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Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-fo
September 05, 2005 - September 29, 2005

> > > I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If > > so....sorry for > > the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. > > > http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv > > > Barry > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d-- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
BRS would not of fully deployed to make any difference. I would guess he was under 500 ft. He forgot to fly the plane. That was his only option. I do like to thoughts about shoulder harness and full fuselage though. Chuck S Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of misery. Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without it". Mike Schnabel wrote: Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth passing along... Note: forwarded message attached. Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) From: trimspeed List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five seconds after an engine failure to realize what has happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform the emergency procedures. Powerful...thanks for sending the link. -Gary --- beartooth37129 wrote: > I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If > so....sorry for > the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND". > > > http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv > > > Barry > > > --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five seconds after an engine failure to realize what has happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform the emergency procedures. Powerful...thanks for sending the link. -Gary --- beartooth37129 barryglenn(at)comcast.net wrote: I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If so....sorry for the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv Barry Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Mallory" <wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case, however ther are 28 documented cases where pilots have been saved by a BRS at 100 ft. or less, the lowest being only 25 ft. and all of them faired better than this poor guy. See: http://www.brsparachutes.com/PI_saves.mgi for complete list. Chris M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video > > BRS would not of fully deployed to make any difference. I would guess he > was > under 500 ft. He forgot to fly the plane. That was his only option. I do > like to thoughts about shoulder harness and full fuselage though. > Chuck S > > > Another example of where a BRS Ballistic might have spared him a lot of > misery. Like the American Express Card add says, "Never leave home without > it". > > > Mike Schnabel wrote: > > Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth passing > along... > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com > from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) > To: ultralightchapter104(at)yahoogroups.com > From: trimspeed > List-Id: > List-Unsubscribe: > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video > > --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d > > Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage > to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five > seconds after an engine failure to realize what has > happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform > the emergency procedures. > > Powerful...thanks for sending the link. > > -Gary > > --- beartooth37129 wrote: > > > I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If > > so....sorry for > > the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND". > > > > > > http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv > > > > > > Barry > > > > > > > > > --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d > > > Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage > > to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five > > seconds after an engine failure to realize what has > > happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform > > the emergency procedures. > > > Powerful...thanks for sending the link. > > > -Gary > > > --- beartooth37129 barryglenn(at)comcast.net wrote: > > > I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If > > so....sorry for > > the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. > > > http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv > > > Barry > > > Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > > --hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d-- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
When I saw the video & watched him fly so low over congested & populated area I said to myself, this guy is trouble waiting to happen. We all have seen many fellow pilots fly like their plane is never going to have a problem. I personally refuse to fly into a strip that requires me to fly low, over houses or even trees, on take off. If there is not a place to abort at every moment up to the point I have enough altitude to do a 180 return, then I refuse to operate out of that field. -Richard Swiderski -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bourne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video I dunno........?? I've got a few hours in a Quicksilver 2 seater, and it was tough to get used to[Richard Swiderski] landing procedure. Coming in on final at 300 ft, the instructor told me (and showed me) to wait till the numbers were between my feet, chop the throttle, point the nose down and keep the Hall airspeed indicator at 45 mph (if I remember right) and flare at the very last second. It was a little (??) hair raising at 1st, and we came down very steeply.......I'd guess at a 45 deg angle, and we'd touch down not much past the numbers. Not much of a glide ratio there. I think you and John are right, tho'. Looks like he forgot to fly the plane, for all the time he had TO fly it. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: UL crash video > > Looked like to me that he forgot to fly the plane. Looked like a Quick > Silver which as I understand it has a good glide ratio. > > > | the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. > | > | > | http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv > | > | > | Barry > > Mike S/Gang: > > Take particular note what this pilot does when the engine quits. He > has just passed over a long straight dirt/gravel road. Instead of > banking left and pushing the stick forward, he immediately tries to > make the UL levitate by pulling all the way back on the control stick. > No wonder it went down so fast. He stalled the aircraft before it > went into the trees. > > I may be speaking out of turn as I have zero experience in any other > UL except Kolbs and Burt Howland's Honeybee. > > A good piece of teaching video!!! > > john h > MKIII > > PS: This one ought to be archived so others can refresh themselves > prior to engine failure. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2005
From: bryan green <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
I think the point that is getting missed here is it would have been so easy to stay over the runway as long as possible. IMHO Bryan Green Elgin SC russ kinne wrote: > >Some things to be learned here -- >1 NO shoulder belts! >2 It would have been so easy to stay over the nearby road, 'just in >case'. > Don't they teach this any more? > >On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote: > > > >> >>Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth >>passing along... >> >>Note: forwarded message attached. >> >>Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com >> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) >>To: ultralightchapter104(at)yahoogroups.com >>From: trimspeed <trimspeed(at)yahoo.com> >>List-Id: >>List-Unsubscribe: >> >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video >> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d >> >>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage >>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five >>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has >>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform >>the emergency procedures. >> >>Powerful...thanks for sending the link. >> >>-Gary >> >>--- beartooth37129 wrote: >> >> >> >>>I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If >>>so....sorry for >>>the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND". >>> >>> >>>http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv >>> >>> >>>Barry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d >> >> >>>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage >> >>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five >> >>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has >> >>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform >> >>the emergency procedures. >> >> >>Powerful...thanks for sending the link. >> >> >>-Gary >> >> >>--- beartooth37129 barryglenn(at)comcast.net wrote: >> >> >> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If >> >> so....sorry for >> >> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. >> >> >> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv >> >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d-- >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
I agree. He set himself up to fail. I think the point that is getting missed here is it would have been so easy to stay over the runway as long as possible. IMHO Bryan Green Elgin SC russ kinne wrote: > >Some things to be learned here -- >1 NO shoulder belts! >2 It would have been so easy to stay over the nearby road, 'just in >case'. > Don't they teach this any more? > >On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote: > > > >> >>Received this from EAA 104 Ultralight member, thought it was worth >>passing along... >> >>Note: forwarded message attached. >> >>Authentication-Results: mta105.mail.mud.yahoo.com >> from=yahoogroups.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) >>To: ultralightchapter104(at)yahoogroups.com >>From: trimspeed <trimspeed(at)yahoo.com> >>List-Id: >>List-Unsubscribe: >> >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: [ultralightchapter104] UL crash video >> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d >> >>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage >>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five >>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has >>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform >>the emergency procedures. >> >>Powerful...thanks for sending the link. >> >>-Gary >> >>--- beartooth37129 wrote: >> >> >> >>>I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If >>>so....sorry for >>>the repeat. Remember...."ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND". >>> >>> >>>http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv >>> >>> >>>Barry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d >> >> >>>>Great video Barry. Four seconds from engine stoppage >> >>to impact. The FAA says it takes a pilot about five >> >>seconds after an engine failure to realize what has >> >>happened. Only then can the pilot begin to perform >> >>the emergency procedures. >> >> >>Powerful...thanks for sending the link. >> >> >>-Gary >> >> >>--- beartooth37129 barryglenn(at)comcast.net wrote: >> >> >> I don't know if any of you have seen this or not. If >> >> so....sorry for >> >> the repeat. Remember....ALTITUDE IS OUR FRIEND. >> >> >> http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv >> >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Visit your group "ultralightchapter104" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>ultralightchapter104-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--hkdbIZrBjBWhOIUaLID6TH0hdAXOhck3QCjMg6d-- >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case>> Hi , I have just had a look at the BRS site. Why are the planes in their demonstration page all Kolbs? Huh? Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: russ kinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
Pat I must be looking at a different BRS site -- I see 177 'saves' but only 3-4 are Kolbs. No pix. With my confuser skills I prolly just missed it. Is this www.BRSparachute.com? The chute would have helped almost no matter how late deployed. Would stop FORWARD motion even if not time to stop downwards much. And tangling in treetops would help too, even un-deployed. But this is one poorly trained pilot!! -- he did most everything wrong. But lived, at least. I heard of a Navy pilot who had a main gear collapse during the catapult launch on a carrier -- (how's that for an attention-getter???) and was quick enough to pull the ejection handle so he was shot out of the aircraft horizontally -- went into the water about 50 yd from the side of the carrier & was promptly fished out. Then loudly demanded another airplane because the first one quit on him !! Quite an excellent performance -- he had only 1 second or so to pull the magic handle. Now, that's a pilot -- Hope you can straighten out the W&B problems with your bird -- I'm sure you know NEVER to take off with any kind of aft CG -- Egad, man but you've been thru the wringer on this one; certainly hope you get everything righted soon . Also was disappointed to read the account of the UK importer being so stinky. No one needs that. May the world treat you well, and often -- Russ On Sep 5, 2005, at 12:11 PM, PATRICK LADD wrote: > > > The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case>> > > Hi , > I have just had a look at the BRS site. Why are the planes in their > demonstration page all Kolbs? Huh? > > Cheers > > Pat > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DCulver701(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 05, 2005
Subject: Re: Mk111 questions?
Thanks Rick to your response to my question on Flaps vs flaperons. Best regards, Dave Culver ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re; Getting Close
Date: Sep 05, 2005
Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL I hear about plenty of people flying FAT UL's and getting away with it......I don't want to be checking my 6 always. ----------------- (RD) Sounds like you're doing it EXACTLY right to me sir. My compliments on your approach. Cheers, Rusty (RV-3 sold, rotary SS project shifting into high gear) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cat36Fly(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 05, 2005
Subject: Re: Re; Getting Close
Mike; I don't think your doing too much as I am doing the same thing on my "Experimental Extra". VHF,Xponder,ELT, and a VFR panel. Flying here in Delaware I have BWI ,DC,Philly, Dover AFB ,McGuire AFB and others very close by. So to go anywhere I am flirting with controlled airspace. Larry N615RT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re; Getting Close
Date: Sep 05, 2005
Like I said, I may be wrong, but I do not think all of that is necessary to fly Light Sport or heavy Ultralight. Chuck Anybody else see that I'm doing TOO MUCH to get this thing in the air?......I'm just trying to be LEGAL I hear about plenty of people flying FAT UL's and getting away with it......I don't want to be checking my 6 always. ----------------- (RD) Sounds like you're doing it EXACTLY right to me sir. My compliments on your approach. Cheers, Rusty (RV-3 sold, rotary SS project shifting into high gear) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 05, 2005
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
I looked at the video a bunch of times, and put the section from engine failure to leaves going by in a loop. My impression is that there wasn't much the pilot could do. The biggest mistake I saw was the decision to climb over the trees rather than follow the road. The camera lens is a wide angle lens, and everything looks further away than actual. That particular QS was climbing in an under-powered manner. Wonder what type of engine it had? When it quit, he did push forward quickly and then immediately flared into the tree tops. I don't think he had a prayer of turning to the road. Let's face it folks. We all (at least occasionally) take off from fields where there is point if the engine fails, it is going to be disastrous. That's what happened here. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, Hawaii FS2, 503 DCDI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Steuber" <esteuber(at)rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Bogus Parts
Date: Sep 06, 2005
The final reason for the Cuyuna quiting is that the wrist pin bearings were not even for a Cuyuna...I sent them to the Cuyuna parts supplier in Illinois and he said he did not recognize them from anything he has seen. They were 11 roller caged type but not for a Cuyuna......came to me from a reputable shop teardown but who knows what was done after the last owner took possession of it.......it came with the paperwork from the shop but was dated a couple years earlier in which time the last owner may have done the deed....I have run into this in standard category aircraft before....the FAA told us at the last IA meeting that annual inspections are only liable to the time the owner flys it away.....once it leaves a mechanics control , he has none ! Paper work only allows crooks to function more easily in a trusting environment...... Works the same way with non -certified UL's....still hard to prove "who done it" Wonder who it was that put my butt in harms way.....hope he has a "nice" day Ed in Western NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Hi Russ, seeing that your post went to the list (by accident) I will reply the same way. My comment about Kolbs being featured on the BRS page was a jocular comment occasioned not by the appearance of Kolbs on their list of `saves` but the fact that the page showing how the parachute deploys when mounted above or below the fuselage. The illustrative drawings appear to me to be Kolbs.(and the lines go through the propellor). Sorry if I upset anyone. Incidentally can someone post the URL to that piece of film of the U/L crash. I accidentally wiped it. Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Subject: Re: UL crash video
In a message dated 9/4/2005 9:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, tnfirestar2(at)yahoo.com writes: http://www.frogflyers.com/CrashVideo.wmv wow! what a great....but painful lesson!! Major problem as I see it: too low over the trees when he got there, and held the elevator level too long (2 seconds) before pulling it up which happened after he was in the trees. you could hear the engine tightening up, slowing down a full second or two before it stopped....thatis when the nose should have been lowered and a shallow turn of 40 deg to go to the street may have been enough airspeed to give him control. I was amazed at how that puppy mushed almost straight down...no glide ratio there! George Randolph Firestar driver from the Villages fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Subject: Re: UL crash video
In a message dated 9/5/2005 9:54:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: The BRS may not have fully deployed in this case, however ther are 28 documented cases where pilots have been saved by a BRS at 100 ft. or less, the lowest being only 25 ft. and all of them faired better than this poor guy. See: http://www.brsparachutes.com/PI_saves.mgi for complete list. Chris M I counted 7 Kolbs including one firefly in the list .... more than I had imagined as I haven't heard of any on this list. I noticed at least one was due to inexperience after an engine out on another craft. George Randolph firestar driver from the villages, fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 06, 2005
use all the runway unless it's a 7000' expressway.>> Hi Robert, good thinking. They say there is nothing so useless as runway behind you. As for keeping `alittle above the stall` at take off. A lot above the stall would keep me happier. Although I usually land the Challenger at 40/45 knots over the hedge I know she will not quit flying until down to abou 26knots. I climb out at 50 knots. Big margins for me. Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Subject: Re: UL crash video
In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:13:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes: use all the runway unless it's a 7000' expressway.>> Hi Robert, good thinking. They say there is nothing so useless as runway behind you. As for keeping `alittle above the stall` at take off. A lot above the stall would keep me happier. Although I usually land the Challenger at 40/45 knots over the hedge I know she will not quit flying until down to abou 26knots. I climb out at 50 knots. Big margins for me. Cheers Pat hear hear...withyou 100% George Randolph the ol glider pilot from The Villages, fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 05, 2005
May I add my 2 cents? As a recent unwilling participant in engine outs I would like to say that all properly trained pilots will drop the nose as soon as the engine gets rough or quiet no matter what and without thinking. Holding the stick back won't keep you in the air. Lets call this emergencey protocall 101. Engine quiet, nose down. Now figure out what to do. In that order. Could a chute have helped? Don't know but it would have been something to do on the way in. I didn't have one and don't know if I would have deployed it. Past experience had taught me not to worry about a simple engine out. Up untill the last couple seconds I thought I would make it with minimal damage. Damm wrong again. At that point in time I doubt I would have taken my hands off anything to pull the handle anyway. I have not seen the video but if the idiot made a habit of low flying over congested areas he was not a properly trained pilot and was an accident waiting to happen. Altituide is the pilots best friend. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "c b" <seedeebee(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Hey Guys, What's your opinion re BRS vs. Glide to a Landing over a suitable looking field (you can never really tell). Over trees it's a no brainer (pull the handle). Over an "open" field though...? I know of a Long-EZ driver who suffered an engine out and was able to glide to a suitable field. As he approached he saw trees at the far end. He decided to shoot for the approach end of the field, rather than the center, so he would be sure to roll out before hitting the trees, so as not to damage his bird. When he got 30' or so over the approach end he hit the power lines that PG&E decided to string along the boundary of the field. Nosed down 45 degrees and went in. Paralyzed for life, but lived. He figures if he hit the middle of the field he would have bent the plane, but he would have been going fairly slowly when he hit the trees... Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing? Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent gear etc... Chris Banys MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Good point. Truth is that you never really know until you find out. "You'll know you know when you know" LEBTF Chuck Hey Guys, What's your opinion re BRS vs. Glide to a Landing over a suitable looking field (you can never really tell). Over trees it's a no brainer (pull the handle). Over an "open" field though...? I know of a Long-EZ driver who suffered an engine out and was able to glide to a suitable field. As he approached he saw trees at the far end. He decided to shoot for the approach end of the field, rather than the center, so he would be sure to roll out before hitting the trees, so as not to damage his bird. When he got 30' or so over the approach end he hit the power lines that PG&E decided to string along the boundary of the field. Nosed down 45 degrees and went in. Paralyzed for life, but lived. He figures if he hit the middle of the field he would have bent the plane, but he would have been going fairly slowly when he hit the trees... Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing? Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent gear etc... Chris Banys MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video
Date: Sep 06, 2005
Interesting discussion. I would say that the aircraft condition should not be taken into consideration at all. Too many people have lost their lives by trying to "save the plane". Forget that! Save yourself, and get a new plane. The subject of when to pull the BRS isn't simple either. As well as they appear to work, they aren't perfect. We rarely hear about the ones that don't work, but I suspect there are a fair number that fail to save the pilot for one reason or another, not necessarily BRS's fault. There's always the possibility that the chute will get fouled, or not deploy correctly. If that happens, you're in deep you know what, so it better have been your last hope in the first place. Even with a perfect deployment, you still have to hope that you don't drift into a power line, or in front of a truck, or train, etc. The bottom line is that it's far better to NOT have to use the chute. I really do believe these are a last resort item, and not something to be counted on. It really bothers me to hear Cirrus owners say they will just pull the handle if they stumble into IMC. I agree that over trees is a no brainer, and it's the main reason I got a BRS for the SS. Around here, the primary crop is pine trees for paper company use. It's easy to say you shouldn't fly over any area that doesn't have a safe landing option, but it just simply isn't always possible. If I have a good road, or open field, I'll take that any day rather than using the chute, though it's good to know that the chute could still work at lower altitudes. Lot's of the field that initially look pretty good from altitude, are full of pine tree stumps that haven't been removed yet. That would be a tough call. Over water, I'll probably ditch the plane, rather than use the chute. All the above are just my thoughts, and not necessarily correct. Whatever you decide, I think it's helpful to think about it prior to the actual event. I'm betting that will improve your response if it actually happens. Cheers, Rusty (zoom, zoom) ---------------------------- Never a good choice, but the moral of the story is, how much do you take your precious airplane (and wallet) into account in a forced landing? Pulling the handle will cost at least $3,000 plus downtime to repair bent gear etc... Chris Banys MK III Amphib (on wheels right now) 912 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2005
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Dear Listers, I will be taking the Matronics Web Server down for a few hours today, Tuesday September 6 2005 for a chassis upgrade. Archive browsing and searching along with subscription services will be unavailable for be processed normally during the upgrade. Please check the Matronics System Status Page for updates (although this page resides on the web server and won't be available during the upgrade): http://www.matronics.com/SystemStatus/ Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2005
From: Ron <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net>
Subject: BRS use- Re: Re: UL crash video
Too many people have lost their lives by trying to "save the plane". Forget that! Save yourself, and get a new plane. Words to live by! (pun intended) The last consideration a pilot should have is which is more valuable, him or his contraption. Like it has been said, you can fix almost anything except death. As for the video of that fellow crushing into trees. All I can think of is "but for the grace of god there goes I". Could have he recovered in time to turn to his left and make the road? I'd like to think he could, but if it would, it would have to have been a split second decision. I ain't gonna second guess the fellow. Ron Arizona ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 06, 2005
From: Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
At 03:25 AM 9/6/2005, you wrote: > >I looked at the video a bunch of times, and put the section from engine >failure to leaves going by in a loop. The fellow was a 100-hr Cessna driver, and low-time UL pilot (first flight in his QS was 8/6/2005). Altitude is your best friend, but so is Experience. He has some, now. The engine he had on that QS was a Cuyuna 430. I give the guy mucho grande credit for posting the video... He didn't have to post it, but it may save the lives of many others who see it. -- Robert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2005
From: John Jung <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: UL crash video
Group, I owned two Quicksilvers before getting a Kolb, and here is what I think after seeing the video: The pilot was too low over the trees. At the point his engine quit, he had no choice, he was not going to aviod the trees. He did not immediately put the stick forward and his stall started two seconds after the engine quit. I believe that he would not have hit the trees as hard if he had maintained control and flaired into the trees. But we didn't see the rest of the crash, and couldn't tell if he hit the ground and how much of his injuries were caused by that. John Jung Currently visiting Wisconsin and away from my Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Geo engine
Date: Sep 07, 2005
2.33 DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 Date: is 12 to 24 hours after Received: date Does anyone have a geo/metro on their Mark III Kolb and actually flying with it? Jim Mark III ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2005
From: Ron <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re: UL crash video
I must say when I flew last night I remembered that damned video and flew about a 1000ft higher than usual and kept a sharp eye out for landable fields. Cheer Pat ======================= Great! it means the video is doing its job. Because of the video I decided to get a BRS. To this point I didn't think it was needed, that clip though changed my mind. I rather part with 4K than the alternative, that I need it and it ain't available. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 07, 2005
From: Ron <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Geo engine
> >Does anyone have a geo/metro on their Mark III Kolb and actually >flying with it? > >Jim >Mark III ================================ Go to the Geo metro group on yahoo. There are a few people flying that engine. I have decided on that engine, but can't find any. The recommended engine is the 13 B for our type airplane the M3. You would figure there will be many of these engines out there and yet.... Richard Siderski is converting one for his M3X but he is not yet flying. There is another fellow who has one and he *is* flying. Which brings up another point Great Plaines has a water cooled VW conversion that looks real promising any thoughts on their offerings? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dama" <dama(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Kolb Database Problems
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Some of you have already noticed that the database is blank. I am having trouble with publishing and it appears to be in my software. I am no techno geek and can barely maintain the site that I have but I will try to fix it ASAP. If you need any contacts, you may email me directly to look it up. Thanks, Kip http://www.springeraviation.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Ballenger" <ulpilot(at)cavtel.net>
Subject: MK III X FLYING CHARACTERISTICS WITH A PASSENGER
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Fellow Kolbers I am nearing 40 hours on my rotax 582 powered MkIII and starting to experiment with flying different weight sand bags to simulate passenger weights. I have flown with 60 , 120 and 180 pounds of sand in the passenger seat. I have been changing my HZ Stab LE height to keep my trim in check. When flying solo. I have the LE in the top hole of the 4 hole adjustable HZ Stab bracket and it flies great. For each 60 pounds of increased weight, I am moving the LE down one hole and so far it is working out. Has anyone else experimented with the HZ stab incidence when flying different weights in the passenger seat? Thanks Jim Ballenger Selling a FS KXP 447 Flying a MK III X 582 Virginia Beach, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Geo engine
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Ron/All The water cooled Greatplanes heads look to be great but at $3400 that's a bunch of money. That would make the VW about twice as expensive as a stock VW and with the extra weight you might be getting close to the weight of a Subaru. Then will the engine handle the extra power for the long term. And we really don't have a great reduction drive for the VW engine. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Geo engine > >> >>Does anyone have a geo/metro on their Mark III Kolb and actually >>flying with it? >> >>Jim >>Mark III > ================================ > > Go to the Geo metro group on yahoo. There are a few people flying that > engine. > > I have decided on that engine, but can't find any. The recommended > engine is the 13 B for our type airplane the M3. > You would figure there will be many of these engines out there and yet.... > > Richard Siderski is converting one for his M3X but he is not yet > flying. There is another fellow who has one and he *is* flying. > > Which brings up another point Great Plaines has a water cooled VW > conversion that looks real promising any thoughts on their offerings? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: MK III X FLYING CHARACTERISTICS WITH A PASSENGER
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Has anyone else experimented with the HZ stab incidence when flying different weights in the passenger seat? | Jim Ballenger Hi Jim B/Gang: Don't know about the Xtra, but I knew I needed some help with pitch trim based on experience flying passengers in the Factory MKIII. When I built my MKIII, Jim Hauck and I came up with 4130 mounting fittings that allowed three difference settings. My top setting originally was set about an inch below the top of the tail boom. That wasn't enough, so I drilled them out and moved them down some more. Ended leaving them set in the middle position for all loads. That is where the airplane and I fly the best. That is where we are the most comfortable. Don't know that that experiement was ever done prior to ours, February 1991. Take care, john h hauck's holler, alabama MKIII - 2,371.5 hours 912ULS - 1,025.6 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Martin" <kolbdriver(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Thanks for the info. Need to get a pressure tester. What's your take on AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems)? One nice thing about this covering system is the lack of noxious fumes. And there will be a workshop near me in a month or so. Don >From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> >Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine >Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 07:43:19 -0400 > > >I would expect the engine to be in OK shape. Do a crankcase test on it just >to be sure. You need to have a crankcase pressure tester anyway, now is a >good time to get one. > >Randolph fabric coatings are great. I have used both Randolph and Stits, >and the same techniques apply to both. IMO, Randolph coatings dry a bit >quicker, which helps when you are applying all the tapes. This is a very >subjective opinion, but I remember Randolph as a bit quicker to work with. >Or maybe I was just getting old by the time I got to the Stits... > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > > > >Kolb group: > > > >I've got a chance to pick up a 2003 Rotax 503 with oil injection for what > >seems a reasonable price. The engine is still in its transport box. >Would > >problems like internal corosion or deteriorating seals have developed >over > >the 2 year period? What protective measures should I use if kept in >storage > >for another year? > > > >Anybody familiar with the Randolph method of coverings/paints? Good?Bad? > > > >Thanks > > > >Don > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Geo engine
Date: Sep 07, 2005
Rick, Check out the SPG-2, it is very robust & affordable. See it at http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml It is being used with VW's but not shown on that site, Vassli the importer would be happy to talk with you. Richard Swiderski -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard & Martha Neilsen Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Geo engine Ron/All The water cooled Greatplanes heads look to be great but at $3400 that's a bunch of money. That would make the VW about twice as expensive as a stock VW and with the extra weight you might be getting close to the weight of a Subaru. Then will the engine handle the extra power for the long term. And we really don't have a great reduction drive for the VW engine. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Geo engine > >> >>Does anyone have a geo/metro on their Mark III Kolb and actually >>flying with it? >> >>Jim >>Mark III > ================================ > > Go to the Geo metro group on yahoo. There are a few people flying that > engine. > > I have decided on that engine, but can't find any. The recommended > engine is the 13 B for our type airplane the M3. > You would figure there will be many of these engines out there and yet.... > > Richard Siderski is converting one for his M3X but he is not yet > flying. There is another fellow who has one and he *is* flying. > > Which brings up another point Great Plaines has a water cooled VW > conversion that looks real promising any thoughts on their offerings? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: : Kolb-List:leaving this group
Date: Sep 08, 2005
Carl All, I find it rather sad to hear that a fellow Kolber feels so bo bad about the level of service he got after crashing his Kolb. As European Dealer for Kolb we try to offer all the support possible. If I remenber correct;y when Carls hagar collapsed onto his Kolb I supplied FREE of charge advice on how to repair and the required rivets FREE of charge. Also further to Carl contacting us regarding purchasing a new cage I made several calls to TNK to try to get the best solution and quotes (which they will confirm). Following this an E-Mail was sent to Carl offering 2 possibilities for repair, after 1 week no reply was recieved so a follow up mail was sent with no reply. As price was a consideration we assumed Carl did not want to purchase. We offer free advise to all Kolb owners over here weather they brought from us or not and try our best to promote Kolb through Europe. I havejust come back from a 2000 mile flight in our Kolb Xtra showing it around France DOING OUR BEST FOR TNK. I would suggest either Carl did not recieve our mails for some reason or he did want to purchase a new kit package. Sorry to hear of a lost Kolber. Kind Regards Mike Xtra/Jab 2200 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Trollope" <flash_too(at)yahoo.co.uk> Subject: RE: Kolb-List:leaving this group > > I am leaving this group as I no longer have a Kolb... > > An unfortunate incident lead to my Kolb sustaining damage to cage and > boom... > > No problem I thought .... just order the spares from the states.... > > Great idea, the factory were great with advice and help but then Kolb put > me > in touch with the UK importer...... > > Well..... > > After a deafening silence of many months I have unfortunately decided that > I > can wait no longer... > > So I have now ordered a Skyranger....whose importer seems to offer an > excellent service.. > > So if anyone wants a set of wings and tailplanes etc for a Kolb > MkIII...... > > Carl > > > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Geo engine
Date: Sep 08, 2005
Hi Richard, How heavy is that SPG-2 drive? At the moment, there really isn't a good PSRU for a single rotor Mazda, so I'll be using one made for a two rotor, and it weighs about 44 lbs. There is a guy who converted a Hirth G-40, which probably totals about 25-30 lbs complete, but it's only good to 120 HP I think. That's plenty for the SS of course, but a single rotor with turbo would be capable of about 180 hp, which is what the SPG-2 is rated for. BTW, just when the heck do you plan to finish that thing :-) Cheers, Rusty -------------------------- Rick, Check out the SPG-2, it is very robust & affordable. See it at http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml It is being used with VW's but not shown on that site, Vassli the importer would be happy to talk with you. Richard Swiderski ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: MK III X FLYING CHARACTERISTICS WITH A PASSENGER
Date: Sep 08, 2005
Is kolb making a adjustable front stab bracket? I haven't drilled mine yet and would like to know before making holes. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Jim Ballenger [mailto:ulpilot(at)cavtel.net] Subject: Kolb-List: MK III X FLYING CHARACTERISTICS WITH A PASSENGER Fellow Kolbers I am nearing 40 hours on my rotax 582 powered MkIII and starting to experiment with flying different weight sand bags to simulate passenger weights. I have flown with 60 , 120 and 180 pounds of sand in the passenger seat. I have been changing my HZ Stab LE height to keep my trim in check. When flying solo. I have the LE in the top hole of the 4 hole adjustable HZ Stab bracket and it flies great. For each 60 pounds of increased weight, I am moving the LE down one hole and so far it is working out. Has anyone else experimented with the HZ stab incidence when flying different weights in the passenger seat? Thanks Jim Ballenger Selling a FS KXP 447 Flying a MK III X 582 Virginia Beach, VA IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Kulp" <undoctor(at)rcn.com>
Subject:
Date: Sep 08, 2005
I recently posted a question about correctly mounting the engine of an Ultrastar. I received numerous responses including photos and pages of the instruction manual. What I have determined without close up shots but gleaning the construction manual is that the shock mounts are located where the mounting system (i.e., modified "A" frame, et al) is connected to the cage, and that the engine is simply bolted solidly under the "A" frame using 7/16 X 2 inch hardened bolts and lock washers. I would appreciate feedback from Ultrastar owners, builders, previous owners with a good memory so I don't end up dropping my Cayuna into someone's bar-be-que. I would also use Loctite unless there's some reason I'm told I shouldn't. I'm always eager to listen to true experts; once I was doing some wiring on my Ultrastar at the strip where I flew out of and a visitor who had flown in observed me ready to solder joints. He was an engineer and informed me that soldering was not the best way to go, since a solder joint could crack with the vibration, but a properly crimped joint was very reliable. I immediately altered my procedure and thanked him for his concern. So,now I need guidance with mounting my engine. Thanks! Dave Kulp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 08, 2005
Subject: Re: MK III X FLYING CHARACTERISTICS WITH A PASSENGER
In a message dated 9/8/2005 4:34:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, ulpilot(at)cavtel.net writes: Richard Interesting solution to the trim issue. Thanks for the information on what to expect with the additional weight. I am sure the sand bags do not totally simulate the spread of the weight of the human body. I have all the weight in the seat and not taking in account of the human legs and the position they occupy in the plane. In most cases, the center of gravity of person is his belly button [not mine, though]. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Geo engine
Date: Sep 08, 2005
Hey Rusty, The SPG-2 weighs in under 30 lbs. Forgot the exact number, but I can weigh it if you want. As to when I will finish, how am I to know? I thought it would be about 4 years ago! Life has its detours. Now that I am about 80% recovered from that Lymme's disease, I will be chipping away at it with regularity. My neighbor just did his maiden flight of his RV-7 & has a smile pasted to his face. There ought to be a law against having so much fun when your neighbor is down. -Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rusty Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Geo engine Hi Richard, How heavy is that SPG-2 drive? At the moment, there really isn't a good PSRU for a single rotor Mazda, so I'll be using one made for a two rotor, and it weighs about 44 lbs. There is a guy who converted a Hirth G-40, which probably totals about 25-30 lbs complete, but it's only good to 120 HP I think. That's plenty for the SS of course, but a single rotor with turbo would be capable of about 180 hp, which is what the SPG-2 is rated for. BTW, just when the heck do you plan to finish that thing :-) Cheers, Rusty -------------------------- Rick, Check out the SPG-2, it is very robust & affordable. See it at http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml It is being used with VW's but not shown on that site, Vassli the importer would be happy to talk with you. Richard Swiderski ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2005
Subject: Pilot who Crashed
Does anyone know the status of the recovery of the pilot who crashed in the video? John Murr Firestar Does anyone know the status of the recovery of the pilot who crashed in the video? John Murr Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 09, 2005
Subject: internal dimension
From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
I'm thinking about a trailer for a Mk III Classic, but I don't have access to the bird, yet, so.... Can someone tell me what the interior dimensions of a trailer would need to be to haul a Mk IIIC safely? Thanks! -- Robert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174(at)msn.com>
Subject: Wanted Wheel Fairing
Date: Sep 09, 2005
Hi Kolber's, Brand new to the list. I just purchased a Firestar of the 90's vintage with a new Rotax 447. This is an excellent flying machine for the type flying that I and my club members do on weekends. With the sale came one wheel fairing not installed and the previous owner cannot find it. Would anyone on the Kolb list have a new, used or repairable one that they would like to sell? I have tried to contact TNK Co but unable to contact either by phone or Email. This is a great group and as a newbe I read it all thank you. Cheers Regards, Roger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 09, 2005
Subject: Re: Wanted Wheel Fairing
I have a 1989 Firestar with tundra tires, so my wheel pants are sitting in the garage. I'd like to sell them both as a pair. jdmurr(at)juno.com Firestar -- "Roger Roy" wrote: Hi Kolber's, Brand new to the list. I just purchased a Firestar of the 90's vintage with a new Rotax 447. This is an excellent flying machine for the type flying that I and my club members do on weekends. With the sale came one wheel fairing not installed and the previous owner cannot find it. Would anyone on the Kolb list have a new, used or repairable one that they would like to sell? I have tried to contact TNK Co but unable to contact either by phone or Email. This is a great group and as a newbe I read it all thank you. Cheers Regards, Roger I have a 1989 Firestar withtundra tires, so my wheel pants are sitting in the garage. I'd like to sell them both as a pair. jdmurr(at)juno.com Firestar --"RogerRoy"Savannah174(at)msn.comwrote: --Kolb-Listmessagepostedby:"RogerRoy"Savannah174(at)msn.com HiKolber's, Brandnewtothelist.IjustpurchasedaFirestarofthe90'svintagewithanewRotax447.ThisisanexcellentflyingmachineforthetypeflyingthatIandmyclubmembersdoonweekends.Withthesalecameonewheelfairingnotinstalledandthepreviousownercannotfindit.WouldanyoneontheKolblisthaveanew,usedorrepairableonethattheywouldliketosell?I havetriedtocontactTNKCobutunabletocontacteitherbyphoneorEmail.ThisisagreatgroupandasanewbeIreaditallthankyou.Cheers Regards, Roger ; ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kolbdriver" <Kolbdriver(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: internal dimension
Date: Sep 09, 2005
Mine is 24' X 8' X 6-1/2' high at the back door. The height is very close if you use a three blade prop. Steven Green ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Laird" <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> Subject: Kolb-List: internal dimension > > > I'm thinking about a trailer for a Mk III Classic, but I don't have access to the bird, yet, so.... Can someone tell me what the interior dimensions of a trailer would need to be to haul a Mk IIIC safely? > > Thanks! > > -- Robert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Engine problems
Date: Sep 11, 2005
2.33 DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 Date: is 12 to 24 hours after Received: date Kolbers, I am having a problem with my Rotax 532 that a number of rotax repair shops have not been able to solve for me. The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it dies; if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. I sent the engine to steve at Airscrew who rebuilt the gear box and installed CDI to replace the points. When I got it back there was no change. If I start and stop it often enough, sometimes it will work ok and even can go to full power. It seems to do this best when hot rather than cold. I thought I had the problem solved today and it started many times and let me run it up but then when it cooled down it acted up again. I think it is gas related, probably with the carbs. I replaced the fuel pump and even tried an electric pump - no change. Cleaned the carbs - no change. When it is running rough at 1000 rpm and I use the enricher circuit, it dies. This leads me to believe that maybe it is getting flooded. But how? Please help!!!! I'm sure with the collective wisdom of the list, someone out there has the answer for me! Jim Masrk III ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mhqqqqq(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 10, 2005
Subject: Re: Engine problems
I When it is running rough at 1000 rpm and I use the enricher circuit, it > dies. This leads me to believe that maybe it is getting flooded. But how? > > Please help!!!! too much fuel. check the floats in the carbs. they may be letting too much gas into the bowl. mark twinstar s.e.minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter
Date: Sep 10, 2005
| The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it dies; if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. | Jim | Masrk III Jim/Gang: Sounds like a "Hardy Disc", the little rubber spider that connects the engine to the prop shaft/gear box. I had the same problem in 1992, first time I tried to start and run my brand new 582 mounted on my present MKIII. I tried everything I could think of, but to no avail. Still had the same problem you describe. Back then, Eric Tucker, Rotax "daddy" was working with Kodiak in the Bahamas. He knew what the problem was. Overnighted me a new correct density "Hardy Disc". Took out the "too soft rubber Hardy Disc", replaced it with the harder one, cranked the 582 and it ran like a sewing machine. What was happening during start up was causing gear chatter that in turn shook hell out of the carb float bowls aerating the fuel, further aggrevating the start up situation. We were experiencing similar symptoms on the early 912ULS. Violent start up caused the float bowls to dance and aerate the fuel, further aggrevating the gear chatter which it could not get past. NOTE: Added a little to the subject line and realized we don't know if you are running a B, C, or what kind of gear box. The C gear box is the one with the hardy disc. B gear box uses spring loaded dogs. I probably did not help your situation. Sorry. john h MKIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter
Date: Sep 11, 2005
John, I have a B gear box. Does your reply still apply? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter > > | The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs > about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it dies; > if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. > | Jim > | Masrk III > > Jim/Gang: > > Sounds like a "Hardy Disc", the little rubber spider that connects the > engine to the prop shaft/gear box. > > I had the same problem in 1992, first time I tried to start and run my > brand new 582 mounted on my present MKIII. I tried everything I could > think of, but to no avail. Still had the same problem you describe. > > Back then, Eric Tucker, Rotax "daddy" was working with Kodiak in the > Bahamas. He knew what the problem was. Overnighted me a new correct > density "Hardy Disc". Took out the "too soft rubber Hardy Disc", > replaced it with the harder one, cranked the 582 and it ran like a > sewing machine. > > What was happening during start up was causing gear chatter that in > turn shook hell out of the carb float bowls aerating the fuel, further > aggrevating the start up situation. > > We were experiencing similar symptoms on the early 912ULS. Violent > start up caused the float bowls to dance and aerate the fuel, further > aggrevating the gear chatter which it could not get past. > > NOTE: Added a little to the subject line and realized we don't know > if you are running a B, C, or what kind of gear box. The C gear box > is the one with the hardy disc. B gear box uses spring loaded dogs. > > I probably did not help your situation. Sorry. > > john h > MKIII > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter
Date: Sep 10, 2005
| I have a B gear box. Does your reply still apply? | | Jim Jim/All: B Gear Box doesn't have a hardy disc. Can not say from experience if the clutch dog springs loosen up in the B Box if it could cause the same symptoms. What ever is causing it, sounds like it is shaking engine which in turn is shaking the carbs and float bowls, which aerate fuel to further cause the problem. Other than that, I am at a loss. john h MKIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter
Date: Sep 11, 2005
John, I'm at a loss too. That's why I am looking for any and all ideas. BTW, the gear box was just rebuilt - had the same problem before and after the rebuild. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter > > | I have a B gear box. Does your reply still apply? > | > | Jim > > Jim/All: > > B Gear Box doesn't have a hardy disc. > > Can not say from experience if the clutch dog springs loosen up in the > B Box if it could cause the same symptoms. > > What ever is causing it, sounds like it is shaking engine which in > turn is shaking the carbs and float bowls, which aerate fuel to > further cause the problem. > > Other than that, I am at a loss. > > john h > MKIII > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Engine problems
Date: Sep 10, 2005
Hi Jim, I swore off carbs years ago, but I'll take a stab at this. You say you cleaned the carbs, but have you recently checked the fuel level in the bowl? IIRC, the Bing procedure was to run the engine, then remove the bowl and measure the depth of the fuel. It would be really good if you could do this when the engine is running badly. Try to advance the throttle, let it quit, then check the level. Maybe you have a sticking needle, sunken float, etc. Do you have any other indications of flooding, such as black smoke from the exhaust, or black sooty exhaust pipes? Good luck, Rusty (fuel injection is your friend) 13B Mazda powered RV-3 (sold) Single rotor Mazda powered Slingshot project (removing banana shaped gear legs, replacing with straight ones) ------------------------------- I think it is gas related, probably with the carbs. I replaced the fuel pump and even tried an electric pump - no change. Cleaned the carbs - no change. When it is running rough at 1000 rpm and I use the enricher circuit, it dies. This leads me to believe that maybe it is getting flooded. But how? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2005
Subject: ExperCraft build log
From: "Robert Riggen" <rob(at)riggen.org>
Fellow builders, This is an invite to those who need a method for creating a project log and Web site. Even if you've already started your log using another system this one is worth a look. ExperCraft Simple Log is free for builders and is a great way to create a comprehensive log and Web site. It's very easy to use. http://www.expercraft.com Enjoy! Rob -- Rob Riggen building a Vans RV7 http://websites.expercraft.com/rriggen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 10, 2005
From: curtis groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: BRS chute installation
I'm about to start covering my Firestar ll and ultimately plan on a BRS chute. As nearly as I can determine, the activation handle is attached to the top longitudinal metal piece at the side of the cage with a 5/8" clamp. Is this something that can wait until after I get it covered or should I be considering that now? Thanks. Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2005
From: Ted Cowan <trc1917(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Oil clean up
Just wanted to let you know my special cleaning solution for oily exhaust and dirt on fabric. I use this formula on gas RC planes and ultralights. I use a spray bottle of windex regular and put about 20 % "Goo Gone" in it. It does not stay mixed but if you shake it before use it will work okay. Goo Gone is an oil based spot remover that your wife (girl friend/friends) Mother would love if they dont already use it. Found in Wal-Marts, grocery stores, etc. Leaves a really nice shinny fabric when used. Try it, you will like it. Really works great to get that exhaust/spark plug oil off our white T shirt. Ted Cowan, Alabama. Has anyone heard from John Cooley, Lucedale, Ms? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Engine problems
Date: Sep 11, 2005
. A friend had the similar situation with his 582. He tried everything to get it to run but no luck. Ran rough and could not get it over 1000RPM. On occasion he coulld nurse the throttle and once in awhile it would get on step and run as it should He finally called Buzzman an Ultralight repair guy in Toronto to help him out. He told my friend to replace the springwashers in the gearbox. My friend was out of options so he did it. PRESTO!!!! His engine runs fine now. Just something to think about. \> The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it dies; if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Engine problems/532 Gear Chatter
Date: Sep 11, 2005
> BTW, the gear box was just rebuilt - had the same problem before and after > the rebuild. > > Jim Probably used the old washers as they still looked good. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Engine problem - follow up
Date: Sep 12, 2005
0.07 DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06 Date: is 3 to 6 hours after Received: date Kolbers, Thanks for all the imput. One thing I forgot to mention was that with the prop off, the engine runs fine. As soon as I load it up with a prop the troubles begin - but not all the time. The fuel level in the carbs is correct. The main jets are tight. The screens are on the main jets. The clip on the jet needle is correct. The gear box was just rebuilt (problem occurred before this and there was no improvement). Any other ideas? Jim "I am having a problem with my Rotax 532 that a number of rotax repair shops have not been able to solve for me. The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it dies; if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. I sent the engine to steve at Airscrew who rebuilt the gear box and installed CDI to replace the points. When I got it back there was no change. If I start and stop it often enough, sometimes it will work ok and even can go to full power. It seems to do this best when hot rather than cold. I thought I had the problem solved today and it started many times and let me run it up but then when it cooled down it acted up again. I think it is gas related, probably with the carbs. I replaced the fuel pump and even tried an electric pump - no change. Cleaned the carbs - no change. When it is running rough at 1000 rpm and I use the enricher circuit, it dies. This leads me to believe that maybe it is getting flooded. But how? Please help!!!! I'm sure with the collective wisdom of the list, someone out there has the answer for me! Jim Masrk III" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Engine problems
Date: Sep 11, 2005
Try reducing the prop pitch. The 532 has a very steep powerband curve and too much pitch will keep the engine from getting up on to the tuned frequency of the exaust system. On Sep 11, 2005, at 4:11 AM, flykolb wrote: > > Kolbers, > > I am having a problem with my Rotax 532 that a number of rotax > repair shops have not been able to solve for me. > > The problem is this: when I start the engine, it usually only runs > about 1000 RPM, not even at idle. If I advance the throtle, it > dies; if I retard the throtle, it keeps running but very, very rough. > > I sent the engine to steve at Airscrew who rebuilt the gear box and > installed CDI to replace the points. When I got it back there was > no change. > > If I start and stop it often enough, sometimes it will work ok and > even can go to full power. It seems to do this best when hot rather > than cold. > > I thought I had the problem solved today and it started many times > and let me run it up but then when it cooled down it acted up again. > > I think it is gas related, probably with the carbs. I replaced the > fuel pump and even tried an electric pump - no change. > > Cleaned the carbs - no change. > > When it is running rough at 1000 rpm and I use the enricher > circuit, it dies. This leads me to believe that maybe it is getting > flooded. But how? > > Please help!!!! > > I'm sure with the collective wisdom of the list, someone out there > has the answer for me! > > Jim > Masrk III > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Engine problem - follow up
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Hi Jim, A couple folks have indicated that the dampener in the gear box can cause this, and your test without the prop may just prove it. I also agree that a gear box rebuilder might not necessarily be able to tell if this is bad on inspection. When you try to accelerate, is the engine very rough, and do you hear a loud rattly sound? If so, I'd try to borrow another gear box, or have the dampener spring assembly replaced. If it isn't rough and noisy, then it's still a mystery. Good luck, Rusty (not a Rotax guy) ----------------------- One thing I forgot to mention was that with the prop off, the engine runs fine. As soon as I load it up with a prop the troubles begin - but not all the time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
Subject: Attaching a BRS Parachute to a MKIII Airframe.
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Hello list, I am in the process of installing a BRS in my MKIIIC. I would like some input on where others have attached the harness to the airframe. The only drawing I got from BRS is for a firestar and it has the bridal attached to the round tube back by the 2 small diagonal braces. This puts it almost under the engine on my MKIIIC. Where I would like to attach it is to the round tube where it attaches to the square main spar attach tube and actually put it around both tubes to keep it from sliding back. In the BRS manual it says put it above the lateral CG (which it is) and behind the vertical CG (which I am not sure it is). Please let me know where you all have attached yours. Jason MKIIIC BMW R100 Very close to inspection ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Attaching a BRS Parachute to a MKIII Airframe.
Date: Sep 12, 2005
| I am in the process of installing a BRS in my MKIIIC. I | | Jason Hi Jason/All: I mounted my BRS 1050 in the forward section of the center section. Deployment handle is mounted right over my forehead in the bottom of the center section. The kevlar attachment bridals (2 ea) are attached to the gear leg sockets, oen each socket, then attached to the single kevlar bridal with the large steel carribiner (sp). john h MKIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: Attaching a BRS Parachute to a MKIII Airframe.
Date: Sep 12, 2005
I have a factory drawing (someplace) for a MK III X that I got at Oshkosh Call them for a PDF file http://brsparachutes.com/models.html Ken I will look for my drawing later if you still need it. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Omelchuck [mailto:jason@trek-tech.com] Subject: Kolb-List: Attaching a BRS Parachute to a MKIII Airframe. Hello list, I am in the process of installing a BRS in my MKIIIC. I would like some input on where others have attached the harness to the airframe. The only drawing I got from BRS is for a firestar and it has the bridal attached to the round tube back by the 2 small diagonal braces. This puts it almost under the engine on my MKIIIC. Where I would like to attach it is to the round tube where it attaches to the square main spar attach tube and actually put it around both tubes to keep it from sliding back. In the BRS manual it says put it above the lateral CG (which it is) and behind the vertical CG (which I am not sure it is). Please let me know where you all have attached yours. Jason MKIIIC BMW R100 Very close to inspection IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2005
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Attaching a BRS Parachute to a MKIII Airframe.
On the MKIII, I have it secured to the square main spar carrythrough at the top of the cabin, however that is just to keep it still, it actually attaches for weight bearing purposes to the landing gear/main tube structure cluster joint. Bear in mind that I am using a Second Chantz - out of production softpack chute, not a BRS, so you may not be able to - or wish to duplicate what I have done. On the FSII we just finished, the attach point is the junction of the main spar carrythrough and the engine mount tube. Which puts it right at all CG's. Richard Pike > >Hello list, > >I am in the process of installing a BRS in my MKIIIC. I would like some >input on where others have attached the harness to the airframe. The only >drawing I got from BRS is for a firestar and it has the bridal attached to >the round tube back by the 2 small diagonal braces. This puts it almost >under the engine on my MKIIIC. Where I would like to attach it is to the >round tube where it attaches to the square main spar attach tube and >actually put it around both tubes to keep it from sliding back. In the BRS >manual it says put it above the lateral CG (which it is) and behind the >vertical CG (which I am not sure it is). Please let me know where you all >have attached yours. > >Jason >MKIIIC >BMW R100 >Very close to inspection > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Prop Size
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Hey Guys, I'm getting a Warp Drive prop to replace my IVO. The IVO is a 64" prop but the Warp people tell me that Kolb MK III's with 582's can handle a 66" prop. I measured and the distance from the hub center to the tube and it is 33 5/8" which means a 66" prop would only give me 5/8" clearance. Kinda close to my way of thinking. What're you MKIII Classic guys using? AzDave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Tripp" <jtripp(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: BRS chute installation
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Curtis, I attached my BRS handle after covering and finishing. I attached it in an easy to reach and see location just in front of the throttle lever. BRS had to send me a longer cable to reach that far but it works well for me. I can send you some pictures direct if you want them. James Tripp, FS II Millbrook AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtis groote Subject: Kolb-List: BRS chute installation I'm about to start covering my Firestar ll and ultimately plan on a BRS chute. As nearly as I can determine, the activation handle is attached to the top longitudinal metal piece at the side of the cage with a 5/8" clamp. Is this something that can wait until after I get it covered or should I be considering that now? Thanks. Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: I've got GREAT NEWS
At 06:07 PM 9/12/2005, you wrote: > >The oil leak is a necessary feature. He doesn't have a GPS, so he plans to >follow the oil trail back to the airport :-) This actually works=85.. I know from our last flight to Sun&Fun, while bringing a batch (a "batch" I think that=92s right). Of new Possums, We like to call them "yearlings" since they've been flying about a year and ain't dead yet. You don't really want to fly to close behind one, as they tend to have miscellaneous parts fall off their planes all the way to Florida, - mostly small stuff, like doors and muffler springs - things like that - nothing that you really need. They're still learning what "safety wire" is all about. We left a trail we could follow back to Georgia. Works as good as an oil leak, I suppose. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Harrison" <kenharrison(at)ubgcharlotte.com>
Subject: New Kolber in Lancaster, SC
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Hello all, My name is Ken Harrison. I live in Lancaster, SC. Ive been lurking for a couple months I just bought a Kolb Firestar II from Bruce Harrison, my brother, in Columbia SC. I am planning on licensing it as a E-LSA so I can take my kids with me, but I have a few questions that I cant seem to get answered looking in the EAA literature and on the web. I was hoping someone on the list could help me 1. I have a Private Pilots license but do not have a taildragger endorsement. If I register the FSII, will I need to get an endorsement? If I do, is there any way I can do it in my Firestar? I already have about 50 hours in it. Has anyone else been through this scenario? There isnt any taildragger available for rental anywhere near me. 2. Does anyone on the list have his FSII set up as a two seater? If so, do you have any difficulty flying at full gross? Im a little nervous about the extra weight on the 5 spar. Thanks for all the information so far. I installed the vortex generators as suggested by some of the listers and dropped my stall speed by 6 mph. Fantastic! I was very pleased because Im really most interested in the low, slow, short grass strip type of flying. So far the FSII has not disappointed. Thanks for any help, Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2005
From: JUDD LYNN <juddlynn(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Quality of the older Rotax 582
I've recently purchased a Mk III with an older 582 (not bluehead). The seller claims it hasn't been run in 5 years but ran great at that time. Rebuilding it will cost nearly $3k. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about the service record of this engine. Was the bluehead a big improvement? Should I scrap it and go to a bluehead or even a 912? Thanks. Judd Lynn Los Angeles, CA Firestar Mk III ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Quality of the older Rotax 582
Date: Sep 12, 2005
| Should I scrap it and | go to a bluehead or even a 912? Thanks. | | Judd Lynn | Los Angeles, CA | Firestar | Mk III Hi Judd/Gang: Good to hear from you. Sell the 582 and buy a 912. You saw them fly out of Monument Valley, and nearly 6,000 feet ASL. The reliability, economy (912 burns 4 gph at 5,000 cruise)(582 burns 5 to 5.5 gph at 5,800 rpm cruise). 912 also gets 200 hours on a set of plugs and uses 3 qts of oil every 100 hours plus a $3.00 oil filter. But.............reliability is the name of the game for me. I fly for fun, but gravity doesn't differentiate between fun flying and flying for a living, and the ground is just as hard. john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Engine problem - follow up
Date: Sep 12, 2005
> One thing I forgot to mention was that with the prop off, the engine runs fine. As soon as I load it up with a prop the troubles begin - but not all the time. I think you have just proven the trouble is in the gear box. Try the new damper springs in the gear box and if it isn't the problem I will give you some Canadian beer and a cuban cigar at the Kolb homecoming. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In
Date: Sep 12, 2005
Well, I finally assembled my engine & weighed it & mounted it on the Kolb SlingShot. It came in at 169 lbs, with an 8 lb flywheel & 30lb SPG-2 redrive, distributorless ignition, port injected, intercooled & turbocharged. It has 107 lbs of torque & puts out 100hp @ 8.6 lb boost. I posted pics in the file section of FlyGeo_uncensored(at)yahoogroups.com along with the post below. .Richard Swiderski More details of this engine can be seen at http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/ The target weight has been 175 lbs & I just weighed it with intercooler not shown, wire harness not included & radiator with hoses not yet included. It came in at 169 pounds, so I will be very close. Weight items of note: 1) OEM intake manifold, tuned intake chamber & 1/3 of throttle body was discarded (14.3 lbs) & replaced with 2.2 lb modified intake & thermostat housing from nonturbo G10 for weight saving of 8.7 lbs. 2) Lighter starter saved 2.7 lbs. 3) Discarded OEM alternator (7.1lbs all ready a few pounds lighter than some G10 alternators) for a 4.1 lb John Deere 20A Dynamo for a weight saving of 2.4lb 4) Discarded distributor (2.8lb); air mass sensor (2.5lb); OEM ignition coil (1.8lb); single groove crank pulley (2.6lb); & replaced with a Tracy Crook distributorless ignition system using 25% smaller aluminum crank pulley with 6" trigger wheel 3 corvette ignition coils (2.3lb) for a net gain of 4.7lb. 5) Discarded OEM oil pan for one that allows engine to sit 4" lower on bed mount & hang 4" behind Kolb engine mount, for a net gain of 1.4lb. This was done when I was using a Raven redrive. Now however, I am using the SPG-2 & it hangs out 4-5" further back than the Raven. This may not be acceptable as it might move the cg too far back. A cg weight analysis with engine now mounted will soon tell. Worst case scenario is I'll need to make another oil pan. 6) I added a .67lb crank scraper. 7) I discarded the OEM cast iron exhaust manifold (lost the weight numbers on it) & replaced it with a stainless steel manifold (3.6lb)that moved the turbo from the right center/rear to in front of engine. This is lighter & moved cg of engine forward. I also lightened the turbo exhaust housing a forgotten amount. 8) I discarded the SPG-2 flexplate (2.9lb) & used an 8lb flywheel. 9) The SPG-2 weighs 30lbs. (not including flexplate or flywheel) 10) The 3/8" aluminum engine mounts (about 4.5 lbs)used to adapt engine to Kolb flatbed is included in this weight as well. Total weight savings from an OEM Suzuki turbo G10 is at least 16.43lb plus a couple pounds on exhaust system. I do believe this is the lightest G10 turbo to date. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: A message from John Cleese
At 10:12 PM 9/12/2005, you wrote: >Sigh.... >----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fw: A message from John Cleese >> > A Message from John Cleese I'm gonna save that one to read when I'm not intoxicated. -However------- For your entertainment. .... we had a fine time flyin into McCollum Airport and Car Show Saturday (Kennesaw). They have a "Tower" and we were flying everything from a "Breezy to a Gryo". 3rd busiest airport in Georgia. Our President is a girl - sorta like "Wendy" in Peter Pan. She can get away with anything. I'm sure we looked like a swarm of mosquitoes flying in amoust the jets. Hell, we had a low level flyby and then a right hand pattern to land. Haaa......... we just barely had it under control coming straight in. Can you imagine what happened when the tower told us to do a low pass and a "Right Hand Pattern" to land! 18 Ultralights 500 feet apart and we were not allowed to talk to the tower/Air Boss- just listen and not allowed to talk to each other off channel. Only "Wendy" was allowed to talk, and she thought it was great. We had "Titans" landing long over the top of "Phantoms" that landed short because of the Gryos, ........"Chinese FireDrill" I love it!!! They think it was great. Hello GSFA Members, I thought that it would be good to share this with you. Thanks for a GREAT time flying to McCollum we did good, they loved it. I bet we get invited again one day. Read below what the Air Boss had to say about ;us. GSFA / Pres. Kim Arrowood -----Original Message----- From: Chris Ulrich [mailto:ulrich6(at)bellsouth.net] Subject: Re: McCollum Aircraft and Car Show Kim: What can I say............you were all great! Thank you for coming, I'll never forget the view to the west of the runway with 18 ultralights inbound for landing.........that was classic! Hell, what can I say/. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Size
Date: Sep 13, 2005
68 inch diameter Powerfin on a 690L-70 engine that is raised up about an inch and 5/8 above the stock position via custom made engine mount. Over an inch of boom clearance. Denny Rowe, Mk-3 , PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Eve Pelletier" <pelletier(at)cableone.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Prop Size > > > Hey Guys, > > I'm getting a Warp Drive prop to replace my IVO. The IVO is a 64" prop > but the Warp people tell me that Kolb MK III's with 582's can handle a 66" > prop. I measured and the distance from the hub center to the tube and it > is 33 5/8" which means a 66" prop would only give me 5/8" clearance. > Kinda close to my way of thinking. What're you MKIII Classic guys using? > > AzDave > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2005
From: Mark Anliker <manliker(at)uiuc.edu>
Subject: Prop size
AzDave, I raised my Rotax 447 about 3/4 inch with spacers and longer engine mounting bolts to use a 66x30 Tennessee prop on my FireFly. I have plenty of clearance...w/o looking, I'd guess at least an inch. Spacers were made from aluminum rod, about 1 inch diameter, and "faced" and center drilled on a lathe. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Liability insurance for alternate engines?
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Greetings, For those of you with non-Rotax engines, who's the best source for insurance at the moment? I will need some minimal liability to keep the hanger police happy, as well as for peace of mind when I start flying the SS. I could easily go with a builders policy now, and convert it to a flying policy in the Spring when I'm ready to fly. I could even go with the flying policy now, which would motivate me ($$$) to get the plane flying ASAP. Thanks, Rusty (RV-3 flying away Sat) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N27SB(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Subject: Re: Hanger Update
Get an airdrive socket drive. The small butterfly drives are best because of their high speed. That lets you tighten the nuts without holding the on the outside. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2005
From: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hanger Update
Steve, Thanks for the pic, and advice. Your hangar looks just like what mine will be, your front wall is what i have for the back wall... the building was sold to me with no front wall, so i will have to build something up, or order an additional wall from Steelmasters. Great suggestion about the butterfly socket, i will look into that. When we built my brother-in-laws building, there were 4 of us, and we worked in pairs using wrenches and air impact guns. One inside one outside to turn the bolts. I dont remember how many bolts, but know i have 2 5-gallon pails full of them for my building! I will likely be doing most of my building myself (as you did), the help is just not available and i hate to wait for another year to pass. I keep my Firestar in an enclosed trailer, so have contemplated leaving it in the trailer, and parking the trailer in the building once up. Then i could use a conventional roll up door. Having the wider hanger doors would be great, but would have to span almost the entire width of the building. You mentioned looking at Bryan's shop doors for ideas, if i can get up to KY for the Kolb Homecoming. Would that be Bryan Melborne? He actually built my plane for the previous owner. I bought it when the poor fellow became sick, and passed away before he ever got to fly it. It was a real mix of excitement, this bird was such a beauty, and of saddness... his widow though full of life, cried as i pulled the trailer away, i could see her realization of her husbands unfulfilled dreams. I like your front concrete pad. You mentioned not to skimp there, and i agree. My choice for the building was when my brother-in-law built his 30 x 40, and he did just like you did, and poured a large front pad. Its value has far surpassed its cost. He uses it for everything, often as much as the shop floor itself. So i plan to do the same. Thanks for all the great advice on the hanger. My next biggest step will be finding someone fairly local for flight instruction. Dont know if there is just a dry spot here in middle Tennessee for light aircraft, or if the fellows just dont visit the internet much! All the same, i will find someone. Where there is a will, there is a way. I hope to be at the Kolb Homecoming in two weeks, hope to tow my Firestar there, TNK offered to look it over (its been in storage for 2 years). If you can make it there i would look forward to meeting you! Mike Schnabel N27SB(at)aol.com wrote: Get an airdrive socket drive. The small butterfly drives are best because of their high speed. That lets you tighten the nuts without holding the on the outside. --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: It's Christmas time
Date: Sep 13, 2005
I'm like a kid in the candy store!! Kit Two came today and I very glad I had it delivered to work ;A. to save shipping and B. Dam that box was big just like the grin on my face :-) How the fun part getting it home and hanging some wings Ken Kit Two 00071 serial number IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Quality of the older Rotax 582
From: Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com
Date: Sep 13, 2005
09/13/2005 02:18:04 PM Im with John H. 100% on this. If you can afford the 912, go with it. Very reliable. Erich Weaver Santa Barbara CA This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. If you receive this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should not retain, distribute, disclose or use any of this information and you should destroy the e-mail and any attachments or copies. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Richter" <susan203(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: 1990 kolb mk2
Date: Sep 13, 2005
does anyone have any info on a 1990 mk2 with a 503 I just bought one but haven't picked it up yet it will replace my original firestar,I was just looking for some specs like weight how big of an engine it will handle, how it will compare in flight to my firestar w/447,If there was any problems with this design. any help would be appreciated. Thanks Ken Richter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In
Richard Swiderski wrote: > >Well, I finally assembled my engine & weighed it & mounted it on the Kolb >SlingShot. It came in at 169 lbs, with an 8 lb flywheel & 30lb SPG-2 >redrive, distributorless ignition, port injected, intercooled & >turbocharged. It has 107 lbs of torque & puts out 100hp @ 8.6 lb boost. I >posted pics in the file section of FlyGeo_uncensored(at)yahoogroups.com along >with the post below. .Richard Swiderski > > >More details of this engine can be seen at >http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/ > >>snipped I'm impressed! I knew a guy several years ago that was flying a n/a version with Raven drive on a trike, using it as a hang glider tug & he loved it, so I'm interested in the engine. Your mods really look nice & the low installed weight is impressive. I have a question/comment. Did I read correctly that you have a piece of hose between your new oil pickup & the pump? If so, that might be worth a 2nd look. There is at least one case (on a rotary engine plane) of a hose collapsing & cutting off the oil supply when used on the suction side of the oil pump. If I misread that, then never mind.... :-) When do engines with your mods go on sale? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Interesting to hear you say this Don. I'm working on my second SS, but the FF has always appealed to me. I almost bought a FF a couple times, but kept wishing for a slightly bigger engine, or a stronger airframe, so I didn't do it. After seeing Kip's very cool FS (no covering on cage), and since I've always wanted an open plane, I decided that I was going to make the SS open. Just yesterday, I removed all the "extra" bits of cage, to trim it down to an open version. Since it's kinda like a macho FF, I'm thinking of calling it SuperFly :-) As for your speed questions, I can tell you that a 503 will go about 80 mph flat out. I believe the 582 will do 90-95. The 912S would top 100 easily, but if there's any turbulence, it won't be a very good ride. I know that the 582 was Dennis' favorite engine for hot dogging (not that he ever did any of that ), though a 912 of either flavor would be better for reliable cross country work. Cheers, Rusty (still fixing stuff so I can have fun with the new engine) ---------------- It seems that a Slingshot is kind of a grown up firefly to me....and as well as I like the Fly...I might enjoy a 1 and a half seater even better... Don Gherardini ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Hey Charlie, I thought the rotary guy just had a looooooong hose that tended to lose it's prime, and take minutes to establish pressure. The 912 has the oil cooler on the suction side of the pump, so there are plenty of hoses. After bursting an oil cooler, this was a feature that I really liked. I liked it so much in fact, that I copied it on my single rotor engine. I'm using an oil/water heat exchanger though. I also agree that Richard has done a great job on his engine, and told him so in an off list message this morning. I also told him that I promised Travis that we'd both be at next years homecoming. He hasn't thanked me for that, but I'm sure he will :-) He's so far ahead of me right now, but I wonder who will fly first (he says in a motivational way) :-) Cheers, Rusty (RV-3 going to new owner Saturday) Single rotor Mazda powered SS, N654WL (reserved) ------------------ I have a question/comment. Did I read correctly that you have a piece of hose between your new oil pickup & the pump? If so, that might be worth a 2nd look. There is at least one case (on a rotary engine plane) of a hose collapsing & cutting off the oil supply when used on the suction side of the oil pump. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Thanks for the reply Rusty... when ya get a chance...put a tape to the inside of that Slingshot and tell me how wide it is between the longerons about the elbow. They also look pretty high ..are they pretty hard to mount? The things I want the fly to do more of really are not speed, but just a tad more room and weight carrying ability for some stuff....and to be a little more comfortable with the weight of 10 gallons of fuel., maybe 15. When I load up with fuel and me and not much else, Me and the fly are about 520 lbs. it still climbs good here but the handleing gets a little "piggy". Kinda like a Challenger...(oops) And when I have to land this heavy It doesnt like it much...so I usually dont fill'er'up unless I am going somewhere. What I am thinking about is a S'shot with a HKS 700 that I have found real reasonable. I know not quite the power of a 582 maybe...but I bet I could go along way on 10 gallons with that 4 stroke. Right now I cruise at 70 mph or just a tad faster. at 56 to 5800. Burn 4 gal /hr. Flat out it will do 85 to 88 generally but sucks fuel bigtime. Still, I just dont want to give up the great flight characteristics, and weight will do that to the fly. I have an Idea an HKS powered S'Shot might cruise at 75 or so, with a good load of fuel and stuff and could cafrry me a good way from the barn. Hauck said once that the Fly reminded him of the sling shot somewhat, the way they flew.....and I have wondered about them ever since. Course, ya never know about the old boys memory......(wink!) And Ski...That turbo Slingshot of yours sounds like it is finally comeing around to be a real dandy...cant wait to see it some time... Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Swiderski" <rswiderski(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Charlie, yes it has a hose, but it is designed for suction. No one could afford to pay for this engine! Too time intensive to sell for profit. -Richard -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Suzuki Turbo G10 Weigh-In Richard Swiderski wrote: > >Well, I finally assembled my engine & weighed it & mounted it on the Kolb >SlingShot. It came in at 169 lbs, with an 8 lb flywheel & 30lb SPG-2 >redrive, distributorless ignition, port injected, intercooled & >turbocharged. It has 107 lbs of torque & puts out 100hp @ 8.6 lb boost. I >posted pics in the file section of FlyGeo_uncensored(at)yahoogroups.com along >with the post below. .Richard Swiderski > > >More details of this engine can be seen at >http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/ > >>snipped I'm impressed! I knew a guy several years ago that was flying a n/a version with Raven drive on a trike, using it as a hang glider tug & he loved it, so I'm interested in the engine. Your mods really look nice & the low installed weight is impressive. I have a question/comment. Did I read correctly that you have a piece of hose between your new oil pickup & the pump? If so, that might be worth a 2nd look. There is at least one case (on a rotary engine plane) of a hose collapsing & cutting off the oil supply when used on the suction side of the oil pump. If I misread that, then never mind.... :-) When do engines with your mods go on sale? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 13, 2005
Hi Don, The main longerons are 24" wide, but those are they're a bit below elbow level. The cage gets wider as you go up, but only to maybe 26" just below shoulder level. That part of my cage is gone now, so it's a little hard to measure :-) I really like the HKS, and can't imagine why there aren't more of them on Kolbs. Dennis did a review on the company SS years ago, and concluded that it was closer to the 503 than the 582. Still, my old 503 SS was perfectly OK. It would climb at 800 fpm, and cruise at 70 mph. If the single rotor is too much power, or weight, then I might even put an HKS on mine. It's hard to beat a reliable 4-stroke at 2.5 gph. BTW, if this reasonably priced HKS turns out to be something you don't want, email me off list, and I might buy it. Cheers, Rusty (the Wankler) -------------------------- when ya get a chance...put a tape to the inside of that Slingshot and tell me how wide it is between the longerons about the elbow. They also look pretty high ..are they pretty hard to mount? I have an Idea an HKS powered S'Shot might cruise at 75 or so, with a good load of fuel and stuff and could cafrry me a good way from the barn. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2005
From: PENGUIN <pengy(at)humboldt.net>
Subject: One Six Right
OK, there's no Kolbs in it, or at least in this 3 minute trailer for a new 73 minute GA documentary. But it will warm the cockles of your heart anyway. Anybody for flying a REAL tail dragger? ;-0 Penguin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 1990 kolb mk2
Date: Sep 14, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Richter" <susan203(at)centurytel.net> Subject: Kolb-List: 1990 kolb mk2 > > does anyone have any info on a 1990 mk2 with a 503 I just bought one but > haven't picked it up yet it will replace my original firestar,I was just > looking for some specs like weight how big of an engine it will handle, > how it will compare in flight to my firestar w/447,If there was any > problems with this design. any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks Ken Richter > > Nice plane the Mk-2, Kolb said to only go up to a 503 dual carb on them, > should have about the same performance as your Firestar, a little slower > climb with a passenger aboard. Keep us posted on how you like it. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 13, 2005
| I really like the HKS, and can't imagine why there aren't more of them on | Kolbs. | Still, my old 503 SS was perfectly | OK. It would climb at 800 fpm, and cruise at 70 mph. | Rusty (the Wankler) Hi Rusty/Gang: My 1984 Ultrastar with a 35 hp Cuyuna would fly circles around your 503 powered Sling Shot. The reason you don't see HKS on Kolbs is because they degrade the performance of a good aircraft design. It is obvious you were probably satisfied with the 503 on your SS because you had never flown a SS with a decent power before. IIRC you did not wait long after you flew your SS the first time to install an after market expansion chamber to try and get some power to fly the SS. Did you ever determine why the 503 seized on you after installation of the hot pipe? A light SS with a 582 was a blast in the ass to fly. It was also capable of flying two up, plus a large commercial video camera. Not quite as perky two up, but had a good solid feel to it. The 912 powered SS is really a nice bird. I never had a chance to cross country with it, but did a lot of local flying. Never did get a chance to fly the 912S powered SS, but I bet that was the cat's meow. The SS was designed to be a hot rod, yet it still retained the gentle flight characteristics that are the norm for all Homer Kolb's designs. Yes, Don G, the FF and the SS have many of the same flight characteristics. Big difference is weight. They are much the same aircraft though. Use same size wing panels. Guessing at this, but they both seem about the same length nose to tail. Rusty, I don't think you will have to worry about your Wankle overpowering the SS. I'd love to fly a SS that was overpowered. ;-) Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GeoR38(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2005
Subject: Re: Geo engine
In a message dated 9/9/2005 9:44:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, 13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net writes: How about this, let's both plan to be at the 2006 homecoming. Imagine two alternate engine SS's. hey Rich,,,, kinIgo? I could tag along if you don't mind flying nose high yer bud george ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2005
From: al bumhoffer <abumhoffer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexan
I am ready to make a gap seal and full enclosure for my Firestar II and hope to get all of this out of a single 4x8 sheet of lexan. I am wondering what thickness others have used and sources to purchase it from. Thanks Al Bumhoffer, Elkton MI, Firestar II 50 hours and loving it! __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 14, 2005
The reason you don't see HKS on Kolbs is because they degrade the performance of a good aircraft design. ------------------ (RD) Hi John, That statement seems a bit harsh. While I agree that an HKS or 503 won't give hotrod performance on a SS, the FS flies very well with a 503, and would do equally well with the more reliable and fuel efficient HKS. It would add a little weight, but I don't think that would degrade the performance that much. It is obvious you were probably satisfied with the 503 on your SS because you had never flown a SS with a decent power before. IIRC you did not wait long after you flew your SS the first time to install an after market expansion chamber to try and get some power to fly the SS. Did you ever determine why the 503 seized on you after installation of the hot pipe? (RD) It's true that I wanted more power on the SS, but I was looking for performance, and have been ever since. I try to convince myself that I'm older, and wiser now, but that doesn't seem to last long :-) (RD) BTW, the 503 never seized with the pipe, but it was running so lean that it was almost inevitable. I could have fixed the mixture, but the throttle response was so bad with the pipe, that it wasn't worth keeping. The 503 was much better, and safer as designed, so leaving it alone was the best option. Rusty, I don't think you will have to worry about your Wankle overpowering the SS. I'd love to fly a SS that was overpowered. ;-) (RD) The absolute minimum power available will be 100 hp, but it could have as much as 180 hp with the turbo. Once it get it pretty well tested, you will be welcome to fly it, despite your past tendency to break airplanes :-) Cheers, Rusty (wondering if I should install the Dynon EFIS I took out of the RV-3 :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 14, 2005
Several two cylinder 4 cycle aircraft engines come to mind that haven't lived up to their advertising, the Verner and the HKS. I trust Dennis Souder's judgement when he tested the HKS on the factory SS. ------------ (RD) In what way hasn't the HKS lived up to it's advertising? The Review Dennis did was on an early engine, 7.5 years ago!!! Even then, he didn't really find anything wrong with it. It didn't appear to make more than about 55 hp, and performed more like a 503 due to the extra weight, but how is that bad? If a plane is made to perform well with a 503, then it will also perform well with the HKS. For anyone who wants to read it (it has SS speed numbers in it too), here's a link to the archived copy of his review from March of 1998. http://snipurl.com/HKS_REVIEW (RD) From everything I've read, the HKS is a great engine today, quite possibly on the level of reliability with the 912. Unfortunately, it's almost the same price as well. I would like to see a test done now to see how the power compares to the 503 and 582. I know that there have been some changes in the HKS, which may very well have brought it's power up. There's also the possibility that Dennis didn't really have it running at it's best. An interesting point is the fact that I haven't broken one since I started powering them with 912's in 1994. Of course there is the one 5 years ago when I bent the MKIII in Muncho Lake, BC, after the gear leg/axle socket broke. Does that count? --------------- (RD) You're off the hook for that one. I was talking about the two chute deployment incidents. Nice to know that a 912 can keep you from breaking wings, or is one of those older and wiser cases :-) Rusty (Wankel, not Wankle) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Liability insurance for alternate engines?
Date: Sep 14, 2005
Rusty wrote: << For those of you with non-Rotax engines, who's the best source for insurance at the moment? I will need some minimal liability to keep the hanger police happy >> Rusty, and Kolbers - I'm paying $480 a year for Liability only, with Falcon. $500K each occurrance; covers bodily injury and property damage. Excludes passengers, since I am still in my Phase-I test period and only fly solo. Was the same cost as last year, when my Mark-3 still had the Verner engine installed. Dennis Kirby Mark-III, 912UL, 29 hrs TT Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2005
Subject: Re: Lexan
From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com>
Al .062 is just fine. Plenty stiff when you curve it around the fuselage. Should deflect those strange , fast flying , little birds that I see from time to time. Swifts?? Pretty sure that is what TNK uses? Fasten it on one side and let it hinge itself. Works fine on my Firefly. I bought .062 for 60 bucks for a full sheet. Last year. May be higher now? Any plastic supply house. I bought from Bruce plastic in Lebanon,Tenn. Herb Ps: Ran into Ray Brown at TNK last week. They will have some little surprises on display at the homecomming I suspect. We need to get him to design some gull wing doors for the MkIII while is is back. :-) writes: > > > I am ready to make a gap seal and full enclosure for > my Firestar II and hope to get all of this out of a > single 4x8 sheet of lexan. I am wondering what > thickness others have used and sources to purchase it > from. Thanks > Al Bumhoffer, Elkton MI, Firestar II 50 hours and > loving it! > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2005
From: PENGUIN <pengy(at)humboldt.net>
Subject: Re: One Six Right
What a genius - no url... http://www.onesixright.com/video/aerials.html Sorry about that... Penguin PENGUIN wrote: > >OK, there's no Kolbs in it, or at least in this 3 minute trailer for a >new 73 minute GA documentary. > >But it will warm the cockles of your heart anyway. > >Anybody for flying a REAL tail dragger? ;-0 > >Penguin > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 14, 2005
Hopefully the little HKS is putting out more horses now than it did 7 years ago. Even if it does, it is heavy and there is still the high mounting problem that doesn't do anything for performance on a Kolb aircraft. ----------------- (RD) I give up on you John. You've obviously made up your mind about the HKS, and nothing can be said to change it. You have chosen to condemn the engine for all eternity based on one brief (less than 10 hours) test of an early version of the engine, 7.5 years ago. If that's the level of research you're comfortable with, that's fine. (RD) With any luck, most folks on the list are far more open minded, and will actually look at how well the engine has been working for everyone else, in addition to the test that Dennis did long ago. One data point isn't enough for a decision! (RD) Off to work. Go ahead, talk bad about me while I'm gone, I'm used to it :-) Cheers, Rusty (change is good, like html text and photo attachments) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <williamdgleason(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 1990 kolb mk2
Date: Sep 14, 2005
> > From: "Ken Richter" <susan203(at)centurytel.net> > Date: 2005/09/13 Tue PM 10:29:16 EDT > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: 1990 kolb mk2 > > > does anyone have any info on a 1990 mk2 with a 503 I just bought one but haven't picked it up yet it will replace my original firestar,I was just looking for some specs like weight how big of an engine it will handle, how it will compare in flight to my firestar w/447,If there was any problems with this design. any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks Ken Richter > > I have a mk2 that I built in 1990, serial # ts0092 with a 503scsi(520 hrs.) . The gross wt. from Kolb is 750 lbs.I just completed my biannual flight review in it. Weight with instructor, and 5 gal of fuel was 785 lbs. My instructor gave me a good workout including stalls, steep turns, and emergency landings and the mk2 performed very well. It cruises at 65mph, pilot only, using 2.5 gph. As far as I know the mk2 has an excellent saftey record. I have not had any problems, but I did recieve a reinforcement bracket for an aileron control bellcrank from Kolb several years ago. Also, there was reinforcement brackets sent from the original Kolb co. for the wing. These were to spread out the compression load on the inboard steel ribs. Dale Gleason > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2005
From: Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Subject: Re: SlingShot speeds...
At 01:50 PM 9/14/2005, you wrote: > >Rusty/All: > >Believe I qualified my opinions as observations, admitting I have >never had a chance to fly with an HKS. A friend of mine just finished building a Murphy Maverick with an HKS. (You can see a photo of it on our EAA Chapters web site: http://www.eaa347.org. It's also featured in the latest Sport Aviation magazine, page 78.) Here are the specs he's getting out of it so far (solo): gross weight = 950 lbs empty weight = 538 lbs rotate speed = 35mph best angle climb 46 mph best rate of climb 58 mph stall 30 mph max-cross wind at 90 deg. 18 mph vne 120 mph max cruise 90mph va maneuvering 80 mph at 6200rpm, maximum 3 min = 60 hp cruise rpm is 5,800 at 56 hp 1400rpm is idle oil pressure is 85 psi @ 6200 rpm oil temp. 140F-170F optimum, 190F max-122F min. Cht 338F max Egt 1400F max Gallons per hr about 3 1/2 Engine weighs about 121 lbs. The Maverick has about 17 hrs time so far. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Kolb Quit.
Date: Sep 15, 2005
Hi all, among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very high angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of A contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the flair with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. . Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this? Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kolb Quit.
Date: Sep 15, 2005
Pat/All, My view on the so called Kolb Quit lays mainly with the pilot. If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too great a height all will be fine. On the Classic there is a large amount of flap (too much in my opinion) and when the nose is raised to flare the speed drops very fast resulting in the aircraft starting to sink faster and faster. The MkIII series by their design are draggy planes with little stored energy and a relatively high wing loading for their type, all aircraft that have the same aspects will exhibit the same, I sure would not land the Cap 10 in the three point attitude at the stall, in fact as a high hour qualified flying instructor and flight examiner and test pilot I would very rarely let the speed drop to stall at the landing, Speed is safety. The New steel main gear legs sit the nose up even higher along with the Slingshot etc and even there I can see no real problem with the wing incidence on the ground. In my experience at low approach speed keep the approach angle shallow and the power on and do not cut the power until you are quite close to the ground. From a glide approach the angle is quite steep and you need to maintain a much higher speed as when you level off and flare the energy in the aircraft runs out very quickly. Keeping a higher approach speed and a shallower approach angle and not shutting the throttle until close to the ground will actually give some 'float' and good landings generally. KEEP THE SPEED UP AND KEEP SAFE. Kind Regards Mike Xtra/Jab 2200 110 hrs on the clock and climbing ----- Original Message ----- From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit. > > Hi all, > among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is > cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail > I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very high > angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of > A > contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the > flair > with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. . > > Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this? > > Cheers > > Pat > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Quit.
Date: Sep 15, 2005
Pat Mike covered it very well but to answer the other part of the question most Kolbs have a fairly low angle of attack on the ground that's why we commonly say you can't really do a full stall 3pt landing. You said cut down the tail wheel assembly? If you are talking about cutting the aluminum tail strut/spring what ever its called. I kind of like the stock length because it gives a smoother ride on rough ground. Are you fighting a aft CG issue? Why not move something heavy to the nose cone. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Silver Fern Microlights Ltd" <kiwimick(at)sfmicro.fsnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit. > > > Pat/All, > My view on the so called Kolb Quit lays mainly with the pilot. > If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too great > a > height all will be fine. > On the Classic there is a large amount of flap (too much in my opinion) > and > when the nose is raised to flare the speed drops very fast resulting in > the > aircraft starting to sink faster and faster. The MkIII series by their > design are draggy planes with little stored energy and a relatively high > wing loading for their type, all aircraft that have the same aspects will > exhibit the same, I sure would not land the Cap 10 in the three point > attitude at the stall, in fact as a high hour qualified flying instructor > and flight examiner and test pilot I would very rarely let the speed drop > to > stall at the landing, Speed is safety. > The New steel main gear legs sit the nose up even higher along with the > Slingshot etc and even there I can see no real problem with the wing > incidence on the ground. > In my experience at low approach speed keep the approach angle shallow and > the power on and do not cut the power until you are quite close to the > ground. > From a glide approach the angle is quite steep and you need to maintain a > much higher speed as when you level off and flare the energy in the > aircraft > runs out very quickly. > Keeping a higher approach speed and a shallower approach angle and not > shutting the throttle until close to the ground will actually give some > 'float' and good landings generally. > KEEP THE SPEED UP AND KEEP SAFE. > > > Kind Regards > Mike > Xtra/Jab 2200 > 110 hrs on the clock and climbing > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> > To: > Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Quit. > > >> >> Hi all, >> among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is >> cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail >> I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very >> high >> angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of >> A >> contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the >> flair >> with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. . >> >> Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this? >> >> Cheers >> >> Pat >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Quit.
Date: Sep 15, 2005
| My view on the so called Kolb Quit lays mainly with the pilot. | If the approach speed is sufficient and the flare is not done at too great a | height all will be fine. | Mike Mike/Pat/Rick/All: Absolutely agree with Mike on the above statement. I really do not know about "Kolb Quit", a term that was recently coined by Pat Ladd, who has yet to fly his Kolb. All aircraft stall when they finish flying. The airplane doesn't care if it is a foot off the ground or 10 feet off the ground. It is the pilot that should control the airplane, not the airplane controlling the pilot. I have always built my Kolbs much taller on the mains that Homer Kolb designed. Primarily, to help slow down and stop the airplane on my short grass airstrip. By being able to turn the bottom of the wing up to the relative wind, I could get the Firestar stopped before I ran out of airstrip. As an added bonus, the tall main gear gave me the capability of rotating much sooner, and also put the aircraft in a normal three point landing stance. Normally, I shoot my approaches in the Kolbs with the throttle closed, not using power as a crutch to make the field. I believe this is good training that will come in handy should the engine quit on final. In the early days of ULs, losing an engine on final was a frequent occurance. Homer Kolb designed his airplanes to sit in a level attitude for one reason, to make them safer for low time pilots. He feels if it takes more airspeed to get the airplane off the ground and back on again, in a level attitude, they are less prone to stall and crash. I also cut my tail wheel strut very short, with approximately 5 inches of exposed strut. This does several things for me. One is gets the nose a little higher to compensate for the 8 inch Maule Tundra Tailwheel. It also takes a lot of lateral loads off the tail post. I have broken the tail post of my MKIII several times because of a lot of landings and an overly heavy tail. We helped strengthen the tail post by adding a couple struts from the bottom of the tail post to the tail boom ring. Probably one of the best modifications made to my MKIII. I like the oversized flaps on my MKIII. I normally use them every landing, unless there is severe turbulence and cross wind. They are an important part of my emergency equipment should the engine quit. They allow me to land in very small forced landing areas that would not be possible to make without flaps. The extremely steep glide angle with flaps contributes to the fun and excitement of flying a MKIII. Since the technique to land a MKIII, with 40 degrees of flaps, is not like a "real" airplane, suddenly folks come up with terms like "Kolb quit". My first approach in a MKIII was as a passenger. Dennis Souder was checking me out in the factory MKIII in February 1991. I was sure he was going to drill the MKIII and me right through the earth. At the very last split second, Dennis did a slight flare, decent stopped, and we were on the ground. Now, that is my way of making a normal MKIII landing. Any shallower approach angle is what I term a B-52 approach. Learn to fly the airplane and terms like "Kolb quit" will no longer be a part of your vocabulary. john h MKIII - 2,373.9 912ULS - 1,028.0 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Departing the list was SlingShot speeds...
Date: Sep 16, 2005
You're right Rick, but that seems to be how every thread with John goes. Even when I try to agree with him, this crap starts, and I'm tired of wasting my time with it. My goal here was to keep people informed about the rotary engine possibilities, but I suppose if anyone really wants to know, they can join the rotary list, or send me an email. Best wishes to all, and that certainly includes John. Rusty ---------------- This has been a interesting discussion and some very good information has been gained but it seems to be more of a pissing match now. Please take this off the list. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: other than 912
Date: Sep 16, 2005
I for one enjoy seeing other posts about engines that are not 912 so keep them coming Ken -----Original Message----- From: Rusty [mailto:13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net] Subject: Kolb-List: Departing the list was SlingShot speeds... You're right Rick, but that seems to be how every thread with John goes. Even when I try to agree with him, this crap starts, and I'm tired of wasting my time with it. My goal here was to keep people informed about the rotary engine possibilities, but I suppose if anyone really wants to know, they can join the rotary list, or send me an email. Best wishes to all, and that certainly includes John. Rusty ---------------- This has been a interesting discussion and some very good information has been gained but it seems to be more of a pissing match now. Please take this off the list. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N27SB(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 16, 2005
Subject: Cool Wire
To All, I have been looking for a really good multi-conductor cable to run from the 447 to the inst panel. It seems like you can never find just the right stuff. Recently I came across a Surplus lot of 12 conductor 22awg FEP insulated cable with both a foil and braided shield. This stuff usually sells for about $4.00 per foot which is pretty pricey. If anyone is interested I will share some of this for $1.85 per foot. The O.D. of this stuff is about .250. With 12 cond + ground you can run dual cht, dual egt, tach, kill switch and have two wires left if you share the shielding as a ground for the tach and kill. Steve 2 Fireflies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cool Wire
I'm familiar with this type of multi conductor cable and would suggest that for safety's sake, at least two strands be paralled for a kill switch use. To All, I have been looking for a really good multi-conductor cable to run from the 447 to the inst panel. It seems like you can never find just the right stuff. Recently I came across a Surplus lot of 12 conductor 22awg FEP insulated cable with both a foil and braided shield. This stuff usually sells for about $4.00 per foot which is pretty pricey. If anyone is interested I will share some of this for $1.85 per foot. The O.D. of this stuff is about .250. With 12 cond + ground you can run dual cht, dual egt, tach, kill switch and have two wires left if you share the shielding as a ground for the tach and kill. Steve 2 Fireflies --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 16, 2005
| Getting the plane a couple of imches off | the ground when it quits is the trick. | | Cheers | | Pat Patrick/Gang: Agree 100%. Wish I could do that 100% of the time, but alas, I can not. I usually bomb most of my landings on pavement, yet seldom have a problem doing a good 3 pt on grass. Must be some hang up in my mind. New Kolb builders usually get hung up on landing a Kolb. I think they get this mind set that they are going to have a difficult time getting the airplane on the ground without bending the landing gear. They think about it so much, they go out and do it. I was not a high time Kolb pilot when I started flying Kolbs. I was not even a fixed wing pilot when I started flying Kolbs. I could fly helicopters, but not one minute of stick time in a fixed wing. Took two landings to get it right. First landing was late. Touched down on the departure end of my unimproved 600 ft cow pasture, went over the hill, then took out landing gear and prop when it cross a cow path perpedicular to the air strip. Second landing was ok, and I had learned how to do it. Keep up your airspeed, fly it to the ground, push the stick forward to hold it there until it qets below flying speed, which will be lower than your stall speed in ground effect. Go fly, have fun, be safe, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb Quit/Tail Post Problems
Date: Sep 16, 2005
Hi Rick/Gang: Let me see if I can respond to your post without hurting anyone's feelings or causing them to get their panties in a wad. | John has a fantastic airplane but the tail loads that John talks about are | created by the modifications he made in his airplane and are not as | pronounced in stock airplane. Rick, you are partially correct in the above. If one looks at the tail section of a Kolb, the only lateral bracing one will see is the tail wires which only keep the parts seperated, and a couple welds on the tail boom ring to the upper and lower vertical stabilizer sockets. As far as I can determine these welds are the stock lateral bracing. Correct me if I am wrong. All Kolb aircraft load up the tail post laterally in normal operation, especially those aircraft equipped with a non-full- swiveling tailwheel. The reason the load up the tail post laterally is because pilots try to turn them tighter than the tail wheel will swivel. Then the tail wheel slides and side hops. I broke the lower vertical stabilizer on the old factory MKIII at OSH many years ago for that reason. Actually, it was the aluminum lower vertical stabilizer tube, where it comes out of the 4130 socket off the tail post. I sent urls for photos of this new bracing to the Kolb List some time ago. His higher landing gear which shifts allot | more weight to the tail and that big tundra sized tail wheel likely gets | allot more grip with anything it rolls on. Together they stress the tail | more than with a stock configuration. Actually it is the relocation of the main gear 8 inches forward of the stock gear that adds most of the weight, about the same as the Sling Shot carries on its tail wheel. The Maule Tundra Tail Wheel (that's what Maule calls it) probably reduces a lot of stress on the tail boom and the tail post. There is much less resistance in a rolling, full swiveling, pneumatic tail wheel, than a small stock or after market tail wheel that is normally fitted to a Kolb. The 8 inch tail wheel has not been on the airplane that many hours. Most of the tail post and tail boom ring welds and tubing breaks were experienced flying with the much smaller and lighter Maule and Scott 6 inch tail wheels. Another factor is number of take offs and landings, primarily on unimproved surfaces, and high time. Rick, I took the liberty to change the subject line to what we are talking about. Like any other airplane, landing a Kolb is the same. To maintain airspeed with the engine at idle one must push the nose down. Pull the nose up and it will stall. Fly the airplane to the ground and land. What is so difficult about that? If one maintains their airspeed, one will not stall the airplane. If you touch down a Kolb above stall speed and do not correct with forward stick, it will balloon more than high enough to stall and bend and break landing gear. If you do balloon on landing, as I do quite frequently, push the nose down and come in with a little power to cushion back on the ground. john h MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2005
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: HKS 700 engine
> >Group, I have been off the web for about a week due to a computer crash. I have no experience with the HKS, but I have been around quite a few. My old EAA Chapter 453 members fly at least three of these engines. One was in a Kitfox and another was in a T-Bird, both had been powered by a Rotax. Another was a two place high wing tail dragger that had been powered by a Subaru engine. All of owners had nothing but good things to say about their engines. If you would like to talk to any of the owners, or to the person who installed the engines just go to the following jump and give them a call: http://www.losthillaviationinc.com/index.htm Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: kolb 3 pt landing
Date: Sep 16, 2005
pat it seems in my mkIIIc that if I do a complete stall landing the tail wheel hits first with the mains about 4 to 6 inches off the ground... when the tail wheel hits and the mains drop down with a thud, there is no bounce and no indication that it wants to keep flying but it is not as soft as I would like.... when I use full flaps that condition is reduced. but I really prefer only =BD flaps and only use full if I really need to come out of the sky fast.... the decent angle with full flaps is scary for non kolb flyers... even =BD flaps at an idle it quite steep.... I usually keep some power on in order to make the arrival more comfortable. getting back to the original question: if the tail sat a bit lower it would not be a problem.... it would make the angle of attack on touchdown better.... john H raised the front of his mk IIIc by installing longer main landing gear.... it does the same thing... I raised the front by installing larger wheels, went from a 600 x 6 x 15 to a standard 600 x 6 tyre that I got used at the airport, they come off a super cub. boyd ----------------------------------------- Hi all, among the measures suggested to get the weight down on my Kolb Xtra is cutting down part of the tail wheel assembly.This will lower the tail I feel that this is a last resort as I think that the Kolb has a very high angle of attack when at rest on the ground and I wonder if this high A of A contributes to the Kolb Quit when pilots are sitting nose high in the flair with falling airspeed while feeling for a three point landing. . Any of you long hours pilots have an opinion on this? Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: other than 912
Date: Sep 16, 2005
. Jaime runs at > rpms similar to the Rotax and uses his planes regularly for cross- > country travel. He is a Chief Inspector for the MD-RA and saves a > lot of time getting to builders' airstrips all over Ontario when he > is doing inspections. ???????? Where in Ontario is he based ?????????? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2005
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Kolb Kwit
Keep the airspeed up on final or you'll run out of flare energy and plant the aircraft - all good advice! The Kolb family (along with most other ultralights) are draggy airplanes that do not tend to float well in ground effect when compared to other more aerodynamically clean aircraft. A good rule of thumb for approach speed in ultralights and sailplanes is 1.5 times the stall speed in smooth air. Add 1/2 the wind plus the gust factor up to a maximum of twice the stall speed. Steep power off approaches to a short field are not the best technique unless you have to get in over an approach path obstruction. Fly a 2 - 3 degree glide path (not a low angle dragged in approach) using power as necessary to maintain your target airspeed. Your engine didn't quit so far during the flight, and isn't likely to now. Nothing wrong with practicing steeper simulated engine out approaches, but as a standard approach, forget it - bad technique. Any flight instructor or professional pilot will tell you that. Don't be intimidated by the bomber approach crap. A stabilized power on approach will put you on the proper spot at the right speed every time. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, HI FS2, 503 DCDI 20,000 + hours in the air in many types of a/c and counting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: 2SI Engines.
Date: Sep 17, 2005
I have another major question. With out causing too much contriversy, does any one have any experiance or knowledge of 2SI engines? I do know that according to he factory they will not support the engine if it is mounted on an airframe but it is still available for watercraft and snowmobiles and pumps. It is reliable and safe or is it like a Cuyuna. I am seriously looking at a Challenger II CW that has one on it with less that 100 hours. Chuck S ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 2SI Engines.
Date: Sep 17, 2005
----- Original Message ----- > > I have another major question. With out causing too much contriversy, does > any one have any experiance or knowledge of 2SI engines? I do know that > according to he factory they will not support the engine if it is mounted > on > an airframe but it is still available for watercraft and snowmobiles and > pumps. It is reliable and safe or is it like a Cuyuna. I am seriously > looking at a Challenger II CW that has one on it with less that 100 hours. > Chuck S > > > Chuck, I have the 690 engine on my Mk-3, only 70hrs as I have not flown this year for personal reasons. So far I am pretty happy with the 690 but have too little time on it to give you a difinitive answer. As this engine is unsupported by the manufacturer it does put you in a compromised position. Sorry for mudding up the water for you. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA, Still in hanger building mode. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2005
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Good advice - and now for the part about approaches over a steep obstruction. I have a string of those big high tensions towers and lines about 1,000' out from touchdown, and it is mandatory to lose 400' vertical across 1,000' horizontal. (The power towers sit on ridges, and my touchdown point is at the base of a small rise) Since a go around is unadvisable, it needs to work right every time. Here is how I do it - Stabilize the airspeed about 1/4 mile from the obstruction with however much flaps you plan to use. My MKIII has six flap positions, max is about 35 degrees, and that is what I use. My minimum approach speed with vortex generators is 45, but the MKIII with flaps will slow down so quickly that 55 is a more comfortable speed. I stabilize the approach to cross the power tower with at least 30' of altitude - 50' when it is turbulent. (No point in being a media event - or a Krispy Kritter). As soon as I cross the obstruction, I go to idle but keep the same airspeed. I sometimes need a shot of power on short final to make it pretty, but I plan for idle all the way to touchdown. If the engine quits - the MKIII glides much better dead stick than when it is at idle. On a MKIII, you can use the flap handle to control glidepath almost like spoilers on a sailplane. Less flaps - flatter glide. More flaps - steeper glide. On the expensive occasion when the spiderweb plugged up my oil tank line, I learned this bit of trivia under pressure, I'm sure it would be less distracting to practice it without a whimpering passenger.... And to paraphrase friend Dave below - a stabilized power off approach will also put you on the proper spot at the right speed every time. Once your approach is stabilized, look at the touchdown point through the wind screen, what is it doing? Moving up, or moving down? Plan accordingly, it's simple, and it's consistent. I only have about 1,500 hours, but most of them are going in and out of this same 750' long, highly obstructed airstrip. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Keep the airspeed up on final or you'll run out of flare energy and plant >the aircraft - all good advice! The Kolb family (along with most other >ultralights) are draggy airplanes that do not tend to float well in ground >effect when compared to other more aerodynamically clean aircraft. > > A good rule of thumb for approach speed in ultralights and sailplanes is > 1.5 times the stall speed in smooth air. Add 1/2 the wind plus the gust > factor up to a maximum of twice the stall speed. > >Steep power off approaches to a short field are not the best technique >unless you have to get in over an approach path obstruction. Fly a 2 - 3 >degree glide path (not a low angle dragged in approach) using power as >necessary to maintain your target airspeed. Your engine didn't quit so >far during the flight, and isn't likely to now. Nothing wrong with >practicing steeper simulated engine out approaches, but as a standard >approach, forget it - bad technique. Any flight instructor or >professional pilot will tell you that. Don't be intimidated by the bomber >approach crap. A stabilized power on approach will put you on the proper >spot at the right speed every time. > >Dave Bigelow >Kamuela, HI >FS2, 503 DCDI >20,000 + hours in the air in many types of a/c and counting > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 17, 2005
| Does your 200 yard strip have hedges or other obstructions on the approach? | If you fly regularly from there that will keep your landings sharp. | Calm waters do not make good sailors | | Cheers | | Pat Patrick/All: I taught myself to fly fixed wing off my 600 ft strip which has been improved and stretched to 750 ft. That was 21 years ago, before the days of brakes on my airplanes. With the luxury of brakes, I can fly passengers in and out of my strip with ease. I don't know about sailors Pat, but I do know that regular flying in and out of confined areas, and my airstrip, will keep one in good shape for the day when the engine quits. Take care, john h MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Quit/Tail Post Problems
Date: Sep 17, 2005
| How do other people cope? | | Cheers | | Pat Pat/Gang: I take a lot of tranquilizers!!! Seriously, fly the airplane. john h MIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 2SI Engines.
Date: Sep 17, 2005
Denny; You did not muddy any waters on my end. I am seriously looking at a 1989 Challenger II Clip wing with a 50 hp motor on it. Cuyuna is a good reason to stay on the ground. This motor might be different. Thanks for the input. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- > > I have another major question. With out causing too much contriversy, does > any one have any experiance or knowledge of 2SI engines? I do know that > according to he factory they will not support the engine if it is mounted > on > an airframe but it is still available for watercraft and snowmobiles and > pumps. It is reliable and safe or is it like a Cuyuna. I am seriously > looking at a Challenger II CW that has one on it with less that 100 hours. > Chuck S > > > Chuck, I have the 690 engine on my Mk-3, only 70hrs as I have not flown this year for personal reasons. So far I am pretty happy with the 690 but have too little time on it to give you a difinitive answer. As this engine is unsupported by the manufacturer it does put you in a compromised position. Sorry for mudding up the water for you. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA, Still in hanger building mode. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 17, 2005
| Steep power off approaches to a short field are not the best technique unless you have to get in over an approach path obstruction. Fly a 2 - 3 degree glide path (not a low angle dragged in approach) using power as necessary to maintain your target airspeed. Your engine didn't quit so far during the flight, and isn't likely to now. Nothing wrong with practicing steeper simulated engine out approaches, but as a standard approach, forget it - bad technique. Any flight instructor or professional pilot will tell you that. Don't be intimidated by the bomber approach crap. A stabilized power on approach will put you on the proper spot at the right speed every time. | | Dave Bigelow | Kamuela, HI | FS2, 503 DCDI | 20,000 + hours in the air in many types of a/c and counting Morning Dave B/Gang: What aircraft does the above advice apply to? Normal approach for a Kolb is what "real airplane pilots" consider "steep". Normal take off angle in a Kolb is considered steep by "real airplane pilots". Getting into the practice of power off steep approaches will help insure that you will end up at your desired touch down point if the engine quits on final, which is one of the most frequent modes for engine out in a two stroke powered Kolb. Encouraging folks to fly Kolb approaches at 2-3 degrees will put them in the briar patch when engine quits. It encourages them to use the crutch of power to make their touch down point. When the crutch is gone, it is back in the briar patch. Do not want to start a controversy, but there are distinct differences in flying a Kolb and flying a 747. Primarily, the Kolb does not have auto pilot or four engines! john h MKIII Titus, Alabama Very limited experience in other types of airplanes. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: Kolb Kwit
These exchanges bring back memories of learning to fly in 1935 on a 900 ft. dirt strip. The owner and instructor keep his Waco C, Cessna AW, Staggerwing Beech and a Curtis Jr. on it. I've seen all varieties of Waco's, Stinsons, an early Ryan STA and misc. 1920's - 30's craft fly in and out. It did have a clear approach on one end. Many of the aircraft had tail skids but no brakes, and all pilots were skilled in that type of field, as most were of that type in the 1930's. Do not archicve. Kolb UltraStar, Tenn. John Hauck wrote: | Does your 200 yard strip have hedges or other obstructions on the approach? | If you fly regularly from there that will keep your landings sharp. | Calm waters do not make good sailors | | Cheers | | Pat Patrick/All: I taught myself to fly fixed wing off my 600 ft strip which has been improved and stretched to 750 ft. That was 21 years ago, before the days of brakes on my airplanes. With the luxury of brakes, I can fly passengers in and out of my strip with ease. I don't know about sailors Pat, but I do know that regular flying in and out of confined areas, and my airstrip, will keep one in good shape for the day when the engine quits. Take care, john h MKIII Titus, Alabama --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: q
Date: Sep 17, 2005
power-on approaches as the standard procedure?? >> Hi Russ, I was going to stay out of this one but seeing that you brought it up I wasn`t too happy with that advice either. Do your circuit so that you can make the field if the engine quits is my motto. Perhaps that ain`t so in the big stuff where engines don`t fail in millions of hours, but in our planes Uh huh! Come to that I didn`t like the `nail the speed with the power`. I was taught Attitude (and therefore speed) with the stick, Altitude with the throttle. If your selected landing point is crawling UP the windscreen you open the throttle NOT pull the stick back Now I am going to run for cover. Cheers Pat (The arguement which is bound to follow may be worth archiving?) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 17, 2005
| My hat off to you John. | | Pat Patrick/Gang: Thanks, but no thanks. It was a stupid thing to do on my part, even though I had a stack of "stick and rudder" flying books copyrighted from the 20's and 30's. I had no problem flying the Ultrastar with the "book learning" and my back ground flying rotary wing aircraft. My problem was trying to put that little airplane back in that postage stamp airstrip, never having flown or landed a fixed wing airplane. Had I gotten a few hours dual, I would have been much better equipped to fly and land. Second landing was a piece of cake though. ;-) I think I could land better back then than I do now. Probably was a lot more serious about doing an "A" ride for my landings. jlhn h MKIII/Ultrastar/Firestar Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Tail Post Bracing
Date: Sep 17, 2005
Hi Folks: Here's a shot of my tail post bracing: http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/Kolb%20Stuff/Crop01.JPG Here's a shot of Gary Haley's tail post bracing. Gary did his after he found out about mine. It worked out well for him because he had alread gotten his fabric and paint done. His method allows for installation without screwing up paint and fabric. Mine are welded. http://www.c-gate.net/~ppetty/Hauck's%20Stuff/Kolb%20Stuff/crop02.JPG Take care, john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tail Post Bracing
Date: Sep 17, 2005
Snuff: Yes. Mine braces in tension and compression. Gary's in tension only. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net>
Subject: More History - Trailer for sale
Date: Sep 18, 2005
I wrote this recently to a friend: Kolb's very first customer was a local VW mechanic who dismayed us big-time by threatening to put a VW into his Kolb Flyer!. The empty weight of a standard Flyer was at that time 155 lb. with 2 Chrysler engines. And he wanted to put a VW in this! I went over one day and he had the cage cut and modified and sure enough there was a 1200 CC VW with a Flyer cage molded around it. He did good work - it looked very nice. I am almost sorry to say that we talked him out of it and he replaced it with ... are you ready for this: (... to be continued) If I told an interesting story, I figured you wouldn't mind so much if I mentioned about a trailer I have for sale. It was used for hauling and storing a FireStar for about a year. It has sat inside my storage builidng for 6 years and after not having used it for 6 years, I figured it is time to move it on. It is a commercially manufactured tandem axle trailer 22' 5" long on the inside and the opening at the rear doors is 76-7/8" wide and 78" high. It comes with a bracket for mounting the rear of the fuselage tube and has wheel chocks and a pair of fold out ramps. It is a 1998 trailer, but at most it has 2,500 miles on it and it looks almost like new. Trailer has a 7,000 GW. Trailer is the usual white aluminum skin. If interested, let me know and I can email some photos. It had 4 Chrysler West Bend engines ... all in a row. I actually had the opportunity to fly the beast. It had 4 little throttle controls and pushing and pushing on those tiny little levers pretty kept me full time type busy! Busy trying to keep the engines from talking to each other ... keeping the rpms far enough apart to avoid the droning that occurs when two or more engine hit the same speed. Sounded like a swarm of maddened hornets. It was a real drill starting it too. The lengthened engine mounting tube, as you might guess, could move around quite a bit, so you had to be careful pulling on the recoil. Price of trailer $3,200 or best offer. Located in central PA. Hope you enjoyed the story and didn't mind the ad. Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Tail Post Bracing
Date: Sep 17, 2005
I wonder if aluminum is a good choice ?? I don't think compression is a real factor, since one side or the other will always be in tension. Seems to me that steel strap would be stronger, less apt to fatigue, and would be moderately streamlined. Hmmm...........?? Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Post Bracing > > Sweet. I think that would work on mine, & since my tail wheel is not full > swivel, I probably need it. Best of all, I think the local hobby shop has > some streamline aluminum tubing that would work just fine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2005
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Last post on this subject: Let's face it folks - we count on our engines every time we fly. I suppose you can do a profile where you take off on a long enough runway, where, if the engine quits you can either land straight ahead, or do an abbreviated pattern. In the real world, you can try and maximize your chances of finding a place to land if the engine quits, but there are plenty of moments in every flight where a failure is going to result in a landing that will bend the aircraft (and maybe you). The only cure for this is to choose a reliable engine and maintain it. That's why John H. likes his 912 so much. Making normal approaches with a 2 - 3 degree glide path and power on is the preferred technique for light aircraft, and has been for a number of years. An FAA check pilot is looking for a stabilized power-on approach. The 2 - 3 degree glide path is even used in sailplanes. You establish the approach angle with the proper airspeed, and modulate the spoilers and pitch attitude to maintain the desired airspeed and glide path. You use the spoilers like a throttle, and can spot a landing within a few feet of where you desire. It's the same with jet fighters, jet airliners, light twins, Cessna 150's, gyro copters, and any ultralight I've flown. In fact, the only aircrart I've flown where it isn't the best technique is hang gliders. No spoilers there, and every approach is power off. None of this relieves us from learning the skills of an engine out approach. It just makes good sense to practice them so you have a reasonable chance of surviving an unplanned landing. Again, in the real world, my Firestar descends at 600 feet per minute with the engine off. At 1,000 feet, there are 100 seconds to select a place to land, set up the approach, and land - not very much time. Most of the time, our engines are not so considerate, and like to quit at a couple of hundred feet right after takeoff. How about 20 seconds or less from silence to touchdown? Just enough time to lower the nose, maybe turn a few degrees one way or other, grit your teeth, and flare. Point is, you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't eliminate the risk. If you are going to have any fun in this sport, you are not going to spend every second of every flight worrying about the engine quitting. You fly the aircraft using the techniques that have proven successful over the years, and if the engine quits, you deal with it. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, HI FS2 503 DCDI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: More History - Trailer for sale
Date: Sep 18, 2005
Dennis, I think all here will agree that your name on the message makes it Kolb related, but thanks for the great story as a bonus. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, Leechburg, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> Subject: Kolb-List: More History - Trailer for sale ) > > If I told an interesting story, I figured you wouldn't mind so much if I > mentioned about a trailer I have for sale. > Hope you enjoyed the story and didn't mind the ad. > > Dennis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "PATRICK LADD" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 18, 2005
you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't eliminate the risk>> Very succinctly put, Dave. I am sure we could argue about the details of how you do that but neither of us would basically disagree. Cheers Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: 2SI engines
Date: Sep 18, 2005
Chuck, That 3 cyl engine you are looking at is a 690L...and it makes a strong 70 ponies. The supplier you want to talk to is Zerkle, Roger E-mail Address(es): zde(at)frtci.net ZDE..or Zerkle Diversified Enterprises.. FlatRock Illinois Tell em his old Honda Rep sent ya...hehe Roger was the official distributor for 2SI engines, until Nick (owner of 2 stroke inc) got so mad over frivilous lawsuits he decided to abandon the airplane market and left the dealers and distributors high and dry. Being the only American manufacturer with any serious market share catering to this small market, he was the only one that really has to defend himself against loseing all the company assets. Rotax, and Hirth of course do not have to worry about loseing anything because they have no assets in the USA that an American court could attach. ...Roger has a strong backround in aviation, from teaching A&P at a University until retirement...he is an EX DAR/AI ...and....he served in the navy as a S-2 crew chief on a carrier...the Yorktown if I remember right...but he was a lot younger then!!! He has a lot of parts and engines and will be able to keep these engines going for a very long time.Plus he has contracted to various vendors and is haveing many parts that are hard to get for the oldest engines made. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 2SI engines
Date: Sep 18, 2005
Chuck, Don is right, that is a 690L-70 on that Challenger. It is 70hp and is more than enough for that bird, way more power than a 503. 2SIs 50 hp model looks just like the 690 but is only two cylinder. For parts and service call Roger at ZDE 618-584-3567. Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > > Good morning Ed. > The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade > prop. > I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled > engine. > I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna > (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have > flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of > others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 > that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error > causes > the problems. > Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they > said > "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the 2si > web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He would > not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said it > was mounted on an air frame. > Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 2SI engines
Date: Sep 18, 2005
so is this a good motor then ?? Chuck Chuck, Don is right, that is a 690L-70 on that Challenger. It is 70hp and is more than enough for that bird, way more power than a 503. 2SIs 50 hp model looks just like the 690 but is only two cylinder. For parts and service call Roger at ZDE 618-584-3567. Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > > Good morning Ed. > The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade > prop. > I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled > engine. > I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna > (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have > flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of > others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 > that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error > causes > the problems. > Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they > said > "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the 2si > web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He would > not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said it > was mounted on an air frame. > Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 2SI engines
Date: Sep 18, 2005
Thanks Don I assume you have seen this Challenger then? I'll contact your friend Roger and see what he has to offer to shed light on this matter. Chuck Chuck, That 3 cyl engine you are looking at is a 690L...and it makes a strong 70 ponies. The supplier you want to talk to is Zerkle, Roger E-mail Address(es): zde(at)frtci.net ZDE..or Zerkle Diversified Enterprises.. FlatRock Illinois Tell em his old Honda Rep sent ya...hehe Roger was the official distributor for 2SI engines, until Nick (owner of 2 stroke inc) got so mad over frivilous lawsuits he decided to abandon the airplane market and left the dealers and distributors high and dry. Being the only American manufacturer with any serious market share catering to this small market, he was the only one that really has to defend himself against loseing all the company assets. Rotax, and Hirth of course do not have to worry about loseing anything because they have no assets in the USA that an American court could attach. ...Roger has a strong backround in aviation, from teaching A&P at a University until retirement...he is an EX DAR/AI ...and....he served in the navy as a S-2 crew chief on a carrier...the Yorktown if I remember right...but he was a lot younger then!!! He has a lot of parts and engines and will be able to keep these engines going for a very long time.Plus he has contracted to various vendors and is haveing many parts that are hard to get for the oldest engines made. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Mk II For Sale
Date: Sep 19, 2005
I just finished a website for my Mk II that is for sale. Let me know if there is any interest. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7ykbz/ Bob Bennethum ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 2SI engines
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Yes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > > so is this a good motor then ?? > Chuck > > > Chuck, > Don is right, that is a 690L-70 on that Challenger. It is 70hp and is > more > than enough for that bird, way more power than a 503. > 2SIs 50 hp model looks just like the 690 but is only two cylinder. > For parts and service call Roger at ZDE 618-584-3567. > > Denny Rowe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com> > To: > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2SI engines > > > > > > Good morning Ed. > > The C-IIcw I'm looking at has the 3 cylinder 2si on it with a 3 blade > > prop. > > I think it is 50hp+/-. It is a 3 carb, single ignition, water cooled > > engine. > > I think it should skoot pretty good. I think that the early model Cuyuna > > (2si's) (early 1980 - 1990) had major problems. I know of some that have > > flown the Cuyuna 377 for hundreds of hours with no problems. I know of > > others that never got off the ground. I know guys with Rotax 377 and 618 > > that have the same stories. But it is also like you said, pilot error > > causes > > the problems. > > Who is the supplier that you mention? I talked to the factory and they > > said > > "not even a screw or hose clamp"! There is even an announcement on the > 2si > > web site that says they will not support it as of 1990 something. He > would > > not even give me a general opinion of the engine from the moment I said > it > > was mounted on an air frame. > > Chuck > > > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "c b" <seedeebee(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 912 Exhaust on MKIII
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Hey All, My exhaust cracked nearly all the way around at the first bend after leaving one of the cylinders. I have decided to redesign the whole system, because this is not the first time. I checked with Rotax, Kolb, Spruce etc. Rotax makes a kit for $900 that you custom build for your airplane. The kit is the only thing I can find. It takes 3 months to ship from Germany. This seems too expensive and far too long to wait. Does anyone have any 912 exhaust system experience or advice? Thanks! Chris Banys MK III 912 Amphibian 10FR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 912 Exhaust on MKIII
Date: Sep 19, 2005
| My exhaust cracked nearly all the way around at the first bend after leaving | one of the cylinders. I have decided to redesign the whole system, because | this is not the first time. | Does anyone have any 912 exhaust system experience or advice? | Chris Banys Morning Chris/All: Went through a long struggle with exhaust systems for the 912 series engines over the last 11 years. Finally got a good system from Titan Aircraft a few years ago. It is not perfect, but is the best available that I know of. I believe they are selling for about $1,000.00 a copy, are made of stainless steel. I had the number 3 exhaust tube fail in the exhaust port on the outboard side of the extrusion that holds the tube in place. Was on a flight to Monument Valley when it broke between Santa Rosa and Albuquerque, NM. Found a gentleman to TIG weld it up for me. He did a great job and have been flying with it since the middle of last May. The week part of the Titan system, as with most 912 exhaust systems is the stub that is provided by Rotax and comes installed in the exhaust ports of the engines when new. I believe the extrusion/expansion in the stub is what helps weaken them, as this is where they usually break. The new systems are welded to the stubs. I will stick with the Titan system. Believe it is the best available. Don't want something that will degrade performance in any way. The Titan system is tuned for the engine. I looked up your N number and see that you are flying with Frank Reynen's old MKIII. Got yourself a good airplane and engine. Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N27SB(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Subject: Homecoming Earlybirds
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Dave, The practices you're discussing are your opinions, which may work for you, but don't promote them with language like "any instructor or professional pilot will tell you". As a longtime instructor and professional pilot, I would never tell someone that a certain glide path somehow 'works' for all aircraft. I especially teach 'power-off' landings in singles, and frequently practice single-engine approaches in twins. I see nothing wrong in using 'minimum-power' for approaches, but do see a problem with flying an ultralight in the same manner as 'jet fighters, jet airliners, light twins, Cessna 150's, gyro copters,'... (Have you in fact flown at least one of each type? Not to be harsh, but if not, how would you know?) The check-pilot is looking for a stabilized approach, which may be power-on. He'd be the first one to pull the power off in a single if he saw you were beyond a safe, power-off gliding distance from a suitable runway/landing site. I only use flaps (or landing gear) when needed, but don't 'drag' them around with power. Please don't invoke my (or others') credentials in lieu of your own in the future. Be safe. Ed in JXN (MI) MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit > > > Last post on this subject: > > Let's face it folks - we count on our engines every time we fly. I > suppose you can do a profile where you take off on a long enough runway, > where, if the engine quits you can either land straight ahead, or do an > abbreviated pattern. In the real world, you can try and maximize your > chances of finding a place to land if the engine quits, but there are > plenty of moments in every flight where a failure is going to result in a > landing that will bend the aircraft (and maybe you). The only cure for > this is to choose a reliable engine and maintain it. That's why John H. > likes his 912 so much. > > Making normal approaches with a 2 - 3 degree glide path and power on is > the preferred technique for light aircraft, and has been for a number of > years. An FAA check pilot is looking for a stabilized power-on approach. > The 2 - 3 degree glide path is even used in sailplanes. You establish the > approach angle with the proper airspeed, and modulate the spoilers and > pitch attitude to maintain the desired airspeed and glide path. You use > the spoilers like a throttle, and can spot a landing within a few feet of > where you desire. It's the same with jet fighters, jet airliners, light > twins, Cessna 150's, gyro copters, and any ultralight I've flown. In > fact, the only aircrart I've flown where it isn't the best technique is > hang gliders. No spoilers there, and every approach is power off. > > None of this relieves us from learning the skills of an engine out > approach. It just makes good sense to practice them so you have a > reasonable chance of surviving an unplanned landing. Again, in the real > world, my Firestar descends at 600 feet per minute with the engine off. > At 1,000 feet, there are 100 seconds to select a place to land, set up the > approach, and land - not very much time. Most of the time, our engines > are not so considerate, and like to quit at a couple of hundred feet right > after takeoff. How about 20 seconds or less from silence to touchdown? > Just enough time to lower the nose, maybe turn a few degrees one way or > other, grit your teeth, and flare. > > Point is, you can stack the odds in your favor, but you can't eliminate > the risk. If you are going to have any fun in this sport, you are not > going to spend every second of every flight worrying about the engine > quitting. You fly the aircraft using the techniques that have proven > successful over the years, and if the engine quits, you deal with it. > > Dave Bigelow > Kamuela, HI > FS2 503 DCDI > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: 912 advice
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Hey men...all you 912'ers...I have a general question about a 912 that has been sitting still since late 2001. IN a 2 stroke...a used engine sitting this long would be in jeporady of haveing rusty bearings ..now how about a 912?....specifically, a 912 80 hp....with 80 hours on it when it was parked inside and no real preventative maintainence done. Is a 912 built in 2000 or so early enough to have a bunch of AD's needed to make it comparable to todays?...were there any major production changes since then? How do I find out for certain how old it is?, as I have the serial number.looked on the web at Rotax site, but found nothing as to a serial number/production date ref. This engine is for sale on a Mk 3 airframe that looks pretty good and it is begining to interest me...arghhhh! The guy claims it was dealer built, but the dealer died in a crash since then so no one to talk to about it. Dealer was in ohio or penn or somewhere out there. Anybody have any clues? Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: 912 advice
Date: Sep 19, 2005
John, thx pard...got the n-number and looked it up...arghh...say It is a Firestar 1 single seat...built by Lakeland ultralights... contacted the seller...he says nope..it is definately a Mk3 and yes he can see the reg says firestar 1...but he has the airworthy cert and it says Mk3....he says the faa must have got it mixed up when they registered it.... \hmmm... probably wouldnt make a diff...but...N number says it is a single....that could be a big difference...arghh...paper work.... N80JL built by lakeLand ultralites. other planes built by lakeland include a coupl of mk 3s also...includeing N902JL anybody know who lakeland UL was/is? Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Flycrazy8(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Subject: Re: Second Chantz 'chute & Rotax engines
Hey Dave, The Rotax"s on the Jet Ski's and Snowmobiles is different from the 503's and 447's we fly on our Kolb's......Good Choice you made ! Without alot of modification you will find it hard to use anything else than the Cuyuna on the Ultrastar. Stephen Baxley former Ultrastar driver present Firefly driver From Dave Kulp saying : have a Cuyuna on my Ultrastar and am wondering if a Rotax is a Rotax, or is there a difference between those installed on, say, a snowmobile and an aircraft? I had an opportunity to buy a snowmobile Rotax but passed it up not knowing if it would be OK on my Ultrastar. I appreciate the input. Dave Kulp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Flycrazy8(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Subject: Re: Homecoming ?
IS Beauford going to be the guest entertainer at the Homecoming ?......I'd buy tickets to hear him.... : - )) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Subject: I'm looking for information on this Mk III
Greetings Kolb fans, Does anyone know the history or background on this Kolb MK III? http://tinyurl.com/c2drx Thanks, Will Uribe FireStar II N4GU El Paso, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: I'm looking for information on this Mk III
Date: Sep 19, 2005
What Kolb MK III is it. I recently did a back ground on one with N28JL on the tail. I was going to buy it. Chuck S Greetings Kolb fans, Does anyone know the history or background on this Kolb MK III? http://tinyurl.com/c2drx Thanks, Will Uribe FireStar II N4GU El Paso, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2005
From: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb Slingshot kit on eBay
Hey gang, saw this Slingshot kit for sale on ebay, i dont know what it would be worth, but with 45 minutes left to auction, bids are just at $2200 which sounds like a steal to me! Dont think there is an engine, but still... Go to ebay.com, type in the auction number in the search bar... Kolb Aircraft Slingshot * NIB * Ready to Build & FlyItem number: 4574602894 Mike Schnabel Firestar II 503 Manchester TN --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: I'm looking for information on this Mk III
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Wow, Looks just like the bird Kolb had in their original Mk-3 glossy sheet with Dennis S and the pretty passenger smiling wide, if that aint the bird, someone copied Homers paint and wing center section to a tee. Denny Rowe ----- Original Message ----- From: <WillUribe(at)aol.com> Subject: Kolb-List: I'm looking for information on this Mk III > > Greetings Kolb fans, > Does anyone know the history or background on this Kolb MK III? > > http://tinyurl.com/c2drx > > > Thanks, > Will Uribe > FireStar II N4GU > El Paso, TX > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 912 advice
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Don, JL in the N number stands for Jim Lee, he was the owner of Lakeland ultralights, a Kolb dealer on the border of Ohio and PA up North from me. As I recall Mr Lee built some very modified Kolbs with things like retractable gear on Full Lotus floats and also storage compartments in the wings. If memory serves me correctly, he was killed in a tragic accident at Sun and Fun when an oil line on his 912 broke and it caught fire in mid air. I never met the fellow as I did not yet own a Kolb at the time but had my heart set on a Mk-3. If Dennis S is reading the list, maybe he can correct any errors in memory I may have. Hope this helps. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > N80JL built by lakeLand ultralites. > other planes built by lakeland include a coupl of mk 3s also...includeing > N902JL > > anybody know who lakeland UL was/is? > > Don Gherardini > OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. > American Honda Engines > Power Equipment Company > CortLand, Illinois > 800-626-7326 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Stonex" <cstonex(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: 912 advice
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Jim Lee was Lakeland Ultralights. Chuck S Don, JL in the N number stands for Jim Lee, he was the owner of Lakeland ultralights, a Kolb dealer on the border of Ohio and PA up North from me. As I recall Mr Lee built some very modified Kolbs with things like retractable gear on Full Lotus floats and also storage compartments in the wings. If memory serves me correctly, he was killed in a tragic accident at Sun and Fun when an oil line on his 912 broke and it caught fire in mid air. I never met the fellow as I did not yet own a Kolb at the time but had my heart set on a Mk-3. If Dennis S is reading the list, maybe he can correct any errors in memory I may have. Hope this helps. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > N80JL built by lakeLand ultralites. > other planes built by lakeland include a coupl of mk 3s also...includeing > N902JL > > anybody know who lakeland UL was/is? > > Don Gherardini > OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. > American Honda Engines > Power Equipment Company > CortLand, Illinois > 800-626-7326 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Geo engine
At 10:28 PM 9/14/2005, you wrote: > > >George, > Maybe we could get Possum to lead us & we could be a real Florida >Gaggle. And if we got The Butcher Of Bradenton to bring up the rear, he >could make sure no one turned back for donuts. IS Beauford going to be the guest entertainer at the Homecoming ?......I'd buy tickets to hear him.... : - )) ------------------------- No - you don't understand , Beauford is kinda like the "Easter Bunny" or " Santa Clause" - clause he isn't real. I used to think he was, but ..... I was younger then. I'm not really invited to the shindig anyway - even though I've shown up about 3 times before - "the red headed step child" and all that stuff and was treated really nice, like everybody else - mostly because I think they were trying to figure out what the heck I was.. Anyway, the only thing I got left of my old firestar is the stick and the nose cone and maybe some hardware on the wings. But I still rebuilt the old "kolb" ribs in my new wings - new meaning 1999. You can't climb better that those flat bottomed things will do. You put VGs on the wings and you got an envelope of 27 mph stall to 80 mph on a trip if you set your warp drive right. http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net>
Subject: Re: 912 advice
Date: Sep 19, 2005
Denny, You have it pretty much correct. Many people get confused because the name of his business was Lakeland Ultralights and many thought it was in Lakeland Fl. But it was in Sharon PA. He did loose an oil line, but I didn't hear about the fire part. My understanding was that he had just taken off from a lake, noticed the oil loss and then stalled and spun attempting to do a low altitude180 back to the lake. He was probably distracted from his flying by the oil leak. Jim had significant resources he had owned several large businesses and flew a 210, as I recall. Anyway we had quite a few far ranging discussions over the years and one time he wanted to emphasize to me how if it ever came to having to ditch his airplane that he would do it without blinking - if this would increase his chance of survival - he was pointing to his 210 at the time. This was probably in the context of a discussion about how someone tried to save their plane and lost their life in the process. Anyway he expressed it something like this: "when I am flying, my airplane means nothing to me." Meaning that he would give no thought to saving the plane if it meant endangering his life. I believe he really meant it. It was very ironic because his accident gave every appearance of him having doing the opposite. I am not being critical of how he responded because I don't know what his choices might have been. I only mention this because I think we all have in mind what we think we would do under a given circumstance. But when the unsuspecting suddenly happens, and we have only a split second to do the right thing .... we are all very like to panic and do the wrong thing. Like the video of the QS pilot upon losing an engine, just pull back on the stick and hold it there. I have done that myself in an UltraStar and did the lawn dart routine from a low altitude. The airplane was not really a Mark-III - the fuselage was a Mark-III, but not much else. Jim really like the Titan wing construction and he had a guy working for him who had worked with Titan. Between Jim and Guy Truax (I think that was his name) they made a "titan" type wing for a Mark-III fuselage. I think it also had a modified tail. The airplane flew badly, in fact it flight characteristics were so poor, they he didn't let anyone else fly it. (Jim was pretty free with letting others fly his airplanes - but not this one.) I am guessing that had he been in a standard Mark-III, the outcome might have been different. His father lived in FL and Jim kept this airplane just for use when he was visiting in FL. Jim was also did much to develop floats for Kolb aircraft. I really enjoyed Jim, he was bright, articulate, had a great sense of humor and was passionate about airplanes and flying. His passing was a big loss to the aviation community. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 912 advice > > > Don, > JL in the N number stands for Jim Lee, he was the owner of Lakeland > ultralights, a Kolb dealer on the border of Ohio and PA up North from me. > As I recall Mr Lee built some very modified Kolbs with things like > retractable gear on Full Lotus floats and also storage compartments in the > wings. > If memory serves me correctly, he was killed in a tragic accident at Sun and > Fun when an oil line on his 912 broke and it caught fire in mid air. > I never met the fellow as I did not yet own a Kolb at the time but had my > heart set on a Mk-3. > If Dennis S is reading the list, maybe he can correct any errors in memory I > may have. > > Hope this helps. > Denny Rowe, Mk-3, N616DR, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA > > > > N80JL built by lakeLand ultralites. > > other planes built by lakeland include a coupl of mk 3s also...includeing > > N902JL > > > > anybody know who lakeland UL was/is? > > > > Don Gherardini > > OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. > > American Honda Engines > > Power Equipment Company > > CortLand, Illinois > > 800-626-7326 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2005
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Ed, There's plenty of room in flying for differing technique. However, there are basic parameters that have been proven to work very well over the years, and a power-on approach on a relatively standard glide path is one of them. I do believe you are teaching a dated method. Light single engine aircraft are expected to fly patterns at most busy airports in a manner where most of the pattern is not within gliding distance of the runway. A 2-3 degree glide path is not a shallow dragged in approach. I can't imagine an FAA inspector pulling the engine on someone flying a Cessna 172 at 1/2 mile when the plane is on the VASI. Would the plane make it to the threshold - probably not. Is the pilot flying a safe stabilized approach - yes he is. And yes, I've flown all those types of aircraft. My whole point in these posts is to share a lifetime of accident free experience. While there are many high time pilots on this list who don't need a bit of help, there are also quite few new and low time pilots who can profit from the accumulated knowledge of many aviators over many years. If you want to fly a dive at the ground, full flaps, idle approach, be my guest. There's not much room for error if you choose to do it that way. Get a little slow, or round out a bit high, and you will experience the "Kolb Kwit". Helps sell a lot of replacement gear legs. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, Hawaii FS2, 503 DCDI From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit Dave, The practices you're discussing are your opinions, which may work for you, but don't promote them with language like "any instructor or professional pilot will tell you". As a longtime instructor and professional pilot, I would never tell someone that a certain glide path somehow 'works' for all aircraft. I especially teach 'power-off' landings in singles, and frequently practice single-engine approaches in twins. I see nothing wrong in using 'minimum-power' for approaches, but do see a problem with flying an ultralight in the same manner as 'jet fighters, jet airliners, light twins, Cessna 150's, gyro copters,'... (Have you in fact flown at least one of each type? Not to be harsh, but if not, how would you know?) The check-pilot is looking for a stabilized approach, which may be power-on. He'd be the first one to pull the power off in a single if he saw you were beyond a safe, power-off gliding distance from a suitable runway/landing site. I only use flaps (or landing gear) when needed, but don't 'drag' them around with power. Please don't invoke my (or others') credentials in lieu of your own in the future. Be safe. Ed in JXN (MI) MkII/503" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2005
From: Mark Anliker <manliker(at)uiuc.edu>
Subject: Don G. - Prop size on Firefly
>From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop size//firefly >Hey Mark.. > >Did you Fly that Firefly prior to the 66x 30 with any other prop?...if so, >what size and tell me what the difference was in performance... >Don Gherardini Don, I used a 60" Ivo before. After 3 engine outs and 1 scored piston I decided to try something else. I never knew what was the correct pitch and number of blades to get a happy balance between getting adequate rpms and putting enough load on the engine to stabilize EGT's. Needed something more fool proof. During my second trip for engine work to Mark Smith's in Mt. Vernon, IN, I trailered the Fly (w/o wings) to allow an engine run-up following the engine work. After fiddling with the Ivo pitch settings and watching the gauges, his advice was to try a new prop. He didn't think the Ivo was putting enough load on the engine at higher rpms, resulting in high EGT's. We put the TN 66x30 on and noted an increase in prop blast (~thrust), better EGT's, and I liked the sound a lot better...more of a growl. Performance-wise, it seems to make more thrust while flying too. I don't usually see how fast I can go, but routinely cruise around at 55 mph at about 4500 rpm. Now maybe my max rpms are a little low (about 5750), but that's the trade off I'm living with presently. She still climbs like a homesick angel, and I haven't had an engine out or scored a piston in about 100 hrs, so that's where I'm at right now. I probably need to explore using more streamlined lift struts :-) (got an extra set?) before exploring how fast I can get mine to go. P.S. I'm looking at Powerfin props now too. Eventually would like to get those max rpms up and keep the thrust I have with the TN prop...always experimenting...gotta sell something else first though...know anyone looking for a used whitewater kayak? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2005
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Don G. - Prop size on Firefly
Your current setup is probably quite safe, but the engine is not making peak horsepower. If you are satisfied with that, good - you are not actually giving up as much as you think you are. As long as the engine readily accelerates up to it's maximum rpm with no bogging, moaning or hesitation at any place in the mid range, it's probably OK. Streamlining the lift struts will help, so will streamlining the landing gear struts. For an insight into the need for a good prop load on the engine, see http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm 2 blade props do sound better, don't they? Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > >From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net> > >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Prop size//firefly > >Hey Mark.. > > > >Did you Fly that Firefly prior to the 66x 30 with any other prop?...if so, > >what size and tell me what the difference was in performance... > >Don Gherardini > >Don, > >I used a 60" Ivo before. After 3 engine outs and 1 scored piston I decided >to try something else. I never knew what was the correct pitch and number >of blades to get a happy balance between getting adequate rpms and putting >enough load on the engine to stabilize EGT's. Needed something more fool >proof. During my second trip for engine work to Mark Smith's in Mt. Vernon, >IN, I trailered the Fly (w/o wings) to allow an engine run-up following the >engine work. After fiddling with the Ivo pitch settings and watching the >gauges, his advice was to try a new prop. He didn't think the Ivo was >putting enough load on the engine at higher rpms, resulting in high EGT's. >We put the TN 66x30 on and noted an increase in prop blast (~thrust), >better EGT's, and I liked the sound a lot better...more of a >growl. Performance-wise, it seems to make more thrust while flying too. I >don't usually see how fast I can go, but routinely cruise around at 55 mph >at about 4500 rpm. Now maybe my max rpms are a little low (about 5750), >but that's the trade off I'm living with presently. She still climbs like >a homesick angel, and I haven't had an engine out or scored a piston in >about 100 hrs, so that's where I'm at right now. I probably need to >explore using more streamlined lift struts :-) (got an extra set?) before >exploring how fast I can get mine to go. > >P.S. I'm looking at Powerfin props now too. Eventually would like to get >those max rpms up and keep the thrust I have with the TN prop...always >experimenting...gotta sell something else first though...know anyone >looking for a used whitewater kayak? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb Kwit
Thinking again about the video of the ultralight crash into the trees. Made three tests on my Kolb UltraStar, performing 180 degree turns after 'engine out' on take off. The idea was to get a 'no turn below this altitude' figure for safely returning to the runway. In climb attitude and speed, the throttle was suddenly closed and the nose quickly lowered to maintain 50 mph. Straight ahead for 5 seconds to get one's wits working, and a coordinated turn was begun, maintaining 50 mph. Turned 180 degrees and altimeter indicated 200 feet loss in altitude. Repeated three times with same results. Lesson learned for the UltraStar, don't do it under 300 feet, for a conservative, safe return. Otherwise, straight ahead or minor right or left turns. Can't say these figures hold for any other model Kolb. With a dead engine, no windmilling prop at idle speed, I could probably reduce my minimum altitude safely to 250 feet, as the glide is a little better under those conditions. UltraStar Tenn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Don G. - Prop size on Firefly
Date: Sep 20, 2005
Thx Mark, your experiences seem kinda similiar to me. I used a 60 inch 3 bladed IVO on both ther Cuyuna and the 447...but always had to fly with one eye on the EGT...performance was good I thought..but, the FireFly performance is alwqys good when compareing it to others. One day I discovered some crack/fracture line showing uop in one blade of the IVO..(Probably a result of it being bent over one time when it was upside down!)..anyway, I took one blade off and re-pitched it. With the little carpenters level i had in the box..I had the 3 blade set at 11 degrees, and was getting 6400rpms static...with 2 blades, I needed a tad better than 15 degrees to load it down to 6400. That is where it is now. To my suprise, it climbed noticably better and gained almost 10 mph on top end...Dont know if I understand exactly why, as using the load to hold the engine rpms seems the thrust would be the same...but of course pitch speed is different. Anyway, I havent questioned the results as I am pretty happy with it, but just looking at an IVO it does not look like it would be the most efficient blade, so I am always wondering if there still is some better performance numbers to be had!!! I would like more Rpms than you are getting...maybe a 64 x30 would be the ticket...or 63..or 62..or 61....arghh...cant afford all those!!!!!! Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Don G. - Prop size on Firefly
Date: Sep 20, 2005
Mark...Dont fool around with streamline plastic covers...just build a single strut for each side from streamlined tubing....I flew mine in all 3 configs...stock round tubes...streamlined covers...and single streamline tubeing struts...the singles make a world of diff, and are lighter. Look at my mod page and see how I did it....very easy. Don Gherardini FireFly 098 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Chmielewski" <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Kwit
Date: Sep 20, 2005
Lengthy post, delete as required... Dave, " There's plenty of room in flying for differing technique. (Snip) ... and a power-on approach on a relatively standard glide path is one of them. " Unfortunately, you've missed my point. The standard approach you speak of is fine for most GA aircraft, but that doesn't work - safely - for high-drag, low-inertia aircraft like ultralights. Judging by my recent mail, other UL pilots emphatically agree. " Light single engine aircraft are expected to fly patterns at most busy airports in a manner where most of the pattern is not within gliding distance of the runway." I think I've located the problem.... Most of the airports I've trained at are busy but most of the pilots, and especially the controllers, don't 'expect' such an unsafe operation. "I do believe you are teaching a dated method." Just trying to teach what's safe. Hadn't heard it went out of style. I see students 'in the pattern' on 2-mile finals in 150's and 172's constantly, because their instructors overstate the 'stabilized' mantra and lose sight of the big picture. I find it best to teach a little tighter approach at first, then widen out as needed. Almost impossible to retrain the guys who log X-C while in the pattern. "A 2-3 degree glide path is not a shallow dragged in approach." It is for an ultralight. "I can't imagine an FAA inspector pulling the engine on someone flying a Cessna 172 at 1/2 mile when the plane is on the VASI. Would the plane make it to the threshold - probably not." He could if it was my student. He'd be just turning in from base and didn't have full flaps yet, because the runway hadn't been 'made'. Still enough energy to raise the partial flaps and glide in 'clean'. Old, dated technique in one of my outmoded manuals somewhere. "And yes, I've flown all those types of aircraft." Very good, you're to be commended. I have no gyro time. Will it glide in dead-stick 2 miles from 800' AGL? "If you want to fly a dive at the ground, full flaps, idle approach, be my guest." Not what I said, so again please don't put words in my mouth. Depends on the aircraft. You should know a Boeing, Piper, Grob motorglider and Kolb all get flown differently. "...there are also quite few new and low time pilots who can profit from the accumulated knowledge of many aviators over many years." Well said. I hope they heed a consensus of the aviators here, but especially the high-time UL aviators who've had engine-outs and know whereof they speak. What works in a Boeing or Beechcraft doesn't necessarily work in a Kolb. Ed in JXN MkII/503 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Kwit > > > Ed, > > There's plenty of room in flying for differing technique. However, there > are basic parameters that have been proven to work very well over the > years, and a power-on approach on a relatively standard glide path is one > of them. I do believe you are teaching a dated method. Light single > engine aircraft are expected to fly patterns at most busy airports in a > manner where most of the pattern is not within gliding distance of the > runway. A 2-3 degree glide path is not a shallow dragged in approach. I > can't imagine an FAA inspector pulling the engine on someone flying a > Cessna 172 at 1/2 mile when the plane is on the VASI. Would the plane > make it to the threshold - probably not. Is the pilot flying a safe > stabilized approach - yes he is. > > And yes, I've flown all those types of aircraft. My whole point in these > posts is to share a lifetime of accident free experience. While there are > many high time pilots on this list who don't need a bit of help, there are > also quite few new and low time pilots who can profit from the accumulated > knowledge of many aviators over many years. If you want to fly a dive at > the ground, full flaps, idle approach, be my guest. There's not much room > for error if you choose to do it that way. Get a little slow, or round > out a bit high, and you will experience the "Kolb Kwit". Helps sell a lot > of replacement gear legs. > > Dave Bigelow > Kamuela, Hawaii > FS2, 503 DCDI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Gherardini" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Subject: Re: Flyin Driving Directions
Date: Sep 21, 2005
Doug, Lemme try this.. From Knoxville go north on 75 to London...at the main street that will goes uptown, (cant remember the name..maybe highway 80?) turn west an drive..several miles, look for a sign on the south side just before a going down a big ,big hill...this will be a small gravel lane...UPHILL...if you have bald tires..dont go there...when you get up this Hill ..or mountian, depending on where you are from, you will find the top of the mountian shaved off flat and the Kolb strip and hangars. I am sure there is a creek just west of the strip...but you cannot see it cause it is about 1/4 mile about straight down..if you ever got down there you would probably need a rope to get back! You cannot see the strip or any buildings from the highway...tall timber everywhere and you would never believe there is anywhere within 5 miles to land a chopper..let alone an airplane..so just trust the signs! IF you like chicken..this is the weekend to be there..some sort of World chicken fest going on when TNK has their flyin...Colonel Sanders was from there or something...Not to mention the and good food at Kolb...and awful good company. These people really know how to put on a good time. More homemade desserts than a church social, so bring your loose britches!! Motel space is thin around there, due to the chicken gig... If you cannot figure out which road goes west...just stop an ask...about everybody knows where it is. Don Gherardini OEM.Sales / Engineering dept. American Honda Engines Power Equipment Company CortLand, Illinois 800-626-7326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2005
From: guy truex <airbosss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland Ultralights back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member recently sent me a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland Ultralights, Jim Lee, his aircraft and his accident. Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland Ultralights. I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I didn't want to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or moderator, I will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb aircraft we built and how they were modified. -- Guy --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net>
Subject: Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
Date: Sep 21, 2005
Guy, I for one would like to hear more about the LA story. And what are Rick and Annette doing these days? And Paula, what is she doing, the girls Brittany and ____ I guess they are about grown by now. And what became of the amphib trike - I think it was a trike wasn't it that Jim displayed at SNF the last year? I think there was a pretty amazing story about a 2nd Chantz chute mishap. Funny, all I can remember is was an interesting story - but no details come to mind any more. Even as I was writing this, I am recalling a time when I was flying with Jim at Conneaut Lake. We landed and then went to take off. Well the TS just couldn't get its speed up. Jim looks around trying to figure out why it won't accelerate. Here it turns out the gear was down. On one of my visits, Jim prodded me in attempting to barefoot ski. I made several attempts, but didn't make it up. When I got home, my legs were almost one large bruise and I don't bruise easily. He took a video of my ackward attempts and big splashes and had some great laughs afterward. Yes ... please refresh my memory. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "guy truex" <airbosss(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee > > My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland Ultralights back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member recently sent me a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland Ultralights, Jim Lee, his aircraft and his accident. > > Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland Ultralights. I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I didn't want to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or moderator, I will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb aircraft we built and how they were modified. > > -- Guy > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2005
From: guy truex <airbosss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb MkIII - Lakeland Bush Plane
The accident aircraft was registered as a Kolb MkIII, but there really wasnt much Kolb left in that aircraft. Jim used to refer to the design as the Lakeland Bush Plane although the three that flew were registered as Kolb MkIIIs. History of the design: I went to work for Jim Lee in February of 1993. He had a Kolb Twinstar that he regularly flew. It had a Full Lotus mono-float and retractable gear that he had developed. He was happy with the way it performed and he wanted to produce an amphibious version of the Kolb. The Twinstar was no longer in production so the MkIII was a natural place to start. He had a gear system that worked well so all we had to do was fit it to the MkIII frame, make float mounts and make sponson mounts. Jim purchased MkIII kits. We modified the frames to accept the retract system and we installed his quick install/quick release float mounts. It was a good system that allowed a person to install or remove the Full Lotus mono-float in about 30 seconds. There was also a quick install/quick remove sponson mount that worked just as well. We would modify the MkIII kits and ship them to the builders. There were builders that wanted fast build kits, so we provided fast builds if requested. We also built a few complete planes. Jim had an optional fuel tank mount that allowed three 5 gallon tanks to be installed behind the seats. All three tanks had quick-disconnects and could be removed very easily through a door. That option was popular. Sometime during 1993, we built a complete MkIII for Jim. He wanted a luggage compartment up front, so we made a new nose section. We thought it looked like a shoe, but it served the purpose. When he was flying by himself, he could carry items up front and still have the CG well within limits. Jim flew a Titan one day and decided he liked the aluminum wings. The roll response was quick and positive and he liked that. We built a set of aluminum wings for Jims MkIII that used the Titan airfoil. The wings were strut braced just like any MkIII. Jim was very happy with the handling. Of course, after Jim had them, someone else wanted a set of aluminum wings. Jim also wanted more room inside (I think I remember a tall customer) so we built a fuselage that was two inches taller and built aluminum wings. Jim wanted to get the horizontal tail surfaces up and away from the water. I designed a tail with full flying horizontal stabilators mounted about a third of the way up a swept aluminum vertical stabilizer. We shortened up the tail boom, which is okay as long as there is enough tail volume. The purpose was to make the structure stiffer which would provide more positive feel and control. Jim and I had discussed the project quite a bit. We discussed the positive and negative aspects of all design considerations. One of the design requirements right from the beginning was that the aircraft had to have folding wings and it had to fit in an enclosed trailer. The folding wing fittings were standard Kolb, but the tail was completely different. We decided to make each stabilator removable. The stabilators slid onto a round steel center section spar that rotated in bearings. One bolt held each stabilator from sliding off the spar- great so far. I dont remember what the horizontal span was. The aspect ratio was in the normal range and it had plenty of area to provide stability and control authority. For some unknown reason, right before we flew the first one, Jim decided that he wanted the planes to go into the trailer without removing the stabilators. I shortened the stabilators and increased the chord to provide the area needed. One of the results of that change was the necessity to provide more stabilator travel. I was more than a little concerned about stalling the stabilators in flight. Jim wasnt. He and I were the design team, but he was the boss, so he made final decisions. We flew with the short span horizontals. Three of the four kits were completed by June of 1995. At that time I resigned and opened my own business. Jim and I parted on good terms. In a conversation with Jim after I was no longer employed at Lakeland, he told me that a Bush Plane owner complained to him about an abrupt loss of pitch control at low speed. The pilot was able to recover, but it scared him. I told Jim what I thought about the short horizontals, but wed had that conversation before. Im sure Jim listened to me, but he chose to fly the Bush Planes the way they were. The crash: We had a customer in Texas that had a Bush Plane. The owner/pilot also had an ATV. After I left Lakeland Ultralights, this guy crashed his ATV and ended up in the hospital for a long time. His wife called Jim and told him she didnt want her husband doing anything else dangerous. Jim bought the plane back from her. She had a person that was unfamiliar with airplanes tow the plane in an enclosed trailer to Pennsylvania. The guy didnt tie the plane down very well or didnt tie it at all and it sustained substantial damage during the trip. I visited Lakeland Ultralights in February or March of 1997 and saw Jims crew working on the damaged plane. It had been almost completely disassembled and it was going back together with many new parts. Jim took the plane to Sun n Fun in 1997. Thats where it was crashed. The accident report can be seen at: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X07776&ntsbno=MIA97LA120&akey=1 There were three other Bush Planes. One never flew. Parts from that kit were used to repair the accident aircraft after the trip from Texas. I was told by a reliable source that one was converted to use a stock Kolb MkIII tail. I dont know where the other one is or if it is even flying. If it is, it shouldnt be. My opinion is that the horizontal tail surface design is bad. The easiest fix at this time would be to install a stock Kolb tail. There were many Lakeland Ultralight modified Kolb MkIIIs built. I have flown them and I think they are as safe as any MkIII. The addition of the mono-float and retractable gear makes them feel a little heavier, but as long as the weight and balance is within limits, all should be okay. Dont worry about those. Its that one Bush Plane that needs attention. Ill post a few shorter stories about Jim and the fun we had as I think of them. -- Guy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 22, 2005
Subject: 503 DCDI EGT/CHT
I have read the recent posts about pitch, performance and EGT. My Firestar EGT with a 503 runs around 1,125 at about 4,900 rpm and cools to about 1,050 at full throttle at 6,400 rpm. Throttle response is smooth and it runs great at all rpm and has pleanty of power. I'm not sure at the moment about the CHT, but I think it is around 275-300 max, but don't quote me. I'm running a warp drive two-bladed prop and the needles are set at position 3. The plugs are a little dark indicating rich, but on the East coast it will be getting colder soon so I am going to leave them there for now. Am I in the ballpark and should I leave well enough alone, or should I tinker? Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. John Murr Firestar I have read the recent posts about pitch, performance and EGT. My Firestar EGT with a 503 runs around 1,125 at about 4,900 rpm and cools to about 1,050 at full throttle at 6,400 rpm. Throttle response is smooth and it runs great at all rpm and has pleanty of power. I'm not sure at the moment about the CHT, but I think it is around 275-300 max, but don't quote me. I'm running a warp drive two-bladed prop and the needles are set at position 3. The plugs are a little dark indicating rich, but on the East coast it will be getting colder soon so I am going to leavethem there for now. Am I in the ballpark and should Ileave well enough alone, or shouldI tinker? Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. John Murr Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2005
From: guy truex <airbosss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee
I talked to Rick and Annette about a year ago. They were working with Paula. I would guess the girls are grown up. My son was about their age and he's 23 and in the Army now. I read what you wrote and I started thinking of all the funny stuff that happened at the lake. One day Jim was on the lake in his Twinstar and he had someone go get the Firestar. The guy was about to touch down on the water and Jim noticed he didn't have the sponsons installed. Jim was yelling at the top of his lungs - SPONSONS. Of course the guy couldn't hear Jim, but he saw all the waving and yelling and at the same time he noticed there were no sponsons! He went back to the airport. One time Jim and Rick were flying the Twinstar (it had a 532- remember those?). It quit. They were over a golf course. There were golfers out there in the way, so Rick yells as loud as he can- FORE. They all looked up, saw the plane and ran. Jim and Rick landed. -- Guy Dennis Souder wrote: Guy, I for one would like to hear more about the LA story. And what are Rick and Annette doing these days? And Paula, what is she doing, the girls Brittany and ____ I guess they are about grown by now. And what became of the amphib trike - I think it was a trike wasn't it that Jim displayed at SNF the last year? I think there was a pretty amazing story about a 2nd Chantz chute mishap. Funny, all I can remember is was an interesting story - but no details come to mind any more. Even as I was writing this, I am recalling a time when I was flying with Jim at Conneaut Lake. We landed and then went to take off. Well the TS just couldn't get its speed up. Jim looks around trying to figure out why it won't accelerate. Here it turns out the gear was down. On one of my visits, Jim prodded me in attempting to barefoot ski. I made several attempts, but didn't make it up. When I got home, my legs were almost one large bruise and I don't bruise easily. He took a video of my ackward attempts and big splashes and had some great laughs afterward. Yes ... please refresh my memory. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "guy truex" Subject: Kolb-List: Former Lakeland Ultralight Employee > > My name is Guy Truex. I built many Kolbs when I worked at Lakeland Ultralights back in the early 90's. A friend and current Kolb list member recently sent me a copy of a discussion on this list about Lakeland Ultralights, Jim Lee, his aircraft and his accident. > > Last night I wrote several pages about some aircraft we built at Lakeland Ultralights. I intended to post it here today, but it's very long and I didn't want to make it my first post. With permission from the list owner or moderator, I will post it. It's basically a short history of the Kolb aircraft we built and how they were modified. > > -- Guy > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "skyrider2" <skyrider2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Flyin Driving Directions
Date: Sep 22, 2005
Hi guys, My thanks to all who responded. I think that even I will be able to find the factory now !!! See ya'll Friday evening....... Thanks again, Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: 503 DCDI EGT/CHT
Date: Sep 22, 2005
John, Sounds just about perfect to me. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, Leechburg PA ----- Original Message ----- From: <jdmurr(at)juno.com> Subject: Kolb-List: 503 DCDI EGT/CHT > > I have read the recent posts about pitch, performance and EGT. > My Firestar EGT with a 503 runs around 1,125 at about 4,900 rpm and cools > to about 1,050 at full throttle at 6,400 rpm. Throttle response is smooth > and it runs great at all rpm and has pleanty of power. I'm not sure at > the moment about the CHT, but I think it is around 275-300 max, but don't > quote me. I'm running a warp drive two-bladed prop and the needles are > set at position 3. The plugs are a little dark indicating rich, but on > the East coast it will be getting colder soon so I am going to leave them > there for now. > Am I in the ballpark and should I leave well enough alone, or should I > tinker? > Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > John Murr > Firestar > > > I have read the recent posts about pitch, performance and EGT. > > > My Firestar EGT with a 503 runs around 1,125 at about 4,900 rpm and cools > to about 1,050 at full throttle at 6,400 rpm. Throttle response is smooth > and it runs great at all rpm and has pleanty of power. I'm not sure at the > moment about the CHT, but I think it is around 275-300 max, but don't > quote me. I'm running a warp drive two-bladed prop and the needles are set > at position 3. The plugs are a little dark indicating rich, but on the > East coast it will be getting colder soon so I am going to leavethem there > for now. > > > Am I in the ballpark and should Ileave well enough alone, or shouldI > tinker? > > > Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > John Murr > Firestar > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kolb kwit
Not everything the FAA teaches fits flying small aircraft. Here's a link to an article about pattern work on the 'members only' section of the EAA web site. http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/050922_insurance.html In my opinion, a 3 degree approach is designed to keep you alive while flying an approach 'blind' in instrument conditions. Everything is a tradeoff, & in instrument conditions, you are more likely to die from loss of control than engine failure. Again, in my opinion (and the opinion of my flight instructor), in VFR conditions there is no reason to risk crashing by flying an approach that guarantees not making the runway if you have an engine failure. Every landing I made while training for my private ticket was made with engine at idle abeam the numbers. I was chastised mightily if I had to add power to make the runway, & chastised somewhat less severely if I overshot the numbers. A few minutes of 'compensating' instruction so I'd know what the examiner expected just prior to the check ride, then back to safe operation. Fifteen years later, I confess that whenever I fly with someone trained to 'FAA standards' I reach my highest levels of fear from pattern entry to touchdown on the runway, because I *know* we won't make the runway if the engine quits. FWIW, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb Homecomming
Date: Sep 23, 2005
west of London, east of Somerset and south of Paris.>> Make that north west of Paris and I will be there. While we are on geography has anyone downloaded `Google Earth`. This is the most amazing program showing the entire globe with the facility to zoom in really tight anywhere in the world. Nelsons Column from 1000ft, Golden Gate Bridge close enough to see individual cars, Sydney Opera House , I even found the field I fly from. The download costs nothing and will give hours of innocent fun. Have go at it. Cheers Pat -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <eugenezimmerman(at)dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb kwit
Date: Sep 23, 2005
On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:16 PM, Charlie England wrote: > I reach my highest levels of fear from pattern entry > to touchdown on the runway, because I *know* we won't make the > runway if > the engine quits. Does this mean 99.9% of your air time is at the highest level of fear because if your engine quits you would not make the runway. My highest level of fear of the 2 stroke engine quitting is when my engine is at idle. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2005
From: dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Middle part end
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Date: Sep 23, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb kwit
Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > >On Sep 22, 2005, at 11:16 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > > >> I reach my highest levels of fear from pattern entry >>to touchdown on the runway, because I *know* we won't make the >>runway if >>the engine quits. >> >> > > >Does this mean 99.9% of your air time is at the highest level of >fear because if your engine quits you would not make the runway. > >My highest level of fear of the 2 stroke engine quitting is when my >engine is at idle. > It means that when flying a larger (non ultralite-type) a/c, most flying is done at much higher than pattern altitude & at normal cruise power settings. In every situation except fire, altitude provides options. I've had a Lyc quit at 200 ft & a 1/2 mile out while dragging it in following another plane on an 'FAA approved' glideslope. Pretty strong reinforcement of the lessons learned as a student. My fear behind a Lyc or Cont is pretty much the same as your fear behind (in front of?) a 2stroke: Reduced power setting is the time of highest discomfort & combining that with being at 600 ft 2 miles from the runway at 1/2 throttle or less is really stressful. My personal preference (& the way I was trained) is to fly every pattern (close to the ground with no real options) as if I had no engine. That way, on the day I find myself without an engine, it's just another landing. I don't just ignore FAA guidelines, but evaluating them for reasonableness in specific situations makes sense to me. Many regs & procedures, especially today, are geared to the needs & requirements of air carriers with no consideration given to smaller a/c. Again, FWIW, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Cooper Mini engine
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Hi group, A while back I recall hearing something about someone using the engine from a Cooper Mini in an aircraft. I looked under the hood of one the other day and it got me to wondering if this is a popular conversion engine. Its a very small inline four cylinder that puts out 100hp. Anyone hear anything about these used in aviation? Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Mallory" <wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: elevavor trim
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Hello All, I have a trim question. I was having a problem with my Firestar II wanting to dive and bank left. Thanks to some great advice from Richard Pike, I solved the problem with the heavy forward stick by adjusting the aileron control rods. The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Love "The List", Learn more every day. Chris Mallory ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. Works great. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than usual. Through the years I have learned that it is easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut at two points equally spaced along the length. It is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a time, even with fairly stiff material. In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it completely. What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone advise me how to make and install one? Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. Works great. Howard Shackleford FS II SC --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: Al Colloredo <alfi98596(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al --- ray anderson wrote: > > > Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one > has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than > usual. Through the years I have learned that it is > easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point > while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I > usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, > with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut > at two points equally spaced along the length. It > is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a > time, even with fairly stiff material. > > HShack(at)aol.com wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted > by: HShack(at)aol.com > > In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > The problem that remains is the plane wanting to > bank left, I > have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem > is not severe but > annoying at least. > I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder > input doesn't correct it > completely. > What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the > solution, could anyone > advise me how to make and install one? > > > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near > the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as > necessary om the plane.. Works > great. > > Howard Shackleford > FS II > SC > > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > relief effort. > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
Al, Trim tabs don't seem to be critical in size. I have an aileron trim on my UltraStar and it is about 4" long and about 1-1/2" wide. Ray Al Colloredo wrote: What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al --- ray anderson wrote: > > > Just another thought about trim tabs. Sometimes one > has to use one that is perhaps a little longer than > usual. Through the years I have learned that it is > easy to pull the tab loose from its attach point > while trying to bend it along it's entire length. I > usually cut through the width, up to the bend point, > with a hacksaw blade. If a very long tab I will cut > at two points equally spaced along the length. It > is quite easy then to bend the segments one at a > time, even with fairly stiff material. > > HShack(at)aol.com wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted > by: HShack(at)aol.com > > In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:24:10 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com writes: > The problem that remains is the plane wanting to > bank left, I > have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem > is not severe but > annoying at least. > I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder > input doesn't correct it > completely. > What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the > solution, could anyone > advise me how to make and install one? > > > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near > the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as > necessary om the plane.. Works > great. > > Howard Shackleford > FS II > SC > > > > --------------------------------- > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > relief effort. > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Cooper Mini engine
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Bob, The engine has a cast bottom end and aluminum heads, their web page says its 104 Kg, I am looking for a conversion table now. Denny Also don't know what all is included in that figure. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
From: pengy(at)humboldt.net
OK. I've now got a grand total of 17 dual hours in a Kolb Mk III. I can fly it, but landings are still iffy... So don't vamp on me too hard. I have been a life-long model builder (free flight, control line, rc), and I certainly know that trim tabs work. But they are often a kludge - covering up (as it were) a problem that could perhaps (I'm being careful here) be solved more elegantly. For example, in the present case under review, we have a aircraft with a slight left bank. Or course an aileron trim tab will solve the problem, but *why* the slight left bank? Alignment? Drooped left aileron? Heavy left wing? Maybe adding a bit of weight to the right wing would correct the problem without adding the additional drag of the tab. Again, I know tabs work and are very effective. They are also relatively easy and cheap to implement. Maybe (I'm suggesting) they are TOO cheap and easy to implement, and allow us to avoid trying to understand just why this darn airplane has this peculiar trait (whatever it is), and work up a more permanent and elegant solution than another piece of metal adding drag to correct the problem. Fire away. (I actually made a couple of decent landings today, feeling cockey...;-) Penguin > Put a tab on the bottom of the right aileron. Near the middle [spanwise]. > Bend it down. Make it thin enough to bend as necessary om the plane.. > Works great. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: Cooper Mini engine
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Bob others, OK scratch that engine from our list, 104 Kg equals 229.3 pounds. Ouch Thats a heavy little bugger. Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
For some unknown reason, it seems all Kolbs with props that turn clockwise want to bank to the left and yaw to the right. I think it has something to do with the Coriolis Effect or maybe Sunspots.... Beauford should be able to give you a proper explanation... Anyway, trim tabs are a simple solution. Here are pictures of mine. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm I need to update the web page, because there have been some upgrades: For the aileron trim tab, I now have RC airplane nylon hinges at either end of the trim tab so that when I move the adjuster rod, the tab doesn't bend, it hinges. I used large RC model airplane hinges, plenty tough for the application. I initially made my rudder trim tab a bit too large. Trimmed it down a bit top and bottom with metal snips. Now it tracks straight with no rudder pressure. Once you get the rudder and ailerons tabs set pretty close, it will get closer to flying hands off. But it will not fly hands off unless it has a lot more dihedral than standard. Our Firestar II N582EF will fly hands off, but it has about 5" of dihedral per wing, way more than standard. My MKIII has a bit more dihedral than standard, and it helps, but it will not fly hands off. Almost, but not quite. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >Hello All, >I have a trim question. I was having a problem with my Firestar II wanting >to dive and bank left. Thanks to some great advice from Richard Pike, I >solved the problem with the heavy forward stick by adjusting the aileron >control rods. The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I >have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but >annoying at least. >I don't believe it to be a rudder problem as rudder input doesn't correct it >completely. >What about an elevator trim tab? If that may be the solution, could anyone >advise me how to make and install one? > >Love "The List", Learn more every day. >Chris Mallory > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2005
Subject: Re: elevavor trim
In a message dated 9/24/2005 4:45:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, alfi98596(at)yahoo.com writes: What size trim tab works the best. Lenght? / Width ? Thanks Al Make it wide enough to be able to rivet to two adjacent aileron "ribs". Make it about 4" deep & bend it length-wise in the middle. Start with maybe a 20 degree bend. Bottom of the right aileron. Howard Shackleford FS II SC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2005
From: "David L. Bigelow" <dlbigelow(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: elevator trim
I agree with Richard. Simple trim tabs on the rudder and aileron, plus dihedral go a long way towards making the FS a great pleasure to fly. I believe the need for lateral trim is because it is very difficult to get both wings rigged exactly the same - doesn't take much difference to build in a turn. Another thing that made a world of difference with my FS is vortex generators. They dropped the stall to 30 mph and the plane feels rock solid throughout the flying envelope. Dave Bigelow Kamuela, Hawaii FS2, 503 DCDI For some unknown reason, it seems all Kolbs with props that turn clockwise want to bank to the left and yaw to the right. I think it has something to do with the Coriolis Effect or maybe Sunspots.... Beauford should be able to give you a proper explanation... Anyway, trim tabs are a simple solution. Here are pictures of mine. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm I need to update the web page, because there have been some upgrades: For the aileron trim tab, I now have RC airplane nylon hinges at either end of the trim tab so that when I move the adjuster rod, the tab doesn't bend, it hinges. I used large RC model airplane hinges, plenty tough for the application. I initially made my rudder trim tab a bit too large. Trimmed it down a bit top and bottom with metal snips. Now it tracks straight with no rudder pressure. Once you get the rudder and ailerons tabs set pretty close, it will get closer to flying hands off. But it will not fly hands off unless it has a lot more dihedral than standard. Our Firestar II N582EF will fly hands off, but it has about 5" of dihedral per wing, way more than standard. My MKIII has a bit more dihedral than standard, and it helps, but it will not fly hands off. Almost, but not quite. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob and Jenn B" <tabberdd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Mk II Gross Weight
Date: Sep 25, 2005
Does anyone know what the limiting factor is in the 750 lb gross weight of the Mk II? Was it structural with the 5" spar or was it because of the performance? For example, the Mk III is listed at 850 or 1050. That means structurally it's fine but engine choice dictates the gross. I know people have flow well above the 750, but is 800 or 850 safe? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2005
Subject: Kolb roll
-- Richard Pike wrote: "For some unknown reason, it seems all Kolbs with props that turn clockwise want to bank to the left and yaw to the right. I think it has something to do with the Coriolis Effect or maybe Sunspots.... Beauford should be able to give you a proper explanation..." Ralph writes: If nobody has answered this, it's due to the clockwise tornado of air hitting the right side of the stabilizer, veering the plane to the right. There is a way to counteract this force without using left rudder or any trim tab. During a hard landing years ago, the nose of my plane was shifted slightly to the left. The front part of the cage actually got shifted. It's hard to detect even by looking at it straight on from the front, but it's enough to counteract the yawing to the right and having to use left rudder in cruise. I don't recommend shifting the nose around to achieve straight flight, but it does work. Ralph Original Firestar 18 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George T. Alexander, Jr." <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Subject: Web Site - Fly In at Homer Kolb's
Date: Sep 25, 2005
Kolb List: Finally, after a little over 3 months, the web site covering the fly in at Homer's place Fathers' Day Weekend has been published. My personal thanks, and I'm I speak for all the people who attended, to Clara, Homer, their son Marcus and his family, and the friends and neighbors who pitched in to make it a memorable day. Also thanks to Terry Frantz for his efforts in coordinating between the Kolbs and the participants. Since there was such a positive response to the one from last year, I decided to incorporate both year's material into one site. I hope it is understandable as to how to maneuver your way around the site. Go to http://gtalexander.home.att.net and click on the link "NE Kolb Builder/Flyer/Admirer Gathering" to take you to the site. I would welcome any comments that you might have. George Alexander ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Date: Sep 25, 2005
| Richard and others, the right yaw (not actually roll), is due to the tornado of swirling air, from the prop, hitting the right side of the vertical stabilizer. | | Ralph Ralph/All: Does this have an effect on the rudder? john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Conversion Tables
Date: Sep 25, 2005
With thought to the kilograms/pounds conversion topic earlier, I've been using a simple program for years now that is a free download and works very well for many kinds of conversions, such as weight, (mass) volume, area, etc. Take a look at http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/ and see what you think. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 26, 2005
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
-- "John Hauck" wrote: | Richard and others, the right yaw (not actually roll), is due to the tornado of swirling air, from the prop, hitting the right side of the vertical stabilizer. | | Ralph Ralph/All: Does this have an effect on the rudder? john h MKIII/912ULS John and others, I'm sure it pushes the rudder over (to the right) and I should have mentioned that too. It's a combination of both the vertical stab and rudder. Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll
Date: Sep 26, 2005
| Is it possible that the reason I had to correct for a heavy left wing | is that I sit on that side? | -BB Morning Bob/Gang: I bet that and rigging have a lot to do with roll problems. When I think of all the varibles and possibilities of building and rigging a Kolb just a little bit off, it is not hard for me to understand trim problems. However, I chose to fly my MKIII from the right seat because I had a good idea the Factory MKIII hard a left roll problem that required my hand and knee to support the stick on cross country flights. Local flying was no problem. Also the 582 may have added to the problem because of the torque factor, the clock-wise rotation of the prop. Seemed when I had a passenger in the right seat of the factory MKIII, I did not have a left roll problem. My 582 powered MKIII did not have a roll problem with pilot in the right seat. Then I repowered with a 912 that rotated counter-clock-wise. Ooops! Thought I was in trouble, but she flew fine anyhow. At times, I do have a slight tendancy to wander right a little, but at other times it might favor a slight left roll tendancy. I experienced that on this past weeks flight to the Kolb Homecoming. Reference trim tabs, I see not problem using them. They certainly do not indicate the builder/flyer is lazy and taking a shortcut. One of many methods of trimming a good airplane that is now in use and has been for a long time. Take care, john h MKIII/912S ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Date: Sep 26, 2005
| I'm sure it pushes the rudder over (to the right) and I should have mentioned that too. It's a combination of both the vertical stab and rudder. | | Ralph Morning Ralph B/Gang: Let me see if I have this right. Prop wash hitting the right side of the vertical stabilizer, in turn yaws the nose right? Seems to me if the the prop wash was pushing on the rudder the same direction as the vertical stabilizer, the rudder being a big trim tab pushed to the right would counter act the vertical stabilizer. Confusing, ain't it? Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll
Date: Sep 26, 2005
There are many ways to correct minor rigging and torque issues that cause our planes to roil one way or another. You might consider trying the adjustable wing attach fitting. I just purchased one from the factory while at Homecoming. It replaces one of the universal joint fittings where the rear part of the wing attaches to the cage. It's supplied with a bunch of washers and you move them around till the plane flies without roll. It will take a bit of trial and error to get it right but it is much better than adding draggy trim tabs or degrading performance by adding weight. If you can fix roll issues by moving weight that's also fine but I like flying from the left and I don't have brake peddles on the right. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: re:kolb roll > > | Is it possible that the reason I had to correct for a heavy left > wing > | is that I sit on that side? | -BB > > > Morning Bob/Gang: > > I bet that and rigging have a lot to do with roll problems. > > When I think of all the varibles and possibilities of building and > rigging a Kolb just a little bit off, it is not hard for me to > understand trim problems. However, I chose to fly my MKIII from the > right seat because I had a good idea the Factory MKIII hard a left > roll problem that required my hand and knee to support the stick on > cross country flights. Local flying was no problem. Also the 582 may > have added to the problem because of the torque factor, the clock-wise > rotation of the prop. Seemed when I had a passenger in the right > seat of the factory MKIII, I did not have a left roll problem. > > My 582 powered MKIII did not have a roll problem with pilot in the > right seat. Then I repowered with a 912 that rotated > counter-clock-wise. Ooops! Thought I was in trouble, but she flew > fine anyhow. At times, I do have a slight tendancy to wander right a > little, but at other times it might favor a slight left roll tendancy. > I experienced that on this past weeks flight to the Kolb Homecoming. > > Reference trim tabs, I see not problem using them. They certainly do > not indicate the builder/flyer is lazy and taking a shortcut. One of > many methods of trimming a good airplane that is now in use and has > been for a long time. > > Take care, > > john h > MKIII/912S > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll/Adverse Yaw
Date: Sep 26, 2005
| adding draggy trim tabs | | Rick Neilsen Rick N/Gang: See ya got home ok. Any idea how to overcome adverse yaw using other than trim tab on Kolbs? I don't necessarily like that huge rudder trim tab on my airplane, but it is the only solution I could find that worked. I tried off setting thrust line, off setting leading edge of vertical stabalizer, but only the trim tab will work for me. john h ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll/Adverse Yaw
Aren't we over reacting a bit to think that a tiny trim tab will add significant drag on 'dirty' airplanes like Kolbs and most light aircraft? | adding draggy trim tabs | | Rick Neilsen Rick N/Gang: See ya got home ok. Any idea how to overcome adverse yaw using other than trim tab on Kolbs? I don't necessarily like that huge rudder trim tab on my airplane, but it is the only solution I could find that worked. I tried off setting thrust line, off setting leading edge of vertical stabalizer, but only the trim tab will work for me. john h --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll
Date: Sep 26, 2005
You make a good point here, Rick. My 16' boat has an off-center center console, (no, I didn't build it) which causes it to tip to the right a little while running. The previous owner (who DID build it) added manually adjustable trim tabs to the transom in an effort to help other problems, which I solved separately without using the trim tabs. So, OK, the point is, I used the right trim tab recently to level the boat at speed. It took quite a bit of down trim - I'd guess 6 or 8 degrees - to trim the boat level..........and I lost 8 mph in top speed, and 6 mph in cruise speed. (Mike S. - I finally figured THAT out this weekend in Mexico, talking to a Striper 22 owner) Yup, there's lotsa drag in trim tabs, and that would make a good case for trying alternates such as the adjustable attach fittings and engine mount shims mentioned below, or the "off-center" nose mentioned yesterday. The trim tabs work, and work fine, but this is also food for thought. Lar. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: re:kolb roll > > > There are many ways to correct minor rigging and torque issues that cause > our planes to roil one way or another. You might consider trying the > adjustable wing attach fitting. I just purchased one from the factory > while > at Homecoming. It replaces one of the universal joint fittings where the > rear part of the wing attaches to the cage. It's supplied with a bunch of > washers and you move them around till the plane flies without roll. It > will > take a bit of trial and error to get it right but it is much better than > adding draggy trim tabs or degrading performance by adding weight. If you > can fix roll issues by moving weight that's also fine but I like flying > from > the left and I don't have brake peddles on the right. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW powered MKIIIc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> > To: > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: re:kolb roll > > >> >> | Is it possible that the reason I had to correct for a heavy left >> wing >> | is that I sit on that side? | -BB >> >> >> Morning Bob/Gang: >> >> I bet that and rigging have a lot to do with roll problems. >> >> When I think of all the varibles and possibilities of building and >> rigging a Kolb just a little bit off, it is not hard for me to >> understand trim problems. However, I chose to fly my MKIII from the >> right seat because I had a good idea the Factory MKIII hard a left >> roll problem that required my hand and knee to support the stick on >> cross country flights. Local flying was no problem. Also the 582 may >> have added to the problem because of the torque factor, the clock-wise >> rotation of the prop. Seemed when I had a passenger in the right >> seat of the factory MKIII, I did not have a left roll problem. >> >> My 582 powered MKIII did not have a roll problem with pilot in the >> right seat. Then I repowered with a 912 that rotated >> counter-clock-wise. Ooops! Thought I was in trouble, but she flew >> fine anyhow. At times, I do have a slight tendancy to wander right a >> little, but at other times it might favor a slight left roll tendancy. >> I experienced that on this past weeks flight to the Kolb Homecoming. >> >> Reference trim tabs, I see not problem using them. They certainly do >> not indicate the builder/flyer is lazy and taking a shortcut. One of >> many methods of trimming a good airplane that is now in use and has >> been for a long time. >> >> Take care, >> >> john h >> MKIII/912S >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Aileron Trim
Date: Sep 26, 2005
<< ... in the present case under review, we have a aircraft with a slight left bank. Or course an aileron trim tab will solve the problem, but *why* the slight left bank? ... work up a more permanent and elegant solution than another piece of metal adding drag to correct the problem. >> Penguin, and Kolbers - From what I've gathered over the years, listening to what many Kolb pilots have reported, most Kolbs (esp. the Mark-III) tend to bank left ... more so when flown solo. I addressed this problem in my Mark-IIIC using the "John Hauck bungee" method of aileron trim. So far, works great on my Kolb. New Kolb has recognized this left banking trait, and now privides a solution. You can purchase a modified swivel u-joint that bolts to the cage at the point where the existing wing fold fitting is currently. Using washers for spacers, the new fitting provides vertical adjustment for that wing, effectively allowing you to dial in roll trim. $65.00 each. I may get this. Dennis Kirby MArk-III, 912UL, Powerfin-70 in Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Trim
Don't mean to be argumentive but it seems to me, raising the edge of the entire wing will create more drag than a 4-5 inch strip of aluminum as a trim tab. $65.00 vs one penny. Lot less work installing and adjusting too. Aircraft, sophisticated and simple, have used small trim tabs since Orville and Wilbur. Sophisticated do use cockpit adjustible but you too can do that easily. << ... in the present case under review, we have a aircraft with a slight left bank. Or course an aileron trim tab will solve the problem, but *why* the slight left bank? ... work up a more permanent and elegant solution than another piece of metal adding drag to correct the problem. >> Penguin, and Kolbers - From what I've gathered over the years, listening to what many Kolb pilots have reported, most Kolbs (esp. the Mark-III) tend to bank left ... more so when flown solo. I addressed this problem in my Mark-IIIC using the "John Hauck bungee" method of aileron trim. So far, works great on my Kolb. New Kolb has recognized this left banking trait, and now privides a solution. You can purchase a modified swivel u-joint that bolts to the cage at the point where the existing wing fold fitting is currently. Using washers for spacers, the new fitting provides vertical adjustment for that wing, effectively allowing you to dial in roll trim. $65.00 each. I may get this. Dennis Kirby MArk-III, 912UL, Powerfin-70 in Cedar Crest, NM --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WillUribe(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2005
Subject: Tail wire brace size
Greetings Kolb fans, I'm getting ready to replace the wire bracing on my tail because the cable tangs are starting the wear into the thimbles. This morning before I departed for Kansas City I looked at my drawings and they call for a 3/32" stainless steel cable. The question I have is it 3/32" 7X7 or 3/32"7X19 stainless steel cable? Also, as long as I'm placing an order I will replace the muffler springs but does the FireStar use the 72 mm or the 66 mm springs? Thanks in advance, Will Uribe El Paso, TX but working in Kansas City FireStar II N4GU C172 N2506U ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gherkins Tim-rp3420 <rp3420(at)freescale.com>
Subject: Tail wire brace size
Date: Sep 26, 2005
Will, Good to hear from you. You want to get the 7X19 as it is easier to take a bend around the small cable thimble. The 7X7 is much stiffer and will find it difficult to make the bend around a 3/32" thimble radius. I can't help you on the springs, I don't know. When do you visit the Phoenix area again? Tim Gherkins Firestar II -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of WillUribe(at)aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Tail wire brace size Greetings Kolb fans, I'm getting ready to replace the wire bracing on my tail because the cable tangs are starting the wear into the thimbles. This morning before I departed for Kansas City I looked at my drawings and they call for a 3/32" stainless steel cable. The question I have is it 3/32" 7X7 or 3/32"7X19 stainless steel cable? Also, as long as I'm placing an order I will replace the muffler springs but does the FireStar use the 72 mm or the 66 mm springs? Thanks in advance, Will Uribe El Paso, TX but working in Kansas City FireStar II N4GU C172 N2506U ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: re:kolb roll/Adverse Yaw
At 10:09 AM 9/26/2005, you wrote: > >Any idea how to overcome adverse yaw using other than trim tab on >Kolbs? > >I don't necessarily like that huge rudder trim tab on my airplane, but >it is the only solution I could find that worked. I tried off setting >thrust line, off setting leading edge of vertical stabalizer, but only >the trim tab will work for me. > >john h I tried to leave some adjustment "right & left" for the vertical stabilizer and up and down for the horizontal. Horizontal worked. Right and left "vertical adjustment" didn't do anything. Don't know why. Trim tab on the rudder fixed it for me. http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Adjstabil.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Tail wire brace size
> >I'm getting ready to replace the wire bracing on my tail because the cable >tangs are starting the wear into the thimbles. This morning before >I departed >for Kansas City I looked at my drawings and they call for a 3/32" stainless >steel cable. The question I have is it 3/32" 7X7 or 3/32"7X19 >stainless steel >cable? > >Also, as long as I'm placing an order I will replace the muffler springs but >does the FireStar use the 72 mm or the 66 mm springs? > >Thanks in advance, >Will Uribe You mightlook into machine swaged tail ires with 1/2 turnbuckel swaged into the ends since you already know the lengths on yours. They are adjustable about an inch or 3/4 inch per wire. Lot of AP have a swage machine. http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/Modtail&swagedwires.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wire brace size
Date: Sep 26, 2005
Before you go replacing the wires making them the same as you did before make them a bit shorter and now use a clevis to hold each cable to the tang. The tangs remains permanently bolted on the tail post. When unfolding the tail it is a lot easier to add a bolt and wing nut to the individual cable wires than that one bastard that goes through the tail post and holds both wires on. Your tail wires will also be a lot tighter. I use (used) this method on mine and am (was) quite pleased with it. When you place your order include 2 AN3 clevises (little horseshoe shaped thingies) and AN bolts and wingnuts and safety pins for it. > Greetings Kolb fans, > > I'm getting ready to replace the wire bracing on my tail because the cable > tangs are starting the wear into the thimbles. This morning before I departed > for Kansas City I looked at my drawings and they call for a 3/32" stainless > steel cable. The question I have is it 3/32" 7X7 or 3/32"7X19 stainless steel > cable? > > Also, as long as I'm placing an order I will replace the muffler springs but > does the FireStar use the 72 mm or the 66 mm springs? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jdmurr(at)juno.com" <jdmurr(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2005
Subject: Firestar weight and balance info needed
I had purchased a 1987 Firestar and have been flying it for two months now. I have not done a weight and balance on it because I weigh 25 pounds more than the previous owner did. I do notice that at cruise and to a lesser degree at idle, I need to keep my stick "bungeed" to keep back stick pressure to keep the nose from falling. I looked through the documentation and I can't find anything on how to check the weight and balance. Does anyone have documentation needed for this? Moments, etc? I think I'm nose-heavy, but I don't want to assume this. Where is the CG range on the 1987 Firestar? Thanks! John Murr 1987 Firestar I had purchased a 1987 Firestar and have been flying it for two months now. I have not done a weight and balance on it because I weigh 25 pounds more than the previous owner did. I do notice that at cruise and to a lesser degree at idle, I need to keep my stick "bungeed" to keep back stick pressure to keep the nose from falling. I looked through the documentation and I can't find anything on how to check the weight and balance. Does anyone have documentation needed for this?Moments, etc?I think I'm nose-heavy, but I don't want to assume this. Where is the CG range on the 1987 Firestar? Thanks! John Murr 1987 Firestar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
-- "John Hauck" wrote: Morning Ralph B/Gang: Let me see if I have this right. Prop wash hitting the right side of the vertical stabilizer, in turn yaws the nose right? Seems to me if the the prop wash was pushing on the rudder the same direction as the vertical stabilizer, the rudder being a big trim tab pushed to the right would counter act the vertical stabilizer. Confusing, ain't it? Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS Titus, Alabama John and all, When the right rudder pedal is pushed, the plane yaws to the right ....right? So, when the clockwise swirling tornado from the prop hits the right side of the vert stab/rudder, it pushes the rudder to the right yawing the plane to the right. Sorry John, you can't think about the rudder and elevator as "big" trim tabs. That would be way too confusing my friend! :) Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Date: Sep 26, 2005
| When the right rudder pedal is pushed, the plane yaws to the right ....right? So, when the clockwise swirling tornado from the prop hits the right side of the vert stab/rudder, it pushes the rudder to the right yawing the plane to the right. Sorry John, you can't think about the rudder and elevator as "big" trim tabs. That would be way too confusing my friend! :) | | Ralph Ralph/All: Seems like when your tornado of swirling air hits the rudder from the right, it would push the rudder (which is hinged) to the left and counter act the push on the vertical stabilizer, reducing the amount of yaw to the right. Whether I understand it or not, I got it figured out enough to fly trimmed up on all three models of Kolbs I built and flew. 912 powered aircraft rotate opposite the two strokes, thus the prop wash hits the left side of the vertical stabilizer and rudder, pushing the nose of the aircraft left. To help counteract this, I have a large, two rib bay long, trim tab to help the prop wash push the rudder to the right and counteract the prop wash. Works great. john h MKIII/912ULS Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2005
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
I ain't buying it. It might push the vertical stab to the left, because it is hitting the vertical stab on the right. OK. That much of the premise I will buy. But - If it is also hitting the right side of the rudder, (as it apparently does to the vertical stab - pushing it left - and this is the assumption we are working on - ) would it not also be pushing the rudder to the left? How could it not? Seems to me that whatever pushes the vertical stab to the left likewise pushes the rudder to the left? And that left rudder deflection would then cause a left yaw? (Counteracting any right yaw caused by the vortex hitting the right side of the vertical fin) The ball is in your court. Go for it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >John and all, > >When the right rudder pedal is pushed, the plane yaws to the right >....right? So, when the clockwise swirling tornado from the prop hits the >right side of the vert stab/rudder, it pushes the rudder to the right >yawing the plane to the right. Sorry John, you can't think about the >rudder and elevator as "big" trim tabs. That would be way too confusing my >friend! :) > >Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Date: Sep 26, 2005
Folks, If the rudder is being pushed to any given side by the wind gusts or prop wash then it isn't going to put any aero forces on the plane because it is being pushed into alignment with the wind, not being pushed out into the wind. The wind is crooked locally because of the prop wash and if the rudder lines up with the wind then you would not get any forces on it. In reality people often fly with their feet on the pedals and hold the rudder more or less straight unless they want to turn. (These forces are fairly small just look at the small little trim tab that can correct for them.) With your feet on the pedals the rudder doesn't move out in line with the wind, and it does indeed act just like part of the vertical stabilizer, and does contribute to any yaw caused by the prop wash in the same direction as the stabilizer. Flying without your feet on the pedals in many planes, including Kolbs, significantly reduces lateral stability since they have fairly small vertical stabs and fairly large rudders (especially after accounting for the additional moment arm of the rudder.) The difference between these levels of stability is referred to control fixed versus control free stability. The same applies to the elevators; flying without the stick being held reduces longitudinal stability significantly. Christopher Armstrong ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Firestar weight and balance info needed
At 09:48 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote: > >I had purchased a 1987 Firestar and have been flying it for two >months now. I have not done a weight and balance on it because I >weigh 25 pounds more than the previous owner did. I do notice that >at cruise and to a lesser degree at idle, I need to keep my stick >"bungeed" to keep back stick pressure to keep the nose from falling. >I looked through the documentation and I can't find anything on how >to check the weight and balance. Does anyone have documentation >needed for this? Moments, etc? I think I'm nose-heavy, but I don't >want to assume this. Where is the CG range on the 1987 Firestar? Thanks! >John Murr >1987 Firestar "Well ya see John, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first- the ones that "bungeed" back the stick pressure.. This natural selection is good for the Kolb herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members - we call them "yearlings". "In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine ...and that's why you always feel smarter after a few beers. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Ted Cowan <trc1917(at)direcway.com>
Subject: nose drop
Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most of the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted Cowan, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: nose drop
Date: Sep 27, 2005
The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which cost you the most in cruise speed. Usually the least amount of deflection on the biggest movable surface is the least amount of drag. A large deflection on a small surface is usually high drag. Moving the wing with the adjustable bracket probably has the least drag. Moving the whole stab is probably next. Moving the control surface with a bungee or trim tab is probably next. Adding a little control surface at a shorter moment arm and deflecting it a lot will be the least efficient. Christopher Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan Subject: Kolb-List: nose drop Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most of the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted Cowan, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeremy Casey" <n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us>
Subject: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Date: Sep 27, 2005
The difference between these levels of stability is referred to control fixed versus control free stability. The same applies to the elevators; flying without the stick being held reduces longitudinal stability significantly. Christopher Armstrong _____________________________- Alright Topher...you've peaked my curiousity. RE: Control fixed versus control free. I understand what your saying about control free reducing stability due to the rudder/elevator not contributing to the stability of the plane if allowed to kinda flop around back there...makes good sense. What about planes with all flying stabilators (Titan, Europa, etc...) or all Flying rudders (CH601) or both (Jodel D18)...I have read somewhere that that is the reason for anti-servo tabs on stabilators...to give alittle mechanical stability by trying to move the surfaces back to the "fixed" or neutral position (terminology probably wrong...), but in the case of the CH601 I've never seen any kind of tab on the rudders of them...would that bird be fairly squirrelly if you took feet off the pedals or maybe the fuselage itself stabilizes??? Curious, Jeremy Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: nose drop
To me it's a no brainer. In store bought aircraft, designed by competent, trained aeronautical engineers, FAA certified, from the lowly line of Aeroncas through the most expensive and sophisticated high end aircraft, the first line of compensation by the factories has always been trim tabs, either fixed or cockpit adjustable. Small, cheap. easily adjusted, efficient and FAA approved. What's the problem? Gimme a break, who's sweating over loss of cruise speed in a dirty airplane like our Kolbs and any other light airplane that could possibly be measured from the effect of a tiny strip of aluminum maybe 4-5 inches long and 1-2 inches wide. Do the guys flying Kolbs who have installed over a hundred strips of aluminum vortex generators on their wings, and all leaning into the direction of flight, report any loss of cruise speed, if it could even be measured. A heck a lot more drag than a couple of strips barely bent into the line of flight, that changes the angle of a control surface such a small amount it would be hard to detect with an inclinometer. Install and enjoy. The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which cost you the most in cruise speed. Usually the least amount of deflection on the biggest movable surface is the least amount of drag. A large deflection on a small surface is usually high drag. Moving the wing with the adjustable bracket probably has the least drag. Moving the whole stab is probably next. Moving the control surface with a bungee or trim tab is probably next. Adding a little control surface at a shorter moment arm and deflecting it a lot will be the least efficient. Christopher Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan Subject: Kolb-List: nose drop Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most of the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted Cowan, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM05(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: nose drop
Date: Sep 27, 2005
Your right there shouldn't be much noticeable drag, but if I were having to glide to a safe landing point on a dead engine it might be of some significance. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIc ----- Original Message ----- From: "ray anderson" <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: nose drop > > To me it's a no brainer. In store bought aircraft, designed by competent, > trained aeronautical engineers, FAA certified, from the lowly line of > Aeroncas through the most expensive and sophisticated high end aircraft, > the first line of compensation by the factories has always been trim tabs, > either fixed or cockpit adjustable. Small, cheap. easily adjusted, > efficient and FAA approved. What's the problem? Gimme a break, who's > sweating over loss of cruise speed in a dirty airplane like our Kolbs and > any other light airplane that could possibly be measured from the effect > of a tiny strip of aluminum maybe 4-5 inches long and 1-2 inches wide. Do > the guys flying Kolbs who have installed over a hundred strips of aluminum > vortex generators on their wings, and all leaning into the direction of > flight, report any loss of cruise speed, if it could even be measured. A > heck a lot more drag than a couple of strips barely bent into the line of > flight, that changes the angle of a control su! > rface > such a small amount it would be hard to detect with an inclinometer. > Install and enjoy. > > Christopher Armstrong wrote: --> Kolb-List > message posted by: "Christopher Armstrong" > > The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction > for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which > cost > you the most in cruise speed. Usually the least amount of deflection on > the > biggest movable surface is the least amount of drag. A large deflection on > a small surface is usually high drag. Moving the wing with the adjustable > bracket probably has the least drag. Moving the whole stab is probably > next. Moving the control surface with a bungee or trim tab is probably > next. Adding a little control surface at a shorter moment arm and > deflecting it a lot will be the least efficient. > > Christopher Armstrong > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: nose drop > > > Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original > firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the > fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of > it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or > down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on > each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down > left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. > > Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most > of > > the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a > couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine > from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when > he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of > dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long > time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted > > Cowan, Alabama > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: nose drop
Ray, If you are weight, fuel capacity and horsepower limited/restricted, and you want to cross country, then the drag reduction way is the only way to go. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN > >To me it's a no brainer. In store bought aircraft, designed by competent, trained aeronautical engineers, FAA certified, from the lowly line of Aeroncas through the most expensive and sophisticated high end aircraft, the first line of compensation by the factories has always been trim tabs, either fixed or cockpit adjustable. Small, cheap. easily adjusted, efficient and FAA approved. What's the problem? Gimme a break, who's sweating over loss of cruise speed in a dirty airplane like our Kolbs and any other light airplane that could possibly be measured from the effect of a tiny strip of aluminum maybe 4-5 inches long and 1-2 inches wide. Do the guys flying Kolbs who have installed over a hundred strips of aluminum vortex generators on their wings, and all leaning into the direction of flight, report any loss of cruise speed, if it could even be measured. A heck a lot more drag than a couple of strips barely bent into the line of flight, that changes the angle of a control s! u! > rface > such a small amount it would be hard to detect with an inclinometer. Install and enjoy. > > >The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction >for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which cost >you the most in cruise speed. Usually the least amount of deflection on the >biggest movable surface is the least amount of drag. A large deflection on >a small surface is usually high drag. Moving the wing with the adjustable >bracket probably has the least drag. Moving the whole stab is probably >next. Moving the control surface with a bungee or trim tab is probably >next. Adding a little control surface at a shorter moment arm and >deflecting it a lot will be the least efficient. > >Christopher Armstrong > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Kolb-List: nose drop > > >Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original >firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the >fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of >it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or >down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on >each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down >left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. > >Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most of > >the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a >couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine >from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when >he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of >dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long >time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted > >Cowan, Alabama > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: PENGUIN <pengy(at)humboldt.net>
Subject: Roll Trim OMT
To review: The original statement: The problem that remains is the plane wanting to bank left, I have to fly with constant "right stick", the problem is not severe but annoying at least. Trim tabs vs wing shims brought this: Don't mean to be argumentive but it seems to me, raising the edge of the entire wing will create more drag than a 4-5 inch strip of aluminum as a trim tab. Followed by this from Christopher Armstrong: The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which cost you the most in cruise speed. ====================== Now I'm REALLY confused (though my wife claims this ain't too hard to do). Your sweet little Kolb has a constant left bank. Whether caused by a heavy left wing, mis-alignment of some flying surface, or the mischeivious Kolb gremlins, the aircraft is always wanting to bank left. You can cure this by adding a little drag - an aileron trim tab or changing the AOA of the wing a tiny bit. You add just enough drag to take out the left bank. Now, it seems to me if you add just enough drag to take out the bank, it doesn't matter whether you use a big surface altered a tiny bit or a small surface altered a visible amount - it is the same amount of drag. Why would cruise speed be different between a big surface and a small surface providing an equal amount of drag to correct a trim problem? (And then there is the matter of parasite drag increasing as speed increases - which changes trim again - acch!) More beer! Penguin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher Armstrong" <tophera(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Tails and trim
Date: Sep 27, 2005
The key is that all moving tails are aerodynamically balanced about their hinge line, with approximately the same amount of control surface (aerodynamic effectiveness wise not area wise) in front of and behind the pivot point. They fly in the wind with out a tendency to rotate about their pivot point when well designed. Anti-servo tabs can be used to help balance a control surface if a high lift airfoil is used that has its center of lift move from the 1/4 chord with angle of attack making it hard to balance over the range of control surface deflection, or you can use anti-servo tabs simply to modify the stick forces on any control surface if the plane is big enough that the controls get real heavy. They are simply trim tabs that move as the control is moved. Yes. I can't imagine a simpler way to trim out minor rigging errors then trim tabs (or as most of the RV guys do a wedge which some people think looks better then a trim tab and is less likely to get bumped out of adjustment or snag or cut somebody as they walk by.) If the trim tab gets really big and ugly then the rigging of the plane is bad enough that other methods are worth looking into. Christopher Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Casey Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects The difference between these levels of stability is referred to control fixed versus control free stability. The same applies to the elevators; flying without the stick being held reduces longitudinal stability significantly. Christopher Armstrong _____________________________- Alright Topher...you've peaked my curiousity. RE: Control fixed versus control free. I understand what your saying about control free reducing stability due to the rudder/elevator not contributing to the stability of the plane if allowed to kinda flop around back there...makes good sense. What about planes with all flying stabilators (Titan, Europa, etc...) or all Flying rudders (CH601) or both (Jodel D18)...I have read somewhere that that is the reason for anti-servo tabs on stabilators...to give alittle mechanical stability by trying to move the surfaces back to the "fixed" or neutral position (terminology probably wrong...), but in the case of the CH601 I've never seen any kind of tab on the rudders of them...would that bird be fairly squirrelly if you took feet off the pedals or maybe the fuselage itself stabilizes??? Curious, Jeremy Casey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: nose drop
My point to all of my mail is simply this. Unless we are talking about humongous misalignment of control surfaces, wings, etc. the amount of trim correction should be minuscule. I would bet my last dollar that if we are talking about the average trim needed, if corrected by a small trim tab, you cannot detect a difference in speed before and after correcting. Make this quick and dirty test to check my point. Instead of a permanent tab, just put a bungee cord around the stick to pull gently in the direction needed to get straight and level, hands off flight. Check your speed in calm air. move the bungee to go back to the original condition of out of trim. Check the speed again. Repeat this two or three times and I'll lay a bet you won't see any difference in speed. Unless the drift or turn is enormous, just the faintest movement of a conrtol surface, in normal calm air, will make a noticable change in direction of any normal aircraft. This tiny shift in the control surface isn't going to create drag that you can detect. Run the test. Ray, If you are weight, fuel capacity and horsepower limited/restricted, and you want to cross country, then the drag reduction way is the only way to go. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN > >To me it's a no brainer. In store bought aircraft, designed by competent, trained aeronautical engineers, FAA certified, from the lowly line of Aeroncas through the most expensive and sophisticated high end aircraft, the first line of compensation by the factories has always been trim tabs, either fixed or cockpit adjustable. Small, cheap. easily adjusted, efficient and FAA approved. What's the problem? Gimme a break, who's sweating over loss of cruise speed in a dirty airplane like our Kolbs and any other light airplane that could possibly be measured from the effect of a tiny strip of aluminum maybe 4-5 inches long and 1-2 inches wide. Do the guys flying Kolbs who have installed over a hundred strips of aluminum vortex generators on their wings, and all leaning into the direction of flight, report any loss of cruise speed, if it could even be measured. A heck a lot more drag than a couple of strips barely bent into the line of flight, that changes the angle of a control s! u! > rface > such a small amount it would be hard to detect with an inclinometer. Install and enjoy. > > >The place to correct for trim in any axis is where you get the correction >for the least amount of drag. You have to test each option to see which cost >you the most in cruise speed. Usually the least amount of deflection on the >biggest movable surface is the least amount of drag. A large deflection on >a small surface is usually high drag. Moving the wing with the adjustable >bracket probably has the least drag. Moving the whole stab is probably >next. Moving the control surface with a bungee or trim tab is probably >next. Adding a little control surface at a shorter moment arm and >deflecting it a lot will be the least efficient. > >Christopher Armstrong > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Cowan >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Kolb-List: nose drop > > >Just wanted to add my two cents. When I was flying my good ole original >firestar, I could reach out with my left hand and place it against the >fabric on the left outside. I could litterly make a half a canard out of >it. I was amased at how just a little deflection could move the nose up or >down or twist it left or right. Try it. Why not make a small canard on >each side for deflection, each separate control, to manipulate your down >left slide. Bet it would work. Dont have that problem with the Sling Shot. > >Must have screwed something up cause it will fly hands off at cruise most of > >the time. I have the engine aligned for torque with washers. I placed a >couple washers under the mount on the left front. that keeps the engine >from dumping to the left. (this info was also furnished by John Hawk when >he visited me during building and installation) By the way, the theory of >dead or dying brain cells cause of booze dont fly. Was a boozer for a long >time and I swear, only the strong cells died. The weak ones survived!! Ted > >Cowan, Alabama > > --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Titan Exhaust Sytem Tube Failures
Date: Sep 27, 2005
Hi Folks: Just got a call from John Williamson in Arlington, Tx. He just arrived home from the Kolb Homecoming. He wanted to share with me the fact that he had lost the number three exhaust tube while over a large man eating swamp in Louisiana. This is also the same pipe I lost between Santa Rosa and Albuquerque, NM, last May. Fractured in the same spot mine did, at the aft edge of the Rotax stub where it is expanded to give the pipe clamp something to push on. Thought you all might want to take a look at yours, if so equipped. Both our tubes had had partial fractures for some time prior to complete failure. However, it is impossible to catch on a preflight because it fractures under the clamp. Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Sep 27, 2005
> Q: Why can't I just use one scale and weigh all three wheels > independently? > You certainly can, but it's a pain. I have an old Howe beam balance that I used for my original W&B in that manner. Shim up one wheel to level, move to the other. It was quite accurate but extremely tiring. Recently I did it again with cheapo Kmart bathroom scales. -So cheap in fact that I had to put a little piece of plywood on them so they wouldn't oilcan from the single point depression imposed by each tyre (there ya go Pat). I subtracted the imaginary weight of the plywood in each case. It worked but the accuracy is a little questionable. My back suffered even using a lever to lift each wheel. -BB do not..... nah, go ahead and archive this'n ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: weight and balance
Date: Sep 27, 2005
| You can, but be sure to measure how high the scale platform is above the | ground, and block the opposite wheel up to match it. Raise the tail the | same amount. Lar. Lar/Gang: And............make sure it is weighed in an environment of still air. A little puff of wind will make a big difference in your weight readout. john h MKIII/912ULS PS: Lar gets the prize for the longest regurgitated post. Looked like it might be about 72". ;-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 28, 2005
Subject: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Flying without your feet on the pedals in many planes, including Kolbs, significantly reduces lateral stability since they have fairly small vertical stabs and fairly large rudders (especially after accounting for the additional moment arm of the rudder.) The difference between these levels of stability is referred to control fixed versus control free stability. The same applies to the elevators; flying without the stick being held reduces longitudinal stability significantly. Christopher Armstrong I flew over a smokestack years ago without my feet on the rudder pedals. The thermal from the stack put the Firestar into a slow yaw oscillation that kept the wings swaying back and forth. The only way I got out of it was to pull the plane up into a stall. I figure the long tube flexed quite a bit and aided the oscillation. Ralph Original Firestar 18 years flying it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph" <ul15rhb(at)juno.com>
Date: Sep 28, 2005
Subject: Re: Kolb roll/Prop Blast Effects
Richard and others, My thinking about the rudder moving to the right when hit by the prop blast is this: Once it hits the right side v/stab/rudder, the faster air (slipstream air + prop blast) moves the tail to the left. The faster moving air on the right side initiates some lift which helps move the rudder to the right because it's hinged. I may be way off base on this. Some brain cells (the weaker ones) are gone due to life's hard knocks. The plane flies well and I know how to handle it, so I don't think too hard about this. Ralph Original Firestar 18 years flying it -- Richard Pike wrote: I ain't buying it. It might push the vertical stab to the left, because it is hitting the vertical stab on the right. OK. That much of the premise I will buy. But - If it is also hitting the right side of the rudder, (as it apparently does to the vertical stab - pushing it left - and this is the assumption we are working on - ) would it not also be pushing the rudder to the left? How could it not? Seems to me that whatever pushes the vertical stab to the left likewise pushes the rudder to the left? And that left rudder deflection would then cause a left yaw? (Counteracting any right yaw caused by the vortex hitting the right side of the vertical fin) The ball is in your court. Go for it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > >John and all, > >When the right rudder pedal is pushed, the plane yaws to the right >....right? So, when the clockwise swirling tornado from the prop hits the >right side of the vert stab/rudder, it pushes the rudder to the right >yawing the plane to the right. Sorry John, you can't think about the >rudder and elevator as "big" trim tabs. That would be way too confusing my >friend! :) > >Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2005
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Sport pilot question
Hi to all, I took and passed the sport pilot written test today. Now the chicken or the egg question. Do I N-number the F.S.II and then take the practical? Or do I take the practical then N-number the aircraft? If I understand things correctly, I must take the practical test in an N-numbered aircraft of the same type I am going to fly. However, I may not fly an N-Numbered aircraft until I have a sport pilot endorsement. Any insight on this would be a great help. Thanks in advance to anyone that responds to this question. Lanny Fetterman F.S. II #598 A.S.C. # A10LRF Do not archive ` P.S. Several of the questions I was asked, were NOT in the bank of 189 sport pilot questions that I downloaded to study for the test. Surprise, Surprise! ________________________________________________________________________________ FCC: mailbox://supprefnum6538878(at)ebay.com/Sent
Date: Sep 06, 2009
From: eBay Inc <supprefnum6538878(at)ebay.com>
boundary="------------040205050107020502050002" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. supprefnum62959976@ebay.com" border="0" usemap="#ynurpd"> in 1970 Christmas What's wwrong? May I..? 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Subject: Proper w/b procedure
From: Jim Gerken <gerken(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Sep 28, 2005
09/28/2005 06:49:49 AM From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: weight and balance >>above the >>| ground, and block the opposite wheel up to match it. Raise the tail >>the >>| same amount. Lar. >Lar/Gang: >And............make sure it is weighed in an environment of still air. >A little puff of wind will make a big difference in your weight >readout. >john h >MKIII/912ULS John H., how did your weight and balance come out? Can you show us your math? Jim Gerken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James, Ken" <KDJames(at)berkscareer.com>
Subject: Sport pilot question
Date: Sep 28, 2005
Where did Dload the questions from? Thanks Ken -----Original Message----- From: Lanny Fetterman [mailto:donaho(at)csrlink.net] Subject: Kolb-List: Sport pilot question Hi to all, I took and passed the sport pilot written test today. Now the chicken or the egg question. Do I N-number the F.S.II and then take the practical? Or do I take the practical then N-number the aircraft? If I understand things correctly, I must take the practical test in an N-numbered aircraft of the same type I am going to fly. However, I may not fly an N-Numbered aircraft until I have a sport pilot endorsement. Any insight on this would be a great help. Thanks in advance to anyone that responds to this question. Lanny Fetterman F.S. II #598 A.S.C. # A10LRF Do not archive ` P.S. Several of the questions I was asked, were NOT in the bank of 189 sport pilot questions that I downloaded to study for the test. Surprise, Surprise! IMPORTANT/CONFIDENTIAL: This communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail contains information from the Berks Career & Technology Center that may be privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and permanently delete this message including all attachments. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Sport pilot test
Ken and all, I downloaded the test questions from http://av-info.faa.gov/data/airmanknowledge/lsp.htm Lanny Do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: broken titan exhaust system
From: Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com
Date: Sep 28, 2005
09/28/2005 12:02:12 PM I have said this before, but you guys might want to take a hard look at my exhaust system for the 912. I repaired the Titan system three times, then gave up and went to this one. Not even a hint of wear on it. Looks cool as well - nice and compact instead of a tangle of pipe. http://www.rick-thomason.com/ste_003.htm Erich Weaver This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. If you receive this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should not retain, distribute, disclose or use any of this information and you should destroy the e-mail and any attachments or copies. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: broken titan exhaust system
Date: Sep 28, 2005
|Looks cool as | well - nice and compact instead of a tangle of pipe. | | http://www.rick-thomason.com/ste_003.htm | | | Erich Weaver Hi Erich/Gang: Cheaper price also. I put about 900 hours on the first set of Titan 912ULS exhaust with excellent results. Got a new set for the 2004 Alaska flight, which had a failed tube last May with about 150 hours on it. Your system seems to eliminate the stress that will be applied to the Titan system should it not line up correctly. Slip fits of your system should last much longer than the long, clamped exhaust tubes on the Titan system. I do like the exhaust note of the Titan over the system you are flying with. Wonder if they could do something about it? ;-) Like comparing a T-28 to an AT-6 exhaust note. Take care, john h MKIII/912ULS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: possums <possums(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Firestar weight and balance info needed
> >At 09:48 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote: > > > >I had purchased a 1987 Firestar and have been flying it for two > >months now. I have not done a weight and balance on it because I > >weigh 25 pounds more than the previous owner did. I do notice that > >at cruise and to a lesser degree at idle, I need to keep my stick > >"bungeed" to keep back stick pressure to keep the nose from falling. > >I looked through the documentation and I can't find anything on how > >to check the weight and balance. Does anyone have documentation > >needed for this? Moments, etc? I think I'm nose-heavy, but I don't > >want to assume this. Where is the CG range on the 1987 Firestar? Thanks! > >John Murr > >1987 Firestar Old weight & Balance drawings http://sos.photosite.com/Album1/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: russ kinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: trim
Date: Sep 28, 2005
Next time you're near a Bonanza, go to the front and sight down the centerline of the a/c. You'll see that the centerline of the engine is offset a few degrees -- to counteract the "P-factor" caused by the rotating propwash hitting the tail. They knew what they were doing, and made a simple fix, without the drag of trimtabs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: Charles Blackwell <wozani(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Banking left
This discussion is so much fun I wanted to add in my extra cents on the thread. With my MkII I've also noticed a left banking tendency when flown solo from the left seat.. It is less pronounced when flying solo from the right seat, but noticeable. For me, the conclusion was that my weight shifting was controlling the plane. It is noticeably different if I lean over the centerline of the plane and push with my hand on the other seat. If myself and the passenger both lean forward, the plane wants to dive a bit. If we both lean to one side to see something interesting, the plane understands and turns in that direction unless I compensate with the controls. When flying solo now I use a bungee on the control stick that pulls it to the cage of the frame and takes the pressure off my arm. I got the idea off this list and it works great. I just remove the bungee when flying double. An adjustable tab would have been my second attempt at a correction, adjustable because it needs to compensate only when I am solo. Charlie, MkII in NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Mallory" <wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject:
Date: Sep 28, 2005
I want to thank everyone for all of the great advice (and commentary) as a result of all this great information I have been able to correct the banking problem on my Firestar II by bending the cage slightly, adding a trim tab and ..... I currently fly from a seat attached to the right gear leg. Flies great but I am suspicious that the relocation of the seat may add quite a bit of drag ... but what the hey, it works. Thanks again Chris Mallory (Just kidding) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robert Noyer <ronoy(at)shentel.net>
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Spread Sheet
Date: Sep 28, 2005
I think Ray A's link for W&B calculations should be Archived. Again: http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/Wghtbal.htm regards, Bob N. ronoy(at)shentel.net http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: PENGUIN <pengy(at)humboldt.net>
Subject: Re: Sport pilot test
Lanny Fetterman wrote: > >Ken and all, I downloaded the test questions from >http://av-info.faa.gov/data/airmanknowledge/lsp.htm Lanny Do not >archive > > > IMHO, this is one worth archiving. Penguin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedl(at)highstream.net>
Subject: Re: broken titan exhaust system
Date: Sep 28, 2005
Eric, That is a super clean looking exhaust, also looks very light. Did you build it or purchase it? Denny Rowe > http://www.rick-thomason.com/ste_003.htm > > > Erich Weaver > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Sport pilot test
Mike you may have to start at av-info.faa.gov I downloaded the test about two months ago, so I`m not sure where I went first when I found it. The URL is correct as it is printed at the bottom of each page I printed out. Hope this helps. Lanny ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2005
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Starter battery
John, I have a 503 with an Air drive starter ( no longer made). I use a 17 amp gel cell that I bought at a local battery store. I paid about half what the aircraft supply people charge. This is year four for this battery, always turns the engine over real good. I always hook up a solar charger to it when it`s sitting in the hanger. I put the solar panel in the hanger window, I had to lengthen the wires to reach, but it seems to work. I think the battery is made by powersonic but I would have to check to be sure. Only drawback is, it is very heavy, however the FSII still is the fastest climbing aircraft at our small airport. Hope this helps Lanny ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2005
From: Mike Schnabel <tnfirestar2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sport pilot test
Lanny, looks like the FAA has moved some things around on the Internet. av-info.faa.gov only redirects you to faa.gov site. But after a quick search i did find the test question bank. Here is link to the Airmen Knowledge Test Questions page for all tests. Thanks for the help! Mike http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_questions/ Lanny Fetterman wrote: Mike you may have to start at av-info.faa.gov I downloaded the test about two months ago, so I`m not sure where I went first when I found it. The URL is correct as it is printed at the bottom of each page I printed out. Hope this helps. Lanny --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2005
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho(at)csrlink.net>
Subject: Solar charger
Hi Pat and all, I bought several chargers at Harbor Freight tools, they list for $20.00 but go on sale for $9.99 a couple times a year. They are listed at 1.5 amp and 12 volts, works great on the 17amp gel cell, not as well on the marine battery in my boat. I guess the more power a charger puts out the better, however they can get really expensive as you go bigger and more powerful. Performance also declines if you have a month of cloudy days in a row. Lanny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Battery for 503 Starter?
Date: Sep 29, 2005
Get a small car battery and install it in the nose. I do not believe the extra weight justifies ignoring this possibility when compared to gell cells or other low amp batterys from a cost perspective. If you are installing it in a classic your CG is probably towards the rear so the extra weight in the nose will be a benefit. Bathed in battery acid would be the least of your worries if you have an incident. FWIW my car battery faired quite well in my latest incident and can still be used, It was in the nose.. > > What size, make and model battery should I get for my recently purchased TNK starter? I've used motorcycle batteries in the past (in motorcycles) and they only seemed to last a year. They were lead acid and I assume that I will need a sealed battery. The thought of being bathed in battery acid isn't appealing to me at all if it should spill. > I would think a gel-cell or one of the newer type batteries would be better but which one? Suggestions? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flykolb" <flykolb(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: List of Kolbers
Date: Sep 29, 2005
2.32 DATE_IN_FUTURE_12_24 Date: is 12 to 24 hours after Received: date Could someone send me the url for the list which shows the nbames of Kolber (dama or something like that). Jim Mark III ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net>
Subject: Re: Jabiru Prop Choice
Date: Sep 29, 2005
I just bought a p tip prop but did not get to install it on my Jabi. I cant figure out how to read it It does not have standard pitch / dia numbers. Perhaps you can help me. 4444 is stamped in the prop. P63 BP 30 LK is on a decal 38P 552 is etched in small print under the squash plate. The prop measures 63 " dia What do you think the pitch is ? > Steve/All > On the 85hp jab on our Xtra we have found good results from the Prince P-Tip > 62"x31, this gave 3300 rpm at full power in level flight with 85Kt airspeed > and 3100 in the climb with 900-1000 Fpm at 1000lbs. > Prop is quiet and is the best looking I have ever seen, we use the carbon > one as it only weighs about 2.4lbs, and the service is excellent. > They have made props for the older 80 hp engines on Kolbs in the past. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2005
From: Michael Sharp <kolbdriver(at)mlsharp.com>
Subject: Re: List of Kolbers
http://www.springeraviation.net Here ya go! flykolb wrote: Could someone send me the url for the list which shows the nbames of Kolber (dama or something like that). Jim Mark III ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bourne" <biglar(at)gogittum.com>
Subject: Re: Battery for 503 Starter?
Date: Sep 29, 2005
I dunno, Woody. We're usually on the same page, but I hafta back up a bit on this'n. At the very least, "bathed in battery acid" would make a bad situation worse. Have you ever seen the scars left over from acid burns ?? Right now, Vamoose has a cheap NAPA lawnmower battery that cranks that big VW just fine, but I plan on a gel cell when ready to fly. Lar. Leaving the whole series of messages intact this time. Larry Bourne Palm Springs, CA Building Kolb Mk III N78LB Vamoose www.gogittum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "woody" <duesouth(at)govital.net> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Battery for 503 Starter? > > Get a small car battery and install it in the nose. I do not believe the > extra weight justifies ignoring this possibility when compared to gell > cells > or other low amp batterys from a cost perspective. If you are installing > it > in a classic your CG is probably towards the rear so the extra weight in > the > nose will be a benefit. Bathed in battery acid would be the least of your > worries if you have an incident. FWIW my car battery faired quite well in > my > latest incident and can still be used, It was in the nose.. > > >> >> What size, make and model battery should I get for my recently purchased > TNK starter? I've used motorcycle batteries in the past (in motorcycles) > and they only seemed to last a year. They were lead acid and I assume > that > I will need a sealed battery. The thought of being bathed in battery acid > isn't appealing to me at all if it should spill. >> I would think a gel-cell or one of the newer type batteries would be > better but which one? Suggestions? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirby Dennis Contr MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Subject: Re: broken titan exhaust system
Date: Sep 29, 2005
<< I repaired the Titan system three times, then gave up and went to this one. Not even a hint of wear on it. Looks cool as well - nice and compact instead of a tangle of pipe. >> Erich - You are right - that is a very elegant and compact exhaust system for the 912. However, do you have to be concerned about Rotax's warning note in the Installation Manual: "Distribution of the exhaust gases into 2 seperate systems is not recommended." (Section 10.2) ? Just wondering what the down-side is ... Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, 30 hrs Cedar Crest, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2005
From: PENGUIN <pengy(at)humboldt.net>
Subject: Re: Solar charger
Lanny Fetterman wrote: > >Hi Pat and all, I bought several chargers at Harbor Freight tools, they >list for $20.00 but go on sale for $9.99 a couple times a year. They are >listed at 1.5 amp and 12 volts, works great on the 17amp gel cell, not as >well on the marine battery in my boat. I guess the more power a charger >puts out the better, however they can get really expensive as you go bigger >and more powerful. Performance also declines if you have a month of cloudy >days in a row. Lanny > > >

September 05, 2005 - September 29, 2005

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