel clamp on the return line was loose. No
other precrash mechanical failure was found with the engine, airframe,
or flight controls.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
failure of the pilot to maintain airspeed after an oil leak occurred,
which resulted in an inadvertent stall/spin and subsequent collision
with a residence and the terrain. The oil leak and the pilot's diverted
attention were related factors.
NTSB Identification: MIA91LA096 . The docket is stored on NTSB
microfiche number 43304.
Accident occurred Tuesday, March 12, 1991 at BRONSON, FL
Aircraft:BARTHOLOMEW KOLB TWINSTAR, registration: N860RB
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
WITNESSES STATED THAT THE PILOT INITIATED THE FLIGHT KNOWING THAT THE
AIRSPEED INDICATOR WAS INOPERATIVE. THEY OBSERVED THE AIRPLANE ON FINAL
APPROACH WHEN IT ENTERED A STEEP LEFT 360-DEGREE TURN. THEY STATED THE
LEFT WING STALLED AND THE AIRPLANE PITCHED NOSE DOWN AND CRASHED.
EXAMINATION OF THE ENGINE, AIRPLANE AND FLIGHT CONTROLS REVEALED NO
PREIMPACT FAILURES.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
PILOT-IN-COMMAND'S DECISION TO INITIATE A FLIGHT WITH KNOWN DEFICIENCIES
IN HIS EQUIPMENT IN THAT HIS AIRSPEED INDICATOR WAS INOPERATIVE. HE THEN
FAILED TO MAINTAIN AIRSPEED IN A TURN ON FINAL APPROACH, STALLED, AND
CRASHED.
NTSB Identification: FTW99FA016 . The docket is stored in the (offline)
NTSB Imaging System.
Accident occurred Friday, October 23, 1998 at BRYAN, TX
Aircraft:kolb TWINSTAR TA-2, registration: N4281Z
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
A witness observed a shinny piece of metal trailing behind the
ultralight. The witness stated that 'the nose of the ultralight bobbed
up and down a couple of times' followed by the 'airplane nosing over to
the near vertical position.' According to the manufacturer, the
ultralight is not equipped with an elevator trim tab. Trim in the
standard ultralight is accomplished by adjusting the spring tension on
the elevator control cable from inside the fuselage cage near the
control stick. The accident ultralight had been modified by the addition
of a fabric covered trim tab surface on the trailing edge of the left
elevator. The silver painted trim tab measured approximately 5 by 20
inches. Paint transfers, chaffing and rubbing found on the rudder and
right elevator indicated that the elevator trim tab had separated from
the trailing edge of the left elevator prior to ground impact. The
mounting for the outboard bracket, supporting one side of the trim tab,
was found loose. Paint transfer and chaffing on the trailing edge of the
elevator indicated that the bracket had been loose prior to the
accident.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
The pilot's loss of control as result of the partial separation of the
elevator trim tab resulting in the inability to maintain aircraft
control. A factor was the improper design and installation of the
elevator trim tab.
NTSB Identification: NYC97LA121 . The docket is stored in the (offline)
NTSB Imaging System.
Accident occurred Monday, June 09, 1997 at GILBERTSVILLE, PA
Aircraft:Robbins KOLB FIRESTAR, registration: NONE
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Serious.
The noncertificated operator/owner of the unregistered ultralight and a
passenger departed on a local flight. They had planned to fly over a
shopping center, and the passenger stated that they liked to 'fly low
and wave at people on the ground. When they arrived at the shopping
center, they flew over it 'just above building height.' Witnesses
observed two ultralights making low passes over the shopping center. The
accident ultralight was observed to turn towards a tethered blimp. The
ultralight then banked about 90 degrees away from the blimp, descended,
and struck the ground. The ultralight remained intact and the engine
continued to operate until impact. There were no maintenance records for
the vehicle that was equipped with a single set of flight controls. The
FAA Inspector classified the vehicle as a homebuilt airplane due to the
dual seats, 10 gallon fuel capacity, and his estimate that the vehicle
weight was 300 pounds. The operator had based the ultralight at a
licensed airport for about 3 years. FAA records indicated that 24
surveillance's had been conducted at the airport during the previous 24
months, and that no ultralights had been observed or inspected for
compliance with Part 103.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
The noncertificated operator's improper decision to fly low over a
congested area, which resulted in an abrupt maneuver to avoid a
collision with a tethered blimp, and the subsequent uncontrolled descent
and collision with terrain.
NTSB Identification: CHI91DER10 . The docket is stored on NTSB
microfiche number 46590.
Accident occurred Saturday, June 29, 1991 at STAPLES, MN
Aircraft:KOLB TWINSTAR MK II, registration: N503BP
Injuries: 1 Serious.
WITNESSES REPORTED THEY WATCHED THE ULTRALIGHT TAKE OFF AND NOTED THE
ELEVATOR OSCILLATING RAPIDLY, 'FLUTTERING.' THEY STATED THE AIRCRAFT
CLIMBED TO ABOUT 200 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND (AGL), THEN THE PILOT BEGAN A
TURN BACK TOWARD THE AIRPORT. ACCORDING TO ONE WITNESS: 'THE AIRPLANE
STALLED, WENT INTO A SPIN AND CRASHED.' THE ULTRALIGHT IMPACTED TERRAIN
IN A MARSHY AREA LESS THAN ONE MILE FROM THE DEPARTURE AIRPORT. POST
ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION REVEALED THE TRIM TAB CONTROL CABLE HAD UNSPOOLED
FROM THE TRIM TAB WHEEL.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows.
THE DISCONNECTED ELEVATOR TRIM CABLE. RELATED FACTORS ARE THE INADEQUATE
MAINTENANCE/INSTALLATION, AND THE PILOT'S INABILITY TO MAINTAIN AIRCRAFT
CONTROL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | INBOARD LEADING EDGE |
Hello fellow builders, is there any use for the inboard leading edge other
then to support the soft gap seal? I would like to cut it to accommodate my
big head. I plan on making a solid gap seal. Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: INBOARD LEADING EDGE |
In a message dated 4/7/02 3:56:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ronoy(at)shentel.net
writes:
> A while back some overly tall fellow used a plastic mixing bowl for the
> bottom of the gap section. Maybe in archives? Maybe someone will
> remember more than I can.
>
> Bob N. full 5'-7.314159"
>
>
Well, that would be me. With my helmet on I still didn't have enough
clearance.
I cut the L.E. tube in the gap-seal area to about 1 1/2" long & installed a
couple of those black clips with nuts built in [?] on the bottom of those
tubes.
I then cut the whole bottom off the standard Kolb aluminum & Lexan gap-seal,
as well as cut a crescent-shaped area out of it's leading edge- leaving only
enough to wrap around the 1 1/2" long pipes & get screws [1/4-20] in to the
nut clips.
So the gap seal is only held on with the two screws at the front and the rest
is 2" industrial strength Velcro.
I do recommend plugging the L.E. pipes with something at the root rib to keep
critters out.
I can detect no difference in flight characteristics, but I have lots of head
clearance.
Shack
FS I
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd O'Dell" <wander10(at)infi.net> |
| Subject: | tachometer wiring |
Hello Kolb builders,
Does anyone know how to hook up a three wire tachometer to a Rotex?
It has a red, a black, and a white wire.
Lloyd wander10(at)infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: INBOARD LEADING EDGE |
Don't know if this will help in your situation but in my Mk X (formerly
mk111) I changed the seating to semi reclining without any structural
changes and I have enough headroom to lower the roof a bit to increase some
aerodynamic efficiency. Check photo page for pictures.
>
>Hello fellow builders, is there any use for the inboard leading edge other
>then to support the soft gap seal? I would like to cut it to accommodate my
>big head. I plan on making a solid gap seal. Any suggestions appreciated.
>Thanks,
>
>David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
Darrell,
I agree with everything that has been said. Keep the RPM's up, airspeed
about 45 on climbout is good, 40 mph is best angle of climb at full
throttle.
And by all means DO practice crow hops. An Ultrastar WILL stall and if it
happens at 10-20 ft you are going to be replacing landing gear. Much higher
and it gets worse.
I installed Vortex generators on my US. I took Jack Harts advice and
installed them in the scallops of the false ribs. I did not install on the
inboard most three scallops on both sides. However I made my vortex
generators differently then Jacks. Mine are wider, longer, and not tapered,
just the sharp corners taken off. My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL, it goes into
an accelerated controllable mush at about 30-32mph and I can fly it all the
way to the ground like that. Email me if you want more info.
John Anderson
*******************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Bailey" <dbailey5033(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
> Guys,
> Thanks for all the information being posted in reply to my question. I
> made a third flight late yesterday afternoon and experienced nothing close
> to a stall. I paid particular attention to my airspeed on takeoff and I
> also installed a visual reference on my windshield.
> One other thing that I failed to mention yesterday was the fact that
when
> I did a static runup of my engine (Cuyuna ULII-02), I achieved 7000 RPM on
> my tach and still had more throttle. Since the max RPM s/b 6500, I backed
> off on the throttle during runup. My temps were 300 and 1125. Based on
> others past comments on the list, I don't see how it is possible to
achieve
> so many RPMs with a Tenn 50X30 prop. I have my suspicions that the tach
is
> wrong; however, I have not received my tiny tach to verify the readings.
> When I take off, I never completely wind out the engine. I keep it in the
> 6600 RPM range, so I very may well be taking off underpowered. I won't be
> flying anymore until I have the answer on my tach. I'll keep you guys
> posted. DB in Bayou Country
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: INBOARD LEADING EDGE |
They are only needed for the fabric gap seal. If you are making a rigid gap
seal you can cut them off. Actually it is better to cut them off (if you
don't have the fabric gap seal) as their presence makes it easier to punch a
hole in your fuselage fabric when folding and unfolding the wings.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: INBOARD LEADING EDGE
>
> Hello fellow builders, is there any use for the inboard leading edge other
> then to support the soft gap seal? I would like to cut it to accommodate
my
> big head. I plan on making a solid gap seal. Any suggestions appreciated.
> Thanks,
>
> David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/08/02 |
I realize everyone says that the center tubing on the gap seal is not
necessary but without it, you can take the wing inboard section and move it
up and down a little. if it moves a little, it can move a lot. by putting a
sliding tube over the two sections, it ties the two wings together and
becomes stronger. might not be necessary but it brings comfort to my mind
knowing one wing isnt going to rise a little higher than the other during
rough operations. my sliding section came off a crashed dac I owned earlier
in my days. the center section also keeps the fabric nice and tight and a
neat looking leading edge. just what I do. ted cowan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
I currently am using the fabric gap seal on my Ultrastar, I may be
interested in converting to a rigid gap seal IF I can convert without
recovering the wings.
I did some searches on Matronics and this subject has been discussed
repeatedly however I still have a few questions.
Lexan seems to be the material of choice, does it wrap all the way around
the leading edge and cover the bottom?
Since I trailer everytime I go flying, how easy is it to install?
Anyone got plans or pictures they would be willing to send me so I can see
how it is done?
What about flight performance - I saw one comment that the person felt the
ridgid gap seal gave better lift - concensus?
John Anderson
*******************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | philip condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: Crow Hopping -- Maybe bad advise |
Many experienced pilots and instructors have cautioned AGAINST the
training drill known as Crow Hopping. What might appear as a natural
progression from fast taxi to crow hopping to actual flying may indeed
prove more accident causing. From what I recall the jest of the argument
is that the most critical phase of this portion of flight is the moment
of transition from fast taxi to flight. Winds, p-factor,over correcting
or to much control input, runway conditions, slow or dead feet on the
rudders, mis-applied or mis timed control inputs (VERY common problem of
lead/lag where you are a moment to late with the correction and end up
to late for the desired correction and end up in a whole series of
these inputs or corrections because you were trained that the correct
input should be, but its not working....when the problem is timing). At
any rate, placing yourself in the critical situation with crow hopping
may indeed be more accident causing then first thought. Get good and
competent dual instruction and research this issue for yourself before
blindly accepting the notion of crow hopping is good (or bad)........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
John,
I use a lexan gap seal on my firestar. Leading edge is a formed piece of
aluminum and it has aluminum strips along the top edge to stiffen the lexan.
I found that the airpressure had a tendency to pull on the lexan and work
the gap seal loose. THe overlap along the root rib is 1 in. and is held in
place with 1 in. velcro top and bottom. There is stiffener in the center
just ahead of the forward root rib attachment point. It takes about 30 sec.
to install or remove the gap seal. I keep my plane in a trailer also. I will
try and send pictures..
can't speak for the performance since I have always used it but it diffently
lets in more light>>>
I just remembered. Will Uribe stopped by the airport a week ago and happen
to take a couple pictures of my plane. Look at p3302025. It is not a close
up but you can see the gap seal.
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/visit/
It was nice meeting with and taking to Will. I enjoyed following his and
Dave's trip last summer. I hope some day to be able to make a long cross
country excursion.
Regards,
John Wood
Firestar II N670JW
-----Original Message-----
From: John Anderson [mailto:janderson3(at)nc.rr.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: Gap Seal
I currently am using the fabric gap seal on my Ultrastar, I may be
interested in converting to a rigid gap seal IF I can convert without
recovering the wings.
I did some searches on Matronics and this subject has been discussed
repeatedly however I still have a few questions.
Lexan seems to be the material of choice, does it wrap all the way around
the leading edge and cover the bottom?
Since I trailer everytime I go flying, how easy is it to install?
Anyone got plans or pictures they would be willing to send me so I can see
how it is done?
What about flight performance - I saw one comment that the person felt the
ridgid gap seal gave better lift - concensus?
John Anderson
*******************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
Thanks for the link - but it doesn't work, I get a url not found........
John Anderson
*******************
----- Original Message -----
From: <TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gap Seal
> http://hometown.aol.com/cavuontop/n496bm.html. Take a look at this gap
seal.
> It's exactly what I want.
>
>
> David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: Crow Hopping -- Maybe bad advise |
----- Original Message -----
From: "philip condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: Crow Hopping -- Maybe bad advise
>At
> any rate, placing yourself in the critical situation with crow hopping
> may indeed be more accident causing then first thought. Get good and
> competent dual instruction and research this issue for yourself before
> blindly accepting the notion of crow hopping is good (or bad)........
>
>
Very valid arguement, When I first started to fly my US there were no two
place ultralights, so I got about 15 hrs dual in a C150. I felt comfortable
with the flying part, it was the take off and landings that I was concerned
about, plus tranitioning to a tail dragger. I started doing crow hops,
build up the speed, pop her off the ground and set her back down. Then it
was get it up fly it in ground effect for the length of the runway, set her
down. On one of these passes I stalled at about ten ft, trashed my landing
gear and broke the outward most rib on my new plane, bo whoo hoo.
By all means get instruction in the same type of plane as you are flying.
From what I have read here dual in a mark III or twinstar should prepare you
to transition to any kolb.
John Anderson
*******************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
Has anyone mixed a silver with a dark color to brighten it up? Or just a
metal flake to a color? Any suggestions appreciated.
David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Carlisle <rrcarl(at)nhvt.net> |
John...
I'd like to see some detailed pics also...
Thanks...Ross
> From: "Wood, John T." <woodjt(at)spawar.navy.mil>
> Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:01:32 -0700
> To: "'kolb-list(at)matronics.com'"
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Gap Seal
>
>
> John,
>
> I use a lexan gap seal on my firestar. Leading edge is a formed piece of
> aluminum and it has aluminum strips along the top edge to stiffen the lexan.
> I found that the airpressure had a tendency to pull on the lexan and work
> the gap seal loose. THe overlap along the root rib is 1 in. and is held in
> place with 1 in. velcro top and bottom. There is stiffener in the center
> just ahead of the forward root rib attachment point. It takes about 30 sec.
> to install or remove the gap seal. I keep my plane in a trailer also. I will
> try and send pictures..
>
> can't speak for the performance since I have always used it but it diffently
> lets in more light>>>
>
> I just remembered. Will Uribe stopped by the airport a week ago and happen
> to take a couple pictures of my plane. Look at p3302025. It is not a close
> up but you can see the gap seal.
> http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/visit/
>
> It was nice meeting with and taking to Will. I enjoyed following his and
> Dave's trip last summer. I hope some day to be able to make a long cross
> country excursion.
>
> Regards,
> John Wood
> Firestar II N670JW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Anderson [mailto:janderson3(at)nc.rr.com]
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Gap Seal
>
>
>
> I currently am using the fabric gap seal on my Ultrastar, I may be
> interested in converting to a rigid gap seal IF I can convert without
> recovering the wings.
>
> I did some searches on Matronics and this subject has been discussed
> repeatedly however I still have a few questions.
>
> Lexan seems to be the material of choice, does it wrap all the way around
> the leading edge and cover the bottom?
>
> Since I trailer everytime I go flying, how easy is it to install?
>
> Anyone got plans or pictures they would be willing to send me so I can see
> how it is done?
>
> What about flight performance - I saw one comment that the person felt the
> ridgid gap seal gave better lift - concensus?
>
>
> John Anderson
> *******************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 04/09/02 |
well, everybody, hold onto your hats cause traditional training as we know it
will soon come to an end. under the new rules, as I understand them, the
newbees will be training in factory planes - unless they happen to own their
own. that will be about the only way they will get to practice with what we
know as an ultralite instructor. I still have trouble believing the all
powerful FAA is gonna make us go back to illegal training sessions! there is
no incentive for a now bfi to convert and still train in an ultralite of his
own. what in the hell are they thinking!!!!!! I use the crow hop method as
they call it because it is still the most effective way to get a newbee used
to his plane. they dont actually excelerate to take off and then kill back
the throttle. they are instructed to actually take off only stay low and
under lower power and keep power on to fly accross the field and then land
UNDER POWER. If they are not smart enough to follow directions, I dont want
them here anyway. the ulternative is to have them take off and hope like
hell they can get back down alive. what kind of training is that. factory
planes an ultralite pilot do not make. you gotta get instruction in what you
are going to fly. do you really think they are going to go out and buy a
plane and THEN find someone to instruct them? I think not. we are going to
back to illegal instructions and killem flying of the 80s. I know I am
going to take flack on this but this method works if you know what in the
hell you are doing and have competent people behing the stick. ted cowan,
alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Ted, I'm in your corner on this one. When I get my plane running
I'm going to fast taxi that bugger up and down the runway until lunch
time. (that's lunch not launch). Helps if you have a nice wide private
grass strip, or better yet, an "airfield" like the English had in the
early
days.--no problem with wind direction. BN, does the Flying Circus
in BealetonVA still exist? They had a nice one. --BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | singers(at)greenhills.net |
| Subject: | New 503 for sale |
I have a brand new never out of the box Rotax 503 DCDI with the "E"
2.62 ratio gear box for sale. I have decided on using another engine so
I will sell the whole engine "kit" as I received it, still in the box
and bags. This kit was for a pusher design (Chinook) and will include,
Rotax 503 DCDI with "E" gearbox and starter (this combo is 7 pounds
lighter, quieter, stronger and absorbes more vibration than the 503 with
the C gearbox and mag end starter), muffler with stainless steel clamps,
Dual carbs, dual carb K&N air filter, dual carb fuel pump, pulse line,
dual carb throttle cable/splitter, mag switch wire, Tympanium
rectifier-regulator, dual 2" Westach CHT with probes and extensions,
dual 2" Westach EGT with probes and extensions (screw in to match the
exhaust manifold) and a Westach 2" tach. This is over a $5000 value
that I will sell for $3995.00 U.S. Let me know as soon as possible if
you're interested. Everything is still in the original boxes and should
ship easily. I might even be talked into delivering it within 200 miles
of Chillicothe Mo. for free and futher for expenses. With more coaxing,
I might part with the new GSC 3 blade prop. Like everything else, this
is new never used and is beautiful. I believe the blades are made of
maple and have the leading edge protection. Bob in Missouri
singers(at)greenhills.net
660-646-5292 (no collect calls)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com> |
Who of you have shortened the doors on their Mk III??
Do you like them that way, other benefits, etc.?
I'm replacing all my Lexan so now is the time to re-configure them.
thanks
=====
John & Lynn Richmond :-)
Palm Coast, Fl.
Mk3 582, 41 hrs
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
04/10/2002 12:31:32 PM
Ah yes, the old crow hopping debate rears its ugly head.
Gobs on this in the archives. My personal opinion is that crow hopping is
very worthwhile, but that it needs to be done in the proper environment. A
wide open dry lake bed is ideal. Short of that, a nice long and wide
runway on a very unbusy day will suffice.
I think most will agree flying the plane with plenty of altitude is pretty
easy stuff. Its flying in immediate proximity to the ground that takes
concentration and skill and its where we are most likely to screw up. To
get the skill, you must have plenty of experience in that zone that makes
the newcomers most nervous - right next to the ground. You must know how
to control the plane and make precise corrections. The input to the
controls is very different when you are at slow speeds and in ground effect
than when you are up cruising around at several thousand feet.
Anyway, my point is that you can only get that experience by putting
yourself in that position time after time after time. And crow hopping
will get you that experience way faster than doing one touch and go at a
time. You just need to use some common sense. Only do it under conditions
(location, weather, traffic etc) you are comfortable with. As you get the
experience, you can start pushing the envelope a little at a time.
I recently convinced myself to go up and practice landings at the airport
with moderately strong cross winds, gusting at times. I got pushed around
a lot and made a lot of go- arounds, and a few pretty ugly landings. But
there was zero traffic, and no pressure that I absolutely had to make any
particular landing. I really felt proud of the good landings I was able to
make. A great learning experience, and best of all, it really helps in
boosting your confidence that you CAN get the plane down when bad
conditions occur.
Fly safe,
Erich Weaver
erich_weaver(at)urscorp.com
130 Robin Hill Road, Suite 100
Santa Barbara, California 93117
Tel: 805-964-6010
fax: 805-964 0259
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- Bob Bean writes:
From: Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: fast taxi
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:08:14 -0400
Ted, I'm in your corner on this one. When I get my plane running
I'm going to fast taxi that bugger up and down the runway until lunch
time. (that's lunch not launch). Helps if you have a nice wide private
grass strip, or better yet, an "airfield" like the English had in the
early
days.--no problem with wind direction. BN, does the Flying Circus
in BealetonVA still exist? They had a nice one. --BB
Bob and others,
I'm referring to a pilot with no previous experience.
One pitfall of crowhopping, other than what has been talked about, is the pilot
gets used to steering the plane down the runway in a fast taxi using the rudder.
All is fine and dandy until it becomes airborne. He has built upon his new
experience until the plane wants to go off the side. At this point he automatically
pushes the rudder to turn. This very thing happened to a friend of mine
and he told me right afterwards that it would not steer back. The ailerons aren't
effective in a fast taxi and the pilots first reaction is to steer with the
rudder.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov> |
I really don't have strong feelings about crow hopping but I have a few
words of caution. Our Kolbs have a high thrust line that causes the
plane to pitch up when the power is cut and nose down when power is
increased. When crowhopping a new pilot cuts the power close to the
ground the plane will nose up and gain altitude without a lot of
airspeed. This will ruin your day. This can also be a problem if you are
taxing a bit too fast. You can cut the power and be in the air before
your ready. PLEASE instruct new Kolb pilots to move the stick forward
with any power reductions. Actually you don't move the stick much if at
all, you just add some forward pressure on the stick or release some
rear pressure from the stick depending on how its trimmed.
My $.02
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIII
>>> ul15rhb(at)juno.com 04/10/02 01:17PM >>>
---------- Bob Bean writes:
From: Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: fast taxi
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:08:14 -0400
Ted, I'm in your corner on this one. When I get my plane running
I'm going to fast taxi that bugger up and down the runway until lunch
time. (that's lunch not launch). Helps if you have a nice wide private
grass strip, or better yet, an "airfield" like the English had in the
early
days.--no problem with wind direction. BN, does the Flying Circus
in BealetonVA still exist? They had a nice one. --BB
Bob and others,
I'm referring to a pilot with no previous experience.
One pitfall of crowhopping, other than what has been talked about, is
the pilot gets used to steering the plane down the runway in a fast taxi
using the rudder. All is fine and dandy until it becomes airborne. He
has built upon his new experience until the plane wants to go off the
side. At this point he automatically pushes the rudder to turn. This
very thing happened to a friend of mine and he told me right afterwards
that it would not steer back. The ailerons aren't effective in a fast
taxi and the pilots first reaction is to steer with the rudder.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TAILDRAGGER503(at)aol.com |
I think the key is, slow, slow, slow and gradual which requires alot of
patients.
David Snyder Building FSII Long Branch N.J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Short doors ?? |
John & Co, I just bought a sheet of Lexan MR10 from the local
GE Polymershapes outlet. Expensive, but it has a hard surface on
both sides that is extremely scratch resistant.Plexi is also available
with the hard surface and when I do doors I will probably use that
as impact resistance is not a factor there. -BB
John Richmond wrote:
>
> Who of you have shortened the doors on their Mk III??
>
> Do you like them that way, other benefits, etc.?
>
> I'm replacing all my Lexan so now is the time to re-configure them.
>
> thanks
>
> =====
> John & Lynn Richmond :-)
> Palm Coast, Fl.
> Mk3 582, 41 hrs
>
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
The lexan works very well for almost everything I've used it
for............but............take John Wood's advice, and make the leading
edge out of aluminum. The lexan is a bear to form. Much easier to rivet it
to an aluminum leading edge.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Gap Seal
>
> I currently am using the fabric gap seal on my Ultrastar, I may be
> interested in converting to a rigid gap seal IF I can convert without
> recovering the wings.
>
> I did some searches on Matronics and this subject has been discussed
> repeatedly however I still have a few questions.
>
> Lexan seems to be the material of choice, does it wrap all the way around
> the leading edge and cover the bottom?
>
> Since I trailer everytime I go flying, how easy is it to install?
>
> Anyone got plans or pictures they would be willing to send me so I can see
> how it is done?
>
> What about flight performance - I saw one comment that the person felt the
> ridgid gap seal gave better lift - concensus?
>
>
> John Anderson
> *******************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
Am I the only one back home ?? I have to say that the last week
has been one of the most enjoyable of my life ! ! ! Stayed with the
"Aluminum Butcher of Brandon" for a few days, and talked him 1/2 to
death................but Beauford and his family were very patient with
the ol' Lar, made me welcome, and I felt very much at home, and very
comfortable. Don't you guys believe all his B.S. about his plane,
either............he did a beautiful job on it. I spent 2 full days
making a loop down past Lake Okeechobee, then down into the Everglades,
and on to Everglades City, where I bought a 1/2 hr ride in a Cessna 185
on amphibious floats. This was after a 45 minute airboat ride just up
the road. WOW ! ! ! That young fella driving the airboat (which had a
454 Chevy engine with redrive, and an enormous 3 blade prop ) and I
struck a rapport, and he gave me a ride that few tourists get to
enjoy..........and probably that few would want. Ever swapped ends at
30 mph going down a muddy waterway ??............several times in
succession ?? First one stood my hair on end, and it got
better...........much better, from there. I was grinning so hard my
jaws ached. He even has a couple of alligators trained to eat
marshmallows..............no, I'm not kidding, and they came right to
the boat. One was only 2 or 3 ft long, but the other was a lot bigger,
at about 4 or 5 ft. Neat. Then, on the airplane ride, I got a good
look at where I'd been roaring around in the airboat. Also got a pic of
a Manatee. ( Looks like a tiny brown comma in the pic, but I know it's
a Manatee, cause I saw it dive.) Great stuff, and a whole different
perspective. Put over 1000 miles on that rental car in just a few days.
Sun n Fun is at least everything it's cracked up to
be................very similar to, but much better......and
bigger........than Copperstate and Golden West. I did enjoy all that,
the airshows, the planes, displays, and so on, but I can do all that
here. My whole excuse for flying clear across the country was to meet
some of the people I've come to think of as friends over the last 4
years, and I did meet quite a few. Also missed many of you. The get
together at the airshow was fun, and enjoyable, but I'll tell ya, Sports
Fans...................next year, we gotta get EVERYBODY out there, and
go to Sonny's for BBQ. Best ribs I ever ate, and great company. Thanks
everybody..............I've seldom enjoyed myself so much.
Tired and Happy Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Short doors ?? |
Hi John,
I have been flying with the short doors on my Lotus floats equipped MKIII
for 10 yrs during the summertime and I like them a lot if you keep your
airspeed down to around 60 MPH
They do give better slow speed performance by increasing the airflow over
the centersection.
You would also have to remove the backwindows.
For more info on the short doors, see my TechIinfo page on my website.
www.webcom.com/reynen
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Richmond" <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Short doors ??
>
>
> Who of you have shortened the doors on their Mk III??
>
> Do you like them that way, other benefits, etc.?
>
> I'm replacing all my Lexan so now is the time to re-configure them.
>
> thanks
>
> =====
> John & Lynn Richmond :-)
> Palm Coast, Fl.
> Mk3 582, 41 hrs
>
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TCowan1917(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02 |
you go Dean. Just take it easy, slow and short steps. if you are under
power you will have control. I ALWAYS take their plane and play with it
first before each session to allow myself to concentrate on what HE will be
feeling. Going slow allows the student to become accustomed to the guages,
feel, VIBRATION, etc. of the plane at different attitudes. I relay that
information and tell them to do exactly what I did and what to watch for and
expect. also, I stay at least one step beyond that to explane to them what
to watch for at that point and what to do. After a few hours of taxiiing
around, they generally have a feel for the plane. If you learn to take off,
fly straight and level at about twenty feel high, land under power, you are
your own master. When you own the last twenty feet, you are ready. When you
can pick it up and set her down time and time again, even as the wind picks
up, you are ready to solo when your MIND is ready. nobody can help you once
you leave the ground. I for one would much rather have myself or someone
else land hard from ten or twenty feet than from five hundred at sixty miles
an hour. Good thing a lot of us can do this cause this might be all the
training the little buggers are going to get later. Very right about the
kolb pitching when power is added or reduced so do it gently. I fly my
little kolb, challenger duce, a mini max and possible an eagle duce all in
one day right after one another and that my friend, really gets you focused.
each has their own kinks and you have to think on your feet. makes my day
when I do that. just running my mouth, sorry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe-Home" <moejoe(at)comcast.net> |
Hi guys. I recently sold my RV8 kit, and I have some tools left over. Take a
look at http://www.tabshred.com/moe/avery.htm to see a list with prices.
Thanks,
Moe Colontonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Group,
I'm installing the VLS 1050 on my Mark III - this is the low profile
model, not the canister.
Wondering what others have done with the gap seal on this install. Read
the manual, and it talks about the strength & energy of the rocket to
penetrate various fabrics etc...
The rocket tube will be free and clear, but has anyone put the lexan,
for the top of the gap seal, over the "chute container"? Or, is it
better to have a cut out of the lexan around the top of the chute
container so that the whole assembly is completely free & clear? ie: the
entire assembly is exposed to the the air stream with nothing covering
it.
Look forward to any comments or suggestions.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Jones" <jeffrey.jones(at)interactivetechnologies.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02 |
Ted speaks it well......I am a product of his advice. What a smooth
transition my first flight around the patch after my rear end had
acquired the feeling flight through crow hopping. Must point out....I
was never told "Schools Out" go home. Loving my Ultra Star and got to
fly with Kolber Gene Ledbetter when he flew down for a visit.
Jeff
Burlington KY
Ultra Star
----- Original Message -----
From: TCowan1917(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02
you go Dean. Just take it easy, slow and short steps. if you are
under
power you will have control. I ALWAYS take their plane and play with
it
first before each session to allow myself to concentrate on what HE
will be
feeling. Going slow allows the student to become accustomed to the
guages,
feel, VIBRATION, etc. of the plane at different attitudes. I relay
that
information and tell them to do exactly what I did and what to watch
for and
expect. also, I stay at least one step beyond that to explane to them
what
to watch for at that point and what to do. After a few hours of
taxiiing
around, they generally have a feel for the plane. If you learn to
take off,
fly straight and level at about twenty feel high, land under power,
you are
your own master. When you own the last twenty feet, you are ready.
When you
can pick it up and set her down time and time again, even as the wind
picks
up, you are ready to solo when your MIND is ready. nobody can help
you once
you leave the ground. I for one would much rather have myself or
someone
else land hard from ten or twenty feet than from five hundred at sixty
miles
an hour. Good thing a lot of us can do this cause this might be all
the
training the little buggers are going to get later. Very right about
the
kolb pitching when power is added or reduced so do it gently. I fly
my
little kolb, challenger duce, a mini max and possible an eagle duce
all in
one day right after one another and that my friend, really gets you
focused.
each has their own kinks and you have to think on your feet. makes my
day
when I do that. just running my mouth, sorry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
If you put lexan over that thing, make absolutely sure you provide some kind
of breakaway thru it for that rocket. Lexan is like transparent
steel.............very, very tough stuff.............they use it for
bulletproof glass now. Possibly, if you don't have any sharp bends, you
could use thin plexiglass ?? That stuff shatters pretty easily. In fact
you gotta be real careful working with it, cause it breaks at a dirty look.
Possibly a hinged door over it, with plastic or wood retainer pins would
work. Something like the hoods on some off-road rigs.
Experienced Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: BRS Install
>
> Hi Group,
>
> I'm installing the VLS 1050 on my Mark III - this is the low profile
> model, not the canister.
>
> Wondering what others have done with the gap seal on this install. Read
> the manual, and it talks about the strength & energy of the rocket to
> penetrate various fabrics etc...
>
> The rocket tube will be free and clear, but has anyone put the lexan,
> for the top of the gap seal, over the "chute container"? Or, is it
> better to have a cut out of the lexan around the top of the chute
> container so that the whole assembly is completely free & clear? ie: the
> entire assembly is exposed to the the air stream with nothing covering
> it.
>
> Look forward to any comments or suggestions.
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
A couple more passing thoughts...................after all the talk
about the radios, nobody used them. I spoke briefly with Jon Croke on
mine, when I first got there, then nothing. Beauford and I used them
between rigs when going home Sunday, and they were crystal clear.
Better than the FRS units I used in Mexico. Wha' hoppen, guys ??
Also, what's with the TNK people ?? They weren't friendly at
all..............almost seemed to resent the fuss in front of their
trailer. Haven't they heard that the best advertising is a satisfied
customer ??
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, Ca.
Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Chris,
I have a VLS (900 lbs) mounted in the gapseal and it is even with the
aluminum leading edge at the front and then slopes up to about two inch
above the gapseal cut-out at the back using my own brackets.The gapseal (now
two parts) slides off without disturbing the VLS or rocket.
I removed the center rib and added two ribs on the side of the VLS to
support the lexan.
I do not think it is an acceptable idea to cover the VLS with solid lexan
or anything else after looking at the tiny cables and linkage that connects
the rocket to the VLS lid.
It looks flimsy to me but I have never heard this to fail but would not add
any restrictions to a fast and complete pull-out of the chute in an
emergency.
I want the chute to come out and deploy fast and clean.This is worth more to
me than cosmetics and streamlining.
Just my 5 cents on this.
Frank Reynen MKIII (#022)on Lotus floats 780hrs
www.webcom.com/reynen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: BRS Install
>
> Hi Group,
>
> I'm installing the VLS 1050 on my Mark III - this is the low profile
> model, not the canister.
>
> Wondering what others have done with the gap seal on this install. Read
> the manual, and it talks about the strength & energy of the rocket to
> penetrate various fabrics etc...
>
> The rocket tube will be free and clear, but has anyone put the lexan,
> for the top of the gap seal, over the "chute container"? Or, is it
> better to have a cut out of the lexan around the top of the chute
> container so that the whole assembly is completely free & clear? ie: the
> entire assembly is exposed to the the air stream with nothing covering
> it.
>
> Look forward to any comments or suggestions.
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02 |
| From: | William George <WGeorge(at)macrev.com> |
on 4/10/02 8:50 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server at
kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com wrote:
> From: John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Short doors ??
>
>
>
> Who of you have shortened the doors on their Mk III??
>
> Do you like them that way, other benefits, etc.?
>
> I'm replacing all my Lexan so now is the time to re-configure them.
>
> thanks
I have the half doors on my Mk-3 and they are great. Of course I don't live
in a cold weather area. The half doors give you an open feel, work well for
photography and there is no wind blast.
Bill George
Mk-3 Verner1400 Powerfin
http://homepage.mac.com/wgeorge737/PhotoAlbum3.html
________________________________________________________________________________
I ALSO SENSED A COLD SHOULDER FROM TNK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher John Armstrong" <Tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
I thought SNF was a blast and It was fun to meet some of you guys. TNK did
not seem to acknowledge we were there at all, weird. There were a couple of
interesting new engines in development at the Earthstar booth. one was a 2
cylinder opposed 4 stroke called the needleeye. the other was Mark Bierle's
own design, a 8 cylinder two stroke radial engine that uses a cam to drive
it instead of a crank, so it can develop high dwell at top dead center to
completely burn the fuel at high temp and pressure. target is 60 hp at 55
pounds, with a very low fuel consumption, like half the R503! For new
planes the hummel ultracruiser sure flew well, and the new plane from Wayne
Ison, the N'ison easy was neat, but did not fly due to having sustained
damage in rough encounter with wake turbulence that ended in a very rough
landing. the micro lyco was on a very rough start of a fuselage. it is a
very cute engine. I did not see the pelican crash but it sounds like a
real dumb one. that plane should not be on that runway with a tailwind.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Phillips" <rphillip1999(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | hinges and flap horn |
I'm building a Mark III classic. Up to cutting the hinges for the
ailerons and flaps. I think they are all 14" long (just one is labeled in
the plans) but I want to make sure before I start cutting. Any help with
that? Also, the distance from the inboard rib to the first flap hinge is
not indicated on the drawings (Its probably not that critical but I'd hate
to run into an unforseen problem later).
The other question is the position of the flap horn. I intend to install
a 912 Rotax so I think the flap horn has to be positioned at a different
angle than normal. Appreciate any info on these things.
Russ Phillips
Portville ,NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gdledbetter1(at)fuse.net> |
Chris,
I'm finally getting a hangar for my firefly so I am also going to replace
the fabric gap seal with a more permanent aluminum/lexan model.
I was at sun-n-fun and spoke with the BRS folks and they also told
me that you needed a positive way for the parachute to be released
thru the gap seal.
Their recommendation was to make the gapseal in two pieces
splitting at the rocket and allowing the front half of the seal to overlap
the leading edge of the back half of the seal so that the leading seal
could be peeled forward when the chute deploys.
Hope this makes some sense.
Gene Ledbetter
Cincinnati
Firefly - 85 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Currie <bnb(at)erols.com> |
The only person that was helpful was John Hauck. He was always willing to
talk and explain what he had done with his plane. I got alot of useful info
from him. Getting the TNK people to talk was like pulling teeth and then,
they provided little info. After sale relations provide more sales.
Sometimes they seem to not get it. Bob Curri
RW603(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I ALSO SENSED A COLD SHOULDER FROM TNK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net> |
Hey Larry,
Sure was nice to meet you and put a face to all of those posts on the
list. I had a great time meeting all the guys that showed up for the
get together at Sonny's on Sunday. Will look forward to reading more
from you on the list.
I thought it was just me, made a point of introducing myself to most of the
TNK people. Don't know what I expected, but feel a real chill in the air.
Not one of them asked what I was flying of where I was from. Brrrrrrrr!
I didn't see any crowd around any other vendor like there was at the Kolb
area. Bet they would like that kind of support. Strange that not one of the
TNK could make our get together, yet Jim and Dondi could make time to
do so. You figure?!!! And I even bought a new Kolb hat for the occasion.
At least the bunch of guys that fly Kolb's that I met are special people!
First person I met on Sunday was Johann from Iceland, how neat is that?
We had a great time looking at other craft and comparing notes. I'm so
glad I made the long drive down to Sun-N-Fun!
Terry Frantz - FireFly # 95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johann G." <johann-g(at)tal.is> |
| Subject: | Sun and Fun,Fun, Fun |
Hi Kolbers.
I would like to thank everyone who I met at Sun and Fun for a great
time. It was so good to meet with all of you. Just like meeting an old
friend after a long time.
I did not know what to expect from the Kolb Company, so I did not notice
the coldness, but after reading your mail, they could have shown some
kind of gesture such as was suggested by Duane from Tallahassee, a
beverage drink as least.
I spoke to Brian from Kolb about the Kolbra, and he was very nice to
show me the plane and talk about the great performance and nice handling
of the plane. Was going to take me for a spin in it, but the wind was
too strong and air unstable. It look like that I need to buy it first so
that I may fly in it, just like I did with the Firestar.
The dinnertimes at Sunny=B4s was a great idea. You guys were something
else. I will never forget the moments we spent together around the Kolb
trailer and at the restaurant.
Too bad we did not get to see more of the people on the list. Maybe next
time?
I agree with you Terry, I am sure glad I made the long flight, and the
long drive to meet you all.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> If you put lexan over that thing, make absolutely sure you provide some kind
> of breakaway thru it for that rocket. Possibly, if you don't have any sharp
bends, you
> could use thin plexiglass ??
> Experienced Lar.
Hey Gang:
Just got home and was browsing through the mail before I hit
the shower. The above got my attention.
Do not use lexan, plexiglass, or anything else to fire your
rocket through. BRS will include with your parachute, if
you ask them, "hair cell plastic" that was designed to
shatter when necessary, i.e., the rocket and parachute blast
through it. They have diagrams to show how to score the
inside of the hair cell plastic with a utility knife where
the rocket and prcht will exit.
If one uses the soft pack, contructs a 4 rib center section
for a MK III to accomodate the pack tray, lowers the rocket
about 5 inches, seals the hair cell plastic with silicone
seal around the edges when fastening to the gap seal, the
repack cycle is extended from two to six years. This is the
way I did mine. Weather proof and no ugly rocket sticking
up in the airstream. Everything is neatly secured inside
the gap seal.
Had the best ever S&F. This was my 19th consecutive trip to
Lakeland. The highlight of the week was visiting with you
guys from the List. We had a ball. Exchanged a lot of
ideas. Enjoyed each others' company. Was a pleasure to be
able to meet Clive Hatcher from England and Johan from
Iceland. Got to save my pennies and go visit these two Kolb
enthusiast.
for a good ole North Florida mullet and shrimp dinner.
There is a paved airstrip on the island. When I called 5
miles out, the taxi lady asked me if I needed a taxi. Yes
indeed. Too far to walk to the resturants. Best seafood I
had since I had dinner with Brother Jim and Duane the Plane
at Panacea, FL, last Friday on the way to Lakeland. I
buzzed Brother Jim at Woodville, FL, to let him know I was
OK and stopped at Marianna, FL, (an old WWII airbase), for
10 gals of 100LL to insure I had plenty fuel to skirt rain
and thunderstorms in the area between there and home. Had a
good flight. Miss P'fer (pronounced PEE-Fur) performed
impeccably, as usual. I am real proud of her and her little
912S. I still have to complete my log books, but she is
close to 1,700 hours on her airframe and 341 hours on her
912S.
Time for a good hot shower in my own shower, and other
things. :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
| Subject: | Re: 912 oil tank mount failure |
04/12/2002 07:15:16 PM
I went for a flight the other day in my Mrk III and felt a distinct
vibration for several seconds after takeoff, then it went away. Landed
later with no problems, but did a thorough checkup on the ground and
discovered that the steel mount structure that holds the oil tank on my 912
was cracked or broken clean through at three different locations -
including one tear that went half way through the width of the steel band
that goes around the tank. Two other support rods were broken completely
through. Yikes!
My badly damaged oil tank mount can probably be welded up and modified to
give it more strength, but I was curious what others have used to hold
their 912 oil tank. Perhaps there is something better than what Im using?
My mount came with the used 912 engine when I bought it and I dont know who
made it. The normal ultralight vendors dont seem to carry an oil tank mount
for the 912, I guess because their isnt a universal mount location that
will work for all planes. Am I on my own for this?
At any rate, other 912 folks with front mounted oil tanks may want to
double check theirs and make a point of checking it each time before
flight. It seems that there is considerable vibration and stress on the
mount at this location.
Regards,
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry" <tswartz(at)hydrosoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 oil tank mount failure |
Erich,
I found a crack in preflight in the band of the oil tank mount on my 912 at
around 100 hrs. Welded it and I now have 250 hrs with no further problems.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912 oil tank mount failure
I went for a flight the other day in my Mrk III and felt a distinct
vibration for several seconds after takeoff, then it went away. Landed
later with no problems, but did a thorough checkup on the ground and
discovered that the steel mount structure that holds the oil tank on my 912
was cracked or broken clean through at three different locations -
including one tear that went half way through the width of the steel band
that goes around the tank. Two other support rods were broken completely
through. Yikes!
My badly damaged oil tank mount can probably be welded up and modified to
give it more strength, but I was curious what others have used to hold
their 912 oil tank. Perhaps there is something better than what Im using?
My mount came with the used 912 engine when I bought it and I dont know who
made it. The normal ultralight vendors dont seem to carry an oil tank mount
for the 912, I guess because their isnt a universal mount location that
will work for all planes. Am I on my own for this?
At any rate, other 912 folks with front mounted oil tanks may want to
double check theirs and make a point of checking it each time before
flight. It seems that there is considerable vibration and stress on the
mount at this location.
Regards,
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SnF Kolb Getogether |
>
>John Hauck departed Panacea Airport 0832 headed for LAL with 15 Kt tailwi>nd.
I will see you all there Sunday for sure.
>
> Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL
The "Possums" are back in Atlanta after scudrunning for the last 2 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 04/12/02 Sun & Fun |
Back home in upstste NY. Had a great time at the show. Glad I got to meet
some of the list members and talk John H. Sorry I didn,t make it to Sonny's.
I kept an eye out on Kolbs trl. for a notice as to what was going on. By the
time I heard, my brother was enroute to visit from Tampa, so I couldn,t make
it. I guess a jug of cold water would have been a nice gesture on Kolbs part.
They did tell me that they are planning a Kolb fly-in with plenty of camping
room and all are welcome.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Kroll" <skroll(at)dellepro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vibration (erich weaver) |
It seems that there is considerable vibration and stress on the
mount at this location.
Regards,
Erich Weaver
Erich,
You might want to check to see if your wheels are in balance for the
vibration just after liftoff. Before I balanced my left wheel, I used
to stop it's rotation with a gloved hand. Before I learned that trick,
my airplane (Mk-2) used to vibrate something awful just after liftoff
and until the wheel slowed down.
Sorry I missed you guys down at S n F. Sounds like ya'll had a good
time. Maybe next year
----- Original Message -----
From: Kolb-List Digest Server
To: Kolb-List Digest List
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 04/12/02
*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb Database & Pics |
There are some new pics up on http://www.springeraviation.net/.
Please bear with me regarding Database updates as I am try to still sort out
a few things after computer problems.
Thanks,
Kip
Firestar II
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
> My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL, it goes into
> an accelerated controllable mush at about 30-32mph and I can fly it all the
> way to the ground like that.
> John Anderson
John A/Gang:
My Ultrastar stalled at 25 mph without vortex generators.
It would also mush all the way to the ground. I saw it
happen with someone else flying it. Also watched my old
buddy mush his into the ground both times he flew it.
My Firestar would also mush, as will my big ole fat Mark
III, and all the Kolb aircraft that I have had the previlege
to fly. I have never flown with vortex generators.
However, on the three occassions that I observed the mush to
the ground, it was quite hard, spreading the landing gear
and damaging the nose of the Ultrastars each time. Not a
recommended method of landing, but you can loose a lot of
altitude quickly. I demonstrated this rapid decent mode to
a reporter at Lakeland day before yesterday. With 20 gals
of fuel on board, his 205 lbs and my 185 lbs, we were
decending at 2,000+ FPM. To recover requires relaxing the
stick, sometimes a little forward stick, and she is flying
again. I emphasize, this is done at a respectable altitude,
i.e., 1,500 feet AGL and above.
While playing around with the MK III the same day with the
same reporter, I was going to demonstrate a radical stall by
bringing the nose up to an extreme angle of attack, without
power, until it finally broke and stalled. First attempt,
without power, by pushing the nose over to gain airspeed
then coming back on the stick to get the nose high, failed.
At first I thought we had gotten into an accelerated stall.
Then we tried the same thing again with the same results.
My conclusion is that the wing was not getting into an
accelerated stall, but somehow blanking out the elevators
making them ineffective and/or I was stalling the
elevators. With power on, executing the same maneuver, the
aircraft performed normal as expected.
I don't play around with my airplane as much as I used to in
the old days with my other two Kolbs. I had forgotten how
much I learned from experimenting, at altitude, in different
situations to see what the aircraft would do. Thirty-four
years ago in Army Primary Helicoper Training, most of us did
a lot of experimenting on our own as soon as we were turned
loose solo. We learned a lot about our little helicopters
this way, although not approved by the Army. Later on I
discovered that my IP had done the same thing.
Finally, would you please explain a little more about your
Ultrastar. Your statement, "My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL",
should be further clarified so I can understand it. :-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Herren" <wmdherren(at)hotmail.com> |
I ain't home yet - I'm still out havin a ball in FL. Son was going to ferry
a 172sp from GNV (Gainesville) back to his home strip Flying 10 west of GNV.
With his instructor, I got my first ride with my son as PIC. The wx was
lousy and we sat for a while hoping for better. Steve Green's lovely MKIII
was tied down there, don't know if it was a planned layover. Gave up on the
ferry flight when son's friend called on the cellphone about a boat ride.
He picked us up at the airport and we hit the lake. He hit 90 mph on the
way out and offered to let me drive back. I think I more than quadrupled my
fastest previous boat driving when I hit 80 mph. His Merc 2.5l (about 300
HP) was over 7 grand. Rev limiter kicks in at 8.
I too felt that TNK was off the mark in the public relations dept. Hope to
meet more of youse guys next year.
Bill from Lousyana
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
I bought a used laptop just before SnF, and hauled it all over the
country so that I could keep up with email while travelling. Couldn't
get the fool thing dialled in, so carried it to Fla and back for nada.
Now, today it's finally going, and the big one has gotten balky.
Hmmmm...........home computer is on DSL, and laptop is dial up. I'm
using the laptop now, and hating it. Soooooo sllloooowwww ! ! ! Didn't
realize how spoiled I had gotten, how quickly. Does anyone know of a
DSL (or other high speed connection) that will travel with you ??
Checked with Verizon, my home supplier, and theirs is dedicated to my
home phone. I was fat & happy using dial-up before, but sure don't like
it now. Took all of 2 or 3 downloads to spoil me for DSL.
P.S...........Long as I'm off Kolb, and incurring wrath, let me also say
that I bought an optical mouse for the laptop........hate those cussed
scratch pads. Hey, folks, $30.00 for that logitech optical mouse, and
you don't have to clean a miserable roller ball ever again. Love it.
Thanks...............Hate Being a Slowpoke Lar. Do not
Archive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 04/13/02 |
Any suggestions on how to balance ?
> Thanks.
> Hans van Alphen
Hans/Gents:
Yes. Get rid of the lawn mower tires and buy aircraft
tires.
Off road/low speed tires are not trued and balanced before
leaving the plant. Aircraft tires are.
I bought McCreary Air Tracs last year to do the Alaska
flight. What a difference. Speed rated up to 125 mph. No
shake, rattle, and roll on take off. Those were 6.00X6.
A few weeks ago bought some 8.00X6's for Miss P'fer, Air
Tracs. No shake, rattle, and roll. 125 mph tires. Perform
well on pavement and sod at 8 psi, unlike the Carlysle (sp)
and Ching Shens. In fact, perform just as well at the Air
Trac 6.00X6's.
Air Trac 6.00X6 $35.00 ea
8.00X6 $75.00 ea
You get what you pay for. Can not make a high speed tire
out of a low speed tire. Beefier wheels, axles, and tapered
roller bearings also perform better than the UL version of
MATCO products.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires and tubes |
John --
Ok, tell me more!
What's the difference between the Air Trac and the Air Hawk? Do either
use/require a tube? (I've had too many problems with tubeless, and so
always put tubes in my tires.)
Is there an on-line aircraft dealer that you can suggest I buy these
McCreary tires from?
Thanks!
-- Robert
At 11:26 AM 4/14/2002, you wrote:
>Hans/Gents:
>
>Yes. Get rid of the lawn mower tires and buy aircraft
>tires.
>
>Off road/low speed tires are not trued and balanced before
>leaving the plant. Aircraft tires are.
>
>I bought McCreary Air Tracs last year to do the Alaska
>flight. What a difference. Speed rated up to 125 mph. No
>shake, rattle, and roll on take off. Those were 6.00X6.
>
>A few weeks ago bought some 8.00X6's for Miss P'fer, Air
>Tracs. No shake, rattle, and roll. 125 mph tires. Perform
>well on pavement and sod at 8 psi, unlike the Carlysle (sp)
>and Ching Shens. In fact, perform just as well at the Air
>Trac 6.00X6's.
>
>Air Trac 6.00X6 $35.00 ea
> 8.00X6 $75.00 ea
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Kolbers, when the guys with the real airplanes throw out their old
baldies---now's yer chance! grab em out of the trash before it's hauled
away. They go faster without tread. Some of the ones painted yellow
around the tie-downs are pretty good too. I filled mine with helium
and my plane is now tethered 10' off the ground. --BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires and tubes |
> What's the difference between the Air Trac and the Air Hawk?
Do either
> use/require a tube?
> Is there an on-line aircraft dealer that you can suggest I buy these
> McCreary tires from?
> -- Robert
Robert/Gang:
Answers to above questions follow:
Price.
Use a tube.
Yes: http://www.desser.com/
I buy my aircraft tires from Desser. I do not buy my tubes
from them. Tubes are easy to obtain locally, garden shops,
tire companies, etc. I have gone two sizes under, at times,
when I could not get the right size. Never go oversize of
tubes.
Desser ships fast and cheap.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires and tubes |
I'll second the Dresser recommendation. Good people, service, and prices.
jerryb
>
>
> > What's the difference between the Air Trac and the Air Hawk?
>
> Do either
> > use/require a tube?
>
>
> > Is there an on-line aircraft dealer that you can suggest I buy these
> > McCreary tires from?
>
> > -- Robert
>
>Robert/Gang:
>
>Answers to above questions follow:
>
>Price.
>
>Use a tube.
>
>Yes: http://www.desser.com/
>
>I buy my aircraft tires from Desser. I do not buy my tubes
>from them. Tubes are easy to obtain locally, garden shops,
>tire companies, etc. I have gone two sizes under, at times,
>when I could not get the right size. Never go oversize of
>tubes.
>
>Desser ships fast and cheap.
>
>john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bourne [mailto:biglar(at)gogittum.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: Computer
Hi Lar
You can forget traveling with DSL it's the connection to the phone switch
that makes dsl fast and it has to be connected ahead time. When traveling
it's dial up or nothing. Unless you have a dish.
Ken
DSL (or other high speed connection) that will travel with you ??
Checked with Verizon, my home supplier, and theirs is dedicated to my
home phone. I was fat & happy using dial-up before, but sure don't like
it now. Took all of 2 or 3 downloads to spoil me for DSL.
P.S...........Long as I'm off Kolb, and incurring wrath, let me also say
that I bought an optical mouse for the laptop........hate those cussed
scratch pads. Hey, folks, $30.00 for that logitech optical mouse, and
you don't have to clean a miserable roller ball ever again. Love it.
Thanks...............Hate Being a Slowpoke Lar. Do not
Archive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Gerken" <gerken(at)us.ibm.com> |
04/15/2002 07:16:33 AM
>My 6 inch Asusa wheels and Carlisle tires our out of round and out of
>balance and shake pretty bad on takeoff. Any suggestions on how to balance
?
>Thanks.
>Hans van Alphen
OK, now that you've had plenty of excellent advise on buying new tires,
here's my two cents' worth on how to deal with the tires you have until the
new ones arrive. Balance them. You can buy an inexpensive bubble balancer
or borrow one, or use one of the hanging prop balancers if you have that.
When my cheap Cheng Chins were new, they were terrible, and even had a
noticable overlap bump on them. I brought them closer to in-balance by
removing rubber. Instead of adding lead to my airplane, I removed rubber
to balance. I used a four-inch angle grinder and cut parallel grooves in
the tires, 1/4" wide, 3/16" deep and put my grooves between the stock
grooves. It took quite a few, like every rib on the tire for a
circumference of about 8 inches. Now they do not produce the vibration on
takeoff. They are now about five years old and are beginning to crack on
the sidewalls so soon its aircraft tires for me, but the above method got
me by for a while.
Good luck.
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | philip condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: Air-Track and Air-Hawk |
One tire has a rounded shoulder while the other has a more square
shoulders(where the tread meets the runway) I've noticed the square
shoulder tires track straighter down the runway with less rudder play.
Both tires require a innertube. Get the tire with the least ply rating
if you are ordering new ones... your Kolb wont wear out one of these
tires. There is a big difference in the weight of the ply ratings. Two
ply retreads are of even greater value. I run 8 pounds of air on the
6.00x6's I use. Any more air pressure just adds more weight....(seeing
if anyone really reads this drivle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Wockner <gwockner(at)nrel.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Kolb Firefly Kits For Sale -- Estate Sale |
Hello,
I am selling Kolb Firefly Kits from my father's estate. The wing ribs
are
pre-assembled. The tail unit is assembled and it is attached to the
Tube.
I believe that the motor mounting structure is also assembled.
There is no motor. This sale includes kits #1 and kits #2. All manuals
and
assembly instructions are included.
Asking Price = $4,000.
Buyer must come get the kits. No delivery is possible.
Kolb sells these kits new for $7,100.
The kit is in my mother's garage in Illinois (about 80 miles south of
Chicago). Please respond to me (Gary Wockner) at (970) 407-1163
or my mother (Peggy Wockner) at (815)432-3507 or email me anytime.
Cordially,
Gary Wockner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: Air-Track and Air-Hawk |
Drivel read and understood.
If using aircraft tires, pay attention to the placement of the valve
stem in relation to the (sometimes) red dot on the sidewall--it's fer balancing.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Alexander <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: Air-Track and Air-Hawk |
philip condon wrote:
>
>
> One tire has a rounded shoulder while the other has a more square
> shoulders(where the tread meets the runway) I've noticed the square
> shoulder tires track straighter down the runway with less rudder play.
> Both tires require a innertube. Get the tire with the least ply rating
> if you are ordering new ones... your Kolb wont wear out one of these
> tires. There is a big difference in the weight of the ply ratings. Two
> ply retreads are of even greater value. I run 8 pounds of air on the
> 6.00x6's I use. Any more air pressure just adds more weight....(seeing
> if anyone really reads this drivle)
>
Drivle he says??????
How about if you put 16 pounds of helium? Would that make
it lighter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
While practice take-offs with a instructor in his drifter, we had just
crossed fifty foot or so agl when the aircraft started thumping badly, My
instructor called for the stick thinking that the engine had gone. I told
him it was the wheel and used the stick brake to stop the wheel turning. I
had noticed the wheels not in balance on my first take off and had just hit
the brakes as I lifted off. This time we really popped off the runway and I
was busy flying the ship and had forgotten to brake the wheels. Later on the
ground he told me that he had been doing off field lands and had taxied
through a soft area. Sure enough the inner wheel had about 1/2" or so of
mud. I had seen the mud and didn't even think of it. Lesson learned, check
everything out, and don't assume nothing!
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gerken [mailto:gerken(at)us.ibm.com]
Subject: Kolb-List: tire balance
>My 6 inch Asusa wheels and Carlisle tires our out of round and out of
>balance and shake pretty bad on takeoff. Any suggestions on how to balance
?
>Thanks.
>Hans van Alphen
OK, now that you've had plenty of excellent advise on buying new tires,
here's my two cents' worth on how to deal with the tires you have until the
new ones arrive. Balance them. You can buy an inexpensive bubble balancer
or borrow one, or use one of the hanging prop balancers if you have that.
When my cheap Cheng Chins were new, they were terrible, and even had a
noticable overlap bump on them. I brought them closer to in-balance by
removing rubber. Instead of adding lead to my airplane, I removed rubber
to balance. I used a four-inch angle grinder and cut parallel grooves in
the tires, 1/4" wide, 3/16" deep and put my grooves between the stock
grooves. It took quite a few, like every rib on the tire for a
circumference of about 8 inches. Now they do not produce the vibration on
takeoff. They are now about five years old and are beginning to crack on
the sidewalls so soon its aircraft tires for me, but the above method got
me by for a while.
Good luck.
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
John,
Prior to installing Vortex generators my Ultrastar had a definite stall
break. At about 35 mph, my asi - not calibrated, my nose would fall
through, ease off the stick and it would recover. When doing full stall
landings if you slow down too much with too much altitude, the nose drops
through and bent landing gear.
With the VG's it just goes into the accelerated mush mode, regardless of how
much back pressure I put on the stick. Yes you are correct you are loosing
altitude at a very fast rate and would flatten landing gear if you tried to
ride it down. However doing full stall landings are quite easy, if I slow
down a too much a little too high, I just mush in from the 5- 10 ft - no
problem, where as without the VG's my nose came through and BOUNCE.......
I am surprised by your comment of your Ultrastar and Firestar both going
into mush mode without a stall break, most everyone I have talked to report
the same stall characteristics as mine, a definite stall break. It would be
interesting to get some feedback from other folks experience.
John Anderson
*******************
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
>
> > My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL, it goes into
> > an accelerated controllable mush at about 30-32mph and I can fly it all
the
> > way to the ground like that.
> > John Anderson
>
> John A/Gang:
>
> My Ultrastar stalled at 25 mph without vortex generators.
> It would also mush all the way to the ground. I saw it
> happen with someone else flying it. Also watched my old
> buddy mush his into the ground both times he flew it.
>
> My Firestar would also mush, as will my big ole fat Mark
> III, and all the Kolb aircraft that I have had the previlege
> to fly. I have never flown with vortex generators.
>
> However, on the three occassions that I observed the mush to
> the ground, it was quite hard, spreading the landing gear
> and damaging the nose of the Ultrastars each time. Not a
> recommended method of landing, but you can loose a lot of
> altitude quickly. I demonstrated this rapid decent mode to
> a reporter at Lakeland day before yesterday. With 20 gals
> of fuel on board, his 205 lbs and my 185 lbs, we were
> decending at 2,000+ FPM. To recover requires relaxing the
> stick, sometimes a little forward stick, and she is flying
> again. I emphasize, this is done at a respectable altitude,
> i.e., 1,500 feet AGL and above.
>
> While playing around with the MK III the same day with the
> same reporter, I was going to demonstrate a radical stall by
> bringing the nose up to an extreme angle of attack, without
> power, until it finally broke and stalled. First attempt,
> without power, by pushing the nose over to gain airspeed
> then coming back on the stick to get the nose high, failed.
> At first I thought we had gotten into an accelerated stall.
> Then we tried the same thing again with the same results.
> My conclusion is that the wing was not getting into an
> accelerated stall, but somehow blanking out the elevators
> making them ineffective and/or I was stalling the
> elevators. With power on, executing the same maneuver, the
> aircraft performed normal as expected.
>
> I don't play around with my airplane as much as I used to in
> the old days with my other two Kolbs. I had forgotten how
> much I learned from experimenting, at altitude, in different
> situations to see what the aircraft would do. Thirty-four
> years ago in Army Primary Helicoper Training, most of us did
> a lot of experimenting on our own as soon as we were turned
> loose solo. We learned a lot about our little helicopters
> this way, although not approved by the Army. Later on I
> discovered that my IP had done the same thing.
>
> Finally, would you please explain a little more about your
> Ultrastar. Your statement, "My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL",
> should be further clarified so I can understand it. :-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Aileron Gap Seal Tape |
Kolb Friends -
About a year ago, Ron Carroll posted a very detailed procedure for applying
the gap seal tape (using 3M/Scotch #845 book binding tape) for closing the
gap between the wing and ailerons. His post described using a one-inch wood
dowel, cut to the proper length, for pressing the tape into the gap with
excellent results. Well, I'm at that point now, and I have one question.
(I tried to contact Ron himself, but he's not listed in Kip Laurie's list.)
In doing the method Ron describes, what position should the ailerons be
relative to the wing when applying the tape? Neutral, or in the full "up"
position?
Thanks for any advice ...
Dennis Kirby
Mk-3, Verner-1400, Powerfin, not flown yet (but gettin' VERY close) in
Cedar Crest, New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wally Hofmann
Wickenburg, Arizona
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tire balance |
Now, THAT is a good idea. Thanks, Jim. I've got the Chinese Junk, (Chen
something) and already have real tires for when they wear out, or fall
apart. For balancing, I'm going to try the little doohickey I use for
balancing rotary lawn mower blades. Might have to make an adapter.....
Adaptable Lar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: tire balance
>
> >My 6 inch Asusa wheels and Carlisle tires our out of round and out of
> >balance and shake pretty bad on takeoff. Any suggestions on how to
balance
> ?
> >Thanks.
> >Hans van Alphen
>
> OK, now that you've had plenty of excellent advise on buying new tires,
> here's my two cents' worth on how to deal with the tires you have until
the
> new ones arrive. Balance them. You can buy an inexpensive bubble
balancer
> or borrow one, or use one of the hanging prop balancers if you have that.
> When my cheap Cheng Chins were new, they were terrible, and even had a
> noticable overlap bump on them. I brought them closer to in-balance by
> removing rubber. Instead of adding lead to my airplane, I removed rubber
> to balance. I used a four-inch angle grinder and cut parallel grooves in
> the tires, 1/4" wide, 3/16" deep and put my grooves between the stock
> grooves. It took quite a few, like every rib on the tire for a
> circumference of about 8 inches. Now they do not produce the vibration on
> takeoff. They are now about five years old and are beginning to crack on
> the sidewalls so soon its aircraft tires for me, but the above method got
> me by for a while.
> Good luck.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake Keating" <keater28(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
My Kolb Ultrastar does full stalls too. Obviosly no VG's on mine either. As a Private
Pilot I know what I am looking for. I understand the mush mode because
in general Kolbs do not stall like regular (I'm talking pipers, cessnas) Planes,
for its more clear and precise.The US gets in mush mode right before a stall
"break".
This is my first time chiming in. Must say I love the list. Never heard what other
US owners had to say because before my introduction to the list I could have
sworn I had the only one. I knew I didn't have the only one but I didn't even
knew the name kolb existed untill I owned one.
On a different topic I have the 2 fuel tanks for a total of 3.5 gallons under my
knees. I would like to carry more fuel without any major renovation to the plane.
I saw a picture of a kolb in the photoshare of a US with a 5g tank above
the engine. Not a likely solution for me because of a structural cross brace.
Do anyone of you have any suggestions that would be fairly quick and easy?
On the topic of trailors I have a kolb made single axle trailor that I recently
re did. Looks good and is very functional for me. I keep the plane at home and
drive it approx. 10 miles to a field during good weather so its not a covered
trialor nor should it be for me. I tow it with a Jeep Wrangler so I don't really
have plans to take it far. Just thought I would let you know.
On crow hopping. Never did it but around me near N13, Bloomsburg PA, many folks
have learned that way. I learned by being a pilot to begin with and then finding
an ultralight instructor and flew a total of 3 hours, soloing after 2 hours
and then I felt I was good to go and I was. If I started from scratch not sure
how long it would have taken. My advice on crow hoping is, do it if you must,
its worked and it hasn't. Get an instructor to teach you if at all possible.
Thanks for listening and I hope I hear a solution or two.
From: "John Anderson" <JANDERSON3(at)NC.RR.COM>
Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
To:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:30:55 -0400
-- Kolb-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
John,
Prior to installing Vortex generators my Ultrastar had a definite stall
break. At about 35 mph, my asi - not calibrated, my nose would fall
through, ease off the stick and it would recover. When doing full stall
landings if you slow down too much with too much altitude, the nose drops
through and bent landing gear.
With the VG's it just goes into the accelerated mush mode, regardless of how
much back pressure I put on the stick. Yes you are correct you are loosing
altitude at a very fast rate and would flatten landing gear if you tried to
ride it down. However doing full stall landings are quite easy, if I slow
down a too much a little too high, I just mush in from the 5- 10 ft - no
problem, where as without the VG's my nose came through and BOUNCE.......
I am surprised by your comment of your Ultrastar and Firestar both going
into mush mode without a stall break, most everyone I have talked to report
the same stall characteristics as mine, a definite stall break. It would be
interesting to get some feedback from other folks experience.
John Anderson
*******************
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <HAWK36(at)MINDSPRING.COM>
To:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
-- Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL, it goes into
an accelerated controllable mush at about 30-32mph and I can fly it all
the
way to the ground like that.
John Anderson
John A/Gang:
My Ultrastar stalled at 25 mph without vortex generators.
It would also mush all the way to the ground. I saw it
happen with someone else flying it. Also watched my old
buddy mush his into the ground both times he flew it.
My Firestar would also mush, as will my big ole fat Mark
III, and all the Kolb aircraft that I have had the previlege
to fly. I have never flown with vortex generators.
However, on the three occassions that I observed the mush to
the ground, it was quite hard, spreading the landing gear
and damaging the nose of the Ultrastars each time. Not a
recommended method of landing, but you can loose a lot of
altitude quickly. I demonstrated this rapid decent mode to
a reporter at Lakeland day before yesterday. With 20 gals
of fuel on board, his 205 lbs and my 185 lbs, we were
decending at 2,000+ FPM. To recover requires relaxing the
stick, sometimes a little forward stick, and she is flying
again. I emphasize, this is done at a respectable altitude,
i.e., 1,500 feet AGL and above.
While playing around with the MK III the same day with the
same reporter, I was going to demonstrate a radical stall by
bringing the nose up to an extreme angle of attack, without
power, until it finally broke and stalled. First attempt,
without power, by pushing the nose over to gain airspeed
then coming back on the stick to get the nose high, failed.
At first I thought we had gotten into an accelerated stall.
Then we tried the same thing again with the same results.
My conclusion is that the wing was not getting into an
accelerated stall, but somehow blanking out the elevators
making them ineffective and/or I was stalling the
elevators. With power on, executing the same maneuver, the
aircraft performed normal as expected.
I don't play around with my airplane as much as I used to in
the old days with my other two Kolbs. I had forgotten how
much I learned from experimenting, at altitude, in different
situations to see what the aircraft would do. Thirty-four
years ago in Army Primary Helicoper Training, most of us did
a lot of experimenting on our own as soon as we were turned
loose solo. We learned a lot about our little helicopters
this way, although not approved by the Army. Later on I
discovered that my IP had done the same thing.
Finally, would you please explain a little more about your
Ultrastar. Your statement, "My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL",
should be further clarified so I can understand it. :-)
Take care,
john h
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Tape |
>
>
>In doing the method Ron describes, what position should the ailerons be
>relative to the wing when applying the tape? Neutral, or in the full "up"
>position?
Put them on the bottom surfaces and with the ailerons in the full up
position. The plans method for gap seals are free and easy to install.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
> I am surprised by your comment of your Ultrastar and Firestar both going
> into mush mode without a stall break, most everyone I have talked to report
> the same stall characteristics as mine, a definite stall break. It would be
> interesting to get some feedback from other folks experience.
>
> John Anderson
Hi John A/Gang:
Perhaps you missed most of the following paragraph:
> > My Firestar would also mush, as will my big ole fat Mark
> > III, and all the Kolb aircraft that I have had the previlege
> > to fly. I have never flown with vortex generators.
In addition to my US and FS, my "big fat" MK III and all the
Kolb aircraft that I have had the privilege to fly.
I think it is a characteristic of Homer's wing and airfoil.
I demonstrated this to a reporter last Thursday at
Lakeland. We bumped 2,000 fpm rate of descent. Hit the
ground at that rate and it will hurt. I have no idea what
the rate of descent was on the FS and US.
I am surprised at your comment that Kolb's had a sharp stall
break. Only way I can get a sharp stall break is to pull
the nose up to an exagerated high angle until airspeed
zeroes out. Helps to push the stick forward when it breaks
to give people on the ground that you are really stalling.
:-)
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Seal Tape |
Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM wrote:
>
> (I tried to contact Ron himself, but he's not listed in Kip Laurie's list.)
Dennis/Gang:
Go to the Kolb List Archives and do a search for Ron's email
address.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AnylAmber(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | see what college girls will do for money |
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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--- StripMime Errors ---
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resend the email using plaintext formatting
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Problem shipping things home with UPS |
Did any of you experience any problem trying to ship anything at UPS
locations during Sun & Fun. I came to ship some stuff home and when I took
it to UPS in North St. Petersburg, they refused to ship it because my
return address was beyond a 100 mile range from the UPS shipping center. I
thought at first it might of been something attributed to new security
procedures but they didn't care who I was or if I was connected in any way
with the address, only that it was an address within 100 miles of their
center. If it wasn't that my sister lives in the area, I wouldn't have
been able to ship it. Very discouraging for attending future fly-ins.
jerryb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
> I am surprised at your comment that Kolb's had a sharp stall
> break. Only way I can get a sharp stall break is to pull
> the nose up to an exagerated high angle until airspeed
> zeroes out. Helps to push the stick forward when it breaks
> to give people on the ground that you are really stalling.
> :-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
Just prior to the break I guess it does get into mush mode, but I never
really tried to keep it there, I always had the mind set that I was
practicing stalls - so that is what I did. It is not what I would call a
sharp stall break, but at about 35 mph the nose does drop. They are really
a non-eventful thing, just ease up on the stick preasure and your flying
again. But close to the ground if the nose falls through your in for
trouble.
John Anderson
*******************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | b young <byoung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | 1050 vls brs in gap seal |
criss
look at this page... this is what i did with the 1050 vls...
when i talked to the folks at brs they said that the back
aprox 2/3 had to be clear.
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/gapseal.html
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: see what college girls will do for money |
Hey, Matt what's this....
----- Original Message -----
From: <AnylAmber(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: see what college girls will do for money
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> text/html
> --- StripMime Errors ---
> A message with no text/plain section was received.
> The entire body of the message was removed. Please
> resend the email using plaintext formatting
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02 |
Hi Ted
Just took the delta bird up sat and Sunday with your 447 on it. It was very
windy 15 + mph winds, a real hand full to fly. engine runs great and I am
very pleased with it. the delta birds weight is 270 lbs with 2.5 gal of
fuel. all most a true ultra light even with a 447. but light weight dose
cost, as when you look out at the lower wing you can see the fabric wrinkle
as the wing tip starts to rise when you get airborne the spars are just
barley strong enough to support the plane. I can't see what the top wing is
doing but the fabric on the bottom seems very tight. I am trying to find
some other things to remove to get it down to 254 lbs. just don't know how
safe it will be. I will have to fly high and invest in brs, just do not know
if the plane can support the extra weight,
thanks for a darn good engine for a not so strong airplane.
Randy flying the soobydoo more then the delta bird
----- Original Message -----
From: <TCowan1917(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 04/10/02
>
> you go Dean. Just take it easy, slow and short steps. if you are under
> power you will have control. I ALWAYS take their plane and play with it
> first before each session to allow myself to concentrate on what HE will
be
> feeling. Going slow allows the student to become accustomed to the
guages,
> feel, VIBRATION, etc. of the plane at different attitudes. I relay that
> information and tell them to do exactly what I did and what to watch for
and
> expect. also, I stay at least one step beyond that to explane to them
what
> to watch for at that point and what to do. After a few hours of taxiiing
> around, they generally have a feel for the plane. If you learn to take
off,
> fly straight and level at about twenty feel high, land under power, you
are
> your own master. When you own the last twenty feet, you are ready. When
you
> can pick it up and set her down time and time again, even as the wind
picks
> up, you are ready to solo when your MIND is ready. nobody can help you
once
> you leave the ground. I for one would much rather have myself or someone
> else land hard from ten or twenty feet than from five hundred at sixty
miles
> an hour. Good thing a lot of us can do this cause this might be all the
> training the little buggers are going to get later. Very right about the
> kolb pitching when power is added or reduced so do it gently. I fly my
> little kolb, challenger duce, a mini max and possible an eagle duce all in
> one day right after one another and that my friend, really gets you
focused.
> each has their own kinks and you have to think on your feet. makes my day
> when I do that. just running my mouth, sorry.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
Hi Jake
I have a home made 5 gal. aluminum tank right where the two little tanks
used to be the only problem is I do not have a fuel gage, have to watch my
time in the air. If I can find a picture I will send it to you.
Randy flying the soobydoo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Keating" <keater28(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
>
>
My Kolb Ultrastar does full stalls too. Obviosly no VG's on mine
either. As a Private Pilot I know what I am looking for. I understand the
mush mode because in general Kolbs do not stall like regular (I'm talking
pipers, cessnas) Planes, for its more clear and precise.The US gets in
mush mode right before a stall "break".
>
This is my first time chiming in. Must say I love the list. Never heard
what other US owners had to say because before my introduction to the list I
could have sworn I had the only one. I knew I didn't have the only one but I
didn't even knew the name kolb existed untill I owned one.
>
On a different topic I have the 2 fuel tanks for a total of 3.5 gallons
under my knees. I would like to carry more fuel without any major renovation
to the plane. I saw a picture of a kolb in the photoshare of a US with a 5g
tank above the engine. Not a likely solution for me because of a structural
cross brace. Do anyone of you have any suggestions that would be fairly
quick and easy?
>
On the topic of trailors I have a kolb made single axle trailor that I
recently re did. Looks good and is very functional for me. I keep the plane
at home and drive it approx. 10 miles to a field during good weather so its
not a covered trialor nor should it be for me. I tow it with a Jeep Wrangler
so I don't really have plans to take it far. Just thought I would let you
know.
>
On crow hopping. Never did it but around me near N13, Bloomsburg PA,
many folks have learned that way. I learned by being a pilot to begin with
and then finding an ultralight instructor and flew a total of 3 hours,
soloing after 2 hours and then I felt I was good to go and I was. If I
started from scratch not sure how long it would have taken. My advice on
crow hoping is, do it if you must, its worked and it hasn't. Get an
instructor to teach you if at all possible. Thanks for listening and I hope
I hear a solution or two.
>
>
> From: "John Anderson" <JANDERSON3(at)NC.RR.COM>
> Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:30:55 -0400
>
> -- Kolb-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
>
> John,
>
> Prior to installing Vortex generators my Ultrastar had a
definite stall
> break. At about 35 mph, my asi - not calibrated, my nose
would fall
> through, ease off the stick and it would recover. When
doing full stall
> landings if you slow down too much with too much altitude,
the nose drops
> through and bent landing gear.
>
> With the VG's it just goes into the accelerated mush mode,
regardless of how
> much back pressure I put on the stick. Yes you are correct
you are loosing
> altitude at a very fast rate and would flatten landing gear
if you tried to
> ride it down. However doing full stall landings are quite
easy, if I slow
> down a too much a little too high, I just mush in from the
5- 10 ft - no
> problem, where as without the VG's my nose came through and
BOUNCE.......
>
> I am surprised by your comment of your Ultrastar and
Firestar both going
> into mush mode without a stall break, most everyone I have
talked to report
> the same stall characteristics as mine, a definite stall
break. It would be
> interesting to get some feedback from other folks
experience.
>
> John Anderson
> *******************
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hauck" <HAWK36(at)MINDSPRING.COM>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
>
> -- Kolb-List message posted by: John Hauck
>
>
> My Ultrastar WILL NOT STALL, it goes into
> an accelerated controllable mush at about
30-32mph and I can fly it all
> the
> way to the ground like that.
> John Anderson
>
> John A/Gang:
>
> My Ultrastar stalled at 25 mph without vortex
generators.
> It would also mush all the way to the ground. I saw
it
> happen with someone else flying it. Also watched my
old
> buddy mush his into the ground both times he flew it.
>
> My Firestar would also mush, as will my big ole fat
Mark
> III, and all the Kolb aircraft that I have had the
previlege
> to fly. I have never flown with vortex generators.
>
> However, on the three occassions that I observed the
mush to
> the ground, it was quite hard, spreading the landing
gear
> and damaging the nose of the Ultrastars each time.
Not a
> recommended method of landing, but you can loose a
lot of
> altitude quickly. I demonstrated this rapid decent
mode to
> a reporter at Lakeland day before yesterday. With 20
gals
> of fuel on board, his 205 lbs and my 185 lbs, we were
> decending at 2,000+ FPM. To recover requires relaxing
the
> stick, sometimes a little forward stick, and she is
flying
> again. I emphasize, this is done at a respectable
altitude,
> i.e., 1,500 feet AGL and above.
>
> While playing around with the MK III the same day
with the
> same reporter, I was going to demonstrate a radical
stall by
> bringing the nose up to an extreme angle of attack,
without
> power, until it finally broke and stalled. First
attempt,
> without power, by pushing the nose over to gain
airspeed
> then coming back on the stick to get the nose high,
failed.
> At first I thought we had gotten into an accelerated
stall.
> Then we tried the same thing again with the same
results.
> My conclusion is that the wing was not getting into
an
> accelerated stall, but somehow blanking out the
elevators
> making them ineffective and/or I was stalling the
> elevators. With power on, executing the same
maneuver, the
> aircraft performed normal as expected.
>
> I don't play around with my airplane as much as I
used to in
> the old days with my other two Kolbs. I had forgotten
how
> much I learned from experimenting, at altitude, in
different
> situations to see what the aircraft would do.
Thirty-four
> years ago in Army Primary Helicoper Training, most of
us did
> a lot of experimenting on our own as soon as we were
turned
> loose solo. We learned a lot about our little
helicopters
> this way, although not approved by the Army. Later on
I
> discovered that my IP had done the same thing.
>
> Finally, would you please explain a little more about
your
> Ultrastar. Your statement, "My Ultrastar WILL NOT
STALL",
> should be further clarified so I can understand it.
:-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share
and print your photos: Click
Here
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Possum <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SnF Kolb Getogether |
John Hauck set these up so I could put them up on the list.
Here's your urls for the pics
http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Flying%20Friends/Boat1.jpg
http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Flying%20Friends/Boat2.jpg
http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Flying%20Friends/ScudRun.jpg
>We talked to John Hauck on Monday. He said he was meeting you and Beauford
>at 6:30, but we were parked 3 miles away at South Lakeland and
>had to catch the shuttle back at 5:00. Went up the other coast to Jeykl
>Island on Tuesday.
>Sorry I missed you and Mr. Tuton.
>Will send you some neat pictures later of a BIG 80' long
>tug boat we found sunk on the sand bars about half buried
>with our planes parked beside it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
Test posting. New Guy trying to figure out how to work the list.
The Rookie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
Gentlemen,
I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5 rib
wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and trailered
it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar I
loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of fuel and
a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They both
said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed weight
and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
I also stopped by Kolb's factory on the way home and the people there are
really nice. I got a grand tour, Ray Brown looked over my plane and he
answered all the questions I knew to ask. I recommend a visit if you're
ever near New London, Kentucky.
I have 350 hrs GA experience, 200 hrs in tail draggers- 30 years ago. I
did a few landings with a friend in his Maxair Drifter (from the back seat)
and then did about 5 "crow hops" before I pulled back on the stick and made
first flight. The subsequent landings were OK, nothing to brag about.
Saturday morning, I made a bad landing and bounced. Didn't think it was
that hard, but I bent the right gear leg. I removed the leg and discovered
it was only a 1.125 inch diameter FireStar I leg with a sleeve vs. a 1.250
inch dia FireStar II leg. Gotta' buy new parts. Didn't expect to break
anything major after only 3 hrs of flying.
I've got tons of questions and will probably ask you guys for your
opinions a lot, so please be patient.
I'm in the Dallas/ Fort Worth area of Texas, fly out of Propwash (16SX)
and am very fortunate to have some new friends here who are knowledgeable and
willing to help me with all my dumb questions. But it will also be good to
hear opinions from elsewhere.
I added a picture of my new toy. It's at my house before I took it to
the airport. I did a thorough inspection before I attempted to fly it.
The Rookie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- Ken Korenek writes:
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
Gentlemen,
I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5 rib
wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and trailered
it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar I
loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of fuel and
a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They both
said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed weight
and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
The Rookie
Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it may be an Original
Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is it? Does it have
two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Easier yet, does
it have full-span ailerons?
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
>
> From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5 rib
> wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and trailered
> it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
> Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar I
> loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of fuel and
> a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They both
> said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed weight
> and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> The Rookie
>
>
>
> Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it may be an Original
Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is it? Does it
have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Easier yet, does
it have full-span ailerons?
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
> 15 years flying it
>
Mr. Burlingame,
Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief. When
I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not buy it
with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told it had
7 ribs. The pictures I saw
were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first thing
I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb and Light
Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no plane if
my concerns could not be
answered to my satisfaction.
I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date of the
sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993 and has
a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer ailerons, but no
horizontal push-pull tubes or
the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural integrity
with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb, and showed
him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing spar and the
3/8 bolt holding on the strut
attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins before I
bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10 gallons of fuel
and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased engine size and my
weight is acceptable- just
keep it under 800 pounds gross.
This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them. Send them
to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you want- I've
got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- Ken Korenek writes:
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:26:58 -0500
Mr. Burlingame,
Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief. When
I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not buy it
with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told it had
7 ribs. The pictures I saw
were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first thing
I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb and Light
Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no plane if
my concerns could not be
answered to my satisfaction.
I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date of the
sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993 and has
a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer ailerons, but no
horizontal push-pull tubes or
the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural integrity
with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb, and showed
him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing spar and the
3/8 bolt holding on the strut
attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins before I
bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10 gallons of fuel
and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased engine size and my
weight is acceptable- just
keep it under 800 pounds gross.
This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them. Send them
to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you want- I've
got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Ken,
One more question, does it have the rocker arm on the bottom of the fuselage tube
to operate the vertical push pull airleron tubes. If it does, this a later
model Firestar and the builder decided to leave out two wing ribs for reasons
I know not.
There are concerns about using a 503 with the 5-rib wing. My Original Firestar
has 5-ribs and was told only to use a 447 and no higher.
The gross weight on the new Firestars are more, BUT with a 5-rib wing, it would
have to be less than 800 gross.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
>
> From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:26:58 -0500
>
> Mr. Burlingame,
>
> Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief. When
I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not buy
it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told it had
7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first thing
I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb and
Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no plane if
my concerns could not be
> answered to my satisfaction.
>
> I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date of
the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993 and has
a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer ailerons, but
no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural integrity
with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb, and showed
him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing spar and the
3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins before
I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10 gallons of fuel
and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased engine size and
my weight is acceptable- just
> keep it under 800 pounds gross.
>
> This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
>
> You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them. Send
them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you want- I've
got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
>
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Ken,
>
> One more question, does it have the rocker arm on the bottom of the fuselage
tube to operate the vertical push pull airleron tubes. If it does, this a later
model Firestar and the builder decided to leave out two wing ribs for reasons
I know not.
>
> There are concerns about using a 503 with the 5-rib wing. My Original Firestar
has 5-ribs and was told only to use a 447 and no higher.
>
> The gross weight on the new Firestars are more, BUT with a 5-rib wing, it would
have to be less than 800 gross.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
> 15 years flying it
>
Mr. Burlingame,
Yes, sir. It does have the rocker arm operating the verticle aileron push-pull
tubes. It originally had a 447 on it, so I think a FireStar I usually
has 5 ribs, a 447 and 1.125 inch dia gear legs.
How about some pictures?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
John A,
With no to mild throttle, my old UltraStar had a very definite break.
With moderate throttle it had a mushy break. With full throttle & gradual
pull back on stick, it would only mush. In most cases, recovery seemed
almost instantaneous, the exception being when I'd get the speed up to about
70, pull the nose up to the sky & hold it at about a 70 degrees. When she
quit flying, the wings would teeter a little, then the floor would fall out
from under me, my stomach would go up my throat & recovery would happen
untill I was past 45 degrees below the horizon. The best I could dertermine
is that about 200ft would go by after the break. Now if you fly it very low
& slow after twilight, the laws of physics change, the earth will suddenly
jump up & bend the crap out of both legs. When I converted it to flaperons,
with just a touch of power & 45 degrees of deflection, it would come almost
straight down (ie, very little forward motion) with complete control
authority-- even enough to deal with mild gusts, and if I remember correctly
the rate of descent was about 1200-1500fpm.
You have a great ship with temendous potential for both fun and
precision flying. It has no bad habits. I had one ground loop & that was
when I was learning to fly. I found it to be extremely spin resistant-- I
tried to a few times & couldn't (didn't have the nerve to get aggressive
enough) but they can be made to spin. They obviously are not designed for
aerobatics, but because of their strength & performance, you may be sorely
tempted to do the unwise.
For negatives: 1) The gear is rigid & fragile. 2) The prop is small &
cuts grass. 3) The control system has tons of slop. 4) No wind screen.
And 5) If its a very early model, it will lack a drag strut brace & collars
on the inbaord ends of the spars. All of these are overcome with reasonably
simple modifications and will produce a plane that is arguably par to none.
Enjoy!!!
...Richard Swiderski
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
>
>
> >
> > I am surprised at your comment that Kolb's had a sharp stall
> > break. Only way I can get a sharp stall break is to pull
> > the nose up to an exagerated high angle until airspeed
> > zeroes out. Helps to push the stick forward when it breaks
> > to give people on the ground that you are really stalling.
> > :-)
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > john h
> >
>
> Just prior to the break I guess it does get into mush mode, but I never
> really tried to keep it there, I always had the mind set that I was
> practicing stalls - so that is what I did. It is not what I would call a
> sharp stall break, but at about 35 mph the nose does drop. They are
really
> a non-eventful thing, just ease up on the stick preasure and your flying
> again. But close to the ground if the nose falls through your in for
> trouble.
>
>
> John Anderson
> *******************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
Ken and Kolbers,
Sorry, but I beg to differ; some things can be stretched - but one can
stretch too far.
Original FS: 5 ribs approx 550 lb. GW ( I forget the exact figure) Ralph
says 535 ... sounds about rights.
FireFly: 5 ribs 500 lb. GW (lighter spar attach fittings)
TwinStar: 7 ribs 725 lbs. GW
TwinStar Mark-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW (longer H-section)
FireStar-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW
Mark-III: 9 ribs 1000 lb GW.
As you can see there is a very strong correlation between # of ribs and GW
and there is a very good reason for this: higher GW requires more ribs. A
"bit over 700 lbs" .... seems like 7 ribs would be required.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
>
> ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> > ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
> >
> > From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
> >
> >
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5
rib
> > wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and
trailered
> > it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
> > Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar
I
> > loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of
fuel and
> > a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They
both
> > said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed
weight
> > and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> > The Rookie
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it may be
an Original Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is it?
Does it have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Easier
yet, does it have full-span ailerons?
> >
> > Ralph Burlingame
> > Original Firestar
> > 15 years flying it
> >
>
> Mr. Burlingame,
>
> Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief.
When I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not
buy it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told
it had 7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first
thing I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb
and Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no
plane if my concerns could not be
> answered to my satisfaction.
>
>
> I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date
of the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993
and has a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer
ailerons, but no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural
integrity with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb,
and showed him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing
spar and the 3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins
before I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10
gallons of fuel and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased
engine size and my weight is acceptable- just
> keep it under 800 pounds gross.
>
> This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
>
> You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them.
Send them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you
want- I've got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
>
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Custom Utilities, LLC
> www.customutilitiesllc.com
> Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
>
> PO Box 173685
> Arlington, Texas
> 76003-3685
>
> 817-572-6832 voice
> 817-572-6842 fax
> 817-657-6500 cell
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
Mr. Souder,
Ray Brown, Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins- all the heavy hitters in and
around Kolb and Lite Speed Aviation said that they are putting 503 's on 5
rib wings more and more with satisfactory results. They all said that my
vehicle is airworthy at an 800 pound gross. The one I have wasn't the first
nor was it the last one produced.
I doubt that neither Kolb nor Lite Speed Aviation would be producing the
aircraft that I have if it wasn't an acceptable combination- they would go
the way of TEAM very quickly and be sued out of existence after the first
airframe came apart inflight.
I think that you guys on the list are very knowledgeable about the Kolb line
because you are the ones building and operating them daily. But, am I wrong to
trust the opinion of those who design, manufacture and commercially produce
these airplanes?
I guess that's the $64,000 question.
However, I think I'll check the date on my BRS again...
**The Rookie**
Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> Ken and Kolbers,
>
> Sorry, but I beg to differ; some things can be stretched - but one can
> stretch too far.
>
> Original FS: 5 ribs approx 550 lb. GW ( I forget the exact figure) Ralph
> says 535 ... sounds about rights.
> FireFly: 5 ribs 500 lb. GW (lighter spar attach fittings)
> TwinStar: 7 ribs 725 lbs. GW
> TwinStar Mark-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW (longer H-section)
> FireStar-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW
> Mark-III: 9 ribs 1000 lb GW.
>
> As you can see there is a very strong correlation between # of ribs and GW
> and there is a very good reason for this: higher GW requires more ribs. A
> "bit over 700 lbs" .... seems like 7 ribs would be required.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
>
> >
> > ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
> > >
> > > From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> > > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5
> rib
> > > wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and
> trailered
> > > it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
> > > Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar
> I
> > > loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of
> fuel and
> > > a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They
> both
> > > said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed
> weight
> > > and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> > > The Rookie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it may be
> an Original Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is it?
> Does it have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Easier
> yet, does it have full-span ailerons?
> > >
> > > Ralph Burlingame
> > > Original Firestar
> > > 15 years flying it
> > >
> >
> > Mr. Burlingame,
> >
> > Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief.
> When I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not
> buy it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told
> it had 7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> > were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first
> thing I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb
> and Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no
> plane if my concerns could not be
> > answered to my satisfaction.
> >
> >
> > I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date
> of the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993
> and has a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer
> ailerons, but no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> > the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural
> integrity with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb,
> and showed him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing
> spar and the 3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> > attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins
> before I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10
> gallons of fuel and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased
> engine size and my weight is acceptable- just
> > keep it under 800 pounds gross.
> >
> > This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
> >
> > You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them.
> Send them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you
> want- I've got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
> >
> > --
> > *********************
> > Ken W. Korenek
> >
> > Custom Utilities, LLC
> > www.customutilitiesllc.com
> > Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
> >
> > PO Box 173685
> > Arlington, Texas
> > 76003-3685
> >
> > 817-572-6832 voice
> > 817-572-6842 fax
> > 817-657-6500 cell
> > 817-483-8054 home
> >
> >
> =======
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Ray Brown, Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins- all the heavy hitters in and
> around Kolb and Lite Speed Aviation said that they are putting 503 's on 5
> rib wings more and more with satisfactory results. They all said that my
> vehicle is airworthy at an 800 pound gross. The one I have wasn't the first
> nor was it the last one produced.
> **The Rookie**
Rookie/Gang:
Sounds like you have a "hybrid" Firestar, newer fuselage and
old 5 main rib wings. Didn't you say your Firestar had been
trashed and rebuilt?
Recommend you take the advice of Dennis Souder. I think he
knows what he is talking about.
In 1986, I ordered a Firestar Kit with 447 Rotax. Homer
Kolb would not sell me the 447 because he felt it was too
much power for the original Firestar.
Ribs in the old Firestars were .028" 5/16 alum. Not a whole
lot of metal holding up those leading edges.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Just curious here...my mkIII project originally had aluminum H sections
in the wing spars (now one is steel). What was the history of these
things? originally aluminum or just an interim product? -BB do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Anderson" <janderson3(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Third flight in the UltraStar |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Third flight in the UltraStar
> jump up & bend the crap out of both legs. When I converted it to
flaperons,
> with just a touch of power & 45 degrees of deflection, it would come
almost
> straight down (ie, very little forward motion) with complete control
> authority-- even enough to deal with mild gusts, and if I remember
correctly
> the rate of descent was about 1200-1500fpm.
>
Richard,
Whenever I have a question, I usually go search the archive first. I found
some previous posts about your Ultrastar. Sounds like you really loved the
ole bird......
The above statement about converting to Flaperons really has my curiosity
up, how did you do it? Got any plans or pictures? What about before/after
flight results?
John Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> Just curious here...my mkIII project originally had aluminum H sections
> in the wing spars (now one is steel). What was the history of these
> things? originally aluminum or just an interim product? -BB
BB?Gang:
Originally 4130 then aluminum and back to steel. I have
aluminum "H" braces in the wings and 4130 in the tail boom
on my MK III. Went through two tail booms in a year. The
third one has lasted 9 years, but got dinged when I ground
looped at Muncho Lake and knocked down an alder tree on the
side of the airstrip. Miss P'fer wears that scare proudly,
as she does many others she has accumulated during her long
and loyal career.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- Bob Bean writes:
Just curious here...my mkIII project originally had aluminum H sections
in the wing spars (now one is steel). What was the history of these
things? originally aluminum or just an interim product? -BB do not
archive
I thought all Kolbs had steel H-sections in the wings. What point would there be
in using aluminum for these?
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov> |
> Ray Brown, Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins- all the heavy hitters in
and
> around Kolb and Lite Speed Aviation said that they are putting 503 's
on 5
> rib wings more and more with satisfactory results. They all said
that my
> vehicle is airworthy at an 800 pound gross. The one I have wasn't
the first
> nor was it the last one produced.
> **The Rookie**
I also recommend you take the advice of Dennis Souder. For the rookie,
Dennis Souder was the owner of Kolb Aircraft before it got sold to the
New Kolb. He also was at least directly involved with the design of the
airplanes we are flying today. He was also THE test pilot who took at
least one of their designs out and intentionally broke it. He is why our
planes are so strong. We are extremely lucky to have Dennis out there
watching over his flock kolbs.
my $.03 cents worth
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
> I thought all Kolbs had steel H-sections in the wings. What point would there
be in using aluminum for these?
>
> Ralph Burlingame
Ralph/Gents:
You know what they say about "assumptions". :-)
Good question for Dennis S. Probably his idea. Got mine
first part of 1991. Saved the cleaning, priming, and
painting process. Do they work? Yes. Don't know what the
difference is in weight, etc.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
OK Gentlemen,
I've been shown the light. My new baby is probably safe in calm air and
nearly empty fuel tanks.
Maybe. Maybe the first thermal I hit will be my last. At any rate, I'm
too afraid to fly it now. What a mess this has turned out to be. And
probably a costly one, too.
I went to the trouble to drive from Fort Worth to Kentucky and pay top
dollar for this airplane because it was rebuilt by Lite Speed Aviation and in
such great shape (it is gorgeous). When I had questions, I asked the advice of
those who should have the expert opinion. Lite Speed Aviation has such a great
reputation and TNK is supposedly in business to stay. They wouldn't/couldn't
give bad advice.
Now, I'm not so sure...
I NEVER buy a used car because no matter how careful I am in the buying
process, I won't know that I've got junk until I get it home. How I ever
convinced myself that this same philosophy wouldn't hold true in airplanes is
beyond me...
It is painted yellow. Lemon yellow.
What do I do now?
Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> Ken and Kolbers,
>
> Sorry, but I beg to differ; some things can be stretched - but one can
> stretch too far.
>
> Original FS: 5 ribs approx 550 lb. GW ( I forget the exact figure) Ralph
> says 535 ... sounds about rights.
> FireFly: 5 ribs 500 lb. GW (lighter spar attach fittings)
> TwinStar: 7 ribs 725 lbs. GW
> TwinStar Mark-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW (longer H-section)
> FireStar-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW
> Mark-III: 9 ribs 1000 lb GW.
>
> As you can see there is a very strong correlation between # of ribs and GW
> and there is a very good reason for this: higher GW requires more ribs. A
> "bit over 700 lbs" .... seems like 7 ribs would be required.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
>
> >
> > ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
> > >
> > > From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> > > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > > Gentlemen,
> > >
> > > I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5
> rib
> > > wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and
> trailered
> > > it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
> > > Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar
> I
> > > loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of
> fuel and
> > > a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They
> both
> > > said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed
> weight
> > > and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> > > The Rookie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it may be
> an Original Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is it?
> Does it have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Easier
> yet, does it have full-span ailerons?
> > >
> > > Ralph Burlingame
> > > Original Firestar
> > > 15 years flying it
> > >
> >
> > Mr. Burlingame,
> >
> > Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in disbelief.
> When I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would not
> buy it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was told
> it had 7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> > were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the first
> thing I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to Kolb
> and Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with no
> plane if my concerns could not be
> > answered to my satisfaction.
> >
> >
> > I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the date
> of the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is 11/19/1993
> and has a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer
> ailerons, but no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> > the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about structural
> integrity with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at Kolb,
> and showed him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing
> spar and the 3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> > attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins
> before I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10
> gallons of fuel and my weight. The general consenus was that the increased
> engine size and my weight is acceptable- just
> > keep it under 800 pounds gross.
> >
> > This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
> >
> > You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them.
> Send them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as you
> want- I've got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
> >
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net> |
Rookie,
Listen to Dennis.
Do not listen to the heavy hitters.
How about building the 7 rib wings? Wings are fun to build, and go together
quickly. Then you would have an idea of how these are built, and how to care
for them, what to look for etc...
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
>
> Mr. Souder,
>
> Ray Brown, Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins- all the heavy hitters in and
> around Kolb and Lite Speed Aviation said that they are putting 503 's on 5
> rib wings more and more with satisfactory results. They all said that my
> vehicle is airworthy at an 800 pound gross. The one I have wasn't the
first
> nor was it the last one produced.
>
> I doubt that neither Kolb nor Lite Speed Aviation would be producing the
> aircraft that I have if it wasn't an acceptable combination- they would go
> the way of TEAM very quickly and be sued out of existence after the first
> airframe came apart inflight.
>
> I think that you guys on the list are very knowledgeable about the Kolb
line
> because you are the ones building and operating them daily. But, am I
wrong to
> trust the opinion of those who design, manufacture and commercially
produce
> these airplanes?
>
>
> I guess that's the $64,000 question.
>
> However, I think I'll check the date on my BRS again...
>
> **The Rookie**
>
>
> Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> >
> > Ken and Kolbers,
> >
> > Sorry, but I beg to differ; some things can be stretched - but one can
> > stretch too far.
> >
> > Original FS: 5 ribs approx 550 lb. GW ( I forget the exact figure) Ralph
> > says 535 ... sounds about rights.
> > FireFly: 5 ribs 500 lb. GW (lighter spar attach fittings)
> > TwinStar: 7 ribs 725 lbs. GW
> > TwinStar Mark-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW (longer H-section)
> > FireStar-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW
> > Mark-III: 9 ribs 1000 lb GW.
> >
> > As you can see there is a very strong correlation between # of ribs and
GW
> > and there is a very good reason for this: higher GW requires more ribs.
A
> > "bit over 700 lbs" .... seems like 7 ribs would be required.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
> >
> > >
> > > ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
> > > >
> > > > From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> > > > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a
503, 5
> > rib
> > > > wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and
> > trailered
> > > > it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
> > > > Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a
FireStar
> > I
> > > > loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of
> > fuel and
> > > > a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds.
They
> > both
> > > > said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a
detailed
> > weight
> > > > and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> > > > The Rookie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does, it
may be
> > an Original Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year is
it?
> > Does it have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull tubes. Ea
sier
> > yet, does it have full-span ailerons?
> > > >
> > > > Ralph Burlingame
> > > > Original Firestar
> > > > 15 years flying it
> > > >
> > >
> > > Mr. Burlingame,
> > >
> > > Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in
disbelief.
> > When I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I would
not
> > buy it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I was
told
> > it had 7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> > > were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and the
first
> > thing I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the phone to
Kolb
> > and Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas with
no
> > plane if my concerns could not be
> > > answered to my satisfaction.
> > >
> > >
> > > I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show the
date
> > of the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is
11/19/1993
> > and has a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the longer
> > ailerons, but no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> > > the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about
structural
> > integrity with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown at
Kolb,
> > and showed him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the wing
> > spar and the 3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> > > attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny Mullins
> > before I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503, 10
> > gallons of fuel and my weight. The general consenus was that the
increased
> > engine size and my weight is acceptable- just
> > > keep it under 800 pounds gross.
> > >
> > > This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
> > >
> > > You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see them.
> > Send them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many as
you
> > want- I've got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
> > >
> > > --
> > > *********************
> > > Ken W. Korenek
> > >
> > > Custom Utilities, LLC
> > > www.customutilitiesllc.com
> > > Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
> > >
> > > PO Box 173685
> > > Arlington, Texas
> > > 76003-3685
> > >
> > > 817-572-6832 voice
> > > 817-572-6842 fax
> > > 817-657-6500 cell
> > > 817-483-8054 home
> > >
> > >
> > =======
>
>
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Custom Utilities, LLC
> www.customutilitiesllc.com
> Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
>
> PO Box 173685
> Arlington, Texas
> 76003-3685
>
> 817-572-6832 voice
> 817-572-6842 fax
> 817-657-6500 cell
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
Hey Ken,
Just for your information, Mr. Souder is an EX - HEAVY HITTER with the
old
Kolb Co. and we value and respect his input greatly.
You may not be aware of his background.
Hans van Alphen
Mark III Xtra
BMW powered
34 hours.
I'd go a step further...when Dennis speaks...case closed, no more
discussion.
I would say there are 2 options here, Ken...Build 7 rib wings, or put a
smaller engine on it and live under the lower gross weight. I'd hate to
fly a plane without a normal safety margin for pilot error (or pilot
stupidity...both CAN happen) ;-( Sorry buddy...
Jeremy Casey
jrcasey(at)ldl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
Mr.Casey,
I'll be rebuilding my wings shortly.
Lite Speed did such a good job on the coverings... so tight...so smooth...
It's gonna' kill me to rip it all off.
But, that's better than it killing me when it falls off inflight...
Mr. Souder said it, and I have come to believe it.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. All you guys may be the reason I'm
still alive next week...
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net> |
Hi Kolbers:=0D
My Mark 3 has all aluminum H sections. Purchased in 1994.=0D
Dallas Shepherd=0D
Mark 3/2200 jabiru
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
Ken and others,
I've been out for awhile, but getting back in, found this interesting
thread -- maybe Ken you have another word for it.
Your plane is in the gray area -- not a good place for an airplane.
Because of the design load limits, and the fact that Kolbs have a good
history even at gross weight, it would be okay in mild conditions.
But, I think you are wise to take the conservative approach to not fly
it, as it would be so far over the design limits of the wings. "Heavy
hitters" might get used to saying a 5 rib wing can carry a 503 as that
engine is only slightly heavier than a 447. But add in your XL size
and the 10 gal and everything adds up to way over gross. Airplanes can
bring on a lot of frustration, but that is better than bringing on
disaster in the air. I wonder if Lite Speed "heavy hitters" ever did
any structural calculations or tests, or if they are just basing their
statements on having seen none of us (yet) break a plane like yours.
I believe there is info, probably in the matronics Kolb archives on how
to beef up a 5 wing rib to carry more weight. It involves attaching
angle aluminum alongside each rib from the leading edge back to above
the main spar. This of course would also involve recovering. I cannot
picture modifying a 5 rib wing to a 7 rib, as you'd have all those
extra holes in the spar from the old 5 rib spacing.
-Ben Ransom
--- Ken Korenek wrote:
>
> OK Gentlemen,
>
> I've been shown the light. My new baby is probably safe in calm
> air and
> nearly empty fuel tanks.
>
> Maybe. Maybe the first thermal I hit will be my last. At any
> rate, I'm
> too afraid to fly it now. What a mess this has turned out to be.
> And
> probably a costly one, too.
>
> I went to the trouble to drive from Fort Worth to Kentucky and
> pay top
> dollar for this airplane because it was rebuilt by Lite Speed
> Aviation and in
> such great shape (it is gorgeous). When I had questions, I asked
> the advice of
> those who should have the expert opinion. Lite Speed Aviation has
> such a great
> reputation and TNK is supposedly in business to stay. They
> wouldn't/couldn't
> give bad advice.
>
> Now, I'm not so sure...
>
> I NEVER buy a used car because no matter how careful I am in the
> buying
> process, I won't know that I've got junk until I get it home. How I
> ever
> convinced myself that this same philosophy wouldn't hold true in
> airplanes is
> beyond me...
>
> It is painted yellow. Lemon yellow.
>
>
> What do I do now?
>
>
> Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> >
> > Ken and Kolbers,
> >
> > Sorry, but I beg to differ; some things can be stretched - but one
> can
> > stretch too far.
> >
> > Original FS: 5 ribs approx 550 lb. GW ( I forget the exact figure)
> Ralph
> > says 535 ... sounds about rights.
> > FireFly: 5 ribs 500 lb. GW (lighter spar attach fittings)
> > TwinStar: 7 ribs 725 lbs. GW
> > TwinStar Mark-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW (longer H-section)
> > FireStar-II: 7 ribs 750 lb. GW
> > Mark-III: 9 ribs 1000 lb GW.
> >
> > As you can see there is a very strong correlation between # of ribs
> and GW
> > and there is a very good reason for this: higher GW requires more
> ribs. A
> > "bit over 700 lbs" .... seems like 7 ribs would be required.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner
> >
> > >
> > > ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
> > > >
> > > > From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> > > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner
> > > > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:49:45 -0500
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with
> a 503, 5
> > rib
> > > > wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia
> and
> > trailered
> > > > it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite
> Speed
> > > > Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a
> FireStar
> > I
> > > > loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10
> gallons of
> > fuel and
> > > > a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds.
> They
> > both
> > > > said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a
> detailed
> > weight
> > > > and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
> > > > The Rookie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken, are you sure this Firestar has a 5-rib wing? If it does,
> it may be
> > an Original Firestar that has a gross weight of 535 lbs. What year
> is it?
> > Does it have two aileron bell cranks with horizontal push pull
> tubes. Easier
> > yet, does it have full-span ailerons?
> > > >
> > > > Ralph Burlingame
> > > > Original Firestar
> > > > 15 years flying it
> > > >
> > >
> > > Mr. Burlingame,
> > >
> > > Yes, it has only 5 ribs. I counted them several times in
> disbelief.
> > When I did my homework before buying the plane, I decided that I
> would not
> > buy it with only 5 ribs. When I asked about the number of ribs, I
> was told
> > it had 7 ribs. The pictures I saw
> > > were not clear. I drove all the way from Texas to Kentucky and
> the first
> > thing I saw was 5 ribs. Surprise! That's when I got on the
> phone to Kolb
> > and Light Speed Aviation. I would have gladly returned to Texas
> with no
> > plane if my concerns could not be
> > > answered to my satisfaction.
> > >
> > >
> > > I just got off the phone with Linda at Kolb and records show
> the date
> > of the sale of the first kit to a Jerry Ray in Greensboro, NC is
> 11/19/1993
> > and has a airframe serial number of FS438. It does have the
> longer
> > ailerons, but no horizontal push-pull tubes or
> > > the two bellcranks you mentioned. I had big questions about
> structural
> > integrity with the larger engine and my weight. I asked Ray Brown
> at Kolb,
> > and showed him the plane. He told me about the "H" sections in the
> wing
> > spar and the 3/8 bolt holding on the strut
> > > attach fitting. I also talked with Brian Milburn and Danny
> Mullins
> > before I bought it to make sure it was capable of handling the 503,
> 10
> > gallons of fuel and my weight. The general consenus was that the
> increased
> > engine size and my weight is acceptable- just
> > > keep it under 800 pounds gross.
> > >
> > > This is exactly the kind of dialog I need- thanks.
> > >
> > > You have any pictures of your early bird? I'd love to see
> them.
> > Send them to my e-mail address- ken-foi(at)attbi.com Send as many
> as you
> > want- I've got cable access and down loads pretty fast.
> > >
>
>
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Custom Utilities, LLC
> www.customutilitiesllc.com
> Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
>
> PO Box 173685
> Arlington, Texas
> 76003-3685
>
> 817-572-6832 voice
> 817-572-6842 fax
> 817-657-6500 cell
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
Welp if you are going to rebuild then I HIGHLY suggest that you, invest in a
BRS!!!
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Korenek [mailto:ken-foi(at)attbi.com]
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02
Mr.Casey,
I'll be rebuilding my wings shortly.
Lite Speed did such a good job on the coverings... so tight...so smooth...
It's gonna' kill me to rip it all off.
But, that's better than it killing me when it falls off inflight...
Mr. Souder said it, and I have come to believe it.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. All you guys may be the reason I'm
still alive next week...
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
One point that we may be missing here is that Lite Speed Aviation said that
they did install strengthening devices when they rebuilt the wings. In a
phone call to Lite Speed, Brian Milburn said he remembered the rebuild and
that the wings were beefed up. Ray Brown at Kolb looked at the strut
attach fittings and said that indicated by the size of the bolt, an "H"
section had been installed in the spar.
Does this Strengthening make enough difference to put me back into the "safe"
zone?
Mr. Souder, Please let me contact you directly. (ken-foi(at)attbi.com) I'd
sure like to talk to you before I either sell my 503 and install a 447, loose
60 pounds off my carcass as one person suggested, spend the $5000 on new
wings, sell the whole thing or just fly it and take my chances. None of the
above choices are great and I'll do what is necessary. I just want to make
sure I chose the right path. I've already made enough bad decisions on this
beast.
**The ROOKIE**
> I believe there is info, probably in the matronics Kolb archives on how
> to beef up a 5 wing rib to carry more weight. It involves attaching
> angle aluminum alongside each rib from the leading edge back to above
> the main spar. This of course would also involve recovering. I cannot
> picture modifying a 5 rib wing to a 7 rib, as you'd have all those
> extra holes in the spar from the old 5 rib spacing.
>
> -Ben Ransom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- Ken Korenek writes:
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:33:45 -0500
One point that we may be missing here is that Lite Speed Aviation said that
they did install strengthening devices when they rebuilt the wings. In a
phone call to Lite Speed, Brian Milburn said he remembered the rebuild and
that the wings were beefed up. Ray Brown at Kolb looked at the strut
attach fittings and said that indicated by the size of the bolt, an "H"
section had been installed in the spar.
Does this Strengthening make enough difference to put me back into the "safe"
zone?
Ken,
All Firestars have the 3/8" H-section bolt. What you could do is limit the throttle
on the 503 with a stop. This would be a cheap fix. It sounds like the rest
of the plane is ok with the 503.
Don't be in dispair because you got the 5-rib wing. It's strong believe me. I have
heard of other 5-rib wings with 503's on them. They probably have the stop
on them too. Find out what else they did to strengthen the wing. Maybe you are
ok.
This is the first time I've heard of the H-sections being aluminum. This I don't
understand except to say it sounds like a cost-saving measure. Glad I got the
4130 steel ones. Live and learn.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Volum" <pvolum(at)etsmiami.com> |
| Subject: | 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
Hey guys, keep this conversation in "group mode". It's good stuff that
others can benefit from! We want to see it through to the end.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Korenek
Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503
One point that we may be missing here is that Lite Speed Aviation said
that
they did install strengthening devices when they rebuilt the wings. In
a
phone call to Lite Speed, Brian Milburn said he remembered the rebuild
and
that the wings were beefed up. Ray Brown at Kolb looked at the strut
attach fittings and said that indicated by the size of the bolt, an "H"
section had been installed in the spar.
Does this Strengthening make enough difference to put me back into the
"safe"
zone?
Mr. Souder, Please let me contact you directly. (ken-foi(at)attbi.com)
I'd
sure like to talk to you before I either sell my 503 and install a 447,
loose
60 pounds off my carcass as one person suggested, spend the $5000 on new
wings, sell the whole thing or just fly it and take my chances. None
of the
above choices are great and I'll do what is necessary. I just want to
make
sure I chose the right path. I've already made enough bad decisions on
this
beast.
**The ROOKIE**
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
Ralph, the aluminum H sections are very nicely done with a variable
flexure designed in by virture of the internals. I would easily put as
much trust in them as the steel ones. --and they won't rust. -BB
ul15rhb(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> ---------- Ken Korenek writes:
>
> From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503
> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:33:45 -0500
>
>
> One point that we may be missing here is that Lite Speed Aviation said that
> they did install strengthening devices when they rebuilt the wings. In a
> phone call to Lite Speed, Brian Milburn said he remembered the rebuild and
> that the wings were beefed up. Ray Brown at Kolb looked at the strut
> attach fittings and said that indicated by the size of the bolt, an "H"
> section had been installed in the spar.
>
> Does this Strengthening make enough difference to put me back into the "safe"
> zone?
>
> Ken,
>
> All Firestars have the 3/8" H-section bolt. What you could do is limit the throttle
on the 503 with a stop. This would be a cheap fix. It sounds like the rest
of the plane is ok with the 503.
>
> Don't be in dispair because you got the 5-rib wing. It's strong believe me. I
have heard of other 5-rib wings with 503's on them. They probably have the stop
on them too. Find out what else they did to strengthen the wing. Maybe you
are ok.
>
> This is the first time I've heard of the H-sections being aluminum. This I don't
understand except to say it sounds like a cost-saving measure. Glad I got
the 4130 steel ones. Live and learn.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
> 15 years flying it
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
> It's gonna' kill me to rip it all off.
> Ken W. Korenek
Den/Gang:
Maybe you have already considered this, but rather than pull
good fabric off good 5 rib wings, why not sell them, get
enough in the sale to buy the material to build new 7 rib
wings.
Just a thought.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
> One point that we may be missing here is that Lite Speed Aviation said that
> they did install strengthening devices when they rebuilt the wings. In a
> phone call to Lite Speed, Brian Milburn said he remembered the rebuild and
> that the wings were beefed up. Ray Brown at Kolb looked at the strut
> attach fittings and said that indicated by the size of the bolt, an "H"
> section had been installed in the spar.
Ken/Gang:
What kind of "strengthening devices" were installed? How
were the wings beefed up?
All Kolb main spars have "h" braces and 3/8" and 1/2" bolts
for the wing strut fittings.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
> It's strong believe me. I have heard of other 5-rib wings with 503's on them.
They probably have the stop on them too.
> This is the first time I've heard of the H-sections being aluminum. This I don't
understand except to say it sounds like a cost-saving measure. Glad I got
the 4130 steel ones. Live and learn.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
Ralph/Gang:
Does the throttle stop reduce gross weight?
I think Dennis Souder has the answer to the aluminum "h"
brace delema. Doubt if it was cost saving. Glad you have
the 4130 steel ones. Would not want your wing to fail.
Miss P'fer has been flying with aluminum "h" braces since
day one, more than 1,675 tough/very heavy hours. When I
pulled the fabric from her left wing two years and 200 or so
hours ago, her little aluminum "h" braces looked just like
they were supposed to. :-)
Take care (extra care),
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
> The 503 is a little more than 7 lbs heavier than a 447, so the added
> weight is not a factor. The horsepower that it generates is a factor. I
> think a throttle stop would be an ok fix.
Gentlemen,
I am taking all of your comments seriously and in consideration before I
figure out what i will do. I am going to talk again with the guys at both
TNK and Lite Speed and get details of the "beefing" they told me that I have
and supposedly is adequate. Then I hope to talk to Mr. Souder and give him
the details to see if a new set of wings is REALLY necessary. Can I just
add two ribs and respace on the existing structure or would I have to start a
new build. Are holes in the wing spar detrimental? If I have to build a
new set of wings to get the margin back, then I will do just that. But not
until I'm sure I have to.
Referring to the comment above from Mr. Burlingame, a 503 is only a few
pounds heavier than a 447. If torque and horsepower is the big difference,
then does my cage have the structural integrity to react adequately to the
power?
I asked that question to TNK and Lite Speed as well. Again, they all
said "yes." There are no differences between the cages, tail boom and tail
fins of the FSI vs. the FSII. When I bent the gear leg this weekend, I
found out that I had the FSI leg- 1.125 diameter with a sleeve instead of the
1.250 diameter leg from a friend's FSII. That is a big difference when it
comes to total bending moment with 711 pounds gross. That is independent of
the number of ribs in the wing.
Now, there are mitigating circumstances as far as the leg is concerned.
The aircraft was crashed in 1999- serious crash- and the left gear was
replaced, but the right leg was not. I suspect that the amount of bending
that I had Saturday indicates the right gear was affected in the crash and
not detected. I bounced, but not that badly. After the leg bent, the
right wingtip was only 2 feet off the ground. Pretty hefty bend for a "not
that bad" a landing. Couldn't taxi back to the hangar straight, either...
My next question to you all: Is the cage and gear strong enough to
handle a 503, 10 gallons of fuel and a 250 pound pilot?
What other differences are there between the FSI and FSII that we haven't
thought of?
Life is rough when you are a rookie, know nothing and question
everything...
**the Rookie**
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
writes:
> My next question to you all: Is the cage and gear strong enough to
> handle a 503, 10 gallons of fuel and a 250 pound pilot?
>
> What other differences are there between the FSI and FSII that
> we haven't thought of?
>
>
> Life is rough when you are a rookie, know nothing and question
> everything...
>
> **the Rookie**
Ken,
Most of us have the heavier aluminum 7075 gear legs that are much
stronger. They are thicker and longer. Some have heat-treated steel ones
that are stronger yet.
I don't think there are any other differences between the I and II. The
cage is definitely strong enough for you and the fuel. The wings are the
only problem here. Earlier I said that adding a throttle stop would fix
your problem, BUT I didn't take into consideration pilot weight.
Ralph Burlingame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503 |
> Can I just
>add two ribs and respace on the existing structure or would I have to start a
>new build. Are holes in the wing spar detrimental? If I have to build a
>new set of wings to get the margin back, then I will do just that. But not
>until I'm sure I have to.
If it were me I would leave it as is and just fly on good days like
most of us anyway. Have fun. You don't often need 10 gallons of gas so
that will reduce some of the flying weight. A friend of mine who is
building a quicky2 decided the only weight reduction he could really get on
his airplane was removing stuff from the cockpit. He has lost about 80 lbs.
That takes a lot of dedication to do but it is worth it.
If you do decide to add 2 or more ribs you may be able to add a few on
the inboard side of the wing between the false ribs. You would only have
to remove half of the fabric to do that. Each rib takes one 12' length of
tubing. Most of the stresses are toward the root of the wing. Of course
check with Dennis on this mod. No matter what you do I think your wing is
stronger than any other wing out there right now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing at 800 lb GW; & Alum H-section |
Ken,
First, it is possible that TNK has re-evaluated the G-ratings of the Kolb
Aircraft and decided that TOK was a bit on the conservative side in
establishing the limit loading of the Kolb aircraft. I know Barnaby Wainfan
was associated with TOK for a while and he may have looked into this.
So when I say that you should really have 7 ribs, I am going by old Kolb's
standard of setting the number of ribs in proportion to the gross weight of
the aircraft. I do consider the ribs to be the weakest point in the wing -
but don't jump to conclusions and think the wings are weak because of the
ribs - this is not the case. It simply means that every structure has a
part that will fail before the other parts of the structure. A chain has a
weak link; one link will fail when it is overloaded. If the weak link is
stronger than the applied load, then the chain or structure is sufficiently
strong.
It does no good to strength the stronger links because they are stronger
than necessary already and they will not fail because the weakest link will
fail first. So when there is talk about "beefing" up a part(s), hopefully
they are strengthening weak points, otherwise they are just adding extra
weight and obtaining a false sense of security. In my opinion,
strengthening anything in a 5-rib wing - except for the ribs - is a waste of
time.
Ideally every component in a wing structure is appropriately sized so that
no excess weight is being carried; this is the meat of engineering, to make
sure all parts are strong enough, but not overly strong because that would
mean excess weight and other factors being equal, less payload. This is
seldom realized simply because materials such as tubing are not available in
sufficiently small increments to provide ideal sizing. Spars jump from 5"
to 6". For the 5 rib wings, 5" x 050 is stronger than necessary and
probably stronger than necessary for even the 7 rib wings. But it is not
strong enough for the 9 rib wings, but the 6" is stronger than needed.
This may help you to understand the importance of setting the number of wing
ribs in proportion to the GW of the airplane and this is why I focused on
the GW and not, for instance, the presence of the 503. The GW is the more
fundamental issue. I would be interested in knowing how the 800 lb GW
figure was established because it seems to be asking a lot of those 5 ribs
per wing.
I realized that many Kolbs have been flown at over their design GWs, but
this really does not prove too much. Maybe they flew like a grandmother,
and only in relatively calm air. Quite a few years ago I wanted to hop
rides at an extended family gathering. None of the usual Kolb aircraft were
available that weekend, so I improvised. We had a TwinStar with a 503 that
was complete except for the wings, and there was a pair of 5 rib FireStar
wings. So I installed the FS wings on the TS and made up a set of lift
struts and I had my ride-hopping aircraft. That evening still stands out as
one of the most memorable evenings of flying I have ever done. Everything
was perfect, the temperature, low humidity, beautiful blue sky and freshly
mowed hay field, all set in a beautiful rural valley. I probably took 30
rides that evening and we all had a ball. Probably I was flying at up to
850 lb GW. I would not do it again, not at that weight, nor with a
passenger. Somehow increasing age tends to make most of us more
conservative; the longer you live, the more opportunities you have to
observe things that go wrong. And in aviation, there are lots of things
that can go wrong! I would not fear to fly your aircraft given reasonable
flying conditions. But I would not say to you, load 'er up to 800 lbs and
go rip some holes I the sky. Safety factors give necessary margins, but
those margins are there for the unexpected and unusual elements in structure
and flying conditions. When you overload, you squeeze the margins out and
have less reserve strength for the unexpected.
Concerning the FS, the I and II series (not the original FS) the differences
were primarily in the wings. The FireStar II had the 7-ribs and it had a
full-length drag strut sleeve. The lift struts may have had a full-length
inner sleeve - not sure about this. The gear legs had the 1-1/4" dia legs
and there may have been a couple other relatively insignificant differences.
Cages were identical. Later, the only difference between the I & II was the
extra ribs and the things associated with the second seat.
If you wanted to strengthen the wing you could do as someone had already
mentioned: adding reinforcement angles on the ribs; this, in my estimation
would be a reasonable approach. It would not be feasible to add any more
ribs, just strengthen the ones you have.
The aluminum H-sections in the early Mark-IIIs were an attempt to reduce the
amount of different metals in the wing. It was given up for a reason you
would never guess. The high frequency used for welding aluminum, screwed up
our phone lines and basically rendered them unusable whenever we were
welding aluminum. We tried all sorts of shielding, but nothing worked, so
we went back to steel. Both types were equivalent in strength.
The aluminum was made from 1" x 058 , plus there was an addition sleeve with
a 1/8" thick wall, centered at the " attach bolt. Those of you who built
these wings may remember you had to use the " long rivets in this portion
of the H-section.
Landing gears do bend and commonly the pilot feels he didn't hit that hard,
probably nothing unusual here.
I hope this helps put things in perspective. If you have further questions,
please ask, I can sense your frustration and I'll do my best to help.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Korenek" <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Wing w/ 503
>
> > The 503 is a little more than 7 lbs heavier than a 447, so the added
> > weight is not a factor. The horsepower that it generates is a factor. I
> > think a throttle stop would be an ok fix.
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I am taking all of your comments seriously and in consideration before
I
> figure out what i will do. I am going to talk again with the guys at
both
> TNK and Lite Speed and get details of the "beefing" they told me that I
have
> and supposedly is adequate. Then I hope to talk to Mr. Souder and give
him
> the details to see if a new set of wings is REALLY necessary. Can I just
> add two ribs and respace on the existing structure or would I have to
start a
> new build. Are holes in the wing spar detrimental? If I have to build
a
> new set of wings to get the margin back, then I will do just that. But
not
> until I'm sure I have to.
>
> Referring to the comment above from Mr. Burlingame, a 503 is only a
few
> pounds heavier than a 447. If torque and horsepower is the big
difference,
> then does my cage have the structural integrity to react adequately to the
> power?
>
> I asked that question to TNK and Lite Speed as well. Again, they all
> said "yes." There are no differences between the cages, tail boom and
tail
> fins of the FSI vs. the FSII. When I bent the gear leg this weekend, I
> found out that I had the FSI leg- 1.125 diameter with a sleeve instead of
the
> 1.250 diameter leg from a friend's FSII. That is a big difference when it
> comes to total bending moment with 711 pounds gross. That is independent
of
> the number of ribs in the wing.
>
> Now, there are mitigating circumstances as far as the leg is
concerned.
> The aircraft was crashed in 1999- serious crash- and the left gear was
> replaced, but the right leg was not. I suspect that the amount of
bending
> that I had Saturday indicates the right gear was affected in the crash and
> not detected. I bounced, but not that badly. After the leg bent, the
> right wingtip was only 2 feet off the ground. Pretty hefty bend for a
"not
> that bad" a landing. Couldn't taxi back to the hangar straight,
either...
>
> My next question to you all: Is the cage and gear strong enough to
> handle a 503, 10 gallons of fuel and a 250 pound pilot?
>
> What other differences are there between the FSI and FSII that we
haven't
> thought of?
>
>
> Life is rough when you are a rookie, know nothing and question
> everything...
>
> **the Rookie**
>
>
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Custom Utilities, LLC
> www.customutilitiesllc.com
> Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
>
> PO Box 173685
> Arlington, Texas
> 76003-3685
>
> 817-572-6832 voice
> 817-572-6842 fax
> 817-657-6500 cell
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> |
Don't feel to bad about your gear leg, there are many others with red faces
that have done the same thing. Just don't get it to slow if your not near
touching down. There seems to be a knack to landing Kolbs, I can't
describe it but it's there.
If you didn't bend it real bad, and it hasn't been bent and straighten
before you can straighten it on a hydraulic press. Most will straighten
them 3-5 times then replace them.
They didn't used to be too expensive. Some want to strengthens the gear
but then the cage may be over stressed and bend before the gear
legs. Better to bend a gear leg than the cage.
jerryb
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>
> I'm a new Kolb owner. I just bought a FireStar I with a 503, 5 rib
>wings and no seat in the back. I bought it in West Virginia and trailered
>it home. The plane was crashed in 1999 and rebuilt by Lite Speed
>Aviation. I checked with both Kolb and Lite Speed to see if a FireStar I
>loading was OK on a 5 rib wing with a 250 pound pilot, 10 gallons of fuel and
>a 503. That puts gross weight at just a bit over 700 pounds. They both
>said that it was OK, just never carry a passenger. I did a detailed weight
>and balance analysis and I'm in the middle of the envelope.
>
> I also stopped by Kolb's factory on the way home and the people there are
>really nice. I got a grand tour, Ray Brown looked over my plane and he
>answered all the questions I knew to ask. I recommend a visit if you're
>ever near New London, Kentucky.
>
> I have 350 hrs GA experience, 200 hrs in tail draggers- 30 years ago. I
>did a few landings with a friend in his Maxair Drifter (from the back seat)
>and then did about 5 "crow hops" before I pulled back on the stick and made
>first flight. The subsequent landings were OK, nothing to brag about.
>
> Saturday morning, I made a bad landing and bounced. Didn't think it was
>that hard, but I bent the right gear leg. I removed the leg and discovered
>it was only a 1.125 inch diameter FireStar I leg with a sleeve vs. a 1.250
>inch dia FireStar II leg. Gotta' buy new parts. Didn't expect to break
>anything major after only 3 hrs of flying.
>
> I've got tons of questions and will probably ask you guys for your
>opinions a lot, so please be patient.
>
> I'm in the Dallas/ Fort Worth area of Texas, fly out of Propwash (16SX)
>and am very fortunate to have some new friends here who are knowledgeable and
>willing to help me with all my dumb questions. But it will also be good to
>hear opinions from elsewhere.
>
> I added a picture of my new toy. It's at my house before I took it to
>the airport. I did a thorough inspection before I attempted to fly it.
>
>
>The Rookie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BustyBrooke(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | best adult site passwords 40201310865544333222222 |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
Dennis S., I don't know if you want or need to hear this, but having someone
with your knowledge is an unmeasuriable asset to the builders and flyers on
this Kolb list ! We are so blessed that you still take the time to read what
is going on and also give your time to respond to questions . On behalf of
all the Kolb List, THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH !!!
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
MK3 528PY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
In a message dated 4/18/02 7:03:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Airgriff2(at)aol.com writes:
> Dennis S., I don't know if you want or need to hear this, but having someone
>
> with your knowledge is an unmeasuriable asset to the builders and flyers on
>
> this Kolb list ! We are so blessed that you still take the time to read
> what
> is going on and also give your time to respond to questions . On behalf of
>
> all the Kolb List, THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH !!!
>
> Fly safe
> Bob Griffin
> MK3 528PY
>
I second the motion, ....completely!
George Randolph
firestar driver
Akron, O
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Alexander <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/16/02 |
Airgriff2(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Dennis S., I don't know if you want or need to hear this, but having someone
> with your knowledge is an unmeasuriable asset to the builders and flyers on
> this Kolb list ! We are so blessed that you still take the time to read what
> is going on and also give your time to respond to questions . On behalf of
> all the Kolb List, THANK YOU EVER SO MUCH !!!
>
> Fly safe
> Bob Griffin
> MK3 528PY
>
Kolbers:
I know this is probably preaching to the choir, but
listening to what Dennis had to say AND having the
opportunity (through another owner) to see, first hand, the
results of his actual work, as well as his gentlemanly way
of interacting with people, was certainly on the plus side
in my decision to become a Kolb owner/flyer.
As for having confidence in what Dennis has to offer.....
the old saying goes, if he says a mouse can pull a house,
hitch the mouse up! (... or something like that. The Grey
Baron probably knows the actual saying.)
Thanks Dennis for all of us.
George Alexander
Original Firestar
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Wing at 800 lb GW; & Alum H-section |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
---------- "Dennis Souder" writes:
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Wing at 800 lb GW; & Alum H-section
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:46:48 -0400
>Ken,
First, it is possible that TNK has re-evaluated the G-ratings of the Kolb
Aircraft and decided that TOK was a bit on the conservative side in
establishing the limit loading of the Kolb aircraft. I know Barnaby Wainfan was
associated with TOK for a while and he may have looked into this.
So when I say that you should really have 7 ribs, I am going by old Kolb's standard
of setting the number of ribs in proportion to the gross weight of
the aircraft>
Dennis
Thank you, I read every word too and I appreciate your comments to the list. Since
I am still flying one of your Originals, I take heed to your advice!
This is why it's still flying year round on a regular basis: It was designed right
the first time!
Thanks again,
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
15 years flying it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Hawk's Wing Failure |
Will Uribe wrote:
< I have seen video of John's original FireStar's leading edge give in
flight
when it was over stressed. >
Will - do you mean John Hauck's FireStar?
I remember Hawk telling the List his story of a wing failure in flight, and
deploying his hand-deployed chute, but I didn't know someone actually filmed
the incident!
John - That couldn't have been planned, was it?
Dennis Kirby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hawk's Wing Failure |
> John - That couldn't have been planned, was it?
>
> Dennis Kirby
Dennis/Gang:
At the time, did not know I was a "movie star". Also, could
not have cared less. Had more important things on my mind,
like survival.
That accident was the result of setting my own flight
envelope, not based on the parameters set by Homer Kolb and
Dennis Souder. I am a firm believer now, as of 13 March
1990 (I think that is the correct date). Have not done an
aerobatic maneuver since that date, unless one considers
spins, stalls, wingovers, and "old man" type maneuvers
aerobatic. I don't. In addition to 1,000's of aerobatic
maneuvers, my original Firestar was subjected to overloaded
conditions, extreme weather/turbulence. After 755 flight
hours of asking this little bird with 5 main rib wings to do
what it was not designed to do, it said NO!
I did not, and I don't believe anyone else, ever expects an
aircraft to have a catastrophic failure. When it happens,
it is too late to change the situation. Without a
parachute, bend over and kiss your behind good-bye.
The above incident educated me to the fact that I or my
Firestar was not invincible. Flown, as designed, I would
still be flying it.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
Mr. Souder,
Please contact me off list. I tried your " flykolb(at)epix.net " address and
it keeps coming back to me as undeliverable.
Ken Korenek
ken-foi(at)attbi.net
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar Review |
Which issue, Kenny?
BN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
I just received a sketch from Kolb by Ray Brown for Flaperons that are now
being using on the Mk III x-tra, has anyone built these yet?
Ken James
Drafting Design Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
3307 Freidensburg Rd.
Oley Pa. 19547
610-987-6201 Ext 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel line obstruction |
I have been busy on my Mk3/912 for the last week but will take a break to warn
any of you that using those right angle fuel tank fittings that go
through the rubber grommet/seal. This particular fitting was to be used in the
top of the tank but older models used them in the bottom of the tanks.
I always check fuel line components before installation. It really paid off this
time. The metal fitting at the top of the tank was totally blocked. I used a
piano wire probe to unblock the passage and made sure it was
clear and clean. The material that came out was non-magnetic, shades of brown colored
and ranged from dust to sand in particle size with numerous
"clumps".
My recommendation is that this item be checked during assembly and any time fuel
system work is done.
Duane the plane in Tallahassee, FL FireFly SN 007, 447 / Mk3/912 in workshop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Richmond <twoschmoops(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey all,
I'm rebuilding my Mk III and am through the basic white painting
process. Unfortunately I've lost my painting facility so cannot finish
the color trim coat(s).
Anybody have an idea of an airport facility where I can
=====
John & Lynn Richmond :-)
Palm Coast, Fl.
Mk3 582, 41 hrs
http://games.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenny Broste" <kenandmona(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Firestar Review |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenny Broste" <kenandmona(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Firestar Review
> That would be great. If you could mail it to me at:
> Ken Broste
> 12410 West Mile Wide Road
> Tucson, AZ 85734
> I'd be forever grateful. I could send you a SASE if you'd like. I'm
> building a firestar II. I've got all the surfaces covered and getting
ready
> to do the spraying, poly brush, poly spray and then poly tone. I learned
a
> lot being on this list. It's going to be interesting to see what comes
out
> in the end with the sport pilot certification. I'm one of those who had
my
> private license and then was unable to continue flying because of the
> medical thing. So I thing it will be a good thing overall. I went from a
> Quicksilver to a Cessna and now back to a Kolb ultralight.
>
> Many thanks again
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 6:18 AM
> Subject: Firestar Review
>
>
> > Ken -
> > If you still need it, I have a copy of the flight review from
"Ultralight
> > Flying" that you refer to. I can copy & mail, or fax it. Lemme know
...
> > Dennis Kirby
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seeking shelter |
I have painted cars outside and in professional spray booths. I have
found my best dirt free jobs were done outside. Doing your trim outside
should be no big problem
>
>Hey all,
>
>I'm rebuilding my Mk III and am through the basic white painting
>process. Unfortunately I've lost my painting facility so cannot finish
>the color trim coat(s).
>
>Anybody have an idea of an airport facility where I can
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hans van Alphen" <HVA(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 04/19/02 |
>From: Woody <duesouth(at)iname.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: seeking shelter
>
>
> I have painted cars outside and in professional spray booths. I have
>found my best dirt free jobs were done outside. Doing your trim outside
>should be no big problem
>
>
-------------------------
Hey John,
Have done all the painting of my Mark III Xtra in the wonderfull Florida
outdoors without any problems or fumes, try it.
Hans van Alphen
Mark III Xtra
BMW powered
36 hours
>>
>>Hey all,
>>
>>I'm rebuilding my Mk III and am through the basic white painting
>>process. Unfortunately I've lost my painting facility so cannot finish
>>the color trim coat(s).
>>
>>Anybody have an idea of an airport facility where I can
snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Giacometto" <brittani(at)rangeweb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: c.g. calculation |
Kip,Yes it is a negative figure, It's just that I don't like the idea of it
being that far aft. Was just double checking myself, seeing if somebody
could find a mistake in my computations, security sake I quess.
Thanks, Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: dama <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: c.g. calculation
> Questions...
> 1. Is the pilot station not a negative #?
> 2. Aren't you OK as the limit is 35%MAC?
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: c.g. calculation |
Tom Giacometto wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Just putting the firestar through the c.g. cal. this morning, not to
> happy with my findings, first of all I bought the plane second hand, the
> fellow that I bought it from did the c.g. cal., his look just fine, but
> my c.g. cal. don't even compare. Just looking for a second opinions. My
> weights & measurements are as follows:
>
> 1996 Firestar II 503dcdi
>
> L.M. 199#
> R.M. 200#
> T.W. 65.5#
> Full fuel no pilot
> 9 degrees angle of attack
>
> Datum to Main Gear 7.5"
> Datum to Tail Wheel 196.25"
> "P" Pilot to datum 7.25"
> pilot 185#
>
> I come up with a c.g. of 22.33" or 34.89% aft.???
Mine is
Left main: 167# @7.0
Right Main 161# @7.0
Tail Wheel 63 # @ 190
Pilot 260 # @ -10 (260# = Pilot, big lunch, radio, GPS,
helmet, etc.)
fuel 60 # @ 34
I added the fuel and the moment in the calculations because that is a value
that changes constantly.
That gives me a 30.12 % full fuel and a gross weight of 711 pounds and 28.0 %
empty.
The pilot is a negative number- you have it positive. That will make a
difference.
Did you calibrate your scale with a known weight and add or subtract that
difference in your readings?
Did you take the readings 2 or 3 times for accuracy?
Did you block up the opposite wheel and tailwheel to a height equal to the
scale you used?
These are minor details that do make a difference.
--
*********************
Ken W. Korenek
Custom Utilities, LLC
www.customutilitiesllc.com
Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
PO Box 173685
Arlington, Texas
76003-3685
817-572-6832 voice
817-572-6842 fax
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Giacometto" <brittani(at)rangeweb.net> |
| Subject: | Re: c.g. calculation |
Ken, I used three digital scales, one under each wheel, raised the
tailwheel off ground until wing was at 9 degrees angle of attack, per plans.
Yes, calibrated scales with known weights, scales very accurate, took
multiple, multiple readings, I just neglected to put the pilot as a negative
reading in my earlier post, but I computed it in my c.g. calculations as a
negative number. Just for the hell of it I computed your c.g. with the
following numbers that you posted, and came up with the same %c.g. you did,
so I'm almost positive I've computed mine right, I realize that my firestar
II is within the kolb c.g. limits for this particular aircraft, but I would
still like to know how many firestars are flying with the c.g. this far, or
near this far aft. I'm using the 35% figure as max aft c.g. or should it be
37%?
Thanks, Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: c.g. calculation
>
> Tom Giacometto wrote:
>
> up with a c.g. of 22.33" or 34.89% aft.???
>
> Mine is
>
> Left main: 167# @7.0
> Right Main 161# @7.0
> Tail Wheel 63 # @ 190
> Pilot 260 # @ -10 (260# = Pilot, big lunch, radio, GPS,
> helmet, etc.)
> fuel 60 # @ 34
>
> I added the fuel and the moment in the calculations because that is a
value
> that changes constantly.
> That gives me a 30.12 % full fuel and a gross weight of 711 pounds and
28.0 %
> empty.
>
> The pilot is a negative number- you have it positive. That will make a
> difference.
>
> Did you calibrate your scale with a known weight and add or subtract that
> difference in your readings?
> Did you take the readings 2 or 3 times for accuracy?
> Did you block up the opposite wheel and tailwheel to a height equal to the
> scale you used?
>
> These are minor details that do make a difference.
> --
> *********************
> Ken W. Korenek
>
> Custom Utilities, LLC
> www.customutilitiesllc.com
> Sales(at)CustomUtilitiesLLC.com
>
> PO Box 173685
> Arlington, Texas
> 76003-3685
>
> 817-572-6832 voice
> 817-572-6842 fax
> 817-657-6500 cell
> 817-483-8054 home
March 25, 2002 - April 20, 2002
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-dn