Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-fd
October 31, 2004 - November 27, 2004
if you have a very hi efficiency prop then the best climb will still be at the
best L/D speed but the climb rate will be higher lets say 1500 ft/min if you
fly faster or slower than best L/D speed your climb would be less than 1500 ft/min
the rate of climb in the two examples is different but the speed to achieve them
is the same.
now just a bit slower than the best rate of climb is the best angle of climb. at
the best angle of climb is used for clearing an obstacle at the end of the runway....
even though you are not climbing as fast as the best rate you are covering
the ground slower as well and the angle is steeper. again faster or slower
than the best angle of climb will give you a lesser angle of climb.
if I am not mistaking the best L/D speed of an aircraft does not change, but the
rate of climb certainly would with different props.
john w, you seem to have a good handle on this.... if I have not explained this
correctly or clearly please further my education, and I will take no offence.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pollus <pollus(at)fornerod.nl> |
| Subject: | Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watch out |
for?
Dear Kolbers,
I am considering to buy the one and (presumably) only Kolb MK3 in
Germany, from the man who built the plane some 10 years ago and got
it's type registration through German administration. Only for that the
man deserves a statue. Now this man is old and lost his medical, so
there I am looking at a plane without someone to test fly it for me.
I am whise enough not to try to fool around with the thing without a
proper instruction, but getting the CFI to travel half of germany to
look at the plane might double the acquisition costs. So I want to buy
it cheep and howl the plane to my field.
Thanks to the design, it's easy to look at the structure, cables and
all the push-pull rods. The only problem is: I don't know where to look
for. I have a bachelor in Physics but that nowhere gets me to the point
of being a flight mechanic. This day I taxied the kolb around, listened
at the engine (582) and even dared to hop some inches above the grass.
That felt good, but that is not yet flying...
So here is my question, for I think you Kolb-builders know things.
From experience.
From doing it yourself.
So please enlighten me: what are the weak spots that have to be checked?
Regards,
Pollus Fornerod
Enschede - the Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watch |
out for?
Pollus
Hopefully you will get more responses but generally there are no weak spots
on this airplane if it is built properly. There is one report of fatigue
cracking of the tail post above and below the fuselage tube on a high time
(2300 hrs. or was that 4300 hrs. +) airplane. There are always discussions
about the gear legs bending but they are fine when landed correctly. These
airplanes slow down faster than some new pilots are used to when landing and
they drop them in bending the gear legs. The only weak point might be the
582 but I don't like 2 stroke engines so you can take that comment as you
wish.
Depending on how much this airplane has been flown you could find that is in
almost new condition. These planes have a record of great strength. In fact
the former owner of the company went out and intentionally abused an older
model of the airplane in flight and was finally able to get a wing to fail.
He then parachuted down, located, and fixed the weak spot in the wing for
all future Kolbs. You will not go wrong with this airplane,
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "pollus" <pollus(at)fornerod.nl>
Subject: Kolb-List: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watch
out for?
>
> Dear Kolbers,
>
> I am considering to buy the one and (presumably) only Kolb MK3 in
> Germany, from the man who built the plane some 10 years ago and got
> it's type registration through German administration. Only for that the
> man deserves a statue. Now this man is old and lost his medical, so
> there I am looking at a plane without someone to test fly it for me.
>
> I am whise enough not to try to fool around with the thing without a
> proper instruction, but getting the CFI to travel half of germany to
> look at the plane might double the acquisition costs. So I want to buy
> it cheep and howl the plane to my field.
>
> Thanks to the design, it's easy to look at the structure, cables and
> all the push-pull rods. The only problem is: I don't know where to look
> for. I have a bachelor in Physics but that nowhere gets me to the point
> of being a flight mechanic. This day I taxied the kolb around, listened
> at the engine (582) and even dared to hop some inches above the grass.
> That felt good, but that is not yet flying...
>
> So here is my question, for I think you Kolb-builders know things.
> From experience.
> From doing it yourself.
>
> So please enlighten me: what are the weak spots that have to be checked?
> Regards,
>
> Pollus Fornerod
> Enschede - the Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best lift to drag speed. |
Boyd,
You are implicitly assuming that the prop has a constant efficiency for all speeds.
Unfortunately, especially for fixed-pitch props, they don't.
Their efficency varies significantly with speed - that's why a climb prop and a
cruise prop have such different performance characteristics.
Aircraft climb is essentially the power delivered by the prop minus the power required
by the aircraft. Both must be considered, not just the aircraft side of
the equation.
Regards,
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
----- Original Message -----
From: boyd young
To: David Paule ; Kolb-List Digest Server
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:18 AM
Subject: best lift to drag speed.
-------------------
if you change props with different efficiencies you will change the climb
rate
but not the best climb speed. the best lift to drag speed will remain
the
same wether going uphill with power or downhill in glide.
boyd
-----------------------
Boyd,
The speed that gives you the best rate of climb changes because the prop's
efficiency curve moves its peak efficiency to a higher or lower speed. That
means that the maximum excess power is at a different speed than it was
previously. Might not be much, but it's there if you look for it.
You'll also find that the best L/D speed changes with prop pitch and whether
the prop is turning or not. Again, it might not be much, but it's there.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
---------------------
dave
I don't think so but I could be proven wrong....... the best L/D ratio is the
speed in which there is the most lift for the least amount of drag.... going
faster or slower will cause the drag to increase causing more energy to be used
up in overcoming the drag, and less energy available for climb. or extending
the glide.
examples.
now if you have a prop with poor efficiency the best climb rate will be at the
best L/D speed. and the climb rate will be slow say for example 200 ft/min.
if you fly faster or slower than best L/D speed the climb rate will be less than
200 ft/min
if you have a very hi efficiency prop then the best climb will still be at the
best L/D speed but the climb rate will be higher lets say 1500 ft/min if you
fly faster or slower than best L/D speed your climb would be less than 1500
ft/min
the rate of climb in the two examples is different but the speed to achieve them
is the same.
now just a bit slower than the best rate of climb is the best angle of climb.
at the best angle of climb is used for clearing an obstacle at the end of the
runway.... even though you are not climbing as fast as the best rate you are
covering the ground slower as well and the angle is steeper. again faster or slower
than the best angle of climb will give you a lesser angle of climb.
if I am not mistaking the best L/D speed of an aircraft does not change, but
the rate of climb certainly would with different props.
john w, you seem to have a good handle on this.... if I have not explained this
correctly or clearly please further my education, and I will take no offence.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watch |
out
Pollus,
Welcome to the Kolb world. I had an early FireStar but it has been sold and I have
no first hand experience with the MkIII. However, I do have some experience
with the 582 in a Zenith 701. Although the 2-stroke engines are not as reliable
as the 4-stroke engines the 582 is one of the best of the Rotax 2-strokes.
Mine had the HAC(high altitude compensation) carb kit and oil injection which
made it very convenient. Unless you plan to fly a long way from home into the
mountains the HAC would not be much of a benefit to you in the lowlands.
The primary reason I'm responding to your inquiry though is that my wife and I
spent a year in your beautiful country, from July 1990 - June 1991 on an engineering
contract and traveled throughout your delightful country, including Enschede.
I lived in Amstelveen, a suburb of Amsterdam. It was a sad day when my
contract expired.
Goed geluk with your Kolb acquisition efforts.
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, New York
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles & Meredith Blackwell <wozani(at)optonline.net> |
Pollus,
You have made an excellent choice of an airplane. I fly a MKII, the earlier
version of the same design with 5 inch tubes instead of the stronger 6 inch
on the MKIII. It was easy for me to buy the plane because it belonged to my flight
instructor and he pointed out the weaknesses and strengths to me and luckily
he was an honest man. I will share some of that insight with you and what
I have gained from my ownership. Keep checking the Kolb-list because the builders
are very helpful and will have more information.
The steel parts can rust if not properly treated and maintained. Check the
hinge line for the ailerons and the elevators. The hinge can be replaced with
a minimum of effort and time if needed. Also the tail has an "H" shaped bracket
tying the tail boom to the rudder and the tail wheel. Some have found cracks
on the angle tube going to the tail wheel, but that is extremely rare and
a sign of a hard landing or interior rust through.
The steel of the cockpit cage can rust if not sealed when welded. It will
look like streaks of rust at the weld lines showing through the paint. If the
paint is cracked or spiderwebbed on the cage, then that can be a sign of bending
from rough treatment. Where the tailboom enters the cage in the rear, the
supports should all be straight and symettrical, no signs of bending and cracking.
While looking there, look at the tail boom, there should be no dents, especially
on the top where the propeller may have struck the boom during an accident.
All planes have slight dimples on the tail boom, but not hard creases
or more than a few millimeters deep spread out over a space the size of a few
fingers. The aluminum is fragile and dents during shipping and storage do occur.
All fabric planes like ours hate the sun and if stored outside you may have
fabric that needs replacing. The UV radiation breaks down the fabric. Some
flying clubs have a testing tool to check fabric strength. If you can't find
one then poke gently with your finger in the back near the propeller on the cage
fabric. With light pressure it should give a little but feel like a drum.
The paint should not flake off when you do this. Most older planes have rub
marks in the fabric where it gets handled or bumped in the hangar. They should
be limited, without large tears or spreading lines. This happens especially
where you get in and out of the plane, on the tail surfaces and the wing tips.
The propellor should not have cracks or holes in it. The engine should not
leak excessive oil or any coolant. Most two sroke engines leave a little bit
of oil from the exhaust on the plane, but not any real leaks or drips. The exhaust
system should have no cracks in it, the springs should be strong that hold
it together if they use that method. The exhaust gas temperature gauges should
be connected and you can check the factory book against the rpm, the EGT
and the cylinder head temperature figures during idle and warm up on the ground.
You can check the compression of the cylinders to see if they are worn and
need to be fixed. There should be minimal movement where the propeller connects
to the gearbox, no sloppiness.
You don't want rust where the tires connect to the landing gear legs. That
is a stressed part and should be strong. There should be tread left on the tires,
no threads showing through. Test the brakes.
The leading edge of the wing should be straight and true, no bending or warping
or sagging.
The BRS parachute has a time limit on when it needs to be repacked or the propellant
needs to be replaced. You can check the dates on the canister or soft
pack case.
If you find any faults, you can check on the price to fix them and see if it
is worth it. Because most of the plane is visible, you can do a check easily.
Try to get some time flying with an instructor in a Kolb MKIII before you fly
your own. Good luck with your new bird.
Charlie, MKII in NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ms. Dixie report |
Morning Kolbers,
Yesterday was an exciting day in the Kolbra shop! Ms. Dixie stood on her gear for
the first time.
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PA310011.JPG
Future Kolbra Pilot Charley makes first hanger flight.
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PA310007.JPG
I think he approved.
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PA310008.JPG
I wonder at this point if Travis gave me the correct tail boom. This thing looks
40 feet long!
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/photos/PA310009.JPG
Mark has finished the fuel cell and is making her radiator/oil tank mount and as
soon as it arrives
it's on to the floor panels and panel. This is really starting to get interesting!
Paul Petty
Building Ms. Dixie
Kolbra/912UL/Warp
www.c-gate.net/~ppetty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "boyd young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
"Kolb-List Digest Server"
| Subject: | Re: best lift to drag speed. |
0.07 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
Boyd,
You are implicitly assuming that the prop has a constant efficiency for all speeds.
Unfortunately, especially for fixed-pitch props, they don't.
Their efficency varies significantly with speed - that's why a climb prop and a
cruise prop have such different performance characteristics.
Aircraft climb is essentially the power delivered by the prop minus the power required
by the aircraft. Both must be considered, not just the aircraft side of
the equation.
Regards,
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
dave
ok I see what you are getting at..... but I think you need to take into consideration
2 graphs.
1. there is a graph for the climb rate over different speeds. at the best L/D speed
for the airplane, that graph will max out.
2. the graph for prop efficiencies plotted over the range of speeds that we fly.
and you could have a different graph for different props or pitches on the same
prop.
if you had a prop that has significantly better efficiency, faster or slower, than
the best L/D speed then you would have a point..... but I think that any prop
efficiency in the range of speed that we fly ( L/D speed + or - 20 ) do not
change significantly enough to overcome the additional drag induced by the faster
or slower speeds.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Jung <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watch |
out for?
Pollus and Group,
When I have evaluated a plane to buy, I considered two
things: the design and the workmanship.
Kolbs are all well designed, so that part is easy.
Workmanship is fairly easy, too. Get one that you are
satisfied with. I consider workmanship important with
other designs because it is an indication of how
thorough the builder was. Even and expert can see
everything and must rely to a large extent on
workmanship to evaluate a plane. After building my
Kolb, I decided that a builder would really have to
screw up to build an unsafe one.
Now that I've said that let me add one caution. If I
were you, I would avoid of any Kolb where the builder
made changes to the flight structure. Not that all
changes are bad, it's just that they would need an
expert to evaluate them.
John Jung
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
I know what David P. is talking about. Basically best glide speed is
the speed at which the airframe has the least TOTAL amount of drag.
What David is saying (I think) is that depending on prop/engine
configuration the best climb rate is not necessarily the same speed as
best glide speed (in defense of several earlier posts by myself and John
Williamson, we said "usually" is the same.)
Case in point, consider your typical VW powered speedster,
Sonex/Sonerai, etc. Climb is generated by excess thrust, not excess
lift, so best climb is at a speed somewhere between the lowest TOTAL
airframe drag speed and the speed at which the engine/prop make the most
thrust. In other words the speed where the engine/prop combination make
the most excess thrust over what is required to overcome that TOTAL
airframe drag. In the case of VW powered planes with short prop
diameters, they are terribly inefficient at converting torque to thrust
at low airspeeds, so if lowest TOTAL airframe drag is at 65 but the prop
doesn't really start to "hook up" till 85 then your best climb will
obviously be higher then the lowest drag speed (which will be Best Glide
speed)
NOW! If anyone is still awake I will again state that USUALLY Best glide
is pretty close to best climb on the airspeed indicator FOR TYPICAL
ULTRALIGHTS/CESSNA'S/PIPER'S/etc. Obvious exceptions being planes like
VW powered stuff with ridiculous short props, and most anything powered
with a jet of anykind. F15/F16/Su-37/etc. ;-)
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
Hey I'm going out to Las Vegas for a training seminar and have a weekend
free Dec 4-5 any "air activities I should see/ do"
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: best lift to drag speed. |
| There are only 2 speeds which the pilot should remember 1) the
speed which
| will keep him in the air for the longest TIME. and 2) The speed
which will
| keep him in the air for the longest DISTANCE.
|
| Cheers
|
| Pat
Hi Pat/All:
I think the most important speed is the speed that keeps one flying
and not stalling. Usually, in my case anyhow, I am too low to worry
about best glide distance and minimum rate of decent.
Our speed envelope is pretty small on our Kolbs, so I don't get
wrapped around the axle too much on either best glade or minimum rate
of decent. Usually, pretty busy trying to make the forced landing.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
"Kolb-List Digest Server"
| Subject: | Re: best lift to drag speed. |
0.07 FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS Outlook can't send HTML in this format
Okay students, please get out a piece of graph paper, a ruler, and a black, a blue,
and a red pencil, and we'll look at an imaginary airplane. Why not? Great
Hallow's Eve has passed and the air is still full of magic.
Let's assume that this magic airplane has two perfect power settings: full power
and idle power, and that it'll happily run all day at either of these.
Please pick up your black pencil. In the middle of the page, draw a horizontal
line across the page. Label this line "speed," and number it from 0 at the left
to 100 at the right. We'll call these speeds mph.
At the 0 mark on the line, draw a vertical line the full height of the page. Since
it's already labeled 0 at the crossing, mark it to 1,000 feet per minute at
the top of the page, and -1,000 feet per minute at the bottom.
Draw a vertical line at 32 mph. This is the stall speed.
Please pick up the red pencil for our idling motor, and make three dots at these
points:
a) Stall speed and -500 feet per minute,
b) 38 mph and -250 feet per minute,
c) 70 mph and -700 feet per minute.
Draw a parabola through these points.
Now kindly use the blue pencil, for the full-power case, and make three dots at
these points:
a) Stall speed and 250 feet per minute up,
b) 42 mph and 750 feet per minute up,
c) 70 mph and 0 feet per minute.
And draw a blue parabola through these.
Both parabolas should not hold water.
Next, get the black pencil again and draw these lines:
1. From the origin to a tangency with the blue parabola. That speed is Vx.
2. A vertical line through the maximum part of the blue parabola. That's the best
rate of climb speed, probably at 42 mph, and it's called Vy.
3. From the origin to the tangency of the red parabola. This speed is the best
L/D speed. The reciprocal of the slope of the line is the best L/D.
4. A vertical line through the highest point of the red parabola. This is the speed
for the minimum rate of sink, probably at 38 mph.
5. There's a final point worth noting - where the blue line crosses the speed axis,
that's the top speed.
Now, if you wish, you can draw another arc. This one - any yes, certainly, you
can use another color. In fact, I recommend it - is the rate of climb from the
blue line minus the rate of sink from the red line. This line is called the "excess
power available" curve. If your graph looks at all like mine, the shape
of this curve is a smooth parabola. Its peak value is at about 50 mph, for good
all-around performance. It's not centered on the L/D point.
Obviously all this varies for different weights, props, etc. A myriad of factors.
The thing is that our measurements are of a whole plane, not just the airframe.
It has a motor and a prop. And rate of climb is only due to the excess power
available. No excess power and you'd simply have a wide car.
Now, unfortunately, I must go off on an errand, so this lesson is ended for tonight.
Enjoy,
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
+++++
----- Original Message -----
From: boyd young
To: David Paule ; Kolb-List Digest Server
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: best lift to drag speed.
Boyd,
You are implicitly assuming that the prop has a constant efficiency for all speeds.
Unfortunately, especially for fixed-pitch props, they don't.
Their efficency varies significantly with speed - that's why a climb prop and
a cruise prop have such different performance characteristics.
Aircraft climb is essentially the power delivered by the prop minus the power
required by the aircraft. Both must be considered, not just the aircraft side
of the equation.
Regards,
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
dave
ok I see what you are getting at..... but I think you need to take into consideration
2 graphs.
1. there is a graph for the climb rate over different speeds. at the best L/D
speed for the airplane, that graph will max out.
2. the graph for prop efficiencies plotted over the range of speeds that we fly.
and you could have a different graph for different props or pitches on the
same prop.
if you had a prop that has significantly better efficiency, faster or slower,
than the best L/D speed then you would have a point..... but I think that any
prop efficiency in the range of speed that we fly ( L/D speed + or - 20 ) do
not change significantly enough to overcome the additional drag induced by the
faster or slower speeds.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> ground! |
| Subject: | Re: my Firestar's longest trip w/o leaving the |
ground!
Jon,
Sorry to hear of your recent experience. Want to sell it post it on
Barnstormer.com - they work on donations if you sell it. (I figure its
worth the amount it would cost to publish in the UL Flying magazine or our
local metro paper) - it will be snatched up quicker than you think. A good
plane at a fair price will not last long.
Got to admit your pretty brave taking a trip on condition of a sight unseen
purchase facing there is a high risk that the potential buyer could back
out and not have much to loose in the process. Did this happen this last
week - you know they had the Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring FL Thursday
through Sunday.
Repost the info regarding your plane to the Kolb site.
Here's a heads up of a scam some sellers have bit on. It goes down like
this. Someone contacts you wanting to purchase your plane. They then
propose that another party who owes them a sum being more than the purchase
price will send you a check. They ask that you cash the check, withhold
the amount due you and then forward the difference to them. Some cases
they get you to send the check, in others they pickup the plane and the
check. You soon learn that the check send to you is worthless. You will
not see your money nor the plane again.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Best climb... |
> > NOW! If anyone is still awake I will again state that USUALLY Best glide
> is pretty close to best climb on the airspeed indicator FOR TYPICAL
> ULTRALIGHTS/CESSNA'S/PIPER'S/etc.
You guys are getting a bit technical for me, but for what it is worth I did
some experimenting with my Firestar in the desert where landing was not a
problem. It was pretty simple and of course primitive, but my objective was
to see what speed would give me the longest distance. I climbed 3000 ft
above the ground and shut the motor off, kept the plane as close to 45 as I
could. I might mention the I was 6 miles by gps from camp. Noted how close
to camp I managed to land. Next I went to the same altitude and distance and
did it again this time at 55. There was no appreciable difference in
distance, I just got there sooner. Probably did something wrong??? Any way I
was a bit surprised and decided that I would just pick the best spot and
make sure that I either got there or picked another one that I could get to.
If I am not mistaken it is generally trying to stretch the glide that causes
the most serious problems. Besides all that stuff makes my brain hurt. Its
too old for all that exercise.
Larry, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tj brown <mrclean9588(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: my Firestar's longest trip w/o leaving the ground! |
Try putting your plane on www.ultralighthomepage.com
Its free and you can even put a free photo up. TJ
jerb , UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS(at).SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
Jon,
Sorry to hear of your recent experience. Want to sell it post it on
Barnstormer.com - they work on donations if you sell it. (I figure its
worth the amount it would cost to publish in the UL Flying magazine or our
local metro paper) - it will be snatched up quicker than you think. A good
plane at a fair price will not last long.
Got to admit your pretty brave taking a trip on condition of a sight unseen
purchase facing there is a high risk that the potential buyer could back
out and not have much to loose in the process. Did this happen this last
week - you know they had the Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring FL Thursday
through Sunday.
Repost the info regarding your plane to the Kolb site.
Here's a heads up of a scam some sellers have bit on. It goes down like
this. Someone contacts you wanting to purchase your plane. They then
propose that another party who owes them a sum being more than the purchase
price will send you a check. They ask that you cash the check, withhold
the amount due you and then forward the difference to them. Some cases
they get you to send the check, in others they pickup the plane and the
check. You soon learn that the check send to you is worthless. You will
not see your money nor the plane again.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Tire Kickers and other scum.... |
Hey Jon,
Boy , you got a good education on that one...Sounds familiar though...I
have come to the conclusion there are some sick puppies out there that get
extreme pleasure in making honest people cynical.....They just keep pleading
and sucking you in..
Before I deal with anybody when I am selling whatever , the first
one with cash or certified check ( confirmed at the bank) is the new owner. They
can leave a deposit , but if someone else shows up with the bucks , it is gone
and the deposit is refunded. Needless to say , I have never had anyone give
me a deposit...I have volunteered to deliver but now think that is a mistake....let
the new owner experience the "thrill " of getting a new plane home intact
!
Don't worry, sounds like a good machine and it will sell....
Cynical ED in Western NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: best lift to drag speed. |
John,
I've numbered your points below so that I can respond to them.
1. No, best L/D is faster than minimum rate of sink. Please draw the
parabolas I described and see.
2. It'll generally be close to that, but depends on the prop. In fact, with
the drag of an idling prop, the best L/D speed decreases over that of the
airplane with no prop - so in flight testing, the power condition is pretty
important.
3. It's based on the whole airplane and engine and prop combination. The two
major factors are overall drag and wingspan. In fact, knowing overall drag,
wingspan, engine and weight, you can make a good estimate of any airplane's
performance.
4. Oh, yeah! Absolutely. Full agreement here.
5. With a power plane, getting close to L/D is good. Not stalling is even
better. No need to worry about minimum sink speed unless you're soaring.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
FSII
=+=+=+=+=+=+
David,
I'm sorry but you seem to have lost sight of what has been said.
1. L/D max gives you minimum rate of descent when power is reduced.
2. L/D max gives you best rate of climb with power applied.
3. L/D max is based on the airfoil not on the engine/prop configuration.
4. L/D max is determined by flight testing and varies with several
variables.
5. Any speed above the stall speed is good, but the speed that gives you
L/D
max (minimum sink) is a good number to remember.
John Williamson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ul15rhb(at)juno.com" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
-- "Richard & Martha Neilsen" wrote:
I think we have pushed this discussion well past the record formally held by seefoam.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIc
Did I hear something about Seafoam?
Hey, in all seriousness, I had Seafoam soaking in the front cylinder of my 447
for 3 weeks because the weather has been terrible here on weekends. I got concerned
one night, 2 weeks ago, when the temps rose to the 70's during the day after
being at freezing during the evening hours. The outside of the engine was
sweating with the warmer air when the garage door was opened. I got concerned
whether the Seafoam would protect the cylinder as it gets filled up with the
stuff when I give it the treatment. If any water gets inside, the rings could
rust in place if the lube doesn't protect it.
Last Sunday, before starting, I moved the prop to check for any kind of resistance
and found none. I proceeded to start the engine and blow out the Seafoam.
It blew the usual white smoke for 5 minutes. Now both cylinders are whistle clean
as I previously did the rear cylinder 5 weeks ago.
Ralph
Original Firestar
(Mr Seafoam)
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vann Covington" <vann_covington(at)ncsu.edu> |
Love that Seafoam! Let's talk about it!
----- Original Message -----
From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: seafoam?
>
>
> -- "Richard & Martha Neilsen" wrote:
> I think we have pushed this discussion well past the record formally held
> by seefoam.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIc
>
>
> Did I hear something about Seafoam?
>
> Hey, in all seriousness, I had Seafoam soaking in the front cylinder of my
> 447 for 3 weeks because the weather has been terrible here on weekends. I
> got concerned one night, 2 weeks ago, when the temps rose to the 70's
> during the day after being at freezing during the evening hours. The
> outside of the engine was sweating with the warmer air when the garage
> door was opened. I got concerned whether the Seafoam would protect the
> cylinder as it gets filled up with the stuff when I give it the treatment.
> If any water gets inside, the rings could rust in place if the lube
> doesn't protect it.
>
> Last Sunday, before starting, I moved the prop to check for any kind of
> resistance and found none. I proceeded to start the engine and blow out
> the Seafoam. It blew the usual white smoke for 5 minutes. Now both
> cylinders are whistle clean as I previously did the rear cylinder 5 weeks
> ago.
>
> Ralph
> Original Firestar
> (Mr Seafoam)
>
> Now includes pop-up blocker!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | my Firestar's longest trip w/o leaving the ground |
"I have a unique story of woe and intrigue that I would like to share with
you...
providing a potential lesson in one of the dangers of Kolb ownership, or
more
accurately -- just some light entertainment. The story just ended its
journey
this last weekend. So here goes"
I think that the poor fellow suffers from bipolar disease
(maniac-depressive) with an overlaid buyer's remorse. Sorry about your
experience. No good deed goes unpunished.
Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
David Paule wrote: << Okay students, please get out a piece of graph paper
... >>
David -
Excellent tutorial! Thanks for sharing, in very basic and understandable
terms, how to compute Vy, Vx, and best L/D for my specific airplane. This
came at just the right time for me, as I'm just in that mode in my
flight-test phase where I'm trying to compute those flight speeds for my
Mark-3.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, Verner-powered
New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pollus <pollus(at)fornerod.nl> |
| Subject: | Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Dear Kolbers,
Still thinking about buying an used Kolb MK3 and enjoying your
replies. Some praise the plane, some woe the day they bought it.
Thanks, keep them coming!
Now I need some practical information. I wonder how long, or far, I can
fly without refueling.
So can anybody give me a hint? What is your average fuel consumption on
a Rotax 582 equipped Kolb MK3, and at which cruise speed? Your milage
may vary depending on height, load etc, but I'd like to get an idea.
To avoid the discussion about which motor is better: In Germany the
Rotax 582 is is the only engine approved for this plane...
Regards,
Pollus Fornerod
Enschede, The Netherlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to watchout |
for?
Hi Pollus,
Our MkIII Xtra 582 at 65Kt burns approx 17 litres per hour.
Kiwi
----- Original Message -----
From: "pollus" <pollus(at)fornerod.nl>
Subject: Kolb-List: Considering to buy second hand Kolb MK3: Where to
watchout for?
>
> Dear Kolbers,
>
> I am considering to buy the one and (presumably) only Kolb MK3 in
> Germany, from the man who built the plane some 10 years ago and got
> it's type registration through German administration. Only for that the
> man deserves a statue. Now this man is old and lost his medical, so
> there I am looking at a plane without someone to test fly it for me.
>
> I am whise enough not to try to fool around with the thing without a
> proper instruction, but getting the CFI to travel half of germany to
> look at the plane might double the acquisition costs. So I want to buy
> it cheep and howl the plane to my field.
>
> Thanks to the design, it's easy to look at the structure, cables and
> all the push-pull rods. The only problem is: I don't know where to look
> for. I have a bachelor in Physics but that nowhere gets me to the point
> of being a flight mechanic. This day I taxied the kolb around, listened
> at the engine (582) and even dared to hop some inches above the grass.
> That felt good, but that is not yet flying...
>
> So here is my question, for I think you Kolb-builders know things.
> From experience.
> From doing it yourself.
>
> So please enlighten me: what are the weak spots that have to be checked?
> Regards,
>
> Pollus Fornerod
> Enschede - the Netherlands
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
> Hi all.
> Good News!
> Fingers crossed
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
Must be just like Christmas as a kid. Enjoy!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax 912ULS Break-in procedure |
We have searched through the materials sent by TNK with our engine & find no
mention of a break-in procedure; is there one??
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS Break-in procedure |
| We have searched through the materials sent by TNK with our engine
& find no
| mention of a break-in procedure; is there one??
|
| Howard Shackleford
Hi Howard/Gang:
The way I understand it is:
1. No breakin procedure.
2. Start out using semi-synthetic or full synthetic engine oil.
Worked for me.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS Break-in procedure |
Hi Howard,
There is no particular breakin needed with the 912, just avoid full power
settings for prolonged periods for the first couple of hours.
Full power is o.k but for short periods.
Kiwi
Xtra/Jabiru
--- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912ULS Break-in procedure
>
> | We have searched through the materials sent by TNK with our engine
> & find no
> | mention of a break-in procedure; is there one??
> |
> | Howard Shackleford
>
> Hi Howard/Gang:
>
> The way I understand it is:
>
> 1. No breakin procedure.
>
> 2. Start out using semi-synthetic or full synthetic engine oil.
>
> Worked for me.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Pollus and gang, with interest lately on carring more fuel, you may want
to check out www.speedwaymotors.com and look at their street rod fuel cells.
I mounted a 16 gal. tank in for $85 bucks. You put the fill fitting where you
want it along with the vent and outlet. My outlet is centered on the bottom.
The tanks also have 1" grooves around them to put straps on.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 912uls break-in procedure |
| From: | Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com |
11/04/2004 11:52:47 AM
I would only add that I believe the first oil change should come much
sooner than subsequent changes, which can go as long as 100 hrs depending
upon the fuel and oil you are using. Cant remember exactly what was
recommended for first time - maybe 25 hrs? Check the manuals or call Kerry
at Lockwood. Also make sure to download all the relevant updates in the
form of Service Bulletins, Service Letters etc from the Rotax Owners
Association website. The list of recommended oils for the engine is much
more limited than it used to be.
I think you will like that engine. Mine has been good to me.
regards
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cat36Fly(at)aol.com |
I see a lot of discussion about fuel consumption on here lately and I wonder
how the aircraft are being flown and with what style of prop. I am a couple of
months from launching a MK III X with a 582 and would like some input on prop
preferences. I will go with a 3 blade but know nothing of the good, bad or
ugly for each manufacturer. I would like your input.
I am guesstimating 4 - 4.5 GPH at cruise. So with the 10 gal arrangement I
can get hrs with reserve. Seem like a good starting point?
Thanks
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for 582 |
| I am guesstimating 4 - 4.5 GPH at cruise. So with the 10 gal
arrangement I
| can get hrs with reserve. Seem like a good starting point?
|
| Thanks
| Larry
Hi Larry/Gang:
I do not know about the MKIIIx, but have flown a couple hundred hours,
most cross country, in my MKIIIc in 1993, powered by a 582, and pushed
by a GSC 3 bld wooden prop, and also a Warp Drive 3 bld carbon fiber
prop. Fuel burn at 5,800 rpm cruise was 5.0 to 5.5 gph with both
props.
For my purposes, there is only one way to determine what my airplane
engine combo is going to burn. That is flying a cross country flight
for a hour or two at a determined cruise rpm. This seems to give me
to best indication of what my fuel burn is.
Flying around the patch, for me, always gives a much more economical
fuel burn. This info does not give a pilot good cross country flight
planning information.
I have been flying Warp Drive 3 bld carbon fiber, fast taper with
nickel steel leading edges, since Sep 1993, on my MKIIIc. That
equates to well over 2,000 hours experience. During that time have
flown three times to Alaska, in addition to numerous other cross
country flights all over the lower 48 and Canada. I have had perfect
service from the props and from the manufacturer. I find Warp Drive
props reliable, tough, and dependable. They get me out there and back
home. Wish all the components of my airplane were as reliable.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Props for 582 |
Recently got a chance to compare 2 blade vs 3 blade props on my MKIII.
Same brand, same day, same rpms.
The 3 blade is quieter for the folks on the ground but noisier in the cockpit.
The 2 blade is noisier for the folks on the ground but quieter in the cockpit.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>I see a lot of discussion about fuel consumption on here lately and I wonder
>how the aircraft are being flown and with what style of prop. I am a
>couple of
>months from launching a MK III X with a 582 and would like some input on prop
>preferences. I will go with a 3 blade but know nothing of the good, bad or
>ugly for each manufacturer. I would like your input.
>
>I am guesstimating 4 - 4.5 GPH at cruise. So with the 10 gal arrangement I
>can get hrs with reserve. Seem like a good starting point?
>
>Thanks
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cat36Fly(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Props for 582 |
John:
Thanks for the quick reply. I agree that some cross country time is needed to
get a true feel for endurance and I am looking for a starting point. Kolb
contends the Xtra is a bit sleeker than the classic so I am optimistic. If Your
props have carried you to Alaska and back without a problem I am impressed. I
have been to Barrow (in my Cardinal) and know there are stretches up there
where you do not want to be looking for prop parts.
Ever try the variable pitch props I see advertised?
Larry
PS How did you carry enough fuel to make some of those legs (Ft. Nelson -
White Horse) and beyond?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | w/o leaving the ground |
You guys should try this - it's better than "terra server".
At least try the free "trail version".
The "tilt 3 -D mode"is impressive.
But I'm easily impressed, I'm told.
Dot not archive
------------------------
--> GET A SATELLITE VIEW OF YOUR HOUSE
Google purchased the company Keyhole (http://www.keyhole.com) this
past week.You can zoom in from satellite views and virtually take
a magic carpet ride through streets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Any suggestions welcome though..>>
Hi Pollus,
if you take up my suggestion of a flying holiday with Mike Moulai in the UK
I know that he is aware of various methods of increasing the tanks. Some are
probably best not talked about too publicly but they are workable.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Hi Pat/All:
| You fly with a 582 I think. Your 5 US gallons per hour equates to
nearly 19
| litres per hour. Flying my Eurostar I was getting 11 lph at 100 mph
with 2
| up with a 912.
Initially powered with 582, 5.0 to 5.5 gph, 5,800 rpm, 80 mph;
repowered 912, 1994, 4 gph at 5,000 rpm, 85 mph; repowered 912ULS,
2000, 5,000 rpm, 88 mph, 5.0 gph.
| I am fitting a Jabiru which in a similar a/c should produce about
the same.
The few Jabiru's that have flown on Kolb aircraft performed only
marginally. However, folks still buy and mount them.
| In the Kolb which is a fairly draggy configuration and a wing
section that
| has never been updated I do not expect either that speed or that
consumption
| but I shall be disappointed if I do not get a cruise speed around 80
mph and
| a fuel burn of about 13 litres (about 3.5 US Galls)
You will probably get the performance you have indicated above.
However, take off and climb performance will be inadequate for most of
us spoiled Kolb pilots that are comfortable with the favorable t/o and
climb performance delivered by Rotax engines. I am not trying to sell
Rotax. If there was an alternative that would perform equal to or
better than the 912/912ULS for a better price, it would be mounted on
my MKIII.
|This must be getting close to the planes range exceeding the pilots.
The range of my airplane far exceeds the pilot's. However, can not
have too much fuel.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Patrick, the kolb was not designed for speed. >>
Hi Robert,
neither were most of its contemporaries. It is a product of its time and
none the worse for that, but the ultralight, like everything else has moved
on.
Personally I like something a little different and the Kolb is certainly
that. No doubt that is why I built a Challenger. There were no other pusher
designs and certainly nothing with that performance in the UK at that time.
Now I could choose any of half a dozen a/c with 100 mph performance, the
Jabiru with 130, the Banbi with even more, but I dont think that is what
ultralight flying is all about. We are a long way from the cheap, low and
slow, philosophy we started out with but no one would now buy a Quicksilver
any more than they would buy a Model T Ford. Expectations have moved on.
The trouble is that with the exception of the Kolb all the other designs are
basically the same. They all look alike and perform in a similar manner.
I am going for the Kolb because it is different and the price I pay,
willingly, is that it will not cruise at 100 mph . I expect however to
cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an engine which
will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not consume enormous
quantities of fuel while doing it.
That 20 mph drop in cruise speed is what I am willing to trade for being
different. Vive la difference!
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
| From: | "Robert Laird" <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
>We are a long way from the cheap, low and =0D=0A>slow, philosophy we started out
with but no one would now buy a Quicksilver =0D=0A>any more than they would
buy a Model T Ford. Expectations have moved on.=0D=0A=0D=0A Pat --=0D=0A=0D=0A
I'm sure there are more than a handful of people over on the Quicksilver list
who would disagree with you.=A0 There's a fellow named Mark Smith who seems
to always be tweaking and adjusting and improving the Quicksilver design.=A0 He's
not trying to make it faster, but simply better in certain "quality" ways.=A0
The Quicksilver I started out with was flimsy and slow, but it was a ton-o-fun!=A0
The Firestar, at about the same street price, is a far better aircraft
and fun in its own way, but then it was ahead of its time when it first came
out.=A0 I would like to think that someone presented with the option of a Quicksilver
or a Firestar would 100% of the time choose the Kolb, I guess that doesn't=A0
happen since Quicksilvers do a brisk business (mostly after-market, though).=0D=0A=0D=0A>I
am going for the Kolb because it is different and the price
I pay, =0D=0A>willingly, is that it will not cruise at 100 mph . I expect
however to =0D=0A>cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an
engine which =0D=0A>will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not
consume enormous =0D=0A>quantities of fuel while doing it.=0D=0A=0D=0A That's
definitely not an ultralight! =A0 Obviously, I say that in fun... but I do
think that any aircraft that has a Vne of over 65mph is most probably not an
ultralight in any sense.=A0 Call them Sport Planes, Light Sport Aircraft, but
not ultralights.=A0 Even many of the UK microlights exceed the envelope that would
keep them -- in my mind -- ultralights.=0D=0A=0D=0A But, this is all about
fun, isn't it?=A0 So, to each their own...=A0 =0D=0A=0D=0A -- Robert=0D=0A=0D=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
> I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar project.
> Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real handy?
>
>
Gene,
The number is: 1-877-877-3334
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Clayton <jspc78(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Eugene/All,
http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/
1-877-877-3334
-Jim
Jim Clayton
California
Mark-3X, 912ULS.....Building
www.quantumwrench.com/Kolb.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf
Of Eugene
Zimmerman
Subject: Kolb-List: Fabric?
I'm ready to order covering materials my Firestar
project.
Anybody have the phone number for the Miller's real
handy?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
no one would now buy a Quicksilverany more than they would buy a Model T
Ford. Expectations have moved onPat I'm sure there are more than a handful
of people over on the Quicksilver list>>
Hi,
I just knew I would get into trouble with that remark. Sorry any Quicksilver
lovers out there.
I agree, they were fun. I solo`d on one and thought it the bees knees but
aspirations HAVE changed. Once it was enough to get airborne and wallow
around the cow pasture at 35 mph.If the engine ran that long. Now we expect
to do long cross countries without mortgaging our entire holiday. We no
longer expect engines to stop. They sometimes still do of course but its
fairly unusual.
In theory everyone hankers for the `good ole days` but they still go out and
buy the best bang for the buck.
In the good ole days` we couldn`t get off the ground with the equipment
which we now consider essential. Thats evolution, man!
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
| I am fitting a Jabiru which in my mind equates with a 912 so.....we
shall
| see.
| Pat
Good Morning Pat/Gang:
I must be very careful. I have just gotten up and am now starting on
my first cup of coffee. Extremely dangerous commenting in this
condition.
You probably need to do some more research on Jabiru's and Kolbs.
They do not equate to the 912, primarily because they are direct drive
and the 912 uses a gear reduction drive. An expert in the field of
Kolbras and Subaru's is John Williamson. Perhaps he will share with
you his experience flying that combo. I personally have flown many
cross country hours with John W and his Jabiru powered Kolbra.
Compared to the 912 powered MKIII there was no comparison except in
cruise speed. The Kobra, by the way, is a much cleaner aircraft than
the MKIIIc and the MKIIIx. I can attest to that, again from personal
experience. Flying with John W over the Rocky Mountains this year,
John's Kolbra was powered with the 912ULS. This time John's Kolbra
ate my old 912ULS powered MKIIIc up in take off, climb, and cruise.
Flying Kolbs is not necessarily what one thinks, but what it does.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Too many seem to feel that every one with aspirations to fly in something they
have built with their own hands, have $20,000 - $35,000 to plunk down for the
pleasure and privilege. Not so. !! There is still a place out there for the beginner
to get started in a low priced ultralight; yes, the simple bare bones tube
and rag covering. Many who have built and flown ultralights since the beginning,
just for fun, still can't afford the 100hp. $10,000 engines some of you
richer folks buy and trade at the drop of a hat. More power to you if you have
that kind of money. Most of the beginners don't. Most scrape and save to get
started with a 25-40 hp. 2 cycle, and are just as thrilled and excited when it
gets them into the air at a mighty 25-55 m.p.h., as some of you feel when your
100hp rockets you into the air for your thousand mile trips. I think some of
you are forgetting your own humble beginnings, and the thrill and satisfaction
knowing you can putter around not too far from hom
e on
1-1/2 gals. of fuel and don't care whether you are 1 mile or 25 miles from home.
You are in the air flying with something you built with your hands. That's
the ultimate thrill. I've built and flown 7 homebuilts, and after many, many
years, am now content with my 35 hp. Cuyuna and the 1984 UltraStar. I had my fun
earlier with a variety of "store boughts", including my retractable gear Mooney,
with coast to coast flights, but the restrictions of retirement (and old
age) make me content with the "obsolete" 35 h.p. UltraStar. The bottom line is
this. There is and always will be a market and place for the beginner ( and
the guy who lives on a "WalMarket" salary), and his affordable true ultralight.
Don't knock 'em.
LADD"
no one would now buy a Quicksilverany more than they would buy a Model T
Ford. Expectations have moved onPat I'm sure there are more than a handful
of people over on the Quicksilver list>>
Hi,
I just knew I would get into trouble with that remark. Sorry any Quicksilver
lovers out there.
I agree, they were fun. I solo`d on one and thought it the bees knees but
aspirations HAVE changed. Once it was enough to get airborne and wallow
around the cow pasture at 35 mph.If the engine ran that long. Now we expect
to do long cross countries without mortgaging our entire holiday. We no
longer expect engines to stop. They sometimes still do of course but its
fairly unusual.
In theory everyone hankers for the `good ole days` but they still go out and
buy the best bang for the buck.
In the good ole days` we couldn`t get off the ground with the equipment
which we now consider essential. Thats evolution, man!
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "boyd young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
"David Paule"
Now, if you wish, you can draw another arc. This one - any yes, certainly, you
can use another color. In fact, I recommend it - is the rate of climb from the
blue line minus the rate of sink from the red line. This line is called the "excess
power available" curve. If your graph looks at all like mine, the shape
of this curve is a smooth parabola. Its peak value is at about 50 mph, for good
all-around performance. It's not centered on the L/D point.
sorry i have been away for a few days.......
yes i have drawn your graph..... my curves may not be exact but i get the idea....
in your paragraph above i rest my point of view. at a speed well above
the ( best l/d or best rate of climb vy ) is a point of excess power i
have not a problem with that. my point is the best rate of climb is still at
best L/D the prop efficiencies difference at L/d verses point of excess power
did not move the best rate of climb from L/D to point of excess power. the
amount of efficency diference curve of the two speeds did not overcome the extra
drag curve.
using your example of L/D of 42 lets say the prop efficenciey was 25% and
at point of excess power 50 the prop efficency was 100%. the prop efficency
curve would overcome the drag and the best rate of climb would move upwards
with the difference in the prop efficency...... but in reality the prop efficency
difference between 42 and 50 is only going to be a few percentage points
and not enough to overcome the extra drag. thus the best L/D stays the same.
maybe i have not totaly grasped what you are trying to get accross and if so i
am sorry. and if i have not been totaly clear again i am sorry that i have not
been able to verbilize my thoughts clearly.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't knock 'em |
| Every time I fly, I feel so fortunate that the FAA "got it right"
when they brought out
| AC103-7. No pilot certificate, N number, annual or various hour
inspections, etc.
| required. It does not get much better than this. All one has to do
is be responsible,
| and to watch that your ultra light vehicle does not "creep up" into
the realm of the
| undocumented experimental.
|
| You hit a nerve.
|
| Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Gang:
I agree with you whole heartedly. Those are the same feelings I have.
I could not believe I was flying, 20 years ago, in my own home built
airplane with no one looking over my shoulder and no one to report to,
or ask permission from. It was entirely freedom of flight.
My airplanes and power plants have changed a lot since the days of my
Ultrastar, but my attitude toward UL and Lt Plane aviation has not.
One of the contributing factors for flying the cross country flights
that I do is to show the rest of the world that we are competent
pilots and fly litttle airplanes that can do just as much and
sometimes more than their high priced "real" airplanes.
When the time comes to revert to smaller, slower airplanes because of
a problem passing Class III medical, if I still have the desire to
fly, it will be right back to where I started my civilian aviation.
Nothing better than to be able to go over to the farm, push out the
Ultrastar or Firestar or MKIIIc, and take off of that little grass
strip. We are fortunate, indeed, to have the liberties we have to
build and fly our airplanes.
Thanks again, Jack,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fabric? ------ my Firestar is for sale |
Gene;
It's guys like you that make guys like
me keep following the list.
Someday I hope to own one like yours.
Good luck with the sale.
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
USUA #30899
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 912 engine trouble |
Greetings,
It sounds like you've verified everything but spark. You may not be getting
high voltage to that plug. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the
912 ignition system to suggest a troubleshooting method.
Good luck,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Aviation regressing |
Ray,
I agree completely ...aircraft have been a circle for me, too. Started
with low and slow and kept inching up speed and horsepower . When I started ,ultralights
did not exist. But I think I found what I was originally looking for
in the true ultralights ...My modified Ultrastar with the Cuyuna is perfect
for my use, although I just picked up a wrecked 86 Cgs Hawk with a Cuyuna that
seized causing the wreck.....Rebuilding it for my Marine son ,now in Iraq outside
Fallujah....Is he safer there than flying a Cuyuna here?........lets take
a poll !
ED in Western NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don't knock 'em |
In a message dated 11/7/2004 6:27:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
Hi Jack
Being a Limey I am not familiar with that. Does that mean that you do not
have to be tested to get a pilots license or just that AC103-7 defines an
ultralight?
In either case I can only say `Lucky You`. We just do not have that room for
manouvre. In the early days we were totally unregulated but after a series
of crashes and a few fatalities, all rather much at the same time so that it
seemed from the newspapers that we were dying like flies, authority stepped
in.
Things could have been made much worse, but as it was we were allowed to set
up a self regulating body to administer the sport and a specification was
threshed out defining an ultralight. Mainly a weight and wing loading and
stalling speed. The object being to stop `lead sleds` being developed which
the decidedly amateur pilots could not handle. A limited pilots license was
introduced which entitled you to fly ultralights only. No regulations were
introduced about where ,how fast, how high you could fly. Ultra were treated
exactly as any other aircraft .
Over the years the spec. about what constitutes an ultralight has changed
and as we have integrated more with Europe the accepted weight has crept up
until it is now 480kilo including 2/90 kilo pilots and fuel. With 2/90 kilo
pilots plus a bit of gear there sometimes is not much weight left for fuel.
!!!!!!
Geeez PJ, at 2.2 lbs per kilo that means you can only have a plane that
weighs 218 lbs....is that right??!! I thought you guys were up in the 300's
somewhere for your "microlights"! And I was always feeling sorry for us at 254
Lbs + around 26 more for a parachute. I know we have an obesity epidemic over
here but you guys aren't THAT skinny are you? And what does 2/90 kilo pilot
and fuel mean?
now I gotta practice my Abiyoyo by pete Seeger
yer bud
George Randolph
Firestar driver from the villages, fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re:water in fuel system after rain. |
List,
It has rained a lot the last 3 weeks in this area (No Calif) and I have my
MKIII/912 still tied up outside.
My problems is that somehow water collects into the fuel system after a
rainstorm has passed through the area.
The tanks have sealed caps with remote vents but were not topped off when it
rained.The fuel pick-up is about 1/2" above tank bottoms.
No sign of water was found in the tank bottoms during preflight.
After about a half hour in flight the 912 engine began to lose several
hundred RPM for a second or so and this continued every few minutes just
like it did
last week.
When I got back home I found again several CC's of water in both carb bowls
right up to the level were the fuel jet projects into the bowl.
After cleaning out the bowls continued flying did not cause further
problems.
I use premium autogas and ALWAYS use a Mr funnel and never find water in the
funnel after filling the tanks.
I visually check the tanks through the fill hole and empty the carb bowls
and they look clean (meaning no water present) during preflight.
I do not have a drain valve installed.
The second time this happened I had also flushed the fuel lines by running
the booster pump without the bowls installed.
Somehow water collects in the fuel not visible to the eye and slowly
collects in the carb bowls untill the level gets high enough to get ingested
a little at a time causing the drops in rpm.
I intend to install a fuel drain during this winter's lay-up but has
anybody else seen this behavior?
Anything I have overlooked?
In 870 hrs and thirteen years of flying this plane I have never experienced
this as normally the plane goes into the garage for the winter
before big rainstorms hit the area.
Frank Reynen MKIIIc/912/full Lotus floats.
www.webcom.com/reynen/mkiii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re:water in fuel system after rain. |
Frank Reynen wrote:
>
>List,
>It has rained a lot the last 3 weeks in this area (No Calif) and I have my
>MKIII/912 still tied up outside.
>My problems is that somehow water collects into the fuel system after a
>rainstorm has passed through the area.
>The tanks have sealed caps with remote vents but were not topped off when it
>rained.The fuel pick-up is about 1/2" above tank bottoms.
>No sign of water was found in the tank bottoms during preflight.
>After about a half hour in flight the 912 engine began to lose several
>hundred RPM for a second or so and this continued every few minutes just
>like it did
>last week.
>When I got back home I found again several CC's of water in both carb bowls
>right up to the level were the fuel jet projects into the bowl.
>After cleaning out the bowls continued flying did not cause further
>problems.
>
>I use premium autogas and ALWAYS use a Mr funnel and never find water in the
>funnel after filling the tanks.
>I visually check the tanks through the fill hole and empty the carb bowls
>and they look clean (meaning no water present) during preflight.
>I do not have a drain valve installed.
>The second time this happened I had also flushed the fuel lines by running
>the booster pump without the bowls installed.
>Somehow water collects in the fuel not visible to the eye and slowly
>collects in the carb bowls untill the level gets high enough to get ingested
> a little at a time causing the drops in rpm.
>I intend to install a fuel drain during this winter's lay-up but has
>anybody else seen this behavior?
>Anything I have overlooked?
>In 870 hrs and thirteen years of flying this plane I have never experienced
>this as normally the plane goes into the garage for the winter
>before big rainstorms hit the area.
>
>Frank Reynen MKIIIc/912/full Lotus floats.
>
>www.webcom.com/reynen/mkiii
>
Gasohol can hide water content in fuel (alcohol absorbs the water).
Do you check your fuel for alcohol content?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re:water in fuel system after rain. |
Hi Frank/Kolbers,
To have this happen is entirely normal. The water is forming after the
airplane is hangared. The three
elements working to induce water are the temperature change, high humidity, and
partially-filled tanks. Condensation
forms in the tanks from the temp/humidity changes. The best preventive is to keep
the tanks filled, as even the normal
day/night temperature variations can cause condensation. On small aircraft, after
I sump the drains I also shake each
wing if the craft hasn't been flown for a week or so. Many production aircraft
have baffles in the tanks that act as
water reservoirs, the shaking at least redistributes some of the trapped water
and resuspends it in the gas.
Most prudent thing is to fill the tank when hangaring, which allows very
little condensation to occur.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Reynen" <frank_reynen(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re:water in fuel system after rain.
> My problems is that somehow water collects into the fuel system after a
> rainstorm has passed through the area.
> The tanks have sealed caps with remote vents but were not topped off when it
> rained.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
For those on a budget:
A couple of weeks ago, I saw my 1st Legal Eagle ultralite. Scratch built
with a 1/2 VW, the builder said it cost something like $3-4K to build.
The engine sounded like a miniature Harley at idle, & an underworked
riding lawn mower at full throttle. Effortless looking liftoff in about
150` (heading across the ramp toward the runway) & almost floating
around the airport. Word from builders is they fly about like a Piper
Cub (an ok flying plane for its day).
If I weren't in the middle of building an RV-7, I'd start one tomorrow.
Charlie
ray anderson wrote:
>
>Too many seem to feel that every one with aspirations to fly in something they
have built with their own hands, have $20,000 - $35,000 to plunk down for the
pleasure and privilege. Not so. !! There is still a place out there for the beginner
to get started in a low priced ultralight; yes, the simple bare bones
tube and rag covering. Many who have built and flown ultralights since the beginning,
just for fun, still can't afford the 100hp. $10,000 engines some of you
richer folks buy and trade at the drop of a hat. More power to you if you have
that kind of money. Most of the beginners don't. Most scrape and save to get
started with a 25-40 hp. 2 cycle, and are just as thrilled and excited when
it gets them into the air at a mighty 25-55 m.p.h., as some of you feel when your
100hp rockets you into the air for your thousand mile trips. I think some
of you are forgetting your own humble beginnings, and the thrill and satisfaction
knowing you can putter around not too far from hom
> e on
> 1-1/2 gals. of fuel and don't care whether you are 1 mile or 25 miles from home.
You are in the air flying with something you built with your hands. That's
the ultimate thrill. I've built and flown 7 homebuilts, and after many, many
years, am now content with my 35 hp. Cuyuna and the 1984 UltraStar. I had my
fun earlier with a variety of "store boughts", including my retractable gear Mooney,
with coast to coast flights, but the restrictions of retirement (and old
age) make me content with the "obsolete" 35 h.p. UltraStar. The bottom line
is this. There is and always will be a market and place for the beginner ( and
the guy who lives on a "WalMarket" salary), and his affordable true ultralight.
Don't knock 'em.
>
"PATRICK LADD"
>
>
>no one would now buy a Quicksilverany more than they would buy a Model T
>Ford. Expectations have moved onPat I'm sure there are more than a handful
>of people over on the Quicksilver list>>
>
>Hi,
>I just knew I would get into trouble with that remark. Sorry any Quicksilver
>lovers out there.
>I agree, they were fun. I solo`d on one and thought it the bees knees but
>aspirations HAVE changed. Once it was enough to get airborne and wallow
>around the cow pasture at 35 mph.If the engine ran that long. Now we expect
>to do long cross countries without mortgaging our entire holiday. We no
>longer expect engines to stop. They sometimes still do of course but its
>fairly unusual.
>In theory everyone hankers for the `good ole days` but they still go out and
>buy the best bang for the buck.
>In the good ole days` we couldn`t get off the ground with the equipment
>which we now consider essential. Thats evolution, man!
>
>Cheers
>
>Pat
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't knock 'em |
GeoR38(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 11/7/2004 6:27:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
>
>Hi Jack
>Being a Limey I am not familiar with that. Does that mean that you do not
>have to be tested to get a pilots license or just that AC103-7 defines an
>ultralight?
>
>In either case I can only say `Lucky You`. We just do not have that room for
>manouvre. In the early days we were totally unregulated but after a series
>of crashes and a few fatalities, all rather much at the same time so that it
>seemed from the newspapers that we were dying like flies, authority stepped
>in.
>Things could have been made much worse, but as it was we were allowed to set
>up a self regulating body to administer the sport and a specification was
>threshed out defining an ultralight. Mainly a weight and wing loading and
>stalling speed. The object being to stop `lead sleds` being developed which
>the decidedly amateur pilots could not handle. A limited pilots license was
>introduced which entitled you to fly ultralights only. No regulations were
>introduced about where ,how fast, how high you could fly. Ultra were treated
>exactly as any other aircraft .
>Over the years the spec. about what constitutes an ultralight has changed
>and as we have integrated more with Europe the accepted weight has crept up
>until it is now 480kilo including 2/90 kilo pilots and fuel. With 2/90 kilo
>pilots plus a bit of gear there sometimes is not much weight left for fuel.
>!!!!!!
>
>
>Geeez PJ, at 2.2 lbs per kilo that means you can only have a plane that
>weighs 218 lbs....is that right??!! I thought you guys were up in the 300's
>somewhere for your "microlights"! And I was always feeling sorry for us at 254
>Lbs + around 26 more for a parachute. I know we have an obesity epidemic over
>here but you guys aren't THAT skinny are you? And what does 2/90 kilo pilot
>and fuel mean?
>
>now I gotta practice my Abiyoyo by pete Seeger
>
>yer bud
>George Randolph
>Firestar driver from the villages, fl
>
I read that as 480 kilo gross weight, -180 kilo for pilots, leaving 300
kilo for empty weight & fuel. That's 660 lbs for plane & fuel in US numbers.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tomsplane(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Resevoir oil depletion |
Hi Guys,
Just got back on the list after vacations all summer. I flew to a fly-in in
Reserve La. and on the return flight over large lakes and marsh land, my red
low oil light came on. After I landed I found my tail feathers coated in oil
and my fuel oil reservoir almost empty. While checking my fuel and oil lines,
I noticed the small oil tank that lubricates something, was over full and
leaking thru the vent hole in the cap.
Has anyone experienced this problem? I have about 200 hrs. on the Rotax 582
. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tom Guidroz 259TG Mark III
Houma La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Resevoir oil depletion |
| Has anyone experienced this problem? I have about 200 hrs. on the
Rotax 582
| . Any suggestions would be appreciated.
|
| Tom Guidroz 259TG Mark III
Hi Tom/Gang:
Welcome back.
Yes, had a similar experience at Oshkosh 1993. Brand new, probably
100 hrs, on 582. Coolant was being pumped back out the rotary valve
reservoir (the little oil tank). There is a seal or a couple seals
between water pump impeller and rotary valve pump. Both systems share
the same shaft. If that seal goes, coolant will be forced into the
rotary valve oil system and out the little tank.
As for the loss of oil from the Fuel/Oil tank, I don't know.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pollus <pollus(at)fornerod.nl> |
| Subject: | Dimensions Kolb MK3 ? |
Dear Kolbers,
I am preparing to trailer the Kolb MK3 to my home airport, and now I am
in the process of selecting the right means of transportation. A large
trailer, a small truck...
So, does anyone have a sort of drawing with the right dimensions of the
(folded) kolb?
I presume the width is determined by the wheels, the height by the 3
blade prop (or, is it easily detachable?)
The locations of the wheels are of intrest: maybe I can let the nose
stick out, the wheels must be inside the trailer.
Any help apriciated! (And yes, stupid me, I did not take some
measurements when I visited the plane 2 weeks ago...)
Regards,
Pollus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
Just wanted to share a beautiful flight that I had yesterday. Weather was
great, sun, warm, winds 180* at 10. I decided to take my MK3 C. up to 10,000 ft.
The highest I had been before was around 5000 ft. After putting on an extra
layer of clothes and leather jacket, I was off at 12:10. I held sort of a
cruise climb of around 300 fpm., keeping my 618 around 6000 rpm and 55mph. Passing
through a few bumps between 5-7000 ft., above 8000 ft. it was like you were
not even moving and smooth as glass. My VSI held 0 at 9600 ft. so I came up to
6200 rpm brought the nose up to climb and at about 45 mph I was seeing 50 fpm.
Not wanting to go full throttle just to achieve my goal, I lowered the nose
until I saw 60 mph and then came back to 45 to gain another 100 ft. I did this
a few times and finally reached 10,000 ft..AGL. Each time I lowered the nose
to 60 mph it would start to decend. Not sure if I was seeing the ceiling
limit for my plane or possibly in sink at that point ? I relaxed at that point,
congratulated myself for accomplishing my mission, and banked over to take
some photos of the Catskill Mts. and the airport below. Glad I had the extra
clothes on as it was 23*. Checked my watch, 12:40.(30 min. climb). Keeping a
little power in so as to not cool the engine to much, I started my decent out of
10,000, 700 - 1000 fpm. down. What a beautiful flight and experience. I
would suggest to anyone on the list who hasn't experienced this, that if they
have ever thought of trying it, to go ahead and go for it . If you do, let us
know what you thought of your flight and tell us how it went. OK lets start an
exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there? I know the 2 Johns
have! Anyone else ?
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
PS. I didn't send this in to brag, I just wanted to share my experience of
accomplishing something I have wanted to do and it was FUN !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kfackler" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude goal |
>>> exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there?
I have done it, but not in my Kolb. It was quite a few years ago, in my last
ultralight, the Starflight XC-280, which was a true "open" ultralight. With
the help of some thermals, I managed to get it to 11,000. This was over
Cedar Hill, TX. It was fascinating to watch the Southwest Airlines jets
going into Love Field -underneath- me. There was also some interesting
psychological effects during the time when you start to lose visual ground
reference and are forced to start "flying the horizon." Those flying wires
sure did look small for a while there! The highest I've had my Mark II is
7500 so far. I enjoy a High Flight on occasion, but in the area where I fly
now one has to be -very- careful about traffic, because there are SIX
significant ops within a fairly small circle here, DTW, PTK, FNT, MTC, DET,
and Windsor.
So, when do I get my membership card? ;-)
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Guy Morgan" <morganguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Howdy Kolbers,
I haven't been there in my Firefly yet, but I've been there in many helicopters
doing power checks. Talk about your pucker factor. It's not much fun being that
high up in a rotor-winged aircraft. The auto rotation descent is kinda cool,
though. Like riding a cushion of air.
Guy Morgan,
Galveston, TX Firefly
. OK lets start an exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there? I know
the 2 Johns have! Anyone else ? Fly Safe Bob Griffin PS. I didn't send this
in to brag, I just wanted to share my experience of accomplishing something
I have wanted to do and it was FUN !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude goal |
I did it a few years ago in the MKIII, it was a warm summer day, late
afternoon, dead calm, and I had the half-doors on. Took off and headed west
toward a quiet general aviation airport. When I got there, I was at 10,000
feet, it was about 50 degrees out and smooth as glass the whole way. Since
I was over an airport, I tuned in unicom to monitor for other traffic, and
to avoid any issue with over cooling the engine, I just turned it off,
glided the whole way down.
Super experience. With the cockpit mostly open, slow flight just above
stall was very quiet, speeding up and doing wing overs was a gas, and the
whole thing was great.
Had all the airspace to myself, and when I got down to pattern altitude,
you could even listen for other traffic audibly, not just on unicom. Landed
deadstick, coasted off at a taxiway, cranked it up and went home. And you
are so right, it was really fun.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Just wanted to share a beautiful flight that I had yesterday. Weather was
>great, sun, warm, winds 180* at 10. I decided to take my MK3 C. up to
>10,000 ft.
> I
>would suggest to anyone on the list who hasn't experienced this, that if they
>have ever thought of trying it, to go ahead and go for it . If you do,
>let us
>know what you thought of your flight and tell us how it went. OK lets
>start an
>exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there? I know the 2 Johns
>have! Anyone else ?
>
>Fly Safe
>Bob Griffin
>PS. I didn't send this in to brag, I just wanted to share my experience of
>accomplishing something I have wanted to do and it was FUN !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
Ye think that's fun you alt to try it in a Hang glider, Dam it's cold and
every thing looks so small and there is absolutely no sensation of moving,
other than the sound of the air going by.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Morgan [mailto:morganguy(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Altitude goal
Howdy Kolbers,
I haven't been there in my Firefly yet, but I've been there in many
helicopters doing power checks. Talk about your pucker factor. It's not much
fun being that high up in a rotor-winged aircraft. The auto rotation descent
is kinda cool, though. Like riding a cushion of air.
Guy Morgan,
Galveston, TX Firefly
. OK lets start an exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there?
I know the 2 Johns have! Anyone else ? Fly Safe Bob Griffin PS. I didn't
send this in to brag, I just wanted to share my experience of accomplishing
something I have wanted to do and it was FUN !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Group
Complaining about the stiff ailerons was a bit premature. I found that
my first flights were made without aileron gap seals. So--I drug out the
book binding tape and had at it yesterday morning. Got in about 7
tenths of an hour with several touch and go's. Much more better!! Still
stiff but much more manageable. About like my Zmax now!
Anyone know how to calibrate an airspeed using a water manometer? I
have the basic info but cannot find a calibration chart. Herb in Ky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gap seals and airspeed calibration |
| From: | herbgh(at)juno.com.d84d3869b5691c59e8e8cc49a58db8491df93949b82c0915d58155e5788c85b1d5210075fcbd6d2ca99528dca95c18d9a9dcddb8bd00998d49 |
Group
answered my own question!
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/articles/KP89JUL.pdf
>
>
> Group
>
> Complaining about the stiff ailerons was a bit premature. I found
> that
> my first flights were made without aileron gap seals. So--I drug
> out the
> book binding tape and had at it yesterday morning. Got in about 7
> tenths of an hour with several touch and go's. Much more better!!
> Still
> stiff but much more manageable. About like my Zmax now!
>
> Anyone know how to calibrate an airspeed using a water manometer?
> I
> have the basic info but cannot find a calibration chart. Herb in
> Ky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude goal |
Yep done 11 200 feet in our 582 powered Xtra earlier this year, a superb
view made even better.
Kiwi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Altitude goal
>
> I did it a few years ago in the MKIII, it was a warm summer day, late
> afternoon, dead calm, and I had the half-doors on. Took off and headed
> west
> toward a quiet general aviation airport. When I got there, I was at 10,000
> feet, it was about 50 degrees out and smooth as glass the whole way. Since
> I was over an airport, I tuned in unicom to monitor for other traffic, and
> to avoid any issue with over cooling the engine, I just turned it off,
> glided the whole way down.
>
> Super experience. With the cockpit mostly open, slow flight just above
> stall was very quiet, speeding up and doing wing overs was a gas, and the
> whole thing was great.
>
> Had all the airspace to myself, and when I got down to pattern altitude,
> you could even listen for other traffic audibly, not just on unicom.
> Landed
> deadstick, coasted off at a taxiway, cranked it up and went home. And you
> are so right, it was really fun.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>>
>>Just wanted to share a beautiful flight that I had yesterday. Weather was
>>great, sun, warm, winds 180* at 10. I decided to take my MK3 C. up to
>>10,000 ft.
>
>
>
>> I
>>would suggest to anyone on the list who hasn't experienced this, that if
>>they
>>have ever thought of trying it, to go ahead and go for it . If you do,
>>let us
>>know what you thought of your flight and tell us how it went. OK lets
>>start an
>>exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there? I know the 2
>>Johns
>>have! Anyone else ?
>>
>>Fly Safe
>>Bob Griffin
>>PS. I didn't send this in to brag, I just wanted to share my experience of
>>accomplishing something I have wanted to do and it was FUN !!!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582? |
Hi all,
Re Xtra/Jabiru, I have choose this pairing as in the U/K we have some very
stringent airworthiness regulations and weight limits.
The NEW Jabiru is a much better unit than the older ones.
If we could possibly fit a 912 and stay within the max weight of 891 lb we
would, also we would have to invest lots of extra cash to conduct a full
spin test schedule and that is just not possibe, so if we are to stay within
the definition of a microlight at the moment we have to be committed to
getting the jab to work well. Plus it looks better and costs much less than
a 912.
If the builder wants, they can register the Xtra as a Group A aircraft which
is the same catagory as a Cessna 150.
In this group the max weight is allowed at 1000 lb and we would not be
required to conduct spin testing therefor a 912 could be fitted.
Kiwi
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel consumption of a MK3 with Rotax 582?
>
> Patrick, the kolb was not designed for speed. >>
>
> Hi Robert,
> neither were most of its contemporaries. It is a product of its time and
> none the worse for that, but the ultralight, like everything else has
> moved
> on.
> Personally I like something a little different and the Kolb is certainly
> that. No doubt that is why I built a Challenger. There were no other
> pusher
> designs and certainly nothing with that performance in the UK at that
> time.
> Now I could choose any of half a dozen a/c with 100 mph performance, the
> Jabiru with 130, the Banbi with even more, but I dont think that is what
> ultralight flying is all about. We are a long way from the cheap, low and
> slow, philosophy we started out with but no one would now buy a
> Quicksilver
> any more than they would buy a Model T Ford. Expectations have moved on.
> The trouble is that with the exception of the Kolb all the other designs
> are
> basically the same. They all look alike and perform in a similar manner.
> I am going for the Kolb because it is different and the price I pay,
> willingly, is that it will not cruise at 100 mph . I expect however to
> cruise around 80 mph in a comfortable, economic a/c with an engine which
> will start on demand and run until I switch it off and not consume
> enormous
> quantities of fuel while doing it.
>
> That 20 mph drop in cruise speed is what I am willing to trade for being
> different. Vive la difference!
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Parker" <parker910(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Worth sharing |
Subject: Worth sharing
Might better read this ..
In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a
laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not
funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson
asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks
on Sept 11).
Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said
"I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've
been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and
to get out of our lives.
And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How
can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave
us alone?"
In light of recent events..terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I
think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found
recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible says
thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself.
And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage
their self- esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should
know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they
don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers,
their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out.
I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the
world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question
what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e- mail and they spread like wildfire
but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice
about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through
cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on
your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL
think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other
people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no
one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back
and complain about what bad shape the world is in!!
FRIENDS!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
It's been a few years ago but I made 13,000 in my Kolb Mark
IIIc/912. It didn't seem to take that long as I remember
and it was still climbing. I might just go out and try it
again, just for kicks.
GH
Houston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
OK guys. From all the replies to my flight to 10,000 ft. it sounds like I
started something. I'll keep a list of pilots who have achieved this and will
come up with certificates for them. But "come on guys" this is a Kolb List. You
need to do it flying your Kolb! It is 10,000ft AGL. which must be reached. So
far I have: Kiwi, Richard P., & Dave Pelletier.
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Swartz" <tswartz(at)hydrosoft.net> |
Ok,
I had my MK III 912 up to 12,500 and it was still climbing at 300 fpm. I had
my wife along and she was so inspired she painted this painting.
http://juliaswartz.com/Giclee_Pages/Above%20the%20Clouds.htm
We saw a big passenger jet not far away at the same flight level headed
toward Philadelphia. I have pictures somewhere and I will post them if I
find them.
Terry Swartz
www.juliaswartz.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Airgriff2(at)aol.com
Subject: Kolb-List: 10,000 ft. club
OK guys. From all the replies to my flight to 10,000 ft. it sounds like I
started something. I'll keep a list of pilots who have achieved this and
will
come up with certificates for them. But "come on guys" this is a Kolb List.
You
need to do it flying your Kolb! It is 10,000ft AGL. which must be reached.
So
far I have: Kiwi, Richard P., & Dave Pelletier.
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Timandjan(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
In a message dated 11/8/04 6:25:25 PM, Airgriff2(at)aol.com writes:
>
> OK guys. From all the replies to my flight to 10,000 ft. it sounds like I
> started something.=A0 I'll keep a list of pilots who have achieved this and
> will
> come up with certificates for them. But "come on guys" this is a Kolb List.
> You
> need to do it flying your Kolb!=A0 It is 10,000ft AGL. which must be reached.
> So
> far I have: Kiwi, Richard P., & Dave Pelletier.
> Fly safe
> Bob Griffin
>
>
I took my Firestar2 up to 10,700 last year, what a trip.
Thanks
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tomsplane(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Coolant in the rotary valve reservois 582 |
Yes, had a similar experience at Oshkosh 1993. Brand new, probably
100 hrs, on 582. Coolant was being pumped back out the rotary valve
reservoir (the little oil tank). There is a seal or a couple seals
between water pump impeller and rotary valve pump. Both systems share
the same shaft. If that seal goes, coolant will be forced into the
rotary valve oil system and out the little tank.
Hi Guys,
Thanks to John Hauck,He knows his stuff. I checked with a Rotax dealer and
he is sending me the seal and gasket to remedy my problem. Thanks John.
Tom G. MKIII 259TG
Do not
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Using "EIS" on 912ULS?? |
If anyone is using this setup, I have a couple of questions.
1. How do you connect the red & white CHT wires to the [2] existing CHT
senders on the engine? Does the red wire go to engine ground & the white to
the sender?
2. There are two tach. leads on the engine. Do I ground one & run the
other to the EIS?
Yeah, I know- call Grand Rapids Tech., but if I don't find out tonight I
won't get any sleep.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | VW Engine Mount and Stuff |
I have my old VW engine mount, Diehl accessory case, and an old four pipe exhaust
system that I would like to get some money out of or at least have people use
to try a VW on their airplanes. The old VW engine mount adapts the VW to the
stock Kolb engine mount. Note! you need to use the Diehl accessory case with
this adapter. This mount is fine for a direct drive VW but when used with a reduction
drive it moves the thrust line up from the standard Rotax thrust line
by 6 inches. In normal flight it isn't a problem but on takeoff where you may
see close to 600lbs of thrust it is. I had to limit the total pilot/passenger
weight to 350lbs to be able to rotate. I also noticed that one of the rubber
vibration dampers was starting to separate after 200 hours of use so one would
need to change them every so often. If someone wants to hang up to a 84" prop
on a redrive VW for super thrust this would be just the ticket.
The Diehl accessory case is used to mount a alternator, starter in the 6 o'clock
position, magneto if you choose to use one, remote oil filter, and any thing
else you choose to bolt to it. Note! If you want to mount a starter you will
need a 6 volt style flywheel. I also cut all the mounting ears off the case to
reduce the weight.
The exhaust is a four pipe unequal length system with no mufflers.
I have my new engine mount welded and the engine is mounted to test out major systems
fit. I have sent photos with a diagram to the Kolb share. In a day or so
I will weigh the engine package and let you know. There is no going back so
I will not need the old engine mount and stuff.
I have gotten long winded but I wanted to describe what is available. I'm looking
for suggestions. I want other people to try VWs on their Kolbs. Maybe I could
get a deposit for this stuff and a bunch of people could try a VW on their
airplanes using it. Borrow your buddies dune buggy motor, put a reduction drive
on it and a few other parts and try it? Once you try it you can put most of
the $14,000 you might have spent on that 4 stroke Rotax back in your pocket and
buy a VW. For the cost a Rotax gasket set or a 2 stroke rebuild you can put
a VW on your Kolb (Kolbra, MKIIIc or x). You will like the VW on your airplane.
If there isn't any interest I will put it on E-bay and get what I can. Let me
know what you think.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using "EIS" on 912ULS?? |
In a message dated 11/8/2004 10:14:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gde01(at)bellsouth.net writes:
The red and white cht wires run all the way to the EIS.
Yeah, but on OTHER end of the red & white wires, where do they go? I know
how to hook them up if using the ring under a spark plug, but what to do with
the "existing CHT probe" on cylinders 2 & 3.? There is only one place to
connect a wire on each probe.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
Here is an update on members so far for the "10,000 ft. club":
Kiwi 11,200
Richard Pike 10,000
Dave Pelletier 10,200
G Haley 13,000
Terry Swartz 12,500
Tim 10,700
Tom Guidros 14,200
Richard Swiderski 11,600
Hav'nt heard from John Hauck or John Williamson.
Also John Jung went to 17,000 MSL-- need to here from him to verify altitude
(AGL)
Anyone else who achieves this goal can post on the list or contact me direct
at airgriff2(at)aol.com
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 UL engine problem, the answer |
| John H. has always said to keep 'em rev'd they love it but I did
not know that idling was all that bad.
|
| Living and learning,
|
| Duane the plane Tallahassee, FL, Mk3c/912, 18 Hrs
Morning Duane/Gang:
I know what you mean about living and learning.
I have always used 5,000 rpm as normal cruise rpm for the 912 and
912ULS. I have also flown the engines for extended periods at WOT,
when climbing to clear terrain. I was taught in 912 School the
engines are designed to operate at 5,500 rpm maximum continuous
without hurting the engines. I have tested this and believe it.
Over the last 10 years and 2,045.0 hours I have discovered a few
things about the 912/912ULS engines:
1. Like most other engines, they like to operate at warm temps, at
least 180F CHT, and 190F engine oil temp. Cylinder head temp is
important to help vaporize and burn the fuel efficiently. I
discovered this 10 years ago during the flight to Alaska. As soon as
I got up north in cooler temps the engine started telling me it was
running lean. I pulled the plugs and they were telling me I was
running rich, black sooty, just the opposite of what I thought they
would look like. Reducing power from 5,000 rpm cruise to set up for
landing, the engine would stumble and try to shake itself out of the
mounts. After I got back to Alabama and had time and a place to
experiment, I discovered it did not like to operate at low CHT. I
know the book says anything below whatever max CHT is for the 912 now,
and do not say anything about minimum other than 120F before going
full throttle. Because the 912 series engines do not have a
thermostat on coolant or engine oil I use "gaffer's tape" to tape up a
part of the coolant radiator to bring CHT and oil temps above 180F and
190F respectively. If I don't get the CHT up and keep it up, the
spark plugs can not do their job of burning off contaminants and
staying clean.
2. Yes, I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my 912ULS, as well as all the
other internal combustion engines I operate, gas, diesel, two stroke
and all. On the 2001 flight to Alaska I used Alcor TCP to help
scavenge lead out of the engine while operating on a steady diet of
100LL. It worked, but was expensive, hazardous, and inconvenient to
use. On the 2004 flight to Alaska I used Marvel Mystery Oil and no
Alcor TCP. Guess what? The MMO worked as well as the TCP, maybe
better. Plus, it was easy to obtain, as close as the nearest
Wal*Mart. I use it as prescribed, plus double up on it every once in
a while to give it a good dose. :-)
3. Other than frequent oil and fil changes, and I still use Fram
Tough Guard TG3614 oil filters, spark plug changes at prescribed
times, and air filter maintenance, I run Hell out of the 912ULS, as I
did the 912. Great engines! Worth every penny of what they cost for
the reliability, peace of mind, and performance.
Take care,
john h
MKIIIc - 2,055.9 hours
912ULS - 910.0 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Operating The 912 Series Engines |
Duane/Gang:
Forgot to mention something about the 912.
1. I prop for 5,400 static. That gives me 5,300 climb and 5,500 WOT
straight and level. The rpm drops from 5,400 to 5,300 shortly after
the aircraft starts rolling on takeoff.
2. 5,000 seems to be the sweet spot for my MKIIIc and the 912 and the
912ULS. Easy to keep temps in normal operating range. However,
anything under 5,000 and eng oil and CHT drop off rapidly, especially
the 912. The 912ULS generates a lot more heat than the 912.
3. I use Valvoline Duralube Semi-Synthetic 5W40 when operating on
100LL, to suspend the lead in the engine.
4. I use Shell Rotella Full Synthetic 5W40 when operating on auto
fuel. Less than $13.00 a gal at Wal*Mart.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
| Hav'nt heard from John Hauck or John Williamson.
| Also John Jung went to 17,000 MSL-- need to here from him to verify
altitude
| (AGL)
| Bob Griffin
Hi Bob/Gang:
Two years ago I climbed to 14,500 to cross the Sierra Nevadas from
Mono Lake to Pine Mountain Lake, CA. Was less than 1,000 feet about
the terrain. Several years prior to that I had climbed to 13,500 feet
over Illinois, returning from OSH. That flight was aprx 13,000 feet
AGL.
Flights above 10,000 feet have become routine after flying the Rockies
for the last two years. These high altitude flights were done with
full fuel, 150 lbs, and full gear (GW aprx 1,100 to 1,200 lbs).
Landed at Leadville, CO, last summer at 9,927 ft ASL. That ain't far
from 10,000 ft.
Either 1988 or 89, climbed to 10,000 ft in the 447 point ign Rotax
powered original Firestar over Alabama. That flight was cold and
exciting.
John W has climbed to well over 15,000 ft, I believe. I am sure Miss
P'fer will do 15,000+ if necessary. She was still climbing when we
reached 14,500. Haven't found the need to climb higher than 14,500 so
far.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 912 UL engine problem, the answer |
2. Yes, I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my 912ULS, as well as all the
other internal combustion engines I operate, gas, diesel, two stroke
and all.
Hi John,
Interesting to hear you say this. What ratio do you mix the MMO? Ever use
it in a new fuel injected vehicle?
Here's the reason I ask. I just ordered a 91 gallon transfer tank for my
truck, and plan to use it to fill the Mazda rotary powered RV-3, as well as
the 912ULS powered SS. In the rotary, we have to mix 1 oz per gallon of
either MMO, or two stroke oil to lubricate the apex seals. The most
convenient way for me to mix this, will be to add it to the transfer tank
when I'm filling it up. That will also keep it well mixed as I drive. Until
I read your post, I was thinking I wouldn't be able to mix the MMO in the
transfer tank, because I didn't think it would be good to use in the 912ULS.
Now, it sounds like it won't hurt the engine, and may actually help it.
Now, if I could only run 87 octane in the 912ULS (since that's all I need in
the rotary). Can't have everything I guess.
Cheers,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Giovanni Day <gde01(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Operating The 912 Series Engines |
John,
Thanks for the info. You originaly said 5000 WOT and I was a bit confsed.
I have the same thing happen at take off.
Giovanni
============================================================
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Date: 2004/11/09 Tue AM 10:12:29 EST
Subject: Kolb-List: Operating The 912 Series Engines
Duane/Gang:
Forgot to mention something about the 912.
1. I prop for 5,400 static. That gives me 5,300 climb and 5,500 WOT
straight and level. The rpm drops from 5,400 to 5,300 shortly after
the aircraft starts rolling on takeoff.
2. 5,000 seems to be the sweet spot for my MKIIIc and the 912 and the
912ULS. Easy to keep temps in normal operating range. However,
anything under 5,000 and eng oil and CHT drop off rapidly, especially
the 912. The 912ULS generates a lot more heat than the 912.
3. I use Valvoline Duralube Semi-Synthetic 5W40 when operating on
100LL, to suspend the lead in the engine.
4. I use Shell Rotella Full Synthetic 5W40 when operating on auto
fuel. Less than $13.00 a gal at Wal*Mart.
Take care,
john h
============================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Operating The 912 Series Engines |
In a message dated 11/9/2004 10:13:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:
4. I use Shell Rotella Full Synthetic 5W40 when operating on auto
fuel. Less than $13.00 a gal at Wal*Mart.
Take care,
john h
On reading the instructions on our 912 ULS install, they said use ONLY some
kind of whiz-bang Mobile 1 motorcycle oil; we just ordered enough for the next
several oil changes @ $9.00 a quart. Is that a bunch of baloney???
Also, they say use only one brand of coolant [can't remember which] that has
no water in it; also very expensive and not available locally. What do you
use, John H.?
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Interesting to hear you say this. What ratio do you mix the MMO?
Ever use
| it in a new fuel injected vehicle?
| Rusty
Rusty/Gang:
I mix MMO as prescribed by the manufacturer: 1 quart to 100 gal.
Sometimes I double up on it.
I use it in several fuel injected engines:
Cummins Diesel (282,000+ miles and smokin')
Nissan V6
Take care,
john h
PS: I have 25 gal gasoline and a 55 gal diesel tanks in the back of
my 1992 Dodge/Cummins. I pour MMO in both tanks. The gas tank is for
the 4 kw Onan generator (it has 2,400 hours on it).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Operating The 912 Series Engines |
| Thanks for the info. You originaly said 5000 WOT and I was a bit
confsed.
|
| I have the same thing happen at take off.
|
| Giovanni
Giovanni/Gang:
As an official senior citizen I am entiltled to to typos, memory
lapses, and screw ups. ;-)
I prop for 5,500 rpm WOT straight and level flight. That equates to
5,400 rpm static, as checked with "prop tach". Tachometers have been
know to be less than honest.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude goal |
R & G, et al,
<<10k is our legal limit. I wonder if one can get permission to do that
on a one time basis?>>
<<18000 and up is class A controlled with IFR equip aircraft and IFR
cert pilot. So I thought 17999 was the limit. Can some one clarify?>>
Presume Richard is referring to the requirement for a Mode C transponder
above 10,000 feet MSL or 2,500 feet AGL, whichever is higher (not to
mention the area around Class B and Class C airports).
Yes, you can get one-time and even recurring exemptions. Contact the
ARTCC responsible for your area and see what they want in terms of prior
notice, radios, location, etc. Be nice, granting exemptions is their
option.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Operating The 912 Series Engines |
| On reading the instructions on our 912 ULS install, they said use
ONLY some
| kind of whiz-bang Mobile 1 motorcycle oil; we just ordered enough
for the next
| several oil changes @ $9.00 a quart. Is that a bunch of baloney???
|
| Also, they say use only one brand of coolant [can't remember which]
that has
| no water in it; also very expensive and not available locally. What
do you
| use, John H.?
|
|
| Howard Shackleford
Morning Shack/Gang:
The way I understand it, Rotax recommends 4 stroke MC oil because
there is a gear lube additive in it. I used a couple qts in my Suzuki
DRZ400E and decided I would go back to my Mobil I or Shell Rotella
Full Sythetic oil that did not cost $8.00+ a quart. I figure if
organic Rotella can do a good job of lubricating all those gears in
those "big" diesel over the road engines, should be able to lube my
912 and my 400cc thumper bike engine.
I can not recommend or advise anyone to do anything, especially when
it is in contradiction to the "book". But I can share with you all
what I do and use.
This latest service bulletin with the new, expensive coolant, allows
you to run the CHT right up to the specified red line. Ethyl Glycol
is limited to 265F 50/50 mix. John W and I discussed this at Lucedale
last month. We are going to continue run antifreeze. I use Texaco
Long Life at 50/50. I think as long as I keep the CHT below 265F I
will be ok. I operated in 114F temps in Death Valley two years ago.
Had to reduce power to keep the eng oil temp below the red line, as
well as CHT. $25.00 a gal plus shipping is more than I will pay for a
"dedicated" coolant that is not compatible with water.
In more than 2,000 hours I have had no problems based on incorrect oil
or coolant on my two 912 series engines.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912 UL engine problem, the answer |
In a message dated 11/9/04 8:50:56 AM Central Standard Time,
jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:
> 2. Yes, I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my 912ULS, as well as all the
> other internal combustion engines I operate, gas, diesel, two stroke
> and all.
John, What was your experience with the 447 and MMO?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
>members so far for the "10,000 ft. club":
13,400 in Oklahoma, almost all altitude gained at 1/4 throttle and
thermals.......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 Super Viking, 492TC
95 FS II, Hirth 2704
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 UL engine problem, the answer |
| John, What was your experience with the 447 and MMO?
Steve/Gang:
I added it to the premix fuel in the same ratio as prescribed on the
bottle. Kept the same 50 to 1 premix ratio.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Registering Changes to Experimental Aircraft in the USA |
I called today to find out what I need to do to keep my experimental airplane legal
with the changes I'm making to my plane. I was told that I had the old "Special
Airworthiness Certificate" and I am required to notify the FAAs FSDO office
and get written response before I can fly my airplane. The changes necessitating
this notification is defined in FAR 21.93 . Now he said I can E-mail him
with a brief description of the changes and indicate that I have done a weight
and balance. He said he would E-mail right back a conformation so that I can
go fly and he would forward the changes to my records at FAA. I then need to
update the aircraft logs with the same information and fly off 5 test hours.
No muss no fuss I will be legal.
Now if I had the new Certificate I would just update my log book and fly off the
5 test hours. He said the sheet attached to the certificate details the requirements
and follow the sheet you have.
For the record I'm documenting the change to a reduction drive and the new engine
mount.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Pearce" <rap(at)isp.com> |
| Subject: | Titan 10 gal gas tanks |
I lost my e mail about the tanks and could not find any thing on them using
the search engine. I would like to order 2 tanks from Titan. Would the guy who
had the pictures and purchase info please copy me on them . Thank you Rick Pearce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Titan 10 gal gas tanks |
If possible I too would like some photo's of these and the order details.
Mike the Kiwi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Pearce" <rap(at)isp.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Titan 10 gal gas tanks
>
> I lost my e mail about the tanks and could not find any thing on them
> using the search engine. I would like to order 2 tanks from Titan. Would
> the guy who had the pictures and purchase info please copy me on them .
> Thank you Rick Pearce
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JIM HEFNER" <hefner_jim(at)msn.com> |
From: "boyd young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net<mailto:by0ung(at)brigham.net>>
>
Subject: Kolb-List: kolb 10,000 ft club
exclusive 10,000 ft. membership club ? Who's been there? I know the 2 Johns
have! Anyone else ?
boyd young,mkIII c,,,,, been there and beyond, quite legaly over the rocky
mountains.
Boyd, gang,
I've had my Firefly w/447 up to 10,200 on the GPS, flying around Mt Lemmon here
in Tucson. It would go higher but it was too cold up there with open cockpit...
wasn't dressed to stay up there long, but it was still able to climb higher.
That's with a 2 blade IVO pitched for cruise.
About MMO and 447's... I've been using Red Line 2 stroke racing oil at 100:1 +
2oz's of MMO per 5 gal's in my 447 for over 2 yrs and it purrs like a kitten
and my temps CHT & EGT are great (right on).... no carboning problems here. Living
in AZ where there is no winter down time, the synthetic oil works well....
up North, not a good idea.
Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
FF #022 185 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cabin heater anyone? |
| From: | Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com> |
11/10/2004 07:17:01 AM
I have a custom-made cabin heater for sale. I built it of an automotive
(12 volt) blower, a motocross motorcycle radiator (aluminum), and these
are ducted together with aluminum sheet. It weighs about 8 pounds, and
just fits inside the nose cone of the Kolb Mkiii classic (works well to
help correct rear-ward weight and balance problems!). In fact, the rudder
pedal return spring is installed in a hole right thru the heater mounting
bracket. In addition to the above assembly, it is equipped with enough
1/2" ID rubber hose (all insulated) to get to the base of your liquid
cooled engine, and most if not all of the mounting hardware. How you would
plumb it into your cooling system I leave up to you. The blower is a two
speed unit, and when running in its intended installed position it draws
air from under the floor boards, passes it thru the moto-x radiator heating
it, and blows it onto the cabin occupant's feet and legs. This heater
worked well for me and I hate to see it go but now with an air-cooled BMW
engine it does me no good. I would like to see someone get some good from
it and so I am offering it to the first person with $40 expressing
interest. $40 includes shipping to the continental US for all the above.
I do have a couple digital pics of this thing, although since it is all
black it is tough to make out a lot of detail.
Jim Gerken
gerken(at)us.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com> |
| Subject: | 10,000 Ft + and the FAA |
I am commercial hot-air balloon pilot who has been lurking on the board as I may
be swapping "lighter than air"- heavy as hell for some Kolb wings.
The FAA has a program in coordination with NASA to investigate the number of times
that pilots "push the FAR's". The program consists of a postcard-- should
get at FAA local FISDO- that needs to be mailed within 72 hours of the FAR incursion.
If mailed the FAA will not "press charges" for FAR busting (with some
exceptions-- like injury, death, etc). The ultra-light community should take
advantage of this program now that many are turning to the "light sport" pilots.
You might want to keep some of them in your back pocket if you are going
for records without proper clearances.
I have used the cards twice (once when I went to 15000+) and a friend who flies
Lears/Citations for a living keeps a dozen in his flight bag and mailed one last
year when he busted a hold altitude going into West Chester.
If anyone has an idea (trailer or wants to fly with me from Dallas to PA) as to
how to get a Kob to a new home -- would be happy to hear from you.
Tom O'Hara--Just full of hot air
tohara(at)alphagraphics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi John,
Thanks for the info. I know that my Honda generator doesn't mind burning 1
oz per gallon of 2 stroke oil. After the hurricane, I ended up draining gas
from the RV-3 to run it.
Rusty
-------------------------------
I mix MMO as prescribed by the manufacturer: 1 quart to 100 gal.
Sometimes I double up on it.
I use it in several fuel injected engines:
Cummins Diesel (282,000+ miles and smokin')
Nissan V6
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin heater anyone? |
I'll take it!
Jim
Mark III
Charlotte, NC
704-510-1339
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Cabin heater anyone?
>
>
> I have a custom-made cabin heater for sale. I built it of an automotive
> (12 volt) blower, a motocross motorcycle radiator (aluminum), and these
> are ducted together with aluminum sheet. It weighs about 8 pounds, and
> just fits inside the nose cone of the Kolb Mkiii classic (works well to
> help correct rear-ward weight and balance problems!). In fact, the rudder
> pedal return spring is installed in a hole right thru the heater mounting
> bracket. In addition to the above assembly, it is equipped with enough
> 1/2" ID rubber hose (all insulated) to get to the base of your liquid
> cooled engine, and most if not all of the mounting hardware. How you
would
> plumb it into your cooling system I leave up to you. The blower is a two
> speed unit, and when running in its intended installed position it draws
> air from under the floor boards, passes it thru the moto-x radiator
heating
> it, and blows it onto the cabin occupant's feet and legs. This heater
> worked well for me and I hate to see it go but now with an air-cooled BMW
> engine it does me no good. I would like to see someone get some good from
> it and so I am offering it to the first person with $40 expressing
> interest. $40 includes shipping to the continental US for all the above.
> I do have a couple digital pics of this thing, although since it is all
> black it is tough to make out a lot of detail.
>
> Jim Gerken
> gerken(at)us.ibm.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=h/I/DLzC4tnlq4JDWIW1v5YIk2yITc4js6yt5udJOP9c1iqQao7M4IzvTjNvhGA+wWLcmPS1bLmaeZNglyYDiXM0VvtCXZjwIsvY6R270gfWGULorDUGbokqmZL7CpRRk9YN3OoVC2M8D0ARFa3Vkwx2kKMdW9lM22IdtjMb7z0;
| From: | John Jung <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10,000 ft. club |
Bob and Group,
My 1997 report of a flight to 17,000 feet in an
original 377 Firestar is documented in the Kolb list
archives as well as on my website:
Here is the text from my website:
"In the spring of '97, I read in the Kolb newsletter
about a flight into Leadville, CO., where a 377
Firestar climbed to 15,000 ASL. The pilot indicated
that the plane could have gone higher. That made me
wonder how high my 377 Firestar would go. So I gave it
a try. I put the throttle to FULL at brake release,
and didn't move it again for 44 minutes. At 17,000
feet ASL, and still climbing at 250 fpm, I gave up
because I had no oxygen supply along. So I let the
engine idle for a minute and then shut it down. What
followed was 30 minutes of quiet flight and then a
dead stick landing on a local runway. The view was
fantastic but it was second to the accomplishment of a
flight to 17,000. I normally fly from 1,000 ASL and
the carb was not rejetted for the flight. Only 2.5
gallons of gas were used."
That flight took place in Wisconsin. Since that
flight, I was able to confirm that the altimeter was
reasonably accurate with a GPS. I also was able to
check my electronic vario, and it read high. The 250
ft/min climb at 17,000 was in reality about 100
ft/min.
For anyone interested in seeing a picture of that
Firestar:
http://jrjung.0catch.com/Original.html
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
> Also John Jung went to 17,000 MSL-- need to here
> from him to verify altitude
> (AGL)
>
> Anyone else who achieves this goal can post on the
> list or contact me direct
> at airgriff2(at)aol.com
>
> Fly Safe
> Bob Griffin
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 Ft + and the FAA |
Forgiveness doesn't apply if you intentionally break the rules. If you use
the card for that purpose your admitting guilt and could be used against
you. If you happen to screw up and say happen to enter a class B terminal
airspace by accident, then it will protect you.
jerb
>
>I am commercial hot-air balloon pilot who has been lurking on the board as
>I may be swapping "lighter than air"- heavy as hell for some Kolb wings.
>
>The FAA has a program in coordination with NASA to investigate the number
>of times that pilots "push the FAR's". The program consists of a
>postcard-- should get at FAA local FISDO- that needs to be mailed within
>72 hours of the FAR incursion. If mailed the FAA will not "press charges"
>for FAR busting (with some exceptions-- like injury, death, etc). The
>ultra-light community should take advantage of this program now that many
>are turning to the "light sport" pilots. You might want to keep some of
>them in your back pocket if you are going for records without proper
>clearances.
>
>I have used the cards twice (once when I went to 15000+) and a friend who
>flies Lears/Citations for a living keeps a dozen in his flight bag and
>mailed one last year when he busted a hold altitude going into West Chester.
>
>If anyone has an idea (trailer or wants to fly with me from Dallas to PA)
>as to how to get a Kob to a new home -- would be happy to hear from you.
>
>Tom O'Hara--Just full of hot air
>tohara(at)alphagraphics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 62" Ivoprop sale |
Hi Richard,
Why are you swapping props - curious and what are you switching to.
I've been running an IVO two blade on my 447, it works pretty good but been
watching what users are have to say about other props such as Warps, Hot
Props, and ProFin. Seems like the adage mileage may vary applies, no good
conclusive comparative results.
jerb
>Richard Pike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimmy and jo ann" <hillstw(at)jhill.biz> |
My 503 DCDI (on a Firestar II) starts fine when it is cold, but not after it is
hot. I have cleaned the idle jets, checked carbs, etc.
It cruises good, temps are ok. Just cannot start it hot. Has anyone else had
this problem? Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Jimmy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William George <wgeorge(at)mountainmeadowranch.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
Went to 10k several times in my 582 powered Mk-3. Leveled at 10k with
VSI still indicating 400 fpm looking up at the summit of Mauna Kea. Had
HAC carbs on the 582 which worked great. Way too cold up there with
only half doors.
Here's a shot taken from the Mauna Kea area looking northwest toward
Kamuela and the Kohala mountains.
http://www.hawaiiscenics.com/gallery/144699/1/5411187
Bill George
Hawaii
Kolb Mk-3 Verner 1400 Powerfin
On Nov 9, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote:
> Here is an update on members so far for the "10,000 ft. club":
> Kiwi 11,200
> Richard Pike 10,000
> Dave Pelletier 10,200
> G Haley 13,000
> Terry Swartz 12,500
> Tim 10,700
> Tom Guidros 14,200
> Richard Swiderski 11,600
>
> Hav'nt heard from John Hauck or John Williamson.
> Also John Jung went to 17,000 MSL-- need to here from him to verify
> altitude
> (AGL)
>
> Anyone else who achieves this goal can post on the list or contact me
> direct
> at airgriff2(at)aol.com
>
> Fly Safe
> Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
MY 503 (point ignition) is the same way. I think when it is warm the carb
bowl gets warm
and expands the gas in it to flood the engine.
when I try to prime it I make it worse.
mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Nicely" <vincenic(at)xtn.net> |
Hi Jimmy,
You said: > My 503 DCDI (on a Firestar II) starts fine when it is cold, but
not after it is hot. I have cleaned the idle jets, checked carbs, etc.
> It cruises good, temps are ok. Just cannot start it hot. Has anyone
else had this problem? Any suggestions?
I had this problem with symptoms you describe on my 503 DCDI on my Firestar
for years. I would usually notice that a new set of plugs would fix the
problem for a while. Then, owing to a note on this list, I have started
making sure my plugs are gapped in the mid to lower region specified in the
Rotax manual (0.014-0.016) and the problem has disappeared - even on plugs
substantanially over 25 hours.
I noticed that Ralph said, "Are the plugs gapped to .015" and clean with a
brown tint? ". I guess I am echoing what he said with added emphasis.
Vince Nicely
Firestar II 350 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <buckeridge1(at)mindspring.com> |
Seems like we all have different solutions to the problem. Mine is a 447
CDI and if I went somewhere I knew I had to leave in five minutes or wait a
half hour. I'd work up a real sweat trying to start it in between those two
times...not that this fat guy doesn't need some exercise. The solution for
me was to crack the throttle about a quarter of an inch. Now when it won't
start after a half-dozen pulls, I just reach over and flip the ignition
switch ON!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimmy and jo ann" <hillstw(at)jhill.biz>
Subject: Kolb-List: Hot start
>
> My 503 DCDI (on a Firestar II) starts fine when it is cold, but not after
> it is hot. I have cleaned the idle jets, checked carbs, etc.
> It cruises good, temps are ok. Just cannot start it hot. Has anyone
> else had this problem? Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
Hi Gang, I think we are winding down on submissions to be in the "Kolb 10
K Club". So far I have:
Kiwi
R. Pike
G. Haley
T. Swartz
Tim
T. Guidros
R. Swiderski
F Reynen
J. Hauck
J. Baker
V. Nicely
G. Day
J. Gerkin
T. Hefner
W. George
R. Griffin
Waiting to hear from J. Williamson, and John Jung on their altitudes "above
ground level" (AGL)
As we are coming to an end on this topic, I will be contacting you for your
mailing address to send the certificates.
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The cabin heater is spoken for! |
| From: | Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com> |
11/11/2004 07:38:03 AM
The heater is sold to Jim (flykolb) of Charlotte NC. Thanks for all the
interest guys!
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
I have received a couple e-mails and it has been mentioned that flights above
and beyond 10,000 ft. require a mode c transponder and we shouldn't discuss
it. One can assume that a pilot may have had one on board the day they did the
flight ? Or we can keep everyone down as achieving the altitude of 10,000
ft AGL PERIOD. I guess I'll keep it at 10,000ft. The certificates will state
that the pilot has achieved flying his Kolb aircraft to an altitude gain of
10,000 feet above the ground.
There also seems to be confusion on what AGL means?
It means that when you looked out of your aircraft to the ground below, there
was nothing between you and the ground but 10,000 ft of air. It does not mean
10,000 ft above sea level (MSL)
Thanks
fly safe
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ElleryWeld(at)aol.com |
As soon as I get a chance and a nice warm day I plan on making the 10,000 AGL
club
Original Firestar
Ellery In Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Old Kolb Kxx Kit & Rotax 503 |
Folks,
A friend recently passed away. He had a Kolb pre 1993 Kxx (FireStar?)
kit. He had all the parts but pulling them together might be
challenge. If the main parts main parts could be pulled together like
fuselage, tail boom all weldments, tubing, spars, pre-assembled ribs, gear
legs, wheels & brakes, fuel tank, what would it be worth?
He also had a Rotax 503 he purchased through LEAF. Can't get to it right
now to determine if its a point or Ducati ignition, also what provision
gear box. I don't think it had been run but can't determine it until it
looked at. Having set for this long the engine should be gone over and new
seals installed. I recall him saying some thing to the effect that LEAF
had screwed him as it was suppose to have been a new engine but when he got
it, he convinced it had been run. Having seen it in the past my gut feel
it has been run for a short period, has point ignition, for now say it has
one carbs, set up for premix no oil injection, and prov. 8 gear box.
Would it be worth purchasing as a trade in to take advantage of the engine
exchange being offered by Rotax or is it worth more just selling it
straight out as is.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Off subject, Delete key primed.
I want to wish all the Really Old Farts who served in The Big One...and
all the others... in our almost continuos wars...a peaceful and healthy
Armistice Day--what we usta call it some 80+ years ago. Hard to believe
some 1000 or more are taking the Final Flight each day.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David M. Lehman" <david(at)davidlehman.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Kolb Kxx Kit & Rotax 503 |
Jerb...
If it's on the Left Coast and comes up for sale, please let me know...
DVD
Quoting jerb :
>
> Folks,
> A friend recently passed away. He had a Kolb pre 1993 Kxx (FireStar?)
> kit. He had all the parts but pulling them together might be
> challenge. If the main parts main parts could be pulled together like
> fuselage, tail boom all weldments, tubing, spars, pre-assembled ribs, gear
> legs, wheels & brakes, fuel tank, what would it be worth?
> He also had a Rotax 503 he purchased through LEAF. Can't get to it right
> now to determine if its a point or Ducati ignition, also what provision
> gear box. I don't think it had been run but can't determine it until it
> looked at. Having set for this long the engine should be gone over and new
> seals installed. I recall him saying some thing to the effect that LEAF
> had screwed him as it was suppose to have been a new engine but when he got
> it, he convinced it had been run. Having seen it in the past my gut feel
> it has been run for a short period, has point ignition, for now say it has
> one carbs, set up for premix no oil injection, and prov. 8 gear box.
>
> Would it be worth purchasing as a trade in to take advantage of the engine
> exchange being offered by Rotax or is it worth more just selling it
> straight out as is.
> jerb
>
>
Man must feel the earth to know himself and recognize his values...
God made life simple. It is man who complicates it...
-Charles Lindbergh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca> |
As the temperatures are starting to drop up here in the great white north, I'm
having trouble starting the 912 when the temp is just above the freezing point.
Engine has choke system but no primer. It will usually start but it takes a
lot of cranking.
I've checked the archives and haven't found much information other than making
sure the plugs are gapped to .5 which I have done.
Any other suggestions which might help?
Thanks
Tom Sabean
Mk3x 912 Warp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 912 cold start |
| From: | russkinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net> |
on 11/12/04 11:36 AM, sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca at sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca
wrote:
>
> As the temperatures are starting to drop up here in the great white north, I'm
> having trouble starting the 912 when the temp is just above the freezing
> point. Engine has choke system but no primer. It will usually start but it
> takes a lot of cranking.
> I've checked the archives and haven't found much information other than making
> sure the plugs are gapped to .5 which I have done.
> Any other suggestions which might help?
>
> Thanks
> Tom Sabean
> Mk3x 912 Warp
>
>
>
>
>
>
I don't think you really mean a .5 gap?
Do not archivbe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | RE: 912 cold start |
I have an electric boost pump that I use in cold weather on my 912. It is in essence
a primer, in that it makes sure the carb bowl has fuel, and that is all
it does. I run it for just a few seconds, turn it off and use full carb enricher
(it is not really a choke). The carb enricher does not work like a butterfly
choke, it simply enriches the mixture and has no effect on the air intake. The
Bing Carb enricher WILL NOT WORK WITH THE THROTTLE OPEN, so be sure you have
the enricher on full and the throttle completely closed when cranking. In cold
weather, after it starts, gradually reduce the enricher until it runs smoothly
at normal idle speed. Depending upon how your idle is set, it may or may not
take a little bit of throttle as you gradually reduce the enricher. In warmer
weather, the enricher can be shut off almost immediately after starting.
Thom Riddle
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
Buffalo, NY
As the temperatures are starting to drop up here in the great white north, I'm
having trouble starting the 912 when the temp is just above the freezing point.
Engine has choke system but no primer. It will usually start but it takes a
lot of cranking.
I've checked the archives and haven't found much information other than making
sure the plugs are gapped to .5 which I have done.
Any other suggestions which might help?
Thanks
Tom Sabean
Mk3x 912 Warp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Curtin" <jcurtin(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Old Kolb Kxx Kit & Rotax 503 |
Hello Jerb, If the parts are for sale, I would be interested and would pay a
fair price as I want to do some considerable alterations and a kit not built
would suit me just fine. Please let me know. Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Old Kolb Kxx Kit & Rotax 503
>
> Folks,
> A friend recently passed away. He had a Kolb pre 1993 Kxx (FireStar?)
> kit. He had all the parts but pulling them together might be
> challenge. If the main parts main parts could be pulled together like
> fuselage, tail boom all weldments, tubing, spars, pre-assembled ribs, gear
> legs, wheels & brakes, fuel tank, what would it be worth?
> He also had a Rotax 503 he purchased through LEAF. Can't get to it right
> now to determine if its a point or Ducati ignition, also what provision
> gear box. I don't think it had been run but can't determine it until it
> looked at. Having set for this long the engine should be gone over and
new
> seals installed. I recall him saying some thing to the effect that LEAF
> had screwed him as it was suppose to have been a new engine but when he
got
> it, he convinced it had been run. Having seen it in the past my gut feel
> it has been run for a short period, has point ignition, for now say it has
> one carbs, set up for premix no oil injection, and prov. 8 gear box.
>
> Would it be worth purchasing as a trade in to take advantage of the engine
> exchange being offered by Rotax or is it worth more just selling it
> straight out as is.
> jerb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sport pilot rating / Experimental aircraft. |
I have read the rules and could not determine if what I want to do is legal.
I would like to register my MKIII Experimental, but only get my sport pilots
license. I think this is best because it gives me the rights to do my own
maint on the aircraft, and since the aircraft fits the Sport Plane category,
I can fly it with the Sport Pilot rating. The thing I am unsure of is the
required fly off period (40 hours). Can a person with a Sport Pilot rating
fly off the required time in an Experimental aircraft? If you know, please
comment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David M. Lehman" <david(at)davidlehman.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport pilot rating / Experimental aircraft. |
As long as the experimental aircraft meets the Sport Aircraft criteria, the
answer is yes...
DVD
Quoting Jason Omelchuck <jason@trek-tech.com>:
>
> I have read the rules and could not determine if what I want to do is legal.
> I would like to register my MKIII Experimental, but only get my sport pilots
> license. I think this is best because it gives me the rights to do my own
> maint on the aircraft, and since the aircraft fits the Sport Plane category,
> I can fly it with the Sport Pilot rating. The thing I am unsure of is the
> required fly off period (40 hours). Can a person with a Sport Pilot rating
> fly off the required time in an Experimental aircraft? If you know, please
> comment.
>
>
Man must feel the earth to know himself and recognize his values...
God made life simple. It is man who complicates it...
-Charles Lindbergh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS? |
My best guess is at the water pump outlet.
It's surprising that one doesn't come with the engine.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> Your certificates had better note
> 10,000 ft above MSL if you expect to publically display them
> around an airport where an FAA field inspector may be
snooping
> around.
The facts.......
Sec. 91.215 - ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment
and use.
(a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not
conducted under part
121 or 135 of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment installed
must meet the performance
and environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C74b (Mode
A) or any class of TSO-C74c
(Mode A with altitude reporting capability) as appropriate, or the
appropriate class of
TSO-C112 (Mode S).
(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no
person may operate an
aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5)
of this section,
unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar
beacon transponder having
either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A
interrogations with the code
specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A
interrogations with the
code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S interrogations in
accordance with the
applicable provisions specified in TSO C-112, and that aircraft is
equipped with automatic
pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability
that automatically
replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude
information in 100-foot
increments. This requirement applies --
(1) All aircraft. In Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace areas;
(2) All aircraft. In all airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport
listed in
appendix D, section 1 of this part from the surface upward to 10,000
feet MSL;
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft
which was not
originally certificated with an engine- driven electrical system or
which has not
subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or
glider may conduct
operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed
in appendix D,
section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted --
(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace
area designated
for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and
(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral
boundaries of a
Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward
to 10,000 feet MSL; and
(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated
with an
engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been
certified with such a
system installed, balloon, or glider -- --
(i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of
Columbia at and above
10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet
above the surface; and
(ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-
nautical-mile radius
of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding
the airspace below
1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of
the airspace
designated for that airport.
For our purposes....
1. Our planes are "air recreational vehicles" , not aircraft, if kept
within the definition of "UltraLight"...which admittedly, most are
not.....
2. Your craft, as powered by a non-certificated engine, may be
considered not to have had an electrical system. Indeed, there are
probably few, if any, certificated UL or Experimental aircraft out
there. For Experimental aircraft....AC 20-27E says.....
7. FAA INSPECTION CRITERIA.
a. The amateur-built program is designed to permit persons to build
an aircraft solely for educational or recreational purposes utilizing
acceptable aeronautical construction standards and practices.
Amateur builders are free to develop their own designs or build from
existing designs. The FAA does not approve those designs nor
would it be practical to develop design standards for the multitude of
unique design configurations generated by designers, kit
manufacturers, and amateur builders.
Upon completion of the building process, the FAA inspects the
aircraft, to verify to the extent feasible, the use of acceptable
workmanship methods, techniques, and practices, and then issues
anairworthiness certificate with appropriate operating limitations.
For this you get an airworthiness certificate, not a certificated aircraft,
which is
another thing entirely. So the Experimental aircraft generally fall
outside of the
"certificated with engine driven electrical system" rule (at least that's
what my FSDO
leads me to believe....I could be wrong on this point).
FAA 7110.65, ATC handbook, states....
5-2-21. INFLIGHT DEVIATIONS FROM TRANSPONDER/MODE C
REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN 10,000 FEET AND
18,000 FEET
Apply the following procedures to requests to deviate from the Mode
C transponder
requirement by aircraft operating in the airspace of the 48 contiguous
states and the
District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL and below 18,000
feet MSL, excluding the
airspace at and below 2,500 feet AGL.
NOTE-
1. 14 CFR Section 91.215(b) provides, in part, that all U.S.
registered civil aircraft must
be equipped with an operable, coded radar beacon transponder
when operating in the altitude
stratum listed above. Such transponders shall have a Mode 3/A
4096 code capability,
replying to Mode 3/A interrogation with the code specified by ATC, or
a Mode S capability,
replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC.
The aircraft must also
be equipped with automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment
having a Mode C capability
that automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting
pressure altitude
information in 100-foot increments.
2. The exception to 14 CFR Section 91.215 (b) is 14 CFR Section
91.215(b)(5) which states:
except balloons, gliders, and aircraft without engine-driven electrical
systems.
So....unless you're a certificated aircraft with a certificated engine
driven electrical
system, 10k doesn't apply to you. If you have no electricity, you have
no radio requirement
and cannot request the waiver and additionally have no transponder
requirement either.
Enough of this stuff.........go fly.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 cold start |
Hi Tom,
Perhaps if you flew it to a strip that's higher or lower AGL, it would
start just fine? ;
)
(Joking. I'm joking!)
Don't archive.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: <sabean(at)ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Kolb-List: 912 cold start
>
> As the temperatures are starting to drop up here in the great white north, I'm
having trouble starting the 912 when
the temp is just above the freezing point. Engine has choke system but no primer.
It will usually start but it takes a
lot of cranking.
> I've checked the archives and haven't found much information other than making
sure the plugs are gapped to .5 which I
have done.
> Any other suggestions which might help?
>
> Thanks
> Tom Sabean
> Mk3x 912 Warp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> |
Dear Fellow Nit Pickers,
Sigh:
<>
<<"air recreational vehicles">>
<>
<>
First "air recreational vehicles". If I understand FAR 103 correctly,
these "vehicles" are prohibited from all controlled airspace without
prior ATC permission. Despite 103's mention of flight above 10,000,
whether such high airspace is controlled is admittedly a gray area.
Wouldn't want to be the one to test the point.
Now for homebuilts. These are certificated, just certificated as
Experimental. Don't know of a single FSDO who interprets the rule
except to mean: at the time the (Experimental) certificate was issued
(or later), did the aircraft have an electrical system. This usually
means an alternator/generator, regulator and battery system large enough
to have an electric starter.
So the best way to join the club legally is to simply contact the ARTCC
for your area. If you are polite, they might give you a great big block
of time in a big area outside of the air routes. The only regulatory
requirement for people without transponders is one hour's notice. If
you have a radio, even just battery powered, probably the easiest way to
be legal is find out the local control frequency from the IFR pilot next
door and just call them when you are in the air. By the time you are up
to 10k, the hour's notice will have been passed in enjoyable flight.
I'm sure that is what all the existing members of the Kolb 10k club did
when they made their flights, right?
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building Original FireStar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ElleryWeld(at)aol.com |
Well, If I have to get someone to hold the dumb end of the tape to make sure
I'll go a bit further to make sure I have completed the mission
Ellery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS? |
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS?
> My best guess is at the water pump outlet.
>
> It's surprising that one doesn't come with the engine.
>
> Howard Shackleford
Howard/Gang:
I missed a post somewhere, I guess, reference water temp and 912/912ULS.
Straight from the horse's mouth at both 912 schools I attended, 2000 and
2004P:
There is no requirement to monitor coolant temps. We are only concerned
with cylinder head metal temperature.
Check all the publications and you will find no reference to coolant
temperatures.
I have a friend in Alaska who was pulling his hair out, what little he had
left, because he could not get the coolant temps down. I asked him to what
bracket he was trying to get them down to and where he got the requirement?
Took a lot of persuading to get this gentleman to understand we only need to
monitor cyl head metal temps.
Engine gauges on my 912/912ULS:
Oil Press
Oil Temp
CHT
Tach
Take care,
john h
PS: I am reading my email and sending this one from the kitchen table in my
5th wheel in the RV Park at Hollywood Casino, Robinsonville, Mississippi.
Another first for a guy that remembers the big RCA console with a tiny
yellowish round dial a few inches in diameter back in the 40's. Technology
sure has come a long ways since then. Ain't it great?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> Now for homebuilts. These are certificated, just certificated as
> Experimental.
Whoops...yer right. Rats! Thinking of something else when I typed
that line.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
I heard a quote some time ago, that seems to
be very applicable at this point:
"No good turn goes unstoned."
Sorry for your frustration,
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
USUA #30899
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
> It always comes down to the controller working the position,
.....
> I have always worked in the Southern Region of the FAA
As an ex-mil ATC type (shoot, my wife and I are both ex-mil ATC),
and having worked north, south, east, west, overseas, deployed out
to work civ ATC after the firings, etc, Richard nails it in the first line. If
I could, I would...and sometimes would even if I wasn't supposed to,
but always, always with an eye toward safety.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb's Overstock Sale |
http://www.tnkolbaircraft.com/overstock.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 Ft + and the FAA |
In a message dated 11/10/2004 11:08:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:
If anyone has an idea (trailer or wants to fly with me from Dallas to PA)
>as to how to get a Kob to a new home -- would be happy to hear from you.
>
>Tom O'Hara--Just full of hot air
>tohara(at)alphagraphics.com
An IDEA, but not necessarily the BEST one is to buy a used boat trailer, put
a little wood on it, and fasten your kolb to it, then apply stretch wrap.
(comes in 18" width)
Then pull it with your son's pickup to the destination. This gives him the
opportunity to come and visit you later when he retrieves it. I am buying the
gas for his return from Fla to Ohio and half of his $120 airfare. Trailer can
be purchased for around $800 and wood cost about $200 for outdoor wood.
Then you can pull the whole shootinmatch directly into Hurricane Frances
like I did....or wait for better weather. The left wheel only left the road, 3
times IAW my rear view mirror.
hope this helps.
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages, Fl
ps, Hey George Alexander ...sorry I missed you the other day!
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
This may be what one can expect by flying 10k agl.>>
Jack,
what a super film. Thanks for putting me on to it.
Fancy being paid to do that!
Cheers
Pat
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/14/2004 6:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
However in the last year I have been flying from a strip inside a control
zone inside which operates the 2nd largest fleet of C 130`s in the world and
I have (almost) always asked for permission to take off or to penetrate the
MATZ to land. The R A F controllers have always been unfailingly polite and
helpful. If they say `wait one` you know they are really pushed.
At another strip about a mile away a friend had a C 130 fly UNDER him when
he was on the approach. He sold his ultralight and has not flown since. I
have tended to contact the controller rather more often since then.
Cheers
I had a similar experience at youngstown Ohio ....my field was within sight,
2miles of the airbase serving C-130's and I saw one taking off so I headed
90 degrees away from it. Well, I have felt the approach of large aircraft
before and you know how it feels as your entire ambient including you and your
ultralight are slightly pushed aside by the approach of an unseen craft of
magnificent proportion!! I have felt it several times but this was gargantuan.
I looked over to my right and...... lo an behold............. there, right
beside me, was a fella in the cockpit of a C-130, smilin at me...seems like I
coulda reached out and pinched his cheek. He could get soooooo close cause he
didn't have to worry about his wing....cause he was in a steep turn, to git
real close to me!! His inboard wing was below me...wayyyyy below me and his
outboard wing was above me....wayyyyy above me!! There was NO vortex
concerns...I could hardly believe it as he pushed on past me...and I turned away
from
him...shallow turn, straight and level.
I found out later that the loadmaster on the flight was Frank Marino, MkIII
builder just before he retired and he was pulling a fast....and scarey
one.....on me. He is a dear friend, although he no longer flies his Kolb for some
reason and is off the list. He still lives in Ohio, I think.
George Randolph
Firestar driver from The Villages
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: : Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS? |
It seems like I have read a few articles that indicate that a water pressure
gage is more important than a water temp gage. The fact that Rotax doesn't
publish a recommended temp range indicates that they aren't concerned. A
water pressure increasing above normal might indicate a impending problem. A
drop in water pressure below normal would indicate a leak. Food for thought.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "boyd young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: : Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS?
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS?
>
>
> My best guess is at the water pump outlet.
>
> It's surprising that one doesn't come with the engine.
>
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Rick Neilsen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Rick Neilsen
Lists: Kolb-List,Ultralight-List
Subject: New VW Engine Mount On Kolb MKIII
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/NeilsenRM@comcast.net.11.14.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Pearce" <rap(at)isp.com> |
Nice pictures. Can't wait to here the results of the test fights. Hope it solves
your take off rotation problem.
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: : Where to install water temp. sensor on 912ULS? |
In a message dated 11/14/2004 10:59:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
by0ung(at)brigham.net writes:
not sure if the 912 and 912s are different but the rotax manual for the 912
made no mention of the water temp sensor.... the eis has an input for the
water sensor so i put it in one of the cylindar head temp openings. someone
mentioned welding a nut on the side of the container just below the radiator cap.
boyd.
EIS recommends putting a short piece of 1" [od] pipe with a 10 X 1.5 mm nut
welded -on in
the water line; then screw in one of the CHT probes we removed from the
cylinder head. We put it just at the pump outlet.
For CHT's, EIS recommends pulling the two CHT probes & replacing with 10 X
1.5 mm bolts & utilize the CHT rings they provide under the bolt-heads.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Address Book |
hi larry, have you tried the import/export, i did that when i went from 98
to xp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larrry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Address Book
>
> My confuser's screen died on me last week, and it has to go to the
hospital for ~3 weeks or so. I bought a used computer to get by with, and
have run into a problem with the email addresses. I saved the old address
book, but can't get the thing to copy/paste or drag/drop into the new
computer. Old one is Windows XP, new is Windows 98 SE. Right now, instead
of Kolb List mail coming in as "Kolb List - Joe Blow," as on the old
computer, it's coming in as "Joe Blow - Kolb List." This means a tedious
circle of Create Rule, etc., for every message that comes in, to get past
the spam blocker. Is there a way to switch this around ?? Is there a way
to transfer my old address book to the new computer ?? Typing in 200 or so
addresses by hand doesn't really appeal to me all that much. :-) I
haven't turned the old one in yet, in case I need it for the change over.
Thanks Disgusted and Frustrated Lar. Do not
Archive.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III -
> Vamoose
>
>
> _-=====================================================================
> _-> _-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
> _-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> _-> _-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
> _-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
> _-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
> _-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
> _-> _-= List Contribution Web Site
> _-> _-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> _-> _-= Thank you for your generous support!
> _-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> _-> _-=====================================================================
> _-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
> _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
> _-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
> _-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> _-=====================================================================
> _-= List Related Information
> _-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> _-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> _-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
> _-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> _-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
> _-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
> _-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
> _-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
> _-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> _-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
> _-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> _-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> _-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> _-=====================================================================
>
>
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
This my be a double post so if it is please ignore, anyway
There is a Long Block 912 UL on Ebay
My question are.
1. anyone have a rough Ideal what it would cost to build it up? Rough Ideal
2. should I send it out to be built up or can anyone work on these engines (
any reasonable mechanic)
3. Is it worth it or would I be wasting my money. ( I can afford a new 582
but not a 912 )
Ken James
Drafting Design Technology Instructor
Berks Career and Technology Center
East Campus
3307 Friedensburg Rd.
Oley, Pa. 19506
610-987-6201 Ext. 3532
Kdjames(at)berkscareer.com
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com> |
yes 914 oops
Was thinking 912 when I was typing
-----Original Message-----
From: robert bean [mailto:slyck(at)frontiernet.net]
Subject: 912?
Ken, I see a 914 on there. -same one you talking about?
If you intend to build it up strictly factory I imagine they'd get
in your pants pretty good for the accessories. Stuff like the
starter and distributor you would have to buy. The rest,
like induction, carburetion, etc. you could create yourself.
-Bob Bean, did it all on the suzuki
_-=====================================================================
_-_-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
_-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
_-_-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the
_-= Contribution link below to find out more about this
_-= year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by the
_-= The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com!
_-_-= List Contribution Web Site
_-_-= http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-_-=====================================================================
_-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
_-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the Contributions
_-= of List members. You'll never see banner ads or any other
_-= form of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
_-=====================================================================
_-= List Related Information
_-= Post Message: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
_-= UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
_-= List FAQ: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm
_-= Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
_-= 7-Day Browse: http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list
_-= Browse Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list
_-= Live List Chat: http://www.matronics.com/chat
_-= Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
_-= Photo Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
_-= List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kolb-list
_-= Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
_-= Trouble Report http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
_-= Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-=====================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: 10,000 ft. club |
Bob Griffin wrote: << OK guys. From all the replies to my flight to 10,000
ft. it sounds like I started something. You need to do it flying your Kolb!
It is 10,000ft AGL. which must be reached. So far I have: Kiwi, Richard P.,
& Dave Pelletier. Fly safe - Bob Griffin >>
Above GROUND level ?!
Yikes - for me that would mean 16,200 msl.
(My home airport is 6200' elevation.)
This summer, I took my Mark-3C up on a clear June day, and made it to 13,200
msl.
The Verner was purring at 3800 rpm (about 80 percent power), and my VSI
still showed 200 fpm climb.
What puzzled me most (at the time) were the airspeed readings - the higher I
got, the slower the IAS. Above 13,000 feet, my airspeed was 42 mph. That
same power setting was giving me 65 mph at field elevation. Then I realized
what I was seeing was the difference between true and indicated airspeed,
and how indicated airspeed drops off with altitude. Did the conversion
after the flight, and found that my TAS was actually somewhere around 58
mph.
As others have pointed out - when flying at this altitude, you lose all
sense of forward motion. Seems like you are just suspended there, way up in
the vast endless sky, not even moving. Very lonely, but at the same time,
peaceful. And the wonderful thought of being able to do this in a little
airplane that I build in my garage. I love my Kolb!
Dennis Kirby
New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larrry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Address Book |
Thanks for the idea, Ron. I'll give it a try. Lar. Do not
Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III -
Vamoose
----- Original Message -----
From: ron wehba
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Address Book
hi larry, have you tried the import/export, i did that when i went from 98
to xp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larrry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
To:
Subject: Kolb-List: Address Book
>
> My confuser's screen died on me last week, and it has to go to the
hospital for ~3 weeks or so. I bought a used computer to get by with, and
have run into a problem with the email addresses. I saved the old address
book, but can't get the thing to copy/paste or drag/drop into the new
computer. Old one is Windows XP, new is Windows 98 SE. Right now, instead
of Kolb List mail coming in as "Kolb List - Joe Blow," as on the old
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed today in the
crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra. The passenger on board is hospitalized
( I can't remember the condition he was in). The crash seemed to have
happened on the factory runway. I believe the TV reports said it may have
crashed short of the runway. The footage showed Travis Brown and other
familiar faces.
Please pray for his family. I know he had a little daughter with him at the
fly-in. I believe that he also had another daughter.
Sadly,
Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horrible news |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Here is the local news. They show a video but get the names all wrong.
http://www.wkyt.com/
Ralph
writes:
>
>
> Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed
> today in the
> crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra. The passenger on board is
> hospitalized
> ( I can't remember the condition he was in). The crash seemed to
> have
> happened on the factory runway. I believe the TV reports said it
> may have
> crashed short of the runway. The footage showed Travis Brown and
> other
> familiar faces.
>
> Please pray for his family. I know he had a little daughter with
> him at the
> fly-in. I believe that he also had another daughter.
>
> Sadly,
> Clay Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
Sadly,
Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kfackler" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Norm Labhart |
May the god of their understanding remain close to the Labhart family.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush(at)tema.net> |
This is very sad news. Norm was the factory test pilot and I believe
was G.M. of TNK at one time. I met him about five years ago. He was
always very courteous, kind and helpful. A gentleman in every sense of
the word. I had the privilege of flying with him at the fly-in this
summer. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.
Rex Rodebush
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news
Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed today in
the
crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420(at)freescale.com> |
Kolbers,
I am really sad. This is a great loss to us kolbers. I will miss him.
Tim Gherkins
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay Stuart
Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
Here is the link to the newspaper article:
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
Sadly,
Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net> |
Here is an email from the other occupant of the Xtra with Norm. He is
in Lexington with his condition upgraded somewhat. I'm guessing he was with
Norm doing some transitional work. Just can't believe this happened to two
experienced pilots.
Clay Stuart
Match: #4
Message: #37019
From: "chris davis" <scrounge69(at)comcast.net>
Subject: BRS chute wanted to buy
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Kolbers, I have made a deal on a beautiful mkIII . After flying alone for
9years
in my firestar I will get to share the fun ! but I need a chute [ wife's
rule]
so, does anyone know of a brs 1050 vls or soft pack that some one wants
to
almost give away? Thanks ,Chris davis , soon to be owner of Miss B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Electret Throat Microphone |
FireFlyers and Kolbers,
Finally! I have been able to make an electret (condenser) throat microphone
to work on my hand held radio. Also, I changed to a better (more noise
rejection) and less expensive throat microphone.
The electret microphone requires a power source and it does not produce an
output signal sufficient to drive the transmitter input. I added a pre
amplifier and battled radio frequency interference that is induced when one
keys the transmitter. Now that it is done it has been worth the effort.
It is not an elegant solution but if you would like to see how it was done,
check:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly110.html
For anyone who flies in an open cockpit this is a great improvement. It
completely knocks out wind, engine and propeller noise from the transmitted
or recorded signal.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 62" Ivoprop sale |
Thanks Bro. Pike,
That sounds reasonable. I may take another look at that area before I
recover and paint.
We have had a 582 on a Mark II for many years with no problems.
Does the Firestar have thinner walled tubing than the old twinstar Mark
II which was originally designed for a 503?
What diameter prop do you plan to use?
I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very
low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger
prop may be.
The 582 has been running a 66" two blade IVO on the Twinstar well over
300hr without a problem.
Gene
Richard Pike wrote:
>
> We talked to some folks at the Kolb fly in, and they were not happy with a
> 582 on a FSII. Seems the main root tube that the engine mounts are tied to
> on the FSII is a thinner wall diameter than the ones used on the MKIII and
> the Kolbra, and they were concerned with the extra horsepower doing
> unexpected and rude things (like cracking the tube) in the vicinity of the
> motor mounts due to the unplanned-for torque. Also the down tubes at the
> rear of the cage, between the rear spar carrythrough and the boom tube, are
> a thinner wall thickness than for the 65 horse aircraft. They were not
> concerned with the rest of the aircraft, as long as the published speeds
> and weights were observed.
>
> So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube
> bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist
> action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them
> trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII
> addition to my MKIII web page.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> FSII N582EF (582 Ed's Folly)
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hey preacher,
>>What structural mods are you doing?
>>I'm also planning to use a 582 on my Firestar.
>>
>>Gene
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 62" Ivoprop sale |
In a message dated 11/16/2004 9:37:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com writes:
I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very
low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger
prop may be.
And a "C" box with clutch will [has] solved that problem.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 62" Ivoprop sale |
In a message dated 11/16/2004 12:02:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube
bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist
action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them
trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII
addition to my MKIII web page.
Richard Pike
Richard, we would be very interested in details of your external braces, etc.
[photo's>].
Chuck Reinert has maybe 10 hours on his 582/FSII with ne problems. I'd feel
better if we could beef the cage a little.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: 62" Ivoprop sale |
I don't know about the Twinstar compared to the FSII. I didn't know there
was a difference between the Firestar and the MKIII root tube until Norm
pointed it out at the Fly in. That was the last time I saw Norm, he took me
for a ride in the accident Xtra, let me fly it, I enjoyed it very much.
Then he flew my MKIII and told me "Don't change a thing, it flies like a
big Firefly." I really liked him a lot, he was a good man.
We have a 2 blade 68" Ivo waiting in the box for the FSII.
I think the only time we might have a problem is when taking off a rough
field at full throttle, or being at full throttle in heavy turbulence,
aside from that, it is probably not important. Anyway, today I finished
adding the front and rear additional supports, so now it doesn't matter at
all. Be glad to get done, tomorrow comes the last of the wiring.
rp
>
>
>Thanks Bro. Pike,
>
>That sounds reasonable. I may take another look at that area before I
>recover and paint.
>
>We have had a 582 on a Mark II for many years with no problems.
>Does the Firestar have thinner walled tubing than the old twinstar Mark
>II which was originally designed for a 503?
>
>What diameter prop do you plan to use?
>
>I believe the extra HP will not be the problem, but the "shakes" at very
>low RPM at startup and shut down caused by the extra inertia of a bigger
>prop may be.
>The 582 has been running a 66" two blade IVO on the Twinstar well over
>300hr without a problem.
>
>Gene
>
>
>Richard Pike wrote:
> >
> > We talked to some folks at the Kolb fly in, and they were not happy with a
> > 582 on a FSII. Seems the main root tube that the engine mounts are tied to
> > on the FSII is a thinner wall diameter than the ones used on the MKIII and
> > the Kolbra, and they were concerned with the extra horsepower doing
> > unexpected and rude things (like cracking the tube) in the vicinity of the
> > motor mounts due to the unplanned-for torque. Also the down tubes at the
> > rear of the cage, between the rear spar carrythrough and the boom tube,
> are
> > a thinner wall thickness than for the 65 horse aircraft. They were not
> > concerned with the rest of the aircraft, as long as the published speeds
> > and weights were observed.
> >
> > So we have fabricated an external brace that runs from the 3/8" boom tube
> > bolt up to the rear mounts to help carry and subdue any torque/twist
> > action. Also a brace on each side for the front mounts to preclude them
> > trying to move either. After we get everything done, we will put a FSII
> > addition to my MKIII web page.
> >
> > Richard Pike
> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> > FSII N582EF (582 Ed's Folly)
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Hey preacher,
> >>What structural mods are you doing?
> >>I'm also planning to use a 582 on my Firestar.
> >>
> >>Gene
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KOLB AIRCRAFT" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Norm Labhart |
Hi Tim,
You are correct. It is a very sad day.
It is a great loss to all of us kolbers.
We all grieve for Norm and his family and the passenger and are praying for
a complete recovery him.
Please keep them in your thoughts.
Take care Tim,
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gherkins Tim-rp3420" <rp3420(at)freescale.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
> Kolbers,
>
> I am really sad. This is a great loss to us kolbers. I will miss him.
>
> Tim Gherkins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay Stuart
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
>
> Here is the link to the newspaper article:
>
> http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
>
> Sadly,
> Clay Stuart
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KOLB AIRCRAFT" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horrible news |
Hi Rex,
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.
We really appreciate them as I know Norm's family does.
W are printing all messages an passing them to Dana, Norm's wife. They will
help comfort her in the days to come.
Again thank you Rex.
Take care.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Rodebush" <rrodebush(at)tema.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news
>
> This is very sad news. Norm was the factory test pilot and I believe
> was G.M. of TNK at one time. I met him about five years ago. He was
> always very courteous, kind and helpful. A gentleman in every sense of
> the word. I had the privilege of flying with him at the fly-in this
> summer. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family.
>
> Rex Rodebush
>
> From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Horrible news
>
>
> Just heard and saw on Lexington TV that Norm Labhart was killed today in
> the
> crash of the factory Mark IIIXtra.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KOLB AIRCRAFT" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Norm Labhart |
Hi Ken,
Thank you very much for your message.
All prayers are greatly appreciated by us and Norm's family.
Again thank you.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "kfackler" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
> May the god of their understanding remain close to the Labhart family.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=RSoj1Zt/dWfB7G4RzTQfS6qOU8tFBnCRtDfldNONf7YKuKW8gWHM1v1TKvpITpAYUZQ/q4QLj6eNuusmoGx7ThabHwKGMOVzK7SjYiKzVr/L4wPNG+U46UF7yMxWB750y/cjw7/UmrQlVpfhWnV5qTMc/x2O65ml3Sb0yIlnivA;
| From: | ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Kolb Extra crash |
We may never know what really happened, but there are a number of possible
scenarios when experienced pilots have this occur. There have been numerous
incidents similar to this one with the same results, and it can sneak up on any
of us. With two aboard, the EXTRA had a relatively high wing loading, and a
modestly high stall, 41mph. At mid day, approaching over wooded areas, strange
and unexpected air turbulence, wind shear, etc. is not uncommon, as we have all
experienced. If approaching at near stall, even airline pilots have been caught
in these conditions and were unable to recover. ( I try to keep a little
extra speed when approaching for landing over wooded areas around mid day, when
strange bumps start appearing. Scary!! )
In the EXTRA with a high thrust line and high wing loading, the most experienced
pilot couldn't recover from wind shear. It's almost like the proverbial
"act of God". A ballistic chute might have caught it if they were above 100-150
ft. I'm glad I now have one on the UltraStar. I believe the passenger had
recently inquired in the Kolb list asking if anyone knows of a used one for
sale, to be placed on the Kolb he is thinking of buying.
Just one thought of many I'm sure will be given.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Norm Labhart |
All,
We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls.
Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my
sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy
recovery for Chris.
Kind Regards
Mike the kiwi
UK Distributor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
> Here is the link to the newspaper article:
>
> http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
>
> Sadly,
> Clay Stuart
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Judy or Larry Gitt" <gittj(at)earthlink.net> |
Sorry, to hear the loss of one of us Kolb flyers , Maybe some one May have a picture
of Norm and some History of his life to pass on to us.
And Chris Davis, Get well with speed of light as im sure you wish the same.
are thoughts are with you.and the family's . Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there
about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's,
Rans S12/14, etc.
Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone
a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-(
Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore.
6063 would be acceptable.
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KOLB AIRCRAFT" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Boom tubes... |
Hi Jeremy,
Since you do not want the 6063T6 that we use, all I can suggest is that you
contact a metals manufacturer and ask for "Breather Quality" tubes in the
6061T6 and see if they an help you.
We were told that this was the "highest quality" tubing with the least dents
and scratches.
We order 2000' of each size from Kaiser, through TW Metals, and we purchase
the stock over a year time frame.
If you cannot do this, I do not have any other suggestions.
Take care Jeremy,
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us>
Subject: Kolb-List: Boom tubes...
>
> I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there
> about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's,
> Rans S12/14, etc.
>
> Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone
> a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-(
>
> Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore.
>
> 6063 would be acceptable.
>
>
> Jeremy Casey
> KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
> jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KOLB AIRCRAFT" <customersupport(at)tnkolbaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Norm Labhart |
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your sympathy and caring.
We are printing all messages and forwarding them to Dana, Norm's wife.
I know they will help comfort her in the days ahead.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Take care Mike,
Linda
PS
I talked with Donnie about your kits.
Patrick's kit is crated and ready to go.
Robert's kit will be picked up from powder coat tomorrow.
We will try to ship on Monday, 11/29, after our Thanksgiving holiday.
We will close at 12:00 noon tomorrow, Thursday and re-open on Monday for the
services for Norm.
Any questions before then, call Donnie.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
> All,
> We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls.
> Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my
> sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy
> recovery for Chris.
>
> Kind Regards
> Mike the kiwi
> UK Distributor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net>
> To:
> Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
>
> >
> > Here is the link to the newspaper article:
> >
> > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
> >
> > Sadly,
> > Clay Stuart
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
Linda,
Please pass on my heart felt condolences also. I have never met Norm but
know from the things I have heard and read that he was a fine gentleman,
father and husband. I was anticipating meeting him one day at the Kolb
fly-in (maybe next year). Now that won't happen so I pray that I will meet
him in Heaven one fine day. I will keep the family in my prayers.
Sincerely,
John Cooley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KOLB AIRCRAFT
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your sympathy and caring.
We are printing all messages and forwarding them to Dana, Norm's wife.
I know they will help comfort her in the days ahead.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Take care Mike,
Linda
PS
I talked with Donnie about your kits.
Patrick's kit is crated and ready to go.
Robert's kit will be picked up from powder coat tomorrow.
We will try to ship on Monday, 11/29, after our Thanksgiving holiday.
We will close at 12:00 noon tomorrow, Thursday and re-open on Monday for the
services for Norm.
Any questions before then, call Donnie.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
> All,
> We are sorry to hear the sad news of the accident at Chesnut Knolls.
> Although I never knew Norm or Chris, the Kolb family is a close one and my
> sympathy is with the family and friends of Norm, and I wish a speedy
> recovery for Chris.
>
> Kind Regards
> Mike the kiwi
> UK Distributor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)adelphia.net>
> To:
> Subject: Kolb-List: Norm Labhart
>
>
> >
> > Here is the link to the newspaper article:
> >
> > http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/10192582.htm
> >
> > Sadly,
> > Clay Stuart
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FSII mods for a 582 |
In a message dated 11/17/2004 6:39:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
For those who asked, the pictures of the cage mods are up-
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm
Scroll to the bottom of the page, click on "FSII Mods."
Got the web page; didn't see "FSII mods".
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Boom tubes... |
You might try www.metalsupermarket.com or just get one from TNK. You will
not find any cheap aluminum.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us>
Subject: Kolb-List: Boom tubes...
>
> I am looking for a source for 5" diameter 6061-T6 tubes .063 (or there
> about) wall thickness.Basically the same tube used on Drifter's, Kolb's,
> Rans S12/14, etc.
>
> Any help appreciated.have had no luck finding a source at all, let alone
> a cheap source, let alone convenient. ;-(
>
> Dillsburg doesn't stock them anymore.
>
> 6063 would be acceptable.
>
>
> Jeremy Casey
> KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
> jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
The sentiments which have been expressed after this sad accident demonstrates
the closeness to each other which everyone on this list feels.
Condolences from this sid eof the Atlantic.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Good morning all:
For your info, here is the obituary for Norm. I especially like this
picture. A good way to remember a flying friend:
http://www.londonfuneralhome.com/obituary_2.htm
Got out of the woods last night. Am loading the rig and heading for
London this morning.
Talked to Dana Labhart last night when I got home. She is doing well
considering the current situation. Dana is a wonderful lady. She was
my right hand "gal" during my failed flight to Alaska in 2000. Could
not have gotten along without her.
This whole situation does not seem real, especially when we lose a
good friend.
Take care,
john h
MKIIIc
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FSII mods for a 582 |
In a message dated 11/18/2004 1:23:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
Try it again. Hold down the "Ctrl" button and hit "refresh."
Thanks, that worked.
I see you inverted the rubber engine mounts; was that to get clearance for
the bolt & nut you added ?
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you John for posting the info on the funeral home, For those of us many
miles away it is difficult to catch up on the details. Even though I had
only known Norm for less than a year, because I had worked the last 2 major=20EAA
shows I feel that Norm and I had become good friends. Norm had also done the
test flights on the floats I helped designed. I cannot express in words the
loss that I feel and I know many others feel the same. I was glad to see that
a
fund was set up for Norm's children. Norm gave so much of his time teaching
others to fly Kolb AC safely that it is a nice way for us to give something
back. EXPRESSIONS OF SYMPATHY MAY BE MADE TO THE LABHART CHILDREN'S FUND,=20C/O
NATIONAL CITY BANK, 535 E. BROADWAY, LOUISVILLE, KY 40202.=A0=A0=A0
Steve Boetto
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello to all,
For those of you that are interested in donating to the Labhart Children's
Fund the details are as follows.
National City Bank
535 East Broadway
Louisville, KY 40202
Labhart Children's Fund
Account # 29299886
Phone # 502-581-4120
Ask for Joshua Mcfarland if you have questions or need help.
Steve Boetto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk3/912 Flight Report |
On 18, Nov 2004, at 2:10 PM, H MITCHELL wrote:
>
>
> Yester day I did a little Bondo work on the nose fairing and went
> flying afterwards. I was stunned to find that my Alt, IAS and ROC were
> all w-a-a-y off. Post-flight inspection showed that even a slight
> (very slight) disruption of the airflow around one of my static ports
> can cause this problem.
Being a natural born scrounge artist, when I created my pitot-static
system I dug into my HVAC
bin and came up with a static probe from an industrial air handler. I
twinned that with a gob-o-epoxy
onto a piece of thinwall stainless tube that I bent to shape. It
stands off about 3-1/2" from the
bottom of my handmade nosebowl. Works fine and even survived my off
field wheat stubble
landing this fall. I put two little rubber caps on them when parked.
-BB, waiting for a yamaha venture 1300 radiator from ebay do not
archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Pierzina" <planecrazzzy(at)lycos.com> |
Hey Guys...
I talked to Norm a few times...about gear box ratio and prop dia. ,
He helped me with my decision, and I thought it was nice that he took the time
to explain it to me...
He wrote the "list" and said that he liked the Web Site that I made
( my Firestar II builders site ) and even offered to send me a free hat....
I thought that was pretty nice considering that he didn't even really know me
at all...
The world can't afford to lose people like him , because there are just
too few of them.
Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN FSII/ 381PM
My Web Site:
http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html
Sometimes you just have to take the leap
and build your wings on the way down...
Gotta Fly...
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FSII mods for a 582 |
In a message dated 11/18/2004 2:00:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
Not apparent in the photo, but due to the use of an "E" box, it was
necessary not only to invert the mounts, but also to get the Kolbra mount
extensions from Kolb, the engine has to sit much further up than ideal.
Do the "E" & "C" boxes have different heights? We are having no problem
running a 66" prop with our "C" box & mounts in the normal mode.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=beta; d=gmail.com;
b=pDWD9nGRk68jVRTxujJmR6Tmy/wVFUR/CQJsZ5vPmlRaQKT9BfuYKrpXsesHXHRjHljSWS80XiCCtu2/gtV/389wVDctUNm8o81sR0DxGqW65GjDoK5ejFgOF1YPD+1TJ/XUUJHDo+6CnKsw/Be1JeCi7UWpoWAsI7ePG9EwK0UReceived:
by 10.38.79.36 with SMTP id c36mr22148rnb;
| From: | Aviator Guy <aviatorguy(at)gmail.com> |
I spoke with Norm several times on Monday Nov. 15 the day of the
horrible accident. The last message I got from him was around 11:20
AM just before he headed out to Kolb's for a little flight over lunch.
He was the same old Norm just like always happy and cheerful. I've
known Norm for a couple of years now and have to say that he is one
person that I have the utmost respect for. He was a really neat guy
that was always more than willing to help someone out or teach them
something new. Norm you will be greatly missed, you have a wonderful
family and more friends than most people could ever imagine. We are
all still in awe as to how something like this could happen to such a
person as Norm. I know I will truly miss you as will all your other
friends. My sympathies go out to Dana and the rest of the Labhart
family.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Test: do not answer |
MIME_HTML_MOSTLY(at)matronics.com, BODY:, Multipart(at)matronics.com,
message(at)matronics.com, mostly(at)matronics.com, text/html(at)matronics.com,
MIME(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS Hirth 65 hp 2706 |
I have a Hirth 2706, with less than 4 hours run in time, since new, $2600.00.
I am located near Cleveland,Ohio, and would prefer a local pick up, or will
meet you within a 100 mile radius. It is fan cooled, hand start, complete with
latest style muffler. Ill health forces sale. Phone Nick at 330-225-7499, or
cell # 216-402-4566
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Vortex Generators |
Kolb Friends -
I'm thinking of installing VGs on my Mark-3.
This has been discussed several times on the List in the past, and there is
a great wealth of info in the archives for me to follow. However, I have
one question: For VGs on the wing, should they be installed on the ribs or
in the valleys?
I've seen posts in favor of each. I'm leaning toward "on the ribs," as this
would allow me to attach the VG with a single 3/32" rivet, in addition to
the tape. Makes for a more secure installation this way.
Any recommendations?
Many thanks -
Dennis Kirby
Verner-powered in
Cedar Crest, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FS Kiev Hot Prop |
I have for sale a Kiev "HOT PROP", in like new condition, $475.00,plus actual
shipping. It came off a Trike with a Rotax 503. I am located near Cleveland,
Ohio.Ill health forces sale. Call Nick at 330-225-7499, or cell # 216-402-4566.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)cox.net> |
this is off topic,,,but does anyone know where I can find plans for moving christmas
yard decoration?
thanks ron w in west tx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ul15rhb(at)juno.com" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com> |
I have learned that TNK's London KY strip is on plateau and a few feet before the
threshold drops off down a hill. Is this true?
While landing at that end, if there isn't sufficient altitude to make the strip,
it looks like the side of a hill (before the threshold) is the only choice.
Is this true?
One would think that anyone flying out of a strip like this would always have enough
altitude to make it, then slip it in as a general practice.
Is there is an alternate choice for a pilot if the threshold isn't made instead
of going into the side of that hill or the trees?
There would be a strong desire to "stretch the glide" should the engine want to
quit when the throttle is closed.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Hi Dennis,
I have fitted the little perspex VG's from the VG Guy, 'Harrison Designs'.
I have conducted a full flight test schedule with them on our Xtra for UK
approval and they are simply amazing, small light and inexpensive and you
can hardly see them.
They are fitted 2 in each valley at a 3 inch spacing and stuck to the
fabric.
They come with full fitting instructions etc.
They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get off the
ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
I think that they need to be fitted in the valley as the air flows over the
wing and takes the shortest route which means the flow will be from the rib
into the valley.
Hope this helps.
Mike the Kiwi.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Kolb-List: Vortex Generators
>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> I'm thinking of installing VGs on my Mark-3.
>
> This has been discussed several times on the List in the past, and there
> is
> a great wealth of info in the archives for me to follow. However, I have
> one question: For VGs on the wing, should they be installed on the ribs or
> in the valleys?
>
> I've seen posts in favor of each. I'm leaning toward "on the ribs," as
> this
> would allow me to attach the VG with a single 3/32" rivet, in addition to
> the tape. Makes for a more secure installation this way.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Many thanks -
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Verner-powered in
> Cedar Crest, NM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
....................................>
>I've seen posts in favor of each. I'm leaning toward "on the ribs," as this
>would allow me to attach the VG with a single 3/32" rivet, in addition to
>the tape. Makes for a more secure installation this way.
>
>Any recommendations?
>
>Many thanks -
>
>Dennis Kirby
>Verner-powered in
>Cedar Crest, NM
>
Dennis,
The VG,s that I put on the FireFly are located in between the ribs. They
were attached with very thin double sided tape, and some electricians tape
was used to prevent the front of the VG's from lifting. They have been on
the wing for over four years and none have come loose during 139 hours in
the air.
From initial testing, I found that VG's worked better in the hollows between
the ribs. By using the double sided tape, one is not adding more holes in
the ribs, and if you change your mind as to where you want to locate them,
they can easily be removed and placed in a new location.
The nice thing about the double fin trapezoidal shaped base VG's is that
they provide a broad contact base between the VG and the fabric. This keeps
the VG from working the fabric around the attachment area as much as with
the single fin VG's. Also, they are easy and inexpensive to make.
If you decide to use one of the larger (wider, taller, and longer) double fin
VG designs, it may be necessary to use the rivet and to place them on the ribs.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
I use the little AL trapezoid VGs mounted with double-sided rug tape.
Dang near impossible to remove them. Been on several years. Oh yeah,
they are each mounted in the valleys between the ribs, and certainly do
reduce stall/landing speeds.
Bob N. FireFly 070
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
In a message dated 11/19/2004 11:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil writes:
Kolb Friends -
I'm thinking of installing VGs on my Mark-3.
This has been discussed several times on the List in the past, and there is
a great wealth of info in the archives for me to follow. However, I have
one question: For VGs on the wing, should they be installed on the ribs or
in the valleys?
I've seen posts in favor of each. I'm leaning toward "on the ribs," as this
would allow me to attach the VG with a single 3/32" rivet, in addition to
the tape. Makes for a more secure installation this way.
Any recommendations?
I designed my VG's to go on the rib; I figured they would work better with
the support under them.
If you are using my design, you can attach with "Goop" instead of tape. They
will be permanent, though.
If you do the above, I would suggest first cutting the VG's in two, then trim
the bottom width to 1/2" & glue them on using a cardboard "jig" to properly
space the two halves.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS Kiev Hot Prop |
In a message dated 11/19/2004 11:52:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
W8IRQ(at)aol.com writes:
I have for sale a Kiev "HOT PROP", in like new condition, $475.00,plus actual
shipping. It came off a Trike with a Rotax 503. I am located near Cleveland,
Ohio.Ill health forces sale. Call Nick at 330-225-7499, or cell #
216-402-4566.
Maybe if you told us diameter, # of blades, direction of rotation, etc. you'd
more likely get a response.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Subject: Kolb-List: Vortex Generators
>
>
> Kolb Friends -
>
> I'm thinking of installing VGs on my Mark-3.
>
> This has been discussed several times on the List in the past, and there
> is
> a great wealth of info in the archives for me to follow. However, I have
> one question: For VGs on the wing, should they be installed on the ribs or
> in the valleys?
>
Dennis,
I can't tell you which is best- valleys or ribs, but I can tell you that
mine are on the ribs and they have been there for two years with just the
sticky tape. I don't believe that I would use a rivet, appears to be
unnecessary. Of course my Firestar doesn't go all that fast. :-(
Larry
Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rotax 447 on Orig FireStar |
Ralph B. & Other Kolbers
Ralph,
Thanks again for the advice to cut the wire on the tach to make it work
properly.
I've been flying my Original Firestar for ten and a half years now and have
put 460 hours on it and the Rotax 377 engine. Recently I checked for carbon and
its getting a build up, so instead of decarboning this time, I decided to
swap for a used 447 engine I had bought several years ago.
Wow! What a difference those extra 5 hp make. Not only does it climb
greater (as if I really need that) but at 5000 RPM I am getting about 60 to 65
MPH
airspeed, whereas with the 377 I was getting 50 to 55. Although the two
engines are very similar, the 447 seems to be slightly rougher and louder. The
377
was a smoother, quieter, sweeter running engine. I'm still getting used to
the difference in sound and vibes.
Bill Varnes
Original FireStar
Audubon, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
At 01:43 PM 11/19/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Dennis,
>I have fitted the little perspex VG's from the VG Guy, 'Harrison Designs'.
>I have conducted a full flight test schedule with them on our Xtra for UK
>approval and they are simply amazing, small light and inexpensive and you
>can hardly see them.
>They are fitted 2 in each valley at a 3 inch spacing and stuck to the
>fabric.
>They come with full fitting instructions etc.
>They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get off the
>ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
I did the same thing with about the same results. - actually 44 on each
wing - that is what the template called for -
two between each false rib - so I just followed the instructions.
They are pretty small and don't have any sharp pointed edges like the
"homemade"
ones do. ....But they cost a dollar apiece - airplane stuff cost more - right?
Here's what they look like.
http://possums.photosite.com/vgs/
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=Lpo6wE28kqisQG1jbc1RVoJ++HLvWXy0hTQhRHZZZPF4H0EBqqKHYPyDzphyCcUKetF3l9mrlMHmauLgCYwk5xyPxsFOpPA8PeE17orcrUe9f0ZVr2KSUbvfEL33C4bhGMr1LXMy33VjkXP0V1QMdQMcEjiNR4zFk5ip/B3ssnI;
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Yes, our best success has been to place the VGs in the "valleys" . They work fantastic
on fabric covered wings.
In fact I just recently got a report from a fellow that did very accurate takeoff-distance
tests and after installing my VGs he consistently got 25% - 30% shorter
takeoffs.
Joa
www.landshorter.com
Silver Fern Microlights Ltd wrote:
Hi Dennis,
I have fitted the little perspex VG's from the VG Guy, 'Harrison Designs'.
I have conducted a full flight test schedule with them on our Xtra for UK
approval and they are simply amazing, small light and inexpensive and you
can hardly see them.
They are fitted 2 in each valley at a 3 inch spacing and stuck to the
fabric.
They come with full fitting instructions etc.
They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get off the
ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
I think that they need to be fitted in the valley as the air flows over the
wing and takes the shortest route which means the flow will be from the rib
into the valley.
Hope this helps.
Mike the Kiwi.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted C <trc1917(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these affect
the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, does it creat
problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph?
Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 447 on Orig FireStar |
| From: | ul15rhb(at)juno.com |
Hi Bill,
The 447 is not as smooth as the 377, but I liked the idea of more speed
at less RPM. This will make the engine last longer, IF carbon buildup is
kept to a minimum using synthetic oil. This is why we ran the piss out of
them in the old days. Times have changed (in more ways than one) and
there are new ways to eliminate the carbon without running it so high.
I hated to part with that 377 after 12 years of good flying, but the 447
is proving itself reliable too. I've had it 6 years and have put 348
hours on it. It's still looks like a brand new engine on the inside
without an overhaul.
Ralph Burlingame
Original Firestar
18 years flying it
>
> Ralph B. & Other Kolbers
>
> Ralph,
> Thanks again for the advice to cut the wire on the tach to make it
> work
> properly.
>
> I've been flying my Original Firestar for ten and a half years now
> and have
> put 460 hours on it and the Rotax 377 engine. Recently I checked for
> carbon and
> its getting a build up, so instead of decarboning this time, I
> decided to
> swap for a used 447 engine I had bought several years ago.
>
> Wow! What a difference those extra 5 hp make. Not only does it
> climb
> greater (as if I really need that) but at 5000 RPM I am getting
> about 60 to 65 MPH
> airspeed, whereas with the 377 I was getting 50 to 55. Although the
> two
> engines are very similar, the 447 seems to be slightly rougher and
> louder. The 377
> was a smoother, quieter, sweeter running engine. I'm still getting
> used to
> the difference in sound and vibes.
>
> Bill Varnes
> Original FireStar
> Audubon, NJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
For those who inquired, here is additional info. It is a model 273,3 bladed,
right hand rotation, and will handle 40 to 80 HP.Additional info may be
obtained at: http://www.aero-sports.com/bb/hotprop/hotprop.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What Grass Seed Do I Need to Plant? |
Jack;
One of the easiest, and most comprehensive
methods of determining the seed that you'll
want planted there would be to contact your
local office of the nearest college.
Most colleges have some kind of agricultural
division & they will be able to give you more
direct help than someone like me (in Arizona).
In previous years, I had done this exact thing,
and received more help and direction than I
had ever thought possible.
Good luck, Blue Skies,
George Bass
P. O. Box 770
Camp Verde, AZ
86322
USUA #30899
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
At 06:42 AM 11/20/2004, you wrote:
>
>got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these
>affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed,
>does it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph?
>Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan.
Hey Ted, how's that grandkid?
I haven't noticed any difference in top end speed, but if it slowed me down
3 miles an hour - I probably wouldn't be able to tell.
According to "Landshorter.com"
------------------
Q: Will it lower my cruise speed?
A: On most sport type planes you will see NO difference in your cruise
speed if you place your VG's on the "sweet spot" of the airfoil.
We include all the instructions and templates you need to find this spot.
-------------------
I think the "home made ones" would work just as well, but I don't like the
way they look..
Here are some pictures of 88 of the "lexan" VGs on my plane.
See if you notice them.
They are installed about 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge.
Click "view the slide show" to see all the pictures
.... and I know my plane needs washing.
http://possums.photosite.com/vgs/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Cooley" <johnc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
Hi Ted,
I don't normally get involved in threads that I have no experience in but I
see you are not getting any responses to your question. What I remember from
past post on this subject is that the vortex generators have no effect on
high speed flight. They seem to be more common on higher speed planes than
ours which supports this in my mind. Some have said that they make the plane
maneuver better and have a more solid feel in normal flight situations in
addition to helping lower the stall speed.
Later,
John Cooley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted C
Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators
got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these
affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed, does
it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph?
Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Identifying older model Kolb |
Folks,
I may have an opportunity to purchase an old kit but they may be few
missing a few items - yet to be determined.
First I need to identify the model it is - it's an older model produced by
the "Old" Kolb company, a K something.
If I were to need any parts does new Kolb company support it?
Unique things like formed or welded parts would be the items, replacing
missing basic hardware would not be a problem.
The is also a question about running a 503 on it - would it need any mods,
for a 503.
Is there something about 5 v/s 7 wing ribs?
Thanks, jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | E box Motor mounts |
Good VG pictures Possum, but what interested me even more is that you have
a E box with the starter on the bottom. Can you let us see how the
engine/gearbox/starter fits on the engine mounts? Some pictures of the
engine and motor mounts?
Thanks
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
> Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
>
> got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these
> affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed,
> does
> it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90 mph?
> Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan.
>
Hi,
The only time I can go that fast in my Firestar is in a dive, so I
couldn't answer your question, but I can speculate if that counts. :-) They
improved my performance throughout the entire range of flight and maneuvers.
It holds turns without falling out or better still without over turning and
going too steep. I wouldn't be without them.
Larry
Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying older model Kolb |
Jerb,
There was a long thread abt 5 vs 7 rib wings. And past posts have said
that TNK doesn't support older Kolbs made by Homer, unless the parts are
the same. Ck the archives for more data on these.
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: E box Motor mounts |
At 07:47 PM 11/20/2004, you wrote:
>
>Good VG pictures Possum, but what interested me even more is that you have
>a E box with the starter on the bottom. Can you let us see how the
>engine/gearbox/starter fits on the engine mounts? Some pictures of the
>engine and motor mounts?
>Thanks
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
The "E" gear box or a "C" (same 3.48 ratio) creates a lot more thrust with
a 3 blade prop
than a "B" box ....... but mine's been modified - a lot.
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modrearframe.jpg
http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/covering.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
>
>Hi,
> The only time I can go that fast in my Firestar is in a dive, so I
>couldn't answer your question, but I can speculate if that counts. :-) They
>improved my performance throughout the entire range of flight and maneuvers.
>It holds turns without falling out or better still without over turning and
>going too steep. I wouldn't be without them.
>Larry
>Oregon
I agree with that too. It's amazing how far I can stick the nose up without
the plane stalling.
I put mine on with the double stick tape because I figured they wouldn't
really work or not make
enough difference to tell. Mine would fly pretty slow anyway - so when the
VGs lowered my stall speed
by that much, I was impressed.
I used a little thicker doublestick tape than they recommend (3M black),
but you couldn't pull them
off with pliers. However mineral spirts will loosen the tape and dissolve
the glue if I ever want
to move them or take them off.
I don't know how they would work on a Slingshot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ElleryWeld(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 10,000 ft MSL in an original firestar |
Well Today I finally had a chance to fly again and my mission was to get to
10,000 ft MSL
I watched the thermometer it started out at 25 degrees this morning and
gradually climbed to 40 degrees about 11:15 I decided that if I was going to make
it before it started to cool down for the evening again I had better get going
so off I went to stretch my wings again and my wife asked me where I was going
to fly to, and I told her I had an appointment at 10,000 ft and she thought I
was nuts as usual, I dressed as if I was going ice fishing it was a nice
clear day no clouds in sight and not much wind it didn't take long to get to 2000
ft but it seemed like eternity to get to 6000 and seemed like I was going no
where the temp was getting colder as I climbed maintaining 50 on the ASI and
5000 on the RPM and finally I reached 8000 ft and was having thoughts of
attempting another day because it was really getting colder by then, but in the
back
of my mind I was thinking well I am almost there stick it out a while longer
and I did finally I have completed what I set out to accomplish for the day
10,000 Ft MSL Yea Ha shivering you can see the whole from up here but its to
cold to hang around here to take in the wonderful view for to long so I
descended back to mother earth visited a few small air strips in the neiborhood
and
then made my way back home and my wife said I guess you had a good time ha you
looked like a speck in the sky she was out hunting sitting in her tree stand
watching me climb like an eagle in the thermals I cant wait for warmer weather
to go back and spend more time at that altitude and really getting a good
look at everything below
Thanks for the
encouragement I enjoyed the idea
in Maine,
original Firestar
Ellery
Batchelder Jr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying older model Kolb |
Morning Jerb, if you do an archive search all that stuff is there. Do not
archive
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar I 19LBG 377 BRS
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Identifying older model Kolb
>
> Folks,
> I may have an opportunity to purchase an old kit but they may be few
> missing a few items - yet to be determined.
> First I need to identify the model it is - it's an older model produced by
> the "Old" Kolb company, a K something.
>
> If I were to need any parts does new Kolb company support it?
> Unique things like formed or welded parts would be the items, replacing
> missing basic hardware would not be a problem.
>
> The is also a question about running a 503 on it - would it need any mods,
> for a 503.
>
> Is there something about 5 v/s 7 wing ribs?
>
> Thanks, jerb
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | differential brakes and fuel |
Looking through the archives, I found a gentleman who used two handles on
the control stick for the mechanical brakes. Has anyone else done this and
does anyone make a handle like that? Also, is there a good location to find
a plastic clear 10 gallon tank (I like to visually see the fuel level) for a
Mk II rather than going with two 5 gallon tanks?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Hi Ted, we have not noticed any slower cruise speed on our Xtra.
Mike the Kiwi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted C" <trc1917(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
> got a quick question. Might have been answered before but --- do these
> affect the faster airspeeds? I mean, if it lowers your landing speed,
> does it creat problems at the faster speeds of say, a SlingShot at 85-90
> mph?
> Seems there would be some kind of bad news at higher speeds. Ted Cowan.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: differential brakes and fuel |
I have a twinstar, much like the mark ll. I put a 10 gal. take inside the
cage but on top of the boom tube. it works just fine.
mark
s.e. minnesota.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: differential brakes and fuel |
>"Bob and Jenn B"
Bob, sent this to you direct.
You can get a nice light weight 10 Gallon Poly tank from Quad Aircraft,
manufacturer of the Challenger. If I recall right it cost me $104 plus
shipping.
The tank has a sump molded in the bottom - a filler neck with screw on top
along with a port on the top which is used for a fuel pickup probe. Mine
came with the pre-made pickup tube which I didn't use. Instead I made a
plug the dia. of the port (5/8" dia if I recall right) and larger lip on
one end (3/4"). Drill holes thru it for the 1/4" OD main fuel pick up, a
1/4" OD vent tube and a 1/8" OD ny-flo tube for the primer pickup
tubes. (Layout of hole position is important.) The vent tube ends just
inside the plug - the main fuel pickup ends just at the level of the sump,
and the primer pick up tube ends a little above the main pick up tube. The
plug can be made with a couple of ridges and held in by a radiator type
hose clamp. Note that the primer pick up is so small that 1/8" aluminium
tubing is too weak to use, the ny-flo sold by Aircraft Spruce works
good. All tubes are epoxied in place. This manifold as I call it makes it
a little safer for the primer pick up by not having to insert a tee in the
mail fuel having a fragile 1/8" dia. side port for the primer pick up
connection which can easily break off or crack allowing the main fuel line
to suck air. The vent tube should have 1/4" dia tubing run down side of
the tank to the bottom of it and then vented over board - this reduces the
potential of the vent leaking fuel if in the inverted position. Hope this
info helps, jerb
http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/
Quad City Ultralight Aircraft Corp.
Shipping:
3810 34th Street
Moline, IL 61265
Mailing:
PO BOX 370
Moline, IL 61266-0370
(309)764-3515 phone
(309)762-3920 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Hi BB/Gang:
| Has anyone heard how Norm's passenger is doing?
I got home a couple hours ago. Departed London, KY, about dark Friday
afternoon, after having a suprise dinner with List Member Wil Uribe.
Was good to see Wil and catch up on old and new times a bit. Looking
forward, both of us, already, for next year's UnPlanned/UnOrganized
Kolb Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah.
The latest info I have on Chris Davis was from Bruce Chesnut. It was
valid as of Thur evening. Chris had been upgraded from critical to
serious and was not conscious. I know that is old news, but that is
the best I have as of now. If I find out anything new, I will post it
to the Kolb List post haste.
The trip to London was sad but also rewarding. I gave me a chance to
share my sorrow with friends and family, and make closure with Norm.
I have no further information on the accident. Speculation would be
futile and unfair. I don't intend to try to figure out what went
wrong.
From top to bottom, TNK personnel are taking Norm's loss very hard.
Bruce announced at a get together Friday, his first reaction after
Norm's accident, was to plow up the air strip. Then after some
thought, decided that was not the right thing to do. Instead, he is
naming the air strip LABHART FIELD, in honor of Norm. Chesnut Knolls
Aviation Foundation will remain the same. Future sectionals will
indicate the air strip at CKAF as LABHART FIELD.
Good to be home. I am still buzzing from being on the road for so
long behind the old Cummins Diesel. The highways are crowded and a
hostile environment to try and survive in. I prefer to fly my little
Kolb MKIIIc, rather than dice it out with a bunch of novice NASCAR
drivers that have no respect of a truck and 5th wheel. :-)
Time to get ready for Thanksgiving. Need to go check on my bird.
Weather in not conducive to flying at the present time. Haven't
looked at the weather to see when I can get my dose of aviating.
Take care,
john h
hauck's holler, alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | group-buy on poly tanks |
| From: | Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com> |
11/22/2004 03:16:35 PM
Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock MKiii,
and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either way
would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know if
they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
some experiments.
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=W5ZTgAgtXjgtenZfoC1I8nm60eHIrDcndmGYKWE+Ap26BuqY6XDMOUj7kzRCeNMtF3Ky4g0S+uNsIRIzQUhgoRm8M0qqQgViD/7JPgd8ovukshmVQcJQQQ2AfoEpiZg0GofQRUjS31v70yFaazxMzguTTRPCJtyjhMwgWluZZqc;
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
Hi all,
First off, I got a heads up from Rusty on the terrible news of the
crash and loss at TNK. This is real hard news to hear.
I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
placed them 11" back from LE. I also used carpet dbl stick tape, and
after the one and only 30 min test flight at least 2 VGs had chosen an
early departure from the flight. :)
What I may have done wrong:
I decided to put a coat of car wax on my wings before putting on the
VGs, because a) this was maybe 6 months after completion of rebuild and
the wings had never been washed or waxed, and b) one must work around
VGs when washing/waxing. Anyway, I suppose this was part of the easily
departing vgs. Note-- standard polytone/stits covering.
From other's experience, I probably didn't put enf VGs on to get an
effect. Guessing back, I'd say the spacing was about 12" between them.
Someday I'll give it another whirl, but I find my Kolb time is usually
"i wanna go fly", as my build/tinker time is already pretty taken by my
other project.
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get
off the
| ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
|
| Mike the Kiwi.
Hi Mike/Gang:
6 mph stall reduction is a significant amount.
Is that 6 mph reduction gained while clean or with full flaperons? at
altitude or in ground effect? two up or solo?
How much quicker does the old MKIIIx levitate with the VG's?
In what way is the flare made "much better"?
What do the VG's do to the normal stall characteristics of the Kolb
wing?
I am interested in VG's, although I do not see a place for them on my
antiquated MKIIIc. Recently, while flying solo with 15 gal fuel on
board, my MKIIIc was stalling between 30 and 35 mph in ground effect
at 410 feet ASL.
Immediately, some of you automatically decide I am "against" the use
of VG's because I ask questions about them, and state I do not intend
to use them. Please do not prejudge my interests in what makes them
work and how they will improve or degrade safety and performance of
our Kolb airplanes. Just trying to learn. I understand Mike the Kiwi
has done exhaustive study and tests in order to pass British "FAA"
folks to certify the MKIIIx in Great Britain. Hopefully, he can pass
some of this information along to us on the other side of the pond.
Take care,
john h
MKIIIc (M3-011)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: London strip |
I first f lew at London with John and Mspfer. There is an optical
delusion as you come in where the side of the hill looks like a flat part of
the runway. Surprised me but would not affect a regular user of the strip
----- Original Message -----
From: <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: London strip
>
>
> I have learned that TNK's London KY strip is on plateau and a few feet
before the threshold drops off down a hill. Is this true?
>
> While landing at that end, if there isn't sufficient altitude to make the
strip, it looks like the side of a hill (before the threshold) is the only
choice. Is this true?
>
> One would think that anyone flying out of a strip like this would always
have enough altitude to make it, then slip it in as a general practice.
>
> Is there is an alternate choice for a pilot if the threshold isn't made
instead of going into the side of that hill or the trees?
>
> There would be a strong desire to "stretch the glide" should the engine
want to quit when the throttle is closed.
>
> Ralph Burlingame
> Original Firestar
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
G`day Mick,
If the two Kolbs are to be in the UK by mid December, the date which you
suggested to Mike Handley, they should be about to be put on a boat by now.
Or already on. Is there any news?
Is there anything which I should be looking to purchase at Telford?. I
shall be there on Saturday. Instruments, Intercoms/radio etc., They often
have special offers of which I should take advantage.
I am going to Sun `n ` fun in April. Anything I should wait until then to
purchase?
How are approvals going? Vortex Generators, bigger tanks, Jabiru engine
etc., I am still aiming for a flying machine up and running by Easter.
Sad news about the Kolb pilot killing himself and putting his passenger in
hospital. Probably turn out to be a heart attack or something rather than an
aircraft fault, but to take this to a personal and detached level, is this
going to affect the despatch dates of the kits?
See you Saturday at Telford but I would like some comments before then..
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
They work fantastic on fabric covered wings.
|
| In fact I just recently got a report from a fellow that did very
accurate takeoff-distance tests and after installing my VGs he
consistently got 25% - 30% shorter takeoffs.
|
| Joa
Joa/Gang:
That is an amazing improvement. Any better and he would be hovering.
;-)
What kind of aircraft are we talking about?
If it is not a Kolb aircraft, how does it compare to our Kolbs'
performance?
Do you have any other information about this test other than
"fantastic" results?
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
Hi, this all reminds me of a story.
My Challenger is pretty thirsty, 16 litres per hour. Once when flying some distance
with my 10 US Gall tanks I took a spare 25 litre tank on the back seat. I
have no side filler to the tank so I have to use a pump, which I also have to
take with me. Sitting on my spare tank pumping away a couple wandered up and
said that they dont see many Challengers in England, but there were a lot in Florida
where they had lived for some time. Further conversation followed and it
turned out that they knew a guy with whom I had stayed near Lake Wales sevetral
years before when I wanted to fly an amphibian for which this chap was the
dealer. Not only that but they had the guy staying with them in the UK only the
weekend before.
Another coincidence. Many years ago I diverted while on holiday in France to visit
the factory and to fly an amphibian biplane called a `Petrel`. it was quite
an experience, dropping down onto the waters of the Gulf de Morbihan and then
landing on the airfield at Vannes/Mucon.
Visiting Sun `n `Fun a couple of years later I was having a drink in the bar of
the hotel while waiting for a table for dinner. The guy drinking next to me was
the pilot of the Petrel who had flown with me in France. Small aviating world,
aint it?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
Hi everyone,
sorry that my last post about kit deliveries was anadvertently sent to the list
instead of to Kiwimick personally.
This list works the opposite way round to other lists which I am on and hitting
`reply` goes to the whole list instead of the individual.
Sorry
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Giovanni Day" <gde01(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | group-buy on poly tanks |
Jim,
I ran across another experimental group who had done this. I do
not know the particulars but have contact info and will check into it. I
do remember the other project ended up with a 22 gal tank. If we had
enough interest we might also get TNK involved. I would think if we
could get enough orders together, it would be a no brainer. Even more so
if the design would work for more than the MKIIIC and extra. I would be
willing to spear head such a project and collaborate on a design if
there is enough interest. I could even put up a web site for the
project. Those on the list just need to let me know.
So lets make it official. Any MKIII owner interested in
investing in such a project say "I". Also, if it were possible to make a
tank/s that could serve other Kolb owners also, signify your interest by
stating "I" and your model. At this point cost is impossible to
calculate so I am just looking for interested owners who do have a need
for more fuel on board.
Giovanni
MKIII/912 80566
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Gerken
Subject: Kolb-List: group-buy on poly tanks
Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks,
but, GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a
stock MKiii, and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or
two, either way would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly
tank molding business so we might understand the costs per tank and the
mold cost to split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have
two 7.5 gallon tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but
taller. I don't know if
they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
some experiments.
Jim Gerken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic" <vicw(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Ten Gallon Tanks |
On my Firstar I have two tandem 5 gallon tanks. I have them plumbed so that
the rear tank empties first and when it is empty, the front tank supplies
the gas. This way, if I want to take a short trip, I just fill the front
tank. If I want to take a long trip I fill both tanks. Also by having the
rear tank empty completely before using gas from the front tank, the center
of gravity moves closer to the center as the gas is used up.
I believe the tanks in the MK II are side-by-side so I don't know if the
special plumbing would be an advantage on the MK II.
Vic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic" <vicw(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | Differential Braking |
I mounted two brake handles on my control stick in an attempt to have
differential braking. I used bicycle brake parts and some home-made parts
to make the handles. I have drum brakes but the drum brakes are "a false
sense of security". I am in the process of building a set of disk brakes to
replace the drums. Hope to have them installed this week. The disk brakes
will same me 12 pounds.
Without a break-away tail wheel, I am not sure the differential braking is
worth the trouble but I may find the disk brakes are effective enough to
assist in turning the Kolb. Right now I need a Wal-Mart parking lot to do a
180.
If anybody else is working on disk brakes, I would like to exchange ideas.
Vic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
I tried them at first with 11 per wing and they didn't do much.
Once I loaded it up with one per rib/false rib I got great results.
They might do better in the valleys, but they do work great atop the ribs.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Hi all,
>First off, I got a heads up from Rusty on the terrible news of the
>crash and loss at TNK. This is real hard news to hear.
>
>I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
>unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
>FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
>that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
>
>I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
>used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
>rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
>placed them 11" back from LE. I also used carpet dbl stick tape, and
>after the one and only 30 min test flight at least 2 VGs had chosen an
>early departure from the flight. :)
>
>What I may have done wrong:
>I decided to put a coat of car wax on my wings before putting on the
>VGs, because a) this was maybe 6 months after completion of rebuild and
>the wings had never been washed or waxed, and b) one must work around
>VGs when washing/waxing. Anyway, I suppose this was part of the easily
>departing vgs. Note-- standard polytone/stits covering.
>
> >From other's experience, I probably didn't put enf VGs on to get an
>effect. Guessing back, I'd say the spacing was about 12" between them.
> Someday I'll give it another whirl, but I find my Kolb time is usually
>"i wanna go fly", as my build/tinker time is already pretty taken by my
>other project.
>
>=====
>http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: group-buy on poly tanks |
With just a few minor mods, (welded a couple small steel tube braces in the
tank area) I was able to fit in two 6 gallon red outboard boat tanks like
Wal Mart sells. And since they were in at an angle, each held about 6.5 -
6.7gallons.
I went to the present system having 15 gallons more to increase baggage
space than to have extra fuel.
Anyway, the 13 gallon capacity was about enough for most things.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
>GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock MKiii,
>and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either way
>would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
>business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
>split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
>tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know if
>they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
>some experiments.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
At 04:21 PM 11/22/2004, you wrote:
>
>I thought I'd jump in on the VG thing cuz it is somewhat of an
>unresolved but back burner interest item to me. I installed VGs on my
>FS KXP but got no detectable difference in performance. (I imagined
>that I got a wing drop at stall, but that is uncertain.)
>
>I made VGs along the lines of that used by Jack Hart here. However, I
>used fewer of them. I put one every other rib valley (includes false
>rib valleys) -- about 12 total per wing if I recall correctly -- and
>placed them 11" back from LE.
-----------------------------------------------
From www.landshorter.com
Q: It's obvious that all those little "wings" must add some drag, why
don't they slow you down?
A: Good question. Without going into too much crazy aerodynamic theory
just visualize how the little micro VG spins the air and keeps it
"attached" to the airfoil. Along the aft portion of the airfoil the air is
turbulent and causes drag. By keeping the air attached the turbulent flow
at the aft portion of the wing is thinned and offsets the drag caused by
the VG itself.
Now here's the scoop: any nasty rumors you may have heard about VG's
slowing you down a few mph was probably the result of the user placing the
VG's too far forward on the airfoil. You will see a lot of installations
where the VG's are way up front. In our experience (and a lot of others
too) you want to keep them back a little ways (usually around 10% of chord)
so you won't reduce your cruise speed.
The design of the VG is also extremely important for reducing drag- our
VG's are just the right size and shape to provide optimum performance with
the minimal amount of drag. This is based on thorough wind tunnel testing
as well as considerable "field experience" from happy users.
----------------------------------------------
The instructions say put them on 10 to 12% of the wing cord (including the
ailerons)
back from the leading edge. Too far forward and they will slow down the cruise
speed, too far back and they become ineffective.
I put mine about 11% or 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge as measured
through the middle of the cord of the wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Curtin" <jcurtin(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: group-buy on poly tanks |
Hello all, If you look in sport pilot issue for April, on page 31 it shows
two 13.5 gallon tanks that are in the Ikarus C42. It also names the US
supplier. These tanks look as if they would fit it the Kolbs with no
problem. They may be able to be bought separately through the US
distributor. Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Gerken" <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: group-buy on poly tanks
>
>
> Sorry, I forgot who proposed the group-buy on molded poly fuel tanks, but,
> GOOD IDEA! I would participate assuming: It would fit into a stock
MKiii,
> and increased fuel capacity by 25% or greater. One tank or two, either
way
> would work. Does anyone have any contacts in the poly tank molding
> business so we might understand the costs per tank and the mold cost to
> split up amongst participants? I think ideally we'd have two 7.5 gallon
> tanks, built like the stock five gallon tanks, but taller. I don't know
if
> they'd go into the MKiii cage or not. I guess someone will have to do
> some experiments.
>
> Jim Gerken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kfackler" <kfackler(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ten Gallon Tanks |
> I believe the tanks in the MK II are side-by-side so I don't know if the
> special plumbing would be an advantage on the MK II.
They are side-by-side, and at least in my case, they are cross-connected so
that they empty evenly.
-Ken Fackler
Kolb Mark II / A722KWF
Rochester MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Since it sounds like Mike's experiences might parallel my own, I will throw
in my .02$ worth.
>
> | They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get
>off the
>| ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
>|
> | Mike the Kiwi.
>
>Hi Mike/Gang:
>
>6 mph stall reduction is a significant amount.
>
>Is that 6 mph reduction gained while clean or with full flaperons? at
>altitude or in ground effect? two up or solo?
In 20P's case, both. Indicated airspeed at stall went from 26 indicated to
20 - 21 indicated, actual was more like from 32 to 26 - 28, about 5 mph
reduction.
Full flaps or clean, the only difference is the deck angle relative to the
horizon when it breaks.
Solo you can land slower than before - no exact numbers, the airspeed
indicator is falling constantly, but it is slower. With two up you run out
of elevator authority when you try to land really slow, there is not enough
air flowing over the tail to hold the nose up.
Norm flew my airplane for about 20 minutes at the Kolb fly in, mostly in
the slow flight mode. His analysis was that it flew better slower, stalled
slower, but had a cleaner break when it did let go. He said he really
liked the way it flew in slow flight, he said it felt very comfortable. I
mentioned to him that trying to land at minimum speed with a passenger, it
ran out of elevator authority, and he asked me what speeds I was
indicating. I told him that before the vg's I used 55 as a minimum approach
speed, but now I could do 45 solo, and could also land at 45 two up, but
that the elevators would no longer raise the nose to flare. Part of what I
was asking him was his opinion of getting an improvement in elevator
authority by modifying the tail with vg's on the stab underside, gap
sealing the stab to the elevator, etc.
His reply? "Leave it alone and quit trying to land it so slow."
Good advice. I decided to take it and go on.
As far as landing in ground effect, since I have the stock length main
gear, it is now very easy to start dragging the tail wheel when the mains
are still in the air. With Miss P'Fers longer legs, she might not do that.
>How much quicker does the old MKIIIx levitate with the VG's?
It comes off the ground good now, but it came off the ground good before. I
can't tell much difference. However, at very steep angles of climb the
airplane feels more solid. Very subjective, but also very noticeable.
>In what way is the flare made "much better"?
I can't tell that the flare is any better at all, just that it will land
slower.
>What do the VG's do to the normal stall characteristics of the Kolb wing?
I spent about an hour feeling it out after I added the vg's, here are my
impressions-
With partial (5000 rpm) power:
With or without flaps, it will hang in there longer, you get a steeper deck
angle, and then the break is a bit cleaner or sharper. Recovery seems no
different than a Cessna 152, 172, or Piper, very ordinary. In a turn, once
again you can hold a steeper deck angle, but normal when it lets go, feels
like you would expect it to feel. No unusual or different traits noted
either straight ahead or accelerated than from how it was before.
With power off:
No flaps, it seems very much like before, except a bit cleaner when it lets
go. Still not as sharp as a Cessna, more like a fat wing Piper, but
gentler. Stalling in a turn does not tend to drop a wing. Have not tried
any really steep turn stalls, guess I ought to.
With flaps, it seems to hang in there forever, finally you get a nibble
around 20 -21 indicated, then it seems to go into parachute mode for a bit
- at this point the airspeed indicator has quit decreasing, but you can
hear the airspeed decreasing as it flows around the airframe, and you can
tell the airplane is slowing down. Simultaneously, the aft pressure
required to hold the stick back goes away, it is almost like someone is
trying to lift the elevators up for you. I suspect that the airplane is
starting to parachute in a level attitude, no stall break yet, but
developing a high rate of sink. If you hold the stick steady in the same
place, the nose starts to raise a few degrees. Within a second or two after
this you get a good clean break, the nose will fall through about 15 or 20
degrees. If you release back pressure, it will recover at once. At the
point just before the stall break where the nose starts to raise a bit and
the pressure on the stick changes - if you ease the stick a hair forward,
it sort of hangs there, you can tell it is right on the edge, sinking like
a stone, but not yet breaking. If you push the stick further forward or
add power, it returns to normal flight.
If you are turning and stall with flaps, it does not tend to drop off on a
wing. Have not tried it in a really steep turn stall, guess I ought to.
>I am interested in VG's, although I do not see a place for them on my
>antiquated MKIIIc. Recently, while flying solo with 15 gal fuel on
>board, my MKIIIc was stalling between 30 and 35 mph in ground effect
>at 410 feet ASL.
>
>Immediately, some of you automatically decide I am "against" the use
>of VG's because I ask questions about them, and state I do not intend
>to use them. Please do not prejudge my interests in what makes them
>work and how they will improve or degrade safety and performance of
>our Kolb airplanes. Just trying to learn. I understand Mike the Kiwi
>has done exhaustive study and tests in order to pass British "FAA"
>folks to certify the MKIIIx in Great Britain. Hopefully, he can pass
>some of this information along to us on the other side of the pond.
John, after all the mods you have done to Miss P'Fer, anybody can see that
you are not against trying anything. But I understand your attitude, why
try something that might not work, and might just bite you? Or maybe - if
it ain't broke, prove to me why I should fix it?
>Take care,
>
>john h
>MKIIIc (M3-011)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
>
> >In what way is the flare made "much better"?
>
>I can't tell that the flare is any better at all, just that it will land
>slower.
Thinking about this some more, I had forgotten that before the vg's, if you
got too slow and tried to flare, sometimes the MKIII would mush through the
flare like the wing wasn't biting. You flare, and it sort of falls on
through. Not any more. I guess if I flared too high, it would fall through
eventually, but the mush out through the flare that it sometimes it had
before the vg's is gone.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | terry <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
| Subject: | Ultrastar for sale |
I have a friend that is selling his UltraStar after many good years of flying it.
He recently acquired a FireStar II
and can't fly both. He still loves the way his UltraStar flies, but wanted the
extra room and seating capacity of the
FireStar II
UltraStar with 1400 TT hr.'s., 2SI engine with 140 hr.'s. with 2SI belt drive,
3 blade IVO prop, nose pod, tundra
tires, strobe, BRS, Airspeed, VSI, CHT, EGT & Tack Asking $4500 OBO. Wilmer Zimmerman,
Lancaster County, PA
Phone: (717) 354-9351
Terry - FireFly # 95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| Thinking about this some more, I had forgotten that before the
vg's, if you
| got too slow and tried to flare, sometimes the MKIII would mush
through the
| flare like the wing wasn't biting. You flare, and it sort of falls
on
| through. Not any more. I guess if I flared too high, it would fall
through
| eventually, but the mush out through the flare that it sometimes it
had
| before the vg's is gone.
| Richard Pike
| MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Richard/Gang:
With or without VG's, mush/stall is the same thing in ground effect or
out of it, for that matter. Would depend on airspeed, loading, temp,
etc. Would it not? Once the wing quits flying, it is going to head
south. Course, I can not comment on what one does with VG's because I
have never flown a Kolb equipped with them.
What always amazes me is the difference in perception between stalling
a Kolb at 1,000 feet agl and 100 feet agl. Either altitude they stall
the same, but the perception at the higher altitude is that the
aircraft is falling very slowly and recovers instantly.
Get into a full stall in a Kolb at 100 feet and it is falling fast and
may or may not recover.
I am pretty much satisfied with the performance of what I fly. A lot
of mods have been done to my MKIII, but none that affect any of the
control or flying surfaces, other than reduction of aileron and flap
cord, and lowering of the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizers.
Most of my mods were made to give me a better shot at accomplishing a
flight around the country and up to Alaska in 1994, e.g., more fuel
capacity, different seats, changing main gear, dual controls (first
ever in a Kolb), 912 (first installed on a Kolb), parachute in the
center section, and a lot of little structural changes to increase
strength and crash survivability (a lot of these changes are included
in the aircraft you all are now flying). I have never messed with
Homer's wing, air foil, etc. Don't feel I need to. If I can get
touch down speed close to 30 mph, I think I can crash successfully and
walk away. For sure, have a good chance to ground loop if I am going
to run into a wall or building, rock or some other hard object.
I think the little bit of flying I did in the factory FS II is pretty
indicative of how well these aircraft fly in their standard
configuration. I did not experience any adverse flight
characteristics despite the heavy bending of that little airplane.
Flew like a well behaved Kolb should.
Take care,
john h
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken korenek <kkorenek(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
Kolbers:
I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
condition. yellow.
They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
wings out of there.
I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
Last call.
This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
Somebody come get 'em!
Ken Korenek
817-657-6500 daily
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Riley" <riley.nancy(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
What part of the country are you located.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
>
> Kolbers:
>
> I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
> flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
> Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
> condition. yellow.
>
> They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
>
> The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
> wings out of there.
>
> I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
> I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
>
> Last call.
>
> This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
>
> Somebody come get 'em!
>
> Ken Korenek
> 817-657-6500 daily
> 817-483-8054 home
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken korenek <kkorenek(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
I'd like $1000 for 'em, but I'd settle for $750 in green money. you
pick 'em up.
I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of north Texas.
Call me and we can talk.
Ken Korenek
817-483-8054 home
817-657-6500 cell
Chuck Riley wrote:
>
>What part of the country are you located.
>Chuck
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek(at)comcast.net>
>To:
>Subject: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Kolbers:
>>
>>I've got a PERFECT set of 5 rib wings for a Firestar with only 30 hrs
>>flight time. Lift struts and aileron push-pull tubes to go with 'em.
>>Stored in a hangar on a protected storage dolly. Immaculate
>>condition. yellow.
>>
>>They'll bolt right up to a fuselage with little difficulty.
>>
>>The new Titan "S" is moving into my hangar in 2 weeks and I want the
>>wings out of there.
>>
>>I'll take just about any $$ offer and if they are still here in 2 weeks,
>>I'll stuff 'em in a dumpster.
>>
>>Last call.
>>
>>This is a helluva deal for someone smart enough to see it.
>>
>>Somebody come get 'em!
>>
>>Ken Korenek
>>817-657-6500 daily
>>817-483-8054 home
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Riley" <riley.nancy(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
Ken thanks for the quick reply. However I'm way out here in California. I
see you're taking delivery of a Titan 2-S. If you will be considering the
spring nose gear mod I have several in stock. I build the Panos spring nose
gear now. Thanks to Kimberly. The Titan dealer here in Fresno is talking
to client about 2-S with Jabaru 3300. If we can put the package together
I'm being considered for its construction. I helped a customer finish his
Titan-2 this summer. Good luck and if your building have fun.
Chuck Riley
http://chucksfalcon.tripod.com
riley.nancy(at)comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken korenek" <kkorenek(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 5 Rib Firestar Wings
>
> I'd like $1000 for 'em, but I'd settle for $750 in green money. you
> pick 'em up.
>
> I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area of north Texas.
>
> Call me and we can talk.
>
> Ken Korenek
> 817-483-8054 home
> 817-657-6500 cell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic" <vicw(at)vcn.com> |
Siphon tank installation for Kolb Firestar
The plumbing is quite simple. There are no valves.
First, connect your fuel pump to the front fuel pick-up only. Seal the
vent in the front tank and vent the front tank through the rear tank.
Mod to Front tank:
Seal the vent hole in the front tank and installed an un-vented filler cap
with a sealing gasket.
(My tanks came with a vent line installed using a rubber gasket. I
removed the vent tube from the gasket and replaced the vent tube with a bolt
to plug the hole)
Install two Fuel Tank Access Elbows (CPS Part #7005 - $3.95 each) in top
of the front tank.
I arrange my front tank so that the fuel pickup is in the front and the
two Access Elbows are on the back of the tank (one on each side of the
handle)
Mod to the Rear tank:
Install two fuel pickup tubes in the top of the rear tank: One pickup
tube comes with the tank. You will need to purchase an additional fuel
pickup and rubber gasket from Kolb to modify the rear tank.
Connect the two rear tank pickups via fuel line to the front tank access
elbows.
Make sure that the rear tank is properly vented.
How it works:
Because the front tank vents through the rear tank the atmospheric pressure
from the vented rear tank pushes the fuel out of the rear tank into the
front tank to replace any fuel drawn from the front tank. When the rear
tank
gets empty then it serves a vent tube for the front tank and the front tank
empties normally.
Originally I had only one supply line from the rear tank to the front tank
but I found out the front tank would partially empty as the rear tank
emptied. Adding the extra tube solved the problem.
Vic Worthington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Hi Pat
Mike is very busy getting the Xtra ready for Telford so I will reply as best
I can. He does not come home until the early hours of the morning.
The kits have not yet left the States. As you rightly point out the sad and
unfortunate death of Norm has delayed things a bit. The factory has been
closed for a couple of days. Mike will let you know more at Telford.
With regards to the mods all paperwork has been submitted to Francis
Donaldson and we are still waiting!!!!
Hope this is ok for now.
See you at Telford.
Stella
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
> G`day Mick,
>
> If the two Kolbs are to be in the UK by mid December, the date which you
> suggested to Mike Handley, they should be about to be put on a boat by
> now.
> Or already on. Is there any news?
>
> Is there anything which I should be looking to purchase at Telford?. I
> shall be there on Saturday. Instruments, Intercoms/radio etc., They often
> have special offers of which I should take advantage.
>
> I am going to Sun `n ` fun in April. Anything I should wait until then to
> purchase?
>
> How are approvals going? Vortex Generators, bigger tanks, Jabiru engine
> etc., I am still aiming for a flying machine up and running by Easter.
>
> Sad news about the Kolb pilot killing himself and putting his passenger in
> hospital. Probably turn out to be a heart attack or something rather than
> an
> aircraft fault, but to take this to a personal and detached level, is this
> going to affect the despatch dates of the kits?
>
> See you Saturday at Telford but I would like some comments before then..
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
Sorry chaps this was for Pat Ladd not the list!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
> Hi Pat
>
> Mike is very busy getting the Xtra ready for Telford so I will reply as
> best I can. He does not come home until the early hours of the morning.
>
> The kits have not yet left the States. As you rightly point out the sad
> and unfortunate death of Norm has delayed things a bit. The factory has
> been closed for a couple of days. Mike will let you know more at Telford.
>
> With regards to the mods all paperwork has been submitted to Francis
> Donaldson and we are still waiting!!!!
>
> Hope this is ok for now.
>
> See you at Telford.
>
> Stella
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
>
>>
>> G`day Mick,
>>
>> If the two Kolbs are to be in the UK by mid December, the date which you
>> suggested to Mike Handley, they should be about to be put on a boat by
>> now.
>> Or already on. Is there any news?
>>
>> Is there anything which I should be looking to purchase at Telford?. I
>> shall be there on Saturday. Instruments, Intercoms/radio etc., They often
>> have special offers of which I should take advantage.
>>
>> I am going to Sun `n ` fun in April. Anything I should wait until then to
>> purchase?
>>
>> How are approvals going? Vortex Generators, bigger tanks, Jabiru engine
>> etc., I am still aiming for a flying machine up and running by Easter.
>>
>> Sad news about the Kolb pilot killing himself and putting his passenger
>> in
>> hospital. Probably turn out to be a heart attack or something rather than
>> an
>> aircraft fault, but to take this to a personal and detached level, is
>> this
>> going to affect the despatch dates of the kits?
>>
>> See you Saturday at Telford but I would like some comments before then..
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Group buy on poly-tanks |
I'd be interested into looking into a 10 gallon custom tank that can be
retrofitted into a twinstar.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=Xi7O6Q1WB2/dhJ0bWXMuCMAuH37+1WlNq/Gp+vE0HY0k6+aulWmptPhctokJw7/IFaNlUBkR8A0W38uPwqTq/pVLQkr0Scd2MIaIz/iOKhgBgsNCCZ1GN9/kqgiiX0MjPei/ENq4hm/WIxJ5K1tdsSMOLQ+G/2A7oufN081iUVE;
| From: | Ben Ransom <bwr000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Richard,
What is your VG spacing and distance back (% of chord)? I take it from
this recent discussion that I would do well to test with more VGs (e.g.
every rib valley instead of every other) and closer to LE (instead of
11" back,which is more like 20%). Sort of inspired to give this a try.
-Ben
--- Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Since it sounds like Mike's experiences might parallel my own, I will
> throw
> in my .02$ worth.
>
>
> >
> > | They have lowered the stall speed 5Kt or approx 6mph, and we get
> >off the
> >| ground quicker and the landing and flare is much better.
> >|
> > | Mike the Kiwi.
> >
> >Hi Mike/Gang:
> >
> >6 mph stall reduction is a significant amount.
> >
> >Is that 6 mph reduction gained while clean or with full flaperons?
> at
> >altitude or in ground effect? two up or solo?
>
> In 20P's case, both. Indicated airspeed at stall went from 26
> indicated to
> 20 - 21 indicated, actual was more like from 32 to 26 - 28, about 5
> mph
> reduction.
> Full flaps or clean, the only difference is the deck angle relative
> to the
> horizon when it breaks.
> Solo you can land slower than before - no exact numbers, the airspeed
>
> indicator is falling constantly, but it is slower. With two up you
> run out
> of elevator authority when you try to land really slow, there is not
> enough
> air flowing over the tail to hold the nose up.
>
> Norm flew my airplane for about 20 minutes at the Kolb fly in, mostly
> in
> the slow flight mode. His analysis was that it flew better slower,
> stalled
> slower, but had a cleaner break when it did let go. He said he
> really
> liked the way it flew in slow flight, he said it felt very
> comfortable. I
> mentioned to him that trying to land at minimum speed with a
> passenger, it
> ran out of elevator authority, and he asked me what speeds I was
> indicating. I told him that before the vg's I used 55 as a minimum
> approach
> speed, but now I could do 45 solo, and could also land at 45 two up,
> but
> that the elevators would no longer raise the nose to flare. Part of
> what I
> was asking him was his opinion of getting an improvement in elevator
> authority by modifying the tail with vg's on the stab underside, gap
> sealing the stab to the elevator, etc.
> His reply? "Leave it alone and quit trying to land it so slow."
> Good advice. I decided to take it and go on.
>
> As far as landing in ground effect, since I have the stock length
> main
> gear, it is now very easy to start dragging the tail wheel when the
> mains
> are still in the air. With Miss P'Fers longer legs, she might not do
> that.
>
>
> >How much quicker does the old MKIIIx levitate with the VG's?
>
> It comes off the ground good now, but it came off the ground good
> before. I
> can't tell much difference. However, at very steep angles of climb
> the
> airplane feels more solid. Very subjective, but also very noticeable.
>
>
> >In what way is the flare made "much better"?
>
> I can't tell that the flare is any better at all, just that it will
> land
> slower.
>
>
> >What do the VG's do to the normal stall characteristics of the Kolb
> wing?
>
> I spent about an hour feeling it out after I added the vg's, here are
> my
> impressions-
> With partial (5000 rpm) power:
> With or without flaps, it will hang in there longer, you get a
> steeper deck
> angle, and then the break is a bit cleaner or sharper. Recovery seems
> no
> different than a Cessna 152, 172, or Piper, very ordinary. In a turn,
> once
> again you can hold a steeper deck angle, but normal when it lets go,
> feels
> like you would expect it to feel. No unusual or different traits
> noted
> either straight ahead or accelerated than from how it was before.
>
> With power off:
> No flaps, it seems very much like before, except a bit cleaner when
> it lets
> go. Still not as sharp as a Cessna, more like a fat wing Piper, but
> gentler. Stalling in a turn does not tend to drop a wing. Have not
> tried
> any really steep turn stalls, guess I ought to.
>
> With flaps, it seems to hang in there forever, finally you get a
> nibble
> around 20 -21 indicated, then it seems to go into parachute mode for
> a bit
> - at this point the airspeed indicator has quit decreasing, but you
> can
> hear the airspeed decreasing as it flows around the airframe, and you
> can
> tell the airplane is slowing down. Simultaneously, the aft pressure
> required to hold the stick back goes away, it is almost like someone
> is
> trying to lift the elevators up for you. I suspect that the airplane
> is
> starting to parachute in a level attitude, no stall break yet, but
> developing a high rate of sink. If you hold the stick steady in the
> same
> place, the nose starts to raise a few degrees. Within a second or two
> after
> this you get a good clean break, the nose will fall through about 15
> or 20
> degrees. If you release back pressure, it will recover at once. At
> the
> point just before the stall break where the nose starts to raise a
> bit and
> the pressure on the stick changes - if you ease the stick a hair
> forward,
> it sort of hangs there, you can tell it is right on the edge, sinking
> like
> a stone, but not yet breaking. If you push the stick further forward
> or
> add power, it returns to normal flight.
> If you are turning and stall with flaps, it does not tend to drop off
> on a
> wing. Have not tried it in a really steep turn stall, guess I ought
> to.
>
>
> >I am interested in VG's, although I do not see a place for them on
> my
> >antiquated MKIIIc. Recently, while flying solo with 15 gal fuel on
> >board, my MKIIIc was stalling between 30 and 35 mph in ground effect
> >at 410 feet ASL.
> >
> >Immediately, some of you automatically decide I am "against" the use
> >of VG's because I ask questions about them, and state I do not
> intend
> >to use them. Please do not prejudge my interests in what makes them
> >work and how they will improve or degrade safety and performance of
> >our Kolb airplanes. Just trying to learn. I understand Mike the
> Kiwi
> >has done exhaustive study and tests in order to pass British "FAA"
> >folks to certify the MKIIIx in Great Britain. Hopefully, he can
> pass
> >some of this information along to us on the other side of the pond.
>
> John, after all the mods you have done to Miss P'Fer, anybody can see
> that
> you are not against trying anything. But I understand your attitude,
> why
> try something that might not work, and might just bite you? Or maybe
> - if
> it ain't broke, prove to me why I should fix it?
>
>
> >Take care,
> >
> >john h
> >MKIIIc (M3-011)
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>
> _->
=== message truncated ===
=====
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~ransom
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
Hey Kolb guys,
First want to say how sorry I was to hear of Norm's accident, was a
truly great guy and Bruce's renaming of the field to Labhart field is a
very appropriate memorial. Norm seemed to truly be passionate about
flying. got my first dual time in Bruce's original Mark 3 with Norm at
the controls. Some things you just can't explain.
Was reading the digest version and saw all the discussion about the
VG's, and since I have a fair amount of experience with them, I thought
I'd chime in.
First off this "experience" is in a RANS S7, but aerodynamics are
aerodynamics so take it for what it's worth. On my particular plane the
stall dropped 7 mph from 37 to approx. 30. I say approx. because the
pitot is getting to a pretty steep angle of attack and as such the
readings are getting less accurate. The spacing on my plane was about
3"1/2 apart. The VG's are a molded polycarbonate wedge type sold from
Computer Certainty ( http://www.computer-certainty.com
<http://www.computer-certainty.com/> ) They are packaged in packs of
100 for about $100 dollars.yea you can make them yourself but time is
money, and these look great and are indestructible. (When glued on they
almost disappear on top of the wing thanks to being clear.)
Anyway, the improvements of the VG's are no just in numbers.the MAJOR
improvements are in HOW WELL it flies slow, not just that it flies
slower. The stability is greatly improved and roll rate isn't as
"sluggish" at slow speeds. If you are looking for stick force gradients
and changes in Dutch roll characteristics, then sorry, I didn't go to
that level of testing.try them yourself and make your own judgements.
When I called Cub Crafters in Washington (who holds an STC to put the
VG's on Super Cubs) to enquire about the glue they used to bond them on,
the owner mentioned that they installed VG's on just about every plane
that came through their shop. The package they use includes a "strake"
or cuff infront of the horizontal stab that increases elevator authority
at high angles of attack. Like my S7, the Supercubs become "elevator
limited" meaning the elevator isn't powerful enough to pull the nose
high enough to exceed the "improved" critical angle of attack.
(Remember, the wing stalls when it exceeds the critical angle of attack,
no matter the airspeed or attitude? Well the VG's increase the critical
angle of attack by delaying flow separation on the top of the wing)
In my case the S7 would "PLUNK" down about 1 out of 3 landings.you'd be
holding it off to get a 3 pointer and then "PLOP"! No warning, no
buffet, nothing, just PLOP! Well the VG's made the S7 so much easier to
land CONSISTANTLY.squeak, squeak.
They cost me $100 and 1.5 hours to install.absolutely the best $100 I've
ever spent on an airplane.
DOWN SIDE? Yes, the S7 which used to be so much fun to spin.and would
spin every time with a good foot-full of rudder right at stall speed,
either direction.became dang near impossible to make act ugly. Maybe 1
out of 5 tries will get a 1 turn spin, which never will go more than a
turn even with controls completely crossed.just rolls out into a spiral
turn. Oh well, had to learn other things to keep myself occupied.
Speed penalty? None noticeable... I read of a Van's RV6 that was
outfitted with a swivel head pitot setup and a barograph and after
several test flights before and after VG installation they said that it
cost them 3 mph. 3 mph on a 200 mph aircraft. I don't think the
average 70-80mph Kolb will ever notice that 1-2 mph loss (if any.)
Jeremy Casey
KiloCharlie Drafting, Inc.
jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
With all the discussion on vg's, I updated the webpage and added some info,
it is at
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Richard,
>What is your VG spacing and distance back (% of chord)? I take it from
>this recent discussion that I would do well to test with more VGs (e.g.
>every rib valley instead of every other) and closer to LE (instead of
>11" back,which is more like 20%). Sort of inspired to give this a try.
> -Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Group buy on poly-tanks |
Bob and Jenn B wrote:
>
> I'd be interested into looking into a 10 gallon custom tank that can be
> retrofitted into a twinstar.
>
> Bob
I have a friend that retrofitted his MKIII with two 10 gallon tanks with
very little modification to the cage. I think that he got the tanks from
Titan Aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken korenek <kkorenek(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
Kolbers,
A few days ago I posted that I need to get rid of a set of wings.
I have had several people contact me about them and ask what I want for
them.
When I said that I want $1000 and will take $750, I got a litany of
reasons why they are wanted, but it's a bit too much, got this expense,
or that one, Christmas coming, etc. I understand. We are into small
planes 'cause we're not rich. Otherwise, we'd all be in Bonanzas.
What I REALLY want are the wings out of the hangar but I'm not giving
them for free, so I have changed the amount that I'll take for 'em.
This is the deal: The first person that shows up at my doorstep or
gets a check in my hot little hand for anything more than fifteen cents
get's 'em.
Pay me what you feel you can afford and what they are worth to you and
what you feel I deserve for 'em, but I do want something.
The amount is up to you. Let your conscience be your guide.
This is a good deal for anyone.
The day I'm ready to move my Titan in the hangar, I will sweep it out
and empty the trash. And if there's still a set of wings in there...
Ken Korenek
Arlington, Texas
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken korenek <kkorenek(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 5 Rib Firestar Wings |
They're Sold!
A "non -Kolb" Tennesseean gave me his word and will be here Friday evening.
Ken Korenek
Arlington, Texas
817-657-6500 cell
817-483-8054 home
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Most of us can find a lot to be thankful for. Do not
archive
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=QvXakBeH3AnUZVrgDe1pyWVF5vHop3yfzJ7M0grd4zJU8uxS7M0/8S4pg4Q3qsLhPCARGy3pvpp5m7RGlWiSJdElvDZTzDXGJ57saNbecWeWrSK7EGVunukVvQxsxOo8bsNCa/81DwBwVl7yVMUc4Q0pb5oJeezh58wTSSPUfuc;
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Sorry, forgot to mention the aircraft type. This fellow had a Ridgerunner and
came to mind because he had just called me after coming back from doing the tests.
To say he was happy is an understatement :)
I am working on a "testimonials" page and will publish actual quotes from customers.
Just need a few more hours in the day to do it :)
Joa
www.landshorter.com
John Hauck wrote:
They work fantastic on fabric covered wings.
|
| In fact I just recently got a report from a fellow that did very
accurate takeoff-distance tests and after installing my VGs he
consistently got 25% - 30% shorter takeoffs.
|
| Joa
Joa/Gang:
That is an amazing improvement. Any better and he would be hovering.
;-)
What kind of aircraft are we talking about?
If it is not a Kolb aircraft, how does it compare to our Kolbs'
performance?
Do you have any other information about this test other than
"fantastic" results?
Take care,
john h
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl & Mim Zimmerman <emzi(at)supernet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
possums wrote:
> I think the "home made ones" would work just as well, but I don't like the
> way they look..
> Here are some pictures of 88 of the "lexan" VGs on my plane.
> See if you notice them.
> They are installed about 6 1/2 inches back from the leading edge.
> Click "view the slide show" to see all the pictures
> .... and I know my plane needs washing.
> http://possums.photosite.com/vgs/
Hello Possums,
I noticed on your photo page of the VG's that there are different
spacings. How do you determine which one to use? And what is the reason
for different spacings? ~ Earl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
At 07:35 PM 11/24/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>Hello Possums,
> I noticed on your photo page of the VG's that there are different
>spacings. How do you determine which one to use? And what is the reason
>for different spacings? ~ Earl
I wasn't really sure which one to use since I have scalloped wings
and can't just space them out evenly over the length of the wings
like you might do on a Cub.
The instructions say VG's should be placed about 1% of the wingspan apart.
I have a 27' 9" wing span.
So I put two in each valley and used the 2.75 inch spacing guide
to "kind of space them out" between each rib and false rib etc.
Just a guess, but it seemed to work out OK. It takes two of these
to equal on of the homemade ones.
I just put two on at a time and moved the guide to the next set of ribs.
I used the T-square method like Ben Ransom for the set back
and put them about 6 1/2 inches back from the LE.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html
My average cord (including the ailerons) is about 60 inches.
The instructions say to use double stick tape until you
find the optimum location or "sweet spot" and then glue them
later. I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got
at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong.
It took more time to put the tape on each VG than it did
to put the VGs on the plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d7yl" <d7yl(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
> ... I think I will just leave them stuck on with the tape I got
> at the auto paint shop - it seems pretty strong.
You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
through your prop?
regards,
Dar7yl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
At 12:57 AM 11/25/2004, you wrote:
>
>You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
>What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
>through your prop?
>
>regards,
> Dar7yl
I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
melting the tape with paint thinner.
3M=99 Automotive Acrylic Plus Attachment Tape
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?QQQQQQzxIadQjtRQctRQQQG0XALsFR9c-
Besides there are only about 8 of theses little things in front of the
big bad Warp Drive prop. I'm sure I could throw a handful of them
through the prop without hurting it. They hardly weigh anything
(100 weigh less than 1 ounce) .
Happy Turkey Day
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=ttUvhBlHqR3dd2QuOrwii93GqL4uFxUFe1uU9i3asTQJPy6XSa4fxmS4fN7gGtdL1b6rFE3pl3WMBPiXftNSiZ2xzdlQW3o6O+IZgCfWG70y7rC1oxRJEwHeCMHAraKW4chjzrwe/3N3XKDhbQ1HXdQbPbhSxjkVSwbKC4qYjO4;
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators- taping method |
I've found that the quickest way to put tape on the VGs is to peel back the protective
layer on the tape and then stick about 20 VGs right down on the roll and
then lightly cut around the VGs with a razor knife (the cheap kind that has
the tips that break off). When you stick the VGs down just put them right next
to each other (touching and so that two of the 1" long VGs are next to each
other and come up to the edge of the 2" wide tape- that leaves one fewer edge
per VG that you have to cut around) and then you take the razor knife and extend
the blade so that it's about 2" long and do a criss-cross cut pattern around/between
all the VGs.
Then take a small set of smooth-jawed (preferably curved) needlenose pliers and
pick each VG off the roll (give it a slight twist or curl as you pull it off)
and then stick it on the wing. Works really slick.
BTW all this is described in the manual that comes with my VGs.
I can do a complete set of 100 VGs in about 1 1/2 hours this way (including the
layout on the wing with my template).
Joa
www.landshorter.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=Rp1DryJXFx2edAbdZwAqGkuX97lrWLumtLZOY2L2RA/1wZyjkgulWkvyFBqhSvGuyh8nkxnNJKH7qe9+dkAUezJ5O661knNrabjLqXu+KoCZZM+WZJ1e9V0YgnInM2yNcVU7oC8DzGAXSYzBY/USAwwJkLttf3P7a5HF7bam2oo;
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators- potential prop damage |
One nice thing about Lexan VGs is that they won't harm your propeller if they should
happen to come off. With a mass of about .01 ounces and a relatively soft/flexible
material they shouldn't cause any damage.
The other trick you can do if you're worried is put them on with double-stick tape
and then take small pieces of clear packing tape (the thin kind) and place
over the bases. This will really hold them on well and is in fact what I recommend
for folks that put them on the underside of their horizontal stabs (run
a strip of the packing tape down cutting little slits in it for the VG sail to
poke up through). The VG itself holds really well with just the double-stick
but if a rock or something hits it (on the horizontal) then they could possibly
get knocked off.
Joa
www.landshorter.com
++++++++++++++++++++++
You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
through your prop?
regards,
Dar7yl
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "d7yl" <d7yl(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: vortex generators
>
> At 12:57 AM 11/25/2004, you wrote:
>>You've got to ask yourself? 1) how long is the glue going to hold up? 2)
>>What happens when those bitty pieces of plastic/metal/whatever go flying
>>through your prop?
>
> I used this tape partly because it was the right color and partly because
> when I stuck a VG on my car - it was very hard to take off without
> melting the tape with paint thinner.
How does the tape react to UV?
What is the bonding compatability with the surface of your wing?
> Besides there are only about 8 of theses little things in front of the
> big bad Warp Drive prop. I'm sure I could throw a handful of them
> through the prop without hurting it. They hardly weigh anything
> (100 weigh less than 1 ounce) .
Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge, which
could propagate into a full-blown crack.
regards,
Dar7yl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
> Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
> speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge,
> which
> could propagate into a full-blown crack.
>
> regards,
> Dar7yl
Dar7yl/Gang:
Don't know how to pronounce names with numbers in them.
Doubt those little lexan VG's will do much hard to a Warp Drive Prop,
especially one with a nickle steel leading edge. Mightg scratch the flat
black paint a bit, but don't waste your time worrying about cracking a solid
carbon fiber blade.
I put a 18" 1.5" OD exhaust pipe through my prop at WOT on a 912. Dinged
the edge a bit, but flew it home safely.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
At 02:51 PM 11/23/2004, you wrote:
>
>Hey Kolb guys,
>--snip
>Anyway, the improvements of the VG's are no just in numbers.the MAJOR
>improvements are in HOW WELL it flies slow, not just that it flies
>slower. The stability is greatly improved and roll rate isn't as
>"sluggish" at slow speeds. If you are looking for stick force gradients
>and changes in Dutch roll characteristics, then sorry, I didn't go to
>that level of testing.try them yourself and make your own judgements.
>-snip
>When I called Cub Crafters in Washington (who holds an STC to put the
>VG's on Super Cubs) to enquire about the glue they used to bond them on,
>the owner mentioned that they installed VG's on just about every plane
>that came through their shop. --snip
>
>They cost me $100 and 1.5 hours to install.absolutely the best $100 I've
>ever spent on an airplane.
>
>
>Jeremy Casey
------------------------------------------
>Don't forget that the tips of your prop are flying at almost supersonic
>speeds. It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge, which
>could propagate into a full-blown crack.
>regards,
> Dar7yl
------------------------------------------
I'm not trying to beat this to death, but there are very few things that
you can do to
your plane that (1) doesn't do anything at all for the performance - after
spending
lots of time and money or (2) actually degrades the performance of what you
were trying to do anyway. I've spent lots of $ for nothing several times.
I've got over 600 hours on this one and had about 600 hours on my old
Firestar before
it went into the lake and about 600 hours on a CGS Hawk before that. I
started playing
with these things in 1983 and was always tweaking the planes. I'm just a
weekend
flyer - 100 hours a year or less - but a lot of years.
I was just surprised at what these little things would actually do for the
amount of time and
money invested. And like Jeremy says it's not just that you can fly slower,
it's
"how well" you can fly slower. I fly my plane slow - a lot. I fly my plane
at stall speed at lot.
I can now fly "behind" the buzzards without doing "S" turns and without
stalling and can turn with
them without running into them. The Buzzards appreciate that - I'm sure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
> I can now fly "behind" the buzzards without doing "S" turns and without
> stalling and can turn with
> them without running into them. The Buzzards appreciate that - I'm
> sure.
>
> guess that beats having the buzzards circling over you....... do not
> archive
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
<< It doesn't take much impact to just scratch the leading edge,
> which could propagate into a full-blown crack.>>
Not always John.
About 9 years ago I was landing my Challenger on a strange strip when I flew
UNDER a telephone wire which some twit had strung across.
I noticed a little bump but was concentrating on the landing and thought no
more of it until wiping down the blades after arriving home I found knicks
in the leading edge of 2 of the 3 wooden blades about 4 inches from the tip.
This put the wire a few inches from taking the fin and rudder off as well.
I have kept a careful check on the progress of those knicks ever since and
they have not moved or split. My inspector on the annual C of A raises his
eyebrows and clucks disapprovingly but has never actually ordered me to do
anything about it.
Cheers
See you at S and F, John
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | MKIIIC Door plans |
Giovanni, the Old Kolb plan sheet for the MKIII Door Latch is now on the
web page.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
October 31, 2004 - November 27, 2004
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-fd