Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-as
April 30, 1999 - May 18, 1999
Thanks Mike.
Thats quite a compliment comming from you , after following your
building process through pics on the web
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 10:50 AM
Subject: Walt Evans Work
Its not linked up yet, (wll be tomorrow) so heres the address
for
Walt's pics: http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/
Walt- Your workmanship looks just great from the photos you have on
Richard's Piet site. I love the wheels !! Keep pluggin away !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: put some pics on Richard DeCosta's Piet site |
Ken,
pics look great. It looks like you're cramped for space like me.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 4:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: put some pics on Richard DeCosta's Piet site
>http://www.aircamper.org/users/Khannan/pietenpol/
>
>please check out my pietenpol project
>
>Thanks Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Hi Steve!
Good job on the hats!! -- finally got mine today! We must have a slow
horse on our leg of the Postal system!!
Re: the recumbent bike bussiness-- I guess it's just another case of a
bicycle mechanic trying to build a flying machine!!! ;-)
Mike C.
PP, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
These are called 1A, 2A & 3A fits......
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 12:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS))
>Message-ID: <14E0DAB53FC(at)adena.byu.edu>
>
>Ken,
> You can use a standard one.
> When I was buying my taps, I chatted with an old guy at King Bolt near
where I
>live and learned a bit about tap and die. Some are manufactured to closer
>matching fit than others, so you may want to dress up both your lug and
your
>fork. Just check carefully that it doesn't remove too much material.
>Warren
>
>Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
>> I'm quite sure that this is correct and it does make perfect sense in
>> hindsight. I'm just a little annoyed with myself for not figuring it out
>> sooner. At the very least, I could have lucked into it by waiting to tap
>> after I welded. DOUUUUGGGHHH!
>>
>> Just to clarify, is a special, close tolerence tap required to finish the
>> tapping, or is that what they use for the initial tap? In other words, do
>> I have to buy another tap or can I use a standerd one?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ken
>>
>> On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, walter evans wrote:
>>
>> > Ken,
>> > Just remember that what my AP told me comes from a guy who is a
licenced AP
>> > who's been doing this alot of years, and he tends to be a perfectionist
to
>> > detail and safety. Who can say what percentage of safety factor is
figured
>> > into the certified aircraft.
>> > I just wanted to pass along something I learned , that I didn't know
6 mo.
>> > ago. You should check with some AP's that you can find, and get their
>> > input.
>> > It's a strange building technique , but kinda makes sense when you
think
>> > about it.
>> > walt
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> The hats are done and look great I have 3 left of the $18 version (low and
> slow on the back) if you are still interested. Add $2 shipping per order
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve Eldredge
Hey Steve!
Received our hats yesterday and they really are nice! Great job! And
they fit the whole family, from 3 to 30 something.
See you at Brodhead!
Mike List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
I have several sets of airplane plans at home, and one set for the Smith
Miniplane uses...(to attach the top wing to the lower wing) an
An46-26 eyebolt in the lower rear wing mount, and a 3/8 cut thread homemade
nut, pinned, and welded into the wing strut.
I have been looking into this system for my ace, except that the cut thread
nut, would be replaced by a formed thread coupling nut, welded into the wing
strut. Then to avoid the welding scale, I would either use white lead, or
just scerw a beez wax coated bolt into the coupling nut and weld the nut
fast into the strut.
The bolt to plug the thread hole, and the bezz wax to produce a smoke gas
schield to keep oxygen away from the weld.
About the an4626 bolt, wicks catalog says that this bolt is strong to
125000psi, and it costs only 14.00 or so each.
ocb
>From: Ian Holland
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:49:48 -0700
>
>The machine is on the gear and I have been following the discussion on
>the 3/4 X 2 1/2 inch lift strut with great interest. Along these lines,
>I am wanting to install adjustable fittings on each strut to allow
>dihedral adjustment and wash out adjustment (also to make flight tuning
>easier).
>
>The question is " what are folks using to do this?" I look at the
>catelogues and see prices starting at $100 per attachment. With the
>scrounging, experimental expertise out there in the Piet community,
>someone must have a better way. Care to share it?
>
>On the gear with the centre wing section and wires on, the machine is
>starting to look impressive. I also am in the process of tearing apart a
>Corvair motor, 1997 vintage.
>Best regards,
>-=Ian=-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KatyBill(at)aol.com |
pls delete me from this discussion group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KatyBill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
pls delete me from this discussion group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KatyBill(at)aol.com |
pls delete me from this discussion group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KatyBill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
pls delete me from this discussion group.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
THANKS......
May see you guys there after all.
Mike King
GN-1
Dallas
>OSH is July 28-Aug 3
>Brodhead is July 30-31
>
>for the full scoop see http://members.aol.com/bpanews/count.html
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Michael King
>> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 12:58 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: DATES
>>
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> What are the dates for OSHKOSH and
>> BRODHEAD? May try to make one or
>> both of them.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Mike King
>> GN-1
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Group:
I have never been to Brodhead but would like to go this year. Is there
camping space available or a camp ground there? I want to bring my Dad's
motorhome - is there space available?
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey) |
Yes, without hookups. I think they charge $5.00 for the entire time.
Bob B.
> From: Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Brodhead
> Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 9:46 AM
>
> Group:
> I have never been to Brodhead but would like to go this year. Is there
> camping space available or a camp ground there? I want to bring my Dad's
> motorhome - is there space available?
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hats not Hatz |
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> That'd be great. I need to log some more X/C time before my big trip
> to OSH in July.
>
> --- Mike Cunningham wrote:
> > Richard, your gonna need your right arm too fly your Piet! I just
> > took a
> > look through my American Hatz Assoc. roster and don't see anybody in
> > Maine.
> > There are some members in CT, NY, PA, etc. If you like I will email
> > you
> > some info on them. Maybe you can take a 172 down their way.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard DeCosta
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 11:04 AM
> > Subject: RE: Hats not Hatz
> >
> >
> > >I'd give my right arm for a ride in a Hatz. Any of you guy near
> > Maine?
> > >
> > >Careful you guys, we Hatz builders are lurking out here :-)
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
> > >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 8:06 PM
> > >Subject: Hats not Hatz
> > >
> > >
> > >>Steve: I got my hat today, It is even nicer than you described!!
> > This
> > >>thing should last forever. Thanks!
> > >>
> > >>John Duprey
> > >
> > >
> > >===
> > >My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
> > >....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and
> > be at
> > rest. -Psalm 55:6
> > >---------------------------------------------------------
> > >Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> > >---------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ===
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
> ....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
Richard: Pick me up in Mass on the way I will help pay the gas, I want a
ride in one too!
John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sorry Folks, was RE: Piet hats. |
Steve,
I just thought you were trying to sell 3 hats so you sent a message for each
one.
Ted
P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off at the fire wall
so that exhaust doesn't come back through the "oil line" when you disconect
the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly around smoking
ALL the time!!
>What a blooming idiot. Here I am unintentionally spamming my own list.
>
>Beg you pardon.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> steve(at)byu.edu
>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:32 AM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: RE: Piet hats.
>>
>>
>> The hats are done and look great I have 3 left of the $18
>> version (low and
>> slow on the back) if you are still interested. Add $2
>> shipping per order
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Steve Eldredge
>> 1005 E 620 N
>> Provo UT 84606
>>
>>
>> Steve Eldredge
>> IT Services
>> Brigham Young University
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > Behalf Of Les
>> > Lampman
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:17 PM
>> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > Subject: RE: Piet hats.
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Steve,
>> >
>> > Not sure if my first message made it through. New to the
>> > mailing list.
>> >
>> > I'd like to sign up for a hat, low & Slow on the back sounds good.
>> >
>> > Les Lampman
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Doug,
We have "camped" at Brodhead before. There are nice, grassy areas
to park your motorhome. There are no hookups so fill your tanks before
you get there. It is fun being "right there".
See you at Brodhead,
Have fun!
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe & Marian Beck <flyretina(at)feist.com> |
Steve:
Received caps the other day. Love 'em! Thanks again for your efforts
and committment to quality experimental aviation.
The Wichita Piet clan has two spare fuselages (one short, one long) "on
display" in my shop now.
CJB, King of PolyTak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off at the fire wall
>so that exhaust doesn't come back through the "oil line" when you disconect
>the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly around smoking
>ALL the time!!
Ted- Good question. I have no valve but will be putting on a 'cap' at the
cockpit
end of the tubing when not in use this year. Otherwise you do get some
backpressure
when the smoke system is not in use......little puffs of air that will push any
residual
oil back thru the line and oil up your cockpit area some. A little messy, but
otherwise
not too big a problem.
Mike C.
P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off at
the fire wall
so that exhaust doesn't come back through the oil line
when you disconect
the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly
around smoking
ALL the time!!
Ted- Good question. I have no valve but will be putting on a
'cap' at the cockpit
end of the tubing when not in use this year. Otherwise you do get
some backpressure
when the smoke system is not in use......little puffs of air that will
push any residual
oil back thru the line and oil up your cockpit area some. A little
messy, but otherwise
not too big a problem.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
My shut off system is very complex. Might take a long post to describe it,
but I'll try.
When my smoke bottle isn't connected,
1/4" bolt shoved in the tube.
PS. They send me Canopus 68 -Useless it is thick as molasas. Alas, back
to the drawing board.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ted
> Brousseau
> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 9:27 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Sorry Folks, was RE: Piet hats.
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I just thought you were trying to sell 3 hats so you sent a
> message for each
> one.
>
> Ted
>
> P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off
> at the fire wall
> so that exhaust doesn't come back through the "oil line" when
> you disconect
> the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly
> around smoking
> ALL the time!!
>
>
> >What a blooming idiot. Here I am unintentionally spamming
> my own list.
> >
> >Beg you pardon.
> >
> >Steve Eldredge
> >IT Services
> >Brigham Young University
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of
> >> steve(at)byu.edu
> >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:32 AM
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Subject: RE: Piet hats.
> >>
> >>
> >> The hats are done and look great I have 3 left of the $18
> >> version (low and
> >> slow on the back) if you are still interested. Add $2
> >> shipping per order
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Steve Eldredge
> >> 1005 E 620 N
> >> Provo UT 84606
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve Eldredge
> >> IT Services
> >> Brigham Young University
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > Behalf Of Les
> >> > Lampman
> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:17 PM
> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> > Subject: RE: Piet hats.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Steve,
> >> >
> >> > Not sure if my first message made it through. New to the
> >> > mailing list.
> >> >
> >> > I'd like to sign up for a hat, low & Slow on the back
> sounds good.
> >> >
> >> > Les Lampman
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke shut off |
>
>PS. They send me Canopus 68 -Useless it is thick as molasas. Alas, back
>to the drawing board.
>
>Steve Eldredge
Steve- I certainly hope those guys will exchange your 68 for the 13 you wanted.
Geez. All that wait and they send you the wrong stuff.
Mike C.
PS. They send me Canopus 68 -Useless it is thick as
molasas. Alas, back
to the drawing board.
Steve Eldredge
Steve- I certainly hope those guys will exchange your 68 for the 13
you wanted.
Geez. All that wait and they send you the wrong stuff.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: Wing Wash Out |
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 7:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Wash Out
Today a friend with a good deal of taildragger exp. flew my GN-1, it's
first flight since rebuilding. He is concerned about proper rigging. Since
I purchased the machine and didn't build, thhere is a lot I can't tell him.
He asked about wing washout. Can anyone tell me what it should be?
Thanks, Larry Pasley
Carlisle, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | aleron gag seals |
I've got 107 TT on my Piet and still haven't come up with a good
salution for the gap seals, anyone have some info? I had packing tape
on it for awhile, then it left one wing one evening and I put it in a
nieghbors field (the wing got kinda heavy) got some duck tape smeard it
on and got back to my field. Just another day with the Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aleron gag seals |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Eli,
The gap seals I used are made of Moncooat RC airplane model covering.
Any hobby shop. Found the same color as my paint. Seems be holding up
fine on the ailerons. Need to replace it on the elevator. More sun there
I guess.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aleron gag seals |
Wow, it sure sounds like sealing the aileron gap makes a lot of
difference. I had a thought about a solution. Model airplanes
are generally covered with a shrink plastic film that has a heat
sensitive glue on one side. It sticks really good and would
provide a tough and flexible web. I'd cover six or eight inches
top and bottom on both wing and aileron and heat it together at
the gap. I've also thought about using the same stuff over
some six ounce woven glass that would be epoxied to wing and
aileron, leave the gap untreated, and then cover with the same
plastic material as above. May you could try about a foot of
each on each wing, that way if it fails the limited area
shouldn't unbalance your plane too badly to fly OK.
The plastice comes in a lot of colors, so you might not even need
to paint.
Good luck!
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
Doug and others that camp;
It is usually crowded at the Broadhead camping area and I think it is
free. This year I hear it will be REALLY crowded camperwise and it is hard
to manuver in that parking lot if you have a big rig. You can drive on down
to the second entrance for more room but I don't know about the turning
radious........might have to park it alongside the road and scout the
grounds on foot. This is not a fancy to do like Oshkosh so there are not a
lot of rules or signs...........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas E Bowdler
Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 8:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead
>Doug,
> We have "camped" at Brodhead before. There are nice, grassy areas
>to park your motorhome. There are no hookups so fill your tanks before
>you get there. It is fun being "right there".
>See you at Brodhead,
>Have fun!
>Tom
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | rear step hole and tail handle |
Wanted to ask a question about a few things that I have been thinking
about.
First, I've seen on some Piets. a rear step hole, that appears
to be under the rear seat, for rear entry. Is this a handy "must"?
I'm using 24" wheels , so it will be high. If so, do you step right on
the longeron, with the inside boxed in?
Second, when a J3 cub needs to have the tail moved around,
they have a handle just forward of the tail, to pick up and swing
around. Nothing like this is on the plans, and I don't think I've seen
this in Piet pics. What do builders do?
thanks alot,
walt
ps. want to add this as I go, and not have to backtrack.
Wanted to ask a question about a few
things that
I have been thinking about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: rear step hole and tail handle |
First about the step. I built one into my plane but then covered it over
after I got the fuse on the gear. It isn't nessesary for my plane with
800x6" wheels. I built mine by reenforcing the longeron with 1/4" ply so I
wouldn't damage the longeron with my shoes scuffing on it all the time. It
was located under the seat, but like I say I never used it and didn't cut
out the fabric for it. With regards to the tail wheel, I built the rear
mount per plans and use the down tube to the tailwheel as a place to lift.
I'll be darned if Bernie didn't have it right again!
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
-----Original Message-----
evans
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rear step hole and tail handle
Wanted to ask a question about a few things that I have been thinking about.
First, I've seen on some Piets. a rear step hole, that appears to
be under the rear seat, for rear entry. Is this a handy "must"?
I'm using 24" wheels , so it will be high. If so, do you step right on the
longeron, with the inside boxed in?
Second, when a J3 cub needs to have the tail moved around, they
have a handle just forward of the tail, to pick up and swing around.
Nothing like this is on the plans, and I don't think I've seen this in Piet
pics. What do builders do?
thanks alot,
walt
ps. want to add this as I go, and not have to backtrack.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: aleron gag seals |
In the gliders, we use surface tapes. Just glue it on with Super Seam or
whatever, put a couple coats of dope, then color and your done. Just make
sure you don't do a heavy buildup where it flexes.
Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman wrote:
> I've got 107 TT on my Piet and still haven't come up with a good
> salution for the gap seals, anyone have some info? I had packing tape
> on it for awhile, then it left one wing one evening and I put it in a
> nieghbors field (the wing got kinda heavy) got some duck tape smeard it
> on and got back to my field. Just another day with the Piet.
>
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
Rt. 3 Box 13
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rear step hole and tail handle |
Steve,
Thanks for the response. The step seemed logical, but it's hard to
picture the "climb" that you'll have ahead of you when it's finished.
On my little fisher 404, the tailwheel spring sticks out past the hinge
of the rudder, and still you have to reach under from the back to grab
the spring as a handle to lift the tail and pull it. I just figured that
the tailwheel tubes were too far under.
Thanks for clearing that up.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: rear step hole and tail handle
First about the step. I built one into my plane but then covered it
over after I got the fuse on the gear. It isn't nessesary for my plane
with 800x6" wheels. I built mine by reenforcing the longeron with 1/4"
ply so I wouldn't damage the longeron with my shoes scuffing on it all
the time. It was located under the seat, but like I say I never used it
and didn't cut out the fabric for it. With regards to the tail wheel, I
built the rear mount per plans and use the down tube to the tailwheel as
a place to lift. I'll be darned if Bernie didn't have it right again!
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
Behalf Of walter evans
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:52 AM
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Subject: rear step hole and tail handle
Wanted to ask a question about a few things that I have been
thinking about.
appears to be under the rear seat, for rear entry. Is this a handy
"must"?
I'm using 24" wheels , so it will be high. If so, do you step
right on the longeron, with the inside boxed in?
around, they have a handle just forward of the tail, to pick up and
swing around. Nothing like this is on the plans, and I don't think I've
seen this in Piet pics. What do builders do?
thanks alot,
walt
ps. want to add this as I go, and not have to backtrack.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
<<From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aleron gag seals
Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:45 AM
<<<
salution for the gap seals, anyone have some info?>>>
I fought that problem for a long time. Then I got me some 100 MPH tape
( Wag-Aero ) & it has worked great for the last four years. Put it on
the tail too.
Mike B ( Piet N687MB )
From: Eli or Robert or Teresa
Bozeman
R>To:
Pietenpol Discussion
sealsDate: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:45 AM
I've got 107 TT on my
Piet and
still haven't come up with a goodsalution for the gap seals, anyone
have
some info?
I fought that problem for a long time.
Then I got
me some 100 MPH tape ( Wag-Aero ) it has worked great for the last
four
years. Put it on the tail too.
Mike B ( Piet N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
Just a comment on a sad event yesterday. Out at Kakabeka Falls our Ultra
light instructor and a passenger were found in the wreckage of a Cuby
II. No telling how long they were on the runway. Pictures show a typical
departure stall effect. Will have to wait for the transport safety
investigation for cause. Kakabeka falls is about 20 NM from Thunder Bay
Airport with lots of trafic into it.
No mention was made of an ELT, even though TB is a busy commercial
airport. Again will have to wait for the findings. It started my
thinking of a very light ELT for the Piet. After almost two and a half
years of building and interacting with the Piet chat group, I don't
think I have heard the topic come up.
What works (none of them do all the time), what's affordable, and any
recommendations?
Sure got my wife worked up, as we both knew the instructor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rear step hole and tail handle |
Walt wrote "I've seen on some Piets a rear step hole.....is this needed"
I also have the large wheels and short legs so it's a real chore slinging
that leg up over the top longeron, One of the pix you saw may have been my
project... anyway, I tried to solve it by ordering a pre-formed fiberglass
step from T.E.A.M. (Tennesee Engineering and Manufacturing) who put out the
MiniMax and sell the step for that plane. I boxed it in under the rear seat
and positioned on top of the bottom longeron at a cross member. The box
structure is to fair it out in line with the fabric contour between the
longitudinal side stringer and the bottom longeron. After all of that it does
not do the job and I may remove it. Problem is that the hole goes straight
in rather than at a forward angle. This makes it quite awkward to use. I
once had a 1930 Buhl Bull Pup that had a retractable tube-within-a-tube that
was actuated by a plain 'ol screen door spring and had a finger ring welded
on the end to grab it with. Worked like a charm, but on the Piet there isn't
room to keep it inside the fuselage and fit under the torque tube. Maybe
someone else can suggest a way to mount one like that. Good luck
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Mueller" <rmueller7(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Flying and Glider Man |
I was wondering, is the "Original Air Camper & Sky Scout Builders Manual"
listed on the Pietenpol website the same material as the original F&G
Manual/EAA reprint, or are there pertinent revisions to the material that
one would need? I have a copy of both the EAA reprint and the original '32
Manual (I think that was the Air Camper year), so if the info is the same,
I woould rather not buy another copy.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Hi Tom,
My gear (right side only) is welded. Today I will sand blast. Erwin a friend
is re-making my lower part of the intake, including a new "Y". It looks good
I saw it last night before the RAA meeting. He had run out of Gas, so I took
him my bottles. I pick up my new 'Pucks' today. When this is all done I'll
get the other side done.
The Brampton flying Club airshow committee has asked for my plane for a
static display. Of course I will comply... I will have to make up
some'History Story Board for the display and to promote Petenpols' 70th
Anniversary, as well as the Brussel's Flyin coming up on the 19th June. If
you have any ideas for the board let me know, I'm not much of an Artist.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: gap seals
Will your Piet really do 100 or would 70 MPH tape have been just
as good?
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)>>>
Aint no 70 MPH tape.
Mike B (Piet N687MB )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Authority |
I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The only
number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one have a
real number I can call?
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Steve Eldredge and May issue of Sport Aviation... |
Congrats Steve! I saw your photo and bio on page 126 of the May 1999
issue of Sport Aviation. I showed it to my wife and asked how come
wives in Utah were so understanding about their husbands airplane lusts.
She said, "Most women are just happy to have there husbands lust at all
and that they attach ceiling fans to the ceiling better in Utah." And
"That I better not trying to attach anything to our ceiling fan!".
Anyway, I always love turning back to the "What our members are
building/restoring" section to see what nice looking Piet is there.
Hope to see your flying machine at Broadhead.
Also, everybody should look at "Hints for Homebuilders" section this
month. I've been taking pieces over to a friends because I couldn't
come up with the money to buy a power planner. But this guy has got the
right idea. He took a Black and Decker electric hand plane and made a
simple attachment to turn it into a power planner. The ingenuity of the
homebuilder will never stop amazing me.
Greg Yotz
P.S. Got my new bandsaw blades and starting to cut more pieces today.
Congrats Steve! I saw your
photo and bio
on page 126 of the May 1999 issue of Sport Aviation. I showed it
to my
wife and asked how come wives in Utah were so understanding about their
husbands
airplane lusts. She said, Most women are just happy to have
there
husbands lust at all and that they attach ceiling fans to the ceiling
better in
Utah. And That I better not trying to attach anything
to our
ceiling fan!.
Anyway, I always love turning back
to the
What our members are building/restoring section to see what
nice
looking Piet is there.
Hope to see your flying machine at
Broadhead.
Also, everybody should look at
Hints for
Homebuilders section this month. I've been taking pieces
over to a
friends because I couldn't come up with the money to buy a power
planner.
But this guy has got the right idea. He took a Black and Decker
electric
hand plane and made a simple attachment to turn it into a power
planner.
The ingenuity of the homebuilder will never stop amazing
me.
Greg Yotz
P.S. Got my new bandsaw blades
and
starting to cut more pieces today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Actually, ELT's are generally quite inexpensive. check out
http://www.avionix.com/elt.html for 2 ELT's at $199 each. This was a topic
of a great deal of discussion in the local Newfoundland media last year
when a Pilatus PC-12 crashed. It had an engine failure and they tried to
make the field at Clarenville. The ceiling was less than 500' and vis was
poor. The Gander tower tried to vector the plane to the field, but the
field shows up on thier screens as a dot about 5 miles in diameter (a very
good firend of mine is an ATC in Gander). They broke out of the clouds at
quite a distance from the field and ended up in a bog. with a number of
seriously injured passengers and crew.
In the aftermath, it was determined that the plane was without an ELT.
According to Transport Canada, you can remove an ELT for service and
legally operate the plane for a specific number of days without it (30,
60, 90 ?, I can't remember which). When the media figured out that the
ELT's cost less than $500, they had a field day at both the airline's and
Transport Canada's expense. I, too, was wondering about the logic behind
this waiver. Murphy's Law dictates that the only time you will need one is
when it's not installed. Even if the PC-12 had some sort of exotic ELT
that cost 10 times what a gen av one does, it's still only $2000 to have a
spare standing by.
Personally, I have an ELT and fully intend to use it in my Christavia.
It's VERY cheap insurance. This is especially true for Canada with such a
low population density.
Oh yeah, here's a question asked at a TC safety seminar. What do you do if
you make a precautionary landing in a remote area while on a flight plan?
For example, you're flying a flight plan in a float plane (say that 5
times fast ;-) and decide to put down on a lake due to deteriorating
weather and can't call anyone before you land.
The answer surprised me. One hour after your ETA, you TURN ON YOUR ELT!
After hearing the explanation, it makes perfect sence. SAR will start a
search if you have not reported in 1 hour after your ETA on a flight plan.
Since they are already looking, you might as well make it easy for them
and allow them to send a helicopter directly to you. Of course, you should
make every attempt to contact someone before this. When I flew on floats
in Newfoundland, I always had a list of ALL the frequencies used in the
area including company frequencies of the airlines, Gander Center
frequencies, etc. That way, it increased my chances of reaching an
overflying airliner in such a case.
Oh well, enough rambling.
Ken
On Mon, 3 May 1999, Ian Holland wrote:
> No mention was made of an ELT, even though TB is a busy commercial
> airport. Again will have to wait for the findings. It started my
> thinking of a very light ELT for the Piet. After almost two and a half
> years of building and interacting with the Piet chat group, I don't
> think I have heard the topic come up.
>
> What works (none of them do all the time), what's affordable, and any
> recommendations?
________________________________________________________________________________
I have the ACK ELT in my Air Camper. Mounted behind the front panel on the
fuse crossmember. I may be wrong, but I think the regs say that you have to
have one if you are flying outside your test area, and you have more than
one seat. The ELT was about $200 and has the remote indicators and switch.
I mounted the antenna ahead of the front windshield. It is about 24" long.
Not very authentic looking but the only place I could find a ground plane.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ian
> Holland
> Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:00 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Safety
>
>
> Just a comment on a sad event yesterday. Out at Kakabeka
> Falls our Ultra
> light instructor and a passenger were found in the wreckage of a Cuby
> II. No telling how long they were on the runway. Pictures
> show a typical
> departure stall effect. Will have to wait for the transport safety
> investigation for cause. Kakabeka falls is about 20 NM from
> Thunder Bay
> Airport with lots of trafic into it.
>
> No mention was made of an ELT, even though TB is a busy commercial
> airport. Again will have to wait for the findings. It started my
> thinking of a very light ELT for the Piet. After almost two and a half
> years of building and interacting with the Piet chat group, I don't
> think I have heard the topic come up.
>
> What works (none of them do all the time), what's affordable, and any
> recommendations?
>
> Sure got my wife worked up, as we both knew the instructor.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
It will do 100. I did a "high speed" (ha ha) pass Saturday and had to
throttle back a bit to keep it under 100. Controls were very heavy at that
high speed however.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Mike Bell
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 6:54 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: gap seals
>
>
> Will your Piet really do 100 or would 70 MPH tape have been just
> as good?
>
> Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
>
>
> Michael Brusilow on 05/03/99
> 07:12:02 PM
>
> Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> cc:
> Subject: gap seals
>
>
> <<From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: aleron gag seals
> Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:45 AM
>
>
> <<<
> good
> salution for the gap seals, anyone have some info?>>>
>
> I fought that problem for a long time. Then I got me some 100
> MPH tape ( Wag-Aero ) & it has worked great for the last four
> years. Put it on the tail too.
>
> Mike B ( Piet N687MB )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Steve Eldredge and May issue of Sport Aviation... |
Thanks! I am axiously awaiting my copy. I figure I better put something in
having been a year and a half since completion....
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
-----Original Message-----
Yotz
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 8:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Eldredge and May issue of Sport Aviation...
Congrats Steve! I saw your photo and bio on page 126 of the May 1999 issue
of Sport Aviation. I showed it to my wife and asked how come wives in Utah
were so understanding about their husbands airplane lusts. She said, "Most
women are just happy to have there husbands lust at all and that they attach
ceiling fans to the ceiling better in Utah." And "That I better not trying
to attach anything to our ceiling fan!".
Anyway, I always love turning back to the "What our members are
building/restoring" section to see what nice looking Piet is there.
Hope to see your flying machine at Broadhead.
Also, everybody should look at "Hints for Homebuilders" section this month.
I've been taking pieces over to a friends because I couldn't come up with
the money to buy a power planner. But this guy has got the right idea. He
took a Black and Decker electric hand plane and made a simple attachment to
turn it into a power planner. The ingenuity of the homebuilder will never
stop amazing me.
Greg Yotz
P.S. Got my new bandsaw blades and starting to cut more pieces today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
Howdy from Big "D"
I too have an ACK Model E-01 in my GN-1 Aircamper.
It is mounted under my rear seat with remote switches
in the rear cockpit. The antenna is mounted atop the
right wing. The external handheld radio antenna is
mounted on the left wing.
The Model E-01 ELT is automatically activated upon
sensing a change of velocity, along it's longitudinal
axis, exceeding 3.5 feet per second. It is designed
to be removed from the aircraft and used as a personal
locating device when it is necessary to leave the scene
of the accident. Not a bad idea when flying low and slow
in rural areas.
Mike King
GN-1
77 MK
Dallas, Texas
Like Steve's, mine has the
>I have the ACK ELT in my Air Camper. Mounted behind the front panel on the
>fuse crossmember. I may be wrong, but I think the regs say that you have to
>have one if you are flying outside your test area, and you have more than
>one seat. The ELT was about $200 and has the remote indicators and switch.
>I mounted the antenna ahead of the front windshield. It is about 24" long.
>Not very authentic looking but the only place I could find a ground plane.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of Ian
>> Holland
>> Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:00 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Safety
>>
>>
>> Just a comment on a sad event yesterday. Out at Kakabeka
>> Falls our Ultra
>> light instructor and a passenger were found in the wreckage of a Cuby
>> II. No telling how long they were on the runway. Pictures
>> show a typical
>> departure stall effect. Will have to wait for the transport safety
>> investigation for cause. Kakabeka falls is about 20 NM from
>> Thunder Bay
>> Airport with lots of trafic into it.
>>
>> No mention was made of an ELT, even though TB is a busy commercial
>> airport. Again will have to wait for the findings. It started my
>> thinking of a very light ELT for the Piet. After almost two and a half
>> years of building and interacting with the Piet chat group, I don't
>> think I have heard the topic come up.
>>
>> What works (none of them do all the time), what's affordable, and any
>> recommendations?
>>
>> Sure got my wife worked up, as we both knew the instructor.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Re Elt:
I mounted my Elt on the front cockpit floor in line with the left
side of the front seat.
I mounted the antenna on the fairing between the wing & center
section.
Mike B (Piet N687MB)
Re
Elt:
I mounted my Elt on the front
cockpit
floor in line with the left side of the front seat.
I
mounted the antenna
on the fairing between the wing center
section.
size3>
Mike B
(Piet
N687MB)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: Steve Eldredge and May issue of Sport Aviation... |
>
> Thanks! I am axiously awaiting my copy. I figure I better put something in
> having been a year and a half since completion....
>
Steveeeee- Congrat's on making the May issue of Sport Aviation !!! Looks good
!!!
PS- don't forget to checkout the classifieds under books/video's and you'll see
my stinking video
now advertised !
Mike C.
Thanks!
I am axiously awaiting my copy. I figure I better put something in
having been a year and a half since completion....
Steveeeee- Congrat's on
making the May issue of Sport Aviation !!! Looks good
!!!
PS- don't forget to checkout the classifieds under books/video's and
you'll see my stinking video
now advertised !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
<< I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The only
number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one have a
real number I can call?
Thanks,
-=Ian=- >>
I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a machine answers. I have
left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the manual and have been in
contact with William many times. I do not know what is up. I will mail his
number when I get back to my computer.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
Hey guys, I've got a King KLX 100 GPS/COM handheld, used 2 seasons.
Its great for us low and slow pilots, you can run around all day down
low and never get lost, then hit hme and get a direct home.....
I'm needing 800.00 out of it OBO
Robert B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
All,
Rats. Big hairy greasy ones! I mailed a check to William Wynne about two
weeks ago. So far, no conversion manual and the check hasn't been cashed
yet. If either of you make contact, give him my regards. He's probably on
vacation or something. By the way, William K., how have you found the
conversion manual?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
>
> << I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The only
> number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one have a
> real number I can call?
>
> Thanks,
> -=Ian=- >>
>
> I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a machine answers. I have
> left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the manual and have been
in
> contact with William many times. I do not know what is up. I will mail
his
> number when I get back to my computer.
>
> William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
Hmmm... I sent him a check six weeks ago for the manual. I still
haven't received my manual or any explanation what the delay might be.
I wonder if he is sick.
--- Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << I am trying to contact William Wynne re his
> rebuild manual. The only
> number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from
> Canada. Any one have a
> real number I can call?
>
> Thanks,
> -=Ian=- >>
>
> I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a
> machine answers. I have
> left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the
> manual and have been in
> contact with William many times. I do not know what
> is up. I will mail his
> number when I get back to my computer.
>
> William Koucky
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
When welding nuts, be sure to sand off all Cadmium be for applying heat. Do not
inhale cadmium gas/smoke!
Warren Shoun wrote:
> Ian,
> Let me encourage you to just keep an eye out with the aircraft supply
> houses for sales and surplus. Several weeks ago, I found a 50# box of
> surplus forks at AS&S and bought 8 of the following for $5.00 total.
> 3 7/8" long X 1/2" rolled threaded fork. Head is 7/8" wide:
> 1 3/16" deep slot; hole 5/16" and will accept a tab 3/16" thick. These are
> new surplus and are cadmium plated.
> Also found some new truck wheel lug nuts that fit perfectly and am
> seriously considering welding these in the ends of my struts for fittings,
> unless anyone here can talk me out of it.
> And yes I did check and they are gone, and the counter guy told me that
> they get this kind of stuff in all the time.
> Good Luck.
> Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The only
> number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one have a
> real number I can call?
>
> Thanks,
> -=Ian=- >>
>
> I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a machine answers. I have
> left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the manual and have been in
> contact with William many times. I do not know what is up. I will mail his
> number when I get back to my computer.
>
> William Koucky
I have also attempted to contact him and failed to get a reply. I even
sent a letter by snail mail with a s.a.s.e. requesting a price list.
This was over 6 weeks ago and haven't received anything. My $$$$ will
be spent elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
To Mike Cuy, and any of the rest of you with brakes.
I machined the 4130 1.5" OD straight axle today. I have cut
threads for spindle nuts and turned the bushing section to accept my
converted motorcycle wheels.
I noticed that your pictures Mike, have a shaft protruding down
through the bottom block. Is this bolt preventing axle rotation and
acting as a travel limit? How is the bolt fastened to the axle and if
this is what you are doing is it working out well?
I guess what I'm asking is how do you stop the axle from rotating as
the brakes absorb the wheels torque?
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scherer2(at)airmail.net (Glenn Scherer) |
>I have the ACK ELT in my Air Camper. Mounted behind the front panel on
the
>fuse crossmember. I may be wrong, but I think the regs say that you
have to
>have one if you are flying outside your test area, and you have more
than
>one seat. The ELT was about $200 and has the remote indicators and
switch.
>I mounted the antenna ahead of the front windshield. It is about 24"
long.
>Not very authentic looking but the only place I could find a ground
plane.
You're right about the reg, Steve, at least in the US. There was an
extensive discussion on r.a.h awhile back about it. US regs say you
have to have one. I thought it was a little weird on something like
the Piet, but that's the rule.
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman |
| Subject: | Adjustable lift strut attachments |
On my struts I used s.a.e.fine thread allthread nuts. these nuts are 2
1/2" long, I mild a groove the lenght of nut and welded a piece of .090
4130 down each side, this was my weld barrel . Next I got the forkends
from a hotrod magazine ( 1/2" rolled threads rod ends for model A Ford)
at a total cost of $6.00 per unit.
I gave one to a friend of mine that owns a machine shop, I asked him to
destroy it for me. He brought it back a few days latter and said
theres no reason for him to tear up his macherey on it, so we believe
its strong enough for the Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks, Bob - I sure need to see a bunch of Piets to see how to make mine!
>From: baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey)
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Brodhead
>Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 11:57:16 -0500
>
>Yes, without hookups. I think they charge $5.00 for the entire time.
>Bob B.
>
>----------
> > From: Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Brodhead
> > Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 9:46 AM
> >
> > Group:
> > I have never been to Brodhead but would like to go this year. Is there
> > camping space available or a camp ground there? I want to bring my Dad's
> > motorhome - is there space available?
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
In a message dated 5/4/99 10:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
randy(at)icomnet.com writes:
<< Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The only
> number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one have a
> real number I can call?
>
> Thanks,
> -=Ian=- >>
>
> I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a machine answers. I have
> left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the manual and have been
in
> contact with William many times. I do not know what is up. I will mail
his
> number when I get back to my computer.
>
> William Koucky
I have also attempted to contact him and failed to get a reply. I even
sent a letter by snail mail with a s.a.s.e. requesting a price list.
This was over 6 weeks ago and haven't received anything. My $$$$ will
be spent elsewhere.
>>
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
I have to say that the manual is worth the money and dealing with William has
been great (when I was able to reach him). He helped me in all areas. I have
tried to call and will try again. His number is 904-426-6028. I thought it
was because of Sun n Fun. He is a busy guy. I have been waiting for him to
return my call to answer a question so I can finish my assembly. I find that
asking the question on VirtualVairs is worth while,too.
William Koucky
Traverse City, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
Does anybody know what a corvair engine weighs when installed in a Piet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
>
> To Mike Cuy, and any of the rest of you with brakes.
>
>>
>> I machined the 4130 1.5" OD straight axle today. I have cut threads for
>> spindle nuts and turned the bushing section to accept my converted
>> motorcycle wheels.
>> I noticed that your pictures Mike, have a shaft protruding down through the
>> bottom block. Is this bolt preventing axle rotation and acting as a travel
>> limit?
>
John- Yes and yes. In addition to those two issues this shaft also prevents
the axle from moving left or right
as you bump along the ground. Frank Pavliga had this happen early on and every
so often they would have
to shove the axle back to it's proper position under the bungees. ***as a word
of caution, no matter what design
you end up using to get the job done, a good thing to do is loop and nicopress
a length of cable around each
axle/gear leg so that if your bungee lets loose the axle won't travel all the
way up to your belly and cause extra
damage.
>
>>
>> How is the bolt fastened to the axle and if this is what you are doing is
>> it working out well?
>
Actually what's happening here is that bolt or shaft is welded to the bottom of
the axle. The shaft is then
run thru a collar or 'tube inside of a tube' that's welded to the inside lower
steel gear fitting.
A little grease there helps it not to squeak. So far the setup works very well
and I'd do it again.
Many solutions though to this dilemma. The WWI guys were ingenious at solving
this very problem.
For more clarity I can mail you (and anyone else interested) a .jpg format
picture that shows
exactly how this thing works.
Mike C.
To Mike Cuy, and any of the rest of you with
brakes.
I machined the 4130
1.5 OD straight axle today. I have cut threads for spindle nuts and
turned the bushing section to accept my converted motorcycle wheels.
I noticed that your pictures Mike, have a shaft protruding down through
the bottom block. Is this bolt preventing axle rotation and acting as a
travel limit?
John- Yes and yes. In addition to those two issues this shaft
also prevents the axle from moving left or right
as you bump along the ground. Frank Pavliga had this happen early
on and every so often they would have
to shove the axle back to it's proper position under the bungees.
***as a word of caution, no matter what design
you end up using to get the job done, a good thing to do is loop and
nicopress a length of cable around each
axle/gear leg so that if your bungee lets loose the axle won't travel all
the way up to your belly and cause extra
damage.
How is
the bolt fastened to the axle and if this is what you are doing is it
working out well?
Actually what's happening here is that bolt or shaft is welded to the
bottom of the axle. The shaft is then
run thru a collar or 'tube inside of a tube' that's welded to the inside
lower steel gear fitting.
A little grease there helps it not to squeak. So far the setup
works very well and I'd do it again.
Many solutions though to this dilemma. The WWI guys were ingenious
at solving this very problem.
For more clarity I can mail you (and anyone else interested) a .jpg
format picture that shows
exactly how this thing works.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
Mike; "ole Earl down the road here would like one!
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles
To Mike Cuy, and any of the rest of you with brakes.
cut threads for spindle nuts and turned the bushing section to accept my
converted motorcycle wheels.
down through the bottom block. Is this bolt preventing axle rotation and
acting as a travel limit?
John- Yes and yes. In addition to those two issues this shaft also
prevents the axle from moving left or right
as you bump along the ground. Frank Pavliga had this happen early
on and every so often they would have
to shove the axle back to it's proper position under the bungees.
***as a word of caution, no matter what design
you end up using to get the job done, a good thing to do is loop and
nicopress a length of cable around each
axle/gear leg so that if your bungee lets loose the axle won't
travel all the way up to your belly and cause extra
damage.
you are doing is it working out well?
Actually what's happening here is that bolt or shaft is welded to
the bottom of the axle. The shaft is then
run thru a collar or 'tube inside of a tube' that's welded to the
inside lower steel gear fitting.
A little grease there helps it not to squeak. So far the setup
works very well and I'd do it again.
Many solutions though to this dilemma. The WWI guys were ingenious
at solving this very problem.
For more clarity I can mail you (and anyone else interested) a .jpg
format picture that shows
exactly how this thing works.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Spring Packs (fwd) |
This is something I found on the RAH usenet group and thought it was quite
interesting. I'll certainly be checking it out. Saving some weight that
far back in the tail has got to help with W&B.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:40:54 +1000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Hovel <jhovel(at)hitech.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Spring Packs |
Ken,
you might consider using limbs from a compound bow (bow and arrow) or have
leaves made up by a bow manufacturer for tailwheel springs! They are light,
have very accurately known spring forces, can be made any shape you need and
last forever and don't corrode.... I'm extremely happy with mine - they cost
me a song to have made exactly to my specs (in carbon fibre).
Go look in the yellow pages and talk to a bow man.
<303print(at)northrim.net> wrote in message
news:7gnfhh$n8k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
> My tailwheel spring for my homebuilt is a bit soft. I know I can make a
new
> one that will solve the problem in the verticle plane. But what reall
worries
> me is that the spring also has a strong tendancy to twist torsionally when
> turning. Will the stiffer spring pack also alieve the storsional twist or
> should I convert to a tube spring with a Scott 3400?
>
> Thanks
> Ken Bauman
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Spring Packs (fwd) |
I saw composite tail springs in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (or was it Wick's).
I think they were speced for a Kitfox.
Ken Beanlands wrote:
> This is something I found on the RAH usenet group and thought it was quite
> interesting. I'll certainly be checking it out. Saving some weight that
> far back in the tail has got to help with W&B.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:40:54 +1000
> From: Joe Hovel <jhovel(at)hitech.net.au>
> Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring Packs
>
> Ken,
> you might consider using limbs from a compound bow (bow and arrow) or have
> leaves made up by a bow manufacturer for tailwheel springs! They are light,
> have very accurately known spring forces, can be made any shape you need and
> last forever and don't corrode.... I'm extremely happy with mine - they cost
> me a song to have made exactly to my specs (in carbon fibre).
> Go look in the yellow pages and talk to a bow man.
>
> <303print(at)northrim.net> wrote in message
> news:7gnfhh$n8k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
> > My tailwheel spring for my homebuilt is a bit soft. I know I can make a
> new
> > one that will solve the problem in the verticle plane. But what reall
> worries
> > me is that the spring also has a strong tendancy to twist torsionally when
> > turning. Will the stiffer spring pack also alieve the storsional twist or
> > should I convert to a tube spring with a Scott 3400?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ken Bauman
> >
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Steve,
Got my hat today. Thanks I like it.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
Mike, I don't know what a .jpg format picture is and whether you're
referring to snail or E-mail but would sure like to see anything you have
that shows meyours works. I have an anti-torque devise on mine that was
designed by a friend but feel there might be room for improvement. Easier to
make changes now, if needed, than later.!! Thanks, Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles
To Mike Cuy, and any of the rest of you with brakes.
I noticed that your pictures Mike, have a shaft protruding down
through the bottom block. Is this bolt preventing axle rotation and
acting as a travel limit?
John- Yes and yes. In addition to those two issues this shaft
also prevents the axle from moving left or right
as you bump along the ground. Frank Pavliga had this happen
early on and every so often they would have
to shove the axle back to it's proper position under the
bungees. ***as a word of caution, no matter what design
you end up using to get the job done, a good thing to do is loop
and nicopress a length of cable around each
axle/gear leg so that if your bungee lets loose the axle won't
travel all the way up to your belly and cause extra
damage.
Mike; how much travel did you allow with the stop cable?
you are doing is it working out well?
Actually what's happening here is that bolt or shaft is welded to
the bottom of the axle. The shaft is then
run thru a collar or 'tube inside of a tube' that's welded to the
inside lower steel gear fitting.
A little grease there helps it not to squeak.
I was wondering how loose the fit would have to be, so that the
axle could tilt and allow one side to move more relative to the other?
So far the setup works very well and I'd do it again.
Many solutions though to this dilemma. The WWI guys were ingenious
at solving this very problem.
For more clarity I can mail you (and anyone else interested) a .jpg
format picture that shows
exactly how this thing works
Mike C.
Yes! Please and thanks :-)
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
I would be interested to find out where you obtained the forks and
nuts,sounds very interesting indeed!
Doug
> From: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 9:59 PM
>
>
> On my struts I used s.a.e.fine thread allthread nuts. these nuts are 2
> 1/2" long, I mild a groove the lenght of nut and welded a piece of .090
> 4130 down each side, this was my weld barrel . Next I got the forkends
> from a hotrod magazine ( 1/2" rolled threads rod ends for model A Ford)
> at a total cost of $6.00 per unit.
> I gave one to a friend of mine that owns a machine shop, I asked him to
> destroy it for me. He brought it back a few days latter and said
> theres no reason for him to tear up his macherey on it, so we believe
> its strong enough for the Piet.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
What cam are you using in your engine?
Doug
> From: Wkoucky(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Corvair Authority
> Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 6:32 AM
>
> In a message dated 5/4/99 10:28:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> randy(at)icomnet.com writes:
>
> << Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > << I am trying to contact William Wynne re his rebuild manual. The
only
> > number I have is a 1-500 number inaccessable from Canada. Any one
have a
> > real number I can call?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -=Ian=- >>
> >
> > I have been trying his number for weeks. Only a machine answers. I
have
> > left about six messages, all unanswered. I have the manual and have
been
> in
> > contact with William many times. I do not know what is up. I will
mail
> his
> > number when I get back to my computer.
> >
> > William Koucky
> I have also attempted to contact him and failed to get a reply. I even
> sent a letter by snail mail with a s.a.s.e. requesting a price list.
> This was over 6 weeks ago and haven't received anything. My $$$$ will
> be spent elsewhere.
> >>
> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
> I have to say that the manual is worth the money and dealing with William
has
> been great (when I was able to reach him). He helped me in all areas. I
have
> tried to call and will try again. His number is 904-426-6028. I
thought it
> was because of Sun n Fun. He is a busy guy. I have been waiting for him
to
> return my call to answer a question so I can finish my assembly. I find
that
> asking the question on VirtualVairs is worth while,too.
>
> William Koucky
> Traverse City, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lpasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
Dear Sirs,
Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on a GN-1
with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this. I'd
appreciate your help.
Larry Pasley
> Ian Holland wrote:
> >
> > The machine is on the gear and I have been following the discussion on
> > the 3/4 X 2 1/2 inch lift strut with great interest. Along these lines,
> > I am wanting to install adjustable fittings on each strut to allow
> > dihedral adjustment and wash out adjustment (also to make flight tuning
> > easier).
> >
> > The question is " what are folks using to do this?" I look at the
> > catelogues and see prices starting at $100 per attachment. With the
> > scrounging, experimental expertise out there in the Piet community,
> > someone must have a better way. Care to share it?
> >
> > On the gear with the centre wing section and wires on, the machine is
> > starting to look impressive. I also am in the process of tearing apart a
> > Corvair motor, 1997 vintage.
> > Best regards,
> > -=Ian=-
>
> Ian:
>
> I've got about six strut forks ,they are the cut type but a heck of a
> lot of Cubs have flown on cut threads over the years ( they look like
> they are in fine shape.) Got them from my Uncle who was a Piper Cub
> builder years ago . I'll only need two of them. If you have a hard
> time finding what you need, E-Mail me and I'll let you have a couple if
> you need em. I'm scrounging for cables, pulleys, bungees etc now too.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bert E-Mail: BWM(at)planttel.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke shut off |
Steve,
Before you get rid of all those hats I better ask a question. Did you get
my check I sent about 3 weeks ago? I haven't seen a hat here and I am
getting worried.
Ted
Naples, FL
>
>My shut off system is very complex. Might take a long post to describe it,
>but I'll try.
>
>When my smoke bottle isn't connected,
>
>1/4" bolt shoved in the tube.
>
>PS. They send me Canopus 68 -Useless it is thick as molasas. Alas, back
>to the drawing board.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of Ted
>> Brousseau
>> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 9:27 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Sorry Folks, was RE: Piet hats.
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I just thought you were trying to sell 3 hats so you sent a
>> message for each
>> one.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off
>> at the fire wall
>> so that exhaust doesn't come back through the "oil line" when
>> you disconect
>> the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly
>> around smoking
>> ALL the time!!
>>
>>
>> >What a blooming idiot. Here I am unintentionally spamming
>> my own list.
>> >
>> >Beg you pardon.
>> >
>> >Steve Eldredge
>> >IT Services
>> >Brigham Young University
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of
>> >> steve(at)byu.edu
>> >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:32 AM
>> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >> Subject: RE: Piet hats.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The hats are done and look great I have 3 left of the $18
>> >> version (low and
>> >> slow on the back) if you are still interested. Add $2
>> >> shipping per order
>> >>
>> >> Best Regards,
>> >> Steve Eldredge
>> >> 1005 E 620 N
>> >> Provo UT 84606
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Steve Eldredge
>> >> IT Services
>> >> Brigham Young University
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > Behalf Of Les
>> >> > Lampman
>> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:17 PM
>> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >> > Subject: RE: Piet hats.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Steve,
>> >> >
>> >> > Not sure if my first message made it through. New to the
>> >> > mailing list.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd like to sign up for a hat, low & Slow on the back
>> sounds good.
>> >> >
>> >> > Les Lampman
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Staining Longerons |
Hi Guys
Ive got a weeks holidays comming up, and am going to use it building my fuse
woodwork. I've been thinking of using Minwax on the longerons and
crossmembers to get the cockpit to match the planed color scheme. My own
tests have shown no problem with glueing strength (T88 and LePages Epoxy),
and weight increase on a 12" x1"x1" could not be measured on a postal scale.
Anyone have experience with longer term or hi temp effects of using stain ?
All the wood aircraft I have ever seen are varnish only, so am I missing
something, or just the only one nutty enough to think of it ?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <DonanClara(at)aol.com> |
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:07 PM
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
> Mike, I don't know what a .jpg format picture is and whether you're
> referring to snail or E-mail but would sure like to see anything you have
> that shows meyours works. I have an anti-torque devise on mine that was
> designed by a friend but feel there might be room for improvement. Easier
to
> make changes now, if needed, than later.!! Thanks, Don
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Authority |
in the dec 1970 issue of sport aviation, an article by Bud Rinker states the
following;;
base engine--------200 to 220
add cooling fan----add 20
base engine w/gearbox---add 25
add cooling fan-----------add 20
add starter & alternator---add 30 to 40
hope this helped you
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
dean dayton wrote:
> Does anybody know what a corvair engine weighs when installed in a Piet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Brakes on Jenny style straight axles |
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike; how much travel did you allow with the stop cable?
>>
>
John- My guess is about 6 to 8 inches.
>
>>
>> I was wondering how loose the fit would have to be, so that the axle
>> could tilt and allow one side to move more relative to the other?
>
Good point. I just got two sizes of 4130 tubing that fit inside one another
with a little play. Can't
tell you what sizes I used at the moment, but they are fairly tight. In the
real world my axle only moves
mabye 3/4" up when taxiing and maybe 1" on a really hard landing.
Mike C.
Mike; how much travel did you allow with the
stop cable?
John- My guess is about 6 to 8 inches.
I was wondering how loose the fit would
have to be, so that the axle could tilt and allow one side to move more
relative to the other?Good point.
I just got two sizes of 4130 tubing that fit inside one another with a
little play. Can't
tell you what sizes I used at the moment, but they are fairly
tight. In the real world my axle only moves
mabye 3/4 up when taxiing and maybe 1 on a really hard
landing.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Dear Sirs,
>Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on a GN-1
>with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this. I'd
>appreciate your help.
>Larry Pasley
Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and rig Cubs, Champs,
etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the wingtip. I guess
it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
Mike C.
Dear Sirs,
Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on a
GN-1
with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this.
I'd
appreciate your help.
Larry Pasley
Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and rig
Cubs, Champs,
etc.) suggested I put 3/8 washout about 3 ribs in from the
wingtip. I guess
it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hats not Hatz |
Hi Richard,
I haven't forgotten about getting you some Hatz addresses, Just been swamped
here at work and haven't remembered to do it while at home. Will get them to
you soon. By the way, it would be quite a trip for you but Biplane Expo is
coming June 4-5. Bartlesville OK, N.E corner of OK. It's a national Biplane
Assoc. event. Lots of Hatz Nutz
will bow there plus Stearmans etc.
Tnx,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 4:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hats not Hatz
>That'd be great. I need to log some more X/C time before my big trip
>to OSH in July.
>
>--- Mike Cunningham wrote:
>> Richard, your gonna need your right arm too fly your Piet! I just
>> took a
>> look through my American Hatz Assoc. roster and don't see anybody in
>> Maine.
>> There are some members in CT, NY, PA, etc. If you like I will email
>> you
>> some info on them. Maybe you can take a 172 down their way.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richard DeCosta
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 11:04 AM
>> Subject: RE: Hats not Hatz
>>
>>
>> >I'd give my right arm for a ride in a Hatz. Any of you guy near
>> Maine?
>> >
>> >Careful you guys, we Hatz builders are lurking out here :-)
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 8:06 PM
>> >Subject: Hats not Hatz
>> >
>> >
>> >>Steve: I got my hat today, It is even nicer than you described!!
>> This
>> >>thing should last forever. Thanks!
>> >>
>> >>John Duprey
>> >
>> >
>> >===
>> >My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>> >....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and
>> be at
>> rest. -Psalm 55:6
>> >---------------------------------------------------------
>> >Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>> >---------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>===
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at
rest. -Psalm 55:6
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: corvair stuff |
To Walt Evans,
Hi Walt. I'd like to take you up on your offer of Dick Lawson's phone
number and address. Thanks.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> for Tom Bowdler and everyone,
> A few days ago you mentioned Bob Schiffel. I just got off the phone
> with my " mentor" Dick Lawson. Dick built Bob's corvair engine. This
> is unique because it has a reduction drive on it that Dick Lawson had
> fabricated with his own aluminum castings, machined to his own specs.
> He has two of these on planes.
> Dick had mentioned tonite that , when he made some parts , he made an
> extra. He has a prop hub for corvair, and a cutdown flywheel hsg. if
> anyone is interested.
> Dick is a special guy, he is in his 70's, sharp as a tack, is a
> toolmaker by trade, licenced AP. Even has corvair engine stuff around.
=
> He can even fabricate special parts,without cleaning out your wallet.
> His first love is airplanes.
> If anyone is interested I can give phone # , or even address.
> walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
<< What cam are you using in your engine?
Doug
>>
I am using a stock,reground cam on William Wynnes advice. He said that the
other cams available are not worth spending the cash on, on a high drag plane
like a piet. He said that he didn't think that it would improve the
performance.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ragan, Lawrence M." <Ragan.Lawrence(at)mayo.edu> |
William
Did you use any of Wynne's component's? I had the opportunity to stop and
visit with him about 6 months ago and he had lot of things related to
Corvair's, (cranks, prop hubs, etc.). He seemed to be very knowledgeable,
(I'm not sure I know enough to judge), and I had planned to utilize his
resources. I may try to go down there (about 2 hrs south) and see him again
if I can get in contact with him.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pschultz(at)uplogon.com (Paul Schultz) |
I found excellent plans for a modular workbench at
http://www.aircamper.org/WorkTables.cfm but have a few questions:
1. The article suggests using "5/8ths inch particle board top covered with
Formica for the work surface" and the addendum article for the work surface
suggests: "use one or two thicknesses of 7/16" chipboard (or OSB). While it
doesn't look pretty, it doesn't seem to warp like plywood." and further
down in the plans suggests using "3/4" Sanded Exterior Plywood" for the
work surface. Any recommendations which to use for a good solid flat
worksurface?
2. A friend I met at Broadhead last year suggested a 4" border around the
workbench surface for clamping. This would result in a 16" x 52" footprint
instead of the 24" x 60" in the plans. Would 16" make the workbench too
tippy? Perhaps a solution would be to add a 2x4 to the bottom section of
each of the legs which would result in a 19" width at the bottom or maybe
just a horizontal 2x4x60" screwed to the bottom between the two legs.
Sincerely,
Paul Schultz
Iron Mountain, MI
pschultz(at)uplogon.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Smoke shut off |
Ted thanks for the heads up (no pun intended) I have replied privately.
STevee
> Behalf Of Ted
> Brousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 8:08 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Smoke shut off
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Before you get rid of all those hats I better ask a question.
> Did you get
> my check I sent about 3 weeks ago? I haven't seen a hat here and I am
> getting worried.
>
> Ted
> Naples, FL
>
> >
> >My shut off system is very complex. Might take a long post
> to describe it,
> >but I'll try.
> >
> >When my smoke bottle isn't connected,
> >
> >1/4" bolt shoved in the tube.
> >
> >PS. They send me Canopus 68 -Useless it is thick as
> molasas. Alas, back
> >to the drawing board.
> >
> >Steve Eldredge
> >IT Services
> >Brigham Young University
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Behalf Of Ted
> >> Brousseau
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 9:27 PM
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Subject: Re: Sorry Folks, was RE: Piet hats.
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >>
> >> I just thought you were trying to sell 3 hats so you sent a
> >> message for each
> >> one.
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> P.S. Do you (any one else that is smoking) have a shut off
> >> at the fire wall
> >> so that exhaust doesn't come back through the "oil line" when
> >> you disconect
> >> the rubber hose and supply? I am assuming that you don't fly
> >> around smoking
> >> ALL the time!!
> >>
> >>
> >> >What a blooming idiot. Here I am unintentionally spamming
> >> my own list.
> >> >
> >> >Beg you pardon.
> >> >
> >> >Steve Eldredge
> >> >IT Services
> >> >Brigham Young University
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> steve(at)byu.edu
> >> >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:32 AM
> >> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> >> Subject: RE: Piet hats.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The hats are done and look great I have 3 left of the $18
> >> >> version (low and
> >> >> slow on the back) if you are still interested. Add $2
> >> >> shipping per order
> >> >>
> >> >> Best Regards,
> >> >> Steve Eldredge
> >> >> 1005 E 620 N
> >> >> Provo UT 84606
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve Eldredge
> >> >> IT Services
> >> >> Brigham Young University
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > Behalf Of Les
> >> >> > Lampman
> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:17 PM
> >> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> >> > Subject: RE: Piet hats.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi Steve,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Not sure if my first message made it through. New to the
> >> >> > mailing list.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'd like to sign up for a hat, low & Slow on the back
> >> sounds good.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Les Lampman
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
What specifications were used to reground the stock cam?? I've always heard
the 95 H.P. cam should be substituted into the 110 H.p. engine.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
<< What cam are you using in your engine?
Doug
>>
I am using a stock,reground cam on William Wynnes advice. He said that the
other cams available are not worth spending the cash on, on a high drag
plane
like a piet. He said that he didn't think that it would improve the
performance.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Paul,
You might want also to consider MDF (medium density fiberboard). Its very
common in cabinet making and your local building materials store should have
it. From my experience, its the ultimate in flat surfaces. Also, in its
thickness, its very resistant to compression, so I wouldn't hesitate
clamping to it. You would need to put some type of solid edge on it though,
just something to protect it, and then put a laminate surface on it. The
edge banding can be very thin and still be amply effective.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> I found excellent plans for a modular workbench at
> http://www.aircamper.org/WorkTables.cfm but have a few questions:
>
> 1. The article suggests using "5/8ths inch particle board top covered
with
> Formica for the work surface" and the addendum article for the work
surface
> suggests: "use one or two thicknesses of 7/16" chipboard (or OSB). While
it
> doesn't look pretty, it doesn't seem to warp like plywood." and further
> down in the plans suggests using "3/4" Sanded Exterior Plywood" for the
> work surface. Any recommendations which to use for a good solid flat
> worksurface?
>
> 2. A friend I met at Broadhead last year suggested a 4" border around the
> workbench surface for clamping. This would result in a 16" x 52"
footprint
> instead of the 24" x 60" in the plans. Would 16" make the workbench too
> tippy? Perhaps a solution would be to add a 2x4 to the bottom section of
> each of the legs which would result in a 19" width at the bottom or maybe
> just a horizontal 2x4x60" screwed to the bottom between the two legs.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Paul Schultz
>
> Iron Mountain, MI
> pschultz(at)uplogon.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
Larry,
If you're able to make contact with William Wynne, would you let us know if
he's still in business. I'm one of the ones who sent a check (hasn't been
cashed yet) and are still waiting for the conversion manual. Thanks.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> William
>
> Did you use any of Wynne's component's? I had the opportunity to stop
and
> visit with him about 6 months ago and he had lot of things related to
> Corvair's, (cranks, prop hubs, etc.). He seemed to be very
knowledgeable,
> (I'm not sure I know enough to judge), and I had planned to utilize his
> resources. I may try to go down there (about 2 hrs south) and see him
again
> if I can get in contact with him.
>
> Larry Ragan
> Jacksonville, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
Me too. I'm real interested in the manual, but get a voice mail at the
land number (thanks) that has exhausted the recording tape.
Alternate.... Has any one got a copy of the manual that they are done
with, and want to recover the dollars spent? If so, I will buy it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ragan, Lawrence M." <Ragan.Lawrence(at)mayo.edu> |
Mark,
It may take me several weeks before I even have a chance to go down there,
but given the chance, I'll get in touch with Wynne , and I'll keep you
posted.
P.S. Did you have Wynne's most recent ('99) conversion manual, and if so,
what'd you think?
Larry Ragan
Jax, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
This is what I'm using. Originally, I didn't have anything protecting it.
However, while I was building the canoe, I used to dump out the remains of
the mixed epoxy resign on the bench surface and ended up with a rather
hard surface. Since the resign would have been wasted anyway, it didn't
cost me anything.
Ken
On Thu, 6 May 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
> Paul,
>
> You might want also to consider MDF (medium density fiberboard). Its very
> common in cabinet making and your local building materials store should have
> it. From my experience, its the ultimate in flat surfaces. Also, in its
> thickness, its very resistant to compression, so I wouldn't hesitate
> clamping to it. You would need to put some type of solid edge on it though,
> just something to protect it, and then put a laminate surface on it. The
> edge banding can be very thin and still be amply effective.
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, Arizona
>
>
> > I found excellent plans for a modular workbench at
> > http://www.aircamper.org/WorkTables.cfm but have a few questions:
> >
> > 1. The article suggests using "5/8ths inch particle board top covered
> with
> > Formica for the work surface" and the addendum article for the work
> surface
> > suggests: "use one or two thicknesses of 7/16" chipboard (or OSB). While
> it
> > doesn't look pretty, it doesn't seem to warp like plywood." and further
> > down in the plans suggests using "3/4" Sanded Exterior Plywood" for the
> > work surface. Any recommendations which to use for a good solid flat
> > worksurface?
> >
> > 2. A friend I met at Broadhead last year suggested a 4" border around the
>
> > workbench surface for clamping. This would result in a 16" x 52"
> footprint
> > instead of the 24" x 60" in the plans. Would 16" make the workbench too
> > tippy? Perhaps a solution would be to add a 2x4 to the bottom section of
>
> > each of the legs which would result in a 19" width at the bottom or maybe
>
> > just a horizontal 2x4x60" screwed to the bottom between the two legs.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Paul Schultz
> >
> > Iron Mountain, MI
> > pschultz(at)uplogon.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Larry, If you manage to hook up with Wynne, can you let me know if he is
still in business? I would like to get ahold of his rebuild manual
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: corvair stuff |
Mark,
Sure, His phone is 973-383-7821 in northern NJ. I know where he lives,
but don't know his exact mailing address. You can get it from him.
He is a day person, not a night person, so I usually like to call him before
walt
PS By the way, there was some pics on the Pietenpol web page of a guy in
Brodhead standing behind a two cylinder engine ,in old garb , I think titled
"HAHAHAHA" Well , Dick Lawson built the crankshaft for this motor and
rebuilt it to run like it did.
He's quite a guy.
If you or anyone wants to see these pics, I can put them on the
AirCamper.org/users/wevans site
-----Original Message-----
From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Date: Thursday, May 06, 1999 11:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair stuff
>To Walt Evans,
>
>Hi Walt. I'd like to take you up on your offer of Dick Lawson's phone
>number and address. Thanks.
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, Arizona
>
>
>> for Tom Bowdler and everyone,
>> A few days ago you mentioned Bob Schiffel. I just got off the phone
>> with my " mentor" Dick Lawson. Dick built Bob's corvair engine. This
>> is unique because it has a reduction drive on it that Dick Lawson had
>> fabricated with his own aluminum castings, machined to his own specs.
>> He has two of these on planes.
>> Dick had mentioned tonite that , when he made some parts , he made an
>> extra. He has a prop hub for corvair, and a cutdown flywheel hsg. if
>> anyone is interested.
>> Dick is a special guy, he is in his 70's, sharp as a tack, is a
>> toolmaker by trade, licenced AP. Even has corvair engine stuff around.
>=
>> He can even fabricate special parts,without cleaning out your wallet.
>> His first love is airplanes.
>> If anyone is interested I can give phone # , or even address.
>> walt evans
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
At an Oshkosh forum a few years ago, Vi Kapler advised a 3/8" washout
for better stall warning. He went on to that this was his opinion and
that Bernie Pietenpol never used any washout.
Dean Dayton
dayton(at)netwalk.com
Michael Cuy wrote:
> >Dear Sirs,
> >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on a
> GN-1
> >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this. I'd
> >appreciate your help.
> >Larry Pasley
>
> Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and rig
> Cubs, Champs,
> etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the wingtip.
> I guess
> it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> Mike C.
At an Oshkosh forum a few years ago, Vi Kapler advised a 3/8" washout for
better stall warning. He went on to that this was his opinion and
that Bernie Pietenpol never used any washout.
Dean Dayton
dayton(at)netwalk.com
Michael Cuy wrote:
>Dear Sirs,
>Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on
a GN-1
>with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this. I'd
>appreciate your help.
>Larry Pasley
Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
rig Cubs, Champs,
etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the wingtip.
I guess
it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nahuel Garavaglia <ngarav(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi!,
Did anybody have information about mounting a subaru ea65 engine on a
piet?
And anybody have plans to build a reduction for a subaru ea81?
thanks
===
Nahuel Garavaglia
ngarav(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nahuel Garavaglia <ngarav(at)yahoo.com> |
Did any have info about mounting car engines like:
DATSUN L20
VW 2000 (Equiped on golf)
Fiat Engines
Renault Engines
===
Nahuel Garavaglia
ngarav(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lpasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's appreciated. Now
I'll try to get it set up right.
Larry
> >Dear Sirs,
> >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be - on a GN-1
> >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this. I'd
> >appreciate your help.
> >Larry Pasley
>
> Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and rig Cubs,
> Champs,
> etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the wingtip. I
guess
> it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Peck <crusader(at)thegrid.net> |
Steve , I would like to unsubcribe from the list for a while as summer
has seemed to have created more projects than I need !
phil
--
Check out Crusader Toys @
http://www.Crusadertoys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
I thought that washout was to keep your tips from stalling before
your wing root and therefore provide a modicum of spin protection
and stability at the start of a stall. If you want an aerobatic
Peietenpol (oxymoron) then you would bend your tips up a little
instead and promote tip stalling. NASA designed a wing with a
more aggressive airfoil at the tips that was "spin proof". I
wonder why I've never seen it on a production or experimental
aircraft?
I haven't received my plans yet. How do you set washout on the
Piet? Is it built in or do you tighten and loosen support/drag
cables?
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
lpasley on 05/06/99 10:41:01 PM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: washout
Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's
appreciated. Now
I'll try to get it set up right.
Larry
> >Dear Sirs,
> >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be
- on a GN-1
> >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this.
I'd
> >appreciate your help.
> >Larry Pasley
>
> Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
rig Cubs,
> Champs,
> etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the
wingtip. I
guess
> it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
Speaking of stalling, can anybody out there talk about the stall
characteristics of the Pietenpol Aircamper? Mush? sudden break? buffet?,
drops a wing?, etc? Anybody ever spin their piet either intentionally or
accidentally? Standard recovery procedures work?
Joe
>From: Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: washout
>Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 08:52:06 -0400
>
>
>I thought that washout was to keep your tips from stalling before
>your wing root and therefore provide a modicum of spin protection
>and stability at the start of a stall. If you want an aerobatic
>Peietenpol (oxymoron) then you would bend your tips up a little
>instead and promote tip stalling. NASA designed a wing with a
>more aggressive airfoil at the tips that was "spin proof". I
>wonder why I've never seen it on a production or experimental
>aircraft?
>
>I haven't received my plans yet. How do you set washout on the
>Piet? Is it built in or do you tighten and loosen support/drag
>cables?
>
>Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
>Columbia, SC
>
>
>lpasley on 05/06/99 10:41:01 PM
>
>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>cc:
>Subject: Re: washout
>
>
>Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's
>appreciated. Now
>I'll try to get it set up right.
>Larry
>
>----------
> > >Dear Sirs,
> > >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be
>- on a GN-1
> > >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this.
>I'd
> > >appreciate your help.
> > >Larry Pasley
> >
> > Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
>rig Cubs,
> > Champs,
> > etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the
>wingtip. I
>guess
> > it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> > Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I am a little confused on this one. I have flown quite a few
hours in several Ercoupes which are highly spin resistant.
The basics of spin resistance are:
1) Wing tips are always LAST to stall. This insures
controllability with stall occuring. Because of the
greater moment arm at the tips, should one wing
tip be producing lift while the other is not, greater
spin tendancy will be present. Whereas if it is the
wing roots which are causing the differential lift,
spin tendacy will be less.
With the tips being last to stall, the control surfaces
will be still be effective with the start of a stall.
Methods for this are:
2) Limited elevator down force capability will prevent
deep stall of the main wing. An Ercoupe is never
really able to deep stall the main wing much past
the middle root portion (non-accelerated stalls).
It is really neat to demonstrate - yoke all the way
back, decending about 600 fpm, but full control
useage and about 50 mph on the airspeed.
Get a CFI with you, and in a C152 and C172, you
can get a 152 to marginally stay stable if you keep
ball centered with the rudder, but a spin will happen
quickly with a little more induced stall with power
to push the tail down or just kick the rudder a little.
A C172 is another animal. It has a little more
elevator and well, you know the rest of the story.
You can get more main wing stall with it and quicker
results.
3) Dihedral angle can help, but not always true.
I would be interested in reading the sources, if you
happen to know where to find them. I believe the above
will most likely be the reason why you will ALWAYS see
wings with methods implemented for the tips to stall last.
Remember - No plane will stall-spin unless a stall occurs first!
(Only for a CFI license does one ever have to show
proof of spinning an airplane for a license certificate...)
David Scott
Washington, IL
Mike Bell wrote:
> I thought that washout was to keep your tips from stalling before
> your wing root and therefore provide a modicum of spin protection
> and stability at the start of a stall. If you want an aerobatic
> Peietenpol (oxymoron) then you would bend your tips up a little
> instead and promote tip stalling. NASA designed a wing with a
> more aggressive airfoil at the tips that was "spin proof". I
> wonder why I've never seen it on a production or experimental
> aircraft?
>
> I haven't received my plans yet. How do you set washout on the
> Piet? Is it built in or do you tighten and loosen support/drag
> cables?
>
> Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
> Columbia, SC
>
> lpasley on 05/06/99 10:41:01 PM
>
> Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> cc:
> Subject: Re: washout
>
> Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's
> appreciated. Now
> I'll try to get it set up right.
> Larry
>
> ----------
> > >Dear Sirs,
> > >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be
> - on a GN-1
> > >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this.
> I'd
> > >appreciate your help.
> > >Larry Pasley
> >
> > Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
> rig Cubs,
> > Champs,
> > etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the
> wingtip. I
> guess
> > it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> > Mike C.
--
---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7
/--------------------\ |~~\_____/~~\__ |
|scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~\|~~~ |
I am a little confused on this one. I have flown quite a few
hours in several Ercoupes which are highly spin resistant.
The basics of spin resistance are:
1) Wing tips are always LAST to stall.
This insures
controllability
with stall occuring. Because of the
greater moment
arm at the tips, should one wing
tip be producing
lift while the other is not, greater
spin tendancy
will be present. Whereas if it is the
wing roots which
are causing the differential lift,
spin tendacy
will be less.
With the tips
being last to stall, the control surfaces
will be still
be effective with the start of a stall.
Methods for this
are:
- angle of incidence less at the tips (washout)
- airfoil effectivity less at the tips (size, area, etc..)
- rectangular wing plan form (top view of wing)
- negative angle control surfaces
(move upward more than down)
2) Limited elevator down force capability
will prevent
deep stall of
the main wing. An Ercoupe is never
really able
to deep stall the main wing much past
the middle root
portion (non-accelerated stalls).
It is really
neat to demonstrate - yoke all the way
back, decending
about 600 fpm, but full control
useage and about
50 mph on the airspeed.
Get a CFI with
you, and in a C152 and C172, you
can get a 152
to marginally stay stable if you keep
ball centered
with the rudder, but a spin will happen
quickly with
a little more induced stall with power
to push the
tail down or just kick the rudder a little.
A C172 is another
animal. It has a little more
elevator and
well, you know the rest of the story.
You can get
more main wing stall with it and quicker
results.
3) Dihedral angle can help, but not always
true.
Sometimes
it actually worsens the tendancy for
single wing deep stall.
I would be interested in reading the sources, if you
happen to know where to find them. I believe the above
will most likely be the reason why you will ALWAYSsee
wings with methods implemented for the tips to stall last.
Remember - No plane will stall-spin unless a stall occurs first!
(Only for a CFIlicense does one ever
have to show
proof of spinning
an airplane for a license certificate...)
David Scott
Washington, IL
Mike Bell wrote:
I thought that washout was to keep your tips from
stalling before
your wing root and therefore provide a modicum of spin protection
and stability at the start of a stall. If you want an aerobatic
Peietenpol (oxymoron) then you would bend your tips up a little
instead and promote tip stalling. NASA designed a
wing with a
more aggressive airfoil at the tips that was "spin proof". I
wonder why I've never seen it on a production or experimental
aircraft?
I haven't received my plans yet. How do you set washout on the
Piet? Is it built in or do you tighten and loosen support/drag
cables?
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
lpasley lpasley(at)aristotle.net> on 05/06/99 10:41:01 PM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
To: Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: washout
Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's
appreciated. Now
I'll try to get it set up right.
Larry
> >Dear Sirs,
> >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could be
- on a GN-1
> >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on this.
I'd
> >appreciate your help.
> >Larry Pasley
>
> Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
rig Cubs,
> Champs,
> etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the
wingtip. I
guess
> it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> Mike C.
--
---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7
/--------------------\ |~~\_____/~~\__ |
|DAVID SCOTT |______ \______====== )-+
|scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~\|~~~ |
\--------------------/ (O)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CORVAIR AND Wm Wynne |
<< Did you use any of Wynne's component's? I had the opportunity to stop and
visit with him about 6 months ago and he had lot of things related to
Corvair's, (cranks, prop hubs, etc.). He seemed to be very knowledgeable,
(I'm not sure I know enough to judge), and I had planned to utilize his
resources. I may try to go down there (about 2 hrs south) and see him again
if I can get in contact with him.
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl. >>
He sold me a block with the crank and cam together for a very good price.
The block was already helicoiled for new studs. I bought new upper studs
from him. The studs go in too easy (fingers). The question I had for him is
about the fit of these studs. I can't get an answer and the fit does not
seem right. The studs do not go in straight either. I don't know if this is
a problem or not. The block came with the bell housing already cut and in
place. The crank was threaded. He does seem very knowledgable to me, too
and easy to work with. I just wish I could get in contact as I have
everything else ready to go.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
To all:
Has anyone done any research on aluminum v. wood spars. I'm curious about
feasability, weight, cost, strength, compatability with wooden ribs, and any
other pertinent issues that should be raised. I know that Wag-Aero offers
this option with their Cub-like kits.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: '99 Wynne manual |
Larry,
I was unaware that he has a newer version of his manual. All I have right
now is the hope that he's still in business. I hope you get a chance to
make contact with him. Let us know. Thanks.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> Mark,
>
> It may take me several weeks before I even have a chance to go down
there,
> but given the chance, I'll get in touch with Wynne , and I'll keep you
> posted.
> P.S. Did you have Wynne's most recent ('99) conversion manual, and if so,
> what'd you think?
> Larry Ragan
> Jax, Fl.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello
I haven't been following the entire thread, I may have missed some thing
but you would an
Ercoupe have no aileron control during landing in a cross wind? I owned
a 1946 Ercoupe for 10
years, few it many hundreds of hours and it was the easiest airplane I
ever landed in a cross wind.
The aileron were coupled to the rudder, no cross control to prevent
stalling. All you had to do was
get your ground track strait down the runway, forget about were the nose
was pointed. Once down
the on the mains, point the nose down the runway, easy. The stalls are
very mild. I could pull the
power all the way off, pull the wheel/stick all the way back and mush
down with full aileron
control. I loved my Ercoupe, hope to have another one once I get my Piet
finished.
Mike Madrid
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: washout
A friend has an Ercoupe that he likes quite a lot. Partly
because he can open the canopy while cruising. I never asked him
what it's like to land in a cross wind with no aileron controls.
So, what's it like to land in a cross wind with no aileron
controls??? It's also a really neat looking plane. I think he
bought his for only about $12,000 and it looks like a lot of
plane for the money. I think that I like it also because it was
built the same year I was, 1946.
I think you reversed one thing below. Airfoils must be more
effective at the tip, not less to prevent stall spins.
Plan form of the wing certainly affects stall characteristics -
the elipitical is referred to as the "perfect" plan form, in that
it stalls evenly from tip to root. I don't know if that's
perfect or not. Unless I get into aerobatics (not likely with a
Piet) I think I would greatly prefer a plane that stalls at the
roots first and the tips last. I think that swept back wings
also tip stall earlier. I don't remember why???
I find really good explanations of general aerodynamics in books
that are sold for the model aircraft market. They seem to cover
a lot more design detail without becoming an outright engineering
treatise that I seem to find so hard to digest in full sized
aircraft design texts. Andy Lennon is the author of one that
I've gotten a whole lot of understanding from. I can't remember
the name, but it should be easy to find by author. His book is
the one that I learned about the NASA wing design from that I
mentioned. I have another book at home that is pretty good that
is also titled as a model aircraft book, The main difference
seems to be that Reynold's Numbers are a lot more important when
dealing with small aircraft. Also, if you make a mistake with a
model and the design is unstable, you always walk away from the
crash. I'll try to remember to send the author and title later.
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
David Scott on 05/07/99 10:42:17 AM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
To: Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Re: washout
I am a little confused on this one. I have flown quite a few
hours in several Ercoupes which are highly spin resistant.
The basics of spin resistance are:
1) Wing tips are always LAST to stall. This insures
etc..)
2) Limited elevator down force capability will prevent
3) Dihedral angle can help, but not always true.
I would be interested in reading the sources, if you
happen to know where to find them. I believe the above
will most likely be the reason why you will ALWAYS see
wings with methods implemented for the tips to stall last.
Remember - No plane will stall-spin unless a stall occurs first!
(Only for a CFI license does one ever have to show
certificate...)
David Scott
Washington, IL
Mike Bell wrote:
> I thought that washout was to keep your tips from stalling
before
> your wing root and therefore provide a modicum of spin
protection
> and stability at the start of a stall. If you want an
aerobatic
> Peietenpol (oxymoron) then you would bend your tips up a little
> instead and promote tip stalling. NASA designed a wing with
a
> more aggressive airfoil at the tips that was "spin proof". I
> wonder why I've never seen it on a production or experimental
> aircraft?
>
> I haven't received my plans yet. How do you set washout on the
> Piet? Is it built in or do you tighten and loosen support/drag
> cables?
>
> Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
> Columbia, SC
>
> lpasley on 05/06/99 10:41:01 PM
>
> Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> cc:
> Subject: Re: washout
>
> Thanks to you and Dean Dalton for the information. It's
> appreciated. Now
> I'll try to get it set up right.
> Larry
>
> ----------
> > >Dear Sirs,
> > >Can anyone tell me what wing wash out should be - or could
be
> - on a GN-1
> > >with no dihedral? I'm having a time finding anything on
this.
> I'd
> > >appreciate your help.
> > >Larry Pasley
> >
> > Larry- the wise older gentlemen where I fly (who rebuild and
> rig Cubs,
> > Champs,
> > etc.) suggested I put 3/8" washout about 3 ribs in from the
> wingtip. I
> guess
> > it keeps the ailerons working longer as you begin to stall.
> > Mike C.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike, you want your tips to stall last so that you have good control in
slow flight (aelerons are still functional). I remember well that you
use rudder to lift a wing in a stall, not aelerons). An attempt to
recover with aelerons from a spin can delay or make recovery worse. If
the wing root stalls first, the break is more gradual, and recovery is
is easier (neutal aelerons). Any attempt to use aelerons to recover a
dropped wing at the stall causes a failure of your check ride. In
Canada, spin recovery is mandatory to get your licence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Contact with Wm. Wynne (sort of) |
In a message dated 5/6/99 3:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mboynton(at)excite.com writes:
<< Larry,
If you're able to make contact with William Wynne, would you let us know if
he's still in business. I'm one of the ones who sent a check (hasn't been
cashed yet) and are still waiting for the conversion manual. Thanks.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona >>
I just got the low down on whats going on. Seems that William Wynne is still
in business. He had some problem with a partner in the building he was in
and is moving. I had another phone number and I talked with a worker in the
other shop. He said he put a note on the door and I also had a message on
his machine. It seems as thou he has been moving stuff and has not had time
to return calls. I will get the low down on the new manual when I talk to
him, too. I expect to talk to him soon. I am telling him to call collect.
I think he has a number of people wanting to talk to him and he must have a
huge phone bill.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Contact with Wm. Wynne (sort of) |
William,
Thanks for the info.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> In a message dated 5/6/99 3:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mboynton(at)excite.com writes:
>
> << Larry,
>
> If you're able to make contact with William Wynne, would you let us know
if
> he's still in business. I'm one of the ones who sent a check (hasn't
been
> cashed yet) and are still waiting for the conversion manual. Thanks.
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, Arizona >>
>
>
> I just got the low down on whats going on. Seems that William Wynne is
still
> in business. He had some problem with a partner in the building he was in
> and is moving. I had another phone number and I talked with a worker in
the
> other shop. He said he put a note on the door and I also had a message on
> his machine. It seems as thou he has been moving stuff and has not had
time
> to return calls. I will get the low down on the new manual when I talk to
> him, too. I expect to talk to him soon. I am telling him to call
collect.
> I think he has a number of people wanting to talk to him and he must have
a
> huge phone bill.
>
> William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Joe,
I have about 1/4 of washout and have checked and rechecked alignment,
but the right wing will mush and drop before the left. No clue why. Not
a problem at all, I just know that's the way it is. It's a blast to slip
to the left. Full rudder. Wing down low and if the right wing starts to
drop a little just a couple hundred RPM picks it right up. To get into
trouble you'd really have to force it.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ragan, Lawrence M." <Ragan.Lawrence(at)mayo.edu> |
William,
Let me know if you get in touch with Wynne before Tues. I may drive down
there Tues p.m. If he has moved, I not sure of where to look for him. When
I met him last winter, he was partners in a co. that built Lancair IV's.
They had 8 planes in varying stages of completion in that one hangar. Very
impressive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
When building the 3 pc wing, is it a good idea to make sure the wings weigh
the same? Our chapter had a discussion about building composite aircraft
and it turns out that if you build one wing in the winter and the other in
the summer (no climate control) then one wing will weigh more.
Joe (reading the plans stage)
>From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: washout and stall
>Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:01:58 -0500
>
>Joe,
>
>I have about 1/4 of washout and have checked and rechecked alignment,
>but the right wing will mush and drop before the left. No clue why. Not
>a problem at all, I just know that's the way it is. It's a blast to slip
>to the left. Full rudder. Wing down low and if the right wing starts to
>drop a little just a couple hundred RPM picks it right up. To get into
>trouble you'd really have to force it.
>
>Craig
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Washout, stalls and spins.... |
To the group,
In 1970, when I completed my Pietenpol, I rigged the wings at
+2 degrees incidence and reduced this to +1 degree at the tip
rib.
Flew it that way for two years and then removed the one degree
of washout. Since then, the incidence angle is a constant +2
degrees. I cannot notice any difference in the power-off stalling
characteristics, which are about the same as those of a 65hp.
Aeronca Champion; a definite break with instantaneous recovery
upon moving the stick forward. My airplane tends to drop the right
wing first, but this is likely an individual characteristic, not typical
of Pietenpols.
I have done lots of spinning in ATC'd airplanes, but have never done
fully-developed spins in any homebuilt I have flown; only stalls and
incipient spins. If I am not sure about the spin characteristics of an
airplane, I'd rather avoid doing them at all, and practice spins and
recovery in airplanes with predictable spin behavior. I owned a Lus-
combe 8E for many years (until two years ago) and would go out at
least once a year and spin the dickens out of it. It loved to spin but,
being a certified standard category airplane, always behaved
predictably.
The Wag-A-Bond (Piper PA 17 Vagabond clone) I now have conforms
very closely with the PA 17 specification, including the large amount
of washout in the wings. In a power-off, unaccelerated stall it simply
mushes without a break and drop of the nose; one could mush all the
way to the ground by simply holding the stick fully back--but the high
rate of sink and the sudden stop at the bottom would get you.
As far as I know, BHP did not use washout, probably because the
rectangular wing planform tends to stall first at the center (or root),
progressing outward toward the wing tips which will (should?) stall
last. This is why I eliminated the washout from mine after flying it for
a couple of years.
I know of Pietenpols that have been spun, and of one case where the
pilot was barely able to recover from a spin that had flattened. This
only
reinforces my desire to avoid spinning any airplane with doubtful or un-
known spin behavior.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I think you have mistaken the "deep stall" phenomena. The deep stalls
are usually associated with T or high mounted vertical
stabalizers/elevators. The normal down pitch after a stall is due to the
fact that the elevator/stab is still capable of providing some
stabalizing force even after the wing has stopped producing lift. If, for
some reason, the stabalizer becomes ineffective, the plane will continue
to descend in a nose high, full stall attitude. This can occur on a T-tail
plane or any plane where the tail is 5-15 degrees above the chordline of
the wing. The turbulent air from the stalled wing will "mask " the
elevator and stabalizer making it ineffective. At this point, only
vigerous application of power, elevators and flaps can help break from the
stall.
You can see the result of this on an F-4 Phantom. Even though it's not a
T-tail, the delta wing and engine outlet put the root of the stabilators
in the deep stall position. You will note that the stabilators have a very
prnounced down angle to get them out of the wing shadow.
Actually, the prototype Canadair 601 Challenger was lost in just this
manner. The test plane had been equipped with an emergency drouge chute
attached to the last bulkhead inside the tailcone. Sure enough, a deep
stall developed and the test pilot fired the chute which pulled it out of
the stall. Unfortunately, the explosive bolts used to attach the chute to
the plane malfunctioned and the chute could not be cut. All of the crew
bailed out except the pilot. He almost recovered the plane but ran out of
height and impacted the desert floor. It was speculated that with another
300-500', he may have recovered enough to land it. The pilot was killed
instantly.
Ken
On Fri, 7 May 1999, David Scott wrote:
> 2) Limited elevator down force capability will prevent
>
>
> 3) Dihedral angle can help, but not always true.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
Yes and no. True, you hear all sorts of people complaining of a "heavy
wing". However, for the most part, these are wings that haven't been
rigged properly or have been built/rebuilt with a twist. our Cessna 180
has an 88 gallon fuel capacity, that's 44 per wing or 264 lbs. Even with
over 100 lbs differential between the wings (yeah, even with BOTH on the
selector, one tank always drains quicker) the difference in flight
characteristics is almost unnoticable. Heck, I've even flown with a 65 lb,
16' canoe strapped to one float and it still tracked almost perfect.
On the other hand, the PA-28 Cherokee had a distinct spin recovery
problem when the weight differential was too great. This prompted the
installation of "tabs" in the filler necks. If the fuel was above the
tabs, you don't spin. If the fuel is below the tabs, there is not enough
fuel in either tank to exceed the differential needed to duplicate the
problem.
However, I don't think that the few pounds in difference between the
structure of two wings will make much difference.
Ken
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Joe Krzes wrote:
> When building the 3 pc wing, is it a good idea to make sure the wings weigh
> the same? Our chapter had a discussion about building composite aircraft
> and it turns out that if you build one wing in the winter and the other in
> the summer (no climate control) then one wing will weigh more.
>
> Joe (reading the plans stage)
>
> >From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Re: washout and stall
> >Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:01:58 -0500
> >
> >Joe,
> >
> >I have about 1/4 of washout and have checked and rechecked alignment,
> >but the right wing will mush and drop before the left. No clue why. Not
> >a problem at all, I just know that's the way it is. It's a blast to slip
> >to the left. Full rudder. Wing down low and if the right wing starts to
> >drop a little just a couple hundred RPM picks it right up. To get into
> >trouble you'd really have to force it.
> >
> >Craig
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
In Canada,private pilots are trained in spins,and must demonstrate it on
your check ride.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engine |
Back when I was interested in the subaru engine for my ace, I looked into
re-drive plans, I never found any. But there is a company which makes a fine
quality re-drive for the subaru (soob).
http://www.mts.net/davejohn/index.html
>From: Nahuel Garavaglia <ngarav(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Subaru engine
>Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi!,
>Did anybody have information about mounting a subaru ea65 engine on a
>piet?
>
>And anybody have plans to build a reduction for a subaru ea81?
>
>thanks
>
>
>===
>Nahuel Garavaglia
>
>ngarav(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | FordPiet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Ford A Engine Comments |
David,
Reference your question about "Any suggestions on rebuilding as far as work
that I
*should* pay someone to do for your Model A engine?" It primarily depends on
your abilities, time, and resources. If you are a machinist, my guess is you
could do everything yourself. However, purchasing the molds to pour the
babbitt into, the reamers, line boring machine etc. would probably not be
cost effective for rebuilding only one or two engines.
If you are an average engine mechanic, you could have Jim or another A-Ford
engine shop, boil and clean the block, magniflux/check for cracks, have the
cylinders bored oversize, pour the babbitt, linebore the block, and your
could reassemble everything yourself. I wouldn't really recommend that
approach. I did something similar to that once and originally thought I
would be saving quite bit of money. I think I saved less than $100 dollars.
Jim can buy the pistons, rings, valves, springs, gears, gaskets etc.
wholesale -- I couldn't. It took me all summer working part time to get my
engine back together (different engine, I sold that truck). Like many
things the Ford engine is simple to work on, but it is a lot easier if you
start with one properly put together in the first place, rather than
assembling it yourself for the first time.
Caution, there are some parts that look good and will work fine for a static
display type engine. I.e. after-market valves etc. The original and quality
replacement parts will give you great service, but over the years (ever since
the 1930s) certain manufactures produced "look a like" copies that did not
offer the same performance. Jim, would know where the valves he was
installing came from and what their track record is. (I bought a set of
valves at a swap meet that look great -- new-old-replacement-stock (NORS) but
I wouldn't put them in my engine after all the articles I read on "bogus
parts" in the Model A Club magazines.
I hope that is of some help to you. If you are planning to significantly up
the horsepower on the Model A engine, I would recommend checking into having
the babbitt bearing replaced with more modern insert bearings. I don't think
Jim offers that, but babbitt works great for stock to slightly modified
engines. Chevy used babbitt bearings in their engines until 1953 (my dad had
one with babbitt bearings -- std trans and one with inserts the automatic
trans).
Don't forget to let Jim know what you plan to do with your engine. He may
have some helpful suggestions and recommendations. Also, I haven't had an
engine rebuilt since 1989, and they may have come up with some new thoughts
and/or cautions.
Good luck with your project, if I can be of any encouragement, please let me
know.
Hap
PS I changed my e-mail from haptucker(at)hotmail.com to FordPiet(at)aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
I took flying instruction from an elderly man in the Wentzville MO.
area, when I did stalls he made me keep the wings level with rudder
and to stay away from aileron saying that if a wing didn't have wash out
or was improperly rigged the ailerons could get you hurt
He claimed that if you praticed stalls using nothing but rudder
to keep the wings level it was a lot safer in a homebuilt or
some of the older factory planes.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 3:59 PM
Subject: Washout, stalls and spins....
To the group,
In 1970, when I completed my Pietenpol, I rigged the wings at
+2 degrees incidence and reduced this to +1 degree at the tip
rib.
Flew it that way for two years and then removed the one degree
of washout. Since then, the incidence angle is a constant +2
degrees. I cannot notice any difference in the power-off stalling
characteristics, which are about the same as those of a 65hp.
Aeronca Champion; a definite break with instantaneous recovery
upon moving the stick forward. My airplane tends to drop the right
wing first, but this is likely an individual characteristic, not
typical
of Pietenpols.
I have done lots of spinning in ATC'd airplanes, but have never done
fully-developed spins in any homebuilt I have flown; only stalls and
incipient spins. If I am not sure about the spin characteristics of
an
airplane, I'd rather avoid doing them at all, and practice spins and
recovery in airplanes with predictable spin behavior. I owned a Lus-
combe 8E for many years (until two years ago) and would go out at
least once a year and spin the dickens out of it. It loved to spin
but,
being a certified standard category airplane, always behaved
predictably.
The Wag-A-Bond (Piper PA 17 Vagabond clone) I now have conforms
very closely with the PA 17 specification, including the large
amount
of washout in the wings. In a power-off, unaccelerated stall it
simply
mushes without a break and drop of the nose; one could mush all the
way to the ground by simply holding the stick fully back--but the
high
rate of sink and the sudden stop at the bottom would get you.
As far as I know, BHP did not use washout, probably because the
rectangular wing planform tends to stall first at the center (or
root),
progressing outward toward the wing tips which will (should?) stall
last. This is why I eliminated the washout from mine after flying it
for
a couple of years.
I know of Pietenpols that have been spun, and of one case where the
pilot was barely able to recover from a spin that had flattened.
This only
reinforces my desire to avoid spinning any airplane with doubtful or
un-
known spin behavior.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
-----Original Message-----
From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Washout, stalls and spins....
I don't know Russell, but that method seems like a good way to get
into a spin to me.
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
I took flying instruction from an elderly man in the Wentzville MO.
area, when I did stalls he made me keep the wings level with rudder
and to stay away from aileron saying that if a wing didn't have wash
out
or was improperly rigged the ailerons could get you hurt
He claimed that if you praticed stalls using nothing but rudder
to keep the wings level it was a lot safer in a homebuilt or
some of the older factory planes.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 3:59 PM
Subject: Washout, stalls and spins....
To the group,
In 1970, when I completed my Pietenpol, I rigged the wings at
+2 degrees incidence and reduced this to +1 degree at the tip
rib.
Flew it that way for two years and then removed the one degree
of washout. Since then, the incidence angle is a constant +2
degrees. I cannot notice any difference in the power-off
stalling
characteristics, which are about the same as those of a 65hp.
Aeronca Champion; a definite break with instantaneous recovery
upon moving the stick forward. My airplane tends to drop the
right
wing first, but this is likely an individual characteristic, not
typical
of Pietenpols.
I have done lots of spinning in ATC'd airplanes, but have never
done
fully-developed spins in any homebuilt I have flown; only stalls
and
incipient spins. If I am not sure about the spin characteristics
of an
airplane, I'd rather avoid doing them at all, and practice spins
and
recovery in airplanes with predictable spin behavior. I owned a
Lus-
combe 8E for many years (until two years ago) and would go out
at
least once a year and spin the dickens out of it. It loved to
spin but,
being a certified standard category airplane, always behaved
predictably.
The Wag-A-Bond (Piper PA 17 Vagabond clone) I now have conforms
very closely with the PA 17 specification, including the large
amount
of washout in the wings. In a power-off, unaccelerated stall it
simply
mushes without a break and drop of the nose; one could mush all
the
way to the ground by simply holding the stick fully back--but
the high
rate of sink and the sudden stop at the bottom would get you.
As far as I know, BHP did not use washout, probably because the
rectangular wing planform tends to stall first at the center (or
root),
progressing outward toward the wing tips which will (should?)
stall
last. This is why I eliminated the washout from mine after
flying it for
a couple of years.
I know of Pietenpols that have been spun, and of one case where
the
pilot was barely able to recover from a spin that had flattened.
This only
reinforces my desire to avoid spinning any airplane with
doubtful or un-
known spin behavior.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum spars |
Yes the April issue of the experimenter has article on
aluminum spars taken from a book I think the name
of the book was Stress without Tears and can be
ordered from the EAA, does comparison on I
beam (wood) solid spar, box spar, and similar
Aluminum spars which of course win in the
strength to weight all out testing. I hope you
like math!
-----Original Message-----
From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum spars
>To all:
>
>Has anyone done any research on aluminum v. wood spars. I'm curious about
>feasability, weight, cost, strength, compatability with wooden ribs, and
any
>other pertinent issues that should be raised. I know that Wag-Aero offers
>this option with their Cub-like kits.
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, Arizona
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engine |
Nahuel,
I have some info as soon as i get time
I'll dig it out of my collection and
email to you. Also us your search engine
to look things up, theres a lot of info
on the ea-81, ea-71 and the bigger one
EA-92 (16 LBS. heavier few more hp.
on the internet however if you plan
on using a ea-81 in a Pietenpol
I would plan on a reduction drive.
do search on +EA-81 SUBARU
you'll find more info than you can
imagine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nahuel Garavaglia <ngarav(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, May 06, 1999 8:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Subaru engine
>Hi!,
>Did anybody have information about mounting a subaru ea65 engine on a
>piet?
>
>And anybody have plans to build a reduction for a subaru ea81?
>
>thanks
>
>
>===
>Nahuel Garavaglia
>
>ngarav(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
Russell,
Your instructor was absolutely right in insisting that only rudder
be used to keep the wings level when doing stalls in homebuilts
and older designs. My instructors said the same thing and when
fooling around with stalls, I keep off those ailerons! Most of the
older designs have non-differential ("barn door") ailerons, which
can cause trouble if misused.
Possibly some more modern designs are less critical in this regard.
I never did stalls and spins with the few I have flown, and thus don't
know their stall/spin characteristics. Perhaps others in the group
could provide some information in this regard.
Cheers,
Graham
Russell,
Your instructor was absolutely right
in
insisting that only rudder
be used to keep the wings level when
doing
stalls in homebuilts
and older designs. My instructors
said the same
thing and when
fooling around with stalls, I keep
off those
ailerons! Most of the
older designs
have
non-differential (barn door) ailerons,
which
can cause trouble if misused.
Possibly some more modern designs
are less
critical in this regard.
I never did stalls and spins with
the few I have
flown, and thus don't
know their stall/spin
characteristics. Perhaps
others in the group
could provide some information in
this
regard.
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
Russell,
I aggree with you. You never use aileron to keep wings level in a stall.
Of all the planes I flown, and all the instructors, non said to use
ailerons. Ailerons are ineffective due to the air not flowing over
them. Using rudder increases airspeed at the tip of the outside wing
and lifts it like magic.
Just get ready to.... dump the nose and "Step on the high wing"
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Washout, stalls and spins....
From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Washout, stalls and spins....
I don't know Russell, but that method seems like a good way to
get into a spin to me.
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
I took flying instruction from an elderly man in the Wentzville
MO.
area, when I did stalls he made me keep the wings level with
rudder
and to stay away from aileron saying that if a wing didn't have
wash out
or was improperly rigged the ailerons could get you hurt
He claimed that if you praticed stalls using nothing but rudder
to keep the wings level it was a lot safer in a homebuilt or
some of the older factory planes.
at
tip
degree
stalling
65hp.
recovery
right
not typical
never done
stalls and
characteristics of an
spins and
owned a Lus-
out at
to spin but,
predictably.
conforms
large amount
it simply
all the
back--but the high
you.
the
(or root),
(should?) stall
flying it for
where the
flattened. This only
doubtful or un-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Subaru engine |
I think he meant to say: http://www.mts.net/~davejohn/index.html
oil can wrote:
> Back when I was interested in the subaru engine for my ace, I looked into
> re-drive plans, I never found any. But there is a company which makes a fine
> quality re-drive for the subaru (soob).
>
> http://www.mts.net/davejohn/index.html
>
> >From: Nahuel Garavaglia <ngarav(at)yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Subaru engine
> >Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hi!,
> >Did anybody have information about mounting a subaru ea65 engine on a
> >piet?
> >
> >And anybody have plans to build a reduction for a subaru ea81?
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >
> >===
> >Nahuel Garavaglia
> >
> >ngarav(at)yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
Even in Cessna's I was taught to use the rudder to keep the wings level
in a stall.
Dean Dayton - N7167S
walter evans wrote:
> Russell,I aggree with you. You never use aileron to keep wings level
> in a stall. Of all the planes I flown, and all the instructors, non
> said to use ailerons. Ailerons are ineffective due to the air not
> flowing over them. Using rudder increases airspeed at the tip of the
> outside wing and lifts it like magic.Just get ready to.... dump the
> nose and "Step on the high wing"walt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 4:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Washout, stalls and spins....
>
>
Even in Cessna's I was taught to use the rudder to keep the
wings level in a stall.
Dean Dayton - N7167S
walter evans wrote:
Russell,I
aggree with you. You never use aileron to keep wings level in a stall.
Of all the planes I flown, and all the instructors, non said to use ailerons.
Ailerons are ineffective due to the air not flowing over them. Using
rudder increases airspeed at the tip of the outside wing and lifts it like
magic.Just get ready to.... dump the nose and "Step
on the high wing"walt
To: Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999
4:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Washout, stalls and spins....
From: kyle ray rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999
3:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Washout, stalls
and spins....I don't
know Russell, but that method seems like a good way to get into a spin
to me.Robert
Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
I
took flying instruction from an elderly man in the Wentzville MO.area,
when I did stalls he made me keep the wings level with rudderand
to stay away from aileron saying that if a wing didn't have wash outor
was improperly rigged the ailerons could get you hurtHe
claimed that if you praticed stalls using nothing but rudderto
keep the wings level it was a lot safer in a homebuilt orsome
of the older factory planes.
russell ray
From: Graham Hansen grhans@cable-lynx.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999
3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Washout, stalls and
spins....To the group,In
1970, when I completed my Pietenpol, I rigged the wings at+2
degrees incidence and reduced this to +1 degree at the tiprib.Flew
it that way for two years and then removed the one degreeof
washout. Since then, the incidence angle is a constant +2degrees.
I cannot notice any difference in the power-off stallingcharacteristics,
which are about the same as those of a 65hp.Aeronca
Champion; a definite break with instantaneous recoveryupon
moving the stick forward. My airplane tends to drop the rightwing
first, but this is likely an individual characteristic, not typicalof
Pietenpols.I have
done lots of spinning in ATC'd airplanes, but have never donefully-developed
spins in any homebuilt I have flown; only stalls andincipient
spins. If I am not sure about the spin characteristics of anairplane,
I'd rather avoid doing them at all, and practice spins andrecovery
in airplanes with predictable spin behavior. I owned a Lus-combe
8E for many years (until two years ago) and would go out atleast
once a year and spin the dickens out of it. It loved to spin but,being
a certified standard category airplane, always behaved predictably.The
Wag-A-Bond (Piper PA 17 Vagabond clone) I now have conformsvery
closely with the PA 17 specification, including the large amountof
washout in the wings. In a power-off, unaccelerated stall it simplymushes
without a break and drop of the nose; one could mush all theway
to the ground by simply holding the stick fully back--but the highrate
of sink and the sudden stop at the bottom would get you.As
far as I know, BHP did not use washout, probably because therectangular
wing planform tends to stall first at the center (or root),progressing
outward toward the wing tips which will (should?) stalllast.
This is why I eliminated the washout from mine after flying it fora
couple of years.I
know of Pietenpols that have been spun, and of one case where thepilot
was barely able to recover from a spin that had flattened. This onlyreinforces
my desire to avoid spinning any airplane with doubtful or un-known
spin behavior.Cheers,Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
I didn't know there was a mailing list for the Piet! Good to see! I've
been building for about 8 months. I've got the ribs, tail feathers and one
side of the fuselage built and have bought two 110 corvair engines. How
can I get previous posts on this mail list? Anyone using a ram air cooled
corvair on their Piet? Don't really like the odds on throwing a fan belt.
Wayne Sippola
Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Hello Wayne
Welcome to the list. I am building in Alexander just west of Brandon and
have about the same amount done except not using a corvair. There is a Piet
builder in the RAAC Winnipeg chapter, Dennis Scarfe,who I heard was building
a piet. E-mail me back and we can exchange Phone numbers and have a chat
about Piets. A couple of hundred clicks isn't too far away.
John McNarry
-----Original Message-----
From: wayne <
Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 6:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hello
> I didn't know there was a mailing list for the Piet! Good to see! I've
>been building for about 8 months. I've got the ribs, tail feathers and one
>side of the fuselage built and have bought two 110 corvair engines. How
>can I get previous posts on this mail list? Anyone using a ram air cooled
>corvair on their Piet? Don't really like the odds on throwing a fan belt.
>Wayne Sippola
>Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
In response to mike bell and his question on the stall in a piet. my piet
stalls very gently and can be held in a full stall with the stick back and
the wings held level with just a little bit of rudder. I believe that this
is called the "falling leaf maneuver". My piet also spins and recovers very
nicely with opposite rudder. I have only spun the piet with the instructor
on board but it spins both right and left and recovers very nicely.
Duane woolsey Piet NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Contact with Wm. Wynne (sort of) |
Wkoucky(at)aol.com wrote:
> I just got the low down on whats going on. Seems that William Wynne is still
> in business. He had some problem with a partner in the building he was in
> and is moving. I had another phone number and I talked with a worker in the
> other shop. He said he put a note on the door and I also had a message on
> his machine. It seems as thou he has been moving stuff and has not had time
> to return calls. I will get the low down on the new manual when I talk to
> him, too. I expect to talk to him soon. I am telling him to call collect.
> I think he has a number of people wanting to talk to him and he must have a
> huge phone bill.
>
> William Koucky
I met William Wynne a few years ago when he got to fly with Steve
Wittman in his Olds powered Tailwind. William was a super guy, aviation
in the blood type. Just keep one thing in mind, he doesn't make a
living and probably barely recovers costs from his experiments with the
Corvair engine, so be a little patient with him while he moves things
around. He will be the one carrying all the boxes, machine tools, etc.
himself.
________________________________________________________________________________
Welcome aboard! I'm in Thunder Bay, Ontario and am looking at the same
thing, whether to keep the Corvair with the fan, or look at using a
baffle/ ram system. I have a good core and have stripped off about 50
pounds of metal that won't be needed. The engine itself looks like it
would be easy to adapt. I am planning electrics, but no starter, as it
looks reasonably complicated to include one.
My unit is now on the gear, the wings are built and I am getting pretty
close to a pre cover inspection. So far the logged construction time is
at 850 hours. If you get to Thunder bay, let me know and we can compare
notes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: washout and stall |
What is the max. up elevator deflection on your piet??
Doug
> From: Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: washout and stall
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 12:31 PM
>
> In response to mike bell and his question on the stall in a piet. my
piet
> stalls very gently and can be held in a full stall with the stick back
and
> the wings held level with just a little bit of rudder. I believe that
this
> is called the "falling leaf maneuver". My piet also spins and recovers
very
> nicely with opposite rudder. I have only spun the piet with the
instructor
> on board but it spins both right and left and recovers very nicely.
>
> Duane woolsey Piet NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
What is the distance from your firewall to the axle centerline?,and the
distance from the firewall to the gear front pivot point? Please.Have seen
at least 3 different specs so far.
Corvair with fan ,alt but no starter. Doug in Alberta.
> From: Ian Holland
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: hello
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 6:25 PM
>
> Welcome aboard! I'm in Thunder Bay, Ontario and am looking at the same
> thing, whether to keep the Corvair with the fan, or look at using a
> baffle/ ram system. I have a good core and have stripped off about 50
> pounds of metal that won't be needed. The engine itself looks like it
> would be easy to adapt. I am planning electrics, but no starter, as it
> looks reasonably complicated to include one.
>
> My unit is now on the gear, the wings are built and I am getting pretty
> close to a pre cover inspection. So far the logged construction time is
> at 850 hours. If you get to Thunder bay, let me know and we can compare
> notes.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Any one else using the West system for glue? I am and I will probably use
it for varnish as well. I understand many wooden boats are using it. I
Just ripped up $100 Cdn worth of fir into longerons last week. Beautiful
piece of lumber with 35 rings to the inch. Have not found any vertical cut
lumber locally but should be able to get it ordered in. Got a set of old
Cleveland hubs, brakes and master cylinders plus 30 feet of streamlined
tube for the struts at a local airfield for a good price.
Good to know there are some builders close by, Ian and John. I fly on
435
sqn with Dennis Scharf, so I know him well. Guess that's all for now.
Wayne Sippola
Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
Front edge of firewall to the axle centreline is pretty close to 16
inches. FE of firewall to the centre of the front attach point is 12
inches. I am using tubular gear with wheels (600x 6) and brakes from
Tracy O'Brien. I used the jig diagram suggested by Bill Rewey June '92
in the BPA Issue 36 . It worked out pretty good, and saved a lot of
hassle.
I built the extended fuselage and hope I don't end up with too much
weight on the tail. Hard to tell at the moment as the motor has not yet
been mounted. I'm guessing at 40 pounds as she sits now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Wayne,
I suggest that you get in touch with Western Aircraft Supplies
in Calgary. Jean sells really nice spruce. I had mine sent
to Rochester, NY from there.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Thanks for the quick reply,my fuse is about 4 inches longer i think,about
16 inches from firewall to the gear pivot(front),cloned my gear from Graham
Hansen's CF-AUN,has the same measurements,his has a C85 sans electrics,so
is probably lighter.I am concerned mine will be light in the tail,so have
installed the batt. tray there,my gell cell is about 12 lbs.My Piet was
painted ENERGY YELLOW in Airtech process last week,is the most intense
yellow i have ever seen!Starting final assembly now,have to build the
cowling yet,not sure how i will do it yet,will have to be light,have to
much up front already.
Will let you know how it turns out.
Doug
> From: Ian Holland
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: hello
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 10:15 PM
>
> Front edge of firewall to the axle centreline is pretty close to 16
> inches. FE of firewall to the centre of the front attach point is 12
> inches. I am using tubular gear with wheels (600x 6) and brakes from
> Tracy O'Brien. I used the jig diagram suggested by Bill Rewey June '92
> in the BPA Issue 36 . It worked out pretty good, and saved a lot of
> hassle.
>
> I built the extended fuselage and hope I don't end up with too much
> weight on the tail. Hard to tell at the moment as the motor has not yet
> been mounted. I'm guessing at 40 pounds as she sits now.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Wayne
I have been using the West System and have no complaints about it at all a
really good product. I aquired some syringes from the vet. that make
measuring out small amounts easier than the pump system that came with the
cans. Perhaps some day in the future we can host a Western Ontario, Eastern
praires Piet gathering. :-)
John Mc
PS Say hello to Dennis for me.
-----Original Message-----
From: wayne
Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 6:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>Any one else using the West system for glue? I am and I will probably use
>it for varnish as well. I understand many wooden boats are using it. I
>Just ripped up $100 Cdn worth of fir into longerons last week. Beautiful
>piece of lumber with 35 rings to the inch. Have not found any vertical cut
>lumber locally but should be able to get it ordered in. Got a set of old
>Cleveland hubs, brakes and master cylinders plus 30 feet of streamlined
>tube for the struts at a local airfield for a good price.
> Good to know there are some builders close by, Ian and John. I fly on 435
>sqn with Dennis Scharf, so I know him well. Guess that's all for now.
>Wayne Sippola
>Winnipeg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I feel rather sure I want to build a "Pete". Can you help me hook up
with someone in the Houston, Tx. area? The first order of business seems
that I should see how one suits me. Any help will be greatly
appreciated. Any info on "Petes".....anything at all will also be
appreciated. I'm sure I'll be talking to you again. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Am building a long fuselage, Jenny style gear, A-65 powered, brakeless
Piet. The distance from the firewall to the axle centerline is 19".
Greg Cardinal
>>> Doug 05/09 6:03 PM >>>
What is the distance from your firewall to the axle centerline?,and the
distance from the firewall to the gear front pivot point? Please.Have
seen
at least 3 different specs so far.
Corvair with fan ,alt but no starter. Doug in Alberta.
> From: Ian Holland
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: hello
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 6:25 PM
>
> Welcome aboard! I'm in Thunder Bay, Ontario and am looking at the same
> thing, whether to keep the Corvair with the fan, or look at using a
> baffle/ ram system. I have a good core and have stripped off about 50
> pounds of metal that won't be needed. The engine itself looks like it
> would be easy to adapt. I am planning electrics, but no starter, as it
> looks reasonably complicated to include one.
>
> My unit is now on the gear, the wings are built and I am getting pretty
> close to a pre cover inspection. So far the logged construction time is
> at 850 hours. If you get to Thunder bay, let me know and we can compare
> notes.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum spars |
Kyle,
Thanks for the info.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> Yes the April issue of the experimenter has article on
> aluminum spars taken from a book I think the name
> of the book was Stress without Tears and can be
> ordered from the EAA, does comparison on I
> beam (wood) solid spar, box spar, and similar
> Aluminum spars which of course win in the
> strength to weight all out testing. I hope you
> like math!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 10:39 AM
> Subject: Aluminum spars
>
>
> >To all:
> >
> >Has anyone done any research on aluminum v. wood spars. I'm curious
about
> >feasability, weight, cost, strength, compatability with wooden ribs, and
> any
> >other pertinent issues that should be raised. I know that Wag-Aero
offers
> >this option with their Cub-like kits.
> >
> >Mark Boynton
> >Gilbert, Arizona
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Washout, stalls and spins.... |
No, no, no. You got it all wrong. If your right wing starts to drop, put
in full right rudder and full left aileron. You'll never get a good spin
by avoiding ailerons and stepping on the high wing. Better still, if you
use full power, it will spin real nice to the left. ;-)
Ken "it's not a spin unless there's at least 3 rotations" beanlands
On Sat, 8 May 1999, walter evans wrote:
> Russell, I aggree with you. You never use aileron to keep wings level in
> a stall. Of all the planes I flown, and all the instructors, non said
> to use ailerons. Ailerons are ineffective due to the air not flowing
> over them. Using rudder increases airspeed at the tip of the outside
> wing and lifts it like magic. Just get ready to.... dump the nose and
> "Step on the high wing" walt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I've been using it on my Christavia MK 1, here in Calgary. I have found
that it is ver strong and due to it's thin viscosity, it really works its
way into the wood. The only problem is that the same thin viscosity makes
it poor for gap filling. I've been using a combination of T-88 for
structural joints and West-System stuff for laminations.
As for using it as a varnish, keep in mind that it is NOT impervious to
UV. If left untreated, it can detiorate over time. I built a canoe using
the West-System epoxy and was warned of this from several sources. It was
actually finished with a UV protective varnish. However, I have heard that
there is no problem applying fabric over the epoxy resigns. So, unless the
area is exposed to direct sunlight, go for it.
Ken.
On Sun, 9 May 1999, wayne wrote:
> Any one else using the West system for glue? I am and I will probably use
> it for varnish as well. I understand many wooden boats are using it. I
> Just ripped up $100 Cdn worth of fir into longerons last week. Beautiful
> piece of lumber with 35 rings to the inch. Have not found any vertical cut
> lumber locally but should be able to get it ordered in. Got a set of old
> Cleveland hubs, brakes and master cylinders plus 30 feet of streamlined
> tube for the struts at a local airfield for a good price.
> Good to know there are some builders close by, Ian and John. I fly on
435
> sqn with Dennis Scharf, so I know him well. Guess that's all for now.
> Wayne Sippola
> Winnipeg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Fay <jefay(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear step hole and tail handle |
> once had a 1930 Buhl Bull Pup that had a retractable
> tube-within-a-tube that
> was actuated by a plain 'ol screen door spring and
> had a finger ring welded
> on the end to grab it with. Worked like a charm, but
> on the Piet there isn't
> room to keep it inside the fuselage and fit under
> the torque tube. Maybe
> someone else can suggest a way to mount one like
> that. Good luck
> Don Hicks
About 6-8 years ago Mr. Olsson (spelling?) from Arizona
had his very nice piet at Oshkosh. He had several
interesting features on his plane. (One that I am quite
interested in was his raising of the bellcrank to the
elevators to a higher position so that the elv. cables
did not rub on the stabilizers when the plane was at
rest.) He had built a very nifty retractable step to
assist in getting into and out of the cockpit. I am
sorry, but I do not remember the details. But I have
noticed in the roster that he is a menber of the BPA, so maybe you
could contact him and find out. Like all
BPA guys, he was very friendly and ready to answer any
questions I had--my problem was that I was not yet
building so wasn't yet ready to absorb all he told me.
Note the lesson to be learned: show up at Brodhead and Oshkosh with a
notebook ready to write down the
things you learn, and don't be afraid to ask questions.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
My current Stats:
Engine static = 2600 RPM
@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it is
underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft. circuit
altitude above the ground was slow.
timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in one
position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
Propeller: Home made 66X32
This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
So here are the questions:
What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
Plate?
Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
rating.
Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
What timing was it set at idle?
What should it be at full throttle/static?
Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ford A Engine Comments |
Hap,
Thank you for the information.
David
>David,
>
>Reference your question about "Any suggestions on rebuilding as far as work
>that I
>*should* pay someone to do for your Model A engine?" It primarily depends on
>your abilities, time, and resources. If you are a machinist, my guess is you
>could do everything yourself. However, purchasing the molds to pour the
>babbitt into, the reamers, line boring machine etc. would probably not be
>cost effective for rebuilding only one or two engines.
>
>If you are an average engine mechanic, you could have Jim or another A-Ford
>engine shop, boil and clean the block, magniflux/check for cracks, have the
>cylinders bored oversize, pour the babbitt, linebore the block, and your
>could reassemble everything yourself. I wouldn't really recommend that
>approach. I did something similar to that once and originally thought I
>would be saving quite bit of money. I think I saved less than $100 dollars.
>Jim can buy the pistons, rings, valves, springs, gears, gaskets etc.
>wholesale -- I couldn't. It took me all summer working part time to get my
>engine back together (different engine, I sold that truck). Like many
>things the Ford engine is simple to work on, but it is a lot easier if you
>start with one properly put together in the first place, rather than
>assembling it yourself for the first time.
>
>Caution, there are some parts that look good and will work fine for a static
>display type engine. I.e. after-market valves etc. The original and quality
>replacement parts will give you great service, but over the years (ever since
>the 1930s) certain manufactures produced "look a like" copies that did not
>offer the same performance. Jim, would know where the valves he was
>installing came from and what their track record is. (I bought a set of
>valves at a swap meet that look great -- new-old-replacement-stock (NORS) but
>I wouldn't put them in my engine after all the articles I read on "bogus
>parts" in the Model A Club magazines.
>
>I hope that is of some help to you. If you are planning to significantly up
>the horsepower on the Model A engine, I would recommend checking into having
>the babbitt bearing replaced with more modern insert bearings. I don't think
>Jim offers that, but babbitt works great for stock to slightly modified
>engines. Chevy used babbitt bearings in their engines until 1953 (my dad had
>one with babbitt bearings -- std trans and one with inserts the automatic
>trans).
>
>Don't forget to let Jim know what you plan to do with your engine. He may
>have some helpful suggestions and recommendations. Also, I haven't had an
>engine rebuilt since 1989, and they may have come up with some new thoughts
>and/or cautions.
>
>Good luck with your project, if I can be of any encouragement, please let me
>know.
>
>Hap
>PS I changed my e-mail from haptucker(at)hotmail.com to FordPiet(at)aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: rear step hole and tail handle |
Don't forget the camera and plenty of film!
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: John Fay <jefay(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rear step hole and tail handle
>About 6-8 years ago Mr. Olsson (spelling?) from Arizona
>had his very nice piet at Oshkosh. He had several
>interesting features on his plane. (One that I am quite
>interested in was his raising of the bellcrank to the
>elevators to a higher position so that the elv. cables
>did not rub on the stabilizers when the plane was at
>rest.) He had built a very nifty retractable step to
>assist in getting into and out of the cockpit. I am
>sorry, but I do not remember the details. But I have
>noticed in the roster that he is a menber of the BPA, so maybe you
>could contact him and find out. Like all
>BPA guys, he was very friendly and ready to answer any
>questions I had--my problem was that I was not yet
>building so wasn't yet ready to absorb all he told me.
>
>Note the lesson to be learned: show up at Brodhead and Oshkosh with a
>notebook ready to write down the
>things you learn, and don't be afraid to ask questions.
>
>John in Peoria
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic
You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the vacuum
advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part throttle
for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded) should
be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights move
in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve diagrams
for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just an
impulse on one mag for starting.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Fishing
>To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
>My current Stats:
>Engine static = 2600 RPM
>@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
>aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
>Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
>Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
>My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it
is
>underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
circuit
>altitude above the ground was slow.
>timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in one
>position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
>The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
>Propeller: Home made 66X32
>This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
>intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
>difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
>Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
>I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>
>So here are the questions:
>
>What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
>Plate?
>Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
>year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
>rating.
>Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
>In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
>What timing was it set at idle?
>What should it be at full throttle/static?
>Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
>What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
>I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
>Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
>Domenic
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic, I appreciate the info. As I am just starting on the Corvair,
and trying to get the rebuild manual from William Wynne (as you probably
have seen), van you recommend another Corvair manual, or source? My unit
has twin carbs, one on each intake manifold, so I am assuming that i
will have to make up a carb mount and splitter feed header to connect. I
think this is the piece that split that you were referring to. My block
number is T0429RH which I make as 1967 april 29 for manufacture.
I have removed the transmission cover and the crank and cam gears have
absolutely no indications of any wear on them, yet the amount of oila nd
grease on the outside (including a petrified mouse under the belt end)
indicates that it has not been overhauled previously. With the plugs
out, and a squirt of oil in each cylinder, the motor turns over by hand
easily (using the fan belt to pull on). I have not checked the
compression as I have to strip the unit to get at the crank for
threading.
All in all, a very interesting motor!
I guess if I can't contact Mr. Wynne, i will go with another rebuild
manual. Any suggestions out there? I have the Corvair Underground
catelogue coming, but would appreciate any commentsfrom those of you
that have gone through it.
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic, it sounds like you should revisit the rigging. I remember
reading somewhere that the issue you are describing is corrected by
shimming the horizontal stab, but I don't remember how much. Might be
worth while talking to an airframe guy. If I can remember where I saw
it, i will pass it on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rear step hole and tail handle |
To Peoria John Fay.........thanx for the info on Mr Olson (sp?) of Arizona.
I'll follow up and try to get his address. ill pass it along if it proves
successful. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Downloaded Domenic's photo's. Beautiful work! I intend on going a much
simpler route with the prop hub bolted to the crank like DHP used. I am
pretty sure I'll stay with the original ignition and carbs. How easy is it
to hand prop a corvair? With the small cylinders I would think it would be
easier than the A Ford. I got the GM corvair manual and found I will need
to have the crank ground 10 thou. The journals average 1 thou under
allowable and I'd like the bearings in good shape.
Long way from it but am thinking about building the wings as per the plans
with the spars spliced over the cockpit. However I think I will modify
slightly and cover each wing separately with another cover over the
joint/fuel tank area. The wing won't fit in my garage in one piece and I
don't think I'll have to take it apart much once it is flying.
Just laying up the second fuse side. I would like to put the ply skin
on
both sides of the fuse before I join them together. Is this a good idea or
should I skin the second side after all controls, seats etc. are in?
Wayne Sippola
Winnipeg
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Corvair Fishing
> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 7:06 PM
>
> Domenic
> You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the
vacuum
> advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part
throttle
> for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded)
should
> be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
> strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
> advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights
move
> in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve
diagrams
> for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
> need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
> power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just
an
> impulse on one mag for starting.
> John Mc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:41 PM
> Subject: Corvair Fishing
>
>
> >To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
> >My current Stats:
> >Engine static = 2600 RPM
> >@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
> >aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
> >Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
> >Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
> >My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like
it
> is
> >underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
> circuit
> >altitude above the ground was slow.
> >timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in
one
> >position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right
now.
> >The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
> >Propeller: Home made 66X32
> >This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to
the
> >intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
> >difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
> >Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
> >I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
> >
> >So here are the questions:
> >
> >What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum
advance
> >Plate?
> >Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960
model
> >year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same
tension
> >rating.
> >Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
> >In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
> >What timing was it set at idle?
> >What should it be at full throttle/static?
> >Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
> >What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
> >I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
> >Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
> >Domenic
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's video |
Wow, have I had a great week already. I received Mike Cuy's
video over the weekend and my Piet plans yesterday. Talk about
pumped up!
Mostly I wanted to comment on the value of the video. It is
great. He certainly sets a standard for construction and I love
to see the Piets flying. I've never seen one live and the flight
part of the video is a lot of fun and encouraging. I whole
heartedly recommend it to anyone who wants to get some good ideas
and experience a little of what the aircraft is like.
Are there any Piets under construction or flying in South
Carolina? It seems that most of the activity is in the mid-west
and Canada. I'd like to get up close to one and get 3D and
tactile views. I'm sure that I could see plenty at Oshkosh but
that is out unless I can get a businees trip to Chicago at the
right time and that is not likely.
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Fishing |
Wayne,
My prop.shaft/Hub is also bolted to the crank using the original 6 bolt
pattern, but not on a threaded crank. I left it as it was. The shaft is
supported by a dual angular bearing ( made by G.M.- New Departure). The
Shaft is stepped so that it rests on the inside race.This is easier than
threading the crank. I then brought forward an oil line the spray the
bearings. I had the end and bell housings cast ($100.). I made the Kapler
designed 3 piece wing. If you ever need to take it apart, away from your
home airport it would help you tremendously. I closed my fuselage side at
the very last moment. Even after I closed it, I found it difficult to work
inside. Another friend left the firewall off untill the last moment. The
ignition is original except I installed a second coil (switched if needed)
for redundency.
Regards,
Domenic/ Toronto
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Downloaded Domenic's photo's. Beautiful work! I intend on going a much
simpler route with the prop hub bolted to the crank like DHP used. I am
pretty sure I'll stay with the original ignition and carbs. How easy is it
to hand prop a corvair? With the small cylinders I would think it would be
easier than the A Ford. I got the GM corvair manual and found I will need
to have the crank ground 10 thou. The journals average 1 thou under
allowable and I'd like the bearings in good shape.
Long way from it but am thinking about building the wings as per the
plans
with the spars spliced over the cockpit. However I think I will modify
slightly and cover each wing separately with another cover over the
joint/fuel tank area. The wing won't fit in my garage in one piece and I
don't think I'll have to take it apart much once it is flying.
Just laying up the second fuse side. I would like to put the ply
skin on
both sides of the fuse before I join them together. Is this a good idea or
should I skin the second side after all controls, seats etc. are in?
Wayne Sippola
Winnipeg
----------
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Corvair Fishing
> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 7:06 PM
>
> Domenic
> You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the
vacuum
> advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part
throttle
> for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded)
should
> be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
> strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
> advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights
move
> in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve
diagrams
> for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
> need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
> power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just
an
> impulse on one mag for starting.
> John Mc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:41 PM
> Subject: Corvair Fishing
>
>
> >To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
> >My current Stats:
> >Engine static = 2600 RPM
> >@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
> >aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
> >Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
> >Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
> >My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like
it
> is
> >underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
> circuit
> >altitude above the ground was slow.
> >timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in
one
> >position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right
now.
> >The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
> >Propeller: Home made 66X32
> >This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to
the
> >intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
> >difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
> >Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
> >I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
> >
> >So here are the questions:
> >
> >What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum
advance
> >Plate?
> >Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960
model
> >year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same
tension
> >rating.
> >Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
> >In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
> >What timing was it set at idle?
> >What should it be at full throttle/static?
> >Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
> >What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
> >I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
> >Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
> >Domenic
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Michael Cuy's video |
I'm sure there must be some Piets in your area. Can you not get on the
U.S.A. aircraft registry and do a search?
Try to come to Oshkoshor Brodhead this year, it's the 70th Anniv. , One not
to miss.
Domenic/ Toronto
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Michael Cuy's video |
Wow, have I had a great week already. I received Mike Cuy's
video over the weekend and my Piet plans yesterday. Talk about
pumped up!
Mostly I wanted to comment on the value of the video. It is
great. He certainly sets a standard for construction and I love
to see the Piets flying. I've never seen one live and the flight
part of the video is a lot of fun and encouraging. I whole
heartedly recommend it to anyone who wants to get some good ideas
and experience a little of what the aircraft is like.
Are there any Piets under construction or flying in South
Carolina? It seems that most of the activity is in the mid-west
and Canada. I'd like to get up close to one and get 3D and
tactile views. I'm sure that I could see plenty at Oshkosh but
that is out unless I can get a businees trip to Chicago at the
right time and that is not likely.
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts and replaced
the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though were poor
quality threads in the barrels before I installed the original set only to
find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It accomadates the
expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on the weekend and
ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there was no way to
install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the point where the
rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't persuade it too
much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread, magna-fluxed
rod ends at about $50 each as well.
Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank or getting too
heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with fiberglass.
BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It has enough
resistance to get some good heat going.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: corvair fishing |
Thanks Doc,
This is exactly what I needed.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | docshop(at)prodigy.net |
dominic:
Call William Wynne at(904) 426-6028 in Port Orange Florida. He can help
you.
As Bill says in his "Corvair Conversion Information Pack":
- - - - - - - - - -
Points and Concdenser: Use AC or Echlin (NAPA) standard points. (The
heavey duty points have a high spring tension, which is not necessary at
rpms below 4000.)
Cap and Rotor: Echlin RR1820 and RR1830 are respectively very high quality
brass contacts. These come from NAPA stores. (Do not settle for the RR182
or RR183, these are the standard ones.)
Coil: I use Accel super stock coils. This and mamy other 12 volt coils
must have a ballast resitor in the current circuit so that the coil gets 12
volts to start, but only 6 volts to run. This is mandatory. The stock GM
coils have a special resitance wire in the harness to perform this function.
Remember to put AN365 nylon lock nuts on the electrical connections to the
coil.
Distributor and timing: When someone tells me that his Corvair is not
making the proper power it should, my first suspicion is the timing. Many
people set the timing at idle and leave it. This is not good enough. You
must know how much ignition advance you set at the rpm you will be flying
the engine.
After 30 or so years of service, most Corvair distributors are tired. Most
of the Corvair parts houses sell remanufactured distributors with the Dale
brand points plate. I highly recommend these. (When the top bushing is
worn out on the distrubutor the dwell will change as it runs, and will wear
the cap and rotor.) You cannot expect reliable performance from a worn
distrubutor. The old distributors have a tendency to have sticky mechanical
advances.
When setting up the distributor for your engine, remove the vacuum advance.
This advances the timing when the engine is at high rpm but at low load.
This condition does not apply to airplanes with fixed pitch props where a
given rpm will produce nearly the same load. Lock down the points plate so
it cannot move. Mark the balancer at 34 degrees...this in now you timing
"RedLine." (sic) This must be done with a certain degree of precision.
Detonation could result from having the timing advanced more. Use light
weight springs on the mechanical advance weights. You want all the advance
by 2000 rpm. When you run the engine, watch the advance work with a timing
light. Work on the mechanical advance if you are not getting full advance.
For hand prop engines, I set the distrubutor at 8 degrees static, and make
sure it will advance to 32-34 degrees. On electric start engines, set the
static at 12 degrees and make sure it will advance to 32-34 degrees. This
is very important. Without full advance, your engine will not make full
power.
- - - - - - - - - -
Hope this is of lome help to you. Pictures were great!
Doc Mosher - Neenah WI
docshop(at)prodigy.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Mike- Thanks for the kind words about my video. (the rebate is in
the mail :))))
Sanford NC, Jimmy and Connie Dean have a nice A powered black
and yellow Piet at their home airstrip. I belive they are on e-mail.
I'm sure Grant has thier home address.
It's not flying....fabric work to be done.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Hi Ian,
Before going any farther with your Corvair engine, I strongly recommend that
you consult two books. The first is "How to Hot-Rod Corvair Engines" by Bill
Fisher, the second is "How to Keep Your Corvair Alive" by Richard Finch.
Both books are invaluable resourches of tips and tricks for rebuilding,
modifying, and maintaining these engines. Both books also discuss their use
in aircraft. In fact, in the latest edition, Finch even talks about the
installation of a Corvair engine in his Cessna before selling it for use in a
Piet. If I recall correctly, his engine had a PSRU built by Bud Rinker.
Here's some advice I received when searching for rebuild assistance from a
lifetime GM mechanic-sage who shares his love of Corvairs on a few different
internet platforms:
>ABSOLUTELY- you MUST get a copy of Bill Fisher's excellent book, "How To
>HotRod Corvair Engines"- it was originally published by HP books in 1964?
>and has been revised and updated many times since then, Clarks Corvair
>Parts currently holds copyright on it, and sells it- it may also be
>available other places. Read it carefully, its the best book I have ever
>read hands down on automobile engines of any type.Theres some aspects in
>the book that must be taken with a grain of salt, as it was written when
>parts were still cheap and plentiful, but theres more information in there
>than you'll believe.
You also need to get both the Clarks catalog and the Corvair Underground
catalog. I learned a lot from them.
I, too, am waiting for the resurrection of William Wynne.
--Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
Do they really have to be streamlined. I've noticed several light planes that
simply use round tube. Does it really make much difference? This is a
question, not an opinion;-)
Dean Dayton
dayton(at)netwalk.com
Ken Beanlands wrote:
> Now, I just have to
> figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank or getting too
> heavy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Round vs. Streamlined |
Dean Dayton wrote:
Dean-
for his lift struts and they look good. I think the streamlining
is more for the eye than for drag reduction......especially on
something as draggy as a Piet. I've heard of guys using balsa wrapped
w/ dacron, foam, etc. to fair the tubes.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Fishing |
I've located a shop that has an after market distributer kit. It includes
heavier weights and three sets of springs, Light medium, heavy for the
corvair distributer. They could not tell me which of the sets would open to
full advance @ 2000 RPM. Does anbody know what tension of spring should be
used for this application? The specs I've found in al the corvair literature
are all the same.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic
You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the vacuum
advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part throttle
for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded) should
be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights move
in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve diagrams
for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just an
impulse on one mag for starting.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC |
>To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
>My current Stats:
>Engine static = 2600 RPM
>@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
>aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
>Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
>Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
>My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it
is
>underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
circuit
>altitude above the ground was slow.
>timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in one
>position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
>The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
>Propeller: Home made 66X32
>This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
>intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
>difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
>Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
>I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>
>So here are the questions:
>
>What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
>Plate?
>Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
>year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
>rating.
>Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
>In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
>What timing was it set at idle?
>What should it be at full throttle/static?
>Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
>What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
>I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
>Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
>Domenic
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Round vs. Streamlined |
This round tube strut then wrapped with fabric over balsa is how I did my
struts for my '24 Dormoy 'Tub. One heck of a lot cheaper than streamlined
tubing...could be done with Gary Price's rectangular tubing method
too..........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Round vs. Streamlined
>Dean Dayton wrote:
>>Do they really have to be streamlined ?
>
>Dean-
>for his lift struts and they look good. I think the streamlining
>is more for the eye than for drag reduction......especially on
>something as draggy as a Piet. I've heard of guys using balsa wrapped
>w/ dacron, foam, etc. to fair the tubes.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
Duane has round tubing and has over 100hours and hasn't fallen out of the
sky. I haven't streamlined my D-tube aluminum struts and still go flying
regularly. I guess my point is that drag reduction on the piet is kind of
an oxy-moron. Asthetics is the bigger consideration.
Stevee
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> dean dayton
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:16 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>
>
> Do they really have to be streamlined. I've noticed several
> light planes that
> simply use round tube. Does it really make much difference? This is a
> question, not an opinion;-)
>
> Dean Dayton
> dayton(at)netwalk.com
>
> Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
> > Now, I just have to
> > figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank
> or getting too
> > heavy.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Round vs. Streamlined |
There is one advantage to using some sort of streamling. The drag
reduction may not have a great effect on the overall speed of the plane,
but they do increase the force on the tubes. In my case, there is 9' of
strut tubing with about a 5.5' span unsupported (by a jury strut). Under
compression, the main failure mode is buckling with a tube of this
geometry so if the tube already has a buckling load (imposed by the drag)
it's that much more prone to failure. Streamlined tubing is very rigid
fore and aft due to it's shape and is also under less load.
I plan on countering some of the fore/aft loads by adding a cross member
to the 2 jury struts to form an "N" shape. There is a forth strut that
spans the two main struts at the jurry fittings.
However, I did notice that Chris Heintz has used round struts on his
latest creation, the CH-801. THis is the 4 place, 180 hp followon to the
CH-701. If an airplane this big and ugly...err..heavy can get away with
round tubing, ours should be a snap.
Ken
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Dean Dayton wrote:
>
> Dean-
> for his lift struts and they look good. I think the streamlining
> is more for the eye than for drag reduction......especially on
> something as draggy as a Piet. I've heard of guys using balsa wrapped
> w/ dacron, foam, etc. to fair the tubes.
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Thanks, Peter. I appreciate the info, and will see what I can do to get
them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
Ken, mind sharing where you got the barrels and forks from? Also, the
tube diameter and thickness along with the rational for it?
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
This is a note about the fuse skin....this is the second wooden plane that I
put the skin on the fuse while it was flat ( just assuming that was the way
to go) , but anyway, just remembered that when I tried to get the rear seat
in( the part you sit on,) it wouldn't go in the fuse. This is the long
fuselage for the A65, and I built the seat complete , less the top. When I
went to put the top in, it wouldn't go. Had to shave and scrape and bend to
get it in. This was made exactly to the print.
And while thinking of it, when putting the control tube assembly in the
bottom of the fuse, it was too long and had to cut an access notch in the
back seat to clear the tube.
Anyone else have this problem?
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: wayne
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Fishing
>Downloaded Domenic's photo's. Beautiful work! I intend on going a much
>simpler route with the prop hub bolted to the crank like DHP used. I am
>pretty sure I'll stay with the original ignition and carbs. How easy is it
>to hand prop a corvair? With the small cylinders I would think it would be
>easier than the A Ford. I got the GM corvair manual and found I will need
>to have the crank ground 10 thou. The journals average 1 thou under
>allowable and I'd like the bearings in good shape.
> Long way from it but am thinking about building the wings as per the plans
>with the spars spliced over the cockpit. However I think I will modify
>slightly and cover each wing separately with another cover over the
>joint/fuel tank area. The wing won't fit in my garage in one piece and I
>don't think I'll have to take it apart much once it is flying.
> Just laying up the second fuse side. I would like to put the ply skin on
>both sides of the fuse before I join them together. Is this a good idea or
>should I skin the second side after all controls, seats etc. are in?
>Wayne Sippola
>Winnipeg
>----------
>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Corvair Fishing
>> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 7:06 PM
>>
>> Domenic
>> You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the
>vacuum
>> advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part
>throttle
>> for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded)
>should
>> be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
>> strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
>> advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights
>move
>> in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve
>diagrams
>> for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
>> need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
>> power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just
>an
>> impulse on one mag for starting.
>> John Mc
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:41 PM
>> Subject: Corvair Fishing
>>
>>
>> >To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
>> >My current Stats:
>> >Engine static = 2600 RPM
>> >@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
>> >aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
>> >Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
>> >Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
>> >My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like
>it
>> is
>> >underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
>> circuit
>> >altitude above the ground was slow.
>> >timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in
>one
>> >position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right
>now.
>> >The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
>> >Propeller: Home made 66X32
>> >This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to
>the
>> >intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
>> >difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
>> >Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
>> >I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>> >
>> >So here are the questions:
>> >
>> >What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum
>advance
>> >Plate?
>> >Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960
>model
>> >year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same
>tension
>> >rating.
>> >Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
>> >In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
>> >What timing was it set at idle?
>> >What should it be at full throttle/static?
>> >Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
>> >What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
>> >I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
>> >Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
>> >Domenic
>> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Weight and Balance |
Hi List!
When I aquired my GN-1, it didn't include the GN-1 plans used in its
construction. I'm interested in checking the CG, and am wondering if I can
use the formulas that were in the last newsletter (which I think were for
the Pietenpol) for th GN-1, or is there another way to figure the GN-1 CG.
Mine has a 65 HP Cont, and the fuel tank in the forward cockpit.
Thanks in advance!
Robert Hensarling
ASC BFI
PPL GN-1 N83887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic:
Do you have a variable speed drill? The distributor would be turning at
1000 rpm at 2000 crankshaft rpm. You might be able to cobble up a
distributor test device using a drill to drive it and a strobe type timing
light to measure the advance and rpm. You would also need a degree wheel. I
saw that somone else posted the advance degrees you need. Better yet would
be to find someone with a distributor test bench. They aren't so common now
that most vehicles have gone to electronic ignition. Don't overlook bushing
wear and breaker point spring tension.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Corvair Fishing
>I've located a shop that has an after market distributer kit. It includes
>heavier weights and three sets of springs, Light medium, heavy for the
>corvair distributer. They could not tell me which of the sets would open to
>full advance @ 2000 RPM. Does anbody know what tension of spring should be
>used for this application? The specs I've found in al the corvair
literature
>are all the same.
>
>Domenic
> ----------
>From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Corvair Fishing
>Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 8:06PM
>
>Domenic
> You could set the timing plate in a locked position so that the vacuum
>advance is inoperative the vac advance is only used on cars at part
throttle
>for economy cruising at a lean mixture. The static timing (retarded) should
>be as the corvair to ensure easy starting. The springs need to be only
>strong enough to return it to statc timing at low power settings. The max
>advance can be limited or changed by the pins or slots that the weights
move
>in.( alittle welding a little filing) If you can find advance curve
diagrams
>for a corvair at peak torque speed set the max for that. The timing won't
>need to change once you have it started and the throttle set for enough
>power to keep it in the air. Aircraft mags dont have advance curves just an
>impulse on one mag for starting.
>John Mc
> -----Original Message-----
>From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:41 PM
>Subject: Corvair Fishing
>
>
>>To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
>>My current Stats:
>>Engine static = 2600 RPM
>>@ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
>>aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
>>Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
>>Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
>>My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it
>is
>>underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
>circuit
>>altitude above the ground was slow.
>>timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in
one
>>position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
>>The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
>>Propeller: Home made 66X32
>>This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
>>intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
>>difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
>>Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
>>I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>>
>>So here are the questions:
>>
>>What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
>>Plate?
>>Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
>>year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
>>rating.
>>Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
>>In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
>>What timing was it set at idle?
>>What should it be at full throttle/static?
>>Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
>>What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
>>I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
>>Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
>>Domenic
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Walt, I put the notch in the back of the seat as per the plans. The back
torque tube brace is mounted to the cross brace as per the plans.
I had some input from the group early on, and framed the fuselage Two
sides and cross braces, then put the seat together piece by piece. It
was tight, but no problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Robert, if you want a complete set of plans for a GN-1 for reference,
let me know. I bought them and never pursued it. Make me an offer.
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Holland
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Weight and Balance
Hi Ian, sure, I really ought to have a set. How much, and where to send the
check?
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Robert, if you want a complete set of plans for a GN-1 for reference,
>let me know. I bought them and never pursued it. Make me an offer.
>-=Ian=-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
robert hensarling wrote:
>
> Hi List!
>
> When I aquired my GN-1, it didn't include the GN-1 plans used in its
> construction. I'm interested in checking the CG, and am wondering if I can
> use the formulas that were in the last newsletter (which I think were for
> the Pietenpol) for th GN-1, or is there another way to figure the GN-1 CG.
> Mine has a 65 HP Cont, and the fuel tank in the forward cockpit.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Robert Hensarling
> ASC BFI
> PPL GN-1 N83887
Robert,
Tony Bingelis's book "The Sportplane Builder" has a good section on
weight and balance. You can get from EAA. You should be able to use it
with no problem.
Basically, if all your trying to do is locate where the CG is, you
should be able to find it without much effort. There's an old
engineering trick called "summation of moments about a point" that will
tell you exactly where the CG is. No real voodoo there.
Or, you should be able to do one similar to the one in the BPA
newsletter (third quarter 1998). Unfortunately, there was a mistake in
the data sheet printed that indicated a pilot weight of 115 lbs. That
should have read 155 lbs - I E-mailed Grant Mclaren with the correction
later but I am not sure if it was ever corrected. The CG on that one
(Poplar Pete) turned out to be right where it' supposed to be. I got a
hop in it the other day and it flies right in trim.
Ask around the local airport or talk to a local engineer-type. There
should be someone that can help you. Good Luck.
PS: I've got a GN-1 on the gear now and am putting together a site for
"Aircampers" both Piets and GN-1s. I just got it up and running in a
basic form today-its still under construction. You guys visit when you
can.... I'm no expert but if I can help with the weight and balance -
ring me up at...
bwm(at)planttel.net
www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
Cheers
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
-----Original Message-----
From: bwm
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Weight and Balance
Thanks Bert for the info. The log book indicates a weight of 706, and a CG
of 14.5, and that the leading edge was used as the datum. I just wanted to
try it myself to see if I could get close to the original calculations.
Robert
>robert hensarling wrote:
>>
>> Hi List!
>>
>> When I aquired my GN-1, it didn't include the GN-1 plans used in its
>> construction. I'm interested in checking the CG, and am wondering if I
can
>> use the formulas that were in the last newsletter (which I think were for
>> the Pietenpol) for th GN-1, or is there another way to figure the GN-1
CG.
>> Mine has a 65 HP Cont, and the fuel tank in the forward cockpit.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Robert Hensarling
>> ASC BFI
>> PPL GN-1 N83887
>
>
>Robert,
>
>Tony Bingelis's book "The Sportplane Builder" has a good section on
>weight and balance. You can get from EAA. You should be able to use it
>with no problem.
>
>Basically, if all your trying to do is locate where the CG is, you
>should be able to find it without much effort. There's an old
>engineering trick called "summation of moments about a point" that will
>tell you exactly where the CG is. No real voodoo there.
>
>Or, you should be able to do one similar to the one in the BPA
>newsletter (third quarter 1998). Unfortunately, there was a mistake in
>the data sheet printed that indicated a pilot weight of 115 lbs. That
>should have read 155 lbs - I E-mailed Grant Mclaren with the correction
>later but I am not sure if it was ever corrected. The CG on that one
>(Poplar Pete) turned out to be right where it' supposed to be. I got a
>hop in it the other day and it flies right in trim.
>
>Ask around the local airport or talk to a local engineer-type. There
>should be someone that can help you. Good Luck.
>
>PS: I've got a GN-1 on the gear now and am putting together a site for
>"Aircampers" both Piets and GN-1s. I just got it up and running in a
>basic form today-its still under construction. You guys visit when you
>can.... I'm no expert but if I can help with the weight and balance -
>ring me up at...
>
>bwm(at)planttel.net
>www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
>
>Cheers
>Bert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
Ok guys, one more thing here. I bought the Flight Simulator 98 that someone
suggested, then got the Microsoft Sidewinder that someone suggested.
Problem is I don't know exactly how to download the piet into the program.
Seems like I was able to download it the other day, but I don't know where
it went, except I know it didn't go to the 98 program. What am I doing
wrong here?
Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lpasley <lpasley(at)aristotle.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
The plans I have are incomplete for my GN-1, but they include the weight
and balance information. The plans and a few other items are at a friends
right now, but should be home this week-end. If you still need the W/B when
I get them, you are welcome to it.
Thanks, Larry
> Hi List!
>
> When I aquired my GN-1, it didn't include the GN-1 plans used in its
> construction. I'm interested in checking the CG, and am wondering if I
can
> use the formulas that were in the last newsletter (which I think were for
> the Pietenpol) for th GN-1, or is there another way to figure the GN-1 CG.
> Mine has a 65 HP Cont, and the fuel tank in the forward cockpit.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Robert Hensarling
> ASC BFI
> PPL GN-1 N83887
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Bert, I tossed you an e-mail re the extra fork ends that you had.I am
not sure if it went. I am interested if you can let me know what you
want for two sets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
I was thinking about how to streamline round tube with foam, and decided
that I would glue some sandpaper around a piece of round tubing, then file
the grouve in the foam with the sandpaper covered tube. then once the foam
is sanded out, and fitted and glued to the tube, I would sand the foam to
the streamline shape on the outside, and cover with fabric.
ocb
>From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
>
>I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts and replaced
>the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though were poor
>quality threads in the barrels before I installed the original set only to
>find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It accomadates the
>expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on the weekend and
>ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there was no way to
>install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
>needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the point where the
>rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't persuade it too
>much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
>expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
>better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread, magna-fluxed
>rod ends at about $50 each as well.
>
>Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
>round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
>figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank or getting too
>heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
>fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with fiberglass.
>BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It has enough
>resistance to get some good heat going.
>
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Can anyone help me locate a Piet Builder or owner near the Houston,
Texas area? I simply do not know how to start about this. I really want
to fly one first before building one, but if mine is the first one then
I'm sure I can't be too disappointed. Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance |
Ian Holland wrote:
>
> Robert, if you want a complete set of plans for a GN-1 for reference,
> let me know. I bought them and never pursued it. Make me an offer.
> -=Ian=-
I've got to ask but don't want to sound stupid. What is a GN-1? Is
there a web site for the GN-1? Does it compare to the Piet and if so
how? Thanks in advance and may you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy
Gaskins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: one other thing |
Robert, why are you flying the simulator when you can fly the GN-1. Tell
you what, I'll figure it out for you, send me the GN-1!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Foam streamlining struts |
I assume that whom ever has used foam that you have used fiberglass on the
foam before applying fabric. Surely the foam would not stand the fabric
cements or the heat. Seems like wood would be easier. Am I missing
something?
Steve E
Provo UT.
PS. Yesterday was so nice I had to extend my lunch for an hour. Honest I
was back to work on time, just 1000' too high...
SE
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of oil
> can
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:38 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>
>
> I was thinking about how to streamline round tube with foam,
> and decided
> that I would glue some sandpaper around a piece of round
> tubing, then file
> the grouve in the foam with the sandpaper covered tube. then
> once the foam
> is sanded out, and fitted and glued to the tube, I would sand
> the foam to
> the streamline shape on the outside, and cover with fabric.
>
> ocb
>
>
> >From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> >Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
> >
> >I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts
> and replaced
> >the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though
> were poor
> >quality threads in the barrels before I installed the
> original set only to
> >find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It
> accomadates the
> >expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on
> the weekend and
> >ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there
> was no way to
> >install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
> >needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the
> point where the
> >rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't
> persuade it too
> >much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
> >expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
> >better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread,
> magna-fluxed
> >rod ends at about $50 each as well.
> >
> >Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
> >round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
> >figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank
> or getting too
> >heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
> >fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with
> fiberglass.
> >BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It
> has enough
> >resistance to get some good heat going.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Weight and Balance |
Randy,
Long time no hear! The GN-1 is a Piet look a like. It was based on the
piet, but modified to accept what was once redily available Cub parts, and a
continetal engine. It is generally 50-100lbs heavier than a stock piet, and
uses a different airfoil. There are other differences, but they look very
similar. I have heard they fly similarly as well, but I haven't had the
chance to fly one yet.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> RGASKIN
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 5:00 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Weight and Balance
>
>
> Ian Holland wrote:
> >
> > Robert, if you want a complete set of plans for a GN-1 for
> reference,
> > let me know. I bought them and never pursued it. Make me an offer.
> > -=Ian=-
> I've got to ask but don't want to sound stupid. What is a GN-1? Is
> there a web site for the GN-1? Does it compare to the Piet and if so
> how? Thanks in advance and may you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy
> Gaskins
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Randy- In addition to the good points Steve E. mentioned,
the GN-1 has a 'fixed' wing position relative to the fuselage.
The Piet's wing can be moved fore and aft to various
degrees to accommodate all the marvelous combinations of
your dreams- engine type, pilot weight, fuel locations, etc.
To make your center of gravity right on a GN-1 you either have to:
get it right the first time......make your engine mount longer or
shorter.......or add ballast. Both planes fly very similar although
the Piet generally has better climb and smaller engines due to it's
inherent empty wt. being lower. Then again if a Piet is overbuilt and
comes in with too heavy of an empty weight, you can kiss the
advantage goodbye. Hope this helps !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Foam streamlining struts |
Actually, you would have to use fiberglass for 2 reasons. First, the foam
probably won't stand up to the covering chemicals. Second, struts are
commonly used for ground handling. People push the plane forward by the
struts. It may be fine that YOU know not to push on the struts, but will
the other people that may have occassion to move your plane know it?
Balsa was my first choice until I priced it out. It will run about $400
CDN to get enough to cover it with! Besides, with a good wire foam cutter,
you can cut the foam cores in an evening, complete with cut out for the
strut. Fiberglassing them to the strut is not that much harder. I'll be
sure and give a full report, including pics, when I'm done.
Ken
On Wed, 12 May 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> I assume that whom ever has used foam that you have used fiberglass on the
> foam before applying fabric. Surely the foam would not stand the fabric
> cements or the heat. Seems like wood would be easier. Am I missing
> something?
>
> Steve E
> Provo UT.
>
> PS. Yesterday was so nice I had to extend my lunch for an hour. Honest I
> was back to work on time, just 1000' too high...
>
> SE
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Behalf Of oil
> > can
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:38 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> >
> >
> > I was thinking about how to streamline round tube with foam,
> > and decided
> > that I would glue some sandpaper around a piece of round
> > tubing, then file
> > the grouve in the foam with the sandpaper covered tube. then
> > once the foam
> > is sanded out, and fitted and glued to the tube, I would sand
> > the foam to
> > the streamline shape on the outside, and cover with fabric.
> >
> > ocb
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
> > >
> > >I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts
> > and replaced
> > >the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though
> > were poor
> > >quality threads in the barrels before I installed the
> > original set only to
> > >find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It
> > accomadates the
> > >expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on
> > the weekend and
> > >ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there
> > was no way to
> > >install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
> > >needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the
> > point where the
> > >rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't
> > persuade it too
> > >much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
> > >expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
> > >better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread,
> > magna-fluxed
> > >rod ends at about $50 each as well.
> > >
> > >Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
> > >round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
> > >figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank
> > or getting too
> > >heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
> > >fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with
> > fiberglass.
> > >BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It
> > has enough
> > >resistance to get some good heat going.
> > >
> > >Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Foam streamlining struts |
Be carefull about covering your round struts. I makes inspection difficult.
Make sure it is rust protected before the covering, if I'm not mistaken, I
believe Brian Kenny found some mild corrosion on his strut after removing
the covering. Brian can confirm this. He did not replace the streamline
covering.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Foam streamlining struts |
Actually, you would have to use fiberglass for 2 reasons. First, the foam
probably won't stand up to the covering chemicals. Second, struts are
commonly used for ground handling. People push the plane forward by the
struts. It may be fine that YOU know not to push on the struts, but will
the other people that may have occassion to move your plane know it?
Balsa was my first choice until I priced it out. It will run about $400
CDN to get enough to cover it with! Besides, with a good wire foam cutter,
you can cut the foam cores in an evening, complete with cut out for the
strut. Fiberglassing them to the strut is not that much harder. I'll be
sure and give a full report, including pics, when I'm done.
Ken
On Wed, 12 May 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> I assume that whom ever has used foam that you have used fiberglass on the
> foam before applying fabric. Surely the foam would not stand the fabric
> cements or the heat. Seems like wood would be easier. Am I missing
> something?
>
> Steve E
> Provo UT.
>
> PS. Yesterday was so nice I had to extend my lunch for an hour. Honest I
> was back to work on time, just 1000' too high...
>
> SE
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Behalf Of oil
> > can
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:38 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> >
> >
> > I was thinking about how to streamline round tube with foam,
> > and decided
> > that I would glue some sandpaper around a piece of round
> > tubing, then file
> > the grouve in the foam with the sandpaper covered tube. then
> > once the foam
> > is sanded out, and fitted and glued to the tube, I would sand
> > the foam to
> > the streamline shape on the outside, and cover with fabric.
> >
> > ocb
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
> > >
> > >I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts
> > and replaced
> > >the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though
> > were poor
> > >quality threads in the barrels before I installed the
> > original set only to
> > >find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It
> > accomadates the
> > >expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on
> > the weekend and
> > >ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there
> > was no way to
> > >install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
> > >needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the
> > point where the
> > >rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't
> > persuade it too
> > >much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
> > >expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
> > >better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread,
> > magna-fluxed
> > >rod ends at about $50 each as well.
> > >
> > >Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
> > >round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
> > >figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank
> > or getting too
> > >heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
> > >fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with
> > fiberglass.
> > >BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It
> > has enough
> > >resistance to get some good heat going.
> > >
> > >Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Randy- In addition to the good points Steve E. mentioned,
> the GN-1 has a 'fixed' wing position relative to the fuselage.
> The Piet's wing can be moved fore and aft to various
> degrees to accommodate all the marvelous combinations of
> your dreams- engine type, pilot weight, fuel locations, etc.
> To make your center of gravity right on a GN-1 you either have to:
> get it right the first time......make your engine mount longer or
> shorter.......or add ballast. Both planes fly very similar although
> the Piet generally has better climb and smaller engines due to it's
> inherent empty wt. being lower. Then again if a Piet is overbuilt and
> comes in with too heavy of an empty weight, you can kiss the
> advantage goodbye. Hope this helps !
> Mike C.
Thanks guys for the information. As the great tailwind says, build it
as per plans and a great Piet you will have. May you be blessed with a
tailwind. Randy Gaskins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
To the List,
Does anyone know if the "Eelco" aluminun exhaust headers for corvairs are
still available? Are they still in business? Big Jim recommended these in an
Article he wrote for BPAN issue #31.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Foam streamlining struts |
Thanks for the advice. My struts are already scheduled for the powder
coating shop along with my LG legs and bungee struts, engine mount and
seat frame. Also, the welded ends will be exposed allowing for inspection
of the most likeli area for cracks to develop.
Ken
On Wed, 12 May 1999, BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
> Be carefull about covering your round struts. I makes inspection difficult.
> Make sure it is rust protected before the covering, if I'm not mistaken, I
> believe Brian Kenny found some mild corrosion on his strut after removing
> the covering. Brian can confirm this. He did not replace the streamline
> covering.
>
> Domenic
> ----------
> From: Ken Beanlands
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Foam streamlining struts
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:12AM
>
> Actually, you would have to use fiberglass for 2 reasons. First, the foam
> probably won't stand up to the covering chemicals. Second, struts are
> commonly used for ground handling. People push the plane forward by the
> struts. It may be fine that YOU know not to push on the struts, but will
> the other people that may have occassion to move your plane know it?
>
> Balsa was my first choice until I priced it out. It will run about $400
> CDN to get enough to cover it with! Besides, with a good wire foam cutter,
> you can cut the foam cores in an evening, complete with cut out for the
> strut. Fiberglassing them to the strut is not that much harder. I'll be
> sure and give a full report, including pics, when I'm done.
>
> Ken
>
> On Wed, 12 May 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> > I assume that whom ever has used foam that you have used fiberglass on the
> > foam before applying fabric. Surely the foam would not stand the fabric
> > cements or the heat. Seems like wood would be easier. Am I missing
> > something?
> >
> > Steve E
> > Provo UT.
> >
> > PS. Yesterday was so nice I had to extend my lunch for an hour. Honest I
> > was back to work on time, just 1000' too high...
> >
> > SE
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Behalf Of oil
> > > can
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:38 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking about how to streamline round tube with foam,
> > > and decided
> > > that I would glue some sandpaper around a piece of round
> > > tubing, then file
> > > the grouve in the foam with the sandpaper covered tube. then
> > > once the foam
> > > is sanded out, and fitted and glued to the tube, I would sand
> > > the foam to
> > > the streamline shape on the outside, and cover with fabric.
> > >
> > > ocb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > > >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > >Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:54:26 -0600 (MDT)
> > > >
> > > >I finally got in the replacement barrel ends for my struts
> > > and replaced
> > > >the old ones. You may recall that I had tapped what I though
> > > were poor
> > > >quality threads in the barrels before I installed the
> > > original set only to
> > > >find out that this tight thread is done on purpose . It
> > > accomadates the
> > > >expansion that occurs due to welding. I welded them in on
> > > the weekend and
> > > >ran the tap down last night. Before I welded them in, there
> > > was no way to
> > > >install the fork ends. After I finished, ine was still very tight and
> > > >needed the tap. The second had, indeed, expanded to the
> > > point where the
> > > >rod end would fit with just a little persuasion. I didn't
> > > persuade it too
> > > >much and instead ran the tap down to clean up the thread. It was an
> > > >expensive lesson as the barrels cost about $50 each, but I feel a lot
> > > >better about them now. I also bought 2 new, rolled thread,
> > > magna-fluxed
> > > >rod ends at about $50 each as well.
> > > >
> > > >Fortunately, I was able to afford the new parts because I substituted
> > > >round tube struts in place of streamlined stock. Now, I just have to
> > > >figure out how to streamline them without breaking the bank
> > > or getting too
> > > >heavy. My current plan is to hot wire some foam blocks to form the
> > > >fairing. I can then attach them to the strut and cover with
> > > fiberglass.
> > > >BTW, aircraft lock wire works great for hot wire cutting. It
> > > has enough
> > > >resistance to get some good heat going.
> > > >
> > > >Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
The barrels and forks came from Wicks and cost about $50 USD each ($200
for the set).
Since I'm building a Christavia, not a Piet, my dimensions etc will not
apply. However, The front strut is 1-5/8"X0.083" and the rear is
1"x0.095". It was easy to get these numbers. I wanted the struts to be at
least as strong as the originals. The struts take loads in two modes,
tension for possitive G and compression for negative.
The tensile strength was easy. All you have to do is come up with a strut
with the same cross-sectional area; ie. the same amount of material. That
can easily be done by comparing weight per foot between 4130 streamlined
struts and round.
Compression is a bit more complicated. The geometry determines that in
compression, these struts will fail due to buckling. On the streamlined
struts, they will buckle across the minor axis as it is a lot weaker than
the major axis. So, by matching the minor axis diameter and with the
heavier wall thickness, the buckling strength will be about the same. This
actually took a bit of research as there was no mechanical specs on the
streamlined tubing. It was gathered by looking at other approximate
shapes.
Ken.
On Tue, 11 May 1999, Ian Holland wrote:
> Ken, mind sharing where you got the barrels and forks from? Also, the
> tube diameter and thickness along with the rational for it?
> Thanks,
> -=Ian=-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Adjustable lift strut attachments |
I think this has been done by Aircraft Spruce in their catalog. They have a
conversion table on the steel page.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ken
> Beanlands
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:56 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Adjustable lift strut attachments
>
>
> The barrels and forks came from Wicks and cost about $50 USD
> each ($200
> for the set).
>
> Since I'm building a Christavia, not a Piet, my dimensions
> etc will not
> apply. However, The front strut is 1-5/8"X0.083" and the rear is
> 1"x0.095". It was easy to get these numbers. I wanted the
> struts to be at
> least as strong as the originals. The struts take loads in two modes,
> tension for possitive G and compression for negative.
>
> The tensile strength was easy. All you have to do is come up
> with a strut
> with the same cross-sectional area; ie. the same amount of
> material. That
> can easily be done by comparing weight per foot between 4130
> streamlined
> struts and round.
>
> Compression is a bit more complicated. The geometry determines that in
> compression, these struts will fail due to buckling. On the
> streamlined
> struts, they will buckle across the minor axis as it is a lot
> weaker than
> the major axis. So, by matching the minor axis diameter and with the
> heavier wall thickness, the buckling strength will be about
> the same. This
> actually took a bit of research as there was no mechanical
> specs on the
> streamlined tubing. It was gathered by looking at other approximate
> shapes.
>
> Ken.
>
> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Ian Holland wrote:
>
> > Ken, mind sharing where you got the barrels and forks from?
> Also, the
> > tube diameter and thickness along with the rational for it?
> > Thanks,
> > -=Ian=-
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Tnx.
My firewall to front gear pivot center is about 17 inches,and aprox 24 to
axle center.
Started reinstalling the engine last night,but first wieghed the corvair
on a balance beam scale.With 2 stock carbs,magnesium fan,fan
shroud,belt,mech.fuel pump,dist,full oil,prop hub,support chain,throttle
linkage(between the carbs ala stock),plug wires wieghed in at 233# no
exhaust installed.
Doug
> From: Ian Holland
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: hello
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 10:15 PM
>
> Front edge of firewall to the axle centreline is pretty close to 16
> inches. FE of firewall to the centre of the front attach point is 12
> inches. I am using tubular gear with wheels (600x 6) and brakes from
> Tracy O'Brien. I used the jig diagram suggested by Bill Rewey June '92
> in the BPA Issue 36 . It worked out pretty good, and saved a lot of
> hassle.
>
> I built the extended fuselage and hope I don't end up with too much
> weight on the tail. Hard to tell at the moment as the motor has not yet
> been mounted. I'm guessing at 40 pounds as she sits now.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: one other thing |
>Ok guys, one more thing here. I bought the Flight Simulator 98 that someone
>suggested, then got the Microsoft Sidewinder that someone suggested.
>Problem is I don't know exactly how to download the piet into the program.
>Seems like I was able to download it the other day, but I don't know where
>it went, except I know it didn't go to the 98 program. What am I doing
>wrong here?
>
>Robert
>
>
Robert, no ofence intended, just found the right moment to put this that I
found somewhere (hope you solve the problem soon)
"So many times computing problems end-up being the interface between the
chair and the keyboard!"
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: one other thing |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 9:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: one other thing
Amen!
Robert
>>Ok guys, one more thing here. I bought the Flight Simulator 98 that
someone
>>suggested, then got the Microsoft Sidewinder that someone suggested.
>>Problem is I don't know exactly how to download the piet into the program.
>>Seems like I was able to download it the other day, but I don't know where
>>it went, except I know it didn't go to the 98 program. What am I doing
>>wrong here?
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>
>>
>Robert, no ofence intended, just found the right moment to put this that I
>found somewhere (hope you solve the problem soon)
>
>"So many times computing problems end-up being the interface between the
>chair and the keyboard!"
>
>Saludos
>
>Gary Gower
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Rib Construction Methods |
Has anyone used ribs sawn from plywood? There is a lot less
construction time, but a small weight penalty. If so, how do you
work out how much wood to leave when you carve out the inside of
the plywood?
Thanks,
Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Construction Methods |
I did. Granted, they were for my Christavia, not a Piet. I used 1/4"
plywood without a capstrip. However, if I had my time back, I would have
used capstrips to keep the robs from bowing. The entire stack of 30 ribs
weighed 11 lbs. Considering that the other ribs had to weigh something,
it's not a great weight penalty compared to the time savings.
As for routing, I just created lightening holes where they wouldn't
interfere with the drag/antidrag wires. I did test them at one point by
placing 2 pieces of 2x10 across 2 ribs and then loading 320 lbs of
sandbags on the ribs. No problem.
Ken
On Thu, 13 May 1999, Mike Bell wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone used ribs sawn from plywood? There is a lot less
> construction time, but a small weight penalty. If so, how do you
> work out how much wood to leave when you carve out the inside of
> the plywood?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Bell (NoPietYet)
> Columbia, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike Bell wrote:
<<>
I owned & flew an Ed Sampson built Piet prior to building my own. His
Piet had plywood ribs with cap strips. I had no problems with the
aircraft.
It was nosed over (pilot error) at the Rhinebeck aerodrome. It was
repaired & sold to someone in the midwest.
Mike B ( Piet N687MB )
Mike Bell wrote:
Has anyone used ribs sawn
from
plywood?
I owned flew an Ed Sampson built
Piet
prior to building my own. His Piet had plywood ribs with cap strips. I
had no
problems with the aircraft.
It was nosed over (pilot error)
at the
Rhinebeck aerodrome. It was repaired sold to someone in the
midwest.
Mike B ( Piet N687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Fishing |
Ian,
I can't remember if I answered your questions...so here it goes again.
I too have the same series engine (T0219RH). I chose to use an aircraft
carb. rather than the originals. I think they would be too cool hanging out
there in the wind. , but then that depends on how you cowl them in. My carb
is mounted under the engine hanging on a 1/8th plate alum. bolted to 4 of
the oil pan bolts. I have a welded tube(2") coming off the top end of the
carb (90 degrees) then it procedes back just past the pulley with another
(90 degree) bend with a short extention to the 1 1/2 " 'Y' split. the
runners after the split are made of electrical thin wall tube conduit with a
nice gentle 90 degree bend. These are terminated at the intake boss where
the old carbs were mounted. The reason I mounted the carb under the engine
is the same reason all aircraft carbs are mounted underneath... to prevent
fuel fires. This way any excess fuel can run off through the air box.
I'm going to sort out my timing problem this week-end. My gear leg is
painted and will also be mounted this week-end.
Regards,
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic, I appreciate the info. As I am just starting on the Corvair,
and trying to get the rebuild manual from William Wynne (as you probably
have seen), van you recommend another Corvair manual, or source? My unit
has twin carbs, one on each intake manifold, so I am assuming that i
will have to make up a carb mount and splitter feed header to connect. I
think this is the piece that split that you were referring to. My block
number is T0429RH which I make as 1967 april 29 for manufacture.
I have removed the transmission cover and the crank and cam gears have
absolutely no indications of any wear on them, yet the amount of oila nd
grease on the outside (including a petrified mouse under the belt end)
indicates that it has not been overhauled previously. With the plugs
out, and a squirt of oil in each cylinder, the motor turns over by hand
easily (using the fan belt to pull on). I have not checked the
compression as I have to strip the unit to get at the crank for
threading.
All in all, a very interesting motor!
I guess if I can't contact Mr. Wynne, i will go with another rebuild
manual. Any suggestions out there? I have the Corvair Underground
catelogue coming, but would appreciate any commentsfrom those of you
that have gone through it.
Thanks,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Carb |
Domenic,
Just a thought your power problem may be due to induction pulse
limiting. That is the reason we used to be able to drive the old low
horsepower VW beetles wide open and they would turn so many rpm. Just
something to think about.
J Mc
. My carb
>is mounted under the engine hanging on a 1/8th plate alum. bolted to 4 of
>the oil pan bolts. I have a welded tube(2") coming off the top end of the
>carb (90 degrees) then it procedes back just past the pulley with another
>(90 degree) bend with a short extention to the 1 1/2 " 'Y' split. the
>runners after the split are made of electrical thin wall tube conduit with
a
>nice gentle 90 degree bend. These are terminated at the intake boss where
>the old carbs were mounted. The reason I mounted the carb under the engine
>is the same reason all aircraft carbs are mounted underneath... to prevent
>fuel fires. This way any excess fuel can run off through the air box.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
> My current Stats:
> Engine static = 2600 RPM
> @ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
> aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
> Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
> Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
> My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it is
> underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft. circuit
> altitude above the ground was slow.
> timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in one
> position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
> The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
> Propeller: Home made 66X32
> This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
> intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
> difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
> Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
> I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>
> So here are the questions:
>
> What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
> Plate?
> Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
> year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
> rating.
> Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
> In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
> What timing was it set at idle?
> What should it be at full throttle/static?
> Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
> What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
> I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
> Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
> Domenic
Hi Domenic
I am confused with something. you say that the prop is a 66x32 and you
spin it at2600 rpm. My C-65 spins a 72-42 at 2250 rpm static. If my math
is any good you are running less than 65 hp. any one else out there have
an idea on this one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Fishing |
To Wayne and Cathy,
Hello, Our engines are completely different. You can spin a larger propeller
at a lower RPM because of your torque curve. You have a longer stroke engine
with a much larger sized piston. My stroke is short with a much smaller
piston, therefore my engine requires higher RPM to develop similar H.P. Also
since it spins higher, the prop. diameter must be kept to a certain max.
diameter (calc. by formula) to keep the prop. tips from going supersonic. I
would like to see 2900-3000 RPM at full throttle. This is still well below
the sonic speeds (Approx. 3500 RPM). I'll be changing the centrifical
springs in the distributer this week-end, and re-time the engine to 35
degrees.
Hope this helps your understanding,
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Fishing |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> To All Flying Corvair Piet. owners,
> My current Stats:
> Engine static = 2600 RPM
> @ Full throttle in Cruise + 2600 RPM
> aircraft weight and balance is well within the envelope.
> Aircraft empty weight = 807 Lbs.
> Aircraft engine feels like it is flying with a governor on it.
> My Problem: It flies slightly tail low or in a nose high attitude like it
is
> underpowered, or you were flying in slow flight. My clinb to 800 ft.
circuit
> altitude above the ground was slow.
> timing: currently set for 14 deg. BTDC with the vacumm advance wired in
one
> position. But I don't know which posion is full on or full off right now.
> The engine starts easy. I have a starter installed.
> Propeller: Home made 66X32
> This week-end the intake including the 'Y' split before the runners to the
> intake boss was replaced. The result was ...no change. Not even 1 RPM
> difference. There could only be 1 of four problems or a combination. 1.
> Fuel 2. intake system 3. Propeller 4. Timing.
> I'M next going to illiminate Timing.
>
> So here are the questions:
>
> What did y'all do to the distributer, ie weights, springs, vacuum advance
> Plate?
> Some of the literature I've read said to change the springs to 1960 model
> year, but when I looked up the specs... they were exactly the same tension
> rating.
> Should the weights be welded to full advance or otherwise.
> In what position did you lock the vacuum advance?
> What timing was it set at idle?
> What should it be at full throttle/static?
> Should I expect any improvement with timing changes?
> What RPM are y' all achieving and with what prop. pitch?
> I would appreciate your knowledgable response as soon as posible.
> Stuck with "aircraft on ground",
> Domenic
Hi Domenic
I am confused with something. you say that the prop is a 66x32 and you
spin it at2600 rpm. My C-65 spins a 72-42 at 2250 rpm static. If my math
is any good you are running less than 65 hp. any one else out there have
an idea on this one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic, thanks for the info. I was figuring that I would do something
similar (for the same reasons)I can't see the carbs sitting exposed. Did
you retain the Corvair fan? What carburators did you look at, and what
did you settle on?
Sure glad I'm not breaking new ground on this sort of application. I
have a rebuild book on order and another on back order so hopefully will
have some ideas in them.
thanks again,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: FW: Corvair Fishing |
Ian,
I did not retain the fan. It's pretty cool here in Canada most of the time.
With the oil cooler I reached only 165 degrees.
I settled on a Stomberg Carb. MA3 I think?? came off an 85 continental.
dom.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Fishing |
Domenic, thanks for the info. I was figuring that I would do something
similar (for the same reasons)I can't see the carbs sitting exposed. Did
you retain the Corvair fan? What carburators did you look at, and what
did you settle on?
Sure glad I'm not breaking new ground on this sort of application. I
have a rebuild book on order and another on back order so hopefully will
have some ideas in them.
thanks again,
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How many 'Scouts? |
Out of curiosity, how many of us are building Sky Scouts? I see lots of
pictures and read of lots of Air Campers, but not many of the single-place
brothers are talked about. Just wondering.
Ed Woerle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Model A radiator specs |
Can anyone tell me how wide a Model A radiator is? Would like to find a core
to cut in half, like mentioned in Air Camper article. Plan to modify Kapler
c-section to allow radiator to go behind leading edge when adjusting wing for
rigging/wt&bal. Need to know how wide to make the opening. Thanks.
Ed Woerle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How many 'Scouts? |
I have a red and black Ford powered Sky Scout on the home stretch about
ready for final assembly (NX899EM)
Earl Myers-Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com <Ed0248(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 15, 1999 12:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many 'Scouts?
>Out of curiosity, how many of us are building Sky Scouts? I see lots of
>pictures and read of lots of Air Campers, but not many of the single-place
>brothers are talked about. Just wondering.
>
>Ed Woerle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model A radiator specs |
Ed;
I will get back to you shortly with some Scout radiator info....
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed0248(at)aol.com <Ed0248(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Model A radiator specs |
>Can anyone tell me how wide a Model A radiator is? Would like to find a
core
>to cut in half, like mentioned in Air Camper article. Plan to modify
Kapler
>c-section to allow radiator to go behind leading edge when adjusting wing
for
>rigging/wt&bal. Need to know how wide to make the opening. Thanks.
>
>Ed Woerle
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: How many 'Scouts? |
I'm working on one in St. thomas, Ont Canada. I've got most of the ripping
done for the entire plane, and the router machining should be started
sometime in june (I'm trying to get all the real dusty work done outside
while I have good weather).
Power will be a Wis-Con A0-32 (basically a shrunk A-65), with electrics and
redrive. The final weight and power on the engine will be very close to the
PackMag twin BHP mentions in the Flying and Glider manual. Prop will be a
GSC wood, 72x42 (original prop size). The only other changes I am making
from the plans is the 3-piece wing (I'm using GN-1 spar drawing with
original airfoil and spacing) and a tailwheel instead of a skid.
The lumber is Spruce, 12-14gpi I dried myself (took a year). I'm lucky
enought to be able to get most of the materials locally, and sooner or later
I'll be putting up a budget page on Aircamper.Org- it might be interesting
to see what we are spending on these things in different areas.
The big question in my mind right now is glue. Epoxy or Cryoacrilite(sp).
The later is available about 2 blocks from my, is waterproff and gap
filling, and in my own tests I have never broken at the joint, always beside
it. I just cant seem to find any info on longer term/ hi temp properties-
But at $5 a bottle its worth digging.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How many 'Scouts? |
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, how many of us are building Sky Scouts? I see lots of
> pictures and read of lots of Air Campers, but not many of the single-place
> brothers are talked about. Just wondering.
>
> Ed Woerle
Larry Harrison(Bainbridge GA), builder of Poplar Piet , now has a Scout
on the gear, tail group complete, controls complete, ready to start the
ribs, etc Looks really good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | arkiesacres(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: How many 'Scouts? |
>Larry Harrison(Bainbridge GA), builder of Poplar Piet , now has a
>Scout
>on the gear, tail group complete, controls complete, ready to start
>the
>ribs, etc Looks really good.
Does that mean he built it out of Poplar wood?
If so I have 12 Piets growing in the back 40.
Gordon
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Now what did I do? |
Steve E, somehow I wound up with two, count 'em, two subscriptions to the
list. Please un-subscribe me from one of them, or tell me how to go about it
myself. It's embarrassing when an O.F. sends HIMSELF junk mail!
Thanks a bunch, for both the favor and the great list.
Ed Woerle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Now what did I do? |
Ed;
Who you calling Junk Mail!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Glue: west system |
This might be of interest to CDN builders- I just got back from Lee Valley
Tools- complete West system kit-pump, book and 38 oz bottle for $62 CDN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Re Scout:
Ed Snyder, who previously built an Aircamper, and has another one
under construction, finished a Model A Scout last year.
He flew it a few hours, but was grounded with engine trouble. The
engine work was done this winter & as soon as the weather warms,he will
fly again.
He says that the aircraft flys great except there is zero foward
visibility. In the Scout configuration, the pilot sits directly behind
the radiator.
Ed asked me to ask the group if anyone has plans for a fwd mounted
cowling radiator.
Mike B ( Piet N 687MB )
Re
Scout:
Ed
Snyder, who
previously built an Aircamper, and has another one under construction,
finished
a Model A Scout last year.
size3>
He flew it a
few hours, but
was grounded with engine trouble. The engine work was done this winter
as
soon as the weather warms,he will fly again.
size3>
He says that
the aircraft
flys great except there is zero foward visibility. In the Scout
configuration,
the pilot sits directly behind the radiator.
size3>
Ed asked me to
ask the group
if anyone has plans for a fwd mounted cowling
radiator.
size3>
Mike B ( Piet
N 687MB
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Hi group===don't know if anyone out there is interested but I just came
across a fellow with a running Lycoming 125hp gpu sitting on an air-boat
(aluminum Landau) with trailer. he is selling for 2500$. someone may
want to grab the engine and recoop half of his investment by selling the
boat and trailer.for those interested his info is;Robert Lila, 33164 N
Eastview, Gages Lake, Ill...847-223-0607..this would make a dandy Piet
puller.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How many 'Scouts? |
arkiesacres(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> >Larry Harrison(Bainbridge GA), builder of Poplar Piet , now has a
> >Scout
> >on the gear, tail group complete, controls complete, ready to start
> >the
> >ribs, etc Looks really good.
>
> Does that mean he built it out of Poplar wood?
>
> If so I have 12 Piets growing in the back 40.
>
> Gordon
He did and you do.
>
> __________
________________________________________________________________________________
To Ken Beanlands,
Was looking at one of your recent messages to the Pietenpol
Discussion Group in which you mentioned the loss of the pro-
totype Canadair Challenger and its test pilot.
I knew Norm Ronaasen well. We were classmates during high
school here in Camrose (Camrose Lutheran College, in those
days) and graduated in June 1947. He was an exceptional per-
son and, from all accounts, a superb pilot. We, who knew him
well, still mourn his loss.
During the early 1960's he was based at Cold Lake flying CF104's
and one summer they were temporarily moved to Namao. I hap-
pened to be home on time off from flying helicopters on the Alberta
Forest Service contract when he phoned me and came over for a
visit at our home in Sherwood Park. We had a great time reminisc-
ing and getting caught up on things. He invited me to the officers'
mess for lunch the next day, and I got shown around the base by
Norm and his buddies. Even got to sit in the cockpit of a CF104!
That was the only time we saw each other after high school, but we
sort of kept in touch via mutual friends and acquaintances until his
tragic death in 1980.
Norm built an nice Emeraude which is kept by his brother Arne who
lives on the family farm in the Barrhead area. Apparently, he carried
pieces of that Emeraude all over during the years he was posted to
different places with the RCAF. I'm not sure just when he was able to
complete it, but it was under construction for quite a few years.
I have a video tape from The Fifth Estate TV program made during the
early 1980's that covers Norm's life and the events leading to his
death.
If you have not seen it, I could make you a copy.
As you pointed out, deep stalls are generally a problem with aircraft
that
have high-mounted horizontal tail surfaces. The Challenger has this and
I recall that the prototype BAC111 (I think it was) airliner was lost
with the
entire test crew when it simply mushed all the way to the ground in a
deep
stall. It also had a T-tail. I'm very glad Pietenpols (and Christavias)
don't
have them!
Cheers,
Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | How many 'Scouts? |
Ed,
Although I can not name names, I have three customers who are building Sky
Scouts. Although the catalog requests between the Pietenpol and the Sky Scout
are about 30 to 1, you are a dedicated bunch!!!
I have enjoyed being able to support their building process, and look forward
to the day of their first flight as much as they are...so please add 3 to
your list of builders.
Steve Speidel
Replicraft Aviation
________________________________________________________________________________
Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original design
plans?......or should I be thinking of converting something like
motorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn about
manufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy the
appearance of the larger wheels.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Mike Cuy used brakes from a go cart, his rims are Motorcycle and he made
the hubs. He reports it works well. I plan to do much the same thing.
You might want to get his video, it shows what he did, also has a lot of
great tips and flying scenes. Well worth the $.
John Duprey
dannymac wrote:
>
> Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original design
> plans?......or should I be thinking of converting something like
> motorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn about
> manufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy the
> appearance of the larger wheels.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bowdler(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
I agree Mike Cuy's video is worth viewing. His wheel design is
similar to what Frank Pavliga and Howard Henderson did on their beautiful
ships. Frank and Howard don't have brakes.
Another alternative is modified motorcycle wheels. The major
concern is side loads imposed on the wheels. I agree this could be a
problem with the "cub type" gear, less so with the straight axle.
What I did was copied from Brian Kenney. He and I used Honda
motorcycle rear wheels with large hubs and short spokes. The bearings
are pressed out, internal stiffeners reduced by machining to accomodate
the larger axle and bronze bushings placed in the bearing races. Brakes
are already there and stopping the axle rotation when applying brakes is
easy.
Brian made a sketch for me which I resketched (before my days of
computing) that I will gladly share with any list member who sends me
their snail mail off list.
Have fun!
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
What kind of pistons do you 'A' guys you when you rebuild?
Richard
===
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Has anyone investigated some of the beefier mountain bike wheels- It might
save some weight, and some of them take a hell of beating without damage on
the bikes- Probably need to bake a custom hub and shorter spokes. I'm still
quite a ways from needing to worry about it, but I'll be looking into this
for my scout eventually
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
I did a similar thing. Used 21" motorcycle wheels with drum brakes. The
issue of side loading and wider hubs was addressed by making a new spoke
flange for the side opposite the drum and extending the hub width. If you
look around you will find some dirt bikes use removable spoke flanges. The
New spoke flange has a larger OD and allows the use of the original spokes.
the hub is bored out to take 1.500" bronze bushings and the wheel rides on
1.500" 4130 tube. The tube was machined for threaded hub nuts. The problem
now is to design a method of absorbing the axle rotation as the brakes are
applied. Mike Cuy's solution merits some study.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: bowdler(at)juno.com
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 7:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels
> I agree Mike Cuy's video is worth viewing. His wheel design is
>similar to what Frank Pavliga and Howard Henderson did on their beautiful
>ships. Frank and Howard don't have brakes.
> Another alternative is modified motorcycle wheels. The major
>concern is side loads imposed on the wheels. I agree this could be a
>problem with the "cub type" gear, less so with the straight axle.
> What I did was copied from Brian Kenney. He and I used Honda
>motorcycle rear wheels with large hubs and short spokes. The bearings
>are pressed out, internal stiffeners reduced by machining to accomodate
>the larger axle and bronze bushings placed in the bearing races. Brakes
>are already there and stopping the axle rotation when applying brakes is
>easy.
> Brian made a sketch for me which I resketched (before my days of
>computing) that I will gladly share with any list member who sends me
>their snail mail off list.
>Have fun!
>Tom
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Now what did I do? |
It's like having a wife and a girl-friend...you love 'em both but can't
afford but one, don't need but one, more than one is too much of a good thing.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Hi Mike!
As a part-time bicycle mechanic trying to build an aeroplane(! :-), I would
say that MTB rims won't make a good wheels for a Peit. The spokes we use
on even MTB wheels are only 2mm dia. (.080 ) so if you go to a bigger
spoke, you could seriously weaken the rim. Also, the tires are only 2-2
1/2" wide on a 559mm rim (aka 22" bead seat dia. -- inflated dia of the
wheel is about 26 1/2" )
Now, if you were making an Ultra-Piet, I could set you up with a neat set
of BMX "aero" freestyle rims ("flames" optional! ;-) that would be strong
enough!
Sun Metal makes some very good Alloy bike & motorcycle rims -- and the
better "Hog" custom shops will have a spoke machine to cut & roll thread
your spokes to size. Lacing up your own wheels isn't too hard of a job --
you will need a simple frame to support the axle & let you gauge the
out-of-round, wobble & centering of the rim on the hub. (on a semi-related
note, I have some bits & pieces from a '46 T-Craft (tail feathers, etc that
use (we think) some 30's Harley spoke nipples for the tail brace wires --
the nipples are threaded #8-36UNF)
Mike
Pretty Prairie, KS
P.S. Sure seems like there are a lot of "Mike"s in this group! Well over
the national average I'll bet! Might have to go to "call signs"! ;-)
> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Spoked Wheels
> Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 10:12 AM
>
> Has anyone investigated some of the beefier mountain bike wheels- It
might
> save some weight, and some of them take a hell of beating without damage
on
> the bikes- Probably need to bake a custom hub and shorter spokes. I'm
still
> quite a ways from needing to worry about it, but I'll be looking into
this
> for my scout eventually
>
> Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Danny,
I made my wheels from 18" motorcycle rims ( 3"x18") tires. Made a hub from
4130 tubing with end plates fabricated and welded to the shoulder machined
on each end. Then found Harley Davidson spoke sets to match. Got a thumbs
up from my AP. His only concern was the shoulder on the spoke near the hub.
But if you look at the front wheel of a "Hawg", this is what they have.
I have pics on AirCamper.org. Check out...
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehub1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel2.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel3.jpg
The white bushing is just a temp. that I made out of PVC water pipe
fitting , so I could true the wheel on the 11/2" axle shaft. Making brass
bushings now.
If anyone is interested I can post hub mat'l sizes, spoke kit #.s etc. I'll
have brakes fitted to them before the Piet is done.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 1:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spoked Wheels
>Are the larger spoked wheels used on the camper in the original design
>plans?......or should I be thinking of converting something like
>motorcycle wheels? I'm afraid I'd have a lot to learn about
>manufacturing my own. And what about brakes? I really enjoy the
>appearance of the larger wheels.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Spoked Wheels |
I made mine from 3"x18" rims, with H.D. spokes and hub made out of 4130.
My AP gave a thumbs up.
The pics are on
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehub1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel1.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel2.jpg
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbewheel3.jpg
White bushings are temp. made out of PVC pipe fitting, I'm making brass now,
and I will fit brakes before Piet completion.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 12:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spoked Wheels
>Hi Mike!
>
>As a part-time bicycle mechanic trying to build an aeroplane(! :-), I would
>say that MTB rims won't make a good wheels for a Peit. The spokes we use
>on even MTB wheels are only 2mm dia. (.080 ) so if you go to a bigger
>spoke, you could seriously weaken the rim. Also, the tires are only 2-2
>1/2" wide on a 559mm rim (aka 22" bead seat dia. -- inflated dia of the
>wheel is about 26 1/2" )
>
>Now, if you were making an Ultra-Piet, I could set you up with a neat set
>of BMX "aero" freestyle rims ("flames" optional! ;-) that would be strong
>enough!
>
>Sun Metal makes some very good Alloy bike & motorcycle rims -- and the
>better "Hog" custom shops will have a spoke machine to cut & roll thread
>your spokes to size. Lacing up your own wheels isn't too hard of a job --
>you will need a simple frame to support the axle & let you gauge the
>out-of-round, wobble & centering of the rim on the hub. (on a semi-related
>note, I have some bits & pieces from a '46 T-Craft (tail feathers, etc that
>use (we think) some 30's Harley spoke nipples for the tail brace wires --
>the nipples are threaded #8-36UNF)
>
>Mike
>Pretty Prairie, KS
>
>P.S. Sure seems like there are a lot of "Mike"s in this group! Well over
>the national average I'll bet! Might have to go to "call signs"! ;-)
>
>----------
>> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: Spoked Wheels
>> Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 10:12 AM
>>
>> Has anyone investigated some of the beefier mountain bike wheels- It
>might
>> save some weight, and some of them take a hell of beating without damage
>on
>> the bikes- Probably need to bake a custom hub and shorter spokes. I'm
>still
>> quite a ways from needing to worry about it, but I'll be looking into
>this
>> for my scout eventually
>>
>> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: washout (and MUSHING)) |
Danny,
I'm forwarding Ken Beanland's letter in case you have not seen it. He
explains what happens with a deep stall situation: basically, the wake
from the wing flows backward and upward to render the elevators inef-
fective and pitch control is lost. The drogue chute Ken mentions was
installed during testing to recover from deep stalls (and spins), should
one develop.
My late friend, Norm, was exploring high angle of attack behavior when
one engine quit and a deep stall resulted. They deployed the chute and
the nose dropped, breaking the stall. Unfortunately, they couldn't get rid
of it because the release systems all failed. And they couldn't get the dead
engine lit, either. With all that drag and one engine out, the airplane was
going down. Norm ordered the two other crewmembers to bail out, which
they did. He didn't have time to get himself out and was killed. The
surviving
crew members tell the whole story and credit Norm with saving their lives.
The whole thing was a classic example of multiple failures resulting in the
loss of a fine pilot and a valuable prototype. From all accounts, Norm was
extremely unhappy with the condition of the a/c and had reported problems,
including the sick engine, previously. Murphy's Law then kicked in.
An aeronautical engineer, who knew Norm well, told me that even with two
good engines he wouldn't have had enough thrust to fly with the chute
attach-
ed. Perhaps he could have successfully crash-landed on the desert surface
if he had both engines to bring the nose up some. We will likely never know.
Hope this and Ken's letter explain what occurs in a deep stall. The
Pietenpol
is not susceptible to deep stalls of this sort, you will be glad to know.
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 3:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: washout
>I think you have mistaken the "deep stall" phenomena. The deep stalls
>are usually associated with T or high mounted vertical
>stabalizers/elevators. The normal down pitch after a stall is due to the
>fact that the elevator/stab is still capable of providing some
>stabalizing force even after the wing has stopped producing lift. If, for
>some reason, the stabalizer becomes ineffective, the plane will continue
>to descend in a nose high, full stall attitude. This can occur on a T-tail
>plane or any plane where the tail is 5-15 degrees above the chordline of
>the wing. The turbulent air from the stalled wing will "mask " the
>elevator and stabalizer making it ineffective. At this point, only
>vigerous application of power, elevators and flaps can help break from the
>stall.
>
>You can see the result of this on an F-4 Phantom. Even though it's not a
>T-tail, the delta wing and engine outlet put the root of the stabilators
>in the deep stall position. You will note that the stabilators have a very
>prnounced down angle to get them out of the wing shadow.
>
>Actually, the prototype Canadair 601 Challenger was lost in just this
>manner. The test plane had been equipped with an emergency drouge chute
>attached to the last bulkhead inside the tailcone. Sure enough, a deep
>stall developed and the test pilot fired the chute which pulled it out of
>the stall. Unfortunately, the explosive bolts used to attach the chute to
>the plane malfunctioned and the chute could not be cut. All of the crew
>bailed out except the pilot. He almost recovered the plane but ran out of
>height and impacted the desert floor. It was speculated that with another
>300-500', he may have recovered enough to land it. The pilot was killed
>instantly.
>
>Ken
>
>On Fri, 7 May 1999, David Scott wrote:
>
>> 2) Limited elevator down force capability will prevent
>>
>>
>> 3) Dihedral angle can help, but not always true.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bowdler(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
As far as axle rotation with DRUM brakes goes, Mike Cuy's method
works but there is an easier way. (Mike has disc brakes and needs to stop
axle rotation as the brake apparatus is welded to his axle)
Brian Kenney used the part of the brake plate that normally
attaches to the motorcycle frame (rear wheels) and attached a cable to it
which connects to a piece of tubing attached with a strap to the front of
the ash piece on the bottom of the wood gear. When the brakes are
applied the cable holds the brake plate in place and the wheel stops.
The axle is held pretty tightly in place by the bungees anyway.
For those who expressed an interest in my sketch of Brian's method,
they'll be in the mail in a few days. In the mean time for those who
asked the wheels come from a mid 70's Honda 360. They are rear wheels
and were obtained at a motorcycle "junkyard". The larger hub gives them
a little different look.
Have fun!
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Walt, Tom, and/or John-spoked wheels |
Guys, I have cub gear on my GN-1 (and honestly don't know right this moment
the length of the axle, or the diameter or it).
Would any of the types of wheels each of you "spoke" of work with cub style
gear? Would any of you guys consider building a set for the cub gear, and
if so, how much would I be looking at ($). Being a woodworker, I'm out of
my league on this part of the project.
You can reply in private if you want.
Thanks!
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Richard
There are two choices for pistons of the A variety. Ford always used
what are refered to as "cam ground" pistons. They have a symetrical cam
shape when cold and expand alond the wrist pin to become cylindrical
when at operating temp. Many old engines when rebuild used a cheaper
solution a "slotted" skirt. that allowed for the expansion. If you use
the original style pison you should be alright.
Some folks are now using pistons from modern engines. There are many
to choose from,mostly from the small block chevy or fords. You need to
know the bore size (3.875" stock") that will clean up your cylinder
walls and then check out the parts catalogues to find a suitable match.
The "slipper skirt" used on the V8 pistons makes no difference to the
application. Weight is a small problem but not at the slow speeds the A
runs. Compression ratio however does matter. Be sure to check out the
wrist pin to piston crown height. The piston should be flush to very
slightly above the cylinder head deck at TDC. Be certain it will not
touch the head. A little modeling clay placed on the piston and with the
head in place turn the engine over. (no, not upside down ;-) ) remove
the head and cut the clay in half and view the thickness. This will be
your piston to head clearance. Wrist pins sizes can be matched by using
thicker rod bushings.
Hope this isn't too confusing
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 7:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 'A' pistons
>What kind of pistons do you 'A' guys you when you rebuild?
>
>Richard
>
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be
at rest. -Psalm 55:6
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>____
>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
Richard
There are two choices for pistons of the A
variety. Ford
always used what are refered to as cam ground pistons. They
have a
symetrical cam shape when cold and expand alond the wrist pin to become
cylindrical when at operating temp. Many old engines when rebuild used a
cheaper
solution a slotted skirt. that allowed for the
expansion. If
you use the original style pison you should be alright.
Some folks are now using pistons from modern
engines.
There are many to choose from,mostly from the small block chevy or
fords. You
need to know the bore size (3.875 stock) that will clean up
your
cylinder walls and then check out the parts catalogues to find a
suitable match.
The slipper skirt used on the V8 pistons makes no
difference to
the application. Weight is a small problem but not at the slow speeds
the A
runs. Compression ratio however does matter. Be sure to check out the
wrist pin
to piston crown height. The piston should be flush to very
slightly above
the cylinder head deck at TDC. Be certain it will not touch the head. A
little
modeling clay placed on the piston and with the head in place turn the
engine
over. (no, not upside down ;-) ) remove the head and cut the clay in
half and
view the thickness. This will be your piston to head clearance. Wrist
pins sizes
can be matched by using thicker rod bushings.
Hope this isn't too confusing
John Mc
-----Original Message-----From:
Richard DeCosta
Pietenpol Discussion
16, 1999
7:49 AMSubject: 'A' pistonsWhat kind of
pistons do
you 'A' guys you when you
rebuild?RichardMy
homepage:
href"http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder">http://www.AirCamper.org/w3bu=
ilder....Oh
that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm
55:6---------------------------------------------------------=
Visit
www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n
Slow Online
Community!-------------------------------------------------------=
--____
R>Do
You Yahoo!?Free instant messaging and more at
href"http://messenger.yahoo.com">http://messenger.yahoo.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Walt, Tom, and/or John-spoked wheels |
G-BUCO that great looking Piet from Great Britan has large diameter wheels
on split gear as do several of the aircraft on the Aircamper.org site. There
is an advantage to this as the braking torque is easily transfered to the A
frames of the gear. As to cost ... No idea as most of what I do is done by
scrounging.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Walt, Tom, and/or John-spoked wheels
>Guys, I have cub gear on my GN-1 (and honestly don't know right this moment
>the length of the axle, or the diameter or it).
>
>Would any of the types of wheels each of you "spoke" of work with cub style
>gear? Would any of you guys consider building a set for the cub gear, and
>if so, how much would I be looking at ($). Being a woodworker, I'm out of
>my league on this part of the project.
>
>You can reply in private if you want.
>Thanks!
>
>Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Mueller" <rmueller7(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Model T show in Belvidere |
Stopped by the "Little Hershey" Model T/Car Show/Swap meet, and was very
disappointed. Not a single decent A block to be seen. Only 1 block for sale
(of any kind), and it was a severely rusted A block (it had crust rust in
the cylinders) that looked about ready for the boat anchor conversion. A
bunch o' mint Fords to gaze at, but no engines to be had. Ah well.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Is it alright to download the images from the library and save them for
future ref?
Beautiful photos, guys.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Doug,
Thanks for the article on the Nieuport Corvair. Very Interesting.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Deep stalls.... |
He's a guy I would love to have met. The story I related was my
recolection of that very Fifth Estate TV program you mentioned. If I
remember correctly, wasn't he also involved with the ill-fated Avro Arrow
test flight program? The show certainly portrayed him as a Canadian hero,
which he rightly deserved.
Ken
On Sat, 15 May 1999, Graham Hansen wrote:
> I have a video tape from The Fifth Estate TV program made during the
> early 1980's that covers Norm's life and the events leading to his death.
> If you have not seen it, I could make you a copy.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Guys:
Would any of you Canadian guys (or American for that matter) that are close
to the border be willing to fly your Piets to NW Pa for a fly in on June 6?
(If the weather permits)
We are having a dress rehearsal this year for a Millennium fly-in on July
16th, 2000 that will focus on old airplanes and old cars at Port Meadville
PA (GKJ).[35 mi. S. of ERIE]
If you do get here, I will buy you breakfast and fill up the tanks!!!
Plus, I can get some helpful tips for my Piet!!
Thanks, Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
'Tom Bowdler'
Pretty good offer, I wish I could. I'm still trying to work out the bugs in
my new piet. with the hopes of flying to Brodhead and Oshkosh this year.
Also my daughter has her Squdron annual inspection that week-end. I will
pass along this information on your behalf. I know there are a few Piets. on
both sides of the border.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
Guys:
Would any of you Canadian guys (or American for that matter) that are close
to the border be willing to fly your Piets to NW Pa for a fly in on June 6?
(If the weather permits)
We are having a dress rehearsal this year for a Millennium fly-in on July
16th, 2000 that will focus on old airplanes and old cars at Port Meadville
PA (GKJ).[35 mi. S. of ERIE]
If you do get here, I will buy you breakfast and fill up the tanks!!!
Plus, I can get some helpful tips for my Piet!!
Thanks, Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> |
| Subject: | Model A Ford Magneto Ignition |
Hello,
I am monitoring this group for a retired friend who is planning to build a
Piet powered by a Model A engine. He is making good progress on the engine,
and plans to utilize a magneto ignition. The magneto he needs is a WICO
SPEC-XV1509. Anybody have an extra one??
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John R Bayer <jrbayer2(at)juno.com> |
Hi Richard:
Some go to Egge Machine in SO. Cal. I think they are on the Internet.
Or check out the "Secrets of Speed Society" homepage, or the 4-Ever-4
club, if they have one. I think you can use 283 Chev. pistons, but not
sure what rods.
John Bayer
writes:
>What kind of pistons do you 'A' guys you when you rebuild?
>
>Richard
>===
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be
>at rest. -Psalm 55:6
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>____
>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John R Bayer <jrbayer2(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A Ford Magneto Ignition |
Anybody know what mags of new production are most easily adapted? Have
never worked with mag ignition before.
John Bayer
jrbayer2(at)juno.com
Meany Magnet School Piet Project
>Hello,
>
>I am monitoring this group for a retired friend who is planning to
>build a
>Piet powered by a Model A engine. He is making good progress on the
>engine,
>and plans to utilize a magneto ignition. The magneto he needs is a
>WICO
>SPEC-XV1509. Anybody have an extra one??
>
>Glenn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I finally found my engine, and it's only 8 miles from me! The guy that
has it (and is going to restore most of it for me, since Im no expert)
is Jim Harris of http://www.forengines.com. He's going to doing most or
all of the work (while I watch eagerly over his shoulder!) over the
next 6 months. The engine was manufactured in 1930, and is in super
shape.
Im psyched!
Richard
===
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
Richard;
Congratulations. Are you going stock or modified? (how
many HP?)
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, all I can say is that it will conform almost exactly to the 1932
plans by BHP. There are a couple modifications I MAY do, but Im not
sure yet. Hoping to end up in the 65 HP range.
Richard
--- Bill Talbert wrote:
> Richard;
>
> Congratulations. Are you going stock or modified? (how
> many HP?)
>
> Bill
>
>
===
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Yahoo Richard! Sounds good!
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 7:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Engine
>I finally found my engine, and it's only 8 miles from me! The guy that
>has it (and is going to restore most of it for me, since Im no expert)
>is Jim Harris of http://www.forengines.com. He's going to doing most or
>all of the work (while I watch eagerly over his shoulder!) over the
>next 6 months. The engine was manufactured in 1930, and is in super
>shape.
>
>Im psyched!
>
>Richard
>===
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at
rest. -Psalm 55:6
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>____
>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Ok Guys,
After talking to some of you and to some local A&P's I've made a
preliminary decision to power my plane with a Continental 65-100.
This is my first plane and I don't look forward to building a motor.
I'll save that for the next one maybe. Some of the mechs have told me
that Lycomings may be a little easier to work on......some disagree. I'm
curious why I havent heard of any of you using them. Any answers here?
Anyway, several people have mentioned the advantages of having a little
extra power, is there any disadvantage to the 100 over the 65? Also, is
there a difference in the engine mount?
Thanks for all your help so far.
Eager to get started, DannyMac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bowdler(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Robert, Daniel, Mike and Earl,
My sketch and description of Brian Kenney's Honda wire wheel
conversion will be in the mail this morning.
Any othes who want it I still have some copies or will make more.
Send me your snail mail off list.
Have fun!
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bowdler(at)juno.com |
Smart move choosing Continental Danny,
A friend had a Lycoming 65 powered J2 and it had no guts. I have
heard the Lycs were optimistically rated at 65 hp but 45 was more like
it.
Peter Mc Hugh has an 0200 Pietenpol and thinks that is fine. I've
also seen 85's mounted on Piets. I'm using a 65 Continental which is
more than adequate. They are quite popular and there should be lots of
them around from all the old cubs, t-crafts and airknockers. Mine came
from a Champ the owner was upgrading to an 85.
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Tom,
This is how we learn.
bowdler(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Smart move choosing Continental Danny,
> A friend had a Lycoming 65 powered J2 and it had no guts. I have
> heard the Lycs were optimistically rated at 65 hp but 45 was more like
> it.
> Peter Mc Hugh has an 0200 Pietenpol and thinks that is fine. I've
> also seen 85's mounted on Piets. I'm using a 65 Continental which is
> more than adequate. They are quite popular and there should be lots of
> them around from all the old cubs, t-crafts and airknockers. Mine came
> from a Champ the owner was upgrading to an 85.
> Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net> |
Check out this site
http://www.modelatrader.com/partsdirectory/directorymenu.html
ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Smart move choosing Continental Danny,
> A friend had a Lycoming 65 powered J2 and it had no guts. I have
>heard the Lycs were optimistically rated at 65 hp but 45 was more like
>it.
Danny- What Tom cites above here is what I've found too. There is
a big difference between a Lyc 65 and Cont. 65. Parts are more difficult
and more $$$ for the Lyc too. As I recall the Lyc. head has both cyls. cast
in place so if you have a problem w/ one, you have to replace the whole assy.
Mike C.
Smart move choosing Continental Danny,
A friend had a Lycoming 65 powered J2 and it
had no guts. I have
heard the Lycs were optimistically rated at 65 hp but 45 was more
like
it.
Danny- What Tom cites above here is what I've found too. There
is
a big difference between a Lyc 65 and Cont. 65. Parts
are more difficult
and more $$$ for the Lyc too. As I recall the Lyc. head has both
cyls. cast
in place so if you have a problem w/ one, you have to replace the whole
assy.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Spoked Wheels |
Would love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I am
just starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. I
have my "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad
Johnson, 1307 Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:24:06 -0700 (PDT)
Any chance you could scan it for posting on AirCamper.org? Richard
--- Chad Johnson wrote:
> Would love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I
> am just starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I
> can. I have my "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again.
> Chad Johnson, 1307 Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bowdler(at)juno.com [SMTP:bowdler(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 10:53 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Spoked Wheels
>
> Robert, Daniel, Mike and Earl,
> My sketch and description of Brian Kenney's Honda wire wheel
> conversion will be in the mail this morning.
> Any othes who want it I still have some copies or will make
> more.
> Send me your snail mail off list.
> Have fun!
> Tom
> __________
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
> http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/ms-tnef
===
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk> |
I'm new to the list, and I don't even have a set of plans yet, but I do
know that Continentals - A65 to 0-200 are used here, and that the C90
appears to be the preferred engine. I believe people are also using Subarus
and Air Cams. You see, we don't have a lot of Model A Fords over here, and
I think they would be a little underpowered for our green and crowded land.
I'm thinking about a Subaru EA81, as they are a fair bit cheaper then the
alternatives.
Leo in England
>....I've made a
>preliminary decision to power my plane with a Continental 65-100.
>This is my first plane and I don't look forward to building a motor.
>I'll save that for the next one maybe. Some of the mechs have told me
>that Lycomings may be a little easier to work on......some disagree. I'm
>curious why I havent heard of any of you using them.
________________________________________________________________________________
OK, That pretty much explains about the Lycoming.......What about the
Cont.100? Don mentions that his plans include the motor-mount for the
65 hp.....what about the 100? Do they use the same mount?
Obviously the weight diff can't be substantial, so if I can get a
100 for nearly the same price as a 65, shouldn't I go for more bang for
my buck?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Michael Cuy's video notes Buchanan Spokes as a reference for his wheels. Had
used them
prior to seeing the tape for redoing my Honda motorcycle wheels as they are only
3 miles from
me. They have moved to a new industrial park The current info is:
Buchanan Spoke & Rim, Inc.
805 West 8th Street
Azusa, CA. 91702 Phone: (626) 969-4655 Fax (626) 812-0243
They have a great catalogue of rim, hubs, etc. All high quality aftermarket
stuff, and not
cheap.
They charged me $1.00 each for 9 gauge stainless spokes and nipples (will pull
1,000 pounds
each!) for $36.00, plus $54.00 labor to lace and true each wheel. Paid $10.00
each at a
motorcycle salvage yard, polished them out with Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish ($7.50)
and put
in new bearings and brake pads. Hub came with an arm to prevent brake rotation
that can easily
be affixed to the gear.
Note: There are a LOT more choices for tires if you 18" rims.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>65 hp.....what about the 100? Do they use the same mount?
> Obviously the weight diff can't be substantial, so if I can get a
>100 for nearly the same price as a 65, shouldn't I go for more bang for
>my buck?
Danny- Mike Brusilow has a nice 0-200 powered Piet and it gets out
nicely. Don't quote me, but I think the A-65 and 0-200 might use the
same case, thus mount. I'm hoping for additional guys to respond for
you though if that's not true.
If you want the 65 Cont. it will perform wonderfully for you if you do
the following: Build light, build light, and build light.
It might seem fun to have a starter, battery, elect. radios, instruments
in both cockpits, strobes, etc.....that is, util you find yourself on a hot
day trying to clear some wires or trees on takeoff. I realize some guys do
require radios at their home bases so this isn't a stab at them by any
means..just try to keep it light and you'll get some good performance.
A sick 65 Cont. is
another thing to avoid if you can.
Mike C.
65 hp.....what about the 100? Do they use the same mount?
Obviously the weight diff can't be substantial, so
if I can get a
100 for nearly the same price as a 65, shouldn't I go for more bang
for
my buck?
DannyMac
Danny- Mike Brusilow has a nice 0-200 powered Piet and it gets out
nicely. Don't quote me, but I think the A-65 and 0-200 might use
the
same case, thus mount. I'm hoping for additional guys to respond
for
you though if that's not true.
If you want the 65 Cont. it will perform
wonderfully for you if you do
the following: Build light, build light, and build light.
It might seem fun to have a starter, battery, elect. radios,
instruments
in both cockpits, strobes, etc.....that is, util you find yourself on a
hot
day trying to clear some wires or trees on takeoff. I realize some
guys do
require radios at their home bases so this isn't a stab at them by any
means..just try to keep it light and you'll get some good
performance.
A sick 65 Cont. is
another thing to avoid if you can.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Danny...
Just a thought: no matter which engine you use, you should probably overhaul
it before flight, unless you can get a terrific deal on a recently overhauled
engine (and I mean both operating hours AND calendar!). I somewhat agree
with the Continental over Lycoming. Parts are available and not TOO
expensive. Somehow my overhaul manuals for these engines escape me right
now, but I would almost bet money that the mount for any of the "C" engines
is identical. As for weight differences, here's what I was able to come up
with:
A-65-8 170 pounds dry
A-75-8 170 pounds
C-75-8 177 pounds (this is a no accessories case)
C-85-8 178 pounds
C-90-8 184 pounds
O-200A 190 pounds
All of the -8 engines are not set up for electrical systems or starters.
Some may have flange cranks, but others have a tapered shaft, requiring an
adapter. The O-200 comes in basically one flavor...starter and
generaror/alternator. Main differences in the dash numbers is for pull vs.
key starter, alternator vs. generator, and even a fuel injected model (also
available in the C-85 and C-90). The choice is yours. Will the "A" engine
be less expensive to obtain/overhaul? UNDOUBTEDLY. Will it be less
dependable? Questionable, with proper care of both. Less power? Uh huh.
More fun? YOU BETCHA!!!
The little Continentals are fairly simple to overhaul, and sip fuel (I get a
little less than 5 gph on my '66 Cessna 150)
No matter which way you go, the only person that should make up your mind is
you. Weigh all the factors, make your decision, and enjoy your Piet.
Ed (working on airplanes too darned long to be still doing it) Woerle
________________________________________________________________________________
Not to sidetrack the discussion, but maybe someone could answer me a
quick question about the 'A' engine installation: I am under the
impression (due to lack of knowledge?) that planes with an 'A' engine
do not have an electrical system. Is this true? If so, how does one do
about adding one (I will very likely need a transponder and radio,
since I am within the Portland Class C airspace, or if I hangar it
elsewhere, will need to fly into 'C' airspace quite often).
Richard
--- Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
> Danny...
> Just a thought: no matter which engine you use, you should probably
> overhaul
> it before flight, unless you can get a terrific deal on a recently
> overhauled
> engine (and I mean both operating hours AND calendar!). I somewhat
> agree
> with the Continental over Lycoming. Parts are available and not TOO
> expensive. Somehow my overhaul manuals for these engines escape me
> right
> now, but I would almost bet money that the mount for any of the "C"
> engines
> is identical. As for weight differences, here's what I was able to
> come up
> with:
>
> A-65-8 170 pounds dry
>
> A-75-8 170 pounds
>
> C-75-8 177 pounds (this is a no accessories case)
>
> C-85-8 178 pounds
>
> C-90-8 184 pounds
>
> O-200A 190 pounds
>
> All of the -8 engines are not set up for electrical systems or
> starters.
> Some may have flange cranks, but others have a tapered shaft,
> requiring an
> adapter. The O-200 comes in basically one flavor...starter and
> generaror/alternator. Main differences in the dash numbers is for
> pull vs.
> key starter, alternator vs. generator, and even a fuel injected model
> (also
> available in the C-85 and C-90). The choice is yours. Will the "A"
> engine
> be less expensive to obtain/overhaul? UNDOUBTEDLY. Will it be less
> dependable? Questionable, with proper care of both. Less power? Uh
> huh.
> More fun? YOU BETCHA!!!
>
> The little Continentals are fairly simple to overhaul, and sip fuel
> (I get a
> little less than 5 gph on my '66 Cessna 150)
>
> No matter which way you go, the only person that should make up your
> mind is
> you. Weigh all the factors, make your decision, and enjoy your Piet.
>
> Ed (working on airplanes too darned long to be still doing it) Woerle
>
>
===
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
....Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
-Psalm 55:6
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
____
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lightsey, Mark - TP2MAL" <MLightsey(at)socalgas.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Model A Ford Magneto Ignition |
On my Corben Super Ace, I used a Slick 4301 with good results.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 2:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Ford Magneto Ignition
Anybody know what mags of new production are most easily adapted? Have
never worked with mag ignition before.
John Bayer
jrbayer2(at)juno.com
Meany Magnet School Piet Project
>Hello,
>
>I am monitoring this group for a retired friend who is planning to
>build a
>Piet powered by a Model A engine. He is making good progress on the
>engine,
>and plans to utilize a magneto ignition. The magneto he needs is a
>WICO
>SPEC-XV1509. Anybody have an extra one??
>
>Glenn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Chad;
How close are you to the Flint Hills area?
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 11:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Spoked Wheels
Would love to have your sketch, thank you for making it available. I am
just starting the "pietenpol path" and am gathering all info I can. I have
my "A" stripped and ready for assembly. Thanks again. Chad Johnson, 1307
Eastmoor Drive, McPherson, Kansas, 67460.
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bowdler(at)juno.com [SMTP:bowdler(at)juno.com] |
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 10:53 AM
| Subject: | Re: Spoked Wheels |
Robert, Daniel, Mike and Earl,
My sketch and description of Brian Kenney's Honda wire wheel
conversion will be in the mail this morning.
Any othes who want it I still have some copies or will make more.
Send me your snail mail off list.
Have fun!
Tom
__________
April 30, 1999 - May 18, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-as