Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-er
December 01, 2003 - December 17, 2003
>> (snipped)
>>
>>
>>> Is mechanical sanding the best way to continue, or is
>>> there a chemical angle I should try?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Davis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | HP Reduction, Weight Reduction & FireFly Climb Rate |
>I was wondering if anyone has ever been able to reduce the weight of an early
FireStar down to the Part 103 >legal limit of 254#. My guess is it might take
replacing the 377 with a lighter engine, if such a thing is >available. Thanks
for any input or ideas.
>......................
>As with all things there is one aspect that is a negative. You can not climb
with hp that is not there. So >with all the fairing slick up of the FireFly so
that it cruises just as fast as before, it is not going to >climb nearly well
as it did before. I do not know, but I would anticipate the wing loading of
a FireStar is >less than for a FireFly. If, so hp reduction would have less
affect on climb rate.
FireFlyers & Kolbers,
I got to thinking about what would the effect be on climb rate due to power and
weight reduction? Years ago I purchased the "A Practical Guide to Airplane Performance
and Design" by Donald R. Crawford. I dug it out and pulled out the
following formula:
Climb Rate = [33,000 x Brake HP / Total Weight] x thrust to engine efficiency -
Sink Rate
I solved for the thrust to engine efficiency term by using data I had for the FireFly
when the Rotax 447 was mounted.
Brake HP was 38
The Climb Rate at 50 mph was 1,000 fpm
The Sink Rate was computed at 50 mph and based on a 6 to one glide ratio was 733
fpm
Total Weight was 484 pounds <- 30 pounds of fuel, 200 pounds for me, and 254 pounds
for the FireFly
Using these numbers, the thrust to engine efficiency was found to be 0.67
Then assuming that the efficiency term and Sink Rate both remain constant, new
climb rates were computed for different HP and total weights.
Assumed HP = 27 and total weight = 484 pounds => Climb Rate = 500 fpm or a 50%
reduction.
This represents the FireFly with the Victor 1+ throttled back.
Assumed HP = 27 and total weight = 435 pounds => Climb Rate = 639 fpm or a 36%
reduction.
This represents the MZ34 engine flat out with no additional weight added back to
the FireFly.
Assumed HP = 27 and total weight = 450 pounds => Climb Rate = 594 fpm or a 41%
reduction.
This represents the MZ34 engine flat out with full enclosure, cockpit controlled
propeller pitch, and additional fairings to improve cruise speed. This Climb
Rate is probably conservative. If a full cockpit enclosure and wheel strut
fairings are installed, the sink rate will decrease which will boost the climb
rate a little more.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris,
I installed the steel rods because I plan to take this engine thru the test
to the point of destruction, and from previous expierience, I know the
aluminum rods wont stand more than 5500 rpms, Plus the steel rods have
clevite bearing inserts, the alum do not, and both are readily available as
a stock component from honda, although for a different (older) v-twin
engine. The Inserts will make this engine cheaper to overhaul if the project
becomes feasable.
I undertsand completely about you comment on the static thrust, which is why
I lessened the pitch. You see , at that pitch (11.5 deg at the tip) the
Cuyuna/FireFly was at a compromise between best climb and best
cruise...maybe a tad closer to best cruise pitch. Also keep in mind that the
Cuyuna would spin it at 6200 max(WOT) for a 2480 prop speed and about 78
mph. The Honda at that pitch would not attain those levels..turning 4500 to
4600 if I remember right for 2250 to 2300 prop speed WOT.
Comparing inflight numbers with static is Usless?...Well not entirely,
admittedly not a dead accurate comparison, but not entirely Useless.
You see I am in the very begining of this test which will culminate in
finding out how much Horsepower can be attained from this engine before its
reliability diminishes. Currently there are modified versions of this engine
running at the 65 to 70 horsepower level in Unlimited Pulling Tractors. BUT
as they rarely put more than a few minutes on these engine at a time, this
level is likely not acceptable to an aircraft. I can tell you from personal
expierience that My son and I ran a smaller version (620cc's) for 2 years on
the pulling circuit at the 60 horse level and when we were done I pulled it
down (for the first time) and found no wear apparant on any single
component. I returned the engine back to stock (the short block WAS
basically stock) and installed it in a cub cadet mower and it has been
mowing my yard now for 4 years on the same block ,bearings, rods, pistons,
and crank as was in the puller.
I mow 4 acres BTW. I have NEVER added oil to this engine between oil
changes. It does not use a single drop. It also uses .9 gph of fuel in that
mower.
Anyway back to comparing. I believe that so far all I have accomplished is
determining that in the dead stock state of tune, running at the 4500 rpm
level static WOT load, is that you would not need to run it in a FireFly at
WOT to cruise at fly at 60 mph. I dont know what the rpm increase will be in
flight...but as I was running it at 100 or so less than max in that test, I
would assume that another 1or 200 would be likely, Possibly giving a stock
engine and a 2.2 to 1 ratio the ability to propell a FireFly at 65mph or so
with a cruise of 55 to 60 pretty easy on the engine.
Another fella has already been Flying a Firestar this summer with a 25 hp
Kohler (untill he busted the crank) and he thought the preformance was close
to the 377 it replaced.
The FireStar Might be a better test bed for these kinds of engines, Due to
their heavier weight than a FireFly. BUT...I have a FireFly....
Also I might mention this. Some of you have been asking ...WHY?....
Well there have been several whys ....
Just a short time ago, before I finished my Kolb I used to read Jack Harts
posts, folowing his endeavour to get better range out of that airplane of
his, going thru all his troubles of different engines, and trying to wring
out better fuel economy and such. I would think to myself...Jeezx Jack, why
dont you just get a different Airplane. I really did not understand, because
I had not Flown a FireFly...now I have, and its not my first airplane
either. This FireFly is my 5th airplane I have persionally built, and I have
Logged Flight time in everything from a 50 horse Cub to Beech 18s to even a
P-38 Lockheed since 1978 when I got my first rating. In all these years, I
really can NEVER remember a more enjoyable airplane to fly. (although I have
never flown another Kolb model other that a brief checkout in "Miss Peff'r")
( thanks again John). I got Hooked on "low an slow" back in 80 in a
Weedhopper and I, Like many who follow this list, Fly mostly for "Fun" If I
was interested in transportation..I would build a different airplane. I
didnt anticipate falling in love with this FireFly...it is so
nimble...fast...as John H told me before I flew it. "Dont worry, they just
have no bad habits"
None the less the FireFly's range is poor, as any that are limited to 5
gallons of fuel, and I am just not done Enjoying myself when I run short on
Fuel..So I installed a 10 gallon tank..but ...some guys cant get away with
this, and I must admit that I feel uncomfortable when going to fly-ins at
different airports. You see I know that FAA officials dont wear uniforms!
Now...They dont carry scales around with them . But they are not dummies
either..and it aint too hard to see the difference in a 5 gallon and a 10
gallon tank! Maybe if I didnt have anything that they could take away from
me, I would not care. But I would not like to loose any of my ratings.
Also , I have been a participant in this sport for over 23 years now, and
after seeing slower growth than I thought there would be, all of a sudden I
see the possibility of a steep decline.
WHAT?...with all the hoopla about Sport-pilot and such...how can I say
that.?
Men, you have heard me say it before...we are about to run-out of affordable
engines for the ultra-light crowd. Or at least the ones we are used to
using. Everybody has a budget for pleasure, some larger than others, but, as
in any market, it can be charted as a great pyramid. The number of fellas at
the top is small, with a large budjet for their pleasure. The numbers of
fells at the bottom is large..but with a small budget for theirs. If you
want growth in a market, you ALWAYS go for the largest number with the
smaller budget.
All I see in sport Pilot is a method for the Faa to increase its regulatory
strength. Getting currently "fat" ultralights regulated will be the greatest
numbers of regristrations..not the number of new sport aircraft built...they
are at the top of the pyramid. They will be much fewer. And what will the
Value of these new aircraft that dont require a medical to fly? will they
have a better resale?...I dont see how. Like an expierimental, If you didnt
build it, you cant inspect it...at this point you will have to "go to
school" so to speak to attain faa approved licensce's for maintainance and
such.OR go to an A&P.
I dont see that as easier..I see it as more complicated.
What I see in this market is likely a wider gap between the regulated...and
the non regulated happening. With the end in sight for 2 cycles, we are
going to be looking for alternatives, and I dont see any other than out
their right now for the fellas on the bottom on the Pyramid than these
industrial v-twins. They are not the ideal replacements..but. like the
snowmobile engines were when they we being adapted for our sport, they were
not either. Aircraft have "evolved" to fit the available powerplants. I
predict that the company that decided to design an aircraft that will fly on
an industrial V-twin will be the next QuickSlilver in terms of sales
success.
Its a shame Homer and Dennis are out of the Biz...they are just the kind of
fellas we need to work on this!
Pardon my long verbage men...maybe I got carried away!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
I agree that they have some potential. The tests that you are
performing are a bit conservative. The outdrive you are using is so
ridged that you are subjecting the engine to a much more difficult test
then if you used a torsional absorbing outdrive. If you could put a
clutch on your driven gear of some other form of spike absorber as you
would on a real flight application I think that you would be giving the
engine a more accurate test for durability. Raven redrives has an
outdrive prop hub with a rubber damper built into it. You might be able
to buy one of those to use for testing. Or just put something together
from an industrial catalog. When you start using the dyno you will get
real HP numbers but again that wont test durability in the flight
configuration very well.
I would have fun desigining a plane around this engine. Need a real 254
pound low drag configuration. Firefly with a single streamlined lift
strut and a slightly longer wing and a better airfoil would be great.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
Is there anyone on the list that flies an MZ engine. I
spoke with the fellow that owns the MZ line, seemed
amiable enough. However I have no data on the MZ 301
(80hp) model.
http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz301.html
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
Topher/All:
Better than what?
More speed, less lift?
More speed, less forgiving stall characteristics?
Better slow speed and stall characteristics?
john h
better for a lower hp engine, while still meeting the part 103 weight
and speed requirements.
Nothing really wrong with the Kolb airfoil but better ones are
available. Higher lift to drag with better stall characteristics. I
could spend 30 minutes with a cfd program on my home computer starting
from scratch right now and come up with a better airfoil then the Kolb
airfoil. The tools available now just are so good (and free) that you
can do things that you couldn't do before. I don't suggest that if I
was building a firefly with a 477 I would change it. But for a
different engine different design goals I would.
Homers airfoil is easy to build with the long flat bottom that goes from
leading edge to trailing edge tube. If you take that consideration away
and curve the bottom of the airfoil you immediately get large drag
reduction, and if you increase the leading edge radius the stall
characteristics would be even better then they are. The two lift
struts are there specifically to get the drag of the firefly as
calculated in the charts to allow a 477 engine. If you have less hp you
wouldn't need that anymore.
I am deffinately not the least critical of the firefly, but I do think
you would make different choices for a different engine.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Topher/Gang:
Would be nice to get more airspeed/less drag out of the Kolb
wing without sacrificing any of the good low speed/gentle
stall characteristics.
The airfoil on the Ultrastar/Firestar/MK III are about 85
mph wings. From there to 100 mph it takes an awful lot of
power, much more than is feasible or economical to operate.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
lets see it !!
I could spend 30 minutes with a cfd program on my home computer starting
from scratch right now and come up with a better airfoil then the Kolb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
Great Plains has just finished their testing on a Kohler 25 HP engine with a
reduction drive. I know it isn't a Honda but maybe there are some ideas you
can use. For those that might be interested in a US built engine they are
selling a engine/redrive package for $2945.00.
See it at http://www.greatplainsas.com/newproducts.html
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fly honda
>
> Chris,
>
> I installed the steel rods because I plan to take this engine thru the
test
> to the point of destruction, and from previous expierience, I know the
> aluminum rods wont stand more than 5500 rpms, Plus the steel rods have
> clevite bearing inserts, the alum do not, and both are readily available
as
> a stock component from honda, although for a different (older) v-twin
> engine. The Inserts will make this engine cheaper to overhaul if the
project
> becomes feasable.
>
> I undertsand completely about you comment on the static thrust, which is
why
> I lessened the pitch. You see , at that pitch (11.5 deg at the tip) the
> Cuyuna/FireFly was at a compromise between best climb and best
> cruise...maybe a tad closer to best cruise pitch. Also keep in mind that
the
> Cuyuna would spin it at 6200 max(WOT) for a 2480 prop speed and about 78
> mph. The Honda at that pitch would not attain those levels..turning 4500
to
> 4600 if I remember right for 2250 to 2300 prop speed WOT.
>
> Comparing inflight numbers with static is Usless?...Well not entirely,
> admittedly not a dead accurate comparison, but not entirely Useless.
>
> You see I am in the very begining of this test which will culminate in
> finding out how much Horsepower can be attained from this engine before
its
> reliability diminishes. Currently there are modified versions of this engi
ne
> running at the 65 to 70 horsepower level in Unlimited Pulling Tractors.
BUT
> as they rarely put more than a few minutes on these engine at a time, this
> level is likely not acceptable to an aircraft. I can tell you from
personal
> expierience that My son and I ran a smaller version (620cc's) for 2 years
on
> the pulling circuit at the 60 horse level and when we were done I pulled
it
> down (for the first time) and found no wear apparant on any single
> component. I returned the engine back to stock (the short block WAS
> basically stock) and installed it in a cub cadet mower and it has been
> mowing my yard now for 4 years on the same block ,bearings, rods, pistons,
> and crank as was in the puller.
> I mow 4 acres BTW. I have NEVER added oil to this engine between oil
> changes. It does not use a single drop. It also uses .9 gph of fuel in
that
> mower.
>
> Anyway back to comparing. I believe that so far all I have accomplished
is
> determining that in the dead stock state of tune, running at the 4500 rpm
> level static WOT load, is that you would not need to run it in a FireFly
at
> WOT to cruise at fly at 60 mph. I dont know what the rpm increase will be
in
> flight...but as I was running it at 100 or so less than max in that test,
I
> would assume that another 1or 200 would be likely, Possibly giving a stock
> engine and a 2.2 to 1 ratio the ability to propell a FireFly at 65mph or
so
> with a cruise of 55 to 60 pretty easy on the engine.
> Another fella has already been Flying a Firestar this summer with a 25 hp
> Kohler (untill he busted the crank) and he thought the preformance was
close
> to the 377 it replaced.
> The FireStar Might be a better test bed for these kinds of engines, Due to
> their heavier weight than a FireFly. BUT...I have a FireFly....
>
> Also I might mention this. Some of you have been asking ...WHY?....
> Well there have been several whys ....
> Just a short time ago, before I finished my Kolb I used to read Jack Harts
> posts, folowing his endeavour to get better range out of that airplane of
> his, going thru all his troubles of different engines, and trying to wring
> out better fuel economy and such. I would think to myself...Jeezx Jack,
why
> dont you just get a different Airplane. I really did not understand,
because
> I had not Flown a FireFly...now I have, and its not my first airplane
> either. This FireFly is my 5th airplane I have persionally built, and I
have
> Logged Flight time in everything from a 50 horse Cub to Beech 18s to even
a
> P-38 Lockheed since 1978 when I got my first rating. In all these years, I
> really can NEVER remember a more enjoyable airplane to fly. (although I
have
> never flown another Kolb model other that a brief checkout in "Miss
Peff'r")
> ( thanks again John). I got Hooked on "low an slow" back in 80 in a
> Weedhopper and I, Like many who follow this list, Fly mostly for "Fun" If
I
> was interested in transportation..I would build a different airplane. I
> didnt anticipate falling in love with this FireFly...it is so
> nimble...fast...as John H told me before I flew it. "Dont worry, they just
> have no bad habits"
> None the less the FireFly's range is poor, as any that are limited to 5
> gallons of fuel, and I am just not done Enjoying myself when I run short
on
> Fuel..So I installed a 10 gallon tank..but ...some guys cant get away with
> this, and I must admit that I feel uncomfortable when going to fly-ins at
> different airports. You see I know that FAA officials dont wear uniforms!
> Now...They dont carry scales around with them . But they are not dummies
> either..and it aint too hard to see the difference in a 5 gallon and a 10
> gallon tank! Maybe if I didnt have anything that they could take away from
> me, I would not care. But I would not like to loose any of my ratings.
>
> Also , I have been a participant in this sport for over 23 years now, and
> after seeing slower growth than I thought there would be, all of a sudden
I
> see the possibility of a steep decline.
> WHAT?...with all the hoopla about Sport-pilot and such...how can I say
> that.?
>
> Men, you have heard me say it before...we are about to run-out of
affordable
> engines for the ultra-light crowd. Or at least the ones we are used to
> using. Everybody has a budget for pleasure, some larger than others, but,
as
> in any market, it can be charted as a great pyramid. The number of fellas
at
> the top is small, with a large budjet for their pleasure. The numbers of
> fells at the bottom is large..but with a small budget for theirs. If you
> want growth in a market, you ALWAYS go for the largest number with the
> smaller budget.
> All I see in sport Pilot is a method for the Faa to increase its
regulatory
> strength. Getting currently "fat" ultralights regulated will be the
greatest
> numbers of regristrations..not the number of new sport aircraft
built...they
> are at the top of the pyramid. They will be much fewer. And what will the
> Value of these new aircraft that dont require a medical to fly? will they
> have a better resale?...I dont see how. Like an expierimental, If you
didnt
> build it, you cant inspect it...at this point you will have to "go to
> school" so to speak to attain faa approved licensce's for maintainance and
> such.OR go to an A&P.
> I dont see that as easier..I see it as more complicated.
>
> What I see in this market is likely a wider gap between the
regulated...and
> the non regulated happening. With the end in sight for 2 cycles, we are
> going to be looking for alternatives, and I dont see any other than out
> their right now for the fellas on the bottom on the Pyramid than these
> industrial v-twins. They are not the ideal replacements..but. like the
> snowmobile engines were when they we being adapted for our sport, they
were
> not either. Aircraft have "evolved" to fit the available powerplants. I
> predict that the company that decided to design an aircraft that will fly
on
> an industrial V-twin will be the next QuickSlilver in terms of sales
> success.
>
> Its a shame Homer and Dennis are out of the Biz...they are just the kind
of
> fellas we need to work on this!
>
> Pardon my long verbage men...maybe I got carried away!
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk Smith" <snuffy(at)usol.com> |
| Subject: | Re:HEXADYNE ENGINE |
Kirk
> Yes he named him but I didn't write it down. Cy was easy to talk to. You
> may want to call him for more information on the engine.
Ok Jim, thanks! Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rwpike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
Is it the airfoil, or the fat fuselage (MKIII) with the fast taper behind
the wide part?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Topher/Gang:
>
>Would be nice to get more airspeed/less drag out of the Kolb
>wing without sacrificing any of the good low speed/gentle
>stall characteristics.
>
>The airfoil on the Ultrastar/Firestar/MK III are about 85
>mph wings. From there to 100 mph it takes an awful lot of
>power, much more than is feasible or economical to operate.
>
>john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust cleaning |
In a message dated 11/30/03 9:35:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
davis207(at)comcast.net writes:
> The bad news is the exhausting is pretty rusty and while it's off, I
> need to put a coating on it.
>
Chuck,
On my muffler and header pipe, I use a wire brush, along with #280 (Dry)
wet/dry sandpaper, to remove all the loose stuff. I do not take it down to shiny
bare metal. Wipe it clean with laquer thinner and then paint using black
Plasticoat 500 degree engine paint in an aersol can. Several coats give a nice,
low gloss finish. It will last about one year before burning off at hot spots.
The header elbow is the hottest part, but also a couple spots on the muffler
will burn off. Still, its a cheap and easy way to keep it looking nice.
Bill Varnes
Kolb FireStar
Audubon, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
> Is it the airfoil, or the fat fuselage (MKIII) with the fast taper behind
> the wide part?
>
> Richard Pike
Richard/All:
As I mentioned in my previous post, all three of my
airplanes, Ultrastar, Firestar, and MK III are about 85 mph
airplanes. All had the same airfoil size and shape. Wing
panels are nearly all the same size. Around 85 was about as
fast as these airplanes wanted to fly. All three had
different fuselage configurations.
I'm just guessing, of course, because I do not have any
formulas or numbers or spooky stuff to back up my feelings,
as usual, which are based on a lot of flying and
experimenting with flying these three aircraft.
My MK III is configured different from any other standard MK
III. I know I have dead air between the leading edge of the
wing and top of the windshield. Also the rear quarter
windows. How do I know this? It is very obvious when
flying in rain. Rain drops sit there in those locations
grinning at me.
I figure if I could catch me a good size porcupine I would
have enough quills to kills some of that dead air and get my
cruise up a couple mph.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
It really is the wing that causes a lot of the top end limitation...
since the firestar fuselage is not all that bad a shape and it comes to
a brick wall at say 95 too. Sure the MKiii fuselage is a terrible pig
but it isn't all that big, about 4 feet across. The wing is ~ 30 feet.
The Kolbs are optimized for climb so there is some form drag in cruise
that doesn't need to be there in the tail boom too.
I will post a couple of airfoil images when I get around to it... might
be amusing for some of you guys to see the pressure distributions.
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Monument Valley 2004 |
Kolb Flyers,
After reading and comparing the different replies about the Monument Valley experience,
I am planning on 14-17 May 2004 at Monument Valley.
I called the FSO's at Page, AZ and was told there are no facilities for camping
on the airfield and the closet place to eat is .8 miles away.
So far I have counted eleven Kolbers that have expressed interest in the trip.
The parking area is big and can hold some more airplanes. Spring 2004 flying season
is just around the corner.
I have also updated my website to reflect Sun 'n Fun 2004 and the Alaska 2004 trips.
If a route goes near your place and you want to join up for a while it will
be fun.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: Jabiru 2200, 506 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rwpike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
>Porcupines a bit hard to come by here in the hills of East Tennessee.
But we got lots of possums... every road in every holler has got at least one.
Some better than others, some a bit rough.
How many u need? (Shipping may not be easy...)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>I figure if I could catch me a good size porcupine I would
>have enough quills to kills some of that dead air and get my
>cruise up a couple mph.
>
>Take care,
>
>john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
> The Kolbs are optimized for climb so there is some form drag in cruise
> that doesn't need to be there in the tail boom too.
> Topher
Topher/All:
I agree with that. The Kolbra is much cleaner than the Mark
III for two reasons:
1) The Kolbra flies with the tail boom parallel to the line
of flight. The MK III flies tail high, dragging the length
of the tail boom through the air rather than a 6" diameter tube.
2) About half the fuselage width of the MK III.
I noticed the difference immediately my first and only
flight in the Kolbra. Felt and acted much slicker in the
air than the MK III. Big problem though. Tandem seating
does away with my left seat which I use as a desk/work
bench/hold all for stuff I like to have handy during long
flights.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
I side with the wing being the majority culprit too. The fact that the
wing still has
a positive lower side angle of attack at cruise really hurts. -Not that
I care,
I never was interested in going fast anyway. But then on the other hand I
don't really care whether I climb at 500, 800, 1000 ft/min as long as I get
aviatin'. Different strokes for diff folks, there's a guy near here
dug up a
whole field to make big lumps and bumps for his kid's dirt bike, duh!
But if that's what he likes this is Amerikee, be my guest. -BB do not
archive
Christopher Armstrong wrote:
>
>It really is the wing that causes a lot of the top end limitation...
>since the firestar fuselage is not all that bad a shape and it comes to
>a brick wall at say 95 too. Sure the MKiii fuselage is a terrible pig
>but it isn't all that big, about 4 feet across. The wing is ~ 30 feet.
>
>The Kolbs are optimized for climb so there is some form drag in cruise
>that doesn't need to be there in the tail boom too.
>
>I will post a couple of airfoil images when I get around to it... might
>be amusing for some of you guys to see the pressure distributions.
>
>Topher
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
I was just researching a Corvair site and that motor
listed as 200 pounds and some change. I will need a
different i.e. stronger cage for that.
It seems to me that Kolb needs to make an effort to
consider other engines for their platform than the
price bloated Rotax.
========================================
--- Richard & Martha Neilsen
wrote:
> Neilsen"
>
> Great Plains has just finished their testing on a
> Kohler 25 HP engine with a
> reduction drive. I know it isn't a Honda but maybe
> there are some ideas you
> can use. For those that might be interested in a US
> built engine they are
> selling a engine/redrive package for $2945.00.
> See it at
> http://www.greatplainsas.com/newproducts.html
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fly honda
>
>
> <donghe@one-eleven.net>
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > I installed the steel rods because I plan to take
> this engine thru the
> test
> > to the point of destruction, and from previous
> expierience, I know the
> > aluminum rods wont stand more than 5500 rpms, Plus
> the steel rods have
> > clevite bearing inserts, the alum do not, and both
> are readily available
> as
> > a stock component from honda, although for a
> different (older) v-twin
> > engine. The Inserts will make this engine cheaper
> to overhaul if the
> project
> > becomes feasable.
> >
> > I undertsand completely about you comment on the
> static thrust, which is
> why
> > I lessened the pitch. You see , at that pitch
> (11.5 deg at the tip) the
> > Cuyuna/FireFly was at a compromise between best
> climb and best
> > cruise...maybe a tad closer to best cruise pitch.
> Also keep in mind that
> the
> > Cuyuna would spin it at 6200 max(WOT) for a 2480
> prop speed and about 78
> > mph. The Honda at that pitch would not attain
> those levels..turning 4500
> to
> > 4600 if I remember right for 2250 to 2300 prop
> speed WOT.
> >
> > Comparing inflight numbers with static is
> Usless?...Well not entirely,
> > admittedly not a dead accurate comparison, but not
> entirely Useless.
> >
> > You see I am in the very begining of this test
> which will culminate in
> > finding out how much Horsepower can be attained
> from this engine before
> its
> > reliability diminishes. Currently there are
> modified versions of this engi
> ne
> > running at the 65 to 70 horsepower level in
> Unlimited Pulling Tractors.
> BUT
> > as they rarely put more than a few minutes on
> these engine at a time, this
> > level is likely not acceptable to an aircraft. I
> can tell you from
> personal
> > expierience that My son and I ran a smaller
> version (620cc's) for 2 years
> on
> > the pulling circuit at the 60 horse level and when
> we were done I pulled
> it
> > down (for the first time) and found no wear
> apparant on any single
> > component. I returned the engine back to stock
> (the short block WAS
> > basically stock) and installed it in a cub cadet
> mower and it has been
> > mowing my yard now for 4 years on the same block
> ,bearings, rods, pistons,
> > and crank as was in the puller.
> > I mow 4 acres BTW. I have NEVER added oil to this
> engine between oil
> > changes. It does not use a single drop. It also
> uses .9 gph of fuel in
> that
> > mower.
> >
> > Anyway back to comparing. I believe that so far
> all I have accomplished
> is
> > determining that in the dead stock state of tune,
> running at the 4500 rpm
> > level static WOT load, is that you would not need
> to run it in a FireFly
> at
> > WOT to cruise at fly at 60 mph. I dont know what
> the rpm increase will be
> in
> > flight...but as I was running it at 100 or so less
> than max in that test,
> I
> > would assume that another 1or 200 would be likely,
> Possibly giving a stock
> > engine and a 2.2 to 1 ratio the ability to propell
> a FireFly at 65mph or
> so
> > with a cruise of 55 to 60 pretty easy on the
> engine.
> > Another fella has already been Flying a Firestar
> this summer with a 25 hp
> > Kohler (untill he busted the crank) and he thought
> the preformance was
> close
> > to the 377 it replaced.
> > The FireStar Might be a better test bed for these
> kinds of engines, Due to
> > their heavier weight than a FireFly. BUT...I have
> a FireFly....
> >
> > Also I might mention this. Some of you have been
> asking ...WHY?....
> > Well there have been several whys ....
> > Just a short time ago, before I finished my Kolb I
> used to read Jack Harts
> > posts, folowing his endeavour to get better range
> out of that airplane of
> > his, going thru all his troubles of different
> engines, and trying to wring
> > out better fuel economy and such. I would think to
> myself...Jeezx Jack,
> why
> > dont you just get a different Airplane. I really
> did not understand,
> because
> > I had not Flown a FireFly...now I have, and its
> not my first airplane
> > either. This FireFly is my 5th airplane I have
> persionally built, and I
> have
> > Logged Flight time in everything from a 50 horse
> Cub to Beech 18s to even
> a
> > P-38 Lockheed since 1978 when I got my first
> rating. In all these years, I
> > really can NEVER remember a more enjoyable
> airplane to fly. (although I
> have
> > never flown another Kolb model other that a brief
> checkout in "Miss
> Peff'r")
> > ( thanks again John). I got Hooked on "low an
> slow" back in 80 in a
> > Weedhopper and I, Like many who follow this list,
> Fly mostly for "Fun" If
> I
> > was interested in transportation..I would build a
> different airplane. I
> > didnt anticipate falling in love with this
> FireFly...it is so
> > nimble...fast...as John H told me before I flew
> it. "Dont worry, they just
> > have no bad habits"
> > None the less the FireFly's range is poor, as any
> that are limited to 5
> > gallons of fuel, and I am just not done Enjoying
> myself when I run short
> on
> > Fuel..So I installed a 10 gallon tank..but ...some
> guys cant get away with
> > this, and I must admit that I feel uncomfortable
> when going to fly-ins at
> > different airports. You see I know that FAA
> officials dont wear uniforms!
> > Now...They dont carry scales around with them .
> But they are not dummies
> > either..and it aint too hard to see the difference
> in a 5 gallon and a 10
> > gallon tank! Maybe if I didnt have anything that
> they could take away from
> > me, I would not care. But I would not like to
> loose any of my ratings.
> >
> > Also , I have been a participant in this sport for
> over
=== message truncated ===
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "CRAIG M NELSON" <vitalfx0(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Airfoil
here goes $.o2 worth
I was designing a 1/2 scale P40 composite light plane in 1980. when it came to
choosing an airfoil I consulted with the aeronautical department at ASU. was given
a book of NASA airfoils. basically there are airfoils that create high lift
and airfoils that have less drag. I had 65 hp. Polaris racing engine on my
hummer you could point it straight at the ground at full throttle and 80 mph is
all she would do. the lift to drag coefficient on some airfoils goes up exponentially
relative to speed so much so it would take double the hp to go much
faster than it was designed for.
uncole craig
Is it the airfoil, or the fat fuselage (MKIII) with the fast taper behind
the wide part?
>The airfoil on the Ultrastar/Firestar/MK III are about 85
>mph wings. From there to 100 mph it takes an awful lot of
>power, much more than is feasible or economical to operate.
>
>john h
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
Careful how you talk about my buddies there...................:-) Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Airfoil
>
>
> >Porcupines a bit hard to come by here in the hills of East Tennessee.
>
> But we got lots of possums... every road in every holler has got at least
one.
> Some better than others, some a bit rough.
> How many u need? (Shipping may not be easy...)
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> >
> >I figure if I could catch me a good size porcupine I would
> >have enough quills to kills some of that dead air and get my
> >cruise up a couple mph.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2004 |
I'll 3rd it. Lookin' forward. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2004
>
>
> > After reading and comparing the different replies about
> > the Monument Valley experience, I am planning on 14-17
> > May 2004 at Monument Valley.
>
> > John Williamson Arlington, TX
>
> John W/All:
>
> I'll second that. Besides, I know the way to Monument
> Valley from Titus, Alabama, already.
>
> You guys in other parts of the US and Canada will have to
> scout around and find us some neat places to fly to, spend a
> few days, and enjoy the local area. But it has to be super
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Airfoil |
hey lar I thought you really liked to hang out with them thar' little bitty
"ANTS" !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Airfoil
>
> Careful how you talk about my buddies there...................:-)
Do
> not Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Airfoil
>
>
> >
> >
> > >Porcupines a bit hard to come by here in the hills of East Tennessee.
> >
> > But we got lots of possums... every road in every holler has got at
least
> one.
> > Some better than others, some a bit rough.
> > How many u need? (Shipping may not be easy...)
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> >
> >
> > >
> > >I figure if I could catch me a good size porcupine I would
> > >have enough quills to kills some of that dead air and get my
> > >cruise up a couple mph.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
| Subject: | Fabric Rivet Holes |
I'm current working on the wings of MKIII Xtra and the "book say's to drill
fabric rivet holes about every 4" on the ribs"
My question is this Does this include the bottom of the rib? ( don't think
so but just checking)
Do I start from the front of the rib and work to the back?
Or is it only on the top from the back ( trailing edge) to just before the
leading edge?
My instruction manual does not have a location pic of the rivets hole and
the only info is on page 45 of the written manual..
I have made a drilling jig the slips over the rib and centers of the hole I
just don't want to drill to few or to many holes.
Thanks
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "johnjung(at)compusenior.com" <johnjung(at)compusenior.com> |
Group,
Now this is getting interesting. A variation of the Firefly designed
by Topher with a four cycle Honda engine developed by Don Gherardini is
the kind of thing that could get me back to building.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric Rivet Holes |
Ken J and all,
Read this tip from TNK website:
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/html/body_wing_covering.html
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: Jabiru 2200, 506 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MV 2004 - I'm in |
Hi John B.
I was starting to wonder if you had forgot to check your email. Real glad
to have your hat in the ring.
Gouldings and UT25 are the same place.
Any chance you can get away for Sun n'Fun next April?
When I get my new engine working, I'm going to take you up on the ferry boat
rides.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: Jabiru 2200, 506 hours (soon to be Rotax 912 ULS)
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
| Subject: | Fabric Rivet Holes |
Thanks for the WEB site I should have found it myself, but now I'm even
denser than before
From Kolb site on
Wing Covering
( This said top of full ribs )
Drill only the full ribs on the top side. Do not drill through the tubing as
it will render the rib unusable. Drill approx. half way.
Do not drill the rib where the Gusset is attached. Leave =BD" space from the
rivets for the gusset. This may alter the 4" spacing slightly but that is
OK.
(This said Bottom of full also )
There are (2) Top False Ribs and (1) Bottom false Rib between each Full Rib.
Drill the Bottom False Rib on the bottom side. Do Not Drill the Top False
Rib. Drill the full length of the Wing Rib on the bottom side also.
After gluing the fabric on, use a soldering iron to burn a hole in the
fabric at the rivet holes. After applying the1/2" tape, burn the holes
again.
So both top and bottom of full ribs just double checking be fore I go a
drilling
Thanks
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric Rivet Holes |
>
>
> I'm current working on the wings of MKIII Xtra and the "book say's to
drill
> fabric rivet holes about every 4" on the ribs"
>
> My question is this Does this include the bottom of the rib? ( don't think
> so but just checking)
Ken,
Yes, this does include the bottom of the ribs, as well as the bottom false
ribs between the full ribs. My bottom false ribs have four evenly spaced
rivets, and the bottom of the full ribs have eleven rivets. From my photo
album, it looks like the top of the full ribs have seven, maybe eight
rivets, they are evenly spaced starting 3 or four inches from the rear spar
working forward to where the curve in the wing starts. The top side false
ribs DO NOT get rivets. The general rule is to only put rivets where the
ribs are straight. Make all your rivets in a straight line spanwise by
using a chalkline.
>
> Do I start from the front of the rib and work to the back?
I started at the rear spar and worked forward and placed the bottom false
rib rivets inline with the main rib ones, measure carefully and make sure
the rivet lines do not interfere with gussets and rib attatch rivets on
either false or full ribs. My front bottom rivets are further from the front
of the wing than my rear most rivets are from the rear of the wing, but the
spacing between rivets is consistant except for places where interferance
with other structural rivets forced me to vary rivet line spacing a little.
>
> Or is it only on the top from the back ( trailing edge) to just before the
> leading edge?
On the top, you only put rivets from the rear until just before the curve
begins, I recall that the fabric rivets end pretty much on top of the wing
spar.
>
> My instruction manual does not have a location pic of the rivets hole and
> the only info is on page 45 of the written manual..
>
I also had to get advice from this list and what I had seen at a Kolb open
house about this area.
> I have made a drilling jig the slips over the rib and centers of the hole
I
> just don't want to drill to few or to many holes.
I also had to make a second drill jig that allowed for the rib gussets in a
couple places, here is where you really have to be careful not to put fabric
rivets too close to rib rivets. You may not need this offset jig, but the
one you made will make the job a snap.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ken
>
> Good luck,
You are getting close to the flying.
Sincerely,
Dennis Rowe, MK-3 N616DR, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
/re:flyhonda/ WISH LIST
John J.
You flatter me pard..and I dont deserve it!
But your post reminds me of a feature that I've seen in some magazines that
I think might be of use here . The Wish List! and with the xmas season at
hand...it seems appropriate fot the time. Also It might have some benefit
to TNK company...kind of a lobbying effort...or input you might say.
Everyone might put there best suggestions into the hat, and we could forward
it to Linda at TNK. With Matt's archive's it would be easy to copy em all
into one doc to send.
I have changed the subject line accordingly, and here is my contribution.
Surely Santa follows this list don't he?
Kolb Wish List.
1. 3 inches more headroom and 3 inchs more elbow room in a FireFly cabin.(6
inch wider cabin)
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Xmas Wish List. |
2. If you are going to offer the spring steel landing gear legs and charge
$400.00+ for them please build them properly. Weld a steel tube to the
socket end of the legs like the Old Kolb did so that the gear legs don't
damage the landing gear sockets.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Xmas Wish List.
>
> /re:flyhonda/ WISH LIST
>
The Wish List! and with the xmas season at
> hand...it seems appropriate fot the time. Also It might have some benefit
> to TNK company...kind of a lobbying effort...or input you might say.
> Everyone might put there best suggestions into the hat, and we could
forward
> it to Linda at TNK. With Matt's archive's it would be easy to copy em all
> into one doc to send.
> I have changed the subject line accordingly, and here is my contribution.
> Surely Santa follows this list don't he?
>
>
> Kolb Wish List.
>
> 1. 3 inches more headroom and 3 inchs more elbow room in a FireFly
cabin.(6
> inch wider cabin)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
| Subject: | Fabric Rivet Holes |
Thanks all
Will be a drilling fool tonight.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fabric Rivet Holes |
You probably know this but better to say something early - you only drill
thru the side of the tubing which the fabric would lay against, not clear
through the entire tube.
jerb
>
>
>Thanks all
>
>Will be a drilling fool tonight.
>
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2004 |
| From: | Jim Hefner <hefner_tucson(at)netzero.com> |
Hello John, all,
I've been out of the Kolb-list loop for a while, with lots going on, so hadn't
seen the Monument Valley 2004 discussion before now. I will plan to try to make
it up there again this year for some or all of it, since last year was such
a great time. Not sure if I will be able to bring the FF and trailer or not,
since I still have a few loose ends at this point... but would still enjoy seeing
everyone, plus some new faces, with or without my plane.... I might play
Larry's part this year... or maybe he will still be grounded... :) Sorry Lar,
couldn't resist.... hope you have Vamoose flying high by then!
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ FF#022 447, 66" IVO 2 blade, BRS-750, 155hrs
Kolb Flyers,
After reading and comparing the different replies about the Monument Valley
experience,
I am planning on 14-17 May 2004 at Monument Valley.
I called the FSO's at Page, AZ and was told there are no facilities for camping
on the airfield and the closet place to eat is .8 miles away.
So far I have counted eleven Kolbers that have expressed interest in the trip.
The parking area is big and can hold some more airplanes. Spring 2004 flying
season
is just around the corner.
I have also updated my website to reflect Sun 'n Fun 2004 and the Alaska 2004
trips.
If a route goes near your place and you want to join up for a while it will
be fun.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolb Kolbra: Jabiru 2200, 506 hours
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Olenik engine sale |
Kolbers,
I got an E-ad from Tom Olenik at Olenik Aviation today, he says all his engines
are on sale and has free shipping right now on orders over $100, if you are close
to needing a Rotax or HKS you might want to check his web sight out, he has
a lot of cool goodies there to treat yourself to an early Christmas present.
On top of all that, Tom is a heck of a good guy.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
This is not a payed add. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Olenik Aviation" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com> |
| Subject: | Olenik engine sale |
Denny,
That's really only for local customers.... at least with Rotax
engines.....sorry.
Tom Olenik
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Denny Rowe
Subject: Kolb-List: Olenik engine sale
Kolbers,
I got an E-ad from Tom Olenik at Olenik Aviation today, he says all his
engines are on sale and has free shipping right now on orders over $100, if
you are close to needing a Rotax or HKS you might want to check his web
sight out, he has a lot of cool goodies there to treat yourself to an early
Christmas present. On top of all that, Tom is a heck of a good guy.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
This is not a payed add. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
Kolbers,
Here is a few for the "Tips" file.
1. After watching my wife file away at those finger nails, it hit me."Dang wonder
if those emery boards would work on the leading edge gussets that are sharp
as razor blades?" Stole a couple from her and tried them out. Work great! Its
like having emery cloth glued to a pop cycle stick.
2. This one came from Mark German. When inserting the inserts in the trailing edge
of the wing, use heater hose clamps to compress the inserts so they can be
slid in real easy.
3. If your building a Kolbra. This one also from mark. cut the inboard leading
edge tube of the wing at about 2 degrees to allow clearance to the windshield.
The plans don't call for it but the factory model is cut this way.
Headed of to the shop to uncover more mysteries about building a Kolbra!
Paul Petty
Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMe5430944(at)aol.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Olenik Aviation" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com> |
| Subject: | Olenik engine sale |
I don't think my last message went through.... I can only sell Rotax engines
to local customers.... like you Denny.
Sorry guys. Not my rules.
Tom Olenik
Olenik Aviation - Supplying the lighter side of sport aviation.
Level III Repair Station for Rotax Aircraft Engines
Dealer for Summit Powered Parachutes
http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com
Toll Free: 877-AIR-MOTORS
Buy from a dealer who can support what they sell......
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Denny Rowe
Subject: Kolb-List: Olenik engine sale
Kolbers,
I got an E-ad from Tom Olenik at Olenik Aviation today, he says all his
engines are on sale and has free shipping right now on orders over $100, if
you are close to needing a Rotax or HKS you might want to check his web
sight out, he has a lot of cool goodies there to treat yourself to an early
Christmas present. On top of all that, Tom is a heck of a good guy.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
This is not a payed add. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
Speaking of Honda. Does anyone know what ever happened to the Cam
100 Honda Civic engines? I always thought that they had some potential.
-- Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | FireFly for sale in El Paso, TX |
FOR SALE, Kolb Firefly. 447 Engine with 6 hours, flown locally, has electric
starter, exhaust and intake silencers' full instruments including EIS.
Plane was professionally built by Light Speed Aviation at Kolb in 2000. Has
full enclosure kit, aluminum wheels, with 6 inch tires, IVO 60 inch 3 blade
propeller, 2 inch magnetic compass, all powder coating. Bad health forces sale.
Contact Don Mekeel at DMe5430944(at)aol.com or call 915-755-6058. price $10,000
includes custom built trailer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rwpike(at)charter.net> |
As one who was a culprit in the unpleasantness currently troubling the
list, I would like to express my apologies to the list members. It will not
happen again.
Merry Christmas and Tailwinds to all
Richard Pike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMe5430944(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Kolb for sale |
(if it isn't spam),
"see
the administrator of that system for details.
Content preview": the.address.should.be.El.Paso.Texas.79904(at)matronics.com,
phone
915-755-6058 Return-path: "<DMe5430944(at)aol.com> From: DMe5430944(at)aol.com
Full-name: DMe5430944 Message-ID:" <155.288712d4.2cfbcc41(at)aol.com> Date:
Sun,
30 Nov 2003 17:42:09.EST.X-ASG-Orig-Subj:Kolb.for.sale.Subject:X-Mailer:AOL.5.0.for.Windows.sub.138[...]Content.analysis.details:pts.rule.name.description.----.----------------------.--------------------------------------------------.1.7.FROM_WEBMAIL_END_N,
at.a.big.ISP(at)matronics.com
the address should be El Paso Texas 79904, phone 915-755-6058
From: DMe5430944(at)aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:42:09 EST
Subject: Kolb for sale
FOR SALE, Kolb Firefly. 447 Engine with 6 hours, has been flown only 4 times,
flown locally, has electric starter, exhaust silencer, intake stealth
attachment, full instruments including EIS. Plane was professionally built by Low
Speed Aviation at Kolb in 2000. Has full enclosure kit, aluminum wheels, with 6
inch tires, IVO 60 inch 3 blade propeller, 2 inch magnetic compass, all powder
coating. Bad health forces sale. See at hanger 12723 Starduster or call
755-6058. price $10,000 includes custom built trailer. Don Mekeel owner, 9019
Magnetic St.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
I, for one, would not want to go
> scooting through the air propelled by a Corvair. Well,
> maybe if I had a ground crew to pick up the parts and
> provide a resupply of oil for me.
I remembered the first time I heard about putting a corvair on a new home
built ( Dragonfly) I thought the guy was nuts. Then I did the research. The
engines are very dependable and smooth running. New technology on seals has
eliminated the oil leakage. Some of these engines are mounted with out
shock mounts to aircraft frames because they run so smooth. Saw one at Osh
last summer and met Wmm Winn the Corvair Guru. Sweet looking engine
package. 110 hp at 230 pounds wet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Davis - Comcast" <davis207(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Exhaust Cleaning |
Thanks to every one for their info. I did find some phosphoroc acid. Home
depot sells it in a pump spray, like Pledge or Windex.
One more question: several people mentioned after cleaning to "paint
directly over the metal." I also found some Zinc Chromate primer in a
spray can at a Marine supply shop. That's about as good a primer as you can
get, but will it take 1200 F?
FYI, I am aware of the hazards and precautions required when using zinc
chromate spray.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Turkeyshoot |
The squadron pilots gathered around their leader to hear the briefing for
the morning patrol. All were determined to avenge their fellow pilot
Wolfgang "Larry" von Volkswagon. Shot down by the notorious Twinstar
pilot, Hawk, Larry had been favorite at the squadron mess. Now a prisoner,
barefoot, the fate of the hapless Larry worried his mates in the squadron,
who missed his endless optimism.
"Dearly beloved," intoned the Padre, "No, wait a minute", he interrupted,
flipping through his briefing book. "Wrong chapter. Here we go," he
continued. "Keep the EGT below 1150 at all costs, and climb at 55 mph and
6400 rpm, or you'll freeze up for sure. And if you dive on the enemy, hit
the prime a couple time to keep from getting too lean, even if it means you
have to wait to arm the Spandaus. Remember, we've set the jets to give you
the greatest chance of getting home, but if you chop the throttle in a dive
the Hun in the Sun will be the least of your worries. As for the transition
from climb to cruise." the Padre droned on, and many of the squadron
fidgeted, anxious to come to grips with the enemy.
Meanwhile, at Surly-St. Gantt, the squadron leader strode before the young
pilots at attention on the flight line. "Remember," he emphasized,
"two-strokes are not evil".
The scouts looked at each other, unbelieving. "I flew two-strokes myself,"
said the Hawk. A murmur of disbelief fluttered through the squadron. "Yes,
it's true," squadron leader Hawk confirmed. "It's not the engine, it's the
pilot that makes a plane unworthy," stated the squadron leader, and the
pilots shifted uneasily at this heresy. But their concern over the squadron
leader's statements was cut short by the scream of a dozen overlean
twostrokes diving on Surly-St. Gantt, Spandaus rattling...
To be continued..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Cowan <tcowan1917(at)direcway.com> |
Well, getting the bug. Some of our group from Florida and beyond were
thinking of going to Monument Valley last year but our fly in ran right in
the middle of it. They wanted to go a week later but that fizzled. Bev and
I decided to go out west but make a month of it. Great time. The only
place we did not see was that particular area (on purpose). Now, you are
talking about the third weekend in May. That could be doable. Gonna see if
I can light the fire under my brothers in the South and maybe I can trailer
my little 'Greezed Lightn'n' Slingshot behind my ole Winnie and join you all
in the air. (Cannot leave Bev behind) If we do, it would add about four or
five more planes to your arsenal. I really would love to fly that area.
Seems it would be something you would never forget. By the way, does the
Slingshot have enough wing to fly in that altitude and heat? Gotta 582 IVO
pushing it and it will do 90 - 100 if I push on it. Ted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
George R
Firestar driver from ...The Villages now
george r The villages in texas?, also are we supose to type the DO NOT
ARCHIVE if we don't want our message saved? just askin' so i won't do
sumptin' wrong.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Turkeyshoot |
> But their concern over the squadron
> leader's statements was cut short by the scream of a dozen overlean
> twostrokes diving on Surly-St. Gantt, Spandaus rattling...
>
>
> To be continued..
Morning Gang:
Come on Duncan. What's gonna happen next. :-)
john h
PS: Got up laughing with my first cup of coffee this
morning, as I read the adventures by Duncan McBride.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb List Activity |
> John Hauk - 157
> Larry Bourne - 85
> Richard Pike - 83
> Captain Ron - 75
> Paul Petty - 68
> Aaron Hollingsworth - 57
> Richard Neilsen - 42
> Don Gherardini - 35
> Denny Rowe - 34
> Kirk Smith - 33
>
> I agree, some self policing may be desirable.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
Hi Jack/Gang:
I agree wholeheartedly Mr Heart.
BTW: What was the implied purpose of your drill?
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Turkeyshoot |
Duncan,
This is awful good stuff pard!....kinda reminds me of how it is over at
Tommy's Airpark, where I keep my FireFly!
In fact it brings up similies in all kinds of areas to all our aviatin'
brotherhood...like the GA vs UL frictions....Cessna vs Piper.....heck Ford
Vs Chevy!
You are the first that I have seen to put to the pen the 4 stroke vs 2
stroke imagery and I luv it!
It also reminds me that here amoungst our aviatin brothers, we are supposed
to give each other a little chit once in awhile...and we all certainly
should be able to take it without gettin insulted.
I believe that in every list and internet community I participate in...there
is always somebody who gets a tad touchy over somebodys post from time to
time, and I have come to the conclusion long ago that it is not how a post
is written usually, but how it is read.
many things get copied and stuck into my files from this list.....mostly it
has all been tech...but this story....well Duncan...I just cant wait for
part 3!
Keep up the good work Duncan...I have visions of a best seller here!
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
12/03/2003 12:15:22 PM
I too plan on attending the monument valley gig once more. Wife and kid
likely to be tagging along with me. Could someone else please bring their
7 or 8 year old along as well so my kid could be entertained ? Last year
she was stuck trying to teach John H. how to use a Palm Pilot during his
down hours, without much success I might add.
Guess I better get out and get the red dirt from last year off the
underside of the Mrk III. The result of a little scuffle with the water
truck out on the LZ....
See you all there.
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
No Ron, I do not think nor do I want to be the List
Boss or
the boss of anything anywhere anytime.
======================================
John you have a lot of experience with the Kolbs and
that is truly appreciated,, But.....
John I am glad that you agree that you are not the
list Boss. :-)
However if you want to think that you are the list
Boss, sheriff, King, Prince, Moderator, Commanding
Donkey, First Sergeant, or Alpha Male. Its OK.
The most important part in my post is also the one you
chose to ignore,,, ** its the part about your recent
nasty replies and retorts **. That's the part you need
to address. Not the part as to whether you are the
boss or if somebody else is the boss, or if someone
wants to push you off the top of the pyramid. The
impression that you give is that of a man that is on
the verge of loosing it anytime someone does not agree
with him. The favorite come back that you have when
its pointed out to you, is saying that you are not the
List Boss (usually emphasizing that about 20 times in
less than 5 words) :-). That you are just another
member of the list, and again of course emphasizing
that you are not the * boss * as you have done just
now. Its entertaining but in the context of the Kolb
list not constructive to * all * the members.
Anyway even if you are not the List Boss, or the
dominating alpha male, wouldn't it be nice if you
tried to be just like the rest? :-)
See some people may actually think that you are not
the Boss here, and get offended with your unwarranted
snippy remarks. lets be civil John. Polarizing the
list is really not a good thing.
One snippy remark begets another snippy remark and the
whole thing ends up being a place where the music is
too loud.
This list is growing John and things are not the way
they were, new people come in and they expect better
than, "I crushed my Kolb 200 times and I survived",
and that I flew around Earth 70 times on one quart of
gas in my snappy snazzy super modified MR Pepper flyer
so you better agree with me cozz I am the local hero.
;-)
For what its worth to you John, that's my impression
of you.
This is not meant to offend but to inform you.
Cheers
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kuffel <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: monument valley |
Group,
The Whitefish Boss sez we can go back to Monument Valley this May also.
She is even willing to camp instead of renting a motel room in order to
shake down our gear for the Grand Alaska Kolb Trek.
<>
We will probably bring our puppy, she will be about 8 in dog years.
Then again, the WF Boss claims I often act like an 8 year old so your
girl should have lots of company. (Any other listers have similar shoes
which fit?)
<>
Almost be worth buying one to get the tutoring. After 40 years
programming the beasts I'm hopelessly out of date in the personal
computing world.
<>
I'll try to get Boss Betty to clean the oil off the underside of the
Prospector which was deposited on the way back from MV last year when
the prop seal failed. As long as she makes me do most of the piloting,
I make her do most of the cleaning. (Not a gender division of labor he
said, trying to get out of politically correct trouble. If she'd do
most of the stick work then I'd do most of the scrubbing.)
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
Flying Homebuilt Prospector N5XK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joel Reed" <jfreed(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Resale value???s |
Hello Kolbers,
I have been considering changing the engine on my 1993 Kolb Mark III. I am
now currently flying with a Rotax 582 Blue head turning a 68" IVO prop. The
engine works great and I like it, however I dislike the high fuel burn and I am
somewhat more interested in turning over to a 4 stroke engine. A Rotax 912
would probably be the best direction, but my budget is not that level. And as
of now I have been considering alternatives such as VW engine from Great Plains,
Geo Metro/Raven redrive. I was just wondering if any of you guys would
know if those engine would have alot of effect on the resale value of my plane?
Bad or good?
I would appreciate any input. Thanks
Joel Reed
1993 Kolb Mark III
Lancaster, Pa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb List Activity |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
> > John Hauk - 157
> > Larry Bourne - 85
> > Richard Pike - 83
> > Captain Ron - 75
> > Paul Petty - 68
> > Aaron Hollingsworth - 57
> > Richard Neilsen - 42
> > Don Gherardini - 35
> > Denny Rowe - 34
> > Kirk Smith - 33
> >
> > I agree, some self policing may be desirable.
> >
> > Jack B. Hart FF004
OK, here we go again! This will be twice in two days that I have felt
compelled to post to this list. I will have to pace myself, lest I be lumped
in with the "Mouthy list". The question that the original post brought to
mind was as follows. Yes these people form the most active part of this
list. Having said that, the fact that they post often to the list doesn't
mean that someone else is deprived of that right. Correct? What it actually
means is that these are the people that respond to questions that are
brought up by the newer builders and people that are wanting to do things
that will make their planes a bit more convenient or better. I can recall a
time earlier that Hauk was vacationing, and there was a flyin somewhere that
the other "mouthy" members were attending. One of the questions posed to a
oddly empty list was- "Is the list still working"? " Where is every body"?
If I may make a suggestion- If some of these listed people get on your
nerves and you don't want to see what they have to say, then by all means
head them off at the pass. Open the message, click on the "MESSAGE" on the
tool bar, click on 'CREATE RULE FROM THIS MESSAGE, the first option will be-
WHERE THE FROM LINE CONTAINS PEOPLE, that should be checked, the next option
will give you the choice of MOVING IT TO A DIFFERENT FOLDER, DELETING IT, OR
FORWARDING IT. Chose DELETE IT, and you will still have the rest of the list
without being bothered by any of these people again. Personally I appreciate
the fact that they are willing to comment on the things that are brought
forward for discussion. I may not always agree with them, but if you don't
mind I would just as soon that you take the above suggestion for yourself
and let the rest of us make up our own mind about the worth of their
comments.
Your humble Servant,
Larry, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resale value???s |
.com>
>
> Hello Kolbers,
>
> I have been considering changing the engine on my 1993 Kolb Mark III.
I am now currently flying with a Rotax 582 Blue head turning a 68" IVO prop.
The engine works great and I like it, however I dislike the high fuel burn
and I am somewhat more interested in turning over to a 4 stroke engine. A
Rotax 912 would probably be the best direction, but my budget is not that
level. And as of now I have been considering alternatives such as VW
engine from Great Plains, Geo Metro/Raven redrive. I was just wondering
if any of you guys would know if those engine would have alot of effect on
the resale value of my plane? Bad or good?
> I would appreciate any input. Thanks
> Joel Reed
> 1993 Kolb Mark III
> Lancaster, Pa
Joel,
You might keep a close eye out for a used 912, good ones are around in the
$6-7k neighborhood from folks who switched to the 912S model.
Just a thought.
Dennis Rowe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resale value???s |
I would like to think that putting a VW on a Kolb would make it worth a
fortune...... Well back to reality I think that a VW or GEO engine would
reduce the resale value. These engine aren't main stream and most people
don't know much about them. At some point when enough people are flying VWs
in MKIIIs this will change. When this happens someone will step forward and
offer engine packages for the MKIII and people will wonder why anyone ever
put a 2 stroke on a MKIII and maybe even a 912????? I can't speak for the
GEO but the HP ratings look to be a bit low for a MKIII. The reduction drive
VW performs on par with the 912 and burns 4 gallons per hour. I had a long
talk with Gene Smith at Valley Engineering tonight. He was telling me he is
working on a 2.5 to one reduction redrive with a 8 foot prop that will be
used in a Dawn Patrol Biplane. He claims that with that prop on his airplane
he can climb almost strait up.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Reed" <jfreed(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Resale value???s
>
> Hello Kolbers,
>
> I have been considering changing the engine on my 1993 Kolb Mark III.
I am now currently flying with a Rotax 582 Blue head turning a 68" IVO prop.
The engine works great and I like it, however I dislike the high fuel burn
and I am somewhat more interested in turning over to a 4 stroke engine. A
Rotax 912 would probably be the best direction, but my budget is not that
level. And as of now I have been considering alternatives such as VW
engine from Great Plains, Geo Metro/Raven redrive. I was just wondering
if any of you guys would know if those engine would have alot of effect on
the resale value of my plane? Bad or good?
> I would appreciate any input. Thanks
> Joel Reed
> 1993 Kolb Mark III
> Lancaster, Pa
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Thompson" <eagle1(at)commspeed.net> |
Me thinks your skin is much too thin.
The Bald Eagle of Az.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Linda Smalley" <kelinda(at)mindspring.com> |
any chance to find a slightly used mark 3 xtra with 912s. if anyone has any leads
let me know. ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: building wings |
Larry/Paul/Gang:
Here's an easier way to make the main spar gussets of the
wing ribs fit the main spar. If the gusset is too
small/tight, it takes about two seconds to enlarge the hole.
Be careful or you will make it too big.
Remember your Mama's rolling pin? You can make a rolling
pin out of some scrap aluminum tubing. Hold the rib between
your knees, stick your rolling pin through the main spar
gusset, make several revolutions around the inside of the
hole. Stick it on the main spar to see if it is large
enough to slide on. If not, make a couple more rounds in
the main spar gusset and check you fit again.
Works for me.
That short cut took many years to discover. Prior to that I
did like everybody else does. Look for emery paper, buffing
wheel, sander or something to remove material to make the
hole bigger, which in turn weakens the main spar gusset.
The rolling pin method bends out the edge of the hole that
was made with a die and press.
john h
PS: I think I gave this info to Paul on ICQ some time ago,
but I bet he forgot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
Richard,
I read and re-read your Corvair msg and I can't quite figure out what you
are aplogizing for.
You may not be the list boss - but you are the big man on the list!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <rwpike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Apology
>
> As one who was a culprit in the unpleasantness currently troubling the
> list, I would like to express my apologies to the list members. It will
not
> happen again.
>
> Merry Christmas and Tailwinds to all
> Richard Pike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Woody, before ya go..I'd like to say thanks for your past contributions.
And I would also like to tell you that you need to make a call to your
ISP...this one, or the new one, as so should everybody else that suffers
from spam, and tell them you want a spam filter...if they dont offer the
service...then tell em G'bye and find one who does. These are services
provided by other contractors to prefilter the mail for spam..they work
fantastic and my isp offers it for 1 dollar a month on top of the reg
bill..along with that you get a virus screening service that auto updates it
definitions twice a day...If all isp's offered it..I bet with no
revenue...the spammers will have to start selling shoes.
Here.....send them this link...the service my ISP uses is Postini....
http://www.postini.com/
Im sure there are lots of these companies...
Sometimes a the squeaky wheel get the oil Woody!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride(at)comcast.net> |
All the pilots scatter as a hail of bullets strike the turf around their
planes! The scream of the racing engines is pierced by the rattle of the
guns and they dive for cover.
"Up and at 'em, boys!"
Squadron Leader Hawk dragged Pilot Officer Green to his feet and pushed him
towards his Twinstar. Untangling pilots Bickham and Williamson he points
them in the direction of their kites and rushes to his own brightly painted
fighter, Miss P'fer. All the pilots scramble for their craft in a mad rush
to take off before the enemy squadron can return for a second pass. But the
Tuned-Port Circus doesn't circle to follow up on their surprise attack, and
disappears over the horizon, the dentist's drill scream of their exhaust
slowly receding in the morning mist.
Only then do the pilots notice the pair of boots in the center of the field.
Squadron Leader Hawk leaped out of his scout and leads his men to the
scuffed footgear. From the boots he pulls a white note and reads aloud to
the assembled pilots, "Reims at 10? Some have to wait that long for their
sleepy engines to warm their crankcase. We don't"
Hawk tosses the boots in the back of his Twinstar. "All right boys, let's
go."
The pilots return to their planes and the squadron takes off for the fateful
rendevous.
............
The squadron circles in echelon formation over Reims. It is 10 AM.
Squadron Leader Hawk scans the clear morning skies, but no other planes are
in sight. He signals to his wingman that they'll continue to wait. But no
planes appear. Circling until they have only enough fuel to return to base,
the squadron never sees another fighter.
Determined to continue the battle, the squadron returns to Surly-St. Gantt
to refuel. But instead of the usual sleepy aerodrome, they find chaos. The
chateau they had made their quarters was a smoking ruin! Quickly they land
to find the mechanics still trying to put out the last of the flames. And
something looked odd about the little shed across the field that housed
their prisoner.
"What happened, Sergeant-General?"
The grizzled veteran looked over the assemble pilots, staring with dismay at
their ruined quarters.
"Well, looks like you boys will be sleeping in the hangar. While you were
waiting for a fight over Reims, the Tuned-Port Circus came back and bombed
your chateau. And while we were getting strafed, one of them landed and cut
loose your prisoner."
As one the pilots turned to look at the shed, and sure enough the door was
blown off it's hinges.
"Curses! That wily Padre has done it again!"
With greater determination than ever, but with grudging respect for their
clever enemy, the pilots slowly begin to sift through the wreckage of their
bombed-out chateau.
Back at Blountvilleshire Aerodrome, his happy mates greeted Larry as he
climbed out of the Padre's Twinstar.
"Hey, were you surprised to see us?" "What did you think when the chateau
blew up?"
Larry rolled out of the plane and grinned at his rescuers, only to grimace
in pain and grab at a thorn in his bare foot.
"First things first, guys. Where are my boots?"
what else..to be continued (maybe a while, I'm traveling for a week. See
ya)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Lawton" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Airfoil Software Programs |
Topher,
That's interesting to me. Do you have any links to URL's or maybe names of
programs that I could "google" out more information? I'm looking for
extremely "slow" stall speed characteristics, top end doesn't matter.
Thanks in advance,
Doug Lawton
NE Georgia & Whitwell TN
Topher wrote:
"...Nothing really wrong with the Kolb airfoil but better ones are
available. Higher lift to drag with better stall characteristics. I could
spend 30 minutes with a cfd program on my home computer starting from
scratch right now and come up with a better airfoil then the Kolb airfoil.
The tools available now just are so good (and free) that you
can do things that you couldn't do before. "
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Airfoil Software Programs |
Topher...
I like your idea also...although I dont know if an easier to build airfoil
would be the result. Still maybe I just need to learn how. I must say I have
always wondered about those concave bottom foils..like a kitfox. How do they
get the fabric to stick to them? I have also wondered about the 9deg angle
of incedence the kolb wing has. Would it fly faster if it was at a lower
angle?...surely..but alas the lift would be lessened. Your suggestion
certainly does make the ole gears grind tho!
Any suggestions on a CFD program that an engineer whos got his degree before
IBM invented the word "'PC"..? In other words , with a not to steep a
learning curve!
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Elder" <billelder(at)denver.net> |
| Subject: | Mark III Classic Launch |
On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time. Needless to say, after 4 years
of building, it was a glorious sight and pretty emotional for me to watch.
I had a guy fly it for me as he does first flights for many in Colorado.
He took it up to 9000 MSL, so high I lost sight of it. After .7 hr, he returned
and landed - champagne all around. But he had two major concerns - aft CG
and elevator control stiffness. I knew the CG was aft, but less than 35%MAC.
I'll install some weight in the nose. CG problem due to heavy engine (912S)
and a third fuel tank I put in behind the two 5 gal tanks. Control stiffness
due to elevator control cables too tight (I was trying to prevent the wires slapping
in the tail boom). Relatively easy to fix these problems. Many thanks
to John Hauck for all your advice, also thanks to Big Lar. Without this list,
I'd still be building so thanks to you all! Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Classic Launch |
> On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time.
> Bill
Hi Bill/All:
My hearty congratulations for first flight.
What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when
the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would
have downed a 747.
Don't be too quick to start loading the nose down with lead.
You may not need all that heavy ballast up there.
I don't know your test pilot, what kind of flight
conditions, maneuvers, airspeeds, etc., that he used to
determine you had an after CG problem. I would be glad to
discuss with him his test flight and see if I can glean more
info from him.
During slow flight, below 50 or 60 mph, the MK III will
squat in the tail and fly nose high. Pull in some flap and
the nose will rotate down and fly in a more level attitude.
My old bird really squats when she gets slowed down near the
stall, but let her stall and the nose will mildly drop. In
a spin the nose feels like it is pointing straight down.
Not being a trained test pilot I think the above would
indicate my MK III does not have an aft CG problem. Perhaps
someone with more training and experience, which would not
take much in my case, could straighten me out in that area.
Again good on ya. How did the 912S perform?
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwight.Kottke(at)hti.htch.com |
12/04/2003 12:23:38 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 12:23:38 PM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003)
at
12/04/2003 12:23:26 PM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003)
at
12/04/2003 12:23:29 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/04/2003 12:23:29 PM
I tried to reply to Bryan Greens post looking for an enclosure for a
Firestar, but it did not go through. Anyhow, Bryan, I do fly a Firestar
with a full enclosure. I copied a friends plan and made some of my own
changes. It turned out nice and works great. Up here in Minnesota a full
enclosure sure feels nice, as a matter of fact I leave it on all year. I
can send you some pictures, but you will have to wait until after
Christmas. Santa is bring me a brand new digital camera. I was a very
good boy this year.
P.S. #1. John Hauck, while I'm flying over the central Minnesota corn
fields and ten thousand lakes with my new camera, I will be pretending I'm
your wing man on our way to Alaska. Hey, maybe you'll be flying through
my air space on your way up!
P.S. #2 Don Gherardini, I meet you at Oshkosh this summer, its great to
read about your "Fly Honda" report. I am watching my local Northern Tool
for a freight damaged motor also.
Dwight Kottke
The Flying Farmer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
I guess what all the "too" long dissertation boils
down to
is, if ya don't like what you see in a post, if you
are
bored, if folks ain't writing what you want to be
reading,
HIT THE DELETE KEY.
================================
Well that's true John but the caveat is that you gotta
read it first.
Hey I hope you didn't take my roasting too serious. :-)
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
>
>My apologies to all who may have been hurt, annoyed,
>angered, irritated, and turned off, by anything I have said
>in the past, present, or future. I am a pretty direct
>person. I need to work on tact. I come from a professional
>military background, just like a lot of you all come direct
>from a civilian background. I do not mean to hurt anyone's
>feelings if I tell it like it is. There's a lot of
>indicators left out of email correspondence. We can not see
>the other person's face and eyes, or the situation he is in
>when he writes an email and punched the send key. I don't
>drink anymore and don't do drugs, other than a lot of
>caffeine, so you can't blame my posts on that. :-)
>
>Hopefully, we can all be a little more tolerant of each
>other. I hang out with another group of folks that have
>this motto as one among many, "Live and let live." If you
>don't know what this means, send me an email bc and I will
>try to explain it to you.
>
Followed by the next message:
> On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time.
> Bill
>Hi Bill/All:
>
>My hearty congratulations for first flight.
>
>What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when
>the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would
>have downed a 747.
John,
What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your apology, and you stick the
knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and self analysis sincere? Is
this "Live and let live"?
Enough said, and I am off this topic.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Airfoil Software Programs |
http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/index.htm
this website has a nice program called javafoil. It is easy and gives
fairly decent numbers. He has tons of neat information on his web site
and good links to other programs.
According to Possem the airfoil and rib design in the attached photos
is:
They've built about 6 or 7 now with that wing and 503 dual carbs.
Takes up two people easy. Cuts through the air better than mine
and is supposed to fly slower and faster than my ribs (Kolb ribs).
I know they can climb as well and fly at least as fast as me -
even with an extra three feet of wing.
They have the data at the farm and the name of the airfoil.
I'll check this weekend if you really want to know.
It's what "Highsmith" down in Fla. is flying with now, only his has
a 582 on his.
So they have already done most of what I would do.
On the Honda Project hen you get to desiging a flight worthy prop drive
I would toss in my two cents on what you should do.
If you pulled the fan and the shrouds off the engine could you save a
significant amount of weight? If you could get 50 hp out of it for 500
hours stock and keep the weight under 100 pounds with the prop drive you
could just throw the engine away and still be a good deal.
Topher
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Gherardini
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Airfoil Software Programs
<donghe@one-eleven.net>
Topher...
I like your idea also...although I dont know if an easier to build
airfoil
would be the result. Still maybe I just need to learn how. I must say I
have
always wondered about those concave bottom foils..like a kitfox. How do
they
get the fabric to stick to them? I have also wondered about the 9deg
angle
of incedence the kolb wing has. Would it fly faster if it was at a lower
angle?...surely..but alas the lift would be lessened. Your suggestion
certainly does make the ole gears grind tho!
Any suggestions on a CFD program that an engineer whos got his degree
before
IBM invented the word "'PC"..? In other words , with a not to steep a
learning curve!
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
=
==
==
==
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | as the smoke clears |
Kolbers,
Thanks for all the tips on the wing construction. I can't believe that more folks
won't join in the Kolb chat room. It's fun and allows us to get to know each
other. I usually go there everyday around 5:45pm cst and hang out and chat with
James Tripp about what we are working on that day. Stay for 45 minutes or
sometime less. Then with fresh ideas and excitement I head off to the shop to
work on Ms.Dixie. I have met some nice folks in some of the other rooms. The
RV rooms the general room ect. One thing I discovered is that folks will go there
from the link at the bottom of each post without opening their browsers. When
you do this you will not see post in the room.
Before I got caught up in the exciting world of aviation, I rode motorcycles and
when it was to cold or wet to ride I would chat in Yahoo. I met folks from all
over the world that shared the same interest as I and we would all meet up
at the big rallies (Daytona) like you guys do in say MV.
Perhaps if Matt could add a place on the server for personal profiles, for those
who care to, post a photo of themselves and their plane with a little info.I
for one would like to be able to put faces to the many names on the list. Would
also like to put planes with the name. This way when I got to the flyins I
could hunt down the ones I want to meet.
I like the story telling to....
pp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
I got your message Dwight and sent a reply Thanks.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dwight.Kottke(at)hti.htch.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Enclosure
>
> I tried to reply to Bryan Greens post looking for an enclosure for a
> Firestar, but it did not go through. Anyhow, Bryan, I do fly a Firestar
> with a full enclosure. >
> Dwight Kottke
> The Flying Farmer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
Jeez john. Not only are your posts being counted, now they're being timed. I do
reckon this horse is 'bout dead. Whatchall think? Scuse me, I got a Huey to fix.
Later,
Guy
Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGreenpg(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MV 2004 - I'm in |
In a message dated 12/2/03 6:54:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, BICUM(at)aol.com
writes:
Flying with these guys is a blast. I know Gary H has his name in the hat.
How bout Steve Green?
Hey John and all,
I would love to make the trip but I will probably be moving about that time.
I will probably have used most of my vacation time to do the wiring and
pluming on the house. Ya'll have fun.
Steven G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
Thanks for the advise on getting rid of spam. I will try to get my isp to
install a spam blocker. Currently I use "mail washer". It shows me most of
the spam. It also calls good mail spam on occasion so I still have to check
the message titles. Sometimes words like Woody can cause the filter to
activate. Real name is Dick Wood so that combination is not spam filter
friendly either. Sometimes you just have to quit and start fresh.
As for the current war of words going on --- lighten up. Last homecoming
John Hauk pointed his finger at me and called me a foureinger and tried to
kick me out of the Kolb Hanger after I just drove 8 hrs to be there. Luckily
cooler heads prevailed when they noticed the Canadian beer under my arm and
I was allowed to stay. No hard feelings there. Pastor Pike and I have
totally different religeous beliefs but we are sociable and have no problem
helping each other out . Another member told me he thought I was the list
asshole at the home coming. No hard feelings there either. He is entitled to
his opinion but hopefully it has changed once he got used to my occasional
sarcastic sense of humour. A lot of good comes from the list,. as in life it
is made up of diverse personalities. Some good, some bad, some indifferent.
Embrace the ones you like and ignore the rest. Life gets a lot eaier that
way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mark III Classic Launch |
Well done. Always great to hear of a successful first flight. Here's to
many more.
Duncan McBride
Mk 3 319DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Elder" <billelder(at)denver.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mark III Classic Launch
>
> On Tuesday, 2 Dec, my Kolb flew for the first time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Building instructions |
Paul's email got me thinking. Doesn't someone on the list have a web site
with a builder's log and pictures? Maybe just the log would be enough to
get the kind of step by step he is looking for.
Scott Olendorf
Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop.
Schenectady, NY
http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar
======================================================
Originaly posted by: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> I was wondering. The plans do not appear to give a step by step way of
building
> the wings. Like, first do this, second do this and so on. I would like to
hear
> some opinions on what order the construction process should be carried
out.
> Make it simple.
> Something like.
> 1.lay out and measure leading edge.
> 2.insert and drill and rivet wing root
> 3 slide on ribs.
> 4.make trailing edge piece
> 5.install root false nose
> 6.make the tip bow
> and so on. Just a simple deal to keep me from making huge mistakes
hopefully
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Sponson attach for Firestar wing |
This may have gotten lost in all the quarreling...
Does anyone have plans for the sponson attach points to go into a Firestar
II wing?
Scott Olendorf
Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop.
Schenectady, NY
http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately? |
Yah, but, but, but................he's makin' pore ol' Larry the treacherous
bad guy. C'mon Duncan, save him from that terrible fate. Surely Larry's in
the enemy camp in disguise, digging up info to help his buddies.............
?? And - maybe Duncan's efforts will inspire ol' Aluminum Butcher
Beauford to leap back into the fray ??? Lar. Do
not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelvin Kurkowski" <kkurkow(at)chase3000.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What is going wrong with the Kolb List lately?
>
> Guy and Kolbers
> Amen and alleluia!!!!! We sure get an insight of the different
> personalities this way. As someone said recently its good to get together
> and meet face to face. Some of us just can't get away to do that yet in
our
> "life situation", and this is as good as it gets, for us, for now.
> Ol Tom Jefferson said " you can't have self government,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar
>
> Bryan,
>
> I didn't know they had plans for a full enclosure. I come up with my own
enclosure design
> with a little help. It works well but I would do better on the next
attempt.
>
Thanks Scott these pics will help a bunch. What kind of tubing did you use
for the frame? That is sure a pretty Firestar you have.
> >
>
> Almost SKI season. ( for the plane )
>
We only use ski for water around here. :-)
>
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
>
>
> >
> >From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
> >Subject: Kolb-List: enclosure
> >
> >
> >Hey guys, if anyone on the list flying an original Firestar with a full
enclosure
> >has any close up pics would you send me a couple off list. I have the
installation
> >instructions for the old kit and would like to build my own. Do not
archive
> >Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Clearance |
List,
Kinda hard finnishing up my firefly with deer season going on. Thought I
would throw out a question and maybe offer some respite from all the
bickering talk. My 66" prop comes 3/4 " from the tail boom. I have 3 washers between
the Alum. mtg. plate and the lord mnts. I have 2 washers between the engine
and the mtg. plate. Anyone see a problem with putting a total of 5 washers
which would raise the engine enough to give 1" of clearance. Any one else have
to
do this on their Firefly.
Ed ( in Houston)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
In a message dated 12/4/03 2:26:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbhart(at)ldd.net
writes:
> >My hearty congratulations for first flight.
> >
> >What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during a time when
> >the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb List it would
> >have downed a 747.
>
> John,
>
> What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your apology, and you stick the
>
> knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and self analysis sincere? Is
>
> this "Live and let live"?
>
> Enough said, and I am off this topic.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Jackson, MO
>
>
> Jack &Louise Hart
> jbhart(at)ldd.net
>
Jack, pleeeeez...you are being WAY too thin skinned....don't you recognize
his sense of humor??? And you are a very good contributor to this list too!!!
wasssup buddy??!!
George Randolph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com> |
| Subject: | re: Full Enclosure on original Firestar |
Bryan,
I used 6061T6 7/8 x .049 for the front and top bow. I think I used 1/2 x
.028 for the frames around the lexan. That's what I ordered anyway. And
piano hinge for the lexan #ms20257p2. I made the hinge so that it folds
over itself when the door is closed to make it as narrow as possible.
----- Original Message -----
>
> Bryan,
>
> I didn't know they had plans for a full enclosure. I come up with my own
enclosure design
> with a little help. It works well but I would do better on the next
>attempt.
>Thanks Scott these pics will help a bunch. What kind of tubing did you use
>for the frame? That is sure a pretty Firestar you have.
>>
>> Almost SKI season. ( for the plane )
>We only use ski for water around here. :-)
>Bryan Green Elgin SC
>Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
| Subject: | Vibration Dampeners? |
Hi Kolbsters,
Did anyone have first hand experience with the rotax hydro dampener
that bolts onto the mag. flywheel rotax part # 965-497? Do they make a
big difference? Are they worth $175?? Also what is the best electric
start system for a 582/w C box? -- Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: building wings |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Larry/Paul/Gang:
>
> Here's an easier way to make the main spar gussets of the
> wing ribs fit the main spar. If the gusset is too
> small/tight, it takes about two seconds to enlarge the hole.
> Be careful or you will make it too big.
>
> Remember your Mama's rolling pin? You can make a rolling
> pin out of some scrap aluminum tubing. Hold the rib between
> your knees, stick your rolling pin through the main spar
> gusset, make several revolutions around the inside of the
> hole. Stick it on the main spar to see if it is large
> enough to slide on. If not, make a couple more rounds in
> the main spar gusset and check you fit again.
>
> Works for me.
>
> That short cut took many years to discover. Prior to that I
> did like everybody else does. Look for emery paper, buffing
> wheel, sander or something to remove material to make the
> hole bigger, which in turn weakens the main spar gusset.
>
> The rolling pin method bends out the edge of the hole that
> was made with a die and press.
>
> john h
A Tip I wish I had learned earlier.
Spray the spar with WD40. You will be amazed at how easily the ribs fit
and slide on without scratching and galling the spar even with a tight
fit which is actually good.
EZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Full enclosure on Original Kolb Firestar |
In a message dated 12/4/03 8:36:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
solendor(at)nycap.rr.com writes:
> http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar/firepic.htm
What type of heater did you install?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
>
>>
>
>Jack, pleeeeez...you are being WAY too thin skinned....don't you recognize
>his sense of humor??? And you are a very good contributor to this list too!!!
>wasssup buddy??!!
>
>George Randolph
>
George,
I believe the main purpose of the list is to promote interest in, and to help people
to build and fly Kolb aircraft. I do not consider the humor displayed as
healthy or helpful to the List.
I like and I enjoy humor. But on a list like this one must be very careful not
to paint with too broad a brush and belittle others choices or desire for change.
The Wright brothers did a good job of getting things started, but if it
was not for innovation, we would still be warping wings and using skids for landing
gear. I do not know Homer personally, but I believe he would be the last
to say that his designs could not be improved upon. So when a general humor
statement is made about some list activity, such as, an engine, a propeller,
or a design change and it is not addressed specifically to some person on the
list, it may easily be interpreted as a "cheap shot" or at the very best "dark
humor". This casts a shadow over the list and discourages others (lurkers) from
joining the discussions and asking questions, and some may even leave the
list.
After building my FireFly and getting it in the air, I was disappointed with the
way it flew. The changes over the years have made it a joy to fly. Everyone
who comes to this list should be able to have their questions addressed in a
serious, well thought out and straight forward manner, so that they can have
as much fun as I do.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vibration Dampeners? |
----- Original Message -----
> Hi Kolbsters,
> Did anyone have first hand experience with the rotax hydro dampener
> that bolts onto the mag. flywheel rotax part # 965-497? Do they make a
> big difference? Are they worth $175?? Also what is the best electric
> start system for a 582/w C box? -- Earl
>
Earl,
I do not have experience with the Rotax flywheel damper, but I do have a
Balance Master prop balancer on my Mk-3 and even though my 2SI - Powerfin
combo is a pretty smooth running unit, I do notice an improvement with the
Balancer installed. I have also tried the balancer on my 503 powered Loehle
and saw a noticable reduction in vibration.
I beleive Balance Master also makes a flywheel balancer for Rotax engines,
you may want to check their price.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Native American Artist <cartoonface2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | I don't have a dang Kolb |
Hello everyone,
I don't have ANY aircraft at all actually but I AM interested in the Kolb
MkIII Xtra.
I was fortunate enough to find this forum. I like it!
It has everything. Technical info, and info about the people who, design,
build, fly and improve ultralight aircraft.
It also has an element that is essential for the survival of
mankind....really! Communication!...of everything I just mentioned and more.
Jokes, jabs, jocularity and even real writing talent ( Flying
Corvair)...actually there is lot's of talent within you all.
So...like Ronnie Wehba, I don't care for TV but just like TV...if I get to
something I don't like, I click out of it and move on.
It's good to have a forum that doesn't sit in a hangar and rot....but gets
used.
The Monument Valley trip you all had last year as discribed by: John Hauck
(jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com) Re: Re: Monument Valley 2004 Date: Wed Dec 03 -
3:30 PM ...... sounds very Kewl!
You're good people.
Marty
http://cartoonface.com
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
Captain Ron wrote:
"For what its worth to you John, that's my impression
of you." ( ... and we all read the text)
Ron, and Kolb Friends -
I normally do not jump in to these arguments, but I felt obliged to say
something here ...
Your rude comments about John Hauck made for the most childish and
inappropriate post I've seen on this List in the 6 years I've been on it.
Most folks on this List respect John's input, which is all backed by his
extensive Kolb-building and -flying experiences, and accounts for more than
anyone else on this List. That fact alone puts John "on the top of the
pyramid" (your words) in my book. We may not always agree with everything
he posts, but nobody has stooped as low as you to be so insulting when we
disagree. John has never personnaly attacked other members with whom he
disagreed, as you have done.
Ron, I think YOU are the one with the problem here.
This List was much more friendly before you joined. If you want to be the
"local hero," then go find another e-mail list to infect with your nasty
attitude - your kind of input is not welcome here.
Dennis Kirby
New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Clearance |
DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> List,
>
> Kinda hard finnishing up my firefly with deer season going on. Thought I
> would throw out a question and maybe offer some respite from all the
> bickering talk. My 66" prop comes 3/4 " from the tail boom. I have 3 washers
between
> the Alum. mtg. plate and the lord mnts. I have 2 washers between the engine
> and the mtg. plate. Anyone see a problem with putting a total of 5 washers
> which would raise the engine enough to give 1" of clearance. Any one else have
to
> do this on their Firefly.
>
> Ed ( in Houston)
>
Ed,
Not sure why you want to raise the engine, the clearance of the prop to the boom
is not
a problem. I too thought at first that it was very close, but have realized after
many
hours of flight, that for the prop to strike the boom something very bad has already
happened and will ruin your day.
I am swinging the same prop as you and have had no problems in 255 hr.'s
Hope this helps, Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420(at)motorola.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb Holiday Spirit |
Kolbers,
I had the last few days off due to my 38th birthday. When I came back to catch
up on the Kolb list posts, I was both amazed and saddened.
This is an amazing time that we live in! And this is an amazing time of year when
a special kind a spirit resides. A spirit that even stopped the war in WWI
and both sides came out of the deadly trenches and celebrated this time of year
together. I'm sure if arch enemies could do that, this list of brotherhood
can take care and have concern and healthy holiday spirit for one another.
I for one am very thankful for my nation, freedoms, family, God, health, and for
my airplane and for the brothers on this Kolb list. May you all have a wonderful
Christmas and Christmas spirit!
Happy holidays!
Tim Gherkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over the
list, and wish he would stop.
Well to explain what's up is simple. As it is obvious
to most John H has for the past several months
insulted a whole bunch of people. Setting aside for a
moment his "I am Not the List Boss/Moderator routine,,
wink wink".
He comes up with a Mia Culpa supposed apology for his
behavior with the explanation that its probably his
military background that's responsible for his trashy
behavior, or maybe its us not adoring him well enough,
or maybe we are his family. Of course he would be big
Daddy and the list is Mama.
Geez my eyes almost welled up with tears when he said
that we are his family, and he just loves us all, no
matter who we are or where we are, even if we don't
adore him.
If he could only look deep into our eyes, and
notice our innermost intimate thoughts, an' all with
great angelic love, and read our body language, all
would be so well and heavenly. Did you feel that great
heavenly spiritual experience,,,.
And yet a couple of posts later he attacks, figuring
he has enough Chihuahuas to give him cover. As long as
he puts up that wooff wooff fire wall, no one can be
assured that he really has any sense of contrition.
Some of us have run across people that "talk the talk
but not walk the walk", so far that's the impression
that many of us are getting.
As to his military background as an excuse,,, well (
notwithstanding my 11 years in the U.S Army Infantry)
I am surrounded every day with EX mill here at Fort
Huachuca Az, in fact John Even knows at least one of
the people I know here. Just about everyone I come
across is ex mill and none of them are abusive.
It ain't nothing to do with being thin skinned, but a
lot to do with changing his online behavior. Some
people simply don't feel safe enough to discuss
different Power Plants, props, modifications, unless
it has been approved by Hero John. That in fact is
denying many of us the ideas and techniques that would
help improve our flying experience, and our airplanes.
If he wants to carry-on with his adoring circle or
cult of personality he can go to Yahoo, and start a
list that will be full of constant adoration. While
here we can keep going discussing how to build Kolbs,
how to fly them, what mods work, and whatever we do
with our airplanes without being attacked. Progress is
based on innovation by a wide range of people with
different ideas. To have a person that recruited or
convinced a small bunch that he is the last word on
Kolbs, then uses that group to impose his narrow view
on the rest through intimidation is doing everybody
harm. Many are fed up with that.
One person already left the list and plainly stated
that he did so because of John Hauck's abusive
behavior. And that fellow was an innovator, he went
and built a BMW conversion for his Kolb, and told us
all about it. That man is gone because of John. That
is an example among many, why many are kinda ticked
off.
==================================
--- GeoR38(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/4/03 2:26:12 PM Eastern
> Standard Time, jbhart(at)ldd.net
> writes:
>
> > >My hearty congratulations for first flight.
> > >
> > >What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during
> a time when
> > >the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb
> List it would
> > >have downed a 747.
> >
> > John,
> >
> > What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your
> apology, and you stick the
> >
> > knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and
> self analysis sincere? Is
> >
> > this "Live and let live"?
> >
> > Enough said, and I am off this topic.
> >
> > Jack B. Hart FF004
> > Jackson, MO
> >
> >
> > Jack &Louise Hart
> > jbhart(at)ldd.net
> >
>
> Jack, pleeeeez...you are being WAY too thin
> skinned....don't you recognize
> his sense of humor??? And you are a very good
> contributor to this list too!!!
> wasssup buddy??!!
>
> George Randolph
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
If any of the fine folks I have come to know here would like to contact
me in the future Please E-mail me directly at tophera(at)centurytel.net
I will no longer be participating in the Kolb list.
Sadly,
Topher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Right and wrong with the List |
Ron/John/All
"I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over the
list, and wish he would stop."
I wish all would stop the negatives and get back to positive comments. Enough already!!!
Peace and joy to all.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb Holiday Spirit |
Hi Tim & Gang,
I whole heartily agree with what Tim is saying. I have been on the list
close to 5 years now and don't remember it ever getting this bad as far
as ill feelings toward one another. This list has been invaluable to me
and I enjoy most all the post that have a positive message or good will
feeling. This is a special country we live in and I too am thankful for
my nation, freedoms, family, God, health, and for my airplanes and for
the brothers on this Kolb list. May you all have a Merry Christmas.
John Cooley
-->
Kolbers,
I had the last few days off due to my 38th birthday. When I came back
to catch up on the Kolb list posts, I was both amazed and saddened.
This is an amazing time that we live in! And this is an amazing time of
year when a special kind a spirit resides. A spirit that even stopped
the war in WWI and both sides came out of the deadly trenches and
celebrated this time of year together. I'm sure if arch enemies could
do that, this list of brotherhood can take care and have concern and
healthy holiday spirit for one another.
I for one am very thankful for my nation, freedoms, family, God, health,
and for my airplane and for the brothers on this Kolb list. May you all
have a wonderful Christmas and Christmas spirit!
Happy holidays!
Tim Gherkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
Jabiru flyers,
What fuel are you folks burning in your engines?
Is 100LL your only option?
The spec sheets I see tell me that is what you have to use.
No biggy if thats the case but I wonder what is going to be around as the demise
of leaded fuel gets nearer.
Thanks,
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
CaptainRon
Give it a rest. I'm tired of your rants. Shut up.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <aerialron(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately?
>
> I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over the
> list, and wish he would stop.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
>
>I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over the
>list, and wish he would stop.
>
CaptainRon,
No one deserves this.
John Hauck, I wish you the best, and I wish I had never joined this list.
I am gone.
Fly safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Holiday Spirit |
I've been involved in network-based user groups of one type and another for
many years and it seems they all go thru this cycle of nuttiness. The thing
I've learned is that they (nearly always) survive and cycle back to
normalcy. It's just a matter of waiting.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Holiday Spirit
>
> Hi Tim & Gang,
>
> I whole heartily agree with what Tim is saying. I have been on the list
> close to 5 years now and don't remember it ever getting this bad as far
> as ill feelings toward one another. This list has been invaluable to me
> and I enjoy most all the post that have a positive message or good will
> feeling. This is a special country we live in and I too am thankful for
> my nation, freedoms, family, God, health, and for my airplanes and for
> the brothers on this Kolb list. May you all have a Merry Christmas.
>
> John Cooley
>
>
> -->
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> I had the last few days off due to my 38th birthday. When I came back
> to catch up on the Kolb list posts, I was both amazed and saddened.
>
> This is an amazing time that we live in! And this is an amazing time of
> year when a special kind a spirit resides. A spirit that even stopped
> the war in WWI and both sides came out of the deadly trenches and
> celebrated this time of year together. I'm sure if arch enemies could
> do that, this list of brotherhood can take care and have concern and
> healthy holiday spirit for one another.
>
> I for one am very thankful for my nation, freedoms, family, God, health,
> and for my airplane and for the brothers on this Kolb list. May you all
> have a wonderful Christmas and Christmas spirit!
>
>
> Happy holidays!
>
> Tim Gherkins
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Native American Artist <cartoonface2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
>.......Many are fed up with that.
One person already left the list and plainly stated
that he did so because of John Hauck's abusive
behavior. And that fellow was an innovator, he went
and built a BMW conversion for his Kolb, and told us
all about it. That man is gone because of John. That
is an example among many, why many are kinda ticked
off.
SO click away from the madness that hurts you so.
Simple...like TV.
Split the scene man!
Take it with a grain of salt.
Sticks n stones....
Ignore the *erks.
Close the blinds.
Cover your eyes.
Plug your ears.
It's a terrible world that cyberplace,,,but there are so many options including
being the LAST stone thrower.
See my other post.
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Native American Artist <cartoonface2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
whoops...that was attn Captain Ron.....
Native American Artist wrote:Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003
From: Native American Artist
Subject: Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately?
>.......Many are fed up with that.
One person already left the list and plainly stated
that he did so because of John Hauck's abusive
behavior. And that fellow was an innovator, he went
and built a BMW conversion for his Kolb, and told us
all about it. That man is gone because of John. That
is an example among many, why many are kinda ticked
off.
SO click away from the madness that hurts you so.
Simple...like TV.
Split the scene man!
Take it with a grain of salt.
Sticks n stones....
Ignore the *erks.
Close the blinds.
Cover your eyes.
Plug your ears.
It's a terrible world that cyberplace,,,but there are so many options including
being the LAST stone thrower.
See my other post.
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
This is my reply "the other ron" I for one don't mind reading all the post
,cause I just might learn sum'tin' as for jonh h. he has answered several of
my Q's direct. thanks john,, just wish I could have done the trips that you
have made.I think this bull S&
about what ever ?????, who really cares,
I don't .I like this list and several others i am on. sorry but when i get
to a post about a pissin' contest i just delete!! I DON'T CARE, just as long
as I can learn from this list. " NUF SAID" think i'll have another beer"
later guys, the other ron in tx.
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaptainRon" <aerialron(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately?
>
> I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over the
> list, and wish he would stop.
>
> Well to explain what's up is simple. As it is obvious
> to most John H has for the past several months
> insulted a whole bunch of people. Setting aside for a
> moment his "I am Not the List Boss/Moderator routine,,
> wink wink".
> He comes up with a Mia Culpa supposed apology for his
> behavior with the explanation that its probably his
> military background that's responsible for his trashy
> behavior, or maybe its us not adoring him well enough,
> or maybe we are his family. Of course he would be big
> Daddy and the list is Mama.
> Geez my eyes almost welled up with tears when he said
> that we are his family, and he just loves us all, no
> matter who we are or where we are, even if we don't
> adore him.
>
> If he could only look deep into our eyes, and
> notice our innermost intimate thoughts, an' all with
> great angelic love, and read our body language, all
> would be so well and heavenly. Did you feel that great
> heavenly spiritual experience,,,.
> And yet a couple of posts later he attacks, figuring
> he has enough Chihuahuas to give him cover. As long as
> he puts up that wooff wooff fire wall, no one can be
> assured that he really has any sense of contrition.
> Some of us have run across people that "talk the talk
> but not walk the walk", so far that's the impression
> that many of us are getting.
> As to his military background as an excuse,,, well (
> notwithstanding my 11 years in the U.S Army Infantry)
> I am surrounded every day with EX mill here at Fort
> Huachuca Az, in fact John Even knows at least one of
> the people I know here. Just about everyone I come
> across is ex mill and none of them are abusive.
> It ain't nothing to do with being thin skinned, but a
> lot to do with changing his online behavior. Some
> people simply don't feel safe enough to discuss
> different Power Plants, props, modifications, unless
> it has been approved by Hero John. That in fact is
> denying many of us the ideas and techniques that would
> help improve our flying experience, and our airplanes.
> If he wants to carry-on with his adoring circle or
> cult of personality he can go to Yahoo, and start a
> list that will be full of constant adoration. While
> here we can keep going discussing how to build Kolbs,
> how to fly them, what mods work, and whatever we do
> with our airplanes without being attacked. Progress is
> based on innovation by a wide range of people with
> different ideas. To have a person that recruited or
> convinced a small bunch that he is the last word on
> Kolbs, then uses that group to impose his narrow view
> on the rest through intimidation is doing everybody
> harm. Many are fed up with that.
> One person already left the list and plainly stated
> that he did so because of John Hauck's abusive
> behavior. And that fellow was an innovator, he went
> and built a BMW conversion for his Kolb, and told us
> all about it. That man is gone because of John. That
> is an example among many, why many are kinda ticked
> off.
>
> ==================================
>
>
> --- GeoR38(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 12/4/03 2:26:12 PM Eastern
> > Standard Time, jbhart(at)ldd.net
> > writes:
> >
> > > >My hearty congratulations for first flight.
> > > >
> > > >What amazes me is you MK III Classic flew during
> > a time when
> > > >the air waves were so full of BS from the Kolb
> > List it would
> > > >have downed a 747.
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > What more is there to say? 52 minutes since your
> > apology, and you stick the
> > >
> > > knife and twist it. Is your previous apology and
> > self analysis sincere? Is
> > >
> > > this "Live and let live"?
> > >
> > > Enough said, and I am off this topic.
> > >
> > > Jack B. Hart FF004
> > > Jackson, MO
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack &Louise Hart
> > > jbhart(at)ldd.net
> > >
> >
> > Jack, pleeeeez...you are being WAY too thin
> > skinned....don't you recognize
> > his sense of humor??? And you are a very good
> > contributor to this list too!!!
> > wasssup buddy??!!
> >
> > George Randolph
> >
> >
> >
> > Click on the
> > this
> > generous
> > _->
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/chat
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Ron
> Building M3X
> Southern Arizona
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: What Is Going Right With The Kolb List Lately? |
>
> That man is gone because of John.>
>
That man is gone because he chose to be gone.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
>
> ---------------------------------
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Clearance |
Ed:
Mine has the 66" IVO prop and is still the "stock" 3/4 inch clearance...Has
not caused any problem I have been able to detect in about 100 hours.
Personally, I would doubt that there could be too much of a problem (or
gain)raising it 1/4 inch further, but am only speculating...
Good Luck...
Beauford
FF #076
Brandon, FL
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop Clearance
>
> My 66" prop comes 3/4 " from the tail boom.
> . Anyone see a problem with putting a total of 5 washers
> which would raise the engine enough to give 1" of clearance. Any one else
have to
> do this on their Firefly.
>
> Ed ( in Houston)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CaptainRon <aerialron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Right and wrong with the List |
Ok I agree, I had my say on the subject and now I am
done with it.
======================
--- flykolb wrote:
>
>
> Ron/John/All
>
>
> "I am also tired of discussing John H dumping over
> the
> list, and wish he would stop."
>
> I wish all would stop the negatives and get back to
> positive comments. Enough already!!!
>
> Peace and joy to all.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Ron
Building M3X
Southern Arizona
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: For those who leave the list |
To those who leave the list,
Although I understand your feelings (I too have ceased attempting to
contribute or stimulate), I am still lurking quietly in the background and will
probably continue to do so for as long as I still have hopes of using a Kolb product
for my endeavors. As long as I continue to own my old FS, I will continue to
modify it to meet my changing needs, wants and desires - with or without John
H. or Dennis's help or blessings. To be honest, they have been the least
helpful of all the people I have met on the list. This was quite a surprise to
me
as I had expected that they would be in the forefront of the efforts to make
Kolbs and Kolb owners reach their potentials and desires. I don't know either
of them personally and have nothing against either of them. I am not
complaining about them either, just stating my personal experiences. I assume
that I
have offended them each in some way and I understand that they have no
obligation to me or anyone else. Bottom line = if they are not willing to give
me
straight answers, they mean nothing to me or my project. No problem, many others
on the list have been there with answers when these two would not return my
emails or respond on the list.
The reason I joined the list in the first place was to access the
information, experience and incredible creativity offered by those who have already
thought of and perfected the modifications I find I need and I would like to not
have to "reinvent the wheel" with each new incarnation my flying machine
undergoes. You guys have already gone where I want to go, made the mistakes I will
make without your guidance, found the solutions and are far beyond what I will
be able to reach without your knowledge and help.
If you guys are going to leave and not monitor the list, please send me an
email off list and let me know if its okay for me to continue to bug you with
questions.
Thanks,
Steve
do not archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [surplusengines] I have some High Quality WOOD Props really |
cheap!!!!
I have some High Quality WOOD Props really cheap!!!!
THought you guys might like to know where to get really nice props
for an UNUSUALLY GOOD DEAL. Look at these sample prices
for example a 60/38:
Laminated Finished Walnut------------------------$200
Laminated Rough out of the replicator Walnut-----$125
Laminated Finished Ash---------------------------$175
Laminated Ash--rough out of the replicator-------$100
straight out of the replicator, in the rough is for those who like to
do their own finishing work and save a CHUNK of $$$--
THe ash props are 25% lighter than the walnut, and the walnut are
considerably lighter than the general birch/maple props.
VERY ACCURATE BLADE MATH FOR HIGH EFFICIENCY ...email me for details
and pictures
Every Friday is "Swapmeet Friday". Members can list
no more than three aviation related items.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
surplusengines-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: [surplusengines] I have some High Quality WOOD Props really |
cheap!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [surplusengines] I have some High Quality WOOD Props really
cheap!!!!
> Send me your info and pics of your props
> Thanks
> Randy Spad XIII In NC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cloudcars99" <cloudcars(at)itexas.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 9:32 AM
> Subject: [surplusengines] I have some High Quality WOOD Props really
> cheap!!!!
>
>
> > THought you guys might like to know where to get really nice props
> > for an UNUSUALLY GOOD DEAL. Look at these sample prices
> >
> > for example a 60/38:
> > Laminated Finished Walnut------------------------$200
> > Laminated Rough out of the replicator Walnut-----$125
> > Laminated Finished Ash---------------------------$175
> > Laminated Ash--rough out of the replicator-------$100
> >
> > straight out of the replicator, in the rough is for those who like to
> > do their own finishing work and save a CHUNK of $$$--
> >
> > THe ash props are 25% lighter than the walnut, and the walnut are
> > considerably lighter than the general birch/maple props.
> >
> > VERY ACCURATE BLADE MATH FOR HIGH EFFICIENCY ...email me for details
> > and pictures
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Every Friday is "Swapmeet Friday". Members can list
> > no more than three aviation related items.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > surplusengines-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Experimenter issue |
Dennis...
Just got my issue today...glad to see your Kolb grace those pages!
Looking Fine!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
movie of around the patch once. OK I said...shes fast..but she wont get
around the patch in 30 secs...he tells me that all i gotta do is watch the
clock,,and hit the button after 30 secs and it will take another...ok..But
the wind is high...20 mph 90m deg from the strip...helluva cross wind.
minimal conditions for me and the movie will be lousy. Well After I thought
about it..I said oh well...gotta get one trip around the patch before I go
home..
Here is a link to his website where he posted this flic...it a big
download..8.4 meg I think...at the bottom of the page below all them RD
models..
but you lurkers who are thinking about building...here is how a FireFly
handles a crosswind...windsock is in the opening few seconds.
Just an amazin little bird huh!
http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Captain my captain |
Captain Ron,
I've known just a few captains in my life but one in
particular sticks in my mind. Captain Schumaker He was my company
commander when I was in A-company, 1/12 , 4th infantry division, RVN,
1969. We were a rifle company located in the Central Highlands, near
Kontum, South Vietnam. May 31, 1969 we were on a battalion sweep through
the Plei Trap Valley. B company had walked into an ambush by a
battalion sized force of NVA and were sustaining heavy casualties. My
company was ordered to maintain our position approximately 1 click away.
So we sat in the jungle listening to all hell break loose when the air
support got there. An order finally came down for us to move in as a
blocking force to catch the NVA on their escape route. In order for us
to to be manuevered in to the correct position a Slick was used to guide
us. He hovered at the rear of the twin columns and maintained radio
contact with our CP as we proceeded towards our objective. This proved
to be a fatal mistake as the NVA figured out what was going on and
outmanuevered us. They could also hear the chopper slowly approaching
and set up another ambush. When captain Shoe came over to check on what
was left of my squad that night I could see the angony written all
over the man. He'd made a tactical error he'd live with the rest of his
life. He got tougher and more demanding after that , completely
intolerant of mistakes that could cost lives. The FNG's coming into the
company after that thought he was a real B-----d but they didn't know
him or what was going on in his mind. Then there was the Captain of B
company. If you are interested, it's all in a book called " Time Heals
No Wounds" by my friend Jack Lenninger.
Do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Clearance |
Ed.
I got the Rotax 447 with Ivo 66" prop with prop extension on our
FireFly. No problem with ours. I'll try to remember to measure our prop
clearance when I go to the aeroport.
jerb - Dallas
>
>DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > List,
> >
> > Kinda hard finnishing up my firefly with deer season going
> on. Thought I
> > would throw out a question and maybe offer some respite from all the
> > bickering talk. My 66" prop comes 3/4 " from the tail boom. I have 3
> washers between
> > the Alum. mtg. plate and the lord mnts. I have 2 washers between the
> engine
> > and the mtg. plate. Anyone see a problem with putting a total of 5 washers
> > which would raise the engine enough to give 1" of clearance. Any one
> else have to
> > do this on their Firefly.
> >
> > Ed ( in Houston)
> >
>
>Ed,
>
>Not sure why you want to raise the engine, the clearance of the prop to
>the boom is not
>a problem. I too thought at first that it was very close, but have
>realized after many
>hours of flight, that for the prop to strike the boom something very bad
>has already
>happened and will ruin your day.
>
>I am swinging the same prop as you and have had no problems in 255 hr.'s
>
>Hope this helps, Terry - FireFly #95
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Where's my Hero ??? |
I wrote to John ( directly ) and my message failed...
I didn't see that he posted anything today (digest)
What have you moRONs done....
I have a question about my gap seal on the ailerons.
I don't care what EVERYBODY did, I want to know what John has to say about it....
This is what I got back.....
Hi. This is the mailer-daemon. I'm afraid I wasn't able to
deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a
permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
:
Connected to 24.93.41.201 but sender was rejected.
Remote host said: 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 209.202.220 - See http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security
- 20031204
--- Below this line is a copy of the message.
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:14:29 -0500
From: "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Your my Hero
Hey John,
Quick Question :
Does the "gap seal" for the ailerons stop there ,or continue down the rest of
the tube...
Thanks in advance,
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN FSII
---
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Hi Don/All,
This video is absolutely great, even has sound! Just the thing for anyone (like
myself)
who has not yet flown in a Kolb, or needs a mid-winter fix. Veddy nice job.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Video
>
> Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
> stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
> buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
> movie of around the patch once. OK I said...shes fast..but she wont get
> around the patch in 30 secs...he tells me that all i gotta do is watch the
> clock,,and hit the button after 30 secs and it will take another...ok..But
> the wind is high...20 mph 90m deg from the strip...helluva cross wind.
> minimal conditions for me and the movie will be lousy. Well After I thought
> about it..I said oh well...gotta get one trip around the patch before I go
> home..
>
> Here is a link to his website where he posted this flic...it a big
> download..8.4 meg I think...at the bottom of the page below all them RD
> models..
>
> but you lurkers who are thinking about building...here is how a FireFly
> handles a crosswind...windsock is in the opening few seconds.
> Just an amazin little bird huh!
>
>
> http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Vincent <emailbill(at)chartermi.net> |
The internet is still in it's infancy, a new communication tool, with
growing problems; as humans we still have some weakness on how to handle
this new tool.
The purpose of "shared" web sites is to disseminate information to
individuals that have a common interest. Information sharing is just
that...one can choose to use the information or discard it, but there is
never a time when too much information is a "bad" thing. This is what
is great about lists such as the Kolb List...the sharing of information
and the opportunity to utilize it or discard it.
Thank you John Hauck and others for sharing your expertise.
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Quinnesec, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Fun video. Glad I have cable. Would take my brother-in-law about an hour to
down load on his dial up. I was D/L at 190 kb/sec which makes it quick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Video
>
> Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
> stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
> buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
> movie of around the patch once. OK I said...shes fast..but she wont get
> around the patch in 30 secs...he tells me that all i gotta do is watch the
> clock,,and hit the button after 30 secs and it will take another...ok..But
> the wind is high...20 mph 90m deg from the strip...helluva cross wind.
> minimal conditions for me and the movie will be lousy. Well After I
thought
> about it..I said oh well...gotta get one trip around the patch before I go
> home..
>
> Here is a link to his website where he posted this flic...it a big
> download..8.4 meg I think...at the bottom of the page below all them RD
> models..
>
> but you lurkers who are thinking about building...here is how a FireFly
> handles a crosswind...windsock is in the opening few seconds.
> Just an amazin little bird huh!
>
>
> http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Sorry group.............thought that was personal. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Video
>
> I've been trying with Quick Time. Sound only.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vibration Dampeners? |
Earl & Mim Zimmerman wrote:
>
> Hi Kolbsters,
> Did anyone have first hand experience with the rotax hydro dampener
> that bolts onto the mag. flywheel rotax part # 965-497? Do they make a
> big difference? Are they worth $175?? Also what is the best electric
> start system for a 582/w C box? -- Earl
>
Earl,
I have placed a Balance Master behind my prop and also one on the magneto end
of the engine ( it replaces the fan pulley). I can't quantify any major
improvements, but I think they have smoothed out my vibration considerably.
The science behind them is solid!
I don't think Rotax would suggest these if there was good data behind it.
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelvin Kurkowski" <kkurkow(at)chase3000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
Thanks Don,
That is a neat idea, I really enjoyed the"ride". Having never found a
modern Kolb close enough to me, to try to stuff my 6' 7" frame into, I
really appreciate what you've done. I have a friend in northern MN with a
early firestar II, but he bought it used and it had some problems, so they
tore it down to do a rebuild and he (they) haven't got it back in the air,
but I did sit in the airframe. He sent me the first Kolb video 6 or 7 years
ago, I still have it, I think Dennis Souder in the Ultrstar. Its crazy, I
know what John H means when he says in the early days they pushed the
envelope a bit. Then the later tape of the early Mark III. Really good
stuff. Thanks too for your engineering and innovation, and that goes for all
of you.
I will be taking a business trip, (repairing Unimogs) to the east coast
in the next month. Will follow I-70 I think, so if there are Kolbers
reasonably close along that route, and care to, I sure would like to stop a
couple of places and meet you guys and glean some ideas. We will do it Big
Lar style, pickup camper and equipment trailer, so we will be flexible to
stop and sleep about anywhere. I plan to bring my 12 year old Kye with me
and he is Kolb nuts too. (wonder why)
Thank again for all the info.
Kelvin K Grant NE
still lurking
>
> Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
> stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
> buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
> movie >
> http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
John H.,
Wanted to thank you for your heads up at London, KY about the spacer
blocks on the horizontal stabilizers. I have installed them on my
FireFly and they work great. Won't be wearing the hinges from the
pressure of the cable braces and also the tension on the cables will
remain constant.
I also raised the leading edge of my horizontal stab's an inch and have
improved the performance at cruise. Was able to remove the 8 lb.'s of
lead shot from the nose and no longer hold forward stick to fly clean.
Was able to fly hands off before changing them! I had noticed that in
level flight if I pushed slightly forward on the stick it wouldn't
descend, but instead would fly cleaner and faster. Therefore the
experiment with raising the leading edge. My horizontal stab's are now
at the same angle as my motor mount plate. Not suggesting anyone else do
this, just sharing!
Thanks again John,
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
anyone know where to get plans for animated christmas yard decorations,, sorry
about off topic but it is that time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vibration Dampeners? |
I have a couple of the old ones made of plastic that have not held up very
well (I think they are made of metal now), and have been told that you have to
check them periodically to make sure they have not somehow solidified. If they
do, they will imbalance instead of helping to balance. A BFI I know said
several of his friends stopped using them because of this problem.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Dang Larry, I really dont know much about that video stuff...as I mentioned
my brothers camera and he figgered out how to load it on that website.
I did download it and noticed it was not near the quality of the original.
Brother told me the origional was alot bigger that the 8 meg or so and he
did something to make the file smaller..which degrads the video.
Nevertheless I just clicked on it and it played for me...I also made it full
screen ..the windsock shows up better.
I will ad this little story..I know some of you have heard it already..but
whilst we are hangar fly'in....
There I was......at the airpark..winds were high enough to keep most of the
"fairweather flyers" grounded tellin lies an braggin on their birds. You
Pilots know them days..we all were waiting around for late afternoon for the
wind to lie down a bit..But it just wont slow up... Now I dont want any of
my aviatin bros thinking that I am reckless..or a daredevil or anything..so
I was standing around also. Just about to bust wanting to fly. As the
conversation continue'd, someone said to me" You were at Spartan in the 70's
right?..is that where you learned to fly?" " I bet it is a real pain out
there the way the wind blows all the time in Tulsa." I responded that it was
and many a day was spent standing around just like we are doing today
waiting for the wind to get down below 30 knots..for that was the rules for
the flight school's aircraft. Someone said "30 knots!..jeez"...(in
disbelief) I did not respond.
anyway...I should mention that where I keep my bird...there are several
Challengers..a couple of Team airbikes, several Team wood
birds...Z-Max's..Mini max's..Eros...the usual gaggle of Quicksilvers and
clones...lots of different birds...but..no other Kolbs. I have the First one
to reside there.
Also I should mention that I donot consider myself the most skilled pilot
there either...several fellas I believe are alot better than me..
So...after realizing that the wind was not going to let up..I prepared for a
flight.
When I rolled the FlagFly out and started preflight..I got alot of
looks...Nobody came out and said I was plum crazy...but a few looks told
their thoughts. I was NEVER worried about bending my bird men....I dont fly
in those conditions regularly only because the winds make it
uncomfortable..NOT Unmanageable for a kolb. I was tired of the hangar flyin
and wanted to get in a little bit of stick time and try this thing with
Daves camera.
Well it took me a couple a time around the patch to figger out Brother Daves
camera...I would go around and land..we would look at the camera..no
vid...and he would instruct me somemore...all the time im crabbing in dandy
landings and all the hangar rats are just standing over there watching. With
the wind finally down to 20k @ 90 deg from runway heading....I was having a
ball! the gap you see in the video is because I had to restart the camera
once.
When my wife saw it and the part where I let go of the stick to switch the
camera on again.....she freaked...But you Kolb Pilots know...just cause you
let go of the stick does not mean the Fly is going to stray..it just does
not!..
So after I am done I land and Taxi over to the pumps by the main hangar
where all the boys had been watching....only 2 guys left..one the owner of
the park..I asked..."where did everbody go Tom?"
He replied." Well....after seeing that...about half of them left pissed off
cause their birds wont handle that well ,,and the other half went to go
look for a Kolb to buy!"
Viva La Kolb!
P.S.. now that I know brother dave can do that..I will be attermpting to
make a better Vid on a smoother day....Just to help us get thru those
snowbound weeks of winter that are coming!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Hi Don,
I'll stand by patiently, keep 'em coming!
Ed in JXN (Lower Mich.)
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly Video
>
(Snip)
>
> P.S.. now that I know brother dave can do that..I will be attermpting to
> make a better Vid on a smoother day....Just to help us get thru those
> snowbound weeks of winter that are coming!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Olendorf" <solendor(at)nycap.rr.com> |
I made a heater that attaches to the cowl. It is only aluminum flashing wrapped
around two 4" platic dryer hose couplers. Then a 3" dryer hose runs into the
cockpit. This provides just enough heat to keep my feet warm. I'd say it will
raise the temperature 10 -20 degrees especially near the feet.
I'm going to try a heater cuff that goes around the muffler next time and see how
that works.
Scott Olendorf
Firestar, Rotax 447 and Powerfin prop.
Schenectady, NY
http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar
>
>In a message dated 12/4/03 8:36:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>solendor(at)nycap.rr.com writes:
>
>> http://home.nycap.rr.com/firestar/firepic.htm
>
> What type of heater did you install?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Having a FireFly I really enjoyed it. Tell you brother thanks. And your
auto pilot works just like mine.
jerb
>
>Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
>stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
>buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
>movie of around the patch once. OK I said...shes fast..but she wont get
>around the patch in 30 secs...he tells me that all i gotta do is watch the
>clock,,and hit the button after 30 secs and it will take another...ok..But
>the wind is high...20 mph 90m deg from the strip...helluva cross wind.
>minimal conditions for me and the movie will be lousy. Well After I thought
>about it..I said oh well...gotta get one trip around the patch before I go
>home..
>
>Here is a link to his website where he posted this flic...it a big
>download..8.4 meg I think...at the bottom of the page below all them RD
>models..
>
>but you lurkers who are thinking about building...here is how a FireFly
>handles a crosswind...windsock is in the opening few seconds.
> Just an amazin little bird huh!
>
>
>http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
>
>
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
got to thinkin' what about a bone stock ultrastar ,,,turn the gear around add a
"ugh" nose gear and then make a enclosed cockpit "somehow" and join the alaska
group" but now i need a heater? bet it will be a butt ugly contraption? as
least it won't be a mower any more. I thru. for now.
everyone have a great day I am way out here in west tx.fantastic day super nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spacer blocks |
Your comment about it flying cleaner and faster when the stick is pushed
slightly forward brings up the topic of flying on the step. We experience
this with our FireFly also.
jerb
>snip..
>I also raised the leading edge of my horizontal stab's an inch and have
>improved the performance at cruise. Was able to remove the 8 lb.'s of
>lead shot from the nose and no longer hold forward stick to fly clean.
>Was able to fly hands off before changing them! I had noticed that in
>level flight if I pushed slightly forward on the stick it wouldn't
>descend, but instead would fly cleaner and faster. Therefore the
>experiment with raising the leading edge. My horizontal stab's are now
>at the same angle as my motor mount plate. Not suggesting anyone else do
>this, just sharing!
>
>Thanks again John,
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James and Cathy Tripp" <jtripp(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hauck,John,Major,Ret. |
Kolb Friends,
I've got to add my 2 cents worth and my own story about John Hauck and what
he's done to promote my interest in ultralights. I met John's famous
airplane 7 years before I met him. Here's how the story goes:
10 years ago, while I was stationed at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama, I
saw my first ultralight. My introduction to ultralights came by way of a
group of fliers as they flew in small groups over my house on lazy Sunday
afternoons apparently going nowhere fast or anywhere in particular or so it
seemed. The weeks and months passed as they often do when you're busy with
other more pressing priorities and my only reminder of the ultralights was
an occasional sighting as they made their distinct sound while passing
overhead. Like any person who loves airplanes, one can't fly over without
me looking up to see it.
On one of those lazy Sunday afternoons when nothing else was going on, my
family and I went for a little Sunday joy ride in the country. We hadn't
traveled more than 5 miles from home when we passed the Wetumpka
International Airport (actually its just a little place). To my surprise,
as we drove passed the airport, I noticed one of those small airplanes
parked right out front. I braked quickly and turned onto the dirt entrance
to check things out. I knew what my wife was thinking (oh no, more
airplanes) so I kind of downplayed the whole thing and told her I just
wanted to check it out and I wouldn't be long. Sitting there right in front
of me was the most beautiful flying machine I have seen. Well not better
than AF jet fighters and such but for an ultralight it was impressive.
Painted red with yellow sunbursts on the wings, it was magnificently built.
I just stared at it for a while, walked all around it, looked in the
cockpit, admired the design, and hoped the owner would come by. It was
parked out in the open and not in a storage area so I knew it was there
temporarily. The owner was around somewhere but where?
As my wife's patients began to diminish with each pass I took around the
ultralight, I figured I had stalled longer than I should and went back to
the car to continue our Sunday drive. The rest of the joyride was
overshadowed, at least within my own mind, by continuous thoughts of
ultralights. Wish I could have talked to the pilot. Before I got a chance
to pursue ultralighting further, I got transferred out of the Montgomery
area.
Once settled into my new assignment, I did a search for ultralights on the
internet and boom, more information than you could shake a stick at. I read
with interest everything I could on the subject and ordered a subscription
to UF! plus 3 years of back issues.
As I eagerly looked forward to each month's issue of UF!, and read it from
cover to cover, I've learned an awful lot about the ultralight business.
One thing I learned was that first ultralight I saw parked at the Wetumpka
Airport was a Kolb Mark III owned by a guy named John Hauck who evidently
has made quite a name for himself in the ultralight world. And to think, for
3 years, I lived within 25 miles of this guy and never knew it. I also
decided that if I ever got an ultralight, it would definitely be a Kolb.
I wish I had taken action sooner when the opportunity to get more involved
with ultralights was readily available to me in the Montgomery area. After
3 years of reading just about anything and everything on the subject, I got
yet another transfer. This time to Korea and well away from the ultralight
flying world and away from the family. I had plenty of time to read and
study ultralights.
I'm a lucky guy. My assignment leaving Korea was back to Maxwell AFB, near
JH, and since Kolb became TNK, pretty close to them also. To make this long
story a little shorter, when I got back to Montgomery, I gave John a call.
He very happily flew his airplane from Titus to Wetumpka and took me up for
an hour and a half joy ride. What a joy it was too. He told me everything I
needed to know about Kolbs and encouraged me to attend the Kolb fly-in. I've
been to the last 3. I purchased my FS at the second fly-in and I'm almost
75% done with the building.
For those of you trying to build a Kolb, there's nothing like having an
expert like JH give you advise. It's an even greater blessing to actually
have him look at your work and show you how to do things.
When I think back on the past 10 years, I know I have John Hauck to thank
for turning me on to Kolb aircraft. I know there are plenty of Kolb flyers
and builders out there who, just like me, can relate similar stories about
John.
Here's to you John Hauck! A toast to a respected friend and mentor. May you
always have blue skies and tailwinds.
Sorry for being so long winded. You could have hit the delete key after the
first paragraph.
James Tripp
Building FS II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hauck,John,Major,Ret.
>
> Paul,
> Im glad you started a new thread...And I like the title.
> I certainly know you have met John in person, as you have him pegged in
your
> impression. I would like to offer this example of validation.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Hauck" <jimh474(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: E-Mail to John H |
John Hauck
E-mail Address(es):
jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com
Mike;
This is Johns e-mail address.
He is not home this evening, he is stuffing himself with catfish, shrimp
cole slaw, hushpuppies and chocolate icecream.
Bro Jim Hauck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Carillon <pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Don Gherardini wrote:
>
> Hey men..my brother shows up the airpark and with a new digital camera
> stuck in a round the neck wire harmonica holde and says "Here..punch this
> buttonand it take 30 secs worth a video. Take your FireFly and make me a
> movie of around the patch once. OK I said...shes fast..but she wont get
Don/list, Thanks for the video I really enjoyed it. I have'nt flown my
firestar II in 3 yrs. due too family matters, but i have made about 30
takeoffs and landings with your video full screen, with the sound, BOY!
brings that great feeling back. Thanks Again.
Thats whats so great about this list something for everyone. I'm just
a luker and read the list every evening, makes me feel like i'm part of
the "Kolb Family". So many good people on the list with help,
information, stories and pictures about trips that I will never take.
Thanks to Don and the list.
Jack carillon
firestar II Akron, Oh.
>
> http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm ====================
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
| Subject: | Hauck's New Prop? |
Hey John H.,
Did you get a chance to try your new prop? I couldn't tell from the
pictures which blade design that is. Do you use the standard blade or
the taper tip? In your experience is there much difference in
performance? I'm looking for any input that I can get. I'm trying to
decide on a new prop. Thanks! -- Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
Hey Guys,
Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience with this in-flight
adjustable prop.? Looks interesting but way too rich for me!! -- Earl
http://www.ultralightprops.com/adjustprops.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.L.Turner" <jimturner(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Humorous Military Communication |
Received: ...th SMTP id hB72s777022111\n\t\234Sat, 6 Dec 2003...
Airborne Dramas
---------------
A military pilot calling urgently called Air Traffic Control for a
priority landing because his single-engine jet fighter was running 'a
bit peaked'. His one engine was shutting down.
Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two behind
a B-52 bomber that had one of his eight engines shut down.
"Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
Jim Turner
Firestar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vibration Dampeners? |
SR3SA2L1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a couple of the old ones made of plastic that have not held up very
> well (I think they are made of metal now), and have been told that you have to
> check them periodically to make sure they have not somehow solidified. If they
> do, they will imbalance instead of helping to balance. A BFI I know said
> several of his friends stopped using them because of this problem.
>
> Steve
>
Steve,
Yes they are made out of steel now with mercury encapsulated in plastic tubing
wrapped by the steel. I have had good success with them, but will keep an eye
out
for the problem of solidifying. Don't know how mercury can do that if not exposed
to other metal. Not trying to sell Balance Masters, just sharing info!
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I don't have a dang Kolb |
I won't be changing addresses till monday. Only another day to post my
stuff.
Perhaps the native american artist would appreciate my flying totem
pole. Please check the photo share for pictures of my Thunderbird ( may be
refered to as T bird )
> Hello everyone,
> I don't have ANY aircraft at all actually but I AM interested in the Kolb
> MkIII Xtra.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spacer blocks |
Terry,
I expierience a similiar thing in my FireFly..So this is very interesting to
me.
how high would you say the leading edge of the horizontal is now to in
relation to the boom tube with those spacers added?
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
Richard...I believe that trip was about my 34th or 35th hour logged in the
Fly..TT now is 37 hours. So I'm no old hand by any means.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Earl...I have always wondered about that system...but I have never seen one
in the flesh...
I have never seen a hollow shaft gearbox for any of the engines we typically
use either. some belt type re-drives have hollow shafts that might
accomidate the pushrod... but does anybody know of a hollow shaft gearbox
that might?
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hauck,John,Major,Ret. |
Hello James.
Thank you for your story. I am sure many have simular story behind their first
experiance with ultralights, but mine started with looking through a book
called "Jane's-All the worlds aircraft" where I saw a picture of the MarkIII.
It was introduced as a kit aircraft, where you could build it yourself.
It got me hooked on the Kolb design. Since I did not have a pilots license,
and had no fundings to spend on such a waste, (according to my boss) I decided
on the Firestar. It fitted the ultralight category in Iceland. I somehow
managed to persuade(sp) my wife(boss) to give me persmission to buy the kit,as
it would be my hobby for the next few years.
I was not as lukcy as you James, to ever see an ultralight in real life, or
even to be so fortuned to meet a guy like John Hauck to guide me through the
first steps of building of my Firestar.
I first saw Johns name on the Kolb Matronics list but got to meet him in
person at Sun and Fun in 2001, along with a few of the list members.
My first impression of him was very good. A kind and friendly man, willing to
talk to this foreigner all the way from Iceland. We talked about his plane,
but mostly he wanted to know more about ultralight flying in Iceland.
We met infront of the Kolb trailer at the ultralight area, along with a few
excellent members on the list. Larry Bourne, Terry(Firefly #95), Gene
Ledbetter, Bueford from Tallahasse, Steve Green, to name a few.
The short time we had together at the fly-in was an experience I will never
forget. Someday I hope to join the group at Sun and Fun again.
James, your story about your first experience of ultralights got me thinking
back about this great list,its members and how all got started,and how long it
has been the best ultralight list ever created on the internet.
This list has helped me a lot with my building problems and all the nice
friendly people who share their experiance have been like a family to me
through the years and I hope they will continue to be a part of my life.
Best wishes to you all from Iceland.
Johann G.
http://www.gi.is/fis
>
>
> Kolb Friends,
> I've got to add my 2 cents worth and my own story about John Hauck and what
> he's done to promote my interest in ultralights. I met John's famous
> airplane 7 years before I met him. Here's how the story goes:
-------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Lockwood had one of these props on display at Sun & Fun a few years back -
if i recall right it was on a 912 type engine ... I could be wrong about
the engine but looked neat. I guess with some warp paddles it would work
pretty well.
jerb
>
>Earl...I have always wondered about that system...but I have never seen one
>in the flesh...
>I have never seen a hollow shaft gearbox for any of the engines we typically
>use either. some belt type re-drives have hollow shafts that might
>accomidate the pushrod... but does anybody know of a hollow shaft gearbox
>that might?
>
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spacer blocks |
Don Gherardini wrote:
>
> Terry,
> I expierience a similiar thing in my FireFly..So this is very interesting to
> me.
> how high would you say the leading edge of the horizontal is now to in
> relation to the boom tube with those spacers added?
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
Don,
First let me try to clarify my earlier post. The spacer blocks are for keeping
the hinges on the elevator from wearing and the tension on the bracing cables
from losing tension. Noticed these on John Hauck's plane at London, Ky and he
told me their function. They have nothing to do with the raising of the leading
edge of the horizontal stab's. I probably didn't make that a clear as I had
hoped.
I made new brackets to attach to the boom to raise the leading edge of the
stab's. First temporary ones with two holes spaced one half inch apart starting
one half inch above the original setting. When this proved out, I made up
permanent brackets out of stainless which now raise the leading edge (one inch)
above the top level of the boom. Have been flying this for approximately 20
hr.'s since and am very satisfied with this arrangement. I had noticed that a
friends FireStar horizontal stab's were mounted this way by factory design and
it got me thinking. I made my brackets similar to those.
Showed it to Dan from the old Kolb Company and asked him what he thought. He
said that he recalled there being some changes tried with this early on. He
didn't see any problem with what I had done. I think that maybe the specified
angle is to give some margin for pilots of different size and weight. I just
got tired of carrying lead shot around up in the nose and having my ailerons
deflexed to achieve pitch trim. Don't need either now and still have plenty of
control authority.
Hope this helps! Again I'm not encouraging anyone else to try this just sharing
the knowledge
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
Jim
Winter in your part of the country is a good time of the year for covering.
You want cool weather when you are spraying. You will find Poly Spray and
the finish coats will flow much better for a more glossy finish when its
cool. Is there any way you can build a fire in the fire place, plug in
electric heaters or something else to keep the house warm while you are
working? You will loose allot of build time if you have to wait for spring.
Us northerners feel like its time for the beach when it hits sixty, Yupers
swim in the fifties. So working in a unheated garage in the fifties is
nothing.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net>
Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: New Experimenter issue
>
>
> Denny
> I have the wings and tail feathers rigged as well as the controls to the
> stick. I have all the lexan cut out and at one time was attached but is
now
> off the cage, same for the doors. The sling seats are clecoed in place as
> well as the floor pans and center console for the instrument pod. I am
> doing odds and ends waiting for the weather to cooperate so I can start
> covering. I have the plane in my garage. My oil furnace is also located
> in the garage so I will have to wait until the heating season is over so I
> can use the Poly-Tak and the rest of the poly fiber system in the garage.
> Jim Ballenger
> Flying a FS KXP 447
> Building a MK III X
> Virginia Beach, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
Don Gherardini wrote:
> I have never seen a hollow shaft gearbox for any of the engines we typically
> use either. some belt type re-drives have hollow shafts that might
> accomidate the pushrod... but does anybody know of a hollow shaft gearbox
> that might?
Rotax C and E gear boxes use a hollow shaft. -- Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clive Hatcher" <clive_hatcher(at)connectfree.co.uk> |
| Subject: | RE: Vibration Dampers |
Earl,
I understand that the hydro dampener was fitted to
reduce torsional vibrations in the crank shaft
following some early crankshaft fatigue failures.
I have had one on my 582 for 450 hrs (over 7
years) and have had no problems.
Regards - Clive Hatcher Mk III / 582
> Hi Kolbsters,
> Did anyone have first hand experience with
the rotax hydro dampener
> that bolts onto the mag. flywheel rotax part #
965-497? Do they make a
> big difference? Are they worth $175?? Also what
is the best electric
> start system for a 582/w C box? -- Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim,
Rick is right...if you can spray polytone at 60 degrees..maybe 62..it will
flow better...dry slower and produce twice the gloss vs spraying above 70.
They claim 60 is minimum temp to spray..some advise to store it in the
fridge the night before you shoot it.
PolyTone dries about as fast as superglue...and this trait is what makes it
easy to apply..however it is also the trait that makes it dry to a dull
finish. Slow down the drying time by applying in a cool enviroment...add
retarder.(I add extra retarder and reducer to final coat)..and you will have
alot more shine on your airplane.
I used an infra-red gun type non contact thermometer (Raytech) to check the
surfaces..and sprayed my bird at zactly 61 deg surface temp...nobody
believes it is Poly-Tone!
Still not Aerothane...but alot closer!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Don,
Did you have previous painting experience. Great job, it looks
fantastic. You could make a small fortune doing a one or two day beginners
seminar on techniques and methods of applying paint and trim.
What did you use in the way of a gun? Did you use a air brush?
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
Well Jerry...I used to paint Motorcycles back in the 70s..custom stuff
.thats all the painting I ever got paid for!
..I have been painting cars all my life..but none of them professionally.
Only personal stuff..I dont consider myself an expert by any means..only a
salesman who knows how to paint a little!
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
In a message dated 12/6/03 5:56:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:
> >Here is a link to his website where he posted this flic...it a big
> >download..8.4 meg I think...at the bottom of the page below all them RD
> >models..
> >
> >but you lurkers who are thinking about building...here is how a FireFly
> >handles a crosswind...windsock is in the opening few seconds.
> > Just an amazin little bird huh!
> >
> >
> >http://www.dgmodels.rchomepage.com/index.htm
> >
> >
> >Don Gherardini
> >FireFly 098
> >http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
> >
>
Beautiful Firefly video....geeez, it has been too long for me with this move
to Fl, I can see that right now.....viva la Kolb!!
George Randolph
KX firestar driver in The Villages Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FireFly Video |
In a message dated 12/6/03 8:16:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com writes:
> Don/list, Thanks for the video I really enjoyed it. I have'nt flown my
> firestar II in 3 yrs. due too family matters, but i have made about 30
> takeoffs and landings with your video full screen, with the sound, BOY!
> brings that great feeling back. Thanks Again.
> Thats whats so great about this list something for everyone. I'm just
> a luker and read the list every evening, makes me feel like i'm part of
> the "Kolb Family". So many good people on the list with help,
> information, stories and pictures about trips that I will never take.
>
> Thanks to Don and the list.
>
> Jack carillon
> firestar II Akron, Oh.
>
> Hey Jack, this is George Randolph, remember from Akron? Well I moved to
Florida and always wanted to get together with you and ZepRep and somehow never
did. What a shame as we three were Akronites with Kolbs and I never met either
one of you. what happened to your plane...I'd swear, I remember seeing 2
FirestarII's flying side by side over Akron a coupla times and just assumed that
it
was you two guys.
I'm still without my Firestar KX cause it is still hangared in Trumbull
county near the fairgrounds at the hangar of a friend of mine. I'm gonna try to
scare up Rich Swiderski soon down here and maybe work out a way to bring my puppy
down here.
Wish you the best with your "family matters"
George Randolph
Firestar driver originally from Akron, home of the LeBron man
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
> Hey Guys,
> Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience with this in-flight
> adjustable prop.? Looks interesting but way too rich for me!! -- Earl
> http://www.ultralightprops.com/adjustprops.htm
I had a IVO in-flight adjustable on a 582 Mark III and it was a non event
for me. I had hoped that it would reduce gas consumption, give a bit better
speed or at least improve performance. As far as I could tell it did none of
these things. Yes you could improve on the gas consumption, but when you did
it reduced the speed to the point that it took the same amount of gas to get
there, just took longer. I came to believe that you were much better off
setting the prop to max rpm.s. It was a big disappointment to me. I bought
the plane from the original owner, and the adjustable prop wasn't working at
the time. When questioned he didn't think that it was any big deal to have.
I also came to the same conclusion.
Larry, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | hollow shaft gearbox |
| From: | Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com> |
12/08/2003 08:03:26 AM
>Earl...I have always wondered about that system...but I have never seen
one
>in the flesh...
>I have never seen a hollow shaft gearbox for any of the engines we
typically
>use either. some belt type re-drives have hollow shafts that might
>accomidate the pushrod... but does anybody know of a hollow shaft gearbox
>that might?
>Don Gherardini
>FireFly 098
>http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
The Rotax "C" box has a hollow prop shaft, clear through the gearbox to the
area between the engine and the gearbox, and they even provide a small
milled-flat area there with two tapped holes for mounting something.
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox/INflight adjustable props |
thanks for the Info on the hollow shafts men....there seems to always be
something I have missed seeing in the light aircraft/engine world.
Just goes to show that more than one pair of eyes looking at something is
always better!
This also brings me to wonder why?...
Why do the 2 fellas who have IVO in flight adjustable electrics on their
birds that fly from my airpark have them now set to stay in one spot, and
the wires disconnected?
Why did Larry come to that same conclusion on his 582 powered Mk3?
We all generally know that we can adjust our props to either have a better
climb ...or set it for cruise, and the difference is usually more than "just
noticeable"....or on fixed pitch props change them out for the same
preferance in performance. Yet..this is not the first time that I have heard
of an In-flight adjustable on a 2 stroke not living up to expectations.
It seems to me that an inflight adjustable would be just the ticket for the
2 stroke engine with such a wide rpm envelope. But the only ones I have run
across out in the feild seems that they dont.......Hmmmmmm, I think I am
missing something again! Anybody have this figured out?
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
Over three decades ago, I flew Mooneys with constant speed props and they were
fantastic, for that airframe/engine combination. I suspect that the reasons Kolbers
are not having good experience with the In-Flight adjustable props are two.
1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore relatively
slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger difference when
the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines generally have
very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve will have enough
torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch available for
cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase pitch in a torque-peaky
engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus loose thrust rather
than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that will increase
the speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve would make
an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of the reasons
why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a much flatter torque
curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an adjustable pitch prop
is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to produce good thrust at
lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in theory) would enable you to
fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel economy at similar cruise speeds.
Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
In a message dated 12/8/2003 1:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jtriddle(at)adelphia.net writes:
1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore relatively
slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger difference when
the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines generally have
very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve will have enough
torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch available for
cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase pitch in a
torque-peaky engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus loose thrust
rather than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that will increase
the
speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
I believe a big reason to not use in-flight adjustable pitch on a two stroke
is because of the tendency of the EGT's to increase as the prop is unloaded.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Allman" <fisherallman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | hollow shaft gearbox/In-flight adjustable props |
Don and all,
I run an IVO in-flight with a 582 on a slingshot.
When it works I think it's great. Gives you the best of both. Excellent
climb and if you don't mind the fuel burn you can really increase the
cruise.
However,
I couldn't get mine to stay together. Wires breaking off the brushes among
other things. Finally the frustration became more than the benefit and I
removed it.
I would like to add, I don't know how many hours are on this prop. It was
used when I started the evaluation.
Joe
SS 582 IVO -VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Gherardini
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: hollow shaft gearbox/INflight adjustable props
.....2 stroke engine with such a wide rpm envelope. But the only ones I have
run
across out in the feild seems that they dont.......Hmmmmmm, I think I am
missing something again! Anybody have this figured out?
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
> Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
> > I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve
would make an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of
the reasons why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a
much flatter torque curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an
adjustable pitch prop is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to
produce good thrust at lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in
theory) would enable you to fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel
economy at similar cruise speeds.
>
> Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
Thom,
I agree with you that it is a combo of the high drag airframes and the peaky
power curve of the two cylinder 2 cycles that conspire to limit the
effectivness of inflight adjustables on many ULs.
My wife and I each had the opportunity to fly a leg of the Dayton to Kitty
Hawk flight with Dave Gardner in his 912S powered Rans S-12 which was
equiped with a large diameter inflight adjustable IVO. Due to that engines
wide flat power curve, the adjustable prop worked quite well. I also have a
friend with a 3 cylinder 690L like mine that was able to see some advantage
with the inflight adjustable IVO high pitch on his Slingshot due to the
triples flat power curve. However, he previously saw even better results
with a deeper reduction ratio and larger diameter ground adjustable prop,
but due to resonance problems stemming from the 3 to 1 ratio gearbox he was
forced to switch to 2.65 to 1 gears and has never since been able to match
the deeper reductions overall performance, even with the inflight adjustable
prop. 2SIs deepest ratio is 3.06 to 1 and that ratio just isn't compatable
with three cylinder engines.
Seems our best route is to use the 3.47 ratio reductions wherever possible
to maximize performance, and if you have a higher torque engine such as a 2
stroke triple from Hirth, 2SI, MZ, or Simonini, or a 912 Rotax, you may also
want to try an inflight adjustable, otherwise it's probably just a waste of
funds.
Thats my thoughts, worth every penny it cost ya. :-)
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3 N616DR, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
In a message dated 12/8/03 1:31:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jtriddle(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
> Inflight adjustable prop SPECULATION:
>
> Over three decades ago, I flew Mooneys with constant speed props and they
> were fantastic, for that airframe/engine combination. I suspect that the
> reasons Kolbers are not having good experience with the In-Flight adjustable
props
> are two. 1) The airframes on these aircraft are high drag and therefore
> relatively slow. In-flight adjustable and constant speed props make a bigger
> difference when the speed envelope is large. 2) The Rotax 2-stroke engines
> generally have very peaky torque curves. An engine with a flatter torque curve
will
> have enough torque at lower engine speeds to make use of the extra pitch
> available for cruising with an in-flight adjustable prop. Trying to increase
> pitch in a torque-peaky engine will only tend to bog down the engine and thus
> loose thrust rather than gain thrust. Increasing thrust is the only thing that
> will increase the speed of the aircraft in S&L flight.
>
> I believe that a different 2-stroke engine with a flatter torque curve would
> make an in-flight adjustable prop a better proposition. This is one of the
> reasons why I am interested in the Hirth 2-strokes which advertise a much
> flatter torque curve. With flatter torque curve, whether or not an adjustable
> pitch prop is used, will theoretically enable a prop continue to produce good
> thrust at lower rpms without bogging down, which (again in theory) would enable
> you to fly at lower engine rpm and get much better fuel economy at similar
> cruise speeds.
>
> Remember this is all speculation on my part. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Thom in Buffalo
>
> thom in Buffalo, and all
The classic formula for Horsepower is Torque X Speed (or angular velocity in
this case) X a Constant, so it makes sense that what you say coupled with some
of what John Hauck said about fixed pitch being the only real option on two
strokes would show a reduction of horsepower output on a twostroke as the
torque peaked out at only one speed. If the Torque peak is surpassed in rpm, then
the torque went down and so did the hp output. If the rpm is less than the peak
torque point on the curve, then the hp is down again providing less hp ouput
to couple to the airstream as well. Only at that one rpm would the horsepower
be optimized and available to couple with the surrounding airstream.
Horsepower is work done per unit of time ... or as my teacher once said
represents the size of the bucket of energy (work). No work is done if there is
no
resistance to it, so that is represented by drag in this case.
Tropher had a real good dissertation on this in a previous post.
GeorgeRandolph
Firestar driver from The Villages Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Having been around a T-Gull running a IVO in-flight adjustable I think the
difference may be the drag contributed by the airframe. Most airframes
have a speed when approached that returns less speed for an increase of
power. The Kolb being quite draggie may not realize much benefit in the
way of speed from an adjustable prop but may see some benefit in climb when
prop is flattened allowing the engine to turn up and develop HP. The
T-Gull and Titan have slicker airframes thus a wider speed range and a
higher speed barrier point. They may see more benefit from adjustable prop
on this type of airframe as compared to the Kolb.
jerb
>
>
> > Hey Guys,
> > Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience with this in-flight
> > adjustable prop.? Looks interesting but way too rich for me!! -- Earl
> > http://www.ultralightprops.com/adjustprops.htm
>
>
>I had a IVO in-flight adjustable on a 582 Mark III and it was a non event
>for me. I had hoped that it would reduce gas consumption, give a bit better
>speed or at least improve performance. As far as I could tell it did none of
>these things. Yes you could improve on the gas consumption, but when you did
>it reduced the speed to the point that it took the same amount of gas to get
>there, just took longer. I came to believe that you were much better off
>setting the prop to max rpm.s. It was a big disappointment to me. I bought
>the plane from the original owner, and the adjustable prop wasn't working at
>the time. When questioned he didn't think that it was any big deal to have.
>I also came to the same conclusion.
>Larry, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Kolbers,
Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect, slight 8
knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way home I was
thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field landings are performed
in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150 even thinking about it
in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air until it drops on it's own
and so forth. Also reminding myself why this procedure it important in the first
place. Force landings in soft dirt or even mud.
What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on Ms.Dixie...
Later Guys
the student
pp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: hollow shaft gearbox |
In a message dated 12/8/2003 4:50:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rowedl(at)highstream.net writes:
Howard,
The inflight adjustable prop can also be used to keep the engine loaded to
hold down EGTs, this of course adds a little to the pilots workload and may
cause the problems you refer to if a guy looses track of his prop setting.
Dennis Rowe, Mk-3, PA
PS: I'd someday like to adapt a 3.47 to 1 C -box to my 690L, this would
probaby be the single best thing I could do to maximize my already great
performance.
I think the Mk-3 is so dirty that an inflight adjustable would not be worth
the investment.
I run a "C" box 3.47:1 on my 503, pushes my Firestar II with a 68" 3 blade
Warp taper tip.
My Firestar is faster & gets better mileage than the other Firestars at our
field while at the same time running heavier than most.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Paul,
I'm sorry I missed you on my trip to Ms last week. On the way over my car
threw a rod in Selma. I left it there and rented a car for the rest of the
trip. On the way back, my wife met me in Selma with my truck and I rented a
dolly and towed it home. It is an 88 Chrysler Labaron. is showing 167K
miles but it ran good and didn't use any oil. I guess it was it's time to
go. Luckily, I already had a new short block for it. I'll change it out
when I get time.
I'm busy getting my Ultra Star back in the air. I wiped the gear out and am
making repairs.
About your soft field landings etc., I have only flown one Kolb and that's
my Ultra Star. I've been a private pilot for 35 years and have built and
flown two experimentals before the Kolb. I don't know about the other Kolbs
but mine is so light until if you cut the power it will literally stop. It
doesn't have enough mass weight for momentum so if you can't cut the power
when you see you've got the field made and flare at idle and wait for it to
settle onto the runway. You have to carry about 3500 RPM's all the way to
the ground. If you don't, it will stop when you cut the power and stall.
That's what happened to my gear.
The other Kolbs might handle differently.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
>
> Kolbers,
> Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect,
slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way
home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field
landings are performed in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150
even thinking about it in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air
until it drops on it's own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this
procedure it important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or
even mud.
> What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
>
> Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
Ms.Dixie...
>
> Later Guys
>
> the student
>
> pp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
----- Original Message -----
From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
. If the rpm is less than the peak
> torque point on the curve, then the hp is down again providing less hp
ouput
> to couple to the airstream as well. Only at that one rpm would the
horsepower
> be optimized and available to couple with the surrounding airstream.
By George I believe that you have it! I think that is why they do not work
well on the two strokes. It puzzled me a lot when I brought the Mark III
home. Altitude here is 4100 feet. The plane came from 300 feet. I expected
to have trouble with the EGT's at the higher altitude. The prop had
defaulted to 6100 rpm's and was not working. The egt's were 1050. I tried
changing the needle settings, egt's went up. I had to send the motor to the
adjustable in to be repaired, (75.00) since it wasn't working under load. At
6100, the best cruise that I could get was 62 MPH (GPS) I cranked it as far
up as I could get it- 6500 rpms, cruise went up to 67 mph (GPS) Egt's went
up to 1200. The egt's didn't go up on the full throttle, but it did in the
midrange area.I could have changed the jets to reflect the proper egt's at
the max rpm's. but I still think it would have been screwy and not worth the
effort. Where I am speed counts. Its sometimes a long way to the next
refueling area.
Larry, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Merry Christmas to all Kolbers,
I need some held on repairing a hole in my aileron. The prop picked up a rock
and it went through it like a bullet. There is a hole on one side about 1/2"
and about 2" on the other. Do you chemically remove the paint down to the fabric
or sand it off? I know I should get down to the fabric so the fabric cement
can bond the patch to the fabric.
I would appreciate any help.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
Paul
I was sitting here thinking about my Private pilot training after reading
your comments..... The Kolbra has taller gear that would allow a higher
angle of attack on landing than most stock gear Kolbs. With most of us the
only way to do a short field landing is to use our flaps. Not that we are
handicapped very much because of our super flaps but with tall gear and
flaps wow. Which brings me to the question, were you able to get flaps on
the Kolbra? I don't mean flaperons but real flaps like on the MKIIIc?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
>
> Kolbers,
> Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect,
slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way
home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field
landings are performed in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150
even thinking about it in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air
until it drops on it's own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this
procedure it important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or
even mud.
> What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
>
> Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
Ms.Dixie...
>
> Later Guys
>
> the student
>
> pp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Dale,
This is real easy. All you have to do is cut out a patch that will
overlap the size of the hole by an inch rounding off the corners. Prepare
the surface by cleaning around the hole with some lacquer thinner and
pushing the excess material inward. Take a brush and spread a thin layer
of polybrush around the hole. Wait a few minutes and let dry. Take your
patch and center it over the hole. Now take the brush and apply another
coat of polybrush over the patch, starting around the edge of it and
stroking the brush from the center outward. Let it dry and then paint.
If the patch is large, a modeler's heating iron (monocoat) can shrink the
center if there are some wrinkles. Be careful not to overheat as it will
shrink and distort the patch. Do it after the patch has dried overnight.
Start out at low temp and go higher if heating is needed. Most small
patches do not need to be shrunk.
If you do it right, your patch is hardly noticeable.
Ralph
Original Firestar
17 years flying it
writes:
>
>
> Merry Christmas to all Kolbers,
>
> I need some held on repairing a hole in my aileron. The prop picked
> up a rock and it went through it like a bullet. There is a hole on
> one side about 1/2" and about 2" on the other. Do you chemically
> remove the paint down to the fabric or sand it off? I know I should
> get down to the fabric so the fabric cement can bond the patch to
> the fabric.
>
> I would appreciate any help.
>
> Dale Sellers
> Georgia Ultra Star.
>
>
>
> _->
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SGreenpg(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
In a message dated 12/8/03 8:12:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dsel1(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Do you chemically remove the paint down to the fabric or sand it off? I know
I should get down to the fabric so the fabric cement can bond the patch to
the fabric.
I would appreciate any help.
Dale Sellers
Georgia Ultra Star.
Dale,
If it is Polytone paint just use MEK. Also a call to Jim and Dondi may be in
order. 877-877-3334 They will gladly answer all your questions.
Steven G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Patching fabric |
Dale, the first thing you need to do is determine what kind of paint was
used on it.
If it was PolyTone...just get some MEK thinner and a rag...dab the rag in
the thinner and rub the paint off the surrounding area of the whole..then
glue on a patch with polytack..or polybrush. The got the iron and shrink
the patch...then paint it.
If its car paint....recover the control surface
If its latex...recover the control surface
I guess you could use a piece of tape to cover the hole...
If it is Aerothane...
Aww this is gonna get to long....what kind of paint do you have>?
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Paul, depending on what kind of approach you want to make really depends on
how you will land that Kolb. But how you handle the throttle is the key.
If you set up a long final ..likely as you are doing now in that 150, you
will probably carry near cruise power till you are pretty close to the
threshold, then slowly bring back power to maybe 50 % and decend the rest of
the way. If you bring it back to idle...you better have the runway made
because you will have to nose down fast to keep airspeed.
If you saw my video...the approach I made was non typical..as when the wind
is as it was at The Airpark..a correct pattern will take us over the house
of an unfriendly neighbor on base leg and the turn to final...so we usally
cut it short. I stay high till I am very close...then dive down on the
runway and pull the power down to 25% or so...just to above the "rough
spot"in rpms...(you wont have that spot on that 912).. and keep the nose
pretty steep to keep speed. You dont "flare" like you do in that 150...but
you just hold it level when you get close and fly it down to the
ground...maybe adding throttle if you are a tad high.
I am lucky to have my bird where it is as we have 2800 ft x100 of very
smooth turf so we can practice about every kind of approach you can think
of, and I would say the type of airfeild you are going to fly from will
dictate your methods. But as has already been mentioned, there is little
weight/inertia in a Kolb, and when you bring the throttle down...the
airspeed follows very quickly.
On your first few flights..take it somewhere where you have lots of
runway...and pick a spot well past the numbers to sight on, fly it at a slow
cruise to that spot and then hold her level and low while slowly reducing
throttle.if you start having to bring the nose up to stay level,dont, but
put it down while you still have control authority and lift....you will get
the hang of it that way and you will save your gear legs.
I dont think I reduced power below 50% on my FireFly till after I was wheels
down for a dozen flights or so...and depending where i go I'm still as
likely as not to touch down at 35 to 40 mph with 30 or 40 % throttle.
Your approach airspeeds will vary according to the wind conditions, and you
will learn this before your instructor lets you test for your ticket. The
airspeeds might be different, but the logic is the same and the higher the
wind/gusts, the higher your approach speeds will be. It is really only the
way you use the throttle that will be different to keep those same airspeeds
in that Kolb vs that 150.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <JJP45(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
It somewhat erks me to read all the mis-information on this list
about in - flight ajustable props
on two strokes . There was a PROFFESIONAL article in Ultralight Flying just
a few months back
about how well suited in-flight ajustables ARE for two strokes .
I think that it is more of a preference thing or more so a
capability issue than suitablity .
ps: Don't go to a dentist for a heart problem.
JJP
FS II
503 DCDI ( in-flight adjustable , 68" Ivo )
ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Inflight adjustable props
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <GeoR38(at)aol.com>
> . If the rpm is less than the peak
> > torque point on the curve, then the hp is down again providing less hp
> ouput
> > to couple to the airstream as well. Only at that one rpm would the
> horsepower
> > be optimized and available to couple with the surrounding airstream.
>
> By George I believe that you have it! I think that is why they do not work
> well on the two strokes. It puzzled me a lot when I brought the Mark III
> home. Altitude here is 4100 feet. The plane came from 300 feet. I expected
> to have trouble with the EGT's at the higher altitude. The prop had
> defaulted to 6100 rpm's and was not working. The egt's were 1050. I tried
> changing the needle settings, egt's went up. I had to send the motor to
the
> adjustable in to be repaired, (75.00) since it wasn't working under load.
At
> 6100, the best cruise that I could get was 62 MPH (GPS) I cranked it as
far
> up as I could get it- 6500 rpms, cruise went up to 67 mph (GPS) Egt's went
> up to 1200. The egt's didn't go up on the full throttle, but it did in the
> midrange area.I could have changed the jets to reflect the proper egt's at
> the max rpm's. but I still think it would have been screwy and not worth
the
> effort. Where I am speed counts. Its sometimes a long way to the next
> refueling area.
> Larry, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Richard, thanks for the information. I am planning on using the flaps from
the mark 3 model. The Kolbra and the mark3 use the same wing. John H told me
that it is more difficult than just building them and hanging them on the
back of the wing. Says his brother Jim could help me there.
pp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
>
> Paul
>
> I was sitting here thinking about my Private pilot training after reading
> your comments..... The Kolbra has taller gear that would allow a higher
> angle of attack on landing than most stock gear Kolbs. With most of us the
> only way to do a short field landing is to use our flaps. Not that we are
> handicapped very much because of our super flaps but with tall gear and
> flaps wow. Which brings me to the question, were you able to get flaps on
> the Kolbra? I don't mean flaperons but real flaps like on the MKIIIc?
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
> To:
> Subject: Kolb-List: 2nd Solo
>
>
> >
> > Kolbers,
> > Today I logged my second solo! Was fantastic! Conditions near perfect,
> slight 8 knot cross. Practiced some soft field landings ect.... On the way
> home I was thinking about Kolbs of course and wondering how soft field
> landings are performed in them. Being a short time student pilot in a 150
> even thinking about it in the landing phase. Holding that nose in the air
> until it drops on it's own and so forth. Also reminding myself why this
> procedure it important in the first place. Force landings in soft dirt or
> even mud.
> > What's the procedure for Kolbs in this situation?
> >
> > Been some real nice post this week. Headed to the shop to work on
> Ms.Dixie...
> >
> > Later Guys
> >
> > the student
> >
> > pp
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
You got it, Bryan ! ! ! This is the one I was talking about. People
who've used it are real enthusiastic about it. Gives the silver coats,
etc., just like poly tone, but without the MEK fumes. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Covering
>
> Here is a link to waterborne finishing Guys the Dawn Patrol uses it on
there
> planes.
>
>
> http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
> ----- Original Message ----- > > Larry Bourne wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >A couple of years ago, there was quite a bit of talk about the water
> based
> > >paint system for airplanes. Haven't heard anything lately. Anyone
know
> why
> > >?? A couple of Kolb-ers tried it and really liked it.
> Lar.
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Wright Challange On the History Chanel |
The Wright challenge is on the History channel right now. One of the featured planes
is the HD powered Wright Flyer.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <rwpike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Quieter prop, etc. |
Have spent the last three days modifying and testing the Ivoprop. Got some
really thick gen-u-wine prop tape and pinked one edge of it, installed it
full length on the Ivo. Can't tell that it improves the performance, but it
is quieter.
Details at
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg14.html
Last month someone on the list - can't remember who - said that my web page
detailing the relocation of the MKIII flap control mechanism was unclear.
They were right, it was, and that page has been redone, hopefully better.
It is at
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg3.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "boyd young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | hd wright brothers plane |
. One of the featured planes
is the HD powered Wright Flyer.
on dec 17 the HD powered wright brothers plane will fly again at the brigham city
Ut.airport before being shiped back to Dayton. If anyone wants to drop
by i should be able to get you onboard for a photo.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.L.Turner" <jimturner(at)mwt.net> |
Has anybody had any experience with "Cermakrome" for coating exhaust pipes & mufflers?
One web site that formerly sold it now claims it is unavailable pending
reformulation. But I see Aircraft Spruce and others still offer it. Comments?
Jim Turner
Firestar 377
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic" <vicw(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: water based system |
I used the Aircraft Finishing Systems water based system, same one used by
Dawn Patrol, on my Kolb. Would use it again and would not go back to Stitz
with all the strong chemicals.
Vic
________________________________________________________________________________
Kolbers,
Today I looked in the NAPA catalogs for a shop apron. After polishing out those
scratches, I looked like I had been tar'd n feathered. Ran across a real cool
shop apron made by Mechaix the gloves guys. It has pockets 5 in all and a place
to put your marker. The pockets on the lower part will come in handy for clecos,
pliers, glasses ect... also has the adjustable straps and quick release
gizmos. Will save a bunch of steps from the horses to the roll around. Here's
the good part it's only 24.99 retail.
part number 763-1122 if anyone wants one.
pp
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/10/2003 2:08:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jimturner(at)mwt.net writes:
Has anybody had any experience with "Cermakrome" for coating exhaust pipes &
mufflers? One web site that formerly sold it now claims it is unavailable
pending reformulation. But I see Aircraft Spruce and others still offer it.
Comments?
Jim Turner
Firestar 377
I would like to recommend "Jet-Hot", 1-800-432-3379
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
BTW, my email address is dsel1(at)bellsouth.net
Dale Sellers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Jim:
Tried C-chrome on the 447 exhaust/muffler... paid careful attention to the
instructions... did it by the numbers... Lasted about 8 months before
fresh rust began to pop through in numerous places... Got angry and
unreasonable... chewed cigar and vigorously wirebrushed entire muffler
again, wiped it down with acetone, and brushed on C-chrome again right over
the old finish, right on the airplane.. no oven - no baking - no killing
the canary and house cats with the patented nerve-gas fumes.... That was
5 months ago... dried in 1 hour to a nice light gray flat finish which has
been totally durable so far... I like the way it looks and wish I had done
it this way the first time... Will report further developments as they
occur...
Cheap Beauford
FF # 076
Brandon, FL
----- Original Message -----
>
> Has anybody had any experience with "Cermakrome" for coating exhaust pipes
& mufflers? Comments?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Native American Artist <cartoonface2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:MKIII mods vs. inflight adjustable props |
I really liked these idea's in particular:
Changed to cut down windshield, wing center section was in free air, top speed
went to 88, climb improved.
covered the wing with v/g's.
I would think most MKIII owners who had the time and money would at least add
VG's.
However...my question is, what impact does these configurations have on getting
an N numbered aircraft?
Are you deviating from the design the N number was assigned to? Do you need an
STC ?
I'm obviously rusty with FAR's but if you were experimental you could probably
get away with just about anything, but then again, where most ultralights fly
doesn't seem to tickle a "ramp inspection"....?
I'm in need of educating here guys N gals.
I'd like to think a MKIII Xtra with those mods would be sweet.
Marty
http://cartoonface.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mid-State Sandblasting" <plane(at)rtmc.net> |
| Subject: | used 503 for sale |
rotax 503 single carb, single ignition, [points] electric start, muffler,
for Kolb type aircraft, adapter plate for gear box, no gear box
runs good less then 200 hour tt 900.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
In a message dated 12/10/2003 7:20:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
JJP45(at)comcast.net writes:
To my own amazment I've located the article in question : It's in the
July 2003 issue , Ultralight
Flying Magazine , on page 29 ,by Roger Zerkle , he's an FAA airframe and
powerplant mechanic with more than 30 years experience, a private pilot who
builds ultralights and other aircraft , and an aircraft maintenance
instructor for an area college for 15 years . Roger owns and manages ZDE , a
regional service center and distributor for 2 Stoke International and a
Rotax repair station .
That's the same guy.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron(at)gamespeak.com> |
I want to repitch my warp-drive prop on my Mk3 and want the rundown on doing it.
I bought a warp-drive protractor/level for it but I'm not sure the following:
- how far onto the blade to clamp the level
- how to read the level... (bit embarrassing, but there are inner and outer #s
that look to be on different scales)
- what inch/# to re-torque prop bolts when I am done.
any other dos and don'ts in regards to pitching the blades would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks all,
Aaron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <JJP45(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
Howard ,
Your comment that , " That's the same guy " inferrs that he doesn't know
what he's talking about.
If so , we all have issues with Ultralight Flying printing mis -
information . I would think they
would only print articles that have some MERIT , from credible knowledgeable
people .
I tend to to hear / read and retain only that , that interest me .The
fact that I've been shifting
my FS II in - air , and enjoying the suttle changes , makes me believe in
Mr. Zerkle's article .
He certainly is more experianced than I , but who knows we may someday owe
you an appology.
Until then I'll keep putting hours on the clock with my self twisting blades
.
The point of this entire discussion was to deffer to the MOST
knowledgeable person , rather
than make a statment of fact out of frustration .
flying for fun
JJP
FS II
503 DCDI ( 68" Ivo IFA )
----- Original Message -----
From: <HShack(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Inflight adjustable props
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2003 7:20:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JJP45(at)comcast.net writes:
> To my own amazment I've located the article in question : It's in the
> July 2003 issue , Ultralight
> Flying Magazine , on page 29 ,by Roger Zerkle , he's an FAA airframe and
> powerplant mechanic with more than 30 years experience, a private pilot
who
> builds ultralights and other aircraft , and an aircraft maintenance
> instructor for an area college for 15 years . Roger owns and manages ZDE ,
a
> regional service center and distributor for 2 Stoke International and a
> Rotax repair station .
> That's the same guy.
>
> Howard Shackleford
> FS II
> SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
All,
Has anyone had any experience with the Prince P-tip propellor? It
seems like an interesting idea!
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Elder" <billelder(at)denver.net> |
| Subject: | Re: repitching prop |
Aaron - go to the Warp Drive web site. Warp provides instructions and
torque values. Put the protractor within an inch of the end of the blade.
Bill in Colorado
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron(at)gamespeak.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: repitching prop
>
> I want to repitch my warp-drive prop on my Mk3 and want the rundown on
doing it. I bought a warp-drive protractor/level for it but I'm not sure the
following:
>
> - how far onto the blade to clamp the level
> - how to read the level... (bit embarrassing, but there are inner and
outer #s that look to be on different scales)
> - what inch/# to re-torque prop bolts when I am done.
>
> any other dos and don'ts in regards to pitching the blades would be
greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Aaron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: repitching prop |
I'm missing some of my Warp Drive paperwork, but I did make a note that the
torque is 200 in/lb, (14 ft/lb). The protractor should be clamped to the
blade as close to the tip as possible. I don't really see where it would
matter much if it was in a couple of inches, as long as all blades are at
exactly the same pitch. Use the same scale on each blade. If it said to
pitch your prop to a specific degree, then everything would be a lot more
critical, but we aren't doing that. You might want to take a look on my
website, under Building Vamoose / Prop Pitching w/ Laser.
Have fun, and good luck. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Mess
age -----
From: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron(at)gamespeak.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: repitching prop
>
> I want to repitch my warp-drive prop on my Mk3 and want the rundown on
doing it. I bought a warp-drive protractor/level for it but I'm not sure the
following:
>
> - how far onto the blade to clamp the level
> - how to read the level... (bit embarrassing, but there are inner and
outer #s that look to be on different scales)
> - what inch/# to re-torque prop bolts when I am done.
>
> any other dos and don'ts in regards to pitching the blades would be
greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Aaron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
to the gang..
While its true that you dont have to be a certified expert to write an
article for a trade magazine...Its usually pretty easy for an expierienced
fella to see thru a article when it is erroneous, however many of the people
are reading an article because they DONT have expierience in that particular
subject, and are attempting to learn something.
Being in the engine biz fer an awful long time...I have known Mr. Zerkle
for...hmmm...20 years next summer I think.
in addition to his above mentioned credentials...here are some more of his
expieriences that may or may not be known to all.
USN aboard CV10....USS Yorktown, (The Fighting lady herself.) Aircraft
mechanic./later crew cheif on S-2.(late 60's)
Owner of a Kawasaki motorcycle Dealership (early an mid 70's) (remember them
3 cyl 2 strokes?)
FAA...Designated Airworthyness Inspector (DAI)
OF course the above mentioned A&P at FBO Olney/Noble airport, A&P program
instructor and Vincennes University, and current rotax repair station and
2SI distributor.
Also..you might remember that champion Fisher Celebrity Mike Fisher had
about..hmm 10 years ago?...Mr.Zerkle Built it top to bottom for Mike in his
shop in Flatrock, Illinois.
I am not posting this in an effort to support Mr. Zerkle's article on
IN-flight adjustables, which of course I read. But only to help those who
dont know him to understand he is not zactly green in the engine biz.
I read few articles in avaition mag's written where I recognize an
individuals expertise in the internal combustion engine.
In Mr. Zerkles articles I see an understanding second to very few.
Heck men..sometimes I think he might know almost as much as me about
engines!..(hehehe...smile will ya, I found the donuts!)
Happy Holidays
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr ASC/TM <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: repitching prop |
"Aaron Hollingsworth" asked:
- how far onto the blade to clamp the level
- how to read the level... (bit embarrassing, but there are inner and outer
#s
that look to be on different scales)
- what inch/# to re-torque prop bolts when I am done.
Thanks all, Aaron
==================
Aaron -
The Warp-Drive prop protractor is the best/easiest prop adjustment tool on
the market - you made a good choice!
Measure your blade angle at the tip.
Make sure the blade you are adjusting is horizontal.
Be sure to first measure what angle off-vertical your engine sits at, and
subtract that number of degrees when setting your prop angle.
My Powerfin prop specifies tightening each 8mm prop bolt to 175 inch-pounds.
Your Warp may have a different value.
You'll have best results if you tighten the bolts a little at a time,
alternating between bolts, and work your way up to the final torque setting
in steps.
Good luck -
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, Verner-1400 in
Cedar Crest, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jam'n" <jghunter(at)nol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
about> engines!..(hehehe...smile will ya, I found the donuts!)
donuts?
...donuts???
more donuts?
:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: drag strut tang |
Paul,
The drag strut is the one that runs from the trailing edge of the inboard
steel rib (fits in a socket there) to the alum bracket/saddle that goes
around the main spar tube around mid-point. This should be installed to keep
the wing square after the ribs are all slid onto the main spar and correctly
located.
I believe on your Kolbra wing, there is an extra steel support that will
attach somewhere along this strut to the main spar in a fore an aft
direction to help stiffen the drag strut. None of this interferes with
covering.
The Lift strut is the one that goes from the bracket above the landing gear
socket to the alum saddle on the main spar.and the lift strut tangs prutrude
thru the covering.(My FireFly has 2 on each wing, for the double lift
struts. I believe the Kolbra should have 1 each. (Kolbras do have single
lift struts dont they?)
I really dont see how you could attach that tang after you cover the
wing....lota rivets...angle of the rivet gun and such....
It is really not a hard thing to cover.
You will drap the covering over the underside of the wing...as it is upside
down on your bench/horses..
after arranging the fabric accordingly..I glued down the edges and even
shrunk the fabric just a tad..so the tangs were really pushing on the
fabric...then simply took a blade and made slits in the fabric and fished
the tang thru...
You will surround the slit around the tangs with extra fabric tapes, just as
you do with any protrusions thru a covering, to re-inforce this area.
Dont beconcerned if you get a bigger hole than you think it oughtta be...and
as the fabric is tightened up the rest of the way..if you get a wrinkle from
the slit not being aligned just right around the tang...just cut the hole so
the wrinkles are gone..and the fabric is not pulling against the tang. AS
you cut the reinforcing patchs to surround this tang, it is gonna cover up
the hole and then is when you will get a good close fit around the tang.
Dont worry about it..it really is easy...
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drag strut tang |
If you put the bolt in before you cover but not the lift strut tang you will
you need to tighten the bolt on the tang and that would require that you
hold the top of the bolt which would be tough without some access. An access
port would look worse than working around the tang. It is also a good idea
to get that bolt in and tight while you are working in that area. There was
a case were someone built a Kolb with only the rivets holding the tang to
the wing. On the first flight (I think or may be shortly after) the tang
separated from the wing in the air. Don't make that mistake!
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: drag strut tang
>
> Kolbers,
> Reading over the instructions and looking at the photos in preparation for
the "Big Step" of drilling the holes in the ribs. One photo shows the drag
strut tang riveted into place. Question is, how does one cover this part of
the wing? Could I wait until after covering to install the tang. Would look
better I think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inflight adjustable props |
In a message dated 12/11/2003 5:50:22 AM Central Standard Time,
JJP45(at)comcast.net writes:
> He certainly is more experianced than I , but who knows we may someday owe
> you an appology.
> Until then I'll keep putting hours on the clock with my self twisting blades
> .
> The point of this entire discussion was to deffer to the MOST
> knowledgeable person , rather
> than make a statment of fact out of frustration
>
> This Kolb world is not professional versus amateur, it is a world of
> opinions, and experiences, which we share and enjoy. No one on this list is treated
> as an expert or professional, only as a friend who can help, whether
> frustrated or not.
> George Randolph
> Firestar driver from The Villages, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
I knew some folks who used Blue River's (I think thats what it was called)
water based covering system. They were very happy with how it applied and
how it looked with finished; I saw the finished N3 Pup and it looked great.
But when the time came to fix a damaged wing, they found it near impossible
to do a decent fabric patch and at that point were pretty unhappy campers.
Maybe that is not a problem any more; but it would be a good question to
inquire about.
Dennis
>
> I think the best characteristic of Poly-Tone is its repair-ablity...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
Hi Terry,
Prince makes a beautiful propeller! We had one on the Laser it looked very
nice with spinner ... and was the fastest prop of every one we tried. If
you had a Laser that needed a prop I would probably say it would be a toss
up between a Prince and Warp (the Warp would give a bit less top end, but
the acceleration and climb would be significantly better than the Prince.
But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about props.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry" <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
> All,
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the Prince P-tip propellor? It
> seems like an interesting idea!
>
> Terry - FireFly #95
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> Hi Terry,
>
> Prince makes a beautiful propeller! We had one on the Laser it looked very
> nice with spinner ... and was the fastest prop of every one we tried. If
> you had a Laser that needed a prop I would probably say it would be a toss
> up between a Prince and Warp (the Warp would give a bit less top end, but
> the acceleration and climb would be significantly better than the Prince.
> But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
> right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
>
> Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about props.
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry" <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net>
> To: "kolb-list"
> Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience with the Prince P-tip propellor? It
> > seems like an interesting idea!
> >
> > Terry - FireFly #95
> >
> >
>
Dennis,
Thanks for the info. I'm really inquiring for a friend that is considering it
for a SlingShot.
I am doing a little experimenting on my wood prop, taking a note from the RC
guys with the new blades they are using. Looking for quieter and more efficient
performance, mostly quieter. Waiting for a break in the weather to see how I
made out and also till I get back from the 100 yr. celebration at First Flight
the next couple of days. Will then let you know how I made out. I might be in
the market for a new prop depending on how it does. Hopefully not!!!!!!!!
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Dennis,
Good to see your still lurking on the list. Have you had any exposure to
the Powerfin prop?
jerb
>
>Hi Terry,
>
>Prince makes a beautiful propeller! We had one on the Laser it looked very
>nice with spinner ... and was the fastest prop of every one we tried. If
>you had a Laser that needed a prop I would probably say it would be a toss
>up between a Prince and Warp (the Warp would give a bit less top end, but
>the acceleration and climb would be significantly better than the Prince.
>But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
>right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
>
>Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about props.
>
>Dennis
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Terry" <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net>
>To: "kolb-list"
>Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
>
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience with the Prince P-tip propellor? It
> > seems like an interesting idea!
> >
> > Terry - FireFly #95
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | heat treating -- 4130 gear legs |
Hi all,
I'm trying to get the 4130 gear leg subject as fun as Seafoam
discussions of days gone by. Just funnin you Ralph!
Anyway.... I made a second set of 4130 legs and sent them to Braddock.
Before sending them, I talked with the plant manager about unwanted
bending and he said a rule of thumb was 0.001" bend per 1" of length.
Oooh Yeah, says I, this sounds great; I'd be happy with a bend
tolerence of 3x or 4x that -- about 1/8" over 34". (One could also say
this rule of thumb sounds too good to be true.)
OK, got em back and one leg is 1/8" out of straight and the other is
almost 3/8"! 1/8 is acceptable, but 3/8 is not. So, I called Braddock
back and the plant manager is willing to try to straighten the leg. He
said the method is to apply mild heat and straighten. He says the
hardness quality won't change as long as the heat is kept low, dull
red. But I have my doubts about this claim. Does anyone know?
In reality, I'd rather shorten a leg by a tiny bit than screw up the
hardness. Glad I didn't finalize all holes before sending these off!
-Ben Ransom
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
Hi Jerb,
No I haven't; but I have heard good things about it. I am not sure I could
qualify as even being a lurker this past year - but now that winters here,
I do have a little more time - but ... my shop beckons ...
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
> Dennis,
> Good to see your still lurking on the list. Have you had any exposure to
> the Powerfin prop?
> jerb
>
> >
> >Hi Terry,
> >
> >Prince makes a beautiful propeller! We had one on the Laser it looked
very
> >nice with spinner ... and was the fastest prop of every one we tried. If
> >you had a Laser that needed a prop I would probably say it would be a
toss
> >up between a Prince and Warp (the Warp would give a bit less top end, but
> >the acceleration and climb would be significantly better than the Prince.
> >But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
> >right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
> >
> >Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about
props.
> >
> >Dennis
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Terry" <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net>
> >To: "kolb-list"
> >Subject: Kolb-List: Propellor
> >
> >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Has anyone had any experience with the Prince P-tip propellor? It
> > > seems like an interesting idea!
> > >
> > > Terry - FireFly #95
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
Terry
My take on previous prop discussions -- on this list and elsewhere:
Ivo: smoothest but least efficient. Great for the smaller engines,
and what the heck, we generally aren't entering in the CAFE races
anyway.
Warp: Most efficient, Great for the bigger engines. Hi rotational
inertia makes them rattle the smaller engines, and rumored detriment to
smaller gearboxes (RotaxB).
Powerfin: somewhere in between on both counts (smoothness and
performance).
Wood (Culver or Tennessee?): almost as good as the Warp in
performance, but the added risk of wood props as a pusher.
I've got a Warp 66" high aspect and a Powerfin 60" (B I think) on a
447. I've got just a little time (15 hours?) on the Powerfin compared
to 180 on the Warp. The Warp is noticably better performance -- maybe
150fpm better climb, and slightly better cruise (2-5mph). I've thought
it shakes more near idle, but want to put it back on to compare again.
I sit on another list (Murphy) where people generally use Sensenich
metal props on Lyc 0320s. These are good, efficient (and expensive)
props. A few have recently changed to the Prince carbon prop and found
it 10% higher thrust, 100fpm better climb and 25lbs lighter(!!) than
the Sensenich, not to mention a work of art as far as looks go. Also
cheaper than the FAA stamped Sensenich. But don't bank much on this
info, as I have no idea if their props for small engines are good or
good value.
-Ben Ransom
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Prince p-tip prop |
I posed a question about the Prince P-tip prop several months ago and got no response.
It sounds great- a self-adjusting in-flight prop that promises less noise.
The prop cones forward on takeoff, decreasing the pitch in the process.
As cruise is reached, the coning is reduced and the pitch is increased. It
says the change in pitch is 4 inches from takeoff to cruise. It comes in wood/composite
in 2,3 and 4 blades. I don't know if anyone has one on a Kolb. I
would be very interested in one for my Mark IIIXtra, but I wonder if the coning
would cause clearance problems with the pusher configuration. Other concerns
would be high cost. The way I compute it the cost would be $900 for a 70" two
blade prop and 3 times that for a 3-blade prop according to the ACS catalog
formula (maybe I'm wrong). The other concern would be the non-adjustability
of the prop. If there are some Mark IIIs or similar planes flying with this prop,
you would have an idea where to start with pitch, but I wouldn't want to
be the test pilot for a new application on my Xtra. Maybe Prince is easy to work
with and could come up with the proper match for someone.
There is a very good description of this prop in Aircraft Spruce (p. 167 in the
newest catalog)
Clay Stuart
building Mark IIIXtra
Danville KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
All this prop talk got me to wondering. Do any of these props yall are talkin about
require dynamic balancing? I use two different models of Chadwick-Helmuth
balancers on our helos. Sure does make a big difference in the ride withproperly
track balanced rotor systems. The Chadwicks will do prop balancing too. It's
amazing how much a few grams of weight in the wrong place can throw your ips
measurement right off the chart. Lemme know if any of yall have had your prop
dynamically balanced. May be worth it to try, might add some hours to the powerplant's
life.
Guy Morgan
Galveston, TX (helo mech, avionics tech, MXII Sprint jockey, Kolber wanna-be)
Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: heat treating -- 4130 gear legs |
Ben, I would bend them cold, when the steel legs on Citabrias and
Cessnas got bent you could bend them straight at least once with no
problems, provided they weren't too far gone. It will take several
attempts on a press to get near what you want, measuring total deflection
each attempt. I was surprised how much of a banana it took to
straighten an aluminum leg. -BB
Ben Ransom wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>I'm trying to get the 4130 gear leg subject as fun as Seafoam
>discussions of days gone by. Just funnin you Ralph!
>
>Anyway.... I made a second set of 4130 legs and sent them to Braddock.
>Before sending them, I talked with the plant manager about unwanted
>bending and he said a rule of thumb was 0.001" bend per 1" of length.
>Oooh Yeah, says I, this sounds great; I'd be happy with a bend
>tolerence of 3x or 4x that -- about 1/8" over 34". (One could also say
>this rule of thumb sounds too good to be true.)
>
>OK, got em back and one leg is 1/8" out of straight and the other is
>almost 3/8"! 1/8 is acceptable, but 3/8 is not. So, I called Braddock
>back and the plant manager is willing to try to straighten the leg. He
>said the method is to apply mild heat and straighten. He says the
>hardness quality won't change as long as the heat is kept low, dull
>red. But I have my doubts about this claim. Does anyone know?
>
>In reality, I'd rather shorten a leg by a tiny bit than screw up the
>hardness. Glad I didn't finalize all holes before sending these off!
>-Ben Ransom
>
>=====
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>__________________________________
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Ben,
Could you elaborate more regarding your comment below about the added risk
of wood props as a pusher - the only disadvantages I see of wood props
whether used in a tractor or pusher application are as follows:
1. The blades need to stored in a horizontal position between flights to
keep them balanced as the moisture in the wood will migrate towards the
lowest point making them out of balance.
2. They must be re-torqued on 10-25 hour intervals.
3. They can suffer leading edge erosion if operated in rain. (You have to
see this just once.)
Could you comment more as a performance comparison between the IVO (number
of blade and length) and the Powerfin (type of blades, number, and length).
jerb
snip..
>Wood (Culver or Tennessee?): almost as good as the Warp in
>performance, but the added risk of wood props as a pusher.
snip...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prince p-tip prop |
I am pretty certain the Warp works by stalling the tip - not by coning,
twisting or other means of distortion. The props are dialed in by careful
trimming of the tips - its why they are called taper tips. The shorter
chord at the tip would promote stalling a bit before the wider chord further
in at no-to-low forward speed. As forward speed increases the angle of
inflow to blade lessens and flow becomes attached and the tips start
pulling.
Most props will cone unless it is an over designed propeller. Take a 582
which produces say 375 lbs of thrust. That would be 125 lb per blade for a
3-blade prop. Take a rope and tie it about 2/3 the distance out to the tip
and pull with 125 lbs and you'll see some flex.
Dennis
> BTW, the method by which Warp achieves it's so-called automatic varible
> pitch has been pondered in the past too. One nice theory was that at
> high AOA such as when the plane is going slow, the tips are actually
> stalling, therefore unloading just a tad, and allowing higher rpms. At
> higher airplane speed, lower relative AOA of the prop, no tip stalling
> and full bite of the air column. But then someone surprised me by
> saying that know for sure that the Warp cones forward just as the
> Prince. I always thought the Warps were too stiff but the user said
> he's seen it, and it too is about 4" flex (this on a 150hp engine and
> matched Warp prop).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
Dennis Souder wrote:
> But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
> right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
>
> Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about props.
Hi Dennis,
Here is my question. I am happy with the Ivo on our MkII. But I own a
Rans S6ES which uses a left hand prop. I understand that Ivo's left hand
blades are different than the right hand blades. Do you or anyone else
on the list have any experience with left hand Ivo's?
P.S. Where along the Susquehanna river do you live? Earl
Zimmerman
MKIIC
582 66" Ivo
Elizabethtown, Pa.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
Hi Earl,
Yes, I tried the Ivo on the Laser with Rotax 582 and that is when I realized
how poor they are for higher speeds. This was the only left hand Ivo I had
any experience with and no, I was not aware the left hand prop was different
than the right. (I am assuming that you mean they did not create an exact
mirror image of the right hand prop when the did the left hand version?) I
started with a 66" Ivo on the Laser and then kept cutting it down because I
thought a smaller dia might help the top end. I stopped at 60" and realized
that the Ivo just wasn't designed for higher speeds over 100 mph. But even
on the SS, I felt the Ivo wasn't the best choice. But for FF and FS I think
they are just great. I would think your Rans would be fast enough to
benefit from a prop other than Ivo.
Order of top speed on the Laser: Prince was faster than every other
propeller. Some other 2-blade woods were better than the composites. But
the Prince and 2-blade wood props were only 60" dia. Larger diameters did
not work because a pitch for reasonable take-off was too shallow for top
end. The Warp was the best compromise, it was not quite as fast as the
Prince, but acceleration and climb were much better than the Prince. Today,
the medium Ivo with inflight adjust would probably be a winner.
I live in Millersburg which is about half way between Harrisburg and
Sunbury.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl & Mim Zimmerman" <emzi(at)supernet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
> Dennis Souder wrote:
>
> > But my preferene for the FF is still the Ivo. I am fixing a damaged FF
> > right now and I already have a new Ivo ready to install.
> >
> > Look around and ask lots of questions - lots out there to learn about
props.
>
> Hi Dennis,
> Here is my question. I am happy with the Ivo on our MkII. But I own a
> Rans S6ES which uses a left hand prop. I understand that Ivo's left hand
> blades are different than the right hand blades. Do you or anyone else
> on the list have any experience with left hand Ivo's?
>
> P.S. Where along the Susquehanna river do you live? Earl
> Zimmerman
> MKIIC
> 582 66" Ivo
>
> Elizabethtown, Pa.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
--- jerb wrote:
>
> Ben,
> Could you elaborate more regarding your comment below about the added
> risk
> of wood props as a pusher - the only disadvantages I see of wood
> props
Hi Jerb,
I'm referring to the better protection from chipping or splintering of
a composite prop compared to wood. A tractor has some possibilty of
picking up a pebble, but a pusher has the added possibilty of whacking
anything coming off the airplane in front of it. Especially open
cockpit pushers, the pilot ought to make darn sure everything in his
cockpit and pockets are going to stay put during the flight. Also,
pushers have the risk of pebbles coming up from the tires getting into
the prop. This esp true if the prop is close to the ground as in the
Ultrastar. I think these are manageable risk areas, but they are added
factors, and a more bullet proof prop would be good insurance IMO.
>
> Could you comment more as a performance comparison between the IVO
> (number
> of blade and length) and the Powerfin (type of blades, number, and
> length).
> jerb
I don't know enf to comment specifically. Generally tho, thrust and
efficiency comes from greater prop diameter (think about moving a small
disk or column of air with a smaller diameter 3 blade, compared to
moving a bigger column of air with a larger 2 blade). It is also true
that a prop being extremely flexible, or flexible in the "wrong
directions" allows for it to dump its load instead of making thrust. I
think (guessing), that the IVO excels in its smoothness and is weak in
thrust -- compared to other props -- because it is a relatively
flexible plastic. The Powerfin is foam core, composite shell if I
recall, and is pretty good at absorbing vibration (like wood) without
the expense of high flex and changing its aerodynamic qualities. Warps
are solid composite --heavier, near bullet-proof, and very rigid.
-Ben
> snip..
> >Wood (Culver or Tennessee?): almost as good as the Warp in
> >performance, but the added risk of wood props as a pusher.
> snip...
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | 2 Honda engines on Ebay |
Here is a four stroke for you to experiment with.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=2448438777
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jo and Larry" <joandlp(at)starband.net> |
We are about ready to paint our Firestar II and we are looking for some
nose art and stripes, decals preferred. Anyone have info on where to find?
Thanks,
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Jo and Larry,
Try www.decalzone.com
Dale Sellers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp(at)starband.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Nose art?
>
>
> We are about ready to paint our Firestar II and we are looking for some
> nose art and stripes, decals preferred. Anyone have info on where to find?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Larry,
I got my stars and lettering from Decalzone.com...they have tons a stuff in
good quality vinyl.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Dennis,
What is this Laser you have mentioned?
Kitplane? UL?..EXP?.
Is there a website somewhere where I can see a pic of one?
Just curious
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron(at)gamespeak.com> |
I did my solo X-Country today in my Mk3. What fun. It is amazing how easy it is
to 2nd guess yourself with only maps and no GPS. I know what santa needs to bring
me now. I wanted to run some speeds and rpms by the group to see how they
compare:
solo ~215lbs. I cruised my first leg at 63-65mph indicated at about 5100rpm. I
thought the lower rpm would save some fuel even though it would take longer to
get there. I was wrong. First and second leg were both right over 50 miles (minimal
wind). The second leg I cruised at 5800rpm showing 85mph indicated. I burned
less gas and arrived about 15 minutes faster. I did notice at about 88-90
(slight dive at 5800rpm) indicated my wing tips would shutter a little, getting
very noticeable over 90. I know the VNE is 100, but considering the shutter
I don't think I would want to go over 90.
Anyway... It was a beautiful Colorado morning. Meadowlake to Frontrage to Limon
to Colorado Springs East back to Meadowlake for a total of 152 miles. I have
done some dual X-Country in a piper archer2.. cruising at about 110Kts. It sure
was more rewarding to cruise around slower and lower in my mk3... I have a new
appreciation for those kolbers that fly around the country. It must be a hell
of a thrill to tour in a kolb.
Regards,
Aaron
Mk3 - 618
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2 Honda engines on Ebay |
Represented as new but sure didn't look new to me. Apparently this guy is
a wheeler dealer judging by his other auctions.
jerb
>
>
>
>Here is a four stroke for you to experiment with.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=2448438777
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
> Dennis,
> What is this Laser you have mentioned?
> Kitplane? UL?..EXP?.
>
> Is there a website somewhere where I can see a pic of one?
>
> Just curious
>
>
> Don Gherardini
> FireFly 098
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
Don,
The Laser is a low wing side by side Kolb design from the early 90s that did
not make it to production.
Kind of like a fabric covered Sonex. Nice and speedy and good looking too.
I'll let the Dennis you were asking fill in other details. :-)
Denny Rowe
Mk-3, Leechburg, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo X-Country |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Hollingsworth" <aaron(at)gamespeak.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Solo X-Country
>
> I did my solo X-Country today in my Mk3. What fun. It is amazing how easy
it is to 2nd guess yourself with only maps and no GPS. I know what santa
needs to bring me now. I wanted to run some speeds and rpms by the group to
see how they compare:
>
> solo ~215lbs. I cruised my first leg at 63-65mph indicated at about
5100rpm. I thought the lower rpm would save some fuel even though it would
take longer to get there. I was wrong. First and second leg were both right
over 50 miles (minimal wind). The second leg I cruised at 5800rpm showing
85mph indicated. I burned less gas and arrived about 15 minutes faster. I
did notice at about 88-90 (slight dive at 5800rpm) indicated my wing tips
would shutter a little, getting very noticeable over 90. I know the VNE is
100, but considering the shutter I don't think I would want to go over 90.
>
> Anyway... It was a beautiful
Aaron
I am surprised the 618 uses as much gas at 5100 as it does at 5800, are you
sure it wasn't the wind?
My 690L burns less than 3.3 gph at 5100, but seems like it gets up around
4.7gph at 5800.
These two engines are pretty different so I suppose I'm comparing apples and
oranges.
Congrats on the cross country, I am stuck at 36.3 hrs due to our weather. I
can't wait to get out and go somewhere in this baby.
Sincerely,
Denny Rowe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo X-Country |
Aaron Hollingsworth wrote:
>I did notice at about 88-90 (slight dive at 5800rpm) indicated my wing tips would
shutter a little, getting very noticeable over 90. I know the VNE is 100,
but considering the shutter I don't think I would want to go over 90.
>
>
>Aaron, do you have aileron counterbalances? -BB do not arhive
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best Propeller |
At 09:33 PM 12/13/2003, you wrote:
>
>My 2 cents worth:
>This summer I visited the Rotax tent in Oshkosh and I asked the 3
>gentlemen working there what was the best propeller I could buy for a
>503 Rotax engine...all 3 of them looked at me and said "the French
>Arplast is by far the best propellor for this engine". I did not
>purchase the French Arplast because the price was out of my league..but
>something to consider in the future.
I've heard them run and they're pretty amazing - as far as noise is
concerned. Don't know about performance, but I agree with you on the price.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
You can also try www.speedysigns.com. They treated me fairly with mine, and
did some customizing, as well. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Nose art?
>
> Jo and Larry,
>
> Try www.decalzone.com
>
> Dale Sellers
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jo and Larry" <joandlp(at)starband.net>
> To:
> Subject: Kolb-List: Nose art?
>
>
> >
> >
> > We are about ready to paint our Firestar II and we are looking for some
> > nose art and stripes, decals preferred. Anyone have info on where to
find?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
,
> Here is my question. I am happy with the Ivo on our MkII. But I own a
> Rans S6ES which uses a left hand prop. I understand that Ivo's left hand
> blades are different than the right hand blades. Do you or anyone else
> on the list have any experience with left hand Ivo's?
>
Earl Zimmerman
Earl,
I have used two and three blade IVOs on my 503 Powered Loehle "Tractor
configuration" and they performed really well.
A friend had a belt drive on his Loehle so he had a right hand prop and the
blades looked the same as mine.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Best Propeller |
At 09:45 PM 12/13/2003, you wrote:
>I've heard them run and they're pretty amazing - as far as noise is
>concerned. Don't know about performance, but I agree with you on the price.
I had a trike once, and it had a 503 with the Arplast prop... I could fly
the thing without ear protection, it was so quiet, and it's performance was
better than the Warp, Tennessee and Ivo I've had since. A lot of money,
but worth every penny.
-- R
________________________________________________________________________________
Well men...I have 2 IVOS...a 3blade right..and a 3 blade left...I thought
they were both 60 inchs..
They are not however. one measures 61 3/4 (the left) And I have never
measured the right hand, although it was presented as a 60 when I bought it
new.
I had the left on a 2,5 belt drive on my fly...and when I lost one a them
polychain belts at 32 hours...I switched it to a 2.65 gearbox and a right
hand Ivo.
So I really cant make any good comparisons on how they preform...being at 2
different ratios. BUT...I can tell you that the right hand prop does look
different than the left. In the wide part of the airfoil..there is more
there than on the left hand prop. It is wider I believe ..although I have
never measured the right hand prop...but it looks wider and looks like there
is more pitch in that spot from eyeballin it.
I also have had a 3 blade 60 inch Sport prop on it...real pretty ...that
black carbon fiber. All I really can say is it was a tad harder for the
Cuyuna to turn. even being lighter than the ivos...the rpms didnt come up as
quick...but I wont say any more because I just didnt have it on there long
enough to give it a good workout. I thought I had it pitched about the same,
as I measured the ivo with a protractor and set the sport accordingly...then
checked the rpms and they were about right. But as I said..didnt run it long
enough to really get to know it.
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
Would not the IVO blades have to be reversed in the hub to get the proper
side of the blades facing forward and the hub to mount to the gear box in
the correct orientation - can that be done due to the blade pitch torsion
rods mating to the hub?
jerb
>
>
>,
> > Here is my question. I am happy with the Ivo on our MkII. But I own a
> > Rans S6ES which uses a left hand prop. I understand that Ivo's left hand
> > blades are different than the right hand blades. Do you or anyone else
> > on the list have any experience with left hand Ivo's?
> >
> Earl Zimmerman
>
>
>Earl,
>I have used two and three blade IVOs on my 503 Powered Loehle "Tractor
>configuration" and they performed really well.
>A friend had a belt drive on his Loehle so he had a right hand prop and the
>blades looked the same as mine.
>Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Propellor
>
> Would not the IVO blades have to be reversed in the hub to get the proper
> side of the blades facing forward and the hub to mount to the gear box in
> the correct orientation - can that be done due to the blade pitch torsion
> rods mating to the hub?
> jerb
Jerb,
By stating in my post below that the blades looked the same, I didn't mean
to imply that they were interchangable, I meant that I did not recall any
differance in the blade design other than they being opposite direction
units. Of course I don't recall ever comparing them side by side as Don G
has so they may well have differances I hadn't noticed, either that or maybe
IVO altered their blade design over the years.
You can't use right and left hand blades interchangably, props are always
directional.
Sorry for the confusion,
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
> >Earl,
> >I have used two and three blade IVOs on my 503 Powered Loehle "Tractor
> >configuration" and they performed really well.
> >A friend had a belt drive on his Loehle so he had a right hand prop and
the
> >blades looked the same as mine.
> >Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Dribbling Bing Carburetors - Update |
Kolbers,
I have re-worked the Bing carburetor dribble bib to make it lighter and to
reduce the chance of anything being sucked into the engine. The latest
update can be seen on the bottom of:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly90.html
This is a long html with many photos, so it will take a while to load.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Native American Artist <cartoonface2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re; Homebuilt "Major" Changes |
Thanks for the info to send me in the right direction.
I don't have any experience in the homebuilt realm but I do know Feds and Insurance
companies are the bane if you ever have an incident and you made mods without
informing them.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vincenicely" <vincenicely(at)chartertn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Solo X-Country |
DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
Arron,
You said: >215lbs. I cruised my first leg at 63-65mph indicated at about
5100rpm. I thought the lower rpm would save some fuel even though it would
take longer >to get there. I was wrong. First and second leg were both right
over 50 miles (minimal wind). The second leg I cruised at 5800rpm showing
85mph indicated. I >burned less gas and arrived about 15 minutes faster.
Perhaps the explanation is that the Rotax 2-stroke engines have an
efficiency expressed as specific fuel consumption (pounds of fuel per horse
power hour) that changes significantly with RPM. The reasoning to fuel per
mile at different speeds is a little complicated because the drag of the
airplane and the efficiency of the propeller are dependent upon speed too.
Anyway, proceeding along the engine efficiency line of thought, according to
the table in my year 2000 CPS catalog, the 618 burns about .83 lb/(hp*hr) at
5000 RPM and about 0.75 lb/(hp*hr) at 5800 RPM. The most efficient speed
of the 618 appears from the graph to be 6600 RPM at about .69 lb/(hp*hr).
Vince
FireStar II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Phillips" <rphillip1999(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi guys,
The weather has put a stop to my fabric covering so now I'm working on a couple
other thingsin my basement that I would like to hear some ideas from anyone
who has already dealt with them.
I've made a cardboard templateof the instrument paneland drawn the instruments.
I like the idea of putting instrumentsin the existing panel(Mark III Classic)
and any switches that need to be reached in a seperate box in front of the seat
betweenmy legs. I'm having a problem fitting all the gauges I feel are neccesary
in the space. Any ideas? (note - not a fan of EIS)
My other winter project is solving the problem of needing a larger fuel tank.
I want a tankwith 16-18 gal. usable. Has anyone used onefrom a G. A. plane or
are they builtto heavy (weight) for this? How about custom made from Aircraft
Spruce, anyone had any experience with that?The last resort would be to design,
buy the material, find someone to weld (I've read about some bad experiences
there).
Any input would be appreciated.
Russ in chilly , snow covered southwestern NY
Still plugging away on Mark III Classic
Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: winter projects |
I know of at least 2 ways to go. 1st, extend the panel down as I did. Look
on my website under Building Vamoose/Instrument Panel. I can't reach it
very well when strapped in, so extended the radios out and angled them for
easy use in busy airspace. I live near the Los Angeles mess, and will be
flying in that environment at least some of the time. Another, probably
better, way to go is Dennis Kirby's method of moving the whole panel back
toward you and extending it down. This has the advantage of bringing
everthing - switches and all within reach, and allowed him to hinge the
panel to give easy access to the wiring if necessary. On mine, the radios
extend back too far for the hinge to work. I took some good pictures of
Dennis' panel, so will send them to you off List. Dennis is a real nice
fella, and I doubt if he'll mind me showing off his plane.
Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Phillips" <rphillip1999(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: winter projects
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> The weather has put a stop to my fabric covering so now I'm working on a
couple other thingsin my basement that I would like to hear some ideas from
anyone who has already dealt with them.
>
>
> I've made a cardboard templateof the instrument paneland drawn the
instruments. I like the idea of putting instrumentsin the existing
panel(Mark III Classic) and any switches that need to be reached in a
seperate box in front of the seat betweenmy legs. I'm having a problem
fitting all the gauges I feel are neccesary in the space. Any ideas? (note -
not a fan of EIS)
>
>
> My other winter project is solving the problem of needing a larger fuel
tank. I want a tankwith 16-18 gal. usable. Has anyone used onefrom a G. A.
plane or are they builtto heavy (weight) for this? How about custom made
from Aircraft Spruce, anyone had any experience with that?The last resort
would be to design, buy the material, find someone to weld (I've read about
some bad experiences there).
>
>
> Any input would be appreciated.
>
>
> Russ in chilly , snow covered southwestern NY
>
>
> Still plugging away on Mark III Classic
>
>
> Winterize your home with
tips from MSN House & Home.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Homebuilt "Major" Changes |
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Maybe need a Form 337? On cert. a/c whenever a major repair or change is
made, you hafta fill out a 337. Also try for a one-time STC if any change
affecting design, operation(?), etc Or quote an existing STC.....I think!
Bob N. too-old mech, also too cold
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: winter projects |
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Russ,
Coupla yrs ago there were thrds abt fuel tanks on FLY-UL. Ask Larry at
ldavis(at)indy.rr.com
He had a catalog I think
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propellor - Laser |
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Jerb,
Saw the ad more'n maybe a coupla yrs ago. Not Dennis, altho he may have a
clue.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joel Reed" <jfreed(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | heat treating gear legs |
Hello Kolbers,
I have wanted to make my own landing gear and I got some 4130 tubing and have
cut them to length and I wanted to sent them out to get heat treated and I
wanted to find out how much it would cost and it seems like its a enpensive process
to do the heat treating. I had called Braddock, in New Jersey and the plant
manager had gave me a quote of $125 and I thought that was a good deal and
send my tubing over to them but the employee who is doing my tubing said it
would exceed $500 to do my tubing. I thought that was too much so I thought I
would ask the list and find out if that is the normal or is there another place
that you know of that would do it for less.
Thanks
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fackler, Ken" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: winter projects (fuel tanks) |
>>needing a larger fuel tank
Kirk (Snuffy) Smith turned me on to the source at the URL below as a place
to get fuel tanks of various sizes that are very light in weight and will
work for the Kolb.
http://www.bugsandbuggies.com/
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Homebuilt "Major" Changes |
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Tom, guess I was thinking of cert. a/c....Said: " On cert. a/c whenever a
major repair or change is..." Of course you're correct on exps.
Then the experimentals that are/will be certified...
regards
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
Anything wrong with using the hardware store aluminum angle for making custom gas
tank and custom seat mounting brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I
have cut the neoprene pad into strips that came with my kit for covering the gas
tank trays and I am lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are
2 aluminum 8 gal tanks for my Xtra.
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
muffler
bn
________________________________________________________________________________
Vic
about the only place I can think of Vic is the exhaust ball connectors
between the muffler and the manifuld y- pipe
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/14/2003 10:57:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
donghe@one-eleven.net writes:
Vic
about the only place I can think of Vic is the exhaust ball connectors
between the muffler and the manifuld y- pipe
You use anti-sieze.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
Anything wrong with using the hardware store aluminum angle
for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting brackets? I don't plan
on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into strips that came with my kit
for covering the gas tank trays and I am lining the gas tank bracket angles
with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif" width="100%" vspace=9>
I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff is too
soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas tankbrackets. Also,
I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat them and at least prime
them before installing if you're in a corrosion-prone area. I would do it
anyway. But, then again I work in aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes
to this kind of stuff. Spend the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
Guy Morgan,
Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
I called Braddock to get a price quote on treating the gear legs for my Firestar
I and the said it would be approx. $132.50 for the pair.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
Kolbers, I am going to recover my cockpit and would like to install a ten gallon
tank at the same time. If you have some links to different options they would
be appreciated.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
Would heat treating for general mechanical parts (brackets) be
necessary. I think this is far over board for the application. Gee they
build Cessna's and Piper's - they just use the proper material size, alloy,
and temper, for the application. No special heat treating. I would not
use the commercial aluminum you purchase at the local hardware store for
any major structural part. It's too soft and easy to deform or tear out
when under forces. Your probably looking for 6061-T6 - they use a lot of
it on Van Aircraft kits for brackets and so forth. If they can hold
together doing aerobatics, I think it should be more than adequate for your
application. You can get aluminum from Aircraft Spruce by the foot -
or Shapiro Supply, links below.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mainpage.php
http://www.shapirosupply.com/
>
>
>Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
>
>
>Anything wrong with using the hardware store
>aluminum angle for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting
>brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into
>strips that came with my kit for covering the gas tank trays and I am
>lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal
>tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
>
>
>http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif" width="100%"
>vspace=9>
>
>
>I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff
>is too soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas
>tankbrackets. Also, I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat
>them and at least prime them before installing if you're in a
>corrosion-prone area. I would do it anyway. But, then again I work in
>aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes to this kind of stuff. Spend
>the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
>
>
>Guy Morgan,
>
>
>Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
>
>
> Wonder if the latest virus
> has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online
> computer scan now!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heat treating |
I just got my 4130 legs back from the Braddock plant in Anniston
Alabama. Total cost for the pair, including whatever electric
surcharge and shipping was $81. If you call Braddock, call the local
plant instead of the 800 number. The 800 number is their central
office, and it seemed they were less interested in small orders such as
this. If you call the Anniston office (local number), the plant
manager will probably remember me calling him just last Thursday to
politely complain that my gear came back a lot more bent than he
predicted (see my previous post). My tone was more to ask what could
be done about it rather than to whine, so I would certainly think he'd
be open to doing more, so long as you assure him you understand that
bending is expected.
Per Bob Bean's recommendation, I'm going to see if I can get the more
severe bend corrected by nudging it cold in a press. I'm hopeful this
will go well as I did the same with previous legs. Hate to say, but
I'm getting good at this. :) Due to bending from heat treatment, I
recommend you save some hole drilling somewhere to allow for adjustment
after getting the legs back. (Expect use of cobalt drill bit and some
serious umph to get thru heat treated 4130.)
-Ben Ransom
--- bryan green wrote:
>
> I called Braddock to get a price quote on treating the gear legs for
> my Firestar I and the said it would be approx. $132.50 for the pair.
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ace Hardware aircraft supply |
Wasn't the heat treating thread regarding landing gear ?? Sure is necessary
there. For non-critical parts, (see my web-page on Building Vamoose/Seats &
Fuel System) I used Ace aluminum angle for my seat mounts, and after 5 or 6
years of climbing in & out of it, and making vroom vroom noises, they show
no sign of de-formation. They're about the only thing on the whole plane
that isn't scratched, for alla that. :-) Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Ace Hardware aircraft supply
>
> Would heat treating for general mechanical parts (brackets) be
> necessary. I think this is far over board for the application. Gee they
> build Cessna's and Piper's - they just use the proper material size,
alloy,
> and temper, for the application. No special heat treating. I would not
> use the commercial aluminum you purchase at the local hardware store for
> any major structural part. It's too soft and easy to deform or tear out
> when under forces. Your probably looking for 6061-T6 - they use a lot of
> it on Van Aircraft kits for brackets and so forth. If they can hold
> together doing aerobatics, I think it should be more than adequate for
your
> application. You can get aluminum from Aircraft Spruce by the foot -
> or Shapiro Supply, links below.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mainpage.php
> http://www.shapirosupply.com/
>
> >
> >
> >Kolb-List message posted by: "Clay Stuart"
> >
> >
> >Anything wrong with using the hardware store
> >aluminum angle for making custom gas tank and custom seat mounting
> >brackets? I don't plan on painting them. I have cut the neoprene pad into
> >strips that came with my kit for covering the gas tank trays and I am
> >lining the gas tank bracket angles with it. My tanks are 2 aluminum 8 gal
> >tanks for my Xtra. Thanks, Clay Stuart
> >
> >
> >http://graphics.hotmail.com/greypixel.gif"
width="100%"
> >vspace=9>
> >
> >
> >I for one wouldn't do it. Get 2024-T3 aluminum. That hardware store stuff
> >is too soft, especially for structural components like seat and gas
> >tankbrackets. Also, I don't know what area you're from, but I would treat
> >them and at least prime them before installing if you're in a
> >corrosion-prone area. I would do it anyway. But, then again I work in
> >aviation and I'm pretty anal when it comes to this kind of stuff. Spend
> >the extra money and do it right for safety's sake.
> >
> >
> >Guy Morgan,
> >
> >
> >Galveston, TX wanna-be Kolber
> >
> >
> > Wonder if the latest
virus
> > has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online
> > computer scan now!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
I have more than once(!) had to straighten 30-36"mower blades that had
tried to uproot "hidden" pipes, stumps, and et ceteri. I take them out
to arpt maint shop and ease them back, cold, in 20T hyd press. Just bend
a little beyond the straightness you want, and they will usually end up
OK. Just take it easy.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
Try
http://www.ronco-plastics.com/
Use the search function to select the tank according to size (gal)
constraints. Someone's bound to complain that these are not
"aircraft" tanks but are made of the same HDPE material that TNK
supplies. Not exactly the cheapest, either, but if you need one in a
specific size where else you going to go?
>
> Kolbers, I am going to recover my cockpit and would like to install a
> ten gallon tank at the same time. If you have some links to different
> options they would be appreciated. Bryan Green Elgin SC Firestar I
> 19LBG 377 BRS
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> ====
>
>
>
>
J.Baker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
the ultrastar with the yellow/white tail,black fairing, converted to a center stick?,
reply off list thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
At 03:43 PM 12/15/2003, you wrote:
>
>Try
>
>http://www.ronco-plastics.com/
>
>Use the search function to select the tank according to size (gal)
>constraints. Someone's bound to complain that these are not
>"aircraft" tanks but are made of the same HDPE material that TNK
>supplies. Not exactly the cheapest, either, but if you need one in a
>specific size where else you going to go?
That's what I've got in mine. The "spin molded" tanks don't have any
seams and the fittings are spun-on at the factory. The walls are about 1/8 +
inch thick and plenty strong. The main attraction is that you can see you gas.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modfowdframe.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "IT'S ME, IT'S ME!!!" <terrymccurry(at)yahoo.com> |
Dear kolbers, I have decided to sell my Kolbra kit (kit#4) and move totally into
General Aviation! The kit is built up to the quickbuild stage and is waiting
for someone to start the covering!! Included is a new Rotax,electric start, blue
head 582 still in the box, split radiators, Ivo three bladed prop, the covering
kit from Aircraft Technical Support, O'Brien brakes, EIS instrument, air
speed inst.,. All you need is paint and time to finish...over 20k invested at
this point, Take all for $17,500 and you will be saving Kolbs quickbuild charge
of $3695!!!!!!! Please e-mail terrymccurry(at)yahoo.com or call 864-227-6332 (home),
864-9931112 (cell)
It may be a law, I don"t know!!!!
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | extended panel alternative? |
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
12/16/2003 12:08:50 PM
An alternative to extending the panel that you may wish to consider is
installing seat belts with an inertial lock. This should allow you to
still lean forward and reach the gauges on a standard (non-extended) panel.
Not sure what the additional cost for this would be. Any folks out there
with inertially locking seat belt installed?
regards,
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jack's Project |
Try pro-seal. They make it in several different grades, high temp..low adhesion...etc.
It's two part stuff and you mix it by weight. It's aviation grade stuff
and it's great. Lasts forever and pretty much bullet proof.
Guy Morgan
Galveston, TX
Richard Pike I never saw any silicone that didn't swell up
and go goofy from gasoline.
Hey Jack, I like the way your project is turning out... I'll have to check
it out myself later... But I don't like the JB weld. I think screws could be
slightly counter sunk ( or a safety wire ) and a high temp silicone could be
used to seal the area below.
Cell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
In don't have KIT two yet but I have sat in the Demo flyer,
My plan for the instrument panel is to mount it on the left side of the cage
over my legs on a swing arm that will allow it to pivot the panel up and
away for entry and exit.
The reason for this is I want all the switch's within arms reach. Why, welp
after breaking a gear leg on a bounced landing in a drifter I was unable to
hit the engine kill switch until we stopped sliding because my shoulder
strap's were tight and the dam panel was half a football field away! We were
lucky it didn't flip and no gas leaked but if it had, I was not able to hit
the mains and that's bad.
Now if you ever have flown a drifter it's like a breezy you are out front
and in the open with nothing on the left or right so you want nice tight
shoulder straps.
Anyway I plan a split panel with the right side being fix and the left side
moveable..
We will see but that's the plan
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flykol" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Ken,
I mounted my switches above me in the center in a small panel box from Radio
Shack. Works great - easy to reach and out of the way.
Jim
Mark III
Charlotte, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Panel
>
>
> In don't have KIT two yet but I have sat in the Demo flyer,
> My plan for the instrument panel is to mount it on the left side of the
cage
> over my legs on a swing arm that will allow it to pivot the panel up and
> away for entry and exit.
>
> The reason for this is I want all the switch's within arms reach. Why,
welp
> after breaking a gear leg on a bounced landing in a drifter I was unable
to
> hit the engine kill switch until we stopped sliding because my shoulder
> strap's were tight and the dam panel was half a football field away! We
were
> lucky it didn't flip and no gas leaked but if it had, I was not able to
hit
> the mains and that's bad.
>
> Now if you ever have flown a drifter it's like a breezy you are out front
> and in the open with nothing on the left or right so you want nice tight
> shoulder straps.
>
> Anyway I plan a split panel with the right side being fix and the left
side
> moveable..
>
> We will see but that's the plan
>
> Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extended panel alternative? |
When setting mine up, I used Saab car seat belts. I badly wanted to use the
inertial reels, but they weighed far too much. (6 or 8 lbs each) Now,
you've got me thinking again.................the ones I installed in my VW
Baja Bug are much lighter and more compact.
Hmmmmm.......................... Lar.
P.S. - I finally gave up and called today to tell the A&P to put Vamoose
back together, and I'll take it somewhere else. He interrupted me, and said
the landing gear is done, and ready for the heat treater. 'Bout bloody
time.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: extended panel alternative?
>
>
> An alternative to extending the panel that you may wish to consider is
> installing seat belts with an inertial lock. This should allow you to
> still lean forward and reach the gauges on a standard (non-extended)
panel.
> Not sure what the additional cost for this would be. Any folks out there
> with inertially locking seat belt installed?
>
> regards,
> Erich Weaver
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kolb List...HondaJet announcement |
Here ya go fellas...Just so you all can say ya heard it here first..(right
after the AP)
Associated Press
Honda completes initial flight tests of jet powered by its own engine
Tuesday December 16, 1:51 am ET
(AP) -- Honda Motor Co. completed test flights in the United States of an
experimental Honda aircraft powered by a jet engine developed by Honda, the
Japanese automaker said Tuesday.
The six-seater business jet called HondaJet, scheduled for 200 hours of
additional flight-tests, is the first outfitted with Honda's own engine, the
HF118, which has been tested on other manufacturers' aircraft.
The HondaJet is more fuel-efficient and roomier than conventional jets
because of the strategic way the engines are positioned on the wing. The jet
finished initial flight tests this month at Piedmont Triad Airport in North
Carolina, the Tokyo-based company said.
Honda, which carries out research in humanoid robots as well as aviation,
called the plane a "milestone" for the company.
"It is very rare for a single company to make both the engine and the body
of a jet," said company official Tetsuya Ikeda.
Both the jet and the engine are for research, and the company has no plans
to offer them as commercial products, Ikeda said.
Honda is carrying out feasibility studies to possibly sell a piston engine
it is developing for smaller passenger planes. The engine on the HondaJet is
a turbofan engine.
Japan's second-biggest automaker began research into compact business jets
in 1986, but it had been using other manufacturers' engines, Honda said.
Don Gherardini
Sales / Engineering dept.
American Honda Engines
Power Equipment Company
CortLand, Illinois
800-626-7326
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jack's Project |
In a message dated 12/16/03 9:56:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ronoy(at)shentel.net writes:
> Silicone, not silicon.Silicon won't mix with much of anything--sand has
> a lotta silicon.
>
> Bob N.
>
Grey One, you are sumpin else...always considered myself a good speller, but
never heard that one ...thanks
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bonsell" <ebonsell(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Friends,
I like the old steam gauges. If one goes bad while in the air, I still have the
rest.
Sincerely,
Ed Bonsell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Happy Centennial |
Hi all,
It's a big day for us airplane buffs, let alone for the rest of the
world. I stopped by my airport today -- at 10:30 even -- to see any of
those who might have their priorities set better than I have. (I'm
working instead of flying today). Just a few out there, still pretty
sleepy as usual.
I'm glad I have a homebuilt plane to taste just a bit of what the
Wright brothers felt, and I'm sure you all would probably agree.
A proud day for American Ingenuity!
-Ben
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolbra Update |
John,
Man thats a really good looking tank!
cept...is it gonna be able to be filled from a portable gas can with the
filler under the wing?...cant tell from here for sure...
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
Anyone want to read W&O's ltr covering the real happenings? They wrote
this to kill the mangled telegraph msgs. It's almost 900 words. Lemme
know and I'll either put on list, or send privately. Was in today's
paper: The Wright Brothers Tell Their Story.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
I'd like to read it. Vote 1 for "yes." Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Kolb Mk III - Vamoose N78LB
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: UL: What would Wilbur do?
>
> Anyone want to read W&O's ltr covering the real happenings? They wrote
> this to kill the mangled telegraph msgs. It's almost 900 words. Lemme
> know and I'll either put on list, or send privately. Was in today's
> paper: The Wright Brothers Tell Their Story.
>
> Bob N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
In a message dated 12/17/03 6:48:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ronoy(at)shentel.net writes:
>
> Anyone want to read W&O's ltr covering the real happenings? They wrote
> this to kill the mangled telegraph msgs. It's almost 900 words. Lemme
> know and I'll either put on list, or send privately. Was in today's
> paper: The Wright Brothers Tell Their Story.
>
> Bob N.
>
> I'd love to read it Grey B
George Randolph
Firestarr driver from The Villages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ronnie wehba" <rwehba(at)wtxs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
please send!!!!!! thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: UL: What would Wilbur do?
>
> Anyone want to read W&O's ltr covering the real happenings? They wrote
> this to kill the mangled telegraph msgs. It's almost 900 words. Lemme
> know and I'll either put on list, or send privately. Was in today's
> paper: The Wright Brothers Tell Their Story.
>
> Bob N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
Bob, Id like to see it also!
Send it to me when ya get a chance at
donghe@one-eleven.net
thx
Don Gherardini
FireFly 098
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UL: What would Wilbur do? |
I sure would like to read it Bob.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: UL: What would Wilbur do?
>
> Anyone want to read W&O's ltr covering the real happenings? They wrote
> .
>
> Bob N.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
December 01, 2003 - December 17, 2003
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-er