Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-du

August 23, 2002 - September 07, 2002



________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
Subject: Re: de carbon
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Thanks for this input Jack. I don't think there is a perfect solution for the 2-stroke problem except to get a 4-stroke. Mine seems to be going strong for now. I will keep all of you updated if I run into a problem. What brand of synthetic oil were you using again? Was it 50:1 or 100:1 mix? Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it Ron & Gang, This has been and interesting thread. On this one, I believe it is best to follow the engine manufacturer's recommendation. I didn't and I wish I had. I was using a synthetic oil and believed what I had seen on the list that de-carb was not necessary. I pulled my engine over by hand before every flight and I was continually amazed at compression seemed to be increasing with the hours on the engine. I looked in the exhaust port and could see some coating on the head of the piston, but there was plenty of oil on the piston and one could push on the rings with a wood swab stick and see that they moved. At 57 hours plus the rear piston seized while climbing out after a take off. After removing the pistons, I discovered the rings were not stuck in the slots. They could revolve a little and move side to side a little as one would expect that they should. The culprit was carbon or other burned oil deposits that built up under the rings. It also explains why the compression was always good. The problem was that it got too good. The engine was running hard in the climb and the upper ring pressed the cylinder wall with more than normal force because the ring could not compress and move back into the slot in the piston. This generated more heat and softened the head of the piston, aluminum scuffed off and the piston seized. I guess the point I wish to make is that your rings may not be stuck, but you cannot see what is behind the piston ring, and this is the deposit build up that will bring you down. The only way to find out if a carbon deposit is there or not is to remove the rings and look. If you look at 50 and 100 hours and you find no build up then you may have the right combination of luck, fuel, oil and what ever other additive that keep deposit build up from under the rings, and extend your de-carb cycle time. In my case not following the manufacturer's recommendation, cost me about $500 and a month of flying. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Escaped Disaster
> Something to check , during these hot days of late . > Maybe an oversite on my part , maybe NOT . > Hope this helps save someone else . > Attached is a copy of an e-mail sent to customersupport@tnkolbaircraft . > > JJP JJP/Gang: Can not send attachments through the Kolb List. However, you can cut and paste it into the body of the email, or you can scan it and send it to the photo gallery, address link below. If you can't do the above, send it to me and I will post it on my index page so all can see. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Williamson" <jawmson(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: EIS wiring
Date: Aug 23, 2002
Those three wires are the remote keyswith control wires. They allow you to operate the front panel switches remotely using any normally open momentary switch mounted in a location convenient for your aircraft. Oragne wire: "Next/Ack" Green wire: "Previous" Blue wire: "Display" I can send you a copy of the manual page if needed. John Williamson Arlington, TX N49KK, Kolb Kolbra, Jabiru 2200 http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: stuck rings
How do you know - well sometimes your will start getting different CHT & EGT temps. A sign something is going on. We usually check ours about every 25-50 hours taking a compression test and recording the values followed by dropping the exhaust manifold and take a peek at the rings. We also take a small long blade screwdriver and try to move each ring. They should move a little, major resistance shows there is carbon buildup in the grooves. While were there we look for funny vertical scrap marks on the pistons indicating a seizure has occurred some time. jerryb > > >In a message dated 8/23/02 2:51:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > > I flew 11 years having to take my engine apart every 150 hours due to ring > > sticking > >I was wondering how rotax owners, who find rings that stick, notice that they >had a problem. Is it something you find visually during annual inspection, >or when it happens, does it show up immediately as a loss of rpm, or >roughness in running? How do you know when the rings stick? > >Bob G >Albany NY > >Bob, > >There is no warning if a ring sticks. The engine will run fine on one >ring. In my case, I ran it for a long time without checking anything as I >was new to this. Finally one winter day, I was flying along over the >frozen lake (luckily) and the rpms dropped off quickly and the EGT went >beyond 1300F. The engine quit in the air after that and I glided to a safe >landing on the lake. I tried all afternoon to get it started, but could >not. Spent the night out there in -5F conditions. > >After taking the cylinders off (at home), I found the bottom ring on the >rear cylinder stuck. I had the engine overhauled by a 2-stroke mechanic >and flew another 250 hours on that 377 until I got a good deal on my 447 >that I fly with to this day. > >When I got the 447, I heard about Klotz synthetic oil and Seafoam. I >inspect the rings on an annual basis and do the treatments. Hopefully, I >won't have to spend another night on a frozen lake. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original Firestar >15 years flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
Subject: Re: Elevator Stops
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Yes thats the only way I can think of doing it. You will have to drill out two rivets on each side,, one behined the other and then rivet back the tab. you can then trim the tab to proper size. I would use something like .060 instead of the .032--it seems too flimsy to me. Ron 8/23/01 12:37Chris Sudlow > If the stops are attached I believe they are rivited tabs through the ring > that contact the elevator mechanism - tabs are placed on the inside of the > ring & rivited in place. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
From: Jimmy <jhankin(at)planters.net>
Subject: Koltz oil
Hi gang, On the subject of oil for our ultralights, Koltz in particular, what is the type of synthetic being used. Is there a different one for our Rotax? This Kolb site should be named The Learning Site. Jimmy Hankinson 912-863-7384 Rocky Ford, Ga. 30455 jhankin(at)planters.net Kolb Firefly/447/200hrs Local field, Pegasus/2000/Grass Airport JYL/Sylvania, Ga. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 23, 2002
It's a good thing my FS II is not computer controlled . It's not my ( forte' ) . I've been trying to send a copy of that letter for ??????????? a long time to say the least . I'll try e-mail , direct from the scanner . If that doesn't work , I'll re-type in the a.m. JJP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
Subject: Re: Koltz oil
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
I was at Wallmart today. I saw 100% 2 cycle syn oil I think it was penzoil. a gallon was listing for 18.95. This is the one I used in my 2 cycle Yamaha. It smokes little run's smooth. Once I have an engine on my M3E this is what I would buy. Ron 8/23/02 18:33Jimmy > On the subject of oil for our ultralights, Koltz in particular, what is > the type of synthetic being used. Is there a different one for our > Rotax? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Boyd or anyone, I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to 25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it likely to work better than the rubber ducky? John Jung Firestar II N6163J Upper Michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Koltz oil
I have contacted Klotz two or three times about this. Each time they have recommended their Ski Craft oil. I questioned them on this as a Jet Ski is a water cooled engine while my 503 is air cooled. Each time they have assured me that the Ski Craft oil is the proper oil. If you get any other opinions, please let us know. Ron Payne -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, August 23, 2002 08:36:13 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Koltz oil Hi gang, On the subject of oil for our ultralights, Koltz in particular, what is the type of synthetic being used. Is there a different one for our Rotax? This Kolb site should be named The Learning Site. Jimmy Hankinson 912-863-7384 Rocky Ford, Ga. 30455 jhankin(at)planters.net Kolb Firefly/447/200hrs Local field, Pegasus/2000/Grass Airport JYL/Sylvania, Ga. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 24, 2002
I guess it's the old fashion way , one letter at a time . My appologies to all. The problem / e-mail , that I sent to Linda @ customersupport TNK , went like so ; Linda/TNK, You might want to mention this to the OWNERS . Maybe a design change is warranted . While practicing take-off and landings w/ FS II on floats ,this past weekend , minutes after landing , during take-off , at lift-off speed , the top tail bracing NUT , on the verticle stablizer bolt ( AN3 14A ) came off , allowing the horizontal stablizers to drop , simular to an F-4 fantom , rendering the elevators useless . We ( Charles an old friend and videographer ) was taping at the time clearly what and how , this happened . Fortunately this happened AFTER landing . Especially considering the facts that two minutes prior , at 800 ft and the chute was disarmed . I realize that this might be an isolated incidence , but I've obpted to covert ALL tail bracing bolts/nuts , to castle nuts and saftey clips . That nut and bolt assembly has been in place for approx three years and always trailered . It was very hot that day ( 90's ), maybe the heat and vibration ,caused the nyloc nut to fail , hence , castle nut ( s ) and clip ( s ) . Thanks for your time Photo : FS II on floats S.E. Ma. ToGunPI(at)att.net John J. Peters ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Very good post John. I had already replaced the lower wing nut with a castle nut and cotter pin. I now will replace all tail wire nyloc nuts with castle nuts. Thanks for the post Ron Payne -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Saturday, August 24, 2002 08:35:50 AM Subject: Kolb-List: escaped disaster I guess it's the old fashion way , one letter at a time . My appologies to all. The problem / e-mail , that I sent to Linda @ customersupport TNK , went like so ; Linda/TNK, You might want to mention this to the OWNERS . Maybe a design change is warranted . While practicing take-off and landings w/ FS II on floats ,this past weekend , minutes after landing , during take-off , at lift-off speed , _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: finishing tapemessage of Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:50:00
> Terr, Jim and Dondi will tell you....."hard under soft, tape it." > Mike in WV Mike/Guys: Jim and Dondi are always available to help us out when we get in trouble with our covering and painting. Their toll free number is: CALL TOLL FREE 1-877-877-3334 Their web site is: http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ Reference taping the tail section: The tail section takes a terrible beating over the hours. Not only do parts of the engine and airframe find their way to the tail section, but tons of garbage from the engine exhaust (all that diamond hard carbon from inside), sand, dust, dirt, rocks off the tires, and just the junk that we don't see that is in our atmosphere. If you get to London, KY, next month for the Kolb Flyin, take a look at the leading edges of the vertical and horizontal stabilizers on my Mark III. It is easy to see that Mother Earth and Rotax 912 exhaust have taken its toll on the leading edges and surfaces of its tail section. The red Aerothane paint is almost worn through to the yellow. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Subject: Re: Koltz oil
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Ron and others, I have been using Klotz KL-216 which is the gallon-sized synthetic snowmobile oil. I'm not sure about the other synthetics. Did you explain to the dealer that your engine is most similar to a snowmobile engine? My understanding is their oils are the same except for the flashpoint, so the watercraft oil may be fine. I would go with the same stuff that I use. If you can find a dealer close by, it runs about $17/gallon, otherwise shipped to your door it's about $130 for 4 gallons. The price difference between minerals and synthetics will easily be made up in maintenance costs, so there is really no price difference. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it > > I have contacted Klotz two or three times about this. Each time they > have recommended their Ski Craft oil. I questioned them on this as a Jet > Ski is a water cooled engine while my 503 is air cooled. Each time they have > assured me that the Ski Craft oil is the proper oil. If you get any other > opinions, > please let us know. > > Ron Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Subject: Re: Koltz oil
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
One more thing about Klotz synthetic is that it does not smoke. If there is smoke out the exhaust, that is an indication the oil has more carbon and/or ash in it to build on the inside of your engine. All minerals and some synthetics oils smoke. Engines live a healthier life if they are nonsmokers. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > I was at Wallmart today. I saw 100% 2 cycle syn oil I think it was > penzoil. > a gallon was listing for 18.95. This is the one I used in my 2 cycle > Yamaha. > It smokes little run's smooth. Once I have an engine on my M3E this > is what > I would buy. > > Ron > > > 8/23/02 18:33Jimmy > > > On the subject of oil for our ultralights, Koltz in particular, > what is > > the type of synthetic being used. Is there a different one for > our > > Rotax? > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
> While practicing take-off and landings w/ FS II on floats ,this > past weekend , minutes > after landing , during take-off , at lift-off speed , > the top tail bracing NUT , on the verticle stablizer bolt ( AN3 > 14A ) > came off , allowing the horizontal stablizers to drop , simular to an > F-4 fantom , rendering > the elevators useless . John J. Peters John J/Gang: Glad your episode ended without disastor. First time I have heard of someone losing a nyloc nut on a Kolb or any other aircraft. After the failure, did the bolt remain in the tang? Were you able to recover it? Were the threads on the bolt in good shape? If you did not recover the bolt, how did you determine the nyloc nut backed off? Seems more probable that the bolt would break before the nut backed off. Not doubting your word, but trying to find out what really happened. Ron Payne has already decided to change out all his hardware because of your message. Likely, others will also. I haven't looked at the reg, but I doubt there is a time requirement for replacement of nyloc nuts. Mine have been on the tail section for much longer than three years, as in your case. There are nylocs employed all over the airframe on our aircraft. Think we ought to change them all out? Not me. Not unless they have been removed and replaced a couple times. As a rule of thumb I see how far I can screw the nut onto the bolt. If I can get a thread to show, I chunk it and put on a new one. It is very easy to overpower the nyloc on a 3/16 nyloc nut once it has been tightened down and removed. Best rule of thumb for a 3/16 nyloc nut might be to use it once, remove and toss it, then replace with a new one. I feel comfortable with the sytem I use for tail wires. I use nyloc nuts. The closest I came to losing one was in Alaska in 1994, when I tried to land on a grass strip that turned out to be Alaskan Bush. Had the 3/16 bottom wire bolt installed from right to left. As the tailwires were drug through the bushes, the 3/16 nyloc nut was being unscrewed from the bolt. When I finally got the airplane on the ground, I discovered what had happened. Only a couple threads holding it on. To remedy the above, I install the bottom bolt from left to right. Now when I get into a situation where I am in tall weeds, brush, bushes, etc, the action of the vegetation working on the nut will tend to tighten rather than loosen. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Ron, Thanks for the understanding , I hope this helps save future problems with ALL > JJP ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron or Mary <ronormar(at)apex.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > Very good post John. I had already replaced the lower wing nut with a castle > nut and cotter pin. I now will replace all tail wire nyloc nuts with castle > nuts. Thanks for the post > > Ron Payne > > -------Original Message------- > > From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 24, 2002 08:35:50 AM > To: Kolb List > Subject: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > > I guess it's the old fashion way , one letter at a time . My > appologies to all. > The problem / e-mail , that I sent to Linda @ customersupport > TNK , went like so ; > > Linda/TNK, > You might want to mention this to the OWNERS . Maybe a design change > is warranted . > While practicing take-off and landings w/ FS II on floats ,this > past weekend , minutes > after landing , during take-off , at lift-off speed , > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 24, 2002
John H Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are fine . Excellant question, you are exactly right , the nut could have split and been pulled off , although there are no signs of that on the threads . And yes I was able to control the plane , as the rudder is intact , but the horizontal stabilizers didn't fare so well . The tube to fold and clip the wings punctured the stablizers as they were simulating an F-4 fantom . That I can deal with !!!!! JJP ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > > > While practicing take-off and landings w/ FS II on floats ,this > > past weekend , minutes > > after landing , during take-off , at lift-off speed , > > the top tail bracing NUT , on the verticle stablizer bolt ( AN3 > > 14A ) > > came off , allowing the horizontal stablizers to drop , simular to an > > F-4 fantom , rendering > > the elevators useless . > John J. Peters > > John J/Gang: > > Glad your episode ended without disastor. > > First time I have heard of someone losing a nyloc nut on a > Kolb or any other aircraft. > > After the failure, did the bolt remain in the tang? Were > you able to recover it? Were the threads on the bolt in > good shape? > > If you did not recover the bolt, how did you determine the > nyloc nut backed off? Seems more probable that the bolt > would break before the nut backed off. > > Not doubting your word, but trying to find out what really > happened. > > Ron Payne has already decided to change out all his hardware > because of your message. Likely, others will also. > > I haven't looked at the reg, but I doubt there is a time > requirement for replacement of nyloc nuts. Mine have been > on the tail section for much longer than three years, as in > your case. There are nylocs employed all over the airframe > on our aircraft. Think we ought to change them all out? > Not me. Not unless they have been removed and replaced a > couple times. As a rule of thumb I see how far I can screw > the nut onto the bolt. If I can get a thread to show, I > chunk it and put on a new one. It is very easy to overpower > the nyloc on a 3/16 nyloc nut once it has been tightened > down and removed. Best rule of thumb for a 3/16 nyloc nut > might be to use it once, remove and toss it, then replace > with a new one. > > I feel comfortable with the sytem I use for tail wires. I > use nyloc nuts. The closest I came to losing one was in > Alaska in 1994, when I tried to land on a grass strip that > turned out to be Alaskan Bush. Had the 3/16 bottom wire > bolt installed from right to left. As the tailwires were > drug through the bushes, the 3/16 nyloc nut was being > unscrewed from the bolt. When I finally got the airplane on > the ground, I discovered what had happened. Only a couple > threads holding it on. > > To remedy the above, I install the bottom bolt from left to > right. Now when I get into a situation where I am in tall > weeds, brush, bushes, etc, the action of the vegetation > working on the nut will tend to tighten rather than loosen. > > Take care, > > john h > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
> Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are fine . JJP John J/Gang: OK. Looks like the nyloc nut came off about the time you got ready to take off again. Possibility that this particular nyloc nut was unsat from the hardware manufacturer. May have been unsuspectingly installed without the installer realizing that the nut was no good. The factory boys do not look at every one of them. In fact, I'd bet very very few of them get looked at. I have found all types of hardware, AN type, that were not acceptable for service. Particularly AN bolts. Some with not enough metal to stamp the hex head. Come out with a round brad type head. Also got one without threads. Made a nice pin. When something happens to an airplane because of a material failure we want to point the finger at the guy who made the material. Or in this case the guy that designed the system for the tail wires. In my opinion, based on a lot of years and hours flying in front of this same type tail wire set, the designer's qualifications, and years and hours others have put on this system, that the system is good, sound, and perfectly safe. Now comes the good part. This, of course, is my own personal opinion, for what it is worth, which probably isn't much. But it is enough for me to continue flying with my tail wires attached with 3/16 bolts and nyloc nuts. In fact, I only landed a few minutes ago, after an hour and a half flight, in my Mark III with the same configuration. I do not believe that that nut decided to come off on that particular flight, whether it was 10 minutes or 10 hours. I think it has been working on the nut for sometime. The pilot in command of the aircraft may not have done a thorough preflight, to include actually looking at each nut on each of the four positions on the tail wires. If they had been religiously inspected each pre flight, the loosening nut would have been picked up. I don't always look at each of the four nuts in question, but the ones I don't look at are the ones that I feel with my finger to insure that I have some threads protruding through the nut. It is easy to visually inspect the top and bottom nut, especially the top nut. Have to bend down a ways to visually inspect the two on the bottom side of the horizontal stabilizers. So if I can't see it, I can feel it. It is easy to get complacent in preflighting the same aircraft day after day. Especially items that we "know" ain't gonna come off while we are busy having fun cheating gravity. Beware, Murphy never rests nor sleeps. He is always ready to bite you in the ass. Take care, john h PS: Got 1.5 hrs in the heat. Gonna wait til late this evening and burn some more MOGAS. Too hot to play now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: VN Wanna Be
Date: Aug 24, 2002
. It was a very different era, best music and legacy. > Ron Yes it was the best and worst of times. Loved it and hated it....regards...Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 24, 2002
John H , You are exactly right about the pre-flight on this particular day only , because I don't remember looking at that particular bolt & nut with any scrutiny , However my friend Charles ( who is an ex helicopter mechanic / pilot ) , says he remembers going over that entire tail assembly , the very last time out , which was a testing phase of this whole set - up. As for the original installation , it was done by yours truely , and being a machinist / tool & die maker for some 40 years , I assure you I'm more than qualified , for some of these tasks . The fact remains that , pre-flighted or not , on that day , SOMETHING caused this to happen . That is all that was being conveyed in that e-mail . Homer did a great job, but he has no ability to change physics . If you can fry an egg on a piece of metal heated by the sun , there may well be enough heat to partially melt / soften nylon .Enough said !!! JJP ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > > > Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are fine . > JJP > > John J/Gang: > > OK. Looks like the nyloc nut came off about the time you > got ready to take off again. > > Possibility that this particular nyloc nut was unsat from > the hardware manufacturer. May have been unsuspectingly > installed without the installer realizing that the nut was > no good. The factory boys do not look at every one of > them. In fact, I'd bet very very few of them get looked > at. I have found all types of hardware, AN type, that were > not acceptable for service. Particularly AN bolts. Some > with not enough metal to stamp the hex head. Come out with > a round brad type head. Also got one without threads. Made > a nice pin. > > When something happens to an airplane because of a material > failure we want to point the finger at the guy who made the > material. Or in this case the guy that designed the system > for the tail wires. In my opinion, based on a lot of years > and hours flying in front of this same type tail wire set, > the designer's qualifications, and years and hours others > have put on this system, that the system is good, sound, and > perfectly safe. > > Now comes the good part. This, of course, is my own > personal opinion, for what it is worth, which probably isn't > much. But it is enough for me to continue flying with my > tail wires attached with 3/16 bolts and nyloc nuts. In > fact, I only landed a few minutes ago, after an hour and a > half flight, in my Mark III with the same configuration. I > do not believe that that nut decided to come off on that > particular flight, whether it was 10 minutes or 10 hours. I > think it has been working on the nut for sometime. The > pilot in command of the aircraft may not have done a > thorough preflight, to include actually looking at each nut > on each of the four positions on the tail wires. If they > had been religiously inspected each pre flight, the > loosening nut would have been picked up. > > I don't always look at each of the four nuts in question, > but the ones I don't look at are the ones that I feel with > my finger to insure that I have some threads protruding > through the nut. It is easy to visually inspect the top and > bottom nut, especially the top nut. Have to bend down a > ways to visually inspect the two on the bottom side of the > horizontal stabilizers. So if I can't see it, I can feel > it. > > It is easy to get complacent in preflighting the same > aircraft day after day. Especially items that we "know" > ain't gonna come off while we are busy having fun cheating > gravity. Beware, Murphy never rests nor sleeps. He is > always ready to bite you in the ass. > > Take care, > > john h > > PS: Got 1.5 hrs in the heat. Gonna wait til late this > evening and burn some more MOGAS. Too hot to play now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Date: Aug 24, 2002
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Jung" <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com> > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Cheep Dipole Antenna question > > > > > > Boyd or anyone, > > > > I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to > > 25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it > > likely to work better than the rubber ducky? > > > > John Jung > > Firestar II N6163J > > Upper Michigan John, From the limited info above I would say that its a final amplifier burner upper device and not a dipole at all. Richard Pikes antenna is a 1/4 wave vertical and an excellent choice in my opinion. I would have mounted it on top so as to not have to bend it and distort the radiation pattern. But it still works well I'm sure. Simple, cheap and very effective. Snuffy....WB8ZMY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2002
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Preflight Inspection
Gentlemen, After I torque or just tighten a nut, I put a glob of "Torque Seal" across the thread-nut interface, or the head-structural interface or the nut-washer-structural interface, whichever is proper for that fastened joint. This brightly colored stuff dries to a very brittle substance that will break off if the nut or bolt starts to come loose. Vibration doesn't seem to effect it. Neither does rotation of the propeller on the prop bolts. During preflight, as I'm walking around, all I have to do is look for the brightly colored "glob" on each bolt and I know that it is still at the torque that I last left it. If the glob ain't there, it's a'commin' loose and needs attention. This helps me perform a detailed inspection without having to wrench each nut to see if it's tight. I use it on my PPC and my Kolb with great results. I recommend it to everyone. Torque Seal Inspection Lacer P/N F-900, 1/2 oz squeeze tube Organic Products Company PO Box 170428 Irving, Texas 75017 972-438-7321 e-mail: ink(at)opco.com This stuff comes in several colors. Call or e-mail for a free sample. You can also get the same tube from Aircraft Spruce for about $3. The 1/2 oz tube is enough do every joint on a Kolb at least twice. I've tried several colors, but the orange (which dries red) and the yellow provide the best visibility for me. The blue dries too light and isn't easy enough to see. They do tend to dry to a different shade, so you may have to try a few colors to get one you like. Give it a try. Anything to help perform a better preflight provides for greater safety. ********************* Ken W. Korenek ken-foi(at)attbi.com Kolb FireStar II, "My Mistress" Rotax 503, Oil Injected 3 Blade Powerfin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image003.jpg Six Chuter SR7-XL "Elmo" Powered Parachute Rotax 582, Oil Injected 3 Blade PowerFin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image005.jpg 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Nuts !
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Gang, I just realized we Ultrastar drivers have an advantage with our propellar ground clearance.....our aerial weed whackers eliminate any weeds that may cause the nut on the lower tail brace wire connection from loosening........I could have used that as a selling point when I sold mine yesterday.......but now I have to rebuild the one in the hangar rafters....It's gonna start getting cold anyway... .Hey, BB, how long before I can expect a visit ? Ed in Western NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Cowan" <tcowan1917(at)direcway.com>
Subject: nylocs
Date: Aug 25, 2002
just a comment. at this point I am glad I have the 'old firestar' cause we have a bold running through the split elevator. always envied the no bolt fold ups but guess they have an achies heal. I treat both the bracing wire and the elevator bolt the same, nyloc WITH A SAFETY PIN. Here is a question for all you engineer types: when you are flying, is there 'up' pressure on the horizontal fins or 'down' pressure. example, would they fold up in flight or fall down? sounds silly but got into a discussion about it and when we were finished, it sounded right both ways. not telling you which way I voted. (the right way) ted cowan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Kirk and Chris and Group, Thanks for the tip about Richards antenna. I don't remember seeing his before. Actually, I was referring to Boyd Young's "cheep dipole antenna", at: http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html Any comments on the safety of using Boyd's antenna without an antenna meter? Or should I use Richard's design instead? John Jung > >Boyd or anyone, > >I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to >25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it >likely to work better than the rubber ducky? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "vincenicely" <vincenicely(at)chartertn.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Hi Gang, > > Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are fine . > JJP When my Firestar II was inspected by the DAR many years ago, he objected to the selection of bolt/lock nut in several places on the plane. The reason is the section of: AC 4313-1B/AC43.13-2A Combined (Acceptable Methods and Techniques, and Practices, Aircraft Inspection and Repair) listed under paragraph7-64-A DO NOT use self-locking nuts on parts subject to rotation. The DAR's interpretation was that places where tang's (as well as a few other places in my Firestar) were located were subject to rotation and were included in the above limitation. He found it acceptable for me to drill the AN bolt and add a pin or to replace with regular drilled bolt and castellated nut. Vince Nicely ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > > > Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are fine . > JJP > > John J/Gang: > > OK. Looks like the nyloc nut came off about the time you > got ready to take off again. > > Possibility that this particular nyloc nut was unsat from > the hardware manufacturer. May have been unsuspectingly > installed without the installer realizing that the nut was > no good. The factory boys do not look at every one of > them. In fact, I'd bet very very few of them get looked > at. I have found all types of hardware, AN type, that were > not acceptable for service. Particularly AN bolts. Some > with not enough metal to stamp the hex head. Come out with > a round brad type head. Also got one without threads. Made > a nice pin. > > When something happens to an airplane because of a material > failure we want to point the finger at the guy who made the > material. Or in this case the guy that designed the system > for the tail wires. In my opinion, based on a lot of years > and hours flying in front of this same type tail wire set, > the designer's qualifications, and years and hours others > have put on this system, that the system is good, sound, and > perfectly safe. > > Now comes the good part. This, of course, is my own > personal opinion, for what it is worth, which probably isn't > much. But it is enough for me to continue flying with my > tail wires attached with 3/16 bolts and nyloc nuts. In > fact, I only landed a few minutes ago, after an hour and a > half flight, in my Mark III with the same configuration. I > do not believe that that nut decided to come off on that > particular flight, whether it was 10 minutes or 10 hours. I > think it has been working on the nut for sometime. The > pilot in command of the aircraft may not have done a > thorough preflight, to include actually looking at each nut > on each of the four positions on the tail wires. If they > had been religiously inspected each pre flight, the > loosening nut would have been picked up. > > I don't always look at each of the four nuts in question, > but the ones I don't look at are the ones that I feel with > my finger to insure that I have some threads protruding > through the nut. It is easy to visually inspect the top and > bottom nut, especially the top nut. Have to bend down a > ways to visually inspect the two on the bottom side of the > horizontal stabilizers. So if I can't see it, I can feel > it. > > It is easy to get complacent in preflighting the same > aircraft day after day. Especially items that we "know" > ain't gonna come off while we are busy having fun cheating > gravity. Beware, Murphy never rests nor sleeps. He is > always ready to bite you in the ass. > > Take care, > > john h > > PS: Got 1.5 hrs in the heat. Gonna wait til late this > evening and burn some more MOGAS. Too hot to play now. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 24, 2002
Me too ! ! ! Thanks ! ! ! Safer Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > Very good post John. I had already replaced the lower wing nut with a castle > nut and cotter pin. I now will replace all tail wire nyloc nuts with castle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Date: Aug 24, 2002
I did a huge amount of research on this, and I can assure you............Boyd Young's antenna IS a true dipole, it does NOT fry finals, and when testing mine I nearly got in trouble for interfering with the local Approach's instructions to an incoming aircraft...........and I was using a little handheld, INside a mobile home, with the antenna taped to the inside of the window. I learned..........when Boyd speaks, I listen. He knows his stuff. Appreciative Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cheep Dipole Antenna question > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Jung" <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com> > > To: > > Subject: Kolb-List: Cheep Dipole Antenna question > > > > > > > > > > Boyd or anyone, > > > > > > I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to > > > 25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it > > > likely to work better than the rubber ducky? > > > > > > John Jung > > > Firestar II N6163J > > > Upper Michigan > > John, > From the limited info above I would say that its a final amplifier burner > upper device and not a dipole at all. Richard Pikes antenna is a 1/4 wave > vertical and an excellent choice in my opinion. I would have mounted it on > top so as to not have to bend it and distort the radiation pattern. But it > still works well I'm sure. Simple, cheap and very effective. > Snuffy....WB8ZMY > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Date: Aug 24, 2002
I built one, and Erich Weaver built one, to Boyd's instructions, and used the meter. Seems to me, the formula will give you a length of just under 25", using 123.00 for a frequency. Using the meter, it will have you cut it down to about 23" for best SWR. Erich ????? Boyd ????? Is my memory accurate ?? Lar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Cheep Dipole Antenna question > > Boyd or anyone, > > I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to > 25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it > likely to work better than the rubber ducky? > > John Jung > Firestar II N6163J > Upper Michigan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Vince , WELL / NICELY said . I hope that post is archived . JJP ----- Original Message ----- From: vincenicely <vincenicely(at)chartertn.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > Hi Gang, > > > > Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are > fine . > > JJP > > > When my Firestar II was inspected by the DAR many years ago, he objected to > the selection of bolt/lock nut in several places on the plane. The reason is > the section of: > > AC 4313-1B/AC43.13-2A Combined (Acceptable Methods and Techniques, and > Practices, Aircraft Inspection and Repair) listed under paragraph7-64-A DO > NOT use self-locking nuts on parts subject to rotation. > > The DAR's interpretation was that places where tang's (as well as a few > other places in my Firestar) were located were subject to rotation and were > included in the above limitation. He found it acceptable for me to drill > the AN bolt and add a pin or to replace with regular drilled bolt and > castellated nut. > > Vince Nicely > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster > > > > > > > > > Thanks , and yes the bolt stayed on the tang and the threads are > fine . > > JJP > > > > John J/Gang: > > > > OK. Looks like the nyloc nut came off about the time you > > got ready to take off again. > > > > Possibility that this particular nyloc nut was unsat from > > the hardware manufacturer. May have been unsuspectingly > > installed without the installer realizing that the nut was > > no good. The factory boys do not look at every one of > > them. In fact, I'd bet very very few of them get looked > > at. I have found all types of hardware, AN type, that were > > not acceptable for service. Particularly AN bolts. Some > > with not enough metal to stamp the hex head. Come out with > > a round brad type head. Also got one without threads. Made > > a nice pin. > > > > When something happens to an airplane because of a material > > failure we want to point the finger at the guy who made the > > material. Or in this case the guy that designed the system > > for the tail wires. In my opinion, based on a lot of years > > and hours flying in front of this same type tail wire set, > > the designer's qualifications, and years and hours others > > have put on this system, that the system is good, sound, and > > perfectly safe. > > > > Now comes the good part. This, of course, is my own > > personal opinion, for what it is worth, which probably isn't > > much. But it is enough for me to continue flying with my > > tail wires attached with 3/16 bolts and nyloc nuts. In > > fact, I only landed a few minutes ago, after an hour and a > > half flight, in my Mark III with the same configuration. I > > do not believe that that nut decided to come off on that > > particular flight, whether it was 10 minutes or 10 hours. I > > think it has been working on the nut for sometime. The > > pilot in command of the aircraft may not have done a > > thorough preflight, to include actually looking at each nut > > on each of the four positions on the tail wires. If they > > had been religiously inspected each pre flight, the > > loosening nut would have been picked up. > > > > I don't always look at each of the four nuts in question, > > but the ones I don't look at are the ones that I feel with > > my finger to insure that I have some threads protruding > > through the nut. It is easy to visually inspect the top and > > bottom nut, especially the top nut. Have to bend down a > > ways to visually inspect the two on the bottom side of the > > horizontal stabilizers. So if I can't see it, I can feel > > it. > > > > It is easy to get complacent in preflighting the same > > aircraft day after day. Especially items that we "know" > > ain't gonna come off while we are busy having fun cheating > > gravity. Beware, Murphy never rests nor sleeps. He is > > always ready to bite you in the ass. > > > > Take care, > > > > john h > > > > PS: Got 1.5 hrs in the heat. Gonna wait til late this > > evening and burn some more MOGAS. Too hot to play now. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: Cheep Dipole Antenna question
Date: Aug 25, 2002
John, Ok, I checked out Boyd's cheep dipole. Yup that's a cheep one and will work ok. From the sounds of it though, the way he mounted it on the plane would make it more of a V antenna than a true dipole. A true dipole is one a half wave length conductor split in the center and fed in the center . When you start bending those two elements away from a straight line the antenna becomes something other than a dipole which changes the impedance and radiation pattern of the antenna. The Impedance can change, the radiation pattern will change, and of course the inductive coupling with other metal tubes in the frame of the Kolb will change these factors even more. A true dipole works best when suspended in space at least one wave length from any parasitic conductors. Virtually impossible in a Kolb. Also, a dipole is bi-directional where as a 1/4 wave verticle is omni-directional and not influenced as much by parasitic elements. A dipole has some gain because of it's directional characteristics, however. My choice in an aircraft would always be a omni-directional antenna. You can make a 1/4 wave vertical just as cheap as the dipole. One of the things to be aware of with the antenna of Boyds is to keep at least a 90 degree angle in the center. I wouldn't worry too much about the swr if cut to length he suggests. One thing about his dipole is that you could play around with it some to improve directional characteristics. Somebody had stated 120 miles air to air with it on one watt. I don't doubt that at all. But I bet you that in the direction opposite the one that they were comunicating in the distance was just a fraction of that 120 miles. Remember in your old Yagi TV antennas, the element that the wires are connected to is a dipole. All the other elements are parasitic elements that capitalize on the bidirectional characteristics of the dipole. I still give Old Poops antenna my vote. Even if it is just hanging limp underneath his Kolb belly. hehehe..........snuffy ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Jung" <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cheep Dipole Antenna question > > Kirk and Chris and Group, > > Thanks for the tip about Richards antenna. I don't remember seeing his > before. Actually, I was referring to Boyd Young's "cheep dipole > antenna", at: http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html > > Any comments on the safety of using Boyd's antenna without an antenna > meter? Or should I use Richard's design instead? > > John Jung > > > > >Boyd or anyone, > > > >I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to > >25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it > >likely to work better than the rubber ducky? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: nylocs
> >Here is a question for all you engineer types: when you are flying, is >there 'up' pressure on the horizontal fins or 'down' pressure. example, >would they fold up in flight or fall down? sounds silly but got into a >discussion about it and when we were finished, it sounded right both >ways. not telling you which way I voted. (the right way) ted cowan > Ted, It depends how your plane is trimmed. The best way to find out for your plane is to fly it at cruise speed and let go of the stick. If the nose goes down, you have up force on the horizontal stabilizers, and the opposite if the nose goes up. Due to the high thrust line, these directions may switch as one closes or advances the throttle. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
> The DAR's interpretation was that places where > tang's (as well as a few > other places in my Firestar) were located were > subject to rotation and were > included in the above limitation. > Vince Nicely Hey Vince/Gang: Did the DAR explain what there was and how it rotated or was subject to rotation? john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Subject: Re: nylocs
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
I think I agree with what you said,,,, but not sure I follow this. However any aircraft (like a Kolb, certain military aircraft excluded) that has its center of gravity and center of lift at a point on the main wing,,, the force acting on the tail (Horizontal Stabilizer) is a **down force**. This is how they are designed. If it were not so the aircraft would be unstable and exceedingly dangerous to fly. In other words if you loose the bracing on the bottom side of the tail you may notice some flapping around with those surfaces, but the tail will remain in a deployd position and you will be able to finish your flight. If you loose your top bracing your aircraft will crash. As the horizontal surfaces will instantly fold downwards from the aerodynamic loading, you will nose over and enter a dive. Your only option would be your emergency chute. Safety or cotter pin all nuts and bolts..... Ron (CFI and A&P) :-) 8/25/02 6:49John J. Peters > Now you sound like a very practical pilot , anyone that agreea with ME , > must be right , HAAAAA!!!! > > About your question on up vs down pressure on the tail feathers , it > sounds like a decent argument on > either side would get your vote . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Subject: Re: nylocs
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Well truth is that on certified aircraft you are not allowed to use a nyloc on any stractural component. There are self locking nuts that can do the job, better and permanent. But they are not designed to be taken off. I suppose the nylocs are a compromise. Inserting a safety pin or a safety wire at the end should be done on any of those that can become a safety of flight item. I know I will be doing so. Undreds of feet above ground is no place to begine wondering if that nut will hold. Drilling a small hole at the end of the shank and inserting a small cotter pin or safety wire is a no brainer. 8/25/02 5:12Ted Cowan > nyloc WITH A SAFETY PIN. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John J. Peters" <TopGunPI(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: nylocs
Date: Aug 25, 2002
JACK JACK JACK , That statement you sent to Ted , couldn't be more incorrect !!!! ( " If the nose goes down,you have up pressure on the tail ? ) That's equivelant to saying , " if your losing altitude you have down pressure on your wings ,i.e. NO LIFT . IF THE NOSE GOES DOWN , YOU SIMPLY HAVE LESS DOWN PRESSURE ON THE TAIL !!!!!!!!!!!! JJP ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: nylocs > > > > >Here is a question for all you engineer types: when you are flying, is > >there 'up' pressure on the horizontal fins or 'down' pressure. example, > >would they fold up in flight or fall down? sounds silly but got into a > >discussion about it and when we were finished, it sounded right both > >ways. not telling you which way I voted. (the right way) ted cowan > > > Ted, > > It depends how your plane is trimmed. The best way to find out for your plane is to fly it at cruise speed and let go of the stick. If the nose goes down, you have up force on the horizontal stabilizers, and the opposite if the nose goes up. Due to the high thrust line, these directions may switch as one closes or advances the throttle. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Jackson, MO > > > Jack & Louise Hart > jbhart(at)ldd.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
In general, the interpetatotion is that any time you have a twisting force on a nut & bolt it myst be mechanically saftied, nylocs don't do that (or qualify). Nylocs are ok for static aplications. No vibrations or very little etc.. I doubt I can find any place on a small aircraft that is free from vibrations. In my certified airplane the only place I have nylocs is on the antenna base plate, and even on those I applied locktite. :-) Ron 8/25/02 10:07hawk36(at)mindspring.com > Hey Vince/Gang: > > Did the DAR explain what there was and how it rotated or was subject to > rotation? > > john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Aircraft Hardware (Nylocs) and AC43.13-1B
> Well truth is that on certified aircraft you are not allowed to use a nyloc > on any stractural component. There are self locking nuts that can do the > job, better and permanent. But they are not designed to be taken off. I > suppose the nylocs are a compromise. Ron (CFI and A&P) :-) Hi CPT Ron/Gents: Guess I'll have to disagree on your broad statement above, on the use of nyloc nuts, and go with what is in the AC. Recommend you all check out what the reg states. AC 43.13-1B ACCEPTABLE METHODS, TECHNIQUES, AND PRACTICES - AIRCRAFT INSPECTION AND REPAIR can be seen at this url: http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/ I think Vince is the only one who mentioned the referenced AC. When one has questions on what is acceptable and what is not, it pays to go to the reg and check it out. We are extremely lucky in todays electronic environment to be able to have free access on the internet to just about any reg or document that pertains to aviation and home building. This is the place to determine what is and what is not correct, THE BOOK. Ron indicates he is a CFI and A&P. Recommend you take a close look at AC 43.13-1B. You and the AC do not agree. We have beaten nyloc nuts to death. My opinion, for what it is worth is, do it the way the designer indicated, do it your way, do it the way the DAR indicates, and/or do it any way you like. I will continue to use nyloc nuts on the tail wire bracing of my Mark III and any other Kolb aircraft I build and fly. No one knows how or why the nyloc came off the tail wires of John J's Firestar. Another reason why I fly with a ballistic parachute. The info in the AC hasn't changed much or differ any from what we were taught back in the 60's on how to preflight Army helicopters. Two types of lock nuts: All metal and fiber (or nyloc). All metal for high temps, fiber for temps up to 250F. Castle nuts and cotter pins for rotating situations. No need for Loc Tite on a lock nut of either type. Wasting your time and money. Lock nuts can be used more than once. There is a table of torque values that determines if it is a go or a no go. All this info is in the AC. Right out of the AC: "DO NOT use self-locking nuts on parts subject to rotation." Tail wire tangs do not rotate. If you have rotating tail wire tangs, they be mighty loose Vern!!! Here's another quote from the AC: "Refer to the aircraft manufacturers structural repair manual, the manufacturers engineering department, or the FAA, before replacing any nut with any other type." To me that means to do what Homer recommends. BTW: CPT Ron, how about introducing yourself to us on the Kolb List. We would like to know who you are, where you are from, and what you are building and flying. My name is John Hauck. I am flying a Mark III. Have built three Kolbs: Ultrastar, 1984, Firestar, 1986, and the Mark III in 1991d. Live in Titus, Alabama, and been flying out of the same grass strip in the cow pasture for 18 years. Kolbs are my way of "getting high". Some of ya'll will understand that. Take care, john h (hope I don't have a nut loose) :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "vincenicely" <vincenicely(at)chartertn.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 25, 2002
Hi John and all: > Did the DAR explain what there was and how it rotated or was subject to > rotation? I fold my Firestar regularly. Each time the tail is folded, the tangs are free to rotate owing to whatever forces are on the cable. The hinge bolt where the tail pieces fold is another point, for example, where locknuts were supplied wiith my kit and he thought there should be a safety pin or wire on the nut. There were some others, but I do not recall right off where they were. In principle, if you never fold your airplane, I suppose the concern might not apply to the tail pieces. Vince Nicely > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Clarification
> I fold my Firestar regularly. Each time the tail is folded, the tangs are > free to rotate owing to whatever forces are on the cable. > Vince Nicely Vince/Gang: Thanks for the clarification. In your case, if it was me, I would use castle nuts and cotter pins. Not nylocs and self drilling the ends of the bolts for safety pins, etc. The safety pins are questionable to me. There have been reported cases of "hair pins" "spring pins" becoming unattached and lost from the bottom tail wire tang bolt. Don't recommend using the wing nut and safety pin. Wing nut is not designed for the application. I do not fold my airplane, unless it happens during a crash. :-) john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: antenna
Boyd or anyone, I want to make a dipole antenna from RG58 Coax. Is it safe to cut it to 25 inches and see how it works without using an antenna analyzer? Is it likely to work better than the rubber ducky? John Jung Firestar II N6163J Upper Michigan ================================= john if you leave it at 25 inches it will be too long.... and if the antenna is not tuned it can harm the radio and will not perform any better than the rubber duck..... if you dont want to buy a swr meter... try to find a ham radio club and see if someone would help you.... to find a ham radio club go to arrl.org if you dont want to do that let me know and i will measure mine and give you the measurements.... that way you will be closer. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2002
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: nylocs
John, You are absolutely correct. I tried to be too simplistic and as a result incorrect. The thing to remember that when you are cruising along in level flight every thing is in equilibrium. All the forces in the vertical, longitudinal and cross directions cancel each other out, and the sum of the moments around the center of gravity also cancel each other out. If the plane is perfectly trimmed, the pilot can let go of the stick and the plane would continue as before until some atmospheric disturbance upsets this equilibrium. Now assume the aircraft is not perfectly trimmed in pitch but perfectly trimmed in yaw and roll, and that the air through which the plane is flying is perfectly smooth and quiet. If the nose pitches up on release of the stick, the elevator/horizontal stabilizer combination lift has been reduced and wing angle attach increased. Tension in the lower horizontal stabilizer cables will be reduced. If the nose pitches down up on release of the stick, the elevator/horizontal stabilizer combination lift has been increased and wing angle of attack decreased. Tension in the upper horizontal stabilizer cables will be reduced. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO > > JACK JACK JACK , > > That statement you sent to Ted , couldn't be more incorrect !!!! ( " >If the nose goes down,you have up pressure on the tail ? ) That's >equivelant to saying , " if your losing altitude >you have down pressure on your wings ,i.e. NO LIFT . >IF THE NOSE GOES DOWN , YOU SIMPLY HAVE LESS DOWN PRESSURE ON THE TAIL >!!!!!!!!!!!! > >JJP Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Guy Swenson" <guys(at)rrt.net>
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 25, 2002
> I fold my Firestar regularly. Each time the tail is folded, the tangs are > free to rotate owing to whatever forces are on the cable. Vince / Group If your tangs on your tail wires move while in the folded position "Tighten Them Up" They should NOT move. As far as the elevator control pivot bolt goes, the bolt does not move,(or at least it should not move) the elevator moves on the bolt. Just my .02 worth Guy S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Airgriff2(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 36 Msgs - 08/25/02 aileron controls
As someone on the list had done, I tried moving the holes inward on the end of the torque tube, where the aileron push pull rods connect. The person on the list moved his in 1". I extended my p-p rods out (keeping a min. 1/4" of threads into the rod end bearings) and found I could move my holes in 3/4" on my MK3. If anyone tries this, be sure that when fully deflected, the p-p rod does not go past center where it connects to the torque tube. If so, it may become locked or hard to bring ailerons back to neutral. Control stops could be used also to eliminate this. Anyway I thought I would try this and if I wasn't happy I would just go back to the original attachment point. It appears to me, that in flight, stick pressure on the ailerons has been reduced by about 1/3. As the other person on the list mentioned, I am not recommending that anyone on the list make adjustments to their control systems, as I did. All I am doing is passing along something I did and what the results were. Fly safe Bob Griffin Albany NY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Preflight Inspection
I called this company today. They sell the seal for $1. and some change each for a minimum of 6 tubes. I ordered the 6 tube minimum. Seems like a good deal to me. Ron Payne > Gentlemen, > > After I torque or just tighten a nut, I put a glob of "Torque Seal" > across the thread-nut interface, or the head-structural interface or the > nut-washer-structural interface, whichever is proper for that fastened > joint. This brightly colored stuff dries to a very brittle substance > that will break off if the nut or bolt starts to come loose. Vibration > doesn't seem to effect it. Neither does rotation of the propeller on > the prop bolts. > > During preflight, as I'm walking around, all I have to do is look > for the brightly colored "glob" on each bolt and I know that it is still > at the torque that I last left it. If the glob ain't there, it's > a'commin' loose and needs attention. This helps me perform a detailed > inspection without having to wrench each nut to see if it's tight. > > I use it on my PPC and my Kolb with great results. I recommend it > to everyone. > > > Torque Seal Inspection Lacer > P/N F-900, 1/2 oz squeeze tube > Organic Products Company > PO Box 170428 > Irving, Texas 75017 > 972-438-7321 > e-mail: ink(at)opco.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: cheep dipole
I built one, and Erich Weaver built one, to Boyd's instructions, and used the meter. Seems to me, the formula will give you a length of just under 25", using 123.00 for a frequency. Using the meter, it will have you cut it down to about 23" for best SWR. Erich ????? Boyd ????? Is my memory accurate ?? Lar. =========== that is close to what i remember. but i should think that getting it checked is not that hard.... if cut to 23 it should not fry the radio but would not be as good as it can. if you take 118 and 136 then take the average you end up with 127.5 and you should cut the antenna for best swr at that freq... it will be higher at the ends but should be within (no fry limits)i was thnking the legnth was closer to 22.5 inches....for all on the list i will check.... when i tested my rubber duck it was close to the fry limits... some of the newer rubber ducks are better than mine so your milage may vary. boyd ps just saw this on the list Also, a dipole is bi-directional where as a 1/4 wave verticle is omni-directional and not influenced as much by parasitic elements. not exactly true...... but i can see where it comes from..... if you can visualize a wire stuck through a hole in a donut???? the wire is the antenna and the donut is the radiation pattern..... if the wire is horizontal there will be a ring of radiation around the wire and if you were to try to talk to a station some distance from you it would seem that the best radiation patern would be perpendicular to the wire in front and back (bi directional) but if the wire is put in the verticle position the donut is horizontal and puts out a omni directional pattern. and the signal would be equal in all directions and distances..... no flames yet..... the mention of metal tubes in the cage will cause the signal to look like the donut has had a couple of bites taken out of it....(radiation resistance) better signal in some directions than others.... but i never said it was perfect, i just said it will work realy good and not cause ANY drag. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov>
Subject: Re: stuck rings
I'm not a mechanic and I will not depend on a 2 stroke anymore but... When engines are assembled the cylinders are honed and new rings are installed so that the rings will wear or seat into microscopic grooves in the cylinders. If you move these rings around in the inspection process aren't you screwing up the seating of these rings??? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIII >>> ulflyer(at)airmail.net 08/23/02 06:43PM >>> How do you know - well sometimes your will start getting different CHT & EGT temps. A sign something is going on. We usually check ours about every 25-50 hours taking a compression test and recording the values followed by dropping the exhaust manifold and take a peek at the rings. We also take a small long blade screwdriver and try to move each ring. They should move a little, major resistance shows there is carbon buildup in the grooves. While were there we look for funny vertical scrap marks on the pistons indicating a seizure has occurred some time. jerryb > > >In a message dated 8/23/02 2:51:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > > I flew 11 years having to take my engine apart every 150 hours due to ring > > sticking > >I was wondering how rotax owners, who find rings that stick, notice that they >had a problem. Is it something you find visually during annual inspection, >or when it happens, does it show up immediately as a loss of rpm, or >roughness in running? How do you know when the rings stick? > >Bob G >Albany NY > >Bob, > >There is no warning if a ring sticks. The engine will run fine on one >ring. In my case, I ran it for a long time without checking anything as I >was new to this. Finally one winter day, I was flying along over the >frozen lake (luckily) and the rpms dropped off quickly and the EGT went >beyond 1300F. The engine quit in the air after that and I glided to a safe >landing on the lake. I tried all afternoon to get it started, but could >not. Spent the night out there in -5F conditions. > >After taking the cylinders off (at home), I found the bottom ring on the >rear cylinder stuck. I had the engine overhauled by a 2-stroke mechanic >and flew another 250 hours on that 377 until I got a good deal on my 447 >that I fly with to this day. > >When I got the 447, I heard about Klotz synthetic oil and Seafoam. I >inspect the rings on an annual basis and do the treatments. Hopefully, I >won't have to spend another night on a frozen lake. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original Firestar >15 years flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsellers(at)sgtcollege.org>
Subject: stuck rings
Date: Aug 26, 2002
The rings in a 2 stroke have dowels in the groves to keep them from moving. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Neilsen Subject: Re: Kolb-List: stuck rings I'm not a mechanic and I will not depend on a 2 stroke anymore but... When engines are assembled the cylinders are honed and new rings are installed so that the rings will wear or seat into microscopic grooves in the cylinders. If you move these rings around in the inspection process aren't you screwing up the seating of these rings??? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIII >>> ulflyer(at)airmail.net 08/23/02 06:43PM >>> How do you know - well sometimes your will start getting different CHT & EGT temps. A sign something is going on. We usually check ours about every 25-50 hours taking a compression test and recording the values followed by dropping the exhaust manifold and take a peek at the rings. We also take a small long blade screwdriver and try to move each ring. They should move a little, major resistance shows there is carbon buildup in the grooves. While were there we look for funny vertical scrap marks on the pistons indicating a seizure has occurred some time. jerryb > > >In a message dated 8/23/02 2:51:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >kolb-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > > I flew 11 years having to take my engine apart every 150 hours due to ring > > sticking > >I was wondering how rotax owners, who find rings that stick, notice that they >had a problem. Is it something you find visually during annual inspection, >or when it happens, does it show up immediately as a loss of rpm, or >roughness in running? How do you know when the rings stick? > >Bob G >Albany NY > >Bob, > >There is no warning if a ring sticks. The engine will run fine on one >ring. In my case, I ran it for a long time without checking anything as I >was new to this. Finally one winter day, I was flying along over the >frozen lake (luckily) and the rpms dropped off quickly and the EGT went >beyond 1300F. The engine quit in the air after that and I glided to a safe >landing on the lake. I tried all afternoon to get it started, but could >not. Spent the night out there in -5F conditions. > >After taking the cylinders off (at home), I found the bottom ring on the >rear cylinder stuck. I had the engine overhauled by a 2-stroke mechanic >and flew another 250 hours on that 377 until I got a good deal on my 447 >that I fly with to this day. > >When I got the 447, I heard about Klotz synthetic oil and Seafoam. I >inspect the rings on an annual basis and do the treatments. Hopefully, I >won't have to spend another night on a frozen lake. > >Ralph Burlingame >Original Firestar >15 years flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org>
Subject: Re: oil & tail wire tang bolts
Date: Aug 26, 2002
Group, Listers& Lurkers: >The safety pins are questionable to me. There have been >reported cases of "hair pins" "spring pins" becoming >unattached and lost from the bottom tail wire tang bolt. >Don't recommend using the wing nut and safety pin. Wing nut >is not designed for the application. I have folded my Firestar I every time I fly and use the wingnut and spring pin on the bottom tangs of the tailpost wires. I have NEVER seen the wingnut loosen up against the spring pin, it always stays finger tight. Tall grass is a concern, I have found grass stuck in the tang area, and the spring clip is a preflight check. I did a 100 hr. decarbon recently on my 40 hp. Hirth, and I have been using Amsoil 50:1 racing oil. The carbon was not very thick but was rock hard and very difficult to remove- should have soaked it . There was about a 1/4" long area of carbon behind the top rings on both pistons, the rest of the grooves were spotless. I have used seafoam aproximately every 30 hrs. and I don't believe it works for me. Maybe I would have different results with a mineral based oil. I am trying Klotz snowmobile techniplate, and will report back in another 100 hrs. Darren , FSI , Central MI. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: cheep dipole
Date: Aug 26, 2002
if you can visualize a wire stuck through a hole > in a donut???? the wire is the antenna and the donut is > the radiation pattern..... What happens to the donuts when you bent the wire into a V or some other convoluted shape? Which of course is being done in this instance. A perfectly straight or near straight wire 1/2 wave in length, fed at the center in free space? I'll buy the donuts yeah. Vertical polarization would also be omni directional relative to earth based stations yes in the case of a true dipole.......Don't know where the statement was about metal tubes making it look like a donut came from. Probably deductive distortion. That won't change antenna radiation patterns however. Inductive coupling will though. Not a major factor however. The twisting and turning of the dipole does deplete duality but not the dielectric constant......%} .-- -... ---.. --.. -- -.-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420(at)motorola.com>
Subject: escaped disaster
Date: Aug 26, 2002
-----Original Message----- From: John Hauck [mailto:hawk36(at)mindspring.com] Subject: Re: Kolb-List: escaped disaster Kolbers, Last spring I saw a Firestar II at a local fly-in that the owner opted to replace lower tail flying wires with 3031 tube pushrod material, basically the same type of set up for aileron push rods. I'm sure a bit heavier set up, but no F4 Phantom effect if upper landing wires should come loose as did JJP's. Tim When something happens to an airplane because of a material failure we want to point the finger at the guy who made the material. Or in this case the guy that designed the system for the tail wires. In my opinion, based on a lot of years and hours flying in front of this same type tail wire set, the designer's qualifications, and years and hours others have put on this system, that the system is good, sound, and perfectly safe. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: cheep dipole
Boyd and other radio guys, Let add one more potential problem. I have a Firestar instead of a Mark III and the nose cone is narrower. Would this be a reason not to used the cheep dipole? Here is the probem that I am trying to fix. My handheld sits at my left, just aft of the throttle, in a verticle position. I can reach the controls and read the display there. But it picks up some interference, occasionally, and it won't stop unless I touch the antenna or move the radio slightly. That is why I want to use a remote antenna. All help is appreciated. Radios are the most difficult part of flying for me to understand. John Jung ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Noise reduction
Bill is correct. I have a Yaesu VXA-100, and I have had problems transmitting from a headset while flying. I checked with the Yaesu tech people and I found that the microphone internal to the radio is not and cannot be disconnected while one is trying to transmit from a headset. The tech's recommendation was to plug the mic hole in the front of the hand held with tape etc. I have not tried it yet but I will. In later Yaesu models, one can program them to turn off the internal microphone. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO > >Bill. >A couple things come to mind. >One, what kind of radio are you using and are you using a hand held and the >push to talk switch or separate PTT switch. Reason, some radio when keyed >using the PTT button on the side will turn both the headset mike and the >hand held mike, causing a lot of background noise. > >jerryb > >> >> >> OK Kolbers I need your help again. I need you ideas on how to >>reduce the noise in the cockpit primarily because of not being able to >>transmit on the radio. When I built the gap seal I installed a soft pack Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Flight to Plano, Texas Bill Wisely
, Clair Buttons > > >(Guy's, John is one of the hard core Kolb builders, let's see if we can >accommodate him. He's a good guy. John has a Kolb MKIII, 2 place. Jerry) John?? Hmm don't think I ever heard of him. does he fly much ;) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Head replacement
Ken, I can give you a few answers, but the engine experts will have to handle the rest. >1. Should any sort of "gasket goop" be used or is the gasket all naked and >alone the the proper way to go? > naked and clean with a new gasket > >2. This is an older 503, single ignition, only four bolt holes in the head. >I have the torquing specs, but am unclear of the pattern and process to >tighten them and have come to understand this is critical. Anyone care to >explain in words of one syllable or less? > Experts needed here. I'm not sure if you can do only one head at a time. I would think you could but the torque specs are not written that way. > >3. Does a head replacement require a break-in period? If so, what is it and >how is it done? > No >4. While the head is off, what else should I be looking at and for? Please >bear in mind I have no knowledge of engines. For example, I had to ask >somebody what "the PTO side" meant. > I can't think of anything, but someone probably will. John Jung > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Noise reduction
Jack, Would you know if the Yaesu Aviator Pro II has the mic hooked up like that? Mine has not worked very poorly with a headset. John Jung Jack & Louise Hart wrote: > >Bill is correct. I have a Yaesu VXA-100, and I have had problems transmitting from a headset while flying. I checked with the Yaesu tech people and I found that the microphone internal to the radio is not and cannot be disconnected while one is trying to transmit from a headset. The tech's recommendation was to plug the mic hole in the front of the hand held with tape etc. I have not tried it yet but I will. In later Yaesu models, one can program them to turn off the internal microphone. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: cheep dipole
George, That is good news. Now I think that we are getting somewhere. So, did you use an antenna meter and what length did you use? Is the center at the top, with the center wire going down one side and the sheilding going down the other side? Do I have the picture correct? John Jung George Alexander wrote: > >John et al: > >I have an original Firestar and use the cheap dipole taped to the inside >(top) of the nose cone. Works far better than the rubber ducky even when the >RD was mounted vertically outside the cone. > >George Alexander > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Noise reduction
John, I believe yours can be programmed to shut down the internal microphone. If you check the menu under "Set" you should find a setting under the name "IMI" that lets you turn it on or off. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO > >Jack, > >Would you know if the Yaesu Aviator Pro II has the mic hooked up like >that? Mine has not worked very poorly with a headset. > >John Jung > >Jack & Louise Hart wrote: > >> >>Bill is correct. I have a Yaesu VXA-100, and I have had problems transmitting from a headset while flying. I checked with the Yaesu tech people and I found that the microphone internal to the radio is not and cannot be disconnected while one is trying to transmit from a headset. The tech's recommendation was to plug the mic hole in the front of the hand held with tape etc. I have not tried it yet but I will. In later Yaesu models, one can program them to turn off the internal microphone. >> Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Noise reduction
Jack and Group, My Yaesu is the VXA-120 and I did find the program place that could turn off the internal mic. It was already off. So, I hope that the external antenna that I am working on makes the difference. John Jung John Jung wrote: > >Jack, > >Would you know if the Yaesu Aviator Pro II has the mic hooked up like >that? Mine has not worked very poorly with a headset. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Head replacement
> >2. This is an older 503, single ignition, only four bolt holes in the head. >I have the torquing specs, but am unclear of the pattern and process to >tighten them and have come to understand this is critical. Anyone care to >explain in words of one syllable or less? Hey Ken I don't know for sure but I would tighten the bolts diagonally (top, bottom right, left) in 25 lb increments (25 - 50 - 75 etc>) The general theory to any head torqueing is to start in the center of a head and work out to the ends evenly. While the head is off look at the cylinders for unusual scuff marks or scratches. In case of trouble I may be in your area on the weekend to visit the Renaissance festival. Let me know if you need help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2002
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Noise reduction - try 199 dollar ANR's
P M Condon wrote: > > Buy some 200 dollar ANR's and enjoy > life. Call Lightspeed's 800 phone number and ask for the factory > rebuilds. Mr. Condon, Today, I ordered the only one they had in stock. thanks for the tip. ********************* Ken W. Korenek ken-foi(at)attbi.com Kolb FireStar II, "My Mistress" Rotax 503, Oil Injected 3 Blade Powerfin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image003.jpg Six Chuter SR7-XL "Elmo" Powered Parachute Rotax 582, Oil Injected 3 Blade PowerFin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image005.jpg 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ********************* Ken W. Korenek 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 ken-foi(at)attbi.com 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: Trim
Date: Aug 27, 2002
Hi Ken and Gang, I had a similar problem with my FS II if I understand you correctly. I always had to hold the stick to the right as the plane wanted to bank to the left a little bit. I put a trim tab bent down in the middle of the right aileron. That took care of my problem. If you lengthen the aileron adjustment tube it will only make your control stick off center as the ailerons will still be in the same position while flying. The other option, and I believe that I saw this suggested here on this list, is to modify the universal joint where it attaches at the back side of the wing. Specifically what was described was to drill the hole off center on the half of the universal joint that attaches to the cage so that he back side of the wing is lowered slightly thereby changing the angle of attach slightly and giving more lift. For the back pressure on the stick problem, I think the solution most folks use is to slightly raise or lower the ailerons by adjusting both aileron tubes equally. This neutralizes the forces so you don't have to hold the stick back. I think you would need to raise the ailerons slightly if your having hold back stick. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. (Wouldn't be the first time) I'm sure you will get plenty of other ideas from the wealth of knowledge on this list. Later, John Cooley FS II #1162 122 hrs > > Hey Kolbers! > > The new wings seem to perform well, but I've noticed that in really > smooth air, the left wing will fall if I let go of the stick. > > What's the best way to correct this problem? Put a trim tab bent > up on the left aileron or just lengthen the left aileron adjustment > tube? > > I have some adjusting to do- I have to hold more stick back pressure > than I like and the left wing falls slightly, but other than that, "My > Mistress" climbs and cruises better than I thought she would. > > Ya'll got any suggestions? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 27, 2002
Subject: Re: FireStars in the St. Louis area
Does anyone have the name and telephone or e-mail number of the Kolb owner that has the engine in the nose? I would like to talk to him. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: control linkage change
As someone on the list had done, I tried moving the holes inward on the end of the torque tube, where the aileron push pull rods connect. The person on the list moved his in 1". I extended my p-p rods out (keeping a min. 1/4" of threads into the rod end bearings) ============================= when asking about the amount of threads that should be left in the rod end bearings i was told that 6 full threads inserted was the minimum safe number.... not sure how that responds to 1/4 inch boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: cheep antenna
Boyd and other radio guys, Let add one more potential problem. I have a Firestar instead of a Mark III and the nose cone is narrower. Would this be a reason not to used the cheep dipole? Here is the probem that I am trying to fix. My handheld sits at my left, just aft of the throttle, in a verticle position. I can reach the controls and read the display there. But it picks up some interference, occasionally, and it won't stop unless I touch the antenna or move the radio slightly. That is why I want to use a remote antenna. All help is appreciated. Radios are the most difficult part of flying for me to understand. John Jung =================== not sure why you have to touch the radio or antenna..... but for the cost of the dipole it would be worth a try..... a bnc connector and 5 to 7 ft of coax should not put anyone in the poor house. there is another way to change the antenna to fit in a smaller space..... wrap it around a wooden dowell. so it kind of looks like a spring and tape it there....... i have not tried this and not sure if you would need it to be longer or shorter but it should work..... they make ham radio antennas out of a slinky toy. when installing the dipole keep the center part of the antena as close to vertical as possible... that is where the greatest curent is located.... the ends can go horizontal if needed.. i guess we could try a loop antenna..... the process would be the same but start with twice the amount of bare wire aprox 45 for the brade and 45 for the center conductor..... solder the ends together and wrap the wire around the nose cone..... with the coax connector on the side it is a verticle polerazation..... on second thought it would probably be too long at this frequency to fit properly. the loop antenna will give you better signal forward and back with less signal to the sides. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: cheep antenna
That is good news. Now I think that we are getting somewhere. So, did you use an antenna meter and what length did you use? Is the center at the top, with the center wire going down one side and the sheilding going down the other side? Do I have the picture correct? John Jung ============== the center of the dipole should be on the side.... center going up and braid going down. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 27, 2002
Subject: Engine mounted on nose
Here are some more pictures I took of this one of a kind Kolb. Looks like the wings, landing gear and the tail section is all thats left of the Kolb everything else was redone. http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f04.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f03.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f02.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f01.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f01.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f02.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f03.jpg http://members.aol.com/willuribe/f04.jpg Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen E. Spence" <sspence(at)tm.net>
Subject: Re: Trim
Date: Aug 27, 2002
John, Ken & gang: John is almost right. Adjusting just one pushrod will eventually change the position of both ailerons. The pressure on the two ailerons will try to equalize, moving the stick neutral and repositioning both ailerons either reflexed up or drooping down. The trim tab is the way to go, however, it does not sound like you would need much of one or much of a bend. I had to hold right stick on my Fire Fly and used a tab to correct. Tab was made to Kolbs plans, spanned two bays (three tubes) and had a 30 degree bend. Shortly after take off I realized I was in trouble. It took two hands on stick to keep level. I was real glad to get down without destroying plane or myself. I took all the bend out of the tab now and the FF flies just fine. If you only notice the wing drop with hands off, that is very close, you might consider just letting it go that way. (my .02 worth. Steve Spence FF 013, building Mk3X Auburn Hills, MI ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim > > Hi Ken and Gang, > > I had a similar problem with my FS II if I understand you correctly. I > always had to hold the stick to the right as the plane wanted to bank to the > left a little bit. I put a trim tab bent down in the middle of the right > aileron. That took care of my problem. > > If you lengthen the aileron adjustment tube it will only make your control > stick off center as the ailerons will still be in the same position while > flying. > > The other option, and I believe that I saw this suggested here on this list, > is to modify the universal joint where it attaches at the back side of the > wing. Specifically what was described was to drill the hole off center on > the half of the universal joint that attaches to the cage so that he back > side of the wing is lowered slightly thereby changing the angle of attach > slightly and giving more lift. > > For the back pressure on the stick problem, I think the solution most folks > use is to slightly raise or lower the ailerons by adjusting both aileron > tubes equally. This neutralizes the forces so you don't have to hold the > stick back. I think you would need to raise the ailerons slightly if your > having hold back stick. > > Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. (Wouldn't be the > first time) > > I'm sure you will get plenty of other ideas from the wealth of knowledge on > this list. > > Later, > John Cooley > FS II #1162 122 hrs > > > > > > Hey Kolbers! > > > > The new wings seem to perform well, but I've noticed that in really > > smooth air, the left wing will fall if I let go of the stick. > > > > What's the best way to correct this problem? Put a trim tab bent > > up on the left aileron or just lengthen the left aileron adjustment > > tube? > > > > I have some adjusting to do- I have to hold more stick back pressure > > than I like and the left wing falls slightly, but other than that, "My > > Mistress" climbs and cruises better than I thought she would. > > > > Ya'll got any suggestions? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JCBuckeridge" <buckeridge1(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: FireStars in the St. Louis Area
Date: Aug 27, 2002
The fellow with the VW in the nose of the FireStar is Bill Bronson. He writes the column in the EAA Experimenter magazine. If you ask really good questions you might get published. Try this: onehalfvwguy(at)worldnet.att.net. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: cheep antenna
Concerning the problem of making antennas (not antennae as the media says) physically shorter: There are two ways. One is to place a coil (inductance) in series with the bottom (fed end) of the antenna. The other way is to place a capacitor at the top end. The latter is not as good, from a construction basis, since it entails placing a circular disc (or circular array of wire spokes) on the very end of the antenna. The two methods are, respectively, bottom loaded and top loaded. During the CB days (urgh, I'm gonna call LD on the Porcelain Phone) the problem of mounting a 27 mHz whip on a car, meant an antenna many feet long. Of course the same for hams operating in the 10-11 meter band. So to get a shorter antenna, a large coil was inserted in the bottom end of the antenna-- sometimes in a plastic can, other as a coil wound around the bottom few inches of the whip. The top loading disc was rarely seen. At this late date in my life I no longer have such test equipment such as a Field Strength Meter or a Standing Wave meter/bridge to perform accurate tests of antenna efficiency, I believe I can safely say that all this micro-measuring, SWR-nulling of antennas is both unnecessary and wasteful of hours that should be spent in Just Flying. Ain't gonna fry no finals with these LP handhelds. If your radio xmtr is so powerful that it may lie down and croak unless it "sees" a SWR of 1.0000, you ain't flyin' a UL---even a FAT ONE, you're drivin' a beeg one. licensed ham since '50, bootlegger before, flyin' before all that Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
Subject: Re: control linkage change
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Only 3 threads are normally required. :-) 8/27/02 12:40b young > when asking about the amount of threads that should be left > in the rod end bearings i was told that 6 full threads > inserted was the minimum safe number.... not sure how that > responds to 1/4 inch ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2002
Subject: Re: cheep antenna
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
I am getting kinda confused on this. Are we talking about a regular coaxial cable with a center + lead, and the shield is the (-)? And what is a dipole? I am pondering wheather I should build an integrated antenna while I am building the rest. Ron 8/27/02 13:00b young > the center of the dipole should be on the side.... center > going up and braid going down. > > boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: control linkage change
The Kolb Yellow Book of Diagrams that came with my MKIII states on page 7, "Aileron Push-Pull Tubes" that the rod end bearing insert (threaded portion) should go up into the rod end bearing at least 1/4". Many female rod end bearings have little inspection holes drilled into the side of the shank. Insert a bit of safety wire into the hole, and if you don't hit the end of the threaded rod, then the threaded rod isn't in deep enough. If you have an Aircraft Spruce catalog, or any catalog that shows the tables of various female rod end bearings, they indicate how far up the inspection hole is from the end. The bearing that accepts a 10/32" threaded rod has the inspection hole at 5/16" depth. 1/4" rod has it at 5/16" depth. 5/16" rod has it at 13/32" depth 3/8" rod has it at 15/32" depth 7/16" rod has it at 17/32" depth 1/2" rod has it at 19/32" depth So that's how far in I would want the threaded rod to go. Amen? Per AC 43.13, concerning locknuts: A threaded bolt or screw, if it has a rounded or chamfered end, should extend at least the full round or chamfer through the a fiber or nylon locknut. Flat end screws, bolts or studs should extend at least 1/32" through the locknut. And per AC 43.13 concerning turnbuckles: On a turnbuckle, where the threaded portion of the cable eye or fork is exposed, no more than three threads are allowed to be showing. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Only 3 threads are normally required. :-) > > >8/27/02 12:40b young > >> when asking about the amount of threads that should be left >> in the rod end bearings i was told that 6 full threads >> inserted was the minimum safe number.... not sure how that >> responds to 1/4 inch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsellers(at)sgtcollege.org>
Subject: Brakes
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Anyone out there have an Ultra Star with brakes? I have the brakes (4 1/2" internal) mounted to the wheels and welded a flange to the axle and mounted the backing plates. Everything works fine. I want to attach the cables to heel pedals. Any one done that? If so how did you do it? I'm thinking of taking the large rudder pedals and modifying them so that they look like the ones on a Fire Star only with the pedal part facing inward and attaching the rudder cables to the pedal verticals. Then, construct some smaller pedals to work on the same tube that the rudder pedal work on and attach the brake cables to them with the cable end/adjusters mounted to the floor. This way I will have differential braking. Opinions? Anyone got a better way? Dale Sellers Georgia Ultra Star ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: trim tab
The trim tab is the way to go, however, it does not sound like you would need much of one or much of a bend. ======================== been experimenting with a trim tab with good results....... my mk III rolled slightly to the right.... had to hold about 1 to 2 bounds on the stick.... i built the tab to cover 1 bay... the metal was .025 alum.. measured 12.75 x 3... it was bent along the long axis at the 1 inch mark... the 1 inch side was riveted to the ribs. with the 2 inch side extending... the bend was such that the end of the 2 inch side was 1/2 inch above a flat surface while the 1 inch section was held down flat. we determined that the bottom side of the aileron would be the best side to install with the bend going down... my plane rolled to the right so we installed it on the left wing. we taped it on with duct tape and went for a ride and i could go for minuets at a time hands off.... sometimes rolling to the right and sometimes to the left when going through different air patterns. the other mod i did was to double the dihedredral in the wings... before i had negative roll stability.... now it is neutral.... if working it up again i would increase the dihedral a bit more and get positive roll stability. to look at it you cant tell the difference. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: antenna
I am getting kinda confused on this. Are we talking about a regular coaxial cable with a center + lead, and the shield is the (-)? And what is a dipole? I am pondering wheather I should build an integrated antenna while I am building the rest. Ron ron look at this link http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html in an ideal world the braid and center conductor should be straight.... in the kolb it ends up in more of a L shape but it works just fine. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Subject: Rod_end thread requirement
It's very simple. Female rodends have sight holes across the chank to check for proper thread length. If you can look through the holes or push a thin wire (paperclip) through it, there are NOT enough threads engaged. That's what the FAA or other inspector does. Herb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@advanced-connect.net>
Subject: Re: Brakes
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Dale, On my old US, I mounted the 2 brake cylinders on the side of the cage. Used 2 levers side by side that could be easily actuated with palm of hand. Since I used a motorcycle throttle on the joy stick, I always had my left hand free to work the brakes or flaperons. ...Richard Swiderski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Sellers" <dsellers(at)sgtcollege.org> Subject: Kolb-List: Brakes > > Anyone out there have an Ultra Star with brakes? I have the brakes (4 1/2" > internal) mounted to the wheels and welded a flange to the axle and mounted > the backing plates. Everything works fine. I want to attach the cables to > heel pedals. Any one done that? If so how did you do it? I'm thinking of > taking the large rudder pedals and modifying them so that they look like the > ones on a Fire Star only with the pedal part facing inward and attaching the > rudder cables to the pedal verticals. Then, construct some smaller pedals > to work on the same tube that the rudder pedal work on and attach the brake > cables to them with the cable end/adjusters mounted to the floor. This way > I will have differential braking. Opinions? Anyone got a better way? > > Dale Sellers > Georgia Ultra Star > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com>
Subject: Re: FireStars in the St. Louis area
> > > > Could you get a few more pictures of the FS with the engine in the > nose? > > That looks neat, but sure leads to a lot of questions. > > > > Yea like does (or how) it flies? ....what about the CG? > > Curious, > Geoff Thistlethwaite I think this is the same plane in the taxi mode. -- Earl http://vulaorg.hostme.com/pictures2/engines/fourstar1lgbronsonvw.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on the ground ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: Richard Carlisle <rrcarl(at)concentric.net>
Have you priced a new engine lately? Major price increase as of 8/1/02. I've heard the the 912 had a $2000 price increase. On the other hand...Rotax parts have always been notoriously high. Ross > From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> > Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:00:24 -0400 > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock > > > > I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never > needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just > ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. > $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy > making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or > normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? > All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for > inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My > drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A > bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on > the ground > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Is there any way to price shop for those rotax parts on the Net? Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from fraying before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. Any ideas out in Kolb Land? 8/28/02 18:00Woody > > > I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never > needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just > ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. > $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy > making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or > normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? > All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for > inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My > drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A > bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on > the ground > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
Subject: Re: FireStars in the St. Louis area
From: herbgh(at)juno.com
List Gotta say; I think that the half vw engine is mounted on the front of a highly modified Ultrastar?? Herb in Ky writes: > > > > > > > > > Could you get a few more pictures of the FS with the engine > in the > > nose? > > > That looks neat, but sure leads to a lot of questions. > > > > > > > Yea like does (or how) it flies? ....what about the CG? > > > > Curious, > > Geoff Thistlethwaite > > I think this is the same plane in the taxi mode. -- Earl > http://vulaorg.hostme.com/pictures2/engines/fourstar1lgbronsonvw.jpg > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 28, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: frayed cables
Are we talking about the 3/32" cables that go to the rudder and elevators? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from fraying >before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables >fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. > Any ideas out in Kolb Land? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vincehallam(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
please some info on"2SI" vnz hallam uk/// ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: frayed cables
Air Craft Spruce sells a small cable cutter. It works like a set of wire cutters but has curved jaws. This is what I used on all my cables and it cuts a clean end on the cables with no fraying. Don't remember what it costs but as far as I can remember it was not expensive. Ron Payne -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:16:53 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: frayed cables Are we talking about the 3/32" cables that go to the rudder and elevators? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from fraying >before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables >fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. > Any ideas out in Kolb Land? > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Geoff Thistlethwaite" <geoffthis(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: frayed cables
Date: Aug 29, 2002
When I made up my rudder and elevator cables I purchased this cable cutter and it did an excellent job of making a good clean cut. But to help keep all the little wires where they belong my uncle had me wrap one layer of masking tape around the cable at the cut point and cut the wire with the tape being left on both cut ends. I had no more problem with the cables fraying as I threaded the swags on.... hope this helps Geoff Thistlethwaite ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: frayed cables > > Air Craft Spruce sells a small cable cutter. It works like a set of wire > cutters but has curved jaws. This is what I used on all my cables and it > cuts a clean end on the cables with no fraying. Don't remember what it costs > but as far as I can remember it was not expensive. > > Ron Payne > > -------Original Message------- > > From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:16:53 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: frayed cables > > > Are we talking about the 3/32" cables that go to the rudder and elevators? > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > > > > >Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from > fraying > >before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables > >fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. > > Any ideas out in Kolb Land? > > > > > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com>
Subject: Re: FireStars in the St. Louis area
WillUribe(at)aol.com wrote: > Here is a picture of another Kolb with the engine on the nose. > http://vulaorg.hostme.com/pictures2/earlyplanes/kolbtractor.jpg I think that this one is the Kolb Co. TwinsStar prototype, and that is Homer in the left seat. -- Earl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
Date: Aug 29, 2002
What would you like to know? 2SI currently has 4 basic engines available. There is the 430FE-35 which is a direct decendant from the Cuyuna 430. Like the Rotax 503, it has undergone a lot of improvements over the years though. There is the 460F-35 which is really close to the same as the 430FE-35 except no electrical system, a larger bore, and a lighter weight, lower output exhaust system. This is the engine that Skystar is using on the Kitfox Lite and Aeroworks is using on the Aerolite 103. Personally, I would go with the 430FE-35 for $100 more and 5 pounds, you get an electrical system and about 3 more HP. Then there is the 460L-46 which is a two cylinder, piston ported, liquid cooled 2-stroke which puts out about 46 HP at 6250RPM. It comes standard with single carb and electric start although a prototype of a manual start, dual carb version has just been finished and will be tested in coming months. This engine uses the same bottom end as the 430FE and the 460F. The 690 and the 460L both share the same top end only the 460L is 2 cylinders and the 690 is 3. The 690L-70 is a three cylinder, piston ported, liquid cooled 2-stroke that puts out 70 hp at 6250 rpm. It also comes standard with electric start and has 3 Bing 54 carbs. The biggest problem that I hear about the engines on any kind of a regular basis is getting them jetted right when you first start out. They usually get sent out pretty rich. They are also working on a dual carb kit for the 460F-35 and 430FE-35 to put them up over 40hp and I am working on getting the job of flight testing that engine on my powered parachute design when completed, but again that is a ways off yet. If you have any questions, please let me know. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vincehallam(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock please some info on"2SI" vnz hallam uk/// ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: frayed cables
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Yes, thats right 3/32, they keep fraying on me. :-) =============================== 8/28/02 20:23Richard Pike > Are we talking about the 3/32" cables that go to the rudder and elevators? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
Sorry I see that 2si word being talked about like it is a real option. As an old timer I remember the 2si when it was sold under another name "Cyuna". It was a early leader in the untralight engine business when it was able to run under load for more than 30 minutes without seizing. Then Rotax started selling engines it disappeared from the market over night. At one point the company that now sells the 2si had a twin engine package so that when one engine seized you could limp home on the remaining engine. They may have fixed their product but one would think the price would increase if it was as any good. If it sounds too good to be true, it might be. I really don't want to fly a 2 stroke and I will not pay the inflated cost of a Rotax, Lycoming, or Continental engine. I have been flying VWs on my Kolb for four years and am getting close to a good alternative to these high priced engines. I'm in the process of trading my reduction drive from Gene Smith. I don't know the cost yet (it may be free) but I will be changing the reduction ratio to a 1.66 to 1 reduction instead of my 1.6 to one and it will also have .5 inch lower thrust line. My problem is the prop is a bit too large to get a good speed range. I have tried lowering the pitch on the prop so that I get 3700 on take off but then the engine will go over 4300 at high throttle (below red line) but just too fast and is too busy for my tastes. Last night I flew with a pitch setting where I was getting 3100 on take off and 3800 WOT at 83MPH actual. I flew around at 3100RPM on the engine 1937RPM at the prop doing 73MPH actual. The engine just purred and the noise level was so low that I shut off the ANR on my head phones and then took them off. It was still noisy but tolerable about like a Cessna 172. This pitch setting will be my traveling pitch. The new reduction ratio will at the very least increase the engine RPMs by 100RPM and hopefully give me better climb at higher pitch settings. The lowered thrust line will help the pitch down problem that I get with heaver passengers. I have added weight to the tail for flying with heavy passengers but I really don't want to add weight when I'm already heavy. Sorry this was so long but that 2 stroke 2si thing got me going. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIII >>> CaptainRon(at)theriver.com 08/28/02 11:57PM >>> Well 2si is certainly an option. if I recall correctly their max output is 70hp. At my summer density altitude of 8000 ft at ground level that engine only puts out about 53 Hp. I don't know how well the M3E does on 53 Hp at gross weight. Its fairly heavy p/w ratio at 19# per hp. I have flown worse but it has never been fun. And this kolb is about fun for me. :-) I would like to add that if I were at near 0 MSL the 2si would certainly be first choice for me. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D Smalec" <smald(at)shianet.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 08/28/02
Date: Aug 29, 2002
>>Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the >>control cables from fraying >>before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today Any ideas out in Kolb Land? Use a small piece of thin tape and wrap the cable before cutting, be sure it is not under your swedge. >>I would like to add that if I were at near 0 MSL the 2si would certainly be >>first choice for me. If you haven't, do an archive search on 2SI before you get your wallet out! Darren, FSI, 2702 Hirth, Central MI. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: frayed cables
The easiest way to get a good clean cut on 1/16" or 3/32" cable is with a hammer, an anvil, and a cold chisel. For your anvil, get any flat fairly heavy substantial piece of metal. I currently use an old sheet metal dolly, but in the past have used the side of an axe head or the side of a splitting wedge for the anvil. Make sure the cold chisel is sharp. You can wrap the end of the cable with tape, but a little practice normally makes that unnecessary. Lay the cable on the anvil, (If you don't have a helper to hold the cable still, a swatch of duct tape will hold the cable still on the anvil) position the chisel, and strike the chisel sharply with the hammer. Nine times out of ten, it will be perfect on the first shot. Even if it takes a second lick, it still will not fray. Try it, you will probably like it better than using a cable cutter. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Yes, thats right 3/32, they keep fraying on me. :-) > >=============================== > > >8/28/02 20:23Richard Pike > >> Are we talking about the 3/32" cables that go to the rudder and elevators? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: Richard Carlisle <rrcarl(at)concentric.net>
> Sorry I see that 2si word being talked about like it is a real option. I actually prefer the power to weight ratios that 2 strokes offer, but I would not fly a 2SI or Hirth. Too many horror stories out there...and too many first hand experiences. The price point really is not a valid argument for the 2SI or Hirth. A comparable engine to Rotax is only slightly less money. Not enough to be a test pilot for the engine manufacturer. The 430FE-35 which I assume is roughly comparable to the Rotax 447 goes for $2713 with gear box as per Tom's web site. We just bought a new 447 last week for $2800 with gearbox. Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Ross, That gearbox is comparable to a Rotax type C and for the 46 hp engine and under, their belt drive works great and is just as reliable as a type B gearbox. It runs very smooth, is easy to preflight and save a bunch of weight and cost. It has turned out to be a very good drive and then the cost is $2373 compared to $2800. If you look at the 460L-46 at $2914 with gearbox and electric start, compare that to a single carb 503 with type C drive and electric start at $4371. Or compare a 690L-70 with electric start and gearbox at $4194 compared to the 582 with C drive and electric start at $5724. The real cost savings though, is in the parts. A piston assy for a 2SI 430FE-35 including rings and wrist pin is just $68. A 447 piston with rings is $173 and that does not include the wrist pin. So you are looking at a 1/3 of the cost for a piston. A complete seal and gasket set for any of the 2SI engines including the 3 cylinder 690 is less than $40. A seal and gasket set for a 582 is $158. A cylinder head for a 430FE-35 is $74. A cylinder head for a Rotax 447 is $141. So the real savings comes in maintenance. It is also only about 2/3 the labor charge at most places to have overhaul work done on a 2SI engine. At least that is how I charge. You guys have always been the test pilot for Rotax engines. They are always making little changes to stuff without telling us. Most of the time it's insignificant, but I know for a fact that Rotax has never done any flight testing of any engine besides maybe the certified 912's and that was done more by their distributors than anyone else. Contrary to your beliefs, 2SI does have significant changes or engine mods flight tested before release to the public. There is a prototype of the 460L dual carb now done and ready for first ground tests then flight tests. I am talking with them about doing the flight testing for a dual carb kit and exhaust systems for the 460F-35 and the 430FE-35. It is true there are stories out there about people with problems, but if you dig deep enough you will find that those problems were caused by ignorance or neglect on the part of the operator in most cases. I hear Rotax horror stories every day on the phone, but that does not make Rotax a bad engine. Every engine will have problems if not treated right, and most problems stem from not treating them right. So if you dig a little deeper, you might have a change of heart. I looked into these problem for about a year and a half before I decided to get involved with these engines. At the bottom of all the problems I was satisfied that there was no major fault with the engine. At least not any that could not be solved with competent tech support. Rotax is my bread and butter and what puts food in the mouths of my kids, but I think 2SI really has something in their current engines. I am embarrassed by the prices I have to charge for some Rotax parts at overhaul. It makes me look bad and doesn't make me any more money because my cost is high too. I think if I can save the customer a few dollars with a good product and still make about the same, then it is a good deal for both of us. I think that is possible with the 2SI engines. That doesn't work if the product is no good, but I think the product is a good one in this case. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Carlisle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock > Sorry I see that 2si word being talked about like it is a real option. I actually prefer the power to weight ratios that 2 strokes offer, but I would not fly a 2SI or Hirth. Too many horror stories out there...and too many first hand experiences. The price point really is not a valid argument for the 2SI or Hirth. A comparable engine to Rotax is only slightly less money. Not enough to be a test pilot for the engine manufacturer. The 430FE-35 which I assume is roughly comparable to the Rotax 447 goes for $2713 with gear box as per Tom's web site. We just bought a new 447 last week for $2800 with gearbox. Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
I am glad that you said that. Life aint long enough to learn all the things that other people already know. So good input and advice is apreciated. :-) 8/29/02 8:35Richard Neilsen > > Sorry I see that 2si word being talked about like it is a real option. > As an old timer I remember the 2si when it was sold under another name > "Cyuna". It was a early leader in the untralight engine business when it > was able to run under load for more than 30 minutes without seizing. > Then Rotax started selling engines it disappeared from the market over > night. At one point the company that now sells the 2si had a twin engine > package so that when one engine seized you could limp home on the > remaining engine. They may have fixed their product but one would think > the price would increase if it was as any good. If it sounds too good to > be true, it might be. > > I really don't want to fly a 2 stroke and I will not pay the inflated > cost of a Rotax, Lycoming, or Continental engine. I have been flying VWs > on my Kolb for four years and am getting close to a good alternative to > these high priced engines. I'm in the process of trading my reduction > drive from Gene Smith. I don't know the cost yet (it may be free) but I > will be changing the reduction ratio to a 1.66 to 1 reduction instead of > my 1.6 to one and it will also have .5 inch lower thrust line. My > problem is the prop is a bit too large to get a good speed range. I have > tried lowering the pitch on the prop so that I get 3700 on take off but > then the engine will go over 4300 at high throttle (below red line) but > just too fast and is too busy for my tastes. Last night I flew with a > pitch setting where I was getting 3100 on take off and 3800 WOT at 83MPH > actual. I flew around at 3100RPM on the engine 1937RPM at the prop doing > 73MPH actual. The engine just purred and the noise level was so low that > I shut off the ANR on my head phones and then took them off. It was > still noisy but tolerable about like a Cessna 172. This pitch setting > will be my traveling pitch. The new reduction ratio will at the very > least increase the engine RPMs by 100RPM and hopefully give me better > climb at higher pitch settings. The lowered thrust line will help the > pitch down problem that I get with heaver passengers. I have added > weight to the tail for flying with heavy passengers but I really don't > want to add weight when I'm already heavy. > > Sorry this was so long but that 2 stroke 2si thing got me going. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIII > >>>> CaptainRon(at)theriver.com 08/28/02 11:57PM >>> > > Well 2si is certainly an option. if I recall correctly their max output > is > 70hp. At my summer density altitude of 8000 ft at ground level that > engine > only puts out about 53 Hp. I don't know how well the M3E does on 53 Hp > at > gross weight. Its fairly heavy p/w ratio at 19# per hp. I have flown > worse > but it has never been fun. And this kolb is about fun for me. :-) > I would like to add that if I were at near 0 MSL the 2si would > certainly be > first choice for me. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: Richard Carlisle <rrcarl(at)concentric.net>
> You guys have always been the test pilot for Rotax engines. That's true...Actually that's true of anything that is not certified. There is strength in numbers though, and there are a ton of Rotax engines flying. I went through this debate in my head 2 years ago trying to save money over Rotax. I found that Rotax has the least percentage of failures based on engines sold and generally the happiest customer base. Rotax has proven themselves in the field just based on the number of engines flying and the number of repeat customers. The extra engine cost is nothing compared to putting the plane in the trees because of an engine failure. I know there is no guarantee that a 503 will not burn down, but statistically there is a better chance that one of the others will burn down first. Ross ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ALLENB007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Firestar Enclosure?
Fellow Kolbers, Does Kolb have a full enclosure for the Firestar II? I know the Firefly has one but was not sure about the Firestar. Thanks in advance for your replies, Allen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Firestar Enclosure?
Allen, Yes, they do. The rear is flexable material and attaches with velcro. I didn't know the Firefly had one. John Jung ALLENB007(at)aol.com wrote: > >Fellow Kolbers, > >Does Kolb have a full enclosure for the Firestar II? I know the Firefly has >one but was not sure about the Firestar. > >Thanks in advance for your replies, >Allen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 29, 2002
Subject: Re: Firestar Enclosure?
----- Original Message ----- From: <<A HREF="mailto:ALLENB007(at)aol.com">ALLENB007(at)aol.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Firestar Enclosure? > > Fellow Kolbers, > > Does Kolb have a full enclosure for the Firestar II? I know the Firefly has > one but was not sure about the Firestar. > > Thanks in advance for your replies, > Allen Sure can and the best part it's easy to remove for summer flying. Take a look http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/Camarillo.jpg This is a picture of how it comes right out of the box from Kolb. http://members.aol.com/willuribe/166.jpg Regards, Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
Regarding the gear box, what engine and prop are you running (make, length, number of blades) and what ratio on the gear box. Just curious. jerryb > > > I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never >needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just >ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. >$18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy >making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or >normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? > All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for >inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My >drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A >bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on >the ground > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
I cut the cables using a Dremel tool and abrasive wheel. I wrap the cable at the point I want to cut with 3M blue low adhesive tape. Cut thru the tape and the cable. Seems to slightly melt the ends together and don't fray nearly as easy afterwards using this method. To make the final cuts, get cable pulled taunt, put your ferrules on both if your using two, hold the cable taught with the electricians wire clamps (can't recall their strange name, you know the copper thingy with the slotted bolt and the nut), Nico press the ferrules, check with a gauge. Now trim the cable ends by wrapping a piece of tape around the loose cable end near the ferrule, shove a piece of thin stainless steel about .008 to .015 thick x 2" x 4" (.008 works really good) under the loose end until it stopped by the ferrule. Use the Dremel tool and cut the loose end approx. 1/16"-1/8" from the ferrule. Your done. (If your haven't figured out the stainless steel is used to prevent from nicking or cutting into the taught cable. Don't use aluminum, you can cut thru it to easy, the SS is tuff. Practice on a scrap piece a few times.) You can dab a little paint on the end stub and taught side of the cable as a slippage indicator. If the paint disappears, inspect the ferrules closer for slippage. This method has worked great for us. Jerryb > >Is there any way to price shop for those rotax parts on the Net? > >Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from fraying >before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables >fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. > Any ideas out in Kolb Land? > > >8/28/02 18:00Woody > > > > > > > I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never > > needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just > > ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. > > $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy > > making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or > > normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? > > All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for > > inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My > > drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A > > bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on > > the ground > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
Makes those Kangaroo engines (Jabiru) sound better all the time. jerryb > >Have you priced a new engine lately? Major price increase as of 8/1/02. >I've heard the the 912 had a $2000 price increase. On the other >hand...Rotax parts have always been notoriously high. > >Ross > > > From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net> > > Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:00:24 -0400 > > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock > > > > > > > > I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never > > needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just > > ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. > > $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy > > making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or > > normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? > > All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for > > inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My > > drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A > > bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on > > the ground > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
I think it comes down to how much it will cost you after purchase to kept the Hirth or 2Si running while the Rotax chugs on not to say something can't happen to a Rotax. Those after sale freight, parts, and repair charges add up fast. jerryb > > > > Sorry I see that 2si word being talked about like it is a real option. > >I actually prefer the power to weight ratios that 2 strokes offer, but I >would not fly a 2SI or Hirth. Too many horror stories out there...and too >many first hand experiences. > >The price point really is not a valid argument for the 2SI or Hirth. A >comparable engine to Rotax is only slightly less money. Not enough to be a >test pilot for the engine manufacturer. > >The 430FE-35 which I assume is roughly comparable to the Rotax 447 goes for >$2713 with gear box as per Tom's web site. We just bought a new 447 last >week for $2800 with gearbox. > >Ross > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: 2SI
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Tom, Thanks for the input about 2SI because I recently acquired one to add to my collection of Cuyuna's. I have over 100 hours on the first Cuyuna UL202 and it still is running well . It has the cog belt drive with the 3 blade Warp drive and it seems happy with this combination. Should I be looking at decarboning or more drastic maintenance at this time ( 100 hrs.) on the Cuyuna. When I first started running this engine I had a lot of trouble with jetting the carb because of ignorance and inexperience but once I became educated, it runs fine. I think a lot of Cuyuna stories can be explained by the operator doing his own maintenance and overhauls. I understand Cuyuna support was not very accessible through the country at that time . Besides , this list did not exist nor did the internet...... And I understand many operators of that period did not have EGT's or CHT's to monitor ...I can't imagine trying to run even a Rotax under those handicaps . I am still a new guy in ultralights and I do take advice but I am beginning to think the Cuyuna may have been getting a bit of bad publicity. And thanks to all of the experienced Cuyuna drivers that have helped me with advice and encouragement. Ultrastar Ed in Western NY ( lookout, it's about to blow anytime now ! ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: 2SI
Date: Aug 30, 2002
The UL202 will go a very long time in most cases before you would need to do anything major. As long as you keep fresh gasoline in it and a decent oil the 500 hour teardown is pretty realistic. Of course, if it takes 15 years to get that many hours, you'll probably have to do something sooner. It's just like the Rotax in that respect. A 10 year old engine will need more maintenance per hour than a 3 year old engine. What carb are you running on your UL202? Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Edward Steuber Subject: Kolb-List: 2SI Tom, Thanks for the input about 2SI because I recently acquired one to add to my collection of Cuyuna's. I have over 100 hours on the first Cuyuna UL202 and it still is running well . It has the cog belt drive with the 3 blade Warp drive and it seems happy with this combination. Should I be looking at decarboning or more drastic maintenance at this time ( 100 hrs.) on the Cuyuna. When I first started running this engine I had a lot of trouble with jetting the carb because of ignorance and inexperience but once I became educated, it runs fine. I think a lot of Cuyuna stories can be explained by the operator doing his own maintenance and overhauls. I understand Cuyuna support was not very accessible through the country at that time . Besides , this list did not exist nor did the internet...... And I understand many operators of that period did not have EGT's or CHT's to monitor ...I can't imagine trying to run even a Rotax under those handicaps . I am still a new guy in ultralights and I do take advice but I am beginning to think the Cuyuna may have been getting a bit of bad publicity. And thanks to all of the experienced Cuyuna drivers that have helped me with advice and encouragement. Ultrastar Ed in Western NY ( lookout, it's about to blow anytime now ! ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2002
From: tigermiller(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET
Subject: Kolb flying characteristics
I have noticed here or on some other forum mention of the "different" flying characteristics of the Kolb line. Could someone brief me on what that means. I'm new to UL, have a private license but no medical, and am looking to buy or build something that'll get me off the ground again. Thanks in advance. Dave Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Stroberg" <dgstro(at)albemarlenet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying characteristics
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Hi Dave, I have a FirestarII amphibian and about the only difference I can tell about "flying charastics" is... at cruse, if you chop the power the nose will pitch up. If you firewall it at curse the nose will pitch down. Normal changes in power have very little effect on the pitch. The pitching is due to the high thrust line of the prop and where it's located. Other than that it's one of the most fun things you can get hold of to fly. By the way, mine is for sale. Started a MarkIII project. Fly safe and good luck on finding something. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: <tigermiller(at)ATTGLOBAL.NET> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb flying characteristics > > I have noticed here or on some other forum mention of the "different" > flying characteristics of the Kolb line. Could someone brief me on what > that means. I'm new to UL, have a private license but no medical, and > am looking to buy or build something that'll get me off the ground > again. Thanks in advance. > Dave Miller > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
You seem to have a good method. For the present I am done with the bracing wires. As I mentioned earlier I used a chiesel taping the ends first. I have used two ferrules per wire end. I thought I saw that somewhere in the instructions. I used the Dremel tool with the cutting wheel 2 days ago, but it took too much time. the sharp chiesel technic is really fast and fun. As the wire just snaps off when you hit the chiesel with a sharp blow. I sharpened the chiesel to a knife edge before I started, , and once more half way through. I used the side of a bucking bar as the envil. Did you do your control cable for the elevator and rudder at the same time, or did you waite until the cage came? Oh yes I used shrink tube on the ends of the remaining wire as protection and slippage marker. I don't expect any slippage *ever* on the cable with two ferrules per side. :-) > > I cut the cables using a Dremel tool and abrasive wheel. I wrap the cable > at the point I want to cut with 3M blue low adhesive tape. Cut thru the > tape and the cable. Seems to slightly melt the ends together and don't > fray nearly as easy afterwards using this method. > > To make the final cuts, get cable pulled taunt, put your ferrules on both > if your using two, hold the cable taught with the electricians wire clamps > (can't recall their strange name, you know the copper thingy with the > slotted bolt and the nut), Nico press the ferrules, check with a > gauge. Now trim the cable ends by wrapping a piece of tape around the > loose cable end near the ferrule, shove a piece of thin stainless steel > about .008 to .015 thick x 2" x 4" (.008 works really good) under the loose > end until it stopped by the ferrule. Use the Dremel tool and cut the loose > end approx. 1/16"-1/8" from the ferrule. Your done. (If your haven't > figured out the stainless steel is used to prevent from nicking or cutting > into the taught cable. Don't use aluminum, you can cut thru it to easy, > the SS is tuff. Practice on a scrap piece a few times.) You can dab a > little paint on the end stub and taught side of the cable as a slippage > indicator. If the paint disappears, inspect the ferrules closer for > slippage. This method has worked great for us. > Jerryb > > >> >> Is there any way to price shop for those rotax parts on the Net? >> >> Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from fraying >> before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables >> fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. >> Any ideas out in Kolb Land? >> >> >> 8/28/02 18:00Woody >> >>> >>> >>> I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never >>> needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just >>> ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. >>> $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy >>> making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or >>> normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they want? >>> All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for >>> inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their gearboxes. My >>> drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a problem. A >>> bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on >>> the ground >>> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
Hi, The more informed we are the better - please do cross post relevant info. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
"Engines-Ul(at)Yahoogroups. Com" , "Kolb-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Titanaircraft(at)yahoogroups. com" , "Powerchutes(at)Yahoogroups. Com"
Subject: Rotax 912's Burning Oil?
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Hi guys, Does anyone have a 912 or know someone who has a 912 that is burning oil? How much in how long Engine model and serial #? Let me know. Thanks, Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
We did our rudder cables before covering the cage. If I recall right (boy that was a long time ago 1997) we did the cables for the tail components after they were covered. One thing to watch out for, when you use the Dremel with an abrasive wheel to cut things, be careful to have something to catch the part being cut off so it doesn't land on any fabric. We now have a drain hole on the belly when I was trimming the instrument shock mount studs. Oop's - frown by my partner. jerryb > >You seem to have a good method. For the present I am done with the bracing >wires. As I mentioned earlier I used a chiesel taping the ends first. I have >used two ferrules per wire end. I thought I saw that somewhere in the >instructions. I used the Dremel tool with the cutting wheel 2 days ago, but >it took too much time. the sharp chiesel technic is really fast and fun. As >the wire just snaps off when you hit the chiesel with a sharp blow. I >sharpened the chiesel to a knife edge before I started, , and once more half >way through. I used the side of a bucking bar as the envil. >Did you do your control cable for the elevator and rudder at the same time, >or did you waite until the cage came? >Oh yes I used shrink tube on the ends of the remaining wire as protection >and slippage marker. I don't expect any slippage *ever* on the cable with >two ferrules per side. :-) > > > > > I cut the cables using a Dremel tool and abrasive wheel. I wrap the cable > > at the point I want to cut with 3M blue low adhesive tape. Cut thru the > > tape and the cable. Seems to slightly melt the ends together and don't > > fray nearly as easy afterwards using this method. > > > > To make the final cuts, get cable pulled taunt, put your ferrules on both > > if your using two, hold the cable taught with the electricians wire clamps > > (can't recall their strange name, you know the copper thingy with the > > slotted bolt and the nut), Nico press the ferrules, check with a > > gauge. Now trim the cable ends by wrapping a piece of tape around the > > loose cable end near the ferrule, shove a piece of thin stainless steel > > about .008 to .015 thick x 2" x 4" (.008 works really good) under the loose > > end until it stopped by the ferrule. Use the Dremel tool and cut the loose > > end approx. 1/16"-1/8" from the ferrule. Your done. (If your haven't > > figured out the stainless steel is used to prevent from nicking or cutting > > into the taught cable. Don't use aluminum, you can cut thru it to easy, > > the SS is tuff. Practice on a scrap piece a few times.) You can dab a > > little paint on the end stub and taught side of the cable as a slippage > > indicator. If the paint disappears, inspect the ferrules closer for > > slippage. This method has worked great for us. > > Jerryb > > > > > >> > >> Is there any way to price shop for those rotax parts on the Net? > >> > >> Has anyone figured an easy method of keeping the control cables from > fraying > >> before and after swaging. I had a mizerable time today with those cables > >> fraying, finally I soldered the tip ends so I can run them through. > >> Any ideas out in Kolb Land? > >> > >> > >> 8/28/02 18:00Woody > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> I received my first ever Rotax parts today from Lockwood. I had never > >>> needed parts before and since I needed the parts no matter what I just > >>> ordered them over the phone without asking the price. That was a shock. > >>> $18 for 2 washer halves, $30 for 2 rubber buffers. I don't mind a guy > >>> making a profit but there has to be a limit. Are these high prices or > >>> normal? Got me by the short hairs and think they can squeeze all they > want? > >>> All this talk about de carbonizing engines and small teardowns for > >>> inspections has me wondering if anyone ever checks out their > gearboxes. My > >>> drive system is at 140 hrs and there were no outward signs of a > problem. A > >>> bit of airtime and I would have been a glider pilot. Lucky it happened on > >>> the ground > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com>
Subject: Driving to London
Date: Aug 30, 2002
This is for Florida and South Georgia Kolbers, I am planning to driving from Tallahassee to London for the gathering at the end of September but I dread that long drive. If any of you want to come through Tallahassee or meet on I-75 and share the ride (gas costs) please contact me off line. Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL, FireFly SN 007, 125 Hrs, Mk3/912 in the shop. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sandy Hegyi" <sandyh(at)dccnet.com>
Subject: 1986 twinstar c of g
Date: Aug 30, 2002
> I'm nearing completion on a 1986 twinstar and have a couple of questions regarding weight and balance. Where would the datum line be and what are the c of g limits? Any information would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks Sandy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 29, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: rotax sticker shock
> >I actually prefer the power to weight ratios that 2 strokes offer, but I >would not fly a 2SI or Hirth. Too many horror stories out there...and too >many first hand experiences. Yeah I never heard of a Rotax ever failing. One thing I noticed about 2si is that they recommend a 40/1 oil ratio. Most pilots with them have been running 50/1 like the rotax boys with less than admirable reliability. As always use the manufacturers recommendations in an attempt to get good performance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 30, 2002
Subject: Re: 1986 twinstar c of g
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Well and this is in general. The datum can be anywhere. I would suggest the tip of the nose, as all values measured from there would be positive. As far as Cg limits are, I wouldn't know. 8/30/02 19:10Sandy Hegyi > Where would the datum line be and what are the > c of g limits? Any information would be greatly appreiciated. > > Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: cheep antenna results
Group, After two years of frustration with a radio, I can finally report success. As of last night, I am for the first time, getting reports that I can be heard clearly. What it took was a variation of Boyd's "cheep dipole antenna". In order to keep the antenna mostly verticle, in a Firestar nose cone, it is wraped around a piece of neopreme fuel line. Thanks go mostly to Boyd, but also to Kirk, George and Larry for their help and encourament on this problem. The rubber duck antenna on my Yaesu was useless in a my Rotax powered Firestar. An example of the difference is that with the dipole antenna, I can receive four weather stations instead of just one. John Jung b young wrote: > >there is another way to change the antenna to fit in a >smaller space..... wrap it around a wooden dowell. so it >kind of looks like a spring and tape it there....... i have >not tried this and not sure if you would need it to be >longer or shorter but it should work..... they make ham >radio antennas out of a slinky toy. when installing the >dipole keep the center part of the antena as close to >vertical as possible... that is where the greatest curent >is located.... the ends can go horizontal if needed. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Simple instrument panel
Group, Two years ago, I sold my instrument panel, and replaced it with a new one using an EIS. As regular readers already know, I have been very pleased with the EIS. But until last night, my website still showed the old panel. While doing some aerial photography, last evening, I finally took a picture of the panel. See it on my wed page: http://jrjung.0catch.com/Inflight.html John Jung Firestar II UP of Michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
Date: Aug 31, 2002
If you have never heard of a Rotax failing, you haven't been around very long or have not been listening very carefully. About half of my income comes from Rotax engines failing in flight. The other half is partial failures and just regular preventative maintenance. I used to be in a position to see the majority of warranty claims on Rotax engines as well. I don't know why people accept those failures as normal while pointing fingers at other engines as having problems? I don't care who makes it, a two stroke engine is prone to failure. Even 503's seize pistons, and have crankshafts fail on them with relatively low time. I see it all the time. I think sometimes other engines are somehow held to a higher standard. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Woody Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock Yeah I never heard of a Rotax ever failing. One thing I noticed about 2si is that they recommend a 40/1 oil ratio. Most pilots with them have been running 50/1 like the rotax boys with less than admirable reliability. As always use the manufacturers recommendations in an attempt to get good performance. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: gear box
> >Regarding the gear box, what engine and prop are you running (make, length, >number of blades) and what ratio on the gear box. Just curious. >jerryb I am using a GSC 3 blade wood prop. I would rather have a 2 blade warp. I think it is about 63 dia and I did not figure out the ratio. This is the unit that was being used on the plane when I bought it so I have not thought to change anything. It seems the half washers wore out allowing the cup springs to apply a very strong force to the center race on the bearing. This caused the center race to fail. Hard to check for but if you pull the gearbox cover off and you find a spring force behind it then you can assume it is the half washers that gave up and the internal bearing needs replacing. Has anyone else had this problem? Tom can you enlighten us? I also built a new motor mount last week. It is 2 strips of Aluminum 3 x 13 x 1/4. The motor is bolted to them length wise. Holes are drilled to mount these to the rubber mount Extra holes are drilled for the rubber mounts. My modification allows for moving the motor 1" or 2" toward the tail. Cost nothing and replaces any prop extension I may have wanted to buy. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
> > >If you have never heard of a Rotax failing, you haven't been around very >long or have not been listening very carefully. > >I used to be in a position to see the majority of warranty claims on Rotax >engines as well. I don't know why people accept those failures as normal >while pointing fingers at other engines as having problems? You missed the sarcasm in my last posting. I agree with everything you said in the last post. Every one says all other engines are no good because some one had one once and it failed. I think it is because every Rotax expert out there tells the non Rotax pilots how to adjust their engines. My HIrth runs a head temp that would make a Rotax pilot faint. If I run it to a Rotax temp range it will carbon up and not get full power. A 2si pilot will seize an engine if he uses a 50/1 oil ratio when the mfg. recommends 20% more oil. If anyone knows of a Hirth or 3 cyl. 2si boat anchor some one wants to throw away let me know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: spiral dipole
Date: Aug 31, 2002
John, can we see a picture of that new antenna while your adding things to the web site? sounds like a great variation. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: John Jung dipole
Date: Aug 31, 2002
John, What was the SWR on the antenna? Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: rotax sticker shock
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Ok, I guess I did miss the sarcasm. I've found that I always have to note when I'm being srcastic in my e-mails. I don't think the 40:1 vs 50:1 has as much to do with problems as the prop loading issue. It seems that all the guys that just run them and forget about them are the ones that have thier engines properly loaded. They gues having problems with jetting and tuning are the ones that are loading the 2SI engine at the same RPM as the Rotax and it just does not work. I'll take any Cuyuna or 2SI engine that anyone doesn't want also. Tom Olenik Olenik Aviation -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Woody Subject: RE: Kolb-List: rotax sticker shock > > >If you have never heard of a Rotax failing, you haven't been around very >long or have not been listening very carefully. > >I used to be in a position to see the majority of warranty claims on Rotax >engines as well. I don't know why people accept those failures as normal >while pointing fingers at other engines as having problems? You missed the sarcasm in my last posting. I agree with everything you said in the last post. Every one says all other engines are no good because some one had one once and it failed. I think it is because every Rotax expert out there tells the non Rotax pilots how to adjust their engines. My HIrth runs a head temp that would make a Rotax pilot faint. If I run it to a Rotax temp range it will carbon up and not get full power. A 2si pilot will seize an engine if he uses a 50/1 oil ratio when the mfg. recommends 20% more oil. If anyone knows of a Hirth or 3 cyl. 2si boat anchor some one wants to throw away let me know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying characteristics
> I started flying 37 years ago, have owned 6 other airplanes and U/L's and > can't think of any other flying machine I'd rather have. > (For under 50K) > Richard Pike Richard/Gents: Same here, except I am a late bloomer. Didn't solo until 1968. I fly my Mark III cause it satisfies all my aviating desires. This is good. I won't have to build something else as long as I am happy with Miss P'fer. One comment refer stable aircraft. Homer builds airplanes to squeeze out performance, over designing for stability. My understanding is we lose some performance when we increase stability. That is why we have a straight wing (on a tiny bit of dihedral for aesthetic purposes only). My Mark III is very unstable. I have to fly it all the time. There are short periods when it will fly hands off, but it is not inherently stable. If it was stable I would have a hard time trying to stay awake on long cross countries. :-) A good source informs me that Homer is playing around with an old Firestar and exploring some of the realm of greater dihedral. Maybe I will find out this Fall, if I can squeeze a flight in up Pennsylvania way. How far is Kirk Smith's airstrip from Homer? Kirk, send me the coordinates for your airstrip. Thinking about heading up that way. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
Subject: (no subject)
While extolling the virtues of our Kolb Ultralight's to a fellow aviator, he asked a question that I couldn't answer. Told him I would look it up and get back to him. Haven't been able to find any information in any of the paper work I received from Kolb and no one else seems to know either. The question is -" what is the glide ratio of our Kolbs"? If anyone out there has some information on this I would appreciate an answer. Also for you 447 drivers. Check your muffler mount brackets! I just had to replace one of mine for second time with 160 hr.'s on it. No more aluminum for me, I replaced them all with steel angle. The little bit of weight gain is worth the security of knowing my muffler won't be exiting through the prop. That would tend to ruin my day! Terry K. FireFly #95 - 163 hr.'s ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying characteristics
Date: Aug 31, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <hawk36(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb flying characteristics > > How far is Kirk Smith's airstrip from Homer? Kirk, send me > the coordinates for your airstrip. Thinking about heading > up that way. I'm in Michigan John. But you are sure welcome to stop in. Everybody is. Got 2000 feet of weeds, I even mow sometimes, LOL, lots a room to camp or use the old travel trailer, got tools, vehicle to run to town in, shower, fuel cans ( plastic and metal LOL) , no control tower unless you count the deer blind. GPS 43* 10.8' N 83* 21.1' W ..........9/27 .......look out for deer and turkeys on the runway. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: John Jung dipole
Kirk, I don't have a way to check SWR, so I went without it. If you get up this way, bring you equipment and we can find out. John Jung Kirk Smith wrote: > >John, > What was the SWR on the antenna? Kirk > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: spiral dipole
Topher, I would rather get an antenna analyzer on it or at least more testing done before I offer it as an example. It is basically Boyd's dipole (24 inches of striped coaxial with the center conductor pulled out through the shielding), except it is wrapped around 18 inches of gas line with the unmodified coaxial cable exiting at the middle. The center wire wraps 9 inches one way while the shielding wraps 9 inches the other way. All held together and in place with duct tape. What would we do without duct tape? John Jung Christopher Armstrong wrote: > >John, can we see a picture of that new antenna while your adding things to >the web site? sounds like a great variation. > >Topher > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb flying characteristics
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> A good source informs me that Homer is playing around with > an old Firestar and exploring some of the realm of greater > dihedral. Maybe I will find out this Fall, if I can squeeze > a flight in up Pennsylvania way.> Take care, > > john h John and others, I built my Original Firestar with more dihedral than what is in the plans. Mine has 2-5/8" from level at the last rib and the plans were at 1". Having flown many other Firestars, mine is slightly more stable in roll, but I still have to fly it all the time unless I'm flying in calm conditions or smooth air. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Space Station Supernova
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Hi! I thought you'd be interested in this story from Science@NASA: During the first week of September, the space station will emerge from Earth's shadow just before sunrise over several major US cities, including Washington DC, Philadelphia and San Francisco. The spacecraft, suddenly brightening like a supernova, will be worth waking up to see. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/28aug_sunrise.htm?friend ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Subject: Re: radio range
In a message dated 8/22/02 3:33:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hawk36(at)mindspring.com writes: << Just got back from changing the oil, 100% synthetic Mobil I, in my old 912S. Flew over to the local airport, Wetumpka, to wash it. About 2 miles and 2,000 feet out of my airstrip, I realized that the last thing I should have done, but didn't, was tighten the inlet and outlet oil lines to the oil tank. I had hand tightened them, got out of sequence, and went to something else before I grabbed the wrench and snugged the two collar nuts up. I quickly did a 180, headed for Gantt International Airstrip, with one eye constantly on the oip pressure gauge and the other eye looking for forced landing areas. When I landed both lines were still on, but loose and leaking. I was lucky this time. No matter how long one has been maintaining and flying, there is still room for error. Murphy never rests. Take care, john h >> Don't know for sure, John, but I think this is exactly what happened to Jim Lee at sun n fun when he bought the big one....he turned to try to tighten one of them, which I think actually fell off during take off. He was from Sharon, pa and had built the Kolb for someone whose name started with B and was doing a test flight for his customer down there when it happened...crashed on land near the seaplane place. George Randolph Firestar driver from Akron, O ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Terry, My Original Firestar is has a glide ratio of about 9:1. I do not have the rear cage covered. Would you believe I use 1" x 1/8" aluminum brackets (bought at the hardware store) for the muffler? It all has to do with the amount of stress that is built into the bracket. Before I straightened this problem out, I had cracked muffler brackets after just 20 hours of flying. Eventually the muffler will end up cracking if the stress is not relieved. Had that happen too a number of years back. Those smaller brackets have over 200 hours on them without any cracks. I must have got it right this time. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it > > While extolling the virtues of our Kolb Ultralight's to a fellow > aviator, he > asked a question that I couldn't answer. Told him I would look it > up and > get back to him. Haven't been able to find any information in any > of the > paper work I received from Kolb and no one else seems to know > either. > The question is -" what is the glide ratio of our Kolbs"? If anyone > out > there has some information on this I would appreciate an answer. > > Also for you 447 drivers. Check your muffler mount brackets! I > just had > to replace one of mine for second time with 160 hr.'s on it. No > more > aluminum for me, I replaced them all with steel angle. The little > bit of > weight gain is worth the security of knowing my muffler won't be > exiting > through the prop. That would tend to ruin my day! > > Terry K. FireFly #95 - 163 hr.'s ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: Ken Korenek <ken-foi(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Flight to Plano, TexasBill Wisely ,
Clair Buttons John Hauck wrote: > > Will need MOGAS. John, I can't stand it any more. I've got to know- What is "MOGAS?" Hook, line and sinker Ken ********************* Ken W. Korenek ken-foi(at)attbi.com Kolb FireStar II, "My Mistress" Rotax 503, Oil Injected 3 Blade Powerfin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image003.jpg Six Chuter SR7-XL "Elmo" Powered Parachute Rotax 582, Oil Injected 3 Blade PowerFin http://home.attbi.com/~KolbraPilot/TX_files/image005.jpg 4906 Oak Springs Drive Arlington, Texas 76016 817-572-6832 voice 817-572-6842 fax 817-657-6500 cell 817-483-8054 home ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: mogas
mogas=MOtor GAS vice AViation GAS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: escaped disaster
In a message dated 8/24/02 7:16:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TopGunPI(at)att.net writes: << John H , You are exactly right about the pre-flight on this particular day only , because I don't remember looking at that particular bolt & nut with any scrutiny , However my friend Charles ( who is an ex helicopter mechanic / pilot ) , says he remembers going over that entire tail assembly , the very last time out , which was a testing phase of this whole set - up. As for the original installation , it was done by yours truely , and being a machinist / tool & die maker for some 40 years , I assure you I'm more than qualified , for some of these tasks . The fact remains that , pre-flighted or not , on that day , SOMETHING caused this to happen . That is all that was being conveyed in that e-mail . Homer did a great job, but he has no ability to change physics . If you can fry an egg on a piece of metal heated by the sun , there may well be enough heat to partially melt / soften nylon .Enough said !!! >> But if memory serves me, nylon melts at a very high temperature...if it was truly nylon...about 550 degrees F....George Randolph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: force on horizontal stab
In a message dated 8/25/02 9:44:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TopGunPI(at)att.net writes: << Hi Ted, Now you sound like a very practical pilot , anyone that agreea with ME , must be right , HAAAAA!!!! About your question on up vs down pressure on the tail feathers , it sounds like a decent argument on either side would get your vote . I hope when the hammer dropped you were on the down side !! I would think in an emergency situation , a pilot in comand could bring the bird home with NO attached cables UNDER the horizontal stabalizers , ( before anyone gets on my case , this is only theory , DO NOT , try this at home ) . now that the pot is stiring , I WILL LEAVE THE BUILDING . >> I agree....because of the vectors for control on any well balanced airplane....CG in front, CL (center of lift) behind on the wing....about a third back from the LE causes a moment causing the nose down attitude which requires the force on the horizontal stab to be ....Down! If you are tail heavy, however, I wouldn't give a dime for this argument! A good test would be the answer to the question...."do you have to trim up or down for level flight? such will determine the force on the horizontal stab without trim. George Randolph ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 31, 2002
Subject: Re: force on horizontal stab
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
A real easy test *proving* that down force is the normal force on the horizontal stabilizer is to detach the bottom braces and do a quick 2 feet leap in ground effect. If my contraption was finished I would do it in a heart beat, and in fact would take it around the pattern. There is always down force on the tail, unless one is doing some very quick pitch changes. 8/31/02 21:46GeoR38(at)aol.com > > In a message dated 8/25/02 9:44:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TopGunPI(at)att.net > writes: > > << Hi Ted, > Now you sound like a very practical pilot , anyone that agreea with ME , > must be right , HAAAAA!!!! > > About your question on up vs down pressure on the tail feathers , it > sounds like a decent argument on > either side would get your vote . I hope when the hammer dropped you were on > the down side !! > I would think in an emergency situation , a pilot in comand could bring the > bird home with NO attached cables > UNDER the horizontal stabalizers , ( before anyone gets on my case , this is > only theory , DO NOT , try this > at home ) . now that the pot is stiring , I WILL LEAVE THE BUILDING . >>> > I agree....because of the vectors for control on any well balanced > airplane....CG in front, CL (center of lift) behind on the wing....about a > third back from the LE causes a moment causing the nose down attitude which > requires the force on the horizontal stab to be ....Down! If you are tail > heavy, however, I wouldn't give a dime for this argument! A good test would > be the answer to the question...."do you have to trim up or down for level > flight? such will determine the force on the horizontal stab without trim. > George Randolph > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: TK <tkrolfe(at)epix.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Ralph, Thanks for the reply on the glide ratio!. I imagine it might be less for the FireFly since it has less wingspan and area. Wish I had some data on this. How were you able to relieve the stress on your muffler brackets? Thanks, Terry K. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists...
Dear Listers, I have two programs I run regularly to purge the various Matronics email lists of bad email addresses. I referred to these as my Email Weasels and there is a daily version that is run automatically every night at midnight and there is a and a monthly version that I run by hand at roughly 30-day intervals. The Daily Weasel grinds through the 8 to 10mb of bounced email that is generated each day looking for obvious things like "user unknown", "host unknown", and other things that usually mean the user's email address doesn't exist any longer. The Daily Weasel has been purging 5 to 10 email addresses each night. The Monthly Weasel gets more serious about the task and sends a single message to each list member with specially generated headers and content information. Any bounces or replies to these messages are considered errors and the email address is eligible for purging. This program is particularly useful for "weaseling out" email addresses that are actually being forwarded to by another email address that is subscribed to a List and otherwise would not be identifiable. The Monthly Weasel purges roughly 100 nonexistent email addresses each month when it is run. To check to see if your address has been removed by either of the Email Weasel programs, you can check the Weasel Status Web Page at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If you find your email address on the Weasel List, but are certain that everything is working fine now, simply go the Matronics Subscription page and resubscribe your address. No harm, no foul. The subscription URL is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe That all having been said, I've noticed that the Daily Weasel may have been getting a little too aggressive in purging addresses recently and a number of people have written asking if and why they'd been dropped from the List. A couple of months ago I rewrote the Daily Weasel program to include a wider variety of errors and more aggressively purge. One of the new purge criteria that I added seems to occur a fair amount of the time (Connection Deferred) even though the address is really okay. As of today, I've removed the Connection Deferred criteria from the Daily Weasel Rule set and this should decrease the number of "false positives" and unnecessary unsubscribed. Again, if you get unsubscribed by either of the Email Weasel utilities, simply go to the subscription page and resubscribe: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: Getting Bounced From Matronics Lists...
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Hey Mat considering your skills with comnputers do you also do web pages? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: rotax bullitins
> Whats the Rotax address to go to for the sign up? > > Larry King Laryy/Gang: It was on the stuff you sent back to the Kolb List. :-) http://www.rotax-owner.com You can also download parts, repair, and operators manuals for all the Rotax line here. If not I have another url for that. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: bob n <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Just went flyin'
Friend John, You are a prince among men! And the best to you, Bob N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Just went flyin'
> And the best to you, > > Bob N. Gray Baron/Gents: Darn! Forgot about Bob N. I usually fly right through Winchester, VA, on my flights from Alabama to the NE. Always land and take a break there. All my prior flight up that way in ultralights, which go back to 1988 in the Firestar, I have landed and taken a break at Winchester AP. I didn't Know Bob then, but now I got me a buddy to spend some time with when I am in his AO. Been thinking, just got back from a last light 1.5 hr flight, while I was flying about, "Why not make a real flight out of this one up to London, KY." From London to Winchester to Homer's, then back to Dallas/FW, El Paso, Phoenix; or direct route from PA to AZ. From Phoenix to El Paso to DFW to hauck's holler. If I did that route going to Phoenix, I could claim all that mileage flown to get there and pick up the "guy that flew the furtherest to get to Copper State Fly-In". hehehe Mark III is doing good, as well as the 912S. I am happy when they are happy. Take care, john h PS: Anybody generally along the routes I described let me know if you want to get some lunch or say howdy or whatever. Just day dreaming about this trip now. I have to take someone up to North Georgia and NC to see the Fall leave the first week of October, so that kinda puts the end to a combined flight all over creation and back. However, this is the way these things get started. The 17,400 mile/41 day flight in 1994, started off as a dream, and it came true. DO NOT ARCHVIVE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: How much is too much?
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Due to cross-threading the spark plug, I recently had to replace one of the heads on my Kolb's single-ignition 503. I'd never done it before but the process went fairly smoothly. I ran the engine a bit today (on the ground) including some short taxiing and it felt good, sounded good, and the temp stayed down, so I'm figuring I'm okay so far. However, when I had the head off, the piston did have a black build-up on it, which I assume is carbon. I don't expect it to look factory new, so here's my question to all you engine gurus. How much carbon is too much and how can you tell? Thanks! -Ken Fackler Mark II Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Annual inspection procedures and documentation
Date: Sep 01, 2002
I was wondering if any of you have, and would be willing to share, written procedures or checklists that you follow for you Kolb? I bought this one and got virtually no docs with it, pretty much just the engine manual. Unfortunately, Kolb didn't buy the rights to the Mark II and consequently don't offer any direct support for it. I'd be interested in copies of any Mark II or II or IIIx docs since I'm assuming they'd be most applicable. However, I'd certainly be interested in hearing from or seeing any others as good ideas can come from virtually anywhere. Naturally, I'd prefer email, which saves time and money, but if you have hard copy that you're willing to share, I'd be willing to reimburse you for copy and postage costs. -Ken Fackler Mark II Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Gear box lube
Date: Sep 01, 2002
There's a fellow at my airport who's just recently put a Firefly up. It seems to fly pretty well. The other night when he landed for the last time, I was working on my Mark II and decided to take a break for a chat. When I walked up, I placed my hand on his propellor hub spacer, the thing just after of the gear box. It seemed quite warm, which led me to wonder about the gear box itself. While it wasn't hot enough to burn you instantly, like a muffler, it was uncomfortably hot. When I inquired about lube, he showed me that he was using a synthetic. Is it "normal" for the gear box to heat up and, if so, how much? Does anyone here have any thoughts about this guy's use of a synthetic? -Ken Fackler Mark II Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Hangar rash fixes
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Dear Kolbers: I have a minor scuff on the leading edge, just left of the gap seal. It's about an inch and half long and perhaps a quarter inch wide. It's not bad, but it's unsightly. May I request any recommendations for a good tape product to use on this? -Ken Fackler Mark II Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SGreenpg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: How much is too much?
In a message dated 9/1/02 9:26:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kfackler(at)ameritech.net writes: > How much carbon is too much and > how can you tell? > > Thanks! > > -Ken Fackler > Mark II > Ken, If I remember correctly the manual says 0.5mm which is about .020". To check you can clean a spot the width of a feeler gauge and lay the 0.020" feeler gauge in the cleaned area then lay a straight edge on the feeler gauge at the edge and compare to the thickness of the carbon. This can be done through the exhaust port on a 582 with a little patients. Steven G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: muffler stress
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > Ralph, > > Thanks for the reply on the glide ratio!. I imagine it might be > less for > the FireFly since it has less wingspan and area. Wish I had some > data on this. > > How were you able to relieve the stress on your muffler brackets? > > Thanks, Terry K. Terry, The Firefly glide ratio would be smaller. For the muffler brackets, all you have to do is bolt down the two brackets that bolt into the head spacers with the muffler attached to the manifold and springs in place. Look to see exactly where the two 3/4" muffler holes would go into the side of the bracket that attaches to the first two (this is the bracket that is parallel to the side of the muffler). Mark the holes in that side bracket. Drill out the 3/4" holes for the muffler rubber donut, remembering that accuracy will relieve the stress if the holes in the muffler and side bracket are aligned. I hope this made some sense ...... Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: 582 start up, oil purge
The gear box is back together now. I am ready to try a start up again. How do I insure that there is adequate oil to start? Is there a purge procedure for the oil pump. I have 100/1 oil mix ( not synthetic) in the gas tank to help out. I sure want to try it out tomorrow (Monday). All advice appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: Gear box lube
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Ken, I use synthetic gear oil in my gearbox and noticed that it runs cooler than the usual heavy duty gear oil. You might ask this guy what type of synthetic oil he is using. I hope he's not using synthetic motor oil. That might explain the heat problem. Normally after a long flight, the gearbox will get hot on either mineral or synthetic gear oil, but it should not be too hot to the touch. I'm referring to the A and B gearboxes only. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > There's a fellow at my airport who's just recently put a Firefly up. > It > seems to fly pretty well. The other night when he landed for the > last time, > I was working on my Mark II and decided to take a break for a chat. > When I > walked up, I placed my hand on his propellor hub spacer, the thing > just > after of the gear box. It seemed quite warm, which led me to wonder > about > the gear box itself. While it wasn't hot enough to burn you > instantly, like > a muffler, it was uncomfortably hot. When I inquired about lube, he > showed > me that he was using a synthetic. > > Is it "normal" for the gear box to heat up and, if so, how much? > > Does anyone here have any thoughts about this guy's use of a > synthetic? > > -Ken Fackler > Mark II > Rochester MI > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: 2SI
In a message dated 8/29/02 11:52:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smald(at)shianet.org writes: << Use a small piece of thin tape and wrap the cable before cutting, be sure it is not under your swedge. >>I would like to add that if I were at near 0 MSL the 2si would certainly be >>first choice for me. If you haven't, do an archive search on 2SI before you get your wallet out! Darren, FSI, 2702 Hirth, Central MI. >> A lot of the stuff about 2SI is OLD....but the engine is different now....and ....I suspect that a lot of the OLD stuff was caused by abuse. I had one on my pterodactyl back in '83 to 90 and had good luck with it in spite of my exhaust resonator on it .....Boo for me...part of the abuse bit I was talking about. Another abuse thing was the early ULs which used Cuyuna's didn't have EGT's. Mine certainly didn't! So how was I to know about loading and the difference between lean and rich?? About hot and cold exhaust!!?? Just like everyone else, I overheated the engine and would actually cause a freezeup. I did it twice and made a quick decision about Cuyunna, when in reality, I should have been evaluating myself. A fella by the name of Bob Morrison told me a lotta stuff that was true about them, but if you don't have an egt, there is no way to monitor them...or any other engine for that matter. Knowing what I know now, I look back on the Cuyunna days fondly and am amazed that it performed as well as it did in hot or cold, rain or snow. And that was with a belt drive to boot!! George Randolph Firestar driver from Akron Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In a message dated 8/31/02 11:48:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tkrolfe(at)epix.net writes: << While extolling the virtues of our Kolb Ultralight's to a fellow aviator, he asked a question that I couldn't answer. Told him I would look it up and get back to him. Haven't been able to find any information in any of the paper work I received from Kolb and no one else seems to know either. The question is -" what is the glide ratio of our Kolbs"? If anyone out there has some information on this I would appreciate an answer. >> my measured L/D is 9.5 to 1 (during engine idle) George Randolph KX firestar driver from Akron, Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: 582 start up, oil purge
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Woody, If you have purged the air from the inlet to the pump with the screw at the top of the pump then the next thing to do is to remove one sparkplug per cyl and crank the engine with the airfilters removed at WOT(wide open trottle) for 10 seconds and look through the carbs into the intake bore where the oil lines are connected and observe oil coming out of both ports. Continue cranking untill you see oil coming from both lines before starting the engine. The extra oil in the gas is insurance for the next couple of hours to allow all air to be purged from the injection system. Frank Reynen MKIII 706 hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> Subject: Kolb-List: 582 start up, oil purge > > > The gear box is back together now. I am ready to try a start up again. > How do I insure that there is adequate oil to start? Is there a purge > procedure for the oil pump. I have 100/1 oil mix ( not synthetic) in the > gas tank to help out. I sure want to try it out tomorrow (Monday). All > advice appreciated. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 01, 2002
Subject: Re: Gear box lube
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Well i would want to know the ambiant temp before I would think/suspect a problem. Ambiant temp has a lot to do with heat dissipation. If it was 85f and the box was 145f. Then I would swag that this would be normal. In other words was the gear box warmer than the rest of the engine? 9/1/02 19:25ul15rhb(at)juno.com > Normally after a long flight, the gearbox will get hot on either mineral > or synthetic gear oil, but it should not be too hot to the touch. > > I'm referring to the A and B gearboxes only. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Sep 02, 2002
George What is your IAS when flying your best L/D? Jim Ballenger FS KXP 447 Virginia Beach, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: (no subject) > > In a message dated 8/31/02 11:48:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > tkrolfe(at)epix.net writes: > > << > While extolling the virtues of our Kolb Ultralight's to a fellow aviator, he > asked a question that I couldn't answer. Told him I would look it up and > get back to him. Haven't been able to find any information in any of the > paper work I received from Kolb and no one else seems to know either. > The question is -" what is the glide ratio of our Kolbs"? If anyone out > there has some information on this I would appreciate an answer. > >> > my measured L/D is 9.5 to 1 (during engine idle) > George Randolph > KX firestar driver from Akron, Oh > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
Subject: 2SI
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Hey George, What happened to your Cuyuna and pterodactyl and cuyuna? Do you know? I have the engine from a wrecked one that came from Bob Morrison's place several years ago. Tom Olenik in NE Ohio Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of GeoR38(at)aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: 2SI In a message dated 8/29/02 11:52:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smald(at)shianet.org writes: << Use a small piece of thin tape and wrap the cable before cutting, be sure it is not under your swedge. >>I would like to add that if I were at near 0 MSL the 2si would certainly be >>first choice for me. If you haven't, do an archive search on 2SI before you get your wallet out! Darren, FSI, 2702 Hirth, Central MI. >> A lot of the stuff about 2SI is OLD....but the engine is different now....and ....I suspect that a lot of the OLD stuff was caused by abuse. I had one on my pterodactyl back in '83 to 90 and had good luck with it in spite of my exhaust resonator on it .....Boo for me...part of the abuse bit I was talking about. Another abuse thing was the early ULs which used Cuyuna's didn't have EGT's. Mine certainly didn't! So how was I to know about loading and the difference between lean and rich?? About hot and cold exhaust!!?? Just like everyone else, I overheated the engine and would actually cause a freezeup. I did it twice and made a quick decision about Cuyunna, when in reality, I should have been evaluating myself. A fella by the name of Bob Morrison told me a lotta stuff that was true about them, but if you don't have an egt, there is no way to monitor them...or any other engine for that matter. Knowing what I know now, I look back on the Cuyunna days fondly and am amazed that it performed as well as it did in hot or cold, rain or snow. And that was with a belt drive to boot!! George Randolph Firestar driver from Akron Oh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
From: Duncan McBride <duncanmcbride(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mark III airspeeds
I'm about to finish up the little things and get the Mark III ready for inspection. I need to mark the airspeed indicator with green and red arcs for the normal operating range and redline. I was going to put the redline at 100mph, and run the green from 100 down to 42 or so for the estimated flaps up stall speed. Is there a need for a yellow arc somewhere in the red and green? Also is there a maximum speed for deploying the flaps, or can I put the white arc all the way up to 100mph? Finally, how do you mark the little metal placard with the id number and other stuff? I was going to call trophy shops tomorrow - is that the way to go? Thanks in advance By the way, there was some discussion a few weeks ago about the use of castle nuts and cotters on bolts that are used as pivots - on the elevator and rudder control horns and such. My EAA tech counselor told me the DARs around here would call me on it, so I'm going to change them out. I've seen nylocs on control horns stay tight for years and years, but if that's what they want, I'm castellating... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mark III airspeeds
I need to mark the airspeed indicator with green and red arcs for the normal operating range and redline. Duncan McBride Hi Duncan/Gang: Here is how I did my Mark III: 100 mph Red Line 80 to 100 mph Yellow Arc (Clean Air) 40 to 80 Green Arc 35 to 60 White (Flap deployment) Didn't do a good job on my placard, but engraved with an el cheapo electric vibrator engraver. Got me through inspection. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Gear box lube
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Captain Ron, Yes ambient temps do play a part in heat dissipation of the gearbox, but since I ran mineral gear oil for many years, I know when the gearbox is running cooler and other pilots have noticed a difference too in their own machines. As I always say, "Do what works for you, it's your engine". I can also say that I am running an "all-synthetic" engine and it is doing quite well actually. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > Well i would want to know the ambiant temp before I would > think/suspect a > problem. Ambiant temp has a lot to do with heat dissipation. If it > was 85f > and the box was 145f. Then I would swag that this would be normal. > In other > words was the gear box warmer than the rest of the engine? > > > 9/1/02 19:25ul15rhb(at)juno.com > > > Normally after a long flight, the gearbox will get hot on either > mineral > > or synthetic gear oil, but it should not be too hot to the touch. > > > > I'm referring to the A and B gearboxes only. > > > > > messages. > > ================================== > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: glide ratio
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > > George > What is your IAS when flying your best L/D? > Jim Ballenger > FS KXP 447 > Virginia Beach, VA On the Original Firestar the best L/D glide is at 38mph. I have an open cockpit with the glide ratio at 9:1, and this was with the engine idling. The L/D would improve slightly under dead-stick conditions. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Mark III airspeeds
The placard I used on my fuselage tube was very thin aluminum and self adhesive. It is so thin I typed the numbers with a regular type writer and it looks like the numbers were stamped on. I purchased the placard from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co . Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ > Finally, how do you mark the little metal placard with the id number and other stuff? I was going to call trophy shops tomorrow - is that the way to go? Thanks in advance ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: More Dihedral
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > > My FSII isn't flying yet... but I put a little extra dihedral in my > wings for stability too... > Glad to hear I'm not alone, I've been wondering if its going to > SLOW my cruise slightly. > Oh well, I'd rather have it more stable. > > Gotta Fly... > > Mike No Mike, the added dihedral will not slow down your cruise speed at all. Technically, it should raise the stall speed slightly. By the way, more dihedral in the wings makes the Firestar look a little better too. I might add that my Firestar cruises a little faster than most (65mph because I left the rear cage uncovered - no parachute effect from the open cockpit), and the added weight of the auxiliary fuel tanks ahead of the cg. For more info on why the added weight makes it fly faster, go to the archives under "nose heavy Firestar". Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident.
> Is there any reason why the solid rod type cables like those used on > outboard motor controls are not used on our Kolbs? No chance of kinking a > cable with them as the cable does not come out of the housing. Only a solid > rod. > Ron Payne Ron/Gents: I have no problem with the current set up. We have been using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, 1984. I have seen the throttle cable kink on other Kolb aircraft. Primary reason is incorrect installation in the first place. Also could be weak carb piston spring(s), dry cable (no lube), attempting to put too much bend in the cable housing, etc. On dual carb setukps with combiners/connectors, could be binding in here because of lack of lube, corrosion, snags in the housing, etc. I am guessing, but here's why Homer Kolb went with the current set up: 1. Cost 2. Weight 3. The Bing/Mikuni carbs only need a one-way pull. Marine control cable are designed for push/pull. I am a boater and vaguely familiar of marine control cables. Commonly called Morse Cables, they use a semi rigid housing and a hard single wire (not necessarily a cable). From experience with boats, these also break. Good luck on your search for the perfect throttle cable/setup. Do it the way you like. That is the option available to builders of home built aircraft. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net>
Subject: Route plan
Date: Sep 02, 2002
I am new to ultralight. I hold a commercial license and have 2000 hours (mostly military) but have not flown in some time. I started looking into flying recently and have had trouble getting started. When I say I want to do so I am told (reasonably) to get a medical first. But I have had open heart surgery and a stroke. These are not as bad as you would assume. You wouldn't know it if you saw me. But the first medical examiner with whom I spoke said no. (There are exceptions for those pre-conditions but I haven't followed up on that yet.) Instead it occurs to me that ultras sound good and should avoid all that bumf. So I'm starting a serious look at them. I'll be glad to listen to anyone with any advice but in particular I'm planning a research trip and here is my itinerary. Is there kit builder in the general area I have missed? Carlson, East Palestine, Ohio, CGS Broadview Heights, Ohio; New Kolb Aircraft, London, KY; Titan Aircraft,1419 State Rt. 45 S.,Austinburg Oh. 44041; My trip is by car and obviously includes Tenn, Ky, and Ohio. Pa would be good too. Kevin Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident.
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Hi Lar just came back from your web site. I particularly looked at Building Wings. As I am done with the tail I have just started on the wings. I noticed that you placed your wings on a table. Is there any reason that a wing cannot be built between two stands? This is how i have set up my spar. I have done nothing yet except alodine the spar. So if there is a compelling reason not to build it free standing as I have, please let me know. Ron (FHU) 9/2/02 8:26Larry Bourne "Building Vamoose. You'll have to hand > make the hook-ups, but that's not too difficult. Gogittum Lar. > > Larry Bourne > Palm Springs, Ca. > Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose" > http://www.gogittum.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: glide ratio
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Ralph Thanks for the info. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> Subject: Kolb-List: glide ratio > > > writes: > > > > > > George > > What is your IAS when flying your best L/D? > > Jim Ballenger > > FS KXP 447 > > Virginia Beach, VA > > On the Original Firestar the best L/D glide is at 38mph. I have an open > cockpit with the glide ratio at 9:1, and this was with the engine idling. > The L/D would improve slightly under dead-stick conditions. > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar > 15 years flying it > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Throttle cable kink
I forgot to mention I also replaced the piston cable splitter because it got some sand in it and couldn't throttle up to full RPMs. Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ I had the same thing happen to me, also replaced the cable. After firing up the engine I couldn't throttle back. Take a look http://members.aol.com/cesaru/KolbFSII/259.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident. > I have seen the throttle cable kink on other Kolb aircraft. > Primary reason is incorrect installation in the first > place. Also could be weak carb piston spring(s), dry cable > (no lube), attempting to put too much bend in the cable > housing, etc. On dual carb setukps with > combiners/connectors, could be binding in here because of > lack of lube, corrosion, snags in the housing, etc. > > I am guessing, but here's why Homer Kolb went with the > current set up: > > 1. Cost > 2. Weight > 3. The Bing/Mikuni carbs only need a one-way pull. Marine > control cable are designed for push/pull. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
I would like to see if there are any particular stall characteristics for the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a break during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on dihederal very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a need to dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me to do it. As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference between the angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame sharp stall breaks. 9/2/02 8:42John Hauck > I have no problem with the current set up. We have been > using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, > 1984. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident.
Date: Sep 02, 2002
You missed out on a big controversy over that a while back. Both methods work well, and adherents of each method wouldn't do it any other way. The archives must be full of pro's and con's. I like the big table to keep everything solid and square, put tools on, and crawl around on, etc, for the whole building process - not just the wings. Others prefer the sawhorse method for the easier movement around it, under it, thru it, etc. I & archives don't work together very well, so I can't tell you where to look, but I'm sure some of those on the List can point you at the right threads, so you can make up your own mind. I have a couple of full size pics of the push/pull throttle hook-up I made, and sent them directly to Ron, since, for some reason, I can't Photoshare. Hafta find out about that, but meantime, if people are interested, Ron could Photoshare them for me. (???????) One of the pics also shows the left side throttle lever I built. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, Ca. Kolb Mk III - " Vamoose"
http://www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident. > > Hi Lar just came back from your web site. I particularly looked at Building > Wings. As I am done with the tail I have just started on the wings. I > noticed that you placed your wings on a table. Is there any reason that a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
Ron/Gang: I haven't found the "sharp" stall break on any Kolb. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I think Homer did an excellent job designing the airfoil and the Kolb wing. No requirement for improvements in this area. If someone doesn't like what this wing does, they need to build another make airplane. This is a super STOL wing. That is what Kolbs do best. Not a high speed aircraft. Can't have it all, STOL and high speed. Me anyhow. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: L/D
In a message dated 9/2/02 6:22:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ulpilot(at)cavtel.net writes: << George What is your IAS when flying your best L/D? Jim Ballenger FS KXP 447 Virginia Beach, VA >> my IAS is 40 now that I weigh 220, but it was 37 when I was 25 # lighter....I tried faster and slower in all cases and 37 - 40 seemed to get me the farthest with the least drop....but my engine was always idling....I have a 3 blade IVO pitched to give max rpm of 6600 RPM on climb....seems to give the best results for combination of cruise and climb....I have pitched it so much that I almost didn't clear the trees after 2000 ft. Of course if I could get enough altitude my speed would have been way up there.....I think. Best and USUAL L/D is always around 9-9.5 for me. George Randolph KX Firestar driver from Akron Ohio the ol glider pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:Bob Morrison
In a message dated 9/2/02 9:19:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com writes: << Hey George, What happened to your Cuyuna and pterodactyl and cuyuna? Do you know? I have the engine from a wrecked one that came from Bob Morrison's place several years ago. Tom Olenik in NE Ohio Olenik Aviation http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm >> I sold the whole shebang to a fella from Maryland for $2600 back in'90. My whole purpose was to upgrade to the UL of my choice considering that Bob went through his divorce and I might have lost my hangar space so I went for the best fold feature in the industry with my Kolb purchase in '91. I think that wreck you got was owned by 2 guys that wanted to fly but didn't want to learn at the direction of someone else....I never met them but every time they flew it (I think they took turns) they would bend or break something until one of them finally broke more than the pterodactyl, namely his leg....they gave up after that. I never met them, but I would always see their "effort" up agin the wall at the side of the hangar. There was a Chinook and a Rotex? around there also. George Randolph I'm the guy who started in UL because of Bob Morrison and his mall show in '81. dunno where he is now....great guy...LOVES flying...may be in Florida...dunno bout Betty n the kids either....great gal....sad story. KX Firestar driver from Akron Oh.....bob was first to fly my Kolb....what a great story that is!! I learned a LOT!!....and he suffered a bit...but only mentally ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Route plan
In a message dated 9/2/02 12:14:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kevin-jones(at)snet.net writes: << Instead it occurs to me that ultras sound good and should avoid all that bumf. So I'm starting a serious look at them. I'll be glad to listen to anyone with any advice but in particular I'm planning a research trip and here is my itinerary. Is there kit builder in the general area I have missed? Carlson, East Palestine, Ohio, CGS Broadview Heights, Ohio; New Kolb Aircraft, London, KY; Titan Aircraft,1419 State Rt. 45 S.,Austinburg Oh. 44041; My trip is by car and obviously includes Tenn, Ky, and Ohio. Pa would be good too. Kevin Jones >> They are all around me and are all great companies. I almost picked a CGS because of proximity but I wanted wing fold. Also the position of the engine is lower and almost in the cockpit with my ....head! That's an obvious concern but the noise is another and the size of the CGS prop is limited...hence no Kolb climb. The Titan is a beautiful plane made by the people who started out building CGS. My only concern there is price and short chord between wing and tail. Kolb is much longer and therefore more forgiving in pitch. I have had floppydos in my pterodactly that almost put me upsidedown due to vortex of ANOTHER UL OR TREELINE!! I have always been impressed with Carlson who just died as a result of testing his new Storch...but I have much respect for his ideas...which were many. And his construction techniques were formidable...very professional looking to me. But no wing fold, as I recall. They all fly, but the "little things" mean a lot (geez, maybe I'll write a song) and after 10 years I still don't covet another as I did with my pterodactyl. George Randolph ol glider pilot from Akron, Ohio KX Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
In a message dated 9/2/02 12:33:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaptainRon(at)theriver.com writes: << I would like to see if there are any particular stall characteristics for the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a break during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on dihederal very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a need to dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me to do it. As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference between the angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame sharp stall breaks. 9/2/02 8:42John Hauck > I have no problem with the current set up. We have been > using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, > 1984. >> If I had my druthers, I would put a little washout in my wings as the pterodactyl had, but it is a major design change and may not be a good idea. The stall of the Kolb is almost as forgiving as the pterodactyl which had loads of washout but it was really just a flying wing and maybe required it for stability....dunno....just a thought. George Randolph firestar driver from Akron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
Date: Sep 02, 2002
I would like to see if there are any particular stall characteristics for the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a break during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on dihederal very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a need to dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me to do it. As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference between the angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame sharp stall breaks. CaptainRon, Washout is needed on tapered wings and high aspect ratio wings...not low aspect ratio wings like our Kolbs. The washout in a wing actually degrades performance because a airfoil only has 1 angle of attack where it is "MOST" efficient. When the wing is twisted you can NEVER get the whole wing at the most efficient angle. The low aspect ratio wing will always stall inboard end first due to the wingtip vortices actually rolling back over the rear-outboard section of the wing and keeping it "working". Topher can surely explain the particulars. Anyway, it is something not to be trifled with unless you have the know-how and a reason. And unless the reason is to degrade the performance of the Kolb, I'd suggest leaving it alone... Just my $.02 worth... Jeremy Casey jrcasey(at)ldl.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: L/D
Date: Sep 02, 2002
George Thanks for the info. It fits nicely with what Ralph emailed. I will keep it in mind when the engine goes dead. It happened last year to me coming back from a fly in. I was at 2000' AGL and 10 miles from my base airport. Fortunately for me, Al Carpenter trained me well in the late 80's in the art of ultralight flying as I picked my spot and flew the plane just like he taught me. I used 45 mph IAS then and noticed with a still prop my glide was alot longer. The only damage was minor scrape to the nose cone belly and a bent pitot tube. Jim Ballenger FS KXP 447 Virginia Beach, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com> Subject: Kolb-List: L/D > > In a message dated 9/2/02 6:22:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > ulpilot(at)cavtel.net writes: > > << George > What is your IAS when flying your best L/D? > Jim Ballenger > FS KXP 447 > Virginia Beach, VA >> > my IAS is 40 now that I weigh 220, but it was 37 when I was 25 # lighter....I > tried faster and slower in all cases and 37 - 40 seemed to get me the > farthest with the least drop....but my engine was always idling....I have a 3 > blade IVO pitched to give max rpm of 6600 RPM on climb....seems to give the > best results for combination of cruise and climb....I have pitched it so much > that I almost didn't clear the trees after 2000 ft. Of course if I could get > enough altitude my speed would have been way up there.....I think. Best and > USUAL L/D is always around 9-9.5 for me. > > George Randolph > KX Firestar driver from Akron Ohio > the ol glider pilot > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Williamson" <jawmson(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Annual inspection procedures and documentation
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Hi Ken, The attachment is a Word document I got from the EAA website and modified for my use on the Kolbra. If you can open it, I can send it in webpage format. John Williamson Arlington, TX N49KK, Kolb Kolbra, Jabiru 2200, 54 hours. http://home.attbi.com/~kolbrapilot/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" <bbrocious(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: battery box
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Kolbers, I'm nearing completion of my Mark III. I've got to find a way to secure the battery behind the passenger seat. Can I just use an old motorcycle battery box? Bob Bob, Kathleen, and Kory BrociousTenacity Farm Campbellsburg, Kentucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: Route plan
Kevin, You may want to consider the Kolb FireFly which is a legal ultralight, or look into a future Sport Pilot License. (http://www.sportpilot.org/). I believe that no medical will be necessary, except what is needed for a drivers license. John Jung Kevin Jones wrote: > > I am new to ultralights. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Database & Stall Characteristics.
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Don't for get about the database located at http://www.springeraviation.net/ for a list of builders and flyers willing to share information. As for stalling, I mentioned a few months ago how my Firestar II rolls to level during a banking stall, both directions, even with some rudder in the direction of the turn! The wings are perfectly flat. Thanks Homer... Kip Firestar II Atlanta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics. > > > I would like to see if there are any particular stall characteristics > for > the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a break > during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on > dihederal > very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a need > to > dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me to do > it. > As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference between > the > angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame > sharp > stall breaks. > > > > > CaptainRon, > > Washout is needed on tapered wings and high aspect ratio wings...not low > aspect ratio wings like our Kolbs. The washout in a wing actually > degrades performance because a airfoil only has 1 angle of attack where > it is "MOST" efficient. When the wing is twisted you can NEVER get the > whole wing at the most efficient angle. The low aspect ratio wing will > always stall inboard end first due to the wingtip vortices actually > rolling back over the rear-outboard section of the wing and keeping it > "working". Topher can surely explain the particulars. Anyway, it is > something not to be trifled with unless you have the know-how and a > reason. And unless the reason is to degrade the performance of the > Kolb, I'd suggest leaving it alone... > > Just my $.02 worth... > > Jeremy Casey > jrcasey(at)ldl.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Captain Ron, The Kolbs have a rectangular wing that stalls in the center before the tip stalls. This is a good thing because there is a natural stall warning sound built into the wing. Just before the stall begins, the air ahead of the engine becomes detached and the turbulence makes a 'burble' sound in the prop. This is the stall warning. If you ignore this sound, the nose will fall over and the plane will begin flying again if the stick is held neutral or more forward. It may drop about 50 feet. If the wing has a tendency to roll (not hands off), it may fall off in that direction during the stall. There is no need to build washout into the wings. Build them as flat as you can and things will be fine. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > I would like to see if there are any particular stall > characteristics for > the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a > break > during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on > dihederal > very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a > need to > dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me > to do it. > As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference > between the > angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame > sharp > stall breaks. > > > 9/2/02 8:42John Hauck > > > I have no problem with the current set up. We have been > > using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, > > 1984. > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kolb stalls
Date: Sep 03, 2002
All three of my Kolbs stalled very gently then went right back to flying. One other characteristic that should be pointed out is mushing with loss of altitude while flying near the critical angle of attack. I was amazed to see my ROC showing a 500'/min loss of altitude during stall testing of my FireFly. She had no tendency to do a tail slid but she sure was in a deep mush. This is why we land at a speed well above stall if you have power and be sure to keep enough glide speed to prevent mushing if you have to land without power. Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL FireFly SN 007, Mk3/912 in the workshop (while I finish moving into a new home, jeez what a job!). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 flight incident.
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Well like you I went to the archive a few days ago to look for something, and got lost in there reading things that had nothing to do with what I wanted to see. Got so confused that i forgot what I was there to begin with, still can't remember a damm thing. :-) Boy I gotta give it to you building your craft within those narrow confines. Hats off. :-) 9/2/02 9:38Larry Bourne > > You missed out on a big controversy over that a while back. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Thanks for the answere, placing just a slight bit of a washout should not degrade much if anything in terms of performance, but would improve stall substuntially, at least thats the theory. There is a slight loss of average lift by the reduced angle of incidence but can easily compansated by increasing the angle of attack which is at the pilot's discretion, if one needs a bit more climb. It should however guarantee an inboard stall first, and thus a very benign stall break or just a mush. Well I have not decided what to do yet. As I have a few differing opinions. Life aint simple. :-) 9/2/02 13:00GeoR38(at)aol.com > > In a message dated 9/2/02 12:33:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > CaptainRon(at)theriver.com writes: > > << > I would like to see if there are any particular stall characteristics for > the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a break > during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on dihederal > very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a need to > dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me to do it. > As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference between the > angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame sharp > stall breaks. > > > 9/2/02 8:42John Hauck > >> I have no problem with the current set up. We have been >> using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, >> 1984. > >>> > If I had my druthers, I would put a little washout in my wings as the > pterodactyl had, but it is a major design change and may not be a good idea. > The stall of the Kolb is almost as forgiving as the pterodactyl which had > loads of washout but it was really just a flying wing and maybe required it > for stability....dunno....just a thought. > > George Randolph > firestar driver from Akron > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 02, 2002
Subject: Re: Kolb Mk 111 stall characteristics.
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Thank you exactly the answere I needed. I figured if I needed to I could play a bit with that. :-) But if its fine then its better to just leave it alone,, on this first one anyway. I have already decided and bought the material to build me another set of Horizontal stabilizers while I waite for kit 2 to arrive. These ones will be all metal and mostly bonded. Just figured it would be more cactus/brush resistant out here. My best estimate indicates that they will be only a 1/4 pound heavier per wing. 9/2/02 18:43ul15rhb(at)juno.com > > Captain Ron, > > The Kolbs have a rectangular wing that stalls in the center before the > tip stalls. This is a good thing because there is a natural stall warning > sound built into the wing. Just before the stall begins, the air ahead of > the engine becomes detached and the turbulence makes a 'burble' sound in > the prop. This is the stall warning. If you ignore this sound, the nose > will fall over and the plane will begin flying again if the stick is held > neutral or more forward. It may drop about 50 feet. If the wing has a > tendency to roll (not hands off), it may fall off in that direction > during the stall. > > There is no need to build washout into the wings. Build them as flat as > you can and things will be fine. > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar > 15 years flying it > > > writes: >> >> >> I would like to see if there are any particular stall >> characteristics for >> the larger Kolbs. In particular I would like to know if there is a >> break >> during a stall to one side or the other. I find the discussion on >> dihederal >> very interesting, which in turn made me wonder if there should be a >> need to >> dial in some washout on the wings. This is the perfect time for me >> to do it. >> As I am just about to start. A wash out is a slight difference >> between the >> angle of incidence at the wing root and tip. Normally needed to tame >> sharp >> stall breaks. >> >> >> 9/2/02 8:42John Hauck >> >>> I have no problem with the current set up. We have been >>> using it since the beginning. For me, in the Ultrastar, >>> 1984. >> >> >> >> >> messages. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: 582 start up, oil purge
> >Woody, >If you have purged the air from the inlet Thanks Frank. I was able to taxi a bit last night. The engine started right up and ran great. Unfortunately the air speed and egt did not work. I also had a flat tire 1000 ft down the runway. Kolbs sure get heavy after awhile. A couple small repairs and I may even get this bird in the air. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" <bbrocious(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: battery box
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Gents, I'm finishing up my Mark III after wresting with a needed correction on the right wing. There are two things I would appreciate some suggestions on. I'm working on anchoring the battery down. Can I just use a motorcycle battery box or is there something else that would do? The other issue is, the previous builder had attached the rear of the sling seat to the cross member with well-tied rope. This made it pretty much impossible to do an adequate preflight to check the turnbuckles and cable ends for the elevator and rudder. Is there something you use that allows you to open and close that section and still provide good support for the back of the sling? Bob 98% Mark III, "Miss B" (N57MB) Bob, Kathleen, and Kory BrociousTenacity Farm Campbellsburg, Kentucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: battery box
Why not? As long as "secure" is the operative word... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Dp Not Archive > > Kolbers, > I'm nearing completion of my Mark III. I've got to find a way to secure the > battery behind the passenger seat. Can I just use an old motorcycle battery > box? > Bob > Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious > Tenacity Farm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: ROTAX Technical Information
> CPS has a manual you > can buy that shows you the pattern! Call 800-air-wolf! > > Tracy B. Tracy/Gang: How about technical info directly from ROTAX for free! Go to this url for ROTAX Technical Information and Manuals that can be downloaded from the internet for free: http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm On the left hand side of the page is a list of about everything you need for two and four stroke ROTAX engines, from jetting carbs, to installing engines, parts manuals, operators manuals, line and heavy maintenance. I, for one, would rather get the info free from the original source than have to pay good money from one of our high priced UL parts suppliers. For your info, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kevin Jones" <kevin-jones(at)snet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb stalls
Date: Sep 03, 2002
A friend of mine, after going through the same experience as you, said "If you have a choice between moving and suicide, give it careful thought." kj ----- Original Message ----- From: "H MITCHELL" <mitchmnd(at)msn.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb stalls > > > Duane the plane, Tallahassee, FL FireFly SN 007, Mk3/912 in the workshop > (while I finish moving into a new home, jeez what a job!). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Very interesting Post. Doug, do you consider the throttle cable arraignment that is supplied with the Kolb kits (FireStar as this is the only one I am familiar with) to be more reliable than the Morse type? I am sure that a push pull tube arraignment would be better but the bicycle brake cable seems to leave a lot to be desired. If you were to bring the throttle back to idle rapidly as in the case of an unsuspected up draft or anything that takes you by surprise, you can kink the cable before the throttle springs have time to take over. Ron Payne -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 09:36:11 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control I would be a bit cautious about using Morse style cables for "throtle" or "control surface" control unless you were going to "religiously" replace them on a very regular basis. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
> I am sure that a > push pull tube arraignment would be better but the bicycle brake cable seems > to leave a lot to be desired. If you were to bring the throttle back to idle > rapidly as in the case of an unsuspected up draft or anything that takes you > by surprise, you can kink the cable before the throttle springs have time to > take over. > > Ron Payne Ron/Gents: If you are "sure that a push pull tube arrangement would be better, but the bicycle brake cable seems to leave a lot to be desired", then why don't you put the Morse type cable in your airplane. If you are quicker than the carb spring retarding the throttle, stay out of "unsuspected up drafts", or "anything that takes you by surprise". Just kidding with you Ron. Again I will state my observations, experiences, and feelings about the Kolb throttle system which is standard throughout all models and has been in use since before I started building Kolbs in 1984. They work, are reliable, and safe. In over 1,700+ on my Mark III, I have changed out the throttle cables once. The only reason I changed them out then was because I was going to fly to Barrow, Alaska. With no hard information on time to replace, I went ahead and replaced them. Probably 500 hours would be a good time to change out throttle cables. I have never had a throttle cable failure, but I have broken a throttle lever. Does that count? I think you are making a big deal out of a system that is perfectly reliable and safe. My 2 cents for what it is worth. Not much. :-) Now Kolb Brothers, don't get excited cause I have expressed my opinion. However, if you doubt that a system in your airplane that you are building is not safe and reliable, then by all means come up with something better that you will feel comfortable with. With more than 4,000 hours in Kolb aircraft, I feel comfortable with what Homer Kolb provided for me to build and fly. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
There have been two posts in the last two days about the Kolb system failing I once asked a so called expert about his opinion of Ballistic Parachutes. He said that if he thought the plane was going to crash that he would not fly it so he didn't need one. I think he wore a seat belt though. Didn't ask him why. Seems to be the same kind of logic here. Ron Payne -------Original Message------- From: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 03:01:49 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control > I am sure that a > push pull tube arraignment would be better but the bicycle brake cable seems > to leave a lot to be desired. If you were to bring the throttle back to idle > rapidly as in the case of an unsuspected up draft or anything that takes you > by surprise, you can kink the cable before the throttle springs have time to > take over. > > Ron Payne Ron/Gents: If you are "sure that a push pull tube arrangement would be better, but the bicycle brake cable seems to leave a lot to be desired", then why don't you put the Morse type cable in your airplane. If you are quicker than the carb spring retarding the throttle, stay out of "unsuspected up drafts", or "anything that takes you by surprise". Just kidding with you Ron. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
> There have been two posts in the last two days about the Kolb system failing > Seems to be the same kind of logic here. > Ron Payne Hi Ron/Gents: If I remember correctly, there have been two posts to the Kolb List reference throttle cable crimping. One was by Will Uribe and his incident happened some time ago. I think he said it was caused by a cable splitter that malfunctioned. Had a burr or something inside that caused it to hang up. I forget what the other cause was, but I believe it was operator induced, lack of maintenance, or improper routing. Do not believe the design of the throttle cable system was the cause of the failure. I think the reason Big Lar uses a morse type cable is because of the VW conversion system he is using. I don't know what Richard Neilsen is using on his VW conversion. Your example of the gentleman that flew without a parachute because he did not think he was going to need one surely wasn't me. My "logic" on that subject is, "I hope I don't need one again. But if I do, I will have one." You statement that my logic is the same kind that the "lack of parachute" gentleman was using is way off base. In fact, I take that as a personal attack, but we can get that part of it straightened out if we see each other at London, KY, in a couple weeks. :-) hehehe PLEASE NOTE THAT IS A SMILEY FACE AND I AM LAUGHING.......................... Ron may need to take a close look at the throttle actuating system as it was designed, then ask some questions on why it failed in these two instances. I don't think we need to replace a system mearly because something didn't work. If we did, we would all be replacing two stroke engines and a pile of 4 stroke engines. Let's look at what we might be doing wrong. What is/are Ron's specific questions on the throttle system and maybe some of you all experts out there can answer them for the benefit of Ron and the rest of the gang. I think it is important not to take the Kolb List too seriously. Let's lighten up a bit. After all, we are communicating in a very basic mode that lacks much, if any, manner to let the reader know where we are coming from and what our intent is. One of the easiest things on an email List to do is take the wrong intent that the writer is trying to get across. Does that makes sense? I don't know. Been weed eating and cutting too much grass today in this Alabama heat. If you get right down to a throttle problem with Kolb aircraft, the major problem in the past was using 1/16 inch cotter pin to attach the throttle cable clamp to the throttle. I know of quite a few instances where the cotter has worn through leaving the hapless pilot throttleless. I drill mine out to take a 3/32 AN clevis pin. Never had one of these fail. I usually find them at Sun and Fun. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
> >In over 1,700+ on my Mark III, I have changed out the >throttle cables once. The only reason I changed them out >then was because I was going to fly to Barrow, Alaska. With >no hard information on time to replace, I went ahead and >replaced them. Probably 500 hours would be a good time to >change out throttle cables. I have never had a throttle >cable failure, but I have broken a throttle lever. Does >that count? >john h When I first built my MKIII, I had one throttle quadrant on the left fuselage wall, next to my left hand, and another on the right wall, right where the passenger would have it beside their right hand. It was a bit much, and I took it out. But as part of that arrangement, I had a cable adjuster in the cable sheath to the rear of the airplane and it laid on the lower rear floor. Apparently, while washing out some dirt that had gotten in, I got water in it, and it got real tight after about two years. Took it apart, and the cable had gotten rusty in the sheath. You got to keep that stuff dry! Redid the system to make it more waterproof, and I check it every year. There was a MKII around here that was sold for scrap a while back, one of the locals had a throttle cable break while on base leg and then he tried to stretch the glide and stalled. He took out the localizer antennas as he cartwheeled through them. (That's how I know about Kolb ribs breaking at the fabric rivit holes) The feds were not pleased. But he walked away. Don't know what caused the throttle cable to break. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. You statement that my logic is the same kind that the "lack of parachute" gentleman was using is way off base. In fact, I take that as a personal attack, but we can get that part of it straightened out if we see each other at London, KY, in a couple weeks. :-) hehehe PLEASE NOTE THAT IS A SMILEY FACE AND I AM LAUGHING.......................... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Hauck
> > >Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. Most of the time I agree with him. That's as good as anybody else gets. On those occasions where I don't necessarily agree with him, I still figure that anybody with 4,000 hours in a Kolb is entitled to express their opinion. I have about a third that many hours, and I'm not shy about expressing my opinion. If the time ever comes along that he says something that is flat out wrong, I'll jump him. So far, so good... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Hauck
> >Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. Ron Payne > If the time ever comes along that he says something that is flat out wrong, > I'll jump him. So far, so good... > Richard Pike Richard/Gents: If you jump me, you won't be getting a cherry. If I am wrong, it won't be the first time. :-) If you don't like what I say. Hit the delete button. I am not on the Kolb List to win a popularity contest. I get paid a tremendous amount of money...................NAW!!!!!! I don't get any money for the time I spend on here sharing my mistakes, experiences, short cuts, Kolb life time secrets. I also learn a great deal about my airplanes from you all. I'm here cause I want to, maybe, help someone else from making the same mistakes that I made while growing up with these little Kolb airplanes. But if you want to pay the price, go ahead. Richard, thanks for stating your opinion like a man. I respect you Brother. Take care, john h PS: Can learn a lot about people on this list too. I like that. I got my degree in Sociology................ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Date: Sep 03, 2002
> > Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. I think he's OK. No facades with John. What you see is what you get. Straight shooter. .........Snuffy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "vincenicely" <vincenicely(at)chartertn.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb flying characteristics and Wing Dihedral
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Hi Gang, In a recent message: > > A good source informs me that Homer is playing around with > > an old Firestar and exploring some of the realm of greater > > dihedral. I have a Firestar II on which I have set substantially more dihedral (10 inches high at each wing tip) than is usual. The flight is very stable and the rudder provides much different control than is observed on the standard rigging. There is a discussion of this and answers to questions in the archive from a couple of years ago under my name. Vince Nicely Firestar II 315 hours > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > Very interesting Post. Doug, do you consider the throttle cable > arraignment that is supplied with the Kolb kits (FireStar as this is the only > one I am familiar with) to be more reliable than the Morse typ > Ron Payne Ron and others, I am using the same simple throttle cable supplied with my kit that is over 15 years old. It has seen hundreds of takeoffs and landings and is working as well as the day I installed it. No frays, kinks, or other problems. I like it that way. The movement back and forth should be smooth without any rubbing or stiffness. I have mine as direct as possible to the carb. The only tight bend is at the top where it makes a 'U' into the carb. If the cable wants to kink at the lever, there are too many bends in the routing and friction is overcoming the spring action in the carb. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > There have been two posts in the last two days about the Kolb system > failing > I once asked a so called expert about his opinion of Ballistic > Parachutes. > He said that if he thought the plane was going to crash that he > would not > fly it so he didn't need one. I think he wore a seat belt though. > Didn't ask > him why. Seems to be the same kind of logic here. > > Ron Payne Ron and others, I have taken my elevator and rudder cables out to inspect them numerous times over the years. Yes I have used a magnifying glass with rag and twisted the cable, against the winding, where it runs over the pulleys. No frays, kinks, or other problems. I like it this way. One year I got them twisted and they were crossing over each other and touching inside the boom tube. It was about a 4 months before I saw this in a thorough preflight. I took them out, re-inspected them and they were fine. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joel Reed" <jfreed(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: X-country,
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Hi Kolbers, I have been dreaming of going cross country with my Firestar and have been wondering a few things which would be necessary, one of the most important is (of course) fuel. I understand that I can put AVgas in my plane, so I can just go to a airport along my way to fuel up, but my concern is how is the best way to measure oil to mix with the gas? I would like to hear your methods of how some of you do premix gas while on cross country. Thanks, I would appreciate any help. Joel Reed 84 Kolb Firestar w/377 Manheim, Pa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Hi Ron, It happened to me once and I wouldn't change the throttle system because of that. You have to understand we get a lot of sand storms here in the Southwest and even thought we try to plug up any cracks in the hanger where the sand gets through will still get our airplanes covered with sand. I also taxi and sometimes land on the sand or dirt. The reason my cable failed was because sand got into the splitter and was not letting the carburetor spring do it's job so when I pulled back on the throttle the cable didn't side back in when I pulled the throttle. I didn't realize it was the splitter until one time I had to abort a take off because I couldn't get full RPM's. The sand finally gummed upped the works inside the splitter and was binding big time. Sand gets into everything so what ever type to throttle system you install, I'm sure sand will get into it if you live in this part of the country. It also happened to my C-172 but I'm not going to call the Cessna system a bad system, but I'm sure others are entitled to their opinion. Will Uribe El Paso, TX FireStar II N4GU C-172 N2506U http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron or Mary" <<A HREF="mailto:ronormar(at)apex.net">ronormar(at)apex.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control > > There have been two posts in the last two days about the Kolb system failing > I once asked a so called expert about his opinion of Ballistic Parachutes. > He said that if he thought the plane was going to crash that he would not > fly it so he didn't need one. I think he wore a seat belt though. Didn't ask > him why. Seems to be the same kind of logic here. > > Ron Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
I have broken a throttle cable before, or almost broken one ( down to the last wire on the cable) and it was only 3 years old. You guys might want to buy a can of this stuff from CPS. You can lubricate your cables without taking them off the carbs. Part # 7435 CABLE LUBER SYSTEM - $17.95 One can will last a life time. "Prevent cable freezing and extend cable life by lubricating cable with the "Cable Luber" system. Special precision machined lube block allows ease of lubrication between cable and housing without removing the cable. Just attach the Cable Luber to either end of the cable and insert nozzle from aerosol can. Specially designed seals in block force lube down inside cable housing. A must for the serious mechanic. Cable Life Aerosol lubricates and rustproofs moving parts even at temperatures far below -50 degrees http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
In a message dated 9/3/02 8:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com writes: > Very interesting Post. Doug, do you consider the throttle cable > > arraignment that is supplied with the Kolb kits (FireStar as this is > the only > > one I am familiar with) to be more reliable than the Morse typ > > Ron Payne > > During a routine maintenance on his Firestar II, my friend Dave found that all the strands of his throttle cable except one had rusted in two. The location was about a foot from the throttle lever, which is the lowest point of the cable. It appeared that while washing the Firestar he had inadvertently let water get into the cable [several times]. He changed to stainless steel. Shack FS II SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: X-country,
I took an old oil bottle (quart size) and cut the bottom out. Stick the neck down into the gas tank opening. Guesstimate ahead of time how much gas I will pump, figure out the amount of oil I will need, and then while holding the hose nozzle with one hand and putting the gas into my home made funnel/oil bottle, I pour the oil into the gas stream with the other hand. I make sure I get all the oil in before I get done pumping gas. Not a perfect system, but so far, so good. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Hi Kolbers, > I have been dreaming of going cross country with my Firestar and >have been wondering a few things which would be necessary, one of the >most important is (of course) fuel. I understand that I can put AVgas >in my plane, so I can just go to a airport along my way to fuel up, but >my concern is how is the best way to measure oil to mix with the gas? I >would like to hear your methods of how some of you do premix gas while >on cross country. Thanks, I would appreciate any help. > > Joel Reed > 84 Kolb Firestar w/377 > Manheim, Pa > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: X-country,
> I understand that I can put AVgas > in my plane, so I can just go to a airport along my way to fuel up, but > my concern is how is the best way to measure oil to mix with the gas? > Joel Reed Hi Joel/Gents: I was lucky enough to do a lot of long cross countries in my Firestar. My method was to estimate how much fuel it was going to take to fill the tank. Compute the correct amount of oil. Dump it into the fuel tank. Push (rock) the airplane back and forth for a minute or two. Top it off with 100LL and be on your merry way. If I was between 40 and 60 to one, I was happy, and so was the 447. On one occassion at Norwich, NY, airport, I forgot to shake up the oil before and after I topped off. At about 100 feet in the air I started losing power, noticed a lot of smoke, pulled on the enricher and had enough power to land with power. What happened was, the fuel pump sucked the straight, or nearly straight, oil off the bottom of the tank and filled the carb float bowl. In turn this was leaning out the mixture. By pulling on the enricher I was able to get enough fuel through all that oil to keep the engine producing power. Scared me enough not to make that mistake again. I did have a sight gauge. I had flown enough to know within a tea cup how much fuel it would take to top off. If you get a chance to spend several weeks or months with your airplane, flying cross country every day, you will be able to guesstimate very closely how much fuel it is going to take. Also the hour meter helps narrow down the amount of fuel burned. I don't have to add oil any more, except every 100 hours at oil changes. Usually take 2.5 qts to burn up 500 gal of fuel. Not bad. And never have had to add oil between changes. Except when I forget to tighten the oil lines on the oil tank. :-) Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: X-country,
> I don't have to add oil any more, except every 100 hours at > oil changes. Usually take 2.5 qts to burn up 500 gal of > fuel. Not bad. And never have had to add oil between > changes. Except when I forget to tighten the oil lines on > the oil tank. :-) > john h Gang: Did a little figuring after I punched the send button. 2.5 qts of oil and 500 gal of fuel equals 6.25 gal fuel per 1 oz oil. Not a bad return. For you guys that want to do 100 to 1 fuel to oil ratio in your two strokes, I do 800 to 1 in my old 4 stroke. This is one of the ways we start changing that curve and making up the difference in price between a 582 and a 912. When you start throwing in the price for spark plugs, the 912 uses 8 ea in 200 hours (I have pushed them to 225 hrs with not problem), it evens out the difference even more. A while back I figured out that if one flies 1,000 hours in the 912 he will make up the difference in purchase price of the 582, based on oil, fuel, and spark plugs. The 912 burns 4 gph at 5000 rpm. My 912S burns 5 gph at 5000 rpm. My 582 burned 5.5 gph at 5800 rpm (normal cruise). If you don't follow the above. OK. Please delete and continue on with your lives. Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country,
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Nice figurin' there John. hhham did we forget per chance,, da factoring in the OH? :-) 9/3/02 20:55John Hauck > A while back I figured out that if > one flies 1,000 hours in the 912 he will make up the > difference in purchase price of the 582, based on oil, fuel, > and spark plugs. The 912 burns 4 gph at 5000 rpm. My 912S > burns 5 gph at 5000 rpm. My 582 burned 5.5 gph at 5800 rpm > (normal cruise). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 03, 2002
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
Forget where I saw it maybe A/S. Some cables nowdays are ss in a Teflon sleeve. I think my prop cable is one of them. 9/3/02 21:04Kirk Smith > Naw, but thanks! Just trying to come with an easy way to avoid having to > check throttle cables for wear. Heh, another idea would be to use the > throttle cable for a vhf antenna and save some weight. Could call it > Snuffy's subliminal modulation detector. hehehe......snuf ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jtk1972" <jtk1972(at)olg.com>
Subject: Re: X-country,
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Ya' know, I'm no Mechanical Engineer, but, these aircraft engines must be using a ton of gas for cooling. My 2000 Ford Expedition, 5.4L V-8, 4x4, pulling a 5x8 Uhaul @ 70mph, gets 15mpg. That's 4.67 gph, pushing/pulling a couple of tons around. This hit me when I was running up I-95 earlier this year, that I was feeling crummy about the same gph that a 912 flyer overhead would be calling people on the radio to brag about. Just scratching my head. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CaptainRon" <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: X-country, > > Nice figurin' there John. > hhham did we forget per chance,, da factoring in the OH? :-) > > > 9/3/02 20:55John Hauck > > > A while back I figured out that if > > one flies 1,000 hours in the 912 he will make up the > > difference in purchase price of the 582, based on oil, fuel, > > and spark plugs. The 912 burns 4 gph at 5000 rpm. My 912S > > burns 5 gph at 5000 rpm. My 582 burned 5.5 gph at 5800 rpm > > (normal cruise). > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <jrcasey(at)ldl.net>
Subject: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Date: Sep 04, 2002
-----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron or Mary Yea, he's a doer, not a talker. But if you can get him talking...and then shut up and listen, you'll learn something. I've had the pleasure of meeting him in person several times and he even flew over to my backyard strip once to look over my "DE"-constructing of the world's longest build time of a Kolb. He pointed out a couple of things that he didn't like and didn't mince words about it. You want to know the funny thing...even when he told me he didn't like something to my face I didn't take it personal. It was advice coming from someone who just didn't want someone repeating his mistakes. Remember that email doesn't convey facial expressions and inflections in your voice that would otherwise tell the whole story of what you were saying and why you were saying it... That's my opinion... Jeremy Casey Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. You statement that my logic is the same kind that the "lack of parachute" gentleman was using is way off base. In fact, I take that as a personal attack, but we can get that part of it straightened out if we see each other at London, KY, in a couple weeks. :-) hehehe PLEASE NOTE THAT IS A SMILEY FACE AND I AM LAUGHING.......................... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > Hi Kolbers, > I have been dreaming of going cross country with my Firestar and > have been wondering a few things which would be necessary, one of > the most important is (of course) fuel. I understand that I can put > AVgas in my plane, so I can just go to a airport along my way to fuel up, > but my concern is how is the best way to measure oil to mix with the > gas? I would like to hear your methods of how some of you do premix gas > while on cross country. Thanks, I would appreciate any help. > > Joel Reed > 84 Kolb Firestar w/377 > Manheim, Pa Joel and others, There are two tanks that fit nicely behind the seat that will carry 3 gallons apiece. This will give you a total of 11 gallons onboard, assuming that you have a 5 gallon main tank. I built a bench-style shelf many years ago that rests on the two cross members and over the control cables. It's easy to make and is held in place with only two hose clamps. The 3-gallon auxiliary tanks will be your premix tanks and allow for more accurate measurement of the fuel to oil ratio. Measure out a 50:1 oil ratio, by carrying along a baby bottle that shows ounces on the side. Draw a line to the 7.7 ounce mark with a Sharpie permanent ink pen. This will be the ratio for the 3-gallon tank. The 11 gallons will give you a range of about 160 miles total, but the range for one leg of your journey is determined by the 5 gallon main tank which is about 85 miles in calm air. This means that you would have to plan each leg of your flight to within 70 miles to allow for headwinds and reserve. Fill your 5-gallon tank with a 4-foot piece of neoprene hose that is coiled up in a plastic trash bag stored under the seat. One end of the hose will fit nicely on the end of each 3-gallon spout. As you can see, traveling across country on a 5-gallon main tank is not easy. This is why John Hauck used more than a 5-gallon main tank on his trips around the US in his Firestar with a 447 engine. I usually plan my trips with 50-mile legs, which will allow me to get out and stretch and have more than enough fuel to account for winds. To get a quick estimate on how much oil will be needed for the trip, divide the total miles by 20 to get the amount to fuel used (the 377 and 447 engines get approximately 20 miles per gallon). Divide this number by 50 to get the amount of oil needed in gallons. For long trips I carry a full gallon of synthetic oil stored under the seat, enough for 1000 miles (not easy to find Klotz around). Aviation fuel will work ok in the engine and I have used it when I cannot get auto fuel. There have been times, where folks at airports have either loaned me a car or given me rides into town to get fuel or I have hiked. One guy told me I could use his truck and said that it was the grey one 'over there' with the keys in the ignition. I ended up taking someone else's truck. We both had a laugh when I got back :) Good luck and have a fun safe trip when you decide to do some cross country flying. It's adventure at its best. Just ask John Hauck, Richard Pike, and many others who have taken long trips in their Kolbs. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Lawton" <skyrider(at)pgtv.net>
Subject: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Date: Sep 04, 2002
I think I would tend to agree with the folks that believe Homer did it right the first time around. Keeping the cables clean and dry and more importantly, routing the cables properly, will probably take care of 99.9% of the problems associated with throttle cables. I don't think that routing was the cause of any of our "Morse style" cable failures because we tried several different methods of routing as well as the throttle quadrants on several of the boats are by different manufacturers. They always break within an inch of two of the same place, inside the jacket out of view, on the boats and the Quicksilvers. I broke another one yesterday on one of the Mastercrafts. For the other .1%, practice your engine off, dead stick landings regularly and replace the cables every so often. Remember Murphy's law, "if it can, it will". If I ever come across a better cable arangement, I'll let you know. A teflon or phenolic inner coating on a jacketed stainless steel liner with a solid core stainless cable sounds like a great idea. Any one got one laying around they want to get rid of? ; ) Fly Safely, Doug Very interesting Post. Doug, do you consider the throttle cable arraignment that is supplied with the Kolb kits (FireStar as this is the only one I am familiar with) to be more reliable than the Morse type? I am sure that a push pull tube arraignment would be better but the bicycle brake cable seems to leave a lot to be desired. If you were to bring the throttle back to idle rapidly as in the case of an unsuspected up draft or anything that takes you by surprise, you can kink the cable before the throttle springs have time to take over. Ron Payne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: September/October I'll Be Flying!!!
Kolbers: Good news!!! Looks like I am getting into the serious planning stage of a flight to London, KY; Homer Kolb's (maybe, I haven't been invited yet :-); back to hauck's holler, AL; then D/FW, TX; El Paso (where I may or may not find Will and Dave at home); and Phoenix, AZ, (Copper State Regional Fly-In); and return to Alabama. Shouldn't take more than 3 days out and 3 day back, depending on the weather and how long I dilly dally along the way. Got to get some new sectionals (they do change quite a bit, quite often), update my little black book of phone numbers and locations, double check that my Mark III is ready for the flight (I think she is now, but it is about time to change plugs), and start getting my own gear together. I can update my old Garmin 95XL from the internet for $35.00 (that was last year's price), to insure my Jepsen Data Base is correct. That's kinda neat being able to do that. Used to take forever to order on the phone, then wait for them to send me a floppie. My really old Garmin 55 had to be shipped back to the factory for them to update the data base. Really long and a lot more expensive. Guess I better start praying for good weather for the flight period. I believe I can get Brother Pike to help me out a little in that department. I need all the help I can get. On a real serious long distance flight, I usually do not stop and socialize much. Most of my time is spent flying, sleeping, and eating. I don't sit still, well, in one spot for very long. Usually, my needs are pretty much met at the airports where I land, or near them, and with what I take with me on the airplane. However, I am trying to learn how to slow down, after 63 years (the Gray Baron still refers to me as young'n). So........if I find some of you along the way, maybe we can sit down have a cup of coffee, a meal, and swap opinions of each other.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! I didn't mean to say that. Just kidding. All this is getting to be a "Payne in the ass" anyhow. Take it easy Ron. Again!!!! Just kidding. You know, trying to lighten up a bit. Can't stand to get too serious, life is too damn short for that. Everybody have a good day. Looking forward to seeing and visiting with "everyone" at London, and along the way. john h hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Doug, If a little care is taken to ensure there is proper cable routing and lubrication, Homer's solution works. It is very easy to take the nut off the throttle bolt pivot, and to pull the throttle by hand to see if the throttle return spring can retard the throttle properly. A bit of "Lubriplate" grease works wonders on reducing the friction between the cable and the housing. To save weight, I have been running steel cables for the throttle and choker in small aluminum tube housing for the last two years and I have had no problems. For those who would like to switch, bicycle shops sell or can order Teflon covered, and stainless steel brake and shifter cables. One can find various cable housings too. Murphy can be held at bay by checking the throttle return rate once in a while and by re lubricating the cable. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jackson, MO > >I think I would tend to agree with the folks that believe Homer did it right >the first time around. Keeping the cables clean and dry and more >importantly, routing the cables properly, will probably take care of 99.9% >of the problems associated with throttle cables. I don't think that routing >was the cause of any of our "Morse style" cable failures because we tried >several different methods of routing as well as the throttle quadrants on >several of the boats are by different manufacturers. They always break >within an inch of two of the same place, inside the jacket out of view, on >the boats and the Quicksilvers. I broke another one yesterday on one of the >Mastercrafts. > >For the other .1%, practice your engine off, dead stick landings regularly >and replace the cables every so often. Remember Murphy's law, "if it can, >it will". > >If I ever come across a better cable arangement, I'll let you know. A >teflon or phenolic inner coating on a jacketed stainless steel liner with a >solid core stainless cable sounds like a great idea. Any one got one laying >around they want to get rid of? ; ) > >Fly Safely, > >Doug Jack & Louise Hart jbhart(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry" <tswartz(at)hydrosoft.net>
Subject: September/October I'll Be Flying!!!
Date: Sep 04, 2002
John, If you head to Homer Kolb's, assuming he still lives at Phoenixville PA, I would be right on your way. You would be welcome to stop for a meal, bed, shower, or whatever, as long you come by when I'm in town. I keep my MK III 912 at LNS (Lancaster PA) or you could land at Smoketown Q08, I live half way between. Or if you let me know when you go to Homers, I might buzz up there. You may not remember but we met at Sun-N-Fun several years ago. http://scott.bentley.com/sunnfun981.htm Terry Swartz -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Hauck Subject: Kolb-List: September/October I'll Be Flying!!! Kolbers: Good news!!! Looks like I am getting into the serious planning stage of a flight to London, KY; Homer Kolb's (maybe, I haven't been invited yet :-); back to hauck's holler, AL; then D/FW, TX; El Paso (where I may or may not find Will and Dave at home); and Phoenix, AZ, (Copper State Regional Fly-In); and return to Alabama. john h hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: X-country,
Date: Sep 04, 2002
>>x-country >>the best way to measure oil to mix with the gas? The way I've done it in the past is one of two ways. First, I bungee'd on the necessary containers and measuring devices. Secondly, I stashed pre-mix along the route. Of course, in my Mark II, I'll just throw an empty can and stuff into the passenger seat! ;-) -Ken Fackler Mark II/503 Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: X-country,
Date: Sep 04, 2002
> get a chance to spend several weeks or months with your > airplane, flying cross country every day, you will be able > to guesstimate very closely how much fuel it is going to > take. Gee, what's wrong with marking the tank? That's what I've always done and the way my Mark II is now. -Ken Fackler Mark II/503 Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: X-country,
> Gee, what's wrong with marking the tank? > -Ken Fackler Ken/Gents: I don't see anything wrong with marking the tank. In my case, marking the tank won't do me any good. My tank is behind the middle bulk head. I had the same arrangement with the 18 gal aluminum tank in the original Firestar. Used a site gauge for a fuel gauge. Worked perfectly, is pretty simple to assemble and is almost Murphy proof. Never had a problem with either the one in the FS or the MK III, but always leave a little room for Murphy. The 25 gal aluminum tank in the MK III is made of 3/8 ID tygon clear fuel line. Two 90 deg fittings that are used for the Kolb plastic tank fittings. There is a large neoprene washer that is used with this fitting. I don't use the fitting though. The small end is pushed through the bulkhead top and bottom where it is plumbed into the top and bottom of the fuel tank. Marked off with black tie wraps every gal. When it gets to 3 gal remaining I use a red tie wrap because this is the last place I can see the fuel to get a reliable reading. I try to be on the ground refueling when I get to the 5 gal mark. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: Duncan McBride <duncanmcbride(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control
Sure. John is one of the most helpful and reliable sources of information on this list. I always pay attention to everything he posts. I hope I put together as capable an airplane as he has done, and I hope to fly it half as many hours he has safely documented. If in doing so, I can pass along a tenth as much to this list as he has done, I would feel very proud. E-mail is a tough way to get to know someone, and nobody can perfectly express themselves all the time. But just ask a question about building or flying a Kolb, however, and John will help you any way he can. My Mark III will turn out better than I could have built it on my own, due to his advice over the last couple of years. Just my opinion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron or Mary" <ronormar(at)apex.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Morse Style Cables For Throttle Control > > Anyone else out there have an opinion of Hauck? Would like to hear from you. > > > You statement that my logic is the same kind that the "lack > of parachute" gentleman was using is way off base. In fact, > I take that as a personal attack, but we can get that part > of it straightened out if we see each other at London, KY, > in a couple weeks. :-) hehehe PLEASE NOTE THAT IS A SMILEY > FACE AND I AM LAUGHING.......................... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > Gee, what's wrong with marking the tank? That's what I've always > done and the way my Mark II is now. > > -Ken Fackler > Mark II/503 > Rochester MI Ken, marking the tank and estimating how much gas is needed for a fill is not accurate enough. Not only that, but if oil is being added to the main tank directly, it is not getting mixed properly. On a cross country trip, the last thing you want to fail is the engine. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: glide ratio
Hi Guys, Anyone know what the sink rate of the Firestar and Firestar 2 is at max gross weight (at best power off L/D glide speed)? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country,
John, Where did you find room to stuff an 18 gal fuel tank in an original FS? What weight were you flying at when fully loaded ( what did you modify to handle the extra weight?)? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: X-country,
Steve/Gang: > Where did you find room to stuff an 18 gal fuel tank in an original FS? Brother Jim made a mock up of card board to fit the area behind the bulkhead and above the center longeron. After we got that to fit, then fabricated a 5052 alum, .050 tank. We had not idea how much it would hold until after it had been welded up. Size was just right for the 447 that burned 3.75 gph at cruise of 5800 to 6000 rpm. Gave me about the same duration then as I have now with the 912S and 25 gal tank. What > weight were you flying at when fully loaded ( what did you modify to handle > the extra weight?)? Not sure what the gross weight was, but it was much greater than design gross weight. I did not modifications to handle the extra weight, other than fuselage and landing gear mods. The 5 rib wings failed at 755 hours, after many long, fast, and heavy trips. On top of that did thousands of aerobatics during the life of the airplane. Was the leading edges of both wings that failed, pulling the noses of the main ribs up and back to the main spar. Same same both wings. I survived cause I had a Jim Handbury hand deployed parachute and a Higher Power that was looking out for my old hide. That was 12 and a half years ago. Have not done an aerobatic maneuver in a Kolb aircraft since then. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: X-country,
Date: Sep 05, 2002
> On one occassion at Norwich, NY, airport, I forgot to shake > up the oil before and after I topped off. At about 100 feet > in the air I started losing power, noticed a lot of smoke, > pulled on the enricher and had enough power to land with > power. What happened was, the fuel pump sucked the > straight, or nearly straight, oil off the bottom of the tank > and filled the carb float bowl. In turn this was leaning > out the mixture. By pulling on the enricher I was able to > get enough fuel through all that oil to keep the engine > producing power. Today, since I am still unable to get anywhere closer to finishing my plane due to other projects (Jennifer 1, Bobby 5 and Caitlin 8 to name 3) I decided to put some fogging oil in the 503. well I pulled the filters and gave each carb a good shot, with the throttle propped open with a clamp. gave the cord a couple of good yanks. on the last yank the engine started and ran roughly for about 10 seconds! Plane was not tied down or anything as there was no fuel in it. was still in my workshop actually with about an inch of prop clearance to the ceiling! And since the wiring harness is off it for mods there was no way to ground the ignition. If Anbody out there is thinking of pulling some fogging oil threw their motor ya might wanta disconnect the spark plug wires if the electrical harness is off. Who would have guessed a 2 stroke could run on fogging oil? Have ya noticed that you learn alot about what not to do by doing, but ya ussually learn what to do from others. Topher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: X-country
Date: Sep 05, 2002
>> Gee, what's wrong with marking the tank? > not accurate enough. Not only that, but if oil is being added to the main > tank directly, it is not getting mixed properly. Ralph et al: I certainly agree about the problem with mixing. I thought the idea that someone else posted about shaking the plane was interesting but frankly felt very unsure about my ability (I'm fat and out of shape and not very strong) to do that successfully. Up till now anyway, I've always found some way to avoid trying to mix in my main tank. -Ken Fackler Mark II/503 Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country,
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
9/4/02 20:46John Hauck > On > top of that did thousands of aerobatics during the life of > the airplane. Was the leading edges of both wings that > failed, pulling the noses of the main ribs up and back to > the main spar. Same same both wings. ====================== Well you had my attention on that one John. :-) Do you have any photo's that you may care to share of those wings, and the failure mode. Its interesting that the leading edge is what gave away. By the way the identifier for Copper State Fly In is (A39). This Saturday I will be up there helping to put up one of the buildings,,, got no idea what, but we (EAA) are going to put up a building for ya'all. :-) Ron(FHU) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 04, 2002
Subject: Re: X-country,
From: CaptainRon <CaptainRon(at)theriver.com>
9/4/02 22:14Christopher Armstrong > Who would have guessed a 2 stroke could run on fogging oil? Have ya noticed > that you learn alot about what not to do by doing, but ya ussually learn > what to do from others. > > Topher Any damage? Ron(FHU) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: FS Wing
> For someone who is considering getting into ultras that's a cautionary > tale. I'll still do it if possible but with extra care. > kj kj/Gents: I might emphasize, this was not a design defect in the airplane, but operator defect in the pilot. I understand the pilot had to work for 755 flight hours to initiate and accomplish that "short field" landing. Might help some of our aspiring aerobatic pilots to make the best decision when it comes time, whether to do or not to do aerobatics in any aircraft that is not designed and built to perform aerobatic maneuvers. Some of us learned the hard way. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: FS Wing
Date: Sep 05, 2002
Ouch is all I have to say! Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Broken Firestar
Gang: John Jung gave me a few pointers on correctly uploading to my index page so that Netscape as well as IE folks can open. I think this url will work: http://hawk36.home.mindspring.com/Firestar/FS%20021190.JPG Thanks John J. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: markings
Legal eagles, getting near that time where I have to stick some ugly markings on the bird......browsing through some of my pictoral archives, I notice that many have somehow avoided applying the 2" experimental lettering at both entrances (MkIII) per the FAR regs. What's the loophole? I like the door glass method, but initially I won't have any . -BB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: markings
> I notice that many have somehow avoided applying the 2" experimental > lettering at both entrances (MkIII) per the FAR regs. What's the > loophole? I like the door glass method, but initially I won't have > any . -BB BB/Gang: The requirement, as I understand it and the way I did mine, is to have the EXPERIMENTAL located so that it can be seen upon entering the aircraft. I applied my to the bulkhead behind the seats. My first set of doors has "experimental" on each door bottom. I like a single one on the bulkhead better. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: markings
Date: Sep 05, 2002
My inspector had no problem with "experimental" on the struts. (see http://www.springeraviation.net/chatthooch.html ) I have no structure to put them on the fuselage though:) Kip Firestar II Atlanta http://www.springeraviation.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Bean" <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> Subject: Kolb-List: markings > > Legal eagles, getting near that time where I have to stick some ugly > markings on the bird......browsing through some of my pictoral archives, > > I notice that many have somehow avoided applying the 2" experimental > lettering at both entrances (MkIII) per the FAR regs. What's the > loophole? I like the door glass method, but initially I won't have > any . -BB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: markings
The reg says the word EXPERIMENTAL has to have visible from each entrance . Leading edge of the wing (front of the gap seal area) would suffice, or across behind the seats if you have a place, would also comply. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Legal eagles, getting near that time where I have to stick some ugly >markings on the bird......browsing through some of my pictoral archives, > >I notice that many have somehow avoided applying the 2" experimental >lettering at both entrances (MkIII) per the FAR regs. What's the >loophole? I like the door glass method, but initially I won't have >any . -BB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: dale seitzer <dalemseitzer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 618 Rotax Parts
I need a Rotax ball bearing for a 618, engine part #932-330 special part #16101-Z--it is for the water pump side of the rotary valve shaft. The tech doing the rebuild ordered the complete set from LEAF but did not inventory the shipment and it was back ordered. He has checked Lockwood and California Powr Systems Airwolf but no one has the part. Any ideas of who might have the part? Dale Seitzer http://finance.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Timandjan(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Subject: Re: 618 Rotax Parts
Try South Mississippi Light Aircraft. Great company to buy from, they always ship quick and don't gouge you for shipping like some of the California places. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: c.f.white(at)att.net
Subject: Need some help from my friends!
Date: Sep 06, 2002
I'm getting ready to fly my Mark3/912 for the first time and could sure use some advice from some of you "seasoned veterans". Having never flown a tail dragger before, I've been taking lessons in a Citrobria... just to get current. My instructor asked me several questions about my plane that hopefully a few of you could help me with: 1. What are the power settings and airspeeds you use for landing? 2. Does it land better with a 3-point or wheel landing? 3. What is the glide like ratio @ gross? 4. How does it fly compared to a Cub? Any other tips or advice would certainly be appreciated. After 4 years of building... I think this thing is about ready to fly! Charles White Houston, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: "Richard Neilsen" <neilsenr(at)michigan.gov>
Subject: Re: Need some help from my friends!
I will answer a few of your questions and a few you didn't ask. Hopefully a 912 driver will jump in with RPMs. 1st A Kolb tail wheel is a non problem with the low landing speeds and the main gear as far aft as they are the handling will feel more like a nose gear airplane than a tail dragger. The biggest problem you will have is that the Kolb will loose speed in a heart beat. Even in a cub you will start you flair a 50 ft, you don't do this in a Kolb. My recommendation is that you maintain some power on landing app. 20-30% till you touch ground. Do not use full flaps till you have 100 landings. You can use one notch of flaps to cut the float on landing. Set up your approach at 50-60 MPH closer to 60 when heavy and/or low on power. With your general aviation experience you will find your self flaring way too high. You need to fly your plane down to 3ft before you flair. The 20-30% power on landing will make your Kolb fly more like cub landing with no power. Prepare your self for a panoramic view of the ground coming up at you a whole lot faster than you are used to. My $.02 worth Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIII >>> c.f.white(at)att.net 09/06/02 10:47AM >>> I'm getting ready to fly my Mark3/912 for the first time and could sure use some advice from some of you "seasoned veterans". Having never flown a tail dragger before, I've been taking lessons in a Citrobria... just to get current. My instructor asked me several questions about my plane that hopefully a few of you could help me with: 1. What are the power settings and airspeeds you use for landing? 2. Does it land better with a 3-point or wheel landing? 3. What is the glide like ratio @ gross? 4. How does it fly compared to a Cub? Any other tips or advice would certainly be appreciated. After 4 years of building... I think this thing is about ready to fly! Charles White Houston, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Subject: Re: Need some help from my friends!
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Good advice Richard. The #1 problem that I've seen over the years, is the guy that is used to flying heavier planes wanting to flare early and coming down hard, bending the gear. Throttle back but not to idle and fly it right down to the ground with a neutral stick and 1" of flare on the stick (no more) and it will land itself in calm air. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > I will answer a few of your questions and a few you didn't ask. > Hopefully a 912 driver will jump in with RPMs. > > 1st A Kolb tail wheel is a non problem with the low landing speeds > and > the main gear as far aft as they are the handling will feel more > like a > nose gear airplane than a tail dragger. > > The biggest problem you will have is that the Kolb will loose speed > in > a heart beat. Even in a cub you will start you flair a 50 ft, you > don't > do this in a Kolb. My recommendation is that you maintain some power > on > landing app. 20-30% till you touch ground. Do not use full flaps > till > you have 100 landings. You can use one notch of flaps to cut the > float > on landing. Set up your approach at 50-60 MPH closer to 60 when > heavy > and/or low on power. With your general aviation experience you will > find > your self flaring way too high. You need to fly your plane down to > 3ft > before you flair. The 20-30% power on landing will make your Kolb > fly > more like cub landing with no power. Prepare your self for a > panoramic > view of the ground coming up at you a whole lot faster than you are > used > to. > > My $.02 worth > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIII > > >>> c.f.white(at)att.net 09/06/02 10:47AM >>> > > I'm getting ready to fly my Mark3/912 for the first time > and could sure use some advice from some of > you "seasoned veterans". Having never flown a tail > dragger before, I've been taking lessons in a > Citrobria... just to get current. > > My instructor asked me several questions about my plane > that hopefully a few of you could help me with: > 1. What are the power settings and airspeeds you use for > landing? > 2. Does it land better with a 3-point or wheel landing? > 3. What is the glide like ratio @ gross? > 4. How does it fly compared to a Cub? > > Any other tips or advice would certainly be appreciated. > After 4 years of building... I think this thing is about > ready to fly! > > Charles White > Houston, Texas > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: 618 Rotax Parts
Have you checked your local SeaDoo/SkiDoo dealer? You never know, some of those part numbers are the same, or maybe it can be cross referenced off the microfiche. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >I need a Rotax ball bearing for a 618, engine part >#932-330 special part #16101-Z--it is for the water >pump side of the rotary valve shaft. The tech doing >the rebuild ordered the complete set from LEAF but did >not inventory the shipment and it was back ordered. >He has checked Lockwood and California Powr Systems >Airwolf but no one has the part. Any ideas of who >might have the part? > >Dale Seitzer > > >http://finance.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: b young <byoung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: dihedrial
A good source informs me that Homer is playing around with an old Firestar and exploring some of the realm of greater dihedral. Maybe I will find out this Fall, if I can squeeze a flight in up Pennsylvania way. ============== john when i rebuilt i added a bit of extra dihedrial and my mkiii went from neg to netural roll stability. the plans call for 1 1/2 inches at each tip and i went 3 inches at each tip.. i can tell no diverence in performance. boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tommy & Carolyn" <TommyandCarolyn(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: 4th Annual Cajun Wings & Wheels Fly-in & Camp-out
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Subject: 4th Annual Cajun Wings & Wheels Fly-in & Camp-out WHEN: September 27, 28 & 29 WHERE: Allen Parish Airport Oakdale, Louisiana L42 N30-45-19 W92-41-30 WHO: Cenla Escadrille EAA Chapter 614 & the Southwest Louisiana Ultralight Aircraft Club FEATURES: Good food, Cajun music & much more, including free shuttle service to Louisiana's premier resort casino, the Grand Casino Caushatta. FEES: Free FMI: Joel Johnson, Airport Manager 318-215-0090 or 337-639-4328 airport1(at)centurytel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: EGT
Date: Sep 06, 2002
I could use some advice. Shortly ( within 5 minutes) after take off this afternoon, the front EGT took a nose dive. Went from normal to about zero. No loss of power or vibration so I suspect it is either the gauge or the connection from the probe to the guage. I quickly got back on the ground and reversed the probes with still no reading on the front EGT. I don't know if this is related or not, but I have noticed an increase in rpm on one side when I did the mag check. Any ideas? Thanks. Jim Mark III with 503 DCDI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com>
Subject: Re: EGT
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Sounds like a bad gauge. Take a reading of the gauges where the probes connect, with an ohm meter. Front and rear Gauges should read the same. Tap the gauge and shake it to see if the reading changes. Will the rear gauge read both probes ok? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: EGT
Date: Sep 06, 2002
As long as we're on the topic of EGT, what's "normal" for Kolb Mark II with the single ignitiion 503? -Ken Fackler Mark II/ 503 Rochester MI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Subject: Re: EGT
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > I could use some advice. > > Shortly ( within 5 minutes) after take off this afternoon, the front > EGT > took a nose dive. Went from normal to about zero. > Jim > Mark III with 503 DCDI Jim, I had that very same thing happen to me and it turned out to be the EGT sender on the muffler. I replaced it with another one and it was fine. The original one read high and I was happy to see the new one reading normal! It had me fooled for years before it finally went to zero on takeoff one day. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
Subject: Re: EGT
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
writes: > > > As long as we're on the topic of EGT, what's "normal" for Kolb Mark > II with > the single ignitiion 503? > > -Ken Fackler > Mark II/ 503 > Rochester MI Not sure about the 503, but the 447 is 860-1080 degrees. I looked in the manual. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: EGT
Jim, Can you be a little more specific on what you actually done where when you stated you reversed the probes. It leaves a lot to interpretation. jerryb > >I could use some advice. > >Shortly ( within 5 minutes) after take off this afternoon, the front EGT > took a nose dive. Went from normal to about zero. No loss of power or >vibration so I suspect it is either the gauge or the connection from the >probe to the guage. >I quickly got back on the ground and reversed the probes with still no >reading on the front EGT. > >I don't know if this is related or not, but I have noticed an increase >in rpm on one side when I did the mag check. > >Any ideas? > >Thanks. > >Jim >Mark III with 503 DCDI > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: John Jung <jrjung(at)sgmmail.com>
Subject: Re: EGT
Jim, Try moving the leads to the rear guage and see if the front probe is working. If it is, try the rear probe leads on the front guage and it should tell you that the guage is bad. John Jung Jim wrote: > >I could use some advice. > >Shortly ( within 5 minutes) after take off this afternoon, the front EGT > took a nose dive. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: jerryb <ulflyer(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Need some help from my friends!
Well stated Richard. Charles and All, Not sure the relevance of the Cub question would have unless you had prior flight experience in Cubs to compare against. The biggest problem I've seen with people new to Kolbs is they get them to slow and drop them in, ending in a hard landing and bend a gear leg or two. Keep your airspeed up, if your a little fast on landing it won't hurt, they slow down fast and they don't fly very long if to slow. Carrying a little power until touch down is good advise until you get the feel of the plane. As an ex Citabria owner, don't try to use the bottom of the Kolb wing for basing pitch attitude, the Kolb have a lot of incidence in the wing and it will look like you very nose high but your actually not. I was very uncomfortable with our FireFly until we took it to a sod field with no traffic and a 3000 ft runway. I made slow taxi runs holding it straight and then making slight S turns (at slow speed). As I became comfortable with that I progressed to making faster straight taxi runs, burst of power to get the speed up some then back on the power. That progressed to high speed tail up runs coming back on the power just enough to keep the tail up but not enough to fly. After a few of those I felt I had good control I power to it and took off. (No crow hops, makes you have to do to much too fast and has led to a number of planes being busted by trying these.) NOTE: any time you do any taxiing, whether you plan to fly or not, ALWAYS have enough fuel on board to fly for a while just in case it should get off the ground. Last if it does, fly it, don't panic and plop it back down or you surely will bust it. Fly it staying within gliding distance of the airport. Do circuits above the normal GA pattern altitude monitoring your engine instruments. After your build a little confidence that its going to stay running, while at attitude, try bringing back the power to see that it will keep running. (Recommend doing this on down wind leg of the circuit as it sets you up for a landing if the engine should stop, you would just have to adjust your decent rate for a proper approach.) Slowly reapply power and return to a safe altitude, now do a power off no flap stall, note the airspeed indication when the stall breaks, repeat with the amount of flaps used in a normal landing configuration, say 2 notches. Don't recommend full flap landings until your more acquainted with the airplane. Landing practice. Take your time, set up a good approach. A good approach is primary ingredient to a good landing. What I did was shoot a couple approaches but not with the intention of touching down. This got me more acquainted with the plane as I got near the ground and what level flight looked like, do not get slow. Next I shot 10 landing in normal landing configuration. The first 5 or six were full stop, the remainder were touch and goes slowing to a near stop and then taking off. The first few I was very nervous, by the 8th-10th I had good control of things. Took a break, then went back and shot 10 more. By the time I got done with the second group of 10, I was getting the point of being cocky, able to spot land the plane exactly where I wanted it. jerryb > >I will answer a few of your questions and a few you didn't ask. >Hopefully a 912 driver will jump in with RPMs. > >1st A Kolb tail wheel is a non problem with the low landing speeds and >the main gear as far aft as they are the handling will feel more like a >nose gear airplane than a tail dragger. > >The biggest problem you will have is that the Kolb will loose speed in >a heart beat. Even in a cub you will start you flair a 50 ft, you don't >do this in a Kolb. My recommendation is that you maintain some power on >landing app. 20-30% till you touch ground. Do not use full flaps till >you have 100 landings. You can use one notch of flaps to cut the float >on landing. Set up your approach at 50-60 MPH closer to 60 when heavy >and/or low on power. With your general aviation experience you will find >your self flaring way too high. You need to fly your plane down to 3ft >before you flair. The 20-30% power on landing will make your Kolb fly >more like cub landing with no power. Prepare your self for a panoramic >view of the ground coming up at you a whole lot faster than you are used >to. > >My $.02 worth >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW powered MKIII > > >>> c.f.white(at)att.net 09/06/02 10:47AM >>> > >I'm getting ready to fly my Mark3/912 for the first time >and could sure use some advice from some of >you "seasoned veterans". Having never flown a tail >dragger before, I've been taking lessons in a >Citrobria... just to get current. > >My instructor asked me several questions about my plane >that hopefully a few of you could help me with: >1. What are the power settings and airspeeds you use for >landing? >2. Does it land better with a 3-point or wheel landing? >3. What is the glide like ratio @ gross? >4. How does it fly compared to a Cub? > >Any other tips or advice would certainly be appreciated. >After 4 years of building... I think this thing is about >ready to fly! > >Charles White >Houston, Texas > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 07, 2002
Subject: Re: EGT
In a message dated 9/6/02 10:38:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com writes: > Not sure about the 503, but the 447 is 860-1080 degrees. I looked in the > manual. > > Ralph Burlingame > Original Firestar > 15 years flying it > > > Those EGT temps. are the same listed in the manual for the 503 as "normal"; many of the 'guru's" on this list advocate running them a little hotter. Who's right, or does it matter as long as we don't exceed 1200 degrees? Shack FS II SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2002
From: John Hauck <hawk36(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: EGT
> Those EGT temps. are the same listed in the manual for the 503 as "normal"; > many of the 'guru's" on this list advocate running them a little hotter. > Who's right, or does it matter as long as we don't exceed 1200 degrees? > > Shack Shack/Gents: Who is running precision EGT Gauges? Are these gauges calibrated? Do you really know if the indicated temps are correct? Are you gonna gamble on an engine and an airplane, plus the possibility of your butt on a Westach gauge? Are the manufacturers lying when they publish the green arc for EGT? Do the "guru's" know what they are talking about? How much "real" experience do the "guru's" have? Is not 1200F the red line for EGT? Is that where you want to be operating? Just thought I would toss in some more questions. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: EGT
Date: Sep 07, 2002
Jerry, I took the probes off at the exhaust and moved the front to back and vice versa. Still the guage showed no reading on the front EGT which makes me think it is the guage. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerryb" <ulflyer(at)airmail.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: EGT > > Jim, > Can you be a little more specific on what you actually done where when you > stated you reversed the probes. It leaves a lot to interpretation. > jerryb > > > > > >I could use some advice. > > > >Shortly ( within 5 minutes) after take off this afternoon, the front EGT > > took a nose dive. Went from normal to about zero. No loss of power or > >vibration so I suspect it is either the gauge or the connection from the > >probe to the guage. > >I quickly got back on the ground and reversed the probes with still no > >reading on the front EGT. > > > >I don't know if this is related or not, but I have noticed an increase > >in rpm on one side when I did the mag check. > > > >Any ideas? > > > >Thanks. > > > >Jim > >Mark III with 503 DCDI > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2002
From: Woody <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: 618 Rotax Parts
> > Any ideas of who >might have the part? > >Dale Seitzer bearings and seals are stock items. Check your yellow pages for bearings and give them a call. The original bearing will have a number on it like 6304. If not give them the dimensions and they can find the right bearing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2002
Subject: Re: EGT
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guys, As we all know, the spark plugs tell the real story, but if the EGT is running beyond 1300 degrees, this is a case for some real concern. A badly calibrated gauge or sender could not be this far off. EGT temps are for reference only but in an earlier post, 1200 deg was a normal operating temp with the original sender. Did not know at the time that it was bad from the beginning. When I installed this 447 engine and ran it for the first time on the ground, it was approaching 1300 deg on the EGT at full power. The engine had been 'pickled' in 2-stroke oil and after running it for a half hour, the EGT's came down to normal for that sender (1200 deg). Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it writes: > > > > Those EGT temps. are the same listed in the manual for the 503 as > "normal"; > > many of the 'guru's" on this list advocate running them a little > hotter. > > Who's right, or does it matter as long as we don't exceed 1200 > degrees? > > > > Shack > > Shack/Gents: > > Who is running precision EGT Gauges? Are these gauges > calibrated? Do you really know if the indicated temps are > correct? Are you gonna gamble on an engine and an airplane, > plus the possibility of your butt on a Westach gauge? Are > the manufacturers lying when they publish the green arc for > EGT? Do the "guru's" know what they are talking about? How > much "real" experience do the "guru's" have? Is not 1200F > the red line for EGT? Is that where you want to be > operating? > > Just thought I would toss in some more questions. :-) > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2002
Subject: Re: EGT
From: ul15rhb(at)juno.com
> > Jerry, > > I took the probes off at the exhaust and moved the front to back and > vice > versa. Still the guage showed no reading on the front EGT which > makes me > think it is the guage. > > Jim Jim, No need to move the senders, just switch wires on the back of the EGT gauge(s) and see if the front and rear readings follow (the one that reads zero will move to the opposite side of the gauge or to the other gauge). If they do, it's a bad sender. If they don't, it's a bad gauge. Ralph Burlingame Original Firestar 15 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2002
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: EGT
When your spark plugs are no darker than dark brown, and no lighter than light brown, that's what you want. Whatever the EGT gauge indicates under those conditions is normal. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >In a message dated 9/6/02 10:38:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ul15rhb(at)juno.com >writes: > > >> Not sure about the 503, but the 447 is 860-1080 degrees. I looked in the >> manual. >> >> Ralph Burlingame >> Original Firestar >> 15 years flying it >> >> >> > >Those EGT temps. are the same listed in the manual for the 503 as "normal"; >many of the 'guru's" on this list advocate running them a little hotter. >Who's right, or does it matter as long as we don't exceed 1200 degrees? > >Shack >FS II >SC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sudlow" <sudlow77(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Need some help from my friends!
Date: Sep 07, 2002
Charles, I transitioned from cessnas to kolbs with an instructor. Kolbs are very


August 23, 2002 - September 07, 2002

Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-du