Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ok
December 19, 2016 - February 24, 2017
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> > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine
> democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle "Daddy, tell me...why are you
> going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of
> deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"?
> Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
>
>
> --
> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
>
> Aristotle
>
> "Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what
does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is
Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Just looking at your mounting of the oil cooler - if it was me, I would be using
something more like pure rubber at the front and back - probably something more
like this:
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277592_0_5060?checkfit=true
or this -
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277528_458130_17551?checkfit=true
I have used 2 of these for years to hang the muffler on my MKIII - grind off the
rivet heads, and throw away all the metal parts, keep the rubber hangar and
use it. It is cut from a section of tire sidewall and flexes well without coming
apart. Every third year I throw them away and put in new ones just so I don't
have to worry about it.
I just have a bad feeling that those nice aluminum brackets you currently have
are going to fatigue, crack, and disappoint you. They look nice tho...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464206#464206
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try |
Thanks Richard, I appreciate your comments. One thing that is not clear in the
photos is that there are large diameter rubber grommets in both the cooler-mounted
bracket and the airframe-mounted bracket.The pivot bolt shown in the photos
goes through both grommets.
So with the rubber in both aluminum pieces the cooler can move easily without deforming
or twisting either of the aluminum brackets, plus it can rotate on the
pivot bolt.
The rubber padding on the modifieed Adel clamps holding it to the steel cross tube
is only to protect the steel tune. The "compliance" or flexibility i the mount
comes from the grommets.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/19/16, Richard Pike wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, December 19, 2016, 9:21 PM
"Richard Pike"
Just looking at your mounting of the oil cooler - if it was
me, I would be using something more like pure rubber at the
front and back - probably something more like this:
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277592_0_5060?checkfit=true
or this -
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277528_458130_17551?checkfit=true
I have used 2 of these for years to hang the muffler on my
MKIII - grind off the rivet heads, and throw away all the
metal parts, keep the rubber hangar and use it. It is cut
from a section of tire sidewall and flexes well without
coming apart. Every third year I throw them away and put in
new ones just so I don't have to worry about it.
I just have a bad feeling that those nice aluminum brackets
you currently have are going to fatigue, crack, and
disappoint you. They look nice tho...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464206#464206
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
www.mypilotstore.com
www.mrrace.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try |
Wow... did I kill the Kolb list again....?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/19/16, Richard Pike wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, December 19, 2016, 9:21 PM
"Richard Pike"
Just looking at your mounting of the oil cooler - if it was
me, I would be using something more like pure rubber at the
front and back - probably something more like this:
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277592_0_5060?checkfit=true
or this -
http://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/exhaust-system-hanger/walker-exhaust-system-hanger/277528_458130_17551?checkfit=true
I have used 2 of these for years to hang the muffler on my
MKIII - grind off the rivet heads, and throw away all the
metal parts, keep the rubber hangar and use it. It is cut
from a section of tire sidewall and flexes well without
coming apart. Every third year I throw them away and put in
new ones just so I don't have to worry about it.
I just have a bad feeling that those nice aluminum brackets
you currently have are going to fatigue, crack, and
disappoint you. They look nice tho...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464206#464206
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
www.mypilotstore.com
www.mrrace.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firestar 2 Progress PHOTOS 4th try |
Wow... did I kill the Kolb list again....?
No, I think most are not doing anything more than sitting by the fire.
I know that the dust is thick on my plane at the moment.
Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb FSII for sale - This is where the pictures are |
| From: | "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com> |
Hello from Ohio. In my passed life I flew ultralights and some old Pipers. Interested
in getting this great aircraft back into the air. This project is now
in Ohio. Trying to decide which way to go with it. The air worthiness certificate
was cancelled by the original builder, liability reasons I guess.. How
would one re-certify or get new registration?
If it can't be re-certified, can it be built to ultralight weight. Open to all
comments and useful info as well as negative comments.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Jim P.
War Eagle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464238#464238
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Parts for sale |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Update: The altimeter is sold. The Bendix-King radio is sold. My partner/buddy
was not in agreement about selling the 503/gearbox/prop/electric starter for $1,000
plus shipping, so it is now going on ebay for $1,500 plus shipping. Still
have the Terra radio.
Merry Christmas!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464243#464243
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
Trying to decide which way to go with it. The air worthiness certificate
was cancelled by the original builder, liability reasons I guess.. How
would one re-certify or get new registration?
*****************
Look up the phone number for your local FSDO. And ask
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
I would not call the Friendly Aviation Advisors until I had a plan...
I do not claim to be an expert, but it is my understanding that...
Once airworthiness document is surrendered it can never be recoverd or
reestablished with that airframe serial number..
Check the registry to verify the actual status...
Registering as exhibition is extremely restrictive...don=99t go
that direction until you get the details, and I dont think you can get
that anyway once it has been pulled from the registry.
It is not uncommon practice to rebuild GA certified aircraft starting
from a crashed aircraft data plate....
It is common to rebuild experimentals after damage from new kit parts or
existing parts from another similar experimental aircraft.....Obviously
need an A&P sign off...maybe IA.....maybe even DER and may need a fly
off period because it qualifies as a rather major repair .
I would be thinking about using your parts to repair someone else's
damaged aircraft that is still registered, has a SN, and data plate. I
would talk to guys in my local EAA chapter and maybe EAA headquarters to
make sure I was staying within the rules before talking to FAA. .
Again , I don=99t claim to be an expert, but if it were me, this
is were I would start looking for solution......
Bob
From: B Young
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16
Trying to decide which way to go with it. The air worthiness
certificate
was cancelled by the original builder, liability reasons I guess.. How
would one re-certify or get new registration?
*****************
..Look up the phone number for your local FSDO. And ask
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb FSII for sale - This is where the pictures are |
Jim,
I would venture to say that a Firestar I (or II) cannot be built to the
ultralight weight limit of 254 lbs (279 if a BRS is installed). Kolb
advertised the original Firestar as "might need a BRS to qualify as an UL". And
that model used a lot of the .028" wall thickness aluminum tubing in the
wing and tail structure for lightness. And I am not sure of the wall
thickness used for the steel tubing, but I was told by Kolb not to use any more
power than the Rotax 447.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Rotax 447
22 years of flying/528 hours.
In a message dated 12/21/2016 7:59:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
japnmjp(at)twc.com writes:
If it can't be re-certified, can it be built to ultralight weight. Open to
all comments and useful info as well as negative comments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
| From: | "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com> |
Thanks Boyd,
The data plate is not on this frame. There is a number stamped on the cage but
it doesn't match the serial number on the aw cert. So I'm wondering if I rebuild
with photos to document, I could register it using the serial no. on the
cage. It needs new tail feathers, tail boom and a new folding tail setup and
everything will have to be assembled and reset up or rigged. All control cables
will need to be fabricated. It will need new covering and painting. Maybe
ELSA?
Thanks,
Jim P
WAR EAGLE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464263#464263
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
japowell wrote:
>
>
>
> S . N . I . P . Maybe ELSA?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim P
> WAR EAGLE
The effort you describe could possibly lead to Experimental - Amateur Built not
ELSA.
Above worth what you paid for it.....
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464264#464264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
One more thing to check is the serial number on the engine. Make sure you
have a paper trail for everything.
ESLA had to be built exactly to the plans without mods till after the aw
cert. Experimental can be built the way you want.
With experimental you can get repairman cert. WITH ESLA. Any buyer can
get a repairman documents with a course..
You don't have to build it all.. just be able to show it was built by
armatures.
When a plane is sold the registration should be turned in... And it should
be reissued to the buyer for the asking. Just send in your copy of the 3
part sales form.
Boyd
On Dec 22, 2016 5:13 PM, "japowell" wrote:
>
> Thanks Boyd,
>
> The data plate is not on this frame. There is a number stamped on the
> cage but it doesn't match the serial number on the aw cert. So I'm
> wondering if I rebuild with photos to document, I could register it using
> the serial no. on the cage. It needs new tail feathers, tail boom and a
> new folding tail setup and everything will have to be assembled and reset
> up or rigged. All control cables will need to be fabricated. It will need
> new covering and painting. Maybe ELSA?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim P
> WAR EAGLE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464263#464263
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
| From: | "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com> |
Both bill of sales says miscellaneous non-airworthy experimental aircraft parts.
Doesn't mention engine, just parts.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464268#464268
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
You should be good
On Dec 22, 2016 7:10 PM, "japowell" wrote:
>
> Both bill of sales says miscellaneous non-airworthy experimental aircraft
> parts. Doesn't mention engine, just parts.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464268#464268
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
I had a DAR tell me that exhibition registration is not nearly as
limiting as it once was...Herb
On 12/22/2016 06:35 PM, George Alexander wrote:
>
>
> japowell wrote:
>>
>>
>> S . N . I . P . Maybe ELSA?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim P
>> WAR EAGLE
>
> The effort you describe could possibly lead to Experimental - Amateur Built not
ELSA.
>
> Above worth what you paid for it.....
>
> --------
> George Alexander
> FS II R503 N709FS
> http://www.oh2fly.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464264#464264
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what
does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin
and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
Things have been slow lately so...
Some time ago there was a discussion about putting a flat surface on the
end of the aileron balance rods. The intent was to lighten the control
pressure on the stick. The elevators are very light but the ailerons are
heavy, so wouldn't it be nice to have them more balanced.
I never liked the idea of changing the mechanical advantage at the expense
of less defection. There could be times on takeoff or landing that
turbulence might require all
you can get out of your ailerons.
It seems like someone tried balance rod fin and it didn't work. I don't
know the details or how much they experimented with it. I think I saw a
Kolb with this on their plane at Sun N Fun or Oshkosh in the last year and
wonder if anyone knows anything about it.
I have wanted to do something to better balance the control forces on my
plane. Years ago I welded up a pair of balance weights with with a fin on
it (spad). I never installed it for fear that it would be too powerful and
snatch the aileron to full defection or cause some flutter. I have also
pondered how or what angle to set the fin to align the fin with the airflow
off the wing tip.
Any thoughts or information out there.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
Sorry, There's no way to register your plane as an Experimental Light Sport
Aircraft (ELSA). That option ended January 31st, 2008 when the
grandfathering period ended. In order to register as an ELSA since it must
be an exact copy of a qualifying Special Light Sport Aircraft (SLSA). See
FAR 21.191(i)1-3.
Rick Girard
Merry Christmas Everyone
How did Peace on Earth Goodwill toward Men become LOCK YOUR CAR TAKE YOUR
KEYS HIDE YOUR ITEMS?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 8:08 PM, japowell wrote:
>
> Both bill of sales says miscellaneous non-airworthy experimental aircraft
> parts. Doesn't mention engine, just parts.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464268#464268
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 12/21/16 |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Talking to a DAR about this subject...since I just bought the "for
training only" Challenger II...He named two ways to get it legal...The
only one I recall was some sort of Exhibition method...Saying that there
was not nearly as much restriction on planes with that registration mode
.. as times past...almost none....Feds quite lax or regs have changed?
Herb
On 12/24/2016 10:59 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Sorry, There's no way to register your plane as an Experimental Light
> Sport Aircraft (ELSA). That option ended January 31st, 2008 when the
> grandfathering period ended. In order to register as an ELSA since it
> must be an exact copy of a qualifying Special Light Sport Aircraft
> (SLSA). See FAR 21.191(i)1-3.
>
> Rick Girard
> Merry Christmas Everyone
> How did Peace on Earth Goodwill toward Men become LOCK YOUR CAR TAKE
> YOUR KEYS HIDE YOUR ITEMS?
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 8:08 PM, japowell > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Both bill of sales says miscellaneous non-airworthy experimental
> aircraft parts. Doesn't mention engine, just parts.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464268#464268
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464268#464268>
>
>
> ===================================
> br> fts!)
> r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
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> target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ===================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> --
>
>
> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho
> Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what
does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin
and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
You can put on aileron spades, many aerobatic aircraft use them of course. But
for both safety and function, they would have to be in the center of the aileron
instead of out at the tip, and then this would possibly cause problems when
folding the wings.
There is of course the flutter question on top of any other problem. A properly
trained engineer (a flutter-trained dynamics guy, not just an aero engineering
degree) wouuld have to look at it and determine whether the wall thickness of
the leading edge tube would have enough stiffness. Not "strength", but stiffness...
to prevent the whole thing from starting to swing back and forth and become
"excited" into a flutter mode.
The aileron structure of the Kolb was ALREADY prone to flutter, which is why the
balance rods became a mandatory upgrade/option. Puting the spades out at the
end may or may not be safe to do, but there are only a handful of people who
are qualified to make that determination.
A "servo tab" is another way to reduce the control forces, and it also comes with
its own concerns and problems.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/24/16, Rick Neilsen wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Tip Spads
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Saturday, December 24, 2016, 8:53 AM
Things have been slow lately
so...
Some time ago there was a
discussion about putting a flat surface on the end of the
aileron balance rods. The intent was to lighten the control
pressure on the stick. The elevators are very light but the
ailerons are heavy, so wouldn't it be nice to have them
more balanced.
I never liked the idea of changing
the mechanical advantage at the expense of less defection.
There could be times on takeoff or landing that turbulence
might require allyou can get out of your
ailerons.
It seems like someone tried balance
rod fin and it didn't work. I don't know the details
or how much they experimented with it. I think I saw a Kolb
with this on their plane at Sun N Fun or Oshkosh in the last
year and wonder if anyone knows anything about it.
I have wanted to do something to
better balance the control forces on my plane. Years ago I
welded up a pair of balance weights with with a fin on it
(spad). I never installed it for fear that it would be too
powerful and snatch the aileron to full defection or cause
some flutter. I have also pondered how or what angle to set
the fin to align the fin with the airflow off the wing
tip.
Any thoughts or information out
there.
Rick NeilsenRedrive VW Powered
MKIIIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> |
Interesting discussion.
How about using multiple spades. Smaller of course and distributed along the aileron.
Perhaps centered between the hinges.
If a bracket could be formed that would fit snuggly against the aileron tube and
be big enough you could just pop rivet it on. For experimental purposes I would
use screws to attach the spade to the bracket allowing for easy changes of
size and shape. Could be permanently riveted once the experimenting was done.
I am thinking multiple but smaller spades will transmit lighter forces to the aileron
tube and the rivets used to attach them but the cumulative effect would
be applied to the entire aileron.
If the spade is in front of the hinge and aileron behind wouldn't they help reduce
both flutter and control forces? Of course this would be at the expense of
drag.
Would spades add to adverse yaw or help control it?
How fast is a Firefly? Not fast enough to worry about these things. :)
Merry Christmas everyone!
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2016 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Wing Tip Spads
You can put on aileron spades, many aerobatic aircraft use them of course. But
for both safety and function, they would have to be in the center of the aileron
instead of out at the tip, and then this would possibly cause problems when
folding the wings.
There is of course the flutter question on top of any other problem. A properly
trained engineer (a flutter-trained dynamics guy, not just an aero engineering
degree) wouuld have to look at it and determine whether the wall thickness of
the leading edge tube would have enough stiffness. Not "strength", but stiffness...
to prevent the whole thing from starting to swing back and forth and become
"excited" into a flutter mode.
The aileron structure of the Kolb was ALREADY prone to flutter, which is why the
balance rods became a mandatory upgrade/option. Puting the spades out at the
end may or may not be safe to do, but there are only a handful of people who
are qualified to make that determination.
A "servo tab" is another way to reduce the control forces, and it also comes with
its own concerns and problems.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/24/16, Rick Neilsen wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Wing Tip Spads
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Saturday, December 24, 2016, 8:53 AM
Things have been slow lately
so...
Some time ago there was a
discussion about putting a flat surface on the end of the aileron balance rods.
The intent was to lighten the control pressure on the stick. The elevators
are very light but the ailerons are heavy, so wouldn't it be nice to have them
more balanced. I never liked the idea of changing the mechanical advantage
at the expense of less defection.
There could be times on takeoff or landing that turbulence might require all
you can get out of your ailerons.
It seems like someone tried balance
rod fin and it didn't work. I don't know the details or how much they experimented
with it. I think I saw a Kolb with this on their plane at Sun N Fun or
Oshkosh in the last year and wonder if anyone knows anything about it.
I have wanted to do something to
better balance the control forces on my plane. Years ago I welded up a pair of
balance weights with with a fin on it (spad). I never installed it for fear
that it would be too powerful and snatch the aileron to full defection or cause
some flutter. I have also pondered how or what angle to set the fin to align
the fin with the airflow off the wing tip.
Any thoughts or information out
there.
Rick NeilsenRedrive VW Powered
MKIIIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2016 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2016 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous
Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Andy, Bob, George, and Jon for their generous support through
the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent
products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2016 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2016.html
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and visit, I
would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an honor. I reduced the
aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in effort was remarkable. I think
you would find the control authority to be non-compromised.
Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked original Firestar,
and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can find the "sweet spot"
for rigging the ailerons. You might consider trying something similar, it
is one of those things where if you try it and don't like it, you can put it
back to where it was.
Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something to |
add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Richard
I appreciate the offer and have no doubt that your change works as you
describe but you may have missed my point of concern. When you are near
stall speed on takeoff and landing and you get into turbulence that can
spell disaster you might need every degree of aileron deflection that Homer
designed into our airplanes. I don't know that I have ever utilized full
aileron deflection but my Kolb got me through what mother nature threw at
me. It would have been a small consolation that is was easy to get to a
aileron control stop that didn't save me. Yes I want it all, balanced
controls, full defection and maybe no adverse yaw. But I can live with the
stock configuration.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
>
> Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and
> visit, I would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an honor.
> I reduced the aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in effort was
> remarkable. I think you would find the control authority to be
> non-compromised.
>
> Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked
> original Firestar, and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can find
> the "sweet spot" for rigging the ailerons. You might consider trying
> something similar, it is one of those things where if you try it and don't
> like it, you can put it back to where it was.
>
> Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Don't know that I ever hit an aileron control stop in my MKIII, but did
once in the factory Firefly at Sun and Fun one rear during extremely
turbulent cross wind. Got my attention.
Changing mechanical advantage is good as long as you still have enough
lateral stick to get full deflection.
BTW: My MKIII ailerons are a little smaller than standard. Above 60
mph they start getting heavy. In turbulent situations where a lot of
aileron is required quickly, slow down around 50 or 60 and take care of
business.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
Richard
I appreciate the offer and have no doubt that your change works as you
describe but you may have missed my point of concern. When you are near
stall speed on takeoff and landing and you get into turbulence that can
spell disaster you might need every degree of aileron deflection that
Homer designed into our airplanes. I don't know that I have ever
utilized full aileron deflection but my Kolb got me through what mother
nature threw at me. It would have been a small consolation that is was
easy to get to a aileron control stop that didn't save me. Yes I want it
all, balanced controls, full defection and maybe no adverse yaw. But I
can live with the stock configuration.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and
visit, I would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an
honor. I reduced the aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in
effort was remarkable. I think you would find the control authority to
be non-compromised.
Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked
original Firestar, and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can
find the "sweet spot" for rigging the ailerons. You might consider
trying something similar, it is one of those things where if you try it
and don't like it, you can put it back to where it was.
Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg>
br> fts!)
r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
p.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Ho, ho, ho!
Thanks for all the presents, Santa, but I got nothing for my Kolb. ;-(
Merry Christmas to all my Kolb friends. Next month will be 19 years I
have been a member of this List. Sure could have used it back in the
beginning of my Kolb experience when there was no one around to ask for
help and share the building and flying experience. Soon to be 33 years
I have been a Kolb builder and flyer. My how time flies.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got
something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
The first line of my message below should have read "year", not "rear"
;-)
Speaking of heavy ailerons, I complained to Homer once about those heavy
ailerons. He told me to be gentle. The airplane will turn.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
Don't know that I ever hit an aileron control stop in my MKIII, but did
once in the factory Firefly at Sun and Fun one rear during extremely
turbulent cross wind. Got my attention.
Changing mechanical advantage is good as long as you still have enough
lateral stick to get full deflection.
BTW: My MKIII ailerons are a little smaller than standard. Above 60
mph they start getting heavy. In turbulent situations where a lot of
aileron is required quickly, slow down around 50 or 60 and take care of
business.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
Richard
I appreciate the offer and have no doubt that your change works as you
describe but you may have missed my point of concern. When you are near
stall speed on takeoff and landing and you get into turbulence that can
spell disaster you might need every degree of aileron deflection that
Homer designed into our airplanes. I don't know that I have ever
utilized full aileron deflection but my Kolb got me through what mother
nature threw at me. It would have been a small consolation that is was
easy to get to a aileron control stop that didn't save me. Yes I want it
all, balanced controls, full defection and maybe no adverse yaw. But I
can live with the stock configuration.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and
visit, I would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an
honor. I reduced the aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in
effort was remarkable. I think you would find the control authority to
be non-compromised.
Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked
original Firestar, and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can
find the "sweet spot" for rigging the ailerons. You might consider
trying something similar, it is one of those things where if you try it
and don't like it, you can put it back to where it was.
Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg>
br> fts!)
r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
p.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Merry Christmas and/or Happy Whatever Holiday you celebrate to all of my friends
on the Kolb list.
Thank you for your friendship and brotherhood, and for sharing our mutual interest
in this innovative and brilliant little aircraft.
Looking forward to a great new year in 2017, finally getting my HKS Firestar ready,
and getting to do some adventurous off-airport flying.
Can't speak for anyone else, but my 2017 will start getting noticeably better right
around January 20th...
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 12/25/16, B Young wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something to
add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
To: "Kolb List"
Date: Sunday, December 25, 2016, 9:33 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Rick and John are both right. I have always attempted to squeeze all the
speed that I could out of my Firestar. Along with that comes increased
aileron pressure. Of course any modification requires one to be able to
accept the results for it to be effective. I tried moving the control arms
in to lessen the load. Perhaps I didn't give it enough of a try, but I soon
changed them back to original. John is right, when it gets rough, slow
down. While it will take longer to get out of it, the forces are
acceptable. I have gotten into the habit of using my knee to assist the
stick movements.
I once stalled at about 40 feet over the ground while doing "Too slow
flight". The right wing dropped to where it was pointing at the ground. The
ailerons were able to level me out and reduce the damage to the plane when
I hit.The extra forces are caused when we are not flying it as it is
intended to be flown. Now I have no intention of taking off the things that
allow me to cruise at 70 + MPH. I am willing to suffer the consequences.
Its all in what makes you happy.
Merry Christmas
Larry
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:56 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> Don't know that I ever hit an aileron control stop in my MKIII, but did
> once in the factory Firefly at Sun and Fun one rear during extremely
> turbulent cross wind. Got my attention.
>
>
> Changing mechanical advantage is good as long as you still have enough
> lateral stick to get full deflection.
>
>
> BTW: My MKIII ailerons are a little smaller than standard. Above 60 mph
> they start getting heavy. In turbulent situations where a lot of aileron
> is required quickly, slow down around 50 or 60 and take care of business.
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Neilsen
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:37 AM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
>
>
> Richard
>
>
> I appreciate the offer and have no doubt that your change works as you
> describe but you may have missed my point of concern. When you are near
> stall speed on takeoff and landing and you get into turbulence that can
> spell disaster you might need every degree of aileron deflection that Homer
> designed into our airplanes. I don't know that I have ever utilized full
> aileron deflection but my Kolb got me through what mother nature threw at
> me. It would have been a small consolation that is was easy to get to a
> aileron control stop that didn't save me. Yes I want it all, balanced
> controls, full defection and maybe no adverse yaw. But I can live with the
> stock configuration.
>
>
> Rick Neilsen
>
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Richard Pike
> wrote:
>
>
> Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and
> visit, I would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an honor.
> I reduced the aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in effort was
> remarkable. I think you would find the control authority to be
> non-compromised.
>
> Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked
> original Firestar, and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can find
> the "sweet spot" for rigging the ailerons. You might consider trying
> something similar, it is one of those things where if you try it and don't
> like it, you can put it back to where it was.
>
> Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg>
>
>
> ===================================
> br> fts!)
> r> > com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.
> buildersbooks.com
> p.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> e.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
> " rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ===================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.
> matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ==========
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
| From: | chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com> |
January 20th.good luck to you the country and the world ! Chris
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 25, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>
> Merry Christmas and/or Happy Whatever Holiday you celebrate to all of my friends
on the Kolb list.
>
> Thank you for your friendship and brotherhood, and for sharing our mutual interest
in this innovative and brilliant little aircraft.
>
> Looking forward to a great new year in 2017, finally getting my HKS Firestar
ready, and getting to do some adventurous off-airport flying.
>
> Can't speak for anyone else, but my 2017 will start getting noticeably better
right around January 20th...
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 12/25/16, B Young wrote:
>
> Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something to
add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
> To: "Kolb List"
> Date: Sunday, December 25, 2016, 9:33 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Swan <arksey(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
TheFirestar ll that I purchased several years ago had aileronspades that c
ould be detached from the aileron and that was the case when I lookedat the
plane....the owner showed them to me ..they were I thought quite big andI
thought to myself that it made no sense to put such things on the aileronsa
nd put all that pressure on the hinges...so I left them thereat th
at time Iam not sure I knew what aileron spades were.....the selle
r was the 2nd ownerof the plane.....later on I talked with the builder of t
he plane and he saidthe spades worked excellent and that I should have take
n them.....afterspeaking with him I came away thinking he might know what h
e was talkingabout...
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 25, 2016 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
Rick and John are both right. I have always attempted to squeeze all the sp
eed that I could out of my Firestar. Along with that comes increased ailero
n pressure. Of course any modification requires one to be able to accept th
e results for it to be effective. I tried moving the control arms in to les
sen the load. Perhaps I didn't give it enough of a try, but I soon changed
them back to original. John is right, when it gets rough, slow down. While
it will take longer to get out of it, the forces are acceptable. I have got
ten into the habit of using my knee to assist the stick movements.
I once stalled at about 40 feet over the ground while doing "Too slow fligh
t". The right wing dropped to where it was pointing at the ground. The aile
rons were able to level me out and reduce the damage to the plane when I hi
t.The extra forces are caused when we are not flying it as it is intended t
o be flown. Now I have no intention of taking off the things that allow me
to cruise at 70 + MPH. I am willing to suffer the consequences. Its all in
what makes you happy.
Merry Christmas
Larry
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:56 AM, John Hauck wrote:
Don't know that I ever hit an aileron control stop in my MKIII, but did onc
e in the factory Firefly at Sun and Fun one rear during extremely turbulent
cross wind. Got my attention.
Changing mechanical advantage is good as long as you still have enough late
ral stick to get full deflection.
BTW: My MKIII ailerons are a little smaller than standard. Above 60 mph t
hey start getting heavy. In turbulent situations where a lot of aileron is
required quickly, slow down around 50 or 60 and take care of business.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Neilsen
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
Richard
I appreciate the offer and have no doubt that your change works as you desc
ribe but you may have missed my point of concern. When you are near stall s
peed on takeoff and landing and you get into turbulence that can spell disa
ster you might need every degree of aileron deflection that Homer designed
into our airplanes. I don't know that I have ever utilized full aileron def
lection but my Kolb got me through what mother nature threw at me. It would
have been a small consolation that is was easy to get to a aileron control
stop that didn't save me. Yes I want it all, balanced controls, full defec
tion and maybe no adverse yaw. But I can live with the stock configuration.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Richard Pike w
rote:
Rick, if you ever get anywhere near NE Tennessee, I hope you come and visit
, I would love for you to fly my MKIII, I would consider it an honor. I red
uced the aileron throw just a little, but the reduction in effort was remar
kable. I think you would find the control authority to be non-compromised.
Right now I am in the process of building a Firefly out of a wrecked origin
al Firestar, and have built the aileron bellcrank so that we can find the "
sweet spot" for rigging the ailerons. You might consider trying something s
imilar, it is one of those things where if you try it and don't like it, yo
u can put it back to where it was.
Merry Christmas to all my friends on the Kolb List!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464380#464380
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050573_medium_120.jpg
br> fts!)
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rs.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email addres
s before sending.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
You make a proper pair. :-) Apparently you both had fun! Good for you.
Larry and Karen
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, B Young wrote:
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
More fun than the kids! Thought people could put the name to a face.
Boyd
On Dec 26, 2016 2:04 PM, "Larry Cottrell" wrote:
You make a proper pair. :-) Apparently you both had fun! Good for you.
Larry and Karen
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:33 AM, B Young wrote:
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about it the
more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons via reducing
throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15 years) but you
guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your cake and eat it too?
And maybe we can?
One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you apply
torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the tip, you have
a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron tube will twist
enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip. Typically spades are
placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I notice that most aerobatic
aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint, so what they are doing is modifying
a major piece of hardware to do two jobs, and that's cool, but that's
not our situation. So what if we put some small spades at the tip? To counteract
the twist of the aileron tube throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron counterbalances,
I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades on the front
end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad idea due to the vortex's
/ wash coming out from under the bottom of the wing and curling around
the tip.
What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away from the
wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the spade? (I am
like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the aileron spar, and
aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put it to good use other
than just around carrying dead weight?")
I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt might be
fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes even better.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Reduce the cord, reduce the load.
Ever notice how much aileron deflection is required to fly a Kolb? Very
little.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Richard,
I think that I can safely speak for the rest of the guy's and that is if
you want to do the work, we will be glad to take advantage of it. :-)
As I mentioned earlier, I have cleaned up as many of the drag factors on my
plane that I can, so it flies a bit faster than Homer probably intended. To
counteract the extra force required to use the ailerons, I have gotten in
the habit of using my right knee to help with the turns. This causes a
cramp in my right butt cheek about 40 minutes into the flights. Under the
right circumstances, I could probably do without the cramp.
Thanks,
Larry
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
>
> Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about
> it the more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons
> via reducing throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15
> years) but you guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your
> cake and eat it too? And maybe we can?
>
> One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you
> apply torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the
> tip, you have a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron
> tube will twist enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip.
> Typically spades are placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I
> notice that most aerobatic aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint,
> so what they are doing is modifying a major piece of hardware to do two
> jobs, and that's cool, but that's not our situation. So what if we put some
> small spades at the tip? To counteract the twist of the aileron tube
> throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
>
> Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron
> counterbalances, I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades
> on the front end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad
> idea due to the vortex's / wash coming out from under the bottom of the
> wing and curling around the tip.
>
> What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away
> from the wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the
> spade? (I am like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the
> aileron spar, and aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put
> it to good use other than just around carrying dead weight?")
>
> I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good
> thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly
> what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
>
> Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt
> might be fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes
> even better.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
I personally am too lazy to build new ailerons. You should know that by
now. :-)\
Larry
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:37 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Reduce the cord, reduce the load.
>
> Ever notice how much aileron deflection is required to fly a Kolb? Very
> little.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimswan" <arksey(at)aol.com> |
The Firestar ll that I purchased several years ago had aileron spades that could
be detached from the aileron and that was the case when I looked at the plane....the
owner showed them to me ..they were I thought quite big and I thought
to myself that it made no sense to put such things on the ailerons and put all
that pressure on the hinges...so I left them thereat that time I am not sure
I knew what aileron spades were.....the seller was the 2nd owner of the plane.....later
on I talked with the builder of the plane and he said the spades worked
excellent and that I should have taken them.....after speaking with him
I came away thinking he might know what he was talking about...Note: the brackets
are still on the ailerons and I think they are in the middle....
--------
Jim Swan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464414#464414
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Hopefully, you won't have to build new ailerons for any reason. Me
either. My ailerons work just fine. Don't have the roll rate of an
Extra 300, but it isn't an Extra 300. It is a big old MKIII that hauls
whatever I can cram in it, from here to wherever I point the nose, and
back. If I had wanted a snappy airplane I would have built a Pitts.
Happy New Year everyone!
T-shirt and shorts at hauck's holler. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Wing Tip Spads
I personally am too lazy to build new ailerons. You should know that by
now. :-)\
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Spads |
Richard/All
That's a great idea. Just so happens I saw somewhere (Airventure?) where
someone did something like that on their Kolb. Anyone out there know
anything about it? Did it work at all, cause problems?????
Brian are you listening?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
>
> Been thinking about this for a couple of days and the more I think about
> it the more it sounds like a good idea. IMO my solution to heavy ailerons
> via reducing throw/leverage works quite well, (or it has for the last 15
> years) but you guys certainly do have a point - what if you can have your
> cake and eat it too? And maybe we can?
>
> One of the considerations on any Kolb is the aileron twisting force; you
> apply torque to the inboard end, and by the time that torque gets to the
> tip, you have a lot of pressure accumulating, and typically, the aileron
> tube will twist enough that you are not getting full deflection at the tip.
> Typically spades are placed at the mid point of the aileron, but then I
> notice that most aerobatic aircraft have the aileron pushrod at midpoint,
> so what they are doing is modifying a major piece of hardware to do two
> jobs, and that's cool, but that's not our situation. So what if we put some
> small spades at the tip? To counteract the twist of the aileron tube
> throughout it's length? And reduce stick pressure?
>
> Since most of the (maybe all?) of the heavier Kolbs require aileron
> counterbalances, I wondered if it might be possible to install small spades
> on the front end of the counterbalance rod. I was told that this is a bad
> idea due to the vortex's / wash coming out from under the bottom of the
> wing and curling around the tip.
>
> What if you made stand off's to position the spade a couple inches away
> from the wing tip? Maybe a gap of 3 or 4 inches between the tip and the
> spade? (I am like; "Dude: we already have this sturdy rod coming out of the
> aileron spar, and aligned with the wing chord; is there any way we can put
> it to good use other than just around carrying dead weight?")
>
> I have been trying to learn from what others have done - here is a good
> thread, worth the read it you are interested in spades, but not exactly
> what I am proposing: http://www.biplaneforum.com/showthread.php?t=3920
>
> Since we all have Experimental aircraft, experimenting w/o getting hurt
> might be fun & worth the trouble by making these great little airplanes
> even better.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464410#464410
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Spades. Check it out. This is not the first go on the subject |
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=45270&highlight=spades
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
Hi guys;
I'm starting to run wires from the back of the fuselage to my instrument pod. I
remember seeing examples of hot boxes on the list. Could some of you provide
me with photos of your installation and a source for the box it self.
thanks.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Originally on the FSII, we had the Hot Box under the left side of the passenger
seat.
http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/FSII%20Hot%20Box.html
After the rebuild, the passenger seat was left out and converted to the fuel tank
tray, but the Hot Box went back into the same place.
http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Fuel_tanks_storage.html
Something we are doing on the Firefly we are building is welding 4 tabs to the
underside of the extreme forward fuselage adjacent to where your heels rest on
the fiberglass so that rather than riveting the nose bowl on, it will be just
bolted on using four bolts to the bottom tubes, plus the original tabs on the
two upper side tubes. We will be using R/C airplane quick disconnects in the
harness right at the rear of the nose bowl. That way, if we ever need to get up
behind the panel and play fix the instruments, all we have to do is unscrew
6 bolts and disconnect the wires, and we can do it on the workbench rather than
do it on the airplane.
Might be an option to think about... Trying to lay your rib cage on the side tube
whilst sticking your head up under the panel is a really poor option. Guess
how I know this?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464435#464435
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050576_medium_434.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Miss P'fer Flies |
Sent the afternoon with my MKIII today. Have had so much other stuff going
on I haven't had time to spend on and with my airplane.
She hadn't flown since June. Lots of barn dust, bug and bird crap.
Plus.....mice have been getting in again. ;-( When I opened the door I
smelled urine. Yuck! I looked best I could and did not see any damage. I
don't think they squatted very long based on the number of mouse turds.
I had topped off the fuel tank with 25 gals of 100LL last June. A leaking
drain valve took care of 15 gals. Replaced the drain valve with one that
will not leak. It is made of brass. I have used Briggs and Stratton
plastic valves for years and gotten good service out of them. Never a
problem. When I changed out neoprene fuel lines a few years ago I also
replaced both drain valves. Guess they don't make them like they used to.
After I got the fuel problem fixed, I dropped both float bowls. They were
both dry and clean. There was evidence maybe a drop of two of water has
been in each. After an airplane has sit up for a while the float bowls
should always be checked. Main jets are small on the 912's. Doesn't take
much to upset them. Not checking float bowls was a contributing factor in
Norm Labhart's engine failure.
I have a Hawker Odyssey battery that is 10 or 11 years old. The little two
watt Solar Pulse battery charger/maintainer has kept the battery charged for
7 months. Hit the starter and got a start about the second blade, not
revolution. Ran the engine about 15 minutes, 5 minutes at full power. Mag
check was good. I was satisfied the engine would continue to produce power.
Flew about 15 minutes. Stayed around the patch in case I did have an engine
out. All performed perfect. I made one good landing and put her back in
the hanger. By the time I got on the ground a big dark cloud I had been
watching arrived. Timed it just right without getting wet.
Made me feel a lot better getting back in my airplane and back in the air.
The attached photo was taken 15 March 1992, Miss P'fer's first flight.
Take care,
john h
mkIII - 3,380.0 hours
912ULS - 811.5 hours
Gant International Airport
Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Miss P'fer Flies |
Miss P'fer Flies
John,
I never tire of seeing pictures of Miss P'fer.
That is one good looking airplane.
Peter King
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Miss P'fer Flies
Sent the afternoon with my MKIII today. Have had so much other stuff
going on I haven't had time to spend on and with my airplane.
She hadn't flown since June. Lots of barn dust, bug and bird crap.
Plus.....mice have been getting in again. ;-( When I opened the door I
smelled urine. Yuck! I looked best I could and did not see any damage.
I don't think they squatted very long based on the number of mouse
turds.
I had topped off the fuel tank with 25 gals of 100LL last June. A
leaking drain valve took care of 15 gals. Replaced the drain valve
with one that will not leak. It is made of brass. I have used Briggs
and Stratton plastic valves for years and gotten good service out of
them. Never a problem. When I changed out neoprene fuel lines a few
years ago I also replaced both drain valves. Guess they don't make them
like they used to.
After I got the fuel problem fixed, I dropped both float bowls. They
were both dry and clean. There was evidence maybe a drop of two of
water has been in each. After an airplane has sit up for a while the
float bowls should always be checked. Main jets are small on the 912's.
Doesn't take much to upset them. Not checking float bowls was a
contributing factor in Norm Labhart's engine failure.
I have a Hawker Odyssey battery that is 10 or 11 years old. The
little two watt Solar Pulse battery charger/maintainer has kept the
battery charged for 7 months. Hit the starter and got a start about the
second blade, not revolution. Ran the engine about 15 minutes, 5
minutes at full power. Mag check was good. I was satisfied the engine
would continue to produce power. Flew about 15 minutes. Stayed around
the patch in case I did have an engine out. All performed perfect. I
made one good landing and put her back in the hanger. By the time I got
on the ground a big dark cloud I had been watching arrived. Timed it
just right without getting wet.
Made me feel a lot better getting back in my airplane and back in the
air.
The attached photo was taken 15 March 1992, Miss P'fer's first flight.
Take care,
john h
mkIII - 3,380.0 hours
912ULS - 811.5 hours
Gant International Airport
Titus, Alabama <<...>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Miss P'fer Flies |
Peter King:
Thanks for the compliment. I'll pass it on to Miss P'fer. ;-)
john h
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pcking
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 6:08 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Miss P'fer Flies
John,
I never tire of seeing pictures of Miss P'fer.
That is one good looking airplane.
Peter King
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck <mailto:jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Miss P'fer Flies
Sent the afternoon with my MKIII today. Have had so much other stuff going
on I haven't had time to spend on and with my airplane.
She hadn't flown since June. Lots of barn dust, bug and bird crap.
Plus.....mice have been getting in again. ;-( When I opened the door I
smelled urine. Yuck! I looked best I could and did not see any damage. I
don't think they squatted very long based on the number of mouse turds.
I had topped off the fuel tank with 25 gals of 100LL last June. A leaking
drain valve took care of 15 gals. Replaced the drain valve with one that
will not leak. It is made of brass. I have used Briggs and Stratton
plastic valves for years and gotten good service out of them. Never a
problem. When I changed out neoprene fuel lines a few years ago I also
replaced both drain valves. Guess they don't make them like they used to.
After I got the fuel problem fixed, I dropped both float bowls. They were
both dry and clean. There was evidence maybe a drop of two of water has
been in each. After an airplane has sit up for a while the float bowls
should always be checked. Main jets are small on the 912's. Doesn't take
much to upset them. Not checking float bowls was a contributing factor in
Norm Labhart's engine failure.
I have a Hawker Odyssey battery that is 10 or 11 years old. The little two
watt Solar Pulse battery charger/maintainer has kept the battery charged for
7 months. Hit the starter and got a start about the second blade, not
revolution. Ran the engine about 15 minutes, 5 minutes at full power. Mag
check was good. I was satisfied the engine would continue to produce power.
Flew about 15 minutes. Stayed around the patch in case I did have an engine
out. All performed perfect. I made one good landing and put her back in
the hanger. By the time I got on the ground a big dark cloud I had been
watching arrived. Timed it just right without getting wet.
Made me feel a lot better getting back in my airplane and back in the air.
The attached photo was taken 15 March 1992, Miss P'fer's first flight.
Take care,
john h
mkIII - 3,380.0 hours
912ULS - 811.5 hours
Gant International Airport
Titus, Alabama <<...>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Kulp <undoctor(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Miss P'fer Flies |
John, I put moth balls by all three wheels and never had a problem with
mice boarding my FF. After I flew I parked it exactly same place. FWIW.
Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com
On December 27, 2016 7:07:53 PM "John Hauck" wrote:
> Sent the afternoon with my MKIII today. Have had so much other stuff going
> on I haven't had time to spend on and with my airplane.
>
> She hadn't flown since June. Lots of barn dust, bug and bird crap.
> Plus.....mice have been getting in again. ;-( When I opened the door I
> smelled urine. Yuck! I looked best I could and did not see any damage. I
> don't think they squatted very long based on the number of mouse turds.
>
> I had topped off the fuel tank with 25 gals of 100LL last June. A leaking
> drain valve took care of 15 gals. Replaced the drain valve with one that
> will not leak. It is made of brass. I have used Briggs and Stratton
> plastic valves for years and gotten good service out of them. Never a
> problem. When I changed out neoprene fuel lines a few years ago I also
> replaced both drain valves. Guess they don't make them like they used to.
>
> After I got the fuel problem fixed, I dropped both float bowls. They were
> both dry and clean. There was evidence maybe a drop of two of water has
> been in each. After an airplane has sit up for a while the float bowls
> should always be checked. Main jets are small on the 912's. Doesn't take
> much to upset them. Not checking float bowls was a contributing factor in
> Norm Labhart's engine failure.
>
> I have a Hawker Odyssey battery that is 10 or 11 years old. The little two
> watt Solar Pulse battery charger/maintainer has kept the battery charged for
> 7 months. Hit the starter and got a start about the second blade, not
> revolution. Ran the engine about 15 minutes, 5 minutes at full power. Mag
> check was good. I was satisfied the engine would continue to produce power.
> Flew about 15 minutes. Stayed around the patch in case I did have an engine
> out. All performed perfect. I made one good landing and put her back in
> the hanger. By the time I got on the ground a big dark cloud I had been
> watching arrived. Timed it just right without getting wet.
>
> Made me feel a lot better getting back in my airplane and back in the air.
>
> The attached photo was taken 15 March 1992, Miss P'fer's first flight.
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> mkIII - 3,380.0 hours
> 912ULS - 811.5 hours
> Gant International Airport
> Titus, Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Miss P'fer Flies |
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Kulp
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Miss P'fer Flies
John, I put moth balls by all three wheels and never had a problem with mice
boarding my FF. After I flew I parked it exactly same place. FWIW.
David K:
Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.
john h
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Miss P'fer Flies |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Good on ya! The exhaust manifold gaskets on the FSII had been leaking all sorts
of mung, changed them out this afternoon. Supposed to be clear, calm and in the
50's tomorrow, hoping to get the MKIII and the FSII out and chase each other
around for a while.
Good to do that sort of stuff this time of year!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464446#464446
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Miss P'fer Flies |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Ed & I flew a bit less than an hour today, beautiful weather, landed at a friends
strip with a slight tailwind, had to do my first go-around in years. Couldn't
decide if there was enough runway remaining to get down and get stopped, but
there was plenty enuf runway to go around, decided that discretion was the better
part of the old bold pilot equation...
After I got down and parked, decided that staying humble and admitting that you
blew the 1st approach is actually not a bad thing at all, especially it it kept
ya from busting yer butt. Or raising your main gear up to hip level. (Don't
ask) And besides, us old farts are not as quick as we used to be, so it's OK
if we have to compensate or recalibrate. It's all good.
Supposed to rain & blow for the next several days, so Happy New Year guys.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464460#464460
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Craddock <craddojc(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Questions about Kolbs... |
Hi everyone,
I have been shopping for a good used UL - I am looking for a legal weight U
L that is easy to trailer and assemble in the field.=C2-
I used to fly the old Teratorn Tierra, and it never was practical to traile
r and assemble in the field. =C2-The Kolb Ultrastar and Firefly seem to f
it the bill, but I was really interested in what Kolb owners think - I had
some pretty basic questions about these:
Is the Ultrastar or Firefly with a 447 really under 254 lbs dry weight? =C2
-
Do they fly well? does the landing gear hold up for off-field operation?
Has anyone flown both Ultrastar and Firefly to compare how they handle?
Do you like your Kolb? =C2-Any bad things about owning one?
What is the actual dry weight of a Firestar I or II with a 447 or 503? =C2
-Could it ever be 103 legal?
Thanks in advance for this info, or for any advice you may have...
Jeff Craddock
Lakewood, CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Miss P'fer Flies |
| From: | "woody" <n3022.176(at)gmail.com> |
It seems that the tail tube on my FSII attracts mice at my country hanger. I have
collected one in the shop-vac and another with a sticky pad under the back
seat. The first one left a nice 5" hole chewed into my cabin cover. That's when
I knew something was amiss. I don't like the idea of mouse urine on my rudder
and elevator cables. I'll get some mothballs over there soon, couldn't hurt.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464479#464479
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/20160916_160810_184.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Questions about Kolbs... |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Me & my bud are in the process of rebuilding an original 1985 Firestar into a Firefly,
so cannot give you any answers at the moment. Will be posting the results
of our experiment over the next few months. Our goal is to make it a gen-u-wine
Part 103 U/L.
If necessary, we are looking at several Powered Paraglider engines, all of which
look promising should the Rotax 447 turn out to be too heavy.
Sorry for the delay, but that's the best we can do.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464501#464501
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> |
| Subject: | Questions about Kolbs... |
For true Part 103 status the Firefly can meet the requirements with a
447 IF built very carefully. 40 HP is plenty for this little plane.
The Hirth 2702 is almost and exact replacement for the now out of
production Rotax 447.
However the Hirth F-23 is about 20 pounds lighter and produces 50 HP! If
I were to build another new Firefly I think the F-23 would be my choice.
Especially if trying for the 254 pound weight limit. Rumor has it that
no one is running around weighing Ultra-lights checking for compliance.
I have no experience with an Ultrastar, someone else will have to answer
that one.
I have discovered a large flaw in my Firefly but it is not
Kolb=99s fault. There is WAY too little time on the tach!
Info on my FR here: Serenity
<http://harnerfarm.net/serenity/serenity.html>
Questions always welcome.
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Craddock
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:09 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Questions about Kolbs...
Hi everyone,
I have been shopping for a good used UL - I am looking for a legal
weight UL that is easy to trailer and assemble in the field.
I used to fly the old Teratorn Tierra, and it never was practical to
trailer and assemble in the field. The Kolb Ultrastar and Firefly seem
to fit the bill, but I was really interested in what Kolb owners think -
I had some pretty basic questions about these:
Is the Ultrastar or Firefly with a 447 really under 254 lbs dry weight?
Do they fly well? does the landing gear hold up for off-field operation?
Has anyone flown both Ultrastar and Firefly to compare how they handle?
Do you like your Kolb? Any bad things about owning one?
What is the actual dry weight of a Firestar I or II with a 447 or 503?
Could it ever be 103 legal?
Thanks in advance for this info, or for any advice you may have...
Jeff Craddock
Lakewood, CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Questions about Kolbs... |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Ah! North Dakota, palm trees, gentle breezes...That what you are
dreaming of Stuart?? :-)
The Firefly built by Bryan does not get the complete Poly fiber
finishing process as I recall? The 4 inch wheels certainly look lost..
Both of my builds ran near 30+ lbs over ..Full enclosure, two full
coats of Poly brush and poly spray...and I kept adding color till I was
satisfied..:-) I also used larger rims and tires and mountain bike
mechanical brakes.. I also run three blade IVO props which add some
extra wt...Two blade Tenn prop is necessary to meet pt 103.
I seem to recall that the early Firefly's used .028 Cro Molly tubing.
and that .035 was made standard across the line when the Factory moved
to Ky?
No doubt, Jack Hart is the guru when it comes to building a anorexic
Firefly...:-) Herb
On 12/30/2016 07:10 PM, Stuart Harner wrote:
>
> For true Part 103 status the Firefly can meet the requirements with a
> 447 IF built very carefully. 40 HP is plenty for this little plane.
>
> The Hirth 2702 is almost and exact replacement for the now out of
> production Rotax 447.
>
> However the Hirth F-23 is about 20 pounds lighter and produces 50 HP!
> If I were to build another new Firefly I think the F-23 would be my
> choice. Especially if trying for the 254 pound weight limit. Rumor has
> it that no one is running around weighing Ultra-lights checking for
> compliance.
>
> I have no experience with an Ultrastar, someone else will have to
> answer that one.
>
> I have discovered a large flaw in my Firefly but it is not Kolbs
> fault. There is WAY too little time on the tach!
>
> Info on my FR here: Serenity
> <http://harnerfarm.net/serenity/serenity.html>
>
> Questions always welcome.
>
> Stuart
>
> *From:*owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Craddock
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:09 PM
> *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Questions about Kolbs...
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have been shopping for a good used UL - I am looking for a legal
> weight UL that is easy to trailer and assemble in the field.
>
> I used to fly the old Teratorn Tierra, and it never was practical to
> trailer and assemble in the field. The Kolb Ultrastar and Firefly
> seem to fit the bill, but I was really interested in what Kolb owners
> think - I had some pretty basic questions about these:
>
> Is the Ultrastar or Firefly with a 447 really under 254 lbs dry
> weight?
>
> Do they fly well? does the landing gear hold up for off-field
> operation?
>
> Has anyone flown both Ultrastar and Firefly to compare how they
> handle?
>
> Do you like your Kolb? Any bad things about owning one?
>
> What is the actual dry weight of a Firestar I or II with a 447 or
> 503? Could it ever be 103 legal?
>
> Thanks in advance for this info, or for any advice you may have...
>
> Jeff Craddock
>
>
> Lakewood, CO.
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what
does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin
and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Questions about Kolbs... |
I've flown and trailered both a FireFly and a FireStar fairly extensively,
so have a direct comparison. They both fly really well, and fold/unfold
easily.
I trailered and flew the FireFly from 48 airfields in 14 states in 9
months. The story is at http://jgwalkaboutusa.blogspot.com.au/
Then trailered and flew the FireStar from about 100 airfields over three
summers. The stories at
http://jgflyingroadtrip2013.blogspot.com.au/
http://jgflyingroadtrip2014.blogspot.com.au/
http://jgflyingroadtrip2015.blogspot.com.au/
These were wonderful adventures, only made possible by the easy
folding/trailering features of the Kolbs. I don't know why we don't hear
more about other Kolb owners really travelling around with their aircraft.
The Kolbs are so easy to fold/unfold and load into a trailer. Took me 25
minutes to fold and load, and same to unfold and ready to fly, always
without any help. Did it three times from three different airfields on some
days. Much better than travelling around in a larger fixed wing aircraft,
cause can travel long distance without the risk of being caught by weather,
and when arrived at an airfield have wheels and a dry bed for the night.
And doesn't cost much to travel that way, just fuel cost. There are so many
fantastic places to fly, as you will see by the photos in the blogs.
There's no way to really make the FireFly 103 legal with a 447. I only know
of one, and that was using the additions allowed with floats and stretching
the rule for ballistic chute allowance, and having no pod and absolutely
minimum everything....
I much preferred the FireStar for an aircraft to fly and land, especially
from rough strips. The FireFly, with it's short wings, is like a little
sports car, great sporty feel, but doesn't hold off and land as slow as the
FireStar. Of course the FireStar doesn't come near the weight for 103, with
a 503 weighs probably closer to 340lbs. And it sure is worth having the
dual ignition 503 if you're flying 'bush'. As long as it wasn't going to be
103 compliant anyhow, I added a 12 gal fuel tank to get some reasonable
range. Also Carlisle turf tires make landings on rough or soft ground much
easier on the landing gear. Those mods made it into a really useful and
capable aircraft for exploring the country, as you will see.
I resent the 254 lb limit of the 103 rule, cause all it does is allow a
very marginal flying machine, just ideal for getting up in the air high
enough to get hurt..... The 95.10 ultralight category in Australia allows a
generous empty weight of 200kg (440 lbs), which would easily include the
FireStar, and makes for a really substantial aircraft. Of course we need a
Light Sport license to fly it, but that's also a very sensible requirement
for safety.
So as far I was concerned, in my travels with the FireStar without numbers,
"If it looks like an ultralight, sounds like an ultralight, and flies like
an ultralight, so let it be an ultralight". I flew from about 150 airfields
and never was really challenged. One sour old bugger in N Dakota asked a
lot of doubting questions and took lots of photos, then when he went home
for lunch and probably to check on the internet, I loaded up and
disappeared.... Whenever I rolled into an airfield that was occupied, I
approached and asked if it was OK to fly my 'ultralight' from there. The
answers were nearly always welcoming, "Hey that's cool what you're doin',
if you need anything just come and ask...." Only twice was I denied access,
once at a private glider strip near Durango with no reason specified, and
at Sturgis ND when the big motorcycle rally was on, and he was very
apologetic, saying that there were so many fast aircraft ferrying
passengers in for the rally that it was too congested for a slow
ultralight, and he was correct, I didn't want to fly in that traffic
anyhow. And I certainly wasn't the only non compliant 'ultralight' flying
in the US, lots of them.... Just carefully follow the air rules and keep
out of the way, and don't cause an incident that would trigger an
investigation.....
I mostly hunted out the quietest unoccupied airfields that I could find.
Before I started out I spotted them on a Google Map like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?msa=0&mid=1M3r-k35k5fYqbOwxanex3pa2m1c&ll=35.50755579512139%2C-105.40188799999999&z=4
Those quiet airfields also made for ideal camping spots, with basic
facilities, and peaceful and safe. Vandals seem to avoid airfields.
So, by all means get a Kolb and a trailer and have an adventure!
Cheers,
JG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> |
| Subject: | Save weight with Oratex fabric |
Hello Kolbsters,
If you need/want to save weight on you project, you should consider using Oratex
fabric. It is not the cheapest way to go, but it is pre-painted, non toxic and
available in two weights. Both weights are lighter than normal painted fabric.
All the winning planes in the open category at the Valdez Fly In, are now
using Oratex to drop weight.
Enjoy,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Ak
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airport Cafe's Now Listed in ACC's |
| From: | "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com> |
I have just added over 50 airport cafs (and still growing) to current listings
in the Airport Courtesy Cars website and app (just in case your courtesy car isnt
available when you arrive!) These listings are highlighted in red so you can
easily find them. If you have any additions or corrections, please email them
directly to me at airportcars101(at)gmail.com. Thanks and Happy New Year! Glenn
PS, Submit your ramp fee's experience also for inclusion in the website/app!
--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, "Airport Courtesy Cars" Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464529#464529
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
What gage wire is correct to connect mags to mag switches? And am I correct that
the switches connect to ground?
Thanks
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Bearden" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Questions about Kolbs |
> Is the Ultrastar or Firefly with a 447 really under 254 lbs dry weight?
I recall weighing my Firestar I, it came in at ~180 lbs with no engine or
prop. Or instruments.
> Could it ever be 103 legal?
I can't see any way, unless you come up with a super light engine of some
sort. Maybe something like the MZ201 (69 lbs) incl. reduction, electric
starter, exhaust. But you'd hafta add the prop, battery, etc. I've seen em
fly just fine on the Rotax 377, but that's 85 lbs. My 503 is right at 100
lbs I believe.
I can't comment on the rest of your questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions about Kolbs |
Sorry to butt in on an ultralight discussion.... you Ultrastar and Firefly guys
NEED to check out the Polini and Simonini engine websites. There are many many
many pounds of weight to be saved by using the later engines from the paramotor
community. There is a very good chance you will have more power, LESS WEIGHT
and higher reliability by using one of these newer engines. ANYONE trying to
meet Part 103 needs to be familiar with these engines.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/31/16, George Bearden wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Questions about Kolbs
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, December 31, 2016, 2:10 PM
"George Bearden"
> Is the Ultrastar or Firefly with a 447 really under 254
lbs dry weight?
I recall weighing my Firestar I, it came in at ~180 lbs with
no engine or
prop. Or instruments.
> Could it ever be 103 legal?
I can't see any way, unless you come up with a super light
engine of some
sort. Maybe something like the MZ201 (69 lbs) incl.
reduction, electric
starter, exhaust. But you'd hafta add the prop, battery,
etc. I've seen em
fly just fine on the Rotax 377, but that's 85 lbs. My 503 is
right at 100
lbs I believe.
I can't comment on the rest of your questions.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
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www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
www.mypilotstore.com
www.mrrace.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Craddock <craddojc(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions about Kolbs |
George,Thanks for the info, its actually a lighter number than I expected.
=C2-Maybe with a Simonini and Oratex covering it would make the 254 limit
...
Does anyone know the approximate weight of the Firestar I fabric? =C2-Jef
f
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire for mags |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Yes, they do connect to ground. If you plan to use a radio, then you need to use
a shielded cable, the cheapest and sufficient is microphone cable, it is two
insulated wires plus a ground wire inside a metal foil sheath inside a plastic
sheath. If you have dual mags, you can use one insulated wire for one mag and
the other insulated wire for the 2nd mag.
If you have an older engine with one mag, then you use one insulated wire for the
mag and the other insulated wire for the tach.
The basis for this is that the ignition pulses are AC, and they will mess up your
radio, so you ground one end of that wire/sheath to either the engine or the
frame, but not both ends. Only one end gets grounded. I am not knowledgeable
enough to explain it, but you don't ground both ends, only one end.
Now you have 2 insulated wires running through the grounded sheath. If both of
those wire go to your two coils, then you ground those two wires to your two
kill switches and then to ground. If you have an older type engine with only
one ignition system, then you use one of the wires to ground your ignition coil
- kill switch, and use the other one for the tach.
TL,DR - wires that carry pulsing AC will mess with your radio, and you want them
inside shielded cable, of which one end is grounded.
If you are planning to use a radio, you have to use shielded cable, one end of
which has to be grounded, but not both ends. As long as you observe this protocol,
you can make your radio work.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464598#464598
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Questions about Kolbs |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Approximate weight... well ... today I finished welding the gear leg brackets,
hopefully this week we will be able to weigh the fuselage cage/boom/tail/wings
and get an idea of what the empty weight is.
Or not. The WX forcast is crappy.
But as soon as we do, we will let you know.
Patience, Grasshopper....
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464599#464599
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire for mags |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
For some reason, I never got the original poster's message. But for
wiring magnetos ('conventional' aircraft mags):
Suspend normal thought about shields when looking at magnetos.
The shield helps minimize radiated 'noise' (RF energy) from the mag
while it's operating, and is grounded only on the mag itself while
operating. The shield is the return path to short out the mag when the
mag switch is 'off' (note the quotes).
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/MagnetoSwitchOptions.pdf
(Note that the .pdf shows many more 'bells&whistles' than are needed to
simply control a magneto; try to mentally strip away all the extra
functions & just look at the wiring to the mags.)
Center conductor to the points in the mag (P lead terminal), shield
grounded to the mag case.
At the other end, center conductor to one terminal of your mag switch,
and the shield to the other terminal. When the switch is *closed*
(continuity across the terminals), the mag is *off*. When the switch is
*open* (off, in normal terminology), the mag is *on*. The other end of
the shield should not be connected to the airframe; only to the 2nd
terminal of your mag switch.
Wire gauge is non-critical; anything 22awg or bigger for center
conductor is fine (smaller is just too mechanically fragile).
Using a 'spare' wire that's in the same sheath as the P lead might work
fine for something like a tach signal. Or it might not. If something's
not working normally, how do you troubleshoot?
*Charlie *
On 1/1/2017 10:43 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Yes, they do connect to ground. If you plan to use a radio, then you need to
use a shielded cable, the cheapest and sufficient is microphone cable, it is two
insulated wires plus a ground wire inside a metal foil sheath inside a plastic
sheath. If you have dual mags, you can use one insulated wire for one mag
and the other insulated wire for the 2nd mag.
> If you have an older engine with one mag, then you use one insulated wire for
the mag and the other insulated wire for the tach.
> The basis for this is that the ignition pulses are AC, and they will mess up
your radio, so you ground one end of that wire/sheath to either the engine or
the frame, but not both ends. Only one end gets grounded. I am not knowledgeable
enough to explain it, but you don't ground both ends, only one end.
> Now you have 2 insulated wires running through the grounded sheath. If both of
those wire go to your two coils, then you ground those two wires to your two
kill switches and then to ground. If you have an older type engine with only
one ignition system, then you use one of the wires to ground your ignition coil
- kill switch, and use the other one for the tach.
> TL,DR - wires that carry pulsing AC will mess with your radio, and you want them
inside shielded cable, of which one end is grounded.
> If you are planning to use a radio, you have to use shielded cable, one end of
which has to be grounded, but not both ends. As long as you observe this protocol,
you can make your radio work.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
> And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire for mags |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Good point, my bad. I was only thinking "Rotax." And having only ever wired up
2-cycle Rotax engines, some of what I said might not be right for the 912/etc
versions. Or an HKS. Sorry.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464616#464616
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Baber <baberdk(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wire for mags |
I agree with the wiring description and it is electrically correct. But
since we have the center conductor attached to the mag, and the mag is
producing the electrical interference, wouldn't it be safer to connect the
shield at the switch end so the shield on the cable follows the plane
ground instead of the mag ground?
Respectfully,
Dennis Baber
(305) 814-7218
baberdk(at)gmail.com
Stay Curious
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New owner of a FSII proect and Hello |
| From: | "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com> |
Hi all,
I thought it was time to introduce my self to the group. I'm in central Ohio and
a retired senor mechanical designer and maintenance suppervisor in the chemical
industry. I recently purchased the project FS II that Mr. Pike had for sale.
It is currently in storage waiting for me to finishing painting an old Model
A project that was completed this summer.
After calling and speaking with an inspector with the FSDO in Columbus, he thinks
we can put this project back in the air as an E-AB. I e-mailed him the pics
of the parts and pieces and he thinks there is still more than 51% left to do.
I am interested in all comments and suggestions regarding upgrades to make it a
better flying plane.
Hopefully in the near future we will get started on this and see you all in the
air. Wish me luck cause my experience is in old cars not old planes.
--------
Jim P
WAR EAGLE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464665#464665
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New owner of a FSII proect and Hello |
My first Kolb kit was a FS2 w/ 503.Put 750 hrs on it in 7 yrs. You will love it.
Welcome to Kolb ownership from 4 mk3 owners in NE Ohio, members of The North
Coast Lite Flyers ! G.Aman , MK3C Jabiru,1010hrs
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 3:41 PM, japowell wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> I thought it was time to introduce my self to the group. I'm in central Ohio
and a retired senor mechanical designer and maintenance suppervisor in the chemical
industry. I recently purchased the project FS II that Mr. Pike had for
sale. It is currently in storage waiting for me to finishing painting an old
Model A project that was completed this summer.
>
> After calling and speaking with an inspector with the FSDO in Columbus, he thinks
we can put this project back in the air as an E-AB. I e-mailed him the pics
of the parts and pieces and he thinks there is still more than 51% left to
do.
>
> I am interested in all comments and suggestions regarding upgrades to make it
a better flying plane.
>
> Hopefully in the near future we will get started on this and see you all in the
air. Wish me luck cause my experience is in old cars not old planes.
>
> --------
> Jim P
> WAR EAGLE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464665#464665
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New owner of a FSII proect and Hello |
Congratulations!
If your experience level at present is not aviation-heavy, then simply put the
airplane back together in the exact original configuration, with the minimum number
of changes.
If you have an early FS kit, then make sure the aileron balance weight modification
has been done. This is a mandatory upgrade for safety that must be done.
Choose and install any changes or modifications (if any) based on how and where
you fly. Often times, not making any changes is the best idea. Some of the guys
here will be roaring with laughter when they hear smart-aleck me saying that!
If you will be flying off rough surfaces, mud, sand, etc then larger tires may
be in your future. But in the beginning you should fly from smooth grass anyway
(regardless of the tire size) because it is an easier learning curve.
If you will be flying in cold weather then upgrading to the "full enclosure" will
of course likely be worthwhile.
If you will be flying from paved or smooth dirt airports, then brakes may be worthwhile.
Streamlined wing struts will reduce drag a little, which means the airplane is
a little bit faster or more fuel-efficient. It would enable you to fly at a lower
throttle setting for any given speed.
Again depending on where you fly, a proper "aircraft style" locking/swiveling tailwheel
assembly will be useful for ground handling. If you are flying from a
large dirt lot without narrow taxiways this is not needed. If you need to maneuver
the airplane in and out of ramp tiedowns, hangars, run-up areas, etc. then
the tailwheel may be worthwhile.
Re-designing, modifying, upgrading other design features of the aircraft requires
some amount of experience and knowledge. Even though I have caused plenty of
controversy here on this board talking about modifications I want to make, I
have to recommend you do not do any more than is necessary for a specific valid
purpose. I've been at this for a while, and I'm lucky to have extensive engineering
and fabrication support from friends and business associates.
There are one or two attractive 4-stroke engine upgrades that are available for
the Kolb. I am doing one of them on my FS2 project, and I can tell you for absolute
certain that it is far more work than you ever think it is in the beginning.
I have a uniquely valid reason for doing it (reliability flying in a major
city environment from a towered airport), but unless you have a similar reason
then just use one of the engines that is normally associated with the FS2....
Rotax 503 or 50-55HP Hirth. This discussion board has numerous members with
many years of experience using these engines. Unless you are flying over downtown
Cleveland, don't get involved in a big engine change project for now.
I cannot legitimately address anything about making it a "better flying airplane"
because I have not flown mine yet. But the consensus is that the Kolb is one
of the best flying UL/LSA style aircraft already. There may be nothing within
any reason that would make a significant improvement to the flight handling.
Disabuse yourself of the idea of a Kolb flying like a Pitts, or an RV, or a Jungmeister.
Chances are that it will never have that balance or response characteristics.
Compared to other UL style ("flying lawn chair") airplanes the Kolb
looks to me like it will be a Porsche by comparison. But once again I have no
flight time in mine yet, and there are folks here on this board with hundreds
and even thousands of hours in Kolbs.
The one and only one thing I would offer as a "prediction" for improving flight
handling is that you will probably find that adding the VG's to the wings and
tails will make a reasonable improvement. This subject has caused a whole lot
of controversy in the Kolb world (long before I joined this board), but looking
at the wing and tail airfoils it seems really obvious that this is airplane
a good candidate for VG's.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/3/17, japowell wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: New owner of a FSII proect and Hello
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 3, 2017, 12:41 PM
"japowell"
Hi all,
I thought it was time to introduce my self to the
group. I'm in central Ohio and a retired senor
mechanical designer and maintenance suppervisor in the
chemical industry. I recently purchased the project FS II
that Mr. Pike had for sale. It is currently in storage
waiting for me to finishing painting an old Model A project
that was completed this summer.
After calling and speaking with an inspector with the FSDO
in Columbus, he thinks we can put this project back in the
air as an E-AB. I e-mailed him the pics of the parts
and pieces and he thinks there is still more than 51% left
to do.
I am interested in all comments and suggestions regarding
upgrades to make it a better flying plane.
Hopefully in the near future we will get started on this and
see you all in the air. Wish me luck cause my
experience is in old cars not old planes.
--------
Jim P
WAR EAGLE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464665#464665
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Stuart <tcstuart(at)roadrunner.com> |
| Subject: | Sort of Kolb related |
> Indirectly Kolb related. About 15 years ago I bought a Mark III Xtra kit. I
only completed about half the build and sold the kit a few years ago. I modified
my barn to have a 31 clear span for the Kolbs 30 ft wingspan. Today I made
a deposit on a Zigolo MG12 from Chip Erwin, but it has a wingspan of 36'-7"
with full span ailerons . I have noticed that some sailplanes have removable
wingtips. I am trying to devise a way to have 4 detachable wing ends for this
plane and clip the ailerons . Does anyone have a way to do this? I was thinking
female tubes in the wing (using the wing spar tubes) and male tubes fixed
in the winglet. Since ribs are riveted into the spar just like the Kolb kits,
the rivets would protrude inside and not let a closely mated tube slide inside.
Possibly use square tubes to avoid the rivets?
>
> I can take one wing off in a couple of minutes and get it into my hangar with
their quick attach option, but it may be tricky doing it by myself. If you have
to go to too much trouble, you will probably fly less. I would like to go
into my backyard, open up the hangar door, unhook the charger, roll the plane
out, attach the winglets and fly off my 600 foot grass strip.
>
> http://aeromarine-lsa.com/zigolo-mg/
>
> I am planning to go with the electric powerplant. They call this plane a motofloater.
I plan to chase thermals and use the electric motor to find them and
cut the power. No worry about restarting the electric motor. Very interesting
concept. If your are interested, there are a lot of videos to view.
>
> Thought I would pick the collective brains of the Kolb people. I apologize for
being a bit off pure Kolb talk.
>
> Clay Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "brubakermal(at)yahoo.com" <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sort of Kolb related |
Im hooking up s 912 on=C2- a m2 pusher .im looking for hoses and fuel lin
es customer wants ALL BLUE lines and heat shield. Anyone with some extra or
a good supplier please contact me . Ill pay for what you have.=C2- =0A
=0ASent from Yahoo Mail on Android=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Sort of Kolb related |
Clay
Would it be possible to fit your plane in diagonally? If so build a dolly t
o take it in and out.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Stuart" <tcstuart(at)roadrunner.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 7:07:22 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Sort of Kolb related
> Indirectly Kolb related. About 15 years ago I bought a Mark III Xtra kit.
I only completed about half the build and sold the kit a few years ago. I
modified my barn to have a 31=99 clear span for the Kolb=99s 30
ft wingspan. Today I made a deposit on a Zigolo MG12 from Chip Erwin, but
it has a wingspan of 36'-7" with full span ailerons . I have noticed that s
ome sailplanes have removable wingtips. I am trying to devise a way to have
4=99 detachable wing ends for this plane and clip the ailerons . Doe
s anyone have a way to do this? I was thinking female tubes in the wing (us
ing the wing spar tubes) and male tubes fixed in the =9Cwinglet
=9D. Since ribs are riveted into the spar just like the Kolb kits, the rive
ts would protrude inside and not let a closely mated tube slide inside. Pos
sibly use square tubes to avoid the rivets?
>
> I can take one wing off in a couple of minutes and get it into my hangar
with their quick attach option, but it may be tricky doing it by myself. If
you have to go to too much trouble, you will probably fly less. I would li
ke to go into my backyard, open up the hangar door, unhook the charger, rol
l the plane out, attach the =9Cwinglets=9D and fly off my 600 f
oot grass strip.
>
> http://aeromarine-lsa.com/zigolo-mg/
>
> I am planning to go with the electric powerplant. They call this plane a
motofloater. I plan to chase thermals and use the electric motor to find th
em and cut the power. No worry about restarting the electric motor. Very in
teresting concept. If your are interested, there are a lot of videos to vie
w.
>
> Thought I would pick the collective brains of the Kolb people. I apologiz
e for being a bit off pure Kolb talk.
>
> Clay Stuart
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wire for mags |
On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Denny Baber wrote:
> I agree with the wiring description and it is electrically correct. But
> since we have the center conductor attached to the mag, and the mag is
> producing the electrical interference, wouldn't it be safer to connect the
> shield at the switch end so the shield on the cable follows the plane
> ground instead of the mag ground?
>
>
> Respectfully,
> Dennis Baber
> (305) 814-7218
> baberdk(at)gmail.com
>
> Stay Curious
>
Hi Dennis,
Sorry to take so long to reply; for some reason this entire thread ended up
in my gmail spam folder.
The P-lead shield should *always* be connected to the case of the mag. The
mag is the source of the noise, so you're grounding the shield at the
ground reference of the noise source. But for me, an even more important
point is that the shield is how you turn the mag 'off'; it supplies the
ground path to short out the coil of the mag when you turn the mag off. If
it has to find its ground path through the airframe back to the mag, what
happens if a tech is doing maintenance around the engine and removes the
battery negative lead(s)? Depending on how the ground wires are arranged
from airframe to battery and from engine to battery, it can leave the mags
'hot' without the tech realizing it (he hasn't touched the mags or mag
switches). That can be deadly.
There's also some chance that if you route the shield's ground path through
the airframe, you may inject the noise into the ground path of other
electronics in the a/c, similar to what happens when the strobes'
"whoop...whoop" sound is heard in the intercom.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
I suppose all of us have fussed over getting the gear aligned as accurately as
possible when drilling the holes for the gear legs/axle fittings. If you have
ever flown a tail dragger that had the gear aligned wrong, you know what a spooky,
unpredictable thing that is.
The first picture is of the axle fittings off the wrecked Firestar from which we
sourced for our Firefly project. I was not there when this abomination took
place, but I suspect that it was not a smiley-face day! We really did not want
to go anywhere in this direction!
When we did the new gear for our Firefly project we did our best to get it as perfect
as possible, but still ended up with the left gear toed-in about 3 degrees.
Urrgh... Here is the fix: Used a Dremel tool with a tapered stone to elongate
the 1/4" hole through the gear leg/axle fitting so that the fitting could
be rotated backwards to toe it out a bit. Once the hole was elongated enough,
chucked the fitting in the vise and used the pictured all-thread sticking out
on one side with a weight on it to keep the washers rotated to the new desired
position on the axle fitting.
Our goal was to weld two 1/4" AN960 washers in place to hold the retaining bolt
in the desired position through the axle fitting.
It worked. After welding the washers in place, ran the 1/4" drill bit through the
whole assembly one time with the gear leg in place just to clean up the inevitable
minor misalignment's and now both axle fittings are exactly at the desired
angle. Now anytime we might have to disassemble anything for any reason,
it will go back together at exactly the correct angle.
Hope this will be useful for someone else down the road.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464920#464920
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050612_medium_656.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050609_medium_599.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050610_medium_704.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
| From: | "tarnold" <tarnoldza(at)gmail.com> |
Hi,
In order to give an unobstructed view for photography, I would like to do some
flights with the doors removed.
Are there any restrictions or suggestions etc?
Thanks
Trevor
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464924#464924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
Have you considered just cutting a small window in your existing lexan door
that you can open or close when you need it? Best of both worlds. If you do
decide to do it make sure that the plane is in flying position when you
mark it for cutting.
Larry
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 8:45 PM, tarnold wrote:
>
> Hi,
> In order to give an unobstructed view for photography, I would like to do
> some flights with the doors removed.
> Are there any restrictions or suggestions etc?
> Thanks
> Trevor
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464924#464924
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
Trevor/Kolbers:
I have lost many great photos because I have always shot through Lexan.
Should have fabricated a camera window on my MKIII from the get go.
I have flown a MKIIIc with the right door off to allow Howard Levy, RIP, to
shoot air to air at Sun and Fun many years ago, because he refused to work
through Lexan. Was a miserable ride with one door off. Probably twice as
miserable with both.
There are a lot of ways to accomplish a camera door. Hopefully, someone who
has done this will jump in and give you a little help.
Don't recommend flying the MKIII without doors.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of tarnold
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 9:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra
Hi,
In order to give an unobstructed view for photography, I would like to do
some flights with the doors removed.
Are there any restrictions or suggestions etc?
Thanks
Trevor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
There are a lot of ways to accomplish a camera door. Hopefully, someone who
has done this will jump in and give you a little help.
I copied Mike Marker's photo window that he had on the Ran's. Basically it
is a 10 inch window cut out of which ever side that you prefer for
pictures. I riveted a equal length of light alum hinge stock to the bottom.
I made a light alum latch at the top corner. I cut about 2 inch strip to
frame the window on the outside and using a 2x4 with a kerf slot cut into
it the depth that I wanted to bend it to a 25 or so degree angle. I then
cut the flat part up to the bend, which allowed me to bend it to fit around
the window on the outside of the window. ( or you can do it with two
pieces if you want. ) This deflects the wind out of the cabin. This would
fit in front and over the top of the window, and keeps most of the outside
air out of the cabin.
When you want to take a picture, merely lean over a bit, unlatch the window
and swing it down by your side. The curvature of the wind screen will keep
the window bent under pressure when it is secured up, and closed.
As I mentioned earlier you want to make sure that the tail is lifted to
flying position when you lay out the window.
Pictures if you want?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
My friend Marc Webster makes the highest quality aircraft-specific camera mounts for aircraft with wing struts. If you are looking into taking photographs, check www.cloudbaseengineering.com , you will NOT be disappointed with his products!
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/9/17, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Monday, January 9, 2017, 10:43 PM
There are a lot of ways to
accomplish a camera door. Hopefully, someone who
has done this will jump in and
give you a little help.
I copied
Mike Marker's photo window that he had on the Ran's.
Basically it is a 10 inch window cut out of which ever side
that you prefer for pictures. I riveted a equal length of
light alum hinge stock to the bottom. I made a light alum
latch at the top corner. I cut about 2 inch strip to frame
the window on the outside and using a 2x4 with a kerf slot
cut into it the depth that I wanted to bend it to a 25 or so
degree angle. I then cut the flat part up to the bend, which
allowed me to bend it to fit around the window on the
outside of the window. ( or you can do it with two pieces
if you want. ) This deflects the wind out of the cabin. This
would fit in front and over the top of the window, and keeps
most of the outside air out of the
cabin.
When you
want to take a picture, merely lean over a bit, unlatch the
window and swing it down by your side. The curvature of the
wind screen will keep the window bent under pressure when it
is secured up, and closed.
As I
mentioned earlier you want to make sure that the tail is
lifted to flying position when you lay out the
window.
Pictures
if you want?Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Make up a 2nd door that comes back about to around your thighs. That is enough to cause the wind to flow past the cockpit rather than through it. Check out the top left picture here: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/pg2.htm
I have 2 sets of doors; one for summer, and another for winter. The summer set
comes back to about even with the thighs, and the winter set closes the cockpit
up completely. The shorty door keeps the wind from being obnoxious but still
allows for taking pictures.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464937#464937
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Hudson <colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
Here's what I did that works fantastic. I made myself a set of Summer
doors. I flew my M3-Xtra with the doors off and got a face full of wind.
Didn't care for that but wanted to be able to fly doors open. I removed my
door, put it on a piece of plywood and made a simple jig out of it. I then
made a duplicate door only added a simple tube down the middle. (See
attached photo) I then attached lexan on the front half only. That is
just enough to deflect the air around you but leave all the space beside
you exposed to the outside. Living here in Texas it's a big help on
stopping the greenhouse effect that heats the cabin in the Summer. Now on
the hottest days I'm nice and comfortable. I also removed the Lexan panels
behind me on the rear deck as Kolb recommends doing with doors off to
reduce the pressure on them.
Scott Hudson
On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 12:59 AM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
> My friend Marc Webster makes the highest quality aircraft-specific camera
> mounts for aircraft with wing struts. If you are looking into taking
> photographs, check www.cloudbaseengineering.com , you will NOT be
> disappointed with his products!
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 1/9/17, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra
> To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"
> Date: Monday, January 9, 2017, 10:43 PM
>
>
> There are a lot of ways to
> accomplish a camera door. Hopefully, someone who
> has done this will jump in and
> give you a little help.
>
> I copied
> Mike Marker's photo window that he had on the Ran's.
> Basically it is a 10 inch window cut out of which ever side
> that you prefer for pictures. I riveted a equal length of
> light alum hinge stock to the bottom. I made a light alum
> latch at the top corner. I cut about 2 inch strip to frame
> the window on the outside and using a 2x4 with a kerf slot
> cut into it the depth that I wanted to bend it to a 25 or so
> degree angle. I then cut the flat part up to the bend, which
> allowed me to bend it to fit around the window on the
> outside of the window. ( or you can do it with two pieces
> if you want. ) This deflects the wind out of the cabin. This
> would fit in front and over the top of the window, and keeps
> most of the outside air out of the
> cabin.
> When you
> want to take a picture, merely lean over a bit, unlatch the
> window and swing it down by your side. The curvature of the
> wind screen will keep the window bent under pressure when it
> is secured up, and closed.
> As I
> mentioned earlier you want to make sure that the tail is
> lifted to flying position when you lay out the
> window.
> Pictures
> if you want?Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
> My friend Marc Webster makes the highest quality aircraft-specific camera
> mounts for aircraft with wing struts. If you are looking into taking
> photographs, check www.cloudbaseengineering.com , you will NOT be
> disappointed with his products
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill, his stuff looks good, and I am sure that it works fine with a
standard GA strut. Unless you have one of the alum. extruded struts on your
Kolb I doubt that any of the current cameras, (Drift,GoPro,Virb. Etc.) will
work on a Kolb strut. Too flexible, insufficient camera stabilization. At
least nothing that I stuck on my struts worked, your experience may differ.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
Hi Larry and Kolbers,
For the Kolb streamline strut, I believe one of Marc's mounts actually will work.
He had several custom aluminum extrusions made (!) that allow him to mix and
match the clamps to fit a whole lot of wing struts. He has adjustments and
clamps that fit numerous strut sizes. I've seen his mounts on a pitot tube mast
on a warbird, jury struts, pre-war antiques, hang gliders, ultralights, Cessna,
Piper, Taylorcraft, etc. etc.
On a round (original) Kolb strut, I am certain Marc can make up a custom mount
that will work. It may have to tie into another part of the wing or it may not.
I believe he has done ultralight mounts on round tubes.
The most important thing of all is that he is 1000% willing to work with experimental
airplane people to make something work better than anyone else's mount.
Marc is a hang glider, sailplane, and experimental airplane guy. Just about ready
for his "long XC" for his powered aircraft private license. Just a first
class guy, absolutely who we need in aviation.
Sorry to drift the discussion away from actual windows and in-cockpit photography.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/10/17, Larry Cottrell wrote:
Bill,
his stuff looks good, and I am sure that it works fine with
a standard GA strut. Unless you have one of the alum.
extruded struts on your Kolb I doubt that any of the current
cameras, (Drift,GoPro,Virb. Etc.) will work on a Kolb strut.
Too flexible, insufficient camera stabilization. At least
nothing that I stuck on my struts worked, your experience
may differ.Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
Bill, I think you misunderstand what I said. It would not be the fault of
anything that he might build or have. His stuff looks really nice and
substantial. There is so much vibration and harmonics with the kolb air
frame that every camera that I have tried is unable to dampen the harmonics
of the engines and air frame. I am sure that his work is outstanding. The
problem lies in the cameras that are available to us kolb cheapskates.
There are three points that I have found on my Kolb that will give you a
"watchable" video. One is the wing mount point that is normally used to
fold and hold the wing. Its not bad with some of the cameras. The next is
the gear legs, but the view is not what I want. The last for me is on the
very end of the nose cone. That is the one that I use and like. Probably
the worst camera for a Kolb is the GoPro.
It was my understanding that the original post was referring to still
camera's. While the strut mount would work for a still camera, you would
not have much control over changing conditions and framing of the shot.
Larry
On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Bill Berle
wrote:
>
> Hi Larry and Kolbers,
>
> For the Kolb streamline strut, I believe one of Marc's mounts actually
> will work. He had several custom aluminum extrusions made (!) that allow
> him to mix and match the clamps to fit a whole lot of wing struts. He has
> adjustments and clamps that fit numerous strut sizes. I've seen his mounts
> on a pitot tube mast on a warbird, jury struts, pre-war antiques, hang
> gliders, ultralights, Cessna, Piper, Taylorcraft, etc. etc.
>
> On a round (original) Kolb strut, I am certain Marc can make up a custom
> mount that will work. It may have to tie into another part of the wing or
> it may not. I believe he has done ultralight mounts on round tubes.
>
> The most important thing of all is that he is 1000% willing to work with
> experimental airplane people to make something work better than anyone
> else's mount. Marc is a hang glider, sailplane, and experimental airplane
> guy. Just about ready for his "long XC" for his powered aircraft private
> license. Just a first class guy, absolutely who we need in aviation.
>
> Sorry to drift the discussion away from actual windows and in-cockpit
> photography.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and
> for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 1/10/17, Larry Cottrell wrote:
>
> Bill,
> his stuff looks good, and I am sure that it works fine with
> a standard GA strut. Unless you have one of the alum.
> extruded struts on your Kolb I doubt that any of the current
> cameras, (Drift,GoPro,Virb. Etc.) will work on a Kolb strut.
> Too flexible, insufficient camera stabilization. At least
> nothing that I stuck on my struts worked, your experience
> may differ.Larry
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Dear John
Please inform the Kolb List that my darling Pat died on December 22nd. The
list gave him huge pleasure during latter years. Many thanks to all.
Wendy Ladd
________________________________
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-kolb-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of John Hauck
Sent: 25 December 2016 18:03:38
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got somet
hing to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Ho, ho, ho!
Thanks for all the presents, Santa, but I got nothing for my Kolb. ;-(
Merry Christmas to all my Kolb friends. Next month will be 19 years I have
been a member of this List. Sure could have used it back in the beginning
of my Kolb experience when there was no one around to ask for help and sha
re the building and flying experience. Soon to be 33 years I have been a K
olb builder and flyer. My how time flies.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Wendy,
My sincere condolences to you, your family, and Patrick's many, many
friends.
I am glad I had the opportunity to meet you and Pat at Monument Valley,
Utah. I believe that was 2008.
Rest in peace, Patrick Ladd. You will be missed.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Ladd
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got
something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Dear John
Please inform the Kolb List that my darling Pat died on December 22nd. The
list gave him huge pleasure during latter years. Many thanks to all.
Wendy Ladd
_____
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
on behalf of John Hauck
Sent: 25 December 2016 18:03:38
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got
something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Ho, ho, ho!
Thanks for all the presents, Santa, but I got nothing for my Kolb. ;-(
Merry Christmas to all my Kolb friends. Next month will be 19 years I have
been a member of this List. Sure could have used it back in the beginning
of my Kolb experience when there was no one around to ask for help and share
the building and flying experience. Soon to be 33 years I have been a Kolb
builder and flyer. My how time flies.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something |
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Our buddy Patrick Ladd with John Williamson, John Hauck, on the ramp at
Gouldings Lodge, Monument Valley, Utah, 2008.
RIP Pat.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Ladd
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got
something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Dear John
Please inform the Kolb List that my darling Pat died on December 22nd. The
list gave him huge pleasure during latter years. Many thanks to all.
Wendy Ladd
_____
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
on behalf of John Hauck
Sent: 25 December 2016 18:03:38
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got
something to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
Ho, ho, ho!
Thanks for all the presents, Santa, but I got nothing for my Kolb. ;-(
Merry Christmas to all my Kolb friends. Next month will be 19 years I have
been a member of this List. Sure could have used it back in the beginning
of my Kolb experience when there was no one around to ask for help and share
the building and flying experience. Soon to be 33 years I have been a Kolb
builder and flyer. My how time flies.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Merry Christmas from here to you!hope you got something
to add to your planes. I got a new altimeter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
Wendy
So sorry for your loss. It was good to meet you and Pat at Monument
Valley
Boyd Young
Dear John
Please inform the Kolb List that my darling Pat died on December 22nd. The
list gave him huge pleasure during latter years. Many thanks to all.
Wendy Ladd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Del Vinal <mercecedes116(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Floats, cage no. |
Hello all. I have found a set of lightning floats and am looking for
the history of them. I think they are made in Fla. They are fiberglass
outside, weight is 35lbs each.
I recently bought a second Kolb, a firefly. I can't find any number on
the top tube end. Is there one? Thanks for any info.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Floats, cage no. |
Can you post a couple of photos of the Firefly?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/16/17, Del Vinal wrote:
Subject: Kolb-List: Floats, cage no.
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 16, 2017, 9:33 AM
Hello all. I
have found a set of lightning floats and am looking for the
history of them. I think they are made in Fla. They are
fiberglass outside, weight is 35lbs each. I
recently bought a second Kolb, a firefly. I can't find
any number on the top tube end. Is there one? Thanks for any
info.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Floats, cage no. |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Herb G gave me a damaged cage from an early Firefly, it has a serial number on
an aluminum plate riveted to the side of the top tube just behind the front spar
carry through.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465144#465144
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Floats, cage no. |
I think that you are going to find that the only serial numbers on any of
the Kolb cages will be the one that you put there. For years I used FSII
thinking that the number punched into the back of the upper cage main
support was a serial number. I finally realized that it merely told them
which plane it was intended for. :-/
Larry
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
>
> Herb G gave me a damaged cage from an early Firefly, it has a serial
> number on an aluminum plate riveted to the side of the top tube just
> behind the front spar carry through.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God;
> "Thy will be done."
> And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465144#465144
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Del Vinal <mercecedes116(at)gmail.com> |
No I can't do pics. Thanks for the number info. If it's not a real
airplane, why do numbers on it I guess.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
The kits that leave Kolb are not airplanes,. They are just kits. The
numbers stamped on at the factory are factory control numbers. My guess is
liability control numbers,. When I bought a kit, I had to sign a waiver,.
I'll bet my waiver and their stamped number are attached in a file.
After you receive the kit,. Put 500 or so hours in it, you turn all the
bits and pieces into an airplane,. Except for part 103,. In which case
you turn all the bits into a vehicle. I regress,. Because you are the
manufacture of the airplane, you choose what serial number you want on
it. Kolb's control number may or may not, your choice, be included.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
Boyd/Kolbers:
I've had three kits from 1984 to 1991. The US and FS had no serial or
control numbers on the airframe or paperwork. The MKIII had a serial
number in the paperwork, but no ID on the airframe. I went ahead and
used M3-011 which was on the paperwork to register and ID my completed
airplane.
If I had wanted to, as you described below, I could have used any number
I wanted. Thought about AF1, but I was an Army aviator and couldn't
live with AF ID. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17
The kits that leave Kolb are not airplanes,. They are just kits. The
numbers stamped on at the factory are factory control numbers. My guess
is liability control numbers,. When I bought a kit, I had to sign a
waiver,. I'll bet my waiver and their stamped number are attached in a
file.
After you receive the kit,. Put 500 or so hours in it, you turn all the
bits and pieces into an airplane,. Except for part 103,. In which case
you turn all the bits into a vehicle. I regress,. Because you are the
manufacture of the airplane, you choose what serial number you want on
it. Kolb's control number may or may not, your choice, be
included.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
AAF-1?
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-becomes-first-president-to-travel-by-airplane-on-u-s-official-business
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:16 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> Boyd/Kolbers:
>
>
> I've had three kits from 1984 to 1991. The US and FS had no serial or
> control numbers on the airframe or paperwork. The MKIII had a serial
> number in the paperwork, but no ID on the airframe. I went ahead and used
> M3-011 which was on the paperwork to register and ID my completed airplane.
>
>
> If I had wanted to, as you described below, I could have used any number I
> wanted. Thought about AF1, but I was an Army aviator and couldn't live
> with AF ID. ;-)
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:47 AM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17
>
>
> The kits that leave Kolb are not airplanes,. They are just kits. The
> numbers stamped on at the factory are factory control numbers. My guess is
> liability control numbers,. When I bought a kit, I had to sign a waiver,.
> I'll bet my waiver and their stamped number are attached in a file.
>
> After you receive the kit,. Put 500 or so hours in it, you turn all the
> bits and pieces into an airplane,. Except for part 103,. In which case
> you turn all the bits into a vehicle. I regress,. Because you are the
> manufacture of the airplane, you choose what serial number you want on
> it. Kolb's control number may or may not, your choice, be included.
>
> Boyd young
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
Regardless of what anyone else is or is not allowed to do, I think Army aviators
have earned extra privilege to use any number they want, at any time, for any
reason :)
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/18/17, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2017, 8:16 AM
#yiv5670064864
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#yiv5670064864 Boyd/Kolbers: I've had three kits from 1984
to 1991. The US and FS had no serial or control numbers on
the airframe or paperwork. The MKIII had a serial number
in the paperwork, but no ID on the airframe. I went ahead
and used M3-011 which was on the paperwork to register and
ID my completed airplane. If I had wanted to, as you
described below, I could have used any number I wanted.
Thought about AF1, but I was an Army aviator and
couldn't live with AF ID. ;-) john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From:
owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf
Of B Young
Sent: Wednesday,
January 18, 2017 9:47 AM
To: Kolb
List
Subject: Kolb-List: Re:
Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 The kits that
leave Kolb are not airplanes,. They are just kits.
The numbers stamped on at the factory are factory control
numbers. My guess is liability control numbers,. When I
bought a kit, I had to sign a waiver,. I'll bet my
waiver and their stamped number are attached in a
file. After you receive the kit,. Put 500 or
so hours in it, you turn all the bits and pieces into an
airplane,. Except for part 103,. In which case you turn
all the bits into a vehicle. I regress,. Because you are
the manufacture of the airplane, you choose what serial
number you want on it. Kolb's control number
may or may not, your choice, be included.Boyd
young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
Always thought of the US Army Air Corps all the way through WWII until
it became a separate service, USAF in 1947. Now I've learned the US
Army Air Force was established 20 June 1941.
Well...Miss P'fer is M3-011. She's a Kolb and doesn't relate to much
more than what she was designed to do, and that is to make one think,
build, fly to adventure, and enjoy. I'll stick to my grass roots.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
England
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17
AAF-1?
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-becomes-first-president-to
-travel-by-airplane-on-u-s-official-business
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:16 AM, John Hauck
wrote:
Boyd/Kolbers:
I've had three kits from 1984 to 1991. The US and FS had no serial or
control numbers on the airframe or paperwork. The MKIII had a serial
number in the paperwork, but no ID on the airframe. I went ahead and
used M3-011 which was on the paperwork to register and ID my completed
airplane.
If I had wanted to, as you described below, I could have used any number
I wanted. Thought about AF1, but I was an Army aviator and couldn't
live with AF ID. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:47 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17
The kits that leave Kolb are not airplanes,. They are just kits. The
numbers stamped on at the factory are factory control numbers. My guess
is liability control numbers,. When I bought a kit, I had to sign a
waiver,. I'll bet my waiver and their stamped number are attached in a
file.
After you receive the kit,. Put 500 or so hours in it, you turn all the
bits and pieces into an airplane,. Except for part 103,. In which case
you turn all the bits into a vehicle. I regress,. Because you are the
manufacture of the airplane, you choose what serial number you want on
it. Kolb's control number may or may not, your choice, be
included.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/17/17 |
I'll have to agree with that. We aren't proud either, especially those of us that
flew in VN.
Helicopters got me interested in ultralights after I retired from the Army, and
especially Kolbs. After I got my US built and flown I had found something very,
very close to helicopters in a much cheaper, safer package. I still enjoy
those capabilities after 33 years.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Regardless of what anyone else is or is not allowed to do, I think Army aviators
have earned extra privilege to use any number they want, at any time, for any
reason :)
Bill Berle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Was planning to add this primer to the FSII, specifically this item in the photo
- it is new old stock. Tested it and while it sucks fuel into the intake side,
when you push the plunger in, it also squirts it back out the same line, unless
you do it quick and hard, in which case it squirts it out both lines.
I am thinking it is no good, but never having used one, what do I know? Is that
the way it is supposed to work?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465199#465199
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050623_medium_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/18/2017 12:29 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Was planning to add this primer to the FSII, specifically this item in the photo
- it is new old stock. Tested it and while it sucks fuel into the intake side,
when you push the plunger in, it also squirts it back out the same line,
unless you do it quick and hard, in which case it squirts it out both lines.
> I am thinking it is no good, but never having used one, what do I know? Is that
the way it is supposed to work?
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
I've never used that model, but they're just piston pumps, with inlet &
outlet check valves. Sounds like the inlet check valve is stuck open.
Can you disassemble to check it?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
Richard Pike wrote:
>
> . S N I P >
> I am thinking it is no good, but never having used one, what do I know? Is that
the way it is supposed to work?
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/primerplung.php?clickkey=69864
Richard
Definitely not the way it is supposed to work. One side in... the other out.
These are notorious for going bad, generally from drying out due to lack of use.
However, I still use them to fill the bowls instead of the bulb pump.
If this one has been sitting for a while, trying to get it to work will soak the
insides with fuel. Letting it sit for a day or two may lube the internal parts
enough to get it to work.
When I get a replacement, I always make sure I have a spare on hand.
Worth what you paid for it... your experience may vary.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465202#465202
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> |
That looks pretty much like the one on my Firefly.
Concur with a stuck check valve.
Always check the simple and easy stuff first. Are you are the fuel supply is
connected to the proper fitting? Might be worth reversing the hoses at the
primer just to see what happens.
If you can't get it apart perhaps soaking in your favorite gasoline additive
(Sea Foam, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc.) might free it up. 100LL makes a pretty
good solvent for fuel system stuff.
If this is a used primer assy. there is a good chance that the check valve
is gummed up with varnish and it may take something more like Toluene or MEK
to break it free. If all the internal parts are metal it should cause no
harm. All bets off for seals and plastic parts though, so use at your own
risk. ;)
If new, perhaps a visit with the vendor will get it replaced.
Let us know what you find out.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 12:29 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Primer plunger?
-->
Was planning to add this primer to the FSII, specifically this item in the
photo - it is new old stock. Tested it and while it sucks fuel into the
intake side, when you push the plunger in, it also squirts it back out the
same line, unless you do it quick and hard, in which case it squirts it out
both lines.
I am thinking it is no good, but never having used one, what do I know? Is
that the way it is supposed to work?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God;
"Thy will be done." And those to whom God says ; "OK then;
have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465199#465199
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050623_medium_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
Never found a need for a primer on my 912. Pull the throttle all the way
back,. Pull the enrichener on,. Crank 3 or 4 blades, let it rest 5 sec.
Then crank it again. Fires right up.
Boyd young
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net> |
George Alexander wrote:
>
> Richard Pike wrote:
> >
> > . S N I P >
> > I am thinking it is no good, but never having used one, what do I know? Is
that the way it is supposed to work?
> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/primerplung.php?clickkey=69864
>
>
> Richard
> Definitely not the way it is supposed to work. One side in... the other out.
These are notorious for going bad, generally from drying out due to lack of
use. (IGNORE THAT FILLING THE BOWLS remark. Primer don't do that.)
>
> If this one has been sitting for a while, trying to get it to work will soak
the insides with fuel. Letting it sit for a day or two may lube the internal
parts enough to get it to work.
> When I get a replacement, I always make sure I have a spare on hand.
> Worth what you paid for it... your experience may vary.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465208#465208
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Like I said, this primer/plunger is brand new, never been used, sitting on the
shelf for ... hmmm... probably since my MKIII was running a 532...
OK, since it may not be worth a flip anyway, will attempt to open this primer/plunger
up using Large Mechanical Devices and see what the insides look like. Earlier
today I dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the intake side and it didn't
do any good, nothing changed.
In an attempt to loosen the check valve (if any) I took it and beat it against
the side of the wooden picnic table. No change, but the wife did ask me if we
had any ducks in the back yard. Not helpful.
The only reason I am fooling with it is because the FSII with a 582 is driving
us crazy - it belongs to my buddy, who has the hangar next to me, and it is drawing
the fuel out through the top of the tanks, with the fuel pickup weighted,
and laying in the bottom of the tanks. Same as we did with our Hummers & Drifters
years ago. No Big Deal.
After the two lines come out of the top of the 2 tanks, they join, then go downhill
to the primer squeeze bulb (new) then further downhill to the filter, then
the gascolator (to sump out any water) and then to the Facet pump. And then
uphill to the Mikuni pulse pump next to the engine, and then to the 2 carburetors.
Sounds simple, right? Yeah, bet me and lose!
Drag the airplane out of the hangar, tanks are almost full, turn on the Facet pump,
squeeze the bulb several times, it gets as hard as a rock, you can hear the
Facet load up, just as they always change sound when the float bowl gets full
and the float needle cuts off, because the floats are full. Sounds ready.
Now you turn on the mags, hit the starter, and grind it over ad infoonity - nothing
happens.
Grab the spray can of primer/starter and shoot a dose into the air filter, ....
and it starts.
If you pull a float bowl off during this fiasco, it is dry. In spite of our best
efforts, we cannot get any fuel up into the float bowls when the engine is not
running.
But once you get the engine to semi- sorta - primer spray - run, it sucks the fuel
right on up and then functions flawlessly for the next week. But let it sit
for a month? HAH!
I am not willing to fool with this thing endlessly, I have already spent hours
redoing the fuel lines and connections, and it changes nothing. If I can rig a
primer to shoot some gas into the carbs and get it to simulate running, so that
then it will take over and behave normally, and everyone will be happy - good.
So that is why I am trying to get this primer system to work. Or am I missing something?
All suggestions will be pondered.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465209#465209
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
Richard/Kolbers:
I would never fly an aircraft that was not operating normally.
Trying to get around a stubborn engine may not be a good solution.
Should be able to pump the float bowls full, pull primer all the way on,
throttle closed, hit starter and fire right up. If not, find out why and
fix it before committing to flight. Ain't worth the risk of losing an
engine and getting hurt.
Based on your airstrip, wouldn't want to get caught short.
Concerned friend.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer plunger?
-->
Like I said, this primer/plunger is brand new, never been used, sitting on
the shelf for ... hmmm... probably since my MKIII was running a 532...
OK, since it may not be worth a flip anyway, will attempt to open this
primer/plunger up using Large Mechanical Devices and see what the insides
look like. Earlier today I dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the intake
side and it didn't do any good, nothing changed.
In an attempt to loosen the check valve (if any) I took it and beat it
against the side of the wooden picnic table. No change, but the wife did ask
me if we had any ducks in the back yard. Not helpful.
The only reason I am fooling with it is because the FSII with a 582 is
driving us crazy - it belongs to my buddy, who has the hangar next to me,
and it is drawing the fuel out through the top of the tanks, with the fuel
pickup weighted, and laying in the bottom of the tanks. Same as we did with
our Hummers & Drifters years ago. No Big Deal.
After the two lines come out of the top of the 2 tanks, they join, then go
downhill to the primer squeeze bulb (new) then further downhill to the
filter, then the gascolator (to sump out any water) and then to the Facet
pump. And then uphill to the Mikuni pulse pump next to the engine, and then
to the 2 carburetors.
Sounds simple, right? Yeah, bet me and lose!
Drag the airplane out of the hangar, tanks are almost full, turn on the
Facet pump, squeeze the bulb several times, it gets as hard as a rock, you
can hear the Facet load up, just as they always change sound when the float
bowl gets full and the float needle cuts off, because the floats are full.
Sounds ready.
Now you turn on the mags, hit the starter, and grind it over ad infoonity -
nothing happens.
Grab the spray can of primer/starter and shoot a dose into the air filter,
.... and it starts.
If you pull a float bowl off during this fiasco, it is dry. In spite of our
best efforts, we cannot get any fuel up into the float bowls when the engine
is not running.
But once you get the engine to semi- sorta - primer spray - run, it sucks
the fuel right on up and then functions flawlessly for the next week. But
let it sit for a month? HAH!
I am not willing to fool with this thing endlessly, I have already spent
hours redoing the fuel lines and connections, and it changes nothing. If I
can rig a primer to shoot some gas into the carbs and get it to simulate
running, so that then it will take over and behave normally, and everyone
will be happy - good.
So that is why I am trying to get this primer system to work. Or am I
missing something? All suggestions will be pondered.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God;
"Thy will be done." And those to whom God says ; "OK then;
have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465209#465209
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/18/2017 5:37 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Like I said, this primer/plunger is brand new, never been used, sitting on the
shelf for ... hmmm... probably since my MKIII was running a 532...
>
> OK, since it may not be worth a flip anyway, will attempt to open this primer/plunger
up using Large Mechanical Devices and see what the insides look like.
Earlier today I dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the intake side and it didn't
do any good, nothing changed.
>
> In an attempt to loosen the check valve (if any) I took it and beat it against
the side of the wooden picnic table. No change, but the wife did ask me if we
had any ducks in the back yard. Not helpful.
>
> The only reason I am fooling with it is because the FSII with a 582 is driving
us crazy - it belongs to my buddy, who has the hangar next to me, and it is
drawing the fuel out through the top of the tanks, with the fuel pickup weighted,
and laying in the bottom of the tanks. Same as we did with our Hummers & Drifters
years ago. No Big Deal.
>
> After the two lines come out of the top of the 2 tanks, they join, then go downhill
to the primer squeeze bulb (new) then further downhill to the filter, then
the gascolator (to sump out any water) and then to the Facet pump. And then
uphill to the Mikuni pulse pump next to the engine, and then to the 2 carburetors.
>
> Sounds simple, right? Yeah, bet me and lose!
>
> Drag the airplane out of the hangar, tanks are almost full, turn on the Facet
pump, squeeze the bulb several times, it gets as hard as a rock, you can hear
the Facet load up, just as they always change sound when the float bowl gets
full and the float needle cuts off, because the floats are full. Sounds ready.
>
> Now you turn on the mags, hit the starter, and grind it over ad infoonity - nothing
happens.
>
> Grab the spray can of primer/starter and shoot a dose into the air filter, ....
and it starts.
>
> If you pull a float bowl off during this fiasco, it is dry. In spite of our best
efforts, we cannot get any fuel up into the float bowls when the engine is
not running.
>
> But once you get the engine to semi- sorta - primer spray - run, it sucks the
fuel right on up and then functions flawlessly for the next week. But let it
sit for a month? HAH!
>
> I am not willing to fool with this thing endlessly, I have already spent hours
redoing the fuel lines and connections, and it changes nothing. If I can rig
a primer to shoot some gas into the carbs and get it to simulate running, so
that then it will take over and behave normally, and everyone will be happy -
good.
>
> So that is why I am trying to get this primer system to work. Or am I missing
something? All suggestions will be pondered.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
This is coming from a 4stroke background, so season as desired.
If carb float bowls aren't filling and you're confident that the bulb is
functioning normally, then it sounds like either the check valve in the
pulse pump is sticking (is that likely?), or both carb float valves are
sticking (again, likely?) Either way, once the motor starts shaking, the
vibration is almost certainly freeing up whatever is sticking, which
would explain it running after the 'artificial' prime.
For troubleshooting, if it were my 4 stroke engine, I'd 1st plumb around
the pulse pump and run the facet, then see if you get normal startup. (I
spent several different lives troubleshooting various systems, and if
you do it for money, you do the easy first). If no, don't use your
primer can. Pull the float bowls (which we can assume will still be
dry), and try the Facet again. Fair chance that the action of removing
the bowls will jar the float valves loose, but if it doesn't, then
you'll know for sure that your problem is there.
I'd have to agree with John; flying it like that does sound a bit
spooky. What if whatever is sticking decides that the vibration isn't
enough to keep it freed up?
Charlie
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those that understand binary
and those that don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
After reading this again and Charlie's suggestions, pull the fuel lines at
the carbs, turn on the Facet, and see if fuel getting that far. Guess you
have probably done that.
Change one thing at a time until the monster appears.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer plunger?
On 1/18/2017 5:37 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
> -->
>
> Like I said, this primer/plunger is brand new, never been used, sitting on
the shelf for ... hmmm... probably since my MKIII was running a 532...
>
> OK, since it may not be worth a flip anyway, will attempt to open this
primer/plunger up using Large Mechanical Devices and see what the insides
look like. Earlier today I dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the intake
side and it didn't do any good, nothing changed.
>
> In an attempt to loosen the check valve (if any) I took it and beat it
against the side of the wooden picnic table. No change, but the wife did ask
me if we had any ducks in the back yard. Not helpful.
>
> The only reason I am fooling with it is because the FSII with a 582 is
driving us crazy - it belongs to my buddy, who has the hangar next to me,
and it is drawing the fuel out through the top of the tanks, with the fuel
pickup weighted, and laying in the bottom of the tanks. Same as we did with
our Hummers & Drifters years ago. No Big Deal.
>
> After the two lines come out of the top of the 2 tanks, they join, then go
downhill to the primer squeeze bulb (new) then further downhill to the
filter, then the gascolator (to sump out any water) and then to the Facet
pump. And then uphill to the Mikuni pulse pump next to the engine, and then
to the 2 carburetors.
>
> Sounds simple, right? Yeah, bet me and lose!
>
> Drag the airplane out of the hangar, tanks are almost full, turn on the
Facet pump, squeeze the bulb several times, it gets as hard as a rock, you
can hear the Facet load up, just as they always change sound when the float
bowl gets full and the float needle cuts off, because the floats are full.
Sounds ready.
>
> Now you turn on the mags, hit the starter, and grind it over ad infoonity
- nothing happens.
>
> Grab the spray can of primer/starter and shoot a dose into the air filter,
.... and it starts.
>
> If you pull a float bowl off during this fiasco, it is dry. In spite of
our best efforts, we cannot get any fuel up into the float bowls when the
engine is not running.
>
> But once you get the engine to semi- sorta - primer spray - run, it sucks
the fuel right on up and then functions flawlessly for the next week. But
let it sit for a month? HAH!
>
> I am not willing to fool with this thing endlessly, I have already spent
hours redoing the fuel lines and connections, and it changes nothing. If I
can rig a primer to shoot some gas into the carbs and get it to simulate
running, so that then it will take over and behave normally, and everyone
will be happy - good.
>
> So that is why I am trying to get this primer system to work. Or am I
missing something? All suggestions will be pondered.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
This is coming from a 4stroke background, so season as desired.
If carb float bowls aren't filling and you're confident that the bulb is
functioning normally, then it sounds like either the check valve in the
pulse pump is sticking (is that likely?), or both carb float valves are
sticking (again, likely?) Either way, once the motor starts shaking, the
vibration is almost certainly freeing up whatever is sticking, which would
explain it running after the 'artificial' prime.
For troubleshooting, if it were my 4 stroke engine, I'd 1st plumb around the
pulse pump and run the facet, then see if you get normal startup. (I spent
several different lives troubleshooting various systems, and if you do it
for money, you do the easy first). If no, don't use your primer can. Pull
the float bowls (which we can assume will still be dry), and try the Facet
again. Fair chance that the action of removing the bowls will jar the float
valves loose, but if it doesn't, then you'll know for sure that your problem
is there.
I'd have to agree with John; flying it like that does sound a bit spooky.
What if whatever is sticking decides that the vibration isn't enough to keep
it freed up?
Charlie
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those that understand binary and
those that don't.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Thanks John & Charlie.
After it starts, Ed usually lets it sit at a fast idle for around 5 minutes to
let it slowly warm up to fully warm, and then no matter where we go for the rest
of the day or how many times it is restarted, it behaves itself normally for
the rest of the day.
It is only after it sits for a month that we have to jump through these hoops.
And since Ed is still working & gainfully employed, he some times doesn't get
to fly for a month or so.
If I understand correctly, you are saying it is acceptable to run a bypass around
the Mikuni pulse pump and straight to the carbs. So - now we have a fuel line
coming up from below the tanks (where the Facet electric pump lives) and as
it gets to the Mikuni pulse pump, I split the line and then join it again upstream
of the Mikuni pulse pump. And then T it off to each of the 2 carbs.
Now both the carbs are being fed by the Facet prior to start up - and then both
the Mikuni and the Facet after startup? (Unless the float needles are sticking
in the float needle seats prior to startup, and then nothing gets fed) (I will
check this tomorrow by tapping on the floats while the Facet is running and
seeing if anything changes/the float bowls fill up)
Assuming that bypassing the Mikuni and letting the Facet apply pressure directly
to the float needle assembly's, - which then respond properly - and that this
resolves the problem - then the problem would be that until the Mikuni starts
to pump because the engine is starting to run, that when the engine is not running
then the Mikuni is not letting fuel flow freely through it. Correct?
Which then begs the question - is that normal for a Mikuni? Should a Mikuni allow
fuel to flow through it when there is pressure on the inlet side of the pump,
but no pulses being received through the pulse port? I am thinking that a normal
Mikuni ought to allow the fuel to flow through it. Comments?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465218#465218
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
Richard,
Are you able to see the fuel through the lines?
Serenity is basically the same setup, minus the Facet pump and the sump.
When I use the squeeze bulb I can watch the fuel flow up through the Mikuni
pulse pump and filter then go to the carb. If I am gentle and careful I can
usually tell when the floats shut off the flow and the bowl is full.
Just a guess here based on your description, but it sounds like the Facet
isn't generating enough pressure to push the fuel through the Mikuni and
fuel flow is stopped there. I can't say if this is the fault of the Mikuni
or the Facet.
A couple of things to try: Bypass the pumps one at a time and see if you can
isolate the symptom. If you use clear hose it my help figure it out. You
wouldn't have to fly, just drain the lines and bowls and see what happens.
The symptom sounds like vapor lock even thought that is not it.
Oh, one more thought. Pull a hose from one of the carbs and see if you can
get gas to come out with just the Facet or the squeeze bulb.
Once the engine is running, how does it perform if you turn off the Facet
pump?
More troubleshooting would probably involve splicing in a pressure gauge in
various places to see that is going on.
For what it is worth, I like using the squeeze bulb to get gas up to the
bowl then a couple of squirts from the primer (cold engine only) usually
gets the 447 to fire off on the first pull of the rope.
Hope this helps,
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:38 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer plunger?
-->
Like I said, this primer/plunger is brand new, never been used, sitting on
the shelf for ... hmmm... probably since my MKIII was running a 532...
OK, since it may not be worth a flip anyway, will attempt to open this
primer/plunger up using Large Mechanical Devices and see what the insides
look like. Earlier today I dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the intake
side and it didn't do any good, nothing changed.
In an attempt to loosen the check valve (if any) I took it and beat it
against the side of the wooden picnic table. No change, but the wife did ask
me if we had any ducks in the back yard. Not helpful.
The only reason I am fooling with it is because the FSII with a 582 is
driving us crazy - it belongs to my buddy, who has the hangar next to me,
and it is drawing the fuel out through the top of the tanks, with the fuel
pickup weighted, and laying in the bottom of the tanks. Same as we did with
our Hummers & Drifters years ago. No Big Deal.
After the two lines come out of the top of the 2 tanks, they join, then go
downhill to the primer squeeze bulb (new) then further downhill to the
filter, then the gascolator (to sump out any water) and then to the Facet
pump. And then uphill to the Mikuni pulse pump next to the engine, and then
to the 2 carburetors.
Sounds simple, right? Yeah, bet me and lose!
Drag the airplane out of the hangar, tanks are almost full, turn on the
Facet pump, squeeze the bulb several times, it gets as hard as a rock, you
can hear the Facet load up, just as they always change sound when the float
bowl gets full and the float needle cuts off, because the floats are full.
Sounds ready.
Now you turn on the mags, hit the starter, and grind it over ad infoonity -
nothing happens.
Grab the spray can of primer/starter and shoot a dose into the air filter,
.... and it starts.
If you pull a float bowl off during this fiasco, it is dry. In spite of our
best efforts, we cannot get any fuel up into the float bowls when the engine
is not running.
But once you get the engine to semi- sorta - primer spray - run, it sucks
the fuel right on up and then functions flawlessly for the next week. But
let it sit for a month? HAH!
I am not willing to fool with this thing endlessly, I have already spent
hours redoing the fuel lines and connections, and it changes nothing. If I
can rig a primer to shoot some gas into the carbs and get it to simulate
running, so that then it will take over and behave normally, and everyone
will be happy - good.
So that is why I am trying to get this primer system to work. Or am I
missing something? All suggestions will be pondered.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God;
"Thy will be done." And those to whom God says ; "OK then;
have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465209#465209
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Good stuff Stuart, thanks.
Currently using NAPA black fuel injection fuel line, but can pull it off to do
some testing, and that is what we will do tomorrow. Weather is supposed to be
good, so we will disconnect and re-plumb to see what works and what doesn't before
we ever actually fire it up.
My bud who is helping me with the Firefly build is coming over to help, and that
is good. The older I get, the less I am impressed with how good I am at sorting
this kind of stuff out.
Will post tomorrow night and let you guys know what we found. Thanks a lot.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465221#465221
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
On 1/18/2017 7:31 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Thanks John & Charlie.
> After it starts, Ed usually lets it sit at a fast idle for around 5 minutes to
let it slowly warm up to fully warm, and then no matter where we go for the
rest of the day or how many times it is restarted, it behaves itself normally
for the rest of the day.
>
> It is only after it sits for a month that we have to jump through these hoops.
And since Ed is still working & gainfully employed, he some times doesn't get
to fly for a month or so.
>
> If I understand correctly, you are saying it is acceptable to run a bypass around
the Mikuni pulse pump and straight to the carbs. So - now we have a fuel
line coming up from below the tanks (where the Facet electric pump lives) and
as it gets to the Mikuni pulse pump, I split the line and then join it again
upstream of the Mikuni pulse pump. And then T it off to each of the 2 carbs.
>
> Now both the carbs are being fed by the Facet prior to start up - and then both
the Mikuni and the Facet after startup? (Unless the float needles are sticking
in the float needle seats prior to startup, and then nothing gets fed) (I
will check this tomorrow by tapping on the floats while the Facet is running and
seeing if anything changes/the float bowls fill up)
>
> Assuming that bypassing the Mikuni and letting the Facet apply pressure directly
to the float needle assembly's, - which then respond properly - and that this
resolves the problem - then the problem would be that until the Mikuni starts
to pump because the engine is starting to run, that when the engine is not
running then the Mikuni is not letting fuel flow freely through it. Correct?
> Which then begs the question - is that normal for a Mikuni? Should a Mikuni allow
fuel to flow through it when there is pressure on the inlet side of the pump,
but no pulses being received through the pulse port? I am thinking that a
normal Mikuni ought to allow the fuel to flow through it. Comments?
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
I should have bolded the statement 'for troubleshooting'. :-) I don't
know Rotax 2 strokes at all, except in a generic 'almost all systems
will work like this' kind of way. I'd never tell you to fly something
that's a major mod without knowing from experience that it's safe. But
*for troubleshooting*, bypassing the pulse pump will tell you if the
pulse pump is blocking the flow instead of passing it properly. Actually
flying the engine with only the Facet (pulse pump bypassed) *sounds*
safe enough *to me*, since the Facet is presumably there to back up a
pulse pump failure, and there are a lot of homebuilts with bigger
engines flying with only a pair of Facets for fuel delivery. But I don't
know Rotax 2strokes, and I don't know their carbs, at least on a 1st
hand basis.
I can't imagine it being normal behavior for the pulse pump to block
flow until it's getting pulses from the crankcase, but I don't *know* that.
On easiest 1st troubleshooting: John's probably correct; it's likely
easier to just pull a fuel line off a carb than to splice around the
pulse pump. But you're looking at the plane; pick what's easiest 1st &
do it. Just do as John reminded, and do one thing at a time.
Back to (continuing?) safety: Just because the problem hasn't shown up
while flying so far, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Whatever is
blocking fuel flow is obviously defective, and it's a defect that isn't
like a dead battery on a Lycoming, where it doesn't participate in
engine operation after the engine starts. If the blockage ever becomes
permanent, the engine will stop, and you can't know if/when that will
happen.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
The mikuni pump should be 2 check valves with a chamber between them.
One side of the chamber is a diafram The pulse line with a negative
pulse, pulls on a diafram increasing the volume of the chamber pulling
fuel from the tank, followed by a positive pulse, pushing the fuel from the
chamber to the carbs. The 2 check valves should easily allow fuel to flow
without the engine running.
If the check valve membrane is starting to deteriorate due to age or
incompatibility to the fuel,. It may become sticky. When allowed to dry
out in a month's time it can stick to the valve seat not allowing fuel flow
till it is forced off the seat. Seemingly to work correctly till it dries
out again.
The float bowl needle valves can also become sticky. Giving the same
symptoms.
To check for sticking valves in the mikuni . At a time when it is hard to
start. remove a fuel line from the carb and check for fuel flow by
squeezing the ball or turning on the faucet. If there is flow check
needle valves. If nothing pull the fuel line to the inlet of the mikuni
. If you have flow check or rebuild the mikuni. If no flow check or
replace the squeeze ball and or faucet pump.
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer plunger? |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
To all those who contributed suggestions: thank you. We found the problem; it was
that the float needles would stick if the airplane sat too long between flights
- and a contributing factor is that my airstrip is on an angle, uphill to
land, downhill to take off.
Ed would push the Firestar out of his hangar and turn it uphill, which put the
engine at about a 20 degree uphill angle. That, combined with maybe having it
get gunky carbs if he let it sit for several weeks between flights was causing
the float needles to stick in the seats, and blocking off the gas filling the
float bowls.
It took a third set of eyes & brains to think outside the box - Dave said "Why
don't you try and start it with the airplane facing down the hill, so the engine
is sitting level, instead of sitting uphill at such an angle, and maybe making
the float bowls and needles and seats not work right?"
Sometimes when you get somebody who is looking at the problem for the first time
they will see it clearly.
Anyway, thanks to all. It started and ran perfect. During the test flight, it ran
perfect. Smoothest and nicest you ever heard
Unfortunately, after landing, Ed ran off the runway and into the treeline, the
Ivoprop hit a branch and chopped it off and threw it into the top of the right
wing, cut the fabric in 3 places and bent the aileron tube, and broke off the
wingtip counterbalance. Didn't break the IVO but it is not straight, I am guessing
it is toast. At least nobody got hurt and it is somebody else's money...
Sigh...
I will never get my Firefly built...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465260#465260
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> |
Thank you Boyd. Happy memories.
Wendy
________________________________
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-kolb-list-server@matronic
s.com> on behalf of B Young
Sent: 14 January 2017 19:00:17
Subject: Kolb-List: Patrick
Wendy
So sorry for your loss. It was good to meet you and Pat at Monument Vall
ey
Boyd Young
Dear John
Please inform the Kolb List that my darling Pat died on December 22nd. The
list gave him huge pleasure during latter years. Many thanks to all.
Wendy Ladd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
Richard, glad to hear everyone is okay. Thank you for the valuable input.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
>From what I understand it all boiled down to dirty carbs. Changing the
angle of the aircraft to get an engine start was more a band aid than a
solution.
Ya'll be careful out there.
I am also pleased no one was injured.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Green
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 7:40 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Richard Pike
Richard, glad to hear everyone is okay. Thank you for the valuable input.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trimming raggedy cable ends |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Spent a few minutes in the garage this afternoon, and this worked so well it needed
sharing.
Had a set of used rudder & elevator cables that we are going to be using in the
Firefly, they are in good shape except that the ends are pretty ratty. How to
trim them off without taking a chance on nicking them?
Use a round x-acto knife blade. Used a screwdriver to spread the blade tang so
it would slip over the cable. Work the tapered edge up against the swedge. Clamp
the sheet metal vise grips in the vise, used them to hold the cable, and hold
the blade tight against the swedge. Used the cut-off wheel on the Dremel and
buzzed off the raggedy wires.
Easier to do than tell about. Did all four wires in about ten minutes.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465319#465319
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/roughjpg_721.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/xactojpg_117.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bladejpg_106.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/beforejpg_165.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/afterjpg_156.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
If you've been around Kolbs long enough and you called the factory, you've
probably talked to Travis Brown. Absolutely one of the nicest people ever
and always ready to help with a problem. Today is his birthday so if you
have a minute go to his FB page and wish him a happy one.
Rick Girard
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mojavjoe(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
Richard;
You wouldn't have had to trim your cable ends if you had used this little trick.
It's called spin welding, and it starts by rough cutting the wire cable aprox.
6in. longer than needed, and then clamping vice grips at the point you want
the cable to end. Next chuck a drill set to its lowest speed setting to the rigged
end of the cable. Since wire cable can be wound clock wise or counter clock
wise set the drill to forward or reverse so the drill will tighten the wire.
Insure the vice grips will not move (put a brick on them or clamp in a vice).
Next heat the wire close to the vice grip jaws to red hot with a torch slowly
tighten the wire with the drill while pulling the drill away. The wire will
break with the ends fused. Sometimes there might be a wire end or two sticking
out of the weld but a file will take care of that.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:22:28 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Trimming raggedy cable ends
Spent a few minutes in the garage this afternoon, and this worked so well it needed
sharing.
Had a set of used rudder & elevator cables that we are going to be using in the
Firefly, they are in good shape except that the ends are pretty ratty. How to
trim them off without taking a chance on nicking them?
Use a round x-acto knife blade. Used a screwdriver to spread the blade tang so
it would slip over the cable. Work the tapered edge up against the swedge. Clamp
the sheet metal vise grips in the vise, used them to hold the cable, and hold
the blade tight against the swedge. Used the cut-off wheel on the Dremel and
buzzed off the raggedy wires.
Easier to do than tell about. Did all four wires in about ten minutes.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God; "Thy
will be done."
And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465319#465319
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/roughjpg_721.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/xactojpg_117.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bladejpg_106.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/beforejpg_165.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/afterjpg_156.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Joe, I don't think I would do that. Looking up the latest version of Acceptable
Methods and Practices:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861
The part about control cables and heat:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/Chapter_07.pdf
7-147.b - it says not to use a torch under any circumstances. I use a well-sharpened
chisel, set the cable on a heavy steel dolly, and smack it with a big hammer.
Cuts it off clean every time, and then slip a length of heat shrink tubing
over the cable before you swedge it. then shrink it to cover
Since this cable came from a different Firestar, it was a case of someone else
making it up, and me just trying to make it convenient.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465399#465399
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | K I <wrk2win4u(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
Hi Richard,
The easiest way I found to cut strand cables without having them unravel is to
use masking tape around the cable before the cut begins. Then use a dermal with
a metal cutting disk to sever the cable. That way it does not unravel and remains
in the current condition it was in when you put the tape on it.
Kurt,
Mark III Classic
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 24, 2017, at 09:08, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> Joe, I don't think I would do that. Looking up the latest version of Acceptable
Methods and Practices:
>
> https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861
>
> The part about control cables and heat:
>
> https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/Chapter_07.pdf
>
> 7-147.b - it says not to use a torch under any circumstances. I use a well-sharpened
chisel, set the cable on a heavy steel dolly, and smack it with a big
hammer. Cuts it off clean every time, and then slip a length of heat shrink tubing
over the cable before you swedge it. then shrink it to cover
>
> Since this cable came from a different Firestar, it was a case of someone else
making it up, and me just trying to make it convenient.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465399#465399
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
Or, you could get one of these:
https://smile.amazon.com/Felco-C7-wire-cutter-ea/dp/B0006229UQ/ref=sr_1_1
?ie=UTF8&qid=1485314793&sr=8-1&keywords=felco+cable+cutters
I don't remember what I paid for mine 45 years ago, but back then I was
making about $2.50 an hour so I'm sure it wasn't $60. Still they cut like
they did when they were new so I guess a quality tool does last a lifetime.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 1:29 PM, K I wrote:
> Richard,
>
> Use a Dremel with a mini cutting blade for metal. Use just a little
> masking tape around the strand before you make the cut. Simply zip
> through all the strands without disturbing them and unraveling them.
>
> Kurt
> Mark III classic
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jan 24, 2017, at 06:20, "mojavjoe(at)comcast.net"
> wrote:
>
> Richard;
>
> You wouldn't have had to trim your cable ends if you had used this little
> trick. It's called spin welding, and it starts by rough cutting the wir
e
> cable aprox. 6in. longer than needed, and then clamping vice grips at the
> point you want the cable to end. Next chuck a drill set to its lowest spe
ed
> setting to the rigged end of the cable. Since wire cable can be wound clo
ck
> wise or counter clock wise set the drill to forward or reverse so the dri
ll
> will tighten the wire. Insure the vice grips will not move (put a brick o
n
> them or clamp in a vice). Next heat the wire close to the vice grip jaws
to
> red hot with a torch slowly tighten the wire with the drill while pulling
> the drill away. The wire will break with the ends fused. Sometimes there
> might be a wire end or two sticking out of the weld but a file will take
> care of that.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
> *To: *"kolb-list"
> *Sent: *Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:22:28 PM
> *Subject: *Kolb-List: Trimming raggedy cable ends
>
>
> Spent a few minutes in the garage this afternoon, and this worked so well
> it needed sharing.
> Had a set of used rudder & elevator cables that we are going to be using
> in the Firefly, they are in good shape except that the ends are pretty
> ratty. How to trim them off without taking a chance on nicking them?
>
> Use a round x-acto knife blade. Used a screwdriver to spread the blade
> tang so it would slip over the cable. Work the tapered edge up against th
e
> swedge. Clamp the sheet metal vise grips in the vise, used them to hold t
he
> cable, and hold the blade tight against the swedge. Used the cut-off whee
l
> on the Dremel and buzzed off the raggedy wires.
>
> Easier to do than tell about. Did all four wires in about ten minutes.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those who say to God;
> "Thy will be done."
> And those to whom God says ; "OK then; have it your way."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465319#465319
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/roughjpg_721.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/xactojpg_117.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bladejpg_106.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/beforejpg_165.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/afte===
>
>
--
=9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D
Groucho Marx
<http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Kurt - Rick - Joe - Thank you for your ideas. But the original control cables from
the original Firestar we got were destroyed, so we trashed them and kept the
cables from the FSII basket case / kit that we sold, these are the cables pictured.
These cables are what we are going to use in our do-it-yourself Firefly.
These cables are all fuzzed, and the point of this post was to help someone
whose cables are also fuzzed.
Your ideas are great for someone making up cables from scratch. Great ideas. (Except
for the torch. Not so sure about the torch)
Thanks
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465415#465415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AD DECKER <adcon4(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 11:35 AM, K I wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> The easiest way I found to cut strand cables without having them unravel
> is to use masking tape around the cable before the cut begins. Then use a
> dermal with a metal cutting disk to sever the cable. That way it does not
> unravel and remains in the current condition it was in when you put the
> tape on it.
>
> Kurt,
> Mark III Classic
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 09:08, Richard Pike
> wrote:
> >
> thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
> >
> > Joe, I don't think I would do that. Looking up the latest version of
> Acceptable Methods and Practices:
> >
> > https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_
> circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861
> >
> > The part about control cables and heat:
> >
> > https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/Chapter_07.
> pdf
> >
> > 7-147.b - it says not to use a torch under any circumstances. I use a
> well-sharpened chisel, set the cable on a heavy steel dolly, and smack it
> with a big hammer. Cuts it off clean every time, and then slip a length of
> heat shrink tubing over the cable before you swedge it. then shrink it to
> cover
> >
> > Since this cable came from a different Firestar, it was a case of
> someone else making it up, and me just trying to make it convenient.
> >
> > --------
> > Richard Pike
> > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> > Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> >
> > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465399#465399
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Beautiful Mk III C needs a good home |
| From: | "lownslow" <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com> |
Got a beautiful Mark III classic; bought another plane so this one needs a new
home. Great condition, ready to fly! Rotax 670 with plenty of power. PM me
and I can send a ton of photos and happy to discuss.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465431#465431
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolb_mk_3_photo2_147.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Beautiful Mk III C needs a good home |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Not interested in buying your airplane - I already have one that I am very happy
with - but tell us about the 670: How many hours? How much power? Rate of climb
solo and 2 up? Fuel burn @ rpm & airspeed? (s) What sort of prop? Climb @
rpm & cruise @ rpm. The important stuff. The more you tell the better we like
it. What could we expect if we got one?
Eventually I will be replacing my faithful 582, and if 670's are faithful and worthy,
I might be considering one of them. Thanks.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465438#465438
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
| Subject: | A Kolb MarkIII Extra Project for sale. |
I have a MarkIII Extra project for sale. It has a GPAS VW 2180 engine with
dual ignition, starter, alternator, redrill, wood prop, etc.
The fabric work on all surfaces (wings, tail feather, etc) is complete. An
yone interested can contact me via my email: Bgreen(at)bimi.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Kolb MarkIII Extra Project for sale. |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
All
I can attest to the excellent job Bob has done...The
best...definitely as good as factory...Herb
On 01/27/2017 02:44 PM, Bob Green wrote:
> I have a MarkIII Extra project for sale. It has a GPAS VW 2180 engine with dual
ignition, starter, alternator, redrill, wood prop, etc.
> The fabric work on all surfaces (wings, tail feather, etc) is complete. Anyone
interested can contact me via my email: Bgreen(at)bimi.org
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A Kolb MarkIII Extra Project for sale. |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
I will 2nd what Herb has said: this is one fine piece of work. Nothing that Bob
has done so far will need to be redone.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465493#465493
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Green <bgreen(at)bimi.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Kolb-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/27/17 |
Thank you Herb and Richard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put on
2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the
front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm apart. So
going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the outboard 2/3
thirds of each wing.
All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
At idle
No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
20 deg flaps 34 to 32
40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
All speeds are IAS
With 4200 rpm on the engine
No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on
level ground.
With vgs
the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII.
Should have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on
my time.
Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect
landing and at altitude please.
Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach? and what was the
OAT at the time?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did
the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
At idle
No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
20 deg flaps 34 to 32
40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
All speeds are IAS
With 4200 rpm on the engine
No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
on level ground.
With vgs
the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:22 AM, B Young wrote:
> I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
> speed VG's on.
>
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
> On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
> on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
> the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
> apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the
> outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
>
> All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
>
> At idle
> No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
> 20 deg flaps 34 to 32
> 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
>
> All speeds are IAS
>
> With 4200 rpm on the engine
> No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
> 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
> 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
>
> Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
> on level ground.
>
> With vgs
> the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
> The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
>
> I really wish I had done this year's ago!
>
> Boyd
>
Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
(Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
I know that Kolbs aren't really about the other end of the spectrum, but
did it affect top speed, or fuel burn at your normal cruise speed?
Thanks for sharing the info,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
Well, some of you guys are really stubborn! :-)
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
No comment!
Well...yes, I do have a comment. When Homer Kolb rebuilt the 1985
Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight, a 1985 Firestar, he put a little more
dihedral in the wings and added VGs. I got to fly this aircraft that
year and again after the rebuild. Unfortunately, I was having a lot of
fun with a dual carb 503 on an original FS and forgot all about the
numbers and stuff like that. It was a sky rocket. Marcus Kolb is still
flying his Dad's FS.
Can't wait until I can say, "Gosh, I wish I had done this years ago!!!"
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Cottrell
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
I really wish I had done this year's ago!
Boyd
Well, some of you guys are really stubborn! :-)
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
I don't recall thumping in a landing since installing the vgs . I
generally do a wheel landing, not much change there. What has been
referred to kolb's quit ( the stall) used to be quite sudden. With the
out board two thirds covered in vgs the center stalls first. And starts to
let you down But because there is so much more nose up possible before the
wing tips stall you can still pull back, to a greater angle of attack. My
tail wheel will hit a long time before the wing stalls. When the tail
wheel hits there is a loss of incidence, the mains come down with no
tendency to bounce.
I installed them last fall before it got too cold. 50 to 60 deg. I used
the tape John gilpen sent. It is not a foam tape. Just sticky and rather
thin. When I get a credit card in the mail, it is attached to the paper
with sticky. You can rub it off and roll it into a ball between your
thumb and finger. Same stuff, just way thinner. I had visited with
Roger while out to Larry's,. He had a couple come off,. But in the stickys
defence. Roger said it pulled the paint with it. His thoughts were the
paint was put on too dry and did not melt into the under laying paint.
In 10 to 12 hours I've not had any failure. I've flown in probably 10 deg
to 70 deg air.
Before vgs my mkiii would stall with no tendency for a wing to drop. That
has not changed.
I've not been up with a passenger, so I can't offer any help with a more
forward cg or gross weight.
I've not been on a long enough trip to comment on fuel economy. If it has
slowed me down the amount has been so little I really could not tell.
Even if it is 2 mph,. A 4 hour trip will be extended by 8 min. I'm not
going to worry. A tiny change in wind will make a bigger difference.
I think the center wing is stalling first. Between the first nibble of a
stall and the break. I remain in very positive control.
Also I believe there is more difference in speeds with the engine at 4200
because imho in my humble opinion. The prop is helping to pull the air
across the wing at a more favorable angle.
If you put vgs across the entire wing I believe you would get better
numbers than mine, but I think I like the stall nibble,. As a warning.
Of anyone has questions feel free.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 9:56 AM, "John Hauck" wrote:
> As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII. Should
> have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on my time.
>
>
> Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect landing
> and at altitude please.
>
>
> Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach? and what was the
> OAT at the time?
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
>
>
> I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll
> speed VG's on.
>
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.
> On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing. Between the ribs I put
> on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at
> the front . I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130 mm
> apart. So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm. and I just did the
> outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.
>
> All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs
>
> At idle
> No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36
> 20 deg flaps 34 to 32
> 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.
>
> All speeds are IAS
>
> With 4200 rpm on the engine
> No flaps 36. To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27
> 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25
> 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24
>
> Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance
> on level ground.
>
> With vgs
> the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up compared to 3 point.
> The stall break was 8.6 deg nose up
>
> I really wish I had done this year's ago!
>
> Boyd
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same general
type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make it
appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of the
horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
10:22 AM, B Young
wrote:
I don't think I have shared the performance
numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
stabilizer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill
The vgs were installed as per instructions.
Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front of
the hinge line to the rudder. I may do a bit more testing once the
weather breaks.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan"
wrote:
> williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
>
> Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of
> the horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
> 10:22 AM, B Young
> wrote:
> I don't think I have shared the performance
> numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
> I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
> stabilizer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill
Longer gear legs could be an improvement, but last fall a bunch of us
landed on a dry lake bed, walked back to an area where we could see
steam. Adjacent to that steam we stepped off a 700 ft section of lake
bed, went back the next day and used half of it. Density altitude
about 5000 ft or maybe a bit higher. With longer legs, to get that down
to 200 ft, guess there are places that may be an advantage.
Boyd
The stock mkiii came with 15 x 600 x 6 tires
I now have 800 x 6. With the once offered tapered steel gear.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Thanks, Boyd. Were those tests conducted with or without beard?
Appreciate the info. My MKIII doesn't fly quite like yours, but they
have the same wing and tail section. I plan to install VGs all the way
across the wing and under the horizontal stab. If I have enough I may
try some on the vertical stab, both sides, to see what it does to the
rudder.
I don't know if JG experimented with the vert stab or not.
Can't wait to say I wish I hadn't waited so long. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Bill
The vgs were installed as per instructions.
Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front
of the hinge line to the rudder. I may do a bit more testing once the
weather breaks.
Boyd
On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan"
wrote:
Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom
of the horizontal stabilizer, or the top? Are you going to add more?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at
10:22 AM, B Young
wrote:
I don't think I have shared the performance
numbers after I put my Stoll speed VG's on.
I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal
stabilizer.
-List" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Boyd
Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
(Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
Charlie
*************
I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.
While at 4200 rpm, and between the stall nibble and stall break, I still
had good aileron control. I think what is happening. There is an area
outside the prop arc with no vgs. The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the
arc. I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first. The
prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing).
Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from
stalling. It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the
start of vgs that stalls first. Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some
of that. More vgs and testing needed. But I am not unhappy where I am. A
little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when
landing. Kind of like washout built into the wing. I just need to put in
my pilot hand book, to make the most of that benefit partial is needed.
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
John
I think on something like a short coupled Pitts vgs on the vertical may
help. The kolb has such a long moment arm to the tail I can't see any
benefit unless you were about to do a ground loop.
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly great deal of improvement
getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift struts. Reduced the drag
so much I couldn't get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft
grass strip with the FS in its original near level configuration. By going to
longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up more of the bottom of the wing
to help slow me down on landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I could rotate much more
than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off the ground and not
in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need a step stool to get
in and out of the airplane. As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get
my butt over the longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the wing
turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in good shape flying, that is
flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on a month or so long cross country, I touch down
as the needle is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to being accurate.
I've landed in a plane's length or two with a good headwind. TO's are
also pretty rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher thrust line.
The more thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to break ground
so it can overcome the nose being pushed down so much. First TO after swapping
the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought something was wrong
with the airplane because it wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed. Came
back on power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year, get back in the groove,
and possibly make another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014 I
made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This September
would be nice to fly to the Rock House Flyin. I'll know more as the year
progresses, see how I feel and how I feel about taking on another transcontinental
flight. One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have
to fly commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same general
type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make it
appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic |
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:13 PM, B Young wrote:
> Boyd
>
> Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change
> with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall?
> (Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)
>
> Charlie
>
> *************
> I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.
> While at 4200 rpm, and between the stall nibble and stall break, I still
> had good aileron control. I think what is happening. There is an area
> outside the prop arc with no vgs. The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the
> arc. I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first. The
> prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing).
> Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from
> stalling. It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the
> start of vgs that stalls first. Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some
> of that. More vgs and testing needed. But I am not unhappy where I am. A
> little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when
> landing. Kind of like washout built into the wing. I just need to put in
> my pilot hand book, to make the most of that benefit partial is needed.
>
> Boyd
>
Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow due
to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what
prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a
section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc,
without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might get
really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. :-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Charlie E/Kolbers:
One of the reason Homer designed such large ailerons was roll control in
the mush/stall.
All the Kolb models I have flown have the capability of getting into a
mush/stall with the stick full aft in a near level flying attitude with
complete roll control. I think this is something that gets low time
pilots in Kolbs into trouble. They get into a mush/stall and think they
are still flying when they are falling out of the sky and arrive at
Mother Earth with a smack. If the aircraft is kept level, the
mush/stall is a survivable crash. I have seen this happen on several
occasions, both times in US. Yes, I was an eye witness on the ground at
the time. One was my old buddy, Ed (RIP), and the other was a fella in
my US. ;-( I forget what the rate of decent is in my MKIII in a full
mush/stall. The rate of decent of an old (my era) T-10 parachute was 18
FPS, which is 1080 FPM. I'm going to have to go flying to remember what
the rate of decent was in a full mush/stall. I'm thinking 1500 to 2000
FPM. FS and single Kolbs would be less. MKIII falls a lot faster.
Most Kolbs will also climb, full throttle, stick full aft, prop going
into and out of cavitation, and still climbing.
These are some of the reasons I enjoy flying Kolbs. They have been my
aircraft of choice, capable of satisfying my many aviating desires.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Boyd
Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow
due to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what
prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a
section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc,
without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might
get really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. :-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray Cote, who was once
the most successful airplane racer of them all in total number of wins. At my
very first race pilot briefing, the crafty old champion (and former Corsair pilot)
looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember this... old age and treachery will
overcome youth and skill !" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race
course like I was standing still :)
So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood people is worth... Go
for it and make that XC trip at age 75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra
del Fuego in Argentina at 80 !
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM
"John Hauck"
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly
great deal of improvement getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift
struts. Reduced the drag so much I couldn't get slowed
down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft grass strip
with the FS in its original near level configuration.
By going to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up
more of the bottom of the wing to help slow me down on
landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I
could rotate much more than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off
the ground and not in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need
a step stool to get in and out of the airplane. As it
is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get my butt over the
longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the
wing turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in
good shape flying, that is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on
a month or so long cross country, I touch down as the needle
is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to
being accurate. I've landed in a plane's length or two
with a good headwind. TO's are also pretty
rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher
thrust line. The more thrust applied the harder it is
to get the airplane to break ground so it can overcome the
nose being pushed down so much. First TO after
swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I
thought something was wrong with the airplane because it
wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed. Came back on
power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year,
get back in the groove, and possibly make another flight to
the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014 I made a flight to
MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This
September would be nice to fly to the Rock House
Flyin. I'll know more as the year progresses, see how
I feel and how I feel about taking on another
transcontinental flight. One way or the other I'll be
at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have to fly
commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers
show about the same general type of improvements as the VG's
are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts, Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that
adding VG's will make it appropriate to use a longer landing
gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36
inch gear legs. Perhaps when you install the VG's you can
determine/document whether this will allow you to make use
of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO
and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Vgs on my mkiii classic |
Bill B/Kolbers:
I did do the flight to the Rock House at 75, three years ago. Now I'm contemplating
doing it at 78. Of course, contemplating is a long ways from doing.
I'll pass on Mexico and South America. Don't feel comfortable dealing with those
hoodlums. Hell, I have enough problems in CONUS, Canada, and Alaska.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray Cote, who was once
the most successful airplane racer of them all in total number of wins. At my
very first race pilot briefing, the crafty old champion (and former Corsair pilot)
looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember this... old age and treachery will
overcome youth and skill !" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race
course like I was standing still :)
So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood people is worth... Go
for it and make that XC trip at age 75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra
del Fuego in Argentina at 80 !
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM
"John Hauck"
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a truly great deal of improvement
getting it in a good 3 pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined lift struts. Reduced the drag
so much I couldn't get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600
ft grass strip with the FS in its original near level configuration. By going
to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up more of the bottom of
the wing to help slow me down on landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I could rotate much more
than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off the ground and not
in that flat, squatty attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need a step stool to
get in and out of the airplane. As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get
my butt over the longeron to get in the seat. Getting the bottom of the
wing turned up makes a lot of difference. When I am in good shape flying, that
is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on a month or so long cross country, I touch
down as the needle is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is pretty close to
being accurate. I've landed in a plane's length or two with a good headwind.
TO's are also pretty rapid. Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher
thrust line. The more thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to
break ground so it can overcome the nose being pushed down so much. First
TO after swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought
something was wrong with the airplane because it wouldn't break ground at normal
TO speed. Came back on power a little and it popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year, get back in the groove,
and possibly make another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon. 2014
I made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75. This September
would be nice to fly to the Rock House Flyin. I'll know more as the
year progresses, see how I feel and how I feel about taking on another transcontinental
flight. One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb Flyin
if I have to fly commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same
general type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts,
Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make
it appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps
when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow
you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in
TO and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
mojavjoe wrote:
> Richard;
>
> You wouldn't have had to trim your cable ends if you had used this little trick.
It's called spin welding, and it starts by rough cutting the wire cable
aprox. 6in. longer than needed, and then clamping vice grips at the point you
want the cable to end. Next chuck a drill set to its lowest speed setting to the
rigged end of the cable. Since wire cable can be wound clock wise or counter
clock wise set the drill to forward or reverse so the drill will tighten the
wire. Insure the vice grips will not move (put a brick on them or clamp in a
vice). Next heat the wire close to the vice grip jaws to red hot with a torch
slowly tighten the wire with the drill while pulling the drill away. The wire
will break with the ends fused. Sometimes there might be a wire end or two sticking
out of the weld but a file will take care of that.
>
>
Joe - You da Man! Spent today redoing the elevator and rudder control cables, and
despite my best efforts, could not get some of those old wires to go through
the nico sleeves. Remembered this post, and had my brother in law clamp one
side of the extra length of wire in one clamp, I held the other wire in a clamp
and used the torch to get the intervening piece of wire red hot. He twirled
it off, and it slipped through that nico slicker than whiz! Since it was a couple
inches from where we heated it to where we ended up cutting it off, the heat
was not an issue, so my previous misgivings were a non issue. Thank you! :D
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465592#465592
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AD DECKER <adcon4(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming raggedy cable ends |
canceld
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Richard Pike
wrote:
>
>
> mojavjoe wrote:
> > Richard;
> >
> > You wouldn't have had to trim your cable ends if you had used this
> little trick. It's called spin welding, and it starts by rough cutting
> the wire cable aprox. 6in. longer than needed, and then clamping vice grips
> at the point you want the cable to end. Next chuck a drill set to its
> lowest speed setting to the rigged end of the cable. Since wire cable can
> be wound clock wise or counter clock wise set the drill to forward or
> reverse so the drill will tighten the wire. Insure the vice grips will not
> move (put a brick on them or clamp in a vice). Next heat the wire close to
> the vice grip jaws to red hot with a torch slowly tighten the wire with the
> drill while pulling the drill away. The wire will break with the ends
> fused. Sometimes there might be a wire end or two sticking out of the weld
> but a file will take care of that.
> >
> >
>
>
> Joe - You da Man! Spent today redoing the elevator and rudder control
> cables, and despite my best efforts, could not get some of those old wires
> to go through the nico sleeves. Remembered this post, and had my brother in
> law clamp one side of the extra length of wire in one clamp, I held the
> other wire in a clamp and used the torch to get the intervening piece of
> wire red hot. He twirled it off, and it slipped through that nico slicker
> than whiz! Since it was a couple inches from where we heated it to where we
> ended up cutting it off, the heat was not an issue, so my previous
> misgivings were a non issue. Thank you! :D
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465592#465592
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | HKS-700 engine- Kolb guys jump on this! |
Just saw this ad on Barnstormers. Someone on the Kolb group wanting a 4 stroke
engine for their Firestar should jump on this.
HKS700-E $5,000 FOR SALE good running engine w/approx 110 hrs, comes with mount
and cooler, call for more info Contact Glen R. Ruby, Owner - located Treynor
, IA USA Telephone: 402 490 6442 . 712 487 3466 Posted January 29, 2017
Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser Recommend This Ad to a Friend Email
Advertiser Save to Watchlist Report This Ad
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 4:33 PM
"John Hauck"
Bill B/Kolbers:
I did do the flight to the Rock House at 75, three years
ago. Now I'm contemplating doing it at 78. Of
course, contemplating is a long ways from doing.
I'll pass on Mexico and South America. Don't feel
comfortable dealing with those hoodlums. Hell, I have
enough problems in CONUS, Canada, and Alaska.
john h
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 6:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray
Cote, who was once the most successful airplane racer of
them all in total number of wins. At my very first race
pilot briefing, the crafty old champion (and former
Corsair pilot) looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember
this... old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill
!" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race course
like I was standing still :)
So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood
people is worth... Go for it and make that XC trip at age
75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra del Fuego in
Argentina at 80 !
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck
wrote:
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM
"John Hauck"
Bill B/Kolbers:
Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS. Made a
truly great deal of improvement getting it in a good 3
pt stance.
Main reason I went with longer legs was:
-No brakes initially. Made some 4130 streamlined
lift struts. Reduced the drag so much I couldn't
get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600
ft grass strip with the FS in its original near level
configuration. By going to longer legs, a lot longer,
I was able to turn up more of the bottom of the wing
to help slow me down on landing and roll out.
-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because
I could rotate much more than the short legs.
-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose
off the ground and not in that flat, squatty
attitude.
I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would
need a step stool to get in and out of the
airplane. As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6
tire to get my butt over the longeron to get in the
seat. Getting the bottom of the wing turned up
makes a lot of difference. When I am in good
shape flying, that is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or
on a month or so long cross country, I touch down as
the needle is swinging through 30 mph. ASI is
pretty close to being accurate. I've landed in a
plane's length or two with a good headwind. TO's
are also pretty rapid. Problem with TO's is
power verses high pusher thrust line. The more
thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to
break ground so it can overcome the nose being pushed
down so much. First TO after swapping the 80 for
a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought
something was wrong with the airplane because it
wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed. Came back
on power a little and it !
popped right off.
I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this
year, get back in the groove, and possibly make
another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon.
2014 I made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the
ripe old age of 75. This September would be nice
to fly to the Rock House Flyin. I'll know more
as the year progresses, see how I feel and how I feel
about taking on another transcontinental flight.
One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb
Flyin if I have to fly commercial. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Berle
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 12:02 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Vgs on my mkiii classic
Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those
numbers show about the same general type of
improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs,
Taylorcrafts, Cessnas.
I'm glad that they are working for you.
>From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS
that adding VG's will make it appropriate to use a
longer landing gear leg.
John H, I remember you writing that you are now using
36 inch gear legs. Perhaps when you install the VG's
you can determine/document whether this will allow you
to make use of even longer gear legs, and
corresponding reductions in TO and LDG distances ?
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for
non-profit and for-profit entities
--
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying with doors removed KOLB MK 3 Extra |
| From: | "tarnold" <tarnoldza(at)gmail.com> |
Hi chaps,
Thanks for the feedback. I am going with 2 sets of doors. Summer/winter. Need some
wind in the hair.
Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465717#465717
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
we are looking for a kolb flyer for an electric plane. we would also consid
er a lazair ot Mitchellwing =C2-Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair http://michigansportpilotrepair.comLSRM-A, PPC,
WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like Poly-Brush,
so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61 degrees, only 20% chance
of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
Used to love that smell when I'd go down to the basement to check to see how
my project was coming.
Wouldn't mind having a freshly recovered and painted MKIII, but not as long
as the old fabric stays solid.
Recently cleaned house and disposed of a bunch of very old Poly Fiber stuff.
Probably been 12 years since I recovered the upper vertical stabilizer. The
tail post broke within minutes after I returned from my last flight to
Alaska in 2004. I think that is when Dan Horton came up with the idea to go
with outside bracing on the lower tail post. What a great improvement that
was.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 7:32 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Futbawl?
-->
We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like
Poly-Brush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61
degrees, only 20% chance of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Fantastic Richard...
Hard to believe that there are some pieces of the Firefly fuselage
that I gave you in there...? Looks mighty good... You owe me a dollar
menu burger!! :-) Fair trade actually for you gave me the Firestar
wings project.....
I want a Firestar 1 as has been said on this list...will trade my
HKS powered Rans S-14 for a fixer upper....with boot...:-)
I have three 503 engines by the way...Two low time . One 280 to 320
hours...One with electric start but with a challenger II belt drive..
one with a C box... Two of them have under 80 hours...per the folks I
got them from... :-) Off list if anyone is interested....I can explain
why the engines are low time...
Hey...futbawl....I was just about to turn it off...when New England
came alive...2 point game now...!! wow !! Tied game....Herb
On 02/05/2017 07:32 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like Poly-Brush,
so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61 degrees, only 20%
chance of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> |
Hey man, not everyone is watching it live in real time....
On 2/5/2017 9:06 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> Fantastic Richard...
>
> Hard to believe that there are some pieces of the Firefly fuselage
> that I gave you in there...? Looks mighty good... You owe me a dollar
> menu burger!! :-) Fair trade actually for you gave me the Firestar
> wings project.....
>
> I want a Firestar 1 as has been said on this list...will trade my
> HKS powered Rans S-14 for a fixer upper....with boot...:-)
>
> I have three 503 engines by the way...Two low time . One 280 to
> 320 hours...One with electric start but with a challenger II belt
> drive.. one with a C box... Two of them have under 80 hours...per the
> folks I got them from... :-) Off list if anyone is interested....I
> can explain why the engines are low time...
>
> Hey...futbawl....I was just about to turn it off...when New England
> came alive...2 point game now...!! wow !! Tied game....Herb
>
>
> On 02/05/2017 07:32 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>>
>>
>> We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like
>> Poly-Brush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61
>> degrees, only 20% chance of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
>>
>> --------
>> Richard Pike
>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>
>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
I am looking for a Kolb flyer to convert to and electric plane=C2-
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Richard Pike wr
r.net>
We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like Poly-B
rush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61 degrees, onl
y 20% chance of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
Herb I have a rans for taildragger project we could trade
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Herb wrote: --> Kolb-
List message posted by: Herb
Fantastic Richard...
=C2- =C2- Hard to believe that there are some pieces of the Firefly fus
elage
that I gave you in there...?=C2- Looks mighty good... You owe me a dollar
menu burger!! :-)=C2- Fair trade actually for you gave me the Firestar
wings project.....
=C2- =C2- I want a Firestar 1 as has been said on this list...will trad
e my
HKS powered Rans S-14 for a fixer upper....with boot...:-)
=C2- =C2- I have three 503 engines by the way...Two low time . One 280
to 320
hours...One with electric start but with a challenger II belt drive..
one with a C box...=C2- Two of them have under 80 hours...per the folks I
got them from... :-)=C2- Off list if anyone is interested....I can explai
n
why the engines are low time...
=C2- Hey...futbawl....I was just about to turn it off...when New England
came alive...2 point game now...!! wow !!=C2- Tied game....Herb
On 02/05/2017 07:32 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells like Poly
-Brush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm winds, 61 degrees, o
nly 20% chance of rain) will smell like Poly-spray! WooHoo!
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democra
cies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Herb - Burger? I'll buy you a steak! I am having a lot of fun with this project.
With any luck at all it will be in silver tomorrow. Come visit me after it's
done and I'll let you fly it. (No way would I let you fly it at your strip -
I suspect that's how it got busted up in the first place... )
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465824#465824
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Last I know,,Bryan had one or two? Herb
On 02/05/2017 09:21 PM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote:
> I am looking for a Kolb flyer to convert to and electric plane
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Richard Pike
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells
> like Poly-Brush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm
> winds, 61 degrees, only 20% chance of rain) will smell like
> Poly-spray! WooHoo!
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//om/Navigator?Kolb-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato -->
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg>ht
> --> <http://forums.matronics.com>h - List Contribution Web
> Site -http://www.matronic===================
>
>
> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>
> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
My strip? Whoa!! Hold on there...I have flown a dozen planes from my
strip....no problems... but....big but....I got too slow...at about 50
feet on landing...and just barely got the power on and nose up before I
found the ground... not the fault of my 1300 foot strip...which I rarely
use....the 700 footer is just fine... Neither are good for first flights
so I trailer to an airport usually...My next Kolb with have vortex
generators...which likely would not help dumb!!
Herb
On 02/05/2017 09:55 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Herb - Burger? I'll buy you a steak! I am having a lot of fun with this project.
With any luck at all it will be in silver tomorrow. Come visit me after it's
done and I'll let you fly it. (No way would I let you fly it at your strip
- I suspect that's how it got busted up in the first place... )
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465824#465824
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Last I knew....:-) They had one hanging in the hangar at Chestnut Knolls
several years back ...and I think another somewhere? Herb
On 02/05/2017 10:11 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> Last I know,,Bryan had one or two? Herb
>
>
> On 02/05/2017 09:21 PM, Malcolm Brubaker wrote:
>> I am looking for a Kolb flyer to convert to and electric plane
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Richard Pike
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> We ain't got time for no steenk'een futbawl - the garage smells
>> like Poly-Brush, so that tomorrow the side yard (forecast: calm
>> winds, 61 degrees, only 20% chance of rain) will smell like
>> Poly-spray! WooHoo!
>>
>> --------
>> Richard Pike
>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>
>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465816#465816
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//om/Navigator?Kolb-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato -->
>> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050678_medium_825.jpg>ht
>> --> <http://forums.matronics.com>h - List Contribution Web
>> Site -http://www.matronic===================
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>>
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com>
>
> --
> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
>
> Aristotle
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dusted off the mkiii |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Dusted off the mkiii |
Looks cold in the valley.
Nice photo.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:47 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Dusted off the mkiii
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Schneider" <jwaynes(at)gmail.com> |
Hello fellow fliers,
I've been lurking here for a few months and thought I should introduce myse
lf. =C2-Name is Wayne Schneider and I live in Utah where the air is thick
and cold, lol. =C2-
Last summer I purchased N359RT which is a modified Twinstar Mark II with a
Rotax 532. =C2-Yes, you read that correctly, it's the predecessor to the
582. =C2-SIngle ignition but otherwise very much the same. =C2-
Unfortunately, it has a WarpDrive propeller whose MMI is too much for the A
gearbox so I'll be swapping that out before summer. =C2-And, I need to d
o a complete inspection. =C2-Does anybody need a slightly used 3 blade 68
" prop?
New guy,
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New from Utah |
I have a power fin 3 blade that would work on the a box
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Wayne Schneider wrote
: Hello fellow fliers,
I've been lurking here for a few months and thought I should introduce myse
lf. =C2-Name is Wayne Schneider and I live in Utah where the air is thick
and cold, lol. =C2-Last summer I purchased N359RT which is a modified Tw
instar Mark II with a Rotax 532. =C2-Yes, you read that correctly, it's t
he predecessor to the 582. =C2-SIngle ignition but otherwise very much th
e same. =C2-
Unfortunately, it has a WarpDrive propeller whose MMI is too much for the A
gearbox so I'll be swapping that out before summer. =C2-And, I need to d
o a complete inspection. =C2-Does anybody need a slightly used 3 blade 68
" prop?
New guy,Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New from Utah |
Sorry. But mine is a tractor. So it won't work=C2-
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Malcolm Brubaker
wrote: I have a power fin 3 blade that would work on the a box
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Wayne Schneider wrote
: Hello fellow fliers,
I've been lurking here for a few months and thought I should introduce myse
lf. =C2-Name is Wayne Schneider and I live in Utah where the air is thick
and cold, lol. =C2-Last summer I purchased N359RT which is a modified Tw
instar Mark II with a Rotax 532. =C2-Yes, you read that correctly, it's t
he predecessor to the 582. =C2-SIngle ignition but otherwise very much th
e same. =C2-
Unfortunately, it has a WarpDrive propeller whose MMI is too much for the A
gearbox so I'll be swapping that out before summer. =C2-And, I need to d
o a complete inspection. =C2-Does anybody need a slightly used 3 blade 68
" prop?
New guy,Wayne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Finished the Poly-Spray about ten minutes before the first rain drops got here.
Might need to put a bit more on. We'll see.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465852#465852
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050679_medium_348.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage regulator |
My voltage regulator went south the other day. It has been intermittent
for some time. The replacement cost is 175.00. Has anyone found a suitable
replacement for the 912?
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage regulator |
Got the Ducati part number?
Start searching Google for a better price than Rotax.
Post it on the Kolb List and I'll help you look for one.
Don't recommend using anything but an exact replacement. I am sure
912's are not the only engines out there using this reg/rec. Many years
ago I replaced the Reg/Rec on my 80 hp 912 with a Key West. It didn't
last from Alabama to Oshkosh that year.
An example of searching for Rotax parts. Doesn't take long to go
through spark plug caps. Rotax wanted 28.00 each. I got the part
number off the cap, went to sparkplug.com and was able to find the exact
replacement for about 6.75 each.
I do the same for Rotax 25.00 oil fil. Rotax says I'll fall out of the
sky if I use any other brand, especially Fram. In over 3,000.0 hours I
have run 3 Rotax fils, the three that came on the three 912's I have
run. I run Fram TG3614 oil fils with excellent results. Pay less than
5.00 at Wal-Mart.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 10:56 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Voltage regulator
My voltage regulator went south the other day. It has been
intermittent for some time. The replacement cost is 175.00. Has anyone
found a suitable replacement for the 912?
Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Voltage regulator |
Ducati 343620
The instructions say not to disconnect the battery cable while the engine
is running... I think my problems started when I had a switch fail.
Boyd
On Feb 6, 2017 10:34 PM, "John Hauck" wrote:
> Got the Ducati part number?
>
>
> Start searching Google for a better price than Rotax.
>
>
> Post it on the Kolb List and I'll help you look for one.
>
>
> Don't recommend using anything but an exact replacement. I am sure 912's
> are not the only engines out there using this reg/rec. Many years ago I
> replaced the Reg/Rec on my 80 hp 912 with a Key West. It didn't last from
> Alabama to Oshkosh that year.
>
>
> An example of searching for Rotax parts. Doesn't take long to go through
> spark plug caps. Rotax wanted 28.00 each. I got the part number off the
> cap, went to sparkplug.com and was able to find the exact replacement for
> about 6.75 each.
>
>
> I do the same for Rotax 25.00 oil fil. Rotax says I'll fall out of the
> sky if I use any other brand, especially Fram. In over 3,000.0 hours I
> have run 3 Rotax fils, the three that came on the three 912's I have run.
> I run Fram TG3614 oil fils with excellent results. Pay less than 5.00 at
> Wal-Mart.
>
>
> john h
>
> mkIII
>
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
> *From:* owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *B Young
> *Sent:* Monday, February 06, 2017 10:56 PM
> *To:* Kolb List
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Voltage regulator
>
>
> My voltage regulator went south the other day. It has been intermittent
> for some time. The replacement cost is 175.00. Has anyone found a suitable
> replacement for the 912?
> Boyd
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | looking for KOLB Mark III |
| From: | "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> |
I am located in southern California, my cell is 818 665-9421
Thank you,
Jimmy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465996#465996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: looking for KOLB Mark III |
Hello, Jimmy! I lived in SoCal for 43 years. Riverside area. Now reside in northern
lower Michigan. I own an original Firestar that's still store out there.
Will bring it back here in April. I have built and flown a Kolb Twinstar MK ll.
Great airplane. The Mark lll was just making an appearance on the seen at that
time, early 90's. It has a great reputation, but pretty hard find a good one
for sale. Keep looking or better yet build one! Thanks George
Have a great day!
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:14 AM, jonealjr wrote:
>
>
> I am located in southern California, my cell is 818 665-9421
>
> Thank you,
> Jimmy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465996#465996
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: looking for KOLB Mark III |
| From: | Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
George, I aint Jimmy. Im Russ and I live in Maine. Good luck
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:59 AM, George Helton wrote:
>
>
> Hello, Jimmy! I lived in SoCal for 43 years. Riverside area. Now reside in northern
lower Michigan. I own an original Firestar that's still store out there.
Will bring it back here in April. I have built and flown a Kolb Twinstar MK
ll. Great airplane. The Mark lll was just making an appearance on the seen at
that time, early 90's. It has a great reputation, but pretty hard find a good
one for sale. Keep looking or better yet build one! Thanks George
>
> Have a great day!
>
>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 9:14 AM, jonealjr wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am located in southern California, my cell is 818 665-9421
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Jimmy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465996#465996
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: looking for KOLB Mark III |
| From: | "Frankd" <FDucker(at)aol.com> |
Hello Jimmy,
Would you be interested in a Kolb MkIII Xtra?
My Xtra is available as I have another project I am working on.
It has a Jabiru 2200 and I have approx 100Hrs on the aircraft.
It has the longer steel legs and EFIS and ICOM a220 and a transponder.
I can sell the plane without the engine, if that would interest you. I also could
sell a trailer with the aircraft.
I hanger and fly the plane in Hollister, Ca.
If interested pls email me at fducker(at)aol.com or (408)802-4896.
I'm not in a hurry to sell, the plane is very fun to Fly, I just have too many
toys.
FrankD
N1014S, MkIII Xtra.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466056#466056
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some
bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a
try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated
disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including
shipping. At that price, why not?
First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty
light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.
The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting the
mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded
a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to
be really good!
This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they don't
tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com> |
Very nice Job! I had originally bought a set of the bicycle brakes for my Firefly
but ended up giving up and going withe the way too expensive hydraulic brakes.
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466083#466083
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
Kolb flyer please, =C2- i am loomi g for a kolb flyer . I would like to c
onvert it to a electric plane
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Richard Pike w
er.net>
While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us
some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that
idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable
operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear
) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?
First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually p
retty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.
The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getti
ng the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we c
ould, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout tur
ned out to be really good!
This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping th
ey don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the whee
ls.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Richard...you do good work.. :-)
I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a set of very
true aluminum ones for the second...Having a lathe allowed me to turn a
spool..and move the rear wheel bearing into it..I then made a calliper
holder that attached to the big washer that comes welded to the Firefly
axle... By the time that I built the second set...I had collected 4 or 5
sets of front disk brakes from my favorite place to shop, the salvage
yard.....Little ugly with one cable facing the front of the calliper and
the other to the rear..
One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much stretch if
it is of small diameter.. My first set were shimano since my son worked
for an outdoors company..They were a little pricy...39 dollars... Others
, I get for a buck or two..
Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese offer
hydraulic versions ... My trouble with hydraulics over the years...is
there are usually leaks...:-) Though I replaced 3 out of 4 brake lines
on my old Crown Vic...nary a leak! Getting better with age I guess..
though other things leak!! :-) Herb
On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some
bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea
a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated
disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including
shipping. At that price, why not?
> First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty
light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.
> The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting
the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could,
welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out
to be really good!
> This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they
don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
Although I don't have any thing directly to contribute to this thread, I
would like to make an observation concerning Hydraulic and friction brakes.
I recently went through a rather lengthy process of changing from friction
to Hydraulic, and thanks to contributions from John Hauck, John Bickham and
the special help from Boyd eventually made the change over.
I had originally changed the stock 4 inch drum brakes to 5 inch O'Brian
drum brakes which had been set up to individual hand brakes on the stick. I
thought that the Hyd. would give me more braking, so I decided to change. I
put a substantial chunk of change into the conversion, not to mention a lot
of time. The finished product is actually no better than what I had, plus
the potential for maintenance problems are much higher. I am just glad that
I had such good friends or I would have been severely disappointed, both
mentally and financially. Would I do it again- NOPE!
FWIW
Larry
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Herb wrote:
>
> Richard...you do good work.. :-)
>
> I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a set of very true
> aluminum ones for the second...Having a lathe allowed me to turn a
> spool..and move the rear wheel bearing into it..I then made a calliper
> holder that attached to the big washer that comes welded to the Firefly
> axle... By the time that I built the second set...I had collected 4 or 5
> sets of front disk brakes from my favorite place to shop, the salvage
> yard.....Little ugly with one cable facing the front of the calliper and
> the other to the rear..
>
> One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much stretch if it
> is of small diameter.. My first set were shimano since my son worked for an
> outdoors company..They were a little pricy...39 dollars... Others , I get
> for a buck or two..
>
> Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese offer hydraulic
> versions ... My trouble with hydraulics over the years...is there are
> usually leaks...:-) Though I replaced 3 out of 4 brake lines on my old
> Crown Vic...nary a leak! Getting better with age I guess.. though other
> things leak!! :-) Herb
>
>
> On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed
>> us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give
>> that idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle
>> cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front &
>> rear) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?
>> First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually
>> pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.
>> The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was
>> getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best
>> we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout
>> turned out to be really good!
>> This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping
>> they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the
>> wheels.
>>
>> --------
>> Richard Pike
>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>>
>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine
> democracies give way to tyranny."
>
> Aristotle
>
>
--
*The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of
others.*
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Thanks for the comments. We had originally thought of skipping brakes to save weight.
Then considered rigging a small lever pad to push on the tail wheel, just
to keep it from rolling along on a paved ramp when the engine is at idle. If
we did that, we would obviously be going with absolute minimal weight & brakes.
And if it comes out really close to Part 103 specs, and needs just 2 or 3
pounds less to make the difference, we may end up going with that.
We are not expecting these brakes to be real great, OTOH if it turns out to be
a real U/L, it shouldn't need much brakes.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466092#466092
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Thanks for the comments. We had originally thought of skipping brakes to save weight.
Then considered rigging a small lever pad to push on the tail wheel, just
to keep it from rolling along on a paved ramp when the engine is at idle. If
we did that, we would obviously be going with absolute minimal weight & brakes.
And if it comes out really close to Part 103 specs, and needs just 2 or 3
pounds less to make the difference, we may end up going with that.
We are not expecting these brakes to be real great, OTOH if it turns out to be
a real U/L, it shouldn't need much brakes.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466093#466093
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Larry
I have a set of Hydraulic Tracy O'Brien floating disk brakes on my J3
Kitten...Seems as if they are 5 to 600 bucks? Is that similar ? I
didn't buy them however..:-) By now you guys likely know that!!
I can handle the physical part but the mental part would put me in
company with guys in white jackets!! :-)
With the Firefly...all I wanted them to do was to hold up to 4500 to
5k rpm on runup. beyond that , they would allow the Fly to creep.
Originally, I had independent heel brakes, for it was always
embarrassing to stop at the end of a
narrow field, get out and lift the tail boom... I had trouble landing
with the brakes on...so I went back to a lever on the joystick.. The
heel brakes cost me a scratch and dent nose cone..Travis had one where
the instrument panel had
debonded..100 bucks...Miss ole Travis!! :-) worked out great for I
could remove the panel very easily... always a full enclosure on my
flys...and they usually came in around 290...lbs
Travis was true salesman...I rarely left there with the same amount
of hundred dollar bills that I had when I came ...On the way. home...I
would say...now!! why did I buy that?? :-) Herb
On 02/12/2017 06:23 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
> Although I don't have any thing directly to contribute to this thread,
> I would like to make an observation concerning Hydraulic and friction
> brakes. I recently went through a rather lengthy process of changing
> from friction to Hydraulic, and thanks to contributions from John
> Hauck, John Bickham and the special help from Boyd eventually made the
> change over.
>
> I had originally changed the stock 4 inch drum brakes to 5 inch
> O'Brian drum brakes which had been set up to individual hand brakes on
> the stick. I thought that the Hyd. would give me more braking, so I
> decided to change. I put a substantial chunk of change into the
> conversion, not to mention a lot of time. The finished product is
> actually no better than what I had, plus the potential for maintenance
> problems are much higher. I am just glad that I had such good friends
> or I would have been severely disappointed, both mentally and
> financially. Would I do it again- NOPE!
>
> FWIW
> Larry
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Herb > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Richard...you do good work.. :-)
>
> I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a set of
> very true aluminum ones for the second...Having a lathe allowed
> me to turn a spool..and move the rear wheel bearing into it..I
> then made a calliper holder that attached to the big washer that
> comes welded to the Firefly axle... By the time that I built the
> second set...I had collected 4 or 5 sets of front disk brakes from
> my favorite place to shop, the salvage yard.....Little ugly with
> one cable facing the front of the calliper and the other to the rear..
>
> One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much stretch
> if it is of small diameter.. My first set were shimano since my
> son worked for an outdoors company..They were a little pricy...39
> dollars... Others , I get for a buck or two..
>
> Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese offer
> hydraulic versions ... My trouble with hydraulics over the
> years...is there are usually leaks...:-) Though I replaced 3
> out of 4 brake lines on my old Crown Vic...nary a leak! Getting
> better with age I guess.. though other things leak!! :-) Herb
>
>
> On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> >
>
> While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage,
> he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with,
> and we decided to give that idea a try. If you look on ebay,
> there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated disc brake
> sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for
> $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?
> First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow
> wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in
> real bearings.
> The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set
> did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler
> shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a mounting plate
> on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to be
> really good!
> This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip,
> just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds
> total weight weight to the wheels.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg>
>
>
> --
> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and
> feminine democracies give way to tyranny."
>
> Aristotle
>
> ===================================
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===================================
> b Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> --
> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant
> of others./
> /
> /
> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
> address before sending./
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Richard
Guess Bryan has told you all the tricks to make 103.. 4 inch nylon
wheels,very light, wooden prop,second coat of poly brush mixed with
similar amount of Poly spray... so on ..
Not all that sure...but it may be that the original Firefly used .028
cro molly? I think it is all 035 now? The leading and trailing edge
aluminum on the Ultra star was quite thin...most of the hinge attach
points would have a pucker outward . Noticeable when rebuilding...
Likely not used on the first Fireflys however...
Jack Hart is the authority on this subject..saving an ounce here and
there...Herb
On 02/12/2017 06:51 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments. We had originally thought of skipping brakes to save
weight. Then considered rigging a small lever pad to push on the tail wheel,
just to keep it from rolling along on a paved ramp when the engine is at idle.
If we did that, we would obviously be going with absolute minimal weight & brakes.
And if it comes out really close to Part 103 specs, and needs just 2 or
3 pounds less to make the difference, we may end up going with that.
> We are not expecting these brakes to be real great, OTOH if it turns out to be
a real U/L, it shouldn't need much brakes.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
>
> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466093#466093
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Firefly brakes |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
brubakermal(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Kolb flyer please, I am looking for a kolb flyer . I would like to convert it
to a electric plane
>
[/quote]
Here ye be Mal - always glad to help: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UltraLight-Ultra-Light-Aircraft-Airplane-Twin-Engine-Possible-KOLB-Flyer-/302220414386?hash=item465dbd8db2:g:1bkAAOSwjDZYiAlV&vxp=mtr
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466103#466103
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee" <lmorgan100(at)charter.net> |
I put a set of Chinese hydraulic bike brakes on a Kolb Twinstar MKII 2 years
ago on the same rims that you used. I also replaced the bearings with some
good ones and also added an extra bearing on each wheel. The brakes have
worked great with a lot of stopping power.
Lee.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly brakes
While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us
some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that
idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable
operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear)
for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?
First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually
pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.
The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was
getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best
we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout
turned out to be really good!
This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping
they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the
wheels.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tipper <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Brother Pike and all
Here is the Firefly I finished last year... Best one that I have
built...I usually have at least one small flaw , what I call a "Herb
Up"..but not this time...:-) This one went to an airport in Ill and
the Kolb drivers over there said it was near factory in build .. then
you guys recall...the buyer dug a wing in on take off and went took it
over on its back..
Herb (who may have posted this pic and nearly same message
before...).:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
Loox like the guard dog was asleep!
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 9:48 PM, tipper wrote:
>
> Brother Pike and all
>
> Here is the Firefly I finished last year... Best one that I have built...I
usually have at least one small flaw , what I call a "Herb Up"..but not this
time...:-) This one went to an airport in Ill and the Kolb drivers over there
said it was near factory in build .. then you guys recall...the buyer dug
a wing in on take off and went took it over on its back..
> Herb (who may have posted this pic and nearly same message before...).:-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
Wow, very pretty little airplane!
Have a great day!
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 9:48 PM, tipper wrote:
>
> Brother Pike and all
>
> Here is the Firefly I finished last year... Best one that I have built...I
usually have at least one small flaw , what I call a "Herb Up"..but not this
time...:-) This one went to an airport in Ill and the Kolb drivers over there
said it was near factory in build .. then you guys recall...the buyer dug
a wing in on take off and went took it over on its back..
> Herb (who may have posted this pic and nearly same message before...).:-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | tipper <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Semi stealth mode...:-) They are real killers...:-) Herb
On 02/14/2017 09:40 PM, Russ Kinne wrote:
>
> Loox like the guard dog was asleep!
>
>> On Feb 14, 2017, at 9:48 PM, tipper wrote:
>>
>> Brother Pike and all
>>
>> Here is the Firefly I finished last year... Best one that I have built...I
usually have at least one small flaw , what I call a "Herb Up"..but not this
time...:-) This one went to an airport in Ill and the Kolb drivers over
there said it was near factory in build .. then you guys recall...the buyer dug
a wing in on take off and went took it over on its back..
>> Herb (who may have posted this pic and nearly same message before...).:-)
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: motor mounts |
| From: | "rayring" <rayring(at)windstream.net> |
after all this time would you still have 4 motor mounts for a 503 going on a
mark III classic. trying to beat the price of new ones?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466250#466250
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com> |
ok I know this is going to be a really stupid question but I was thinking of going
to the enclosed front on my Firefly. How does one fuel this beautiful plane?
does the other side have a hinged doorway? I keep a back pack strapped behind
the fuel tank could I still access it?
Also is it sealed behind the seat?
it also appears open to the side of the pilot, does this still offer wind protection
(it's cold here in MN.)
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466298#466298
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | tipper <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Fuel? Easy before the wings are unfolded....afterward...use a long hose
and fuel from the front...
Little to no wind with the "full" enclosure...Not sealed behind the
pilot...Though my last one was...It came to me with the fuselage covered
and modified...Had a nice tray behind the 10 gal fuel tank...Naturally,
I marked the 5 gal level...:-) The right side has a door that opens to
access the fuel and carry ons...oil, tie downs.etc.. Herb
On 02/16/2017 04:39 PM, west1m wrote:
>
> ok I know this is going to be a really stupid question but I was thinking of
going to the enclosed front on my Firefly. How does one fuel this beautiful plane?
does the other side have a hinged doorway? I keep a back pack strapped behind
the fuel tank could I still access it?
> Also is it sealed behind the seat?
> it also appears open to the side of the pilot, does this still offer wind protection
(it's cold here in MN.)
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466298#466298
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | tipper <herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
Here it is with the door open...nice tray...Herb
On 02/16/2017 04:39 PM, west1m wrote:
>
> ok I know this is going to be a really stupid question but I was thinking of
going to the enclosed front on my Firefly. How does one fuel this beautiful plane?
does the other side have a hinged doorway? I keep a back pack strapped behind
the fuel tank could I still access it?
> Also is it sealed behind the seat?
> it also appears open to the side of the pilot, does this still offer wind protection
(it's cold here in MN.)
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466298#466298
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com> |
Nice tray, I just have a backpack back there.
but I am curious about the ten gallon tank, is that something available that fits
into the existing hole? something Kolb carries?
--------
West1m
Hastings, MN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466318#466318
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| Subject: | Re: motor mounts |
| From: | "rayring" <rayring(at)windstream.net> |
Carolina Flyer wrote:
> Herb, I have them. Do you need 4
I am looking for 4 mounts for mark III with a 503. Do you still have some
and what would be the cost? Ray Ring in Hahira, Ga.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466320#466320
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| Subject: | Re: Last Firefly |
| From: | Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> |
I think they come from Quad cities...Herb
On 02/16/2017 08:12 PM, west1m wrote:
>
> Nice tray, I just have a backpack back there.
> but I am curious about the ten gallon tank, is that something available that
fits into the existing hole? something Kolb carries?
>
> --------
> West1m
> Hastings, MN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466318#466318
>
>
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies
give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
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| From: | Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net> |
| Subject: | Building Brake Bleeder...ABS vs PCV |
Hello Kolbers,
The November 2016 issue of Kit Plane magazine has an article about building a Homemade
Compressed Air Brake Bleeder which seems to this neophyte brake installer
like a good idea. The directions call for building the reservoir out of 3
PVC pipe. Without traveling 50 plus mile, all that is available locally is 3 ABS.
I wonder if there is a plastics expert in the group that can tell me of a
reason not to build this pressurized reservoir out of ABS pipe?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, Ak
607AK
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| Subject: | Re: Building Brake Bleeder...ABS vs PCV |
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Got a Harbor Freight in Palmer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIuj2a6tx6Y
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466400#466400
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FLYING MARK III XTRAs ON THE WEST COAST |
| From: | "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Guys,
I am VERY interested in purchasing a MARK III XTRA . I have a few in my sights
now but, I would like to go up in one before I pull the trigger. I am a sport
Pilot and I am happy to pay for some Gas and a steak dinner if someone is willing
to take me up. I am located in Simi Valley, Ca (Southern California) Please
Let me know if anyone can help me out. I currently fly a Quicksilver Sport
II and fly 2-4 times a week. My cell is 818 665-9421 please call or text or email
jonealjr(at)gmail.com
Thank you
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466409#466409
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| From: | william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building Brake Bleeder...ABS vs PCV |
You could try it, but a couple of cautions. Check the ABS, and make sure brake
fluid doesn't dissolve it or soften it. Keep your air pressure low- ABS is
usually used for drain lines, and I don't know what suction will do. I think
it will work. I watched Richard Pike's link to the Harbor Freight bleeder, and
I think you ought to order one.
Bill Sullivan
Hello Kolbers,
The November 2016 issue of Kit Plane magazine has an article
about building a Homemade Compressed Air Brake Bleeder
which seems to this neophyte brake installer like a good
idea. The directions call for building the reservoir out of
3 PVC pipe. Without traveling 50 plus mile, all that
is available locally is 3 ABS. I wonder if there is a
plastics expert in the group that can tell me of a reason
not to build this pressurized reservoir out of ABS pipe?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Nick Cassara
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LOOKING TO GO UP IN A KOLB MARK III ON THE WEST COAST |
| From: | "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Guys,
I am VERY interested in purchasing a MARK III XTRA . I have a few in my sights
now but, I would like to go up in one before I pull the trigger. I am a sport
Pilot and I am happy to pay for some Gas and a steak dinner if someone is willing
to take me up. I am located in Simi Valley, Ca (Southern California) Please
Let me know if anyone can help me out. I currently fly a Quicksilver Sport II
and fly 2-4 times a week. My cell is 818 665-9421 please call or text or email
jonealjr(at)gmail.com
Thank you
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466465#466465
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING TO GO UP IN A KOLB MARK III ON THE WEST COAST |
| From: | Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com> |
Jonealjr
everyone will tell you the same thing, but get it FIRMLY set in your brain that
Kolbs slow down FAST and getting too slow will bite you.
Not the planes fault.
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, jonealjr wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> I am VERY interested in purchasing a MARK III XTRA . I have a few in my sights
now but, I would like to go up in one before I pull the trigger. I am a sport
Pilot and I am happy to pay for some Gas and a steak dinner if someone is willing
to take me up. I am located in Simi Valley, Ca (Southern California) Please
Let me know if anyone can help me out. I currently fly a Quicksilver Sport
II and fly 2-4 times a week. My cell is 818 665-9421 please call or text or email
jonealjr(at)gmail.com
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466465#466465
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brad Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LOOKING TO GO UP IN A KOLB MARK III ON THE WEST COAST |
That=99s for sure. They are high drag low inertia planes.
Brad
___________________________
=9CFreedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought
for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we
will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's
children what it was once like in the United States where men were
free.=9D
-- President Ronald Reagan
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:13 , jonealjr wrote:
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> I am VERY interested in purchasing a MARK III XTRA . I have a few in
my sights now but, I would like to go up in one before I pull the
trigger. I am a sport Pilot and I am happy to pay for some Gas and a
steak dinner if someone is willing to take me up. I am located in Simi
Valley, Ca (Southern California) Please Let me know if anyone can help
me out. I currently fly a Quicksilver Sport II and fly 2-4 times a week.
My cell is 818 665-9421 please call or text or email
jonealjr(at)gmail.com
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466465#466465
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: second chantz chutes |
| From: | "Nosbod" <jbdpad(at)gmail.com> |
This is for Crankpot.
I was wondering how you made out with John Dunham second chantz parachutes.
The reason i'm asking I have the same problem. Unfortunately I didn't find this
web site until after the fact so he has my chute and my 1500.00 dollars, and
he doesn't answer e-mails or phone.
I'v got in touch with Better Business Bureau in Carson City, logged a complaint
against second chantz parachutes and they are looking into this matter.
Carson City Sheriffs Department won't take Fraud reports over the phone or e-mail
so I will wait to hear from the BBB.
If all else fails I will be driving down to Carson City to log a Fraud Complaint
with Carson City Sheriff Department.
I have also considered small claims court but I doubt he has any money if he is
pulling stunts like this.
I would rather see his ass in jail.
--------
If it takes full throttle to taxi to your hanger then you probably have your wheels
up. The only time you have to much gas is when you are on fire.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466543#466543
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| Subject: | Re: second chantz chutes |
| From: | "flywithme" <constrjh(at)pldi.net> |
I think since he has used email and is across state lines and you mailed him a
check that he cashed you can involve the US Postal inspector. and they Will get
his attention. i had to do this once on an Ebay fraud and it worked.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466602#466602
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> |
Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook up a
Hobbs meter. We already have one that came with the wreck that shows the actual
time of the 447, and our current panel has a cutout for it.
But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how?
Here's a couple pictures - engine is on the mounts, piddling with the panel. Pictures
are not that great. At least they are not too big...
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466606#466606
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December 19, 2016 - February 24, 2017
Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ok