Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ma
December 26, 2011 - January 18, 2012
>
> I also just found the Fuji line of Mini-Mite 3-stage and 4-stage
> systems (see http://hvlp.net/ and http://hvlpsales.com/). Isn't it
> funny how you shell out a few thousand for the covering kit and paint,
> and then try to get cheap when it comes to buying the equipment to
> apply it?
> Phil
>
> --- On *Mon, 12/26/11, David Kulp //* wrote:
>
>
> From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Paint sprayer recommendations?
> To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
> Date: Monday, December 26, 2011, 3:24 PM
>
> Phil,
> Be sure to consider the type that has the paint canister on top.
> My next one will, for sure.
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
> FireFly11DMK
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 26, 2011, at 12:24 PM, Phil <http://us.mc1608.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=phactor9@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint sprayer recommendations? |
I have a low end Graco unit that came from Aircraft Spruce probably 20
years ago. Still works great. Have shot everything from Imron and
Awlgrip to staged car paint and clearcoat to water based latex paint
over the years. I=99ve always used the conventional underslung
quart paint container. Recollection is it works fine either pressure or
suction depending on viscosity. Get a good long hose to get more cool
down and lots of clearance from the explosive environment. With
urethanes I use a poor mans pressure breather.....kitchen exhaust fan
with 50 feet of pool vac hose plumbed to a cheap face mask. Again lots
of clearance from the spray environment to the air intake. I
don=99t understand the sales pitches for more expensive 2 and 3
stage units....Inside the HVLP box there is a very standard Lamb/Ametek
house central vacuum motor/ fan at least on the two units I have looked
at. Single stage should work just fine with a moderate length of
hose...
Bob
From: Phil
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 10:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Paint sprayer recommendations?
I'm in the market for a paint sprayer. I'm leaning toward a
low-end HVLP, hopefully not exceeding $300-ish. Lowe's has three models;
HV1900USG, HV2900USG and HV3900USG ($90 to $150). Sears has a couple
(Campbell Hausfeld HV2002 -$200 and HV2500 - $300). Then there's Harbor
Freight ($100).
So, what experiences does everyone have?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00988586000P?prdNo=1
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=326055-89183-HV3900USG
http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677
.html
Phil H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Hi everyone --
Are there any Kolbers in Key West FL? Anywhere else in the Keys?
Russ K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Paint sprayer recommendations? |
Phil
I used a $50 Lowes Kobalt "Latex Spray Gun" to spray Behr and Sherwin Williams
latex on my Pietenpol and Titan Tornado with good results. Check out the links
below for pictures and descriptions :
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Tornado.htm
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 12:24:47 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Paint sprayer recommendations?
I'm in the market for a paint sprayer. I'm leaning toward a low-end HVLP, hopefully
not exceeding $300-ish. Lowe's has three models; HV1900USG, HV2900USG and
HV3900USG ($90 to $150). Sears has a couple (Campbell Hausfeld HV2002 -$200 and
HV2500 - $300). Then there's Harbor Freight ($100).
So, what experiences does everyone have?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00988586000P?prdNo=1
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=326055-89183-HV3900USG
http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html
Phil H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/26/11 |
Phil, after spraying all of the poli-stits coatings on the fabric surfaces of my
MKIIIX I definitely can say I prefer the gravity feed type (canister on top
of the gun) spray gun that I used. I used a regular 5hp compressor with 25
gal tank. What I do recommend renting or buying a "fresh air machine" with
mask to protect your lungs and brain from over spray. Since you are in Hixson
you may want to check with Stewart Pruitt about the process he is going to use
on the Taylor Craft he will be covering in a year or so.
Never having done any fabric work, I was amazed at how easy the Stits process is
to use. Any fabric work is time consuming( and a little tedious) but even
an amateur can get a decent job if he follows instructions... speaking of my
own self of course. I am satisfied that my fabric parts (wings, control surfaces,
etc) are all complete and ready to install. I only lack a little fabric/coatings
work on the fuselage cage to be finished with fabric work. Phil, I believe
you have more experience with this process than I did.
I am looking forward to taking the cage and GPAS VW engine to London, KY and KOLB
this next week so they can help me design and build an exhaust system. We
are hoping to come up with something with Steve Bennett's input that can be a
standard system for Kolbers that want to use the VW conversion with re-drive.
Hope all of you on the list had a Merry Christmas and will have a great New Year.
Bob Green
MKIIIX project
GPAS VW w/re-drive
N830PB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working on
the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box stores
and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for either
wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous about
drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping something.
So any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic
tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
called a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to
make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody
invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built
but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly
and covering will have to wait till spring. I hope to be flying by early summer
and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in July. Hope to get a ride from
CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will
tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few
seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a
backup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to make
future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments directly into
the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after the nose is on
the airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would be
when flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is like the
Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine how
frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach a
switch in an emergency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
> working on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the
> big box stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They
> seem geared for either wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience
> at all and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without
> cracking or badly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand
> names would be appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would
> be good for fiberglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no
> experience with that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H
> brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as
> the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better
> way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live
> in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and
> covering will have to wait till spring. I hop!
> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in
> July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint sprayer recommendations? |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
I used a low priced Graco copy sprayer to spray my plane it cost me
something like $30. The low pressure high volume sprayers use less paint
but you will never save enough paint on one plane to recoup the cost of a
high priced sprayer.
My advice is learn then practice. There is an art to a good finish
and color. I'm not a great painter but I have learned a few things not to
do. Find out what the best under coat to paint for the color you want.
Trust me trying to get red to look red over the silver coat just doesn't
work well. Spray in cooler temps. When it is cool the paint will flow
together before it drys to give you a smooth finish. You can use a retarder
in warm weather but it is a trial and error process.
Enjoy
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 8:56 PM, wrote:
> Phil
>
> I used a $50 Lowes Kobalt "Latex Spray Gun" to spray Behr and Sherwin
> Williams latex on my Pietenpol and Titan Tornado with good results. Check
> out the links below for pictures and descriptions:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Tornado.htm
>
> Malcolm Morrison
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Phil" <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
> *To: *kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent: *Monday, December 26, 2011 12:24:47 PM
>
> *Subject: *Kolb-List: Paint sprayer recommendations?
>
> I'm in the market for a paint sprayer. I'm leaning toward a low-end HVLP,
> hopefully not exceeding $300-ish. Lowe's has three models; HV1900USG,
> HV2900USG and HV3900USG ($90 to $150). Sears has a couple (Campbell
> Hausfeld HV2002 -$200 and HV2500 - $300). Then there's Harbor Freight
> ($100).
>
> So, what experiences does everyone have?
>
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00988586000P?prdNo=1
> http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=326055-89183-HV3900USG
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html
>
> Phil H.
>
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Gregg,
Here's a few of my thoughts regarding panels holes. (others may have different
opinions/experiences)
If you want to go the "Cadillac' route...and you know exactly the instruments
you are going to use,
you could find an outfit that would water-jet cut your panel. You could lay it
out, and they'll do the rest.
This is likely to be the easiest (on you) and nicest looking.
The round holesaws wobble a hellava lot. They're not exactly made for precision
circle cuts. Will they work?
Barely, providing you don't screw everything up. You have to clamp the panel down
VERY securely.
The flycutters "can" do a fairly respectable job of cutting holes, but you REALLY
have to get a high-quality
flycutter. I have one of those Harbour Freight pieces of crap. It hard to believe
someone could make something so
worthless. I think I justy threw it away the last time I tried using it.
Same story for the holesaws. The chinese ones are crap, crap, crap!!! If you
spend the money on some decent
Milwauckee or some USA made company ones, you have a better chance of doing an
ok job.
For making your own panel holes, the "best" way is to call Aircraft Spruce, or
other a/c parts houses. They sell
instrument panel hole punches. These are the ones where you tighten a bolt and
the inner disc cuts out a precise
hole. This is the best method if you insist on doing it yourself.
Mike Welch
On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working on
the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box stores
and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for either
wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous
about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping something.
So any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic
tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
called a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need
to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody
invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are
built but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly
and covering will have to wait till spring. I hop!
> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in July.
Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat
piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best
way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here would be
helpful.
--------
Gregg Kaat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i found a piece of 1/4 in thick alum bar about 15 inch long. at 1/2
inch spacing i drilled 1/8 in holes in a perfect line the end holes
were 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch. the 1/2 and 3/8 inch holes were for
mounting the h sections in the wing and boom tube, by installing the
h section bolt, through the pattern, and h section, i could predrill
all the holes in the steel h section. then when the h section was
installed and the 1/2 inch hole located and drilled in the spar,, i
mounted the template on the side of the spar, and held in place with
the bolt, i could line up and drill the spar through the jig., after
getting one rivit at the far end drilled and held in place with a cleko,
the rest drilled very easy and fast.
i hope it is as clear to you as it was to me.
boyd young
ps the 1/2 and 3/8 inch holes may have been 3/4 inch from the first 1/8
inch hole.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I also have this task to look forward to; cutting large holes in Lexan. Som
e are suggesting a router with a very small diameter bit, following a circu
lar jig.
A large hole-saw seems appropriate to me; but some are suggesting you start
in reverse to score the surface before drilling forward. Apply masking tap
e firmly to the cut-line. I would think you'd need to drill slowly so's not
to risk raising the temperature.
Another idea that seems feasible to me; firmly clamp the fiberglass/lexan i
n between two clean pieces of scrap plywood (not "plain" wood) and drill al
l three layers together. You probably wouldn't need to start in reverse in
that case.
Phil H.
FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Richard Girard wrote:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 1:25 PM
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will te
ar the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few
seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a ba
ckup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to make fu
ture maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments directly into th
e fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after the nose is on t
he airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would be whe
n flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is like the Fir
estar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine how frustrating,
and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach a switch in an emer
gency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working
on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
-stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem ge
ared for either wood or metal. -I don't have fiberglass experience at all
and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or b
adly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand names would b
e appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fi
berglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no experience wi
th that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well
. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan suggests
the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here wou
ld be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Winte
r is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering will have to
wait till spring. I hop!
-e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh i
n July. -Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. -Happy Holidays
to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- - Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Gregg,
Consider clamping plywood on the front and back of your fiberglass panel
blank when you cut holes. That minimizes surface tearing.
I second Rick's suggestion about a removable panel. They are common on
sailplanes. Maintenance is easier and the instruments don't take a
beating from riding in the trailer in the plane. The quick disconnect
uses O-rings and works well. An electric plug or two, a BNC connector
and the panel will pop in and out easily. Glider suppliers carry
everything you need to build a panel.
Cumulus-Soaring,com is one supplier. Wingsandwheels.com is another.
Peter
Tubing connectors
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter.htm#Tubing,_Connectors,_and_Miscell
aneous
5-way tubing quick disconnect
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter/connector-QD-2.jpg
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it
will tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every
few seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C)
use a backup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to
make future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments
directly into the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on
after the nose is on the airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would
be when flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is
like the Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine
how frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach
a switch in an emergency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot
wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
working on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at
the big box stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side.
They seem geared for either wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass
experience at all and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel
without cracking or badly chipping something. So any help here with
types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic tells me a finer
tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something called
a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to make
a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has
somebody invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings
and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing
herself so my assembly and covering will have to wait till spring. I
hop!
e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at
Oshkosh in July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy
Holidays to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
- I used a hand held cheap Black and Decker jigsaw with a hack saw blade
to cut mine.- I backed it up with plywood on the bottom.- The blade gua
rd held the top.- Worked great.- I drilled a starting hole away from th
e cutting area, and sawed into it.
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- FS 447
-------------------------
-------------------------
-
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Phil wrote:
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 2:32 PM
I also have this task to look forward to; cutting large holes in Lexan. Som
e are suggesting a router with a very small diameter bit, following a circu
lar jig.=0A
A large hole-saw seems appropriate to me; but some are suggesting you start
in reverse to score the surface before drilling forward. Apply masking tap
e firmly to the cut-line. I would think you'd need to drill slowly so's not
to risk raising the temperature.=0A
Another idea that seems feasible to me; firmly clamp the fiberglass/lexan i
n between two clean pieces of scrap plywood (not "plain" wood) and drill al
l three layers together. You probably wouldn't need to start in reverse in
that case.=0A
Phil H.
FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Richard Girard wrote:
=0A
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 1:25 PM
=0AI wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will
tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.=0AHole saws work fine as long as
you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few seconds to allow the teeth to
clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a backup block to support the pane
l as you cut.=0AOne thing you might wish to consider is making a removable
panel to make future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments
directly into the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after
the nose is on the airplane.=0AAlso, spend some time sitting in your plane
strapped in as you would be when flying and see if you can reach the panel.
If the Firefly is like the Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuc
kling. Imagine how frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstr
ap to reach a switch in an emergency.=0A
=0ARick Girard
=0AOn Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working
on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
-stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem ge
ared for either wood or metal. -I don't have fiberglass experience at all
and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or b
adly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand names would b
e appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fi
berglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no experience wi
th=0A that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as w
ell. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan sugges
ts the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here
would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Wi
nter is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering will have to wa
it till spring. I hop!
-e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh i
n July. -Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. -Happy Holidays
to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com"=0A target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
--
=0AZulu Delta=0AMk IIIC=0AThanks, Homer GBYM=0A
=0AIt isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhap
py.
- - Groucho Marx=0A
=0A=0Aollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com=0A/" rel=nofollow target
=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com=0Aofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp
.com=0Allow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=nofo
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List=0Aet=_b
lank>http://forums.matronics.com=0Allow target=_blank>http://www.matronic
======0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mike, I
had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think you have
confirmed that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will look into that
for sure. I don't have the instruments in my possesion yet so I don't know how
much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on an imperfect cut if I
do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever reason but that would play
into a decision as well. I like the removable panel idea but am concerned about
the added weight. The firefly already approaches the weight limit of part
103 and I'm trying to stay within limits if possible. Are the detachable panels
typically made of aluminum or wood? I already know that I can't reach the
panel when seated so what I have in mind is similar to what degbot has. A grand
rapids EIS and separate Alt, Aspd and compass in the panel. Switches mounted
elsewhere. I'm a lightweight at 145 pounds so I'm expecting to have to have
additional seat cushions to move me forward to get into the CG envelope. Good
to hear from you again Phil. I know that you were thinking of going without
a nosecone. How are you mounting your instruments? Also thanks to boyd for
the H brace info.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I'm not sure how I'll mount mine - perhaps a podium mount in front of the s
tick. I only have a dual CHT, dual EGT, TinyTach and a cheap Halls windmete
r to figure out. My Garmin eTrex will Velcro to my leg for Alt and compass.
A nose and windshield might be in my future, eventually.
-
Phil H.
2011 FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, t41pilot wrote:
From: t41pilot <t41pilot(at)frontier.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly Instrument panel
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 3:57 PM
Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mike
, I had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think y
ou have confirmed- that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will lo
ok into that for sure.- I don't have the instruments in my possesion yet
so I don't know how much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on an
imperfect cut if I do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever re
ason but that would play into a decision as well.- I like the removable p
anel idea but am concerned about the added weight.- The firefly already a
pproaches the weight limit of part 103 and I'm trying to stay within limits
if possible.- Are the detachable panels typically made of aluminum or wo
od? I already know that I can't reach the panel when seated so what I have
in mind is similar to what degbot has.- A grand rapids EIS and separate A
lt, Aspd and compass in the panel.- Switches mounted elsewhere.- I'm a
lightweight at 145 pounds so I!
'm expecting to have to have additional seat cushions to move me forward to
get into the CG envelope.- Good to hear from you again Phil.- I know t
hat you were thinking of going without a nosecone. How are you mounting you
r instruments? Also thanks to boyd for the H brace info.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SuperJETT <superjett(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I'm new to the list (been lurking a while) but I do have a lot of
fiberglass experience. If you have steady hands a Dremel/etc with a
good spiral cut bit can cut accurately/smoothly. Start slightly
smaller than needed then slowly enlarge to your scribe mark. It works
great on fiberglass, carbon fiber, and even carbon/kevlar though that
will dull and the kevlar frays very finely.
All of the other suggestions are good too, especially the hole punch
which I've used also.
Darin
>>
>> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
>> working on
> the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
> stores
> and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for
> either
> wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous
> about
> drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping
> something. So
> any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic tells
> me
> a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
> called
> a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to make a
> drill
> jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some
> predrilled
> holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody invented a
> better
> way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live
> in
> Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering
> will
> have to wait till spring. I h!
> op!
>> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in
> July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>>
>> --------
>> Gregg Kaat
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
Thanks for the tip Superjett. I do have a Dremel tool and have a steady hand when
I haven't hit the coffee too hard. This idea is also cost effective as well
and doesn't limit the hole to a circle. I thought of using my oscillating tool
for the rectangle needed to mount the Grand Rapids EIS but this sounds better.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361801#361801
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Looks like a great motor is being designed |
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com> |
>*Also I see something **called a flycutter but have no experience with
that either.*<
A flycutter works really well on fiberglass, plastic, or even .016
aluminum, if used by hand. Just drill the center hole, then work the
flycutter by hand, scoring all round in overlapping sections. Very
controllable and safe. Just keep working around deeper and deeper.
Cleanest result is if you can do the last cuts from the backside.
Done it many times.
JG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looks like a great motor is being designed |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Ron, Sounds great until you get to this;
Transmission
Motus 6-speed sequential gearbox; unit construction; wet multiplate clutch
You either have to cart around a bunch of gears you don't need or cut up
the block and do a lot of welding and machining on a new engine.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>
> http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
>
> I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Deckard" <flypoker(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looks like a great motor is being designed |
I think the transmission is a bolt on, meaning a reduction unit could be
bolted to it.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Looks like a great motor is being designed
Ron, Sounds great until you get to this;
Transmission
Motus 6-speed sequential gearbox; unit construction; wet multiplate
clutch
You either have to cart around a bunch of gears you don't need or cut
up the block and do a lot of welding and machining on a new engine.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Ron @ KFHU
wrote:
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looks like a great motor is being designed |
- Two other things.- I don't see a weight on it, and isn't that too muc
h HP?
-------------------------
-------------------------
Bill Sullivan
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Richard Girard wrote:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Looks like a great motor is being designed
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 10:14 AM
Ron, Sounds great until you get to this;
Transmission
=0AMotus 6-speed sequential gearbox; unit construction; wet multiplate clut
ch-=0A
You either have to cart around a bunch of gears you don't need or cut up th
e block and do a lot of welding and machining on a new engine.
Rick Girard
=0AOn Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Ron @ KFHU wro
te:
>
=0A
=0Ahttp://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
=0A
=0AI guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
=0A
=0A==========
=0A="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
=0Aooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
=0Aet="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0Ale, List Admin.
=0A==========
=0Aarget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
=0A==========
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com
=0A==========
=0Ale, List Admin.
=0A="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A==========
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
--
Zulu DeltaMk IIICThanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
=0A- - Groucho Marx
=========================0A
=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Mark IIIXtra |
Done.
john
From: Clay Stuart [mailto:tcstuart(at)roadrunner.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 12:35 PM
Subject: Mark IIIXtra
John,
Can you forward this to the Kolb chat line? Thanks. This
is one of the earlier kits that had separate flaps and
ailerons.
Subject: Mark IIIXtra
I purchased the kits for this plane in Oct 2000 and March
2001. Invoices 2432 and 3267 (total $11783). I have
assembled the kit and the next step is fabric and engine. I
have dual custom-made aluminum tanks (pressure tested)
approximately 7 gallons each. I have seats installed and
the interior carpeted. I have not worked on this project in
over 7 years since the Labhart fatality. I would like to
know if there is a market for this plane other than
advertising on Barnstormers?
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
Danville KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looks like a great motor is being designed |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Jerry, Unit construction is the motorcycle term for transmission and engine
cases are one and the same.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Jerry Deckard wrote:
> **
> I think the transmission is a bolt on, meaning a reduction unit could be
> bolted to it.
> Jerry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Looks like a great motor is being designed
>
> Ron, Sounds great until you get to this;
>
> Transmission
> Motus 6-speed sequential gearbox; unit construction; wet multiplate clutch
>
>
> You either have to cart around a bunch of gears you don't need or cut up
> the block and do a lot of welding and machining on a new engine.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
>>
>> I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looks like a great motor is being designed |
Is there a big downside, or for that matter any downside to taking the gears out
and rigging something directly to the drive shaft?
Never had the chance to look into a Honda or BMW so I really have no idea what
it looks like in there. It does look compact.
If that case sans the gears is only a couple of extra pounds it may be doable
emphasis on maybe.
All of this is theoretical, and the way they are talking about their motor and
bike it may not be less expensive than many purpose built av-motors.
I don't know why someone after going to the trouble of designing a motor and all
of that cannot conceive that the motor itself may be more valuable than the
bike. DOD drones and all sorts of stuff like that comes to mind.
---- Richard Girard wrote:
============
Jerry, Unit construction is the motorcycle term for transmission and engine
cases are one and the same.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Jerry Deckard wrote:
> **
> I think the transmission is a bolt on, meaning a reduction unit could be
> bolted to it.
> Jerry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Looks like a great motor is being designed
>
> Ron, Sounds great until you get to this;
>
> Transmission
> Motus 6-speed sequential gearbox; unit construction; wet multiplate clutch
>
>
> You either have to cart around a bunch of gears you don't need or cut up
> the block and do a lot of welding and machining on a new engine.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
>>
>> I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
| From: | "AtomicDog" <MStudio828(at)aol.com> |
If you are planning to mount a Rotax 503 on your project you should purchase soon.
Speaking of great engines, this is one. However Rotax will not be manufacturing
any new 503's. Something about worn out molds or something.
Larry
Building Firestar II
--------
Building Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361879#361879
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Deckard" <flypoker(at)windstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
This has been on the Challenger list for sometime. They quit making them
about a year ago or so. The posts on the challenger list says that the
supply of new ones is gone.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "AtomicDog" <MStudio828(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:58 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of the 503 ??
>
> If you are planning to mount a Rotax 503 on your project you should
> purchase soon.
> Speaking of great engines, this is one. However Rotax will not be
> manufacturing any new 503's. Something about worn out molds or something.
>
> Larry
> Building Firestar II
>
> --------
> Building Firestar II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361879#361879
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
I think a Bud of mine got one of the last 447's in middle months of
2010...? Herb
At 11:58 PM 12/28/2011, you wrote:
>
>If you are planning to mount a Rotax 503 on your project you should
>purchase soon.
>Speaking of great engines, this is one. However Rotax will not be
>manufacturing any new 503's. Something about worn out molds or something.
>
>Larry
>Building Firestar II
>
>--------
>Building Firestar II
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361879#361879
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
Hello Kolb Gang:
I am going next week to the Kolb Factory to see about getting an exhaust sy
stem made up for my 80- 100hp, 2180 c.c. VW, air-cooled, re-drive conversio
n engine from Great Plains Aviation Supply. My MKIIIX cage already has th
e engine mount change necessary for this engine and I am hoping that we can
come up with something in the way of an exhaust system that will facilitat
e others using this great engine. I will keep you posted. Thanks Rick
N. for pioneering this idea.
May you all have a blessed and happy New Year.
Bob Green
MKIIIX project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
Just emailed and got this response...Herb
From: "info" <info@leadingedge-airfoils.com>
Subject: Re: 503 and 447 engines
Herb,
I am sorry but we don't have any of these engines. And from what I
have heard there are no more new 447 or 503 available. We have in
stock at this time is the Rotax 582 engine. If you are looking
specifically for the 447 or 503 you may have to search for a used low
hours engine. If that is the case I would try barnstormers or ebay.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you
Lynda Schlitz
Customer Service
At 05:56 AM 12/29/2011, you wrote:
>
>This has been on the Challenger list for sometime. They quit making
>them about a year ago or so. The posts on the challenger list says
>that the supply of new ones is gone.
>Jerry
>----- Original Message ----- From: "AtomicDog" <MStudio828(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:58 PM
>Subject: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of the 503 ??
>
>
>>
>>If you are planning to mount a Rotax 503 on your project you should
>>purchase soon.
>>Speaking of great engines, this is one. However Rotax will not be
>>manufacturing any new 503's. Something about worn out molds or something.
>>
>>Larry
>>Building Firestar II
>>
>>--------
>>Building Firestar II
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361879#361879
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
- Travis- is the Kolb factory shopping around for smaller, compatible eng
ines for the Firefly and Firestar?- Anything look interesting from the fa
ctory's standpoint?
-------------------------
---------------------- Bill Sul
livan
--- On Thu, 12/29/11, Herb Gayheart wrote:
From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of the 503 ??
Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 9:59 AM
Just emailed and got this response...Herb
From: "info" <info@leadingedge-airfoils.com>
Subject: Re: 503 and 447 engines
Herb,
I am sorry but we don't have any of these engines. And from what I
have heard there are no more new 447 or 503 available. We have in
stock at this time is the Rotax 582 engine. If you are looking
specifically for the 447 or 503 you may have to search for a used low
hours engine. If that is the case I would try barnstormers or ebay.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you
Lynda Schlitz
Customer Service
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Bob, My neighbor has been running Vdubs in both his airplanes for over 20
years. The best exhaust system he says is straight pipes made from chrome
plated sink drains. They're pre-bent and pre-flaired and just the right
diameter. All you have to add is the mount plates salvaged from a scrap
exhaust (Dick Geide is a true homebuilder). Honest, I'm not kidding. The
whole exhaust system costs less than $30.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bob Green wrote:
> Hello Kolb Gang:
> I am going next week to the Kolb Factory to see about getting an exhaust
> system made up for my 80- 100hp, 2180 c.c. VW, air-cooled, re-drive
> conversion engine from Great Plains Aviation Supply. My MKIIIX cage
> already has the engine mount change necessary for this engine and I am
> hoping that we can come up with something in the way of an exhaust system
> that will facilitate others using this great engine. I will keep you
> posted. Thanks Rick N. for pioneering this idea.
>
> May you all have a blessed and happy New Year.
> Bob Green
> MKIIIX project
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
Not saying that I know anything...but last time I was at the factory;
Travis asked me if I knew where they could get some really big rubber
bands!! :-) Herb
At 09:15 AM 12/29/2011, you wrote:
> Travis- is the Kolb factory shopping around for smaller,
> compatible engines for the Firefly and Firestar? Anything look
> interesting from the factory's standpoint?
>
> Bill Sullivan
>
>--- On Thu, 12/29/11, Herb Gayheart wrote:
>
>From: Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of the 503 ??
>To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 9:59 AM
>
>
>Just emailed and got this response...Herb
>
>From: "info" <info@leadingedge-airfoils.com>
>To: "Herb Gayheart"
>Subject: Re: 503 and 447 engines
>
>Herb,
>
>I am sorry but we don't have any of these engines. And from what I
>have heard there are no more new 447 or 503 available. We have in
>stock at this time is the Rotax 582 engine. If you are looking
>specifically for the 447 or 503 you may have to search for a used low
>hours engine. If that is the case I would try barnstormers or ebay.
>Please let me know if you have any other questions.
>
>Thank you
>Lynda Schlitz
>Customer Service
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Rats! Hit the send button instead of the enter button. The photo is of the
Geide Hawk. His Headwind has the sink drain exhaust. When the tubes burn
out on the Hawk he says he'll replace them with the drain tubes.
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Bob, My neighbor has been running Vdubs in both his airplanes for over 20
> years. The best exhaust system he says is straight pipes made from chrome
> plated sink drains. They're pre-bent and pre-flaired and just the right
> diameter. All you have to add is the mount plates salvaged from a scrap
> exhaust (Dick Geide is a true homebuilder). Honest, I'm not kidding. The
> whole exhaust system costs less than $30.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Bob Green wrote:
>
>> Hello Kolb Gang:
>> I am going next week to the Kolb Factory to see about getting an exhaust
>> system made up for my 80- 100hp, 2180 c.c. VW, air-cooled, re-drive
>> conversion engine from Great Plains Aviation Supply. My MKIIIX cage
>> already has the engine mount change necessary for this engine and I am
>> hoping that we can come up with something in the way of an exhaust system
>> that will facilitate others using this great engine. I will keep you
>> posted. Thanks Rick N. for pioneering this idea.
>>
>> May you all have a blessed and happy New Year.
>> Bob Green
>> MKIIIX project
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I lived in Key West for 13 years. The skies are busy with private jets, airlines,
and military planes out at the naval air station. There have been Quicksilver
two seaters on floats used to give tourists rides around the island out at
Sigsbee. The nearest airport back up the keys where there will be some ultralight
activity would be Sugarloaf Key.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361905#361905
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
Bob
Looks great. Seems like the exhaust was one of the few remaining off the
shelf parts necessary to have a complete engine package. I installed the
stock VW joint, between the J tube/heat exchanger and the rest of in my
exhaust because I felt VW must know something. No exhaust pipe cracking so
far.
I did talk to the guys at Lord Mounts when I was at Oshkosh last summer and
they think there are softer engine mount bushings available. This would be
a really good thing to reduce cockpit noise and better isolate engine
vibrations. The wide spacing of the mounting bushings should keep the
engine from twisting in the mount even with considerably softer bushings.
They gave me a name and phone number but I haven't followed up on it and
that information isn't available to me till late spring.
I like the cooling scoops. I had forgotten that you had made doors to
access the spark plugs, that's a nice touch.
Remember watch you temps on the ground. The engine will over heat quickly
when you don't have air flow through the cooling system like you do in the
air.
Rick Neilsen
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Bob Green wrote:
> Hello Kolb Gang:
> I am going next week to the Kolb Factory to see about getting an exhaust
> system made up for my 80- 100hp, 2180 c.c. VW, air-cooled, re-drive
> conversion engine from Great Plains Aviation Supply. My MKIIIX cage
> already has the engine mount change necessary for this engine and I am
> hoping that we can come up with something in the way of an exhaust system
> that will facilitate others using this great engine. I will keep you
> posted. Thanks Rick N. for pioneering this idea.
>
> May you all have a blessed and happy New Year.
> Bob Green
> MKIIIX project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/24/11 |
> i think a bird should be able to get out of the way
I was riding my bike waaaay out in the countryside, on a canal bank. I saw a
flock/skien/herd/muster of geese flying past about 2-300 feet altitude.
Suddenly the entire group of geese peeled off and dove for low altitude. A
Piper Cub came lumbering along about 500 feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
Rick and the rest of us Kolbers,- I have been thinking about VWs and I wa
s wondering- Why did Vw stop making the horiz, opposed engine does any on
e know? It was getting 25 mpg 40 years ago when the American car were getti
ng 6to 9 mpg. just imagine what kind of mileage they could be getting with
today's tech. ?excuse me for being curious. Chris.=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKX
P 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.c
om>=0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:0
5 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11=0A
=0A=0ABob =0A=0ALooks great. Seems like the-exhaust-was one of the few
remaining off the shelf parts necessary to have a complete engine package.
I installed the stock VW joint, between the J tube/heat-exchanger-and t
he rest of in my exhaust because I felt VW must know something. No-exhaus
t-pipe cracking so far.=0A=0AI did talk to the guys at Lord Mounts when I
was at Oshkosh last summer and they think there are softer engine mount bu
shings available. This would be a really good thing to reduce cockpit noise
and better isolate engine vibrations. The wide spacing of the mounting bus
hings should keep the engine from twisting in the mount even with-conside
rably-softer bushings. They gave me a name and phone number but I haven't
followed up on it and that information isn't available to me till late spr
ing.=0A=0AI like the cooling scoops. I had-forgotten-that you had made
doors to access the spark plugs, that's a nice touch.=0A=0ARemember watch y
ou temps on the ground. The engine will over heat quickly when you don't ha
ve air flow through the cooling system like you do in the air. -=0A=0ARic
k Neilsen=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Bob Green wrote:=0A=0AHello Kolb Gang:=0A>I am going next week to the Kolb Factor
y to see about getting an exhaust system made up for my 80- 100hp, 2180 c.c
. VW, air-cooled, re-drive conversion engine from Great Plains Aviation Sup
ply. -My -MKIIIX cage already has the engine mount change necessary for
this engine and I am hoping that we can come up with something in the way
of an exhaust system that will facilitate others using -this great engine
. - I will keep you posted. - -Thanks Rick N. for pioneering this ide
a.=0A>=0A>May you all have a blessed and happy New Year.=0A>Bob Green=0A>MK
========================
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
That is a SAD storey I cant believe they would stop production of the most
reliable 2 stroke in the world ! it makes the MZ 291--202 more interesting
hope they come close in reliability !=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs
=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: Jerry Deckard <flypoker(at)windstream.net>=0ATo:
kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:56 AM=0ASubj
ect: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of the 503 ??=0A=0A--> Kolb-List
message posted by: "Jerry Deckard" =0A=0AThis has
been on the Challenger list for sometime. They quit making them =0Aabout a
year ago or so. The posts on the challenger list says that the =0Asupply of
new ones is gone.=0AJerry=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "AtomicD
og" =0ATo: =0ASent: Wednesday,
December 28, 2011 11:58 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Rotax ends production of
28(at)aol.com>=0A>=0A> If you are planning to mount a Rotax 503 on your projec
t you should =0A> purchase soon.=0A> Speaking of great engines, this is one
. However Rotax will not be =0A> manufacturing any new 503's. Something abo
ut worn out molds or something.=0A>=0A> Larry=0A> Building Firestar II=0A>
=0A> --------=0A> Building Firestar II=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic
online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361879#3
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
At 05:35 PM 12/29/2011, chris davis wrote:
>Rick and the rest of us Kolbers, I have been thinking about VWs and I was
>wondering Why did Vw stop making the horiz, opposed engine does any one
>know? It was getting 25 mpg 40 years ago when the American car were
>getting 6to 9 mpg. just imagine what kind of mileage they could be getting
>with today's tech. ?excuse me for being curious. Chris.
VW beetles got better gas mileage than the American monsters of the day
because the cars weighed so much less, not because the engine was anything
special. However, the simplicity of the air cooled 1940 era technology
made it cheap to produce and simple to maintain, which is why they used it.
Today's engines are far more efficient (in fuel efficiency, emissions, and
power to weight ratio), but the tight tolerances necessary to achieve that
efficiency means water cooling is a must... losting most of the advantages
of the flat-four layout. Today only Subaru, as far as I know, uses this
layout (though water cooled) and despite their popularity in aircraft,
their cars aren't particularly more efficient than others, and they have a
reputation for being a pain in the butt and expensive to work on.
-Dana
--
When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department
usually uses water.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
| From: | "Rick Lewis" <cktman(at)hughes.net> |
I have been meaning to go to the factory also for the same reason. Please, please
have them design an exhaust that stays low and out. We don't need anything
higher than the engine. I have already designed my own exhaust but if they
make one available that leaves the cylinders and goes down, I will buy it.
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361947#361947
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
Dana ,sounds logical- VWs got better mileage because they were lighter bu
t a VW bus camper full of camping gear and 4 hippies-still got 20 to 25 M
pg and was that lighter than a Ford falcon getting 10 to 12 mpg Im not sure
that ads up but we are talking about Kolbs and my original wish was that V
W- was still building millions of air cooled engines-. If they were wit
h todays tech and their design genius what a supply of reliable engines we
would have!=0AChris=0A-=0A-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pi
lot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matroni
cs.com =0ASent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 6:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-Lis
t: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11=0A=0A=0AAt 05:35 PM 12/29/2011,
chris davis wrote:=0A=0ARick and the rest of us Kolbers,- I have been th
inking about VWs and I was wondering- Why did Vw stop making the horiz, o
pposed engine does any one know? It was getting 25 mpg 40 years ago when th
e American car were getting 6to 9 mpg. just imagine what kind of mileage th
ey could be getting with today's tech. ?excuse me for being curious. Chris.
=0AVW beetles got better gas mileage than the American monsters of the day
because the cars weighed so much less, not because the engine was anything
special.- However, the simplicity of the air cooled 1940 era technology m
ade it cheap to produce and simple to maintain, which is why they used it.
=0A=0AToday's engines are far more efficient (in fuel efficiency, emissions
, and power to weight ratio), but the tight tolerances necessary to achieve
that efficiency means water cooling is a must... losting most of the advan
tages of the flat-four layout.- Today only Subaru, as far as I know, uses
this layout (though water cooled) and despite their popularity in aircraft
, their cars aren't particularly more efficient than others, and they have
a reputation for being a pain in the butt and expensive to work on.=0A=0A-D
ana=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AWhen tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the
========================
========================
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
At 09:36 PM 12/29/2011, chris davis wrote:
>Dana ,sounds logical VWs got better mileage because they were lighter but
>a VW bus camper full of camping gear and 4 hippies still got 20 to 25 Mpg
>and was that lighter than a Ford falcon getting 10 to 12 mpg Im not sure
>that ads up but we are talking about Kolbs and my original wish was that
>VW was still building millions of air cooled engines . If they were with
>todays tech and their design genius what a supply of reliable engines we
>would have!
I think with all the aftermarket parts available there's still no problem
building up a brand new VW engine.
-Dana
--
Q. What's the difference between Mechanical and Civil
Engineers?
A. Mechanical Engineers build weapons; Civil
Engineers build targets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAquaNut(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
List,
For What its worth, I bought a new 447 from leaf in September and
they had several more. Has anyone checked with them?
Ed Diebel ( FF 62)
In a message dated 12/29/2011 7:59:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
herbgh(at)nctc.com writes:
I think a Bud of mine got one of the last 447's in middle months of
2010...? Herb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Completely non Kolb, but I can't resist.
Having owned 6 Econoline vans, 1 Econoline pickup (all seven of the 61 to
67 vintage), 1 Mercury Comet, two Falcons, one Beetle, three VW vans, and a
Thing, I'm not sure where Chris gets his 10 to 12 mpg figures.
61 Econoline with 144 ci six. 25 mpg on the highway despite 60 series fat
tires at all four corners.
62 E with 170 six 18 mpg, but I never could find a decent carb for it.
63 E with 221 V8 18 mpg when the spark plug wires weren't inducting into
the dog house. Great fireworks show.
63 E with 170 six 20 to 22 mpg. Dead stock school bus, bought it right
after high school in '69.
65 E with 170 six 18 mpg another automatic
66 E with 240 six 16 mpg even though the engine was worn out.
67 E pickup with 170 six 18 mpg with almost 300K on the engine. Gave it to
my son when I moved back to Kansas
62 Mercury Comet 18 mpg with a Ford o matic
63 Falcon with 144 six, bought it for the ex as part of the divorce. She
did nothing but bitch about it
65 Falcon two door wagon with 170 six, bought it to put a 289 in it. I just
drove it home with the 170, sold project.
62 VW bug w 1200 40 horse 28 to 30 on the road w 1500 bus engine (early H
series) 25 to 26
68 VW van w balanced and blueprinted 1600 25 mpg with three hang gliders
four people and a Yamaha 80
65 VW van w same engine as the 68 21 to 23 mpg. The Westphalia camper
package added weight and drag.
73 VW van w 1700 type 4 motor 18 to 20 mpg
73 VW Thing 22 mpg unless you turned the gas heater on then 18. Had the
decency to immolate itself.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 09:36 PM 12/29/2011, chris davis wrote:
>
> Dana ,sounds logical VWs got better mileage because they were lighter but
> a VW bus camper full of camping gear and 4 hippies still got 20 to 25 Mpg
> and was that lighter than a Ford falcon getting 10 to 12 mpg Im not sure
> that ads up but we are talking about Kolbs and my original wish was that
> VW was still building millions of air cooled engines . If they were with
> todays tech and their design genius what a supply of reliable engines we
> would have!
>
> *
> *
> I think with all the aftermarket parts available there's still no problem
> building up a brand new VW engine.
>
> -Dana
> --
> Q. What's the difference between Mechanical and Civil
> Engineers?
> A. Mechanical Engineers build weapons; Civil
> Engineers build targets.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/11 |
Cool I like the thing about the Falcon. My mother had a Ford Falcon on which I
learned to drive up in Natick Mass, got drunk in it for the first time and basically
explored life as a teen ager in it. finally she took it away from me with
some yelling, and I bought a Chrysler Imperial 300 in which I kept up the mayhem
till I joined the Army. The Falcon was finally rear ended in 1969 it was
a 1963 model,,,, I was not the driver....
Never cared about the milage, I filled up the chrysler at Sports Gas station at
29 cents per gallon in Framingham mass, it was owned by "Rico" Petrocelli played
for the Red Sox.
Those were the days.
Let me scratch my head and see how to make this Kolb relevant,,, I'll get back
on that part.
Ron @ KFHU
=================
---- Richard Girard wrote:
============
Completely non Kolb, but I can't resist.
Having owned 6 Econoline vans, 1 Econoline pickup (all seven of the 61 to
67 vintage), 1 Mercury Comet, two Falcons, one Beetle, three VW vans, and a
Thing, I'm not sure where Chris gets his 10 to 12 mpg figures.
61 Econoline with 144 ci six. 25 mpg on the highway despite 60 series fat
tires at all four corners.
62 E with 170 six 18 mpg, but I never could find a decent carb for it.
63 E with 221 V8 18 mpg when the spark plug wires weren't inducting into
the dog house. Great fireworks show.
63 E with 170 six 20 to 22 mpg. Dead stock school bus, bought it right
after high school in '69.
65 E with 170 six 18 mpg another automatic
66 E with 240 six 16 mpg even though the engine was worn out.
67 E pickup with 170 six 18 mpg with almost 300K on the engine. Gave it to
my son when I moved back to Kansas
62 Mercury Comet 18 mpg with a Ford o matic
63 Falcon with 144 six, bought it for the ex as part of the divorce. She
did nothing but bitch about it
65 Falcon two door wagon with 170 six, bought it to put a 289 in it. I just
drove it home with the 170, sold project.
62 VW bug w 1200 40 horse 28 to 30 on the road w 1500 bus engine (early H
series) 25 to 26
68 VW van w balanced and blueprinted 1600 25 mpg with three hang gliders
four people and a Yamaha 80
65 VW van w same engine as the 68 21 to 23 mpg. The Westphalia camper
package added weight and drag.
73 VW van w 1700 type 4 motor 18 to 20 mpg
73 VW Thing 22 mpg unless you turned the gas heater on then 18. Had the
decency to immolate itself.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 09:36 PM 12/29/2011, chris davis wrote:
>
> Dana ,sounds logical VWs got better mileage because they were lighter but
> a VW bus camper full of camping gear and 4 hippies still got 20 to 25 Mpg
> and was that lighter than a Ford falcon getting 10 to 12 mpg Im not sure
> that ads up but we are talking about Kolbs and my original wish was that
> VW was still building millions of air cooled engines . If they were with
> todays tech and their design genius what a supply of reliable engines we
> would have!
>
> *
> *
> I think with all the aftermarket parts available there's still no problem
> building up a brand new VW engine.
>
> -Dana
> --
> Q. What's the difference between Mechanical and Civil
> Engineers?
> A. Mechanical Engineers build weapons; Civil
> Engineers build targets.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Just a suggestion -- the nearest EAA chapter may have, or know of, hole-punches
you could borrow or rent.
Nearly every builder needs them at some point.
Russ K
On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:57 PM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mike,
I had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think you have
confirmed that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will look into that
for sure. I don't have the instruments in my possesion yet so I don't know
how much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on an imperfect cut if
I do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever reason but that would play
into a decision as well. I like the removable panel idea but am concerned
about the added weight. The firefly already approaches the weight limit of part
103 and I'm trying to stay within limits if possible. Are the detachable
panels typically made of aluminum or wood? I already know that I can't reach the
panel when seated so what I have in mind is similar to what degbot has. A
grand rapids EIS and separate Alt, Aspd and compass in the panel. Switches mounted
elsewhere. I'm a lightweight at 145 pounds so
I!
> 'm expecting to have to have additional seat cushions to move me forward to get
into the CG envelope. Good to hear from you again Phil. I know that you were
thinking of going without a nosecone. How are you mounting your instruments?
Also thanks to boyd for the H brace info.
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
But then you need something for the straight edges, if you have any...
-
You got me curious. Plus, as I said, I need to face this challenge soon. Th
erefore, I went to Ace and bought some 0.09" plex just to see if I could do
it. Here are some pics:
http://phactor.com/Kolb/plexi_1.jpg
http://phactor.com/Kolb/plexi_2.jpg
For the round gauges, I started a 1/8" pilot hole and then used a rusty (bu
t sharp) old 2" hole saw. I left the protective plastic on, but discovered
it might be best to remove it; when I was drilling one of the small mountin
g screw holes later, the bit caught it and quickly wound up the entire prot
ective sheet into one little ball wrapped around the bit (not fatal; rather
funny, actually).
I also discovered you can NOT go fast with the hole saw; that's a lot of me
tal and friction and you do NOT want to melt the plastic any more than you
have to. The saw got stuck-in the first hole and I had to spend some time
carefully unsticking it (came out just fine!).
The 2nd 2" hole was a breeze. 1/8" pilot hole, then SLOWLY drill with the 2
" saw. The plexi disc pops out inside the saw (common with a hole saw) so y
ou have to pop it out; not hard to do.
Straight edges: I tried a small Harbor Freight utility hobby saw 1 1/2" dia
. but you can't take it to the corners with that. Then I tried drilling a 1
/8" pilot hole in a corner and using my Dremel with a 1/8" RotoZip zip bit
(it grinds on the sides, not the end of the bit)-- if you do that (which
worked well), then you ARE melting plastic (desired) and you have to get a
reeeeally firm grip on the tool; it can travel quickly. I found-the highe
st speed my Dremel would wind up to was best.
File the edges with metal files or sand paper. Keep in mind that edges are
largely hidden by the gauges anyway. Whatever you get; plexi, lexan, I woul
dn't be afraid of it being brittle; just be cautious of scratching where yo
u don't want scratches. My sample seemed quite robust (isn't that by design
nowadays?). And buy extra to practice on! The above was ONLY a test.
My 0.02
Phil H - 2011 FF76
-
--- On Sat, 12/31/11, russ kinne wrote:
From: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly Instrument panel
Date: Saturday, December 31, 2011, 8:17 AM
Just a suggestion -- the nearest EAA chapter may have, or know of, hole-pun
ches you could borrow or rent.
Nearly every builder needs them at some point.
Russ K
On Dec 27, 2011, at 3:57 PM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mi
ke, I had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think
you have confirmed- that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will
look into that for sure.- I don't have the instruments in my possesion ye
t so I don't know how much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on
an imperfect cut if I do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever
reason but that would play into a decision as well.- I like the removable
panel idea but am concerned about the added weight.- The firefly already
approaches the weight limit of part 103 and I'm trying to stay within limi
ts if possible.- Are the detachable panels typically made of aluminum or
wood? I already know that I can't reach the panel when seated so what I hav
e in mind is similar to what degbot has.- A grand rapids EIS and separate
Alt, Aspd and compass in the panel.- Switches mounted elsewhere.- I'm
a
lightweight at 145 pounds so
I!
> 'm expecting to have to have additional seat cushions to move me forward
to get into the CG envelope.- Good to hear from you again Phil.- I know
that you were thinking of going without a nosecone. How are you mounting y
our instruments? Also thanks to boyd for the H brace info.
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd McFarlane" <lrmcf8(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Ultrastar Landing Gear |
A friend of mine needs a left landing gear assembly. Anyone out there
that would like to part with one?
Lloyd McFarlane
FireStar II/N6122L
Fullerton, CA
714-525-8429
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Bonsell <ebonsell(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | re: Holes in instrament panel |
When I made the holes in the panel for my Firestar I used a hole saw
smaller than the size I wanted then used a little drum sander on a drill
and carefully sanded the edges holes to the desired size. The holes came
out nice and clean with no frayed edges.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I started in regular planes, 150's, TriPacers, J-3's in the early seventies. Owned
two Rogallo hangliders but wasn't my cup of tea. Iv'e flown ultralights since
the early eighties and for the last eleven years I've been flying gyros. My
first was a lowrider Air Command, then a subaru powered Bensen. I presently
own a single seat 503 Dominator. Think of an open frame gyro as a dirt bike of
the air.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362180#362180
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
| From: | "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com> |
I called J Bird last week to order a new TA440 and he mentioned that they have
some 447 Rotax engines left.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362225#362225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
I lived in Key West for 13 years>>
Hi,
I have been out to the Keys a couple of times. I found a guy giving rides in
a flying inflatable rubber boat with a sort of weight shift wing on it.
Tried several times but never made contact with the owner.
Had to make do with a trip in a Stearman and an ex military jet fighter.
Well, things are tough all over.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Mark IIIXtra |
-----Original Message-----
From: Clay Stuart [mailto:tcstuart(at)roadrunner.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 8:39 PM
Subject: Mark IIIXtra
John,
Could you again kindly forward this new email to the Kolb list?
I have had some interest in selling this MarkIIIXtra kit serial #21-
one of the better earlier ones with separate flaps and ailerons.
Because of potential liability issues, I was thinking of parting out
the kit. All flying surfaces complete, but no fabric. Custom made,
welded and pressure-tested twin aluminum gas tanks with Rochester custom
visual fuel gauge, approximately 7 gallons each. Powder coated yellow
fuselage has dual controls, Lexan installed on windshield and doors. I have
an unpainted nose skid. The boom is also yellow powder coated.
Anyone need any of these parts for repair/upgrade? I think I would have
less legal exposure for these parts to go on a plane that already has it
airworthiness certificate and N number.
Thanks,
Clay Stuart
Danville KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotax ends production of the 503 ?? |
| From: | "stogie6" <djones(at)fisherarnold.com> |
What about parts availability? My guess is that we will still be able to get parts
and service for our 503s.
I am new to this sport and still have tons to learn - but getting there!
--------
David F. Jones
Kolb KXP
N71RB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362505#362505
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447. It
comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getting
the threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just a
matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for
the threaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know
what it is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
Gregg,
No, a threaded style isn't just a drill and tap proposition. If you were to
go with a threaded style probe,
you'd need to weld a "bung" on you exhaust pipe. The bung is what O2 sensors,
etc, etc, screw into.
I suppose if you found the right nut size, (for your probe threads),you could drill
a slightly oversize
probe hole, and weld on the nut.
For the hassle, most people just use the drilled hole style, that uses a band
clamp. The accuracy is
probably within 2% of either style. Probe depth accuracy is more of a determiner
of temp reading, rather
than style.
Mike Welch
Never known for doing things the easy way. I welded on the bung for my Auber Instruments
EGT probe.
Wasn't the easy way, but sure is solid as h.....
On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:20 PM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447.
It comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getting
the threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just
a matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for
the threaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know
what it is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
The manifold probably has two tapped bosses for the probe. Get the
threaded probes; looks much better.
In a message dated 1/5/2012 4:27:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
t41pilot(at)frontier.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "t41pilot"
I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax
447. It comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust
gas with a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any
benefit to getting the threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is
is it just a matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a
hole and tap it for the threaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the
house so I don't know what it is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any
thoughts would be appreciated
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I second the vote for threaded probes. Your manifold may have the bungs
already, the last 447 I sold did. The hole for the hose clamp style is a
great crack starter.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 3:58 PM, wrote:
> **
> The manifold probably has two tapped bosses for the probe. Get the
> threaded probes; looks much better.
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2012 4:27:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> t41pilot(at)frontier.com writes:
>
>
> I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax
> 447. It comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring
> exhaust gas with a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there
> any benefit to getting the threaded one as far as accuracy of the
> measurement or is is it just a matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would
> have to drill a hole and tap it for the threaded one. I don't have the
> exhaust here at the house so I don't know what it is made out of or the
> ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515**
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax
447. It comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring
exhaust gas with a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is
there any benefit to getting the threaded one as far as accuracy of the
measurement or is is it just a matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would
have to drill a hole and tap it for the threaded one. I don't have the
exhaust here at the house so I don't know what it is made out of or the
ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
i helped a friend with a threaded one,,, and the threads were,, shall i
say extremely hard to remove,,,i am sure some high temp anti seize would
have been the thing to do,,,, i have the type with the hose clamp,,,
726.1 hours and still on tight, with no problems.
boyd young
mkiii 912
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
OK, I found out the exhaust manifold is already tapped at the proper locations
at the factory for the probes. Would the clamp on style still use these same
holes or would these holes have to be sealed and new ones drilled?
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362534#362534
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
On 01/05/2012 03:20 PM, t41pilot wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "t41pilot"
>
> I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447.
It comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getting
the threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just
a matter of asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for
the threaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know
what it is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
Hi Gregg,
Are you interested in a used one, minus the probes? I have an extra one
that is in good working order. I'll try to make you a good deal on it.
I'm walking out the door now & can't check prices, etc until after lunch
tomorrow, but if you're interested, send me an email or give me a call
tomorrow after 2:00 PM.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
Gregg,
No, a clamp-on style EGT probe depends of the expanded ring of the base of the
probe being pressed firmly against
the pipe(by the clamp)....not on top of some threaded mounting boss. Since you
do the the factory threaded bosses, you're in bidness.
Yes, if you were to STILL want to go with a clamp-on style, I am fairly certain
you'd have to plug the existing
threaded hole....and then drill the proper tight hole for the probe to insert into.
But then one would ask "Why?!"
If you have the threaded boss, why would you even care about how a clamp style
mounts? Although many
guys have had millions of hours on the clamp-on style without any bad tendencies,
certainly a threaded mount is a
heckava lot more solid.....and you already have the mount!!
Mike
On Jan 5, 2012, at 4:47 PM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> OK, I found out the exhaust manifold is already tapped at the proper locations
at the factory for the probes. Would the clamp on style still use these same
holes or would these holes have to be sealed and new ones drilled?
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362534#362534
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
Thanks Mike..Sounds like that is the direction to go.[/quote]
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362547#362547
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | "t41pilot" <t41pilot(at)frontier.com> |
Thanks Mike..Sounds like that is the direction to go.
> If you have the threaded boss, why would you even care about how a clamp style
mounts? Although many
> guys have had millions of hours on the clamp-on style without any bad tendencies,
certainly a threaded mount is a
> heckava lot more solid.....and you already have the mount!!
>
> Mike
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362548#362548
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
The manifold should have plugs in the bosses already from the factory.
In a message dated 1/5/2012 5:53:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
t41pilot(at)frontier.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "t41pilot"
OK, I found out the exhaust manifold is already tapped at the proper
locations at the factory for the probes. Would the clamp on style still use
these same holes or would these holes have to be sealed and new ones drilled?
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362534#362534
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
if you want to use the threaded one you will have to weld the fitting in to
your Exhaust pipe The one with
the clamp
can be a pain the clamps break once in a while but the threaded ones can be
a problem also once you have it installed the probe
swells up enough so that it will not come back out of the fitting however
they both give good readings
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: t41pilot <t41pilot(at)frontier.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 4:27 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447
. It
omes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a
hreaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getti
ng
he threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just a ma
tter
f asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for the
hreaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know wh
at
t is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciat
ed
--------
regg Kaat
011 Firefly
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
just herd from a guy wanting to sell his floats =0Aalso I just saw- john
hauk- and dick reyhill on the video LOTS N LOTS if planes and jets=0A-
only sold on TV.-- mal-- -=0A=0AMalcolm & Jeanne Brubaker =0AMich
igan Sport Pilot Repair =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0AGreat Sails - Sailmaker =0Afor
Ultralight & Light Sport=0A(989)513-3022=0A =0A=0A________________________
________=0A From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>=0ATo: kolb-list
@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, January 6, 2012 7:39 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb
-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000=0A =0A=0Aif you want to use the threaded one y
ou will have to weld the fitting in to your Exhaust pipe- The one with
=0Athe clamp =0Acan be a pain the clamps break once in a while but the thre
aded ones can be a problem also once you have it installed- the probe
=0Aswells up enough so that it will not come back out of the fitting- how
ever they both give good readings =0A=0A- =0AEllery Batchelder Jr. =0A
=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: t41pilot <t41pilot(at)frontier.com>
=0ATo: kolb-list =0ASent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 4:27 pm
=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000=0A=0A=0A--> Kolb-List message
posted by: "t41pilot" I'm about to order a Grand Ra
pids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447. It =0Acomes standard with
a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with a =0Athreaded one
as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getting =0Athe th
readed one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just a matter
=0Aof asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for t
he =0Athreaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't
know what =0Ait is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts woul
d be appreciated --------=0AGregg Kaat=0A2011 Firefly Read this topic onlin
e here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515 get=_
blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List=0Ap://forums.matronics.c
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Ellery, all, the cure for sticking threaded probes is high temperature
anti-seize compound. The difference between it and the regular compound is
a high nickel content.
http://www.neverseezproducts.com/purenickel.htm
The smallest tin you can find it in, generally, is 8 oz., which is most
probably a lifetime supply.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote:
> if you want to use the threaded one you will have to weld the fitting in
> to your Exhaust pipe The one with
> the clamp
> can be a pain the clamps break once in a while but the threaded ones can
> be a problem also once you have it installed the probe
> swells up enough so that it will not come back out of the fitting however
> they both give good readings
>
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: t41pilot <t41pilot(at)frontier.com>
> To: kolb-list
> Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 4:27 pm
> Subject: Kolb-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
>
>
> I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447.
It
> comes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a
> threaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getting
> the threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just a matter
> of asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for the
> threaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know what
> it is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciated
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
> 2011 Firefly
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
>
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 2000 |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
I use nickleseize but the problem is the probe swells up bigger than the ho
le it fits into
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
Ellery, all, the cure for sticking threaded probes is high temperature anti
-seize compound. The difference between it and the regular compound is a hi
gh nickel content.
http://www.neverseezproducts.com/purenickel.htm
The smallest tin you can find it in, generally, is 8 oz., which is most pro
bably a lifetime supply.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr w
rote:
if you want to use the threaded one you will have to weld the fitting in to
your Exhaust pipe The one with
the clamp
can be a pain the clamps break once in a while but the threaded ones can be
a problem also once you have it installed the probe
swells up enough so that it will not come back out of the fitting however
they both give good readings
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: t41pilot <t41pilot(at)frontier.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 4:27 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Grand Rapids EIS 2000
I'm about to order a Grand Rapids EIS model 2000 to monitor a new rotax 447
. It
omes standard with a hose clamp style probe for monitoring exhaust gas with
a
hreaded one as an option at additional cost. Is there any benefit to getti
ng
he threaded one as far as accuracy of the measurement or is is it just a ma
tter
f asthetics? I'm assuming I would have to drill a hole and tap it for the
hreaded one. I don't have the exhaust here at the house so I don't know wh
at
t is made out of or the ease of tapping it. Any thoughts would be appreciat
ed
--------
regg Kaat
011 Firefly
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362515#362515
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: Jan 6, 2012 |
Gang, I just spent two great days with the men from Kolb in London, KY. These
men (Travis, Bryan and Dennis and Kenny too) are just down right nice guys in
addition to being masters at what they do. I hope to post some photos soon of
the exhaust system they designed for the MKIIIX, VW conversion I am building.
WOW! I want to publically thank them for all they do.
I was also able to transport Phil H.'s cage and engine back here to Chattanooga
for him. We were able to load his FF cage into and on top of my MKIIIX cage.
As Bryan said before I left KY it probably turned some heads on the 3 hour
trip down through Knoxville. According to Phil we now have four Kolbers in this
area.
Thanks for the information on the list.
Bob Green
N830PB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: Jan 6, 2012 |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
Bob
Congratulations on pushing the development and getting the first exhaust
system. Please keep us up to date on any issues with the exhaust system.
Also PLEASE send photos as soon as possible.
Thanks
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Bob Green wrote:
>
> Gang, I just spent two great days with the men from Kolb in London, KY.
> These men (Travis, Bryan and Dennis and Kenny too) are just down right
> nice guys in addition to being masters at what they do. I hope to post
> some photos soon of the exhaust system they designed for the MKIIIX, VW
> conversion I am building. WOW! I want to publically thank them for all
> they do.
> I was also able to transport Phil H.'s cage and engine back here to
> Chattanooga for him. We were able to load his FF cage into and on top of
> my MKIIIX cage. As Bryan said before I left KY it probably turned some
> heads on the 3 hour trip down through Knoxville. According to Phil we now
> have four Kolbers in this area.
> Thanks for the information on the list.
> Bob Green
> N830PB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> |
HI all,
checking to see if my E-mail is working.
Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: E- Mail broken? |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Seems to be sending, I guess we'll see if it's receiving, too, eh?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:59 PM, frank goodnight wrote:
> HI all,
> checking to see if my E-mail is working.
> Frank
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Getting off the Pennzoil Air Cooled habit |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Shell, which owns the Pennzoil brand, has discontinued making Pennzoil Air
Cooled two cycle oil and, according to Shell engineers, the API-TC additive
package in Air Cooled is incompatible with the TCW-3 additive package found
in most of the two cycle oils on the store shelves these days. The
incompatibility is such that one causes the other to congeal. If you premix
don't sweat it, the dilution of the oil in the gasoline takes care of the
difference, but if your Rotax engine has an oil injection pump you have to
make a clean change over.
Here's a simple way to do it. Empty the oil tank, remove it from its mount
with the lines up to the pump and clean it and the line with some clean
gas, Use the gas you cleaned with and mix a gallon or two of premix. Put
the premix in your fuel tank. Remount and reconnect the oil tank and lines,
fill it half way with clean gas. Start the engine and warm it up to
operating temps, shut down. Drain the gas from the oil tank and fill with
your new favorite oil (I went with Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic, because
I can almost always get it at the local Wally's in gallons). Drain the
float bowl(s) of your carb(s). Start the engine and bring to operating
temps again (I'm extra cautious about the tiny amount of gas left in the
pump and want to make sure the engine always has oil). Fill your fuel tank
with fresh gas and go fly. The whole process takes about thirty minutes
start to finish.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: E- Mail broken? |
Works for me!
On Jan 7, 2012, at 6:59 PM, frank goodnight wrote:
> HI all,
> checking to see if my E-mail is working.
> Frank
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com> |
Hi Frank=2C Looks like it is working. Kurt
Date: Sat=2C 7 Jan 2012 15:59:22 -0800
From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net
Subject: Kolb-List: E- Mail broken?
HI all=2Cchecking to see if my E-mail is working.Frank
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/07/12 |
| From: | Tim Bjork <tdbjork(at)gmail.com> |
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Getting off the Pennzoil Air Cooled habit
> From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
>
> Shell, which owns the Pennzoil brand, has discontinued making Pennzoil Air
> Cooled two cycle oil and, according to Shell engineers, the API-TC additive
> package in Air Cooled is incompatible with the TCW-3 additive package found
> in most of the two cycle oils on the store shelves these days. The
> incompatibility is such that one causes the other to congeal. If you premix
> don't sweat it, the dilution of the oil in the gasoline takes care of the
> difference, but if your Rotax engine has an oil injection pump you have to
> make a clean change over.
> Here's a simple way to do it. Empty the oil tank, remove it from its mount
> with the lines up to the pump and clean it and the line with some clean
> gas, Use the gas you cleaned with and mix a gallon or two of premix. Put
> the premix in your fuel tank. Remount and reconnect the oil tank and lines,
> fill it half way with clean gas. Start the engine and warm it up to
> operating temps, shut down. Drain the gas from the oil tank and fill with
> your new favorite oil (I went with Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic, because
> I can almost always get it at the local Wally's in gallons). Drain the
> float bowl(s) of your carb(s). Start the engine and bring to operating
> temps again (I'm extra cautious about the tiny amount of gas left in the
> pump and want to make sure the engine always has oil). Fill your fuel tank
> with fresh gas and go fly. The whole process takes about thirty minutes
> start to finish.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
> Hi Richard, I just read your post on the Kolb list about how to switch
> from one oil to another if you have an oil-injection system. And I agree
> with you 110%, but the reason you would go through this procedure is to
> make sure the combination of the two oils do not jell together and cause no
> oil to flow and therefor starving the engine of oil and probably doing a
> lot of damage to it. So what if you took an small sample, say a shot full,
> of the oil you are now using and one shot of the proposed oil that you
> intend to use,, mix them together,, let them set for 24 hrs. or even a
> week and if they jell do your procedure,, and if they don't,, mix em?
>
Tim Bjork
Firestar 11 N2552A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Getting off the Pennzoil Air Cooled habit |
| From: | Tim Bjork <tdbjork(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Richard, I just read your post on the Kolb list about how to switch
from one oil to another if you have an oil-injection system. And I agree
with you 110%, but the reason you would go through this procedure is to
make sure the combination of the two oils do not jell together and cause no
oil to flow and therefor starving the engine of oil and probably doing a
lot of damage to it. So what if you took an small sample, say a shot full,
of the oil you are now using and one shot of the proposed oil that you
intend to use,, mix them together,, let them set for 24 hrs. or even a
week and if they jell do your procedure,, and if they don't,, mix em?
Tim Bjork
Firestar 11 N2552A
P.S. This is my first post on the list, so if I mess this up please excuse
me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Amendment to Air Cooled post |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
When I went back and re-read last night's post about changing over from
Pennzoil Air Cooled oil, I realized I had misplaced the instruction to
drain the float bowl(s). This should be done before starting the engine
with gas in the oil tank otherwise you'll be running your engine for a few
seconds with no lubrication. My bad, sorry.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting off the Pennzoil Air Cooled habit |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Why take the chance? You can look on the container to see what the additive
package it contains, API-TC or TCW-3.
Second, how will you simulate the small passages in the oil pump? Perhaps,
I honestly don't know the answer, the additives jell when they are mixed
and deprived or air. Or, temperature could cause it when the oil is heated
and cooled.
For me it's a no brainer. Engines cost $4,000 to $8,000. It took me about
1/2 hour to make a safe change. That's $8,000 to $16,000 an hour for my
labor. I can't make that much as an LSARM, and working for myself on my own
engines I make $0 so that tips the cost / benefit balance even further.
It's a free country, you can do as you like, but I wouldn't recommend it
when doing it right takes so little time and cost.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Tim Bjork wrote:
> Hi Richard, I just read your post on the Kolb list about how to switch
> from one oil to another if you have an oil-injection system. And I agree
> with you 110%, but the reason you would go through this procedure is to
> make sure the combination of the two oils do not jell together and cause no
> oil to flow and therefor starving the engine of oil and probably doing a
> lot of damage to it. So what if you took an small sample, say a shot full,
> of the oil you are now using and one shot of the proposed oil that you
> intend to use,, mix them together,, let them set for 24 hrs. or even a
> week and if they jell do your procedure,, and if they don't,, mix em?
> Tim Bjork
> Firestar 11 N2552A
> P.S. This is my first post on the list, so if I mess this up please excuse
> me.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | bonding lexan or plexiglass |
what type of solvent would weld Plexiglas or lexan. i have a small crack
in my window, i have stop drilled it. but was wondering if a drop of
solvent would help stabilize the crack.
boyd young
mkIII
utah
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding lexan or plexiglass |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
As I recall, toluol or toluene was the solvent in the plastic cement that
held Monogram and Revell airplane models together before the huffers ruined
it for everybody.
http://www.curbellplastics.com/adhesives-sealants/solvent-based-adhesives.html
Rick Girard
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 11:43 AM, b young wrote:
>
> what type of solvent would weld Plexiglas or lexan. i have a small
> crack in my window, i have stop drilled it. but was wondering if a drop
> of solvent would help stabilize the crack.
>
> boyd young
>
> mkIII
> utah
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bonding lexan or plexiglass |
Hey Boyd,
How's it going?
Gluing plastics is what "Weld-On Cement" does. Go on eBay and do a search for
Weld On. Then
look for the #16, "Clear Medium Bodied Solvent Cement". The number (#3, #16, etc.
refers to the
viscosity. The #3 is water thin. The #16 is more like maple syrup (but clear
of course).
The Weld-On Cement literally "welds" the two pieces of plastic together.....rather
than just
provide a glue between the parts.
If you go to "TAP Plastics" they have tons of short videos for ALL kinds of fun
plastic projects.
You can get a huge amount of tips from them...for free (my favorite price!!)
Best to ya, Mike Welch
PS. Here, I'll get a link for you:On Jan 8, 2012, at 11:43 AM, b young wrote:
>
> what type of solvent would weld Plexiglas or lexan. i have a small crack in
my window, i have stop drilled it. but was wondering if a drop of solvent
would help stabilize the crack.
>
> boyd young
>
> mkIII
> utah
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | bonding lexan or Plexiglas |
what type of solvent would weld Plexiglas or lexan. i have a small crack
in my window, i have stop drilled it. but was wondering if a drop of
solvent would help stabilize the crack.
boyd young
Boyd Y/Gang:
Don't know what others do, but I stop drill and keep my eye on it.
I believe Plexiglas and Lexan are two different animals.
More than once I have ruined Lexan by letting Locktite or certain gasoline
types splash on it.
I have several cracks in my windshield and doors stop drilled. Might not
hurt to put a piece of Gorilla Tape on it. Use pinking shears to make a
dollar patch or a star, etc. Don't know if that would prevent further
cracking or just look mighty purty.
Getting ready to fly back to LA, north of Nauga Field, to a strip called
Netterville. Gent has a 5th wheel I am interested in. Also has a 3,000 ft
asphalt airstrip on his place. Way over my head. ;-) Weather is either
going to be wet or clear and cold. ;-(
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | bonding Lexan or Plexiglas |
what type of solvent would weld Plexiglas or lexan.
boyd young
mkIII
Here ya go:
http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Lexan_Polycarbonate_Glue
Says it will work on Lexan polycarbonate.
Never used it and don't know anyone else who has on a Kolb Lexan windshield
or door glass.
Let us know how it works out if you choose to go that route. Be sure and
try it on a scrape piece before committing to your airplane.
Looks good enough to commit a little aviation this afternoon.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mk III max take off weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
For all Mk III, C or X models, with 582's. What's the maximum weight you've
taken off? What is your climb rate?
I flew the X at 1108 lb. yesterday (me, 240 lb bundled up for the cold,
half tank, 48 lb., and 160 lb. of cement bags, and the plane scales in at
660 lb. ). The take off and first two minutes of the flight were knuckle
biters. Thank God for the house thermal coming off the field at the end of
the runway, it doubled my climb rate according to my Ball Variometer. Once
above the convective activity in glass smooth air the vario showed a climb
of 250 / 300 fpm.
John H., I've read your stories of taking potential customers, but were
those flights with a 582 or a 912?
Folks, feel free to email me off list if you don't want to post to the
forum.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Mk III max takeoff weight |
John H., I've read your stories of taking potential customers, but were
those flights with a 582 or a 912?
Folks, feel free to email me off list if you don't want to post to the
forum.
Rick Girard
Rick G/Kolbers:
I have flown passengers with the 582, 912 80 and 100 horse engines in the
MKIIIc. No problem with the 582 and heavy loads. Been to long to remember
numbers. Factory MKIIIc's didn't have rate of climb instruments.
Flew my MKIIIc with 582, placarded for 1,200 lbs, regularly at 1,100 to
1,200 lbs with no problems. Performed quite well.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max take off weight |
| From: | "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net> |
Rick,
Mine is not a Mk3 but instead a Kolbra. I uploaded a video yesterday to youtube.
This is a flight I took yesterday at 1075 pounds. The performance degrades
due to atmospheric conditions and weight but varies. It was over 70 degrees
with 100% humidity yesterday (higher density alt but did not do the calculations).
I was not trying to get off short or climb quick, just a normal flight.
I obtained about a 600fpm climb and cruised between 75 and 80 on average. If
I dump the passenger it really makes a huge difference. I am taking a x-country
to Arkansas next weekend and will have some video of that solo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC6XxUfU8oQ&context=C32210f3ADOEgsToPDskIbX3ac2BZCXqMB3-vzjBhz
Travis Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362756#362756
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Well, Dang. It took over half the runway to get off ~1300 ft. the runway is
2500 and I only made it to 200/250 ft by the time I reached the road at the
end with the stick in my lap. I kept the ASI glued on 55 because I hadn't
performed a stall at that weight yet. Once I got to 3000 I found that stall
at that weight occurs at 45 mph indicated only 3 miles an hour more than
with just me in the plane. Another surprise was that max cruise dropped
from 75 to 65 at 5800 rpm. In testing on Friday I found that the engine
reaches 6150 rpm wide open in level flight so there's a little to be had
there, but not much. All this was at OAT's of 52 to 58 and humidity at 50%,
field elevation 1280 ft.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 12:48 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> John H., I've read your stories of taking potential customers, but were
> those flights with a 582 or a 912?
> Folks, feel free to email me off list if you don't want to post to the
> forum.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> Rick G/Kolbers:
>
> I have flown passengers with the 582, 912 80 and 100 horse engines in the
> MKIIIc. No problem with the 582 and heavy loads. Been to long to remember
> numbers. Factory MKIIIc's didn't have rate of climb instruments.
>
> Flew my MKIIIc with 582, placarded for 1,200 lbs, regularly at 1,100 to
> 1,200 lbs with no problems. Performed quite well.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Everglades flight |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, Gang,
I tried a very low tech video with my phone in one hand and the stick in the other
yesterday. A little awkward, but it gives you a sense of what's in our back
yard down here in S. Florida. It was a beautiful day for Kolbing!
Hope you enjoy it.
Dave Watkins
Mk III Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfNTL_AQTQw
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362767#362767
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting off the Pennzoil Air Cooled habit |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Hi Tim, welcome to the list. I don't really remember my post, so let me give you
another war story. (hope I haven't told it already) Back around 1971, I had
a Yamaha 175 with oil injection and I had been using (I guess) petroleum base
2 cycle oil in it. I was at my folks house and noticed that the oil had dropped
below the little view window in the reservoir, and my Dad offered me a can
(probably synthetic) of the oil he ran in his big outboard. I said OK, and was
within a mile of getting home when it locked up.
The problem was it blended OK, no jelling or anything, it apparently just didn't
cooperate with whatever oil was already in there, and consequently failed to
lubricate like it was supposed to. Not being an oil guru, and having heard other
similar horror stories, I decided that it is just too easy to drain out all
the oil you can, put in the new oil, and then jack the oil injection pump to
wide open while the engine runs lazily at around 3,000. Flushes the lines mos
skosh, and kills all the mosquitoes within 100 yards too. Probably totally unnecessary,
probably another example of my typical overkill way of doing things,
but hey - I got a lot of mosquitoes in my hedgerow that need killin'-
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362768#362768
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bonding lexan or Plexiglas |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
What John said. Also, keep Superglue/cyanoacrilate of any and all descriptions
away from Lexan, it will destroy it in short order.
I have had a crack in the thin Lexan windshield of my Suzuki SV-650 for years,
put a "S" for Suzuki over it and it hasn't got any worse. Got a split in the edge
of one of the cut away door panels for the MKIII and put some metal tape over
it to stop it from getting worse. That cheap fix has lasted for 3 years, but
it looks like this winter I will have to break down and replace the Lexan.
Which is a shame, that door has only lasted 16 years...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362769#362769
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Mk III max takeoff weight |
What's max continuous rpm on a 582?
Way back when my MKIII was 582 powered max continuous cruise was 6,500, and
I usually cruised at 5,800. Aircraft was propped to turn 6,500 rpm straight
and level WOT.
A couple hundred rpm increase makes a lot of difference in climb
performance.
Holding the stick in your gut sounds to me like you are still dealing with a
high thrust line. A high thrust line will rob you of much hp and
performance. Sounds like very poor performance for any model Kolb.
Got a good half hour flight time between and around the rain showers today.
Did a high overhead circling approach from 2,000 feet to the sod strip at
Wetumpka Airport. That is fun to do in any airplane, especially a Kolb.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
200/250 ft by the time I reached the road at the end with the stick in my
lap
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max take off weight |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Heaviest so far was with the 532 and a big passenger, probably about 1100 pounds.
It was off a 4,000' runway, temperature in the mid 70's, and takeoff and climb
was about what you would get out of a C-150, around 400-450 FPM. Also, with
that much weight ahead of the CG, plan to land W/O flaps, or you will likely
run out of elevator authority in the flare.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362770#362770
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
That brought back memories. I learned to fly out of Opa-Locka with Burnside-Ott,
and all my flights were over the glades.
Before I proposed to my wife, we had taken the Piper Colt up to Sebring to watch
the races and on the way back, we were at around 3,000' over maybe that same
road, and I reached down under my left leg and turned off the fuel, counted to
ten, and turned off the master. (They were close to each other down under the
left thigh of whoever was in the left seat.)
As the engine started to poop out, she looked up from reading her book and asked
what was wrong. I pointed to the gauges all falling to the left and said we
would just have to land on that road. She shrugged, carefully put the bookmark
into the page and secured the book, pulled the shoulder harness as tight as it
would go, said "OK," and sat quietly to watch the show.
At that point, I knew I had a keeper.
But she was a bit P.O.'d when I turned the gas back on and flipped the switch and
everything came back to normal...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362772#362772
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
John, I use 6300 as max, although I got the prop a little flat once and saw
6860 before I dialed it back. That, too was a long flat climb. :-{ I need
to put Ken's prop on the airplane after I shorten each blade 1 1/2". It's a
70 right now and if I allow for just 1/2" clearance to the boom it's will
run a 67.
I'm also going to revisit the carb synch. This is a relatively new engine
(40 hours as of yesterday eve) and the cables may have stretched. I just
want to know it's making every last bit of power she can.
Thrust line is now dead stock. When I moved the engine back 3/4" to allow
the starter on the "E" drive to clear the rear spar, I was able to bring
the engine down. No more spacers, and the last time I changed it I flipped
the Lord mounts back over to short side up, too.
I gave up the fight and finally killed the lawn dart syndrome with 7" long
trim tabs on the inboard end of each elevator. Now the trim system is
adjustable depending on throttle setting and bank angle. Friday I was doing
linked 45 degree banked turns. I had to high side the ailerons a bit, but
once everything is set the IIIX tracks right around. A little rudder to
help the ailerons when reversing the turn and she swings right out of one
turn and into the other. Hit my turbulence every time.
I learned something else in all the testing. Sealing the gap between
horizontal stab and the boom tube and the stab and the elevator results in
much improved elevator AND rudder response. Even at 1100 lb. I can pull the
stick all the way back until it hits the seat rail and keep it there in a
falling leaf stall. A light touch on the rudder will raise a wing.
Yesterday I descended 1000' that way in less than a minute. The vario said
I was doing 1200 fpm down, which tallies with the altimeter. All the while
the nose stayed pointed into the wind.
Also, the demonstrated crosswind capability of the Mk IIIX is 13 mph with
the wind at 90 to the runway. Did that yesterday morning 5 times in a row.
In short, I'm really learning to love the IIIX. My perfect Mk III Kolb
would be a IIIX with a bobbed nose and not quite such a flat bottom. About
1/2 way between a C and X would be perfect, IMHO. That and a one piece,
forward tilting canopy with gas cylinders. I'm just too stiff to squeeze
through either of the III's doors anymore.
Even just the way it is, she's a sweet little plane.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 3:49 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> What's max continuous rpm on a 582?****
>
> ** **
>
> Way back when my MKIII was 582 powered max continuous cruise was 6,500,
> and I usually cruised at 5,800. Aircraft was propped to turn 6,500 rpm
> straight and level WOT.****
>
> ** **
>
> A couple hundred rpm increase makes a lot of difference in climb
> performance.****
>
> ** **
>
> Holding the stick in your gut sounds to me like you are still dealing with
> a high thrust line. A high thrust line will rob you of much hp and
> performance. Sounds like very poor performance for any model Kolb.****
>
> ** **
>
> Got a good half hour flight time between and around the rain showers today.
> Did a high overhead circling approach from 2,000 feet to the sod strip at
> Wetumpka Airport. That is fun to do in any airplane, especially a Kolb.**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> john h****
>
> mkIII****
>
> Titus, Alabama**
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> 200/250 ft by the time I reached the road at the end with the stick in
> my lap ****
>
> ** **
>
> Rick****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com> |
John,
Your reply struck a cord with me.Loaded,my MK3 climbs better at 2900rpm(jab
iru direct drive) than it does at WOT 3150.The amount of stick back pressur
e drops off as well.My heaviest lift off in 75 degrees was 1205#@1100 ' msl
.
G.Aman MK3c Jabiru 2200a 670 hrs.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 4:52 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Mk III max takeoff weight
What's max continuous rpm on a 582?
Way back when my MKIII was 582 powered max continuous cruise was 6,500, and
I usually cruised at 5,800. Aircraft was propped to turn 6,500 rpm straig
ht and level WOT.
A couple hundred rpm increase makes a lot of difference in climb performanc
e.
Holding the stick in your gut sounds to me like you are still dealing with
a high thrust line. A high thrust line will rob you of much hp and perform
ance. Sounds like very poor performance for any model Kolb.
Got a good half hour flight time between and around the rain showers today.
Did a high overhead circling approach from 2,000 feet to the sod strip at
Wetumpka Airport. That is fun to do in any airplane, especially a Kolb.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
200/250 ft by the time I reached the road at the end with the stick in my
lap
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Mk III max takeoff weight |
Your reply struck a cord with me.Loaded,my MK3 climbs better at
2900rpm(jabiru direct drive) than it does at WOT 3150.The amount of stick
back pressure drops off as well.My heaviest lift off in 75 degrees was
1205#@1100 ' msl.
G.Aman MK3c Jabiru 2200a 670 hrs.
Gary A/Kolbers:
Takes HP to keep that high thrust line from pushing us into the ground.
After many hours flying my MKIII with 80 HP, I was alarmed on my first
takeoff with the 100 horse. The MKIII didn't want to break ground. I
backed off the power and she came right up. Didn't take long to readjust to
the bigger engine, and I never had that problem again.
I believe that not only do we have the high thrust line working against us,
but we also have a less than efficient engine mount configuration. The more
power we have, the more the engine is pushed out of alignment with the
airframe. Softer Lord Mounts aggravate this condition. I remember flying
my FS with softer Lord Mounts. On one occasion, at wide open throttle, the
FS would not accelerate past 65 or 70 mph. Thought I had an engine problem.
I slowly started backed off the throttle. As I did, the airspeed started to
increase. I very slowly increased throttle and airspeed also increased. I
think the engine power was overpowering the soft Lord Mounts to the point of
kicking the thrust line so far out of alignment it would not fly any faster.
Now I insure I have the hardest Lord Mounts on my MKIII to prevent this from
happening.
I have landed and taken off from 9,927 feet ASL at Leadville, CO, at max
gross weight. Although the pilot was behind the power curve, the MKIII did
a good job. There is a big transition for a sea level pilot put into a
10,000 foot environment.
Most of my flying out West is around 5,000 feet up to 14,500 feet. The
912ULS and the MKIII perform well. Flying out there every day, one soon
adjusts to high altitude flying.
Also, local flying is done primarily with an empty airplane. When I load up
to take a long cross country it takes a day or two to become adjusted to
flying a heavy airplane again. Then that becomes normal.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Watching the rain drops fall on a warm, wet, and foggy
Monday morning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Great video can't wait to complete my move to FL.
One question which is the most friendly airport for Kolbs with the cheapest enclosed
hanger in South Florida. I am planing of moving to Fort Lauderdale so I
can work out of KFXE, but anywhere I can store the Kolb folded or otherwise till
I can finish it would be good. I am also thinking of selling it as I am too
busy to work on it in a reasonable pace not sure what is the going selling price
for a mostly completed M3X with a Suzuki 1.3 16 valves DBL OHC motor. The
T hangers at KFXE are too small for the M3X to store with the Beech Sierra.
Ron @ KFHU
Heading to FLA soon.
============================================
---- Watkinsdw wrote:
Hi, Gang,
I tried a very low tech video with my phone in one hand and the stick in the other
yesterday. A little awkward, but it gives you a sense of what's in our back
yard down here in S. Florida. It was a beautiful day for Kolbing!
Hope you enjoy it.
Dave Watkins
Mk III Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfNTL_AQTQw
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362767#362767
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kolb Flying High over The Beach Just South of KVNC |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
I was sitting on the Florida Golf Beach watching the sunset tonight 1/9/12
and a Kolb flew over was that you George?
Haven't flown since October and that flight got me scratching. The flying
itch needs to be scratched soon.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Hi, Ron,
I share space in a 1/2 t- hanger rented by my flying club at KPMP.
If it weren't an option, I'd consider Airglades at Clewiston, on the SW side of
Lake Okeechobee. Good t- hangers w/ hydraulic doors go for $225/ month plus tax
($250 in all.)
They have a good paved runway plus a grass strip (my preference.)
Let me know when you arrive!
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362893#362893
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sky Biker <smlplanet(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Dave there is one draw back to Airglades at Clewiston and that being some t
ime the sky divers think they rule the air when jumping.
I live west of there and make it a point to stay clear of Airglades when fl
ying in that area any more. I have been in there both by air and driven and
they are not the friendliest persons when it comes to our type aircraft. M
K 111 C/912 UL
> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Everglades flight
> From: david.watkins0(at)gmail.com
> Date: Mon=2C 9 Jan 2012 16:21:32 -0800
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hi=2C Ron=2C
> I share space in a 1/2 t- hanger rented by my flying club at KPMP.
> If it weren't an option=2C I'd consider Airglades at Clewiston=2C on the
SW side of Lake Okeechobee. Good t- hangers w/ hydraulic doors go for $225/
month plus tax ($250 in all.)
> They have a good paved runway plus a grass strip (my preference.)
> Let me know when you arrive!
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362893#362893
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
So I cut down Ken's 70 inch prop to 67" and there's a knuckles clearance to
the boom. Before that I spent a good part of the morning cleaning and
balancing it. Put the WD prop protractor on my prop and measured it before
taking it off, then set the new prop the same. Wouldn't get over 5850 in
climb or 6100 flat out. Cylinder head temp on #2 set off the alarm so I had
to keep the engine at 5600 rpm in cruise to keep the CHT at 268 and keep
that annoying red light from flashing. That stuff they teach you about
loading up the engine is true. Got back to the house and started
re-pitching the prop when friend, EAA Chapter 88 president, and Airbike Ace
Paul Fiebich landed and taxied up. Finished up torquing the prop bolts as
he was getting ready to leave so I followed him out. Now I get 6250 in
climb and 6450 flat out. CHT's are down, EGT's are acceptable and I got 200
more fpm for my effort. Now she climbs at 800 fpm. No free lunch, she's a
68 mph IAS airplane now at 5800 rpm.
But, she's a ball to fly now. I wish she were mine, I know there's 100 lbs.
that could come off her and that would work the same wonders for her that
taking 70 lbs. did for mine.
For those of you out there building, resist the temptation to add, add,
add. As Burt used to tell the LongEZ builders, if you want to add something
to the airplane throw it up in the air. If it comes back down, it's too
heavy. Make 550 lb. the maximum weight you will tolerate. My Mk III at 535
lbs. is a kick to fly. At 610 it was a slug no better than a Cessna 150.
When I rebuild her I am going to get her to 500 lbs. like Homer intended.
We have had the most beautiful January I've ever seen here in Kansas and
I've gotten this Mk IIIX to fly pretty good for a fat girl. :-}
Rick Girard
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 8:56 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Your reply struck a cord with me.Loaded,my MK3 climbs better at
> 2900rpm(jabiru direct drive) than it does at WOT 3150.The amount of stick
> back pressure drops off as well.My heaviest lift off in 75 degrees was
> 1205#@1100 ' msl.
> G.Aman MK3c Jabiru 2200a 670 hrs.
>
>
> Gary A/Kolbers:
>
> Takes HP to keep that high thrust line from pushing us into the ground.
> After many hours flying my MKIII with 80 HP, I was alarmed on my first
> takeoff with the 100 horse. The MKIII didn't want to break ground. I
> backed off the power and she came right up. Didn't take long to readjust
> to
> the bigger engine, and I never had that problem again.
>
> I believe that not only do we have the high thrust line working against us,
> but we also have a less than efficient engine mount configuration. The
> more
> power we have, the more the engine is pushed out of alignment with the
> airframe. Softer Lord Mounts aggravate this condition. I remember flying
> my FS with softer Lord Mounts. On one occasion, at wide open throttle, the
> FS would not accelerate past 65 or 70 mph. Thought I had an engine
> problem.
> I slowly started backed off the throttle. As I did, the airspeed started
> to
> increase. I very slowly increased throttle and airspeed also increased. I
> think the engine power was overpowering the soft Lord Mounts to the point
> of
> kicking the thrust line so far out of alignment it would not fly any
> faster.
> Now I insure I have the hardest Lord Mounts on my MKIII to prevent this
> from
> happening.
>
> I have landed and taken off from 9,927 feet ASL at Leadville, CO, at max
> gross weight. Although the pilot was behind the power curve, the MKIII did
> a good job. There is a big transition for a sea level pilot put into a
> 10,000 foot environment.
>
> Most of my flying out West is around 5,000 feet up to 14,500 feet. The
> 912ULS and the MKIII perform well. Flying out there every day, one soon
> adjusts to high altitude flying.
>
> Also, local flying is done primarily with an empty airplane. When I load
> up
> to take a long cross country it takes a day or two to become adjusted to
> flying a heavy airplane again. Then that becomes normal.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama - Watching the rain drops fall on a warm, wet, and foggy
> Monday morning.
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb Flying High over The Beach Just South of KVNC |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I was sitting on the Florida Golf Beach watching the sunset tonight 1/9/12 and
a Kolb flew over was that you George?
>
And a spectacular sunset it was!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362902#362902
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the additional info on Airglades.
My experience has been that if you listen to Unicom on the way in, you can work
around the jumpers.
As far as the attitude about experimentals, I have heard the same thing. They seem
to prefer general aviation. However, there are at least five hangers in the
hands of experimentals- two drifters, a challenger and a Titan, plus a couple
others.
Can't beat the rent around here if you prefer not to fold.
Finally, there are lots of emergency landing sites in that area, unlike my neck
of the woods...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362912#362912
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ctura(at)politecnica.it> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Messaggio Automatico.
Siamo spiacenti ma la presente casella non pi attiva.
Per comunicazioni si prega di contattare l'arch. Roberta Bassi all'indirizzo rbassi(at)politecnica.it.
Grazie.
Automatic reply.
Sorry, this mailbox is inactive.
Please forward any message to arch. Roberta Bassi at rbassi(at)politecnica.it.
Thank you.
--------
POLITECNICA Ingegneria e Archiettura SOC.COOP
Via Galileo Galilei, 220
41126 Modena
tel.++39059356527
fax.++39059356087
postmaster: postmaster(at)politecnica.it
--------------------------------
Politecnica aderisce al progetto Impatto Zero di LifeGate. Le emissioni di CO2
generate dalla produzione e stampa di tutto il materiale cartaceo sono state compensate
contribuendo alla creazione e tutela di foreste in crescita.
http://www.impattozero.it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Lol; the thought occurred to me that the reason they maybe annoyed with experimentals
is that someone may have rubbed someone the wrong away at some distant
past time, and it started the we are better they they are complex. Jumpers and
experimenters are close in personality traits, both go up not knowing the shape
they will be in when they are back on the ground. Both groups in general like
beer, so buying a beer or maybe Sarsaparilla if they are so inclined may just
get them to decide its better to fly a Kolb, or maybe jump out of one than
kibbitz slights. :-)
Using radios on the Unicom friq in many cases will stop the jumper pilot from getting
ticked off and blaming the "experimental" for delay$ in jump$.
Ron Mason
Still @ KFHU
---- Watkinsdw wrote:
============
Thanks for the additional info on Airglades.
My experience has been that if you listen to Unicom on the way in, you can work
around the jumpers.
As far as the attitude about experimentals, I have heard the same thing. They seem
to prefer general aviation. However, there are at least five hangers in the
hands of experimentals- two drifters, a challenger and a Titan, plus a couple
others.
Can't beat the rent around here if you prefer not to fold.
Finally, there are lots of emergency landing sites in that area, unlike my neck
of the woods...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362912#362912
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | riquenkelly(at)aol.com |
http://www.metronome-studio.com/modules/mod_wdbanners/google.php?image164.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | Martin Koxxy <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com> |
My FBO here was quite frank about it: Certified GA customers tend to buy
his avgas and use his A&P services, so he moves those customers to the top
of his hangar waiting list.
For price comparison: a regular size, fairly new T-hangar would go for $250
to $275 / month, including AC power. 2500' narrow runway (but also no
waiting for clearance!), 30 minutes from downtown Portland, OR.
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>
>
> Lol; the thought occurred to me that the reason they maybe annoyed with
> experimentals is that someone may have rubbed someone the wrong away at
> some distant past time, and it started the we are better they they are
> complex. Jumpers and experimenters are close in personality traits, both go
> up not knowing the shape they will be in when they are back on the ground.
> Both groups in general like beer, so buying a beer or maybe Sarsaparilla if
> they are so inclined may just get them to decide its better to fly a Kolb,
> or maybe jump out of one than kibbitz slights. :-)
>
> Using radios on the Unicom friq in many cases will stop the jumper pilot
> from getting ticked off and blaming the "experimental" for delay$ in jump$.
>
> Ron Mason
> Still @ KFHU
>
>
> ---- Watkinsdw wrote:
>
> ============
>
> Thanks for the additional info on Airglades.
> My experience has been that if you listen to Unicom on the way in, you can
> work around the jumpers.
> As far as the attitude about experimentals, I have heard the same thing.
> They seem to prefer general aviation. However, there are at least five
> hangers in the hands of experimentals- two drifters, a challenger and a
> Titan, plus a couple others.
> Can't beat the rent around here if you prefer not to fold.
> Finally, there are lots of emergency landing sites in that area, unlike my
> neck of the woods...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362912#362912
>
>
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
At 03:58 PM 1/10/2012, Martin Koxxy wrote:
>My FBO here was quite frank about it: Certified GA customers tend to buy
>his avgas and use his A&P services, so he moves those customers to the top
>of his hangar waiting list.
Can't blame him at all...
-Dana
--
Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
koxxy wrote:
> My FBO here was quite frank about it: Certified GA customers tend to buy his
avgas and use his A&P services, so he moves those customers to the top of his
hangar waiting list.
>
That may be illegal. If there is discrimination based on who spends the most money,
the FAA can pull any airport funds that they may be getting. The threat of
that may balance the playing field.
Check out FAR 5190.6, and especially this paragraph:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6/media/5190_6b_chap9.pdf
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363005#363005
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
| From: | Martin Koxxy <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, Richard - I had no idea this is regulated to this degree. I'm not
sure if this particular airport receives federal funding, but it does not
look like that would be a necessary requirement.
In my case, though, I will be dependent on the FBO's help and support, and
I'd hate to jeopardize our otherwise good relationship by filing a
complaint. Besides, I cannot afford the hangar rent anyway. But this is
important information for others looking for a hangar.
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> koxxy wrote:
> > My FBO here was quite frank about it: Certified GA customers tend to buy
> his avgas and use his A&P services, so he moves those customers to the top
> of his hangar waiting list.
> >
>
>
> That may be illegal. If there is discrimination based on who spends the
> most money, the FAA can pull any airport funds that they may be getting.
> The threat of that may balance the playing field.
> Check out FAR 5190.6, and especially this paragraph:
>
> http://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6/media/5190_6b_chap9.pdf
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not
> seen.
> Hebrews 11:1
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363005#363005
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sky Biker <smlplanet(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Yes Airglades does and has gotten federal funding and is run but the count
ry. They are in the process of working to get commerial freight haulers to
use the airport as a hub.
The Gyro club had a leased club house at the La Belle airport which is als
o run by the county. They had they monthy fly-in there for several years.wi
th good turn outs. The county would not renew the lease and tore the buildi
ng down. I might ad the airport board are all older GA and look down on our
type of aircraft. Five or six years ago they was close to 30 UL's and heav
y UL's not including gryo's and now maybe a little more than a hand full be
tween the two airports.
Date: Tue=2C 10 Jan 2012 21:21:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Everglades flight
From: martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com
Thanks=2C Richard - I had no idea this is regulated to this degree. I'm not
sure if this particular airport receives federal funding=2C but it does no
t look like that would be a necessary requirement.
In my case=2C though=2C I will be dependent on the FBO's help and support
=2C and I'd hate to jeopardize our otherwise good relationship by filing a
complaint. Besides=2C I cannot afford the hangar rent anyway. But this is i
mportant information for others looking for a hangar.
On Tue=2C Jan 10=2C 2012 at 6:36 PM=2C Richard Pike
wrote:
koxxy wrote:
> My FBO here was quite frank about it: Certified GA customers tend to buy
his avgas and use his A&P services=2C so he moves those customers to the to
p of his hangar waiting list.
>
That may be illegal. If there is discrimination based on who spends the mos
t money=2C the FAA can pull any airport funds that they may be getting. The
threat of that may balance the playing field.
Check out FAR 5190.6=2C and especially this paragraph:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/orders/compliance_5190_6
/media/5190_6b_chap9.pdf
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport=2C TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for=2C the evidence of things no
t seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363005#363005
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Everglades flight |
Hi,
mixing a/c and parachutists is possible but damn dangerous.
When I was gliding I sometimes trailed to a field about 30 miles away
where a/c, gliders and parachutists all mixed. Everything seemed to be
on a `see and be seen` basis. I never had a call on my glider radio.
There were no ultralights in those days so the a/c, spam cans of various
sorts, tended to do `proper` circuits. Gliders of course crept into the
field at all altitudes and from all directions and were not averse to
trying to scrape away if they found a tickle of `up` while they were on
the approach. It was not unusual to find a Cessna on downwind, a glider
trying to thermal at 400feet on the crosswind leg and a couple of
parachutist dropping into the middle of the whole thing.
All in all an accident waiting to happen. It never did but it was a
close call on several occasions. Luckily the airfield management sold
out to another group and they brought some order to things before there
was a disaster.
I think the next problem the field faced was Madonna, who bought a house
about 5 miles away and wanted to stop `all those noisy little airplanes`
disturbing her beauty sleep. She only occupied the place about 2 days a
year but she was quite happy to have the field closed for her
convenience. She failed but it was a fight.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
What's Kolb-related about this? Where did this come from ? We don't need Spam if
it doesn't come in a can.
On Jan 10, 2012, at 2:00 PM, riquenkelly(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> http://www.metronome-studio.com/modules/mod_wdbanners/google.php?image164.html
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: : Kolb-List: |
- It's a Trojan!- My security system rejected it.
--- On Wed, 1/11/12, russ kinne wrote:
From: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:
Date: Wednesday, January 11, 2012, 2:48 PM
What's Kolb-related about this? Where did this come from ? We don't need Sp
am if it doesn't come in a can.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Autoreply] Re: [Autoreply] |
Re: [Autoreply] Re:
There's a simple fix in any decent email client: mark a few as 'junk' or
'spam' (depending on your email client). Then everything from that
sender will disappear into your junk/spam folder as soon as it comes in.
On 01/12/2012 06:43 PM, russ kinne wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne
>
> STOP SENDING ME THIS!!!!!
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:38 PM, ctura(at)politecnica.it wrote:
>
>> --> Kolb-List message posted by:
>>
>> Messaggio Automatico.
>> Siamo spiacenti ma la presente casella non pi attiva.
>> Per comunicazioni si prega di contattare l'arch. Roberta Bassi all'indirizzo
rbassi(at)politecnica.it.
>> Grazie.
>>
>> Automatic reply.
>> Sorry, this mailbox is inactive.
>> Please forward any message to arch. Roberta Bassi at rbassi(at)politecnica.it.
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> --------
>> POLITECNICA Ingegneria e Archiettura SOC.COOP
>> Via Galileo Galilei, 220
>> 41126 Modena
>>
>> tel.++39059356527
>> fax.++39059356087
>>
>> postmaster: postmaster(at)politecnica.it
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------
>> Politecnica aderisce al progetto Impatto Zero di LifeGate. Le emissioni di CO2
generate dalla produzione e stampa di tutto il materiale cartaceo sono state
compensate contribuendo alla creazione e tutela di foreste in crescita.
>>
>> http://www.impattozero.it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Postmortem - List Melt Down Thursday 01/12/12... |
Dear listers,
My apologies. I thought that I had caught the auto-responder from "ctura(at)politecnica.it"
first thing this morning and had unsubscribed the email address
from the List. I wasn't seeing anymore posts coming in my email throughout the
morning and felt proud of myself for having caught the outbreak early.
Then about 5pm I thought it seemed kind of strange that I hadn't been getting my
normal amount of List mail from the Kolb and other lists throughout the day.
I went back and looked at my logs and realized that I had removed *MY* email
address from all the lists instead of ctura(at)politecnica.it"! What a dork!
Hey, I've had the flu all week!
Anyway, I've removed the correct address from the List and have gone back and cleaned
all of the archives, digest, listbrowse and web forums of all the bogus
email so, other than your respective email boxes, things should be back to "normal".
What was going on is that the email address "ctura(at)politecnica.it" was subscribed
to the Kolb-List, but the account had been closed early this morning. Every
time a post was made to the Kolb-List, the auto responder at politecnica.it
would send another email back to the list saying the account was closed. Then
the auto-responder would see its own message coming back from the List and
dutifully send another response. Every time someone posted another message to
the list with "STOP ALL THESE MESSAGES" (or whatever), it would start another
thread of responses from the auto-responder, exponentially increasing the number
of messages being forwarded and send. This would go on until, I guess, the
world exploded. The Mayans were right, the end of the world did arrive in
2012. 327 email messages was all it took to knock the earth off its axis...
"politecnica.it"'s auto-responder is broken; it should only send a single
copy of "this user doesn't exist" to a given source email address. Had it
functioned this way, there would have been only one message to the List and
people would have mostly not noticed.
Sorry for the hassle.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Postmortem - List Melt Down Thursday 01/12/12... |
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com> |
Matt,
Thank you for the Kolb list fix.
Keep up the good work. It is much appreciated.
Gene Z
On Jan 12, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Dear listers,
>
> My apologies. I thought that I had caught the auto-responder from "ctura(at)politecnica.it"
first thing this morning and had unsubscribed the email address
from the List. I wasn't seeing anymore posts coming in my email throughout
the morning and felt proud of myself for having caught the outbreak early.
>
> Then about 5pm I thought it seemed kind of strange that I hadn't been getting
my normal amount of List mail from the Kolb and other lists throughout the day.
I went back and looked at my logs and realized that I had removed *MY* email
address from all the lists instead of ctura(at)politecnica.it"! What a dork!
Hey, I've had the flu all week!
>
> Anyway, I've removed the correct address from the List and have gone back and
cleaned all of the archives, digest, listbrowse and web forums of all the bogus
email so, other than your respective email boxes, things should be back to
"normal".
>
> What was going on is that the email address "ctura(at)politecnica.it" was subscribed
to the Kolb-List, but the account had been closed early this morning.
Every time a post was made to the Kolb-List, the auto responder at politecnica.it
would send another email back to the list saying the account was closed.
Then the auto-responder would see its own message coming back from the List and
dutifully send another response. Every time someone posted another message
to the list with "STOP ALL THESE MESSAGES" (or whatever), it would start another
thread of responses from the auto-responder, exponentially increasing the
number of messages being forwarded and send. This would go on until, I guess,
the world exploded. The Mayans were right, the end of the world did arrive in
2012. 327 email messages was all it took to knock the earth off its axis...
"politecnica.it"'s auto-responder is broken; it should only send a single
copy of "this user doesn't exist" to a given so!
> urce email address. Had it functioned this way, there would have been only one
message to the List and people would have mostly not noticed.
>
> Sorry for the hassle.
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Admin
>
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | 581 Jeannie Way | Livermore | CA | 94550
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
testing to see if Kolb list is working.....jim
Jim Swan Kolb Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi
48827 ph 517-663-8488 GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: email test |
- It works.
--- On Fri, 1/13/12, Arksey(at)aol.com wrote:
From: Arksey(at)aol.com <Arksey(at)aol.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: RE: email test
Date: Friday, January 13, 2012, 12:14 PM
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0Atesting to see if Kolb list is working.....jim =0A-=0AJi
m Swan Kolb =0AFirestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi 4
8827 ph 517-663-8488 =0AGPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg =0A44
===================0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
OK, this something I've been wondering about.
My Mk IIIC has gross weight listed in the log book and the ID plate as 1050.
Eventually, I'd like to add an amphib system. Empty weight is 590 lbs., and a Full
Lotus system plus 10 to 15 gallons of fuel starts to add up fast.
I weigh in at about 195. I think the 912S will handle a bit more, but wonder how
to avoid making a really expensive single place Kolb.
(My wife would kinda like to come along...)
How do I increase the official GW? Any other suggestions on this fantasy?
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363639#363639
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Dave, I actually asked this very question of my local FAA guy at the FSDO.
The answer is pretty simple, you redo all your testing at the new gross
weight, make a logbook entry to that effect and you're done.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Watkinsdw wrote:
>
> OK, this something I've been wondering about.
> My Mk IIIC has gross weight listed in the log book and the ID plate as
> 1050.
> Eventually, I'd like to add an amphib system. Empty weight is 590 lbs.,
> and a Full Lotus system plus 10 to 15 gallons of fuel starts to add up fast.
> I weigh in at about 195. I think the 912S will handle a bit more, but
> wonder how to avoid making a really expensive single place Kolb.
> (My wife would kinda like to come along...)
> How do I increase the official GW? Any other suggestions on this fantasy?
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363639#363639
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb list Malware ? |
| From: | russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> |
Ron
I have the same problem, apparently stopped for now. Dunno what it is.
Russ K
On Jan 12, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>
>
> ---- John Hauck wrote:
>
> ============
>
> Block him.
> He also gave in his auto reply his new email, to which I told him to delete his
email address,
>
>
> Ron & KFHU
> ==============
>
>
> Gene Z/Kolbers:
>
> First thing I did when I started getting the emails was forward a copy to
> Matt. No reply from him, so sent the second msg. Still no contact with
> Matt.
>
> Darn things are eating up my email service.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eugene Zimmerman
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:00 PM
> To: Kolb list; Matt Dralle
> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb list Malware ?
>
> Today I'm getting hundreds of messages from
>
> From:
> ctura(at)politecnica.it
> Subject:
> [Autoreply] Re: Re: Kolb-List:
>
>
> --------.
> Anyone else have this problem?
>
>
> Matt,
>
> I'm forwarding several of them to you directly including full headers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> kugelair.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
Dave
You have done well to keep the empty weight down to 590. I understand you
want to increase the gross weight. Engine power isn't the limiting factor
and the FAA isn't either. The important part is the air frame. The factory
publishes the gross weight as 1000lbs. They do allow some margin extra and
I for one have increased my MKIIIC to1050lbs. I also make a point of flying
only in smooth air when near the 1050lbs. limit. At least one of our group
has registered and flown at 1200lbs but he did beef up the wings to be able
to safely do this. Does your plane have all those modifications? That pilot
is also the test pilot on that plane every time he flies at those weights.
Do you KNOW what is the limit is in your plane? Do you want to test this
with your wife on board? Do you have a ballistic chute? What is the cost of
a air frame failure?
Food for thought.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Dave, I actually asked this very question of my local FAA guy at the FSDO.
> The answer is pretty simple, you redo all your testing at the new gross
> weight, make a logbook entry to that effect and you're done.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Watkinsdw wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, this something I've been wondering about.
>> My Mk IIIC has gross weight listed in the log book and the ID plate as
>> 1050.
>> Eventually, I'd like to add an amphib system. Empty weight is 590 lbs.,
>> and a Full Lotus system plus 10 to 15 gallons of fuel starts to add up fast.
>> I weigh in at about 195. I think the 912S will handle a bit more, but
>> wonder how to avoid making a really expensive single place Kolb.
>> (My wife would kinda like to come along...)
>> How do I increase the official GW? Any other suggestions on this fantasy?
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363639#363639
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
At least one of our group has registered and flown at 1200lbs but he did
beef up the wings to be able to safely do this. Does your plane have all
those modifications? That pilot is also the test pilot on that plane every
time he flies atthoseweights.
Rick Neilsen
Rick N/Kolbers:
If that test pilot makes it until 15 March 2012, he will have flown more
than a quarter million miles and 3,100.0 plus hours during the past 20
years. Almost 2,000.0 hours and 160,000 miles of that cross country, at or
close to max gross weight of 1,200 lbs.
He may be out of the test phase by now.
The old MKIII still has a ways to go to catch his 1992 Dodge/Cummins with
388,000 plus miles and 6,500.0+ hours in 20 years.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
but wonder how to avoid making a really expensive single place Kolb.
(My wife would kinda like to come along...)
Looks as if you are planning a really expensive one place, or maybe two
place grave.
You will need a lot of beefing up backed up by a lot of knowledge. Never
mind the legality think of airframe stresses.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | "Watkinsdw" <david.watkins0(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks, guys,
I'd be interested in knowing what airframe changes would make it safer.
I've see Mk III's at S&F with floats, and would like to be able to take advantage
of all the lakes and rivers in S. FL.
Maybe Bryan is my best source for technical advice on this.
I do have a BRS and would like to keep the wife. We're going on 25 years, and I'm
almost off probation!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363716#363716
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
Dave,
I've passed the 40 year mark, and I'm pretty sure you never get off probation.
Mike Welch
On Jan 14, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Watkinsdw wrote:
>
> Thanks, guys,
> I'd be interested in knowing what airframe changes would make it safer.
> I've see Mk III's at S&F with floats, and would like to be able to take advantage
of all the lakes and rivers in S. FL.
> Maybe Bryan is my best source for technical advice on this.
> I do have a BRS and would like to keep the wife. We're going on 25 years, and
I'm almost off probation!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363716#363716
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
When Rotax sets limits for the difference of temperature allowable between cylinders,
Im pretty sure they are figuring on both pistons being the same size (Krauts
are like that) A larger than normal temperature difference in an engine
with matching pistons could indicate a problem However, in an engine with different
sized pistons, perhaps this temperature difference should simply be expected.
Comments?
--------
Henry
Henry V/Kolbers:
This is the difference in size between your two pistons:
0.0004 inch
I doubt 4/10,000 inch will make a whole lot of difference. The 447 is not a watch.
Austrian standards are not that tight on 447 engines. Most of the temp
difference is probably difference in port size and shape, and other differences
in air and fuel flow. They don't do a good job of matching them with the cast
iron sleeves.
What are the difference in size of bore of the cylinders? Are they within 4/10,000
inch?
How accurate and repeatable is your instrumentation? I've seen Kolbers ruin their
flying experience because they couldn't get a couple of Westach gauges to
agree. Spent more time trying to get everything to match precisely than getting
out there and having fun flying.
If it was mine, I'd take the warmer temps from the hotter cyl for operating limits,
fly and enjoy.
I was told by an old time engine builder, that matched the ports and balanced my
pistons, pins, and rings, on my 447's, "a little carbon is needed on the tops
of the pistons to help lower operating temps of the piston." Carbon acts as
an insulator.
BTW: I had good luck with my 447's. I had two, one on the Firestar and one on
the bench ready to go. Balancing and matching ports made the 447 produce more
power and reduced vibration.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - 20F at hauck's holler this morning. Ain't going flying today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
I'd be interested in knowing what airframe changes would make it safer.
David Watkins
David W/Kolbers:
I think Rick N was referring to me when he spoke of a test pilot and a 1200
lb max gross weight MKIII.
To answer your question, we didn't do anything to the airframe to beef it
up. My MKIII airframe was built at the old Kolb Factory in January and
February 1991, by me and Brother Jim Hauck. We did make some changes to the
airframe and other components, but not to increase max gross weight
capability. Each was blessed each morning when Homer Kolb came to work.
Many of these changes were incorporated in the MKIII kits. This was during
the time the first 12 MKIII airframes were being built and prior to shipment
of the first MKIII Kit, Number 1, to Rudy Doctor. My airframe is Number 11.
Most of you MKIII builders and flyers don't know that a lot of the
components and changes to the original MKIII Kit were designed and
fabricated by my Brother Jim Hauck, with a little help from his little
Brother, me.
I did add additional lateral bracing to the wings, and reinforced the noses
of all 10 ribs and the tails of the first four outboard ribs on each wing
panel. This was done in anticipation of winds and weather I would encounter
on my 1994 flight around CONUS and up to the North Slope of Alaska. The
changes to the ribs were per a plans sheet by Dennis Souder to reinforce the
outboard wing rib of all kits to help prevent damage during wing folding and
handling.
Other mods, moving main gear forward, etc., had nothing to do with
increasing the gross weight capability of my MKIII. The standard MKIII is
overbuilt (my opinion).
We did little things like increase bolt sizes from 5/16" to 3/8" for the
inboard main spar attachment to the fuselage. Not much else.
I don't recommend anyone change the gross weight of the MKIII without
coordinating with Kolb Aircraft and other proper procedures with the FAA.
Again, my MKIII was built and changes blessed by Homer Kolb, placarded for
1,200 lbs max gross weight, which is indicated on my Airworthiness
Certificate. It has been thoroughly tested and proved to be a tremendous
little airplane. I had no idea Miss P'fer ("P" fer plane) would ever
accomplish the flights she has made the last 20 years. She sits patiently
in the old sagging T hanger at Gantt International Airport, ready and
willing to go anywhere I am courageous enough to point her.
I think if you contact Bryan, he will tell you your MKIII will be able to
haul floats and a passenger. It has been done in the past.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
At 11:58 PM 1/13/2012, Rick Neilsen wrote:
>You have done well to keep the empty weight down to 590. I understand you
>want to increase the gross weight. Engine power isn't the limiting factor
>and the FAA isn't either. The important part is the air frame. The factory
>publishes the gross weight as 1000lbs. They do allow some margin extra and
>I for one have increased my MKIIIC to1050lbs. I also make a point of
>flying only in smooth air when near the 1050lbs. limit...
There's a simple relationship (at least in theory) between gross weight and
load factor. If, for example, the aircraft was designed to the utility
category limit load factor of 4.4g positive, increasing the gross weight
from 1000 to 1200 lbs reduced your load factor to 3.66, or a bit less than
the normal category limit of 3.8. Fly the airplane gently in smooth air
and you'll have no problem... but you _are_ pushing the limit of parameters
that were created for a reason.
Many aircraft are certificated to normal category with full load and
utility category with a reduced load.
Now, I don't know what actual load factor the MKIII was designed
to (anybody?). In reality, there will likely be one point of the
structure that is the weakest link and other areas may well be
stronger. Beefing up that weak link may allow it to carry more load, until
some other weak link fails. To know for sure requires knowledge of the
actual design numbers. You might, for example, beef up the one critical
point to be 20% stronger only to have something else fail at only 10% over
the max. Or the plane may already be overbuilt; planes often are, to take
advantage of readily available materials instead of using the smallest
possible size. John's example shows that 1200# is possible for one
particular well built and well maintained aircraft.
Performance issues are another story. Add weight and climb gets worse,
stall speed and fuel consumption increase, etc. A friend of mine put
floats (of course there's a drag issue there too) on a 503 powered FSII,
and what had been a plane with sparkling performance turned into one that
flew, in his words, "like a cinder block".
-Dana
--
A tree: first you chop it down, then you chop it up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
- Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart?- Las
t I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock fa
ctory Warp Drive.
-------------------------
-------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------- Windsor Locks,
Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------- FS 447, Warp D
rive prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
John I didn't mean to infer that your plane is unsafe but by definition you
are still the test pilot. I felt very comfortable flying in it with you
except for maybe one of those high banked turns around a monument
at Monument Valley.
The point is our planes were design to fly with a maximum gross weight of
1000lbs with a safety margin. The designer tried to have a margin to allow
for some poor workman ship, age, long term air frame stress, corrosion etc.
I talked at length with Dennis Souder the structural engineer for the
MKIIIC and he would not budge on the 1000lb. limit. He indicated there is
more safety margin on the MKIII than any other Kolb but..... I have also
read crash investigation reports where intended structural improvements
actually weaken the air frame or moved the stress to a place that wasn't up
to the task. John seems to have built his plane in a way the survives but?
Some airplanes have hour limits before they need to be rebuilt, is that
from structural failures of is it calculated?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
> Rick N/Kolbers:
>
> If that test pilot makes it until 15 March 2012, he will have flown more
> than a quarter million miles and 3,100.0 plus hours during the past 20
> years. Almost 2,000.0 hours and 160,000 miles of that cross country, at or
> close to max gross weight of 1,200 lbs.
>
> He may be out of the test phase by now.
>
> The old MKIII still has a ways to go to catch his 1992 Dodge/Cummins with
> 388,000 plus miles and 6,500.0+ hours in 20 years.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
Interesting stuff , John....
My MkIII was built in Montana or the Dakotas,,there bouts, by a
couple of fellows.. It had golf cart size tires and heavy steel gear
legs...that were not very well tempered... It weighted 490 some odd
pounds...with a 532 and three blade IVO... Herb
At 08:17 AM 1/14/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>I'd be interested in knowing what airframe changes would make it safer.
>
>David Watkins
>
>
>David W/Kolbers:
>
>I think Rick N was referring to me when he spoke of a test pilot and a 1200
>lb max gross weight MKIII.
>
>To answer your question, we didn't do anything to the airframe to beef it
>up. My MKIII airframe was built at the old Kolb Factory in January and
>February 1991, by me and Brother Jim Hauck. We did make some changes to the
>airframe and other components, but not to increase max gross weight
>capability. Each was blessed each morning when Homer Kolb came to work.
>Many of these changes were incorporated in the MKIII kits. This was during
>the time the first 12 MKIII airframes were being built and prior to shipment
>of the first MKIII Kit, Number 1, to Rudy Doctor. My airframe is Number 11.
>
>
>Most of you MKIII builders and flyers don't know that a lot of the
>components and changes to the original MKIII Kit were designed and
>fabricated by my Brother Jim Hauck, with a little help from his little
>Brother, me.
>
>I did add additional lateral bracing to the wings, and reinforced the noses
>of all 10 ribs and the tails of the first four outboard ribs on each wing
>panel. This was done in anticipation of winds and weather I would encounter
>on my 1994 flight around CONUS and up to the North Slope of Alaska. The
>changes to the ribs were per a plans sheet by Dennis Souder to reinforce the
>outboard wing rib of all kits to help prevent damage during wing folding and
>handling.
>
>Other mods, moving main gear forward, etc., had nothing to do with
>increasing the gross weight capability of my MKIII. The standard MKIII is
>overbuilt (my opinion).
>
>We did little things like increase bolt sizes from 5/16" to 3/8" for the
>inboard main spar attachment to the fuselage. Not much else.
>
>I don't recommend anyone change the gross weight of the MKIII without
>coordinating with Kolb Aircraft and other proper procedures with the FAA.
>
>Again, my MKIII was built and changes blessed by Homer Kolb, placarded for
>1,200 lbs max gross weight, which is indicated on my Airworthiness
>Certificate. It has been thoroughly tested and proved to be a tremendous
>little airplane. I had no idea Miss P'fer ("P" fer plane) would ever
>accomplish the flights she has made the last 20 years. She sits patiently
>in the old sagging T hanger at Gantt International Airport, ready and
>willing to go anywhere I am courageous enough to point her.
>
>I think if you contact Bryan, he will tell you your MKIII will be able to
>haul floats and a passenger. It has been done in the past.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
At 10:02 AM 1/14/2012, Rick Neilsen wrote:
>Some airplanes have hour limits before they need to be rebuilt, is that
>from structural failures of is it calculated?
Metal fatigues, and the fatigue behavior is predictable. This can be used
to set life limits, for a specific number of load/unload cycles. The
numbers, of course, are adjusted if problems are found during
inspections. Light planes rarely reach the number of cycles that airliners
do.
-Dana
--
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the
target.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
| From: | "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com> |
Did you swap EGT probes? if so was the PTO reading still high? During reassembly
did you align the cylinder intake manifold surfaces, check the intake manifold
with a straight edge, do a post repair pressure test? Remember unlike a 4
stroke a 2 stroke can leak unmetered air almost anywhere but the exhaust port.
a small bit of old base gasket left behind can cause a lean condition.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363741#363741
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beauford " <beauford173(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
Brother Voris:
Your temps, as shown in your nifty spread sheet, show deltas on both EGT and CHT
which closely resemble mine, but
the overall range of yours, is a little cooler. My engine has had two green dot
pistons installed about 130 hours ago and I just had it torn down and inspected
last month out of suspicion that the crankcase seals were leaking. Nothing
significant was found, although one wrist pin was replaced as an "option" since
it displayed minor wear. Both con rod top ends and wrist pins showed some
bluing which reflected the high temps for which the 447 is well known.
For what it's worth, the rear (PTO end) cylinder on mine has always run around
25 to 30 hotter on CHT and 40 to 60 degrees hotter on EGT. I worried about that
for a while... played games with minor adjustments of the angle of the Bing
on the manifold, repeatedly checking fan belt/shroud, tinkered with jetting and
needle, etc. Finally decided
to hell with it and just flew it. The CHT's were in the 380 to 405 range at WOT
and the EGT's ran 1040 to 1100
at 5800 cruise.
Since the teardown inspection, head temps and EGTs have jumped up and I can't figure
out why. At WOT climb after about 45 seconds the rear cylinder is climbing
through the red line at 425 and the front is right behind it at about 415...
I have to throttle back and level off or they would continue to increase.
The EGT's are also higher and now show 1100 and 1150 at 5,800 cruise with the
heads hanging around 400. The plugs are both a nice brown color. I have run
it a total of about three hours since the teardown am about ready to re-torque
the heads.
Other than the new wrist pin and all of the gaskets and seals, nothing was changed
in the engine. The work was done by an experienced, certified shop in which
I have confidence. The jets and needle in the Bing are stock sizes and show
no wear. The IVO is loaded to the same 6000 RPM static as before. I went so
far as to replace all four of the EIS sensor probes to make sure they were giving
accurate data... They are. I am baffled by the increased temps.
Overall, Henry, yours looks to be running cooler than mine. Personally, I would
settle for your temps and just go fly it, watching the plug color for anything
strange.
My engine, on the other hand, definitely has a newly developed higher temp problem
which requires attention... In the absence of any better idea, I am going
to start with further searches for leaks in the manifolds and then move into
the Bing jetting and setting business...
If anyone on the List has experienced similar high temp fun & games with a 447
and successfully whipped the problem, (or blew/burned it up, but executed a successful
autopsy) I would appreciate hearing from you.
Baffled beauford in Brandon
FF-076
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Kolb-List: He assumed I knew what I was doing...
Cylinder #1, Closest to the alternator, 67.46, green dot
Cylinder #2, Closest to the PTO, 67.45, red dot
In reviewing the spreadsheet It appears that each piston is operating within the
temperature limits set by the factory for operation. The problem is the temperature
difference between cylinder #1 and #2.
When Rotax sets limits for the difference of temperature allowable between cylinders,
Im pretty sure they are figuring on both pistons being the same size (Krauts
are like that) A larger than normal temperature difference in an engine
with matching pistons could indicate a problem However, in an engine with different
sized pistons, perhaps this temperature difference should simply be expected.
Comments?
--------
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Beauford, Do you have spark plug ring temp senders? If so, polish them up
with Scotchbrite and do the surface of the head where the sender seats,
making sure any debris doesn't go down the plug hole, of course. The
senders work on resistance so any corrosion on them or the head will affect
their readings. Just a thought.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Beauford wrote:
>
> Brother Voris:
>
> Your temps, as shown in your nifty spread sheet, show deltas on both EGT
> and CHT which closely resemble mine, but
> the overall range of yours, is a little cooler. My engine has had two
> green dot pistons installed about 130 hours ago and I just had it torn do
wn
> and inspected last month out of suspicion that the crankcase seals were
> leaking. Nothing significant was found, although one wrist pin was
> replaced as an "option" since it displayed minor wear. Both con rod top
> ends and wrist pins showed some bluing which reflected the high temps for
> which the 447 is well known.
>
> For what it's worth, the rear (PTO end) cylinder on mine has always run
> around 25 to 30 hotter on CHT and 40 to 60 degrees hotter on EGT. I
> worried about that for a while... played games with minor adjustments of
> the angle of the Bing on the manifold, repeatedly checking fan belt/shrou
d,
> tinkered with jetting and needle, etc. Finally decided
> to hell with it and just flew it. The CHT's were in the 380 to 405 range
> at WOT and the EGT's ran 1040 to 1100
> at 5800 cruise.
>
> Since the teardown inspection, head temps and EGTs have jumped up and I
> can't figure out why. At WOT climb after about 45 seconds the rear
> cylinder is climbing through the red line at 425 and the front is right
> behind it at about 415... I have to throttle back and level off or they
> would continue to increase. The EGT's are also higher and now show 1100
> and 1150 at 5,800 cruise with the heads hanging around 400. The plugs ar
e
> both a nice brown color. I have run it a total of about three hours sinc
e
> the teardown am about ready to re-torque the heads.
>
> Other than the new wrist pin and all of the gaskets and seals, nothing wa
s
> changed in the engine. The work was done by an experienced, certified sh
op
> in which I have confidence. The jets and needle in the Bing are stock
> sizes and show no wear. The IVO is loaded to the same 6000 RPM static as
> before. I went so far as to replace all four of the EIS sensor probes to
> make sure they were giving accurate data... They are. I am baffled by t
he
> increased temps.
>
> Overall, Henry, yours looks to be running cooler than mine. Personally,
I
> would settle for your temps and just go fly it, watching the plug color f
or
> anything strange.
>
> My engine, on the other hand, definitely has a newly developed higher tem
p
> problem which requires attention... In the absence of any better idea,
I
> am going to start with further searches for leaks in the manifolds and th
en
> move into the Bing jetting and setting business...
>
> If anyone on the List has experienced similar high temp fun & games with
a
> 447 and successfully whipped the problem, (or blew/burned it up, but
> executed a successful autopsy) I would appreciate hearing from you.
>
> Baffled beauford in Brandon
> FF-076
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: He assumed I knew what I was doing...
>
>
> Cylinder #1, Closest to the alternator, 67.46, green dot
> Cylinder #2, Closest to the PTO, 67.45, red dot
>
> In reviewing the spreadsheet It appears that each piston is oper
ating
> within the temperature limits set by the factory for operation. The probl
em
> is the temperature difference between cylinder #1 and #2.
> When Rotax sets limits for the difference of temperature allowable betwee
n
> cylinders, I=99m pretty sure they are figuring on both pistons bein
g the
> same size (Krauts are like that) A larger than normal t
emperature
> difference in an engine with matching pistons could indicate a problem
> However, in an engine with different sized pistons, perhaps this
> temperature difference should simply be expected.
>
> Comments?
>
> --------
> Henry
> Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their designs,
and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would have used
a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry standard) so the
ultimate load would be 6 g's.
Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no
deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a
fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your
chances of hitting it are slim and nil.
Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not
down.
Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for 4g's
with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+ VW
with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb.
I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the low
teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I
worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I
do about limit load.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 10:02 AM 1/14/2012, Rick Neilsen wrote:
>
> Some airplanes have hour limits before they need to be rebuilt, is that
> from structural failures of is it calculated?
>
>
> Metal fatigues, and the fatigue behavior is predictable. This can be used
> to set life limits, for a specific number of load/unload cycles. The
> numbers, of course, are adjusted if problems are found during inspections.
> Light planes rarely reach the number of cycles that airliners do.
>
> -Dana
> --
> To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit
> the target.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
At 12:40 PM 1/14/2012, Richard Girard wrote:
>Beauford, Do you have spark plug ring temp senders? If so, polish them up
>with Scotchbrite and do the surface of the head where the sender seats,
>making sure any debris doesn't go down the plug hole, of course. The
>senders work on resistance so any corrosion on them or the head will
>affect their readings. Just a thought.
The typical self powered spark plug ring sensor is a thermocouple, not a
resistance device.
-Dana
--
Don't ever think you know what's right for the other person. He might start
thinking he knows what's right for you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
It may have had more to do with the Rotax 65hp 582 than anything else.... ?
Ron Mason
KFHU
==================
---- Rick Neilsen wrote:
============
John I didn't mean to infer that your plane is unsafe but by definition you
are still the test pilot. I felt very comfortable flying in it with you
except for maybe one of those high banked turns around a monument
at Monument Valley.
The point is our planes were design to fly with a maximum gross weight of
1000lbs with a safety margin. The designer tried to have a margin to allow
for some poor workman ship, age, long term air frame stress, corrosion etc.
I talked at length with Dennis Souder the structural engineer for the
MKIIIC and he would not budge on the 1000lb. limit. He indicated there is
more safety margin on the MKIII than any other Kolb but..... I have also
read crash investigation reports where intended structural improvements
actually weaken the air frame or moved the stress to a place that wasn't up
to the task. John seems to have built his plane in a way the survives but?
Some airplanes have hour limits before they need to be rebuilt, is that
from structural failures of is it calculated?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
> Rick N/Kolbers:
>
> If that test pilot makes it until 15 March 2012, he will have flown more
> than a quarter million miles and 3,100.0 plus hours during the past 20
> years. Almost 2,000.0 hours and 160,000 miles of that cross country, at or
> close to max gross weight of 1,200 lbs.
>
> He may be out of the test phase by now.
>
> The old MKIII still has a ways to go to catch his 1992 Dodge/Cummins with
> 388,000 plus miles and 6,500.0+ hours in 20 years.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
--
kugelair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
| From: | "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com> |
I would strongly recommend a pressure/ vac. test during condition inspection, anytime
you have unexplained variations in EGTs , and post repair. Even a good
mechanic can make a mistake or install a defective part. A seal may become nicked
on assembly, a bit of debris may be left on a mating surface or a small void
in sealer may occur. Personally I do not even accept the allowed 1 psi per
minute drop, the tighter they are the better they start and run. A pressure test
will uncover problems with seals, crankcase seal, gaskets and porous castings.
A 4 stroke with a leaky crank seal or case makes a mess but a 2 stroke dies
a horrible death.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363753#363753
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp
drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop W
ho do they think they are using the public as
a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on
there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the FAA h
as told me
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart? Last I
remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factor
y Warp Drive.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, Warp Drive prop
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
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-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Testing gross weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Finished the weight testing of the aircraft this afternoon. I started with
one 80 lb. bag and worked up to three for a gross weight of 1201 lb. I flew
one take off and a full stop landing with each and then one more flight
with three bags to 3000' AGL to test the approach stall at that weight.
Take off roll on grass was roughly 1000'. At the end of the runway I had
300' of altitude. After that climb rate dropped to 300 to 400 feet per
minute with the engine turning at 6400 rpm. I also evaluated cruise speed
at that gross weight. At 5800 rpm the airplane can maintain level flight at
60 mph IAS. The stall occurred at 46 mph with a distinct break without wing
drop. I held the aircraft in stalling attitude for approximately five
seconds. According to my variometer the descent rate was 1500 fpm or more
(that's the end of its scale). Recovery required only relaxing the back
pressure on the stick and she resumed flying. The rest of the flight was a
pretty leisurely descent with the engine turning 4500 rpm to keep its heat
up (it was 52 degrees at flight time). I shot the approach at 65 to 70
until I was into ground affect then let it settle at 60 until round out. So
it can be done, but I wouldn't want to do it if the air temperature was
much over 70 or the thermals were normal Kansas strength.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
May be old news?
http://www.ultralightnews.com/
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm
Herb
At 05:25 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote:
>Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is
>a Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
>I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that
>Prop Who do they think they are using the public as
>a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin
>out on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
>the first time this has happened to one of there props from what
>the FAA has told me
>
>
>Ellery Batchelder Jr.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
>To: kolb list
>Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
>Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
>
> Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came
> apart? Last I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or
> not it was a stock factory Warp Drive.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
> FS 447, Warp Drive prop
>
>
>get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>p://forums.matronics.com
>blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey Folks:
The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were
let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook
about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and
that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see
the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff
that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and
airplanes that make my world go around.
Oh well, nothing new, really.
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Ellery, Do you have the NTSB report #?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote:
> Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp
> drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
> I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop
> Who do they think they are using the public as
> a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on
> there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
> the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the FAA
> has told me
>
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
> To: kolb list
> Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
> Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
>
> Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart?
> Last I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock
> factory Warp Drive.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
> FS 447, Warp Drive prop
>
> *
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
ERA11LA150
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery, Do you have the NTSB report #?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr
wrote:
Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp
drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop W
ho do they think they are using the public as
a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on
there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the FAA h
as told me
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart? Last I
remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factor
y Warp Drive.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, Warp Drive prop
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
The =9CFull Narrative=9D doesn=99t go into much
detail, but the fact that all three blades showed chordwise cracks as an
apparent combination of fatigue and static overload I would think would
be a real concern. The lab report didn=99t say so, but one
would assume that is the precursor for the delams and eventual shedding
of parts. The report has one phrase about =9Cbending forward
under airload.=9D??? Some of the Warp hubs had the crack problem
a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades pretty
much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary likely
scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, something in
this particular configuration caused higher inplane loads than normal
and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certified world there would be
a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers calculating
coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order of magnitude more
expensive strain gaged flight test.
One would hope that if there are other instances of
=9Ctransverse=9D cracks in the trailing edges of similar
blades, then that information would be quickly shared regarding types of
aircraft and engine, time in service, etc. ...
Bob
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
ERA11LA150
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery, Do you have the NTSB report #?
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr
wrote:
Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a
Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that
Prop Who do they think they are using the public as
a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin
out on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the
FAA has told me
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
To: kolb list
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came
apart? Last I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it
was a stock factory Warp Drive.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, Warp Drive
prop
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotax provision |
Hi,
my Challenger had a belt drive and I assume that they are all the same .
Talk to an owner.
There were no problems with the engine but I did have a couple of belts
go sick on me
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a member
since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about
"Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super
Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure."
It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh.
Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our end
of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363821#363821
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com> |
Remember the land grab 15 or 20 years ago. I knew then something was rotten at
EAA. That was followed by years of telling us to support the LSA proposal, we
were supposed to be able to buy a new plane for the cost of a mid sized sedan.
They never mentioned that sedan was a high end BMW. Like so many organizations
with noble beginnings EAA is now all about self promotion and money. The only
reason I remain a member is the local chapter which is a good group of people.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363823#363823
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
The Full Narrative doesnt go into much detail
Bob
Kolbers:
Be interesting to know the history of Ellery's Warp Drive Prop. Wasn't it one
of the first generation Warps? or very early on in WD's history?
I have flown WD props since 1993 on my 582, 912UL, and 912ULS. All have had the
HP Hub. That hub has been upgraded several times since I got my first one.
Direct drive engines had problems with WD props because of the lack of torsional
vibration dampening, if I recall correctly.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
They got fat under the tutelage of "little Tommy" as I
disrespectfully like to call him...:-) They are not immune to the
economy either...To survive, they will reach out to whomever offers
them some crumbs..
I think we all know that Experimental Aviation grew as an offshoot
of the boomers and their parents from WWII.. It is now under the
auspices of those who grew up in front of a tv playing games or
watching Sesame Street..
Whole different mind set...Glass cockpits...100k planes...etc..
lots of neat gadgets...weather on your cell
phone...good stuff....that most of us cannot afford..
It is going to be interesting to watch their outreach to the
grass roots...even ultra lite owners...:-) Where ever they think
there is a buck... Wonder if they know how to stoop that low?? :-)
Herb
At 09:27 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote:
>Hey Folks:
>
>The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were
>let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook
>about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and
>that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see
>the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff
>that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and
>airplanes that make my world go around.
>
>Oh well, nothing new, really.
>
>Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
>Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
>LSRM-A, PPC, WS
>Great Sails - Sailmaker
>for Ultralight & Light Sport
>(989)513-3022
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
-----Original Message-----
You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this
last year, been a member since 1980, but EAA was no long
about "Experimental" aircraft, but about "Recreational"
aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to
Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming
to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when
it was just Oshkosh.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolbers:
Been a member since 1984.
A couple reasons I remain active:
-To belong to my EAA Chapter 822.
-A requirement for Falcon Insurance for the old MKIII.
In the old days, I used to read the Experimenter and UL
Flying from cover to cover. After 20 years I dropped UL
Flying. I still get Sport Aviation because that is part of
the EAA membership. However, I have difficulty finding much
of anything of interest to me.
It's hard to get as big as EAA, with all that money, power,
and prestige involved, and still be in business for most of
us, the little guys. Honestly, I don't think EAA ever
accepted us, but grudgeonly tolerated us. I have to ignore
the elite looking down their noses at anyone associated with
ultralights. Many years ago when I built my MKIII and got
an N number, I would quickly correct anyone who referred to
Miss P'fer as an ultralight with, "Not an ultralight. See
the N number on the tail boom. She's an experimental." Now
days when asked about my MKIII, I usually refer to her as an
ultralight. I am proud of my airplane and her
accomplishments. I am proud that she is an ultralight with
an N number.
john h
mkIII
Panama City, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... |
| From: | "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com> |
The 447 on my firefly has a total of 13hrs. and the PTO EGT has read 60 to 75 degrees
high from initial break in to present. Jetting changes helped but then
I had to accept an over rich mixture on the mag side. I pulled the motor and it
failed a pressure test. Leaking at the intake manifold. A straight across the
cylinders showed them to be fine. The straight edge across the manifold was
another story, way off. I reworked the mating surface and performed another pressure
test, no leak. I will not know until spring if this solved the problem.
One of the drawbacks to the 447 and 503 design is that it makes pressure testing
the manifold difficult. To properly seal the exhaust ports requires removing
the blower housing and installing block off plates, but this means disturbing
the intake gaskets. Regardless the manifold was not straight. A side note
to this is that the intake assembly was probably the sloppiest i have ever encountered.
The mag side gasket was the worst, sticking up from the floor of the
port close to 1/8". The worst place to have an obstruction as flow initiates
at the port floor. The manifold also had some quite severe casting flaws perpendicular
to flow. Spent hours reworking interior of manifold and trimming gaskets.
Wish I had time to rework the ports and cases but to many other mods on
the list. Almost forgot, I am very suspicious of my EGT instrument, I am going
to swap it for one of the B Lite led units. The above initial pressure test
was done with new gaskets.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363848#363848
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
Rick
I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe
below gross weight than going 20 percent over
factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you
figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware
that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines
weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is
a bit less than the 200+ you talk about.
My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise wet
and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV
paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the
seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation
and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed
a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be
real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their designs,
> and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would have used
> a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry standard) so the
> ultimate load would be 6 g's.
> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no
> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a
> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your
> chances of hitting it are slim and nil.
> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not
> down.
> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for
> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+
> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb.
> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the
> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I
> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I
> do about limit load.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the
new warp designes?
boyd y
mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The =9CFull Narrative=9D doesn=99t go into much
detail, but the fact that all three blades showed chordwise cracks as an
apparent combination of fatigue and static overload I would think would
be a real concern. The lab report didn=99t say so, but one
would assume that is the precursor for the delams and eventual shedding
of parts. The report has one phrase about =9Cbending forward
under airload.=9D??? Some of the Warp hubs had the crack problem
a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades pretty
much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary likely
scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, something in
this particular configuration caused higher inplane loads than normal
and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certified world there would be
a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers calculating
coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order of magnitude more
expensive strain gaged flight test.
One would hope that if there are other instances of
=9Ctransverse=9D cracks in the trailing edges of similar
blades, then that information would be quickly shared regarding types of
aircraft and engine, time in service, etc. ...
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I am
not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the ne
w warp designes?
boyd y
mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The =9CFull Narrative=9D doesn=99t go into much detail, b
ut the fact that all three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent co
mbination of fatigue and static overload I would think would be a real conc
ern. The lab report didn=99t say so, but one would assume that is
the precursor for the delams and eventual shedding of parts. The report ha
s one phrase about =9Cbending forward under airload.=9D??? So
me of the Warp hubs had the crack problem a few years back, but I think mos
t people consider the blades pretty much bullet proof. So seems to me you
end up with two primary likely scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....
or, more likely, something in this particular configuration caused higher i
nplane loads than normal and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certifie
d world there would be a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and com
puters calculating coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order o
f magnitude more expensive strain gaged flight test.
One would hope that if there are other instances of =9Ctransverse
=9D cracks in the trailing edges of similar blades, then that informatio
n would be quickly shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in s
ervice, etc. ...
Bob
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think
of next?
All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582 complete
with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between Valley
Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his fat
fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
> Rick
>
> I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe
> below gross weight than going 20 percent over
> factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you
> figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware
> that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines
> weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is
> a bit less than the 200+ you talk about.
>
> My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise wet
> and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV
> paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the
> seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation
> and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed
> a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be
> real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
>> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their designs,
>> and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would have used
>> a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry standard) so the
>> ultimate load would be 6 g's.
>> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no
>> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a
>> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your
>> chances of hitting it are slim and nil.
>> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not
>> down.
>> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for
>> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+
>> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb.
>> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the
>> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I
>> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I
>> do about limit load.
>>
>> Rick Girard
>>
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what
it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that
the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black
carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a
2005 vintage.
Rick Girad
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr
wrote:
> **the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I
> am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
> To: kolb-list
> Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
>
> ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the
> new warp designes?
>
> boyd y
> mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> The =93Full Narrative=94 doesn=92t go into much detail, but the fact that
all
> three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent combination of fatigu
e
> and static overload I would think would be a real concern. The lab
> report didn=92t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for th
e
> delams and eventual shedding of parts. The report has one phrase about
> =93bending forward under airload.=94??? Some of the Warp hubs had the c
rack
> problem a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades
> pretty much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary
> likely scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely,
> something in this particular configuration caused higher inplane loads th
an
> normal and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certified world there
> would be a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers
> calculating coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order of
> magnitude more expensive strain gaged flight test.
>
> One would hope that if there are other instances of =93transverse=94 crac
ks in
> the trailing edges of similar blades, then that information would be
> quickly shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in service,
> etc. ...
>
> Bob
>
>
> *
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I
am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
*********
ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the
new warp designes?
Boyd y
************
Daryl sent me two sets of WD props to test on my Firestar in 1989. Both
sets were solid carbon fiber. I didn't know they made a "cored" blade
until Ellery had his fail. BTW: I didn't like the square tip or the
fast taper tip blades. I was hooked on Jim Culver's two blade with
polyurethane edges. Believe it was a 60X30 or 32, and worked perfect
with the 447 and the FS.
Seems that WD system (cored) should be well over 20 years old. Don't
think it stayed in production but a short time.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it
is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the
center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon
surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005
vintage.
*****************
That's hardly enough to call it a core.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Souder" <flykolb(at)pa.net> |
Isn't Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125
thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.)
If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker
section at the root, then that is another.
I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut
from.
Dennis
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it
is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the
center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon
surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005
vintage.
*****************
That's hardly enough to call it a core.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Dennis, John, I made a 67" prop out of a 70". Here's a shot of the parts
left over. I didn't take the time to really polish them, but there is some
difference in the material. Perhaps it some of that rare albino carbon.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Dennis Souder wrote:
> Isn=92t Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125
> thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.)****
>
> If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker
> section at the root, then that is another.****
>
> I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut
> from.****
>
> Dennis****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Hauck
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:59 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what
> it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that
> the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black
> carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a
> 2005 vintage.****
>
> ** **
>
> * ******************
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> That's hardly enough to call it a core.****
>
> ** **
>
> john h****
>
> mkIII****
>
> Titus, Alabama****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Isn't Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125
thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.)
If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker
section at the root, then that is another.
I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut
from.
Dennis
Dennis/Kolbers:
Yes, you are correct. I misunderstood what he was saying.
I don't see a core in his photos.
I have also cut off WD blades to shorten. All I cut were solid.
I have a photo of GSC and a WD blade grips sawn down the middle to compare
the construction of each grip. The WD grip uses a small wooden down, a
steel ring for reversing the direction of the carbon fiber strands. Those
strands run from tip to grip, around the steel ring and back to the tip.
The only other thing that I know of used during construction is epoxy or
whatever is used to bind the carbon fibers.
john
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "David d." <david(at)PaulowniaTrees.com> |
I was looking over the Sun and Fun website. Maybe thinking about going.
I notice if you are an EAA member, the ticket price is discounted from $35 to $30.
Is S and F an EAA sponsered event?
--------
Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363916#363916
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> |
Richard Pike wrote:
> You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a
member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about
"Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super
Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure."
It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh.
>
> Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our end
of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath.
Agreed....I dropped out a long time ago...ever since Uncle Tom took over it turned
into a BIG money thing...At first I was angry at the food vendors ,with their
$5. pops and little sausage muffins for another $5.,until I found out how
much the EAA was charging them to be there !!!! It seems unless you own a million
dollar warbird,you need to just go away ! I remember going there with a $100.00
in my pocket and still having money to go home on...Now you can't even
get in the dang place...if you could show a pilot license,you got into the fly
wears part for free...not a chance now ! Thanks for posting....I thought I was
the only one that felt this way !
chris ambrose
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363926#363926
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
I understand the frustration and disappointment with the EAA. I feel the sa
me. But what do we do about it? Voicing our opinions on forums like this is
a good start, but it needs to go further. It needs to be brought to the at
tention of the EAA staff. However, as with any complaint, it should be acco
mpanied with recommended solutions. So, let=99s keep the complaints c
oming, but let=99s start throwing in viable solutions with them.
I agree that for me, =9CExperimenter=9D was a better magazine t
han =9CSport Pilot=9D. In fact I switched from =9CSport P
ilot=9D to =9CSport Aviation=9D because of the change in
format. I=99m a low end guy who builds and flys Kolbs, Titans, and Pi
etenpols. An RV would be nice, but it=99s out of my price range. I li
ke to read about real economical projects (airplanes, hangars, grass strips
, tools, how to stuff, etc). What are we as a group looking that we are not
getting in a magazine? Perhaps we should start submitting articles of our
own to the magazine. Editors are often struggling to fill the pages, so how
about we start to fill it with what WE want.
I still enjoy Airventure, but you are correct that it has shifted away from
the grass roots feeling to a big dollar event. Participation down on the f
arm has been declining. I suppose that the costs for vendors just make the
trip not worthwhile. If I were new to the experimental aviation world I wou
ld probably not know about a Volksplane, Teenie Two, Fly Baby, or any of th
e older scratch built designs. I might not venture down to the ultralight a
rea since there are so few airplanes down there to look at, thereby missing
Kolb=99s and Titan=99s exhibits all together.
What can we do? How about taking back our event? Everyone knows about RVs b
ecause the RV owners fill the homebuilt area with hundreds of them, and the
y=99re great airplanes. But few know about the affordable alternative
s that we all fly. It=99s up to us to show them, and it=99s up
to us to show the EAA staff that we still exist. What if we could fill the
ultralight area and homebuilt area with hundreds of OUR airplanes. Wouldn
=99t that be cool. I trailered my MKII to Airventure 2 years ago, and
weather permitting I plan to fly my Titan Tornado there this year. Why not
join me? It will be fun!
So let=99s keep the gripes coming, but don=99t forget the solut
ions. If your solution is not viable don=99t worry. Someone will let
you know. But at least it gets the ideas out there.
Malcolm Morrison
Port Matilda , PA
mmorrison123(at)comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:54:02 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?
Richard Pike wrote:
> You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, bee
n a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, b
ut about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172
's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend
money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh.
>
> Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to o
ur end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath.
Agreed....I dropped out a long time ago...ever since Uncle Tom took over it
turned into a BIG money thing...At first I was angry at the food vendors ,
with their $5. pops and little sausage muffins for another $5.,until I foun
d out how much the EAA was charging them to be there !!!! It seems unless y
ou own a million dollar warbird,you need to just go away ! I remember going
there with a $100.00 in my pocket and still having money to go home on...N
ow you can't even get in the dang place...if you could show a pilot license
,you got into the fly wears part for free...not a chance now ! Thanks for p
osting....I thought I was the only one that felt this way !
chris ambrose
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363926#363926
===========
===========
===========
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "Kirkds" <kirkds(at)dishmail.net> |
EAA got the last dollar they'll get from me years ago.
--------
Kirk Smith
Columbiaville, MI
Firestar II
"Once you accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something,
wearing stripes with plaid comes easy" Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363946#363946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 |
> I did not renew my EAA membership this last year,
I won't renew until they offer something I want.
Actually I like the 'how-to' things they offer, videos and all. But I feel
like I am as likely, or more likely to find someone else has posted a how-to
on Youtube that meets my needs.
I DO NOT want to even look at another expensive LSA. If I wanted LSAs why
would I join "Experimental" AA?
Another thing is they are too blame expensive. What do I get for my money? A
museum I can't afford to visit because it is 2000 miles away. Discount on
attending AV, also 2,000 miles away. Lobbying? Maybe- but I feel like they
are lobbying ME for more money. I suppose they lobby for us but who can say
about the cost or value?
If *I* were King, I think I would have more of a parade of
experimental/homebuilts/ultralights instead of big expensive airshows.
Military stuff is big and exciting, but let's keep cost down huh? If the
military does it for free, OK. I would make Oshkosh more of a swap meet and
display place for OUR kind of planes. All the big money the giant booth
renters pay just squeezes out the little guys. Raises the bar too high.
I doubt I'll go back. Well, maybe. I did make some great contacts there.
Took some detailed pics that were a big help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 |
> I reworked the mating surface and performed another pressure test, no
leak.
I have worked on a lot of aluminum engines, different kinds and sizes. I
have made a personal rule NOT to assemble ANY such engine w/o resurfacing
the intake. TOO blame much problems there. I used to use the straight edge,
still do, but just for grins. I resurface them anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> |
Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local sport flying
club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers
http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html
is a member of the U S Ultralight Association
http://www.usua.org/
Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group, but that
works for us.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363994#363994
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
OK
Rick/All
I only hear about the 912 dry weight. You can't accurately compare engine
weights dry verses ready to fly. So why do 912 powered Kolbs end up
weighing about the same as my VW? I'm good but with all I have in my MKIIIC
I can't believe by your figures that I have trimmed 60-80lbs off the
average stock MKIIIC. My plane weighs 598lbs., the old high mount with the
5lb. engine adapter was 604lbs. That is two weighings years apart with
two different sets of scales Could it be that VWs and Rotax engines are
heavyer than Rotax is advertising? I guess we need to watch the weights as
more of the VW powered Kolbs are being built.
VW engines aren't sold for our Kolbs as a package yet. Be careful what you
put on them. If you don't they will get heavy. I don't recommend a magneto
and certainly not two, they are heavy, expensive, under powered, and
unreliable. I got about a pound off the diel accessory case by removing two
unused mounting ears and drilling lightning holes(the bed mount we use
doesn't stress this case like the difocal mount did). Also if I changed to
the new 100cc bigger bore nickasil cylinders, that do a better
job transferring heat, I would cut another 10lbs. And there is now a
lighter starter than what I have, scratch another pound.
My point is that a well built redrive VW engine will end up weighing
within single digits in US pounds of the 10-15 thousand dollar
more expensive Rotax 912. If you fly over remote parts of Alaska buy the
Rotax. If you don't and don't mind experimenting a bit try a VW. With every
new VW built we get a better and more standardized engine.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think
> of next?
> All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582 complete
> with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between Valley
> Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his fat
> fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
>
>> Rick
>>
>> I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe
>> below gross weight than going 20 percent over
>> factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you
>> figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware
>> that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines
>> weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is
>> a bit less than the 200+ you talk about.
>>
>> My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise
>> wet and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV
>> paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the
>> seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation
>> and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed
>> a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be
>> real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>>
>>> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their
>>> designs, and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would
>>> have used a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry
>>> standard) so the ultimate load would be 6 g's.
>>> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no
>>> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a
>>> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your
>>> chances of hitting it are slim and nil.
>>> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not
>>> down.
>>> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for
>>> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+
>>> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb.
>>> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the
>>> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I
>>> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I
>>> do about limit load.
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Zulu Delta
> Mk IIIC
> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
Phil and interested Kolbers, The following is the updatefrom Leon on the MZ
=C2-201 with fan cooling .=C2- Chris=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492
hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A =0A----- Forwa
rded Message -----=0AFrom: Leon Massa <leon_massa(at)telus.net>=0ATo: 'chris d
avis' =0ASent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:33 AM=0ASu
bject: RE: mz 201=0A =0A=0AChris,=0AI only got a chance yesterday to go to
work and actually weigh all the bits and pieces for all of the different e
ngines and configurations. During normal work hours I=99m so busy tha
t I figured I would go on a weekend while nobody was there and the phone do
esn=99t ring..=0AA complete MZ201 with fan cooling is 69.8lbs. Just l
ike I originally thought. The fan cooling option actually weighs less than
if it was free air cooled with electric and pull starter.=0AThe engine itse
lf is 61.8lbs and the exhaust is 8lbs. The only thing I didn=99t add
(I only just remembered now) was the 2 cdi=99s and the voltage regula
tor and wiring harness, so add maybe 2lbs. =0ASo, total weight is 71lbs.=0A
Cost is $4440.00 for the MZ201 and add $560.00 for the fan cooling option.
=0ATotal $5000.00 US$ plus shipping.=0A=C2-=0ALet me know if you need any
further info.=0A=C2-=0ARegards=0ALeon=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:chris dav
is [mailto:capedavis(at)yahoo.com] =0ASent: January-16-12 7:56 AM=0ATo: Leon M
assa=0ASubject: Re: mz 201=0A=C2-=0ALeon, I still havent heard from you?
I am building a Kolb Firefly and am going to buy an engine this year .I wis
h to know the weight and cost of a 201 single carb , dual CDI,fan cooled ,b
elt reduction? thank you for your time .=C2- Chris=0A=C2-=0AChris Davis
=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A
From:Leon Massa =0ATo: 'chris davis' =0ASent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:42 AM=0ASubject: RE: mz 201=0A
=C2-=0AChris,=0AI can add the fan cooling to the 201 if you like. The wei
ght of the engine will be determined by how you want it configured. Single
ignition, dual Ignition, belt reduction or gearbox. If you let me know how
you want it configured I can give you a final cost and weight. When you add
the optional fan cooling you automatically loose the pull starter.=0AOur s
tandard 201 weighs 70lbs complete. With fan cooling it only add 1 or 2 lbs.
=0A=C2-=0APlease when you reply make sure you reply to this email so I c
an keep track of our =9Cdiscussion=9D back and forth. I get 100
=99s of emails and if you don=99t send me back what I have sent
you then I have to search all our previous emails.=0AThanks=0ALeon=0A=C2
-=0AFrom:chris davis [mailto:capedavis(at)yahoo.com] =0ASent: December-15-11
8:06 PM=0ATo: Leon_massa(at)telus.net=0ASubject: mz 201=0A=C2-=0AHello, I a
m considering your engine for a Kolb firefly and I am concerned about cooli
ng on the pusher ,I am aware that you said because of the reduced rpms it w
ouldnt need fan cooling bu I am thinking that to much=C2-is always enough
=C2-.How much does the fan cooling weigh ? How much does the pullstarter
weigh? can I leave out the pullstarter and ad the fan cooling and ciome out
near equal weight wise?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- the engine is too dear
to have overheat if all that is required for safty sake is a cooling fan=0A
.=C2-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from cras
h building Firefly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots of
dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if not
paying attention to it.
USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only reason
I'm a member is for the insurance.
-Dana
At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local
>sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers
>http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html
>is a member of the U S Ultralight Association
>http://www.usua.org/
>
>Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group,
>but that works for us.
--
The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good
and hard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
I too once belonged to the EAA, first to a local chapter. Then I realized
that the magazines that the main EAA forced me to take held no interest for
me. A friend was able to get his membership without paying for the mags. I
did that for a year, then they decided that I had to take the mag whether I
wanted it or not, and even worse I had to pay for the damn thing. I decided
that I didn't need to belong to the org. either. Fortunately where I live
and fly about the only thing that I can need insurance for is myself, so I
do not need to belong.
Larry
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Dana Hague wrote:
> Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots of
> dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if not
> paying attention to it.
>
> USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only reason
> I'm a member is for the insurance.
>
> -Dana
>
> At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local
> sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers
> http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html
> is a member of the U S Ultralight Association
> http://www.usua.org/
>
> Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group,
> but that works for us.
>
>
> --
> The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good
> and hard.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
I'm still a member of the EAA. I enjoy going for the full week to Sun-N-Fun
and Airventure. I have flown my Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC to AirVenture
four times and Sun-N-Fun once. Do I like the way things are going Hell No!
I also haven't been just standing by and just watching.
I have written Tommy a few times once I got a very good response. I have
also written the EAA many times with very limited effect. My biggest
mistake was responding to a request in the Experimenter for suggestions on
how the Ultralight/LSA area could be better at Airventure. I thought they
wanted input, I got a response that was as mean spirited as I have ever
heard. I was in summation told that as chair of the ultra light council she
would personally make sure that none of my suggestions would ever see the
light of day. I slipped one by her one year by getting Tommy to put a port
a potty in the UL/LSA Campground but she got even by not allowing it to be
serviced all week.
The final insult for me was the closing of the UL/LSA campground at
Airventure.
Sun N Fun is much more fly in friendly but there are limits.
My advice is only ask for one thing. It doesn't matter how bad it is or how
nice you ask if you list too many things you aren't going to get anywhere.
Rick Neilsen
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:47 AM, George Bearden wrote:
>
> > I did not renew my EAA membership this last year,
>
> I won't renew until they offer something I want.
>
> Actually I like the 'how-to' things they offer, videos and all. But I feel
> like I am as likely, or more likely to find someone else has posted a
> how-to
> on Youtube that meets my needs.
>
> I DO NOT want to even look at another expensive LSA. If I wanted LSAs why
> would I join "Experimental" AA?
>
> Another thing is they are too blame expensive. What do I get for my money?
> A
> museum I can't afford to visit because it is 2000 miles away. Discount on
> attending AV, also 2,000 miles away. Lobbying? Maybe- but I feel like they
> are lobbying ME for more money. I suppose they lobby for us but who can say
> about the cost or value?
>
> If *I* were King, I think I would have more of a parade of
> experimental/homebuilts/ultralights instead of big expensive airshows.
> Military stuff is big and exciting, but let's keep cost down huh? If the
> military does it for free, OK. I would make Oshkosh more of a swap meet and
> display place for OUR kind of planes. All the big money the giant booth
> renters pay just squeezes out the little guys. Raises the bar too high.
>
> I doubt I'll go back. Well, maybe. I did make some great contacts there.
> Took some detailed pics that were a big help.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mk III max takeoff weight |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Rick, My Mk IIIC weighed 530 lb. with a 582 so your VW is at least 68lb.
heavier than an installed 582. If you add up all the usual accesories used
on a 912 it comes out to 141.56 lb. That includes both radiators, the air
filters, the regulator and the exhaust system. Add 10 lb. for the oil tank
and lines and you have an installed weight of 152 lb.
For that you get an honest 100 hp for take off and an engine that is the
energizer bunny of the aviation world.
Yes, you pay for all the engineering and 30 years of effort to produce the
engine in its present state of tune.
Don't get me wrong about VW's. I've been around them for a long time. If I
were going to put a new engine on my Mk III and I could keep the weight
down to 560 lb. (I still maintain that there's 30 lb. of bad Aerothane on
it) I think that would be workable for a VW producing an honest 65 hp.
Rick
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
> OK
>
> Rick/All
>
> I only hear about the 912 dry weight. You can't accurately compare engine
> weights dry verses ready to fly. So why do 912 powered Kolbs end up
> weighing about the same as my VW? I'm good but with all I have in my MKIIIC
> I can't believe by your figures that I have trimmed 60-80lbs off the
> average stock MKIIIC. My plane weighs 598lbs., the old high mount with the
> 5lb. engine adapter was 604lbs. That is two weighings years apart with
> two different sets of scales Could it be that VWs and Rotax engines are
> heavyer than Rotax is advertising? I guess we need to watch the weights as
> more of the VW powered Kolbs are being built.
>
> VW engines aren't sold for our Kolbs as a package yet. Be careful what you
> put on them. If you don't they will get heavy. I don't recommend a magneto
> and certainly not two, they are heavy, expensive, under powered, and
> unreliable. I got about a pound off the diel accessory case by removing two
> unused mounting ears and drilling lightning holes(the bed mount we use
> doesn't stress this case like the difocal mount did). Also if I changed to
> the new 100cc bigger bore nickasil cylinders, that do a better
> job transferring heat, I would cut another 10lbs. And there is now a
> lighter starter than what I have, scratch another pound.
>
> My point is that a well built redrive VW engine will end up weighing
> within single digits in US pounds of the 10-15 thousand dollar
> more expensive Rotax 912. If you fly over remote parts of Alaska buy the
> Rotax. If you don't and don't mind experimenting a bit try a VW. With every
> new VW built we get a better and more standardized engine.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
>> They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think
>> of next?
>> All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582
>> complete with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between
>> Valley Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his
>> fat fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:
>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe
>>> below gross weight than going 20 percent over
>>> factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you
>>> figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware
>>> that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines
>>> weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is
>>> a bit less than the 200+ you talk about.
>>>
>>> My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise
>>> wet and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV
>>> paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the
>>> seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation
>>> and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed
>>> a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be
>>> real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly.
>>>
>>> Rick Neilsen
>>> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their
>>>> designs, and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would
>>>> have used a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry
>>>> standard) so the ultimate load would be 6 g's.
>>>> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no
>>>> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a
>>>> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your
>>>> chances of hitting it are slim and nil.
>>>> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load,
>>>> not down.
>>>> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for
>>>> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+
>>>> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb.
>>>> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the
>>>> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening.
I
>>>> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I
>>>> do about limit load.
>>>>
>>>> Rick Girard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>
>>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
>> unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Did you know crows snowboard? was >changes in EAA? |
To all my fellow Kolb brethren,
Since we're on this extended break on the subject of "Kolb" aircraft, I
thought I 'd post this link on unusual avian winter sport activity.
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/a-crow-appears-to-find-a-sour
ce-of-winter-sport/?ref=science
Gene Z
On Jan 16, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> I too once belonged to the EAA, first to a local chapter. Then I
realized that the magazines that the main EAA forced me to take held no
interest for me. A friend was able to get his membership without paying
for the mags. I did that for a year, then they decided that I had to
take the mag whether I wanted it or not, and even worse I had to pay for
the damn thing. I decided that I didn't need to belong to the org.
either. Fortunately where I live and fly about the only thing that I can
need insurance for is myself, so I do not need to belong.
> Larry
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Dana Hague
wrote:
> Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots
of dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if
not paying attention to it.
>
> USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only
reason I'm a member is for the insurance.
>
> -Dana
>
> At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote:
>>
>> Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our
local sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers
>> http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html
>> is a member of the U S Ultralight Association
>> http://www.usua.org/
>>
>> Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of
group, but that works for us.
>
> --
> The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it
good and hard.
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | michigan kolberPARTY |
please call me if you want to come mal
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "aerograf@power-net.net" <aerograf@power-net.net>
; "Lang, J 6/12" ; "Klepser,
J 6/12" ; "Spinney, J N/A" ; "Fittante,
P 6/12" ; ASC HQ N/A ; "Kociba, K NL Exch.
BARUC" ; "Linker, Robert" ;
Linker R NA/O ; "Niles, D 6/12" ;
"CARMER, J 6/12" ; "Tucker, D 6/12" ;
"Hall, J 6/12" ; "Hasman, B 6/12" ;
"Jaques, K 6/12" ; "Smith, D 6/12" ;
"Soper, L 6/12" <lsoper@net-port.com>; "McKay, Julie - Owosso Airport
Assoc." ; "McArthur, J 6/11" ; "Gerics,
M 6/12" ; "Miller, M (L.M.)" ;
"Mikesell, C 6/11" ; "Minarik, L 6/12" ;
"EAA Jones, M N/A"
; "McKusick, M 6/11" ; "Morrell, K 6/12"
; "Allen, D. 6/11" ; "Anderson, P&D 6/12"
; "DRASUTIS, P 6/12" ; "Adkison,
P 6/12" ; "Demeter,P N/A" ;
"Purdy, P N/A" ; "LaPorte, D 6/12" ;
"Perry, Rob 6/11" ; "Ferrier, B 6/12" ;
"Scott Blixt, N/A NLE" ; "Schmitz, W 6/12" ;
Ultralight Flying N/A ; "Kaye, T
6/11" ; "Hart, D N/A-O" ; "Smith, R
6/12" ; "Spence, S 6/12" ;
"Spence, S 6/12" ; Grass Roots Aviators ;
"Jones, R 6/12" ; "Beaupre, T GTUF NL Exch
N/A"
; "Van Ee, G 6/11" ; "Myers, J.
6/12" ; "Williams, J 6/12" ; "WARDAVOIR,
G N/L Exch" ; "Pickens, B NLE" ;
"Barrow, W N/A-O" ; "Hanes, R
6/11" ; "LaBar, R 6/12" ; "Boross, Z 6/10"
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 1:21 PM
Subject: MULA WINTER PARTY FLYER
Reminder Flyer for the MULA Party
Denny Demeter
AV/Grafix, Ltd.
(800)-352-2296
(989) 288-3090
www.avgrafix.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Blade Grip Comparison, GSC and Warp Drive |
These two photos compare a solid wood GSC blade and a WD carbon fiber blade
grip.
Both blades experienced catastrophic failure:
-The GSC blade failed impacting the tail boom of my MKIII, then collecting
the other two blades. That was sometime in September 1993. That failure
cost me a tail boom replacement and some tube and fabric work.
-The WD prop blade is from a RANS S-12 that got away from the owner at WOT
and without wings. Lucky man did not get chewed up by the prop because the
landing gear knocked him and his buddy down when it skyrocketed down the
taxiway. The aircraft continued WOT to the edge of the airport, his a small
berm, then launched about 20 feet in the air. In the process the blades
when half way through a 10 inch pine tree truck that collected all three
blades at the roots. I was parked facing the right side of the S-12, had
just reached for the switch to start the engine in my MKIII, when I heard
the 912UL scream and launch east. What a surprise. No one was injured, and
the RANS was rebuilt with a new 912UL.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
Once you accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy Albert Einstein
That's great.Very funny. I had not heard it before. Doesn't`t sound like
Einstein though. Any confirmation.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
Hi,
As you are probably aware we do not have anything like the Experimental
Category in the UK.
Since the Thirties there has been the Popular Flying Association which
in the early days promoted information and plans for light aircraft.
Planes discussed were small, light, generally single seaters, probably
the best known being the Mignet Flying Flea. This continued for many
years. Planes became a bit bigger and more sophisticated and included
factory built planes. Moths etc. Popular Flying was the magazine for the
light aircraft devotee.
Hang gliders came along which evolved into microlights. After a dodgy
start with no regulation and a few deaths an Association of microlight
pilots was formed with their own magazine. Luckily Anne Welch, who had
been involved in the British Gliding Association since very early
gliding days realised the parallels between the development of early
microlights and early gliders. She became involved and with others
piloted the emerging Microlight Assoc. into a position where they ran
their own autonomous Association, supplied instructors, agreed their
own specifications of what a microlight was, their own inspectors, their
own licences for pilots and aircraft etc. all under the auspices of the
Board of Trade and CAA. The basis of `keep your nose clean and we won`t
interfere` was and is well established.government attitude.
Naturally there has been some conflict between the Popular Flying
Assoc.,( now the Light Aircraft Assoc).,.and the Microlight fraternity
over jurisdiction and there have been efforts to merge the two
organisations. These have failed, unfortunately in my view, as I have to
be a member of both which is unnecessarily expensive. The Light
Aircraft Assoc has now approved their first four seater plane so is
moving farther from the microlight end which is my interest .
Looking at your problems with the EAA from the outside it would seem
that you either have to attend all EAA meetings, propose motions, get
them seconded and passed by working the `proper` organisation route and
change things from the inside or form your own organisation.
That of course means a lot of work for someone. A respected organisation
which can negotiate from strength on your behalf with the FAA, insurance
companies etc has to be legal with a proper framework of representation
and so on to be taken seriously.
Unfortunately the Experimental attitude as with our Microlight attitude
is not attractive to people who only want to build and fly. Not mess
about with `office work`
People who will do it can be found however, we have proved it in the UK
but it is not easy.
Forgive a limey for intruding on your turf but roughly this is the way
it has happened here, for what its worth
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This is what needs to change / changes in EAA? |
Ok guys,
This old man is going to stick his old neck way out here.
What this sport actually needs is more courageous young men with the
philosophy of the young Homer Kolb who reasoned that if he could climb
to the top of dad's silo without any kind certificate, he could build
his own kind of plane and fly to the same height over the farm without
any kind certificate.
The late seventies and early eighties was a era when this renegade
aviation paradigm flourished in the hearts of YOUNG men, and because of
it this sport grew by leaps and bounds.
Since that time this unique sport has atrophied to its present sorry
state because timid old men have been cowed into a preoccupation of
protecting their ass-ets by seeking governmental approval for every
dream they wish to pursue.
Todays young men have been robbed of the opportunity of purchasing
affordable good USED ultralight planes by old men preoccupied by their
fear and disapproval of legalistic "fat" that has been the backbone
hardware of this sport since from its beginning heyday.
Rich old men have just about succeeded in killing the sport pioneered in
the U.S. by courageous young renegades espousing aviation paradigms
like Homer Kolb and others like him had back in the seventies and
eighties..
In order to flourish again this sport must return to its courageous root
paradigms.
Ok now ,, here's my old head,,, chop it off.
Gene Z
On Jan 17, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
> Hi,
> As you are probably aware we do not have anything like the
Experimental Category in the UK.
>
> Since the Thirties there has been the Popular Flying Association which
in the early days promoted information and plans for light aircraft.
Planes discussed were small, light, generally single seaters, probably
the best known being the Mignet Flying Flea. This continued for many
years. Planes became a bit bigger and more sophisticated and included
factory built planes. Moths etc. Popular Flying was the magazine for the
light aircraft devotee.
>
> Hang gliders came along which evolved into microlights. After a dodgy
start with no regulation and a few deaths an Association of microlight
pilots was formed with their own magazine. Luckily Anne Welch, who had
been involved in the British Gliding Association since very early
gliding days realised the parallels between the development of early
microlights and early gliders. She became involved and with others
piloted the emerging Microlight Assoc. into a position where they ran
their own autonomous Association, supplied instructors, agreed their
own specifications of what a microlight was, their own inspectors, their
own licences for pilots and aircraft etc. all under the auspices of the
Board of Trade and CAA. The basis of `keep your nose clean and we won`t
interfere` was and is well established.government attitude.
>
> Naturally there has been some conflict between the Popular Flying
Assoc.,( now the Light Aircraft Assoc).,.and the Microlight fraternity
over jurisdiction and there have been efforts to merge the two
organisations. These have failed, unfortunately in my view, as I have to
be a member of both which is unnecessarily expensive. The Light
Aircraft Assoc has now approved their first four seater plane so is
moving farther from the microlight end which is my interest .
>
> Looking at your problems with the EAA from the outside it would seem
that you either have to attend all EAA meetings, propose motions, get
them seconded and passed by working the `proper` organisation route and
change things from the inside or form your own organisation.
>
> That of course means a lot of work for someone. A respected
organisation which can negotiate from strength on your behalf with the
FAA, insurance companies etc has to be legal with a proper framework of
representation and so on to be taken seriously.
>
> Unfortunately the Experimental attitude as with our Microlight
attitude is not attractive to people who only want to build and fly. Not
mess about with `office work`
> People who will do it can be found however, we have proved it in the
UK but it is not easy.
>
> Forgive a limey for intruding on your turf but roughly this is the
way it has happened here, for what its worth
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This is what needs to change / changes in EAA? |
Chop! Chop!! :-) Hey....shooting the messenger is great
sport...takes little to no courage...certainly no brain....:-)
The more basic problem is with society as a whole.. One change
that I notice over the last 30 or so years..is the tendency for
everyone to want to talk and no one to listen...
Thoughtful folks will understand that all of our ills are Kolb
related... discussing the rust on the end of the barrel of a gun
that is pointed at you is folly....Herb (you may quote me on that one!! ) :-)
At 08:53 AM 1/17/2012, you wrote:
>Ok guys,
>
>This old man is going to stick his old neck way out here.
>
>What this sport actually needs is more courageous young men with
>the philosophy of the young Homer Kolb who reasoned that if he could
>climb to the top of dad's silo without any kind certificate, he
>could build his own kind of plane and fly to the same height over
>the farm without any kind certificate.
>
>The late seventies and early eighties was a era when this renegade
>aviation paradigm flourished in the hearts of YOUNG men, and
>because of it this sport grew by leaps and bounds.
>Since that time this unique sport has atrophied to its present sorry
>state because timid old men have been cowed into a preoccupation of
>protecting their ass-ets by seeking governmental approval for
>every dream they wish to pursue.
>Todays young men have been robbed of the opportunity of purchasing
>affordable good USED ultralight planes by old men preoccupied by
>their fear and disapproval of legalistic "fat" that has been the
>backbone hardware of this sport since from its beginning heyday.
>
>Rich old men have just about succeeded in killing the sport
>pioneered in the U.S. by courageous young
>renegades espousing aviation paradigms like Homer Kolb and others
>like him had back in the seventies and eighties..
>
>In order to flourish again this sport must return to its courageous
>root paradigms.
>
>Ok now ,, here's my old head,,, chop it off.
>
>Gene Z
>
>
>On Jan 17, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>As you are probably aware we do not have anything like the
>>Experimental Category in the UK.
>>
>>Since the Thirties there has been the Popular Flying Association
>>which in the early days promoted information and plans for light
>>aircraft. Planes discussed were small, light, generally single
>>seaters, probably the best known being the Mignet Flying Flea.
>>This continued for many years. Planes became a bit bigger and more
>>sophisticated and included factory built planes. Moths etc. Popular
>>Flying was the magazine for the light aircraft devotee.
>>
>>Hang gliders came along which evolved into microlights. After a
>>dodgy start with no regulation and a few deaths an Association of
>>microlight pilots was formed with their own magazine. Luckily Anne
>>Welch, who had been involved in the British Gliding Association
>>since very early gliding days realised the parallels between the
>>development of early microlights and early gliders. She became
>>involved and with others piloted the emerging Microlight Assoc.
>>into a position where they ran their own autonomous Association,
>>supplied instructors, agreed their own specifications of what a
>>microlight was, their own inspectors, their own licences for pilots
>>and aircraft etc. all under the auspices of the Board of Trade and
>>CAA. The basis of `keep your nose clean and we won`t interfere` was
>>and is well established.government attitude.
>>
>>Naturally there has been some conflict between the Popular Flying
>>Assoc.,( now the Light Aircraft Assoc).,.and the Microlight
>>fraternity over jurisdiction and there have been efforts to merge
>>the two organisations. These have failed, unfortunately in my view,
>>as I have to be a member of both which is unnecessarily expensive.
>>The Light Aircraft Assoc has now approved their first four seater
>>plane so is moving farther from the microlight end which is my interest .
>>
>>Looking at your problems with the EAA from the outside it would
>>seem that you either have to attend all EAA meetings, propose
>>motions, get them seconded and passed by working the `proper`
>>organisation route and change things from the inside or form your
>>own organisation.
>>
>>That of course means a lot of work for someone. A respected
>>organisation which can negotiate from strength on your behalf with
>>the FAA, insurance companies etc has to be legal with a proper
>>framework of representation and so on to be taken seriously.
>>
>>Unfortunately the Experimental attitude as with our Microlight
>>attitude is not attractive to people who only want to build and
>>fly. Not mess about with `office work`
>>People who will do it can be found however, we have proved it in
>>the UK but it is not easy.
>>
>>Forgive a limey for intruding on your turf but roughly this is the
>>way it has happened here, for what its worth
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OFF TOPIC- but amazing- outside loop at 30'! |
| From: | "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com> |
Hit you tube at this link and see US technology at it's best (or worst-LOL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAoVcNifdY
Here is the commentary: Read the text before watching the video!
F-35 unintentional loop at takeoff on a carrier
This guy clearly has brass and you know the sailors on the flight deck had a cow
when they saw this unfold in front of them. Unintentional?
This is unbelievable!
F-35 unintentional loop at takeoff a real "check your laundry" event.
A supremely well-trained US Navy pilot, ice running in his veins instead of blood,
fully regains control of his $70 million, F-35 joint strike force fighter,
after a problematic vertical take-off attempt... Watch as the rear vertical thruster
fires to cause the problem.
There's nothing about this the pilot enjoys. If he could have ejected at 100'
upside down and lived, he would have. Looks like the afterburner kicks in while
still vectored for vertical takeoff. Lockheed would call this a "software malfunction"
and do a little more "regressive testing". This is a good demonstration
of power-to-weight ratio of this aircraft! And talk about stability control...
If he didn't come out of the loop wings-level, it probably would have been bad
news; maybe taking some of the carrier with him!
Add to this flying through your own exhaust, which can lead to equipment malfunctions,
as in "flame out". The F-35 is single engine aircraft with vertical takeoff/landing
capability, but it has the aerodynamics of a Steinway piano at zero
airspeed.
This is the most unbelievable piece of flying you will ever see in your life.
This Guy deserves a Medal for saving a 70 Million Dollar Aircraft!
You'll watch it at least 2 times!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364101#364101
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OFF TOPIC- but amazing- outside loop at 30'! |
| From: | "Tom O'Hara" <tohara(at)alphagraphics.com> |
OF course it might be Battlefield 2??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364112#364112
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This is what needs to change / changes in EAA? |
Ok now ,, here's my old head,,, chop it off.
Gene Z
Gene Z/Kolbers:
I was overwhelmed when I finally got to go to Army Flight School at the ripe
old age of 29. I thought I would never get the chance, but I did. I loved
flying helicopters, more so in a combat environment than peace time. Didn't
have to worry too much about peace time flying because when I returned from
VN there wasn't much flying to be done by a young Army helicopter pilot.
Most everything was done by the reg with virtually no freedom of flight.
After 4 years of retirement from the Army, I missed flying but could not
afford to fly civilian aircraft. Besides, I never got a fixed wing
transition. Along comes Homer Kolb and his little Ultrastar. Bought the
kit in Feb 1984, received it in Mar and flew it the first time in June, self
educated and self taught in fixed wing flying. Never had the first lesson,
flew over 1,100.0 hours in my first two Kolbs. Got a Private Ticket in
1990, when I decided to build the MKIII and fly it to Alaska. Had to have
one then, or I would have stuck to ultra lights and no license.
My first flight was all I needed to know I had found the kind of flying I
really enjoyed. The primary reason I enjoyed ultralight was the complete
freedom I had to build, modify, and fly. And I did. I was a free bird. I
flew when and where I wanted to, and how I wanted to. May not have been in
compliance with Part 103, but I was far enough away from the flag pole not
to have to worry about the Feds.
8 Years and two Kolbs later, I find myself flying an N numbered MKIII. As
much fun as it was to fly the MKIII, having an N number and a Private Ticket
encouraged me to be more cognizant of the flying regs. I stopped taking off
and landing on taxiways because it was quicker or because they pointed into
the wind more. Stopped landing on roads and refueling at gas stations.
Stopped doing a lot of fun stuff I used to do when flying my Ultrastar and
Firestar.
I don't think anything can replace the freedom we had building and flying
our unregistered Kolbs in the 1980's. Sitting here with the rain drumming
on the tin roof of my deck, the memories of those early days are coming
back. No, we don't have as much freedom as we did back then, but it is
still a lot of fun. Maybe not quite as much fun as it used to be.
I wrote a msg about the EAA last week, but it got gobbled up somewhere out
there in cyber space. What I said very briefly is, I belong to EAA for two
reasons:
-1 I have to be a member of an EAA Chapter to buy Falcon Insurance.
-2 Can't buy Falcon Insurance unless I am an EAA member.
-3 I still like to fly down to Sun and Fun to spend time with the Kolb
Gang, and the many friends I have made in the last 28 years because of Homer
Kolb's little airplanes. Many of my friends I never see except at Lakeland
or Oshkosh. I haven't been to Oshkosh since 2007. Maybe this year if they
haven't taken all our camping privileges and freedoms away I'll fly up
there.
Well, I had three instead of two reasons.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This is what needs to change / changes in EAA? |
John,
Well exemplified in real life, and well articulated.
Thanks,
On Jan 17, 2012, at 6:03 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Gene Z/Kolbers:
>
> I was overwhelmed when I finally got to go to Army Flight School at
the ripe old age of 29. I thought I would never get the chance, but I
did. I loved flying helicopters, more so in a combat environment than
peace time. Didn't have to worry too much about peace time flying
because when I returned from VN there wasn't much flying to be done by a
young Army helicopter pilot. Most everything was done by the reg with
virtually no freedom of flight.
>
> After 4 years of retirement from the Army, I missed flying but could
not afford to fly civilian aircraft. Besides, I never got a fixed wing
transition. Along comes Homer Kolb and his little Ultrastar. Bought
the kit in Feb 1984, received it in Mar and flew it the first time in
June, self educated and self taught in fixed wing flying. Never had the
first lesson, flew over 1,100.0 hours in my first two Kolbs. Got a
Private Ticket in 1990, when I decided to build the MKIII and fly it to
Alaska. Had to have one then, or I would have stuck to ultra lights and
no license.
>
> My first flight was all I needed to know I had found the kind of
flying I really enjoyed. The primary reason I enjoyed ultralight was
the complete freedom I had to build, modify, and fly. And I did. I was
a free bird. I flew when and where I wanted to, and how I wanted to.
May not have been in compliance with Part 103, but I was far enough away
from the flag pole not to have to worry about the Feds.
>
> 8 Years and two Kolbs later, I find myself flying an N numbered MKIII.
As much fun as it was to fly the MKIII, having an N number and a
Private Ticket encouraged me to be more cognizant of the flying regs. I
stopped taking off and landing on taxiways because it was quicker or
because they pointed into the wind more. Stopped landing on roads and
refueling at gas stations. Stopped doing a lot of fun stuff I used to
do when flying my Ultrastar and Firestar.
>
> I don't think anything can replace the freedom we had building and
flying our unregistered Kolbs in the 1980's. Sitting here with the rain
drumming on the tin roof of my deck, the memories of those early days
are coming back. No, we don't have as much freedom as we did back then,
but it is still a lot of fun. Maybe not quite as much fun as it used to
be.
>
> I wrote a msg about the EAA last week, but it got gobbled up somewhere
out there in cyber space. What I said very briefly is, I belong to EAA
for two reasons:
>
> -1 I have to be a member of an EAA Chapter to buy Falcon Insurance.
>
> -2 Can't buy Falcon Insurance unless I am an EAA member.
>
> -3 I still like to fly down to Sun and Fun to spend time with the
Kolb Gang, and the many friends I have made in the last 28 years because
of Homer Kolb's little airplanes. Many of my friends I never see except
at Lakeland or Oshkosh. I haven't been to Oshkosh since 2007. Maybe
this year if they haven't taken all our camping privileges and freedoms
away I'll fly up there.
>
> Well, I had three instead of two reasons.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
With all due respect all this talk, and I have joined in, about EAA is just
so much whizzing in the wind. That is not to say that any of the authors do
not have legitimate complaints or points of view, it is just that, as we
must be reminded from time to time, this is the Kolb forum. No one from EAA
is likely to read what is written here, and no action will come from it.
Here is just one of many addresses where you might be heard;
membership(at)eaa.org ;
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
Sorry for being into this thread late but I'd like to know Ellery, did you
ever notice any signs of trouble on the prop prior to failure, such as the
cracks or anything other than a normal smooth surface?
Thanks,
-Ben Ransom
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com<mailto:elleryweld(at)aol.com>>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:25:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp
drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop W
ho do they think they are using the public as
a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on
there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the FAA h
as told me
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net<mailto:williamtsullivan@at
t.net>>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart? Last I
remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factor
y Warp Drive.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, Warp Drive prop
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: This is what needs to change / changes in EAA? |
- Brovo Eugene-----Ultralight Training is the kee to a revival,
using a flying club is the perfict way to train new students, anyone with
the desire can start a flying club for free. and start training ultralight
pilots for a club fee. ultralite pilots who register with the EAA recive cr
edit for training and flying time when they pursue a- pilot license. the
EAA fought for that prevlige for us.- now its up to us. I have a flying c
lub-its called fly for-fun club. yours Eugene could be called Eugene,s
fly for fun club. anyone wanting ther own fly for fun club should contact m
e off list and I will help you get started.--mal- -call any time-
---------=0A=0A=0AMalcolm & Jeanne Brubaker =0AMichigan S
port Pilot Repair =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0AGreat Sails - Sailmaker =0Afor Ultra
light & Light Sport=0A(989)513-3022=0A =0A=0A______________________________
__=0A From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.c
om =0ASent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:53 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Re:
This is what needs to change / changes in EAA?=0A =0A=0AOk guys,=0A=0A=0A
This old man is going to stick his old neck way out here.=0A=0AWhat this sp
ort actually needs is more -courageous young men with the philosophy of t
he young Homer Kolb who reasoned that if he could climb to the top of dad's
silo without any kind certificate, -he could build his own kind of -pl
ane and fly to the same height over the farm without any kind certificate.
=0A=0AThe late seventies and early eighties was a era when this -renegade
aviation paradigm flourished in the hearts of YOUNG men, -and because of
it this sport grew by leaps and bounds.-=0ASince that time this unique s
port has atrophied to its present sorry state because timid old men have be
en cowed into a preoccupation of protecting their -ass-ets by seeking -
governmental approval for every dream they wish to pursue. -=0ATodays yo
ung men have been robbed of the opportunity of purchasing affordable -goo
d USED -ultralight planes by old men preoccupied by their fear and -dis
approval of-legalistic "fat" that has been the backbone -hardware of th
is sport since from its beginning -heyday.=0A=0ARich old men have just ab
out succeeded in killing the sport pioneered in the U.S. by courageous youn
g renegades -espousing -aviation paradigms like Homer Kolb and others l
ike him had back in the seventies and eighties..=0A=0AIn order to flourish
again this sport must return to its courageous root paradigms.=0A=0AOk now
,, -here's my old head,,, chop it off.=0A=0AGene Z=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 17, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:=0A=0AHi,
=0A>As you are probably aware we do not have anything like the Experimental
Category in the UK.=0A>-=0A>Since the Thirties there has been the Popula
r Flying Association which in the early days promoted information and plans
for light aircraft. Planes discussed were small, light, generally single s
eaters, probably the- best known being-the Mignet Flying Flea. This con
tinued for many years. Planes became a bit bigger and more sophisticated an
d included factory built planes. Moths etc. Popular Flying was the magazine
for the light aircraft devotee.=0A>-=0A>Hang gliders came along which ev
olved into microlights. After a dodgy start with no regulation and a few de
aths an Association of microlight pilots was formed with their own magazine
. Luckily Anne Welch, who had been involved in the British Gliding Associat
ion since very early gliding days realised the parallels between the develo
pment of early microlights -and early gliders. She became involved and wi
th others piloted the emerging Microlight Assoc. into a position where they
ran their own autonomous Association, supplied instructors, agreed -thei
r own specifications of what a microlight was, their own inspectors, their
own licences for pilots and aircraft etc. -all under the auspices of the
-Board of Trade and CAA. The basis of `keep your nose clean and we won`t
interfere` was and is well established.government attitude.=0A>-=0A>Natur
ally there has been some conflict between the Popular Flying Assoc.,( now t
he Light Aircraft Assoc).,.and the Microlight fraternity over jurisdiction
and there have been efforts to merge the two organisations. These have fail
ed, unfortunately in my view, as I have to be a member of both- which is
unnecessarily expensive. The Light Aircraft Assoc has now approved their fi
rst four seater plane so is moving farther from the microlight end which is
my interest-.=0A>-=0A>Looking at your problems with the EAA from the o
utside it would seem that you either have to attend all EAA meetings, propo
se motions, get them seconded and passed by working the `proper` organisati
on route-and change things from the inside or form your own organisation.
=0A>-=0A>That of course means a lot of work for someone. A respected orga
nisation which can negotiate from strength on your behalf with the FAA, ins
urance companies etc has to be legal with a proper framework of representat
ion and so on- to be taken seriously.=0A>-=0A>Unfortunately the Experim
ental- attitude as with our Microlight attitude is not attractive to peop
le who only want to build and fly. Not mess about with `office work`=0A>Peo
ple who will do it can be found however,-we have proved it in the UK but
it is not easy.=0A>-=0A>Forgive a limey for intruding on your turf but-
roughly this is the way it has happened here, for what its worth=0A>-=0A
>Pat=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http
://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
==
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
> Doesn't sound like Einstein though. Any confirmation?
I dunno fer sure, wasn't there, but a number of years ago, prolly 20+ years,
I read the same quote and it was attributed to him then too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OFF TOPIC- but amazing- outside loop at 30'! |
You'll watch it at least 2 times!>>
While we are having this little break of `off topicitis` and grammar
checking I offer the quote above.
Whatever happened to `twice`? I have noticed that more and more often,
particularly but not exclusively by Americans `twice` seems to have dropped
out of use in favour of the more awkward `two times`
Odd isn`t it, that `twice` is acceptable yet we do not usually use `thrice`
Americans do not use `fortnight` for `two weeks` although it is normal in
the UK. `fortnight` in case you hadn`t made the connection is short for
`fourteen nights`
Yet we do not use `sennight` (short for seven nights`)
I do occasionally but I have a reputation as a miserable old curmudgeon to
keep up.
Cheers
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
| From: | "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com> |
Pat,
That quotation from Albert Einstein appears on the following web pages but who
can say if it is authentic?
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/9810.Albert_Einstein
http://www.alberteinsteinsite.com/quotes/einsteinquotes.html
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Truth is what stands the test of experience.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364184#364184
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior to the l
ast flight even though I did have
one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub plate
s 30 Hours prior to this
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>
Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 1:03 am
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Sorry for being into this thread late but I'd like to know Ellery, did you
ever notice any signs of trouble on the prop prior to failure, such as the
cracks or anything other than a normal smooth surface?
Thanks,
-Ben Ransom
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:25:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp
drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer
I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop W
ho do they think they are using the public as
a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on
there props to prevent this from happening again this is not
the first time this has happened to one of there props from what the FAA h
as told me
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart? Last I
remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factor
y Warp Drive.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447, Warp Drive prop
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
cs.com
matronics.com/contribution
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
That quotation from Albert Einstein >>
I have looked up the page you mentioned.
great Stuff. With so many quotes am surprised that he got any work done.
Its all relative I suppose.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior to the
last flight even though I did have
one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub plates
30 Hours prior to this
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
Ellery B/Kolbers:
Correct me if I am wrong.
The current version of solid carbon fiber WD blades has been in production
since the early 1990's. I tested a couple in the last 80's on the Firestar
and started using them on my MKIII in 1993, first on the 582 and then the
912's.
Weren't the blades you that failed on your MKIII a set of first run blades
manufactured prior to the beginning of the solid carbon fiber blades?
I believe there have been many improvements in WD blades since then. WD
changed hands and has been run by Daryl after those initial cored blades
were sold.
My memory is fuzzy, which is situation normal. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: changes in EAA? |
That quotation from Albert Einstein >>
I have looked up the page you mentioned.
********************************************
Kolbers:
We are getting way off base here.
Let's get back to the primary purpose of the Kolb List, building and flying
Kolbs.
Thanks,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com> |
yes my blades are from the earlier version
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:57 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior to the l
ast flight even though I did have
one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub plate
s 30 Hours prior to this
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
Ellery B/Kolbers:
Correct me if I am wrong.
The current version of solid carbon fiber WD blades has been in production
since the early 1990's. I tested a couple in the last 80's on the Firestar
and started using them on my MKIII in 1993, first on the 582 and then the
912's.
Weren't the blades you that failed on your MKIII a set of first run blades
manufactured prior to the beginning of the solid carbon fiber blades?
I believe there have been many improvements in WD blades since then. WD ch
anged hands and has been run by Daryl after those initial cored blades were
sold.
My memory is fuzzy, which is situation normal. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-= - The Kolb-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Back to topic! Kolb coolness! |
I agree! Therefore, here's some fun Kolb Firefly schtuff:
Engine and muffler mounting plate custom designed and fabricated by Bryan M
elborn at Kolb Co. specifically for my new Firefly's CRE mz201 engine:
http://phactor.com/mtgPlates_2.jpg
http://phactor.com/eng_a.jpg
http://phactor.com/eng_a3.jpg
I made the pulley myself:
http://phactor.com/psp4.jpg
Made the coil mount myself:
http://phactor.com/coil_c.jpg
http://phactor.com/coilParts.jpg
http://phactor.com/coilPlacement.jpg
And finally, I updated my mz201 weights and pics page with Bryan's engine/m
uffler mount weight/pics:
http://phactor.com/Kolb/201/201.htm
Phil H
FF-11-4-0076
--- On Wed, 1/18/12, John Hauck wrote:
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 9:57 AM
That quotation from Albert Einstein >>
I have looked up the page- you mentioned.
********************************************
Kolbers:
We are getting way off base here.
Let's get back to the primary purpose of the Kolb List, building and flying
Kolbs.
Thanks,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Kulp <undoctor(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Gap seal.... needed? |
***Kolb folks,
This link was posted a short time ago of a beautiful Kolb Mk III with a
Beemer R1100S engine. I have about 100K sitting on a BMW R engine and
love the sound. Beyond that, I noticed he was flying with no gap seal
and the plane seems to be very stable and controllable. I've never
tried it on my FF...** Any comments?*
*
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
*
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGLy1FCWVU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap seal.... needed? |
I know Mike..
He built this bird and flew it first of all with the std 582
engine...Back about the time the New Kolb came into existence..Bryan
and Norm flew over to Springfield Airport or Rough River and checked
it over..Superb workmanship..
I had gull wing doors on my MkIII rebuild several years
before...Still think it is the way to go...
Last I knew , it could be bought with or without the engine...Herb
At 11:52 AM 1/18/2012, you wrote:
>Kolb folks,
>
>This link was posted a short time ago of a beautiful Kolb Mk III
>with a Beemer R1100S engine. I have about 100K sitting on a BMW R
>engine and love the sound. Beyond that, I noticed he was flying
>with no gap seal and the plane seems to be very stable and
>controllable. I've never tried it on my FF... Any comments?
>
>Dave Kulp
>Bethlehem, PA
>FireFly 11DMK
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGLy1FCWVU>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGLy1FCWVU
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap seal.... needed? |
At 12:52 PM 1/18/2012, David Kulp wrote:
>...I noticed he was flying with no gap seal and the plane seems to be very
>stable and controllable. I've never tried it on my FF... Any comments?
I've never flown a FF, but I flew my Ultrastar without the gap seal. Once.
Looooong takeoff roll, poor climb, sloppy pitch control.
-Dana
--
Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back to topic! Kolb coolness! |
Phil, Hi Nice work you and Bryan did on your Firefly! Did you see my post o
n the info i got from Leon at MZ It turned out that the engine weighs 2 lbs
more with the fan cooling but Leon says as Im sure he told you that he has
no doubt about the free air cooling on the Firefly so the $560 for the fan
cooling might be saved .I guess Ill leave up to you to be the test pilot b
efore I order.=0AThat Bryan does some nice work. Is the rest the aircraft c
oming along well ?I hope to be able to afford a trip to my place and my Fir
efly in Florida maybe the first of March . Keep up the good work .Chris=0A
-=0A-=0A-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled f
rom crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
Phil =0ATo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday
, January 18, 2012 12:45 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Back to topic! Kolb cooln
ess!=0A=0AI agree! Therefore, here's some fun Kolb Firefly schtuff:=0AEngin
e and muffler mounting plate custom designed and fabricated by Bryan Melbor
n at Kolb Co. specifically for my new Firefly's CRE mz201 engine:http://pha
ctor.com/mtgPlates_2.jpghttp://phactor.com/eng_a.jpghttp://phactor.com/eng_
a3.jpg=0AI made the pulley myself:http://phactor.com/psp4.jpg=0AMade the co
il mount myself:http://phactor.com/coil_c.jpghttp://phactor.com/coilParts.j
pghttp://phactor.com/coilPlacement.jpg=0AAnd finally, I updated my mz201 we
ights and pics page with Bryan's engine/muffler mount weight/pics:http://ph
actor.com/Kolb/201/201.htm=0APhil HFF-11-4-0076--- On Wed, 1/18/12, John Ha
uck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:=0A=0A>From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.
com>=0A>Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?=0A>To: kolb-list@matron
ics.com=0A>Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 9:57 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Kolb-L
ist message posted by: "John Hauck" That quotation fr
om Albert Einstein >>I have looked up the page- you mentioned.***********
*********************************Kolbers:We are getting way off base here.L
et's get back to the primary purpose of the Kolb List, building and flyingK
olbs.Thanks,john hmkIII http://www.matronip; - - - - - - -
-========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back to topic! Kolb coolness! |
Nice work all around.
---- Phil wrote:
============
I agree! Therefore, here's some fun Kolb Firefly schtuff:
Engine and muffler mounting plate custom designed and fabricated by Bryan Melborn
at Kolb Co. specifically for my new Firefly's CRE mz201 engine:
http://phactor.com/mtgPlates_2.jpg
http://phactor.com/eng_a.jpg
http://phactor.com/eng_a3.jpg
I made the pulley myself:
http://phactor.com/psp4.jpg
Made the coil mount myself:
http://phactor.com/coil_c.jpg
http://phactor.com/coilParts.jpg
http://phactor.com/coilPlacement.jpg
And finally, I updated my mz201 weights and pics page with Bryan's engine/muffler
mount weight/pics:
http://phactor.com/Kolb/201/201.htm
Phil H
FF-11-4-0076
--- On Wed, 1/18/12, John Hauck wrote:
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 9:57 AM
That quotation from Albert Einstein >>
I have looked up the page you mentioned.
********************************************
Kolbers:
We are getting way off base here.
Let's get back to the primary purpose of the Kolb List, building and flying
Kolbs.
Thanks,
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
le, List Admin.
--
Ron @ KFHU
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back to topic! Kolb coolness! |
Yes, I saw your post; good information. It confirms what I also have found
by talking with CRE, and all the weights on my mz201 page are still accurat
e; although they do not include the fan shroud, which I didn't opt for.
http://phactor.com/Kolb/201/201.htm
Yes I will certainly be the mz201-on-a-Kolb-Firefly guinea pig and share th
e results; still a couple of months off. A couple of months ago I still had
to move from DE to TN, sell a home, buy a home, and THEN order a Firefly.
Well, got all that done! Building is going great; working on the electrical
and instruments now - almost half-way through the plane.
And yes, Bryan and Travis are wizards.
Phil H
FF-11-4-0076
--- On Wed, 1/18/12, chris davis wrote:
From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Back to topic! Kolb coolness!
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 2:01 PM
Phil, Hi Nice work you and Bryan did on your Firefly! Did you see my post o
n the info i got from Leon at MZ It turned out that the engine weighs 2 lbs
more with the fan cooling but Leon says as Im sure he told you that he has
no doubt about the free air cooling on the Firefly so the $560 for the fan
cooling might be saved .I guess Ill leave up to you to be the test pilot b
efore I order.
That Bryan does some nice work. Is the rest the aircraft coming along well
?I hope to be able to afford a trip to my place and my Firefly in Florida m
aybe the first of March . Keep up the good work .Chris
-
-
-
Chris Davis
KXP 503 492 hrs
Glider Pilot
Disabled from crash building Firefly
From: Phil <phactor9(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Back to topic! Kolb coolness!
I agree! Therefore, here's some fun Kolb Firefly schtuff:
Engine and muffler mounting plate custom designed and fabricated by Bryan M
elborn at Kolb Co. specifically for my new Firefly's CRE mz201 engine: http
://phactor.com/mtgPlates_2.jpg http://phactor.com/eng_a.jpg http://phactor.
com/eng_a3.jpg
I made the pulley myself: http://phactor.com/psp4.jpg
Made the coil mount myself: http://phactor.com/coil_c.jpg http://phactor.co
m/coilParts.jpg http://phactor.com/coilPlacement.jpg
And finally, I updated my mz201 weights and pics page with Bryan's engine/m
uffler mount weight/pics: http://phactor.com/Kolb/201/201.htm
Phil H FF-11-4-0076 --- On Wed, 1/18/12, John Hauck
wrote:
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 9:57 AM
uotation from Albert Einstein >> I have looked up the page- you mentioned
. ******************************************** Kolbers: We are getting way
off base here. Let's get back to the primary purpose of the Kolb List, buil
ding and flying Kolbs. Thanks, john h mkIII http://www.matronip; - -
- - - - - - - -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" ====
==
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gap seal.... needed? |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Dave, The need for a gap seal is an open question, IF the frame below the
engine is covered as it should be. Firefly's Firestar's and others don't
have this so their comments will be biased toward having the gap seal. I
first flew the Mk IIIX I've been working on for a year now, trying to track
down and fix all the stupid things the original builder did, without
either. It was an absolute disaster, the plane flew horribly. I built a gap
cover, it flew somewhat better, but still wasn't right. When I covered the
frame below the engine, the climb rate of the airplane instantly DOUBLED!
So, if the airplane has no gap seal and has the midframe covered it MIGHT
fly okay (emphasis on might, I haven't flown my IIIC or the IIIX in that
configuration). The other way around it will fly badly. With both the
airplane will fly wonderfully. I believe this is how the good folks at Kolb
meant it to be. Hope I didn't splatter too much mud on the topic.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Herb Gayheart wrote:
>
> I know Mike..
>
> He built this bird and flew it first of all with the std 582
> engine...Back about the time the New Kolb came into existence..Bryan and
> Norm flew over to Springfield Airport or Rough River and checked it
> over..Superb workmanship..
>
> I had gull wing doors on my MkIII rebuild several years before...Still
> think it is the way to go...
>
> Last I knew , it could be bought with or without the engine...Herb
>
>
> At 11:52 AM 1/18/2012, you wrote:
>
> *Kolb folks,
>
> This link was posted a short time ago of a beautiful Kolb Mk III with a
> Beemer R1100S engine. I have about 100K sitting on a BMW R engine and love
> the sound. Beyond that, I noticed he was flying with no gap seal and the
> plane seems to be very stable and controllable. I've never tried it on my
> FF... Any comments?*
> *
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
> FireFly 11DMK
> *
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGLy1FCWVU
>
>
> Email Forum -
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Just as a check, do all of you WD propped flyers know what a tap test is
for composites? Please don't be upset if you consider this basic, but some
of you might not know. You take a quarter and tap the composite structure
in question with the edge of the quarter, if you hear a nice crisp sound
the structure is solid in that area, if you hear a muffled thud sort of
sound there is a crack or a delamination in the area where you tapped. By
tapping all around the surface of the structure and marking each spot where
you got a thud, you can map the area of the problem.
Like I said, it may seem basic, but I've been surprised at some people who
didn't know but should.
To standardize the tap test the Boeing company actually had a calibrated
and certified tap test hammer made. I know this because my composites guru,
Joe Person, is an engineer at the Modification Center where they do all
sorts of custom adaptations of Boeing aircraft. He was doing a tap test on
a part one day and was asked why he wasn't using the correct tool. The
questioner then took Joe to the tool crib to check out the official Boeing
tap test hammer.
Before someone turns this into a $15,000 Government approved toilet seat
story, the Mod Center is part of Boeing Commercial, not Boeing Military.
Anyway, the tap test of a composite propeller should be on your worksheet
when you do your airplane's annual conditional inspection. Cracks can open
under strain and close when the strain is relieved, making them difficult
to find, but the tap test works every time.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr
wrote:
> **yes my blades are from the earlier version
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
> To: kolb-list
> Sent: Wed, Jan 18, 2012 9:57 am
> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop
>
>
> there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior
> to the last flight even though I did have
> one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub
> plates 30 Hours prior to this
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
> * *
>
>
> Ellery B/Kolbers:
>
>
> Correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> The current version of solid carbon fiber WD blades has been in production since
the early 1990's. I tested a couple in the last 80's on the Firestar and
started using them on my MKIII in 1993, first on the 582 and then the 912's.
>
>
> Weren't the blades you that failed on your MKIII a set of first run blades manufactured
prior to the beginning of the solid carbon fiber blades?
>
>
> I believe there have been many improvements in WD blades since then. WD changed
hands and has been run by Daryl after those initial cored blades were sold.
>
>
> My memory is fuzzy, which is situation normal. ;-)
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net> |
I took a x/c from central LA to Arkansas with some members of the local EAA club
last weekend. Since I have my new camera I decided to take it along for some
inflight video. I sliced a bunch of it together and posted it on youtube.
It is mostly take off's and landings though and is 4 parts. The link below is
to Part I.
It is amazing how many people think of my kolb as an ultralight and not a (real)
plane. Alot of the guys in the local EAA club were surprised I flew it that
far and/or in the cold and/or near some sort of mountains.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86C3TXc3_U&feature=plcp&context=C34b3a9cUDOEgsToPDskJVBOb7cawd1UVNVLkgsFiA
Travis Bennett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364257#364257
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
December 26, 2011 - January 18, 2012
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ma