Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-jg

February 19, 2010 - March 03, 2010



       You could also cover different engines in the 60-80 HP range, and 
      finally, the 80-100 HP range.
         
        Mike Welch
         
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 19, 2010
It is a little more difficult to pull flaps when flying left seat in a single center mounted stick MKIII because I have to twist to the right to hold the control stick, then pull the flap handle. john hauck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is part of the reason I installed an inverted L on the center stick, it can be reached very easily with the left hand, for flying,(give my right arm a rest), making adjustments to throttle flaps etc. I am sure it is not as convenient as dual controls, but it was much easier and quicker to build. Boyd Young MKIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 19, 2010
I am sure it is not as convenient as dual controls, but it was much easier and quicker to build. Boyd Young Boyd Y/Gang: If Brother Jim had not designed and built my dual controls (the first for a MKIII) in 1991, I'd being flying with a single center mounted stick. I transitioned into the Factory MKIII with a center mounted single stick. I'd also be flying left seat, instead of right. john hauck titus, alabama MKIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 19, 2010
Do you normally deploy flaps going into your strip? Full flaps? Russ K Russ K/Gang: The only time I do not use full flaps is when the wind is mixed up and strong, especially a cross wind. I am referring to winds most folks don't normally fly Kolbs. To stay current in my airplane I occassionally shoot clean approaches. There is a considerable change in glide and also an attitude change between clean and full flaps in the MKIII. Unlike some on the Kolb List, I do not have a problem with flaps and MKIII's. The MKIII does not instantly quit flying with our without flaps, unless the pilot quits flying the aircraft. It may not float like an Aeronca Champ, but the pilot should fly the MKIII according to the MKIII's glide characteristics. Unless pilot input dictates, the MKIII performs nicely through a full flare to a three point landing. The standard MKIII will usually hit tailwheel first, but the pilot can also control the attitude of the MKIII to prevent this maneuver from becoming exagerated. With the different main gear and true three point stance of my MKIII, I still occassionally overcompensate and hit tailwheel first. My MKIII does not complain when I get overly aggressive. Sometimes it is necessary to get my MKIII on the ground now to get the brakes working. People who do not and will not use full flaps on the MKIII have never learned to fly the airplane. They have mastered only part of this fine little airplane's capabilities. Not that difficult to set the MKIII landing up, clean or full flaps, to land to a point you pick on the ground, just like shooting an approach in a helicopter. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Center control stick mod
Date: Feb 19, 2010
Boyd=2C I am interested in your center control stick attachment. I've decided to stay with the stock MkIII center control stick=2C but I do see a value in having occational left hand control (like for flap controls). For me to pull the flap handle=2C I'd need some way to fly with my left h and=2C briefly. Could you post a photo or two of your handle mod=2C Boyd. Thanks=2C Mike Welch BTW=2C I'm in the process of remounting my main wings. (just got them hung in place) The tailfeathers were mounted a few days ago. This is the firs t time I've ever had the plane "look" so close to being a real airplane. I 've had the MkIII wings mounted before=2C but in skeleton form....no fabric or paint. Plus=2C the wings were drilled and mounted for an aluminum legg ed MkIII Classic. I should be able to finish drilling and installing the front mounting pin s tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Center control stick mod
Date: Feb 19, 2010
Boyd, I am interested in your center control stick attachment. I've decided to stay with the stock MkIII center control stick, but I do see a value in having occasional left hand control (like for flap controls). For me to pull the flap handle, I'd need some way to fly with my left hand, briefly. Could you post a photo or two of your handle mod, Boyd. Thanks, Mike Welch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will take pictures if I remember to take the camera. But in the short term this may help, by removing 2 screws it returns back to stock, minus the 2 holes. The curve made it fit the left hand better, if you make it too long to the left it just seemed to get in the way. I covered the part with the screws with a foam type handlebar grip, and the extinction to the left with a high density grip. (came with the kit) I can fly with either hand, but if the air gets real bumpy seems like I go back to the right hand. I have taken off with the left arm, but all my landings has been with my right. Just more comfortable that way I guess. The left arm cross over is way easier when pulling the flaps. Boyd Young mkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Center control stick mod
Date: Feb 19, 2010
Thanks=2C Boyd. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2010
Hello gang....FWIW....I have 99. 2 hrs of absolutely trouble free hrs on my A-2200 Jabiru engine...I get 1000-1100 fpm climb on my M3X...it is smooth as silk...3-4 gph fuel burn...and basically maintenance free...I change oil and filter every 25 hrs and other that the the first few required adjustments at the beginning,that has been it. No monkey business mounting it or re-drives...just put it on and prop it... Just my 2 cents worth...Hope to see some of you guys this summer ! chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru A-2200 99.2 + hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287315#287315 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 20, 2010
> Jimmy, do you think you may have been over propping the engine not > allowing it to generate the RPM it needed to produce the HP - best to > prop to be in the highest torque area. > jerryb > Jerry, I do not remember the specific max rpms with each individual prop, but all of them turned between 3550 & 3700 at WOT. The max rpm is @ 3600. The 40 HP @ 3600 rpm claim comes from Valley Engineering. I do not know if that # comes from a dyno test session or not, you would have to ask them. Generac rates it at 33 HP continuous, I think that was at 3200 rpm. Regardless of all the power claims, the engine did not have the necessary power required to fly my plane safely. -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287341#287341 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Regardless of all the power claims, the engine did not have the necessary power required to fly my plane safely. -------- Jimmy Young Jimmy Y/Gang: The original FS with a 35 hp 377 Rotax was a hot rod. Flew like a Kolb was designed to fly. I never flew a 28 hp 277 Rotax, but flew with several that performed acceptably on Minimax, and other ULs. I never flew Jimmy's Generac powered FS, but have observed him fly and flown in formation with him. My observations were the engine was anemic and created an unsafe condition when flying from anything other than a long paved airstrip. Just a guess, but the Generac did not come close to producing claimed power. I'd put it in the same category as the weak half VW powered N3 Pup my buddy used to fly years ago. Larry Israel and his buddy tried to convert the 2CV Citroen 2 cyl opposed (similar to the BMW Boxer but much, much less HP) engine, but could not get enough power out of it to make a good alternative 4 stroke UL engine. Not easy to come up with a good, reliable alternative engine to power UL and light planes. If it was, they would be out there available to buy and fly. john hauck Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Subject: Re:Crossed Fingers on purchase - - - Epilogue
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Happy ending today. The original buyer stepped down and I made the purchase! For those you you that have wished me luck...a big THANK YOU. Now I have got a trailer in Sadorus, IL that was custom made in Texas for a Firefly and a Firefly in Ellensburg, WA. Both a long way from Maine! Next month they both will have a new home. I appreciate the encouragement you have provided and your information and thoughts about the purchases too. I will be posting some new questions about my next steps as new topics. bk ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Subject: Texas Red's transport
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Looking at options on getting the FF back east from WA, I came upon the Barnstormer's ad for Texas Red's transport service. He's cheap at $1/mi. on a shared load. That's cheaper than driving out and back. Wonder if anybody ever heard about his service? Aside from references, what should I be asking him? Of course I am asking to find out if it is an enclosed or open trailer. Haven't heard back yet. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Subject: 447 fuel pressure sensor
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
The new FF has a GRT 2002 EIS with altitude sensor. Hal said it is sweet. I looked at Grand Rapids website and saw that they offer a fuel pressure sensor. As I have read in the postings, many of the engine outs are due to fuel starvation. There is a testimonial on their website (see Flying Impressions <http://www.grtavionics.com/blog.aspx>) about an RV owner who turned back when he got a low fuel pressure warning after takeoff. That got me thinking about adding one. What does the group think about that idea? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Subject: Trailering prep ideas
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
My email buddy and FF owner Ken, sent me the following. It is just the kind of tips a first timer like me needs. If you could offer some additional thoughts, I am all ears! "Regarding transport, may I offer some advice? Ask the seller or mover to remove the wings (just one bolt per wing is all it takes). In the folded position, the wings hang on a removable device made of steel rods that fits into a hole in the boom tube and holes on the undersides of the wings. My trip out to Oregon [from factory] took quite a toll on those holes in the wings with the combination of vibrations and steel against aluminum. Other issues for the mover to consider are such things as supporting the boom tube so that the weight is off of the tailwheel, insuring that there's no rubbing or contact between two fabric covered surfaces and prevention of things like the prop (if left attached to the engine) or lift struts (if left attached to the wings) from causing damage to fabric surfaces. I hope this doesn't cause unnecessary worry for you.....just thought I'd pass on some of the lessons I've learned (too often the hard way)." Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Trailer
Date: Feb 20, 2010
I am looking for a trailer for a Fire Fly. Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Trailering prep ideas
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Wings should come off and be strapped to either the sides or ceiling of the trailer. the bottom (nose) of the wings should have carpeting wrapped and broad nylon straps for suspension. I worked for me and several hundred miles of travel with a MkIII. BB On 20, Feb 2010, at 5:21 PM, Bob Kravis wrote: > My email buddy and FF owner Ken, sent me the following. It is just the kind of tips a first timer like me needs. If you could offer some additional thoughts, I am all ears! > "Regarding transport, may I offer some advice? Ask the seller or mover to remove the wings (just one bolt per wing is all it takes). In the folded position, the wings hang on a removable device made of steel rods that fits into a hole in the boom tube and holes on the undersides of the wings. My trip out to Oregon [from factory] took quite a toll on those holes in the wings with the combination of vibrations and steel against aluminum. Other issues for the mover to consider are such things as supporting the boom tube so that the weight is off of the tailwheel, insuring that there's no rubbing or contact between two fabric covered surfaces and prevention of things like the prop (if left attached to the engine) or lift struts (if left attached to the wings) from causing damage to fabric surfaces. I hope this doesn't cause unnecessary worry for you.....just thought I'd pass on some of the lessons I've learned (too often the hard way)." > Bob > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Crossed Fingers on purchase - - - Epilogue
Date: Feb 20, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Great Bob I am happy for you Great to see things are working out for you, always another Kolp Owner /Pilot welcome I am still willing to give you some time Im My Mk3 C if you are interested Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 20, 2010 4:04 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re:Crossed Fingers on purchase - - - Epilogue Happy ending today. The original buyer stepped down and I made the purcha se! For those you you that have wished me luck...a big THANK YOU. Now I have got a trailer in Sadorus, IL that was custom made in Texas for a Firefly and a Firefly in Ellensburg, WA. Both a long way from Maine! Next month they both will have a new home. I appreciate the encouragement you have provided and your information and thoughts about the purchases too. I will be posting some new questions about my next steps as new topics. bk ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2010
Subject: Re:Crossed Fingers on purchase - - - Epilogue
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Absolutely interested. I wanted to make sure the deal was a go before contacting you. BTW I saw your pictures in the photos section. Very nice! Bob On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: > Great Bob I am happy for you Great to see things are working out for you, > always another Kolp Owner /Pilot welcome > I am still willing to give you some time Im My Mk3 C if you are interested > > > *Ellery Batchelder Jr.* > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sat, Feb 20, 2010 4:04 pm > Subject: Kolb-List: Re:Crossed Fingers on purchase - - - Epilogue > > Happy ending today. The original buyer stepped down and I made the > purchase! For those you you that have wished me luck...a big THANK YOU. > > Now I have got a trailer in Sadorus, IL that was custom made in Texas for > a Firefly and a Firefly in Ellensburg, WA. Both a long way from Maine! > Next month they both will have a new home. > > I appreciate the encouragement you have provided and your information and > thoughts about the purchases too. I will be posting some new questions > about my next steps as new topics. > > bk > > * > > =================================== > rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > =================================== > tp://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Subject: Recommendations for Storing a 447
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Seeking instructions for storage (more than a month). I saw the Rotax manual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt oil into carb and through plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
From: "joepilot503" <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 20, 2010
I installed in flight trim wheel from Rans, works great. here is a photo. Brian. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287444#287444 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0016_108.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flap actuator
From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
I started a new topic to help avoid thread drift elsewhere. http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/electric_flap_drive.htm Here's answers to a few questions that have been asked on the list and BC. If the actuator quit responding the flaps would be stuck where they stopped. If this were to happen away from home it would be easy enough to move the flaps manually to the raised position but you would have to land to do so. Todays actuators are very robust with a MTBF cycle life so high John H. probably couldn't even wear one out. I got the actuator itself from http://www.firgelliauto.com We chose the speed and power of the actuator after researching what other planes were using. Probably the closest example was a retrofit system for a Challenger. It used a 80lb force actuator. Ours is 150lb. Calculated needed force is 62.5 lb for the M3X @ 85 mph. The positioning system Im using at the moment is from http://www.speedwaymotors.com It would be possible to used a single momentary on-off-on switch to control the actuator and have infinite positions of the flaps. The position sensor is a in house design and will light one of three LEDs when the actuator position called for is reached. This is still only in schematic form right now. I guess I better get busy Glad you liked the mounting bracket. It could have been made out of aluminum in 15 minutes but working with Carbon is such fun. Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287447#287447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
The early FS w/ 377 I once owned, had plenty of climb performance. One way to guestimate the actual horsepower being delivered from a 4-stroke engine is by knowing the actual fuel consumption rate of the engine under power. Most 4-stroke engines burn in the range of .42 - .48 pounds of gasoline per hour per horsepower (BSFC). Only the most efficient, usually with computer controlled fuel injection get to the low end of this range. There might be some examples that get better than this but I've never seen one. So using these numbers and the actual fuel consumption one can easily come close to the actual HP being produced by the engine. Jimmy once told me that he got on average he got about 2 gph fuel burn rate in the Big Twin when running at around 3400 rpm. Using the thirstiest BSFC of .48 we get only 25 HP being produced at a 2 gph burn rate. At .42 BSFC, it comes to ~28.5 HP. Looks to me like Valley-Engineering and/or Generac have over claimed the engine's HP by a lot. 2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp 2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought. - Simon Cameron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287448#287448 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]Seeking instructions for storage (more than a month). I saw the Rotax manual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt oil into carb and through plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL. Bob > [b] My theory (backed up by most mechanics I've talked to also) is that you only want to put in the engine fluids that normally go into it and nothing else. So, for storage, the best oil to use is just your regular old 2-stroke oil. I always had good results just using that. You'll need to use enough to really coat the innards which usually means a little more than just a teaspoon through the spark plug holes. Course, when you take it out of storage you'll have a fair bit of oil to drain which can be a bit of a mess ;). Then of course you'll want to seal up all the openings as well.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287451#287451 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
I dont know much about long time storing I usually fly as much as I can year round Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 12:44 am Subject: Kolb-List: Recommendations for Storing a 447 Seeking instructions for storage (more than a month). I saw the Rotax man ual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt oil into carb and throu gh plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL. Bob ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
I purchased one of them a while ago and built it into my panel I wasn't ha ppy with it , it is two slow moving & not enough travel you could never la nd with it if you ever had an elevator cable break unless you had a two mi le runway and 800 mile aproach , so I built a new panel and am working on another set up Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: joepilot503 <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 2:23 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim I installed in flight trim wheel from Rans, works great. here is a photo. rian. ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287444#287444 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0016_108.jpg -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
anyone need a trim wheel setup like Brian's that fits a Rans I have one to get rid of it works good but not to my satisfaction Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: joepilot503 <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 2:23 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim I installed in flight trim wheel from Rans, works great. here is a photo. rian. ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287444#287444 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0016_108.jpg -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447
Date: Feb 21, 2010
My theory (backed up by most mechanics I've talked to also) is that you only want to put in the engine fluids that normally go into it and nothing else. LS Gents and Ladies: Recommend following instructions in the operators manual for engine storage: http://www.rotaxflyingclub.com/technical_information/rotaxdocuments.htm All manuals for all Rotax engines, still in service, can be accessed on line. The most critical components of the two stroke engines are crank bearings, in my opinion. A spot of rust on one ball is enough to start a catastrophic crankshaft failure. Next would be piston rings, and anything made of steel or iron. Carb float bowls are also important areas to prepare for storage. When I don't fly frequently, I fill my tank with 100LL. Has long storage life. Cost about the same as a jug of Stabil. The operators manual gives you a complete check list on what and how to do it. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
elleryweld(at)aol.com wrote: > I purchased one of them a while ago and built it into my panel I wasn't happy with it , it is two slow moving & not enough travel you could never land with it if you ever had an elevator cable break unless you had a two mile runway and 800 mile aproach , so I built a new panel and am working on another set up > > Ellery Batchelder Jr. > > > > -- Speaking of that, what are the elevator stick forces like in the Mark III? I remember on my FS II the controls were so light I'd just hold the stick to keep a desired trim. Even on an xcountry I hardly even noticed it lol. But seriously yeah I did occasionally want a trim system anyway as my FS II wanted to fly around 70mph hands-off which was a little hotter than I liked for the engine.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287460#287460 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]The new FF has a GRT 2002 EIS with altitude sensor. Hal said it is sweet. I looked at Grand Rapids website and saw that they offer a fuel pressure sensor. As I have read in the postings, many of the engine outs are due to fuel starvation. There is a testimonial on their website (see Flying Impressions (http://www.grtavionics.com/blog.aspx)) about an RV owner who turned back when he got a low fuel pressure warning after takeoff. That got me thinking about adding one. What does the group think about that idea? Bob > [b] Most of those cautions are probably just warnings against running out of gas.... ;) Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a pulse line. This is so treacherous because the mistake is so easy and non-intuitive to make. I.e. mounting the fuel pump a long ways from the engine looks pretty but leads to this problem. The line has to be a foot or less in length to properly drive the pump and preferably as short as possible. No idea on the fuel pressure sensor as I've never used one. But the EIS you'll love (I had one on my 503-equipped FS II).... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287461#287461 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Speaking of that, what are the elevator stick forces like in the Mark III? I remember on my FS II the controls were so light I'd just hold the stick to keep a desired trim. Even on an xcountry I hardly even noticed it lol. But seriously yeah I did occasionally want a trim system anyway as my FS II wanted to fly around 70mph hands-off which was a little hotter than I liked for the engine.... LS Folks: Stick forces in a MKIII depend on a lot of variables: -Airspeed. -Load. -One or two up. When the MKIII is trimmed correctly, the fore and aft control stick forces are light, as with all the other Kolb models. To increase sensitivity, reliability, and make elevator control input more precise, I installed 1/8" up elevator control cable when I built my mkIII in 1991. At the time, I did not realize how much the 3/32" stretched when flying, especially with a passenger. Many years later, while flying the initial tests on the newest Kolb MKIIIx, I discovered up elevator control cable stretch once again. We changed up to an 1/8" elevator cable and the problem with excessive up elevator control stick travel went away. There is a lot of load on the up elevator cable with pilot only, which goes up quite a bit more when we add a passenger. Untrimmed stick forces qickly become quite evident during cross country flight. One's hand and arm will tell you, plus difficulty maintaining a constant heading and/or altitude. Local flying, one normally will not pick up on slight untrimmed stick forces. If one is flying "a little hotter than I liked for the engine..." I'd reduce power. Any kind of cross country with untrimmed stick pressure would be very difficult, uncomfortable, and unenjoyable. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a pulse line. This is so treacherous because the mistake is so easy and non-intuitive to make. I.e. mounting the fuel pump a long ways from the engine looks pretty but leads to this problem. The line has to be a foot or less in length to properly drive the pump and preferably as short as possible. LS Folks: We don't have a problem with excessive length of Mikuni fuel pump pulse lines on Kolb aircraft unless the builder makes drastic changes in recommended fuel pump location during engine installation. Normally, there is no reason to change locations. Most Kolb builders try to build as cheaply as possibly. Short fuel and pulse lines appeals to those of us that have built Kolbs. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > We don't have a problem with excessive length of Mikuni fuel pump pulse > lines on Kolb aircraft unless the builder makes drastic changes in > recommended fuel pump location during engine installation. Normally, there > is no reason to change locations. Most Kolb builders try to build as > cheaply as possibly. Short fuel and pulse lines appeals to those of us that > have built Kolbs. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama Regardless, if the OP needs to know what that length limitation is on the pulse line, i.e. how to recognize an installation where this mistake _has_ been made, it's about a foot maximum. You can verify this with any Rotax dealer or mechanic, or anyone who's familiar with 2-stroke installations using the pneumatic pump. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287472#287472 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Regardless, if the OP needs to know what that length limitation is on the pulse line, i.e. how to recognize an installation where this mistake _has_ been made, it's about a foot maximum. You can verify this with any Rotax dealer or mechanic, or anyone who's familiar with 2-stroke installations using the pneumatic pump. LS Lucien/Folks: I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building and flying Kolbs for 26 years. Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot. I like to rely on the operators manual for that particular engine and the other publications that are readily available on line from Rotax for free. In the beginning, we had only the operators manual that came with the engine. Information from Rotax was nil. Most of what we learned we learned from failures and by mistakes. I met Gerry Olenik in 1986. He was a tremendous source of info for me and two stroke Rotax engines back then and now. Homer, in 1987, would not sell me a 447 with my FS kit because he felt the engine was too much for the FS. The 447 was the engine that powered the Twinstar two place. I got my engine from Homer, called Gerry and horse traded for a new 447. Times change. Three years later Homer agreed to buy me a 503 to power my FS for a true circumnavigation of the Continental US. The year, 1990, that I had planned the flight was the year I pulled the wings off my FS powered with the 447. Glad I never had a chance to fly the original FS with a 503. Although Homer changed his mind about max power on the FS for me, I think he got that one wrong. However, his decision to give me the 503 was an individual decision for me and not intended for the remaining original FS fleet. Flown in the normal category, a 503 powered original FS would have lasted as long as a 377 powered FS. I would never have flown it like a little old lady. With that extra power, I would have enjoyed every one of those Rotax ponies. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Matco brake fluid specs
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Hi, Folks, I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed our brakes. What kind of fluid does a Matco system require? Thanks, Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287477#287477 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Brett Janaway <brett@xtc-paragliding.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Hi I'm new to this list but I see it is fairly active. I'm a Kolb Twinstar III Classic owner. UK registered, but based in Slovenia most of the time. (G-MYIK) I'm looking to source two replacement fuel tanks. I currently have the 20 litre tanks fitted, but want to increase the size to 25 litre tanks (sorry to quote European standards, but if I quoted gallons we'd get all confused between US and Imperial gallons). Does anyone know a stockist? Preferably in Europe, but in the States otherwise and I can get them shipped over. Dimensions are 250mm x 250mm for width and depth. I've tried the UK importer but several emails and a couple of conversations have resulted in no help. They don't seem to be very good with backup. The manufacturer has also not replied to past emails. Doh. Shame really because the aircraft it great. It's just support that seems to be lacking whenever I need it! Regards Brett www.xTc-Paragliding.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Brett Janaway <brett@xtc-paragliding.com>
Subject: Fuel tanks
Oooops. Sorry for not putting the correct title in the last email..... Regards Brett www.xTc-Paragliding.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > > Lucien/Folks: > > I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building > and flying Kolbs for 26 years. > > Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot. > > Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this specification. I'm talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not minimum. The shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical safety issue. Not everyone who's built a Kolb followed the directions and being able recognize an improper installation is crucial for safety. Putting it another way, it doesn't matter, ultimately, if the manufacturer directed this or that particular installation of the fuel pump. The critical issue is whether the builder _actually did_ follow those directions and obeyed the pulse line length limitations or not. An owner-op needs to know what that limitation is in order to be prepared for that contingency. To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite sales) as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I can personally vouch for the length limit myself). LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287484#287484 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
Date: Feb 21, 2010
I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed our brakes. What kind of fluid does a Matco system require? Thanks, Dave Dave/Gang: I have gotten perfect service from Walmart ATF on several sets of MATCO brakes and the original master cylinders installed 1991. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Date: Feb 21, 2010
> Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot. > > Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this specification. I'm talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not minimum. The shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical safety issue. Not everyone who's built a Kolb followed the directions and being able recognize an improper installation is crucial for safety. Putting it another way, it doesn't matter, ultimately, if the manufacturer directed this or that particular installation of the fuel pump. The critical issue is whether the builder _actually did_ follow those directions and obeyed the pulse line length limitations or not. An owner-op needs to know what that limitation is in order to be prepared for that contingency. To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite sales) as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I can personally vouch for the length limit myself). LS -------- LS Titan II SS WTF are you talking about? I have read the above at least twice and don't understand the argument, or the reason for one. To the best of my recollection every instruction I have ever seen say to keep the pulse line under one foot. I have never heard anyone recommend putting your pulse pump any where but as close to the engine as possible. "The shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical safety issue. " ????????????????? I like to have the last word as much as anyone, but it means much more if it is actually correct. Still cranky! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Date: Feb 21, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > > Lucien/Folks: > > I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building > and flying Kolbs for 26 years. > > Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot. Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this specification. I'm talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not minimum. The shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical safety issue. Not everyone who's built a Kolb followed the directions and being able recognize an improper installation is crucial for safety. To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite sales) as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I can personally vouch for the length limit myself). LS Lucien/Gang: I thought I explained that in this sentence: > Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot. To me, that means we use less than the maximum recommended of 12" or 1'. Must have missed something somewhere. I repeat. I do not doubt your word about the maximum length of the Mikuni fuel pump pulse line of 12". Nor do I need to verify with Ronnie Smith, who is a close friend, or Mark Smith who I do not know. I am no disputing the length of the pulse line. Sorry about that. Decided to take a look at the Rotax Two Stroke Installation Manual before I fired this response back to the Kolb List. Sure enough, on page 15-1, it states the maxium length of the pulse line is 20". I made a mistake. Pays to look in the book, even though I have always cut my pulse lines much shorter than 20". john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Thanks, John. Would we have to flush out the brake fluid that's in the system, or are they compatible? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287493#287493 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
Date: Feb 21, 2010
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp 2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp -------- Thom Riddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average. Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of 29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these numbers essentially correct or am I missing something? Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Matco brake fluid specs
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Hi, Folks, I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed our brakes. What kind of fluid does a Matco system require? Thanks, Dave Matco's paperwork says " this assembly requires mil-h-5606 red aircraft fluid" Boyd Young Mkiii ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447
Date: Feb 21, 2010
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]Seeking instructions for storage (more than a month). I saw the Rotax manual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt oil into carb and through plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL. Bob >>>>>>>>>> How much more than a month? 40 days, I dont know if I would do anything, 6 to 12 months more than a month. Fogging oil would be good. If you can keep the tube out of the crankcase. I would use fuel stabilizer and run things dry while injecting the fogging oil. The fogging oil will coat all the innards to keep the rust at bay Better than the 2 stroke oil. Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > Decided to take a look at the Rotax Two Stroke Installation Manual before I > fired this response back to the Kolb List. > > Sure enough, on page 15-1, it states the maxium length of the pulse line is > 20". I made a mistake. Pays to look in the book, even though I have always > cut my pulse lines much shorter than 20". > > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama There you go, so much for "I don't need to verify the spec" right? That's what it says in my inst. manual as well..... Shorter than that isn't a mistake and actually stlll improves the actuation of the pump. FWIW, back in TX I knew a fellow who had a 447 in a Starlight. the recommended location of the fuel pump was on the firewall behind the engine, resulting in a pulse line length of more than 2'. I don't think he ever had a safe flight in the plane the whole time he flew it and had engine bogging virtually every time he went up. The Kolb recommended installation for the FS II I had was well within this specification. I never had trouble with mine as a result. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287497#287497 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
Date: Feb 21, 2010
So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Boyd Young MkIII Boyd Y/Gang: For my 80 hp 912, 4 gph equaled 5800 rpm or about 75% power which is 60 hp. Don't hold me to those figures. I did it in my 70 year old head. I can see 95 hp with my 912S. It burns 5 gph at 5800 rpm which is 75% power or 71 hp. That is interesting. I am cruising with 11 more hp at 5800 rpm burning a gallon more an hour and seeing only a few mph increase in cruise speed. However, it is worth the extra fuel burn to have the extra power when I need and want it. john hauck mkIII titus, alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Boyd, 912 UL engines are rated at 79 hp continuous at WOT and 5,500 RPM. A normal cruise power setting of 75% x 79 hp = 59.25 HP. 59.25 hp x .42 = 24.88 lbs/hr. / 6 lbs/gal = 4.15 gph. At .42 BSFC 4 gph is about 72-73% power or about 57 HP. At higher density altitudes it takes more RPM to get the same HP output compared to lower density altitudes. If a 912UL engine is propped for WOT at 5,500 RPM at around 8,000' density altitude, then WOT at that altitude will be producing approximately 75% power, which is the maximum power available in a normally aspirated engine at that density altitude. I normally cruise my Slingshot at 80 mph TAS and at that airspeed in the 2,000'- 4,000' density altitudes in which I fly mostly during the summer, I burn roughly 3.8 gph. If the Jabiru has a BSFC of .42 (as advertised), then my typical flight is at 67-68% power. 3.8 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 = 54.28 HP which is about 67-68% of 80 HP which is the max continuous rated HP for this engine at 3,300 RPM. FWIW, my typical cruise speed is a little over 2,700 RPM. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. - Michel de Montaigne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287500#287500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Ooops. Forgot to mention. Our engines are rated at max power at sea level at standard conditions. i.E. 59F at 29.92" Hg. The loss of power as density altitude increases is a little over 3% per thousand feet of density altitude. -25% / 8(thousand) = -3.125% per thousand feet of DA. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. - Michel de Montaigne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287501#287501 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
Date: Feb 21, 2010
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp 2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp -------- Thom Riddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average. Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of 29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these numbers essentially correct or am I missing something? Boyd Young MkIII Sorry I didn't proof read, 29.6 is the loss form the average 53.57 hp leaving 23.97 hp at 13000 ft. anyway it still don't sound right, maybe the 4.25 % per thousand is wrong. Or is it 4.25 for the first thousand from sea level and the percent drops as altitude increases? Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Matco's paperwork says " this assembly requires mil-h-5606 red aircraft fluid" Boyd Young Mkiii Boyd Y/Gang: That spec has not been out for too long. Reckon MATCO changed because of different seals or because of the Sport Pilot thing and certified aircraft? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Thanks, John. Would we have to flush out the brake fluid that's in the system, or are they compatible? David W/Gang: I don't know. I've been using the same quart of Walmart ATF since my first brakes on my FS in 1989. However, the system only uses a few ounces. If it was mine, I'd pump the fluid out of the reservoirs and master cylinders through the calipers. Then fill and bleed the opposite direction. Master cylinders should blow it right out of there. I don't know if that is the correct procedure or not, but it works for me. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447
Date: Feb 21, 2010
The fogging oil will coat all the innards to keep the rust at bay Better than the 2 stroke oil. Boyd Young MkIII Boyd Y/Gang: Two stroke oil is loaded with solvents. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Monument Valley 2010
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Kolb Listers: Who would have ever thought we would be looking forward to MV 2010, as we made our way to the first one, MV 2003. We have all been so fortunate to have been able to enjoy MV every year since 2003. I remember one post by a long forgotten member of the Kolb List who referred to the MV attendees as, "the MV clique". He could never have been so far wrong in his observation. I can assure you, those of us that made the first one, those of us that have made every one since then, and those that have attended only one MV flyin, there is a special bond among us. Something special. If that is a clique, so be it. Most of the folks that make the MV flyin, I would never have had the opportunity to meet otherwise. All these Kolb people are special to me. Where else can one go, spend the weekend, enjoy one of the most beautiful places in the world, spend quality time with people you met on the Kolb List, live, talk, and breath, Kolb airplanes. We have no duties, responsibilities, dues or fees. Only plans are to set the date, and that has been done: 21-23 May 2010. Everyone is welcome to our flyin no matter what you fly, if you fly, have an airplane or not, only have the desire, or how you arrive. Three months from today is the day. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with
one? 12 hp per gallon per hour.... pretty good liars formula...Pretty accurate estimation...Herb At 11:00 AM 2/21/2010, you wrote: > > >2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp >2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp > >-------- >Thom Riddle > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at >best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average. >Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of >29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or >is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and >using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these >numbers essentially correct or am I missing something? > >Boyd Young MkIII > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >02/21/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
We had a small amt that steve gave us w/ the plane. Was worried it wouldn't be enough, but it was. Pumped it from an oil can at the bleeder and watched the bubble run! Very satisfying. Thanks, Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287540#287540 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
John, Kolb List; As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the required time from work and have a job when I get back. Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is something I one day hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those who pull it off are similar to the five people I have met who have done it, I would be in good company. I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip. On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a quick video. I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more than a minute or two, so I edited this one down to about that range. The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind blowing, but zero thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if you notice the EGT's are around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70 degrees higher, CHT's only slightly higher. It was great to get up, looking forward to more spring-time flying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Jimmy, What is your altitude? What size jets are you running? I am asking because with the stock jets at 4000 feet my EGT's never got any higher than 1150. I put in the HAC from Jerry O and that raised my EGT's to 1200 or so even when it is shut off. I am wondering because I may not be able to operate at sea level with this set up. A main jet change may be necessary. Better to know now than when I get there. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy Young To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010 John, Kolb List; As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the required time from work and have a job when I get back. Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is something I one day hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those who pull it off are similar to the five people I have met who have done it, I would be in good company. I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip. On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a quick video. I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more than a minute or two, so I edited this one down to about that range. The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind blowing, but zero thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if you notice the EGT's are around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70 degrees higher, CHT's only slightly higher. It was great to get up, looking forward to more spring-time flying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/21/10 19:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Sorry, should have changed the thread. :-/ Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010 Jimmy, What is your altitude? What size jets are you running? I am asking because with the stock jets at 4000 feet my EGT's never got any higher than 1150. I put in the HAC from Jerry O and that raised my EGT's to 1200 or so even when it is shut off. I am wondering because I may not be able to operate at sea level with this set up. A main jet change may be necessary. Better to know now than when I get there. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmy Young To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010 John, Kolb List; As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the required time from work and have a job when I get back. Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is something I one day hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those who pull it off are similar to the five people I have met who have done it, I would be in good company. I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip. On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a quick video. I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more than a minute or two, so I edited this one down to about that range. The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind blowing, but zero thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if you notice the EGT's are around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70 degrees higher, CHT's only slightly higher. It was great to get up, looking forward to more spring-time flying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553 http://www.matronicp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - www.avg.com 02/21/10 19:34:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/21/10 19:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
At 05:14 PM 2/20/2010, Bob Kravis wrote: >The new FF has a GRT 2002 EIS with altitude sensor. Hal said it is >sweet. I looked at Grand Rapids website and saw that they offer a fuel >pressure sensor. As I have read in the postings, many of the engine outs >are due to fuel starvation. There is a testimonial on their website (see ><http://www.grtavionics.com/blog.aspx>Flying Impressions) about an RV >owner who turned back when he got a low fuel pressure warning after >takeoff. That got me thinking about adding one. What does the group >think about that idea? I have a simple mechanical pressure gauge on my plane. Never had a problem with the pump, but it's nice to glance at it from time to time and see that it's in the normal range (3-5 psi). It's also a check on the float needle; if the pressure holds for awhile after shutting down the engine your needle/seat are still good. -Dana -- Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
At 10:23 AM 2/21/2010, John Hauck wrote: > > > Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the >Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a >pulse line... I always assumed the #1 cause of fuel starvation events was too much air in the fuel tank... :) -Dana -- Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with
one? At 07:59 AM 2/21/2010, Thom Riddle wrote: > >The early FS w/ 377 I once owned, had plenty of climb performance. > >One way to guestimate the actual horsepower being delivered from a >4-stroke engine is by knowing the actual fuel consumption rate of the >engine under power. Most 4-stroke engines burn in the range of .42 - .48 >pounds of gasoline per hour... Another way to calculate the actual thrust horsepower (including any propeller efficiency loss, which is significant) is to measure the power off rate of sink, and the full power rate of climb, t the same airspeed. Add these two rates together, divide by 60 (to convert feet/minute into feet/second), multiply by the aircraft weight, and divide by 550. The result is the actual THP your engine/prop combination is producing. The actual engine shaft horsepower is probably around 50% more than that, assuming about 66% prop efficiency. -Dana -- Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Dana: Please give credit to the individual that wrote the post. I did not write it, and don't want to be associated with it. Sounds like something Lucien would generate. " Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a pulse line..." john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama I always assumed the #1 cause of fuel starvation events was too much air in the fuel tank... :) -Dana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor
At 08:22 PM 2/21/2010, John Hauck wrote: >Dana: > >Please give credit to the individual that wrote the post. > >I did not write it, and don't want to be associated with it. > >Sounds like something Lucien would generate. > >" Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events..." Sorry, my mistake. It was indeed Lucien's statement; I clicked "reply" to the wrong message. In your message it wasn't automatically marked as quoted text, so I misread it. -Dana -- If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2010
From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
John -I couldn't agree with you more. I've been to two of the MV fly-ins, a nd both times they were unparalleled experiences - not just the glorious fl ying, but the glorious people. Friendly, helpful, just great to be around. I don't fly a Kolb, yet no one cared at all. I'm really looking forward to being there in 3 months.- Arty TrostSandy, OregonMaxair Drifter- www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Sun, 2/21/10, John Hauck wrote: From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2010 Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:57 AM Kolb Listers: Who would have ever thought we would be looking forward to MV 2010, as we made our way to the first one, MV 2003. We have all been so fortunate to have been able to enjoy MV every year sinc e 2003.- I remember one post by a long forgotten member of the Kolb List wh o referred to the MV attendees as, "the MV clique".- He could never have be en so far wrong in his observation.- I can assure you, those of us that made the first one, those of us that have made every one since then, and those that have attended only one MV flyin, there is a special bond among us. Something special.- If that is a clique, so be it. Most of the folks that make the MV flyin, I would never have had the opportunity to meet otherwise.- All these Kolb people are special to me. Where else can one go, spend the weekend, enjoy one of the most beautiful places in the world, spend quality time with people you met on the Kolb List, live, talk, and breath, Kolb airplanes. We have no duties, responsibilities, dues or fees.- Only plans are to set the date, and that has been done: 21-23 May 2010. Everyone is welcome to our flyin no matter what you fly, if you fly, have a n airplane or not, only have the desire, or how you arrive. Three months from today is the day. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
From: "Kirkds" <kirkds(at)dishmail.net>
Date: Feb 21, 2010
Wish it wasn't so far away. Beautiful area though. Was there in 99 on my motorcycle. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287582#287582 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Don't know if you will find this useful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THo3IzhX9hI&feature=channel this is video of Jimmy Y taking off from False River, LA. not a lot of "leap into the air" for which Kolbs are known for. Jimmy seems much happier with his HKS. Look forward to flying with him soon. Not much flying these past 5 months. Rain, Rain, Rain. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287601#287601 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
If you don't have the Matco instructions/manual for your brakes go to their website to get them. My Matco manual says to use 5606 fluid in their brakes but the builder used ATF so that is what I continue to use. Seals for 5606 are compatible with ATF but once you start with one or the other don't change. Thom in Buffalo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
...The result is the actual THP your engine/prop combination is producing. The actual engine shaft horsepower is probably around 50% more than that, assuming about 66% prop efficiency. -Dana ... Two questions, Dana: 1) By "power off" do you mean idle power or engine stopped? 2) Do you mean the result is the thrust horsepower at that airspeed at full throttle climb? or some other specific regime? My Slingshot at 65 mph climb and idle power glide are 900 fpm during normal summer density altitudes. My typical flying weight is 825 lb. 900+900=1800 1800/60 = 30 30x825/550= 45 THP 45 THP x 2 = 90 BHP With engine off and prop stopped the descent rate goes up to 1200 fpm. 1200+900=2100 2100/60=35 35x825/550=52.5 THP 52.5 THP x 2 = 105 BHP My 80 hp at 3,300 rpm Jabiru engine produces about 75 hp at WOT climb at 3,000 rpm at 65 mph at sea level, a bit less during summer. Maybe my prop is a lot more efficient than your assumption. Your thoughts? -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. - Michel de Montaigne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287623#287623 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Matco brake fluid specs
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Thom R/Gang: Check out paragraph 4 of Assembly Information: http://static1.veracart.com/matco/item_pdfs/2665/document1.pdf The way I read it, I can use darn near anything but automotive brake fluid. MATCO recommends: "ONLY red aircraft fluid (MIL-H-5606) or other petroleum-based or silicone-based fluid should be used." No need to spend extra money for something that is not going to do any more for you than Walmart ATF. I have used ATF exclusively since my first aircraft brakes in 1988 (Hegar) and MATCO, 1992. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama If you don't have the Matco instructions/manual for your brakes go to their website to get them. My Matco manual says to use 5606 fluid in their brakes but the builder used ATF so that is what I continue to use. Seals for 5606 are compatible with ATF but once you start with one or the other don't change. Thom in Buffalo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one?
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
OOOOPS! I just looked at the last line of each of my examples and realized I multiplied by 2 instead of 1.5 My bad. 45 thp x 1.5 = 67.5 bhp 52.5 thp x 1.5 = 78.75 bhp Sorry for not proof reading better. Makes more sense now. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly. - Michel de Montaigne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287626#287626 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Kolb List, I said: > I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip. It's easy to recognize BS when it goes to print. I need to retract that statement as I was momentarily suffering from keyboard flying. Though I am sure the Firestar is capable, I am no more qualified to fly out west in high terrain than the man in the moon. The highest ground I've ever flown over isn't more than 300' agl. I would, however, like to have the opportunity to give it a try one year. -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287628#287628 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sun & Fun
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Jeff and I are fixin' to go to S&F this April. We'll probably attend Friday and Saturday. Would be fun to meet fellow Kolbers. Anyone going? Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287647#287647 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with
one? Thom, power off would be prop stopped... there is still a significant amount of thrust from an idling engine. The thrust horsepower (I see you corrected the X2 to x1.5 in the later message) calculated is the THP you're producing in the full power climb. Actually there are some minor variations, since the stopped drag has some small but significant amount of drag that isn't a factor when under power, so to be strictly correct, you'd have to have a fully feathered prop (or removed, but then I guess you'd have to do deadstick glides of a mountaintop!). The 1.5 factor is from a VERY off the cuff guesstimate of 66% prop efficiency. I have no idea what it really is... but if you calculate as I described and know the exact BHP of your engine, you can calculate the exact prop efficiency (or combined prop/redrive if the engine specs give BHP before the redrive). Sounds like I was pretty close, though. The power off rate of sink at a given speed times the sink rate is the "power deficiency"; this is the power required to maintain level flight at that speed. Any excess power over that required for level flight, divided by the weight, equals the climb rate, again at that same speed. To be more technically correct, it's at that speed _and_ angle of attack... with a high thrustline there will be trim issues with power that cause changes in drag, for additional inaccuracy... it's an approximation, but as you can see, a pretty good one. That 78.75 is close enough to 75 to be well within the limits of error, even better if you figure the drag of the stopped prop... 3.75HP is 15# drag at 65 mph, which is quite believable. These both come from the same simple relationship: force X velocity / 550 = HP. It work for weight as the force and vertical speed, or thrust (= drag) and airspeed (speed converted in both cases into ft/s and force in pounds, of course). -Dana At 09:52 AM 2/22/2010, Thom Riddle wrote: >Two questions, Dana: >1) By "power off" do you mean idle power or engine stopped? >2) Do you mean the result is the thrust horsepower at that airspeed at >full throttle climb? or some other specific regime? > >My Slingshot at 65 mph climb and idle power glide are 900 fpm during >normal summer density altitudes. My typical flying weight is 825 lb. >900+900=1800 >1800/60 = 30 >30x825/550= 45 THP >45 THP x 2 = 90 BHP > >With engine off and prop stopped the descent rate goes up to 1200 fpm. >1200+900=2100 >2100/60=35 >35x825/550=52.5 THP >52.5 THP x 2 = 105 BHP > >My 80 hp at 3,300 rpm Jabiru engine produces about 75 hp at WOT climb at >3,000 rpm at 65 mph at sea level, a bit less during summer. > >Maybe my prop is a lot more efficient than your assumption. Your thoughts? > >-------- >Thom Riddle >Buffalo, NY >Kolb Slingshot SS-021 >Jabiru 2200A #1574 >Tennessee Prop 64x32 > > >I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated >sufficiently to reason incorrectly. > - Michel de Montaigne > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287623#287623 > > -- Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Jeff and I are fixin' to go to S&F this April. We'll probably attend Friday and Saturday. Would be fun to meet fellow Kolbers. Anyone going? Dave So far, Rick Neilsen and I are flying planning on flying in and camping in the UL area at the NE end of the UL strip. I don't know how long I will stay, probably until I get bored. You all planning on flying? Looking forward to seeing everyone down there. john hauck mkIII Tutus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Monument Valley 2010
Date: Feb 22, 2010
> I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip. Jimmy Young Jimmy Y/Gang: No doubt in my mind Jimmy can fly to MV and back to Texas in his HKS powered FS. He has already demonstrated he has what it takes to make long, multi-day cross country flights in the FS when it was powered with the Generac. Frank Goodnight and Larry Cottrell have demonstrated to me the capabilities of the HKS/FS at higher altitudes. Frank flew out of MV at 5200 feet MSL, and Larry lives and flies out of his airstrip in the high country of SE Oregon. Neither Frank nor Larry could be categorized as lightweights. I admire those on the List that have the time, money, and guts, to load their Kolbs with their camping gear, take off, point the nose towards their destinations, sometimes days away, and experience the thrill and adventure of living with and flying a little Kolb airplane. Wil Uribe and Dave Rains, of El Paso, TX, have done some pretty impressive multi-day cross country flights in their FS's. I respect these Kolb adventurers. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Cockpit storage cover Fire Fly
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Where can I get one Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Sun & Fun
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Thinking of volunteeing , any comments Pete Homosassa Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Subject: Firefly full enclosure
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Does anybody have information about or experience with the full windscreen on a Firefly? Here in Maine it might make a difference 8 months of the year. I wrote to Travis and he told me that it is a hingeless installation. He said you can just lift it and slip into the cockpit - "like lifting the sheet and getting into bed." That seems odd and a bit awkward. I would has suspected a hinge along the left edge of the cockpit but what do I know? From what few pictures I have found on the web, and the YouTube video of the AmeriFly (great paint!) I can't tell very much. BTW Travis said adds 10 lbs. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sky Biker Richardson <smlplanet(at)msn.com>
Subject: Sun & Fun
Date: Feb 22, 2010
I volunteered a couple years ago and enjoyed it BUT if you camp out make s ure you have a warm place to stay=2C I froze my**s off a few nights From: lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com Subject: Kolb-List: Sun & Fun Date: Mon=2C 22 Feb 2010 17:44:36 -0500 Thinking of volunteeing =2C any comments Pete Homosassa Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Hello all, I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes. I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for different rockwell c hardnesses. Regards Jason MKIII Portland Oregon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 22, 2010
My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes. I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for different rockwell c hardnesses. Regards Jason Jason/Gang: I don't have a chart. 48 Rockwell was the number I came up with many years ago after experimenting with my first gear legs at 42 RC, which was what Maxair was using on their 4130 gear legs. These were way too soft. Those were the first 4130 heat treated legs on a Kolb, 1987. I think you will be in the ball park to bend and not break. 1.8 to 1.9 is not that much harder. Will probably make a better spring. If it was my gear legs I would not be worried about them breaking. I bent two of my gear legs at Mucho Lake, BC, in 2000, both 90 degrees without breaking. I think my legs came out to 49 RC or close to it. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
At 08:10 PM 2/22/2010, Jason Omelchuck wrote: >I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me the >properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. > >My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC >49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears >out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard >impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the >rockwell c scale makes. > >I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for >different rockwell c hardnesses. 49.9 is 253 ksi. 48 is 237 ksi http://www.unified-eng.com/scitech/hardness/hardness.html If you search for MIL-HDBK-5, it contains this and much more materials information (it can be downloaded as a pdf, but I don't have time to find the link). -Dana -- Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Yep....just attach the .0625 lexan to the left side of the fuselage and let it fold over the nose and the rear hoop... Works very well.. On the Right side ...attach a 1//4 inch or so rod that is aligned to go through a hole in the tab that the nose cone attaches to...that holds/secures the lexan over the nose cone...Make some sort of latch to batten down the right rear side... On the rear hoop...attach the lexan to the hoop about three 8ths of the way up... on the nose cone end attach the lexan about 3/4 ths the way up the left side.. Make some sort of of cable stop to prevent the lexan from being blown over the left side... while allowing it to come up high enough for entry...Install a prop to hold the windscreen open for entering... You will need to attach aluminum angle on both sides running up the left side to prevent the lexan from bowing...same for right side.. These should be long enough to just fit the nose cone to bow attach point.. Clear as mud I know...but my tele prompter is broken....:-) Herb At 05:51 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Does anybody have information about or experience with the full >windscreen on a Firefly? Here in Maine it might make a difference 8 >months of the year. I wrote to Travis and he told me that it is a >hingeless installation. He said you can just lift it and slip into >the cockpit - "like lifting the sheet and getting into bed." That >seems odd and a bit awkward. I would has suspected a hinge along >the left edge of the cockpit but what do I know? From what few >pictures I have found on the web, and the YouTube video of the >AmeriFly (great paint!) I can't tell very much. BTW Travis said adds 10 lbs. >Bob > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 22, 2010
I got a full enclosure from Kolb for my Firestar and it included the metal hardware to attach to the top of the cage, a full sheet of lexan and a alum tube. Basically you cut the lexan to fit over this hardware and the nose cone in one piece and is secured on the other side of the cage. In essence the lexan is secured on the left side of the cage, then to the alum tube in the middle of the wind screen. You can lift the right side to get in. I am still using the metal parts that they supplied even though I have redesigned the lexan to a bit differently. I did not use the alum piece in the center, even though you will eventually get used to it. You can manufacture and install a heat collector on the shroud of the two strokes and pipe the heat into the cage for heat. Check the archives Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly full enclosure Does anybody have information about or experience with the full windscreen on a Firefly? Here in Maine it might make a difference 8 months of the year. I wrote to Travis and he told me that it is a hingeless installation. He said you can just lift it and slip into the cockpit - "like lifting the sheet and getting into bed." That seems odd and a bit awkward. I would has suspected a hinge along the left edge of the cockpit but what do I know? From what few pictures I have found on the web, and the YouTube video of the AmeriFly (great paint!) I can't tell very much. BTW Travis said adds 10 lbs. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/22/10 19:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
We will probably drive up Thursday nite and stay in Tampa w/ friends, arrive Friday AM. Hope you don't get bored early! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287743#287743 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Jason=2C If your steel gear was tested by the heat treater=2C and it came out to b e 49.9 RH=2C then that's pretty darn close!! My absolute favorite class in college was my Engineering Materials class! ! Now=2C THAT class was just plain fun!! We stretched steel rods until th ey broke=2C we heat treated metals to check their Rockwell hardness=2C befo re and after. We crushed 2" x 2" wooden blocks in a big press to determine their resistance to collapse. We did all kinds of neat science lab tests to investigate all kinds of materials. Heating metals and testing them was part of the lab work. It was also fun. Like I said=2C I tested some steel samples for their Rockwell Hardness pr operties. Simple test=2C too. You slam a little tiny super hard steel bal l against a surface (from the testing rig). You then measure the dent diam eter and determine on the Rockwell Scale what the hardness is. Soft metals give big dents. Spring steel gives almost no dent. If your steel legs came back at 49.9=2C then I'd personally relax=2C and not worry about it. I can't recall the exact numbers for spring steel=2C but it is a "range"=2C like 42 RH to 65 RH. 1.9 is not much of a deviation. Besides=2C Rockwell 48 is only an educated guess at what the best treatme nt is for the gear legs=2C anyway. It could have just as easily Rockwell 5 0. There is=2C undoubtedly=2C a "range" of hardness that will work just fi ne!! In my opinion=2C you've got a set of mighty fine gear legs. Don't worry about 'em. Unless=2C of course=2C you still have any holes to drill. In t hat case=2C worry! Best regards=2C Mike Welch MkIII > Subject: Kolb-List: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness > From: jason@trek-tech.com > Date: Mon=2C 22 Feb 2010 17:10:11 -0800 > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hello all=2C > > I have searched the web=2C and I cannot find the a table that gives me th e properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. > > My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49 .8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale ma kes. > > I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for diff erent rockwell c hardnesses. > > Regards > Jason > MKIII > Portland Oregon > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Thanks for the quick reply guys. Tomorrow I fly! Jason MKIII Portland, OR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287749#287749 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 22, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
I have built a full encloser for a firestar1 & firestar 2 That will not be a problem I have a welding / Machine shop and I am willing to help you out all you have to do is buy the material Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly full enclosure Does anybody have information about or experience with the full windscreen on a Firefly? Here in Maine it might make a difference 8 months of the year. I wrote to Travis and he told me that it is a hingeless installati on. He said you can just lift it and slip into the cockpit - "like liftin g the sheet and getting into bed." That seems odd and a bit awkward. I would has suspected a hinge along the left edge of the cockpit but what do I know? From what few pictures I have found on the web, and the YouTu be video of the AmeriFly (great paint!) I can't tell very much. BTW Travi s said adds 10 lbs. Bob ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Hi Folks: Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for it, but now I do. After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not lexan, I am now flying in a true snare drum. Blamed it on my radio, my hearing, and anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created a drum. The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost killed me. Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the crap out of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home. Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious flying in April. Thanks, john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 22, 2010
Jason & kolb gang I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. The last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to in New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their oven. I've checked with five different metal treating outfits and they all gave me the same answer. They must all be using the same heat treating equipment. Gene Z On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me > the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. > > My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at > RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the > successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will > not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much > different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes. > > I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for > different rockwell c hardnesses. > > Regards > Jason > MKIII > Portland Oregon > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
I think all the attachment tabs were on my fuselage... Herb At 10:08 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >I have built a full encloser for a firestar1 & firestar 2 That will >not be a problem I have a welding / Machine shop and I am willing to >help you out all you have to do is buy the material > >Ellery Batchelder Jr. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2010 6:51 pm >Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly full enclosure > >Does anybody have information about or experience with the full >windscreen on a Firefly? Here in Maine it might make a difference 8 >months of the year. I wrote to Travis and he told me that it is a >hingeless installation. He said you can just lift it and slip into >the cockpit - "like lifting the sheet and getting into bed." That >seems odd and a bit awkward. I would has suspected a hinge along >the left edge of the cockpit but what do I know? From what few >pictures I have found on the web, and the YouTube video of the >AmeriFly (great paint!) I can't tell very much. BTW Travis said adds 10 lbs. >Bob > > >=================================== >rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >=================================== >tp://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >=================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
We will probably drive up Thursday nite and stay in Tampa w/ friends, arrive Friday AM. Hope you don't get bored early! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287770#287770 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Oops, sorry about that. Pushed the wrong button. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287771#287771 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
At 10:44 PM 2/22/2010, John Hauck wrote: > >Hi Folks: > >Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise >insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for >it, but now I do. John, E-A-R is one manufacturer. McMaster-Carr sells many of their products. -Dana -- America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
At 10:44 PM 2/22/2010, John Hauck wrote: > >Hi Folks: > >Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise >insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for >it, but now I do. John, E-A-R is one manufacturer. McMaster-Carr sells many of their products. -Dana -- America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
There is a picture of the FSII one piece windshield and rear latch mechanism here: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Latch.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287780#287780 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Richard, Thanks for the link. I had never seen your site. There's a lot of information there and I look forward to reading every bit of it. Bob On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Richard Pike wrote: > > There is a picture of the FSII one piece windshield and rear latch > mechanism here: > http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Latch.html > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287780#287780 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Hi Jason, If will call Travis at Kolb He can tell you everything you need to know , He helped me when I had to get the CM tubes heat treated for my firestar gear legs. Great folks at TNK can't say enough good things about them. Frank Goodnight Firestar 2 HKS Brownsville , TX On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > The last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to > in New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their > oven. I've checked with five different metal treating outfits and > they all gave me the same answer. They must all be using the same > heat treating equipment. > > Gene Z > > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives >> me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. >> >> My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater >> at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the >> successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will >> not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much >> different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes. >> >> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties >> for different rockwell c hardnesses. >> >> Regards >> Jason >> MKIII >> Portland Oregon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
John, I found that regular automotive headliner material helps a lot, there is a local fabric and sewing shop that has a half dozen different colors in stock. It has foam on the back, and that generic headliner fabric on the facing side, put it on with spray upholstery contact adhesive. Don't know if it is as effective as dedicated sound dampening foam, but it is readily available, looks real good, light weight and fairly easy to work with. One layer would stop the aluminum from vibrating, I suppose you could use two layers to get that Lexus-quiet ride... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287783#287783 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
John, Try http://www.mcmaster.com/#sound-absorbers/=5xxn8t Gene On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:44 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Hi Folks: > > Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise > insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a > requirement for > it, but now I do. > > After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not > lexan, I > am now flying in a true snare drum. Blamed it on my radio, my > hearing, and > anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created > a drum. > The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost > killed > me. Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the > crap out > of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home. > > Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious > flying in > April. > > Thanks, > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 23, 2010
I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. Gene Z Gene/Gang: Check out a local truck spring company. Find out where they get their springs done. Might be able to get a lead on a heat treater for over 36". john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 23, 2010
> Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > > Gene Z Gene=2C Did you give those folks a call at Industrial Heat Treat in Salt Lake Cit y? They did mine=2C and the 36-37" length didn't seem to be a problem. Mike Welch I'll measure my gear legs the best I can=2C since they are installed=2C but I can't see why they can do mine=2C and not yours. I'll get back to you.. ...... _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for Noise Insulating Foam. I have to get some relief. Not only is the noise overpowering me, but is interferring with my radio transmissions. I've got some foam rubber to seal the front of the tailboom. I think that is a noise source also, plus a draft. john hauck mkIII Tutus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
> Hi Folks: > > Recently=2C someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise > insulating self-adhesive foam.> > john hauck > mkIII > Titus=2C Alabama Hey John=2C everyone=2C A couple of years ago I bought some insultation from America's greatest a uto parts vender......J.C. Whitney. (the greatest part was a joke=2C guys) I still haven't installed it. I bought for the firewall on the GlaStar I was building. IIRC=2C it's got adhesive on one side=2C and something reall y shiny on the other=2C like aluminum foil. The insulation stuff looks lik e a horse blanket (I think...I haven't looked it over for a couple of year s) I'm headed out to my shop in a few minutes=2C I'll find it and get a be tter look. The stuff I have is that shiny insulation they spread all over the interi or of a car=2C prior to carpet and door panel reinstallation. Mike Welch spring looks like it's around the corner here in central Missouri MkIII BTW=2C I've been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP. I can't seem to find it. Is that your personal airport facility? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
John=2C I just ran out and checked on my JCW insultion. The shiny part and the h orse blanket part is correct=2C but there isn't any adhesive on one side. Evidently=2C if someone wants this stuff to stay in place=2C they have to g et some of that 3M spray adhesive. If you didn't mind a silvery look=2C this stuff may be what you want. It feels like a good product=2C and I'm certain it would absolutely deaden a lot of the noise. Let me know=2C and I'll mail you a chunk of it to inspect. (it's about 1 /4" thick) Gene=2C I also measured (the best I could) my gear leg's length. It's awful hard to tell where the top end is=2C since it's inside the mounting tube=2C but it is really close to 36-38". Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Mike W/Gang: I have found a good source of skinned polyurethane, adhesive on one side. Probably go with that. Gantt IAP is my 750 foot airstrip located on the Gantt Farm, 3 miles by road from my house. It is located in a cow pasture and I have been flying out of it for 26 years. I have two hangers. For the first time in 26 years, I have no cows or cow manure mining my airstrip. That won't last long though. New cattleman is heading this way with his cows this Spring. The strip is not registered. I saw no need to get involved with the bureaucracy and red tape of the Federal Government. I made my first solo fixed wing flight out of this strip when it was 650 feet long, in 1984, with no fixed wing training, other than what I could learn from a stack of stick and rudder books I got at the US Air Force Air University Library, Maxwell AFB, Alabama. Being an Army helicopter pilot helped tremendously, but did not cover all the bases. Took two take offs and landings to get it right. I screwed up my first landing in an airplane. All other phases of fixed wing flight, I had no problem with. My biggest fear as a rotary wing pilot only was stall speed. This was something I had never dealt with until the day I decided to fly my brand new Ultrastar. Do not recommend this type flight training procedure for anyone. A nice 3,000 foot airport would have been much safer. I have built three Kolbs. All made their initial flights out of Gantt IAP. Gantt is truly an international airport. Every international flight I have made was initiated here. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama The stuff I have is that shiny insulation they spread all over the interior of a car, prior to carpet and door panel reinstallation. Mike Welch spring looks like it's around the corner here in central Missouri MkIII BTW, I've been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP. I can't seem to find it. Is that your personal airport facility? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
From: Jack Carillon <pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > The last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to in > New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their oven. > I've checked with five different metal treating outfits and they all > gave me the same answer. They must all be using the same heat treating > equipment. > > Gene Z > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > >> >> Hello all, >> >> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me >> the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. >> >> My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at >> RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful >> gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on >> hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on >> the rockwell c scale makes. >> >> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for >> different rockwell c hardnesses. >> >> Regards >> Jason >> MKIII >> Portland Oregon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Gene, Are you telling them these are landing gear legs for a aircraft. Maybe their oven gets smaller due to liability. JacK C. FSII Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Hi Folks: Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for it, but now I do. john hauck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John and the group I had found some material that I was going to do some more checking on. It is called "floor muffler" it is a sound and moisture control underlayment manufactured by diversified foam products, inc. 1 800 440 6008 WWW.flooringunderlayments.com It is .07 inches thick. Where I found it was at a place that sells hardwood floors. They had a sample of this and some other underlayments mounted on some plywood, then had a sample of hardwood floor mounted on top. They had a golf ball that could be used as a striking device and when hit the noise was maybe 1/4 as loud as compared to the other underlayment in the same display. I know we are not talking apples to apples but the material is extremely light weight, and would have to be mounted with some type of spray on adhesive or contact cement. Good luck Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gulp. I'm forsaking my Drifter.
From: "ropermike" <ropermike2002(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
I took an hour of instruction in this wonderful machine before I bought my Mkll. I loved the open flying! The plane was in Baton Rouge, LA but I cant remember the fellas name. Ive often thought about finding another Mkll and configuring it this way. -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287870#287870 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pb120047_956.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
From: "Eugene Zimmerman" <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Kolb friends, Whoopee! I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house. They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait. I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Wouldn't you know it.... I was shopping at my favorite place today and found a heat treat furnace...It was discarded from a trade school....Electric...and lined with fire brick.. so...there is a likely a furnace in many trade schools around the country.. This one came from one of the state of Tenn trade schools... and could be bought for about 15 cents a pound.... My favorite "trickle down" shopping place is the local salvage yard..:-) But I still get my rib reinforcing tape at a sewing shop.. :-) Herb At 04:42 PM 2/23/2010, you wrote: > >Kolb friends, > >Whoopee! >I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal >Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes >from my house. > >They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. >They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no >freight and no wait. > >I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to >help me find a heat treater. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >02/23/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sun & Fun
From: "Kip" <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Feb 23, 2010
Hope to see you guys there.... :D Kip -------- 2000 Firestar II R503 DCDI VLS 750 2010 Waiex Jabiru 3300 1980 Quickie 1 Electric? Needs restoration! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287923#287923 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Aileron gap seal
Date: Feb 24, 2010
My Fire Fly transport arrived yesterday and while putting the wings back on I noticed the the aileron gapseal needs to be replaced. Any suggestions. Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness
Date: Feb 24, 2010
I compared the weights when I installed the steel legs and they do weigh slightly more than the aluminum too. BB Bob B/Gang: In 1991, at Homer's, during fabrication of my mkIII, we compared our "hauck MKIII landing gear" with stock aluminum MKIII main gear. Our gear weight included the gear leg mounts and gear legs. We came out lighter than the standard aluminum gear, but memory of amount is long gone. My gear legs are 24" long with 6" inserted in the gear leg sockets. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2010
From: mark rinehart <capt_riney(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his). Before I cover the cage, I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc. For those of you who store stuff in this area, what do you do? I know wt&bal can be an issue, so I don't plan on putting anything too heavy back there. Mark Rinehart Indy MarkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
Date: Feb 24, 2010
Mark My rear fuselage is completely enclosed like John H's airplane but I have the stock fuel tanks. I added two triangular bins low, one behind each seat and a shelf near the top of the tanks that goes all the way back. When traveling I load these areas with mostly clothing accessed via a sound proofed curtain just behind the seats. This area is very close to CG so don't worry too much about messing up your wt&bal. Between these storage areas and the right cockpit seating area I can load a weeks clothing, a 6 gallon aux fuel tank, 5 tie downs with ropes, tent, sleeping bag, air mattress, pillow, folding camp chair, survival gear, extra oil and misc. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark rinehart" <capt_riney(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:01 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Mk3 Baggage Area Question > > I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the > horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did > with his). Before I cover the cage, I was wondering if I should install a > shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc. For those of > you who store stuff in this area, what do you do? I know wt&bal can be an > issue, so I don't plan on putting anything too heavy back there. > > Mark Rinehart > Indy MarkIII > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
Date: Feb 24, 2010
I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his). Before I cover the cage, I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc. For those of you who store stuff in this area, what do you do? I know wt&bal can be an issue, so I don't plan on putting anything too heavy back there. Mark Rinehart Mark R/Gang: I put a 25 gal (150 lbs of fuel) aluminum fuel tank up and rear where the open area is in a standard MKIII. That opened up the bottom, behind the bulkhead, for cargo. Used D-103, heaviest Stitts fabric and doubled the bottom of the fuselage. I put about 100 to 125 lbs of gear back there. More stuff goes under and behind the seats, plus stuff in the nose of my MKIII. CG has not been a problem with my MKIII. I have a 12+ lb Maule Tundra Tailwheel to boot. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 24, 2010
I put my gas tank between the wings and ahead of the engine, and turned the previous tank area into luggage. Here's some pics - http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg1.htm And here's some more - http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg3.htm Gives me a space as big as the original two 5 gallon tanks plus the package shelf for the lighter stuff like jackets or whatever. Since I don't do long cross countries anymore, it's enough. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288045#288045 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 24, 2010
Something that has worked well so far as a gap seal between the elevators and horizontal stab, I got some Office Depot brand premium packing tape which is 1 7/8" wide. Unless you cover the unused sticky part with something, it will collect dirt and soon look awful, so I tore off a length and pinned it down sticky side up. Then you get some 3/4" or 7/8" wide clear tape and lay it onto the middle of the wide tape, sticky sides together. You will need a helper, because it tries to jump together and will drive you nuts. Then get the wing and aileron clean, stick it on the underside of the wing and aileron with a little free play and you are good to go. Like I say, it has held up for about three years on the tail, so it ought to work on the ailerons. Or you could just bite the bullet and do it with Stits... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288047#288047 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seal
Date: Feb 24, 2010
Or you could just bite the bullet and do it with Stits... Richard Pike ******************** Richard/Gang: I still have one wing on my mkIII with 19 year old serviceable gap seal on flap and aileron. That is a total of 2,987.0 flight hours. Ain't bad for a piece of polyester fabric finishing tape with a little dope and paint. Gap seal on the other wing was good and probably would have lasted as long, but the wing got broken in 2000. ;-) john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2010
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
How are you,I hope all is well at home and work,I'm writing you this with tears in my eyes,as many of you have not responded to my last email and i guess you don't seem to be of help after when i told you about my difficulties here in United Kingdomi write to let you know i misplaced my wallet on my way heading back to my hotel room from the Starbucks coffee shop.Presently i have limited access to internet and would like you to assist me with a loan of 1,540 Pounds to sort-out my hotel bills and to get myself back home because my wallet consist of all my money,phone,diary and my boarding pass(Return Ticket). I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to matters effectively,I'll Refund the money back to you as soon as i'm back home,I would have love you to call me but don't have a phone where i can be reached. let me know if you can be of any help,I will appreciate whatever you can afford to assist me with, do get back to me immediately as you receive this email in order for me to let you know where to send the money. I know this email sounds strange but i did send it Thanks Ben ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2010
Subject: Re:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
I'm guessing no one responded because your return ticket was to Never Never Land. For the benefit of the rest of you idiots in Nigeria, this BS doesn't work with this group. Rick On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Ben Ramler wrote: > > How are you,I hope all is well at home and work,I'm writing you this with > tears in my eyes,as many of you have not responded to my last email and i > guess you don't seem to be of help after when i told you about my > difficulties here in United Kingdomi write to let you know i misplaced my > wallet on my way heading back to my hotel room from the Starbucks coffee > shop.Presently i have limited access to internet and would like you to > assist me with a loan of 1,540 Pounds to sort-out my hotel bills and to get > myself back home because my wallet consist of all my money,phone,diary and > my boarding pass(Return Ticket). > > I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to matters > effectively,I'll Refund the money back to you as soon as i'm back home,I > would have love you to call me but don't have a phone where i can be > reached. > let me know if you can be of any help,I will appreciate whatever you can > afford to assist me with, do get back to me immediately as you receive this > email in order for me to let you know where to send the money. > > > I know this email sounds strange but i did send it > > Thanks > Ben > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 24, 2010
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
John, Hi-Tech Foams Lincoln NE 402-470-2346.I believe the product is called Dens o-Foam.It's 1/2" thick peel and stick on the white side,black on the other. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2010 10:44 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam Hi Folks: Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for it, but now I do. After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not lexan, I am now flying in a true snare drum. Blamed it on my radio, my hearing, an d anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created a drum . The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost killed me. Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the crap out of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home. Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious flying in April. Thanks, john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 24, 2010
Gary A/Gang: That is the one I remember now. Thanks a million. I'll check them out. Did you use this in your airplane? or know someone that did? have any results? john hauck mkIII titus, alabama Hi-Tech Foams Lincoln NE 402-470-2346.I believe the product is called Denso-Foam.It's 1/2" thick peel and stick on the white side,black on the other. G.Aman ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 24, 2010
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
John, Got yards of the stuff everywhere I thought it would help.In the center co ver on root ends.on both sides of the spar carry through and on the inside of the top and in the cabin.Ask Rick if it helps. -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:06 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam Gary A/Gang: That is the one I remember now. Thanks a million. I'll check them out. Did you use this in your airplane? or know someone that did? have any resu lts? john hauck mkIII titus, alabama Hi-Tech Foams Lincoln NE 402-470-2346.I believe the product is called Denso-Foam.It's 1/2" thick peel and stick on the white side,black on the other. G.Aman ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 24, 2010
OK. Thanks, john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Got yards of the stuff everywhere I thought it would help.In the center cover on root ends.on both sides of the spar carry through and on the inside of the top and in the cabin.Ask Rick if it helps. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Here is another source of soundproofing products. http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing I've not tried any of these. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288125#288125 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his). Before I cover the cage, I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc. For those of you who store stuff in this area, what do you do? I know wt&bal can be an issue, so I don't plan on putting anything too heavy back there. Mark Rinehart Indy MarkIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. No shelf, that is extra weight, and I put sleeping bags and the like in the back. On a solo cross country I put one bag on the floor in the passenger side. And the rest on top of my fuel tank. The bag on the floor counterbalances anything put in the back, and my fuel tank is at cg when solo, so bags in that area make no change. When x country with 2, everything in the back, under seats, where ever I can stuff it. With 2 on board, I am further forward on the cg than I would like. Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Here is another source of soundproofing products. http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing I've not tried any of these. -------- Thom Riddle Thanks, Thom R: I like this one, RoadBlockR: http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being bombarded with. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I think I'll be ordering some of this RoadBlocker too. I didn't see that particular style until you pointed it out, John. I'll probably put some overhead permanently and a removable piece between the back seat and aft fuselage area. Might even add some to the fabric in the aft fuselage area. At 1/2 lb per sqft, the wt penalty is minimal. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288163#288163 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
> >I like this one, RoadBlockR: > >http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > John, Still seems expensive and heavy. Standard house extruded foam insulation weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness. Might be worth a try. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Still seems expensive and heavy. Standard house extruded foam insulation weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness. Might be worth a try. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Gang: I went down to the big city of Wetumpka, AL, last night to check out what they had at Lowes. Problem with this stuff is the fire hazard and the noxious fumes created by fire, which would be deadly in some crashes. Based on my flying style and geographic hazards where I fly, I don't mind spending more for a product, even though there is a weight penalty involved, if it won't kill me if I crash and burn. Primarily, I want to kill some of the noise, and do it safely. There is another problem with spilled fuel when refueling. My fuel filler is on the top left rear half of the center section. I haven't checked but spilled fuel would probably melt the foam insulation. Thanks for your input. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I'm not a sound engineer but seem to recall reading that unlike thermal insulation, the density of the acoustic barrier material is an important factor in reducing dbl levels. If this is the case, then the lightest material may not do the job. I've been researching this since this subject came up but have not found any definitive information on it. Since Will Uribe works in this area, maybe if he is monitoring this thread he might be able to add something useful for our mutual benefit. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288180#288180 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I found the following site to be helpful in explaining this subject, including the sound barrier ratings. This site also sells the RoadBlockeR and other acoustic materials. http://www.soundproofcow.com/how-we-test-sound-blocking-products.html -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288183#288183 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
John H.=2C Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of thos e Headsets=2C Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them a t the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results=3B for me=2C mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone=2C I thi nk. Severe tinnitus=2C too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones=2C I'd say the background noise reduction is better=2C but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method=2C if you have experience with one. Thanks=2C Mike Welch > From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu=2C 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofin g > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > > > Thanks=2C Thom R: > > I like this one=2C RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need a nd > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus=2C Alabama > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
Mark Rinehart asked: << I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his)... I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc ... what do you do? >> Hi, Mark - I did the same thing for my Mark-III. You apparently came to the same conclusion at I, noting that the space behind the fuel tanks is a useful storage volume - why cover it over? With lightness in mind, I did not use a "shelf" per se, but rather, a sling made from fishing net. Because of the center fore-aft tube in that location, my fishing net cargo sling is actually two compartments - a left and a right side, with the net attached along all 4 sides. The single piece of net rides over the center tube, and each sling compartment is about 14 inches deep. For the top, I fabricated a vinyl cover that velcros down at the edges. It is firmly attached down the center, so it cannot come loose and go into the prop. See picture - hope this helps . Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Modified wing tip shape
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Hey Jack B. Hart, last year on Aug 26, you posted a link to an interesting study on wing tip shapes. http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1923/naca-report-140.pdf It made sense, would be as easy to make as the regular tip, and if it didn't work, probably would'nt hurt. The other link you posted was along the same line, even more interesting, but has since been taken down. Ed liked the idea, the rebuild process is still coming along, and here is the first tip. Not as radical as what the link said was ideal, but didn't require any major mods either. Just so you'll know somebody out here is paying attention... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) PS: No, the trailing edge is not curved, that is the wide angle lens effect. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288208#288208 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fsiiwing_large_688.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Mike, I also added the headsets inc kits to my H-10-30 DC 's.I have a lot of foa m added to the aircraft but the kits REALLY improved my DC's G.AmanMK-3C jabiru 2200A generating 2800 decibels @ cruise.Well maybe no t that much, but a lot anyway -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 3:32 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam John H., Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of tho se Headsets, Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them at the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results; for me, mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone, I think. Severe tinnitus, too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones, I'd say the background noise reduction is better, but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method, if you have experience with one. Thanks, Mike Welch > From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofi ng > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > > > Thanks, Thom R: > > I like this one, RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > >==================== > _========= > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Fr_new'>Sign up now. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I fly with a DRE6000 ANR headset. It worked great before the center section rebuild, actually allowed me to be able to hear well enough to fly with my radio. Since rebuilding the center section with sheet metal, I am getting more noise than the radio, ANR, and I can handle well. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ----- Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? Thanks, Mike Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Modified wing tip shape
Richard- Did you lengthen the trailing edge, shorten the leading edge, or b oth?- What about the flaps and ailerons? - ------------------------- ------------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------------FS 447 ------------------------- ------------------ 39 degrees and raini ng - ------------------------- ------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Longo" <tclongo(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Hi Mike, I have installed one of these in my David Clark 10-20 headset and it works great. I compared it with my Bose X and have sold the Bose and use the David Clark now. It only works good on the low frequency range like you get from a direct drive motor that runs in the 2k to 3k plus range. Did not work that good in my MK III with 582 but works great in a Cessna or Piper. Hope this helps. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Welch Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam John H., Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of those Headsets, Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them at the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results; for me, mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone, I think. Severe tinnitus, too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones, I'd say the background noise reduction is better, but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method, if you have experience with one. Thanks, Mike Welch > From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > Thanks, Thom R: > > I like this one, RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > >==================== > _========= > > _____ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Fr_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Modified wing tip shape
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
[quote="williamtsullivan(at)att.n"]Richard- Did you lengthen the trailing edge, shorten the leading edge, or both? What about the flaps and ailerons? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 39 degrees and raining > [b] Cut 1.75" off the leading edge where it stuck out past the last rib, the trailing edge is stock, not going to modify the ailerons. FSII=no flaps. This was a donor wing that only needs a little work, bought a basket case in Florida for parts. Tomorrow will be pulling out the steel root rib, it has some rust on it, need to make sure it is not rusty where it slips inside the trailing edge. Ed's original left wing ought to be in pretty good shape, the crash got the tip and a little bit of the trailing edge, will probably pull the cover off next week and get started on it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288247#288247 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I just got a response to an email inquiry to the site I listed as a supplier of the RoadBlockR product, which follows: Hi Thom, Planes and autos are always a tough one because of all of the noise variables. I had a gentleman who had replaced the bushings on his car with urethane bushings and had a very high pitched whirring sound as a result. He used the RoadBlockR and saw a definite reduction in vibrational noise in the car (and his audio system sounded 10 xs better!), less of an echoing. He did see some minor reduction in the airborne noise, but not as much as he had hoped, so he is furthering the application with some sound absorption foam under the carpeting, etc. I havent heard back from him just yet on how he made out with that. One of the other products you could look at is lining portions of the cabin with something like this product. This comes with either a peel and stick backing, or can be applied with an adhesive. http://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-soundproofing-barriers/soundproofing-insulation-foam.html Then I got another reply which follows: Hey Thom! I missed the last part of your email. The vibrational products do not have an STC rating, they have a Loss Ratio number. This is due to the fact that is a different test that is applied. They test the vibraitonal loss at different temperatures. The Barrier Composite has an STC of 20 from the barrier and an NRC of .25 Something else to consider, Roadblock R is a Class A rated fire resistant product. The second product is not. May be an important consideration. Also, our Silent Running product is a roll on or spray on product. It basically takes the ding out of the metalif the metal is hit, it has a thump sound. http://www.soundproofcow.com/sound-deadening/sound-damping-coating.html Tiffany M Roth Acoustic Design Rep/Account Manager American Micro Industries 440 Ramsey Ave Chambersburg, PA 17201 P: 717-262-7244 C: 717-658-9111 F: 717-261-1790 troth(at)americanmicroinc.com -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288283#288283 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 26, 2010
John I just found a sample of sound insulation I picked up at Sun-N-Fun last year made for aircraft. I don't know how well it works. Scroll down they sell their product in bulk. http://www.soundexproducts.com/order.html Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I just found a sample of sound insulation I picked up at Sun-N-Fun last year made for aircraft. Rick Neilsen ************** I'll probably go with the RoadBlockR product. It seems that it will do what I want it to do with the simplest installation. If I could keep the area under the center section and the top of the fuel tank dry, I'd stuff it with insulation and drive one. I can live with some noise, as I have done for years, but since the center section overhaul, it has become overwhelming. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Mahesh Iyer <miyer2u(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Dear Kolbers, I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on Rotax e ngines in case anyone has used it. I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to upgrade . Any feedback is appreciated. =C2- Thanks, Mahesh Iyer Kolb FS-2, Oregon. The joy of Flight Nothing comes closer, it=99s a ro mance for life! =C2-=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
From: "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
A friend of mine uses the Bose headsets in his 912 Titan. I flew beside him to Oshkosh last summer and thought the Bose wasn't quite what I expected. It was hard to understand him at times. I use a DRE Communications headset that is passive and he understands me all the time. I bought a pair of Lightspeed 20xl's and they are terrible in the Kolbra. The background noise is awful. If I bought another pair, I would go with the Telex Digital 50's. I have heard good reports about them in the 912 series engines. I notice DRE has come out with some later models that have ANR. Maybe that would be the way to go. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 23 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 2 years flying it 120 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288359#288359 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I notice DRE has come out with some later models that have ANR. Maybe that would be the way to go. Ralph Ralph/Gang: That is the DRE6000 ENR. Other day I referred to it as the ANR, but I wouldn't know the difference between the two designations. I've been flying with mine for several years. I have two sets. The older set works better than the new set, to me, but I have David Clark high dollar silicone ear seals. The new set has cheaper DC silicone seals. Biggest problem with any ANR or passive headset is making sure it has a good seal around your ears. Eye glass stems and base ball hats contribute to air leaks which reduce the performance of the head set. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 26, 2010
> Biggest problem with any ANR or passive headset is making sure it has a g ood > seal around your ears. > john hauck > mkIII > Titus=2C Alabama John H.=2C That's a very important you make there. In my Headsets Inc. installation instructions=2C they tell me I have to have the gel ear seals. Any other type of seal just won't work. Fortunately=2C in my case I already had the gel seals. Mike Welch MkIII ailerons and flap being reinstalled--permanently=2C this time _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Longo" <tclongo(at)att.net>
Subject: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 26, 2010
? I tried a set of Bose in my MKIII with a 582 on it and they did not work very good, noise is to high frequency in the Kolb. Comtronics headsets and intercom combo set up worked well. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mahesh Iyer Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:23 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Dear Kolbers, I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on Rotax engines in case anyone has used it. I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to upgrade. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Mahesh Iyer Kolb FS-2, Oregon. The joy of Flight =EF=BD=EF=BDNothing comes closer, it=EF=BDs a romance for life! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," the editor replied: *It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.* Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? What is your real world experience? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Perhaps you were looking at the wrong chart. I had a 582 that would burn 5 GPH but my 447 never burned more than 3 GPH or less. I do know for certain on a Firestar 2 and the 447 I regularly got 20 miles per gallon. I can assure you that I also flew at 6000 rpm's. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," the editor replied: It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed. Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? What is your real world experience? Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/26/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
At 05:47 PM 2/26/2010, Bob Kravis wrote: >It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least >30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should >the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes >an "emergency,".. >What is your real world experience? A 30 minute reserve may be fine for a GA aircraft that needs a 2000' (or more) paved runway to land, but is hardly necessary for a UL or UL-like aircraft that can land nearly anywhere. From any random point in the US, how far (in time) would you have to fly to reach a suitable airport for a GA plane? How far (again, in time) would you have to fly to where you can make a safe landing in a Kolb? If the latter number doesn't agree with the glide ratio and your altitude, you don't fly like I do. -Dana -- Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Larry, Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached). Bob On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis wrote: > I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel > reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to > the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," > the editor replied: > *It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at > least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, > should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it > constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest > airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled > long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.* > Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at > 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one > would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only > 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30 > mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would > be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? > What is your real world experience? > Bob > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just don't burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447? I am not experienced in a Firefly, but I can't see you using that amount of fuel at any setting under 6200. You should be able to fly 60 to 70 miles and still have a gallon of fuel left. Your best bet would be to do some checking on your own before you wander off to MV. I would take it up and fly around in the pattern, same altitude, same setting, timing your flight, land and check the fuel used. If there is no way to monitor the fuel used, start with a 30 minute flight. Once you figure out your consumption at say 6000 RPM, then you can check to see what setting will conserve the most fuel and still give you a suitable power setting. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's Larry, Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached). Bob On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis wrote: I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," the editor replied: It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed. Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? What is your real world experience? Bob get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/26/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: check list
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I am a new Fire Fly owner. Can some other Fire Fly pilots send me examples of the check lists they use for before taxi/take off and before landing/ shutdown. Thanks Pete lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 5:47 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel re serve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," the editor replied: It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, shoul d the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long be fore tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed. Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't ma ke a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest enduran ce would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? What is your real world experience? Bob ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Ellery B/Gang: What rpm? Was that cruise power on a cross country? or flying around the patch? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH Ellery Batchelder Jr. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Larry C/Gang: My single carb point ign 447 burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph at 5800 rpm cruise power on cross country flights. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just don't burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447? Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LEE CREECH <dcreech3(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 26, 2010
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Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
I have my logs and they indicate anywhere from 2.3 to 3.3 gph 447 on a firefly...with an empty wt of 292 lbs... ...Herb At 06:32 PM 2/26/2010, you wrote: >It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just >don't burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447? I >am not experienced in a Firefly, but I can't see you using that >amount of fuel at any setting under 6200. You should be able to fly >60 to 70 miles and still have a gallon of fuel left. > >Your best bet would be to do some checking on your own before you >wander off to MV. I would take it up and fly around in the pattern, >same altitude, same setting, timing your flight, land and check the >fuel used. If there is no way to monitor the fuel used, start with a >30 minute flight. Once you figure out your consumption at say 6000 >RPM, then you can check to see what setting will conserve the most >fuel and still give you a suitable power setting. >Larry > > >Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding >history, which includes my email address. >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>Bob Kravis >To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25 PM >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's > >Larry, >Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached). >Bob > >On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis ><bob.kravis(at)gmail.com> wrote: >I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about >fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response >to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with >"adequate reserve," the editor replied: >It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at >least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying >cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR >fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be >looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot >should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the >30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed. >Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 >gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in >still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to >fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption >rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring >airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but >how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? >What is your real world experience? >Bob > > >get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > >tp://forums.matronics.com > >_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >---------- >- Release Date: 02/26/10 07:34:00 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: baggage compartment
When I build the new fuel tank behind the seat on my UltraStar, I'm going to put a baggage compartment in the space where the original tanks were in front of the seat. I'm still debating how to make it. Thought are thin (1/8") plywood, fiberglassed over, or foamboard and glass, or plywood without glass, or aluminum and pop rivets. I'm leaning towards the aluminum at the moment, since I have some leftover Alclad and angle stock laying around. Any other suggestions? I intend to make it at least partially openable in flight. I've also thought of making it easily removable, and adding a handle, so I can call it a custom suitcase, not part of the empty weight of my Part 103 aircraft. -Dana -- But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
At 08:07 PM 2/26/2010, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: >Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3 >to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH My US with the Cuyuna burns 3.3 gph at cruise (56-5800 rpm). -Dana -- But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
This is why (IMO) bigger 2 strokes are better. I have a 582 in my MKIII, and at 65 mph and 5300 rpm, it burns about 4 gph or a hair less. Ed has a 582 on his FSII, and at the same speed he turns 5,000 and burns about 3.6 gph. When I flew to Oshkosh years ago, Ed & Dave had Drifters with 503's. To stay slow enough to not run away from the Drifters, I was turning the 532 about 5,000, they were running around 5,600 rpm. I consistently used less fuel than they did, even though I had dual carbs and they each just had one. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288435#288435 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
My Cuyuna ULII02 burned 3.5 gph at 5800 rpm on cross country flights. Any aircraft flying around the patch, shooting take offs and landings will burn much less than they do on a cross country. Many new pilots are surprised when the find out their engines are burning more than they thought they would. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama My US with the Cuyuna burns 3.3 gph at cruise (56-5800 rpm). -Dana ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
This is why (IMO) bigger 2 strokes are better. I have a 582 in my MKIII, and at 65 mph and 5300 rpm, it burns about 4 gph or a hair less. Ed has a 582 on his FSII, and at the same speed he turns 5,000 and burns about 3.6 gph. When I flew to Oshkosh years ago, Ed & Dave had Drifters with 503's. To stay slow enough to not run away from the Drifters, I was turning the 532 about 5,000, they were running around 5,600 rpm. I consistently used less fuel than they did, even though I had dual carbs and they each just had one. Richard Pike Richard P/Gang: I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise. My 582 powered mkIII cruised 80 mph at 5800 rpm and burned 5.5 gph. My 447 powered FS cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm and burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph. My ULII02 powered US cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm and burned 3.5 gph. My 912UL powered mkIII cruised 85 mph at 5,000 rpm and burned 4.0 gph. My 912ULS powered mkIII cruises at 88 mph at 5,000 rpm and burns 5.0 gph. I flew/fly all my two and four stroke engines at aprx'ly 75% power. They all were happy at that power setting and the airplanes and I were too. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Didn't finish the sentence below in my previous. "Many new pilots are surprised when they find out their engines are burning more during an actual longer cross country than they thought they would. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Many new pilots are surprised when the find out their engines are burning more than they thought they would. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Bob, When I had a 447 mounted on the FireFly, I flew it 108 mile round trips to my EAA Chapter meetings. The average for nine trips is given below. 5.71 Gallons burned per round trip MPG - 18.9 Air Time - 112 minutes GPH - 3.06 4/4.5 gallon endurance - 78/88 minutes Speed ground to ground - 57.9 mph 4/4.5 gallon range - 75/85 miles I hope this helps you out. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
When I had a 447 mounted on the FireFly, I flew it 108 mile round trips to my EAA Chapter meetings. The average for nine trips is given below. 5.71 Gallons burned per round trip MPG - 18.9 Air Time - 112 minutes GPH - 3.06 4/4.5 gallon endurance - 78/88 minutes Speed ground to ground - 57.9 mph 4/4.5 gallon range - 75/85 miles I hope this helps you out. Jack B. Hart FF004 ******************* Hi Guys: When you all are contributing info on fuel burn, need to include power setting, i.e., engine rpm. There is a great deal of difference in fuel burn on two and four stroke aircraft engines at low power settings and higher power settings. To me, 75% power is normal cruise. Seems most of the others who have contributed info on fuel burn, cruise much slower. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
John /Ellery/gang I flew my very clean Firestar KXP for ten years with a 50 3 and mostly saw-3.5- gal/hr BUT-only saw 75mph on a long decent 65 m ph most of the time was my straight and level speed=0A-Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr .com>=0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, February 26, 2010 8:20:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's=0A=0A=0AEllery B/Gang: =0A-=0AWhat rpm?=0A-=0AWas that cruise power on a cross country? or fly ing around the patch?=0A-=0Ajohn hauck=0AmkIII=0ATitus, Alabama=0A=0A=0A> Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3 -======================== ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
that was Cruise on cross country if I remember correctly around 5600 RPM @ 6250 RPM in Flat level flight I could get 97.3 MPH around 4.5 GPH Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 8:20 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's Ellery B/Gang: What rpm? Was that cruise power on a cross country? or flying around the patch? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH Ellery Batchelder Jr. ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Bob It really depends on the situation. Determine YOUR fuel burn. If you test your fuel system so you know when fuel runs out and you know your fuel gage is always accurate yes you can cut the minimums a bit. I say that but again it depends on what you are doing. I had a cross country flight in the UP of Michigan where there was no where to land. I was less than 2 miles to my fuel stop and I ran into a wall of fog. I had to turn around and fly almost an hour to find another runway. I have the standard 10 gallon tanks. When traveling I add a 6 gallon aux tank which I transfer in flight as soon as I can. I plan my fuel stops so that I have no less than 5 gallons on board and I burn 4 gal./hr. Running out of fuel in the air is a REALLY STUPID thing to do. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:47 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve," the editor replied: It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed. Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph? What is your real world experience? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > > Richard P/Gang: > > I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise. > > My 582 powered mkIII cruised 80 mph at 5800 rpm and burned 5.5 gph. > > My 447 powered FS cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm > and burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph. > > My ULII02 powered US cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm > and burned 3.5 gph. > > My 912UL powered mkIII cruised 85 mph at 5,000 rpm and burned 4.0 gph. > > My 912ULS powered mkIII cruises at 88 mph at 5,000 rpm and burns 5.0 gph. > > I flew/fly all my two and four stroke engines at aprx'ly 75% power. They > all were happy at that power setting and the airplanes and I were too. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama Happy for ya. If I was going half way across the country, I would ignore how much gas it burns and how comparatively unpleasant the ride is at 80 and run it at 5800 rpm too. Going to Oshkosh in the MKIII along with two pokey 503 powered Maxair Drifters had me running at 5,000 rpm and took 3 days. (groan) But since I am usually only going 30 or 40 miles to drop in on a local airstrip, and a MKIII with it's light wing loading enjoys leaping briskly about on a thermally day, 60 or 65 is a lot nicer, saves gas, and saves me from barfing. Since I only fly for pleasure, not to get somewhere, rolling with the thermal punches at 65 is nicer than playing "Test the shoulder harness" at 80. Aint it great? We can all butter our bread as it suits us. And since crankshaft bearing loads go up exponentially with RPM, I am satisfied that that a correctly propped 2 stroke will be happy anywhere in the RPM range, and the crank will last longer at 5,300 than at 5,800. I treat my 582 gently and with respect and I expect it to do the same for me. :) (John, I think we've had this dance before, and still can't seem to agree if it's a Cha-Cha or a Foxtrot... Hang in there buddy - two strokes are evil and must be PUNISHED!) Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288463#288463 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 27, 2010
> I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise. > > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama (John, I think we've had this dance before, and still can't seem to agree if it's a Cha-Cha or a Foxtrot... Hang in there buddy - two strokes are evil and must be PUNISHED!) Richard Pike ************* Richard P/Gang: Sorry about that. I think you took my reply the wrong way. I was not arguing with nor trying to out do you. Simply stating the way I flew and currently fly my airplanes. I fly normal cruise if I fly 11 miles from my strip to Wetumpka Airport. I fly normal cruise if I fly around the traffic pattern. There is more than one way to fly an airplane. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 02/26/10
Date: Feb 27, 2010
I think you all know the problems I have had with this rum rum 912 I have. I went to Aircraft Spruce's Open house last year and got a good deal on this insulation (top one). I used 3/8 and 5/8 both on just about everything inside, top and everywhere. Even put some directly under the engine. I purchased a sound meter and started taking readings. I eliminated approximately 15 to 20 db at my seat on the ground and in the air. I still had that damned rum rum but it was not as noticeable and well within my toleration level. Now, if the new muffler system from Aircraft Exhaust works the way the man says it will (not much I can do about it if he lied), I should knock off the harsh high pitches of the engine and bring it down a notch to very nice and maybe, just maybe, the rum rum will not be very pronounced. Gotta hope. Anyway, I am very happy with the insulation I bought and think it did a splendid job. It was hard to cut but it stuck on really nice with the spray glue type of adhesive I used. I would not pay those other prices until I KNEW what it was and how it would work. 1/8 inch of foam glued to the inside of your fuse will stop the drumming and 1/4 inch of a rubber type of foam under the center gape will do the same thing. Unless you just like to spend money, come on over Hawk and let me show you the stuff I used. I have some samples left. Nice stuff. Ted Cowan, Alabama 912UL zoom zoom. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/insulation.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 34 Msgs - 02/26/10
Date: Feb 27, 2010
My little sling shot 912 burns just a tad over 3 gals per hour at 4800/4900 rpm @ 85 mph. I am heavy for a slingshot, 500 lbs dry. My 582 would burn from 5.5 to 6.5 gph at 75 mph loaded for Florida. I carry a tank with a possible 9 gal reserve with electric transfer in my back seat plus luggage. That is why I love my little bird with its 912. I am going to get rich just flying it. Gotta wait until Tuesday to get my exhaust back. Will let everyone know how it tunes out. Ted Cowan, Slingshot 912UL, zoom zoom. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Sorry if I'm coming in late on this one. Don't get lulled into the "30 min reserve" will keep you safe! Been there, done that, bent the gear in a hayfield in TX. I was a heavy iron GA pilot and thought the FAA regs would keep me straight. Problem is the regs were written for planes that have cruise speeds of 120 mph plus. Planes that do 60 mph can't get as far as in 30 minutes. Throw in a little wind in the wrong direction and your options start to vanish quicker. Next airport just 30 minutes up the road can be well over 30 minutes with just a little bit of the wrong wind. Don't even think about mid morning radiant fog covering the airport when you get there. Yes you do have a lot more options of off-field landings. Farmers around here ain't friendly to ruining their cane fields. As wet as we have been down here, you couldn't get in and out till summer. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288475#288475 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: zeprep251(at)aol.com
Tom/list, I have used the performance of the intercom as a measure in judging headse ts.My 30+ year old David Clarks have a mike gain control (a small white pl astic screw near the grill on my H-10-30s) that the nice lady at DC said I could adjust to help stop transmitting cabin noise.I called them to see if their latest mics would be better at controlling noise.She said I alre ady had the best for this problem.I never noticed the adjusting screw,buri ed under the foam cover and leather boot I had installed over the years. Keeping the noise out of your ears with good seals ,DC makes some tapered eyeglass frame seals for that too,and keeping the noise out of the microp hone helped me the most. G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200 515hrs -----Original Message----- From: Tom Longo <tclongo(at)att.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 5:11 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax eng ines) ? I tried a set of Bose in my MKIII with a 582 on it and they did not work very good, noise is to high frequency in the Kolb. Comtronics headsets an d intercom combo set up worked well. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-ser ver(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mahesh Iyer Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:23 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engin es) Dear Kolbers, I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on Rotax engines in case anyone has used it. I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to upgrade. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Mahesh Iyer Kolb FS-2, Oregon. The joy of Flight =EF=BD=EF=BDNothing comes closer, it=EF =BDs a romance for life! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
> >Hi Guys: > >When you all are contributing info on fuel burn, need to include power >setting, i.e., engine rpm. There is a great deal of difference in fuel burn >on two and four stroke aircraft engines at low power settings and higher >power settings. To me, 75% power is normal cruise. Seems most of the >others who have contributed info on fuel burn, cruise much slower. > John, If you equate 75% power as 75% carburetor slide opening, the 447 will be running at max power. This is due to the fact that the Bing 54 carburetor is over sized for the engine. I found that the 447 will top out at 6,200 at about 34% with the throttle at the 34% position. If you equate 75% power relative to rpm, then .75 x 6,200 gives a cruise rpm of 4,650 rpm. From my flight log, I pulled out the data shown below. All of these flights were from and to Perryville and Painton, MO. You will notice that all of the rpms listed are greater than your 75%. The rpm/rpm indicates that a different rpm was set from the to and return flights. This difference as due to the gps indicated ground speed and the expected gps arrival time. If I had a head wind, I would crank in more rpm, etc. to get to the meeting on time. Date Fuel MPG Time RPM GPH MPH (gal) (min) Ave. Ave. 12/19/99 5.5 19.6 119 5,200 2.8 54.5 02/20/00 5.5 19.6 126 5,400 2.6 51.4 09/17/00 4.9 22.0 104 5,800 2.8 62.3 05/12/01 5.5 19.6 114 ?,??? 2.9 56.8 06/23/01 5.5 19.6 111 5,600 3.0 58.4 08/19/01 6.0 18.0 112 5,200/ 3.2 57.9 6,200 10/07/01 5.75 18.8 101 5,600 3.4 64.2 11/04/01 6.00 18.0 107 5,700/ 3.4 60.6 5,600 02/17/02 6.75 16.0 112 5,200 3.3 57.9 Averages 5.71 18.9 112 5,550 3.06 57.9 I hope this is enlightening. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Subject: New Video
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
I got lucky and scored a nice winter day, temps in the upper 40's, light winter winds, and a buddy willing to be videographer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMvpQRHS-0 Rick Girard ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Hello All, I have some very old off brand passive head sets and do not want to spend the money on a good pair. What I have done is purchased some $60 noise canceling earbuds (Audio Technica) and that has worked fairly well. I wear them under the headsets and I listen to the radio through the earbuds so the headsets are passive noise reduction and mic. I recently purchased an intercom box so I am going to try a different method of just using the earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening as well as talking because I now will have the volume available in the headset. I am sure this is not as good a solution as a good ANR headset, but you can definitely tell the difference between the ANR turned on and off in the earbuds. FWIW Jason MKIII Portland, OR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288493#288493 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
75%power would be a difficult measurement to acquire accurately. Static prop thrust wouldn't even be accurate due to inefficiencies with no forward motion. The only real way to do it would be on a dyno with no prop. If you had a magic strain gauge between the prop and hub you could get something useful in flight. On mine I just pull back a few rpm and settle for it. BB On 27, Feb 2010, at 10:36 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > >> >> Hi Guys: >> >> When you all are contributing info on fuel burn, need to include power >> setting, i.e., engine rpm. There is a great deal of difference in fuel burn >> on two and four stroke aircraft engines at low power settings and higher >> power settings. To me, 75% power is normal cruise. Seems most of the >> others who have contributed info on fuel burn, cruise much slower. >> > > John, > > If you equate 75% power as 75% carburetor slide opening, the 447 will be > running at max power. This is due to the fact that the Bing 54 carburetor > is over sized for the engine. I found that the 447 will top out at 6,200 at > about 34% with the throttle at the 34% position. > > If you equate 75% power relative to rpm, then .75 x 6,200 gives a cruise rpm > of 4,650 rpm. From my flight log, I pulled out the data shown below. All > of these flights were from and to Perryville and Painton, MO. You will > notice that all of the rpms listed are greater than your 75%. The rpm/rpm > indicates that a different rpm was set from the to and return flights. This > difference as due to the gps indicated ground speed and the expected gps > arrival time. If I had a head wind, I would crank in more rpm, etc. to get > to the meeting on time. > > Date Fuel MPG Time RPM GPH MPH > (gal) (min) Ave. Ave. > 12/19/99 5.5 19.6 119 5,200 2.8 54.5 > 02/20/00 5.5 19.6 126 5,400 2.6 51.4 > 09/17/00 4.9 22.0 104 5,800 2.8 62.3 > 05/12/01 5.5 19.6 114 ?,??? 2.9 56.8 > 06/23/01 5.5 19.6 111 5,600 3.0 58.4 > 08/19/01 6.0 18.0 112 5,200/ 3.2 57.9 > 6,200 > 10/07/01 5.75 18.8 101 5,600 3.4 64.2 > 11/04/01 6.00 18.0 107 5,700/ 3.4 60.6 > 5,600 > 02/17/02 6.75 16.0 112 5,200 3.3 57.9 > Averages 5.71 18.9 112 5,550 3.06 57.9 > > I hope this is enlightening. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: "joepilot503" <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Here is how I built my enclosure for a original firestar. I can take both doors off in seconds. It also has hand holds to grab above head to make easier to get in, I'm 215 lbs so I need all the help I can get :) I attached some pics, hope it helps. Brian [Arrow] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288503#288503 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010023_472.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010019_584.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010021_171.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise. > > > > > > > > > > > > john hauck > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > > > > > > (John, I think we've had this dance before, and still can't seem to agree if > it's a Cha-Cha or a Foxtrot... Hang in there buddy - two strokes are evil > and must be PUNISHED!) > Richard Pike > > ************* > > Richard P/Gang: > Sorry about that. > I think you took my reply the wrong way. > I was not arguing with nor trying to out do you. Simply stating the way I > flew and currently fly my airplanes. > I fly normal cruise if I fly 11 miles from my strip to Wetumpka Airport. > I fly normal cruise if I fly around the traffic pattern. > There is more than one way to fly an airplane. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama Nay nay, it was all in fun! I know you, I know how you are, you know me, you know how I am, - Hey, I see a chain, I think I'll pull it! (Not that you wouldn't) And here we go again! (May I have this dance?) [Laughing] It's all good. Finished getting the rust off the steel root rib for the left wing and welded up the hole for the clevis pin. Can you believe it was wallowed out to almost 3/8"? And somebody was flying it that way? So yes, there is more than one way to fly an airplane, in the case of this basket case we bought and cannibalized, by someone who apparently didn't mind rattling and flopping through the sky... [Rolling Eyes] Richard Pike N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288507#288507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Subject: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: Charles Davis <ceddavis(at)gmail.com>
My Firefly gets 2.5gph at 55 MPH turning 5300-5400 RPM. It's empty weight is about 280 lbs (from memory; too lazy to get my weight and balance). If Terry Franz is reading, I believe he's say's his 103 Firefly get's closer to 2.0 gph, but he's done more optimization then I have. Chuck Davis Firefly, N7057K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Jason I have a ANR kit that I added to my headset. It helps but I use Sony passive ear buds under my headsets to get even more noise reduction. They also do a much better job of sound reproduction than what I get with my Segtronics headsets. I'm currently operating out of a airport where there is a flight school staffed by instructors that use just passable English so the better I hear them fewer times I have to ask them to repeat those runway numbers. I have considered trying a set of those active noise canceling ear buds under my ANR headsets. Hey it might help? If nothing else when the headset battery craps out I would have a ear bud backup. Don't under estimate the benefit of what you are doing. Like all aviation products you have to pay for the lawyers and get very little if any benefit. I'm also going to look for some of those eye glass bow seals for my headsets. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) > > Hello All, > > I have some very old off brand passive head sets and do not want to spend > the money on a good pair. What I have done is purchased some $60 noise > canceling earbuds (Audio Technica) and that has worked fairly well. I > wear them under the headsets and I listen to the radio through the earbuds > so the headsets are passive noise reduction and mic. I recently purchased > an intercom box so I am going to try a different method of just using the > earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening as well as > talking because I now will have the volume available in the headset. I am > sure this is not as good a solution as a good ANR headset, but you can > definitely tell the difference between the ANR turned on and off in the > earbuds. > > FWIW > > Jason > MKIII > Portland, OR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288493#288493 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Strangely to me at least, I get better performance out of a Sigtronics S45 headset than I do from a DRE 6000 ANR. The mike is better and easier to understand for my wife, on the base station. Has anyone put an ANR kit in a pair of Sig's? Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Jason I have a ANR kit that I added to my headset. It helps but I use Sony passive ear buds under my headsets to get even more noise reduction. They also do a much better job of sound reproduction than what I get with my Segtronics headsets. I'm currently operating out of a airport where there is a flight school staffed by instructors that use just passable English so the better I hear them fewer times I have to ask them to repeat those runway numbers. I have considered trying a set of those active noise canceling ear buds under my ANR headsets. Hey it might help? If nothing else when the headset battery craps out I would have a ear bud backup. Don't under estimate the benefit of what you are doing. Like all aviation products you have to pay for the lawyers and get very little if any benefit. I'm also going to look for some of those eye glass bow seals for my headsets. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com> To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) <jason@trek-tech.com> > > Hello All, > > I have some very old off brand passive head sets and do not want to spend > the money on a good pair. What I have done is purchased some $60 noise > canceling earbuds (Audio Technica) and that has worked fairly well. I > wear them under the headsets and I listen to the radio through the earbuds > so the headsets are passive noise reduction and mic. I recently purchased > an intercom box so I am going to try a different method of just using the > earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening as well as > talking because I now will have the volume available in the headset. I am > sure this is not as good a solution as a good ANR headset, but you can > definitely tell the difference between the ANR turned on and off in the > earbuds. > > FWIW > > Jason > MKIII > Portland, OR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288493#288493 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/26/10 19:39:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
I have a Bose headset. Picked it up at Sun and Fun a couple years ago in a weak moment (they were throwing in a CD player for free, so my years of resisting the temptation finally ended!) I paid them off over a year. They're great in GA airplanes with Lycoming engines. They were totally ineffective in the MK3 with a Rotax 912. John is right. Get the DRE's with active noise reduction. We've got two sets in our Kolb and are very satisfied with them. Have fun! Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288547#288547 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 27, 2010
I hope this is enlightening. Jack B. Hart FF004 I have been enlightened. Thanks, will try to explain the way I do it somewhat later tonight. Right now it is time for the Atlanta Supercross Live. ;-) john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Here is how I built my enclosure for a original firestar. *************** The original Firestar top longeron was straight from one end to the other. I noticed yours is drooped in the front, similar to the FSII. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Here is how I built my enclosure for a original firestar. *************** The original Firestar top longeron was straight from one end to the other. I noticed yours is drooped in the front, similar to the FSII. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: "joepilot503" <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Yes it is, I lowered the sides when I restored it for easier entry. Also did the wing mods with the alum angle/.035 LE & TE/wing tip mod/lateral bracing. Here is my site with photos of rebuild you can see all the the mods I did. www.brianskolbfirestar.comlu.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288570#288570 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Off List
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Aha.... Larry I did put a ANR in my Sigtronics. Oh I did misspell them. Se below. They work very good. Rick Neilsen ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Strangely to me at least, I get better performance out of a Sigtronics S45 headset than I do from a DRE 6000 ANR. The mike is better and easier to understand for my wife, on the base station. Has anyone put an ANR kit in a pair of Sig's? Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Jason I have a ANR kit that I added to my headset. It helps but I use Sony passive ear buds under my headsets to get even more noise reduction. They also do a much better job of sound reproduction than what I get with my Segtronics headsets. I'm currently operating out of a airport where there is a flight school staffed by instructors that use just passable English so the better I hear them fewer times I have to ask them to repeat those runway numbers. I have considered trying a set of those active noise canceling ear buds under my ANR headsets. Hey it might help? If nothing else when the headset battery craps out I would have a ear bud backup. Don't under estimate the benefit of what you are doing. Like all aviation products you have to pay for the lawyers and get very little if any benefit. I'm also going to look for some of those eye glass bow seals for my headsets. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com> To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) <jason@trek-tech.com> > > Hello All, > > I have some very old off brand passive head sets and do not want to spend > the money on a good pair. What I have done is purchased some $60 noise > canceling earbuds (Audio Technica) and that has worked fairly well. I > wear them under the headsets and I listen to the radio through the earbuds > so the headsets are passive noise reduction and mic. I recently purchased > an intercom box so I am going to try a different method of just using the > earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening as well as > talking because I now will have the volume available in the headset. I am > sure this is not as good a solution as a good ANR headset, but you can > definitely tell the difference between the ANR turned on and off in the > earbuds. > > FWIW > > Jason > MKIII > Portland, OR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288493#288493 > > > > > > > > > > nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic p; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - www.avg.com 02/26/10 19:39:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HShack(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
I fly the same headset as you; you will not find anything quieter. A friend of mine who has to have the very best of everything thought that more$ = better. He bought that $1k Bose, then retired it for a QC. Howard Shackleford FS II SC In a message dated 2/26/2010 1:25:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, miyer2u(at)yahoo.com writes: I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on Rotax engines in case anyone has used it. I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to upgrade. Any feedback is appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Off List
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Aha.... Larry I did put a ANR in my Sigtronics. Oh I did misspell them. Se below. They work very good. Rick Neilsen ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Cottrell To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Strangely to me at least, I get better performance out of a Sigtronics S45 headset than I do from a DRE 6000 ANR. The mike is better and easier to understand for my wife, on the base station. Has anyone put an ANR kit in a pair of Sig's? Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) Jason I have a ANR kit that I added to my headset. It helps but I use Sony passive ear buds under my headsets to get even more noise reduction. They also do a much better job of sound reproduction than what I get with my Segtronics headsets. I'm currently operating out of a airport where there is a flight school staffed by instructors that use just passable English so the better I hear them fewer times I have to ask them to repeat those runway numbers. I have considered trying a set of those active noise canceling ear buds under my ANR headsets. Hey it might help? If nothing else when the headset battery craps out I would have a ear bud backup. Don't under estimate the benefit of what you are doing. Like all aviation products you have to pay for the lawyers and get very little if any benefit. I'm also going to look for some of those eye glass bow seals for my headsets. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com> To: Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) <jason@trek-tech.com> > > Hello All, > > I have some very old off brand passive head sets and do not want to spend > the money on a good pair. What I have done is purchased some $60 noise > canceling earbuds (Audio Technica) and that has worked fairly well. I > wear them under the headsets and I listen to the radio through the earbuds > so the headsets are passive noise reduction and mic. I recently purchased > an intercom box so I am going to try a different method of just using the > earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening as well as > talking because I now will have the volume available in the headset. I am > sure this is not as good a solution as a good ANR headset, but you can > definitely tell the difference between the ANR turned on and off in the > earbuds. > > FWIW > > Jason > MKIII > Portland, OR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288493#288493 > > > > > > > > > > nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic p; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - www.avg.com 02/26/10 19:39:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Yes it is, I lowered the sides when I restored it for easier entry. Also did the wing mods with the alum angle/.035 LE & TE/wing tip mod/lateral bracing. Here is my site with photos of rebuild you can see all the the mods I did. www.brianskolbfirestar.comlu.com Brian/Gang: Wish I had had those mods on my FS wings 20 years ago next month. I might still be flying it if I had. They look good. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
Date: Feb 28, 2010
----- > > Brian/Gang: > > Wish I had had those mods on my FS wings 20 years ago next month. I might > still be flying it if I had. > > They look good. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > Brian, That does look like first class work on your Firestar, always a pleasure to see the work of real craftsman. Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Very nice work and worthwhile mods. I'm curious about your fuel tank. What are the dimensions and capacity? -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288587#288587 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly full enclosure
From: "joepilot503" <joepilot503(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Thanks guys for the compliments. Thom as far as the dimensions of the tank I would guess about 13 x 16, It's 8 gal. Let me know if you need exact dimensions I'll measure it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288596#288596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines)
From: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Jason Omelchuck wrote: > I am going to try a different method of just using the earbuds for noise canceling and the headsets for listening > It sounds to me like the noise canceling will be trying to cancel the sound of the radio. -------- GeoB "Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288638#288638 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Feb 28, 2010
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > If you equate 75% power as 75% carburetor slide opening, the 447 will be running at max power. This is due to the fact that the Bing 54 carburetor is over sized for the engine. Also note that this carb, like MANY others, has no linear relationship between throttle-slide movement and cross-sectional area of the throttle bore opened. Butterfly carbs have a similar problem. I thought there was an 'official' definition of 75% power. I don't recall for sure but it seemed like it was something like 100% rpm, then back off 10% rpm. -------- GeoB "Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288641#288641 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
> >Richard P/Gang: > >I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise. > >My 582 powered mkIII cruised 80 mph at 5800 rpm and burned 5.5 gph. > >My 447 powered FS cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm >and burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph. > >My ULII02 powered US cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm >and burned 3.5 gph. > >My 912UL powered mkIII cruised 85 mph at 5,000 rpm and burned 4.0 gph. > >My 912ULS powered mkIII cruises at 88 mph at 5,000 rpm and burns 5.0 gph. > >I flew/fly all my two and four stroke engines at aprx'ly 75% power. They >all were happy at that power setting and the airplanes and I were too. > John, >From being on the list for a few years, I questioned your 75% power cruise statement because it countered my impression of how you flew your planes. I checked with http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines and using the numbers proved from the various engine model spec sheets this is what I found. engine max hp max hp .75 max .75 max |John's hp % max model (cont') rpm hp rpm | rpm (dev') hp 582 65 6,500 49 5,300 |5,800 61 94 447 40 6,500 30 5,200 |5,800 37 93 912ul 79 5,500 59 4,000 |5,000 74 94 912uls 95 5,500 71 4,200 |5,000 89 94 Approximately 75%? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Feb 28, 2010
>From being on the list for a few years, I questioned your 75% power cruise statement because it countered my impression of how you flew your planes. Jack B. Hart FF004 OK john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Subject: 75% Power
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
By definition it is when or at what conditions the engine is producing 75% of its rated power. You calculate what that would be, on my 582 it's about 48 HP and according to the graph in the Rotax operations manual for the two strokes on page 10-3 that occurs at about 5200 RPM. Rick Girard ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
71 hp divided by 12 hp per gal per hour...comes to abt 5.9 gals hour... Seems a bit high...I am guessing that the 912uls burns about 5.5 gals hour at 75 % power? Herb At 04:10 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote: >--=======AVGMAIL-29A51582====== >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > >From being on the list for a few years, I questioned your 75% power cruise >statement because it countered my impression of how you flew your planes. >Jack B. Hart FF004 > > >OK > >john hauck >mkIII >Titus, Alabama > > >--=======AVGMAIL-29A51582====== >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=======AVGMAIL-1D000391=======" > >--=======AVGMAIL-1D000391====== >Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Disposition: inline >Content-Description: "AVG certification" > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >34:00 > >--=======AVGMAIL-29A51582=======--

      
      
      
--=======AVGMAIL-1D000391=======-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
The power curve in Rotax (and other engine manuals) shows the maximum power available for that engine at that RPM at sea level on a standard day, not the actual power being produced at that rpm under other conditions. The actual power being produced at a given rpm depends upon two primary variables. One is the density altitude and the other is the prop loading. The power curve is valid only at DA of zero and at wide-open-throttle (WOT). The actual power being produced in straight and level cruise at normally encountered density altitudes at partial throttle is less than that shown on the power curve. John's 75% power at 5,000 rpm are pretty close at typical DAs in lowlands knowing he pitches his prop generally for 5500 rpm WOT in S&L flight. At a density altitude of about 8,000' the 912 engines will produce only 75% of rated power with WOT at 5,500 rpm, not 5,000 rpm. As you go higher still, the maximum available power continues to decrease. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288716#288716 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
From: "Ralph B" <ul15(at)juno.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
This is got to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a long time ... Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 23 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 2 years flying it 120 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288730#288730 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
What is? No image or link came thru On Mar 1, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Ralph B wrote: > > This is got to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a long > time ... > > Ralph > > -------- > Ralph B > Original Firestar 447 > N91493 E-AB > 1000 hours > 23 years flying it > Kolbra 912UL > N20386 > 2 years flying it > 120 hrs > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288730#288730 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Russ, This.... http://vimeo.com/6194911 -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288737#288737 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
> This is got to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a long time ... > > Ralph Yeah=2C Ralph=2C that's what I thought=2C too. Thom says you may be able t o buy a kit from the guy that built it. I wouldn't think it is very cheap =2C though. But=2C still.....it is a nice toy=2C and we all need more toy s!! Kolb guys in general=2C I have a question regarding flaps on a MkIII. For those of you with flap s on your plane=2C you know I'm reinstalling my wings=2C tailfeathers=2C et c=2C now that the Poly Fiber/paint is finished. I just got the flaps and ailerons rehung this last weekend. I notived th at if you stand behind the flap(s)=2C you can get a fair amount of "reflex" by pushing them up. I assume that with a load on the wings=2C the flaps w ill flex upward=2C unless you preset them slightly lower. So=2C here's my question for you guys that have flaps on your Kolb planes =3B are your flaps adjusted slightly low=2C to account for upward flexing =2C or do you not worry about it=2C and just set them flat with the undersi de of the wing=2C even though they will flex up while in flight? Thanks=2C Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vic" <vicsv(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: 75% Power
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Anyone Does it matter how you determine 75% power if your prop is pitched for cruise? Do you still use engine rated HP and max rpm? Vic 912ul Xtra ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Just the opposite, Mike W. Air coming over the top of the wing pushes down on the flaps when they are in the neutral position. If you kick the flap handle out of the detent, while in flight, the flaps will fly about half way between neutral and 20% (middle flap position), maybe less. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama I assume that with a load on the wings, the flaps will flex upward, unless you preset them slightly lower. Thanks, Mike Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
From: "clrprop" <ktony(at)windstream.net>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
re: the hexacopter A friend in my rc club has met the guy and says it costs $1800.00 p.s. The scale model of my MarkIII is almost finished. Keath T S.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288749#288749 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Thom Riddle wrote: > The power curve in Rotax (and other engine manuals) shows the maximum power available for that engine at that RPM at sea level on a standard day, not the actual power being produced > I hear you saying that to be very close to actual 75% power you would have to solve an equation that relates temp, humidity, altitude and prop attributes. It sounds like if you had a glass panel you could have a read-out of your %-power. Funny! It doesn't even involve the engine! Thanks for your post. -------- GeoB "Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288768#288768 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Setting flap position
Date: Mar 01, 2010
John=2C Kolb guys=2C So I assume you suggest just setting the flaps to be in line with the und erside of the wings=2C straight from wing leading edge to flap trailing edg e? Thanks=2C Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
GeoB, As I've said either here or elsewhere, I think one of the easiest ways to know what your current engine power output is under whatever conditions you are flying, is a fuel flow meter. A 4-stroke engine maintained and operated according to the manufacturer's instructions will consume roughly .45 lbs (+ or - .03 lbs) of gasoline per hour per HP being produced. For example: An engine with rated sea level max continuous power of 80 HP, when running at 75% power (60 HP), no matter what the rpm or density altitude required to make that power, will be consuming approximately 4.2 - 4.8 US gallons per hour. If your 4-stroke engine is burning less than that your engine is producing less than that amount of power. Again, assuming it is maintained and operated properly. Another way to look at it is each US gallon/hour is equivalent to roughly 12 1/2 to 14 hp. Most Rotax 2-stroke engines run closer to .6 lb/hp/hr BSFC. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288773#288773 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Setting flap position
Date: Mar 01, 2010
I adjust my flaps about even with the ailerons and the bottom of the wing. During test flights I can see where the flaps and ailerons are flying, then adjust to suit my tastes. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama So I assume you suggest just setting the flaps to be in line with the underside of the wings, straight from wing leading edge to flap trailing edge? Thanks, Mike Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Brett Janaway <brett@xtc-paragliding.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
You are going to have to explain that to me. I understood we had high pressure 'under' the wing and low 'above' the wing, so I can't see how the flaps would be pushed down. I can understand staying neutral with the airflow or the weight of the flap pulling it down as they have no balance weight, but not being pushed down by the airflow surely??? Brett MkIIIc On 01/03/2010 16:31, John Hauck wrote: > Just the opposite, Mike W. > Air coming over the top of the wing pushes down on the flaps when they > are in the neutral position. If you kick the flap handle out of the > detent, while in flight, the flaps will fly about half way between > neutral and 20% (middle flap position), maybe less. > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Thom Riddle wrote: > GeoB, > > As I've said either here or elsewhere, I think one of the easiest ways to know what your current engine power output is under whatever conditions you are flying, is a fuel flow meter. A 4-stroke engine maintained and operated according to the manufacturer's instructions will consume roughly .45 lbs (+ or - .03 lbs) of gasoline per hour per HP being produced. > > For example: > An engine with rated sea level max continuous power of 80 HP, when running at 75% power (60 HP), no matter what the rpm or density altitude required to make that power, will be consuming approximately 4.2 - 4.8 US gallons per hour. If your 4-stroke engine is burning less than that your engine is producing less than that amount of power. Again, assuming it is maintained and operated properly. Another way to look at it is each US gallon/hour is equivalent to roughly 12 1/2 to 14 hp. > > Most Rotax 2-stroke engines run closer to .6 lb/hp/hr BSFC. Thom, math is the weakest of all my weak skills, so given that I typically burn 4 gph at 5300 rpm, how do I set up the equation (using a 2-stroke) to figure out how much horsepower I am using to do it? Knowing the answer to that tells me how much horsepower it takes to push my MKIII at 63-65 mph. Thanks, Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288790#288790 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Richard, Assuming my statement is correct, that most Rotax 2-stroke engines use about .60 lbs of fuel per hour per horsepower, you take the known fuel consumption of 4 GPH and multiply it by 6 lbs/ US gallon to get 24 lbs/hour fuel consumption. 4 GPH x 6 lbs/US gallon = 24 lbs/hour Then divide the 24 lbs/hr by the approximate .60 Brake Horsepower Specific Consunption (BSFC) figure as follows: 24 lbs/hour / .6 lb = 40 HP It turns out to be pretty easy math to do in your head with a 2-stroke BSFC of about .6 since each US gallon of fuel weighs 6 lbs. If your 2-stroke engine if you throttle back to 3.5 gph your engine is producing approximately 35 HP. In other words, about 10 HP per GPH. I hope this helps. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288792#288792 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
OOOPs. BSFC stands for Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. I got my words twisted around and mixed up. Aging ungracefully, as you can plainly tell. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288793#288793 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Have no explanation other than that is the way it is. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama You are going to have to explain that to me. I understood we had high pressure 'under' the wing and low 'above' the wing, so I can't see how the flaps would be pushed down. I can understand staying neutral with the airflow or the weight of the flap pulling it down as they have no balance weight, but not being pushed down by the airflow surely??? Brett MkIIIc On 01/03/2010 16:31, John Hauck wrote: Just the opposite, Mike W. Air coming over the top of the wing pushes down on the flaps when they are in the neutral position. If you kick the flap handle out of the detent, while in flight, the flaps will fly about half way between neutral and 20% (middle flap position), maybe less. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Kutta condition from many may years ago in my Aero 1 class claimed...Pressure distribution on most conventional camber airfoils actually is downward near the trailing edge at positive angles of attack. Would expect to free float downwards a few degrees even without the weight moment best I can remember... ----- Original Message ----- From: Brett Janaway To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating You are going to have to explain that to me. I understood we had high pressure 'under' the wing and low 'above' the wing, so I can't see how the flaps would be pushed down. I can understand staying neutral with the airflow or the weight of the flap pulling it down as they have no balance weight, but not being pushed down by the airflow surely??? Brett MkIIIc On 01/03/2010 16:31, John Hauck wrote: Just the opposite, Mike W. Air coming over the top of the wing pushes down on the flaps when they are in the neutral position. If you kick the flap handle out of the detent, while in flight, the flaps will fly about half way between neutral and 20% (middle flap position), maybe less. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Thom I don't mean to throw cold water on you calculations but. Throttled engines waste a lot of power working against the vacuum behind the throttle plate. I have no idea how much fuel is burned at idle throttle but your power per fuel burn calculations would be off the charts. A calculation of 75% power by fuel consumption needs to take into account of this non liner fuel efficiency and might give you only 70-73% power. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's > > GeoB, > > As I've said either here or elsewhere, I think one of the easiest ways to > know what your current engine power output is under whatever conditions > you are flying, is a fuel flow meter. A 4-stroke engine maintained and > operated according to the manufacturer's instructions will consume roughly > .45 lbs (+ or - .03 lbs) of gasoline per hour per HP being produced. > > For example: > An engine with rated sea level max continuous power of 80 HP, when running > at 75% power (60 HP), no matter what the rpm or density altitude required > to make that power, will be consuming approximately 4.2 - 4.8 US gallons > per hour. If your 4-stroke engine is burning less than that your engine is > producing less than that amount of power. Again, assuming it is maintained > and operated properly. Another way to look at it is each US gallon/hour is > equivalent to roughly 12 1/2 to 14 hp. > > Most Rotax 2-stroke engines run closer to .6 lb/hp/hr BSFC. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 64x32 > > > An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. > - Friedrich Engels > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288773#288773 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Thanx Thom On Mar 1, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > Russ, > > This.... > http://vimeo.com/6194911 > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 64x32 > > > An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. > - Friedrich Engels > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288737#288737 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating
If you can find one of those computer-generated color charts showing pressure distribution over an a/c, you'll see what John describes. If you can find a Thorp T-18 driver, you can see it in action. The canopy on a low wing plane is an airfoil, too. The fresh air *intake* on a Thorp is at the lower back edge of the sliding canopy. The breeze coming forward is so strong, it will part the hair on the back of your head. Charlie On 3/1/2010 12:50 PM, Bob wrote: > Kutta condition from many may years ago in my Aero 1 class > claimed...Pressure distribution on most conventional camber airfoils > actually is downward near the trailing edge at positive angles of > attack. Would expect to free float downwards a few degrees even > without the weight moment best I can remember... > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Brett Janaway brett@xtc-paragliding.com> > *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 10:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: not Kolb related but fascinating > > > You are going to have to explain that to me. I understood we had > high pressure 'under' the wing and low 'above' the wing, so I > can't see how the flaps would be pushed down. I can understand > staying neutral with the airflow or the weight of the flap pulling > it down as they have no balance weight, but not being pushed down > by the airflow surely??? > > Brett > MkIIIc > > > On 01/03/2010 16:31, John Hauck wrote: >> Just the opposite, Mike W. >> Air coming over the top of the wing pushes down on the flaps when >> they are in the neutral position. If you kick the flap handle >> out of the detent, while in flight, the flaps will fly about half >> way between neutral and 20% (middle flap position), maybe less. >> john hauck >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote: > Throttled engines waste a lot of power working against the vacuum behind the throttle plate. This is true. On the other hand, at full throttle, higher rpm, the engine wastes a great deal of power on internal pumping losses. Do these tend to counter one another? I think not, because I assume any measurements of an engine's fuel consumption would be affected by these losses already. If I were looking for an engine's best BSFC I think I'd look at or near the torque peak. On many charts I have seen that is the place where it occurs. If this is true, then perhaps the BSFC is always calculated at less than full throttle. Maybe this loss to the throttle plate is accounted for already? I don't know. My diesel has a lot less engine braking than a gas rig, particularly at low rpms because it has no throttle plate. These MPG competition cars (don't know their real name) are not throttled. They use a large carb (or injector?) bore. They simply shut the engine off, disengage it from the driving wheels, and coast until they need power again. They size the engine to the course, taking into account the altitude and any hills on the course they must climb. -------- GeoB "Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288816#288816 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Rick, You are correct about it not being linear over a wide RPM range but it is close enough for first order estimates at any reasonable cruise RPM. There is usually one most efficient engine rpm, i.e., the rpm at which the engine produces the most amount of power for each ounce of fuel consumed. Attached is an image from a Rotax 2-stroke manaul showing how the BSFC varies with RPM for the 582. Notice that it is most efficient at about 5,700-5,800 rpm. This assumes a correct prop loading among other things. Since the number I quoted is really only valid at or near normal cruise RPM, where it is most efficient, the efficiency drops off somewhat on either side of that RPM, as you can see on the cruve. BUT the BSFC and the known fuel consumption with a little arithmetic does give a rough estimate of the HP being produced during cruise at any altitude. The RPM alone is not a very good prediction of HP being produced over a wide range of density altitudes, at least not as good as fuel consumption in normal cruise rpm range. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288817#288817 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/582_bsfc_curve_775.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Subject: 447 EGT's
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis(at)gmail.com>
Looking at the Rotax Operator's Manual<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d04085.pdf> online I see on page 10-1 (which is page 37 of the .pdf) that they do not list parameters for EGT for the 447. Does anybody know why? Perhaps in the hard-copy edition it is listed? Do you know what the max., normal range and difference between cylinders values are? Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
At 01:50 PM 3/1/2010, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: >I don't mean to throw cold water on you calculations but. Throttled >engines waste a lot of power working against the vacuum behind the >throttle plate. I have no idea how much fuel is burned at idle throttle >but your power per fuel burn calculations would be off the charts. A >calculation of 75% power by fuel consumption needs to take into account of >this non liner fuel efficiency and might give you only 70-73% power. That makes sense... if it's 0.6 lb/hp-hour, then at 3.3gph (cruise at 5700 rpm) my Cuyuna should be producing 33hp... a wee bit more than 75% power... -Dana -- Capital punishment: people in the Capitol need to be punished... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Subject: Re: 447 EGT's
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
In the Installation Manual, 10.3 EGT Max is 650 C (1200 F). Rick Girard On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Bob Kravis wrote: > Looking at the Rotax Operator's Manual<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d04085.pdf> online > I see on page 10-1 (which is page 37 of the .pdf) that they do not list > parameters for EGT for the 447. Does anybody know why? Perhaps in the > hard-copy edition it is listed? Do you know what the max., normal range and > difference between cylinders values are? > Bob > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Subject: New Camera Mounv
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Yesterday was overcast and windy so I put my energy into a new camera mount for a pilot's eye view. Rick Girard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: New Camera Mounv
Date: Mar 01, 2010
I don't know if you have tried it out yet, but I could never mount any camera that I used there without a foam pad under it. Even stabilization would not do it for me. Perhaps yours is smoother than mine was. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 5:36 PM Subject: Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv Yesterday was overcast and windy so I put my energy into a new camera mount for a pilot's eye view. Rick Girard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/28/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
> >Most Rotax 2-stroke engines run closer to .6 lb/hp/hr BSFC. > >-------- Thom, .6 lb/hp/hr <- shouldn't the units be lb/hr/hp ? Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
At 09:53 PM 3/1/2010, Jack B. Hart wrote: >.6 lb/hp/hr <- shouldn't the units be lb/hr/hp ? Should be .6 lbs/(hp*hr) -Dana -- Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
lets face it...you are not going to get much more than 12 hp per gal per hour... :-) Herb At 09:18 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote: >At 09:53 PM 3/1/2010, Jack B. Hart wrote: > >>.6 lb/hp/hr <- shouldn't the units be lb/hr/hp ? > >Should be .6 lbs/(hp*hr) > >-Dana >-- > Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine. > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >03/01/10 19:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
. 6 pounds of fuel burnt for each hour spent running your engine at one horsepower output. .6 pounds of fuel burnt for each horsepower your engine outputs for one hour of running time. Same-Same to me. I personally don't care which order you put the units in. The resulting HP estimate will be the same. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288892#288892 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Subject: Re: New Camera Mounv
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
First, should have been camera mounT. Oops. Second, you may be right, although I've done my best to damp out prop and engine vibration at the source, I'll know this afternoon if I need to add vibration damping at the camera end, too. Rick Girard On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > I don't know if you have tried it out yet, but I could never mount any > camera that I used there without a foam pad under it. Even stabilization > would not do it for me. Perhaps yours is smoother than mine was. > Larry > > Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, > which includes my email address. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Girard > *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 5:36 PM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv > > Yesterday was overcast and windy so I put my energy into a new camera mount > for a pilot's eye view. > > Rick Girard > > ------------------------------ > - www.avg.com > 07:34:00 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mark.shimei" <mark.shimei(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
I cruise my Ultrastar at 4400rpm,burn 2 gph at 50mph. Takeoff max RPM is 6000. EGT is just below 1200,CHT is under 290deg. Gauges were checked for accuracy,I thought they were off. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
lets face it...you are not going to get much more than 12 hp per gal per hour... This is the fuel consumption chart for the 912 ul Bottom scale is 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000 Right scale lb/hp.hr from bottom up is .5, .55, .6, .65 So do I interpret this to say the harder you push a 912 the less fuel it burns per HP per hour? And if I interpolate correctly, is around 4.8 lb/hp.hour Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Boyd, The image is too small to see. If you have a larger version, please post it. I can't find a BSFC graph for the 912 engines in any recent manuals. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288919#288919 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Thom- Lockwood's catalogue has copies of the Rotax fuel comsumption charts. - You'll need your glasses to read them. - ------------------------- ------------------------- - Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- - Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------- - FS 447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Question: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning
A friend of mine who does a lot of research re: aircraft and engines said t hat he has been talking with mechanics who service industrial air cooled en gines in manufacturing plants. He was told that they spray ATF Transmission fluid into the carburators (with the engine running) to decarbon.- Has anyone ever heard of this - or tried it? Arty TrostSandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Bill, My 2006-7 Lockwood catalogue shows fuel consumption for the 912 series engines only as a GPH curve. I think the older catalogues showed the BSFC curve like on the 2-stroke engines but I threw them away after I got this "new" one at Lockwood's 912 school around that time. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288926#288926 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning
- It used to be the start of a tune-up on older automobiles to warm up th e engine and spray water or a light oil like ATF into the carb.- I have t ried the water, and the steam will blow all the carbon loose.- It's done at a high idle, and then you make a couple of high RPM runs and watch the f laming carbon go out the tailpipe.- I almost set a corn field on fire doi ng this- big chunks of carbon throwing sparks.- It also gets carbon all o ver the plugs, which then have to be cleaned/changed.- I do not know if a Rotax will put up with this.- Supposedly the oils also work (including M arvel Mystery Oil), but I haven't tried them.- Newer cars have a catalyti c converter, and any oil could ruin the converter. - ------------------------- -------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------------- FS 447 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
- Thom- I put my glasses on to read the fine print, and you are right.- They do use different ways to chart the fuel consumption in Lockwood's 200 7-2008 book.- I wonder why Rotax uses the two systems? - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -----------------Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ---------------- FS 447 ------------------------- ---------------- 50 degrees, and nice ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
I guess its been a tough spring every where. You guy's are putting a lot of effort and thought into something that is only going to be a WAG for your individual planes and the way that you fly them. Perhaps I am a bit strange as I have never found any of the charts and info from Rotax to be much more than a generalization. Perhaps it is the result of my altitude. I also doubt that many of you actually fly at 75% of power, I know that I don't, I seem to require more than a hole in the sky to satisfy my apparently jaded outlook. But its much better than having a P match. Keep up the good work! Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's Thom- I put my glasses on to read the fine print, and you are right. They do use different ways to chart the fuel consumption in Lockwood's 2007-2008 book. I wonder why Rotax uses the two systems? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 50 degrees, and nice ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/02/10 07:34:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Kmet" <jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Depends ,,,,,,,,, what broke the cable ?. : ) Jim Kmet 912 MK-3C Cookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Jim Good point. Lets assume something like corrosion. Are there other things that could fail? Seems like John H uses something like a 5/16 cable. I saw one MKIIIC built with no kidding a 1/4 inch cable (defiantly not recommended). A weld could fail some where. Let me perfectly clear I think a plans built plane that is maintained isn't going to have a problem. Just wondered if flying inverted could save the day if a up elevator cable broke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Kmet To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Depends ,,,,,,,,, what broke the cable ?. : ) Jim Kmet 912 MK-3C Cookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Rick/Gang: I use 1/8" up elevator cable, and have since I built my mkIII in 1991. Two years ago I discovered the 3/32 cable stretched considerably, reducing up elevator travel when flying two up in the newest MKIIIx. We changed to 1/8" cable and eliminated the problem. Did not compute difference in weight of the larger cable, but would think it would be negligible and well worth the weight penalty. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Seems like John H uses something like a 5/16 cable. Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hauck's picture
From: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Just opened the March copy of Sport Aviation and on the back page is a great picture of John's plane in Alaska. It's the "member photo of the month". Rex Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288957#288957 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: check list
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
A friend helped me with the following lists. Something to start with anyways: START 1. Seat belts FASTENED 2. Fuel Prime / Choke ON 3. Master Switch ON 4. Clear Prop Area 5. Ignition Switch START 6. Choke OFF 7. Intercom Switch ON 8. Radio ON, EMER channel, AWOS, airport freq TAXI / BEFORE TAKEOFF 1. Brakes CHECK 2. Instruments CHECK a. ELT STANDBY b. Altimeter set to airport altitude 3. Flight controls CHECK 4. Doors closed and secure 5. CHT within range BEFORE LANDING 1. Fuel level CHECK 2. Undercarriage CHECK 3. Instruments/switches CHECK 4. Seatbelts Fastened AFTER LANDING 1. ELT check EMER channel to verify NOT activated 2. ELT - OFF SHUT DOWN 1. Radio OFF 2. Intercom Switch OFF 3. Master Switch OFF 4. Ignition Switch OFF and Key OUT -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288961#288961 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
>As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator c able broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up >upright. >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC Rick=2C Good idea about a topic change. Regarding losing an up-elevator cable=2C you would NOT need to try to fly inverted. For me=2C I'd think that's a g uaranteed way to die. When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license=2C my instruc tor Loren (a girl)=2C used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinn ing the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set t he trim to a slight decending postion=2C and control altitude with engine s peed. For aileron loss=2C we'd open a door. For a left turn=2C push the left d oor way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn=2C you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't s pin on a dime=2C but you darn sure have "some" control! Back when I was able to fly quite frequently=2C I used to practice these types manuevers. They're kind of fun. At least you'd know what to do if y ou ever needed to. I also liked to practice slight turns=2C right at the verge of stall. I' d set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could=2C stall horn blaring=2C and then do lots of left and right turns. My forward speed was practicall y nothing=2C when viewed from the ground=2C I'd bet! Practicing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart. Th e pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event. IMO Mike Welch MkIII CX _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Hauck's picture
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Just opened the March copy of Sport Aviation and on the back page is a great picture of John's plane in Alaska. It's the "member photo of the month". Rex *********** Thanks, Rex: I have known about it for a month, but EAA asked me to keep it under my hat until the mag was published this month. That was hard to do. You all have seen that particular photo many times over the years since it was shot in July 2004. Living at the end of the "mail mule train" I'll get my copy in a couple weeks. The digital copy is not up on the EAA web site, but you can see the Feb copy there. john hauck MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Boyd, The image is too small to see. If you have a larger version, please post it. I can't find a BSFC graph for the 912 engines in any recent manuals. -------- Thom Riddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This chart is a part of the pdf attachment. I added the numbers so they could be read easily. Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Now I can read it. All this says is that the efficiency peaks at about 5500 RPM, with approximately .45-.48 (eye-ball accuracy) lbs of fuel burned per hour per HP being produced. Since the curve goes up at lower speeds it will consume more fuel per HP produced at all slower speeds. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288969#288969 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hauck's picture
From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
John Hauck wrote: > > Living at the end of the "mail mule train" I'll get my copy in a couple > weeks. > > > john hauck > MKIII > Titus, Alabama I thought I lived at the end, but I got my copy today. That picture is so cool! and even cooler that it is in the magazine! -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288970#288970 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <by0ung(at)brigham.net>
Subject: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where it is much less likely to break or even stretch. Boyd Young ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Emergency Procedures
At 05:04 PM 3/2/2010, b young wrote: >Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way >back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable >broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max... I set the fixed trim tabs (bent aluminum) for a reasonably slow speed, around 40mph, figuring an otherwise controlled landing at that speed would be survivable. Then I use a bungee to the elevator bellcrank for down trim to offset that for normal flight. -Dana -- +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Emergency Procedures
On final into a box canyon airstrip, I lost a rudder cable. With a tailwhee l E-LSA - not a good thing! I was able to land without damage, but it made me decide to start practicing emergency maneuvers. I have a mechanical trim tab (on the elevator) on my Drifter, and I found I was able to land using only the trim tab and throttle - no elevator input. I also practiced landing without a rudder - and, easiest of all, landing w ithout aileron. I still practice these maneuvers each flying season, as wel l as true dead stick landings. It makes me feel much more confident that ev en if I miss something in my pre-flight, I'll probably be able to land. Arty TrostSandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Mike Welch wrote: From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Date: Tuesday, March 2, 2010, 12:41 PM =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A>As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by-flying in verted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and e nd up >upright. =0A-=0A>Rick Neilsen-=0A>Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC=0A-=0A-=0A- Ri ck,=0A-=0A- Good idea about a topic change.- Regarding losing an up-e levator-cable, you would NOT need to try to fly inverted.- For me, I'd think that's a guaranteed way to die.=0A-=0A- When I was learning how t o fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to m ake me practice things such as you describe.- You can control the up elev ator with trim.- You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get c ontrol.- All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decen ding postion, and control altitude with engine speed.=0A-=0A- For ailer on loss, we'd open a door.- For a left turn, push the left door way out i nto the wind (with left rudder).- You will turn left!!- For a right tur n, you do the right door (and rudder)-the same way.- You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control!=0A-=0A- Back when I-wa s able-to fly quite frequently, I used to practice these types manuevers. - They're kind of fun.- At least you'd know what to do if you ever need ed to.- =0A- I also liked to practice slight turns, right at the verge of stall.- I'd set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could, stall ho rn blaring, and then do lots of left and right turns.- My forward speed w as practically nothing, when viewed from the ground, I'd bet!=0A-=0A- P racticing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart.- The pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event.- IMO=0A-=0AMike Welch=0AMkIII CX=0A-=0A- =0A -=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with ect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.=0A ==================0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Mike W/Gang: What works for a 172 doesn't necessarily work for a Kolb. After you get your mkIII flying, give your 172 emergency procedures a try, then let us know how they worked out for you and your Kolb. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decending postion, and control altitude with engine speed. For aileron loss, we'd open a door. For a left turn, push the left door way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn, you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control! Mike Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Mike, since the stock MkIII trim is only a spring load on the cable, I doubt it would help much. As for going inverted, that sure doesn't sound appealing. :) BB On 2, Mar 2010, at 3:41 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > >As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up >upright. > > >Rick Neilsen > >Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > > Rick, > > Good idea about a topic change. Regarding losing an up-elevator cable, you would NOT need to try to fly inverted. For me, I'd think that's a guaranteed way to die. > > When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decending postion, and control altitude with engine speed. > > For aileron loss, we'd open a door. For a left turn, push the left door way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn, you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control! > > Back when I was able to fly quite frequently, I used to practice these types manuevers. They're kind of fun. At least you'd know what to do if you ever needed to. > I also liked to practice slight turns, right at the verge of stall. I'd set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could, stall horn blaring, and then do lots of left and right turns. My forward speed was practically nothing, when viewed from the ground, I'd bet! > > Practicing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart. The pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event. IMO > > Mike Welch > MkIII CX > > > > > > > > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with ect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fly-in's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Gary, George, Other Florida Kolbs We have been rained out most of the winter. Gary A and I have discussed starting our own Flyin Saturday March 6th at Arcadia, FL. How about it anyone interested????? This is totally dependant on weather. We will check on Friday and give a go/no go. We can reschedule as necessary but lets get together. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251(at)aol.com To: NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Fly-in's Rick, Sounds like a plan to me.I'll confirm on Friday in case of any change. See you then! G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net> To: zeprep251(at)aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 11:59 am Subject: Re: Fly-in's Gary I don't see anything this Saturday. May be we should create one? How about Arcadia? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251(at)aol.com To: NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Fly-in's Rick, Looks like a flyable Saturday may happen this week.Any events anywhere? G.Aman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Videos
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Sorry, the other link did not work unless you are on Facebook. This one will take you to my Blog where the video can be viewed by anyone. It is flying related, just not a Kolb, but it is fun. http://owyheeflyer.blogspot.com/ As for the tumbleweeds, I am sure that I have plenty, I have done an attempt to poison them, time will tell, but I have $200.00 invested in herbicide. I also overhauled the tie down cables. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fly-in's
Date: Mar 02, 2010
I'd consider flying down with a bit more notice. It's about 465 sm, would take me at least a day to fly down, a day at the flyin, and a day to fly home. Weather is always a factor, and has been terrible in the SE this winter. Let me know your final plans and I'll see what I can work out to get there. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama We have been rained out most of the winter. Gary A and I have discussed starting our own Flyin Saturday March 6th at Arcadia, FL. How about it anyone interested????? This is totally dependant on weather. We will check on Friday and give a go/no go. We can reschedule as necessary but lets get together. Rick Neilsen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Videos
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Hello all... I did post a couple of new ones if anyone is interested.... http://www.youtube.com/user/ces308 it was a nice day in Mi today.. chris ambrose M3X/jabiru A-2200 103. HRS n327cs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289001#289001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Boyd/Gang: That wasn't an original idea. Kolb used redundant cables, then decided it was overkill and eliminated them. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where it is much less likely to break or even stretch. Boyd Young ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Outboard motors { two stroke ones } recommend decarboning this way. They of course sell there own stuff in a spray can. I have used this and had good results without any spark plug problems. I would of course change plugs after a bit of ground running in the Kolb ..I am braver on the water than in the air .My biggest concern would be what was going into the exhaust system and would it stay there and maybe cause a partial blockage Downunder MK111c ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 6:09 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning It used to be the start of a tune-up on older automobiles to warm up the engine and spray water or a light oil like ATF into the carb. I have tried the water, and the steam will blow all the carbon loose. It's done at a high idle, and then you make a couple of high RPM runs and watch the flaming carbon go out the tailpipe. I almost set a corn field on fire doing this- big chunks of carbon throwing sparks. It also gets carbon all over the plugs, which then have to be cleaned/changed. I do not know if a Rotax will put up with this. Supposedly the oils also work (including Marvel Mystery Oil), but I haven't tried them. Newer cars have a catalytic converter, and any oil could ruin the converter. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lhaggerty" <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: 447
Date: Mar 03, 2010
How can I tell if I am looking at a point breaker 447 or a SDI 447 engine. Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Denny Rowe" <rowedenny(at)windstream.net>
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
Date: Mar 03, 2010
John, Are you refering to the continuous cable that goes from the stick, to the up elevator horn and back forward to the elevator trim lever? If so, how does Kolb do it now? Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Boyd/Gang: That wasn't an original idea. Kolb used redundant cables, then decided it was overkill and eliminated them. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where it is much less likely to break or even stretch. Boyd Young ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Subject: Re: Emergency Procedures
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
About 15 years ago Kolb added a tab for the trim connection to the side of the elevator bell crank. The problem with running the cable all the way from front to rear is that when you use the trim, the elevator cables go slack. That was how my airplane was rigged when I bought it, I added the tab and the problem went away. Rick Girard On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Denny Rowe wrote: > John, > Are you refering to the continuous cable that goes from the stick, to the > up elevator horn and back forward to the elevator trim lever? If so, how > does Kolb do it now? > Denny Rowe, Mk-3, PA > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* John Hauck > *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures > > Boyd/Gang: > > That wasn't an original idea. Kolb used redundant cables, then decided it > was overkill and eliminated them. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way > back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable > broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the > stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the > normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where > it is much less likely to break or even stretch. > > > Boyd Young > > * * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Subject: New Camera Mount
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Seems to work okay. Between the rubber pads on the Adel clamps and the neoprene washer I put between the camera and the mount the vibration seems to be manageable. Rick Girard ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: check list
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Sometimes folks get really religious about check lists. As long as you are checking everything before flight that could get you killed if not right, then you are doing a good check list. That said, I would add the following comments about your list. 1) Checking the fuel level before flight is more important than checking it before landing. 2) I didn't see a mag check in the pre-take-off check. 3) During your take-off roll make sure you are developing normal RPM, if not ABORT. Do not get airborne if your engine is not developing normal RPM. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289033#289033 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Brett Janaway <brett@xtc-paragliding.com>
Subject: Re: check list
Here is the list I use. it is a good size when printed for on my knee board; There is also a 2nd sheet where I jot the basics of each flight down as i do them. It is in Excel so you can modify it for your own use. Brett On 03/03/2010 14:04, Thom Riddle wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" > > Sometimes folks get really religious about check lists. As long as you are checking everything before flight that could get you killed if not right, then you are doing a good check list. > > That said, I would add the following comments about your list. > 1) Checking the fuel level before flight is more important than checking it before landing. > 2) I didn't see a mag check in the pre-take-off check. > 3) During your take-off roll make sure you are developing normal RPM, if not ABORT. Do not get airborne if your engine is not developing normal RPM. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY


February 19, 2010 - March 03, 2010

Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-jg