Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-ol

February 24, 2017 - April 03, 2017



      
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Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Hey Richard... Looking super!! Mig or tig? Herb On 02/24/2017 04:55 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook up a Hobbs meter. We already have one that came with the wreck that shows the actual time of the 447, and our current panel has a cutout for it. > But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how? > > Here's a couple pictures - engine is on the mounts, piddling with the panel. Pictures are not that great. At least they are not too big... > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466606#466606 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050711_medium_436.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050710_medium_195.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Hobbs meter?
Date: Feb 24, 2017
If it is an actual Hobbs Hour Meter it should be good for 112 to 60 vdc. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:55 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Hobbs meter? --> Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook up a Hobbs meter. We already have one that came with the wreck that shows the actual time of the 447, and our current panel has a cutout for it. But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how? Here's a couple pictures - engine is on the mounts, piddling with the panel. Pictures are not that great. At least they are not too big... -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466606#466606 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050711_medium_436.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050710_medium_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Hobbs meter?
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Had a typo in my last msg. Should have read 12-60vdc. john -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 5:18 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Hobbs meter? If it is an actual Hobbs Hour Meter it should be good for 112 to 60 vdc. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:55 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Hobbs meter? --> Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook up a Hobbs meter. We already have one that came with the wreck that shows the actual time of the 447, and our current panel has a cutout for it. But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how? Here's a couple pictures - engine is on the mounts, piddling with the panel. Pictures are not that great. At least they are not too big... -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466606#466606 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050711_medium_436.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050710_medium_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Richard Pike wrote: > (SNIP)Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook up a Hobbs meter. (SNIP) > > But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how? > Richard: Can't remember the size/value, but I had a setup like you want using a small diode/rectifier (from Radio Shack) and picked up the lighting coil. Like John Hauck said, the Hobbs doesn't require a precise voltage level or pure DC. Worth what you paid for it as always.... -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://www.oh2fly.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466614#466614 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
Look for a battery powered Timer Boyd On Feb 24, 2017 3:57 PM, "Richard Pike" wrote: > > Not planning any electrical system for the Firefly, but would like to hook > up a Hobbs meter. We already have one that came with the wreck that shows > the actual time of the 447, and our current panel has a cutout for it. > But I do not know how to make it work w/o a 12V system. Anybody know how? > > Here's a couple pictures - engine is on the mounts, piddling with the > panel. Pictures are not that great. At least they are not too big... > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466606#466606 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050711_medium_436.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050710_medium_195.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Neglected to mention in the original post that this is the original 1985 model 447 that came with a new (1985) Firestar back in the day, so it has the single points ignition/lighting coil/charging coil. Also - since the earlier post, started cutting apart the original wiring harness and discovered a diode with obvious connectors that would hook up to the Hobbs/hour meter. I am guessing I would attach those to the charging coil rather than the lighting coil, because all I want is the pulse, and not a lot of voltage. Also, I assume that if I hook it up to the hour meter and nothing happens, since it is a diode, all I need to do is swap the connectors? Thanks for all the help so far! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466617#466617 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
On 2/24/2017 8:07 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Neglected to mention in the original post that this is the original 1985 model 447 that came with a new (1985) Firestar back in the day, so it has the single points ignition/lighting coil/charging coil. > Also - since the earlier post, started cutting apart the original wiring harness and discovered a diode with obvious connectors that would hook up to the Hobbs/hour meter. I am guessing I would attach those to the charging coil rather than the lighting coil, because all I want is the pulse, and not a lot of voltage. Also, I assume that if I hook it up to the hour meter and nothing happens, since it is a diode, all I need to do is swap the connectors? > Thanks for all the help so far! > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Richard, I can't really see what model you've got, but all the actual Hobbs meters I've ever played with are simple clocks, that run when you apply voltage (for instance, through an oil pressure switch, or a landing gear 'squat switch'). Are you thinking about something like a Tiny Tach, that has its own battery but senses ignition pulses? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
Tiny Tach is great, I have one on my MKIII, but it is bigger than a Hobbs, and we need something to cover the hole where the original Hobbs was in the panel. No way the Tiny Tach will fit. Not to mention that I would need to figure out how to add 216 hours to it.... Talked to the original owner of our Firestar a while ago, and he seemed to remember that he got that diode from Kolb, and they told him how to hook it up. But he wasn't sure... (Grin) Will try hooking the Hobbs up to the charging coil, through the diode, and see what happens. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466619#466619 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050713_medium_189.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2017
I didn't think that was a pic of a Tiny Tach, but I wondered if your mixing up how the two devices function. Good luck with it, Charlie On 2/24/2017 9:08 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Tiny Tach is great, I have one on my MKIII, but it is bigger than a Hobbs, and we need something to cover the hole where the original Hobbs was in the panel. No way the Tiny Tach will fit. Not to mention that I would need to figure out how to add 216 hours to it.... > Talked to the original owner of our Firestar a while ago, and he seemed to remember that he got that diode from Kolb, and they told him how to hook it up. But he wasn't sure... (Grin) > Will try hooking the Hobbs up to the charging coil, through the diode, and see what happens. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2017
From: dickk9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
Along with the diode, a full wave bridge would be better, you should connec t a capacitor (22mf 180v) across the output to filter the pulses. Dick=C2- -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 11:28 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Hobbs meter? I didn't think that was a pic of a Tiny Tach, but I wondered if your mixing up how the two devices function. Good luck with it, Charlie On 2/24/2017 9:08 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > Tiny Tach is great, I have one on my MKIII, but it is bigger than a Hobbs , and we need something to cover the hole where the original Hobbs was in t he panel. No way the Tiny Tach will fit. Not to mention that I would need t o figure out how to add 216 hours to it.... > Talked to the original owner of our Firestar a while ago, and he seemed t o remember that he got that diode from Kolb, and they told him how to hook it up. But he wasn't sure... (Grin) > Will try hooking the Hobbs up to the charging coil, through the diode, an d see what happens. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 25, 2017
dickk9(at)aol.com wrote: > Along with the diode, a full wave bridge would be better, you should connect a capacitor (22mf 180v) across the output to filter the pulses. > Dick > -- OK, I think I know what you are saying, but you are talking to an electronics Hottentot. Really. Do I just go to the local electronics supply store and ask for such? And then attach it between the connectors? Thanks! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466652#466652 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: "Nosbod" <jbdpad(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
Hi Guys Thanks for the input. It's not just across state lines it's across country since I'm in Canada. I talked to the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and they took a report and Dunham Is now on file in Canada. The RCMP talked to Carson City Sheriff Dept. although they wouldn't give out a whole bunch of information they did inform the RCMP that Dunham was known to them. Since the check was cashed in Carson City I will have to go to Carson City to file a complaint. I don't have a problem with this because I have never been to Carson City so it's one more thing I can cross off my bucket list. I will contact the US Postal Authority and talk to them to see if they can help. The thing is it's not just the money but he also has the chute. -------- If it takes full throttle to taxi to your hanger then you probably have your wheels up. The only time you have to much gas is when you are on fire. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466661#466661 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I guess...? :-) I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb On 02/26/2017 08:12 AM, Nosbod wrote: > > Hi Guys > > Thanks for the input. It's not just across state lines it's across country since I'm in Canada. I talked to the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and they took a report and Dunham Is now on file in Canada. > > The RCMP talked to Carson City Sheriff Dept. although they wouldn't give out a whole bunch of information they did inform the RCMP that Dunham was known to them. Since the check was cashed in Carson City I will have to go to Carson City to file a complaint. > > I don't have a problem with this because I have never been to Carson City so it's one more thing I can cross off my bucket list. > > I will contact the US Postal Authority and talk to them to see if they can help. > The thing is it's not just the money but he also has the chute. > > -------- > If it takes full throttle to taxi to your hanger then you probably have your wheels up. The only time you have to much gas is when you are on fire. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466661#466661 > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
Subject: Full wave rectifier
If you are considering installing a full wave rectifier (fwr). First check the voltage output of the power source. Then find a fwr that has a higher voltage rating. The fwr will have 4 connections , one marked (+) one (-) , the other two will be marked ac , input, or (~) .... Connect the two ~ to the lighting coil. Connect the + - to a capacitor , if it is an electrolytic capacitor be careful to match the + - on the cap and also the fwr. With the engine running, check the output voltage. If it is within the tachs input range, Then connect this combination to the tach. When the engine is running there will be power to the tach and you will be counting hours. You can do it with a single diode but the output voltage won't be as steady. But a larger capacitor will help with that. Most tachs have a fairly big voltage range for proper operation. But it is always best to check. Boyd Young ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/25/17
Brain fart said tach meant Hobbs meter......sorry Boyd Young should proof read before hitting send not after. I've made worse mistakes.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
[quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I guess...? :-) I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb [quote] A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Spangler <roy.spangler(at)kirtland.edu>
Date: Feb 26, 2017
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Please pOST ROY On Sunday, February 26, 2017, Richard Pike wrote: > > > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack > recovery chutes? I have a > second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as > if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I > guess...? :-) > > > I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came > off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that > $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is > rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, > then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb > > [quote] > > A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was > damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will > be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post > pictures and details when we get that far along. > > My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack > which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent > it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead > and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did > that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. > > Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to > repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of > base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all > of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can > post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
I guess I was lucky when I got my Second Chantz chute repacked and new rocket from John Dunham just when he was getting back into business in 2014. I took the chute directly to him and paid when it was ready. At that time he seemed to be straight forward and eager to get back in business. His interesting project at that time was to design and supply a chute for a motorcycle jump across a canyon, maybe Eddie Braun across the Snake River. Sad to hear that he's done you wrong...... **Carson City is a great place to visit. Grand country all around. Sierras and Lake Tahoe to the west. Virginia City, site of the old Comstock silver mine nearby. Black Rock desert to the north. JG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
Subject: Brs chutes
I have a 600- can-top BRS-6 in two boxes. Still sealed in boxes never opened. Past repack but I believe brs is scamming us. I think these things are sitting on shelves until sold and then assigned dates. Repack dates are bull dung. Why would a chute work and then suddenly not work? If that were true they would be up to necks in legal problems. Anyway, have this brs belonging to a friend sitting here without a plane. He wanted three for it a couple years ago. Probably could get him way down now. Cant be shipped. Might meet half way for delivery. Could be repacked and still be cheaper than new. Mount is for kolb. Make offer. Ted. Cowan at 334-332-3457 Opelika Alabama. Leave message > > > > ________________________________ > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2017
From: Jon LaVasseur <firestar503(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Firestar II for sale
Hi Kolb List, I have a Firestar II listed for sale on Barnstormers.=C2- The listing is for a Firestar II-503 for $9999.00. It is built from a Pennsylvania quick b uild kit.=C2- While it is for sale as a complete, n-numbered Experimental Amatuer Built plane, I would prefer to sell it without the data plate and N-number to limit my liability as a builder.=C2- If there is anyone out t here interested in an unregistered purchase, please let me know.=C2- A su bstantial discount is possible.=C2- Jon LaVasseur 763-559-6609. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Memories for anyone??
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
This pic just in hot off the email press...Herb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
Subject: Re: Memories for anyone??
OK, who's gull? and when? Larry On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Herb wrote: > > This pic just in hot off the email press...Herb > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Memories for anyone??
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
Do not know when...the Gull flyer just bought a 503 from me...though I told him that you might still have one...he knows you...Russell is his given name...said he had not seen you for a couple of years... Something about you living out in the middle of no where?? :-) Herb On 02/27/2017 09:33 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > OK, who's gull? and when? > Larry > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Herb > wrote: > > > This pic just in hot off the email press...Herb > > > -- > /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant > of others./ > / > / > /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending./ -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2017
Subject: Re: Memories for anyone??
On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:49 PM, Herb wrote: > Do not know when...the Gull flyer just bought a 503 from me...though I > told him that you might still have one...he knows you...Russell is his > given name...said he had not seen you for a couple of years... Something > about you living out in the middle of no where?? :-) Herb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I allowed myself to get taken to the cleaners with that engine by sending it to a guy in Willamina Or. that goes through the engines and sells them at a cut rate price and gives the old owner what is left over from the overhaul of the engine. Not likely to do that again, but it was still better than having it sit on a shelf with every thing drying up in it. As for living in the middle of nowhere, I only live about 36 airmiles from that spot that he landed. The best part of it is that there are very few idiots near me. :-) take care, Larry > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: great big ole landing strip...
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Feb 28, 2017
Ouch! I see that ad on Barnstormers...send engine and I will sell it for you...make it good as new...something like that... He indicated that you lived nearby...though following the chatter over the years...with some of you guys flying there...I still did not remember where it was located...Herb On 02/27/2017 11:33 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:49 PM, Herb > wrote: > > Do not know when...the Gull flyer just bought a 503 from > me...though I told him that you might still have one...he knows > you...Russell is his given name...said he had not seen you for a > couple of years... Something about you living out in the middle of > no where?? :-) Herb > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I allowed myself to get taken to the cleaners with that engine by > sending it to a guy in Willamina Or. that goes through the engines and > sells them at a cut rate price and gives the old owner what is left > over from the overhaul of the engine. Not likely to do that again, but > it was still better than having it sit on a shelf with every thing > drying up in it. > > As for living in the middle of nowhere, I only live about 36 airmiles > from that spot that he landed. The best part of it is that there are > very few idiots near me. :-) > > take care, > Larry > >> >> -- >> /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are >> intolerant of others./ >> / >> / >> /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my >> email address before sending./ > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > > > -- > /The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant > of others./ > / > / > /If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending./ -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark III
From: "jonealjr" <jonealjr(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 28, 2017
ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark III in person to see how there built before making my purchase. I would be very appreciative for your time to make this happen. 818-665-9421 call or text Jimmy THANK YOU THANK YOU :D :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466764#466764 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. Rick Girard On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack > recovery chutes? I have a > second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as > if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I > guess...? :-) > > > I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came > off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that > $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is > rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, > then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb > > [quote] > > A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was > damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will > be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post > pictures and details when we get that far along. > > My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack > which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent > it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahea d > and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who di d > that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. > > Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to > repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of > base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and a ll > of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can > post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Guess the question is: Can any certified rigger repack these ballistic chutes? Herb On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger > shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything > they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't > get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a > chute in knots and got their film. > A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the > lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. > NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost > didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to > that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected > and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back > brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. > > Rick Girard > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > > wrote: > > > > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com>"]I guess anyone who > is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a > second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... > Sounds as > if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I > guess...? :-) > > > I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of > 2012... Came > off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that > $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer > model is > rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, > then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb > > [quote] > > A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister > was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in > it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy > bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. > > My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft > pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I > have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and > repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time > they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. > Prices were very reasonable. > > Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and > how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them > available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a > half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general > procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they > are all in .pdf format. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> > > > =================================== > -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > -- > > > Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho > Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
I have a similar story....buddy of many years was parachute jumping in Indiana back in the old days...1969.... Main chute did not open.....and in his haste he forgot to cut it away before pulling reserve....now they both are tangled!! somehow he managed to get his body into a flying plank attitude and at some distance above the ground one or both chutes opened... Luckily, a doctor was near and saw the accident; for he did a tracheotomy to allow my buddy to begin to breathe.....Fred was awake ...for he remembers the words the Doctor said to the ambulance drive...."no hurry, he won't be alive when you get to the hospital"! Fred died in 2011 at the age of 66. :-) Loved flying his trike....for he could get from the wheel chair to the seat and handle it by himself... Herb On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger > shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything > they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't > get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a > chute in knots and got their film. > A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the > lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. > NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost > didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to > that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected > and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back > brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. > > Rick Girard > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > > wrote: > > > > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com>"]I guess anyone who > is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a > second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... > Sounds as > if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I > guess...? :-) > > > I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of > 2012... Came > off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that > $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer > model is > rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, > then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb > > [quote] > > A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister > was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in > it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy > bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. > > My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft > pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I > have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and > repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time > they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. > Prices were very reasonable. > > Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and > how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them > available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a > half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general > procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they > are all in .pdf format. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> > > > =================================== > -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > =================================== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > -- > > > Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. Groucho > Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Part of the reason for regular inspections is that fabric sticks together over time. That lengthens the time it takes to open. While that is happening you are whistling toward the ground at an increasing rate. How much is that extra time worth in dollars saved? Then there's the issue of insect, moisture and heat damage. Most BRS chutes live in a metal can in the sun. It heats up. That could cause synthetic fabric to become brittle. The chute lives in a hangar or trailer in an environment of temperature and humidity swings. It's sealed, right? Are you sure? Bugs find holes. Bugs make holes. When you pull that handle you want to see a perfect chute come out, don't you? Think of a repack as an annual checkup with your MD. You do that, don't you? Then why not do the same for your chute? Be nice to your BRS and it will be nice to you. PCKing ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: second chantz chutes Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. Rick Girard On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike wrote: [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I guess...? :-) I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb [quote] A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: last chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Interesting thing about Fred's story...He usually did the repack....but this time, someone else!! I think that a thin sailplane chute may be the best,cheapest way to go...? I would not want to bail out and watch the plane hit a populated area however...Therefore, I think if the plane was intact and flyable...I would stay with it... The history of Kolbs...is that they do not break up in flight unless the pilot is flying outside the envelope...usually , way outside...or one is caught in a super bad storm... Engine out....do you fly the plane or pull the chute...? Depends on the terrain for the most part...right? My two engine outs...were non events...airport made...With the MkIII I never even thought about trying the starter....for I flew gliders back in the 70's and the MkIII flew just great dead stick... ...The second time, I radioed my flying buddies and told them.."hey! I am a glider".:-) !! Wondering....are there any of the soft toss chutes available? New? I have two or three of them...in the aviation bedroom...I kept them handy for when the ex wife got frisky!! :-) Herb By the way...the more I see other planes in the Kolb category...the more I appreciate the Homer genius!! On 03/01/2017 09:24 AM, pcking wrote: > Part of the reason for regular inspections is that fabric sticks > together over time. That lengthens the time it takes to open. While > that is happening you are whistling toward the ground at an increasing > rate. How much is that extra time worth in dollars saved? > Then there's the issue of insect, moisture and heat damage. Most BRS > chutes live in a metal can in the sun. It heats up. That could cause > synthetic fabric to become brittle. The chute lives in a hangar or > trailer in an environment of temperature and humidity swings. It's > sealed, right? Are you sure? Bugs find holes. Bugs make holes. When > you pull that handle you want to see a perfect chute come out, don't you? > Think of a repack as an annual checkup with your MD. You do that, > don't you? Then why not do the same for your chute? > Be nice to your BRS and it will be nice to you. > PCKing > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Girard > *To:* kolb-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:49 AM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: second chantz chutes > > Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger > shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried > everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, > but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in > desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. > A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, > the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. > NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that > almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused > vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to > have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless > you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun > that goes with both. > > Rick Girard > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > > wrote: > > > > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com>"]I guess anyone > who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a > second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... > Sounds as > if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I > guess...? :-) > > > I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of > 2012... Came > off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was > told that > $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The > newer model is > rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked > locally, > then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb > > [quote] > > A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the > canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute > is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our > own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we > get that far along. > > My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a > soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the > years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it > fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make > arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who > did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. > > Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes > and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them > available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about > a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same > general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the > manuals, they are all in .pdf format. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 > <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> > > > =================================== > -List" rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > =================================== > FORUMS - > eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > WIKI - > errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > -- > > > Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. > Groucho Marx > <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: last chantz chutes
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Good post Herb. I had 2 engine outs and one engine malfunction in my MKIII. Initially I had a 532, and after several hundred hours, it spun the gear on the crank that drove the through shaft that spun the water pump and the rotary valve. With the rotary valve out of time, it went to partial power, and I successfully flew 5 miles back to the airport I had departed from and landed w/o incident. Borrowed a friends 503, stuck it on, and flew it home. After I upgraded to a 582, I installed an oil tank for a riding mower as my oil injection reservoir. Unbeknownst to me, while the tank was on the shelf in the mower shop, a little spider had built a web/nest up in one of the corners, and after about 20 hours, the webbing came loose and blocked off the port out of the tank. Seizure. Landed at a paved model airplane strip w/o incident. (What are the odds?!?) Thank you Lord! About a year later, I was tinkering with main jet sizes and installed a main jet that I apparently did not tighten securely. About 15 seconds after takeoff, it fell out, and the engine went to partial power. I landed w/o incident in a pasture off the end of the runway, and after reinstalling the original jets, flew out of the pasture and back to the strip, with the only problem being a fuselage covered with cow pie mung. Gotta love the MKIII; an airplane that lends itself to adventures! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466784#466784 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: last chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
In re a streaming chute - this sounds ridiculous! =94 the Army has HALO chutes, which will stream until you pull the toggle, just as designed.. Problem solved, or am I missing something? I was not even tempted to pull the chute in my Mark3 - over power lines, did NOT want to lose all control Russ K > On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Herb wrote: > > Interesting thing about Fred's story...He usually did the repack....but this time, someone else!! > > I think that a thin sailplane chute may be the best,cheapest way to go...? I would not want to bail out and watch the plane hit a populated area however...Therefore, I think if the plane was intact and flyable...I would stay with it... > > The history of Kolbs...is that they do not break up in flight unless the pilot is flying outside the envelope...usually , way outside...or one is caught in a super bad storm... > > Engine out....do you fly the plane or pull the chute...? Depends on the terrain for the most part...right? > > My two engine outs...were non events...airport made...With the MkIII I never even thought about trying the starter....for I flew gliders back in the 70's and the MkIII flew just great dead stick... ...The second time, I radioed my flying buddies and told them.."hey! I am a glider".:-) !! > > Wondering....are there any of the soft toss chutes available? New? I have two or three of them...in the aviation bedroom...I kept them handy for when the ex wife got frisky!! :-) Herb > > > > By the way...the more I see other planes in the Kolb category...the more I appreciate the Homer genius!! > > > On 03/01/2017 09:24 AM, pcking wrote: >> Part of the reason for regular inspections is that fabric sticks together over time. That lengthens the time it takes to open. While that is happening you are whistling toward the ground at an increasing rate. How much is that extra time worth in dollars saved? >> >> Then there's the issue of insect, moisture and heat damage. Most BRS chutes live in a metal can in the sun. It heats up. That could cause synthetic fabric to become brittle. The chute lives in a hangar or trailer in an environment of temperature and humidity swings. It's sealed, right? Are you sure? Bugs find holes. Bugs make holes. When you pull that handle you want to see a perfect chute come out, don't you? >> >> Think of a repack as an annual checkup with your MD. You do that, don't you? Then why not do the same for your chute? >> >> Be nice to your BRS and it will be nice to you. >> >> PCKing >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Richard Girard <mailto:aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> >> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:49 AM >> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: second chantz chutes >> >> Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. >> A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. >> NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. >> >> Rick Girard >> >> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > wrote: > >> >> [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com/>"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a >> second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as >> if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I >> guess...? :-) >> >> >> I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came >> off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that >> $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is >> rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, >> then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb >> >> [quote] >> >> A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. >> >> My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. >> >> Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== =========== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>Navigator?Kolb-List >> ======================== =========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>contribution >> ======================== =========== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> >> > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Another similar story. A buddy jumping in NY State had both chutes tangle & stream - said =98he knew he was dead=99, coming down at about 90MPH. Then the chutes tangled in a big maple tree!!! =94 he went BOING, BOING, but never touched the ground. He says his fingerprints are still an inch deep in that tree trunk. All=99s well that ends well. He jumped again the same day Russ K > On Mar 1, 2017, at 10:19 AM, Herb wrote: > > I have a similar story....buddy of many years was parachute jumping in Indiana back in the old days...1969.... Main chute did not open.....and in his haste he forgot to cut it away before pulling reserve....now they both are tangled!! > > somehow he managed to get his body into a flying plank attitude and at some distance above the ground one or both chutes opened... Luckily, a doctor was near and saw the accident; for he did a tracheotomy to allow my buddy to begin to breathe.....Fred was awake ...for he remembers the words the Doctor said to the ambulance drive...."no hurry, he won't be alive when you get to the hospital"! Fred died in 2011 at the age of 66. :-) > Loved flying his trike....for he could get from the wheel chair to the seat and handle it by himself... Herb > > On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: >> Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. >> A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. >> NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. >> >> Rick Girard >> >> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > wrote: > >> >> [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com/>"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a >> second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as >> if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I >> guess...? :-) >> >> >> I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came >> off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that >> $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is >> rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, >> then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb >> >> [quote] >> >> A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. >> >> My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. >> >> Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== =========== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>Navigator?Kolb-List >> ======================== =========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >> ======================== =========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >> ======================== =========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>contribution >> ======================== =========== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> >> > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Herb, as I understand it BRS uses a hydraulic press with pressures of 50K lbs/in. I doubt other repackers have such a machine. My last repack cost me $500. My life is worth at LEAST that much. The military chutes have a TON of research behind them. That=99s why they=99re so hard to make stream. Civilian outfits, no. Don=99t take chances. Fair winds, Russ K > On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Herb wrote: > > Guess the question is: Can any certified rigger repack these ballistic chutes? Herb > > On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: >> Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. >> A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. >> NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. >> >> Rick Girard >> >> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > wrote: > >> >> [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com/>"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a >> second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as >> if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I >> guess...? :-) >> >> >> I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came >> off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that >> $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is >> rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, >> then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb >> >> [quote] >> >> A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. >> >> My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. >> >> Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. >> >> -------- >> Richard Pike >> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >> >> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== =========== >> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>Navigator?Kolb-List >> ======================== =========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >> ======================== =========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >> ======================== =========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>contribution >> ======================== =========== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. =9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> >> > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
I had heard that it took some real pressure to get it into the enclosure but I did no understand the need for that kind of pressure on all of their designs......which brings the question....why not a larger enclosure? That be true..then the 1600 that I was quoted would be fair. though painful... :-) Are you saying that the back pack chutes that glider riders use are substandard and not safe...That was what I had in mind. Herb On 03/01/2017 07:11 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: > Herb, as I understand it BRS uses a hydraulic press with pressures of > 50K lbs/in. > I doubt other repackers have such a machine. > My last repack cost me $500. My life is worth at LEAST that much. > The military chutes have a TON of research behind them. Thats why > theyre so hard to > make stream. Civilian outfits, no. Dont take chances. > Fair winds, > Russ K > > >> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Herb > > wrote: >> >> Guess the question is: Can any certified rigger repack these >> ballistic chutes? Herb >> >> >> On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: >>> Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger >>> shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything >>> they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't >>> get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a >>> chute in knots and got their film. >>> A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, >>> the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. >>> NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that >>> almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra >>> thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute >>> inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in >>> a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. >>> >>> Rick Girard >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com/>"]I guess anyone >>> who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a >>> second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... >>> Sounds as >>> if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I >>> guess...? :-) >>> >>> >>> I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of >>> 2012... Came >>> off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that >>> $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer >>> model is >>> rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, >>> then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb >>> >>> [quote] >>> >>> A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister >>> was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still >>> in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand >>> deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far >>> along. >>> >>> My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft >>> pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I >>> have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and >>> repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time >>> they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz >>> chutes. Prices were very reasonable. >>> >>> Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes >>> and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them >>> available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a >>> half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general >>> procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, >>> they are all in .pdf format. >>> >>> -------- >>> Richard Pike >>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >>> >>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 >>> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =================================== >>> -List" rel="noreferrer" >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >>> =================================== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> =================================== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> =================================== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> rel="noreferrer" >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> =================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light. >>> Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." >> >> Aristotle >> > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pcking" <pc.king(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
A friend just had the chute on his Cirrus repacked. That's the one that lowers the entire plane. It cost him $14k. A repack is required every 5 years. A guy in my class at jump school went out of the 119 with a hand out. He spun and wrapped up the main chute. Instead of catching the reserve and throwing it away from him, he just pulled the ripcord. The reserve wrapped itself around the main. The NCO on the sound system on the ground told him to prepare to make a hard landing. He bent himself into a PLF position before he reached the ground, bounced 20 feet, hopped up and began wrapping up his chutes. He was ordered lay down. The medevac Huey took him to the hospital. He had sprained every muscle in his body but didn't break a bone. There is a lot of bounce to the sand DZs at Fort Benning. There is a lot to be said for the PT you go through before your first jump. The towers at Benning are 250' high. The cadre hooked a reserve ripcord to the lift mechanism and dropped a dummy wearing the reserve. The chute was just beginning to open when the dummy hit the ground. Any chute takes time and altitude to open. Military jumps start at 1100 feet. There were several chute failures while I was at Jump School. The riggers took a lot of heat from a non-airborne officer. One of the riggers took a chute from the tables, stuffed it into the trash can at the end of the room, tossed the can as he stepped out of a Huey and landed safely. The whining stopped. If you need that chute, you really want it to work the first time. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Kinne To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: second chantz chutes Herb, as I understand it BRS uses a hydraulic press with pressures of 50K lbs/in. I doubt other repackers have such a machine. My last repack cost me $500. My life is worth at LEAST that much. The military chutes have a TON of research behind them. That=99s why they=99re so hard to make stream. Civilian outfits, no. Don=99t take chances. Fair winds, Russ K On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Herb wrote: Guess the question is: Can any certified rigger repack these ballistic chutes? Herb On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. Rick Girard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
$1600 for a repack? DID I READ THAT RIGHT!!!- that=99s simply price-gpuging. Get another brand, IMHO > On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Herb wrote: > > I had heard that it took some real pressure to get it into the enclosure but I did no understand the need for that kind of pressure on all of their designs......which brings the question....why not a larger enclosure? That be true..then the 1600 that I was quoted would be fair. though painful... :-) > Are you saying that the back pack chutes that glider riders use are substandard and not safe...That was what I had in mind. Herb > > On 03/01/2017 07:11 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: >> Herb, as I understand it BRS uses a hydraulic press with pressures of 50K lbs/in. >> I doubt other repackers have such a machine. >> My last repack cost me $500. My life is worth at LEAST that much. >> The military chutes have a TON of research behind them. That=99s why they=99re so hard to >> make stream. Civilian outfits, no. Don=99t take chances. >> Fair winds, >> Russ K >> >> >> >>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:57 AM, Herb > wrote: >>> >>> Guess the question is: Can any certified rigger repack these ballistic chutes? Herb >>> >>> On 03/01/2017 08:49 AM, Richard Girard wrote: >>>> Have a buddy who jumped in the army. He was asked to help a rigger shoot film (VN War era) of a streaming canopy. They tried everything they could think of, even deployed from a shopping bag, but couldn't get a chute to fail to inflate. Finally, in desperation, they tied a chute in knots and got their film. >>>> A parachute is a hard thing to screw up. If you have a fresh pack, the lines straight, the panels flaked and a wind channel it will work. >>>> NOW, having said that and being the victim of a parachute that almost didn't open (I'm an inch shorter and have two fused vertebra thanks to that little screw up) it is ALWAYS cheaper to have a chute inspected and packed by a certified rigger. Unless you like being in a back brace, years of back pain and all the fun that goes with both. >>>> >>>> Rick Girard >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Pike > wrote: > >>>> >>>> [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com <http://nctc.com/>"]I guess anyone who is certified can repack recovery chutes? I have a >>>> second Chantz that would work for a Firefly or Firestar 1... Sounds as >>>> if there is nothing I can do with it...? Could fire the rocket I >>>> guess...? :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> I also have a BRS 5 VLS 900 that is expired.. March of 2012... Came >>>> off of a Challenger II that I sold... Make offer... I was told that >>>> $1600 and change would get a repack and new rocket... The newer model is >>>> rated at 1100 lbs and cost over 5k....If it can be repacked locally, >>>> then the cost of a rocket is on the order of 700 bucks...Herb >>>> >>>> [quote] >>>> >>>> A 1985 model BRS came with our Firestar wreck, but the canister was damaged. It is in firing condition, and the chute is still in it. We will be removing the chute and making our own hand deploy bag. Will post pictures and details when we get that far along. >>>> >>>> My MKIII has one of the last 2nd Chantz chutes ever sold, a soft pack which detaches from the launch canister. Over the years I have twice sent it to Skydive Kentucky to have it fluffed and repacked. I would call ahead and make arrangements, at one time they had a guy who worked there who did that on 2nd Chantz chutes. Prices were very reasonable. >>>> >>>> Spent an interesting morning Googling hand deployed parachutes and how to repack them, turns out there are a number of them available, as a lot of base jumpers use them. Downloaded about a half dozen repack manuals and all of them use the same general procedures. If anybody is interested I can post the manuals, they are all in .pdf format. >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Richard Pike >>>> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >>>> Kingsport, TN 3TN0 >>>> >>>> Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466671#466671> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ======================= ============ >>>> -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>Navigator?Kolb-List >>>> ======================= ============ >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >>>> ======================= ============ >>>> WIKI - >>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com <http://wiki.matronics.com/> >>>> ======================= ============ >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/ <http://www.matronics.com/>contribution >>>> ======================= ============ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." >>> >>> Aristotle >>> >> > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
That was the quote 1600+ for a rocket and repack of my BRS 5 VLs 900....Herb On 03/01/2017 08:15 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: > $1600 for a repack? DID I READ THAT RIGHT!!!- thats simply > price-gpuging. Get another brand, IMHO > > >> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Herb > > wrote: >> >> I had heard that it took some real pressure to get it into the >> enclosure but I did no understand the need for that kind of pressure >> on all of their designs......which brings the question....why not a >> larger enclosure? That be true..then the 1600 that I was quoted >> would be fair. though painful... :-) >> >> Are you saying that the back pack chutes that glider riders use >> are substandard and not safe...That was what I had in mind. Herb >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russ Kinne <russk50(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
Date: Mar 01, 2017
Even with a rocket, that sounds HIGH. Mebbe I=99m just a stingy Scotsman? Hope not. But my life is even worth more than $1800+ > On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Herb wrote: > > That was the quote 1600+ for a rocket and repack of my BRS 5 VLs 900....Herb > > On 03/01/2017 08:15 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: >> $1600 for a repack? DID I READ THAT RIGHT!!!- that=99s simply price-gpuging. Get another brand, IMHO >> >> >>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Herb > wrote: >>> >>> I had heard that it took some real pressure to get it into the enclosure but I did no understand the need for that kind of pressure on all of their designs......which brings the question....why not a larger enclosure? That be true..then the 1600 that I was quoted would be fair. though painful... :-) >>> Are you saying that the back pack chutes that glider riders use are substandard and not safe...That was what I had in mind. Herb > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: second chantz chutes
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2017
They do not offer the 900 any more...but an 1100...at over 5k..so the 900 would be high 4k if still offered...I notice that BRS has a federal or military division..which tells me a lot... Do not know who, other than Second Chantz is offering BRS ...? And Second Chantz seems to be shooting themselves or their customers..in the foot..! Herb On 03/01/2017 08:30 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: > Even with a rocket, that sounds HIGH. > Mebbe Im just a stingy Scotsman? Hope not. > But my life is even worth more than $1800+ > >> On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Herb > > wrote: >> >> That was the quote 1600+ for a rocket and repack of my BRS 5 VLs >> 900....Herb >> >> >> On 03/01/2017 08:15 PM, Russ Kinne wrote: >>> $1600 for a repack? DID I READ THAT RIGHT!!!- thats simply >>> price-gpuging. Get another brand, IMHO >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Herb >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I had heard that it took some real pressure to get it into the >>>> enclosure but I did no understand the need for that kind of >>>> pressure on all of their designs......which brings the >>>> question....why not a larger enclosure? That be true..then the >>>> 1600 that I was quoted would be fair. though painful... :-) >>>> >>>> Are you saying that the back pack chutes that glider riders use >>>> are substandard and not safe...That was what I had in mind. Herb >>>> >> > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hobbs meter?
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 02, 2017
The mail lady left me a padded envelope in the box today, and inside it I found this: from Dick Kuntzelman, who took the time and trouble to spoon feed an electronically ignorant old man. Thank you Sir, you have made my day. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466802#466802 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050715_medium_110.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark III
Video https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark III
Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch video the password is. beekeeper https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Video
Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked for me maybe because I was checked into the account...... Try this https://vimeo.com/119686841 Password is beekeeper On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch video the password is. beekeeper https://vimeo.com/ user29057193/flying-the-bear-river Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark
III I am in Southerm CA and can go look at whatever Mark 3 is being discussed if it is helpful. Bill Berle 818-six34-9seven62 Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3/6/17, B Young wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a Mark III To: "Kolb List" Date: Monday, March 6, 2017, 7:19 AM Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch video the password is. beekeeper https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Video
I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture that it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I am not sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is why I quit using it. It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to say that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! Larry On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young wrote: > Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked for > me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > > Try this > > https://vimeo.com/119686841 > > Password is beekeeper > > On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch > video the password is. beekeeper > https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > Boyd > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Video
OK what editing software should I replace movie maker with? On Mar 6, 2017 9:43 AM, "Larry Cottrell" wrote: > I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture that > it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I am not > sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is why I > quit using it. > > It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing > strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut > would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to say > that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! > Larry > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young wrote: > >> Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked >> for me maybe because I was checked into the account...... >> >> Try this >> >> https://vimeo.com/119686841 >> >> Password is beekeeper >> >> On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: >> >> Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to >> watch video the password is. beekeeper >> https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river >> >> Boyd >> >> >> > > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Video
Boyd The video is great. send us more. I use movie maker and it has always produced larger size picture. I'm not real proficient with movie maker and it seems like vimeo tells me there is a better resolution to use but I get the large picture and it looks great so I haven't fixed it. Seems like I just set the publishing settings as movie maker recommended for vimeo. I tried a bunch of different mounts and the wing strut mount (right at the jury strut attachment) works best for my MKIIIC. My camera has a real wide field of view so I get the leading edge of the wing. If I point it down more the video looks strange and has more of the rolling effect. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:38 AM, B Young wrote: > Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked for > me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > > Try this > > https://vimeo.com/119686841 > > Password is beekeeper > > On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch > video the password is. beekeeper > https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > Boyd > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Re: Video
http://www.cyberlink.com/stat/edms/ppc/video-editing-software/powerdirector/15/30-30-45P_72hr/us/index_adr_bot-t_cp_bun.jsp I am using version 12, which I do not see as available. I stayed with that as I do not need all the various bells and gimmicks that the later versions enable. There are free versions of several editors available. I cannot say what they are like however. You could just buy a new Virb Elite and get a movie editor with the camera. The virb , to my eye, seems to have the best clarity of all the camera's that I have tried. It comes with a remote or you can just set it to record when the plane is moving and not worry about it. Three hour battery comes with it. I think the camera is worth it even if I do not turn it into a movie for others to see, in that I can display it on my TV for the wife to see. Perhaps you can find out why Movie Maker only gives you a small 6x8 picture rather than a full screen. It used to be full screen, then changed. The quality of the finished project is not as good as it would be with another editing program however. Then again- it is free! Larry On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:45 AM, B Young wrote: > OK what editing software should I replace movie maker with? > On Mar 6, 2017 9:43 AM, "Larry Cottrell" wrote: > >> I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture >> that it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I am >> not sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is why I >> quit using it. >> >> It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing >> strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut >> would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to say >> that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! >> Larry >> >> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young wrote: >> >>> Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked >>> for me maybe because I was checked into the account...... >>> >>> Try this >>> >>> https://vimeo.com/119686841 >>> >>> Password is beekeeper >>> >>> On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: >>> >>> Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to >>> watch video the password is. beekeeper >>> https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river >>> >>> Boyd >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of >> others.* >> >> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email >> address before sending.* >> > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Video
From: "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Great movie, hope to see more. Thanks for posting it. -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466949#466949 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Video
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Nice, thank you. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466954#466954 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 06, 2017
Subject: Vodeo
Here is another. 2 to 3 years old. Password is beekeeper https://vimeo.com/98587855 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Subject: If I were the Director....
Date: Mar 07, 2017
Hello Boyd, Thank you for sharing you flight movie! If I were the Director of the =9CKolb Movie franchise=9DI would require a frame of the Kolb that was nice enough to fly that camera around! In this case it would also be nice to see the mount. Thank you for sharing, and being polite pilot! Enjoy, Nick Cassara Still enjoying a real Alaska winter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Subject: Internal Auto fuel pump?
Date: Mar 07, 2017
Kolbers, I was talking with an A&P, at the airport about the size of my fuel tank, and leaving space for the in external fuel pump behind the tank, while still maximizing the size of the tank. He said that in his experience an automotive style internal fuel pumps are far more reliable and when installed in the tank, would allow for a lager tank size This guy has been around, and has a good reputation. I would be interested in your thoughtsyou dont have to hold back:) Thanks, Nick Cassara PAAQ Palmer, Alaska N607AK still on the ground ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Subject: Internal Auto fuel pump?
Date: Mar 07, 2017
Kolbers, I was talking with an A&P, at the airport about the size of my fuel tank, and leaving space for the in external fuel pump behind the tank, while still maximizing the size of the tank. He said that in his experience an automotive style internal fuel pumps are far more reliable and when installed in the tank, would allow for a lager tank size This guy has been around, and has a good reputation. I would be interested in your thoughtsyou dont have to hold back:) Thanks, Nick Cassara PAAQ Palmer, Alaska N607AK still on the ground ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 07, 2017
Subject: Re: Internal Auto fuel pump?
Well I have been using the same one since 1997. Its simple to use, simple to see and check. I think it cost me $17.00 A Facett I mean, with 3-5 lbs pressure. You can be as sophisticated as you want. Neither one would hurt. I am sure that one of them is cheaper however. They are still going to call it an ultralight or a toy however. :-) Larry On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Nick Cassara wrote: > > Kolbers, > > I was talking with an A&P, at the airport about the size of my fuel tank, > and leaving space for the in external fuel pump behind the tank, while > still maximizing the size of the tank. He said that in his experience an > automotive style internal fuel pumps are far more reliable and when > installed in the tank, would allow for a lager tank size > This guy has been around, and has a good reputation. I would be intereste d > in your thoughtsyou don=99t have to hold back:) > > Thanks, > > Nick Cassara > > PAAQ > > Palmer, Alaska > > N607AK still on the ground > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Internal Auto fuel pump?
From: "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 07, 2017
I believe most in tank automotive pumps are made with fuel injection in mind. putting out high pressures. Even the old throttle bodies ran 15psi newer multiport run up around 40 psi. I don't think this what you want wit a Rotax -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466987#466987 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: "Clay.S" <clayspurgeon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
I'd like to know the gauge and alloy on the aluminum used on the Ulstrastar rib stampings if anyone has that info. My Ultrastar "kit" is missing the rib stampings, so I have a call into the factory re purchasing them if they are still the same as current designs, but otherwise will need to fabricate them - many thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467015#467015 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
Date: Mar 08, 2017
US main spar rib gusset should be the same as the FS, FSII, FSKX. john h MKIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay.S Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted I'd like to know the gauge and alloy on the aluminum used on the Ulstrastar rib stampings if anyone has that info. My Ultrastar "kit" is missing the rib stampings, so I have a call into the factory re purchasing them if they are still the same as current designs, but otherwise will need to fabricate them - many thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467015#467015 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
I went to my Aircraft Spruce north store, better known as a tobacco barn, and measured .029/.030 there bouts... .025 and .032 are the thicknesss shown at Aircraft Spruce south.. Doubt that it would be 2024 t3 as I do not think it would stand up to rolling the lip. And rolling the lip for the spar tube requires a die and a specialized tool with a couple of bearings . Maybe a modified boring tool....used in a vertical mill.. Last time I asked...TNK did not want to sell parts for ribs...and ribs were maybe 75 bucks..likely near 100 now..for that was 10 years ago... There should be broken wings and kits laying here and there...I think the Firefly also uses that rib..Same shape and spar hole...only difference might be thinner gussets and the spar flange gusset...Herb On 03/08/2017 10:47 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > US main spar rib gusset should be the same as the FS, FSII, FSKX. > > john h > MKIII > Titus, AL > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clay.S > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 9:48 AM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted > > > I'd like to know the gauge and alloy on the aluminum used on the Ulstrastar > rib stampings if anyone has that info. > > My Ultrastar "kit" is missing the rib stampings, so I have a call into the > factory re purchasing them if they are still the same as current designs, > but otherwise will need to fabricate them - many thanks. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467015#467015 > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
Date: Mar 08, 2017
US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional resistance. Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and cancel out the aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US aggressively in roll. That really bothered me when I first started flying my US. My US was the first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to rotary wing input and results. First time I dove on my house and tried to pull out with a big wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I had a lot to learn about flying Kolbs. My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with minimal wing twist. What a great improvement. I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an old AF bomber pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he flew the B-47 for a spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did my little UL. I felt a little better after I discovered that. He said aileron input promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be gentle flying the B-47. john h mkIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted --> Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
John H do you know what the mechanical/structural difference was between the US and later FS wing attach structure? Sincea large tubular spar itself is fairly resistant to torsional movement, where was the "weakness" or lack of stiffness that allowed the wing to twist? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 3/8/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 3:02 PM "John Hauck" US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional resistance. Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and cancel out the aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US aggressively in roll. That really bothered me when I first started flying my US. My US was the first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to rotary wing input and results. First time I dove on my house and tried to pull out with a big wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I had a lot to learn about flying Kolbs. My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with minimal wing twist. What a great improvement. I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an old AF bomber pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he flew the B-47 for a spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did my little UL. I felt a little better after I discovered that. He said aileron input promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be gentle flying the B-47. john h mkIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted --> Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
Yep...That is what I removed them from...the root ribs ...but not the h sections...the other h section was from a boom tube ...Herb On 03/08/2017 03:51 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 08, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kolb Slingshot Project
Kolbers, can anyone tell me whether the Slingshot is one of the more or less desirable of the Kolb line? I know it was the clipped wing "hot rod" of the Kolb line, for more experienced pilots. Higher speeds and probably more sporty handling. Not as much STOL performance as the long wing models. Yes, yes, there is a reason for this inquiry. I'm taking in a damaged but easily rebuildable Slingshot airframe (no engine/prop) as part of a larger trade. My question for the group is whether this is something that there will be a lot of interest in, or not as much interest as a Firefly, Firestar, Kolbra, etc. This particular aircraft has damage to both wings but the damage is reasonably minor. I do NOT believe the spars are bent, several of the wing ribs are bent. The ailerons are slightly bent, but easily repairable.The fiberglass nose is un-usable. Steel fuselage cage, tailboom, tail surfaces, engine mount, etc.all appear to be good. Flaperon system is there. Canopy enclosure is there but dirty. Aircraft was hangared before and since the damage, always located in the dry NV desert. Wing Struts, landing gear, fuel tanks, and instruments are missing. No paperwork or logbooks, but an N number does exist so you can probably get a replacement airworthiness certificate from the feds. I will be able to see the cage serial number when I go pick it up this weekend. Not having seen it yet (pictures will be forthcoming in a few days) ASSUMING my brief description is accurate, can anyone here still take a guess whether this rebuild project is worth $$$ X, Y, or Z??? Will the experienced Kolb people be elbowing each other out of the way to get at this? Of course I will formally advertise it on this list first, to give the group members first shot at it. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 3/8/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 3:02 PM "John Hauck" US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional resistance. Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and cancel out the aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US aggressively in roll. That really bothered me when I first started flying my US. My US was the first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to rotary wing input and results. First time I dove on my house and tried to pull out with a big wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I had a lot to learn about flying Kolbs. My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with minimal wing twist. What a great improvement. I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an old AF bomber pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he flew the B-47 for a spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did my little UL. I felt a little better after I discovered that. He said aileron input promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be gentle flying the B-47. john h mkIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted --> Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb Slingshot Project
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
I may be wrong ,, but I think building and flying a Slingshot was the impetus that caused Bruce Chestnut to buy the company... . I bought the red one that may still be on the Kolb site. Came from the Somerset Ky area...500 hour 582 so I let it sit in the barn til someone came along....went to Indiana or Ill as I recall..By the way...those 500 + hours were on a B box with a Warp drive...??? Herb On 03/08/2017 05:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Kolbers, can anyone tell me whether the Slingshot is one of the more or less desirable of the Kolb line? I know it was the clipped wing "hot rod" of the Kolb line, for more experienced pilots. Higher speeds and probably more sporty handling. Not as much STOL performance as the long wing models. > > Yes, yes, there is a reason for this inquiry. I'm taking in a damaged but easily rebuildable Slingshot airframe (no engine/prop) as part of a larger trade. My question for the group is whether this is something that there will be a lot of interest in, or not as much interest as a Firefly, Firestar, Kolbra, etc. > > This particular aircraft has damage to both wings but the damage is reasonably minor. I do NOT believe the spars are bent, several of the wing ribs are bent. The ailerons are slightly bent, but easily repairable.The fiberglass nose is un-usable. Steel fuselage cage, tailboom, tail surfaces, engine mount, etc.all appear to be good. Flaperon system is there. Canopy enclosure is there but dirty. Aircraft was hangared before and since the damage, always located in the dry NV desert. > > Wing Struts, landing gear, fuel tanks, and instruments are missing. No paperwork or logbooks, but an N number does exist so you can probably get a replacement airworthiness certificate from the feds. I will be able to see the cage serial number when I go pick it up this weekend. > > Not having seen it yet (pictures will be forthcoming in a few days) ASSUMING my brief description is accurate, can anyone here still take a guess whether this rebuild project is worth $$$ X, Y, or Z??? Will the experienced Kolb people be elbowing each other out of the way to get at this? > > Of course I will formally advertise it on this list first, to give the group members first shot at it. > > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 3/8/17, John Hauck wrote: > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 3:02 PM > > "John Hauck" > > US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional > resistance. > Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and > cancel out the > aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US > aggressively in roll. > That really bothered me when I first started flying my > US. My US was the > first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to > rotary wing input and > results. First time I dove on my house and tried to > pull out with a big > wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I > had a lot to learn > about flying Kolbs. > > My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with > minimal wing > twist. What a great improvement. > > I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an > old AF bomber > pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he > flew the B-47 for a > spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did > my little UL. I > felt a little better after I discovered that. He said > aileron input > promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be > gentle flying the B-47. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, AL > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Richard Pike > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted > > --> > > Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to > them if you want > them. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg > > > > > > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
Date: Mar 08, 2017
The wing twisted because there were only two tubes, top and bottom of main spar, to prevent twist. The FS had a full 4130 band (ring) same same the tail post ring to prevent twist. You'd have a hard time twisting the 5 and 6 inch spars. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 5:30 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted John H do you know what the mechanical/structural difference was between the US and later FS wing attach structure? Sincea large tubular spar itself is fairly resistant to torsional movement, where was the "weakness" or lack of stiffness that allowed the wing to twist? Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 3/8/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 3:02 PM "John Hauck" US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional resistance. Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and cancel out the aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US aggressively in roll. That really bothered me when I first started flying my US. My US was the first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to rotary wing input and results. First time I dove on my house and tried to pull out with a big wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I had a lot to learn about flying Kolbs. My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with minimal wing twist. What a great improvement. I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an old AF bomber pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he flew the B-47 for a spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did my little UL. I felt a little better after I discovered that. He said aileron input promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be gentle flying the B-47. john h mkIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted --> Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to them if you want them. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb Slingshot Project
Date: Mar 08, 2017
I flew Bruce's SS at London, Lakeland, and Oshkosh. Had a 912S with red valve covers then. Was a nice airplane and fun to fly. I also flew the original SS from old Kolb at Lakeland and Oshkosh. It had a 582 and performed well with that engine. One year at Lakeland I put a professional video cameraman and his huge camera in the back of the SS. He had to rest the front of the camera on my right shoulder. We rung the SS out chasing cows and alligators. It did a good job two up. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Slingshot Project I may be wrong ,, but I think building and flying a Slingshot was the impetus that caused Bruce Chestnut to buy the company... . I bought the red one that may still be on the Kolb site. Came from the Somerset Ky area...500 hour 582 so I let it sit in the barn til someone came along....went to Indiana or Ill as I recall..By the way...those 500 + hours were on a B box with a Warp drive...??? Herb On 03/08/2017 05:56 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > --> > > Kolbers, can anyone tell me whether the Slingshot is one of the more or less desirable of the Kolb line? I know it was the clipped wing "hot rod" of the Kolb line, for more experienced pilots. Higher speeds and probably more sporty handling. Not as much STOL performance as the long wing models. > > Yes, yes, there is a reason for this inquiry. I'm taking in a damaged but easily rebuildable Slingshot airframe (no engine/prop) as part of a larger trade. My question for the group is whether this is something that there will be a lot of interest in, or not as much interest as a Firefly, Firestar, Kolbra, etc. > > This particular aircraft has damage to both wings but the damage is reasonably minor. I do NOT believe the spars are bent, several of the wing ribs are bent. The ailerons are slightly bent, but easily repairable.The fiberglass nose is un-usable. Steel fuselage cage, tailboom, tail surfaces, engine mount, etc.all appear to be good. Flaperon system is there. Canopy enclosure is there but dirty. Aircraft was hangared before and since the damage, always located in the dry NV desert. > > Wing Struts, landing gear, fuel tanks, and instruments are missing. No paperwork or logbooks, but an N number does exist so you can probably get a replacement airworthiness certificate from the feds. I will be able to see the cage serial number when I go pick it up this weekend. > > Not having seen it yet (pictures will be forthcoming in a few days) ASSUMING my brief description is accurate, can anyone here still take a guess whether this rebuild project is worth $$$ X, Y, or Z??? Will the experienced Kolb people be elbowing each other out of the way to get at this? > > Of course I will formally advertise it on this list first, to give the group members first shot at it. > > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 3/8/17, John Hauck wrote: > > Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 3:02 PM > > "John Hauck" > > US main spar attachment on inboard rib had little torsional > resistance. > Huge barn door full span ailerons would twist the wing and > cancel out the > aileron input. Could not be ham fisted or fly the US > aggressively in roll. > That really bothered me when I first started flying my > US. My US was the > first fixed wing I had ever flown. I was used to > rotary wing input and > results. First time I dove on my house and tried to > pull out with a big > wingover the US kept right on heading for the lake. I > had a lot to learn > about flying Kolbs. > > My original FS had the new ring main spar attach system with > minimal wing > twist. What a great improvement. > > I was upset about the US wing twist until I talked with an > old AF bomber > pilot and his experience with wing twist. Seems he > flew the B-47 for a > spell and had the same wing twist problem with it as I did > my little UL. I > felt a little better after I discovered that. He said > aileron input > promptly canceled out with wing twist. Had to be > gentle flying the B-47. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, AL > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Richard Pike > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:51 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted > > --> > > Not sure, but I think these might be US parts. Welcome to > them if you want > them. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467052#467052 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050730_medium_207.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050729_medium_157.jpg > > > > > > > > Forum - > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: "Clay.S" <clayspurgeon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 08, 2017
John H - thank you for the info on the stampings. Richard - thank you. I happen to have those parts but really appreciate the offer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467079#467079 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: "Clay.S" <clayspurgeon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2017
How about the Firestar rib stampings - can anyone give me the gauge and alloy for those? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467138#467138 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
The alloy will be 6061-T6 (like the rest of the airplane), and I believe the gauge will LIKELY be .025" Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 3/10/17, Clay.S wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, March 10, 2017, 6:18 AM "Clay.S" How about the Firestar rib stampings - can anyone give me the gauge and alloy for those? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467138#467138 Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
Date: Mar 10, 2017
Main spar gusset is .032" 6061-T6. Couldn't remember for sure, so I measured one with a micrometer. john h mkIII Titus, AL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted The alloy will be 6061-T6 (like the rest of the airplane), and I believe the gauge will LIKELY be .025" Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 3/10/17, Clay.S wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, March 10, 2017, 6:18 AM "Clay.S" How about the Firestar rib stampings - can anyone give me the gauge and alloy for those? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467138#467138 Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Del Vinal <mercecedes116(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2017
Subject: challenger 2 crash
Last sat. around 10:30am a challenger 2 crashed and burned with 1 aboard. in Oakvale Calif. Pilot died in fire. He was reported as approaching the landing very slowly by a helicopter student pilot. Hit a parked pick up by a hanger. Nothing left but the tailfeathers. May he rest in peace. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ultraster Rib Stampings info wanted
From: "Clay.S" <clayspurgeon(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2017
Great - thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467269#467269 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Del Vinal <mercecedes116(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/11/17
Hi everyone, I reported a challenger crash in Oakvale Cailf, It was in Oakdale. Sorry. Modesto Bee paper reporting. Godawful story. On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 4:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server < kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-11&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-11&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 03/11/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Del Vinal <mercecedes116(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 03/06/17
Hi everyone.Earlier I reported a challenger crash as being in Oakvale Calif. It was in Oakdale Modesto Bee paper. Godawful story. On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server < kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-06&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-06&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 03/06/17: 11 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:16 AM - Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark III (B Young) > 2. 07:19 AM - Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark III (B Young) > 3. 07:38 AM - Video (B Young) > 4. 07:55 AM - Re: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark III (Bill Berle) > 5. 08:41 AM - Re: Video (Larry Cottrell) > 6. 08:45 AM - Re: Video (B Young) > 7. 09:21 AM - Re: Video (Rick Neilsen) > 8. 09:32 AM - Re: Video (Larry Cottrell) > 9. 01:17 PM - Re: Video (west1m) > 10. 07:52 PM - Re: Video (Richard Pike) > 11. 08:03 PM - Vodeo (B Young) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark III > > Video https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark III > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch > video the password is. beekeeper > https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > Boyd > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Kolb-List: Video > > Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked for > me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > > Try this > > https://vimeo.com/119686841 > > Password is beekeeper > > On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to watch > video the password is. beekeeper https://vimeo.com/ > user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > Boyd > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark > III > > > I am in Southerm CA and can go look at whatever Mark 3 is being discussed > if it > is helpful. > > Bill Berle 818-six34-9seven62 > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit > entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 3/6/17, B Young wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: ANYONE near Southern California so can look at a > Mark > III > To: "Kolb List" > Date: Monday, March 6, 2017, 7:19 AM > > Sorry the previous > email should have been off list. If you want to watch > video the password is. beekeeper https://vimeo.com/ > user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > Boyd > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Video > > I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture that > it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I am not > sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is why I > quit using it. > > It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing > strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut > would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to say > that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! > Larry > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young wrote: > > > Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked > for > > me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > > > > Try this > > > > https://vimeo.com/119686841 > > > > Password is beekeeper > > > > On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > > > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to > watch > > video the password is. beekeeper > > https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > > > Boyd > > > > > > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > ________________________________ Message 6 > _____________________________________ > > > From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Video > > OK what editing software should I replace movie maker with? > On Mar 6, 2017 9:43 AM, "Larry Cottrell" wrote: > > > I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture > that > > it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I am not > > sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is why I > > quit using it. > > > > It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing > > strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut > > would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to say > > that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! > > Larry > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young > wrote: > > > >> Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked > >> for me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > >> > >> Try this > >> > >> https://vimeo.com/119686841 > >> > >> Password is beekeeper > >> > >> On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > >> > >> Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to > >> watch video the password is. beekeeper > >> https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > >> > >> Boyd > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > > others.* > > > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > > address before sending.* > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Video > > Boyd > > The video is great. send us more. > > I use movie maker and it has always produced larger size picture. I'm not > real proficient with movie maker and it seems like vimeo tells me there is > a better resolution to use but I get the large picture and it looks great > so I haven't fixed it. Seems like I just set the publishing settings as > movie maker recommended for vimeo. > > I tried a bunch of different mounts and the wing strut mount (right at the > jury strut attachment) works best for my MKIIIC. My camera has a real wide > field of view so I get the leading edge of the wing. If I point it down > more the video looks strange and has more of the rolling effect. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:38 AM, B Young wrote: > > > Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked > for > > me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > > > > Try this > > > > https://vimeo.com/119686841 > > > > Password is beekeeper > > > > On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > > > > Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to > watch > > video the password is. beekeeper > > https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > > > > Boyd > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 > _____________________________________ > > > From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Video > > http://www.cyberlink.com/stat/edms/ppc/video-editing- > software/powerdirector/15/30-30-45P_72hr/us/index_adr_bot-t_cp_bun.jsp > > I am using version 12, which I do not see as available. I stayed with that > as I do not need all the various bells and gimmicks that the later versions > enable. There are free versions of several editors available. I cannot say > what they are like however. > > You could just buy a new Virb Elite and get a movie editor with the camera. > The virb , to my eye, seems to have the best clarity of all the camera's > that I have tried. It comes with a remote or you can just set it to record > when the plane is moving and not worry about it. Three hour battery comes > with it. > > I think the camera is worth it even if I do not turn it into a movie for > others to see, in that I can display it on my TV for the wife to see. > > Perhaps you can find out why Movie Maker only gives you a small 6x8 picture > rather than a full screen. It used to be full screen, then changed. The > quality of the finished project is not as good as it would be with another > editing program however. Then again- it is free! > > Larry > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:45 AM, B Young wrote: > > > OK what editing software should I replace movie maker with? > > On Mar 6, 2017 9:43 AM, "Larry Cottrell" > wrote: > > > >> I was able to view it ok. I assume from the small size of the picture > >> that it was originally made with "Movie Maker", would that be right? I > am > >> not sure why they want to shrink the size of the video's, but that is > why I > >> quit using it. > >> > >> It looks nice and smooth, something that I could not obtain from a wing > >> strut mounting. I recall telling Bill B that a mount on the wing strut > >> would not work. It appears that I am going to have to qualify that to > say > >> that it won't work on a Firestar II. Oh well! > >> Larry > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:38 AM, B Young > wrote: > >> > >>> Ok someone contacted me and said no joy on the video..... It worked > >>> for me maybe because I was checked into the account...... > >>> > >>> Try this > >>> > >>> https://vimeo.com/119686841 > >>> > >>> Password is beekeeper > >>> > >>> On Mar 6, 2017 8:19 AM, "B Young" wrote: > >>> > >>> Sorry the previous email should have been off list. If you want to > >>> watch video the password is. beekeeper > >>> https://vimeo.com/user29057193/flying-the-bear-river > >>> > >>> Boyd > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > >> others.* > >> > >> *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > >> address before sending.* > >> > > > > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > ________________________________ Message 9 > _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Video > From: "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com> > > > Great movie, hope to see more. > Thanks for posting it. > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466949#466949 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 > ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Video > From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> > > > Nice, thank you. > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466954#466954 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 > ____________________________________ > > > From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Kolb-List: Vodeo > > Here is another. 2 to 3 years old. > > Password is beekeeper > > https://vimeo.com/98587855 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 15, 2017
Since things are sort of slow on the list right now I thought I would do an update on the Firefly. Got the windshield on today, the muffler and prop went on last week, and the wiring is done. David did most of the wiring; should have let him do all of it since he is much neater and better at it than I am. Was planing to bring the wings home today but it is just too cold. Maybe Monday. Then start to put it all together. (Original Firestar wings, FSII wing struts, and a FF fuselage - what a mongrel!) Yes, I know I am using blue urethane tubing between the carb and the fuel pump. That is so we can see if we are getting any fuel to the carb. Fortunately it is convenient to change every year. And those are the only conditions under which you should use that junk! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467361#467361 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050736_medium_728.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050737_medium_900.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050738_medium_213.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050739_medium_209.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050740_medium_784.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050741_medium_200.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
Everyone knows that a mongrel can often be better than a pure-bred ! Excellent progress, keep plugging away... summer is coming soon :) Yours is exactly the same Bahama Blue color as my FS2, and I removed a lot of that same blue plastic tubing from my plane when I got it. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 3/15/17, Richard Pike wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly progress To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, March 15, 2017, 3:05 PM "Richard Pike" Since things are sort of slow on the list right now I thought I would do an update on the Firefly. Got the windshield on today, the muffler and prop went on last week, and the wiring is done. David did most of the wiring; should have let him do all of it since he is much neater and better at it than I am. Was planing to bring the wings home today but it is just too cold. Maybe Monday. Then start to put it all together. (Original Firestar wings, FSII wing struts, and a FF fuselage - what a mongrel!) Yes, I know I am using blue urethane tubing between the carb and the fuel pump. That is so we can see if we are getting any fuel to the carb. Fortunately it is convenient to change every year. And those are the only conditions under which you should use that junk! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467361#467361 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050736_medium_728.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050737_medium_900.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050738_medium_213.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050739_medium_209.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050740_medium_784.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050741_medium_200.jpg Forum - - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - MATRONICS LIST WIKI - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 15, 2017
Bro Pike Is envy a sin?? :-) Herb On 03/15/2017 05:05 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Since things are sort of slow on the list right now I thought I would do an update on the Firefly. > Got the windshield on today, the muffler and prop went on last week, and the wiring is done. David did most of the wiring; should have let him do all of it since he is much neater and better at it than I am. > Was planing to bring the wings home today but it is just too cold. Maybe Monday. Then start to put it all together. (Original Firestar wings, FSII wing struts, and a FF fuselage - what a mongrel!) > Yes, I know I am using blue urethane tubing between the carb and the fuel pump. That is so we can see if we are getting any fuel to the carb. Fortunately it is convenient to change every year. And those are the only conditions under which you should use that junk! > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467361#467361 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050736_medium_728.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050737_medium_900.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050738_medium_213.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050739_medium_209.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050740_medium_784.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050741_medium_200.jpg > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 15, 2017
[quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]Bro Pike - Is envy a sin?? :-) Herb [quote] Dude - You gave me the front end of the cage and the engine mount tube, and you showed me how to make the bicycle brakes. If envy was the problem you could have just kept them! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467367#467367 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 15, 2017
Well Richard....very happy to see what you and your bud have accomplished... so ...yes some envy comes into play...for I viewed the parts as a mish mush not to ever be turned into a flying device...So congratulations...I am happy to have been a small part of the process... Herb On 03/15/2017 06:06 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > [quote="Herbgh(at)nctc.com"]Bro Pike - Is envy a sin?? :-) Herb [quote] > > Dude - You gave me the front end of the cage and the engine mount tube, and you showed me how to make the bicycle brakes. If envy was the problem you could have just kept them! > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467367#467367 > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>
Subject: Firefly progress
Date: Mar 15, 2017
Looking REALLY good! What did you do to assure the screws will not come loose on the terminal block mounted to the engine? Loctite or something? You are going to have FUN with that plane! S -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Pike Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:05 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly progress --> Since things are sort of slow on the list right now I thought I would do an update on the Firefly. Got the windshield on today, the muffler and prop went on last week, and the wiring is done. David did most of the wiring; should have let him do all of it since he is much neater and better at it than I am. Was planing to bring the wings home today but it is just too cold. Maybe Monday. Then start to put it all together. (Original Firestar wings, FSII wing struts, and a FF fuselage - what a mongrel!) Yes, I know I am using blue urethane tubing between the carb and the fuel pump. That is so we can see if we are getting any fuel to the carb. Fortunately it is convenient to change every year. And those are the only conditions under which you should use that junk! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467361#467361 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050736_medium_728.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050737_medium_900.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050738_medium_213.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050739_medium_209.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050740_medium_784.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050741_medium_200.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com>
Date: Mar 16, 2017
Looking good Richard. Can't wait to see it all together. -------- Jim P WAR EAGLE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467378#467378 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 16, 2017
stuart(at)harnerfarm.net wrote: > Looking REALLY good! > > What did you do to assure the screws will not come loose on the terminal > block mounted to the engine? Loctite or something? > > You are going to have FUN with that plane! > > S > > -- Hm.. Glad you asked. Since they have been there since Bucky & Carl built it back in 1985, it hadn't occurred to me to wonder what is keeping them in. I'll check it out today. Thanks. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467385#467385 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Mcabbage" <Mc(at)americanbuilding.com>
Date: Mar 16, 2017
Looks great thank you for sharing -------- 2007 Firestar 2 503 N203SD Moster 185 Flattop PPG/Sky K2 Paraglider Trike Buggy Soaring Trike & Northwing Stratus XP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467394#467394 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Subject: road transport question
Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively searching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying project a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassembled. My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're complete but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & repainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2017
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: road transport question
Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car trailer. Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 3/18/17, Charlie England wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: road transport question Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: > > Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car trailer. > Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the paperwork front. I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, but it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really want to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to pull behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling something as heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really quick; the plane is ~600 miles away. If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. Many thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Charlie Find yourself a decent boat trailer...reinstall the wings and support them at the rear...three or four feet in front of the tail... lay a 2x12 toward the front to hold the main gear...same at the rear with a pedstal that is well cushioned to hold the boom tube...roll/lift it on and fold the wings last...I use good strength , winching type straps to hold the wheels and 2/12's in place..Herb On 03/18/2017 01:11 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >> >> >> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard >> pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car >> trailer. >> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >> >> Bill >> Sullivan >> Windsor Locks, Ct. >> > It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the > paperwork front. > > I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, > but it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really > want to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to > pull behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling > something as heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really > quick; the plane is ~600 miles away. > > If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. > > Many thanks, > > Charlie > > -- "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny." Aristotle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Subject: Re: road transport question
Charlie I pulled a 24 foot home made trailer with a firestar ii from Lincoln Neb with a Subaru legacy to Klamath Falls Oregon. The key is - can you keep the wings from being damaged. The cage and the rest should be no problem. I hauled mine with it only folded. Larry On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: > >> williamtsullivan(at)att.net> >> >> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard >> pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car >> trailer. >> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >> >> Bill Sullivan >> Windsor >> Locks, Ct. >> >> It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the > paperwork front. > > I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, but > it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really want to > go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to pull behind a > 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling something as heavy as a > car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really quick; the plane is ~600 > miles away. > > If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. > > Many thanks, > > Charlie > > -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Subject: Re: road transport question
Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somethin g fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff like t he engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in good wi ng rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and cover w ell. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of m y shop wing rack. Have a great day! > On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wrote : > > Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively sea rching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying projec t a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemble d. > > My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is n eeded for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're complete but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & repai nted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ U TV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. > > What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? > > Thanks, > > Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Sounds good, if it was an assembled a/c. It's not. As I said, the individual components are complete, but the cage is bare; not mounted to the big tube, and nothing is attached to anything else. Right now it's just a big quickbuild kit. :-) If the wings are around 15', it would seem that it's doable on the 8' trailer if I use a bit of overhang on both ends. Charlie On 3/18/2017 1:20 PM, Herb wrote: > > Charlie > > Find yourself a decent boat trailer...reinstall the wings and > support them at the rear...three or four feet in front of the tail... > lay a 2x12 toward the front to hold the main gear...same at the rear > with a pedstal that is well cushioned to hold the boom > tube...roll/lift it on and fold the wings last...I use good strength , > winching type straps to hold the wheels and 2/12's in place..Herb > > > On 03/18/2017 01:11 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >> On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >>> >>> >>> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a >>> standard pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a >>> U-Haul car trailer. >>> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >>> >>> Bill Sullivan >>> Windsor Locks, Ct. >>> >> It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the >> paperwork front. >> >> I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, >> but it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really >> want to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to >> pull behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling >> something as heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive >> really quick; the plane is ~600 miles away. >> >> If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. Are you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road transport of the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support the wing weight on a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that would simplify my task considerably. The rest of the stuff I can deal with, but the wings concern me. I was envisioning something more like a couple of heavily padded shelves as big as the wing(s). On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: > Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find something fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff like the engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in good wing rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and cover well. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of my shop wing rack. > > > Have a great day! > >> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively searching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying project a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassembled. >> >> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're complete but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & repainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >> >> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: road transport question
Date: Mar 18, 2017
We use 4" foam rubber Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 18, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. A re you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road transport of the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support the wing weight o n a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that would simplify my task c onsiderably. The rest of the stuff I can deal with, but the wings concern me . I was envisioning something more like a couple of heavily padded shelves a s big as the wing(s). > >> On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: >> Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somet hing fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff li ke the engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in goo d wing rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and co ver well. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of my shop wing rack. >> >> >> Have a great day! >> >>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wro te: >>> >>> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively s earching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying proj ect a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemb led. >>> >>> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're comple te but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & rep ainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size c ar towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts / UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tub e. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >>> >>> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Charlie > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Subject: Re: road transport question
I would actually prefer either adding a couple more straps inboard to this d esign. I would use some dense foam where the leading edges rest. I'd use som e light straps to hold the wings in place. Wings need to be covered to keep a ir blast from go in between. Have a great day! George ( Maddog ) > On Mar 18, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. A re you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road transport of the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support the wing weight o n a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that would simplify my task c onsiderably. The rest of the stuff I can deal with, but the wings concern me . I was envisioning something more like a couple of heavily padded shelves a s big as the wing(s). > >> On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: >> Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somet hing fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff li ke the engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in goo d wing rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and co ver well. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of my shop wing rack. >> >> >> Have a great day! >> >>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wro te: >>> >>> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively s earching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying proj ect a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemb led. >>> >>> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're comple te but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & rep ainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size c ar towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts / UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tub e. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >>> >>> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Charlie > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
My money is on the boat trailer. I brought home a Quicksilver from Wichita (to Saint Paul, MN) using a boat trailer and later brought home my Firefly on a boat trailer from New York. I think it cost me more in tolls than gas! -------- West1m Hastings, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467452#467452 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer2_597.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer1_128.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2017
Subject: Re: road transport question
My T-18 trailer actually looks a lot like that, except the axle is farther aft to support the weight of the T18's Lyc engine. Thanks for all the suggestions; I'll likely head down there with a stack of 2x4's, several sheets of plywood, and a trunk full of pads & foam sheets. Charlie On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:34 PM, west1m wrote: > > My money is on the boat trailer. I brought home a Quicksilver from Wichita > (to Saint Paul, MN) using a boat trailer and later brought home my Firefly > on a boat trailer from New York. I think it cost me more in tolls than gas! > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467452#467452 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer2_597.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer1_128.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Mar 19, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/18/17
Packed up many kolbs for transit. Trick is no matter what trailer or configuration, get a roll of cellophane plastic and wrap it up nice and tight and tape it with gorilla tape. Stays dry and wind doesnt whip it. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 19, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-18&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-18&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 03/18/17: 12 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 09:01 AM - road transport question (Charlie England) > 2. 09:38 AM - Re: road transport question (william sullivan) > 3. 11:10 AM - Re: road transport question (Charlie England) > 4. 11:21 AM - Re: road transport question (Herb) > 5. 11:38 AM - Re: road transport question (Larry Cottrell) > 6. 12:19 PM - Re: road transport question (George Helton) > 7. 01:49 PM - Re: road transport question (Charlie England) > 8. 01:56 PM - Re: road transport question (Charlie England) > 9. 02:02 PM - Re: road transport question (Gary Aman) > 10. 02:10 PM - Re: road transport question (George Helton) > 11. 02:34 PM - Re: road transport question (west1m) > 12. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: road transport question (Charlie England) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Kolb-List: road transport question > > Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively > searching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying > project a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely > disassembled. > > My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is > needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're > complete but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already > sandblasted & repainted). Could this project be transported using, for > instance, a mid size car towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically > used to haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the > wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size > concerns me. > > What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > > > Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard pickup truck, > with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car trailer. > Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. > > Bill Sullivan > Windsor Locks, Ct. > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 3/18/17, Charlie England wrote: > > Subject: Kolb-List: road transport question > Could this project be > transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing a > small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to > haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build > a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight > shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. > What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack > on it (no trailer)? > Thanks, > Charlie > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > > >> On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >> >> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard pickup > truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car trailer. >> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >> >> Bill Sullivan >> Windsor Locks, Ct. >> > It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the > paperwork front. > > I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, but > it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really want > to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to pull > behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling something as > heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really quick; the > plane is ~600 miles away. > > If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. > > Many thanks, > > Charlie > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > From: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> > > > Charlie > > Find yourself a decent boat trailer...reinstall the wings and support > them at the rear...three or four feet in front of the tail... lay a 2x12 > toward the front to hold the main gear...same at the rear with a pedstal > that is well cushioned to hold the boom tube...roll/lift it on and fold > the wings last...I use good strength , winching type straps to hold the > wheels and 2/12's in place..Herb > > >> On 03/18/2017 01:11 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >>> On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >>> >>> >>> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard >>> pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car >>> trailer. >>> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >>> >>> Bill >>> Sullivan >>> Windsor Locks, Ct. >>> >> It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the >> paperwork front. >> >> I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, >> but it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really >> want to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to >> pull behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling >> something as heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really >> quick; the plane is ~600 miles away. >> >> If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >> > > -- > "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies > give way to tyranny." > > Aristotle > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > > Charlie I pulled a 24 foot home made trailer with a firestar ii from > Lincoln Neb with a Subaru legacy to Klamath Falls Oregon. The key is - can > you keep the wings from being damaged. The cage and the rest should be no > problem. I hauled mine with it only folded. > Larry > > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Charlie England > wrote: > >> >>> On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >>> >>> williamtsullivan(at)att.net> >>> >>> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a standard >>> pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a U-Haul car >>> trailer. >>> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >>> >>> Bill Sullivan >>> Windsor >>> Locks, Ct. >>> >>> It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the >> paperwork front. >> >> I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, but >> it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really want to >> go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to pull behind a >> 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling something as heavy as a >> car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive really quick; the plane is ~600 >> miles away. >> >> If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Charlie >> >> > > > -- > *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of > others.* > > *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email > address before sending.* > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > > Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somethin > g fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff like t > he engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in good wi > ng rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and cover w > ell. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of m > y shop wing rack. > > > Have a great day! > >> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wrote > : >> >> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively sea > rching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying projec > t a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemble > d. >> >> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is n > eeded for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're complete > but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & repai > nted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car > towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ U > TV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I > know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >> >> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charlie > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > > > Sounds good, if it was an assembled a/c. It's not. As I said, the > individual components are complete, but the cage is bare; not mounted to > the big tube, and nothing is attached to anything else. Right now it's > just a big quickbuild kit. :-) > > If the wings are around 15', it would seem that it's doable on the 8' > trailer if I use a bit of overhang on both ends. > > Charlie > >> On 3/18/2017 1:20 PM, Herb wrote: >> >> Charlie >> >> Find yourself a decent boat trailer...reinstall the wings and >> support them at the rear...three or four feet in front of the tail... >> lay a 2x12 toward the front to hold the main gear...same at the rear >> with a pedstal that is well cushioned to hold the boom >> tube...roll/lift it on and fold the wings last...I use good strength , >> winching type straps to hold the wheels and 2/12's in place..Herb >> >> >>> On 03/18/2017 01:11 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/18/2017 11:34 AM, william sullivan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Ellery Batchelder had a couple of photos showing one on a >>>> standard pickup truck, with a rack. You could probably also use a >>>> U-Haul car trailer. >>>> Does the plane have an N number? if not, it might be a problem. >>>> >>>> Bill Sullivan >>>> Windsor Locks, Ct. >>>> >>> It is N numbered; belongs to a friend, so I'm fairly confident on the >>> paperwork front. >>> >>> I've got another trailer that was custom built to haul a Thorp T-18, >>> but it hasn't been on the road in at least 20 years so I don't really >>> want to go there... I'm trying for either something light enough to >>> pull behind a 4cyl car, or loaded in/on a rental pickup. Hauling >>> something as heavy as a car hauler trailer gets gas prohibitive >>> really quick; the plane is ~600 miles away. >>> >>> If it's been done on a pickup, my 5x8 trailer should work fine. >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> >>> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > > Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. > Are you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road > transport of the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support > the wing weight on a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that > would simplify my task considerably. The rest of the stuff I can deal > with, but the wings concern me. I was envisioning something more like a > couple of heavily padded shelves as big as the wing(s). > >> On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: >> Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find something > fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff like the > engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in good wing rack, > wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and cover well. > If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture of my shop > wing rack. >> >> >> Have a great day! >> >>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wrote: >>> >>> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively searching > for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying project a/c. > It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassembled. >>> >>> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is needed > for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're complete but > disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & repainted). > Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size car towing > a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts/ UTV's)? I'd > obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tube. I know weight > shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >>> >>> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Charlie > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ > > > From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > > We use 4" foam rubber > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >> >> Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. A > re you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road transport of > the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support the wing weight o > n a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that would simplify my task c > onsiderably. The rest of the stuff I can deal with, but the wings concern me > . I was envisioning something more like a couple of heavily padded shelves a > s big as the wing(s). >> >>> On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: >>> Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somet > hing fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff li > ke the engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in goo > d wing rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and co > ver well. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture > of my shop wing rack. >>> >>> >>> Have a great day! >>> >>>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wro > te: >>>> >>>> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively s > earching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying proj > ect a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemb > led. >>>> >>>> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is > needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're comple > te but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & rep > ainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size c > ar towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts > / UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tub > e. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >>>> >>>> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Charlie >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ > > > From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: road transport question > > I would actually prefer either adding a couple more straps inboard to this d > esign. I would use some dense foam where the leading edges rest. I'd use som > e light straps to hold the wings in place. Wings need to be covered to keep a > ir blast from go in between. > > Have a great day! > George ( Maddog ) >>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Charlie England wrote: >> >> >> Thanks for the pic; looks just like what we RV-x guys use for our wings. A > re you saying that the rack pictured would be adequate for road transport of > the wings? Are the leading edges strong enough to support the wing weight o > n a couple of 8-10" wide carpet strips? If so, that would simplify my task c > onsiderably. The rest of the stuff I can deal with, but the wings concern me > . I was envisioning something more like a couple of heavily padded shelves a > s big as the wing(s). >> >>> On 3/18/2017 2:19 PM, George Helton wrote: >>> Having owned, built and flown a twinstar. I'd say that I'd try find somet > hing fully enclosed. That being said, if you could put the cage and stuff li > ke the engine, etc. in the pickup bed? The wings could be transported in goo > d wing rack, wing facing forward towards the truck. Should really pad and co > ver well. If damage a wing it will be really bad news. Attached is a picture > of my shop wing rack. >>> >>> >>> Have a great day! >>> >>>> On Mar 18, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Charlie England wro > te: >>>> >>>> Well, after mostly lurking here for many years, and somewhat passively s > earching for a Kolb for most of that time, I've found a formerly flying proj > ect a/c. It's a complete 582 powered Twinstar, but it's completely disassemb > led. >>>> >>>> My question for those who have moved projects is this: How much space is > needed for transport? The wings & tail are still covered, so they're comple > te but disassembled. The cage is off the tailboom (already sandblasted & rep > ainted). Could this project be transported using, for instance, a mid size c > ar towing a small 5' x 8' utility trailer (typically used to haul golf carts > / UTV's)? I'd obviously need to build a rack for the wings/tail/fuselage tub > e. I know weight shouldn't be an issue, but size concerns me. >>>> >>>> What about a standard pickup truck, with a rack on it (no trailer)? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Charlie >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ > > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: road transport question > From: "west1m" <west1m(at)hotmail.com> > > > My money is on the boat trailer. I brought home a Quicksilver from Wichita (to > Saint Paul, MN) using a boat trailer and later brought home my Firefly on a boat > trailer from New York. I think it cost me more in tolls than gas! > > -------- > West1m > Hastings, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467452#467452 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer2_597.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer1_128.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ > > > From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: road transport question > > My T-18 trailer actually looks a lot like that, except the axle is farther > aft to support the weight of the T18's Lyc engine. > > Thanks for all the suggestions; I'll likely head down there with a stack > of 2x4's, several sheets of plywood, and a trunk full of pads & foam sheets. > > Charlie > >> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:34 PM, west1m wrote: >> >> >> My money is on the boat trailer. I brought home a Quicksilver from Wichita >> (to Saint Paul, MN) using a boat trailer and later brought home my Firefly >> on a boat trailer from New York. I think it cost me more in tolls than gas! >> >> -------- >> West1m >> Hastings, MN >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467452#467452 >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer2_597.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/trailer1_128.jpg >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: road transport question
From: "Mark K" <seanote(at)echoes.net>
Date: Mar 19, 2017
I was lucky enough that my brother-in-law had an enclosed trailer, about 16ft long that we used to go pick up my Twinstar MK II in Michigan. We supported the wings from the ceiling and strapped the cage, boom and tail feathers to the floor. The wings and tail feathers were covered and sealed and traveled very well. The wings just fit between the front wall and the big laydown rear door. -------- Mark Twinstar MKII Great Bend, PA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467459#467459 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/packed_594.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Miss P'fer Flies
Date: Mar 20, 2017
Got off my duff, went over to the airstrip, and did a little work and preflight on my nasty, dirty MKIII. Was a beautiful afternoon, however, I discovered it was windy and turbulent once I got above the trees. Did about 25 TO and Landings, 10 of those dead stick. Aircraft flew great despite a rusty pilot and hauling a ton of dirt around on her wings. Good to be back in the air again. Got an invite to join the Kolb gang at Sun and Fun this year. I'll be camping with my airplane on the Kolb Aircraft display as I have for several years now. Looking forward to flying down about the 3d of April. I think it starts on the 4th. Plan to fly out to the Rock House, in Oregon, in Sep for our annual Kolb flyin. I'll be celebrating 78 years. I think I can do it and enjoy some up close and personal time with just me and the MKIII on another transcontinental flight. I don't know how many of those I have done in this airplane since I first flew it in 1992. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Miss P'fer Flies
Congratulations on getting back in the air. Where exactly is the Rock House ? Depending on whether my Firestar is flying by then I might be able to attend. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3/20/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: Kolb-List: Miss P'fer Flies To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, March 20, 2017, 3:23 PM Miss P'fer Flies Got off my duff, went over to the airstrip, and did a little work and preflight on my nasty, dirty MKIII. Was a beautiful afternoon, however, I discovered it was windy and turbulent once I got above the trees. Did about 25 TO and Landings, 10 of those dead stick. Aircraft flew great despite a rusty pilot and hauling a ton of dirt around on her wings. Good to be back in the air again. Got an invite to join the Kolb gang at Sun and Fun this year. I'll be camping with my airplane on the Kolb Aircraft display as I have for several years now. Looking forward to flying down about the 3d of April. I think it starts on the 4th. Plan to fly out to the Rock House, in Oregon, in Sep for our annual Kolb flyin. I'll be celebrating 78 years. I think I can do it and enjoy some up close and personal time with just me and the MKIII on another transcontinental flight. I don't know how many of those I have done in this airplane since I first flew it in 1992. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2017
Subject: Re: Miss P'fer Flies
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Bill Berle wrote: > > Congratulations on getting back in the air. > > Where exactly is the Rock House ? Depending on whether my Firestar is > flying by then I might be able to attend. > > > Let me extend an invite to all of you on the Kolb list to join us at the > Rock House located in Jordan Valley Oregon this Sept 8th through the 16th. > You can even fly something else there if its necessary as long at they can > handle a 2800 foot dirt runway at 4000 feet elevation. If you decide to > come be sure to be self sufficent - Tents, emergency rations etc. There is > plenty of camping and parking space, water and electricity. Pool, Hot tub > and Sauna. I will try to have enough fuel on the premises to enable us to > fly, we can go get more if we need it. (260 miles round trip) Meals are > communal. > location is 42 40.419N 117 51.198 W If you look on Google Earth for 5070 Hwy 95 S,Jordan Valley,Or you should be able to see the place. "Yall" come, we'll have a grand ole time. Larry -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Miss P'fer Flies
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 20, 2017
Good for you. We brought the wings for the FF back from the airport today and washed off several years of dirt and bird poo. Dave wants to just fix them up, but I think I want to just go ahead and recover them. Might as well do it now, I might not feel like it next winter. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467481#467481 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
Got a guy in alabama near auburn looking for ultralight type folding aircraft to putt putt around. Need work, ok. Reply email Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 22, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/17: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb air craft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from Kolb a nd thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation on my Fi restar MK1. Have a great day! George Helton (Maddog) 14GDH > On Mar 22, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Ted Cowan wrote: > > > Got a guy in alabama near auburn looking for ultralight type folding aircr aft to putt putt around. Need work, ok. Reply email > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 22, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: >> >> * >> >> ========================= ======================== >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> ========================= ======================== >> >> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> HTML Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=htm l&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> Text Version: >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt &Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> >> ========================= ====================== >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> ========================= ====================== >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Kolb-List Digest Archive >> --- >> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/17: 0 >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Is the tail wheel being fabricated by Kolb Aircraft? john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17 There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation on my Firestar MK1. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
Yes it is John. It's kinda pricey at $130.00 plus I had to order the aluminum tail rod @ $33.00. But, my Firestar still has the old fiberglass rod. I not willing to trust it. I had a fail of one on my Twinstar MK2 and that was a lesson learned. Have a great day! > On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:34 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Is the tail wheel being fabricated by Kolb Aircraft? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:18 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17 > > There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb > aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from > Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation on > my Firestar MK1. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
What diameter is the wheel? Boyd y On Mar 22, 2017 6:29 PM, "George Helton" wrote: > There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb > aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from > Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation > on my Firestar MK1. > > > Have a great day! > George Helton (Maddog) > 14GDH > > > On Mar 22, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Ted Cowan wrote: > > > > > > Got a guy in alabama near auburn looking for ultralight type folding > aircraft to putt putt around. Need work, ok. Reply email > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Mar 22, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server < > kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > >> > >> * > >> > >> ================================================= > >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > >> ================================================= > >> > >> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > >> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >> > >> HTML Version: > >> > >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb > >> > >> Text Version: > >> > >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style > 82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb > >> > >> > >> =============================================== > >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > >> =============================================== > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> Kolb-List Digest Archive > >> --- > >> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/17: 0 > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> Today's Message Index: > >> ---------------------- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > =================================== > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
Date: Mar 22, 2017
I found the fiberglass tail wheel strut was extremely flexible, overly so. The aluminum rod will do a much better job. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17 Yes it is John. It's kinda pricey at $130.00 plus I had to order the aluminum tail rod @ $33.00. But, my Firestar still has the old fiberglass rod. I not willing to trust it. I had a fail of one on my Twinstar MK2 and that was a lesson learned. Have a great day! > On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:34 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Is the tail wheel being fabricated by Kolb Aircraft? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George > Helton > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:18 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17 > > There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of > Kolb aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel > assembly from Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it > prior to installation on my Firestar MK1. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
The new wheel is about the same as the old cookie cutter wheel at basically 6 ". But the new wheel is 1 1/8 inches wide. It comes with sealed bearing and n ew cable tension springs. Brian as at Kolb is interested in some feed back. It looks really great. I'l l let you know what I think down the road. George H. 14GDH Have a great day! > On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:57 PM, B Young wrote: > > What diameter is the wheel? > Boyd y > > >> On Mar 22, 2017 6:29 PM, "George Helton" wrote: >> There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb a ircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from Kol b and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation on my Firestar MK1. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Have a great day! >> George Helton (Maddog) >> 14GDH >> >> > On Mar 22, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Ted Cowan wrote: >> > >> > >> > Got a guy in alabama near auburn looking for ultralight type folding ai rcraft to putt putt around. Need work, ok. Reply email >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On Mar 22, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> >> ======================== ========================== >> >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> >> ======================== ========================== >> >> >> >> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest format ted >> >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexe s >> >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio n >> >> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View= html&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View= txt&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================== ======================= >> >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> >> ======================== ======================= >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Kolb-List Digest Archive >> >> --- >> >> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/17: 0 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
It appears to be similar to the breakaway that I bought for about $230 from I believe, Kolb several years ago. They did not build that one. Spruce carried them as well. If it works, it is a bargain and should be on every Kolb. Makes life a lot easier. Larry On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 7:18 PM, George Helton wrote: > The new wheel is about the same as the old cookie cutter wheel at > basically 6". But the new wheel is 1 1/8 inches wide. It comes with sealed > bearing and new cable tension springs. > Brian as at Kolb is interested in some feed back. It looks really great. > I'll let you know what I think down the road. > > George H. > 14GDH > > Have a great day! > > On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:57 PM, B Young wrote: > > What diameter is the wheel? > Boyd y > > On Mar 22, 2017 6:29 PM, "George Helton" wrote: > >> There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb >> aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from >> Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation >> on my Firestar MK1. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Have a great day! >> George Helton (Maddog) >> 14GDH >> >> > On Mar 22, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Ted Cowan wrote: >> > >> > >> > Got a guy in alabama near auburn looking for ultralight type folding >> aircraft to putt putt around. Need work, ok. Reply email >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On Mar 22, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server < >> kolb-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> >> ================================================= >> >> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> >> ================================================= >> >> >> >> Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> >> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >> formatted >> >> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes >> >> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version >> >> of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> >> such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> >> >> >> HTML Version: >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& >> View=html&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> >> >> Text Version: >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& >> View=txt&Chapter 17-03-21&Archive=Kolb >> >> >> >> >> >> =============================================== >> >> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> >> =============================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Kolb-List Digest Archive >> >> --- >> >> Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/17: 0 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> Today's Message Index: >> >> ---------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> ========== >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
From: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Feedback: My primary experience is with heavier homebuilts, so this might not be a concern with the lower landing speeds of Kolbs. But in heavier a/c, the springs are in compression instead of tension, and look more like the attached image (pulled from a search for 'storm door spring'). Reason for using this style is that if the spring itself breaks, the Kolb-supplied spring will release the tailwheel & you'll lose steering. With the storm door spring, the 'omega' shaped brackets looped through the spring capture the broken spring and the cable just has an extra inch of so of extra slack. They also limit spring travel. The Kolb-supplied spring has no limit, and will continue to expand if the pivot is sticky enough. FWIW, Charlie On 3/22/2017 8:18 PM, George Helton wrote: > The new wheel is about the same as the old cookie cutter wheel at > basically 6". But the new wheel is 1 1/8 inches wide. It comes with > sealed bearing and new cable tension springs. > Brian as at Kolb is interested in some feed back. It looks really > great. I'll let you know what I think down the road. > > George H. > 14GDH > > Have a great day! > > On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:57 PM, B Young > wrote: > >> What diameter is the wheel? >> Boyd y >> >> >> On Mar 22, 2017 6:29 PM, "George Helton" > > wrote: >> >> There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models >> of Kolb aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway >> tailwheel assembly from Kolb and thought I would share a few >> pictures of it prior to installation on my Firestar MK1. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Have a great day! >> George Helton (Maddog) >> 14GDH >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17
Date: Mar 22, 2017
Been using compression springs for a long time. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama\\\ From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/21/17 Feedback: My primary experience is with heavier homebuilts, so this might not be a concern with the lower landing speeds of Kolbs. But in heavier a/c, the springs are in compression instead of tension, and look more like the attached image (pulled from a search for 'storm door spring'). Reason for using this style is that if the spring itself breaks, the Kolb-supplied spring will release the tailwheel & you'll lose steering. With the storm door spring, the 'omega' shaped brackets looped through the spring capture the broken spring and the cable just has an extra inch of so of extra slack. They also limit spring travel. The Kolb-supplied spring has no limit, and will continue to expand if the pivot is sticky enough. FWIW, Charlie On 3/22/2017 8:18 PM, George Helton wrote: The new wheel is about the same as the old cookie cutter wheel at basically 6". But the new wheel is 1 1/8 inches wide. It comes with sealed bearing and new cable tension springs. Brian as at Kolb is interested in some feed back. It looks really great. I'll let you know what I think down the road. George H. 14GDH Have a great day! On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:57 PM, B Young wrote: What diameter is the wheel? Boyd y On Mar 22, 2017 6:29 PM, "George Helton" wrote: There were some here talking about new tailwheels for all models of Kolb aircraft. I ordered and received my new breakaway tailwheel assembly from Kolb and thought I would share a few pictures of it prior to installation on my Firestar MK1. Have a great day! George Helton (Maddog) 14GDH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: New Tailwheel
Compression springs on the tail steering make it so there is no tension or force applied to the system whent he pilot is not steering. Which means there is no wear on the hinges, bolts, etc. ALL the time like there is on a tension spring system. Compression springs are all-around much better for airplane use than tension springs. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Mar 23, 2017
Subject: Miss P'fer Flies
* Got an invite to join the Kolb gang at Sun and Fun this year. Plan to fly out to the Rock House, in Oregon, in Sep for our annual Kolb flyin. I'll be celebrating 78 years. I think I can do it and enjoy some up close and personal time with just me and the MKIII on another transcontinental flight. I don't know how many of those I have done in this airplane since I first flew it in 1992.Great news John! Do it! I'll be celebrating 78 as well, and if we don't do it now, when are we goin to do it??..I feel really fortunate to be still doin it at all.... Just take it a bit easier and don't push too hard... Have a great adventure, and treasure every bit of it!I still say you gotta write up some of those adventures, so we can all ride along.Cheers,JG* ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2017
Great day to be outside working on an airplane with your bud. Replaced the one bent wing strut attachment tang yesterday, today we rolled it out and trial fitted the wings. Mostly pretty good, one alignment problem, tomorrow I can call Bryan at the factory and promise to send him money, and he will invent and send me the part I need to fix it. Drug out the scales, maybe we might just barely be able to make Part 103. Right now it looks too close to call. Anybody got a good Hirth F-33 with redrive and electric start you want to trade for a good 447 with gearbox & prop? Here is what a Firefly looks like when you build it out of 3 separate airplanes: -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467560#467560 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050802_medium_178.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050801_medium_142.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050800_medium_167.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050799_medium_312.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050798_medium_143.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2017
Looking good Richard. What did it weigh? I'm headed to Kolb this afternoon to pick up the parts for my project. Hopefully I can start assembling and fitting everything together next week. Question...what is the position of the horizontal stabilizer to the boom tube? Drawing says 3/8" above tube. What is yours? -------- Jim P WAR EAGLE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467564#467564 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2017
From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
Looking very good. Looks about like what I ended up with on my original 5 rib Firestar. No photos- I had to let it go. But you are right about weight- everything has to be trimmed and weighed. And mine had a main tube that was one foot shorter than standard. Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Jack Hart? He is the current master of that. Bill Sullivan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 24, 2017
japowell wrote: > Looking good Richard. What did it weigh? I'm headed to Kolb this afternoon to pick up the parts for my project. Hopefully I can start assembling and fitting everything together next week. > > Question...what is the position of the horizontal stabilizer to the boom tube? Drawing says 3/8" above tube. What is yours? It weighs 274 on a very uncooperative and unreliable bathroom scale. Looks like we will be relying on that hand deployed parachute to make weight, even if it is no good for anything else. And the tail is 3/8" of an inch above the boom, because it is a recycled FSII tail and boom. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467572#467572 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2017
Thanks Richard. From the pics, it looked more than 3/8". Picked up the new nose cone, tail brackets and fuel tanks today. Bryan and Helen were great to visit with. Saw some nice planes and ask a lot of questions, hopefully I can remember all of the answers. -------- Jim P WAR EAGLE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467611#467611 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Mar 26, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/25/17
War eagle. Sounds like u are from auburn Alabama Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 26, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Kolb-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-03-25&Archive=Kolb > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-03-25&Archive=Kolb > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Kolb-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat 03/25/17: 1 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 05:55 PM - Re: Firefly progress (japowell) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly progress > From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com> > > > Thanks Richard. From the pics, it looked more than 3/8". Picked up the new nose > cone, tail brackets and fuel tanks today. Bryan and Helen were great to visit > with. Saw some nice planes and ask a lot of questions, hopefully I can remember > all of the answers. > > -------- > Jim P > WAR EAGLE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467611#467611 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 03/25/17
From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com>
Date: Mar 26, 2017
Actually Ted, I'm from Opelika. I visited you at your house several years ago when you were just finishing up the Slingshot. You were just getting ready to rebuild 'White Lightin' and put it up sor sale. Do you still have the chute for sale, if so how much? I'm rebuilding a FS II project that I bought from Richard Pike and having a ball doing it. Almost ready to start covering. -------- Jim P WAR EAGLE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467651#467651 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting
From: "KJ4CTZ" <Kj4ctz(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 28, 2017
Greetings, I have a 91 Kolb KXP with a Rotax 503 DCDI. The exhaust (Muffler) bracket was mounted to two Lord Mounts attached to 2 head bolts and the other side to the muffler bracket. This is a very poor mount and places a lot of stress on the Lord mounts. It looks terrible and if the mounts broke, well I do not even want to think about that! How have you guys mounted your Muffler systems? Are there any kits available to purchase for proper muffler mounting? Pictures of your Muffler mounting would certainly be appreciated. Thanks in advance I would really like to find this kit (see photo) It used to be produced by CPS in California but they no longer carry this product. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467774#467774 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/exhaust_kit_395.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2017
Subject: Re: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting
Well, can't say as I've ever seen or heard of problem with the standard mount system which is actually a Rotax suggested design. But without a picture of what you've got it's hard to tell? Your might check with Leading Edge Airfoils. They've been a good supplier of Rotax stuff for a lot of years. They're online. George H 14GDH Have a great day! > On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:01 PM, KJ4CTZ wrote: > > > Greetings, I have a 91 Kolb KXP with a Rotax 503 DCDI. The exhaust (Muffler) bracket was mounted to two Lord Mounts attached to 2 head bolts and the other side to the muffler bracket. This is a very poor mount and places a lot of stress on the Lord mounts. It looks terrible and if the mounts broke, well I do not even want to think about that! > > How have you guys mounted your Muffler systems? Are there any kits available to purchase for proper muffler mounting? Pictures of your Muffler mounting would certainly be appreciated. > > Thanks in advance > > I would really like to find this kit (see photo) It used to be produced by CPS in California but they no longer carry this product. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467774#467774 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/exhaust_kit_395.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>
Subject: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting
Date: Mar 29, 2017
Check out the pictures here: http://harnerfarm.net/serenity/engine.html This is a 447 but you might be able to do something similar to the 503. The factory supplied the big aluminum plate. I made up the rest of it. Post a picture of your current setup if you can. Stuart -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KJ4CTZ Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:01 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting Greetings, I have a 91 Kolb KXP with a Rotax 503 DCDI. The exhaust (Muffler) bracket was mounted to two Lord Mounts attached to 2 head bolts and the other side to the muffler bracket. This is a very poor mount and places a lot of stress on the Lord mounts. It looks terrible and if the mounts broke, well I do not even want to think about that! How have you guys mounted your Muffler systems? Are there any kits available to purchase for proper muffler mounting? Pictures of your Muffler mounting would certainly be appreciated. Thanks in advance I would really like to find this kit (see photo) It used to be produced by CPS in California but they no longer carry this product. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467774#467774 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/exhaust_kit_395.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting
From: Hoppy <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2017
Speaking of head bolts...re torquing at one hour is important...and I agree...the current method of attaching the exhaust has been working for over 30 years...likely on over 1000 planes...Herb On 03/29/2017 07:04 AM, George Helton wrote: > > Well, can't say as I've ever seen or heard of problem with the standard mount system which is actually a Rotax suggested design. But without a picture of what you've got it's hard to tell? Your might check with Leading Edge Airfoils. They've been a good supplier of Rotax stuff for a lot of years. They're online. > George H > 14GDH > > Have a great day! > >> On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:01 PM, KJ4CTZ wrote: >> >> >> Greetings, I have a 91 Kolb KXP with a Rotax 503 DCDI. The exhaust (Muffler) bracket was mounted to two Lord Mounts attached to 2 head bolts and the other side to the muffler bracket. This is a very poor mount and places a lot of stress on the Lord mounts. It looks terrible and if the mounts broke, well I do not even want to think about that! >> >> How have you guys mounted your Muffler systems? Are there any kits available to purchase for proper muffler mounting? Pictures of your Muffler mounting would certainly be appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> I would really like to find this kit (see photo) It used to be produced by CPS in California but they no longer carry this product. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467774#467774 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/exhaust_kit_395.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Help 503 side mount exhaust Muffler Mounting
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2017
The basis for our FF project started as a Firstar / 447 back in 1985, and while the original muffler bracket system does look terrible, it had held up with no problems. However all the bolts and rubber cushions were shot, and it seemed like a good time to do an upgrade. Here is how we redid it: Get a heavy duty muffler hangar kit from Advance or O'Reilly auto parts and use the rubber hangars. Now you can eliminate one of the original aluminum angles, you do need to weld a braced tab to the original bracket on the muffler. Also, I have never liked using the standard springs that hold the muffler to the header, so we converted to something less likely to break and go through the prop. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467799#467799 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ff1_161.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ff5_149.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ffsprings2_510.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: VG's
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Hi Folks: After 25 years, Miss P'fer, my MKIII, has VG's. I installed the VGs per John Gilpin's instructions, tips at 7%, 4.5 inches from the leading edge. Instead of installing the first 15 VGs from the outboard rib at 60mm and the rest inboard at 90mm spacing, I installed all of them at 60mm. The reason I did this is because they fit nicely in the valleys between the ribs and false ribs. They definitely lowered my stall speed and make landings a bit softer when I'm not on my game. I got a chance to do a little testing before the wind came up this morning. I'll learn more about the VG's as I fly. Haven't put them on the horizontal stabilizers. Right now, I don't see a need for them there. Maybe later. Ailerons seem to have a little more authority at slower speeds. Seem to feel sharper near the stall. If I can decipher my notes I'll give you all some numbers. Stalls were performed between 1000 and 3000 feet ASL. OAT was 60F. Aircraft loaded lightly. 10 gal fuel on board and 176 lb pilot. Numbers on the left are w/o VGs. On the right with VGs. Power off stall: Clean: 39 mph/33 to 34 mph Flaps, 20 deg: 32 mph/30 mph 40 deg: 30 mph/28 mph Biggest improvement was clean, power off. Stall reduced 5 to 6 mph. A little bit of difference with flaps, about 2 mph. Now when I get right to the edge of the stall I get a vibration in the prop, engine at idle, with a tiny shudder. I did not have this before VGs. BTW: Empty weight of my MKIII is 630 lbs. I didn't do any engine off stalls today. I'll check them out and see if there is a difference between dead stick and idling prop. Might have lost a little top end and cruise. Can't verify that at this time. I'll have to get some more time on the VGs to determine that. So far, I'm happy with the Stoll Speed VGs from John Gilpin, down under. I believe they will make my airplane a little safer. That never hurts. The wind kicked up before I had a chance to check out stall in ground effect on landing. I intentionally landed a little high, several times, but the VGs kept the MKIII from making that sharp break normally associated with landing a couple feet on the ground. That is a great improvement. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Subject: Re: VG's
Your numbers are very close to mine. With differences in Asi I think they are preforming good. The big difference in the vgs on the horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight. Boyd On Mar 31, 2017 12:11 PM, "John Hauck" wrote: > <<...>> > > Hi Folks: > > After 25 years, Miss P'fer, my MKIII, has VG's. > > I installed the VGs per John Gilpin's instructions, tips at 7%, 4.5 > inches from the leading edge. Instead of installing the first 15 VGs from > the outboard rib at 60mm and the rest inboard at 90mm spacing, I > installed all of them at 60mm. The reason I did this is because they fit > nicely in the valleys between the ribs and false ribs. > > They definitely lowered my stall speed and make landings a bit softer when > I'm not on my game. I got a chance to do a little testing before the > wind came up this morning. I'll learn more about the VG's as I fly. > Haven't put them on the horizontal stabilizers. Right now, I don't see a > need for them there. Maybe later. Ailerons seem to have a little more > authority at slower speeds. Seem to feel sharper near the stall. > > If I can decipher my notes I'll give you all some numbers. > > Stalls were performed between 1000 and 3000 feet ASL. OAT was 60F. > > Aircraft loaded lightly. 10 gal fuel on board and 176 lb pilot. > > Numbers on the left are w/o VGs. On the right with VGs. > > Power off stall: > > Clean: 39 mph/33 to 34 mph > > Flaps, 20 deg: 32 mph/30 mph > > 40 deg: 30 mph/28 mph > > Biggest improvement was clean, power off. Stall reduced 5 to 6 mph. A > little bit of difference with flaps, about 2 mph. > > Now when I get right to the edge of the stall I get a vibration in the > prop, engine at idle, with a tiny shudder. I did not have this before > VGs. > > BTW: Empty weight of my MKIII is 630 lbs. > > I didn't do any engine off stalls today. I'll check them out and see if > there is a difference between dead stick and idling prop. > > Might have lost a little top end and cruise. Can't verify that at this > time. I'll have to get some more time on the VGs to determine that. > > So far, I'm happy with the Stoll Speed VGs from John Gilpin, down under. > I believe they will make my airplane a little safer. That never hurts. > The wind kicked up before I had a chance to check out stall in ground > effect on landing. I intentionally landed a little high, several times, but > the VGs kept the MKIII from making that sharp break normally associated > with landing a couple feet on the ground. That is a great improvement. > > john h > > mkIII > > Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Subject: vg's
I have to admit that I am quite proud of you. Whether you believe it or not, the ones on the elevator do help t keep the tail flying and will also improve the landings. As I mentioned earlier, without them the tail feathers stall before the wing. Larry -- *The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.* *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: vg's
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Larry C/Kolbers: Thanks for the comment. For the moment, my tail is not stalling. ;-) However, I do have enough VGs to do the tail, plus I am thinking about doing the same thing to both entrance doors and maybe a few on the windshield. Just aft of the doors is dead air which can be seen when flying in the rain. Lots of dead air. Also, the area where the rear of the windshield meets the bottom of the center section. Have to figure out how to configure the VGs on the windshield to get that air to split and move around the dead space. Right now I am packing my gear to head to Lakeland. Plan on departing Gantt International Airport Tuesday morning, 4 April. Monday, my original departure date, is forecasting thunderstorms all day, plus the wind is to be strong out of the SE. Tuesday it turns around out of the W with lots of sunshine. Probably need to check calibration of my tachometer. Haven't done that in a while. They are easy to adjust with a tiny screw driver and an RC prop tach. I think the one I have had for years is a Busy Bee. Got it out of an RC catalog. This morning I was turning 5600 rpm WOT. 5400 would be better. Still gives me good climb and a little better cruise. However, 5600 at sea level is propped just right for flying out West. Since I plan to head West in September, I think I'll leave it along. Going back to horizontal stabilizer VGs for a moment, configured the way I am now, the tail wheel touches down (notice I didn't say hits) long before the mains, and Miss P'fer sits at a nice nose high stance. I could make the tail wheel hit even sooner and the nose higher, but don't know that I need to be doing that. However, the VGs on the wings may help soften/reduce the impact on the mains with a high nose, tail wheel first landing. Something to play around with. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 3:56 PM Subject: Kolb-List: vg's I have to admit that I am quite proud of you. Whether you believe it or not, the ones on the elevator do help t keep the tail flying and will also improve the landings. As I mentioned earlier, without them the tail feathers stall before the wing. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Sun and Fun 2017
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Got gear stacked in the living room ready for departure. Bag full of MREs and energy bars. Last night I checked out my most important piece of equipment, my pack stove. Without it I don't get coffee, I use Folgers Coffee Bags (like tea bags). When I take Mountain House Freeze Dried meals, I need two cups of boiling water to reconstitute them. Also topped off the fuel bottle. I have 1 liter and 1.5 liter fuel bottles to carry my naphtha (Coleman Fuel). For the one week trip to Lakeland I can get by with the smaller 1 liter bottle. Set up the tent in the front yard this afternoon. Learned that long time ago. Finding an unserviceable tent after a long day, when you're ready to go to bed, ain't much fun. If you don't use your tent but once or twice a year, it is a good exercise to familiarize yourself with erection procedure now (don't laugh) rather than try to relearn with an audience at Sun and Fun. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: vg's and related landing gear
John H it's great to hear a positive review of the VG's from a very highly experienced Kolb pilot. It validates all the "theory" and all of the "it should work" about VG's. Your comments and experiences will give me even more reason to try the VG's with confidence. Speaking of three point landings and hitting the tail... I have finally got my Kolb Slingshot gear legs slid into the gear socket tubes, and I'm waiting to verify wheel alignment and drill the bolt holes this Saturday hopefully. The fuselage is up on sawhorses, tail on the ground, to get this all mocked up and visualized before mounting the legs. With the long Slingshot legs, and the Desser 21 inch tires I plan to use, the angle of attack in three point attitude looks like it will be about 15 degrees or even a little more. Even higher ground angle than the Slingshot, because the Firestar has the wings mounted at a much higher angle (Angle of Incidence for you trained aero-scientists). It's a big increase over the stock Kolb ground attitude. John H was correct in a comment he made about this many months previously... I'm actually going to have to carry some sort of ladder or stool to climb into the cockpit ! I'm looking into a short "rope ladder" that is tied to the steel frame and stows under the seat, I should be able to make something that weighs under a pound. The VG's should help the Firestar fly at this high angle on takeoff and landing, which will allow me to shorten the takeoff and landing roll despite my aircraft and pilot weight which is heavier than average. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 3/31/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: vg's To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, March 31, 2017, 2:26 PM #yiv2429368301 #yiv2429368301 -- _filtered #yiv2429368301 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;} #yiv2429368301 #yiv2429368301 p.yiv2429368301MsoNormal, #yiv2429368301 li.yiv2429368301MsoNormal, #yiv2429368301 div.yiv2429368301MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv2429368301 a:link, #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2429368301 a:visited, #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv2429368301 .yiv2429368301MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv2429368301 div.yiv2429368301WordSection1 {} #yiv2429368301 Larry C/Kolbers: Thanks for the comment. For the moment, my tail is not stalling. ;-) However, I do have enough VGs to do the tail, plus I am thinking about doing the same thing to both entrance doors and maybe a few on the windshield. Just aft of the doors is dead air which can be seen when flying in the rain. Lots of dead air. Also, the area where the rear of the windshield meets the bottom of the center section. Have to figure out how to configure the VGs on the windshield to get that air to split and move around the dead space. Right now I am packing my gear to head to Lakeland. Plan on departing Gantt International Airport Tuesday morning, 4 April. Monday, my original departure date, is forecasting thunderstorms all day, plus the wind is to be strong out of the SE. Tuesday it turns around out of the W with lots of sunshine. Probably need to check calibration of my tachometer. Haven't done that in a while. They are easy to adjust with a tiny screw driver and an RC prop tach. I think the one I have had for years is a Busy Bee. Got it out of an RC catalog. This morning I was turning 5600 rpm WOT. 5400 would be better. Still gives me good climb and a little better cruise. However, 5600 at sea level is propped just right for flying out West. Since I plan to head West in September, I think I'll leave it along. Going back to horizontal stabilizer VGs for a moment, configured the way I am now, the tail wheel touches down (notice I didn't say hits) long before the mains, and Miss P'fer sits at a nice nose high stance. I could make the tail wheel hit even sooner and the nose higher, but don't know that I need to be doing that. However, the VGs on the wings may help soften/reduce the impact on the mains with a high nose, tail wheel first landing. Something to play around with. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 3:56 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: vg's I have to admit that I am quite proud of you. Whether you believe it or not, the ones on the elevator do help t keep the tail flying and will also improve the landings. As I mentioned earlier, without them the tail feathers stall before the wing. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: vg's and related landing gear
Date: Mar 31, 2017
To get into the aircraft, face away from the entrance door, step on the main gear tire, scoot your ass over the longeron and into the seat. ;-) Don't really need a ladder. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Berle Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 5:03 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: vg's and related landing gear John H it's great to hear a positive review of the VG's from a very highly experienced Kolb pilot. It validates all the "theory" and all of the "it should work" about VG's. Your comments and experiences will give me even more reason to try the VG's with confidence. Speaking of three point landings and hitting the tail... I have finally got my Kolb Slingshot gear legs slid into the gear socket tubes, and I'm waiting to verify wheel alignment and drill the bolt holes this Saturday hopefully. The fuselage is up on sawhorses, tail on the ground, to get this all mocked up and visualized before mounting the legs. With the long Slingshot legs, and the Desser 21 inch tires I plan to use, the angle of attack in three point attitude looks like it will be about 15 degrees or even a little more. Even higher ground angle than the Slingshot, because the Firestar has the wings mounted at a much higher angle (Angle of Incidence for you trained aero-scientists). It's a big increase over the stock Kolb ground attitude. John H was correct in a comment he made about this many months previously... I'm actually going to have to carry some sort of ladder or stool to climb into the cockpit ! I'm looking into a short "rope ladder" that is tied to the steel frame and stows under the seat, I should be able to make something that weighs under a pound. The VG's should help the Firestar fly at this high angle on takeoff and landing, which will allow me to shorten the takeoff and landing roll despite my aircraft and pilot weight which is heavier than average. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 3/31/17, John Hauck wrote: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: vg's To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Friday, March 31, 2017, 2:26 PM #yiv2429368301 #yiv2429368301 -- _filtered #yiv2429368301 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;} #yiv2429368301 #yiv2429368301 p.yiv2429368301MsoNormal, #yiv2429368301 li.yiv2429368301MsoNormal, #yiv2429368301 div.yiv2429368301MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv2429368301 a:link, #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2429368301 a:visited, #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2429368301 span.yiv2429368301EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv2429368301 .yiv2429368301MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv2429368301 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv2429368301 div.yiv2429368301WordSection1 {} #yiv2429368301 Larry C/Kolbers: Thanks for the comment. For the moment, my tail is not stalling. ;-) However, I do have enough VGs to do the tail, plus I am thinking about doing the same thing to both entrance doors and maybe a few on the windshield. Just aft of the doors is dead air which can be seen when flying in the rain. Lots of dead air. Also, the area where the rear of the windshield meets the bottom of the center section. Have to figure out how to configure the VGs on the windshield to get that air to split and move around the dead space. Right now I am packing my gear to head to Lakeland. Plan on departing Gantt International Airport Tuesday morning, 4 April. Monday, my original departure date, is forecasting thunderstorms all day, plus the wind is to be strong out of the SE. Tuesday it turns around out of the W with lots of sunshine. Probably need to check calibration of my tachometer. Haven't done that in a while. They are easy to adjust with a tiny screw driver and an RC prop tach. I think the one I have had for years is a Busy Bee. Got it out of an RC catalog. This morning I was turning 5600 rpm WOT. 5400 would be better. Still gives me good climb and a little better cruise. However, 5600 at sea level is propped just right for flying out West. Since I plan to head West in September, I think I'll leave it along. Going back to horizontal stabilizer VGs for a moment, configured the way I am now, the tail wheel touches down (notice I didn't say hits) long before the mains, and Miss P'fer sits at a nice nose high stance. I could make the tail wheel hit even sooner and the nose higher, but don't know that I need to be doing that. However, the VGs on the wings may help soften/reduce the impact on the mains with a high nose, tail wheel first landing. Something to play around with. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 3:56 PM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Kolb-List: vg's I have to admit that I am quite proud of you. Whether you believe it or not, the ones on the elevator do help t keep the tail flying and will also improve the landings. As I mentioned earlier, without them the tail feathers stall before the wing. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Kulp <undoctor(at)rcn.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Subject: Re: Sun and Fun 2017
Have a nice trip, John. I'm envious of you. Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com On March 31, 2017 6:48:56 PM "John Hauck" wrote: > Got gear stacked in the living room ready for departure. Bag full of MREs > and energy bars. Last night I checked out my most important piece of > equipment, my pack stove. Without it I don't get coffee, I use Folgers > Coffee Bags (like tea bags). When I take Mountain House Freeze Dried meals, > I need two cups of boiling water to reconstitute them. Also topped off the > fuel bottle. I have 1 liter and 1.5 liter fuel bottles to carry my naphtha > (Coleman Fuel). For the one week trip to Lakeland I can get by with the > smaller 1 liter bottle. > > Set up the tent in the front yard this afternoon. Learned that long time > ago. Finding an unserviceable tent after a long day, when you're ready to > go to bed, ain't much fun. If you don't use your tent but once or twice a > year, it is a good exercise to familiarize yourself with erection procedure > now (don't laugh) rather than try to relearn with an audience at Sun and > Fun. ;-) > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Subject: Re: VG's
I know it's been an odd winter, surely, but I really hadn't expected that Hell would freeze over so early in the spring, too. Ah, well, stranger things have happened. Good luck John and have fun. Rick Girard On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 1:20 PM, B Young wrote: > Your numbers are very close to mine. With differences in Asi I think > they are preforming good. The big difference in the vgs on the > horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight. > > Boyd > > On Mar 31, 2017 12:11 PM, "John Hauck" wrote: > >> <<...>> >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> After 25 years, Miss P'fer, my MKIII, has VG's. >> >> I installed the VGs per John Gilpin's instructions, tips at 7%, 4.5 >> inches from the leading edge. Instead of installing the first 15 VGs fr om >> the outboard rib at 60mm and the rest inboard at 90mm spacing, I >> installed all of them at 60mm. The reason I did this is because they fi t >> nicely in the valleys between the ribs and false ribs. >> >> They definitely lowered my stall speed and make landings a bit softer >> when I'm not on my game. I got a chance to do a little testing before >> the wind came up this morning. I'll learn more about the VG's as I fly. >> Haven't put them on the horizontal stabilizers. Right now, I don't see >> a need for them there. Maybe later. Ailerons seem to have a little mor e >> authority at slower speeds. Seem to feel sharper near the stall. >> >> If I can decipher my notes I'll give you all some numbers. >> >> Stalls were performed between 1000 and 3000 feet ASL. OAT was 60F. >> >> Aircraft loaded lightly. 10 gal fuel on board and 176 lb pilot. >> >> Numbers on the left are w/o VGs. On the right with VGs. >> >> Power off stall: >> >> Clean: 39 mph/33 to 34 mph >> >> Flaps, 20 deg: 32 mph/30 mph >> >> 40 deg: 30 mph/28 mph >> >> Biggest improvement was clean, power off. Stall reduced 5 to 6 mph. A >> little bit of difference with flaps, about 2 mph. >> >> Now when I get right to the edge of the stall I get a vibration in the >> prop, engine at idle, with a tiny shudder. I did not have this before >> VGs. >> >> BTW: Empty weight of my MKIII is 630 lbs. >> >> I didn't do any engine off stalls today. I'll check them out and see if >> there is a difference between dead stick and idling prop. >> >> Might have lost a little top end and cruise. Can't verify that at this >> time. I'll have to get some more time on the VGs to determine that. >> >> So far, I'm happy with the Stoll Speed VGs from John Gilpin, down under. >> I believe they will make my airplane a little safer. That never hurts. >> The wind kicked up before I had a chance to check out stall in ground >> effect on landing. I intentionally landed a little high, several times, but >> the VGs kept the MKIII from making that sharp break normally associated >> with landing a couple feet on the ground. That is a great improvement. >> >> john h >> >> mkIII >> >> Titus, Alabama >> >> >> >> -- =9CBlessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.=9D Groucho Marx <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/43244.Groucho_Marx> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2017
Subject: Re: VG's
I am glad that John finally gave in and put VG's on his plane. We all tend to forget that John has never said that he didn't like VG's, merely that he didn't need them. He is right, he really didn't need them for his landings, although there may be other benefits to them other than slowing stall speed. He enjoyed my Firestar with VG's and it changed it enough that it surprised him, but when you come down to it a Kolb with flaps really doesn't need VG's. You can see that with the results that both he and Boyd achieved. Very little improvement with full flaps. About 6 or more MPH without flaps. The reason of course is that the flaps changes the airfoil and thus the plane without tipping the wing back to the point that it loses the airflow. Give him hell any way. :-) Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Subject: VG's
Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: VG's I am glad that John finally gave in and put VG's on his plane. We all tend to forget that John has never said that he didn't like VG's, merely that he didn't need them. He is right, he really didn't need them for his landings, although there may be other benefits to them other than slowing stall speed. He enjoyed my Firestar with VG's and it changed it enough that it surprised him, but when you come down to it a Kolb with flaps really doesn't need VG's. You can see that with the results that both he and Boyd achieved. Very little improvement with full flaps. About 6 or more MPH without flaps. The reason of course is that the flaps changes the airfoil and thus the plane without tipping the wing back to the point that it loses the airflow. Larry -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Not Vg's
From: Hoppy <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
List Going over all of the goodies I have collected for the last 25 years...I find a set of MkIII plans...Regular collectors item...likely touched by Dennis and Homer!! :-) I was rebuilding a MkIII at the time and thought they might be helpful... Sell or trade for a bing carb for a 447 that is destined to go on the airbike I am building... also have a Culver prop that ran well on the 532 with b box(2.58 to 1) . Pusher from the MKIII. 66/44 A bit of history also...came from the Kolb quick build center at Stanton Ky back when..?? make offer.. also ...a three blade IVO, 60 inch B model ,in air adjustable ... fits 503 or 582 i am told...pusher..make offer... off list of course..!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Subject: Re: VG's
In my last post "The big difference in the vgs on the horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight." Should have added,,, that on my plane in the configuration ( see above) my cg is in the forward part of the cg range. And I used to loose elevator authority somewhere between 50 and 55 indicated. At that point I believe the elevator would stall, the nose would drop and I could hold that speed all the way to the ground. But could not developed enough lift to stop vertical descent unless I dropped the nose picked up more speed (65 +) then I could do a proper flair. My other option was to carry power. This created more air movement over the tail. With the vg's I can, at idle slow down till the wing stalls. At that point I can hold the plane in a level attitude, it enters into a mush with no tendency for a wing to drop. Releasing back pressure and I am back to flying in a second. My biggest regret is that I didn't install the vg's 900 flight hours ago. Btw when flying solo, I had no problems with any aspect of the handling. Boyd Sorry if that is more than you wanted to know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: VG's
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Kolbers: All these years and no VGs. The Kolb List accused me of "not liking VGs". ;-) What many failed to realize was...I have a very good flying MKIII without VGs. Miss P'fer breaks and touches down at 30 mph without them. She has no bad habits when it comes to stalling. She'll mush to the ground with complete roll and pitch control without VGs. She lands quite nicely with two up without stalling the elevators. Now...what I have is an even better handling MKIII. The ailerons are crisper, I get a little nibble/vibration from the prop (I think) just prior to stall (never had any noticeable warning prior to VGs), and the break in ground effect on landing is tamed somewhat. I could use a little landing taming now days. A 5 to 6 mph reduction in stall speed clean is no big deal, as is a 2 mph reduction in stall at 20 and 40 degrees of flaps. I think the big deal is a safer, improved handling, even more predictable handling for an already safe and great handling aircraft. John Gilpin's Stoll Speed VGs are worth every penny he is asking for them. They are easy to install and hardly noticeable after installation. The rounded VG and extremely small size shouldn't be a bother when I do my annual airplane wash. ;-) I'll get the VGs on the horizontal stabilizers to see how they will improve their function. Hope I am happily surprised with the results. Thanks for listening. john h mkIII - 3,384.1 hours 912ULS - 815.6 hours Gant International Airport Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Kolb-List: VG's In my last post "The big difference in the vgs on the horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight." Should have added,,, that on my plane in the configuration ( see above) my cg is in the forward part of the cg range. And I used to loose elevator authority somewhere between 50 and 55 indicated. At that point I believe the elevator would stall, the nose would drop and I could hold that speed all the way to the ground. But could not developed enough lift to stop vertical descent unless I dropped the nose picked up more speed (65 +) then I could do a proper flair. My other option was to carry power. This created more air movement over the tail. With the vg's I can, at idle slow down till the wing stalls. At that point I can hold the plane in a level attitude, it enters into a mush with no tendency for a wing to drop. Releasing back pressure and I am back to flying in a second. My biggest regret is that I didn't install the vg's 900 flight hours ago. Btw when flying solo, I had no problems with any aspect of the handling. Boyd Sorry if that is more than you wanted to know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Now it is officially a FireFly. With a Shout Out to Andy who did it! -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467929#467929 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050845_medium_130.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050843_medium_211.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050847_medium_164.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050853_medium_753.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander(at)att.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Richard Pike wrote: > Now it is officially a FireFly. With a Shout Out to Andy who did it! Very creative nose art Bro Pike! -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://www.oh2fly.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467930#467930 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Subject: Re: Firestar project returns home
After having helped build this Firestar, #FS100 (Homer's era,1985) it has re turned to me as mine. The unit has been sealed inside a Wellcargo trailer fo r the last 28 years in Southern California. It is in prefect condition. It's a long story. I'll be doing the finish restoration on it beginning tomorrow. I hope to hav e it flying again by the end of June. I have built and flown a Twinstar sinc e helping with this airplane. But have never had the opportunity to fly this one so I'm very much looking forward to it. Have a great day! George H. 14GDH > On Apr 1, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > Now it is officially a FireFly. With a Shout Out to Andy who did it! > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467929#467929 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050845_medium_130.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050843_medium_211.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050847_medium_164.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050853_medium_753.jpg > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "japowell" <japnmjp(at)twc.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
I like. That really set off the color. Caught a lot of 'lightning bugs' in my day. When will you test fly it? Waiting on flight report eagerly. Enjoy, Jim P. -------- Jim P WAR EAGLE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467934#467934 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!!
From: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Greetings Kolbers, Long time no see! I just dropped Matronics to check the RV list, as I bought an RV9A last month. Not much action there so I thought I would sneek a peek at The Kolb List. Really great to see all the familiar names! John, Richard, Larry, Denny, Herb, Geez..I feel like I am at a reunion! And John, putting those porcupine thingies on Miss P'fer! hehe.. finally! I remember when I put them on the FlagFly, and how they helped, for I built it a bit heavy and the VG's helped her in slow flight and landing...or should I say helped me? Anyway, Great to see all you guys still active in the Kolb world, and you who are going to lakeland, have a safe flight, and a great time at the show! BTW, have nice restored Luscombe 8A for sale, as well as a 912 Kitfox speedster...PM me if interested..and..I Might take a single seat Kolb in trade if the deal is right! Don -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A RV9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467935#467935 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
Did you put VG's on it yet? I will be interested in the number with that wing and the VG's Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Firefly progress
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 01, 2017
lcottrell wrote: > Did you put VG's on it yet? I will be interested in the number with > that wing and the VG's > Larry The plan is to fly it and see how it does. Assuming that all is good, then we pull the wings back off and recover them with Oratex. The wings have been closed up since they were originally built in 1985, and they need to be opened up and examined. Assuming that all is good and we are planning to keep this bird, they get recovered in Oratex and then the VG's go on. After we have flown it w/o them. Will be interesting to see how it does with fresh covering, and then again with vg's to boot. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467938#467938 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Peter Cowan <cowan.phc(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
Hello people. Could someone help me understand the concept of the tail stalling and how it is recognized? I've flown for many years in many different types (although not yet but soon in a Kolb) and admit I am confused. When the wing stalls, the nose drops. I have experienced this a few times. Apparently (and correctly since the tail's functions is to provide a downward force) when the tail stalls, the nose drops. How do I tell what the cause is of the nose drop? Please help me to get this. thanks Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "racerjerry" <gnking2(at)verizon.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Try Google: "Tail Stall". >From what (little) I understand, tail stalls are usually due to ice accumulation on the elevator. Very hard pull in flaring for landing COULD cause a tail plane stall. Any condition that requires additional back pressure on the stick increases the likelihood of a tail stall. For example, some airplanes pitch down when flaps are extended, requiring additional back pressure (or trim). Extreme nose heavy condition (forward CG) will also increase this tendency. I hear that a wing stall is felt as a buffet through the entire airplane, while buffeting through the yoke is indicative of a tail stall. If tail stall is suspected, recover by DECREASING power, raising flaps and relaxing stick pressure. On a Kolb, as long as you do a proper weight & balance calculation (weigh with YOU in the airplane) to insure that the CG is within allowable limits, a tail stall should never be a problem. Jerry King -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467947#467947 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vg's for Miss P'fer!!!
From: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Thanks Bill, Yea, My brother put that video up..cause I didnt know how. I dont even have a link that works for it an longer. That bird is why I am looking for another Kolb for local flights and just plain old enjoying altitude when I get a hour or so spare.. Ive owned alot of airplanes in my 40 years of aviating, and I miss that one the most! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A RV9A Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467959#467959 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: VGs Horizontal Stabilizer
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Got the VGs on the horizontal stabilizers. Think I ended up with 31 or 32 on each side, 30mm spacing, 4" to the noses from the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizers, per John Gilpin's, Stoll Speed, instructions. It was windy and rough when I flew an hour this afternoon. However, I did a lot of landings, and a handful of dead stick landings. The aircraft makes nice gentle landings despite my club fisted hand on the stick. I didn't have a problem with elevator stall prior to installation, but I do sense of improvement over what I had them installed. All in all, a safer more forgiving aircraft over an aircraft that was already safe and forgiving. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 503 mount
From: "rayring" <rayring(at)windstream.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring(at)windstream.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Subject: Re: 503 mount
Try Kolb Aircraft. Larry On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 5:48 PM, rayring wrote: > > would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. > Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring(at)windstream.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 > > -- The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others. If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: 503 mount
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Kolb Aircraft has them. Kolb needs all the support we can give them. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayring Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 6:48 PM Subject: Kolb-List: 503 mount would anyone have a 503 mounting plate for sale. To fit a Mark III classic. Using lord mounts with AN6 bolt hole. email rayring(at)windstream.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467965#467965 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Regardless of the size of the passengers I have carried in my MKIII, I have never had an instance of having the tail stall and the nose drop, so I'm not sure that "tail stall" is the best way to describe what happens in a Kolb. So let me just tell you the before and after of what does happen: in a MKIII Classic, (and maybe the Xtra too? I dunnoe) all the useful load is ahead of the CG. So when you add a passenger, you need up elevator trim. Or aft stick. Or both. So far, so good. Now add in a bunch of flaps (and the MKIII has a BUNCH of flaps) and you have increased lift and drag, and also moved the center of lift further aft. The airplane is now effectively nose heavier. If you are a lad who has not missed many meals and you are taking Bubba for a ride, the tail is now working fairly hard to hold the nose up. Here is a prime example of how this plays out in real life: solo, I shoot an approach on a calm day, 30 degrees of flaps, at 45 indicated. No problem, with VG's on the wing the stall comes at 28 indicated. Now I put Bubba in there with me, or maybe even his little brother instead of Bubba, and I shoot an approach, under power, at 45 indicated. I am carrying 30 degrees of flaps. I am holding a certain amount of back stick, enough to keep the approach and sink rate constant. When I get down to about 2 feet off the strip, I pull back on the stick to flare, the elevators rise, and nothing happens. I maintain the same angle of attack that I had before. The elevators have nothing more to contribute. Now I gap seal the elevators to the stab and add VG's. This allows me to shoot the approach with Bubba and flaps and still be able to flare. Gap sealing the elevators to the stab and adding VG's allows the elevators to work a bit harder for a bit longer. Was the tail stalled w/o the gap seal and VG's? Probably not, it just wasn't able to be as effective. Anyway, that has been my experience, and as Beauford (Boy, I miss him!) used to say; worth what ya paid fer it. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467970#467970 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Subject: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available f rom Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 tha t I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had the o ld cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone to fai lure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. I'll finish the project tomorrow with the installation of new rudder horn to tailwheel springs. You could also use some short compression type springs i f you'd prefer? George H. 14GDH gdhelton(at)gmail.com Mesick, Michigan Have a great day! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "phcpilot" <cowan.phc(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
Thanks Richard. That sounds reasonable. Jerry I believe that icing on the tail thing was the only explanation I could locate last time I looked into this. Richard, what engine do you have and did you just tape the elevator gap? Peter Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467973#467973 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
Date: Apr 02, 2017
The old tail wheel failed? not the new one? john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 that I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2017
The MKIII has a 582, B box, 2.58:1, 68" Ivoprop. I gap sealed the elevator to the stab with clear tape, be sure you put a narrow piece of tape on the wide tape down the middle to keep it from collecting dirt. And still plan to replace it every couple years; it gets nasty. Details here: http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/Vortex%20Generators.html -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467975#467975 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: Lanny Lambdin <lambdinwilliam(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Hey Guys, My name is Lanny Lambdin and I have been monitoring the site for a while now. ( I have a Challenger II that is hard for my wife to get in and out of - and as I get older, same goes for me-so I have been thinking about the Kolb MIII as an easier ride) Anyway, as I have read the concerns about the tail hitting first followed by the nose dropping, I was reminded of my Loehle Sport Parasol flight characteristics. It has a listed stall speed of about 30mph, but you can not land at that speed. You can fly at 30 with lots of power and angle of attack, but it you try to land in that configuration the tail wheel will hit first and then the nose will plop down harder than you'd like. Not sure if some may be experiencing something similar in your Kolb.. Thanks for good conversation and info, Lanny Sent from my iPad > On Apr 2, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Peter Cowan wrote: > > Hello people. > Could someone help me understand the concept of the tail stalling and how it is recognized? I've flown for many years in many different types (although not yet but soon in a Kolb) and admit I am confused. > > When the wing stalls, the nose drops. I have experienced this a few times. > Apparently (and correctly since the tail's functions is to provide a downward force) when the tail stalls, the nose drops. > > How do I tell what the cause is of the nose drop? > > Please help me to get this. > thanks > Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
Correct, the old tailwheels were installed by using JB weld as was the tailw heel rod into lower vertical stabilizer/ rudder post. It's a real job drilli ng it out. I installed the new rod with one AN bolt and coated the inside of each receiver tube with silicone to seal out moisture. Here's a before and after picture. George H. Firestar MK1, FS#100 14GDH gdhelton(at)gmail.com Mesick, Michigan Have a great day! > On Apr 2, 2017, at 11:34 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > The old tail wheel failed? not the new one? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton > Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel > > I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available > from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 > that I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had > the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone > to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
[quote="lambdinwilliam(at)gmail.c"]Hey Guys, My name is Lanny Lambdin and I have been monitoring the site for a while now. ( I have a Challenger II that is hard for my wife to get in and out of - and as I get older, same goes for me-so I have been thinking about the Kolb MIII as an easier ride) Anyway, as I have read the concerns about the tail hitting first followed by the nose dropping, I was reminded of my Loehle Sport Parasol flight characteristics. It has a listed stall speed of about 30mph, but you can not land at that speed. You can fly at 30 with lots of power and angle of attack, but it you try to land in that configuration the tail wheel will hit first and then the nose will plop down harder than you'd like. Not sure if some may be experiencing something similar in your Kolb.. Thanks for good conversation and info, Lanny Sent from my iPad [quote] With VG's on the wing, you can land tailwheel first, and the first few times you land with VG's, you might surprise yourself into doing it, I quit doing it years ago... didn't much care for it... but it is an option if you like that sort of thing. Concerning your description of your wife trying to get out of the Challenger: before I got the MKIII, we drove to North Carolina to visit a Challenger dealer to see one close up, and my wife eventually was able to get into it, and then the sale was lost. A round lady with both legs around the front seat, and 4 lift struts all in the wrong place for normal egress. The expression on the dealers face said it all, and then my friend who had gone with us stuck a fork in it when he said "You could go to fly-in's and sell tickets to people so they could watch her try and get out - you ought to have it paid off by next year." -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467989#467989 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2017
From: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
I want to have an accurate answer on this because I just received my new breakaway tailwheel from Kolb. George, WHICH TAILWHEEL FAILED ??? Did the old one fail or did the new one fail? Please be specific, because I'm not nearly as smart as the rest of the people on the Kolb list. Bill Berle www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 4/3/17, George Helton wrote: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, April 3, 2017, 5:57 AM Correct, the old tailwheels were installed by using JB weld as was the tailwheel rod into lower vertical stabilizer/ rudder post. It's a real job drilling it out. I installed the new rod with one AN bolt and coated the inside of each receiver tube with silicone to seal out moisture. Here's a before and after picture. George H. Firestar MK1, FS#100 14GDH gdhelton(at)gmail.com Mesick, Michigan Have a great day! > On Apr 2, 2017, at 11:34 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > The old tail wheel failed? not the new one? > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Helton > Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel > > I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel assembly available > from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I knew that Firestar 1 > that I was picking up from California and bring back home to Michigan had > the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail rod which are prone > to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded the aircraft. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
To all, I guess the tail stall may be my ball of wax, let me make one more stab at it..... I have described what I have experienced as tail stall. With some information received off list, I will make another option available. When flying with a passenger, I could only generate enough down force to slow my mkiii to 15 to 20 MPH above the speed the wing stalls. I've called this tail stall. I guess to be able to defiantly call it tail stall I should tuft the bottom of the elevators. Then there would be no question. The alternative possibly could be that the horizontal stabilizer and the elevators may not be stalling, but it may be that the control surfaces may be too small to provide the down force necessary. Up untill the time I installed vgs I would have said that either explanation was plausible. As soon as i installed the vgs on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer,,, I instantly had enough down force to hold the plane in a level attitude until the wing stalls. That would indicate to me that the control surfaces were large enough. The vgs have kept the air attached so that the elevators can work to their potential. Had the vgs made no difference, I would have decided that the control surfaces were too small. I spent some time at the computer and re did my w&b. Cg limits per the plan are 25 to 35 percent of wing cord. When experiencing insufficient down force, my cg calculated to 26.66. within the limits. My conclusion is that you eliminate tail stall, there are 3 ways that I have come up with,,, (maybe 4) 1. Install larger horizontals and elevators. 2. Install vgs. 3. Limit your passenger's weight. 4. Add more physical weight to the tail.(thus applying more down force by gravity in lieu of aero dynamics) I understand that men are deep thinkers, and maybe I have over thought this. Larry stop laughing! Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: : VG's: VG's
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Add a little airspeed when flying healthy passengers. Last thing I would do is add weight to my airplane to counteract ineffective tail. However, I have added plenty of weight to Miss P'fer for many other reasons. ;-) john h mkIII Titus, Alabama From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: : VG's: VG's To all, I guess the tail stall may be my ball of wax, let me make one more stab at it..... I have described what I have experienced as tail stall. With some information received off list, I will make another option available. When flying with a passenger, I could only generate enough down force to slow my mkiii to 15 to 20 MPH above the speed the wing stalls. I've called this tail stall. I guess to be able to defiantly call it tail stall I should tuft the bottom of the elevators. Then there would be no question. The alternative possibly could be that the horizontal stabilizer and the elevators may not be stalling, but it may be that the control surfaces may be too small to provide the down force necessary. Up untill the time I installed vgs I would have said that either explanation was plausible. As soon as i installed the vgs on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer,,, I instantly had enough down force to hold the plane in a level attitude until the wing stalls. That would indicate to me that the control surfaces were large enough. The vgs have kept the air attached so that the elevators can work to their potential. Had the vgs made no difference, I would have decided that the control surfaces were too small. I spent some time at the computer and re did my w&b. Cg limits per the plan are 25 to 35 percent of wing cord. When experiencing insufficient down force, my cg calculated to 26.66. within the limits. My conclusion is that you eliminate tail stall, there are 3 ways that I have come up with,,, (maybe 4) 1. Install larger horizontals and elevators. 2. Install vgs. 3. Limit your passenger's weight. 4. Add more physical weight to the tail.(thus applying more down force by gravity in lieu of aero dynamics) I understand that men are deep thinkers, and maybe I have over thought this. Larry stop laughing! Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Subject: Re: Kolb breakaway tailwheel
It was the OLD TAILWHEEL that failed. And to make it clear, it's not the tai lwheel itself that fails. It's the old fiberglass shaft/ rod that fails or t he JB weld that they use to use to mount the wheel assembly. My plane was or iginally built in 1985/86. They didn't use 7075 T7 aluminum tailwheel rods b ack then. George H. Firestar MK1, #FS100 gdhelton(at)gmail.com Mesick, Michigan Have a great day! > On Apr 3, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Bill Berle wrote: > > > I want to have an accurate answer on this because I just received my new b reakaway tailwheel from Kolb. > > George, WHICH TAILWHEEL FAILED ??? > > Did the old one fail or did the new one fail? > > Please be specific, because I'm not nearly as smart as the rest of the peo ple on the Kolb list. > > Bill Berle > www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft > www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-pro fit entities > > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 4/3/17, George Helton wrote: > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, April 3, 2017, 5:57 AM > > Correct, the old tailwheels were > installed by using JB weld as was the tailwheel rod into > lower vertical stabilizer/ rudder post. It's a real job > drilling it out. I installed the new rod with one AN bolt > and coated the inside of each receiver tube with silicone to > seal out moisture. > > Here's a before and after picture. > > George H. > Firestar MK1, FS#100 > 14GDH > gdhelton(at)gmail.com > Mesick, Michigan > > Have a great day! > >> On Apr 2, 2017, at 11:34 PM, John Hauck > wrote: >> >> >> The old tail wheel failed? not the new one? >> >> john h >> mkIII >> Titus, Alabama >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] > On Behalf Of George Helton >> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 9:25 PM >> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb breakaway tailwheel >> >> I'm enclosing a couple of pictures of the new tailwheel > assembly available >> from Kolb Aircraft LLC. I had ordered this because I > knew that Firestar 1 >> that I was picking up from California and bring back > home to Michigan had >> the old cookie cutter wheel w/ the old fiberglass tail > rod which are prone >> to failure. This one failed the day after I unloaded > the aircraft. >> >> >> >> > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
"""You can fly at 30 with lots of power and angle of attack, but it you try to land in that configuration the tail wheel will hit first and then the nose will plop down harder than you'd like. Not sure if some may be experiencing something similar in your Kolb..'""" Yes I experienced this a lot when I first flew my mkiii. I installed longer landing gear, went from 600/6/15 tires to 600/6, then 800/6 tires.. each made an improvement. The vgs give me more angle of attack when landing, and the tail wheel is easier to set down first again. But the larger tires absorbed the bump better. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: Lanny Lambdin <lambdinwilliam(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Yeah, that comment made for a certain no-deal! Lanny Sent from my iPad > On Apr 3, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Richard Pike wrote: > > > [quote="lambdinwilliam(at)gmail.c"]Hey Guys, > My name is Lanny Lambdin and I have been monitoring the site for a while now. ( I have a Challenger II that is hard for my wife to get in and out of - and as I get older, same goes for me-so I have been thinking about the Kolb MIII as an easier ride) > > Anyway, as I have read the concerns about the tail hitting first followed by the nose dropping, I was reminded of my Loehle Sport Parasol flight characteristics. It has a listed stall speed of about 30mph, but you can not land at that speed. You can fly at 30 with lots of power and angle of attack, but it you try to land in that configuration the tail wheel will hit first and then the nose will plop down harder than you'd like. Not sure if some may be experiencing something similar in your Kolb.. > > Thanks for good conversation and info, > > Lanny > > Sent from my iPad > > [quote] > > With VG's on the wing, you can land tailwheel first, and the first few times you land with VG's, you might surprise yourself into doing it, I quit doing it years ago... didn't much care for it... but it is an option if you like that sort of thing. > > Concerning your description of your wife trying to get out of the Challenger: before I got the MKIII, we drove to North Carolina to visit a Challenger dealer to see one close up, and my wife eventually was able to get into it, and then the sale was lost. A round lady with both legs around the front seat, and 4 lift struts all in the wrong place for normal egress. The expression on the dealers face said it all, and then my friend who had gone with us stuck a fork in it when he said "You could go to fly-in's and sell tickets to people so they could watch her try and get out - you ought to have it paid off by next year." > > -------- > Richard Pike > Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > Kingsport, TN 3TN0 > > Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467989#467989 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: "Frankd" <FDucker(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Hello group, I have been reading and learning about the topic of Tail Stall.. thank you all. I fly a MkIII Xtra and limit my passengers to 200Lbs or less, because of the issue with losing elevator authority during flare. I did not think "Tail Stall" existed but maybe I am wrong. Technically, if a stall is where the air separates from the surface of a wing (or tail) then perhaps that is what is happening when I have a heavy passenger. This passenger moves the CG forward and this weight shift is offset by the use of "Up" elevator. When landing and decreasing the airspeed the airflow over the elevator in a full "UP" position could separate from the underside of the elevator and that would explain why adding more back stick does nothing.. All the remedies support this theory:- a/ Add a gap seal - keeps the airflow flowing from top of Horz. Stab to bottom of elevator b/ Add VG's to bottom of Horz Stab - keep the air attached to the bottom of the elevator when the stick is full back thus making the elevator more effective c/ Land faster - the faster airflow over the elevator increases authority with less back pressure, thus reducing airflow separation. d/ move the CG back. Some aircraft have weight boxes in the tail so that CG is controlled by adding a small weight on a long lever, effectively offsetting the passenger weight somewhat , reducing the workload on the elevator and making it more effective with smaller stick movements. (I have not tried this but am thinking of moving one of my fuel tanks to a back position when flying passengers to see what happens. ) I usually land a little faster and it has not been a big deal, but it is real.. Thanks again for making me think about it and visualize what may be happening in real life. In the end , understanding the effects and being ready makes one fly safer. Happy landings FrankD N1014S, MkIII Xtra Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468002#468002 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Only makes sense to land faster when your aircraft is heavier. Stall speed is higher when carrying a passenger, take off speed has to be increased. With the engine at idle, full flaps, there is less air moving over the tail and what is moving is being deflected downward from the flaps and away from the tail. The last few days of flying I have discovered, with my airplane, better performance with 20 deg of flaps rather than 40 deg. About the only advantage of 40 deg is added deceleration and increased decent, which comes in handy when required. I've been flying this airplane for 25 years and just now come to that conclusion. Maybe the change in my mind is the addition of VGs. I don't know. Giving a demo flight in my MKIII at Lakeland some years ago, I was able to easily lose all elevator authority, almost without trying. We were out horsing around, I told my passenger, "Let's try a steep dive to about 85 mph and a hard pull up with full flaps." We had already done the same clean. To my surprise, when I pulled back on the stick the aircraft continued straight down until I pulled up the flaps and then back on the stick. A good demonstration of the flaps stealing air from the tail. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frankd Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 6:37 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's Hello group, I have been reading and learning about the topic of Tail Stall.. thank you all. I fly a MkIII Xtra and limit my passengers to 200Lbs or less, because of the issue with losing elevator authority during flare. I did not think "Tail Stall" existed but maybe I am wrong. Technically, if a stall is where the air separates from the surface of a wing (or tail) then perhaps that is what is happening when I have a heavy passenger. This passenger moves the CG forward and this weight shift is offset by the use of "Up" elevator. When landing and decreasing the airspeed the airflow over the elevator in a full "UP" position could separate from the underside of the elevator and that would explain why adding more back stick does nothing.. All the remedies support this theory:- a/ Add a gap seal - keeps the airflow flowing from top of Horz. Stab to bottom of elevator b/ Add VG's to bottom of Horz Stab - keep the air attached to the bottom of the elevator when the stick is full back thus making the elevator more effective c/ Land faster - the faster airflow over the elevator increases authority with less back pressure, thus reducing airflow separation. d/ move the CG back. Some aircraft have weight boxes in the tail so that CG is controlled by adding a small weight on a long lever, effectively offsetting the passenger weight somewhat , reducing the workload on the elevator and making it more effective with smaller stick movements. (I have not tried this but am thinking of moving one of my fuel tanks to a back position when flying passengers to see what happens. ) I usually land a little faster and it has not been a big deal, but it is real.. Thanks again for making me think about it and visualize what may be happening in real life. In the end , understanding the effects and being ready makes one fly safer. Happy landings FrankD N1014S, MkIII Xtra Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468002#468002 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
From: Hoppy <herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Interesting conversation all.. My problem is considering the tail as aerodynamic...on the Kolbs... I only see separation as the air hits the leading edge... certainly not an airfoil in the classical sense and definitely not laminar... More like a barn door...:-) A symmetrical airfoil is common on most planes...as in "not flat". Seems to me that an all moving elevator would work and likely could be much smaller... and could still fold... Herb...who talked to an aerodynamicist once... ( he likely could not spell it either:-) ) On 04/03/2017 06:37 PM, Frankd wrote: > > Hello group, > I have been reading and learning about the topic of Tail Stall.. thank you all. > I fly a MkIII Xtra and limit my passengers to 200Lbs or less, because of the issue with losing elevator authority during flare. > > I did not think "Tail Stall" existed but maybe I am wrong. Technically, if a stall is where the air separates from the surface of a wing (or tail) then perhaps that is what is happening when I have a heavy passenger. This passenger moves the CG forward and this weight shift is offset by the use of "Up" elevator. > When landing and decreasing the airspeed the airflow over the elevator in a full "UP" position could separate from the underside of the elevator and that would explain why adding more back stick does nothing.. > > All the remedies support this theory:- > a/ Add a gap seal - keeps the airflow flowing from top of Horz. Stab to bottom of elevator > b/ Add VG's to bottom of Horz Stab - keep the air attached to the bottom of the elevator when the stick is full back thus making the elevator more effective > c/ Land faster - the faster airflow over the elevator increases authority with less back pressure, thus reducing airflow separation. > > d/ move the CG back. Some aircraft have weight boxes in the tail so that CG is controlled by adding a small weight on a long lever, effectively offsetting the passenger weight somewhat , reducing the workload on the elevator and making it more effective with smaller stick movements. (I have not tried this but am thinking of moving one of my fuel tanks to a back position when flying passengers to see what happens. ) > > I usually land a little faster and it has not been a big deal, but it is real.. > > Thanks again for making me think about it and visualize what may be happening in real life. > > In the end , understanding the effects and being ready makes one fly safer. > > Happy landings > FrankD > N1014S, MkIII Xtra > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468002#468002 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
Date: Apr 03, 2017
Don't think we have an aircraft design problem, but "maybe" a piloting problem. If you are flying a MKIII and hauling a big ass passenger, modify your piloting technique to compensate for the forward cg. The basic design of the Kolb tail section has never changed, except small differences in size. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hoppy Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: : VG's: VG's Interesting conversation all.. My problem is considering the tail as aerodynamic...on the Kolbs... I only see separation as the air hits the leading edge... certainly not an airfoil in the classical sense and definitely not laminar... More like a barn door...:-) A symmetrical airfoil is common on most planes...as in "not flat". Seems to me that an all moving elevator would work and likely could be much smaller... and could still fold... Herb...who talked to an aerodynamicist once... ( he likely could not spell it either:-) ) On 04/03/2017 06:37 PM, Frankd wrote: > > Hello group, > I have been reading and learning about the topic of Tail Stall.. thank you all. > I fly a MkIII Xtra and limit my passengers to 200Lbs or less, because of the issue with losing elevator authority during flare. > > I did not think "Tail Stall" existed but maybe I am wrong. Technically, if a stall is where the air separates from the surface of a wing (or tail) then perhaps that is what is happening when I have a heavy passenger. This passenger moves the CG forward and this weight shift is offset by the use of "Up" elevator. > When landing and decreasing the airspeed the airflow over the elevator in a full "UP" position could separate from the underside of the elevator and that would explain why adding more back stick does nothing.. > > All the remedies support this theory:- > a/ Add a gap seal - keeps the airflow flowing from top of Horz. Stab to bottom of elevator > b/ Add VG's to bottom of Horz Stab - keep the air attached to the bottom of the elevator when the stick is full back thus making the elevator more effective > c/ Land faster - the faster airflow over the elevator increases authority with less back pressure, thus reducing airflow separation. > > d/ move the CG back. Some aircraft have weight boxes in the tail so that CG is controlled by adding a small weight on a long lever, effectively offsetting the passenger weight somewhat , reducing the workload on the elevator and making it more effective with smaller stick movements. (I have not tried this but am thinking of moving one of my fuel tanks to a back position when flying passengers to see what happens. )


February 24, 2017 - April 03, 2017

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