Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-al
December 03, 1998 - December 26, 1998
> > Steve:
> >
> > Good for you! Be sure and take lots of pictures to be scanned and
> accessed
> > through this discussion group. By the way, how many hours do you
> estimate
> > you'll be in the air, to and from, on your trip?
> >
> > Mark Boynton
> > Phoenix, AZ
> >
> >
> >
> > > Duane and I have decided to make plans for Brodhead 99' We will be
> > flying
> > > from Utah at 70mph. I have decided that I cant miss the 70 year
> > > anniversary.
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > UUNet
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 2:46 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: STeevEE
> > >
> > >
> > > Even if I didn't think the world of Steve for running our discussion
> > > list...you gotta like anybody that goes by STeevEE!! One day I'm going
> > to
> > > get to go to Brodhead to meet all of you guys! Can't wait!
> > >
> > > Jim Wright
> > > jgw(at)village.uunet.be
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:36 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Plans question
> > >
> > >
> > > >Gordon/Guys
> > > >
> > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to
> order
> > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and
> > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the
> > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.
> > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you
> > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large
> > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there
> > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a
> > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during
> the
> > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then
> > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.
> > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however
> > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can
> > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.
> > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,
> > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the
> > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you
> > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.
> > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the
> > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.
> > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the
> 60's
> > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.
> > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has
> > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard
> > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans
> > > >got alot of copies sold too.
> > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol
> > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a
> > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one
> > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans
> > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He
> > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of
> > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald
> > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to
> come.
> > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building
> > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to
> > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???
> > > >
> > > >Mike C.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
> >
>
> _______________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Southwick <ksouthw(at)ect.enron.com> |
Please change my target email for the discussion group. I now receive it at
ksouth(at)ect.enron.com
I'd like to receive it only at
ksouth(at)urjet.net
THanks. I'm glad to receive the postings!
Kevin Southwick
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bingelis Engine books |
In a message dated 12/3/98 8:57:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nv_nolan(at)apollo.commnet.edu writes:
<< Just bought Tony's two engine books. His others have been an immense help.
While he wrote for Sport Aviation, he would also answer questions via
mail. I wrote to him on several occasions and always received a friendly
and thorough answer.
>>
I thought there was only one engine book, firewall forward. Whats the other?
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Brodhead 99' |
-----Original Message-----
Gordon Brimhall
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 99'
What is Flight of Passage about?
The adventures of two teenage boys rebuilding their 90hp cub and flying
across the country growing up and apart from dad's influence. Highly
recommended (be prepared for a bit of swearing however)
Where does everybody plan to stay while back their?
I'll have a tent under my wing.
Stevee
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 99' |
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> Gordon Brimhall
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:17 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Brodhead 99'
>
> What is Flight of Passage about?
>
> The adventures of two teenage boys rebuilding their 90hp cub and flying
> across the country growing up and apart from dad's influence. Highly
> recommended (be prepared for a bit of swearing however)
>
> Where does everybody plan to stay while back their?
>
> I'll have a tent under my wing.
>
> Stevee
Thanks for info.
Where can I stay with my Camper? and what will the cost be if any?
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Buckeye Pietenpol Association |
Gordon,
You kidding?? It's the best.
Excellent reading. Join and get all the back issues. Guarantee you can't put
them down.
Regards,
Dom. Bellissimo
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buckeye Pietenpol Association
>How many of you are members of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association?
>
>Is it a good association to belong too?
>
>Isn't this List associated with it?
>
>I'm thinking about joining come January.
>
>I belong to EAA already but not a local chapter yet as none are close to
>us.
>
>Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr. Art Holiman
from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail. Yesterday he
struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was hospitalized in
serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
I remember seeing this plane at Brodhead. Sure hope he pulls through. Lets
all say a prayer for Art.
Dom.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 8:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol down
>Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr. Art Holiman
>from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail. Yesterday he
>struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was hospitalized in
>serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buckeye Pietenpol Association |
Well I plan to join come January. I will try it for a year to see if it is as
good as some say.
Gordon
Raffaele Bellissimo wrote:
> Gordon,
> You kidding?? It's the best.
> Excellent reading. Join and get all the back issues. Guarantee you can't put
> them down.
> Regards,
>
> Dom. Bellissimo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:55 AM
> Subject: Buckeye Pietenpol Association
>
> >How many of you are members of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association?
> >
> >Is it a good association to belong too?
> >
> >Isn't this List associated with it?
> >
> >I'm thinking about joining come January.
> >
> >I belong to EAA already but not a local chapter yet as none are close to
> >us.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
Brent Reed
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol down
>Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr. Art Holiman
>from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail. Yesterday he
>struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was hospitalized in
>serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buckeye Pietenpol Association |
I heartily second the opinion. The contacts alone are worth it. I bought
every back issue to year one, and read them cover to cover. I highlighted
every point of interest, then added my highlighted points to Grant Mclaren's
Pietenpol Notebook. Lot's of construction hints, examples of how others
solved various problems (like brake pedal locations, seat belt attach
points, Model A tips and references, weight and balance calculations,
etc.)that I would have forgotten during the 4 year build. Along with the
F&G Manuals, and Don Pietenpol's booklet, it comes as close to a builder's
manual as you can get. At $3.00 this is a deal that can't be beat!
Al Swanson
Fuselage done for the winter, ribs from Charles Brubeck, starting the metal
work.
>
>Well I plan to join come January. I will try it for a year to see if it is as
>good as some say.
>
>Gordon
>
>
>Raffaele Bellissimo wrote:
>
>> Gordon,
>> You kidding?? It's the best.
>> Excellent reading. Join and get all the back issues. Guarantee you can't put
>> them down.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dom. Bellissimo
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gordon Brimhall
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:55 AM
>> Subject: Buckeye Pietenpol Association
>>
>> >How many of you are members of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association?
>> >
>> >Is it a good association to belong too?
>> >
>> >Isn't this List associated with it?
>> >
>> >I'm thinking about joining come January.
>> >
>> >I belong to EAA already but not a local chapter yet as none are close to
>> >us.
>> >
>> >Gordon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
Yes, on the tail. It was one thing many people remembered about the plane
even if they knew nothing about planes. He flew to Oshkosh and Broadhead
many times, but not in the last few years. Haven't heard any more on his
condition.
> Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
>
> Brent Reed
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:03 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol down
>
>
> >Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr. Art
Holiman
> >from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail. Yesterday he
> >struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was hospitalized in
> >serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 99' |
Gordon:
Flight of Passage is the true story of Rinker and Kernihan Buck, who, in the
sixties, and at the ages of fifteen and sixteen, flew their J3C65 Cub from
coast to coast and back. Its a great adventure story with a sub-text about
the boys relationship with their father (or the other way around, depending
on your perspective). Anyone who loves flying is missing out if they don't
read this one. Rinker Buck is the author.
Mark Boynton
Phoenix, AZ
P.S. Its freezing here. Down into the 60's yesterday!
> What is Flight of Passage about?
>
> Where does everybody plan to stay while back their?
>
> Guess I wonder if you all have watched too many Marlon Brando Movies
because I
> seem not to be able to get an answer to my camping questions.:-)
>
> Gordon
>
>
>
> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
>
> > Steve:
> >
> > Hey! That's right. Flight of Passage should be required reading for all
of
> > you who will make th pilgrimage. NEWS FLASH - All of you planning to
make
> > the trip should get a copy of Flight of Passage, by Rinker Buck, and
read it
> > prior to the trip.
> >
> >
> > > Many, many hours. Our preliminary guess for vacation time planing is
a
> > week
> > > each way. I suspect we can do it in 2 8 hour days and one 10 hour
day,
> > > however. Thanks to you Mark, after reading Flight of Passage by
Rinker
> > > Buck, This trip has taken on new life. I really want to do it!
> > >
> > > Steve E.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > mboynton(at)excite.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 7:35 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Brodhead 99'
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve:
> > >
> > > Good for you! Be sure and take lots of pictures to be scanned and
> > accessed
> > > through this discussion group. By the way, how many hours do you
> > estimate
> > > you'll be in the air, to and from, on your trip?
> > >
> > > Mark Boynton
> > > Phoenix, AZ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Duane and I have decided to make plans for Brodhead 99' We will be
> > > flying
> > > > from Utah at 70mph. I have decided that I cant miss the 70 year
> > > > anniversary.
> > > >
> > > > Steve E.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
Of
> > > > UUNet
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 2:46 PM
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Subject: STeevEE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Even if I didn't think the world of Steve for running our
discussion
> > > > list...you gotta like anybody that goes by STeevEE!! One day I'm
going
> > > to
> > > > get to go to Brodhead to meet all of you guys! Can't wait!
> > > >
> > > > Jim Wright
> > > > jgw(at)village.uunet.be
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:36 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Plans question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Gordon/Guys
> > > > >
> > > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to
> > order
> > > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and
> > > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without
the
> > > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.
> > > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take
you
> > > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a
large
> > > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes
there
> > > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with
a
> > > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions
during
> > the
> > > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and
then
> > > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.
> > > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet
however
> > > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can
> > > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.
> > > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,
> > > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all
the
> > > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if
you
> > > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.
> > > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the
> > > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.
> > > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the
> > 60's
> > > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.
> > > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has
> > > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard
> > > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans
> > > > >got alot of copies sold too.
> > > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol
> > > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a
> > > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one
> > > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet
plans
> > > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He
> > > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set
of
> > > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald
> > > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to
> > come.
> > > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy
building
> > > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to
> > > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???
> > > > >
> > > > >Mike C.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Southwick <ksouthw(at)ect.enron.com> |
| Subject: | Flight of Passage - story line |
SInce many Piet fans have been asking about Flight of Passage, I'm posting
these reader comments from Amazon.com (mega book store):
and enjoyed the story. It was an exciting and
the book from Amazon for my mother to read.
in the book. The radio reader had edited
book for another elderly friend, but my mother
wouldn't be as open minded as she was about
for the open minded readers. I do wish the
it.
writing was beautiful anf the th story riviting.
of us have visited. i nly wish I had done the
"West with the Night" for me for shear writing
1998
There were passages that made me laugh so
me cry for their poignancy. This was a truly
yet ordinary brothers. The description was
the story flowed. I'm afraid my wife may not
finish this great book. I look forward to more
this one!
love.
collection of passages devoted to the author's long
domineering, eccentric father through the vehicle of
older brother Kernanhan. It is an oddessey - a
friendship and understanding told through the
boy, oftentimes at odds with his demanding
our country was still rattled by the Kennedy family
story of two young men in an antique airplane
repeated, worn out stories of Stearman men and
stories to their sons someday in probably the same
brother, having attended the same schools, and
fly a restored Piper Cub. But the magic of
non flyers alike. It reminds us that we live in a
all do, and like most families, we have our
misunderstandings, but with experience
bestowed upon us - maybe years later - but a
really didn't want the boys' flight to end. Well
discovery.
interesting youth, being able to fly cross country in a
fascinating, as is tbe account of their relationship with
accuracy of the account since at least one glaring
western Kentucky and seeing railroad tunnels and
suspect he has confused this trip with an earlier trip
hills to speak of in the western part of the
cabins (in the 1960s!). A conspicuous error like
the book, but on balance it is enjoyable reading.
dreams.
60's through the eyes of one innocent and one
flight of two boys in 1966 across country in a
complex interactions between teenage boys
surprising events of the trip. Encounters with a
openly shared through the gifted writing style of
contrasted against the complex issues of the times, the
reading this book, one is flying in another time,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buckeye Pietenpol Association |
Thanks for the Second of the motion.
What is the 3.00 item you are talking about?
EAA has a special if you buy all five F&G Manuals, I think 24.95
Gordon
Alan Swanson wrote:
> I heartily second the opinion. The contacts alone are worth it. I bought
> every back issue to year one, and read them cover to cover. I highlighted
> every point of interest, then added my highlighted points to Grant Mclaren's
> Pietenpol Notebook. Lot's of construction hints, examples of how others
> solved various problems (like brake pedal locations, seat belt attach
> points, Model A tips and references, weight and balance calculations,
> etc.)that I would have forgotten during the 4 year build. Along with the
> F&G Manuals, and Don Pietenpol's booklet, it comes as close to a builder's
> manual as you can get. At $3.00 this is a deal that can't be beat!
>
> Al Swanson
> Fuselage done for the winter, ribs from Charles Brubeck, starting the metal
> work.
>
> >
> >Well I plan to join come January. I will try it for a year to see if it is as
> >good as some say.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> >Raffaele Bellissimo wrote:
> >
> >> Gordon,
> >> You kidding?? It's the best.
> >> Excellent reading. Join and get all the back issues. Guarantee you can't put
> >> them down.
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Dom. Bellissimo
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gordon Brimhall
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:55 AM
> >> Subject: Buckeye Pietenpol Association
> >>
> >> >How many of you are members of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association?
> >> >
> >> >Is it a good association to belong too?
> >> >
> >> >Isn't this List associated with it?
> >> >
> >> >I'm thinking about joining come January.
> >> >
> >> >I belong to EAA already but not a local chapter yet as none are close to
> >> >us.
> >> >
> >> >Gordon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
I sure hope he recovers OK.
Be nice if I was flying at age 74. Even being alive would be nice. Only one out
of 7 Brimhall Uncles made it past 71. He's the one who never left Arkansas.
Gordon
Brent Reed wrote:
> Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
>
> Brent Reed
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:03 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol down
>
> >Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr. Art Holiman
> >from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail. Yesterday he
> >struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was hospitalized in
> >serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans question |
mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
Gordan, are you from Ark. I'm in Rogers Ark. or at least I work at
the rogers airport
Robert B.
---Gordon Brimhall wrote:
>
> I sure hope he recovers OK.
>
> Be nice if I was flying at age 74. Even being alive would be nice.
Only one out
> of 7 Brimhall Uncles made it past 71. He's the one who never left
Arkansas.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> Brent Reed wrote:
>
> > Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
> >
> > Brent Reed
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:03 PM
> > Subject: Pietenpol down
> >
> > >Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr.
Art Holiman
> > >from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail.
Yesterday he
> > >struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was
hospitalized in
> > >serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans question |
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
> mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.
Mr. Sky Scout Himself.
Are you Drooling Big Time?
About What?
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Nope, If I were from Arkansas like my Daddy and never left I would
probably have a projected longer life span because of all the clean farm
living.
My Dad was born and raised in Wynne Ark and Mom form Kansas. I still
have a couple Uncles and Aunts in Wynne and some cousins from Wynne to
memphis Tenn.
I'm from Calif, Long Beach and most of my life except for service time
have lived in Calif.
So what town are you living in?
And do you fly a Piet?
Gordon Spelled with an O
Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman wrote:
> Gordan, are you from Ark. I'm in Rogers Ark. or at least I work at
> the rogers airport
> Robert B.
>
> ---Gordon Brimhall wrote:
> >
> > I sure hope he recovers OK.
> >
> > Be nice if I was flying at age 74. Even being alive would be nice.
> Only one out
> > of 7 Brimhall Uncles made it past 71. He's the one who never left
> Arkansas.
> >
> > Gordon
> >
> >
> > Brent Reed wrote:
> >
> > > Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
> > >
> > > Brent Reed
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 5:03 PM
> > > Subject: Pietenpol down
> > >
> > > >Anyone attending Broadhead a few years back might remember Mr.
> Art Holiman
> > > >from Benton Arkansas. His plane had a roster on the tail.
> Yesterday he
> > > >struck a power line and went down. The paper said he was
> hospitalized in
> > > >serious condition. He is 74 and a fine gentleman.
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Davenport <gandalf(at)nospamgoldcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
Brent Reed wrote:
> Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
I don't suppose a healthy rooster would have any difficulty keeping
up with a Piet.
Seriously, it's always a near thing to hear about a fellow pilot going
down. I hope he recovers, and soon.
--
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
- director of the US Patent Office, 1899.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
Evendently a rooster on your tail does not keep you from running into
telephone poles.
I wonder if he had an engine out?
Gordon
Alan Davenport wrote:
> Brent Reed wrote:
>
> > Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
>
> I don't suppose a healthy rooster would have any difficulty keeping
> up with a Piet.
>
> Seriously, it's always a near thing to hear about a fellow pilot going
> down. I hope he recovers, and soon.
> --
> "Everything that can be invented has been invented."
> - director of the US Patent Office, 1899.
________________________________________________________________________________
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol down |
I've seen this Peit, the rooster was painted on the tail an was a
realy nice peit but real heavey, lots of mods
---Alan Davenport wrote:
>
> Brent Reed wrote:
>
> > Do you mean he had a rooster on his tail? Wish I had seen that.
>
> I don't suppose a healthy rooster would have any difficulty keeping
> up with a Piet.
>
> Seriously, it's always a near thing to hear about a fellow pilot going
> down. I hope he recovers, and soon.
> --
> "Everything that can be invented has been invented."
> - director of the US Patent Office, 1899.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
This ad was on another list.
Gordon
I was cruising the classifieds and came across this add that might be
of interest to someone:
PIETENPOL. 1998. $7500 USD. . Aircraft has flown with Corvair Engine
and new 66x30 Hegy propeller, which was removed to replace with A-65
Continental. Wings off ready to ship. $1000 for great running Corvair
Engine and Hegy Prop. $7000 for the Aircraft. Package $7500 O.B.O. or
trade. Contact Tim Cunningham in Runnells, Iowa, USA. Telephone:
+1-515-237-1510. Fax: +1-515-237-1642. -- Posted: 11/7/98
KITFOX CLASSIC 5. 1996. $25,000 USD. . 100
________________________________________________________________________________
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Dear Crew
A few questions from Australia:
2. If not, are there any readily available alternatives?
3. Is there anyone else in Aus. Piet building?
ta
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Rob:
The closest guy I know is Simon McCormack over on Taz. go to
http://users.aol.com/BPANews and look up past articles in newsletter
#56. His story is there. He is building with an A' Ford and seemed to
think they were available.
Also, go to http://www.flash.net/~swagaero/ for some info on other
auto engines. Just be prepared to look at the long fuselage version
that Bernard used with his Corvair engine.
Oh, and by the way, got my start there in Townsville, Queensland.
Good luck and welcome aboard.
Warren
Rob Hart wrote:
> Dear Crew
>
> A few questions from Australia:
>
> 1. Does anyone know of a source of model A engines in Oz?
> 2. If not, are there any readily available alternatives?
> 3. Is there anyone else in Aus. Piet building?
>
> ta
> Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
G-Day Rob===Read Hamilton's directory lists a dozen Piet builders throughout
Australia. Has many building hints as well as material sources. Bought mine
early this year for $23.(well worth it).
you can reach him at: Read Hamilton, 191 School Street, Manchester, Ma 0l944
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
>Hi Rob:
> The closest guy I know is Simon McCormack over on Taz. go to
>http://users.aol.com/BPANews and look up past articles in newsletter
>#56. His story is there. He is building with an A' Ford and seemed to
>think they were available.
> Also, go to http://www.flash.net/~swagaero/ for some info on other
>auto engines. Just be prepared to look at the long fuselage version
>that Bernard used with his Corvair engine.
> Oh, and by the way, got my start there in Townsville, Queensland.
>Good luck and welcome aboard.
>Warren
>
>Rob Hart wrote:
>
>> Dear Crew
>>
>> A few questions from Australia:
>>
>> 1. Does anyone know of a source of model A engines in Oz?
>> 2. If not, are there any readily available alternatives?
>> 3. Is there anyone else in Aus. Piet building?
>>
>> ta
>> Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Endicotts <rasala(at)brutus.bright.net> |
I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
on the list twice?
Thanks,
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Nichols <Nichol14(at)ix.netcom.com> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TLC62770(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:custom planes |
Ijust got back from the store and low and behold . Iwas gazying at custom
planes magijine and found an article on our favorite airplane . check it out
when you get the chance .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
Larry, Maybe your getting mine as the messages have been a little bleak
lately ! just kidding
phil
The Endicotts wrote:
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
>
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: custom planes |
TLC62770(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ijust got back from the store and low and behold . Iwas gazying at custom
> planes magijine and found an article on our favorite airplane . check it out
> when you get the chance .
Your talking about the December issue? Yes, article on the Piet.
I just ordered the 1932 Flying & Glider Manual from EAA, was going to order all
but want to see one first. Plans for 5 or more planes and the Pietenpol being the
reason I ordered it.
In this day of fast $3.00 2nd day mail I still wonder why EAA gets 3.50 for
shipping and says it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get it. But I wanted to try their
service and donate to my club.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
Rob,
Simon McCormick's Piet is the first of type in Australia. He is building under
101.28 but with the new regs you can build and fly a Piet in the Ultralight experimental
category.
Simon is a friend of mine and a very helpful young fellow. I'm sure he would welcome
your call. His phone is (036)339 4404.
His Address is 8 Pinsley Drive, St Leonards, Tas 7250
Regards,
Leo
(Jodel D18 builder)
--
On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 18:42:15 Rob Hart wrote:
>Dear Crew
>
>A few questions from Australia:
>
>2. If not, are there any readily available alternatives?
>3. Is there anyone else in Aus. Piet building?
>
>ta
>Rob
>
-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Thanks for the terrific welcome and all the info, Guys. Obviously
this forum is going to be as important to my project as any other
source of information. Cheers.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
Funny thing=====while browsing thru an article on the Smithsonian, I see a
famous aircraft with the markings "NX211" on it and I ask myself, "was the
first solo Atlantic crossing done by an experimental aircraft?" I never
realized that before.of course It's the Spirit of St Louis I refer to.
JoeC
A
>>
>> Mike I was reading this and was wondering where did you put the
>>experimental sign in 2 inch letters min.
>
>JIM !!!!! Boy am I Glad you asked this question. Guess what ??
>You don't need the EXPERIMENTAL sign ANYWHERE on a
>Pietenpol. How do you get around this ?? When you apply for
>an N number registration apply for and use NX........ not just N.
>The X designates that your aircraft is in fact experimental and can
>be used in lieu of the bumper sticker thing for experimental designs
>OVER 30 years old. I can't quote you the FAR on this but I
>printed it out and had it on hand for the FAA guy when he came out
>to inspect my plane. He was not aware of this loophole but now he
>is. Please note that when you get your FAA paperwork back they
>will not show the NX only the N, but don't worry...as long as you
>use this on the aircraft and all your paperwork you will be fine.
>I'll look up the FAR if you remind me.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Nichols <Nichol14(at)ix.netcom.com> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
I'd sure like to get a copy of that F.A.R. if you can locate it. Otherwise,
I'll just have to dive into the F.A.R.s myself. I like this one!
Thanx!
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
Joe, concerning the X in tail N. you can call E.A.A. and they'll send
you all the fars' on it, more stuff than a inspector wants to look at...
---fishin wrote:
>
> Funny thing=====while browsing thru an article on the Smithsonian, I
see a
> famous aircraft with the markings "NX211" on it and I ask myself,
"was the
> first solo Atlantic crossing done by an experimental aircraft?" I
never
> realized that before.of course It's the Spirit of St Louis I refer to.
> JoeC
>
>
> A
> >>
> >> Mike I was reading this and was wondering where did you put the
> >>experimental sign in 2 inch letters min.
> >
> >JIM !!!!! Boy am I Glad you asked this question. Guess what ??
> >You don't need the EXPERIMENTAL sign ANYWHERE on a
> >Pietenpol. How do you get around this ?? When you apply for
> >an N number registration apply for and use NX........ not just N.
> >The X designates that your aircraft is in fact experimental and can
> >be used in lieu of the bumper sticker thing for experimental designs
> >OVER 30 years old. I can't quote you the FAR on this but I
> >printed it out and had it on hand for the FAA guy when he came out
> >to inspect my plane. He was not aware of this loophole but now he
> >is. Please note that when you get your FAA paperwork back they
> >will not show the NX only the N, but don't worry...as long as you
> >use this on the aircraft and all your paperwork you will be fine.
> >I'll look up the FAR if you remind me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wood temperature & glueing |
I have just finished the cutting capstrip for my 16 remaining ribs,
and before glueing, would like to know if I should bring my wood up to
room temperature (65-ish?) as well as my T-88 (which I keep in the
house). My shop has a furnace, so should I wait til it warms up the
wood before glueing?
Thanks!
Richard
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible, when you
get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
using.
good luck
John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
Hmmm. Thats a little tough unless I heat my shop 24 hours a day
(ouch). I pretty much only heat it when I am working on the plane (I
have done only cutting until now), so the temp in the shop drops to
whatever it is outside. Would I be better off moving my operation to
my basement for the winter, or biting the bullet and keeping my shop
hovering around 65 degrees all winter? Thanks!
---John Duprey wrote:
>
> Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
> constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible, when you
> get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
> using.
>
> good luck
> John Duprey
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
Rob,
Simon got much of the aircraft grade hardware - connectors etc - he needed for
the Piet from Hangar 9 at Moorrabbin here in Melbourne. Hangar 9 has NOS (new
old stock)AN grade material at 10% to 20% of the cost of new. Simon saved heaps
of $s getting his stuff at Hangar 9. Call me on (03)9927 2514 or (03)9598 3115
if you plan to visit Melbourne and I'll take you over to Hangar 9 and introduce
you around.
Regards,
Leo
P.S. I've been trying to contact Luis Ricardo the owner/builder of the D18 now
flying in W.A. on the VH register but can't locate him. Do you know where I can
phone Luis?
--
On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 23:46:44 Rob Hart wrote:
>Thanks for the terrific welcome and all the info, Guys. Obviously
>this forum is going to be as important to my project as any other
>source of information. Cheers.
>
>Rob
>
-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
Never use T-88 at any temp lower that 80 degf. It doesn't want to come out
of the bottle. The wood doesn't matter. Just joking. T-88 claims to
cure even at almost freezing temperatures. Rule of thumb is if you can
stand the temperature go for it. jas
>Hmmm. Thats a little tough unless I heat my shop 24 hours a day
>(ouch). I pretty much only heat it when I am working on the plane (I
>have done only cutting until now), so the temp in the shop drops to
>whatever it is outside. Would I be better off moving my operation to
>my basement for the winter, or biting the bullet and keeping my shop
>hovering around 65 degrees all winter? Thanks!
>
>---John Duprey wrote:
>>
>> Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
>> constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible, when you
>> get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
>> using.
>>
>> good luck
>> John Duprey
>>
>
>==
>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
>"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
>is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
>not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Leo
Don't know about the D18, but I can make some enquiries at Jandakot
and Serpentine (SAAA etc). Should be able to get pertinent info.
And thanks for the Hangar 9 invite. Don't know when I'll be in
Melbourne, but I'll sure get in touch when I am. Thanks
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
>Funny thing=====while browsing thru an article on the Smithsonian, I see
a famous aircraft with the markings "NX211" on it and I ask myself, "was
the
>first solo Atlantic crossing done by an experimental aircraft?" I
never
>realized that before.of course It's the Spirit of St Louis I refer to.
>JoeC
Joe- You know what's funnier than that ? The Spirit of St. Louis NO
longer carries that NX211 registration number. You know who has it ?
EAA- for thier replica ! Try an N-number search sometime on the web.
>>> Mike I was reading this and was wondering where did you put the
>>>experimental sign in 2 inch letters min.
Joe- If you use NX you don't need the words experimental
anywhere
on your plane. All you need are the 2" high N-numbers. Of course
you could always do the big block N-numbers on the wings like
Sky Gypsy, etc.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
Theres no question taht I'd stand out in the cold for hours at a time
to build my plane (wouldnt we all?)! I keep my T-88 in the house when
Im not using it. Its the wood I was concerned about. I can warm the
wood in front of the furnace before I start gluing, I guess. Thanks all!
---Jim Sury wrote:
>
>
> Never use T-88 at any temp lower that 80 degf. It doesn't want to
come out
> of the bottle. The wood doesn't matter. Just joking. T-88
claims to
> cure even at almost freezing temperatures. Rule of thumb is if you
can
> stand the temperature go for it. jas
>
> >Hmmm. Thats a little tough unless I heat my shop 24 hours a day
> >(ouch). I pretty much only heat it when I am working on the plane (I
> >have done only cutting until now), so the temp in the shop drops to
> >whatever it is outside. Would I be better off moving my operation to
> >my basement for the winter, or biting the bullet and keeping my shop
> >hovering around 65 degrees all winter? Thanks!
> >
> >---John Duprey wrote:
> >>
> >> Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
> >> constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible,
when you
> >> get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
> >> using.
> >>
> >> good luck
> >> John Duprey
> >>
> >
> >==
> >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> >"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> >is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> >not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
Mike===were you ever able to relocate that FAR that details the "NX" usage???
by the way, you mentioning Sky Gypsy, if you remember the picture of her in
the Aug 97 Kit Planes,,,well that's a big clue to my Piet trivia quiz.
>JoeC
>Joe- You know what's funnier than that ? The Spirit of St. Louis NO
>longer carries that NX211 registration number. You know who has it ?
>EAA- for thier replica ! Try an N-number search sometime on the web.
>
>
>>
>
>Joe- If you use NX you don't need the words experimental anywhere
>on your plane. All you need are the 2" high N-numbers. Of course
>you could always do the big block N-numbers on the wings like
>Sky Gypsy, etc.
>
>Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(a) When display of aircraft nationality and registration marks in
accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 would be
inconsistent
with exhibition of that aircraft, a U.S.-registered aircraft may be
operated
without displaying those marks anywhere on the aircraft if:
(1) It is operated for the purpose of exhibition, including a
motion
picture or television production, or an airshow;
(2) Except for practice and test fights necessary for exhibition
purposes,
it is operated only at the location of the exhibition, between the
exhibition
locations, and between those locations and the base of operations of
the
aircraft; and
(3) For each flight in the United States:
(i) It is operated with the prior approval of the Flight Standards
District
Office, in the case of a flight within the lateral boundaries of the
surface
areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for
the
takeoff airport, or within 4.4 nautical miles of that airport if it is
within
Class G airspace; or
(ii) It is operated under a flight plan filed under either Sec.
91.153 or
Sec. 91.169 of this chapter describing the marks it displays, in the
case of
any other flight.
(b)ffff,0000,0000 A small U.S.-registered
aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-
registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued
under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition
aircraft or
as an 0000,0000,ffffamateur-built
aircraft and which has the same external configuration as
an aircraft built at least 30 years
agoffff,0000,0000 may be operated without
displaying
marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2
inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting
of the
Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the
aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or
0000,0000,8080"X", experimental)
followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and
(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N"
anywhere on
the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under
paragraph
(b)(1) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of
this
section--
(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless
it
temporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23
through
45.33;
(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that
operation; or
(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 127, 133, 135, or 137
of
this chapter.
(d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for
a
person to mark it in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through
45.33, he
may apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.
[Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan. 12, 1968, as amended by
Amdt.
45-13, 46 FR 48603, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-19, 54 FR 39291, Sept. 25,
1989;
Amdt. 45-18, 54 FR 34330, Aug. 18, 1989; Amdt. 45-21, 56 FR 65653, Dec.
17,
1991]
Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
(a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft
marks
consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States
registration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft.
Each
suffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman
capital
letter.
(b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and
the
registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category
aircraft
or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator
shall
also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or
cockpit, in
letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the
words
"limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional
airworthiness," as
the case may be.
[Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan. 12, 1968, as amended by
Amdt. 45-
9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
Sec. 45.25 Location of marks on fixed-wing aircraft.
(a) The operator of a fixed-wing aircraft shall display the required
marks
on either the vertical tail surfaces or the sides of the fuselage,
except as
provided in Sec. 45.29(f).
(b) The marks required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be
displayed
as follows:
(1) If displayed on the vertical tail surfaces, horizontally on
both
surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on
the
outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However, on aircraft on which
marks
at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with Sec.
45.29(b)(1),
the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
(2) If displayed on the fuselage surfaces, horizontally on both sides
of
the fuselage between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge
of
the horizontal stabilizer. However, if engine pods or other
appurtenances are
located in this area and are an integral part of the fuselage side
surfaces,
the operator may place the marks on those pods or appurtenances.
[Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Way to go Mike!
Thanks again, for specific and delightfully useful information.
Best Regards,
Warren
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKING
>
> Subpart A--General
>
> Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
>
> (a) When display of aircraft nationality and registration marks in
> accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 would be inconsistent
> with exhibition of that aircraft, a U.S.-registered aircraft may be operated
> without displaying those marks anywhere on the aircraft if:
> (1) It is operated for the purpose of exhibition, including a motion
> picture or television production, or an airshow;
> (2) Except for practice and test fights necessary for exhibition purposes,
> it is operated only at the location of the exhibition, between the exhibition
> locations, and between those locations and the base of operations of the
> aircraft; and
> (3) For each flight in the United States:
> (i) It is operated with the prior approval of the Flight Standards District
> Office, in the case of a flight within the lateral boundaries of the surface
> areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for the
> takeoff airport, or within 4.4 nautical miles of that airport if it is within
> Class G airspace; or
> (ii) It is operated under a flight plan filed under either Sec. 91.153 or
> Sec. 91.169 of this chapter describing the marks it displays, in the case of
> any other flight.
> (b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-
> registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued
> under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or
> as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as
> an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying
> marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
> (1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
> high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the
> Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
> (i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
> (ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the
> aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental)
> followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and
> (2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N" anywhere on
> the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph
> (b)(1) of this section.
> (c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of this
> section--
> (1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless it
> temporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through
> 45.33;
> (2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or
> (3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 127, 133, 135, or 137 of
> this chapter.
> (d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for a
> person to mark it in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33, he
> may apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.
>
> [Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan. 12, 1968, as amended by Amdt.
> 45-13, 46 FR 48603, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-19, 54 FR 39291, Sept. 25, 1989;
> Amdt. 45-18, 54 FR 34330, Aug. 18, 1989; Amdt. 45-21, 56 FR 65653, Dec. 17,
> 1991]
>
> Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
>
> (a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks
> consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States
> registration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft. Each
> suffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman capital
> letter.
> (b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the
> registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category aircraft
> or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall
> also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in
> letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the words
> "limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional airworthiness," as
> the case may be.
>
> [Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan. 12, 1968, as amended by Amdt. 45-
> 9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
>
> Sec. 45.25 Location of marks on fixed-wing aircraft.
>
> (a) The operator of a fixed-wing aircraft shall display the required marks
> on either the vertical tail surfaces or the sides of the fuselage, except as
> provided in Sec. 45.29(f).
> (b) The marks required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be displayed
> as follows:
> (1) If displayed on the vertical tail surfaces, horizontally on both
> surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on the
> outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However, on aircraft on which marks
> at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with Sec. 45.29(b)(1),
> the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
> (2) If displayed on the fuselage surfaces, horizontally on both sides of
> the fuselage between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of
> the horizontal stabilizer. However, if engine pods or other appurtenances are
> located in this area and are an integral part of the fuselage side surfaces,
> the operator may place the marks on those pods or appurtenances.
>
> [Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Goodmorning Guys:
Some suggested reading that is not directly Piet related. When you
have a few moments, go to
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knowcus.txt
and read, even with the most benign attitude.
If this offends, I tender my apology in advance. I am providing
this to all of my friends and is submitted in friendship.
Best Regards,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Way to go Mike!
>Thanks again, for specific and delightfully useful information.
>Best Regards,
>Warren
You are quite welcome !! Actually you guys might want to print
these FAR's out because your inspector might not be aware of this
allowance in the rules. My inspector was just a great guy- the boss
of the Clev. FAA MIDO office and he wasn't aware of this rule until
I showed him my copy. No questions then !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
correction:
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt
Banks proposed requirement to "Know Your Customer"
________________________________________________________________________________
Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
having this problem
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
Endicotts
Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mail
I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
on the list twice?
Thanks,
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Davenport <gandalf(at)goldcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NX Registration Marks |
Forgive the length of this tome. Here's the ABRIDGED text from FAR45
regarding registration markings. I tried to cut everything that doesn't
specifically deal with this subject (use of "NX" in registrations) but it's
still kinda long. Anyway, here it is.
Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-
registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued
under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or
as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as
an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying
marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the
Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the
aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental)
followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and
(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N" anywhere on
the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph
(b)(1) of this section.
Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
(b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the
registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category aircraft
or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall
also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in
letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the words
"limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional airworthiness," as
the case may be.
[Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan. 12, 1968, as amended by Amdt. 45-
9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
Sec. 45.25 Location of marks on fixed-wing aircraft.
(a) The operator of a fixed-wing aircraft shall display the required marks
on either the vertical tail surfaces or the sides of the fuselage, except as
provided in Sec. 45.29(f).
(b) The marks required by paragraph (a) of this section shall be displayed
as follows:
(1) If displayed on the vertical tail surfaces, horizontally on both
surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of a single vertical tail or on the
outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However, on aircraft on which marks
at least 3 inches high may be displayed in accordance with Sec. 45.29(b)(1),
the marks may be displayed vertically on the vertical tail surfaces.
Sec. 45.29 Size of marks.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of
an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements
of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on--
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1,
1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January
1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks
are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or
21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built
aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180
knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in
accordance with Sec. 45.22.
--
Alan Davenport gandalf at goldcom dot com
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Forgive the length of this tome. Here's the ABRIDGED
text from FAR45
regarding registration markings. I tried to
cut everything that doesn't
specifically deal with this subject (use of "NX"
in registrations) but it's
still kinda long. Anyway, here it is.
PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKING
** Note: This text is SEVERELY ABRIDGED. **
** Only the sections I felt relevant to **
** this discussion are included, and much **
** has been deleted from some of those **
** sections. Read the complete FAR!!!
**
Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other
aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft
built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.-
registered aircraft for which an experimental
certificate has been issued
under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation
as an exhibition aircraft or
as an amateur-built aircraft and which has
the same external configuration as
an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may
be operated without displaying
marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23
through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance
with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical
tail surface consisting of the
Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number
of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to
the airworthiness certificate of the
aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted;
"L", limited; or "X", experimental)
followed by the U.S. registration number of
the aircraft; and
(2) It displays no other mark
that begins with the letter "N" anywhere on
the aircraft, unless it is the same mark that
is displayed under paragraph
(b)(1) of this section.
Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
(b) When marks that include only
the Roman capital letter "N" and the
registration number are displayed on limited
or restricted category aircraft
or experimental or provisionally certificated
aircraft, the operator shall
also display on that aircraft near each entrance
to the cabin or cockpit, in
letters not less than 2 inches nor more than
6 inches in height, the words
"limited," "restricted," "experimental," or
"provisional airworthiness," as
the case may be.
[Doc. No. 8093, Amdt. 45-5, 33 FR 450, Jan.
12, 1968, as amended by Amdt. 45-
9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977]
Sec. 45.25 Location of marks on fixed-wing
aircraft.
(a) The operator of a fixed-wing
aircraft shall display the required marks
on either the vertical tail surfaces or the
sides of the fuselage, except as
provided in Sec. 45.29(f).
(b) The marks required by paragraph
(a) of this section shall be displayed
as follows:
(1) If displayed on the vertical
tail surfaces, horizontally on both
surfaces, horizontally on both surfaces of
a single vertical tail or on the
outer surfaces of a multivertical tail. However,
on aircraft on which marks
at least 3 inches high may be displayed in
accordance with Sec. 45.29(b)(1),
the marks may be displayed vertically on the
vertical tail surfaces.
Sec. 45.29 Size of marks.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph
(f) of this section, each operator of
an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft
meeting the size requirements
of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided
in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be
of equal height and on--
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must
be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks
at least 2 inches high before November 1,
1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November
2, 1981, but before January
1, 1983, may display those marks until the
aircraft is repainted or the marks
are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high
may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches
high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which an experimental certificate has been
issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or
21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft
or as an amateur-built
aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of
the aircraft does not exceed 180
knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on
an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in
accordance with Sec. 45.22.
--
Alan Davenport
gandalf at goldcom dot com
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Steve,
Only receiving one of everything and in apparently correct date / time
sequence.
Thanks again for your efforts.
Warren
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> having this problem
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Endicotts
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: mail
>
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Davenport <gandalf(at)nospamgoldcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
I think many if not most "firsts" belong to experimental aircraft.
Obviously the Wright Bros. were flying an experimental plane even
if they didn't bother to give it an N-number! And don't forget that
the biggest airplane ever built carried an experimental registration
when it flew (the Spruce Goose, NX37602.)
fishin wrote:
> Funny thing=====while browsing thru an article on the Smithsonian, I see a
> famous aircraft with the markings "NX211" on it and I ask myself, "was the
> first solo Atlantic crossing done by an experimental aircraft?" I never
> realized that before.of course It's the Spirit of St Louis I refer to.
> JoeC
--
Alan Davenport gandalf at goldcom dot com
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
________________________________________________________________________________
It doesn't exist.
What was it about? Citatations? Back forclosures? .... which one..
Warren Shoun wrote:
> Goodmorning Guys:
> Some suggested reading that is not directly Piet related. When you
> have a few moments, go to
> http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knowcus.txt
> and read, even with the most benign attitude.
> If this offends, I tender my apology in advance. I am providing
> this to all of my friends and is submitted in friendship.
> Best Regards,
> Warren
--
/--------------------\ |~~\_____/~~\__ |
|scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~\|~~~ |
It doesn't exist.
What was it about? Citatations? Back forclosures?
.... which one..
Warren Shoun wrote:
Goodmorning Guys:
Some suggested reading that is not directly Piet
related. When you
have a few moments, go to
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knowcus.txt
and read, even with the most benign attitude.
If this offends, I tender my apology in advance.
I am providing
this to all of my friends and is submitted in friendship.
Best Regards,
Warren
--
/--------------------\ |~~\_____/~~\__ |
|DAVID SCOTT |______ \______====== )-+
|scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~\|~~~ |
\--------------------/ (O)
title: Design Engineer
tel;work: 309-672-7706
tel;fax: 309-672-7753
tel;home: not posted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Sorry David:
correction:
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt
Proposed "Know Your Customer" account profiling and reporting
requirements for "suspicious accounts".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Conway <conwayw(at)ricks.edu> |
I'd like to write a short testimonial on the straight axle landing gear
for the piet. I have the traditional wooden gear with wire cross bracing
with a one inch diameter straight axle mounted in motorcycle wheels with
mechanical brakes. I now have 104 landings on this gear and feel that it
is remarkably strong and effective. Without an dual instruction in a Piet
available, I simply started flying my plane (I have 200 hours tailwheel
time). It's easy to fly but has a pretty high sink rate when the speed
drops off just before tough down and early on I hit pretty darn hard,
probably dropping it from 5 or 6 feet or higher several times attempting
to do 3-pointers. I've had to tighten the wire cross braces once.
Otherwise the gear has taken everything I gave it. Several people at the
local airport that thought I was crazy to build this antique landing gear
system now sing its praise. Although I can three-point it just fine now,
I usually wheel land simply because it is fun and very gentle on the
airframe.
Incidentally, the mechanical brakes won't hold for a runup but are very
adequate otherwise. The plane slows on pavement rather quickly in a
3-point stance. The motorcycle wheels show no signs of strain even though
I never respoked them on a wider hub. I haven't done a lot of cross wind
landings and haven't done a ground loop. In a parking lot I did do
several cookies--tight circles approximating a ground loop. Everything
hung together. Just thought some of you might be interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Hi William:
Could you let us know what motorcycle your wheels are from and what size and
brand of tires that you are successfully using. Thanks. Planning on doing
the same thing.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Frequently Asked Questions about Home-built Aircraft |
Granted that many of the firsts belong to experimental aircraft as a first
time build, but what threw me was the Ryan Aircraft Company was already in
existence building aircraft when that special order came through for one of
their models equiped with long range tanks. Or maybe I'm just missing part
of the story somewhere???
JoeC
>I think many if not most "firsts" belong to experimental aircraft.
>Obviously the Wright Bros. were flying an experimental plane even
>if they didn't bother to give it an N-number! And don't forget that
>the biggest airplane ever built carried an experimental registration
>when it flew (the Spruce Goose, NX37602.)
>
>fishin wrote:
>
>> Funny thing=====while browsing thru an article on the Smithsonian, I see a
>> famous aircraft with the markings "NX211" on it and I ask myself, "was the
>> first solo Atlantic crossing done by an experimental aircraft?" I never
>> realized that before.of course It's the Spirit of St Louis I refer to.
>> JoeC
>
>--
>Alan Davenport gandalf at goldcom dot com
>Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Endicotts <rasala(at)brutus.bright.net> |
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> having this problem
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Endicotts
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: mail
>
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
was received twice at 11:59.
Thanks, Larry.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello Rob,
Thought you may be interested. I have a Piet 85% completed and as they say,
only another 85% to go . It will be Subaru powered, as I do not think the
Model A will cope with Australian temperatures/density altitudes etc, apart
from which,the cost and reliability factor bothers me. I also believe that
Bernard himself would have used the Subaru if it had been available to him.
Any way, I have information on about seven more Piets in Australia.
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com> |
I have been getting all of mine twice for many months.
Doug Hunt
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: mail
> Date: December 9, 1998 9:59 AM
>
> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> having this problem
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Endicotts
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: mail
>
>
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re Discussion about 211 Registration no's. |
I need to get my pix to see what registration # the EAA replica carried.
For a historical note. Lindergh chose Ryan because of its success with
the M-2 Mail plane. First model had an open cockpit. Pilots perceived they
would miss the interaction with the wind if the cockpit was enclosed.
About the Lindbergh registration #'s. Each of the planes he owned had the
211 #. The Lockheed at the Air and Space museum has an NR 211#. IIn one of the
areas of Lambert Municipal Airport ( where he flew with Mo. National Guard,
and Robertson Air Lines) there is an exhibit with another Spirit of St. Louis
replica, and also his Lambert Monocoupe. This has an NL 211#.
I enjoy the news.. My wife thinks that the only e-mail sent here is from
Piet pals. One I had to wade through 54 messages, with subjects all the way
from glue,
type of wood, engines, covering, gear construction, etc. I think it is great
that everyone shares their joys and sorrows! The recent addition of the Piet
lovers from
"Down Under" is great. I have hopes of visiting there, especially Alice
Springs.
For the holiday season some may want to read "The Spirit of St. Louis",
and the "Wartime Journals of Linbergh". There is also a new biography written
by his daughter Reeve. My laste father used to wave to the Long Eagle as he
piloted his DH 4 on the St. Louis - Chicago route, and the old Sprigfield
airfiled was not too farm from the farm he grew up on. Dad also was present
when Lindy visited Spfld. after the successful New York to Paris Flight. He
also was present when the EAA replica visited Spfld on the tour.
Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue Ne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
Thanks William
That's a great testimonial to the gear design! I have widened a set of
motorcycle wheels and retained the brakes. How do you operate yours?
John Mc
To Phil Peck: Hows the swing wing Idea coming? Does any one oout there know
how far the aileron connecting cable travels lateraly from stop to stop?
-----Original Message-----
From: William Conway <conwayw(at)ricks.edu>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear
I'd like to write a short testimonial on the straight axle landing gear for
the piet. I have the traditional wooden gear with wire cross bracing with a
one inch diameter straight axle mounted in motorcycle wheels with mechanical
brakes. I now have 104 landings on this gear and feel that it is remarkably
strong and effective. Without an dual instruction in a Piet available, I
simply started flying my plane (I have 200 hours tailwheel time). It's easy
to fly but has a pretty high sink rate when the speed drops off just before
tough down and early on I hit pretty darn hard, probably dropping it from 5
or 6 feet or higher several times attempting to do 3-pointers. I've had to
tighten the wire cross braces once. Otherwise the gear has taken everything
I gave it. Several people at the local airport that thought I was crazy to
build this antique landing gear system now sing its praise. Although I can
three-point it just fine now, I usually wheel land simply because it is fun
and very gentle on the airframe.
Incidentally, the mechanical brakes won't hold for a runup but are very
adequate otherwise. The plane slows on pavement rather quickly in a 3-point
stance. The motorcycle wheels show no signs of strain even though I never
respoked them on a wider hub. I haven't done a lot of cross wind landings
and haven't done a ground loop. In a parking lot I did do several
cookies--tight circles approximating a ground loop. Everything hung
together. Just thought some of you might be interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
OK on my end, only getting one message.
Gordon
The Endicotts wrote:
> steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> >
> > Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> > happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> > having this problem
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Endicotts
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: mail
> >
> > I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> > on the list twice?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Larry
> Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
> was received twice at 11:59.
> Thanks, Larry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
John Mc, I promised my wife I would only have 15 projects going at a
time and as I promised to help my Dad build a quick stitch and glue
dingy I have reached my project limit. But the boat is going quickly.
I think I am going to build a full size wing out of foam(i have a foam
cutter) out to the strut bracket and then build up a fake center section
. Doesn't have to be pretty just has to have the right sizes. Then
will work on the pivoting spar as it is the only part that will be the
toughest.
phil
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
I have great luck by warming the T-88 in warm water, especially the
hardener. It comes out of the bottle easier, and spreads easier. The
reduction in working time is miniscule with the higher temperature,
especially with the small batches that we use.
Al Swanson
>
>Never use T-88 at any temp lower that 80 degf. It doesn't want to come out
>of the bottle. The wood doesn't matter. Just joking. T-88 claims to
>cure even at almost freezing temperatures. Rule of thumb is if you can
>stand the temperature go for it. jas
>
>>Hmmm. Thats a little tough unless I heat my shop 24 hours a day
>>(ouch). I pretty much only heat it when I am working on the plane (I
>>have done only cutting until now), so the temp in the shop drops to
>>whatever it is outside. Would I be better off moving my operation to
>>my basement for the winter, or biting the bullet and keeping my shop
>>hovering around 65 degrees all winter? Thanks!
>>
>>---John Duprey wrote:
>>>
>>> Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
>>> constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible, when you
>>> get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
>>> using.
>>>
>>> good luck
>>> John Duprey
>>>
>>
>>==
>>http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
>>"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
>>is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
>>not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
William,
Menny thanx! This type of anecdotal information is exactly what we need when
making decisions about our own projects. I had already decided on the
straight axle gear for my Piet, but you reinforced my decision. Thanx,
again.
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re Discussion about 211 Registration no's. |
For you Lindbergh fans,,,Random House has an audiobook called "Lindbergh" by
A. Scott Berg, read by Eric Stoltz (remember him from the Memphis Belle
movie, he was the poet)it is 6 hours long and chronicles from his father
comming to America to Lindy's death.Over the Thanksgiving week I spent some
time in Arkansas. Upon leaving the Chicago area, I started the first tape. 6
hours later and passing thru Missouri I was thoroughly intertained thru it's
completion. My wife who normally takes this opportunity to catch up on her
nap time had me hush up with my comments till the tapes ended. The wife and
I both highly recommend a different kind of book enjoyment.
(suprising how during WW2 he managed some enemy kills as a civilian)
JoeC
> I need to get my pix to see what registration # the EAA replica carried.
>
> For a historical note. Lindergh chose Ryan because of its success with
>the M-2 Mail plane. First model had an open cockpit. Pilots perceived they
>would miss the interaction with the wind if the cockpit was enclosed.
> About the Lindbergh registration #'s. Each of the planes he owned had the
>211 #. The Lockheed at the Air and Space museum has an NR 211#. IIn one of the
>areas of Lambert Municipal Airport ( where he flew with Mo. National Guard,
>and Robertson Air Lines) there is an exhibit with another Spirit of St. Louis
>replica, and also his Lambert Monocoupe. This has an NL 211#.
> I enjoy the news.. My wife thinks that the only e-mail sent here is from
>Piet pals. One I had to wade through 54 messages, with subjects all the way
>from glue,
>type of wood, engines, covering, gear construction, etc. I think it is great
>that everyone shares their joys and sorrows! The recent addition of the Piet
>lovers from
>"Down Under" is great. I have hopes of visiting there, especially Alice
>Springs.
> For the holiday season some may want to read "The Spirit of St. Louis",
>and the "Wartime Journals of Linbergh". There is also a new biography written
>by his daughter Reeve. My laste father used to wave to the Long Eagle as he
>piloted his DH 4 on the St. Louis - Chicago route, and the old Sprigfield
>airfiled was not too farm from the farm he grew up on. Dad also was present
>when Lindy visited Spfld. after the successful New York to Paris Flight. He
>also was present when the EAA replica visited Spfld on the tour.
> Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue Ne
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
OK here Steevee !! Only getting one message.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | What's wrong here? |
I bought a partially completed project with the fuselage completed. It is the
long fuselage version and the seats, skins, bulkheads, etc are all together.
As far as I can tell, everything is to the plans. I just got the control stick
mechanism built (to the plans) and it won't fit in the airplane!
I can not get it down between the seats, with all of the welded bits and
pieces on it. I wound up cutting the main torque tube in two and fabricating a
splice out of 4130 tubing. (It goes down in there great in two pieces!)
Is this normal or do I have something really weird here?
Is this part supposed to be built into the partially completed fuselage?
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Hi Crew
This is definitely NOT piet related!, but I thought it may be of
interest. I have two drogue 'chutes from Martin-Baker Mk IVb ejection
seats ex. RAAF DH Vampire A79-663. If there is anyone who want's
them,they're yours for the postage.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Peter
Thanks. Which subaru version? And where did you start on the
airframe. Any idea of current AUD $costs? (Spruce etc.) And do you
use the SAAA inspection system? How long have you spent on the
project so far?
Can you tell I'm a little green at this game?!
Regards
Rob
,
>
> Thought you may be interested. I have a Piet 85% completed and as they say,
> only another 85% to go . It will be Subaru powered, as I do not think the
> Model A will cope with Australian temperatures/density altitudes etc, apart
> from which,the cost and reliability factor bothers me. I also believe that
> Bernard himself would have used the Subaru if it had been available to him.
> Any way, I have information on about seven more Piets in Australia.
> Peter.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re Discussion about 211 Registration no's. |
> For you Lindbergh fans,,,Random House has an audiobook called "Lindbergh" by
> A. Scott Berg, read by Eric Stoltz
For the real story of the Alantic flight you have to read Lindberg's own book,
"The Spirit of St. Louis". I checked it out of our local library and found it
a facinating account.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>For the real story of the Alantic flight you have to read Lindberg's own
book, "The Spirit of St. Louis". I checked it out of our local library and
found it a facinating account.
>
>Scott
Scott- You are sure right about this ! I remember 20 years ago going
to our high school library on my free periods and just absorbing that
book little by little. It was like sitting in the cockpit with Lindbergh.
The other kids thought I was nuts.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" <carmen(at)cana.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What's wrong here? |
I had the same problem, but I thought that it was because I had lowered
the seat a bit. In fact, I simply cut a small wedge out of the rear
seat frame so that I could slip the torque tube down. A small plate was
then added to the front of the seat frame. I think that there is a
progression in building, and my guess is that the tube is supposed to be
attached to the floor before adding the other stuff.
-Carmen
Seibert wrote:
>
> I bought a partially completed project with the fuselage completed. It is the
> long fuselage version and the seats, skins, bulkheads, etc are all together.
> As far as I can tell, everything is to the plans. I just got the control stick
> mechanism built (to the plans) and it won't fit in the airplane!
> I can not get it down between the seats, with all of the welded bits and
> pieces on it. I wound up cutting the main torque tube in two and fabricating
a
> splice out of 4130 tubing. (It goes down in there great in two pieces!)
> Is this normal or do I have something really weird here?
> Is this part supposed to be built into the partially completed fuselage?
> Bob Seibert
--
----------------------
Mr. Carmen A. Natalie
President
CA Natalie Associates, Inc
CANA WebSystems
100 State Street Suite 1040
Albany, New York 12207
http://www.cana.com
phone 518.436.4932
fax 518.436.4933
----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vampire Stuff |
Yes, would love one for my collection.
Gordon
Rob Hart wrote:
> Hi Crew
>
> This is definitely NOT piet related!, but I thought it may be of
> interest. I have two drogue 'chutes from Martin-Baker Mk IVb ejection
> seats ex. RAAF DH Vampire A79-663. If there is anyone who want's
> them,they're yours for the postage.
> Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Vampire Stuff |
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> Subject: Re: Vampire Stuff
> Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
> Yes, would love one for my collection.
>
> Gordon
>
Gordon
Let me know where to parcel it to, and It'll be on its way.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Mike:
Have also been an "airplane geek" since high school. Paid $1200.00 for a
Piper Vagabond instead of a car my Senior year and was absorbed in Lindbergh.
He is buried in the church yard cemetery of a small church in Heavenly Hana
on the island of Maui, Hawaii, that has a beautiful cliffside view of the sea.
Have also visited the channel island of Sark where he took his family after the
kidnapping. He put in his own airstrip and planted a long row of trees for a
windbreak that is still there. His W.W.II escapades as a P-38 factory flyer
are pretty exciting too. And his later years as a scientist and south sea
island anthropologist are pretty neat too. Enough.
Best Regards,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vampire Stuff |
Thanks
Address being sent via private mail.
Let me know the cost when you get the numbers.
Gordon
Rob Hart wrote:
> > From: Gordon Brimhall
> > Subject: Re: Vampire Stuff
> > Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
>
> > Yes, would love one for my collection.
> >
> > Gordon
> >
>
> Gordon
>
> Let me know where to parcel it to, and It'll be on its way.
>
> Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Conway <conwayw(at)ricks.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear |
John, I operate my brakes--mechanical--a lot like you might guess, with
cables. The key part, of course, is where to locate the pedals in a
limited space. I located them close to my heels to the inside--just about
half way between the bulkhead and the front edge of the passenger seat. I
have to cock my heels inward a bit but am able to keep my feet on both
rudder pedals while applying the brakes. The cables come straight back
along the floor and have the major curve of the cable outside as they head
to plastic ties along the rear wooden gear support. This is easy to do
since I did not cover the plywood floor with fabric on the outside. This
also allows easy inspection of all bolts in the torque tube.
>>> John McNarry 12/09 7:34 PM >>>
Thanks William
That's a great testimonial to the gear design! I have widened a set of
motorcycle wheels and retained the brakes. How do you operate yours?
John Mc
To Phil Peck: Hows the swing wing Idea coming? Does any one oout there
know
how far the aileron connecting cable travels lateraly from stop to stop?
-----Original Message-----
From: William Conway <conwayw(at)ricks.edu>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear
I'd like to write a short testimonial on the straight axle landing gear
for
the piet. I have the traditional wooden gear with wire cross bracing with
a
one inch diameter straight axle mounted in motorcycle wheels with
mechanical
brakes. I now have 104 landings on this gear and feel that it is
remarkably
strong and effective. Without an dual instruction in a Piet available, I
simply started flying my plane (I have 200 hours tailwheel time). It's
easy
to fly but has a pretty high sink rate when the speed drops off just
before
tough down and early on I hit pretty darn hard, probably dropping it from
5
or 6 feet or higher several times attempting to do 3-pointers. I've had
to
tighten the wire cross braces once. Otherwise the gear has taken
everything
I gave it. Several people at the local airport that thought I was crazy
to
build this antique landing gear system now sing its praise. Although I
can
three-point it just fine now, I usually wheel land simply because it is
fun
and very gentle on the airframe.
Incidentally, the mechanical brakes won't hold for a runup but are very
adequate otherwise. The plane slows on pavement rather quickly in a
3-point
stance. The motorcycle wheels show no signs of strain even though I never
respoked them on a wider hub. I haven't done a lot of cross wind landings
and haven't done a ground loop. In a parking lot I did do several
cookies--tight circles approximating a ground loop. Everything hung
together. Just thought some of you might be interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Streamlining round tubing |
Hi,
I was wondering if any of you have seen any articles on streamlining round
tubing? I'm using round 4130 for mu struts and will need to streamline
them at some point. One of the local RAA members here said that he
recently read an article on this in one of the magazines but could not
remember which one. Anyone else out there remember seeing such an article?
Thanks,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Ken:
See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped balsa
former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
painted.
Good luck.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Hi,
I know what you mean. I had my gliders license on my 16th b'day and
private on my 17th. I finally got my drivers license when I was 19! I had
no real reason to have a drivers license at home and when I moved to TO
for university, I had no access to a car. It wasn't until my > He is buried
in the church yard cemetery of a small church in Heavenly Hana
> on the island of Maui, Hawaii, that has a beautiful cliffside view of the sea.
> Have also visited the channel island of Sark where he took his family after the
> kidnapping. He put in his own airstrip and planted a long row of trees for a
> windbreak that is still there. His W.W.II escapades as a P-38 factory flyer
> are pretty exciting too. And his later years as a scientist and south sea
> island anthropologist are pretty neat too. Enough.
> Best Regards,
> Warren
>
On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Warren Shoun wrote:
> Hi Mike:
> Have also been an "airplane geek" since high school. Paid $1200.00 for a
> Piper Vagabond instead of a car my Senior year and was absorbed in Lindbergh.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
This isn't a duplicate, the first one got mangled due to a finger fumble.
On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Beanlands wrote:
Hi,
I know what you mean. I had my gliders license on my 16th b'day and
private on my 17th. I finally got my drivers license when I was 19! I had
no real reason to have a drivers license at home and when I moved to TO
for university, I had no access to a car. It wasn't until my first summer
job that I required a license and finally got one.
Ken
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Warren Shoun wrote:
>
> > Hi Mike:
> > Have also been an "airplane geek" since high school. Paid $1200.00 for
a
> > Piper Vagabond instead of a car my Senior year and was absorbed in Lindbergh.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
> See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped
balsa
>former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
>painted.
A local builder did something much like this on a modified Heath
parasol--his
third plane, the first having been a Piet! He used insulating foam instead
of
balsa, coated it lightly with epoxy, and wrapped with the (non-sticky)
fiberglass
tape used to cover joints in sheetrock. The result weighed virtually
nothing,
and you wouldn't believe the rigidity.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Hi Owen:
Great creative alternative. Bet it didn't cost much either. Thanks for
another "note" for my shop notebook. I think this is the true use of this chat
line.
Best Regards,
Warren
Owen Davies wrote:
> > See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped
> balsa
> >former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
> >painted.
>
> A local builder did something much like this on a modified Heath
> parasol--his
> third plane, the first having been a Piet! He used insulating foam instead
> of
> balsa, coated it lightly with epoxy, and wrapped with the (non-sticky)
> fiberglass
> tape used to cover joints in sheetrock. The result weighed virtually
> nothing,
> and you wouldn't believe the rigidity.
>
> Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
I just got off the phone with the EAA and sprung for the $6.95 to buy this
1933 Glider and Flying Manual. I've heard so much about it I decided to
see what all the fuss was about ;-).
Thanks,
Ken
On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Warren Shoun wrote:
> Hi Owen:
> Great creative alternative. Bet it didn't cost much either. Thanks for
> another "note" for my shop notebook. I think this is the true use of this chat
> line.
> Best Regards,
> Warren
>
> Owen Davies wrote:
>
> > > See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped
> > balsa
> > >former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
> > >painted.
> >
> > A local builder did something much like this on a modified Heath
> > parasol--his
> > third plane, the first having been a Piet! He used insulating foam instead
> > of
> > balsa, coated it lightly with epoxy, and wrapped with the (non-sticky)
> > fiberglass
> > tape used to cover joints in sheetrock. The result weighed virtually
> > nothing,
> > and you wouldn't believe the rigidity.
> >
> > Owen Davies
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TLC62770(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
I have my shop insulated very well . the walls have a R-20 , the ceciling has
a R - 39 . My barn is very cold here in mid Mich. during the winter . So I put
in a wolminized floor that is insulated with water proof blown in type
insulation and a 1 in. thich stirifom sheet on top then I placed a sheet of
5/8 plywood on that and screwed it to the wood on the bottom . so - now the
floor has a R -16 . Most of the stuff I used came from construction sites , it
was laying in the junk pile . all i had to do was ask for thier junk . I heat
my 24 x 18 shop for pennys now . it took me about 1 1/2 years to get all the
stuff togethter for the project . Most everything in the shop came from junk
piles or yard sales . My flor sense lites are throw -aways with new bulbs in
them . We have the imkproved ribs made now and are starting to lay out the
fuelage within the next couple of weeks . The Corvair engine has been totally
rebuilt with duel plugs and mags . the prop is being made this spring by a
good friend that has built many prop's for other people . We hope to have it
completed by 2000 .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
>I just got off the phone with the EAA and sprung for the $6.95 to buy this
>1933 Glider and Flying Manual. I've heard so much about it I decided to
>see what all the fuss was about ;-).
>
Great series of reprints (1929 to 1933) in fact the last plane plans (Ramsey
Flying Bathtub) of the 1932 issue is the "inspiration" for my project...
Just cant wait to finish the new wings.
These books are FULL with great literature, (1929 issue includes a complete
5 lesson flying course :-) that includes aerobatic manuvers!! great dreaming
literture for the wannabe pilot.
I guarantee that all of you will ENJOY reading them.
Saludos
---------------
initial testing!=09
--------------
Delegado Regional FEMEDA-FAI | 1,835 VW 2 place "modified" 1932 Ramsey=
Bathtub
ggower(at)informador.com.mx | FAI Legal Ultralight (224 Kg dry) (90%=
finished)
Guadalajara, Jalisco, MEXICO |--Next project:-) HM-380 Flying Flea in=
1999(?)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flying WWP (Wife & Weather Permited) from:
Aerodromo "Paco Yerena" in Chapala: Alt 4,997' ASL N 20=BA18.610' W=
103=BA09.606'
(Grass) Main Strip 14/32 700 mts (2,300'Long 60'W) CT: PAK 123.45
For Ultralights and light planes only. Right pattern to 14 (flying over town=
forbidden) IMPORTANT: check Altitude ASL & power available for take off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Ken,
If nothing else, you will have several good laughs caused by Bernard's sense
of
humor in his writing.
The great information about the Piet is pretty interesting too!
Best Regards,
Warren
Ken Beanlands wrote:
> I just got off the phone with the EAA and sprung for the $6.95 to buy this
> 1933 Glider and Flying Manual. I've heard so much about it I decided to
> see what all the fuss was about ;-).
>
> Thanks,
> Ken
>
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Warren Shoun wrote:
>
> > Hi Owen:
> > Great creative alternative. Bet it didn't cost much either. Thanks for
> > another "note" for my shop notebook. I think this is the true use of this
chat
> > line.
> > Best Regards,
> > Warren
> >
> > Owen Davies wrote:
> >
> > > > See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped
> > > balsa
> > > >former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
> > > >painted.
> > >
> > > A local builder did something much like this on a modified Heath
> > > parasol--his
> > > third plane, the first having been a Piet! He used insulating foam instead
> > > of
> > > balsa, coated it lightly with epoxy, and wrapped with the (non-sticky)
> > > fiberglass
> > > tape used to cover joints in sheetrock. The result weighed virtually
> > > nothing,
> > > and you wouldn't believe the rigidity.
> > >
> > > Owen Davies
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Group...
Back in about 1954, Jimmy Stewart played C. Lindbergh in a pretty good, if
somewhat "Hollwoody" movie called "The Spirit of St. Louis." It's definitely
worth seeing, and can easily become part of one's film library, on tape.
Don C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
So, is there more than one Flying and Glider manual? In other words,
should I have ordered everything from 1929 to 1933 or just there or is it
all in one?
Thanks,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Rally round the Design! |
Our discussion about the Lone Eagle reminds me that Minnestoa also produced
another person who contributed to the promotion of aviation in the US..
Let's mount a campaign to have a Piet in the Air and Space Museum in
Washington.,along with some info on Bernard Pietenpol. What other design has
lasted through the years? GooneyBirds are still going strong, but they appear
in '36.
Put this on the Broadhead agenda people.
Dr. O Lanham, Bellevue Ne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
I ordered mine on monday. Not a bad price for plans to built 5 or more airplanes.
That is if you can read the fine print.
How many pages are in it anyway?
Gordon
Ken Beanlands wrote:
> I just got off the phone with the EAA and sprung for the $6.95 to buy this
> 1933 Glider and Flying Manual. I've heard so much about it I decided to
> see what all the fuss was about ;-).
>
> Thanks,
> Ken
>
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Warren Shoun wrote:
>
> > Hi Owen:
> > Great creative alternative. Bet it didn't cost much either. Thanks for
> > another "note" for my shop notebook. I think this is the true use of this
chat
> > line.
> > Best Regards,
> > Warren
> >
> > Owen Davies wrote:
> >
> > > > See page 15 of the 1933 Flying & Glider Manual. It shows a shaped
> > > balsa
> > > >former on the back side of the tube & covered with pinked tape, doped and
> > > >painted.
> > >
> > > A local builder did something much like this on a modified Heath
> > > parasol--his
> > > third plane, the first having been a Piet! He used insulating foam instead
> > > of
> > > balsa, coated it lightly with epoxy, and wrapped with the (non-sticky)
> > > fiberglass
> > > tape used to cover joints in sheetrock. The result weighed virtually
> > > nothing,
> > > and you wouldn't believe the rigidity.
> > >
> > > Owen Davies
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Ken,
The 1932 Manual has 24 pages, by Bernard, on the Air Camper. In addition
are several other articles that I personally found to be helpful. For
example, on page 35 of an article of the "Powell P-H Racer" is a beautiful
drawing and description of a straight axle landing gear that helped me a
great deal in understanding the same idea on the Piet, which frankly left
some details for you to determine.
The 1933 Manual has 22 pages, again by Bernard, on the Sky Scout. In
Bernard's own words "There are a lot of improvements in these prints that
will also be a great help to you if you are building the Air Camper", which I
would agree with whole heartedly.
The Piet plans are good, and these writings by "Mr. Pietenpol" himself
are both extremely helpful and immensely entertaining. And cheap at twice
the price. If you are going to build a Piet, get them. (No Opinion Here!)
Best Regards,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Gordon,
The 32 Manual is 72 pages long and the 33 Manual is 76 pages...and yes, you
do need
your "good pair" to read some of the fine print.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
> If nothing else, you will have several good laughs caused by Bernard's
sense of
>humor in his writing.
Actually, that piece is generally attributed to Westy Farmer, the editor,
who then signed Mr. Pietenpol's name to it. I've heard that The Founder
wincedat the writing, which he found a bit garish for hbis taste, but do
not know how accurate that is.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Gary Gower wrote:
> Great series of reprints (1929 to 1933) in fact the last plane plans (Ramsey
> Flying Bathtub) of the 1932 issue is the "inspiration" for my project...
> Just cant wait to finish the new wings.
>
What are you building? Bathtub or Piet?
I almost ordered all 5 of them but then thought I would see what one was like first.
I was their at EAA in June but just did not see them or I would of bought one then
as I have an original 1930 Project book with glider plans and like reading old
books, even if they are reprints.
Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
> Group...
> Back in about 1954, Jimmy Stewart played C. Lindbergh in a pretty good, if
> somewhat "Hollwoody" movie called "The Spirit of St. Louis." It's
> definitely
> worth seeing, and can easily become part of one's film library, on tape.
> Don C.
>
I love that movie! Whenever it is on the tube, my son and I have to sit and
watch it. In fact it was after seeing it again on TV that I checked out
Linbergh's book out of the library.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Warren
Thanks
I am looking forward to receiving it. I sent email asking about the 2-3 weeks for
shipping
they advertise and the nice person who answered said really it is 7 to 10 days
in most
cases.
Gordon
Warren Shoun wrote:
> Gordon,
> The 32 Manual is 72 pages long and the 33 Manual is 76 pages...and yes, you
do need
> your "good pair" to read some of the fine print.
> Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
>Group...
>Back in about 1954, Jimmy Stewart played C. Lindbergh in a pretty good, if
>somewhat "Hollwoody" movie called "The Spirit of St. Louis." It's definitely
>worth seeing, and can easily become part of one's film library, on tape.
>Don C.
>
A couple of years ago I tried to find a copy of this film and couldnt find
it (for VHS corder)...
Will like to find one.
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing |
Richard:
I submit that I am no Aircraft building expert, in fact you are ahead
of me as I am just starting to build my rib jig. However I have been a
wood-worker (Amature and later professional) most of the last 18 years.
I Don't know about your( or any one else who may read this ) experience
in wood working so I will start kind of basic and If this is stuff you
allready know please bare with me, I hope you and others reading this
will be able to take me in "baby steps" through some of the metal
fabrication and other steps I will encounter in my journey.
Wood is a fiber and is made to transport moisture through the tree. When
the wood experiences sudden temprature or humidity changes it expands
and or contracts. this effect will be stabelised later in the project
when airframe is varnished which will seal the wood from absorbing
moisture.
The only real problems you would encounter bringing shop heat up and
down during construction would be movement of the wood wile joints are
drying, as the spruce will expand & contract more than the plywood. I
would reccomend one of two things either don't heat your shop wile you
work (not the fun choice for winter in New England) or move inside for
the winter might be more conducive to working. Avoiding rapid climate
changes is the key. I am starting with the ribs now (in the house) as
an alternitave to waiting till spring for this very reason becouse I
can't afford to heat my barn 24 hours a day all winter.
Either way keep building and have fun, hope you will be able to give me
help along the way as you are a few steps ahead of me.
John Duprey
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> Hmmm. Thats a little tough unless I heat my shop 24 hours a day
> (ouch). I pretty much only heat it when I am working on the plane (I
> have done only cutting until now), so the temp in the shop drops to
> whatever it is outside. Would I be better off moving my operation to
> my basement for the winter, or biting the bullet and keeping my shop
> hovering around 65 degrees all winter? Thanks!
>
> ---John Duprey wrote:
> >
> > Richard: You should try to keep the wood stored in an area of near
> > constant temp and as close to constant humididy as posssible, when you
> > get wood always give it a few days in your shop to stabelize before
> > using.
> >
> > good luck
> > John Duprey
> >
>
> ==
> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
The complete series is five great magazines, some real oldtimer solutions as
using car wheels spokes as turnbuckes (sp?), there are several real
homebuilder ideas (I think the only "kit" of that time was the Heath
Parasol... Maybe some other.
All was homemade with available things, some obsolete, eye brous (sp?)
raising UNSAFE under todays standards, but real "make you think" ideas.
Saludos
Gary Gower
>So, is there more than one Flying and Glider manual? In other words,
>should I have ordered everything from 1929 to 1933 or just there or is it
>all in one?
>
>Thanks,
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing-part two... |
Well, I warmed the shop & the wood (T-88 was in the house, so it was
warm anyway) and glued rib #13 at room temp. I hadnt thought of it
before, but the rib is now "drying" in the shop, which is by now at 32
degrees or below, which is the outside temp (I finished glueing 5
hours ago). Is that a problem, or is it ok for it to DRY at that temp,
or am I being paranoid? This is my first plane, and my Tony B. book
hasnt arrived yet (why dont it get here?!), so thanks for humoring me.
This group is great! I cant imagine building a plane without this
support group.
Richard
---TLC62770(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have my shop insulated very well . the walls have a R-20 , the
ceciling has
> a R - 39 . My barn is very cold here in mid Mich. during the winter
. So I put
> in a wolminized floor that is insulated with water proof blown in type
> insulation and a 1 in. thich stirifom sheet on top then I placed a
sheet of
> 5/8 plywood on that and screwed it to the wood on the bottom . so -
now the
> floor has a R -16 . Most of the stuff I used came from construction
sites , it
> was laying in the junk pile . all i had to do was ask for thier junk
. I heat
> my 24 x 18 shop for pennys now . it took me about 1 1/2 years to get
all the
> stuff togethter for the project . Most everything in the shop came
from junk
> piles or yard sales . My flor sense lites are throw -aways with new
bulbs in
> them . We have the imkproved ribs made now and are starting to lay
out the
> fuelage within the next couple of weeks . The Corvair engine has
been totally
> rebuilt with duel plugs and mags . the prop is being made this
spring by a
> good friend that has built many prop's for other people . We hope to
have it
> completed by 2000 .
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
>
>
>Gary Gower wrote:
>
>> Great series of reprints (1929 to 1933) in fact the last plane plans (Ramsey
>> Flying Bathtub) of the 1932 issue is the "inspiration" for my project...
>> Just cant wait to finish the new wings.
>>
>
>What are you building? Bathtub or Piet?
>
>I almost ordered all 5 of them but then thought I would see what one was
like first.
>I was their at EAA in June but just did not see them or I would of bought
one then
>as I have an original 1930 Project book with glider plans and like reading old
>books, even if they are reprints.
>
>Gordon
I am building the Ramsey B'tub, I love the Piet since the late 80's, but
with our altitude (4,997 ft ASL)..., at that time the Model A was
underpowered, and the only other option was the C-85, here aircraft engines
are REALLY expensive and rare, also there is no Corvair engines left (looked
around several months and couldnt find one).
I was a Hang glider pilot, so going to Trikes was kind of automatic, and as
a VW mechanic (It paid my High School and College equivalent) I built the VW
engine convertion first, just for the fun of it.
The Piet will not fly with one (maybe was was expesive to give it a try and
fail), so the only "light wing loading" two seater alternative I found was
the Tub... Now I am building new wings (lighter loading and are ready to
cover) with 2 more feet of span to get better performance (kind of
motorglider floating) with a Riblet GA airfoil, the original ones (as the
plans) were never finished (by the way I am using the Piet's aleirons system).
Some years later I was lucky enough to get in touch with Mr. Lubitz
(Canadian Conversion for the Escort) but the Tub's fuselage was almost
finished so I continued with it.
Any how, I love the PIET, is a great plane for a more friendly altitude
ASL.... Maybe someday I will build one, at least get a ride in one, I have
only been at Sun & Fun (2 years ago) and had no luck to find one :-( to see
a real one.
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wing construction (on L.E.) |
Hello Piet'n Pals,
I am now ready to begin building my wing, and plan on using the one piece
wing. I have limited space, and it's too cold outside, so, my challenge is
to build it in my living room, standing up on the leading edge. I can extend
about 1 1/2 feet of the wing out through the back door, to the enclosed back
porch. I plan on using a sheet of plywood, ripped into 2' X 8' pieces, to put
on the floor, on top of the tarp. This should give a good platform on top of
the carpet. Then make five vertical 2 X 4's, with 2 horizontal arms to
support the spars. I'll adjust the height to keep the leading edge about a
foot off the floor, and keep everything level and square.
After all the wood work, and rigging is done, I think I might be able to cover
it in the same attitude, if I use the hardpoints (struts & cabane) to support
the wing.
So...I ask you. Has anyone ever done, or heard of it done this way? Is this
an example of insanity, or just another homebuilders method to overcome
construction challenges?
Chuck
p.s. I don't have a wife.
________________________________________________________________________________
I was fortunate enough to tape it off tv a while back, on a station
that didnt have commercials. Now I watch it about once every week or
two!
---Gary Gower wrote:
>
> >Group...
> >Back in about 1954, Jimmy Stewart played C. Lindbergh in a pretty
good, if
> >somewhat "Hollwoody" movie called "The Spirit of St. Louis." It's
definitely
> >worth seeing, and can easily become part of one's film library, on
tape.
> >Don C.
> >
>
> A couple of years ago I tried to find a copy of this film and
couldnt find
> it (for VHS corder)...
>
> Will like to find one.
>
> Saludos
>
> Gary Gower
>
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Gary Gower wrote:
> >
> >
> >Gary Gower wrote:
> >
> >> Great series of reprints (1929 to 1933) in fact the last plane plans (Ramsey
> >> Flying Bathtub) of the 1932 issue is the "inspiration" for my project...
> >> Just cant wait to finish the new wings.
> >>
> >
> >What are you building? Bathtub or Piet?
> >
> >I almost ordered all 5 of them but then thought I would see what one was
> like first.
> >I was their at EAA in June but just did not see them or I would of bought
> one then
> >as I have an original 1930 Project book with glider plans and like reading old
> >books, even if they are reprints.
> >
> >Gordon
>
> I am building the Ramsey B'tub, I love the Piet since the late 80's, but
> with our altitude (4,997 ft ASL)..., at that time the Model A was
> underpowered, and the only other option was the C-85, here aircraft engines
> are REALLY expensive and rare, also there is no Corvair engines left (looked
> around several months and couldnt find one).
>
> I was a Hang glider pilot, so going to Trikes was kind of automatic, and as
> a VW mechanic (It paid my High School and College equivalent) I built the VW
> engine convertion first, just for the fun of it.
>
> The Piet will not fly with one (maybe was was expesive to give it a try and
> fail), so the only "light wing loading" two seater alternative I found was
> the Tub... Now I am building new wings (lighter loading and are ready to
> cover) with 2 more feet of span to get better performance (kind of
> motorglider floating) with a Riblet GA airfoil, the original ones (as the
> plans) were never finished (by the way I am using the Piet's aleirons system).
>
> Some years later I was lucky enough to get in touch with Mr. Lubitz
> (Canadian Conversion for the Escort) but the Tub's fuselage was almost
> finished so I continued with it.
>
> Any how, I love the PIET, is a great plane for a more friendly altitude
> ASL.... Maybe someday I will build one, at least get a ride in one, I have
> only been at Sun & Fun (2 years ago) and had no luck to find one :-( to see
> a real one.
>
> Saludos
>
> Gary Gower
Gary
Well I can almost picture the Bathtub as I seen it years ago but will have to wait
tell my Glider & Flying Manual gets here.
I don't know when I will start building a Real Piet. I have plans coming from
RagWing Aviation for the RW1 Ultra Piet, RW2 Special Pitts Biplane and the RW8/11
Series where I can build Piper Vagabond, Colt, J-3 Taildraggers or Tri all, wrapped
up into one set I think. I traded Roger a Computer for the plans as his old
computer broke down. The plans were shipped to me last week sometime and I can't
wait to get them.
So where do you live? I am in So. Calif in the High Desert on 2.6 acres. Not quite
large enough for a runway but I have thought about it. 407' would be my biggest
strip. Now if the lady (Vacant Owner) behind me would sell me her property I would
have 800 ft to play with but after writing her twice in the past 9 years I get
no
answer. Property next door may be for sale as the older lady, we call her Mom was
taken up north and put into a rest home, so that would give us 300' x 407 to add
to
our 300'x407' Still short in the direction we need.
Well if you have a small picture of the bathTub you could email it to me.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Lindbergh Discussion |
Hi Guys:
I am a Linbergh fan also.
I am holding in my hand a video of "The Spirit of St. Louis"
1957 Color 137 min Warner Brothers Home Video"Screen-Legends"
Collection. I like this movie and for Hollywood they did a pretty good
job of sticking to the book.
If you can find it get the book "The Spirit of Ryan" Tells the story
behind the company and there planes and the building of the NYP "The
Spirit of St. Louis" Wich I learned was not the only NYP built! After
Lindbergh's Flight a Japanese Newspaper orderd one Just like Lindbergh's
For a Trans-Pacific Flight, it was built and deliverd to Japan but the
flight was never attempted.
Another interesting fact, The wheels you see on the "spirit" today In
the Air and Space Musieum are not the originals that wwere on it for the
paris flight, these are wider & larger diameter. The originals are in
the Fuselage behind the seat. The wheels on it are the ones used for his
Cross country tour of America after returning from Paris. When the plane
was donated to the Smithsonian the put the Paris flight wheels back on,
In towing to the Musieum the bearing kept overheating as they were lubed
with oil instead of grease to save weight (afterall they only ahd to
land once) During the tow the gear kept catching on fire. So they swaped
wheels and never put the originals back.
If you can...get the book has lots of neat facts like these.
Happy Holidays
John Duprey
NX-211 is still on the original plane, but yes the registration # does
belong to the Eaa replica.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hello Piet'n Pals,
> I am now ready to begin building my wing, and plan on using the one piece
> wing. I have limited space, and it's too cold outside, so, my challenge is
> to build it in my living room, standing up on the leading edge. I can extend
> about 1 1/2 feet of the wing out through the back door, to the enclosed back
> porch. I plan on using a sheet of plywood, ripped into 2' X 8' pieces, to put
> on the floor, on top of the tarp. This should give a good platform on top of
> the carpet. Then make five vertical 2 X 4's, with 2 horizontal arms to
> support the spars. I'll adjust the height to keep the leading edge about a
> foot off the floor, and keep everything level and square.
> After all the wood work, and rigging is done, I think I might be able to cover
> it in the same attitude, if I use the hardpoints (struts & cabane) to support
> the wing.
> So...I ask you. Has anyone ever done, or heard of it done this way? Is this
> an example of insanity, or just another homebuilders method to overcome
> construction challenges?
>
> Chuck
>
> p.s. I don't have a wife.
You sound like a boat builder to me Chuck, and not having a wife makes it easier
to make those decisions. I used to work out in garage all nite and crash on the
old couch when I was single. 31 yrs ago. Now I am retired and on new property with
no nice garage as of yet, only two 10' x 14' sheds and they are cold. I am getting
ready to start a plane and will probably make my ribs in the house. I could use
the Den I think it is 15' but that is not enough for even my Ultra Piet for a one
piece wing.
I know nothing about the building jig setup for the real piet so I can't guide
you. I am sure some of the other builders can tell you which is a good way to go.
Anyway have fun and don't get Pizza Sauce drippings on the wood.
Only thing better in Life than building an Airplane is Building two Airplanes.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing-part two... |
Richard
Did you glue any test pieces as you glued the ribs last nite? would be
interesting to see how they perform after drying. I will not have any nice
warm place either if I get that far on my plane this winter. T-88 seems to
be the most used glue? Where are you buying yours and at what price?
BTW I really like your web site. If I said that before don't let your head
swell again:-)
Thanks
Gordon
Richard DeCosta wrote:
> Well, I warmed the shop & the wood (T-88 was in the house, so it was
> warm anyway) and glued rib #13 at room temp. I hadnt thought of it
> before, but the rib is now "drying" in the shop, which is by now at 32
> degrees or below, which is the outside temp (I finished glueing 5
> hours ago). Is that a problem, or is it ok for it to DRY at that temp,
> or am I being paranoid? This is my first plane, and my Tony B. book
> hasnt arrived yet (why dont it get here?!), so thanks for humoring me.
> This group is great! I cant imagine building a plane without this
> support group.
>
> Richard
>
> ---TLC62770(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > I have my shop insulated very well . the walls have a R-20 , the
> ceciling has
> > a R - 39 . My barn is very cold here in mid Mich. during the winter
> . So I put
> > in a wolminized floor that is insulated with water proof blown in type
> > insulation and a 1 in. thich stirifom sheet on top then I placed a
> sheet of
> > 5/8 plywood on that and screwed it to the wood on the bottom . so -
> now the
> > floor has a R -16 . Most of the stuff I used came from construction
> sites , it
> > was laying in the junk pile . all i had to do was ask for thier junk
> . I heat
> > my 24 x 18 shop for pennys now . it took me about 1 1/2 years to get
> all the
> > stuff togethter for the project . Most everything in the shop came
> from junk
> > piles or yard sales . My flor sense lites are throw -aways with new
> bulbs in
> > them . We have the imkproved ribs made now and are starting to lay
> out the
> > fuelage within the next couple of weeks . The Corvair engine has
> been totally
> > rebuilt with duel plugs and mags . the prop is being made this
> spring by a
> > good friend that has built many prop's for other people . We hope to
> have it
> > completed by 2000 .
> >
>
> ==
> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
The primary consideration for building the wing is to keep everything in one plane
(no pun intended). As I recall there is no wash out for the Piet wing so the idea
is to keep all the ribs at the same location up and down (in your case for and
aft) on the spar. If you build the one piece wing the way it shows in the plans,
you can build the entire wing in two panels and splice it after it is assembled.
I
wouldn't use the type splicce shown in the plans, I'd use a standard scarf splice.
Since the center section is in compression, the original splice is OK but I don't
care for the idea of carriage bolts and nails holding it together. If you do it
in
two pieces and then splice it, do you have room to assemble in the more
conventional horizontal method?
One further note: If you don't have to spray on a verticle surface, DON"T. It's
much easier to paint on horizontal surfaces. After the wing is covered, set it
up
on horses to paint. Likewise when you are going to spray the fuselage, make a jig
to rotate the fuselage. Painting will be much easier.
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hello Piet'n Pals,
> I am now ready to begin building my wing, and plan on using the one piece
> wing. I have limited space, and it's too cold outside, so, my challenge is
> to build it in my living room, standing up on the leading edge. I can extend
> about 1 1/2 feet of the wing out through the back door, to the enclosed back
> porch. I plan on using a sheet of plywood, ripped into 2' X 8' pieces, to put
> on the floor, on top of the tarp. This should give a good platform on top of
> the carpet. Then make five vertical 2 X 4's, with 2 horizontal arms to
> support the spars. I'll adjust the height to keep the leading edge about a
> foot off the floor, and keep everything level and square.
> After all the wood work, and rigging is done, I think I might be able to cover
> it in the same attitude, if I use the hardpoints (struts & cabane) to support
> the wing.
> So...I ask you. Has anyone ever done, or heard of it done this way? Is this
> an example of insanity, or just another homebuilders method to overcome
> construction challenges?
>
> Chuck
>
> p.s. I don't have a wife.
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
Rt. 3 Box 13
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Nolan <nv_nolan(at)apollo.commnet.edu> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
>The primary consideration for building the wing is to keep everything in
one plane
>(no pun intended). As I recall there is no wash out for the Piet wing
Chuck- I built my Piet in my living and dinning room (with no wife)
but did all of my sawdust work downstairs. It was WONDERFUL.
I could watch the news, go to the fridge, answer the phone, see the
driveway, watch the weather outside...etc.... I kept everything very
neat and orderly......it wasn't like redoing a greasy old engine or
something.
Regarding the washout----you don't need to 'build' that into the
wing. If you use an adjustable rear strut fork end or use Bernie's
adjustable upper wing end fittings (essentially making different
length fittings to suit your needs) you can put the washout desired
in on the wings to keep your ailerons flying right up to stall.
It DOES help. I tried it with and without, and I left it in 3/8" wash.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> >The primary consideration for building the wing is to keep everything in
> one plane
> >(no pun intended). As I recall there is no wash out for the Piet wing
>
> Chuck- I built my Piet in my living and dinning room (with no wife)
> but did all of my sawdust work downstairs. It was WONDERFUL.
> I could watch the news, go to the fridge, answer the phone, see the
> driveway, watch the weather outside...etc.... I kept everything very
> neat and orderly......it wasn't like redoing a greasy old engine or
> something.
> Regarding the washout----you don't need to 'build' that into the
> wing. If you use an adjustable rear strut fork end or use Bernie's
> adjustable upper wing end fittings (essentially making different
> length fittings to suit your needs) you can put the washout desired
> in on the wings to keep your ailerons flying right up to stall.
> It DOES help. I tried it with and without, and I left it in 3/8" wash.
>
> Mike C.
So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could explode in
the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3 piece
wing.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
>So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could explode in
>the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3 piece
>wing.
>
>Gordon
Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car garage.
I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
morning.
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing-part two... |
No test pieces last night, but I will definately do a couple tonight.
When I take the rib out of the jig to do the opposite side tonight at
least I can let it dry in the house. My jig is a giant oak door, which
I'd rather not lug into the house (weights about 75 pounds!) or cut
up, since I'll be using it as a bench to build my tail pieces on.
T-88 I got at Wicks. $26 for 1/2 pt I THINK. Dont quote me on that one.
Richard
---Gordon Brimhall wrote:
>
> Richard
> Did you glue any test pieces as you glued the ribs last nite? would be
> interesting to see how they perform after drying. I will not have
any nice
> warm place either if I get that far on my plane this winter. T-88
seems to
> be the most used glue? Where are you buying yours and at what
price?
>
> BTW I really like your web site. If I said that before don't let
your head
> swell again:-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Gordon
>
>
>
> Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> > Well, I warmed the shop & the wood (T-88 was in the house, so it was
> > warm anyway) and glued rib #13 at room temp. I hadnt thought of it
> > before, but the rib is now "drying" in the shop, which is by now
at 32
> > degrees or below, which is the outside temp (I finished glueing 5
> > hours ago). Is that a problem, or is it ok for it to DRY at that
temp,
> > or am I being paranoid? This is my first plane, and my Tony B. book
> > hasnt arrived yet (why dont it get here?!), so thanks for humoring
me.
> > This group is great! I cant imagine building a plane without this
> > support group.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > ---TLC62770(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I have my shop insulated very well . the walls have a R-20 , the
> > ceciling has
> > > a R - 39 . My barn is very cold here in mid Mich. during the
winter
> > . So I put
> > > in a wolminized floor that is insulated with water proof blown
in type
> > > insulation and a 1 in. thich stirifom sheet on top then I placed a
> > sheet of
> > > 5/8 plywood on that and screwed it to the wood on the bottom .
so -
> > now the
> > > floor has a R -16 . Most of the stuff I used came from
construction
> > sites , it
> > > was laying in the junk pile . all i had to do was ask for thier
junk
> > . I heat
> > > my 24 x 18 shop for pennys now . it took me about 1 1/2 years to
get
> > all the
> > > stuff togethter for the project . Most everything in the shop came
> > from junk
> > > piles or yard sales . My flor sense lites are throw -aways with
new
> > bulbs in
> > > them . We have the imkproved ribs made now and are starting to lay
> > out the
> > > fuelage within the next couple of weeks . The Corvair engine has
> > been totally
> > > rebuilt with duel plugs and mags . the prop is being made this
> > spring by a
> > > good friend that has built many prop's for other people . We
hope to
> > have it
> > > completed by 2000 .
> > >
> >
> > ==
> > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> > "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> > is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> > not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
> >
> >
>
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lindbergh Discussion |
Thanks for the trivia about the wheels. The tour after NYP must have been a
real logistical success. Think about flying to all of those cities without any
navaids that are available today. I did not realize it, but when the EAA
replica was in Omaha, they had a Stinsom SM8A with it as a chase plane. In
talking with the pilot of the Stinson, he told me that due to the limited
visibility of NX 211, there was a Fairchild 74 as a chase plane. The EAA
replica had a fake windscreen cover, as the NYP used a periscope for forward
vision.
I recommend the Wartime Journals of Linbergh for further insight. He
shares his thoughts flying the DH 4 on the Chicago St. Louis run, his dreams
of what aviation could do for the cause of peace, his plans for the NYP
flight,and much more. Lots of good photos.
Dr. O Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> >So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could explode in
> >the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3 piece
> >wing.
> >
> >Gordon
>
> Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car garage.
> I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
> garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
> besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
> allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
> morning.
>
> MC
I still build models with model airplane cement in the house, so if T-88 is no
worse I won't mind. Nothing like the smell of testers dope in the morning too.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Chuck- I built my Piet in my living and dinning room (with no wife)
> but did all of my sawdust work downstairs. It was WONDERFUL.
> I could watch the news, go to the fridge, answer the phone, see the
> driveway, watch the weather outside...etc.... I kept everything very
> neat and orderly......it wasn't like redoing a greasy old engine or
> something.
I have a wonderful wife who encourages me to buy what I want. When I found
the last engine, she said "Don't bore me with the details, just buy it!".
I have pretty much full rein of the basement which includes phone, radio,
cable TV (for watching Sport Aviation, don't 'cha know). Fortunately, the
garage is in the basement making the removal of the A/C trivial.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Lindbergh anecdote |
All of this Lindbergh discussion has reminded me of a story told to me by a
close family friend. He was my scoutmaster, a great outdoorsman, B-17
instructor pilot in WWII, devout family man. As a boy, he lived on his
father's ranch in northern New Mexico. It raised quite a stir in the
community when an airplane circled overhead (a rare occasion at that time
and place) and landed in one of the local farm fields. When the young boys
finally caught up to the plane and pilot, my friend asked "who are you?"
The pilot was taken aback and replied "Don't you know who I am, I'm Charles
Lindbergh."
I've often wondered if Lindbergh's reply was a reflection of his ego or if
he was genuinely surprised that somewhere, someone really didn't know who
Charles Lindbergh was. I choose to believe the latter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Hey Gordon, That's "Ambroid in the morning" if you are a real old timer!..
There is a pretty good test report on T-88 over on the Hatz website that you
might want to read. Mostly about gluing metal to metal and metal to wood,
but it has some good info. It seems to indicate that the bottom temp for
reliable curing is 35F. After reading everything I can find and using the
glue the general consensus is that if you get the mixture somewhere near
50/50 , don't clamp it too tightly, and give it however much time is
required for it to cure at your tempurature, then you will get an airworthy
bond. I have been using the stuff to build my Hatz ribs in my model airplane
shop (in the house). If you already have a model airplane shop why would you
build your 1 to 1 scale Piet anywhere else? (I am still wondering if
I can get away with welding in the living room when the time comes).
Mike
Hatz 710
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>
>
>Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>> >So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could
explode in
>> >the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3
piece
>> >wing.
>> >
>> >Gordon
>>
>> Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car
garage.
>> I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
>> garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
>> besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
>> allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
>> morning.
>>
>> MC
>
>I still build models with model airplane cement in the house, so if T-88 is
no
>worse I won't mind. Nothing like the smell of testers dope in the morning
too.
>
>Gordon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
This was done by a local builder some years back on a Star Duster II. He
had to tear some of his wall out to remove it when finished.
You didn't have to say you were not married. I'd already guessed.
Thanks, Larry
> Hello Piet'n Pals,
> I am now ready to begin building my wing, and plan on using the one piece
> wing. I have limited space, and it's too cold outside, so, my challenge
is
> to build it in my living room, standing up on the leading edge. I can
extend
> about 1 1/2 feet of the wing out through the back door, to the enclosed
back
> porch. I plan on using a sheet of plywood, ripped into 2' X 8' pieces,
to put
> on the floor, on top of the tarp. This should give a good platform on
top of
> the carpet. Then make five vertical 2 X 4's, with 2 horizontal arms to
> support the spars. I'll adjust the height to keep the leading edge about
a
> foot off the floor, and keep everything level and square.
> After all the wood work, and rigging is done, I think I might be able to
cover
> it in the same attitude, if I use the hardpoints (struts & cabane) to
support
> the wing.
> So...I ask you. Has anyone ever done, or heard of it done this way? Is
this
> an example of insanity, or just another homebuilders method to overcome
> construction challenges?
>
> Chuck
>
> p.s. I don't have a wife.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Hey Mike,
So help us out with the other half of this bridge....where is the Hatz web
site?
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: wing construction (on L.E.) |
http://www.weebeastie.com/hatzcb1/
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
Warren Shoun
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 2:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
Hey Mike,
So help us out with the other half of this bridge....where is the Hatz
web
site?
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
Doug. I found a duplicate entry for your email. Dupes should stop.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
D.J.H.
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 5:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: mail
I have been getting all of mine twice for many months.
Doug Hunt
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: mail
> Date: December 9, 1998 9:59 AM
>
> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> having this problem
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Endicotts
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: mail
>
>
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
Larry,
Are you both rasala(at)brutus.bright.net and
rasala(at)bright.net?
If so you are subscribed with two addresses.
Steve E.
Anyone else?
SE
-----Original Message-----
Endicotts
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 5:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: mail
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> having this problem
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Endicotts
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: mail
>
> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> on the list twice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
was received twice at 11:59.
Thanks, Larry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Single messages only here Steve
Thanks for maintaining this list. It is a great source of information and
inspiration!
J Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: mail
>Larry,
>
>Are you both rasala(at)brutus.bright.net and
>rasala(at)bright.net?
>
>If so you are subscribed with two addresses.
>
>Steve E.
>
>Anyone else?
>
>SE
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Endicotts
>Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 5:47 PM
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: mail
>
>
>steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>>
>> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
>> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
>> having this problem
>>
>> Steve E.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Endicotts
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: mail
>>
>> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
>> on the list twice?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Larry
>Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
>was received twice at 11:59.
>Thanks, Larry.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
>Hello Piet'n Pals,
>I am now ready to begin building my wing, and plan on using the one piece
>wing. I have limited space, and it's too cold outside, so, my challenge is
>to build it in my living room, standing up on the leading edge. I can extend
>about 1 1/2 feet of the wing out through the back door, to the enclosed back
>porch. I plan on using a sheet of plywood, ripped into 2' X 8' pieces, to put
>on the floor, on top of the tarp. This should give a good platform on top of
>the carpet. Then make five vertical 2 X 4's, with 2 horizontal arms to
>support the spars. I'll adjust the height to keep the leading edge about a
>foot off the floor, and keep everything level and square.
>After all the wood work, and rigging is done, I think I might be able to cover
>it in the same attitude, if I use the hardpoints (struts & cabane) to support
>the wing.
>So...I ask you. Has anyone ever done, or heard of it done this way? Is this
>an example of insanity, or just another homebuilders method to overcome
>construction challenges?
>
>Chuck
>
>p.s. I don't have a wife.
>
>
Well I think that the:
p.s. I don't have a wife Should had been at the beguining of your post :-)
Couldnt pay to much atention the first time just imagining a wife's face.
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
>Gary
>
>Well I can almost picture the Bathtub as I seen it years ago but will have
to wait
>tell my Glider & Flying Manual gets here.
>
>I don't know when I will start building a Real Piet. I have plans coming=
from
>RagWing Aviation for the RW1 Ultra Piet, RW2 Special Pitts Biplane and the
RW8/11
>Series where I can build Piper Vagabond, Colt, J-3 Taildraggers or Tri all,
wrapped
>up into one set I think. I traded Roger a Computer for the plans as his old
>computer broke down. The plans were shipped to me last week sometime and I
can't
>wait to get them.
>
>So where do you live? I am in So. Calif in the High Desert on 2.6 acres.
Not quite
>large enough for a runway but I have thought about it. 407' would be my=
biggest
>strip. Now if the lady (Vacant Owner) behind me would sell me her property
I would
>have 800 ft to play with but after writing her twice in the past 9 years I
get no
>answer. Property next door may be for sale as the older lady, we call her
Mom was
>taken up north and put into a rest home, so that would give us 300' x 407
to add to
>our 300'x407' Still short in the direction we need.
>
>Well if you have a small picture of the bathTub you could email it to me.
>
>Gordon
>
I live in Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico. it is located betwen Mexico City and
Puerto Vallarta, our Strip is in rhe shore of the Chapala Lake.
I have a photo of my project when it was ready for covering, that a friend
tooked with those new Digital Cameras, I will look for it and will send it
as soon as I find it.
When I finish with the wings I will have the space to "assamble" it for a
photo.
Plans are to test fly it next year (as soon as possible!!!), I am finishing
with the instruments.
Also my brother Larry's 1/2 VW powered trike is almost ready.
Saludos
---------------
initial testing!=09
--------------
Delegado Regional FEMEDA-FAI | 1,835 VW 2 place "modified" 1932 Ramsey=
Bathtub
ggower(at)informador.com.mx | FAI Legal Ultralight (224 Kg dry) (90%=
finished)
Guadalajara, Jalisco, MEXICO |--Next project:-) HM-380 Flying Flea in=
1999(?)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flying WWP (Wife & Weather Permited) from:
Aerodromo "Paco Yerena" in Chapala: Alt 4,997' ASL N 20=BA18.610' W=
103=BA09.606'
(Grass) Main Strip 14/32 700 mts (2,300'Long 60'W) CT: PAK 123.45
For Ultralights and light planes only. Right pattern to 14 (flying over town=
forbidden) IMPORTANT: check Altitude ASL & power available for take off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Gordon Brimhall wrote:
>
>
> So where do you live? I am in So. Calif in the High Desert
Gordon,
Sounds like you are close to me as I live in Lancaster, CA.
Mike List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
I mentioned before about a Piet screen saver and thought some
enterprising computer wiz in need of Piet building cash would do the
math. As work here is a little slow I will do the math for myself.
Those of you who are interested in a Piet screen saver with
(photo's & actual model A,corvair sounds, )e-mail me and I will start a
list. If I get enough interest I will work on it. As it will take this
computer dummy more effort and time than other computer wiz's, Cost will
be $10.00 or less. Though it is my intent here to bring to light the
opportunity that may be possable by some quick computer wiz.
120 subscribers x 5, 50 x 10 do the math
phil
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, I've done it. I've moved my whole rib gluing operation into my
basement. I feel better already. It didnt set well with me having my
rib dring overnight at 32 degrees F.
Thanks for the advice.
Richard
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
Gary,
I got my copy at Tower Video in Sacramento. They will order for you if they
don't have it in stock.
Good Luck!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
Gary
Sounds good to me. Looks like you are doing a good job on your plane.
Maybe I should retire down their.
Give me information on that.
Gordon
High Desert So. Calif.
Gary Gower wrote:
>
> >Gary
> >
> >Well I can almost picture the Bathtub as I seen it years ago but w=
ill have
> to wait
> >tell my Glider & Flying Manual gets here.
> >
> >I don't know when I will start building a Real Piet. I have plans
coming from
> >RagWing Aviation for the RW1 Ultra Piet, RW2 Special Pitts Biplan=
e and the
> RW8/11
> >Series where I can build Piper Vagabond, Colt, J-3 Taildraggers or=
Tri all,
> wrapped
> >up into one set I think. I traded Roger a Computer for the plans a=
s his old
> >computer broke down. The plans were shipped to me last week someti=
me and I
> can't
> >wait to get them.
> >
> >So where do you live? I am in So. Calif in the High Desert on 2.6
acres.
> Not quite
> >large enough for a runway but I have thought about it. 407' would
be my biggest
> >strip. Now if the lady (Vacant Owner) behind me would sell me her
property
> I would
> >have 800 ft to play with but after writing her twice in the past 9=
years I
> get no
> >answer. Property next door may be for sale as the older lady, we c=
all her
> Mom was
> >taken up north and put into a rest home, so that would give us 300=
' x 407
> to add to
> >our 300'x407' Still short in the direction we need.
> >
> >Well if you have a small picture of the bathTub you could email it=
to me.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> I live in Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico. it is located betwen Mexico
City and
> Puerto Vallarta, our Strip is in rhe shore of the Chapala Lake.
>
> I have a photo of my project when it was ready for covering, that a=
friend
> tooked with those new Digital Cameras, I will look for it and will=
send it
> as soon as I find it.
>
> When I finish with the wings I will have the space to "assamble" it=
for a
> photo.
>
> Plans are to test fly it next year (as soon as possible!!!), I am f=
inishing
> with the instruments.
>
> Also my brother Larry's 1/2 VW powered trike is almost ready.
>
> Saludos
-----------
re Sail
initi=
al testing!
-----------
> Delegado Regional FEMEDA-FAI | 1,835 VW 2 place "modified" 1932 Ra=
msey Bathtub
> ggower(at)informador.com.mx | FAI Legal Ultralight (224 Kg dry) (=
90% finished)
> Guadalajara, Jalisco, MEXICO |--Next project:-) HM-380 Flying Flea
in 1999(?)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
> Flying WWP (Wife & Weather Permited) from:
> Aerodromo "Paco Yerena" in Chapala: Alt 4,997' ASL N 20=BA18.610'=
W 103=BA09.606'
> (Grass) Main Strip 14/32 700 mts (2,300'Long 60'W) CT: PAK 123.45
> For Ultralights and light planes only. Right pattern to 14 (flying
over town
> forbidden) IMPORTANT: check Altitude ASL & power available for take=
off!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Streamlining round tubing |
michael list wrote:
> Gordon Brimhall wrote:
> >
> >
> > So where do you live? I am in So. Calif in the High Desert
>
> Gordon,
>
> Sounds like you are close to me as I live in Lancaster, CA.
>
> Mike List
Yes, Maybe 60 miles or so.
We will have to get together some day and talk airplanes.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Dave,
Keeping everything level and square should be a matter of checking it
periodically, throughout the construction process. My spars are already done,
using the standard scarf splice. The splice is, however not located in the
center, (it's at about the 13' station) therefore I cannot build it in two
panels. Spars are 4- 3/4 X 3/4 Douglas Fir. I will use 1/8" shims,on each
side at each rib, to keep it in the proper location.
I believe washout is reserved for tapered wing planform. A Hershey bar wing
inherently stalls at the inboard section first, thus, ailerons remain
effective.
As for paint, I think I'm going to brush it on...simple, cheaper, no special
equipment.
Chuck
"Know your airplane, know it well, know its limitations, and above all -- know
your own limitations" ~~ Bob Hoover ~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Mike,
I'll keep the sawdust out in the garage. It is great to have a heated area to
build in, and all the other stuff ya mentioned, as I did all the ribs, and
fiberglass fuel tank in the dining room.
Did you use an adjustable rear strut fork end?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Gordon,
I'm using T88, and hardly have any fumes from it, however the fiberglass fuel
tank was a different story. I had really strong fumes in the house during
that phase of construction, and it effected the inside of my nose. I'm going
to set up a small ventilation fan, maybe a bathroom exhaust fan with flexible
pipe or something, to complete the tank.
Chuck
"The laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Larry,
It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the front door,
with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the house
uneffected.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
this fit in with other people's experiences?
I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
materials to build a set of ribs?
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
Dave Matthews
Retsof, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Chuck
Thanks for info on T88 I was worried about my plan to do ribs in the warm house.
It was 14 degrees yesterday morning and then got to 50 something, we are at 2000
ft in the High Desert.
I can cut most my wood in my shed and maybe just bring in my electric sears
belt/disk sander with my shop vac to trim parts with. This is going to be fun to
start building my Baby Piet. Don't laugh guys, Got to start someplace. Anyway
my
reasoning is, I will have an airplane to fly if and when I loose my Medical.
Gordon
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> Gordon,
> I'm using T88, and hardly have any fumes from it, however the fiberglass fuel
> tank was a different story. I had really strong fumes in the house during
> that phase of construction, and it effected the inside of my nose. I'm going
> to set up a small ventilation fan, maybe a bathroom exhaust fan with flexible
> pipe or something, to complete the tank.
>
> Chuck
>
> "The laws of Aerodynamics are unforgiving and the ground is hard."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com> |
Still recieving all messages from this group twice,all other mail is
normal.
Doug Hunt..
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: mail
> Date: December 11, 1998 5:00 PM
>
> Single messages only here Steve
> Thanks for maintaining this list. It is a great source of information and
> inspiration!
> J Mc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:43 PM
> Subject: RE: mail
>
>
> >Larry,
> >
> >Are you both rasala(at)brutus.bright.net and
> >rasala(at)bright.net?
> >
> >If so you are subscribed with two addresses.
> >
> >Steve E.
> >
> >Anyone else?
> >
> >SE
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Endicotts
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 5:47 PM
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Re: mail
> >
> >
> >steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> >> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> >> having this problem
> >>
> >> Steve E.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
The
> >> Endicotts
> >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Subject: mail
> >>
> >> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> >> on the list twice?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Larry
> >Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
> >was received twice at 11:59.
> >Thanks, Larry.
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
I remember Ambroid.
I also remember when I got my allowance 50 cents I got Mom to take me to Jiggs
Hobby shop and I had to go behind the counter as I could not see over it to
select my projects for the weekend. 2 comet stick airplanes 10 cents each and a
tube of glue. Used to get a good size tube for a dime. I would give almost
anything to have some of them models now that I built. I still have about 60 old
new in the box Top Flight props I bought in the 60's after getting out of the
Air Force. Also sitting next to me as I just got it out of my treasure cabinet
is a OK CUB Engine Accessory Kit. Has two wrenches, battery connector and a
small can of OK Cub Glow Fuel, still unopened. Cat No. 970 Cost $1.49
I also have a NIB McCoy 40 RC Bluehead, maybe I will scale down a Piet and build
a model RC, put in my old HeathKit RC stuff and fly it. I sold out most my model
airplane stuff years back when we moved onto our sailboat so now I have to start
collecting all over and this time it will be real airplane stuff.
Old memories are great but new challanges are even greater.
Gordon
Mike Cunningham wrote:
> Hey Gordon, That's "Ambroid in the morning" if you are a real old timer!..
> There is a pretty good test report on T-88 over on the Hatz website that you
> might want to read. Mostly about gluing metal to metal and metal to wood,
> but it has some good info. It seems to indicate that the bottom temp for
> reliable curing is 35F. After reading everything I can find and using the
> glue the general consensus is that if you get the mixture somewhere near
> 50/50 , don't clamp it too tightly, and give it however much time is
> required for it to cure at your tempurature, then you will get an airworthy
> bond. I have been using the stuff to build my Hatz ribs in my model airplane
> shop (in the house). If you already have a model airplane shop why would you
> build your 1 to 1 scale Piet anywhere else? (I am still wondering if
> I can get away with welding in the living room when the time comes).
>
> Mike
> Hatz 710
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:38 PM
> Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>
> >
> >
> >Michael D Cuy wrote:
> >
> >> >So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could
> explode in
> >> >the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3
> piece
> >> >wing.
> >> >
> >> >Gordon
> >>
> >> Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car
> garage.
> >> I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
> >> garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
> >> besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
> >> allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
> >> morning.
> >>
> >> MC
> >
> >I still build models with model airplane cement in the house, so if T-88 is
> no
> >worse I won't mind. Nothing like the smell of testers dope in the morning
> too.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" <carmen(at)cana.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
I built my fuselage in my livingroom (prior to my marriage...). When I
moved the raw materials in, I saw that as long as I didn't change
anything, the fuselage would go out the same way. I was reluctant to
move my project into the workshop, (and as a result, I work on it less),
but sometimes domestic harmony has to take precedent... My wife and
I were able to move the fuselage out in only a few minutes of effort..
-Carmen
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Larry,
> It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the front door,
> with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the house
> uneffected.
>
> Chuck
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks did
I discover this source:
Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
Calgary, Alberta Canada
(403)250-1955
The guy is super nice and knows the Piet in & out. If you want wood
for your Piet, just tell him what part of the ship your building &
he'll send you the right amounts and sizes. I have not ordered from
him yet, so I can't personally vouch for quality of wood, but his
prices are better than wicks, and he wsa quite adamant on the phone
that when you order from him you get great wood. For an example of his
prices, if you ordered all of the wood for the fuselage from him it
would cost you $575 & $20 for crating (ships Delta Air Freight).
Can anyone vouch for the quality? I know someone must be able to,
since I got his number from this group. :)
Richard
---Dave and Connie wrote:
>
> The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
> start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
> material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
> is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
>
> Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
> this fit in with other people's experiences?
>
> I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
> of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
> will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
> when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
> a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
> don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
> materials to build a set of ribs?
>
> Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
> wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
> but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
> may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
> needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
> Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
>
> Dave Matthews
> Retsof, NY
>
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
What size table/bench is required to build the full size Piet?
I'm planning on a level work bench of 4' x 16' using two pieces of 3/4" x 4' x
8'
Plywood built on sturdy legs and bolted to the wall.
As long as I am going to add on to my workshed in the spring I want to make it
large enough for the real piet that I will build later. I only figure 600 hrs for
the Ultralite Piet, BUt that could be wrong, book say 400 hrs so I added 200 more.
Gordon
"Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" wrote:
> I built my fuselage in my livingroom (prior to my marriage...). When I
> moved the raw materials in, I saw that as long as I didn't change
> anything, the fuselage would go out the same way. I was reluctant to
> move my project into the workshop, (and as a result, I work on it less),
> but sometimes domestic harmony has to take precedent... My wife and
> I were able to move the fuselage out in only a few minutes of effort..
>
> -Carmen
>
> Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Larry,
> > It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the front door,
> > with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the house
> > uneffected.
> >
> > Chuck
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
I may be in an overkill mode here, but when I start building, I plan to put
quite a lot of effort into the work table. I figure it is part of the gig
in many cases, and needs to be true. If it isn't, the part built will also
be off.
Thanks, Larry
> What size table/bench is required to build the full size Piet?
>
> I'm planning on a level work bench of 4' x 16' using two pieces of 3/4" x
4' x
> 8'
> Plywood built on sturdy legs and bolted to the wall.
>
> As long as I am going to add on to my workshed in the spring I want to
make it
> large enough for the real piet that I will build later. I only figure 600
hrs
> for
> the Ultralite Piet, BUt that could be wrong, book say 400 hrs so I added
200
> more.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" wrote:
>
> > I built my fuselage in my livingroom (prior to my marriage...). When I
> > moved the raw materials in, I saw that as long as I didn't change
> > anything, the fuselage would go out the same way. I was reluctant to
> > move my project into the workshop, (and as a result, I work on it less),
> > but sometimes domestic harmony has to take precedent... My wife and
> > I were able to move the fuselage out in only a few minutes of effort..
> >
> > -Carmen
> >
> > Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Larry,
> > > It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the
front
> door,
> > > with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the house
> > > uneffected.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> >
> > --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Temp& Glueing-part two... |
Hi Richard,
Don't know about regulations in the States but here in Canada we are
required to keep samples glued from a batch to demonstrate strength if they
should ask. I kept the samples, he asked but did not want any demo. Still
working on those photes. I'm going to do some taxi tests tomorrow.
regards,
Domenic
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Temp& Glueing-part two...
>Richard
>Did you glue any test pieces as you glued the ribs last nite? would be
>interesting to see how they perform after drying. I will not have any nice
>warm place either if I get that far on my plane this winter. T-88 seems to
>be the most used glue? Where are you buying yours and at what price?
>
>BTW I really like your web site. If I said that before don't let your head
>swell again:-)
>
>Thanks
>
>Gordon
>
>
>Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>> Well, I warmed the shop & the wood (T-88 was in the house, so it was
>> warm anyway) and glued rib #13 at room temp. I hadnt thought of it
>> before, but the rib is now "drying" in the shop, which is by now at 32
>> degrees or below, which is the outside temp (I finished glueing 5
>> hours ago). Is that a problem, or is it ok for it to DRY at that temp,
>> or am I being paranoid? This is my first plane, and my Tony B. book
>> hasnt arrived yet (why dont it get here?!), so thanks for humoring me.
>> This group is great! I cant imagine building a plane without this
>> support group.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> ---TLC62770(at)aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > I have my shop insulated very well . the walls have a R-20 , the
>> ceciling has
>> > a R - 39 . My barn is very cold here in mid Mich. during the winter
>> . So I put
>> > in a wolminized floor that is insulated with water proof blown in type
>> > insulation and a 1 in. thich stirifom sheet on top then I placed a
>> sheet of
>> > 5/8 plywood on that and screwed it to the wood on the bottom . so -
>> now the
>> > floor has a R -16 . Most of the stuff I used came from construction
>> sites , it
>> > was laying in the junk pile . all i had to do was ask for thier junk
>> . I heat
>> > my 24 x 18 shop for pennys now . it took me about 1 1/2 years to get
>> all the
>> > stuff togethter for the project . Most everything in the shop came
>> from junk
>> > piles or yard sales . My flor sense lites are throw -aways with new
>> bulbs in
>> > them . We have the imkproved ribs made now and are starting to lay
>> out the
>> > fuelage within the next couple of weeks . The Corvair engine has
>> been totally
>> > rebuilt with duel plugs and mags . the prop is being made this
>> spring by a
>> > good friend that has built many prop's for other people . We hope to
>> have it
>> > completed by 2000 .
>> >
>>
>> ==
>> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
>> "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
>> is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
>> not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Dave, You muust have heard by now that Bernie made his cuts to the center of
the blade. Therefore, the dim. would be 1/16th smaller than it says in the
plans. You should too. The weight you save will a lot overall. It will make
you happier and allow you to carry more usuable weight.
Regards,
Domenic
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs
>The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
>start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
>material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
>is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
>
>Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
>this fit in with other people's experiences?
>
>I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
>of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
>will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
>when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
>a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
>don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
>materials to build a set of ribs?
>
>Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
>wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
>but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
>may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
>needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
>Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
>
>Dave Matthews
>Retsof, NY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Hi Gordon:
Couple of things that I considered when making my set up for the fuselage:
it
wasn't going to be here forever; I would want to have access from both sides for
detail work, so I looked at maximum fuselage depth & width and added 8 inches;
love my
mechanics adjustable roll around shop stool, so made fuselage set up table just
the
right height for me to work comfortably from that. Does wonders for my back and
my
attitude....{;
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
I agree with your statement. Work bench is an important item. When we had our
last home I had a Bench/Cabinets built that were bullet proof, Bench was 18' x
3' and 2" thick with a nice finish on it and bolted to the wall. Not big enough
for an airplane but really nice for my reloading and other things I did back
then. Also had another smaller 10' x 3' that I used to beat/pound stuff on and
it was really thick wood on top.
EAA Chapter 1000 has plans for nice portable work benches that you can bolt
together to make larger benches/work areas.
So Larry what size do you plan to make your work bench?
Gordon
Larry Pasley wrote:
> I may be in an overkill mode here, but when I start building, I plan to put
> quite a lot of effort into the work table. I figure it is part of the gig
> in many cases, and needs to be true. If it isn't, the part built will also
> be off.
> Thanks, Larry
>
> ----------
> > What size table/bench is required to build the full size Piet?
> >
> > I'm planning on a level work bench of 4' x 16' using two pieces of 3/4" x
> 4' x
> > 8'
> > Plywood built on sturdy legs and bolted to the wall.
> >
> > As long as I am going to add on to my workshed in the spring I want to
> make it
> > large enough for the real piet that I will build later. I only figure 600
> hrs
> > for
> > the Ultralite Piet, BUt that could be wrong, book say 400 hrs so I added
> 200
> > more.
> >
> > Gordon
> >
> >
> > "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" wrote:
> >
> > > I built my fuselage in my livingroom (prior to my marriage...). When I
> > > moved the raw materials in, I saw that as long as I didn't change
> > > anything, the fuselage would go out the same way. I was reluctant to
> > > move my project into the workshop, (and as a result, I work on it less),
> > > but sometimes domestic harmony has to take precedent... My wife and
> > > I were able to move the fuselage out in only a few minutes of effort..
> > >
> > > -Carmen
> > >
> > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > > It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the
> front
> > door,
> > > > with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the house
> > > > uneffected.
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > >
> > > --
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Probably 2 ft. X 16 ft. with a threaded rod in the legs for adjustment.
Support every 3 to 4 ft. Also have another work table that is about 3 ft. X
6 ft. for alot of other work.
> I agree with your statement. Work bench is an important item. When we had
our
> last home I had a Bench/Cabinets built that were bullet proof, Bench was
18' x
> 3' and 2" thick with a nice finish on it and bolted to the wall. Not big
> enough
> for an airplane but really nice for my reloading and other things I did
back
> then. Also had another smaller 10' x 3' that I used to beat/pound stuff
on and
> it was really thick wood on top.
>
> EAA Chapter 1000 has plans for nice portable work benches that you can
bolt
> together to make larger benches/work areas.
>
> So Larry what size do you plan to make your work bench?
>
> Gordon
>
>
> Larry Pasley wrote:
>
> > I may be in an overkill mode here, but when I start building, I plan to
put
> > quite a lot of effort into the work table. I figure it is part of the
gig
> > in many cases, and needs to be true. If it isn't, the part built will
also
> > be off.
> > Thanks, Larry
> >
> > ----------
> > > What size table/bench is required to build the full size Piet?
> > >
> > > I'm planning on a level work bench of 4' x 16' using two pieces of
3/4" x
> > 4' x
> > > 8'
> > > Plywood built on sturdy legs and bolted to the wall.
> > >
> > > As long as I am going to add on to my workshed in the spring I want to
> > make it
> > > large enough for the real piet that I will build later. I only figure
600
> > hrs
> > > for
> > > the Ultralite Piet, BUt that could be wrong, book say 400 hrs so I
added
> > 200
> > > more.
> > >
> > > Gordon
> > >
> > >
> > > "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" wrote:
> > >
> > > > I built my fuselage in my livingroom (prior to my marriage...).
When I
> > > > moved the raw materials in, I saw that as long as I didn't change
> > > > anything, the fuselage would go out the same way. I was reluctant
to
> > > > move my project into the workshop, (and as a result, I work on it
less),
> > > > but sometimes domestic harmony has to take precedent... My wife
and
> > > > I were able to move the fuselage out in only a few minutes of
effort..
> > > >
> > > > -Carmen
> > > >
> > > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry,
> > > > > It looks as though I will be able to carry the wing right out the
> > front
> > > door,
> > > > > with the help of 3 or 4 friends, and leave the structure of the
house
> > > > > uneffected.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chuck
> > > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com> |
How is the corvair engine running Raffaele?
Doug..
> From: Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>
> Date: December 12, 1998 9:23 AM
> . I'm going to do some taxi tests tomorrow.
> regards,
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
I bought my spars,leading edge,and trailing edge material from western
aircraft,spars were 19 rings to the inch you can pick a ring and follow it
from one end to the other.
He is only 2 hours by road from me.so i picked it up myself.
Doug.....
> From: Richard DeCosta
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs
> Date: December 12, 1998 8:14 AM
>
> Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks did
> I discover this source:
>
> Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
> Calgary, Alberta Canada
> (403)250-1955
>
> The guy is super nice and knows the Piet in & out. If you want wood
> for your Piet, just tell him what part of the ship your building &
> he'll send you the right amounts and sizes. I have not ordered from
> him yet, so I can't personally vouch for quality of wood, but his
> prices are better than wicks, and he wsa quite adamant on the phone
> that when you order from him you get great wood. For an example of his
> prices, if you ordered all of the wood for the fuselage from him it
> would cost you $575 & $20 for crating (ships Delta Air Freight).
>
> Can anyone vouch for the quality? I know someone must be able to,
> since I got his number from this group. :)
>
> Richard
>
> ---Dave and Connie wrote:
> >
> > The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
> > start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
> > material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
> > is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
> >
> > Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
> > this fit in with other people's experiences?
> >
> > I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
> > of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
> > will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
> > when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
> > a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
> > don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
> > materials to build a set of ribs?
> >
> > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
> > wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
> > but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
> > may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
> > needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
> > Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Dave Matthews
> > Retsof, NY
> >
> >
>
> ==
> http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Thanks for the report. I will be ordering from him next for sure.
---"D.J.H." wrote:
>
> I bought my spars,leading edge,and trailing edge material from western
> aircraft,spars were 19 rings to the inch you can pick a ring and
follow it
> from one end to the other.
> He is only 2 hours by road from me.so i picked it up myself.
> Doug.....
>
> ----------
> > From: Richard DeCosta
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs
> > Date: December 12, 1998 8:14 AM
> >
> > Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks
did
> > I discover this source:
> >
> > Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
> > Calgary, Alberta Canada
> > (403)250-1955
> >
> > The guy is super nice and knows the Piet in & out. If you want wood
> > for your Piet, just tell him what part of the ship your building &
> > he'll send you the right amounts and sizes. I have not ordered from
> > him yet, so I can't personally vouch for quality of wood, but his
> > prices are better than wicks, and he wsa quite adamant on the phone
> > that when you order from him you get great wood. For an example of
his
> > prices, if you ordered all of the wood for the fuselage from him it
> > would cost you $575 & $20 for crating (ships Delta Air Freight).
> >
> > Can anyone vouch for the quality? I know someone must be able to,
> > since I got his number from this group. :)
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > ---Dave and Connie wrote:
> > >
> > > The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
> > > start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
> > > material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
> > > is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
> > >
> > > Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
> > > this fit in with other people's experiences?
> > >
> > > I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
> > > of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
> > > will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
> > > when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
> > > a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
> > > don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
> > > materials to build a set of ribs?
> > >
> > > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
> > > wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
> > > but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
> > > may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
> > > needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
> > > Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
> > >
> > > Dave Matthews
> > > Retsof, NY
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ==
> > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
> > "All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
> > is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
> > not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
==
http://www.wrld.com/w3builder
"All knowledge is of itself of some value. There
is nothing so minute or inconsiderable, that I would
not rather know it than not." --Samuel, Dr. Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Brodhead 99' |
Great!, I have already read it. I am hoping to fly up, dodging the
thunderstorms all the way, from Florida
Ted,
Naples, FL
GN-1
>Steve:
>
>Hey! That's right. Flight of Passage should be required reading for all of
>you who will make th pilgrimage. NEWS FLASH - All of you planning to make
>the trip should get a copy of Flight of Passage, by Rinker Buck, and read it
>prior to the trip.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TLC62770(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:sold the Piet |
PLease unsubscribe . Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Gipson <flexable(at)onlinemac.com> |
I have been reading the mail for quite some time and have been
interested especially in the comments on cold weather epoxy construction
using something called T-88. I am not familiar with this product but
have a suggestion. System Three Resins of Seattle WA are producers of
resin based epoxies. One of the major uses of system three is boat
construction. Especially wooden boat construction. In the N.W. and
close to the water in unheated boat houses, the humidity and temperature
present problems to many epoxy products. System Three has a special low
temperature hardener which may solve the cold weather airplane builders
quandray. They also have a remarkable system for producing a light
weight epoxy filler which is great for filleting and fairing to
streamline seams and joints on the aircraft.
I buy System Three products at Woodcraft Supply. I believe they
have stores in most states. If not in your area you could contact:
System Three Resins, Inc
P. O. Box 70436
Seattle, WA 98107
206-782-7976
Good Luck and Good Woodworking,
Ron Gipson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I've been looking at brakes lately, and have ,(kind of) decided to use
AZUSA 5" cable operated brakes, with a hand lever.
Tracy OBrien aircraft specialties....... tracy(at)localaccess.com sells
these AZUSA brakes modifyed for 3/4" axles. I'm wondering if my "ace" at
1200 lbs gross wt. can be properly supported by 3/4" axles, or should I
go with 1", or 1 1/4 diam stuff??
Also should the axle be of solid material, or can I use thick walled
steel tubing? ( Ihave a metal lathe, and can thread these myself)
Keeping in mind that I'm building wire rim wheels, and the bearing
surface of the axle will be 6" + about 1" more for the threaded
part...are 3/4" axles strong enough?
ocb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
I just received Three Resins basic trial kit. I tried it on the stitch
and glue boat yesterday. I was impressed but will keep playing with it
till i feel comfortable with it.Will probably order some more monday.
phil
Ron Gipson wrote:
> I have been reading the mail for quite some time and have been
> interested especially in the comments on cold weather epoxy
> construction using something called T-88. I am not familiar with this
> product but have a suggestion. System Three Resins of Seattle WA are
> producers of resin based epoxies. One of the major uses of system
> three is boat construction. Especially wooden boat construction. In
> the N.W. and close to the water in unheated boat houses, the humidity
> and temperature present problems to many epoxy products. System Three
> has a special low temperature hardener which may solve the cold
> weather airplane builders quandray. They also have a remarkable
> system for producing a light weight epoxy filler which is great for
> filleting and fairing to streamline seams and joints on the
> aircraft. I buy System Three products at Woodcraft Supply. I
> believe they have stores in most states. If not in your area you
> could contact: System Three Resins,
> Inc
> P. O. Box
> 70436
> Seattle, WA
> 98107
> 206-782-7976Good Luck and Good Woodworking, Ron Gipson
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
I just received Three Resins basic trial kit. I tried it on the stitch
and glue boat yesterday. I was impressed but will keep playing with
it till i feel comfortable with it.Will probably order some more monday.
phil
Ron Gipson wrote:
I have
been reading the mail for quite some time and have been interested especially
in the comments on cold weather epoxy construction using something called
T-88. I am not familiar with this product but have a suggestion.
System Three Resins of Seattle WA are producers of resin based epoxies.
One of the major uses of system three is boat construction. Especially
wooden boat construction. In the N.W. and close to the water in unheated
boat houses, the humidity and temperature present problems to many epoxy
products. System Three has a special low temperature hardener which
may solve the cold weather airplane builders quandray. They also
have a remarkable system for producing a light weight epoxy filler which
is great for filleting and fairing to streamline seams and joints on the
aircraft.
I buy System Three products at Woodcraft Supply. I believe they have
stores in most states. If not in your area you could contact:
System Three Resins, Inc
P. O. Box 70436
Seattle, WA 98107
206-782-7976Good Luck
and Good Woodworking,Ron
Gipson
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
Hi Jim;
Merry Christmas and welcome to the group. This is a great
bunch of folks to read about and from. Traditionally new
members tell a little about themselves when joining. And
don't worry about your level of expertise. There is a
little of everything here. From Champion builders to starry
eyed dreamers like me. Again welcome
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Crew
Lots of talk about working with wood/glue at low temperatures. Any
problems I should be aware of when working at high temps (75-100F)?
Gets kinda hot down here in the summer
Thanks
Rob
OZ Piets: The only ones to fly inverted...
________________________________________________________________________________
System Three is the manufacturer of T-88.
Al Swanson
Fuselage done, ribs done, starting the metal work.
>I have been reading the mail for quite some time and have been interested
especially in the comments on cold weather epoxy construction using
something called T-88. I am not familiar with this product but have a
suggestion. System Three Resins of Seattle WA are producers of resin based
epoxies. One of the major uses of system three is boat construction.
Especially wooden boat construction. In the N.W. and close to the water in
unheated boat houses, the humidity and temperature present problems to many
epoxy products. System Three has a special low temperature hardener which
may solve the cold weather airplane builders quandray. They also have a
remarkable system for producing a light weight epoxy filler which is great
for filleting and fairing to streamline seams and joints on the aircraft.
> I buy System Three products at Woodcraft Supply. I believe they have
stores in most states. If not in your area you could contact: System Three
Resins, Inc
>
P. O. Box 70436
>
Seattle, WA 98107
>
206-782-7976
>Good Luck and Good Woodworking,
>
>Ron Gipson
>
>
>I have been reading the mail for quite some
time
>and have been interested especially in the comments on cold weather epoxy
>construction using something called T-88. I am not familiar with this
>product but have a suggestion. System Three Resins of Seattle WA are
>producers of resin based epoxies. One of the major uses of system
three is
>boat construction. Especially wooden boat construction. In the
N.W.
>and close to the water in unheated boat houses, the humidity and temperature
>present problems to many epoxy products. System Three has a special low
>temperature hardener which may solve the cold weather airplane builders
>quandray. They also have a remarkable system for producing a light
weight
>epoxy filler which is great for filleting and fairing to streamline seams and
>joints on the aircraft.
> I buy System Three products
>at Woodcraft Supply. I believe they have stores in most states. If
>not in your area you could contact: System Three Resins, Inc
>
>size=2>&n
bsp;
&nbs
p;&n
bsp;
>P. O. Box 70436
>
>size=2>&n
bsp;
&nbs
p;&n
bsp;
>Seattle, WA 98107
>
>size=2>&n
bsp;
&nbs
p;&n
bsp;
>206-782-7976
>Good Luck and Good Woodworking,
>
>Ron Gipson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
You need access from both sides while working on the fuselage, tail
feathers. etc. I used two 4x8 tables with adjustable legs for leveling,
and bolted together. You can layout full size plans for fuselage, ribs,
and tail surfaces. Then build just like the old stick models.
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
> Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 5:01 PM
>
> Hi Gordon:
> Couple of things that I considered when making my set up for the
fuselage: it
> wasn't going to be here forever; I would want to have access from both
sides for
> detail work, so I looked at maximum fuselage depth & width and added 8
inches;
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
I ordered my wood from Jean Peters about two years ago. Wood and service
were first class! There was a shortage (actually a wrong size) on a
couple of small pieces and Jean corrected immediately with no charge or
hassle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Entill I add on to my metal workshop or add a roof to my patio I am stuck
with a 10'x12.5' metal building to do my building right now. I will be just
making my wing ribs and other small parts at first I guess. Spring will see
the add on for sure.
Thanks for your information guys.
Yes, just a large model airplane. I see giant scale RC models now with 132"
wing spans J-3 Cub
Gordon
Phil Phillips wrote:
> You need access from both sides while working on the fuselage, tail
> feathers. etc. I used two 4x8 tables with adjustable legs for leveling,
> and bolted together. You can layout full size plans for fuselage, ribs,
> and tail surfaces. Then build just like the old stick models.
>
> ----------
> > From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
> > Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 5:01 PM
> >
> > Hi Gordon:
> > Couple of things that I considered when making my set up for the
> fuselage: it
> > wasn't going to be here forever; I would want to have access from both
> sides for
> > detail work, so I looked at maximum fuselage depth & width and added 8
> inches;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Ian,
About how much is the shipping on wood? One of the notes said that
Jean ships by Delta Air Freight. Does Jean also handle customs
clearance? I would have him ship to Rochester, NY.
Dave
>I ordered my wood from Jean Peters about two years ago. Wood and service
>were first class! There was a shortage (actually a wrong size) on a
>couple of small pieces and Jean corrected immediately with no charge or
>hassle.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
>Mike,
>I'll keep the sawdust out in the garage. It is great to have a heated
area to
>build in, and all the other stuff ya mentioned, as I did all the ribs, and
>fiberglass fuel tank in the dining room.
>Did you use an adjustable rear strut fork end?
>
>Chuck
Chuck- I used adjustable fork ends on all four struts- this way I could
adjust for diehedral and washout. I got a used set and had them
magnafluxed before installing them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Schober <classair(at)ny.frontiercomm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Dave and Connie wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> About how much is the shipping on wood? One of the notes said that
> Jean ships by Delta Air Freight. Does Jean also handle customs
> clearance? I would have him ship to Rochester, NY.
> Dave
>
> >I ordered my wood from Jean Peters about two years ago. Wood and service
> >were first class! There was a shortage (actually a wrong size) on a
> >couple of small pieces and Jean corrected immediately with no charge or
> >hassle.
> >
> >
> >
Dave & Connie,
You might want to try Condon Lumber in White Plains and Stormville NY
for your wood. Condon Bennett was one of my students and runs the place.
Telephone (914) 221-0156 or 946-4111, fax (914) 221-4842. They made up a
set of spars for a Champ a few years back and I also had them mill the
fairings for the Tripacer I did a couple years ago. Prices weren't bad
and they are a little closer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
The Hatz website is weebeastie.com/hatzcb1/htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 4:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>Hey Mike,
> So help us out with the other half of this bridge....where is the Hatz
web
>site?
>Warren
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Thanks Mike,
Stevee also posted this, and I found a ton of interesting and useful
"stuff" there and on the attached links, and plan to go back and cruise around
some more info. Thanks again.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Sounds like you go back further than me in the model airplane biz!. I have
only been at it since age eight, that was 1965. There are plenty of good RC
Piet plans available. I think RC modeler has a 1/4 Scale Air Camper. Most
other plans are for Scouts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>I remember Ambroid.
>
>I also remember when I got my allowance 50 cents I got Mom to take me to
Jiggs
>Hobby shop and I had to go behind the counter as I could not see over it to
>select my projects for the weekend. 2 comet stick airplanes 10 cents each
and a
>tube of glue. Used to get a good size tube for a dime. I would give almost
>anything to have some of them models now that I built. I still have about
60 old
>new in the box Top Flight props I bought in the 60's after getting out of
the
>Air Force. Also sitting next to me as I just got it out of my treasure
cabinet
>is a OK CUB Engine Accessory Kit. Has two wrenches, battery connector and a
>small can of OK Cub Glow Fuel, still unopened. Cat No. 970 Cost $1.49
>
>I also have a NIB McCoy 40 RC Bluehead, maybe I will scale down a Piet and
build
>a model RC, put in my old HeathKit RC stuff and fly it. I sold out most my
model
>airplane stuff years back when we moved onto our sailboat so now I have to
start
>collecting all over and this time it will be real airplane stuff.
>
>Old memories are great but new challanges are even greater.
>
>Gordon
>
>
>Mike Cunningham wrote:
>
>> Hey Gordon, That's "Ambroid in the morning" if you are a real old
timer!..
>> There is a pretty good test report on T-88 over on the Hatz website that
you
>> might want to read. Mostly about gluing metal to metal and metal to wood,
>> but it has some good info. It seems to indicate that the bottom temp for
>> reliable curing is 35F. After reading everything I can find and using the
>> glue the general consensus is that if you get the mixture somewhere near
>> 50/50 , don't clamp it too tightly, and give it however much time is
>> required for it to cure at your tempurature, then you will get an
airworthy
>> bond. I have been using the stuff to build my Hatz ribs in my model
airplane
>> shop (in the house). If you already have a model airplane shop why would
you
>> build your 1 to 1 scale Piet anywhere else? (I am still wondering if
>> I can get away with welding in the living room when the time comes).
>>
>> Mike
>> Hatz 710
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gordon Brimhall
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Michael D Cuy wrote:
>> >
>> >> >So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could
>> explode in
>> >> >the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3
>> piece
>> >> >wing.
>> >> >
>> >> >Gordon
>> >>
>> >> Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car
>> garage.
>> >> I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
>> >> garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
>> >> besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
>> >> allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
>> >> morning.
>> >>
>> >> MC
>> >
>> >I still build models with model airplane cement in the house, so if T-88
is
>> no
>> >worse I won't mind. Nothing like the smell of testers dope in the
morning
>> too.
>> >
>> >Gordon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: airplane axles |
Oilcan; I rebuilt a Stitts Flutterbug that used Grade 8 3/4 by 6" bolts for
the axles. the gear iis split with bungee cords similar to Piper PA 12. The
aircraft weight I forgot but it under 1000lbs
J Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 2:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: airplane axles
>I've been looking at brakes lately, and have ,(kind of) decided to use
>AZUSA 5" cable operated brakes, with a hand lever.
>
>Tracy OBrien aircraft specialties....... tracy(at)localaccess.com sells
>these AZUSA brakes modifyed for 3/4" axles. I'm wondering if my "ace" at
>1200 lbs gross wt. can be properly supported by 3/4" axles, or should I
>go with 1", or 1 1/4 diam stuff??
>Also should the axle be of solid material, or can I use thick walled
>steel tubing? ( Ihave a metal lathe, and can thread these myself)
>
>Keeping in mind that I'm building wire rim wheels, and the bearing
>surface of the axle will be 6" + about 1" more for the threaded
>part...are 3/4" axles strong enough?
>
>ocb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Started building model airplanes around 1949 and shortly after that was flying
Controline and free flight. By 1965 I was out of the Air Force and was a model
maker & designer for Riggen Industries (Slot Cars & RC Bodies Production
Tooling) I've made well over 200 Vacuum Form molds. Got into RC about 1968 But
I never got real good at flying as we had to drive too far to find a place to
fly. Then with 8 - 10 yrs as a Aircraft and Marine Machinist I have just enough
skills to build an airplane, Just getting Old N Slow.
I like to build things more than anything else.
Gordon
Mike Cunningham wrote:
> Sounds like you go back further than me in the model airplane biz!. I have
> only been at it since age eight, that was 1965. There are plenty of good RC
> Piet plans available. I think RC modeler has a 1/4 Scale Air Camper. Most
> other plans are for Scouts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 9:10 AM
> Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
>
> >I remember Ambroid.
> >
> >I also remember when I got my allowance 50 cents I got Mom to take me to
> Jiggs
> >Hobby shop and I had to go behind the counter as I could not see over it to
> >select my projects for the weekend. 2 comet stick airplanes 10 cents each
> and a
> >tube of glue. Used to get a good size tube for a dime. I would give almost
> >anything to have some of them models now that I built. I still have about
> 60 old
> >new in the box Top Flight props I bought in the 60's after getting out of
> the
> >Air Force. Also sitting next to me as I just got it out of my treasure
> cabinet
> >is a OK CUB Engine Accessory Kit. Has two wrenches, battery connector and a
> >small can of OK Cub Glow Fuel, still unopened. Cat No. 970 Cost $1.49
> >
> >I also have a NIB McCoy 40 RC Bluehead, maybe I will scale down a Piet and
> build
> >a model RC, put in my old HeathKit RC stuff and fly it. I sold out most my
> model
> >airplane stuff years back when we moved onto our sailboat so now I have to
> start
> >collecting all over and this time it will be real airplane stuff.
> >
> >Old memories are great but new challanges are even greater.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> >Mike Cunningham wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Gordon, That's "Ambroid in the morning" if you are a real old
> timer!..
> >> There is a pretty good test report on T-88 over on the Hatz website that
> you
> >> might want to read. Mostly about gluing metal to metal and metal to wood,
> >> but it has some good info. It seems to indicate that the bottom temp for
> >> reliable curing is 35F. After reading everything I can find and using the
> >> glue the general consensus is that if you get the mixture somewhere near
> >> 50/50 , don't clamp it too tightly, and give it however much time is
> >> required for it to cure at your tempurature, then you will get an
> airworthy
> >> bond. I have been using the stuff to build my Hatz ribs in my model
> airplane
> >> shop (in the house). If you already have a model airplane shop why would
> you
> >> build your 1 to 1 scale Piet anywhere else? (I am still wondering if
> >> I can get away with welding in the living room when the time comes).
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Hatz 710
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gordon Brimhall
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 12:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: wing construction (on L.E.)
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Michael D Cuy wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> >So what kind of glue was you using, I worry about fumes that could
> >> explode in
> >> >> >the house. How large of an area do you need if you are building the 3
> >> piece
> >> >> >wing.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Gordon
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve E. and I can both testify that a Piet can be built in a one car
> >> garage.
> >> >> I stored my completed Piet unassembled with 3 pce. wing in a one car
> >> >> garage. I used T-88 epoxy and had no problems with any hazards
> >> >> besides wearing surgical gloves once in a while to guard against
> >> >> allergic skin reactions. Ah, the smell of T-88 and spruce in the
> >> >> morning.
> >> >>
> >> >> MC
> >> >
> >> >I still build models with model airplane cement in the house, so if T-88
> is
> >> no
> >> >worse I won't mind. Nothing like the smell of testers dope in the
> morning
> >> too.
> >> >
> >> >Gordon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
Ron,
For future reference, the words "streamline" and "Pietenpol" are a little
uncomfortable in the same sentence....(heh, heh, heh!) Happy Holidays!
Don C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Endicotts <rasala(at)brutus.bright.net> |
D.J.H. wrote:
>
> Still recieving all messages from this group twice,all other mail is
> normal.
> Doug Hunt..
>
> ----------
> > From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: mail
> > Date: December 11, 1998 5:00 PM
> >
> > Single messages only here Steve
> > Thanks for maintaining this list. It is a great source of information and
> > inspiration!
> > J Mc
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: steve(at)byu.edu
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:43 PM
> > Subject: RE: mail
> >
> >
> > >Larry,
> > >
> > >Are you both rasala(at)brutus.bright.net and
> > >rasala(at)bright.net?
> > >
> > >If so you are subscribed with two addresses.
> > >
> > >Steve E.
> > >
> > >Anyone else?
> > >
> > >SE
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >Endicotts
> > >Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 5:47 PM
> > >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: mail
> > >
> > >
> > >steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Are you getting every message twice, if so for how long has this been
> > >> happening? Are the messages dated with the same time? Is anyone else
> > >> having this problem
> > >>
> > >> Steve E.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> The
> > >> Endicotts
> > >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 6:27 PM
> > >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >> Subject: mail
> > >>
> > >> I am getting all of my discussion messages twice. Does this mean I am
> > >> on the list twice?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Larry
> > >Yes, each message is sent twice and the times are the same. This message
> > >was received twice at 11:59.
> > >Thanks, Larry.
> > >
> > >
Yes, I think that would be the reason--you can take off either one, I
really don't think it matters, since I'm getting them both. Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Raffaele,
When I built my wing ribs, I to... stapled them down,then to make them
easier to pull out, i slipped a shim of .025 by 1/4" steel under the
stapler. That way, the staples were around .025 high. Then I slipped a
fillet knife under the staples to pull them back out.
Lastly, when the time to nail came, I did pilot drill all nail holes
with a #65 drill bit to about 1/2 nail depth, then drove # 20 or #18
nails, I dont remember which.
OCB
>From steve(at)byu.edu Sat Dec 12 08:34:21 1998
>Received: from adena.byu.edu ("port 3642"@adena.byu.edu)
> by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-10 #U3118)
> with ESMTP id <01J58UQRKFOE90WBZM(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com;
>Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:36:53 -0500
>From: Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com>
>Subject: Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs
>Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Errors-to: Steve(at)byu.edu
>Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
>Message-id: <8D8A0F0AEF(at)adena.byu.edu>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 (via Mercury MTS v1.43
(NDS))
> (via Mercury MTS v1.43 (NDS))
>Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>X-Listname:
>
>Dave, You muust have heard by now that Bernie made his cuts to the
center of
>the blade. Therefore, the dim. would be 1/16th smaller than it says in
the
>plans. You should too. The weight you save will a lot overall. It will
make
>you happier and allow you to carry more usuable weight.
>Regards,
>
>Domenic
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 8:54 AM
>Subject: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs
>
>
>>The check went off to Don Pietenpol yesterday. Now I have to
>>start ordering materials. The first order will be for rib
>>material only. That should carry me to summer at least. This
>>is not going to be the fastest building job :-).
>>
>>Richard DeCosta suggests 564' of 1/4 x 1/2 in 6' lengths. Does
>>this fit in with other people's experiences?
>>
>>I think that all I will need for ribs are the 1/4 x 1/2, a quart
>>of T-88, and about 1 and 1/2 sheets of 1/16 ply. The gussets
>>will be stapled in place with 1/4" staples that I will pull out
>>when the epoxy cures. I got good at removing staples by building
>>a cedar strip canoe. Richard lists a few other sticks that I
>>don't think are needed until later. Are these the correct
>>materials to build a set of ribs?
>>
>>Aircraft Spruce and Specialty vs. Wicks or who whould I order my
>>wood from? I am still looking for a local Douglas Fir supplier
>>but am not having any luck. Since I will have to order wood I
>>may as well go with Sitka Spruce. I can resaw on a table saw if
>>needed. A local source in NY State, northeast Ohio or southern
>>Ontario would really help. Any suggestions?
>>
>>Dave Matthews
>>Retsof, NY
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov (Michael D Cuy) wrote:
Chuck- I used adjustable fork ends on all four struts- this way I could
adjust for dihedral and washout. I got a used set and had them
magnafluxed before installing them.
Mike,
Are these fork ends aircraft hardware? Cast aluminum, or magnesium? How much
experimenting have ya done with the adjustments on 'em? How much TT do ya
have on your 632 lb. Piet? How did ya keep the weight so low ? It's the
lightest one I've heard of, especially with brakes, and a tail wheel. Are
your wing struts extruded aluminum? Dija ever build those skis?
I'm driving home for Christmas, along RT. 70, to Wheeling, and I was wondering
if I could stop in and see your plane on my way back. Just a thought. Is
there anyone else that is close to the path I'm taking? (Rt. 70)
Chuck
"Man is made for error; it enters his mind naturally and he discovers a few
truths only with the greatest effort." ~~ Fredrick the Great ~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com> |
Hey Group:
Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using
Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop
specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading
edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.
climb or cruise pitch).
Keep building!
CJ Beck / Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
>Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov (Michael D Cuy) wrote:
>Chuck- I used adjustable fork ends on all four struts- this way I
could
>adjust for dihedral and washout. I got a used set and had them
>magnafluxed before installing them.
>
>Mike,
>Are these fork ends aircraft hardware? Cast aluminum, or magnesium?
0000,8080,8080The forks I used were AN aircraft
hardware- I'm assuming 4130
chromolly steel. They were from a set of J-3 Cub struts.w
How much
>experimenting have ya done with the adjustments on 'em?
0000,8080,8080Actually I adjusted them several
times during the first 10 hours
of flying time to get my Piet to fly hands off and to adjust the
dihedral. I had too much dihedral at first and I just didn't like
the looks of it, but yet didn't want to have the flat wing.
(ever seen a bird with flat wings ?) It does fly nicer hands off
with 1-2 degrees of dihedral than flat. (more stable for you
to fold charts, put your gloves on, etc.)
How much TT do ya
>have on your 632 lb. Piet? 0000,8080,808097
hours. How did ya keep the weight so low ? It's the
>lightest one I've heard of, especially with brakes, and a tail wheel.
0000,8080,8080I stuck to the plans. (mostly)
I've seen alot of builders who think
they are doing themselves good by 'beefing' up parts of their
project when if fact they are only adding unecessary ballast. Yes, I
agree, the tail surfaces seem cheezy, some other parts look weak,
but guess what ? It's been doing it for almost 70 years-no
problemo. 0000,8080,8080Oh- one other
thing: I used the light grade dacron and dope. No
need to use the heavier fabrics on your Piet unless you plan on it
being outside or operating off of rugged strips. This saved a ton of
weight..
Are your wing struts extruded aluminum?
0000,8080,8080I used (ouch $) 4130
streamlined chromolly stock from Dillsburg (PA) Aeroworks.
Brand new, big bucks, but I sleep pretty good at night or when I'm
taking someone's Father, brother, or Mother for a ride.
Dija ever build those skis?
0000,8080,8080Not yet, but it's still on Santa's
list !
>I'm driving home for Christmas, along RT. 70, to Wheeling, and I
was wondering
>if I could stop in and see your plane on my way back. Just a thought.
Is
>there anyone else that is close to the path I'm taking? (Rt. 70)
>
>Chuck0000,8080,8080 Sure ! I'm about 2 hours
north of Route 70, well make that
2.5 I guess from Columbus. I71 North to Route 303 Brunswick
exit. Go 15 min. thru Valley City, 7720 Center Road. (Center
Road = Route 303)
Merry Christmas !!!
>
>"Man is made for error; it enters his mind naturally and he discovers a
few
>truths only with the greatest effort." ~~ Fredrick the Great ~~
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ed Snyder & I put adjustable Piper fork ends on the rear struts only.
Where I found this most helpful was when I changed from a Ford to a
continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length of
the rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB )
Ed Snyder I put adjustable
Piper fork ends
on the rear struts only. Where I found this most helpful was when I
changed from
a Ford to a continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I
moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length
of the
rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ed Snyder & I put adjustable Piper fork ends on the rear struts only.
Where I found this most helpful was when I changed from a Ford to a
continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length of
the rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB )
Ed Snyder I put adjustable
Piper fork ends
on the rear struts only. Where I found this most helpful was when I
changed from
a Ford to a continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I
moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length
of the
rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs |
Not sure how he ships to the States. My wood came in 2 14foot sauna
tubes about 10 inches in diameter. Best bet is to phone him. Let it ring
as it sometimes takes a few.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William Conway <conwayw(at)ricks.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: airplane axles |
I use a 1" straight axle with an insert to strengthen the ends. I''m not
sure about the pipe used other than that it has thick walls. I also
widened the stance of the airplane a bit. I found that I had to add a
four inch vertical support on the bottom middle of the axle and then weld
a round rod (about 1/4") across it and back to near both ends to stiffen
it enough bear the weight. This has worked well although I have tweaked
the ends a little and my wheels lean in at the top a little bit from hard
landings when I first started flying the plane. This axle seems pretty
heavy and yet it isn't at all overbuilt.
For my motorcycle wheels I inserted a one inch bronze bushing the width
of the wheel, used several spacers made of pipe and through drilled with
an AN-3 bolt at the end to keep the whole affair on the axle. This has
worked very well, is simple. How it would hold up in a ground loop, I
don't know. But I think ok.
With your long overhang beyond the axle supports, I doubt that one inch
will do it unless it's pretty tought stuff.
>>> oil can 12/13 1:49 AM >>>
I've been looking at brakes lately, and have ,(kind of) decided to use
AZUSA 5" cable operated brakes, with a hand lever.
Tracy OBrien aircraft specialties....... tracy(at)localaccess.com sells
these AZUSA brakes modifyed for 3/4" axles. I'm wondering if my "ace"
at
1200 lbs gross wt. can be properly supported by 3/4" axles, or should I
go with 1", or 1 1/4 diam stuff??
Also should the axle be of solid material, or can I use thick walled
steel tubing? ( Ihave a metal lathe, and can thread these myself)
Keeping in mind that I'm building wire rim wheels, and the bearing
surface of the axle will be 6" + about 1" more for the threaded
part...are 3/4" axles strong enough?
ocb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ed Snyder & I put adjustable Piper fork ends on the rear struts only.
Where I found this most helpful was when I changed from a Ford to a
continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length of
the rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB )
Ed Snyder I put adjustable
Piper fork ends
on the rear struts only. Where I found this most helpful was when I
changed from
a Ford to a continental engine.To move the CG fwd ( lighter engine ) I
moved the
wing back 3.5 inches. The fork ends allowed me to adjust the length
of the
rear struts.
Mike B ( aircamper N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Looking for ply source |
Hi,
Has anyone out there found a good source for plywood other than the
stand-bys (Wicks and AS&S)? I'm in need of some 1/4" mahogany and some
1/8" birch ply to finish off the upper cabin work on the Christavia. I'm
in Calgary so Western Canadian sources as well as NW USA are preferable.
Thanks,
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
>Crew
>Lots of talk about working with wood/glue at low temperatures. Any
>problems I should be aware of when working at high temps (75-100F)?
>
>Gets kinda hot down here in the summer
>
>Thanks
>Rob
>
>OZ Piets: The only ones to fly inverted...
>
>Rob,
In Australia any epoxy that the manufacturer states is suitable for glueing
timber can be deemed to be approved as long as the manufacturers
INSTRUCTIONS are followed.I have used capital letters to emphasise the
point. RTBI- Read the bloody instructions! This applies to all of us!
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rrager(at)idir.net (Rager) |
>Please unsubscribe me from the Pietenpol Discussion group. I am presently
tied up with other commitments and the Piet in in the corner of the garage.
I have enjoyed the group and have learned alot of good stuff. Hopefully I
can get back on this summer when I will have more time to read the E-mail.
Thanks alot
Rick Rager
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for ply source |
Ken ,bought birch plywood from jean Peters in Calgary both 1.5mmand 3mm
finland birch don't know if he still has any or not.
Also bought marine mahogany from Windsor Plywood in Red Deer think it was
slightly thicker than 3/32 but just under 1/4.They had to order it,but it
is very nice stuff.Think they called it Kumme.
Was in Calgary on the 15&16 gave you a couple of calls on the phone last
night (15th),no one haome but the answering machine!
Doug Hunt
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Looking for ply source
> Date: December 15, 1998 4:22 PM
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone out there found a good source for plywood other than the
> stand-bys (Wicks and AS&S)? I'm in need of some 1/4" mahogany and some
> 1/8" birch ply to finish off the upper cabin work on the Christavia. I'm
> in Calgary so Western Canadian sources as well as NW USA are preferable.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing construction (on L.E.) |
Mike,
Thanks for the info. My Pietenpol partner, Doug Bryant, said he saw your
plane in Oshkosh, and told me ya won an award for plans built plane.
Congratulations !! I'll let ya know if I can stop in, on my flip-flop from
Wheeling. I would love to stop in, but I think I'll be pressed for time.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I also
put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110 corvair
and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests yeilded
2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I
haven't flown it yet.
My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speed
testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reached the
active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind I was
experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down since I
don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was
calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come in
heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,
Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and a lot
of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.
Regards,
Domenic Bellissimo
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 8:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff
>Hey Group:
>Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using
>Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop
>specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading
>edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.
>climb or cruise pitch).
>Keep building!
>CJ Beck / Wichita
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Due to the holidays and no computer...please
Unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for ply source |
Thanks, Windsor ply seems to have exactly what I need.
Thanks,
Ken
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, D.J.H. wrote:
> Ken ,bought birch plywood from jean Peters in Calgary both 1.5mmand 3mm
> finland birch don't know if he still has any or not.
> Also bought marine mahogany from Windsor Plywood in Red Deer think it was
> slightly thicker than 3/32 but just under 1/4.They had to order it,but it
> is very nice stuff.Think they called it Kumme.
> Was in Calgary on the 15&16 gave you a couple of calls on the phone last
> night (15th),no one haome but the answering machine!
>
>
> Doug Hunt
>
> ----------
> > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Looking for ply source
> > Date: December 15, 1998 4:22 PM
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Has anyone out there found a good source for plywood other than the
> > stand-bys (Wicks and AS&S)? I'm in need of some 1/4" mahogany and some
> > 1/8" birch ply to finish off the upper cabin work on the Christavia. I'm
> > in Calgary so Western Canadian sources as well as NW USA are preferable.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ken
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans question |
Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list. He
says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.
He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.
What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.
He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.
What size are the real plans.
Thanks
Gordon
RW1 Ultra Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <deandayton(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plans question |
I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St
Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else
bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.
I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter
of changing reproduction technology.
Does anyone else know better?
Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com
>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800
>From: Gordon Brimhall
>Subject: Re: Plans question
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
>
>
>Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list.
He
>says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.
>
>He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.
>
>What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.
>
>He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.
>
>What size are the real plans.
>
>Thanks
>
>Gordon
>RW1 Ultra Piet
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plans question |
Well I asked him if he had the real plans and if he could hold them tell Jan
1st and he said he could not so I told him to go FISH.
Gordon
PS I think he is selling copies of the real plans.
Dean Dayton wrote:
> I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St
> Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else
> bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.
>
> I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter
> of changing reproduction technology.
>
> Does anyone else know better?
>
> Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com
>
> >Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800
> >From: Gordon Brimhall
> >Subject: Re: Plans question
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
> >
> >
> >
> >Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list.
> He
> >says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.
> >
> >He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.
> >
> >What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.
> >
> >He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.
> >
> >What size are the real plans.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Gordon
> >RW1 Ultra Piet
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
TEST 1 2 3 Hello
Time 05:22 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Not about Piets but its about flying and Christmas.
Merry Christmas.
Bob Seibert
<< Twas the Night as the Night - by Phyllis Moses
Twas the night before Christmas, and out on the ramp,
Not an airplane was stirring, not even a Champ.
The aircraft were fastened to tiedowns with care,
In hopes that come morning, they all would be there.
The fuel trucks were nestled, all snug in their spots,
While peak gusts from two-zero reached 39 knots.
And I at the fuel desk, now finally caught up,
Had just settled comfortably down on my butt.
When over the radio, there arose such a clatter,
I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.
A voice clearly heard over static and snow,
Asked for clearance to land at the airport below.
He barked out his transmission so lively and quick,
I could have sworn the call sign he used was "St. Nick."
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Sure that it was only Horizon's late Dash.
Then he called his position, and there could be no denial,
"This is St. Nicholas One," and "I'm turning on final."
When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
A Rutan Sleigh and eight Rotax reindeer.
He flew the approach, on glideslopes he came,
As he passed all fixes, he called them by name:
"Now Rengo! Now Tolga! Now Trini and Bacun!
On Comet! On Cupid!" What pills was he takin'?
Those last couple of fixes left controllers confused,
They called down to the office to give me the news,
The message they left was both urgent and dour:
"When Santa lands, could he please call the tower?"
He landed like silk, with the sled runners sparkling,
Then I heard "Exit at Charlie," and "Taxi to parking."
So up to the offices the coursers they flew,
With loud airplane noise, and St. Nicholas, too.
He stepped out of the sleigh, but before he could talk,
I had run out to him with my best set of chocks.
He was dressed all in fur, which was covered with frost,
And his beard was all blackened from reindeer exhaust.
His breath smelled like peppermint, gone slightly stale,
And he smoked on a pipe, but he didn't inhale.
He had a broad face and his armpits were smelly,
And his boots were as black as a cropduster's belly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old fool,
And he kindly informed me that he needed some fuel.
A wink of his eye and a twist of his toes,
Led me to know he was desperate to powder his nose.
I spoke not a word, but went straight to my work,
And I filled up the sleigh, but I spilled like a jerk.
He came out of the restroom with a sigh of relief,
And then picked up the phone for a flight service brief.
And I thought, as he silently scribed in his log,
That with Rudolph, he could land in eighth-mile and fog.
Next, he completed his preflight, from the front to the rear,
Then he put on his headset, and I heard him yell "Clear!"
And laying a finger on his push-talk,
He called up the tower for his clearance and squawk.
"Straight out two-zero," the tower called forth,
"And watch for a Cessna straight in from the North."
But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he climbed in the night,
"Happy Christmas to all, I have traffic in sight."
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Santa Hombuilt? |
a nice piece of enjoyable reading.from the lack of traffic on this chat page
it apppears we were all deep into finishing up our Christmas shopping.
now that the shopping craze is completed I want to take a moment to wish one
and all of you Piet buffs a very merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous
new year.
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
>Not about Piets but its about flying and Christmas.
>Merry Christmas.
>Bob Seibert
>
><< Twas the Night as the Night - by Phyllis Moses
>
> Twas the night before Christmas, and out on the ramp,
> Not an airplane was stirring, not even a Champ.
> The aircraft were fastened to tiedowns with care,
> In hopes that come morning, they all would be there.
>
> The fuel trucks were nestled, all snug in their spots,
> While peak gusts from two-zero reached 39 knots.
> And I at the fuel desk, now finally caught up,
> Had just settled comfortably down on my butt.
> When over the radio, there arose such a clatter,
> I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.
>
> A voice clearly heard over static and snow,
> Asked for clearance to land at the airport below.
> He barked out his transmission so lively and quick,
> I could have sworn the call sign he used was "St. Nick."
>
> Away to the window I flew like a flash,
> Sure that it was only Horizon's late Dash.
> Then he called his position, and there could be no denial,
> "This is St. Nicholas One," and "I'm turning on final."
>
> When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
> A Rutan Sleigh and eight Rotax reindeer.
>
> He flew the approach, on glideslopes he came,
> As he passed all fixes, he called them by name:
> "Now Rengo! Now Tolga! Now Trini and Bacun!
> On Comet! On Cupid!" What pills was he takin'?
>
> Those last couple of fixes left controllers confused,
> They called down to the office to give me the news,
> The message they left was both urgent and dour:
> "When Santa lands, could he please call the tower?"
>
> He landed like silk, with the sled runners sparkling,
> Then I heard "Exit at Charlie," and "Taxi to parking."
> So up to the offices the coursers they flew,
> With loud airplane noise, and St. Nicholas, too.
>
> He stepped out of the sleigh, but before he could talk,
> I had run out to him with my best set of chocks.
>
> He was dressed all in fur, which was covered with frost,
> And his beard was all blackened from reindeer exhaust.
> His breath smelled like peppermint, gone slightly stale,
> And he smoked on a pipe, but he didn't inhale.
>
> He had a broad face and his armpits were smelly,
> And his boots were as black as a cropduster's belly.
>
> He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old fool,
> And he kindly informed me that he needed some fuel.
> A wink of his eye and a twist of his toes,
> Led me to know he was desperate to powder his nose.
>
> I spoke not a word, but went straight to my work,
> And I filled up the sleigh, but I spilled like a jerk.
>
> He came out of the restroom with a sigh of relief,
> And then picked up the phone for a flight service brief.
> And I thought, as he silently scribed in his log,
> That with Rudolph, he could land in eighth-mile and fog.
>
> Next, he completed his preflight, from the front to the rear,
> Then he put on his headset, and I heard him yell "Clear!"
> And laying a finger on his push-talk,
> He called up the tower for his clearance and squawk.
> "Straight out two-zero," the tower called forth,
> "And watch for a Cessna straight in from the North."
>
> But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he climbed in the night,
> "Happy Christmas to all, I have traffic in sight."
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Santa Hombuilt? |
Thanks Joe
I too want to wish all Piet People a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
My Wife has got all the goodies for the 7 GrandKids and I rec my three sets of
plans and also the 1932 Flying & Glider manual to me for Christmas.
So I am now building my Wing Rib Jig for both my Ultralite Piet and the Real
Piet.
Gordon
RW1 Baby Piet
Daddy Piet
fishin wrote:
> a nice piece of enjoyable reading.from the lack of traffic on this chat page
> it apppears we were all deep into finishing up our Christmas shopping.
> now that the shopping craze is completed I want to take a moment to wish one
> and all of you Piet buffs a very merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous
> new year.
> JoeC
> Zion, Illinois
>
> >Not about Piets but its about flying and Christmas.
> >Merry Christmas.
> >Bob Seibert
> >
> ><< Twas the Night as the Night - by Phyllis Moses
> >
> > Twas the night before Christmas, and out on the ramp,
> > Not an airplane was stirring, not even a Champ.
> > The aircraft were fastened to tiedowns with care,
> > In hopes that come morning, they all would be there.
> >
> > The fuel trucks were nestled, all snug in their spots,
> > While peak gusts from two-zero reached 39 knots.
> > And I at the fuel desk, now finally caught up,
> > Had just settled comfortably down on my butt.
> > When over the radio, there arose such a clatter,
> > I turned up the scanner to see what was the matter.
> >
> > A voice clearly heard over static and snow,
> > Asked for clearance to land at the airport below.
> > He barked out his transmission so lively and quick,
> > I could have sworn the call sign he used was "St. Nick."
> >
> > Away to the window I flew like a flash,
> > Sure that it was only Horizon's late Dash.
> > Then he called his position, and there could be no denial,
> > "This is St. Nicholas One," and "I'm turning on final."
> >
> > When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
> > A Rutan Sleigh and eight Rotax reindeer.
> >
> > He flew the approach, on glideslopes he came,
> > As he passed all fixes, he called them by name:
> > "Now Rengo! Now Tolga! Now Trini and Bacun!
> > On Comet! On Cupid!" What pills was he takin'?
> >
> > Those last couple of fixes left controllers confused,
> > They called down to the office to give me the news,
> > The message they left was both urgent and dour:
> > "When Santa lands, could he please call the tower?"
> >
> > He landed like silk, with the sled runners sparkling,
> > Then I heard "Exit at Charlie," and "Taxi to parking."
> > So up to the offices the coursers they flew,
> > With loud airplane noise, and St. Nicholas, too.
> >
> > He stepped out of the sleigh, but before he could talk,
> > I had run out to him with my best set of chocks.
> >
> > He was dressed all in fur, which was covered with frost,
> > And his beard was all blackened from reindeer exhaust.
> > His breath smelled like peppermint, gone slightly stale,
> > And he smoked on a pipe, but he didn't inhale.
> >
> > He had a broad face and his armpits were smelly,
> > And his boots were as black as a cropduster's belly.
> >
> > He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old fool,
> > And he kindly informed me that he needed some fuel.
> > A wink of his eye and a twist of his toes,
> > Led me to know he was desperate to powder his nose.
> >
> > I spoke not a word, but went straight to my work,
> > And I filled up the sleigh, but I spilled like a jerk.
> >
> > He came out of the restroom with a sigh of relief,
> > And then picked up the phone for a flight service brief.
> > And I thought, as he silently scribed in his log,
> > That with Rudolph, he could land in eighth-mile and fog.
> >
> > Next, he completed his preflight, from the front to the rear,
> > Then he put on his headset, and I heard him yell "Clear!"
> > And laying a finger on his push-talk,
> > He called up the tower for his clearance and squawk.
> > "Straight out two-zero," the tower called forth,
> > "And watch for a Cessna straight in from the North."
> >
> > But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he climbed in the night,
> > "Happy Christmas to all, I have traffic in sight."
> > >>
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
I guess this is the spot where we mention what kind of cool Piet stuff
Santa brought us this year. I ordered the 1/4 scale Piet plans from
RCM. Will put swing wings on it ! Anybody been flying in Montana?
Wind chill is -70
phil
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
>I guess this is the spot where we mention what kind of cool Piet stuff
>Santa brought us this year. I ordered the 1/4 scale Piet plans from
>RCM. Will put swing wings on it ! Anybody been flying in Montana?
>Wind chill is -70
I ordered my plans from Don Peitenpol - and got them too.
Now I am in the process of tracking down my wood source.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
How are those plans from RCM? I have thought about buiding that one, hoping
it would make a really cool but quick to build scale model.
Are they exact scale or pretty close?
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Date: Monday, December 21, 1998 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Holiday Toys
>I guess this is the spot where we mention what kind of cool Piet stuff
>Santa brought us this year. I ordered the 1/4 scale Piet plans from
>RCM. Will put swing wings on it ! Anybody been flying in Montana?
>Wind chill is -70
>phil
>
>--
>Check out Crusader Toys @
>http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Greetings to all |
Holiday greetings and blessings to all.
Crusader, where are you in the Treasure State? We lived in White Sulphur
Springs for ten years, then Bozeman for 18 mos. Our son and daughter in law
now live in Great Falls. They were in Standford for 7 years. I will be in
Great Falls (the Lord
Willings!) the week end of 17 January. Hope it is wamer.
Here in the banana belt of Eastern Neb. it was a cool 8 degrees, with a
wind chill of -13. I e mailed Tim last Friday and told him to shut the Freezer
Door. We looked at Great Falls weather today, wci was -30.
Enjoy the sharing on the net. There is a person in Weeping Water, Ne.
just starting a Piet. He bought one for $150 in the thirties and learned to
fly in it. He is having trouble locating a Model A. Engine. I will get his
name and address, and tell him of all the great help on the net. We have a
local Model A group called the Meadow Lark Model A Club, and I will link him
up with that group.
Enjoyed the controllers and Santa dialogue today.
Peace
Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
Dave and Connie wrote:
> >I guess this is the spot where we mention what kind of cool Piet stuff
> >Santa brought us this year. I ordered the 1/4 scale Piet plans from
> >RCM. Will put swing wings on it ! Anybody been flying in Montana?
> >Wind chill is -70
>
I have not got a RCM for a year, how much were the 1/4 scale plans and what
engine size was used? I have a spare old McCoy 40 RC BlueHead New in Box I
would like to put on an old design.
Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas ! |
>now that the shopping craze is completed I want to take a moment to wish
one and all of you Piet buffs a very merry Christmas and a happy and
prosperous
>new year.
>JoeC
>Zion, Illinois
Joe ! I second the motion here....or am I third ? I dunno, makes no
difference, Merry Christmas to all !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Raffaele:
I'm curious about the carving duplicator you mention (built from plans).
Would you give a little more info on it (source of plans, cost,
effectiveness,procedure, etc.). What type of material did you use for the
prop? Thanks.
Mark Boynton
Phoenix, AZ
> I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I
also
> put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110
corvair
> and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests
yeilded
> 2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I
> haven't flown it yet.
> My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speed
> testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reached
the
> active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind I
was
> experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down since
I
> don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was
> calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come in
> heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,
> Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and a
lot
> of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.
> Regards,
> Domenic Bellissimo
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 8:00 AM
> Subject: Re: prop stuff
>
>
> >Hey Group:
> >Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using
> >Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop
> >specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading
> >edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.
> >climb or cruise pitch).
> >Keep building!
> >CJ Beck / Wichita
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Greetings to all |
the Bozeman that you spoke of, was my grt grt grand father
robert bozeman
aircamper NX96EB
---LanhamOS(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Holiday greetings and blessings to all.
> Crusader, where are you in the Treasure State? We lived in White
Sulphur
> Springs for ten years, then Bozeman for 18 mos. Our son and daughter
in law
> now live in Great Falls. They were in Standford for 7 years. I will
be in
> Great Falls (the Lord
> Willings!) the week end of 17 January. Hope it is wamer.
> Here in the banana belt of Eastern Neb. it was a cool 8
degrees, with a
> wind chill of -13. I e mailed Tim last Friday and told him to shut
the Freezer
> Door. We looked at Great Falls weather today, wci was -30.
> Enjoy the sharing on the net. There is a person in Weeping
Water, Ne.
> just starting a Piet. He bought one for $150 in the thirties and
learned to
> fly in it. He is having trouble locating a Model A. Engine. I will
get his
> name and address, and tell him of all the great help on the net. We
have a
> local Model A group called the Meadow Lark Model A Club, and I will
link him
> up with that group.
> Enjoyed the controllers and Santa dialogue today.
> Peace
> Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let you
know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which seems
high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you drop
in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and its
amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a way
to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to just
fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will get
this part time pilot off his feet.
The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
degree right now)
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
Ok Phil, I have several plans from RCM in my collection and have built a few
planes from them. They are always of equally good quality and I don't recall
ever finding a mistake on any of them. I will definitely add a set of RC
Piet plans to go with my full size Piet plans. I would think a lot of Piet
owners would want to do a 1/4 scale model of their planes and the RC version
should have the same relative simplicity and would be easy to fly, even make
a good trainer. I too love the RC stuff, been flying 'em since the 70's.
Before that did FF and CL.
Merry Christmas everyone...
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 10:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Holiday Toys
>Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let you
>know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which seems
>high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you drop
>in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and its
>amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a way
>to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to just
>fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will get
>this part time pilot off his feet.
>The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
>phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
>degree right now)
>--
>Check out Crusader Toys @
>http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
>
Phil
thanks for the info on the 1/4 scale piet. Yes your right about cost no a days.
My Son bought me a B24 Bomber kit last year and I think it was 40 bucks and only
a large scale Gallows W48" Wing Span. Static Model.
I've been saving this 40 engine for over 44 yrs. I sold off a bunch of stuff two
yrs ago but still have lots of 12/5 12/6 etc props that age.
Been pretty slow on RC the last few years but would love to build a Baby Piet to
go along with my Ultralite Piet I am building now and then when I build the real
Piet I will have 2 Baby's and a Grand Daddy. If I build the 1/4 scale I
would put a camera in it as it is legal with my Ham Lic. I have the camera and
the Board from PC Electronics is not expensive, would just need a 440 MHZ rec to
get the video.
Too many projects but that is what keeps the old heart pumping.
Gordon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 10:14 AM
> Subject: Holiday Toys
>
> >Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let you
> >know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which seems
> >high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you drop
> >in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and its
> >amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a way
> >to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to just
> >fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will get
> >this part time pilot off his feet.
> >The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
> >phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
> >degree right now)
> >--
> >Check out Crusader Toys @
> >http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
Guess everything is more costly now a days.
With my plans from RagWing for the Ultra piet,( I guess I could scale them
down more for 1/4 scale.) I got 22 11 1/2" x 17" plans and a 24 page
builders manual.
All for 54.00 Shipping free First Class Mail, if I had not traded a computer
for three sets of plans.
So it will be interesting to see what your plans are like.
Gordon
RW1 Ultra Piet (Building)
Phil Peck wrote:
> Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let you
> know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which seems
> high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you drop
> in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and its
> amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a way
> to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to just
> fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will get
> this part time pilot off his feet.
> The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
> phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
> degree right now)
> --
> Check out Crusader Toys @
> http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
RCM Did have a forty size piet. As soon as I get my new plans catolag
i'll let you know more about it.
phil
Gordon Brimhall wrote:
> Guess everything is more costly now a days.
>
> With my plans from RagWing for the Ultra piet,( I guess I could scale
> them
> down more for 1/4 scale.) I got 22 11 1/2" x 17" plans and a 24 page
> builders manual.
> All for 54.00 Shipping free First Class Mail, if I had not traded a
> computer
> for three sets of plans.
>
> So it will be interesting to see what your plans are like.
>
> Gordon
> RW1 Ultra Piet (Building)
>
> Phil Peck wrote:
>
> > Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let
> you
> > know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which
> seems
> > high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you
> drop
> > in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and
> its
> > amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a
> way
> > to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to
> just
> > fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will
> get
> > this part time pilot off his feet.
> > The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
> > phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
> > degree right now)
> > --
> > Check out Crusader Toys @
> > http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | UUNet <jgw(at)village.uunet.be> |
As they say here in the French speaking part of Belgium.."Joyeux Noel" to
all of you Piet fans out there. I wish you all a happy holiday season and a
New Year full of Aircamper flight time!
Jim Wright
jgw(at)village.uunet.be
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 2:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas !
>>now that the shopping craze is completed I want to take a moment to wish
>one and all of you Piet buffs a very merry Christmas and a happy and
>prosperous
>>new year.
>>JoeC
>>Zion, Illinois
>
>
>Joe ! I second the motion here....or am I third ? I dunno, makes no
>difference, Merry Christmas to all !
>
>Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hey guys:
Merry Christmas & a happy Piet new year.
Mike B ( Aircamper N687MB )
Hey guys:
size4>
Merry Christmas a
happy Piet
new year.
size4>
Mike B ( Aircamper
N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
Mark,
Hi! I'm using my brother's computer and internet provider. His name is
Raffaele and mine is Domenico. The prop carving machine I built from plans
is advetized in sport Aviation:
Kite Industries, Dept. A-5, P.O. Box 2566, Glendale, AZ 85311-2566.
The cost is still $15.00 and says this can be done for $50.00, but the add
is more than 25 years old and the wording haas never been changed. I
estimate I spent about $200. I purchased new plywood (use 3/4"). I used
expensice pillow bearings for the carriage, he specified wood blocks with a
hole in it (not very accurate I don't think?). I had a steel cylinder and
plate welded together to mount the Prop. master and blank (two required). In
the middle of the cylinder at the plate a large 1/2 bolt was welded. The
thread should protrude above the height of the cylinder so you can tighten
down both the master and the blank and the height of the cylinder should be
below the height of any prop. you will be carving. After welding it was
trued square on a lathe. I used a router for the carving (1 H.P.), but you
really need 2 H.P. I actually burned a brand new one, which was replaced
because it was only 2 days old. The cutter was a one inch ball cutter
available at special order from an Italian manufacturer. I think Vermont
also makes them. For thte follower I used a 1" ball bearing which matches
the conteur of the cutter. If you can't find a one inch don't worry, use a
3/4" cutter. It will be better for the router anyway. The ball bearing was
epoxied into the end of a shaft of the same diameter. of course you have to
have the end of the shaft machined out to accept the ball shape. Make
absolutely sure the router can't move on you or you will end up with a
skewed prop. It can be saved but will be hard to balance.
To tell you the truth, I'm going to redesign from router use to dado blade.
It will go much faster in roughing out a blank and save me a router. Place
.015 to .020 tape on the Master to protect it from the pressure of the ball
bearing or the person you borrowed the master from may ask you to buy him
another. The presure will dent the finish. You only want to use the machine
to rough out only. The balance .015 to .020 thou. left to carve on the prop
is there for you to finish by hand. You'll need to draw 10 stations on each
side in the same locations on each side. You will need templates for each
individual station. You then sand and graduate from 80 to 600 grit and keep
checking each station with the templates. You should also read a prop.
carving book available from the EAA. Before you get to the last couple of
thousands of an inch you'll want to balance the prop. from side to side. Our
RAA chapter has a prop. balancing fixture. If you ask around I'll bet you
can find one. It's about 4 1/2 feet high. Has two round bars on each side,
supported by a frame structure all the way to the base. Tthe base has four
adjustable feet. This is so you can Level it with a spirit level. this is
very important. When I prepared my blank I inserted a steel cylinder inside
the prop. hole from the base of the prop. to about half way up the hole and
equal to the height of the prop. hub. This insert will mate steel to steel
and prevent any wood burn which is evident on many props. The base of the
prop. also has countersunk holes to pick up "Lycoming type" (can't remember
what they are called) studs (for a lack of a better word). These "studs" are
what the proppeller bolts screw into. The radial stress/work is performed by
these studs and not the prop. bolts. The bolts need only hold the prop. onto
the hub. I hope I have been of some help, and not too winded. Of all the
work done on the Piet. the prop. was the most challanging mentally. It has
to be done right or else...
Regards,
Domenic
-----Original Message-----
From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 9:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prop stuff
>Raffaele:
>
>I'm curious about the carving duplicator you mention (built from plans).
>Would you give a little more info on it (source of plans, cost,
>effectiveness,procedure, etc.). What type of material did you use for the
>prop? Thanks.
>
>Mark Boynton
>Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
>> I carved mine with the help of Jack Watson on a carving duplicator I
>also
>> put together from plans. Then Jack did the finishing. It's for a 110
>corvair
>> and it's 66"X32" others I've heard are using 66"X30". Static tests
>yeilded
>> 2560 RPM. Don't yet know what the max. RPM will be when it unloads. I
>> haven't flown it yet.
>> My latest update: This past week-end I was doing some low to medium speed
>> testing on the inactive runway, but had to reduce speed before I reached
>the
>> active runway. Seems to track real good even with the heavy cross wind I
>was
>> experiencing. It got real light one time but I had to keep it down since
>I
>> don't have4 my flight permit yet. My weight and balance report was
>> calculated by Brian Kenney. Everything looks good, although I did come in
>> heavy for my empty weight at 807lbs. But then I've got a starter,
>> Alternator, finned oil pan and head covers, 12 US gal. fuel tank and a
>lot
>> of wiring. I'm confident that it will be a good performer.
>> Regards,
>> Domenic Bellissimo
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 8:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: prop stuff
>>
>>
>> >Hey Group:
>> >Engine block is done for Corvair Piet so need to get prop going. Using
>> >Vi K's aluminum hub assembly. Please give me your opinions on prop
>> >specifics (diam. + pitch). Any thoughts on glass vs. metal leading
>> >edges? Thinking compromise pitch best since have 110 horses avail. (vs.
>> >climb or cruise pitch).
>> >Keep building!
>> >CJ Beck / Wichita
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
That's a good price ($18.00) , it cost me about $65.00 canadian to have a
set profesionally re-printed from a set I discovered in Halifax.
Domenic
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 11:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Holiday Toys
>Gordon,Mike, I expect to get those plans any day now. Will let you
>know what I think of them. They where $18.00 plus shipping Which seems
>high until you stop to figuare out how much else everything is you drop
>in a 1/4 scale model. I have been working on a 1/4 scale cub and its
>amazing what you need just for it. But I love RC . And I see it as a way
>to fly without getting my feet off the ground. Some people like to just
>fly, others like to just build. Though I think a full size Piet will get
>this part time pilot off his feet.
>The 40 size engine is not big enough. You will probably need a 90.
>phil ( Crusader lives at the tip of California where it is only 8
>degree right now)
>--
>Check out Crusader Toys @
>http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs - followup |
>Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks did
>I discover this source:
>
>Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
>Calgary, Alberta Canada
>(403)250-1955
>
>
I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a
fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce
only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30
crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because
it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit
cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a
postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like
a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit
but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them.
I am still hoping to find a local source (western, NY) but am not
holding out much hope. My next step is to come up with a complete
mill list for the wing and price it out with the normal sources.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs - followup |
Hi folks, theres 3 Peits in southwest Mo. built from wood from Jean
Peters, Western Aircraft Supply he realy know his wood!!!!We all
bought our wood 3 or 4 yrs ago so the fuse was 350.00 and wing was
550.00 so yall should by your wood soon cause it just gets higher all
the time......
Robert B.
---Dave and Connie wrote:
>
> >Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks
did
> >I discover this source:
> >
> >Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
> >Calgary, Alberta Canada
> >(403)250-1955
> >
> >
>
> I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a
> fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce
> only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30
> crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because
> it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit
> cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a
> postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like
> a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit
> but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them.
>
> I am still hoping to find a local source (western, NY) but am not
> holding out much hope. My next step is to come up with a complete
> mill list for the wing and price it out with the normal sources.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
Merry Christmas to all !!!
In the Dec. issue of Model Airplane News magazine, there is an article about,
what else, the Pietenpol Air Camper !! One of the pictures of the full
scale, shows the aileron cables on top, on the exterior of the wing. What's
up with that? I would think it would cause some buzzing noises, as well as
disrupt the airflow over the wing. The tail number is 626...I think this is
one of first planes that Bernie built. It also has a hinged cut-out for pilot
entry. I'm seriously thinking of doing the cut-out thing in my wing,
especially if Bernie says it's alright.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
The RW1 Ultra Pietenpol has the cables come up on top of the wing. Seems not to
bother anything at all. But then I have only seen the movies so far. Don't
remember how the real piet does it, will have to look at the plans again.
My store for the RCM quit selling it and I only was buying issues that had things
that interested me. I hate reading the same adds over and over.
Dec would be a keeper.
Gordon
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all !!!
>
> In the Dec. issue of Model Airplane News magazine, there is an article about,
> what else, the Pietenpol Air Camper !! One of the pictures of the full
> scale, shows the aileron cables on top, on the exterior of the wing. What's
> up with that? I would think it would cause some buzzing noises, as well as
> disrupt the airflow over the wing. The tail number is 626...I think this is
> one of first planes that Bernie built. It also has a hinged cut-out for pilot
> entry. I'm seriously thinking of doing the cut-out thing in my wing,
> especially if Bernie says it's alright.
>
> Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Holiday Toys |
>Merry Christmas to all !!!
>
>In the Dec. issue of Model Airplane News magazine, there is an article about,
>what else, the Pietenpol Air Camper !! One of the pictures of the full
>scale, shows the aileron cables on top, on the exterior of the wing. What's
>up with that?
Chuck- That's how Bernie ran the aileron cables on the early Air Camper's
and the Scouts. The Scouts are generally still built like that. Earl Myer's
new Scout here in OH has this same configuration.
I would think it would cause some buzzing noises, as well as
>disrupt the airflow over the wing. The tail number is 626...I think this is
>one of first planes that Bernie built. It also has a hinged cut-out for pilot
>entry. I'm seriously thinking of doing the cut-out thing in my wing,
>especially if Bernie says it's alright.
Chuck- No matter who says what about the wing cutout/flop, etc. you
certainly will save on your Chiropracter bills by putting one in. The talk
about loss of lift, turbulence over the tail is a bunch of bunk. I have a
cutout with a handhold and the plane flies just fine. Build light, climb
good.
Mike C.
>Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Origin of plans? |
A few days ago there was a thread about the origin of "blue line" and "white
line" plans. I looked at a set I recently aquired from a friend and found
that they are what I would call "black line". Definitely not blueprints of
any kind, more like printed on a press. I am guessing my friend bought these
in the seventies but cannot reach him to ask. Anybody know the vintage of
these plans?
-----Original Message-----
From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs - followup
>Hi folks, theres 3 Peits in southwest Mo. built from wood from Jean
>Peters, Western Aircraft Supply he realy know his wood!!!!We all
>bought our wood 3 or 4 yrs ago so the fuse was 350.00 and wing was
>550.00 so yall should by your wood soon cause it just gets higher all
>the time......
>
>Robert B.
>
>
>---Dave and Connie wrote:
>>
>> >Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks
>did
>> >I discover this source:
>> >
>> >Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
>> >Calgary, Alberta Canada
>> >(403)250-1955
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a
>> fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce
>> only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30
>> crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because
>> it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit
>> cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a
>> postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like
>> a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit
>> but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them.
>>
>> I am still hoping to find a local source (western, NY) but am not
>> holding out much hope. My next step is to come up with a complete
>> mill list for the wing and price it out with the normal sources.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:56 AM
Sir;
I have a Scout that has all external wing control cables and the flop
in the center section, offset as per the plans. It hasn't flown yet so I
can't comment on the buzzing. The first "editions" of the Air Campers
had the external wires too. The "improved" A/C came with the internal
wires. There is a "replica" of "626" at Rhinebeck (THE WW1 airfield). I
did not notice any odd wire noise with that when it flew by.........DO
install the flop as it makes life easier on ingress/egress.......
Earl Myers
Scout builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Aileron Cables |
Interesting about external aileron cables. This would solve some
problems.
As to sound, there are plenty of other wires on the Piet to pick upsound, and
nothin is swetter than flying in an open cockpit plane and hearing the sounds.
One can also began to identify airspeed after a while.
The J 2 Cub had partially exposed aileron cables.
The famous Curtiss JN 4 Jenny also had exposed cables. In this case
the cables were on the leading edge of the upper wings. This must have created
a lot of unecessary drag, and loss of lift. Incidentally, the JN 4 was the
inspiration Bernie, as he writes in the Flying and Glider article about the
gear of the Piet being as strong as
the one in the Jenny, and one need not shock cords! The airfoil profile is
also close to the Eiffel of the JN 4.
Peace today. Keep em Flying Dr. Orville Lanham
Still in the icebox of Eastern Nebraska.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Jim:
Comment ca se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom Wright
n'est pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain, mais nais
en France de parents Americain).
Mark Boynton
Phoenix, Arizona
> As they say here in the French speaking part of Belgium.."Joyeux Noel" to
> all of you Piet fans out there. I wish you all a happy holiday season and
a
> New Year full of Aircamper flight time!
>
> Jim Wright
> jgw(at)village.uunet.be
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 2:35 PM
> Subject: Merry Christmas !
>
>
> >>now that the shopping craze is completed I want to take a moment to
wish
> >one and all of you Piet buffs a very merry Christmas and a happy and
> >prosperous
> >>new year.
> >>JoeC
> >>Zion, Illinois
> >
> >
> >Joe ! I second the motion here....or am I third ? I dunno, makes
no
> >difference, Merry Christmas to all !
> >
> >Mike C.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
<<
>Jim:
>
>Comment ca se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom
Wright
>n'est pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain, mais
nais
>en France de parents Americain).
>
>Mark Boynton
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
Mon Dieu, les Franchophones sur le Piet net. Quois en plus!
Mike B ( Piet N 687MB
size4>Jim:Comment ca
se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom
Wrightn'est
pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain, mais
naisen France de parents Americain).Mark
BoyntonPhoenix, Arizona
Mon Dieu, les Franchophones sur le
Piet net.
Quois en plus!
Mike B ( Piet N
687MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Southwick <ksouth(at)urjet.net> |
I may be the only Cajun Piet enthusiast, so I just gotta ask: Mais,
cher, can you talk like dat while you flyin'? Be car-ful, yeah...
Kevin Southwick
Houston, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 6:56 PM
Subject: salut
<<
>Jim:
>
>Comment ca se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom
Wright
>n'est pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain,
mais nais
>en France de parents Americain).
>
>Mark Boynton
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
Mon Dieu, les Franchophones sur le Piet net. Quois en plus!
Mike B ( Piet N 687MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Mike:
Ils sont par tout!
Mark Boynton
Phoenix, Arizona
> <<
> >Jim:
> >
> >Comment ca se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom
> Wright
> >n'est pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain, mais
> nais
> >en France de parents Americain).
> >
> >Mark Boynton
> >Phoenix, Arizona
> >
>
>
> Mon Dieu, les Franchophones sur le Piet net. Quois en plus!
>
> Mike B ( Piet N 687MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
Ever since UPS got here today I have be grinning all day. Got my epoxy
from Systems three and put some on the stitch an glue boat( I also got
extra for my piet) I like it . My wife wanted to know how come it
doesn't smell !
Then I got my 1/4 scale piet plans plus the new RCM plan book. every
modeler or airplane buff should get the plan book The new plan book has
pictures and a short discription. The 1/4 plans are nice and it looks
easy to build. Anyone looking to build a real piet but won't get around
to it for a while could satisfy some of piet energy by building the
model even if you don't build it for RC. At first I thought the piet
looked small for 1/4 scale but the wing is 84" Though 1/3 scale would
be nicer. Just things to think about when the relatives are starting to
wear thin !
phil
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 scale Piet |
That sounds nice.
But what did you actually get for 18 bucks on the Piet plans?
Like how many sheets of plans, How many pages in the builders manual?
Gordon
Phil Peck wrote:
> Ever since UPS got here today I have be grinning all day. Got my epoxy
> from Systems three and put some on the stitch an glue boat( I also got
> extra for my piet) I like it . My wife wanted to know how come it
> doesn't smell !
> Then I got my 1/4 scale piet plans plus the new RCM plan book. every
> modeler or airplane buff should get the plan book The new plan book has
> pictures and a short discription. The 1/4 plans are nice and it looks
> easy to build. Anyone looking to build a real piet but won't get around
> to it for a while could satisfy some of piet energy by building the
> model even if you don't build it for RC. At first I thought the piet
> looked small for 1/4 scale but the wing is 84" Though 1/3 scale would
> be nicer. Just things to think about when the relatives are starting to
> wear thin !
> phil
>
> --
> Check out Crusader Toys @
> http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
Mike, and All!
A ringing endorsement from me on the Holiday Wishes! The best to all!
...and now, a question. I am ready to build my center section, but am not
sure which fittings to use. I understand that one design has virtually no gap
between the center section and the outer wing panel. Vi Kappler sez his has a
two inch gap, which must be faired or covered and doped over. The Grega
fittings have a substantial gap, also. So finally, the question: Any
preferences? Happy Holidays to all!
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
Same story with me. Got spruce from Jean Peters, Western A/C Supplies. The best
I've seen. Excellent service. Highly recommended.
Leo
--
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:39 PM
>Subject: Re: Ordered my plans, going to build ribs - followup
>
>
>>Hi folks, theres 3 Peits in southwest Mo. built from wood from Jean
>>Peters, Western Aircraft Supply he realy know his wood!!!!We all
>>bought our wood 3 or 4 yrs ago so the fuse was 350.00 and wing was
>>550.00 so yall should by your wood soon cause it just gets higher all
>>the time......
>>
>>Robert B.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---Dave and Connie wrote:
>>>
>>> >Only AFTER I had ordered all of my rib & tail materials from Wicks
>>did
>>> >I discover this source:
>>> >
>>> >Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
>>> >Calgary, Alberta Canada
>>> >(403)250-1955
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a
>>> fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce
>>> only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30
>>> crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because
>>> it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit
>>> cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a
>>> postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like
>>> a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit
>>> but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them.
>>>
>>> I am still hoping to find a local source (western, NY) but am not
>>> holding out much hope. My next step is to come up with a complete
>>> mill list for the wing and price it out with the normal sources.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
You tellin me there's gonna be Cajuns up there?
>Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:19:32 -0600
>From: Kevin Southwick <ksouth(at)urjet.net>
>Subject: Re: salut
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
>
>I may be the only Cajun Piet enthusiast, so I just gotta ask: Mais,
>cher, can you talk like dat while you flyin'? Be car-ful, yeah...
>
>Kevin Southwick
>Houston, Texas
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 6:56 PM
> Subject: salut
>
>
> <<
> >Jim:
> >
> >Comment ca se fait que vous etes en Belgique pour la Noel? Le nom
=
>Wright
> >n'est pas Belgique n'est ce pas? Bonne Annee (je suis Americain,
=
>mais nais
> >en France de parents Americain).
> >
> >Mark Boynton
> >Phoenix, Arizona
> >
>
>
> Mon Dieu, les Franchophones sur le Piet net. Quois en plus!
>
> Mike B ( Piet N 687MB
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> |
Got my first edition of the BPA newsletter today, after joining.
Great publication: all those people dedicated to just one plane! I
gotta get myself building.
Anyway, as we say down here: throw another shrimp on the barbie and
have yourself a coupla cool beers to keep the temps in the green.
Survive the in-laws and happy flying to all.
Rob
Oz Piets: the only ones to fly inverted...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Don wrote:
There is zero clearence between the center section spars & the wing
spars.
I assume you are asking about the clearence between the butt rib & the
center section rib. In my opinion, it is not critical. In any case, it
is covered with a fairing. I've got stuff running thru that gap such as
pitot tubing & antennae cables.
Mike B (Piet 687MB )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote:
>
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everybody! Gary price has designed
a three pice wing with no gap. Nice design.
John Duprey
> Mike, and All!
> A ringing endorsement from me on the Holiday Wishes! The best to all!
> ...and now, a question. I am ready to build my center section, but am not
> sure which fittings to use. I understand that one design has virtually no gap
> between the center section and the outer wing panel. Vi Kappler sez his has
a
> two inch gap, which must be faired or covered and doped over. The Grega
> fittings have a substantial gap, also. So finally, the question: Any
> preferences? Happy Holidays to all!
> Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Western A/C supply |
Does western a/c/ have a web page? If not, do they have a no. where I
can get a catalog?
I've obtained a rib jig, and no longer can find a reason not to get
started. What about basswood, or clear white pine? These are the first
of about a million questions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
John,
Thanx for the info. I've seen pics of Gary's Piet. Is he in the Piet "chat"
group? If not, does anyone have an address for him? The wing plan sounds
interesting, and I like his side door for the front 'pit.
Again, Season's Greetings, Ho! Ho! Ho!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Western A/C supply |
No web page or email.
> Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies
> Calgary, Alberta Canada
> (403)250-1955
or Western Hemlock if you don't go for Spruce.
When I called Jean I had to leave a message. He got back to
me the next day. He suggested calling after 10:00 am Alberta
time.
Dave
>Does western a/c/ have a web page? If not, do they have a no. where I
>can get a catalog?
>
>I've obtained a rib jig, and no longer can find a reason not to get
>started. What about basswood, or clear white pine? These are the first
>of about a million questions.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> John,
> Thanx for the info. I've seen pics of Gary's Piet. Is he in the Piet "chat"
> group? If not, does anyone have an address for him? The wing plan sounds
> interesting, and I like his side door for the front 'pit.
> Again, Season's Greetings, Ho! Ho! Ho!
> Don
I will get his adress and post it. Yes his ship is very nice and the
door is great.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
Gary Price Phone# (603) 964-6749
Plans for three piece wing
Cockpit door
no gap aleron
________________________________________________________________________________
Don,
Refresh my memory. When did I ever mention those two words in the same
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 scale Piet |
Gordon Brimhall wrote:
> That sounds nice.
> But what did you actually get for 18 bucks on the Piet plans?
>
> Like how many sheets of plans, How many pages in the builders manual?
>
> Gordon
The plans come in a 3 x 12' sheet. The first thing I did was
cut them in half ! If you have scratch build any thing before the Piet
will be easy. One would be tempted to blow up these plans to build a
real piet. It shows a sixty size four cycle so your forty might work
if you fly the piet real real scale. But I wouldn't try it. The piet is
pretty simple and every detail seems there. The wing rib airfoil is not
scale. But I can't see any other differance from the full scale plans.
(though I think my wife hid my full size one's as I can't seem to find
them !) The instructions are the construcion article in RCM magizine
July 82. I think the plans are well worth the money. If you had a copy
of RCM july 82 you could see the plans.phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Western A/C supply |
Bass wood for what? Gussets? According to my wicks catalog, basswood is
sold in 1/16 thickness, so I.....ASSUME .....that it is acceptable for
gussets. From all my reading, basswood has never been mentioned as
acceptable aircraft wood for structures. Pine is acceptable however
(from my reading) but it is only 85% as strong, so must be assembled in
parts that are 15% thicker to make up the strength difference in spruce.
If you are new to the list, get the book EAA Aircraft building
techniques in wood. From EAA, or order from local bookstore . about
20.00 . A very good refrence.
ocb
>From steve(at)byu.edu Thu Dec 24 07:41:23 1998
>Received: from adena.byu.edu ("port 3792"@adena.byu.edu
[128.187.22.180])
> by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-29 #31181)
> with ESMTP id <01J5PKD8AJ9S8WW34C(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com;
>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:38:41 -0800 (PST)
>From: Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: Western A/C supply
>Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Errors-to: Steve(at)byu.edu
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>Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
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>
>Does western a/c/ have a web page? If not, do they have a no. where I
>can get a catalog?
>
>I've obtained a rib jig, and no longer can find a reason not to get
>started. What about basswood, or clear white pine? These are the
first
>of about a million questions.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4 scale Piet |
If you have full size Piet plans, you should have built your RC model
from those... I bought the plans for thr Bouncil Super Prospector, and
was fully intent on building that when I made the better decision and
built my super ace instead. Made good use of the prospector plans
though, as I built a scale model in rubber power stright from the plans.
22in wing, and it did fly very well for some time. It is now retired to
the ceiling of my living room.
ocb
>From steve(at)byu.edu Thu Dec 24 16:24:18 1998
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>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:24:02 -0800
>From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
>Subject: Re: 1/4 scale Piet
>Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
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>Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
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>
>Gordon Brimhall wrote:
>
>> That sounds nice.
>> But what did you actually get for 18 bucks on the Piet plans?
>>
>> Like how many sheets of plans, How many pages in the builders manual?
>>
>> Gordon
>
> The plans come in a 3 x 12' sheet. The first thing I did was
>cut them in half ! If you have scratch build any thing before the Piet
>will be easy. One would be tempted to blow up these plans to build a
>real piet. It shows a sixty size four cycle so your forty might work
>if you fly the piet real real scale. But I wouldn't try it. The piet
is
>pretty simple and every detail seems there. The wing rib airfoil is
not
>scale. But I can't see any other differance from the full scale plans.
>(though I think my wife hid my full size one's as I can't seem to find
>them !) The instructions are the construcion article in RCM magizine
>July 82. I think the plans are well worth the money. If you had a copy
>of RCM july 82 you could see the plans.phil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Oil Can wrote:
<. From all my reading, basswood has never been mentioned as
I believe that Charlie Rubick (sic) have been making & selling bass wood
ribs for years.
Mike B ( Piet N687MB)
Oil Can wrote:
. From all my reading, basswood has never
been
mentioned as acceptable aircraft wood for
structures.
I believe that Charlie Rubick (sic) have been
making
selling bass wood ribs for years.
Mike B ( Piet
N687MB)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen(at)davies.mv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Western A/C supply |
>I've obtained a rib jig, and no longer can find a reason not to get
>started. What about basswood, or clear white pine? These are the
>first of about a million questions.
I've heard basswood suggested before, but have never checked its
properties myself. What I've always heard is that it does not have
the strength-to-weight ratio of an aircraft-quality softwood. Seems
to me that one particular property was well understrength, but I can't
recall which.
As for white pine, it's a certified aircraft wood, provided it meets
the usual requirements for ring density, runout, and so on. You'll
find them in CAM 18 or AC 43.13a (not sure about that last number,
but it's easily found.) It's around 15 percent less strong than spruce,
so it is not a direct size-for-size replacement. However, the Piet
is so over-stressed you could probably build the whole thing from
pine. My own approach would be to build the wing ribs (way over-
sized) and lightly stressed components from pine and use either
spruce or Doug fir for the longerons, landing gear, and the pieces
that pick up the forces from the gear, struts, and engine mount.
In fact, I decided long ago to build my Piet that way, whenever I
get to do it, based on the advice of an engineer friend who found
his all-fir Aircamper turned out a bit tail-heavy. Never heard anything
that would lead me to doubt this approach.
Owen Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Raffaele Bellissimo <rbelliss(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
Hi Don,
I used Vi's plans and there is a two inch gap. I fitted small #8 nut plates
on the root rid top and bottom. I then made a 5" wide strip of Soft
commercial grade aluminum and wrapped it around the gap. It's worked out
fine.
Regards,
Domenic
-----Original Message-----
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 11:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Merry Christmas !
>Mike, and All!
>A ringing endorsement from me on the Holiday Wishes! The best to all!
>...and now, a question. I am ready to build my center section, but am not
>sure which fittings to use. I understand that one design has virtually no
gap
>between the center section and the outer wing panel. Vi Kappler sez his
has a
>two inch gap, which must be faired or covered and doped over. The Grega
>fittings have a substantial gap, also. So finally, the question: Any
>preferences? Happy Holidays to all!
>Don Cooley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Calendar Correction |
John Duprey. Please take a look at the date on your PC.
you seem to be a week ahead of me. I know I am dense, but
that's another story. today is 12/25 (Merry Christmas) and
your email is dated 12/31 (Happy New Year). I only mention
it because my mail is sorted by date. and bad dates plays
havoc with the sequence.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gary Price Info |
Thanx!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
Ron,
I don't recollect, 'zactly, but I was just funnin! Hope your Christmas was a
merry one!
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmas ! |
Dominic,
Thank you for the suggestion. I'll take it into consideration in my decision.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Western A/C supply |
Our local home dept store has a stack of basswood molding strips 1/8" x 1" x
48" for 49 cents each.
Gordon
oil can wrote:
> Bass wood for what? Gussets? According to my wicks catalog, basswood is
> sold in 1/16 thickness, so I.....ASSUME .....that it is acceptable for
> gussets. From all my reading, basswood has never been mentioned as
> acceptable aircraft wood for structures. Pine is acceptable however
> (from my reading) but it is only 85% as strong, so must be assembled in
> parts that are 15% thicker to make up the strength difference in spruce.
> If you are new to the list, get the book EAA Aircraft building
> techniques in wood. From EAA, or order from local bookstore . about
December 03, 1998 - December 26, 1998
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-al