MurphyMoose-Archive.digest.vol-aa

January 29, 2006 - November 30, 2008



      
      
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Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: First Message to New MurphyMoose List!
This is a test message to the new MurphyMoose List at the Matronics Email Forums. Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Six New Email Lists / Forums At Matronics!
Dear Listers, Its my pleasure to announce the addition of six new Email List / Forums to the aviation line up at Matronics! These new lists support all the usual features you've come to know and love from the Matronics Email List including full integration with the All New Web BBS Forums Site!! The new Lists include: LycomingEngines-List Textron/Lycoming Engines RotaxEngines-List Rotax Engine for Aircraft M14PEngines-List Vendenyev M14P Radial Engine MurphyMoose-List Murphy Moose Aircraft Allegro-List Allegro 2000, a Czech-built, Rotax-powered Aircraft Falco-List Sequoia Aircraft's Falco Experimental To sign up for any or all of the new Lists, surf over to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form and follow the instructions: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Don't forget to check out the All New Web BBS Forum now available along with all of the usual message and archive viewing tools at the Matronics Email Lists site. Surf over to the following URL for information on the BBS Forum: http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy the new Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2006
From: Bill Smith <smithbill2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Moose Empty weights
How does the Lycoming powered Moose compare to the M14 Moose as far as empty weights? How accurate are the numbers on the Murphy website? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose Empty weights
Date: Feb 02, 2006
I don't know about the Lyc vs M14 specs on the Murphy site, but the speed #'s are pure fantasy. 8.5x6 tires and @ 17gph w/ the M14 I can maybe get 120kts. Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Empty weights --> How does the Lycoming powered Moose compare to the M14 Moose as far as empty weights? How accurate are the numbers on the Murphy website? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose Empty weights
Date: Feb 02, 2006
I think the M14 Moose runs two to three hundred pounds heavier than the Lyc. Typical M14 Moose with no modifications seems to be around 2000 to 2100 pounds. Lots of mods and your into the 2200 to 2300 range. I have not seen one under 2000 empty yet. I know of a SR 2500 that came in at 1700 but that is an original not the 3500 upgrade and no interior, no exterior paint. The MAM specs page has a few errors, as Ted pointed out the speeds are "optimistic" . Also if trying to plan for building space the length is wrong on their site. It says 23 feet. Actually it is 25' 8" from rudder to nose of prop on M14 Moose. Fuselage with no rudder installed to the firewall is 20' 4". FWIW Scott Moose 174 -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Empty weights How does the Lycoming powered Moose compare to the M14 Moose as far as empty weights? How accurate are the numbers on the Murphy website? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
From: Bill Smith <smithbill2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Speeds
Does anyone have some realistic cruise numbers they could share? M14 or Lyc. Float or wheels. How about on the low end? Anyone flying with cuffs or vg's yet? Thank you, BS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Speeds
Date: Feb 03, 2006
I have VG's but the original style wingtips & M-14. 15.5 g/hr maybe 108 kts; 17 g/hr, on a good day , 120kts. 8.5 x 6 wheels. Ted www.i1ci.com/flying -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Smith Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Speeds --> Does anyone have some realistic cruise numbers they could share? M14 or Lyc. Float or wheels. How about on the low end? Anyone flying with cuffs or vg's yet? Thank you, BS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
From: Bill Smith <smithbill2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Speeds
Thanks Ted, Maybe silly question but is your airspeed indicator been calibrated with gps, are these true airspeeds? Thanks Bill On 2/3/06, Ted Waltman wrote: > > I have VG's but the original style wingtips & M-14. 15.5 g/hr maybe 108 > kts; 17 g/hr, on a good day , 120kts. 8.5 x 6 wheels. > > Ted > www.i1ci.com/flying > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Speeds
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Yes, I'm taking average true airspeed. I flight-plan 110K and usually fly ~ 16gph, depending on how close to gross I am. Those #'s work well for me (about 215 hrs in the Moose so far). I pull the prop back to 1330 prop rpm (some folks use engine rpm) and then ajust manifold press for gph. Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Smith Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:59 PM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Speeds --> Thanks Ted, Maybe silly question but is your airspeed indicator been calibrated with gps, are these true airspeeds? Thanks Bill On 2/3/06, Ted Waltman wrote: > --> > > I have VG's but the original style wingtips & M-14. 15.5 g/hr maybe > 108 kts; 17 g/hr, on a good day , 120kts. 8.5 x 6 wheels. > > Ted > www.i1ci.com/flying > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
From: Bill Smith <smithbill2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Speeds
Thank you again for the information! On 2/3/06, Ted Waltman wrote: > > Yes, I'm taking average true airspeed. I flight-plan 110K and usually > fly ~ 16gph, depending on how close to gross I am. Those #'s work well > for me (about 215 hrs in the Moose so far). I pull the prop back to > 1330 prop rpm (some folks use engine rpm) and then ajust manifold press > for gph. > > Ted > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Speeds
Date: Feb 04, 2006
It will be interesting to compare a V530 prop to your three blade Hatzell Ted. Anybody on here yet with a two blade or the MT on wheels to compare? Scott Moose 174 M14P 360 V530 www.goflyamoose.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Speeds Yes, I'm taking average true airspeed. I flight-plan 110K and usually fly ~ 16gph, depending on how close to gross I am. Those #'s work well for me (about 215 hrs in the Moose so far). I pull the prop back to 1330 prop rpm (some folks use engine rpm) and then ajust manifold press for gph. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Speeds
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Doesn't the guy that is featured on the Murphy homepage indicate a 3-blade MT? Seems that he has the Lycoming engine though. www.murphyair.com He claims a 143 mph cruise; different cowling profile might get him going that fast. -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Speeds --> It will be interesting to compare a V530 prop to your three blade Hatzell Ted. Anybody on here yet with a two blade or the MT on wheels to compare? Scott Moose 174 M14P 360 V530 www.goflyamoose.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Speeds --> Yes, I'm taking average true airspeed. I flight-plan 110K and usually fly ~ 16gph, depending on how close to gross I am. Those #'s work well for me (about 215 hrs in the Moose so far). I pull the prop back to 1330 prop rpm (some folks use engine rpm) and then ajust manifold press for gph. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose operating costs
Date: Feb 05, 2006
For what it's worth, I keep meticulous records for every imaginable expense related to my Murphy Moose. Thus far I have a total of 220.6 hours on the Moose with operating costs running $115.55 (US) per hour. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose operating costs
Date: Feb 05, 2006
Can you filter out everything but fuel and oil (no maintenance etc.) and post that (not if it's a hassle)? Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose operating costs For what it's worth, I keep meticulous records for every imaginable expense related to my Murphy Moose. Thus far I have a total of 220.6 hours on the Moose with operating costs running $115.55 (US) per hour. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KJKimball(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Moose operating costs
Can you filter out everything but fuel and oil (no maintenance etc.) and post that (not if it=E2=80=99s a hassle)? Scott Or maybe list the items that result in the $115.55/hr operating cost. Such as: Fuel Oil Insurance hangar rent/tie down fees scheduled maintenance unscheduled maintenance allowance consumable items landing fees care and cleaning total cost of buying constructing airframe etc. I am curious to see what insurance is per year on a moose at what hull valve as compared to other airplanes, like the model 12, yak, etc. Most all the other costs will be about the same. Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose operating costs
Date: Feb 05, 2006
$38.79 / hr for just fuel & oil over my 220.6 hours in the plane. Big items that drive the /hr cost up incl some hangar costs (before I built my own), instrument repair / purchase (alternator, artificial horizon, HSI), tools, parts (upgrade exhaust section), sales tax on kit purchase... Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Moose operating costs Can you filter out everything but fuel and oil (no maintenance etc.) and post that (not if it's a hassle)? Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose operating costs For what it's worth, I keep meticulous records for every imaginable expense related to my Murphy Moose. Thus far I have a total of 220.6 hours on the Moose with operating costs running $115.55 (US) per hour. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose operating costs
Date: Feb 05, 2006
Kevin, I just have liability ins on the Moose which is $706 / yr. Hull was something like $4,500 for $150K which I thought was a bit much. Plus, I wanted hull--if I got it all--for a Canada/Alaska trip and they wanted a 25% premium for that if I recall correctly. Between house, car, life, health and everything else in life it seems, I'm tired of paying insurance companies a substantial portion of my income. I didn't break down things quite as you detail below; I'll mail you my spreadsheet privately. Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KJKimball(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:25 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Moose operating costs Can you filter out everything but fuel and oil (no maintenance etc.) and post that (not if it's a hassle)? Scott Or maybe list the items that result in the $115.55/hr operating cost. Such as: Fuel Oil Insurance hangar rent/tie down fees scheduled maintenance unscheduled maintenance allowance consumable items landing fees care and cleaning total cost of buying constructing airframe etc. I am curious to see what insurance is per year on a moose at what hull valve as compared to other airplanes, like the model 12, yak, etc. Most all the other costs will be about the same. Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load
From: "Loray" <loray(at)pbgroup.com.ph>
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Dear All, I see that the Murphy website has pictures of Gerry Halsall's completed, nice-looking Moose. In the description, it mentions that it has the "Murphy extended wing tips." Can anyone tell me if these extended wing tips increase the gross weight, like the ART Wing-X extensions do for the Cessnas? I'm not yet a Moose owner. I'm seriously interested, but there are 2 things holding me back. One is the useful load. I have a Cessna 185 now. On wheels, its useful load is 1,573 lbs. On amphib floats, its useful load is 926 lbs. I could increases those weights (legally) with the ART wing extensions by another 175 lbs. But realistically, my 300 hp engine is going to struggle to get off the water at a 3,525 lb gross. Hence my very keen interest in the Moose. But from what I'm hearing ... most Moose builders are getting empty weights on wheels in excess of 2,000 lbs. Although my understanding is that the builder can set the gross weight higher than what Murphy recommends. The M14 certainly has enough power to handle heavier weights, but I'm worried that the wing area isn't big enough. Hence the interest in the wing extensions. The other big concern that's holding me back is the prop clearance on floats. My 185 has a seaplane prop that appears to have much more clearance than either of the MT props on the Moose. If I'm already picking up a lot of spray in the prop on my 185, I worry that it would be real issue with the Moose. (I fly off of open ocean in the Philippines). If anyone could address these concerns, I sure would be appreciative. Thanks, Loray Greiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10314#10314 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Cupitt" <mark(at)metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Hi Loray Nice to see you are looking at a moose. Drop by and see me when you are back up our way, perhaps at the balloon festival Regards Mark C -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Loray Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load Dear All, I see that the Murphy website has pictures of Gerry Halsall's completed, nice-looking Moose. In the description, it mentions that it has the "Murphy extended wing tips." Can anyone tell me if these extended wing tips increase the gross weight, like the ART Wing-X extensions do for the Cessnas? I'm not yet a Moose owner. I'm seriously interested, but there are 2 things holding me back. One is the useful load. I have a Cessna 185 now. On wheels, its useful load is 1,573 lbs. On amphib floats, its useful load is 926 lbs. I could increases those weights (legally) with the ART wing extensions by another 175 lbs. But realistically, my 300 hp engine is going to struggle to get off the water at a 3,525 lb gross. Hence my very keen interest in the Moose. But from what I'm hearing ... most Moose builders are getting empty weights on wheels in excess of 2,000 lbs. Although my understanding is that the builder can set the gross weight higher than what Murphy recommends. The M14 certainly has enough power to handle heavier weights, but I'm worried that the wing area isn't big enough. Hence the interest in the wing extensions. The other big concern that's holding me back is the prop clearance on floats. My 185 has a seaplane prop that appears to have much more clearance than either of the MT props on the Moose. If I'm already picking up a lot of spray in the prop on my 185, I worry that it would be real issue with the Moose. (I fly off of open ocean in the Philippines). If anyone could address these concerns, I sure would be appreciative. Thanks, Loray Greiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10314#10314 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Hi Loray, There is no "advertised" gross weight increase by Murphy with the extended wing tip but it would theoretically. I suspect the "extended" wing tips he refers to are the new, optional, slightly droop tips that are approximately 9 inches more span than the original tip. Another builder has extended the actual wing out one bay (12 inches) and used the standard tip so gained about another 4 inches. I don't recall a lot of water spray at all when flying Ron K's plane and it has longer blades than the standard V530. I'll see if Steve is around, he has a lot of time in Ron's and has longer blades for his too. I know a few with the three blade MT props on floats, I'll see if they are around also. Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Steve pointed out that the prop on the Otter hangs down to the floats and erosion isn't a major problem, probably due to geared engine and lower prop RPM. Seems the M14 would benefit from the lower prop RPM also. He doesn't recall a lot of spray with Ron's Moose with the long two blade either but this is on straight floats. It is probably sitting a little higher in the water than amphibs would. FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Extensions & other stuff to boost useful load
From: "Loray" <loray(at)pbgroup.com.ph>
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Hi Scott: Any light you can shed on prop clearance issues on floats would be greatly appreciated. Some of the guys must have some time on rough water now. Every water takeoff in the Philippines is rough water, with open ocean and constant trade winds. Downwind taxi turns with the big-tail 185 are challenging. Hi Mark: I'm in Singapore now, Bangkok tonight, and Manila on Friday. But I don't know if I'll make it up for the balloon fiesta. The amphib hasn't been flown for a while and the engine is still perserved. Not sure if I'll get it un-pickled and thoroughly looked over before the weekend. Regards, Loray Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10720#10720 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Young" <n35dy(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: V-530 props available
Date: Feb 07, 2006
I am building a Model 12 and wound up with 2 new V-530TA-D35 props that I would like to sell. If interested, please contact me off list or see Barnstormers add listed under "Aerobatic". http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php 901-337-4821 Thanks. Dan Young ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rhodes" <rhodes5(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Moose vs 185
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Loray You are correct that the Moose needs more wing area with the M14 and also that an M14 Moose is going to weigh at least 2000 lbs. My own is bare bones with lots of beef ups and it weighs 2222 on big tires. A late model 185 with a fancy panel can also top 2000 lbs on big tires. A Beaver will come in around 3200 on wheels with just a shade more HP than the M14. I used the stock tips as Scott mentioned and added a bay to each wing (13") Scott and I also added trailing edge to the flaps and ailerons for more area. Prop spray is not a concern as those big blades are only turning 1941 rpm on takeoff and even at heavy weights it is on the step and off in short order. After 100 hours I see no sign or erosion on Ron's blades (Russian 2 blade). I never had much for prop erosion on my 185 either but I have seen poor habits on the water take its course. If you really want to build something YOURSELF and think the Moose is the plane then you should investigate further. If you plan to have someone else build one I personally think you are asking for a headache and a huge BILL. The 185 holds up to severe abuse very well and it sounds like yours is already flying. Steve Rhodes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: V-530 props available
Date: Feb 09, 2006
Direct link http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=96923 _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Young Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: V-530 props available I am building a Model 12 and wound up with 2 new V-530TA-D35 props that I would like to sell. If interested, please contact me off list or see Barnstormers add listed under "Aerobatic". http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php 901-337-4821 Thanks. Dan Young ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KJKimball(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2006
Subject: Re: V-530 props available
Group, We have two v-530 props available as well. One new old stock and one in overhauled condition. Running out of hangar space to store all this stuff. Email off list for details. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax _http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/) _http://www.pittsmodel12.com/_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose with 540 specs
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Someone asked what a Moose with the O-540 was getting for speed I think. Al has an IO-540 and he posted this to another list. Hi Mike, On conventional gear 2000 ft, 145 MPH and 16 gal. at 100 degrees rich of peak. Al You can see more info on Al's Moose with the Lycoming here - http://www.goflyamoose.com/Other%20Builders%20Picture%20Pages/alpaxhia%20moo se.html FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: New manual updates at MAM's website
Date: Mar 04, 2006
A few manual chapter updates posted at MAM. Not sure what the stab skin one is about but believe the other two are just longer bolts on the elevator and rudder hinge brackets. Most guys figured that out when the nuts didn't fit. FWIW http://www.murphyair.com/SUPPORT/Moose.htm Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose Empty weights
Date: Mar 13, 2006
Someone was asking me what a realistic empty weight for the M14 powered Moose was. I told him typically 2100ish with only one I know of just under 2000 pounds. I believe Ron K's is closer to 2300 with many mods and beef ups. I will be happy with anything under 2200 with everything I have done. What are you guys getting? Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Stretched Moose letter from Darryl at MAM
Date: Mar 13, 2006
Interesting letter on the MAM website from Darryl about the stretched Moose. Currently the link is just on the front page. www.murphyair.com <http://www.murphyair.com/> The new web designer is making lots of changes and there are new technical updates posted also. Hopefully she will decide that funky background is hard to read through soon though . FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose Empty weights
Date: Mar 13, 2006
Mine was 1,950 but I'll bet it is over 2100 when I get it painted in May, put bigger tires on it and such. Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:44 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Empty weights Someone was asking me what a realistic empty weight for the M14 powered Moose was. I told him typically 2100ish with only one I know of just under 2000 pounds. I believe Ron K's is closer to 2300 with many mods and beef ups. I will be happy with anything under 2200 with everything I have done. What are you guys getting? Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose Fus 396
Date: Mar 23, 2006
>Dave wrote: >Does the fus 396 get riveted to the fuselage skin? Nothing in the >instructions mentions it. >Thanks, >Dave Greaton Moose 189 This is the 396 that is the lower aileron pulley brackets correct? Yes it does. This is also part of the cause of the aileron slop in the Moose. These lower pulleys flex and pull in and back when the tension gets tight on the cable. Some guys have purchased extra 396's and put one on the front and back of the pulley to stiffen things up. I did not do that but I made the support bracket (step 18, chapter 12, dated 7-11-02) out of steel instead of the raw stock .032 aluminum. It helped a lot. I wish I had beefed up the upper rear aileron pulley's better than what is in the plans - the ones that attach to the fuselage/wing root area - these pull the sides of the fuselage in slightly also contributing to the slop. I have determined nearly all of the slop or play in the ailerons is in the cable and pushrods inside the fuselage - not a whole lot of play out in the wing torque tubes. FWIW Scott Moose 174 www.goflyamoose.com <http://www.goflyamoose.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Email List Wiki!
Dear Listers, I have added a new feature to the Email List Forums at Matronics called a Wiki. What's "Wiki" you ask? A Wiki is a website. You go to it and browse just like you would any other web site. The difference is, you can change it. You can put anything you want on this web site without having to be a web designer or even being the owner. You can write a new page just like writing an email message on the BBS. You don't need to send it off to anyone to install on the site. It is kind of like a Blog (weblog) in which anyone can post. Here is a great page on where the term Wiki came from and what it means in the context of a website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki So on to the new Matronics Email List Wiki... I've created this site for anyone from any of the Email Lists to use. I envision that there are a great many things that can be added to this new Wiki since there are always new and interesting tidbits of useful information traversing the Lists. Off the main Matronics Email List Wiki page, you will find a link called "Community Portal". Here you will find more links to stubs for all the various Lists found at Matronics (and a few other links). Brian Lloyd and others from the Yak-List have already begun adding content in a number of areas. Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric fame has added a great article on "Ageing Aircraft". I have discussed the new Matronics Email List Wiki with Tedd McHenry and Dwight Frye of the RV Wiki Site and they have decided to merge their site over onto the new Matronics Wiki server giving everyone a single source for information on RV building and flying! This migration will begin today and you should be able to find all of the content currently found at www.rvwiki.org moved over to the Matronics Wiki within a few days. To make edits to the Matronics Wiki, you will need to have a login account on the Matronics Wiki and I have disabled anonymous edits. This protects the Wiki site from automated spam engines and other nuisances that could compromise the data at the site. Signing up for an account is fast and easy and begins by clicking on the "create an account or log in" link in the upper right hand corner of any page. Note that you do not have to have a login or be logged in to view any of the content. The Matronics Email List Wiki is YOUR Wiki! It is only as useful as the content found within. The concept of the Wiki is that the people the use it and update it. If you've got an interesting procedure for doing something, MAKE A WIKI PAGE ON IT! You can even upload pictures. Saw something interesting at a flyin? MAKE A WIKI PAGE ON IT! Don't be shy, this is YOUR site to share information with others with similar interests. Here is a users guide on using the Wiki implemented at Matronics: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents This gives a lot of great information on how to get started editing pages. And finally, here is the URL for the Matronics Email List Wiki: http://wiki.matronics.com Brian Lloyd has written an excellent introduction to Wikis on the front page. I encourage you to read it over, then drill into the "Community Portal" and HAVE FUN!! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Insurance quote
Date: Apr 11, 2006
FWIW, Just got a quote from USSIC on the Moose for the next year. I have ~850 hrs total, 650 tailwheel and 235 in the Moose. Full coverage for $160K value is quoted at $4,872. Ted Waltman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pollock" <lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: fuselage
Date: Apr 15, 2006
I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas? Bill Moose 244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz7(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage
Date: Apr 15, 2006
Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz ----- Original Message ----- From: pollock To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas? Bill Moose 244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pollock" <lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: fuselage
Date: Apr 15, 2006
Hi Dale The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare the both planes all the time,Is it needed ???? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Fultz To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz ----- Original Message ----- From: pollock To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas? Bill Moose 244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: fuselage
Date: Apr 15, 2006
Hi Bill, I would have to see what and where they tied the second V brace into? You said mid firewall so I assume not the same place as the top V brace. I could see this helping if the second brace was in tied into the cross channel that runs between the two top engine mounts (or an added channel). The firewall itself is too flimsy to attach much stuff too (I think the v stiffener channels do there job, except you can=92t mount anything to or through them) so I add a second horizontal channel about 1/3 up from the bottom on the inside (bottom oil tank attach points go through this channel on mine). We also added a vertical channel on the front side right up the center from the bottom to the top cross channel. We added a vertical channel on the inside at the top which goes up behind the MAM V brace support angle. We changed the MAM V brace support angle to steel with side gussets (Some used the aluminum angle but added gussets). We did change our inner door posts to .063, we also changed the outer door post skin but I can not remember the thickness =96 we changed to the seaplane style doors so with the added lower =93wedge=94 being all one piece it really stiffened this area up. The top of the dash is too flimsy - some have added a skin doubler on the top of the dash where it meets the firewall. Others have replaced the entire top dash skin with thicker aluminum. I added three channels up under the dash skin from the firewall back to the top of the instrument panel. One in the center (the V brace goes through this) and one at each crease in the dash skin on the sides (where the instrument panel makes the angle change). My fast build firewall is not flat. The top leans forward about 1/8 of an inch. I discovered this because I removed the firewall and laid it flat to make the jig for my engine mount. I then made my mount with all five attach point on the same plane. So when I installed the engine mount and tightened all of the mount bolts it pushed the top center of the firewall back. There was a loud tin can =93bang=94. The dash had buckled as the top of the firewall was forced back by the center engine mount. Ended up moving the top center engine mount hole up to relieve this pressure =96 that meant remaking the V brace mount as the hole in it was too low now also (with the firewall leaning forward that effectively lowers the top hole a little). I remade the V =96 brace out of large thicker tube also =96 I wanted to be able to grab it and not worry about bending it. We beefed up the tail cone similar to what you did but we put V hat channel down center of the bottom corner wraps. One Moose I know of has wrinkles in all of these corner wraps. It was most likely due to a hard landing on floats so not sure if that was necessary or not. We added a wrap or doubler over the cargo door sill =96 if you use it much it will get beat up dragging stuff in and out. We used 2024 for this and a lot of other additions due to fewer tendencies to dent. Some have added a doubler inside the fuselage corner wrap that is right behind the gear leg =96 then installed the drag brace through it. I made the drag brace a little longer. We stiffened the top of the doors with internal channels but this was only because of the seaplane door hinge on the top. MAM=92s new Moose demonstrator (they bought C-GATR it is on my completions page of website) has some sort of doublers in front of the rear float attach brackets. I have only seen it in a picture so not sure exactly what they did. Murphy did not build this Moose they purchased after it was already done so it is NOT a MAM mode that we have not heard about. They just finished flying the time off of it so it will most likely be at Arlington and Oshkosh for sure. No indication on their web about it yet but St=E9phane said okay to tell =96 Ted knows more about it as he has talked with Ryan Mowat who flew the time off (along with Doug from MAM) they couldn=92t get it done in time for Sun n Fun. Oh, just remembered - we replaced the inner rear door post skin strips with .063 also after installing the fuel lines down the posts. The .063 continues across the bottom of the rear spar carry through. This is unrelated to fuselage beef up but it really helps to add inspection holes on the bottom of the fuselage right behind the firewall, particularly if you have a bunch of stuff going through down there (we have air lines along with fuel lines) Sorry so long =96 can=92t think of anything else right now. Also I can=92t say any of this is =93needed=94 it just looked right to me at the time. Scott Moose 174 _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pollock Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Hi Dale The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare the both planes all the time,Is it needed ???? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Fultz <mailto:dfultz7(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz ----- Original Message ----- From: pollock <mailto:lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas? Bill Moose 244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pollock" <lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: fuselage
Date: Apr 15, 2006
Hi Scott I took photos of that underdash V brace and it goes at the top of the center of firewall right below the dash, straight back to door post below dash not tied into cross channel ,I think there idea was to secure the post in two spots with 4130 tube one at the top of the cabin and one mid point.They did not like the side skin between the fire wall to the post to take the stress load? Thanks Dale and Scott for your input. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Aldrich To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Hi Bill, I would have to see what and where they tied the second V brace into? You said mid firewall so I assume not the same place as the top V brace. I could see this helping if the second brace was in tied into the cross channel that runs between the two top engine mounts (or an added channel). The firewall itself is too flimsy to attach much stuff too (I think the v stiffener channels do there job, except you can't mount anything to or through them) so I add a second horizontal channel about 1/3 up from the bottom on the inside (bottom oil tank attach points go through this channel on mine). We also added a vertical channel on the front side right up the center from the bottom to the top cross channel. We added a vertical channel on the inside at the top which goes up behind the MAM V brace support angle. We changed the MAM V brace support angle to steel with side gussets (Some used the aluminum angle but added gussets). We did change our inner door posts to .063, we also changed the outer door post skin but I can not remember the thickness - we changed to the seaplane style doors so with the added lower "wedge" being all one piece it really stiffened this area up. The top of the dash is too flimsy - some have added a skin doubler on the top of the dash where it meets the firewall. Others have replaced the entire top dash skin with thicker aluminum. I added three channels up under the dash skin from the firewall back to the top of the instrument panel. One in the center (the V brace goes through this) and one at each crease in the dash skin on the sides (where the instrument panel makes the angle change). My fast build firewall is not flat. The top leans forward about 1/8 of an inch. I discovered this because I removed the firewall and laid it flat to make the jig for my engine mount. I then made my mount with all five attach point on the same plane. So when I installed the engine mount and tightened all of the mount bolts it pushed the top center of the firewall back. There was a loud tin can "bang". The dash had buckled as the top of the firewall was forced back by the center engine mount. Ended up moving the top center engine mount hole up to relieve this pressure - that meant remaking the V brace mount as the hole in it was too low now also (with the firewall leaning forward that effectively lowers the top hole a little). I remade the V - brace out of large thicker tube also - I wanted to be able to grab it and not worry about bending it. We beefed up the tail cone similar to what you did but we put V hat channel down center of the bottom corner wraps. One Moose I know of has wrinkles in all of these corner wraps. It was most likely due to a hard landing on floats so not sure if that was necessary or not. We added a wrap or doubler over the cargo door sill - if you use it much it will get beat up dragging stuff in and out. We used 2024 for this and a lot of other additions due to fewer tendencies to dent. Some have added a doubler inside the fuselage corner wrap that is right behind the gear leg - then installed the drag brace through it. I made the drag brace a little longer. We stiffened the top of the doors with internal channels but this was only because of the seaplane door hinge on the top. MAM's new Moose demonstrator (they bought C-GATR it is on my completions page of website) has some sort of doublers in front of the rear float attach brackets. I have only seen it in a picture so not sure exactly what they did. Murphy did not build this Moose they purchased after it was already done so it is NOT a MAM mode that we have not heard about. They just finished flying the time off of it so it will most likely be at Arlington and Oshkosh for sure. No indication on their web about it yet but St=E9phane said okay to tell - Ted knows more about it as he has talked with Ryan Mowat who flew the time off (along with Doug from MAM) they couldn't get it done in time for Sun n Fun. Oh, just remembered - we replaced the inner rear door post skin strips with .063 also after installing the fuel lines down the posts. The .063 continues across the bottom of the rear spar carry through. This is unrelated to fuselage beef up but it really helps to add inspection holes on the bottom of the fuselage right behind the firewall, particularly if you have a bunch of stuff going through down there (we have air lines along with fuel lines) Sorry so long - can't think of anything else right now. Also I can't say any of this is "needed" it just looked right to me at the time. Scott Moose 174 From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pollock Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 AM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Hi Dale The boys from Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare the both planes all the time,Is it needed ???? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Fultz To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he was trying to accomplish by running the V brace from firewall back to door post on the Taildragger plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in tension??? I would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed some light on this. Dale Fultz ----- Original Message ----- From: pollock To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner wraps.I thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any ideas? Bill Moose 244 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Prop on e bay
From: "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net>
Date: Apr 29, 2006
-------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31623#31623 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose: Newly installed -- straight -- stinger
Date: May 05, 2006
I installed a new prototype -- totally straight -- stinger on the Moose today. I also put on a new swivel that a machinist friend of mine created out of a blank-stock swivel that Murphy Aircraft sent. The pictures (see below) show that I now have a slight positive castor angle when relatively empty. With the plane loaded up I suspect I'll have the proper vertical pivot pin orientation. You can see two pictures (very bottom of the page) and more info on the tail upgrades at: <http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html> http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/Tail/TailUpgrade.html Ted Waltman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Date: May 07, 2006
Guess I'm just lucky to find these things. Hopefully by documenting the issues I find such will help others still in the build process or prompt others that are now flying to double check their planes. Last year I discovered small cracks in the underside of both elevator tip skins (part # EL-313). I drilled relief holes and kept an eye on them. On the left side, I had to drill a second set of holes later in the year. Looking at the extent of the cracks, particularly on the left (pilot) side it is evident that a major "redo" of this area is now in order. As such, I've asked a few friends what techniques they might suggest.... [ Please see the rest of my comments and pictures here: http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Elevator/Elevator.html ] Thank you for your input. Ted Waltman Moose N142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Date: May 07, 2006
Ted, Thanks for sharing. This is the only way we will get all the kinks worked out of our airplanes. It looks to me like the moment arm of the elevator counter weights is too much for the structure and the bottom skin is just trying to buckle under compression. You're only getting cracks on the bottom most likely from the loads imposed on landings (No, I am not saying you are making hard landings ) just thinking it is not a vibration problem like the other cracks. I checked out the pictures and comments on your website. The sea fin mod and beef up was only on the Stabilizer end rib and rear spar under the outboard elevator hinge, it had nothing to do with the elevator itself - what you have is new, or at least no one else has brought it up yet. I would take the path of least resistance and use your second idea for a fix. Just add a full length doubler that spans the elevator end rib and the tip counterbalance rib. I would also add external doubler plates on the top and bottom that span that area, I doubt they would need to go all the way. You mention about being able to pick up the elevator tip weight - not a problem you can drill right into the soft lead and put rivet right into it. That is the way your aileron balance weights are held in. The amazing thing, looking at your pictures, is that you do not have the cracks on the stabilizer end ribs and you do not have the reinforcement per the bulletin in there. Scott Moose 174 _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks Guess I'm just lucky to find these things. Hopefully by documenting the issues I find such will help others still in the build process or prompt others that are now flying to double check their planes. Last year I discovered small cracks in the underside of both elevator tip skins (part # EL-313). I drilled relief holes and kept an eye on them. On the left side, I had to drill a second set of holes later in the year. Looking at the extent of the cracks, particularly on the left (pilot) side it is evident that a major "redo" of this area is now in order. As such, I've asked a few friends what techniques they might suggest.... [ Please see the rest of my comments and pictures here: http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Elevator/Elevator.html ] Thank you for your input. Ted Waltman Moose N142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Date: May 07, 2006
Just to add, if you are going to be drilling out the top and bottom skins there anyway it wouldn't be too hard to add and internal doublers on both sides that pick up the spar too. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks Ted, Thanks for sharing. This is the only way we will get all the kinks worked out of our airplanes. It looks to me like the moment arm of the elevator counter weights is too much for the structure and the bottom skin is just trying to buckle under compression. You're only getting cracks on the bottom most likely from the loads imposed on landings (No, I am not saying you are making hard landings ) just thinking it is not a vibration problem like the other cracks. I checked out the pictures and comments on your website. The sea fin mod and beef up was only on the Stabilizer end rib and rear spar under the outboard elevator hinge, it had nothing to do with the elevator itself - what you have is new, or at least no one else has brought it up yet. I would take the path of least resistance and use your second idea for a fix. Just add a full length doubler that spans the elevator end rib and the tip counterbalance rib. I would also add external doubler plates on the top and bottom that span that area, I doubt they would need to go all the way. You mention about being able to pick up the elevator tip weight - not a problem you can drill right into the soft lead and put rivet right into it. That is the way your aileron balance weights are held in. The amazing thing, looking at your pictures, is that you do not have the cracks on the stabilizer end ribs and you do not have the reinforcement per the bulletin in there. Scott Moose 174 _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks Guess I'm just lucky to find these things. Hopefully by documenting the issues I find such will help others still in the build process or prompt others that are now flying to double check their planes. Last year I discovered small cracks in the underside of both elevator tip skins (part # EL-313). I drilled relief holes and kept an eye on them. On the left side, I had to drill a second set of holes later in the year. Looking at the extent of the cracks, particularly on the left (pilot) side it is evident that a major "redo" of this area is now in order. As such, I've asked a few friends what techniques they might suggest.... [ Please see the rest of my comments and pictures here: http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Elevator/Elevator.html ] Thank you for your input. Ted Waltman Moose N142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 09, 2006
From: "Bill Smith" <smithbill2(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Did you ask Darryl about a fix? Seems just a thicker skin over the top and bottom would be enough with maybe the end tie together too. Thanks for posting this information, most guys would not for fear of others thinking it was hard landings that caused it, particularly if no one else reports it. Any chance the builder put "extra" weight in there trying to completely balance the elevator or does it hang trailing edge down like most of them do? Bill On 5/7/06, Ted Waltman wrote: > > > Guess I'm just lucky to find these things. Hopefully by documenting the > issues I find such will help others still in the build process or prompt > others that are now flying to double check their planes. > > Last year I discovered small cracks in the underside of both elevator tip > skins (part # EL-313). I drilled relief holes and kept an eye on them. On > the left side, I had to drill a second set of holes later in the year. > > Looking at the extent of the cracks, particularly on the left (pilot) side > it is evident that a major "redo" of this area is now in order. As such, > I've asked a few friends what techniques they might suggest.... > > [ Please see the rest of my comments and pictures here: > http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Elevator/Elevator.html ] > > Thank you for your input. > > Ted Waltman > > Moose N142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Date: May 09, 2006
Darryl replied suggesting a patch plate on top of the cracks extending fore and aft to pick up sufficient rivets. I think I'll reskin it with .032 and put a full-length .062 reinforcing plate along the side (in other words the entire length of the elevator). No, there is no extra weight in there. The elevator rests trailing-edge down as one would expect. The cracks are probably the result of landing force accumulating over lots and lots of landings over time. Once in a while I do goof up a landing , but nothing of sufficient force to cause the cracks due to just one or two bad landings. Thank you for your comments Bill. Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:12 AM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks --> Did you ask Darryl about a fix? Seems just a thicker skin over the top and bottom would be enough with maybe the end tie together too. Thanks for posting this information, most guys would not for fear of others thinking it was hard landings that caused it, particularly if no one else reports it. Any chance the builder put "extra" weight in there trying to completely balance the elevator or does it hang trailing edge down like most of them do? Bill On 5/7/06, Ted Waltman wrote: > > > Guess I'm just lucky to find these things. Hopefully by documenting > the issues I find such will help others still in the build process or > prompt others that are now flying to double check their planes. > > Last year I discovered small cracks in the underside of both elevator > tip skins (part # EL-313). I drilled relief holes and kept an eye on > them. On the left side, I had to drill a second set of holes later in the year. > > Looking at the extent of the cracks, particularly on the left (pilot) > side it is evident that a major "redo" of this area is now in order. > As such, I've asked a few friends what techniques they might suggest.... > > [ Please see the rest of my comments and pictures here: > http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Elevator/Elevator.html ] > > Thank you for your input. > > Ted Waltman > > Moose N142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz7(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Moose: Elevator Tip Skin cracks
Date: May 09, 2006
I am by no means an expert, but I would say it is a result of energy absorbed from landings when the old style tail spring had no give in it...... I am not critizing your landings Ted, even taxing on rough terrain could cause this over time if nothing else to absorb unwanted energy as the tail spring is to do.... Dale SR-033 ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Fuselage Wrap oil canning & Magneto distributor "groove"
Date: May 20, 2006
I updated pictures of the oil canning problem with FUS-413 and my simple "L" brace fix to http://www.i1ci.com/flying/Moose/FusWrap/FusOilCan.html I also uploaded a picture of a nasty groove worn in my right mag rotor due to a contact screw (the unused one on the R-mag) working its way loose and falling into the rotor: http://www.i1ci.com/Flying/Moose/Magneto/DistributorCap.html Recommend you take out that unused contact screw on your R mag distributor at the earliest possible time! Ted Waltman Moose 142SR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics BBS Forums
Hello Listers, I just wanted to send out a reminder to all of the Listers regarding the new-ish BBS (Bulletin Board System) Forums that are available at Matronics for the Email Lists. The BBS Forums give you Web-based access into the same email content that is generated by the Email Lists. When an email message is posted to any of the email lists, a copy of the message is also copied to the respective List forum section on in the BBS Forums. By the same token, when a message is posted within the BBS Forum interface context, it will also be posted to the respective email list. Basically, the BBS Forums give you yet another method of accessing the Matronics Email List content. Some people prefer email, some prefer web forums; now you can have it either way or both with the Matronics Lists! You'll have to register for a login/password on the BBS Forum to _post_ from the BBS, but you can view message content without registering for an account. To Register for an account, look for the link at the top of the main BBS Forum page entitled "Register". Click on it and follow the instructions. Site Administrator approval will be required (to keep spammers out), but I will try to get these approved in less than 24 hours. If you haven't yet taken a look at the Matronics Email List content over on the BBS Forum, surf on over and take a peek. Its pretty cool. The URL is: http://forums.matronics.com I want to stress that the BBS Forums are simply an adjunct to the existing Matronics Email Lists; another way of viewing and interacting with the Matronics List content. If you like Email, great. If you like Web Forums, great. If you like both, great. Its up to you how you view and create your content. You will also find a URL link at the bottom of this email called Matronics List Features Navigator. You can click on this link at any time to find URL links to all of the other great features available on the Matronics site like the Archive Search Engine, List Browse, List Download, FAQs, Wiki, and lots more. There is a specific Navigator for each Email List and the link for this specific List is shown below. Thanks for all the great list participation and support; it is greatly appreciated! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Two New Email Lists at Matronics and Wiki Reminder!
Dear Listers, I have added two new email Lists to the Matronics Line up today. These include a Continental engine List and a Lightning aircraft List: =========== continental-list(at)matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Continental-List Everything related to the Continental aircraft engine. Sky's the limit on discussions here. =========== =========== lightning-list(at)matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List This is an exciting new design from Arion Aircraft LLC in Shelbyville Tennessee. Pete Krotje has a very nice web site on the aircraft that can be found here: http://www.arionaircraft.com/ =========== Also, if you haven't checked out the new Matronics Aircraft Wiki, swing by and have a look. Remember, a Wiki is only as good as the content that the members put into it. Have a look over some of the sections, and if you've got some interesting or useful, please add it to the Wiki! Its all about YOU! :-) The URL for the Matronics Wiki is: http://wiki.matronics.com Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Enclosure Support
Dear Listers, Over the years, I have resisted the urge to enable enclosure support on the Matronics Lists for a number of reasons relating to performance, capacity, capability, and security. However, its now 2006 and most everyone using email these days is on an email client that, at some level, supports the viewing and handling of enclosures. I get a fair amount of email each month from people on the various Lists asking why their posts of this or that picture didn't go through. Back quite a while ago by popular request, I enabled enclosure support for a few Lists such as the RV10-List, Kolb-List, and the Tailwind-List. Contrary to my fears, there really hasn't been any significant issues on these Lists relating to the advent of enclosure support and for the most part, members have policed themselves well with respect to the size of things they have posted. Having enclosures enabled on some Lists and not others has given me a fair amount of headaches with respect to filtering messages and content since the formats are often quite different between a typical MIME encoded message and a generic plain-text message. The spammers are getting more cleaver all the time and are constantly trying to thwart my best efforts at keeping them from posting to the Lists. So, for these reasons, I've have decided to go ahead and enable limited enclosure posting on all of the email Lists at Matronics. This will not only increase the utility of the Lists, but will afford me a better opportunity to filter out the chaff. Here are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: jpg, bmp, gif, txt, xls, pdf, and doc All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! I hope everyone will enjoy the added functionality of enclosures. Please police yourself and use good judgement when posting messages with enclosures using the guidelines I've outlined above. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Elevator VG's
Date: Jun 07, 2006
Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide where to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Elevator VG's
Date: Jun 07, 2006
I'm no aerodynamicist, but my guess is that is the critical spot where the boundary layer needs to be energized, whereas on the wing the critical lift area is near the front????? Anybody know the engineering behind the placement? Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide where to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Elevator VG's
Date: Jun 07, 2006
I was just wondering if someone's VG instructions were to place them there or if one guys saw it and just copied it. I would think the tail (airfoil) would have the same lift characteristics as any other? Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I'm no aerodynamicist, but my guess is that is the critical spot where the boundary layer needs to be energized, whereas on the wing the critical lift area is near the front????? Anybody know the engineering behind the placement? Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide where to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator VG's
Date: Jun 07, 2006
I was told to put them there by Jerry at PNW Aero. I didn't ask why but they did solve the lack of elevator authority at stall. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Aldrich To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I was just wondering if someone's VG instructions were to place them there or if one guys saw it and just copied it. I would think the tail (airfoil) would have the same lift characteristics as any other? Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:48 PM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I'm no aerodynamicist, but my guess is that is the critical spot where the boundary layer needs to be energized, whereas on the wing the critical lift area is near the front????? Anybody know the engineering behind the placement? Ted ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:58 PM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide where to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Elevator VG's
Date: Jun 08, 2006
Thanks Al. I made my own vg's and have no "instructions" so wasn't sure if that was the best spot but figured someone must have figured it was. I will put mine there too. Thanks again everyone. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Paxhia Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I was told to put them there by Jerry at PNW Aero. I didn't ask why but they did solve the lack of elevator authority at stall. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Aldrich <mailto:s-aldrich(at)comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I was just wondering if someone's VG instructions were to place them there or if one guys saw it and just copied it. I would think the tail (airfoil) would have the same lift characteristics as any other? Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I'm no aerodynamicist, but my guess is that is the critical spot where the boundary layer needs to be energized, whereas on the wing the critical lift area is near the front????? Anybody know the engineering behind the placement? Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide where to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: VG's under stab
Date: Jun 08, 2006
I installed the homemade vg's on the bottom of the stab. Thought I would try and see if Matt's picture enclosure is working. You can only see 5 pairs in the picture (if the picture comes through) but I have 8 on each side. The inboard ones had to move forward a little more. Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator VG's
From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Date: Jun 12, 2006
Just a SWAG but I'd say it's to keep the flow attached to the elevator at h igh deflection angles. The effect would be more analogous to the effect of slotted flaps. In this case it is increasing the effectiveness of full up e levator. Greg From: Ted Waltman Sent: Wed 06/07/06 10:47 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's I'm no aerodynamicist, but my guess is that is the critical spot where the boundary layer needs to be energized, whereas on the wing the critical lift area is near the front????? Anybody know the engineering behind the placement? Ted From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose -list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Elevator VG's Why do most guys put the stab/elevator VG's back at the hinge line (on the bottom of stab of course) and not more forward like on the wing? Is there some guidance on this? It seems to me it would be like putting the wing vg 's back just in front of the flaps or aileron hinge? Trying to decide wher e to put them. Thanks, Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2006
From: louis buckley <lbuckley122(at)comcast.net>
Subject: ? Rebel Quick Build
On the Murphy site, the rebel page states there is a quick build option now available. However, I can find no additional info. Does anyone have any info? I wonder if the riveting will be bucked rivets rather than pulled (as in the moose). What will the time savings be estimated at. What will be the cost? Will it be fabricated in the Philippines ? Very interesting. LouB CT, USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: ? Rebel Quick Build
Date: Jun 15, 2006
I see they now have a message on the front page stating fast build is available for ALL models. Guess you will have to email them direct. Let us know what you find out. Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of louis buckley Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:05 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: ? Rebel Quick Build On the Murphy site, the rebel page states there is a quick build option now available. However, I can find no additional info. Does anyone have any info? I wonder if the riveting will be bucked rivets rather than pulled (as in the moose). What will the time savings be estimated at. What will be the cost? Will it be fabricated in the Philippines ? Very interesting. LouB CT, USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2006
Subject: Re: ? Rebel Quick Build
I just got off the phone with them to order an info pack and video for the Moose. They're aware that their web site is a wreck at the moment and the person I talked to said that they hope to have an all-new site ready in a week or so (hopefully). I didn't ask about the bucked-rivet construction, but I thought I read somewhere that the QB kits were, indeed, buck riveted. I've done a lot of reading over the past week or two, and danged if I can remember where I read it. The current price for standard kit as of this date is US$38420, and the quick build is US$64420. Hope there's a sliver of useful information in there somewhere :D Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Still Dreaming of a CH801 Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42350#42350 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 22, 2006
Subject: Re: ? Rebel Quick Build
Chris was that a typo or has the quick build gone up another $10,000 in just the past 3 months?? It was $54K for the quick built not that long ago. Or possibly that is with the solid rivets and the pulled is less? Scott Moose 174 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 2:52 PM I just got off the phone with them to order an info pack and video for the Moose. They're aware that their web site is a wreck at the moment and the person I talked to said that they hope to have an all-new site ready in a week or so (hopefully). I didn't ask about the bucked-rivet construction, but I thought I read somewhere that the QB kits were, indeed, buck riveted. I've done a lot of reading over the past week or two, and danged if I can remember where I read it. The current price for standard kit as of this date is US$38420, and the quick build is US$64420. Hope there's a sliver of useful information in there somewhere :D Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Still Dreaming of a CH801 Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42350#42350 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Jun 22, 2006
Subject: Re: ? Rebel Quick Build
Hi Scott, That was the number I got from the person on the phone, unless I just misunderstood. It might have been $50K instead of $60K (significant, I know, but they sound alike). I'll find out in a couple of days when the info pack arrives and check back with the current numbers. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Still Dreaming of a CH801 Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42436#42436 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 27, 2006
Subject: New manual chapter update
An updated chapter to the Moose manual has been posted on the tech support page at Murphy. Didn't really look at the changes but I see they have "better" drawings. It will be nice when the entire manual has been redone like this chapter. They must be working on it. http://www.murphyair.com/SUPPORT/Ch9-2%20SR3500%20Fus-Cabin.pdf Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: ? Rebel Quick Build
I finally received the information pack from Murphy a day or two ago. They've got a nice collection of aircraft, to be sure. Unfortunately, there were no quick-build prices in the info pack -- only normal kit prices. I guess we'll just have to call if we want to real story :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Still Dreaming of a CH801 Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45021#45021 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Jul 05, 2006
Subject: Re: ? Rebel Quick Build
One other thing... They were out of one of the videos when I ordered and it hasn't come in yet. It was the video that covers the whole product line. Perhaps the rivet information previously asked is in that video. Hopefully I'll see it in a few more days and we'll be able to know. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Still Dreaming of a CH801 Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45022#45022 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight...
Dear Listers, This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a new Quad-processor 2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an Ultra 320 SCSI Raid 5 disk system and 5GB of DDR2 RAM. As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest version of Redhat Linux. Most of the software configuration work is already done for the migration, but I still have to sync all of the archive and forum data from the old system to the new system. I am anticipating about 2 to 3 hours of downtime for me to fully make the transition, although it could be considerable less if everything goes according to plan. The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the work, and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the upgrade. Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web Server, and List message distribution will function as normal. This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web Server and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing performance following the upgrade! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Reed Britt Civ 309 MXSG/MXRIE <Britt.REED(at)hill.af.mil>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: GM LS series - Engine Mount/PSRU
I have attached some information from EPI - Basically seems negative about the V8 concept from a weight perspective. $5,000 seems like a lot for a motor mount - I also contacted Vestas V8 and asked if he had any experience with Murphy aircraft - Apparently he has one or two under contract. He has a firewall forward setup that he quoted at $28,500 including the cowling, psru, radiators, computers, mount - mostly everything - He will not sell the motor mount separately. Britt -194SR _____ Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:44 PM Britt: Before committing to an LS2 / gearbox instead of the M14P for your Murphy Super Rebel - 3500, I suggest you consider, in some depth, the information presented at the following links: http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-Intro.htm http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-Primary.htm <http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-Primary.htm> and especially http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-Evaluation.htm <http://www.epi-eng.com/CNV-Evaluation.htm> .......Price and availability on a motor mount....... Price is time + materials. Typical is in the $5,000 range for a one-of-a-kind. I'd need detailed, accurate drawings of the firewall, cowlings, and the supporting fuselage structure to which the mount attaches, as well as your specification on the longitudinal placement of the powerplant. If my analysis showed that the fuselage structure is insufficient for the loads, I would decline to go further and charge you only for time already spent. ..... and a Mark 15? Castings are in process. Availability probably late this year, in view of current orders. Price depends on ratio; targeting $8500. Don't know for sure until finished parts are in hand. Sincerely, Jack Kane EPI, Inc. Britt A. Reed 309th MXSS/MDEA 5832 H Ave. Bldg 843 Hill AFB UT 84056 (801) 775 4471 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented...
Dear Listers, Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially set the limit to 2MB and we'll see how everyone likes that. If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and how large their message was. Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start... Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Hello all, I'm curious about the radial engine as a powerplant for the Moose and wondered how those flying feel about it. I've been perusing a number of sites dedicated to the Moose, spending a lot of time going through GoFLyAMoose.com and one or two others. On one of the sites, there was a article going over the engine in general, and it made it out to be (or at least I read it that way) that the engine is a potential maintenance hassle. Oil seeping into the combustion chambers, broken/bent connecting rods, etc. The overall air of the article didn't seem positive to me. That being the case, however, Murphy makes a pretty strong point that this engine is more power for half the price of a comparable Lyc or Continental. So with that in mind, do you feel that the radial is the best fit for this plane, dollar for dollar? Can your average A/P maintain one of these engines, or would I need to seek out special service? Also, what is fuel consumption on the radial compared to the (I)O-540/550? Thanks and best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54677#54677 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Chris, I replied over 2 hours ago on this and it hasn't shown up yet. I am on the forum page of Matronics now. If it doesn't show up soon I will re-post. Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54721#54721 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Thanks Scott, The Matronics forums is where I usually post messages as well instead of email. Appreciate you taking the time :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54723#54723 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2006
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
Chris, I guess I know a lot of people who swear by them and no one who swears at them, but I am a dealer and probably biased. (I have logged over 2000 hours behind them in many different aircraft) George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ScottA Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? Chris, I replied over 2 hours ago on this and it hasn't shown up yet. I am on the forum page of Matronics now. If it doesn't show up soon I will re-post. Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54721#54721 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
This may end up a double post apologies in advance but the regular email is taking for ever to come through so I will post from the forum now. Chris, I would be interested in what article you read. I don't have "a lot" of operational experience yet but we are nearly complete with our 40 hours. As you have read you can't just jump in the M14 hit the starter and go. However following the simple guidelines in the Russian manual and the hydraulic lock is a non issue. After shutdown most of the oil tends to drain down to the main oil sump. If this sump gets overfull then it can flow over into the lower cylinders (it will get into the lower cylinders even if the sump is not full but it is worse when the sump is full). The Russian's have you run the engine up to 1900 RPM or so for 30 second before shutdown to make the lower sump pump more effective and pump the oil out, giving room for the oil to drain. Also, a lot of us have installed "clean kits" which you probably already know are pumps the suck the oil out of the sump and send it back to the tank making room for the oil to drain. The lower cylinders also have intake manifold drains. The manual only has you draining these if suspected hydraulic lock or after engine has been shutdown for a period of time. As part of most "clean kits" these three drains are interconnected and have a quick drain on them. This is a "must have" as oil always comes out the drain and without it you would have to remove the cowl to get to the manifold drain plugs. Some articles make it sound like you can not feel the hydraulic lock and will bend a rod pulling it through. I don't believe that, with just a little experience it is very obvious when it starts to feel "hard" to pull. Then it is just a matter of removing the bottom three sparks plugs, opening the manifold drain and pulling the prop through until the oil drains out the exhaust and the manifold drain. Hassle - maybe, but I can do it in two or three minutes and it is part of the price to play the game. I have the automotive spark plug conversion so it is easy to pull off the plug wires and I carry a spark plug wrench all set to go. If you go out on a weekend of flying you may only have to do this the first time, as it usually takes three days or so of sitting around (but not always) to fill things up. I generally run my sump pump out after shutdown, close the main oil tank shutoff valve, open the manifold drain and then before I leave the airplane pull the prop through a few times and drain out any oil that has already gotten into the cylinders. I still don't think it can be beat, bang for the buck. My fuel flow hasn't been totally "calibrated" yet but if I believe my FF indicator I am getting between 13.5 GPH and 15 GPH at cruise settings(which for my Moose is about 105 to 110 Knots indicated, true in the 115 to 120 range (knots). This is all up high (8 to 10 thousand feet) as I haven't flown below that altitude yet. The Russian maintenance manual that comes (or should come) with the Russian engines is very specific in all the normal maintenance ("tasks" as they call them)and has cards that spell out exactly what to do in step by step order even telling what tool to use from the Russian tool kit. If a major problem should occur than special help may be in order but I would think any AP could figure it out with the help of the few vendors and shops experienced with the M14. I don't want to make it sound all rosy either. It can be a pain in the butt pulling the prop through, jump inside run the primer, jump back out, pull the prop through, jump back in hit the starter - to have it not start and have to repeat all over. Again part of the price to play - and it usually does start. I made it my first 30 hours without ever running out the starter air bottle. Then on a cool morning I final did run out (I don't think I was priming it enough for the cooler temps) I think once I get used to the cooler wx starts that won't be a problem. Have to run, hope that helps a little. Scott Moose 174SL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54727#54727 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2006
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Air cleaners
I have been asked over the years to recommend an air cleaner for the M14. I recently saw an instillation with a Marine stainless steel flame arrestor that also sported a foam air cleaner jacket. The flame arrestor is a good idea. Check Holley part number 720-22. I have experienced many carb fires over the years with back fires during starting and I still watch the carb air temp gage like a hawk when starting a Yak. If you have enough air to continue (or battery) you can usually suck them back into the engine without any damage. George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Just to go alone with George's comments - I have sworn at mine - but it turned out to be my fault, not the M14, so I had to apologize. [Wink] Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54731#54731 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Many thanks Scott, George, for your thoughts. The article you asked about, Scott, is the article from your site authored by Fred Abramson. I guess when the article's first paragraph mentioned says, "...the M14P may have some surprises in store for you. Expensive surprises. Maybe even scary surprises", a guy like me could develop a negative image from the get-go. The look of the rotary engine on the Moose is just too amazing to ignore, and the fuel-flow numbers you estimated are a lot lower than I expected them to be. That's quite welcome! I was worried that they were going to far exceed their flat-bodied counterparts. I can accept that if one want to use this kind of engine that one has to accept the side effects (if you will). Interestingly, a couple of hours after I first posted this message, I thought I'd peruse the M14 forums to see what kind of information is available, and I ran across references to some of the specialized kits made available from vendors to minimize some of those side effects. It appears that this engine is rather well supported in the U.S. Seeing that some of these engines make their way to ag aircraft, and living here in the middle of corn and cow country, it seems reasonable that one might find service for an M14 within a reasonable distance. Regarding the Russian maintenance manual of which you spoke, I presume there is a translation available, or are there lots of circles and arrows? :-) Of the limited things I've read, in addition to your comments, the engine's service manuals are said to be very well laid out and cover the material thoroughly. That would be a great benefit, to be sure. I would appreciate any direction to other references to this engine if you're aware of any. Thanks again for taking the time to write. I'm looking forward to continued reading of your Moose adventures, along with any trials and tribulations related to the airframe. I'm trying to stay on top of the tailwheel bulkead and elevator cracking incidents and see if Murphy addresses them before I'm ready to build anything. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54743#54743 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Also, Scott, did I see you have a GRT EIS in your Moose? If that was your plane, was that a specially programmed unit? Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54744#54744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2006
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
Send me an E-mail off list and I will send you (free) a CD with all English manuals and instillation notes. George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? Many thanks Scott, George, for your thoughts. The article you asked about, Scott, is the article from your site authored by Fred Abramson. I guess when the article's first paragraph mentioned says, "...the M14P may have some surprises in store for you. Expensive surprises. Maybe even scary surprises", a guy like me could develop a negative image from the get-go. The look of the rotary engine on the Moose is just too amazing to ignore, and the fuel-flow numbers you estimated are a lot lower than I expected them to be. That's quite welcome! I was worried that they were going to far exceed their flat-bodied counterparts. I can accept that if one want to use this kind of engine that one has to accept the side effects (if you will). Interestingly, a couple of hours after I first posted this message, I thought I'd peruse the M14 forums to see what kind of information is available, and I ran across references to some of the specialized kits made available from vendors to minimize some of those side effects. It appears that this engine is rather well supported in the U.S. Seeing that some of these engines make their way to ag aircraft, and living here in the middle of corn and cow country, it seems reasonable that one might find service for an M14 within a reasonable distance. Regarding the Russian maintenance manual of which you spoke, I presume there is a translation available, or are there lots of circles and arrows? :-) Of the limited things I've read, in addition to your comments, the engine's service manuals are said to be very well laid out and cover the material thoroughly. That would be a great benefit, to be sure. I would appreciate any direction to other references to this engine if you're aware of any. Thanks again for taking the time to write. I'm looking forward to continued reading of your Moose adventures, along with any trials and tribulations related to the airframe. I'm trying to stay on top of the tailwheel bulkead and elevator cracking incidents and see if Murphy addresses them before I'm ready to build anything. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54743#54743 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Yes, Fred's (whom I believe has passed away??) article seems to start out a little negative but I don't think he really intended it that way - more like if you can learn about some of this stuff from the start you can avoid the problems. There are plenty of bent connecting rods due to the hydraulic lock issues, but I would guess it is guys not following the recommended practices. I can't quote the numbers exactly but I know of a Moose and a C-185 that flew side by side with almost the same fuel flows. This same Moose will fly side by side with a super cub in slow flight also (Steve R's on my website). Yes, all the manuals have been translated to English. I think Murphy "secretly" upgrades stuff all the time without telling anyone. I "hear" (but have no proof) that certain skins are thicker here and there now. Not sure why they don't tell the rest of us but I suspect everyone would think they need the upgrade "free". I don't think they should, Cessna surely didn't give out all there changes over the years "free". I had a tail issue from a severe shimmy on my second landing. I then put a "real" (i.e. real expensive) tail wheel on and went back to the original MAM stinger with a steel rod inside and have had no issues since. Of course many variables so don't know the exact cause but I believe a combination of too flexible stinger and a poorly machined tail wheel (it was the "large" tail wheel from MAM that is really an Elite nose wheel). Someday I will put more "flying" related stuff on my site. I did just add a few flying pictures. Yes that is the GRT EIS. The Pitts 12 guys had them set it up for the M14. Works great. I suspect with all the new stuff coming out an improved one will be out soon. This works good though. Seems odd at first that it has 9 EGT and 3 CHT when you can not lean the mixture but you can tell a lot from just the diff in EGTs. The Russians had only 2 cylinders with CHT indications and no EGTs. Later, Scott 174SL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54754#54754 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air cleaners
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 14, 2006
Thanks George. I haven't had any luck with that part number yet on a search though. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54755#54755 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2006
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: Air cleaners
Scott, Try this link http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=59-3364 George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ScottA Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Air cleaners Thanks George. I haven't had any luck with that part number yet on a search though. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54755#54755 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2006
From: bob tripp <btripp(at)interisland.net>
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
George-- We need one too, if that is possible. We have #255 under construction. BobTripp At 12:47 PM 08/14/2006, you wrote: > >Send me an E-mail off list and I will send you (free) a CD with all English >manuals and instillation notes. > >George Coy >President >Gesoco Industries Inc. >629 Airport Rd. >Swanton, VT 05488 >TEL 802-868-5633 >FAX 802-868-4465 >Web Site www.gesoco.com >e-mail George(at)gesoco.com >Franklin County Airport (KFSO) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris >In Madison >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:31 PM >To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? > > >Many thanks Scott, George, for your thoughts. > >The article you asked about, Scott, is the article from your site authored >by Fred Abramson. I guess when the article's first paragraph mentioned >says, "...the M14P may have some surprises in store for you. Expensive >surprises. Maybe even scary surprises", a guy like me could develop a >negative image from the get-go. > >The look of the rotary engine on the Moose is just too amazing to ignore, >and the fuel-flow numbers you estimated are a lot lower than I expected them >to be. That's quite welcome! I was worried that they were going to far >exceed their flat-bodied counterparts. > >I can accept that if one want to use this kind of engine that one has to >accept the side effects (if you will). Interestingly, a couple of hours >after I first posted this message, I thought I'd peruse the M14 forums to >see what kind of information is available, and I ran across references to >some of the specialized kits made available from vendors to minimize some of >those side effects. It appears that this engine is rather well supported in >the U.S. Seeing that some of these engines make their way to ag aircraft, >and living here in the middle of corn and cow country, it seems reasonable >that one might find service for an M14 within a reasonable distance. > >Regarding the Russian maintenance manual of which you spoke, I presume there >is a translation available, or are there lots of circles and arrows? :-) Of >the limited things I've read, in addition to your comments, the engine's >service manuals are said to be very well laid out and cover the material >thoroughly. That would be a great benefit, to be sure. I would appreciate >any direction to other references to this engine if you're aware of any. > >Thanks again for taking the time to write. I'm looking forward to continued >reading of your Moose adventures, along with any trials and tribulations >related to the airframe. I'm trying to stay on top of the tailwheel bulkead >and elevator cracking incidents and see if Murphy addresses them before I'm >ready to build anything. > >Best regards, >Chris > >-------- >Chris Owens >Waunakee, WI > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54743#54743 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2006
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
Send me your Snail Mail address (off list) and we will send it out. George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of bob tripp Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:09 AM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? George-- We need one too, if that is possible. We have #255 under construction. BobTripp At 12:47 PM 08/14/2006, you wrote: Send me an E-mail off list and I will send you (free) a CD with all English manuals and instillation notes. George Coy President Gesoco Industries Inc. 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 TEL 802-868-5633 FAX 802-868-4465 Web Site www.gesoco.com e-mail George(at)gesoco.com Franklin County Airport (KFSO) -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:31 PM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? Many thanks Scott, George, for your thoughts. The article you asked about, Scott, is the article from your site authored by Fred Abramson. I guess when the article's first paragraph mentioned says, "...the M14P may have some surprises in store for you. Expensive surprises. Maybe even scary surprises", a guy like me could develop a negative image from the get-go. The look of the rotary engine on the Moose is just too amazing to ignore, and the fuel-flow numbers you estimated are a lot lower than I expected them to be. That's quite welcome! I was worried that they were going to far exceed their flat-bodied counterparts. I can accept that if one want to use this kind of engine that one has to accept the side effects (if you will). Interestingly, a couple of hours after I first posted this message, I thought I'd peruse the M14 forums to see what kind of information is available, and I ran across references to some of the specialized kits made available from vendors to minimize some of those side effects. It appears that this engine is rather well supported in the U.S. Seeing that some of these engines make their way to ag aircraft, and living here in the middle of corn and cow country, it seems reasonable that one might find service for an M14 within a reasonable distance. Regarding the Russian maintenance manual of which you spoke, I presume there is a translation available, or are there lots of circles and arrows? :-) Of the limited things I've read, in addition to your comments, the engine's service manuals are said to be very well laid out and cover the material thoroughly. That would be a great benefit, to be sure. I would appreciate any direction to other references to this engine if you're aware of any. Thanks again for taking the time to write. I'm looking forward to continued reading of your Moose adventures, along with any trials and tribulations related to the airframe. I'm trying to stay on top of the tailwheel bulkead and elevator cracking incidents and see if Murphy addresses them before I'm ready to build anything. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54743#54743 MurphyMoose-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http://forums.matronics.com - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - http://wiki.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2006
From: bob tripp <btripp(at)interisland.net>
Subject: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con?
Thanks George-- P.O. BOX 1896, FRIDAY HARBOR,WA 98250 Bob At 05:02 AM 08/15/2006, you wrote: >Send me your Snail Mail address (off list) and we will send it out. > > >George Coy >President >Gesoco Industries Inc. >629 Airport Rd. >Swanton, VT 05488 >TEL 802-868-5633 >FAX 802-868-4465 >Web Site www.gesoco.com >e-mail George(at)gesoco.com >Franklin County Airport (KFSO) >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of bob tripp >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:09 AM >To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? > >George-- We need one too, if that is possible. We have #255 under >construction. >BobTripp > >At 12:47 PM 08/14/2006, you wrote: >> >>Send me an E-mail off list and I will send you (free) a CD with all English >>manuals and instillation notes. >> >>George Coy >>President >>Gesoco Industries Inc. >>629 Airport Rd. >>Swanton, VT 05488 >>TEL 802-868-5633 >>FAX 802-868-4465 >>Web Site www.gesoco.com >>e-mail George(at)gesoco.com >>Franklin County Airport (KFSO) >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[ mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris >>In Madison >>Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:31 PM >>To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Radial engine: more pro than con? >> >> >> >>Many thanks Scott, George, for your thoughts. >> >>The article you asked about, Scott, is the article from your site authored >>by Fred Abramson. I guess when the article's first paragraph mentioned >>says, "...the M14P may have some surprises in store for you. Expensive >>surprises. Maybe even scary surprises", a guy like me could develop a >>negative image from the get-go. >> >>The look of the rotary engine on the Moose is just too amazing to ignore, >>and the fuel-flow numbers you estimated are a lot lower than I expected them >>to be. That's quite welcome! I was worried that they were going to far >>exceed their flat-bodied counterparts. >> >>I can accept that if one want to use this kind of engine that one has to >>accept the side effects (if you will). Interestingly, a couple of hours >>after I first posted this message, I thought I'd peruse the M14 forums to >>see what kind of information is available, and I ran across references to >>some of the specialized kits made available from vendors to minimize some of >>those side effects. It appears that this engine is rather well supported in >>the U.S. Seeing that some of these engines make their way to ag aircraft, >>and living here in the middle of corn and cow country, it seems reasonable >>that one might find service for an M14 within a reasonable distance. >> >>Regarding the Russian maintenance manual of which you spoke, I presume there >>is a translation available, or are there lots of circles and arrows? :-) Of >>the limited things I've read, in addition to your comments, the engine's >>service manuals are said to be very well laid out and cover the material >>thoroughly. That would be a great benefit, to be sure. I would appreciate >>any direction to other references to this engine if you're aware of any. >> >>Thanks again for taking the time to write. I'm looking forward to continued >>reading of your Moose adventures, along with any trials and tribulations >>related to the airframe. I'm trying to stay on top of the tailwheel bulkead >>and elevator cracking incidents and see if Murphy addresses them before I'm >>ready to build anything. >> >>Best regards, >>Chris >> >>-------- >>Chris Owens >>Waunakee, WI >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54743#54743 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>MurphyMoose-List Email Forum - >>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List >>- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>http://forums.matronics.com >>- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >>http://wiki.matronics.com >>- List Contribution Web Site - >>-Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >=================================== > > >=================================== > > >=================================== > > >=================================== > > >=================================== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radial parts from Murphy
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2006
Hello all, For those using a radial on their Moose, how much of the engine components are available from Murphy and how much did you have to acquire from other sources? I'm looking at the current price list and they show the engine mount (with or without mounting ring), cowl, exhaust, oils system, and fuel system available. Are these kits complete, or does one have to go through other sources to get additional parts? For example, I don't see any reference to the air start system components. Is this system usually supplied by the engine vendor (air tank, solenoids, etc.) with the engine, or is it also an additional cost? I'm trying to get an idea how much it costs to purchase/install this engine and its associated components, but don't have a clear picture. Thanks and best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55237#55237 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial parts from Murphy
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2006
Chris, I didn't use any of Murphy's kits (they weren't really available when I put my stuff together) but I have seen a few that did and the looked fairly complete. The oil system had the tank, oil cooler, cooler shroud, hoses etc. You can do it cheaper but then you have the hassle of finding all the individual parts. No, the engines do not come with the air system as far as air storage tank and start solenoids. The engine does have the compressor on it but you need to get the storage tanks and start valves on your own. The Kimball's sell a nice air "kit" or you can get the parts on your own for that too. I am sure George has Russian air tanks, oil tanks etc as do the Hay's. I got my Russian exhaust for about $1600 just a year and a half ago. Not sure what exhaust it is that MAM is selling but it seem very high $$. Of course if it is the slip joint aftermarket ones like the Kimball's are selling it is much nicer than the YAK exhaust - no leaks to contend with at the joints. A few things on that MAM list are a waste - like the pitot kit - it is two dollar aluminum tube welded up. You can do way better on eBay for that. Also the strobe system is nice but good ones can be had for half the price. I don't see them listing there carb heat/filter airbox on that list but they do have one of those too. Have to run. Hope that helps a little Scott Moose 174SL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55249#55249 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial parts from Murphy
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2006
Hi Scott, Thanks for the tips. I saw all the components from Mr. Kimball on his web site. It looks like he's got a nice assortment of good-to-have assemblies. There is an air box of some sort on the Murphy site at , but I'm not sure if it's the assembly you're referring to. Maybe that's cabin heat and not carb heat? Not sure... Not a very good description of what it's used for. Man, what a horrible web site... Thanks again for your insight. I look at your site almost daily, as well as the referenced builders there, for doses of inspiration. It's going to be a while before I get the okay from my better half to start a project of this magnitude, but a guy has to dream :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55266#55266 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial parts from Murphy
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 16, 2006
Yes that is the Murphy air box that mounts onto the bottom of the M14 Carb and then you have a place for an air filter and a hookup for carb heat. The cabin heat boxes come off the exhaust. Not sure if that exhaust MAM is showing is dual heat muffs or single. The YAK exhaust I have is just a single heat muff. I can't argue - the MAM site is in bad shape. They hired a guy to fix it up and he got a good start (except for all that orange) and then he is gone now too. Rumor they have someone working on it. I can't say too much as I haven't exactly done much to mine lately - but then mine is just hobby - they really need theirs fixed. Yes, you must have the dream...and the support of the better half. I would have never gotten this done without her support. Take care, Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55268#55268 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KJKimball(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 17, 2006
Subject: exhaust outlet Question
Group, Could one of you measure the center to center dimension of the exhaust outlet locations on the Moose cowl and get the number to me? Basically, the center to center measurement of the tail pipes at the cowl. We have a question on it and I don't have access to a cowl here in FL. Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax _www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/) _www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Cupitt" <mark(at)metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: exhaust outlet Question
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Kevin Measured the cowls we have here and they are 20 =BE=94 center to center (give or take 1/8=94) If you need more precise, let me know Regards Mark Cupitt Philippines _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KJKimball(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: exhaust outlet Question Group, Could one of you measure the center to center dimension of the exhaust outlet locations on the Moose cowl and get the number to me? Basically, the center to center measurement of the tail pipes at the cowl. We have a question on it and I don't have access to a cowl here in FL. Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com <http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/> www.pittsmodel12.com <http://www.pittsmodel12.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KJKimball(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Subject: Re: exhaust outlet Question
Thanks Mark. That is the number we have too. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax _www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/) _www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vertical stab variations
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Good morning all, Looking through a number of photos of completed Meese, I noticed a pretty significant difference in almost all of the vertical stabs, or at least the fairings leading up to them. Some were really quite tall, while others not. Why the variation? What benefits are realized by a larger surface area here? I'm reading the current price list and in the available options I see a dorsal fin kit (which I presume is the fairing ahead of the vertical stab), a seafin kit (which I presume are the little wings I see on some horizontal stabs near the elevator hinges), and a ventral fin kit (which I presume goes beneath the vertical stab on the underside of the tail). So, who among you are using a custom setup, and who has the one Murphy offers? Do I need to plan for some additional work here, or are all the parts there? I see that Scott did something custom here. Are these parts replaceable/removable as the role of the aircraft changes (floats vs. wheels)? Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55505#55505 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab variations
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
If going not going on floats the standard fin fairing is fine, nothing else needed. It is the smallest one you see out there. As you may already know on floats you need more vertical area to offset the yawing moments that can be produced by the floats sticking out in front of the CG. Without increased vertical stab area if you get a little yaw going the floats tend to increase the yaw and it feels bad. Not sure what "dorsal" fin kit MAM is selling now but my guess it is the larger fiberglass one that you see on Mowat's Moose. (Email Nancy in shipping and see if she can send a picture?) A few of us (see Steve's and Ron's on my completion page) didn't like the look of that one (thought it didn't "flow" into the fin very well) so we copied the C-185 - and made it out of aluminum. The bottom ventral fin and stab sea fins are all just ways to increase the vertical area. Those are all removable, but generally the top fin fairing is not. Originally Montana Float came up with those on their installation. Don't mean to try and be the shell answer man but stuck at the in-laws with bad wx and an internet connection... Plus not much activity on this site, hopefully more Moose guys will find it and start using it. Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55536#55536 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab variations
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
The problem with using the forum to post - no auto spell and grammer checker. Of course that first sentence was "If not going on floats.." Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55539#55539 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab variations
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Hehe... spell checker... good one :-) I certainly appreciate your time, Mr. Answer Man. The more info out there, the better. I, too, am glad my in-laws have an Internet conneciton, for the very same reasons. I figure if I've got these seemingly odd questions, someone else has probably thought about them, too. Hopefully, we can build up a reasonable knowledge base here. I've already learned a lot :-) I don't know a thing about seaplanes (other than I think I need one!), so I'm happy for any info I get. Especially since nobody seems to be using the seaplane forums. I never thought about the floats being ahead of the CG, but it makes sense. The vertical stab area makes perfect sense now. Appreciate the insight. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55572#55572 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab variations
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Does the larger vertical stab area negatively affect aircraft performance when on wheels? Seems like more sail area if landing in a crosswind. I've never flown in a tailwheel aircraft, and I've got kind of a fear of the dreaded ground loop I keep hearing about. I was out on Controller.com last night looking at C-175s and C-185s and many of them had damage history from ground loops, although they claim to have been repaired. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55573#55573 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Singleton" <singleberry(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tailwheel issues
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Attn Scott, (et al) I noticed you had a mention of a tailwheel issue, please forgive me if I am telling you something you already know. (I probably learned it off of a link on your site, lol) Quote: I had a tail issue from a severe shimmy on my second landing. I then put a "real" (i.e. real expensive) tail wheel on and went back to the original MAM stinger with a steel rod inside and have had no issues since. Of course many variables so don't know the exact cause but I believe a combination of too flexible stinger and a poorly machined tail wheel (it was the "large" tail wheel from MAM that is really an Elite nose wheel). End Quote I do know that the castor angle of the tailwheel pivot must be positive (ie leading with the lower side of the tailwheel spindle, at least I think this is considered positive) This seems counter-intuitive from a static standpoint, but for dynamic stability it is very important. A Murphy Moose builder had a wonderful write-up on this issue of which I now can not locate but could re-create if anyone wanted. Cheers all Jake (Wishing I had a moose to build) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jake Singleton" <singleberry(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tailwheel issues
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Of course the second I send that I find the link I was looking for, it is off of Ted Waltman's web site, and redirects you to the following article http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php cheers Jake ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tailwheel issues
From: "ScottA" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 18, 2006
Thanks Jake, I do agree with that article on tail wheel angles. It gets confusing because everybody has a different idea of what is "positive" and what is "negative" castor angle. There is a link at the bottom of that article showing "good" and "bad" geometry. I agree with it as do all the high time TW guys I talked too - but you find just as many that don't agree. Flat is ideal but you don't want to start flat because as you load you will go negative angle (which many think is "good" - I do not). Also the angle is only part of the shimmy story the tightness ("preload" is what XP calls it) of the tail wheel swivel makes a big difference - especially on the large tail wheels and needs to be tightened periodically. FWIW Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=55672#55672 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OT: Murphy Yukon?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 01, 2006
Hi all, Not completely Moose related, but I don't have anywhere else to go :-) I talked with Mr. Murphy at Oshkosh this year, and we briefly discussed the Yukon. He said it is essentially the exact same airframe as the Moose except with a 2500 lb gross weight and an available nosewheel configuration. I don't have any data on the SR2500 to look at in the info pack I received from them earlier this year, nor is the Yukon info included within it. Is the Yukon essentially a rebadged SR2500, or a completely different airplane? He said he plans to have it available at Sun 'n' Fun next year, but I doubt I'll get down there. But he did mention that it will be in Oshkosh next year. So I definitely plan to give it a look. I wonder if there are any plans to put that newer Rotec 150HP radial on it or if it's too small... hmmm... :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58967#58967 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 04, 2006
See uploaded picture in SR-Moose, 106 S/M Wings. In taking apart one of my wing leading edge skins, I discovered that the plastic tube that protects wires as well as my pitot / static tubes was simply zip-tied to all of the leading edge ribs. As you can see in the uploaded picture, after about 230 hours in my plane, the "protective" tube in mine is a short time away from cutting wires / tubes. About half of the rib-attachments show cuts of this magnitude. I think someone told me that Moose quick build wings all have their wires / pitot tubes routed (zip-tied) like this. Is that true, or am I just lucky? Seems that there's a lurking problem out there... Ted Waltman ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2006
Interesting. I'd not have thought that the vibration could but through the tube like that. But I reckon it can. I wonder what would be a prefered method for doing this... pondering... Is there a 90-degree clamp designed for this type of situation, I wonder? Nothing that I saw in the ACS catalog... hmmm... Perhaps glue/epoxy a rubber/nylon edge piece where the conduit meets the metal? Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59411#59411 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2006
I reckon it would look something like this, now that I've been looking over some other construction photos: I'll keep this as a mental note for myself when it comes my time :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59424#59424 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 04, 2006
Hello Chris, I believe clamps such as these are the preferred attach method: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ms21919clamps.php Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings? --> Interesting. I'd not have thought that the vibration could but through the tube like that. But I reckon it can. I wonder what would be a prefered method for doing this... pondering... Is there a 90-degree clamp designed for this type of situation, I wonder? Nothing that I saw in the ACS catalog... hmmm... Perhaps glue/epoxy a rubber/nylon edge piece where the conduit meets the metal? Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59411#59411 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 04, 2006
Thanks Ted, I saw those in the catalog, but I didn't see how they'd make the 90 degree turn. That's when I ran across the photo mentioned previously that showed a 90 degree bracket attached to the wing framework, then the clamp attached to the bracket. I thought that maybe there was one with this angle already built in, but I guess not. Rather simple solution, though :-) Thanks again, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59510#59510 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Ted, Does it look like there is room to run the conduit down the very leading edge? Along the front side of the front spare, just inside the curve? Seems it couldn't move much at all in there and you wouldn't have to put in a zillion clamps, however not sure how much room to get wires around the forward attach fitting. Maybe jog it back to the other side just before getting there. Of course my FB fuselage is just like yours so if the lights stop working I'll know where to look . Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Ted, Did you insert the picture in the matronic's list or just the rebel list archives? I didn't see it here, not sure if you knew that you can now insert (or was it attach?) right into the Matronic's emails now. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? See uploaded picture in SR-Moose, 106 S/M Wings. In taking apart one of my wing leading edge skins, I discovered that the plastic tube that protects wires as well as my pitot / static tubes was simply zip-tied to all of the leading edge ribs. As you can see in the uploaded picture, after about 230 hours in my plane, the "protective" tube in mine is a short time away from cutting wires / tubes. About half of the rib-attachments show cuts of this magnitude. I think someone told me that Moose quick build wings all have their wires / pitot tubes routed (zip-tied) like this. Is that true, or am I just lucky? Seems that there's a lurking problem out there... Ted Waltman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Sorry folks...forgot to insert the picture of the conduit in my post yesterday. Thanks for reminding me Scott. I'll try inserting the picture in this email. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Ted, Did you insert the picture in the matronic's list or just the rebel list archives? I didn't see it here, not sure if you knew that you can now insert (or was it attach?) right into the Matronic's emails now. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? See uploaded picture in SR-Moose, 106 S/M Wings. In taking apart one of my wing leading edge skins, I discovered that the plastic tube that protects wires as well as my pitot / static tubes was simply zip-tied to all of the leading edge ribs. As you can see in the uploaded picture, after about 230 hours in my plane, the "protective" tube in mine is a short time away from cutting wires / tubes. About half of the rib-attachments show cuts of this magnitude. I think someone told me that Moose quick build wings all have their wires / pitot tubes routed (zip-tied) like this. Is that true, or am I just lucky? Seems that there's a lurking problem out there... Ted Waltman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Ted, are any of the "looser" ones doing this? Just wondering if it is okay if they hadn't pulled the wrap tie so tight? Another way is to use a short piece of rubber hose as a stand off and still use the wrap tie. Wrap tie goes around whatever through the hose and then around the other whatever. I have a bunch of stand offs like that in my engine compartment and it works great. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Sorry folks...forgot to insert the picture of the conduit in my post yesterday. Thanks for reminding me Scott. I'll try inserting the picture in this email. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Ted, Did you insert the picture in the matronic's list or just the rebel list archives? I didn't see it here, not sure if you knew that you can now insert (or was it attach?) right into the Matronic's emails now. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? See uploaded picture in SR-Moose, 106 S/M Wings. In taking apart one of my wing leading edge skins, I discovered that the plastic tube that protects wires as well as my pitot / static tubes was simply zip-tied to all of the leading edge ribs. As you can see in the uploaded picture, after about 230 hours in my plane, the "protective" tube in mine is a short time away from cutting wires / tubes. About half of the rib-attachments show cuts of this magnitude. I think someone told me that Moose quick build wings all have their wires / pitot tubes routed (zip-tied) like this. Is that true, or am I just lucky? Seems that there's a lurking problem out there... Ted Waltman atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Cable routing--quick build wings?
Date: Sep 05, 2006
Yes, it it just the ribs with the tighter zip-ties that exhibit the problem. Of course, there's no way to know what's loose or tight if one didn't see inside their wing before it was closed up. I like your simple approach for the stand-offs. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Ted, are any of the "looser" ones doing this? Just wondering if it is okay if they hadn't pulled the wrap tie so tight? Another way is to use a short piece of rubber hose as a stand off and still use the wrap tie. Wrap tie goes around whatever through the hose and then around the other whatever. I have a bunch of stand offs like that in my engine compartment and it works great. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Sorry folks...forgot to insert the picture of the conduit in my post yesterday. Thanks for reminding me Scott. I'll try inserting the picture in this email. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:06 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? Ted, Did you insert the picture in the matronic's list or just the rebel list archives? I didn't see it here, not sure if you knew that you can now insert (or was it attach?) right into the Matronic's emails now. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Cable routing--quick build wings? See uploaded picture in SR-Moose, 106 S/M Wings. In taking apart one of my wing leading edge skins, I discovered that the plastic tube that protects wires as well as my pitot / static tubes was simply zip-tied to all of the leading edge ribs. As you can see in the uploaded picture, after about 230 hours in my plane, the "protective" tube in mine is a short time away from cutting wires / tubes. About half of the rib-attachments show cuts of this magnitude. I think someone told me that Moose quick build wings all have their wires / pitot tubes routed (zip-tied) like this. Is that true, or am I just lucky? Seems that there's a lurking problem out there... Ted Waltman atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 10, 2006
Hello all, Seeing MAM's Moose for sale and reading comments on the other Rebel list related to their lack of a demo plane once it's gone had me thinking on another plane (so to speak). How does one prepare himself/herself to fly a Moose? Looks like the closest aircraft to the Moose is a C195, closely followed by a C185. I'm guessing that a C195 is going to be hard to get training in, although C185s would probably be a bit easier to find. In speaking with some of the insurance folks, they seem to require some level of transition training in the aircraft to be flown. I'm guessing the 10-hour ballpark or so. So where does one go to get this transition training? If MAM doesn't keep an airplane around, how can you count on them for that service? And how would they charge you for that? Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire. It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering... Thanks for your insight :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60876#60876 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
Date: Sep 10, 2006
Hi Chris, You didn't say how much other experience you have in general, but if your an experienced C172 or C182 pilot and have flown a couple of different airplanes transition will only be a big deal until after your first flight in the Moose. I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Maule and was never very comfortable with it but I could get it on the ground without breaking things. The Moose was much easier to handle than a Maule. It lands like a big Champ, just a little faster approach. Insurance companies have their own rules. My insurance co. wanted 25 hours of solo before carrying passengers but the FAA wanted 40 hours so 40 hours was the number. My guess is that if you can get a few hours in a C180, C185 or a Maule you will be fine. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship > > > Hello all, > > Seeing MAM's Moose for sale and reading comments on the other Rebel list > related to their lack of a demo plane once it's gone had me thinking on > another plane (so to speak). How does one prepare himself/herself to fly > a Moose? Looks like the closest aircraft to the Moose is a C195, closely > followed by a C185. I'm guessing that a C195 is going to be hard to get > training in, although C185s would probably be a bit easier to find. > > In speaking with some of the insurance folks, they seem to require some > level of transition training in the aircraft to be flown. I'm guessing > the 10-hour ballpark or so. So where does one go to get this transition > training? If MAM doesn't keep an airplane around, how can you count on > them for that service? And how would they charge you for that? > > Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for > transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't > charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be > used for hire. > > It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering... > > Thanks for your insight :-) > > Best regards, > Chris > > -------- > Chris Owens > Waunakee, WI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60876#60876 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 11, 2006
Hi Al, Thanks for the feedback. To be honest, I have literally zero experience. I'm starting my filght training next spring/summer, and the Moose is my ultimate goal. I'm trying to plan my optimal training path so I can get the right amount of time in the proper number of aircraft. A guy's gotta have a goal :-) I'm not getting any younger (39 next week), so I want to be as efficient as possible if I hope to have a Moose by the time I turn 50 :-) Thanks again for your insight. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60928#60928 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
Date: Sep 11, 2006
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Yes, you can pay for transition training with a couple gotchas. Generallly you cannot use an experimental aircraft for compensation or hire but that does not preclude you from paying for flight instruction in one. The trick is, other than your own aircraft, who is going to loan you their baby to train in? And don't think you can get away with paying some exhorbitant rate to the instructor... that's been tried and failed. And there's really no need any longer since there is now a provision for someone to recertify their experimental aircraft for transition training. It does not have to be factory sponsored but I believe it's restricted to transition training, i.e. no primary flight instruction. The RV community has several instructors using their aircraft under this provision. Greg Young Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire. It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering... Thanks for your insight :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
Date: Sep 11, 2006
I was just reading in my EAA magazine about one of the guys that makes a living doing transition training in the RV - he flies about 700 hours a year I think it said. (Sept. issue, Plane talk, page 118, by Lauran Paine). Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship Yes, you can pay for transition training with a couple gotchas. Generallly you cannot use an experimental aircraft for compensation or hire but that does not preclude you from paying for flight instruction in one. The trick is, other than your own aircraft, who is going to loan you their baby to train in? And don't think you can get away with paying some exhorbitant rate to the instructor... that's been tried and failed. And there's really no need any longer since there is now a provision for someone to recertify their experimental aircraft for transition training. It does not have to be factory sponsored but I believe it's restricted to transition training, i.e. no primary flight instruction. The RV community has several instructors using their aircraft under this provision. Greg Young Which brings me to yet another question. Can you really pay someone for transition training anyway? I was under the impression that you couldn't charge anyone for anything when flying an experimental since they can't be used for hire. It all seems like a real nice catch 22, doesn't it? Pondering... Thanks for your insight :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: No Murphy Demonstrator
Date: Sep 11, 2006
A few of us were talking about this awhile ago. Not sure how they can sell airplanes with no demonstrators at all, I know I would not have bought one if I hadn't flown with Robin first. I guess just counting on others giving rides in there airplanes. Like someone said, sort of like going to a car dealership and all they have is paper pamphlets for you to look at before you buy. But then maybe they are working on a demonstrator that is from their own guys, like someone said that one was built by the Gator folks. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No Murphy Demonstrator
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2006
It does seem odd. All I have to go on are reports from folks like the folks here who are already flying and, of course, the printed marketing material. I want to have faith; I really do. But you've got to wonder what motivates them not to have one (or keep selling off the ones they have). Do they not live long lives? Are they too expensive to maintain? Can MAM only afford to have one plane flying at a time? I'm confident it's a fine airplane, though. Just makes you think... Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61145#61145 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: No Murphy Demonstrator
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2006
"...folks like the folks here..."? Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department... ~Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61146#61146 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: No Murphy Demonstrator
Date: Sep 12, 2006
LOL.. I just sent a note to Murphy Sales and asked what is up with selling it. I'll let you know if they say anything. Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:42 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: No Murphy Demonstrator "...folks like the folks here..."? Welcome to the Department of Redundancy Department... ~Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61146#61146 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: MAM Website
Date: Sep 12, 2006
I just got a note from the new person working on the MAM website. She is working on a new, cleaner site but doesn't have a time frame when it will be up and running. FWIW. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAM Website
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2006
Well, hopefully sooner than later :-) I'm a web pro for a consumer goods company. It's my job to make sure folks can find stuff easily and the design is solid and usable. I sure hope they come together and get the thing fixed. All those broken and non-working links annoy the crap out of me [Evil or Very Mad] In the words of Rock Hound, Steve Buscemi's character, in "Armagedon", "Do a good job... do a good job..." Of course, MAM isn't defusing and nuclear weapon, but what's the difference between that and web design anyway? Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61237#61237 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2006
Interestingly, I just found a good article on the EAA web site that covers it (log in required). If one were a CFI or DPE, it would appear that one can offer his/her aircraft as a transition trainer. Primary flight instruction is not permitted unless it's your own plane, but it is permitted for transition training with the appropriate paperwork filed. So there we go, just build two. One to offer transition training in for a fee and the other to fly for your own :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61262#61262 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transition aircraft: progressing toward Moose-ship
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Sep 12, 2006
To clarify, you don't have to be a CFI or a DPE to rent your plane for transition training. But it seems like it would be a nice little side job if you were a CFI/DPE and there were a good number of Meese about :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61270#61270 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: MAM demonstrators
Date: Sep 13, 2006
I just got an email from St=E9phane at MAM about their demonstrator status. They probably won=92t have a Moose demonstrator anytime soon. They are working on the Yukon demonstrator. They also have the Radial Rebel demonstrator and they are working on a LSA compliant Rebel demonstrator as well as radial powered Renegade. So for now Moose guys will just have to catch a ride with a completed builder. FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Andair fuel valve leaking
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Anybody else have an Andair fuel valve that lets fuel transfer from tank to tank with the valve in the off position? This is a L-R-Both-Off valve, FS20X4. I've written to Andair tech support twice with no response either time. No impressed. FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Andair fuel valve leaking
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Interesting about 1) their lack of response and 2) about the leak. Another experienced builder gave their valves high marks. Maybe I'll rethink out using them... Thanks for the input. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:30 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Andair fuel valve leaking Anybody else have an Andair fuel valve that lets fuel transfer from tank to tank with the valve in the off position? This is a L-R-Both-Off valve, FS20X4. I've written to Andair tech support twice with no response either time. No impressed. FWIW Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Andair fuel valve leaking
Date: Sep 13, 2006
I've always heard they were good valves - they must be as there are a lot out there?? I know Steve's leaks also. If you fill one tank, overnight they will be level. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Andair fuel valve leaking Interesting about 1) their lack of response and 2) about the leak. Another experienced builder gave their valves high marks. Maybe I'll rethink out using them... Thanks for the input. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:30 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Andair fuel valve leaking Anybody else have an Andair fuel valve that lets fuel transfer from tank to tank with the valve in the off position? This is a L-R-Both-Off valve, FS20X4. I've written to Andair tech support twice with no response either time. No impressed. FWIW Scott atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures
Date: Sep 13, 2006
I'm working on my horizontal stab. I've looked at a couple of design options for making a provision for the attachment of sea fins to the h-stab tip rib. My first question is in the below picture. I'm concerned if I put a .032 doubler and then later install the actual sea fin (out of .040 ?) whether I'll have enough clearance for elevator travel. My next question involves a the fact that my main stabilizer tip rib is an older version, and I don't have the factory stabilizer hinge doubler. What I propose to do is to in stall 3 channel-type brackets that would each pick up 3 rivets on the top and bottom of the stringers--each as wide as the space between the coke-bottle indentations in my stabilizer tip rib and be flush riveted to the rib. A set of nut plates would also be installed in each of these channel brackets (blue & black in the below picture) for the sea fin attachment. Then, to reinforce the front and rear tip rib attachment points to the main and rear spar, I'm going to put in short .040 angles like the one big blue area on the right of the picture (I know, graphics isn't my strong suit). Opinions please? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KJKimball(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve leaking
Scott, Email with Andair can be slow. You would be better off calling Owen and talking to him. We have used their valves in many installations and have never had a leak through issue. I did hear of one install done elsewhere that had a problem similar to what you are seeing. It seemed like a leak through the valve that was allowing the tanks to equalize in fuel level. As it turned out, the builder of that high wing airplane did not use individual vents for the 2 tanks. Instead he tied the two tanks together to a common vent and the fuel transfer was actually through the vent lines not the valve. If you have a left and right vent that are not connected, obviously, this cannot be the problem. If you do have the vents tied together or any other common tie between the tanks, you may have a bypass of the valve. On another installation in a Pitts, the main tank drain and gascolator drain were connected together to a common quick drain on the belly. Seems like a simplt idea to eliminate one drain valve. The problem is that it created a loop for the fuel around the selector valve allowing fuel to flow although at a lower flow rate through th e1/4 drain lines. The engine ran and ran good enough for run up before take off. Luckily, the pilot noticed the fuel was off and the engine was running anyway and opted to check out why instead of fly anyway possibly running low on fuel at take off power. You could test the valve and fuel system by capping the output port of the valve. Remove the line for one tank at the valve exposing that port. Select the still attached tank and see if fuel leaks out the open port. If it does, you have a valve issue. If not, you may have a system problem. Hope this helps. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax _www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/) _www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Ted, off the top of my head I would say No, not enough room for a doubler on the outside of the stab rib. The seafins are a lot thicker than .040 and they barely clear the elevator balance arms, any doublers would have to go inside - in my opinion. The angle front and back sound like a good idea. Not sure what you mean by not having the stabilizer hinge doubler - is that the stainless steel angle that MAM sent out for the hinge service bulletin? They used to send those out free - it all came with the stuff to fix the outboard wing rear spar aileron hinge bracket too. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures I'm working on my horizontal stab. I've looked at a couple of design options for making a provision for the attachment of sea fins to the h-stab tip rib. My first question is in the below picture. I'm concerned if I put a .032 doubler and then later install the actual sea fin (out of .040 ?) whether I'll have enough clearance for elevator travel. My next question involves a the fact that my main stabilizer tip rib is an older version, and I don't have the factory stabilizer hinge doubler. What I propose to do is to in stall 3 channel-type brackets that would each pick up 3 rivets on the top and bottom of the stringers--each as wide as the space between the coke-bottle indentations in my stabilizer tip rib and be flush riveted to the rib. A set of nut plates would also be installed in each of these channel brackets (blue & black in the below picture) for the sea fin attachment. Then, to reinforce the front and rear tip rib attachment points to the main and rear spar, I'm going to put in short .040 angles like the one big blue area on the right of the picture (I know, graphics isn't my strong suit). Opinions please? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Andair fuel valve leaking
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Thanks for the suggestions Kevin. I know it is not a vent issue - I do have a vent in each tank and I do have a cross vent- however the cross vent goes from the high point in the tip of one tank to the high point of the other tip (a la Cessna). Of course the valve is in a less than perfect spot to get at the lines but that is what I will have to do to check it out. Thanks again, Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KJKimball(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: Andair fuel valve leaking Scott, Email with Andair can be slow. You would be better off calling Owen and talking to him. We have used their valves in many installations and have never had a leak through issue. I did hear of one install done elsewhere that had a problem similar to what you are seeing. It seemed like a leak through the valve that was allowing the tanks to equalize in fuel level. As it turned out, the builder of that high wing airplane did not use individual vents for the 2 tanks. Instead he tied the two tanks together to a common vent and the fuel transfer was actually through the vent lines not the valve. If you have a left and right vent that are not connected, obviously, this cannot be the problem. If you do have the vents tied together or any other common tie between the tanks, you may have a bypass of the valve. On another installation in a Pitts, the main tank drain and gascolator drain were connected together to a common quick drain on the belly. Seems like a simplt idea to eliminate one drain valve. The problem is that it created a loop for the fuel around the selector valve allowing fuel to flow although at a lower flow rate through th e1/4 drain lines. The engine ran and ran good enough for run up before take off. Luckily, the pilot noticed the fuel was off and the engine was running anyway and opted to check out why instead of fly anyway possibly running low on fuel at take off power. You could test the valve and fuel system by capping the output port of the valve. Remove the line for one tank at the valve exposing that port. Select the still attached tank and see if fuel leaks out the open port. If it does, you have a valve issue. If not, you may have a system problem. Hope this helps. Sincerely, Kevin Kimball, VP Engineering Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd. Zellwood, FL 32798 407-889-3451 phone 407-889-7168 fax www.jimkimballenterprises.com <http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/> www.pittsmodel12.com <http://www.pittsmodel12.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures
Date: Sep 13, 2006
The problem is those coke-can indentations. They effectively prevent me from putting a doubler running the full length of the rib on the inside of the rib. Based on your clearance comments, and my doubler issue above, guess I better get the updated tip ribs from Murphy...along with the stab hinge doubler. Darn... have to set the h-stab aside then. What about the sturdiness of my sea fin attach channels idea? Thank you, Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:17 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures Ted, off the top of my head I would say No, not enough room for a doubler on the outside of the stab rib. The seafins are a lot thicker than .040 and they barely clear the elevator balance arms, any doublers would have to go inside - in my opinion. The angle front and back sound like a good idea. Not sure what you mean by not having the stabilizer hinge doubler - is that the stainless steel angle that MAM sent out for the hinge service bulletin? They used to send those out free - it all came with the stuff to fix the outboard wing rear spar aileron hinge bracket too. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures I'm working on my horizontal stab. I've looked at a couple of design options for making a provision for the attachment of sea fins to the h-stab tip rib. My first question is in the below picture. I'm concerned if I put a .032 doubler and then later install the actual sea fin (out of .040 ?) whether I'll have enough clearance for elevator travel. My next question involves a the fact that my main stabilizer tip rib is an older version, and I don't have the factory stabilizer hinge doubler. What I propose to do is to in stall 3 channel-type brackets that would each pick up 3 rivets on the top and bottom of the stringers--each as wide as the space between the coke-bottle indentations in my stabilizer tip rib and be flush riveted to the rib. A set of nut plates would also be installed in each of these channel brackets (blue & black in the below picture) for the sea fin attachment. Then, to reinforce the front and rear tip rib attachment points to the main and rear spar, I'm going to put in short .040 angles like the one big blue area on the right of the picture (I know, graphics isn't my strong suit). Opinions please? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures
Date: Sep 13, 2006
I have pretty much what you describe to back up the nut plates - of course un-tested as my floats are not on. Some of my doublers did cover those indentations - I just put rivets where it was flush though. _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures The problem is those coke-can indentations. They effectively prevent me from putting a doubler running the full length of the rib on the inside of the rib. Based on your clearance comments, and my doubler issue above, guess I better get the updated tip ribs from Murphy...along with the stab hinge doubler. Darn... have to set the h-stab aside then. What about the sturdiness of my sea fin attach channels idea? Thank you, Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:17 PM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures Ted, off the top of my head I would say No, not enough room for a doubler on the outside of the stab rib. The seafins are a lot thicker than .040 and they barely clear the elevator balance arms, any doublers would have to go inside - in my opinion. The angle front and back sound like a good idea. Not sure what you mean by not having the stabilizer hinge doubler - is that the stainless steel angle that MAM sent out for the hinge service bulletin? They used to send those out free - it all came with the stuff to fix the outboard wing rear spar aileron hinge bracket too. Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Moose Sea Fin design...2 questions & 2 pictures I'm working on my horizontal stab. I've looked at a couple of design options for making a provision for the attachment of sea fins to the h-stab tip rib. My first question is in the below picture. I'm concerned if I put a .032 doubler and then later install the actual sea fin (out of .040 ?) whether I'll have enough clearance for elevator travel. My next question involves a the fact that my main stabilizer tip rib is an older version, and I don't have the factory stabilizer hinge doubler. What I propose to do is to in stall 3 channel-type brackets that would each pick up 3 rivets on the top and bottom of the stringers--each as wide as the space between the coke-bottle indentations in my stabilizer tip rib and be flush riveted to the rib. A set of nut plates would also be installed in each of these channel brackets (blue & black in the below picture) for the sea fin attachment. Then, to reinforce the front and rear tip rib attachment points to the main and rear spar, I'm going to put in short .040 angles like the one big blue area on the right of the picture (I know, graphics isn't my strong suit). Opinions please? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Aircraft Spruce orders & new EAA visa card
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Some of you may have seen that EAA has been advertising a new VISA card where one supposedly gets 10% off on Aircraft Spruce orders (except on avionics). I got the card and ordered some stuff this a.m.. Turns out that the discount with ACS is "...up to 10% off." I just talked to ACS customer service since I only got 5% off on the items I ordered. Bottom line is that each item's discount is different--and unknown--until after you actually submit the order. You don't know the final, discounted (if at all) price until you receive your order confirmation email. FWIW... Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Rivnut dimples for access covers
Date: Oct 02, 2006
Below are two pictures of access covers that I have where they have been dimpled for rivnuts. I've looked all over the web and can't find any tool that creates these large dimples for rivnuts. Has anyone on the list seen such a tool to create these rivnut dimples or is this some totally custom deal that someone made? Thanks in advance... Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Rivnut dimples for access covers
Date: Oct 02, 2006
Ted, are those dimples "up" (is that showing the "top" of the cover?) so that they can sit over the protruding rivnut? Maybe just a large dimple die set http://www.denunzioracing.com/shop/denunzio/dimpledies.html if they are bigger than the more standard aircraft ones http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/dimplekit.php Those are pricy - these are the cheapo ones (which would be hard to pull in that thick cover plate) but probably too small anyway. http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=5102D-1%2f8 <http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=5102D-1%2f8&Return Page=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=2> &ReturnPage=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=2 Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Rivnut dimples for access covers Below are two pictures of access covers that I have where they have been dimpled for rivnuts. I've looked all over the web and can't find any tool that creates these large dimples for rivnuts. Has anyone on the list seen such a tool to create these rivnut dimples or is this some totally custom deal that someone made? Thanks in advance... Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Rivnut dimples for access covers
Date: Oct 02, 2006
Yes, with these dimples the access covers sit totally flat. Had to be some squeezer set that someone custom made I guess. I'm surprised that there isn't some common "aircraft" set out there. Seems like a great idea that would be relatively easy to do. I had some friends suggest just drilling a recess in a block of flat steel then use that recess to hit the plate with a hammer and punch. Might work but prob not as I think the whole plate would just tend to bounce meaning one wouldn't get a clean dimple. Another friend said just put the plate on a large washer and hit it the same way. I suspect it too would be a poor result. One can purchase a flange tool to have the center section of the plate flush with the rivnut(s) and the very edge of the plate flanged to be flush with the surface (e.g. wing, tail, whatever) as I'm told Cessna does. I don't like that approach. Maybe I can talk a buddy of mine into machining me a custom dimple set for the squeezer I have. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out too. Ted _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Aldrich Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:37 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: Rivnut dimples for access covers Ted, are those dimples "up" (is that showing the "top" of the cover?) so that they can sit over the protruding rivnut? Maybe just a large dimple die set http://www.denunzioracing.com/shop/denunzio/dimpledies.html if they are bigger than the more standard aircraft ones http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/dimplekit.php Those are pricy - these are the cheapo ones (which would be hard to pull in that thick cover plate) but probably too small anyway. http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=5102D-1%2f8 <http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=5102D-1%2f8&Return Page=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=2> &ReturnPage=/shop/flyer.aspx?PageNo=2 Scott _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Waltman Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Rivnut dimples for access covers Below are two pictures of access covers that I have where they have been dimpled for rivnuts. I've looked all over the web and can't find any tool that creates these large dimples for rivnuts. Has anyone on the list seen such a tool to create these rivnut dimples or is this some totally custom deal that someone made? Thanks in advance... Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Rivet order...
Date: Oct 12, 2006
Here's what I ordered today from Crawford Products (http://www.crawfordproducts.com/avex.htm#lowprofile): 1661-0410 1,000 $15.90 1661-0414 1,000 $17.00 1661-0512 1,000 $23.00 1682-0415 500 $11.50 1661-0613 200 $4.08 1661-0619 200 $4.80 These are all the low-profile head as listed in the Avdel catalog. I talked to the sales person, who was looking at his new Avdel catalog as we spoke; he did -- not -- show any dome head rivet in the latest catalog. When I receive the rivets next week I'll post my rivet quality impressions vs the ones that I have from Murphy. The above prices are almost 1/2 the quoted price from Hanson Rivet Supply. The price for the 3/16" rivet, 1661-0613 for qty of 200 from Aircraft Spruce is $14.40! I don't know how Crawford is selling the rivets for such a low (relative) price. Maybe when I get them I'll be thrilled; maybe I'll be screwed. At any rate, I'll let the list know what I find. Thanks again for those of you that provided input on this issue. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)i1ci.com>
Subject: Received my rivet order
Date: Oct 18, 2006
Good news, the rivets I received from Crawford Products are exactly the same dimensions as those I originally received from Murphy Aircraft. Their prices seem to be much, much better than any other vendor that I called or found on-line (including ACS). Xref list: RV-1410......1661-1410 RV-1414......1661-0414 RV-4412.CSK..1682-0412 RV-1512......1661-0512 RV-1613......1661-0613 RV-1619......1661-0619 Link to Avex specs at Crawford Products: http://www.crawfordproducts.com/avex.htm#lowprofile Prices: 1661-0410 1,000 $15.90 1661-0414 1,000 $17.00 1661-0512 1,000 $23.00 1682-0415 500 $11.50 1661-0613 200 $4.08 1661-0619 200 $4.80 Shipping from Ohio to Colorado added $9.22 to the overall order. Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Comcast Was Blocking Matronics Email Lists...
Dear Listers (Specifically Comcast Listers), For about the last two days, Comcast was blocking incoming email from the Matronics Email Lists because their spam filters thought the mail was spam. I was that people on Comcast are receiving List messages again. If you are a Comcast user, you might want to email them and express your displeasure with their Spam blocking policy, particularly as it relates to "matronics.com". Sorry for the hassle... Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Email List Fund Raiser - November!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through these sole Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matornics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matornics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. Each message will generally highlight a particular feature or benefit of the Matronics Lists or detail a new feature or service that was added this year. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises aka Kitlog Pro (http://www.kitlog.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Paul, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: https://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really do feel like family. Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum?
Hello Listers, One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition of a new and full function Forum Web Site at: http://forums.matronics.com The best part of these new Forums is that they are tied directly to the Classic email distribution Lists! That also means that posts go in both directions. If you post a message on the Forum web site, it will be cross posted to the respective Email List. And, if you post a message to a particular Email List, it will be cross posted to the same respective forum on the Forum site! So, no matter what your content viewing pleasure is - either direct email distribution or web-based GUI interface, you can have it at the Matronics Email Lists! Won't you make a Contribution to support these Lists? It is your SOLE Contributions that make their continued operation and upgrade possible! The Contribution site is Fast, Easy, and Secure. Please surf over and make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wow, Cool! New List Feature... [Please Read]
Dear Listers, By popular suggestion, I've written a substantial new code module for the Matronics Email Lists system. Here's how it works... During each November, I send out quite a few PBS-like "Please make a Contribution to support your List" emails. Wouldn't it be cool if, once a member made a Contribution, they didn't have to receive my support pleas anymore for the rest of that year? Well, that's exactly what I've written! Following this posting, anyone that makes a List Contribution in 2006 will no longer receive my Contribution Pleas for the rest of the year! The best part is this not only applies to the Realtime distribution, but also the Digest distribution! For those that have made a Contribution, the Daily Digest email-version will be invisibly stripped of my requests as well! (Note that my requests will still be present in the online versions of the Digests, List Browse, and on the Forum site.) For those submitting their Contribution by personal Check, please be sure to include your email address along with your Check as this is what is used to determine eligibility. So, in a nutshell, here's how it works: Make a Contribution = No more "Please Make a Contribution" messages! How sweet is that? If that's not a great reason to jump on the Matronics Email List Contribution site and make your donation today, I don't know what is! Don't forget that there are some totally awesome free gifts to be had along with your List Contribution this year!! Don't wait a minute longer to support your Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your Support!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution
Yet! :-) If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation...
Dear Listers, A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday. I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics List subscription. If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address instead of the List email. I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the same. Otherwise, everything works great. If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually update the records so that things will work as advertised. Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-) To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administration ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wiki...
Dear Listers, I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition: A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration. This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site, or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia. Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not: structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition. The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited. There are several things that happen as a result: 1. The person gets his or her question answered; 2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question; 3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed at seeing the same things over and over and over and ... So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered. You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful. So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki! It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately. It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence and structure. But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then! So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying, maintaining, and understanding our airplanes. But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is, he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that. And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page. The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want to. So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people and the more information they will put here for YOU to use. Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place): http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS [Please Read]
Dear Listers, I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year. I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they are to them. I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do, won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch* feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how it works.) Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!! -Owen B I love The Matronics... -Robeto B My wife has her soaps & I've got my lists! -Hal B These lists are, indeed, the lifeline of our hobby. -Bob R The best source of information for my a/c. -Tony C The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning. -Herbert H You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are still an after-the-fact resource. -Ben B ..an excellent site. -Ashley M The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith CH 701 project!! -Brian U I appreciate the list being here for me. -Geoff H ..a great service. -William C The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility. -David M Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project. -Thomas S ..a great service. -Robert W The Pietenpol list is a great resource. -Benjamin W The Yak-list is Awesome! -James S ..great service. -Robert S The features you have implemented recently have you poised to knock out yahoo groups... -Danny D I like how your forum looks/works and the list service... -Ken E ..great service. -David P Very useful web site. -Wayne E ..a very valuable service. -Chris D Great sites... -Randall R I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it. -Wayne E Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark... -Fergus K The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the donation... -Lee P ..great service! -Christopher D I really don't think I could be building my plane without the wisdom I find on this list. -William G It really makes building a pleasure. -James P ..great service. -Doug W I'm getting near the end of my build (Europa tri XS) don't think I could have done it with out the help of the forum. -Stanislaus S Marvelous service. Couldn't have done it without you. -Jim G Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others... -Michael S ..good service. -Derek L The list is responsible for helping me complete this project and educating me in the process. -Jeff D Definitely worth the donation. -Ron L ..great service to the aviation community. -Tony P I have been flying my plane for 5 years (RV-6) but I still get valuable information from this service. -Don N A very helpful site. -Roland S It's a great community to be part of. -David L Great sites. -John C A great place to find and share not only information but to meet people across the country and make lasting relationships. -Uncle Craig Great facility. -Peter H Its a great source of information! -Michael W Great improvements to the List... -Edward A Great service!!! -Rich D ..great resource! -William C ..excellent lists! -Michael S Couldn't have built my RV4 without the list. -Warren M ..a great service... -James N I would not have missed [the list] for anything during the building of my Europa. -Svein J ..another great year. -Robert D ..this [is an] essential builder's resource. -David A ..excellent service. -Gregory B I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year and look forward to it every day! -Smith M ..a great communication tool... -Jon M Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on your great list! -Lothar K ..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto place for my RV questions. -Mike D ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Value...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Why? [Please Read]
Dear Listers, Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience over the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year, accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_! I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2006
From: Loray <loray(at)pbgroup.com.ph>
Subject: daily reminder to contribute
Hi Matt: I'm on the Murphy Moose list because, as soon as I can sell my C-185 and Maule, I hope to build a Moose. But until I can move these airplanes, I'm subscribing to this list simply to listen and learn from others. I really do not have anything meaningful to contribute yet. I applaud your efforts to kickstart discussions. But, at least for my circumstances, the daily reminder in my email is a bit annoying. I can put up with it, but I just wanted to give you some feedback that it is a bit annoying. Thanks for all your doing. Warm regards, Loray Greiner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: More Great List Comments - Please Make A Contribution!
Dear Listers, There's a little less than one week left for this year's List Fund Raiser. I thought it would a great time to share a few more of the great comments I've been receiving from Contributors regarding what the Lists mean to them. There are some particularly poignant ones in this batch and I encourage you to have a look at some of them. Don't forget that once you make your Contribution, the Contribution Squelch kicks in and you won't receive any future messages from me regarding the Fund Raiser this year! This holds true for the Realtime and Digest distributions and now also the HTML and TXT links included with the Digest! (Note that for technical reasons, if someone replies to one of my contribution messages, the Squelch will _not_ be activated, and you will still receive it. Contribution messages will also still be found on the Forums site and the List Browse). Please make your Contribution today to support these List services! Pick up a great Gift too! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ============================= WLAS #2 ============================ Tackling my project without the List would be like building on a deserted island. The List has made me part of a learning (and laughing) community. -Larry W Thank you for providing such a fantastic resource for us Kolbers. I'm very happy to contribute towards keeping such a wonderful resource available. -Geoff T ..you do a great service for the flying community by providing this service. -John L ..solidly administered. -James C A great source of information. -Ralph S The Lists have likely saved a numbers of lives... -James F ..exceptional user service. -Larry W Better than a magazine! -Aaron G Thanks to your List I will be able to finish and fly my project. Without the help of the great people on your List I doubt it would have happened. -Ed G I learn something on a too regular basis thanks to these lists! -Ralph C ..valuable service. -John F ..a well administered service. -Stewart C Great forum! -Ronald C A great service! -Andy H Been reading the lists since my first RV in 1999. Good work and as necessary to me as a rivet. -Albert G The lists are a great help. -Gary S This resource has been critical to my building success so far. -Timothy F Great system and support! -Richard P Very helpful in the building my CH 701. -Ralph S Another year of entertainment and pleasure! -Larry B A great resource for all of us. -Larry W Another year of great service! Once again, the information is worth more than I can ever contribute. Thank you also for the "community" that the List fosters. I cannot tell you the number of times that seeing an friend's name come up has caused so many awesome memories to come flooding back - along with the eager desire to gather with these great guys again. I love hearing the beginner's enthusiasm, the builder's progress, and the flyer's success... -Robert B Our list has great info and I love reading the "Flame Posts! " -Stephen M Great service! -James B Excellent source of information. -David P You provide a very valuable service to the aviation community. -David H The RV related lists have been a tremendous help in the construction of my RV-7... -Norman R Awesome list!! -John E Great bunch of guys and very knowledgeable! -Herbert G Thank you for making it so easy to stay in touch with my fellow RV-10 builders. -David J I love the list and have been a reader for a long time. -James V Continues to be a great service! -George A Awesome List server. -Deke M Many of us would never finish our airplanes without [the List]. With it, I'm getting close! -Ronald C An excellent source of both information and inspiration! -William R Forums and format are easy to use. -Jack B Great help with my kit building. -Ralph H Super service. -Richard N Still loving it. -Jared S You have a fantastic web! -Harvey R ..a great service. -James M Glad you are there... -David A I get some great information on your list. -John P Fantastic service. Couldn't have made it as far as I have without it. -Stephen T A great learning experience with my RV-6A. -Ron B Great resources! -Jason H Well done. Very valuable. -Jeffrey D Great resource for the experimental aircraft community. -Chris H This List has been one of the most helpful tools in building my RV-10, since I build alone, and do not have any help readily available. Without the List, I could not have embarked on building my RV-10. -Jim H You run a great list there. -James H Really like the Kolb List. -Don W ============================= WLAS #2 ============================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're
Listed! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, the List seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all? :-) Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by droping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please
Read] Dear Listers, Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web development and CGI design during this period. I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few. For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet connection with full static addressing. The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone! I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition of the second rack: http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister. But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you... and YOU! To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running! Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Well, its November 30th and that means three things... 1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...) 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-) If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is on it! :-) Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this weekend. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "loray(at)compuserve.com" <loray(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2007
Subject: C-185 amphib to trade for Moose project
Hi everyone: I would like to trade my 1973 Cessna 185F on amphib floats for a Moose project. The aircraft is in very good condition, but is unfortunately a bit too small for my expanding family. If you, or anyone you know is interested, you can see some pictures and specs in the 'for sale' section of http://metalcrafters.ph If you have any interest or questions, you can either contact Mark at Metalcrafters, or me directly on loray(at)csi.com Thanks, Loray Greiner P.S. In addition to the C-185, I also have a Maule M4-210C that could be part of a trade. It has 1400 hours total time on the airframe, and only 11 hours since a complete rebuild, including new factory reman IO-360-D (210 hp continuous). Everything on the aircraft is new, including all instruments and avionics (KX-155 nav/com w/ VOR, Narco AT165 w/encoder, stereo intercom, JPI 800 engine monitor. Fresh prop, prop governer, new wheels, brakes, interior, fabric, prop, electrical system. Plexiglass doors, up-gross kit, Airwolf oil filter, plus many more extra touches. All SBs, SLs, ADs complied with. Complete and very detailed logs. N-registered with fresh annual. Maintained by an FAA IA A&P. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Yokes
Date: Apr 18, 2007
Someone is asking me if I know of anyone that made a conversion from the sticks to yokes on the Moose. I know someone was. Anyone know anything? THX Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 18, 2007
From: Paul Echlin <pechlin(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Yokes
Nope, not me, but I'd be curious to see it! Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Aldrich To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:28 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Yokes Someone is asking me if I know of anyone that made a conversion from the sticks to yokes on the Moose. I know someone was. Anyone know anything? THX Scott Moose 174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Moose down?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Hi all, An acquaintence on another list mentioned that Doug Beechel's Moose went down on the way home from Sun 'n' Fun taking his life and his wife's as well. He said he didn't know any details, and he hasn't heard any moreand is anxious to know what happened. He says, "Doug had loads of taildragger time in a Pacer and lots of hours. The Moose appeared to be extremely well constructed (Doug loved the air horn he mounted between the gear legs!). He always had smoked trout on hand for the evening beer fests, and other goodies. Man, I for one will sure miss them at Blakesburg." http://www.goflyamoose.com/Completion%20pages/doug%20beechel.shtm I saw his plane at OSH last year. Really nice aircraft. If anyone hears any details of the accident, please post any info. Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109243#109243 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Moose down?
From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens(at)cnw.com>
Date: Apr 25, 2007
Looks like there's some additional information here: http://www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070423/NEWS01/704230309 Tragic loss. ~Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109246#109246 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OshKosh
From: "sr271" <dlipscomb(at)exacteng.com>
Date: Jul 14, 2007
Anybody taking flying a Moose to Oshkosh? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123769#123769 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 2007
From: Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OshKosh
Possibly. Eddie Moran N320VT. SR228. sr271 wrote: Anybody taking flying a Moose to Oshkosh? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123769#123769 --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 2007
From: bob tripp <btripp(at)interisland.net>
Subject: Re: OshKosh
It didn't come thru on my computer. Bob At 08:03 AM 07/14/2007, you wrote: > >Shape Yahoo! in your own image. ><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7>Join >our Network Research Panel today! > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2007
From: bob tripp <btripp(at)interisland.net>
Subject: M-14 AUTO FUEL
Is it possible to run the M14 on auto fuel? I've heard rumors that it is possible, but I can't find anything in print on it. If it is possible, what modifications have to be made to the engine? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Aldrich" <s-aldrich(at)comcast.net>
Subject: M-14 AUTO FUEL
Date: Aug 18, 2007
I know of 5 or 6 Moose running on auto fuel and a few of the YAK guys too. You won't find any 'official' information in print - only opinions. http://www.goflyamoose.com/main_pages/m14faq.shtm#m14faq3 No modifications required. Just no alcohol like all the actual STC's. Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob tripp Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: M-14 AUTO FUEL Is it possible to run the M14 on auto fuel? I've heard rumors that it is possible, but I can't find anything in print on it. If it is possible, what modifications have to be made to the engine? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2007
From: Cliff Coy <cliff(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: M-14 AUTO FUEL
It is possible to run the M-14P on Autofuel with some caveats. Remember the whole point of octane rating is to suppress detonation and pre-ignition. As compression rating increases, the risk of detonation and pre-ignition increases. Therefore in high compression engines or engines which increase the manifold pressure (supercharged and turbocharged engines) a higher octane rating is required. Motorstar (the current engine manufacturer) recommends an MON octane rating of no less than 91. Automotive gasoline is rated by the RON+MON/2 method. Aviation gasoline is rated by rich operating mixture/ lean operating mixture (ie. 100/130) Therefore I don't recommend using an automotive fuel of less than 94 octane. As stated previously, do not use auto fuel which contains alcohol..for a number reasons. Most notably, it will attack the seals and diaphragms in the fuel system. Finally, I would recommend that if autofuel is used, that it's mixed with Avgas because: 1) The Avgas will raise the octane rating. 2) Avgas is very stable and will not degrade like autofuel. Hope this helps! Cheers, Cliff Coy Gesoco Industries bob tripp wrote: > > > > Is it possible to run the M14 on auto fuel? I've heard rumors that it > is possible, but I can't find anything in print on it. If it is > possible, what modifications have to be made to the engine? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 08, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Realtime Spell Checker Added To Matronics Forums!
Dear Listers, Today 9/8/2007 I have added a new real-time spell checker function to all of the BBS Forums at Matronics. When you reply or create a new message on the Forums, you will notice that misspelled words will be high-lighted in yellow. If you left-click on the word, you will be prompted with a drop-down list of suggested spellings. http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy! Matt Dralle Matornics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Ripley" <psiequipment(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: update
Date: Oct 13, 2007
New photos of the Turbine Moose construction added at www.ripleyair.com. First engine run today, might fly in October. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2007
From: Gunter niederbacher <gniederbacher(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/28/07
please remove me from the list __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Ripley" <psiequipment(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: T-Moose
Date: Oct 29, 2007
The T-Moose is nearly ready to fly. Pictures in the photo gallery at www.ripleyair.com Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month!
Dear Listers, You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example: The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising! But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and every time you read an email message or browse the their web site. Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment, I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be possible! During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few days and I ask for your patience and understanding during the month throughout these regular messages. Think of them as PBS' Pledge Breaks... :-) To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser! There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however, once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund Raiser for the rest of the month. For Contributions by check, the squelch will take effect once the check is received. There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including: Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to offer and are generously supporting the Matronics List Fund Raiser. You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. From the Contribution site, you can select any one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount. The Contribution page is pretty loooonnnnng this year in order to list great selection of great gifts available so be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom of the web page to see everything that's available! Please make a List Support Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions truely keep this operation afloat! Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. I've got a bunch of really nice incentive gifts this year. There's really something for everyone! Please make a Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Listers Are Saying...
November is Matronics List Fund Raiser month and a number people been sending some really nice comments regarding the Lists. I thought I'd share a few below. The Lists are completely supported by your Contributions. All of the bills for new hardware, connectivity, and electricity are paid by the generous support of the List members. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of the List and Forums: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ================= What Listers Are Saying ================ Flying and building is much safer with this List!! Robert D. Thanks for having and maintaining such a great resource to all of us builders and flyers. Wayne E. Love the fact that you haven't caved to advertising! Peter J. ..a great resource!! Robert C. Not building at the moment, but the Lists keeps me right up to date with what's going on. Chris D. The web forum has been running great. James O. I enjoy this [List] site very much... Paul C. This is a great list! Albert G. ..a valuable resource! Roger C. I am deployed to Pakistan right now, and being able to go on-line and keep up with the aircraft discussions helps keep the aircraft building dream alive in my mind! Gregory C. ..fantastic service! Roger M. ..clearly a work of passion! Mike C. It is a great service to us! Kevin C. The list is a wonderful resource... Ralph O. [The Lists] have been the single greatest resource in building my RV-9A and now my RV-10. Albert G. ..a valuable and always improving service. Dick S. STILL THE BEST BARGAIN AROUND!! Owen B. ..such a valuable tool. Jon M. [The Lists] have been an invaluable resource for me as a Zenith homebuilder. David G. The opportunity to meet (on line at least) many other interesting builders and to make some new friends is truly appreciated. Albert G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution
Yet! :-) Dear Listers, If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! Implemented for the first time last year, the Matronics system selectively sends out the Contribution messages to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! I wanted to implement something like this for a number of years, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally last year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. I run ALL of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Please note the following regarding the selective posting system. There are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. These situations include if someone replies to one of the messages, or when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. Since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Post Mortem - Matronics List Pummeled By Spam...
Dear Listers, Over a 3-day period, Thursday 11/8 though Saturday 11/10, the Matronics Lists were pummeled with over 450,000 spam emails causing posting delays and a few duplicate messages. Yeah, I really said nearly half a million spams! The good news is that I don't believe a single one of them actually made it to the Lists thanks to the aggressive List filtering code and the Barracuda spam filter. The bad news was that it caused quite a back log of email messages starting Friday and continuing until late Saturday when I noticed that delivery seemed a bit sluggish. By about 11pm on Saturday night, I had managed to get the backlog cleared out of the spam filter by temporarily adjusting some of the filtering. A check of the queues this morning, and everything looks like its working great and there are no incoming filtering delays and spam levels appear to be back to "normal". There were a number of people asking what was going on, so I thought that I'd send out a follow up post mortem on the event... November is the annual List Fund Raiser. Your contribution directly enables me to buy systems like the Barracuda spam filter that keep the List free of that garbage. Please make a contribution to support your Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List of Contributors
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Lassetter" <rblassett(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Construction/Restoration
Date: Nov 14, 2007
Hello all, I would like to offer my aircraft construction/restoration services to the group. I have a 40' X 60' hangar in NE Georgia and have a lifetime of experience with various aircraft. I can construct large projects for $15.00 per hour with first-class workmanship. Please email me directly or give me a call. Russ Lassetter 202 Aviation Blvd. Cleveland, GA 30528 706-348-7514 rblassett(at)alltel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser...
Dear Listers, Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience over the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. More recently, I have enabled limited posting of a number of file formats including pictures and PDFs. Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. And added just a couple of years ago is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files (http://forums.matronics.com ). Additionally, added recently is the List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share ( http://wiki.matronics.com ). I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 34,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List Email system forwarded well over 77,000 postings last year, accounting for an unbelievable 33,000,000 (yes, that's 33 MILLION) email messages delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_! I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers, Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed upon us. Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your kind consideration, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Comments
Dear Listers, Below are a few more of the nice comments Listers have been making along with their Contributions in support of the Lists this year. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. Remember, there is _no advertising budget_ to keep these Lists funded. It is solely through your generosity that they continue. Please make a Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ------------------------------What Listers Are Saying------------------------------ The list has been invaluable in the building of my Zenith CH701. George R Thanks for keeping the lists a non-commercial venue for us to gather and share knowledge. Neal G What a fantastic resource! Ralph C It's a pretty cheep troubleshooting tool with and unlimited resource of personal knowledge. Bruce G A full house of Info & Ideas... Ellery B I really enjoy the Piet list. Steven D The Lists are an indispensable resource for those of us building OBAM aircraft. Bret S ..a great service. Frank D ..all in all it is a great resource if you ask specific questions. Richard S Your list has really helped me in my first build. Michael W Always a pleasure to support this great resource... Richard W I enjoy the lists very much, they are very beneficial. Bob L Great place to chat with other builders and Flyers. Ellery B Your lists are a great service to builders and owners! Richard D A real good place for someone that is starting to get interested into flying without investing any money at first. Ellery B The list has been an great help to my building process. David B I'm close to finishing my Zenith 601 thanks to you and the Zenith List. Jeff D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
Dec 1! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, these Lists seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all? Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt
Dralle? Dear Listers, Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system development as well. I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few. For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet connection with full static addressing. The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone! I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition of the second rack: http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister. But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you... and YOU! To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running! Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wow! A Ton of Comments!
Dear Listers, I've been getting a ton of great comments from Listers along with their List Support Contributions lately! I've shared a bunch more below. Please read over some of them and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums. There are just a couple more days left before the official end of this year's Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation of these services. There are still lots of awesome gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution. http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ----------- What Listers Are Saying About The Lists ----------- In the big picture, you are most certainly saving lives. The fact that you do it at a very good level of service, quality, and simplicity is just icing on the cake. We all owe you a debt of gratitude. Bruce M Can't go a single day without reading my lists. Even when I am overseas. Terry W Best list ever. No comparison. Johann J I get the digest for the two lists I subscribe to each morning -- they go great with my coffee! I can't tell you how much I've learned from this great service... Mark S ..great lists, best on the Net! Robert S It is very nice to enjoy a SPAM free list. Ken L You run a great list. Makes a builder feel like there's lots of help out there for the asking, and it's appreciated. Steve T The list is a very valuable resource. Thomas S You run a good list. James G Thanks for a great forum. Jimmy Y Thanks for a well-maintained list(s). Michael M Great job! Worth every penny! Stephen T Helps me learn and think about issues I didn't know I didn't know. Martin H I find the list very useful... Robert F What you do provides me with daily contact with a passion of my life, aviation. Wendell M ..the list it is very valuable information. Dwayne H ..a great service to homebuilders. Andrew H I have learned quite a lot from reading the Forums. I have been reading at the forum pages and I like the way it works. Ron L [The List] makes a builder feel like there's lots of help out there for the asking, and it's appreciated. Steve T The list service many purposes, not the least of which is motivation to join my fellow RVer in completing my project and getting in the air. John S Thanks for running a great site. Its simplicity is its greatness. Don't know how I would have been successful without it. Timothy F ..terrific service to experimental and general aviation. James F You have a well run operation. I am happy to support what you do. Mark S A wonderful service to the GA community. David M Great list - let's keep it ad-free! Ben C They have been of great help, learning and friendship for all the members Worldwide. Great job of yours, a little idea that grew really big and wonderful. Gary G ..a thoroughly enjoyable and informative List. John W A GREAT LEARNING TOOL!! Dwayne Y This is a very well-run list and it is a valuable resource for the Pietenpol enthusiast. Graham H Thanks for running this great site - helps those of us on the east of the pond keep in touch. Malcolm H Thanks for the major contribution to my continuing education program. Oldbob S I'm just getting started in the building process & find Matronics to be the most valuable site. Scott D Without the information and encouragement from the listers my project would have been sitting in the corner of my shop collecting dust long ago. Now it's almost ready for final assemble and covering. Edward G Great List. No Ads, just RV-10 builders. Keep it going. Rick E Wonderful source of info for building & flying... Graham H The Yak-list is a superb single source to get answers to questions on the operation of these aircraft. Craig W This list is valuable to everyone and your hard work is very much appreciated. Jim S ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two Days Left...
Dear Listers, There are just a couple days left for this year's List Fund Raiser. Over all, participation has been good, but things have been pretty slow this week for some reason. If you've been putting off making your Contribution until the last minute, this is it! The last minute, that is... :-) Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions during this Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my 44th birthday for one, but I'm trying to forget about that... But, it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been drooling over one of the really sweet free gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution, but just keep putting it off, then now is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! Rather than the guy that, er, ah, forgot (or whatever)... :-) I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone will feel the same. The List Contribution page is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Copied from M14 List (M14 on e bay)
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2007
It's back for a 3rd time, not much bidding this time. Wonder what the problem is. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yak-Sukhoi-Murphy-Moose-M-14P-New-Radial-engine-prop_W0QQitemZ120194982439QQihZ002QQcategoryZ63679QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem This also is on e bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-YAK-52W-LATE-MODEL-CHEAP-ACROBATIC-WARBIRD_W0QQitemZ130181561740QQihZ003QQcategoryZ63677QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151305#151305 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Copied from M14 List (M14 on e bay)
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2007
This was posted on the Yak list > jetjockey > > > > Joined: 12 Dec 2006 > Posts: 1 > Location: Granbury, Texas > Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Copied from M14 List (M14 on e bay) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > A word of caution on the guy selling the M-14. I bid and was the high bidder on two previous auctions that he had on this same engine. He would not respond to my emails after the auction ended either time. Now he is apparently saying that I didn't pay on the first auction (I didn't meet the reserve.) However, I did attempt to contact him to see how much more he wanted. He would not reply or return my phone calls. He also claims his second auction got hijacked. This is not true, at least from my perspective. The auction terminated normally with me as the high bidder. > > He may be legit but I would be very wary about dealing with him. > > Ray Stallings > > -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151647#151647 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: M-14P SAE Flange nose case
Date: Jan 24, 2008
From: "Dee Conger" <dee(at)innoviveinc.com>
Hi - I recently purchased a new M-14PF engine that came with the SAE prop flange - this engine has less than 100 hours and was used on a Helio Courier, so no aerobatics. I'm putting this engine on one of my Yaks, and thus would prefer the normal Russian prop flange. Does anyone out there have a new or near new nose section with Russian prop flange they would like to trade for the SAE flange nose case? Thanks, Dee 858.243.4354 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Prvpilot1(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 2008
Subject: questions
1: Where did people get the rudder pedals from? 2: For fuel injected engines, is a header tank required? If so, will dual tanks, one in each sidewall work? Where would I get those tanks? 3: Anyone have a pattern for upholstery for the seats? **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: M14PF Electric start on e bay
From: "N395V" <Bearcat(at)bearcataviation.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2008
M14PF 400HP electric Start for sale on e bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M14PF-400-HP-electric-start-Radial-Engine-83hrs-TT_W0QQitemZ230226868438QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230226868438 -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166463#166463 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup!
Dear Listers, I've added two new Email Lists to the Matronics List and Forum lineup today. These include the Rans-List and RV12-List. Please surf over to the Matronics List Subscription page and sign up for these new Lists if they are of interest to you: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Full support on the Forums, List Browse, Archives, etc. is available. Rans-List: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rans-List RV12-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV12-List Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Four New Email Lists At Matronics!!
Dear Listers, I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the following categories: Citabria-List Citabria, Decathlon, Scout, and Champ Zenith601-List Zenair Zodiac CH 601 Zenith640-List Zenair Zodiac CH 640 Zenith701801-List Zenair STOL CH 701 and CH 801 All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives, Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...: Citabria: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?citabria-list Zenith601: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list Zenith640: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list Zenith701801: http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here: http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-) Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2008
From: moosesr213-aero(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-Air cleaner
I am Building a Murphy Moose with an M14P engine and need a recommendation for installing an air cleaner.=0A-=0ACan anyone spec out the proper air c leaner to be used with the M14P?=0A-=0AThanks for you help.=0A-=0ASteve H=0AMoose 213 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Murphy Moose flying in cold weather
From: "Dangermhb" <shaneryan(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Jun 17, 2008
What have you done to your moose with the M-14 to fly in cold weather, what kind of weather fronts do you use. Thanks, -------- Shane Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188388#188388 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2008
From: culpspecial(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response
I am away from a computer until Sunday, September 14. I will respond to your email at that time. Thank you, Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2008
From: "doug sapp" <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/17/08
I have several M14B engines for sale, these are 0 time, new old stock engines with logs. Contact me off list @ 509-826-4610 if you have an interest. Best, Doug Sapp On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 11:56 PM, MurphyMoose-List Digest Server < murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri 10/17/08: 0 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/17/08
Date: Oct 19, 2008
We have made conversions of the M14B to M14P engines. The biggest problem using the M14B is NOT aerobatic and has no inverted capability. It is OK for a Moose, but not for other applications. To use it for a Moose as is you will have to come up with a propeller with the proper splined hub. Contact us off list if you need further info. We also have a almost new 400 hp M14PF-XEDK with both air and electric start. It had a prop strike at 60 hrs and went back to the factory for rebuild. It is now available for about 70% of a new engine. If interested again contact off list. Regards, George Coy george.coy(at)gmail.com _____ From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Re: MurphyMoose-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 10/17/08 I have several M14B engines for sale, these are 0 time, new old stock engines with logs. Contact me off list @ 509-826-4610 if you have an interest. Best, Doug Sapp On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 11:56 PM, MurphyMoose-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete MurphyMoose-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the MurphyMoose-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte r 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose> &View=html&Chapter 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose> &View=txt&Chapter 08-10-17&Archive=MurphyMoose =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- MurphyMoose-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/17/08: 0 ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: BOB TRIPP <btripp(at)interisland.net>
Subject: elevator balance
We are in the final stages of assembling our MYSTERIOUS MOOSE at a hangar in Arlington Airport. Most of the problems we have encountered we have been able to resolve in one manner or another. However, here is one which seems to be a puzzle. We put our elevator on a bench to do a balance test and found that the elevator was balanced aft the hinge line to the point that it would require 6 1/2 to 7 pounds of additional weight at the forward edge of the Ballance horn to create a balanced state. Normally, it is desired to have neutral to a slight forward balance state. When we queried Murphy, they said that this was the design point in all the Murphy Moose kits. So now, our question is-- did any of you check your balance point before you installed the elevator, and if so, what was your balance condition? When we checked back against the original elevator installation drawings, we realized that our weights are installed in a somewhat different location than what's called out in the drawings. If anyone out there also has the weights in their possession before they've been installed, would you weigh them for us and also take a picture of their configuration. It may be that this is not a problem, if it's true that all of airplanes have been built and flown in this balance state. However, from the standpoint of flutter, this is a very undesirable configuration. This is our concern, that somehow we have a unique or unusual situation. We will be consulting with Murphy on this, but so far have not received much useful information. Blue skies and all the best, Bob Tripp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Cattoni" <cattoni(at)glastar.ca>
Subject: elevator balance
Date: Oct 21, 2008
Hi Bob, My friend and I rare also building a Moose. Here in Kelowna BC Canada. We do have the exact situation as you encountering, regarding the balance weight of the elevator. So far we could not figure out what to do. It would be very helpful, if you would let us know, if you come to a resolution of this problem. As you know, communication with Murphy is not the easiest thing now a days. Thank you for posting. And thanks in advance for keeping us posted. Best Regards, Peter Cattoni -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BOB TRIPP Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:46 AM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: elevator balance We are in the final stages of assembling our MYSTERIOUS MOOSE at a hangar in Arlington Airport. Most of the problems we have encountered we have been able to resolve in one manner or another. However, here is one which seems to be a puzzle. We put our elevator on a bench to do a balance test and found that the elevator was balanced aft the hinge line to the point that it would require 6 1/2 to 7 pounds of additional weight at the forward edge of the Ballance horn to create a balanced state. Normally, it is desired to have neutral to a slight forward balance state. When we queried Murphy, they said that this was the design point in all the Murphy Moose kits. So now, our question is-- did any of you check your balance point before you installed the elevator, and if so, what was your balance condition? When we checked back against the original elevator installation drawings, we realized that our weights are installed in a somewhat different location than what's called out in the drawings. If anyone out there also has the weights in their possession before they've been installed, would you weigh them for us and also take a picture of their configuration. It may be that this is not a problem, if it's true that all of airplanes have been built and flown in this balance state. However, from the standpoint of flutter, this is a very undesirable configuration. This is our concern, that somehow we have a unique or unusual situation. We will be consulting with Murphy on this, but so far have not received much useful information. Blue skies and all the best, Bob Tripp __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <doug(at)ripleyair.com>
Subject: Re: elevator balance
Date: Oct 21, 2008
MessageBob and Peter, The elevators on the Turbine Moose we built were not 100% statically balanced, we used the weights supplied by Murphy installed per the manual. Our elevator was not 100% balanced. I personally have flown that airplane to 150 kts indicated. I am not an aeronautical engineer....hell, not even sure if I spelled it right. However, do some poking around other airplanes and you will find many without statically balanced elevators. Van's RV types (fast) do have 100% static balance on elevators. My first homebuilt, Midget Mustang, red-line airspeed was 300 mph, it had no static balance weights on the elevators. C-172s have weights but they are not 100% balanced. Keep digging, you'll find many more examples. Hopefully we can stir up an engineer that can explain why we do or do not need 100% static balance on the elevator. Doug www.ripleyair.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Cattoni To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:24 AM Subject: RE: MurphyMoose-List: elevator balance Hi Bob, My friend and I rare also building a Moose. Here in Kelowna BC Canada. We do have the exact situation as you encountering, regarding the balance weight of the elevator. So far we could not figure out what to do. It would be very helpful, if you would let us know, if you come to a resolution of this problem. As you know, communication with Murphy is not the easiest thing now a days. Thank you for posting. And thanks in advance for keeping us posted. Best Regards, Peter Cattoni -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BOB TRIPP Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:46 AM To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com Subject: MurphyMoose-List: elevator balance We are in the final stages of assembling our MYSTERIOUS MOOSE at a hangar in Arlington Airport. Most of the problems we have encountered we have been able to resolve in one manner or another. However, here is one which seems to be a puzzle. We put our elevator on a bench to do a balance test and found that the elevator was balanced aft the hinge line to the point that it would require 6 1/2 to 7 pounds of additional weight at the forward edge of the Ballance horn to create a balanced state. Normally, it is desired to have neutral to a slight forward balance state. When we queried Murphy, they said that this was the design point in all the Murphy Moose kits. So now, our question is-- did any of you check your balance point before you installed the elevator, and if so, what was your balance condition? When we checked back against the original elevator installation drawings, we realized that our weights are installed in a somewhat different location than what's called out in the drawings. If anyone out there also has the weights in their possession before they've been installed, would you weigh them for us and also take a picture of their configuration. It may be that this is not a problem, if it's true that all of airplanes have been built and flown in this balance state. However, from the standpoint of flutter, this is a very undesirable configuration. This is our concern, that somehow we have a unique or unusual situation. We will be consulting with Murphy on this, but so far have not received much useful information. Blue skies and all the best, Bob Tripp href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?MurphyMoose-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net>
Subject: Autocad drawing for Moose panel
Date: Oct 22, 2008
MessageI am looking for an AutoCad drawing file, either dwg or dxf for the Moose panel. I need to do the layout for the instrumentation, and I cannot find a template for the blank panel. If anyone can help it will be greatly appreciated.... Also, if anyone can give me their thoughts on how to match a M14P with a 28 volt electrical system to a 12 volt airplane, that would be very helpful. Thanks Ted French ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Wampach" <rwampach(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Murphy Moose-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/22/08
Date: Oct 23, 2008
Ted, You can find converter boxes 10 - 15 Amp output, 12v to 24v or 24v to 12v. If you run a 2 buss systems you can run the 12 volt items such as trim servo and other 12 v required items. Then run other things like landing lights, strobes, avionics Etc. from the primary 24 volt buss. If you have only a few items that require 12 volts you might think of using 2 12v batteries instead of 1 24v battery. Then tap off between them for the 12v source. This may require a diode or two in the system. I would suggest talking to an avionics shop for this guidance. I do not have any thing on panel lay out, if you do find something please share. Dick Wampach SR-108 From: "Ted French" <ted_french(at)telus.net> Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Autocad drawing for Moose panel MessageI am looking for an AutoCad drawing file, either dwg or dxf for the Moose panel. I need to do the layout for the instrumentation, and I cannot find a template for the blank panel. If anyone can help it will be greatly appreciated.... Also, if anyone can give me their thoughts on how to match a M14P with a 28 volt electrical system to a 12 volt airplane, that would be very helpful. Thanks Ted French ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2008
From: dralle(at)matronics.com
Subject: Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November!
Dear Listers, Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services at Matronics. It's through soley through the Contributions of List members that these Matronics Lists are possible. You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site ( http://forums.matronics.com ), Wiki site ( http://wiki.matronics.com ), or other related pages such as the List Search Engine ( http://www.matronics.com/search ), List Browse ( http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse ), etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisments. During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every few days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages. The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all of the bills associated with running these lists. Your personal Contribution counts. Once again, this year I've got a terrific line up of free gifts to go along with the various Contribution levels. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the vary members and vendors that you'll find on Matronics Lists and have been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates. This year, these generous people include Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection (http://www.aeroelectric.com/), Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore (http://www.buildersbooks.com/), and Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/). These are extremely generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites. Each one offers a unique and very useful aviation-related product line. I would like publicly to thank Bob, Andy, and Jon for their generous support of the Lists again this year!! You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount!! To make your Contribution, please visit the secure site below: https://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral support over the years. I know it sounds a little cliche, but you guys really do feel like family. Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Contribution Site URL Clarification
Dear Listers, In my List Fund Raiser kickoff email last night, I mistyped the URL for the *initial* Contribution web site and couple of people reported receiving SSL certificate errors. The actual payment entry pages where were correct, however, so there were no certificate issues that impacted payment data. I'm sorry for the confusion. Please use the following URL to start your List Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Fund Raiser
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes a Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-) I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the commercial-grade Internet connection and to pay the huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered on. I run all of the Matronics Email List and Forums sites here locally which allows me to control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance. Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Reminder
Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser List of Contributors - Please Make A Contribution
Today! Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists
Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%...
As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser. Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep these Lists up and running? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What's My Contribution Used For?
Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, Wiki and PhotoShare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Murphy Moose Prop
From: "HBaker" <henry.baker(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 16, 2008
I have no knowledge of the available propellers for a Murphy Moose with an M-14 engine. Some of the questions I have are: 1. Is there a 2-bladed aluminum prop available with Western fittings? 2. How does the performance compare between 2 & 3 blades on floats? 3. What is the clearance between the cowling and the propeller flange? -------- Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214583#214583 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Murphy Moose Primer Line
From: "HBaker" <henry.baker(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Nov 16, 2008
Can someone send me a picture of the second cylinder primer line? Preferably showing location and hook up? Thanks. -------- Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214584#214584 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Coy" <george(at)gesoco.com>
Subject: Murphy Moose Prop
Date: Nov 17, 2008
The propeller options are as follows: 1. Russian two blade composite V-530 Not in Production but available overhauled and some new old stock. Prices about $5,000 for a good overhauled prop. Replacement modern blades are also available for the hubs. 2. MTV-9 German three blade composite prop. In production with several variations including reversing. Price in the range of $15,000 to $20,000 depending on options. 3. Hartzell aluminum prop. Price around $12,000. Requires different governor. Governor price ranges between $1400 and $2200. Spinner is additional $1500. Total price around $15,000. I personally did the flight testing for certification by Hartzell for the Hartzell propeller. They needed to be sure it was suitable for M14P engine. There are one or two other composite props that are available, but not in much use. They have not been proven in my estimation. There is no two blade aluminum prop that has been tested for the M14P engine. Remember that the relatively low RPM of the engine at full power (1950 RPM at the prop) requires a rather long bade to absorb the torque and translate it to thrust. At 60% power, the prop is only turning at 1170 RPM! The 3 blade propeller will give about 15% more thrust than a two blade prop with all other things being equal. It is a decided advantage on floats. The cowling clearance depends on the cowling. I think on Moose aircraft it is about 6 inches. George Coy Coy Aircraft Sales 714 Airport Rd. Swanton VT 05488 802-868-5633 off 802-363-5782 cell george.coy(at)gmail.com SKYPE george.coy -----Original Message----- From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HBaker Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: MurphyMoose-List: Murphy Moose Prop --> I have no knowledge of the available propellers for a Murphy Moose with an M-14 engine. Some of the questions I have are: 1. Is there a 2-bladed aluminum prop available with Western fittings? 2. How does the performance compare between 2 & 3 blades on floats? 3. What is the clearance between the cowling and the propeller flange? -------- Currently building a Murphy Moose - any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214583#214583 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Members Are Saying...
Dear Listers, November is the Annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are supported solely through your generous Contributions during this time. Please make your Contribution today and pick up a really nice free gift at this same time: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Listers have been including some really nice comments regarding what the Lists mean to them along with their Contributions this year. I've included a few of them below. Please read them over and see if some perhaps echo your feelings as well. Thank you for your support this year! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best bargain in the entire industry!! -Owen B Every year your lists are better, sure #1 in e-mail list in the world. -Gary G Thank you for an awesome site! -Ashley M Your lists are important to me and well worth paying for. -Calvin A Thank you for providing such and informative and ad free environment to learn by. -Myron H As always, a valuable and extremely useful resource. Stephen T As always, a great service. -Reade G Very much appreciate this site and the communications it has enabled between builders. -Larry M This service is worth every penny. -Robert S Great site! Thanks a ton for its functionality! -Peter B The RV-10 list feels like my community. -Dave S The lists are fantastic, a great source! -Jimmy Y I've learned a lot from the List. -Gabriel F A wonderful resource. -Gerald G Well done. -Richard N Years of good service. -William M Valuable service. -Keith H The site is quite helpful. -Jon M Very interesting List that I read form the beginning. -Alain L A well managed site. -Carl B Great service. -Svein Kare J Still the most useful program on the computer. -Fergus K Great contribution to my project! -Robert K Thanks for keeping a great list. -Dt G The List continues to provide excellent information. -Tony C This is a wonderful resource that has easily saved me a bunch on my build-time. -Ralph C Thank you for providing a great service. The Zenith builder's community would be in sad shape without the Zenith-List's. -Terrence P I really do get pleasure out of reading the List every day. -Bill V Great source of information. -Arthur V Thanks for a great service. Very enjoyable. -Louis B You know we all could not do without your support!! -James S Great resource! -Douglas D Thanks for the great service. -John B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...?
Dear Listers, The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their support... ;-) Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep these Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely have to start adding advertisements to offset the costs of running the Lists. But I *really* don't want to have to start doing that. I really like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the members appreciate that too. Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the continued ad-free operation of all these Lists: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC
Dear Listers, Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics Email Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Value of the List...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days...
Dear Listers, There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling! If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take a minute right now to make your personal Contribution? Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Personal Check: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution
Today! There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors 2008! Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by sending your personal check to: Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 (Please write your email address on the check!) Thank you in advance for your support of these List services! Matt Dralle Matronics Email and Forum Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Listers Have Been Saying
Wow! Many of the members making a List Support Contribution this year have been using the Comments field to leave a personal message about the Lists. Thank you! I have included a number of them below. Please read over a few and see if you perhaps can echo some of the same sentiments regarding the value of the Lists to you... There is only a couple more days left for this year's List Fund Raiser and we're still way behind previous years. If you've been waiting until the last minute to show your support, Now is the Time! Please make your Contribution and pick up a great gift at the same time! By Credit Card or Paypal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or By Personal Check: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550-7227 Thank you in advance!! Matt Dralle Email List and Forums Administrator Here is some of the great feedback members have been including along with their personal Contributions this year... Over the years, the info I have received from the RV-List has saved me thousands of dollars, and dozens of hours of time by helping me avoid bad purchases, pointing me at vendors with low prices and excellent support, and providing solutions to the typical head scratchers that you run into. Kevin H Valuable service. Best List(s) on the Internet! George A Please accept this token not as an indicator of what this list has been worth to me this past year. Lew G Great information and entertainment. Tim V Thanks again for another great year of service. This project would be beyond me if it were not for the list. Moreover, the friendships I have found are worth their weight in GOLD! Robert B Great support you provide to all the subscribers! Freddie H Read it every day. PF B Thanks for your excellent management of the Matronics Lists! Your services are head and shoulders above the rest. James M Without the "List", there would be no Kolb "community". Bill T Thanks, Matt, for a great service! I've been monitoring and using the lists since 1999. Richard D Thanks for such a terrific site and for all the work and effort you put into it. John R A great service year after year. John D ..another year of fantastic service. Jerry B This list is a great resource. Arden A Great list. James M Lists were a great help while building HRII N561FS. John S Great resources for both the beginner and experienced. George R Good service. Gary G


January 29, 2006 - November 30, 2008

MurphyMoose-Archive.digest.vol-aa