Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-iw
September 14, 2009 - October 02, 2009
We often get a few weeks of smooth gentle winds around now. Evenings are
shortening. Pretty dusk ( dimpsy as we say in this part of the world) at
around 7.30. Have to get the plane out soon even if it is only to run the
engine.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
The question of whether VGs will reduce stall speed has been answered over and
over in the affirmative. The less discussed question is whether there is a drag
penalty at higher speeds. Following are links to two tests done on a Bonanza
(same Bonanza for both tests), one for VGs and stall speed and the other VGs
and cruise speeds.
http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_stall_wide_screen.pdf
http://www.nar-associates.com/technical-flying/vortex/Vgs_cruise_wide_screen.pdf
Just because these tests were done on a Bonanza and not a Kolb does not mean that
the principles do not also apply to Kolbs. The magnitude of the effects may
be different but it is very unlikely (in my opinion) that there is no higher
speed cost/penalty when VGs are installed.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262907#262907
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
List, my apologies. That msg was meant to go to Pat, not the List.>>
Sorry from me too. Banged off a reply without checking the address the
message came from.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
it's a measure of your manners and geniality
that you feel the need to apologize at all.Pat, here in
Kansas we are under the influence of what the weather wizards call a
retrograde wind flow caused by a low pressure system centered in Texas
that
is making the Great Plains as soggy and humid as anything in Jolly Old
England, just a bit warmer, that's all. >>
Well thanks, I`m blushing.
Soggy and humid here it ain`t. We had the first of the Autumn (fall)
weather about 10 days ago after a miserable summer. As I was expaining
to Russ we often have a series of highs now for 2 or 3 weeks. Windless,
quiet days with the smoke from the leaf burning bonfires going straight
up. Kids are back at school. Great to get a break in while it is quiet.
Clear crisp sunny days with a bit of ground fog early in the morning.
The leaves are beginning to change colour but no frost yet so no leaves
are falling. The chestnut trees have got some sort of a disease and
they are turning brown. We had Dutch elm disease strike the trees some
years ago and tens of thousand of elms were lost .It would be a
catastrophe if the same thing hapenned to the chestnuts. Perfect flying
weather if you can get away in the afternoon but the long light
evenings which we get all summer are beginning to shorten.
heigh Ho. Fingers crossed.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Mike , They certainly are a giant pain when you clean your aircraft.
???? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 10:50 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Malcolm,
?
? I believe Chris is correct9about Manuevering speed affecting stall speed).? "Manuevering
speed" is the speed at which you can make (moderately) abrupt control
inputs, and not bend your airplane.? It must also be pointed out that these
abrupt inputs are limited to mild to moderate turbulence, if I recall correctly.
? A "high G loading" is suggesting an absolute maximum an airplane MAY?NOT recover
from, if you have to make a rapid control movement.
? (I haven't reached for my latest copy of the Airmen Information Manual, so don't
make a federal case, if I got a detail or two wrong)
?
? From what I have heard, read, researched, etc. VG's augment the slow end of the
flying spectrum.? They don't do much, if anything,?for the upper end.? The
VGs act on the wing's surface in?a similar?way?the dimples on a golf ball allow
it to?go MUCH further than a golf ball without dimples.? They, the VGs or dimples,
affect the boundary air going past the surface.
?
? On a separate note, some pilots have said they don't want VGs on their plane.?
Period!!!? Why is this so hard for some others to accept??
? For some purists, they do NOT want an airplane with whiskers, regardless of what
the whiskers may do.? They aren't interested in any of the benefits, real
or imagined, brought on by the addition of VGs.
? I don't recall hearing from any of these pilots?that VGs don't work as advertised,
they have simply said "No, thank you for me."
? It seems, for some inexplicable reason, there are those that simply won't rest
until everyone has?VGs.
?
? Personally , I DO plan on adding VGs, when I get back to work on my plane in
about two months.??I DO see their value, and am not worried about having the annoying
sharp edges on the wings.? But I certainly respect another guy's decision
to NOT use them!
? The science behind VGs is clear.? Their value is not in question when added properly
on "some" wings.? But, not everyone wants them.
?
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
?
?
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
> From: ces308(at)ldaco.com
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:08:09 -0700
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I don't believe it has anything to do with the stall....it does ,however have
to do with when the airplane could start coming apart or at least start bending
something....
>
> chris ambrose
> m3x/jab
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262863#262863
>
>
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>=
>
>
>
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
Click here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
Gary=2C
I'm expecting that I'll use my big fluffy car brush=2C you know=2C the ki
nd that your garden hose attaches to.
That=2C or hire some teenager. LOL
Mike Welch
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 11:18:38 -0400
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Mike =2C They certainly are a giant pain when you clean your aircraft.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun=2C Sep 13=2C 2009 10:50 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Malcolm=2C
I believe Chris is correct9about Manuevering speed affecting stall speed)
. "Manuevering speed" is the speed at which you can make (moderately) abru
pt control inputs=2C and not bend your airplane. It must also be pointed o
ut that these abrupt inputs are limited to mild to moderate turbulence=2C i
f I recall correctly.
A "high G loading" is suggesting an absolute maximum an airplane MAY NOT
recover from=2C if you have to make a rapid control movement.
(I haven't reached for my latest copy of the Airmen Information Manual=2C
so don't make a federal case=2C if I got a detail or two wrong)
From what I have heard=2C read=2C researched=2C etc. VG's augment the slo
w end of the flying spectrum. They don't do much=2C if anything=2C for the
upper end. The VGs act on the wing's surface in a similar way the dimples
on a golf ball allow it to go MUCH further than a golf ball without dimple
s. They=2C the VGs or dimples=2C affect the boundary air going past the su
rface.
On a separate note=2C some pilots have said they don't want VGs on their
plane. Period!!! Why is this so hard for some others to accept?
For some purists=2C they do NOT want an airplane with whiskers=2C regardl
ess of what the whiskers may do. They aren't interested in any of the bene
fits=2C real or imagined=2C brought on by the addition of VGs.
I don't recall hearing from any of these pilots that VGs don't work as ad
vertised=2C they have simply said "No=2C thank you for me."
It seems=2C for some inexplicable reason=2C there are those that simply w
on't rest until everyone has VGs.
Personally =2C I DO plan on adding VGs=2C when I get back to work on my p
lane in about two months. I DO see their value=2C and am not worried about
having the annoying sharp edges on the wings. But I certainly respect ano
ther guy's decision to NOT use them!
The science behind VGs is clear. Their value is not in question when add
ed properly on "some" wings. But=2C not everyone wants them.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
> From: ces308(at)ldaco.com
> Date: Sun=2C 13 Sep 2009 19:08:09 -0700
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I don't believe it has anything to do with the stall....it does =2Choweve
r have to do with when the airplane could start coming apart or at least st
art bending something....
>
> chris ambrose
> m3x/jab
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262863#262863
>
>
Archive Search & Download=2C 7-Day Browse=2C Chat=2C FAQ=2C
>=
>
>
>
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digit
al tv's. Click here.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Mike,
?No water available at the hanger so I use a trigger spray bottle and a towel to
clean .The towel thing is the pain.
? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:27 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Gary,
?
? I'm expecting that I'll use my big fluffy car brush, you know, the kind that
your garden hose attaches to.
?
? That, or hire some teenager.? LOL
?
Mike Welch
?
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:18:38 -0400
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Mike , They certainly are a giant pain when you clean your aircraft.
???? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 10:50 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
Malcolm,
?
? I believe Chris is correct9about Manuevering speed affecting stall speed).? "Manuevering
speed" is the speed at which you can make (moderately) abrupt control
inputs, and not bend your airplane.? It must also be pointed out that these
abrupt inputs are limited to mild to moderate turbulence, if I recall correctly.
? A "high G loading" is suggesting an absolute maximum an airplane MAY?NOT recover
from, if you have to make a rapid control movement.
? (I haven't reached for my latest copy of the Airmen Information Manual, so don't
make a federal case, if I got a detail or two wrong)
?
? From what I have heard, read, researched, etc. VG's augment the slow end of the
flying spectrum.? They don't do much, if anything,?for the upper end.? The
VGs act on the wing's surface in?a similar?way?the dimples on a golf ball allow
it to?go MUCH further than a golf ball without dimples.? They, the VGs or dimples,
affect the boundary air going past the surface.
?
? On a separate note, some pilots have said they don't want VGs on their plane.?
Period!!!? Why is this so hard for some others to accept??
? For some purists, they do NOT want an airplane with whiskers, regardless of what
the whiskers may do.? They aren't interested in any of the benefits, real
or imagined, brought on by the addition of VGs.
? I don't recall hearing from any of these pilots?that VGs don't work as advertised,
they have simply said "No, thank you for me."
? It seems, for some inexplicable reason, there are those that simply won't rest
until everyone has?VGs.
?
? Personally , I DO plan on adding VGs, when I get back to work on my plane in
about two months.??I DO see their value, and am not worried about having the annoying
sharp edges on the wings.? But I certainly respect another guy's decision
to NOT use them!
? The science behind VGs is clear.? Their value is not in question when added properly
on "some" wings.? But, not everyone wants them.
?
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
?
?
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed
> From: ces308(at)ldaco.com
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:08:09 -0700
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I don't believe it has anything to do with the stall....it does ,however have
to do with when the airplane could start coming apart or at least start bending
something....
>
> chris ambrose
> m3x/jab
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262863#262863
>
>
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>=
>
>
>
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
Click here.
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by get='_new'>Get it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Washing a FireFly with VG's |
The first couple of times I cleaned the FireFly, I used too much water. I
asked my hangar mate how he kept his little Cessna so bright and clean. He
showed me a spray water bottle and a roll of paper towels.
I adopted his technique and it works out very well. For the wing I spray an
area that covers my reach from three step stool. Then I use a square paper
towel folded into quarters, and sop up the water and dust. Then I spray the
area again and unfold the towel to expose the inside surfaces and mop up the
water an the remaining dust. Then I discard the towel, move the stool and
start again.
One has to be a little careful around the vg's but it is easy to clean
around them with a folded towel while holding the vg down with one
finger.
On the tail surfaces that receive a little oil spatter, I spray the affected
areas with a green cleaner before the water. And then I use the same
process on the tail.
Overall I can clean the FireFly with less that two dozen paper towels and
less than a pint of water.
FWIW
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
-----Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:18:38 -0400
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at onlyinternet.net
Mike , They certainly are a giant pain when you clean your aircraft.
G.Aman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I went to the airport today and installed my VGs made of flashing aluminum. I taped
them on to the wings only, using black electrical tape over the center section
between the vanes, 6.5 " aft of leading edge to the peak (aft part) of the
VGs. That turns out to be 8.5" measured along the curvature of the upper camber.
I used 23 pair (I use the term pair because they are double vaned with an
included angle of 30 degrees) on each of my short wings (span is 22') spaced
evenly one pair in the valley between each rib and false rib, for a total of
46 pair. My ribs and false ribs are spaced on 4" centers so my VGs are spaced
4" on centers. I stopped just outside of the prop circle so there are none from
the fuselage centerline outwards for about 3' on each wing.
I made these many years ago for my early FS and later removed them. I had them
installed much further back on the FS and it decreased the stall speed a good
bit but at that location on my FS the stall became a little too abrupt for my
tastes. The design was copied from someone's design posted on this list more
than once.
It was too windy to fly today to get reliable speeds so I can't yet report the
results, but will at the first opportunity. I don't know if any SS flyer has ever
installed VGs on an SS so this should be interesting. I'll be checking powered
required (rpm) at my normal cruise speed too to see if there is noticable
degradation in airspeed at my normal cruise power setting.
Stay tuned.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262960#262960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
Beauford/Gang:
Took the words right out of my mouth.
When the air gets rough enough to be uncomfortable in my mkIII, I
automatically reduce power and airspeed to compensate. I have a
maneuver speed arc on my ASI, but don't need to look at it. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
----- Original Message -----
when the air gets rough enough to be looking for maneuvering speed in
a Kolb, you'll likely be lucky to keep the needle bounce within 5 mph
anyway...
my opinion...worth what ye paid fer it...
beauford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
when the air gets rough enough to be looking for maneuvering speed in a
Kolb, you'll likely be lucky to keep the needle bounce within 5 mph
anyway...
my opinion...worth what ye paid fer it...
beauford
FF-076
Brandon FL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The time I needed maneuvering speed this spring.. The air speed indicator
was bouncing back and forth between 40 and 90 several times before we got
out of the rough air. I was too busy flying,,, but I honestly thing that
the gps would have shown very little change. I don't want to experience
that again to find out.
Boyd Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | got a little wet |
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
rain before sunset
Wish I knew how to shrink the photo
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263007#263007
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02329_264.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
This is near Pleasant Valley Airport (P48) Peoria, Az
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263008#263008
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02330_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
Dale=2C
Please call me=2C and I'll see if I can help you reduce the image file si
zes of your photos.
I have to do it occationally.
Mike Welch
573-480-9802
> Subject: Kolb-List: Arial rainbow
> From: dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net
> Date: Mon=2C 14 Sep 2009 13:34:48 -0700
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> This is near Pleasant Valley Airport (P48) Peoria=2C Az
>
> --------
> Dale Whelan
> 503 powered Firestar II
> Projection=2C A simple and interesting Psychological concept
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263008#263008
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02330_155.jpg
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Three Forks of the Owyhee |
Gang,
As you know by now, John Hauck has been here for his annual get dirty
time of the year where we do on the ground what we do from the air in
the spring at our annual Kolb Fly in at the Rock House..
I scouted from the Firestar a route down into the Three Forks area.
John has flown over it every time that he goes home in the spring and
wanted to put some boots on the ground for a change.
I have a blog that I created for my family and friends that are
interested in the things that I do here in this fantastic area, that
covers every thing from my flights to hunting with my hawks, and the
trip that I take here. You are welcome to look through it, but not
obligated.
http://owyheeflyer.blogspot.com/
Larry C
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: got a little wet |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Dale, get Irfanview. It's free from Tucows and other download sites. Here is
you photo at various sizes. All three done in about as many minutes.
Rick
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:32 PM, dalewhelan wrote:
>
> rain before sunset
> Wish I knew how to shrink the photo
>
> --------
> Dale Whelan
> 503 powered Firestar II
> Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263007#263007
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02329_264.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: got a little wet |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Or you can do effects.
Rick
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Dale, get Irfanview. It's free from Tucows and other download sites. Here
> is you photo at various sizes. All three done in about as many minutes.
> Rick
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:32 PM, dalewhelan wrote:
>
>>
>> rain before sunset
>> Wish I knew how to shrink the photo
>>
>> --------
>> Dale Whelan
>> 503 powered Firestar II
>> Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263007#263007
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02329_264.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: got a little wet |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Or be Dave Bowman falling into the monolith.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Or you can do effects.
> Rick
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
>> Dale, get Irfanview. It's free from Tucows and other download sites. Here
>> is you photo at various sizes. All three done in about as many minutes.
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:32 PM, dalewhelan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> rain before sunset
>>> Wish I knew how to shrink the photo
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Dale Whelan
>>> 503 powered Firestar II
>>> Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263007#263007
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02329_264.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: got a little wet |
| From: | "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net> |
In the menu settings for most digital cameras is an image mode option. Yours is
probably set to a high quality setting right now. Change it to a "PC screen"
1074 x 768 pixel setting and they will be good for email or websites.
--------
Jimmy Young
FS II, HKS 700
N7043P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263040#263040
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
It was raining around my airport on Sunday, but I managed to avoid these
localized showers, one of them smack dab in the middle of this image.
If you look closely, about 75% of the way to the right, you'll see
downtown Houston on the horizon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
I have a Garmin GPS map 96 it does everything i need it to do , BUT
the grey screen is very hard for my old eyes to use. I'm thinking
about selling it and up gradeing to either a 96 color or a 196. I have
not looked at
either one up close . Can anyone advise me if the 196 color is worth
the extra money over the 196 greyscreen ?(ease of viewing) , Or even
if the 196 is a big improvement over the 96.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
HKS
P.S. Yesterday I took my first x country over 250 miles. Pretty windy
some legs 35 mph ground speed. Long hard day , but left me with a all
around good feeling at the end.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
I used a Anywhere Travel Companion to fly cross country and just love it!
- Full color, shows all private as well as public use airports, easy to u
se - and much less expensive than any other GPS I've seen.- PLUS - it has
a full automobile data base as well, so when Norm and I take a road trip,
I just take it out of my plane and put it into the car.
-
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, frank.goodnight wrote:
From: frank.goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: GPS question
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 9:40 AM
>
I have a Garmin- GPS map 96 it does everything i need it to do , BUT the
grey screen is very hard for my old eyes to use. I'm thinking about selling
it and up gradeing to either a 96 color or a 196. I have not looked at
either one up close . Can anyone advise me if the 196 color is worth the ex
tra money over the 196 greyscreen ?(ease of viewing) , Or even if the 196 i
s a big improvement over the 96.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
HKS
P.S.- Yesterday I took my first x country over 250 miles. Pretty windy so
me legs 35 mph ground speed. Long hard day , but left me with a all around
good feeling at the end.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
I have the 196 and it is awesome ! You can get them very cheaply off ebay, and
configure the number to be large if you want. The color version 296 is great,
but you just need to decide weather it is worth the extra money or not.
What I like about the Garmin units is that you turn them on and forget about them.
They are made for aviation, no hassles, no constant configuring, no screwing
around, you just turn them on and they just work well with very little or
no pilot action required.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263160#263160
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
I'm thinking
> about selling it and up gradeing to either a 96 color or a 196. I have
> not looked at
> either one up close . Can anyone advise me if the 196 color is worth the
> extra money over the 196 greyscreen ?(ease of viewing) , Or even if the
> 196 is a big improvement over the 96.
> Frank Goodnight
Frank G/Gang:
I have been flying with a Garmin 196 for some time. It is grey scale. Did
not know they made a color 196. I do believe the 296 has color screen.
I have no problem with seeing the image on my 196.
The contrast can be adjusted to help clear up your picture.
I have a 60cx color map I use on the ATV. It does work great in direct sun
light. In fact, better than in some lighting conditions. It does not have
the Jeppesen data base.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks for telling me how to resize
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263162#263162
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02335_medium_198.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Icom radio noise |
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
All seems well now.
The squeal was from using the headset with the PTT disconnected.
My plug gap wore to .035"
I flew the other day and side tone was mot so good but I was heard well.
I turned my intercom to pilot isolate and all was normal.
I will try a new intercom battery.
Last time I was powering the intercom off the plane
I do have a condenser at the rectifier.
I will see how it works
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263163#263163
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
John , You are right about no 196 color and the 296 color . I am still
interested in knowing if the
296 is worth the difference in price over the 196. My wife tells me
that I don't have money to waste buying the wrong unit again-ref the
96- if anyone has used both the 196 & the 296
please let me know what you think.
I hope you guys will think this is Kolb related because the GPS is to
be used in my firestar.
Frank Goodnight
>
>
> I'm thinking
>> about selling it and up gradeing to either a 96 color or a 196. I
>> have not looked at
>> either one up close . Can anyone advise me if the 196 color is
>> worth the extra money over the 196 greyscreen ?(ease of viewing) ,
>> Or even if the 196 is a big improvement over the 96.
>> Frank Goodnight
>
>
> Frank G/Gang:
>
> I have been flying with a Garmin 196 for some time. It is grey
> scale. Did not know they made a color 196. I do believe the 296
> has color screen.
>
> I have no problem with seeing the image on my 196.
>
> The contrast can be adjusted to help clear up your picture.
>
> I have a 60cx color map I use on the ATV. It does work great in
> direct sun light. In fact, better than in some lighting
> conditions. It does not have the Jeppesen data base.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
While Thom's VG test might prove slightly interesting, it will most likely show
much less improvement than it should. VG size, shape and design is very critical,
and when one uses a " That looks about right " method of putting them on,
its like trying to design an airfoil of a wing just by drawing what " looks
right ". One might get lucky, but chances are it wont fly very well, the same
goes for VG's.
If one knows how VG's work, they create lots of little vorticies over the wing
to keep the airflow from separating. One very important part of this is that
these vorticies be evenly spaced so that they cover the entire wing. When some
guy makes a " Double VG's " made out of aluminum, where you have pairs of VG's
sticking up with uneven spacing, where pairs of VG's are very close to each
other followed by wide spaces in between them. This is horrible design, you
are just creating vorticies on top of each other where the spacing is to narrow,
and not getting any vorticies at all in the wide areas.
Correct placement of VG's is critical, even spacing is important, size is important.
Those that are just using a " This looks about right " method are just
relying on luck as much as they are aerodynamic science, and this is not likely
to turn out well. Below are a couple videos of the performance of properly
designed and correctly mounted VG's on my Kolb MK III Xtra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMRUPH39gM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN7i8oiJzKE
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263168#263168
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
Frank=2C
My GPS choices are similar to yours(Garmin). I had (still have=2C but it
is valueless) a Garmin 95XL. I thought it was great=2C but eventually the
new GPSs came out=2C and I decided to get a 296.
I HIGHLY(!!!) recommend the 296. The color screen is a very nice feature
. Plus=2C there are a ton of other extras that the old 95Xl/96 don't have.
In a nutshell=2C I can assure you if you got a 296=2C you'd wonder why yo
u waited so long. It is a huge improvement over the older models!
One more thing. Not to desparage the other brands of GPS=2C I realize th
ere are several. My experience is only with Garmin. Many of the newer=2C
large color screen GPS's would also be a great choice.
To make an easy analogy....what you have is a black and white Victrola.
A color screen (and nwer) GPS is like when you bought your first color TV
=2C with a handheld remote control. Was it worth it??
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: GPS question
> Date: Tue=2C 15 Sep 2009 13:22:06 -0500
>
et>
>
> John =2C You are right about no 196 color and the 296 color . I am still
> interested in knowing if the
> 296 is worth the difference in price over the 196. My wife tells me
> that I don't have money to waste buying the wrong unit again-ref the
> 96- if anyone has used both the 196 & the 296
> please let me know what you think.
> I hope you guys will think this is Kolb related because the GPS is to
> be used in my firestar.
>
> Frank Goodnight
>
>
> >
> >
> > I'm thinking
> >> about selling it and up gradeing to either a 96 color or a 196. I
> >> have not looked at
> >> either one up close . Can anyone advise me if the 196 color is
> >> worth the extra money over the 196 greyscreen ?(ease of viewing) =2C
> >> Or even if the 196 is a big improvement over the 96.
> >> Frank Goodnight
> >
> >
> >
> > Frank G/Gang:
> >
> > I have been flying with a Garmin 196 for some time. It is grey
> > scale. Did not know they made a color 196. I do believe the 296
> > has color screen.
> >
> > I have no problem with seeing the image on my 196.
> >
> > The contrast can be adjusted to help clear up your picture.
> >
> > I have a 60cx color map I use on the ATV. It does work great in
> > direct sun light. In fact=2C better than in some lighting
> > conditions. It does not have the Jeppesen data base.
> >
> > john h
> > mkIII
> > Rock House=2C Oregon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digit
al tv's.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
What engine?
Only thing I could get to work correctly on my 912 engines were Rotax
tachs from Lockwood.
I tried a UMA initially, but could not get it to work. After many calls
to UMA techs, was sent another. It duplicated the same errors. I
wanted a 3", but settled for the Rotax 2".
john h
mkIII
I put a 270 degree sweep UMA in while upgrading the electrics /
panel. It was good for the first two hours
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Rick,
I can't answer your question but would like to suggest using a portable optical
tach to check accuracy on any tach you use. They are available from many aircraft
supplier sources. Shop around to save some money. I think I paid around $50
for mine a few years ago.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263183#263183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
I think I paid around $50 for mine a few years ago.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I use a radio control aircraft prop tach. Got it on line for about $25.00.
Has 2, 3, and I think 4 blade capability. Works great. Yes, I check new
tachs and do a periodic tach check as I build hours.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Ah, I was in luck. here we are:
nice CCW rotation
excellent steering wheels
130 VNE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VGs and Manuvering Speed |
| From: | "David Lucas" <d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com> |
> Will the addition of vortex generators lower my maneuvering speed?
I read an article about this some time back. It was an AvWeb article back in 1997
that I'd saved to a 'safe place'. So safe it's taken me until now to find it
[Embarassed]
Here's the reference; http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182564-1.html
About three quarters of the way down the article it covers this point starting
with; . . . . "Another question that has come up frequently is whether the addition
of vortex generators has an adverse effect on Design Maneuvering Speed (Va).
" . . . . and the next 4 paragraphs go on to discuss the issue. It's a good
read.
Basically, and referring to certified aircraft, Va (maneuvering speed) is a formula
derived figure based on Vs (stall speed). It is a theoretical figure and
is not flight tested or verified for certification. But if the stall speed goes
down then the maneuvering speed also goes down too. However, from a certification
viewpoint, there is no requirement to revise the Va figure downwards after
the installation of VG's . . . . So they don't.
So the answer to your question is; Yes . . . .Sort of !
David.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263275#263275
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
Here's something I haven't seen addressed anywhere.
The Cuyuna manual gives 1200=B0F as the "best power" EGT and 1275=B0 as the
never exceed. On my UltraStar, I shoot for no more than 1200 during
static runup (and I do a static runup until EGT stabilizes as part of every
preflight). 1150 is typical, which gives me a safe buffer for EGT gague
error, etc.
At cruise power, however (55-5800 rpm), the EGT is a bit higher, right
around 1200. If I drop the needle one notch (the clip is currently in the
second highest notch), the engine has a tendency to bog and in some cases
it's reluctant to increase to full RPM from cruise. It seems to be happy
where it is.
I know the EGT should climb when you slightly close the throttle from wide
open, as the needle drops, but is it normal (or desirable) to have the
cruise EGT higher than full throttle? At slower midrange settings (<5000
rpm) the EGT drops as I'd expect.
About my only complaint with the engine is the
mmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMM between 5000-5500 rpm, which I attribute to
exhaust/prop interference (2:1 reduction less normal belt slippage).
ULII-02, correctly propped (Culver 50X30, 6500 static rpm), Mikuni VM-32
carb.
-Dana
--
Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Firestar vs Ultrastar |
I flew my buddy's Firestar II for the first time yesterday. I was
expecting it to fly much like my UltraStar, oh, a little faster and heavier
of course, but I was surprised at how different it was. In particular I
was surprised how very heavy the ailerons are. I could get to really
liking the FS, particularly the performance (even with his rather tired 503
compared to my Cuyuna), but I can also see why a number of people have
described the US as being the best handling of the bunch.
I'm now curious, where does the Firefly fit in in the handling
spectrum? Light like the US or more like the FS which it resembles?
-Dana
--
Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
In my experience, the Firefly is lighter than the Firestar, but the FS's
weren't exactly heavy!
I've not flown a US, so maybe Mr. Hauck will have to chime in.
-- Robert
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> I flew my buddy's Firestar II for the first time yesterday. I was
> expecting it to fly much like my UltraStar, oh, a little faster and heavier
> of course, but I was surprised at how *different* it was. In particular I
> was surprised how very heavy the ailerons are. I could get to really liking
> the FS, particularly the performance (even with his rather tired 503
> compared to my Cuyuna), but I can also see why a number of people have
> described the US as being the best handling of the bunch.
>
> I'm now curious, where does the Firefly fit in in the handling spectrum?
> Light like the US or more like the FS which it resembles?
>
> -Dana
> --
> Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
>
I'm now curious, where does the Firefly fit in in the handling spectrum?
Light like the US or more like the FS which it resembles?
>
Dana,
When my FireFly had the original long chord ailerons, they were almost
impossible to deflect at cruise speeds. It made cross country flying in
rough air a terror and guaranteed a sore shoulder. Made it impossible to
land in gusty cross winds.
After reducing my ailerons to a nine inch chord and modifying the linkages,
one can deflect the ailerons at any speed with two fingers. No problems
keeping the wings level in rough air.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:54:46 -0400
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
>
About my only complaint with the engine is the mmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMM
between 5000-5500 rpm, which I attribute to exhaust/prop interference (2:1
reduction less normal belt slippage).
>
Dana,
I had a similar problem with the FireFly, until I streamlined my struts. It
stiffened them and they stopped strumming.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
[quote="Dana"]I flew my buddy's Firestar II for the first time yesterday. I was
expecting it to fly much like my UltraStar, oh, a little faster and heavier
of course, but I was surprised at how different it was. In particular I was surprised
how very heavy the ailerons are. I could get to really liking the FS,
particularly the performance (even with his rather tired 503 compared to my
Cuyuna), but I can also see why a number of people have described the US as being
the best handling of the bunch.
I'm now curious, where does the Firefly fit in in the handling spectrum? Light
like the US or more like the FS which it resembles?
-Dana
--
Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.
> [b]
I agree that the stock FSII has heavy ailerons. Here is what we did to lighten
them up:
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSII%20ailerons.html
Not sure about a Firefly, ask Beauford... he'll tell you, and it will be worth
what ya paid for it...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263365#263365
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, Guys,
I have a Garmin 196 and it's worked well for me for years. I've been tempted to
upgrade to the color 296, but it is reputed to eat batteries to power that nice
display. Now in my Kolb, I've got it wired to the ship's battery, so power
is no longer a problem.
What I'd like to gain, is better depiction of airspace. My 196 just gives little
dotted lines for Class D. I can't remember for sure, but the Class C might
be solid lines. With all the rest of the clutter it would be nice if the airspace
were depicted more distinctly like in a special color, since in S. Florida,
there's a LOT of airspace to avoid.
Can anyone tell me if the 296 addresses this issue?
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263382#263382
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I had a chance to fly this morning with the VGs installed as stated in my previous
post. Partial results follow:
Before VGs
Clean stall break at 45 mph indicated.
Cruise speed (TAS) 80 mph at 3,000' Density Altitude at 2,640 rpm which is about
62-63% power.
After VGs on wings only, as described previously.
I ran out of nose up elevator at 42 mph IAS with plenty of roll control available.
I'll have to install VGs under horizontal stabilizer to hopefully get more
elevator function at high AOA so I can find out the new actual stall speed.
I did my normal cruise speed upwind/downwind average at 2,640 rpm today and got
61.4 mph upwind and 98.4 mph downwind for an average of 79.9 mph with VGs. Before
I was getting 80 mph at that rpm. BUT today's test was at 1,800' DA (overcast
would not let me climb higher) and earlier test was at 3,000' DA. Because
of the difference in DA the two cruise speeds are not directly comparable but
they are close, probably within 1 mph of the same at the same DA. I will test
again, hopefully at 3,000' DA after I get the HS VGs installed.
Conclusions so far:
My home-made VGs located about 3/8" further back than the recommended 10% of chord,
definitely reduces the stall speed and apparently results in only a relatively
minor reduction in cruise speed at a given engine rpm. I will add the horizontal
stabilizer VGs with hopes of gaining a bit more nose up pitch to get
an actual stall break at some speed slower than 42 mph.
Subjective results:
Excellent roll control at slowest attainable speed of 42 mph IAS. Softer, slower
landing speed with tendency for tail to touchdown first at this slower speed
with higher AOA. That will require slight modification of my landing technique
to avoid tail first touch-downs. The electrical tape held the VGs on without
a problem at 80 mph cruise speed.
My home-made VGs are staying on this airplane! The SS is a fine handling airplane
without VGs but better still, in my opinion, with them.
Stay tuned for further updates when the VG installation is complete.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263385#263385
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Glad they're working out for you, Thom!
Enjoy,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263386#263386
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
At 04:36 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hi, Guys,
>I have a Garmin 196 and it's worked well for me for years. I've been
>tempted to upgrade to the color 296, but it is reputed to eat
>batteries to power that nice display. Now in my Kolb, I've got it
>wired to the ship's battery, so power is no longer a problem.
>What I'd like to gain, is better depiction of airspace. My 196 just
>gives little dotted lines for Class D. I can't remember for sure,
>but the Class C might be solid lines. With all the rest of the
>clutter it would be nice if the airspace were depicted more
>distinctly like in a special color, since in S. Florida, there's a
>LOT of airspace to avoid.
>Can anyone tell me if the 296 addresses this issue?
>Dave
Check it out
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP296_PilotsGuide.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
Dave=2C
I highly recommend you visit the Garmin website=2C and view their "featur
es" that they have for the 296.
I copied and pasted the following typical screen sample for you. Yes=2C
the view looks just like their sample.
The Garmin 296 has the Jeppesen data base for it's navigation basemaps.
Check out the following:
http://www.garmin.com/garmin/cms/site/us/support/searchsupport?search_key
=GPSMAP 296
Here is the sample screen view:
Btw=2C I have a great way to keep from worrying about using up your batte
ries. Send me an email=2C and I'll let you knoiw.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: GPS question
> From: david.watkins0(at)gmail.com
> Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 13:36:43 -0700
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hi=2C Guys=2C
> I have a Garmin 196 and it's worked well for me for years. I've been temp
ted to upgrade to the color 296=2C but it is reputed to eat batteries to po
wer that nice display. Now in my Kolb=2C I've got it wired to the ship's ba
ttery=2C so power is no longer a problem.
> What I'd like to gain=2C is better depiction of airspace. My 196 just giv
es little dotted lines for Class D. I can't remember for sure=2C but the Cl
ass C might be solid lines. With all the rest of the clutter it would be ni
ce if the airspace were depicted more distinctly like in a special color=2C
since in S. Florida=2C there's a LOT of airspace to avoid.
> Can anyone tell me if the 296 addresses this issue?
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263382#263382
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
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a=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
At 03:19 PM 9/16/2009, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>-
>I had a similar problem with the FireFly, until I streamlined my struts. It
>stiffened them and they stopped strumming.
In my case I don't think it's the struts, as I can reach back and grab them
while flying with no effect. I'm retty sure it's the exhaust/prop interaction.
-Dana
--
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
Dave=2C
It is time to move up to the newer 296. It's hard to put all the feature
s of a color GPS in a basic reply such as this=2C but the advancement diffe
rences between the 196 and 296 are huge!!
How about color?? What is really difficult to put into words is the way
a color screen augments your enjoyment of navigating with it.
Example: As you are flying along=2C winding your way through a wide rive
r gorge=2C ALL surrounding terrain that is your elevation=2C or higher turn
s RED!! So=2C even if your were to encounter fog=2C or smoke=2C or whateve
r=2C you can see which direction to keep the plane pointed.
Plus=2C if you climb out of the gorge=2C you'll see the surrounding terrain
return to it's proper green/brown color=2C indicating you are no longer in
danger of having a dirt sandwich.
I have flown two 900 mile cross-country flights. The first was with my o
ld Garmin 95XL. I lost GPS coverage briefly=2C due to turbulence. It was
"okay". Just okay!
The second CC trip was with my 296. Night and day difference!!! The new
one has many=2C many features that make navigation 100th the challenge it
used to be. ("challenge" is an affectionate term. It's usually a blast to
fly=2C but it also requires some work. The 296 makes the "work" fun.)
I'd like to point out the obvious. I NEVER=2C NEVER rely on just a GPS f
or navigation. I also plot my routes the old fashioned way=2C with Jep cha
rts and a watch=2C etc=2C etc=2C etc. Too important to leave up to just on
e "tool".
Again=2C I point out my experiences are with Garmin products. I recogniz
e there are many other fine GPSes=2C although may not be quite as popular a
s the industry leader. Most of the top selling models of many brands would
be a great idea.
Best regards=2C Mike Welch
PS. There are usually several used 296's on eBay. A lot of guys move up t
o the 396 and 496=2C etc. Perfect condition used ones go for about $600=2C
the last time I looked. Worth checking out......
_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digit
al tv's.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=W
LHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
I use the 295 and there is a Green ring around the airspace and when you move your
cursor inside it it will pop up a label telling you what the evevations are
for that particular airspace
Ellery in MAINE?getting ready for some cool fall flying?
-----Original Message-----
From: Watkinsdw <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 16, 2009 4:36 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: GPS question
Hi, Guys,
I have a Garmin 196 and it's worked well for me for years. I've been tempted to
upgrade to the color 296, but it is reputed to eat batteries to power that nice
display. Now in my Kolb, I've got it wired to the ship's battery, so power is no
longer a problem.
What I'd like to gain, is better depiction of airspace. My 196 just gives little
dotted lines for Class D. I can't remember for sure, but the Class C might be
solid lines. With all the rest of the clutter it would be nice if the airspace
were depicted more distinctly like in a special color, since in S. Florida,
there's a LOT of airspace to avoid.
Can anyone tell me if the 296 addresses this issue?
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263382#263382
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jon LaVasseur <firestar503(at)yahoo.com> |
Is there going to be an event at London, Ky this fall? If so what date(s)?
Jon L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Dana/Gang:
EGT sounds about like I would want my ULII02 to operate, if I can
remember correctly after 24 years.
Also, the ULII02 is transitioning from being "off the pipe" to "coming
on the pipe" at rpm between 5,000 and 5,000. Mine would never settle
down in this rpm range. I usually flew at 5,800 rpm cross country, and
any rpm when I was playing, and I played a lot with my Ultrastar!
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon - Just in from fishing the Owyhee and bring home the
small mouth bass and blue cat fish.
About my only complaint with the engine is the
mmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMMMmmmmmMMMM between 5000-5500 rpm, which I attribute
to exhaust/prop interference (2:1 reduction less normal belt slippage).
ULII-02, correctly propped (Culver 50X30, 6500 static rpm), Mikuni
VM-32 carb.
-Dana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
At 07:35 PM 9/16/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>Dana/Gang:
>
>EGT sounds about like I would want my ULII02 to operate, if I can remember
>correctly after 24 years.
>
>Also, the ULII02 is transitioning from being "off the pipe" to "coming on
>the pipe" at rpm between 5,000 and 5,000. Mine would never settle down in
>this rpm range. I usually flew at 5,800 rpm cross country, and any rpm
>when I was playing, and I played a lot with my Ultrastar!
Sounds good. It "feels" right, but I wanted to compare my numbers with
others. Same here, it doesn't like to hold an rpm between 5-5500. Doesn't
really look like any kind of tuned exhaust, though, unless there's a
diverging/converging setup inside the muffler.
I "play" less than I'd like to, due to the age of the airframe and the fact
that I personally didn't build it. The aerobatic ultralight I'm designing
now will take care of that urge, though... :)
-Dana
--
People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
Tell us about the new project.
BB
On 16, Sep 2009, at 8:09 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 07:35 PM 9/16/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>> Dana/Gang:
>>
>> EGT sounds about like I would want my ULII02 to operate, if I can
>> remember correctly after 24 years.
>>
>> Also, the ULII02 is transitioning from being "off the pipe" to
>> "coming on the pipe" at rpm between 5,000 and 5,000. Mine would
>> never settle down in this rpm range. I usually flew at 5,800 rpm
>> cross country, and any rpm when I was playing, and I played a lot
>> with my Ultrastar!
>
> Sounds good. It "feels" right, but I wanted to compare my numbers
> with others. Same here, it doesn't like to hold an rpm between
> 5-5500. Doesn't really look like any kind of tuned exhaust,
> though, unless there's a diverging/converging setup inside the
> muffler.
>
> I "play" less than I'd like to, due to the age of the airframe and
> the fact that I personally didn't build it. The aerobatic
> ultralight I'm designing now will take care of that urge, though... :)
>
> -Dana
> --
> People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
I bought my 196 when they first came out. Made a lot of flights with
it, in my mkIII, all over the North American Continent. It does
everything I need to navigate, plus a lot of stuff I don't use.
It has triple capability, Air, Land, Sea. Have not used it in the Sea
mode, but have tried to wear it out in the Air and Land modes.
I paid 830.00, Sun and Fun Special, for my 196. Worth every penny of
it.
Now days you can pick up a new one cheap, or find a used or refurbished
one even cheaper.
The 296 has a few more bells and whistles than the 196, but some how I
have learned to live without them.
I have had two other Garmin Aviation GPS's, my first a 55AVD which took
me to Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, and around the border of the
Continental US, and my second, a used 95XL that took me to Point Barrow,
AK, back to Oshkosh, WI, and home to Alabama.
All that flying without color display too.
How much turbulence is required to lose GPS coverage?
john h
mkIII
It is time to move up to the newer 296. Best regards, Mike Welch
PS. There are usually several used 296's on eBay. A lot of guys move
up to the 396 and 496, etc. Perfect condition used ones go for about
$600, the last time I looked. Worth checking out......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
John H=2C
I knew you'd chime in about how well your 196 has served you. You might
have noticed I didn't put it down. But=2C the fact of the matter is=2C the
296 has a heck of a lot more to it than just color=2C or bells and whistle
s. (although the color alone is a biggie)
Maybe Garmin should not waste their time on any new models.
How much turbulence does it take to knock out coverage (on a 95XL)? Don'
t exactly know. I guess the amount I flew through.
You may rest assured you can live without the bells and whistles of a new
er 296. It=2C like VGs=2C is a personal decision every pilot gets to make
their own mind about.
Mike Welch
MkIIICX
From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Modern GPSes
Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 19:09:15 -0600
I bought my 196 when they first came out. Made a lot of flights with it=2C
in my mkIII=2C all over the North American Continent. It does everything
I need to navigate=2C plus a lot of stuff I don't use.
It has triple capability=2C Air=2C Land=2C Sea. Have not used it in the Se
a mode=2C but have tried to wear it out in the Air and Land modes.
I paid 830.00=2C Sun and Fun Special=2C for my 196. Worth every penny of i
t.
Now days you can pick up a new one cheap=2C or find a used or refurbished o
ne even cheaper.
The 296 has a few more bells and whistles than the 196=2C but some how I ha
ve learned to live without them.
I have had two other Garmin Aviation GPS's=2C my first a 55AVD which took m
e to Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay=2C Alaska=2C and around the border of the Conti
nental US=2C and my second=2C a used 95XL that took me to Point Barrow=2C A
K=2C back to Oshkosh=2C WI=2C and home to Alabama.
All that flying without color display too.
How much turbulence is required to lose GPS coverage?
john h
mkIII
It is time to move up to the newer 296. Best regards=2C Mike Welch
PS. There are usually several used 296's on eBay. A lot of guys move up t
o the 396 and 496=2C etc. Perfect condition used ones go for about $600=2C
the last time I looked. Worth checking out......
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Maneuvering speed |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I remembered reading these after the Airbus Crash on Long Island. Since some
of you guys repeated the old myths about Va, I thought you might be
interested.
http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=527
http://www.flyingmag.com/accidents/545/aa587-the-perils-of-flying-by-the-book.html
Good read, food for thought.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Just as Mike W's response to John H's response to....? came in, the banner
over my Inbox declared that according to the Discovery Channel "Monkeys have
been cured of Color Blindness". Now I think this is a perfect opportunity
for someone wanting to pick up a good used 196, since all those previously
color blind monkeys will surely want to upgrade. I can just see the eBay
header now. I don't know if I'd believe the claim about the GPS never being
exposed to pooh throwing as monkeys, even color blind ones, are known for
such activity and when they're navigating from tree to tree and a pooh fight
breaks out, well even the best protected unit will probably get a splash or
two. I have heard that the Discovery Channel will do a special about color
blind pilots cleaning monkey pooh from Garmin products and all the pitfalls
thereof, but this is most likely just a rumor.Weather is finally clearing
out and I'm just a little giddy about going flying in the morning, that's
all.
Ya'll have fun out there,
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maneuvering speed |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
[quote="aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com"]I remembered reading these after the Airbus Crash
on Long Island. Since some of you guys repeated the old myths about Va, I thought
you might be interested.
http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=527 (http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=527)
http://www.flyingmag.com/accidents/545/aa587-the-perils-of-flying-by-the-book.html (http://www.flyingmag.com/accidents/545/aa587-the-perils-of-flying-by-the-book.html)
Good read, food for thought.
Rick Girard
> [b]
I think I'll keep off (and keep my family off) Airbus A300's.
And as far as Va on the MKIII? When it get's horribly trashy, I fly around 50 anyway,
so it's all good.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263443#263443
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Maneuvering speed |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I'm a two time Boeing employee and I'd go back for a third time in a hot
minute if asked, so I'm not exactly unbiased, but the tails don't fall off,
the computer doesn't tell the pilot what he can or can't have in an
emergency and the pitot tubes have never failed on a Boeing either, to my
knowledge. It may take throwing away two to build one, but the end result is
a darn good airplane. I wonder how many Airbuses (Airbeese?) will be around
after 50 years like the KC-135 and the B-52.Okay, I shouldn't have started
in. It just makes me mad when I think about our Air Force buying Airbus
tankers.
Rick Girard
It better be Boeing or I ain't going
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> [quote="aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com"]I remembered reading these after the
> Airbus Crash on Long Island. Since some of you guys repeated the old myths
> about Va, I thought you might be interested.
>
> http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=527 (
> http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=527)
>
>
> http://www.flyingmag.com/accidents/545/aa587-the-perils-of-flying-by-the-book.html(
> http://www.flyingmag.com/accidents/545/aa587-the-perils-of-flying-by-the-book.html
> )
>
>
> Good read, food for thought.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> > [b]
>
>
> I think I'll keep off (and keep my family off) Airbus A300's.
> And as far as Va on the MKIII? When it get's horribly trashy, I fly around
> 50 anyway, so it's all good.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263443#263443
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
Mike W/Gang:
Shucks!
Figured everyone on the List is entitled to their own opinion. You
shared yours, and I shared mine.
I also figured folks should know the 196 is not prehistoric, but a good
reliable, well proven piece of equipment.
Like all the equipment on my airplanes and my person, I try to keep
things simple, in order to suscessfully complete my flights and enjoy
them at the same time.
Did you know my avionics package consist of the cheapest, smallest
handheld radio sold by ICOM? That little A3 and my 196 are the extent
of my avionics package. Those two little items are all I need to do
some serious cross country flying.
I want to impress on the members of this List that a lot of expensive
equipment is not necessary in order to go out and have good, fun, safe
flying, locally, or across the country, or internationally.
My flying buddy, John Williamson, flew with a 296. He liked it. I used
to play with his 296, and enjoyed the features it had that my grey scale
196 did not have. However, those features were not necessary to help me
make successful long cross country flights.
Oh...I think Garmin should still continue to produce newer and better
models. Don't think I insinuated they shouldn't.
Color is great. I have a 60cx color map on my Honda Rincon. Works
great and I love the color. Easy to see in direct sunlight. I use it
every time I ride. I used it today riding to the Owyhee River Canyon to
fish.
Someone on the Kolb List informed us of losing GPS coverage because of
turbulence some years ago. Personally, I seriously doubt turbulence has
anything to do with GPS reception, but I could be wrong.
How did you know it was turbulence that caused lose of GPS reception?
BTW: The 296 is only a tad newer than the 196. I can't remember when
it came on the market, but it was very shortly after the 196. It is
also old technology, like my GPS, but I am sure it still kicks ass.
john h - Who can see his little 60cx color map in the desert sun of SE
Oregon.
MKIII
I knew you'd chime in about how well your 196 has served you. You
might have noticed I didn't put it down. But, the fact of the matter
is, the 296 has a heck of a lot more to it than just color, or bells and
whistles. (although the color alone is a biggie)
Maybe Garmin should not waste their time on any new models.
How much turbulence does it take to knock out coverage (on a 95XL)?
Don't exactly know. I guess the amount I flew through.
You may rest assured you can live without the bells and whistles of
a newer 296. It, like VGs, is a personal decision every pilot gets to
make their own mind about.
Mike Welch
MkIIICX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Maneuvering speed |
> And as far as Va on the MKIII? When it get's horribly trashy, I fly
around 50 anyway, so it's all good.
>
> Richard Pike
I'm with you, Rev/Gang:
As I shared the other day, when it is rough enough for Maneuver Speed, I am
automatically there in my mkIII.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Possums did a mod to the ailerons on his Firestar, The mods look good in the pictures
he posted, I wonder if they lightened the aileron forces over the stock
Firestar ?? It would be worth asking him.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263454#263454
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
Mike W/Gang:
I really do not know why GPS coverage is lost with no explanation.
However, over the years I have experienced blank spots that lasted,
usually, about 30 minutes at a time while flying cross country at about
80 mph or more ground speed. That would equate to about a 40 mile
diameter circle, or distance.
I think it was 2005, we were flying to the Outer Banks in NC on the way
to the Kolb Flyin. There were 5 of us Kolbs in the flight. I know John
W and I lost GPS coverage at the same time and for the same distance. I
thought I had a bad antenna or coax cable. Just prior to arriving
Trenton, SC, the GPS coverage returned. No turbulence this day.
Another time in Alberta, Canada, lost coverage. Landed on a gravel
road, replaced antenna and coax, but still no gps coverage. A few
minutes later gps coverage returned.
Other times I have lost gps coverage, but can not remember the details.
Larry C suggested maybe you went inverted and masked the gps antenna
momentarily. Did you? ;-)
As far as I can remember I have never lost gps coverage in turbulence.
My experience only.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
That was me that stated that before. You are entitled to any
opinion you want. How do I know it was turbulence that caused the
coverage to go out
for a few minutes at a time?
Seeing as how I was there,and I was watching the GPS, and riding the
bumps, that's the conclusion that I came to.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
Nobody believes me, but I was there.>
Hi Mike,
it is not a matter of believing that you saw what you said you saw but
suggesting another explanation. I cannot see that shaking a GPS could
cause loss of signal. Pretty easily checked. Shake it.
If you had a radio in your car which stopped working on a bumpy road I
don`t think you would put it down to loss of signal. You would go
looking for a loose connection somewhere.
Still...you were there
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
All this talk about reducing speed in rough conditions!. Seems pretty
obvious to me that if it is rough you reduce speed to reduce the strain
on the plane.
Its just what you would do in your car. If its rough you take your foot
off the pedal.
Interesting piece about the pilot tearing the fin off an Airbus by
hammering the fin from side to side. I thought the basic design
philosophy of the Airbus was that the pilots inputs were smoothed by
putting them through a computer which stopped him doing that sort of
thing.
Flying to New Zealand in Feb. and I have specified no flights by Airbus.
Feel a bit of a traitor as the wings are built only about 20 miles from
home but I don`t like some of the stuff which is circulating on the net.
In fact there is so much of it I wonder sometimes if some of the stories
are not perpetrated by Boeing.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz> |
You could always ask for a wing sea
Tony
Downunder
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: man. speedA
All this talk about reducing speed in rough conditions!. Seems pretty
obvious to me that if it is rough you reduce speed to reduce the strain
on the plane.
Its just what you would do in your car. If its rough you take your
foot off the pedal.
Interesting piece about the pilot tearing the fin off an Airbus by
hammering the fin from side to side. I thought the basic design
philosophy of the Airbus was that the pilots inputs were smoothed by
putting them through a computer which stopped him doing that sort of
thing.
Flying to New Zealand in Feb. and I have specified no flights by
Airbus. Feel a bit of a traitor as the wings are built only about 20
miles from home but I don`t like some of the stuff which is circulating
on the net. In fact there is so much of it I wonder sometimes if some of
the stories are not perpetrated by Boeing.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
At 12:16 AM 9/17/2009, robert bean wrote:
>If you want to get down to bare bones, I have an eTrex (that can be bought
>now for mini $$$) that will do what is really
>necessary. Tells you which way to point, how many miles left,
>groundspeed, altitude.
>
>Works fine. A whole lot better than an Omni. (remember them things?)
>
>only drawback is not being a genuine aviation gps so entering coordinates
>is a PITA...
I wrote a program that will create an airport database for any non-aviation
Garmin GPS that can accept custom POI's (points of interest). Airports
only, no airspace, direct from the FAA online database... saves punching in
numbers and has frequency and contact information. I use it with my Garmin
60CSx in my Kolb... I don't own an aviation GPS, and can't justify spending
the money for the limited amount of cross country flying I do... hell, when
I had my T-Craft I flew all over the eastern US without any electronics at all!
If anybody wants to try it, or wants more info, let me know.
-Dana
--
The early bird catches the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the
cheese.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
| From: | "2danglico" <john.tempest(at)basf.com> |
My first GPS (on Ellery's recommendation) was a 295. So I never had a greyscale
model. But I also have had thoughts of upgrading, after all, the 295 is rather
long in tooth, and the 296 offers alot more features.
Then I thought about what I need in a GPS that the 295 doesn't deliver, the answer
I came to was, nothing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263490#263490
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "2danglico" <john.tempest(at)basf.com> |
Recently I replaced my instr. panel to make room for my GPS. I decided to leave
out my needle sweep tach and go with just the tiny tach. It was the one I referenced
while flying, because it was easier to see - and discern 5400 from 5500,
used less space, and while I've only had it timed once, proved to be balls
on accurate.
John Tempest
Firestar 447
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263493#263493
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
Mike W/Gang:
I started flying with GPS in 1993, a Garmin 55AVD. In 1994, I flew a 41
day cross country without ever losing GPS coverage. That flight covered
a lot of territory. The 55AVD had no moving map.
The 95XL had a tiny moving map.
The 196 was like big screen TV compared to my old GPS units. I believe
the screen and unit size is the same as the 296.
What I have noticed over the last 16 years of using GPS on land, air,
and sea, is the newer units have much faster processors and the ability
to acquire satelites much quicker.
I use a Comant GPS antenna mounted on top of the center section. I
bought this antenna in 1993. It works as good as the antenna that comes
with the units. I have used this antenna with all three of my GPS units
I use in the airplane.
I also use aircraft 12VDC to power the GPS, ICOM A3, and my ANR headset.
I hate spending money for batteries.
john h
mkIII
The newer ones have many times the dependablity
of the early 1990's models.
Fortunately, GPSes have come a very long way since those early days.
Even the 196 is far better than my old 95XL. I usually only had 4
moderate strength satellites(out of a possible 8). Turning the unit's
antenna significantly affected the bar graph of the signal strength.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Dave Watkins, thanks for posting your set up and findings.
I would like to know if you put any VG's in the area past the last outboard rib
(in between the last rib and wingtip bow).
Jason
MKIIIC Yamaha Powered
Portland, OR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263522#263522
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPS question |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Guys.
I knew I could count on a lively discussion of the pros and cons of the upgrade.
(Please don't get on each other's case on my account.) I went the the Garmin
website and the screen shots show airspace (Class D, C and B) depicted in blue.
That's a little easier to pick out than the grey and black lines on my 196.
I'd like it even better if it would be user-configur-able to make those lines
bright red. (it sounds like if you put the curser on it, the color might change,
and that could help.) Need to get my hands on a 296 and play with it...
I like to fly with as much stuff on the screen as I can get, and that's probably
part of the problem. The 196 lets you select features to enable/disable on the
map to manage the clutter. (You can also press "Enter" to declutter..) Can't
have it both ways, (as my wife reminds me all the time,) but I keep trying!
I think I'll check ebay. If so, I might have a great 196 to offer here for sale...
That said, we all know, the most important picture to focus on is what's outside
that great lexan bubble we call a cockpit.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263529#263529
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, Jason,
I elected not to place them beyond the last full rib. This was on the recommendation
of Joa Harrison, the designer. I see Mike Bigelow has his all the way out
to the wingtip bow, and someday, we'll hook up and try some side-by-side comparisons.
My reported figures were at max gross weight, about 1050.
They were ridiculous with only one occupant. My memory is fuzzy, but I think I
was stalling clean at about 25. With one notch of flaps, it was in the teens.
I felt like I could have got out and walked and measured the true airspeed with
a pedometer. Of course there was significant instrument error at those high
angles of attack, so this is clearly subjective.
Have fun -- that's what this is all about as near as I can tell.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263534#263534
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Bixler <tocprez(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS oil cooler damage |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
- Last spring I installed a new gas line, and while looking the plane ove
r I saw that it had collapsed at a mild radius.- The hose below the gas l
evel was all mushy.- The line above the gas level is firm.- The hose wa
s acquired at a local auto parts store, and is marked as follows:- 09 13
08 Z------- 50PSI--- Fuel/Emission--- SAE 30R7-
-- Made in USA-- Goodyear
-
- I am replacing it with a Gates hose, also marked SAE 30R7.- The fuel
in the tank has 10% alcohol in it, plus Penzoil 2-stroke oil, plus Stabil.
- The last time I ran it, it sounded funny at higher throttle settings.
- I believe it was starved for gas, due to the hose sucking flat.- Luck
ily, it is not ready for flight and was only run in my back yard.
-
- Has anyone else noticed this problem?-
-
-------------------------
------------------------ Bi
ll Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------------ Wi
ndsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------------------ FS
447
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
My VG's go all the way to the bow tip, although I think Joe Harrison was correct
that they probably don't do any good there. There is really no airfoil for
the last 1.5 feet of the wingtip, and I doubt a VG will work where there is
no airfoil. I stuck them on because I had them, and I figured they would not
do any harm there.
This will change when I put the Hornier style wingtips on the MK III Xtra, I will
have a true airfoil all the way out to the tip, not wasting 3 feet of wingspan
on a flat board that provides no benefit.
My Stall speed is not as low as Dave's, I am looking forward to getting a look
at his plane very well to see what he did ! I also don't have Vortex Generators
under my horizontal stabilizer, just for the reason of being lazy , I need
to put them on soon.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263564#263564
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modern GPSes |
At 08:22 AM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>My first GPS (on Ellery's recommendation) was a 295. So I never had
>a greyscale model. But I also have had thoughts of upgrading, after
>all, the 295 is rather long in tooth, and the 296 offers alot more features.
>
>Then I thought about what I need in a GPS that the 295 doesn't
>deliver, the answer I came to was, nothing.
That's what I got - a good ole' outdated 295.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
>
>
This will change when I put the Hornier style wingtips on the MK III Xtra,
I will have a true airfoil all the way out to the tip, not wasting 3 feet of
wingspan on a flat board that provides no benefit.
>
Mike
That flat three feet outboard may not generate lift, but it does show benefit
in that it pushes the tip vortex outward, increases wing aspect ratio which
reduces induced drag.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
At 10:50 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>
>Possums did a mod to the ailerons on his Firestar, The mods look
>good in the pictures he posted, I wonder if they lightened the
>aileron forces over the stock Firestar ?? It would be worth asking him.
>
>Mike
>
>--------
>"NO FEAR" -
It's the drooped wing tips - I took off the ailerons
last time I did a major rehab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
- Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in the y
ard.- I don't think it was affected by it, but you never know.- I was g
oing to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned that it would collaps
e under suction.- I still wonder if it's the alcohol.- If alcohol makes
me soft and mushy, maybe it does the same to neoprene.
-
-------------------------
--------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
--------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
--------------- FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:
> Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in the
> yard. I don't think it was affected by it, but you never know. I was
> going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned that it would
> collapse under suction. I still wonder if it's the alcohol. If alcohol
> makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the same to neoprene.
I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is harder, less
susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer. You still need to replace it
every couple of years. I think it's the sunlight (UV) that does most of
the damage.
The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing", is a
vinyl product. Tygothane is something different, a polyurethane product,
and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.
There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away, they're
cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.
I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see what's
inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.
-Dana
--
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Jack thank you for your last you-said it finer than I am capable- of sa
ying it-! Chris=0A-Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisab
led from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matroni
cs.com=0ASent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:08:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-
>=0A>=0AThis will change when I put the Hornier style wingtips on the MK II
I Xtra, =0AI will have a true airfoil all the way out to the tip, not wasti
ng 3 feet of =0Awingspan on a flat board that provides no benefit.=0A>=0A
=0AMike=0A=0AThat flat three feet outboard may not generate lift, but it do
es show benefit =0Ain that it pushes the tip vortex outward, increases wing
aspect ratio which =0Areduces induced drag. =0A=0AJack B. Hart FF004=0AWin
==================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
At 04:01 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>At 10:50 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>Possums did a mod to the ailerons on his Firestar, The mods look
>>good in the pictures he posted, I wonder if they lightened the
>>aileron forces over the stock Firestar ?? It would be worth asking him.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>--------
>>"NO FEAR" -
I thought they changed the ailerons to the shorter ones on the
Firestar anyway?
I don't have any real good pictures of the "barn door" ailerons on my
old Firestar
except for these. They were tough to push at cruse speed.
My new (if 10 years old is new) thing has shorter, tapered ailerons
from (10 inches down to 8 inches? I forget))
They work a lot better & faster. I still have plenty of control a
slow/landing speeds.
VG's help a lot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Possums,
What is the " Geographic " on the tail boom ? The new plane looks real nice, I
like the little changes you made. Do you think the sharp trailing edges lighten
the control forces from the standard round tube trailing edges we have ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263604#263604
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
>
> That flat three feet outboard may not generate lift, but it does show benefit
in that it pushes the tip vortex outward, increases wing aspect ratio which reduces
induced drag.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester,
Jack,
The wingtip vortex may be outward of the airfoil on the current design wing, but
it still flows around the tip, and hits the top of the wing. If you remember
John H Test flights of the factory MK III Xtra, its stall numbers were much
lower with pure wing out to the end of the aileron even though it had no tip
at all. The same span new Kolb wing without any span wasted on the useless flat
wingtips has more lift than the old Kolb wing, and LESS induced drag. The
wing with the current flat wingtips actually INCREASE induced drag because of
all the area wasted where there is no airfoil, the opposite of what you claim.
The tests have been done and the results are in... The new wing design on the
factory Kolb MK III Xtra stalls at a significantly lower airspeed with no wingtip
at all, The old design wing that we all have now has less lift due to wasting
several feet of its span, and has higher induced drag.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=41264
Kolb changed the design for a reason, its been tested, and proven. Some can theorize
and talk about how great the current wingtip is all they want, its not
going to change the facts.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263606#263606
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
> What is the " Geographic " on the tail boom ? The new plane looks real
nice, I like the little changes you made. Do you think the sharp trailing
edges lighten the control forces from the standard round tube trailing edges
we have ?
>
> Mike
Mike B/Gang:
I think the size of the ailerons on Kolbs are what load them up as speed
builds.
When I built my mkIII I reduced the cord of the ailerons and the flaps, plus
played with the mechanical advantage to help lighten stick pressure.
Homer built his airplanes to fly slow, not fast. Larger ailerons help
maintain roll control right through the mush and stall. Something nice to
have if we screw up.
My ailerons still load up above 65 or 70 mph, but I have learned to live
with this condition. It is not a safety factor, in my opinion. If you want
something with snappier roll rate, get a FF or SS.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
I would imagine a sharp trailing edge would only reduce drag and look better
My two cents worth
Ellery in MAINE
-----Original Message-----
From: JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 8:19 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar
Possums,
What is the " Geographic " on the tail boom ? The new plane looks real nice, I
like the little changes you made. Do you think the sharp trailing edges
lighten the control forces from the standard round tube trailing edges we have
?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263604#263604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
At 08:19 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>Possums,
>
>What is the " Geographic " on the tail boom ? The new plane looks
>real nice, I like the little changes you made. Do you think the
>sharp trailing edges lighten the control forces from the standard
>round tube trailing edges we have ?
>
>Mike
As far a the sharp trailing edges, they are standard GA stuff from
AircraftSpruce.
I just think they look cleaner than "Homer's" bumps. (Not there's anything
wrong with the bumps) I don't think the edges do anything to the
control forces,
just "cosmetic" like I said before "so I could fit in with the crowd".
As you probably know, you can put "Graphics" on the boom
tube fairly cheap.This sounds stupid at first, but I used to
have "National Geographic" - in big black letters - on my old Firestar's boom
tube - just to keep the shrimp boats and others from calling the FAA every
time we landed on a sand bar or other questionable LZs. Read that
"Just to keep me out of trouble" and it's probably illegal, immoral or
"somebody's having too much fun - so I should call the cops".
But you would be surprised how little things like that make people go from
being upset that your having so much fun - to being really interested in what
you are doing."Just stand right here next to the plane and we'll see if we
can get you in our next installment." I always got cameras strapped to my
head and in the plane anyway.I don't try to pretend to be Adriel Heisey
or anybody like that and I'm pretty sure that National Geographic is
mostly "Free Lance" anyway.In fact I've got a series of shots of the
Fla. State Patrol "posing" sitting in my plane after I had run out of
gas on the
way back from Fla. and had to land somewhere I shouldn't have. I'm sure
they were just hoping that their Mom's would see them in paper/mag next
month - if it got published (it didn't - but??).Heck who knows... I
have been in the
paper and TV a few times - but not the times I would have wanted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Mike
I'm not familiar with the MKIII tests, but I did look at the link that you posted.
Do I understand that the test wing had a constant airfoil out to a flat tip,
and later a new tip was added, extending the wingspan? And, was there an original
bowed, flat bottomed wing tip that also extended the wingspan, and was
tested, but gave higher stall than the shorter flat tip? I would have expected
the results that Jack mentioned, being lower stall with more wing span. The additional
"flat" bottom area on the original design is not actually a "no lift"
waste. It is an airfoil, although not a great one for sure, and would likely
generate a lot of drag to accompany the lift that it generates. Also, dosen't
the new wing have a different airfoil?
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:43:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
>
> That flat three feet outboard may not generate lift, but it does show benefit
in that it pushes the tip vortex outward, increases wing aspect ratio which reduces
induced drag.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester,
Jack,
The wingtip vortex may be outward of the airfoil on the current design wing, but
it still flows around the tip, and hits the top of the wing. If you remember
John H Test flights of the factory MK III Xtra, its stall numbers were much lower
with pure wing out to the end of the aileron even though it had no tip at
all. The same span new Kolb wing without any span wasted on the useless flat
wingtips has more lift than the old Kolb wing, and LESS induced drag. The wing
with the current flat wingtips actually INCREASE induced drag because of all
the area wasted where there is no airfoil, the opposite of what you claim.
The tests have been done and the results are in... The new wing design on the factory
Kolb MK III Xtra stalls at a significantly lower airspeed with no wingtip
at all, The old design wing that we all have now has less lift due to wasting
several feet of its span, and has higher induced drag.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=41264
Kolb changed the design for a reason, its been tested, and proven. Some can theorize
and talk about how great the current wingtip is all they want, its not going
to change the facts.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have
!!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263606#263606
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar vs Ultrastar |
>>>
>>>
>>>Possums did a mod to the ailerons on his Firestar, T
>
>
>I thought they changed the ailerons to the shorter ones on the
>Firestar anyway?
Lots of things!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
>
>Jack,
>
>The wingtip vortex may be outward of the airfoil on the current design
wing, but it still flows around the tip, and hits the top of the wing. If
you remember John H Test flights of the factory MK III Xtra, its stall
numbers were much lower with pure wing out to the end of the aileron even
though it had no tip at all. The same span new Kolb wing without any span
wasted on the useless flat wingtips has more lift than the old Kolb wing,
and LESS induced drag. The wing with the current flat wingtips actually
INCREASE induced drag because of all the area wasted where there is no
airfoil, the opposite of what you claim.
>
Mike,
Just for the record, every wing has a tip. With a wing being of constant
profile, it has a flat, non rounded tip. I agree that a constant profile
wing with a flat tip will generate more lift than the same length wing with
Homer's tip design. But the non rounded tip will suffer from flow
separation drag. Adding droop tips corrects this tendency and further
enhances aspect ratio and reduces induced drag. Rounding the tip will get
rid of the separation drag.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
>From JetPilot:
"...when I put the Hornier style wingtips on the MK III Xtra..."
Is that the comparative form of Horny, or did you mean Hoerner?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263660#263660
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum
tubeing for most of my fuel line
and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make
the conection at the
very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly
condition insp. I changed
to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol
resistant. Next time I am thinking
about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a
good idea.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
Brownsville , Tex
On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
> At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:
>> Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in
>> the yard. I don't think it was affected by it, but you never
>> know. I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned
>> that it would collapse under suction. I still wonder if it's the
>> alcohol. If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the
>> same to neoprene.
>
> I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is
> harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer. You still
> need to replace it every couple of years. I think it's the sunlight
> (UV) that does most of the damage.
>
> The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing",
> is a vinyl product. Tygothane is something different, a
> polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.
>
> There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away,
> they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.
>
> I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see
> what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.
>
> -Dana
> --
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
Frank,
I believe aluminum will withstand vibration better than copper. And for the
same size is lighter.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
>
>when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum
>tubeing for most of my fuel line
>and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make
>the conection at the
>very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly
>condition insp. I changed
>to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol
>resistant. Next time I am thinking
>about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a
>good idea.
>Frank Goodnight
>Firestar 2
>Brownsville , Tex
>On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grandrapids EIS or others. |
| From: | "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com> |
For those of you with the grandrapids eis for rotax 2 cycles,
what options do you have?
can the two aux. inputs be used for fuel level?
anyone using the fuel flow option, altimeter?
I have two 45 litre aluminum tanks that only have a clear fuel line to read the
level. They are behind the passenger seat and very hard to see. I would like
to put a skysport fuel sending unit in each one but before I buy a fuel guage
as well I would like to know if the eis can read fuel level. I know alot of people
like the standard needle guages but I find them hard to read (accurately).
I've decided to replace them with an eis (not sure what one yet). I find that
with the guages that I have, I am guessing as to what it is reading because
the needle travel is so smalll.I would much prefer a digital number especially
for the more critical readings.
Anyone else with a different eis such as a stratomaster please don't hesitate to
comment on your unit.
Thanks,
Tony
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263699#263699
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
The Tygon tubing product intended for fuel lines is Tygon F4040A. It is yellow
and traslucent but so are some other Tygon tubing types. The F4040A has been tested
satisfactorily for use with E-10 auto fuel according to the factory tech
rep I spoke to about it.
It is very flexible and resistant to cracking down to -35F but on the hot end
it is not good above about 160F or so. It should handle suction for Kolbs from
tank to fuel engine mounted fuel pump but NOT for pulse lines on 2-strokes. I've
installed in on two airplanes with no apparent problems under the conditions
I mentioned.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263700#263700
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
Call Grand Rapids Tech. and they will tell you exactly what you need.
They sell the Prince capacitive fuel level sender, which I highly
recommend. Yes, ties into Aux. Will also do altitude.
Best customer service>
In a message dated 9/18/2009 12:14:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com writes:
For those of you with the grandrapids eis for rotax 2 cycles,
what options do you have?
can the two aux. inputs be used for fuel level?
anyone using the fuel flow option, altimeter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
He is correct, and the Prince fuel sender is a good one, but there is
only one aux wire on the two stroke EIS that will work as a fuel sender.
I used two senders with my two stroke EIS by getting a double pole,
double throw switch and wired the switch so that one direction read the
front tank and the other direction read the back tank. I also had the
tanks isolated and selected between them with a selector fuel valve, so
that when you changed tanks you also changed the switch. It has worked
quite well for me for more than 6 years.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: HShack(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grandrapids EIS or others.
Call Grand Rapids Tech. and they will tell you exactly what you need.
They sell the Prince capacitive fuel level sender, which I highly
recommend. Yes, ties into Aux. Will also do altitude.
Best customer service>
In a message dated 9/18/2009 12:14:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com writes:
For those of you with the grandrapids eis for rotax 2 cycles,
what options do you have?
can the two aux. inputs be used for fuel level?
anyone using the fuel flow option, altimeter?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/18/09 07:49:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
| From: | "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com> |
That's exactly what I want to do... thanks for the info. What length does the sender
come in and can it be cut down (I need about 22")... or is it a resistor
swing type?
[quote="lcottrell"]He is correct, and the Prince fuel sender is a good one, but
there is only one aux wire on the two stroke EIS that will work as a fuel sender.
I used two senders with my two stroke EIS by getting a double pole, double
throw switch and wired the switch so that one direction read the front tank
and the other direction read the back tank. I also had the tanks isolated
and selected between them with a selector fuel valve, so that when you changed
tanks you also changed the switch. It has worked quite well for me for more
than 6 years.
Larry C
> ---
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263774#263774
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
Your best bet is to call Grand Rapids, you will talk to Sandy who is so
knowledgeable that several guys have proposed to her over the phone,
including me. :-) She can fix you up with what ever you need. There are
several sizes of senders, I used the 12 inch one with my stock tanks.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: albertakolbmk3
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Grandrapids EIS or others.
That's exactly what I want to do... thanks for the info. What length
does the sender come in and can it be cut down (I need about 22")... or
is it a resistor swing type?
[quote="lcottrell"]He is correct, and the Prince fuel sender is a
good one, but there is only one aux wire on the two stroke EIS that
will work as a fuel sender. I used two senders with my two stroke EIS
by getting a double pole, double throw switch and wired the switch so
that one direction read the front tank and the other direction read the
back tank. I also had the tanks isolated and selected between them with
a selector fuel valve, so that when you changed tanks you also changed
the switch. It has worked quite well for me for more than 6 years.
Larry C
> ---
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263774#263774
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/18/09 07:49:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3 blade vs 2 blade |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Apparently my nervousness at testing the new prop led me to not notice just
how much more vibration was being generated. I put the three blade back
together yesterday and flew it this morning. Smoother. No measure of how
much, just a seat of the pants measurement.Almost all the tach problems went
away. There is still some oscillation of the needle at certain RPM's but
nothing like before.
I think the 7 hour old plugs are fouling a bit as the idle is getting
rougher. I'll put in new plugs and drop the needles one groove and see how
the next set of plugs does and if all tach problems go away.
On the flight testing program I validated what others have said here, that
the Mk III will not do a departure stall. At least I couldn't get it to do
one. I had the nose up so high it would have made the space shuttle proud.
All I could get was a vibration caused, I assume, by the flow separation at
the wing root that came and went as the flow separated and reattached at 37
mph IAS. Another data point to put in the log book.
Okay, out to change plugs and go up again before the storms arrive.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
[Crying or Very sad]
I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same symptom...advance
the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm. This is the same symptom
she had before I took her apart. I took my carbs off and I thought the deteriorated
choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too rich so I replaced
it (and the other one at the same time even though it wasn't bad).
She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.
I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not running
and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at full throttle.
A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with these jets
for over a year and a half now, through all seasons. I don't understand why
I would suddenly need to change the jets? While I had the carbs off I could
see the jets were not clogged.
I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I couldn't
even idle or taxi.
I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up at
all. I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do that either.
What else?? What am I missing here? I wanna fly!
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
This morning I was going to install VGs under the HS to see if I could get more
nose up pitch to enable an actual stall. As you may recall, with the VGs installed
I was able to get down to 42 mph IAS (no flaps) but ran out of elevator
and the SS wing was not stalled, just mushing with good roll control.
However, before doing this I decided to test the stall speed with 1/2 flaperons,
which is as deep as I ever lower them since the SS sinks at 900 fpm at idle
power and approach speed of 65 mph and no flaps. Before the VGs stall with 1/2
flaps was 42-43 mph IAS. I was astonished to learn today that with 1/2 flaps
and VGs, I had enough elevator to get an actual stall break at.... 34-35 mph IAS.
Since I can get a stall break at such a low speed with 1/2 flaps (my normal
landing and take-off configuration) I decided I didn't need to have a stall
break without flaps. Therefore, I'm not adding the HS VGs.
I am one very happy VG Kolber!
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263837#263837
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sat morn fly-out |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Hi List,
? One of those picture perfect Kolb flying days.Geauga County ( former home field
of CGS Hawk) airport days fly-in drive- in buggy-in breakfast. Lots of Amish
present with a ton of questions about?
the MK-3.Should have taken some pictures of all the kids sitting in it,but took
a few on the way up.
?Here are a couple of the guys flying in with us,and for a few of the younger crowd,a
picture of the infamous, Kent State University and their Dix Stadium sports
complex.
? Food was mediocer but still a great day.
??? G.Aman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 blade vs 2 blade |
Rick G/Gang:
Most every Kolb I have flown will climb with the stick full back to the
stop, if it has any guts at all. Most of the time it will do it with
two aboard with a mkIII.
A good exercise to stay ahead of the airplane would be full power climbs
with the stick full back (at a safe altitude, of course), then chop the
throttle (to simulate engine failure), and see how long it takes to get
the nose down or recover from the stall, if that should happen.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
On the flight testing program I validated what others have said here,
that the Mk III will not do a departure stall.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please- can't take off |
- Cristal- Just for form's sake, check to see if your fuel line is collap
sed.- Mine was sucked flat from a deteriorated hose.-
-
-------------------------
--------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
--------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
--------------- FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Cristal,
?When you reassembled the round slide,was the needle with the clip and o-ring the
first thing you put in the slide?
?G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 1:59 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Help please - can't take off
[Crying or Very sad]
I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same
symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm. This is the
same symptom she had before I took her apart. I took my carbs off and I thought
the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too rich so I
replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though it wasn't bad).
She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.
I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not running
and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at full
throttle.
A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with these
jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons. I don't understand
why I would suddenly need to change the jets? While I had the carbs off I could
see the jets were not clogged.
I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I couldn't
even idle or taxi.
I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up at
all. I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do that
either.
What else?? What am I missing here? I wanna fly!
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Check tank venting. If you have an electric start pull the fuel line and
make sure your fuel pump is actually putting out a good stream of fuel. Is
your pulse line soft? Poor pulse will make your fuel pressure soft too. Have
you pulled the tank tap(s) to make sure you haven't pulled a piece of junk
into the fuel line from the tank end?
If you have room to pull off the runway after an aborted take off, let the
engine get to stumble rpm, shut it off and drop the float bowl(s) to see if
it's full of fuel or empty.
DO NOT start messing around changing jets. If you know for sure they're
clear that's all they can be, clogged or clear.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 12:59 PM, cristalclear13 <
cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
>
> [Crying or Very sad]
> I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same
> symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm. This is
> the same symptom she had before I took her apart. I took my carbs off and I
> thought the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too
> rich so I replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though it
> wasn't bad).
> She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.
>
> I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not
> running and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at
> full throttle.
>
> A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with
> these jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons. I don't
> understand why I would suddenly need to change the jets? While I had the
> carbs off I could see the jets were not clogged.
>
> I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I
> couldn't even idle or taxi.
>
> I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up
> at all. I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do
> that either.
>
> What else?? What am I missing here? I wanna fly!
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
> Cristal- Just for form's sake, check to see if your fuel line is collapsed.
Mine was sucked flat from a deteriorated hose.
> Bill Sullivan
>
Thanks for the reply Bill. My fuel line is in good shape.
A good friend wrote:
> What happens after you get the maximum power of 35 to 4000 rpm? Does the engine
run rough after you continue to increase throttle? or does the engine max out
smoothly at that power?
> I know you said throttle cable operation is fine, when its not running & you
are looking in carbs, but is it possible the Throttle cable end, (Either end,
in the plane or at splitter) slips, while the engine is running (Vibrating)?
>
When max power is reached it runs "sluggish". I don't know how else to describe
it. Maybe I can get a video with sound of it.
I don't know how I'd check to see if the throttle cable is slipping while it's
running. Could I tie it down and run it up with the air filters off and watch
it from the side (carefully away from the prop) while the throttle is advanced?
(Or would that make a mess or not run at all?)
What about the fan belt? This website:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax503/fanbeltadjustment.htm
says that a loose fan belt could cause loss of horsepower.
I've never been real good/accurate at checking the "proper 1/4 in deflection at
5 lbs pressure". They say to check it with your finger but how do I know when
I'm pushing at 5lbs of pressure? When I push it it seems to deflect at least
half an inch.
If that were the problem wouldn't it not run well at lower power settings too?
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263860#263860
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
Sluggish means it`s probably not the cables, probably one carb, or a fuel
supply problem.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help please - can't take off
>
>
>
> williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
>> Cristal- Just for form's sake, check to see if your fuel line is
>> collapsed. Mine was sucked flat from a deteriorated hose.
>> Bill Sullivan
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply Bill. My fuel line is in good shape.
>
>
> A good friend wrote:
>> What happens after you get the maximum power of 35 to 4000 rpm? Does the
>> engine run rough after you continue to increase throttle? or does the
>> engine max out smoothly at that power?
>> I know you said throttle cable operation is fine, when its not running &
>> you are looking in carbs, but is it possible the Throttle cable end,
>> (Either end, in the plane or at splitter) slips, while the engine is
>> running (Vibrating)?
>>
>
>
> When max power is reached it runs "sluggish". I don't know how else to
> describe it. Maybe I can get a video with sound of it.
>
> I don't know how I'd check to see if the throttle cable is slipping while
> it's running. Could I tie it down and run it up with the air filters off
> and watch it from the side (carefully away from the prop) while the
> throttle is advanced? (Or would that make a mess or not run at all?)
>
> What about the fan belt? This website:
> http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax503/fanbeltadjustment.htm
> says that a loose fan belt could cause loss of horsepower.
> I've never been real good/accurate at checking the "proper 1/4 in
> deflection at 5 lbs pressure". They say to check it with your finger but
> how do I know when I'm pushing at 5lbs of pressure? When I push it it
> seems to deflect at least half an inch.
> If that were the problem wouldn't it not run well at lower power settings
> too?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263860#263860
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carlos" <grageda(at)innw.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
Hi Cristal,
Sorry to hear about your "Tales of Woe" For what ever it's worth I'd would
check the engine compression to see if the engine is in good mechanical
conditon. Your compression should be around 160psi or so. It should also be
close to the same pressure for both cylinders.
What color are the spark plugs? If they are dark and or covered with soot
than you are getting too much fuel thru the engine. If the plugs are pale
tan to white then the engine is running too lean.
It could also be that one of the ignition coils is breaking down under load
or perhaps the spark is not reaching the plug. You might check for loose or
chafed ignition wires. A wet looking spark plug would indicate a lack of
ignition.
Hope this helps.
Carlos G
AKA
BaronVonEvil
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:15 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help please - can't take off
>
>
>
> williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
>> Cristal- Just for form's sake, check to see if your fuel line is
>> collapsed. Mine was sucked flat from a deteriorated hose.
>> Bill Sullivan
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply Bill. My fuel line is in good shape.
>
>
> A good friend wrote:
>> What happens after you get the maximum power of 35 to 4000 rpm? Does the
>> engine run rough after you continue to increase throttle? or does the
>> engine max out smoothly at that power?
>> I know you said throttle cable operation is fine, when its not running &
>> you are looking in carbs, but is it possible the Throttle cable end,
>> (Either end, in the plane or at splitter) slips, while the engine is
>> running (Vibrating)?
>>
>
>
> When max power is reached it runs "sluggish". I don't know how else to
> describe it. Maybe I can get a video with sound of it.
>
> I don't know how I'd check to see if the throttle cable is slipping while
> it's running. Could I tie it down and run it up with the air filters off
> and watch it from the side (carefully away from the prop) while the
> throttle is advanced? (Or would that make a mess or not run at all?)
>
> What about the fan belt? This website:
> http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax503/fanbeltadjustment.htm
> says that a loose fan belt could cause loss of horsepower.
> I've never been real good/accurate at checking the "proper 1/4 in
> deflection at 5 lbs pressure". They say to check it with your finger but
> how do I know when I'm pushing at 5lbs of pressure? When I push it it
> seems to deflect at least half an inch.
> If that were the problem wouldn't it not run well at lower power settings
> too?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263860#263860
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
I pulled out the Rotax repair manual and in the troubleshooting section it has
three conditions under the "no" answer for "Is the engine running well at high
speed?"
1. Engine "four-stroking"
2. Backfiring through carb
3. Prevailing pinking of engine
and it lists lots of possible faults under each one of those.
However...I don't know which section applies to my engine, except I don't hear
any backfiring.
This is something that started at the beginning of summer (June when I flew my
dad to Douglas and some thought it was carb ice upon landing), but it just happened
once or twice since then and things would go back to normal after pulling
the throttle back to idle and then advancing it again. But it has just recently
gotten so bad it doesn't clear up on its own.
That choke seal was probably bad since I had it because that spark plug would always
come out black and wet. Maybe something is messed up from running too rich
for so long. The repair manual mentions exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked
by deposits. (That is the exhaust that has been leaking, but it didn't look
blocked when I had it off a month or two ago.) It also mentions heavy carbon
deposits in combustion chamber causing pre-ignition. (When I look in through
the spark plug hole the middle of the top of the piston head looks clean but
the sides of the top of the piston head look black from what I could see.)
Anyone know what "four-stroking" vs "pinking" is?
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263873#263873
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Cristal, Two stroke engines fire the plug each time the piston comes to the
top of its stroke. When it is four stroking it is missing. It usually
happens when the mixture is so rich that the plug can't spark. Pinking is
the same as pinging, ie cylinder has a hot spot that is causing combustion
to begin before the plug fires. Usually caused by a lean mixture while
loading the engine excessively.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM, cristalclear13 <
cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
>
> I pulled out the Rotax repair manual and in the troubleshooting section it
> has three conditions under the "no" answer for "Is the engine running well
> at high speed?"
> 1. Engine "four-stroking"
> 2. Backfiring through carb
> 3. Prevailing pinking of engine
>
> and it lists lots of possible faults under each one of those.
> However...I don't know which section applies to my engine, except I don't
> hear any backfiring.
>
> This is something that started at the beginning of summer (June when I flew
> my dad to Douglas and some thought it was carb ice upon landing), but it
> just happened once or twice since then and things would go back to normal
> after pulling the throttle back to idle and then advancing it again. But it
> has just recently gotten so bad it doesn't clear up on its own.
>
> That choke seal was probably bad since I had it because that spark plug
> would always come out black and wet. Maybe something is messed up from
> running too rich for so long. The repair manual mentions exhaust port or
> exhaust pipe blocked by deposits. (That is the exhaust that has been
> leaking, but it didn't look blocked when I had it off a month or two ago.)
> It also mentions heavy carbon deposits in combustion chamber causing
> pre-ignition. (When I look in through the spark plug hole the middle of the
> top of the piston head looks clean but the sides of the top of the piston
> head look black from what I could see.)
>
> Anyone know what "four-stroking" vs "pinking" is?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263873#263873
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
Back in My old R/C flying days, we called 4 stroking an excessively rich
mixture. One thing I recall reading in the Mike Stratman columns was that if
you experienced a rough running engine, pulling the choke lever during this
time could help in determining the problem, in that if it got worse, it was
already recieving to much fuel before the enricher ciciut was open, & if it
ran better, it was starving for fuel. This might help in the diagnosis, but
wouldn`t solve it of course. I don`t remember if you said if you talked to
Ronnie yet, But That seems to be what`s next.
??
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 5:37 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Help please - can't take off
>
>
> I pulled out the Rotax repair manual and in the troubleshooting section it
> has three conditions under the "no" answer for "Is the engine running well
> at high speed?"
> 1. Engine "four-stroking"
> 2. Backfiring through carb
> 3. Prevailing pinking of engine
>
> and it lists lots of possible faults under each one of those.
> However...I don't know which section applies to my engine, except I don't
> hear any backfiring.
>
> This is something that started at the beginning of summer (June when I
> flew my dad to Douglas and some thought it was carb ice upon landing), but
> it just happened once or twice since then and things would go back to
> normal after pulling the throttle back to idle and then advancing it
> again. But it has just recently gotten so bad it doesn't clear up on its
> own.
>
> That choke seal was probably bad since I had it because that spark plug
> would always come out black and wet. Maybe something is messed up from
> running too rich for so long. The repair manual mentions exhaust port or
> exhaust pipe blocked by deposits. (That is the exhaust that has been
> leaking, but it didn't look blocked when I had it off a month or two ago.)
> It also mentions heavy carbon deposits in combustion chamber causing
> pre-ignition. (When I look in through the spark plug hole the middle of
> the top of the piston head looks clean but the sides of the top of the
> piston head look black from what I could see.)
>
> Anyone know what "four-stroking" vs "pinking" is?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263873#263873
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Cristal,
?Make certain that the gaskets on the intake and on the exhaust are properly in
place.Check to see if one of the spark plugs is wetter,darker than the other.?
You have points ignition I believe,so you may have to check there also .
?G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 1:59 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Help please - can't take off
[Crying or Very sad]
I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same
symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm. This is the
same symptom she had before I took her apart. I took my carbs off and I thought
the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too rich so I
replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though it wasn't bad).
She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.
I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not running
and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at full
throttle.
A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with these
jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons. I don't understand
why I would suddenly need to change the jets? While I had the carbs off I could
see the jets were not clogged.
I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I couldn't
even idle or taxi.
I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up at
all. I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do that
either.
What else?? What am I missing here? I wanna fly!
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
>
Cristal,
Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under
the rings. When was the last time the engine was
decarbed?
You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running
rich. What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring. This
prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot. As the engine runs at
higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up. The aluminum
piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder. With the carbon under
the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is
forced out against the cylinder. If the carbon is severe enough this force
will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running
faster.
It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon
under the rings. If you do not find any all well and good. If you do you
may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.
FWIW
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Cristal, Two stroke engines fire the plug each time the piston comes to the top
of its stroke. When it is four stroking it is missing. It usually happens when
the mixture is so rich that the plug can't spark. Pinking is the same as pinging,
ie cylinder has a hot spot that is causing combustion to begin before
the plug fires. Usually caused by a lean mixture while loading the engine excessively.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
Ok, I'm not pinging and not backfiring so looking at the possible faults for "four-stroking":
a.) Clogged airfilter element (I don't know how much you can tell by looking, but
it doesn't look clogged. Maybe I'll go ahead and clean it.)
b.) Worn needle jet (I can take it apart and see how that looks)
c.) Carb jets too large (I have the standard sizes, but Ronnie did suggest dropping
from 158 to 155 and 45 to 40 back when I first called him. I didn't call
him today because I heard he was on vacation. I only have Saturdays to work
on my plane, makes it hard to find help.)
d.) Mixture too rich (I thought fixing the choke seal would fix this.)
e.) Wrong ignition timing (I'd have to take it somewhere to check this, but I could
look at the wiring as Carlos suggested)
f.) Exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits (I could take the muffler
off. I've been meaning to put on the muffler I got from Jimmy anyways.)
g.) Needle position too high (The o-ring is on the top slot of the needle and the
clip is in the second slot.)
h.) Choke activated (It is not activated. When I activate it it runs rough.)
i.) Float stuck or faulty (I will have to investigate this further.)
Thanks for your tips and suggestions. Now I just need some cooler weather to work
in the hanger comfortably and some extra Saturdays in the week. :)
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263896#263896
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
> Cristal,
>
> Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under
> the rings. When was the last time the engine was
> decarbed?
>
> You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running
> rich. What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring. This
> prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot. As the engine runs at
> higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up. The aluminum
> piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder. With the carbon under
> the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is
> forced out against the cylinder. If the carbon is severe enough this force
> will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running
> faster.
>
> It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon
> under the rings. If you do not find any all well and good. If you do you
> may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.
>
> FWIW
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
That makes sense Jack. I don't have the tools to do this so I may just take her
down to Gerry at Green Sky. He is closer to me than Ronnie. I trust them both.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263898#263898
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com> |
Cristal, make sure the jet needle and clip are under the white cup in the carb
slide. It's easy to get it on top which would make it run very rich and give you
the problem that you are seeing.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
970 hours
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263902#263902
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: boom tube bolt question? |
| From: | "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com> |
I removed the main fuse tube bolt after 19 years of flying and found absolutely
no wear.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
970 hours
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263903#263903
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
[/quote]
Ok, I'm not pinging and not backfiring so looking at the possible faults for "four-stroking":
a.) Clogged airfilter element (I don't know how much you can tell by looking, but
it doesn't look clogged. Maybe I'll go ahead and clean it.)
b.) Worn needle jet (I can take it apart and see how that looks)
c.) Carb jets too large (I have the standard sizes, but Ronnie did suggest dropping
from 158 to 155 and 45 to 40 back when I first called him. I didn't call
him today because I heard he was on vacation. I only have Saturdays to work
on my plane, makes it hard to find help.)
d.) Mixture too rich (I thought fixing the choke seal would fix this.)
e.) Wrong ignition timing (I'd have to take it somewhere to check this, but I could
look at the wiring as Carlos suggested)
f.) Exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits (I could take the muffler
off. I've been meaning to put on the muffler I got from Jimmy anyways.)
g.) Needle position too high (The o-ring is on the top slot of the needle and the
clip is in the second slot.)
h.) Choke activated (It is not activated. When I activate it it runs rough.)
i.) Float stuck or faulty (I will have to investigate this further.)
Thanks for your tips and suggestions. Now I just need some cooler weather to work
in the hanger comfortably and some extra Saturdays in the week. :)[/quote]
Cristal, one of the guys mentioned that you have points - Ka-Ching! Check your
points, as they wear down, the timing retards, the engine runs smooth, but won't
rev up. The problems you describe are exactly what happened to me a number
of years ago when I still had my 532 on the MKIII. I bought a set of points from
a company that (hopefully) is no longer in business, Airstar Discount Sales.
Installed the points the week before leaving for Oshkosh, flew for several hours,
and checked them. OK. By the time we got to Illinois, the engine was running
exactly like yours. It never occurred to me that the points could have been
wearing down that fast, so I repitched the prop to allow the engine to rev
up and we kept going.
Spent most of my time at Oshkosh fooling around with the engine, but didn't check
the points. (duh) By the time we got back to Illinois heading south, I was
really getting tired of repitching the prop, and the two Maxair Drifters were
no longer the slowest airplanes of our threesome...
Finally one of the other guys suggested that I check the points, and they had worn
excessively and quickly. Reset them and added a hair because I knew they would
keep wearing, repitched the prop again, (sigh) back to normal and continued
home without incident.
Perhaps it is as simple as that. Good luck.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263916#263916
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
Have you tried running it with the airfilter off. If the airfilter gets
gloged with oil it will limit RPM. have had this happen a few times.
Regards
Tony
Downunder
MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:59 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Help please - can't take off
>
>
> [Crying or Very sad]
> I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same
> symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm. This is
> the same symptom she had before I took her apart. I took my carbs off and
> I thought the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run
> too rich so I replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though
> it wasn't bad).
> She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.
>
> I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not
> running and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way
> at full throttle.
>
> A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with
> these jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons. I don't
> understand why I would suddenly need to change the jets? While I had the
> carbs off I could see the jets were not clogged.
>
> I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I
> couldn't even idle or taxi.
>
> I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged
> up at all. I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to
> do that either.
>
> What else?? What am I missing here? I wanna fly!
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
| From: | "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com> |
Anyone out there with a stratomaster? The grandrapids eis seems to be very popular.
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263950#263950
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) |
For folks needing a cheap GPS the Magellan 315 replaced by the 320 is
a great little unit if you don't mind entering in way points, as it
does not have a aviation data base. I sat down with mine one evening
and entered way point info for the airports in our area using data
off AirNav http://www.airnav.com/airports/ and
AeroPlanner.com http://www.aeroplanner.com/ . I paid about $100
for mine new several years ago but you can pick them up cheap on
eBay. There were folks selling them new in the box. They have a
very nice display, with several different screens, one with very
large text (nice), plus they lock on quick and work great. Wish I
could say that about my $800+ piece of junk Garmin 90.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
I've used the Tygon tubing in the past, it took a little longer than
the plain blue (non-Bing product) but it hardened over time also. I
have totally gone over to the blue Bing tuning for my fuel and primer
lines and am very pleased with it. The Bing is sold by Aircraft Spruce.
jerb
At 03:24 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:
>> Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting
>> in the yard. I don't think it was affected by it, but you never
>> know. I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was
>> concerned that it would collapse under suction. I still wonder if
>> it's the alcohol. If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it
>> does the same to neoprene.
>
>I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is
>harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer. You still
>need to replace it every couple of years. I think it's the sunlight
>(UV) that does most of the damage.
>
>The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing",
>is a vinyl product. Tygothane is something different, a
>polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.
>
>There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away,
>they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.
>
>I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see
>what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.
>
>-Dana
>--
> The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
You know replacing the flex tubing with aluminum tubing for most of
the run might not be a bad idea. When Kolb shipped my kit they sent
the wrong wall thickness tube, They said it would cost more to return
it than it was worth so told me to keep it and reshipped the correct
material. That tubing might work just fine. Got to think about this
and look things over.
jerb
At 06:35 AM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>when I built my firestar I used a pice of the leftover aluminum
>tubeing for most of my fuel line
>and only used a short piece of the plastic that kolb provided to make
>the conection at the
>very ends. I don"t know if that was a good idea or not. At my yearly
>condition insp. I changed
>to black fuel line for marine use it is supposed to be alcohol
>resistant. Next time I am thinking
>about going to copper air conditioning tube, I also don"t if that is a
>good idea.
>Frank Goodnight
>Firestar 2
>Brownsville , Tex
>On Sep 17, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
>>
>>At 06:09 PM 9/17/2009, william sullivan wrote:
>>> Henry- My black neoprene line was exposed to sun while sitting in
>>>the yard. I don't think it was affected by it, but you never
>>>know. I was going to use the yellow Tygothane, but I was concerned
>>>that it would collapse under suction. I still wonder if it's the
>>>alcohol. If alcohol makes me soft and mushy, maybe it does the
>>>same to neoprene.
>>
>>I have used the yellow Tygon on my PPG's, but the blue line is
>>harder, less susceptible to collapse, and lasts longer. You still
>>need to replace it every couple of years. I think it's the sunlight
>>(UV) that does most of the damage.
>>
>>The yellow Tygon, which they market as "fuel and lubricant tubing",
>>is a vinyl product. Tygothane is something different, a
>>polyurethane product, and according to Tygon is NOT suitable for fuel.
>>
>>There are other yellow "fuel" tubings out there... stay away,
>>they're cheaper than genuine Tygon and don't last nearly as long.
>>
>>I know others prefer the black neoprene but I still like to see
>>what's inside (or not inside) my fuel lines.
>>
>>-Dana
>>--
>>The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Before the VGs stall with 1/2 flaps was 42-43 mph IAS.>>
Hi Thom,
been to a battle of Britain airshow today. Spitfire, Hurricane, Lancaster
etc. Among the rest of the show was the Antonov Biplane. The biggest single
engined biplane in the world and it featured a very slow fly past.
The commentator read from the pilots handling notes which said. In case of
engine failure at night or in bad visib ility pull the stick right back and
keep the wings level. The speed will reduce to 20 mph and the plane will
descend in a level position at the speed of a personal parachute. Who needs
VG`s?
Incidentally another item was a glider airobatic show. The glider was tugged
up by a Pawnee, which is much used here for tugging but it did a straight
and level fly past while the glider did 10 rolls WHILE STILL ON TOW..
Incredible bit of flying.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
You could always ask for a wing seat>>
Hi Tony,
i can see myself flying down from 40,000 feet sitting on the main spar.
i remember a guy who landed about 3 miles from home during the war who
was the rear gunner in a Lanc which had been badly shot up and was
struggling to get back to base when the fuselage fell in half. The
gunner rode the rear turret down and got away with being fairly badly
banged up, but survived.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grandr Rapids EIS or others. |
Yes Sandy is great person to work with. The fuel probes are of the
capacitance type and come in different lengths. When you order them
your going to need to know the approx. length you will need. Note,
from their original length they may only be cut back to a minimum
length and retain the ability to adjust them within the minimum and
full calibration range. They work great. Before you error cut
mounting holes for them to big be aware that the inside tank mounting
ring is made where it can be passed thru a smaller hole than you
first think is required. Some string may be used to hold it in
position during the installation. They work great.
jerb
At 09:58 PM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>Your best bet is to call Grand Rapids, you will talk to Sandy who is
>so knowledgeable that several guys have proposed to her over the
>phone, including me. :-) She can fix you up with what ever you need.
>There are several sizes of senders, I used the 12 inch one with my stock tanks.
>Larry C
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>albertakolbmk3
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:29 PM
>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Grandrapids EIS or others.
>
><cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
>
>That's exactly what I want to do... thanks for the info. What length
>does the sender come in and can it be cut down (I need about 22")...
>or is it a resistor swing type?
>
>[quote="lcottrell"]He is correct, and the Prince fuel sender is a
>good one, but there is only one aux wire on the two stroke EIS that
>will work as a fuel sender. I used two senders with my two stroke
>EIS by getting a double pole, double throw switch and wired the
>switch so that one direction read the front tank and the other
>direction read the back tank. I also had the tanks isolated and
>selected between them with a selector fuel valve, so that when you
>changed tanks you also changed the switch. It has worked quite well
>for me for more than 6 years.
> Larry C
>
> > ---
>
>
>--------
>Kolb MKIII C
>Rotax 582
>C Gearbox 3.00:1
>WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
><http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263774#263774>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263774#263774
>
>
>http://www.matronicp; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>_p; generous
>bsp;
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
>----------
>- <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
>09/18/09 07:49:00
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grandrapids EIS or others. |
Tony
Here is web site info for the EIS unit - note there are 2 stroke and
4 stroke models as well as 2 and 4 cylinder models.
http://www.grtavionics.com/product.aspx?productno=2
http://www.grtavionics.com/product.aspx?productno=2&featureno=8
http://www.grtavionics.com/product.aspx?productno=2&featureno=26
According to their web site info for the EIS-2002 (2-stroke, 2
cylinder model) it has two user configurable aux inputs, I would take
it these both can be used for fuel level sensors. You need to ask if
they remain available if you elect to have the altimeter/vertical
speed option or fuel flow option. It can be ordered with those
options. I have the fuel flow option on mine, works great. I use it
to cross check fuel remaining and my fuel level.
Check their warranty policy - its says a lot - I have my second unit
and like the first (on another plane) it has been rock solid. I am a
very happy user of their product. My next plane will also have one
of their units..
Regards,
jerb
At 09:13 AM 9/18/2009, you wrote:
>
>For those of you with the grandrapids eis for rotax 2 cycles,
>
>what options do you have?
>can the two aux. inputs be used for fuel level?
>anyone using the fuel flow option, altimeter?
>
>I have two 45 litre aluminum tanks that only have a clear fuel line
>to read the level. They are behind the passenger seat and very hard
>to see. I would like to put a skysport fuel sending unit in each one
>but before I buy a fuel guage as well I would like to know if the
>eis can read fuel level. I know alot of people like the standard
>needle guages but I find them hard to read (accurately). I've
>decided to replace them with an eis (not sure what one yet). I find
>that with the guages that I have, I am guessing as to what it is
>reading because the needle travel is so smalll.I would much prefer a
>digital number especially for the more critical readings.
>
>Anyone else with a different eis such as a stratomaster please don't
>hesitate to comment on your unit.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tony
>
>--------
>Kolb MKIII C
>Rotax 582
>C Gearbox 3.00:1
>WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263699#263699
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
I could use the non-stalled full up elevator to get down slowly and
relatively safely, virtually blind.
In the slow controlled descent, say through an undercast, once you break out
you can resume flying normally. Can't do that with a BRS.
>
> Thom Riddle
Thom R/Gang:
That is a wonderful idea.
How do you intend to keep the wings level once you lose the horizon?
The decent rate in a mush in my mkIII is about 2,000 fpm. Not slow by any
means when the standard rate of climb and decent during instrument flight in
an Army rotary wing aircraft was 500 fpm, when I was still flying them.
I think I'll keep out of clouds and decend visually. I haven't been
instrument rated in over 33 years and my Kolb doesn't do well partial panel.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
When you took off the exhaust & intake manifolds did you by chance
peek at the rings - you can take a solid object like a wooden dowel
rod and push on the rings lightly (moderate pressure there guy) and
see if they compress into the groove slightly. If you can it shows
the rings groves are not to carboned up.
Hate to go here but the first thing you need to determine if your
running rich or lean - getting enough fuel or to much. Tie the tail
down, warm the engine up and then do a short full throttle run and
pull the plugs and observe if there wet or dry and color. If you
have a hand primer a second thing you can do while running is give it
a small shot of prime and note what the affect is - does it bog the
engine down indicating its rich or does the engine RPM pickup
indicating it lean. Run it a bit afterwards to clear the plugs.
What are your EGT temps (note cylinder temps too) when you run up the engine.
Do your an enricher (choke) on your carb(s), if so do you have a boot
over the cables where they enter the carb, if you don't use an
enricher, do you have a cap over the port that sticks up out of the carb?
Do you have a squeeze primer bulb in the supply line? The ball
sticks in them things some times causing a fuel starvation issue. If
you have one do you have a by-pass around it in case that happens.
How old is your fuel pump?
Are you running old gas? How old? Is it mixed right?
What are you using in the way of tubing for the pulse line going
between the engine pulse port and the fuel pump?
(Is it regular fuel line tubing or the heavy wall tubing - if your
using regular fuel line it can soften the pulse and weaken the flow
to the fuel pump.)
Does you fuel pump have an oil drain hole - what is the position of
the hole - is it on the lower side where it can drain? You can get a
little oil blown out of the pulse port - it can collect in the fuel
pump and can't drain if the pump is in the wrong position.
Did you make any changes that you can recall just before this problem
started - what had you worked on or made any changes to taken off or
adjusted the prop.
jerb
At 06:51 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:
>
>
> >
>
>Cristal,
>
>Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under
>the rings. When was the last time the engine was
>decarbed?
>
>You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running
>rich. What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring. This
>prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot. As the engine runs at
>higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up. The aluminum
>piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder. With the carbon under
>the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is
>forced out against the cylinder. If the carbon is severe enough this force
>will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running
>faster.
>
>It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon
>under the rings. If you do not find any all well and good. If you do you
>may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.
>
>FWIW
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
John H.
You are correct, of course. My Kolb doesn't have an artificial horizon either so
staying out of the clouds is always the better choice.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264090#264090
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
The decent rate in a mush in my mkIII is about 2,000 fpm.>>
Grief ! Thats about twice the climb out speed. Not an experiment I want to
try.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) |
Garmin has forced Magellan out of the market now; >>
Hi Russ,
i had a Magellan on my cat. Seemed to be OK but not easy to use. Manual
entry of lat and long No GPS was easy to use back then.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
use the non-stalled full up elevator to get down slowly and relatively
safely,>>
Hmm! I dont think I would like to try it.
The AN2 didn`t actually carry out the procedure. I assume that it wouldn`t
do the undercart much good, but you could probably walk away. which in that
position is the best you can hope for.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Took Zulu Delta out Saturday afternoon to see how she handles 90 degree
crosswinds. Wind was 8 to 15 (guessing based on report from airport 15 miles
away and wind sock activity) Found that it was better to carry a little
power, about 3000 rpm (750 at the prop), for rudder effectiveness. When I
pulled back to idle on a high approach and put her in a slip it took full
rudder deflection to keep her headed down the runway straight. Less rudder
seemed to be required when I carried a little power. Looking at the plane
afterward and trying to reason it out, I speculated that when the prop is at
idle and the stick is forward to slip nose low the rudder is blanked out
pretty well.Sound reasonable?
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
These are all great suggestions. I've made a big list of things to check. I'm
going to try to work the easiest ones first.
Since I haven't cleaned the air filters in 50 hrs and over a year and half I'll
start with that. I also noticed that the vent tube I purchased from the hardware
store down the street has gotten a little mushy on the bottom where the holes
are. I will order a new one from Aircraft Spruce along with the air filter
cleaner/oil kit.
I will keep you all informed of what I find. I plan to do one thing at a time
to narrow down what the issue really is.
If it isn't the air filter, I'll go to the next thing on my list. Sure wish I
had a few days off from work. It's getting dark so early now too. [Rolling Eyes]
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264144#264144
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I'm having a hard time visualizing the rudder on a pusher getting blanked out by
any sort of slip.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264151#264151
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
Turning final Sedona 3
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264176#264176
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02351_medium_188.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
Time to leave
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264177#264177
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02354_medium_152.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
I will order a new one from Aircraft Spruce along with the air filter
cleaner/oil kit.
>
> Cristal Waters
Cristal/Gang:
Local motorcycle shop will have K&N filter oil. Make sure you get it for
cotton and not foam filters.
As far as cleaning, I have used gasoline, a coffee can, and a little
agitation to clean K&N filters. Sling them around a little to get excess
gasoline out of them, then set them in the sun to air dry, and finally oil.
Some say gasoline will ruin the cotton filter element, I don't think so.
Two strokes keep them wet with gasoline and oil when they are running.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
At 12:13 PM 9/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>These are all great suggestions. I've made a big list of things to
>check. I'm going to try to work the easiest ones first.
>Since I haven't cleaned the air filters in 50 hrs and over a year
>and half I'll start with that. I also noticed that the vent tube I
>purchased from the hardware store down the street has gotten a
>little mushy on the bottom where the holes are.
If those holes get plugged up - the engine will act like you are talking about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Gang:
Is this one of our guys?
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III
EXTRA
Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Dana
Who was it in the Xtra?
Waiting to know,
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
Not in the database that I'm accumulating...
FAA registration is to:
PATRICK, DANIEL L
Street PO BOX 303
City NORTH STONINGTON State CONNECTICUT
County NEW LONDON Zip Code 06359-0303
Country UNITED STATES
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:12 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Gang:
>
> Is this one of our guys?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III EXTRA
> Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: 1
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net> |
Dan Patrick.
Newly built MK-3X Was not his first flight. Low time Light sport pilot.
I know no more details, but will try to find out.
Jim Kmet
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Crash
>
> Gang:
>
> Is this one of our guys?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III
> EXTRA
> Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk: 1
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
John,
>From the N number
PATRICK DANIEL L
Street PO BOX 303
City NORTH STONINGTON State CONNECTICUT
County NEW LONDON Zip Code 06359-0303
Country UNITED STATES
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
>
>Gang:
>
>Is this one of our guys?
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Rock House, Oregon
>
>
>IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III
>EXTRA
> Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
>LOCATION
> City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
>
>DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
>
>INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
>1
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank for FF |
Does anyone have info on sources for buying a fuel tank for a FireFly?
Mfrs, sales outlets, websites, etc. I'd appreciate anything you could
provide with various size and shape options.
Thanks,
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net> |
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=5d675b44-34d3-42f4-a655-443e0aa41494
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=5d675b44-34d3-42f4-a655-443e0aa41494
Dan was not a kolb-lister
Jim Kmet
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Crash
>
> Gang:
>
> Is this one of our guys?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III
> EXTRA
> Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk: 1
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank for FF |
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
Not sure this is what you want to hear. I just got one from Travis at Kolb for
my Firestar II. He has 5 or 6 gallon tanks. He says he has not had troubles with
the 5 gallon tank. I think that may mean they last better than the 6 gallon
tanks.
Price seemed pretty good to me
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264214#264214
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Neat pictures Dale, did you beat the storm out ???
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264230#264230
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank for FF |
At 04:21 PM 9/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone have info on sources for buying a fuel tank for a FireFly?
>Mfrs, sales outlets, websites, etc. I'd appreciate anything you
>could provide with various size and shape options.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave Kulp
>Bethlehem, PA
>FireFly 11DMK
>I got mine from a place in Florida called
>Rotational molding Inc.Phone 914-534-1766
>Don't know if they have a web site or not.
>Plastic powder is poured
>into a mold and then heated as it turns. Comes out in
>one solid piece.They make
>"Gray Water" storage tanks for RVs.
>You may like this site better http://www.ronco-plastics.net/marinetanks.html
>It seems to have more choices. I like to be able to design my own
>stuff and I can see thru it (about 1/8+ thick?)
>My plane is wider than Firefly - so you would have to measure the
>space you have and figure out how to get it in. The holes are
>drilled and the fittings have to
>be spun on at the factory with some kind of machine that melts them
>to the tank.
>They are made of the same plastic that the tanks are made of.
>If you tell them you are using it on anything that flys - they won't
>sell it to you.
>We have used these tanks for 12 years, mine for 10+ and no problems
>if the fittings are done right "raised" so you can also put a
>clamp on the outside of the fitting after your screw in the
>connections (no leaks).
Don't have any good pictures of the tank by itself.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank for FF |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
are you looking for the 5 gallon tank that you get with a kit????? ?I happen to
have a few of them kicking around
Ellery in Maine
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Sent: Mon, Sep 21, 2009 4:21 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel tank for FF
?
Does anyone have info on sources for buying a fuel tank for a FireFly? Mfrs, sales
outlets, websites, etc. I'd appreciate anything you could provide with various
size and shape options.?
?
Thanks,?
?
Dave Kulp?
Bethlehem, PA?
FireFly 11DMK?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
This is us watching a high speed pass and then holding short for takeoff.
We made it out fine just got bumped around a bit.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264246#264246
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02356_medium_136.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02357_medium_931.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
First Selectman Nicholas Mulane,>>
This from the crash report. What is a First Selectman please?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) |
Did the GPS help or hinder the cat with mousing?.
I just knew it!
You will be happy to know that the mousing around the new frapping on
the bitter end of the flying jib downhaul (Where the double bowline on a
bight is secured just behind the binnacle) has cured the problem.
Likewise the baggywrinkle.
Thank you for your interest
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Rick,
Lots of folks think that a prop driven by an engine at idle power produces more
drag than thrust but I don't believe that is the case in most airplanes. Following
is my rationale for that thinking.
For a propeller that has a fixed pitch in flight, there is an rpm for every true
airspeed that creates zero thrust and zero drag. In my airplane that I documented
most thoroughly, my typical approach speed was 65 mph IAS which during typical
ambient conditions equated to 61 mph TAS. For my engine and prop setup
the zero thrust rpm for that airspeed was 2288 rpm. Any rpm greater than this
zero thrust rpm at that airspeed would result in positive net thrust. IF at that
airspeed you could get the engine rpm below that engine speed, then the result
would be net drag from the prop. In my experience, the way most engine/props
are typically set up, it is difficult or even impossible to get the engine
rpm below the zero thrust speed at idle during normal glide approach. Your airplane
may not be this way but all of mine have exhibited this characteristic.
In the case of the airplane I'm referring to, my approach speed of 61 TAS and
idle power resulted in about 2700 rpm or thereabouts. This means that the prop
was producing a net positive thrust at idle power on approach. To confirm my
theory, I have done engine off approaches (prop stopped) at my normal approach
speed with the net result being a much steeper glide than with the engine at
idle speed, i.e., the descent rate at the same airspeed was much greater than
at idle power. Your airplane may be different but every one I've owned and tested
behaved this way.
If you know the pitch setting in inches for your prop, prop speed reduction ratio,
and the TAS of your idle power approach, you can calculate the zero thrust
rpm. If your engine is turning higher than this zero thrust speed under those
conditions, your prop is producing a net positive thrust. If it is turning less
than that zero thrust rpm, then your prop is producing a net drag force. The
further away from this zero thrust rpm your engine is turning, the greater the
magnitude of the net thrust or net drag.
If you need help calculating this for your airplane let me know and I'll be glad
to help you figure it out.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264288#264288
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Rick,
Perhaps but...
If the prop is turning at a rate that gives it a positive angle of attack with
the relative wind, a necessity by definition if more than the zero thrust speed,
then the prop is not being "pushed" by the prevailing wind, rather it is producing
thrust. The reason that the idle speed in glide is higher than the static
idle speed is that the angle of attack is much less when moving forward than
it is when stationary, but it is still a positive angle of attack if the rpm
is greater than the zero thrust rpm for a given airspeed.
That is my intuitive understanding of the situation. It could be wrong but I don't
understand how if it is.
Any aerodynamicists among us who would like to clear this up?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264299#264299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
Must have been a humongous rudder on that 150.
I am not 150 qualifed, but I bet the book says the max cross wind
component is about 15 mph at 90 degrees.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
Be comparison with the Mk III, I've landed a 150 in direct crosswinds
of 30 mph and still had rudder available to maintain heading on the
runway centerline. In 1/3 that wind (on average judging by the windsock)
the Mk III rudder was mostly against the stop if I cut to idle power.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
> Any aerodynamicists among us who would like to clear this up?
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I discovered the difference between engine idle power glide and dead stick
glide by experimenting.
Dead stick significantly increases glide in a Kolb. Don't know about other
airplanes because I never experiemented with them.
I have always felt folks needed to learn how to fly their Kolbs at idle
power, and also practice dead stick landings. The reason, the glide is so
much better dead stick, one could get into trouble selecting a forced
landing area and over flying it.
Can't prove it on paper, nor do I have any desire to, but the prop disc
becomes a large round disc when reduced to engine idle power. An example of
this is a helicopter in autorotation. If the main rotor blades did not slow
the aircraft down by increasing drag, it would fall out of the sky. A
gyrocopter is continuously autorotating because it is a big pin wheel.
Probably why it takes so much power to fly.
My own opinion. Worth what you paid for it.
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank for FFFuel tank for FF |
Actually, my FF has an enclosure built for a 10 gallon tank, but had a 5
gal. plus foam filler when I bought it. So... a few more 18 minute
units could be helpful from time to time. More helpful than matrimony,
Beauford. Although I miss the scent of a woman in my house, the scent
of my dog is pretty nice... and he waits so patiently in my pickup while
I'm flying around!!
Dave Kulp
FireFly 11DMK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net> |
Message to me from Dan Patrick about mishap:
Hi Jim I just got in from the field preping to get the plane out. Am fine
just a little back and neck stiff. Y ou know the old saying "low and slow"
on final 20o flaps rt.hand for flaps and stick to lt. hand, I went to
40obefore the tree line, ?little low, flaps to 20o switching hands I push
flap handle up and by accident other hand put slight forward pressure on the
stick. I added throttle and back on the stick. Landing gear caught branches
and went in. Poor judgement being that low. All is O K,will rebuild. Thanks
for the inquiry
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Crash
>
> Gang:
>
> Is this one of our guys?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 208NS Make/Model: EXP Description: KOLB MARK III
> EXTRA
> Date: 09/20/2009 Time: 1434
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: NORTH STONINGTON State: CT Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> AIRCRAFT CRASHED IN A WOODED AREA, NORTH STONINGTON, CT
>
> INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
> # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
> Unk: 1
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
In almost all airplanes, stopping the prop completely reduces drag and increases
glide. A windmilling prop is much worse than a stopped one if you are trying
to glide. As John H says, a helicopter would fall out of the air if this
were not true. A gyrocopter just has a big windmilling prop on the top of it,
no power to it at all, and if it were to ever stop in the air the gyrocopter
would fall like a rock.
John H,
Have you ever tried Dead stick gliding and landings in your MK III ??? My minimum
descent rate in my Kolb MK III Xtra is 500 FPM at 55 MPH and 1800 RPM - Minimum
Idle power for my Rotax 912-S. When I shut down the engine and stop the
prop completely, my descent rate increases to 900 Feet per minute, it is much
worse [Evil or Very Mad] This was the total opposite of what I was expecting,
but I have done this a number of times and this is just the way it is in
my Kolb. It does not make any sense and goes against theory, but I have tried
varying the airspeeds, and tested this quite a number of times with always
the same result, when I stop the prop instead of idle at 1800 RPM, my glide is
reduced by a huge amount.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264335#264335
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
For more on zero thrust rpm see the following:
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/aboutcafe_orderfromchaos.php
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264336#264336
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
My best guess for the situation above is that my Rotax 912-S must be producing
a significant amount of thrust even at 1800 RPM idle power... Rotax prohibits
idling this engine below 1800 RPM, so I don't have any figures below that RPM
where the prop probably goes from still producing some thrust to windmilling
and creating drag instead of thrust. Just a guess, that this is the only thing
that makes sense.
1800 RPM = Minimum Descent rate at 55 MPH 500 Feet Per Minute
Prop Stopped = Minimum Descent rate at 55 MPH 900 Feet Per Minute
The did this test many times and at different airspeeds, the test results don't
lie.. Something has to be causing it. Those thinking that they may have the
same glide with the engine stopped that they have at idle power should really
try this one day, they might be in for a big surprise, I sure was !!! PS,
start High up and make sure you have a HUGE runway, and aim for the middle, because
you might end up much shorter than you expect. Some Kolbs actually glide
better with the prop stopped, the reports are out there, which is why I suggest
trying it under very controlled conditions, because it is better to know
what to expect rather than be surprised if your engine ever does completely quit.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264338#264338
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
At 12:52 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>My best guess for the situation above is that my Rotax 912-S must be
>producing a significant amount of thrust even at 1800 RPM idle
>power... Rotax prohibits idling this engine below 1800 RPM, so I
>don't have any figures below that RPM where the prop probably goes
>from still producing some thrust to windmilling and creating drag
>instead of thrust. Just a guess, that this is the only thing that
>makes sense.
>
>1800 RPM = Minimum Descent rate at 55 MPH 500 Feet Per Minute
>Prop Stopped = Minimum Descent rate at 55 MPH 900 Feet Per Minute
Does the prop windmill on a 912 engine? It won't on a 503 with no clutch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Possums wrote:
>
> Does the prop windmill on a 912 engine? It won't on a 503 with no clutch.
No, the prop comes to a very abrupt and sudden stop when the engine is shut down
on a 912-S. I think even if I dived to over 100 MPH and the prop would still
not windmill.
I remember some engine off videos you posted a long time back Possums, did your
glide increase or decrease with the engine off ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264348#264348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Russ,
In your jubilation and glee when you thought you had found that I made a mistake,
you were in such a hurry to start a new thread and point out that I had made
an a mistake that you failed to read what I posted and understand it. I said
if the BIG windmilling prop on TOP of the gyrocopter ever stopped - Meaning
the ROTOR, the gyrocopter would fall like a rock, which is very true.
You sure are desperate to find something wrong with something I have posted, it
took you only a couple minutes for you to start a new thread on where you thought
I made a mistake. Funny, with all the incorrect and bad information posted
on this forum, you have only started a new thread on the subject when you
thought I said something wrong... Get over your vindictiveness and need to
get revenge , its pathetic.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264350#264350
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
John, The book says demonstrated cross wind capability, not maximum. I had a
girl friend who lived at the beach. I suppose I could call it a humongous
rudder but I'm more modest than that. :-)
Rick
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 9:50 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> Must have been a humongous rudder on that 150.
>
> I am not 150 qualifed, but I bet the book says the max cross wind component
> is about 15 mph at 90 degrees.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
>
>
> Be comparison with the Mk III, I've landed a 150 in direct crosswinds of
> 30 mph and still had rudder available to maintain heading on the runway
> centerline. In 1/3 that wind (on average judging by the windsock) the Mk III
> rudder was mostly against the stop if I cut to idle power.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
At 01:59 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Possums wrote:
> >
> > Does the prop windmill on a 912 engine? It won't on a 503 with no clutch.
>
>
>No, the prop comes to a very abrupt and sudden stop when the engine
>is shut down on a 912-S. I think even if I dived to over 100 MPH
>and the prop would still not windmill.
>
>I remember some engine off videos you posted a long time back
>Possums, did your glide increase or decrease with the engine off ?
>
>Mike
>
>--------
>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
>you could have !!!
Mine glides better with the prop stopped. About 500 fpm? drop on a
nice calm day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
[size=12]Rick,
To help clear up my understanding of your working theory please answer the following
questions:
1- When flying at cruise power or higher, is your prop producing a net positive
thrust force or net drag force (negative thrust)?
2- Would the glide performance of your airplane with power off and prop stopped
be better or worse than if the prop were not even on the engine? In other words,
would the total drag of the airplane gliding at a given speed be more or less
with a stopped prop or no prop at all on the airplane?
Thanks for your help.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264359#264359
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> |
Jim Kmet wrote: << Dan Patrick. Newly built MK-3X Was not his first
flight. Low time Light sport pilot. I know no more details, but will
try to find out. >>
This XTra was powered by an HKS-700.
Not trying to speculate here, but I wonder if being underpowered could
have contributed to Dan's unfortunate accident. Isn't 60 hp somewhat
marginal power for a Mark-IIIX?
Dennis Kirby
New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Mike
I apologise for not understanding your post correctly; but I'm hardly
'vindictive' or 'desperate', I don't need 'revenge' and I hope I'm
not 'pathetic'
Please accept my sincere apology.
Russ K
On Sep 22, 2009, at 2:21 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> Russ,
>
> In your jubilation and glee when you thought you had found that I
> made a mistake, you were in such a hurry to start a new thread and
> point out that I had made an a mistake that you failed to read what
> I posted and understand it. I said if the BIG windmilling prop on
> TOP of the gyrocopter ever stopped - Meaning the ROTOR, the
> gyrocopter would fall like a rock, which is very true.
>
> You sure are desperate to find something wrong with something I
> have posted, it took you only a couple minutes for you to start a
> new thread on where you thought I made a mistake. Funny, with
> all the incorrect and bad information posted on this forum, you
> have only started a new thread on the subject when you thought I
> said something wrong... Get over your vindictiveness and need to
> get revenge , its pathetic.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264350#264350
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Hey guys,
?My 503 idled at 1780 rpm,but it would always be turning 2200 or better on landing
with the nose down and it really helped keep the speed down,you could feel
it.3 blade IVO.
?G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC
?
At 01:59 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:?
>?
>?
>Possums wrote:?
> >?
> > Does the prop windmill on a 912 engine? It won't on a 503 with no clutch.?
>?
>?
>No, the prop comes to a very abrupt and sudden stop when the engine
>is shut down on a 912-S. I think even if I dived to over 100 MPH
>and the prop would still not windmill.?
>?
>I remember some engine off videos you posted a long time back
>Possums, did your glide increase or decrease with the engine off ??
>?
>Mike?
>?
>--------?
>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
>you could have !!!?
?
Mine glides better with the prop stopped. About 500 fpm? drop on a
nice calm day.?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
> BTW, gyrocopters do NOT "fall like a rock" without power. They
> autorotate down to a smooth landing.
> Helicopters can of course autorotate to a fairly soft landing if
> they have enough altitude to get everything done in time.
> "Fall like a rock"? I don't think so.
> Russ K
Russ K/Gang:
Gyros are right behind rocks when they lose power. They are in contant
autorotation when flying, with or without a source of thrust.
Helicopters feel like they are falling out of the sky in autorotation,
especially a 180 degree autorotation. Even normal approaches to land a
steep compared to fixed wing aircraft. Guess that is one reason I have
always been comfortable flying Kolbs.
Helicopters used to have a dead man's curve, when I was flying them many
years ago, published in the operational manual. This was the
airspeed/altitude that an autorotation would probably not be sucessful.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
> Have you ever tried Dead stick gliding and landings in your MK III ???
My minimum descent rate in my Kolb MK III Xtra is 500 FPM at 55 MPH and 1800
RPM - Minimum Idle power for my Rotax 912-S. When I shut down the engine
and stop the prop completely, my descent rate increases to 900 Feet per
minute, it is much worse [Evil or Very Mad] This was the total opposite
of what I was expecting, but I have done this a number of times and this is
just the way it is in my Kolb. It does not make any sense and goes against
theory, but I have tried varying the airspeeds, and tested this quite a
number of times with always the same result, when I stop the prop instead of
idle at 1800 RPM, my glide is reduced by a huge amount.
>
> Mike
Mike B/Gang:
Yes, I have done many dead stick landings in my mkIII.
I don't remember the numbers, but I do remember the glide being much better
with a dead stick.
Minimum rpm at closed throttle on my 912ULS while flying is about 2200 rpm.
On the ground I have my idle set for about 1700 rpm.
Sometimes Kolbs do some screwy things that "experts" with other airplanes
can not explain. This increased rate of decent while dead stick may be one
of them. When I get home and start flying again I'll check it out and see
what I come up with.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
> Does the prop windmill on a 912 engine? It won't on a 503 with no clutch.
Possum/Gang:
Not from dead stick, but my 912ULS does increase from around 1600-1700 rpm
to about 2200 rpm during gliding decents.
>From dead stick, the prop stays stuck. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Rick,
If the prop at cruise power is producing positive thrust and the prop stopped is
producing negative thrust (drag), then at some point between cruise rpm and
zero rpm the net thrust goes from positive to negative. At that rpm for that airspeed,
the net thrust is exactly zero. With the rpm above that (being driving
by a running engine), there is some positive net thrust. With the engine running
at any rpm below that transition point from positive to negative the net
result is drag all the way down to and including zero rpm.
Maybe John H's MkIII has better glide with the engine and prop stopped than at
idle power at the same airspeed but none of my airplanes have done that nor does
Mike Bigelow's MkIIIX, according to his recent report. During my next flight
I will note the descent speeds at my normal approach airspeed with engine at
idle and with the engine stopped. I'll be mightily surprised if the descent rate
with the prop stopped is lower than when at idle power. But I'm open to being
surprised. Nothing like empirical evidence to prove one right or wrong.
In either case, I agree with John H. that it is a good idea to get familiar with
your airplanes' glide characteristics with the engine actullay stopped. This
is not something you want to learn when it is an actual emergency.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264415#264415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
At 03:11 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>[size=12]Rick,
>
>To help clear up my understanding of your working theory please
>answer the following questions:
>
>1- When flying at cruise power or higher, is your prop producing a
>net positive thrust force or net drag force (negative thrust)?
>
>2- Would the glide performance of your airplane with power off and
>prop stopped be better or worse than if the prop were not even on
>the engine? In other words, would the total drag of the airplane
>gliding at a given speed be more or less with a stopped prop or no
>prop at all on the airplane?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>--------
>Thom Riddle
I don't under stand how a stopped prop (you can consider the frontal
area of the prop to be the total source of drag) would slow
you down more than a spinning prop. Either It's pushing the plane
forward producing thrust at whatever speed or at
the other extreme, the whole swept area of the spinning prop is
considered as a flat drag plate when it's windmilling.
Or you have the magic touch and can spin the prop at the exact RPM to
create no drag at all.
It would bet better with no prop at all or a folding prop as seen on some self
propelled gliders. The cleaner you plane is the more this might matter.
I don't think it would make much difference in a Quicksilver.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
[quote="Possums"]At 03:11 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:
>
> [size=12]Rick,
>
> To help clear up my understanding of your working theory please answer the following
questions:
>
> 1- When flying at cruise power or higher, is your prop producing a net positive
thrust force or net drag force (negative thrust)?
>
> 2- Would the glide performance of your airplane with power off and prop stopped
be better or worse than if the prop were not even on the engine? In other
words, would the total drag of the airplane gliding at a given speed be more or
less with a stopped prop or no prop at all on the airplane?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I don't under stand how a stopped prop (you can consider the frontal area of the
prop to be the total source of drag) would slow
you down more than a spinning prop. Either It's pushing the plane forward producing
thrust at whatever speed or at
the other extreme, the whole swept area of the spinning prop is considered as
a flat drag plate when it's windmilling.
Or you have the magic touch and can spin the prop at the exact RPM to create no
drag at all.
It would bet better with no prop at all or a folding prop as seen on some self
propelled gliders. The cleaner you plane is the more this might matter.
I don't think it would make much difference in a Quicksilver.
> [b]
******************************************************
According to this web site, there is a negative thrust from a windmilling prop
at some combination of windmilling rpm and glide speed.
http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/Drag%20prop/Drag%20From%20Prop.htm
Don't know if it's true or not, but interesting.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264448#264448
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
I don't under stand how a stopped prop (you can consider the frontal area of
the prop to be the total source of drag) would slow
you down more than a spinning prop.>
If you practice emergency landings by closing the throttle to idle you are
in for a rude awakening when the engine really stops. You will not make the
field you expect.
been there etc.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | windmilling props |
If your conjecture was true windmills would be increasing the rate of
the earth's rotation. :-)
They are! They are! Thats why the wind hasn`t stopped blowing here for
ages.
Worried
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
Kind of like a town mayor.>>
Thanks Bill,
In theory in the UK you have to have a cathedral to be a city and you
have to be a city to have a Mayor.
Smaller places have `Chairman of the Council`.
Like so much else the edges have become blurred and my local town,
where my father was Chairman of the Council about 4 times during his 25
years as a Councillor now has a Mayor. The Council is elected with a
third coming up for re election every 3 years, but the Council elect
their own Chairman.
Its all part of giving a posh title to everybody. I remember when the
roadsweeper, a title with which he seemed to be completely happy, became
a `lengthsman`. Presumably because he was responsible for a length of
road. He is something even more grandiose now.
Its all very Gilbert and Sullivan. "When everyone is somebody then no
ones anybody"
You just have a bigger name tag. A bigger patch on your arm. Just to
keep this Kolb related I saw a guy at a fly in with a pair of gold
wings and a patch with his name on with PILOT on it Good grief!
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) |
Baggywrinkle - N. ME, usually seen on the large ladies of Walmart>>
Nice one, Richard.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
...If you practice emergency landings by closing the throttle to idle you are
in for a rude awakening when the engine really stops. You will not make the field
you expect....
Pat,
Thank you. That is exactly the point I've been trying to make. That a stopped prop
creates more drag than a prop at idle power.
This has nothing at all to do with a WINDMILLING prop. A windmilling prop is one
that is being driven by the relative wind in glide with the engine inop. NOTHING
LIKE an engine at idle power.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264471#264471
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
Richard,
http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/Drag%20prop/Drag%20From%20Prop.htm
<http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/Drag%20prop/Drag%20From%20Prop.htm>Excellent
link. Thanks for posting.
I think part of the confusion or perhaps misunderstanding is with the term
windmilling. When the engine is running, the prop is not windmilling, it is
being powered by the engine. In speed reduced props(gear or belt) like most
Kolbs have, there is no windmilling with a dead engine at normal approach
glide speeds. I doubt that my direct drive Jabiru engine will windmill
either at my normal approach speed with engine stopped but don't know
because I have not yet tried it, but will during my next flight. My
contention is that a stopped prop produces more drag than a prop when the
engine is at idle power. I've said nothing about a windmilling prop which
indeed produces more drag than a stopped prop as this link demostrates.
When the engine is running the prop is not windmilling. The idle power
prop/engine speed is greater in gliding flight than on the ground because
the AOA of the blade is less as the forward speed increases as your link
shows very well. The reduced AOA is responsible for the higher rpm at idle
power vs sitting on the ground at zero forward speed. This reduced AOA of
blade at increased forward speed also explains why WOT static rpm is less
than WOT during climb. The forward speed reduces the AOA of the blade and
thus the drag of the blade allowing higher RPM.
Thom in Buffalo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
| From: | "robcannon" <leecannon(at)telus.net> |
I have an HKS on a Mark I. It does fine on this but the gross weight is exceeded
with an average weight passenger. I understand the fellow who clipped the
trees has an Mark III with an HKS and would love to hear a flying report.
Rob Cannon
Saltspring Island BC
250-537-8733
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264509#264509
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
Aircraft Spruce sent me a little 4-5 inch tube when I ordered the vent tube for
my bing carb. I know it looked small in the picture but I thought it was just
showing a portion of it. I was expecting a much longer piece that I could put
holes in that reaches from one plug to the other (as in the picture), but apparently
you have to get some primer line and make your own. I had bought some
tubing from the local hardware store but it has gotten soft on the bottom and
I wanted to replace it with the "right stuff".
>From looking at the pictures of the carbs on the Bing site, that little tube is
what is actually used, one on each side, on those carbs. Looks like they tuck
it under the float bowl clamp (see second picture attached). Of course that's
not how we do it on our planes.
I found some history on the update on the ultralightnews website as to why we don't
do it that way:
>From http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/bingservice.html
Vent tubes
On older model carbs there were two vent tubes, one coming out each side of the
unit. The latest carbs have one vent tube connected to the two venting outlets
- with breather holes in the center section of the vent tube.
Apparently in the older style of venting system air could enter one vent line and
exit the other causing havoc with the float metering system. The new system
prevents this giving a more stable fuel supply.
This new style of vent can be made from a piece of primer line and putting two
side by side holes in the BOTTOM of the line in the center, these holes are about
30% of the diameter of the primer line. Too small and they will not allow
the carb to breath properly.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264515#264515
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/upate_venttube_166.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bing54_carburator_199.gif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
In the same crowd with a low powered MkIII, I don't see how a normal
landing would make
any difference. -that is excluding unstable ar ledge landings at
high altitudes.
The guy honestly admitted to temporary poor judgement. I give him
sympathy and a salute.
BB
On 23, Sep 2009, at 9:50 AM, robcannon wrote:
>
> I have an HKS on a Mark I. It does fine on this but the gross
> weight is exceeded with an average weight passenger. I understand
> the fellow who clipped the trees has an Mark III with an HKS and
> would love to hear a flying report.
> Rob Cannon
> Saltspring Island BC
> 250-537-8733
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264509#264509
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lesson learned-don't order vent line for Bing carb |
- Cristal- I suggest you get a catalog from Lockwood Aviation in Sebring,
Florida.- Telephone number is 1-800-527-6829.- There catalog has parts
breakdowns, torque specs, and all kinds of goodies.- Prices are good, se
rvice great.
-
-------------------------
------------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------ FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
> Cristal- I suggest you get a catalog from Lockwood Aviation in Sebring, Florida.
Telephone number is 1-800-527-6829. There catalog has parts breakdowns,
torque specs, and all kinds of goodies. Prices are good, service great.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
> FS 447
>
Bill,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure Lockwood is good to order from too. I don't
blame Aircraft Spruce. That is what they get from the manufacturer. That
is what shows in the diagrams to use, and that's what I told them I wanted (ordered
it online actually). I love ordering from Spruce. I ordered my stuff from
them at 11am Monday and got it by 3pm Tuesday. I've never had any trouble
from them. I've not had any trouble returning stuff to them either which is
probably what I'll do with these two little plastic tubes unless I find some other
use for them.
Just got a call from Bing, they let me know the actual part number I need is 861
940. I went ahead and ordered it from them. I know, some of you listers will
say just use something cheaper, but the way things have been going with me,
having to fix one thing after another on this carb, I just want to make sure
I have all the right parts.
Last night I found the carb that I replaced the clip on also had the old style
cup, so I put the new style cup on (that has room for the o-ring on the needle).
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264607#264607
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
I know, some of you listers will say just use something cheaper, but the
way things have been going with me, having to fix one thing after another on
this carb, I just want to make sure I have all the right parts.
>
> Cristal Waters
Cristal/Gang:
I have to go along with you on this one. If you have a question where a
part will be serviceable and reliable when you are flying, I'll opt for the
more expensive route to insure I am going to stay in the air.
I am spoiled because I don't have to go to work Monday mornings, but for
those like Cristal that work for a living, the little bit of free time you
have you don't want to spend it on the ground fixing stuff when you could be
up there flying.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What carb. inlet needle is best. |
| From: | "Carl Tosh" <carl.tosh(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Gang, I am getting ready to replace the old Ultrastar mikuni needle and seat.
What works best with the fuel pump, the plain needle or viton tip? It has the
plain now just want to see what you all think and why.
Carl
--------
mongsterone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264613#264613
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
I have an HKS on a Mark I. It does fine on this but the gross weight is
exceeded with an average weight passenger. I understand the fellow who
clipped the trees has an Mark III with an HKS and would love to hear a
flying report.>>
Hi, Clipping the trees is nothing to do with power available. It is about
getting the approach wrong.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb homecoming |
| From: | "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net> |
I was wondering also about the Home Coming so I called Travis. He said that they
would NOT be able to have it this year, hopefully will next year. He said
he realizes this will disappoint a lot of us but sales aren't all that good and
they just had a huge exspence attending Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh. I sure will
miss this as I have been looking forward to it for months. Maybe next year.
:(
Rick Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264729#264729
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Glide at idle power vs prop stopped |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
I don't want to beat the corpse any more but I did say that on my next flight I
would do some glide testing, which is what I did earlier today.
Glide with engine at idle power, NO FLAPS.
65 mph IAS - Descent rate approx 900 fpm
55 mph IAS - Descent rate approx 800 fpm
45 mph IAS - Descent rate approx 700 fpm
Glide with engine at idle power, 1/2 FLAPS (my normal landing config)
65 mph IAS - Descent rate approx 1,500 fpm (See why I don't need full flaps?)
Glide with prop stopped, NO FLAPS i.e. engine not running and no wind milling.
65 mph IAS - Descent rate approx 1,200 fpm
Your results may differ, but that is what my airplane does.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264764#264764
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Rice King clutches |
At 10:36 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
>Warp drive 3 blade 58". I practice shutting down the engine every
>now & again, mostly on purpose, and the glide ratio is more a
>trajectory than a glide, about 1 to 1. You have to point the nose at
>the ground all the way down to keep airspeed up and the prop sounds
>like a shop fan behind you. I'm currently flying a Quicksilver MXLII
>while my Twinstar is down for repairs but it has the same setup. I
>fly in flat country with lots of fields. Don't think I'd use the
>same setup in less forgiving terrain.
>
>From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Mine must be set up different - or a single seat is a lot different.
Shot with a wide angle lens - things look farther away than they really are
and I look higher than I really am, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n005ITFp9Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
At 12:15 PM 9/22/2009, Jim Kmet wrote:
>
>Message to me from Dan Patrick about mishap:
>
>Hi Jim I just got in from the field preping to get the plane out. Am fine
>just a little back and neck stiff. Y ou know the old saying "low and slow"
>on final 20o flaps rt.hand for flaps and stick to lt. hand, I went to
>40obefore the tree line, ?little low, flaps to 20o switching hands I push
>flap handle up and by accident other hand put slight forward pressure on
>the stick. I added throttle and back on the stick. Landing gear caught
>branches and went in. Poor judgement being that low. All is O K,will rebuild.
Low and slow, dump the flaps and the plane's gonna settle. Proper
procedure at that point would be add power first, then slowly lift the
flaps as the plane accelerates.
I'm in Conneticut but I don't know Dan; there are quite a few Kolbs around
here... glad to hear he's OK.
-Dana
--
Aviation is like drugs: You go up, then you come down. You are out a
big pile of money and have nothing to show for it but the experience.
And you can't wait to do it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
At 01:59 PM 9/19/2009, cristalclear13 wrote:
>
>
>[Crying or Very sad]
>I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs. I am still having the same
>symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm.
Cristal, different engine and carb, but I had a similar problem on my
UltraStar. It would run OK at full throttle if you could get it there, but
would be reluctant to get there from cruise. The problem turned out to be
the needle clip position; it was running too rich at cruise power and the
engine just bogged down and wouldn't accelerate. The day was much hotter
and humider (is that a word? more humid, then) than the last time I'd
flown it.
I doubt it's a fuel delivery problem upstream of the carburetor; if that
was the case the carb bowl would fill up at lower power settings and then
it would run fine at WOT until the float bowl starved again (had that
problem once too).
-Dana
--
Aviation is like drugs: You go up, then you come down. You are out a
big pile of money and have nothing to show for it but the experience.
And you can't wait to do it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What carb. inlet needle is best. |
At 05:20 PM 9/23/2009, Carl Tosh wrote:
>
>Hi Gang, I am getting ready to replace the old Ultrastar mikuni needle and
>seat. What works best with the fuel pump, the plain needle or viton tip?
>It has the plain now just want to see what you all think and why.
Both will work the same, as long as they're the same size. The Viton
needle is supposed to last longer in a high vibration environment (which
our planes definitely are, compared to the rigidly mounted engine in a
snowmobile).
What you do need to make sure of is that you get a 1.5mm needle which is
used with a pump. Gravity feed installations use a larger needle.
-Dana
--
Aviation is like drugs: You go up, then you come down. You are out a
big pile of money and have nothing to show for it but the experience.
And you can't wait to do it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
Mystery solved and I am in the air again! Yippee!
Check her out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci_AWK1MvIE
It's a beautiful sound!
Here's the story. After replacing my choke seals and cleaning my carbs I moved
the throttle several times and saw that both slides were moving up and down in
sync. I specifically remember checking this because I was alone and had to
go from the front to the back checking it at intervals. Then when I went to test
fly it, I had this problem that I requested help from you all. I decided
to start with the easiest things...cleaning my air filter. Tuesday night while
I had the air filter off and had my son with me I had him move the throttle...low
and behold... one slide was not moving! Grr!
The throttle cable was out of the slide. I went ahead and put the new style of
the white cup in and put her back together. Had my son move the throttle several
times and everything looked ok, but it was too dark to try her out!
So this evening I went out and put on my clean air filters and cranked her up.
She sounded so good! I ran it up a bit and still sounded good. I untied her
and Took Off! It ran better than it ever has (which is what I was expecting
after replacing that deteriorated choke seal). Next time I pull that plug I expect
it to be the nice sandy brown that the other one has always been.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264855#264855
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
> So this evening I went out and put on my clean air filters and cranked
her up. She sounded so good! I ran it up a bit and still sounded good. I
untied her and Took Off! It ran better than it ever has (which is what I
was expecting after replacing that deteriorated choke seal). Next time I
pull that plug I expect it to be the nice sandy brown that the other one has
always been.
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
Hi Cristal/Gang:
I am happy for you.
Glad you found your problem.
Usually, I find my problems are something I have "messed" with, changed,
adjusted, etc.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Myers" <gmyers(at)grandecom.net> |
| Subject: | Rice King clutches |
It is set up different, your clutch is stuck.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:09 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rice King clutches
At 10:36 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
Warp drive 3 blade 58". I practice shutting down the engine every now &
again, mostly on purpose, and the glide ratio is more a trajectory than a
glide, about 1 to 1. You have to point the nose at the ground all the way
down to keep airspeed up and the prop sounds like a shop fan behind you. I'm
currently flying a Quicksilver MXLII while my Twinstar is down for repairs
but it has the same setup. I fly in flat country with lots of fields. Don't
think I'd use the same setup in less forgiving terrain.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Mine must be set up different - or a single seat is a lot different.
Shot with a wide angle lens - things look farther away than they really are
and I look higher than I really am, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n005ITFp9Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Rice King clutches |
You guys with your clutches air getting soft - check this video out
at the link below - a dead stick take off and landing over bad terrain. jerb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z985xdXW-3w&NR=1
At 05:09 PM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
>At 10:36 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
>>Warp drive 3 blade 58". I practice shutting down the engine every
>>now & again, mostly on purpose, and the glide ratio is more a
>>trajectory than a glide, about 1 to 1. You have to point the nose
>>at the ground all the way down to keep airspeed up and the prop
>>sounds like a shop fan behind you. I'm currently flying a
>>Quicksilver MXLII while my Twinstar is down for repairs but it has
>>the same setup. I fly in flat country with lots of fields. Don't
>>think I'd use the same setup in less forgiving terrain.
>>
>>From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [
>>mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
>
>
>Mine must be set up different - or a single seat is a lot different.
>Shot with a wide angle lens - things look farther away than they really are
>and I look higher than I really am, etc.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n005ITFp9Q
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
| From: | "robcannon" <leecannon(at)telus.net> |
I was actually just looking to hear how the hks does on the Mark III extra. Will
it climb with two aboard ? etc. I must have poorly worded my original post.
Rob Cannon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264872#264872
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
Just a guess on my part, since I have owned a Mark III with a 582. The
weight of my Firestar is pretty close to what most of the lighter Mark
III weigh. The wings on the 3 are larger so it would fly, but I wouldn't
want to own one.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: robcannon
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra
I was actually just looking to hear how the hks does on the Mark III
extra. Will it climb with two aboard ? etc. I must have poorly worded
my original post.
Rob Cannon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264872#264872
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/24/09 18:00:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help please - can't take off |
| From: | "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com> |
John Hauck wrote:
> I am happy for you.
>
> Glad you found your problem.
>
> Usually, I find my problems are something I have "messed" with, changed,
> adjusted, etc.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House, Oregon
Yes, a little embarrassing, but a lot of good things came out of it. Clean air
filters, new style cup, new compensation tubes, and a lot of good advice to check
when the engine isn't running right...even things that the repair manual
doesn't mention, so maybe someone else will find this thread helpful when theirs
isn't running right.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264896#264896
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net> |
Rick, I would also be interested if you scan that info. Lanny Do not
archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 stroke carb synchronizing |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Here you go guys and gals. I'm not sure why Rotax has mechanical synching
after pneumatic. I do it the other way, that's how it's spec'd for the 912
and my HKS.This is really so simple, it just seems intimidating until you do
it once. As with all things done with a running engine, tie the plane down
and have an assistant ready to hit mag switch(es) if required. Before you
start raise throttle cable boots so you can get at the cable adjustment
screw. Give each cable a tug to see how much slop there is. When you get to
cable adjustment that's most likely the one that will have to be adjusted.
1. Adjust idle air screw per Rotax or Bing for your engine / carb combo.
2. Warm up engine to operating temperature
3. Hook up manometer (incidentally, someone on the list suggested two stroke
oil instead of water, I used transmission fluid because I had it loaded into
a pressure gun to fill the brake system on my trike. That is the easiest way
to get the fluid into the tube. Using oil also makes the levels a little
slower acting so you make an adjustment and wait a bit for the fluid column
to react. It's also less likely to get sucked into the engine if one carb is
severely out of synch to the other. To get the initial level set before you
hook up to the primer port blow into the tube with the higher level until
they're even.
4. Start engine and let idle. Screw in idle adjustment screw on carb
connected to the fluid column with the lower level until the columns are
even. If that makes your idle speed too high adjust each screw back out
until you get the idle speed you want and both fluid columns are even. If
you do have to back out an idle adjustment screw make sure you haven't
brought the throttle cable up tight so that the carb piston is no longer
setting on the adjustment screw.
5. Set RPM to 3000. Loosen adjustment screw on the top of the carb with the
lower fluid column and screw out adjustment until columns are almost even
and tighten lock nut (this will raise the column very slightly, which is why
you don't want to get them exactly equal. It's not much but you are after
perfection, after all).
6. Shut off engine, disconnect manometer lines and plug with an AN 3 screw
so the manometer stays clean, replace primer plugs or lines.
I did my 582 while I had the wings off as spinning props make me nervous. I
put an eyebolt (my local surplus store sells them cheap) in the board so I
could safety wire the manometer to the aircraft, you could just as easily
drill a hole and run safety wire through it.
That's it.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
I have a MK III Xtra with a 100 HP Rotax 912-S, and its perfect. I would not want
much less power than I have though. The 80 HP Rotax 912 is pretty cheap used,
and would be a much better engine for the MK III Xtra than the HKS for this
plane. I think the MK III would be ok, but not great with 80 HP.
I think the MK III Xtra would be HORRIBLE with the HKS. I think climb would be
so poor with the HKS that it would be dangerous. This is just a guess as I
have never flown an extra with that little power... I do know what my MK III
Xtra climbs like if I run just over half power, and it hardly qualifies as a climb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265059#265059
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
[quote="russkinne(at)mac.com"]Mike
I apologise for not understanding your post correctly; but I'm hardly
'vindictive' or 'desperate', I don't need 'revenge' and I hope I'm
not 'pathetic'
Please accept my sincere apology.
Russ K
On Sep 22, 2009, at 2:21 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
>
>
Russ,
I misjudged your intentions, and I owe you the apology. I have removed my previous
post to you from the forum. Given what has gone on here on the list recently,
I was to quick to jump in with a harsh reply. Thanks for the nice response.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265061#265061
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks for the report Thom, I'm glad to see that my MK III Xtra is not the only
Kolb in the world that comes down faster with the engine off than at minimum
allowed idle. This is a good subject, it will help people to be more prepared
for engine failures.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265062#265062
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
[quote="lcottrell"]Just a guess on my part, since I have owned a Mark III with
a 582. The weight of my Firestar is pretty close to what most of the lighter
Mark III weigh. The wings on the 3 are larger so it would fly, but I wouldn't
want to own one.
Larry
> ---
Reading this thread persuaded me to go back and dig out my April 1995 copy of General
Aviation News and Flyer, which had a full article on the MKIII with the
503 and 582. In the article, the 503 is described as "perfectly adequate."
(I can scan the article and post pictures of it if anybody cares)
I got a chance to fly a dual carb 503 powered MKIII with a passenger on board &
full fuel. This was a bare bones airplane, no electrical system, maybe just a
strobe, it weighed (supposedly) 475 pounds. It was really pretty much a dog,
and it was a cool morning.
So IMO, although the HKS makes more power than a 503, but less than a 582, unless
I lived in flat Midwest country, probably the HKS engine on a MKIII is not
a happy choice.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265067#265067
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What carb. inlet needle is best. |
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
I think Dana is referring to the needle seat.
The number usually denotes the inlet diameter in millimeters.
It is how Mikuni works, I am a little new to Bings.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265070#265070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
So IMO, although the HKS makes more power than a 503, but less than a
582, unless I lived in flat Midwest country, probably the HKS engine on
a MKIII is not a happy choice.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Even though the HKS makes more power than the 503, I find that it is
offset by the additional weight. I can fly faster with the HKS, but I
cannot get off the ground as quick. The only plus is the "apparent"
safety factor of the four stroke, and the longer TBO.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Larry,
?One more plus,the fuel burn of the HKS. Just slightly more than half of the 503.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra
So IMO, although the HKS makes more power than a 503, but less than a
582, unless I lived in flat Midwest country, probably the HKS engine on a MKIII
is not a happy choice.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P
(420ldPoops)
Even though the HKS makes more
power than the 503, I find that it is offset by the additional weight. I?
can fly faster with the HKS, but I cannot get off the ground as quick. The only
plus is the "apparent" safety factor of the four stroke, and the longer
TBO.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
Oh yeah, some how I forgot that. :-/ I just got back from the Alvord
Desert where some of the Top Fun Flyer's will be going for a weekend fly
out. I had a head wind of about 10 MPH going so ran full power cruise,
(5750) I burned 4 gallons for the round trip of 1.4 hours. The BLM is
burning the Steen's Mts. and visibility is terrible. It almost took the
GPS to find the place. :-/
I only took one picture the whole trip. There were a couple of wild
horses on the rim overlooking the Desert.
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra
Larry,
One more plus,the fuel burn of the HKS. Just slightly more than half
of the 503.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra
So IMO, although the HKS makes more power than a 503, but less than a
582, unless I lived in flat Midwest country, probably the HKS engine on
a MKIII is not a happy choice.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Even though the HKS makes more power than the 503, I find that it is
offset by the additional weight. I can fly faster with the HKS, but I
cannot get off the ground as quick. The only plus is the "apparent"
safety factor of the four stroke, and the longer TBO.
Larry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/25/09 17:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: There I was, FDAH (fat, dumb, and happy) |
| From: | "Carl Tosh" <carl.tosh(at)yahoo.com> |
Rick, sounds as if things were real exciting today at Augusta Airport. I started
to go to the flyin but, my grandson wanted to go fishing. We went to Butler
Lake and youngin landed a 2lb. bass he was very excited. I would rather have
went to flyin and got him a young eagles ride, he's 9yrs. old. I maybe would have
met you. I live out by Smillyburg east of Douglass. We know some of same people,
the Alleys, Lawrance, WWII pilot and his son Terry. Lawrance flies clipped
wing Cub and Terry now has a Kitfox Lite, with half VW. Terry goes to Selby
field ever once in a while. I have a Micro Mong biplane with an A084a (Hercules
engine) and I'm rebuilding an old Ultrastar. So glad you didn't get hurt today.
Carl
--------
mongsterone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265165#265165
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: There I was, FDAH (fat, dumb, and happy) |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Rick,
So glad to hear you handled the engine-out landing well, especially considering
you had to dodge a wrong way departing aircraft. I guess your prior prop stopped
glide practice paid off, knowing what sort of glide you could expect compared
to idle power glide.
Good report on suspected problem too.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265191#265191
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Emergency landings |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Thom, et al, I have never done a stopped prop landing, ever, until
yesterday. I personally don't see the point. If the atmosphere were a
constant it would make some sense, but it's not. Anything I were to practice
on a given day would be almost completely irrelevant to another. Headwinds,
tailwinds, convective activity, and obstructions to the wind all play a part
and can change by the minute. Knowing something about the aircraft by rote
is of little use in a dynamic situation.So what can you do / what do I do?
As I said in my post yesterday, I had an instructor who drilled the concept
of FIRST FLY THE AIRCRAFT into me. No matter what else I was doing in the
cockpit right then, his voice was still in my head, "First Fly the
Aircraft".
I also know about the spot that does not move, or rather the band that does
not move. This is a very simple concept to learn, it DOES work in all
situations and conditions and it will NEVER fail you, unless you are
suddenly struck blind while in the cockpit. :-)
The concept is simple. All of you going flying today can check it out. From
any altitude you choose (higher is better for this purpose) set any descent
throttle setting you choose at any airspeed you choose. Look out in front of
you at objects on the ground. Some will appear to be moving toward you and
some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects that
appear to be stationary. That narrow band is the furthest you can reach
under the current conditions. Anything inside that band is a good bet for an
emergency landing, anything outside is impossible, UNLESS conditions change.
Change any of the variables and see how the band moves. At best glide it is
one place, at minimum sink it is in another. It will move and change, but
the concept is always constant. You cannot reach any spot on the ground that
appears to be moving away from you.
I learned this flying hang gliders before I ever knew that Langewiesche had
described it in "Stick and Rudder" a generation before. He explained it
completely and illustrated it, too. If you only get a copy for that concept,
the book has paid for itself.
As long as I'm on the podium let me ask, how many of you stop and take a few
minutes to evaluate conditions before you fly? I'm not talking about calling
1-800-WXBRIEF, I'm talking about standing on the ramp, away from buildings
and obstructions, feeling what the wind is doing right then, right there.
The briefer will give you meteorology which is useful for flying cross
country and long range outlook.
What is just as useful, IMHO, is micrometeorology, what the atmosphere is
doing here and now. With a little knowledge and practice you can begin to
visualize what is happening and why. I know every current and former soaring
pilot is nodding his head right now. We learned this as a part of our flying
because the atmosphere IS the engine for soaring. Most of you who only fly
powered aircraft have probably not.
If you are interested, I recommend Dennis Pagen's book, "Understanding the
Sky" or his earlier book, "Micrometeorology for Pilots". The former is
available from Amazon, among others, the latter may be out of print, I
didn't look that hard. Either will give you a good primer on the subject.
End of sermon. :-)
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
| From: | "dalewhelan" <dalewhelan(at)earthlink.net> |
I practiced dead stick landings in preparation for the day I had a real one.
That day came and I was confident, I think that made me more able to fly my plane.
I think why put yourself in that position is a valid point.
My thought is why find yourself if the unknown?
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265212#265212
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Rick, nice job on the forced landing with no damage, I'm always glad to see something
like this turn out well for a fellow Kolb flyer.
There is a huge advantage to having flown my Kolb with the prop actually stopped
as opposed to minimum idle. Before I tried actually shutting down the engine
in flight, I was planning on about 500 FPM sink and much better glide. When
I actually shut down the engine in flight, I found that my sink was almost
DOUBLE of what it was at minimum idle, and that my glide would be far less than
I was used to. Knowing this before hand and having practice at this in perfect
conditions is far better than having to figure it out in a few seconds in
the middle of an emergency.
How many people could unlearn many months of practice of unrealistically long glides
in engine failure simulations, and adapt to something much worse than expected
within a few seconds during an emergency and do a good job at it ? It
can be done, but its a setup for failure. Knowing how your plane performs
when that prop suddenly stops before it is an emergency is a huge advantage.
Some Kolbs have a longer glide with the engine stopped, some like mine have a drastically
reduced glide, which is why everyone should find a way to safely test
it in their plane.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265216#265216
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | curtis groote <cgroote1(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Firestar ll kit for sale |
I'm in various stages of the covering process of my Firestar ll and have to
o many irons in the fire so I'll sell it. -No engine. -Cost of material
s so far is $11,367. -Will take $7500 OBO. -Curt Groote -Rapid City,
SD -605-348-7170=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Some will appear to be moving toward you and
some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects
that
appear to be stationary. >>
Hi Richard,
anyone who has sailed will be familiar with this concept. If from your
boat you take a bearing on another boat on an intersection course and it
doesnt change YOU WILL HIT THE OTHER BOAT. Similarly if you are pointing
as high on the wind as you can go (this is disregarding marine motorists
in stink boats) and the bearing of the harbour, headland or whatever is
unchanging, that is where you will end up.
For flying all you have to do is turn the concept through 90 degrees.
Incidentally i should be flying at this moment. Lovely day. nil wind.
Planned a quiet 30 mile trundle to a neighbouring field. Trip to garage
to buy fuel. Took front off the hangar took the covers off and pushed
her out. Filled up. Did pre flight. Strapped in. Switch on compass.
Check GPS is Off. Set choke, set throttle, switches ON. B*gg*r . I had
left the Master switch ON when I flew 2 days ago and in spite of my
solar charger the battery was dead as a dodo. No spanners so I cant
take the battery out to put on charge. Drive home 3 miles away. Really
should drive back and get the battery out and on charge. Too far.
Have to lecture on flight at a school tomorrow so I will prepare for
that instead.
Best laid plans etc etc.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Pat, Been there a couple of times with the discharged battery. When I
rewired Zulu Delta I put in two big LED's for the two positions of the
master switch that can discharge the battery and put them right under the
key switch to the starter relay. If I don't switch it off now I suppose I
could get a seat sensor at the wrecking yard and hook it to an alarm bell or
a strobe. :-)
Rick
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:12 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
> Some will appear to be moving toward you and
> some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects
> that
> appear to be stationary. >>
>
> Hi Richard,
> anyone who has sailed will be familiar with this concept. If from your boat
> you take a bearing on another boat on an intersection course and it doesnt
> change YOU WILL HIT THE OTHER BOAT. Similarly if you are pointing as high on
> the wind as you can go (this is disregarding marine motorists in stink
> boats) and the bearing of the harbour, headland or whatever is unchanging,
> that is where you will end up.
>
> For flying all you have to do is turn the concept through 90 degrees.
>
> Incidentally i should be flying at this moment. Lovely day. nil
> wind. Planned a quiet 30 mile trundle to a neighbouring field. Trip to
> garage to buy fuel. Took front off the hangar took the covers off and pushed
> her out. Filled up. Did pre flight. Strapped in. Switch on compass. Check
> GPS is Off. Set choke, set throttle, switches ON. B*gg*r . I had left the
> Master switch ON when I flew 2 days ago and in spite of my solar charger the
> battery was dead as a dodo. No spanners so I cant take the battery out to
> put on charge. Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the
> battery out and on charge. Too far.
> Have to lecture on flight at a school tomorrow so I will prepare for that
> instead.
> Best laid plans etc etc.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com> |
> Of course your landing is always done with forward airspeed when the engine
> is at idle. If not, it loses rotor rpm quickly.
>
>
John,
A gyro does not loose rotor rpm at zero airspeed. The rotor self regulates its
rpm unlike a helicopter.
We need forward speed to add energy to the rotor to arrest the sink rate. Similar
to a fixed wing you can land right above stall speed but you don't have energy
to flair and arrest the sink rate.
A vertical landing is possible in a gyro but the sink rate is too high for a good
landing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265348#265348
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
In a message dated 9/28/2009 8:28:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:
if you have access to the battery you may be able to hook jumper cables,
leave the car on fast idle for half an hour
sufficient for a light charge. -Unless, of course, the car has an old
English charging system :)
Old English charging system? That would be Lucas-The Prince of Darkness.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
In a message dated 9/28/2009 7:22:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the battery out
and on charge. Too far.
Pat,
3 miles too far??? Some of us here in the states drive more than 20 times
that far. I personally drive 32 miles one way every time I go flying.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Pat,
I feel your frustration.
I did the same thing shortly after returning home with my new-to-me Slingshot.
Fortunately for me, the builder (a commercial electrician) of this fine Slingshot
had the foresight to run a quick disconnect cable from the battery, buried
deep in the nose, to an easy access point and also provided a set of cables with
the quick disconnect fitting on one end and alligator clips on the other,
so it was a simple matter to hook it up to my car battery, start the Jabiru and
let the engine alternator charge the battery. It would have been a very large
PITA to get to the battery itself, probably requiring removal of the nose cone.
I plan to replace the current master switch with a lighted circuit breaker switch
during the winter while my SS is stored.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265510#265510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
sufficient for a light charge.
Hi,
Just about possible in a real emergency but I doubt that a `Light`
charge will hack it. it needs a fair bit of wump to turn over four
cylinders with no compression lifter.
`<>
Thats the boys. The ones who don`t know a sheet from a halliard and
think they are sailors.
Sorry! Prejudices showing.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Yeah, what a puss! :-) >>
I know Larry. I thought that when I typed it, but at my age there are
other priorities. Like getting in my afternoon snooze and I had already
driven to the field and back.
Pathetic isn`t it? I can remember the time I would happily drag my boat
65 miles to the coast after work to get in a couple of hours sailing.
Load it up and drive home again. Sadly that sort of energy has gone with
the wind.
Done my flying talk to the local school this morning. Now 12.50 and a
lovely day. Nil wind, sunny. Intended to wash the plane today but may
just have enough energy to drive to the field and refit the battery and
perhaps get a circuit in this afternoon but I have a drinking
appointment at the pub at 6 and that cuts the time down.
Thats b*gg***d it. Wendy has just suggested that we go to the pub for
lunch. Thats the whole day shot.
Its a tough life but somebody has to do it.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
He brought it to a hover at about 2000' feet and switched off the
key. >>
Hi Robert,
having been interested in gyrocoptors ever since Bensen when gyros became
`approved` over here I booked a ride.
The instructor took us off pretty sharply and threw it around a bit and then
brought it to a hover at about 1000 ft. I watched the ASI as the speed
decayed and then we began to fly backwards. Its a funny feeling to a
`normal` pilot to watch the ground retreating in front of you. He then said
"I expect you are wondering what would happen if the engine stopped now`
and switched off. Except that it got quiet it was a non event. He put the
nose down and we descended fairly rapidly but not excessively so, flared and
landed right on the numbers. Very nice.
We then took off and he flew a chicane at about 5 feet all the way along a
series of traffic cones. Super.
The approval was withdrawn after a series of accidents shortly afterwards so
I never pursued that particular branch of flying. New models are now back
on the `approved `list so there are quite a few about but not for me.
Cheer
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com> |
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:08 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
>
> The approval was withdrawn after a series of accidents shortly afterwards
> so I never pursued that particular branch of flying. New models are now
> back on the `approved `list so there are quite a few about but not for me.
>
The gyro community collectively had an epiphany in the not too distant past,
whereas they realized that by making gyro's truly center-line-thrust, and by
installing a horizontal stabilizer, the safety improvement was radical and
game-changing. (Not 100% of the gyro enthusiasts agree with these two
changes, but the aerodynamics are irrefutable.) The other change has been
the improving training environment. Combined, these changes convinced me it
was time to complement my fixed-wing flying, and I'm enjoying every moment.
The thing I love best is my flight stability even in thermally, gusty,
rough air -- very common in Texas. In my Kolb, I have to fight the plane,
thrashing the stick around, dancing with my feet, to keep wings, well,
almost level -- not much fun -- whereas in the gyro, in the same conditions,
I notice the air is a bit more blustery, and when a gust hits the side of my
empennage I might get a bit of yaw, but I can still fly hands and feet off!
That is a huge difference in comfort and the feeling of stability.... much
more enjoyable. And the turns are wicked!
:-)
-- Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
plan to replace the current master switch with a lighted circuit breaker
switch >>
Hi Thom,
thats looks a good idea.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Just a suggestion, but I took two of the little colored auto lights, and
use them to tell me when my master switch is on and when my electric
fuel pump is on. They fit in a 1/2 inch hole. Of course my facet pump is
connected to the master switch and when the switch is on, I can hear the
pump working, so I have a visual and auditory clue that I am forgetting
something. Cost is about 3 bucks apiece, when you need a good battery-
Priceless!
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Emergency landings
plan to replace the current master switch with a lighted circuit
breaker
switch >>
Hi Thom,
thats looks a good idea.
Cheers
Pat
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/28/09 17:53:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
That is a huge difference in comfort and the feeling of stability....
much
more enjoyable. And the turns are wicked!>>
Hi Robert,
The improved `gust resistance` is due to the high wing loading I assume.
Re turns. The instructor I flew with when he finished his slalom of
the traffic cones said `Lets go across the field and attack that hangar.
We got clearance and dashed across the field, over the main runway, at
about 20 ft. and to my amazement there was a Heinkel 111 parked in the
lee of the hangar. Where it came from or if it was real or a mock up I
never found out but we bored into the attack by flying down the opposite
side of the hangar, banking steeply, round the side wall and popped out
behind the hangar with metaphoric guns blazing. Great fun..
Nearly made me forget the picture of a pilot flying a demonstration of a
Benson. I don`t think he had ever flown a gyro before but he was the
only guy they could get. He looked scared to death before he even got
into the thing. He got it into the air and did the most tentative
circuit I have ever seen. Obviously the blades had not been balanced and
the stick was shaking in the pilots hand, backward s a forwards every
time the blades went round. He put the plane down and staggered away
without a backward glance and could not be persuaded to fly again. Never
seen a guy so scared.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
bought up by the
makers of the film, "The Battle of Britain" >>
Hi Richard,
sad to think that film could not be made now. The planes do not exist
and the CG stuff just doesn`t cut it. See the last version of Tora!
Tora! Rubbish compared to the original even if they did use T6`s for
Zero`s.
Peter Jackson has a number of old planes stuck away in a hangar down in
NZ and there are runours that he would like to do a war epic....vereee
interesstting.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: Pictures of Middlefield: |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Things are quiet here are they not?Here are a couple picts of the last fly-in
at CGS' former home field.Don James of JBM industries took these .Thom, are your
VG's placed further back than these on my MK-3?
? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Don James <jbmindustries(at)att.net>
Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:40 pm
Subject: Pictures of Middlefield:
?
?
?
?
Donald James
JBM Industries
Kent, Ohio?
44240?? USA
?
330-678-9537
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz> |
He's { Peter Jackson} is working on a dam busters movie. He has a
collection of WW1 planes in Blenheim.The AirPort his aircraft fly from
is called Omaka . They are flown at wings over Wanaka every other Easter
and at the Marlborough air show every other Easter.
You can see some of the collection at Omaka Aviation Heritage centre.{
You can google that}
You will see more of this subject at "thevintageaviator.co.nz"
To keep this Kolb related ,My Kolb shares hanger space with my replica
Sopwith camal.
Regards
Downunder
MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gyros
bought up by the
makers of the film, "The Battle of Britain" >>
Hi Richard,
sad to think that film could not be made now. The planes do not exist
and the CG stuff just doesn`t cut it. See the last version of Tora!
Tora! Rubbish compared to the original even if they did use T6`s for
Zero`s.
Peter Jackson has a number of old planes stuck away in a hangar down
in NZ and there are runours that he would like to do a war
epic....vereee interesstting.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Pictures of Middlefield: |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Gary,
Great photos of your Kolb, and I can see your VGs very well but can't measure their
location in the photo :-).
Mine are located with the top most part of the VG (aft end) at 6.5" aft of the
leading edge as measured parallel to the lower surface of the wing. This means
the aft end of the VG is 8.5" from the center of the leading edge tube as measured
along the upper surface of the wing with a flexible tape.
I sure like your Jabiru engine fairing.... how much you want for it? If you don't
want to sell it, maybe some day if you take your airplane out of service for
a couple weeks, I can borrow it from you to copy.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265831#265831
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Msg for Matt Dralle |
Matt
A small thing perhaps, but I'm getting two copies of every incoming
email. You may have 2 email addresses for me?
preferred one is russkinne(at)mac.com
This one should also work - russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Thanx, best,
Russ Kinne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Sorry,List; that should have gone only to Matt.
On Oct 1, 2009, at 9:18 AM, russ kinne wrote:
>
> Matt
> A small thing perhaps, but I'm getting two copies of every incoming
> email. You may have 2 email addresses for me?
>
> preferred one is russkinne(at)mac.com
>
> This one should also work - russ(at)rkiphoto.com
>
> Thanx, best,
> Russ Kinne
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
He's { Peter Jackson} is working on a dam busters movie. >>
Thats great news. I understood something was brewing. What is Jackson
going to do about Guy Gibsons dog? You probably can`t call a dog
`Nigger` these days. Historical accuracy or will the pc fraternity win
out yet again.
Difficult film to make .The original with Richard Todd was a classic and
in spite of the poor `effects`(the best at the time) it is one of the
best war films (along with Ice Cold in Alex) produced. Those of my age
have a great feeling for that film and would hate to have it `messed
about`
In NZ for a month in Feb. next year but planning to stay in the Bay of
Islands so little chance of getting to South Island.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com> |
Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand etc. on
MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they are spaced
so close together and sometimes get in the way.
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265944#265944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
I have heal brakes on my Mk3C that I feel the levers are to short and I cant get
enough pressure on them to get good braking power with the 800-6 Tires I have
on it now? I am going to extend the pedals if that doesnt cut it I will make
toe brakes next
Ellery in Maine
-----Original Message-----
From: albertakolbmk3 <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 7:58 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Heel brakes or ???
Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand etc. on
MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they are spaced
so close together and sometimes get in the way.
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265944#265944
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
At 07:58 PM 10/1/2009, albertakolbmk3 wrote:
>Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand
>etc. on MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that
>they are spaced so close together and sometimes get in the way.
I have heel brakes on my UltraStar and I feel it's the perfect setup. The
levers connect to Hegar cylinders driving Black Max brakes.
-Dana
--
Mr. Cole's Axiom:
The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is
growing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I have heel brakes on my Mk III with Azusa brakes. Hate the things. The
brakes are adequate for the job, the heel levers make them difficult to
use. They will NOT be on the aircraft next spring.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
> At 07:58 PM 10/1/2009, albertakolbmk3 wrote:
>
>> Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand
>> etc. on MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they
>> are spaced so close together and sometimes get in the way.
>>
>
> I have heel brakes on my UltraStar and I feel it's the perfect setup. The
> levers connect to Hegar cylinders driving Black Max brakes.
>
> -Dana
> --
> Mr. Cole's Axiom:
> The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is
> growing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> |
......I like my toe brakes.....
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 70.hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265963#265963
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
I don't have a Mark III, but I do have a Firestar if that counts. I did
have a Mark III with heel brakes, and I didn't like them. I have tried
toe brakes on a 150, didn't like that either. I used to have one hand
brake on the Firestar and changed it to two individual hand brakes on
the stick. I like that a lot. I had to make a "deally bob" to hold the
levers, but it was worth it.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ces308
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Heel brakes or ???
......I like my toe brakes.....
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 70.hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265963#265963
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/01/09 18:23:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
I concur, also hating the suckers! On real tight turning situations, I
use one foot to operate the rudder, then the other foot to assist on the
brake, a real meschuckene operation. Rick, when you are done with the
change-over, take some pictures to show, you may start a trend.
On a previous Homebuilt, a Zenair CH200, also a tail dragger, I needed to
change the angle of the brake pad activator, further back to avoid
inadvertent use. Yes, then one had to pretty much stand on tip-toe to activate
the
brakes, but it was reasonably safe from putting the aircraft on its nose
inadvertently. Multiple attach holes on the activator arm may let you more
easily find the correct angle while flight/taxi testing.
Herb Graff
Mark III, 246KT
In a message dated 10/1/2009 8:47:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:
I have heel brakes on my Mk III with Azusa brakes. Hate the things. The
brakes are adequate for the job, the heel levers make them difficult to use.
They will NOT be on the aircraft next spring.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
You got pictures????
Herb Graff
Mark III 246KT
In a message dated 10/1/2009 9:17:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ces308(at)ldaco.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308"
......I like my toe brakes.....
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 70.hrs
N327CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
albertakolbmk3 wrote:
> Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand etc.
on MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they are spaced
so close together and sometimes get in the way.
Know how you feel. Rigged up a different variation of hand brake levers for the
MKIII, you actuate them by pushing straight down with the left hand. Sounds odd,
works good, and after you do it once or twice, it becomes very intuitive.
Just have to be careful when fastening the seat belt, if you aren't paying attention,
you can loop the belt over them. (Hmmm... Wonder why it takes full power
to taxi?)
Here are the pictures.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg4.htm
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265982#265982
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
Toe brakes on MK111c and like them , they work great , although I have
to admit I would use them more for ground maneuvering mostly ,long grass
runways don't need a lot of braking.
Downunder
MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Cottrell
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Heel brakes or ???
I don't have a Mark III, but I do have a Firestar if that counts. I
did have a Mark III with heel brakes, and I didn't like them. I have
tried toe brakes on a 150, didn't like that either. I used to have one
hand brake on the Firestar and changed it to two individual hand brakes
on the stick. I like that a lot. I had to make a "deally bob" to hold
the levers, but it was worth it.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: ces308
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Heel brakes or ???
......I like my toe brakes.....
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 70.hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265963#265963
http://www.matronicp; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
- www.avg.com
10/01/09 18:23:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
My Slingshot has dual caliper Matco brakes. One caliper on each wheel is actuated
with a single hand lever operated master cylinder on the stick for straight
ahead stopping, i.e., non-differential braking. The other caliper on each wheel
is actuated independently from heel operated master cylinders below the rudder
pedals. These are used for tight turning. I use them all for added brake capacity
during run-ups.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266017#266017
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
Hyd. heel brakes on my firestar 2. They work really good , but I HATE
them . they are difficult
to use & I don"t trust myself to be able to them use correctly if a
bad situation develops. I'm
not confortable with them even after 100 hrs of flight time and who
knows how many landings.
On Oct 1, 2009, at 6:58 PM, albertakolbmk3 wrote:
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
Brownsville , TX
> >
>
> Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel,
> hand etc. on MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I
> find that they are spaced so close together and sometimes get in the
> way.
>
> --------
> Kolb MKIII C
> Rotax 582
> C Gearbox 3.00:1
> WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265944#265944
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com> |
Interesting... seems most have heel brakes and they don't like them either. I find
mine work really well and that is where the problem lies. A few times after
just touching down I accidentally hit one and veered me to that side of the
runway. A little scary when your not expecting it. Anyone have pictures of their
toe brake setup?
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266032#266032
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
As a newcomer to the list , I've not had the privilge to meet or
comunicate with most of you.
Most of the [oldtimers] seem to know a lot about each other. I;m
interested in knowing
more about the people that fly kolb's and then make the posts that I
read every morning.
It would help me , and I'm sure , other newcomers, if occasionaly when
you sign off you would
state what city & state you are in. Thanks
Frank Goodnight
firestar
Brownsville , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Cherie,
Heel brakes.They are,they do,but you get used to them.
?G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: albertakolbmk3 <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 7:58 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Heel brakes or ???
Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand etc. on
MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they are spaced
so close together and sometimes get in the way.
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265944#265944
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Pictures of Middlefield: |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Thom,
?At one time I took some detailed photos of the fairing and mountings.I can't remember
if I sent them to the list or another person back copy.Have you seen them?
? G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 8:31 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fwd: Pictures of Middlefield:
Gary,
Great photos of your Kolb, and I can see your VGs very well but can't measure
their location in the photo :-).
Mine are located with the top most part of the VG (aft end) at 6.5" aft of the
leading edge as measured parallel to the lower surface of the wing. This means
the aft end of the VG is 8.5" from the center of the leading edge tube as
measured along the upper surface of the wing with a flexible tape.
I sure like your Jabiru engine fairing.... how much you want for it? If you
don't want to sell it, maybe some day if you take your airplane out of service
for a couple weeks, I can borrow it from you to copy.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265831#265831
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: where are you? |
| From: | "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com> |
Frank,
If you join the Kolb forum list here, the names of people and where they live are
shown when they make a post if they fill in the information about themselves.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=5
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
970 hours
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266073#266073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
Toe brakes are the standard in the aviation world, from th smallest to the biggest
planes. Toe brakes are not complicated or hard to make, it just seems that
ultralight designers like to take shortcuts on this item. Reversing the brakes
with the rudder pedals is just a setup for disaster, as albertakolbMKIII
just pointed out with his experience. I have toe brakes, they don't weigh any
more than a heel brake setup, the my Kolb has standard controls just like every
other plane in the world. Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its
a design shortcut and substandard.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266075#266075
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbtoebrakes_152.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
At 11:58 AM 10/2/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
I don't agree at all; heel brakes aren't substandard, just a different
(earlier) standard.
Like probably most on this list, I learned to fly with toe brakes (in a
C-150). When I bought my first plane, a 1941 Taylorcraft, it had heel
brakes. Took a short while to get used to, but I soon came to prefer
it. One disadvantage of toe brakes is that it's easy to inadvertently
apply brake when using the rudder.
One difference on my T-Craft is that the heel brakes were to the _outside_
of the rudder pedals, rather than to the inside as in my UltraStar. I
haven't made up my mind which is better... it's been so long since I flew
the T-Craft the UltraStar didn't feel awkward.
I didn't care for the hand brake on the Quicksilver I was flying for
awhile, but that _was_ a design shortcut, using bicycle components... and
pretty anemic to boot.
Thousands of production aircraft have been built with both heel and hand
brakes.
-Dana
--
Remember when a trojan was a warrior?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
JetPilot wrote:
> .............my Kolb has standard controls just like every other plane in the
world.
Maybe most..... certainly many, but hardly "every other plane in the world."
JetPilot wrote:
> .............Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut
and substandard.
>
> Mike
But may be a necessity. I know the original question related to MKIII's, but
those of us Kolb flyers with smaller nose cones (e.g. Firestars, Fireflys and
some Ultrastars), and who have big feet, generally don't have much choice .
Operating the rudder pedals with size 14 shoes in that small space is sometimes
enough of a challenge. A design to incorporate toe brakes would be more of
an accomodation than I think would be worth it in my case. Work hard to avoid
situations where brakes are critical. Can't always do that, but as some would
say... "you pays your money and takes your chances".
As Beauford says..... worth what you paid fer it.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266093#266093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
The Aeronca Chief had a dandy heel brake design, little levers at the
bottom of the rudder pedals and cable operated.
-foolproof except when the cables froze with ice in the fairleads on
the bottom of the gearlegs.
You could turn and brake at your need.
The Champs had an awkward pedal sticking out of the floor.
My MkIII has what I thought at the time I was creating it, a
brilliant design. Throttle handle actuated.
I reinforced the throttle bar and had a rod actuate a Girling (copy)
master cylinder. There is a little concealed reliever
spring built into the throttle cable at the carb so it will back up
from closed throttle.
I also put a brake lock in the line so I could do a runup.
Ignorant at the time of the leverage required, the output is puny and
I have to pull fairly hard to get much to happen.
I haven't retrofitted it because I fly off of grass.
Eventually.
BB
wet and overcast Scottsville, NY
On 2, Oct 2009, at 2:06 PM, George Alexander wrote:
>
>
>
> JetPilot wrote:
>> .............my Kolb has standard controls just like every other
>> plane in the world.
>
>
> Maybe most..... certainly many, but hardly "every other plane in
> the world."
>
>
> JetPilot wrote:
>> .............Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a
>> design shortcut and substandard.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> But may be a necessity. I know the original question related to
> MKIII's, but those of us Kolb flyers with smaller nose cones (e.g.
> Firestars, Fireflys and some Ultrastars), and who have big feet,
> generally don't have much choice . Operating the rudder pedals
> with size 14 shoes in that small space is sometimes enough of a
> challenge. A design to incorporate toe brakes would be more of an
> accomodation than I think would be worth it in my case. Work hard
> to avoid situations where brakes are critical. Can't always do
> that, but as some would say... "you pays your money and takes your
> chances".
>
> As Beauford says..... worth what you paid fer it.
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266093#266093
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
Been flying the FireFly with home made band brakes activated by a single
lever on the stick. Up to this point, I have not found any need for
separate wheel braking. I fly off from and to hard surface runways almost
100%.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
Just wondering what most people are using for brake levers... heel, hand
etc. on MKIII. I have heel brakes but have mixed feelings. I find that they
are spaced so close together and sometimes get in the way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
my heal brakes are close as well,,,, love them.
Boyd Young
Kolb MKIIIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> |
It makes no difference what a Aeronca , Taylorcraft, or a few small manufacturers
may have done 60 years ago, the standard has long since been decided...
The first motorcycles used to have a reverse clutch that had to be constantly squeezed
to engage the motor, we have since learned that it was a horrible idea
and we now have a world standard that is the opposite.
Same goes for some old airplanes, lots of things have been tried over the decades
in airplanes, big deal... We now have a standard of toe brakes, and for very
good reasons. Just because something may have been used 60 years ago or
even on a very few odd planes, it still does not change the fact that heel brakes,
levers, strings, or what every crazy design some people have come up with
are a substandard shortcut.
There will alway be a few that say " it works for me " and accept anything, as
we have seen on past discussions of Fuel Filters, and other things. When possible
I believe in making my Kolb to accepted Aircraft standards, It's not always
possible but I do it where I can, and toe brakes is one that can be easily
done on the MK III. Smaller ultralights and the Firefly may be more difficult,
each person will have to decide for themselves.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266112#266112
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when I first was building the mkIII I called and asked Dennis Souder and
addressed my concerns. his response was to give them a chance and they
would grow on you. they have, and I am very comfortable with them.
a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging... that does not
infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard, just
different.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City, Ut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when I first was building the mkIII I called and asked Dennis Souder and
addressed my concerns. his response was to give them a chance and they
would grow on you. they have, and I am very comfortable with them.
a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging... that does not
infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard, just
different.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City, Ut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when I first was building the mkIII I called and asked Dennis Souder and
addressed my concerns. his response was to give them a chance and they
would grow on you. they have, and I am very comfortable with them.
a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging... that does not
infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard, just
different.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIII
Brigham City, Ut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when I first was building the mkIII I called and asked Dennis Souder and
addressed my concerns. his response was to give them a chance and they
would grow on you. they have, and I am very comfortable with them.
a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging... that does not
infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard, just
different.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City, Ut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
>...Heel brakes and hand levers can work, but its a design shortcut and
>substandard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when I first was building the mkIII I called and asked Dennis Souder and
addressed my concerns. his response was to give them a chance and they
would grow on you. they have, and I am very comfortable with them.
a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging... that does not
infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard, just
different.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City, Ut.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
I tried to contact powerfin props today to get some leading edge
material so I might rain
proof my prop. All phone numbers have been disconected. after checking
the web
[to the best of my ability-wich is not very good] it appears they are
in the process of going out of
business. Hope no one gets burnt. A shame, I really like my powerfin
prop.
Frank Goodnight
firestar
Brownsville , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | "Jim ODay" <jimoday(at)hotmail.com> |
Burt Rutan did not get locked into a world of conforming to what is accepted as
standard. Either did Homer Kolb.
I still read the Kolb List even though my FS has a new owner.
Fly safe all,
Jim
--------
Jim O'Day
Fargo, ND
Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266137#266137
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fs_brakes_119.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
At 04:32 PM 10/2/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>...Just because something may have been used 60 years ago or even on a
>very few odd planes, it still does not change the fact that heel brakes,
>levers, strings, or what every crazy design some people have come up with
>are a substandard shortcut...
Just because YOU don't like something, Mike, doesn't make it
substandard. The vast majority of all production planes today have
nosewheels. closed cockpits, and wheel controls. That doesn't mean that
tailwheels, open cockpits, and control sticks are "substandard". It's a
matter of preference... and sometimes simplicity is better.
-Dana (who PREFERS taildraggers with open cockpits, control sticks, and
heel brakes)
--
To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heel brakes or ??? |
| From: | zeprep251(at)aol.com |
Jim,
Are you grounded or flying another brand?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim ODay <jimoday(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2009 5:57 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Heel brakes or ???
September 14, 2009 - October 02, 2009
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-iw