Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ao

February 07, 1999 - March 15, 1999



      doesn't want to accept an answer just because somebody says that it is
      so.
      If I am just call me mister skeptic.
      
      Ron
      Gipson
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
PI>I don't know a whole lot about the Ford A engine, but It seems that I PI>remember somewhere about a fellow who put his radiator at the chin PI>location. ( at the bottom next to the fire wall. If you look in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual there are pictures of one or two old piets that had radiators mounted under the engine, and I seem to remember that I read somewhere that Bernard Pietenpol did it on one of the models he built. I'm sure it can be made to work. I would recommend to anyone who is thinking of an automotive engine setup that you subscribe to Contact! magazine put together by Mick Myal. It has a great deal of excellent material. In particular, for radiator placement and considerations that lead to good cooling, there is an article in the July-August, 1998 issue ( #45 ) by Hans Mayer that will really help you. His address: Contact! email address: contact1(at)flash.net new website: www.NonProfitNet.com/CONTACT/ The website also contains a list of all the back issues and their contents. When I was at Oshkosh two years ago I subscribed ( $20 a year ) and paid something like $75 for all of the back issues. Now that is a lot of money to me, and I agonized a long time before I decided to do it. I have not been disappointed one bit. By the way, Mick himself is working on a plane (I don't recall what type) in which he is installing a Geo/Suzuki 1.3 L. 4-cyl. That is one of the engines I am most seriously considering for my Piet, and he is going to have some articles about it soon. John F. in Peoria ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Owen Davies <owen(at)davies.mv.com>
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Among other comments, Ron Gipson noted: >Years ago, my brother and I built a replica Eidecker. The ribs were >gussetted with mahogany door skins. The glue we used was yellow carpenter >glue. Scuffing? Whats scuffing? I think if you try to pull a gussett off >one of your rib joints that has been glued with T-88 you will find the >integrity much greater than any joint in the entire plane we built and flew >in the early 1960s. I know it's a little off-topic, but I'd love to know more (lots more!) about that Eindecker. Always wanted one. Owen Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lee L. Schiek" <concrete(at)qtm.net>
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Over the years, I've had discussions with Vi Kapler & others at Brodhed about this, 'cause it's what I wanted to do. Considerations are: 1. Moving radiator, coolant & plumbing radically changes c.g., so plan for it: 2. Extra drag associated with ducting & cowling - you have to do some engineering to balance airflow requirements vs. parasite drag - maybe O.K. with more modern liquid cooled engines, but with an 'A' or 'B' you're pretty close to the power-edge already. 3. Loss of thermosyphon effect ie: coolant will not circulate in "heat rises" fashion if your water pump takes a powder, so landing decisions are time-compressed. Seems like Bernie had it right all along. I'd STILL like to explore a radiator relocation, but I'd like to see data & info on a thru-the-prop, al la Jenny approach. Low & Slow, Lee in MI Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote: > PI>I don't know a whole lot about the Ford A engine, but It seems that I > PI>remember somewhere about a fellow who put his radiator at the chin > PI>location. ( at the bottom next to the fire wall. > > If you look in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual there are pictures of > one or two old > piets that had radiators mounted under the engine, and I seem to > remember that I > read somewhere that Bernard Pietenpol did it on one of the models he > built. I'm sure > it can be made to work. I would recommend to anyone who is thinking of > an automotive > engine setup that you subscribe to Contact! magazine put together by > Mick Myal. It > has a great deal of excellent material. In particular, for radiator > placement and > considerations that lead to good cooling, there is an article in the > July-August, 1998 > issue ( #45 ) by Hans Mayer that will really help you. > > His address: Contact! > > email address: contact1(at)flash.net > > new website: www.NonProfitNet.com/CONTACT/ > > The website also contains a list of all the back issues and their > contents. When I was > at Oshkosh two years ago I subscribed ( $20 a year ) and paid something > like $75 for > all of the back issues. Now that is a lot of money to me, and I > agonized a long time > before I decided to do it. I have not been disappointed one bit. > By the way, Mick > himself is working on a plane (I don't recall what type) in which he is > installing a > Geo/Suzuki 1.3 L. 4-cyl. That is one of the engines I am most > seriously considering > for my Piet, and he is going to have some articles about it soon. > > John F. in Peoria ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
On pages 18 & 19 of the 1933 Flying Manual is an excellent description, including drawings, of the Gere Sport Biplane's use of a wing mounted header tank and a cowling mounted radiator, using a Ford or Chevy engine. Seemed to work well and be popular. Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Install the radiator where Bernie did, and you will be a HAPPY CAMPER !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Rib strength & testing
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Hi All! Here's my $.02 worth on ribs & testing! I found my copy of the 1962 FAA Basic Glider Criteria handbook - a lot of good info on figuring loads, etc. for flying machines in our speed range! There is a section that describes how to load a wing rib. If the wing fabric is attached by using rib stiching, the rib may be loaded on the bottom cap strip ( in the test the rib is mounted upside down on stub spars & the test loads are applied to the bottom cap strip) The loads are to be 125% the ultimate air load (125% x 4 - 4.5 g's?) each rib will handle (rib spacing x chord will give the sq. ft. each rib is supporting (1ft rib spacing x 5 ft chord = 5 sq ft x ult load per sq ft x 125% = load per rib -- my math gave about 40.75 # sq. ft.-- 1050# gross / 145 sq ft wing area = 7.25# sq. ft. x 4.5 x 1.25) This is about 204# applied to your test rib! This load is divided up into (16) equal loads (12 3/4# each) that are applied at various points along the rib -- most of the points are on the front 1/2 of the rib. (i.e at .007, .02, .04, .063, .080, .114, .148, .185, .228, .272, .327, .38, .448, .528, .72, .9 the chord length) The loads can be applied to the rib thru 1" blocks to prevent local capstrip faliure. Interesting stuff -- don't know how much of this load a Piet rib will handle -- the test engineers I worked with always said that if the part didn't break, the test wasn't a good one (it was better to have a failure than not -- if the part survived, you didn't know if it was 5% or 200% stronger than it needed to be!) Mike Conkling Pretty Prairie, KS P.S. My Model A engine is now in our barn -- it's a former combine engine! Pulled the head the other day & the cylinders look pretty good -- only about .005 ridge to clean up at the cylinder top. It came with a WICO magneto that is driven off the old spark distributer drive! Maybe we won't need to make a mag. drive off the end of the crank !? > From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Re: Rib strength & testing > Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:18 PM > > Richard, > You can use one or two. Although remember the larger your > sample the more accurate your test.. If you test one, you > will know the results for that one. If you test two and > there is not a significant deviation, you have a better > answer. Remember, you can do NDT ("non-destructive > testing", also known as "quality control") just by bringing > the weight up to minimum numbers (for instance the 400 lbs > in my example) once you have satisfied yourself it will > hold, stop. If it fails before you reach the minimum, > wouldn't you rather know that on the ground? Decide what > you want to know. If you want to know how much weight the > rib can withstand, you have to take it to failure. If you > want to know if you have a good glue joint, then take it to > the minimum weight (personally, I would take it to min +20%, > it is known as a safety factor). By the way make sure you > use gross weight and not dry. Also don't fudge the > numbers. If the expected gross weight is 857 pounds, use > 857. don't say " 857, let's call it 900 to be safe" it > compounds the problem . because if you use 900 then add a > safety factor of 20% you are now 30% above. I cringe at > this but.... but. Write a procedure. determine what you > want to do and write it down and how you plan to accomplish > this. Then give it to an engineer type and ask them to > review it, see if they concur. (I hope none of you work > with me, I could never live this down, suggesting you write > a procedure). One last thing, you don't have to test every > rib. If you are satisfied after doing "x" number without a > failure, assume they are all of that quality. (assuming you > don't change the process, i.e.. different glue, scuffing vs > not, etc.) Good luck and great website ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ray Masters <masters(at)bleriot.cac.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Model "A" Advice
Date: Feb 07, 1999
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 RdwdSgn(at)aol.com wrote: > Ray, > For the record, where are you located? > Ron E. > State College, PA (Home of Penn State). Dead-center of Pennsylvania, as we like to say. Ray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Swanson
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
I can't find my reference at the moment, but I remember that Mr. Pietenpol did indeed mount a radiator at the chin location, but only once since he found that the reduced air flow through the radiator caused cooling problems. I would also think there would be a problem handling the extra hose on the head to take care of the steam pocket. I am finding that the best advice is to follow the plans! There was no mention of the chin location in the Pietenpol Manual which is published by Don Pietenpol. However, it did say that planes built by Mr. Pietenpol after 1937 had the radiator mounted on the cabanes rather than on a mount on the fuselage, with the to pf the radiator inset into the leading edge ofthe wing. This made for a wider but shallower radiator, resulting in less frontal drag (inset into the wing), with more visibility between the bottom of the radiator and the top of the engine. Incidentally, I found this manual, which is available through the Pietenpol family web site to be a very valuable book. It goes into great detail on construction, and modification of the Model A. Al Swanson Fuselage done, ribs done, working on the metal fittings. >PI>I don't know a whole lot about the Ford A engine, but It seems that I >PI>remember somewhere about a fellow who put his radiator at the chin >PI>location. ( at the bottom next to the fire wall. > > >If you look in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual there are pictures of >one or two old >piets that had radiators mounted under the engine, and I seem to >remember that I >read somewhere that Bernard Pietenpol did it on one of the models he >built. I'm sure >it can be made to work. I would recommend to anyone who is thinking of >an automotive >engine setup that you subscribe to Contact! magazine put together by >Mick Myal. It >has a great deal of excellent material. In particular, for radiator >placement and >considerations that lead to good cooling, there is an article in the >July-August, 1998 >issue ( #45 ) by Hans Mayer that will really help you. > >His address: Contact! > >email address: contact1(at)flash.net > >new website: www.NonProfitNet.com/CONTACT/ > >The website also contains a list of all the back issues and their >contents. When I was >at Oshkosh two years ago I subscribed ( $20 a year ) and paid something >like $75 for >all of the back issues. Now that is a lot of money to me, and I >agonized a long time >before I decided to do it. I have not been disappointed one bit. >By the way, Mick >himself is working on a plane (I don't recall what type) in which he is >installing a >Geo/Suzuki 1.3 L. 4-cyl. That is one of the engines I am most >seriously considering >for my Piet, and he is going to have some articles about it soon. > >John F. in Peoria > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 07, 1999
I have thought about making a top tank the same shape as the wing leading edge and moving it back that few inches so that it blends in. Early plans stated that the rad could be cut in half and the halves stacked so as to double the thickness. I would also suggest that anyone contemplating using a Ford engine relocate the waterpump to feed into the lower water jacket inlet. Model As and Bs have the pump locatedat the head outlet. The pump in its stock location, if working well, causes a low pressure area in the head. This lowers the vapour pressure and makes these engines more prone to boiling than if the pump is located lower and pressurizes the block. I have seen several with this conversion and the owners felt it was a great improvement. Piet .54 in Richards image file is a picture of a Piet with a low mounted rad built in the early thirties. The comment to check out Contact is a good one. With careful planning I'm sure that a rad can be enclosed inside the cowl and still work efficiently. The Funk brothers successfully did it with the model B. J Mc -----Original Message----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford radiator placement >Install the radiator where Bernie did, and you will be a HAPPY CAMPER !! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Corvair or Ford?
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Now I dont want to start a holy war on the list here :), so please, anyone with an opinion please email me directly: AirCamper(at)Yahoo.com. (BTW, finished rib #28 today!! :) Anyway, I need to choose an engine now, before I start my fuselage. Up until a few days ago, I was sure I would use a Corvair, but now I am not so sure... I have been watching the videos of the '97 & '98 Brodhead fly-ins and have been enchanted by the Ford installation -the look, the romance, but mostly the SOUND. What a beautiful sound!! The problem is, I have heard rumors that the Ford installation required a lot of "tinkering" to keep in running well. That is really the only thing that is keeping me from making an outright decision to go with the Ford. Anyone with thoughts email me please: AirCamper(at)Yahoo.com Thanks all! Richard p.s. Dont bother suggesting the Continental; I've fully considered it and decided its not an option. <-- polite but firm tone of voice :) == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Richard, I'm having trouble reaching your site, Fly.to/Pietenpol. I just get a redirect service. Is the site temporarily down? I'd love to see the mpegs! Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Richard, Just found the mpegs at your Aircamper site. They're great! Thanx for all you have provided for us at your site! Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair or Ford?
Date: Feb 07, 1999
Nothing wrong with a good holy war. I for one would like to hear the opinions on the ford engine. ocb >From steve(at)byu.edu Sun Feb 7 16:56:52 1999 >Received: from adena.byu.edu ("port 1449"@adena.byu.edu [128.187.22.180]) > by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #31181) > with ESMTP id <01J7GYVSL0W68WYB4B(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com; >Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:57:15 -0800 (PST) >From: Richard DeCosta >Subject: Corvair or Ford? >Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Errors-to: Steve(at)byu.edu >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion >Message-id: <1D639F5494(at)adena.byu.edu> >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) >Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion" >X-Listname: > >Now I dont want to start a holy war on the list here :), so please, >anyone with an opinion please email me directly: AirCamper(at)Yahoo.com. > >(BTW, finished rib #28 today!! :) > >Anyway, I need to choose an engine now, before I start my fuselage. Up >until a few days ago, I was sure I would use a Corvair, but now I am >not so sure... I have been watching the videos of the '97 & '98 >Brodhead fly-ins and have been enchanted by the Ford installation -the >look, the romance, but mostly the SOUND. What a beautiful sound!! > >The problem is, I have heard rumors that the Ford installation >required a lot of "tinkering" to keep in running well. That is really >the only thing that is keeping me from making an outright decision to >go with the Ford. Anyone with thoughts email me please: >AirCamper(at)Yahoo.com > >Thanks all! > >Richard > >p.s. Dont bother suggesting the Continental; I've fully considered >it and decided its not an option. <-- polite but firm tone of voice :) > > >== >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Corvair or Ford?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Richard As one very early in the piece, I still have a lot to learn. However, in my brief experience I had thought that choosing an engine specifically designed for aircraft (the continental) would make a lot of sense. Am I mistaken? If not, for us Oz builders would the Jabiru be OK? Fords or corvairs are a little had to come by here. Thanks in advance for your comments Rob Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I just tried it and it worked ok. You may need to include the http:// in front of the url. Complete url: http://Fly.to/Pietenpol Let me know if that still doesnt get you there. Richard ---ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote: > > Richard, > I'm having trouble reaching your site, Fly.to/Pietenpol. I just get a > redirect service. Is the site temporarily down? I'd love to see the mpegs! > Don Cooley > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: spoke wheels
Date: Feb 08, 1999
> I have drilled pilot holes in the flanges...36 holes for easier to find >US style rims, but I don't know what size the holes should be for the >spokes, also what size should be the countersinks? > Bob- the hole size depends on the gauge size of your spokes. Don't quote me on this but I believe my spokes were 8 or 9 gauge and it took a 5/32" drill to accept them. Counter sinking was done one at a time by using a standard countersink bit and going deep enough to allow the conical portion/ tapered to seat some in the flange. You don't have to countersink but I did it for more surface area to contact the spoke end. >Lastly what size were the spokes you used, and did you roll the threads >? Rolled threads are the standard for bikes and airplanes. You can use cut threads but run the risk of eventual fatiuge failures. Buchannen's Frame Shop in CA makes custom spokes for any application if you give them enough info. They may be on the net. Mike C. I have drilled pilot holes in the flanges...36 holes for easier to find US style rims, but I don't know what size the holes should be for the spokes, also what size should be the countersinks? Bob- the hole size depends on the gauge size of your spokes. Don't quote me on this but I believe my spokes were 8 or 9 gauge and it took a 5/32 drill to accept them. Counter sinking was done one at a time by using a standard countersink bit and going deep enough to allow the conical portion/ tapered to seat some in the flange. You don't have to countersink but I did it for more surface area to contact the spoke end. Lastly what size were the spokes you used, and did you roll the threads ? Rolled threads are the standard for bikes and airplanes. You can use cut threads but run the risk of eventual fatiuge failures. Buchannen's Frame Shop in CA makes custom spokes for any application if you give them enough info. They may be on the net. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com>
Subject: Re: Ford radiator placement
Date: Feb 08, 1999
>Install the radiator where Bernie did, and you will be a HAPPY CAMPER !! > The plans do not show how and where Bernie installed the radiator. Are there some detail plans that we have missed? Thanks, Glenn in VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
Subject: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I have a couple (few) of questions that I would like answered before I start building. Thanks in advance for your help. 1- What does it cost build the Piet with spruce? What about other recomended woods and their cost? 2- Which glue is recomended? 3- What recomendations on a source(s) or company(s) to purchase materials for the Piet? 4- Whats recomended reading prior to building? Just the last few posts about scuffing the gussets prior to glueing made me realize there is a great deal of knowledge needed prior to construction. I'm ordering my plans for the Piet today and can't wait to get started building. Thanks again for everyones help, Randy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: To Stevee
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Hi Steve: I'm going to be in your area from this Thursday evening through Sunday. There are a few questions about the tail group I'd like to ask someone who has built one. Will you be in town and would you mind spending a few minutes with me? Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Hi Richard: I'm unable to access your site. It's worked in the past but now I'm getting the error message "Netscape is unable to locate the server 207.140.1.221%20. The server does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the Location (URL) and try again." This happens when I try accessing through the bookmark I'm using or through the hyperlink you included in your message below. Any advice? Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > I just tried it and it worked ok. You may need to include the http:// > in front of the url. Complete url: http://Fly.to/Pietenpol > > Let me know if that still doesnt get you there. > > Richard > > ---ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > Richard, > > I'm having trouble reaching your site, Fly.to/Pietenpol. I just get a > > redirect service. Is the site temporarily down? I'd love to see > the mpegs! > > Don Cooley > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Richard: That works. Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > The %20 should not be there in the 207.140.1.221%20. Not shure where > it came from. You can still access the site via this address: > http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet > > Richard > > > ---mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > > > > Hi Richard: > > > > I'm unable to access your site. It's worked in the past but now I'm > getting > > the error message "Netscape is unable to locate the server > 207.140.1.221%20. > > The server does not have a DNS entry. Check the server name in the > Location > > (URL) and try again." This happens when I try accessing through the > > bookmark I'm using or through the hyperlink you included in your > message > > below. Any advice? Thanks. > > > > Mark Boynton > > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > > > I just tried it and it worked ok. You may need to include the > http:// > > > in front of the url. Complete url: http://Fly.to/Pietenpol > > > > > > Let me know if that still doesnt get you there. > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > ---ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > I'm having trouble reaching your site, Fly.to/Pietenpol. I just > get a > > > > redirect service. Is the site temporarily down? I'd love to see > > > the mpegs! > > > > Don Cooley > > > > > > > > > > == > > > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > > > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > > > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: To Stevee
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Should be here, I have my plane at home right now, so drop on by. Steve E -----Original Message----- mboynton(at)excite.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Stevee Hi Steve: I'm going to be in your area from this Thursday evening through Sunday. There are a few questions about the tail group I'd like to ask someone who has built one. Will you be in town and would you mind spending a few minutes with me? Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Rib strength & testing
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Michael, I have also found an old Model A engine form a combine. Is it the same engine, same block etc. I wondered if it was the same engine and ok to us. I didn't know how much of it was usable for a Piet. Where is Pretty Prairie at? I'm near Burlington. The engine I found had a coil and electric system. To bad.... Greg Yotz Michael Conkling wrote: > Mike Conkling > Pretty Prairie, KS > > P.S. My Model A engine is now in our barn -- it's a former combine engine! > Pulled the head the other day & the cylinders look pretty good -- only > about .005 ridge to clean up at the cylinder top. It came with a WICO > magneto that is driven off the old spark distributer drive! Maybe we won't > need to make a mag. drive off the end of the crank !? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote: > fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West > System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything > breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps are GREAT) and the lack of odour. I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is actually designed for this type of application. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, oil can wrote: > Gezz, I hate to say this... > > After that I roughed up my gussets on a sanding wheel with a few good > swipes, and the joints went from weak, to very strong. Speaking of sanding, I ran across a little problem recently when I had to sand several corners that had been varnished that had been varnixhed before I realized I had forgotten the gussets. I was running through sandpaper like crazy as it was bent over a sanding block at a hard angle and was being chewed up quite a bit. Getting rather frustrated, I looked for something else and found some older sanding belts for my belt sander. I sacraficed one for teh cause and cut a section to fit the sanding block. With the woven backing on the belts, they are quite resilient and worked like a charm. Although more expensive than a sheet of sandpaper, they are still pretty cheap and will last a LOT longer. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brent Reed
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
This sounds like a great test procedure. But I think that it if you do a destructive test and the joints always pull away with wood, and not just glue, you can't expect any more. If the design is sound and the wood to spec. you can consider yourself in good shape. Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. Brent Reed -----Original Message----- From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 4:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem? >Sorry guys, but i feel I have to put my two cents worth in >on this, too. Richard, if you are to do destructive >testing, do it right and controlled. I like the idea of >placing them on mock spars. But the dancing on the 2x4, I >don't. You want to establish if the ribs will safely carry >the wing loads. The 2x4 does not spread the load, it >concentrates it. You need to determine the load strength of >the wing. I don't recall what the wing is rated for, I >think it is +4 g's -1g. You can find it on Grant's page. >Then establish the wing loading (lbs/sqft). Now line the >ribs on the mock spars and cover them. You can use an old >bed sheet and probably latex paint. This is not important, >as you are trying to establish a minimum (threshold) >number. After the test bed is stretched, load the panel >with bags of sand. The amount of weight you add is a simple >calculation. e.g. if the loading is 5 lb/sqft, stressed 4g+ >1g- and you have a 20 sqft test area you load a minimum 400 >lbs evenly across the surface. Actually you want to take it >beyond that. (You can keep adding weight till it fails and >then you know how well it is built). Another test you can >do is if you get to, say 500 lbs, remove the weight and flip >it over and try the other side. By all means, if it fails >prematurely, examine the pieces and identify the failure. >Now here is the kicker. If you look closely at the blue >prints, the ribs are designed to rest on the main spars, >the truss work on the ribs between the spars will make for a >very strong design. I would be curious where that rib >failed, but it may take a lot of sand. Piece of mind is >much better than pieces of debris on the ground. Remember, >you are going to bet your life on it. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I only use T-88! (now). My first two planes were built with resorcinal....what a mess! I haven't used the West system. That comment was from some others that have. T-88 is, in my opinion, the best all around epoxy to use. It is gap filling, not runny. Each guy I knew that used Aerolight had some problem with it meaning on large ares not getting enough of the A & B in the right place causing delaminations. I stay with T-88 and Stits (poly fiber) no matter what. For me, that is the best combination. Earl Myers -----Original Message----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem? >On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote: > >> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West >> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything >> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now > >Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of >the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an >exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that >it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I >can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps >are GREAT) and the lack of odour. > >I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of >my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is >actually designed for this type of application. > >Ken > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Ken; I used West System to make a new canopy frame for a Stitts Flutterbug and found that I could change the consistency by adding small amounts of fiberglass chop until it was a thick as I needed. It does add a little weight but fills gaps and is exceptionally strong. John Mc -----Original Message----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Help... do I have a major problem? >On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Earl Myers wrote: > >> fall off, get tired or break something. If you used T-88 glue or the West >> System, I'll bet you get tired of dancing on the 2x4's before anything >> breaks! If you used Resorcinol Glue with unscoffed gussets, you then now > >Which "flavour" of the West System's products do you use? I have some of >the 206 and 207 and have tried both for glueing wood. They both create an >exceptionally strong bond, but the viscosity of the glue is so thin that >it doesn't have good gap filling properties. Granted, this is something I >can live with especially when you balance off the ease of use (those pumps >are GREAT) and the lack of odour. > >I have to laminate some 1/8" and 1/4" plywood to form the window frames of >my Christavia and I plan on using the West system product as it is >actually designed for this type of application. > >Ken > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Richard DeCosta wrote: > > Got some new stuff on my website for anyone interested: > > 1. Three new mpeg videos: > a. 'A' Ford doing two really neat fly-by's > b. Same ship doing a neat looking slip to landing > c. Same ship again, this time from another Piet > 2. Piet sounds in WAV, MP3 and RealAudio formats > a. 'A' Ford Fly by sounds > b. Corvair take-off > 3. About 40+ new images > > Enjoy! I sure do! > > http://Fly.to/Pietenpol > > Richard > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > Hi Richard, For some reason I am not able to access your site. Something about a url not having a dns entry. Sounds like a cool site. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: test only
Date: Feb 08, 1999
=A0 =A0 Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University =A0 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Hey Gang! I found that by going directly to Richard's site, http://207.140.1.221/w3 builder/Piet, which I have bookmarked, the mpegs are listed as one of the choices. They are large mpegs, 2 -4 megs, and take a while to load, but are really great. Check 'em out. Thanx, again, Richard. Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Morgan
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Just a note to anyone interested... Put your Piet on the Web! Anyone who wants a FREE Lifetime Web Site (5 MEG) can go to one of my sit= es at http://www.hotyellow98.com/mmorgan Just click on the FREE Lifetime Web Site and its yours... Its a great deal, FREE, no gimmicks or catchs, free web design manager to= o. Mark Morgan : ) Bel-Air Aviation ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: New stuff
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Apparently a lot of people have had a lot of trouble getting at my site via http://Fly.to/pietenpol. You can still access it via the old url: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder/piet or http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet Also, I am now compiling a list of suppliers for Piet materials, (spruce, wheels, instruments, etc...) Its linked off my site now, but if anyone has more links (like Orrin Hoopmans address for instance) please email me directly. Richard ---Wayne and Kathy wrote: > > Richard DeCosta wrote: > > > > Got some new stuff on my website for anyone interested: > > > > 1. Three new mpeg videos: > > a. 'A' Ford doing two really neat fly-by's > > b. Same ship doing a neat looking slip to landing > > c. Same ship again, this time from another Piet > > 2. Piet sounds in WAV, MP3 and RealAudio formats > > a. 'A' Ford Fly by sounds > > b. Corvair take-off > > 3. About 40+ new images > > > > Enjoy! I sure do! > > > > http://Fly.to/Pietenpol > > > > Richard > > > > == > > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > > > Hi Richard, > For some reason I am not able to access your site. Something about a > url not having a dns entry. Sounds like a cool site. > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Help... do I have a major problem? -Reply
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I am using epoxy glue and it is a must to presaturate the parts before final gluing. I scuffed the ply on all gussets but got glue on an unscuffed surface which seemed to soak up the glue scuffed or not. After 5 min. of soaking the sheen is gone and the ply looked like wet plywood the grain contrast is clearly visible indicating that the glue did soak in scuffed or not. HOWEVER THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE CORRECT WAY OR THE SAFE WAY TO PERFORM AIRCRAFT CONSTRUCTION, may be the brand plywood clamping pressures type of glue etc. affect the ability of the wood to absorb glue, so I would throughly test a sanded piece of glued ply with and unsanded piece and note the results. maybe ply thats been stored in a stack 10' high has the grain so tightly compressed that it won't absorb glue but my ply which is 1/16 birch soaks up glue or water sanded or not! The okoume is like a sponge put glue on it and it's like disapears. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Help... do I have a major problem? -Reply I used birch ply and Aerolite glue. Tested gussets both sanded and unsanded. NO failures in any of the glue joints. I concur with most of the others, test a couple to destruction and get on with the rest of the plane. Greg Cardinal >>> Richard DeCosta 02/05 7:51 pm >>> I just got my copy of "Aircraft Building Techniques" from the EAA and have read 3-4 chapters. I am now on rib #25, meaning I have done 24 ribs before reading the section of the book on plywood. I am a little concerned now, as I have not "scuffed" or sanded my plywood before gluing to the ribs as the book suggests. I did the water test as described in the book, whereby one pice of scap plywood is scuffed and the other is not, then water is placed on both. As the book predicted the water soaked readily into the scuffed piece but kindof beaded on the un-scuffed one, meaning glue would not soak in as well either. Is this a major factor in the strength of my ribs? Should I scap the 25 ribs I have built? or will they be strong enough without this scuffing? Concerned, Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I ordered douglas fir boat lumber at $ 4.00 a board foot 12% moisture content. figure about 30% to 40% waste after cutting out knots planing and sawing. I received 160 bf plus 1/4, 1/8 okoume and 1/16 birch boat ply plus shipping for about $1500.00 dollars. Iv'e found that building a Pietenpol is much cheaper than smoking and drinking and much safer than chasing women. -----Original Message----- From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 8:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Prices? >I have a couple (few) of questions that I would like answered before I >start building. Thanks in advance for your help. > 1- What does it cost build the Piet with spruce? What about other >recomended woods and their cost? > 2- Which glue is recomended? > 3- What recomendations on a source(s) or company(s) to purchase >materials for the Piet? > 4- Whats recomended reading prior to building? Just the last few posts >about scuffing the gussets prior to glueing made me realize there is a >great deal of knowledge needed prior to construction. > I'm ordering my plans for the Piet today and can't wait to get started >building. Thanks again for everyones help, Randy. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I guess you could call that a free Piet as I can if I ever build mine, I quit smoking back in 1980 when I was smoking two packs a day at 50 cents per pack, now I think they are 2 bucks a pack. But I never saved the money as I kept buying toys, Boats , motorcycles and now building airplanes, But I think flying an airplane is much safer than smoking or riding motorcycles. I still drink beer and even brew it sometimes. Gordon writes: >I ordered douglas fir boat lumber at $ 4.00 a board foot 12% moisture >content. figure about 30% to 40% waste after cutting out knots >planing and sawing. I received 160 bf plus 1/4, 1/8 okoume and >1/16 birch boat ply plus shipping for about $1500.00 dollars. > Iv'e found that building a Pietenpol is much cheaper >than smoking and drinking and much safer than chasing women. > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Fw: Corvair or Ford?
Date: Feb 09, 1999
G'day guys I have no experience with the Jabiru personally, but have heard good reports about them. For those interested, check out the web site: http://www.jabiru.net.au/engine.htm It looks like (for the non-purists) that it would fit well with the Piet, but with appropriate mods to the CG position. Long engine mounts, move the wing? Couldn't get a price, though Still no comments about the Continental? And a HUGE thankyou to Richard for his ongoing commitment to keeping us all informed with, through and about his website. Should never take that kinda dedication for granted. Done wonders for the Piet profile down here. Buy you a beer if you're ever here, mate. Rob Oz piets: Nearly the ones to fly inverted... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mb-albany(at)att.net
Subject: continental
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Rob wrote: Still no comments about the Continental?>> Rob, what comments do you want, I missed your previous message. Mike ( Piet N687MB ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: Re: continental
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Just Richard's comment about choices between Corvair or Ford, with a 'polite but firm "no"to the Continental option' (to paraphrase).I wondered what was problem with an engine which at first sight might appear suitable. Ta Rob Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: continental
Date: Feb 09, 1999
My reasons for saying no to the continental, I'm almost embarrased to say, were purely aesthetic. I simply like the Corvair and Ford engines better than others (I don't care for the sound or look of a continental, for instance). And, since the Corvair and Ford are both very safe and reliable, I am choosing between those two. Richard ---Rob Hart wrote: > > Just Richard's comment about choices between Corvair or Ford, with a > 'polite but firm "no"to the Continental option' (to paraphrase).I > wondered what was problem with an engine which at first sight might > appear suitable. > > Ta > Rob > Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: RE: To Stevee
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Steve: Thanks. I'll give you a call when I get there. Mark > Should be here, I have my plane at home right now, so drop on by. > > Steve E > > -----Original Message----- > mboynton(at)excite.com > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:50 AM > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: To Stevee > > Hi Steve: > > I'm going to be in your area from this Thursday evening through Sunday. > There are a few questions about the tail group I'd like to ask someone who > has built one. Will you be in town and would you mind spending a few > minutes with me? Thanks. > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mb-albany(at)att.net
Subject: engines
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Richard wrote: And, since the Corvair and Ford are both very safe & reliable.....>>> Don't know too much about the corvair ( there are not too many of them flying ),but I will argue about the reliability & safety of the Ford. As a display & curio item they can't be beat.Where I live the terrain is rough & mountainous. Not a field in sight. I know what it feels like to be behind a Ford engine over that country,& I also know what it feels like to be behind & continental over that country. The answer is obvious. Mike B ( Piet N687MB ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: Visit
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Folks Shoulda asked in the last email, but here it is now. This interloper from down under will be briefly passing through LA and Tucson, AZ in either the last week of Sept., or the first of Oct. Are any of you guys with finished ships anywhere near either? I've never seen a completed Piet in the flesh, and would love to. Ta Rob Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: FW: engines
Date: Feb 09, 1999
I remember a conversation around a Brodhead campfire where it was determined the most common failure on the model-A conversion was the magneto. Ironically, the only aircraft item installed. I started a Contental powered Piet until attending Brodhead with the specific goal of comparing power plants. Was surprised to see how the performance of the model-A was at a par or superior to the others. In talking with the owners and long time builders my fears of reliability were eased and I now have a model-A mounted on the front. Could be that slow turning engine is so relaxed as it works. Bill Sayre > ---------- > From: mb-albany(at)att.net[SMTP:mb-albany(at)att.net] > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:02 AM > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: engines > > > Richard wrote: And, since the Corvair and Ford are > both very safe & reliable.....>>> > > Don't know too much about the corvair ( there are > not too many of them flying ),but I will argue about > the reliability & safety of the Ford. > > As a display & curio item they can't be beat.Where I > live the terrain is rough & mountainous. Not a field in > sight. I know what it feels like to be behind a Ford > engine over that country,& I also know what it feels > like to be behind & continental over that country. The > answer is obvious. > > Mike B ( Piet N687MB ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Fw: Visit
Date: Feb 09, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Earl Myers Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Visit >BUT IF YOU ARE EVER IN THE CLEVELAND, OHIO AREA..............YOU COULD >BECOME AS ONE WITH A PIET! >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au> >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 10:39 AM >Subject: Visit > > >Folks > >Shoulda asked in the last email, but here it is now. This interloper >from down under will be briefly passing through LA and Tucson, AZ in >either the last week of Sept., or the first of Oct. Are any of you >guys with finished ships anywhere near either? I've never seen a >completed Piet in the flesh, and would love to. > >Ta >Rob > >Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: continental
Date: Feb 09, 1999
>My reasons for saying no to the continental, I'm almost embarrased to >say, were purely aesthetic. I simply like the Corvair and Ford engines >better than others (I don't care for the sound or look of a >continental, for instance). And, since the Corvair and Ford are both >very safe and reliable, I am choosing between those two. > >Richard Richard- That is the beauty about the Piet (or homebuilts in general) is that we have lots of choices to 'customize' our planes to suit our specific needs, desires, and wants. Nothing wrong with your reasoning. (sniffle, sniffle...) Naw, they all have good and bad points. I do agree with Mike Brusilow though because I've see the terrain near where he flies. Wooded and hilly. Earl Myers description of the A were right on too. You have to take each of these engines for what they are, their limitations, cost, AND yes, aesthetics and romance their various sounds. It all counts. Pick what works for you. On a side note, I was fortunate a few years ago to fly Ed Snyder's Ford powered Piet and don't get me wrong, I LOVE the sound and sight of those babies, but flying one was different. It's like flying my Cont. at about 60% power. Everything happens slowly. The controls feel totally different at 55 mph than 75 mph. Really different. Not bad, just sluggish. I noticed that on this fine 85 F day that the radiator supplied a ton more heat back my way too. I bet that's nice though for winter flying. Some can't tolerate auto fuel oders...and I couldn't help notice that the exhaust stacks were right in line with my nose. The view with the radiator was not the problem I thought it might be. Actually I've had passengers that blocked more of my view than that radiator did. And with all Piets, they don't glide like Champs or Cessna's. You've got to keep the speed up (point the nose down steeper than you are used to or carry power) down to flaring height or they ker-plunk pretty good. Nevertheless, the Ford powered planes are still awesome to watch and to ride in. A trip back in time. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: one last thing.....
Date: Feb 09, 1999
My commets on the Ford powered Piets were generalized observations. Most of them produce 35 to 40 horsepower, But YES, there are some hummers out there souped up to produce much more than that, and those Ford Piets can get out and go. (but they are in the minority) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Fw: Corvair or Ford?
Date: Feb 09, 1999
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Rob Hart wrote: > Still no comments about the Continental? > Well, I'm not building a Piet, but I'll be happy to comment on the Cont. I'm rebuilding a C-85-12F (-12 = electrics, F = flanged crankshaft). The first thing to note is that these engines, the A-65, A-75, A-80, C-75, C-85, C-90 and 0-200 constitute the cheapest of the production aircraft engine to buy and service. The A- series is particularly inexpensive having no electrics, low compression and 4 gph fuel burn. However, some parts are getting harder to find. In particular, cylinders and crankshafts. The C- series is a little easier to maintain (except the C-75) as the cylinders and crankshaft are the same as the 0-200 and can be bought new from Continental. Well, actually, the crank does have 1/8" more throw, so you also hace to swap to the 0-200 con rods and pistons. The three most common models of the 4 cyl Conts are the A-65, C-85 and 0-200. It's not uncommon to find a running A-65 in the $3000 - $4000. Overhauled models can be had for about $6000. C-85's cgenerally go for $4000-$6000 used and $6000 to $8000 overhauled depending on whether they have electrics or not. The 0-200's run for about $4500-$6500 used and from $7000 to $10,000 OH'd. Here's a list of costs for my C-85: Used crank, prop, carb, baffles Rear Accessory case + oil pump $180 Still need Oh yeah, the -$100 is correct. I happened across an A-75 with the crank I needed for $1100 and sold all the parts I couldn't use for $1200. I got to keep the prop, carb, baffles, exhaust, air box, sump and the O/H kit the purchased. It was the best deal I made on the entire project! Overall, I'll make out better than if I had purchased an overhauled engine and I'll know exactly what I have when I'm all done. The beauty of a project like a Christavia or a Piet is that you have a few years to shop for the best deals. I'm sure that if you check around your local area you'll find someone with an old A-65 or C-85 sitting in the back corner that's just itching to get rid of it. One other possibility that has never been mentioned is the Cont C-125. The low compression version of the popular C-145 and 0-300 would make an interesting choice for the Piet. It certainly isn't heavier than the Ford and has a bit more get up and go. The 6 cylinder makes for a low vibration engine and the fuel burn isn't that bad. The up side is that there are still a few of these engines kicking around and usually at a good price. Just food for thought. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Model "A" Advice
Date: Feb 09, 1999
May be of some intrest ? MODEL A engines, cleaning out garage, 7 engines have numbers, not rusty, $100 to $250. PH: 304-776-6569, Wheeling, WV. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Combine A's
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Greg! As far as I know there is no difference between the "industrial" & "automotive" -- as a matter of fact, my engine had spent the last years in a Model A! (with both dist. & mag) Being a later block, it has more reinforcement around the flywheel bearing & and some blocks also have exhaust valve seats. The ID is a diamond casting mark between valve & timing gear cover (front end of engine in a car & back end of the engine in a Piet! ;-) -- it's only about 1/2" long. All this good info came from Terry Oberer (St Louis Model A Club) at the '98 Brodhead -- he was kind enough to take on a guided tour of every "A" block on the field, showing me what to look for. Pretty Prairie, KS is about 40 miles WNW of Wichita. Mike C. PP, KS > From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Re: Rib strength & testing > Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:45 AM > > Michael, > I have also found an old Model A engine form a combine. Is it the same > engine, same block etc. I wondered if it was the same engine and ok to us. I > didn't know how much of it was usable for a Piet. Where is Pretty Prairie at? > I'm near Burlington. The engine I found had a coil and electric system. To > bad.... > > Greg Yotz > > Michael Conkling wrote: > > > Mike Conkling > > Pretty Prairie, KS > > > > P.S. My Model A engine is now in our barn -- it's a former combine engine! > > Pulled the head the other day & the cylinders look pretty good -- only > > about .005 ridge to clean up at the cylinder top. It came with a WICO > > magneto that is driven off the old spark distributer drive! Maybe we won't > > need to make a mag. drive off the end of the crank !? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: engines
Date: Feb 09, 1999
I think the answer is just too obvious The Ford is to a Piet what icecream is to apple pie I have to look thru my 10 yr old Model "A" Ford catalogs but I think there are alot of good parts for rebuilding them now to make them even better than before. Sure wish I had kept my 31 Sedan I sold in 91 or my coupe I sold in 1959 Got 75 bucks for it. Gordon > > Richard wrote: And, since the Corvair and Ford are >both very safe & reliable.....>>> > > Don't know too much about the corvair ( there are >not too many of them flying ),but I will argue about >the reliability & safety of the Ford. > > As a display & curio item they can't be beat.Where I >live the terrain is rough & mountainous. Not a field in >sight. I know what it feels like to be behind a Ford >engine over that country,& I also know what it feels >like to be behind & continental over that country. The >answer is obvious. > > Mike B ( Piet N687MB ) > > > > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: one last thing.....
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Airworthy Standards Chapt. 549 (Canadian) has the formulas or charts to calculate P2, The minimum rated engine power in Brake horsepower for fixed wing aircraft with a take off mass of 0 to 2000 lbs. I ran the numbers for a Piet at 1080lbs. gross. It worked out to 33 hp. Sooo. ....anyone who would think of taking an engine that is at least 69 years old and expect it to put out 82.5% of it's original power out put with out doing a very thorough and complete overhaul is dreaming, if he expects his aircraft to fly well. I have ridden in both an older A powered Piet and an A-65 powered GN-1. They seemed very similar to me but the old Ford was tired and I'm sure it wasn't putting out all that it could. The point is that the Ford with proper overhaul and attention to detail can be made to put out a lot more than the bare minimum and for less money than it takes to overhaul a timed out Continental. The biggest gains in power will be realized in the breathing and that means cam timing. Not just that the gears are lined up but that the lift and duration are with in specs. . It would not be wise to assume that because the engine idles and runs well that it is breathing properly. Have somebody dial indicate and degree check your cam or buy a new regrind to spec. Anyone using the Ford will also be well advised to pay close attention to cooling oil and ignition systems. Fords can be safe reliable engines. Model A engine specs: 200.5 cu.in., 40 brake hp @ 2200 rpm , Bore 3.875", Stroke 4.250", Compression Ratio 4.22:1, Cylinder offset 0.125" Mains 1.625" Timing end and center brgs 2" long rear mmain 3". Rod journals 1.500" dia 1.625" wide. Bearing clearance 0.001" Cam Lift 0.302" Clearance 0.015" Base circle 0.954", Intake opens 7 1/2 BTDC, Closes 48 1/2 ABDC Exhaust opens 51 1/2 BBDC, closes 4 1/2 ATDC. John Mc PS The Fords sound better, and better yet if they have a collector type exhuast header made up, more power too! -----Original Message----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: one last thing..... > My commets on the Ford powered Piets were generalized observations. >Most of them produce 35 to 40 horsepower, But YES, there are some >hummers out there souped up to produce much more than that, and those >Ford Piets can get out and go. (but they are in the minority) > >Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Visit
Date: Feb 09, 1999
where are you in finishing your piet? Gordon writes: >Folks > >Shoulda asked in the last email, but here it is now. This interloper >from down under will be briefly passing through LA and Tucson, AZ in >either the last week of Sept., or the first of Oct. Are any of you >guys with finished ships anywhere near either? I've never seen a >completed Piet in the flesh, and would love to. > >Ta >Rob > >Oz Piets: Nearly the only ones to fly inverted... > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Weir <jim@rst-engr.com>
Subject: Unsubscribe
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Hey, fellers, it is a really interesting discussion, but I can't assimilate it all right now...maybe when I start collecting pieces. Can anybody tell me how to unsubscribe from the list?? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: Unsubscribe
Date: Feb 10, 1999
I got it, So long for now Jim, Steve e -----Original Message----- Weir Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Unsubscribe Hey, fellers, it is a really interesting discussion, but I can't assimilate it all right now...maybe when I start collecting pieces. Can anybody tell me how to unsubscribe from the list?? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Anyone know of anyplace (still in someone's head maybe?) where I can get or build a checklist of things to look for in a Ford engine? (photos/images of "good" engines and "bad" engines would be cool, too= ) I am going to my father-in-law's friend's house tomorrow afternoon, who has a couple of them, and I want to make sure I know what to look for, and what to watch out for. I scraped just about every inch of Grant's site, and couldnt find muc= h there in the way of an "Idiot's Guide to Ford Engines". :) I indend to put the checklist (and any corresponding images) on my Website for others to use as well. Richard p.s. if anyone is wondering why I am so obsessed with putting so much information on my site, it's because when I started gathering information for the Piet, I couldnt find SQUAT and nearly gave up looking and quit the whole thing. I want to gather as much informatio= n in one place as possible so that new builders and potential builders won't get discouraged to find no help or information out there. Besides, I'm just a little obsessed with airplanes to begin with... ---Earl Myers wrote: > > RICHARD; > READ WELL THE E-MAIL TO THE GROUP FROM JOHN MCNARY REF THE FORD "A" ENGINE. HE IS 100% CORRECT AS I KNOW OF SEVERAL STRONG FORD PIETS THAT PAID ATTENTION TO THE CAM ISSUE. FORD " A" FACTORY CAMS WERE NOTORIOUS FOR BEING PRODUCED IN A WIDE RANGE OR TOLERANCE CAUSING A WIDE RANGE OF PERFORMANCE..........JOHN HAD SENT ME A LONG STORY SOMETIME AGO ON ANOTHER ENGINE TYPE. THIS MAN REALLY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT !!!!! > > ONE OF MY NEXT PROJECTS IS TO HAVE AN "A" OR "B" DONE UP RIGHT. B= Y THIS I MEAN A HEALTY CAM, BIGGER CARB, PORTED HEAD, BIGGER VALVES, PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM, SHELL INSERT BEARINGS AND SO FORTH. YOU ARE LOOKING AT AROUND 70 RELIABLE HP WITH THIS SET-UP. THIS WILL GO IN MY SCOUT FIRST THEN WHEN TESTED OUT, INTO A (FUTURE) '33 AIRCAMPER EITHE= R BUILT OR BOUGHT AND REBUILT.............THE RACING VERSIONS CAN GET 110-130HP BUT I DON'T WANT THAT MUCH HP OR RPM. A SLOW TURNING= PROP ON THE FRONT OF THAT BUILT UP ENGINE.............THAT SOUND IS HARD TO FORGET ! > EARL MYERS > ype> RICHARD; =A0 READ WELL THE E-MAIL TO THE G= ROUP =46ROM JOHN MCNARY REF THE FORD "A" ENGINE. HE IS 100% CORRECT AS I KNOW OF= SEVERAL STRONG FORD PIETS THAT PAID ATTENTION TO THE CAM ISSUE. FORD " A" FACTORY CAMS WERE NOTORIOUS FOR BEING PRODUCED IN A WIDE RANGE OR= TOLERANCE CAUSING A WIDE RANGE OF PERFORMANCE..........JOHN HAD SENT ME A LONG STORY SOMETIME AGO ON ANOTHER ENGINE TYPE. THIS MAN REALLY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT !!!!! =A0 =A0 ONE OF MY NEXT PROJECTS IS TO= HAVE AN "A" OR "B" DONE UP RIGHT. BY THIS I MEAN A HEALTY CAM, BIGGER CARB, PORTED HEAD, BIGGER VALVES, PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM, SHELL INSERT BEARINGS AND SO FORTH. YOU ARE LOOKING AT AROUND 70 RELIABLE HP WITH THIS SET-UP. THIS WILL GO IN MY SCOUT FIRST THEN WHEN TESTED OUT, INTO A (FUTURE) '33 AIRCAMPER EITHER BUILT OR BOUGHT AND REBUILT.............THE RACING VERSIONS CAN GET 110-130HP BUT I DON'T WANT THAT MUCH HP OR RPM.=A0=A0=A0 A SLOW= TURNING=A0 PROP ON THE FRONT OF THAT BUILT UP ENGINE.............THAT SOUND IS HARD TO FORGET ! EARL MYERS=A0= http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Stay obsessed Richard. The information is great, useful & inspirational. Besides, I have no requirement that my sources be completely sane...{; ) Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brent Reed
Subject: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES
Date: Feb 10, 1999
This reminds me of the story of the king that decided to have a foot race for his whole kingdom. He laid out the course and the people gathered for the race. Many made a quick start and finished long before others, but the last one to complete the race finished long after all the others. This last was ushered before the king and asked why it took him so long to pass. The traveler told the king that he might have finished much sooner but he came upon a large pile of debris in the middle of the road and stopped to clear the path. Many passed by as he did this work. At the under it all was a great sack of gold pieces. He had brought it along to give to the king that it might be returned to the owner. At this the king said it belonged to him. He had placed the obstacle, and the treasure, there. He who travels the journey best makes the path easier for those who follow. Thank you, Richard. May well all follow your example in all we do. Brent Reed Kent, Wa Richard p.s. if anyone is wondering why I am so obsessed with putting so much information on my site, it's because when I started gathering information for the Piet, I couldnt find SQUAT and nearly gave up looking and quit the whole thing. I want to gather as much information in one place as possible so that new builders and potential builders won't get discouraged to find no help or information out there. Besides, I'm just a little obsessed with airplanes to begin with... ---Earl Myers wrote: > > RICHARD; > READ WELL THE E-MAIL TO THE GROUP FROM JOHN MCNARY REF THE FORD "A" ENGINE. HE IS 100% CORRECT AS I KNOW OF SEVERAL STRONG FORD PIETS THAT PAID ATTENTION TO THE CAM ISSUE. FORD " A" FACTORY CAMS WERE NOTORIOUS FOR BEING PRODUCED IN A WIDE RANGE OR TOLERANCE CAUSING A WIDE RANGE OF PERFORMANCE..........JOHN HAD SENT ME A LONG STORY SOMETIME AGO ON ANOTHER ENGINE TYPE. THIS MAN REALLY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT !!!!! > > ONE OF MY NEXT PROJECTS IS TO HAVE AN "A" OR "B" DONE UP RIGHT. BY THIS I MEAN A HEALTY CAM, BIGGER CARB, PORTED HEAD, BIGGER VALVES, PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM, SHELL INSERT BEARINGS AND SO FORTH. YOU ARE LOOKING AT AROUND 70 RELIABLE HP WITH THIS SET-UP. THIS WILL GO IN MY SCOUT FIRST THEN WHEN TESTED OUT, INTO A (FUTURE) '33 AIRCAMPER EITHER BUILT OR BOUGHT AND REBUILT.............THE RACING VERSIONS CAN GET 110-130HP BUT I DON'T WANT THAT MUCH HP OR RPM. A SLOW TURNING PROP ON THE FRONT OF THAT BUILT UP ENGINE.............THAT SOUND IS HARD TO FORGET ! > EARL MYERS > RICHARD; READ WELL THE E-MAIL TO THE GROUP FROM JOHN MCNARY REF THE FORD "A" ENGINE. HE IS 100% CORRECT AS I KNOW OF SEVERAL STRONG FORD PIETS THAT PAID ATTENTION TO THE CAM ISSUE. FORD " A" FACTORY CAMS WERE NOTORIOUS FOR BEING PRODUCED IN A WIDE RANGE OR TOLERANCE CAUSING A WIDE RANGE OF PERFORMANCE..........JOHN HAD SENT ME A LONG STORY SOMETIME AGO ON ANOTHER ENGINE TYPE. THIS MAN REALLY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT !!!!! ONE OF MY NEXT PROJECTS IS TO HAVE AN "A" OR "B" DONE UP RIGHT. BY THIS I MEAN A HEALTY CAM, BIGGER CARB, PORTED HEAD, BIGGER VALVES, PRESSURE OIL SYSTEM, SHELL INSERT BEARINGS AND SO FORTH. YOU ARE LOOKING AT AROUND 70 RELIABLE HP WITH THIS SET-UP. THIS WILL GO IN MY SCOUT FIRST THEN WHEN TESTED OUT, INTO A (FUTURE) '33 AIRCAMPER EITHER BUILT OR BOUGHT AND REBUILT.............THE RACING VERSIONS CAN GET 110-130HP BUT I DON'T WANT THAT MUCH HP OR RPM. A SLOW TURNING PROP ON THE FRONT OF THAT BUILT UP ENGINE.............THAT SOUND IS HARD TO FORGET ! EARL MYERS == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: As long as we're voting....
Date: Feb 10, 1999
>Stay obsessed Richard. The information is great, useful & inspirational. >Besides, I have no requirement that my sources be completely sane...{; ) >Warren > Richard- - I SECOND this vote by Warren S. and if it comforts you any I'm a bit obsessed myself !! MIke C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Hi all the advertisement that I posted yesterday is from a magazine called Hemmings Motor News, that I picked up from the local book store. it has a lot of ads for model A parts and machine shops. and they have A web site www.hemmings.com check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Subject: PIET ACCIDENT
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Was checking the NTSB web site on another incident and ran into this accident involving a PIET. Thank goodness the durability of the craft saved its occupant. NTSB Identification: FTW99LA042 Accident occurred DEC-02-98 at ENGLAND, AR Aircraft: HOLIMAN PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER, registration: N396S Injuries: 1 Serious. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On December 2, 1998, at approximately 1425 central standard time, a Holiman Pietenpol Aircamper homebuilt airplane, N396S, was substantially damage upon collision with a power line while maneuvering near England, Arkansas. The commercial pilot, sole occupant of the airplane, was seriously injured. The experimental airplane was owned and operated by the pilot/builder under Title 14 CFR Part 91. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed throughout the area for the local personal flight. The flight originated from the Saline County Airport, in Benton, Arkansas, approximately 30 prior to the accident. According to witnesses near the accident site, the high wing tailwheel equipped airplane was observed maneuvering at low altitude in the vicinity of the accident. A nearby resident reported to law enforcement officers hearing the sound of the airplane engine flying near his residence. The resident reported that the sound of the engine stopped about the same time that his home lost electrical power. The resident went outside and observed that the single powerline servicing his home was down on the ground and the remains of the wood and fabric airplane came to rest came to rest about 200 feet beyond the point where the wire was severed. The 74 year old commercial pilot was occupying the front seat of the 2-seat tandem airplane. Examination of the wreckage of the airplane by the FAA inspector that traveled to the accident site revealed that the fuselage and both wings sustained structural damage. The inspector further noted continuity to all flight controls. Likewise, continuity was established to all engine controls. Fuel was found at the site and there was no fire. Index for Dec 1998 | Index of Months ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Piet accident
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Re Piet accident: The 74 year old commercial pilot was occupying the front seat of the 2-seat tandem airplane>>>>> What? Mike B ( Piet 687MB ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Piet accident
Date: Feb 10, 1999
>Re Piet accident: > The 74 year old commercial pilot was occupying the front seat of the 2-seat tandem airplane>>>>> > > What? Maybe because it was powered by a VW engine? :-) :-) :-) :-) Sorry, just a thougt about my impossible dream.... VW powered piet :-( Saludos Gary Gower ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry Davis
Subject: RE: Piet accident
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Front seat? Both wings? Wow! bed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Hear, Hear! Thanks again Richard! It is a great insiration to look at all the finished Piets and the photo's of the bits and pieces are worth thousands of words. When you are looking at the engines take the time to remove the pan and head if possible. The areas to watch for are cracks inbetween the valve seats and cooling ports and cracks on the outside of the water jacket. I wouldn't worry too much about the condition of the pistons or valves as you will be replacing those. The rods should be free of file or chisel marks on the I -beam section. (Many mechanics seem to feel that they have to make great big ID marks.) These marks become stress risers, not a good thing! Really all you want is a crack free block a good crank and a set of reuseable rods. You should replace just about everything else. The beauty of the Ford engine is that they are still very popular in the antique car world and there are many part suppliers. The hardest thing is to find someone that is capable of doing a first rate job of the babbit work. The antique car guys in your area will probably know who. John Mc -----Original Message----- From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FORD "A" ENGINES >Stay obsessed Richard. The information is great, useful & inspirational. >Besides, I have no requirement that my sources be completely sane...{; ) >Warren > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robihart(at)rph.health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Visit
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Helluva long way to go. Haven't started cutting yet! Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RdwdSgn(at)aol.com
Subject: Unsubcribe
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Unsubscribe. PC sick - going in for surgery ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolm Morrison <morrisons5(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Subscribe
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Please sign me up. New email account! Thanks Malcolm Please sign me up. New email account! Thanks Malcolm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
Subject: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 11, 1999
I have A couple of questions about Yesterday's Wings Aero Museum. Are they still open; I tried to call them and got a message that the phone had been disconected? Also does anyone have an opinon about thier three piece wing plan with 1/8" gap, and the no-gap aileron plans. Thanks, Randy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Randy, Don't know about the phone deal. However, I have bought several of their plans and would tell you that these are extraordinarily professional, detailed and well thought out plans, which include color photos of the various steps. Personally think they are well worth the money. Best Regards, Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Randy: Did you call directory assistance and get a # for Gary Price? He runs Yesterdays Wings. Let me know what you find out. Warren Shoun wrote: > Randy, > Don't know about the phone deal. However, I have bought several of > their plans and would tell you that these are extraordinarily professional, > detailed and well thought out plans, which include color photos of the > various steps. Personally think they are well worth the money. > Best Regards, > Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Yesterday's Wings has a web site, as part of the Hampton Airfield site: www.hampton-airfield.com. Although I couldnt access the site today, I think it is generally still functional and available. Richard ---RGASKIN wrote: > > I have A couple of questions about Yesterday's Wings Aero Museum. Are > they still open; I tried to call them and got a message that the phone > had been disconected? Also does anyone have an opinon about thier three > piece wing plan with 1/8" gap, and the no-gap aileron plans. > Thanks, Randy. > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Randy, et al, Here's the skinny on Yesterday's Wings... Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works, Inc Historic Hampton Airfield, Lafayette Road, Route 1 North Hampton, NH03862-9998 Office Phone: 603-436-7360 Airfield Office: 603-964-6749 Drawings are excellent quality, people are pleasant to talk with. Enjoy! Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Smoke System
Date: Feb 12, 1999
This is for Mike C, and others with exp here, =A0 Mike,=A0 Nice smoke job picture on the BPA page!=A0 I have got my pie= t down for upgrades and improvements and would like to add that feature.=A0 Can you share what you did to get the white stuff? =A0 =A0 =A0 Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University =A0 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Smoke System
Date: Feb 12, 1999
> > This is for Mike C, and others with exp here, > > Mike, Nice smoke job picture on the BPA page! I have got my piet down for > upgrades and improvements and would like to add that feature. Can you share > what you did to get the white stuff? > Heh, heh, heh. Boy that smoke system is alot of fun. Here is what I did: On one of the rear cylinder exhaust pipes you weld a fitting about 3" down from the flange. (I used a Swagelok 1/4" female fitting) Drill two small (Number 40 or so) holes into the exhaust pipe inside that fitting you just welded on. Run 1/4" copper or stainless tubing out from that fitting about 8" long then connect to rubber hose (to reduce vibration and prevent cracking your metal tubing or fiting) The run the hose into some 1/4" poly tubing- the black or translucent kind we use to run airspeed lines, etc. I think even the hardware stores carry something just like it. Run that poly tubing back to your rear cockpit however you like, and then go to Wal-Mart. In the garden dept. buy a 1/2 gallon bug sprayer/ pressure pump by hand type of deal for about 10 to $15. Unscrew the 'wand' or cut it, leaving some of the vinyl tubing intact. Use your choice of how to connect the bug sprayer outlet to your hose in the cockpit going to the smoke injection port on your exhaust stack. Call around to local oil distributors and ask if they carry Texaco Canoupus Oil No. 14 I think it is. It used to be called Corvus Oil. Don't quote me on the No. 14, but I can look at my 5 gallon container at home to confirm that or not. Ask what's the minimum they'll sell you....usually 5 gallons. IT's not cheap. It's what the airshow boys use. I paid 30$ for 5 gallons. (but got quite alot of smoke time with that) Anywho, fill your bug sprayer about 3/4 full, tighten the lid and pump up the pressure. Start your engine and let it warm up. Run the engine up a little and press the bug sprayer's button to fill your line and start injecting oil into the hot exhaust stack. Whala, insant IFR. Be careful testing this out- Make sure your fitting isn't leaking or weld poor. The idea is to keep the oil inside so you don't create a fire hazard. If your holes are too big you will go thru too much oil too quickly and most of it will just make your gear and belly oily. In selecting a pump, see if you can try it out at the store first- It shouldn't take 100 pumps to get the pressure up- you want one that builds up pressure in fairly short order. I've tinkered with the idea of using a windshield washer pump and a motorcycle battery to pump the oil but just wanted to keep it simple. The bug sprayers don't last super long either with that oil. If you purge the lines out with air when you are done (ie: turn the sprayer upside down and just pump air thru the line) they last longer. Lastly, before you go doing this, make you are not in the non-smoking section on you sectional ! Mike C. This is for Mike C, and others with exp here, Mike, Nice smoke job picture on the BPA page! I have got my piet down for upgrades and improvements and would like to add that feature. Can you share what you did to get the white stuff? Heh, heh, heh. Boy that smoke system is alot of fun. Here is what I did: On one of the rear cylinder exhaust pipes you weld a fitting about 3 down from the flange. (I used a Swagelok 1/4 female fitting) Drill two small (Number 40 or so) holes into the exhaust pipe inside that fitting you just welded on. Run 1/4 copper or stainless tubing out from that fitting about 8 long then connect to rubber hose (to reduce vibration and prevent cracking your metal tubing or fiting) The run the hose into some 1/4 poly tubing- the black or translucent kind we use to run airspeed lines, etc. I think even the hardware stores carry something just like it. Run that poly tubing back to your rear cockpit however you like, and then go to Wal-Mart. In the garden dept. buy a 1/2 gallon bug sprayer/ pressure pump by hand type of deal for about 10 to $15. Unscrew the 'wand' or cut it, leaving some of the vinyl tubing intact. Use your choice of how to connect the bug sprayer outlet to your hose in the cockpit going to the smoke injection port on your exhaust stack. Call around to local oil distributors and ask if they carry Texaco Canoupus Oil No. 14 I think it is. It used to be called Corvus Oil. Don't quote me on the No. 14, but I can look at my 5 gallon container at home to confirm that or not. Ask what's the minimum they'll sell you....usually 5 gallons. IT's not cheap. It's what the airshow boys use. I paid 30$ for 5 gallons. (but got quite alot of smoke time with that) Anywho, fill your bug sprayer about 3/4 full, tighten the lid and pump up the pressure. Start your engine and let it warm up. Run the engine up a little and press the bug sprayer's button to fill your line and start injecting oil into the hot exhaust stack. Whala, insant IFR. Be careful testing this out- Make sure your fitting isn't leaking or weld poor. The idea is to keep the oil inside so you don't create a fire hazard. If your holes are too big you will go thru too much oil too quickly and most of it will just make your gear and belly oily. In selecting a pump, see if you can try it out at the store first- It shouldn't take 100 pumps to get the pressure up- you want one that builds up pressure in fairly short order. I've tinkered with the idea of using a windshield washer pump and a motorcycle battery to pump the oil but just wanted to keep it simple. The bug sprayers don't last super long either with that oil. If you purge the lines out with air when you are done (ie: turn the sprayer upside down and just pump air thru the line) they last longer. Lastly, before you go doing this, make you are not in the non-smoking section on you sectional ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Smoke System
Date: Feb 12, 1999
One last thing- they tell me that the Courvus oil is primarily a vegetable oil used in the food processing industry and dentist drills. I am told that this oil produces the BEST smoke you can make, but have toyed with injecting some Wesson oil or the like. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: plywood questions
Date: Feb 12, 1999
I have ordered my fuse materials and have a few quick plywood questions for anyone with time to anwser. 1. Do the large plywood sides of the fuselage need to be all one piece, or can 2 sheets be used? 2. Is 3-ply or 5-ply plywood better? 3. Can the same type of plywood be used for the seat parts as used in the gussets? Thanks, Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: plywood questions
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Richard re: your plywood questions. #1 yes you can use two sheets. I did mine this way be doing a 12 to 1 splice and positioning the splice on a vertical member. I used a belt sander to do the initial bevel and finished it off by shaving with cut glass. It's easy to keeep it straight...the straighness of the plies will show you the way. #2 The ply I used was 1/8 inch-seven ply. I think it was from a/c Spruce. #3 Sure you can use the same material for seats as you do for gussets but certainly not the same thickness! Don Hicks DonanClara(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com>
Subject: Re: plywood questions
Date: Feb 12, 1999
I bought 1 sheet of kumme (spelling?)mahogany(marine grade)and it easily did both sides,as it was over 4x8 in deminsion.I think it was 3 ply. Doug > From: Richard DeCosta > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: plywood questions > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:10 PM > > I have ordered my fuse materials and have a few quick plywood > questions for anyone with time to anwser. > > 1. Do the large plywood sides of the fuselage need to be all one > piece, or can 2 sheets be used? > > 2. Is 3-ply or 5-ply plywood better? > > 3. Can the same type of plywood be used for the seat parts as used in > the gussets? > > Thanks, > Richard > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>I have a couple (few) of questions that I would like answered before I >start building. Thanks in advance for your help. > 1- What does it cost build the Piet with spruce? What about other >recomended woods and their cost? Randy, Below is part of a note I sent a while back when I was researching wood prices. I will be placing my order shortly for all of the spruce in one shot. Corporate bonus amount was announced, check should be here next week. Yipeeeee!!!!! When I get a final price including shipping I will post it. Dave -------------------------------- >Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies >Calgary, Alberta Canada >(403)250-1955 > > I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30 crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
Subject: Re: Smoke System
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Heh, heh, heh. Boy that smoke system is alot of fun. > > Run that poly tubing back to your rear cockpit however you like, > and then go to Wal-Mart. In the garden dept. buy a 1/2 gallon > bug sprayer/ pressure pump by hand type of deal for about > 10 to $15. Unscrew the 'wand' or cut it, leaving some of the > vinyl tubing intact. Use your choice of how to connect the > bug sprayer outlet to your hose in the cockpit going to the > smoke injection port on your exhaust stack. Mike, I have heard that the "Dawn Patrol" guys with their Nieuports use automotive windshield washer reservoirs and pumps to squirt the oil into the exhaust stacks. Like the idea of hand pumping/ no electrical better, though. Mike List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Route to Brodhead
Date: Feb 13, 1999
I know snow is still on the ground, but I am getting excited to make the trip from Florida this summer. I was looking at charts last night. Could hardly fall asleep. I am looking for suggestions for good places to stop along the way for fuel and pitching my tent. I would prefer grass and auto fuel but am not real picky and will take whatever works out as reasonable. Don't have a transponder so that is the only limitation. Went up for a spin this afternoon because there wasn't a cloud in the sky and I couldn't think of any reason not to. Thanks, Ted GN-1 Naples, FL/APF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Piet wood Bill of Material
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Has anyone ever seen or done a real material listing, bill of material or whatever you want to call it of an Aircamper? Mr. Cuy? earl myers Has anyone ever seen or done a real material listing, bill of material or whatever you want to call it of an Aircamper? Mr. Cuy? earl myers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com>
Subject: Re: Route to Brodhead
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Ata boy! (jelous in Alberta.Only 40 deg F today,plus a foot or so of snow)Played Ham Radio all day with old friends,a good day it was!!!!!!! 73 Doug Hunt VE6ZH > From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Route to Brodhead > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 7:28 PM > > I know snow is still on the ground, but I am getting excited to make the > trip from Florida this summer. I was looking at charts last night. Could > hardly fall asleep. > > I am looking for suggestions for good places to stop along the way for fuel > and pitching my tent. I would prefer grass and auto fuel but am not real > picky and will take whatever works out as reasonable. Don't have a > transponder so that is the only limitation. > > Went up for a spin this afternoon because there wasn't a cloud in the sky > and I couldn't think of any reason not to. > > Thanks, Ted > GN-1 > Naples, FL/APF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 15, 1999
Warren Shoun wrote: > > Randy, > Don't know about the phone deal. However, I have bought several of > their plans and would tell you that these are extraordinarily professional, > detailed and well thought out plans, which include color photos of the > various steps. Personally think they are well worth the money. > Best Regards, > Warren Thanks for the info. Do you have the mailing address? Thanks and may you be blessed with a tailwind. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 15, 1999
Randy, Thanks. Have Tailwind plans but will finish the Piet first...{8 ). Have two addresses: 1. G. S. Price 2. Yesterday's Wings Aero Museum, Inc. The only phone number that I have is (603) 436-7360. Good Luck! Best Regards, Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: splicing steel tubing
Date: Feb 15, 1999
I am just a little bit curious about how to,...or if it is permisable to take my scraps of steel tubing and splice two pieces together, so to make one, then weld it into my fuselage as a structural part. The material I'm using is 3/4x 035, and I'm thinking that I could cut a piece of tube maybe 6" long in half lengthwise then weld the halfs to the main tubes for a structural splice. Slip a piece of smaller tube inside the tubes to be spliced, then weld it in. Does anybody have any suggestions ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Re: splicing steel tubing
Date: Feb 16, 1999
AC 43.13-1b has all the specs for "accepted" methods of splicing structural tubing. If you use that as a guide, you won't go wrong. If you don't have AC 43.13-1b, it's available on the FAA web site http://www.faa.gov oil can wrote: > I am just a little bit curious about how to,...or if it is permisable to > take my scraps of steel tubing and splice two pieces together, so to > make one, then weld it into my fuselage as a structural part. > > The material I'm using is 3/4x 035, and I'm thinking that I could cut a > piece of tube maybe 6" long in half lengthwise then weld the halfs to > the main tubes for a structural splice. > > > Slip a piece of smaller tube inside the tubes to be spliced, then weld > it in. > > Does anybody have any suggestions ? > -- David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: splicing steel tubing
Date: Feb 16, 1999
Mr Schober is right! This is the only legal way to do it and it does work. AC43.13 is the "bible" for repairs and FAA approved methods........... -----Original Message----- From: David B. Schober <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: splicing steel tubing >AC 43.13-1b has all the specs for "accepted" methods of splicing structural >tubing. If you use that as a guide, you won't go wrong. If you don't have AC >43.13-1b, it's available on the FAA web site http://www.faa.gov > >oil can wrote: > >> I am just a little bit curious about how to,...or if it is permisable to >> take my scraps of steel tubing and splice two pieces together, so to >> make one, then weld it into my fuselage as a structural part. >> >> The material I'm using is 3/4x 035, and I'm thinking that I could cut a >> piece of tube maybe 6" long in half lengthwise then weld the halfs to >> the main tubes for a structural splice. >> >> >> Slip a piece of smaller tube inside the tubes to be spliced, then weld >> it in. >> >> Does anybody have any suggestions ? >> > > >-- > ** > >David B.Schober, CPE >Instructor, Aviation Maintenance >Fairmont State College >National Aerospace Education Center >Rt. 3 Box 13 >Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 >(304) 842-8300 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Holland
Subject: Re: splicing steel tubing
Date: Feb 16, 1999
Take a quick look at where the splices will be. Each time you do that, you are adding weight. The "Acceptable Methods" has considerable overlap of the pieces. Near the tail could affect your CG. If you are just planning on doing one or two joints, I would spring for the new tubing. It is still fairly cheap. Just my thoughts on it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Route to Brodhead
Date: Feb 16, 1999
. >I am looking for suggestions for good places to stop along the way for fuel >and pitching my tent. I would prefer grass and auto fuel but am not real >picky and will take whatever works out as reasonable. Don't have a >transponder so that is the only limitation. > Ted- The guy you want to talk with is Bill Rewey, 3339 Moundview Road, Verona, WI 53593 He's not on e-mail though. Bill has taken his Piet to Sun-N-Fun several times and probably knows the route like the back of his hand. He's a great guy- parked near him this past Oshkosh. If you write him he'll call you back w/ his phone no. He will be at Sun-N-Fun this year (via his C-172) and doing a PIETENPOL forum. He's also doing a Piet forum at Oshkosh this summer. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: Route to Brodhead
Date: Feb 16, 1999
For my trip planning to Broadhead I have been using www.airnav.com. Impressive site. All you do is specify range, type of fuel, type of runway, etc and it gives you a list of airports along your route. Really cool. Steve E. -----Original Message----- Michael D Cuy Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 7:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Route to Brodhead . >I am looking for suggestions for good places to stop along the way for fuel >and pitching my tent. I would prefer grass and auto fuel but am not real >picky and will take whatever works out as reasonable. Don't have a >transponder so that is the only limitation. > Ted- The guy you want to talk with is Bill Rewey, 3339 Moundview Road, Verona, WI 53593 He's not on e-mail though. Bill has taken his Piet to Sun-N-Fun several times and probably knows the route like the back of his hand. He's a great guy- parked near him this past Oshkosh. If you write him he'll call you back w/ his phone no. He will be at Sun-N-Fun this year (via his C-172) and doing a PIETENPOL forum. He's also doing a Piet forum at Oshkosh this summer. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings
Date: Feb 17, 1999
>Warren Shoun wrote: >> >> Randy, >> Don't know about the phone deal. However, I have bought several of >> their plans and would tell you that these are extraordinarily professional, >> detailed and well thought out plans, which include color photos of the >> various steps. Personally think they are well worth the money. >> Best Regards, >> Warren >Thanks for the info. Do you have the mailing address? Thanks and may >you be blessed with a tailwind. > > That will be great, the Tailwind is a great cross country airplane, perfect complement for the wonderfull Pietenpol :-) Saludos Gary Gower ________________________________________________________________________________
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: fuselage
Date: Feb 17, 1999
Sat in my fuselage tonight for the first time. OCB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Engine Noises
Date: Feb 18, 1999
> > > > Sat in my fuselage tonight for the first time. > > >OCB > Bob- Congratulations ! Feels good, eh ? (now tonight after work do the same thing, but don't forget to do a mag check before takeoff:)) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
Subject: first run on Lyc. 0-290
Date: Feb 18, 1999
WOW I mean WOW I know it was going to have more power but WOW the tail wanted to fly at 1300 rpms it runs great but now I have to do the W&B, I moved the engine aft 4" and the wing forward 5" ( the wing was back 4" for the cont 65) and with bathroom scales its lookin good. But does anyone have any good scales they'd want to share? I've thought of buying the scales from aircraft spruce (275.00 for taildragger) but would anyone want to go on shares and pass them around? thanks much Robert B. ---Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sat in my fuselage tonight for the first time. > > > > > >OCB > > > Bob- Congratulations ! Feels good, eh ? > > (now tonight after work do the same thing, but > don't forget to do a mag check before takeoff:)) > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Noises
Date: Feb 18, 1999
Get yourself a box fan so you get the feel of air rushing past you. Not bad is it? Congradulations on your accomplishment.jas >> >> >> >> Sat in my fuselage tonight for the first time. >> >> >>OCB >> >Bob- Congratulations ! Feels good, eh ? > >(now tonight after work do the same thing, but >don't forget to do a mag check before takeoff:)) > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: first run on Lyc. 0-290
Date: Feb 18, 1999
Check out your local farm and ranch store. They may lend you a scale. One scale is all you need. Did mine that way. jas > >WOW I mean WOW I know it was going to have more power but WOW the >tail wanted to fly at 1300 rpms it runs great but now I have to do the >W&B, I moved the engine aft 4" and the wing forward 5" ( the wing was >back 4" for the cont 65) and with bathroom scales its lookin good. >But does anyone have any good scales they'd want to share? I've >thought of buying the scales from aircraft spruce (275.00 for >taildragger) but would anyone want to go on shares and pass them around? > >thanks much >Robert B. > > >---Michael D Cuy wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > Sat in my fuselage tonight for the first time. >> > >> > >> >OCB >> > >> Bob- Congratulations ! Feels good, eh ? >> >> (now tonight after work do the same thing, but >> don't forget to do a mag check before takeoff:)) >> >> Mike C. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com>
Subject: Grain Orientation
Date: Feb 19, 1999
Need some advice before I cut up my beautiful douglas fir for the tail feathers. When looking at the end of the horizontal tail beams, which way should the grain be oriented? Seems like for best bending strength the grain should be vertical, like the rib capstrips, which would be good for the hinge bolts to run through. But for the tail brace wire lug bolts it would be better with the grain horizontal. My plans aren't real clear on this, nor are any of the other wood aircraft design books I have. Help, have to cut up this fir before the wife makes plans for it! Mike List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: Grain Orientation
Date: Feb 19, 1999
To all: Which way will the wood be strongest? I thought the orientation of the rib capstrips was supposed to be horizontal, or perpendicular to the forces acting on them in the air (parallel to the ground as the plane is standing on it). Have I got it wrong? Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Need some advice before I cut up my beautiful douglas fir for the tail > feathers. When looking at the end of the horizontal tail beams, which > way should the grain be oriented? Seems like for best bending strength > the grain should be vertical, like the rib capstrips, which would be > good for the hinge bolts to run through. But for the tail brace wire > lug bolts it would be better with the grain horizontal. My plans aren't > real clear on this, nor are any of the other wood aircraft design books > I have. Help, have to cut up this fir before the wife makes plans for > it! > > Mike List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Grain Orientation
Date: Feb 19, 1999
It doesn't matter in this situation since you have holes drilled both vertically and horizontally. Just follow Tony Bingellis' recommendations regarding use of washers and plywood under nuts and bolt heads to spread out the clamping forces. Greg Cardinal >>> michael list 02/19 3:12 AM >>> Need some advice before I cut up my beautiful douglas fir for the tail feathers. When looking at the end of the horizontal tail beams, which way should the grain be oriented? Seems like for best bending strength the grain should be vertical, like the rib capstrips, which would be good for the hinge bolts to run through. But for the tail brace wire lug bolts it would be better with the grain horizontal. My plans aren't real clear on this, nor are any of the other wood aircraft design books I have. Help, have to cut up this fir before the wife makes plans for it! Mike List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smith, Randy" <RSmith2(at)reedtool.com>
Subject: RE: Grain Orientation
Date: Feb 19, 1999
Normally capstrips have their grain oriented vertically so the gusset nails, or staples in my case, do not tend to split the capstrip. Of course if you're using a glue-up jig without nails, it doesn't really matter. Regards, Randy S. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grain Orientation To all: Which way will the wood be strongest? I thought the orientation of the rib capstrips was supposed to be horizontal, or perpendicular to the forces acting on them in the air (parallel to the ground as the plane is standing on it). Have I got it wrong? Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Need some advice before I cut up my beautiful douglas fir for the tail > feathers. When looking at the end of the horizontal tail beams, which > way should the grain be oriented? Seems like for best bending strength > the grain should be vertical, like the rib capstrips, which would be > good for the hinge bolts to run through. But for the tail brace wire > lug bolts it would be better with the grain horizontal. My plans aren't > real clear on this, nor are any of the other wood aircraft design books > I have. Help, have to cut up this fir before the wife makes plans for > it! > > Mike List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dean Dayton <deandayton(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: substitute?
Date: Feb 19, 1999
I know I may sound like a heretic, but I've got an opportunity to buy a flying Horizon 2 (Fisher Aero design). I'ts got an 80HP Limbach with 65 hrs on it. Does anybody know anything (good or bad) about this design or engine? I probably won't stop building the Piet. But at the rate I'm going, I may be to old to fly it by the time I'm done;-) Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Subject: Re: substitute?
Date: Feb 19, 1999
Dean Dayton wrote: > > I know I may sound like a heretic, but I've got an opportunity to buy a > flying Horizon 2 (Fisher Aero design). > > I'ts got an 80HP Limbach with 65 hrs on it. > > Does anybody know anything (good or bad) about this design or engine? > > I probably won't stop building the Piet. But at the rate I'm going, I > may be to old to fly it by the time I'm done;-) > > Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com > The Limbach is a VW conversion from Germany and is purportedly very good. As for the fisher horizon , I've only heard good things. However as with any airplane make sure and do a thorough inspection and history check. Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: substitute?
Date: Feb 20, 1999
I'm not really up on the VW engine, but I have done some reading. They say one thing to watch out for is duel ignitions that have the 2nd set of spark plugs wired through the valve covers. As this has been known to cause engine fires. Also look at the heads for single or duel port intakes. The single port doesn't breath as well as the duel intake type. >From steve(at)byu.edu Fri Feb 19 20:22:58 1999 >Received: from adena.byu.edu ("port 3338"@adena.byu.edu [128.187.22.180]) > by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #31181) > with ESMTP id <01J7XXK9FVUS8WYXIW(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com; >Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:20:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Dean Dayton <deandayton(at)hotmail.com> >Subject: substitute? >Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Errors-to: Steve(at)byu.edu >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion >Message-id: >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) >Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion" >X-Listname: > >I know I may sound like a heretic, but I've got an opportunity to buy a >flying Horizon 2 (Fisher Aero design). > >I'ts got an 80HP Limbach with 65 hrs on it. > >Does anybody know anything (good or bad) about this design or engine? > >I probably won't stop building the Piet. But at the rate I'm going, I >may be to old to fly it by the time I'm done;-) > > >Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert
Subject: Re: first run on Lyc. 0-290
Date: Feb 20, 1999
The bathroom scales are probably quite accurate! I keep our chapter's scales here at my place for the chapter. They are beam type grain scales and have been calibrated. I also made up a set of bathroom scales because I needed them when the chapter scales were out of order. They are $6.00 scales from Kmart. We recently weighed a Kitfox using both systems. The difference was 4 pounds! Thats less than 1% error and not worth worrying about in a w&b calculation. I can't guarantee all scales are that accurate but there is a good reality check - weigh yourself on each one and make sure you get the same numbers. By far the most important part of a w&b on a taildragger is to have the tail elevated the correct amount. A couple of inches will really change moment arms on a high wing airplane. Regards, Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KatyBill(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: splicing steel tubing
Date: Feb 20, 1999
The proper way to do what you are attempting is the cut the larger piece at an angle of 30-45 degrees and insert the smaller piece inside. The 2 outer pieces will need to have a space pf approx 1/8 inch so all 3 pieces an be welded to gether. Then for additional strength you can ( not req'd) go apprx 2 inches from the weld and drill a 1/8 - 3/16 inch hole in the outer tube and weld the inner piece of steel to the outer piece of tubing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
Subject: Lyc. 0-290 Atten Seibert
Date: Feb 20, 1999
Bob thank you on invfo on scales, i've been quite worried on them. i bought news one for the W&B, so far the #'s tells me I may need some wieght in the tail, we'll see...might move wing around and see what comes up, I'll keep you guys posted Robert B. ---Seibert wrote: > > The bathroom scales are probably quite accurate! > I keep our chapter's scales here at my place for the chapter. They are beam > type grain scales and have been calibrated. I also made up a set of bathroom > scales because I needed them when the chapter scales were out of order. They > are $6.00 scales from Kmart. > We recently weighed a Kitfox using both systems. The difference was 4 pounds! > Thats less than 1% error and not worth worrying about in a w&b calculation. > I can't guarantee all scales are that accurate but there is a good reality > check - weigh yourself on each one and make sure you get the same numbers. > By far the most important part of a w&b on a taildragger is to have the tail > elevated the correct amount. A couple of inches will really change moment arms > on a high wing airplane. > Regards, > Bob Seibert > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 21, 1999
Look for would prices on the internet I got 160 bf of boat lumber Doug fir and enough plywood to build two Piet's for 1500.00 this includes shipping, i'm well pleased! Russell -----Original Message----- From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Prices? >>I have a couple (few) of questions that I would like answered before I >>start building. Thanks in advance for your help. >> 1- What does it cost build the Piet with spruce? What about other >>recomended woods and their cost? > >Randy, >Below is part of a note I sent a while back when I was researching >wood prices. > >I will be placing my order shortly for all of the spruce in one shot. >Corporate bonus amount was announced, check should be here next >week. Yipeeeee!!!!! > >When I get a final price including shipping I will post it. > >Dave > >-------------------------------- > >>Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies >>Calgary, Alberta Canada >>(403)250-1955 >> >> > >I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a >fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce >only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30 >crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because >it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit >cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a >postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like >a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit >but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
Subject: Corvair
Date: Feb 21, 1999
Can anyone advise as to a fair price for a 1965 Corvair engine. I have located one that has not run for at least two years and is still in the car. What should I look for in a Corvair engine. Thanks in advance and may you be blessed with a tailwind. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lpasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: Wood Prices?
Date: Feb 21, 1999
Sounds good. Where did you find it? Thanks, Larry > Look for would prices on the internet I got 160 bf of boat lumber > Doug fir and enough plywood to build two Piet's for 1500.00 > this includes shipping, i'm well pleased! > > > Russell > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 3:31 PM > Subject: Re: Wood Prices? > > > >>I have a couple (few) of questions that I would like answered before I > >>start building. Thanks in advance for your help. > >> 1- What does it cost build the Piet with spruce? What about other > >>recomended woods and their cost? > > > >Randy, > >Below is part of a note I sent a while back when I was researching > >wood prices. > > > >I will be placing my order shortly for all of the spruce in one shot. > >Corporate bonus amount was announced, check should be here next > >week. Yipeeeee!!!!! > > > >When I get a final price including shipping I will post it. > > > >Dave > > > >-------------------------------- > > > >>Jean Peters at Western Aircraft Supplies > >>Calgary, Alberta Canada > >>(403)250-1955 > >> > >> > > > >I talked to Jean Peters today. In $US his prices are $686 for a > >fuselage and tail kit and $862 for a wing kit. This is for spruce > >only. Plywood and everything else are not included. Add a $30 > >crating charge and shipping. He uses Delta and ships by air because > >it is cheaper than trucking. I was given a 4 day lead time. Credit > >cards are not accepted (good thing for me). He wants to see a > >postal money order or some sort of guaranteed check. Seemed like > >a good person to me. He did offer to do a rib kit or a tail kit > >but the quotes were off the top of his head so I am not listing them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net>
Subject: Re: substitute?
Date: Feb 21, 1999
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dean, Two friends just got a Horizon signed off by the FAA a couple of weeks ago. Nice plane. I had it about a foot off the ground so far. They put a regular VW on it. I give you their phone numbers if you are interested in calling them. They are not on line. Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wkoucky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Corvair
Date: Feb 21, 1999
I paid $50 each for two Corvair engines a few years ago. I think up to about $200 is about average. William Koucky Traverse City, MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Titebond adhesives
Date: Feb 22, 1999
To all: Just a little information to pass along. I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and Titebond is not. Just FYI. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Fwd: Corvair Cooling
Date: Feb 22, 1999
To Domenic Bellisimo: Hi Domenic: You may have missed my original message (see below). Anyway, could you comment. Thanks. Mark Boynton Phownix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Corvair Cooling > Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:41:05 -0800 (PST) > Message-ID: > > To Domenic Bellissimo > > Domenic: > > I was reviewing the pictures of your Piet on > Richard DeCosta's website and noticed that you're using forced air cooling > for your corvair engine. How has that worked out for you and have you taken > any temperature readings? Beautiful work, by the way. Also, do you have > any kind of estimate as to how much horsepower you are developing - that is > a 110 engine isn't it? > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > _______________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mail.execpc.com"
Subject: RE: Ribs
Date: Feb 22, 1999
Would someone please sign me up again for this discussion group. I seem to have been disconnected. I learn a lot. Thanks. Arden Adamson adamson(at)execpc.com -----Original Message----- steve(at)byu.edu Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 9:25 AM To: Pietenpol Discussion Subject: RE: Ribs Good advice so far on the root rib anti-buckling problem. Here is a little more. I put the diagnals and the 2" 1/16" ply fabric strip on the cap strip for a fabric anchor and it worked fine, except that over time the rib attach point to the spars has let go a little and I would suggest increasing the surface area at this poing by gluing a piece of wood to the top and bottom of each spar as a rib stop so that the rib cannot work loose and slide outward on the spar from the root. -another problem solved if you can build the 1 piece wing. Steve E. Michael D Cuy Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 7:04 AM To: Pietenpol Discussion Subject: Re: Ribs rib or two. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a few spruce diagonals to keep those end ribs from 'bowing' in when you heat taughten the fabric. Makes em' stay aligned straight. For you guys wondering about the 'inter-rib lacing' to keep ALL of the ribs upright, there is an optional way to do this: Run 1/4" x 3/8" spruce/fir, etc. strips the whole length of the wing panels glued to each rib down the center. One strip at the bottom of each rib and one strip at the top. This took only about 15 min. per wing to do with clothes pins as clamps and T-88 glue. Mike C. suggest that you brace the butt ribs. If you don't, the ribs will bend when the fabric is tightened, I placed two diagonal braces from the cap strips top & bottom to the spars at the second bays. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Re: Titebond adhesives
Date: Feb 22, 1999
If you are planning on using an adhesive that looses 50% of it's strength at 150 deg. F, I wouldn't want to fly your airplane! The inside of my wings will reach close to 300 deg. F in the summer sun. Granted they are painted dark green and absorb a lot of heat energy. It's amazing how much heat will build up inside the structure when the sun is on it. mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > To all: > > Just a little information to pass along. > > I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy > (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. > from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt > joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to > establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't > conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been > in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about > temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at > above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 > psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between > Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and > Titebond is not. Just FYI. > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > _______________________________________________________ -- David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Fwd: Corvair Cooling
Date: Feb 22, 1999
To Domenic Bellissimo: You may have missed this message I sent to you (see below). Could you review it and comment. Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > From: mboynton(at)excite.com > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Corvair Cooling > Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:41:05 -0800 (PST) > Message-ID: > > To Domenic Bellissimo > > Domenic: > > I was reviewing the pictures of your Piet on > Richard DeCosta's website and noticed that you're using forced air cooling > for your corvair engine. How has that worked out for you and have you taken > any temperature readings? Beautiful work, by the way. Also, do you have > any kind of estimate as to how much horsepower you are developing - that is > a 110 engine isn't it? > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > _______________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Extended fuse plans error?
Date: Feb 22, 1999
I have started drawing my fuselage out for the jig, and came across an oddity. I have checked and rechecked my measurments, so I dont it's that. The measurment that reads 29 3/4" below and behind the back seat seems to be off. If I do all the measurments from the aft part of the fuse, I get that gap to be and inch short. Is this a misprint or am I missing something? Another quick question: are the seat bottoms and legs built into the sides when in the jig, or later? I should be getting all my fuse wood from Jean Peters on Wednesday. He called me to confirm something about my order, and we chatted about Piets for almost 20 minutes; on his dime! Really nice guy. I havent seen the wood yet, but I highly recommend him for customer service and friendliness. Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Hot wings.
Date: Feb 22, 1999
300 degrees!!?? May as well bake cookies! Steve E. (white wings) -----Original Message----- David B. Schober Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 3:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Titebond adhesives If you are planning on using an adhesive that looses 50% of it's strength at 150 deg. F, I wouldn't want to fly your airplane! The inside of my wings will reach close to 300 deg. F in the summer sun. Granted they are painted dark green and absorb a lot of heat energy. It's amazing how much heat will build up inside the structure when the sun is on it. mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > To all: > > Just a little information to pass along. > > I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy > (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. > from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt > joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to > establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't > conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been > in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about > temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at > above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 > psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between > Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and > Titebond is not. Just FYI. > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > _______________________________________________________ -- * David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Titebond adhesives
Date: Feb 22, 1999
Does the adhesive will "recover" his strength, once the air of take off, cools the wings down? At 8,000 ft ASL will be as hard as "Cromoly" wings :-) :-) ;-) Now serious: I glue my props I carve for personal use, with Titebond II (4 years in perfect shape with Titebond [no Titebond II available here at that time]) never "melt" in summer... could not notice any diference, remember one thing the adhesives used in Mr Pietenpol's era, {some of them are still flying to date}. "I think" (personal idea) those adhesives (casein glue, etc.) were maybe 50% the strenght of what the Titebond, or any modern good glue, gets in summer today... Just a thought, Go figure.... Saludos Gary Gower >If you are planning on using an adhesive that looses 50% of it's strength at 150 >deg. F, I wouldn't want to fly your airplane! The inside of my wings will reach >close to 300 deg. F in the summer sun. Granted they are painted dark green and >absorb a lot of heat energy. It's amazing how much heat will build up inside the >structure when the sun is on it. > >mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > >> To all: >> >> Just a little information to pass along. >> >> I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy >> (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. >> from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt >> joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to >> establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't >> conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been >> in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about >> temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at >> above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 >> psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between >> Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and >> Titebond is not. Just FYI. >> >> Mark Boynton >> Phoenix, AZ >> >> _______________________________________________________ > > >-- > >David B.Schober, CPE >Instructor, Aviation Maintenance >Fairmont State College >National Aerospace Education Center >Rt. 3 Box 13 >Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 >(304) 842-8300 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dean Dayton <deandayton(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: substitute?
Date: Feb 22, 1999
Well, I did it. I bought a the Fisher Horizon 2 prototype from Mike Fisher. It hasn't flown in about 5 years. He kept it in the showroom (and hauled it around to airshows). He's going to do an annual on it and I should have it in a couple of weeks. If your interested, there is a picture at http://www.glness.com/fisher/horizon2.html >Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:35:11 -0500 >From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> >Subject: Re: substitute? >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion > >Dean, > >Two friends just got a Horizon signed off by the FAA a couple of weeks >ago. Nice plane. I had it about a foot off the ground so far. They put a >regular VW on it. I give you their phone numbers if you are interested >in calling them. They are not on line. > >Craig > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Re: Titebond adhesives
Date: Feb 23, 1999
My wings were built in the '43/44 time frame and have never been apart. They have been recovered severla times but Howard wings are skinned with plywood prior to fabric. They were built in the factory using Casein glue and it is still holding up well. The 300 deg F is no exageration. The dark green absorbs the heat energy and the heat just continues to build. The wings are very tight, very few drain holes and only 5 inspection panels per wing. I've gone out in the early morning, OAT about 60 deg. and washed the airplane. The water will just steam off the top wing surface. Two rules. Use an adhesive that will withstand temps upt at least 250 F. Paint the upper surfaces white or a light reflective color. After that, keep the airplane out of the sun as much as possible! Gary Gower wrote: > Does the adhesive will "recover" his strength, once the air of take off, > cools the wings down? > At 8,000 ft ASL will be as hard as "Cromoly" wings :-) :-) ;-) > > Now serious: I glue my props I carve for personal use, with Titebond II (4 > years in perfect shape with Titebond [no Titebond II available here at that > time]) never "melt" in summer... could not notice any diference, remember > one thing the adhesives used in Mr Pietenpol's era, {some of them are still > flying to date}. > > "I think" (personal idea) those adhesives (casein glue, etc.) were maybe 50% > the strenght of what the Titebond, or any modern good glue, gets in summer > today... > Just a thought, Go figure.... > > Saludos > > Gary Gower > > >If you are planning on using an adhesive that looses 50% of it's strength > at 150 > >deg. F, I wouldn't want to fly your airplane! The inside of my wings will reach > >close to 300 deg. F in the summer sun. Granted they are painted dark green and > >absorb a lot of heat energy. It's amazing how much heat will build up > inside the > >structure when the sun is on it. > > > >mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > > > >> To all: > >> > >> Just a little information to pass along. > >> > >> I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy > >> (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. > >> from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt > >> joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to > >> establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't > >> conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been > >> in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about > >> temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at > >> above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 > >> psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between > >> Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and > >> Titebond is not. Just FYI. > >> > >> Mark Boynton > >> Phoenix, AZ > >> > >> _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > > >-- > > > >David B.Schober, CPE > >Instructor, Aviation Maintenance > >Fairmont State College > >National Aerospace Education Center > >Rt. 3 Box 13 > >Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 > >(304) 842-8300 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Brodhead/EAA
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Guys- Just to make sure everyone is clear on the plans for this summer......The Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh will take place PRIOR to the Pietenpol Fly-In at Brodhead. BOTH events will go on and not cancell each other. We hope to confirm an arrival date/time w/ EAA for hopefully opening day which is Weds. the 28th of July. Then on Friday or Sat. those Piet owners who want to fly down to Brodhead will do so. Please make sure that if you or you know of anyone who is planning on making the trip en-masse to Osh with us lets Grant or I know so we can keep you posted on details. Thanks ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: RE: Fwd: Corvair Cooling
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Domenic: Good stuff. Keep us posted on how the temperatures work out. Hope its cool. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Hi Mark, > > Thats a good observation. yes it is forced air cooling. I wanted to remove > the fan and twisted 90 degree fan belt. I know it may only have been a > problem with the turbo-version (belts would fly off) but I still wanted to > explore taking it off. I replaced the whole fan assembly with a 1 inch > aluminum plate which I machine cooling fins on. I placed a 1 inch border all > around the aluminum stock for the screws. The thickness at the screws was > 0.5 inches. This realy helps to stiffen the engine. As you know the corvair > engine would expand and contract and also move around a bit. This may have > been the cause of oil leaks in these engines, especially with the stamped > head and oil covers. I also replaced the head covers and oil cover with ones > I purchased from Clarks' Corvair Parts. The oil pan is also 0.5 inches thick > which helps to stiffen the engine. No oil leaks so far. > Now to answer your question: How has it worked out. well so far in ground > tests in this cold weather ...no problem. I plan to have the first flight > this April, at least thats when I'm puting on the insurance. I eventually > plan to put a six position thermal computer at all the spark plugs to > monitor the temperature in flight. i'll keep you posted but have no data as > yet. Jack Watson haas the same configuration and has been running it on the > ground for the last 5 years (no first flight as yet) and he has not > experienced any heat related problems. He has run his in the summer. Just > over the VW starter that I am using I have an air inlet for cooling the fins > on my top cover. It dumps toward the back which helps to cool my Chev. Spint > alternator. The center is separated by internal baffles like the regular > continental forced air cooling method. > Horse Power?:110 H.P.: Don't know exactly unless I test it with some scales, > but estimate graphically about 83.5 H.P. at 2800 RPM at sea level. Maybe > sometime this summer I'll set up a test with an Engineer friend of mine. If > I do I'll certainly post it. > I'm glad you liked my photo's. Thanks to Richard he posted them for all to > see. Some friends here said they could access his site but could not access > my photo's for some unknown reason. > ---------- > From: mboynton(at)excite.com > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Fwd: Corvair Cooling > Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 3:56PM > > To Domenic Bellisimo: > > Hi Domenic: > > You may have missed my original message (see below). Anyway, could you > comment. Thanks. > > Mark Boynton > Phoenix, AZ > > > From: mboynton(at)excite.com > > To: Pietenpol Discussion > > Subject: Corvair Cooling > > Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:41:05 -0800 (PST) > > Message-ID: > > > > To Domenic Bellissimo > > > > Domenic: > > > > I was reviewing the pictures of your Piet on > > Richard DeCosta's website and noticed that you're using forced air > cooling > > for your corvair engine. How has that worked out for you and have you > taken > > any temperature readings? Beautiful work, by the way. Also, do you have > > any kind of estimate as to how much horsepower you are developing - that > is > > a 110 engine isn't it? > > > > Mark Boynton > > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Corvair Cooling
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Hi Peter: That's too bad about Vertical Systems. I'm afraid I'm stumped about what to do. Does anybody out there know what happened to the company Vertical Systems. They're the ones who marketed the plans for converting the Corvair engine to use the Rinker propeller speed reduction unit. They were active on the web as late as October of last year, but seem to have disappeared since then. Thanks for the hint on the Aerolite, Peter. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Hi Mark, > > Still no progress in contacting vertical systems. My e-mail bounced back as > you described and directory assistance in S.B. drew a blank. Sounds like > they have evaporated. Any ideas? > > As for the adhesive for the wing ribs. It seems that I recall hearing from a > number of people who are using titebond in their Pietenpol construction. I > have no question that its better than anything that was available in 1929. > For myself, I'm using Aerolite on the wing ribs. It is cheap and a delight > to use. If you haven't seen or used it, it comes as a powder and a liquid > catalyst. You apply the catalyst to one piece and the glue (mixed with > water) to the other. The nice thing is that you can mix the powder with > water in a plastic container and keep it for a few weeks in the refrigerator, > using it only as it is needed. There's no waste as there is with T-88, and > its shelf life (as a powder) is eternal. You don't have to rush a job > because your charge of epoxy is kicking its catalytic process in the mixing > container (like T-88). It cleans up with soap and water and doesn't cause > problems if you get a bit on your skin or clothing. It also dries quite > rapidly if you use a thicker mix (although this seems to possibly reduce its > strength). Aerolite would be inappropriate for bonding larger surfaces, but > its perfect for wing ribs. > > I bought the $24 kit from AS&S, and after finishing my ribs the amount > consumed is almost imperceptable in the package. Aerolite has been maligned > recently in the homebuilt aircraft community, but it has a long history of > performing well on wooden aircraft. > > --Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: Titebond adhesives
Date: Feb 23, 1999
To all: I can't remember if I mentioned this, but the tech rep I spoke to at Franklin did day that as the temperature comes down, the Titebond adhesive does recover its full strength. One observation: at 18,000 psi at 150 degrees, this adhesive's tensile strength figure is still higher than that of the wood it would be supporting. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Does the adhesive will "recover" his strength, once the air of take off, > cools the wings down? > At 8,000 ft ASL will be as hard as "Cromoly" wings :-) :-) ;-) > > Now serious: I glue my props I carve for personal use, with Titebond II (4 > years in perfect shape with Titebond [no Titebond II available here at that > time]) never "melt" in summer... could not notice any diference, remember > one thing the adhesives used in Mr Pietenpol's era, {some of them are still > flying to date}. > > "I think" (personal idea) those adhesives (casein glue, etc.) were maybe 50% > the strenght of what the Titebond, or any modern good glue, gets in summer > today... > Just a thought, Go figure.... > > Saludos > > Gary Gower > > >If you are planning on using an adhesive that looses 50% of it's strength > at 150 > >deg. F, I wouldn't want to fly your airplane! The inside of my wings will reach > >close to 300 deg. F in the summer sun. Granted they are painted dark green and > >absorb a lot of heat energy. It's amazing how much heat will build up > inside the > >structure when the sun is on it. > > > >mboynton(at)excite.com wrote: > > > >> To all: > >> > >> Just a little information to pass along. > >> > >> I've been considering using Titebond II adhesive instead of a two-part epoxy > >> (considerations of ease of use and cost). I spoke with a technical rep. > >> from Franklin, the manufacturer. I told him I would be making gusseted butt > >> joints with douglas fir and asked if Franklin had done any tests to > >> establish the useful life of the glue joint. He stated that they haven't > >> conducted specific tests to answer that question but that Titebond has been > >> in use for over forty-five years with no reported failures. I asked about > >> temperature extremes (I live in the Phoenix area) and he stated that at > >> above 150 degrees F., bond strength drops by fifty percent - down to 18,000 > >> psi. He also stated that there is no difference in strength between > >> Titebond and Titebond two - just that Titebond II is water resistant and > >> Titebond is not. Just FYI. > >> > >> Mark Boynton > >> Phoenix, AZ > >> > >> _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > > >-- > > > ** > >David B.Schober, CPE > >Instructor, Aviation Maintenance > >Fairmont State College > >National Aerospace Education Center > >Rt. 3 Box 13 > >Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 > >(304) 842-8300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Winkel <rwinkel(at)i2k.com>
Subject: Re: Extended fuse plans error?
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Richard, I did not recall a problem with measurements along the length of the fuselage, so I just went back and added up the fuselage length based the numbers presented on my plan set. I built to the "extended fuselage" shown on the "supplementary plans", but I also checked the figures from the short fuselage plans dated 1-19-33. In both cased the fuselage-top and fuselage-bottom figures added up to give a consistent fuselage length. The short fuselage length worked out to 163 inches, the extended fuselage to 172.375 inches. I suggest you recheck your overall length, and every measurement. I did the framing for the aft seat bottom after the fuselage was built up into a boxed 3-D shape. Was a bit awkward to do but worked out well. Dick Winkel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: substitute?
Date: Feb 23, 1999
This is an interesting trend. The Christavia designer, Ron Mason, just recently sold the prototype of his MK 1. I'm sure you have a good plane. I've admired Fisher's designs for years and would love to build one of his Tiger Moth replicas. Hmmm... I could see a pretty yellow and black RCAF paint scheme with that big greenhouse canopy.... Ken On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Dean Dayton wrote: > Well, I did it. I bought a the Fisher Horizon 2 prototype from Mike > Fisher. It hasn't flown in about 5 years. He kept it in the showroom > (and hauled it around to airshows). He's going to do an annual on it > and I should have it in a couple of weeks. > > If your interested, there is a picture at > http://www.glness.com/fisher/horizon2.html > > > >Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:35:11 -0500 > >From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> > >Subject: Re: substitute? > >To: Pietenpol Discussion > >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion > > > >Dean, > > > >Two friends just got a Horizon signed off by the FAA a couple of weeks > >ago. Nice plane. I had it about a foot off the ground so far. They put > a > >regular VW on it. I give you their phone numbers if you are interested > >in calling them. They are not on line. > > > >Craig > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Fay <jefay(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: change of address
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Steve, Please change my account address from aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu to jefay(at)yahoo.com Thanks, John in Peoria ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com>
Subject: SPAR CAPS
Date: Feb 23, 1999
Just a short note to ask a question. If you use 1/2" spruce for the spars, and using 1/4" wood strips for the top and bottom caps, can the top and bottom caps be 1/4" aviation grade plywood instead of spruce or equivalent wood? Craig Just a short note to ask a question. If you use 1/2 spruce for the spars, and using 1/4 wood strips for the top and bottom caps, can the top and bottom caps be 1/4 aviation grade plywood instead of spruce or equivalent wood? Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Piet for Sale
Date: Feb 24, 1999
In case you haven't heard yet there is another piet for sale. Steve E. Pietenpol Aircamper for Sale 80 h.p. Ford Escort with 2.5 to 1 reduction, new Hegy 76x60 prop, 76 TTAF , new paint (Cub yellow wings and tail area, Bahamma blue fuselage, antique look motorcycle wheels with straight axle and mechanical brakes, new ignitiion system and battery, well built, frequently admired. At local 4800 altitude it takes off like a 150 h.p. Super Cub. Forced to sell. $7,000. Call Bill at 208-356-3819 home or 208-356-1415 work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: Test, Please ignore
Date: Feb 24, 1999
Couldn't resist, eh? I am trying to see if I still get mail from the group. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: subscribe
Date: Feb 24, 1999
subscribe Apparently I got knocked off ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Holland
Subject: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Too quiet out there. Have I dropped off the server again? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
>Too quiet out there. Have I dropped off the server again? > Ian- This will wake them up...... My next Piet will be VW powered with gear reduction, all pine construction, retractable gear and flaps, widened by 8" with a 35 foot four piece wing. MC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
I don't think you dropped off the server. I think everyone is just frozen up a bit. It is nice a warm down here in Texas. Near 80 for today. Just right for working on your pietenpol. Got mine togather in the shop but now I can't even run up the engine. Will have to take the wings off to get it out of the shop. Plan to move it to the airport in a month. jas >Too quiet out there. Have I dropped off the server again? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Where did you dig up plans for that sucker. I thought I burned them after building mine. Just be careful with that retractable gear. Had a little trouble with mine. Wouldn't come down unless you were at sea level. Tied in with the altimeter. Wasn't that good a design. jas >>Too quiet out there. Have I dropped off the server again? >> > >Ian- This will wake them up...... > >My next Piet will be VW powered with gear reduction, all >pine construction, retractable gear and flaps, widened by 8" >with a 35 foot four piece wing. > >MC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
>Where did you dig up plans for that sucker. I thought I burned them after >building mine. Just be careful with that retractable gear. Had a little >trouble with mine. Wouldn't come down unless you were at sea level. Tied in >with the altimeter. Wasn't that good a design. jas Oh yeah, Richard, Jim S. I forgot to tell you it will be the biplane version with a ballistic parachute system ! MC Where did you dig up plans for that sucker. I thought I burned them after building mine. Just be careful with that retractable gear. Had a little trouble with mine. Wouldn't come down unless you were at sea level. Tied in with the altimeter. Wasn't that good a design. jas Oh yeah, Richard, Jim S. I forgot to tell you it will be the biplane version with a ballistic parachute system ! MC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Test has came thru load and clear. I have been busy expanding my work shed another 11' x 33' with a front section 22' x 16' just so I can start some of my many waiting projects. Gordon writes: >Too quiet out there. Have I dropped off the server again? > > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Jim Sury's Piet
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Guys- on a more serious subject, Jim Sury in TX has been sending me .jpg photos of his progress on his GN-1 and it's looking very, very nice. Cream and orange with Continental power. I know we should not send attatchments on this list, but I wonder if Jim could send a few of his latest pics. to Richard D. to post on his now famous Piet web page ? (nothing like volunteering you, eh Jim ?) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: Jim Sury's Piet
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Nothing like getting volunteered Mike. I was waiting to do that after I get it in front of the hanger. Away from all the junk in the shop. But since I got volunteered I will send one to Richard DeCosta. jas >Guys- on a more serious subject, Jim Sury in TX has >been sending me .jpg photos of his progress on his >GN-1 and it's looking very, very nice. Cream and >orange with Continental power. I know we should not >send attatchments on this list, but I wonder if Jim could >send a few of his latest pics. to Richard D. to post on >his now famous Piet web page ? (nothing like volunteering >you, eh Jim ?) > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR CAPS
Date: Feb 25, 1999
"I" beam spars are usually made up with a plywood web & wood caps -- on the spar you describe the ply may be 1/4" thick, but 1/2 of the plys are running cross grain to the spar. You'll end up with a spar that is only equal in strength to a 1/2" wide spar. Mike C. PP, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com>
Subject: SPAR CAPS
Date: - - - , 20-
Just a short note to ask a question. If you use 1/2" spruce for the spars, and using 1/4" wood strips for the top and bottom caps, can the top and bottom caps be 1/4" aviation grade plywood instead of spruce or equivalent wood? Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR CAPS
Date: Feb 25, 1999
Craig, Michael is correct on this. Consider going to your nearby lumber yard that sells contractors I beam floor joists. They normally have samples and load carrying tables that they will give you or at least let you fondle. You will get some first hand views of grain orientation and strength comparisons. Your family probably thinks that you are worth the $100.00 that doing this right is going to cost you...{8 ) Best Regards. Warren Michael Conkling wrote: > "I" beam spars are usually made up with a plywood web & wood caps -- on the > spar you describe the ply may be 1/4" thick, but 1/2 of the plys are > running cross grain to the spar. You'll end up with a spar that is only > equal in strength to a 1/2" wide spar. > > Mike C. > PP, KS > > ---------- > From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: SPAR CAPS > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 10:04 PM > > Just a short note to ask a question. If you use 1/2" spruce for the spars, > and using 1/4" wood strips for the top and bottom caps, can the top and > bottom caps be 1/4" aviation grade plywood instead of spruce or equivalent > wood? > > Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Engine for sale
Date: Feb 26, 1999
I came across this on the Wings Online page. It would probably fit a Piet nicely..... For Sale Lycoming O145 2/25/99 - Lycoming O145 of tcraft w/logs includes mags and carb complete engine $1000. 200smoh aceaeromotive(at)hotmail.com Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Bingelis Books
Date: Feb 26, 1999
Hi My Wife works at a library and gets good discounts on book purchases for us. Can anyone give me the ISBN (library of congress) numbers for Tony Binglis books so that I can order them I have only found one # so I know I can get the books for $18.00 each (better than EAA member price) Thanks John Duprey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jgmatt2(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Bingelis Books
Date: Feb 26, 1999
John: The Tony Bingelis book Sportsplane Construction Techniques is 0-940000-92-X and The Sprotsplane Builder is 0-940000-30-X for the ISBN numbers. I do not have the other two. Joe Matthews Columbus, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry Davis
Subject: GN-1 Landing gear
Date: Feb 28, 1999
Does anyone know the gage of the channel on the landing gear that goes under the Fus. . This holds the gear together and there are two of them, front and rear. Thanks Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Date: Mar 02, 1999
Hello.....Anyone out there? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com>
Subject: Oil Lines, Model A Ford Engine
Date: Mar 02, 1999
Hello, Does anyone have detail plans that show how the additional oil lines are installed on the Model A Ford engine (or can describe the proceedure)? The plans from Pietenpol are incomplete and confusing. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Need suggestions
Date: Mar 02, 1999
O.K. Here's the deal. I haven't had to order plans yet because I had a rib given to me that I made a jig out of, so I've been up to my ears in rib building. When I order plans, I'll order the exteded fuse. option too, along with supplemental plans for aileron gap seal, 3 piece wing, etc., etc., etc. So far I'm up to about $200. Any suggestions? Also, I have access to 4"X7/8"X14' spruce. Can I get away with the 7/8" on the longerons, or should I plane it down to 1/2" and laminate 2 pieces together? Any insight will be appreciated. Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Inspired
Date: Mar 02, 1999
I have always loved flying and generally anything to do with aviation, but I have never felt to inspired as I do after visiting the X-Prize web site (url below). This has little to do with the Piet directly, but I'm sure most of you will appreciate it. For those of us too young to have been around durring other historical events, we now can feel like we are witnessing history being made. http://www.xprize.org Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smith, Randy" <RSmith2(at)reedtool.com>
Subject: RE: Need suggestions
Date: Mar 02, 1999
It's a shame to make sawdust of good spruce, why not laminate it up to 1 inch with 1/8 stock? Regards, R. Smith -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 9:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need suggestions O.K. Here's the deal. I haven't had to order plans yet because I had a rib given to me that I made a jig out of, so I've been up to my ears in rib building. When I order plans, I'll order the exteded fuse. option too, along with supplemental plans for aileron gap seal, 3 piece wing, etc., etc., etc. So far I'm up to about $200. Any suggestions? Also, I have access to 4"X7/8"X14' spruce. Can I get away with the 7/8" on the longerons, or should I plane it down to 1/2" and laminate 2 pieces together? Any insight will be appreciated. Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Need suggestions
Date: Mar 02, 1999
If this is quality air dry Sitka Spruce, rather than white lumber yard spruce, AND is clear, true vertical grain, with more than 8 rings per inch, you would be quite safe in just ripping 1" wide stock X 7/8" deep. Brace all of your corner points with 1" triangle pieces with the vertical grain placed to take any additional compression. Use good quality birch ply for gussets and you will have a very strong fuselage. Warren "Smith, Randy" wrote: > It's a shame to make sawdust of good spruce, why not laminate it up to 1 > inch with 1/8 stock? > Regards, > R. Smith > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 9:42 AM > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Need suggestions > > O.K. Here's the deal. I haven't had to order plans yet because I had a > rib given to me that I made a jig out of, so I've been up to my ears in > rib building. > > When I order plans, I'll order the exteded fuse. option too, along with > supplemental plans for aileron gap seal, 3 piece wing, etc., etc., etc. > So far I'm up to about $200. Any suggestions? > > Also, I have access to 4"X7/8"X14' spruce. Can I get away with the 7/8" > on the longerons, or should I plane it down to 1/2" and laminate 2 > pieces together? > > Any insight will be appreciated. > > Larry Ragan > Jacksonville, Fl. > lragan(at)hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jgmatt2(at)aol.com
Subject: Oshkosh
Date: Mar 02, 1999
Greetings: I hear that there will be a Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh this year. I am going this year and would like to know what you folks have planned. I am not a Pietenpol owner/driver but have an interest. Could someone give me the scoopage on your plans/schedule for this year. Thanks, Joe Matthews Columbus, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry Davis
Subject: Re: Need suggestions
Date: Mar 02, 1999
>O.K. Here's the deal. I haven't had to order plans yet because I had a >rib given to me that I made a jig out of, so I've been up to my ears in >rib building. > >When I order plans, I'll order the exteded fuse. option too, along with >supplemental plans for aileron gap seal, 3 piece wing, etc., etc., etc. >So far I'm up to about $200. Any suggestions? > >Also, I have access to 4"X7/8"X14' spruce. Can I get away with the 7/8" >on the longerons, or should I plane it down to 1/2" and laminate 2 >pieces together? > >Any insight will be appreciated. > > >Larry Ragan >Jacksonville, Fl. >lragan(at)hotmail.com > > I remember reading that Bernie measured to 1" then cut to the center of the mark. The kerf of the blade (thickness) is lost in sawdust when cutting the wood resulting in longerons of approx. 7/8" x 7/8". The piet is kinda overbuilt anyway. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Oil Lines, Model A Ford Engine
Date: Mar 02, 1999
Hi Glenn The changes are reasonably well depicted on Dwg 8 of the 1933 plans drawn by Orrin Hoopman. Some of the missing detail is I suppose due to assumed knowledge of the A. In stock configuration the A is oil by gravity and splash. The large oil tube that runs at an angle from the valve chamber drains oil into the timing end or front of the splash pan. This oil runs back filling the dipper troughs of the pan splash pan. Oil runs by gravity from the valve chamber to through the drillings in the block to the main bearings. The conversion has the cast iron side cover replaced with a steel sheet. When you remove the cover you will see a tube cast into the block that slopes up from the oil pump towards the cam gear end of the valve chamber. This is the oil pump outlet. The copper line inserted into the oil outlet carries oil from here to the front (formerly rear main) and is T'd into the center main. The 1/8th pipe plug just above the pan flange on the oil pump casting bump is a pressure port. ( If you want to scare yourself put an oil pressure gauge here :-). This line, from the port, fills oil into the prop end of the splash pan for the connecting rod dippers. The other line from the bottom of the rear end of the valve chamber drains the oil from the chamber to the front end of the splash pan. You will have to drill and tap this hole. 1/4" seems small but I figure that Bernie was counting on less oil in the chamber by piping it from the pump outlet to the front of the splash pan. Notice in the drawings that the splash pan has dams and baffles welded into it. Some of the early A's had a tube pressed into the rear main to carry oil away from the crank main slinger. Cut this tube off and extend the splash pan to catch the oil. If I was doing it I would consider having an aluminum pan made up that steel pan is heavy. Hope this helps John Mc -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 6:26 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oil Lines, Model A Ford Engine >Hello, > >Does anyone have detail plans that show how the additional oil lines are >installed on the Model A Ford engine (or can describe the proceedure)? The >plans from Pietenpol are incomplete and confusing. > >Thanks, Glenn > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Lines, Model A Ford Engine
Date: Mar 03, 1999
>snip< >If I was doing it I would consider having an aluminum pan made up that steel >pan is heavy. > >Hope this helps Hello John, I am sure that your description will help. I am trying to locate this information for a friend that is strongly considering builting a Piet, but only if he can get some answers before he starts. I will give him your information, which I know he will appreciate very much! He is very knowledgable on the Model A engine (he has rebuilt many) and should have no problem with your description. Thanks very much! Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: carb heat
Date: Mar 03, 1999
I have 6 inch exhaust stacks on my C-85-12. I was wondering how to fabricate a heat exchanger for some heat for my carb. Anybody got any suggestions. 6 inches of exhaust stack isn't a lot to work with. jas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh
Date: Mar 03, 1999
>Greetings: > >I hear that there will be a Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh this year. I am >going this year and would like to know what you folks have planned. I am not >a Pietenpol owner/driver but have an interest. Could someone give me the >scoopage on your plans/schedule for this year. >>Thanks, >>Joe Matthews >Columbus, GA > Joe- We are planning a 'mass fly-in' of Pietenpols/GN-1's to Oshkosh on opening day, Weds. July 28th. THIS DATE has not been totally confirmed yet but most likely will be the day. Tom Poberezny said he would like us there early since alot of the crowds leave towards the weekend or right after. The good part about this is that we will be able to have the Piets at Oshkosh for a day or two, then fly down Thurs, Friday to the Brodhead, WI Pietenpol Fly-In and enjoy BOTH events BACK to BACK. I should be a great time- the more Piets the better. I am keeping track of who is joining us to Oshkosh for our newletter editor Grant MacLaren. (so EAA knows how many parking spots to rope off for us) Grant has been working with Golda Cox and Tom Poberezny at EAA and hopes to do a multimedia presentation on Pietenpols one night at the Theater in the Woods. Also on opening day Bill Rewey will be doing a tent forum at EAA about Pietenpols. Please spread the word and hope to see you at BOTH events !! Mike Cuy Clev. OH Greetings: I hear that there will be a Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh this year. I am going this year and would like to know what you folks have planned. I am not a Pietenpol owner/driver but have an interest. Could someone give me the scoopage on your plans/schedule for this year. Thanks, Joe Matthews Columbus, GA Joe- We are planning a 'mass fly-in' of Pietenpols/GN-1's to Oshkosh on opening day, Weds. July 28th. THIS DATE has not been totally confirmed yet but most likely will be the day. Tom Poberezny said he would like us there early since alot of the crowds leave towards the weekend or right after. The good part about this is that we will be able to have the Piets at Oshkosh for a day or two, then fly down Thurs, Friday to the Brodhead, WI Pietenpol Fly-In and enjoy BOTH events BACK to BACK. I should be a great time- the more Piets the better. I am keeping track of who is joining us to Oshkosh for our newletter editor Grant MacLaren. (so EAA knows how many parking spots to rope off for us) Grant has been working with Golda Cox and Tom Poberezny at EAA and hopes to do a multimedia presentation on Pietenpols one night at the Theater in the Woods. Also on opening day Bill Rewey will be doing a tent forum at EAA about Pietenpols. Please spread the word and hope to see you at BOTH events !! Mike Cuy Clev. OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LanhamOS(at)aol.com
Subject: Re:Sources of Ford Engine Parts
Date: Mar 04, 1999
As some of you are searching for parts, here a few sources.. Antique Auto , 3560 Chestnut, Pl. Denver, CO 802216, 800 846 7332 B HJigh Compression Heads, does babbit pouring, align boring, 660 brass thrust washers. Mike and Ed Stein, 31 Gilbert RdSouthampton, Ma. 010703 413 527 5129 Hart's Auto Parts, 419 399 477 Cecil, Oh. Check with your local Modeal A Club for more sources. I have a lot more if someone needs them. Keep em flying.. Dr. O Lanham, Bellevue, Ne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
Subject: Help!
Date: Mar 04, 1999
I've lost all my Piet links. I've searched and found 4 links. I'd appreciate others if you would send them to me. Thanks in advance and may you be blessed with a tailwind, Randy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: Help!
Date: Mar 04, 1999
All my links are here: http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/links.shtml Richard ---RGASKIN wrote: > > I've lost all my Piet links. I've searched and found 4 links. I'd > appreciate others if you would send them to me. Thanks in advance and > may you be blessed with a tailwind, Randy. > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol Fly - In
Date: Mar 05, 1999
A Pietenpol Fly-In is scheduled for Sept. 11, at Benton Airport, about 10 miles northeast of Wichita KS. I'm curious as to how many Pietenpols are in the Wichita area, and can make it there. We would also like to spark some interest in this type, and invite everyone to attend. Maybe even convince a few people that the time and effort to build one is well worth it. As for the wing that is here in my living / dining room...it looks WAY COOL, and is comming along nicely !!! The ribs are all nailed in place on the spars, the leading edge is bolted & glued on, the trailing edge is glued on, the pieces are all cut and pre-fit for the ailerons, and I'm now working on epoxying these pieces in place. Chuck Gantzer Wichita KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 05, 1999
FYI... yesterday I finally received my shipment of fuselage material from Western Aircraft Supply. The spruce is of SUPREME quality. Absolutely perfect. If you order from him, and you live in the US, however, be prepared to wait about a week for the wood to clear customs. Man! What a lot of hassle that was! Anyway, now that I have it I can start building something to sit in... The pieces in the kit are cut to the the right lengths (actually just over) and you cut the appropriate angles, etc, to fit it together, and 90% of them are labed as to what they are, and where they go (written on masking tape). I'm very impressed. Only one piece got damaged in shipping, and it was a small piece, easily replaced. A very happy Camper, Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 05, 1999
Richard, I know that the address and the phone number have been on this group before but could you let me know again what they are? Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 05, 1999
The address is on my suppliers page: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder/piet/Suppliers.shtml ---Craig & Shari Hanson wrote: > > Richard, > > I know that the address and the phone number have been on this group before > but could you let me know again what they are? > Craig > > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gandalf <gandalf(at)goldcom.com>
Subject: Re: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 05, 1999
Richard DeCosta wrote: > A very happy Camper, > Richard Er, shouldn't that be, "A very happy Air Camper?" -- "Everything that can be invented has been invented." - director of the US Patent Office, 1899. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert
Subject: Re: Built up spars
Date: Mar 06, 1999
Greg, I finally got to talk to Tony Bingelis last night about the built up spar techniques. (I just had not seen him for over a month!) Tony feels the gluing/clamping method used should match the kind of glue being used. The epoxy glues would really work well with vacuum bagging. His main warning was that the epoxys set up too fast to have that be practical. By the time you assemble a large part, and get it bagged, most epoxys have "gone off". Tony says to be careful or you could wind up with a big expensive mess. He said he has heard there are some slow epoxys on the market now but he has not used them. He indicated that he really liked the idea but had not tried it himself. He was real enthused with the idea and said that if you have the vacuum bagging equipment, it would sure be an easy way to build a spar! The non-epoxy glues really take more clamping pressure than vacuum bagging will give and he did not recommend trying vacuum bagging with other types of glue. Sounds like C-clamp manufacturers still have some job security! Regards, Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jgmatt2(at)aol.com
Subject: Gadgets for builders
Date: Mar 06, 1999
Greetings to the members of the discussion group: I am writing an article on the gadgets, special tools, benches that builders need to build in order to actually build the aircraft. There have been articles which touch on this subject, but nothing comprehensive. They tend to be specific to a particular aircraft. I have gathered a number of items, but a more robust list with good examples would be ideal. So, I am looking for ideas. The deal is that I will give full credit for any ideas used. Unfortunately, I cannot pay for them. Writing has not been a way to get rich. You would be basically putting your idea into the public domain for others to use and benefit from. If thats cool with you, we are in business. I can recieve pictures drawings, whatever it takes to get the idea accross. Any questions, please e-mail me directly. Thanks, Joe Matthews Columbus, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lpasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead/EAA
Date: Mar 06, 1999
At this time I am not sure about Osh. and B'head this summer. I have a GN-1 that is ready to fly, but I haven't flown much in four years and don't know if I'm up to the trip. Please keep me informed about the plans though. How soon in advance will you need to know who's showing up? Thanks, Larry Pasley > Guys- Just to make sure everyone is clear on the plans > for this summer......The Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh > will take place PRIOR to the Pietenpol Fly-In at Brodhead. > BOTH events will go on and not cancell each other. > We hope to confirm an arrival date/time w/ EAA for hopefully > opening day which is Weds. the 28th of July. Then on > Friday or Sat. those Piet owners who want to fly down to > Brodhead will do so. > Please make sure that if you or you know of anyone > who is planning on making the trip en-masse to Osh with us > lets Grant or I know so we can keep you posted on > details. > > Thanks ! > > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 06, 1999
>Absolutely perfect. If you order from him, and you live in the US, >however, be prepared to wait about a week for the wood to clear >customs. Man! What a lot of hassle that was! > Richard, What kinds of problems did you have with customs? I will be having my wood delivered to the Rochester, NY airport which is an international airport and local. My plan is to pick up the wood there to save on trucking it to the house. Would it be better to have the wood shipped to Toronto and just drive it across the border myself? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Western Aircraft Supply
Date: Mar 06, 1999
Check with your shipper for a "freight forwarder" or "customs broker" office. They do this all the time, know the forms and often even the customs officers personally and usually the cost is minimal. Good Luck, Warren Dave and Connie wrote: > > >Absolutely perfect. If you order from him, and you live in the US, > >however, be prepared to wait about a week for the wood to clear > >customs. Man! What a lot of hassle that was! > > > Richard, > > What kinds of problems did you have with customs? I will be having > my wood delivered to the Rochester, NY airport which is an > international airport and local. My plan is to pick up the wood > there to save on trucking it to the house. Would it be better to > have the wood shipped to Toronto and just drive it across the > border myself? > > Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
I have cranked out my first few wing ribs, using the glue and clamp method. I am thinking it would be better to nail the gussets rather than clamp, so I can speed production. I would use brass aircraft nails, a friend advised me against nailing. I would like to here others opinions and experiences. Thanks John Duprey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
I used a staple gun on mine. Sppeded things up tremendously. I could do a rib in about 2 hours (not including drying time). ---John Duprey wrote: > > I have cranked out my first few wing ribs, using the glue and clamp > method. I am thinking it would be better to nail the gussets rather than > clamp, so I can speed production. I would use brass aircraft nails, a > friend advised me against nailing. I would like to here others opinions > and experiences. > > Thanks > John Duprey > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 07, 1999
Hi, It is that time of the year again - annual time! I stripper her yesterday and have a question. We have threaded aluminum rod, with a nut at each end, used to connect the top and bottom of the long flat aluminum piece (I can't remember the proper name at this moment) that covers the joint between the wings and the center section. Some of the nuts corroded with the aluminum rod and broke off. I am looking for alternatives. What have you used that you have found to be better? Thanks, Ted Of course the weather is perfect. Not a cloud in the sky, near 80 and little wind. Just wait till we get back into the air... or until I try to fly to Brodhead this summer. Do you think we will have this kind of weather then??? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
John; I have used several methods of gussett attachment over the years. On the thick (1/2") Piet ribs, you can use 1/4" steel, brass & cement coated aircraft nails or an electric staple gun. The nail method goes all the way back to the Wrght Bros so it is the typical method to use. One of my planes had 1/4" thick ribs so nailing on that one wasn't the best choice.With the nails, I used a magnetic tack hammer. The small magnetic end will keep the small nail head put to lightly "set" the nail into the rib thru the gussett. You then flip or rotate the hammer to the face side to finish driving the nails, 4 to 6 per gussett. Don't use nails any longer than 1/4" as this will keep the nail tips from touching each other from one side to the other considering the gussett thicknesses...... With the staple gun, use "fine wire" staples and be carefull of the "striking" force the stapler uses so you don't crush the wood. I always just left the staples in the ribs as the marginal extra weight wasn't worth the extra time or damaging the wood trying to pry out the staples. Don't make a big deal about leaving the staples in......but make sure you don't use the thick or heavy duty staples as they will split the ribwood. I also exclusively use T-88 Epoxy Glue as it is structurly gap filling and will follow the nail down into the wood. By the time you get the rib making down pat, you will be done! Earl Myers -----Original Message----- From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 8:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To nail or not to nail, that is the question. >I have cranked out my first few wing ribs, using the glue and clamp >method. I am thinking it would be better to nail the gussets rather than >clamp, so I can speed production. I would use brass aircraft nails, a >friend advised me against nailing. I would like to here others opinions >and experiences. > >Thanks >John Duprey > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
In a message dated 3/7/99 8:19:41 AM Central Standard Time, aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes: << Subj: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question. Date: 3/7/99 8:19:41 AM Central Standard Time From: aircamper(at)yahoo.com (Richard DeCosta) Sender: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu Reply-to: piet(at)byu.edu (Pietenpol Discussion) To: piet(at)byu.edu (Pietenpol Discussion) I used a staple gun on mine. Sppeded things up tremendously. I could do a rib in about 2 hours (not including drying time). ---John Duprey wrote: > > I have cranked out my first few wing ribs, using the glue and clamp > method. I am thinking it would be better to nail the gussets rather than > clamp, so I can speed production. I would use brass aircraft nails, a > friend advised me against nailing. I would like to here others opinions > and experiences. > > Thanks > John Duprey >> I used weights on my gussets, with T88 Epoxy. They say that ya don't want to squeeze out T88 too much, and using weights took less time than nailing, and it left a clean looking gusset. It took 15 different weights, of aprox. 10 to 15 oz each. Heavy duty half inch drive sockets worked well. One problem I had using this method, was out of the whole stack of ribs, on 4 different gussets they leaned a little, because the weight wasn't centered, and I had to replace them. Ya will soon discover exactly how much epoxy is required to do the gussets on the rib in the jig, and the gussets on the flip side of the rib that was just removed. Happy glueing John, and don't forget to take some pictures !! Chuck Gantzer ps Hey Richard D., who is Gordon Baxter ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 07, 1999
I have used cabinetmaker's screw inserts set into a small block glued to the underside of the rib. They take a #6 stainless machine screw. Since you will be going through the capstrip be certain that the block is of sufficient size to eliminate any loss of strength (do not use this method unless you are following the plans and are using 1/4" X 1/2" ribstock. A description of the insert I used appeared in an issue of the BPA Newsletter about four to six issues back. It worked great for me. I also used this method for attaching my cockpit and engine cowling. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
John, Earl Myers reply to your questions re: nailing was very good Over the years (40) I have used mostly 1/4 brass nails and Weldwood Plastic Resin glue with excellent results but it is more critcal than T-88 regarding temp, mixing consistency and pressure. I used staples for the first time (on my leading edge} with T-88 and was pleasantly surprised at how fast and effective it was. I would not hesitate to recommend this was to go on rib gussets. I agree with Earl re: leaving in the staples. The same goes for nails. The weight is insignificant and I have see antiques put together with caseine glue where the glue had deteriorated and the only thing holding it together was the nails! You won't go wrong following Earl's advice. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com>
Subject: Happy99.exe
Date: Mar 07, 1999
I have found out that the Happy99.exe attachment may be a virus. Do not open it Craig I have found out that the Happy99.exe attachment may be a virus. Do not open it Craig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Know where to steal good ideas...
Date: Mar 07, 1999
Hi All! Found a good article in the March/April 1999 "WoodenBoat" ( I had gotten that issue for an article on making a 7" smoothing wood plane & discovered the other article!! ;-) -- it was a product review on Aerodux 500 resorcinol glue for boats. Compared to the US resorcinol glues, this product can be used as low as 45 degrees F & with glue joints up to 1/16 inch. There are (3) speeds (!) ranging from 15 min to 2 hrs (at 90 degrees F). This should be a product to watch!! The only down side is there is no distributor in the US! (it has used in England for the past 30 years) It could be available by the time I get to any major wood work!! ;-) Mike Conkling Pretty Prairie, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 07, 1999
Couldn't say where this came from! My reply was a "reply to author" response.......I did see a Happy 99 message come back in along with my regular Piet mail. It must have piggybacked thru me, however, I havn't had a problem with a/this "virus" nor do I have any anti-virus "medicine" in the computer. I will have shortly. I guess it didn't "get" me??? I don't know if I would know what a virus is I guess (yet) ??? Sorry?????????? -----Original Message----- From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virus Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 22:32:32 -0500 Hi Guys: Happy99 is a virus, the others are right DO NOT OPEN! It fried some computers at my office. John Duprey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: andy picklesimer
Subject: Re: happy 99 virus
Date: Mar 07, 1999
Use your search engine and search "happy 99." You get get a couple of hits on sites with instructions on how to delete the virus. I have seen it sent at least 6 times in the last two weeks. Maybe we should lable all attachements, pictures or otherwise, with an aviation name so we wont be gun-shy about opening files. -----Original Message----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead/EAA Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:07:35 -0500 >At this time I am not sure about Osh. and B'head this summer. I have a GN-1 >that is ready to fly, but I haven't flown much in four years and don't know >if I'm up to the trip. Please keep me informed about the plans though. How >soon in advance will you need to know who's showing up? >Thanks, Larry Pasley > >Larry- The plan is to gather at Hartford, WI the night before opening day of OSH (wed. July 28th is opening day) EAA needs to know about how many parking places to rope off for us to keep us together so if you know by say 3 weeks ahead of time or even maybe 2 that should be good. They don't expect us to have it down to the exact number, but a good estimate is what's needed. Thanks for asking and let us know if you will be joining us as time gets closer. Mike Cuy At this time I am not sure about Osh. and B'head this summer. I have a GN-1 that is ready to fly, but I haven't flown much in four years and don't know if I'm up to the trip. Please keep me informed about the plans though. How soon in advance will you need to know who's showing up? Thanks, Larry Pasley Larry- The plan is to gather at Hartford, WI the night before opening day of OSH (wed. July 28th is opening day) EAA needs to know about how many parking places to rope off for us to keep us together so if you know by say 3 weeks ahead of time or even maybe 2 that should be good. They don't expect us to have it down to the exact number, but a good estimate is what's needed. Thanks for asking and let us know if you will be joining us as time gets closer. Mike Cuy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Fly-in
Date: Mar 08, 1999
>Hi Michael, > I have a question, is there any chance of catching a ride with one >of the pilots in the EAA fly-in? I live near Green Bay, WI and would be >willing to drive to meet a ride. I plan on building a Pietenpol some day >and a ride in one sure would give me an idea what it's like. The plans I >have, now I'm in the process of building a place to build it. > > Bob- Keep your eyes on Grant's Piet web site for details, but your best bet is to post just what you did here to me to the Piet discussion group Piet(at)byu.edu The plan is for all Piets going into OSH to meet July 27th. eve. at Hartford, WI then lauch off to EAA on opening day, Weds. July 28th. Then most/all will migrate down to Brodhead WI on Thurs/Friday/Sat to join up for the regular Piet Fly-In which will take place as usual. Your chances of catching a ride are far greater at Brodhead than at EAA though. ps- I'm cc:'ing this to our fine discussion group and who knows, maybe you'll get a bite. All the best, Michael Cuy Hi Michael, I have a question, is there any chance of catching a ride with one of the pilots in the EAA fly-in? I live near Green Bay, WI and would be willing to drive to meet a ride. I plan on building a Pietenpol some day and a ride in one sure would give me an idea what it's like. The plans I have, now I'm in the process of building a place to build it. Bob Bob- Keep your eyes on Grant's Piet web site for details, but your best bet is to post just what you did here to me to the Piet discussion group Piet(at)byu.edu The plan is for all Piets going into OSH to meet July 27th. eve. at Hartford, WI then lauch off to EAA on opening day, Weds. July 28th. Then most/all will migrate down to Brodhead WI on Thurs/Friday/Sat to join up for the regular Piet Fly-In which will take place as usual. Your chances of catching a ride are far greater at Brodhead than at EAA though. ps- I'm cc:'ing this to our fine discussion group and who knows, maybe you'll get a bite. All the best, Michael Cuy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Holland
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 08, 1999
I used the brass aircraft nails and a pair of tweezers and had no problems. The key issue is the glue drying time. That is more of a limiting factor than putting in about 150 nails per rib. If I had to do it over again, I would still use the nails. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Built up spars
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Thanks Bob, and tell Tony thanks too. I think I'm going to go ahead and use the clamping method. I'm using the Gougen West Epoxy System for my whole plane. I noticed in this months Sport Aviation there was another West System fan. I think it was the 'Cotton Candy' builder but I maybe wrong. I always read the magazine front to back and sometimes the details are fuzzy the first time through. I'll have to go back and look. Greg Yotz Seibert wrote: > Greg, > I finally got to talk to Tony Bingelis last night about the built up spar techniques. > (I just had not seen him for over a month!) > Tony feels the gluing/clamping method used should match the kind of glue being used. > The epoxy glues would really work well with vacuum bagging. His main warning > was that the epoxys set up too fast to have that be practical. By the time you > assemble a large part, and get it bagged, most epoxys have "gone off". Tony > says to be careful or you could wind up with a big expensive mess. He said he > has heard there are some slow epoxys on the market now but he has not used > them. He indicated that he really liked the idea but had not tried it himself. > He was real enthused with the idea and said that if you have the vacuum > bagging equipment, it would sure be an easy way to build a spar! > The non-epoxy glues really take more clamping pressure than vacuum bagging > will give and he did not recommend trying vacuum bagging with other types of glue. > Sounds like C-clamp manufacturers still have some job security! > Regards, > Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Ted; Most of the Piet's up here use either small ss screws into the rib (some reinforced for this, some not) along the edge of the metal "root rib gap seal" OR are laced top to bottom with leather, uh, thong material or....like you use on the bottom of your sidearm holster to wrap around your leg..............I have a one piece wing so didn't need a thong cord or laceing cord or whatever you might call it! Earl Myers PS: Just had a big snow storm, expecting a whopper tommorrow and another Sat......80 degrees, what is that like anyways? Won't see that till late June here! -----Original Message----- From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fasteners? >Hi, > >It is that time of the year again - annual time! I stripper her yesterday >and have a question. We have threaded aluminum rod, with a nut at each end, >used to connect the top and bottom of the long flat aluminum piece (I can't >remember the proper name at this moment) that covers the joint between the >wings and the center section. Some of the nuts corroded with the aluminum >rod and broke off. >I am looking for alternatives. What have you used that you have found to be >better? > >Thanks, Ted > >Of course the weather is perfect. Not a cloud in the sky, near 80 and >little wind. Just wait till we get back into the air... or until I try to >fly to Brodhead this summer. Do you think we will have this kind of weather >then??? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 08, 1999
To close the gap on my 3 piece wing I used an Al strip 3" wide and 12 or so feet long. strapped on with 1/8 bungee cord I purchased from a camping supply store. steve E. -----Original Message----- Earl Myers Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 9:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fasteners? Ted; Most of the Piet's up here use either small ss screws into the rib (some reinforced for this, some not) along the edge of the metal "root rib gap seal" OR are laced top to bottom with leather, uh, thong material or....like you use on the bottom of your sidearm holster to wrap around your leg..............I have a one piece wing so didn't need a thong cord or laceing cord or whatever you might call it! Earl Myers PS: Just had a big snow storm, expecting a whopper tommorrow and another Sat......80 degrees, what is that like anyways? Won't see that till late June here! -----Original Message----- From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fasteners? >Hi, > >It is that time of the year again - annual time! I stripper her yesterday >and have a question. We have threaded aluminum rod, with a nut at each end, >used to connect the top and bottom of the long flat aluminum piece (I can't >remember the proper name at this moment) that covers the joint between the >wings and the center section. Some of the nuts corroded with the aluminum >rod and broke off. >I am looking for alternatives. What have you used that you have found to be >better? > >Thanks, Ted > >Of course the weather is perfect. Not a cloud in the sky, near 80 and >little wind. Just wait till we get back into the air... or until I try to >fly to Brodhead this summer. Do you think we will have this kind of weather >then??? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Ted- I used small pk screws (or similar) to screw my approx. 3" wide alum. strip around the wing root/center section areas into wood blocks I glued to either face of the ribs. (or you could screw them into the rib capstrips. Originally I was going to try a few tabs of velcro about a foot apart around the airfoil to do the job but decided against that in the end. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fasteners?
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Try and find a short wing Piper (Vagabond, Pacer, Colt, Tripacer) to look at. It is a bit of work and is really smooth. The only fastener is thru the trailing edge wrap around, and is a screw that pulls the underwing portion to it from a fastener bracket flush riveted on the inside. Very simple and has worked since at least 1948. Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Happy99.exe
Date: Mar 08, 1999
This is what Norton antivirus had to say about it Virus Information Virus Name: Happy99.Worm Aliases: I-Worm. Happy Infects: N/A Likelihood: Common Length: 10000 bytes Characteristics Memory Resident No Triggered Event No Size Stealth No Encrypting No Full Stealth No Polymorphic No Comments This worm modifies WSQCK32.DLL to send itself as attachment when a posting is made to USENET or MAIL. Delete SKA.EXE and SKA.DLL in WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder and replace WSOCK32.DLL with WSOCK32.SKA in WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 08, 1999
I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to pain= t my N-number in large letters on the wing.=A0 I want to go about 24" high= .=A0 any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that big to the wings? =A0 Steve e Provo =A0 Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University =A0 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Steve the sign shops have masking film that they can cut on computer. If you can not find one then give me a call and I will have the sign shop next door do it. Ken Hannan 1-888-693-2496 toll free -----Original Message----- From: steve(at)byu.edu To: Pietenpol Discussion Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: Painting big numbers I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that big to the wings? Steve e Provo Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin McDonald <kevin.mcdonald(at)dev.tivoli.com>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 08, 1999
steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint > my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" > high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that > big to the wings? Hmm I've been trying to figure out to get large N numbers 'off' my Tri-pacer. If you fly your piet below 500 feet you want to reconsider! to me the joy of experimentals is that you get to use small N numbers... Ktm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey)
Subject: Engine question?
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Just as a matter of curosity, does anyone know of a 4 stroke Rotax 912 being installed in a Piet? Bob Bailey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 08, 1999
I thought of this and intend to paint only on the top of the wing. Maybe still not a good idea? Steve E. -----Original Message----- Kevin McDonald Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Painting big numbers steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint > my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" > high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that > big to the wings? Hmm I've been trying to figure out to get large N numbers 'off' my Tri-pacer. If you fly your piet below 500 feet you want to reconsider! to me the joy of experimentals is that you get to use small N numbers... Ktm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Yesterday's Wings plans
Date: Mar 08, 1999
To all: I should begin work on my wing ribs shortly. I intend to use the no-gap aileron plans from Gary Price @ Yesterday's Wings, when I'm ready to assemble the aileron's. My question is, do Gary prices plans call for any modification to the wing ribs I should be aware of before I launch into building the ribs according to Don Pietenpol's plans set? Thanks. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings plans
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Not at all. Would suggest that you do get his plans ahead of time though, as you will be using his plans for the end plate ribs only. He also has a really great set of plans for fiberglass wing tank, which is also very well drawn, excellent detail, and color pictures of the various construction steps. Warren . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ckgurr <CKGurr(at)micron.com>
Subject: Homebuilts
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Hello I live in Cedar Hills, UT and am building a RagWing Special about 25-30% done. I saw you email address on a post on a email list I sponsor, I'm guessing that you are a peitenpol builder. what is your building status and can your project be seen? Regards, Carlos -- Carlos K. Gurr RWS #327 (unnamed so far) Cedar Hills, UT http://netnow.micron.net/~carlosg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig & Shari Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Happy99.exe
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Ken Hannan, You wrote This worm modifies WSQCK32.DLL to send itself as attachment when a posting is made to USENET or MAIL. Delete SKA.EXE and SKA.DLL in WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder and replace WSOCK32.DLL with WSOCK32.SKA in WINDOWS\SYSTEM folder How do you replace WSOCK32.DLL with WSOCK32.SKA. I have no problems with the delete but the replace has me baffled Craig =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00W=003=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=00'=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 =005=00.=000=000=00.=000=009=001=000=00.=001=003=000=009=00"=00'=00 =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M= =00L=00>=00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00<=00/=00H=00E=00= A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=00#=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00f=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00K=00e=00n=00 =00H=00a=00n=00n=00a=00n=00,=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00Y=00o=00u=00 =00w=00r=00o=00t=00e=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00P=00>=00T=00h=00i=00s=00 =00w=00o=00r=00m=00 =00m=00o=00d=00i=00f=00i=00e=00s=00 =00W=00S=00Q=00C=00K=003=002=00.=00D=00L=00L=00 =00t=00o=00 =00s=00e=00n=00d=00 =00i=00t=00s=00e=00l=00f=00 =00a=00s=00 =00a=00t=00t=00a=00c=00h=00m=00e=00n=00t=00 =00w=00h=00e=00n=00 =00a=00 =00p=00o=00s=00t=00i=00n=00g=00 =00i=00s=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00m=00a=00d=00e=00 =00t=00o=00 =00U=00S=00E=00N=00E=00T=00 =00o=00r=00 =00M=00A=00I=00L=00.=00 =00D=00e=00l=00e=00t=00e=00 =00S=00K=00A=00.=00E=00X=00E=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00S=00K=00A=00.=00D=00L=00L=00 =00i=00n=00 =00W=00I=00N=00D=00O=00W=00S=00\=00S=00Y=00S=00T=00E=00M=00 =00f=00o=00l=00d=00e=00r=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00r=00e=00p=00l=00a=00c=00e=00 =00W=00S=00O=00C=00K=003=002=00.=00D=00L=00L=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00W=00S=00O=00C=00K=003=002=00.=00S=00K=00A=00 =00i=00n=00 =00W=00I=00N=00D=00O=00W=00S=00\=00S=00Y=00S=00T=00E=00M=00 =00f=00o=00l=00d=00e=00r=00<=00/=00P=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00H=00o=00w=00 =00d=00o=00 =00y=00o=00u=00 =00r=00e=00p=00l=00a=00c=00e=00 =00W=00S=00O=00C=00K=003=002=00.=00D=00L=00L=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00W=00S=00O=00C=00K=003=002=00.=00S=00K=00A=00.=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00I=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00n=00o=00 =00p=00r=00o=00b=00l=00e=00m=00s=00 =00w=00i=00t=00h=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00d=00e=00l=00e=00t=00e=00 =00b=00u=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 =00r=00e=00p=00l=00a=00c=00e=00 =00h=00a=00s=00 =00m=00e=00 =00b=00a=00f=00f=00l=00e=00d=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00=0D= =00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00C=00r=00a=00i=00g=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jgmatt2(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Happy99.exe
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Craig: You cannot replace the WSOCK32 file as indicated with windows. Windows will not let you do it. Exit Windows into MSDOS. Use CD to get to the Windows\SYSTEM subdirectory then copy command to replace the file. I did it and it worked fine. Restart Windows. Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gandalf <gandalf(at)goldcom.com>
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Is it possible to get brass staples for an air stapler? Ian Holland wrote: > I used the brass aircraft nails and a pair of tweezers and had no > problems. The key issue is the glue drying time. That is more of a > limiting factor than putting in about 150 nails per rib. If I had to do > it over again, I would still use the nails. -- Alan Davenport - gandalf at goldcom dot com A mouse trap placed on top of your wife's alarm clock will prevent her from rolling over and going back to sleep. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Les Lampman <lblampman(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Homebuilts
Date: Mar 08, 1999
Hi Carlos, In fact, I am building nothing at all at the moment. I am trying to arrive at a decision and am very much interested in the Pietenpol. I'd like to gain as much knowledge as I can before I make the 'big' leap. Best Regards, Les -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 3:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homebuilts Hello I live in Cedar Hills, UT and am building a RagWing Special about 25-30% done. I saw you email address on a post on a email list I sponsor, I'm guessing that you are a peitenpol builder. what is your building status and can your project be seen? Regards, Carlos -- Carlos K. Gurr RWS #327 (unnamed so far) Cedar Hills, UT http://netnow.micron.net/~carlosg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brent Reed
Subject: virus
Date: Mar 08, 1999
I am upset about this virus I have just been infected with. Steve, can't attachments be blocked from this group? Brent Reed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brent Reed
Subject: Re: virus
Date: Mar 09, 1999
I'm sorry. I got too hot there. I fixed my machine and it didn't kill me. I now see that it was not the fault of anyone on this list. I apologize. Brent Reed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Southwick <ksouth(at)urjet.net>
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 09, 1999
You can get stainless, I believe. Kevin Southwick -----Original Message----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gandalf <gandalf(at)goldcom.com>
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
>Is it possible to get brass staples for an air stapler? > >Ian Holland wrote: > >> I used the brass aircraft nails and a pair of tweezers and had no >> problems. The key issue is the glue drying time. That is more of a >> limiting factor than putting in about 150 nails per rib. If I had to do >> it over again, I would still use the nails. > > >-- >Alan Davenport - gandalf at goldcom dot com >A mouse trap placed on top of your wife's alarm clock will >prevent her from rolling over and going back to sleep. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: fuselage construction
Date: Mar 09, 1999
I have cut nearly all the side pieces for my fuselage and am nearly ready to start gluing. One question I had is: At what point do you attatch the large plywood sides that cover the front part? Do you leave it with no gussets while you construct the fuselage box, or do it while its in the jig (one side anyway)? Thanks gang! Richard BTW, I am consructing a new FAQ (frequently asked questions) from all the answers to the questions that fly around this group everytime someone like me has a newbie question. Look for it on my site in a month or two. Would be sooner, but I'm having too much fun building to worry about the website right now... :) == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Holland
Subject: Re: To nail or not to nail, that is the question.
Date: Mar 09, 1999
I don't know as I never looked into it. I did use light office staples for a couple of pieces on a trial basis (then removed them). If you are looking at a power stapler, be careful of the wire guage as some of them drive pretty aggressive. Trials previous ( not on the Piet project) with the thinnest guage power staple that I could find gave some tear out on the back side of the strip. The slow tap,tap,tap associated with the tack hammer did not cause any splits in over 3000 nails driven. I found a really nice 3 ounce brass hammer in House of Tools that worked very well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Steve, This doesn't answer your question regarding how to apply letters but it does have relevance to aircraft markings from the late '20's. Edited for brevity: Air Commerce Regulations, Aeronautics Bulletin # 7, effective June 1, 1928: Places and dimensions of marks. "...the top of the letters to be toward the leading edge, the height to be at least four-fifths of the mean chord; provided, however, that in the event four-fifths of the mean chord is more than 30 inches, the height of the letters and figures need not be more but shall not be less than 30 inches. In the case of a monoplane the mark shall be displayed on the lower surface of the left wing and the upper surface of the right wing. The marks shall also appear on both sides of the rudder, of size as large as the surface will permit, leaving a margin of at least two inches. The width of the letters and figures shall be at least two-thirds of the height, and the width of the stroke shall be at least one-sixth of the height. The letters and numbers must be uniform in shape and size. A space equal to at least one-half of the width of a letter shall be left between each figure or letter." For reference check out Sky Gypsy. The Pavligas did their homework and the markings are true to the regs. in use at the time. Greg Cardinal >>> 03/08 12:46 PM >>> I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that big to the wings? Steve e Provo Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Greg, Thanks for the regs on the numbers. This is the kind of info that makes this group so valuable. Best Regards, Warren . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Remember that some people will just complain "just because they could read your numbers". It looks that some people just love to complain "for the love of it". Saludos Gary Gower >steve(at)byu.edu wrote: >> >> I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint >> my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" >> high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that >> big to the wings? > >Hmm I've been trying to figure out to get large N numbers 'off' my >Tri-pacer. If you fly your piet below 500 feet you want to reconsider! >to me the joy of experimentals is that you get to use small N numbers... >Ktm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Subject: RE: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 09, 1999
>I thought of this and intend to paint only on the top of the wing. Maybe >still not a good idea? > >Steve E. > > Well, only if you dont fly inverted in a low pass over the "complainers" house :-) Saludos Gary Gower ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Wings plans
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Warren, Thanks for the info. Mark Boynton Phoenix, AZ > Not at all. Would suggest that you do get his plans ahead of time though, > as you will be using his plans for the end plate ribs only. He also has a > really great set of plans for fiberglass wing tank, which is also very well > drawn, excellent detail, and color pictures of the various construction steps. > > Warren > . > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: fuselage construction
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Richard, Build man build.... We can wait for the good work you do on the website for later. I build my sides with the sheeting before bringing the two together. I have heard however that others have sheeted after. Even one I know of sheeted one side only, installed his controls, seatbelts, and other stuff before closing the other side. Doesn't seem to matter. Steve E. -----Original Message----- Richard DeCosta Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 5:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction I have cut nearly all the side pieces for my fuselage and am nearly ready to start gluing. One question I had is: At what point do you attatch the large plywood sides that cover the front part? Do you leave it with no gussets while you construct the fuselage box, or do it while its in the jig (one side anyway)? Thanks gang! Richard BTW, I am consructing a new FAQ (frequently asked questions) from all the answers to the questions that fly around this group everytime someone like me has a newbie question. Look for it on my site in a month or two. Would be sooner, but I'm having too much fun building to worry about the website right now... :) == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: virus
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Maybe I am lucky, I am using Cheap Free Juno and it does not allow attachmets to come in, that costs money extra. Gordon > > >I am upset about this virus I have just been infected with. Steve, >can't attachments be blocked from this group? > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: fuselage construction
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Richard- Steve E. is correct.....tain't no right or wrong order to installing gussests or side slabs of plywood to your fuselage. A worksaver though is to leave your plywood firewall to the very end of your project. This was the last piece I glued and nailed to the plane. Fit it up with all of your engine service controls/lines as you go, but save the gluing for last. Without that firewall in place you can install the front controls, rudder pedals, gear fittings, and make varnishing easier- without wreching your back or asking for a second person to help. Now get back to work. :) :))) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: fuselage construction
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Richard; While the first side is in the jig, attach the side gussetts or the plywood siding. Remove that frame from the jig, turn it over then do the same (ply or gussetts) depending whether it the left or right side. When you get that far, turn both sides upside down on a table to begin assembling the "box" portion of the fuselage. I did the front x members/ply then the seat (rear) then pinched the tail together then went back and filled in the rest of the stuff. If you try to do the box without all the gussetts on, you will have some curveature to deal with. Doing it this way lets the sides find their own "set" at the seat on back to the tail. without the ply/gussetts, you will get a fuselage with a series of "jogs" in it that will prevent the nice, smooth curve back to the tail. Just do one side at a time, doesn't matter if it is left side-inside or right side-outside, just keep track on what you are doing. I have known of two people that built two very fine LEFT sides.................. Earl Myers -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 7:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage construction >I have cut nearly all the side pieces for my fuselage and am nearly >ready to start gluing. One question I had is: At what point do you >attatch the large plywood sides that cover the front part? Do you >leave it with no gussets while you construct the fuselage box, or do >it while its in the jig (one side anyway)? > >Thanks gang! >Richard > >BTW, I am consructing a new FAQ (frequently asked questions) from all >the answers to the questions that fly around this group everytime >someone like me has a newbie question. Look for it on my site in a >month or two. Would be sooner, but I'm having too much fun building to >worry about the website right now... :) > > >== >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 09, 1999
here's a trick some dressmakers, sign painters & billboard painters use...lay out your numbers on brown wrapping paper,,borrow your wives pattern transfer wheel and go over all lines giving you a perforated outline,,mask this perforated paper to the wing surface and dust perforations with bag of chalk line powder,,,remove paper from wing surface and you have remaining a dotted outline of numbers to be followed by a steady paint brush. hope this helps... JoeC >Greg, > Thanks for the regs on the numbers. This is the kind of info that makes this group so valuable. >Best Regards, >Warren >. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Richards Piet page
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Hi Guys: Anybody having any luck getting into Richards web page today? Tried at work & home Can't get in. John Duprey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: Richards Piet page
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Sorry folks. I have an al-cheapo server that dies at the drop of a hat. When I become wealthy I'll upgrade. It should be back up in the AM. Cheer. Richard ---John Duprey wrote: > > Hi Guys: Anybody having any luck getting into Richards web page today? > Tried at work & home Can't get in. > > John Duprey > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Richards Piet page
Date: Mar 09, 1999
Working fine for me just now Richard. Warren Richard DeCosta wrote: > Sorry folks. I have an al-cheapo server that dies at the drop of a > hat. When I become wealthy I'll upgrade. It should be back up in the AM. > > Cheer. > Richard > > ---John Duprey wrote: > > > > Hi Guys: Anybody having any luck getting into Richards web page today? > > Tried at work & home Can't get in. > > > > John Duprey > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Phillips
Subject: Re: misc. questions
Date: Mar 08, 2000
Could anyone offer words of wisdom on these items? 1. Steerable tailwheel versus free swiveling . 2. Al. cladding on the firewall and tray behind engine. Some pictures look like this is not a universal practice. 3. How to keep axle from turning if you use brakes on the Jenny style gear. 4. A good source for refurbished or new radiators for the Ford powered Piet. 5. Projects near Kalama, Wa. for possible visitation. Thanks Phil Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: misc. questions
Date: Mar 09, 1999
I have several ideas about anti-rotation devices for Jenny style gear with brakes, but I would also like input from those who have done it before. I acquired a length of 1 1/2 4130 last evening so I guess that decides which gear style. How do you get away from the firewall requirement and why would you want too? J Mc -----Original Message----- From: Phil Phillips Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: misc. questions >Could anyone offer words of wisdom on these items? > >1. Steerable tailwheel versus free swiveling . >2. Al. cladding on the firewall and tray behind engine. Some pictures look >like this is not a universal practice. >3. How to keep axle from turning if you use brakes on the Jenny style gear. >4. A good source for refurbished or new radiators for the Ford powered >Piet. >5. Projects near Kalama, Wa. for possible visitation. > >Thanks > >Phil Phillips > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alan Swanson
Subject: RE: fuselage construction
Date: Mar 09, 1999
In the Pietenpol Manual published by Don Pietenpol there is a section on building the Sky Scout. Bernard recommended laying out each side in the jig, then gluing gussets on that side. Then glue the plywood sides. When each side is done, take the two sides and clamp them together and saw the longerons to eactly the same length. Then take a tri-square and mark off strut stations and a few extra marks to measure alignment accuracy. Next build and install the front bulkhead and front seat back, being very precise in the installation. Then install the floor. When that is all done, pull the tail pieces together and mitre them together. I followed these steps, and it worked great. By the way, this manual was very helpful and interesting. Lots of good tips and history. Well worth the money. It was serial numbered and signed by Don Pietenpol, and included a color picture of Bernard Pietenpol. I believe it is available on the pietenpol family website. It will make a good collector's item when I have finished the plane. Al Swanson Fuselage done, ribs done, working on the metal parts. >Richard, Build man build.... We can wait for the good work you do on the >website for later. I build my sides with the sheeting before bringing the >two together. I have heard however that others have sheeted after. Even >one I know of sheeted one side only, installed his controls, seatbelts, and >other stuff before closing the other side. Doesn't seem to matter. > >Steve E. > >-----Original Message----- >Richard DeCosta >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 5:14 AM >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Subject: fuselage construction > > >I have cut nearly all the side pieces for my fuselage and am nearly >ready to start gluing. One question I had is: At what point do you >attatch the large plywood sides that cover the front part? Do you >leave it with no gussets while you construct the fuselage box, or do >it while its in the jig (one side anyway)? > >Thanks gang! >Richard > >BTW, I am consructing a new FAQ (frequently asked questions) from all >the answers to the questions that fly around this group everytime >someone like me has a newbie question. Look for it on my site in a >month or two. Would be sooner, but I'm having too much fun building to >worry about the website right now... :) > > >== >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon >Baxter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin McDonald <kevin.mcdonald(at)dev.tivoli.com>
Subject: Re: misc. questions
Date: Mar 10, 1999
Phil Phillips wrote: > > Could anyone offer words of wisdom on these items? > > 1. Steerable tailwheel versus free swiveling . Since I'm a low time tailwheel pilot I like my steerable tailwheel - it helps keep me straight in a cross wind. > 2. Al. cladding on the firewall and tray behind engine. > Some pictures look like this is not a universal practice. You mean no fire shield? In a wood plane I'd like all the protection I can get. I have one behind my A-65 but I'm not familiar with the Ford installations. Just my 0.01 cent worth... Ktm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 10, 1999
Greg, Do you have a copy of Aero Bulliten 7? I've been trying to find one for some time without success. Greg Cardinal wrote: > Steve, > This doesn't answer your question regarding how to > apply letters but it does have relevance to aircraft > markings from the late '20's. > > Edited for brevity: > > Air Commerce Regulations, Aeronautics Bulletin # 7, > effective June 1, 1928: > > Places and dimensions of marks. > > "...the top of the letters to be toward the leading edge, > the height to be at least four-fifths of the mean chord; > provided, however, that in the event four-fifths of the mean chord is more than 30 inches, the height of > the letters and figures need not be more but shall not > be less than 30 inches. > In the case of a monoplane the mark shall be displayed on the lower surface of the left wing and > the upper surface of the right wing. > The marks shall also appear on both sides of the rudder, of size as large as the surface will permit, > leaving a margin of at least two inches. > > The width of the letters and figures shall be at least > two-thirds of the height, and the width of the stroke > shall be at least one-sixth of the height. > > The letters and numbers must be uniform in shape > and size. > > A space equal to at least one-half of the width of a > letter shall be left between each figure or letter." > > For reference check out Sky Gypsy. The Pavligas did > their homework and the markings are true to the regs. > in use at the time. > > Greg Cardinal > >>> 03/08 12:46 PM >>> > I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint my > N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" high. any > suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that big to the wings? > > Steve e > Provo > > Steve Eldredge > Steve(at)byu.edu > IT Services > Brigham Young University -- David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 10, 1999
Dave, I don't have a copy of the entire bulletin. I found parts of it printed in the back of an old textbook. The book is "Dyke's Aircraft Engine Instructor". This book was published in the 30's. Good luck finding it. If I were trying to find copies of the Air Commerce Regulations the first place I'd check would be the Library of Congress, next would be the Smithsonian, also, don't overlook local libraries, especially large university libraries. Some libraries are designated Federal Depositories and are required to store govt. printed materials FOREVER!!! The internet is a great place to start. Back to the query about letters, a Pietenpol should have the lettering on the topside of the right wing, the bottom side of the left wing. Letters should be 30" high and 20" wide. The brush stroke should be 5" with 2.5" between figures. Good luck in your search, keep us posted. Greg Cardinal >>> "David B. Schober" 03/10 10:25 AM >>> Greg, Do you have a copy of Aero Bulliten 7? I've been trying to find one for some time without success. Greg Cardinal wrote: > Steve, > This doesn't answer your question regarding how to > apply letters but it does have relevance to aircraft > markings from the late '20's. > > Edited for brevity: > > Air Commerce Regulations, Aeronautics Bulletin # 7, > effective June 1, 1928: > > Places and dimensions of marks. > > "...the top of the letters to be toward the leading edge, > the height to be at least four-fifths of the mean chord; > provided, however, that in the event four-fifths of the mean chord is more than 30 inches, the height of > the letters and figures need not be more but shall not > be less than 30 inches. > In the case of a monoplane the mark shall be displayed on the lower surface of the left wing and > the upper surface of the right wing. > The marks shall also appear on both sides of the rudder, of size as large as the surface will permit, > leaving a margin of at least two inches. > > The width of the letters and figures shall be at least > two-thirds of the height, and the width of the stroke > shall be at least one-sixth of the height. > > The letters and numbers must be uniform in shape > and size. > > A space equal to at least one-half of the width of a > letter shall be left between each figure or letter." > > For reference check out Sky Gypsy. The Pavligas did > their homework and the markings are true to the regs. > in use at the time. > > Greg Cardinal > >>> 03/08 12:46 PM >>> > I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint my > N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" high. any > suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that big to the wings? > > Steve e > Provo > > Steve Eldredge > Steve(at)byu.edu > IT Services > Brigham Young University -- ** David B.Schober, CPE Instructor, Aviation Maintenance Fairmont State College National Aerospace Education Center Rt. 3 Box 13 Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503 (304) 842-8300 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 10, 1999
Could I get anyone on the list who has the time & knowledge to take a look at these pics of an 'A' engine I am looking at buying? http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic1.jpg http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic2.jpg http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic3.jpg The guy opened it for me and says there are no cracks to be found, and very little wear on all parts. I am not an expert, so I could use a second opinion. Also, is $350 a good price fo this engine? Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
Subject: cont. 65 ground power unit
Date: Mar 10, 1999
Hello, I would like to ask if anyone has had experience using the continental 65 from a WWII surplus ground pwer unit. We found a vey affordable one and all looks very good. I have head the front bearing might not be the same as on an aircraft. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you Mike Johnston Plainview mn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Seibert
Subject: Re: cont. 65 ground power unit
Date: Mar 11, 1999
I have never seen one but I have heard that the Continental GPU's had a cast iron crankshaft. If the engine is assembled, there is probably no way to tell by visual inspection. There is no reason why a cast iron crank can't be used, its just not going to be quite as strong as a forged steel one. Good luck, Bob Seibert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: cont. 65 ground power unit
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Thanks Bob, We have the case apart and everything mics out to within factory specs. One question I do have is about the front bearing. And I have a few mechanics I can ask about the cast crankshaft. Thanks again Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wkoucky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
<< I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have also tried "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects that used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir sticks (pine scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as proof of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the bond between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system when my T 88 runs out. John Mc >> I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy for years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now building my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many users develope ________________________________________________________________________________
From: duprey(at)excite.com
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
I have used the west Epoxy on Boat building projects, and am impressed . It does a great job & is easy to work with. It is pricey but good. I am currently using T-88 and might consider switching. I will check out the web site. John Duprey > > << > I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have also > tried > "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the > Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects that > used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir sticks > (pine > scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as > proof > of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the bond > between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system > when my T 88 runs out. > John Mc > >> > I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy for > years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now building > my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many users > develope ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves.=A0 I am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a memorable one and also champion our cause.=A0 The hat will natural kakhi with dark fore= st green embroidery.=A0 If I can get enough interest I'll get a group discount= and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each.=A0 These are high quality hats.= =A0 Check out my web site for the graphic.=A0 for another $2 they will add text acr= oss the back that says "Low and Slow for 70 Years"=A0 So if your interested l= et me know how many. =A0 =A0 Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University =A0 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
The only problem I have with West System Epoxies is that it is quite thin. This makes it kid of poor for gap filling and gussets around the edges of the glue joints. However, this also allows it to soak into the wood quite a bit making for these inredibly strong joints. It's mainly an astetic thing. It looks like there is insuffecient around the edges of the joint despite the fact it's strong enough. Ken On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote: > > << > I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have also > tried > "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the > Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects that > used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir sticks > (pine > scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as > proof > of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the bond > between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system > when my T 88 runs out. > John Mc > >> > I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy for > years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now building > my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many users > develope > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Let me know how it works out...would be great to cover my bald spot with a Piet! Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Steve, The hat looks great! Put me down for three of them....no I don't have three heads, but I'll give the extras to friends. See you at Broadhead. Don Cooley, Ercoupe N3571H, Piet a-buildin'. Fairfield, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I > am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I > am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a > memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi > with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll > get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. > These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. > for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and > Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. > > > Steve Eldredge > Steve(at)byu.edu > IT Services > Brigham Young University > Steve look great to me, save me one, I like the low and slow on the back idea! John Duprey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Ken, try mixing in a bit of fberglass chop, you can make the mix any consistency you want up to peanut butter. the bost guys stick plywood together at ninety degrees. They mask the glue area off with masking tape lay on a good bead of the mix and fillet it out with a tongue depressor. The excess is scrapped off. The joints I have made this way always break in the plysheet and not in the epoxy bond. J Mc -----Original Message----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 11:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glues, epoxies. >The only problem I have with West System Epoxies is that it is quite thin. >This makes it kid of poor for gap filling and gussets around the edges of >the glue joints. However, this also allows it to soak into the wood quite >a bit making for these inredibly strong joints. It's mainly an astetic >thing. It looks like there is insuffecient around the edges of the joint >despite the fact it's strong enough. > >Ken > >On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote: > >> >> << >> I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have also >> tried >> "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the >> Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects that >> used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir sticks >> (pine >> scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as >> proof >> of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the bond >> between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system >> when my T 88 runs out. >> John Mc >> >> >> I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy for >> years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now building >> my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many users >> develope >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Subject: Re: Virus
Date: Mar 11, 1999
John Duprey wrote: > > Hi Guys: Happy99 is a virus, the others are right DO NOT OPEN! It fried > some computers at my office. > > John Duprey John I don't know how the computers at your work got fried but it could not have been "Happy99" as this virus only copys your wsock32.dll file to a file called wsock32.ska and attachs itself to your out going mail. this virus doesnot cause any other damage to your computer except to the aformentioned file.It' sole pupose is to plug up servers by virtue of high volume mail.If you have not opened it simply delete it. If you have opened it, go to http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2208275,00.html print out the sheets and follow the instructions there clear and easy. Wyne Tokarz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Subject: Re: Painting big numbers
Date: Mar 11, 1999
steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > I have got my plane almost ready for spring, but I still want to paint > my N-number in large letters on the wing. I want to go about 24" > high. any suggestions about how to mask and transfer something that > big to the wings? > > Steve e > Provo > > Steve Eldredge > Steve(at)byu.edu > IT Services > Brigham Young University > Hi Steve, I can help you in one of two ways; 1: I can provide you with custom made vinyl numbers in virtually any color you want or, 2: I can supply you with vinyl paint masks, you simply stick them on the wing and paint away. Peel them off and perfect numbers with no bleed-under. Call me at 780-594-0418 , email at ktokarz(at)incenre.net or here at the piet group. Wayne Tokarz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Les Lampman <lblampman(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Steve, I'm new to the list. Hiding in the background trying to learn all I can about the Piets. Even tho I'm not building yet I'd like to go for a hat. Maybe get me motivated if I look in the mirror and see an airplane there! I'd also like to look at the web site you mentioned but I don't have the URL. Mind posting that? Thanks much and am enjoying the discussions so far. Les Lampman Oak Harbor, Whidbey Island, WA -----Original Message----- steve(at)byu.edu Sent: Thursday, March 11, 1999 9:13 AM To: Pietenpol Discussion Subject: Piet hats. I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 11, 1999
Hi, Want to sign me up for a hat too? Thanks Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
TWO FOR EARL & KATHI MYERS ! -----Original Message----- From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 7:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet hats. >steve(at)byu.edu wrote: >> >> I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I >> am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I >> am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a >> memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi >> with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll >> get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. >> These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. >> for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and >> Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. >> >> >> Steve Eldredge >> Steve(at)byu.edu >> IT Services >> Brigham Young University >> > >Steve look great to me, save me one, I like the low and slow on the back >idea! > >John Duprey > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: new videos
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Two new videos on my site: http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/Videos.shtml These were captured from Mike Cuy's Piet Construction video. For those of you who are serious about Piets, this video is well worth the $20! I have only 2 clips from it on my site right now, but there are many more to come; the tape is nearly two full hours. Everything from Flying with Mike, to construction shots, to a full walkaround of his ship, etc... Enough of my feverish ranting. Enjoy the videos. Richard == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Richard; I have 3 Piet (ford) engines. I paid $200-$400 each for them. They were nowhere near the APPEARENCE of the one depicted below. None of these had any of the accessories either. If this engine at least turns over by hand (mine did) and there are no visible cracks cyl to cyl or exhaust valve to cyl that you can see, i would take it if it were me. You still are taking a chance on the thing being rebuildable. None of mine had the accessories nor heads. You could sell all those extras at a swap meet and at LEAST break even.Go for it and hold your breath a bit........the engine I used in my Piet (yet to be converted) cost $1,000. It was recently rebuilt with 5oo miles on it for break-in then removed from the car and replaced with the original engine.This had only the head and complete block. I had to buy all the extras (carb, intake, alum head, H2o pump on so on. I bought a racing Model T H2o pump by the way...long thin tube with impellors mounted down low. I also bought a new, stainless, lifetime stock pump as a back up. All my "A" parts came from Snyder's here in Ohio, good company to deal with....knowledgeable and they do speak "Piet" as the manager is building one. Earl -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 6:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: An 'A' I'm looking at >Could I get anyone on the list who has the time & knowledge to take a >look at these pics of an 'A' engine I am looking at buying? > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic1.jpg >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic2.jpg >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic3.jpg > >The guy opened it for me and says there are no cracks to be found, and >very little wear on all parts. I am not an expert, so I could use a >second opinion. > >Also, is $350 a good price fo this engine? > >Richard > > >== >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 12, 1999
I suppose then, that if I found one for $300 that is RUNNING now... (I did find one like that!). I should grab it? The only prob is its in California and Im in Maine, making shipping almost $300 as well. Unless I can find a REAL cheap way to get it here. ---Earl Myers wrote: > > Richard; > I have 3 Piet (ford) engines. I paid $200-$400 each for them. They were > nowhere near the APPEARENCE of the one depicted below. None of these had any > of the accessories either. If this engine at least turns over by hand (mine > did) and there are no visible cracks cyl to cyl or exhaust valve to cyl that > you can see, i would take it if it were me. You still are taking a chance on > the thing being rebuildable. None of mine had the accessories nor heads. You > could sell all those extras at a swap meet and at LEAST break even.Go for it > and hold your breath a bit........the engine I used in my Piet (yet to be > converted) cost $1,000. It was recently rebuilt with 5oo miles on it for > break-in then removed from the car and replaced with the original > engine.This had only the head and complete block. I had to buy all the > extras (carb, intake, alum head, H2o pump on so on. I bought a racing Model > T H2o pump by the way...long thin tube with impellors mounted down low. I > also bought a new, stainless, lifetime stock pump as a back up. All my "A" > parts came from Snyder's here in Ohio, good company to deal > with....knowledgeable and they do speak "Piet" as the manager is building > one. > Earl > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard DeCosta > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 6:04 PM > Subject: An 'A' I'm looking at > > > >Could I get anyone on the list who has the time & knowledge to take a > >look at these pics of an 'A' engine I am looking at buying? > > > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic1.jpg > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic2.jpg > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic3.jpg > > > >The guy opened it for me and says there are no cracks to be found, and > >very little wear on all parts. I am not an expert, so I could use a > >second opinion. > > > >Also, is $350 a good price fo this engine? > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > >== > >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon > Baxter > > > > > > > > > > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Hi SteveE===sounds like a plan to me,,,put me down for 3 caps...since I passed that 60 plus barrier last year the "LO N SLO" is looking good to me. regards JoeC Zion, Ill steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I > am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I > am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a > memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi > with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll > get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. > These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. > for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and > Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. Steve > EldredgeSteve(at)byu.eduIT ServicesBrigham Young University Hi SteveE===sounds like a plan to me,,,put me down for 3 caps...since I passed that 60 plus barrier last year the "LO N SLO" is looking good to me. regards JoeC Zion, Ill steve(at)byu.edu wrote: I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many.Steve EldredgeSteve(at)byu.eduIT ServicesBrigham Young University ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Ken; What didn't you like about T-88? Earl Myers -----Original Message----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 1:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glues, epoxies. >The only problem I have with West System Epoxies is that it is quite thin. >This makes it kid of poor for gap filling and gussets around the edges of >the glue joints. However, this also allows it to soak into the wood quite >a bit making for these inredibly strong joints. It's mainly an astetic >thing. It looks like there is insuffecient around the edges of the joint >despite the fact it's strong enough. > >Ken > >On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote: > >> >> << >> I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have also >> tried >> "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the >> Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects that >> used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir sticks >> (pine >> scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as >> proof >> of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the bond >> between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system >> when my T 88 runs out. >> John Mc >> >> >> I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy for >> years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now building >> my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many users >> develope >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Actually, I have used both cotton flox and micro baloons as a thickening agent. The micro baloons make a nice, sandable filler and the flox is used where I need more strength. I learned all this when building the fiberglass fuel tanks. Unfortunately, adding this decreases the simplicity of the West System epoxies and maked the T-88 more attractive. For structural joints, I think it's a better product as it will nicely gap small inperfections in the wood without compromising the glue strength with a filler material. However, for laminating, large surfaces, West System is the better choice. Ken On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, John McNarry wrote: > Ken, try mixing in a bit of fberglass chop, you can make the mix any > consistency you want up to peanut butter. the bost guys stick plywood > together at ninety degrees. They mask the glue area off with masking tape > lay on a good bead of the mix and fillet it out with a tongue depressor. > The excess is scrapped off. The joints I have made this way always break in > the plysheet and not in the epoxy bond. > > J Mc > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 11:29 AM > Subject: Re: glues, epoxies. > > > >The only problem I have with West System Epoxies is that it is quite thin. > >This makes it kid of poor for gap filling and gussets around the edges of > >the glue joints. However, this also allows it to soak into the wood quite > >a bit making for these inredibly strong joints. It's mainly an astetic > >thing. It looks like there is insuffecient around the edges of the joint > >despite the fact it's strong enough. > > > >Ken > > > >On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote: > > > >> > >> << > >> I have been using T 88 for the fuselage. For a different project have > also > >> tried > >> "West System Epoxy" made for the wood boat building industries by the > >> Gougeon Bros. Their website (www.westsystem.com) has a list of projects > that > >> used their epoxies. It includes numerous aircraft. I left the stir > sticks > >> (pine > >> scraps) in the plastic mixing cups and kept the batch cups and sticks as > >> proof > >> of cure. the stuff is amazing and in no case was I able to break the > bond > >> between the wood and epoxy. I'm considering switching to the West system > >> when my T 88 runs out. > >> John Mc > >> >> > >> I am building my plane using the gougeon epoxy. I have used their epoxy > for > >> years. I built an ice boat, restored a wooden sailboat and I am now > building > >> my plane with it. It is good stuff. Be careful of exposure as many > users > >> develope > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Is this the same engine as in the photos (afetr it was removed)? One that is running is much better that one that isn't assuming all else is OK.......You might want to look into the CA engine. If it "sounds" good, swallow the freight and go for it. It is a better place to start I guess. The blocks I mentioned were found outside behind garages.............still don't know if they can be rebuilt but the extra parts paid for the cost of buying them (clutches, bellhousings, etc) -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 10:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at >I suppose then, that if I found one for $300 that is RUNNING now... (I >did find one like that!). I should grab it? The only prob is its in >California and Im in Maine, making shipping almost $300 as well. >Unless I can find a REAL cheap way to get it here. > > >---Earl Myers wrote: >> >> Richard; >> I have 3 Piet (ford) engines. I paid $200-$400 each for them. They >were >> nowhere near the APPEARENCE of the one depicted below. None of these >had any >> of the accessories either. If this engine at least turns over by >hand (mine >> did) and there are no visible cracks cyl to cyl or exhaust valve to >cyl that >> you can see, i would take it if it were me. You still are taking a >chance on >> the thing being rebuildable. None of mine had the accessories nor >heads. You >> could sell all those extras at a swap meet and at LEAST break >even.Go for it >> and hold your breath a bit........the engine I used in my Piet (yet >to be >> converted) cost $1,000. It was recently rebuilt with 5oo miles on it >for >> break-in then removed from the car and replaced with the original >> engine.This had only the head and complete block. I had to buy all the >> extras (carb, intake, alum head, H2o pump on so on. I bought a >racing Model >> T H2o pump by the way...long thin tube with impellors mounted down >low. I >> also bought a new, stainless, lifetime stock pump as a back up. All >my "A" >> parts came from Snyder's here in Ohio, good company to deal >> with....knowledgeable and they do speak "Piet" as the manager is >building >> one. >> Earl >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard DeCosta >> To: Pietenpol Discussion >> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 6:04 PM >> Subject: An 'A' I'm looking at >> >> >> >Could I get anyone on the list who has the time & knowledge to take a >> >look at these pics of an 'A' engine I am looking at buying? >> > >> >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic1.jpg >> >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic2.jpg >> >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic3.jpg >> > >> >The guy opened it for me and says there are no cracks to be found, >and >> >very little wear on all parts. I am not an expert, so I could use a >> >second opinion. >> > >> >Also, is $350 a good price fo this engine? >> > >> >Richard >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >== >> >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >> >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >> >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 >> > >> >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." >-Gordon >> Baxter >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >== >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Piet Hats
Date: Mar 12, 1999
You might try Amsterdam for a supplier on your hats. 1-800-833-6231 They send me catalogs all the time for Promotional stuff. Embroidered hats 5.99 ea. for 24 24 Hats 143.76 + 50.00 = 193.76 / 24 hats = 8.07 each One time Embroidered Charge is 50.00 but no charge on repeat orders. Free on 144 units. Printed hats are 2.99 each with a one time screen charge of 35.00 They also have all that other stuff, Cups, shirts, pencils, pens etc. Gordon __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Nothing, really. The West System with the pump system is just really convenient to mix. One pump of resign and one of hardener and you're all set. I still use T-88 for structural joints. The reason I tested the West System stuff for it's adhesive properties is because I still have a gallon kit in the basement left over from the canoe I built last winter and I had run out of T-88. Ken. On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Earl Myers wrote: > Ken; > What didn't you like about T-88? > Earl Myers > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Thursday, March 11, 1999 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: glues, epoxies. > > > >The only problem I have with West System Epoxies is that it is quite thin. > >This makes it kid of poor for gap filling and gussets around the edges of > >the glue joints. However, this also allows it to soak into the wood quite > >a bit making for these inredibly strong joints. It's mainly an astetic > >thing. It looks like there is insuffecient around the edges of the joint > >despite the fact it's strong enough. > > > >Ken > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: Piet Hats
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Gordon, thanks for the lead! I called them and did an apples to apples comparison and here is what I found. there 5.99 special is a cheaper cotton cap with one color >7000 stiches plus a $25 digitizing fee for the art work. Not to bad for a cheap cap I asked them to quote my what I wanted and it was almost $17 per cap with a minimum order of 48. UGGH. I want these to be first class caps. They are sending their catalog anyway though. Steve e ________________________________________________________________________________
From: arkiesacres(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Piet Hats
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Well it was an idea anyway. They have a rather large catalog I keep getting once a year even though I told them three yrs ago I am not in business anymore. Still have a few hundred pencils and pens but heck they send me free pens and calanders every year trying to get me to reorder. Your right, Only the best for the Piet Builders and Flyers. Gordon >Gordon, thanks for the lead! I called them and did an apples to apples >comparison and here is what I found. > > >there 5.99 special is a cheaper cotton cap with one color >7000 >stiches plus >a $25 digitizing fee for the art work. Not to bad for a cheap cap > >I asked them to quote my what I wanted and it was almost $17 per cap >with a >minimum order of 48. UGGH. I want these to be first class caps. > > >They are sending their catalog anyway though. > >Steve e > __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com>
Subject: Re: new videos
Date: Mar 12, 1999
>Two new videos on my site: >http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/Videos.shtml > >These were captured from Mike Cuy's Piet Construction video. For those >of you who are serious about Piets, this video is well worth the $20! How do I order this video?? Thanks, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brent Reed
Subject: Re: new videos
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Richard, Is there not supposed to be any sound on those videos you just added? Brent Reed -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 12:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: new videos >>Two new videos on my site: >>http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/Videos.shtml >> >>These were captured from Mike Cuy's Piet Construction video. For those >>of you who are serious about Piets, this video is well worth the $20! > >How do I order this video?? > >Thanks, Glenn > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: glues, epoxies.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Ken, Gee, thats odd. I have a gallon or so of Raka epoxy left over from my canoe and was wondering about using it. I used silica as a filler when I needed a little more thickness on the canoe (16' Prospector from Canoecraft). I didn't trust the pumps for measuring. Every bit that went on the boat was measured in plastic measuring cups. Where is the cheapest place to buy some T88? My check to Western Aircraft will go out on Monday or Tuesday. I am going to get all of the spruce in one shot - $1578 US + shipping. Jean warned me about using US made birch plywood and advised either Finland birch or mahogany. What are the general thoughts on this? Where is the best place to buy from? Dave Soon to be building.... >Nothing, really. The West System with the pump system is just really >convenient to mix. One pump of resign and one of hardener and you're all >set. I still use T-88 for structural joints. The reason I tested the West >System stuff for it's adhesive properties is because I still have a gallon >kit in the basement left over from the canoe I built last winter and I had >run out of T-88. > >Ken. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: The Endicotts <rasala(at)brutus.bright.net>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I > am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I > am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a > memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi > with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll > get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. > These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. > for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and > Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. > > > Steve Eldredge > Steve(at)byu.edu > IT Services > Brigham Young University > Please put me down for one. thanks, Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: new videos
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Right, there is no sound. I decided not to put sound on some to save download time (it almost doubles the size of files!) Richard ---Brent Reed wrote: > > Richard, > > Is there not supposed to be any sound on those videos you just added? > > Brent Reed > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 12:01 PM > Subject: Re: new videos > > > >>Two new videos on my site: > >>http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/Videos.shtml > >> > >>These were captured from Mike Cuy's Piet Construction video. For those > >>of you who are serious about Piets, this video is well worth the $20! > > > >How do I order this video?? > > > >Thanks, Glenn > > > > > > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Richard, Can you find someone who can measure the cylinders of the one you have photo's of? Bore size will tell you if it can be rebored again. I wouldn't advise reusing the pistons as the ring lands will likely be worn. If you can turn it over and have a dial indicator resting on the valves you can get a very good idea of the camshafts wear. (I have the specs buried on my desk somewhere) For now just see that all the ex valves have the same lift and that all the intakes are the same as well. Valve clearance will change this a bit, you can measure it and add it to be more accurate. The camshaft is the key to a good performing model A as breathing is their weakness. The condition of the crank and babbit is not really relevant, nor is the bore, other than if it already bored out too far. The "Short block" is really all you are looking for. I would suggest that you grab the one you have close by and try to sell off all the stuff you don't need. I wouldn't feel safe just buying an engine of that age putting on the aluminum head and doing the other conversions without doing a thourough rebuild.The fibre cam gears are prone to failure and the babbit job may be questionable even on the running engine. The rebuild to like new on a model A will still be cheaper than the same work done on an aircraft engine. Save the cross continent frieght and put the funds into good quality new parts. Check out the BPA website there are a few good pic's of engines and some even using small block "chevy" pistons. John Mc -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 8:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at >I suppose then, that if I found one for $300 that is RUNNING now... (I >did find one like that!). I should grab it? The only prob is its in >California and Im in Maine, making shipping almost $300 as well. >Unless I can find a REAL cheap way to get it here. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.J.H." <ve6zh(at)cnnet.com>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
I will take a hat as well.. Doug. > From: The Endicotts <rasala(at)brutus.bright.net> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Subject: Re: Piet hats. > Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 3:52 PM > > steve(at)byu.edu wrote: > > > > I have designed a baseball type hat that has a Piet logo on it and I > > am wondering if anyone would be interested in some for themselves. I > > am trying to make this years trip back to Brodhead and Oshkosh a > > memorable one and also champion our cause. The hat will natural kakhi > > with dark forest green embroidery. If I can get enough interest I'll > > get a group discount and have them done in a lot for $14-15 each. > > These are high quality hats. Check out my web site for the graphic. > > for another $2 they will add text across the back that says "Low and > > Slow for 70 Years" So if your interested let me know how many. > > > > > > Steve Eldredge > > Steve(at)byu.edu > > IT Services > > Brigham Young University > > > Please put me down for one. > thanks, Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Finland Birch Plywood
Date: Mar 12, 1999
These guys are close to me and have a huge warehouse of wonderful stuff. I got some of the most beautiful finland birch plywood you can imagine here. Go to http://www.aitwood.com and check out both the Finland Birch Plywood and the Ultrathin sections. Also got some of their Australian Hoop Pine for the leading edges. Until you handle this stuff, it is hard to believe how flexible it is. Good luck Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Subject: Re: An 'A' I'm looking at
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Richard DeCosta wrote: > > I suppose then, that if I found one for $300 that is RUNNING now... (I > did find one like that!). I should grab it? The only prob is its in > California and Im in Maine, making shipping almost $300 as well. > Unless I can find a REAL cheap way to get it here. > > ---Earl Myers wrote: > > > > Richard; > > I have 3 Piet (ford) engines. I paid $200-$400 each for them. They > were > > nowhere near the APPEARENCE of the one depicted below. None of these > had any > > of the accessories either. If this engine at least turns over by > hand (mine > > did) and there are no visible cracks cyl to cyl or exhaust valve to > cyl that > > you can see, i would take it if it were me. You still are taking a > chance on > > the thing being rebuildable. None of mine had the accessories nor > heads. You > > could sell all those extras at a swap meet and at LEAST break > even.Go for it > > and hold your breath a bit........the engine I used in my Piet (yet > to be > > converted) cost $1,000. It was recently rebuilt with 5oo miles on it > for > > break-in then removed from the car and replaced with the original > > engine.This had only the head and complete block. I had to buy all the > > extras (carb, intake, alum head, H2o pump on so on. I bought a > racing Model > > T H2o pump by the way...long thin tube with impellors mounted down > low. I > > also bought a new, stainless, lifetime stock pump as a back up. All > my "A" > > parts came from Snyder's here in Ohio, good company to deal > > with....knowledgeable and they do speak "Piet" as the manager is > building > > one. > > Earl > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard DeCosta > > To: Pietenpol Discussion > > Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 6:04 PM > > Subject: An 'A' I'm looking at > > > > > > >Could I get anyone on the list who has the time & knowledge to take a > > >look at these pics of an 'A' engine I am looking at buying? > > > > > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic1.jpg > > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic2.jpg > > >http://207.140.1.5/99/ModelAEnginePic3.jpg > > > > > >The guy opened it for me and says there are no cracks to be found, > and > > >very little wear on all parts. I am not an expert, so I could use a > > >second opinion. > > > > > >Also, is $350 a good price fo this engine? > > > > > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >== > > >http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > > >Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > > >http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > > > > >"Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." > -Gordon > > Baxter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > There is one way. It's called the backhaul. Call some private trucking company and find out if they are hauling to california and coming back empty or lightly loaded. Often they will help you for $50 or some liquid barter. Wayne Tokarz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 12, 1999
Steve, I'd like a Pietenpol hat, too. When you have a price, I'll send a money order to cover cost and shipping. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) Steve, I'd like a Pietenpol hat, too. When you have a price, I'll send a money order to cover cost and shipping. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Steve Can you post the URL for your site again, My bookmarks were reset (vast low wing conspiracy) and I do not have your locale. Thanks Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: An 'A' engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Warren; You seem smarter than the average bear, Are the internals much different on an "A" engine compared to an "8N" tractor motor? I have read there are almost interchangeable and the tractor motor is sleeved so it can be rebuilt more often. They definitely seem to have the same DNA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: An 'A' engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Bill, I think you are on the right track here. From my reading, these 8N tractor engines are still supporting most of the rural farm equipment in Russian, where Henry built a complete plant in the 20's. Also, so many were built here, that between the tractor and the "A", there really are a bunch of useable engines around, IF, you contact the local "A" club. The performance of this engine seems to be seriously improved if the head is carefully worked over, with the major mind set that any engine is really an air pump, so get it to breath in and out in a balanced fashion and you have a winner. Grant's BPA webpage has a great review on various head and carb modifications. However, you quickly upset the traditionalists when you port and polish, put in decent valves and small block chevy pistons and match the cfm to a good carb....of course you then turn a 40 hp air pump into an 70-85 hp air pump...at the same rpm. What my progressive research led me personally to, was that what I was looking to "improve" had already been done. Take a close look at the original Jeep engine and the 151 Chevy engine. By the time you do the head, valves, pistons, real bearings and match the CFM to a good carb for air flow balance, you have a great modern and efficient engine and your pocket book is quite a bit lighter. I ended up choosing a sleeved all aluminum Geo Metro 4 cylinder on the long fuselage variation. For me, this really is an progressive educational experience. The Piet is my first "real" plane project, and I intend to build at least one more plane, so I am looking at a wide variety of applications to learn on the Piet. It is such a stout, basic, traditional and lovely old bird. Buttered popcorn or plain sir, and enjoy the movie! Best Regards, Warren Bill Talbert wrote: > Warren; > > You seem smarter than the average bear, Are the internals > much different on an "A" engine compared to an "8N" tractor > motor? I have read there are almost interchangeable and the > tractor motor is sleeved so it can be rebuilt more often. > They definitely seem to have the same DNA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: An 'A' engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Warren The 8N motor is way to heavy for flight, what I was thinking is using the "A" block bored for sleeves and bushings and getting away from the babbit. As far as the purists, I bet they are not using vintage gas or plugs, so where do you draw the line?. My hope is to do as you suggest, get more power from the ford. thanks for the quick response Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: An 'A' engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Bill, With good machine shop work, I think that you will have a great power plant. Bored, balanced, polished and flow matched, with today's fuel and ignition, you should see 70 hp without any stress or strain. I have seen one that dynoed out at 106 hp at 2250 rpm! The actual compression of the old "A" was often only 4 or 5 to one so that it could run on the fuels of the day. If you build in even a 7 or 8 to one and maintain it on a leak down test, you will do very well. You may want to consider some type of bolt on harmonic balancer, and these old beauties will run forever, and their sound is just good for the soul! Good luck. Warren Bill Talbert wrote: > Warren > > The 8N motor is way to heavy for flight, what I was thinking > is using the "A" block bored for sleeves and bushings and > getting away from the babbit. As far as the purists, I bet > they are not using vintage gas or plugs, so where do you > draw the line?. My hope is to do as you suggest, get more > power from the ford. > > thanks for the quick response > Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Bill, You might find it interesting to check with these guys. They are not cheap, but they make some of the prettiest brass radiators in the world for the old car guys. The Brassworks: handcrafted radiators 289 Prado Road, San Luis Obispo, Ca. 1-800-342-6759 Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Sir; This is where I got my radiator done for my Piet Scout. The workmanship is second to none! They do know what they are doing. The brass had NO heat warpage or heat discoloration. My radiator was custom built with an internal overflow tube, painted black on the (modern, effiecient) fins and is 11" wide, 5" thick. I had them supply the moto-meter, drain cock, etc., "ready to run" so to speak.....with shipping, it cost just under a (ouch) $1,000........ I did this because of all the brass on it. I wanted it to be "flawless" (wish my Scout was). This radiator will take your breath away as far as radiators go, so will the cost. I looked at several $250-500 typical radiators............yuck on the final appearence (to me). There is a Piet builder locally that has an extra (new) inexpensive radiator. I can check to see if he still has it. It is the fella with the Funk "B" engine and wood struts......... -----Original Message----- From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: An "A" engine >Bill, > You might find it interesting to check with these guys. They are >not cheap, but they make some of the prettiest brass radiators in the >world for the old car guys. > The Brassworks: handcrafted radiators > 289 Prado Road, San Luis Obispo, Ca. 1-800-342-6759 >Warren > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Hey, All! Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) struts? I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any info. Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Earl, Flawless is the word for the work that I have seen from them. Went up to their shop and everything that they put out is made to exacting standards by real craftsmen. Thought their prices were painful too, but boy are these things beautiful and they are made hell for stout and for real world use. Congratulations. Warren Earl Myers wrote: > Sir; > This is where I got my radiator done for my Piet Scout. The workmanship is > second to none! They do know what they are doing. The brass had NO heat > warpage or heat discoloration. My radiator was custom built with an internal > overflow tube, painted black on the (modern, effiecient) fins and is 11" > wide, 5" thick. I had them supply the moto-meter, drain cock, etc., "ready > to run" so to speak.....with shipping, it cost just under a (ouch) > $1,000........ > I did this because of all the brass on it. I wanted it to be "flawless" > (wish my Scout was). This radiator will take your breath away as far as > radiators go, so will the cost. I looked at several $250-500 typical > radiators............yuck on the final appearence (to me). There is a Piet > builder locally that has an extra (new) inexpensive radiator. I can check to > see if he still has it. It is the fella with the Funk "B" engine and wood > struts......... > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:46 PM > Subject: An "A" engine > > >Bill, > > You might find it interesting to check with these guys. They are > >not cheap, but they make some of the prettiest brass radiators in the > >world for the old car guys. > > The Brassworks: handcrafted radiators > > 289 Prado Road, San Luis Obispo, Ca. 1-800-342-6759 > >Warren > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wood Struts
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Grant has a page with a cross section of this wooden strut on the BPA webpage. Am presently playing with something similar with a fiberglass wrap and wetted out clear so the wood shows and same for the wood landing gear. There was going to be some follow-up information on this at some time from Grant. Maybe this discussion will bring it forth? Warren ADonJr(at)aol.com wrote: > Hey, All! > Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) struts? > I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of > wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his > plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any > info. > Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
I have seen Wilburs aircraft and have thought about the wood struts ever since. Has anyone used wood pieces 1/2 airfoil shaped clamped to a steel strap running the length of the strut? The wood would hold the strap straight and carry the compressive loads and the steel strap in tension would be very strong. In regards to A's and 8Ns. The A has a larger displacement and is much lighter. I sawed a scrap A block through the ports to see how much the ports could be opened up. I will photo the parts and scan them in if anyone is interested. Breathing on an A is the most efficent way to more horsepower provided the engine is properly rebuilt. Sleeving an A block is possible only as a dry repair sleeve. If you look carefuly at the lefthand side you can see the cylinders below the water jacket. Wet sleeves are out. John Mc -----Original Message----- From: ADonJr(at)aol.com Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: An "A" engine >Hey, All! >Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) struts? >I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of >wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his >plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any >info. >Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
John Gary Price at Yesterdays Wings has used a wood encased square tube strut. Richard's webpage has some pictures of the finished plane, but not the detail. Looks pretty good, and sound too. Good to hear from someone who has opened up the "A" to see what is there. Thanks also for the info on the 8N as I have never taken the time to do a close comparison. Warren John McNarry wrote: > I have seen Wilburs aircraft and have thought about the wood struts ever > since. Has anyone used wood pieces 1/2 airfoil shaped clamped to a steel > strap running the length of the strut? The wood would hold the strap > straight and carry the compressive loads and the steel strap in tension > would be very strong. > > In regards to A's and 8Ns. The A has a larger displacement and is much > lighter. > I sawed a scrap A block through the ports to see how much the ports could > be opened up. I will photo the parts and scan them in if anyone is > interested. Breathing on an A is the most efficent way to more horsepower > provided the engine is properly rebuilt. Sleeving an A block is possible > only as a dry repair sleeve. If you look carefuly at the lefthand side you > can see the cylinders below the water jacket. Wet sleeves are out. > > John Mc > -----Original Message----- > From: ADonJr(at)aol.com > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:19 PM > Subject: Re: An "A" engine > > >Hey, All! > >Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) > struts? > >I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of > >wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his > >plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any > >info. > >Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Warren Is right Gary's wood coverd steel struts are strong and very good looking. I plan to go have another look at Gary's piet within a month or so, I will post a detail photo after that. John Duprey Warren Shoun wrote: > > John > Gary Price at Yesterdays Wings has used a wood encased square tube strut. > Richard's webpage has some pictures of the finished plane, but not the detail. > Looks pretty good, and sound too. > Good to hear from someone who has opened up the "A" to see what is there. > Thanks also for the info on the 8N as I have never taken the time to do a close > comparison. > Warren > > John McNarry wrote: > > > I have seen Wilburs aircraft and have thought about the wood struts ever > > since. Has anyone used wood pieces 1/2 airfoil shaped clamped to a steel > > strap running the length of the strut? The wood would hold the strap > > straight and carry the compressive loads and the steel strap in tension > > would be very strong. > > > > In regards to A's and 8Ns. The A has a larger displacement and is much > > lighter. > > I sawed a scrap A block through the ports to see how much the ports could > > be opened up. I will photo the parts and scan them in if anyone is > > interested. Breathing on an A is the most efficent way to more horsepower > > provided the engine is properly rebuilt. Sleeving an A block is possible > > only as a dry repair sleeve. If you look carefuly at the lefthand side you > > can see the cylinders below the water jacket. Wet sleeves are out. > > > > John Mc > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ADonJr(at)aol.com > > To: Pietenpol Discussion > > Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 12:19 PM > > Subject: Re: An "A" engine > > > > >Hey, All! > > >Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) > > struts? > > >I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of > > >wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his > > >plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any > > >info. > > >Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Steve: Please put me down for 3 Piet caps. Thanks! CJ Beck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Hinchman <mikehi(at)molalla.net>
Subject: A word of caution about engines in general
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Folks, Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought I saw a message from someone interested in buying a running "A" engine. Please be aware that something like this may indeed be running, but you don't really know how good the engine is until you check it out with measuring tools. Even then you may not know, unless you are really engine-knowledgeable and plan to look at the overhaul parts list and machine-shop receipts that the seller SHOULD be able to supply you with. Obviously, you can decide (or not) to trust that what the guy tells you about it is true, but please be careful of buying a running "A" engine and just bolting it to your Piet. Something this old has probably been overhauled many times, but how good was the last one? Remember that our parents' generation were young and working in the factories when these engines were originally made. Just my cautious two-cents worth. The "A" is a fine engine, but there's no substitute for close, knowledgeable scrutiny, when it comes to flying airplanes or spending money! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Re: A word of caution about engines in general
Date: Mar 13, 1999
No doubt! I was the one looking at the running engine. I have no intention of just bolting it to my Piet. :) Can't imagine! I am going to totally rebuild ANY engine I get. I just figured one that is running is bound to be a better candidate for rebuld than one that is not. I am going to pop the head off and take my measurements of the engine I buy, for sure. Thanks for the advice tho. Richard A very careful, bordering on paranoid, builder. ---Michael Hinchman wrote: > > Folks, > > Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought I saw a message from someone interested > in buying a running "A" engine. Please be aware that something like this may > indeed be running, but you don't really know how good the engine is until > you check it out with measuring tools. Even then you may not know, unless > you are really engine-knowledgeable and plan to look at the overhaul parts > list and machine-shop receipts that the seller SHOULD be able to supply you > with. > > Obviously, you can decide (or not) to trust that what the guy tells you > about it is true, but please be careful of buying a running "A" engine and > just bolting it to your Piet. Something this old has probably been > overhauled many times, but how good was the last one? Remember that our > parents' generation were young and working in the factories when these > engines were originally made. > > Just my cautious two-cents worth. The "A" is a fine engine, but there's no > substitute for close, knowledgeable scrutiny, when it comes to flying > airplanes or spending money! > > Mike > > == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: what to do
Date: Mar 13, 1999
Steve, I being one of the more silent people of the group I was fortunate to have just deleted the file- happy 99 before opening it. I was just sent the same file with no message by someone who had to have gone to my web site because of the subject that they used for the e-mail. Before deleting the file I wrote down the persons e-mail address and time sent. My question is there anything that can or should be done to stop this kind of practice. phil -- Check out Crusader Toys @ http://www.Crusadertoys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Earl Myers
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Will Graff is the guy I was speaking about! He is supposed to be at B99. I think his struts are 4 pieces with a metal cable or something running down the middle. His Piet a/c with the Funk B really scoots! Earl -----Original Message----- From: ADonJr(at)aol.com Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 2:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: An "A" engine >Hey, All! >Speaking of wood struts...does anyone know about Wilbur Graff's (sp?) struts? >I saw his plane at Brodhead in 1996, and was very taken with the idea of >wooden lift struts. Curious about weight and strength. I hope to see his >plane, and him, at B'head '99, but thought I'd ask, anyway. Thanx for any >info. >Don Cooley > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <rhart(at)cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
Subject:
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Subscribe Subscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ian Holland
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Does anyone know how to get a hold of Gary Price? I would sure like to hear what he did with the square tubing etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: An "A" engine
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Ian, Go to http://users.aol.com/BPANews/events.html which has his address and phone number, and hooks you up with Grant's pages of tons of fun and useful Piet "stuff". Warren Ian Holland wrote: > Does anyone know how to get a hold of Gary Price? I would sure like to > hear what he did with the square tubing etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Hi Steve! Please but us down for 2 hats! "Low & Slow" on the back is perfect! Mike Conkling Pretty Prairie, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Les Lampman <lblampman(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: Piet hats.
Date: Mar 14, 1999
Hi Steve, Not sure if my first message made it through. New to the mailing list. I'd like to sign up for a hat, low & Slow on the back sounds good. Les Lampman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Progress pics
Date: Mar 15, 1999
I got a message from Walt Evans but lost the reply address. Anyway, Walt, send me any and all pics of your progress. I will post them on my site. Anyone else wanting a visual record of your building progress online, send 'em on over! Only two rules: 1. Email images to rdecosta(at)wrld.com NOT THIS YAHOO ADDRESS! Yahoo will spit them out! 2. Make all your filenames in this format: -.jpg for example: RDeCosta-Ribs1.jpg or WEvans-Fuselage3.jpg That way I wont get your pics mixed up. Very shortly I am going to install ColdFusion on my server, and at that point I will have the ability to handle automatic uploads of your pics, as well as your profile, descriptions of each pic with dates, etc... Look for it in a few months. For now Email will do. I have decided to get a domain name with the contribution $$ coming in (got $6 so far, thanks guys!). As soon as I get enough ($70), I am going to reserve AirCamper.org (once I clear it with Mr.Pietenpol, that is). Once that and ColdFusion are in place, you will all be able to remotely upload and administer your projects progress online via www.AirCamper.org/ Richard p.s. not that its terribly important, but I have picked a name for my plane (it needs one, doesnt it?): "The Scarborough Flyer" (I live in Scarborough, ME). == http://www.wrld.com/w3builder Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: what to do
Date: Mar 15, 1999
Sure, If they are a member of this list I'll remove them it was intentional, Additionally, I have found that the host service provider frowns at this kind of activity and if supplied with the details will take appropriate action. I have seen this terminate more than one person's access to the net. Steve e. -----Original Message----- Phil Peck Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what to do Steve, I being one of the more silent people of the group I was fortunate to have just deleted the file- happy 99 before opening it. I was just sent the same file with no message by someone who had to have gone to my web site because of the subject that they used for the e-mail. Before deleting the file I wrote down the persons e-mail address and time sent. My question is there anything that can or should be done to stop this kind of practice. phil -- Check out Crusader Toys @ http://www.Crusadertoys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Les Lampman <lblampman(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE: what to do
Date: Mar 15, 1999
Steve, I doubt seriously that the Happy99 attachment was sent intentionally. Happy99 redefines a couple of files on the target computer and then proceeds to attach itself, unknowingly, to the outgoing email from that machine. The person sending the email doesn't even know there's an attachment going along. The attachment is small enough that most users wouldn't catch the extra bit of time it takes to send that email, especially not if sent with other items. I had to rid my computer of the beast after my wife received an email from a women's mailing list she belongs to. The email was from someone she regularly corresponds with. There could be one along with this email but I checked my files minutes ago and the buggers not there. If there is an attachment with this email is NOT supposed to be there. Regards, Les Lampman -----Original Message----- steve(at)byu.edu Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: what to do Sure, If they are a member of this list I'll remove them it was intentional, Additionally, I have found that the host service provider frowns at this kind of activity and if supplied with the details will take appropriate action. I have seen this terminate more than one person's access to the net. Steve e. -----Original Message----- Phil Peck Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: what to do Steve, I being one of the more silent people of the group I was fortunate to have just deleted the file- happy 99 before opening it. I was just sent the same file with no message by someone who had to have gone to my web site because of the subject that they used for the e-mail. Before deleting the file I wrote down the persons e-mail address and time sent. My question is there anything that can or should be done to stop this kind of practice. phil -- Check out Crusader Toys @ http://www.Crusadertoys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: A word of caution about engines in general
Date: Mar 15, 1999
I fully agree with Richard. I bought a "running" C-85-12F from a guy in Florida. It had been living on the stern of an airboat and was indeed running. I figured that it was worth the $1000 USD he was asking for it. The engine arrived and I finally decided to tear it down. Boy, am I glad I did. The crank had started out it's last life as a 0.020" under but was now 0.030"-0.035" under! The jugs were completely shot as were the mags. Sure, it was running, on 3 cylinders and one mag! It's now in the shop being rebuilt. Was it a good deal? Sure, I still ended up with enough good parts to have it rebuilt for less than I could have purchased a used engine for. Ken On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Richard DeCosta wrote: > No doubt! I was the one looking at the running engine. I have no > intention of just bolting it to my Piet. :) Can't imagine! I am going > to totally rebuild ANY engine I get. I just figured one that is > running is bound to be a better candidate for rebuld than one that is > not. I am going to pop the head off and take my measurements of the > engine I buy, for sure. > > Thanks for the advice tho. > > Richard > A very careful, bordering on paranoid, builder. > > > ---Michael Hinchman wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought I saw a message from someone > interested > > in buying a running "A" engine. Please be aware that something like > this may > > indeed be running, but you don't really know how good the engine is > until > > you check it out with measuring tools. Even then you may not know, > unless > > you are really engine-knowledgeable and plan to look at the overhaul > parts > > list and machine-shop receipts that the seller SHOULD be able to > supply you > > with. > > > > Obviously, you can decide (or not) to trust that what the guy tells > you > > about it is true, but please be careful of buying a running "A" > engine and > > just bolting it to your Piet. Something this old has probably been > > overhauled many times, but how good was the last one? Remember that > our > > parents' generation were young and working in the factories when these > > engines were originally made. > > > > Just my cautious two-cents worth. The "A" is a fine engine, but > there's no > > substitute for close, knowledgeable scrutiny, when it comes to flying > > airplanes or spending money! > > > > Mike > > > > > > == > http://www.wrld.com/w3builder > Now you can buy my CD at MP3.com: > http://db.mp3.com/Visitor/order.php3?cd_id=968 > > "Instrument flying is an unnatural act probably punishable by God." -Gordon Baxter > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: RE: what to do
Date: Mar 15, 1999
Agreed. It has been propagated around the university in great numbers. We have 30K students and they all have email. UGH. Stevee -----Original Message----- Lampman Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: what to do Steve, I doubt seriously that the Happy99 attachment was sent intentionally. Happy99 redefines a couple of files on the target computer and then proceeds to attach itself, unknowingly, to the outgoing email from that machine. The person sending the email doesn't even know there's an attachment going along. The attachment is small enough that most users wouldn't catch the extra bit of time it takes to send that email, especially not if sent with other items. I had to rid my computer of the beast after my wife received an email from a women's mailing list she belongs to. The email was from someone she regularly corresponds with. There could be one along with this email but I checked my files minutes ago and the buggers not there. If there is an attachment with this email is NOT supposed to be there. Regards, Les Lampman -----Original Message----- steve(at)byu.edu Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: what to do Sure, If they are a member of this list I'll remove them it was intentional, Additionally, I have found that the host service provider frowns at this kind of activity and if supplied with the details will take appropriate action. I have seen this terminate more than one person's access to the net. Steve e. -----Original Message----- ________________________________________________________________________________ Phil Peck Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:38 PM
Subject: what to do
Steve, I being one of the more silent people of the group I was fortunate to have just deleted the file- happy 99 before opening it. I was just sent the same file with no message by someone who had to have gone to my web site because of the subject that they used for the e-mail. Before deleting the file I wrote down the persons e-mail address and time sent. My question is there anything that can or should be done to stop this kind of practice. phil -- Check out Crusader Toys @ http://www.Crusadertoys.com


February 07, 1999 - March 15, 1999

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ao