Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-fm
July 10, 2005 - August 05, 2005
Design the fuel system so the pickups are above the bottom of the tank, so any
water that does end up in the tank will not be picked up. Empty and inspect the
tanks for contamination at regular intervals. Use fuel lines that do not harden
and crack. The only plastic line I've used that remains flexible is the
blue type sold by California Power Systems. Even that will harden over time
and should be replaced periodically. It's also worth the extra effort to clamp
every junction with a stainless hose clamp.
Make sure to have a good sized cartridge type fuel filter mounted just before the
carburetors. Replace it regularly, whether it needs it or not. It's not a
bad idea to route your fuel lines to a sump with a valve at a low point in the
fuel system. This will trap any water that makes it's way into the fuel lines.
Drain it before every flight. As John Hauck says, "Take off the carburetor
fuel bowls regularly and check for junk in the bottom." If you find any, it's
a good time to drain your tanks and change the fuel filter.
Most of the time, the diaphragm operated pulse fuel pumps work OK, but there are
a number of mysterious in-flight failures that are traceable to a pulse pump
not working well enough. If you think about it, you are asking a lot of a pump
at engine level to suck a steady supply of fuel from a source three feet below
the engine. Cracked or too flexible pulse lines from the engine crank case
are a common source of fuel starvation.
It's worth the extra trouble to install an electric fuel pump in parallel with
the pulse pump. The electric pump should be mounted at or below tank level.
Both pumps have built in check valves, so either one alone will provide fuel if
the other fails or is off. The electric pump also allows you to eliminate the
fuel primer bulb, which is another classic source of fuel starvation. It's
not difficult to set up a simple electrical system with a "Key West" regulator
and small sealed lead acid battery. The Rotax manual shows how to do the wiring.
Be sure to fuse the battery and the pump. California Power Systems sells
both the electric pump and the regulator.
B. Fuel Mixture
Proper mixture is the achilles heel of two cycle engines. Give them clean fuel
with the proper mixture of oxygen and oil, and they will run forever. The oil
injection system on the newer Rotax engines seems to work very well. You do
need to inspect the oil lines from the tank to the pump, and from the pump to
the carburetor regularly. Some people (like myself) still prefer to premix a
synthetic two stroke oil at 150:1 with the gas as a backup in case the injection
system doesn't deliver properly.
Lack of oxygen (too lean) will heat up a two stroke engine rapidly and cause it
to seize. Good instrumentation allows a pilot to see problems developing before
an engine overheats and seizes. Rotax has standardized the EGT pickup position,
so the proper temperatures are well known. The main jet, needle jet, and
jet needle sizes for various altitudes and temperatures are tabulated by Rotax.
You should pick the jet sizes based on the lowest altitude and coldest temperature
you are likely to encounter. Higher altitude and higher temperatures
than you are jetted for will cause a richer mixture. Too rich a mixture will
cause carbon buildup, plug fouling, and rough running. The proper EGT for
full throttle operation should be near 1,000 degrees F. At mid-range throttle
operation (5,000 - 5,900 rpm), the normal EGT is about 50-75 degrees higher.
If you fly through a wide range of altitudes and temperatures, consider a high
altitude compensating carburetor. I'm using HAC's, and there is very little
change in EGT from sea level to over 10,000 feet. They are a Rotax product and
can be purchased from Lockwood Aviation.
Cylinder head temperature although related to EGT is more an indication of how
your cooling system is doing. The 503 and 447 fan cooling seems to work very
well, and I've heard of very few problems. You can check belt tension quickly
by sticking a screw driver through the fan guard, hold the prop, and push on
the fan blades. They should not move. Take off the fan guard and check the belt
condition and tension periodically.
A "get home" hint - if you see an abnormally high EGT at cruise, don't reduce power.
Add enough power to get into the main jet range. Slowly open the fuel
enrichment lever (starting circuit) to add additional fuel to the mixture. This
does work, but can flood the engine if you are overly enthusiastic with the
lever. I've tried it at altitude over the runway, and it will reduce the EGT.
The last fuel related failure prevention item is to periodically overhaul the carburetors
and replace all the movable parts except the slide. Engine vibration
does wear out float valves and jet needles over time.
Hope this is an aid to worry free flying with the two strokes - I believe they
really are quite reliable when all the peripheral stuff is taken care of. Last
but not least - listen to John Hauck! He's got a wealth of experience, and
is willing to take the time to share it.
Dave Bigelow
Firestar 2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, HI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar |
Vince,
The problem with a single shaft prop is prop pitch. If you optimize the pitch
for a single engine, it will not be efficient when both engines are running.
You could make it work with an in-flight adjustible prop, but resetting the pitch
after an engine failure adds a lot of work to what is already a tight situation.
The nicest solution from an engineering standpoint is to have each engine drive
counter rotating shafts and props - one shaft inside of the other. See Dennis
Souder's recent post. The Para Plane, one of the first powered parachutes used
this method with two small Solo engines. John Pitre and I borrowed the installation
and did thrust tests with both engines, front engine only, and back
engine only to see how the counter rotating props affected one another. There
was very little interaction.
I did a set of basic engineering drawings of a pair of Rotax 503's installation
to go on John's Twin Star on floats, but we didn't ever get around to building
it. It would have been very heavy. A single 912 is a better solution.
Dave Bigelow
Firestar 2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, HI
"Dave,
How about having a dual engine with a single prop? Could you mount the pair
of engines so they each or both could drive the engine through a mechanism,
such as a centrifugal clutch"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar |
Todd;
You might try the link below and research this
aircraft for the inherant problems with such a
system as the counter-rotating propellors.
http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/VTOL/USN-XV.htm
I remember others, but, this one and the famous
Russian aircraft used during the Cold War are
the two that come to mind. It was like a large
bomber-type, surveillance aircraft.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airgriff2(at)aol.com |
>
>>
>>
>> I have always used the camp grounds across the road from the
>> ultralight
>> barn. Good prices and easy to sneak into the EAA showers.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I plan to be at OSK again this year, in the campground area. Anyone
>> else
>> going?
>> >
>>
>
Yes, I will bee there for the week and hope to run into the "kolb Gang".
I,ve been to S&F 10 times and this is 1st for Oshkosh. Coming with 3 others in
a
motorhome and camping 30 miles away. See you there. I met you Woody at the TNK
gathering 2 yrs ago.
Fly safe
Bob Griffin
Albany NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 503 & 447 Reliabllity |
>
>A "get home" hint - if you see an abnormally high EGT at cruise, don't reduce
power. Add enough power to get into the main jet range. Slowly open the fuel
enrichment lever (starting circuit) to add additional fuel to the mixture. This
does work, but can flood the engine if you are overly enthusiastic with the
lever. I've tried it at altitude over the runway, and it will reduce the EGT.
>
Dave,
This will work IF there is no problem with the fuel delivery system up to
the carburetor. It is better to use the fuel enrichment lever first to see
if you can lower the EGT. If the EGT does not drop, it indicates fuel
starvation, and advancing the throttle will not help. The only way out of
this situation is to reduce the throttle opening to get back into a safe EGT
range, get on the ground and check for plugged fuel filter or line and may
be rebuild or replace the pump.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jackson, MO
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar |
| From: | Todd Fredricks <flyingfox(at)copper.net> |
I would think realistically that a multi-configuration, and I agree with you
that although aesthetically appealing the counter-rotating props on a single
shaft are not the best from an engineering standpoint if simplicity and
reliability are the end point. Even as a non-engineer I know that.
A dual 912 application would require a new airframe to make sense I would
think. What is appealing about that to me from a Kolb standpoint is that I
havespent many years looking at various construction methods and in my
opinion Kolb has always been at the forefront with its construction. That
combined with the styling of the aircraft make it an appealing pipedream to
think of a Kolb Twin perhaps a bit larger in planform but Kolb in styling
nevertheless.
Once I get the Mark III working in the shop (as soon as the brother in law
gets all of his household articles moved into his new house and my wife gets
her remodel done) I will start looking at how to increase the size of the
Mark III.
From my perspective the essential cockpit dimensions of the Mark IIIX as it
stands are ideal especially as a side-by-side center stick configuration.
Lengthen the cage by another 2 feet or so forward and the tail by a foot or
two aft. A few feet to the wing span and a larger tail and man, that would
be super.
But here I am again trying to redesign success so I will stop at that and
pull it off the shelf after a few hundred hours of flying under a single
912.
Todd
On 7/10/05 10:32 PM, "David L. Bigelow" wrote:
>
> Vince,
>
> The problem with a single shaft prop is prop pitch. If you optimize the pitch
> for a single engine, it will not be efficient when both engines are running.
> You could make it work with an in-flight adjustible prop, but resetting the
> pitch after an engine failure adds a lot of work to what is already a tight
> situation.
>
> The nicest solution from an engineering standpoint is to have each engine
> drive counter rotating shafts and props - one shaft inside of the other. See
> Dennis Souder's recent post. The Para Plane, one of the first powered
> parachutes used this method with two small Solo engines. John Pitre and I
> borrowed the installation and did thrust tests with both engines, front engine
> only, and back engine only to see how the counter rotating props affected one
> another. There was very little interaction.
>
> I did a set of basic engineering drawings of a pair of Rotax 503's
> installation to go on John's Twin Star on floats, but we didn't ever get
> around to building it. It would have been very heavy. A single 912 is a
> better solution.
>
> Dave Bigelow
> Firestar 2, 503 DCDI
> Kamuela, HI
>
> "Dave,
>
> How about having a dual engine with a single prop? Could you mount the pair
> of engines so they each or both could drive the engine through a mechanism,
> such as a centrifugal clutch"
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Original Firestar cage |
| From: | Dwight.Kottke(at)hti.htch.com |
08:09:20 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/11/2005 08:09:20 AM,
Itemize by SMTP Server on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at
07/11/2005
08:09:55 AM,
Serialize by Router on HUDOMGW1/HTI(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 07/11/2005
08:09:56 AM,
Serialize complete at 07/11/2005 08:09:56 AM
In the process of repairing my bent up gear leg sockets. I noticed that I
have a two piece fuselage. The rear section which is about 3 feet long
and supports the engine, gas tank, tube, and the wings. The front section
which is about 4 feet long supports the butt of pilot. The two are
attached at four points with a male and female tube connection and are
bolted together. I have several observations on this setup.
1. The length of 7 feet may have been to long to ship as a kit so Kolb
designed it in two pieces?????
2. I am thinking of permanently welding the two sections together. Good
idea or bad idea????
Can any of you Firestar pilots or Dennis S. shed some light on this topic?
Thanks
Dwight Kottke
The Flying Farmer
Driving to Oshkosh the 29th & 30th
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Firestar |
Todd;
I've been racking my brain, trying to find a
couple of links that I thought would be more
appropriate to the design that you've been
dreaming about. I knew that I had seen a
couple planes that came pretty close to the
Kolb in general appearance, but had two
engines. 1 or 2 even had them mounted
in the pusher configuration.
I hope this information is helpful:
http://www.spectrumaircraft.com/aircraft.shtml
http://www.spectrumaircraft.com/g_a36vulcan.shtml
I think you will be able to see the similarity very
quickly.
George Bass
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 503 & 447 Reliabllity/Mixture and Prop Loading |
| Lack of oxygen (too lean) will heat up a two stroke engine rapidly
and cause it to seize.
| Dave Bigelow
Dave B/All:
I waited for others to catch the above.
On this side of the pond mixture works just the opposite. "Lack of
fuel (too lean) raises EGT."
And too much fuel lowers EGT.
Of signifinance is the unusual two characteristic of prop loading and
EGT. In the beginning, when I started flying two strokes, 1984, I
never read or heard of this phenomonen. Actually discovered it while
flying my Cuyuna powered Ultrastar. During cruise flight, without
changing throttle setting, I could push the nose over and watch the
EGT rise as airspeed increased. On the contrary, pull the stick back,
watch the EGT drop as airspeed decreases. Bingo, the light bulb
turned on. I realized that prop loading was a significant part of
controlling two stroke EGT.
Many two stroke engines were seized since that time based on incorrect
diagnosis of improper EGT and improper prop loading. Engines come
from the manufacturer set up to operate in normal conditions, which is
pretty wide. However, the first thing folks wanted to do to correct
the EGT problem was change main jet size, change needle position,
change spark plug heat range. They, for the most part, ended up
chasing their tails and seizing two stroke engines, sometimes at the
cost of breaking their airplanes and themselves.
In flight adjustable props and mixture controls only add to the
possibility of having EGT problems. I bought one of Mike Stratman's
in flight mixture controls for my Cuyuna and Mikuni carb. The idea
was good, but operator problems soon got me into trouble and I
experienced my first engine out on take off from Tuskeege, Alabama's,
Moton Airfield. Somehow, between my landing there, refuel, and
takeoff, the mixture control knob got rotated a turn or two rich. On
takeoff at full throttle the engine ran great until it came up to full
operating temp, then suddenly shut down at about 100 feet AGL. No
spitting, no sputtering, no tapering off of power. Shut down just
like hitting the mag switch. Soon after, I removed the in flight
adjustable main jet mixture control.
john h
Mark III/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Original Firestar cage |
| 2. I am thinking of permanently welding the two sections together.
Good
| idea or bad idea????
| Dwight Kottke
Dwight/Gang:
We welded my original FS cage rather than bolt the two pieces
together. Felt better that way, although there are/were many out
there flying safely.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Original Firestar cage |
My Twinstar is the same way. It is great when you are building as it takes
up less room. If and when you bang up your aircraft you can simply unbolt
this portion for repairs or replacement. Mine has been bolted together for
10 years now and thay haven't come apart yet.
The two are
> attached at four points with a male and female tube connection and are
> bolted together. I have several observations on this setup.
>
> 1. The length of 7 feet may have been to long to ship as a kit so Kolb
> designed it in two pieces?????
>
> 2. I am thinking of permanently welding the two sections together. Good
> idea or bad idea????
>
> Can any of you Firestar pilots or Dennis S. shed some light on this topic?
>
>
> Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne F.Wilson" <wfwilson1(at)yahoo.ca> |
Woody is correct I have been to his place and seen his
planes. It does work and you already have the
material.
Regards
Wayne F Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Kolb |
| I get a chance to talk with Homer about planes, | Jim
Jim/Gents/and Ladies:
I have some pencil sketches of Homer's first hang glider and also his
idea of a 4, 6, or 8 engine very light airplane. The sketches were
done on a yellow lined legal pad in my 5th wheel at Lakeland some
years ago. The engines will be mounted all over the airplane, e.g., a
couple on each side of the nose, same on the tail, maybe a couple two
or four on the wings. They will be pilot operated directional thrust,
fore and aft, to give the aircraft hover, extreme slow flight, and
normal flight characteristics. To me, way over my head, but seemed
like it was going to be a very busy airplane and pilot.
Homer Kolb's idea of flying is extremely slow, right on the tops of
the trees, in a small, light weight aircraft. A four or eight engine
(very small lightweight engines) would be ideal for him, placed on the
wings in a conventional manner.
I hope I still have those sketches. Amazing what a couple Diet Cokes
and a couple packages of hot dogs will do to get Homer sharing his
background in aviation.
Take care,
john h
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
Not Kolb-related but important. From Aero-news.net:
Aero-News Alert: Jimmy Franklin, Bobby Younkin Lost In Moose Jaw MidAir
Horrible Weekend For Airshows
ANN REALTIME UPDATE
0029, 07.11.05: This is one of those stories I never
thought I'd have to do... but a tragic and fiery midair collision
during a presentation of the "Masters of Disaster" airshow routine
has resulted in two fatalities and a reported injury after the
three airplanes ran afoul of each other. The incident occurred at
1620, local time.
It has now been confirmed that both Jimmy Franklin, a truly
legendary airshow performer, and Bobby Younkin, a greatly
accomplished flyer, have been lost in this staggeringly
catastrophic crash. Both Younkin's and Franklin's death has now
been confirmed in national media reports. The airshow was
canceled immediately after the accident.
Both Younkin's 'Samson' and Franklin's Jet Waco biplanes
(first pic, below) were brought down and destroyed while a third,
Jim Leroy's 'Bulldog', apparently got down to the ground under
some kind of control. Unfortunately, Franklin's son Kyle, who had
just finished a wing-walking performance with his dad, was
announcing the act when the midair occurred.
According to published reports, Bobby Younkin was scheduled to
be flying "Samson" (second photo, shown below) while we have
determined that it was Franklin's Waco that went down. The
third, surviving, airplane was as Jim LeRoy's Bulldog (third photo,
below).
The accident took place at this year's 2005 Saskatchewan
Centennial Airshow, hosted by the Canadian Force's 15 Wing at Moose
Jaw. The show was to have included performances by a number of
military birds and a Snowbirds flight demonstration... which was to
also have honored the memory of Snowbird pilot Capt. Miles Selby,
lost in a training accident last year.
The Airshow site released a statement a short ago while that
reported, "At approximately 16:20, the Air Show was brought to
an unexpected halt after two pilots from Masters Of Disaster were
killed in a collision mid-flight. The planes were Samson and Waco.
The pilots names will be released once the next of kin have been
informed. Bulldog was able to make a safe landing and emergency
crews responded immediately. The accident is currently under
investigation. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and
friends of those involved."
Additional: Delaware MidAir Kills
Two Practicing Formation
In a related story, a six-ship formation flight, conducted as
practice for a Delaware airshow has apparently resulted in yet
another midair, bringing down two experimental-amateur built
aircraft. One pilot is now confirmed dead and has been identified
as Jay Blume, 39, of Berwyn, Pennsylvania, flying a Rutan-designed
Long-Ez. The other aircraft, a Van's RV-8, is registered to Ralph
D. Morgan of Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. His condition or involvement
in the actual accident has not yet been determined. All six
aircraft were members of a local formation flying team, known as
the 'Vultures.'
ANN will have more info for you as soon as possible.
[ANN Thanks our good buddy, Fly-Low's Ralph McCormick, for the
airshow pic of Franklin and Leroy, above.]
FMI: www.saskatchewanairshow.com,
www.xteamairshows.com,
www.franklinairshow.com, www.younkinair.com, www.bulldogairshows.com,
For the WHOLE story, go to http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockIDac06a205-0f48-432c-86fc-a94cae23e638&Dynamic1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine Kolb |
On Jul 11, 2005, at 11:50 AM, FlyColt45(at)aol.com wrote:
> Homer may have mentioned this to others who visit him - so it's no
> big news.
> Just nice to know that the greater minds are always thinking.
Yep, he did.
You'd all be surprised at the creative multi engine plane Homer has in
mind.
clue,
think super STOL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ultralight harrier!
and he's got a plan.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
This was terrible news. I saw Jim Franklin just last week at the Battle
Creek airshow. A very sad day in aviation.
Ed in JXN
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Sad news
>
>
> Not Kolb-related but important. From Aero-news.net:
>
> Aero-News Alert: Jimmy Franklin, Bobby Younkin Lost In Moose Jaw MidAir
> Horrible Weekend For Airshows
>
> ANN REALTIME UPDATE
> 0029, 07.11.05: This is one of those stories I never
> thought I'd have to do... but a tragic and fiery midair collision
> during a presentation of the "Masters of Disaster" airshow routine
> has resulted in two fatalities and a reported injury after the
> three airplanes ran afoul of each other. The incident occurred at
> 1620, local time.
>
> It has now been confirmed that both Jimmy Franklin, a truly
> legendary airshow performer, and Bobby Younkin, a greatly
> accomplished flyer, have been lost in this staggeringly
> catastrophic crash.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Labhart Crash |
Several years ago I purchased a Mr.Funnel through CPS (California Power
Systens). Iuse it to filter the fuel as I fill the Firestars tank. Since I have
been using this funnel, the Purolator filter (with the see-through glass body)
has remained absolutely clean.
There has been no sediment in the fuel tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: KOLB-RELATED/Seat Reinforcement |
| I'd feel happier with a steel or
| aluminum plate and a big block of foam of some sort -- Temperfoam?>>
| The authorities have made a block of foam mandatory on the Xtra`s
being
| built here.
| Cheers
|
| Pat
Many years ago I learned a trick from the pilots that flew the JAARS
Heliocouriers at Lakeland and OSH. One of the Helio pilots had
stalled on short final, hitting hard, he was driven down through the
4130 pilots seat frame. Result was spinal injury and being paralyzed
from the waist down. Their response to that was build a seat that was
crash worthy. They "Z'd" the base instead of rigid mounting them. In
addition, they rivet a sheet aluminum pan to the bottom of each seat
to prevent the pilot and copilot from be driven down through the seat
in event of a similar accident.
When I built my MKIII I put rigid seats in it with sheet metal pans
riveted to the frame under each seat.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Anliker <manliker(at)uiuc.edu> |
| Subject: | Polyfiber Polytone Paint for sale |
One gallon each of Bahama Blue and Pontiac Red. Just rec'd. Changed paint
scheme. For sale in/near Illinois (can't ship via UPS). $50/gallon.
Mark Anliker
Sadorus, IL
217-898-4766
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
| Subject: | KOLB-RELATED/Seat Reinforcement |
As I recall they also installed a steel coiled spring inside the "Z'ed tube
to help keep it from collapsing.
Dennis
Their response to that was build a seat that was
crash worthy. They "Z'd" the base instead of rigid mounting them. In
addition, they rivet a sheet aluminum pan to the bottom of each seat
to prevent the pilot and copilot from be driven down through the seat
in event of a similar accident.
When I built my MKIII I put rigid seats in it with sheet metal pans
riveted to the frame under each seat.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
Finally got around to flying my Jabi powered MK 3. I've been too busy
flying other peoples Kolbs and I ignored my own. Very bumpy and windy today
but it felt good to be up again. I did notice a couple problems. My Engine
RPM does not seem to to get to it's full potential. It turns 2700 when I
should be turning 3300. I still climb out quite briskly but it should be
better with that extra 20% more RPM. Cruise around 70 at 2500. Any Jabi
owners out there know what could be causing it? I am spinning a 58/44 prop
that was installed on a Jabi Titan.
Other problem is that one egt is in the normal range (1300) and the other
is at 1410. On a dual carb engine I would play with the carbs but the single
carb seems to indicate another problem. All measurements are taken on an EIS
unit. Any ideas??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabi flight/Prop Pitch and EGT |
It turns 2700 when I
| should be turning 3300.
I am spinning a 58/44 prop
| that was installed on a Jabi Titan.
| Other problem is that one egt is in the normal range (1300) and the
other
| is at 1410.
Woody/Gang:
Second paragraph is your answer. The engine was propped for a Titan.
58" diamter two blade wood prop ain't much prop for a MKIII. Need a
prop with less pitch cause us MKIII guys are not nearly as clean as
the Titan.
Probably the difference in the sensors. That is why I don't have EGT
on my 912 or 912S. Something else to worry about. The 912 series
engines will let you know if they get too lean or too rich. Don't
need a gauge to tell you.
john h
MKIII
Titus, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultra Light Twins |
Hey there, Kolb Listers::
Dale Kramer may not be in Homer's class, but his Lazair was a dandy on
the butterfly side of
slo&light vs fast&heavy side of the aircraft divide."
The Lazair is one of the best true ultralights. I remember seeing one at Oshkosh
in the early 80's do a loop. I don't remember if it would fly on one engine.
I investigated building one, and decided not because of the lack of one man
wing fold. It needed a crew to assemble (or a hanger).
Viva La Kolb!
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DIDC
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dale seitzer <dalemseitzer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | original firestar cage for sale |
I still have a rebuilt original firestar cage for
sale. Just the main cage, not the front section.
Dale Seitzer
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Original Firestar cage
I have just replaced the Landing Gear sockets in my
original firestar
and I
moved the top of the sockest Back 2 inches to move my
wheels forward a
bit to
help the nose over problem on sticky snow and I also
went to the bigger
diameter gear leg to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> |
Woody,
We are fitting Jabs as standard to UK Kolbs, We have found that the GT prop
62inch gives good performance, max RPM 2900, and the Prince P-Tip 62/37
gives 3100 WOT in level flight, this prop gives the best all round
performance in my view.
The engine I have is #1894 which is 85hp.
Very happy with Jab.
Mike
Xtra/Jab2200
G-CDFA
----- Original Message -----
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: Jabi flight
>
> Finally got around to flying my Jabi powered MK 3. I've been too busy
> flying other peoples Kolbs and I ignored my own. Very bumpy and windy
> today
> but it felt good to be up again. I did notice a couple problems. My Engine
> RPM does not seem to to get to it's full potential. It turns 2700 when I
> should be turning 3300. I still climb out quite briskly but it should be
> better with that extra 20% more RPM. Cruise around 70 at 2500. Any Jabi
> owners out there know what could be causing it? I am spinning a 58/44 prop
> that was installed on a Jabi Titan.
> Other problem is that one egt is in the normal range (1300) and the other
> is at 1410. On a dual carb engine I would play with the carbs but the
> single
> carb seems to indicate another problem. All measurements are taken on an
> EIS
> unit. Any ideas??
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jabi flight/Prop Pitch and EGT |
Static RPM should be the same no matter what airframe or no airframe is
holding it. Streamlining will have its major effect on airspeed not engine
speed. The prop may not seem big but this is designed for direct drive and a
different set of rules apply for picking the prop. Perhaps I should put a
warp drive on it for a test. I forgot I had one for this engine. Egt is a
good instrument for diagnosis of a problem but not an instrument to fly by.
I like to know what is going on in my engine and have the option of choosing
what I want to do. Just a personal preference.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jabi flight/Prop Pitch and EGT
>
> It turns 2700 when I
> | should be turning 3300.
>
> I am spinning a 58/44 prop
> | that was installed on a Jabi Titan.
>
> | Other problem is that one egt is in the normal range (1300) and the
> other
> | is at 1410.
>
> Woody/Gang:
>
> Second paragraph is your answer. The engine was propped for a Titan.
> 58" diamter two blade wood prop ain't much prop for a MKIII. Need a
> prop with less pitch cause us MKIII guys are not nearly as clean as
> the Titan.
>
> Probably the difference in the sensors. That is why I don't have EGT
> on my 912 or 912S. Something else to worry about. The 912 series
> engines will let you know if they get too lean or too rich. Don't
> need a gauge to tell you.
>
> john h
> MKIII
> Titus, AL
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail boomTail boom |
At 10:57 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
>
>you can sea my bird on that link, before and after crash
>
>
>http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c7qw4ih1.32lpy951&x1&y81y59b
Can't open your link.
Would like to see your boom tube.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Garvelink" <link(at)cdc.net> |
| Subject: | Tail boomTail boom |
You must be leaving something off that link. I just get the Kodak site
picture share website with password and user name.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail boomTail boom
At 10:57 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
>
>you can sea my bird on that link, before and after crash
>
>
>http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c7qw4ih1.32lpy951&x1&y81y59b
Can't open your link.
Would like to see your boom tube.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Tail boomTail boom |
Same here.
You must be leaving something off that link. I just get the Kodak site
picture share website with password and user name.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail boomTail boom
At 10:57 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
>
>you can sea my bird on that link, before and after crash
>
>
>http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c7qw4ih1.32lpy951&x1&y81y59b
Can't open your link.
Would like to see your boom tube.
Thanks
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
| Subject: | Dennis, an HKS update? |
At 05:17 PM 7/12/2005, you wrote:
Dennis --
On Mar 12, 1998, you made a Kolb list post about your experiments with the
HKS engine on a Slingshot. It's been 7 years and I'm wondering if you have
any new info/opinions about the current run of HKS engines on the Slingshot
or Firestar II?
-- Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jon Croke" <jon(at)joncroke.com> |
Forgive this for being a little off Kolb topic...(!) .. but I wanted to announce that any aviator that didnt have a chance to make it to Sun n Fun last spring has another chance to experience it vicariously thru a DVD video that was just completed. It is of different format than the one I made last year - this one covers all areas of the show rather than just the ultralight field. Lots of pictures from the video are displayed at www.HomebuiltHELP.com Also, the price is only $10 this time due to economies of volume!
Thanks to all,
Jon
Firestar sold, awaiting pickup by new owner.
Zenith CH701 almost done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Digest Truncation Fixed!! |
Dear Listers,
I finally figured out today what was causing the occasional
truncation of the daily List Digest emails. Seems that every once in
a while a message would contain a single "." (period) on line all by
itself. The mailers would see this and assume that this was the
universal emailer signal for "end of message", and consequently
wouldn't process any of the rest of the Digest message.
I've put in a filter today to remove any of these sequences so we
should be back in business on the Digests.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
Question for the Kolb 912 Operators -
I'm in the final throes of installing a 912 on my Mark-III, and need some
advice on the CHT gauge. Do I need to monitor both sides of the engine
(dual-CHT), or can I get by with just one?
Here's my situation: the Rotax uses VDO guages. And VDO makes only a
single-CHT gauge, not a dual-CHT. To monitor dual CHTs means two seperate
gauges, and I only have room for one CHT gauge in my panel. This means I'd
only be able to monitor a single CHT output. I could get a dual-CHT gauge
from Westach, but that means new senders, etc.
So ... if I pick the hottest cylinder to monitor, can I get away with only a
single-CHT gauge?
Many thanks -
Dennis Kirby
Mark-III, almost ready to fly again, in
Cedar Crest, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912 CHT Options |
| So ... if I pick the hottest cylinder to monitor, can I get away
with only a
| single-CHT gauge?
|
| Many thanks -
| Dennis Kirby
Dennis K/All:
Yes!!!
Number two cylinder is hottest cylinder on the 912 series engines in
the pusher configuration.
Also, there is no need to monitor coolant temperature. Some people
do, but there is no limits defined for coolant temps. Rotax indicates
limits for engine oil temp and CHT. What we are measuring on the 912
engines is cyl head metal, not coolant temps. The senders are already
installed in number two and number three cyl heads. All you need is a
300F gauge.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
any one looked on barnstormers lately,, search for ultrastar there are 5 on there
now,, hummm?? wonder why, after i sold mine i kicked my butt should have never
sold it, if i was not starting something else, i sure would buy one .. most
fun ever,and super easy to fly...hum wonder if i can hide one in my shop, she
never goes there, too dirty in it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
I just put an ad in www.barnstormers.com for my Firestar II.
"KOLB FIRESTAR II FOR SALE . $9,500 . FOR IMMEDIATE SALE . $9,500 firm. 53
hours airframe and engine. Always hangared, in excellent condition. 503
DCDI, intake and exhaust silencers, "C" gearbox, oil injection. Strobes,
VSI, fuel level, EGT-CHT, ASI, altimeter, hour meter. It's a sweet-flying
plane, and it shouldn't be stuck in the hangar when I'm out flying the
Skywagon or sailing my boat. Many extras included. Telephone: (303) 499-7048
home, (720) 320-2453 cell. . Contact me at dpaule(at)frii.com - located
Boulder, CO USA . Telephone: 303 499-7048"
Extra stuff includes a case of oil, hydraulic bike brakes and plans, a
fabric kit and touch-up paint, a full-swiveling tailwheel and bracket, a
second 5-gallon tank and fittings, material for a set of steel main gear
legs, the kit for the second seat, and a pair of wing stands.
I'm just not flying this plane! It's sitting around all the time.
Oh - if you're interested, I'm selling it for less than I paid for it to
sell it quickly.
Dave Paule
Boulder, CO
Too many toys!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | new member with questions |
Hello everyone,
I am a new member, my name is Jim Swan, live near Lansing, Michigan in the
summer and near Sebring Florida in the winter. Got my private when in high
school, soloed in J-3. I am now 74 yrs old and plan on buying a Kolb. Would
like all the info. i could get on trailering Kolb , as I would like to take in
back and forth between Michigan and Florida, so would like to communicate with
those that have experience. Would like also to take some dual in Kolb or a
ride close to my locations. Feel free to contact me: ph 517-663-8488 or email
_ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM_ (mailto:ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM) I am in Michigan now until late
October.
Thanks....have been reading the posts. interesting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Ok Don, will check out archive search. thanks jim swan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene D. Ledbetter" <gdledbetter(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Jim,
I'm 75 years old, have been flying a Firefly for 4 years and have
accumulated 300 hrs so far. It has been to Florida the last 4
winters and is housed most of the time in its trailer.
I had a hangar about half of its life and have flown out of the
trailer the other two years. I am currently flying out of the
trailer again. If I don't have help, I can take it out of the
trailer and have it ready to fly in about 30 minutes. that includes
loading fuel and doing a preflight. I can put it back into the
trailer in about 15 minutes. My best time to date was 12 minutes.
If I have help, it takes quite a bit longer.
I would be glad to share my experience with you if you are interested.
I had never flown and started flying lessons after I lost my wife.
After 55 hours in a Cessna 172 with instructor, the FAA told me they
would not let me have a medical so the Firefly was the best alternate
option.
I would be glad to answer your questions if you would like to call.
I live in Cincinnati and the number is 513-752-0119.
My web site has some information on my Firefly and trailering and it
can be found at:
homepage.mac.com/gene1930
I tried to send this to you offline but the message bounced....
Gene Ledbetter....
On Jul 15, 2005, at 10:19 PM, Arksey(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am a new member, my name is Jim Swan, live near Lansing,
> Michigan in the
> summer and near Sebring Florida in the winter. Got my private when
> in high
> school, soloed in J-3. I am now 74 yrs old and plan on buying a
> Kolb. Would
> like all the info. i could get on trailering Kolb , as I would
> like to take in
> back and forth between Michigan and Florida, so would like to
> communicate with
> those that have experience. Would like also to take some dual in
> Kolb or a
> ride close to my locations. Feel free to contact me: ph
> 517-663-8488 or email
> _ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM_ (mailto:ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM) I am in Michigan now
> until late
> October.
> Thanks....have been reading the posts. interesting.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Kolbers and Kolbettes...
Interesting 30 minute ride today... rear cylinder CHT was running 40 degrees hotter
than front...360 on rear, 320 on front. When I played with it a little I
found that it was possible to induce a decreasing RPM condition without moving
the throttle... Classic stuck-ring pre-seizure symptoms... The EGT's both remained
normal at about 1080 at 5600 RPM. Gave it PLENTY of gas to cool it down
long enough to get back to airstrip.
Tomorrow morning I will pull off the cylinders to take a good look and de-carbon
the top end.
I have a question... I searched the List archives, but could not find an answer...
I recall that there has been some List correspondence and references in
the past about the near- commonality of part numbers between Bombardier Ski-Doo
parts and Rotax parts... Is there any sort of cross-reference to readily
identify the Ski-Doo part numbers which will fit a 447?
Any info will be greatly appreciated.
Beauford
FF #076
Brandon, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
|My ground speed was down to 32 mph while I was climbing
| and only improved to 48 mph after I leveled out. Going to be "tough
| sledding" for the trip back to Klamath Falls.
| Larry, Oregon
Hi Larry C/Gang:
Even at 32 mph ground speed, still beats walking, especially in your
neck of the woods! ;-)
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Bosch <cheeky(at)acenet.co.za> |
| Subject: | MK3 High stall speed problem |
Hi Kolbers,
I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well before the
plane
stalls.
Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
Thnx,
Peter Bosch
South Africa
--
Peter Bosch
Ultralight Marketing
Web: http://www.ulm.co.za
E-mail: cheeky(at)acenet.co.za
Po Box 264473. Three Rivers. 1935. South Africa.
Tel: +27 (0)83 753-4678 Fax: +27 (0)16 933-6540
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
Peter, that one is difficult to believe. Airspeed indicator
calibration?
Short wings?, No center section?
Extremely heavy aircraft/pilot? The tailwheel touchdown isn't
unusual at a full stall a foot or two off the ground.
-BB, MkIII, enduring gulf coast atmosphere in western New York
On 16, Jul 2005, at 8:46 PM, Peter Bosch wrote:
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
> She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well
> before the plane
> stalls.
> Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
> Thnx,
> Peter Bosch
> South Africa
> --
> Peter Bosch
> Ultralight Marketing
> Web: http://www.ulm.co.za
> E-mail: cheeky(at)acenet.co.za
> Po Box 264473. Three Rivers. 1935. South Africa.
> Tel: +27 (0)83 753-4678 Fax: +27 (0)16 933-6540
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
cg way out?...or airspeed indicater is lying????
sure sounds strange
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
Hi John,
Have you had any problems with the DRE and transmitting noise. The guy
at the Lakeview FBO said that I was coming in loud but with gobs of noise.
So much that he couldn't understand me. I have not had problems with my
other Sig headsets. My plugs are new resistor types.
Will check the next time I fly and check with the sig headset and see if
they are clearer. Hearing is swell.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Old thread- Trips
>
> |My ground speed was down to 32 mph while I was climbing
> | and only improved to 48 mph after I leveled out. Going to be "tough
> | sledding" for the trip back to Klamath Falls.
>
> | Larry, Oregon
>
> Hi Larry C/Gang:
>
> Even at 32 mph ground speed, still beats walking, especially in your
> neck of the woods! ;-)
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
| From: | pengy(at)humboldt.net |
>
> Hi Kolbers,
> I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
> She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well
> before the plane
> stalls.
> Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
> Thnx,
> Peter Bosch
> South Africa
Wing angle of attack?
Penguin
Student
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Thanks Gene Ledbetter,
Thanks for your information on your flying and trailering your Firefly.
Good for you that you are flying, sorry about the loss of your wife. I will for
sure be in contact with you, have lots of questions. I will start looking for
a Kolb to purchase and intend to trailer like you do. I have a farm here
in Michigan and the intention is to put in a grass strip this fall. In
Florida i and my wife stay near Sebring, there is a nice airport there and also
some grass strips in the area. I have met some people there that fly and live
on
grass runway airports. The weather there as you know is excellent in the
winter time for flying. thanks again. Jim Swan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Hello Steven Green,
Thanks for info I asked for. I will contact Rick Neilson. Thanks again
for taking the time to respond. Jim Swan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Radio Transmit Noise |
| Have you had any problems with the DRE and transmitting noise.
| Larry
Morning Larry C/All:
Don't overreact at one negative comment. Could be the FBO's radio or
the position you and your aircraft were in when transmitting.
Make sure you have a good ground on the antenna coax and on the
intercom, if running one.
Also, if you are not running a large capacitor tied into the 12VDC
system just down stream from the regulator/rectifier, you are probably
getting a lot of noise it would soak up.
There are several sizes of mic muffs, some very large one that go over
the top of the small ones. I got some from Mark Jones at Sigtronics
to try out, but never took time to experiment with them.
May be getting some wind noise from open cockpit.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "W Boyter" <boyter(at)mcsi.net> |
Is there two differnce styles of steel gear legs for the Mark III ? (long & short)
Wayne
400 hrs
Rotax 582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
>
>Thanks Gene Ledbetter,
>Thanks for your information on your flying and trailering your Firefly.
>Good for you that you are flying, sorry about the loss of your wife. I will for
>sure be in contact with you, have lots of questions. I will start looking for
>a Kolb to purchase and intend to trailer like you do. I have a farm here
>in Michigan and the intention is to put in a grass strip this fall. In
>Florida i and my wife stay near Sebring, there is a nice airport there and also
>some grass strips in the area. I have met some people there that fly and live
on
>grass runway airports. The weather there as you know is excellent in the
>winter time for flying. thanks again. Jim Swan
>
Jim,
There is a good FireFly advertised for sale not too far from you. It is
listed on barnstormers.com. It weighs 240 and is powered by a Rotax 277.
Very low time and the asking price is below $5,000. From the photos it
looks good. I emailed the owner as I was interested in knowing how well a
FireFly would perform on no more than 28 hp. He said it flies very well.
The reason for selling is that his airport was sold.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack & Louise Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Jim
I've been gone for the weekend so I just got you message. I live south of
Grand Ledge, MI at 10471 Royston Rd. My phone number is 517-627-4703 and
would be happy to talk to you. I'm kind of busy this week getting ahead on
my honey do list before the gang drops in Friday for our flight to Oshkosh
but give me a call. Also your welcome to stop in at my home strip Friday or
early Saturday to see my Kolb MKIIIc and three others. There may be one
other airplane there but that's ok not everyone is fortunate enough to fly a
Kolb. Also I winter in Venice Fl and one of my future projects is to build a
light trailer to haul my plane down there and back.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: <Arksey(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: new member with questions
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am a new member, my name is Jim Swan, live near Lansing, Michigan in
> the
> summer and near Sebring Florida in the winter. Got my private when in
> high
> school, soloed in J-3. I am now 74 yrs old and plan on buying a Kolb.
> Would
> like all the info. i could get on trailering Kolb , as I would like to
> take in
> back and forth between Michigan and Florida, so would like to communicate
> with
> those that have experience. Would like also to take some dual in Kolb or
> a
> ride close to my locations. Feel free to contact me: ph 517-663-8488 or
> email
> _ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM_ (mailto:ARKSEY(at)AOL.COM) I am in Michigan now until
> late
> October.
> Thanks....have been reading the posts. interesting.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem |
What's the landing roll? If it stalls at 55, it should have a landing roll
of several hundred feet, depending on brake usage.
Dave Paule
dpaule(at)frii.com
Boulder, CO.
FSII for sale
> I have a customer who purchased a Kolb MK3, 583, 3blade Ivo.
> She stalls at 55 mph in any configuration, tailwheel touches as well
> before the plane
> stalls.
> Any obvious places I can tell him to look?
> Thnx,
> Peter Bosch
> South Africa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steel gear legs |
There are two styles of steel gear legs that I'm aware of. I have the older
style steel legs on my MKIII they are solid steel and taper down to the
diameter of the wheel axle. They have been made two ways one with a tubular
extension that helps transfer landing loads further up into the leg socket
and without the extension. They are very springy and some people don't like
their feel. I find they give you a real smooth ride but they can launch you
back into the air if you botch your landing.
The newer style is a fully tubular steel from axle to the upper end. They
look longer, are bent down, and forward. The newer legs appear to be built
using John Hauck's ideas such as taller stance and more weight on the tail.
We haven't received any pilot reports yet.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Boyter" <boyter(at)mcsi.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: steel gear legs
>
> Is there two differnce styles of steel gear legs for the Mark III ? (long
> & short)
>
> Wayne
> 400 hrs
> Rotax 582
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 447 Follies/Coked Rings |
| Problem was coked- on carbon on the top rings.... they were seized.
| Beauford
Bill T/Gang:
Nothing wrong with Pennzoil for Air Cooled Engines, if the engine is
operated where it should be. Two strokes have a bad habit of not
"clearing" themselves completely if they are not run at high enough
rpm. Rotax two strokes run well at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm cruise. They
come up on the pipe around 5,400 to 5,500 rpm. Anything below that
and you will be contantly adding residual oil to the crankcase. The
incoming charge, at slow speeds, is not fast enough and of enough
volume to keep the crank case cleared.
Ever notice a two stroke after it has sat on the ground for a day or
two. On start up it belches out a nice cloud of blue oil smoke, and
continues to smoke until most of the oil that has settled in the cases
is blown out.
I never seized an aircooled Rotax. Always flew them hard and harder.
Always cruised at 5,800 to 6,000 rpm.
However, it has been more than 15 years since I was a Rotax two stroke
owner/flyer. Maybe things have changed since then.
For what it is worth, ;-)
john h
Former two stroke pilot.
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/17/2005 5:14:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:
Problem was coked- on carbon on the top rings.... they were seized. Cleaned
it off the rings, out of the piston grooves, and off the piston crowns...
130 hours on Pennzoil air cooled.
Beauford,
I dont want to get anything started but were you using Seafoam
treatment and if so were you following their recommendations? Please, this
question is directed to Beauford only.
Ed ( in Hou. )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
Anyone out there????
No messages for 2 days.
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
<< Would like all the info. i could get on trailering Kolb , as I would
like to take in back and forth between Michigan and Florida ... >>>
Hi, Jim - Welcome to the List
Although you'll find this in the Archives, a short summary of the general
opinion on trailering a Kolb is: You'll want to support the tailboom with
something more robust than the stock Kolb wing supports. For extended
trailering, the stock wing support setup on our Kolbs just don't hold up.
Several members have devised their own tail dollies for this purpose.
Here is one idea: There are several others, as well.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil.02.12.2005/
Other than that, the Kolb's quick wing fold design is woderful for easy,
one-person setup/takedown. Good luck ... you made the right decision is
choosing a Kolb!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3 in
New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
I am going to leave one of mine stock and modify the other to the gear
drive Idea
what is this??? did i miss something
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JUDD LYNN <juddlynn(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Firestar landing gear upgrade |
I have a firestar that was built in 1994. It has the smaller landing gear legs.
I believe they are 1 1/8" in diameter. In deciding to change them, the factory
asked if I wanted to replace them with the heavier 1 1/4" diameter legs. These
are not only stiffer, but a bit longer, which I was told gives the plane more
stability on the ground. It looks like the larger ones will fit into the shafts
in the fuselage cage, since the old [smaller] ones had a sleeve around them
to make up for the difference in diameter. But I'm wondering if the additional
height is a problem. With the extra height at the front of the plane, but
unchanged height at the tailwheel, the angle of attack is greater, right? Is this
a problem, or an advantage? And what if I want to put on tundra tires? This
will make the front even taller. Thanks for any advice.
Judd Lynn
Firestar II
JuddLynn(at)sbcglobal.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Garvelink" <link(at)cdc.net> |
For anyone that is interested they have a reduction drive,(belt) that
will fit a cuyuna and others and has the ring gear and bosch starter
mount. It will make an us with electric start.
REDUCTION DRIVE, BELT REDRIVE . AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR TRADE . This is a
Brand New , never installed on anything Reduction drive , or redrive if
you like. This redrive can be used on many snowmobile or so called
aircraft engines including Rotax Kawasaki Chaparral Zenoah Suzuki Yamaha
and others used for aircraft , Powered Parachutes or Trikes. These
redrives have been installed on engines up to 97 horsepower and work
quite well , There are two ratios available 2.58 to 1 and 2 to 1 . The
redrive includes only what is in the picture , nothing else , no prop,
engine, radiator or exhaust . The list price of this redrive is $ 988.
Give me a call , make an offer over $ 500. please, only a couple left,
Please note , this redrive will not just bolt onto all engines listed
above , in many cases it will take some type of machining of some sort
or drilling holes in different locations .I will be happy to answer any
questions or help in any way i can. Many other redrives are also
available , try me , My 26 th year. . Contact Steve Beatty - AIRSCREW
PERFORMANCE located Glendale, AZ USA . Telephone: 623-842-3902 . Posted
July 12, 2005 . Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser . Recommend This
Ad to a Friend . Send a Message
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron wehba
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ultrastars
I am going to leave one of mine stock and modify the other to the gear
drive Idea
what is this??? did i miss something
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Thanks Rick Neilsen,
will contact you, I live close to you, just West of Eaton Rapids about 5
miles. Will try and get over Friday to see the Kolbs. thanks again.
Jim Swan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Hello Dennis,
Thanks for the info on trailering. will check out your site. I have
gone thru the archives and got some good information there on trailers. Will
now decide which model Kolb and engine size. Will soon start looking at some
that are for sale. I intend to take my time finding one that appeals to me, but
it sure is diffucult to not dive in and get started. At my age of 74 I am
not sure it is wise to procastanate, thanks again to you and the others that
have shared information... Jim Swan in Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: new member with questions |
Hello again Dennis,
Yes I did see pictures of the trailering dolly you built. Looked at it
again and it looks very good. Will want to talk with you about it in detail
when i get a Kolb purchased. thanks Jim Swan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Frantz <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
Have a friend that has an UltraStar for sale. Flyable, but needs some
attention to the covering. Has a 2SI engine with 190 hr.'s on it, air
frame has 1400+TT, BRS, strobe, nose pod, tundra tires, 3 blade IVO
prop, 2SI belt drive, Airspeed, VSI, CHT, EHT and Tack. Was asking $4,500.
His name is Wilmer Zimmerman, lives in Lancaster County, PA and his
phone is 717-354-9351.
Terry - Firefly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Kiev Hot Prop vs Ivo Prop |
A while back I mentioned that I was going to get the loan of a new Kiev Hot
Prop to compare with the Ivo Prop.
Today we got 'r done. Here is the data, forgive the long post.
The aircraft is a new FSII with a Rotax 582, E gearbox, 3:1 ratio.
Intake silencer, after muffler.
Ivoprop is 68" two blade.
Hot Prop is 67" three blade.
Static max rpm
Ivo 6150 Kiev 6130 (after an hour of adjusting)
Full throttle climbout at 50 mph:
Ivo unloaded to 6200-6230, Kiev unloaded to 6250
RPM
4600 Ivo 54 mph Kiev 50 mph
4800 Ivo 55 Kiev 52
5000 Ivo 60 Kiev 55
5200 Ivo 65 Kiev 62
5400 Ivo 69 Kiev 65
5600 Ivo 73 Kiev 70
5800 Ivo 77 Kiev 74
6000 Ivo 80 Kiev 78
Flying level at 5400 rpm and around 65-70, pulled up into a slight climb,
did not adjust throttle, the Ivo loaded the engine down to 4950, the Kiev
loaded it to 4750. The Kiev seemed to be more sensitive to changes in
attitude and angle of attack variations resulting in varied rpm's due to
prop loading. The Ivo was less sensitive, the rpm's stayed more constant.
The Kiev seemed to accelerate harder from a standstill than the Ivo, and at
full throttle climbout, the Kiev gave a consistent 1,000'/minute climb. The
Ivo climbed at between 800-1,000'/minute. The Kiev seemed better at
climbout, however, that might be a function of having three blades, and
therefore a finer pitch for each blade, which would turn it into a climb
prop anyway. I have found that three blade Ivo's accelerate and climb
better than two blade Ivo's so a two blade Ivo vs a three blade Kiev might
be an apples and oranges comparison.
Noise-
Takeoff -
The Kiev was quieter when standing beside the runway and listening to a
full power takeoff and climbout.
At high power settings, the Ivo could still be heard at a greater distance
from the field than the Kiev.
Flyby- standing by the runway, listening to a fly over -
At cruise power settings around 5400 rpm or greater, the Kiev is quieter.
At power settings below 5000, the Ivo is quieter.
In the cockpit -
The Kiev is just very slightly quieter, but now is a good time to discuss a
noticeable difference in the sound characteristics between the two props.
The Kiev is a more high-pitched droner/whiner noise and the Ivo two blade
is a growler. (I have used Ivo three blades, and they tend to be
droner/whiners too, this probably gets back to the difference between
two/three blade props)
In the cockpit there is only the smallest difference in the sound volume,
however the Kiev drone would get very annoying after a while, it would not
be a pleasant cross country prop. The Ivo has a more bass note, sort of
like a full size aircraft prop, and is less annoying. A good ANR headset
would probably make this a moot point.
Disclaimer - The Ivo was used with a 2' prop hub extension, the Kiev was
not, (we didn't have any prop bolts the right length) so this might be an
unfair comparison.
At low and cruise power setting fly-bys, the Ivo 2-blade makes the Rotax
2-stroke sound much like a 4 stroke, whereas the Kiev makes it sound very
"Ultralighty/2-stroke, very much the traditional 2 stroke noise." However,
this is probably more a characteristic of a two blade prop versus a three
blade prop rather than the design of the props themselves. (in my opinion)
The Ivo two blade is a smooth running prop, but the Kiev is notably
smoother. A very smooth prop.
My conclusions? The Kiev has a good noise reduction to the neighborhood,
but I would not want to fly with it unless I got an ANR headset.
Each has it's strengths and weaknesses, irrespective of the possible 2
blade/3 blade inequities.
The Ivo is WAY easier to adjust. The Kiev is tedious to adjust.
The Ivo gives good performance for the money.
Unless you have a neighbor situation, I would find it hard to justify
spending twice as much for a Kiev.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK3 High stall speed problem/Tail Wheel First Landings |
| Good point Richard, but..
| assuming any aircraft stalling at any speed, when I am in the flare
and the tail touches
| down it stops my elevator working and slams the front wheels into
the ground. (thnx Robert)
| I get the feeling I would have loved longer legs.
| To solve this I reverted to my favorite tailwheel landings: the
wheely.
| Peter
Peter/Gang:
Homer Kolb designed the MKIII to land and take off in a level
attitude. That is why you are hitting the tail wheel first when you
try to flare it to land.
Longer gear legs do not help much on the MKIII because the gear leg
sockets are such a flat angle.
We redesigned the main gear on my MKIII and she lands in a proper
three point stance.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
\>
> I am going to leave one of mine stock and modify the other to the gear
> drive Idea
>
> what is this??? did i miss something
>\
YEP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
Did you pay the rent?>>
Hi John,
must have done something right. Back to normal. 197 messages today. Not all
Kolb I hasten to add.
Cheers
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
If by accident you received a note from the Nigerian oil ministers
nephew; please forward it on to me along with your bank account number.>>
Hi Herb,
I did !. I did.! Unfortunately in my excitement, I deleted it.
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JUDD LYNN <juddlynn(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Radio antenna placement |
I'm flying a Firestar with a 447. I use a lap-mounted Icom A-5 and a David Clark
headset for com. I'm trying to find a good antenna type and placement. Some
suggest folded back beneath the cockpit, attached to the aluminum floor. Others
say maybe out on the wing or back on the empennage, pointed straight up. Still
another idea is to use a flat bi-pole behind the seat. It seems a larger problem
then I'd anticipated. Anyone have a good placement they'd like to share?
Thanks.
Judd Lynn
Firestar II
JuddLynn(at)sbcglobal.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Radio antenna placement |
In my M3X the antenna will be mounted as far forward in the nose pod on
the inside as I can. I have a small alum plate as an anchor base plate,
that also serves as ground. Trial and error till I find the quietest
static free area.
Ron
Arizona
=========================
On Jul 19, 2005, at 9:12 AM, JUDD LYNN wrote:
>
> I'm flying a Firestar with a 447. I use a lap-mounted Icom A-5 and a
> David Clark headset for com. I'm trying to find a good antenna type
> and placement. Some suggest folded back beneath the cockpit, attached
> to the aluminum floor. Others say maybe out on the wing or back on the
> empennage, pointed straight up. Still another idea is to use a flat
> bi-pole behind the seat. It seems a larger problem then I'd
> anticipated. Anyone have a good placement they'd like to share?
> Thanks.
>
> Judd Lynn
> Firestar II
> JuddLynn(at)sbcglobal.net
>
>
Have a great day!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Kiev Hot Prop vs Ivo Prop |
Richard,
Thanks very much for your work on the prop comparison. I'm getting ready to
go to a new prop and was wondering how the Kiev compared. I appreciate your
work.
AzDave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cat36Fly(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Another ultralite crash & Osh |
The Baltimoe, Md. news had a clip on an "Homebuilt" crash this evening. It
occured around Salisbury, Md on the eastern shore late this afternoon. The 80
yr old pilot was on his madin flight. That is all I caught but keep your eyes
open for more news.
Kolb is supposed to be there in force according to Travis and hopefully
there will be a MK lll X there. I am about 60 days from launching mine (N615RT)
and want to fly one before hand if possible. It will be interesting to see if
any other Delaware Kolbers show up (or even exist) .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
Larry Cottrel, i sure enjoyed reading your post doing some recon for your
upcoming elk hunting trip. I'm not a pilot yet, but appreciated the article
because of your utilizing your plane instead of a backbreaking trek through the
mountains. I've been following the Kolb list for a few weeks now, and
especially enjoyed the x-country post. Been looking at different planes, for about
a
year now. Checked out Sonex which i liked but, at 66 years of age now,
getting in & out of it will only get harder, especially for my wife. ( That is
if i
can ever get her to fly in a small plane.) Something low & slower seems to
appeal to me more, along with the easier access in & out of the cockpit. From
what i,ve read here, there are some pilots here my age & older. For me, thats
very encouraging! I got excited reading the story in Sport Pilot, july edition
about Steve Boetto,s Firefly on floats. That would sure work out at our Fl.
winter home which has lake access. Keep it at the house & use the lake for my
runway, love it! But then i start thinking how nice it would be to be able to
take a passenger to share it all with. Just not sure i can afford a new 2
seater with a 912, if i have to hangar it. I sure would appreciate hearing
from some of you , about your former planes, or just other planes you flew
before deciding on a Kolb. Enjoy the thread, best regards. Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic 447 Sin |
| I would use amsoil at the 50:1 factory recommendation.
If it has superior lubrication qualities & doesn't need to be
| mixed at the normal ratio, then you will just have extra insurance
if you do
| mix it at 50:1.
| Richard Swiderski
Richard/Beauford/All:
Changing fuel/oil mixture ratio also changes air fuel mixture. Not
much, but it will change it a little richer.
The manufacturer set the oil/fuel ratio for some reason. I do not
know what that is. I have heard that the crank bearings required a
certain ratio fuel/oil. That excess oil could cause as many problems
as too little oil. But that is strictly hearsay at this point.
There are several different brands of two stroke full sythetic oil
available in Wal*Mart. Most are for outboard motors, I think. I
haven't paid much attention to them because I have no use for the
expensive oil in my weed eater and chain saw. They do alright on el
cheapo Wal*Mart two cycle oil.
Think I would do some serious research, if possible, on switching to
full sythetic from organic two stroke oil. At least contact Rotax and
get their recommendation. For that matter, I'd contact several Rotax
folks: Ronnie Smith, Lockwood, and others. Some other good folks,
maybe, would be Sea Doo dealers. Seems that always have a contant
inventory of Rotax powered toys waiting for repair and overhaul.
If I was flying a two stroke, I'd be doing everthing I could to insure
that critter was going to keep on buzzing as long as we were flying.
I am sure full synthetic oil would be included.
As expensive as Rotax engines and parts are, and the fragility (?) of
my ass, I'd do extensive research prior to assuming the role of the
Rotax engineer.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
Titus, AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Two Stroke Oil/Full Synthetic |
Hi Folks:
Richard Pike has been using Phillips two stroke oil, with good
success, for a long time.
Found this article on Full Synthetic Phillips that was very
interesting. I think if I was two stroking it, I'd give this product
a go:
http://www.snowest.com/?pageID=46&ID=612&StartRow=1
I did a Google search for:
"Two stroke engines and full synthetic oil"
Resulted in a lot of good hits. Don't have time to sit here and read
all of them now.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "info" <info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com> |
Hi Kolbers,
Please look us up this year at Oshkosh, we'll be running the Polyfiber booth again
right in the middle of Building "A".
Thanks,
Jim & Dondi Miller
Aircraft Technical Support, Inc.
Poly-Fiber, Ceconite & Randolph Distributors
(Toll Free) (877) 877-3334
Web Site: www.poly-fiber.com
E-mail: info(at)aircrafttechsupport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
In a message dated 7/19/05 9:58:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
DCulver701(at)aol.com writes:
> Something low &slower seems to
> appeal to me more, along with the easier access in &out of the cockpit. From
>
> what I've read here, there are some pilots here my age &older. For me,
> thats
> very encouraging! I got excited reading the story in Sport Pilot, july
> edition
> about Steve Boetto,s Firefly on floats. That would sure work out at our Fl.
> winter home which has lake access. Keep it at the house &use the lake for my
>
> runway, love it!
Thanks for the compliment Dave. Let me know when you are in Fla. I really
enjoy hauling to a new area and sightseeing. I have found it to be more fun to
sit in my Toyota for an hour on the way to a cool place to fly than grind away
over woods and other hostile terrain. I also do not have to worry about the
weather closing behind me as well. As far as 2 place goes, I would probably do
a Firestar II on floats. It would still be easy to fold and trailer and would
feel like a One Holer for 95% that you fly alone.
Steve Boetto
FireFly #007 on Floats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Frantz <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
Just a reminder that Amsoil makes a 50 to 1 premix oil called
Interceptor. I'm sure other synthetic companies do the same for those
with injection systems. I too am one of those reluctant to go 100 to 1
as others do including my friend. I also like the idea of a blend,
that's why I mix a small amount of mineral oil with it, 15% now. I use
a blend in my cars also and feel I get the best of both worlds.
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
Hi Steve Boetto, yes i really enjoyed that article of your Firefly on floats
in the july edition of sport pilot. The concept of being able to keep the
boat at my house, (folding wings) , and use the lake as my runway is very
appealing. Our place is in Lake county, on lake Yale in Grand Island, Fl. Yes
i
would love to see your plane with the whole trailering process. I'll be sure to
give you a shout on the list when we get back down to Fl. Probably be in Nov.
sometime, as last year we came down the day after x-mas, and hit a big snow
storm which made for dangerous trip, won't do that again! Best regards, Dave
Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
Hello everyone. I have been reading the list for a while and I think I have
finally got a good lead on a M-III of my own. I am hoping to find someone in
the Des Moines Iowa area to look at it and give their opinion and also to
help me transistion into it. I have experiance with T bird and Challenger
with tricycle gear but no tail experiance. Any assistance would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
Chuck Stonex
N28JL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | N28JL M-III in Iowa |
Ok I got a little more info today. This M-III was built by Ron Marshall in
Anchorage Alaska around 1994. He got it the kit from Lakeland Ultralights
Inc (Florida?). Somehow it ended up with Jack Lundquist in Henderson Nev.
Then it became a garage orniment for an older gentleman in Dayton Ohio area
until recently when it was moved to Iowa.
It has been deregistered and did (does) have an airworthyness certificate.
I had all of these documents in my hand this afternoon so I know they are
right. This plane has 2 serial numbers, "001" according to an N number
search through Landings, and "LAK2" according to the builders plate under
the right verticle stabalizer. I was able to read some of the builders notes
and about some of his calls to Dennis Souder who I assume at the factory.
I'm guessing that maybe Dennis was "old" Kolb. His names shows up in the
builders manual as a tech or designer under the diagrams.
I'm still hoping to be able to talk to Ron Marshall or Jack Lundquist so
hopefully some one knows them and will pass this on.
I am very interested in buying this M-III if I can get all the right answers
and history. IF not I know where I can get a good deal on a Firestar I.
Thanks
Chuck Stonex
Des Moines IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil/Full Synthetic & Plugs |
I am now 646 hours without a decarbon. Never had the jugs off. I check every
50 hours or so (when I repaint my muffler) with a dental mirror and the
spark plugs out , intake/exhaust manifolds off.
I have a 503 dual-carb with an E-gearbox. This plane and engine is just a
little 6 years old. The engine is set up like it came out of the box minus
the fuel injection. I used the
Wallmart oil (dot 3) for all but 50 hours Pensoil for that 50. The only
carbon I see is a
little on the piston domes and some around the exhaust port where the
gasket sits because the gasket openings are smaller than the port opening.
I fixed that problem by cutting the gasket holes a little larger to match
the exhaust port hole.
Get a compression tester - $25. If your
rings are stuck your compression should be down from factory specs.
Mine are still 120 lbs - like new.
These 503's are tougher than you think if you run them a couple of hours a
week - that's only 100 hrs year.
And I'm not telling anyone not to decarbon their engines
<http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part47.pdf>http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part47.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FireFly for sale |
To All,
Bryan Melborn and I are making good progress on our mirror image FireFly
Float Planes. We have incorporated everything that we learned from the prototype
#007. I am going to offer the #007 for sale at Osh. 06. I would like to give
everyone on the Kolb list a head start. This is the FireFly that is featured in
the July Issue of Sport Aviation. Contact me offline if you are interested.
Steve Boetto
FF #007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cat36Fly(at)aol.com |
The "homebuilt" that went down yesterday on Marylands Eastern shore has been
reported as a "Hummelbird". I beleive this is a scratch built airplane
using only purchased plans.
The FAA is conducting an investigation according to the newspaper.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
In a message dated 7/20/2005 8:10:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:
> Shattered Beauford...
> FireFly lawn chair #076
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
At 08:16 PM 7/20/2005, you wrote:
>
>OK, Possum.... Smarty... go ahead... I'm down...kick me again... I can take
>it... Hell, I've been married 40 years this summer.... I can take
>anything....
>
>OK, Possum... you have my undivided, if somewhat inadequate, attention...
>Where did I fail...? What was the grand omission or commission that
>reduced me to this...? I pay my taxes.... I don't buy cheap cigars or
>cheap gin... What could I have done differently to get 646, hell even 246
>hours out of this miserable apparatus without being reduced to the smoking
>shell of a man you see prostrate before you tonight....? Hell, I'll drink
>the oil myself...! I beseech you, Sir.... Share..!
>
>Shattered Beauford...
>FireFly lawn chair #076
Just lucky I guess. I used to have trouble with my old 447 too,
if it makes you feel any better.
--------------------
>Tom - Should I decarbon the engine if I can't see any carbon.
What's the best way to check the rings??
From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
I usually reach in and push in on them with my finger. You should feel them
move. Really though, with that much time on it without any kind of
teardown, the engine doesn't owe you much. Since the time has been put on
fast, you have been able to do that long but even engines that get time fast
like that are probably likely to need at least some attention by 500.
I just talked to someone with a Drifter 503 this week who had a crank fail
at 500 hours and crack the crank case. The engine had never been apart and
all he ever did was run it. He and all his friends were speculating at what
could have caused the failure. To me it's pretty simple. Wear. His
buddies were going to be ragging him for forgetting his oil or something,
but the pistons were A ok, and the pistons will almost always fail in a
lubrication failure before the bearings.
If I was the one writing the TBO for the 503 I would put it at 450 because
that is about where I start seeing crank failures even with well kept
engines. Of course I see some with as little as 130 hours, but those are
either from a lot of storage or from constant over revving.
If I were to write it for the 447, it would be 600 hours and it would be
closer to 900 hours for the 377. I'm one that things the 300 hours is about
right for the 582 though. If you have had the opportunity to look at
various crankshafts in 2-stroke engines of this size you will notice that
the lower rod area on the Rotax crankshaft has much less slop side to side
and less of an area for lubrication to make it into the bearing. The 377
and 447 have a slit on either side of the lower rod, but the 503 and 582
only have a slit on one side. If you compare that to a Cuyuna 430 or some
other 2-stroke, the other two stroke will usually have more of the bearing
exposed to allow for better lubrication.
Now don't get me wrong. The Rotax engines are good engines and well proven,
but most things can be made better, and the crank seals, and lower rod
design is one area that could use improvement in my opinion.
Tom Olenik
Olenik Aviation
http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm
http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)telepath.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic 447 Sin |
> The manufacturer set the oil/fuel ratio for some reason. I do not
> know what that is. I have heard that the crank bearings required a
> certain ratio fuel/oil. That excess oil could cause as many
problems
> as too little oil. But that is strictly hearsay at this point.
Not at all.
http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/b-html/b011.htm
http://www.bearings.machinedesign.com/guiEdits/Content/BDE_6_4/
bdemech_a01-2.aspx
http://www.timken.com/industries/torrington/catalog/pdf/general/form
640.pdf
Excess lubrication in a ball bearing sets up a hyrodynamic wedge
that skids the ball, overheats the lubricant and galls the race(s)
leading to bearing failure.
The crank bearing used in the 503 is, I recall, a 6207, good for up to
11,000 rpm using oil lubrication at not more than 350F (assuming
52100 steel). That includes bearings with double seals that do not
receive an oil-mist type lubrication but are sealed (true, not used in a
two stroke application because one needs some degree of cooling
for the bearing in a two stroke). If you are coming anywhere near
350F on a crank bearing you've got other, more immediate
concerns!). At a paltry 6000 rpm, 54% of rated max, oil lubrication
required is at best minimal. The thinnest of films will suffice. At a
max rated load for this bearing (25.7 kN...appx 5700 pound-force)
the forces generated by a 503 come to about half of the rated
bearing capacity (obtained from some calculus involving
Experimental Stress Anlaysis from The Internal Combustion Engine
in Theory and Practice, Taylor, Vol 2.).
Crank bearings are the least of the issues. Wrist pin bearings,
because of the oscillating nature of their service, require sufficient oil
mist lubrication to dispose of heat and not because of any lack of
lubrication issues given an appropriate oil ratio....whether that be
100:1 or 50:1, using the oil manufacturers recommendation. These
units do not rotate, per se, and are not engineered to do so. Where
you do run into trouble is when the oil varnishes the race from
excessive heat and causes the rollers to skid, leading to galling and
eventual seizure.
Piston skirts and rings must receive lubrication but that is vanishingly
small as well. The majority of problems lie with insufficient/incorrect
cylinder choke and associated piston/ cylinder clearances. Witness
oil scraper rings on four strokes which lie at the bottom rung of the
piston lands. Just how much oil do you think is left for the top rings?
Not much.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
If you are flying a Challenger you will need medical assistance to wipe
the smile off your face after the first flight in a Kolb. No more chasin
your nose around the sky and rudders are reduced to almost an option for
flight. Everybody makes a big issue out of the Kolb being a tail dragger. It
rapidly becomes a non issue after the first flight. I transitioned myself
from a Cessna to a Kolb Flyer with just a tail skid ( No wheel). I just kept
it on the ground for 2 days of taxi tests until I was very familiar with the
ground handling. First flight was perfect. I have a friend that on his first
attempt at taxiing a Firestar managed to get airborne. He didn't panic just
remembered what I had told him. First words to me after he landed was " The
tail dragger part really is a non issue". Like I would lie to him :).
PS Your results may vary.
> Hello everyone. I have been reading the list for a while and I think I
have
> finally got a good lead on a M-III of my own. I am hoping to find someone
in
> the Des Moines Iowa area to look at it and give their opinion and also to
> help me transistion into it. I have experiance with T bird and Challenger
> with tricycle gear but no tail experiance. Any assistance would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks
> Chuck Stonex
> N28JL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
Tom,
Elaborate, if you will, on preventive as well as periodic proceedures and
short falls of the Cuyuna II-02. I am particularly interested in weaknesses
and pressure testing the crankcase.
Any other things that I should look out for. The factory reccomendation on
mixture is 40:to 1. I've noticed that most who run them have changed to
50:1. What is your feeling on this?
Dale Sellers
Georgia UltraStar
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin
>
> At 08:16 PM 7/20/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>OK, Possum.... Smarty... go ahead... I'm down...kick me again... I can
>>take
>>it... Hell, I've been married 40 years this summer.... I can take
>>anything....
>>
>>OK, Possum... you have my undivided, if somewhat inadequate, attention...
>>Where did I fail...? What was the grand omission or commission that
>>reduced me to this...? I pay my taxes.... I don't buy cheap cigars or
>>cheap gin... What could I have done differently to get 646, hell even
>>246
>>hours out of this miserable apparatus without being reduced to the smoking
>>shell of a man you see prostrate before you tonight....? Hell, I'll drink
>>the oil myself...! I beseech you, Sir.... Share..!
>>
>>Shattered Beauford...
>>FireFly lawn chair #076
>
> Just lucky I guess. I used to have trouble with my old 447 too,
> if it makes you feel any better.
> --------------------
> >Tom - Should I decarbon the engine if I can't see any carbon.
> What's the best way to check the rings??
>
> From: "Tom Olenik" <olenik-aviation(at)buyitsellitfixit.com>
> To: "possums"
>
> I usually reach in and push in on them with my finger. You should feel
> them
> move. Really though, with that much time on it without any kind of
> teardown, the engine doesn't owe you much. Since the time has been put on
> fast, you have been able to do that long but even engines that get time
> fast
> like that are probably likely to need at least some attention by 500.
>
> I just talked to someone with a Drifter 503 this week who had a crank fail
> at 500 hours and crack the crank case. The engine had never been apart
> and
> all he ever did was run it. He and all his friends were speculating at
> what
> could have caused the failure. To me it's pretty simple. Wear. His
> buddies were going to be ragging him for forgetting his oil or something,
> but the pistons were A ok, and the pistons will almost always fail in a
> lubrication failure before the bearings.
>
> If I was the one writing the TBO for the 503 I would put it at 450 because
> that is about where I start seeing crank failures even with well kept
> engines. Of course I see some with as little as 130 hours, but those are
> either from a lot of storage or from constant over revving.
>
> If I were to write it for the 447, it would be 600 hours and it would be
> closer to 900 hours for the 377. I'm one that things the 300 hours is
> about
> right for the 582 though. If you have had the opportunity to look at
> various crankshafts in 2-stroke engines of this size you will notice that
> the lower rod area on the Rotax crankshaft has much less slop side to side
> and less of an area for lubrication to make it into the bearing. The 377
> and 447 have a slit on either side of the lower rod, but the 503 and 582
> only have a slit on one side. If you compare that to a Cuyuna 430 or some
> other 2-stroke, the other two stroke will usually have more of the bearing
> exposed to allow for better lubrication.
>
> Now don't get me wrong. The Rotax engines are good engines and well
> proven,
> but most things can be made better, and the crank seals, and lower rod
> design is one area that could use improvement in my opinion.
>
> Tom Olenik
> Olenik Aviation
> http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/rotax.htm
> http://www.buyitsellitfixit.com/2si-engines.htm
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com> |
Group
Some time ago I searched the net and found that there are not that
many folks making 2 cycle mineral oil in this country. Many of them are
relablers. If that be true; How would we know when a bad batch of oil
is made? It could happen! Herb (sitting on his 447 that will not swing
a three blade 60 inch ivo--no matter the pitch. )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
At 11:10 AM 7/21/2005, you wrote:
>
>Tom,
>
>Elaborate, if you will, on preventive as well as periodic proceedures and
>short falls of the Cuyuna II-02. I am particularly interested in weaknesses
>and pressure testing the crankcase.
>Any other things that I should look out for. The factory reccomendation on
>mixture is 40:to 1. I've noticed that most who run them have changed to
>50:1. What is your feeling on this?
>
>Dale Sellers
>Georgia UltraStar
I don't know if Tom is still on the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
I know what u mean Woody.
If you are flying a Challenger you will need medical assistance to wipe
the smile off your face after the first flight in a Kolb. No more chasin
your nose around the sky and rudders are reduced to almost an option for
flight. Everybody makes a big issue out of the Kolb being a tail dragger. It
rapidly becomes a non issue after the first flight. I transitioned myself
from a Cessna to a Kolb Flyer with just a tail skid ( No wheel). I just kept
it on the ground for 2 days of taxi tests until I was very familiar with the
ground handling. First flight was perfect. I have a friend that on his first
attempt at taxiing a Firestar managed to get airborne. He didn't panic just
remembered what I had told him. First words to me after he landed was " The
tail dragger part really is a non issue". Like I would lie to him :).
PS Your results may vary.
> Hello everyone. I have been reading the list for a while and I think I
have
> finally got a good lead on a M-III of my own. I am hoping to find someone
in
> the Des Moines Iowa area to look at it and give their opinion and also to
> help me transistion into it. I have experiance with T bird and Challenger
> with tricycle gear but no tail experiance. Any assistance would be
greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks
> Chuck Stonex
> N28JL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
The old Beauford is back, I've missed your scarcastic wit and way with the
words. Keep up the good work. If you make it to Kentucky this Sept I will
have some Cuban cigars for ya.
>
> Compression tester you say... ? I had so much carbon in my cylinders I
> couldn't screw a compression tester into the holes with a sledge hammer
to
> get it started in the threads.... when light went into the hole it was
> absorbed and vanished....dental tools were bitten off at the handle when
> poked into those plug holes... when I removed the bolts, little black
> carbon
> fingers emerged from the ports and held the manifolds in place... NASA
has
> put out feelers to me as a prime source of re-entry heat shield
materials..
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
| Now that I have practiced this, I will know what to expect if the
silence happens unexpectedly and I won't panic. I now know the plane
glides and handles great with engine off. | Jim Hefner
Hi Jim H/Gang:
I agree with you 100%.
Thanks for sharing your practice.
I forget who wrote this on the Kolb List, but it was to the effect
that they would not take a chance practicing a dead stick landing,
possibly breaking the airplane. They would wait until it happened and
handle the emergency situation for the first time in an actual
situation with no prior experience. Ever since I read that I have
thought about it many times. I still think about it.
Much easier to practice dead stick landings at a 3,000 ft paved
airstrip than during the first actual unannounced engine out some
place a lot less desireable.
Take care,
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
he was yesterday.
----- Original Message -----
From: "possums" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin
>
> At 11:10 AM 7/21/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>>Elaborate, if you will, on preventive as well as periodic proceedures and
>>short falls of the Cuyuna II-02. I am particularly interested in
>>weaknesses
>>and pressure testing the crankcase.
>>Any other things that I should look out for. The factory reccomendation
>>on
>>mixture is 40:to 1. I've noticed that most who run them have changed to
>>50:1. What is your feeling on this?
>>
>>Dale Sellers
>>Georgia UltraStar
>
>
> I don't know if Tom is still on the list.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Synthetic 447 Sin |
Anyone using AV2 synthetic blend from California Power Systems? They advertise
it as being designed for Rotax engines, and approved by Rotax at 50:1 premix
or injected. The info mentions that it is formulated for use in "Dykes" ring
equipped Rotax engines. It's a proprietory 50/50 mix of synthetic and mineral
base. I've been using it in my injected 503, but only have 40 hours on the engine.
From what I can tell so far from plug condition, I'm not seeing much carbon
buildup.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic 447 Sin |
In a message dated 7/21/2005 10:38:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dlbigelow(at)verizon.net writes:
Anyone using AV2 synthetic blend from California Power Systems?
My partner & I have both been using AV2 for about 50 hours each. Mine is a
503 & his is a 582. Both are Firestar II's. No problems yet.
On the "Fly-UL" list there were a couple of experts who sais AV2 is not good.
We will continue to run it.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Synthetic 447 Sin |
In a message dated 7/21/2005 11:58:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HShack(at)aol.com writes:
On the "Fly-UL" list there were a couple of experts who sais AV2 is not good.
We will continue to run it.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
"said"
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
He didn't panic just remembered what I had told him>>
Chuck,
What did you tell him?. I am about to change from Challenger to Kolb and
have not flown a tail dragger since I sold the Thruster many years ago.
NB. The Challenger is not half as bad as this lot make out :-)
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
Pat
I think you might of direct this to the wrong guy but your right about one
thing, Challenger is a good plane. Golden Circle Air (T Bird) was 20 miles
away until they sold it last week and it moved to Liberty Iowa and everyone
flys T Bird here. It was a great plane for training but I do not want one in
my hanger. I'm just hoping I can find someone to help me get some time in
this M-III I am hoping to buy next week.
Chuck S
He didn't panic just remembered what I had told him>>
Chuck,
What did you tell him?. I am about to change from Challenger to Kolb and
have not flown a tail dragger since I sold the Thruster many years ago.
NB. The Challenger is not half as bad as this lot make out :-)
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Quiet Landings |
Don't come up short!! >>
Hope I am not teaching granny to suck eggs here but if you line up your
expected landing point with something on your plane, top of instrument
panel, end of nose cone, whatever, and the expected landing point climbs
above your mark, YOU WILL UNDERSHOOT .
Do not try to keep the points in line as you will slowly raise your
nose, lose speed and stall. Trying to stretch your glide can kill you.
Conversely, if the landing point slides DOWN you will overshoot and should
drop on more flap, sideslip, fishtail or whatever to lose height.
Congratulations. I have never had the nerve to turn off the engine in flight
unless something had already gone wrong.
Cheers
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tom o's recommended tbo for 447 |
| Either Wednesday or Thursday there was a post about engine overall
and
| maintenance seemly from Tom, listing the TBO of a 447 to be 600
hours and a
| 503 at a lower time.
|
| Was this a past quote someone put on the site???????
|
| Jimmy Hankinson
Morning Jimmy H/All:
Yes. Possum pulled it out of his or Kolb's archives.
I understand these TBO times are numbers Tom Olenik would recommend
based on his experience repairing them, if he were the Rotax engineers
in charge.
Tom's numbers are similar to mine, reference the 912 series. Rotax
recommends 1,500 hour TBO. I believe my 912ULS will see much more
time than that before it is torn down. Don Huff has well over 2,000
hours on his 912UL and still going strong.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
| Subject: | tom o's recommended tbo for 447 |
Don Huff has well over 2,000
hours on his 912UL and still going strong.
john h
Last time I ask him, he was over 2300 hours...and his is certainly the
hardest run 912 on the planet...full throttle, climb to 9-10K...leave
the throttle right where it was and cruise 2-2.5 hours, idle power push
the nose over decent (or spin it to get down quick) shut off for more
gas...I always shake my head...
Jeremy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
| I still don't like the idea of practicing engine outs with the
ignition off. If you misjudge the distance, you can thump the
airplane..... or worse, and I believe (if I survived) I would feel
really stupid if I wrecked my bird while practicing dead stick with an
engine that would still run.
There have been many times that I have adjusted throttle during a
glide to landing because I misjudged the distance. What's the old
saying in flying circles...."there are old pilots and there are bold
pilots but, there are no old, bold pilots".
|
| Steve
Hi Steve K/Gang:
I don't agree with your philosophy, but that does not matter.
Personally, I would rather take a chance of missing a 3,000 ft strip
and learn how to fly my MKIII engine out than do it your way.
I don't have any old sayings for you, but the example you used, above,
doesn't fit pilots that do realistic training in the eventuality that
the engine stops unannounced.
Again, to each his own.
john h
MKIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
Personally, I would rather take a chance of missing a 3,000 ft strip
and learn how to fly my MKIII engine out than do it your way.
I don't have any old sayings for you, but the example you used, above,
doesn't fit pilots that do realistic training in the eventuality that
the engine stops unannounced.
-------------------
Hi John,
If you have exactly the right circumstances to practice this, it would be
fun, and you'd gain valuable experience. No doubt about it. However, miss
that runway and end up in someone's yard, and you'll be hung out to dry for
being reckless. Imagine having to convince an average jury that turning off
the engine in your plane was a reasonable thing to do. Might as well just
plead guilty. You could still make a case that this slight risk is worth
taking, considering the knowledge that could be gained.
I would never have considered shutting off the engine of a plane before I
actually had an emergency situation. Now that I've logged a few minutes of
(flaming) glider time, I'm actually more open to doing some real glide
testing. Deep down, I think we don't really believe the plane will fly
without power until we see it first hand, then it's not as scary as it used
to be.
Cheers,
Rusty (starting to think SS-022 is a hurricane magnet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
Steve/John/Kolbers all,
This dead-stick thread is great, as it brings up a lot of valid
points. As a former CFI I'll agree there's no 'right' or 'wrong' way for
all circumstances, but for all but the unwilling I would demonstrate true
dead-stick landings with plenty of altitude and to a runway of excess
length. The students always remarked about the increase in glide without
the windmilling prop, and the slip practice which resulted (to lose the
excess altitude) was another side benefit. This is something that I feel
should be practiced in advance, and not left to luck should the engine quit
for whatever reason.
As someone once told me, "An airplane should never surprise you, but
it might disappoint you occasionally".
Ed in JXN (MI)
MkII/503
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kroll" <muso2080(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick
>
> <<<< that they would not take a chance practicing a dead stick landing,
> possibly breaking the airplane. >>>>>>
>
> It was me that said that John but you misunderstood. I had already had an
> unannounced engine out and subsequent forced landing and it seemed to me
> at the time it happened that the glide was steeper with the engine off.
>
> I still don't like the idea of practicing engine outs with the ignition
> off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Garvelink" <link(at)cdc.net> |
| Subject: | Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
Aw come on guys I used to know a flight examiner that used to randomly
shut the engine down take the keys out of the ignition and throw them
out the window. I think he had a spare in his pocket but that was a
random part of his flight test. Best to practice engine out over a
large flat airfield or salt flats.
Imho
srglink
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick
Personally, I would rather take a chance of missing a 3,000 ft strip
and learn how to fly my MKIII engine out than do it your way.
I don't have any old sayings for you, but the example you used, above,
doesn't fit pilots that do realistic training in the eventuality that
the engine stops unannounced.
-------------------
Hi John,
If you have exactly the right circumstances to practice this, it would
be
fun, and you'd gain valuable experience. No doubt about it. However,
miss
that runway and end up in someone's yard, and you'll be hung out to dry
for
being reckless. Imagine having to convince an average jury that turning
off
the engine in your plane was a reasonable thing to do. Might as well
just
plead guilty. You could still make a case that this slight risk is
worth
taking, considering the knowledge that could be gained.
I would never have considered shutting off the engine of a plane before
I
actually had an emergency situation. Now that I've logged a few minutes
of
(flaming) glider time, I'm actually more open to doing some real glide
testing. Deep down, I think we don't really believe the plane will fly
without power until we see it first hand, then it's not as scary as it
used
to be.
Cheers,
Rusty (starting to think SS-022 is a hurricane magnet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
| If you have exactly the right circumstances to practice this, it
would be
| fun, and you'd gain valuable experience. | Rusty
Rusty/Gang:
You guys are making a big deal out of shooting practice dead stick
landings.
Next time you have an engine out I hope you "have exactly the right
circumstances to practice this."
If you have doubts you can not make a 3,000 ft runway from 1,000 feet
AGL, engine off, you need all the help you can muster to survive as a
pilot of any kind of powered aircraft. The FAA Daily Accident Briefs
are full of engine outs, most of which are GA. Of course, we don't
hear of all the experimental and UL engine outs.
Couple weeks ago was the first dead stick I had shot in a longggggg
time. I must admit, that moment of apprehension/hesitation when I
reached for the kill switch. However, as soon as the 912 was shut
down and things got quiet, I was relaxed and certainly enjoyed the
flight and the landing. Was a good exercise which pointed out to me
how rusty I was shooting dead stick landings. With 3,000 ft to land
on, although way out of shape for it, I had plenty options of where on
that 3,000 feet of sod I wanted to touch down. I must make it a point
to get over to Wetumpka Airport more often and get and maintain
proficiency shooting dead stick landings.
I think proficiency is the word I have been looking for.
john h
MKIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin |
Dale,
That reply someone posted from Tom Olenick the other day was an old response
from Tom, the poster must have kept it in his computer and reposted it to
the list the other day.
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sellers" <dsel1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin
>
> he was yesterday.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "possums" <possums(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Two Stroke Oil - personal ruin
>
>
>>
>> At 11:10 AM 7/21/2005, you wrote:
>>>
>>>Tom,
>>>
>>>Elaborate, if you will, on preventive as well as periodic proceedures and
>>>short falls of the Cuyuna II-02. I am particularly interested in
>>>weaknesses
>>>and pressure testing the crankcase.
>>>Any other things that I should look out for. The factory reccomendation
>>>on
>>>mixture is 40:to 1. I've noticed that most who run them have changed to
>>>50:1. What is your feeling on this?
>>>
>>>Dale Sellers
>>>Georgia UltraStar
>>
>>
>> I don't know if Tom is still on the list.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
I have one observation that I would like to share with you on this tread.
When you shout down that engine you aren't locked in to a specific glide
ratio. In our Kolbs we have a very powerful tool that will allow you to
adjust your glide to get you to the exact landing spot you want, it is your
flaps. They will not extend your glide but they WILL shorten it. As for
slips they aren't real effective in our Kolbs. The first thing I did when I
had a engine out was establish what I figured was my best glide speed and
tried to figure were it would take me. From there I knew the maximum
distance I could go and used my flaps to get me to the exact spot short of
that maximum where I landed.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick
>
> |Best to practice engine out over a
> | large flat airfield or salt flats.
> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | 912S Rpm question |
John H and other 912S users,
A non lister with a 912S powered Extra and a Warp drive prop needs to know what
RPM to prop his 912S to at WOT level flight. He expects to see 90mph at 5300
rpm cruise, and does not get it.
Can all Mk-3 drivers (Both types) who run the 912S and Warp blades (Also both types
wide and tapered tips) let me know what performance they are getting so I
can forward the info to him.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3 PA, still working on hanger and not flying. :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
My actual dead stick experience was zero back in 1983 when I had to shut
down the engine due to my BRS chute (one of the first out there) falling out
of it's Velcro closed soft pack and trailing behind the airplane,
threatening to hit the pusher prop or wrap itself around the tail in as it
spun in the propwash. I was able to land on the runway that I took off from
and even able to stop without dragging the chute more then about 20 feet.
In 2002 I had my second engine out, this time due to a fuel pump failure in
an Aircoupe. This time I was just able to clear some powerlines and land in
a fairly decent field and due to shear luck missed the numerous big rocks
bumps and holes. Neither were fun and neither required anything of me but
to fly the plane near perfectly and touchdown soft and slow.
Over trees or other nasty terrain the same is going to be required, pick the
best looking spot, fly the plane near perfectly, and land as soft and as
slow as you can, aiming the ends of the wings at the big stuff and you at
the little stuff. If you are lucky the wing will bear the brunt of it and
you will survive the crash. If you are not lucky you will be really
smashed, or dead.
Practicing simulated or actual dead stick landings simply improves your
ability to judge how far you can glide, and to manage the energy you have so
that you do land at that best looking spot flying as slowly as you can. I
had practiced throttle closed "dead" stick landings fairly recently before
each of my real emergency landings. I am very glad I did.
I am not sure that having practiced real engine out landings would have
improved my results significantly. It would have given me a bit better
understanding of the airplanes performance, and I would have been able to
judge my landings a bit better. I certainly don't think that there should
be any danger to practicing real engine out landings for a competent pilot.
Pilots should only do this under good conditions, a fairly calm day, a nice
big runway, and no traffic around. Learning to make all your approaches
such that you don't use the throttle to bail you out in the end is probably
as useful, and I feel should be standard practice for Two-stroke,
auto-conversion and other "experimental" engine flyers. Long flat
approaches under significant power should be reserved for people flying
extremely reliable engines.
Christopher Armstrong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 912S Rpm question |
| A non lister with a 912S powered Extra and a Warp drive prop needs
to know what RPM to prop his 912S to at WOT level flight. He expects
to see 90mph at 5300 rpm cruise, and does not get it.
| Denny Rowe |
Denny R/Gang:
With any non-inflight adjustable prop:
5,500 rpm WOT (wide open throttle) straight and level flight.
That works out to about 5,200 to 5,300 rpm static WOT.
He may see 90 mph at 5,300 rpm as above. Barnaby Waffrain redesigned
the MKIIIC and came up with a streamlined Extra.
For my purposes, I can fly between 80 and 85 mph at 5,000 rpm. 5,000
rpm seems to be a comfortable cruise rpm for me and the airplane. The
MKIII flies well at 80 to 85 mph cruise.
john h
(Prejudiced to the MKIIIc I have been building and flying since 1991.)
PS: Those same numbers apply to the 912UL engine also.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)AOL.com |
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
Hi Steve, read your post on locating Lake Yale on your map. Our place is on
the N.W. corner of the lake, just above a big Baptist retreat, off of Hy. 452.
Its called Sunlake Estates, a retirement community with approximately 250
homes. There is a marina with about 40 boat slips, with the boat ramp being a
short distance away. There,s also a public dirt ramp directly adjascent to our
community. Should be easy to spot. Best regards, Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Kolbers:
I have had three dead stick landings.
1 - In the pattern on downwind, unexpected engine out, landing no problem
2 - just took off from short grass strip, unexpected engine out, landing no problem.
3 - just took off from my grass strip, "kind of" expected engine out, turned back
but was high. Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps
and just dove. Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.
It is amazing how that big fan keeps the pilot cool. When it stopped it got very
warm!
Jim
Mark III
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
I told him that if something happened like getting unexpectedly airborn
don't panic just fly the plane. He was a pilot but it still took him 3
passes to figure out the right approach to land. No panic to get it back
down just kept flying untill he got things figured out.
Perhaps I am to used to Kolbs. Flying a Challenger was the most
frighteneing experience I had had in years. I was not prepared for the extra
rudder needed to stop a turn. These planes need rudder or it won't get out
of a turn, The extra stiff rudder pedals and lack of concern about rudders
in the Kolb had me circling for 10 minutes (felt like hours) trying to
figure out what to do next. Finally a hard kick to the rudders got some
movement and I straightened up. Quite frightening. I tried another
Challenger that day with the same result and need for rudder. Still could
not keep the nose from wandering around. I do understand the aircraft
exported to the UK have bigger rudders and may be less needy of rudder
input.
You're going to love the Kolb
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa
>
> He didn't panic just remembered what I had told him>>
>
> Chuck,
> What did you tell him?. I am about to change from Challenger to Kolb and
> have not flown a tail dragger since I sold the Thruster many years ago.
> NB. The Challenger is not half as bad as this lot make out :-)
>
> Pat
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
I am actually very excited about flying this M-III. I talked to one of the
orginal builders and got a very positive history. He actually told me what
the plane was like. the only thing different was that according to him it
had aluminum diamond plate on the floor. Now it has smooth aluminum for some
reason. There are no indications of damage so maybe someone need the diamond
plate for something else. I do want to get rid of the 618 on it though. See
if I can get a 582 or equivilent.
Chuck
I told him that if something happened like getting unexpectedly airborn
don't panic just fly the plane. He was a pilot but it still took him 3
passes to figure out the right approach to land. No panic to get it back
down just kept flying untill he got things figured out.
Perhaps I am to used to Kolbs. Flying a Challenger was the most
frighteneing experience I had had in years. I was not prepared for the extra
rudder needed to stop a turn. These planes need rudder or it won't get out
of a turn, The extra stiff rudder pedals and lack of concern about rudders
in the Kolb had me circling for 10 minutes (felt like hours) trying to
figure out what to do next. Finally a hard kick to the rudders got some
movement and I straightened up. Quite frightening. I tried another
Challenger that day with the same result and need for rudder. Still could
not keep the nose from wandering around. I do understand the aircraft
exported to the UK have bigger rudders and may be less needy of rudder
input.
You're going to love the Kolb
----- Original Message -----
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa
>
> He didn't panic just remembered what I had told him>>
>
> Chuck,
> What did you tell him?. I am about to change from Challenger to Kolb and
> have not flown a tail dragger since I sold the Thruster many years ago.
> NB. The Challenger is not half as bad as this lot make out :-)
>
> Pat
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Torsional Resonance & Drive Trains |
Kolb Gear Heads:
Below is an article I found on torsional resonance which is an
incredible insight into what is lurking in all our engines. It's a
fascinating story. If you are building or modifying a reduction drive this
will be a sobering read. All others, it will give you an appreciation of
the engineering that makes our fun possible. I don't know where I
originally acquired this, so I can't give due credit to the author.
PS: In this article, there is an illuminating insight into spag clutches
that we were wondering about a while back.
Richard Swiderski
SlingShot Turbo Suzuki still in the oven.
PROPELLER DRIVE SYSTEMS AND TORSIONAL VIBRATION
Don brings his unique experience in testing of aircraft to these pages. A
graduate of Northrup University and life long interest in new aeronautical
concepts, his concerns for safety and progress of auto engine conversions
prompted this article. Hopefully, his information will create a better
awareness of the engineering challenge facing experimenters in modern
aircraft power plant development. We welcome additional articles on the
subject. MCM
By Donald P. Hessenaur
As aircraft engine prices continue to rise beyond the reach of most who
would like to build and fly their own aircraft, many are turning to
alternate power sources. This is not a new phenomena. From the Wright
brothers on, many have designed, built or converted engines to aircraft use.
At one time or another engines have been used from automobiles, motorcycles,
outboard motors and even snowmobiles, with varying degrees of success or
failure.
AUTO ENGINE CONVERSIONS
Today many automotive engine conversions are appearing on the aviation
scene. They are definitely a viable alternative. The automotive engine today
is veny advanced technically and relatively low in cost when compared to
Lycomings and/or Continentals. Unfortunately, automotive engines are
designed and optimized for the automobile and not for aircraft. Generally
auto engines operate at a much higher RPM. The torsional vibration
characteristics of a given engine, connected to a transmission, drive train
and wheels, are quite different from that of the same engine, connected to
an aircraft propeller. The damping action of the tires on the road and the
inertia effects of the mass of the automobile are not even close to the
damping/inertia effects of a propeller turning in air.
TORSIONAL RESONANCE
In recent years, I have developed a concern that many of the individuals
and/or companies involved in the development of auto conversions do not seem
to have an understanding of the problem of torsional vibration. I'm
notsaying that this is true in every case. Some appear to have a profound
knowledge of torsional vibration but others seem to dismiss it as a minor
problem. They feel all they need to do is just stick in a rubber damper,
freewheel clutch or some other quick fix and maybe the problem will go away.
My experience has been that torsional vibration just doesn't go away. It can
be the life or death of an entire project, not only technically, but it can
also lead to a financial black hole for the individuals or company involved!
The potential for success in such a project would be much higher if the
individuals involved knew what they were dealing with and would use valid
aircraft engineering procedures during the design and development of an
engine. Creativity and experimentation should be encouraged but one must
also realize that 9 times out of 10, what was thought to be a new and
original solution to a problem has probably been tried by a number of people
in the past. The same laws of physics, dealing with torsional vibration, are
still in effect today, as they were 20 to 50 years ago. I would be the first
to admit. I do not have all the knowledge on vibration in rotating systems.
Nevertheless, I have had some unique experiences with tonsionals and other
associated vibration problems. It is my hope that by relating them, someone
will be saved from some grief.
FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE
in the past I have had the opportunity to have worked on three interesting
projects each of which involved torsional vibration problems to one degree
or another The first was the Avian 2-t80 gyroplane which was developed in
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada in the early 60's. The performanoe and handling
of this gyroplane has not been surpassed by any other in its class to this
day. The second was the BD-5 'Micro" kit aircraft developed in Newton,
Kansas by Jim Bede in the early 70's. The third was the RotorWay RW-133
helicopter engine developed by B.J Schramm in the mid-70's.
AVIAN VIBRATION ENCOUNTERS
The Avian gyrocopter was a pusher design with a ducted Hartzell propeller.
The rotor was an articulated 3 bladed semi-rigid, high inertia design. For
this reason, a substantial drive system was required for rotor spin-up. On
the original prototypes there was a 3 inch wide, heavy duty,square toothed
belt that transmitted engine power from a smaller driver sprocket to a large
driven sprocket at the base of the rotor hub. Occasionally, during a
spin-up, this belt was stretched by some horrendous load so that the belt
teeth would no longer engage the teeth on the driven sprocket causing the
belt to ride up on top of the sprocket teeth. The resulting high load on the
sprockets caused the structure that supported the bearings to collapse (A
round toothed HTD type belt would have eliminated the riding up problem of
the square tooth belt but it had not as yet been developed in the early
60's.)
About this time, Avian started to develop and build their last prototype. It
was totally redesigned and much improved in every way over the previous
prototypes. One area of improvement was the rotor spin-up system The upper
belt width was increased to 4 inches and the structure that supported the
sprocket bearings was made more substantial. A new hydraulic multi-plate
clutch was designed with more torque capacity and mounted over the engine
near the propeller end. This improved drive gave the new prototype
absolutely phenomenal jump take-off performance. The gyroplane was capable
of jump take-off to 50 ft. The problem of the upper bed drive had been
solved by the brute strength approach, using a stiffer support structure
along with a wider belt and sprockets. Nevertheless, as time went on other
problems started to show up. The lower belt drive, that took power off the
engine seemed to flop a lot at various times. After a few spin ups the
clutch would become very hot and eventually turn blue in color. If the
cowling was removed, immediately after a spin-up the clutch would appear to
have been red hot. The torsional loads going through the drive system
appeared to be much higher than the original analytical numbers indicated. I
had heard about torsional vibration during my college years but at the time
it never hit me that the problem with the drive system involved torsional
vibration. As far as I know, the clutch problem was never solved.
FLUTTER & VIBRATION TESTING
While at Avian I was assigned to work with a consultant who was hired to do
ground vibration testing and a flutter analysis on our new prototype. This
was a relatively new technology and he was the only person who did this kind
of work at the time. Although he was from Tononto, Canada, he worked
throughout the American aerospace industry. His equipment included a number
of vibration shakers that were attached to the airframe, making it vibrate
at various input frequencies. The shakers were controlled from a control
panel. A number of magnetic vibration sensors were attached to the airframe,
along with one that was hand held, so it could be moved around. These
pickups were used to sense the resulting amplitudes of vibration at various
points on the airframe. This information was then displayed on an
oscilloscope. He was able to adjust the input frequency, so that various
parts of the airframe would vibrate at their respective resonance frequency.
The needles on the instruments, the door handle, the plexiglass in the side
window, a duct support struct or the rudder could all be made to vibrate at
their individual resonance frequencies. It was really weird. In fact, it
appeared downright mysterious to see this engineer adjust the input
frequency and shake any part he wished on the airframe.. He made a frequency
survey of everything that resonated on the gyroplane. This was used to
determine if anything resonated within the operating frequency range of the
engine, drive system or rotor, that might cause a failure in the future.
With this analysis, we found a number of parts that needed to be stiffened
or redesigned so they would not vibrate or flutter in flight.
During the 3 days I worked with this engineer as his assistant, I received a
wealth of knowledge about vibration and resonance in aircraft.
BEDE AIRCRAFT
I was interviewed and offered an engineering position with Bede AincraH by
Burt Rulan. My employment started on July 6, 1972. After the Avian years, my
interest in the entire subject of vibration expanded and I became fully
aware of torsional problems in rotating systems. Many spare hours were spent
hitting engineering texts and reading numerous articles on the subject,
including many by Molt Taylor. I was really curious as to how they had
solved the torsional vibration problem in the BD-5.
During the finst week at Bede, Les Berven was flying the BD-5 every day.
When it would come down aher a flight, the mechanics would open up the
engine compartment to take a look to see what was going on It wasn't long
before I realized there were a number of problems they were laying to deal
with. The engine was having cooling and mixture problems while trying to
maintain the EGTs and CHTs below redline. The problem that really caught my
attention was the overheating of the belt and sheaves.
At that time they were running a snowmobile belt on variable ratio sheaves.
The overheating clutch at Avian came to mind when I noticed these sheaves
were quite discolored from the high temperatures involved.
TORSIONALS AT BEDE
During the following weeks they seemed to be doing a lot of ground testing.
I had been assigned the responsibility for the weight and balance control
for the BD-5 program, as I had done at Avian. Like the Avian 2-180, the BD-5
had a severe aft CG problem. One day they had been running the BD-5's engine
on the ground for a period of time and all of a sudden there was a big
explosion. The belt had disintegrated, with pieces all over the tarmac.
These pieces of belt were as hard and bridle as bakelite plastic. As soon as
I saw what happened, I knew the problem was torsional resonance. I mentioned
this to the other engineers and they looked at me sort of strange. They
thought I was joking and did not pay too much attention to my comment, since
I was just the new engineer.
HTD UNIROYAL BELT
Soon after the belt incident some belt people were invited to come and look
at our situation The representatives brought a number of belts such as
standard V, poly V and various toothed belts. One belt that I had never seen
before, caught my eye. It was a unique round toothed belt, an 6mm HTD belt.
Aher all the problems associated with square toothed belts at Avian, when I
saw that round toothed belt, I knew this was an exceptional design. It could
be used on an aircraft and give much more reliability than one with square
teeth. Best of all, the power loss was exdremely low, since it ran at low
friction levels, resulting in considerably less heat buildup
About this bme I was asked to start investigating various belt systems and
get involved in the drive system and engine installation problems. Along
with this assignment, I continued to head up a weight reduction program,
particulafiy in the aft part of the ship. It was my intent to not only solve
the drive system and engine installation problems but to save weight in
those areas as well. Anything that could be done to remove weight, aft of
the CG, would permit lead to be removed from the nose. So started working on
a new drive system, using the 8mmHTD belt. Once it was put together and
running, it seemed at first to perform quite well, but I soon noticed there
was a lot of flapping of the belt at certain RPMs. We tightened the belt as
much as we could but the flapping just seemed to persist. Nevertheless, it
seemed to solve the problem for the moment and Les Berven put in a lot of
flight time. Eveny once in a while we would have a failure but we would
replace or repair the part and keep going. During this time we actually had
more of a problem with the snowmobile engine. Various magazines were coming
out with articles on the BD-S. It was becoming very popular and kit sales
were climbing.
ENGINE MOUNT FAILURE
One significant event that occurred was the failure of the engine mount due
to fatigue. The mount was welded upchrome-moly tubing and had a strange
crystallized break. When I saw it, I knew it had something to do with the
torsional vibration that was still in the system. A new heavier piece of
tubing was welded in to make it stronger and beefier but during the next few
flights it proceeded to break again. At this point a new heavier engine
mount was fabricated and installed but soon after another failure occurred.
This time the engine mount survived but the sheet metal channels that
transferred the engine load into the fuselage, along with portions of the
fuselage itself,were severely cracked. Also, numerous rivets were starting
to work loose in the airframe. All that we had accomplished was to transfer
and chase the problem from one area to another. The torsional problem was
still with us. The biggest problem I had was that no one would believe me.
At least the belt was holding up and no longer a problem.
MYSTERIOUS SHAFT FAILURE
The drive system difficulties were totally overwhelmed by the problems with
the two stroke engine. To keep the planes flying for demonstrations and air
shows, we were forced to place the highest priority on keeping the engines
running. (If only the Rotex 562 had been available, we might have eliminated
a major problem with the BD-5!) Cooling was a real difficult problem and one
evening I and many of the engineering personnel stayed almost all night to
find a solution. Burt was really frustrated with this cooling problem. In a
last ditch effort, he got one of the giant portable electric shop fans,
hooked it up to a large duct and then attached the duct to the open BD-S
engine compahment. He felt if we couldn't get the engine to cool properly
with this fan, there was no way we were going to get it to cool in the air.
We ran the engine at full power and cycled the engine off and on a number of
times. All of a sudden during one of the runs, something broke loose and the
engine immediately went up to a very high RPM and seized. We found the
propeller could turn freely without turning the drive belt or the engine. We
looked all around and through everywhere and couldn't see where any break
had occurred. No shaft had broken, nothing had failed that we could see. It
was a real mystery.
BD-S HTD belt drive components Tests were run on various belt widths to
establish useful life recommendations.
The drive system we had at that time used the HTD belt with the original
upper main shaft. If I remember correctly, the O.D. of this shaft was about
3 inches and approximately 4 feet long. I am not sure of the wall thickness
but it may have been .125 inches. This shaft had a machined bearing support
fitting on each end, with the propeller mounted on the rear hub fitting and
the HTD sprocket mounted on the front sprocket fitting. These end fittings
were mounted to the inside diameter of the shaft, with three AN-4 bolts on
each end, screwed radially into the shaft. The bolts were quite short so the
threads went right up to the head, placing threads right in the shearing
intersection between the fittings and the shaft itself. It was these 3 bolts
at each end that transferred the torque from the HTD sprocket to the
propeller hub at the rear. This was the configuration of the upper shaft
when I arrived at Bede. Having bolts transfer torque in shear through the
threaded area is not exactly a textbook design procedure but it had held for
a year or more.
TORSIONALS STRIKE AGAIN
So we got the mechanic and started taking everything apart. When we pulled
out the upper shaft, we found that all 6 bolts, 3 on each end, had failed
precisely at the same time Now this was weird or like black magic. You would
think that if something was going to fail, maybe the rear end would be ready
to go but the front end might break loose first, relieving the load, then
the back end would not fail. But no both ends of the 4 foot shaft failed
precisely at the same bme, with all 6 bolts failing the same way. They were
all crystallized and appeared to have been working in there for some time.
By this time, Burt and the others had become believers in torsional
resonance. Immediately we got on the phone, woke Jim Bede up and clued him
in on what had happened. Within a week or so Jim brought in Al Beaufrere, a
vibration expert from Long Island. I was assigned to work with him to solve
the torsional problem. He came up with two different test drive systems.
They were quite heavy and complicated but they did give us a direction in
which to go. While Al was at Bede, I tried to learn all I could from him.
This knowledge: combined with what I had picked up previously, gave us the
insight that eventually led to a solution to our dilemma.
THE MOLT TAYLOR DYNAFLEX SYSTEM
After Al left, I started to design a new drive system, using the principles
learned. It was about this time that many of the engineering staff were
moved into the new Bede Product Development building. I was given an office
withan other engineer named Larry Heuburger, who belive helped design the
Derringer twin engine airplane. Larry knew Molt Taylor quite well and was
able to persuade Jim Bede to let him design and build a small dynaflex
coupling out of aluminum. I must say he did a beautiful job and came up with
a real neat small dynaflex, which mounted right onto the engine. They used
it with the HTD belt system and large upper shaf that I had running at the
time. Ot appeared to successfully dampen out the torsional vibration. At the
same time they were testing the dynaflex system I was coming right along
with the design and fabrication of my new drive system.
I forget just how long they flew the Molt Taylor system but one day an in
flight failure occurred and Les had to deadstick the plane in. With all the
engine problems this was quite a common occurrence so it was no big deal. It
was found that the dynaflex had broken loose from the engine. A closer
examination revealed that the crankshaft had broken clean off. The break was
completely crystallized and it was difficult to discern whether it was a
torsional break or a lateral break. We were not able to determine why this
failure occurred. It may have been due to the rocking couple of the engine.
Unfortunately, this failure ended funkier work on the dynaflex system.
THE BROOMSTICK SHAFT
I had come to the conclusion, based on the information from Al Beaufrere,
that we needed to drastically lower the torsional frequency of the drive
system by lowering its torsional spring constant. Stan Welles, our stress
analyst, came up with a 6061-T6 aluminum shaft, with an outside diameter of
1 inch and a .095 inch wall thickness. This shaft came to be known as our
"broomstick shaft". The same tubing size was used for both the upper main
shaft and the lower jackshaft. Very soft rubber, donut type flexible joints
were mounted on each end of the jackshaft. This lower shaft assembly
transferred the power from the engine to the lower HTD sprocket while
allowing for engine motion. The sprockets were made of a rag-filled bakelite
type plastic by the Budd Corporation and are no longer available. They had
wear characteristics, designed to be compatible with the HTD belt and had
considerably less wear than anodized aluminum sprockets. Also they were
lighter in weight. The lower sprocket was mounted on an adjustable casting
that was mounted on the rear bulkhead of the engine compartment. The belt
went up to the upper sprocket, which was attached to the forward end of the
upper shaft.
The drive ratio was 1.6 to 1.0. Bearings within the sprockets took the belt
loads, which were relatively low since the belt was not preloaded. There was
no need to have a tight belt with a torsionally soft system. Since the upper
main shaft was only 1 inch OD, two bearings were mounted along its length to
tune out lateral vibrations. Another bearing was mounted off the rear hub to
take out the propeller loads. (Later, after I left Bede, Dan Cooney added
another bearing towards the rear, to more effectively take out gyroscopic
propeller loads )
FRlCTlON JOINTS
The shaft end fittings on the lower jackshaft and the propeller hub on the
upper shaft were attached with press-shrink friction fits. The fitting for
the upper sprocket on the forward end of the upper shaft was a removable
collet type friction fit. These friction fits were more than sufficient to
carry the torque of the engine and were one of the design guidelines given
to me by Al Beaufrere for joints subject to torsional vibration. This was a
very, very lightweight system. The weight of the entire drive system was
reduced by over 40 percent and this went a long way towards solving the aft
CG problem in the BD-5. For test purposes, the prototype drive systems were
designed and fabricated with zero safety factors. The first version of the
"broomstick' drive did not have a freewheel clutch and when we first ran the
system, we found out there was still much to be learned before the torsional
problem was solved.
LOW FREQUENCY TORSIONALS
The vibration characteristics of the new prototype system was quite
different from the previous systems. One could tell something radical had
changed. The resonant point had been lowered below 600 RPM, the starting RPM
of the engine. With such a low frequency and high amplitude of vibration, it
was possible to visually hear and see the resonance occurring. One could see
torque reversals occurring at the prop. The aircraft would violently shudder
and shake itself apart, if allowed to continue. As the throttle was
advanced, the RPM would get hung-up at the torsional point. Les could give
it full throttle and it would just soak up all the energy from the engine,
preventing the RPM from going through the torsional barrier. Occasionally,
more by chance than anything, the RPM would pass through the resonance and
then become super, super smooth. Likewise, when the engine was shutdown, the
RPM would momentarily hang-up at the resonance point. All of a sudden, the
plane would shudder and shake until all the energy of momentum was used up.
Then the propeller would stop rather abruptly. It was the weirdest thing.
Although we were successful in moving the torsional resonance point to a
lower energy level, we had not eliminated the problem. Numerous experiments
and tests were tried. At times, we were able to go into resonance with the
ignition and fuel off using only the electric starter. About the same amount
of shudder and vibration was produced through the aircraft when excited by
the engine compression alone, as it did when the engine was running under
its own power in resonance. At this point, we started to realize we had
something here that was really mysterious. This led to an experiment where
we replaced the two spark plugs with compression release valves, hooked up
to a common control handle. With the engine and system turning over using
the starter alone, the vibration and shudder in the plane instantly
disappeared and became as smooth as silk, as soon as we opened the
compression release valves. As soon as we would close the valves, the
vibration and shudder would return. We could start and stop the resonance at
will. Clearly, it could be seen that the resonance could be excited by
compression strokes alone. The thing that blew our minds was that even when
the input energy was low, the output loads were still as destructive to the
airframe as when the input energy was high
INFINITE LOADS?
When we started to look into torsional resonance theory we found an
explanation. Without any damping in the system, theoretically the peak load
at resonance reaches infinity. That's why the input load had very little
effect on the output load. Now many have said that it was just theoretical
and there isno situation where any material would have zero damping
qualities. Well, how much was the damping effect? We do not really know at
this point. If the damping were to bring the load down to one tenth of
infinity, that would still be a big load. What I am getting at is this: The
loads are very high during resonance and are not entirely dependent on the
input load.
THE FREEWHEEL CLUTCH
The idea for the freewheel clutch came from our machinist, Ray Johnson, and
I must give him the credit.
He came in one day and told me that when he was a kid, his dad had a
thrashing machine on the farm They would run the belt from the tractor to
the thrashing machine and it had a freewheel device on it so that any
vibration coming from the old two cylinder John Deere would be somehow taken
care of. The minute he said "freewheel clutch", it rang a bell. After
previously seeing the oscillating torque reversals of the prop I knew we
needed some way to allow a torque reverse to occur without the bounce back.
I had been looking at centrifugal clutches, manual clutches, etc. that could
be used to disengage and allow some slip. We even tried a test with a super
loose belt with idler pulleys but the slop still wasn't enough. The
torsional amplitude was just too great at the low system frequency we were
dealing with.
Immediately after Ray mentioned the freewheel clutch, I started
investigating and found a Borg Warner clutch that was used in automatic
transmissions It was a double cage, full phasing sprag clutch. The double
cage caused all the little cams inside to engage precisely at the same time.
I had previously had experience with freewheel roller type clutches at Avian
but we had problems with the brinelling of the clutch races when one roller
would engage before the others and momentarily take the full torque, causing
eventual clutch failure. The doublecage full phasing, sprag clutch solved
this problem.
It took a month or two to design and have the clutch parts made. The clutch
itself was mounted on the front of the upper plastic sprocket. It had its
own bearing to maintain the clutch concentricity. The inner clutch race was
integrated with the collar that transferred the torque to the upper 1"
shaft. The heat treat for the clutch races and collet was somewhat
complicated and expensive but at that point we weren't looking at the cost,
as much as just trying to find something that was lightweight and workable.
At that time I was under tremendous pressure at Bede to try to get this
system working. After a lot of hard work the parts were made, Everything
went together beautifully and the clutch was mounted in the airplane. About
that time, our engine company had some problems and we could not get any
engines. I had the drive system in the ship shortly after New Years but it
sat until sometime in March before we were able to get an engine to test it.
So, I was sitting that whole time wondering if it would work. Finally the
engine arrived. The mechanics installed it and started it up. It was super
smooth. There was no sign of any shudder or vibration in the aircraft due to
orsionals. The first tests were so successful that Les took the plane up. He
came back with a big smile on his face and told us it was the smoothest
drive system he had ever flown. Jim was relieved and happy, like, real
happy! We had solved the torsional problem.
Dyno test stand used for RotorWay engine development, air show
demonstrations,
and producting engine run-ins.
DUAL FREQUENCY SYSTEM
According to theory when the stiffness of a given system goes to zero, the
resonance point also goes to zero RPM. With the freewheel clutch, the
torsional frequency would go to zero whenever a torque reversal occurred For
that moment in time, the RPM would then be above the resonance point and the
engine would have no problem powering up into the operating RPM range. In
this regard,the BD-5 soft system with the freewheel clutch was a passive
dual frequency system, that functioned much like the active dual frequency
system used in the Continenta Tiara family of geared aircraft engines
FREEWHEEL CLUTCH - PARTIAL SOLUTION!
It must be understood that the freewheel clutch is only part of the solution
to the torsional resonance problem. Lowering the resonant point below the
starting RPM of the engine is the other essential part of the solution.
Simply installing a freewheel clutch in a system, where the torsional
resonance point is still in the operating range, may give the appearance of
success for the short term but not for the long term. In a low frequency,
torsionally soft system like that developed at Bede, the clutch chatter
frequency is low and the amplitude of rotational vibration is high, as the
RPM passes through the resonance point. Also, this occurs at the point when
the engine is just about to start and the energy level in the system is
quite low.
Exerpt from professional Rotorway operation and maintenance manual which
contains detailed step by step instructions. This photo shows a setup for
checking drive pulley run-out. A model publication for auto conversions
It is true, the loads can be very high at the resonance point, but this
occurs during a torque reversal which disengages the clutch and causes these
loads to go to zero. These characteristics are good for long clutch life,
which means a smaller clutch with a lower capacity is all that's required.
This saves both weight and cost. On the other hand, in a higher frequency,
torsionally hard system, the clutch chatter frequency is high and the
amplitude of rotational vibration is low. With this type of system, the
energy level is high. These characteristics tend to shorten clutch life. A
system of this type will require a clutch with a much higher capacity, since
torsional resonance is still a problem. The clutch and all other drive
system components will then be subject to limited life considerations. I
know of many who have tried using a freewheel clutch in a hard system as the
solution to the torsional resonance problem, but I do not know any who have
succeeded in the long term. For these reasons, I can not recommend the use
of a freewheel clutch with a torsionally hard system
161 photos and 10 drawings throughout the manual fully illustrate the
operation and maintenance of the RW133 engine. This picture suggests an
acceptable method for installing the engine in the airframe.
LATERAL VlBRATlON PROBLEMS
Although we had solved the torsional vibration problem at Bede, lateral
vibration problems still needed to be addressed. They had set up a test
stand in an old gutted mobile home beside the Bede shop and the engine
mechanic who was an expert in two-cycle engines was doing a lot of
experimenting to improve the engine One day he and his assistant were
working right beside the engine, in front of everything. The lower jackshaft
was turning about 6000 RPM and he was adjusting the carburetors when he
stepped aside slightly to get a wrench. All of a sudden there was a big
explosion and a hole appeared in the wall of the test stand building. The
lower jackshaft had broken loose from its rubber couplings and was hurled
like a missile through the wall It travailed almost to the next building,
nearly going through the wing of a Beech 18 and then burying itself in the
Kansas gumbo mud. The energy involved was just unbelievable. If the mechanic
had been standing where he had been just seconds before, he would have been
killed. Once the system was put back together, we ran it with a strobe light
on the jackstand. Immediately we saw that the lower jackshaft was not
maintaining its concentricity with the engine crank on the forward end nor
the sprocket on the aft end. The rubber couplings were too soft. The system
was modified to use spherical bearings on each end to locate the lower
jackshaft so it would not start this lateral vibration due to the
centrifugal force acting on the shaft. This change solved this problem.
There was also a lateral vibration problem with the lower sprocket. After
hooking up the strobe light, we found the lower sprocket support was putting
an undulating wave of vibration into the rear bulkhead of the engine
compartment. This explained why all the rivets on the outside skin at that
bulkhead were always coming loose. One day this vibration was particularly
bad and we had Burt come by to take at look it. When he saw it, he just
looked sort of shocked, turned whiteand went off mumbling something about
not letting Les see this because we'll never get him to fly it again. I
think it was at that point that he sort of gave up. This, along with the
many other problems with the engine seemed to be the last straw as far as
Burt was concerned. It was about a week or two later that both Burt and I
left Bede Aircraft. Before my last day, I turned the design responsibility
for the drive system over to our landing gear man, Al Thompson. I gave him
instructions on how to redesign the lower sprocket mount. He did a superb
job and the new mount solved the lateral resonance problem in the lower
sprocket.
ROTORWAY
While at RotorWay, B.J. Schramm assigned me the job of designing and
building a water dynamometer test stand for the RW 133 helicopter engine.
The engine was mounted vertically, just like it was in the helicopter The
dynamometer had a fairly heavy, high inertia rotor and was connected to the
engine by a drive shaft with two universal joints. This test stand was used
not only to develop the engine but to later fully test and run each
customer's engine before delivery. The test stand was designed and built
with a good appearance so that it could be used at Oshkosh and other
airshows to demonstrate the engine, showing the actual torque and horsepower
output to potential customers.
One day, while testing the engine, all hell broke loose. The jackshaft with
the two universals had broken off the engine and was flailing around,
shaking the test stand quite violently. If I had been anywhere close, I
would not be among the living today. We found that the upper part of the
crankshaft had broken off. The break was all crystalline and it had the
characteristics of a torsional fatigue failure. I mentioned to B.J. that the
crank material sure looked strange. That was when I found out the crank was
cast iron. The RotorWay engine was based on the Volkswagon engine but was
highly modified to produce the power required for the helicopter. Although
the volks engine had a forged crank, the RotorWay engine required a special
crank with a long stroke. Since the engine was only in the development
phase, B.J. used a cast iron crank. Soon aher this failure, B.J. had a new
forged crank developed to replace the cast iron crank. One thing for sure, a
cast iron crankshaft is not the best way to go, when trying to deal with
torsional vibration.
CLUTCH SPRING SOLUTION
B.J. got in touch with the people who manufactured the dynamometer and found
out that hooking a 4-cylinder engine to one of these dynos can be a problem.
Any engine that produces 2 power strokes per revolution is bad news when it
comes to torsional vibration, we were told. They suggested installing clutch
springs, from an automobile clutch assembly, between the engine and the
water dynamometer to solve this torsional problem. (This is the same idea
Lou Ross uses on his gear boxes.) We also put a guard around the jackshaft
so that if another failure occurred it would be contained I saw the test
stand a few years ago and it appeared to be in good shape and still in use.
The spring idea seemed to have worked out.
DRIVE SYSTEM CONFIGURATIONS
Any time a propeller is connected to an engine in any way other than
directly to the crank it would be wise to realize that torsional vibration
can be a problem. Basically, there are three propeller drive system
configurations:
1. Propeller speed-reduction unit alone
2. Propeller speed-reduction unit with a shaft drive
3. Propeller shaft drive alone
TORSIONAL RESONANCE FREQUENCY
* Where k is the torsional spring constant, i.e. the torque (T) required to
produce an angle of twist (a) of 1 radian in the shaft to which the
propeller is attached.
* Where d is the diameter of the propeller shaft.
* Where G is the shearing modulus of elasticity of the shaft material
* Where L is the length of the shaft in inches.
* Where f is the frequency of the torsional vibration.
* Where I is the mass moment of intertia at the propeller
From the above formula it can be seen that:
The torsional frequency can be lowered by:
1. Decreasing the diameter of the shaft(s) (d)
2. Decreasing the shearing modulus of elasticity of the shaft material (G)
3. Increasing the mass moment of intertia of the prop (l)
4. Increasing the length of the shaft (L)
The torsional frequency can be raised by:
1. Increasing the diameter of the shaft(s) (d).
2. Increasing the shearing modulus of elasticity of the shaft material (G).
3. Decreasing the mass moment of interia of the prop (l).
4. Decreasing the length of the shaft (L).
Torsional resonance frequency is affected, more or less, by the propeller,
engine crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, and every part in between such
as a flywheel, gears, belts, and, to a lesser extent, the valve train and
accessories.
TYPES OF DRIVE SYSTEMS
1. A dampened system is one that uses a vibration damper to lower the
resonant loads to more acceptable levels, while leaving the torsional
resonance frequency within the operating RPM range of the engine. A dampened
system can be used with a propeller speed-reduction unit and/or a drive
shaft (i.e. Molt Taylor).
2. A hard drive is one that has a high torsional spring constant (k) and no
slop from the propeller through to the engine crankshaft (maximum rigidity).
The torsional problem is overcome strength and maximum stiffness. If a belt
is used it should be tensioned as per manufacturer's recommendations. (i.e.
Dave Blanton type bed drive system). A hard system becomes prohibitively
heavy when used with a shaft drive because of the high torsional loads
involved.
3. A soft system is one that has a low torsional spring constant (k) from
the propeller through to the engine crankshaft so as to move the torsional
resonance frequency below the operating RPM range and preferably below the
starting RPM of the engine. A soft system, using a propeller speed-reduction
unit alone (no driveshaft) with a sufficiently low torsional spring
constant, would be difficult to design because of space, weight, and
engineering limitations. A soft system with a drive shaft, if properly
designed and tested, has the potential of being the lightest and most
reliable of all the systems discussed (i.e. BD-5 belt/shaft drive system).
DESIGN CRITERIA RECOMMENDATIONS
1. The more cylinders the better!
2. Engine Crankshaft:
-1 st choice > forged
- 2nd choice> machined billet
- Not the best choice > cast iron
3. Joints in Rotating Parts:
- Use joints that transfer torque by faction where possible (i.e. shrink,
press &/or tapered fits)
- Splines are not the best choice in hard systems.
- If bolted joints (i e. flanged) are used, do not use the allowable bolt
shear strength to carry the engine torque through the joint. Instead, size
the bolts so that they can be tightened to produce sufficient bolt tension
so the engine torque can be transferred through the joint by the resulting
frictionbetween the flanges (Note: It would not be a ooodidea to have any
bolt threads in the vicinity on thejoint.)
4. System Slop:
- In a "hard system" (i.e. Dave Blanton hypesystem) avoid any slop in the
system Use a beltwith proper tension as per manufacturersrecommendations.
- In a 'soft system" (i.e. the BD-5 system) some slop can be tolerated. If a
toothed belt (i.e. HTD) is used, it can be run loose. Also, gears and
splines
are less critical (i.e. the Continental Tiara aircraft engine). If a silent
link type chain is used, chaint ension would be less cntical.
5. Torsional Spnng Constant of the System
- In a "hard system" (i.e. Dave Blanton type system) the main design
criteria should be to achieve a high torsional spring constant without
adding excessive weight. The torsional problem is overcome by brute
strength and maximum stiffness
- In a "soft system" (i e. the BD-5 system) the main design criteria should
be to achieve a low torsional spring constant while meeting the torque
requirements of the engine with a moderate safety factor. The torsional
spring constant should be low enough to move the torsional resonance
frequency below the starting RPM of the engine.
- The torsional spring constant can be lowered by decreasing the diameter of
the shaft(s), decreasing the shearing modulus of elasticity of the shaft
material, increasing the mass moment of inertia of the propeller and by
increasing the length of the shaft(s).
6. Freewheel Clutch:
- Use only a double cage, full phasing, sprag typec lutch. This type of
clutch works well with a "soft system".
- Roller and uncaged spring-loaded type freewheel clutches are not
recommended.
- It is not recommended to use a freewheel type clutch with a "hard system."
The higher energy level of resonance, in this type of system, will
eventually destroy the clutch, even though the engine RPM only passes
through the resonance when going up to or down from the normal operating
speed.
7. Cantilever Shafts:
- Mounting overhung belt sprockets or gears on cantilevered shafts should be
avoided, particularly on a "hard system".
- If a design requires an overhung sprocket, keep the offset and the belt
width to a minimum.
SUMMARY
BECOME FULLY INFORMED BEFORE TACKLING TORSIONALS! It would be advisable to
develop a good base of knowledge before becoming too involved in torsional
problems. Most intuitive solutions are the opposite of what should actually
be done when torsional resonance is involved. It is my hope that this
article will bring a degree of caution to experimenters and will encourage
them to seek out more knowledge on the subject before they jump in and waste
a lot of their time and money.
Demonstration of torsional resonance effects. A 2x4 representing the
inertia of a propeller is powered by a cordless drill motor through a 3/32
inch piano wire ("soft" system). One end of the rod is bent 90 degrees and
stapled securely to the wood. Energy is applied by short, rapid trigger
squeezes to simulate engine power pulses. Torsional effects are visual and
are heard from the slippage of the shaft in the chuck and torque reversal
clicking of the gears.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kolbdriver" <kolbdriver(at)mlsharp.com> |
| Subject: | Long Sitting Rotax 582 |
Folks,
It looks like I'm going to stay put for a while, I've landed in North
Central Oklahoma and need to get back to building. Big Lar and I started
about the same time, and I need to get busy so I can beat him in the air.
I have a 582 that has been sitting for approx 4 yrs. I've religiously kept
an equal mixture of seafoam, marvel mystery oil, opti 2, amsoil and penzoil
for 2cycle in the cyl and pulled the prop thru several times a week to keep
things lubed up. There seems to be good compression and no feeling of any
kind of binding.
Other than the obvious, replacing fuel pump and thoroughly cleaning the
carbs what should I be changing, cleaning etc. prior to start up.??
It does have an oil injection system.
Thanks,
Mike (MK III C, she's still with me, lost 2 wives and 3 jobs in the
process.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | VW reduction drive |
VW Kolbers:
I am installing a SPG-2 redrive on my 100hp 3 cyl chevy sprint turbo
engine. I was talking with the North American distributor today & he
commented that a guy in California put one on a VW using a simple aluminum
adapter plate. This gearbox is commonly used on 3 & 4 cylinder Suzuki
engines & Suburu engines up to 135 hp. They are imported out of Russia.
Below is contact info if you are interested. -Richard Swiderski
Regarding the SPG gearbox redrive the web site and contact is:
Vassili Tarakanov,
Aerospace Engineer
Canadian UL Instructor
Air Trikes Enterprises Manager
www.airtrikes.net
Phone/fax (514) 685-2856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings |
Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps and just dove.
Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.>>
Hi Jim,
on that much runway if you hadn`t landed safely you probably shouldn`t be
allowed to fly at all.
If it had been a small field it would be a different story. NEVER dive at a
field. All that happens is that you arrive at your landing spot going too
fast and you will float forever. If it is a small field that probably means
going through the far hedge or smacking into a wall.
Cheers
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Old thread- Trips |
In a message dated 7/22/2005 5:12:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
DCulver701(at)AOL.com writes:
> Hi Steve, read your post on locating Lake Yale on your map. Our place is
> on
> the N.W. corner of the lake, just above a big Baptist retreat, off of Hy.
> 452.
> Its called Sunlake Estates,
Hi Dave, I will let you know what I find. I probably will change the subject
line if there is something of interest to the list. Otherwise I will send it
to you offline.
Steve
FF#007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Practice Dead Stick Landings |
Hi Folks:
Rolled the old MKIII out late yesterday afternoon. Headed over to
Wetumpka Airport. After my initial landing on the paved strip, I took
off, climbed to 1,000 feet AGL, entered traffic for 36, the grass
strip. On down wind I pulled the power, let the engine cool a few
seconds, and hit the kill switch. I flew this one no flaps, normal
pattern to left base, and final. Soon as I was on the ground,
restarted, climbed back up to 1,000 AGL. Flew the pattern to
midfield, upwind, shut down, made a circling left 360 to 36, no flaps.
Restarted, climbed back up to 1,000 AGL, midfield up wind, shut down,
full flaps, touch down 36.
This probably took 10 minutes total time to shoot three dead stick
landings.
I might add that all radio calls were made as appropriate,
announcement that these were dead stick landings, and managed to keep
myself clear of other traffic in the area.
This was excellent training for me, a much needed refresher on how my
MKIII was going to fly dead stick. At 45 mph I was in a 500 FPM
decent. At 50 mph I was in a 1,000 FPM decent. That's good info to
know. That was in a clean configuration. I didn't check decent rates
with full flaps against airspeed, but next time I fly I will make it a
point to check that out also.
There is a lot of difference in performance between engine idling at
2,000 rpm, throttle to the stop, and dead stick. I can assure you,
you will not have time to sort out these kinds of things on your first
actual engine out if you have not practiced actual dead stick
landings.
Coming away from my short practice session last night, I feel much
more comfortable with myself and my airplane. I do not welcome an
actual engine out, but I am much better prepared to deal with the
situation now than prior to my little training period.
I was flying with 20 gal of fuel, which works out to about 120 lbs.
The old MKIII turns into a pretty good glider when the prop is
stopped. Even with full flaps and 50 mph, Miss P'fer did not want to
stop flying. She kept on floating in ground effect, on a very calm
evening, burning up a lot of airstrip. That is a lot of airstrip for
a Kolb, not compared to a "real" airplane.
I don't think there is any substitute for actually flying and training
in a Kolb airplane. King Airs and sail planes don't have much in
common with what I fly. Chopping the throttle, giving one's self a
practice engine out is not the same as shutting the engine down. You
only get one shot at an actual engine out. When my time comes again,
I want to be the best prepared a Kolb pilot can be. I want to be
ready.
And..........on top of all that, dead stick landings are a lot of fun.
Gives me a really good feeling to be able to put the old bird down in
the quiet mode.
Take care,
john h
MKIII, 912ULS (Still learning and a lot more to learn in order to
safely fly the Kolb)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kroll <muso2080(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick |
<<<<< Personally, I would rather take a chance of missing a 3,000 ft strip
and learn how to fly my MKIII engine out than do it your way.>>>>
John h/everybody
I flew yesterday in very gusty crosswind conditions and experienced another reason
for not practicing dead-stick with the power off. On the approach to land,
I had to be all over the throttle to keep the runway where I needed it (with
reference to the airplane). If I hadn't been able to change throttle settngs,
I would not have made it to the runway on several of the landings because
wind gusts and downdrafts upset my glidepath. I suppose you could choose not
to practice dead-stick on those kinds of days but you're not going to have that
choice when the real thing happens.
I guess my point is this: There is ALWAYS the unexpected to contend with....even
during practice. Why not practice with a live engine that will allow you to
recover in the event of the unexpected. In my opinion, the practice is just
as valuable with the power on because you know that if you do have to touch the
throttle, you've done something wrong and you can make an adjustment on your
next go round. You've still learned something and you didn't have to risk busting
your airplane (or your butt) to learn it.
Steve K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
I do understand the Challengers exported to the UK have bigger rudders and
may be less needy of rudder input>>
Hi ,
I don`t know about a larger rudder but we have an addition forward of the
fin, rather like the extension to the fin on the B17 which adds some yaw
stability.
I don`t understand this antipathy regards using the rudder, it is there to
balance the turn and counteract adverse yaw. Of course those unfortunates
who learned to fly power from day one have never learned about such things.
.
<< You're going to love the Kolb>>
Looking forward to it. Not long now????
Cheers
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings/proper lubrication /larcneny |
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com> |
Pat and all
Several things.
Pat, when you get your Kolb in the air and build an impression of
its qualities; Please give us a comparison between it and your
Challenger. Guys that I talk to love their Challengers. We Kolb guys
love ours ! I think you would do all of us a favor; given the derision
you and your Challenger have suffered on this list. Good natured though
it might have been :-) .
Oil--- Wal Mart semi synthetic-------when one owns a 2 cycle
engine--the accessory lubrication--that can also be found at Wally
World--is in the Drug department! Makes it a lot easier to have
unmentionable acts committed on our wallets and adjacent areas. :-)
Comes in a little jar. :-)
Herb
writes:
>
>
> Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps and
> just dove.
> Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.>>
>
> Hi Jim,
> on that much runway if you hadn`t landed safely you probably
> shouldn`t be
> allowed to fly at all.
>
> If it had been a small field it would be a different story. NEVER
> dive at a
> field. All that happens is that you arrive at your landing spot
> going too
> fast and you will float forever. If it is a small field that
> probably means
> going through the far hedge or smacking into a wall.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
I don't have flaps but I do have full span, wide chord ailerons.
That probably is the difference?
|
| Steve K
Steve K/Gang:
Isn't slipping more a matter of rudder and the side surface of the
fuselage?
Some Kolb models will slip better than others. Some models slip
sometimes and sometimes they can't be threatened into slipping.
My original Firestar would just barely hit 90 mph indicated in a 90
degree dive with engine at idle. In a hurry to get down, push the
nose over. Doesn't take much to slow down my Kolbs. Mine have full
time airbrakes or so it seems, they are so draggy.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl(at)verizon.net> |
MKIIIXtra
In one plans book it says to insert the legs all the way in as far as possible.
The next says to leave 1" of non tapper expossed beyond cage frame.
The plans show a 14" measurement from cage to where I can't seem to
figure out because none of these measurements have any thing to do with the other.
I've cut the end of the al. leg at an angle to fit the steel axle fitting and pounded
it in place only to realize the tapper tightens up before you know how
far it is inserted. I'd rather not ding them all up trying to get them off,
They are realy snug. Can I just shorten the distance of 1.5" to 1" to drill the
hole to att. the axle fitting to gear leg just to make sure I'm not too near
the end of the leg?
Are the brake disks listed in Aircraft Spuce (pg 215; 2004-2005) for homebuilts
the ones I want for Azusa wheels?
What is the attachment from steel axle fitting to calipper made of?
I've been given master cylinders and rebuilt dirt bike calipers one fixed shoe.
They need little space between disc and tire. The square part with 4 holes in the
steel axle fitting seems to bend easily. Is that of concern?
There you go. I've saved them all for one email.
Vic 3
MKIIIXtra 00040
Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
>
> All of these stories from you former Challenger drivers are nice ..... I
> just wish one of you would come help me get into this M-III I'm lookin'
at.
> Then I can be greatful that I bought a Kolb too!
I wish I was in your area to help you out.
The diamond floor plate must have been a builder modification. Kolb uses
only sheet aluminum for the floor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Vic, I guess it's too late to tell you you don't need to cut an angle
on the end.
(BTW are they delivering steel or aluminum legs for the Xtra?)
The actual amount inside the leg socket isn't important as long as they
are most of the way in. (size doesn't matter ;)
the amount sticking out should be the same. As long as one side looks
the
same as the other works on nearly every part of the airplane.
Wait until you have the legs in before you do any drilling for the axle
socket.
Stick on the whole wheel assembly, parallel them with the tail wheel as
center and THEN drill the holes for the axle socket.
Some look for a slight toe-in which is better than toe-out.
The leg socket on some have a lot of crap inside. The worst is welding
wire
protruding. The least is a little dimpling or ash bumps.
That all has to be sanded and cleaned out. Then grease up the leg
and go for it.
Leg first, axle socket second. Toe-in: rotate axle socket forward.
Toe-out: rotate aft. On my plane the left socket has slightly out of
round holes. If I loosen the bolts I can stick a pipe wrench on and
get whatever toe I want. -then just scrunch em back down and they
will stay put.
-BB
On 23, Jul 2005, at 2:44 PM, Vic Peters wrote:
>
> MKIIIXtra
> In one plans book it says to insert the legs all the way in as far as
> possible.
> The next says to leave 1" of non tapper expossed beyond cage frame.
> The plans show a 14" measurement from cage to where I can't seem to
> figure out because none of these measurements have any thing to do
> with the other.
> I've cut the end of the al. leg at an angle to fit the steel axle
> fitting and pounded it in place only to realize the tapper tightens up
> before you know how far it is inserted. I'd rather not ding them all
> up trying to get them off,
> They are realy snug. Can I just shorten the distance of 1.5" to 1" to
> drill the hole to att. the axle fitting to gear leg just to make sure
> I'm not too near the end of the leg?
>
> Are the brake disks listed in Aircraft Spuce (pg 215; 2004-2005) for
> homebuilts the ones I want for Azusa wheels?
>
> What is the attachment from steel axle fitting to calipper made of?
> I've been given master cylinders and rebuilt dirt bike calipers one
> fixed shoe.
> They need little space between disc and tire. The square part with 4
> holes in the steel axle fitting seems to bend easily. Is that of
> concern?
>
> There you go. I've saved them all for one email.
>
> Vic 3
> MKIIIXtra 00040
> Maine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Peters" <vicsvinyl(at)verizon.net> |
Thanks Bob,
I know I can't drill for the axle yet. No brakes yet. I was concered about drilling
too close to that angle I didn't need to cut. And what about being level?
Would you make any adjustments in leg length to keep the cage level, assuming
that floor is?
In 2002 they sent aluminum legs.
Vic 3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: M-IIIC Drivers in Iowa |
Thanks for the ofer Woody ..... I accept.!! hehe.
The diamond plate was a builder modification. It is back to a sheet aluminum
floor now.
>
> All of these stories from you former Challenger drivers are nice ..... I
> just wish one of you would come help me get into this M-III I'm lookin'
at.
> Then I can be greatful that I bought a Kolb too!
I wish I was in your area to help you out.
The diamond floor plate must have been a builder modification. Kolb uses
only sheet aluminum for the floor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings |
Have to agree, diving for a field is not the best option or habit to learn
- instead earn to loose altitude by using a slide slip, you can also "S
turn", even slow down. I usually make it a practice to be high on final
and have to side slip it in - this way I control both my speed and rate of
decent but land on my picked spot - your diving method while it does get
you down, it does not build your short field skills.
I normally will only do a side slip with 2 notches of flaperons, wing down
into the wind and counter with opposite rudder for direction
control. Practice at altitude then try a few on final.
jerb
>
>Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps and just dove.
>Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.>>
>
>Hi Jim,
>on that much runway if you hadn`t landed safely you probably shouldn`t be
>allowed to fly at all.
>
>If it had been a small field it would be a different story. NEVER dive at a
>field. All that happens is that you arrive at your landing spot going too
>fast and you will float forever. If it is a small field that probably means
>going through the far hedge or smacking into a wall.
>
>Cheers
>
>Pat
>
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Ducati Wiring Issue |
Kolbers:
Reassembled the 447 today to complete the decarboning drill... pain. heat. sweat.
Came across one red-flag item that I wanted to pass along to the List just in case
someone else is
facing the same situation.
As I was putting the wiring back on the side of the engine, I peeked inside the
plastic spiral wrap I use to
organize the wiring harness. Was highly surprised to see several inches of totally
bare wire... the insulation on one particular wire had
disintegrated... turned to soft pink goo. Unfortunately, it is the trigger circuit
wire for the Ducati ignition module.
Only this one segment of this one wire was affected. It is the solid red lead
coming out of the engine generator
section (where the trigger sensor is located) and leading to the Ducati module.
On the 447, It goes through a black rubber coupler plug halfway to the module.
Only the segment coming out of the engine case and leading to the coupler
plug was defective. From the coupler forward to the module was still bright red
and in perfect shape. None of the other wires anywhere in the Ducati system
or coming out of the generator were defective in the least. They were all in
as-new condition.... still shiny and brightly colored.
Since all of these wires were subjected to the same storage environment (closed
trailer)and are of the same age (4 years), I
believe it logical to assume that this is a case of defective materials. I attempt
to find time to tear into the generator tomorrow and see what the rest of
the trigger circuit wire inside the engine case looks like. Will report what
I find.
Meanwhile, I thought this issue to be potentially dangerous... they will certainly
not run with a shorted trigger circuit. If there is a bad
batch of trigger sensor wire out there installed on engines, it probably needs
to be documented.... at the very least, I would think it prudent to take a look
at the condition of these trigger leads on your 2-stroke Rotax, just in case
your wire came from the same batch as mine...
Public Spirited Beauford
FF #076
Brandon, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
It does seem that there is heavy weather being made about deadstick landings.
All this stuff about not cutting the engine for practise below 3000 ft.
I have had 2 `real` emergency landings, not when the engine stopped but when the
drive belt btween engine and prop suddenly shed all its teeth. This left the
engine screaming (until I cut it off) and the prop windmilling and producing
nothing. Both were about 1000ft and I arrived untidily but safely in a field with
no trouble. I had practised to some extent as I usually fly over a disused
airfield on my way back to base after a flight and I will sometimes close the
throttle some way away and see if I can make it to the field.
I remember asking my instructor during training which field he would pick if the
engine stopped NOW. He pointed straight down through the floor cockpit at the
ground and said `That one there`. Unless you have bags of height when it goes
quiet that about describes your choices.
One thing about the Challenger there is none of this `Kolb Quit` which seems to
crop up regularly on this list where the Kolb will apparently just stop flying.
The Challenger, if you get the stall in level flight just nods the nose down
a bit and mushes slowly downwards. You may arrive on the ground with a bit
of a bump but it cerainly will not fall out of the air.
Cheers
Pat (soon to be ex Challenger pilot, I hope)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob N." <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
Here's a handy airport wx site http://www.anyawos.com/
or phone 1-877-ANY-AWOS OR 1-877-269-2967
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings |
Pat/Jerb/All
I agree that diving for the runway may not always be the best option.
But for me, in that situation, in my judgement, it was. I knew I had
lots of room to slow down once I made the runway (with brakes and flaps
at that time) and I had a very smooth landing. Another time and place a
slip might be better.
Fortunately (??) it wa not my first dead stick landing and my previous
experiences helped me make the right decision for the event.
Thanks,
Jim
Mark III
----- Original Message -----
From: jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Date: Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Quiet landings
>
> Have to agree, diving for a field is not the best option or habit
> to learn
> - instead earn to loose altitude by using a slide slip, you can
> also "S
> turn", even slow down. I usually make it a practice to be high on
> final
> and have to side slip it in - this way I control both my speed and
> rate of
> decent but land on my picked spot - your diving method while it
> does get
> you down, it does not build your short field skills.
> I normally will only do a side slip with 2 notches of flaperons,
> wing down
> into the wind and counter with opposite rudder for direction
> control. Practice at altitude then try a few on final.
> jerb
>
>
> >
> >Dove for strip. Flaps would not do it so did away with flaps and
> just dove.
> >Landed on the last 1/3 of runway (2000' grass strip), no problem.>>
> >
> >Hi Jim,
> >on that much runway if you hadn`t landed safely you probably
> shouldn`t be
> >allowed to fly at all.
> >
> >If it had been a small field it would be a different story. NEVER
> dive at a
> >field. All that happens is that you arrive at your landing spot
> going too
> >fast and you will float forever. If it is a small field that
> probably means
> >going through the far hedge or smacking into a wall.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Pat
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/24/2005 5:53:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ulpilot(at)cavtel.net writes:
When I was installing my axles to my aluminum gear legs, I leveled the plane
in the flying attitude and used a straight 8' square tube clamped to both
axles to keep them square with the direction of flight and the plane. I also
installed my gear legs with the 1 " measurement above the taper even with
the bottom of the gear tube on the cage. Ray Brown said you could come up or
down a half inch from the plans measurement if you screwed up and needed to
redrill a hole, but both legs must be the same length. I now have 24 hours
and several landing on the gear. The plane tracks straight on take off and
landing. I can not three point it on landing so I am doing wheel landing
only and it is working out very good.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447 ?
Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an approximate
total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you use?
I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get feedback>
I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia, best
regards. Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
"corrected. TOO MUCH speed rattles the pilot,"
Rattles the pilot? As in flutter?
Do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
Greetings,
Does anyone happen to know of a SS cage that's for sale at a reasonable
price? Some wreck damage would be OK, since I'd be modifying it anyway.
Thanks,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MK III X vs FS KXP |
Dave
I am really enjoying the MK III X. It is hard to compare the FS with the MK
III. I have the MK III trimmed the way I like to fly and have loads of fun
in it.
At first my ailerons were stiff/heavy, but with the fix I learned about on
the list they became lighter and more Kolb like, light and balanced. The MK
III has a great deal more room than the FS and the ROC is close to the FS.
I have seen as high as 1000 FPM (early morning) but usually around 800 fpm
or less and the higher you go the less ROC . Bear in mind, I am in
Virginia at sea level and it is hot and humid. The plane will cruise very
nicely at 5400 rpm with 72-75 mph IAS and WOT around 92 mph IAS.
I am using the Rotax 582 Blue head with a 66" 3 bladed Warp drive prop. I
have an EIS with the altimeter/VSI option/OAT/ fuel level and a Winter ASI
mounted in the POD. I mounted a Microair radio and a PM 501 intercom with
all my on/off switches in the center console. I used the Kuntzleman hot box
to make the wiring easier and his wing tip strobes. I can only guess at the
total cost, but I would say $22/23K.
I put 2 ten gallon tanks for a total of 20 usable gallons of fuel. I
haven't been on a cross country to get an accurate fuel flow, but around my
flight test area I am burning an average of 4.7 GPH. This gives me a good 3
hours with an one hour reserve of time in the air.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: <DCulver701(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear legs
>
>> Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447
?
> Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an
approximate
> total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you
use?
> I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get feedback>
> I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia,
best
> regards. Dave Culver
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MK III X vs FS KXP |
Jim
I'm wondering about your fuel tanks. I was just looking into an upgrade in
that area. I was at a boat supply store and can get am 18 gallon for $134.00
to replace the 3 five gallon tanks I have now. Also I am wondering if you
would send me a pic of you panel. I am also considering the same
radio/intercom setup you mentioned. How (where) did you mount yours? I'd
appreciate your help.
Thanks
Chuck S
Dave
I am really enjoying the MK III X. It is hard to compare the FS with the MK
III. I have the MK III trimmed the way I like to fly and have loads of fun
in it.
At first my ailerons were stiff/heavy, but with the fix I learned about on
the list they became lighter and more Kolb like, light and balanced. The MK
III has a great deal more room than the FS and the ROC is close to the FS.
I have seen as high as 1000 FPM (early morning) but usually around 800 fpm
or less and the higher you go the less ROC . Bear in mind, I am in
Virginia at sea level and it is hot and humid. The plane will cruise very
nicely at 5400 rpm with 72-75 mph IAS and WOT around 92 mph IAS.
I am using the Rotax 582 Blue head with a 66" 3 bladed Warp drive prop. I
have an EIS with the altimeter/VSI option/OAT/ fuel level and a Winter ASI
mounted in the POD. I mounted a Microair radio and a PM 501 intercom with
all my on/off switches in the center console. I used the Kuntzleman hot box
to make the wiring easier and his wing tip strobes. I can only guess at the
total cost, but I would say $22/23K.
I put 2 ten gallon tanks for a total of 20 usable gallons of fuel. I
haven't been on a cross country to get an accurate fuel flow, but around my
flight test area I am burning an average of 4.7 GPH. This gives me a good 3
hours with an one hour reserve of time in the air.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: <DCulver701(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gear legs
>
>> Hi Jim, how do you like your new MK111 -X compared to your FS KXP 447
?
> Do you think you can tell me what you put in your plane, with an
approximate
> total cost? What kind of range are you getting & which engine did you
use?
> I'm looking at a lot of different planes, and just trying to get
feedback>
> I'd rather hear that info from the people that buy em, and fly em. Tia,
best
> regards. Dave Culver
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Charter" <lndc(at)fnbcnet.com> |
| Subject: | transporting Firefly |
The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble. Do the wings
have to come off to transport?
Dan Charter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com> |
| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
I don't know as I'd say "feeble," but certainly not bullet proof, either.
There've been several threads in the last couple of months about supporting
the wings in the trailer while transporting. Look especially for the ones
by Dave Pelletier and his in-trailer support system for his Mk III. It'd
work just as well for a single seater. Larry Cottrell's idea of an inner
tube for the same purpose is a good'un, too. Many others have come up with
unique and useful ideas. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Charter" <lndc(at)fnbcnet.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: transporting Firefly
>
> The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble. Do the
> wings have to come off to transport?
> Dan Charter
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene D. Ledbetter" <gdledbetter(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
Dan,
I've been transporting my firefly to Florida the last 4 winters and
installed brackets in my trailer that I hang the wings on. My web
site has photos.
homepage.mac.com/gene1930
This system has worked very well for me.
Gene
On Jul 25, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Dan Charter wrote:
>
> The wing attachment to the tail on a Firefly looks pretty feeble.
> Do the wings have to come off to transport?
> Dan Charter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger" <rphanks(at)grantspass.com> |
Hello All:
I would like to report on a great day of flying. I left Grants Pass, OR just as
the sun broke over the hills and headed east for Plum Valley international,
Larry Cottrell's mountain pasture/airstrip 80 miles away. An hour and 20 mins
later I heard Larry's voice in my headset as I looked for the field. A full
circle of the field and a few questions over the radio helped clear up where the
runway was. I cleared the tall pines on the south end, touched down under the
power lines and rolled to a stop just in front of Larry's firestar (almost
like I knew what I was doing). Brakes might be a good addition to the KXP this
winter. Larry and I discussed where we should go as I topped off the tanks.
Low flying isn't something I get to do a lot of in my local area, so we decided
to head North and intercept the Sprague River, follow it to the town of Bly
and then circle back past Gerber Reservoir and Langell Valley on the way back
to Plum Valley.
What followed were two-plus hours of spectacular scenery and carefree tree-top
flying. We spotted coyotes, bald eagles, canada geese, american ibis, sandhill
cranes, redtail hawks, pelicans, pronghorn antelope, and thousands of cattle.
The Sprague River follows a very twisting path through mostly pasture and farm
lands. The KXP can follow every contour if you slow down to about 50mph.
Above that the ailerons start to feel heavier and your turn radius opens up some.
Every now and then we had to conduct strafing manuvers on a tractor or two.
When we got to Bly, we left the river and headed across the hills toward
Gerber reservoir. We surprised the potbellied guy up in the fire lookout as we
crossed one ridge line. He wasn't expecting company, I guess. He had his shirt
off and was waving like crazy (it wasn't pretty). With twenty miles left
to go, my bladder exceeded its comfort limit. We put down in an alfalfa field
and relieved the pressure. The son of the owner soon showed up on a dirt bike
to check us out. While he gave Larry's firestar a thorough inspection, his
dog layed down in the shade underneath the firestar and bent Larry's com antenna
to the side. We thanked the gentleman for the use of his field (he insisted
the pleasure was all his) and headed on. Larry landed first to check out the
winds and I followed. This time I didn't have to shut off the ignition to
stop at the right spot. Practice makes perfect.
I topped off the tanks again and headed back over the Cascade mountains for home.
I had a bit of a headwind at 7500', but less than I was expecting. The trip
back took an hour and a half. I landed number three behind a K-max helicopter
and a 172. The K-max landed not a hundred yards from my pickup and trailer,
shut down his engines, and started pumping fuel. I had the KXP folded and
in the trailer in record time. The thought of him lifting off that close was
a bit motivating.
Total flight time for the trip was 5.3 hours.
GPS recorded 328 miles flown
Fuel burn: 15 gals
With appologies to Rev. Pike, I can't think of a better way to spend a Sunday morning.
Flying with a friend.
Roger in Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quiet landings |
"About "diving for the field" -- that's a real non-no. You'll make the
field, but be landing at a HUGE rate of speed & likely run off the end,
blow a tire, whatever."
*************************************
This is true for conventional clean aircraft, but not for most ultralights. Kolbs
and most other ultralights are aerodynamically dirty. Diving off altitude
when you are close in and have the field made is a valid method of burning off
excess energy (altitude) in a high drag aircraft. Parasite drag goes up with
the square of the airspeed. The parasite drag at 80 mph is 4 times that at
40 mph. Drag sucks up energy, and you need to dissipate energy when you are too
high. Aim short of your planned touchdown point and let the speed build up.
Sure, you'll float after roundout, but you'll still touchdown shorter than
if you fly the too high final at the most efficient (L/D max) low drag airspeed.
Flaps really help here, as long as you don't overspeed them. High on final - max
flaps, aim short of your planned touchdown point, and let the airspeed build.
The excess will dissipate in a hurry after you round out with full flaps extended.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
HI,
WAS OVER TO OSHKOSH MONDAY, WATCHED KOLB BEING DEMOSTRATED AT ULTRALIGHT
RUNWAY. WAS SHOOTING TAKE OFF AND LANDINGS, SURE LOOKED IMPRESSIVE, LANDINGS
AND TAKE OFF'S WERE SHORT, WITH STEEP CLIMBS. IT WAS A FIRESTAR OR A FIREFLY
NOT QUITE SURE WHICH. IT PERFORMED BETTER THAN ANY OTHER I SAW FLY. I ALSO
VISTED THE KOLB DISPLAY WHICH WAS IN THE MAIN AIRCRAFT DISPLAY, WEST OF
AEROSHELL SQUARE.
I HAD DECIDED TO PURCHASE A KOLB PRIOR TO GOING TO OSHKOSH AND I HAVE NOW
DECIDED ON THE FIRESTAR WITH A 503 IN IT. JIM SWAN BACK IN MICHIGAN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MK III X vs FS KXP |
In a message dated 7/25/2005 5:27:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ulpilot(at)cavtel.net writes:
Dave
I am really enjoying the MK III X. It is hard to compare the FS with the MK
III. I have the MK III trimmed the way I like to fly and have loads of fun
in it.
At first my ailerons were stiff/heavy, but with the fix I learned about on
the list they became lighter and more Kolb like, light and balanced. The MK
III has a great deal more room than the FS and the ROC is close to the FS.
I have seen as high as 1000 FPM (early morning) but usually around 800 fpm
or less and the higher you go the less ROC . Bear in mind, I am in
Virginia at sea level and it is hot and humid. The plane will cruise very
nicely at 5400 rpm with 72-75 mph IAS and WOT around 92 mph IAS.
I am using the Rotax 582 Blue head with a 66" 3 bladed Warp drive prop. I
have an EIS with the altimeter/VSI option/OAT/ fuel level and a Winter ASI
mounted in the POD. I mounted a Microair radio and a PM 501 intercom with
all my on/off switches in the center console. I used the Kuntzleman hot box
to make the wiring easier and his wing tip strobes. I can only guess at the
total cost, but I would say $22/23K.
I put 2 ten gallon tanks for a total of 20 usable gallons of fuel. I
haven't been on a cross country to get an accurate fuel flow, but around my
flight test area I am burning an average of 4.7 GPH. This gives me a good 3
hours with an one hour reserve of time in the air.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Jim Ballenger
Selling a FS KXP 447
Flying a MK III X
Virginia Beach, VA
Jim, Thanks for all the useful info, it sure sounds like a nice plane!
Best of luck, & safe flying. Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
Sounds like someone figured out that they were going to have to modify
the mount for their rotary engine and didn't have the heart to cut an
otherwise OK cage... ;-)
Jeremy Casey
OK Rusty, what's up with the cage search? Is there activity in the
Rusty
Skunkworks? -Richard Swiderski
Greetings,
Does anyone happen to know of a SS cage that's for sale at a reasonable
price? Some wreck damage would be OK, since I'd be modifying it anyway.
Thanks,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
I have just purchased a Firestar with a 503 in it. It was delivered this weekend
and I taxied it around for a bit. My question is what is the best way to transition
from a C-152 to the Firestar. Do I actually need lessons, or just need
to pay attention to certain things to be ok. Any suggestions would be helpful
including links on transitioning from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
John Murr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
Get some taildragger instruction time now!!!
I have just purchased a Firestar with a 503 in it. It was delivered this weekend
and I taxied it around for a bit. My question is what is the best way to transition
from a C-152 to the Firestar. Do I actually need lessons, or just need
to pay attention to certain things to be ok. Any suggestions would be helpful
including links on transitioning from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
John Murr
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
Sorry Jeremy, but thank you for playing :-)
The single rotor test engine (old housings, no internal parts), and redrive,
has already been mounted with no mods at all to the SS frame. I now have all
the parts I need to assemble a real, running engine, and could have it on
the frame and running in the next month or so. I need to replace the
landing gear (bent when I got the plane), some cracked welds, and some other
things on the frame before I permanently mount the engine. Unfortunately,
hurricane Dennis left me with a bunch of junk in my garage until I get the
screen room rebuilt again, so I can put it all back outside where it
belongs.
The cage question is with regard to the twin engine SS idea that I talked to
Dennis about years ago. I've always wanted a well behaved twin, with good
single engine performance, and I'd like to put two single rotor engines in
an AirCam. Unfortunately, those seem to be made of gold if you go by the
price, so I will probably have to resort to two 503 engines on a SS. They
could either be push pull (stock location, and one on the front, flown from
the rear seat), or just below the wing on each side of the rear of the cage,
flown from the front seat. The twin pusher plan is clearly the easiest to
do. I haven't invested a ton of time thinking about the details of this,
but figured if I came across a cage that seemed worthy of the project, it
might be worth putting aside for the future.
I could also modify the current cage when I get done with the single rotor
project. I'm going to have to hobble the single rotor a bit, to keep from
overpowering the SS airframe, so it's really not the best fit for full out
testing. Did I mention I was using a turbo as a muffler now on the single
rotor :-) It could be as much as 180 HP if I allowed it to be. Don't worry
though, I won't allow anywhere near that on the SS.
Cheers,
Rusty (not enough 503's on the first SS)
Sounds like someone figured out that they were going to have to modify the
mount for their rotary engine and didn't have the heart to cut an otherwise
OK cage... ;-)
Jeremy Casey
OK Rusty, what's up with the cage search? Is there activity in the Rusty
Skunkworks? -Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
Hi John,
Congrats on the FS. You're in for a real treat compared to the C-152.
There are really two things I can think of that will require transition
training.
One is the tailwheel, as was mentioned already. Kolb's are very forgiving
tailwheel planes, so it's not going to be hard, but it does require an
understanding of how tailwheels behave. You'll also have to develop some
new habits. A few hours in any light taildragger (Cub, C-140, etc) will
take care of this.
The second part is the difference between typical GA planes, and ultralight
type planes. There is a lot more drag, and less inertia in the ultralight
types, and it will be a bit un-nerving if you don't know what to expect.
For example, when you land the Cessna, if you flare a bit too early, you
just let the nose come back down, and try again. You might even get away
with this 3 times on a slightly fast approach. UL types will lose all their
extra airspeed quickly, so you need to be wary of that, because you won't
get all the extra chances without adding power back. The same thing happens
in flight, and you'll be surprised how much airspeed you lose on a steep
turn in an UL type plane. Again, it's not dangerous unless you're not
expecting it.
Bottom line is that it would be very wise to get some time in any sort of
two place UL type plane, preferably with a tailwheel. If you're careful,
you might be able to fly the FS just fine now, but why take that risk just
to avoid a few hours of training. FWIW, I drove from FL to PA to get about
5 hours with Dan, the Kolb instructor before I flew the SS, and I consider
that to have been time and money very well spent.
Good luck,
Rusty
My question is what is the best way to transition from a C-152 to the
Firestar. Do I actually need lessons, or just need to pay attention to
certain things to be ok. Any suggestions would be helpful including links on
transitioning from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
John Murr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
AMEN -- FWIW, I agree. Worth it to stay out of trouble./
Russ Kinne
On Jul 26, 2005, at 5:00 PM, ray anderson wrote:
>
> Get some taildragger instruction time now!!!
>
> "jdmurr(at)juno.com" wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted
> by: "jdmurr(at)juno.com"
>
>
> I have just purchased a Firestar with a 503 in it. It was delivered
> this weekend and I taxied it around for a bit. My question is what is
> the best way to transition from a C-152 to the Firestar. Do I actually
> need lessons, or just need to pay attention to certain things to be
> ok. Any suggestions would be helpful including links on transitioning
> from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
>
>
> John Murr
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us> |
All I can say is this...
I'm standing in front of my computer at attention, with my best Boy
Scout salute pointed at Pensacola...you got my respect, brother. Glad
to hear someone remembers that EAA started as "EXPERIMENTAL"...good
luck.
Jeremy Casey
P.S. Ever seen this...?
http://www.alltrade.ws/page3.html
Always thought it would be an interesting bird...
-----Original Message-----
From: Rusty [mailto:13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net]
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Slingshot cage?
Sorry Jeremy, but thank you for playing :-)
The single rotor test engine (old housings, no internal parts), and
redrive,
has already been mounted with no mods at all to the SS frame. I now have
all
the parts I need to assemble a real, running engine, and could have it
on
the frame and running in the next month or so. I need to replace the
landing gear (bent when I got the plane), some cracked welds, and some
other
things on the frame before I permanently mount the engine.
Unfortunately,
hurricane Dennis left me with a bunch of junk in my garage until I get
the
screen room rebuilt again, so I can put it all back outside where it
belongs.
The cage question is with regard to the twin engine SS idea that I
talked to
Dennis about years ago. I've always wanted a well behaved twin, with
good
single engine performance, and I'd like to put two single rotor engines
in
an AirCam. Unfortunately, those seem to be made of gold if you go by
the
price, so I will probably have to resort to two 503 engines on a SS.
They
could either be push pull (stock location, and one on the front, flown
from
the rear seat), or just below the wing on each side of the rear of the
cage,
flown from the front seat. The twin pusher plan is clearly the easiest
to
do. I haven't invested a ton of time thinking about the details of
this,
but figured if I came across a cage that seemed worthy of the project,
it
might be worth putting aside for the future.
I could also modify the current cage when I get done with the single
rotor
project. I'm going to have to hobble the single rotor a bit, to keep
from
overpowering the SS airframe, so it's really not the best fit for full
out
testing. Did I mention I was using a turbo as a muffler now on the
single
rotor :-) It could be as much as 180 HP if I allowed it to be. Don't
worry
though, I won't allow anywhere near that on the SS.
Cheers,
Rusty (not enough 503's on the first SS)
Sounds like someone figured out that they were going to have to modify
the
mount for their rotary engine and didn't have the heart to cut an
otherwise
OK cage... ;-)
Jeremy Casey
OK Rusty, what's up with the cage search? Is there activity in the
Rusty
Skunkworks? -Richard Swiderski
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
>
> > I have just purchased a Firestar with a 503 in it. It was delivered
> > this weekend and I taxied it around for a bit. My question is what is
> > the best way to transition from a C-152 to the Firestar. Do I actually
> > need lessons, or just need to pay attention to certain things to be
> > ok. Any suggestions would be helpful including links on transitioning
> > from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
> >
> >
> > John Murr
Oh ...good grief - just push it out, crank it up and yank that stick back
you'll be fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Firestar II and trailer for sale, Ford City PA |
Kolbers,
The widow of Jess Saxion has asked me to assist her in selling Jesses unused Brian
Melbourn built Firestar II.
Jess passed away from leukemia resently and was never able to fly his factory built
Kolb.
It has was bought brand new with the trailer from Kolb just a few years ago and
has rarely been taken out of the trailer as Jess got sick before he could start
flying it.
It has a BRS, 503 DCDI, IVO, blue and white paint, and an EIS as I recall.
It has been a good year since I have seen it out of the trailer so I can't confirm
much more than this till I have a chance to meet with her and check it over.
The leading edge fabric of the wings did receive a little damage from scraping
the trailer when loading the bird and Jess had started the fabric repair before
being disabled but I have not yet inspected his work. The damage was not a
big deal in my opinion so he may well have completed the work, I will try to inspect
it soon and relay the info to anyone interested.
Anyone interested in this bird can E-mail me at rowedl(at)highstream.net or call me
at 724-845-1431.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Quiet landings |
"About "diving for the field" -- that's a real non-no. You'll make the
field, but be landing at a HUGE rate of speed & likely run off the end,
blow a tire, whatever."
*************************************
This is true for conventional clean aircraft, but not for most ultralights. Kolbs
and most other ultralights are aerodynamically dirty. Diving off altitude
when you are close in and have the field made is a valid method of burning off
excess energy (altitude) in a high drag aircraft. Parasite drag goes up with
the square of the airspeed. The parasite drag at 80 mph is 4 times that at
40 mph. Drag sucks up energy, and you need to dissipate energy when you are too
high. Aim short of your planned touchdown point and let the speed build up.
Sure, you'll float after roundout, but you'll still touchdown shorter than
if you fly the too high final at the most efficient (L/D max) low drag airspeed.
Flaps really help here, as long as you don't overspeed them. High on final - max
flaps, aim short of your planned touchdown point, and let the airspeed build.
The excess will dissipate in a hurry after you round out with full flaps extended.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bryan green <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
Hi John, Get some dual in a pusher type ultralight trainer if at all
possible or you will probably bend your Kolb. The ultralights bleed off
airspeed fast and have a much steeper angle of descent then a 150. As
for the conventional gear just do a lot of ground handling until you get
comfortable with high speed taxi. With the 152 you can land a little
side ways it will chirp some and straighten out, but with the tail wheel
you need to be pointed in the direction you want to go when the wheels
hit the runway. JMHO
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar 447 BRS
jdmurr(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>I have just purchased a Firestar with a 503 in it. It was delivered this weekend
and I taxied it around for a bit. My question is what is the best way to transition
from a C-152 to the Firestar. Do I actually need lessons, or just need
to pay attention to certain things to be ok. Any suggestions would be helpful
including links on transitioning from GA to ultralights. Thanks.
>
>
>John Murr
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Good day everyone! |
0.06 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com
Hello folks.
I am a new member here.This is my first post.
I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT LIST!
I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for an
ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering if
any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Need dual time in Ultralight |
Thank you to all of you with the good advice. Smoketown has a Champ. I'm going
to see if I can get some time in it.
Does any one know anyone near Lancaster, PA that I can get dual time with in an
Ultralight? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MkIII-- Transport-- Northern MN to East PA |
| From: | "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com> |
Earlier this summer I transported (and bought) Neitzel's MKIII from
Rhinelander, WI to Allentown, PA-- 1287mi.
Unloaded with no dents scratches or hanger rash.
Basically we took 28' U-Haul and put joists across the truck in 3 places,
slung the wings with 24" carpet in three places, ran a 2x6 on top of joists
on each side, put 1" soft foam between wings and carpet, put 4" foam between
wing/carpet and the sides of the truck. We marked the carpet with marker so
that we could tell if the carpet was stretching or tearing under the load
blocks that we used to anchor the carpet to the stringers. After six hours
of travel I was concerned that the carpet was going to rip so I ran 1" nylon
strapping on the outside of the carpet for insurance. This wasn't needed
but it made me feel better!! At the wing root we made alum. Bracket that we
nailed into a wooden chock for the wheels. This kept the wings from moving
front or back.
The fuselage went in nose first into a T type chock that held the mains on
both f/b sides. #12 wire was then wrapped over the tires several times to
insure that they did not slip. The T then ran to a boom support that kept
the tail wheel 2" off the trailer floor.
I have not posted pics to Matronic before and am leaving for vac. shortly.
If you want I will just email you the pics.
Send request to tohara(at)alphagraphics.com
Status of the Bird: Sitting wingless in front of a huge runway snowblower
waiting for hangers to be completed. Dick Neitzel (builder) is coming out
after he gets finished as volunteer at OSH and we plan to fly 8/13. Can't
wait to get in the air!! We may go down to Homer's so that Dick can see all
of his toys.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Curtin" <jcurtin(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
Hello BB, Welcome to the list. Where in MS do you live? I am building a
Firestar in Diamondhead. This will be my second one. I and everyone else on
this list will be glad to help in any way. Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benny Bee" <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com>
contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>
> Hello folks.
> I am a new member here.This is my first post.
> I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT LIST!
>
>
> I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for an
> ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering if
> any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
>
> BB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Need dual time in Ultralight |
I'm still trying to find some dual time in a M-III in the Des Moines or
central Iowa area. I hope to buy the M-III in a few days and would like to
fly with someone who has experiance in one. If any one can help I would
appreciate it.
Chuck S
Thank you to all of you with the good advice. Smoketown has a Champ. I'm
going to see if I can get some time in it.
Does any one know anyone near Lancaster, PA that I can get dual time with in
an Ultralight? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kroll <muso2080(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transitioning from C-152 to Firestar |
<<<<>>>>
Hi John,
I had no trouble transitioning from GA to my Mk2 but I did get a little time in
a UL trainer.....in my case, a two seat Quicksilver. The biggest difference
to me was how fast the UL loses energy and a much lighter feel with the controls.
It's not difficult...just different.
Get a couple of hours in a UL trainer and you should be good to go. If you could
find somebody with a Mk3 to train in...so much the better to give you the taildragger
feel but I don't think you'll have much trouble with that. The Kolbs
are the easiest taildragggers I've flown by far.
Prior to the first flight around the patch, I did a bunch of crow-hops to get
the feel of it. This let me feel the airplane's landing characteristics without
having to leave the proximity of the runway. Be ready to ease off on the trottle
though as once the Kolbs lift off, they'll climb in a hurry if you let
them. Back off on the throttle just enough to keep flying without climbing.
This way you can fly maybe half the length of the runway before settling back
on. Keep it low and pay attention to airspeed. I found the crow hops to be a
real confidence builder.
When you're ready for the first time around the patch, I would suggest 55mph
on approach right down to the flare, hold it level and let the airplane settle
to a wheel landing and then just keep it straight till the tail comes down(a
very short time). I would also suggest a grass field for your first practice
sessions. They are more forgiving then pavement and generally wider too. I've
got 3600 feet by 200 feet wide and it was ideal.
The only other thing to watch that I can think of is this: when you give the airplane
throttle for takeoff, the high thrust position of the pusher config wants
to push the nose down. You can either gradually open the throttle to lessen
this tendency or, you can hold a little up elevator to counteract this tendency
till the airplane gets a little speed. The same thing is true in reverse.....
when you back off the throttle in flight, the nose wants to come up so
be ready to apply some forward stick to keep the nose level and your airspeed
where you want it.
Have fun. You're going to love your new toy:-)
Steve
Mk2 503
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
Kolbers,Jerry!
I thank y'all for warm welcome.I am just getting in to
this wonderful hobby and currently taking a flight
lessons from BFI.
I live in jackson,ms.I searched over the net for a
ultrastar but every one i found was either too far or
too much,So i am thinking seriously about building it
from plans.Don't know yet how much PIA involved but i
was told to count on around 400 hours. Since i happen
to have some free time i think it will be wise for me
to build ,even though it's gonna take a while.I am a
welder so fabricating part don't really scares me.
Did anybody on the list built any kolbs from
scratch,using just a plans??
Thanks,
BB
--- Jerry Curtin wrote:
>
>
> Hello BB, Welcome to the list. Where in MS do you
> live? I am building a
> Firestar in Diamondhead. This will be my second one.
> I and everyone else on
> this list will be glad to help in any way. Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Benny Bee" <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>
>
>
> >
> > Hello folks.
> > I am a new member here.This is my first post.
> > I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT
> LIST!
> >
> >
> > I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for
> an
> > ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering
> if
> > any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
> >
> > BB
> >
> >
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bryan green <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
Hi Benny, I don't think you can get detailed enough plans to build an
Ultrastar. You would come out much cheaper and be flying a lot sooner to
just buy a used Ultrastar from some one. There are several on
Barnstormers.com at a very reasonable price just search for Kolb.
Building is very seldom the cheapest way to get a plane.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
Firestar 447 BRS
Benny Bee wrote:
>
>
>Kolbers,Jerry!
>I thank y'all for warm welcome.I am just getting in to
>this wonderful hobby and currently taking a flight
>lessons from BFI.
>I live in jackson,ms.I searched over the net for a
>ultrastar but every one i found was either too far or
>too much,So i am thinking seriously about building it
>from plans.Don't know yet how much PIA involved but i
>was told to count on around 400 hours. Since i happen
>to have some free time i think it will be wise for me
>to build ,even though it's gonna take a while.I am a
>welder so fabricating part don't really scares me.
>Did anybody on the list built any kolbs from
>scratch,using just a plans??
>
>Thanks,
>BB
>--- Jerry Curtin wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hello BB, Welcome to the list. Where in MS do you
>>live? I am building a
>>Firestar in Diamondhead. This will be my second one.
>>I and everyone else on
>>this list will be glad to help in any way. Jerry
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Benny Bee" <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com>
>>To: >
>>
>>
>contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com>
>
>
>>Subject: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello folks.
>>>I am a new member here.This is my first post.
>>>I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT
>>>
>>>
>>LIST!
>>
>>
>>>I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for
>>>
>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering
>>>
>>>
>>if
>>
>>
>>>any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
>>>
>>>BB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>browse
>>Subscriptions page,
>>FAQ,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
hi, bryan, the us plans i have are VERY detailed,and very complete, the only
thing i see as a problem would be the main wing spar rib stampings but i bet
you can buy em from kolb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>
> Hi Benny, I don't think you can get detailed enough plans to build an
> Ultrastar. You would come out much cheaper and be flying a lot sooner to
> just buy a used Ultrastar from some one. There are several on
> Barnstormers.com at a very reasonable price just search for Kolb.
> Building is very seldom the cheapest way to get a plane.
> Bryan Green Elgin SC
> Firestar 447 BRS
>
> Benny Bee wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Kolbers,Jerry!
>>I thank y'all for warm welcome.I am just getting in to
>>this wonderful hobby and currently taking a flight
>>lessons from BFI.
>>I live in jackson,ms.I searched over the net for a
>>ultrastar but every one i found was either too far or
>>too much,So i am thinking seriously about building it
>>from plans.Don't know yet how much PIA involved but i
>>was told to count on around 400 hours. Since i happen
>>to have some free time i think it will be wise for me
>>to build ,even though it's gonna take a while.I am a
>>welder so fabricating part don't really scares me.
>>Did anybody on the list built any kolbs from
>>scratch,using just a plans??
>>
>>Thanks,
>>BB
>>--- Jerry Curtin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello BB, Welcome to the list. Where in MS do you
>>>live? I am building a
>>>Firestar in Diamondhead. This will be my second one.
>>>I and everyone else on
>>>this list will be glad to help in any way. Jerry
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Benny Bee" <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com>
>>>To: >>
>>>
>>>
>>contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com>
>>
>>
>>>Subject: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello folks.
>>>>I am a new member here.This is my first post.
>>>>I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>LIST!
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>an
>>>
>>>
>>>>ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering
>>>>
>>>>
>>>if
>>>
>>>
>>>>any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
>>>>
>>>>BB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>browse
>>>Subscriptions page,
>>>FAQ,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Another kolb on the go. |
Go for it.
I built an original Kolb Flyer from scratch and helped build an
Ultrastar from scratch. Both were good learning experiences. You can get
great deals on crashed or damaged Kolbs that if you have the skills you can
get them back in the air real cheap. I documented my build time for my
Twinstar and it was about 150 hrs using the kit. Mk111 is about the same
maybe a bit more.
I met Will Tatham today and bought a Mk111 kit #1 from him. Added to the
airfame I salvaged from Dallas Shepard I have the makings for another Kolb.
This one is being constructed as an investment to be sold when completed.
Hopefully it will be done by next spring. Main goal is to beat Big Lar into
the air again.( for the 3rd or 4th time ;) but who's counting.)
. Since i happen
> to have some free time i think it will be wise for me
> to build ,even though it's gonna take a while.I am a
> welder so fabricating part don't really scares me.
> Did anybody on the list built any kolbs from
> scratch,using just a plans??
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
>> You're much too far to have an armwrestling contest.
> My reason for using it is pure laziness, but if you have a better
> one I can relinquish.
Aw come on BB we ain't had good wrestlin match since the Major and the
Captain got into it. ;>)
Do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Monument Valley Kolb Flyin/Sport Pilot |
Hi Gang:
We made it thanks to the persistence of Rick Neilsen.
This was an excellent issue for the article to be published in
conjunction with OSH. They usually have thousands of free copies
available to attendees.
Thanks again Rick for your idea, initiative, persistence, and being a
member of the MV Clique. hehehe
john h
MKIII/912ULS
PS: And Rick wasn't flying either, but he had a nice rental car to
haul us up and down the hill. ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | EAA Sport Pilot/MV 2005 |
Here ya go:
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%20Pilot/scan0001.jpg
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%20Pilot/scan0002.jpg
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%20Pilot/scan0003.jpg
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%20Pilot/scan0004.jpg
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%20Pilot/scan0005.jpg
Take care,
john h
MKIII
hauck's holler, alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles & Meredith Blackwell <wozani(at)optonline.net> |
It is breaking my heart to do it, but I need to sell my MkII twinstar w/503
DCDI. Seems like not having health insurance has caught up with my family and
there are some unusually large bills coming due soon. I've already posted it
on Barnstormers.com and hope to sell soon. It is a bit less than I paid for
it but I priced it at $10,500. Price is negotiable of course. Always been hangared,
roughly 120 hours on the engine, more like 300+ hours on the psru and
600+ airframe. The original builder worked for Homer and it was built with his
input and oversight. Flies great, lands well, best thing I ever flew in when
considering the fun quotient.
Also looking to unload a 1/4 share in a Cherokee 160 hangared in NJ at 3N6 ($15k).
Will be selling a nearly new pair of Comtronics headsets and an Ultravox intercom.
Maybe 20 hours on the set. Selling a Garmin Pilot III GPS that has the
same time on it. Let me know and I'll send you a price.
I was planning on switching the plane to LSA rules and recovering to give me
a like new plane by next year. Already had replaced the landing gear legs with
nice straight aluminum ones last fall. Put on new Matco drum brakes and tires,
new axles and brackets too. Has a canister BRS750 chute. 3 bladed ivoprop.
Full lexan windscreen with winterizing plugs for the shoulder area. White
with blue accents. Blueprints and build directions included. Built in 1987.
Will trade straight up for health insurance coverage.....
Charlie Blackwell, MkII in NJ
732-972-7947
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Kolb Flyin/Sport Pilot |
In a message dated 7/28/2005 1:47:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:
Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
Hi Gang:
We made it thanks to the persistence of Rick Neilsen.
This was an excellent issue for the article to be published in
conjunction with OSH. They usually have thousands of free copies
available to attendees.
Thanks again Rick for your idea, initiative, persistence, and being a
member of the MV Clique. hehehe
john h
MKIII/912ULS
PS: And Rick wasn't flying either, but he had a nice rental car to
haul us up and down the hill. ;-)
John i just received my copy of Sport Pilot, and really enjoyed the article
along with the great scenery shots! Looked like a nice turnout for an informal
fly-in. I have a question as a newbie to flying, what drew you to the Kolbs
instead of a Titan or Earthstar aircraft or many of the other ultra-lights
available today? That is an open question to the board, and would be interested
in the different responses as i'm sure there were a lot of different reasons.
John , how many hours do you have on your 912ULS, and have you had any
maintainence issues since new? Sounds like you guys that did the western
or was everything just played by ear? Would imagine there must have a few
people flying that aren't retired yet, so must have had some kind of timeline to
meet? Again i want to say thanks for a great article to all involved. Best
regards, Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Kolb Flyin/Sport Pilot |
| I have a question as a newbie to flying, what drew you to the Kolbs
| instead of a Titan or Earthstar aircraft or many of the other
ultra-lights
| available today?
| John , how many hours do you have on your 912ULS, and have you had
any
| maintainence issues since new?
Sounds like you guys that did the western
| or was everything just played by ear? Would imagine there must have
a few
| people flying that aren't retired yet, so must have had some kind of
timeline to
| meet?
Dave Culver
Hi Dave C/Gang:
Well, let's see. The reason I was drawn to Kolb instead of a Titan
or Earthstar or many of the other ultralights available today was
because they did not exist in the Summer of 1983, when I started
looking for an airplane to build and fly. I have been with Kolb since
March 1984, building the Ultrastar, Firestar, and the MKIII, long
before there was a Classic and an Extra.
Dave, I haven't found another airplane that will satisfy all my flight
requirements like my MKIII. If there was one out there, I'd probably
already have built it.
Kolbs are strong, crash worthy, fun to fly little airplanes. They are
also very easy to fly, but can still kill you if certain laws of
aviation and gravity are not adhered to. They are relatively simple
to land without breaking and bending existing landing gear.
And.........they don't quit flying and fall out of the sky unless the
airspeed gets below the indicated stall speed.
The 912 series engines are great and expensive. What you pay for you
get in a 912UL or 912ULS. I have 1,024.0 hours on my 912ULS. The
engine it replaced on my MKIII, a 912UL, had 1,135.0 hours when I
pulled it off. Never had any kind of engine failure or stoppage with
the 912ULS. However, I did have two engine stoppages with the 912UL
caused by contaminated fuel, both times. Pilot error both times.
The flight from Monument Valley to Moab, Salt Lake to the Alvord
Desert, Reno, Santa Clarita, and home was all preplanned and worked
great. Three of us were fully retired, one was sitting on the fence
waiting for a few days to retire, and the other gent was still hard at
it.
Each year the Unplanned/Unorganized Kolb Flyin at MV keeps getting
better. So far everyone has taken care of their own requirements and
duties. That means no one has any assigned jobs or responsibilities.
Makes for a magnificiently simple, enjoyable flyin.
See ya'll at MV in 2006, Lord willing and the creek don't rise.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley Kolb Flyin/Sport Pilot |
|| John , how many hours do you have on your 912ULS, and have you had
| any
|| maintainence issues since new?
| Dave Culver
Dave C/Gang:
Sorry, failed to address maintenance issues.
None......change the oil and filter every 100 hours, spark plugs every
100 hrs, fuel filter and air filter. That is it.
The 912UL and 912ULS have been pretty much problem free.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Pilot/MV 2005 |
John,
Is it just me...or why can't I pull up your MV pix?
Here's what I get...
http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/MV%20Sport%Pilot/scan0001.jpg
Bob N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Tripp" <jtripp(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Monument Valley Kolb Flyin/Sport Pilot |
Dave,
What drew me to Kolb aircraft were 3 things:
1. The first Kolb I ever saw was John Hauck's Mark III 11 years ago. What a
beautiful piece of work and the design was great too.
2. The construction of a Kolb compared to other UL type aircraft was
awesome.
3. I liked the easy fold option. I fold and unfold every time I fly.
James Tripp, FSII, 98 hours
John i just received my copy of Sport Pilot, and really enjoyed the article
along with the great scenery shots! Looked like a nice turnout for an
informal
fly-in. I have a question as a newbie to flying, what drew you to the
Kolbs
instead of a Titan or Earthstar aircraft or many of the other ultra-lights
available today? That is an open question to the board, and would be
interested
in the different responses as i'm sure there were a lot of different
reasons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dive at the field |
FireFlyers & Kolbers,
I try my best to three point my FireFly as it has the small plastic wheels.
I want to touch down at the slowest controlled forward speed (lowest energy
touch down) possible and to minimize risk of bending a gear leg or nosing
over in tall grass. I make my approach at no less than cruise speed. With
the field made, I close the throttle and push the stick forward (dive to the
field) to maintain cruise speed or faster and fly it on down to the desired
flare point. After flaring, I hold it off and with three degrees of
flaperon, it three points on very nicely in about three seconds at about 27
mphi. So far, the FireFly has experienced 539 landings that included one
nose over and no bent a gear legs.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack B. Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
> I had hoped that it would be possible to swing the wing into position with
> the tip on the ground and the strut attached at the fuselage end, then get
> your back under the wing and lift it until the other end of the strut can
be
> fixed. Anyone do it that way?
I always do it that way on my Twinstar and mk 3's. First rest the wing
tab on the pin that is still in the fuselage mount. Then remove the pin and
reinstall it through the wing mount then lift the wing up. Do not allow
anyone to help you lift the wing. It makes it harder to get the strut pin
into the wing. The rest of the set up is pretty straight forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
I am a millwright by trade and fabrication and creative problem solving
are second nature to me. I kept a log book on the Twinstar construction and
amazed myself when I added up the hours.
>
> "woody" wrote: << I documented my build time for my Twinstar and it was
> about 150 hrs using the kit. Mk111 is about the same, maybe a bit more. >>
>
> Woody -
>
> You appear to be a Kolb builder of exceptional talent! As a first-time
> builder, it took me 540 hours to finish my Mark-3 Classic. Apparently,
> experience helps to lower these build times.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bryan green <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
John some time ago you said in a post that if you built another plane it
would be the Kolbra instead of the mark III extra. I have been wondering
why and thought you could expand on this some.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: III vs. Kolbra |
| John some time ago you said in a post that if you built another
plane it
| would be the Kolbra instead of the mark III extra.
| Bryan Green
Hi Bryan G/Gang:
First of all, I like the way the Kolbra performs over the way the Xtra
performs. The Kolbra is a little faster in climb, cruise, and top
speed over the MKIIIc.
The down side to the Kolbra is cargo space, and places to put stuff I
use and like to have within hand's reach in the cockpit.
My MKIII suits me just fine. Was never impressed with changing a good
airplane for the sake of change, i.e., making the nose big, flat, and
long, so my feet would be pointed straight ahead, and making a center
mounted instrument panel on a pedestal.
I look more at functionality and less at style, and keeping up with
the Jones. My MKIII has been modified to suit me and my flying
tastes. It does a great job. That is why I am still flying it.
As for the MKIIIc, I wouldn't want to fly one in the stock
configuration either. No place to put your stuff, like tent, sleeping
bag, clothes, tools, chow, etc.
The Kolbra was being tossed around in my Brother Jim's and my head
many, many years prior to the initial Kolbra being designed and
produced. We would have built it way back then had we had the time
and the money.
john h
MKIII, 912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
woody" wrote: << I documented my build time for my Twinstar and it was
about 150 hrs using the kit. Mk111 is about the same.
Hi Woody,
you must work at a hell of a rate. It took 700 hours to build my Challenger,
including covering and painting and that is childsplay to put together
against the Extra.
Cheers
Pat
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Good day everyone! |
Hi Benny,
Have you made contact with the Central MS Light Flyers club up at
Pisgah? Lots of great guys & a very nice 3000' strip near the HWY 25/HWY
43 intersection. Dee Gilliland is their president. Let me know if you
need his phone # or email address.
http://www.centralmississippilightflyers.com/
We don't have any ultralites over here at Slobovia Outernational, but if
you like bigger a/c too you're welcome to pay us a visit. We are on HWY
49 N about 10 miles north of Jackson. Email me off-list for my phone #.
Charlie
RV-4, RV-7 under construction
Benny Bee wrote:
>
>
>Kolbers,Jerry!
>I thank y'all for warm welcome.I am just getting in to
>this wonderful hobby and currently taking a flight
>lessons from BFI.
>I live in jackson,ms.I searched over the net for a
>ultrastar but every one i found was either too far or
>too much,So i am thinking seriously about building it
>from plans.Don't know yet how much PIA involved but i
>was told to count on around 400 hours. Since i happen
>to have some free time i think it will be wise for me
>to build ,even though it's gonna take a while.I am a
>welder so fabricating part don't really scares me.
>Did anybody on the list built any kolbs from
>scratch,using just a plans??
>
>Thanks,
>BB
>--- Jerry Curtin wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hello BB, Welcome to the list. Where in MS do you
>>live? I am building a
>>Firestar in Diamondhead. This will be my second one.
>>I and everyone else on
>>this list will be glad to help in any way. Jerry
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Benny Bee" <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com>
>>To: >
>>
>>
>contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com>
>
>
>>Subject: Kolb-List: Good day everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello folks.
>>>I am a new member here.This is my first post.
>>>I found this list last night and WHAT A GREAT
>>>
>>>
>>LIST!
>>
>>
>>>I am thinking about getting me a Kolb.Looking for
>>>
>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>ultrastar.I live in mississippi so i was wondering
>>>
>>>
>>if
>>
>>
>>>any kolbers are close by who wly around here?
>>>
>>>BB
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
snip>>Building is very seldom the cheapest way to get a plane.
Bryan Green Elgin SC
but at least you know what you have
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Alternative engines... |
0.06 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com
Good evening 'fellers'!
I was wondering if anyone of y'all flying a geo
conversions or any other alternatives on Kolb?
I know one guy at Fly Geo group has fitted a 3
cylinder geo conversion on one of the Kolbs.Can't
think of a model but he reported a positive results
back then...
Anyone?
Mitty.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Group for ultralights sale or wanted |
0.06 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com
Hey folks.
I started a group a while ago for those who has
anything for sale related to ultralights or looking
for stuff related to ultralights.Check it out..
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ultralights_4_sale/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Group for ultralights sale or wanted |
Benny, rather than reinventing the wheel see Barnstormers.com - don't need
to join another group - also well visited site. You can buy & sell planes
and stuff there. I can attest that it does work.
jerb
>
>Hey folks.
>I started a group a while ago for those who has
>anything for sale related to ultralights or looking
>for stuff related to ultralights.Check it out..
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ultralights_4_sale/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Betty Whitacre" <ULTRAFUN(at)peoplepc.com> |
Hi,
We Are planning a trip. Chuck and I. Chuck my husband flies a kolb.We are going
to see our children One is in Jacksonville Tex. we will be their Sept 5,6,7
Then we our going on to Jacksonville, Florida. We will be their Sept. 9,10,11.
then we will be going on to Jacksonville, North Carolina.We will be their Sept
13,14,15. then headed home to Phx.Arizona . He is bring the kolb with he is
looking for places to fly & people to fly with any part of this trip. He really
really loves to fly.He has been flying ultralights at least 15 years. If you
have any ideas or if you want to go flying, please call or Email. He really
doesn't do email much. Our phone is 623-386-2151.
Thanks Janey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Going on a trip |
At 03:08 PM 7/30/2005, you wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
> We Are planning a trip. Chuck and I. Chuck my husband flies a kolb.We
> are going to see our children One is in Jacksonville Tex. we will be
> their Sept 5,6,7 Then we our going on to Jacksonville, Florida. We will
> be their Sept. 9,10,11. then we will be going on to Jacksonville, North
> Carolina.We will be their Sept 13,14,15. then headed home to Phx.Arizona
> . He is bring the kolb with he is looking for places to fly & people to
> fly with any part of this trip. He really really loves to fly.He has been
> flying ultralights at least 15 years. If you have any ideas or if you
> want to go flying, please call or Email. He really doesn't do email much.
> Our phone is 623-386-2151.
Janey --
I've stopped in at Cherokee County Airport
(http://www.airnav.com/airport/KJSO), which is just south of Jacksonville,
Texas... it's up on a hill and was pretty windy when I was there, but very
nice. (You can read my story about ferrying a plane from Minnesota to
Houston here: http://www.texas-flyer.com/Minnesota/ That's where I flew
into Cherokee County.) It's a very pretty part of Texas and lots to see
for an ultralight. It's a bit too far for me to make a one-day trip, though.
North of Jacksonville, there is Tarrant Field
(http://www.airnav.com/airport/6X0) which is a turf runway, and he'd be
more likely to find ultralights there.
-- Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Kolbers and Kolbettes...
A perplexed and humble Beauford addresses you this evening...
Following decarboning and reassembly of the 447's top end, flew it for 45 minutes
last weekend...
CHT's were 340 to 360.... EGT's normal... below 1100...
This morning I flew it for a second time... On takeoff, CHT's were immediately
about 40 degrees hotter than last flight. Circled
over the airstrip at 5800 RPM for 10 minutes... both CHT's stabilized at 385 to
390... Landed.
Tomorrow, I tear the top back off the engine...
To my non-educated Rotax eye, it appears that the rings are stuck again. They
were clean and the ring grooves
were clean when I put it back together. All 4 rings are installed right-side-up.
Heads and cylinders were assembled
with new gaskets and torqued properly. Any of you experienced 2- stroke Rotaxers
out there have any suggestions as to what might be going on here?
Overheated Beauford
FF #076
Brandon, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com> |
Bro Beauford
Does not sound like the fan belt--but??? Herb
writes:
>
>
> Kolbers and Kolbettes...
> A perplexed and humble Beauford addresses you this evening...
>
> Following decarboning and reassembly of the 447's top end, flew it
> for 45 minutes last weekend...
> CHT's were 340 to 360.... EGT's normal... below 1100...
> This morning I flew it for a second time... On takeoff, CHT's were
> immediately about 40 degrees hotter than last flight. Circled
> over the airstrip at 5800 RPM for 10 minutes... both CHT's
> stabilized at 385 to 390... Landed.
> Tomorrow, I tear the top back off the engine...
>
> To my non-educated Rotax eye, it appears that the rings are stuck
> again. They were clean and the ring grooves
> were clean when I put it back together. All 4 rings are installed
> right-side-up. Heads and cylinders were assembled
> with new gaskets and torqued properly. Any of you experienced 2-
> stroke Rotaxers
> out there have any suggestions as to what might be going on here?
>
> Overheated Beauford
> FF #076
> Brandon, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Going on a trip |
September 17 will be a local fly-in at Hensley Memorial Airpark, which is
about ten miles south of Greenville, TN. There will be a about three Kolbs
and a bunch of other homebuilts and etc, the burgers will be good, and we
can go barnstorming around to several good little strips in the local area.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
423-323-9441
>
>Hi,
>
> We Are planning a trip. Chuck and I. Chuck my husband flies a kolb.We
> are going to see our children One is in Jacksonville Tex. we will be
> their Sept 5,6,7 Then we our going on to Jacksonville, Florida. We will
> be their Sept. 9,10,11. then we will be going on to Jacksonville, North
> Carolina.We will be their Sept 13,14,15. then headed home to Phx.Arizona
> . He is bring the kolb with he is looking for places to fly & people to
> fly with any part of this trip. He really really loves to fly.He has been
> flying ultralights at least 15 years. If you have any ideas or if you
> want to go flying, please call or Email. He really doesn't do email much.
> Our phone is 623-386-2151.
>
>Thanks Janey
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Going on a trip |
In a message dated 7/30/2005 4:09:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ULTRAFUN(at)peoplepc.com writes:
He is bring the kolb with he is looking for places to fly & people to fly
with any part of this trip. He really really loves to fly.He has been flying
ultralights at least 15
You are welcome to come visit our field & fly with 4 or 5 Kolbs & 2 or 3
Challengers & a couple of Quicksilvers. Any Saturday & Sunday, afternoons are
best. Trenton, SC. Edgefield County Airport. 6J6
Most of us will be gone to the Reno Air Races from Sept. 16 to the 21st.
Let me know.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: transporting Firefly |
> I had hoped that it would be possible to swing the wing into position with
> the tip on the ground and the strut attached at the fuselage end, then get
> your back under the wing and lift it until the other end of the strut can
be
> fixed. Anyone do it that way?
I machined a notch (same width as the diameter of the wing pin) in the bottom of
the tab. Put the wing pins in the fuselage fitting without the safety. Walk
the wing around and rotate to horizontal. Drop the notch onto the wing pin
and lay the wing tip on a piece of foam or carpet. Support the front of the wing
root and pull the wing pin. Lower the root until the hole in the tab lines
up, and insert the wing pin (safety this time). Walk to the wing tip and pick
it up. Support it by the leading edge and walk to the wing strut fitting.
Hook the end of the strut with your foot and lift it until you can grab it.
Insert the pin. You don't need wing stands if you use this method.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines... |
"Has anyone on the list Got an extra IVO prop spacer plate they would sell ?
if so I am looking for one, or if You know how long it should be could you let
me know I can build one if I know what the length needs to be for an Original
Firestar and any other info I would need when I machine it out
I just purchased a new prop from a guy on ebay and I think he is trying to
shaft me on the spacer what is it really worth ?"
I just had a 2.75 inch extension machined for my Firestar with a 503 B Box. The
prop is a Powerfin. It cost me $260.00 with shipping (Wow!). Saber Engineering
makes them - did a good job.
Dave Bigelow
FS2, 503 DCDI
Kamuela, Hawaii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCulver701(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: 912S Rpm question |
In a message dated 7/30/2005 6:16:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kolbrapilot2(at)comcast.net writes:
I have pitched the Warp Drive prop on the Kolbra to give me 5500 rpm at full
throttle (aviation term).
The static rpm will depend on the diameter of the prop you have.
At 5500 rpm I get 96 knots on a nice smooth day. That equates to over 6
gallons an hour, so I don't stay their long!
I normally cruise at 4900 rpm which gives me 80 knots. This is about 4.8
gallons per hour.
John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Hi John, your post brings me to another question. Have any of you guys who
do long x-country flights, put in a larger fuel tank for extended range?
Tia, best regards. Dave Culver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
Beauford,
Did you check the ring gap by placing a new top ring in the cylinder and
measuring the gap with a feeler gauge?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack B. Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com> |
1.30 DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 Date: is 6 to 12 hours after Received: date
Kolbers
Need your collective wisdom again.
A couple of weeks ago I had the head removed on my 532, the pistons and rings cleaned,
and then reassembled.
Now it runs rough and will not exceed 1000 rpm. If I add throttle it dies. If I
add a shot of gas with the primer, it dies.
Cleaned the carbs. Has spark and gas at the plugs. Did not change the timing or
touch the crank.
Any ideas?
Jim
Mark III
532
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Now it runs rough and will not exceed 1000 rpm. | Jim
Jim/Gang:
Not an expert on the subject by any means.
Fuel will not burn without a good fire.
532, I assume with point ignition, has to be right on the timing specs
to run.
Same for fuel/air ratio.
If I was committed to the 532 I would start at the beginning and work
off the entire list until complete.
-New coils. They won't run well with bad coils.
-New points and condensers. They won't run well with bad condensers.
-New spark plugs.
-Insure both sets of points are set and ign is timed correctly.
-Set up the carb the way it came from the factory. Float level, main
jet, fuel needle and needle jet, fuel needle height.
-Mechanically synchronize carbs is duals.
Here's a thought: If you removed the pistons??? Did you replace them
correctly? They could be 180 degrees out.
Another thought: Condensers were a pain in the ass. The old had to
be pressed out, and the new pressed in. Easy to screw them up. Make
sure yours are installed correctly.
Isn't there a key on the crank shaft that centers the flywheel. Could
you have failed to replace the key and gotten the flywheel out of
position???
Just brain storming down here in sunny/rainy Alabama. Remember, you
are probably going to fly with this 532 behind you. I wouldn't want
to have any doubts in the back or the front of my mind about whether
or not it is set up perfectly and performing perfectly.
Take care,
john h
Ancient two stroke flyer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
One thing I don't recall anyone else mentioning is the CHT probes. When
re-assembling the engine, did you put the CHT probe rings in the same
place as before? If you had them under a head bolt before and then put
them under the spark plug, or vice versa, the readings could be
different without any change at all in the actual temps in the engine.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| One thing I don't recall anyone else mentioning is the CHT probes.
| Thom in Buffalo
Thom/Beauford/Gang:
Doesn't OAT effect CHT? Most of the gauges I am familiar with are not
static temp compensating. I believe the Westach temp gauges are
calibrated at 70F. One must compensate for OAT when reading the
gauges.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
It sounds like it runs too rich...
Do you smell gass in exhaust? Black smoke coming from
it?
If you havent touched timing nor changed anything
mechanically i would suspect a carb.
Very often engine mis-behavior claimed to be a
mechanical problem while it's not.Mechanically sound
engine will run like crap if fuel mixture improper.
Check out the carb.Disassemble it and wash in
comercial carburetor cleaner.Thats the kind trhat
comes in a can with a little basket .You let the metal
parts soak for a day or two and then wash off with
water.
Check for bending in float or leakage in float.If it
does leak it's probably full of gas by now thus not
regulate fuel properly(too rich)
blow all passages with compressed air.
Assemble and tune.
--- flykolb wrote:
>
>
> Kolbers
>
> Need your collective wisdom again.
>
> A couple of weeks ago I had the head removed on my
> 532, the pistons and rings cleaned, and then
> reassembled.
>
> Now it runs rough and will not exceed 1000 rpm. If I
> add throttle it dies. If I add a shot of gas with
> the primer, it dies.
>
> Cleaned the carbs. Has spark and gas at the plugs.
> Did not change the timing or touch the crank.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Jim
> Mark III
> 532
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Beaufie, Just got back from flying the chain of lakes around Mt, Dora. I
usually run the 447 that Duane flew at 5900. Today the cht showed barely under
300 deg. It did not matter if I was on the deck over the water at 90 deg OAT
or at 1000 ft/78 Oat. However, just like John H says, if you reduce power the
EGT goes down and the CHT goes up. A week ago I remember it down at 280 or so.
What gives? Maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of Mars
this month. The 447 has 165 hrs on it and was de carbed at about 25 hrs. Duane
said it was because they wanted to check inside for some reason.
I run high test auto gas with 50:1 Pennzoil and a little MMO.
I plan to de carb in a week or so, I will let you know what I find.
Steve
FF#007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Jim, John H has already covered about all the bases, but let me add a
couple more - since you cleaned the carbs, is the jet needle below the
nylon cup and not above it?
Are the choke/enrichment cables possibly hung in the on position so that
the little valve is not seating?
Did you remove the rotary valve? And if so, did it go back into the right
setting?
And one final note, the 532 coils are wired opposite to the other older
Rotax engines, the 377/447/503 wiring diagram will have your little blue
coil wires for the 532 primary ignition circuit hooked up backwards. It
will run, but not very well. (Guess how I know this?)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Kolbers
>
>Need your collective wisdom again.
>
>A couple of weeks ago I had the head removed on my 532, the pistons and
>rings cleaned, and then reassembled.
>
>Now it runs rough and will not exceed 1000 rpm. If I add throttle it dies.
>If I add a shot of gas with the primer, it dies.
>
>Cleaned the carbs. Has spark and gas at the plugs. Did not change the
>timing or touch the crank.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Jim
>Mark III
>532
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Thanks to Steve, Don, Jack, John, Ralph and anyone else who offered info and
ideas... It is all much appreciated.
Spent another day baking at the strip again trying to eliminnate possible
causes for high EGT's.
-- Inspected rings thru exhaust ports... probed them with wooden item... all
appear free. Cyls, pistons, etc. look great. Fan and belt tension OK.
-- Did cold retorque on heads, manifolds, George Alexander (his 503 runs
flawlessly), and anything else that got too close while I had the torque
wrench...
-- Flew airplane over strip... EGTs normal... CHT, especially front cyl, ran
away to well over 400 in 30 seconds. Swore. Landed.
-- Inspected plug thermocouples/leads... normal. Swapped thermocouples on
cylinders, front cyl still hottest, so probes are OK.
-- Whined.
-- George disgusted... he departed fix laughing ... went home.
-- Meditated in folding chair in front of trailer... ( proved to be
mistake...)
-- Meditative flash : is Amsoil synthetic preventing rings from
re-seating...? drained Amsoil gas mix (amoco)... mixed fresh Penzoil gas
(amoco)... tied down tail and tried to run break-in protocol on Rotax...
Was unable to complete as written because both cyls went over 430 temp limit
after about 30 seconds on WOT. 2 more hours wasted. Stuffed Kolb back in
trailer.
--Beauford disgusted... put special repeat curse on Austria... departed
fix... went home... unwrapped fresh stogie... mixed Martini...
meditating...
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: <N27SB(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hot Heads
>
> Hey Beaufie, Just got back from flying the chain of lakes around Mt, Dora.
> I
> usually run the 447 that Duane flew at 5900. Today the cht showed barely
> under
> 300 deg. It did not matter if I was on the deck over the water at 90 deg
> OAT
> or at 1000 ft/78 Oat. However, just like John H says, if you reduce power
> the
> EGT goes down and the CHT goes up. A week ago I remember it down at 280 or
> so.
> What gives? Maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of Mars
> this month. The 447 has 165 hrs on it and was de carbed at about 25 hrs.
> Duane
> said it was because they wanted to check inside for some reason.
> I run high test auto gas with 50:1 Pennzoil and a little MMO.
> I plan to de carb in a week or so, I will let you know what I find.
>
> Steve
> FF#007
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Burns" <martin_burns(at)ntlworld.com> |
We have a Kolb mk.III Classic with 582 engine and short wings. The pitot
static system is currently open to the interior of the cockpit. This is not
ideal since changes in engine rpm affect the instrument readings. We have
tried several different external positions which all gave huge ASI errors.
Can anyone recommend an external static vent position that works?
Martin Burns
Mk III G-BUZT
Scotland.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | FireFly Forward Slip |
Old Subject Re: Kolb-List: Quiet Landings/Practice Dead Stick
>
>flaps. They will not extend your glide but they WILL shorten it. As for
>slips they aren't real effective in our Kolbs.
Rick & Kolbers,
Today I turned the FireFly on final over the end of the runway at 1,000 feet
agl, closed the throttle and put on three degrees of flaperon. Then I
pushed the stick forward until the ASI read 50 mph. The VASI read 500 fpm
down. Then I moved the rudder up against the stop and forward slipped at 50
mphi and the VASI read 800 fpm.
I believe this is a significant change in vertical air speed. If I had not
installed VG's the VAS readings would probably have been higher. With 9.75
inch chord ailerons and modified aileron linkage, the FireFly is easily put
into a forward slip.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack B. Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
At 09:14 AM 7/31/2005, you wrote:
>
>Beauford,
>
>Here is a possibility, alky in the fuel, or double oil mix by mistake.????
I did that about 6 months ago - sort of.
Went to the local gas station to fill up my can on the
way to the airport and it being Saturday morning and me having
a hangover and all, I mistakenly put the
green pump handle in the can and pushed the
button. Of course I had already added the 50 to 1 "Wallmart" oil
to the diesel and filled up my almost empty tank.
I don't know exactly what mixture that would equate to, but
it is decidedly on the heavy side of the "oil quotient".
The engine did start, however - the resultant fog machine
that ensued did not make the neighbors happy.
Except for the smell and all the dead mosquitoes, it seems
no permanent damage was done. It would run but I
couldn't get it to tack up more than about 3000 RPM.
I wouldn't chant to synthetic oil if I was you -- Pensoil, Walmart,
- all about the same ---but that's just me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel Walter" <worrybear(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot static |
After fooling around for about a year with different static/pitot positions
I bought a pitot / static tube from Aircraft Spruce and mounted it on the
wing strut about 2 thirds the way up, lots of 1/4" tube and tubing but I
finaly have a reasonable ASI reading.
Dan Walter
Ultrastar with pod and windshield
Palmyra Pa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Burns" <martin_burns(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Pitot static
>
> We have a Kolb mk.III Classic with 582 engine and short wings. The pitot
cockpit. This is not
.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com> |
Hey, is it possible you have installed the heads one half turn off.
I believe one side of the head cooling fins are cast at an angle to
allow the air from the fan to enter the fins more easily. The angled
side of the head should be toward the fan side.
Seems like something is blocking the normal flow of cooling air through
the heads.
Beauford wrote:
>
>Thanks to Steve, Don, Jack, John, Ralph and anyone else who offered info and
>ideas... It is all much appreciated.
>
>Spent another day baking at the strip again trying to eliminnate possible
>causes for high EGT's.
>-- Inspected rings thru exhaust ports... probed them with wooden item... all
>appear free. Cyls, pistons, etc. look great. Fan and belt tension OK.
>-- Did cold retorque on heads, manifolds, George Alexander (his 503 runs
>flawlessly), and anything else that got too close while I had the torque
>wrench...
>-- Flew airplane over strip... EGTs normal... CHT, especially front cyl, ran
>away to well over 400 in 30 seconds. Swore. Landed.
>-- Inspected plug thermocouples/leads... normal. Swapped thermocouples on
>cylinders, front cyl still hottest, so probes are OK.
>-- Whined.
>-- George disgusted... he departed fix laughing ... went home.
>-- Meditated in folding chair in front of trailer... ( proved to be
>mistake...)
>-- Meditative flash : is Amsoil synthetic preventing rings from
>re-seating...? drained Amsoil gas mix (amoco)... mixed fresh Penzoil gas
>(amoco)... tied down tail and tried to run break-in protocol on Rotax...
>Was unable to complete as written because both cyls went over 430 temp limit
>after about 30 seconds on WOT. 2 more hours wasted. Stuffed Kolb back in
>trailer.
>--Beauford disgusted... put special repeat curse on Austria... departed
>fix... went home... unwrapped fresh stogie... mixed Martini...
>meditating...
>
>Beauford
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <N27SB(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hot Heads
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Hey Beaufie, Just got back from flying the chain of lakes around Mt, Dora.
>>I
>>usually run the 447 that Duane flew at 5900. Today the cht showed barely
>>under
>>300 deg. It did not matter if I was on the deck over the water at 90 deg
>>OAT
>>or at 1000 ft/78 Oat. However, just like John H says, if you reduce power
>>the
>>EGT goes down and the CHT goes up. A week ago I remember it down at 280 or
>>so.
>>What gives? Maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of Mars
>>this month. The 447 has 165 hrs on it and was de carbed at about 25 hrs.
>>Duane
>>said it was because they wanted to check inside for some reason.
>>I run high test auto gas with 50:1 Pennzoil and a little MMO.
>>I plan to de carb in a week or so, I will let you know what I find.
>>
>>Steve
>>FF#007
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative engines... |
Mitty,
I am putting a G-10 with turbo on a SlingShot, you can see project
at my website http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/ . -Richard Swiderski
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Benny Bee
contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)roxy.matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Alternative engines...
Good evening 'fellers'!
I was wondering if anyone of y'all flying a geo
conversions or any other alternatives on Kolb?
I know one guy at Fly Geo group has fitted a 3
cylinder geo conversion on one of the Kolbs.Can't
think of a model but he reported a positive results
back then...
Anyone?
Mitty.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh 2005 PreFlight |
When I got ready to head home yesterday I incountered a strange situation.
When I did my preflight I found that that the control stick felt like it had
a couple of heavy bungy cords pulling it into a left bank. I did a bunch of
checking and found the the right flap was FULL of water. It was very heavy
and caused the aleron to droop which I noticed from the control stick. I
punched some holes in the flap and the water drained out. About six years
ago I recovered the flap without removing the hinge and likely opened it for
water entry. When we got that MAJOR rain storm Monday night it must have
filled up. It was a very good thing that I did a good preflight.
I hope everyone got home safe and sound.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 7/30/2005 6:02:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com writes:
any suggestions as to what might be going on here
I doubt if the rings could be stuck again within such a short run time.
Check the fan belt?
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot static |
Mine works good with the Aircraft Spruce pitot static combo right under the
nose cone.
Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA, not flying this summer due to hanger construction and
other crap.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Burns" <martin_burns(at)ntlworld.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Pitot static
>
>
> We have a Kolb mk.III Classic with 582 engine and short wings. The pitot
> static system is currently open to the interior of the cockpit. This is
> not
> ideal since changes in engine rpm affect the instrument readings. We have
> tried several different external positions which all gave huge ASI errors.
> Can anyone recommend an external static vent position that works?
> Martin Burns
>
> Mk III G-BUZT
>
> Scotland.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot static |
Yep. Reads 3 mph slow at stall, 4 mph fast at 90.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>We have a Kolb mk.III Classic with 582 engine and short wings. The pitot
>static system is currently open to the interior of the cockpit. This is not
>ideal since changes in engine rpm affect the instrument readings. We have
>tried several different external positions which all gave huge ASI errors.
>Can anyone recommend an external static vent position that works?
>Martin Burns
>
>Mk III G-BUZT
>
>Scotland.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Cowan <trc1917(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 07/31/05 |
My two cents. Running hot after a good run? I know, just absolutely
know, you checked the idle jet. If it gets event the smallest particle in
the idle jet, it will still run and idle but not well and believe it or not,
you NEED it clear to keep the CHTs down. I would also check to see if you
have scale in your main jet. I used to have a lot of trouble with my 447
with single carb fouling the idle jet inlet. very small. it is very often
overlooked. ted cowan, alabama.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | MY FIST FLIGHT WAS A SUCESS!!!!!! |
Last week I asked the list for help in transitioning from GA to my Firestar. I
thank you all for the helpful advise. The only thing I forgot was that when you
cut the power the nose pops up. No big deal though. Just a little bounce
and no bent gear. The next two landings were picture perfect!
I just went out on the runway at Smoketown, PA, took a deep breath, and gassed
it. In a short distance it hopped off the ground and shot up into the air. I
flew around the airport for a half hour then flew over a friends house near Coatesville.
Then after an hour in the air practicing turns and checking the stall
speed (34 MPH), which was a little higher than I expected, I set up for a landing.
I kept my approach speed to about 50 and flew it down to the runway. After
the round out I cut the power at 1 foot and the nose popped up. I pushed
it back down, but there wasn't enough left for a nice flare and it plopped.
I was getting ready to put it away and Terry showed up and ask if I wanted to go
to Keller Brothers. I smiled and hopped back in and we took off. Perfect landing
there and perfect landing back at Smoketown.
I have been taking GA lessons for three weeks and just Soloed on Saturday. I felt
I was ready. No guts no glory!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar trip |
In a message dated 8/1/05 7:35:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com writes:
> 1100 and cht's at 350 and 290(pto end ?)....you guys got me worried , now !
> ED in Western NY
>
Hi Ed, Sorry to scare you, but my temps have been running in that area ever
since I bought it from Duane. Some days it runs close to 300 and some days
closer to 280. The front cylinder is always hotter and the plug is always
cleaner. Swapping the thermocouples confirms that temps are accurate. At 165 hrs
mine
is more than overdue for a look see.
I suspect that I need to add a little more pitch to the Kiev prop. It stays
under 5200 static but will slightly go over 6500 in level flight. (Thanks John
H for the insight on prop load and it's relation to CHT.)
Steve Boetto
FireFly #007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines... |
Cost for a one off, that sounds about right. Check with IVO - they make
them for Kolb models - cost for ours for an IVO was around $60 if I recall
right - make sure it will fit, mate, & work with the PowerFIn.
jerb
>
>"Has anyone on the list Got an extra IVO prop spacer plate they would sell ?
>if so I am looking for one, or if You know how long it should be could you let
>
>me know I can build one if I know what the length needs to be for an Original
>Firestar and any other info I would need when I machine it out
>I just purchased a new prop from a guy on ebay and I think he is trying to
>shaft me on the spacer what is it really worth ?"
>
>I just had a 2.75 inch extension machined for my Firestar with a 503 B
>Box. The prop is a Powerfin. It cost me $260.00 with shipping
>(Wow!). Saber Engineering makes them - did a good job.
>
>Dave Bigelow
>FS2, 503 DCDI
>Kamuela, Hawaii
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh 2005 PreFlight |
Rick,
Glad you found the problem and had a safe flight home.
Again, thanks for the steak dinner and a place to overnight.
I had an uneventfull return home...the first day I made it to Hot Springs,
AK. The next day I had a tailwind and made it to Dry Creek Airport non stop.
I arrived home at 12:10PM on Friday.
You and Martha come see us sometime.
Gary & Beneta Haley
Quoting Richard & Martha Neilsen :
>
>
> When I got ready to head home yesterday I incountered a strange situation.
> When I did my preflight I found that that the control stick felt like it had
>
> a couple of heavy bungy cords pulling it into a left bank. I did a bunch of
> checking and found the the right flap was FULL of water. It was very heavy
> and caused the aleron to droop which I noticed from the control stick. I
> punched some holes in the flap and the water drained out. About six years
> ago I recovered the flap without removing the hinge and likely opened it for
>
> water entry. When we got that MAJOR rain storm Monday night it must have
> filled up. It was a very good thing that I did a good preflight.
>
> I hope everyone got home safe and sound.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Louise Hart <jbhart(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | Adapting IVO Extension to PowerFin Propeller |
>
>Cost for a one off, that sounds about right. Check with IVO - they make
>them for Kolb models - cost for ours for an IVO was around $60 if I recall
>right - make sure it will fit, mate, & work with the PowerFIn.
>jerb
>
Kolbers,
A solution to adapting a PowerFin propeller to an IVO extension can be found
at:
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly99.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Jack B. Hart
jbhart(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Frantz <tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net> |
Great job John on making your first flights. I wasn't there to witness
you first flight, but I did observe your second and third landing and
they were right on the the money. Pleasure flying with you on your
second flight and was surprised at how well you handled the FireStar
already. Many hours of good flying ahead for you and I hope to join you
some more. Welcome to the Kolb Club
Terry - FireFly #95
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative engines |
Hello Mitty and all,
There are 3 MKIII Classics with BMW R100's flying and mine should fly next
year. I believe 1 has a couple hundred hours on it.
Jason
MKIII Classic
BMW R100
Portland OR
Good evening 'fellers'!
I was wondering if anyone of y'all flying a geo
conversions or any other alternatives on Kolb?
I know one guy at Fly Geo group has fitted a 3
cylinder geo conversion on one of the Kolbs.Can't
think of a model but he reported a positive results
back then...
Anyone?
Mitty.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
i took some copper plate ( 1 1/2 inches square) and drilled 2 holes in the center
and ran two copper tubes ( 3/16 ) through the holes and welded them in
place........ bolted the copper plate to the \bottom of the nosecone in the
area of the nose skid..... bent the tubes so they faced forward..... one tube
is left open in the front ( pitot ) soldered the other over and drilled
some holes in the sides ( static ) they are about 2 1/2 inches below the nose
cone..... it works ok for me.
boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
At 10:19 PM 7/31/2005, you wrote:
>
>Brother Possum...
>I don't think it was doubled.... I mixed it 80 to 1 in front of amused
>Amsoil-skeptic witnesses... and watched it change color in my
>semi-transparent 5 gal jug.... and then, as earlier mentioned, later dumped
>that in the truck and mixed another batch with Pennzoil
>at 50 to 1 to try a breakin trick... No smoke or abnormal performance,
>just high CHT's...
>Good to hear from you...
>Beauford
"Oil does little or nothing to promote combustion. Low ratios (50-1) will
run cooler than higher ratios of (100-1) using the same oil
regardless of the type."
(the article below has it reversed, but I think he is wrong.)
High CHT readings usually are from:
1. Lack of oil in gas
2. No oil in gas.
3. Poor piston/cylinder lubrication.
4. Broken or slipping fan belt.
5. Blocked cooling air-intake.
6. Fuel mixture too lean.
7. Ignition timing too far advanced.
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part12.pdf
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part23.pdf
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part24.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
$216 a set ???
no kidding? wow sure am glad i run one of them thar'' military surplus
"motors"
I feel for ya' thou'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| That does NOT include Florida sales tax and UPS shipping....
| sigh...
| Beauford
Beauford/All:
That is highway robbery!!!
Even so, New rings and hone the cylinders is the way I would go. The
new rings are moly coated to assist in seating. The old rings lost
their moly coating many hours ago.
john h
MKIII - 2,370.3 hours
912ULS - 1,024.4
hauck's holler, alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
that is absolutly crazy,,sorry but i will not run a rotax or any s-stroke,
because of the prices
-----------------
Hi Ron,
If I'm not mistaken, you're running one of the military surplus generator
engines on a Mini-Max right??? Are you currently flying or building a Kolb?
If so, what are you planning to use for the engine?
Cheers,
Rusty (ain't crazy about two strokes, unless I've got two of them)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | alternative engines |
Greetings,
Why is it we don't here more about the HKS engine on Kolbs? By all
accounts, this has turned into a really sweet engine, and it seems to be
getting installed in lots of planes. The price is kinda steep, but it's
pretty well proven now, so you get what you pay for.
Just curious,
Rusty (single rotor Mazda should be assembled this weekend)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
At 07:12 PM 8/1/2005, you wrote:
>
>Brother Possum...
>Thankee for your wisdom and those CPS pages... really good stuff and I
>appreciate it. If Beauford weren't so cheap, he'd have
>ordered some of that CPS stuff a long time ago.
>
>What I need to know, then, is what is the downside of just putting the old
>(130 hours) rings back on their original pistons
>after I hone and de-glaze the cylinders...? Are they likely to re-seat
>satisfactorily after a standard Rotax break-in session using
>Pennzoil air-cooled ?
I'm not an engine guy - so I don't know.
If the rings aren't seated properly - it seems the compression should be
low when you did the compression test.
But if you have a pull start, that might be hard to do.
If you don't have a tester - buy one for $25.00 at the auto parts store.
I forgot if you said you have done that or not?
http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part47.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Slightly better prices |
Kolbers...
FYI -- At L'il Hustler's, found a set of 4 rings for the 447 for about $160 U.S....
That's roughly a $70 plus improvement over Lockwood when
sales tax is included.
Beauford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
If you use an unlit propane torch it will not be as messy.
..get a can of WD and run at partial throttle and spray the
> boots/intake gaskets etc....if it sucks in the WD the engine will respond,
> if it doesnt...just makes a little mess
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron wehba" <rwehba(at)pegasusbb.com> |
yes i am,,had a ultrastar with a cuyuna, and crap wish i had it back,,,had
to sell her!!!and miss it lots, but i do still like my max
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hot Heads
>
>
> that is absolutly crazy,,sorry but i will not run a rotax or any s-stroke,
> because of the prices
> -----------------
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> If I'm not mistaken, you're running one of the military surplus generator
> engines on a Mini-Max right??? Are you currently flying or building a
> Kolb?
> If so, what are you planning to use for the engine?
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty (ain't crazy about two strokes, unless I've got two of them)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> |
I remember buying new rings for a V.W. The gap for the rings had to be set
for the cylinder by grinding the ends of the rings. Could that be the case
with rotax? Check the gap between the ring ends when the piston is in the
cylinder. If it is to tight it will bind and cause problems once it warms up
a bit. This gap sould be in the factory specs somewhere. Can you replace the
rings with the old ones just to try it out?
> I am increasingly drawn back to the notion that the rings are not on the
> cylinder walls and the pistons are not unloading the heat.
> Shame on Beauford for not going the extra 6 inches and re-honing the jugs
> when he had 'em off... I think there
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Benny Bee <benny_bee_01(at)yahoo.com> |
Beauford,
In the first post i missed the fact that you have
replaced the piston rings.
I know from experience that EVEN an automotive engines
do run heat after re-ring.Give them time to break in
.I would give 10 hours of running time and then
mesure.
Like i mentioned before i am new to Rotax but
principle is the same.
Lawnmowers or motorcycles or automotive engines-all of
them need a break in time.If replacing rings-that
would be a great idea to put a hatch patern on the
walls.There is a hones avaliable from the auto parts
stores.Honning needed for the cylinder walls to hold
oil while rings are setting.
I would imagine two strokes are identical as far as
piston/cylinder goes.
So my advice,if of course still interested would be
put a cross-hatch pattern on the cylinder walls by
honning them lightly(it will not take off enough metal
for concern) and then break in the engine by the
manual WITH RECOMMENDED OIL.
--- woody wrote:
>
>
> I remember buying new rings for a V.W. The gap for
> the rings had to be set
> for the cylinder by grinding the ends of the rings.
> Could that be the case
> with rotax? Check the gap between the ring ends when
> the piston is in the
> cylinder. If it is to tight it will bind and cause
> problems once it warms up
> a bit. This gap sould be in the factory specs
> somewhere. Can you replace the
> rings with the old ones just to try it out?
>
>
> > I am increasingly drawn back to the notion that
> the rings are not on the
> > cylinder walls and the pistons are not unloading
> the heat.
> > Shame on Beauford for not going the extra 6 inches
> and re-honing the jugs
> > when he had 'em off... I think there
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Thanks, John...
| Beauford
Beauford/All:
Have you checked your gauges for accuracy???
If not, they could be your problem.
However, if you had stuck rings to start all these ensuing problems,
I'd go with new ones, and hone the cylinders to knock the glaze off.
Then........run the rings in per the Rotax breakin procedure.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternative engines |
In a message dated 8/1/2005 9:12:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Why is it we don't here more about the HKS engine on Kolbs? By all
accounts, this has turned into a really sweet engine, and it seems to be
getting installed in lots of planes. The price is kinda steep, but it's
pretty well proven now, so you get what you pay for.
I think maybe it's a little too heavey for a FS II & not enough hp for the
others.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bass" <gtb(at)commspeed.net> |
Beauford;
With reference to your current dilema, I don't really
see much of a problem here, unless your aircraft
is NOT in a sheltered area or hagar.
Assuming the latter of the 2 scenarios would occur,
(the evening IN, Blockbuster video rental & the fake
Chinese dinner) this would likely force you into some
sort of "seclusion" or "exile" for an unknown period
of time.
What better excuse to become better acquianted with
your best friend (Kolb offspring) and complete those
adjustments/repairs required than to be "sent there"
by your lovely, caring, thoughtful spouse?
Hope this helps to justify your decision,
George Bass
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Pongracz" <pongoflyer(at)myway.com> |
Big congrats on the 1st flight - I'm hoping to have a 1st flight report in a month
or so join you PA Kolbers in some airport hopping. Bob Pongracz...Fogelsville,
PA...Firefly project...Flying M (P91)
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web - http://dell.myway.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
"Real planes use only a single stick to fly. This is why bulldozers and
helicopters -- in that order -- need two"
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ultrastar trip |
Earl & Others,
I'm still here and will always like and fly Kolbs whenever I get a
chance. I had to downsize to a single airplane so ended up buying
something between a Firestar and the Cherokee 140 that me and three
others used to own and fly. The Titan Tornado 2 with 912UL (80 hp) fit
the bill.
Mine is one of the few Tornado II 912 around that has the short (20')
wing rather than the standard 23.5' wing or the long 26' wing. It is a
little faster than the standard wing on both ends of the spectrum. I
really like it except for the tiny back seat. Fortunately, the only guy
brave enough to fly with me is small enough to fit there without too
much discomfort. He and I flew from Buffalo to Cape Cod for a few days
in June, a distance of 414 miles one way. We did it in 4 hours with no
wind.
The Tornado with the short wing does not glide well but in most other
respects it handles like an original Firestar but with much quicker and
somewhat lighter control response in all three axes. I fly a typical
UL type pattern, high and close. On final I put in full flaps and point
the nose down and hold 60-65 mph until flare. The very effective flaps
are great for getting down in a hurry.
With the in-flight adjustable prop solo on a hot day, it climbs at
1,400 fpm, even with the short wing. When I'm flying with Ed Steuber
and other slower aircraft, I put in about 1/3 flaps and cruise at an
indicated 65 mph or so. The stall speed with the short wing solo is
about 52 mph clean(TAS, ~45 IAS) but the nose is so high that I have to
put in a little flap to get the AOA down to near normal cruise angle.
If it did not cost so much to change out, I'd probably put the 26' wing
on it and fly just about as slow as the Kolbs without flaps and still
get a comfortable cruise speed of over 100 mph if I cared to fly that
fast. Most of the time, even when flying alone, I slow down to 80-85
mph so I can enjoy the view better, right down on the deck when the
situation warrants.
Even with the short wing I can operate (solo) in and out of Bob Bean's
1000' long cow pasture he generously calls a runway. BUT the long wing
would be much better. I'm not selling Titans and probably would have
bought a 912 Kolbra if one had been available in my price range, but
the Titan was available in my price range and located only about 1 1/2
hours flying time from here, so that is what I did. I don't regret it
but do miss the lower and slower Kolb world. I just might pop for a
long wing after all!
Thom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
Beauford,
Is it possible you don,t have enough pitch. I know it is a long shot
but maybe it needs more pitch. Just a thought, as it seems to be giving you
fits. When you solve this one it definitely needs to be archived.
Ed ( in Hou)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/3/2005 9:50:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
Ed, too little pitch gives you high EGT's.
Beauford's problem is high CHT's, which might be happening
Richard. I guess I am confused. I sure thought someone on this list said If
your rotax gets too hot when you are breaking in a new engine you need to
crank more pitch in the prop. Wont to high of EGT readings cause the heads to
get hotter too? I am paying attention because I might need to know the remedy
myself.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Don't know who said what, but here is how it works:
Think of your 2-stroke engine as an air pump.
You adjust RPM at any given throttle setting (X) by changing the load (prop
pitch/diameter)
For the rest of this post, assume X equals a constant throttle position
Air flow through the engine at X throttle will vary with RPM change
(Raise the nose, lower the nose, change the prop pitch)
Fuel flow at X throttle is more constant than air flow at X throttle as
RPM's change
Therefore, as you change the RPM's at X throttle by changing the load,
the mixture will richen as rpm's decrease, (less air, almost constant fuel)
the mixture will lean as they increase (more air, almost constant fuel)
In practice, this works out like this:
More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
It is possible to change EGT and CHT independently of each other by
changing jetting and prop load
(These are generalities, - there are grey areas where things overlap)
A high prop load and big jets will give you low EGT and high CHT
A low prop load and small jets will give you a high EGT and low CHT
A low prop load and big jets will give you a low EGT and low CHT
A high prop load and small jets will give you a high EGT and high CHT
And probably a real hit in your Visa card as well.........
Assuming an engine jetted/propped for normal temps, give yourself a
demonstration:
At cruise, lower the nose and let the airspeed and rpm's go up -
The EGT should go up, the CHT should go down.
Raise the nose and let the airspeed and rpm's go down -
The CHT should either go up or stay constant, and the EGT should decrease
Here is a link to a web page I did on this topic:
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm
Having said all this, a healthy engine with Rotax recommended jets and
propped for around 6200 or so static, that will reach around 64-6600 RPM in
level flight ought to have normal temperatures with both the CHT and EGT,
assuming the prop diameter & blade count is anywhere close to typical for
that engine. For instance, the Rotax 582 has a max allowable speed of 6800
RPM, but propping to hit that RPM in full throttle level flight causes the
EGT on my MKIII to be too high in cruise, so I am pitched for 6500 max RPM
in level flight, and EGT's stay constant between 1000-1100 with good
overall performance.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>In a message dated 8/3/2005 9:50:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
>
>
>Ed, too little pitch gives you high EGT's.
>Beauford's problem is high CHT's, which might be happening
>
>
>Richard. I guess I am confused. I sure thought someone on this list said If
>your rotax gets too hot when you are breaking in a new engine you need to
>crank more pitch in the prop. Wont to high of EGT readings cause the
>heads to
>get hotter too? I am paying attention because I might need to know the
>remedy
>myself.
>
> Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| For instance, the Rotax 582 has a max allowable speed of 6800
| RPM, but propping to hit that RPM in full throttle level flight
causes the
| EGT on my MKIII to be too high in cruise, so I am pitched for 6500
max RPM
| in level flight, and EGT's stay constant between 1000-1100 with good
| overall performance.
|
| Richard Pike
Morning Richard/Gang:
I believe all Rotax engines are rated at 6,800 rpm full throttle for 5
minutes. Like "military power". Only thing that is good for is folks
with inflight adjustable props. Ground adjustable props and fixed
pitch props need to adjust pitch for 6,500 rpm WOT straight and level
flight. 6,500 rpm is max continuous power.
Propped at max continuous power of 6,500 rpm, carb adjusted at factory
settings = EGT's in the green at most all throttle settings. Also
gives you best climb and cruise combo for a fixed pitch prop.
We run into the "military power" thing on the 912 series engines also.
5,800 for 5 minutes. So....I set up for 5,500 rpm which is max
continuous rpm WOT straight and level flight.
On a two stroke, overload pitch and the EGT's go down and the CHT's go
up. Too little pitch and the EGT's go up and the CHT's go down.
Screwy, but that's the way it works with two strokes.
Take care,
john h
MKIII - 2,370.0 hours
912ULS - 1,025.0 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Hot heads |
Oh engine prophets all, is there any wonder why I stay tuned to this
list, even though I no longer own a Kolb? The entertainment value is
priceless.
Thom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Options |
| From: | "jctuck3(at)excite.com" <jctuck3(at)excite.com> |
Hey fellow Kolbers! The original tanks on my Mark II Twinstar Kolb are looking
pretty shabby (and leak a little too). What options do I have as for replacing
them? Of course I could buy the same 2 five gallon jugs, but if possible I'd
like to gain a little more fuel capacity. I tried installing a 13 gal Tempo
fuel tank; it would fit in the space for the original containers but installing
it is impossible unless I want to recover the rear fuselage as I would have
to remove the fabric to shove it in there. ; ( I've seen a homemade fibreglass
tank molded in between the wings, but since I do not have an appropriate
workspace to fashion one, it's a no go. Please let me know if any of you have
had any success with replacement fuel tanks. Thanks. Julian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Options |
Don't know about a Twinstar, but a MKIII will accept two 6 gallon red
plastic boat tanks like they sell at Wallyworld. You do need to make a
couple small mods to the original tank bracing setup, & cut out some of the
original tubing brackets, but it ought to be possible to weld it up a mod
on the bench and then put it in place, and then put the tanks in.
The tanks are sort of bigger at the end away from the cap and the handle,
that is the end that goes down and toward the seat back. The handle & cap
end is up and to the rear, and the thing goes in at about a twenty degree
angle. At that angle, they actually hold a bit over six gallons each. They
will bulge the MKIII fuselage side fabric out a tad, but not much. I used
this setup for a while until I made the present 15 gallon in-the-wing-gap
system
One other important thing: if you decide to use them and can make them fit,
be sure and check the original fuel pickup line inside the tanks. They are
about impossible to see from looking through the fill cap hole, but you
want something that goes down to the lowest corner after you install the
tanks at an angle. The original fuel pickup does not reach that far, and
after you get down to half a tank, a steep climb will result in fuel
starvation. (Guess how I know this?)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>Hey fellow Kolbers! The original tanks on my Mark II Twinstar Kolb are
>looking pretty shabby (and leak a little too). What options do I have as
>for replacing them? Of course I could buy the same 2 five gallon jugs,
>but if possible I'd like to gain a little more fuel capacity. I tried
>installing a 13 gal Tempo fuel tank; it would fit in the space for the
>original containers but installing it is impossible unless I want to
>recover the rear fuselage as I would have to remove the fabric to shove it
>in there. ; ( I've seen a homemade fibreglass tank molded in between
>the wings, but since I do not have an appropriate workspace to fashion
>one, it's a no go. Please let me know if any of you have had any success
>with replacement fuel tanks. Thanks. Julian
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Rotax's Patented Hell |
Kolbers and Kolbettes...
Another refreshing character-building day out on the old airstrip with my favorite
engine...
Long story short -- Rings did not seat.... engine is damaged
Ran the standard Rotax break-in sequence on the honed and deglazed cylinders with
Pennzoil Air Cooled 50 to 1 and Amoco gas... actually ended up running it
twice back to back.
Total run time was about 90 minutes. Tail was tied to ground.
-- CHT's both remained high during procedure... 370 to 390 at 5,000... would quickly
build to over 400 degrees if rpm went over 5,000 and I would
be forced to quickly throttle back and let it cool for a minute until temps came
down.
-- EGT's were normal to just slightly high throughout the process.... 1040 to 1160
observed.
-- Started with completely clean pistons, rings, exhaust manifolds and heads. Piston
crowns and cyl heads were shiny, rings and grooves were whistle-clean, exhaust
manifolds were shiny and smooth to touch inside. Following the 90 minutes,
took the top of the engine apart and was amazed to find extensive rock-hard
carbon coke everywhere... crowns of pistons, behind rings, in exhaust manifolds...
all new deposits from the 90 minute run.
-- Pistons and rings had no scuffing before run ... after the 90 minutes, they
now have substantial scuff marks.
-- No changes made in carb jetting or metering rod... metering rod in second notch
from top... both came on the engine new as stock items provided by Rotax.
-- Choke (enrichment piston) was NOT engaged during the run.
Took photos of the aftermath... George Alexander generously agreed to put them on part of his website for anyone who wants to look at them.... http://home.comcast.net/~kolb-driver/Beauford/ In the pics I removed the top ring on one piston and took shots of both sides of it to show carbon infiltration into groove and coked on deposits on ring.... other shots are provided of plugs, heads, exhaust manifold, and the pistons. 100% of the carbon you see was deposited during the 90 minutes. Except for deposits on heads,(which are semi soft) all other deposits are hard as glass.
Am totally baffled as to why this engine is suddenly manufacturing large amounts
of carbon coke....
Sure is exciting to be part of the big extended Rotax-owner family...
Please excuse Beauford a moment... he must go to the latrine and vomit again...
He'll be right back after he cleans up a little
and makes himself a Martini...
Beauford
FF #076
Brandon FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax's Patented Hell |
| -- CHT's both remained high during procedure... 370 to 390 at
5,000... would quickly build to over 400 degrees if rpm went over
5,000 and I would
| be forced to quickly throttle back and let it cool for a minute
until temps came down.
|
| -- EGT's were normal to just slightly high throughout the
process.... 1040 to 1160 observed.
| Beauford
| FF #076
| Brandon FL
Beauford/Gang:
In my uneducated mind the only thing that could cause those kinds of
temps are an engine that was working too hard, e.g., over propped, too
much pitch. Seems that high temps are what caused the coking of the
piston tops. Easy to see where the cooling fuel oil mix was exiting
the ports and flowing over the tops of the pistons, areas that are
clean. Small areas.
The engine is working harder, producing more heat, than it can get rid
of. Lighten the load, let the engine turn up more rpms to produce
same power while pumping more cooling air through and around it.
That is my take on your problem. If it was ignition, especially early
timing, the pistons would have been drilled clean through early on.
Same same too lean condition caused by jetting or float level,
restricted fuel flow, etc. I believe every thing is correct except
prop loading.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dallas Shepherd" <cen23954(at)centurytel.net> |
What is the address where you guys are getting the 925 battery
shipped to you for your Kolbs? I recall you paid $100 for them and did that
include shipping?
Dallas Shepherd
Norfork, Ar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax's Patented Hell |
John...
I agree that the temps are what did the coking... but I wonder whether it
was overpropped.
Today it turned 6,000 static with no hesitation... ran strong... did not
seen to be laboring. I've always set it to
turn about 6K on the ground and 6,400 in level flight. Do you think that is
too much prop?
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax's Patented Hell
>
>
> | -- CHT's both remained high during procedure... 370 to 390 at
> 5,000... would quickly build to over 400 degrees if rpm went over
> 5,000 and I would
> | be forced to quickly throttle back and let it cool for a minute
> until temps came down.
> |
> | -- EGT's were normal to just slightly high throughout the
> process.... 1040 to 1160 observed.
> | Beauford
> | FF #076
> | Brandon FL
>
>
> Beauford/Gang:
>
> In my uneducated mind the only thing that could cause those kinds of
> temps are an engine that was working too hard, e.g., over propped, too
> much pitch. Seems that high temps are what caused the coking of the
> piston tops. Easy to see where the cooling fuel oil mix was exiting
> the ports and flowing over the tops of the pistons, areas that are
> clean. Small areas.
>
> The engine is working harder, producing more heat, than it can get rid
> of. Lighten the load, let the engine turn up more rpms to produce
> same power while pumping more cooling air through and around it.
>
> That is my take on your problem. If it was ignition, especially early
> timing, the pistons would have been drilled clean through early on.
> Same same too lean condition caused by jetting or float level,
> restricted fuel flow, etc. I believe every thing is correct except
> prop loading.
>
> john h
> MKIII/912ULS
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax's Patented Hell |
| I agree that the temps are what did the coking... but I wonder
whether it
| was overpropped.
| Today it turned 6,000 static with no hesitation... ran strong... did
not
| seen to be laboring. I've always set it to
| turn about 6K on the ground and 6,400 in level flight. Do you think
that is
| too much prop?
| Beauford
Beauford/All:
If every thing else is squared away, what else is left to increase
operating temps? OAT and prop load.
What kind of instruments are you using? Digital or analog?
Have you done tach check with prop tach?
Strange problem. Got me scratching my head.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/4/2005 11:46:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
In practice, this works out like this:
More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
Richard,
Let me see if I have it right. During break-in of a new engine, stock
jets. If the head temp gets to high, approx 80% throttle, Taking pitch out of
the prop will lower cylinder head temps? I guess that means an engine propped
for cruising would run with hotter heads than if it were propped for climb.
Is that correct?
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax's Patented Hell |
>
>Am totally baffled as to why this engine is suddenly manufacturing
>large amounts of carbon coke....
>
>Sure is exciting to be part of the big extended Rotax-owner family...
>
>Please excuse Beauford a moment... he must go to the latrine and
>vomit again... He'll be right back after he cleans up a little
>and makes himself a Martini...
>
>Beauford
I hate to see that - I've been there with my old 447 - before it got
water logged.
But--I got still about 500 hours on it first. I did "decarbon" it
several times.
BTW - you can forget trying to keep the carbon off the top of the pistons.
You can have it "spick & span" and the tops will carbon up in 10 minutes
of use - but "that carbon" comes and goes.
Your rings seem to be the problem. ...like you didn't know that already.
It seems you "had to decarbon" your engine since the rings were stuck -
so I can't chastise you with the "don't fix it if it ain't broken" theory.
After enduring the Cyuna back in the 80's,(which, by-the-way you
could replace for $500)
the 377 Rotax with the wrist pin bearing problems, the 447 Rotax,
which was great after the
other two.
This thing just keeps on running like the Eveready Bunny.
I know it weighs more, and isn't rated for a FireFly ---But,
for the rest of the kids - I would like to say that I am amazed at the
endurance of my "Dual Carb 503 CDI E gear box machine".
Cost in 1999 was $4,300 wholesale including the gearbox, Muffler etc.
648 + hours. Ain't a bad deal - and it's still running. I think the 503 is the
best they are going to do on a 2 cycle, 52 HP machine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Yes, and yes, but Beauford's situation still has me scratching my head.
Something is still not right with that whole deal.
An engine normally is not nearly that critical, they are typically
much more tolerant. Normally you expect some variation, but
within a smaller and comfortable range. Normally you have to
be "coloring outside the lines" before things go really bad.
A healthy engine, stock jets, and a prop pitched for around 6250
on climb out ought to be a non-event in terms of drama.
Hey Beauford - what diameter prop and how many blades?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>In a message dated 8/4/2005 11:46:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
>
>In practice, this works out like this:
>More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
>Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
>Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
>More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
>
>
>Richard,
>
>
>Let me see if I have it right. During break-in of a new engine, stock
>jets. If the head temp gets to high, approx 80% throttle, Taking pitch
>out of
>the prop will lower cylinder head temps? I guess that means an engine
>propped
>for cruising would run with hotter heads than if it were propped for climb.
>Is that correct?
>
> Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
Richard: It is a 66" IVO two-blade.
This whole thing really has me way beyond baffled... I agree with you...
something is fundamentally wrong with this picture.
I'm going to order some new rings here in a minute, clean up the pistons and
bores, scrub off the carbon and
have another go at it next week. I have another Bing, a new one off an
8-hour 447 I bought for parts after an accident... I think I will
verify the jetting and metering rod in it and substitute it for the one on
"Dameon" before I run him
again... I'll also defer to you more experienced 2-strokers and lighten up
on the prop to turn
6200 or 6300 static vice the 6000 it was set for yesterday.
Wheee....!!!
Beauford
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hot heads
>
> Yes, and yes, but Beauford's situation still has me scratching my head.
> Something is still not right with that whole deal.
> An engine normally is not nearly that critical, they are typically
> much more tolerant. Normally you expect some variation, but
> within a smaller and comfortable range. Normally you have to
> be "coloring outside the lines" before things go really bad.
>
> A healthy engine, stock jets, and a prop pitched for around 6250
> on climb out ought to be a non-event in terms of drama.
>
> Hey Beauford - what diameter prop and how many blades?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>>
>>In a message dated 8/4/2005 11:46:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>>richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
>>
>>In practice, this works out like this:
>>More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
>>Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
>>Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
>>More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
>>
>>
>>Richard,
>>
>>
>>Let me see if I have it right. During break-in of a new engine, stock
>>jets. If the head temp gets to high, approx 80% throttle, Taking pitch
>>out of
>>the prop will lower cylinder head temps? I guess that means an engine
>>propped
>>for cruising would run with hotter heads than if it were propped for
>>climb.
>>Is that correct?
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 8/5/05 7:57:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
> In practice, this works out like this:
> >More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
> >Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
> >Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
> >More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
> >
>
OK Guys, Now I am really confused, my 447 does not act that way. At my
current pitch setting if I am flying at 6000 rpm and I descend at that throttle
setting, My cht goes up. If I pull back and climb, cht goes down. That made
sense to me because those changes would lean and richen respectfully. What am
I
missing here/
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Start System |
I have a 503 DC/DI and would like to add an electric starter system. Could someone
please give me advise on acquiring (where) and installing all the needed
components for this installation including what battery to use? Thank you.
John Murr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> |
I'm a 4 stroke only person but high temps normally say "I'm too lean". I
know you didn't change anything that you know of but if, when you do your
next break in run, the temps start getting high how about trying richer
jets. There are a bunch of things that can effect the mixture. Carb
problems, intake leaks, crank seals, rotary/reed valves, exhaust systems,
gaskets, etc all can change that mixture.
On the way back from Oshkosh I spent an hour scratching my head along with a
Kitfox pilot trying to figure out why his new HKS wasn't running right. I
left before I lost any more hair, so I don't know were the problem was. Four
strokes aren't all created equal so don't go and switch to a less reliable 4
stroke (Is that possible?)
Hang in there Bill.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beauford" <beauford(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hot heads
>
> Richard: It is a 66" IVO two-blade.
>
> This whole thing really has me way beyond baffled... I agree with you...
> something is fundamentally wrong with this picture.
>
> I'm going to order some new rings here in a minute, clean up the pistons
> and
> bores, scrub off the carbon and
> have another go at it next week. I have another Bing, a new one off an
> 8-hour 447 I bought for parts after an accident... I think I will
> verify the jetting and metering rod in it and substitute it for the one on
> "Dameon" before I run him
> again... I'll also defer to you more experienced 2-strokers and lighten up
> on the prop to turn
> 6200 or 6300 static vice the 6000 it was set for yesterday.
>
> Wheee....!!!
>
> Beauford
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hot heads
>
>
>>
>> Yes, and yes, but Beauford's situation still has me scratching my head.
>> Something is still not right with that whole deal.
>> An engine normally is not nearly that critical, they are typically
>> much more tolerant. Normally you expect some variation, but
>> within a smaller and comfortable range. Normally you have to
>> be "coloring outside the lines" before things go really bad.
>>
>> A healthy engine, stock jets, and a prop pitched for around 6250
>> on climb out ought to be a non-event in terms of drama.
>>
>> Hey Beauford - what diameter prop and how many blades?
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>In a message dated 8/4/2005 11:46:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>>>richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:
>>>
>>>In practice, this works out like this:
>>>More load at X throttle = the engine works harder = CHT up
>>>Less load at X throttle = engine works less = CHT down
>>>Less load at X throttle = higher RPM = leaner mixture = higher EGT
>>>More load at X throttle = lower RPM = richer mixture = lower EGT
>>>
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>
>>>Let me see if I have it right. During break-in of a new engine, stock
>>>jets. If the head temp gets to high, approx 80% throttle, Taking pitch
>>>out of
>>>the prop will lower cylinder head temps? I guess that means an engine
>>>propped
>>>for cruising would run with hotter heads than if it were propped for
>>>climb.
>>>Is that correct?
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| OK Guys, Now I am really confused, my 447 does not act that way.
At my
| current pitch setting if I am flying at 6000 rpm and I descend at
that throttle
| setting, My cht goes up. If I pull back and climb, cht goes down.
That made
| sense to me because those changes would lean and richen
respectfully. What am I
| missing here/
| 't h
| Steve
Steve/Gang:
Sounds like you have the cht and egt gauges wired backwards.
Unloading engine should bring cht down and egt up. Loading it brings
cht up and egt down.
Hard to believe my weed eater is doing all these things at 10,000 rpm
and I don't have gauges to monitor.
Reference carbon on piston tops: It is normal on 2 and 4 stroke
engines to have some carbon. This small amount of carbon acts as an
insulator, reducing some of the combustion heat from being transmitted
to the piston top. This info was passed on to me by a well know
engine builder many years ago when I was flying in front of a 447.
john h
MKIII/912ULS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| From: | Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
Subject: EGT Probe for 912
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:18:34 +0100
Kolb Friends -
I am in the final stages of the 912 installation for my Mark-III.
The engine was originally equipped with an EGT probe in the exhaust pipe.
Since I do not intend to use an EGT gauge in my plane, I removed the probe.
What's left is a 1/8" hole in the exhaust pipe, and I understand it is NOT
recommended that the engine be run with this hole uncovered.
My question is: What's the recommended way to seal this old EGT hole?
Many thanks -
Dennis Kirby
Cedar Crest, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bryan green <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> | OK Guys, Now I am really confused, my 447 does not act that way.
>At my
>| current pitch setting if I am flying at 6000 rpm and I descend at
>that throttle
>| setting, My cht goes up. If I pull back and climb, cht goes down.
>That made
>| sense to me because those changes would lean and richen
>respectfully. What am I
>| missing here/
>| 't h
>
>
>Reference carbon on piston tops: It is normal on 2 and 4 stroke
>engines to have some carbon. This small amount of carbon acts as an
>insulator, reducing some of the combustion heat from being transmitted
>to the piston top. This info was passed on to me by a well know
>engine builder many years ago when I was flying in front of a 447.
>
>john h
>MKIII/912ULS
>
>
Hi John , Beauford and all
I agree with john just clean the carbon off the top of the piston
that will come off easy. The hard coating needs to be there.
Beauford you have gotten a lot of good opinions on this so here goes
mine. Your suckin air my man! You have a gasket or seal leaking and this
is leaning the mixture, check your intake and crank seals. FWIW
Bryan Green Elgin SC
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
To All,
I talked to Travis today at Kolb and he asked if I would post the dates for
the 2005 Annual Fly-In. It is scheduled for Sept 23rd and 24th. That should
be a Thursday and a Friday. If you have any questions you can call him at
606-862-9692. He is about 400 E Mails behind so calling would be better.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming |
In a message dated 8/5/2005 3:37:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, N27SB(at)aol.com
writes:
>
> To All,
>
> I talked to Travis today at Kolb and he asked if I would post the dates for
> the 2005 Annual Fly-In. It is scheduled for Sept 23rd and 24th. That
> should
> be a Thursday and a Friday. If you have any questions you can call him at
> 606-862-9692. He is about 400 E Mails behind so calling would be better.
>
>
> Steve
>
CORRECTION
Sorry, The Kolb Fly In is a Friday and Saturday and the date is still Sept 23
and 24.
Had an old calendar.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TNK Homecoming |
Does anyone have the coordinates? Thanks!
John
-- N27SB(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/5/2005 3:37:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, N27SB(at)aol.com
writes:
>
> To All,
>
> I talked to Travis today at Kolb and he asked if I would post the dates for
> the 2005 Annual Fly-In. It is scheduled for Sept 23rd and 24th. That
> should
> be a Thursday and a Friday. If you have any questions you can call him at
> 606-862-9692. He is about 400 E Mails behind so calling would be better.
>
>
> Steve
>
CORRECTION
Sorry, The Kolb Fly In is a Friday and Saturday and the date is still Sept 23
and 24.
Had an old calendar.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
Does anyone have the coordinates? Thanks!
John
July 10, 2005 - August 05, 2005
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-fm