Powerglider,
A couple more picts
G.Aman MK-3C over 9000 miles trailering the plane with wings folded with
no damage.
-----Original Message-----
From:
powerglider <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Sent: Fri, Oct 23, 2009 10:00 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing?
great looking planes guys! Nice trailer.
The plane my girlfriend bought has not had its' wings folded in a long tim
e and
we didn't do it when we were there. From the pictures it looks like the wi
ngs
when folded might end up longer than the tail.
So is this the case? Or it the longest part of the plane when wings are fo
lded
still the tail sections? I just don't want to have the previous owner meas
ure
the plane length to within an inch or two only to find out that when the
wings
fold it adds more length to the overall sizing.
Is there a difference in length between the MK3c and MK3X?
For width of the trailer I have 94 and 3/4", height will be 8 feet.
The reason I need to have the most exact length is that right now the trai
ler
bed is 23 feet and 4 inches long, all I have to work with to extend the de
ck and
then enclose it is the triangular front part of the trailer frame that I
would
then need to deck. If I build a little nose "dog house" to extend the leng
th I
currently have it could work but might look pretty ugly, I don't like ugly
.
Maybe make a triangle looking nose area? Light cut down on the wind resist
ance
but framing it out is a bit more work on the roof part.
I appreciate the response, please keep them coming!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p&9053#269053
========================
===========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
========================
===========
ttp://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
From:
"powerglider" <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
OK, didn't explain right the first time.
She's taking lessons on another field and probably will fly out of a longer field
in 2010 as well. I agree 100%, go for a nice long field for at least 1 season,
then as many more as it takes to feel comfortable.
I'm starting the field now since I thought it would take at least 1 full season
and probably 2 to make the runways flat enough and the grass at least reasonable.
Right now it's left over soy bean field. Next year it will be corn so I would
rather begin the runways this year since it's starting fairly flat to begin
with.
Just wondering if 500 feet will be enough after 1 season of flying? 600 feet by
60 feet is 1 acre, just trying to not take away any acreage from a good producing
black Iowa soil, but safety will be more important than an extra acre or
two of corn, Iowa won't miss 120 bushels or so of corn too much.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269081#269081
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
PowerGlider,
One thing to watch out for when flying the Kolb is that is looses speed MUCH faster
than any other plane you have ever flown when you pull the power. Most people
that have GA experience start to pull the power at 50 feet or so, and expect
the plane to keep flying. If you do this on approach, you will not believe
how fast you will stall and crash. The Kolb is pretty easy to fly, but this
is the one mistake every new pilot to this type of plane makes. Also, power
off glide is very bad, be prepared to point the nose WAY down when you do pull
the power off, its nothing like just lowering the nose in a Cessna or piper.
Take the time to get training in your Kolb , if you wreck your plane due to
lack of training, you wont be flying anyways, so just wait for the training.
500 feet is not long enough to safely fly a Kolb out of on a REGULAR basis...
500 feet can be done under perfect conditions when you are at the top of your
game, but you will not be able to do this every time. If you base your Kolb
at the airport you describe, you will end up in the corn sooner or later, guaranteed.
If it happens on takeoff, it will be really bad... I would make a single
runway 1000 feet long, that is doable once you have experience IF there
are no obstructions at each end if you have a Rotax 912-S. If its a 582, I do
not think 1000 feet will be enough to operate out of.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269092#269092
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
From:
"powerglider" <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
jetpilot,
I will have her read all this.
I'm not the one flying the Kolb, don't plan on it, I enjoy flying my paramotors
and it's enough flying for me. I might join her as a passenger when she is trained,
confident and ready, but I'm not in a hurry to take the passenger seat,
I fly all the time in my paramotors and it gives me plenty of satisfaction.
Wow, 1000 feet! OK, I think we have that.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269097#269097
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing?
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
I was thinking even a two, three, or four day flight is cheaper and a
lot less hassle than trying to build a trailer. Also, much easier on
the airplane. Trailering is tough on airplanes.
john h
mkIII
Allowing for a 70 to 80 mile an hour cruising speed and time for a
pit stop it's a fair estimate for a one day flight.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
I'm thinking about the runways we need to start preparing for.>>
Runways? I don`t know anyone who operates from a runway. Ithought grass
strips was what our flying was all about. A big field so that you can land
and take off in any direction is a lot more useful and even that is not
strictly necessary
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
> Just wondering if 500 feet will be enough after 1 season of flying? 600
feet by 60 feet is 1 acre, just trying to not take away any acreage from a
good producing black Iowa soil, but safety will be more important than an
extra acre or two of corn, Iowa won't miss 120 bushels or so of corn too
much.
I have been flying off 750 feet in a cow pasture for 25 years. Even that
looks short after flying out of 3 and 4 thousand foot strips for a while.
60 feet is wide enough for me. The mkIII is 30 feet wide. Gives 15 feet on
each side.
I don't know how well your girl friend will fly. She may need a wider and
longer strip.
Do you have a name?
john h
mkIII
Marysvale, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Crash Photos
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Only one time he mentioned that someone had squawked about me flying
"over their house">>
Hi Robert,
until recently microlights have been constrained by the usual `not
closer to any building or large group of people and being able to glide
clear`` stuff but this has been relaxed and we can now fly over
villages and towns under the same rules as `normal` light aircraft. LOW?
you had better be landing or taking off.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
1200' is plenty, especially if there are holes at the ends.
The sumac on this end is tall enough to keep me steep so's not to
scare the folks on I-90
BB MkIII, 28' wings
DSCN1664.JPG
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Subject:
Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing?
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
John, I agree, all it takes is one good pot hole to do serious damage. Even
tar strips in the road can do mischief if the plane isn't well padded. I was
thinking of a time constraint like a single weekend to accomplish the move.
Rick
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> I was thinking even a two, three, or four day flight is cheaper and a lot
> less hassle than trying to build a trailer. Also, much easier on the
> airplane. Trailering is tough on airplanes.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
> Allowing for a 70 to 80 mile an hour cruising speed and time for a pit
> stop it's a fair estimate for a one day flight.
>
> Rick
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
At 12:08 PM 10/23/2009, powerglider wrote:
>I'm not the one flying the Kolb, don't plan on it, I enjoy flying my
>paramotors and it's enough flying for me. I might join her as a passenger
>when she is trained, confident and ready, but I'm not in a hurry to take
>the passenger seat, I fly all the time in my paramotors and it gives me
>plenty of satisfaction.
>
>Wow, 1000 feet! OK, I think we have that.
I'm with Mike on this one, a single 1000' strip takes the same acerage as
two 500' strips and a Kolb handles a crosswind far better than a
PPG. Plus, part of the fun of a private strip is having friends drop in
and 1000' makes that a lot easier.
No reason you can't fly both PPG and a Kolb, several of us in CT do... do I
know you from the PPG list?
-Dana
--
We have enough youth; how about a Fountain of Smart?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing?
From:
"powerglider" <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
previous owner has the hangar paid for until Jan 1, he's only 2 hours drive away.
He came to bring the flat trailer so we could start on it. While he was here
he inspected the bean field and said he could land on it as is. He said he was
willing to fly the plane here and another pilot at the same airport was going
to follow him in another plane to land on the bean field and take off again
brining him home.
But that was before the 4-5 days of shitty weather moved in let's see... about
4-5 days ago, and it looks from the forecast that we aren't going to have a 3-4
day break to dry things up (the mud in the bean field) for at least another
week.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269117#269117
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
From:
"powerglider" <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Sorry about that, yes my name is Francesco De Santis. My girlfriend's name is Dawn
Shaffer.
I'm new to the area as we moved here from Florida where I haven't seen snow in
15 years, well saw some 2 saturday's ago!
I was just thinking it would be easier to make a new "grass strip" that is larger/longer
and perhaps take some off if it's too much than to try and make one
too small and then make it larger/longer.
John Hauck wrote:
> > Just wondering if 500 feet will be enough after 1 season of flying? 600
> feet by 60 feet is 1 acre, just trying to not take away any acreage from a
> good producing black Iowa soil, but safety will be more important than an
> extra acre or two of corn, Iowa won't miss 120 bushels or so of corn too
> much.
>
>
> I have been flying off 750 feet in a cow pasture for 25 years. Even that
> looks short after flying out of 3 and 4 thousand foot strips for a while.
> 60 feet is wide enough for me. The mkIII is 30 feet wide. Gives 15 feet on
> each side.
>
> I don't know how well your girl friend will fly. She may need a wider and
> longer strip.
>
> Do you have a name?
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Marysvale, UT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269121#269121
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
From:
gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject:
Re: Rotax 503 Running Rough
Update on the 503. I took everything apart again, tweaked the timing, put i
n 2 new resistor plugs, and it runs like new. I'm not sure what the issue w
as, but I suspect it may have been a condenser. I now have good timing, new
points, condensers, and plugs. I did reseat the wires on the coils, which
could have been an issue also. Now, I just need some nice flying weather. I
did a quick flight today just to check out the engine, but it was windy an
d bumpy.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 7:38:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax 503 Running Rough
I am looking for some help figuring out whats wrong with my SCSI 503. A cou
ple of weeks ago I noticed a miss at higher RPMs (5000 and above), It quick
ly got worse and then began missing at lower RPMs as well. I changed plugs
(resistor type), even though the ones that I was running only had 6 hours o
n them. Same results. I tried non-resistor plugs, same results. I tried rai
sing and lowering the carburetor needle which only made things worse. I rea
djusted the timing from 0.072 to 0.086 inches BTDC. Same results. I removed
the shielding around the sparkplug wires. Same results. I changed points a
nd condensers, and may have goofed up the timing, because now it runs terri
ble! I'm not sure what I'm chasing here! Another thing that puzzles me, and
might be a clue, has to due with the kill switch and behavior of the point
s. Let me explain. When setting the points on the right, the continuity lig
ht connected across the points dims noticably as the points open, regardles
s of kill switch position. The points on the left only dim when the kill sw
itch is in the run position. With the switch on the off position there is b
arely a perceptable flicker as the points open and close. I'm wondering why
the behavoir of the points would be different.
The engine was running fine all year long and I've logged several multi-hou
r flights over the summer without a problem. It has less than 2 years and 6
0 hours on new plug wires and suppression caps. Have any of you guys been d
own this road? Any thoughts?
Malcolm Morrison
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: law suit after selling plane?
At 04:08 PM 10/23/2009, b young wrote:
>...or better yet, sell it to both, and have both sign
>the forms.
That may be the best idea yet... only, if the wife is the kind that would
be willing to sign, she's not the kind who'd sue anyway...
-Dana
--
Have you any idea how successful censorship is on TV? Don't know the
answer? Hm. Successful. Isn't it?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
At 01:24 PM 10/23/2009, powerglider wrote:
>
>Sorry about that, yes my name is Francesco De Santis. My girlfriend's name
>is Dawn Shaffer.
Ah HA!
Small world eh Check? But then aviation always is...
Stan Kasica's flying his Kolb more than his PPG nowadays, as am I... not
that either of us will ever give up PPG...
-Dana
--
Have you any idea how successful censorship is on TV? Don't know the
answer? Hm. Successful. Isn't it?
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: law suit after selling plane?
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
The lawyer utterance...Herb
Gotcha.. Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Minimum Grass Strip Length???
From:
"albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Hi,
Just wondering what a comfortable length is for a grass strip with only a 4' high
fence to clear on either end? I think I have about 1500' fence to fence. Keep
in mind I just got my license and have been flying off of a 5000' runway. I
was thinking of putting markers on our grass strip just to see how long 1500'
is when your coming in to land. I'll force myself to land as short as possible.
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269196#269196
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Hi again,
Anyone have some good ideas for a cheap hangar just to keep snow and the likes
off of the kolb?
--------
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269197#269197
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Do they have those cheap steel carports in Canada? They're pretty thin
corrugated so I don't know how they'd do for snow loads, I don know that
they stand up to 70 mph winds. Not bad for a structure that's nailed to the
ground. If you folded the wings for the winter you could get by with a
single car size and extend the length for just a bit more money. There was
an article in EAA's Light Sport Magazine about a fellow who made a footing
to extend the height and used it for his trike.
I had a buddy who bought one of the silver tarp portable carports and it was
rotten inside of two years.
Rick
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:05 PM, albertakolbmk3
wrote:
> cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
>
> Hi again,
>
> Anyone have some good ideas for a cheap hangar just to keep snow and the
> likes off of the kolb?
>
> --------
> Kolb MKIII C
> Rotax 582
> C Gearbox 3.00:1
> WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269197#269197
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Minimum Grass Strip Length???
From:
"John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>
Date:
Oct 23, 2009
Been there, done this!
I fly out of my strip, Nauga Field, which is 1550 ft. It has tall trees and power
lines both ends.
The first time I approached it, I turned around and went back to my long 2500 ft
base strip. It just visually looked way too short. That was because I was
used to flying off 2500 to 6000 ft runways.
I did just what you suggested. I marked off the longer grass strip with flagging.
I marked the obstacles and middle of the runway. It turned out to be easy.
It was just what you are used to looking at. Once you mark the distances,
and do some practicing with that, you should have a firm understanding of what
you and your Kolb are capable of.
The only real key for me is that I make a go, no-go decision as I cross the obstacles.
If I'm not at the right position and right speed it is go-around time.
Ten MPH too fast will eat up a lot of runway. The shorter field leaves little
room to "adjust". Too late to make a decision in the flare.
It will force you to be better at controlling approach airspeed to a greater degree.
Practice a lot of approaches only, just nail the airspeed. It will also
build your confidence and capabilities. Will come in handy, in the event
of an emergency.
Just take it slow and build up to it. Practice, practice, practice on the longer
field, marked. The plane is capable. You will know when you are capable.
Be careful, just had a thread lately with someone getting too slow on approach.
Never good.
Hope this helps.
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that
I have the greatest respect for.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269202#269202
________________________________________________________________________________
Oops, My bad. Tried to attach a picture, but it did not work.
Malcolm Morrison
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Fredrick Kerfoot <fredkt46(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Cheap hanger ideas
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
If you don't mind folding the wings=2C you can get a used 40' Sea/Land con
tainer. They are strong=2C very secure=2C excellent protection from the wea
ther (anything short of tornado) lots of extra storage (40') and relatively
inexpensive. In Florida you can find a good used weather-tight container
for less than $2000 US. If you don't want to fold the wings you might want
to consider a pole shed.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4697457_build-pole-shed.html
FredK
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:
WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
albertakolbmk3,
I respectfully request that you edit your signature, which includes lots of information
about your airplane, to include your name.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269216#269216
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
Fredrick Kerfoot wrote:
>
> If you don't mind folding the wings, you can get a used 40' Sea/Land
> container. They are strong, very secure, excellent protection from the
> weather (anything short of tornado) lots of extra storage (40') and
> relatively inexpensive. In Florida you can find a good used
> weather-tight container for less than $2000 US. If you don't want to
> fold the wings you might want to consider a pole shed.
>
> http://www.ehow.com/how_4697457_build-pole-shed.html
> <http://www.ehow.com/how_4697457_build-pole-shed.html>
>
> FredK
I'd 2nd that idea, with a minor mod to the technique. If you design with
a 'single pitch' roof, you can do it with 4x4 or 6x6 posts and steel
purlins, used to build metal buildings. The purlins can be purchased to
span amazing distances. Set 2 rows of posts at whatever width you need
for the plane, with the post spacing determined by spacing requirements
of the purlins you buy (typically around 4-5 feet). Make the 2 posts at
the entry end the tallest, and the posts at the back the shortest; your
choice of pitch. Pull a line along the posts at the chosen pitch angle,
mark the tops at that angle & cut the tops. Using 'Z' channel purlins
allows you to sit the purlin on the cut top of the post at the correct
angle. Cut wood wedges to fill the gaps between the purlin's 'web' and
the post, or just trim the high side of the posts at the right angle if
you're using 6x6 posts. Lay metal roofing on the purlins & go to work
with the screw gun.
Shelter done.
I added a 30x50 lean-to addition to my hangar using a similar technique
& built the entire structure totally alone. The 30' purlins were light
enough for me to lift one end & carry it up the ladder to set in its
hanger on one end, then lift the other end to the top of its post. The
32' pieces of roofing were placed on an over-extended extension ladder
going from the ground to the eave, then dragged/pushed onto the roof.
The work would have gone 3 or 4 times faster with a helper, but the
point is, a helper isn't absolutely required.
The benefit of the single pitch roof is that all the water runs to the
back, meaning you won't need a gutter on the front to keep water away at
the entrance. (Simpler to build, too.)
BTW, isn't it amazing how many new and unexpected things you can learn
when you visit a new web site? I've always wanted to 'learn to pole
dance at home'....
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Any Kolb instructors close to Burlington Iowa?
From:
"powerglider" <francesco(at)powerglider.biz>
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
Hi Dana,
I keep flying my paramotors, it's Dawn that bought the Kolb and wants to expand
her flying activities to include a faster and different style of flying.
I just never get tired of soaring, I want to spend more time this coming summer
in the sand dunes along the Michigan shoreline and paraglide without the motor.
I think it's best to come join the other threads, since this one is kind of a repeat
of the other two I started.
I'm in charge of the logistics of setting and maintaining the grass strips and
modifying the barn to become a hangar for the Kolb Mark 3 Dawn bought, those are
the new challenges.
I have a nice machine shop set up here on the farm, Haas TM-1P milling center is
the centerpiece, a few manual lathes to work the turning parts, looking to aquire
a cnc lathe in the next 18 months and a nice press brake (I had to leave
my Diacro press brake behind in Florida as I had already loaded 2 semi trailers
to bring to Iowa and couldn't justify a 3rd).
CHeck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269224#269224
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
The airport where I keep my Slingshot does not allow privately built hangars since
hangar rent is a big part of their revenue, at $250/mo rent and they are full
with a waiting list. However, on the end of each row of T-hangars is a 1/2
T-hangar space with a wide roll up garage type door. Some of these are used for
storage of ground maintenance equipment including snow plows etc.
I am renting one of the unused 1/2 T-hangar spaces and store my Slingshot in it
during the winter and tie-down outside during the summer flying season. I would
probably fold the wings after every flight and store it in the 1/2 T if it
did not require muffler removal. My A&P I/A partner and I
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
store our tools and equipment there and do a small amount of maintenance and inspection
work on airplanes there which pays for our shop and my winter storage
space at $100/mo. It is not ideal but it is cheap enough with the bit of revenue
we get.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269225#269225
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
At 10:54 AM 10/24/2009, Thom Riddle wrote:
>...on the end of each row of T-hangars is a 1/2 T-hangar space with a wide
>roll up garage type door. Some of these are used for storage of ground
>maintenance equipment including snow plows etc.
>
>I am renting one of the unused 1/2 T-hangar spaces and store my Slingshot
>in it during the winter and tie-down outside during the summer flying
>season. I would probably fold the wings after every flight and store it in
>the 1/2 T if it did not require muffler removal...
Couldn't you fit it in the 1/2 T by folding only one wing? Of course it
depends on which half of the T you have...
At our airport there's a Firestar (folded) and a gyrocopter sharing a 1/2 T.
-Dana
--
The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
Dana,
Yes I could fold just the left wing but would still have to remove the muffler
to do that. It has two springs (like Rotax exhaust) per cylinder and safety wire
securing each spring. Too much work for folding after every flight. If it were
not for the need to safety the springs, the muffler removal would probably
not be too onerous, but 8 safety wires is more than I'm willing to do every time
I want to fly. I have an adequate cover for the canopy and engine but will
be making a new and better one this winter.
While on this subject of tie-down outside... someone this list has commented that
the Jabiru engines are prone to hard starting in humid conditions, at least
the one(s) he was familiar with. It is not particularly humid here in Buffalo
during the summer except when it rains. Once this summer, my first attempts at
an engine cover failed during a rain storm and the engine was out in the rain
over night. It was drenched when I arrived at the airport the next morning.
It cranked right up with no problems.
Perhaps the Jabiru that someone commented about was a very early model or perhaps
the spark gaps (plugs and coils) were not set properly, or their distributer
caps were not sealing properly. I can't say but can say without equivocation
that I've not had any starting problems on my Jabiru 2200A (#1574) in any conditions,
including those just described.... discounting the time I left the master
switch on overnight :-).
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269232#269232
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
albertakolbmk3 wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> Anyone have some good ideas for a cheap hangar just to keep snow and the likes
off of the kolb?
Here is a page showing how I built my hangar back in the 80's, we added another
one just like it alongside a couple years back for Ed's FSII. It cost $1800 to
build 25 years ago, Ed's recent one cost about $3200.
We use a roll up and roll down tarp across the front.
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Hangar.html
One correction to the article on that page, what took 4 days 25 years ago takes
2 weeks after you pass age 60...
I can post more pictures if you want.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269234#269234
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 24, 2009
From:
jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
There a way of interlocking the springs using small dia. aircraft
cable where it can be quickly removed and taken out. Think about how
you would do it.
jerb
At 08:30 AM 10/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>Dana,
>
>Yes I could fold just the left wing but would still have to remove
>the muffler to do that. It has two springs (like Rotax exhaust) per
>cylinder and safety wire securing each spring. Too much work for
>folding after every flight. If it were not for the need to safety
>the springs, the muffler removal would probably not be too onerous,
>but 8 safety wires is more than I'm willing to do every time I want
>to fly. I have an adequate cover for the canopy and engine but will
>be making a new and better one this winter.
>
>While on this subject of tie-down outside... someone this list has
>commented that the Jabiru engines are prone to hard starting in
>humid conditions, at least the one(s) he was familiar with. It is
>not particularly humid here in Buffalo during the summer except when
>it rains. Once this summer, my first attempts at an engine cover
>failed during a rain storm and the engine was out in the rain over
>night. It was drenched when I arrived at the airport the next
>morning. It cranked right up with no problems.
>
>Perhaps the Jabiru that someone commented about was a very early
>model or perhaps the spark gaps (plugs and coils) were not set
>properly, or their distributer caps were not sealing properly. I
>can't say but can say without equivocation that I've not had any
>starting problems on my Jabiru 2200A (#1574) in any conditions,
>including those just described.... discounting the time I left the
>master switch on overnight :-).
>
>--------
>Thom Riddle
>Buffalo, NY
>Kolb Slingshot SS-021
>Jabiru 2200A #1574
>Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
>A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from
>a simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269232#269232
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Saturday flight
From:
"Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
Kolbers,
I had a great day of flying the Firestar on Saturday. We had 75 deg., clear skys,
& light winds and I departed Bailes Field at 11 AM. I ended up in Brenham TX
around 2 PM, got some lunch, and came out to find either some admirers or critics
fondeling my plane. I get nervous when I see people actually touching my
plane. I topped off the tanks and headed home, and had covered 295 miles with
5.3 hrs on the engine when the day was done.
I have found the HKS likes to run at about 5200-5300 rpm. At that setting the plane
stays pretty well perfectly trimmed out and cruises about 58 mph. I've got
55 hrs on it to date, and so far it's been trouble free and a good performer.
--------
Jimmy Young
Houston, TX
FS II, HKS 700
N7043P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269321#269321
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0517_142.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
Hi Richard ,
Thanks for the photos of the mods to your firestar. I'm especialy
interested in the PVC
fuel tanks. I,m planing to fly to M.V. this spring and some of the
legs in west Texas are
longer than my fuel supply. I had thought about strapping on a 5
gallon jug, and landing
someplace to pour it into my mains, but I like your idea better. My
concern is with the glue
and fuel with alcohol. Did you use the pvc cement that you can buy at
home depot & have
you had any problems? Thanks for any info you may be able to provide me.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
Brownsville Tx
On Oct 24, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> albertakolbmk3 wrote:
>> Hi again,
>>
>> Anyone have some good ideas for a cheap hangar just to keep snow
>> and the likes off of the kolb?
>
>
> Here is a page showing how I built my hangar back in the 80's, we
> added another one just like it alongside a couple years back for
> Ed's FSII. It cost $1800 to build 25 years ago, Ed's recent one cost
> about $3200.
> We use a roll up and roll down tarp across the front.
> http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Hangar.html
>
> One correction to the article on that page, what took 4 days 25
> years ago takes 2 weeks after you pass age 60...
>
> I can post more pictures if you want.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269234#269234
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
Jerb,
The cable run through all the springs is worthing investigating. I'll do that tomorrow
when I visit my slingshot next.
Rick,
I'll see if Jabiru sells another smaller muffler that might work on the Slingshot.
It appears to me that my muffler is no wider than the engine either but the
wing hinge location on the Slingshot is pretty close together, about 12" on
centers if my eyeball tape measure is not too far off. The existing muffler is
probably closer to 24" wide.
Thanks for your ideas.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269343#269343
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
From:
jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Saturday flight
Hey Jimmy,
What kind of average fuel consumption are you seeing on your bird
running at that cruise power level. And what are you running for a
prop. Just curious.
Interesting you track the miles you have flown. I have a Magellan
315 GPS and one of the features is a trip counter - I couldn't
believe it that in the flying I've done over a short period I had
several thousand miles. Adds up quick.
jerb
At 05:29 AM 10/25/2009, you wrote:
>
>Kolbers,
>
>I had a great day of flying the Firestar on Saturday. We had 75
>deg., clear skys, & light winds and I departed Bailes Field at 11
>AM. I ended up in Brenham TX around 2 PM, got some lunch, and came
>out to find either some admirers or critics fondeling my plane. I
>get nervous when I see people actually touching my plane. I topped
>off the tanks and headed home, and had covered 295 miles with 5.3
>hrs on the engine when the day was done.
>
>I have found the HKS likes to run at about 5200-5300 rpm. At that
>setting the plane stays pretty well perfectly trimmed out and
>cruises about 58 mph. I've got 55 hrs on it to date, and so far it's
>been trouble free and a good performer.
>
>--------
>Jimmy Young
>Houston, TX
>FS II, HKS 700
>N7043P
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269321#269321
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0517_142.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
From:
Brad Zearfoss <brad(at)mykcwireless.com>
Subject:
Matco Brake Problem
I recently bought a Kolb Mark III Classic. It has Matco hydraulic
brakes with toe pedals - the MC-4 master cylinders and the B4 calipers.
Differential, pilot side only. I have a problem with having zero
stopping power. No amount of pressure on the toe pedals will stop the
plane, even at slow taxi speed. It's as if the calipers are not
squeezing the rotors hard enough. Here's what I've done so far -
replaced the master cylinders (brand new), bled the lines, and checked
the toe pedal geometry. I can see the calipers moving when I push on
the pedals, so they're not completely frozen. An A&P looked at it too,
and he's stumped. One thing that's unusual is that the pistons are
really stiff on the master cylinders, and hardly have any travel. It's
really hard to push them down, even with a hand, and I know that's not
normal. Definitely not mushy like when there's air in the lines. I'm
using the red automatic transmission fluid, which I've read is okay.
Has anybody encountered a similar problem with their brakes, and what
did you do about it? I haven't been able to fly my plane yet because of
this, so I'm hoping that I can find a solution. Short of buying new
calipers, I don't know what else to do. Thanks for any suggestions.
________________________________________________________________________________
Brad
Matco brakes work quite well but take a bunch or pressure to activate them.
The Matco heal brakes that I have work well but take much more pressure than
I would feel comfortable pressing against the rudder cables as you have to
do with the toe activators. It seems like one of our members reworked the
geometry of the toe system to get more hydraulic pressure without stressing
the rudder cables. Note! Matco also makes larger calipers and dual caliper
conversions that might resolve your issues.
It also seems like Dennis Souder (Old Kolb engineer and one time owner) just
talked about this very issue as to why they developed the heal brakes.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Zearfoss" <brad(at)mykcwireless.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Matco Brake Problem
>
> I recently bought a Kolb Mark III Classic. It has Matco hydraulic brakes
> with toe pedals - the MC-4 master cylinders and the B4 calipers.
> Differential, pilot side only. I have a problem with having zero stopping
> power. No amount of pressure on the toe pedals will stop the plane, even
> at slow taxi speed. It's as if the calipers are not squeezing the rotors
> hard enough. Here's what I've done so far - replaced the master cylinders
> (brand new), bled the lines, and checked the toe pedal geometry. I can
> see the calipers moving when I push on the pedals, so they're not
> completely frozen. An A&P looked at it too, and he's stumped. One thing
> that's unusual is that the pistons are really stiff on the master
> cylinders, and hardly have any travel. It's really hard to push them
> down, even with a hand, and I know that's not normal. Definitely not
> mushy like when there's air in the lines. I'm using the red automatic
> transmission fluid, which I've read is okay. Has anybody encountered a
> similar problem with their brakes, and what did you do about it? I haven't
> been able to fly my plane yet because of this, so I'm hoping that I can
> find a solution. Short of buying new calipers, I don't know what else to
> do. Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Saturday flight
From:
"Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
> What kind of average fuel consumption are you seeing on your bird
> running at that cruise power level. And what are you running for a
> prop.
Jerb,
It burns somehwere close to 2 1/2 gph. I've have not done a real acurate check
to date, that's just my best guess. I need to do a long X-country and calculate
the fuel & hrs to have a number that meant anything. My prop is a 2 blade 66"
Powerfin.
--------
Jimmy Young
Houston, TX
FS II, HKS 700
N7043P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269400#269400
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Thumb" <bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
Hi Brad...
I had the same problem kinda but I had Travis make a new set of the toe
pedal to increase the leverage on the master cylinder . Also I called Matco
and they have a new lining that has a lot more stopping power. I had them
send me a new set of the lining and with the new pedals Travis built for me
took care of my break problem. I'm sure Travis has the print I sent him for
the toe peddle.
I will take a couple pictures of the peddles in the morning and send
you. I have a MK1112Xtra912-80hp and the pedals will hold it up to 4500 RPM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Zearfoss" <brad(at)mykcwireless.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Matco Brake Problem
>
> I recently bought a Kolb Mark III Classic. It has Matco hydraulic brakes
> with toe pedals - the MC-4 master cylinders and the B4 calipers.
> Differential, pilot side only. I have a problem with having zero stopping
> power. No amount of pressure on the toe pedals will stop the plane, even
> at slow taxi speed. It's as if the calipers are not squeezing the rotors
> hard enough. Here's what I've done so far - replaced the master cylinders
> (brand new), bled the lines, and checked the toe pedal geometry. I can
> see the calipers moving when I push on the pedals, so they're not
> completely frozen. An A&P looked at it too, and he's stumped. One thing
> that's unusual is that the pistons are really stiff on the master
> cylinders, and hardly have any travel. It's really hard to push them
> down, even with a hand, and I know that's not normal. Definitely not
> mushy like when there's air in the lines. I'm using the red automatic
> transmission fluid, which I've read is okay. Has anybody encountered a
> similar problem with their brakes, and what did you do about it? I haven't
> been able to fly my plane yet because of this, so I'm hoping that I can
> find a solution. Short of buying new calipers, I don't know what else to
> do. Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
It would be interesting to see what you could read on a pressure gauge.
One point to be made is contact area. New pads frequently don't
present enough to give full effect.
If they are working at all, try jacking one axle, applying full pedal
and hand turning the wheel.
If you get some resistance do some taxi with the brakes on to help
wear them in. The rotors on working
brakes will show a track.
BB
On 25, Oct 2009, at 6:38 PM, Brad Zearfoss wrote:
>
> I recently bought a Kolb Mark III Classic. It has Matco hydraulic
> brakes with toe pedals - the MC-4 master cylinders and the B4
> calipers. Differential, pilot side only. I have a problem with
> having zero stopping power. No amount of pressure on the toe pedals
> will stop the plane, even at slow taxi speed. It's as if the
> calipers are not squeezing the rotors hard enough. Here's what I've
> done so far - replaced the master cylinders (brand new), bled the
> lines, and checked the toe pedal geometry. I can see the calipers
> moving when I push on the pedals, so they're not completely frozen.
> An A&P looked at it too, and he's stumped. One thing that's unusual
> is that the pistons are really stiff on the master cylinders, and
> hardly have any travel. It's really hard to push them down, even
> with a hand, and I know that's not normal. Definitely not mushy
> like when there's air in the lines. I'm using the red automatic
> transmission fluid, which I've read is okay. Has anybody
> encountered a similar problem with their brakes, and what did you do
> about it? I haven't been able to fly my plane yet because of this,
> so I'm hoping that I can find a solution. Short of buying new
> calipers, I don't know what else to do. Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Oct 25, 2009
[quote="frank.goodnight(at)att.ne"]Hi Richard ,
Thanks for the photos of the mods to your firestar. I'm especialy
interested in the PVC
fuel tanks. I,m planing to fly to M.V. this spring and some of the
legs in west Texas are
longer than my fuel supply. I had thought about strapping on a 5
gallon jug, and landing
someplace to pour it into my mains, but I like your idea better. My
concern is with the glue
and fuel with alcohol. Did you use the pvc cement that you can buy at
home depot & have
you had any problems? Thanks for any info you may be able to provide me.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
Brownsville Tx
Used the glue that Lowe's sells, no problems in 2 years.
But when I rebuild the airplane, will be trying my hand at building an aluminum
tank and mounting it in the upper area as John does with his MKIII. Ought to
be able to get at least 12 gallons in the FSII, and have storage space underneath
it. If it works out, will have these tanks for sale.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269432#269432
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
My Matco brake documentation says to use 5606 fluid, not ATF fluid. Not sure what
kind of seals and o-rings are in Matco brakes nor if the they are compatible
with ATF. I use 5606 per Matco's spec.
Matco also states that you need 2.5 to 1 mechanical advantage on the actuator.
If your pedal setup does not give you that, the braking power will be diminished
proportionally.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269448#269448
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas/Changed to Fuel Systems
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
> But when I rebuild the airplane, will be trying my hand at building an
aluminum tank and mounting it in the upper area as John does with his MKIII.
Ought to be able to get at least 12 gallons in the FSII, and have storage
space underneath it. If it works out, will have these tanks for sale.
>
> Richard Pike
Richard/Gang:
We ended up with an 18 gal aluminum fuel tank in my original Firestar.
That was our first aluminum tank. Didn't slosh it. It developed a weep in
the my inaccessible place to try and put a band aid on.
Sloshed the mkIII tank and it has never leaked a drop.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
> My Matco brake documentation says to use 5606 fluid, not ATF fluid. Not
> sure what kind of seals and o-rings are in Matco brakes nor if the they
> are compatible with ATF. I use 5606 per Matco's spec.
>
> Thom Riddle
Thom/Gang:
Have used ATF with MATCO brakes since day one, 1992. Since that time have
gone through three different sets of brakes. Each set an improvement on the
previous set. In fact, I'm still using the same quart of ATF I bought for
my new Hegar brakes I installed on the FS in 1989. Works great for me.
However, if MATCO says 5606 for current model brakes, I'd go with that.
john h
mkIII
Las Vegas, Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
From:
Scott Perkins <2scott(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
I just got a call from a guy in a North Atlanta, GA suburb
(Roswell, GA) who has a Kolb Ultrastar in apparently nice
shape as it was hanging in someones hangar for ten or
so years before he recently got it
There is a Cuyuna engine on it but it has no crankshaft
and who knows what else.
I am attaching photos in case anyone is interested.
He was thinking of asking $1500 and wanting my advice.
The paint and covering seems to be in real good condition
( judging from the attached photos and his comments )
I have not actually seen the plane.
I dont really have an idea as to a price without
an engine but anyone who is interested can call
him. Here is is name and number
This plane should have the folding wings as I asked
him to look at the wing connections and he said
there were some swivel attach dohickeys.
Jim Cook
(770)365-9645
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
My Matco brake documentation says to use 5606 fluid, not ATF fluid. Not sure
what kind of seals and o-rings are in Matco brakes nor if the they are
compatible with ATF. I use 5606 per Matco's spec.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The matco paperwork says "o-ring BUNA N " I have only used what is
specified.. not sure if it will be compatible with atf or not.
Boyd Young
________________________________________________________________________________
Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
via pick up tubes
Dear Kolbers,
I wanted to share my experience of a forced landing that I had last weekend
.
I took my Firestar-2 for some take off and landing practice and some flight
around the around the valley. I had gone through a complete preflight, run
up, full tanks of fuel and had three takeoffs and Landing in the pattern.
On my fourth take off I climbed to pattern altitude and as I was turning cr
osswind, I felt a bump and pretty much thought that it was a Thermal below
my wing and continued turning down wind. After my turn, the RPM dropped sud
denly from 6200 to 3200 and a chill ran through my spine. I immediately rea
lized that the engine is going to quit! It ran rough and the RPM was oscill
ating up and down. I wanted the prop to keep spinning and not quit, so I im
mediately got my throttle to idle 2300 RPM and just forced the nose down an
d increased airspeed to 68MPH. I made a quick and short turn to base and th
en final and set myself up for landing. When the prop was spinning with min
imum forward thrust, it felt as If I have thrown a drogue chute out.
I came in nice and made a good three point landing and there was enough po
wer to get me to the taxiway.
I went through a RPM check after parking and as soon as I increased the thr
ottle, I engine completely quit and the prop stood still.
=C2-
I started to trouble shoot and these were my observations:
=C2-
There was no fuel present between the tank pickups to the Diaphragm fuel pu
mp to the carburetor.
The carburetor bowls had almost run dry
=C2-
The was a fuel starvation and hence the engine quit. I started tracing the
fault and had the following possibilities =93 Failure of the fuel pum
p, or failure of the Primer bulb (Check valves) or after discussion with my
friend Roger; it could be an air leak in the line.
=C2-
I replaced my primer bulb with a new marine one, but it did not help. When
I started to pump the primer bulb, it was not pushing the fuel up to the fu
el pump. On further trace, I found that one of the pick up tubes in one of
the tanks had given way.
=C2-
The problem:
I have two fuel tanks (5 gallons) each. I had modified my pick up, such tha
t I passed a short piece of urethane tubing attached to the fitting and the
n inserted a metal pick up tube that extended right to the bottom of the ta
nk and had the entire arrangement safety wired. The blue urethane fuel line
being in continuous contact with fuel, became soft and gave way with time
(2 months only) and the metal pick up dropped to the bottom of the tank in
flight. Since I have tee,ed the two pickups from both the tanks, the failed
pick up started to draw in air and stopped fuel flow, resulting in fuel st
arvation.
=C2-
The improvement:
I modified and reinforced the metal pick by running the =C2=BC=9D ure
thane tube right over it to the end of the tank such that it will never fai
l and provided safety wiring adequately.
=C2-
I also provided a parallel bypass line to the primer bulb with an in line s
hut off valve that I will switch off during priming and start up and turn o
n after start up to bypass the primer bulb. This helps incase the primer bu
lb check valves fail and ensures that there is a constant flow of fuel to t
he engine. It is also recommended in the CPS article. I also ordered for a
new fuel pump even if I have just 60 hours on it. The rebuild time is 100 h
ours per Rotax.
=C2-
My learning=99s that may be helpful to some of you:
I have limited time on the Kolb (35-40 hrs) and am a novice on this airplan
e, but wanted to share the following:
=C2-
A Kolb no doubt climbs like a rocket, but also falls like a rock with out a
ny power. It has a lot of drag and my FS-2 sinks at almost 800 feet/minute.
Keep that altitude for its safety in every way. You get that critical time
to make a decision and go for it.
PractisePractisePractise It helps a lot for prac
ticing those no power landings. In my case I had never practiced a power of
f landing on the Kolb, which I plan to do from now on, but my somehow my pr
ivate pilot training that I had undergone was put to practical test :-)) an
d it helped!
During your prefight, if the primer bulb does not become hard, then you can
be=C2-pretty sure that there is an air leak in the system. I used to alw
ays feel that=C2-=C2-there is nothing significant between the tank and
the primer bulb to the fuel=C2-
pump, but was caught by surprise and understood the flow much better
If you have pick up tubes in your tanks, make it a part of your checklist t
o verify=C2-that it=99s in good shape and will not fail.
=C2-
Thanks for reading through my experience and hope it helps some of you.
=C2-
best regards,
Mahesh Iyer
Phoenix, Oregon
Kolb Firestar 2 =93 Powered by a Rotax 503 DCDI and driven by a three
blade IVO prop
The joy of Flight Nothing comes closer, it=99s a ro
mance for life!=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Cheap hanger ideas
From:
"albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
Thanks for the ideas guys... I especially like the idea of using perlings.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269521#269521
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
miyer2u(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Dear Kolbers,
> I wanted to share my experience of a forced landing that I had last weekend
Did you mean to attach something (a document or link)? If so, it isn't showing.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269529#269529
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
via pick up tubes
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
Mahesh/Gang:
Aha! You are Roger's friend. Excellent! I have heard a lot of good
things about you from Roger.
Glad you did a good forced landing.
Good luck with your FS and fly safely.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
: Kolb-List: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation via pick up tubes
Mahesh Iyer
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
From:
Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Put that in an envelope and send it my way I would spend 1500 to fly one
around the neiborhood
Ellery in Maine
Mk3C N213
582 Blue head E-Box
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Perkins <2scott(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 11:56 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
I just got a call from a guy in a North Atlanta, GA suburb
Roswell, GA) who has a Kolb Ultrastar in apparently nice
hape as it was hanging in someones hangar for ten or
o years before he recently got it
here is a Cuyuna engine on it but it has no crankshaft
nd who knows what else.
I am attaching photos in case anyone is interested.
e was thinking of asking $1500 and wanting my advice.
The paint and covering seems to be in real good condition
judging from the attached photos and his comments )
have not actually seen the plane.
dont really have an idea as to a price without
n engine but anyone who is interested can call
im. Here is is name and number
This plane should have the folding wings as I asked
im to look at the wing connections and he said
here were some swivel attach dohickeys.
Jim Cook
770)365-9645
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dan Walter" <worrybear(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
I have a JLO rockwell 340 which may have a crank and rods for the
cuyuna, you would have to check with ZDE to be sure. If interested
contact me off list.
Dan Walter
Palmyra, PA
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
Put that in an envelope and send it my way I would spend 1500 to fly
one around the neiborhood
Ellery in Maine
Mk3C N213
582 Blue head E-Box
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Perkins <2scott(at)bellsouth.net>
To: KolbUltrastar(at)yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 11:56 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb Ultrastar sale in North Atlanta
I just got a call from a guy in a North Atlanta, GA suburb
(Roswell, GA) who has a Kolb Ultrastar in apparently nice
shape as it was hanging in someones hangar for ten or
so years before he recently got it
There is a Cuyuna engine on it but it has no crankshaft
and who knows what else.
I am attaching photos in case anyone is interested.
He was thinking of asking $1500 and wanting my advice.
The paint and covering seems to be in real good condition
( judging from the attached photos and his comments )
I have not actually seen the plane.
I dont really have an idea as to a price without
an engine but anyone who is interested can call
him. Here is is name and number
This plane should have the folding wings as I asked
him to look at the wing connections and he said
there were some swivel attach dohickeys.
Jim Cook
(770)365-9645
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Sunday flight and grass strip landing
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTrc1j87khs
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ilhWIJEjiA
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
Cristal/Gang:
I especially like the first video of you landing and taking off the grass
strip. That is my kind of flying.
Been on the road 8 weeks today. Watching your video, I could feel Miss
P'fer tugging at my heart strings. Think I miss flying her. Been a while.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Cristal/Gang:
>
> I especially like the first video of you landing and taking off the grass
> strip. That is my kind of flying.
>
> Been on the road 8 weeks today. Watching your video, I could feel Miss
> P'fer tugging at my heart strings. Think I miss flying her. Been a while.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Nellis AFB, Nevada
Thanks John. It was very exciting.
Poor Miss P'fer! She is being so neglected. Next time you leave her for so long,
bring her over here so I can "plane" sit...keep her company, give her exercise,
feed her ethanol gas or 100LL whichever she prefers. :)
Oh ya, and keep the rats from chewing up her seat belts! Little devils! [Evil
or Very Mad]
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269584#269584
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
fumes
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
Kolbers, has anyone experienced engine by-product smell, especially
in a MkIII?
This fall, after a nearly two hour flight, I noticed that my
respiratory system had retained what
smelled like an old oil sump. I don't see any visible evidence or
unusual oil consumption.
Thinking it may have been the location of my vent exit I rerouted it
to the aft of the engine near
a back mount. It was previously behind the top mounted radiator with
possible
migration down through the center section. I flew it for a short ride
this evening but not
long enough for any conclusive revelations.
There is the possibility of airflow reversal during taxi.
It gets parked for the winter tomorrow (short hop to a freebie steel
barn)
????
BB
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
UltraStar gap seal
I thought I would share my wing center section gap seal experience.
I've heard reports ranging from "it flies just the same without it" to "it
flies awful without it". The previous owner of my plane said the former,
though he had little fixed wing flying experience. I made one when I
bought the plane, from heavy clear vinyl velcroed on, and never flew
without it, until tonight.
I just finished installing a new strobe light on the boom tube, just above
the rear wing attach points. It interfered with the gap seal, but I've
always intended to try flying the plane without it, and as it was a calm
evening and I was running out of time, I decided to fly without it.
Never again! The takeoff roll was long, and the elevator seemed strangely
ineffective. I should have aborted right there, but I took off
anyway. Climb performance was much worse. Normally I climb at about 450
fpm; without the gap seal the best I could do was 300 fpm and that at a
much higher airspeed than normal, so it was a long flat climb before I
could turn crosswind over the hill that's under the traffic pattern. Took
more power than normal to fly level, too, and the stick still felt very
wishy washy. I flew a fast steep approach and got it down OK.
I then trimmed the gap seal around the strobe as I should have done in the
first place, put it on, and took off again. This time the plane flew like
it's supposed to fly, and I enjoyed a beautiful sunset flight.
-Dana
--
If email had been around before the telephone was invented, people would
have said, "Hey, forget email! With this new telephone invention I can
actually talk to people!"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
From:
william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: Ultrastar gap seal
- Dana- Thanks for the timely and informative letter.- I am about to ma
ke the gap seal for my FS, and was wondering just how effective they were.
- I was going to make it out of aluminum, and just had a blow-out on the
waterbed matress.- The old mattress supplied enough thick, tough vinyl fo
r a couple of seals, so I will try both.- The mattress vinyl is the right
color, too.
-
-------------------------
----------------------- Bill
Sullivan
-------------------------
----------------------- Winds
or Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
----------------------- FS 44
7
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Matco Brake Problem
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
brad(at)mykcwireless.com wrote:
>
>
> One thing that's unusual is that the pistons are
> really stiff on the master cylinders, and hardly have any travel. It's
> really hard to push them down, even with a hand, and I know that's not
> normal.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
I can almost assure you that this is part of your problem. If the pistons are
not moving fairly easily inside the calipers, you will get very little braking
power. I have had this several times on various braking systems, and it always
has resulted in very poor braking power. Check for corrosion around the rubber
ring inside the caliper, it can cause the rubber to be so tight against the
piston that it will hardly move. Also deformed piston can cause this, but
corrosion is much more common.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269593#269593
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 26, 2009
From:
jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
via pick up tubes
If you use the blue tubing, get the stuff made by Bing sold by
Aircraft Spruce. It will have BING printed on it. The other
unlabeled blue stuff gets hard and becomes brittle.
I use a metal pickup for my main fuel line - use the Bing fuel line
for connection from the top of the pick up and the rest of the fuel system.
jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
I have warned many times in the past on this list against using the cheap, clear
fuel tubing in any airplane. It is very fragile, easily pinched, easily punctured,
and prone to failure in a number of ways. My lawn mower came with better
fuel tubing than most people use in their Kolbs...
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=48298
Those that continue to use cheap fuel line run a lot of needless risk for nothing.
It is easy to change to quality fuel line, and does not cost much. I use
Aeroquip fuel line in my Kolb, and have also used the expensive $3.50 dollars
a foot High Pressure fuel injection line from Napa in other airplanes. They
are both very good. The cheap stuff from Napa that is about $ 1.50 a foot is
not good, pinches and crushes to easily, the fuel line from Advance Auto Parts
is even worse. I do not and would never have any clear, " toy type " fuel
tubing anywhere in any of my planes.
Mahesh, you can buy all metal fuel pickup tubes from Kolb which would be better
than what you have now. For those that do not see the entire account of the
engine failure, you can read it here.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=48298
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269688#269688
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
For those that use the forum, here is Mahesh account that did not show up on the
forum:
Dear Kolbers,
I wanted to share my experience of a forced landing that I had last weekend
.
I took my Firestar-2 for some take off and landing practice and some flight
around the around the valley. I had gone through a complete preflight, run
up, full tanks of fuel and had three takeoffs and Landing in the pattern.
On my fourth take off I climbed to pattern altitude and as I was turning cr
osswind, I felt a bump and pretty much thought that it was a Thermal below
my wing and continued turning down wind. After my turn, the RPM dropped sud
denly from 6200 to 3200 and a chill ran through my spine. I immediately rea
lized that the engine is going to quit! It ran rough and the RPM was oscill
ating up and down. I wanted the prop to keep spinning and not quit, so I im
mediately got my throttle to idle 2300 RPM and just forced the nose down an
d increased airspeed to 68MPH. I made a quick and short turn to base and th
en final and set myself up for landing. When the prop was spinning with min
imum forward thrust, it felt as If I have thrown a drogue chute out.
I came in nice and made a good three point landing and there was enough po
wer to get me to the taxiway.
I went through a RPM check after parking and as soon as I increased the thr
ottle, I engine completely quit and the prop stood still.
=C2-
I started to trouble shoot and these were my observations:
=C2-
There was no fuel present between the tank pickups to the Diaphragm fuel pu
mp to the carburetor.
The carburetor bowls had almost run dry
=C2-
The was a fuel starvation and hence the engine quit. I started tracing the
fault and had the following possibilities =93 Failure of the fuel pum
p, or failure of the Primer bulb (Check valves) or after discussion with my
friend Roger; it could be an air leak in the line.
=C2-
I replaced my primer bulb with a new marine one, but it did not help. When
I started to pump the primer bulb, it was not pushing the fuel up to the fu
el pump. On further trace, I found that one of the pick up tubes in one of
the tanks had given way.
=C2-
The problem:
I have two fuel tanks (5 gallons) each. I had modified my pick up, such tha
t I passed a short piece of urethane tubing attached to the fitting and the
n inserted a metal pick up tube that extended right to the bottom of the ta
nk and had the entire arrangement safety wired. The blue urethane fuel line
being in continuous contact with fuel, became soft and gave way with time
(2 months only) and the metal pick up dropped to the bottom of the tank in
flight. Since I have tee,ed the two pickups from both the tanks, the failed
pick up started to draw in air and stopped fuel flow, resulting in fuel st
arvation.
=C2-
The improvement:
I modified and reinforced the metal pick by running the =C2=BC=9D ure
thane tube right over it to the end of the tank such that it will never fai
l and provided safety wiring adequately.
=C2-
I also provided a parallel bypass line to the primer bulb with an in line s
hut off valve that I will switch off during priming and start up and turn o
n after start up to bypass the primer bulb. This helps incase the primer bu
lb check valves fail and ensures that there is a constant flow of fuel to t
he engine. It is also recommended in the CPS article. I also ordered for a
new fuel pump even if I have just 60 hours on it. The rebuild time is 100 h
ours per Rotax.
=C2-
My learning=99s that may be helpful to some of you:
I have limited time on the Kolb (35-40 hrs) and am a novice on this airplan
e, but wanted to share the following:
=C2-
A Kolb no doubt climbs like a rocket, but also falls like a rock with out a
ny power. It has a lot of drag and my FS-2 sinks at almost 800 feet/minute.
Keep that altitude for its safety in every way. You get that critical time
to make a decision and go for it.
PractisePractisePractise It helps a lot for prac
ticing those no power landings. In my case I had never practiced a power of
f landing on the Kolb, which I plan to do from now on, but my somehow my pr
ivate pilot training that I had undergone was put to practical test :-)) an
d it helped!
During your prefight, if the primer bulb does not become hard, then you can
be=C2-pretty sure that there is an air leak in the system. I used to alw
ays feel that=C2-=C2-there is nothing significant between the tank and
the primer bulb to the fuel=C2-
pump, but was caught by surprise and understood the flow much better
If you have pick up tubes in your tanks, make it a part of your checklist t
o verify=C2-that it=99s in good shape and will not fail.
=C2-
Thanks for reading through my experience and hope it helps some of you.
=C2-
best regards,
Mahesh Iyer
Phoenix, Oregon
Kolb Firestar 2 =93 Powered by a Rotax 503 DCDI and driven by a three
blade IVO prop
The joy of Flight Nothing comes closer, it=99s a ro
mance for life!=0A=0A=0A
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269689#269689
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
> I have warned many times in the past on this list against using the
cheap, clear fuel tubing in any airplane. It is very fragile, easily
pinched, easily punctured, and prone to failure in a number of ways.
>
> Mike
Mike B/Gang:
I have found Gates Premium neoprene fuel line to a good job of delivering
fuel to my 912ULS. Never had a problem with it. Yes, I pay about $1.00 a
foot for it.
I don't know what the draw to clear plastic fuel line is with ultralighters,
other than the standard answer, "I need to see my fuel." ;-)
Always been a firm believer is the KISS formula. Without it I could have
never made some of the flights my mkIII has taken me on.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
At 07:01 PM 10/27/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>I don't know what the draw to clear plastic fuel line is with
>ultralighters, other than the standard answer, "I need to see my fuel." ;-)
John we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, though I agree with
you on most matters aeronautical. Having clear fuel line made it much
easier to solve a baffling engine problem with my UltraStar a few years ago.
But the clear stuff DOES need to be replaced regularly.
-Dana
--
We have enough youth; how about a Fountain of Smart?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
Subject:
Fuel filler stand
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Awhile back Grant, I think it was, asked about methods of filling his Kolb
Mk 2. I have tried everything I could think of short of buying a filling
station pump, and I briefly considered that before I priced them. I did try
several different brands of gas cans with no good results and I have one of
the plunger pumps that is made for one brand of gas can. They work okay if
you want to squat and pull a plunger handle up and down for 20 minutes per
tank. As for me, I didn't enjoy that experience either. So there I was in
the plumbing aisle of Big Box Chicom Sales when inspiration struck. A 4'
piece of 1 1/2" Pvc, some elbows and street ells and a 4" to 1 1/2" reducer
were all I had to buy, the rest came from various strategic supply (junk)
drawers. I'm especially fond of the titanium tube legs, but even those came
from the strategic reserves (junk pile) by way of Boeing Surplus.
Anyway, as you can see it works from front or back so when I enclose the pod
for winter flying I won't have to remove a side panel to use it, just move
it around to the front and take a little care not to splash on the lexan.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
Rick G/Gang:
Are you refueling the space shuttle?
I learned a long time ago how to refuel my airplane.
Go to the hardware store. Buy 6 feet, longer or shorter if needed, of
1" OD X 3/4" ID vinyl tubing (clear) ;-) . Stick one end of it on
the spout of your gas can and the other end into the fuel tank filler.
Pick up the can up higher than the fuel tank filler. Gravity will take
care of the rest. Fuel will flow out of that can like the refuel can at
a NASCAR race.
I carry my "Alabama credit card" with me when I fly cross country in
case I have access to good, clean mogas. In fact, my "alabama credit
card is in my old Dodge Cummins right now in case I need it to refuel my
dirt bike or ATV.
When I get to old to hold the 5 gal can over my head to refuel my mkIII,
I'll go to a 2.5 gal can. If that one gets to heavy, I'll go to a gal
can. If that one gets to heavy, I'll get some young whipper snapper to
refuel for me, or I'll fly over to Wetumpka Airport and put airplane gas
in it with the pump.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
Anyway, as you can see it works from front or back so when I enclose the
pod for winter flying I won't have to remove a side panel to use it,
just move it around to the front and take a little care not to splash on
the lexan.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
[quote="John Hauck"]Rick G/Gang:
Are you refueling the space shuttle?
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
Aw, cm'on John, lighten up! That looks like as close to a NASCAR pit crew refuel
as any of us will ever get!
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269761#269761
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fumes
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Robert,
You can feel the air flow coming back up the fuselage tube like some one
with a leaf blower at the aft end.If you moved the vent close to the fuse
lage the fumes will end up in the cabin.I had to make a 4" thick foam plug
with slots cut for the cables placed just ahead of the elevator and rudde
r balcranks at the rear of the fuselage tube.Made it about an inch larger
than the tube diameter.Just made a cut for the cables at the 10,12,2 and
6 o'clock positions.When I changed the exhaust system ,it let me know in
a hurry.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 9:49 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: fumes
Kolbers, has anyone experienced engine by-product smell, especially in a
MkIII?
This fall, after a nearly two hour flight, I noticed that my respiratory
system had retained what
smelled like an old oil sump. I don't see any visible evidence or unusual
oil consumption.
Thinking it may have been the location of my vent exit I rerouted it to th
e aft of the engine near
a back mount. It was previously behind the top mounted radiator with poss
ible
migration down through the center section. I flew it for a short ride thi
s evening but not
long enough for any conclusive revelations.
There is the possibility of airflow reversal during taxi.
It gets parked for the winter tomorrow (short hop to a freebie steel barn)
????
BB
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
At 09:04 PM 10/27/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>...Pick up the can up higher than the fuel tank filler. Gravity will take
>care of the rest. Fuel will flow out of that can like the refuel can at a
>NASCAR race...
I just changed my fueling system, having gotten tired of holding a 5 gallon
gas can up in the air and then stopping at just the right point to avoid
overfilling my 1.75 gallon tanks. I looked at a lot of commercial options
and I use one of the stupid plunger pumps for filling the 2 gallon tank in
my PPG, but I couldn't find anything that really made sense for the Kolb.
I made up a fuel hose assembly that goes into a standard 5 gallon gas can,
replacing the original spout. It goes to the bottom of the can, seals at
the cap with an O-ring, and has a four foot hose on the other end with a
brass globe valve. A small bellows foot pump (a cheap one, made for
filling air mattresses) plugs into the gas can's vent hole, and just a few
pumps starts the fuel flowing. If the can's not full, there will be enough
pressurized air in the can to keep the fuel flowing even after you stop
pumping... and the valve lets you stop the flow instantly. When you only
have a Part 103 legal 5 gallons, you want to fill right up to the neck!
Before anybody says pressurizing a gas can is dangerous: A gas can left
out in the sunshine will develop 5-6 psi of pressure. The pressure due to
fluid depth is about 1/2 psi per foot, so if there's 18" from the back of
the can to the top of the spout when pouring normally, that's 1-1/2 psi to
get a reasonable speed flow. Pump fuel up 4' (up to the level of my
reserve tank behind the seat) is another 2 psi. Total 3-1/2 psi,
considerably less than the can in the sunlight is designed to handle. And
of course I vent the can after pumping, then reclose the vent cap.
I'll post pictures if anybody is interested.
-Dana
--
Please let me know if you did not receive this.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 27, 2009
Go to the hardware store. Buy 6 feet, longer or shorter if needed, of
1" OD X 3/4" ID vinyl tubing (clear) ;-) . Stick one end of it on
the spout of your gas can and the other end into the fuel tank filler.
Pick up the can up higher than the fuel tank filler. Gravity will take
care of the rest. Fuel will flow out of that can like the refuel can at
a NASCAR race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
this works great if there is a vent on the tank,,, if there is not a
vent, after the tank starts to collapse with a vacuum, then loosen the
filler connector, the air will suck into the tank and the gas will flow
down the hose. you should not loose over 1 or 2 drops of fuel. if you
tighten the filler just as the fuel runs out, you will be ok.
Boyd Young
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Hi Boyd/Ya'll:
If your fuel can doesn't have a vent, drill a hole in it. When finished
fueling, stick a golf tee in it to seal.
john h
mkIII
Nellis AFB, Nevada
this works great if there is a vent on the tank,,, if there is not a
vent, after the tank starts to collapse with a vacuum,
Boyd Young
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> I don't know what the draw to clear plastic fuel line is with ultralighters,
> other than the standard answer, "I need to see my fuel." ;-)
>
>
You are very correct John, people parrot this line and have no understanding of
how flawed and dangerous their reasoning is.
There is no need to see the fuel going through the line in any vehicle, be it cars,
boats, or airplanes. No certified or LSA airplane in the world has clear
fuel line so that you can see the fuel going through it. It is nothing short
of ridiculous to think you need to see fuel going through the lines.
There are those that will say " I need to see the bubbles if there is a leak "...
The best answer there is to have a properly designed fuel system that is pressure
fed rather than vacuum drawn. If you are drawing fuel through a vacuum,
then you are asking for vapor lock that will result in engine problems / failure,
or complete engine failure due to the slightest leak. With a pressure
fed system and quality fuel line, chances of a leak is about a thousand times
less than with clear fuel line, and if you do have a leak, you will see a slight
wet place on the line instead of having an engine failure. Many very smart
aircraft designers have been designing fuel systems in airplanes for over 100
years now, and no manufactured aircraft use cheap clear fuel lines. The risk
in using cheap substandard clear fuel line is FAR greater than whatever imagined
benefit that ultralight community has come up with.
People definitely imitate lemmings sometimes, things get started in small communities
like ultralights, and its monkey see, monkey do... People just like follow
whatever everyone else does without questioning it, even if its leading them
off a cliff...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269833#269833
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute?
At 09:17 AM 10/28/2009, Beauford T wrote:
>Do not know if you can "substitute" anything else for poly tone reducer...
>but
>here is what is in the
>MSDS for the reducer...
I just used straight MEK (from the local hardware store) to thin the
Poly-Spray and Poly-Tone for spraying on small repair jobs... worked fine.
-Dana
--
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors-- and miss.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
At 07:33 AM 10/28/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>Hi Boyd/Ya'll:
>
>If your fuel can doesn't have a vent, drill a hole in it. When finished
>fueling, stick a golf tee in it to seal.
Due to new EPA regulations, you can no longer buy fuel cans with vents...
the new regs require dispensing valves with internal vents that seal
automatically and are child proof. Supposedly this prevents spillage and
evaporation. What the idiot bureaucrats failed to realize is that far MORE
fuel is spilled by the cheap valves failing or the pissed off owners
ripping the junk valves off the cans and open pouring the fuel.
Your tax dollars at work...
-Dana
--
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors-- and miss.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
I now use a separate fuel can for slightly higher octane mogas than I
use in my fleet
of equipment. -another walmart red plastic jug with long plastic hose
on it. The vent is a tiny
hole drilled in the handle. Not much can get in there unless you
leave it out in the rain.
Gasoline is constantly outgassing and will prevent small entering
particles.
The jug will also not swell up on warm days.
This is what I do, not a recommendation.
BB
On 28, Oct 2009, at 12:38 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 07:33 AM 10/28/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>> Hi Boyd/Ya'll:
>>
>> If your fuel can doesn't have a vent, drill a hole in it. When
>> finished fueling, stick a golf tee in it to seal.
>
> Due to new EPA regulations, you can no longer buy fuel cans with
> vents... the new regs require dispensing valves with internal vents
> that seal automatically and are child proof. Supposedly this
> prevents spillage and evaporation. What the idiot bureaucrats
> failed to realize is that far MORE fuel is spilled by the cheap
> valves failing or the pissed off owners ripping the junk valves off
> the cans and open pouring the fuel.
>
> Your tax dollars at work...
>
> -Dana
>
>
> --
> Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors--
> and miss.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
At 11:21 AM 10/28/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>There is no need to see the fuel going through the line in any vehicle, be
>it cars, boats, or airplanes....
>There are those that will say " I need to see the bubbles if there is a
>leak "... The best answer there is to have a properly designed fuel
>system that is pressure fed rather than vacuum drawn..
I already presented a situation where having a clear fuel line saved me
hours of troubleshooting. I consider that a "need".
It may be nice to have a pure pressure system, but unless you have a
submerged pump inside the fuel tank or tanks above the engine, there will
always be some part of the system using suction. Furthermore, if you have
a pulse pump like most 2-stroke engines do, the pump must be located close
to the engine, meaning that most of the fuel line is under suction.
Even black rubber hoses have a limited life and must be replaced, so the
difference is only one of degree, not fundamental. I simply have to (and
do) replace my hose more often, as preventative maintenance... and the
visual check I do during my preflight runup gives an added level of safety.
But I don't expect you to agree, and that's fine... there are lots of
pilots who think we're idiots to fly anything but a factory built type
certificated aircraft maintained by an A&P and inspected by an IA, and I
don't agree with them either.
-Dana
--
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors-- and miss.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Hi,
filling tanks seems a general problem. Holding a jerry can above shoulder
height is a bit hard going.
I bought at a show a pump made entirely of plastic. It has a stiff 1 inch
tube on the inlet side and a flexible hose on the outlet side about the
same which protrudes from the pump body at 90 degrees..
The body in essence is a cylinder about 3" x 6" with a sleeve over it with
an attached handle which enables a stroke of about 3 or 4 inches.
I have fixed a Terry Clip to each of the two diagonals above the tanks on
my Xtra. The enables me to put a funnel in the top of the tank. Slide the
flexible hose into the Terry clip with the end in the funnel.
This leaves 2 hands free to pump. You need one to hold the body and one to
pump the handle. It is a bit fiddly because of the short stroke but on the
plus side it weighs only a few ounces and the flexible hose can be rolled up
and the whole thing put away behind the seats.
I won`t pretend that it is an ultra quick method but it is simple,(I
hesitate to say fool proof) light and stowable.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
JetPilot wrote:
>
>
> - - - -SNIP- - - -
> The risk in using cheap substandard clear fuel line is FAR greater than whatever
imagined benefit that ultralight community has come up with.
>
> - - - - SNIP- - - -
>
> Mike
"....using cheap, substandard.... fuel line" is risky, whether it is clear, opaque,
non-clear, black, yellow, orange, pink, chartreuse or polka-dotted.
Is it OK if I use expensive, high standard, clear line? Let me know, 'cause I've
been using pulse line (throughout my fuel system) for 15+ years. Change it
all out once a year. Wouldn't want a problem to develop.
My thoughts..... make your own decisions.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269863#269863
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
> It may be nice to have a pure pressure system, but unless you have a
> submerged pump inside the fuel tank or tanks above the engine, there will
> always be some part of the system using suction.
> -Dana
Dana/Gang:
Not to be argumentive, but to inform. I have a system that is pressure all
the way, when I have my boost pump on.
I pull fuel through a finger strainer out the very lowest point of my 25 gal
aluminum fuel tank. From there atmospheric pressure pushed the fuel to the
Facet Electronic Boost Pump mounted below the lowest point of the fuel tank.
As long as my boost pump is on, I have a completely pressurized system
without a submerged pump in the fuel tank.
Once I turn off the boost pump, I am then pulling fuel through the Facet
Pump to the engine driven fuel pump on the engine. I have never had a fuel
delivery problem. Always use Gates Premium Grade neoprene fuel line. Can't
see bubbles if I have them. If there is a suction leak at one of the
fittings, it isn't enough to cause fuel starvation.
With neoprene fuel line and the correct size hose clamp, I can get a good
bike without fear of cutting the hose, unlike plastic fuel line.
Plastic fuel line is much more prone to failure without giving a lot of
prefailure symptoms. I remember pulling on a plastic pulse tube and pulled
a section right out of it. Don't know how old it was, but back in my two
stroke days, I didn't fly them long before I trashed them.
Worth what you paid for it,
john h
mkIII
Furnace Creek, Death Valley, California
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
"Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
>You are very correct John, people parrot this line and have no understanding of
how flawed and dangerous their reasoning is.
>
Some of us do not have an electrical system, and some of us have severe
weight restrictions, and so the only way to get the fuel up to the pump and
carburetor is by use of squeeze bulb. If the engine is fitted with a
primer, one could do with out a squeeze bulb. The system could be primed by
hand cranking and running the engine in bursts until the fuel is sucked up
to the pump and the float bowl fills. For an older duffer like me, I prefer
some clear tubing in the system between the pump and the float bowl, so
that, I can see that I have fuel up to the float bowl. I am too old perform
the prime and run in bursts technique to prime the system. By the time I
get it done, I am in no shape to go flying.
I like the vacuum type system, in that there is just a short piece of
pressured line to the carburetor from the pump. It reduces the chance of
and reduces the magnitude of in flight fire, in that, the fire will
extinguish its self once the engine quits. On a pressurized system one must
remember to turn off the pump.
There are pro's and con's. No one system fits all. The danger, if any, is
that it is up to the pilot to recognize the failure modes of his system and
adapt to it.
Third start up of the MZ34. Slowly learning the intricacies of the
Tillotson carburetor.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
John, E X P E R I M E N T A L. Your experiment with black lines is working
for you. Mine with translucent is working for me. When I needed to find the
blockage in Zulu Delta's fuel system, having translucent lines certainly
worked for me.
As long as the system is designed around the material specifications and
maintained properly either is just fine and dandy. Some translucent line is
better than others. Some black line is better than others. Ho hum.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>
> >You are very correct John, people parrot this line and have no
> understanding of how flawed and dangerous their reasoning is.
> >
>
> Some of us do not have an electrical system, and some of us have severe
> weight restrictions, and so the only way to get the fuel up to the pump and
> carburetor is by use of squeeze bulb. If the engine is fitted with a
> primer, one could do with out a squeeze bulb. The system could be primed
> by
> hand cranking and running the engine in bursts until the fuel is sucked up
> to the pump and the float bowl fills. For an older duffer like me, I
> prefer
> some clear tubing in the system between the pump and the float bowl, so
> that, I can see that I have fuel up to the float bowl. I am too old
> perform
> the prime and run in bursts technique to prime the system. By the time I
> get it done, I am in no shape to go flying.
>
> I like the vacuum type system, in that there is just a short piece of
> pressured line to the carburetor from the pump. It reduces the chance of
> and reduces the magnitude of in flight fire, in that, the fire will
> extinguish its self once the engine quits. On a pressurized system one
> must
> remember to turn off the pump.
>
> There are pro's and con's. No one system fits all. The danger, if any, is
> that it is up to the pilot to recognize the failure modes of his system and
> adapt to it.
>
> Third start up of the MZ34. Slowly learning the intricacies of the
> Tillotson carburetor.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Taking the safe way out of this one....by saying that I think the
stuff that Travis sells is plenty good...clear...thick walled for use
as fuel or pulse line...Herb
At 12:17 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>JetPilot wrote:
> >
> >
> > - - - -SNIP- - - -
> > The risk in using cheap substandard clear fuel line is FAR
> greater than whatever imagined benefit that ultralight community
> has come up with.
> >
> > - - - - SNIP- - - -
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>"....using cheap, substandard.... fuel line" is risky, whether it is
>clear, opaque, non-clear, black, yellow, orange, pink, chartreuse or
>polka-dotted.
>
>Is it OK if I use expensive, high standard, clear line? Let me
>know, 'cause I've been using pulse line (throughout my fuel system)
>for 15+ years. Change it all out once a year. Wouldn't want a
>problem to develop.
>
>My thoughts..... make your own decisions.
>
>--------
>George Alexander
>FS II R503 N709FS
>http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269863#269863
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>10/28/09 09:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Jack and all
I placed a squeeze bulb such that it pressurizes the fuel tank and
forces the fuel out and through the pump to the bowl...all I have to
do is place my finger over the tank vent hole and squeeze... no in
line squeeze bulb or bypass to worry about...Herb
At 02:07 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote:
>
> >You are very correct John, people parrot this line and have no
> understanding of how flawed and dangerous their reasoning is.
> >
>
>Some of us do not have an electrical system, and some of us have severe
>weight restrictions, and so the only way to get the fuel up to the pump and
>carburetor is by use of squeeze bulb. If the engine is fitted with a
>primer, one could do with out a squeeze bulb. The system could be primed by
>hand cranking and running the engine in bursts until the fuel is sucked up
>to the pump and the float bowl fills. For an older duffer like me, I prefer
>some clear tubing in the system between the pump and the float bowl, so
>that, I can see that I have fuel up to the float bowl. I am too old perform
>the prime and run in bursts technique to prime the system. By the time I
>get it done, I am in no shape to go flying.
>
>I like the vacuum type system, in that there is just a short piece of
>pressured line to the carburetor from the pump. It reduces the chance of
>and reduces the magnitude of in flight fire, in that, the fire will
>extinguish its self once the engine quits. On a pressurized system one must
>remember to turn off the pump.
>
>There are pro's and con's. No one system fits all. The danger, if any, is
>that it is up to the pilot to recognize the failure modes of his system and
>adapt to it.
>
>Third start up of the MZ34. Slowly learning the intricacies of the
>Tillotson carburetor.
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>10/28/09 09:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
At 03:07 PM 10/28/2009, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>Some of us do not have an electrical system, and some of us have severe
>weight restrictions, and so the only way to get the fuel up to the pump and
>carburetor is by use of squeeze bulb. If the engine is fitted with a
>primer, one could do with out a squeeze bulb. The system could be primed by
>hand cranking and running the engine in bursts until the fuel is sucked up
>to the pump and the float bowl fills...
I'm in that category (no electrical and 103 legal, well nearly), but after
a problem with a brand new squeeze bulb that could have turned out very
ugly, I no longer use one. I prime with the plunger primer and the float
bowl fill very quickly. If the engine doesn't want to run long enough on
the prime, another quick shot of prime keeps it going until the bowl is
full. Of course the engine on my UltraStar isn't way up on top like the
later Kolbs.
-Dana
--
The family that shoots together..... shouldn't be messed with!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
gravity feed fuel system
All this talk of fuel system things brings to mind a thought I've had for
some time, which wouldn't work on Kolbs with the engine on top would work
on my UltraStar: Mounting the fuel tank above the engine and using
straight gravity feed (no pump at all). I know I'd need a different float
needle and seat but I'm unclear how much head is needed to get adequate flow.
Another idea would be a small header tank (1 gallon or so) above the engine
and fill it from a larger, lower tank with an overflow returning the excess
to the lower tank. In the event of a pump failure I'd still have 15
minutes or so to find a place to land.
-Dana
--
The family that shoots together..... shouldn't be messed with!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
princeton fuel sending probe
From:
"albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Anyone have a picture of how they mounted theirs? The one I received with my Grand
Rapids EIS just has a rubber grommet. There are 5 holes around the outside
of the sending unit but from what I can gather it is just a pressure fit in the
tank with the rubber grommet... is this correct. If you use the screw holes
with self tappers how do you seal it?
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269898#269898
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: princeton fuel sending probe
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Tony, I don't know if the Princeton is the same one Westach uses, but here's
how I did mine. I do know that self tapping screws will not seal, learned
that one the hard way.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 4:10 PM, albertakolbmk3 wrote:
> cheriebraun(at)xplornet.com>
>
> Anyone have a picture of how they mounted theirs? The one I received with
> my Grand Rapids EIS just has a rubber grommet. There are 5 holes around the
> outside of the sending unit but from what I can gather it is just a pressure
> fit in the tank with the rubber grommet... is this correct. If you use the
> screw holes with self tappers how do you seal it?
>
> --------
> Tony B.
>
> Kolb MKIII C
> Rotax 582
> C Gearbox 3.00:1
> WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269898#269898
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
At 05:12 PM 10/28/2009, Richard Girard wrote:
>Dana, When my buddy, Dave, and I were flying our Kasperwing we tried that
>experiment. Tank above carb (Mikuni) about 1', Zenoah G 25 engine.
>Wouldn't flow enough fuel at full throttle. I have no idea why, it makes
>no sense, it just liked the little extra fuel pressure the Mikuni pump
>added. We actually tried it twice, convinced we had done something wrong
>the first time, but, same result.
Did you change the float needle and seat? There is a different (larger)
needle/seat used for gravity feed systems. The larger needle won't work
for pump systems as the pressure pushes it open.
-Dana
--
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
George,
There is not such thing as clear fuel line that even comes close to the safety
and quality of Aeroquip or High Pressure fuel injection line. The fact that
you feel the need to change your fuel line every year is an indication of how
substandard the stuff is, it does not matter what you paid for it. How many
cars do you have to change the fuel lines out once a year , How many certified
airplanes do you have to replace the fuel lines every year ?? None, because
no manufacturer would risk building such a substandard safety item into an item
that is sold in the open market. More importantly, the clear fuel line would
not pass any safety standard in either cars or planes. Even if you do change
your line out once a year, the cheap clear toy fuel line is still very fragile,
prone to crushing and a number of other things.
I fully support your right to make your own choice in fuel lines. I hope you
keep a close eye on it, keep changing it, and have no problems. But most importantly,
everyone should have the facts about the disadvantages and dangers of
this type of fuel line and make an informed decision instead of just copying
what other ultralights do.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269904#269904
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"George Myers" <gmyers(at)grandecom.net>
Subject:
princeton fuel sending probe
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
The rubber grommet only is correct for a top mount. I believe you can get a
copy of the installation instructions online. If not then I'll copy mine &
email them to you.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of albertakolbmk3
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:10 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: princeton fuel sending probe
Anyone have a picture of how they mounted theirs? The one I received with my
Grand Rapids EIS just has a rubber grommet. There are 5 holes around the
outside of the sending unit but from what I can gather it is just a pressure
fit in the tank with the rubber grommet... is this correct. If you use the
screw holes with self tappers how do you seal it?
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269898#269898
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Dana,
Your gravity feed system is not a good idea. By putting an extra tank and lines
above the engine from below, you increase your risk of fire, and a number of
other things going wrong. The best and safest way to approach this is again
what Certified aircraft manufacturers do, which is to pressure feed your fuel
from below with an electric pump to the engine driven pump. The system should
be designed so that either pump alone could keep the engine running. Chances
of having two pumps fail at once are nil, and you don't have all the hazards,
and complication of what you are proposing.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269916#269916
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
Your argument would make more sense if so many manufacturers of high wing
aircraft didn't use gravity feed from tanks above the engine, and no fuel pump.
Over on the PPG lists, there has been a recurring discussion over the
relative safety of tanks above vs. below the engine. People scream about
the fire dangers of high mounted tanks, but in reality the only fire that
has ever happened with a high tank was when an oil soaked rag stuffed
behind the exhaust caught fire and then ignited the tank... whereas there
have been a number of fires after low mounted tanks got ruptured in a hard
landing.
And an electric pump is only possible when you have a 12V electrical
system, which I don't (nor did the Taylorcraft I used to own).
-Dana
At 07:00 PM 10/28/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>Your gravity feed system is not a good idea. By putting an extra tank and
>lines above the engine from below, you increase your risk of fire, and a
>number of other things going wrong. The best and safest way to approach
>this is again what Certified aircraft manufacturers do, which is to
>pressure feed your fuel from below with an electric pump to the engine
>driven pump. The system should be designed so that either pump alone
>could keep the engine running. Chances of having two pumps fail at once
>are nil, and you don't have all the hazards, and complication of what you
>are proposing.
--
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk?
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
> There is not such thing as clear fuel line that even comes close to the
safety and quality of Aeroquip or High Pressure fuel injection line.
>
> Mike
Mike B/Gang:
I don't see a requirement for using high priced, high pressure fuel
injection hose when working with 3 to 5 psi.
There is such a thing as extreme overkill.
john h
mkIII
Furnace Creek, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject:
Re: princeton fuel sending probe
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Anyone have a picture of how they mounted theirs? The one I received
with my Grand Rapids EIS just has a rubber grommet. There are 5 holes
around the outside of the sending unit but from what I can gather it is
just a pressure fit in the tank with the rubber grommet... is this
correct. If you use the screw holes with self tappers how do you seal
it?
--------
Tony B.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Tony,
I use the Princeton and have used the westach senders both of them
with just the grommet. I haven't had any problems with either of them as
far as the fuel is concerned. I have been using them that way for
approx. 400 hours.
Larry C Oregon
HKS 66 hours
503 200 hours
447 287 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
In a message dated 10/28/2009 5:13:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:
Dana, When my buddy, Dave, and I were flying our Kasperwing we tried that
experiment. Tank above carb (Mikuni) about 1', Zenoah G 25 engine. Wouldn't
flow enough fuel at full throttle. I have no idea why, it makes no sense,
it just liked the little extra fuel pressure the Mikuni pump added. We
actually tried it twice, convinced we had done something wrong the first time,
but, same result.
Hi all,
Here's something to consider. Motorcycles don't use a fuel pump (at least
the older ones that I rode didn't) and their fuel tanks are only inches
above the engine/carburetors, yet they didn't seem to have a problem with
gravity fuel flow.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
I have been using the blue "see thru fuel lines" for the last 20
years and have never had problem - except the minor fire in the hanger
incident - hardly worth mentioning - considering the $100's of
dollars I've saved !!
At 05:41 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote:
>
>George,
>
>There is not such thing as clear fuel line that even comes close to
>the safety and quality of Aeroquip or High Pressure fuel injection
>line. The fact that you feel the need to change your fuel line
>every year is an indication of how substandard the stuff is, it does
>not matter what you paid for it. - snip - But most importantly,
>everyone should have the facts about the disadvantages and dangers
>of this type of fuel line and make an informed decision instead of
>just copying what other ultralights do.
>
>Mike
>
>--------
>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
>you could have !!!
Sorry Beauford - I didn't get my video done - trying to survive the
R.E. market up here & hate to waste pictures.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
From:
jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Bad thing about plain vinyl tubing is static - better to pick up a
Oklahoma refueling station from Harbor Freight, that is Jiggler
Siphon Hose with anti-static hose and a pea shaker on the end for
starting the flow.
They have two sizes, the regular about 5/8" dia and the 7/8"
gusher. Your talking 5 gallons in short order with it. Both have
anti-static hoses, an important feature.
jerb
At 06:04 PM 10/27/2009, you wrote:
>Rick G/Gang:
>
>Are you refueling the space shuttle?
>
>I learned a long time ago how to refuel my airplane.
>
>Go to the hardware store. Buy 6 feet, longer or shorter if needed,
>of 1" OD X 3/4" ID vinyl tubing (clear) ;-) . Stick one end of
>it on the spout of your gas can and the other end into the fuel tank
>filler. Pick up the can up higher than the fuel tank
>filler. Gravity will take care of the rest. Fuel will flow out of
>that can like the refuel can at a NASCAR race.
>
>I carry my "Alabama credit card" with me when I fly cross country in
>case I have access to good, clean mogas. In fact, my "alabama
>credit card is in my old Dodge Cummins right now in case I need it
>to refuel my dirt bike or ATV.
>
>When I get to old to hold the 5 gal can over my head to refuel my
>mkIII, I'll go to a 2.5 gal can. If that one gets to heavy, I'll go
>to a gal can. If that one gets to heavy, I'll get some young
>whipper snapper to refuel for me, or I'll fly over to Wetumpka
>Airport and put airplane gas in it with the pump.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Nellis AFB, Nevada
>
>
>Anyway, as you can see it works from front or back so when I enclose
>the pod for winter flying I won't have to remove a side panel to use
>it, just move it around to the front and take a little care not to
>splash on the lexan.
>
>Rick Girard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation
From:
"George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date:
Oct 28, 2009
May be futile. But have to try. Be kind Matt D.
JetPilot wrote:
>
> George,
> There is not (sic) such thing as clear fuel line that even comes close to the
safety and quality of Aeroquip or High Pressure fuel injection line.
As a simple statement, who could quarrel with that? However, safety and quality
are relative to the application. I am satisfied that the quality of the clear
line that I use exceeds the requirements for my application and I feel that
it is safe to use on my aircraft. You may say/think otherwise. That's your
right.
BTW, in my fuel system, only the inside walls of the fuel line come in contact
with the fuel/oil mix. None of it is submerged. My tanks are bottom feed.
JetPilot wrote:
> The fact that you feel the need to change your fuel line every year is an indication
of how substandard the stuff is, it does not matter what you paid for
it.
Bad assumption, Mike. In spite of what you may think of others' intelligence,
if I felt it was substandard, I wouldn't have it on my plane.
The reason that I change it annually is the same as the reason that I use it in
the first place. It is "clear". Running fuel/oil mix through it, age/time,
sunlight all create discoloration. Discoloration reduces the "advantage" of being
able to see through it.
Witness a condition that Beauford discovered with his system. Being able to see
the build up of an unknown substance on the inside wall of his fuel line, may
have, repeat, may have, prevented an engine out. (See attached photo.)
If any of that crude had made its way to the bowl of his single carb, R447, he
very likely would have heard only the air rushing over his VGs.
I have since seen a similar (not quite as severe) build up in my system. Beauford
and I use different fuel line, use fuel from different sources, we do both
use the same 2 stroke oil (as does a large number of the 2 stroke engine operators)
and both pre-mix. The only common denominator for us is storage of our
aircraft in very warm (sometimes damned hot) conditions here in SW FL. While
it is a guess, the heat may be the source/contributor to the crude. Heat, fuel
additives, etc... who knows. Only know that the crude was there and it was seen
through the clear fuel line and would have not been seen with non-clear line.
Hope your storage facility is nice and cool. Your mean temp in South FL is about
5 deg higher than ours.
Jet Pilot wrote:
> How many cars do you have to change the fuel lines out once a year , How many
certified airplanes do you have to replace the fuel lines every year ?? None,
because no manufacturer would risk building such a substandard safety item
into an item that is sold in the open market. More importantly, the clear fuel
line would not pass any safety standard in either cars or planes.
Your analogy to cars or certified airplanes and their applicable standards. Do
cars and certified airplanes have the same criteria for safety/operation standards?
Do all cars and all certified airplanes use the same fuel line? Are compression
checks required on auto engines every year? No? Different standards
based on the application maybe?
Jet Pilot wrote:
> Even if you do change your line out once a year, the cheap clear toy fuel line
is still very fragile, prone to crushing and a number of other things.
Admittedly different grades of fuel line are available. Some I wouldn't put on
the aerator of a tank that housed fish that I didn't even like. But I'm not
sure how I can make it any clearer. I DO NOT USE, nor do I recommend the use
of "cheap clear toy fuel line". Your inference is that all clear fuel line
is "cheap clear toy fuel line." I believe you to be mistaken and misleading to
readers.
Jet Pilot wrote:
> I fully support your right to make your own choice in fuel lines.
I appreciate your support of my rights.
Jet Pilot wrote:
> I hope you keep a close eye on it, keep changing it, and have no problems.
Not to worry. It is my duty to myself and my family to keep a "close eye on it"
(that's why I like clear!), keep changing it (so I can continue to see through
it!) and keep it at the no problem level to the best of my ability.
Jet Pilot wrote:
> But most importantly, everyone should have the facts about the disadvantages
and dangers of this type of fuel line and make an informed decision instead of
just copying what other ultralights do.
And as long as there are a multitude of contributors to this list, who are willing
to share their experiences/views/etc..... the reader will have to glean "the
facts". With the various views that are presented, I am confident that most
people understand that there isn't any one individual who has a corner on the
"facts". Not even if they be ultralighters who bend tubes or jet pilots who
overshoot their destination by 150 miles.
I'm done! Not worth nearly what you paid for it!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269946#269946
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_line_136.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
The system should be designed so that either pump alone could keep the
engine running. Chances of having two pumps fail at once are nil, and you
don't have all the hazards, and complication of what you are proposing.
Tank above, tube in the middle, carburettor below. No pump. What is
complicated.?
Haven`t noticed many lawnmowers bursting into flame recently.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Even with multiple electric pumps, when that 12VDC goes away you
better start looking for a good spot.
BB
On 29, Oct 2009, at 10:39 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
>
> The system should be designed so that either pump alone could keep
> the engine running. Chances of having two pumps fail at once are
> nil, and you don't have all the hazards, and complication of what
> you are proposing.
>
> Tank above, tube in the middle, carburettor below. No pump. What
> is complicated.?
>
> Haven`t noticed many lawnmowers bursting into flame recently.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Luckily, the only static I get is from the Kolb List. ;-)
john h
Death Valley, CA
Bad thing about plain vinyl tubing is static jerb
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel filler stand
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Sticking the legs in the ground wouldn't work where I am now, Death
Valley, CA. Kinda dry here. My new inside/outside thermometer/humidity
meter would not register the humidity last night in the 5th wheel. I
got a "Lo" indication. I think 10% is the lowest it registers in
numerals.
john h
mkIII
Jerb, The metal frame grounds the whole rig right to ground when I
push the legs into the ground. I never refuel in the hangar and the
humidity in Kansas keeps the static to a minimum.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Arksey(at)aol.com
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Subject:
fuel system debate
I get a kick out of this fuel system debate...wish some of you engineers
would draw up the correct system so people would know what to do...cannot
resist adding my 2 cents worth...Our kolbs do not lend themselves to gravity
system from a pratical standpoint....so why not just come out of the bottom
of our tanks, go to a electric fuel pump, then to a gascolator, then to a
inline fuel filter if you want and then to the pulse pump and from there to
the carbs....use good stuff for the fuel lines , you end up with a dual
system. will run with elec pump shut off on the pulse pump and use the elec
pump on take off and landing.....you end up with a pressure system with elec
pump on and can fill the carbs....gives you a back up if pulse pump
fails...if you use a primer I would suggest thinking about putting that line into
the fuel tank separate from the fuel line to get fuel for the
primer....small battery will run a elec fuel pump and recharge from engine charging
system..piece of cake and works good....for those that fly true ultra light
where weight is the problem you will have to go with a good set up using the
pulse pump....but if it was me i would get my pilot license n number the
plane and go with the system mentioned above for better safety of my body. I
now feel better....jswan
looks to me like fuel system's cause a lot of the forced landings...
do not archive
jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
From:
"icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)aol.com>
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Jack,
>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. What
size battery is it taking to start your new engine?
Scott
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
> Kolbers,
>
> After several false starts, today I managed to get the engine started.
> Found the problem was that the engine manual listed that the ignition would
> be active with the black wire grounded. This was not the case.
>
> I tied the tail wheel to the pickup for start up. With the initial
> propeller setting, the engine topped out at 5,200 rpm . With free air
> cooling, the CHT topped out at 450 degrees F. No reading from the EGT, as I
> had mistakenly installed a non functional gauge. Replaced the EGT gauge
> with a functional dual unit, and took some pitch out of the propeller.
> Started the engine again, and ran it up to 5,300 rpm and leaned out the high
> speed jet so that the EGT read 1,100 degrees F. CHT temp held at 450
> degrees F. Backed off to adjust the low speed jet, and the engine quit.
> Checking things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down
> to the collapsed state. Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something
> had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank. This was not the case. I
> banged the intake side of the bulb with a screw driver handle and it broke
> the seal and reinstalled everything. Started the engine several times, and
> I could see that the bulb would start to collapse and the engine would quit.
> I gave up for the day.
>
> I will have to install a bypass to be able to use the squeeze bulb as it is
> much more flaccid than the original one. Probably will call TNK and get a
> new squeeze bulb sent.
>
> Overall, not a bad day. The engine is mounted with the original engine
> mounts along with bulk head mounts which were supplied with the engine. The
> bulk head mounts are very flexible, and so the engine does dance around a
> little more than I expected. Once the low and high speed jets and
> mechanical idle screw were adjusted, the engine ran much smoother. There is
> much less engine mass to dampen out the firing impulse, but with the engine
> running over 2,000 rpm things seem to settle down.
>
> Need to redesign my magneto kill switch, and I am going to change and move
> the starter switch to mount on the positive battery terminal. Moving the
> start switch will reduce some weight and make it much easier to activate as
> it will be closer to the cockpit.
>
> I was worried that the decompression valve would not work well when starting
> with the throttle closed. It has not been a problem, and the very small
> starter spins the engine over nicely.
>
> A step closer to getting back into the air.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269992#269992
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fuel system debate
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Arksey(at)aol.com wrote:
> I get a kick out of this fuel system debate...wish some of you engineers would
draw up the correct system so people would know what to do...cannot resist
adding my 2 cents worth...Our kolbs do not lend themselves to gravity system
from a pratical standpoint....so why not just come out of the bottom of our
tanks, go to a electric fuel pump, then to a gascolator, then to a inline fuel
filter if you want and then to the pulse pump and from there to the carbs...use
good stuff for the fuel lines , you end up with a dual system. will run with
elec pump shut off on the pulse pump and use the elec pump on take off and
landing.....you end up with a pressure system with elec pump on and can fill
the carbs....gives you a back up if pulse pump fails...if you use a primer
I would suggest thinking about putting that line into the fuel tank separate
from the fuel line to get fuel for the primer....small battery will run a elec
fuel pump and recharge from engine charging system..piece of cake and works
good....for those that fly true ultra light where weight is the problem you
will have to go with a good set up using the pulse pump....but if it was me i
would get my pilot license n number the plane and go with the system mentioned
above for better safety of my body. I now feel better....jswan
> looks to me like fuel system's cause a lot of the forced landings...
> do not archive
> jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan
>
JSwan,
What you describe above is a very reliable, well thought out, and still simple
fuel system.
Electric pump to push fuel up to the engines pulse pump - All pressure fed, Never
draw fuel for any distance with a vacuum.
Gascolator
Quality Fuel Line
Quality Filter
A high quality, simple, and well engineered fuel system can easily be done on even
the smallest ultralights that use a Rotax 447 ( Firefly )... Something as
simple as a well designed fuel system would eliminate a large percentage of
Kolb engine failures. In ultralights we cant always have the same safety standards
as full scale aircraft, its not always practical for an ultralight...
But the fuel system is one area that can be designed to aviation standards and
still be small, simple, light and still practical for an ultralight. I don't
subscribe to the attitude that some people do, that just because they am flying
an ultralight, that they will use cheap and substandard parts, and poor
engineering practices. I build and maintain my planes, even the small 2 cycle
planes, as close to accepted aviation standards as possible, and to be as safe
and as reliable as is possible as technology allows in an ultralight.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270006#270006
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
"Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
>
>Jack,
>
>>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly.
What size battery is it taking to start your new
engine?
>
Scott,
I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It is a little
expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4,
2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well. After 52
flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster on the
battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.
This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.
How it was mounted can be seen at:
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: Gravity feed fuel system
- Mike- Dana has an Ultrastar.- The engine is mounted very low, and if
only one tank is used a gravity feed looks like it would probably work.-
-I think it's the only Kolb model with the engine mounted under the boom
tube.- It looks like a dragonfly.
-
-------------------------
------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------- FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
At 03:35 PM 10/29/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>...running fuel tubing from the bottom tanks of a Kolb to an EXTRA tank on
>top of the engine on a Kolb as Dana described is a bad idea, and most
>definitely an added fire hazard.
>
>Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel tank on a
>Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as hazardous, draggy, and
>not practical in an aircraft where the engine is the highest part of the
>plane.
Obviously you didn't bother to read my entire message. I fly an UltraStar,
which has the engine BELOW the wing, with plenty of room for a tank above
the engine. I wasn't proposing it for any other Kolb model. I'm not so
stupid as to think that it would make sense for an aircraft with the engine
at the highest point.
>...I personally thing these two individuals are just looking for any way
>possible to discredit anything I post here...
No, only the things you say that are wrong, or show that you haven't
bothered to read the message you're responding to.
-Dana
--
For every new foolproof invention there is a new and improved fool.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: fuel system debate
At 03:17 PM 10/29/2009, JetPilot wrote:
>...Something as simple as a well designed fuel system would eliminate a
>large percentage of Kolb engine failures...
A well MAINTAINED fuel system would eliminate even more...
-Dana
--
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government. - Thomas Jefferson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
"Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
>
>Jack and all
>
> I placed a squeeze bulb such that it pressurizes the fuel tank and
>forces the fuel out and through the pump to the bowl...all I have to
>do is place my finger over the tank vent hole and squeeze... no in
>line squeeze bulb or bypass to worry about...Herb
>
>
Herb,
Thank you for an elegantly simple solution.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Arksey(at)aol.com
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
Subject:
Re: fuel system debate
In a message dated 10/29/2009 8:13:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:
Jim, It's the beauty of experimental aviation that a builder has the right
to design his system as he sees the requirements. I'd love to have a nice
light weight aluminum tank with bungs for bottom draw and water drains, but
for now I have plastic tanks with TNK supplied top draw fittings. I've had
a broken off flapper valve in a primer bulb put me on the ground and found
a split bushing on a bottom tap so I learned from those failures.
Realizing the danger of no longer having a balance line between tanks I put in
a
selector valve so I can draw off left or right tank, or both. I can also shut
off the fuel draw completely should that need arise. I put in a Facet low
pressure pump as a boost pump, but I have a Mikuni pulse pump, too. I know
from testing I can shut off the boost pump and the 582 hums right along on
the pulse pump alone. The only problem I've had was caused by plastic
debris from a gas can mod that jammed the selector valve. Now I have pick up
filters to keep that from happening again. The experiment continues and I'll
adapt the system as I see fit. The choices I've made have been driven by the
experience of myself and others.
All these absolutes about must haves and must bes are just so much
belligerent chest beating.
Bottom line is, and this isn't directed at you personally Jim, if YOU want
the best system for YOUR airplane sit down with pencil and paper and start
with YOUR ideas and build the system YOU want. Make YOUR best decisions,
take pride in and do YOUR best workmanship, test YOUR system and then, I
hope, put up pictures and descriptions on this forum so we can share in YOUR
creativity.
I continue to learn a lot here from all the builders who graciously share
with everyone. I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a
guy who never shares anything but his bad manners.
Rick Girard
Hi Rick,
I take no offense from your post...I agree with your dual system....I
like the idea of people posting pictures and drawings of their system's so
it can help people make good decisions.......my firestar had plastic tanks
when we got it and fuel oulets out of the bottom....so we just left it that
way. I put in a elec pump which is below the tanks....if the elec pump
will pull gas using top tank fuel lines i see no problem with it.I know a lot
of people do not like the idea of those rubber groumets in the bottom of
the plastic tanks but i have had no problem with them so far....they did leak
a bit when we flew the plane back to Michigan from Oklahoma but i replaced
them and they have given no problem since. The mikunni pulse pump is
drawing gas almost to its maximum distance specs in most all of our kolbs where
the two plastic fuel tanks are used and located, and yes things must be
maintained.. I do not want to beat this fuel system thing to death but feel
it is important, do not like to have people get hurt. I know some of you
guys fly over terrain that I would feel uncomfortable in a twin...jswan
do not archive
jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 29, 2009
From:
jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. I've
heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your
battery in after a short time. Same I told the ones that Batteries
Plus sell are better. I have got the foggiest idea which is
better. Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is good
and the other is bad?
jerb
At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Jack,
> >
> >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly.
>What size battery is it taking to start your new
>engine?
> >
>
>Scott,
>
>I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It is a little
>expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4,
>2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well. After 52
>flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster on the
>battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.
>
>This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.
>
>How it was mounted can be seen at:
>
>http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html
>
>Jack B. Hart FF004
>Winchester, IN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Jerb
I have had real good service with a Schumacher Model SE-1562A battery
maintainer. I use cheep Wal-Mart and Meijer utility batteries. I get a small
12 Amp battery and use it to start my 2180cc VW engine (most would consider
this extreme service). These batteries need to be charged to 90-100% or the
engine will not start. I keep the battery on the maintainer 365 days a year.
It comes with a quick connect that gets permanently connected to the
battery. I normally get three-fours years of service before I spend $25
large or so for a new battery. I notice even after flying when I connect the
maintainer it will go to charge for a few minutes to bring it up to full
charge (there is a short period of low RPM just before shut down where the
battery discharges a bit). Before I started using the maintainer I would
have to replace the battery every spring.
I have never used the Harbor Freight float charges on a small battery but I
have three of these. I put two on my boat and car in Florida for the summer
and my farm tractor in Michigan in the winter. I had such good service with
the Schumacher unit I just had to try the Harbor Freight (HF) units and at
$5-$10 each it seemed worth a try. It is too soon to really say if I will
get the same service. I have had the HF float charger on the boat battery
for four years. After two years the boat battery died but it was 12 years
old so? This will be the second summer on the new battery. I think it will
also be three summers on the Florida car battery.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerb" <ulflyer(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
>
> What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. I've heard
> from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your battery in
> after a short time. Same I told the ones that Batteries Plus sell are
> better. I have got the foggiest idea which is better. Any one got any
> factual info on this subject why one is good and the other is bad?
> jerb
>
> At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Jack,
>> >
>> >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your
>> >>Firefly.
>>What size battery is it taking to start your new
>>engine?
>> >
>>
>>Scott,
>>
>>I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It is a
>>little
>>expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July
>>4,
>>2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well. After 52
>>flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster on the
>>battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.
>>
>>This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.
>>
>>How it was mounted can be seen at:
>>
>>http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html
>>
>>Jack B. Hart FF004
>>Winchester, IN
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
>>Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel tank on
a
>>Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as hazardous, draggy, and
>>not practical in an aircraft where the engine is the highest part of the
>>plane.
>
> Obviously you didn't bother to read my entire message. I fly an
> UltraStar,
>
> -Dana
Dana/Gang:
In the beginning the Ultrastar had two Azusa go kart fuel tanks of 1.75 gal
each for a grand total of 3.5 gal. Was just enough fuel to get me in
trouble in 1984.
The area above the engine mount was ideal for a third 1.75 gal tank, which I
ordered from Little Mike at Kolb and promptly mounted, using Adel clamps and
a couple aluminum tubes. Now I had 5.25 gal total. The top tank was my
reserve tank. When the fuel in the bottom two tank got low enough for the
contents of the reserve tank, I opened a valve at my right hand and drained
the fuel.
There was no additional drag created by addition of the third tank. The
pilot in the Ultrastar completely mask the engine and the reserve fuel tank.
This system worked like a charm, was safe, and never had a n on board fire,
although I had two serious accidents with the Ultrastar.
john h
mkIII
Death Valley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
>> I placed a squeeze bulb such that it pressurizes the fuel tank and
>>forces the fuel out and through the pump to the bowl...all I have to
>>do is place my finger over the tank vent hole and squeeze... no in
>>line squeeze bulb or bypass to worry about...Herb
>>
>>
>
> Herb,
>
> Thank you for an elegantly simple solution.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
Good Morning Gang:
Something to consider.
Back in my two stroke days, I have prevented a total engine failure by being
able to continue to pump fuel to the carb when the pulse pump when belly up.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
>>Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel tank on
a
>>Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as hazardous, draggy, and
>>not practical in an aircraft where the engine is the highest part of the
>>plane.
>
> Obviously you didn't bother to read my entire message. I fly an
> UltraStar,
>
> -Dana
Dana/Gang:
In the beginning the Ultrastar had two Azusa go kart fuel tanks of 1.75 gal
each for a grand total of 3.5 gal. Was just enough fuel to get me in
trouble in 1984.
The area above the engine mount was ideal for a third 1.75 gal tank, which I
ordered from Little Mike at Kolb and promptly mounted, using Adel clamps and
a couple aluminum tubes. Now I had 5.25 gal total. The top tank was my
reserve tank. When the fuel in the bottom two tank got low enough for the
contents of the reserve tank, I opened a valve at my right hand and drained
the fuel.
There was no additional drag created by addition of the third tank. The
pilot in the Ultrastar completely mask the engine and the reserve fuel tank.
This system worked like a charm, was safe, and never had a n on board fire,
although I had two serious accidents with the Ultrastar.
john h
mkIII
Death Valley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
> Something to consider.
>
> Back in my two stroke days, I have prevented a total engine failure by
> being able to continue to pump fuel to the carb when the pulse pump when
> belly up.
>
Didn't do a good job of explaining my self.
I was able to continue flying with power by pumping the squeeze bulb to get
fuel to the engine.
john h
mkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"mark.shimei" <mark.shimei(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
fuel system
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
I use the fuel system(almost) everyone seems to avoid......metal feed
line
from top of the tank to the bottom(no holes on bottom of tank) clear
fuel
line,squeze bulb,plastic fuel filter(like Johns) and a rectangle pulse
pump.
Had this on a Phantom for 7 years and almost 300hrs(tank and engine 4'
apart
vertically) did my share of loops and rolls and NEVER HAD A FUEL
PROBLEM.Took tank out occasionally to remove sediment and what little
water
might have gotten in there,Mr. Funnel works well.Changed fuel lines
every 2
yrs or so,when they got opaque or started to get hard.
Plane was 103 compliant.No electric start,minimal instruments,no
brakes.
My Ultrastar is set up the same way,also 103 compliant.60 hrs since may
this
year.I think John H has more ; )
Mark in Florida.......flame suit on!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
At 11:45 AM 10/30/2009, John Hauck wrote:
>In the beginning the Ultrastar had two Azusa go kart fuel tanks of 1.75
>gal each for a grand total of 3.5 gal. Was just enough fuel to get me in
>trouble in 1984.
>
>The area above the engine mount was ideal for a third 1.75 gal tank, which
>I ordered from Little Mike at Kolb and promptly mounted, using Adel clamps
>and a couple aluminum tubes. Now I had 5.25 gal total. The top tank was
>my reserve tank. When the fuel in the bottom two tank got low enough for
>the contents of the reserve tank, I opened a valve at my right hand and
>drained the fuel.
Exactly what I have, except my reserve tank is 1.5 gallons mounted behind
the seat. Obviously gravity is enough to feed fuel to the lower tank far
faster than the engine draws it; I'm just concerned with how fast gravity
will push it past the float needle... I'll have to check; there's probably
a spec for the required height when using the gravity flow needle.
My interest in a 5 gallon tank is twofold: Reliability (no fuel pump), and
the space currently occupied by the main tanks can be used as a small
storage area.
-Dana
--
Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?
________________________________________________________________________________
MessageMark
It is too bad we feel that we will get blasted for sharing ideas. My
first airplane, a Weedhopper that I built also, had the same fuel
system. I never had any fuel system problems but I did have many others.
If you have to have a top of the tank feed system I think the metal tube
is a good idea. It isn't as likely to be hurt by the fuel.
When I flew certified GA airplanes they all had bottom feed tanks with
finger strainers, gascolators and drain valves. Low wing airplanes also
had boost pumps because the tanks were low also. By trial and error
certified GA airplanes evolved to be safer using these and many other
standard systems. Yes aerobatic airplanes use top feed tanks with flop
tube pick ups but is a compromise to keep from sucking air when
inverted.
There is nothing wrong with your fuel system in fact it is a improvement
over systems some people have invented. I just feel that where possible
we should try to try to take advantage of the lessons learned in the
evolution of aircraft design. There are certainly reasons such as cost
and aircraft configuration where you may want to deviate from these
proven designs be aware changes are a compromise.
The argument that bottom tanks using the rubber bushing system might
leak is a concern but properly done most find them leak free. The down
side of the the top feed tanks is that they have more potential (most
never do but....) of a problem that would cause a forced landing.
Weighed against a bottom feed leak that can be detected and fixed on the
ground I would think the safer choice is bottom feed.
My concern is that the chest pounding of some might lead others to
follow a less safe design thinking it is the safest.
The choice is yours.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: mark.shimei
To: Kolb List
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: fuel system
I use the fuel system(almost) everyone seems to avoid......metal feed
line from top of the tank to the bottom(no holes on bottom of tank)
clear fuel line,squeze bulb,plastic fuel filter(like Johns) and a
rectangle pulse pump.
Had this on a Phantom for 7 years and almost 300hrs(tank and engine 4'
apart vertically) did my share of loops and rolls and NEVER HAD A FUEL
PROBLEM.Took tank out occasionally to remove sediment and what little
water might have gotten in there,Mr. Funnel works well.Changed fuel
lines every 2 yrs or so,when they got opaque or started to get hard.
Plane was 103 compliant.No electric start,minimal instruments,no
brakes.
My Ultrastar is set up the same way,also 103 compliant.60 hrs since
may this year.I think John H has more ; )
Mark in Florida.......flame suit on!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gravity feed fuel system
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
Dana wrote:
> Your argument would make more sense if so many manufacturers of high wing
> aircraft didn't use gravity feed from tanks above the engine, and no fuel pump.
>
>
Dana,
There is a HUGE difference between mounting a header tank, or even a fuel tank
on the top of a Kolb Ultrastar and expecting it to gravity feed the engine and
using gravity feed from Wing tanks down to the engine on a tractor type airplane
( Cessna etc. ). The vertical distance from the tank to the carb on the setup
you describe is very short, very probably not enough for RELIABLE gravity
feed to the carb. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen, I hope you don't
hurt yourself.
The distance from wing tanks down to the bottom of the engine where the carb is
on a certified airplane is 3 or 4 times the vertical drop, supplying much more
pressure. So no, there is no comparison between what you propose and the system
that Cessna, or other certified airplanes use.
You and and Russ stated " Certified airplanes use gravity feed systems, so ...
" There is really no comparison...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270136#270136
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
Jerb
KITPLANES had a good article by Bob Fritx on chargers, couple months
ago. I can maybe find a copy if you can't get one.
Russ K
do not arfchive
On Oct 30, 2009, at 12:23 AM, jerb wrote:
>
> What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. I've
> heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your
> battery in after a short time. Same I told the ones that Batteries
> Plus sell are better. I have got the foggiest idea which is
> better. Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is
> good and the other is bad?
> jerb
>
> At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Jack,
>> >
>> >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your
>> Firefly.
>> What size battery is it taking to start your new
>> engine?
>> >
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It
>> is a little
>> expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002
>> to July 4,
>> 2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well.
>> After 52
>> flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster
>> on the
>> battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.
>>
>> This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.
>>
>> How it was mounted can be seen at:
>>
>> http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html
>>
>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>> Winchester, IN
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fuel system debate
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
rickofudall wrote:
>
>
> Bottom line is, and this isn't directed at you personally Jim, if YOU want the
best system for YOUR airplane sit down with pencil and paper and start with
YOUR ideas and build the system YOU want. Make YOUR best decisions, take pride
in and do YOUR best workmanship, test YOUR system and then, I hope, put up pictures
and descriptions on this forum so we can share in YOUR creativity.
> I continue to learn a lot here from all the builders who graciously share with
everyone. I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who
never shares anything but his bad manners.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
This is among the WORST aviation advice I have ever heard. It is nothing short
of ridiculous to say YOU will have the best fuel system if YOU sit down and design
it. That is emotional, feel good, but very dangerous advice that will get
people hurt in airplanes. Jim may or my not capable of designing a safe fuel
system, many people here most definitely do not have the knowledge to design
a reliable fuel system . Just because YOU design it does not make it good or
even safe. The correct and best advice here would be for Jim to build his
fuel system to accepted aviation safety and engineering standards, not to sit
down with a pencil...
Accuracy means something to me. It's vital to my sense of values. I've learned
not to trust people who are inaccurate. Every aviator knows that if mechanics
are inaccurate, aircraft crash. If pilots are inaccurate, they get lostsometimes
killed. In my profession, life itself depends on accuracy.
Charles A. Lindbergh
Its clear that Rick Girard is all about " Feel Good posts " and personal politics
rather than giving good aviation advice. I give some of the best, most technically
accurate posts on this list, and Rick constantly tells others to ignore
good information I post, mislead people, and would even put them in danger
in desperate attempt to discredit my posts as he did above. Only a total insecure
looser needs to act this way.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270145#270145
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
"Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
All in favor say "Aye"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
From:
"Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
>
>What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. I've
>heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your
>battery in after a short time. Same I told the ones that Batteries
>Plus sell are better. I have got the foggiest idea which is
>better. Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is good
>and the other is bad?
Jerb,
I have been using a little charger that was designed for charging sealed
lead batteries. I purchased it from All Electronics Corp years ago.
Currently they do not sell the one I have. The closest to it can be seen
at:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/BC-212/12VDC-500MA-2-STAGE-CHARGER-FOR-LEAD-ACID-BATTERIES/-/1.html
I believe what you want is a charger that will top off the battery and then
drop back the charge current to maintain a constant maximum voltage on the
battery. This is called the float so that the battery is maintained at peak
charge but not over charged.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject:
Re: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
AYE
On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
> All in favor say "Aye"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject:
Re: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
Just how loose is this guy? How would we know?
It never ceases to amaze me how some subjects, that are for the most
part a waste of breath not to mention bandwidth on a subject that isn't
going to change anyone's mind or his installation, draws such heated
discussion. I have to admit that I don't understand why some people have
to have everyone agree with him or for that matter the last word, but
the fact remains that some do, better to ignore them totally and let
them believe that they have had the last word, than to continue beating
your head against the wall like a moth at a screen door.
Of course I have just violated it, but I believe it was Will Rogers that
said- "Never miss a chance to shut up". If not him then it was Samuel
Clemens.
Larry, Oregon.
----- Original Message -----
From: russ kinne
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act
this way."
AYE
On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
> All in favor say "Aye"
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/30/09 15:18:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
Subject:
Re: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
From:
Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Yup, Will Rogers... He also said, "=93There are three kinds of men. The ki
nd
that learns by reading. There're a few who learn by observation. The rest o
f
them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.=94 Probably apropos
for light flying.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Larry Cottrell wro
te:
> Just how loose is this guy? How would we know?
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how some subjects, that are for the most part
a
> waste of breath not to mention bandwidth on a subject that isn't going to
> change anyone's mind or his installation, draws such heated discussion. I
> have to admit that I don't understand why some people have to have everyo
ne
> agree with him or for that matter the last word, but the fact remains tha
t
> some do, better to ignore them totally and let them believe that they hav
e
> had the last word, than to continue beating your head against the wall li
ke
> a moth at a screen door.
>
> Of course I have just violated it, but I believe it was Will Rogers that
> said- "Never miss a chance to shut up". If not him then it was Samuel
> Clemens.
>
> Larry, Oregon.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* russ kinne
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2009 2:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this
> way."
>
>
> AYE
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
>
> >
> > All in favor say Navigator Photoshare, and href="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp; vi
a
> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
> http://www.matronics.com/c===============
=
>
>
> ------------------------------
> - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
9
> 15:18:00
>
> *
>
===========
ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fuel system debate
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
rickofudall wrote:
>
> I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who never shares
anything but his bad manners.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
This was posted before my post, yet did anyone say a word about Rick Girard starting
this shit again ? Or did they totally ignore a totally uncalled for post
by Rick, and then took the first opportunity complain about my post ?
Double Standards, Hypocritical Behavior, and the rules only apply when you like
them to. No wonder the Kolb list is all but dead except for a few of the same
old objectionable people...
Everyone is afraid to post on this list. I think it is time that a new friendly
Kolb forum be started, where EVERYONE is subject to the same rules and standards
of posting.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270169#270169
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
rickofudall wrote:
>
> I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who never shares
anything but his bad manners.
>
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
This is what Rick posted posted before my post, yet did anyone say a word about
Rick Girard starting this shit again ? Or did they totally ignore a totally
uncalled for post by Rick, and then took the first opportunity complain about
my post ?
Double Standards, Hypocritical Behavior, and the rules only apply when you like
them to. No wonder the Kolb list is all but dead except for a few of the same
old objectionable people...
Everyone is afraid to post on this list. I think it is time that a new friendly
Kolb forum be started, where EVERYONE is subject to the same rules and standards
of posting.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270170#270170
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Rules of Posting, Double Standards, and Hypocrisy ...
From:
"JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
rickofudall wrote:
> I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who never shares
anything but his bad manners.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
Here is an totally inappropriate and offensive comment posted by Rick Girard in
a thread he was not even involved in. Yet no one said a word about it. When
I responded to this post, the same few instigators very rapidly started complaining
about my post. I have no use for Hypocrites that would apply double standards,
and only want to apply the rules of posting to people they don't like.
These same people that claim to be offended by my response have posted some
of the worst and most vile attacks ever seen on this forum, but raise hell
once I respond.
How many of you would accept this type of behavior ? I certainly will not accept
this behavior. I will never be intimidated by a bunch of hypocrites that only
want to apply the rules to me, while they ignore the objectionable and vile
things said by their friends to instigate these type of problems. These few
people shown a pattern in starting problems the personal attacks, and then claiming
I am to blame for their bad behavior. This has been going on here for
years. Gangs feel real good when they try to bully one person with their numbers,
and we have a little gang here that values gang type behavior over fair
play, and equal enforcement of the rules, they are nothing more than objectionable
losers that don't follow any rules, don't care about right and wrong. Many
people see this behavior, and most just leave the list... Its no wonder this
list is all but dead. This small group is more interested hurting this list
more than they help.. The fact that they would try to steer readers away
from good safe advice about their kolbs just because they don't like who posts
it is nothing short of criminal. They put their own politics and agenda above
your safety. What a nice, ethical, bunch of guys we have here...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270179#270179
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
To Much Drama....
From:
"ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date:
Oct 30, 2009
Remember when we used to talk AIRPLANES??? That was fun ! I read the post I think
will help me and take or leave everything else....I feel it's up to the person
that is reading the post to decide whether or not it's safe for him/her and
if you have a better idea,simply say "well,this is how I do it..." and let
them decide.Not one of these airplanes are the same and NO ONE THING works for
every one plane.I am sure I would fine things I would not do on my airplane
that any one of you would do on yours.Like John h says...."It's worth what you
just payed for it !" There is no need for anyone to get pissed off at anybody
on this list....a wise man told me once...." If you have nothing nice to say,Keep
you mouth shut !"
chris ambrose
M3X/JABIRU 75.7 hrs +
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270190#270190
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
I too have been there ,in those days I did not have a by pass on the pump
bulb so not sure it would work as well now if needed . sure was happy at the
time that it got me home , was only about 10 miles, also above pretty
sociable ground . Nothing like a manual fuel pump when the other type stop.
Little like the best bilge pump in the world is a scared man with a bucket
...
Downunder
MK111c
503
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
>
>
> > Something to consider.
>>
>> Back in my two stroke days, I have prevented a total engine failure by
>> being able to continue to pump fuel to the carb when the pulse pump when
>> belly up.
>>
>
>
> Didn't do a good job of explaining my self.
>
> I was able to continue flying with power by pumping the squeeze bulb to
> get fuel to the engine.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"kirkds" <kirkds(at)dishmail.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel
starvation
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
I wonder if a wind driven pump has ever been tried on aircraft? The wind has
been pumping water for a long time.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
Subject:
New throttle linkage
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
The original throttle linkage in Zulu Delta was worn and the throttle cable
needed replacing so I took the opportunity.......That's about how most of
her mods got started. :-)
The goals were to have a system with a simple throttle cable, no clamp
screws, and stops at both ends of the levers travel. Nothing fancy, although
before I finished I put in an adjustment screw the the lever end of the
cable to augment the ones on the top of the carbs. When I set the stops I
was very careful to make sure that the carb slides went to top of the
throttle bore but no further when the lever was full forward, ie slides have
about a 1/4" clearance to the carb top plate so they aren't stressing the
cables.
With about 12 hours on the new linkage I've noticed something that strikes
me as unusual. When I come off full throttle after take off the throttle has
to come back about a quarter of its travel before I get a response from the
engine. Once at this point throttle response is proportional to lever
movement. I have pulled the air cleaner after landing and this area comes
when the slides are about 1/4 to 1/3 down from fully open.
What I know:
All jetting is stock, needles are adjusted to the #2 groove to lean the
midrange.
Plugs are new, insulators are light brown.
All temps are in the green at all times.
Engine never stumbles, coughs, burps or exhibits any odd running at any RPM
or altitude, although the highest I've had her since refit is 5000' AGL.
I only use full throttle from take off to 700' to 1000' all climbs from that
point are done in cruise climb RPM, 5600 to 5800, although I have done
climbs as high as 3000' on full throttle during phase one testing. I've run
up to full throttle after reaching flight test altitudes (3000' AGL) when
doing departure stalls
Carbs are synchronized, the 582 runs like a sewing machine.
There is no binding or obstruction of the throttle cable. Everything works
smoothly.
The new linkage has the same ratios and pivot points as the original.
What I don't know:
The only thing I can think of that I do not know is rotary valve timing, I
just haven't gotten to checking it.
Any ideas. I should add that I don't think of this as a problem, the engine
runs perfectly and has gobs of power. It's just an oddity that's a bit
puzzling.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing-
Fuel starvation
At 07:50 AM 10/31/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
> >
> > I wonder if a wind driven pump has ever been tried on aircraft? The
> wind has
> > been pumping water for a long time.
>
>Yes, I believe it has. It was built by the guy that made an extra one for
>the space shuttle. It's my understanding that they both have exactly the
>same efficiency.
There are wind driven emergency hydraulic pumps on jetliners... ask Capt.
Sullenberger about that one. :)
-Dana
--
What has four legs and an arm? A happy pit bull.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net>
Subject:
Kolb-List
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
My next order of buisness is to unsubscribe from this list. There I have had
the last word!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
"Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject:
Re: New throttle linkage
>
............
With about 12 hours on the new linkage I've noticed something that strikes
me as unusual. When I come off full throttle after take off the throttle has
to come back about a quarter of its travel before I get a response from the
engine. Once at this point throttle response is proportional to lever
movement. I have pulled the air cleaner after landing and this area comes
when the slides are about 1/4 to 1/3 down from fully
open.
.........
Any ideas. I should add that I don't think of this as a problem, the engine
runs perfectly and has gobs of power. It's just an oddity that's a bit
puzzling.
>
Rick,
There is nothing unusual about what you are seeing. Most engines are fitted
with oversized carburetors meaning they can pass more air and fuel that the
engine can use to produce its rated hp.
I found this to be true with the Bing 54 on the 447 and the Victor 1+. Both
engines would develop max hp at less than 40% of full slide displacement.
See: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly58d.html
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: "Only a total insecure looser needs to act this way."
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
I've just changed the quotation in my signature and thought some might find it
apropos. You can read it below.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
- William G. McAdoo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270229#270229
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: New throttle linkage
- What kind of cable housing is it?- I can't quite identify it from the
photos.-
-
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
---Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
---FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing-
Fuel starvation
At 10:56 AM 10/31/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
>...we weren't talking about these, either. We were talking about wind
>driven fuel pumps.
>
> Think about it. Sitting on the runway, zero airspeed, all ready for
> that long climbout at slow airspeed, and expecting an air driven pump to
> power your fuel supply. Even Rube Goldfarb woul find it a challenge!!!
>
> You're not suggesting Sully could drop his wind driven generator on the
> ramp. and furnish cabin air conditioning, are you?
No, I know very well what the ram air turbines are for; I was just making a
comment.
While I'm sure an air powered fuel could be made, I see no reason to
believe that it'd be any better or more reliable than other options.
Despite what my now-flitered naysayer says, I'm still working on learning
just how much height is required for gravity feed with no pump. Gravity
never fails.
-Dana
--
Televangelists: The Pro Wrestlers of religion.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
New throttle linkage
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Richard et all,
I have always assumed, probably incorrectly,that the last 1/4" of travel
of the slide in the Bing 54,did nothing more than fatten up the mixture
by hauling the needle out of the jet the maximum amount.I should have che
cked it while it was on the bench to see if it did.
G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200A
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 31, 2009 8:51 am
Subject: Kolb-List: New throttle linkage
The original throttle linkage in Zulu Delta was worn and the throttle cabl
e needed replacing so I took the opportunity.......That's about how most
of her mods got started. :-)
The goals were to have a system with a simple throttle cable, no clamp scr
ews, and stops at both ends of the levers travel. Nothing fancy, although
before I finished I put in an adjustment screw the the lever end of the
cable to augment the ones on the top of the carbs. When I set the stops
I was very careful to make sure that the carb slides went to top of the
throttle bore but no further when the lever was full forward, ie slides
have about a 1/4" clearance to the carb top plate so they aren't stressin
g the cables.
With about 12 hours on the new linkage I've noticed something that strikes
me as unusual. When I come off full throttle after take off the throttle
has to come back about a quarter of its travel before I get a response fr
om the engine. Once at this point throttle response is proportional to lev
er movement. I have pulled the air cleaner after landing and this area com
es when the slides are about 1/4 to 1/3 down from fully open.
What I know:
All jetting is stock, needles are adjusted to the #2 groove to lean the mi
drange.
Plugs are new, insulators are light brown.
All temps are in the green at all times.
Engine never stumbles, coughs, burps or exhibits any odd running at any RP
M or altitude, although the highest I've had her since refit is 5000' AGL.
I only use full throttle from take off to 700' to 1000' all climbs from th
at point are done in cruise climb RPM, 5600 to 5800, although I have done
climbs as high as 3000' on full throttle during phase one testing. I've
run up to full throttle after reaching flight test altitudes (3000' AGL)
when doing departure stalls
Carbs are synchronized, the 582 runs like a sewing machine.
There is no binding or obstruction of the throttle cable. Everything works
smoothly.
The new linkage has the same ratios and pivot points as the original.
What I don't know:
The only thing I can think of that I do not know is rotary valve timing,
I just haven't gotten to checking it.
Any ideas. I should add that I don't think of this as a problem, the engin
e runs perfectly and has gobs of power. It's just an oddity that's a bit
puzzling.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. >>
I have no power in my hangar and have used a solar panel fixed to the roof
to keep the battery topped up for a couple of years.
This seemed to have worked even when the weather is poor and I haven`t flown
for some time. For some reason those two seem to be connected.
I aaume something must be working as when I forgot to plug the panel in the
battery was flat the next time I need it.
The panel is a real cheapo, about 12" X 18" and is sold by gadget magazines
to keep your car battery topped up.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Oct 31, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
At 01:12 PM 10/31/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
> You could do the calculations of determining the "pressure head" of your
> UltraStar's fuel system, but I doubt you need to. You already know it
> works just fine.
It works just fine now, but as I said, there are reasons I'm interested in
changing it.
The head pressure due to gravity is roughly 1/2 psi per foot. My Mikuni
pump puts out 2-4 psi. I know I need the larger float needle, but I don't
know the required height. When I adjusted the Stromberg carburetor in my
Taylorcraft, it gave specs for the fuel height when checking float
function. I've seen nothing like that for the Mikuni.
-Dana
--
Scientists cause cancer in laboratory animals.
________________________________________________________________________________
> The head pressure due to gravity is roughly 1/2 psi per foot. >
>Dana
Dana=2C
My apologies for not completing my thoughts. I got distracted. (wife bug
ged me)
Since gasoline has a specific gravity of .75=2C the head pressure is redu
ced by the same proportion=2C giving us the following=3B .75 X .433 psi
= .325 psi
Be sure to take this into account in your design. Wouldn't it be easier
to just buy a Mikuni or Facet fuel pump=2C even if you have a gravity feed
system?
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: Simplify your PC. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:
WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen1:102009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 01, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November!
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. There is NO advertising to support the Lists. You might have noticed the conspicuous lack of flashing banners and annoying pop-ups on the Matronics Email List email messages and web site pages such as the Matronics List Forums ( http://forums.matronics.com ), the List Wiki ( http://wiki.matronics.com), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), the List Browser ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution
counts!
Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with
the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided
by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and
have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/).
These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective
web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product
line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support
of the Lists again this year!!
You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this
year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods
afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with
a qualifying Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 01, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
At 08:51 PM 10/31/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
> Now you have me curious why you want to change your already fine
> working gravity flow system. You must be getting ready to design something.
No, you misunderstand... I currently don't have a gravity flow system; it's
the original setup with a Mikuni pump pulling fuel from the two tanks in
front of the seat. The only thing that's gravity feed now is the third
tank which drains into the main tanks. I want to go with a single 5 gallon
gravity feed tank above the engine, to eliminate the pump and free up the
space in front of the seat.
> Small detail I thought I'd mention, though. You mention the head
> pressure is about 1/2 psi per foot. I believe you may be quoting the
> water head pressure per foot of .433 psi.
Yes, I know, gas is lighter. I was being VERY approximate, ballpark numbers.
-Dana
--
In America, anyone can become president. That's one of the risks you take.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 01, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
At 09:05 AM 11/1/2009, Dan Walter wrote:
>Dana, I haven't been able to come up with a 5 gal tank I can mount
>anywhere on my Ultrastar. I currently have a 4.5 gal seat tank that is no
>longer available. I always run into interferance with the aileron
>control rod and cables that run up the sides of the frame. If you come up
>with something that will fit, Please let me know.
Grrr, I meant to measure the space this after noon after flying, but I
forgot until the wings were already folded. The 8" dia x 24 tank _might_
fit, but it'd be close. A custom tank to fit that space would work, but
it'd cost. I'll have to remember to check next weekend (DST is over so no
more flying after work).
-Dana
--
Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pacman affected us as kids,
we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills, and listening
to repetitive music.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"mark.shimei" <mark.shimei(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Hodges fuel volatility tester
Date:
Nov 01, 2009
I have one of these for sale NIB for those who blend their fuel.They are $65
new,make offer.
Thought it might be useful to another Kolb flier. Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
thinner
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
If all the crap has died down, I would like to respond to the person in
Hawaii who needed to know what to thin poly stuff down with. You need to
understand that MEK is a mixing agent that is also a drying agent. It dries
almost immediately but has very high penetration power. You use MEK to mix
in poly tak so it glues and sets quickly for putting your fabric on (for
example). Now, from experience, I have learned that you do not use MEK in
poly brush. It loosens the fabric quite quickly and you have to scrap
everything. (one whole wing panel). I use lacquer thinner in poly brush,
spray and even in poly paint. Now, be very careful how much you use in the
paint because it is very thin anyway. I prefer to use a drying agent such
as 85 or so depending on the weather so I can control how fast the paint
dries for a good sheen. But -- if all you can get is the lacquer thinner, I
would do that but practice on something with it first. It has a tendency to
fog over and make itself dull. I hope this answers your question
completely. I did not jump in when the waters were so muddy with crap talk.
Let us please get this list back to actually talking about Kolbs instead of
boobs. I realize of course, there are others out there with different
knowledge and experience and do things differently. I just cannot seem to
pay such a high price for thinner. My opinion. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb
Slingshot 912 UL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
thinner
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
> I use lacquer thinner in poly brush=2C spray and even in poly paint.
>My opinion. Ted Cowan=2C Alabama=2C Kolb
> Slingshot 912 UL.
Ted=2C
Ellery and you suggest lacquer thinner may be an acceptable solvent in Po
ly Fiber products=2C on some occasions.
I have only covered my MkIII=2C but =2C for me=2C I'd be afraid of mixing
things that the Poly Fiber makers wouldn't approve of. Personally=2C my o
wn experience with PF is quite limited=2C so I have no long term examples o
f how well the fiber stays on.
Have the Poly Fiber people mentioned anything about lacquer thinner being
an approved solvent for their products?
I'm not arguing with your use of lacquer thinner=2C I'm just curious if i
t is safe=2C and won't hurt the adhesion of the PF glues. Is there any emp
irical evidence it doesn't have any deleterious affects?
Again=2C I'm not arguing with lacquer thinner's use=2C but for me and my
limited knowledge=2C I'd need to know 100% it wouldn't hurt the Poly Fiber
process. I'd hate to be buzzing along in three years=2C and the wing's fab
ric fell off.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
From:
Dave Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
Dana,
When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular
tank located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely
cleared the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to
cut high grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
Subject:
A pledge to the members
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot and his
posts to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were offended, I
apologize. I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again refer to his or any
other abusive comments in any way.
To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's
frustrating to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I remind
you that you are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once named the
tendency to feel compelled to answer a question, even a distasteful one as,
"the tyranny of the question", I would suggest that email has created the
tyranny of the post. Curiosity, habit, or simply going through the latest
deliveries to the inbox make it all too easy to have untoward content
inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself a favor and simply delete the post
individually or set up a filter to delete them automatically.
Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where
information is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft. We
have already lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps while
flying. Their loss is keenly felt but their last contribution to the pilot
community is the notice that things went wrong and a post crash discussion
of the crash and evidence left behind. It would be a terrible further loss
if someone else repeated their loss by not having access to this forum.
Again, please reconsider leaving.
I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in the
hopes that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for out EAA
chapter's newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for commentary
and review before I write the finished article.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Cool looking rice rocket fairing.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Dave Kulp wrote:
> Dana,
> When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
> replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular tank
> located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely cleared
> the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to cut high
> grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
>
> Dave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
Re: A pledge to the members
Very well said, Rick. Thank you.
Matt Dralle
Kolb List Administrator
At 08:56 AM 11/2/2009 Monday, you wrote:
>One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot and his posts
to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were offended, I apologize.
I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again refer to his or any other
abusive comments in any way.
>To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's frustrating
to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I remind you that you
are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once named the tendency to feel
compelled to answer a question, even a distasteful one as, "the tyranny of
the question", I would suggest that email has created the tyranny of the post.
Curiosity, habit, or simply going through the latest deliveries to the inbox
make it all too easy to have untoward content inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself
a favor and simply delete the post individually or set up a filter to delete
them automatically.
>Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where information
is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft. We have already
lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps while flying. Their loss
is keenly felt but their last contribution to the pilot community is the notice
that things went wrong and a post crash discussion of the crash and evidence
left behind. It would be a terrible further loss if someone else repeated their
loss by not having access to this forum. Again, please reconsider leaving.
>I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in the hopes
that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for out EAA chapter's
newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for commentary and review
before I write the finished article.
>
>Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
At 10:03 AM 11/2/2009, Dave Kulp wrote:
>Dana,
>When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
>replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular tank
>located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely cleared
>the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to cut high
>grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
Did you retain the fuel pump?
I guess the first order of business this winter is to order the larger
float needle and measure the fuel flow, then see what kind of tank I can
fit in that space. Where did you get your tank from?
-Dana
P.S. What happened to the plane?
--
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.
Professionals built the Titanic.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: thinner
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
From:
Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Mike
I have covered many airplanes in the past and some of them working with a
couple different A&P's using Lacquer thinner some ultralights but also
some ceritfied airplanes I have asked that same question to the A&P's I
have worked with and they told me that Lacquer thinner is the same stuff
as what poly fiber sells only for more cash and that they have beeen usi
ng it for years and have never had any problems
and I have many hundreds of hours in aircraft with having used Lacquer thi
nner and I have not had any fabric leaving any part of my plane
I have not called Polyfiber with that question , But what do you think the
y will say anyway They want to sell you as much as they can for a premium
rate
but to get the shine you want in your paint finish you have to use the thi
nner that will let the paint cure at the correct rate depending on the con
ditions you are working in "Temp & Humidity"
I am not going to argue with anyone I think we have had enough of that on
this list lately
But if you use it in your poly brush,spray and even in poly paint well is
that connected to the airplane you are flying ? are you leaving a trail
of fabric in your travels?
Ellery in Maine
Dont worry Go Flying & have a great flight
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 6:45 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: thinner
> I use lacquer thinner in poly brush, spray and even in poly paint.
>My opinion. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb
> Slingshot 912 UL.
Ted,
Ellery and you suggest lacquer thinner may be an acceptable solvent in
Poly Fiber products, on some occasions.
I have only covered my MkIII, but , for me, I'd be afraid of mixing thin
gs that the Poly Fiber makers wouldn't approve of. Personally, my own exp
erience with PF is quite limited, so I have no long term examples of how
well the fiber stays on.
Have the Poly Fiber people mentioned anything about lacquer thinner bein
g an approved solvent for their products?
I'm not arguing with your use of lacquer thinner, I'm just curious if it
is safe, and won't hurt the adhesion of the PF glues. Is there any empir
ical evidence it doesn't have any deleterious affects?
Again, I'm not arguing with lacquer thinner's use, but for me and my lim
ited knowledge, I'd need to know 100% it wouldn't hurt the Poly Fiber proc
ess. I'd hate to be buzzing along in three years, and the wing's fabric
fell off.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it no
w.
========================
===========
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject:
lessons learned
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
lazy & complacent , I was both ,also lucky because no harm was done.
I was practicing off airport landings , landed on a dirt road along
the side of
a field that farm equipment uses to service the field. On one side of
the road there was a ditch
with tall weeds, on the other side the crop. From the ditch to the
field is about 20 ft , the road
is dry but the
field is muddy and wet so you really have to pay attention. when I got
ready to take off my
left wingtip is even with the side of the ditch, with the tops of the
weeds about a foot under the wing tip.
150 or 200 ft down the road there was a clump of weeds that looked a
little higher
than the rest but I didn't think anything of it , when I took off I
thought the clump lightly
brushed the wing tip. everything is fine, until at about 1000 ft I
happened to notice that the
fabric under my left wing is flaping in the breeze. I slowed down to
40mph found another
spot and landed. The fabric under the wing about 21/2 ft inboard from
the tip was slit
like it had been cut with a knife from the front spar to the rear
spar. I have a small tool box
on the plane with some things I think I mite need , a roll of 2in
gorilla tape was good for a temp
fix.
-------- lesson learned----- before taking off when I,m not at an
airport, I will walk my takeoff
run. If anything looks even slightly unusual I will check it out
before going.
Frank Goodnight
firestar 2
brownsville , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"JAMES BEARD" <JAMESBEARD305(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Re: A pledge to the members
Date:
Nov 02, 2009
Hey, Rick.....welcome to the club! This post was right on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard<mailto:aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: A pledge to the members
One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot
and his posts to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were
offended, I apologize. I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again
refer to his or any other abusive comments in any way.
To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's
frustrating to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I
remind you that you are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once
named the tendency to feel compelled to answer a question, even a
distasteful one as, "the tyranny of the question", I would suggest that
email has created the tyranny of the post. Curiosity, habit, or simply
going through the latest deliveries to the inbox make it all too easy to
have untoward content inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself a favor and
simply delete the post individually or set up a filter to delete them
automatically.
Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where
information is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft.
We have already lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps
while flying. Their loss is keenly felt but their last contribution to
the pilot community is the notice that things went wrong and a post
crash discussion of the crash and evidence left behind. It would be a
terrible further loss if someone else repeated their loss by not having
access to this forum. Again, please reconsider leaving.
I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in
the hopes that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for
out EAA chapter's newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for
commentary and review before I write the finished article.
Rick Girard
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
igator?Kolb-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Here is how I solved the fuel tank problem....and the sitting-upright-in-the-chair
feeling.The tank is just sitting in place,it is now straight across the back
of the seat.
--------
Mark R
Kolb Modified US Cuyuna UL2 60+hrs
Kolb Twinstar,503,12hrs
Phantom, Kaw 440 250hrs
SE-5A UL 3 hrs
Eipper Quick, Chrysler power Bee 8hrs
PA28-140...350hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270763#270763
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc_0708_895.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"George Myers" <gmyers(at)grandecom.net>
Subject:
lessons learned
Date:
Nov 03, 2009
That's exactly how I learned to roll a quicksilver. T post in tall grass
jammed the aileron. Falldowngoboom.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of frank.goodnight
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:51 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: lessons learned
>lazy & complacent , I was both ,also lucky because no harm was done.
>I was practicing off airport landings , landed on a dirt road along
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 03, 2009
From:
Dave Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
Did you retain the fuel pump?
I guess the first order of business this winter is to order the
larger
float needle and measure the fuel flow, then see what kind of tank
I can
fit in that space. Where did you get your tank from?
-Dana
P.S. What happened to the plane?
Dana,
I kept the fuel pump. I bought the tank from a home and garden center
nearby who deal in Exmarks. The tank is from a Turf Tracer walk-behind
mower. I sold the plane after a windstorm broke a tiedown and bent the
right leading edge. A fellow who has a roofing company bought it, and I
think he's almost ready to fly it. Only heard from him once or twice
since I sold it.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Flight to Dennis Souder
Date:
Nov 03, 2009
Things seem a slow on the list so I thought I'd share a few picts from
a recent trip Candy man Willie Z. and I took to drop in and say Hi to
Dennis, and Yvonne Souder,
and their friendly neighbors.
Enjoy
http://picasaweb.google.com/etzimm/FlightToDennisSouderS?feat=directlink
Gene Z
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
From:
"George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date:
Nov 03, 2009
Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
> Things seem a slow on the list so I thought I'd share a few picts from a recent
trip Candy man Willie Z. and I took to drop in and say Hi to Dennis, and Yvonne
Souder,
> and their friendly neighbors.
> Enjoy
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/etzimm/FlightToDennisSouderS?feat=directlink (http://picasaweb.google.com/etzimm/FlightToDennisSouderS?feat=directlink)
>
> Gene Z
>
Gene:
Thanks for sharing. Looks like you were just ahead of the peak of the foliage.
Also looks like you and Willie were crowd pleasers.
Particularly liked the one ( 21/38 ) of you coming in across the road, in your
highly modified, liquid cooled, FS II with the young man, in his traditional
garb, taking your picture with a cell phone.
Did Willie drop any candy? Don't think I have ever seen him when he wasn't smiling.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://gtalexander.home.att.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270887#270887
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Great photos, Gene. Thanks for posting.
Can you tell me with some precision where the photo 37/38 was taken? That is an
interesting looking place and I think I've been there but don't recall exactly
where it is. Perhaps a screen shot of a google map with the point located would
be easiest way to relate its location.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace.
- Thomas Mann
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270918#270918
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
George,
You're welcome.
Since we never anticipating the response we got from Dennis's good
neighbors, Willie regretfully brought no candy along on this trip.
But you can be sure the next time there will an energetic candy
scramble.
What we discovered after we landed on the rural road was the little
Amish parochial school just up the road.
As you observed, some of Dennis' neighbors though quite
"traditional" are also quite "technologically" contemporary, but as
far as I know they have not yet utilized
any of Dennis's flying machine technology.
; -)
Gene
On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:34 PM, George Alexander wrote:
>
> Gene:
> Thanks for sharing. Looks like you were just ahead of the peak of
> the foliage. Also looks like you and Willie were crowd pleasers.
> Particularly liked the one ( 21/38 ) of you coming in across the
> road, in your highly modified, liquid cooled, FS II with the young
> man, in his traditional garb, taking your picture with a cell phone.
> Did Willie drop any candy? Don't think I have ever seen him when he
> wasn't smiling.
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://gtalexander.home.att.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270887#270887
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Thom,
Picts 37 through 43 were taken from the west side of the river,
looking east over the town of Dauphin Pa
Gene
On Nov 4, 2009, at 7:49 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Great photos, Gene. Thanks for posting.
>
> Can you tell me with some precision where the photo 37/38 was taken?
> That is an interesting looking place and I think I've been there but
> don't recall exactly where it is. Perhaps a screen shot of a google
> map with the point located would be easiest way to relate its
> location.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
> War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace.
> - Thomas Mann
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270918#270918
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Gene Z/Gang:
Looks like you and the Candy Man had a great flight up to Dennis
Souder's. Wish I could have come along on that one.
john h
MKIII
Baker, CA
Things seem a slow on the list so I thought I'd share a few picts from
a recent trip Candy man Willie Z. and I took to drop in and say Hi to
Dennis, and Yvonne Souder,
and their friendly neighbors.
Enjoy
http://picasaweb.google.com/etzimm/FlightToDennisSouderS?feat=directlin
k
Gene Z
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Flight to Dennis Souder
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
John,
Yep sure did. Beautiful day & and very nice people to share it with.
You are certainly welcome to join us next time. ;-)
Gene
On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:06 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> Gene Z/Gang:
>
> Looks like you and the Candy Man had a great flight up to Dennis
> Souder's. Wish I could have come along on that one.
>
> john h
> MKIII
> Baker, CA
>
> Things seem a slow on the list so I thought I'd share a few picts
> from a recent trip Candy man Willie Z. and I took to drop in and say
> Hi to Dennis, and Yvonne Souder,
> and their friendly neighbors.
>
> Enjoy
>
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/etzimm/FlightToDennisSouderS?feat=directlink
>
>
> Gene Z
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject:
need info
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
I,m making a wind screen and need some help. .080 lexan when
attatching to a 5/8 tube.
Should I use screws with a coushin between the tube and the lexan? Or
is it OK to just
pop rivet it to the tube? Thanks for any advice
FRANK GOODNIGHT
FIRESTAR 2
BROWNSVILLE , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: need info
From:
"joepilot503" <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
I used flathead rivnuts and screws on mine, that way you can replace it with ease,
nothing in between and had no cracking or other problems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271044#271044
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Subject:
Re: need info
Frank,
First, make your holes in the screen considerably larger than the diameter
of the fastener you intent to use.
Second, chamfer the holes you drilled, both sides, to avoid cracks
starting to form from the holes.
I would use sheet metal screws as fasteners with a washer. You have better
control of the tightness.
And last, do practice on some scraps first, to get the hang of things.
Be happy you have Lexan to work with, for it is a lot more forgiving than
in the old Plexiglass days, when cracks showed up even by the next day.
Herb Graff
Mark III 246KT
In a message dated 11/4/2009 5:54:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
frank.goodnight(at)att.net writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank.goodnight"
I,m making a wind screen and need some help. .080 lexan when
attatching to a 5/8 tube.
Should I use screws with a coushin between the tube and the lexan? Or
is it OK to just
pop rivet it to the tube? Thanks for any advice
FRANK GOODNIGHT
FIRESTAR 2
BROWNSVILLE , TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
From:
Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
need info
I used 1/8 th inch aluminum rivets, I drilled the holes in the Lexan 3/16
th inch. No problems so far. Lanny N598LF
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Subject:
Autumn flight in Kansas
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
After the chickens and guineas were loosed, the dog walked, and the second
cup of coffee, I hit the hangar determined to get two projects done. One,
build a camera mount to go on the top of the left strut and, two, tuft up
the left side of the fuselage and go fly around and film the tufts. The
camera mount was pretty straight forward, just a couple of pieces of
aluminum angle and a few holes. Tufting up the fuselage didn't take long and
by the time I had Zulu Delta all fueled and ready it occurred to me that my
neighbor, John, had asked me about how the Kolb landed with flaps. Seemed
like a great way to get him to take a few pictures so I did a half flap take
off and landing then a full flap landing after which I departed the pattern
to go see if my first attempt at aerial videography would net me anything.
The little Nikon did great although the contrast when the camera was in the
shade and I was backlighted was a bit too much to ask.
The tuft study was done at airspeeds from 62 to 84 mph and confirmed what I
suspected. The sides aft of the pilot on the Mk IIIC are pretty much
stagnated or otherwise disturbed. only the most aft tufts showed straight
flow going into the prop. In the middle of the panel all the tufts point
upward at ever increasing angles as speed increases. Those just behind the
widest point of the fuselage are very disturbed. The two upper ones got
entangled almost immediately and stayed that way throughout the flight
regardless of speed. The most curious was the lowest tuft in the second row
aft. It pointed forward no matter the speed while both the ones immediately
forward and aft of it were pointing aft and up.
Now I have to learn to use Movie Maker so I can cut the video down and add
titles for each of the speed ranges. As soon as I have it ready I'll post it
on You Tube.
Although I didn't film or get any pictures of the second flight of the day.
I got the prop extension bolts just after noon and had the extension on in
time to make a flight just before sundown. I suspect, given that my tach
bouncing problem reappeared, although milder than running the two blade
prop, that my next project is going to be a prop balancer.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Autumn flight in Kansas
From:
"ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
Rick,
Nice pictures ! Second...do you think VG's would help the cabin side area??
chris ambrose
Mark III Xtra / Jabiru A-2200
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271063#271063
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Autumn flight in Kansas
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Nov 04, 2009
ces308 wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Nice pictures ! Second...do you think VG's would help the cabin side area??
>
> chris ambrose
> Mark III Xtra / Jabiru A-2200
> N327CS
Get some VG's some tape, and stick them in various places on the doors, fuselage
sides, etc. And film all of them. You might get lucky.
At worst, it would be like feeding crackers to a dead man...couldn't hurt much...
Tell everybody you're on an FFF project - flyin', filmin, and foolin around...
As long as you can annoy Al Gore by adding CO2 to feed the cabbages it's all
good...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271064#271064
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
Reminder
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: need info
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
Hi gang,
Thanks to you guys that responded to my request for info.
The list is a wealth of info , seems like there is someone on it ,
that knows something that is
applicable to almost any problem. Can save a lot of time ,
labor ,materials ,and mistakes.
---Love it---
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
Brownsville , TX
Over 100 hrs on my HKS no serious problems
On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:44 PM, frank.goodnight wrote:
> >
>
> I,m making a wind screen and need some help. .080 lexan when
> attatching to a 5/8 tube.
> Should I use screws with a coushin between the tube and the lexan?
> Or is it OK to just
> pop rivet it to the tube? Thanks for any advice
>
> FRANK GOODNIGHT
> FIRESTAR 2
> BROWNSVILLE , TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
Subject:
Tuft study stills
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
So far so good. I've learned how to break out still pictures from the video.
Using my timeline (I took a stop watch with me on the flight) I took stills
from each of the speed ranges I studied. To the extent possible I tried to
be random in the selection so I didn't cherry pick a shot to match my
conclusions.
If anyone on the forum is an experienced Movie Maker user and you have any
tips, please contact me off forum, otherwise, please don't laugh at my
bumbling. :-)
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Tuft study stills
At 03:24 PM 11/5/2009, Richard Girard wrote:
>So far so good. I've learned how to break out still pictures from the
>video. Using my timeline (I took a stop watch with me on the flight) I
>took stills from each of the speed ranges I studied. To the extent
>possible I tried to be random in the selection so I didn't cherry pick a
>shot to match my conclusions.
Interesting. It looks like you have smoother airflow at lower speed (i.e.
higher AOA) than higher speed. The flow seems to be disturbed form
surfaces farther forward, so I'd say the flow over the windshield is
smoother at higher AOA (which make sense from what I know of the Kolb
windshield shape).
-Dana
--
"I'm a lawyer." "Honest?" "No, the usual kind."
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
Hi List=2C
I am a long time reader of the list. This is my second posting. The first t
ime I posted a question on this list=2C I ended up buying a Kolb F/S2.
I have had the plane since May=2C 2009. It is in fair to good condition. I
have been taking flying lessons in a tail wheel. I am making some adjustmen
t to the plane and minor repairs. I have had my first =93Annual=94 with the
FAA inspector. Some of the things I need to do is mark the CHT and EGT wit
h operating range and limits. I read online that the Maximum RPM for the 50
3 is 6800.
My plane has a Rotax 503 DCDI with the oil injection. It has a =93B=94 bo
x with a 3 blade IVO propeller.
Could someone with a similar setup tell me what the operating limits are?
Thanks=2C
Kurt
Kolb F/S2 Rotax 503
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re:
At 07:13 PM 11/5/2009, K I wrote:
>I have had the plane since May, 2009. It is in fair to good condition. I
>have been taking flying lessons in a tail wheel. I am making some
>adjustment to the plane and minor repairs. I have had my first "Annual"
>with the FAA inspector. Some of the things I need to do is mark the CHT
>and EGT with operating range and limits. I read online that the Maximum
>RPM for the 503 is 6800.
>
>My plane has a Rotax 503 DCDI with the oil injection. It has a "B" box
>with a 3 blade IVO propeller.
>
> Could someone with a similar setup tell me what the operating limits are?
If you bought the plane already flying, the operating limits should have
been specified by the original builder in the original operating limitations.
-Dana
--
Welcome to the Federal Bureau for Reducing Bureaucracy!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
From:
Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
503 limits
Kurt, CHT normal 355 -430 F Max 480 F EGT normal 860 - 1080 F Max 1200
F Lanny FSII
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject:
Re: 503 limits
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
http://www.rotax-owner.com/
will give you operators manuals as well.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: Lanny Fetterman
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 503 limits
Kurt, CHT normal 355 -430 F Max 480 F EGT normal 860 - 1080 F Max
1200
F Lanny FSII
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/05/09 07:37:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com>
Subject:
: Kolb-List:
Date:
Nov 05, 2009
Dana=2C You are correct. It should have.
Date: Thu=2C 5 Nov 2009 19:42:22 -0500
From: d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:
At 07:13 PM 11/5/2009=2C K I wrote:
I have had the plane since May=2C 2009. It is in fair to good condition. I
have been taking flying lessons in a tail wheel. I am making some adjustmen
t to the plane and minor repairs. I have had my first =93Annual=94 with the
FAA inspector. Some of the things I need to do is mark the CHT and EGT wit
h operating range and limits. I read online that the Maximum RPM for the 50
3 is 6800.
My plane has a Rotax 503 DCDI with the oil injection. It has a =93B=94 bo
x with a 3 blade IVO propeller.
Could someone with a similar setup tell me what the operating limits are?
If you bought the plane already flying=2C the operating limits should have
been specified by the original builder in the original operating limitation
s.
-Dana
-- Welcome to the Federal Bureau for Reducing Bureaucracy!
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Subject:
Tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Okay, here it is. Dancing yarn and more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
Rick Girard
To archive of not to archive, that is the question
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
info
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Got a question. Some time ago, some gentleman posted a web site to obtain
the rubber boots for carbs at a substantial discount. I marked it but it is
not there any more. Can someone tell me where to get the rubber boots? I
will need some for my rotaxs and a friend needs some for his hurse (horse
hurz hurts herse) engine. Thanks. Also, does anyone have any info on the
geo engine mounted on a Kolb? How about other aircraft? Titan? He is
looking to change from the hurse to maybe a geo metrol or something like
that. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb Slingshot 912 uls. zoom zoom
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: info
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Ted, I think this is the company your looking for.
http://jbmindustries.com/index.html
<http://jbmindustries.com/index.html>Rick Girard
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:
>
> Got a question. Some time ago, some gentleman posted a web site to obtain
> the rubber boots for carbs at a substantial discount. I marked it but it is
> not there any more. Can someone tell me where to get the rubber boots? I
> will need some for my rotaxs and a friend needs some for his hurse (horse
> hurz hurts herse) engine. Thanks. Also, does anyone have any info on the
> geo engine mounted on a Kolb? How about other aircraft? Titan? He is
> looking to change from the hurse to maybe a geo metrol or something like
> that. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb Slingshot 912 uls. zoom zoom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Denny Rowe" <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
Subject:
Re: info
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Gary Aman posted that, come on Gary, lets have it. :-)
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: info
>
> Got a question. Some time ago, some gentleman posted a web site to obtain
> the rubber boots for carbs at a substantial discount. I marked it but it
> is
> not there any more. Can someone tell me where to get the rubber boots? I
> will need some for my rotaxs and a friend needs some for his hurse (horse
> hurz hurts herse) engine. Thanks. Also, does anyone have any info on the
> geo engine mounted on a Kolb? How about other aircraft? Titan? He is
> looking to change from the hurse to maybe a geo metrol or something like
> that. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb Slingshot 912 uls. zoom zoom
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
info
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
> He is
> looking to change from the hurse to maybe a geo metrol or something like
> that. Ted Cowan=2C Alabama=2C Kolb Slingshot 912 uls. zoom zoom
Ted=2C
Have your friend contact me off-list=2C and I'd be happy to help him out.
I have the
GEO Metro 3 cylinder (now with turbocharger) mounted to the stock Kolb MkII
I engine mount. I've already taken some photos for another guy that made h
is own GEO engine mount (his initials are MS). Have him call me...573-480-
9802.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
(The engine I think you were trying to spell is Hirth. : )
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Tuft study stills
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Rick,
Interesting indeed. At the slower speeds, the only meaningful disturbance seems
to be near the bulkhead/break just aft of the seats. Other than that, the tufts
don't looks so bad and by the time the airflow gets to the prop area it looks
pretty decent.
At the higher speeds, were you descending or flying straight and level?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
- Confuscius
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271338#271338
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
That is close to what I expected. The break at the wide spot aft of
the door is a significant source of troubled flow.
The upsweep of the tufts at lower speeds is from air converging to the
empty area above. John H and others
who have that area filled would show a different pattern. Thanks for
the good job.
BB
On 6, Nov 2009, at 2:44 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Okay, here it is. Dancing yarn and more.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
>
> Rick Girard
> To archive of not to archive, that is the question
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: info
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Denny,
It's not news any more.JBM is where you go for the good stuff.
G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200a
-----Original Message-----
From: Denny Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
Sent: Fri, Nov 6, 2009 6:42 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: info
Gary Aman posted that, come on Gary, lets have it. :-)
Denny Rowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: info
>
> Got a question. Some time ago, some gentleman posted a web site to obta
in
> the rubber boots for carbs at a substantial discount. I marked it but
it
> is
> not there any more. Can someone tell me where to get the rubber boots?
I
> will need some for my rotaxs and a friend needs some for his hurse (hors
e
> hurz hurts herse) engine. Thanks. Also, does anyone have any info on
the
> geo engine mounted on a Kolb? How about other aircraft? Titan? He is
> looking to change from the hurse to maybe a geo metrol or something like
> that. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb Slingshot 912 uls. zoom zoom
>
>
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:52:00
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
From:
william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: tuft video
Richard- I noticed that at the higher speeds there seemed to be wrinkling o
f the fabric about a foot in front of where the boom tube comes out.- Is
the fabric loose, or is it an indicator of severe turbulence in that area?
- Does the fabric do that on the other side?
-
-------------------------
----------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
----------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
----------------- FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft study stills
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
All done in level flight.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> Interesting indeed. At the slower speeds, the only meaningful disturbance
> seems to be near the bulkhead/break just aft of the seats. Other than that,
> the tufts don't looks so bad and by the time the airflow gets to the prop
> area it looks pretty decent.
>
> At the higher speeds, were you descending or flying straight and level?
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
> I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
> - Confuscius
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271338#271338
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Fabric is tight. I haven't filmed the other side so I can't say.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:32 AM, william sullivan
wrote:
> Richard- I noticed that at the higher speeds there seemed to be wrinkling
> of the fabric about a foot in front of where the boom tube comes out. Is
> the fabric loose, or is it an indicator of severe turbulence in that area?
> Does the fabric do that on the other side?
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
> FS 447
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Bob, Coming on winter and the windows have to go back on. I'll shoot another
video and see how it looks then.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:11 AM, robert bean wrote:
> That is close to what I expected. The break at the wide spot aft of the
> door is a significant source of troubled flow.
> The upsweep of the tufts at lower speeds is from air converging to the
> empty area above. John H and others
> who have that area filled would show a different pattern. Thanks for the
> good job.
> BB
>
> On 6, Nov 2009, at 2:44 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Okay, here it is. Dancing yarn and more.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
>
> Rick Girard
> To archive of not to archive, that is the question
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 06, 2009
From:
<jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
Rick G/Gang:
We've known for some time I have dead air at the top center of the windshield where
it joins the center section. Also behind the trailing edge of both doors.
Was able to ascertain this info without tufting, but flew in rain. When the rain
drops stay put, there's not much air moving over them.
A fix for the windshield was a fiberglass faring. TNK laid one up on my mkIII,
finished it up, and shipped it to me. Unfortunately, the fabricator got his
cardinal directions 180 degrees out and built up the inside rather than the outside
of the faring. I flew that trip to Alaska without it.
If we ever get around to it, we will use a faring like the old OH-58 used at the
aft end of the fuselage where it started an abrupt taper to the tailboom, much
like the mkIII. It was a band of sheet metal about two or three inches wide,
stood off the fuselage a couple inches, and ran from the top to the bottom
of the fuselage. One of these days, maybe we'll get to that project.
john h
mkIII
Edwards AFB, CA - A neat place for an aviation buff to hang out.
----- Original Message -----
Okay, here it is. Dancing yarn and more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello,
I am Lucy Reddy.Thanks for informing about new videos on youtube .From many days
I had not visited youtube because of my tight schedule .I have gone through
two links out of three.The videos were awsome .soon i will go with third one .Thankx
for links.
--------
sdram
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271456#271456
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund
Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551-0347
Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: New videos on YouTube !
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
Chris,
The third video showing your house location got me to wondering. Do you have access
to the open water via the creek without having to go under a low bridge?
If so, have you ever considered floats for you Xtra?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
The world is round; it has no point.
- Adrienne E. Gusoff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271545#271545
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: New videos on YouTube !
From:
"ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
Thom,
That's the plan....I am planning on putting Full Lotus floats on her...and I 'm
planning on landing right at the house...should be plenty of room... I need to
sell my 172 first though...
chris ambrose
m3x/jab
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271568#271568
________________________________________________________________________________
Same field as my last post, but recently mowed.
The bumpy ground tries to launch me before I am up to speed but I just bump along
until I have enough speed and then take off. What fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDtQHQ0ZJrw
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271628#271628
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject:
Re: another grass strip takeoff
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
Its a good looking and a good sounding plane. Very nice.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: cristalclear13
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: another grass strip takeoff
Same field as my last post, but recently mowed.
The bumpy ground tries to launch me before I am up to speed but I just
bump along until I have enough speed and then take off. What fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDtQHQ0ZJrw
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271628#271628
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11/07/09 19:39:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: another grass strip takeoff
From:
"ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
Nice job Cristal ! Keep them coming !!
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 78+ hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271645#271645
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I wonder if the
shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have some effect on what the
tufts are doing. If memory serves me right you have a 582 so the prop on the
side of the fuselage that the camera is filming would be moving from the bottom
around towards the wing underside. Standing at the tail, a clockwise rotation.
I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could affect at least
some of the tufting?
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Nov 07, 2009
[quote="rickofudall"]Cool looking rice rocket fairing.
Rick Girard
Rick - Dude - you need to get with it. That was a crotch rocket fairing. I know,
my nephew has one on his Suzuki crotch rocket.
This is a rice rocket. Especially when the Good Lookin' Old Poop is driving it...
Took these yesterday evening, Sweet Thing kidnapped me and took me to the most
incredible Bed & Breakfast you can imagine. The owner's husband left her, she
is doing the B&B thing to try and pay the bills, but is charging almost nothing,
so I told her I would help spread the word, here is her website for this place.
http://peaceofheaventn.weebly.com/
Forgive the non-Kolb related, it looked like a slow evening...
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271651#271651
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140692_large_169.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140712_large_209.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140650_large_719.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look for any
research into how far an a disturbance in front of a rotating prop projects
so I can only speculate.
I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the pod. The
angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as that between the
sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I eyeball, so there is
probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the aft bottom panel combined
with its narrowing toward the rear accounts for most of the upward flow on
the side.
I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I wonder if
> the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have some effect on
> what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right you have a 582 so the
> prop on the side of the fuselage that the camera is filming would be moving
> from the bottom around towards the wing underside. Standing at the tail, a
> clockwise rotation.
> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could affect
> at least some of the tufting?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>
>
> b
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits...
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Richard, Yes, I know it's a fork mounted fairing. Did the crotch rocket
thing in the mid 80's and couldn't keep my fist out of it. Got the
Interceptor up to very high 130's twice before good sense took hold. Sure
was fun at the time, though.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> [quote="rickofudall"]Cool looking rice rocket fairing.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> Rick - Dude - you need to get with it. That was a crotch rocket fairing. I
> know, my nephew has one on his Suzuki crotch rocket.
>
> This is a rice rocket. Especially when the Good Lookin' Old Poop is driving
> it...
>
> Took these yesterday evening, Sweet Thing kidnapped me and took me to the
> most incredible Bed & Breakfast you can imagine. The owner's husband left
> her, she is doing the B&B thing to try and pay the bills, but is charging
> almost nothing, so I told her I would help spread the word, here is her
> website for this place.
> http://peaceofheaventn.weebly.com/
>
> Forgive the non-Kolb related, it looked like a slow evening...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271651#271651
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140692_large_169.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140712_large_209.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140650_large_719.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"PCKing" <pc.king(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
solid vs fabric leading edge
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Has anyone built a Kolb with a solid leading edge? The variable airfoil
caused by fabric draping between the ribs can't be good for performance.
Is the difference significant?
________________________________________________________________________________
yes, myself included.
and no, the variable airfoil does not diminish the performance. In
fact it does reduce the wing thickness (and drag) by a small percentage.
and IMO likely helps retain air attachment.
I have leading edge tin on the top surface only. It does reinforce
the ribs without the use of additional L struts.
BB
On 8, Nov 2009, at 7:56 AM, PCKing wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone built a Kolb with a solid leading edge? The variable
> airfoil caused by fabric draping between the ribs can't be good for
> performance. Is the difference significant?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
From:
william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge
- My original Firestar was built with a solid leading edge.- The builde
r used 12' wide thin aluminum, maybe flashing, over the Kolb ribs.- This
was used on the plane up to January, 2008 when it was flipped over during a
storm- tie down broke.- My replacement wings have the standard Kolb "sta
rving horse" design.- I inquired to the List about it, and was told that
it makes no noticeable difference in performance.- The solid edge was tri
ed about the middle to late 1980's.- If I remember the responses correctl
y, it was used more for appearances.
-
-------------------------
---------------------- Bill Sul
livan
-------------------------
-----------------------Windso
r Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
---------------------- FS 447
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
An experiment that wouldn't be too difficult:
screw a rectangular flat plate on the bottom of the fuselage beginning
at the wide spot and extending to the prop
plane of rotation. Tuft check sides again.
BB
On 8, Nov 2009, at 5:48 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look
> for any research into how far an a disturbance in front of a
> rotating prop projects so I can only speculate.
> I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the
> pod. The angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as
> that between the sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I
> eyeball, so there is probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the
> aft bottom panel combined with its narrowing toward the rear
> accounts for most of the upward flow on the side.
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of
> the airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies
> down a little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I
> wonder if the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have
> some effect on what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right
> you have a 582 so the prop on the side of the fuselage that the
> camera is filming would be moving from the bottom around towards the
> wing underside. Standing at the tail, a clockwise rotation.
> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could
> affect at least some of the tufting?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
> b
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Bob, I think my idea is easier. :-) All I have to do it make another camera
mount for the other side.
Rick
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:31 AM, robert bean wrote:
> An experiment that wouldn't be too difficult:
> screw a rectangular flat plate on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at
> the wide spot and extending to the prop
> plane of rotation. Tuft check sides again.
> BB
>
> On 8, Nov 2009, at 5:48 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look for any
> research into how far an a disturbance in front of a rotating prop projects
> so I can only speculate.
> I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the pod. The
> angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as that between the
> sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I eyeball, so there is
> probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the aft bottom panel combined
> with its narrowing toward the rear accounts for most of the upward flow on
> the side.
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
> airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
> little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I wonder
>> if the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have some effect on
>> what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right you have a 582 so the
>> prop on the side of the fuselage that the camera is filming would be moving
>> from the bottom around towards the wing underside. Standing at the tail, a
>> clockwise rotation.
>> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could affect
>> at least some of the tufting?
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> b
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Solid vs fabric leading edge
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
I found NACA TN 428 "CHARACTERISTICS OF AN AIRFOIL AS AFFECTED BY FABRIC
SAG" dated 1932. Here's the summary.
"The results of these tests indicate that the usual
sagging of the wing covering between ribs has a very small
effect on the aerodynamic characteristics of an airfoil."
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
I make a prediction for the right side tufts. They will point uphill same
as the left side, steeper with more power. I have a test suggestion, after
you repeat your tests, add this one or two, low or no power, get the speeds
by descending to see what the tufts are doing. Yes, there seems to be a lot
of turbulence indicated behind the cabin. If that turbulence stays there
even with low/idle power setting, it would rule out prop pulsing, yes?
Herb Graff
Mark III, 246KT
In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:35:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:
I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a little
I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: Tuft video
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Already done that Herb, the landing shot was done with the engine at idle.
Figure at 60 mph that's what, 85 feet per second give or take, I can't see a
shock wave, turbulence, whatever, off the prop extending forward against
that, but I won't know until I film it. I'll have to think about doing an
engine out landing. If I do, I'll borrow the wife's little camera and film
both sides at the same time. I guess if I shoot for the middle of the field
I can do it without seat cushion damage.
Now if this wind would just lay off.
Rick
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:29 PM, wrote:
> I make a prediction for the right side tufts. They will point uphill same
> as the left side, steeper with more power. I have a test suggestion, after
> you repeat your tests, add this one or two, low or no power, get the speeds
> by descending to see what the tufts are doing. Yes, there seems to be a lot
> of turbulence indicated behind the cabin. If that turbulence stays there
> even with low/idle power setting, it would rule out prop pulsing, yes?
>
> Herb Graff
> Mark III, 246KT
>
>
> In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:35:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:
>
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
> airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
> little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
For Sale Samsung I8000 Omnia II 16GB Unlocked Gsm Phone.
From:
"fzak97" <fzak97(at)stafi.net>
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Outstanding Promo: Buy 2 Products And Get 1 Free Product.
Welcome to YAZCK LLC, one of the leading online resellers and distributor of various
consumer electronics. We have operation centres in North America and Finland,
which allows us to offer most updated products at the most competitive prices.
Our strategic warehouse located in WEMBLEY, UK enable us to provide very
fast delivery service to all global regions.
We take the service we provide to our customers very seriously, you can be rest
assured that you will receive the best service, products and prices when dealing
with YAZCK LLC.
Please Note: You can Add Us on Yahoo Messenger (yazckllc(at)yahoo.com) to chat with
us.
For more information you can always contact us at yazckllc(at)yahoo.com
Below Are List Of Products We Stock For Sale:
Nokia phones:-
Nokia 2690
Nokia 2220
Nokia 1800
Nokia 1616
Nokia 1280
Nokia 6788
Nokia N97 mini
Samsung phones:-
Samsung S5560
Samsung S5630C
Samsung I5700 Galaxy Spica
Samsung E1390
Samsung E1160
Samsung E2130
Samsung E1130B
Motorola phones:-
Motorola MILESTONE
Motorola WX180
Motorola WX160
Motorola Motocubo A45
Motorola DEXT MB220
Motorola ROKR ZN50
Motorola Karma QA1
Sony Ericsson phones:-
Sony Ericsson XPERIA X10
Sony Ericsson XPERIA X2
Sony Ericsson Jalou D&G edition
Sony Ericsson Jalou
Sony Ericsson T715
Sony Ericsson C901 GreenHeart
Sony Ericsson Naite
LG phones:-
LG KM555E
LG GD510 Pop
LG BL20 New Chocolate
LG GW620
LG GM750
LG BL40 New Chocolate
LG GW300
Apple phones:-
Apple iPhone 3GS
Apple iPhone 3G
Apple iPhone
HTC phones:-
HTC HD2
HTC Pure
HTC Tattoo
HTC Touch2
HTC Hero
HTC Ozone
HTC Snap
i-mate phones:-
i-mate 810-F
i-mate Ultimate 9502
i-mate Ultimate 8502
i-mate JAMA 201
i-mate JAMA 101
i-mate JAMA
i-mate Ultimate 9150
O2 phones:-
O2 XDA Serra
O2 XDA Guide
O2 XDA Zest
O2 XDA Ignito
O2 XDA Stellar
O2 XDA Orbit II
O2 XDA Comet
Eten phones:-
Eten glofiish X610
Eten glofiish V900
Eten glofiish X900
Eten glofiish DX900
Eten glofiish M750
Eten glofiish M810
Eten glofiish X650
HP phones:-
iPAQ Voice Messenger
iPAQ Data Messenger
iPAQ 910c
iPAQ 610c
iPAQ 514
iPAQ rw6815
iPAQ rw6828
Asus phones:-
Asus P835
Asus nuvifone G60
Asus nuvifone M20
Asus P565
Asus P552w
Asus P320
Asus M930
Gigabyte phones:-
Gigabyte GSmart MS802
Gigabyte GSmart MW702
Gigabyte GSmart S1200
Gigabyte GSmart MS820
Gigabyte GSmart MS800
Gigabyte GSmart MW998
Gigabyte GSmart MW700
Acer phones:-
Acer Liquid
Acer neoTouch
Acer beTouch E200
Acer beTouch E100
Acer beTouch E101
Acer DX650
Acer M900
Palm phones:-
Palm Pixi
Palm Pre
Palm Treo Pro
Palm Centro
Palm Treo 500v
Palm Treo 750
Palm Treo 680
BlackBerry phones:-
BlackBerry Bold 9700
BlackBerry Storm2 9520
BlackBerry Storm2 9550
BlackBerry Curve 8520
BlackBerry Tour 9630
BlackBerry Curve 8900
BlackBerry Storm 9500
T-Mobile phones:-
T-Mobile Pulse
T-Mobile G2 Touch
T-Mobile myTouch 3G
T-Mobile Dash 3G
T-Mobile MDA Vario V
T-Mobile MDA Compact V
T-Mobile Sidekick LX 2009
You can get the best prices and exclusive offers on a huge range of products by
Shopping with us, we also specialize in a wide range of products such as laptops,
cell phones, plasma & lcd tv, mp3 & mp4 players, video games console, digital
cameras, dvd players (E.T.C) at discounted rates.
All our products are factory sealed with complete accessories and covered by a
one-year warranty from Manufacturer, we offer our customers hassle-free returns/exchanges.
If for any reason you are not satisfied with an item purchased from
us, please return the item within 21 days* of receipt for an exchange or refund.
Give us prior notice to any questions at yazckllc(at)yahoo.com and we will be happy
to assist you.
Your's Sincerely,
Yazck LLC / Mr. Fahim S. Karzai
Email: yazckllc(at)yahoo.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271730#271730
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge
In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:06:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:
My replacement wings have the standard Kolb "starving horse" design.
Hi Bill,
That's the first time I've heard of Homers wing looking like a "starved
horse", but it's a great analogy. hehehe
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Subject:
Trim System Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built Kolb
Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of the
control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from the front
mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for about a good 3
seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings all the
way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the spring
system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first notch, now
the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs with
slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get more into the
center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are there
better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way
of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for
the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment
tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about
how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: For Sale Samsung I8000 Omnia II 16GB Unlocked Gsm Phone.
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Outstanding Promo: Buy 2 Products And Get 1 Free Product.>>
Is Matte letting adverts in now? Can things be that bad?.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: solid vs fabric leading edge
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Rick,
Did the 1932 study indicate the nature of the slight difference in performance?
I.E., stall slower/higher, cruise speed slower higher, etc.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
- Isaac Asimov
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271877#271877
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: For Sale Samsung I8000 Omnia II 16GB Unlocked Gsm Phone.
pj.ladd wrote:
>
>
> Outstanding Promo: Buy 2 Products And Get 1 Free Product.>>
>
> Is Matte letting adverts in now? Can things be that bad?.
>
> Pat
Highly likely that it just slipped past his spam filters. It happens so
rarely that it really stands out when you see one. Big contrast with
lists on sites like Yahoo, where the ads take up more room than the emails.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Herb
Kolbs are by definition unstable, easy to control but but need to be
flown all the time. First try adjusting the trim cable to find that
point where your plane will fly more level in a notch. It would really
be nice to be able to fold maps in flight on cross countries. So far I
have been able to trim the plane for 3-5 seconds but that has been it.
Even with good stability thermals tend to upset things a bunch. As with
any design there are trade offs and stability is one that falls short.
Try the softer springs and let us know. I have also seen a really good
elevator trim tab system that was purchased from Rans Aircraft that
might also help. Maybe Steve Spence could share his success with his
Rans trim system.
In Florida for the winter with my airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:43 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built
Kolb Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of
the control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from
the front mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for
about a good 3 seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder
trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings
all the way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the
spring system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first
notch, now the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in
between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs
with slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get
more into the center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are
there better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Subject:
Re: solid vs fabric leading edge
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
No, it was a wind tunnel investigation.
Rick
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> Did the 1932 study indicate the nature of the slight difference in
> performance? I.E., stall slower/higher, cruise speed slower higher, etc.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
> Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's
> troublesome.
> - Isaac Asimov
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271877#271877
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
[quote="rickofudall"]Herb, I have a Rotax 582. When I rebuilt the airplane I incorporate
a mix of the 582 and 618 mounts to get the thrust line down as low as
I could get it while running a 66" prop (the original factory recommendation).
Then I added a 1/4" spacer at the rear to change the angle of the thrust line
to the wing. I have about 1 1/2" of clearance from prop tip to boom. Seems
to work for me. I'll send you pics if you'd like.
Rick Girard
Rick, I am also using a 582 but with the stock thrust line. So you have raised
the aft end 1/4" and the changes you have noticed are...? Details please? And
the 582 and the 618 mounts differ how?
Thanks,
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271969#271969
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Herb ,I had the Rans elevator trim on my KXP and it would fly straight and
level for several minuets but the bank trim -would have to be controlled
by my Knees the Kolbs are unstable -and need to be flown all the time but
the pitch can be trimmed I was using the elevator trim to take pictures an
d it worked well.Just my 2cents .-Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider
Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________
_________________=0AFrom: "HGRAFF(at)aol.com" <HGRAFF(at)aol.com>=0ATo: kolb-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, November 9, 2009 1:43:23 AM=0ASubject: Kolb-Lis
t: Trim System Question=0A=0A=0A=0AWith about 3 hours of initial test flyin
g completed on a plans built Kolb Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least i
n 2 axes. When I let go of the control stick, the kolb flies nice and level
and the long yarn from the front mounted antenna flies perfectly straight.
I can let-go for about a good 3 seconds. This was achieved with both Ail
eron and Rudder trim tabs.=0A=0AExcept there is a slight pitch control prob
lem. With pitch settings all the way to the front, (at which point some sla
ck just started in the spring system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. Wh
en set to the first notch, now the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need s
ome setting in between.=0A=0AI'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace t
he two hefty springs with slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitche
n longer to get more into the center of the operating settings.=0A=0ASo my
question:- Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are there bette
r (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result. =0A=0AI will appreciate-
==== =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Herb,
Pitch trim sensitivity really should not be a problem.As you burn off fuel
or when you add a passenger,the trim requirements will change.It also cha
nges with power settings due to the high thrust line.Under certain conditi
ons you may even add 1 notch of flap to bring the nose down as I have done
when heavy with fuel and light with passengers.Some times just releasing
the flap handle from it's fully retracted notch and letting it float has
a trimming effect.The effort required to maintain level flight with stick
pressure is very light.
You can make those changes to the spring system or even a trim tab on
the elevator,but I would wait until you can carry a passenger or put a sa
nd bag in the right seat and see how it affects the trim before making any
mods to the system.
G.Aman MK-3 C Jabiru 2200A 490hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 1:43 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built Kolb
Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of the co
ntrol
stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from the front moun
ted
antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for about a good 3 seconds.
This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings all th
e
way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the spring sy
stem),
the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first notch, now the nos
e
wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs with
slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get more into
the
center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are
there better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Rick,
4 weeks and counting till departure.How did the van handle the trip with
the trailer?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 11:50 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
Herb
Kolbs are by definition unstable, easy to control but but need to be flown
all the time. First try adjusting the trim cable to find that point where
your
plane will fly more level in a notch. It would really be nice to be able
to fold
maps in flight on cross countries. So far I have been able to trim the pla
ne for
3-5 seconds but that has been it. Even with good stability thermals tend
to
upset things a bunch. As with any design there are trade offs and stabilit
y
is one that falls short. Try the softer springs and let us know. I have al
so
seen a really good elevator trim tab system that was purchased from Rans
Aircraft that might also help. Maybe Steve Spence could share his success
with
his Rans trim system.
In Florida for the winter with my airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:43
AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Trim System
Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built Kolb
Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of the
control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from the
front
mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for about a good
3
seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings all
the way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the spr
ing
system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first notch,
now
the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs with
slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get more in
to the
center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are
there better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
Gary
I have a Toyota Sienna (van) pulling my VW powered MKIIIC from Michigan
to Florida in a enclosed custom trailer. It went very well. At times I
would forget the trailer was there. I had to slow to 60-65 and lock the
transmission in forth gear (no over drive). The main issue is wind if it
gets strong the trailer gets pushed around bad. With the winds Ida is
kicking up right now it would be no fun at all and might even have to
stop. We normally take two days but with the trailer we did it in just
over two and a half. My wife drove about 1/3 of the trip and was
surprised how well it went.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
Rick,
4 weeks and counting till departure.How did the van handle the trip
with the trailer?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 11:50 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
Herb
Kolbs are by definition unstable, easy to control but but need to be
flown all the time. First try adjusting the trim cable to find that
point where your plane will fly more level in a notch. It would really
be nice to be able to fold maps in flight on cross countries. So far I
have been able to trim the plane for 3-5 seconds but that has been it.
Even with good stability thermals tend to upset things a bunch. As with
any design there are trade offs and stability is one that falls short.
Try the softer springs and let us know. I have also seen a really good
elevator trim tab system that was purchased from Rans Aircraft that
might also help. Maybe Steve Spence could share his success with his
Rans trim system.
In Florida for the winter with my airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: HGRAFF(at)aol.com
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:43 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Trim System Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built
Kolb Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of
the control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from
the front mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for
about a good 3 seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder
trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings
all the way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the
spring system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first
notch, now the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in
between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs
with slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get
more into the center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are
there better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
From:
Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Sorry, I guessed I missed that part about the difference. It seems to take a
lot of the pitch change with throttle out of it. The big difference I
remember without getting the plans out is the the vibration dampers are
mounted with the deep side up on the 618 mount and the short side is up with
the 582.
Okay, I got the plans out and checked. Originally my plane had a version of
the mount that was a bastardized version of the 618 mount, short side of the
isolator up, a 2" spacer tube and shim plates. Now it just has the isolators
long side up and no tubes. The overall effect was to lower the engine about
2", although it is still about 1" higher than the plans call out for the
582.
I seem to remember it was John H. who mentioned changing the thrust line by
putting shims between the engine plate and the aft isolators, but my memory
could be playing tricks there, too.
Rick
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> [quote="rickofudall"]Herb, I have a Rotax 582. When I rebuilt the airplane
> I incorporate a mix of the 582 and 618 mounts to get the thrust line down as
> low as I could get it while running a 66" prop (the original factory
> recommendation). Then I added a 1/4" spacer at the rear to change the angle
> of the thrust line to the wing. I have about 1 1/2" of clearance from prop
> tip to boom. Seems to work for me. I'll send you pics if you'd like.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> Rick, I am also using a 582 but with the stock thrust line. So you have
> raised the aft end 1/4" and the changes you have noticed are...? Details
> please? And the 582 and the 618 mounts differ how?
> Thanks,
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271969#271969
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Yes Rick,
I'd surely would like to see your engine setup. Please send direct to my
Email. Our Kolb, (a small club project, though I'm the only one flying it so
far), uses a 3/8 interposer plate to translate the hole patterns, for an
otherwise standard engine mount. This plate also has heat bent tabs to mount
the muffler to. It took two MAP Gas torches to apply enough heat for the
bending operation. A not very good picture of our engine arrangement is here:
If I get a chance I'll take a better close-up of the mount, though there is
really nothing extraordinary about it.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
In a message dated 11/9/2009 1:05:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com writes:
Herb, I have a Rotax 582. When I rebuilt the airplane I incorporate a mix
of the 582 and 618 mounts to get the thrust line down as low as I could get
it while running a 66" prop (the original factory recommendation). Then I
added a 1/4" spacer at the rear to change the angle of the thrust line to
the wing. I have about 1 1/2" of clearance from prop tip to boom. Seems to
work for me. I'll send you pics if you'd like.
Rick Girard
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Chris,
Thanks for your input on the trim. Hey, several minutes with hands free is
the very most one can expect. I can just see myself with a bunchie cord
around the stick and my right knee, my arms crossed and a silly smile on my
face. That Rans elevator trim is intriguing. Have you pictures of you
installation or basic references to it. The Kolb is back under roof for the
winter and there could be time for an appropriate mod.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
In a message dated 11/9/2009 7:58:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
capedavis(at)yahoo.com writes:
Herb ,I had the Rans elevator trim on my KXP and it would fly straight and
level for several minuets but the bank trim would have to be controlled
by my Knees the Kolbs are unstable and need to be flown all the time but
the pitch can be trimmed I was using the elevator trim to take pictures and
it worked well.Just my 2cents .
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
From:
chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Herb , did not take any pics of my installation--- but you can see th
e product athttp://www.shoprans.com/ElevatorTrim.asp-I think the trim tab
was 24 inches and I cut it down to 12 inches the trim wheel was just like
the "old cessna" trim wheel I mounted the wheel just ahead of-the throttl
e-it was an easy and quick-job and worked well for me for a few years u
ntill I sold the KXP. probably still isChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlid
er Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: "HGRAFF(at)aol.com" <HGRAFF(at)aol.com>=0ATo: kolb-l
ist(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, November 9, 2009 9:40:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: K
olb-List: Trim System Question=0A=0AChris,=0A=0AThanks for your input on th
e trim. Hey, several minutes with hands free is the very most one can expec
t. I can just see myself with a bunchie cord around the stick and my right
knee, my arms crossed and a silly smile on my face.-That Rans elevator tr
im is intriguing. Have you pictures of you installation or basic -referen
ces to it.-The Kolb is back under roof for the winter and there-could b
e time for an appropriate mod.=0A=0AHerb Graff=0AKolb Mark III 246KT=0A=0AI
n a message dated 11/9/2009 7:58:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, capedavis@y
ahoo.com writes:=0AHerb ,I had the Rans elevator trim on my KXP and it woul
d fly straight and level for several minuets but the bank trim -would hav
e to be controlled by my Knees the Kolbs are unstable -and need to be flo
wn all the time but the pitch can be trimmed I was using the elevator trim
to take pictures and it worked well.Just my 2cents .-Chris Davis=0A>KXP 5
03 492 hrs=0A>Glider Pilot=0A>Disabled from crash building Firefly =0A _
-========================
==== =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Nick Cassara" <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Subject:
"Starved horse" or "Solid"......
Date:
Nov 09, 2009
Hello Kolbsters,
I am not an engineer of any type, but it is hard for me to believe that if
the numbers were run that the solid wing would not out lift the starved
horse wing. It is my understanding that the thickness of the wing is one of
the factors that affect how much a wing can lift. That said, the different
may not be that great.
Clear skies,
Nick Cassara
Proto-type Kolbra Under reconstruction
Palmer, Alaska
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
I have changed the thrust line on my MK111c several times. I have lifted
the front of the engine up and then put it back and lifted the back up,I
have not moved it more than a third { 8 mm } of a inch at either end at
any time.The changes have made very little difference. The engine is
pitched forward a little now as that gives me more clearance at the
back of the pod and boom for the propeller . The intention was to
reduce noise .The only difference I can fell with this set up is that if
you reduce power slowly the nose of the kolb will lift slightly before
dropping . Its made so little difference that I have not bothered to
change it for the last 200hrs of flying .
Downunder
MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Trim System Question
Sorry, I guessed I missed that part about the difference. It seems to
take a lot of the pitch change with throttle out of it. The big
difference I remember without getting the plans out is the the vibration
dampers are mounted with the deep side up on the 618 mount and the short
side is up with the 582.
Okay, I got the plans out and checked. Originally my plane had a
version of the mount that was a bastardized version of the 618 mount,
short side of the isolator up, a 2" spacer tube and shim plates. Now it
just has the isolators long side up and no tubes. The overall effect was
to lower the engine about 2", although it is still about 1" higher than
the plans call out for the 582.
I seem to remember it was John H. who mentioned changing the thrust
line by putting shims between the engine plate and the aft isolators,
but my memory could be playing tricks there, too.
Rick
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
[quote="rickofudall"]Herb, I have a Rotax 582. When I rebuilt the
airplane I incorporate a mix of the 582 and 618 mounts to get the thrust
line down as low as I could get it while running a 66" prop (the
original factory recommendation). Then I added a 1/4" spacer at the rear
to change the angle of the thrust line to the wing. I have about 1 1/2"
of clearance from prop tip to boom. Seems to work for me. I'll send you
pics if you'd like.
Rick Girard
Rick, I am also using a 582 but with the stock thrust line. So you
have raised the aft end 1/4" and the changes you have noticed are...?
Details please? And the 582 and the 618 mounts differ how?
Thanks,
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271969#271969
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: For Sale Samsung I8000 Omnia II 16GB Unlocked Gsm Phone.
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
Highly likely that it just slipped past his spam filters.>>
Let us hope so. The ad. free environment makes a pleasant change from some.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject:
Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
Herb
If there is a way that you can move the trim spring closer to the pivot
point on the elevator control,,, (less mechanical advantage) then it
would require more movement on the trim control to achieve the desired
results. This would give you more set points for trim, and less change
between settings.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Pulling a Kolb Trailer
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
From:
zeprep251(at)AOL.COM
Rick,
Good deal! Hope we can take some day trips this winter.There are quite a
few Kolbers in south Fla.
See you after Thanksgiving!
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 8:53 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Pulling a Kolb Trailer
Gary
I have a Toyota Sienna (van) pulling my VW powered
MKIIIC from Michigan to Florida in a enclosed custom trailer. It went very
well. At times I would forget the trailer was there. I had to slow to 60-6
5 and
lock the transmission in forth gear (no over drive). The main issue is win
d if
it gets strong the trailer gets pushed around bad. With the winds Ida is
kicking
up right now it would be no fun at all and might even have to stop. We nor
mally
take two days but with the trailer we did it in just over two and a half.
My
wife drove about 1/3 of the trip and was surprised how well it went.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From:
zeprep251(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:15
PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim System
Question
Rick,
4
weeks and counting till departure.How did the van handle the trip with
the
trailer?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard & Martha
Neilsen
Sent:
Mon, Nov 9, 2009 11:50 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Trim System
Question
Herb
Kolbs are by definition unstable, easy to control but but need to be
flown all the time. First try adjusting the trim cable to find that poin
t
where your plane will fly more level in a notch. It would really be nice
to be
able to fold maps in flight on cross countries. So far I have been able
to
trim the plane for 3-5 seconds but that has been it. Even with good stab
ility
thermals tend to upset things a bunch. As with any design there are trad
e
offs and stability is one that falls short. Try the softer springs and
let us
know. I have also seen a really good elevator trim tab system that was
purchased from Rans Aircraft that might also help. Maybe Steve Spence co
uld
share his success with his Rans trim system.
In Florida for the winter with my airplane.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
-----
Original Message -----
From:
HGRAFF(at)aol.com
kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent:
Monday, November 09, 2009 1:43 AM
Subject:
Kolb-List: Trim System Question
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built
Kolb Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go
of the
control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from th
e
front mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for about
a good 3 seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder trim
tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings all
the way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the
spring
system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first notch
, now
the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs with
slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get more
into
the center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or
are there better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
Rick
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
The intention was to reduce noise >>
Hi there,
Did it? The farmer who owns the field I fly from is constantly
wickering on about the noise from the Kolb. He says it is worse that the
Challenger I used to have and that got him pretty hot under the collar.
Noise seems to be built in with a pusher configuration. Not noise in the
cockpit, that can be dealt with by decent headphones , but the noise
which causes complaints from the neighbours.
i cocked up a landing the other day and decided on another circuit for
practice. I am reluctant to climb out at less than full throttle so went
out at full chat and the farmer was waiting for me when i landed,
looking down his nose. Of course he flies a Cub which makes no more
noise than a sewing machine.
Does a larger a gap between the trailing edge and the prop help?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 10, 2009
From:
Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
At 10:23 AM 11/10/2009, russ kinne wrote:
>I do not have a Kolb yet but am a photographer, and need to have
>hands-free flying for more than couple seconds. Now with good elevator
>trim and the stick clamped between my legs, how long do you think I can
>take my hands off the controls?
My UltraStar is reasonably pitch stable, though all I have to do is reach
forward to adjust the radio and it pitches down, and vice versa. Pitch
stability is mainly a matter of sufficiently forward C.G. It's in roll
that it's not stable at all, unsurprising because of lack of dihedral.
-Dana
--
If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be pregnant.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 11, 2009
Hard to tell when you are inside. those on the ground have never said it
made less noise , but that the noise had changed. it lost that chop chop
beat. {sounded less like a helicopter} As far as farmers go its been
sort of agreed that farm animals get used to the noise very quickly ,so
if the same aircraft fly's out of the same place even race horses soon
learn to ignore
the sound ,its the visiting aircraft that cause the problems even if
they are super quite super cubs.Take the cocky for a ride , they seem to
be more forgiving after that .The pusher sure does have a beat all of
its own.
Downunder
MK111c
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Trim System Question
The intention was to reduce noise >>
Hi there,
Did it? The farmer who owns the field I fly from is constantly
wickering on about the noise from the Kolb. He says it is worse that the
Challenger I used to have and that got him pretty hot under the collar.
Noise seems to be built in with a pusher configuration. Not noise in
the cockpit, that can be dealt with by decent headphones , but the noise
which causes complaints from the neighbours.
i cocked up a landing the other day and decided on another circuit for
practice. I am reluctant to climb out at less than full throttle so went
out at full chat and the farmer was waiting for me when i landed,
looking down his nose. Of course he flies a Cub which makes no more
noise than a sewing machine.
Does a larger a gap between the trailing edge and the prop help?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 11, 2009
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well!
Please make your Contribution today:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
From:
"Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date:
Nov 11, 2009
[quote="pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com"]The intention was to reduce noise >>
Hi there,
Did it? The farmer who owns the field I fly from is constantly wickering on
about the noise from the Kolb. He says it is worse that the Challenger I used
to have and that got him pretty hot under the collar.
Noise seems to be built in with a pusher configuration. Not noise in the cockpit,
that can be dealt with by decent headphones , but the noise which causes
complaints from the neighbours.
i cocked up a landing the other day and decided on another circuit for practice.
I am reluctant to climb out at less than full throttle so went out at full
chat and the farmer was waiting for me when i landed, looking down his nose.
Of course he flies a Cub which makes no more noise than a sewing machine.
Does a larger a gap between the trailing edge and the prop help?
Pat
> [b]
Pat, don't remember what engine/gearbox you are running, but recently I had a chance
to fly a MKIII with a C box on the 582, and a 3 blade Warp. The 3:1 gearbox
makes the prop noise way less than my 2.58:1 box. Also got to stand on the
ground and listen to it while someone else flew it, and it is much quieter. Apparently
prop noise is the biggie.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272389#272389
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
From:
"Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Nov 12, 2009
Richard,
Pat and I and several other Kolbers have Jabiru power with no PSRU so the prop
noise can get pretty onerous. My full throttle climb at Vy is at 3,000 rpm. The
64" prop means a tip speed of about 570 mph. Not Mach 1 but a good bit faster
than most Rotax powered props.
Pat can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the UK does not permit his
Jabiru powered Kolb to turn the maximum the engine manufacturer allows (3,300
rpm) because of the noise regulations.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country
badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of.
- Confuscious
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272429#272429
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject:
Re: Trim System Question
Date:
Nov 12, 2009
Pat, don't remember what engine/gearbox you are running,>>
Hi Richard,
I have a Jabiru with a 2 blade 157 cms dia.. I had a 503 with a 2 blade on
the Challenger.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Nov 12, 2009
From:
possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: thinner
At 03:15 PM 11/12/2009, you wrote:
>
>It "Does" seem peaceful....(snip)
>
>Thinning the Poly...everything!
>.
> "I" used MEK... bought locally...
>.
> I never noticed anything wrong with using it...?
Me neither, I use it for salad dressing - calms me down,
like Beauford says, "I found that if I did NOT get at least eight
daily hours of intense MEK fumes,
my hands shook so badly I had difficulty pouring gin, or lighting cigars...."
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject:
Re: thinner
Date:
Nov 12, 2009
Is that dinner or the family pet?
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: possums
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: thinner
At 03:15 PM 11/12/2009, you wrote:
>
>It "Does" seem peaceful....(snip)
>
>Thinning the Poly...everything!
>.
