Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ly
November 03, 2011 - November 22, 2011
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ly
November 03, 2011 - November 22, 2011
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 03, 2011
i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the aux
output on the intercom.. , sigtronics spo22n, and running the wires under
the ear cup seals. at least for a test, before i connected them into the
headset. as far as impedance,,, most ear buds, because they are placed in
the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be just as
loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in the
headsets. the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in how
they are connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker. i have
nothing but a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole.
instead of hard wiring them into the headset,,, i have wondered about a
small magnetic coupled connection, kind of like the new apple computer
laptop is using for the charging cable. this would eliminate ripping
something loose should it get pulled by accident.
opinions welcome
boyd young
\mkiii utah/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter
& plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the
headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.
In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit
that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 03, 2011
The biggest problem that I have using a headset is that most are not
tight enough to the head to keep out the unwanted noise. David Clarks
however are painful to me because they squeeze my head, Sigtronics and
all the others that I have tried are too loose. I need to check into a
chin strap I guess. Keep us posted with what you find out Boyd.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: b young
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into
the aux
output on the intercom..
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2011
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added
the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and
plugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my
passenger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction
as ear plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so
it works very well. I have been flying with this set up for about four
years but now I occasionally loose one or both the ear bud connections and
have to wiggle the adapters to get it working again. Richard P has
developed a elegant solution but I wounder if a jack in the head set or in
the intercom for the ear buds might be a better long term solution. I'm
also getting close to wearing out the Sony ear buds and would not look
forward to soldering in a new set with each change. Those tiny wires are a
real pain with my fat fingers. I have never lost a ear seal from the ear
buds but I have discovered at least with the Sony buds that the little
handle on the ear buds bumps against the head set and isn't comfortable so
I have scored and broken off the little ear bud handles.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, b young wrote:
>
> i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the
> aux output on the intercom.. , sigtronics spo22n, and running the wires
> under the ear cup seals. at least for a test, before i connected them into
> the headset. as far as impedance,,, most ear buds, because they are
> placed in the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be
> just as loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in
> the headsets. the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in
> how they are connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker. i have
> nothing but a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole.
> instead of hard wiring them into the headset,,, i have wondered about a
> small magnetic coupled connection, kind of like the new apple computer
> laptop is using for the charging cable. this would eliminate ripping
> something loose should it get pulled by accident.
> opinions welcome
>
> boyd young
> \mkiii utah/
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter
> & plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the
> headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.
> In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit
> that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 03, 2011
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added the
headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and plugged
two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my passenger. The
ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction as ear plugs but
do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so it works very well.
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
I did that for a while, but ran out of patience with the plethora of wires. I have
a low confusion tolerance, and I was always getting something tangled up.
Probably it is just me... Anyway, splicing the earbuds into the headset eliminated
the overabundance of wires.
OTOH, before I spliced them into the headset, I could plug the earbuds into the
mp3 player, which was nice if I was going off by myself with no expectation to
talk to anybody. That option is no longer available.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356833#356833
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 03, 2011
[quote="lcottrell"]The biggest problem that I have using a headset is that most
are not tight enough to the head to keep out the unwanted noise. David Clarks
however are painful to me because they squeeze my head, Sigtronics and all
the others that I have tried are too loose. I need to check into a chin strap
I guess. Keep us posted with what you find out Boyd.
Larry
> ---
You can use the Armstrong method on that stainless steel strap that runs over the
top of the head, you know - fine tune the tension a bit.
Along with that - was brain storming with a friend the other night - I am using
silicon gel filled ear cushions on the head set - why would it not work to get
a second set of gel filled cushions and then use some of that foamy double stick
tape and stack the foam cushions atop one another to make things more comfortable?
Feedback?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356834#356834
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 03, 2011
Rick,
You wore the David Clarks when we rode in my MK3.Were they enough to be com
fortable or have I become accustomed to the din the Jabiru produces?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 3, 2011 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added
the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and pl
ugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my passe
nger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction as ear
plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so it wor
ks very well. I have been flying with this set up for about four years but
now I occasionally loose one or both the ear bud connections and have to wi
ggle the adapters to get it working again. Richard P has developed a elegan
t solution but I wounder if a jack in the head set or in the intercom for t
he ear buds might be a better long term solution. I'm also getting close to
wearing out the Sony ear buds and would not look forward to soldering in a
new set with each change. Those tiny wires are a real pain with my fat fin
gers. I have never lost a ear seal from the ear buds but I have discovered
at least with the Sony buds that the little handle on the ear buds bumps ag
ainst the head set and isn't comfortable so I have scored and broken off th
e little ear bud handles.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, b young wrote:
i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the aux
output on the intercom.. , sigtronics spo22n, and running the wires unde
r the ear cup seals. at least for a test, before i connected them into the
headset. as far as impedance,,, most ear buds, because they are placed
in the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be just a
s loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in the head
sets. the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in how they a
re connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker. i have nothing bu
t a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole. instead of
hard wiring them into the headset,,, i have wondered about a small magneti
c coupled connection, kind of like the new apple computer laptop is using
for the charging cable. this would eliminate ripping something loose shoul
d it get pulled by accident.
opinions welcome
boyd young
\mkiii utah/
I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter
& plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the
headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.
In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit
that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.
Charlie
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 03, 2011
OTOH, before I spliced them into the headset, I could plug the earbuds into
the mp3 player, which was nice if I was going off by myself with no
expectation to talk to anybody. That option is no longer available.
--------
Richard Pike
>>>>>>>>>>>>
plug the mp3 into the aux input in the intercom. best of both worlds.
listen to music and talk to ATC.
boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 03, 2011
I have in fact done that very thing several times, just not enough
spring steel in Sigtronics to do the job I guess. I am thinking about
some Velcro on each headset and a comfortable strap. Got the Velcro, no
such thing as a comfortable strap as of yet.
Actually my S45's do enough of a job to be tolerable, better for me than
the DRE's, I do like to listen to music, and do so every chance I get,
Quieter would still be very nice though and I am ready to listen (pun
intended) and adapt every viable option.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pike
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> ---
You can use the Armstrong method on that stainless steel strap that
runs over the top of the head, you know - fine tune the tension a bit.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 03, 2011
byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote:
>
> plug the mp3 into the aux input in the intercom. best of both worlds.
> listen to music and talk to ATC.
>
> boyd young
I tried that, but never could get enough volume. Don't know why.
Talk to ATC? I put in 30 years BEING ATC, I don't want to talk to them unless I
need them. Which at the altitudes I fly, I mostly don't. I know how good their
radar is, and I know how to hide from it...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356853#356853
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2011
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
>
>
>Pick up some earbuds at your favorite big box store or drugstore, and glue
the most comfortable silicon earpieces in place. if you don't glue them in
place, they will come off the earbuds, fall out of your ear, and then into
the recesses of your Kolb. Guess how I know this?
>
Richard,
I have the same type of hearing problem. I tried the ear buds but I could
not keep them located in my ears. I went to a hearing aid salesman and
asked him to make me some ear molds. He did. I never got around to
mounting the ear buds, but I believe they will take care of the fall out
problem. Also, by making the right adaptor, one could use them while flying
and on the lawn mower too, and may be get by just using ordinary muff ear
protectors.
Now if I can just find them....
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 04, 2011
>
>
>
> I have the same type of hearing problem. I tried the ear buds but I could
> not keep them located in my ears. I went to a hearing aid salesman and
> asked him to make me some ear molds. He did. I never got around to
> mounting the ear buds, but I believe they will take care of the fall out
> problem. Also, by making the right adaptor, one could use them while flying
and on the lawn mower too, and may be get by just using ordinary muff ear protectors.
>
> Now if I can just find them....
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
You can make your own molded ear plugs fairly cheaply, and mold them to fit around
the ear buds, but it may take you more than one attempt. I bought several
sets of these Radians moldable ear plugs
http://www.amazon.com/Radians-Custom-Molded-Earplugs-Red/dp/B002XULPSQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1320411520&sr=8-2
and experimented with them. They are perhaps a bit quieter, not sure, but I could
not come up with a combination that stayed comfortable for any length of time
under the pressure of the head set. And they are tricky to get to fit when
you are trying to insert them and dealing with the short length of wire. Or maybe
I didn't mold them right.
I would mold the flexible stuff around the earbud and then have my wife help me
to get them properly seated in the ear, where it would set up in just a few minutes.
It was one of those things that almost worked. Since the plain earbuds
fit my ears ok and don't fall out, I decided that is good enough.
You can buy the silicone tips for earbuds in various sizes, and in my case, one
size fits very well, and the others either fall out or are uncomfortable. I assume
you have already experimented with this?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356882#356882
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 04, 2011
how about mounting a set of ear buds in something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Sonic-Defenders-Medium-Clear/dp/B0012XT8B6
/ref=pd_sim_sg_3
the link has better photo, and if you scroll down there are other
options one of the options has a flap with a plug that would fit in
the hole, so i am nearly sure they are hollow into the ear canal.
been doing some searching for magnetic coupled connectors,,,, and found
some patents and line drawings on what i would like to use to connect
the ear buds to the inside of the headsets, but haven't been able to
find a supplier. still looking.
boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2011
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Gary
Seems like I reported that your Jabiru powered MKIII was close to
the quietest I have flown in. Let me qualify that by saying that you added
a bunch of sound absorbing foam and it seems like your high quality head
sets had the active noise cancelling kit installed. I have ringing in my
ears all the time but after exposure to high noise levels it get worse for
a bit. I don't remember that I noticed any extra ringing after flying in
your plane but it was, what three years ago.
The nosiest Kolb I ever flew in was a 503 powered MKIIIC with a cheep head
set/intercom that had non standard plugs that I couldn't plug my Sigtronics
into. At full throttle (which we did a lot of) the noise was down right
pain full. The quietest Kolb was John H's MKIIIC. My theory is that big
fuel tank mounted high in the cage is a large viscus mass
that absorbs sound and noise producing vibration before it gets to the
cockpit. I don't remember the headset I used but I don't think he had and
active noise canceling in the passenger headset. That 912S was just a soft
purr, well maybe a bit higher pitch. I compare it to the old factory
MKIIIC demonstrator (fat albert) with the 912 which always got my ears
ringing.
One configuration of my VW powered MKIIIC was actually quieter than John
H's. It was the high mount redrive VW. The high mount used the same
Rotax style vibration dampers but the engine was mounted high over the
Rotax mount so as to allow clearance to the oil sump on the bottom of the
engine. The engine kind of floated on the mount twisting a bit under power.
One of the dampers failed after about a hundred hours. The noise level was
so low with the 3200 engine RPM at cruise and 2000 RPM prop that I actually
took my headset off for the briefest moment to see how bad it was.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Gary Aman wrote:
> Rick,
> You wore the David Clarks when we rode in my MK3.Were they enough to be
> comfortable or have I become accustomed to the din the Jabiru produces?
> G.Aman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
> To: kolb-list
> Sent: Thu, Nov 3, 2011 2:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
>
> I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I
> added the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters
> and plugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my
> passenger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction
> as ear plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so
> it works very well. I have been flying with this set up for about four
> years but now I occasionally loose one or both the ear bud connections and
> have to wiggle the adapters to get it working again. Richard P has
> developed a elegant solution but I wounder if a jack in the head set or in
> the intercom for the ear buds might be a better long term solution. I'm
> also getting close to wearing out the Sony ear buds and would not look
> forward to soldering in a new set with each change. Those tiny wires are a
> real pain with my fat fingers. I have never lost a ear seal from the ear
> buds but I have discovered at least with the Sony buds that the little
> handle on the ear buds bumps against the head set and isn't comfortable so
> I have scored and broken off the little ear bud handles.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, b young wrote:
>
>>
>> i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the
>> aux output on the intercom.. , sigtronics spo22n, and running the wires
>> under the ear cup seals. at least for a test, before i connected them into
>> the headset. as far as impedance,,, most ear buds, because they are
>> placed in the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be
>> just as loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in
>> the headsets. the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in
>> how they are connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker. i have
>> nothing but a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole.
>> instead of hard wiring them into the headset,,, i have wondered about a
>> small magnetic coupled connection, kind of like the new apple computer
>> laptop is using for the charging cable. this would eliminate ripping
>> something loose should it get pulled by accident.
>> opinions welcome
>>
>> boyd young
>> \mkiii utah/
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter
>> & plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the
>> headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.
>> In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit
>> that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ====**==============================**=
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**==============================**=
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
> ic.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> .buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> tor?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 04, 2011
Rick,
Adding all that Denso- Foam made the difference,in the center section in pa
rticular. I think you are right about the liquid killing the noise in John'
s plane.Took a tour of Kennedy space center last year and one of the intere
sting pieces of information I recalled was the massive amounts of water the
y poured on the launch pad at lift-off.I thought it was to cool the pad,but
they said no,it was to control the noise. I still need to insulate the are
as behind the fuel tanks.I have the foam,will carry it south with me this y
ear and maybe get to it.
Maybe meet up again with you and some of the guys that are local.
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200a
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 11:32 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Gary
Seems like I reported that your Jabiru powered MKIII was close to the quiet
est I have flown in. Let me qualify that by saying that you added a bunch o
f sound absorbing foam and it seems like your high quality head sets had th
e active noise cancelling kit installed. I have ringing in my ears all the
time but after exposure to high noise levels it get worse for a bit. I don'
t remember that I noticed any extra ringing after flying in your plane but
it was, what three years ago.
The nosiest Kolb I ever flew in was a 503 powered MKIIIC with a cheep head
set/intercom that had non standard plugs that I couldn't plug my Sigtronics
into. At full throttle (which we did a lot of) the noise was down right pa
in full. The quietest Kolb was John H's MKIIIC. My theory is that big fuel
tank mounted high in the cage is a large viscus mass that absorbs sound and
noise producing vibration before it gets to the cockpit. I don't remember
the headset I used but I don't think he had and active noise canceling in t
he passenger headset. That 912S was just a soft purr, well maybe a bit high
er pitch. I compare it to the old factory MKIIIC demonstrator (fat albert)
with the 912 which always got my ears ringing.
One configuration of my VW powered MKIIIC was actually quieter than John H'
s. It was the high mount redrive VW. The high mount used the same Rotax sty
le vibration dampers but the engine was mounted high over the Rotax mount s
o as to allow clearance to the oil sump on the bottom of the engine. The en
gine kind of floated on the mount twisting a bit under power. One of the da
mpers failed after about a hundred hours. The noise level was so low with t
he 3200 engine RPM at cruise and 2000 RPM prop that I actually took my head
set off for the briefest moment to see how bad it was.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Gary Aman wrote:
Rick,
You wore the David Clarks when we rode in my MK3.Were they enough to be com
fortable or have I become accustomed to the din the Jabiru produces?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 3, 2011 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added
the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and pl
ugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my passe
nger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction as ear
plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so it wor
ks very well. I have been flying with this set up for about four years but
now I occasionally loose one or both the ear bud connections and have to wi
ggle the adapters to get it working again. Richard P has developed a elegan
t solution but I wounder if a jack in the head set or in the intercom for t
he ear buds might be a better long term solution. I'm also getting close to
wearing out the Sony ear buds and would not look forward to soldering in a
new set with each change. Those tiny wires are a real pain with my fat fin
gers. I have never lost a ear seal from the ear buds but I have discovered
at least with the Sony buds that the little handle on the ear buds bumps ag
ainst the head set and isn't comfortable so I have scored and broken off th
e little ear bud handles.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, b young wrote:
i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the aux
output on the intercom.. , sigtronics spo22n, and running the wires unde
r the ear cup seals. at least for a test, before i connected them into the
headset. as far as impedance,,, most ear buds, because they are placed
in the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be just a
s loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in the head
sets. the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in how they a
re connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker. i have nothing bu
t a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole. instead of
hard wiring them into the headset,,, i have wondered about a small magneti
c coupled connection, kind of like the new apple computer laptop is using
for the charging cable. this would eliminate ripping something loose shoul
d it get pulled by accident.
opinions welcome
boyd young
\mkiii utah/
I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter
& plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the
headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.
In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit
that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.
Charlie
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Advisory Circular 150/5345-27D
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 04, 2011
Thanks for your inquiry. The standard for windsocks is found in FAA Advisory Circular
150/5345-27D. This says the windsocks have to indicate the proper direction
at wind speeds as low as 3 knots and the windsock is supposed to stand
straight out at speeds between 14 and 17 knots.
When we changed vendors we made some observations of the competing windsocks.
I dont think you can really judge the wind speed by looking at the windsock, but
you can get a pretty good idea of the direction.
Mn/DOT
651.226.2043
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356925#356925
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc01797_135.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 04, 2011
byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote:
> how about mounting a set of ear buds in something like this
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Sonic-Defenders-Medium-Clear/dp/B0012XT8B6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3 (http://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Sonic-Defenders-Medium-Clear/dp/B0012XT8B6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3)
>
> boyd young
>
How about if you got some small diameter silicone tubing - the size that they use
on model airplanes - attach it to the passage that runs through the Sonic Defender
insert and let it extend to outside and below the headset cushion, and
then attach the ear bud at that point? Hanging a few inches below the headset
muff, with the tubing lying between your head and the headset cushion. Attach
the ear bud wires to the head set as described in my previous post. Now the ear
bud is not being smashed up against your ear by the inside of the headset,
and you ought to have the best of both worlds. Sound dampening from the headset
and from the insert both. Thoughts?
One caveat: some earbuds have an opening in the back for some sort of acoustic
reason - if you used it in this manner, would it be better to seal that up? Would
that not let sound pass through the earbud and on up the tube?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=356928#356928
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 04, 2011
One caveat: some earbuds have an opening in the back for some sort of
acoustic reason - if you used it in this manner, would it be better to seal
that up? Would that not let sound pass through the earbud and on up the
tube?
--------
Richard Pike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
is the opening in the back an air passage way to eliminate pressure
differences in the inner ear to the outside air pressure,,
boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today!
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of
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Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lee Morgan" <lmorgan100(at)charter.net>
Subject: seat material
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Hi everyone, I am in the process of repairing everything in the cockpit of a
Twinstar Mark II, I am looking for a source for the material used on the
seats.
thanks,
Lee..
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: seat material
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Lee,
If Kolb Aircraft can't fix you up, maybe try these folks; (you even
have a choice of colors!)
http://www.funspot.com/trampoline_fabric.php?source=Google_trampoline_fa
bric
Mike Welch
On Nov 6, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Lee Morgan wrote:
> Hi everyone, I am in the process of repairing everything in the
cockpit of a Twinstar Mark II, I am looking for a source for the
material used on the seats.
> thanks,
> Lee..
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ultralight News video
From: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Just got thru watching the Ultralight News video by Dan Johnson on the new Firestar
Side by Side and I thought I would share with the group in case nobody had
seen it. Seems to me like they covered it pretty good and I hope it sells well
for Kolb Aircraft.
Travis Bennett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HJkjLcuNF8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357072#357072
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2011
From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Breeze up the boom tube
I have yet to test or see the practicality of it, but has anyone either tried to
either narrow the opening in the back so as to create more or equal venturi
effect than exist in the cabin. I agree that the simplest and easiest is to create
a plug at the opening, but since we are experimental why not annoy ourselves
by doing the hard stuff too.
Just bored waiting for house to sell so I can get to
Florida
In Beautiful wonderful Arizona, don't you just wanna buy a home here and live here
and enjoy sunny Aviation all year around?
Hehehehehehe I got a house for sale for you if you do.
Ron @ KFHU
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2011
From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Strut Fairings
Some while ago a member posted a video connection to some Brit experimenting with
faired and unfaired flying wires the difference in his tests were just as amazing.
I don't remember the link but its well worth looking it up in the archives again.
Elliptical or Tear drop is way more aerodynamic than round.
Ron @ KFHU
==================================
---- FIRESTARII wrote:
============
:D [Shocked] WOW Guys and Gals! When I purchased my FSII it came with two sets
of wing struts, one with fairings and one without. The struts with the fairings
were off a FS that went into the intra coastal water ways, thus salt water.
I was very leery of that so I was not comfortable using them so I have
been flying with the non-faired struts. I was however curious as to what impact
they would actually have. So I removed the fairings from the struts and installed
them on the ones I have been flying with. I just landed after an hour
and a half flight with them installed and WOW is all I can say! Very much to
my surprise they made an ENORMOUS difference! The airplane was way smoother
cruised a good 10 MPH indicated better. The biggest surprise was in glide, best
glide, best as I can figure based purely on feel is about 45-48 indicated.
The difference was astonishing, at lest to me! In a totally non scientific,
seat of the pants, guess, I bet it was 30% farther.!
Now mind you I am guessing here but to not only see, but feel a difference so
significant just amazed me. I'll never fly with out them again! Cruise speed
to jumped a good 10MPH at 5500 and the airplane just "Felt" smoother to me.
WOW! Any way I just thought I would let every body know what a difference
it made on my airplane and highly recommend them to any one not currently using
them! Let me know if you guys have seen such a difference and what else you
can recommend to further improve my FSII. Fly safe and have fun every body!
--------
Low and Slow FireStar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354135#354135
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2011
From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Strut Fairings
Thanks Dennis No sooner I post my reply and you give the link.
GMTA :-)
Ron @ KFHU
====================
---- Dennis Thate wrote:
============
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354144#354144
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2011
From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Off field landings
Very nice.
---- Mystic wrote:
============
I've been having fun playing "Bush pilot" in my Firestar. Maybe too much fun....
Broke it down to 3 parts on youtube. Check it out when you've got a few minutes
to kill.
BTW, My 447 is loving the change in weather. Needle is back to th middle, temps
are back up in the green, and she's climbing like we stole somthing!
John Tempest
Firestar "Classic"
447
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_hb2hQbklg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlYBOxyX5Xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rox7IObjwXc
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354255#354255
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Subject: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/05/11
I made a small contribution last week. Wondering if you received it???
BCG
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: seat material
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Call Kolb Aircraft and talk to Travis I am sure he can fix you up with any
of your needs for anything on a kolb 1-606-862-9692
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Morgan <lmorgan100(at)charter.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2011 7:43 am
Subject: Kolb-List: seat material
Hi everyone, I am in the process of repairing everything in the cockpit of
a Twinstar Mark II, I am looking for a source for the material used on the
seats.
thanks,
Lee..
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: seat material
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
I Like Hi-tech foams,Jim Fix.He carries all kinds including sound absorbin
g and has Temper foam,the stuff they use in the Shuttle seats.He'll ask you
what you weigh and make up a 2 or 3 layer cushion custom for you.Not cheap
but boy is it worth it!
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A pampered tush
ginal Message-----
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2011 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: seat material
Lee,
If Kolb Aircraft can't fix you up, maybe try these folks; (you even have
a choice of colors!)
http://www.funspot.com/trampoline_fabric.php?source=Google_trampoline_fab
ric
Mike Welch
On Nov 6, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Lee Morgan wrote:
Hi everyone, I am in the process of repairing everything in the cockpit of
a Twinstar Mark II, I am looking for a source for the material used on the
seats.
thanks,
Lee..
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"; style="color: blue; text-decoratio
n: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Kolb-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slingshot
From: Brad Renter <bsrenter(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
I have been looking into the Slingshot but have not found much information besides
through Kolb.
Anyone own or have flown one? how does it perform? Is the rear seat even usable?
I am interested in the Slingshot over the other Kolb models because of the increases
performance (advertised).
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Amazing Footage
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
http://www.dogwork.com/owfo8/
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357102#357102
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Amazing Footage
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Subject: Kolb-List: Amazing Footage
http://www.dogwork.com/owfo8/
Dennis Thate:
What's your point?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Amazing Footage
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
John Hauck wrote:
> Subject: Amazing Footage
>
>
>
> http://www.dogwork.com/owfo8/
>
>
>
>
> Dennis Thate:
>
> What's your point?
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
> The vortex dynamics !
> Titus, Alabama
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357108#357108
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Amazing Footage
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
The Vortex Dynamics ! Silly [Wink]
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357109#357109
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slingshot
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
bsrenter,
I own and fly a Slingshot with Jabiru 2200 engine. My normal cruise speed is 85
mph at 3.6-3.7 gph fuel burn. I get 1200 fpm initial climb rate except on real
warm days, then it is only 1,000 fpm. I fly it solo but there is room for a
midling size person in the back. I'm 5'-10 and 205 lbs and the back is not too
tight but probably not comfortable for a long flight.
It is a tail heavy airplane in the sense that the tail on mine has about 110 lbs
on the tailwheel in three point stance with full fuel but no pilot. Slingshots
do not handle on the ground as easily as the short leg Kolbs, partially due
to the longer main gear legs, but mostly due to the heavy tail. Getting some
real tailwheel time (not a Firestar of Mk III) is essential before soloing a
Slingshot.
It is a hoot to fly.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357110#357110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Amazing Footage
Date: Nov 06, 2011
The Vortex Dynamics ! Silly [Wink]
Dennis Thate:
Try to follow the Kolb List guidelines and keep your posts Kolb related.
Helps keep the Kolb List running smoothly.
Are you presently building or flying a Kolb?
I remember you posted many times reference building your hanger door, but
don't remember you sharing your Kolb building and flying experiences. If
you have any, I'd like to hear about them.
I can't speak for the other members of the Kolb List, but they would
probably like to hear them too.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Twinstar MkIII
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 06, 2011
Anyone know what the distance between the main gear wheels is on a Twinstar MkIII?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357114#357114
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make A List Contribution - It's Your Personal Squelch Button...
There is an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages.
Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through
the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, their email address is automatically added
to this year's Contributor List and they instantly cease to receive further Fund
Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
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allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Amazing Footage
Date: Nov 07, 2011
Interesting the way the wing root is fully stalled with the feathers blowing
the wrong way and the tips are still flying.
Nice pic
Pat.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twinstar MkIII
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2011
On my MK3C from the outside of the tires is 82".They just go between the wh
eel wells of a 8' wide car hauling trailer.I have the short spring steel ge
ar legs.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Ozarkflyer <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2011 11:14 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Twinstar MkIII
Anyone know what the distance between the main gear wheels is on a Twinstar
MkIII?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357114#357114
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Twinstar MkIII
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2011
Thanks. Exactly what I needed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357203#357203
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2011
I'm trying to differentiate between a Twinstar and a Mk II, or maybe they're one
and the same. My understanding is that the Twinstar was originally a Mk II
with a 5" spar and typically a Rotax 503. When the Twinstar Mk III came out it
was beefed up with a 6" spar and typically a Rotax 582 plus some other minor
differences. Is there any difference between this Mk III and the Mk IIIC that
we know today, or is the Mk IIIC designation there to differentiate from a Mk
IIIX?
I'm so confused. :?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357218#357218
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 07, 2011
easy to be confused. twinstar was a reference to side by side seating. Both the
mkII and MkIII were called twinstars (as far as I know)
and the MkIII was just an upgrade in structure heaviness. I have an original manual
that came with mine that called it a "caribbean"
-that's some kind of a Bean I think. heh heh.
-and now we have a new side by side Firestar, with a nose wheel no less, to confuse
you.
BB
MkIII (there never was a MkIIIC)
suzuki.
On 7, Nov 2011, at 7:07 PM, Ozarkflyer wrote:
>
> I'm trying to differentiate between a Twinstar and a Mk II, or maybe they're
one and the same. My understanding is that the Twinstar was originally a Mk II
with a 5" spar and typically a Rotax 503. When the Twinstar Mk III came out
it was beefed up with a 6" spar and typically a Rotax 582 plus some other minor
differences. Is there any difference between this Mk III and the Mk IIIC that
we know today, or is the Mk IIIC designation there to differentiate from a
Mk IIIX?
>
> I'm so confused. :?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357218#357218
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Date: Nov 07, 2011
I'm trying to differentiate between a Twinstar and a Mk II, or maybe they're
one and the same. My understanding is that the Twinstar was originally a Mk
II with a 5" spar and typically a Rotax 503. When the Twinstar Mk III came
out it was beefed up with a 6" spar and typically a Rotax 582 plus some
other minor differences. Is there any difference between this Mk III and
the Mk IIIC that we know today, or is the Mk IIIC designation there to
differentiate from a Mk IIIX?
***************************************
Twinstar: First Kolb two place, side by side, open cockpit with a nose cone
and small windshield. Powered with a 447. 7 rib wing and 5" spar and tail
boom.
Twinstar MKII: Enclosed Twinstar, 5" spar and tail boom, 7 rib wing,
powered with a 503.
Twinstar MKIII: 6" spar and tail boom, 10 rib wing, powered with a 582,
912UL and 912ULS.
The "c" was added to the MKIII after The New Kolb Aircraft Company purchased
Kolb Aircraft to differentiate between it and the new modified MKIIIx.
john h
mkIII (Built and flown long before the Extra was thought of, therefore no
"c" in my model number.)
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Amazing Footage
From: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2011
Sorta gives new meaning to "full flaps"
--------
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357223#357223
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
I had one of the original Twinstars back in '89; 5" spars and tail boom, si
de-by-side seating, dual rudders, single stick, Rotax 503, 5-gal tank, no n
osecone, canopy or flaps, before it was renamed to Mk. I can't remember how
many ribs.
Phil H.
--- On Mon, 11/7/11, John Hauck wrote:
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 8:02 PM
I'm trying to differentiate between a Twinstar and a Mk II, or maybe they'r
e
one and the same.- My understanding is that the Twinstar was originally a
Mk
II with a 5" spar and typically a Rotax 503.- When the Twinstar Mk III ca
me
out it was beefed up with a 6" spar and typically a Rotax 582 plus some
other minor differences.- Is there any difference between this Mk III and
the Mk IIIC that we know today, or is the Mk IIIC designation there to
differentiate from a Mk IIIX?
***************************************
Twinstar:- First Kolb two place, side by side, open cockpit with a nose c
one
and small windshield.- Powered with a 447.- 7 rib wing and 5" spar and
tail
boom.
Twinstar MKII:- Enclosed Twinstar, 5" spar and tail boom, 7 rib wing,
powered with a 503.--- ---
Twinstar MKIII:- 6" spar and tail boom, 10 rib wing, powered with a 582,
912UL and 912ULS.
The "c" was added to the MKIII after The New Kolb Aircraft Company purchase
d
Kolb Aircraft to differentiate between it and the new modified MKIIIx.
john h
mkIII (Built and flown long before the Extra was thought of, therefore no
"c" in my model number.)
Titus, Alabama
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2011
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Building a landing strip in Pa
A friend of mine, and I are looking for land, to put in our own
landing strip. There is NO hanger space where I fly from now and I am
getting too old to drag my FSII up onto my trailer each time I fly. (
not to mention we feel the land would be a good investment). Has
anyone done this, and what hoops must you jump through before buying
the land? This would NOT be open to the general public, and only he
and I would take off and land there. Thanks in advance for any
guidance you can offer. Lanny N598LF
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2011
> Has anyone done this, and what hoops must you jump through before
buying the land? Lanny N598LF
>
Lanny,
Yes. But call me. Too much to go into via email.
Mike Welch
573-480-9802
PS. Don't give out my phone number to anyone. Up until now, only you
and I know it.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2011
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Lanny/All
I already owned the land so I just took the stand that it was better to ask
forgiveness than to ask permission. I build a 1400 ft one way grass strip
in Michigan that I flew out of for 20 years with no problems. I did make
the rounds to neighbors every few years or so to talk about any issues.
This seemed to be the key and not too much traffic. Never had a minutes
problem with neighbors or any government. At one point I looked into making
it a class D airstrip which would have given me tax exempt status on the
runway but didn't have enough length for the required approaches/and length.
The runway was plenty for my kolb and very convenient as it was next to my
house and hanger. Not much better than being less than 20 minutes form your
living room to in the air including a good preflight.
By the way, the house, 19 acres, hanger and strip is 10 miles west of
Lansing MI and is for sale if anyone is interested. Contact me off the list
if you are interested.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lanny Fetterman wrote:
>
> A friend of mine, and I are looking for land, to put in our own landing
> strip. There is NO hanger space where I fly from now and I am getting too
> old to drag my FSII up onto my trailer each time I fly. ( not to mention we
> feel the land would be a good investment). Has anyone done this, and what
> hoops must you jump through before buying the land? This would NOT be open
> to the general public, and only he and I would take off and land there.
> Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer. Lanny N598LF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Building a landing strip in Pa
Date: Nov 08, 2011
Never had a minutes problem with neighbors or any government.
Rick Neilsen
Rick N/Folks:
Good idea to stay on the good side of your neighbors by visiting with them
to see if there are any issues.
I've been flying out of a cow pasture for 27 years. Never had a complaint
from my neighbors. To keep on their good side, I occasionally take aerial
photos of their houses and acreage. Putting them in a nice 8 X 10
inexpensive picture frame also adds a little bit to the personal side of
this gift.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2011
If any of you hard-of-hearing pilots use hearing aids you should try the T-Coil
setting, if so equipped. The T-Coil switches OFF the hearing aid microphone and
gets its signal from the emf (electromagnetic field) generated by the coils
in the headset. This way, the only major sound you get comes through the radio
and/or intercom. The T-coil was designed for use with telephones (hence the
name) but works as well or better in a noisy airplane cabin with headsets.
I went completely deaf over the years in both ears and now have bi-lateral cochlear
implants. The only way I can use the radio now is with the T-coil set which
makes a HUGE difference in speech intelligibility.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357246#357246
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
From: "Tinman" <uwil(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2011
I live in northeast Pa and am doing the same thing. Went to the Township building
and spoke with the local officials and they told me there are no zoning laws
in the township that would prohibit me from doing this. Every township is different
you should check with they first.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357247#357247
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 08, 2011
Thom Riddle wrote:
> If any of you hard-of-hearing pilots use hearing aids you should try the T-Coil
setting, if so equipped. The T-Coil switches OFF the hearing aid microphone
and gets its signal from the emf (electromagnetic field) generated by the coils
in the headset. This way, the only major sound you get comes through the radio
and/or intercom. The T-coil was designed for use with telephones (hence the
name) but works as well or better in a noisy airplane cabin with headsets.
>
> I went completely deaf over the years in both ears and now have bi-lateral cochlear
implants. The only way I can use the radio now is with the T-coil set which
makes a HUGE difference in speech intelligibility.
>
> For more information on T-coils see this:
> http://www.tecear.com/Turn-On-To-T-coil.htm
Excellent device, how do you install it into a headset? Or make it work in an airplane?
How is yours set up?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357248#357248
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
At 01:30 PM 11/8/2011, Lanny Fetterman wrote:
>
>A friend of mine, and I are looking for land, to put in our own landing
>strip. There is NO hanger space where I fly from now and I am getting too
>old to drag my FSII up onto my trailer each time I fly. ( not to mention
>we feel the land would be a good investment). Has anyone done this, and
>what hoops must you jump through before buying the land? This would NOT be
>open to the general public, and only he and I would take off and land
>there. Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer.
It depends on the state and local laws. For private use, it may be that
nothing is required. Here in Connecticut the state only gets involved if
more than 35 takeoffs and landings per year or 10 per day are done, then
you need a state airport license. I know that in NJ _all_ flying must be
from a state licensed airport. Local zoning may apply. We built a strip
here in CT and first the zoning people told us we couldn't fly because
zoning regulations didn't list it as a permitted use. We requested special
permission and they changed their mind and declared that the zoning
regulations didn't actually prohibit it, either... subject to not annoying
anybody, we could go ahead and fly. They didn't want to set a precedent by
giving us formal permission.
-Dana
--
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that
heralds new discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but rather,
'hmm.... that's funny...'
--Isaac Asimov
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2011
T-coils are built into all modern hearing aids, I believe, and cochlear implant
speech processors. I know that all the hearing aids I had over the 25 plus year
period I could use one, had T-coils. Each manufacturer of aids/implants has
their own way of switching from mic to T-coil, and back when you are done flying
or using the telephone. Mine just requires pressing two small buttons on the
processor for 3 seconds to switch to T-coil mode. Same for switching back to
microphone. Some have a way of mixing both mic and T-coil. Mine is set (via
programming) to keep 10% of the sound coming from the mic with 90% coming through
the T-coil. I would prefer it be 100% T-coil but that is not possible on mine.
When the T-coil is OFF, all sound comes from the microphone pickup.
There is no external device required, no wired connections or anything. The mere
close proximity of a telephone or headset is sufficient to pickup the telephone/radio/intercom
output. Just use the telephone or headset as you are using
now but with the hearing aid switched to T-coil.
If you don't have hearing aids I know of no way of rigging anything like this.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357250#357250
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2011
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
Mike, I just found the listing for the land today. I will give you a
call if we move forward. We are going to go look at it tomorrow.
Lanny At 02:10 PM 11/8/2011, you wrote:
>> Has anyone done this, and what hoops must you jump through before
>> buying the land? Lanny N598LF
>
>Lanny,
>
> Yes. But call me. Too much to go into via email.
>
>
>Mike Welch
>573-480-9802
>
>PS. Don't give out my phone number to anyone. Up until now, only
>you and I know it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss
Date: Nov 08, 2011
There is no external device required, no wired connections or anything. The
mere close proximity of a telephone or headset is sufficient to pickup the
telephone/radio/intercom output. Just use the telephone or headset as you
are using now but with the hearing aid switched to T-coil.
If you don't have hearing aids I know of no way of rigging anything like
this.
--------
Thom Riddle
Thanks for the hearing aid info. I am in the process of getting a new pair.
I tried them in 1978 and 1980, when I retired from the Army, but never gave
them a chance for me to really get adjusted to the new noise. Being able to
hear any better than I do now would make my flying much more enjoyable.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers,
Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics
Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided
for my your Contributions during this time of the year.
Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email
Lists and Forums completely ad-free.
Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
Date: Nov 09, 2011
Lanny,
A fews years ago, I helped a guy do what you suggested regarding buying some
land, and putting in
a runway. With a background in being a contractor, a real estate agent, and land
development, I have some
experience in these matters. ( I ended up buying the Caterpillar road grader a
couple of years after the landing strip
was put in, to go along with several other pieces of heavy equipment I had)
As suggested by a couple of list members so far....the absolute FIRST thing you
should do is call your local
Planning & Zoning Dept. They will be able to tell you the specific zone category
the land you are interested in, and whether
you can 'legally' build and use a landing strip.
One thing I wouldn't do is; buy the land, build the runway and THEN ask if it's
okay. Hellava lot of time/money/risk if it all
doesn't work out. Just like every other real estate investment, there is a proper
order for things!! To go about it backwards
may be an expensive lesson.
A couple of 'obvious' suggestions to consider regarding picking out that piece
of property. A) Slope, if any. B) Length of 'usable'
runway you can actually build. C) Direction of prevailing wind. D) Proximity to
power lines, neighboring homes, tall trees, etc.
E) Is the property so secluded that someone can break in and steal parts off your
plane? (This happened to my friend, someone broke
into his metal-siding hangar and stole his 503 motor from Quicksilver)
Just a couple of thoughts to consider.....
BTW. Just kidding about the ix-nay on the phone number. My anemic attempt at
humor, which evidently is on life-support.
Mike Welch
On Nov 8, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Lanny Fetterman wrote:
>
> A friend of mine, and I are looking for land, to put in our own landing strip.
There is NO hanger space where I fly from now and I am getting too old to drag
my FSII up onto my trailer each time I fly. ( not to mention we feel the land
would be a good investment). Has anyone done this, and what hoops must you
jump through before buying the land? This would NOT be open to the general public,
and only he and I would take off and land there. Thanks in advance for any
guidance you can offer. Lanny N598LF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 09, 2011
Including mine there are four grass strips within 2 miles. Not much fear of collisions
as I'm the only one
who flies with any regularity. We are fortunate to be in an agricultural district
which usually is aviation friendly.
None of us ever attempted to comply with any local regs or zoning. -but we have
all been established for over thirty years.
Despite that, it is obviously important to maintain friendly relationships with
neighbors. I make a practice of NEVER
flying over a house, nice guy or not. One comment someone offered that aerial
photos of homes make a big impact.
I put them on CD and give them to the owners.
BB
MkIII, suzuki
still nice here today
On 9, Nov 2011, at 10:52 AM, Michael Welch wrote:
>
> Lanny,
>
> A fews years ago, I helped a guy do what you suggested regarding buying some
land, and putting in
> a runway. With a background in being a contractor, a real estate agent, and
land development, I have some
> experience in these matters. ( I ended up buying the Caterpillar road grader
a couple of years after the landing strip
> was put in, to go along with several other pieces of heavy equipment I had)
>
> As suggested by a couple of list members so far....the absolute FIRST thing
you should do is call your local
> Planning & Zoning Dept. They will be able to tell you the specific zone category
the land you are interested in, and whether
> you can 'legally' build and use a landing strip.
>
> One thing I wouldn't do is; buy the land, build the runway and THEN ask if it's
okay. Hellava lot of time/money/risk if it all
> doesn't work out. Just like every other real estate investment, there is a proper
order for things!! To go about it backwards
> may be an expensive lesson.
>
> A couple of 'obvious' suggestions to consider regarding picking out that piece
of property. A) Slope, if any. B) Length of 'usable'
> runway you can actually build. C) Direction of prevailing wind. D) Proximity
to power lines, neighboring homes, tall trees, etc.
> E) Is the property so secluded that someone can break in and steal parts off
your plane? (This happened to my friend, someone broke
> into his metal-siding hangar and stole his 503 motor from Quicksilver)
>
> Just a couple of thoughts to consider.....
>
> BTW. Just kidding about the ix-nay on the phone number. My anemic attempt
at humor, which evidently is on life-support.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 12:30 PM, Lanny Fetterman wrote:
>
>>
>> A friend of mine, and I are looking for land, to put in our own landing strip.
There is NO hanger space where I fly from now and I am getting too old to drag
my FSII up onto my trailer each time I fly. ( not to mention we feel the land
would be a good investment). Has anyone done this, and what hoops must you
jump through before buying the land? This would NOT be open to the general public,
and only he and I would take off and land there. Thanks in advance for any
guidance you can offer. Lanny N598LF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Building a landing strip in Pa
Date: Nov 09, 2011
> Including mine there are four grass strips within 2 miles. Not much fear of
collisions as I'm the only one
> who flies with any regularity. We are fortunate to be in an agricultural district
which usually is aviation friendly.
> None of us ever attempted to comply with any local regs or zoning. -but we have
all been established for over thirty years.
>
> Despite that, it is obviously important to maintain friendly relationships with
neighbors. I make a practice of NEVER
> flying over a house, nice guy or not. One comment someone offered that aerial
photos of homes make a big impact.
> I put them on CD and give them to the owners.
> BB
> MkIII, suzuki
> still nice here today
Mornin' Mr. Bob,
Important to maintain friendly relations, I agree. John's idea of photos is
a nice touch. But you can never bet the farm on
that one anal butthead that just can't keep their nose out of everyone else's business.
I seem to recall a story about someone
complaining about "those dangerous ultralights" flying out of Sandpoint Airport,
N. Idaho. The airport manager kicked ALL
ultralights out of the airport.
IF a guy 'already' owns the land, then putting in a landing strip isn't that
much of a gamble, because you already own the land
and the most someone can say is "no, you can't do that". What I'm cautioning is,
'buying' the land first, and then expecting to do
whatever you want. Maybe you can....and maybe you can't. Too much risk, when
it was easier to ask P & Z first. Then, if that
butthead complains, you know you don't have anything to fear if the 'regs' say
it's ok.
My friend that put in his landing strip and hangar, put it out way past any houses.
That was also far enough out that when someone
broke into his hangar, they knew there'd be no one around to catch them. Be sure
to include some kind of security precautions
in your hangar (motion lights, alarms, fake or real cameras, signs threatening
they are being video'd, etc)
There definitely are parts of the country that are more 'lightplane" friendly
than others. There's also lots of places with
old farts with NOTHING better to do than to cause trouble. I lived next door to
one, three years ago!!!!!
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fun at Sunset
From: "Kip" <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2011
A couple more for your entertainment... :D
At the local RC field...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jviqf8mxhww
Stalked by a VariEze...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa-VPEQ0YFw
--------
2000 Firestar II
R503 DCDI
VLS 750
2010 Waiex
Jabiru 3300
2020 Pitts Special S-1C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357402#357402
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fun at Sunset
From: "Ralph B" <rstar447(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2011
That was very good Kip!
That Vari-eze tried to slow down as much as he could ...
Thanks,
Ralph B
not not archive
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL (engine and avionics stolen on 5/17/11. Hanger break-in)
N20386
done flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357416#357416
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2011
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: twin cam ?
hey Kolbers is this a twin cam ?sorry to be off subject
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fun at Sunset
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2011
Way to go Kip! Just challenge him to a slow flight contest.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kip <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 3:44 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fun at Sunset
A couple more for your entertainment... :D
At the local RC field...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jviqf8mxhww
Stalked by a VariEze...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa-VPEQ0YFw
--------
2000 Firestar II
R503 DCDI
VLS 750
2010 Waiex
Jabiru 3300
2020 Pitts Special S-1C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357402#357402
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fun at Sunset
From: "Kip" <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2011
Hehe. I had it wound up pretty good just so he would not pass by during the slow
flight...
zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:
> Way to go Kip! Just challenge him to a slow flight contest.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
2000 Firestar II
R503 DCDI
VLS 750
2010 Waiex
Jabiru 3300
2020 Pitts Special S-1C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357427#357427
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers,
There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums.
The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November
Fund Raiser.
Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade
of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution
too!
You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here:
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or, you can send a personal check to the following address:
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Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2011
From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: twin cam ?
Gorgeous shot of a single seat Maxair Drifter - just like the one I've been
flying for about 20 years.=0A=0AArty Trost=0ASandy, Oregon=0A=0A-=0Awww.
LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/=0A=0A=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothi
ng"=0AHelen Keller=0A=0A=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive
safely at death."=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: chris d
avis =0ATo: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:05 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List:
twin cam ?=0A=0A=0Ahey Kolbers is this a twin cam ?sorry to be off subject
=0A=0A-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from cr
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2011
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: twin cam ?
- Arty- Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Kolb?- Your opinio
n, for comparison purposes.- And thanks for all the great stories.
-------------------------
--------------------- Bill Sulliv
an
-------------------------
--------------------- Windsor Loc
ks, Ct.
-------------------------
--------------------- FS 447
--- On Fri, 11/11/11, TheWanderingWench wrote
:
From: TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: twin cam ?
Date: Friday, November 11, 2011, 9:44 AM
Gorgeous shot of a single seat Maxair Drifter - just like the one I've been
flying for about 20 years.
Arty TrostSandy, Oregon-www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:05 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: twin cam ?
=0Ahey Kolbers is this a twin cam ?sorry to be off subject
=0A=0A-=0AChris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly=0Ahttp://www.matro======
===============0A=0A
========================0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: condition inspections
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 11, 2011
I highly recommend this Mike Busch webinar. It is long, about 1.5 hours, but worth
your time.
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1268563560001
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357519#357519
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Concrete or Chiropractor !
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 11, 2011
A Crushed Rock Hangar Floor was not a good Idea. I spent all week putting in concrete.
Busted my buns, but was well worth it !
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357572#357572
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/let_there_be_concrete_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Concrete or Chiropractor !
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 11, 2011
It depends on how it's done. The worst enemy of equipment stored is
moisture. -rising up through the ground.
I never had that problem with my old shed up on the strip because it
is so well drained.
My new barn, on the other hand, is located just a few feet from the
foot of a large hill which exudes bounteous
quantities of H2O. In this case, in addition to several hundred feet
of subterranean plastic tile, I spread
heavy black plastic, covered with several inches of fine crushed
stone. The barrier has given me a dry
floor. Nonetheless, I shall be paving the whole works with 5 inches
of reinforced concrete next year.
BB
MkIII, suzuki
semi retired
On Nov 11, 2011, at 4:29 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:
A Crushed Rock Hangar Floor was not a good Idea. I spent all week
putting in concrete. Busted my buns, but was well worth it !
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist
invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357572#357572
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/let_there_be_concrete_194.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: condition inspections
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 12, 2011
Yes it was good, and it also does a great job of demonstrating a huge change in
the focus of the EAA, and why I am no longer a member.
The entire focus of the webinar was that the owner is not the builder, and does
not do his/her own maintainance. The webinar was more for the owner of a Cessna
or Piper than for a homebuilder, and this is the direction that the EAA is
currently progressing in.
Over the last few years, they have begun transitioning from being the Experimental
Aircraft Association to being the Recreational Aircraft Association, with
"Recreational" to include anything and everything that flies, on the assumption
that somebody is enjoying it. And the EAA would like to that person to become
a member and send money to Oshkosh, and come spend money at "Airventure."
And instead of encouraging their chapters to have fly-in's with spot landing contests,
and flower bomb contests, they want you to instead spend an exhausting
day taking kids for rides. (Many of whom could apparently care less, since they
don't even say "Thank you")
Sorry to be such an old curmudgeon on such a pretty day, but that's how I see it.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357617#357617
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Concrete or Chiropractor !
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 12, 2011
BB
You are absolutely correct about the moisture issue. I did put a plastic layer
barrier under my pour before hand.
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357622#357622
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: condition inspections
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 12, 2011
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Richard,
>
> The reason I posted the link is that there are lots and lots of Kolbers who did
not build the Kolb they are flying (me included) and are not A&P mechanics.
These folks must get an A&P to do their inspection logbook entry and might benefit
from at least part of the presentation.
>
>
And a perfectly good reason it is. Please forgive me if I sounded critical, I did
not mean to be. I was just venting.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357645#357645
________________________________________________________________________________
From: K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com>
Subject: Utah Desert
Date: Nov 12, 2011
After
watching the posted videos from the Kolbers in the east=2C I feel somewhat
sheepish sharing this video. I need to find a better place for the camera
mount. Not only that=2C the haze in the air detracted from the majestic
mountains. Critiques are welcome. I am learning what looks good in a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzlqpWF2hEs&feature
Kurt
South of Salt Lake City
Kolb FSII
Rotax 503
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Utah Desert
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 12, 2011
I liked it. Is that a go kart track or a sports car course behind your field?
What sort of camera mount are you using, it doesn't have much vibration. And what
kind of camera?
Also, what computer program are you using to edit and add music to your video?
My camera films in Quicktime, but if you add music in Quicktime Pro, when you
upload it to Youtube, it discards the music track. So I add the music in Windows
Live Movie Maker, but that is not a user friendly program, and it has a lot
of limitations.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357650#357650
________________________________________________________________________________
From: K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Utah Desert
Date: Nov 12, 2011
The track you can see to the west of the field is a police training course.
The camera I use is a Go-Pro with 1080P. I use a bicycle handlebar mount on
the cage. I have noticed the harmonics of the engine does transfer to the
video. As the RPM of the engine changes=2C the picture tends to become dist
orted similar to a heat wave appearance. I am going to use the chest strap
next time and see how it looks. I can=92t use the helmet strap. I am 6-2 an
d I have just enough head room for the top piece of my headset. I will be
moving the camera around in the future.
The camera has a port for a microphone jack. I also want to try and hook it
to my radio box to get the radio traffic.
I have enjoyed watching the video of the other Kolbers. Larry Cotrell in Or
egon has provided some great desert video.
The editing program is the Microsoft software that came with my computer. I
t is working okay for now.
Thanks for the response.
Kurt
Kolb FSII
Rotax 503
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Utah Desert
> From: richard(at)bcchapel.org
> Date: Sat=2C 12 Nov 2011 15:47:13 -0800
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I liked it. Is that a go kart track or a sports car course behind your fi
eld?
>
> What sort of camera mount are you using=2C it doesn't have much vibration
. And what kind of camera?
> Also=2C what computer program are you using to edit and add music to your
video? My camera films in Quicktime=2C but if you add music in Quicktime P
ro=2C when you upload it to Youtube=2C it discards the music track. So I ad
d the music in Windows Live Movie Maker=2C but that is not a user friendly
program=2C and it has a lot of limitations.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
> Kingsport=2C TN 3TN0
> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for=2C the evidence of things
not seen.
> Hebrews 11:1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357650#357650
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in
December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Utah Desert
From: "Kip" <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2011
You have a nice playground, there... [Shocked]
--------
2000 Firestar II
R503 DCDI
VLS 750
2010 Waiex
Jabiru 3300
2020 Pitts Special S-1C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357746#357746
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: in-flight video
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2011
This could be the most spectacular in-flight video you'll ever see. NOT taken from
a Kolb, therefore not Kolb precisely Kolb related
http://vimeo.com/32001208
Be sure to go to full screen, the bigger the better.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357759#357759
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
From: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 13, 2011
Just got back from Nauga 2011 today and thought I would put together a quick video
on youtube. I spent more time talking than taking video so I did not have
a bunch to splice together. I had a good time and met some great people there.
(and ate way too much). Hopefully some others in attendance have some videos
of their own that they can post.
Travis Bennett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8owLkywDKM&feature=feedu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357768#357768
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 13, 2011
Just got back from Nauga 2011
Travis Bennett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8owLkywDKM&feature=feedu
Hi Travis/Folks:
Thanks for posting.
We had a ball.
Thanks to John Bickham and Sandie, and the rest of the Starhill Gang that
helped John B host a terrific event.
Emphasis this year was remembering our good friend and fellow Kolb pilot,
John Williamson, RIP Brother.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
From: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 13, 2011
Thanks Travis,
Nice video!! Kind words.. Glad you and others passed a good time!
You and James are now on the short list of pilots with Nauga Field (LS35) in the
logbook. Way to go!
Best news, everyone arrived, enjoyed, and then made it home safely! All home and
accounted for. Don't get no better than that.
"IronMan Kolb Pilot" award goes to Jimmy Young and his HKS Firestar. He fought
some stiff headwinds to get home. I think he said he logged 6 hrs and 34 mins
to get home. At one point, 24 mph groundspeed. True Kolb grit!
Sandy resting. She done good!
Looking forward to the next time we can get together already. Come visit anytime.
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that
I have the greatest respect for.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357776#357776
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
The two best Fly-Ins I've ever been to were both at Nauga Field. The slogan "many
bigger, non better" is a perfect description, thanks to the effort of Sandie
& John Bickham and the rest of the Starhill gang. It was good to see friends
again and meet new ones like Travis Bennett, the youngster of the group at 37,
and Larry Cottrell, who I've spoken with many times but never met in person.
John B - regarding my trip home, I don't qualify for any "iron man" status in the
world of Kolb flying but I'll accept a "bladder man" award. I believe my body
weight gain while at Nauga slowed me down as much as that headwind.
I did a little scud-running to get home quicker. The higher I flew the stronger
the headwinds, & down low it was a bumpy ride home. I picked speed over comfort.
In my boredom I made a quick, poor-quality video cruising the Intercoastal
between Port Arther and Galveston.
Thanks for a great weekend -
http://youtu.be/0AIjHmsbaUc
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357796#357796
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
From: Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Based on the video, I'd say you were definitely busy keeping things
straight and level. Good video!
-- Robert
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 4:42 AM, Jimmy Young wrote:
>
> The two best Fly-Ins I've ever been to were both at Nauga Field. The
> slogan "many bigger, non better" is a perfect description, thanks to the
> effort of Sandie & John Bickham and the rest of the Starhill gang. It was
> good to see friends again and meet new ones like Travis Bennett, the
> youngster of the group at 37, and Larry Cottrell, who I've spoken with many
> times but never met in person.
>
> John B - regarding my trip home, I don't qualify for any "iron man" status
> in the world of Kolb flying but I'll accept a "bladder man" award. I
> believe my body weight gain while at Nauga slowed me down as much as that
> headwind.
>
> I did a little scud-running to get home quicker. The higher I flew the
> stronger the headwinds, & down low it was a bumpy ride home. I picked
> speed over comfort. In my boredom I made a quick, poor-quality video
> cruising the Intercoastal between Port Arther and Galveston.
>
> Thanks for a great weekend -
>
> http://youtu.be/0AIjHmsbaUc
>
> --------
> Jimmy Young
> Missouri City, TX
> Kolb FS II/HKS 700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357796#357796
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
I did a little scud-running to get home quicker. The higher I flew the
stronger the headwinds, & down low it was a bumpy ride home. I picked speed
over comfort.
Jimmy Young
Jimmy Y/Gang:
>From your video I can tell how turbulent it was by watching the airspeed
indicator.
Flight conditions for James Tripp (MKIII) and me (MKIII) were just the
opposite of Jimmy's.
We all flew from Nauga Field west across the Mississippi to False River
Airport to refuel. James and I departed to the NE. At 1,000 feet at 80 mph
our ground speed was 105 mph, but turbulent. At 2,000 it was 108. At 3,000
about 110. At 4,000 feet we settled down to 114, give or take a few. We
flew for 3.2 hours nonstop, covered 337 sm. Above 3,000 feet it was smooth
as silk.
We also saved 5 gal of 100LL over our flight west to Nauga. We got 17 mpg
west and 22.5 east.
As I approached Gantt IAP I started my decent out of 4,000. When I hit
3,000 it was like riding a wild horse. When conditions are like this I know
I am going to have an exciting time getting back into Gantt IAP which is
lined by very tall trees (turbulence generators) on three sides. However,
we made it one more time and 750 feet of grass was more than enough to
return to earth.
Here is a couple photos of us and our airplanes.
john h
mkIII-3,114.2 hours
912ULS- 545.7 hours
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Gang,
After I watched Jimmy Young's video, the following one presented itself
on the site. Bunch of Ultrastars having fun! Anyone know the age or
location of the video, or seen it before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVT1VkBDWE
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
On 11/14/2011 5:42 AM, Jimmy Young wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young"
>
> The two best Fly-Ins I've ever been to were both at Nauga Field. The slogan
"many bigger, non better" is a perfect description, thanks to the effort of Sandie&
John Bickham and the rest of the Starhill gang. It was good to see friends
again and meet new ones like Travis Bennett, the youngster of the group at
37, and Larry Cottrell, who I've spoken with many times but never met in person.
>
> John B - regarding my trip home, I don't qualify for any "iron man" status in
the world of Kolb flying but I'll accept a "bladder man" award. I believe my
body weight gain while at Nauga slowed me down as much as that headwind.
>
> I did a little scud-running to get home quicker. The higher I flew the stronger
the headwinds,& down low it was a bumpy ride home. I picked speed over comfort.
In my boredom I made a quick, poor-quality video cruising the Intercoastal
between Port Arther and Galveston.
>
> Thanks for a great weekend -
>
> http://youtu.be/0AIjHmsbaUc
>
> --------
> Jimmy Young
> Missouri City, TX
> Kolb FS II/HKS 700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357796#357796
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Anyone know the age or location of the video, or seen it before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVT1VkBDWE
Dave Kulp
Dave K/Gang:
That video was made at Sun and Fun, Lakeland, FL, March 1984.
The white Ultrastar is the Kolb Factory US flown by a very young Dennis
Souder. He could make that little airplane do just about anything but
hover. It was amazing to watch him fly.
That was Sun and Fun was number one for me, one of 27 consecutive S&F's I
have attended. I sent Homer Kolb a check for $3,495.00, the month prior.
When I left to drive to Lakeland I had already received the Builder's Manual
and the Plans to build my Ultrastar. When I got back from Lakeland I had a
call to come up to the country store and pick up some stuff the UPS man had
dropped off. It was my Cuyuna ULII02 and some parts for my new airplane.
Three months later I flew my US for the first time. I had never flown
anything but Army helicopters. Was not qualified to fly a fixed wing
aircraft. Took two landings to get the hang of flying an fixed wing US.
The first landing I wiped out the main gear and broke the prop. My landing
was ok. The damage occurred when I landed at the wrong end of my 600 foot
unimproved airstrip in the same cow pasture I have been flying out of for
the past 27 years. Had no brakes. Overran the knoll at the north end of
the strip, down the hill and through a cow path that was just deep enough to
take my main gear off. Those were the good old days.
Since those days I have logged nearly 7,000 landings and still can't do it
very well.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Ultralight History
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Folks:
Never thought I would see this Lazair on floats fly again, but found it
after watching the Ultrastars fly at S&F 1984.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OldChuckie#p/a/u/2/CaVLBrv4eQQ
At the same S&F 1984, there was an ultralight ditch filled with water that
served at the UL Seaplane Base in the UL area. One of the prettiest of the
float equipped ULs was an Ultrastar, red and white sunburst, on fiberglass
floats.
There was also this 4 engine Lazair on floats. As you will see, the pilot
flew barefooted with his britches legs rolled up. He must have had a little
of Dick Rahill's (Kolb Firestar Factory Pilot) blood in him because he flew
almost continually. Take off, very short circuit and plop back down in the
ditch, just to take off again.
Those were extremely good days.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Somebody posted that awhile ago... I believe it's Homer Kolb, and perhaps
Dennis Souder.
-Dana
At 11:57 AM 11/14/2011, David Kulp wrote:
>
>Gang,
>
>After I watched Jimmy Young's video, the following one presented itself on
>the site. Bunch of Ultrastars having fun! Anyone know the age or
>location of the video, or seen it before?
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVT1VkBDWE
--
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government. - Thomas Jefferson
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Dennis Souder!!!!!! Flying sideways about 5' AGL!!! I'd heard a lot
about his expertise, including folding a wing testing G forces and
throwing out a handheld 'chute, but never saw him fly. Now I have a
much better picture. Thanks, John.
BTW, saw you land a number of times at Homer's fly-in and you sure
looked good to me. One or two bent gear legs in 7K landings is a pretty
noteworthy record, especially considering some of the places you've
landed in the NW.
Thanks again for the info, John,
Dave Kulp
FireFly 11DMK
Bethlehem, PA
On 11/14/2011 12:20 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck"
>
> Anyone know the age or location of the video, or seen it before?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVT1VkBDWE
>
> Dave Kulp
>
>
> Dave K/Gang:
>
> That video was made at Sun and Fun, Lakeland, FL, March 1984.
>
> The white Ultrastar is the Kolb Factory US flown by a very young Dennis
> Souder. He could make that little airplane do just about anything but
> hover. It was amazing to watch him fly.
>
> That was Sun and Fun was number one for me, one of 27 consecutive S&F's I
> have attended. I sent Homer Kolb a check for $3,495.00, the month prior.
> When I left to drive to Lakeland I had already received the Builder's Manual
> and the Plans to build my Ultrastar. When I got back from Lakeland I had a
> call to come up to the country store and pick up some stuff the UPS man had
> dropped off. It was my Cuyuna ULII02 and some parts for my new airplane.
> Three months later I flew my US for the first time. I had never flown
> anything but Army helicopters. Was not qualified to fly a fixed wing
> aircraft. Took two landings to get the hang of flying an fixed wing US.
> The first landing I wiped out the main gear and broke the prop. My landing
> was ok. The damage occurred when I landed at the wrong end of my 600 foot
> unimproved airstrip in the same cow pasture I have been flying out of for
> the past 27 years. Had no brakes. Overran the knoll at the north end of
> the strip, down the hill and through a cow path that was just deep enough to
> take my main gear off. Those were the good old days.
>
> Since those days I have logged nearly 7,000 landings and still can't do it
> very well.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Somebody posted that awhile ago... I believe it's Homer Kolb, and perhaps
Dennis Souder.
-Dana
Wasn't Homer flying.
Only time I can remember Homer flying at Lakeland was once in the 1985
Factory Firestar that went on to take the Gold Lindy Trophy for 1985 Oshkosh
Grand Champion Ultralight. Homer flew my newly rebuilt Firestar at S&F
1989. Got photos of both around here somewhere.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
BTW, saw you land a number of times at Homer's fly-in and you sure looked
good to me. One or two bent gear legs in 7K landings is a pretty noteworthy
record, especially considering some of the places you've landed in the NW.
Thanks again for the info, John,
Dave Kulp
Dave K/Gang:
I wish that were true, just a couple bent gear legs.
I've wiped the main gear off my mkIII twice, and I could not tell you how
many times I bent and broke landing gear on the Ultrastar and Firestar. The
one thing I have never done is bend somebody else's Kolb, but I sure have
bent mine.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: 1planeguy <1planeguy(at)kilocharlie.us>
Subject: John Cooley out there?
Tried to email you but it kicked back...shoot me a note...
--
*/Jeremy Casey/*
*/Jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us /*
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Re: John Cooley out there?
Hi Jeremy,
Here's a note. Got yours OK.
Dave Kulp
On 11/14/2011 3:15 PM, 1planeguy wrote:
> Tried to email you but it kicked back...shoot me a note...
> --
>
> */Jeremy Casey/*
>
> */Jeremy(at)kilocharlie.us /*
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
I have not worked on my MKx in quite a while but have been re-motivated with the
thought of building it with the new nose wheel option. What do you guys think
about this option?
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357860#357860
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
To the Kolb list:
-
I am modifying my newly bought TSC trailer and I need the wheelbase and tai
l wheel dimensions for the Kolb Firefly. My Firefly kit is arriving soon (m
y 2nd Kolb), and I'm laying out the trailer in the meantime.
Can anyone out there with a Firefly give me the spread between the centerli
ne of the tires and the length to the tail wheel? Also the length to where
you are currently supporting the tail boom for transport.
Much obliged!
Phil H.
http://phactor.com/i/f2.jpg
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Hi Rick,
I think it could be a good idea. I'll work with ya on the design. I've already
scribbled a drawing just for grins.
BTW, what do you mean "with the new nose wheel option"? Are you referring to the
Firestar's new front wheel or
has Kolb Aircraft come up with a new bolt-on option for the MkIIIX? (or will
the Firestar front wheel work with either one?)
Mike Welch
On Nov 14, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Rick Lewis wrote:
>
> I have not worked on my MKx in quite a while but have been re-motivated with
the thought of building it with the new nose wheel option. What do you guys think
about this option?
>
> --------
> Rick Lewis
>
> (VW Watercooled Engine)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357860#357860
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultralight History
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Ah, yes! The Good Old Days! Thank you!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357873#357873
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
John,
Yup very young, and apparently feeling very invincible.
The guy sits down and takes off ,,,,, no seat belt? ? ? ,,,,,, in an
Ultrastar ????
I'll bet the man now wishes that little bit of "bravery" was not quite
clearly so documented.
Gene,
On Nov 14, 2011, at 12:20 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> The white Ultrastar is the Kolb Factory US flown by a very young
Dennis
> Souder. He could make that little airplane do just about anything but
> hover. It was amazing to watch him fly.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
John,
Just a quick question.Your gear legs,alum or steel?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 14, 2011 9:07 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
I did a little scud-running to get home quicker. The higher I flew the
stronger the headwinds, & down low it was a bumpy ride home. I picked spee
d
over comfort.
Jimmy Young
Jimmy Y/Gang:
>From your video I can tell how turbulent it was by watching the airspeed
indicator.
Flight conditions for James Tripp (MKIII) and me (MKIII) were just the
opposite of Jimmy's.
We all flew from Nauga Field west across the Mississippi to False River
Airport to refuel. James and I departed to the NE. At 1,000 feet at 80 mp
h
our ground speed was 105 mph, but turbulent. At 2,000 it was 108. At 3,00
0
about 110. At 4,000 feet we settled down to 114, give or take a few. We
flew for 3.2 hours nonstop, covered 337 sm. Above 3,000 feet it was smooth
as silk.
We also saved 5 gal of 100LL over our flight west to Nauga. We got 17 mpg
west and 22.5 east.
As I approached Gantt IAP I started my decent out of 4,000. When I hit
3,000 it was like riding a wild horse. When conditions are like this I kno
w
I am going to have an exciting time getting back into Gantt IAP which is
lined by very tall trees (turbulence generators) on three sides. However,
we made it one more time and 750 feet of grass was more than enough to
return to earth.
Here is a couple photos of us and our airplanes.
john h
mkIII-3,114.2 hours
912ULS- 545.7 hours
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
At 05:14 PM 11/14/2011, Rick Lewis wrote:
>
>I have not worked on my MKx in quite a while but have been re-motivated
>with the thought of building it with the new nose wheel option. What do
>you guys think about this option?
Why put a training wheel on a perfectly good taildragger?
-Dana
--
Alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, not a
government agency.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Hey Phil,
Nice wing walker. ; )
Gene,
On Nov 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Phil wrote:
> Much obliged!
> Phil H.
> http://phactor.com/i/f2.jpg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
John,
Just a quick question.Your gear legs,alum or steel?
G.Aman
My gear legs on the MKIII, and the original Firestar, are/were 4130. Both
use .120" X 1 1/8" tubing. My tail wheel strut is .125 X 3/4" 4130.
Everything heat treated to RC48. They make good spring, but are not hard
enough to break. I have bent the gear legs 90 degrees before.
I use a 24" long leg on the MKIII with 6" inserted into the socket.
James Tripp is using my old Firestar gear legs, which were 35.5" long, cut
to 24" on his MKIII with Jim Hauck main gear.
The main gear on my Ultrastar was rigid and 4130 tubing.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
The guy sits down and takes off ,,,,, no seat belt? ? ? ,,,,,, in an
Ultrastar ????
Gene,
Gene/Gang:
Look at the clip again. Looks, to me, like he cranks, gets in, and taxies
to take off. As he flies back by the camera, I think I can see the seat
belt attached.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
Thanks. That's my 1988 Twinstar. No canopy, nosecone, enclosure, just bugs-
in-the-teeth flying. I miss it very much. I'm at a point in my life now tha
t I have my own little home in Tennessee, I'm totally gearing up my garage
into a shop (on the dirt-cheap), and it's time to fly again. I live RIGHT n
ext to Dallas Bay Skypark - 1A0 - and I have my Firefly on order; my 2nd Ko
lb - I get it in a couple of weeks.
But right now I sure could use some Firefly dimensions! The plans have none
for the cage or landing gear.
I keep my ICON IC-A5 on in the garage and listen to the guys out at the fie
ld. The Kolb is, hands-down, the winner in my book.
I'm keeping my new Firefly 103 legal. I get the kit(s) sometime around Than
ksgiving weekend. At some point later I might fab my own nosecose and fairi
ng.
Phil
http://phactor.com/222.jpg
http://phactor.com/i/f1.jpg
http://phactor.com/i/f3.jpg
-
--- On Mon, 11/14/11, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
Date: Monday, November 14, 2011, 7:21 PM
Hey Phil,
Nice wing walker. - ; )
Gene,
On Nov 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Phil wrote:
Much obliged!
Phil H.
http://phactor.com/i/f2.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Thanks Mike for the reply. Kolb has NOT afford an option for the MKX, as far as
I know, but they have impressed me with what they have done so far on this.
I talked to Brian today about this modification on the MKX and I will be going
to see them in a fews days to look at a prototype. If others are interested
in this I will submit pictures that I take. I Will be looking for other positive
replies on this.
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357887#357887
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
And why not?? Nobody is asking ya to put one on yours.
--------
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357889#357889
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Thanks ss568 for the remark
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357890#357890
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Rick,
I would be interested in converting my mk 3 to a tri . If you get some pictures
they would be appreciated.
Thanks,
David d.
--------
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357892#357892
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultralight History
From: "Kip" <klaurie(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Cool.... [Twisted Evil]
--------
2000 Firestar II
R503 DCDI
VLS 750
2010 Waiex
Jabiru 3300
2020 Pitts Special S-1C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357893#357893
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Yes John,
Upon a closer look, I believe you are correct.
I just remembered how close those seat belts could get to the prop if
you ever forgot to secure them.
The ultrastar was one of the sweetest flying planes Homer ever sold.
Prop ground clearance was its main draw back.
Gene
On Nov 14, 2011, at 7:52 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> Gene/Gang:
>
> Look at the clip again. Looks, to me, like he cranks, gets in, and
taxies to take off. As he flies back by the camera, I think I can see
the seat belt attached.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Gene,
I do remember landing at SNF one time with the seat belt not fastened, but I
think that was in a FS.
But even if I did that in an UltraStar and that was the most stupid thing I
ever did . I'd feel much better.
Fact is, I did far more stupid things than that - there just wasn't a camera
pointing at me.
Dennis
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Zimmerman
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
John,
Yup very young, and apparently feeling very invincible.
The guy sits down and takes off ,,,,, no seat belt? ? ? ,,,,,, in an
Ultrastar ????
I'll bet the man now wishes that little bit of "bravery" was not quite
clearly so documented.
Gene,
On Nov 14, 2011, at 12:20 PM, John Hauck wrote:
The white Ultrastar is the Kolb Factory US flown by a very young Dennis
Souder. He could make that little airplane do just about anything but
hover. It was amazing to watch him fly.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Nov 14, 2011
Just curious....Why don't you like the tail dragger version??? They are so easy
to handle...not sure why you would want to go through the extra work....Please
post the pictures ..I would never do it ,but would like to see how they set
it up...
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru A-2200 238.hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357901#357901
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's Your Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers,
You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nauga 2011 (video link inside)
Date: Nov 15, 2011
On Nov 14, 2011, at 10:26 PM, Dennis Souder wrote:
> Gene,
>
> I do remember landing at SNF one time with the seat belt not fastened,
but I think that was in a FS.
> But even if I did that in an UltraStar and that was the most stupid
thing I ever did =85 I=92d feel much better.
> Fact is, I did far more stupid things than that ' there just wasn=92t
a camera pointing at me.
>
> Dennis
Dennis,
Hey man trust me, I know what you mean about "stupid" and the pointing
camera also.
Ain't God good!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Link to Nauga 2011 Pics
From: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
For those that are interested, here is a link to pics I took through the weekend:
http://kolbadventures.shutterfly.com/506
Just press the button on the camera and hope for the best!
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that
I have the greatest respect for.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357991#357991
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Folks:
Right off hand I can think of a couple things that a nose gear might affect
on a MKIIIx or a MKIIIc.
-The nose wheel and mount will add a lot more weight and drag than a tail
wheel.
-We already have an inherent problem with a high mounted pusher
configuration. The high thrust line wants to push the nose of the aircraft
down. Takes a lot of nose up trim to keep it happy. If we add a nose
wheel, it will add to the nose down trim problem. Low drag up front will
combine with a high thrust line to try and push the nose down even more.
The standard main gear on Kolb aircraft places most of the weight on the
main gear with a light tail wheel. It is very easy to handle on the ground.
As easy, or more so, than tricycle gear. That is why Homer designed it that
way.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
John
Valid points...but----
Looks as if we already have a similar configuration with the Tri
Firestar....The interview that I saw with Brian, indicated good
flying qualities..
Maybe Travis will give us some feedback on the ground handling
qualities and your concerns?
Herb
At 07:37 AM 11/15/2011, you wrote:
>
>
> Folks:
>
>Right off hand I can think of a couple things that a nose gear might affect
>on a MKIIIx or a MKIIIc.
>
>-The nose wheel and mount will add a lot more weight and drag than a tail
>wheel.
>
>-We already have an inherent problem with a high mounted pusher
>configuration. The high thrust line wants to push the nose of the aircraft
>down. Takes a lot of nose up trim to keep it happy. If we add a nose
>wheel, it will add to the nose down trim problem. Low drag up front will
>combine with a high thrust line to try and push the nose down even more.
>
>The standard main gear on Kolb aircraft places most of the weight on the
>main gear with a light tail wheel. It is very easy to handle on the ground.
>As easy, or more so, than tricycle gear. That is why Homer designed it that
>way.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Looks as if we already have a similar configuration with the Tri
Firestar....The interview that I saw with Brian, indicated good flying
qualities..
Herb
Herb/Kolbers:
I've never seen the new tri-gear Firestar, nor have I talked with the
designer and test pilot. Know virtually nothing about it.
I have flown a MKIIIx and am familiar with it. I think that is what we are
talking about here, adding a nose gear to the MKIIIx.
I am a tail wheel guy and partial to that configuration. This doesn't
change the inherent problems mounting a nose gear on a MKIIIx will generate.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
We have machines here that started out as taildraggers, I had one. The
change to the nose wheel option has happened without any drama and although
I have no figures I would guess that the tricycle is now in the majority.
I think you are wrong in describing the Xtra as `light on the tail`, mine
certainly is not, although you are right in saying that it would require a
major trim change to accommodate a front wheel. That would have to be a
redistribution of weight rather that just trimming it out.
I would certainly be interested in a trike gear but under our rules I
suspect that I would have to jump through quite a few hoops to get it
accepted on the register.
I don`t think that I will bother.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
> I don`t think that I will bother.
>
> Pat
Pat, others,
I suspect the nosewheel/tailwheel argument is a lot like VGs, Mystery Oil, Seafoam,
and a host of other unending
discussions.
Whether pro-tailwheel guys like it or not, there are probably lots of other guys
who 'might' prefer a nosewheel. That doesn't make
either side wrong, it just may be what we are used to, or have a preference for.
Much like VGs, or NO VGs.
That being said, without a doubt, to install a nosewheel on an Xtra would certainly
require a heckava lot more than simply
bolting on a ready-made front wheel. (IMO)
The main gear's present location, which is designed for a taildragger weight
distribution, would be a very poor place to adapt
for a nosewheel. It should be placed several inches rearward (after proper design
calculations).
Plus, the added stresses a nosewheel would place on the very front portion of
the fuselage would likely require some beefing up.
In other words....done properly, a nosewheel Xtra would need a signifcant re-design,
strengthening the front end and relocating the
main gear mounts, maybe about 30" rearward or more. There may also be other design
considerations...I would imagine.
If Kolb Aircraft were to seriously tackle this concept;
a) I would think the fuselage would require the appropriate modifications and
new shape.
b) there darn sure would be a market for a nosewheel Xtra
c) it should be renamed, to clarify the distinction between nosewheel and tailwheel
models.
The idea that a high thrustline doesn't make for a good nosewheel airplane seems
a little weak, to me. If I had to guess, I'd bet there are FAR more
nosewheel/high engine lightplanes than there are tailwheel/high engine lightplanes.
Titan Tornado, Quicksilvers, Carlsons, Rans S12, to name just a few.
Whether there are more of one or the other, doesn't mean the opposite style won't
work, especially when designed correctly.
Just my humble little opinion.
Mike Welch
MkIII
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
I started flying nose dragging airplanes and may still have more hours in
them than tail daggers. With all the stories around I was also concerned
about the Kolb before I flew it. Bottom line it isn't as much the nose
verses tail as it is the overall aircraft design.
Of the planes that I have flown there is one nose wheel airplane that is
much more difficult to fly (drive on the ground) than my Kolb and that is a
Piper Saratoga. The higher landing/take off speeds with the weight of the
plane makes this nose wheel airplane a challenge. Another plane I now rent
in the winter, a Sport Cruiser has differential braking with no link to the
castering nose wheel. This configuration took more adjustment than a Kolb.
I will say that I once landed down wind on a paved runway and my Kolb was a
challenge. The Kolb flying off grass is the easiest to handle of any
airplane I have ever flown.
So with that said get a flight in a Kolb before you add the weight, drag,
and complexity to a perfectly fine airplane.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:37 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Folks:
>
> Right off hand I can think of a couple things that a nose gear might affect
> on a MKIIIx or a MKIIIc.
>
> -The nose wheel and mount will add a lot more weight and drag than a tail
> wheel.
>
> -We already have an inherent problem with a high mounted pusher
> configuration. The high thrust line wants to push the nose of the aircraft
> down. Takes a lot of nose up trim to keep it happy. If we add a nose
> wheel, it will add to the nose down trim problem. Low drag up front will
> combine with a high thrust line to try and push the nose down even more.
>
> The standard main gear on Kolb aircraft places most of the weight on the
> main gear with a light tail wheel. It is very easy to handle on the
> ground.
> As easy, or more so, than tricycle gear. That is why Homer designed it
> that
> way.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
the entire time i was building my mkiii, my brother kept telling me that
it needed a nose wheel... it needs a nose wheel,,, it needs a nose whee...
so when it was done i took him for a ride, when i showed him some slow s
turns down the runway with the tail in the air,,, and told him that this
was the hardest part of flying a tail dragger, he said,,," guess it dont
need a nose wheel, this dosent seem as bad as i had been led to believe."
many pilots when starting with a tail dragger, get a bit behind what is
going on and end up "stomping on snakes" when making adjustments to the
rudder. if , or should i say when, you learn that you should use a
constant steady pressure, and only enough to get the desired results, the
tail dragger tames down and is no longer a scary monster.
ask me how i know about the "stomping on snakes" my first few flights in a
super cub,,, well i am glad the runway was 75 ft wide. and now landing on
a 2 track road is doable.
my 2 cents
boyd young
mkiii utah
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
> the tail dragger tames down and is no longer a scary monster.
>
> boyd young
> mkiii utah
Boyd,
I suspect you are hitting the nail on the head the best. For those of us with
little, or NO
tailwheel time, I think all we want is a stable, unscary plane. Whether it is
nosedragger, or taildragger,
we mostly prefer non-wingdragger.
Like Rick N. suggested, maybe we should just get a flight in a MkIII and relax.
By all accounts,
evidently Kolbs are some of the best taildraggers around.
Mike W
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
The idea that a high thrustline doesn't make for a good nosewheel airplane
seems a little weak, to me. If I had to guess, I'd bet there are FAR more
nosewheel/high engine lightplanes than there are tailwheel/high engine
lightplanes. Titan Tornado, Quicksilvers, Carlsons, Rans S12, to name just
a few.
Whether there are more of one or the other, doesn't mean the opposite
style won't work, especially when designed correctly.
Just my humble little opinion.
Mike Welch
MkIII
Mike W/Folks:
No argument here. I simply tried to contribute the effects of adding a nose
wheel to a MKIIIx, probably with the big nose (I am assuming the gentleman
has an older model MKIIIx).
I didn't say, "a high thrust line doesn't make for a good nose wheel
airplane."
There is no comparison between a MKIIIx and "Titan Tornado, Quicksilvers,
Carlsons, Rans S12, to name a few," when comparing nose and tail wheel
aircraft.
If and when you ever fly a MKIIIx, you will probably be immediately aware of
the high thrust line and how it affects flight characteristics and
performance, especially in cruise. Add a nose wheel to this characteristic
and it will only add to the high thrust line effect. Sort of like riding a
bicycle with one pedal. Then getting the other foot on a pedal and riding
with two. Suddenly there is a lot more force being applied. The drag on
the nose wheel will tend to compound the high thrust line and its
characteristic of pushing down on the nose.
I have no argument for or against, either nose or tail wheel, as I have no
argument with or without VGs. I have been there and done that, with
experience to back up my thoughts.
My MKIII and the couple other MKIII's with Hauck mods are "real" tail
draggers. Thom Riddle talks of his heavy tailed Slingshot. I can assure
you the Hauck/MKIII has more weight and much longer arm than a Slingshot. I
have flown both, many times, and can give a good comparison between my
airplane and a Slingshot. It will be much harder for a low time Kolb pilot,
or high time pilot of a standard built Kolb to adjust to my MKIII. However,
once you get the hang of it, in a short time it becomes normal, and the
benefits of not having to worry about getting your Kolb up on its nose,
either from power application or terrain surface or taxiing in a tail wind
will become quite apparent. In over 3,100 hours I have never had my MKIII
attempt to get the tail high and the nose low while maneuvering on the
ground in all types of terrain. I have put the Firestar, Firefly, and the
factory MKIII on their noses at one time or the other.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Like Rick N. suggested, maybe we should just get a flight in a MkIII and
relax. By all accounts, evidently Kolbs are some of the best taildraggers
around.
Mike W
Mike W/Kolbers:
Maybe get some "actual pilot time" in a MKIII will help get a better picture
of that aircraft's handling characteristics.
I find it difficult to make effective changes to a proven aircraft design
without having actual experience flying that aircraft.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
my extra two cents....
I do not think it is about liking one design or the other...It is
what sells...and allows one to stay in business...
Innovation shows that Kolb is a viable company...
I suspect that they could have sold many times as many planes
had the nose dragger been in the stable... Most people train in that
miserable straight jacket of a plane, the cessna 150, and most of
the time their instructor has no tail time....It is during this stage
that the tail dragger fear is instilled in the neophyte...
Too...Kolb has to be concerned about what engines will be
available in the near future... no 447 or 503 I hear...
imho again Herb
At 10:21 AM 11/15/2011, you wrote:
>
> > the tail dragger tames down and is no longer a scary monster.
> >
> > boyd young
> > mkiii utah
>
>
>Boyd,
>
> I suspect you are hitting the nail on the head the best. For
> those of us with little, or NO
>tailwheel time, I think all we want is a stable, unscary
>plane. Whether it is nosedragger, or taildragger,
>we mostly prefer non-wingdragger.
>
> Like Rick N. suggested, maybe we should just get a flight in a
> MkIII and relax. By all accounts,
>evidently Kolbs are some of the best taildraggers around.
>
>Mike W
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
my extra two cents....
I do not think it is about liking one design or the other...It is what
sells...and allows one to stay in business...
imho again Herb
Herb G/Kolbers:
Yes, I agree "staying in business" is of primary concern to Kolb Aircraft.
Another reason for all of us that build and fly Kolbs to give Kolb Aircraft
as much support as we can. Every little bit we use Travis Brown to supply
our parts, even if they cost a dollar or more, is a little bit more
insurance we are going to have Kolb Aircraft when we need them. If we fly
long enough, we are going to need repair and replacement parts.
I fly and have been flying my mkIII for nearly 20 years because I like my
airplane, I like what it does and what it doesn't do. If I didn't, I'd
either change it to suit "me" or I would sell it and build something else.
This flight to Starhill, LA, last weekend was great for refreshing my memory
of how much I enjoy the mkIII and my friends and folks that fly Kolbs. When
the mkIII sits in the hanger for months on end, I get those feelings I
probably need to sell it because of the cost of insurance, etc. Then I get
over to the airstrip, break ground, and I know why I still have it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
>
> If and when you ever fly a MKIIIx
> john h
> MKIII
> Titus, Alabama
John,
I'd say we're pretty much on the same page on this debate.
Re; the "if and when", at the moment, that and a few other things is
the question.
The latest glitch is a recent episode of glaucoma in my left eye. My
vision was down to
about 30% at it's worst. I can see shapes and colors, but zero detail.
Glaucoma usually causes
irreversible nerve damage. This is likely the case for me, too.
I've been back and forth to the Eye Doc in the last couple of months.
I had the laser surgery
on the last visit, gawd that hurt like hell!! Progress is slow, if at
all. The super expensive eye drops
to lower my excessively high internal eyeball pressure have finally
began to work. Now the IOP
(inter-occular pressure) is within acceptable ranges...and maybe 'some'
healing can begin.
I'd guess my left eye vision has improved to about 70% of normal.
Certainly better than it was.
The internal retina photographs do show a significant degree of
permanent eye loss. Most of
my tunnel vision is here to stay.
Regarding my plane, it's REALLY close to being done. I only have a
couple of days of tinkering with
odds and ends to wrap it up! At the moment, it's on hold.
Apologies to all about the Sad Sack dribble.
Mike Welch
Here's a shot of my plane last June. ALL Lexan has been installed since
this photo was taken.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Joy Of Flying A Kolb
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Kolbers:
Sorry to hear about Mike W's medical problems. I was already aware of them
through correspondence a couple weeks ago.
A reminder of why we put all the hours of work and sweat into building a
Kolb.
John Bickham took these photos at False River Airport, LA, as we were
getting ready and departing for Alabama.
Don't think he was using a telephoto lens for the aerial shots. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
The only good reason for a nose wheel is to avoid having to S turn a blind ship
down the taxiway.
That isn't a problem in a Kolb.
You would have to try hard to ground loop one too.
BB
MkIII, suzuki
Scottsville, NY
Floral City, FL
On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:02 PM, John Hauck wrote:
Like Rick N. suggested, maybe we should just get a flight in a MkIII and
relax. By all accounts, evidently Kolbs are some of the best taildraggers
around.
Mike W
Mike W/Kolbers:
Maybe get some "actual pilot time" in a MKIII will help get a better picture
of that aircraft's handling characteristics.
I find it difficult to make effective changes to a proven aircraft design
without having actual experience flying that aircraft.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Ultralight History
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
John
I really wanted to say that was before my time but... I was there and
remembered seeing that four engine Lazair. I was flying a Weedhopper nose
dragger at that point. I now enjoying flying my relatively ultra reliable
VW Powered MKIIIC. Thanks for the memories.
Rick Neilsen
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> Never thought I would see this Lazair on floats fly again, but found it
> after watching the Ultrastars fly at S&F 1984.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/OldChuckie#p/a/u/2/CaVLBrv4eQQ
>
> At the same S&F 1984, there was an ultralight ditch filled with water that
> served at the UL Seaplane Base in the UL area. One of the prettiest of the
> float equipped ULs was an Ultrastar, red and white sunburst, on fiberglass
> floats.
>
> There was also this 4 engine Lazair on floats. As you will see, the pilot
> flew barefooted with his britches legs rolled up. He must have had a
> little
> of Dick Rahill's (Kolb Firestar Factory Pilot) blood in him because he flew
> almost continually. Take off, very short circuit and plop back down in the
> ditch, just to take off again.
>
> Those were extremely good days.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 for sale...
From: "EdgePerformance" <post(at)edgeperformance.no>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Hi,
I am looking for a 912UL, but I cant manage to acsess to this site. Can you please
forward a direct link ?
Thomas
--------
Kitfox IV w\ Jabiru 2200 Turbo\Aerocarb
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358038#358038
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 for sale...
From: "Ralph B" <rstar447(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Gees, I hope it's not mine (the one that was stolen on 5/17/11) ...
(serial #4400582)
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL (engine and avionics stolen on 5/17/11. Hanger break-in)
N20386
done flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358057#358057
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Thank you all for the replies on this subject. I've taken in all this information
and thoughts on the idea of a nose wheel for my MK3X and I will probably weld
in extra support needed in case in the future I decide to put one on. My
cage has not been covered yet so this is the ideal time for me to do this. I
definitely will NOT test fly with a nose wheel. I only hope I can get a little
flight time with Brian before I test fly. Years ago I test flew my Cozy III
without instruction and did ok but it really wasn't very smart, very fast airplane.
If the weather is good next week I will be going to the Kolb factory to
visit with Travis, Dennis, and Brian. They have a prototype cage for me to
look at and I will take pictures.
Rick Lewis
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358065#358065
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Back in the day a Canadian ultralight called the Lazair could be built with
a wheel in the nose, but you would hardly call it a nosewheel. It was in
front of the pilot's feet. It was there to keep the nose from digging in if
the tail came up on landing. No steering. No brakes. The bottom of the wheel
hung below the fairing, or the front tubes. It was a fat plastic wheel that
might have started life on an all terrain garden cart.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:55 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
>
> Thank you all for the replies on this subject. I've taken in all this
> information and thoughts on the idea of a nose wheel for my MK3X and I
> will probably weld in extra support needed in case in the future I decide
> to put one on. My cage has not been covered yet so this is the ideal time
> for me to do this. I definitely will NOT test fly with a nose wheel. I
> only hope I can get a little flight time with Brian before I test fly.
> Years ago I test flew my Cozy III without instruction and did ok but it
> really wasn't very smart, very fast airplane. If the weather is good next
> week I will be going to the Kolb factory to visit with Travis, Dennis, and
> Brian. They have a prototype cage for me to look at and I will take
> pictures.
>
> Rick Lewis
>
> --------
> Rick Lewis
>
> (VW Watercooled Engine)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358065#358065
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Actually that nose wheel on the Lazair started life as a wheel for hang
gliders. You slipped them over the base tube and used a stop collar on one
side only. That's why the funny shape, so they wouldn't rub on the down
tube should you happen to use them.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:56 PM, pcking wrote:
>
>
> Back in the day a Canadian ultralight called the Lazair could be built
> with a wheel in the nose, but you would hardly call it a nosewheel. It was
> in front of the pilot's feet. It was there to keep the nose from digging in
> if the tail came up on landing. No steering. No brakes. The bottom of the
> wheel hung below the fairing, or the front tubes. It was a fat plastic
> wheel that might have started life on an all terrain garden cart.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:55 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
>
>
>>
>> Thank you all for the replies on this subject. I've taken in all this
>> information and thoughts on the idea of a nose wheel for my MK3X and I will
>> probably weld in extra support needed in case in the future I decide to put
>> one on. My cage has not been covered yet so this is the ideal time for me
>> to do this. I definitely will NOT test fly with a nose wheel. I only hope
>> I can get a little flight time with Brian before I test fly. Years ago I
>> test flew my Cozy III without instruction and did ok but it really wasn't
>> very smart, very fast airplane. If the weather is good next week I will be
>> going to the Kolb factory to visit with Travis, Dennis, and Brian. They
>> have a prototype cage for me to look at and I will take pictures.
>>
>> Rick Lewis
>>
>> --------
>> Rick Lewis
>>
>> (VW Watercooled Engine)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=358065#358065>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Could something like that be an alternative to a nose wheel? You would
have a taildragger with a fat tire in the nose just in case.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Actually that nose wheel on the Lazair started life as a wheel for
hang gliders. You slipped them over the base tube and used a stop collar
on one side only. That's why the funny shape, so they wouldn't rub on
the down tube should you happen to use them.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:56 PM, pcking wrote:
Back in the day a Canadian ultralight called the Lazair could be
built with a wheel in the nose, but you would hardly call it a
nosewheel. It was in front of the pilot's feet. It was there to keep the
nose from digging in if the tail came up on landing. No steering. No
brakes. The bottom of the wheel hung below the fairing, or the front
tubes. It was a fat plastic wheel that might have started life on an all
terrain garden cart.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:55 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
Thank you all for the replies on this subject. I've taken in all
this information and thoughts on the idea of a nose wheel for my MK3X
and I will probably weld in extra support needed in case in the future I
decide to put one on. My cage has not been covered yet so this is the
ideal time for me to do this. I definitely will NOT test fly with a
nose wheel. I only hope I can get a little flight time with Brian
before I test fly. Years ago I test flew my Cozy III without instruction
and did ok but it really wasn't very smart, very fast airplane. If the
weather is good next week I will be going to the Kolb factory to visit
with Travis, Dennis, and Brian. They have a prototype cage for me to
look at and I will take pictures.
Rick Lewis
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358065#358065
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Well, it worked for the Barling Bomber, not.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 8:13 PM, pcking wrote:
> **
>
> Could something like that be an alternative to a nose wheel? You
> would have a taildragger with a fat tire in the nose just in case.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:23 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
>
> Actually that nose wheel on the Lazair started life as a wheel for hang
> gliders. You slipped them over the base tube and used a stop collar on one
> side only. That's why the funny shape, so they wouldn't rub on the down
> tube should you happen to use them.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 6:56 PM, pcking wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Back in the day a Canadian ultralight called the Lazair could be built
>> with a wheel in the nose, but you would hardly call it a nosewheel. It was
>> in front of the pilot's feet. It was there to keep the nose from digging in
>> if the tail came up on landing. No steering. No brakes. The bottom of the
>> wheel hung below the fairing, or the front tubes. It was a fat plastic
>> wheel that might have started life on an all terrain garden cart.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 6:55 PM
>> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Thank you all for the replies on this subject. I've taken in all this
>>> information and thoughts on the idea of a nose wheel for my MK3X and I will
>>> probably weld in extra support needed in case in the future I decide to put
>>> one on. My cage has not been covered yet so this is the ideal time for me
>>> to do this. I definitely will NOT test fly with a nose wheel. I only hope
>>> I can get a little flight time with Brian before I test fly. Years ago I
>>> test flew my Cozy III without instruction and did ok but it really wasn't
>>> very smart, very fast airplane. If the weather is good next week I will be
>>> going to the Kolb factory to visit with Travis, Dennis, and Brian. They
>>> have a prototype cage for me to look at and I will take pictures.
>>>
>>> Rick Lewis
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Rick Lewis
>>>
>>> (VW Watercooled Engine)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=358065#358065>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ====**==============================**=
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**==============================**=
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
From: "Dan Breitigam" <dbrtgm(at)me.com>
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Hey Phil,
Sorry, I don't have the dimensions you need. I do have one of those mid 80's vintage
Twinstars with no canopy or nosecone over at the Collegedale airport.
You should come check it out sometime.
Dan
[quote="phactor9"]Thanks. That's my 1988 Twinstar. No canopy, nosecone, enclosure,
just bugs-in-the-teeth flying. I miss it very much.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358081#358081
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2011
Subject: Some success at last
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
After my neighbor offered the observation that I seemed to need an awful
lot of rudder to keep the Mk IIIX flying straight on take off I started
investigating and found that the vertical stabilizer was off ever so
slightly. See picture 1.
I removed the rudder trim tab and flew the airplane. You can see from
picture 2 that the airplane flew a bit sideways. The Yaw string is about 8"
long and I'd guess it is deflected about 2.5" giving a side slip of a
little over 18 degrees.
If you look carefully at picture 3 you can see how much the rudder is
deflected to keep the airplane flying straight in level flight. Sorry, I've
never tried to take a picture over my shoulder while trying to fly an
airplane straight and level.
After the vertical stabilizer was moved to align it straight down the tail
boom, I flew it again, still without a rudder trim tab. Under power, there
was no change in the results shown in picture 2. Pull the engine back to
idle and yaw string flows right down the line on the windscreen and the
ball is centered.
Where the improvement really shown was in the power off stall
characteristics. Before removing the trim tab, the airplane had a bad break
to the left almost immediately at the onset of buffeting and it took rapid
application of forward stick and right rudder to break it. Now with the
trim tab removed, the airplane flies straight with the engine at idle and
my feet off the rudder peddles. The stall is much more like that of my Mk
III, no wing drop and recovery only requires releasing the back pressure on
the stick.
I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane. I've
checked the engine alignment and it is straight down the centerline of the
airplane as best as I can measure it. Because Ken's prop no longer fits
after I lowered the engine mount to the factory recommended height, I'm
using my prop, adjusted for the difference in the gearbox ratios of Ken's
engine (2.62) and mine (4.00).
So, I'm taking heart in the fact that the airplane no longer wants to break
into a spin when stalled without power. I did not do a departure stall with
it, if the weather is nice again tomorrow, I may work up my courage and
give it a try. My airplane would not do a departure stall, it would just
hang on the prop until I release back pressure. Somehow I don't think I'll
get the same results with this airplane, but I've been wrong before.
Anyway, I think the airplane is much safer, although I can only fly it for
about 30 minutes before I get a cramp in my left calf.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane.
Anyway, I think the airplane is much safer, although I can only fly it for
about 30 minutes before I get a cramp in my left calf.
Rick Girard
Rick G/Kolbers:
Before I doubled the size of my rudder trim tab my mkIII flew about 1/2
bubble out of trim. Other than bugging me because it was not perfect, the
mkIII flew great that way. In fact, I flew the 17,400 mile flight in 1994,
that way.
I decided to experiment to correct this problem by offsetting the leading
edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. Moved it three times in 1/2"
increments. Each time there was insignificant improvement in the adverse
yaw.
After the experiment was over, I returned the upper vertical stabilizer to
its centered position and doubled the length of the rudder trim tab, from
one rib bay to two. That fixed the adverse yaw problem. Now my mkIII flies
in yaw trim with my feet off the pedals.
I believe the adverse yaw problem is caused by the way the rotating prop
blast hits the tail section. My prop turns counter clockwise when observed
from the rear. All the oil that is blown from the oil tank breather hose
hits the left side of the upper vertical stabilizer and the top of the left
horizontal stabilizer. My rudder trim tab counteracts this force.
That big pusher prop does a lot of weird things to some Kolbs.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: taildraggers?
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Hi,
It seems that some are making very heavy weather of the current trike
versus taildragger posts.
Some are just retiring to entrenched positions without really
considering the alternative very seriously.
I transitioned from gliders to microlights, going solo on a Quicksilver.
The old design, with tip draggers operated by pieces of string, if you
were lucky.
I also had some instruction on a Thruster, an Australian designed
taildragger which became very popular here. It was a tractor design but
apart from that very like the Kolb with a single pole fuselage and a 503
with a high thrust line.There was never any point made that taildraggers
were inherently more of a handful on the ground or of the `taildragger
problem`. I didn`t know that there was one. I had never flown a trike
gear and just accepted the fact that this was way airplanes behaved.
Consequently when I bought a plane of my own, like many pilots I
bought the design with which I was familiar.. A Thruster. I had many
happy hours in it.
Later I bought and built a Challenger. Not because it was a trike
undercart, but because it scored over the opposition. Taxiing the plane
for the first time was a revelation. It actually went where it was
pointed. It did not need constant attention in a cross wind taxy. It sat
firmly on 3 wheels and the rudder pedal linked nose wheel was as precise
as a car. Take offs were simplified. You started in flying position, no
raising the tail `to flying position` Just ease the front wheel off the
ground and that seemed to be the speed to transfer directional
authority to the rudder. Crosswind take offs and landing were a doddle.
I had experienced no trouble with the Thruster in this regard but this
was just so much simpler. The Challenger ran on rails. I still landed
pretty much in taildragger fashion, on the mains and tail low but as
soon as the nose was lowered, absolute directional control.
Then the Kolb became available in the UK and with a 4 stroke engine. I
had always liked the look of the Kolb ever since I saw its picture on
the door of a clubhouse during training. I bought one. I didn`t think
for a moment about `the taildragger problem`, What problem? I had never
experienced one. I am pretty happy with the Kolb but had I been offered
a choice of undercarriages when I placed the order then I would have
unhesitatingly gone for the trike. How hanging a wheel on the front
would have affected performance is open to argument. It would certainly
have produced a plane with different characteristics, but better or
worse, who knows?. I suspect that no argument will change the minds of
some people but I have approached the problem, because of the training
I received and the flying I have done in probably as neutral an attitude
as possible and given all things being equal I would go for a trike
configuration every time.
That being said I do have a sticker on my car that says ` REAL PILOTS
FLY TAILDRAGGERS`.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
Excellent! How often do you fly? I'll be looking forward to some trips over
there by air to get together to fly; you, me, Bob G, Scott K...
Phil
--- On Tue, 11/15/11, Dan Breitigam wrote:
From: Dan Breitigam <dbrtgm(at)me.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please?
Date: Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 10:36 PM
Hey Phil,
Sorry, I don't have the dimensions you need.- I do have one of those mid
80's vintage Twinstars with no canopy or nosecone over at the Collegedale a
irport.- You should come check it out sometime.
Dan
[quote="phactor9"]Thanks. That's my 1988 Twinstar. No canopy, nosecone, e
nclosure, just bugs-in-the-teeth flying. I miss it very much.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358081#358081
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Thanks, John. My Mk III is completely different from yours apparently. It
has almost no trim tab and the tab has almost no bend in it, maybe 10
degrees. The plane needs just a smidgeon of left rudder in climb and the
same amount of right rudder in cruise. No comparison to yours and none at
all to Ken's X.
I was pretty tired when I wrote last night and I got the wrong photo for
number 3. Here's the correct photo.
Rick
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:29 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> * *****
>
> I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyway, I think the airplane is much safer, although I can only fly it for
> about 30 minutes before I get a cramp in my left calf.****
>
> ** **
>
> Rick Girard****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Rick G/Kolbers:****
>
> ** **
>
> Before I doubled the size of my rudder trim tab my mkIII flew about 1/2
> bubble out of trim. Other than bugging me because it was not perfect, the
> mkIII flew great that way. In fact, I flew the 17,400 mile flight in 1994,
> that way.****
>
> ** **
>
> I decided to experiment to correct this problem by offsetting the leading
> edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. Moved it three times in 1/2"
> increments. Each time there was insignificant improvement in the adverse
> yaw. ****
>
> ** **
>
> After the experiment was over, I returned the upper vertical stabilizer to
> its centered position and doubled the length of the rudder trim tab, from
> one rib bay to two. That fixed the adverse yaw problem. Now my mkIII
> flies in yaw trim with my feet off the pedals.****
>
> ** **
>
> I believe the adverse yaw problem is caused by the way the rotating prop
> blast hits the tail section. My prop turns counter clockwise when observed
> from the rear. All the oil that is blown from the oil tank breather hose
> hits the left side of the upper vertical stabilizer and the top of the left
> horizontal stabilizer. My rudder trim tab counteracts this force.****
>
> ** **
>
> That big pusher prop does a lot of weird things to some Kolbs.****
>
> ** **
>
> john h****
>
> mkIII****
>
> Titus, Alabama****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Rick
Keep looking for that cure I don't think this is it. During primary
training I was trained to keep the ball centered at all times especially in
stall. In less I'm miss interpreting your description I have to believe you
were allowing the plane with the trim tab to yaw when going into stall.
I currently have the leading edge of my vertical stabilizer off set by
about an inch. I really couldn't tell any difference but it has to help the
trim tab do its work. My trim tab is defected about 45 degrees and seems to
be about right. I add left rudder under full power climb, right rudder
power off and just a bit left in cruise.
Big high thrust props flying at a high angles of attack produce lots of
asymmetrical thrust referred to a P factor. No thrust, no P factor. Your
photo was taken from one side so it will naturally look like it is
defected.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Thanks, John. My Mk III is completely different from yours apparently. It
> has almost no trim tab and the tab has almost no bend in it, maybe 10
> degrees. The plane needs just a smidgeon of left rudder in climb and the
> same amount of right rudder in cruise. No comparison to yours and none at
> all to Ken's X.
> I was pretty tired when I wrote last night and I got the wrong photo for
> number 3. Here's the correct photo.
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:29 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> * *****
>>
>> I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Anyway, I think the airplane is much safer, although I can only fly it
>> for about 30 minutes before I get a cramp in my left calf.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Rick Girard****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Rick G/Kolbers:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Before I doubled the size of my rudder trim tab my mkIII flew about 1/2
>> bubble out of trim. Other than bugging me because it was not perfect, the
>> mkIII flew great that way. In fact, I flew the 17,400 mile flight in 1994,
>> that way.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I decided to experiment to correct this problem by offsetting the leading
>> edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. Moved it three times in 1/2"
>> increments. Each time there was insignificant improvement in the adverse
>> yaw. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> After the experiment was over, I returned the upper vertical stabilizer
>> to its centered position and doubled the length of the rudder trim tab,
>> from one rib bay to two. That fixed the adverse yaw problem. Now my mkIII
>> flies in yaw trim with my feet off the pedals.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I believe the adverse yaw problem is caused by the way the rotating prop
>> blast hits the tail section. My prop turns counter clockwise when observed
>> from the rear. All the oil that is blown from the oil tank breather hose
>> hits the left side of the upper vertical stabilizer and the top of the left
>> horizontal stabilizer. My rudder trim tab counteracts this force.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> That big pusher prop does a lot of weird things to some Kolbs.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> john h****
>>
>> mkIII****
>>
>> Titus, Alabama****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
From: Danny <dan42101(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/yaw.html=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0AFrom: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>=0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 6:29 AM=0ASubject: RE: Kolb-List: S
ome success at last=0A=0A=0A-=0A-=0AI still have no idea why P factor i
s so strong in this airplane. -=0A-=0AAnyway, I think the airplane is m
uch safer, although I can only fly it for about 30 minutes before I get a c
ramp in my left calf.=0A-=0ARick Girard=0A-=0A-=0A-=0ARick G/Kolber
s:=0A-=0ABefore I doubled the size of my rudder trim tab my mkIII flew ab
out 1/2 bubble out of trim.- Other than bugging me because it was not per
fect, the mkIII flew great that way.- In fact, I flew the 17,400 mile fli
ght in 1994, that way.=0A-=0AI decided to experiment to correct this prob
lem by offsetting the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer.- Mov
ed it three times in 1/2" increments.- Each time there was insignificant
improvement in the adverse yaw.- =0A-=0AAfter the experiment was over,
I returned the upper vertical stabilizer to its centered position and doubl
ed the length of the rudder trim tab, from one rib bay to two.- That fixe
d the adverse yaw problem.- Now my mkIII flies in yaw trim with my feet o
ff the pedals.=0A-=0AI believe the adverse yaw problem is caused by the w
ay the rotating prop blast hits the tail section.- My prop turns counter
clockwise when observed from the rear.- All the oil that is blown from th
e oil tank breather hose hits the left side of the upper vertical stabilize
r and the top of the left horizontal stabilizer.- My rudder trim tab coun
teracts this force.=0A-=0AThat big pusher prop does a lot of weird things
to some Kolbs.=0A-=0Ajohn h=0AmkIII=0ATitus, Alabama=0A-=0A-=0A=0A
Archive Search & Download, 7-Day
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Maybe it's normal construction method by now, but when I built my Firestar
I made the front attachment for my vertical stabilizer a little wider than
necessary =97 maybe just an 1/8 inch =97 so that I could shim it either way
for desired trim. Seems like it was in the right place from the get go an
d I never needed to mess with it. ..or I'm just not that discriminating. ;
)
I'm not sure I know whether my prop induced yaw is P factor or corkscrew sw
irl hitting more the top half than bottom half. I believe shimming the eng
ine pitch angle will help either, but mostly the corkscrew effect.
Cheers,
-Ben
Firestar KXP, 1994
From: Danny <dan42101(at)yahoo.com<mailto:dan42101(at)yahoo.com>>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:17:15 -0800
tronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/yaw.html
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com<mailto:jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Some success at last
I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane.
Anyway, I think the airplane is much safer, although I can only fly it for
about 30 minutes before I get a cramp in my left calf.
Rick Girard
Rick G/Kolbers:
Before I doubled the size of my rudder trim tab my mkIII flew about 1/2 bub
ble out of trim. Other than bugging me because it was not perfect, the mkI
II flew great that way. In fact, I flew the 17,400 mile flight in 1994, th
at way.
I decided to experiment to correct this problem by offsetting the leading e
dge of the upper vertical stabilizer. Moved it three times in 1/2" increme
nts. Each time there was insignificant improvement in the adverse yaw.
After the experiment was over, I returned the upper vertical stabilizer to
its centered position and doubled the length of the rudder trim tab, from o
ne rib bay to two. That fixed the adverse yaw problem. Now my mkIII flies
in yaw trim with my feet off the pedals.
I believe the adverse yaw problem is caused by the way the rotating prop bl
ast hits the tail section. My prop turns counter clockwise when observed f
rom the rear. All the oil that is blown from the oil tank breather hose hi
ts the left side of the upper vertical stabilizer and the top of the left h
orizontal stabilizer. My rudder trim tab counteracts this force.
That big pusher prop does a lot of weird things to some Kolbs.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rsbooks.com>
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
>
.........................
> I still have no idea why P
>factor is so strong in this airplane.
>
Rick,
There are a couple of reasons. You have a high powered, high drag, and
light weight aircraft. When one trims roll to level the wings during
cruise, it counter acts propeller torque and possible P factor due to the
propeller axis not being parallel to the direction of flight. If there is no
trim on the rudder the aircraft will slip during cruise. To reduce this
slip one can reduce the P factor by washering the engine mounts to tilt the
engine front to back until one cannot obtain further improvement as
indicated by the ball or string. After this you are stuck with adding a
trim tab to the rudder to bring the nose around for your normal flight
loading and cruise conditions. Fly at any other condition and P factor and
engine torque will again come back into focus. Of course when you idle the
engine all of these factors disappear.
The reason it is so severe in Kolb aircraft is due to the fact that it takes
more power and torque to fly at a given cruise speed than a sleeker aircraft
of equal weight.
Also there is a flywheel gyroscopic progression effect caused by the
propeller, which indicates that low inertia propellers will reduc this
phenomena.
I am fortunate that I can rotate the reduction unit and off set the thrust
line to the left or right to compensate and dispense with the use of a
rudder trim tab at cruise.
fwiw
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
It is interesting that we went over this topic about a year ago, here is the thread,
with pictures of my original - and unneeded - nose gear assembly.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=75465&highlight
I still have the nose wheel assembly out in the hangar, and for whatever it takes
to cover the cost of shipping, I'll send it to whoever wants it.
Something we hashed over on another thread - as noticeable a difference it makes
to your trim when you put streamline coverings on the main gear legs, I suspect
that hanging a nose wheel down there is going to really add to the drag equation,
and require substantial additional nose up trim.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358110#358110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Rick G,
I know you are pretty good at analyzing stuff, and with that MkIIIX you're getting
a good work-out, but
have you checked whether the tailfeather cables are EXACTLY the same length (i.e.
matched sets)
and are you certain they are tight enough? I recall John H. saying they need to
be fairly tight to
maintain good flight characteristics.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I recall John H. saying they need to be fairly tight to maintain good
flight characteristics.
Mike Welch
They should be as tight as a banjo string.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
....you could put a handicap sticker next to the N number then too...lol
JUST KIDDING !!!!...LOL
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru
N327CS
JUST KIDDING !!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358120#358120
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Regarding my plane, it's REALLY close to being done. I only have a couple of days
of tinkering with
odds and ends to wrap it up! At the moment, it's on hold.
Apologies to all about the Sad Sack dribble.
Mike Welch
Here's a shot of my plane last June. ALL Lexan has been installed since this photo
was taken.
Mike ...YOUR AIRPLANE IS BEAUTIFUL !
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358121#358121
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Nose wheel on a Kolb MK3X
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Thanks, Chris!!!
You're very kind. Like our buddy Scott Thompson said,
"any plane can be made to look good from a few away". haha
Thanks again, Amigo!
>
> Mike ...YOUR AIRPLANE IS BEAUTIFUL !
>
> chris ambrose
> M3X/Jabiru
> N327CS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane.
>>>>>>>>>
i don't think that we are dealing with "P" factor,,, i think it is
simple prop wash, and it is so bad because the prop is so close to the
tail.... and there is no fuselage between the prop and tail.
"P" factor as explained to me when flying a c 150.
the air through the prop in straight and level flight should be
perpendicular to the prop. thus the ascending and descending blades of
the prop have the same bite in the air. when you are in a climb, the
prop disk is no longer perpendicular to the air flow. the descending
blade has a greater bite into the air then does the ascending blade. in
a C 150 with the prop turning clockwise when looking from the rear,
that means, in a climb, the prop blade on the right side has more pull
than the blade on the left. turning the plane to the left. SO you have
to add right rudder to fly straight.
change the concept to the kolb, on the 912, the prop turns counter
clock wise when looking from the rear,
if the air is perpendicular to the prop in level flight, the pull
should be the same, but in a climb, the prop blade while on the left
should have more bite into the air,,, wanting to yaw the plane to the
right,,, which should require left rudder,,,, but in fact as the
swirling mass of air hits the rudder, it moves the tail to the
right,(nose left) i have to add right rudder, not left as the "P"
factor would suggest, the "P" factor counteracts partially the prop
swirling factor, but not completely.
this is the simple strait forward explanation,,,, now we have to add
into the mix. the air that is being deflected downward from the effect
of the wing. that will change the entire dynamic of the problem. to
what extent,,, i dont know, that would probably require time in a wind
tunnel,
now with the 2 strokes, the prop turns clockwise looking from the
rear,,, and the pressure are on the opposite side compared to the
912's, and the rudder inputs and trim requirements are opposite.
boyd young
mkiii utah
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slingshot for sale
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I just saw a Kolb Slingshot w/ 503 posted for sale on Barnstormers.com.
As it happens, for reasons of economics, I've decided to put my Slingshot up for
sale too. Just posted an ad on Barnstormers. The reason for selling is that
I am losing my hangar partner (splitting 50% of hangar rent) soon and cannot justify
paying the entire hangar rent. I've been offered a share in a Diamond Katana
(the one I've been maintaining for about six years) which will end up getting
me back to about the same flying overhead cost I've had up until now. I'll
miss the Slingshot take-off & climb performance but the Katana is lots faster
and quieter.
Anyone interested in my excellent Slingshot should contact me through the Barnstormers
ad.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358127#358127
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/slingshotforsale_177.gif
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Where to buy two stroke oil?
Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get quantities, and at
what price?
Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued).
My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp injector ($35/gal) and
Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature additives for "power valves").
I told him it wasn't for marine, snow or road transport but for an ultralight,
and I wanted all the obvious qualities involved in feeding my two-stroke
engine.
He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his suppliers, either,
and suggested Amsoil would be the best.
Phil H.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FireFly - the plane I want!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list. Is this a member's
plane? I like it!
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358129#358129
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Greetings
From: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I'm a long time ultralight and gyro pilot. I recently bought a Firestar single
seat. Have about 6hrs on it now and love it. I fly out of Bear Creek here in central
N.C., a 2100ft grass strip. Any Kolbers in the area welcome to stop in.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358130#358130
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Where to buy two stroke oil?
Check out Aeroshell II plus (I think that is what it is called). I
haven`t tried it yet, however, after reading about it, I plan to use
it next spring. N598LF At 03:28 PM 11/16/2011, you wrote:
>Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get
>quantities, and at what price?
>
>Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued).
>
>My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp injector
>($35/gal) and Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature
>additives for "power valves"). I told him it wasn't for marine, snow
>or road transport but for an ultralight, and I wanted all the
>obvious qualities involved in feeding my two-stroke engine.
>
>He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his
>suppliers, either, and suggested Amsoil would be the best.
>Phil H.
>
>
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: FireFly - the plane I want!
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Is this a member's plane? I like it!
Tom Stephens
Looks like Terry Swartz near Smoke Town, PA.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Greetings
Date: Nov 16, 2011
I'm a long time ultralight and gyro pilot. I recently bought a Firestar
single seat. Have about 6hrs on it now and love it. I fly out of Bear Creek
here in central N.C., a 2100ft grass strip. Any Kolbers in the area welcome
to stop in. Thanks
Welcome to the Kolb List.
What is your name?
Found three Bear Creeks in NC. Which one is yours?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Where to buy two stroke oil?
Date: Nov 16, 2011
http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/brands-products/Single.aspx?pid=39&b
rand
That ought to fill the bill for Rotax air cooled engines.
That is as far as I looked.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Greetings
From: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Gary Safrit. I'm at NC79 4miles east of Mt. Pleasant.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358136#358136
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Tom Stephens wrote:
> I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list. Is this a member's
plane? I like it!
>
> Tom
That would be Terry FRANTZ. Do believe that he dropped from the list. I will
forward your email to him. He can contact you if he wishes.
Here is another shot of him/his plane.
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbplanes/Kolb05_04b.htm
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358137#358137
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Gary Safrit. I'm at NC79 4miles east of Mt. Pleasant.
Gary S/Kolbers:
Now I know where you are.
Thanks,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!
From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Ooops John, wrong "Terry".
Good friend Terry Frantz is the builder/ owner of that beautiful Firefly.
He usually monitors the list and will be happy to see his plane featured favorably
on this list.
Gene Z
On Nov 16, 2011, at 5:13 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Is this a member's plane? I like it!
> Tom Stephens
>
>
>
> Looks like Terry Swartz near Smoke Town, PA.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: FireFly - the plane I want!
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Ooops John, wrong "Terry"
Gene Z
Gene Z/Gang:
That was about as close as I could guess on the last name. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Okay, I'll go through this one question at a time.
"In less I'm miss interpreting your description I have to believe you were
allowing the plane with the trim tab to yaw when going into stall."
Yes, the trim tab was pushing the tail to the right (nose to the left) and
causing the aircraft to break hard left when stalled. With the trim tab
gone and my feet off the rudder peddles the yaw string and the ball are
centered when the engine is at idle. Any power above about 2800 rpm causes
the nose to push off to the right. The more power, the more the right yaw
requiring left rudder.
"Your photo was taken from one side so it will naturally look like it is
defected. "
It looks deflected because it is. It takes about half the left rudder
travel to center the ball and the yaw string. It's obvious enough that it
can be seen from 200 to 300 feet below, that's why my neighbor was able to
make his observation.
"have you checked whether the tailfeather cables are EXACTLY the same
length (i.e. matched sets)
and are you certain they are tight enough?"
Yep, making new cables was one of the first things I did on this aircraft.
They can be strummed like a base viola. One of the few things the OB did
was to get the holes in the horizontal stabilizers where the wires attach
exactly alike so the left and right
"when you are in a climb, the prop disk is no longer perpendicular to the
air flow. the descending blade has a greater bite into the air then does
the ascending blade."
Yep, that's the classic explanation, but both my plane and this X are 582
powered (prop rotation is clockwise viewed from the rear looking forward)
and "P" factor is pushing the nose to the right, which means it's the
ascending blade doing the pushing. Go figure. My interpretation of this is
that the air flowing over the wing is pretty broken up in climb and both
sides of the prop above the wing get that crappy inflow. The air coming
from under the wing is cleaner so now the ascending blade, on the left has
a lower angle of attack and the right side, descending blade is in a
stalled condition. It may be wishful thinking, but my Mk III behaves the
same way, except that it's not as extreme as it is on the X.
When I flew approach stalls yesterday I did them with my feet pulled back
so there's no way I was influencing the airplane's actions in yaw. Both
clean and with half flaps the yaw string and ball were centered and stayed
that way through the stall. I also did power off glides up to 65 mph and
the yaw string and ball were centered then, too, again, with my feet off
the rudder peddles.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM, b young wrote:
> **
>
> **
> I still have no idea why P factor is so strong in this airplane.
> >>>>>>>>>
>
>
> i don't think that we are dealing with "P" factor,,, i think it is simple
> prop wash, and it is so bad because the prop is so close to the tail....
> and there is no fuselage between the prop and tail.
>
> "P" factor as explained to me when flying a c 150.
>
> the air through the prop in straight and level flight should be
> perpendicular to the prop. thus the ascending and descending blades of the
> prop have the same bite in the air. when you are in a climb, the prop
> disk is no longer perpendicular to the air flow. the descending blade has
> a greater bite into the air then does the ascending blade. in a C 150 with
> the prop turning clockwise when looking from the rear, that means, in a
> climb, the prop blade on the right side has more pull than the blade on
> the left. turning the plane to the left. SO you have to add right rudder
> to fly straight.
>
> change the concept to the kolb, on the 912, the prop turns counter
> clock wise when looking from the rear,
>
> if the air is perpendicular to the prop in level flight, the pull should
> be the same, but in a climb, the prop blade while on the left should have
> more bite into the air,,, wanting to yaw the plane to the right,,, which
> should require left rudder,,,, but in fact as the swirling mass of air
> hits the rudder, it moves the tail to the right,(nose left) i have to
> add right rudder, not left as the "P" factor would suggest, the "P"
> factor counteracts partially the prop swirling factor, but not completely.
>
> this is the simple strait forward explanation,,,, now we have to add into
> the mix. the air that is being deflected downward from the effect of the
> wing. that will change the entire dynamic of the problem. to what
> extent,,, i dont know, that would probably require time in a wind tunnel,
>
> now with the 2 strokes, the prop turns clockwise looking from the
> rear,,, and the pressure are on the opposite side compared to the 912's,
> and the rudder inputs and trim requirements are opposite.
>
> boyd young
> mkiii utah
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Subject: Re: Where to buy two stroke oil?
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
"Two stroke AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 2 is the first aviation quality oil
that has been specifically developed for Light Sport, Very Light and
Ultralight 2-stroke engines such as the ROTAX=AE air and water-cooled serie
s
engines."
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/lubricants/piston_engin
e_oils/sports_plus2/
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Phil wrote:
> Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get quantities,
> and at what price?
>
> Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued).
>
> My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp injector
> ($35/gal) and Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature additives f
or
> "power valves"). I told him it wasn't for marine, snow or road transport
> but for an ultralight, and I wanted all the obvious qualities involved in
> feeding my two-stroke engine.
>
> He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his suppliers,
> either, and suggested Amsoil would be the best.
> Phil H.
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Some success at last
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Rick G/Kolbers:
Prop blast is hitting the right side of the upper vertical stabilizer,
clockwise prop rotation. Takes left pedal under power on the two stroke.
Just the opposite on the 912 series. Prop turns counterclockwise, blast
hits the left side of the upper vertical stabilizer. Takes right pedal or a
proper size rudder trim tab to keep the aircraft trimmed in yaw.
My Firestar had the same undesirable habit, but the Ultrastar, prop under
the tail boom, did not.
Don't think anything has changed with these airplanes until TNK stuck the
big nose on the MKIII.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2011
Thanks guys!
I see Terry has brakes, but no N number, so I assume he's running as an ultralight,
as I would want to?
Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly? I'm curious as to how
they compare.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358160#358160
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Support The Lists...
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Your Contributions
alone keep these services up and running.
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 17, 2011
John,
your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font
and blue in colour..
Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 17, 2011
<>
Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone
explain this to me.
That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching
from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so.
Curious
Pat
It seems to me that the airflow is always (apparently) approaching
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
At 05:40 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote:
><air flow>>
>
>Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone
>explain this to me.
>
>That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching
>from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so.
Pat, this is the usual explanation of P-Factor. If the engine is set so
the shaft is parallel to the airflow at cruise (prop disk perpendicular to
the airflow; the usual condition), then when you're flying slower (as in
climb) and at a greater angle of attack, the shaft is no longer parallel to
the airflow, i.e. the prop disk is no longer perpendicular. In this case
the difference in blade AOA between the blade going up and the blade going
down causes an asymmetric thrust, or P-Factor.
-Dana
--
In general, liberalism consists of A & B getting together to see what they
can make C do for poor old D.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Pat,
Yes, I receive (most of) John H's post with really big fonts, lately.
I thought he was just just thoughtful for the "poor sight crowd".
(that was a joke) But those 1/2" tall letters do make it easier for me
to read....and that's NOT a joke.
What is weird is, 'your emails', and several other guys' emails come
in SUPER tiny....I mean really "squint and focus"
tiny. And what's worse, is sometimes they also come in light blue, too.
Very hard to read light blue "warning label
sized print".
Obviously, someone has let loose the font gremlins recently.
Mike Welch
On Nov 17, 2011, at 4:25 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
> John,
> your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font
and blue in colour..
> Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
> Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clyde MacQuarrie <clydemacquarrie(at)eastlink.ca>
Subject: Re: Where to buy two stroke oil?
Date: Nov 17, 2011
I found Castrol TTS at the local Wal-Mart here in Nova Scotia, Canada
for $28.00 Plus taxes. Clyde MacQuarrie.
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to buy two stroke oil?
"Two stroke AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 2 is the first aviation quality oil
that has been specifically developed for Light Sport, Very Light and
Ultralight 2-stroke engines such as the ROTAX=AE air and water-cooled
series engines."
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/lubricants/piston_eng
ine_oils/sports_plus2/
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Phil wrote:
Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get
quantities, and at what price?
Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued).
My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp
injector ($35/gal) and Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature
additives for "power valves"). I told him it wasn't for marine, snow or
road transport but for an ultralight, and I wanted all the obvious
qualities involved in feeding my two-stroke engine.
He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his
suppliers, either, and suggested Amsoil would be the best.
Phil H.
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Some success at last
Date: Nov 17, 2011
John,
your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font and
blue in colour..
Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
Pat
Patrick/Kolbers:
I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed my Outlook
settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin didn't change it
for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do that?
I'll try and write smaller and blacker. ;-)
Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this
morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done if it doesn't
get too windy.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly? I'm curious as to
how they compare.
Tom Stephens
Tom S/Kolbers:
Both aircraft fly extremely well. They are easy to fly and will not bite
you as long as you keep the airspeed above stall and below VNE.
The Firestar has a 27 foot wing span and it 22 feet long, compared to the 22
foot wing span of the Firefly that is 19.5 feet long.
Compared to the longer winged Kolbs, the FF is very much a little hot rod
like its big brother the Slingshot. It has a quick roll rate and is
extremely agile. Does well in rough air.
Basically, all models of Kolb aircraft have the same easy, solid quality of
flight.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
> Do you think visiting porn sites could do that?
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
John H,
hahahaha......hahahahaha....
Doesn't seem to have affected my posts. Eeecks!!
Mike (still chuckling)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 17, 2011
<>
Thanks Dana,
Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to
climb and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the
airflow direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is
called the apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case
it would appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore
the P factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it?
Still curious
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Lanny Fetterman <donaho1(at)verizon.net>
Subject: P-factor, maybe this will help, maybe not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit confusing.
I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying lessons (in a
Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a perfect example of a
FireFly I'd like to have.
The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), there is
no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a plane tied up
outside, or tow it to the airport.
I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But with
the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole plane with
wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time now, but finally
realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly would be perfect in
that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space
in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
For those asking where I got Terry's photo: more Kolb photos contained within: http://www.flickr.com/photos/massey_aero/sets/72157623939871980/with/4551780446/
Bill Dougherty is the photographer.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358271#358271
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Date: Nov 17, 2011
I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
John,
Oh great, twist the knife ;-)
I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart. I really like being right out
in front. The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what
I like in being right out there.
So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254? Jack
Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under. I only weigh 160 dressed,
so I figure it should work fine? Not looking for super performance.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
If you increase power to climb so you keep the same airspeed, then AOA is
the same, and the amount of P-factor (zero or otherwise) should not change.
-Dana
At 10:12 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote:
><attack>>
>
>Thanks Dana,
>
>Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to climb
>and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the airflow
>direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is called the
>apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case it would
>appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore the P
>factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it?
>
>Still curious
>
>Pat
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that
counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Tom,
You could do what I do... keep your Kolb folded, in an enclosed trailer, at
the airport. I pay the outdoor tiedown rate, the plane is protected, and I
don't have to tow it every time I fly (but it's easy to bring it home to
work on it, or for the winter).
I've never flown a Challenger, but I get the impression from those who have
that the Kolbs are MUCH nicer flying planes.
-Dana
At 11:44 AM 11/17/2011, Tom Stephens wrote:
>The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW),
>there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a
>plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport.
>
>I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But
>with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole
>plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time
>now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly
>would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I
>might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
--
Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um....
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
I have ordered a Firefly from Travis and I am in the process of mapping out
my winter building schedule. I will be flying in the Spring. I plan on kee
ping it completely 103 legal. This will be my 2nd Kolb.
-
Phil H.
--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Tom Stephens wrote:
From: Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 12:20 PM
John,
Oh great, twist the knife ;-)
I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart.- I really like being righ
t out in front.- The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool,
that's what I like in being right out there.
So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254?
- Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under.- I only weigh
160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine?- Not looking for super per
formance.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com>
Tom --
I, too, did my UL training in a 2-seat Challenger. Later I had to chance
to fly two other single-seat Challengers. I've also flown a Firefly, and I
currently own a MkIIIC.
Everyone has their own opinion, but I can tell you unequivocally that the
Firefly is a ~much~ better UL than the Challenger, in virtually every
category. The Challenger is a good aircraft -- and much better than the
first UL that I owned, a Quicksilver MXL -- but the Firefly is just
better... controls are lighter, and the frame and construction is much
stiffer and stronger. The visibility is better, too, in the Firefly. I
wish I'd known about the FF before I bought that Quicksilver. YMMV.
-- Robert
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Tom Stephens wrote:
>
> It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit
> confusing. I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying
> lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a
> perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have.
>
> The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW),
> there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a
> plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport.
>
> I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But
> with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole
> plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time
> now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly
> would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I
> might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
>
> Tom
>
> --------
> Tom Stephens
> www.planeaday.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Subject: Re: FireFly - the plane I want!
In a message dated 11/16/2011 4:46:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tom(at)planeaday.com writes:
I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list. Is this a
member's plane? I like it!
Tom/All
That would be Terry Frantz from the Lancaster, PA area.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From: WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Some success at last
In a message dated 11/17/2011 11:27:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:
P- factor, as in, "I really need to land soon"
OK. Good definition. Nobody laughed at that comment yet, so I will
Hahahahahah.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
>the same?
The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
-Dana
--
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 17, 2011
You beat me to that one john I was going to say the same thing
I have flown a couple different challengers and the Kolb Airplanes are a
better airplane
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.
Tom
--------
om Stephens
If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away
.
john h
kIII
itus, Alabama
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Subject: Re: Some success at last
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you
now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
Rick
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
> the same?
>
>
> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
> wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
> increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
> also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
> shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>
> -Dana
> --
> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
> society.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up by the
same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have to be the
same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).
Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts aft
relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles.
In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus higher
AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.
-Dana
At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you
>now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
>
>Rick
>
>On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague
><d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
>>the same?
>The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
>wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
>increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
>also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
>shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>
>-Dana
>--
>Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
>
>
>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>
>.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>
>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>--
>Zulu Delta
>Mk IIIC
>Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
>It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 17, 2011
Tell me why I have to hold right rudder when applying power for
takeoff? If there's no P=factor on the ground ?
On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up
by the same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have
to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).
>
> Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts
aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable
angles.
>
> In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus
higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.
>
> -Dana
>
> At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>> The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as
you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague
wrote:
>> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>>
>>> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor
remain the same?
>>
>> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the
relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no
P-factor. If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same
airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is
still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>>
>> -Dana
>> --
>> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society.
>>
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>>
>>
>> www.aeroelectric.com
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> Email Forum -
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
> --
> Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2011
From: Danny <dan42101(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Helical propwash... In most planes you soon outrun most of it and can let o
ff on the rudder correction.- Then one more stab on them when the tail co
mes up.- I think that is the gyroscope influence.=0A=0A=0A- DjD=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>=0ATo
: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:23 PM=0ASu
bject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last=0A=0A=0ATell me why I have to ho
ld right rudder when applying -power for takeoff? If there's no P=facto
r on the ground ? =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote
:=0A=0AYou're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up
by the same amount.- If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have t
o be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).=0A>
=0A>Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts a
ft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles.=0A
>=0A>In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus h
igher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.=0A>=0A>-Dana=0A>=0A>At 08:42
PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:=0A>=0A>The minute you start to climb
the relative wind direction changes as you now have an upward vector and P
factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.=0A>>=0A>>Rick=0A>>=0A>>On Thu, Nov 17,
2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: =0A>>At 02:02 P
M 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: =0A>>Dana, "If you increase power to cl
imb", how exactly does P factor remain the same?=0A>>The flight condition w
e were talking about was cruise when the relative wind is parallel to the p
ropeller shaft, so there's no P-factor.- If you increase power to climb w
hile maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning
that the airflow is still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-facto
r.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-Dana =0A>>-- =0A>>Clothes make the man.- Naked people h
ave little or no influence on society. =0A>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
=0A>>.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>>="_blank">www.hom
ebuilthelp.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>get
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =0A>>tp://forums.m
atronics.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>=0A>>
=0A>>-- =0A>>Zulu Delta=0A>>Mk IIIC=0A>>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>>=0A>>It isn'
t necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.=0A>>
- - Groucho Marx=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>www.aeroelectric.com www.builder
sbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution-M
att Dralle, List Admin.Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Kolb-List- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com/- L
ist Contribution Web Site --Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution =0A>=0A>--=0A>Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you f
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Date: Nov 18, 2011
I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one>>
Hi Tom,
If you go for a Challenger in spite of the non folding wing be sure you get
the model with the enlarged fin and rudder. The original was much to small
and didn`t hold direction well at all. I built the original version and
later updated with a larger fin and an extension forward along the top of
the fuselage.
I didn`t put doors on and enjoyed the open cockpit feel. I also enjoyed the
superb controlled side slip possible in the Challenger. Unfortunately
approaching old age and stiffening joints meant that I could not get into
the cockpit without a struggle and a couple of drive belts shedding their
teeth and putting me sharply down in a field made up my mind. I changed her
out for the gentlemanly comfort of an Xtra which is the only Kolb available
over here. It is very nice and I enjoy it but it won`t sideslip worth a
damn. With the big flaps of course you shouldn`t need to sideslip but when
I make `bomber approaches` with half flap I sometimes miss being able to
pull the nose up, stick a wing down , give her a bootful of rudder and slide
over the hedge.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
At 09:23 PM 11/17/2011, kinne russ wrote:
>Tell me why I have to hold right rudder when applying power for takeoff?
>If there's no P=factor on the ground ?
There _is_ P-factor on the ground in a tailwheel airplane with the
tailwheel on the ground.
There are four turning effects from the propeller:
1. P-factor, or asymmetric blade thrust, whenever the axis of the prop
isn't parallel to the relative wind.
2. Spiraling slipstream from the prop, impinging more on one side of the
vertical stabilizer than the other (this may be less, or even in the
opposite direction with an engine mounted high over the rudder as in a
Kolb).
3. Direct torque (causes a roll effect as opposed to yaw).
4. Gyroscopic precession, which causes the plane to yaw while pitching, as
when you lift the tailwheel.
-Dana
--
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de
Saint-Exup=E9ry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Thanks Dana, and Lanny, and Wikepedia,
I think that at last I have got it. By visualising the reductio ad
absurdum case of the airflow over the propeller if a plane is descending
vertically but in a horizontal position. The airflow in that case would
be travelling over the prop blade in the same way as the wind over a
helicopter rotor with its well known, and easily visualised, advancing
and retiring blade.
I am still surprised however that the effect is noticeable in the case
of the comparatively low power and small diameter props that we
generally use. I would have just put it down to torque and coriolis
force and the tendency of a spinning disc to precess. Think of a
gyroscope.
I know better now. Thanks for your patience.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Hangars are very expensive at my airport, kpmp.
I'm lucky in that the flying club of which I'm a member (we have two Piper Archers
180's,) has an end unit in a row of T-hangers where we keep supplies and tools.
I rent room to slide my folded Mk III in the long side of the 1/2 "T".
This trick might be a good option for anyone seeking affordable shelter.
I pay a percentage of the rent based on the footprint of the Kolb.
On the subject of rudder trim, all private pilots learn that turning tendency is
induced by three forces- engine torque, slipstream and P-factor. My rudder trim
tab mitigates the yaw in cruise caused by slipstream (prop wash.)
In climb, the predominant turning moment is from P-factor (asymmetrical thrust
by the prop.) In a turn, drag caused by the up aileron causes adverse yaw in most
airplanes, requiring rudder to compensate. However, I haven't experienced
significant adverse yaw in my Kolb.
Hope that is helpful!
Dave Watkins
Mk III-C
Built by Steven Green.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358353#358353
________________________________________________________________________________
From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Date: Nov 18, 2011
As I understand things, if the plane/gyroscope is going straight ahead
there should be precession, no tendency to swerve. I think the plane
simply runs ahead of the helical propwash when it gains speed, so you
can ease up on your foot pressure. Is there any practical difference
between 'helical propwash' and 'P-factor'?
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Danny wrote:
> Helical propwash... In most planes you soon outrun most of it and can
let off on the rudder correction. Then one more stab on them when the
tail comes up. I think that is the gyroscope influence.
>
> - DjD
> From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last
>
> Tell me why I have to hold right rudder when applying power for
takeoff? If there's no P=factor on the ground ?
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
>
>> You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up
by the same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have
to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).
>>
>> Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts
aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable
angles.
>>
>> In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus
higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.
>>
>> -Dana
>>
>> At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>> The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as
you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague
wrote:
>>> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor
remain the same?
>>>
>>> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the
relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no
P-factor. If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same
airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is
still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>>>
>>> -Dana
>>> --
>>> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>>
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>>
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zulu Delta
>>> Mk IIIC
>>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>>
>>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
>>> - Groucho Marx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.aeroelectric.com
>>> www.buildersbooks.com
>>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> Email Forum -
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/
>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
> om
> >
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
> List
>
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
> >
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Some success at last
Date: Nov 18, 2011
On Behalf Of kinne russ
As I understand things, if the plane/gyroscope is going straight ahead
there should be precession, no tendency to swerve. I think the plane simply
runs ahead of the helical propwash when it gains speed, so you can ease up
on your foot pressure. Is there any practical difference between 'helical
propwash' and 'P-factor'?
Russ K/Kolbers:
That is what I have been sharing for a long time. The primary yaw problem
in the MKIII is the effect of helical prop wash. Take that problem away
and the adverse yaw problem goes away.
Clear evidence of where the prop wash hits the left side of the vertical
stabilizer and the top of the left horizontal stabilizer, on a 912 powered
MKIII, is enough for me to understand by I have to have a large rudder trim
tab to kick the rudder left and keep it in trim.
I have experimented with changing angle of thrust up and down, left and
right; moved the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer left; but
the large rudder trim tab was the fix for adverse yaw on my MKIII.
If you are ever around my airplane after I have made a long flight in
turbulent conditions you will see where the byproducts from the engine
crankcase breather hit the tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to buy two stroke oil?
From: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
I had a friend that worked in the lab at Homelite. They tested all the oils on
the market at the time. Texaco Havoline with Royalgard won. Any good quality organic
oil is fine as long as it contains a TCW-3 which is a rust inhibitor. Do
the Amsoil products contain a rust inhibitor? I've flown behind Rotaxes for
over 25yrs now with no oil related problems.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358360#358360
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "olendorf" <olendorf(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
There is a lot of confusing adverse yaw discussion in this thread already. Adverse
yaw is caused by ailerons. The down aileron has the extra drag and yaws the
plane opposite of the intended turn. This stuff is confusing enough especially
when you are just learning. Just saying.
p.s. I also am impressed with Terry's Firefly. Nice.
Scott Olendorf
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358362#358362
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil>
"Tom Stephens" wrote: << . And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space
in someone's hangar for the folded bird. Tom >>
Tom -
Welcome to the Kolb List. Sounds like you picked the right airplane (Kolb)
for your needs. Folding wings was a primary decision factor for me too, for
exactly the same reason you mention: Expensive hangar rent in your area.
The hangar in this picture rents for $180 per month - too much for me by
myself. The folding wings on my Mark-3 allow me to squeeze in a small space
in this hangar that I share with a Piper Pacer, and I consequently pay only
one-third the rent. The affordability is worth the 15 minutes it takes me
to erect the wings each time I fly.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, "Magic Bike" in
Sandia Park, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Tom, Another option you might wish to check out is half hangars. Every row
of "T" hangars has a half hangar at each end of the building.
I had one at KPAE (Paine Field at Everett, WA where Boeing builds the 747,
767, 777 and now the 787) and the rent was less than half what a full
hangar cost. They were also quicker to get, too. There was a three year
wait on average for a full hangar, but I got a half hangar within two
months of getting on the list for them.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS <
Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
> "Tom Stephens" wrote: << =85 And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find sp
ace
> in someone's hangar for the folded bird. Tom >>****
>
> ** **
>
> Tom '****
>
> ** **
>
> Welcome to the Kolb List. Sounds like you picked the right airplane
> (Kolb) for your needs. Folding wings was a primary decision factor for m
e
> too, for exactly the same reason you mention: Expensive hangar rent in yo
ur
> area. The hangar in this picture rents for $180 per month ' too much f
or
> me by myself. The folding wings on my Mark-3 allow me to squeeze in a
> small space in this hangar that I share with a Piper Pacer, and I
> consequently pay only one-third the rent. The affordability is worth the
> 15 minutes it takes me to erect the wings each time I fly.****
>
> ** **
>
> Dennis Kirby****
>
> Mark-3, =93Magic Bike=94 in****
>
> Sandia Park, NM****
>
> ** **
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Thanks for catching my error, Scott. You are correct. It's the down aileron that
pulls the aircraft in the opposite direction of the intended turn.
Must be the aging process...
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358373#358373
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firefly under 254 - How did you do it?
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
How many of you have/had FireFly's that were actually under 254?
How did you do it?
What motor did you use?
Is this possible?
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358383#358383
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Pat,
I'd still consider the Challenger, but NO folding wings :-(
All who are giving the FireFly flight characteristics, GREAT, thanks, I enjoy hearing!!
Phil,
What are you going to do to keep your FireFly within 103?... I'm very interested
in this... well of course, as you can tell from my other post. What was your
first Kolb and why did you decide upon the FireFly?
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358403#358403
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Dennis,
Thank you for the welcome!
Your picture is worth 1000 words. Now THAT's what I am hoping will work out.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358404#358404
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: "koxxy" <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
I have been struggling with the same issue. Too bad we have to select our flying
machines based on the hangar situation. For me, it boils down to:
Have affordable hangar or barn: Excalibur
Have partial hangar or enclosed trailer: Kolb
No hangar: all-metal plane (Zenith)
My FBO would let me keep an enclosed trailer on the field for the tie-down fee
($35/month), whereas a T-hangar would be $250+, plus waiting list.
Martin
Beaverton, OR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358410#358410
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Keeping the Firefly 103 legal, in my studies, should be a piece of cake. I'
m just going to follow the plans, and omit the nosecone and windshield to s
tart.
I'm using the CRE mz201 which is estimated at 73# including elec and pull s
tart, exhaust and muffler, and 1.77:1 belt reduc, and I don't have a firm q
uote yet, but it looks like I'll be swinging a 60-62" wooden TN prop.
I decided on the Firefly because I like the Kolb over all other airborne cr
itters I've seen, hands down, because I had a Twinstar before, I live 0.70
miles from 1a0 Dallas Bay Airpark, I don't want to go through inspections,
registrations, etc., and because I wanted to taste bugs again.
Phil H.
http://phactor.com/i/f3.jpg
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Tom Stephens wrote:
From: Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Date: Friday, November 18, 2011, 5:13 PM
Pat,
I'd still consider the Challenger, but NO folding wings :-(
All who are giving the FireFly flight characteristics, GREAT, thanks, I enj
oy hearing!!
Phil,
What are you going to do to keep your FireFly within 103?... I'm very inter
ested in this... well of course, as you can tell from my other post.- Wha
t was your first Kolb and why did you decide upon the FireFly?
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358403#358403
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
koxxy wrote:
> I have been struggling with the same issue. Too bad we have to select our flying
machines based on the hangar situation. For me, it boils down to:
> Have affordable hangar or barn: Excalibur
> Have partial hangar or enclosed trailer: Kolb
> No hangar: all-metal plane (Zenith)
>
> My FBO would let me keep an enclosed trailer on the field for the tie-down fee
($35/month), whereas a T-hangar would be $250+, plus waiting list.
>
> Martin
> Beaverton, OR
Many select the Kolb for other reasons (not the least of which is that it's a great
airplane) and then get the added benefits of lower berthing costs and portability.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358413#358413
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: Martin Koxxy <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com>
Yes, of course. All these airplanes have their strengths and weaknesses.
And the builder's budget plays a big role. But that's the point I am
making: the hangar situation should not be the deciding factor, but for
many of us, it is. If I cannot find a place to store the plane under some
sort of cover, I'll have to pass on anything that is fabric covered, no
matter how good the plane is otherwise.
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM, George Alexander wrote:
>
>
> koxxy wrote:
> > I have been struggling with the same issue. Too bad we have to select
> our flying machines based on the hangar situation. For me, it boils down to:
> > Have affordable hangar or barn: Excalibur
> > Have partial hangar or enclosed trailer: Kolb
> > No hangar: all-metal plane (Zenith)
> >
> > My FBO would let me keep an enclosed trailer on the field for the
> tie-down fee ($35/month), whereas a T-hangar would be $250+, plus waiting
> list.
> >
> > Martin
> > Beaverton, OR
>
>
> Many select the Kolb for other reasons (not the least of which is that
> it's a great airplane) and then get the added benefits of lower berthing
> costs and portability.
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://www.oh2fly.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358413#358413
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Phil,
"and because I wanted to taste bugs again" Ahhh, the most important reason ;-)
How are you going to mount the MZ201?
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358418#358418
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Danny <dan42101(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Some success at last
Take the front wheel off the nearest "English Racer", hold it by the axle a
nd spin it up.- Now tilt it as if it were your prop disc when the tail co
mes up.- The effect is quite strong but brief... =0AClick here to read mo
re...=0A-=0A=0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, November 18,
2011 7:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last=0A=0A=0AAs I un
derstand things, if the plane/gyroscope is going straight ahead there shoul
d be precession, no tendency to swerve. I think the plane simply runs ahead
of the helical propwash when -it gains speed, so you can ease up on your
foot pressure. Is there any practical difference between 'helical propwash
' and 'P-factor'? =0A=0A=0AOn Nov 17, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Danny wrote:=0A=0A
Helical propwash... In most planes you soon outrun most of it and can let o
ff on the rudder correction.- Then one more stab on them when the tail co
mes up.- I think that is the gyroscope influence.=0A>=0A>=0A>- DjD=0A>=0A
>=0A>________________________________=0A>From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.co
m>=0A>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0A>Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:2
3 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last=0A>=0A>=0A>Tell me why
I have to hold right rudder when applying -power for takeoff? If there's
no P=factor on the ground ? =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05
PM, Dana Hague wrote:=0A>=0A>You're climbing, you have an upward vector, b
ut the plane pitches up by the same amount.- If the airspeed is the same,
then Cl and AOA have to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to th
e plane's weight).=0A>>=0A>>Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the
gravity vector shifts aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small f
or reasonable angles.=0A>>=0A>>In a normal climb, of course, you're flying
slower than cruise, thus higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.=0A
>>=0A>>-Dana=0A>>=0A>>At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:=0A>>=0A
>>The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you
now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.=0A>>>
=0A>>>Rick=0A>>>=0A>>>On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: =0A>>>At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
=0A>>>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor rem
ain the same?=0A>>>The flight condition we were talking about was cruise wh
en the relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-fa
ctor.- If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed
, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel
to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>-Dana =0A>>>--
=0A>>>Clothes make the man.- Naked people have little or no influence on
society. =0A>>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com =0A>>>.com" target="_blank">
www.buildersbooks.com =0A>>>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com =0A>>>_blank"
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>get="_blank">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =0A>>>tp://forums.matronics.com =0A>>>_blank"
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>-- =0A>>>Zulu Delt
a=0A>>>Mk IIIC=0A>>>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>>>=0A>>>It isn't necessary to hav
e relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.=0A>>>- - Groucho Marx
=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com ww
w.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution-Matt Dralle, L
ist Admin.Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com/- List Contrib
ution Web Site --Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution =0A>>=0A>>--=0A>>Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a ro
ck.-- =0A>=0A>3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.homebuil
thelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.comhref="
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day
========================
======
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Absolutely. You aren't really flying unless you're eatin' bugs.
I plan to mount the mz201 upright with the belt reduc down. The bolt patter
n is 102 sts (side-to-side) x 202 ftb (front-to-back). I don't have the Rot
ax 447 and 503 sts dimensions, but ftb looks to be 143 and 153, respectivel
y.
201- 102mm x 202mm
447- ???mm x 143mm
503- ???mm x 153mm
I also really hope I'm able to hang the muffler down in between the aileron
pushpull rods, similar to the way this gentlemen did. I don't know where I
got this pic, but I really like the idea!
http://phactor.com/Kolb/DownExhaust.jpg
I've yet to determine where to align the reduc, but I'm certainly going to
attempt a left-of-center PTO. Jack Hart goes into a great discussion on P-f
actor, trimming, and offset thrust by moving the PTO left-of-center by rota
ting the reduc to the 305, 270 and 235 degree positions (roughly 10:30, 9:0
0 and 7:30 positions), here:
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly56.html
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly129.html
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly101.html
Jack, if you're listening, please chime in!
Phil
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Tom Stephens wrote:
From: Tom Stephens <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
Date: Friday, November 18, 2011, 7:26 PM
Phil,
"and because I wanted to taste bugs again"- Ahhh, the most important reas
on ;-)
How are you going to mount the MZ201?
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358418#358418
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "Tom Stephens" <tom(at)planeaday.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2011
Phil,
I am used to the MZ-34 with the mount in back. Sorry about that. I see that the 201 is "normal": http://www.compactengines.com/MZ-201-lite1.jpg
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358431#358431
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
From: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
olendorf wrote:
> There is a lot of confusing adverse yaw discussion
If any of you feel incipient confusion, git yersef a copy of "Stick and Rudder",
unless you have one already. GOOD explanations of alla this, as I recall. Not
that you need it... I came into the discussion a few days late, sounds settled
already.
--------
GeoB
"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers,
so we could identify their corporate sponsors"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358439#358439
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: The Value of a Forum...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Arn't the Lists worth at
least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount
and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses?
Come to think of it, you do...
Won't you take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists?
Please make a Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: radio noise
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Pat Ladd,
I bought some ferrite chokes from Radio Shack last week.They were about $3.
00 for a pack of two of them.I snapped them around the RG58 antenna cable a
nd really reduced the amount of noise I was getting from the engines high
tension electrics and the GPS.
G.Aman
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model Kolbs
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Kolb people,
I have been kicking around the idea of building a scale Kolb model airplane.
I'm not set on a particular model,
any of the various designs would be okay. (Firefly, Firestar, MkIIIC or X, Slingshot,
Kolbra....all
good contenders)
Has anyone, or do you know of anyone, who has measured ANY of the Kolb fuselages,
and various
structures, like wings, tailfeathers, etc., and come up with a set of scaled plans.
Depending how much
information there is, if I can get it close enough, I may try to make it RC controlled...or
at the very least,
it would make a nice home office hanging ornament.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2011
From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
Someone brought one to a Kolb Homecoming some years back.... Radio
controlled Firefly as I recall...Herb
At 02:35 PM 11/19/2011, you wrote:
>
>Kolb people,
>
> I have been kicking around the idea of building a scale Kolb
> model airplane. I'm not set on a particular model,
>any of the various designs would be okay. (Firefly, Firestar,
>MkIIIC or X, Slingshot, Kolbra....all
>good contenders)
>
> Has anyone, or do you know of anyone, who has measured ANY of the
> Kolb fuselages, and various
>structures, like wings, tailfeathers, etc., and come up with a set
>of scaled plans. Depending how much
>information there is, if I can get it close enough, I may try to
>make it RC controlled...or at the very least,
>it would make a nice home office hanging ornament.
>
>Mike Welch
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
From: simonnelson(at)vodamail.co.za
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Sounds good, 1.7 meter span. 4 cell poly pack, out runner with a 13 x 8 prop, 6
servos, all built up balsa. Covered in Solatex.
Lot of fun to fly
Send pictures when you are done.
Sy
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:35:15
Kolb people,
I have been kicking around the idea of building a scale Kolb model airplane.
I'm not set on a particular model,
any of the various designs would be okay. (Firefly, Firestar, MkIIIC or X, Slingshot,
Kolbra....all
good contenders)
Has anyone, or do you know of anyone, who has measured ANY of the Kolb fuselages,
and various
structures, like wings, tailfeathers, etc., and come up with a set of scaled plans.
Depending how much
information there is, if I can get it close enough, I may try to make it RC controlled...or
at the very least,
it would make a nice home office hanging ornament.
Mike Welch
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
Date: Nov 19, 2011
On Nov 19, 2011, at 3:21 PM, simonnelson(at)vodamail.co.za wrote:
>
> Sounds good, 1.7 meter span. 4 cell poly pack, out runner with a 13 x 8 prop,
6 servos, all built up balsa. Covered in Solatex.
>
> Lot of fun to fly
>
> Send pictures when you are done.
>
>
> Sy
Sy,
Do you have any pictures of this plane you refer to?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2011
From: Vincent Nicely <vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
Hi All,
I have read the discussion of Kolb storage with interest. I have chosen
a solution that has worked very well for me over the last 16 years that
I would like to add to the discussion.
I have a Kolb Firestar II which currently has 510 hours. I keep it in
my garage in town, and I use an uncovered trailor to take it to the
airport and back. Typical trip to the airport is 25 miles one way. I
could get an actual count of the times I have done this, but will rather
estimate it at 175 times over the last 16 years. I have devised some
simple jigs that make assembling an disassembling the airplane a quick
and easy one-man job. A typical day of flying for me, such as today in
which I flew 2.9 hours, is to roll the airplane out of the garage, put
it on the trailer, got to the airport, etc. Coming home is just the
reverse process. With a well thought out plan, it is simple, easy and
quick.
So, for those with the urge, a garage and no acceptable access to a
hanger, there is another way.
Vince
Firestar II, Rotax 503 DCDI 510 hours
N8233G
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8XP5VRzOKo&feature=related
--------
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents
the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern
These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358550#358550
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: radio noise
From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Something I did that was easy and helped cut down radio noise a lot: I disconnected
the radio hot lead from the avionics bus and ran the power wire and ground
wire straight to the battery with a small inline fuse. The radio power is now
separate from the rest of the airplane. Big improvement.
The next biggest help - although a lot more trouble, and you need to do it when
you build the airplane - use shielded wire for your mag switches. Those nasty
little wires come right off your magneto and carry rapidly pulsing AC. Your spark
plug wires are doing the same thing, at a higher voltage, but they are short,
your kill switch wires are many feet long.
Worth what ya paid fer it -
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358551#358551
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
From: "SS568" <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Greetings Vince,
It seems you have the process down pat. Would you share some pictures of your
jigs and trailer.
Thanks,
David d.
--------
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358552#358552
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arksey(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arksey(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2011
Subject: Re: Folding Wings and Hangar Space
makes a lot of sense to this old michigan kolb pilot...
Jim Swan Kolb Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi
48827 ph 517-663-8488 GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825
In a message dated 11/19/2011 8:16:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Vincent Nicely
Hi All,
I have read the discussion of Kolb storage with interest. I have chosen
a solution that has worked very well for me over the last 16 years that
I would like to add to the discussion.
I have a Kolb Firestar II which currently has 510 hours. I keep it in
my garage in town, and I use an uncovered trailor to take it to the
airport and back. Typical trip to the airport is 25 miles one way. I
could get an actual count of the times I have done this, but will rather
estimate it at 175 times over the last 16 years. I have devised some
simple jigs that make assembling an disassembling the airplane a quick
and easy one-man job. A typical day of flying for me, such as today in
which I flew 2.9 hours, is to roll the airplane out of the garage, put
it on the trailer, got to the airport, etc. Coming home is just the
reverse process. With a well thought out plan, it is simple, easy and
quick.
So, for those with the urge, a garage and no acceptable access to a
hanger, there is another way.
Vince
Firestar II, Rotax 503 DCDI 510 hours
N8233G
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: radio noise
Date: Nov 19, 2011
i installed an aprs ham radio tracker,,, and every time it sent out a
packet i could hear it in the intercom and it interfered with the eis... i
installed a ferrite bead in the power line to the tracker and eliminated the
noise and interference.. i also used coax for the mag switches. good
ideas going around here.
boyd young
mkiii ut
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something I did that was easy and helped cut down radio noise a lot: I
disconnected the radio hot lead from the avionics bus and ran the power wire
and ground wire straight to the battery with a small inline fuse. The radio
power is now separate from the rest of the airplane. Big improvement.
The next biggest help - although a lot more trouble, and you need to do it
when you build the airplane - use shielded wire for your mag switches. Those
nasty little wires come right off your magneto and carry rapidly pulsing AC.
Your spark plug wires are doing the same thing, at a higher voltage, but
they are short, your kill switch wires are many feet long.
Worth what ya paid fer it -
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
From: simonnelson(at)vodamail.co.za
Date: Nov 20, 2011
No, sorry, I design in my mind, just built a slope soarer in a day.
An RC Kolb sounds good.
Sy
------Original Message------
From: Michael Welch
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Model Kolbs
Sent: Nov 20, 2011 00:23
On Nov 19, 2011, at 3:21 PM, simonnelson(at)vodamail.co.za wrote:
>
> Sounds good, 1.7 meter span. 4 cell poly pack, out runner with a 13 x 8 prop,
6 servos, all built up balsa. Covered in Solatex.
>
> Lot of fun to fly
>
> Send pictures when you are done.
>
>
> Sy
Sy,
Do you have any pictures of this plane you refer to?
Mike
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: radio noise
Date: Nov 20, 2011
re radio noise.
Thanks Gary.
Took the plane out of the air for the winter yesterday. Battery out,
everything drained, wheels off the ground, plugs out and cylinders
sprayed with oil so I won`t be able to do anything serious until the
Spring.
The day of course turned out to be one of the best we have had for
weeks. Sunny, windless with high thin cloud. Dammit!
To make me feel better today is misty, damp and cooler and the forecast
is for dropping temps next week.This weekend last year the snow started
and went on until February. This autumn is the most extended I can
remember. Leaves are still on the trees and have not really changed
colour. It has been sunny and warm. I have been wandering around without
a coat. Birds are beginning to nest because they are responding to the
Springlike weather. Very confusing.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Kolbs
From: "mlblank" <mlblank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2011
Here is a nice RC replica of a Kolb Mark III www.scttf.org/Club/members/KeathToney.htm
Scroll to the bottom of the page.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358580#358580
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: radio noise
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2011
Yesterday was not a very pleasant day to fly.On a 180 heading at 2500 ft gr
ound speed was below 40 and the return trip was bumpy enough to require ful
l control inputs to keep the MK3 close to flat.Luckily I had a 230# passeng
er and ground speeds in the 80,s while keeping the airspeed in the 50,s bec
ause of the turbulence.In retrospect,should have followed Pat's lead and pa
rked it.
My passenger,Gary Jindra,had the final inspection of his MK3 on Friday mo
rning and it,s first flight shortly after.A little more pitch in the prop a
nd some left rudder trim and it should be ready for duty.A very nicely done
3 yr project,including a 582 with a heater core with a small fan nestled i
n the nose cone.We'll see how that works out shortly.Temps were in the low
30's on Wednesday and back into the 60's by Saturday but with high winds ou
t of the SW both days.Time to go south.
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A 655hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 6:01 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: radio noise
re radio noise.
Thanks Gary.
Took the plane out of the air for the winter yesterday. Battery out, everyt
hing drained, wheels off the ground, plugs out and cylinders sprayed with o
il so I won`t be able to do anything serious until the Spring.
The day of course turned out to be one of the best we have had for weeks. S
unny, windless with high thin cloud. Dammit!
To make me feel better today is misty, damp and cooler and the forecast is
for dropping temps next week.This weekend last year the snow started and we
nt on until February. This autumn is the most extended I can remember. Leav
es are still on the trees and have not really changed colour. It has been s
unny and warm. I have been wandering around without a coat. Birds are begin
ning to nest because they are responding to the Springlike weather. Very co
nfusing.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Original Firestar II for sale.........thumbs
From: "thumbs" <gbthacker(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 20, 2011
SOLD
--------
Gary
Souderton, Pa.
Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358606#358606
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Mz 201
Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 201 on a Kolb I was thinking about it for a
Firefly as it would be lighter and I need to put hand controls on for my r
udder as i cant use my feet , t,hey claim 69 lbs including electric start ,
reduction, muffler ,a complete-40 hp engine rig that only turns 4700 rpm
? that makes me wonder if I could get enough prop on it to make that thing
fly like a Kolb should?=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADi
sabled from crash building Firefly
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
- Chris- The original Firestar got away with a Rotax 377, so why not?-
And Jack Hart is using one smaller than that- the MZ 34, rated for 30hp.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Bill=0A Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ FS 447
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis wrote:
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:=0A Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 11:57 AM
Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 201 on a Kolb I was thinking about it for a
Firefly as it would be lighter and I need to put hand controls on for my r
udder as i cant use my feet , t,hey claim 69 lbs including electric start ,
reduction, muffler ,a complete-40 hp engine rig that only turns 4700 rpm
? that makes me wonder if I could get enough prop on it to make that thing
fly like a Kolb should?=0AChris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed -- List of Contributors Published Dec
1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
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As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the Lists
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
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Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
I've recently ordered my Firefly from Travis and the mz201 engine and get t
hem both in a few weeks. I'm planning on swinging somewhere around a 60-62"
Tennessee wooden prop - I don't quite know the pitch yet - call Steve at T
N props - (931) 455-4516 for Qs.
The belt reduc is 1.77:1. The prop therefore swings around 2,650 rpm at the
mz201's 4,700 max rpm. I opted for a single ignition magneto version of th
e mz201 (lighter!). A battery will still be needed if I want to take advant
age of the elec start.
-
Phil H.
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, william sullivan wrote:
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 12:08 PM
- Chris- The original Firestar got away with a Rotax 377, so why not?-
And Jack Hart is using one smaller than that- the MZ 34, rated for 30hp.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ FS 447
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis wrote:
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 11:57 AM
Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 201 on a Kolb I was thinking about it for a
Firefly as it would be lighter and I need to put hand controls on for my r
udder as i cant use my feet , t,hey claim 69 lbs including electric start ,
reduction, muffler ,a complete-40 hp engine rig that only turns 4700 rpm
? that makes me wonder if I could get enough prop on it to make that thing
fly like a Kolb should?
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Bill I understand all the numbers but real experiance is all I was looking
for ? thanks for the comeback . Chris- =0APS I was just dreaming about fl
ying a rocket like i remember my KXP=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AG
lider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>=0ATo:
kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:08 PM=0ASubje
ct: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201=0A=0A- Chris- The original Firestar got away wi
th a Rotax 377, so why not?- And Jack Hart is using one smaller than that
- the MZ 34, rated for 30hp.=0A=0A-------------
-------------------------
------------------ Bill Sullivan=0A-
-------------------------
-------------------------
----- Windsor Locks, Ct.=0A------------
-------------------------
------------------- FS 447=0A=0A--- O
n Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>From: ch
ris davis =0A>Subject: Kolb-List: Mz 201=0A>To: "kolb-
list(at)matronics.com" =0A>Date: Monday, November 21,
2011, 11:57 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 201 on a Kolb I
was thinking about it for a Firefly as it would be lighter and I need to pu
t hand controls on for my rudder as i cant use my feet , t,hey claim 69 lbs
including electric start ,reduction, muffler ,a complete-40 hp engine ri
g that only turns 4700 rpm ? that makes me wonder if I could get enough pro
p on it to make that thing fly like a Kolb should?=0A>Chris DavisKXP 503 49
ad, 7-Day
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Phil That sounds great I must admit that it was-your discussion with Tom
Stephens that got me interested- , that and the fact that to stay legal w
eight wise I will have a problem with the 447 that it was designed with .Yo
ur plan sounds real good I hope it works out great .My firefly is on the ge
ar but naked and a long way from flying , it is in Florida and I am in Ma.
Only get to work on it when I go south in the winter which I dont know if i
can afford this year . I am trying to sell the place I have down there and
rebuild my shop here in Ma. we will see . thanks for the come back- mayb
e someone who has one flying will answer my post and we will all be able to
learn-------Chris=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGl
ider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A_________________
_______________=0AFrom: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: kolb-list@matronics
.com =0ASent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List:
Mz 201=0A=0AI've recently ordered my Firefly from Travis and the mz201 engi
ne and get them both in a few weeks. I'm planning on swinging somewhere aro
und a 60-62" Tennessee wooden prop - I don't quite know the pitch yet - cal
l Steve at TN props - (931) 455-4516 for Qs.=0AThe belt reduc is 1.77:1. Th
e prop therefore swings around 2,650 rpm at the mz201's 4,700 max rpm. I op
ted for a single ignition magneto version of the mz201 (lighter!). A batter
y will still be needed if I want to take advantage of the elec start.=0A=0A
Phil H.--- On Mon, 11/21/11, william sullivan wr
ote:=0A=0A>From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>=0A>Subject: Re
: Kolb-List: Mz 201=0A>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com=0A>Date: Monday, Novembe
r 21, 2011, 12:08 PM=0A>=0A>=0A>- Chris- The original Firestar got away w
ith a Rotax 377, so why not?- And Jack Hart is using one smaller than tha
t- the MZ 34, rated for 30hp.=0A>=0A>------------
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan=0A>
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Windsor Locks, Ct.=0A>-----------
-------------------------
-------------------- FS 447=0A>=0A>
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>=0A>>Subject: Kolb-List: Mz 201=0A>>
ovember 21, 2011, 11:57 AM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 20
1 on a Kolb I was thinking about it for a Firefly as it would be lighter an
d I need to put hand controls on for my rudder as i cant use my feet , t,he
y claim 69 lbs including electric start ,reduction, muffler ,a complete-4
0 hp engine rig that only turns 4700 rpm ? that makes me wonder if I could
get enough prop on it to make that thing fly like a Kolb should?=0A>>Chris
DavisKXP 503 492 hrsGlider PilotDisabled from crash building Firefly =0A>o
llow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com/" rel=nofollow target=_bla
nk>www.buildersbooks.comofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=nofollow ta
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listet=_blank>ht
tp://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/c
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Mz 201
Date: Nov 21, 2011
Bill I understand all the numbers but real experiance is all I was looking
for ? thanks for the comeback . Chris
PS I was just dreaming about flying a rocket like i remember my KXP
Chris D/Folks:
If I was going to build and fly a Firefly, I'd put a 503 single carb on it.
The 503 is probably the most reliable Rotax two stroke.
I have flown the FF quite a bit with the 447. It performs about like my
original Firestar with a 447. I wouldn't want anything less than a 447 on
a FS.
Most of us fly for the fun of flying, performance and that mighty Kolb
climb. If you under power your airplane, it ain't going to fly for a Kolb.
Some folks fly to say on gas with the very minimum HP they can get by with
to get the Kolb off the ground. If you go light on power, you'll be flying
behind the power curve more than yanking and banking and having a good
time.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Chris, I've yet to hear of anyone with the mz201 on ANY Kolb yet speak up,
although I'm aware of mz201/202s on trikes, gyros, etc.
Steve at TN Props says they can adjust the pitch if needed. He said they ca
n do this once to the wooden props, and that he does it often. I'm favoring
the TN prop because of the savings in cost (1/2!) and weight.
Phil
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis wrote:
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 2:24 PM
Phil That sounds great I must admit that it was-your discussion with Tom
Stephens that got me interested- , that and the fact that to stay legal w
eight wise I will have a problem with the 447 that it was designed with .Yo
ur plan sounds real good I hope it works out great .My firefly is on the ge
ar but naked and a long way from flying , it is in Florida and I am in Ma.
Only get to work on it when I go south in the winter which I dont know if i
can afford this year . I am trying to sell the place I have down there and
rebuild my shop here in Ma. we will see . thanks for the come back- mayb
e someone who has one flying will answer my post and we will all be able to
learn-------Chris
-
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201
I've recently ordered my Firefly from Travis and the mz201 engine and get t
hem both in a few weeks. I'm planning on swinging somewhere around a 60-62"
Tennessee wooden prop - I don't quite know the pitch yet - call Steve at T
N props - (931) 455-4516 for Qs.
The belt reduc is 1.77:1. The prop therefore swings around 2,650 rpm at the
mz201's 4,700 max rpm. I opted for a single ignition magneto version of th
e mz201 (lighter!). A battery will still be needed if I want to take advant
age of the elec start.
-
Phil H. --- On Mon, 11/21/11, william sullivan w
rote:
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 12:08 PM
- Chris- The original Firestar got away with a Rotax 377, so why not?-
And Jack Hart is using one smaller than that- the MZ 34, rated for 30hp.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
------ FS 447
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, chris davis wrote:
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 11:57 AM
Kolbers , Has anyone used an MZ 201 on a Kolb I was thinking about it for a
Firefly as it would be lighter and I need to put hand controls on for my r
udder as i cant use my feet , t,hey claim 69 lbs including electric start ,
reduction, muffler ,a complete-40 hp engine rig that only turns 4700 rpm
? that makes me wonder if I could get enough prop on it to make that thing
fly like a Kolb should?
Chris DavisKXP 503 492 hrs Glider Pilot Disabled from crash building Firefl
y
ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
="http://www.aeroelectric.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.aeroel
ectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
f="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.home
builthelp.com
k>Dralle, List Admin.
ark>Un/Subscription,
more:
k>Dralle, List Admin.
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Renee <ulflygirl(at)mysky.us>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Date: Nov 21, 2011
I must say listening to John's alaska story about ten years ago is
part of what excited me about kolbs.
My personal view though is that a 503 is more than neccessary on
a true firefly. I had a firestar kxp 10 years ago, empty weight about 310 w
ith brs.
With the 377, 35 horse, i still climbed at 700-800 and cruised at 70-75.
Just didnt see the need for a 503, 447 might have been cool for it.
Renee
Bas spellong blaned on ophone :)
On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:37 AM, "John Hauck" wrote:
>
>
>
> Bill I understand all the numbers but real experiance is all I was looking
for ? thanks for the comeback . Chris
>
> PS I was just dreaming about flying a rocket like i remember my KXP
>
>
>
> Chris D/Folks:
>
> If I was going to build and fly a Firefly, I'd put a 503 single carb on it
. The 503 is probably the most reliable Rotax two stroke.
>
> I have flown the FF quite a bit with the 447. It performs about like my o
riginal Firestar with a 447. I wouldn't want anything less than a 447 on a
FS.
>
> Most of us fly for the fun of flying, performance and that mighty Kolb cli
mb. If you under power your airplane, it ain't going to fly for a Kolb.
>
> Some folks fly to say on gas with the very minimum HP they can get by with
to get the Kolb off the ground. If you go light on power, you'll be flying
behind the power curve more than yanking and banking and having a good time
.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
John , because of the dual ignition and the fact that I never had any troub
le with mine the 503 was my choice but "KOLB" told me the airframe would no
t take the vibration of the 503 with out reinforcements- it would shake t
hat ultralight chromemoly apart so I settled on the 447 , then came the wei
ght factor of my "adaptive equipment "and the MZ201 seamed like it might be
the answer 45 HP and 20 lbs less weight. Im considering all possibilities.
-- Chris=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisable
d from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: John Hauck =0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent
: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:37 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kolb-List: Mz 201=0A=0A
=0A-=0ABill I understand all the numbers but real experiance is all I was
looking for ? thanks for the comeback . Chris- =0APS I was just dreaming
about flying a rocket like i remember my KXP=0A-=0AChris D/Folks:=0A-
=0AIf I was going to build and fly a Firefly, I'd put a 503 single carb on
it.- The 503 is probably the most reliable Rotax two stroke.=0A-=0AI ha
ve flown the FF quite a bit with the 447.- It performs about like my orig
inal Firestar with a 447.- I wouldn't want anything less than a 447 on a
FS.=0A-=0AMost of us fly for the fun of flying, performance and that migh
ty Kolb climb.- If you under power your airplane, it ain't going to fly f
or a Kolb.=0A-=0ASome folks fly to say on gas with the very minimum HP th
ey can get by with to get the Kolb off the ground. -If you go light on po
wer, you'll be flying behind the power curve more than yanking and banking
chive Search & Download, 7-Day
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2011
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Agree - my Twinstar had a 503 single carb with a TN wood prop and it climbe
d around 1,500fpm and flew like a scared bat. With two 235 lb.-people, it
still climbed around 800fpm (guessing on that one).
-
Phil H.
--- On Mon, 11/21/11, Renee wrote:
From: Renee <ulflygirl(at)mysky.us>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mz 201
Date: Monday, November 21, 2011, 8:07 PM
I must say listening to John's alaska story about ten years ago is-
part of what excited me about kolbs.
-My personal view though is that a 503 is more than neccessary on
-a true firefly. I had a firestar kxp 10 years ago, empty weight about 31
0 with brs.-
With the 377, 35 horse, i still climbed at 700-800 and cruised at 70-75.-
Just didnt see the need for a 503, 447 might have been cool for it.-
Renee
Bas spellong blaned on ophone :)
On Nov 21, 2011, at 11:37 AM, "John Hauck" wrote:
-
Bill I understand all the numbers but real experiance is all I was looking
for ? thanks for the comeback . Chris-
PS I was just dreaming about flying a rocket like i remember my KXP -Chr
is D/Folks: -If I was going to build and fly a Firefly, I'd put a 503 sin
gle carb on it.- The 503 is probably the most reliable Rotax two stroke.
-I have flown the FF quite a bit with the 447.- It performs about like
my original Firestar with a 447.- I wouldn't want anything less than a 44
7 on a FS. -Most of us fly for the fun of flying, performance and that mi
ghty Kolb climb.- If you under power your airplane, it ain't going to fly
for a Kolb. -Some folks fly to say on gas with the very minimum HP they
can get by with to get the Kolb off the ground. -If you go light on power
, you'll be flying behind the power curve more than yanking and banking and
having a good time. -john hmkIIITitus, Alabama -
=========
http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
=========
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Kolb-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Mz 201
Date: Nov 22, 2011
John,
Although the size of the font is OK your posts are double spaced and
still too wide for the screen.
Everyone else's posts are OK.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Mz 201
Date: Nov 22, 2011
John,
Although the size of the font is OK your posts are
double spaced and still too wide for the screen.
Everyone else's posts are OK.
Pat
Patrick/Kolbers:
Glad I got one thing right, the font.
I am using "plain text", automatic word wrap with
60 space lines.
My email is Outlook 2007, with current updates.
Other than that, I have checked all my "stuff" and