Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-np
January 10, 2016 - February 06, 2016
> below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be watched. Weight
> increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway with radios, GPS,
> cameras etc.
> The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a bit
> of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a weak
> point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away. This
> caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a microlight.
> Cheers
> Pat
>
> *From:* Charlie England
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue
> that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't
> know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators
> to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build
> errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing
> tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause
> that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight in
> the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get Annual
> List below to Incentive Gifts href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>>http://www.matronics.com/cThank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
> Navigator Photoshare, and href
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>>http://www.matronicp;
> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com" >
> http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href
> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>>
> http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen
in the video I shot of the tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in
case...... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply
covering with the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to
the second set when they are cured and trimmed. This style of construction
was only possible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal
stabilizer set on the center line of the tube.
Rick
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka wrote:
>
> Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder
> effectiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
>
> I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover m
y
> Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figure o
ut
> how to install.
>
> --------
> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
> returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
>
> Mark Twain
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Rick- How do you fold it? It looks to be a rigid assembly.
Bill Sullivan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Wouldn't the air be going *down* through the tube-stabilizer gap? (Higher
pressure on top of the tail.) That would still reduce the rudder's
effectiveness, since vertical flow would disrupt horizontal flow across the
rudder.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Richard Girard
wrote:
> I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between
> the horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
> vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
> results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as se
en
> in the video I shot of the tests:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
>
> I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in
> case...... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply
> covering with the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to
> the second set when they are cured and trimmed. This style of constructio
n
> was only possible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal
> stabilizer set on the center line of the tube.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka wrote:
>
>>
>> Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder
>> effectiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
>>
>> I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover
>> my Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figu
re
>> out how to install.
>>
>> --------
>> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
>> returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
>>
>> Mark Twain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> br> fts!)
>> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Couldn't the seals be attached to the boom tube under the horizontal stab.
so it could be folded. Also if properly braced it might take the place of t
he upper wire bracing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:06:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
Wouldn't the air be going *down* through the tube-stabilizer gap? (Higher p
ressure on top of the tail.) That would still reduce the rudder's effective
ness, since vertical flow would disrupt horizontal flow across the rudder.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Richard Girard < aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com > wr
ote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more vertica
lly over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the results of
tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen in the vi
deo I shot of the tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in case...
... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply covering wi
th the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to the second se
t when they are cured and trimmed. This style of construction was only poss
ible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal stabilizer set on the
center line of the tube.
Rick
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka < wakataka(at)charter.net > wrote:
Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder effe
ctiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover my
Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figure out
how to install.
--------
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale retur
ns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
===========
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com " rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> www.builde
rsbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Callfas <kkcmax(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 |
You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly any
were but up and around!
--- Original Message ---
From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 Prototype
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
> weight in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cThank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp;
> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron trim |
Date: Jan 03, 2016
From: Richard Girard
---------------------------
< Doubtful it is caused by torque, at least no Kolb I've ever flown
has had the tendency. >
-------------------------
If you have an engine on an aircraft there will always be a torque
component in play as long as the engine is operating under load.
For example, a Rotax 912 81 hp engine generates 75.9 ft-lb torque at
4800 rpm. Add a 2.43:1 gear box and the torque at the propeller goes
to 184 ft-lb. This means it will take about an 18 lb vertical force
at the wing tip to keep the wings level.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
>At 11:56 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot
between the horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to
go more vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base
this on the results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear
fuselage segment as seen in the video I shot of the tests:
>
Rick,
I believe if you check it out you will find that while you are in
level flight the tail has to exert a downward force. This means the
air pressure on top of the horizontal stabilizer will be greater than
that found on the bottom side. Air will always move from high to low
pressure. So, if any air is moving through the gap, it will be down
through the gap not up.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
What if the tail section is on a few feet from the prop which is generating
a very strong rotating column of air directly on the tail section?
Air flow over the tail of a Kolb is interesting based on prop wash. I get a
pretty good idea of what the air is doing based on crankcase residue being
blown from the vent tube and sticking to the tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
>At 11:56 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen
in the video I shot of the tests:
>
Rick,
I believe if you check it out you will find that while you are in level
flight the tail has to exert a downward force. This means the air pressure
on top of the horizontal stabilizer will be greater than that found on the
bottom side. Air will always move from high to low pressure. So, if any
air is moving through the gap, it will be down through the gap not up.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 |
Keith Callfas:
Where did you get your information on Kolbs?
Kolbs are definitely airplanes. They have fixed wings, an engine, and fly.
I don't know what you mean by up and around. I know a few Kolbs that have
flown and are still flying up and around all over the US, Canada, and
Alaska.
Are you familiar with Kolb aircraft?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Callfas
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly
any were but up and around!
--- Original Message ---
From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web
Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML
for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message
Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kolb-List
Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with
a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2016-01-09&Archive=Kolb
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are adding
11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with
a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the strut
mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight in the
right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 Prototype
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue
that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't know
how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to
land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build
errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing
tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause
that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>> What the
> hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are adding 11
> ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
> weight in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cThank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matroni
> cp; the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
> c===============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 |
Keith
Did you know you were posting to the Kolb list??? Many of our planes fly substantial
distances. I was a bit insulted.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MkIII
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly any
were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
>> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cThank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp;
>> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 |
| From: | kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
Keith
Nothing personal, but you are VERY uninformed (AKA ignorant) about Kolbs.
Do a little research
Russ K
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly any
were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cThank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp;
>> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bradley Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 |
No they only fly short hops like this:
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/johnhauck2.htm
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 12:28 , Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to
fly any were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> ========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C
hapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch
apter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
>
> ========================
=======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
=======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then,
we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between
tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator
probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cT
hank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp
;
>> the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=
==============
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Callfas <kkcmax(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 01/10/16 |
I have two also have well over 100 hours driving ultralight of many kinds t
he base for all of Kolb but at best a mark Xtra is a over grown Firestarter
they are not mentioned to have glass cockpits rockets bombs or all the stu
ff people want to stuff in the wings they are ment to have fun with not to
fly to Alaska in sorry but you asked for my 2 cents
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: 01/11/2016 3:04 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 01/10/16
*
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm
l&Chapter 16-01-10&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt
&Chapter 16-01-10&Archive=Kolb
========================
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sun 01/10/16: 14
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
2. 07:58 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Martin Koxxy)
3. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Richard Girard)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (william sullivan)
5. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Charlie England)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (mojavjoe(at)comcast.n
et)
7. 11:44 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 (Keith Callfas)
8. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Aileron trim (Jack B. Hart)
9. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (Jack B. Hart)
10. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals (John Hauck)
11. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 (John Hauck
)
12. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 (Richard Ne
ilsen)
13. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 (kinne russ
)
14. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16 (Bradley Na
tion)
________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Hi Charlie,
i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone in
a ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary
complication like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves.
As far as the extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight
to keep ultralight below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be
watched. Weight increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway
with radios, GPS, cameras etc.
The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a
bit of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a
weak point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away.
This caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a
microlight.
Cheers
Pat
From: Charlie England
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
p; the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===============
________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
From: Martin Koxxy <martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com>
Mark Beierle, the designer of the Earthstar line of planes (Thundergull,
Gull 2000, Odyssey), makes exactly that point. Ultralights and
near-ultralights tend to be flown a lot more by seat-of-the-pants and
exterior view clues than by instruments, and the added weight and
complication goes contrary to the Ultralight "spirit".
That said, while learning to fly my eGull, I would have appreciated an LRI
or AOA (angle of attack) indicator to calibrate myself. But now, after only
10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is well under way, and my
instrument scans are getting shorter and less frequent, with more attention
paid to the sight picture (and traffic in the pattern).
Weight: If I had gone through with an AOA instrument, I would have added
only a second, angled pitot tube and hose, and my GRT EFIS would have been
able to display AOA on the screen - a weight penalty in the 3-4 oz range.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Patrick Ladd
wrote:
> Hi Charlie,
> i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone in a
> ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary complication
> like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves. As far as the
> extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight to keep ultralig
ht
> below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be watched. Weight
> increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway with radios, GPS,
> cameras etc.
> The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a bi
t
> of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a weak
> point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away. This
> caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a microlight.
> Cheers
> Pat
>
> *From:* Charlie England
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue
> that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't
> know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicato
rs
> to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build
> errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing
> tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause
> that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
in
> the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get Annual
> List below to Incentive Gifts href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on"
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>>http://www.matronics.com/cThank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
> Navigator Photoshare, and href
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List"
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>>http://www.matronicp;
> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com" >
> http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp; href
> "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>>
> http://www.matronics.com/c===============
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 ______________________________
_______
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen
in the video I shot of the tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in
case...... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply
covering with the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to
the second set when they are cured and trimmed. This style of construction
was only possible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal
stabilizer set on the center line of the tube.
Rick
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka wrote:
>
> Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder
> effectiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
>
> I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover m
y
> Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figure o
ut
> how to install.
>
> --------
> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
> returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
>
> Mark Twain
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________ Message 4 ______________________________
_______
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
Rick- How do you fold it? It looks to be a rigid assembly.
Bill Sullivan
________________________________ Message 5 ______________________________
_______
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Wouldn't the air be going *down* through the tube-stabilizer gap? (Higher
pressure on top of the tail.) That would still reduce the rudder's
effectiveness, since vertical flow would disrupt horizontal flow across the
rudder.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Richard Girard
wrote:
> I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between
> the horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
> vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
> results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as se
en
> in the video I shot of the tests:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
>
> I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in
> case...... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply
> covering with the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to
> the second set when they are cured and trimmed. This style of constructio
n
> was only possible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal
> stabilizer set on the center line of the tube.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka wrote:
>
>>
>> Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder
>> effectiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
>>
>> I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover
>> my Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figu
re
>> out how to install.
>>
>> --------
>> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
>> returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
>>
>> Mark Twain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =========
>> br> fts!)
>> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> =========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> =========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
>> =========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 ______________________________
_______
From: mojavjoe(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
Couldn't the seals be attached to the boom tube under the horizontal stab.
so it could be folded. Also if properly braced it might take the place of t
he upper wire bracing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:06:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
Wouldn't the air be going *down* through the tube-stabilizer gap? (Higher p
ressure on top of the tail.) That would still reduce the rudder's effective
ness, since vertical flow would disrupt horizontal flow across the rudder.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Richard Girard < aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com > wr
ote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more vertica
lly over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the results of
tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen in the vi
deo I shot of the tests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG796iiymYw
I attached photos of the gap seals to the original post but just in case...
... The photo shows the second set of seals with their peel ply covering wi
th the first set of seals all trimmed up and ready to bond to the second se
t when they are cured and trimmed. This style of construction was only poss
ible because the "plane from hell" had the horizontal stabilizer set on the
center line of the tube.
Rick
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:49 PM, wakataka < wakataka(at)charter.net > wrote:
Any idea why sealing the elevator gap had such an effect on the rudder effe
ctiveness? I wouldn't have expected that.
I'd love to see a photo of the seals you built. I'm planning to recover my
Firestar next year and gap seals are one of the things I need to figure out
how to install.
--------
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale retur
ns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451801#451801
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com " rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> www.builde
rsbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
________________________________ Message 7 ______________________________
_______
From: Keith Callfas <kkcmax(at)msn.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly
any
were but up and around!
--- Original Message ---
From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
*
========================
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
========================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm
l&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt
&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
========================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
________________________________ Message 1 ______________________________
_______
From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 Prototype
________________________________ Message 2 ______________________________
_______
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
> weight in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
p;
> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
==============
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 ______________________________
_______
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Aileron trim
From: Richard Girard
---------------------------
< Doubtful it is caused by torque, at least no Kolb I've ever flown
has had the tendency. >
-------------------------
If you have an engine on an aircraft there will always be a torque
component in play as long as the engine is operating under load.
For example, a Rotax 912 81 hp engine generates 75.9 ft-lb torque at
4800 rpm. Add a 2.43:1 gear box and the torque at the propeller goes
to 184 ft-lb. This means it will take about an 18 lb vertical force
at the wing tip to keep the wings level.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________ Message 9 ______________________________
_______
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
>At 11:56 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot
between the horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to
go more vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base
this on the results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear
fuselage segment as seen in the video I shot of the tests:
>
Rick,
I believe if you check it out you will find that while you are in
level flight the tail has to exert a downward force. This means the
air pressure on top of the horizontal stabilizer will be greater than
that found on the bottom side. Air will always move from high to low
pressure. So, if any air is moving through the gap, it will be down
through the gap not up.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________ Message 10 _____________________________
_______
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
What if the tail section is on a few feet from the prop which is generating
a very strong rotating column of air directly on the tail section?
Air flow over the tail of a Kolb is interesting based on prop wash. I get
a
pretty good idea of what the air is doing based on crankcase residue being
blown from the vent tube and sticking to the tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
>At 11:56 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote:
I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between the
horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as seen
in the video I shot of the tests:
>
Rick,
I believe if you check it out you will find that while you are in level
flight the tail has to exert a downward force. This means the air pressure
on top of the horizontal stabilizer will be greater than that found on the
bottom side. Air will always move from high to low pressure. So, if any
air is moving through the gap, it will be down through the gap not up.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________ Message 11 _____________________________
_______
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
Keith Callfas:
Where did you get your information on Kolbs?
Kolbs are definitely airplanes. They have fixed wings, an engine, and fly.
I don't know what you mean by up and around. I know a few Kolbs that have
flown and are still flying up and around all over the US, Canada, and
Alaska.
Are you familiar with Kolb aircraft?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Callfas
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fly
any were but up and around!
--- Original Message ---
From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
*
========================
========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the two We
b
Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML
for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message
Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kolb-Lis
t
Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with
a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Ch
apter
16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Cha
pter
2016-01-09&Archive=Kolb
========================
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=====================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are addin
g
11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with
a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the strut
mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight in the
right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 Prototype
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue
that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't kno
w
how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to
land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build
errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing
tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause
that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>> What the
> hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are adding 11
> ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
> *From:* Nick Cassara
> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
> weight in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cTh
ank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matroni
> cp; the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
> c==============
>
>
________________________________ Message 12 _____________________________
_______
From: Richard Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
Keith
Did you know you were posting to the Kolb list??? Many of our planes fly su
bstantial
distances. I was a bit insulted.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MkIII
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fl
y any
were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> ========================
========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
========================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=ht
ml&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=tx
t&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
>
> ========================
======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
>> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
cThank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matroni
cp;
>> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c==============
>
>
________________________________ Message 13 _____________________________
_______
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Keith
Nothing personal, but you are VERY uninformed (AKA ignorant) about Kolbs.
Do a little research
Russ K
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to fl
y any
were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> ========================
========================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
========================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=ht
ml&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=tx
t&Chapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
>
> ========================
======================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
======================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
cThank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matroni
cp;
>> the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c==============
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________ Message 14 _____________________________
_______
From: Bradley Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
No they only fly short hops like this:
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/johnhauck2.htm
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 12:28 , Keith Callfas wrote:
>
>
> You people act like these are airplanes they are air carts not ment to
fly any were but up and around!
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "Kolb-List Digest Server" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> Sent: January 10, 2016 2:14 AM
> To: "Kolb-List Digest List"
> Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/09/16
>
>
> *
>
> =======================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =======================
>
> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&C
hapter 16-01-09&Archive=Kolb
>
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> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> =======================
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>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kolb-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 01/09/16: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:29 AM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Patrick Ladd)
> 2. 12:00 PM - Re: Weight in one wing...? (Charlie England)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>
> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>
> From: Nick Cassara
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>
>
> Hello Kolber flyers,
>
> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe
> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
the
> strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
weight
> in the right wing for balance?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
>
> Kolbra #1 Prototype
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
> From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
>
> LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
> argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then,
we
> don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
> indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
>
> As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
> build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
> with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between
tanks
> would cause that much imbalance.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
>> What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are
>> adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
>> *From:* Nick Cassara
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
>>
>> Hello Kolber flyers,
>>
>> I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator
probe
>> with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of
>> the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
>> weight in the right wing for balance?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>>
>> Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
>> Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cT
hank
>> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
>> nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp
;
>> the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> _p; generous bsp;
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=============
>>
>>
>
>
rsbooks.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 01/10/16 |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
No, we didn't ask for your two cents. In your previous post you just sort of popped
on, said something annoying (Like the anti-religion goober who was on last
fall) because your purpose is simply to stir stuff up.
You are nothing but an internet troll.
Unlike the rest of us, you have never contributed anything useful to the list,
or anything to edify or help anybody on this list, you are simply an annoying
pest.
Go away and don't come back until you learn some manners and have something useful
to contribute.
(And the lists's resident (and often unwelcome) pastor shakes the dust off his
feet... )
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451868#451868
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight in one wing...? |
But now, after only 10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is
well under way>>
Hi Martin, Always interesting how different pilots approach their
flying. Some load their planes with every gizmo known to man and some
(me) bare minimum No radio even most of the time.
After ten hours you shouldn`t need to look at your ASI at all when in
cruise. ( Although you may need to check speed on the approach) the
picture over the nose should be familiar enough to ignore the ASI. In
any case if you stall through lack of attention `So What`. Unless you
are near the ground or the plane drops a wing, a stall in a Kolb or
similar a/c is a non event. The nose just nods, you lose a bit of height
and then she flies again.. Note at what speed you stalled and don`t do
it again.
Cheers
Pat
. From: Martin Koxxy
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
Mark Beierle, the designer of the Earthstar line of planes (Thundergull,
Gull 2000, Odyssey), makes exactly that point. Ultralights and
near-ultralights tend to be flown a lot more by seat-of-the-pants and
exterior view clues than by instruments, and the added weight and
complication goes contrary to the Ultralight "spirit".
That said, while learning to fly my eGull, I would have appreciated an
LRI or AOA (angle of attack) indicator to calibrate myself. But now,
after only 10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is well under
way, and my instrument scans are getting shorter and less frequent, with
more attention paid to the sight picture (and traffic in the pattern).
Weight: If I had gone through with an AOA instrument, I would have added
only a second, angled pitot tube and hose, and my GRT EFIS would have
been able to display AOA on the screen - a weight penalty in the 3-4 oz
range.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Patrick Ladd
wrote:
Hi Charlie,
i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone
in a ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary
complication like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves.
As far as the extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight
to keep ultralight below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be
watched. Weight increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway
with radios, GPS, cameras etc.
The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a
bit of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a
weak point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away.
This caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a
microlight.
Cheers
Pat
From: Charlie England
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could
argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we
don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA
indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and
build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane
with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks
would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you
are adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Weight in one wing...?
mailto:nickc(at)mtaonline.net
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator
probe with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board
of the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of
weight in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get
Annual List below to Incentive Gifts
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
p; the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Weight in one wing...? |
> I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
I am sorta remembering a DIY AOA meter that was made from mostly plastic
tubing. IIRC it would only weigh a few oz. Details escape me, but I have it
documented somewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> |
| Subject: | Use of a Kolb...AOA |
Hello Kolb Flyers, Builders, and others
After years of being a student of the Kolb aircraft, it is my concussion that the
only limits of the Kolb Aircraft are the imaginations of the people building
and flying them.
As for the use and need for an AOAI live in Alaska, a fifth the size of the United
State of America, however there are very few airports, and a lot more gravel
bars, alpine meadows, coastal beaches, and rough patches of ice.
The modern AOA instruments are very valuable to people who fly the edges." The
FAA and the local flight safety organizations have been encouraging the insulation
of AOAs to save pilots lives. Moose kill a number of pilots every year, stall
spin accidents.
Before I retired, I spent many hundreds of hours in the back seat of a Super Cub,
identifying and counting wildlife with some of Alaskas best pilots, who have
thousands of hour in their planes. I however am not one of Alaska best pilots,
and If an AOA can keep me from making a fatal mistake the time to install,
and the expense will be well worth it.
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
607AK Kolb Kolbra #1
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
All, the reason I suspect that the flow through the slot is vertical is
because I found the effectiveness of the seals while doing stall testing.
When I held it in a falling leaf stall the aircraft was descending at over
1000 feet per minute. The elevator was deflected up to its limit. On top of
that the greater area of the rudder is above the horizontal stabilizer.
As far as propwash is concerned, the Plane from Hell had a 2.62 ratio
gearbox so at idle the prop was only spinning at 900 rpm or so. On my
airplane the "C" gearbox has 4.00 gears and prop rpm at idle is only 550
(it only turns 1500 at full throttle). I could detect no difference between
the two airplanes.
I do wish I'd tuft tested the rudder flow, but at the time I was content to
get one more thing on that damnable airplane fixed that I just moved on to
the next problem.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:59 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> What if the tail section is on a few feet from the prop which is generati
ng
> a very strong rotating column of air directly on the tail section?
>
> Air flow over the tail of a Kolb is interesting based on prop wash. I ge
t
> a
> pretty good idea of what the air is doing based on crankcase residue bein
g
> blown from the vent tube and sticking to the tail section.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
>
> -->
>
> >At 11:56 AM 1/10/2016, you wrote:
> I believe what happens is that the air leaking through the slot between t
he
> horizontal stabilizer and the boom tube causes the flow to go more
> vertically over the rudder rather than horizontally. I base this on the
> results of tuft testing I did on the Mk III's rear fuselage segment as se
en
> in the video I shot of the tests:
> >
>
>
> Rick,
>
> I believe if you check it out you will find that while you are in level
> flight the tail has to exert a downward force. This means the air pressu
re
> on top of the horizontal stabilizer will be greater than that found on th
e
> bottom side. Air will always move from high to low pressure. So, if any
> air is moving through the gap, it will be down through the gap not up.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Many years ago I made some gaps seals to go between the horizontal stab and the tube of my MKIII. The trick is having something that gets real close to the stab, but still allows the horizontal tail to fold up. Here is what I did: go to Lowes and get some 1/2" by 1/2" by 1/16" aluminum angle. Along the side that you will have next to the stab, you will glue some rubber u-channel from Aircraft Spruce, part # 05-02200 ( https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/uchannel.php?clickkey=429408 ) The stab folds up and down while just barely touching the rubber u-channel.
In front of the front hinge, the space is too wide, and you will need to use 3/4"
by 3/4" by 1/16" aluminum angle to fill up the gap. Also it was easier to get
everything to line up by having the piece in front of the hinge opposite -
or upside down - as it attached to the fuselage compared to the section behind
the hinge because the stab is not attached parallel to the tube, the front of
the stab is higher. This causes the gap to be bigger in front which means you
have to spacer out the front of the 1/2" angle away from the fuselage a bit to
keep it up against the stab. Which means you have to bend the aluminum angle
a bit to keep it at a constant angle against the stab, and you need to fill that
space between the tube and the angle with balsa wood or similar to fill the
gap and make it look right.
Hopefully the pictures will make sense.
One other thing - if you put the u-channel on last, don't use Gorilla glue. It
sticks great, but it also bubbles out underneath and looks terrible. As you can
see.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451922#451922
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_lower_gapjpg_234.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_lower_gapjpg_845.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_right_gapjpg_567.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_front_gapjpg_595.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use of a Kolb...AOA |
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
After reading about this subject quite a few times, I decided to do
something about it. I looked on Bing ( Boycotting Google) and found that it
was basically a weather vane with a graph. No reason that it could not be
duplicated in a manner that Herb would approve of. So below are pictures
of what should do the job just as well as one from Sporty's.
It is installed where I don't have to be too far from my main landing
instrument - ASI, so all that is left is to take a sharpie with me the next
time I go flying and find the " Aw shit" position, make a mark on the lexan
.
Larry
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Nick Cassara wrote:
>
>
> Before I retired, I spent many hundreds of hours in the back seat of a
> Super Cub, identifying and counting wildlife with some of Alaska=99
s best
> pilots, who have thousands of hour in their planes. I however am not one
of
> Alaska best pilots, and If an AOA can keep me from making a fatal mistake
> the time to install, and the expense will be well worth it.
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, Alaska
>
> 607AK Kolb Kolbra #1
>
> --
>
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Use of a Kolb...AOA |
If nothing else, the price is right.
Waiting for a flight/stall report.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Use of a Kolb...AOA
After reading about this subject quite a few times, I decided to do
something about it. I looked on Bing ( Boycotting Google) and found that
it was basically a weather vane with a graph. No reason that it could
not be duplicated in a manner that Herb would approve of. So below are
pictures of what should do the job just as well as one from Sporty's.
It is installed where I don't have to be too far from my main landing
instrument - ASI, so all that is left is to take a sharpie with me the
next time I go flying and find the " Aw shit" position, make a mark on
the lexan.
Larry
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Nick Cassara
wrote:
Before I retired, I spent many hundreds of hours in the back seat of a
Super Cub, identifying and counting wildlife with some of
Alaska=99s best pilots, who have thousands of hour in their
planes. I however am not one of Alaska best pilots, and If an AOA can
keep me from making a fatal mistake the time to install, and
the expense will be well worth it.
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Alaska
607AK Kolb Kolbra #1
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Use of a Kolb...AOA |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
if John's happy then I am plum tickled to death!! :-) Herb or the
other Herb
On 01/12/2016 04:05 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> If nothing else, the price is right.
>
> Waiting for a flight/stall report.
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry
> Cottrell
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 12, 2016 2:44 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Use of a Kolb...AOA
>
> After reading about this subject quite a few times, I decided to do
> something about it. I looked on Bing ( Boycotting Google) and found
> that it was basically a weather vane with a graph. No reason that it
> could not be duplicated in a manner that Herb would approve of. So
> below are pictures of what should do the job just as well as one from
> Sporty's.
>
> It is installed where I don't have to be too far from my main landing
> instrument - ASI, so all that is left is to take a sharpie with me the
> next time I go flying and find the " Aw shit" position, make a mark on
> the lexan.
>
> Larry
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Nick Cassara > wrote:
>
> >
>
>
> Before I retired, I spent many hundreds of hours in the back seat of a
> Super Cub, identifying and counting wildlife with some of Alaskas
> best pilots, who have thousands of hour in their planes. I however am
> not one of Alaska best pilots, and If an AOA can keep me from making a
> fatal mistake the time to install, and the expense will be well worth it.
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, Alaska
>
> 607AK Kolb Kolbra #1
>
> --
>
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
>
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
>
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> |
I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube. My M3X
flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement if I add the
stab. to tube seal?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451957#451957
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
As I said in my first email, you get improved rudder control and the
ability to pick up a wing with the rudder during an approach stall.
Rick
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>
> I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube.
> My M3X flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement
> if I add the stab. to tube seal?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451957#451957
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I
think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit of
my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the cost of a
piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I found it very
informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain and snow, both
highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be able to do any
testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Rex Rodebush wrote:
> I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube. My M3X
flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement if I add
the stab. to tube seal?
I had two reasons: one is that with a heavy passenger, my MKIII did not have enough
elevator authority at max forward CG and minimum airspeeds. The vortex generators
on the wings give the ability to fly an approach at 45 mph with a 26
mph stall speed, even with a passenger. But at those speeds and CG conditions,
when it comes time to flare, pulling the stick back did not raise the nose, the
AOA did not change with elevator movement.
However, gap sealing the elevators to the horizontal stab, sealing the stab to
the fuslelage, and adding VG's to the underside of the stab gave more control
authority in that particular situation, the elevators became more effective.
The second is that many years ago I got obsessive about removing all the drag I
could, I wanted to be able to cruise at 65 with the lowest possible throttle
setting, and any sort of gap like that adds drag.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451969#451969
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on
the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I
think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Richard:
Did you make one change at a time and test after each change?
Where did you place the vg's on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer?
I didn't realize how much the flaps stole air from the elevators until I did
a little experiment with a 220 lb passenger. I had been demonstrating some
aggressive stalls, dives, and pull outs, when I got the idea to try it with
full flaps. On my Kolb MKIII that is 40 degrees. Pushed the nose straight
down, hit 85 mph, tried to do an abrupt pull out and the aircraft never
changed attitude with the stick full back. Got rid of the flaps and she
pulled right out.
After that experiment I could then understand the possibility of running out
of elevator at extremely slow speeds with a heavy passenger on landing.
I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII. Now I need to buy some,
probably from John Gilpin . Dan Horton, one of my airplane buddies has said
he will give me a hand with the install. How far back from the leading edge
do you place the front edge of the vg for best all around results.
Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 6:56 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
Rex Rodebush wrote:
> I've got gap seals on everything but the horiz. stab. to fuselage tube.
My M3X flies good it seems to me. What would be the expected improvement if
I add the stab. to tube seal?
I had two reasons: one is that with a heavy passenger, my MKIII did not have
enough elevator authority at max forward CG and minimum airspeeds. The
vortex generators on the wings give the ability to fly an approach at 45 mph
with a 26 mph stall speed, even with a passenger. But at those speeds and CG
conditions, when it comes time to flare, pulling the stick back did not
raise the nose, the AOA did not change with elevator movement.
However, gap sealing the elevators to the horizontal stab, sealing the stab
to the fuslelage, and adding VG's to the underside of the stab gave more
control authority in that particular situation, the elevators became more
effective.
The second is that many years ago I got obsessive about removing all the
drag I could, I wanted to be able to cruise at 65 with the lowest possible
throttle setting, and any sort of gap like that adds drag.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451969#451969
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> |
I don't have V.G.'s but was able to do a full stall landing with a 220# passenger.
I do have the larger horizontal stabilizer that was called for shortly after
the original Xtra came out. That may be a factor.
The drag reduction makes good sense so I'll probably go ahead and put the seals
on. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451974#451974
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
John; it's been a while, but as I remember, I put the VG's on the underside of
the horizontal stab, test flew it, made a lot of landings, ssaw improvement. Then
I put gap seals between the stab & the elevator, same tests, saw more improvement.
Then I added the gap seal between the stab and the fuselage, did not
notice much difference.
The VG's on the underside of the stab are in a straight line; the innermost one has it's back end at 7" aft of the leading edge, measured with the ruler parallel to the boom tube. The outermost one is at the hinge line and 7" from the outboard end. I have no idea if this location is optimum, I had read that 10% of chord is a good rule of thumb, so I put them there, did not experiment with moving them around. Jack Hart has his right behind the leading edge: http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly62.html
This page shows them at a fixed distance ahead of the hinge line http://www.vortex-generators.com/installation-of-vortex-generators.html as does this one http://www.speedcomfly.com/sito-ecommerce/file_info/vortex.pdf
If you would like to try several different locations to find the optimum and let
us know, I will gladly move mine to a better position!
My web pages are now on George Alexander's web site, where I've got some fairly extensive details on how I did the VG thing. Here is the one for the MKIII: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html
Here is the one for the FSII: some of the data overlaps a bit and it is also useful. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/FSII%20Vortex%20Generators.html
Something you might think of trying, - and I enjoyed doing the process - take your
VG's and tape them on and try different measurements. I would use little squares
of that aluminum metal duct tape, cut a slot in the middle of the square
and poke the VG through, apply to wing, go fly, make notes. Move them to a different
spot and do it again. That is how I came to the conclusion as to where
they worked best on my airplane. When you hit the sweet spot, you can tell.
It is subtle and subjective, but you will know it when it happens. OTOH, if you
just took my numbers and used them, you would still like it, but that might
not be the ideal setup for Miss P'Fer, and as much work as you have put into
the airplane over the years, you ought to go for ideal rather than just better.
Besides, once you get involved in the process; slow flying, stalling, moving
them to a new spot, flying again, better here, not as good there - it becomes
quite intriguing. A Quest for Perfection, very addictive.
When you get done, you will find that you now have a different airplane. Kind of
like taking Sweet Thing out to dinner, and suddenly realizing that she has somehow
lost 50 pounds and become 20 years younger... Enjoy!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451979#451979
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
John Hauck wrote:
> Richard:
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII.
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> --
Well, without a doubt, someone has hacked his account and posing as John Hauck.
Either that or the cold has gotten to him. Based on the quote above about
installing VGs on his Kolb MK III one or the other has to be the case.
:D :D :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451981#451981
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
John,
VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a
little more nose up.
If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may
want to try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing,
they move the wings center of lift toward the tail. Since this
effect is over a much greater area and length, it may produce a
greater favorable effect than just putting them on the horizontal
stabilizer.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
John
Hope you=99re not completely blue. It=99s a balmy 17F here
now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I=99d hear you say VG=99s without cussing. In
a day or 2 I=99ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by
the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing,
gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
>
> Turning blue at hauck's holler.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
> PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn
on the Lexan and see if it will work.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
>
> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
> Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube.
I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
> Larry
> --
> The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
>
> If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net> |
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> A very elegant solution
>
> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>
>> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>
>
> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
> looking forward.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Over the years folks on this List have assumed that I do not like VGs.
That assumption was and is entirely incorrect.
My stand on VGs has always been, in the past, that I did not need them
on my MKIII. Until recently I was a much better pilot than I am now.
Two reasons:
-Age.
-Not flying nearly as much as I used to. I am rusty and will be rusty
until I decide I want to fly much more frequently.
Flying Larry Cottrell's FSII convinced me that VGs help make a
difference landing for old pilots that are rusty as Hell. Why not take
advantage of that change/improvement?
Never said I did not like VGs.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kinne russ
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
John
Hope you=99re not completely blue. It=99s a balmy 17F here
now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I=99d hear you say VG=99s without cussing. In
a day or 2 I=99ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by
the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing,
gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck wrote:
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on
the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: <mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: AOA
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I
think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more
weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit
of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the
cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I
found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain
and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be
able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
tail section.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
John,
VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a little
more nose up.
If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may want to
try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing, they move the wings
center of lift toward the tail. Since this effect is over a much greater
area and length, it may produce a greater favorable effect than just putting
them on the horizontal stabilizer.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
Thanks for the info.
I plan to get started on this as soon as I get some VGs and the weather
warms up a bit.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 2:57 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
John; it's been a while, but as I remember, I put the VG's on the underside
of the horizontal stab, test flew it, made a lot of landings, ssaw
improvement. Then I put gap seals between the stab & the elevator, same
tests, saw more improvement. Then I added the gap seal between the stab and
the fuselage, did not notice much difference.
The VG's on the underside of the stab are in a straight line; the innermost
one has it's back end at 7" aft of the leading edge, measured with the ruler
parallel to the boom tube. The outermost one is at the hinge line and 7"
from the outboard end. I have no idea if this location is optimum, I had
read that 10% of chord is a good rule of thumb, so I put them there, did not
experiment with moving them around. Jack Hart has his right behind the
leading edge: http://www.jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly62.html
This page shows them at a fixed distance ahead of the hinge line
http://www.vortex-generators.com/installation-of-vortex-generators.html
as does this one
http://www.speedcomfly.com/sito-ecommerce/file_info/vortex.pdf
If you would like to try several different locations to find the optimum and
let us know, I will gladly move mine to a better position!
My web pages are now on George Alexander's web site, where I've got some
fairly extensive details on how I did the VG thing. Here is the one for the
MKIII: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html
Here is the one for the FSII: some of the data overlaps a bit and it is also
useful. http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/FSII%20Vortex%20Generators.html
Something you might think of trying, - and I enjoyed doing the process -
take your VG's and tape them on and try different measurements. I would use
little squares of that aluminum metal duct tape, cut a slot in the middle of
the square and poke the VG through, apply to wing, go fly, make notes. Move
them to a different spot and do it again. That is how I came to the
conclusion as to where they worked best on my airplane. When you hit the
sweet spot, you can tell. It is subtle and subjective, but you will know it
when it happens. OTOH, if you just took my numbers and used them, you would
still like it, but that might not be the ideal setup for Miss P'Fer, and as
much work as you have put into the airplane over the years, you ought to go
for ideal rather than just better. Besides, once you get involved in the
process; slow flying, stalling, moving them to a new spot, flying again,
better here, not as good there - it becomes quite intriguing. A Quest for
Perfection, very add!
ictive.
When you get done, you will find that you now have a different airplane.
Kind of like taking Sweet Thing out to dinner, and suddenly realizing that
she has somehow lost 50 pounds and become 20 years younger... Enjoy!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451979#451979
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
I'll be alright. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Alexander
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 3:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
-->
John Hauck wrote:
> Richard:
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> I have decided to install vg's on my MKIII.
>
> = S = N = I = P
>
> Too cold to play airplane at Gantt International Airport, Alabama.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
> --
Well, without a doubt, someone has hacked his account and posing as John
Hauck. Either that or the cold has gotten to him. Based on the quote
above about installing VGs on his Kolb MK III one or the other has to be the
case.
:D :D :D :D
HAPPY NEW YEAR Everyone!
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451981#451981
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in
the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of
sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to
the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the
> alum first.
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Larry,
>
> A very elegant solution
>
> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>
>
> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
> looking forward.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals |
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
tail section.
john h
mkIII
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any Kolb will fly better with VG's only on the wings. I flew that way for
quite a long time, but I noticed with the increased lift from the wing,
that when landing my tail wheel was touching down first. When I would come
in to land and I tried to flare, the tail would go right on through to the
ground rather than flare with the wings. I finally decided that the wings
were blanking much of the air from the elevator. The rest was lost at the
steep angle of the elevator in relation to the wind. I installed four VG's
on each side of the elevator, on the bottom, right at the hinge point. The
result was that I was able to make three point landings much easier, since
my tail was still flying.
Perhaps there are better places than the hinge line to install VG's, but
the ones that I did install have improved the situation tremendously. It
only makes sense that if there are VG's on the wings, they will hold the
air longer before stalling. The tail with none, will stall before the wing
in a landing configuration.
FWIW
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:02 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> I plan to eventually install VGs on the wings first. Then I'll work on the
> tail section.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack B. Hart
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:02 PM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Horizontal stabilizer seals
>
> -->
>
> John,
>
> VG's under the horizontal stabilizer leading edge will give you a little
> more nose up.
>
> If the VG's do not do the job for you with the full flaps, you may want to
> try them on the wing too. By placing VG's on the wing, they move the wings
> center of lift toward the tail. Since this effect is over a much greater
> area and length, it may produce a greater favorable effect than just
> putting
> them on the horizontal stabilizer.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Quick scan, cross check?
In a Kolb, any model, I find the ASI works great to prevent stalls.
There is very little difference in air speed between a straight and
level stall and an accelerated stall.
I realize the subject is AOA. Guess I am trying to say I don't think I
need one. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in
the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of
sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to
the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the
alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
wrote:
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
Charlie England via
matronics.com
8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral
vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it
audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places.
However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so. :-)
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am
sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other
unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I
am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be
happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
> On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
> first.
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
> wrote:
>
>> jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> A very elegant solution
>>
>> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>>
>>
>> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
>> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
>> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
>> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
>> looking forward.
>>
>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>> Winchester, IN
>>
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
KISS John. I agree with you. Pat
From: John Hauck
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 3:39 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: AOA
Quick scan, cross check?
In a Kolb, any model, I find the ASI works great to prevent stalls.
There is very little difference in air speed between a straight and
level stall and an accelerated stall.
I realize the subject is AOA. Guess I am trying to say I don't think I
need one. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in
the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of
sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to
the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the
alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
wrote:
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
After reading the attached NTSB article, I may have to rethink my attitude
toward AOA Instruments.
In my early years of flying Kolbs I got pretty aggressive at times. One of
my favorite exercises was to impress the crowd with approach and landing
right on the edge of stall all the way to the ground. In the Ultrastar and
Firestar I could keep the Winter venturi operated ASI, designed for gliders,
right on 25 mph, the very edge of stall. If I got a half needle width below
25 the aircraft would start nibbling at the stall. This was great, a lot of
fun, until the couple times when the wind stopped blowing. It is a very
helpless feeling falling in a stall 20, 30, 50 feet above the ground.
While I was typing this I remembered a third incident where I stalled from
approximately 50 feet AGL, on takeoff, in my MKIII, loaded to max, cargo and
fuel, field elevation 6,539 feet, very high air temp, dust devils (clear air
type that one cannot see) in the area at Grants Airport, New Mexico. High,
turbulent cross wind. Soon as I started descending in a mush I went full
throttle, tried to push the stick forward, although I don't think I did a
very good job of it, got blown off the runway center line, and smacked down
very hard into the desert sand, bounced back into the air and continued
flying. Was lucky I did not do more damage than rearrange the 4130 gear
legs on my MKIII. Only my second take off from a high altitude airport
since I departed near sea level conditions on my flight to Monument Valley
from Alabama, May 2009. My muscle memory had me at sea level, not 6,539
feet MSL.
An AOA would probably have prevented the NM stall. I don't know about the
first two. Stupid is as stupid does. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
Larry:
If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm and
a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an audio device.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
Charlie England via matronics.com
8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset,
or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering.
If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in
front can go unnoticed. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision.
It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or
with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to
admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so. :-)
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure
that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables
enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change
and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England < ceengland7(at)gmail.com > wrote:
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset,
or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering.
If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in
front can go unnoticed. :-)
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and
see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the
yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart < jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net > wrote:
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
< https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s > https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before
sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
If the indicating arm is far enough out towards the nose, the air should
flow in a straight line. Assuming that it does and its position is
discernible to the pilot, you might not need a light or horn. Most of my
landings do not have or require any serious movement of the stick until I
get within a foot or so of the ground.
I would however be interested in any thing that you could find that would
make it an audible or visual indicator.
Larry
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:01 PM, wrote:
> Larry:
> If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm
> and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an
> audio device.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: AOA
>
> Charlie England via
> matronics.com
> 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
> to kolb-list
>
>
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my
> peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually
> make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper
> places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so. :-)
>
> I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am
> sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other
> unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I
> am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be
> happy to change.
>
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England
> wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
>> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
>> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
>> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>>
>> On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
>> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
>> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
>> first.
>> Larry
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
>>>
>>> Larry,
>>>
>>> A very elegant solution
>>>
>>> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>>>
>>>
>>> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
>>> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
>>> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
>>> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
>>> looking forward.
>>>
>>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>>> Winchester, IN
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
I'm thinking install a micro switch. Install a light on top of the dash.
Set the light to come on 5 mph above the stall
Boyd
On Jan 15, 2016 6:07 PM, wrote:
> Larry:
> If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm
> and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an
> audio device.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: AOA
>
> Charlie England via
> matronics.com
> 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
> to kolb-list
>
>
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my
> peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually
> make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper
> places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so. :-)
>
> I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am
> sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other
> unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I
> am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be
> happy to change.
>
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England
> wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the
>> headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight
>> while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the
>> side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>>
>> On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some
>> testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will
>> eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum
>> first.
>> Larry
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
>>>
>>> Larry,
>>>
>>> A very elegant solution
>>>
>>> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>>>>
>>>
>>> I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
>>> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
>>> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
>>> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
>>> looking forward.
>>>
>>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>>> Winchester, IN
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Might not be that useful on a Kolb, but the really useful feature of AOA
indicators is supposed to be the ability to fly at max lift/drag; not
just avoid stall. The AOA lets you do that regardless of weight, since
stall speed changes significantly with weight but stall AOA does not.
Ideally, a variable light/tone should be helpful. This one has a
'ladder' type display. Wouldn't take much for a HAM radio buddy to build
you a voltage to frequency converter for audio.
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/AOA_kit.html
I hope it's still available; it's been on & off the market a couple of
times.
Charlie
On 1/15/2016 9:49 PM, B Young wrote:
>
> I'm thinking install a micro switch. Install a light on top of the
> dash. Set the light to come on 5 mph above the stall
>
> Boyd
>
> On Jan 15, 2016 6:07 PM, > wrote:
>
> Larry:
> If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on
> the arm and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall,
> hooked to an audio device.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com
> >
> *To: *"kolb-list" >
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: AOA
>
>
> Charlie England via
>
> matronics.com <http://matronics.com>
>
>
> 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
>
>
> to kolb-list
>
>
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio
> in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal
> line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on
> something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my
> peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to
> actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points
> at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most
> likely too lazy to do so. :-)
>
> I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a
> Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have
> bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I
> think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I
> can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
>
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England
> > wrote:
>
> Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of
> audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the
> pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're
> visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in
> front can go unnoticed. :-)
>
> On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I
> will do some testing and see if Firestars react
> differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the
> yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first.
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart
> >
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> Larry,
>
> A very elegant solution
>
> At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
>
>
> I tried several different things over the years. One
> worked well but
> was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side
> of the
> windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it
> was the most
> sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could
> not see it while
> looking forward.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my
> email address before sending./
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on the
inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with 4 or five
wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the ends. The arm as
it moves up and down would make contact with the different wires as it
moves, each lighting a different light moving up to the red one.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/15/2016 10:41 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on
> the inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with
> 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the
> ends. The arm as it moves up and down would make contact with the
> different wires as it moves, each lighting a different light moving up
> to the red one.
> Larry
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
Ships passing in the night....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
Ships passing in the night....
I'm betting the other one would be a lot nicer. :-)
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> On 1/15/2016 10:41 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on the
> inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with 4 or five
> wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the ends. The arm as
> it moves up and down would make contact with the different wires as it
> moves, each lighting a different light moving up to the red one.
> Larry
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
> Ships passing in the night....
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender
typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire
and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount
the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different
vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty
and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need,
the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that
went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted
the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is
in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive,
finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
My first AOA design was to use a small nuclear reactor coupled
to a scintillator...hooked to a high voltage shock device in the seat of
the plane.... but the engineering would take too long... :-)
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air
vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the
panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another
small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over
laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on
the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender
typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the
wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount
the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at
different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty
and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
> You could try something like this first:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
> Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't
need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
>
> Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that
went up and down, you could try something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
> Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted
the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
>
> Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it
is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
>
> Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive,
finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
>
>
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears
that my work is done here. :-)
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some
form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers"
can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb wrote:
>
>
> so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some
> weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the
> indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA
> battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green
> and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red
> when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
>
> On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The
>> sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead
>> of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the
>> airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes
>> up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off
>> and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
>> You could try something like this first:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
>> Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you
>> didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big
>> your vane is.
>>
>> Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead,
>> one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
>> Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you
>> repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at
>> the top.
>>
>> Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so
>> it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
>>
>> Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light
>> and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some
>> calibrating.
>>
>> --------
>> Richard Pike
>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>
>> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
actually the voltage indicator bar/leds could be made to work.. I seem
to recall the order is red , yellow and green .. Just turn it up side
down..
didn't like my first idea?? The stun gun in the seat surely would be
spot on??? :-)
On 01/16/2016 09:21 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It
> appears that my work is done here. :-)
>
> For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so
> some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us
> "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
> Larry
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb > wrote:
>
> >
>
>
> so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air
> vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on
> the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series
> with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading .
> Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply
> adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled
> onset is sensed.. Herb
>
> On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> >
>
> Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge
> assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle
> and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a
> counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the
> gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and
> down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge
> cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles
> of attack up to stall.
> You could try something like this first:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
> Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off
> everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about
> 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
>
> Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge
> instead, one that went up and down, you could try something
> like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
> Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed.
> And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you
> have yellow and red at the top.
>
> Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of
> your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on
> final:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
>
> Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane
> assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow
> location, and doing some calibrating.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
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> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and
sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world
there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 12
v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to
12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind
vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series
with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the
center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar
voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the
max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k
ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still
be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of
power.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
I am afraid that I am only " blob " qualified, after all I spent my entire
career as a Rail Road welder. Send me pictures of the finished product. :-)
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:15 AM, B Young wrote:
> Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag and
> sticking.
> Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC world
> there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 12
> v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to
> 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind
> vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series
> with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the
> center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar
> voltage indicator.
> The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by the
> max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k
> ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still
> be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of
> power.
>
> Boyd young
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Blobbers are welcome in the Kolb family.
john h
mkIII
Titus, AL
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aoa
I am afraid that I am only " blob " qualified, after all I spent my
entire career as a Rail Road welder. Send me pictures of the finished
product. :-)
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 9:15 AM, B Young
wrote:
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag
and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage.
Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary
from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel
of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put
resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot.
This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of
the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by
the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a
5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot
and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least
amount of power.
Boyd young
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
What I said! Just not as eloquently....:-)
On 01/16/2016 10:15 AM, B Young wrote:
>
> Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag
> and sticking.
> Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
> world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing
> voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the
> center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You
> could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output
> voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground
> terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot
> voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
> The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by
> the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE:
> a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the
> pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the
> least amount of power.
>
> Boyd young
>
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have four or five
in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color shining on the wind shield
to have a heads up display.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that
my work is done here. :-)
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of
lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up
with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb < Herbgh(at)nctc.com > wrote:
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather
protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being
a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust
the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply
adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed..
Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender
typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire
and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount
the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different
vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty
and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need,
the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that
went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted
the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is
in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive,
finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
===========
br> fts!)
r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before
sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
I know all this can be done electronically but I thought maybe it could be done
in such a way that any mechanic could clobber one up.
----- Original Message -----
From: mojavjoe(at)comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:51:42 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have four or five
in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color shining on the wind shield
to have a heads up display.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that
my work is done here. :-)
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of
lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up
with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb < Herbgh(at)nctc.com > wrote:
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather
protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel... the indicator being
a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust
the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply
adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed..
Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender
typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire
and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount
the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different
vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty
and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need,
the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that
went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted
the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is
in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive,
finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
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r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before
sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
The cheapest, says frugal Herb, is the 3914 led 10 segment driver...the
10 segment led with green, red and yellow leds...two or three
resistors..9 volt battery..or 12 volts if available and three wires
going to the vane and pot on the wing or strut... The schematic is here:
http://www.eleccircuit.com/the-led-display-voltmeter-in-probe-model/
and the circuit can simplified by removing and combining r2 and 3
into a 100k resistor..removing the two voltage leads...120 v and 1.2
volt range.. The pot will have the slider going to the probe...one end
to 12v and the other to gnd..
the vane needs to be set screwed to the pot such that one can trial
and error the stall point.. Then again...the 100k resistor or the 909k
(100k is ok) could be adjustable and the pot could be accessible in
flight...
2 dollar parts on ebay..circuit board can be some perf board with .1
spacing...think that is the spacing??
Herb slow day huh?? :-)
On 01/16/2016 12:07 PM, mojavjoe(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I know all this can be done electronically but I thought maybe
> it could be done in such a way that any mechanic could clobber one up.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *mojavjoe(at)comcast.net
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:51:42 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
>
> Back to my idea of a magnet and sensor. Instead of one sensor have
> four or five in an arc, hook each to a light of a different color
> shining on the wind shield to have a heads up display.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:21:00 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
>
> Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It
> appears that my work is done here. :-)
>
> For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so
> some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us
> "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
> Larry
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb > wrote:
>
> >
>
>
> so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air
> vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on
> the panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series
> with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading .
> Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply
> adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled
> onset is sensed.. Herb
>
> On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> >
>
> Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge
> assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle
> and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a
> counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the
> gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and
> down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge
> cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles
> of attack up to stall.
> You could try something like this first:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
> Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off
> everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about
> 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
>
> Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge
> instead, one that went up and down, you could try something
> like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
> Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed.
> And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you
> have yellow and red at the top.
>
> Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of
> your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on
> final:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
>
> Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane
> assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow
> location, and doing some calibrating.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
>
>
> --
> Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
>
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
>
>
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Frugal Herb again....in the case of the LRI ..I think a throw away blood
pressure gauges could work?
On 01/16/2016 11:30 AM, Mike wrote:
> From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
>
> Boyd,
> The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a
> magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the
> magnetism (without actually touching anything). It's known as the
> Hall Effect. If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts up
> about 4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
>
> Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green
> LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the
> visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10
> red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
> Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A,
> which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I
> have bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
>
> Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve
> indicator(LRI) is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to
> build. The LRI uses air pressure differential to determine when a
> wing is no longer flying. The LRI is always accurate because it
> measures the point at which the still begins, and factors such as
> weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's accuracy.
>
> I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also
> have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
>
> Mike Welch
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young > wrote:
>
>> Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of
>> drag and sticking.
>> Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
>> world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing
>> voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the
>> center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You
>> could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible output
>> voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground
>> terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of the pot
>> voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
>> The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by
>> the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator.
>> IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of
>> the pot and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will
>> consume the least amount of power.
>>
>> Boyd young
>>
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) |
No, a blood pressure gauge would not likely work. At least, I'd doubt it. T
he gauge the inventor/seller uses is the Dwyer Minihelic II, model 2-5002. 0
-2" w.c. The commercially sold unit has a new red,yellow,green silk-screene
d face. The pitot mast is a nice afternoon project. See the gauge below.
Mike Welch
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dwyer-Minihelic-II-Series-5000-Pressure-Gauge-Model-
No-2-5002-0-2-w-c-/252075719317?hash=item3ab0e23a95:g:Pp4AAOSw3ydV5KFd
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 16, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> Frugal Herb again....in the case of the LRI ..I think a throw away blood p
ressure gauges could work?
>
>> On 01/16/2016 11:30 AM, Mike wrote:
>> =46rom the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
>>
>> Boyd,
>> The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a magn
et flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the magnetism (wi
thout actually touching anything). It's known as the Hall Effect. If I'm c
orrect, I rounded all of the electronic parts up about 4 years ago to build a
few of these AOA indicators.
>>
>> Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green LEDs,
I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the visual impa
ct MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10 red/yellow/green L
EDs" using 5mm LEDs.
>> Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A, whi
ch has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I have bright
LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
>>
>> Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve indicator(LRI) i
s more useful, and much less, okay some less, to build. The LRI uses air pr
essure differential to determine when a wing is no longer flying. The LRI i
s always accurate because it measures the point at which the still begins, a
nd factors such as weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's a
ccuracy.
>>
>> I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also hav
e).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
>>
>> Mike Welch
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young wrote:
>>
>>> Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag a
nd sticking.
>>> Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC worl
d there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage. Run 1
2 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary from 0 to 1
2 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel of the wind va
in to limit the possible output voltages, or put resistors in series with t
he 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center out
let of the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicato
r.
>>> The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by th
e max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a 5 k o
hm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot and still b
e able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least amount of powe
r.
>>>
>>> Boyd young
>>>
>
> --
> Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Yep...2 inches of water(used these gauges with IBM and Storage Tech)
is equal to 3.73 mm of mercury...and blood pressure gauges start at 20
mm of hg... not sensitive enough... Herb
On 01/16/2016 01:50 PM, Mike wrote:
> No, a blood pressure gauge would not likely work. At least, I'd doubt
> it. The gauge the inventor/seller uses is the Dwyer Minihelic II,
> model 2-5002. 0-2" w.c. The commercially sold unit has a new
> red,yellow,green silk-screened face. The pitot mast is a nice
> afternoon project. See the gauge below.
>
> Mike Welch
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dwyer-Minihelic-II-Series-5000-Pressure-Gauge-Model-No-2-5002-0-2-w-c-/252075719317?hash=item3ab0e23a95:g:Pp4AAOSw3ydV5KFd
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 16, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Herb > wrote:
>
>> Frugal Herb again....in the case of the LRI ..I think a throw away
>> blood pressure gauges could work?
>>
>> On 01/16/2016 11:30 AM, Mike wrote:
>>> From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
>>>
>>> Boyd,
>>> The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a
>>> magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the
>>> magnetism (without actually touching anything). It's known as the
>>> Hall Effect. If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts
>>> up about 4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
>>>
>>> Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green
>>> LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted
>>> the visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual
>>> "10 red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
>>> Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon
>>> D10A, which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom,
>>> thus I have bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
>>>
>>> Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve
>>> indicator(LRI) is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to
>>> build. The LRI uses air pressure differential to determine when a
>>> wing is no longer flying. The LRI is always accurate because it
>>> measures the point at which the still begins, and factors such as
>>> weight, wing incidence, whatever, have no effect on it's accuracy.
>>>
>>> I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I
>>> also have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
>>>
>>> Mike Welch
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young wrote:
>>>
>>>> Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of
>>>> drag and sticking.
>>>> Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
>>>> world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing
>>>> voltage. Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the
>>>> center will vary from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You
>>>> could limit the travel of the wind vain to limit the possible
>>>> output voltages, or put resistors in series with the 12 v and or
>>>> ground terminals of the pot. This would keep the center outlet of
>>>> the pot voltages within limits of the led light bar voltage indicator.
>>>> The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part
>>>> by the max or min current requirements of the led voltage
>>>> indicator. IE: a 5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater
>>>> ohm value of the pot and still be able to drive the led volt
>>>> indicator will consume the least amount of power.
>>>>
>>>> Boyd young
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
--
Signature text; Add catchy phrase here..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with
> 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump
I haven't thought this through.. but simply to enlarge on your idea, try a
TPS. Throttle Position Sensor. They come in all shapes and sizes. Basically
a rheostat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
If you used a pot, or the TPS you could drive the light-bar and/or a sound generator.
It could be fancy or simple. You could use a 555 timer, the pot input could
change the tone frequency. It isn't a sound chip but the output pulses can
drive an earphone or amp or whatever. You can tailor the duty-cycle, the frequency
of pulses, etc. there are interactive software tools available free that
will tell you what values of caps, resistors and pots to use. And how to wire
it. Is really simple.
--------
GeoB
"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers,
so we could identify their corporate sponsors"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452044#452044
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Mike,
How well do your AOA/LRI indicator work?
I have never flown an aircraft equipped with either instrument.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: aoa
>From the depth of lurking mode, I am inspired to comment.
Boyd,
The "moving arm" doesn't touch any solder blobs. The device use a
magnet flush mounted on the torpedo, and the circuitry detects the
magnetism (without actually touching anything). It's known as the Hall
Effect. If I'm correct, I rounded all of the electronic parts up about
4 years ago to build a few of these AOA indicators.
Regarding the small IC circuit with the 10 segment red/yellow/green
LEDs, I have two of them, but on my AOA system I decided I wanted the
visual impact MUCH more noticeable, so I built my own individual "10
red/yellow/green LEDs" using 5mm LEDs.
Bigger, longer, etc, etc. (I get my AOA function from my Dynon D10A,
which has an audio alarm that I have wired into my intercom, thus I have
bright LEDs and audio notification for an impending stall.)
Although an AOA indicator is very useful, a lift reserve indicator(LRI)
is more useful, and much less, okay some less, to build. The LRI uses
air pressure differential to determine when a wing is no longer flying.
The LRI is always accurate because it measures the point at which the
still begins, and factors such as weight, wing incidence, whatever, have
no effect on it's accuracy.
I have already built one (a copy of a store bought unit, which I also
have).). I have the gages and supplies to build 3 more.
Mike Welch
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:18 AM, B Young wrote:
Moving An arm past a bunch of solder blobs sounds like a bunch of drag
and sticking.
Let the wind vain turn a pot. (Potentiometer) It seems in the RC
world there are progressive led lights that respond to changing voltage.
Run 12 v and ground to the sides of the pot. And the center will vary
from 0 to 12 volts when the pot is turned. You could limit the travel
of the wind vain to limit the possible output voltages, or put
resistors in series with the 12 v and or ground terminals of the pot.
This would keep the center outlet of the pot voltages within limits of
the led light bar voltage indicator.
The total resistance value of the pot would be determined in part by
the max or min current requirements of the led voltage indicator. IE: a
5 k ohm or a 10, 15, 50 k ohm pot. The greater ohm value of the pot
and still be able to drive the led volt indicator will consume the least
amount of power.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
I could imagine a group of Reed switches laid side to side with a 50
percent offset. One set on either side of the magnet. Pending on the
physical sizes of the switches would determine the accuracy / resolution of
the devise. .. A pots accuracy may depend on the size of the wire , and
the tolerance in the led light bar. A 10 segment led bar set at 1 volt per
segment, or a 10 segment bar at a quarter volt per segment. Big
difference.
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
When I finally saved up enough to replace my POS Dell laptop I bought an
Acer with Windows 10 already installed and was delighted to find that Movie
Maker is back. I've made camera mounts for my trike and for Christmas I
went looking through Amazon for the latest offerings in action cams. It's
amazing what's out there but, as always, money is tight when it comes to
toys. I found some good reviews for a GoPro clone marketed by Peyou US Ltd.
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X5LM4NW?keywords=sj4000%20camera&qi
d=1453065702&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1
I'm having an issue that I can't decide is a camera or a mount issue. I've
put two short clips on You Tube so the engineer I'm working with can see
what is very hard to describe. In the first:
https://youtu.be/wQQQHRxujO8
you can see the problem. If I decide to make a video called "Kanandreas,
Richter 11.0" I've got the special effects nailed.
But when I throttle back for landing everything smooths out:
https://youtu.be/t2z0roXMUBI
So, there's certainly fuel for hope that it can be ironed out. On my end
I'm going to isolate the camera on a block of Sorbothane and add a lead
weight as an inertial damper.
The best part is that these little action cams are $54 on Amazon. Add two
32 gigabyte micro SD cards and the tab comes to a little over $80.
Disclaimer, I neither own stock nor am I in any way connected to Peyou US
Ltd. I just bought a couple of their cameras.
I know everyone enjoys Larry C's videos so I thought I'd pass along what
I've found in my latest delve into videos.
Rick Girard
PS I tried them out for stills, too. It has a bit of a fisheye look (the
camera is claimed to have a 170 degree field of view) but it's better than
most phones can do.
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making videos |
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
you can see the problem. If I decide to make a video called "Kanandreas,
Richter 11.0" I've got the special effects nailed.
But when I throttle back for landing everything smooths out:
======
For me padding did not solve the harmonics problem. The best that I found
was off the nose pod as solid as I could make it. You still get a bit
during throttle down, but better every where else. I also found that mine
settled down at different speeds, best was the high end of the throttle
range. Your best bet is to find the spot on the plane where the vibration
is the least.
Good luck
Larry
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Richard Girard wrote
:
> When I finally saved up enough to replace my POS Dell laptop I bought an
> Acer with Windows 10 already installed and was delighted to find that Mov
ie
> Maker is back. I've made camera mounts for my trike and for Christmas I
> went looking through Amazon for the latest offerings in action cams. It's
> amazing what's out there but, as always, money is tight when it comes to
> toys. I found some good reviews for a GoPro clone marketed by Peyou US Lt
d.
>
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X5LM4NW?keywords=sj4000%20camera&
qid=1453065702&ref_=sr_ph&sr=1
>
> I'm having an issue that I can't decide is a camera or a mount issue. I'v
e
> put two short clips on You Tube so the engineer I'm working with can see
> what is very hard to describe. In the first:
>
> https://youtu.be/wQQQHRxujO8
>
> you can see the problem. If I decide to make a video called "Kanandreas,
> Richter 11.0" I've got the special effects nailed.
> But when I throttle back for landing everything smooths out:
>
> https://youtu.be/t2z0roXMUBI
>
> So, there's certainly fuel for hope that it can be ironed out. On my end
> I'm going to isolate the camera on a block of Sorbothane and add a lead
> weight as an inertial damper.
> The best part is that these little action cams are $54 on Amazon. Add two
> 32 gigabyte micro SD cards and the tab comes to a little over $80.
> Disclaimer, I neither own stock nor am I in any way connected to Peyou US
> Ltd. I just bought a couple of their cameras.
> I know everyone enjoys Larry C's videos so I thought I'd pass along what
> I've found in my latest delve into videos.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> PS I tried them out for stills, too. It has a bit of a fisheye look (the
> camera is claimed to have a 170 degree field of view) but it's better tha
n
> most phones can do.
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
Our bitter weather has moved Eastward, so I got the tires fixed today. I
put some washers under these screws just as a precaution in case the screw
might be a bit long. I have 6 lbs of air in them. I anticipate that they
will be a bit better when landing in our outback, as well as not ripping
off the valve stems.
Larry
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
That looks good. I don't think you have a slippage problem now, unless
you try really hard.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 1:49 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: tires
Our bitter weather has moved Eastward, so I got the tires fixed today. I
put some washers under these screws just as a precaution in case the
screw might be a bit long. I have 6 lbs of air in them. I anticipate
that they will be a bit better when landing in our outback, as well as
not ripping off the valve stems.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
How much air do you think I should have. I now have 6 pounds in them and
they don't appear to be too low. Perhaps I should put my fat ass in there
to see how much they squat?
Larry
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> That looks good. I don't think you have a slippage problem now, unless
> you try really hard.
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 1:49 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: tires
>
>
> Our bitter weather has moved Eastward, so I got the tires fixed today. I
> put some washers under these screws just as a precaution in case the screw
> might be a bit long. I have 6 lbs of air in them. I anticipate that they
> will be a bit better when landing in our outback, as well as not ripping
> off the valve stems.
>
> Larry
>
>
> --
>
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Larry, When I put the Nerf tires on the Mk III I ran 6 to 8 lb. Seems like
you're in the ballpark.
Rick
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Larry Cottrell
wrote:
> How much air do you think I should have. I now have 6 pounds in them and
> they don't appear to be too low. Perhaps I should put my fat ass in there
> to see how much they squat?
> Larry
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>> That looks good. I don't think you have a slippage problem now, unless
>> you try really hard.
>>
>>
>>
>> john h
>>
>> mkIII
>>
>> Titus, Alabama
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 1:49 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: tires
>>
>>
>>
>> Our bitter weather has moved Eastward, so I got the tires fixed today. I
>> put some washers under these screws just as a precaution in case the scr
ew
>> might be a bit long. I have 6 lbs of air in them. I anticipate that they
>> will be a bit better when landing in our outback, as well as not ripping
>> off the valve stems.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
>> address before sending.*
>>
>
>
> --
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
I run 6-8 psi when I am doing "real" flying. 10-15 psi when I will be
flying in and out of paved strips. Higher psi works much better on dry
pavement for me.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: tires
How much air do you think I should have. I now have 6 pounds in them and
they don't appear to be too low. Perhaps I should put my fat ass in
there to see how much they squat?
Larry
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:47 PM, John Hauck
wrote:
That looks good. I don't think you have a slippage problem now, unless
you try really hard.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 1:49 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: tires
Our bitter weather has moved Eastward, so I got the tires fixed today. I
put some washers under these screws just as a precaution in case the
screw might be a bit long. I have 6 lbs of air in them. I anticipate
that they will be a bit better when landing in our outback, as well as
not ripping off the valve stems.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLheureux(at)aol.com |
I read somewhere that airplane tires should compress so that the edge of
the tread touches the ground when loaded. This relates to airplane tires
that have the distinctive simple circumferential treads.
Hope this helps
Pierre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Repairing the wiring harness from the mags turned out to be really easy, ought
to have the engine back on the airplane fairly soon, so I bit the bullet and ordered
the three items linked here on ebay. If/when I come up with something worth
looking at, I'll post it on the list. If it turns out to be useless, or a
waste of time, I'll post that too.
Richard Pike wrote:
> Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender
typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the
wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount
the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at
different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty
and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
> You could try something like this first:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
> Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't
need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
>
> Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that
went up and down, you could try something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
> Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted
the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
>
> Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it
is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
>
> Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive,
finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452113#452113
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> |
When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the airspeed.
An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless it has an audio
warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio warning I don't
see the point.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452131#452131
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>
> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the airspeed.
An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless it has an
audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio warning I don't
see the point.
>
This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their (relatively)
narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, you'd ignore
airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can change quite a
bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not. Same applies to
optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in the
cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy &
Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap off
of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose link I
posted.. Herb
On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>
>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the
>> airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on;
>> unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable.
>> Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>>
> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can
> change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not.
> Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>
> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
>
> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy
> & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>
> Charlie
>
>
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/20/2016 11:07 AM, Herb wrote:
>
> There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap off
> of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose link I
> posted.. Herb
>
> On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>>
>> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>>
>>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on
>>> the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye
>>> on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very
>>> valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>>>
>> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
>> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
>> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed
>> can change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does
>> not. Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>>
>> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
>> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
>>
>> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy
>> & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Herb,
That could work (as long as you don't expect the LED current to drive a
buzzer), but you'd basically have just a stall warning horn. Might as
well just have a tabbed switch, like a Cessna.
With a proper voltage controlled oscillator, you can have a varying
pitch tone (even configured to beep at different speeds and intensity)
so that with practice, you can actually *hear* best angle, best climb,
approach, impending stall, etc, all tied to AOA meaning it would work at
any loading of the plane.
Those who are really interested might want to spend some time with
Google & read up on what AOA can do, and how it works.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
The current driving the led would not , by itself, operate the
buzzer....would require a Transistor..resistor or two..Herb
On 01/20/2016 11:34 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>
> On 1/20/2016 11:07 AM, Herb wrote:
>>
>> There are 5/12 volt buzzers out there.. EBAY....and one could tap
>> off of the the output to the first red led in the schematic , whose
>> link I posted.. Herb
>>
>> On 01/20/2016 10:50 AM, Charlie England wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on
>>>> the airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an
>>>> eye on; unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very
>>>> valuable. Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
>>>>
>>> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
>>> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
>>> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed
>>> can change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does
>>> not. Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>>>
>>> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
>>> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier;
>>> Navy & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> Herb,
>
> That could work (as long as you don't expect the LED current to drive
> a buzzer), but you'd basically have just a stall warning horn. Might
> as well just have a tabbed switch, like a Cessna.
>
> With a proper voltage controlled oscillator, you can have a varying
> pitch tone (even configured to beep at different speeds and intensity)
> so that with practice, you can actually *hear* best angle, best climb,
> approach, impending stall, etc, all tied to AOA meaning it would work
> at any loading of the plane.
>
> Those who are really interested might want to spend some time with
> Google & read up on what AOA can do, and how it works.
>
> Charlie
>
>
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
How would one compute the speed range of my mkIII and a Cessna 172? and
compare the results?
Never flown with an AOA. I think it would be interesting to play with to
learn what it does and how it would improve me and my MKIII's flying.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>
> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the
airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless
it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio
warning I don't see the point.
>
This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their (relatively)
narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, you'd ignore airspeed &
monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can change quite a bit with gross
weight, but angle of attack does not. Same applies to optimum best angle and
best rate in climb.
With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in the
cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy &
Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: America's new toy!! |
All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration and
stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
.nz
Subject: Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
OMG!!! what ever next!
want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
Throw and Shoot Camera.
20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
$495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
great shots.
This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
reserved for professional filmmakers.
Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
stunning HD pictures and videos.
Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: America's new toy!! |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a quarter
, that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 axis
Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device that
would be in this gilded Lilly...
Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat
down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally
small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of
story...:-) Herb
On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration
> and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
> .nz
> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
>
>
> OMG!!! what ever next!
>
> want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
> Throw and Shoot Camera.
> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
> great shots.
> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
> reserved for professional filmmakers.
> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
> stunning HD pictures and videos.
> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: America's new toy!! |
yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this
thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow you
into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the cockpit
Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA would have
conniptions.
Pat
From: Herb
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!!
I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a quarter
, that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3 axis
Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device that
would be in this gilded Lilly...
Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat
down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally
small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of
story...:-) Herb
On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration
and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
.nz
Subject: Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
OMG!!! what ever next!
want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
Throw and Shoot Camera.
20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
$495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
great shots.
This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
reserved for professional filmmakers.
Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
stunning HD pictures and videos.
Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out=94
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out=94
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out=94
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me=94and there was no one left to speak for
me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: America's new toy!! |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto
pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is.... since I
doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72, guess it is
on the back burner!! Herb
On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
> yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this
> thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow you
> into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the cockpit
> Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA would have
> conniptions.
> Pat
> *From:* Herb
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!!
> I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a
> quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3
> axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device
> that would be in this gilded Lilly...
>
> Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I sat
> down to learn the C language so I could program some of the equally
> small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of
> story...:-) Herb
>
> On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration
>> and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
>> .nz
>> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
>>
>>
>> OMG!!! what ever next!
>>
>> want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
>> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
>> Throw and Shoot Camera.
>> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
>> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
>> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
>> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
>> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
>> great shots.
>> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
>> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
>> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
>> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
>> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
>> reserved for professional filmmakers.
>> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
>> stunning HD pictures and videos.
>> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
>
> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Socialist.
>
> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
>
> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Jew.
>
> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
>
>
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I've got maybe 5 hrs in a 172, & none in a Kolb, so maybe you can help.
My RV-4 stalls in the low 50's (mph) and best rate of climb is actually
a rather wide range instead of a single number; from around 110 mph up
to around 130 mph, due to the fixed pitch prop & the low aspect ratio
'hershey bar' wing. (Drag goes up rather quickly as the plane slows down
due to induced drag, & the highly pitched cruise prop loses efficiency
at lower airspeeds and limits engine power at lower rpm so best rate is
almost the same from 110 to 130.) Best angle of climb is around 85 mph.
Point is, the actual mph spread between best rate & stall is around 55
mph. The spread between best angle and stall is around 30 mph.
What are the spreads for your Kolb? If the actual mph spreads are closer
(percentages might be the same, or even better; I don't know), then an
accurate AOA might be *more* useful in a Kolb than something like an RV,
with large speed spreads.
Charlie
On 1/20/2016 3:48 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> How would one compute the speed range of my mkIII and a Cessna 172? and
> compare the results?
>
> Never flown with an AOA. I think it would be interesting to play with to
> learn what it does and how it would improve me and my MKIII's flying.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:51 AM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
>
>
> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>>
>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the
> airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on; unless
> it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable. Without an audio
> warning I don't see the point.
> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their (relatively)
> narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world, you'd ignore airspeed &
> monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can change quite a bit with gross
> weight, but angle of attack does not. Same applies to optimum best angle and
> best rate in climb.
>
> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in the
> cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
>
> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy &
> Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>
> Charlie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: America's new toy!! |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Here you go, Herb. All you have to do is stay awake long enough to
install it.
http://www.trutrakap.com/product/eco/
On 1/21/2016 10:00 AM, Herb wrote:
> My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto
> pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is.... since
> I doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72, guess it
> is on the back burner!! Herb
>
> On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>> yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this
>> thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow
>> you into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the
>> cockpit Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA
>> would have conniptions.
>> Pat
>> *From:* Herb
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!!
>> I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a
>> quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3
>> axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the device
>> that would be in this gilded Lilly...
>>
>> Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I
>> sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the
>> equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end of
>> story...:-) Herb
>>
>> On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>>> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights, vibration
>>> and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
>>> .nz
>>> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
>>>
>>>
>>> OMG!!! what ever next!
>>>
>>> want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
>>> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
>>> Throw and Shoot Camera.
>>> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
>>> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
>>> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
>>> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
>>> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
>>> great shots.
>>> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
>>> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
>>> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
>>> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
>>> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
>>> reserved for professional filmmakers.
>>> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
>>> stunning HD pictures and videos.
>>> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
>>
>> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Socialist.
>>
>> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
>>
>> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Jew.
>>
>> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
>>
>>
>
> --
> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
>
> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Socialist.
>
> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
>
> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
> Because I was not a Jew.
>
> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: America's new toy!! |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
That sort of fits in with my thesis..which is...."amazing what can be
done with 50 bucks worth of electronics...and a smidge of
programming....". :-) Its all in the software... which I avoided like
the plague when in the Computer business...in the 60's thru 80's.. $999
!! Herb
ps They or someone else has a demo on You tube..
On 01/21/2016 10:47 AM, Charlie England wrote:
> Here you go, Herb. All you have to do is stay awake long enough to
> install it.
> http://www.trutrakap.com/product/eco/
>
>
> On 1/21/2016 10:00 AM, Herb wrote:
>> My idea, since I have never really grown up :-) , was to try an auto
>> pilot trim system on my Firefly....on very calm days that is....
>> since I doze off each time I try to learn something new at age 72,
>> guess it is on the back burner!! Herb
>>
>> On 01/21/2016 09:13 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>>> yeah, i could see that might slow you down. Just imagine having this
>>> thing fly a circuit round filming you while you are flying, follow
>>> you into a .tight landing spot. Maybe even fly back to you in the
>>> cockpit Like calling a hawk back to your wrist. Wow! Bet the FAA
>>> would have conniptions.
>>> Pat
>>> *From:* Herb
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 2:21 PM
>>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Fw: America's new toy!!
>>> I bought one of the 9 dof circuit boards...about the size of a
>>> quarter , that contains the 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer and 3
>>> axis Accelerometer as well as a barometer .... Similar to the
>>> device that would be in this gilded Lilly...
>>>
>>> Thinking that I would have some fun with the 7 dollar device.... I
>>> sat down to learn the C language so I could program some of the
>>> equally small processor boards that I bought... dozed off ,,,end
>>> of story...:-) Herb
>>>
>>> On 01/21/2016 05:02 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>>>> All you pilots worrying about taking pics of your flights,
>>>> vibration and stuff. Get a load of this. Pat
>>>> .nz
>>>> *Subject:* Fw: Fwd: FW: America's new toy!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OMG!!! what ever next!
>>>>
>>>> want for Xmas is Lily!!!!
>>>> America 's new toy. A much more advanced Drone!!!
>>>> Throw and Shoot Camera.
>>>> 20 minutes of overhead tracking photography.
>>>> Just throw it into the air. They are selling at
>>>> $495 to $699. Amazing what there is on the horizon.
>>>> Golfers, you can just throw this camera into the air
>>>> before you tee-off, and it will record ALL of your
>>>> great shots.
>>>> This technology is bordering on science fiction. It
>>>> will revolutionize the movie and TV industry and
>>>> with this equipment, home videos will be more fun to watch.
>>>> Lily is the world's first throw-and-shoot camera. It
>>>> lets anyone create cinematic footage previously
>>>> reserved for professional filmmakers.
>>>> Lily is waterproof, ultra-portable, and shoots
>>>> stunning HD pictures and videos.
>>>> Click: https://www.youtube.com/embed/4vGcH0Bk3hg?rel=0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
>>>
>>> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
>>> Because I was not a Socialist.
>>>
>>> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
>>> Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
>>>
>>> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
>>> Because I was not a Jew.
>>>
>>> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
>>
>> "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Socialist.
>>
>> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
>>
>> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
>> Because I was not a Jew.
>>
>> Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
>>
>>
>
--
Signature text; Im reminded of the Words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Stall on my MKIII is 30 mph (power off in ground effect), about 33 (out of
ground effect) best angle 50 mph, best rate 60 with a spread of 17/37 mph.
Pretty close.
On a good day it will climb at or a tad below stall speed. This is a unique
capability of all models of Kolb aircraft. Full throttle, stick back to the
stop, they will continue to climb, prop going in and out of cavitation,
aircraft doing a shallow porpoise maneuver, nose feels like it is straight
up. Must sound strange to those on the ground.
Kolbs are different animals.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Cold, wet, gray at hauck's holler, but not nearly as bad as
my friends further north.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
I've got maybe 5 hrs in a 172, & none in a Kolb, so maybe you can help.
My RV-4 stalls in the low 50's (mph) and best rate of climb is actually a
rather wide range instead of a single number; from around 110 mph up to
around 130 mph, due to the fixed pitch prop & the low aspect ratio 'hershey
bar' wing. (Drag goes up rather quickly as the plane slows down due to
induced drag, & the highly pitched cruise prop loses efficiency at lower
airspeeds and limits engine power at lower rpm so best rate is almost the
same from 110 to 130.) Best angle of climb is around 85 mph.
Point is, the actual mph spread between best rate & stall is around 55 mph.
The spread between best angle and stall is around 30 mph.
What are the spreads for your Kolb? If the actual mph spreads are closer
(percentages might be the same, or even better; I don't know), then an
accurate AOA might be *more* useful in a Kolb than something like an RV,
with large speed spreads.
Charlie
On 1/20/2016 3:48 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> How would one compute the speed range of my mkIII and a Cessna 172?
> and compare the results?
>
> Never flown with an AOA. I think it would be interesting to play with
> to learn what it does and how it would improve me and my MKIII's flying.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
> England
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:51 AM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: AOA
>
> -->
>
> On 1/20/2016 9:48 AM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
>> -->
>>
>> When climbing, in the pattern or on final I always keep an eye on the
> airspeed. An AOA gage would just be another item to keep an eye on;
> unless it has an audio warning. Then it would be very valuable.
> Without an audio warning I don't see the point.
> This might not be totally applicable to Kolbs due to their
> (relatively) narrow speed range, but in the wider aviation world,
> you'd ignore airspeed & monitor AOA. Reason is that 1G stall speed can
> change quite a bit with gross weight, but angle of attack does not.
> Same applies to optimum best angle and best rate in climb.
>
> With the right kind of audio feedback, you wouldn't need to look in
> the cockpit at all. You could devote all your attention to traffic, etc.
>
> The toughest approach for landing is likely an aircraft carrier; Navy
> & Marine a/c use AOA for approaches.
>
> Charlie
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> |
| Subject: | A question of Battery type |
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering
where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | A question of Battery type |
Nick C:
I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works well for
me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep mine charged with
a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer capability.
http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html
Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium batteries
until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into flames while I am
90 miles from nowhere. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering
where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
That is a good question. Wish I knew the answer. Lithium has
overcharging or uneven charging issues, Good side, it is very
light....while lead acid is heavier, no charging issues. I use the
recombinant gas technology. It is more like lead acid but can't spill. I
have taken apart a ups(uninterruptible power supply) found a crack from
the top right corner across every cell to the lower left corner, zero
leakage or damage to the ups. My last one lasted 9 years, it was still
starting the plane, but I could tell it was turning a bit slower. Mine
is a 17 amp hour out of a harbor frt jump start. Buying the jump start
was cheaper than buying the battery from Arizona battery. The one that
lasted 9 years was a replacement battery for my jump start... But I don't
think you can get it as a replacement part ant longer. It was only 15
dollars but took 3 months to get here.
Good luck
My answer is worth what you paid,, and I am sure someone else will have
another opinion.
Boyd Young
On Jan 21, 2016 5:40 PM, "Nick Cassara" wrote:
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra
.so, I am
> wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint.
Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40
battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is
*really* critical.
Charlie
On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Nick C:
>
> I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works well for
me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep mine charged with
a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer capability.
>
> http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html
>
> Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium batteries
until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into flames while I am
90 miles from nowhere. ;-)
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.so, I am wondering
where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Nick, It bothers me that the Li sellers like to talk about Pb equivalence
rather than capacity. I've belonged to the AeroElectric Connection here on
the Matronics Forums and so far no one has been able to say that they've
tested an Li battery for capacity and had it equal an AGM lead acid
battery. On average when the Li battery is subjected to a constant
discharge, like when you lose an alternator, it has about 1/4 the capacity
to keep things running.
I don't recall what engine you're going to run on the Kolbra but if it's
electrically dependant, ie doesn't have mags or dedicated ignition coils
this lack of capacity is critical to safety of flight.
And as for the weight, if it's that critical there are other ways to lose
10 lb. :-}
Rick Girard
PS when it comes to lead acid AGM, SLA, RG (in order Advanced Glass Mat,
Starved Lead Acid, Recombinant Gas) are all names for the same kind of
battery construction. Right now they are the pinnacle of lead acid
batteries but as John notes you don't need to spend $100+ on a brand like
Oddysey. I use the cheapest I can find, usually the type used for
Uninterruptable power supplies. The $37 battery I put in my trike 8 years
ago is still running strong. If you want to be safe, figure on a 2 year
life, change it out and use the old battery for a motorcycle, snowmobile,
emergency radio power supply, etc. That's only $20 a year to ensure you
always have a top notch battery in your airplane.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
>
> I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint.
>
> Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40
> battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is *really
*
> critical.
>
> Charlie
>
> On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>>
>> Nick C:
>>
>> I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works
>> well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep min
e
>> charged with a small solar charger that has a conditioner/maintainer
>> capability.
>>
>> http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html
>>
>> Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium
>> batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into fla
mes
>> while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-)
>>
>> john h
>> mkIII
>> Titus, Alabama
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara
>> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM
>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>>
>>
>> Kolbers,
>>
>> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra
.so, I
>> am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
>> Thank you as always for your insights!
>>
>> Nick Cassara
>> Palmer, AK
>> PAAQ
>>
>>
>>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category
_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on
it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. The
problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara wrote:
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra
.so, I am
> wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | A question of Battery type |
Spend 99.00. Replace the battery in 8 years. 12.00 and change a year.
The url I posted is also offers free shipping. That is a 16 amp bat.
Works well on a 912uls.
On the other hand, I have the same capacity AGM battery powering the 5.5
kw Onan Generator in the back of my truck. Think it may be a Power
Sonic, or some no-name brand Absorbed Glass Mat battery. It was
cheaper, bought it locally, lives unprotected from the elements, 24/7.
Cannot remember how many years I have been using that one.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
Nick, It bothers me that the Li sellers like to talk about Pb
equivalence rather than capacity. I've belonged to the AeroElectric
Connection here on the Matronics Forums and so far no one has been able
to say that they've tested an Li battery for capacity and had it equal
an AGM lead acid battery. On average when the Li battery is subjected to
a constant discharge, like when you lose an alternator, it has about 1/4
the capacity to keep things running.
I don't recall what engine you're going to run on the Kolbra but if it's
electrically dependant, ie doesn't have mags or dedicated ignition coils
this lack of capacity is critical to safety of flight.
And as for the weight, if it's that critical there are other ways to
lose 10 lb. :-}
Rick Girard
PS when it comes to lead acid AGM, SLA, RG (in order Advanced Glass Mat,
Starved Lead Acid, Recombinant Gas) are all names for the same kind of
battery construction. Right now they are the pinnacle of lead acid
batteries but as John notes you don't need to spend $100+ on a brand
like Oddysey. I use the cheapest I can find, usually the type used for
Uninterruptable power supplies. The $37 battery I put in my trike 8
years ago is still running strong. If you want to be safe, figure on a 2
year life, change it out and use the old battery for a motorcycle,
snowmobile, emergency radio power supply, etc. That's only $20 a year to
ensure you always have a top notch battery in your airplane.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
I'm still a little leery, too, from a safety standpoint.
Even without the safety concerns, it's really hard to go from a ~$40
battery to a ~$200 battery to save maybe 10 lbs, unless weight is
*really* critical.
Charlie
On 1/21/2016 6:49 PM, John Hauck wrote:
Nick C:
I use, and have used for many years, an AGM lead acid battery. Works
well for me. Is very reliable and serviceable for many years. Keep
mine charged with a small solar charger that has a
conditioner/maintainer capability.
http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html
Guess I am a tad old fashioned. I'll let others test fly the lithium
batteries until they are refined enough I know they won't burst into
flames while I am 90 miles from nowhere. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Cassara
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my
Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between
Lead acid and Lithium.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
br> fts!)
r> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | A question of Battery type |
Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's
holler. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage
<http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&categ
ory_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&>
&product_id=58&category_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep
on it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so
far. The problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes
care of that.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara
wrote:
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my
Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between
Lead acid and Lithium.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> |
I use an Odyssey PC625 for my 912S. Have had it for about 5 years. Last year
after setting for 5 months during winter it would not turn the engine fast enough
to start. Charged it up and now keep it on a battery maintainer. So far
so good. It weighs 13.2 lbs. and I moved it to the front to help my weight and
balance.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452194#452194
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | nationcap(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, it=99s the sa
me one, that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it is the large
r size. So far so good.
Brad
YellowBird1
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's hol
ler. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category
_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on it
when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. The pr
oblem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara < nickc(at)mtaonline.net > wrote
:
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.s
o, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithiu
m.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
===========
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> www.builder
sbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank"> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres
s before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a powerful
storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and able to ride it
out. I know it's a little early to think about it but there could be some
great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good luck all.
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
I replaced my lead acid battery with a Areovoltz 8 cell lithium FE battery
about 18 months ago. I had been using a cheep 12 AH lawn mower battery that
weighed app 13 lbs. The lead acid battery was marginal at best. On a cold
morning or after few starts without any charging it would fail to power my
ignition system. Maybe I should have used a bigger battery but I don't like
weight.
The new Areovolts battery is a 15 AH equivalent and weighs 1.8 lbs. Last
spring when I got back from 6 months in Florida I tried to run the battery
down with six 5-8 second cranks with the ignition off and with a cool down
between each crank. I gave up not wanting to wear out my starter. I then
started the engine perfectly. I then hooked up a balance charger and found
the cells were within .02 volts of each other. The balance charger couldn't
improve on the already good balance.
I hear discussions about the AH equivalent rating but from what I have
experienced my old lead acid battery would drop below the necessary voltage
for my electronic ignition well before the lithium battery would quit. I
also have a alternator that bolts to the flywheel and accessory case so
there are no moving parts other than the engine. If you have to have more
reserve power get a larger lithium and you will still save considerable
weight.
The lithium FE batteries don't catch on fire like the older lithium
batteries did. My lithium FE battery doesn't need to be kept on a battery
maintainer like the old lead acid batteries did. After sitting idle in the
hanger all winter there is no measurable loss of power.
I will continue to report on my ongoing test.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 PM, wrote:
> Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, it=99s the
same one,
> that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it is the larger size
.
> So far so good.
>
> Brad
> YellowBird1
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
> *Subject: *RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's
> holler. ;-)
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&catego
ry_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
>
>
> This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on
> it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. Th
e
> problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that
.
>
> Larry
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara wrote
:
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra
.so, I am
> wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ==========
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> ==========
>
>
> --
>
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx>> Great. New one to me. We have the
remains of your snowstorm due here as rain. UK is hardly afloat as it
is. All field are saturated and are overflowing onto the roads, rivers
are full. Some poor blighters have been flooded three times since the
New Year already Fingers crossed. Pat
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
luck all.
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Groucho also said " I do not want to be a member of any group that would
have me as a member". :-) Herb who is not leaving!!
On 01/26/2016 09:36 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>>>
> Great. New one to me. We have the remains of your snowstorm due
> here as rain. UK is hardly afloat as it is. All field are saturated
> and are overflowing onto the roads, rivers are full. Some poor
> blighters have been flooded three times since the New Year already
> Fingers crossed. Pat
>
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
> Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
> powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
> able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
> there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
> luck all.
> Rick Girard
> --
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
Signature text;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
Pat
If a clever chap iike you can find a way to ship all that water to
Calif, you=99ll be a hero for life!
Here in Maine we dint get any of the recent storm; but I feel for the
poor folk down south. They dont have warm clothes, and most towns have
never even heard of snowplow. Tough duty.
Lily sounds like great fun if you have a spare $500 to spend. I=99ll
skip for now. Next year they=99ll be $300, eventually $29.95
fresh from Hijng Kong. And the newer model will start at $500.
But I did just buy a tiny video camera to play with. When I think of the
clumsy stuff we mounted on telephone poles & put into mailboxes - wow,
wish we=99d had tiny things like this.
What clever beasties we humans are!! =94 I only hope don=99t
drown in our own (glowing) garbage.
Plan to sell my Xtra. It just doesn=99t do what I=99d hoped
it would, photographically speaking. Will likely get a Cessna 140 or
some such. Don=99t really need 4 seats, and I do know Cessnas a
little. Put 2700 hrs on my 170; 6 coast-coast flights, banner towing,
whale surveys, swordfish spotting, even Sasquatch research! =94
lots of photography. It do add up. That plane is now in Fairbanks AK;
she=99s a good bush plane for up there. The 140 should work for me
and tho they=99re all 60+ yrs old, they built them right. No
worries there..
Depressing to think we have 10 more months of the political Yakking.
Trump sounds good to me; we need someone who=99s not afraid of
saying NO to some people.
Hope all=99s well with you guys, and all the best in 2016. And
onwards!
Russ
> On Jan 26, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Patrick Ladd
wrote:
>
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>>> Great. New
one to me. We have the remains of your snowstorm due here as rain. UK
is hardly afloat as it is. All field are saturated and are overflowing
onto the roads, rivers are full. Some poor blighters have been flooded
three times since the New Year already Fingers crossed. Pat
> From: Richard Girard <mailto:aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
>
> Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
luck all.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
And yet, there it is.....
On 1/26/2016 5:08 PM, kinne russ wrote:
> Depressing to think we have 10 more months of the political Yakking.
> Trump sounds good to me; we need someone whos not afraid of saying NO
> to some people.
>
> Russ
>
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Patrick Ladd > > wrote:
>>
>
>
>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
>> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>>>
>> Great. New one to me. We have the remains of your snowstorm due
>> here as rain. UK is hardly afloat as it is. All field are saturated
>> and are overflowing onto the roads, rivers are full. Some poor
>> blighters have been flooded three times since the New Year already
>> Fingers crossed. Pat
>>
>> *From:* Richard Girard
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
>> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
>> Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
>> powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
>> able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
>> there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
>> luck all.
>> Rick Girard
>> --
>>
>>
>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
>> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com> |
Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered
about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing
edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone
think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit
?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
It's your experiment, but either fabric or tape gap seals are less
expensive than all that hinge (which is NOT intended to attach control
surfaces by the way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear wing
spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two cents.
Rick Girard
Before someone starts in, look up the specs for MS20257 rolled hinge and
MS20001 Extruded (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Flylawnchairs
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have
> wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the
> trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to
> outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape
> supplied in the kit ?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
List, I apologise. Meant that email to go to Pat alone.
But WTH, praps the List agrees with me.
Russ
> On Jan 26, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Charlie England > wrote:
>
> And yet, there it is.....
>
> On 1/26/2016 5:08 PM, kinne russ wrote:
>> Depressing to think we have 10 more months of the political Yakking.
Trump sounds good to me; we need someone who=99s not afraid of
saying NO to some people.
>>
>> Russ
>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Patrick Ladd > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>>> Great. New
one to me. We have the remains of your snowstorm due here as rain. UK
is hardly afloat as it is. All field are saturated and are overflowing
onto the roads, rivers are full. Some poor blighters have been flooded
three times since the New Year already Fingers crossed. Pat
>>> From: Richard Girard <mailto:aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
>>> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
>>> Subject: Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
>>>
>>> Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
luck all.
>>>
>>> Rick Girard
>>>
>>> --
>>> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Doesn't take much hinge to hang an aileron and flap.
Piano hinges may not have been designed for control surface hinges, but
they have served us, in the Kolb world, well.
The trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the flap and
aileron flex quite a bit in flight. Never tried to see if I could
actually see them flex in flight, but it can be done on the ground.
Full span hinges will begin binding as soon as they begin getting out of
column. Would it be a problem? I don't know. Is there enough flex in
the wing and control surfaces to bind up a full span hinge? I don't
know that either.
Best go by the plans on size and number of hinges, in my humble opinion.
I have Polyester Dacron fabric seals that were installed on my MKIII in
1992. They are still serviceable after 24 years and 3,300+ hours.
Takes a little longer and is a little more difficult to go this route,
but the end result produces the best gap seal.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Gap seals
It's your experiment, but either fabric or tape gap seals are less
expensive than all that hinge (which is NOT intended to attach control
surfaces by the way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear wing
spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two cents.
Rick Girard
Before someone starts in, look up the specs for MS20257 rolled hinge and
MS20001 Extruded (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Flylawnchairs
wrote:
Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and
have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon
to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from
inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for
the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> Groucho Marx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Rick mentions a question worth asking about extra holes in the spar.
Having said that, the 2 seat RV's use full length piano hinge for the
flaps. IIRC, some of the Zenith products use them for aileron hinges.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 1/26/2016 7:04 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Doesn't take much hinge to hang an aileron and flap.
>
> Piano hinges may not have been designed for control surface hinges,
> but they have served us, in the Kolb world, well.
>
> The trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the flap and
> aileron flex quite a bit in flight. Never tried to see if I could
> actually see them flex in flight, but it can be done on the ground.
>
> Full span hinges will begin binding as soon as they begin getting out
> of column. Would it be a problem? I don't know. Is there enough
> flex in the wing and control surfaces to bind up a full span hinge? I
> don't know that either.
>
> Best go by the plans on size and number of hinges, in my humble opinion.
>
> I have Polyester Dacron fabric seals that were installed on my MKIII
> in 1992. They are still serviceable after 24 years and 3,300+ hours.
> Takes a little longer and is a little more difficult to go this route,
> but the end result produces the best gap seal.
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard
> Girard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:17 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Gap seals
>
> It's your experiment, but either fabric or tape gap seals are less
> expensive than all that hinge (which is NOT intended to attach control
> surfaces by the way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear
> wing spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two cents.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> Before someone starts in, look up the specs for MS20257 rolled hinge
> and MS20001 Extruded (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Flylawnchairs
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and
> have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the
> flaperon to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance
> from inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the
> need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
I think that if I were to use full length hinges, I would install them in
such a way that they never go straight even at full deflection of the
control surfaces. that way they can't lock up on you.
Boyd Young
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
I don't. I won't go into politics because this isn't the place for it. I
may express my Kolb opinions, or in the case of the Snowmageddon comment
was as far out of bounds as I'll go.
Rick
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 6:47 PM, kinne russ wrote:
> List, I apologise. Meant that email to go to Pat alone.
> But WTH, praps the List agrees with me.
> Russ
>
>
> On Jan 26, 2016, at 6:35 PM, Charlie England wrote
:
>
> And yet, there it is.....
>
> On 1/26/2016 5:08 PM, kinne russ wrote:
>
> Depressing to think we have 10 more months of the political Yakking. Trum
p
> sounds good to me; we need someone who=99s not afraid of saying NO
to some
> people.
>
> Russ
>
> On Jan 26, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Patrick Ladd
> wrote:
>
>
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>>> Great. New
> one to me. We have the remains of your snowstorm due here as rain. UK is
> hardly afloat as it is. All field are saturated and are overflowing onto
> the roads, rivers are full. Some poor blighters have been flooded three
> times since the New Year already Fingers crossed. Pat
> *From:* Richard Girard
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
>
> Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a powerfu
l
> storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and able to ride
it
> out. I know it's a little early to think about it but there could be some
> great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good luck all.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> --
> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.
=9D Groucho Marx
> <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Snowmageddon |
Yes, I knew that one. It was `The cracked shall let in the light` that
was new. Pat
From: Herb
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
Groucho also said " I do not want to be a member of any group that would
have me as a member". :-) Herb who is not leaving!!
On 01/26/2016 09:36 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx>> Great. New one to me. We have the
remains of your snowstorm due here as rain. UK is hardly afloat as it
is. All field are saturated and are overflowing onto the roads, rivers
are full. Some poor blighters have been flooded three times since the
New Year already Fingers crossed. Pat
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 10:19 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Snowmageddon
Okay, I hate all the hype and that name in particular but it is a
powerful storm. I hope all you out there in it are safe and warm and
able to ride it out. I know it's a little early to think about it but
there could be some great ski flying after the storm has passed. Good
luck all.
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the
light.=9D Groucho Marx
--
Signature text;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks for the input guys, think I'll just use the required amount of hinge and
call it good. Even though all that flexing really bothers me, I think John has
a point about it working fine for 3300 hours.
Cheers, Gene Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452355#452355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Probably didn't make myself clear, as usual.
Any flexing is not noticeable. My description would have fit a Challenger
wing much better than Homer Kolb's wing. Do not let the minute flex bother
you.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flylawnchairs
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:03 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gap seals
-->
Thanks for the input guys, think I'll just use the required amount of hinge
and call it good. Even though all that flexing really bothers me, I think
John has a point about it working fine for 3300 hours.
Cheers, Gene Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452355#452355
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BMWBikeCrz <bmwbikecrz(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/25/16 |
Ben gone a while ... this is a test post :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Kolb-List Digest Server <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2016 3:11 am
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/25/16
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-01-25&Archive=Kolb
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 16-01-25&Archive=Kolb
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 01/25/16: 1
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:04 AM - Re: A question of Battery type (Rick Neilsen)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
I replaced my lead acid battery with a Areovoltz 8 cell lithium FE battery
about 18 months ago. I had been using a cheep 12 AH lawn mower battery that
weighed app 13 lbs. The lead acid battery was marginal at best. On a cold
morning or after few starts without any charging it would fail to power my
ignition system. Maybe I should have used a bigger battery but I don't like
weight.
The new Areovolts battery is a 15 AH equivalent and weighs 1.8 lbs. Last
spring when I got back from 6 months in Florida I tried to run the battery
down with six 5-8 second cranks with the ignition off and with a cool down
between each crank. I gave up not wanting to wear out my starter. I then
started the engine perfectly. I then hooked up a balance charger and found
the cells were within .02 volts of each other. The balance charger couldn't
improve on the already good balance.
I hear discussions about the AH equivalent rating but from what I have
experienced my old lead acid battery would drop below the necessary voltage
for my electronic ignition well before the lithium battery would quit. I
also have a alternator that bolts to the flywheel and accessory case so
there are no moving parts other than the engine. If you have to have more
reserve power get a larger lithium and you will still save considerable
weight.
The lithium FE batteries don't catch on fire like the older lithium
batteries did. My lithium FE battery doesn't need to be kept on a battery
maintainer like the old lead acid batteries did. After sitting idle in the
hanger all winter there is no measurable loss of power.
I will continue to report on my ongoing test.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 PM, wrote:
> Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, it=99s the
same one,
> that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it is the larger size
..
> So far so good.
>
> Brad
> YellowBird1
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
> *Subject: *RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's
> holler. ;-)
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&catego
ry_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
>
>
> This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I keep on
> it when I am not using. It has been in service for three years so far. Th
e
> problem is if they are regularly discharged, the float takes care of that
..
>
> Larry
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara wrote
:
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra
.so, I am
> wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
> =========
> br> fts!)
> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> www.buildersbooks.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> =========
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> =========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> =========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
> =========
>
>
> --
>
> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.*
>
>
> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending.*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Long <blong6826(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
I got a new lithium battery for Christmas from my kids.For my Kolb Firefly.
Here's the link I sent them.Not sure how safe it is but losing 10 LB sound
ed great. My 6 year old lead acid was dying.=C2-Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lith
ium Ion Sealed Battery 12V 280 CCA - Ducati Monster Hypermotard Multistrada
Street Fighter (#5): Automotive
| =C2- |
| =C2- | | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- |
| Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V...Dimensions: L: 150
x H: 64 x W: 92 (mm) Battery weight: 1.1 lbs Voltage: 12v CCA: 280 Get impr
oved performance and exceptional cranking power with this lithium io... |
| |
| View on www.amazon.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| =C2- |
On Monday, January 25, 2016 2:13 PM, Rick Neilsen
wrote:
I replaced my lead acid battery with a Areovoltz 8 cell lithium FE battery
about 18 months ago. I had been using a cheep 12 AH lawn mower battery tha
t weighed app 13 lbs. The lead acid battery was marginal at best. On a cold
morning or after few starts without any charging it would fail to power my
ignition system. Maybe I should have used a bigger battery but I don't lik
e weight.=C2-
The new Areovolts battery is a 15 AH equivalent and weighs 1.8 lbs. Last sp
ring when I got back from 6 months in Florida I tried to run the battery do
wn with six 5-8 second cranks with the ignition off and with a cool down be
tween each crank. I gave up not wanting to wear out my starter. I then star
ted the engine perfectly. I then hooked up a balance charger and found the
cells were within .02 volts of each other. The balance charger couldn't imp
rove on the already good balance. =C2-
I hear discussions about the AH equivalent rating but from what I have expe
rienced my old lead acid battery would drop below the necessary voltage for
my electronic ignition well before the lithium battery would quit. I also
have a alternator that bolts to the flywheel and accessory case so there ar
e no moving parts other than the engine. If you have to have more reserve p
ower get a larger lithium and you will still save considerable weight.
The lithium FE batteries don't catch on fire like the older lithium batteri
es did. My lithium FE battery doesn't =C2-need to be kept on a battery ma
intainer like the old lead acid batteries did. After sitting idle in the ha
nger all winter there is no measurable loss of power.=C2-
I will continue to report on my ongoing test.
Rick NeilsenRedrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 PM, wrote:
Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, it=99s the sa
me one, that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it is the large
r size. So far so good.
BradYellowBird1
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's hol
ler.=C2- ;-)=C2-john hmkIIITitus, Alabama=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-From:
owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matroni
cs.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type=C2-http://www.arizonab
attery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category_id=b291dca6cea29
7f2a41f49052a63d38d&=C2-This is the one that I use and have a cheap float
charger that I =C2-keep on it when I am not using. It has been in servic
e for three years so far. The problem is if they are regularly discharged,
the float takes care of that.Larry=C2-=C2-On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35
PM, Nick Cassara wrote:--> Kolb-List message posted b
y: Nick Cassara
Kolbers,
In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my Kolbra.s
o, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between Lead acid and Lithiu
m.
Thank you as always for your insights!
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
PAAQ
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.builders
books.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2---The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
.=C2-If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
I think all the Kolbs have a solid hinge at the root, and piano hinges along the
rest of the wing, and typically the tips have a bit of flex from the piano hinges.
If you want the aileron tip end to be solid with no flex: you know those
stainless L hinges that are used to secure the leading edge of the horizontal
stab? Buy 8 extra stainless L hinges and use them as tip aileron hinges and
the flex will go away.
http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/pg8.htm
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452377#452377
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Note that it says 'lithium *ion*'. If you ever offer me a ride, please
remember to tell me about your battery.
:-)
Seriously, the ones that have a (limited) good record in a/c lithium
iron phosphate, like Rick described. If yours is really lithium ion (as
used in RC model planes, etc), tread carefully.
For reference, EarthX makes lithium FE batteries intended to be direct
replacements for Odyssey PC680 batteries. They actually publish
discharge curves for their batteries showing similar total energy to the
680, a true 12 AH battery. The EarthX weighs 4.1 lbs; the YT12B weighs
1.1 lbs.
For me, these data points indicate a couple (three, actually) of things.
First, the YT12B probably *is* a lithium ion battery. Second, it's
probably rated as a 12 AH equivalent, *only for starting*, meaning that
if you need endurance from the battery in the case of an alternator
failure, you may not have it. Last, there's significantly greater fire
risk from the YT12B.
But those are just my opinions; worth what you paid...
Charlie
PS: I'm not advocating for EarthX; it's taken them a long time to
publish useful info & their technical spokesperson has often seemed to
lack technical knowledge in previous exchanges.
On 1/27/2016 7:01 PM, William Long wrote:
> I got a new lithium battery for Christmas from my kids.For my Kolb
> Firefly. Here's the link I sent them.
> Not sure how safe it is but losing 10 LB sounded great. My 6 year old
> lead acid was dying.
> Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V 280 CCA - Ducati
> Monster Hypermotard Multistrada Street Fighter (#5): Automotive
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
> image
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V...
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
> Dimensions: L: 150 x H: 64 x W: 92 (mm) Battery weight: 1.1 lbs
> Voltage: 12v CCA: 280 Get improved performance and exceptional
> cranking power with this lithium io...
>
> View on www.amazon.com
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> On Monday, January 25, 2016 2:13 PM, Rick Neilsen
> wrote:
>
>
> I replaced my lead acid battery with a Areovoltz 8 cell lithium FE
> battery about 18 months ago. I had been using a cheep 12 AH lawn mower
> battery that weighed app 13 lbs. The lead acid battery was marginal at
> best. On a cold morning or after few starts without any charging it
> would fail to power my ignition system. Maybe I should have used a
> bigger battery but I don't like weight.
>
> The new Areovolts battery is a 15 AH equivalent and weighs 1.8 lbs.
> Last spring when I got back from 6 months in Florida I tried to run
> the battery down with six 5-8 second cranks with the ignition off and
> with a cool down between each crank. I gave up not wanting to wear out
> my starter. I then started the engine perfectly. I then hooked up a
> balance charger and found the cells were within .02 volts of each
> other. The balance charger couldn't improve on the already good balance.
>
> I hear discussions about the AH equivalent rating but from what I have
> experienced my old lead acid battery would drop below the necessary
> voltage for my electronic ignition well before the lithium battery
> would quit. I also have a alternator that bolts to the flywheel and
> accessory case so there are no moving parts other than the engine. If
> you have to have more reserve power get a larger lithium and you will
> still save considerable weight.
>
> The lithium FE batteries don't catch on fire like the older lithium
> batteries did. My lithium FE battery doesn't need to be kept on a
> battery maintainer like the old lead acid batteries did. After sitting
> idle in the hanger all winter there is no measurable loss of power.
>
> I will continue to report on my ongoing test.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 PM, > wrote:
>
> Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, its the
> same one, that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it
> is the larger size. So far so good.
>
> Brad
> YellowBird1
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com
> >
> *To: *"kolb-list" >
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
> *Subject: *RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to
> hauck's holler. ;-)
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] *On Behalf Of
> *Larry Cottrell
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:34 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
> http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d&
> This is the one that I use and have a cheap float charger that I
> keep on it when I am not using. It has been in service for three
> years so far. The problem is if they are regularly discharged, the
> float takes care of that.
> Larry
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Nick Cassara > wrote:
> >
>
> Kolbers,
>
> In a few months I will be needing to buy a battery for my
> Kolbra.so, I am wondering where we stand in the debate between
> Lead acid and Lithium.
> Thank you as always for your insights!
>
> Nick Cassara
> Palmer, AK
> PAAQ
>
> ==========
> br> fts!)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
While my Firestar doesn't have flaps, my ailerons have hinge the length of the
aileron, not however from the inside edge of the aileron to the wing root and
I think this a very good gap seal.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:49:20 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Gap seals
Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered
about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing
edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone
think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit
?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A question of Battery type |
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
William
I have been using a Areovoltz battery in my MKIIIC it is a Lithium Iron
Phosphate battery. Lithium Ion batteries have a history of not tolerating
low or high voltages very well and doing bad things. If we believe the
literature on Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries these low or high voltages
are much better tolerated, at the very least they aren't supposed to catch
on fire.
What I do know is my battery looks to be very well made, extreemly light,
very powerful, and doesn't loose any measurable power with 6 months in
storage.
As always worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 10:42 PM, Charlie England
wrote:
> Note that it says 'lithium *ion*'. If you ever offer me a ride, please
> remember to tell me about your battery.
> :-)
>
> Seriously, the ones that have a (limited) good record in a/c lithium iron
> phosphate, like Rick described. If yours is really lithium ion (as used i
n
> RC model planes, etc), tread carefully.
>
> For reference, EarthX makes lithium FE batteries intended to be direct
> replacements for Odyssey PC680 batteries. They actually publish discharge
> curves for their batteries showing similar total energy to the 680, a tru
e
> 12 AH battery. The EarthX weighs 4.1 lbs; the YT12B weighs 1.1 lbs.
>
> For me, these data points indicate a couple (three, actually) of things.
> First, the YT12B probably *is* a lithium ion battery. Second, it's probab
ly
> rated as a 12 AH equivalent, *only for starting*, meaning that if you nee
d
> endurance from the battery in the case of an alternator failure, you may
> not have it. Last, there's significantly greater fire risk from the YT12B
.
>
> But those are just my opinions; worth what you paid...
>
> Charlie
> PS: I'm not advocating for EarthX; it's taken them a long time to publish
> useful info & their technical spokesperson has often seemed to lack
> technical knowledge in previous exchanges.
>
>
> On 1/27/2016 7:01 PM, William Long wrote:
>
> I got a new lithium battery for Christmas from my kids.For my Kolb
> Firefly. Here's the link I sent them.
> Not sure how safe it is but losing 10 LB sounded great. My 6 year old lea
d
> acid was dying.
> Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V 280 CCA - Ducati
> Monster Hypermotard Multistrada Street Fighter (#5): Automotive
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?t
ag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
>
> [image: image]
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?t
ag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
>
>
> Amazon.com: YT12B-BS Lithium Ion Sealed Battery 12V...
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?t
ag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
> Dimensions: L: 150 x H: 64 x W: 92 (mm) Battery weight: 1.1 lbs Voltage:
> 12v CCA: 280 Get improved performance and exceptional cranking power with
> this lithium io...
>
> View on www.amazon.com
> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DY70RQ/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?t
ag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=8c987a3d56d7e7185d64c9e92cd3d206_S>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> On Monday, January 25, 2016 2:13 PM, Rick Neilsen
> wrote:
>
>
> I replaced my lead acid battery with a Areovoltz 8 cell lithium FE batter
y
> about 18 months ago. I had been using a cheep 12 AH lawn mower battery th
at
> weighed app 13 lbs. The lead acid battery was marginal at best. On a cold
> morning or after few starts without any charging it would fail to power m
y
> ignition system. Maybe I should have used a bigger battery but I don't li
ke
> weight.
>
> The new Areovolts battery is a 15 AH equivalent and weighs 1.8 lbs. Last
> spring when I got back from 6 months in Florida I tried to run the batter
y
> down with six 5-8 second cranks with the ignition off and with a cool dow
n
> between each crank. I gave up not wanting to wear out my starter. I then
> started the engine perfectly. I then hooked up a balance charger and foun
d
> the cells were within .02 volts of each other. The balance charger couldn
't
> improve on the already good balance.
>
> I hear discussions about the AH equivalent rating but from what I have
> experienced my old lead acid battery would drop below the necessary volta
ge
> for my electronic ignition well before the lithium battery would quit. I
> also have a alternator that bolts to the flywheel and accessory case so
> there are no moving parts other than the engine. If you have to have more
> reserve power get a larger lithium and you will still save considerable
> weight.
>
> The lithium FE batteries don't catch on fire like the older lithium
> batteries did. My lithium FE battery doesn't need to be kept on a batter
y
> maintainer like the old lead acid batteries did. After sitting idle in th
e
> hanger all winter there is no measurable loss of power.
>
> I will continue to report on my ongoing test.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 7:06 PM, <
> nationcap(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Recently replaced mine with a AutoCraft Lithium, LFP-7, it=99s the
same one,
> that Bryan Melborn is putting in his builds, except it is the larger size
.
> So far so good.
>
> Brad
> YellowBird1
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"John Hauck" < <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
> *To: *"kolb-list" < kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:41:28 PM
> *Subject: *RE: Kolb-List: A question of Battery type
>
>
> Good price for an AGM battery, but the want 24.80 to mail it to hauck's
> holler. ;-)
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
January 10, 2016 - February 06, 2016
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-np