Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-au
May 31, 1999 - June 08, 1999
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: not much difference |
Gents;
Ref the metal fittings, it a BIG time saver to buy the pre-cut strips! Just
cut, bend and "polish" the edges. As on the Aircamper, my Scout fittings
needed to be longer, up to 1/4" in most cases. My fittings were all pre-made
so when final assembly came along, I had a tough time getting bolts in and
things to "fit up". I don't know how they got bolts/nuts to fit
originally........Next time, I would make the fittings as I go AND longer as
required.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas E Bowdler
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 8:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
>>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings.
>>did everyone use .125 for all?
>>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?
>
> Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,
>Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness.
> I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. The
>plane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's.
> Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy the
>pre-sheared strips
>they sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend.
> I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittings
>first. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatch
>the fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember to
>do as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other parts
>attach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.
>Been there,
>Tom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAM & JAN MARINUCCI |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage glueing |
Fellow Builders.......One huge question I have is how do you get the exact
taper at the tailpost so that it matches properly when pulled together for
gluing? I've been mulling over this for some time now , any suggestions
would really be appreciated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Swanson
Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage glueing
>Richard-
>I agree with Earl's story. I glued everything forward of the rear seat,
>including the seat back, before pulling the tail pieces together. One work
>of caution- be sure when you glue the floor in, and then when pulling the
>tail together, that the fuse is exactly square. I used a plumb line from
>the center of the front cross piece to the center of the tail post. I made
>marks on each cross piece to be sure I was square all the way to the back.
>This was very helpful when mitering the tailpost pieces together.
>
>Its exciting when the tail comes together and it looks like it might fly!
>
>Al Swanson
>
>
>>Richard;
>> In my Humble opinion, I would glue the x pieces in place back to the
point
>>of where the fuselage would start to taper when you pull the tail posts
>>together. Glue the floor in along with all the x piece gussetts. You will
be
>>pleasently surprised at how strong the thing becomes when the floor is in.
>>After that has dried, pull the two tail posts together and begin filling
in
>>the balance of the x pieces......the floor will keep your nerves calm by
>>absorbing all that x member compression.....the seat back will do this
>>too.........The only devation from the stock Scout plans I made was at the
>>seat back on up to the firewall. I made the fuselage two inches wider to
>>accompanying my size. A stock A/C is tight....the Scout is two inches
>>narrower in general and three inches narrower at the seat back. I mention
>>this because with the seat back in and the floor on, pulling the fuselage
>>halves together was rough enough with the short fuselage. With the same
>>length but 3" wider at the seat, it was really a strain to match up the
>>tailposts! Glueing in the seatback and floor made this pulling fairly easy
>>but nervewracking non the less.
>>Earl Myers
>>
>>Mike Cuy, back to you, 10-4!
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: bwm
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 8:32 PM
>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>
>>
>>>Richard DeCosta wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I now have my 2 fuse sides upside-down in the the jig and all the
>>>> various cross-pieces cut. I have been clamping them in place in
>>>> preperation for glueing, and have noticed considerable strain on the
>>>> wood durring this process. Should I glue the 3/16" ply floor on at the
>>>> same time as the cross pieces underneath, or will it hold ok by me just
>>>> glueing the cross-pieces in? I dont have the ply for the floor yet, and
>>>> wont have for probably 2-3 weeks. If it's too much for just the cross
>>>> pieces, Ill wait til I have the ply.
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>> p.s. it finally looks like a plane! :)
>>>> ===
>>>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
>>Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Richard,
>>>
>>>I assembled mine by placing it upside down on the table and inserting
>>>and butt-gluing the cross members in. at the time, I didnt have the
>>>floor board material either. I bar-clamped it all together in the front
>>>and pulled the tail post area together , held them with bar clamps and
>>>let it all dry. I went ahead and made and glued up the ttriangular
>>>gussetts at the tailpost (Top and Bottom). Then I carefully removed
>>>(with the help of the missus and a friend) the whole fuselage. BE VERY
>>>SLOW AND CAREFUL HERE!
>>>
>>>Turned it right side up and carefully glued in the gussetts that
>>>connnect the two slab sides . Mine is a GN1 and I dont remember exactly
>>>how a piet is - but mine called for three big gussetts that span from
>>>side to side and are glued to the top of each longeron (locetd just
>>>underneath each instrument panel and one is immediately behind the
>>>firewall). They are about 6" wide by fuse width in length.
>>>
>>>I also temporarily made and fastened gussetts ( 2" x fuse width) AHEAD
>>>of the firewall. You see I left about 4 " ahead of station zero on mine
>>>for ease of handling. This was later cut away when I made my firewll.
>>>
>>>If this is confusing, sorry.
>>>Bottom Line is yes you can remove and continue work before puttin in the
>>>floor-just think ahead.
>>>Good Luck - Its fun when it starts looking like an airplane. You could
>>>also make it a boat I guess :)
>>>
>>>Bert
>>>bwm(at)planttel.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
Where did you find Jenny plans?
--- Adolfo Pando wrote:
> I am actually building a Jenny, but I really
> sympathise with piets and
> would surely like to get a bit more involved.
> I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in
> England, where I
> moved to from Argentina. Any information about
> shipping companies to
> move my bird would also be more than welcome.
> Thanks.
>
>
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage glueing |
Sam;
On my Scout, all I did was pull the two posts together AFTER the floor and
seatback were in and dried. When the two posts touched, I just eyeballed and
drew two parallel lines on the top and bottom of the posts then, using a
belt sander, removed that material so that when the posts came together the
next time, they were nearly flat when mated. Along with all of this you have
to insure everything is plum and square....any number of methods will work.
When I glued the posts together (using T-88, it is structurally gap filling)
I also installed the triangular wood "gussets" on the top and bottom of the
longerons that cover those posts and the cross pieces top and bottom under
those gussets. I also waited two days to make sure these new joints were
dry. The cross pieces and gussets were nailed in place AFTER the tail posts
were glued and plummed, etc., and held in place during that time with
bodacious (special clamps bought at the hardware store) "C" clamps. They
were painted red cause red clamps hold better.......I then went back thru
the aft airframe adding x pieces and gussets as required, cut to fit. You
can't believe how much pull it will take to get those posts together!! Gives
you an idea as to how strong this airframe is when done.......
earl myers
-----Original Message-----
From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 12:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage glueing
>Fellow Builders.......One huge question I have is how do you get the exact
>taper at the tailpost so that it matches properly when pulled together for
>gluing? I've been mulling over this for some time now , any suggestions
>would really be appreciated.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Swanson
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:25 AM
>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>
>
>>Richard-
>>I agree with Earl's story. I glued everything forward of the rear seat,
>>including the seat back, before pulling the tail pieces together. One
work
>>of caution- be sure when you glue the floor in, and then when pulling the
>>tail together, that the fuse is exactly square. I used a plumb line from
>>the center of the front cross piece to the center of the tail post. I
made
>>marks on each cross piece to be sure I was square all the way to the back.
>>This was very helpful when mitering the tailpost pieces together.
>>
>>Its exciting when the tail comes together and it looks like it might fly!
>>
>>Al Swanson
>>
>>
>>>Richard;
>>> In my Humble opinion, I would glue the x pieces in place back to the
>point
>>>of where the fuselage would start to taper when you pull the tail posts
>>>together. Glue the floor in along with all the x piece gussetts. You will
>be
>>>pleasently surprised at how strong the thing becomes when the floor is
in.
>>>After that has dried, pull the two tail posts together and begin filling
>in
>>>the balance of the x pieces......the floor will keep your nerves calm by
>>>absorbing all that x member compression.....the seat back will do this
>>>too.........The only devation from the stock Scout plans I made was at
the
>>>seat back on up to the firewall. I made the fuselage two inches wider to
>>>accompanying my size. A stock A/C is tight....the Scout is two inches
>>>narrower in general and three inches narrower at the seat back. I mention
>>>this because with the seat back in and the floor on, pulling the fuselage
>>>halves together was rough enough with the short fuselage. With the same
>>>length but 3" wider at the seat, it was really a strain to match up the
>>>tailposts! Glueing in the seatback and floor made this pulling fairly
easy
>>>but nervewracking non the less.
>>>Earl Myers
>>>
>>>Mike Cuy, back to you, 10-4!
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: bwm
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 8:32 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>>
>>>
>>>>Richard DeCosta wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I now have my 2 fuse sides upside-down in the the jig and all the
>>>>> various cross-pieces cut. I have been clamping them in place in
>>>>> preperation for glueing, and have noticed considerable strain on the
>>>>> wood durring this process. Should I glue the 3/16" ply floor on at the
>>>>> same time as the cross pieces underneath, or will it hold ok by me
just
>>>>> glueing the cross-pieces in? I dont have the ply for the floor yet,
and
>>>>> wont have for probably 2-3 weeks. If it's too much for just the cross
>>>>> pieces, Ill wait til I have the ply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>> p.s. it finally looks like a plane! :)
>>>>> ===
>>>>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
>>>Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Richard,
>>>>
>>>>I assembled mine by placing it upside down on the table and inserting
>>>>and butt-gluing the cross members in. at the time, I didnt have the
>>>>floor board material either. I bar-clamped it all together in the front
>>>>and pulled the tail post area together , held them with bar clamps and
>>>>let it all dry. I went ahead and made and glued up the ttriangular
>>>>gussetts at the tailpost (Top and Bottom). Then I carefully removed
>>>>(with the help of the missus and a friend) the whole fuselage. BE VERY
>>>>SLOW AND CAREFUL HERE!
>>>>
>>>>Turned it right side up and carefully glued in the gussetts that
>>>>connnect the two slab sides . Mine is a GN1 and I dont remember exactly
>>>>how a piet is - but mine called for three big gussetts that span from
>>>>side to side and are glued to the top of each longeron (locetd just
>>>>underneath each instrument panel and one is immediately behind the
>>>>firewall). They are about 6" wide by fuse width in length.
>>>>
>>>>I also temporarily made and fastened gussetts ( 2" x fuse width) AHEAD
>>>>of the firewall. You see I left about 4 " ahead of station zero on mine
>>>>for ease of handling. This was later cut away when I made my firewll.
>>>>
>>>>If this is confusing, sorry.
>>>>Bottom Line is yes you can remove and continue work before puttin in the
>>>>floor-just think ahead.
>>>>Good Luck - Its fun when it starts looking like an airplane. You could
>>>>also make it a boat I guess :)
>>>>
>>>>Bert
>>>>bwm(at)planttel.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
John G wrote:
I've ridden in an O-200 ship - Brusilow's - and it is noticeably much
stronger. However, the pilot with which I was hopping gets a nosebleed
when
he gets much above tree level. Can't say how fast it really
climbs.>>
Hey John, I did clip a tree once, but that's another story. "Mr Sam"
climbs 500ft/min at 60mph with one person. Two people, about 300 ft/min
at 50 + mph.
Hap Tucker wrote:
I would like to know why Mike's engine vapor locked and also had a bent
valve.>>>>
Hap you are right. I think the vapor lock was due to the routing of
the fuel line. The line was routed down the right aft cabane strut, fwd
to the firewall, across the firewall to the gascolator on the left
firewall. This worked well, but I had an engine overheating problem (
unrelated to the fuel line ). I discussed this at Brodhead one year. I
was advised to cut a port in the nose bowl to increase the ram air flow
around the engine.
Well, I believe the air was heated as it passed over the pan, this
hot air impinged on the fuel line on the firewall, thus causing the
vapor lock. In any case, that's the only explanation I can come up with.
The bent valve, I don't know why that happened. We inspected the head.
there was a mark. Maybe the valve lifted too high. Don't know.
Mike B; Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
John G wrote: I've ridden in
an O-200
ship - Brusilow's - and it is noticeably muchstronger.
However, the
pilot with which I was hopping gets a nosebleed whenhe gets much
above tree
level. g Can't say how fast it really
climbs.
Hey John, I did clip a tree once, but
that's
another story. Mr Sam climbs 500ft/min at 60mph with one
person. Two
people, about 300 ft/min at 50 + mph.
Hap Tucker wrote:I would like to
know why
Mike's engine vapor locked and also had a bent
valve.
size3>Hap you are right. I think the vapor lock was due to the
routing of the
fuel line. The line was routed down the right aft cabane strut, fwd to
the
firewall, across the firewall to the gascolator on the left firewall.
This
worked well, but I had an engine overheating problem ( unrelated to the
fuel
line ). I discussed this at Brodhead one year. I was advised to cut a
port in
the nose bowl to increase the ram air flow around the
engine.
size3>
Well, I believe the air was heated as it passed
over the pan,
this hot air impinged on the fuel line on the firewall, thus causing the
vapor
lock. In any case, that's the only explanation I can come up
with.
The bent
valve, I don't know
why that happened. We inspected the head. there was a mark. Maybe the
valve
lifted too high. Don't know.
size3>
Mike
B; Piet
N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
Canadians!
I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all of
it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to redo
his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I had
started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working 7
days a week so it waits..........
-----Original Message-----
From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: England
>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
I bought them from Early Bird Aircraft, a company in Colorado. They
aren't actual full size plans but 3/4 -late's say it is a dummy flying
Jenny. If you're interested in getting more info, go to LEAF (Leading
Edge Airfoils). They sell the kit and I reckon that also the plans. I
got them for $100.-.
--- David Swagler wrote:
> Where did you find Jenny plans?
>
> --- Adolfo Pando wrote:
> > I am actually building a Jenny, but I really
> > sympathise with piets and
> > would surely like to get a bit more involved.
> > I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in
> > England, where I
> > moved to from Argentina. Any information about
> > shipping companies to
> > move my bird would also be more than welcome.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
I bought them from Early Bird Aircraft, a company in Colorado. They
aren't actual full size plans but 3/4 -late's say it is a dummy flying
Jenny. If you're interested in getting more info, go to LEAF (Leading
Edge Airfoils). They sell the kit and I reckon that also the plans. I
got them for $100.-.
--- David Swagler wrote:
> Where did you find Jenny plans?
>
> --- Adolfo Pando wrote:
> > I am actually building a Jenny, but I really
> > sympathise with piets and
> > would surely like to get a bit more involved.
> > I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in
> > England, where I
> > moved to from Argentina. Any information about
> > shipping companies to
> > move my bird would also be more than welcome.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
Well, I bought my plans from Early Bird Co., in Colorado. They are
excellent CAD drawings you can get for $100.-. Alternatively, you can
direct your steps to LEAF. They sel the kit there and suppose the plans
too, but I am not sure.
For the time being, I am trying to find somewhere to complete my bird,
as I am just arrived in the UK (and still have to ship my plane here).
It is almost complete (only have to do the final assembly and
covering), so I am really looking forward to it.
--- Earl Myers wrote:
> I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull
> (as usual) were the
> Canadians!
> I originally had all the microfilm available on
> Jennies but donated all of
> it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did
> use some of it to redo
> his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your
> Jenny info???? I had
> started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine
> but started working 7
> days a week so it waits..........
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
> Subject: England
>
>
> >I am actually building a Jenny, but I really
> sympathise with piets and
> >would surely like to get a bit more involved.
> >I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in
> England, where I
> >moved to from Argentina. Any information about
> shipping companies to
> >move my bird would also be more than welcome.
> Thanks.
> >
> >
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAM & JAN MARINUCCI |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage glueing |
Earl
where I'm fitting and gluing the longerons and cross pieces in (on the first
side) but I like to work out all the forseeable problems before starting. It
looks like the belt sander will do the job nicely.
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 2:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage glueing
>Sam;
> On my Scout, all I did was pull the two posts together AFTER the floor
and
>seatback were in and dried. When the two posts touched, I just eyeballed
and
>drew two parallel lines on the top and bottom of the posts then, using a
>belt sander, removed that material so that when the posts came together the
>next time, they were nearly flat when mated. Along with all of this you
have
>to insure everything is plum and square....any number of methods will work.
>When I glued the posts together (using T-88, it is structurally gap
filling)
>I also installed the triangular wood "gussets" on the top and bottom of the
>longerons that cover those posts and the cross pieces top and bottom under
>those gussets. I also waited two days to make sure these new joints were
>dry. The cross pieces and gussets were nailed in place AFTER the tail posts
>were glued and plummed, etc., and held in place during that time with
>bodacious (special clamps bought at the hardware store) "C" clamps. They
>were painted red cause red clamps hold better.......I then went back thru
>the aft airframe adding x pieces and gussets as required, cut to fit. You
>can't believe how much pull it will take to get those posts together!!
Gives
>you an idea as to how strong this airframe is when done.......
>earl myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 12:52 PM
>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>
>
>>Fellow Builders.......One huge question I have is how do you get the exact
>>taper at the tailpost so that it matches properly when pulled together for
>>gluing? I've been mulling over this for some time now , any suggestions
>>would really be appreciated.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Alan Swanson
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:25 AM
>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>
>>
>>>Richard-
>>>I agree with Earl's story. I glued everything forward of the rear seat,
>>>including the seat back, before pulling the tail pieces together. One
>work
>>>of caution- be sure when you glue the floor in, and then when pulling the
>>>tail together, that the fuse is exactly square. I used a plumb line from
>>>the center of the front cross piece to the center of the tail post. I
>made
>>>marks on each cross piece to be sure I was square all the way to the
back.
>>>This was very helpful when mitering the tailpost pieces together.
>>>
>>>Its exciting when the tail comes together and it looks like it might fly!
>>>
>>>Al Swanson
>>>
>>>
>>>>Richard;
>>>> In my Humble opinion, I would glue the x pieces in place back to the
>>point
>>>>of where the fuselage would start to taper when you pull the tail posts
>>>>together. Glue the floor in along with all the x piece gussetts. You
will
>>be
>>>>pleasently surprised at how strong the thing becomes when the floor is
>in.
>>>>After that has dried, pull the two tail posts together and begin filling
>>in
>>>>the balance of the x pieces......the floor will keep your nerves calm by
>>>>absorbing all that x member compression.....the seat back will do this
>>>>too.........The only devation from the stock Scout plans I made was at
>the
>>>>seat back on up to the firewall. I made the fuselage two inches wider to
>>>>accompanying my size. A stock A/C is tight....the Scout is two inches
>>>>narrower in general and three inches narrower at the seat back. I
mention
>>>>this because with the seat back in and the floor on, pulling the
fuselage
>>>>halves together was rough enough with the short fuselage. With the same
>>>>length but 3" wider at the seat, it was really a strain to match up the
>>>>tailposts! Glueing in the seatback and floor made this pulling fairly
>easy
>>>>but nervewracking non the less.
>>>>Earl Myers
>>>>
>>>>Mike Cuy, back to you, 10-4!
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: bwm
>>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>>Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 8:32 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Richard DeCosta wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I now have my 2 fuse sides upside-down in the the jig and all the
>>>>>> various cross-pieces cut. I have been clamping them in place in
>>>>>> preperation for glueing, and have noticed considerable strain on the
>>>>>> wood durring this process. Should I glue the 3/16" ply floor on at
the
>>>>>> same time as the cross pieces underneath, or will it hold ok by me
>just
>>>>>> glueing the cross-pieces in? I dont have the ply for the floor yet,
>and
>>>>>> wont have for probably 2-3 weeks. If it's too much for just the cross
>>>>>> pieces, Ill wait til I have the ply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>> p.s. it finally looks like a plane! :)
>>>>>> ===
>>>>>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
>>>>Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim
Tavenner
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>>I assembled mine by placing it upside down on the table and inserting
>>>>>and butt-gluing the cross members in. at the time, I didnt have the
>>>>>floor board material either. I bar-clamped it all together in the
front
>>>>>and pulled the tail post area together , held them with bar clamps and
>>>>>let it all dry. I went ahead and made and glued up the ttriangular
>>>>>gussetts at the tailpost (Top and Bottom). Then I carefully removed
>>>>>(with the help of the missus and a friend) the whole fuselage. BE VERY
>>>>>SLOW AND CAREFUL HERE!
>>>>>
>>>>>Turned it right side up and carefully glued in the gussetts that
>>>>>connnect the two slab sides . Mine is a GN1 and I dont remember
exactly
>>>>>how a piet is - but mine called for three big gussetts that span from
>>>>>side to side and are glued to the top of each longeron (locetd just
>>>>>underneath each instrument panel and one is immediately behind the
>>>>>firewall). They are about 6" wide by fuse width in length.
>>>>>
>>>>>I also temporarily made and fastened gussetts ( 2" x fuse width) AHEAD
>>>>>of the firewall. You see I left about 4 " ahead of station zero on
mine
>>>>>for ease of handling. This was later cut away when I made my firewll.
>>>>>
>>>>>If this is confusing, sorry.
>>>>>Bottom Line is yes you can remove and continue work before puttin in
the
>>>>>floor-just think ahead.
>>>>>Good Luck - Its fun when it starts looking like an airplane. You could
>>>>>also make it a boat I guess :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Bert
>>>>>bwm(at)planttel.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Peit screen Saver- Richard |
Richard;
I was curious what the screen saver looked like. It finally
got the better of me. I clicked on the text, and it takes
me to the Peitenpol home page. I truly expected something
more spectacular that that.
Bill
is that connection disable?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
This could be a problem in Canada. I'm pretty sure that the Canadian regs
for experimental aircraft requires you to demonstrate a climb to 1000' AGL
within 3 minutes at gross weight. This would definitely be margina in "Mr.
Sam". I'll double check that tonight.
Ken
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> Hey John, I did clip a tree once, but that's another story. "Mr Sam"
> climbs 500ft/min at 60mph with one person. Two people, about 300 ft/min
> at 50 + mph.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | not much difference |
About fittings fitting.
I began my Piet project by making as many of the tedious and time
consuming fittings as possible.Some fittings,eg. stab and fin fittings,
will necessarily have to be made on assembly.
In order to assure that the fittings fit, I suggest making an accurate
layout of the fitting interfaces, ie.top, front and sideviews. I've done
this for my project and noted that some of the fittings, as per the
drawings, did not provide adquate fastner clearances or edge distance
for some matting parts. Earl Myers response about his scout fittings
needing to be up to 1/4" longer is consistant with my findings.
Also, in the interest minimizing aft end weight, I'm incorperating some
GN-1 aircamper type fittings on the tail. The GN-1 fitting gages are
less than those called for on the 1933 aircamper drawings, ie. 0.065
compared to 0.090.
Question for all you piet experts out there; My 1933 piet blueprint
shows a 1/4" hole in the bottom lift strut fitting plate. Whats's its
purpose?
About fittings
fitting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
Is "Mr. Sam" a Ford engine? If so, is it box stock or does it have some
horsepower mods? Thanks,
Eric
> John G wrote:
>I've ridden in an O-200 ship - Brusilow's - and it is noticeably much
> However, the pilot with which I was hopping gets a nosebleed when
> <> >>
> "" climbs 500ft/min at 60mph with one person. Two people, about 300
>ft/min at 50 + mph. Hap Tucker wrote:
>I would like to know why Mike's engine vapor locked and also had a bent
>>>>> Hap you are right. I think the vapor lock was due to the routing
>of the fuel line. The line was routed down the right aft cabane strut, fwd
>to the firewall, across the firewall to the gascolator on the left
>firewall. This worked well, but I had an engine overheating problem (
>unrelated to the fuel line ). I discussed this at Brodhead one year. I was
>advised to cut a port in the nose bowl to increase the ram air flow around
>the engine. believe the air was heated as it passed over the pan,
>this hot air impinged on the fuel line on the firewall, thus causing the
>vapor lock. In any case, that's the only explanation I can come up with.
> The bent valve, I don't know why that happened. We inspected the head.
>there was a mark. Maybe the valve lifted too high. Don't know. Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long I
can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes, please.
Thanks,
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: glue choice? |
There is a really interesting article in the May 1999 Expirementor dealing
with the properties of Polyeurathane glues relative to resoursinol. In
some areas it exceeded the resoursinols but in others it didnt. It also
depended on the brand of Polyeurathane used. The article is actually an
FPL report and is quite dry reading, but it's certainly packed with facts.
Other good choices include
T-88: great strength and gap filling capabilities
West System epoxy: better for large area laminates, easy to mix, poorer
gap filling properties but great penetration into the wood. It's a lot
thinner than T-88.
I use mainly T-88 and West System on the Christavia although I did try a
little polyeurathane on the doubler plates for the spars.
Ken
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Eric Norris wrote:
> I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
> school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
> should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long I
> can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
> starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes, please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HELP! -frustrated |
Hey guys,
I have my extended fuselage done and I am trying to start on the main
landing gear.
I am also going with the corvair. I am having problems in the gear
placement. Steve E
recommended moving the gear forward 2.5 inches. Today I started building the
jig for the
" V " and ran into problems.
My questions are:
Do I change the geometry of the " V " to move the gear forward or do I
shift the " V "
forward on the fuselage itself making different attachment fittings than the
plans call for?
Is 2.5 inches the correct adjustment forward for the extended fuse
with the corvair
on split axle gear?
I would greatly appreciate some advice. I am stuck from making
progress:-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Forum |
I knew a Paul Schultz in Menominee , Mich. Any relation? Scott DeGaynor
> From: Paul Schultz
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Pietenpol Forum
> Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 2:37 PM
>
> Steve;
>
> I'm getting two of each Email message. Please help.
>
> pschultz(at)uplogon.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
please subscribe me
Wayne Tokarz
Cold Lake, Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Eric wrote:Is "Mr. Sam" a Ford engine? <<
No, it is an 0-200. I flew with a Ford for two years, then chnaged to
a 0-200.
Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr. Sam )
Eric wrote:Is Mr.
Sam a Ford
engine?
No, it is an 0-200. I flew with
a Ford for
two years, then chnaged to a 0-200.
Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr. Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: glue choice? |
My first choice is T-88....easy to mix, comes in one flavor and is
structurally gap filling
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 6:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glue choice?
>There is a really interesting article in the May 1999 Expirementor dealing
>with the properties of Polyeurathane glues relative to resoursinol. In
>some areas it exceeded the resoursinols but in others it didnt. It also
>depended on the brand of Polyeurathane used. The article is actually an
>FPL report and is quite dry reading, but it's certainly packed with facts.
>Other good choices include
>
>T-88: great strength and gap filling capabilities
>
>West System epoxy: better for large area laminates, easy to mix, poorer
>gap filling properties but great penetration into the wood. It's a lot
>thinner than T-88.
>
>I use mainly T-88 and West System on the Christavia although I did try a
>little polyeurathane on the doubler plates for the spars.
>
>Ken
>
>On Mon, 31 May 1999, Eric Norris wrote:
>
>> I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
>> school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
>> should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long
I
>> can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
>> starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage glueing |
Sam;
I did forget to mention that without the x pieces in place ahead of the
seatback, the fuse will wanna bow out as the one fella pointed out. I
suggest putting in ALL the parts ahead of the seatback to prevent this
meaning all the x pieces and, of course, the sides allready in.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 3:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage glueing
>Earl
>where I'm fitting and gluing the longerons and cross pieces in (on the
first
>side) but I like to work out all the forseeable problems before starting.
It
>looks like the belt sander will do the job nicely.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 2:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>
>
>>Sam;
>> On my Scout, all I did was pull the two posts together AFTER the floor
>and
>>seatback were in and dried. When the two posts touched, I just eyeballed
>and
>>drew two parallel lines on the top and bottom of the posts then, using a
>>belt sander, removed that material so that when the posts came together
the
>>next time, they were nearly flat when mated. Along with all of this you
>have
>>to insure everything is plum and square....any number of methods will
work.
>>When I glued the posts together (using T-88, it is structurally gap
>filling)
>>I also installed the triangular wood "gussets" on the top and bottom of
the
>>longerons that cover those posts and the cross pieces top and bottom under
>>those gussets. I also waited two days to make sure these new joints were
>>dry. The cross pieces and gussets were nailed in place AFTER the tail
posts
>>were glued and plummed, etc., and held in place during that time with
>>bodacious (special clamps bought at the hardware store) "C" clamps. They
>>were painted red cause red clamps hold better.......I then went back thru
>>the aft airframe adding x pieces and gussets as required, cut to fit. You
>>can't believe how much pull it will take to get those posts together!!
>Gives
>>you an idea as to how strong this airframe is when done.......
>>earl myers
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 12:52 PM
>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>
>>
>>>Fellow Builders.......One huge question I have is how do you get the
exact
>>>taper at the tailpost so that it matches properly when pulled together
for
>>>gluing? I've been mulling over this for some time now , any suggestions
>>>would really be appreciated.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Alan Swanson
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Date: Sunday, May 30, 1999 1:25 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>>
>>>
>>>>Richard-
>>>>I agree with Earl's story. I glued everything forward of the rear seat,
>>>>including the seat back, before pulling the tail pieces together. One
>>work
>>>>of caution- be sure when you glue the floor in, and then when pulling
the
>>>>tail together, that the fuse is exactly square. I used a plumb line
from
>>>>the center of the front cross piece to the center of the tail post. I
>>made
>>>>marks on each cross piece to be sure I was square all the way to the
>back.
>>>>This was very helpful when mitering the tailpost pieces together.
>>>>
>>>>Its exciting when the tail comes together and it looks like it might
fly!
>>>>
>>>>Al Swanson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Richard;
>>>>> In my Humble opinion, I would glue the x pieces in place back to the
>>>point
>>>>>of where the fuselage would start to taper when you pull the tail posts
>>>>>together. Glue the floor in along with all the x piece gussetts. You
>will
>>>be
>>>>>pleasently surprised at how strong the thing becomes when the floor is
>>in.
>>>>>After that has dried, pull the two tail posts together and begin
filling
>>>in
>>>>>the balance of the x pieces......the floor will keep your nerves calm
by
>>>>>absorbing all that x member compression.....the seat back will do this
>>>>>too.........The only devation from the stock Scout plans I made was at
>>the
>>>>>seat back on up to the firewall. I made the fuselage two inches wider
to
>>>>>accompanying my size. A stock A/C is tight....the Scout is two inches
>>>>>narrower in general and three inches narrower at the seat back. I
>mention
>>>>>this because with the seat back in and the floor on, pulling the
>fuselage
>>>>>halves together was rough enough with the short fuselage. With the same
>>>>>length but 3" wider at the seat, it was really a strain to match up the
>>>>>tailposts! Glueing in the seatback and floor made this pulling fairly
>>easy
>>>>>but nervewracking non the less.
>>>>>Earl Myers
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike Cuy, back to you, 10-4!
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: bwm
>>>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>>>Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 8:32 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Fuselage glueing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Richard DeCosta wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I now have my 2 fuse sides upside-down in the the jig and all the
>>>>>>> various cross-pieces cut. I have been clamping them in place in
>>>>>>> preperation for glueing, and have noticed considerable strain on the
>>>>>>> wood durring this process. Should I glue the 3/16" ply floor on at
>the
>>>>>>> same time as the cross pieces underneath, or will it hold ok by me
>>just
>>>>>>> glueing the cross-pieces in? I dont have the ply for the floor yet,
>>and
>>>>>>> wont have for probably 2-3 weeks. If it's too much for just the
cross
>>>>>>> pieces, Ill wait til I have the ply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>> p.s. it finally looks like a plane! :)
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to
fly?
>>>>>Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim
>Tavenner
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Richard,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I assembled mine by placing it upside down on the table and inserting
>>>>>>and butt-gluing the cross members in. at the time, I didnt have the
>>>>>>floor board material either. I bar-clamped it all together in the
>front
>>>>>>and pulled the tail post area together , held them with bar clamps and
>>>>>>let it all dry. I went ahead and made and glued up the ttriangular
>>>>>>gussetts at the tailpost (Top and Bottom). Then I carefully removed
>>>>>>(with the help of the missus and a friend) the whole fuselage. BE
VERY
>>>>>>SLOW AND CAREFUL HERE!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Turned it right side up and carefully glued in the gussetts that
>>>>>>connnect the two slab sides . Mine is a GN1 and I dont remember
>exactly
>>>>>>how a piet is - but mine called for three big gussetts that span from
>>>>>>side to side and are glued to the top of each longeron (locetd just
>>>>>>underneath each instrument panel and one is immediately behind the
>>>>>>firewall). They are about 6" wide by fuse width in length.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I also temporarily made and fastened gussetts ( 2" x fuse width) AHEAD
>>>>>>of the firewall. You see I left about 4 " ahead of station zero on
>mine
>>>>>>for ease of handling. This was later cut away when I made my firewll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If this is confusing, sorry.
>>>>>>Bottom Line is yes you can remove and continue work before puttin in
>the
>>>>>>floor-just think ahead.
>>>>>>Good Luck - Its fun when it starts looking like an airplane. You
could
>>>>>>also make it a boat I guess :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bert
>>>>>>bwm(at)planttel.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Group,
I read a piece about sanding joints that are to be glued. It sug-
gested avoiding it because (I guess microscopically) it weakens the glue
joint. If this is so, I would like to learn from a professional if
cleaning a sanded joint surface with something, like maybe acetone would
help freshen the joint for gluing.
Dunno, DannyMac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels for aircraft,
when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original
manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that
the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with
motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside
edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on
motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection.
Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used
successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter is large
and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels. I
preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and
illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum
wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the
motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft
wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding my tail |
Danny,
Just use a cabinet makers scrapper to get past the sanded and filled
wood pores. Doesn't really take much.
dannymac wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I read a piece about sanding joints that are to be glued. It sug-
> gested avoiding it because (I guess microscopically) it weakens the glue
> joint. If this is so, I would like to learn from a professional if
> cleaning a sanded joint surface with something, like maybe acetone would
> help freshen the joint for gluing.
>
> Dunno, DannyMac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: glue choice? |
Eric,
T-88 is my vote. Why use anything else? I'm on my second project with it.
( flew my first about an hour ago, so I trust it).
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: glue choice?
>I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
>school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
>should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long I
>can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
>starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
please.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Eric
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Landing Gear Springs |
Hi Guys:
I have my gear completed with temporary struts (for GN1) in place
instead of the bungee/telescoping struts that plans call for.
I like the idea of using springs instead of bungees. Do you all have
experience with either? Good points vs. bad? I suppose I need a
certain type spring with a certain spring constant? Where can I find
out more and where could I purchase same? Thanks in advance.
Bert
bwm(at)planttel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
Dear Mike, et al:
Please tell me about flying with the Ford engine--what is it like? And was
the engine stock or modified, if so how?
Thanks,
E
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: glue choice? |
Ok, next question is what is T-88, and where do I get it?
I have used West epoxy on boats, and when done right it is incredibly
strong and really adheres to the wood.
E
>Eric,
>T-88 is my vote. Why use anything else? I'm on my second project with it.
>( flew my first about an hour ago, so I trust it).
>walt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:42 PM
>Subject: glue choice?
>
>
>>I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
>>school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
>>should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long I
>>can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
>>starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
>please.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding my tail |
The problem with sanding the joint is that it fills the pore with small
particles of mashed wood fibers. The glues don't get deeply into the pores
and the joint is weaker.
Some folks use "cabinet scrapers" to clean the stock before glueing, but
being a scrounge, I use a glass cutter to cut strips of broken window panes
about an inch and a half wide. Then into pieces about four inches long. The
edge stays sharp for a while, then I turn it over and use the next edge. I
figure I get eight scraping edges per piece. Pretty cheap eh? the glass
cutting experience doesn't hurt either.
John Mc
> I read a piece about sanding joints that are to be glued. It sug-
>gested avoiding it because (I guess microscopically) it weakens the glue
>joint. If this is so, I would like to learn from a professional if
>cleaning a sanded joint surface with something, like maybe acetone would
>help freshen the joint for gluing.
>
>Dunno, DannyMac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Landing gear location |
I also biult the long fusalage and I moved my wheels forward 7" and have had
no trouble to far. The airplane is very easy to take off and land with no
bad habits. As to the second question, change the geometry of the "V". I
did not and I am not satisfied with the look that I ended up with.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Springs |
I flew my Piet for 100 hours with the bungee's and they worked great but I
could not get my wings to sit level while on the ground so I made up a set of
spring struts as per the news letter with adjusting forks on the ends to
solve the problem. The spring struts work just fine and give me a little
more of a positive feel when landing. I purchased a set of springs that
needed 980lbs of force to compress them .8 of an inch, these work great and
cost me $50.00 plus shipping and 1 day work. On page 205 of the 1999
Aircraft Spruce cataloge you can get the whole deal for $89.00 plus shipping.
Duane NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Springs |
I am just starting to build my gear. The springs I bought were Lamina brand
Die Springs, used in stamping dies. I bought the H56, with a 1 1/2 inch OD
and 3/4 ID. At 525 lbs they compress .9 inch (2 springs on the gear to
divide up the 1150 lb max weight). 30% deflection is 1.8 inches at 1051 lbs
for each spring (2030 total).
Opinions on the suitability of these? They also make an extra heavy duty
model (XH56).
I bought mine from at Precision Punch and Plastics in Minnetonka MN for
$17.25 each. Their number is (800) 227-0690.
Al Swanson
>I flew my Piet for 100 hours with the bungee's and they worked great but I
>could not get my wings to sit level while on the ground so I made up a set of
>spring struts as per the news letter with adjusting forks on the ends to
>solve the problem. The spring struts work just fine and give me a little
>more of a positive feel when landing. I purchased a set of springs that
>needed 980lbs of force to compress them .8 of an inch, these work great and
>cost me $50.00 plus shipping and 1 day work. On page 205 of the 1999
>Aircraft Spruce cataloge you can get the whole deal for $89.00 plus shipping.
>
>Duane NX6398
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: HELP! -frustrated |
The best way to determine gear placement is to first estimate CG location both
laterally and vertically. The point of contact with the tire and ground when the
airplane is level should be no less than 12 degrees ahead and no more than 20
degrees ahead of the CG. Within these 8 degrees, consider the amount of braking
action, more brakes, move closer to the 20 degrees. Since the Piet doesn't go
very fast, braking action shouldn't be a major issue. I've flown several Piets
without brakes and haven't had problems (with stopping or directional control as
long as the steering springs stay connected).
PTNPOL(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hey guys,
> I have my extended fuselage done and I am trying to start on the main
> landing gear.
> I am also going with the corvair. I am having problems in the gear
> placement. Steve E
> recommended moving the gear forward 2.5 inches. Today I started building the
> jig for the
> " V " and ran into problems.
> My questions are:
> Do I change the geometry of the " V " to move the gear forward or do I
> shift the " V "
> forward on the fuselage itself making different attachment fittings than the
> plans call for?
>
> Is 2.5 inches the correct adjustment forward for the extended fuse
> with the corvair
> on split axle gear?
>
> I would greatly appreciate some advice. I am stuck from making
> progress:-(
>
>
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
Rt. 3 Box 13
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dbs(at)fscvax.wvnet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding my tail |
Sand it to rough dimensions then plane it the last little bit!
dannymac wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I read a piece about sanding joints that are to be glued. It sug-
> gested avoiding it because (I guess microscopically) it weakens the glue
> joint. If this is so, I would like to learn from a professional if
> cleaning a sanded joint surface with something, like maybe acetone would
> help freshen the joint for gluing.
>
> Dunno, DannyMac
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
Rt. 3 Box 13
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage glueing |
>Fellow Builders.......One huge question I have is how do you get the
>exact
>taper at the tailpost so that it matches properly when pulled together
>for
>gluing?
What I did was to set the fuselage on my table jigged in position,
brought the tails together and used a belt sander to remove material a
little at a time until it fit.
Were I to build another fuselage I would leave the tail post piece
and the rear most diagonals off when building the sides, position and
trim the top and bottom longerons and cut one tailpost piece to fit, glue
it in place and then add the last diagonals and plywood gussets. I feel
that would be much easier.
I used L-shaped angles two feet tall, screwed to the table with
drywall screws to hold the fuselage in position while doing all this.
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Trade VP-1 for peit project |
Mike, I live in central Kansas, about 60 mile North of Wichita.
Chad
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund [SMTP:malund(at)sprint.ca]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 4:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trade VP-1 for peit project
Where are you located ? Mike
malund(at)sprint.ca
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 4:12 PM
| Subject: | Trade VP-1 for peit project |
I have a flying Volksplane that I want to trade for a peit project. I will
consider any offer even just the spruce. I have pictures of my VP-1 that
can be sent email. Email if interested. Thanks. Chad.
-----Original Message-----
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glue choice?
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:49:13 -0500
T-88 has some good properties like everyone said. I use West System also.
You can use micro ballons and talc for filling. I had an old timer at Osh'
tell me how to buy the seperate components to make T-88 last year. I
haven't done it yet because I haven't ran out of my current supply. I'll
try to dig up the notes he gave me and post them and see if anyone has
comments. He said it would save half the cost over buying the repackaged
T-88.
Greg Yotz
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 8:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: glue choice?
>Eric,
>T-88 is my vote. Why use anything else? I'm on my second project with
it.
>( flew my first about an hour ago, so I trust it).
>walt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:42 PM
>Subject: glue choice?
>
>
>>I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
>>school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
>>should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long
I
>>can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
>>starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
>please.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Cool, another Albertan. Are you building a piet or just interested?
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Wayne and Kathy wrote:
> please subscribe me
>
> Wayne Tokarz
> Cold Lake, Alberta
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> Eric wrote:Is "Mr. Sam" a Ford engine? <<
>
> No, it is an 0-200. I flew with a Ford for two years, then chnaged to
> a 0-200.
>
> Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr. Sam )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Oops, got ahead of myself in that last post.
I'm a little confused. Are you getting 300 fpm at gross with the 0-200 or
with the ford?
Ken
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
> Eric wrote:Is "Mr. Sam" a Ford engine? <<
>
> No, it is an 0-200. I flew with a Ford for two years, then chnaged to a 0-200.
>
> Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr. Sam )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
Hello from Texas,
Robert in Uvalde and I have a couple of legal questions
to ask:
1. Do our GN-1s need ELTs to be legal to fly?
2. Can auto gas be used on his A-65 and my A-80
without paperwork from the feds allowing its use.?
We think we have the answers to the above questions, but
feel the need those words of wisdom from the legal pros.
Thanks in advance.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887 |
Robert,
I stopped in and saw Mike and Jay Tevis this weekend. I told them how
pleased you were with the GN-1 and everthing you've been doing. Mike
was very happy that things are going so well. I told him about your
adding the smoke system. He said he had added a smoke system to a
ultralight he had. He said he had used a model airplane electric fuel
transfer pump to deliever smoke oil with.
Mike has the Air Bike painted and was almost done reassembling it. It
looks great. I always thought the Air Bike would be fun to fly. Mike
told me to come back in a couple of weekends to see.
Greg Yotz
Robert,
I stopped in and saw Mike and
Jay Tevis
this weekend. I told them how pleased you were with the GN-1 and
everthing
you've been doing. Mike was very happy that things are going so
well. I told him about your adding the smoke system. He said
he had
added a smoke system to a ultralight he had. He said he had used a
model
airplane electric fuel transfer pump to deliever smoke oil
with.
Mike has the Air Bike painted
and was
almost done reassembling it. It looks great. I always
thought the
Air Bike would be fun to fly. Mike told me to come back in a
couple of
weekends to see.
Greg Yotz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pschultz(at)uplogon.com (Paul Schultz) |
Please unsubscribe (temporary).
pschultz(at)uplogon.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887 |
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <greg(at)controlvision.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:29 AM
Subject: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
Hi Greg. Great to hear from you, and thanks for the progress report
from Mike. He's a neat guy, and in fact the whole family is
exceptional. I hope the Airbike turns out a good as you say, I know I
had tons of fun in it. I sure love the little GN-1, only wich I could
get the CG right (with me at 200 pounds, and 1/4 tank of gas, I
calculate I'm almost 5" behind the aft CG of the GN, that can get
exciting).
Keep in touch, and I think you were going to send a photo of you and
my GN someday.
Take care!
Robert
Robert,
I stopped in and saw Mike and Jay Tevis this weekend. I told them
how pleased you were with the GN-1 and everthing you've been doing.
Mike was very happy that things are going so well. I told him about
your adding the smoke system. He said he had added a smoke system to a
ultralight he had. He said he had used a model airplane electric fuel
transfer pump to deliever smoke oil with.
Mike has the Air Bike painted and was almost done reassembling it.
It looks great. I always thought the Air Bike would be fun to fly.
Mike told me to come back in a couple of weekends to see.
Greg Yotz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Interesting,
I have had this concept floating in the back of my mind for some time -- A
project of an early biplane with a 350 Chev direct drive in place of an
OX-5. If you could get 110-120 hp out of the Chev it would be a large power
increase over the OX-5, be cheap, and have the right thrust-line,
sillouette, etc. I wonder how the weight would compare?
Just lug the engine with a huge prop to keep the revs down, and use a
camshaft for lotsa torque at lower rpms....
What is/was your plan?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: England
>I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
>Canadians!
>I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all of
>it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to redo
>his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I had
>started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working 7
>days a week so it waits..........
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
>Subject: England
>
>
>>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
>>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
>>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
>>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
>>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: glue choice? |
T-88 is a long cure, 2 part, 1:1 epoxy glue approved for wooden aircraft
structures. It's available from most A/C supply houses like Acraft Spruce
and Wicks. I can't remember the price off hand, but it is quite
reasonable. Another bonus I found with T-88 occurred when building the
canoe last year. It works very well on oily woods like teak, which I used
for the gunwales and inwales.
Ken
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Eric Norris wrote:
> Ok, next question is what is T-88, and where do I get it?
>
> I have used West epoxy on boats, and when done right it is incredibly
> strong and really adheres to the wood.
>
> E
>
> >Eric,
> >T-88 is my vote. Why use anything else? I'm on my second project with it.
> >( flew my first about an hour ago, so I trust it).
> >walt
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:42 PM
> >Subject: glue choice?
> >
> >
> >>I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
> >>school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
> >>should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long I
> >>can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
> >>starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
> >please.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Eric
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Re: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887 |
I've looked and looked for the picture and haven't found it yet. I have
five kids and we take pictures of every school, sporting event, etc. So
we have pictures everywhere! I'll keep looking and try to email you.
I'll stop by and ask Mike or his dad about that and see if they have any
suggestions. I remember Don (Mike's dad) having a simiular problem with
a Breezy. I don't know how he solved it but I'll find out. Have you
every thought of adding weight forward of the firewall? Maybe it's time
to add electric and put the battery up there? Or a small transfer fuel
tank behind the engine. Seems like I remember someone telling me they
did that once to help CG.
Greg Yotz
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
From: Greg Yotz <greg(at)controlvision.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:29 AM
Subject: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
Hi Greg. Great to hear from you, and thanks for the progress
report from Mike. He's a neat guy, and in fact the whole family is
exceptional. I hope the Airbike turns out a good as you say, I know I
had tons of fun in it. I sure love the little GN-1, only wich I could
get the CG right (with me at 200 pounds, and 1/4 tank of gas, I
calculate I'm almost 5" behind the aft CG of the GN, that can get
exciting).
Keep in touch, and I think you were going to send a photo of you
and my GN someday.
Take care!
Robert
Robert,
I stopped in and saw Mike and Jay Tevis this weekend. I told
them how pleased you were with the GN-1 and everthing you've been doing.
Mike was very happy that things are going so well. I told him about
your adding the smoke system. He said he had added a smoke system to a
ultralight he had. He said he had used a model airplane electric fuel
transfer pump to deliever smoke oil with.
Mike has the Air Bike painted and was almost done reassembling
it. It looks great. I always thought the Air Bike would be fun to fly.
Mike told me to come back in a couple of weekends to see.
Greg Yotz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ANYONE IN HOUSTON ON PIET DISCUSSION?? |
Is there anyone out there on the Piet discussion line that lives in Houston? I
live in Pearland, TX south of Houston. I am currently TRYING to square up the
fuselage sides and getting ready to glue up. Bart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Hi Mike!
>
>Instead of going "full auto" with your smoke -- practice your dots & dashes
>so you can communcate with the Pietenpol Aerial Armada!
>
>Have you discovered any colors? -- or is it "any color you want as long as
>it is white"?
>
>Mike in Pretty Prairie, KS
Hello Mike !
You got it- any color you like as long as it is white. (so far, that is)
Many people have asked me about how I could get other colors but as
of yet I have not heard how that's done.
Mike C. in little Valley City, Ohio :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | www.aircamper.org |
Anyone else having problems contacting Richards site?
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
John;
A Chevy 350 UNMODIFIED except for low tork cam (Marine or truck) but it
has to have a two to one PSRU to work right. By this I mean the takeoff rpm
would be 1800 at the prop and 3600 in the engine. That is about where the
tork is best, more or less. Cruise is about 1400 prop and 2800 engine or
about where it would be going down the highway at 65 mph in a vehicle. That
rpm is kinda where they are designed to run forever on. There are numerous
PSRU out now with several ratios. The direct drive 350's are used on the
higher speed plastic go-fasts out at 250 mph or so and turn at 4400-5500
rpm. TBO is low on them BUT, a NEW engine is "only" 1100 to 2200 bucks
American depending long block/short block. The quality on these engines is
"exceptional" I'm told. I have collected quite a bit of data, info, etc., to
include web sites. Contact me directly off this chat line for more info. I
have two blocks here to use as mock-ups but don't have the time due to my
work schedule at G.E.........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: England
>Interesting,
>
>I have had this concept floating in the back of my mind for some time -- A
>project of an early biplane with a 350 Chev direct drive in place of an
>OX-5. If you could get 110-120 hp out of the Chev it would be a large
power
>increase over the OX-5, be cheap, and have the right thrust-line,
>sillouette, etc. I wonder how the weight would compare?
>
>Just lug the engine with a huge prop to keep the revs down, and use a
>camshaft for lotsa torque at lower rpms....
>
>What is/was your plan?
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:23 PM
>Subject: Re: England
>
>
>>I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
>>Canadians!
>>I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all of
>>it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to redo
>>his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I had
>>started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working 7
>>days a week so it waits..........
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
>>Subject: England
>>
>>
>>>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
>>>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
>>>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
>>>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
>>>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: not much difference |
>Excellent advice -- on all points.
>
Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittings can
be made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a wood airplane
those .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: more difficult
to form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for a joyride,
and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes !
The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be tempted into
making
them out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incredibly amazing how
STRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Super light
and super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enough you can
avoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comes time to
weigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yours for
a ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all the time, but
the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance for years
and years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- they are a total
blast.
I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
This is what I did as well but with an inch narrower hub. Weren't cheap but
cut and dried and superior quality.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 9:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
>Just as a point of interest on the subject of motorcycle wheels for
aircraft,
>when you look at authentic aircraft wire wheels as used in the original
>manufacture of a/c vintage 1920's and as far back as Jennys you'll see that
>the spokes do not attach to the rim on or near the centerline as with
>motorcycle wheels,( except older sidecars) but rather toward the outside
>edges of the rim. Because of this, the hubs are also wider than those on
>motorcycles. The combination provided pretty good side load protection.
>Having said that, I have seen lots of stock motorcycle wheels used
>successfully (and a few not so successfully ). If the hub diameter is
large
>and you use short spokes at about 9 ga. you should be ok with stock wheels.
I
>preferred to go with the wider hub designed ( I think) by Frank Pavliga and
>illustrated in an early the BPAN by Howard Henderson ) laced to an aluminum
>wheel ( $ BUCKS $ ) from Buchanan Frame in L.A.. They've been in the
>motorcycle repair business since the early 40's and have done many aircraft
>wheels for the antique crowd throughout the country.
>
>Don Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: glue choice? |
T-88 is available thru the usual Aircraft Supply houses...Aircraft Spruce,
Wicks.......
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: glue choice?
>Ok, next question is what is T-88, and where do I get it?
>
>I have used West epoxy on boats, and when done right it is incredibly
>strong and really adheres to the wood.
>
>E
>
>>Eric,
>>T-88 is my vote. Why use anything else? I'm on my second project with
it.
>>( flew my first about an hour ago, so I trust it).
>>walt
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:42 PM
>>Subject: glue choice?
>>
>>
>>>I am resuming work on a Piet started 20 years ago when I was in high
>>>school. My question for you experienced builders is, what type of glue
>>>should I be using? Back then we used resoursinol (see, it's been so long
I
>>>can't even spell it right) for the wing ribs, and the ribs are what I am
>>>starting with again (about 9 ribs are left to do). Cast your votes,
>>please.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rigging and Trim |
Looking through the book "Stick and Rudder", I read a section on torque
effects. It mentioned that to counter act some of these torque effects, the
angle of incidence of one wing is slightly higher than the other, also the
vertical stablilizer is mounted at an angle off of center. Any of this
apply to rigging a piet? I have noticed an absence of trim tabs in the
plans. Do piet builders add rudder/elevator trim tabs?
Thanks,
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <duprey(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: www.aircamper.org |
I Am!!!
John Duprey
> Anyone else having problems contacting Richards site?
>
> Steve Eldredge
> Steve(at)byu.edu
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
"the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <duprey(at)excite.com> |
I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors were done with
flares, A one shot deal.
John Duprey
> >Hi Mike!
> >
> >Instead of going "full auto" with your smoke -- practice your dots &
dashes
> >so you can communcate with the Pietenpol Aerial Armada!
> >
> >Have you discovered any colors? -- or is it "any color you want as long
as
> >it is white"?
> >
> >Mike in Pretty Prairie, KS
>
> Hello Mike !
>
> You got it- any color you like as long as it is white. (so far, that is)
> Many people have asked me about how I could get other colors but as
> of yet I have not heard how that's done.
>
> Mike C. in little Valley City, Ohio :)
>
"the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
________________________________________________________________________________
Seems to make sense to me. I remember making colored smoke in chemistry
class years ago by burning different elements. Kinda hard to replicate but
who knows?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> John Duprey
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 12:20 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: smokies
>
>
> I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors were done with
> flares, A one shot deal.
>
> John Duprey
>
>
> > >Hi Mike!
> > >
> > >Instead of going "full auto" with your smoke -- practice
> your dots &
> dashes
> > >so you can communcate with the Pietenpol Aerial Armada!
> > >
> > >Have you discovered any colors? -- or is it "any color you
> want as long
> as
> > >it is white"?
> > >
> > >Mike in Pretty Prairie, KS
> >
> > Hello Mike !
> >
> > You got it- any color you like as long as it is white. (so
> far, that is)
> > Many people have asked me about how I could get other colors but as
> > of yet I have not heard how that's done.
> >
> > Mike C. in little Valley City, Ohio :)
> >
>
> "the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
The Italian national aerobatic team uses colored oil additives for their
performances, EXCEPT in those areas that have EPA restrictions, as the color
additives are considered to be excessively polluting. Also, the planes must be
wiped down immediately after performance as the color additives are extremely
difficult for the ground crew to remove when fully dry. Read this recently in
a British aero magazine while browsing at Barnes & Noble. The article never
did describe what the additives were.
John Duprey wrote:
> I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors were done with
> flares, A one shot deal.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: not much difference |
Mike,
I suspect low weight is the real key to flying with a Model A. BHP's
ships were something like 615 to 630 lbs.
Many say the horns are difficult if not the most difficult Piet parts to
make. I did not find them difficult. Maybe people work too hard by
trying to impart a perfect airfoil shape to them. The way I read the
plans is to just bend the leading edge over on a mandrel and weld the
suckers together. Worked out o.k.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: not much difference
>Excellent advice -- on all points.
>
Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittings
can
be made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a wood
airplane
those .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: more
difficult
to form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for a
joyride,
and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes !
The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be tempted
into making
them out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incredibly
amazing how
STRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Super
light
and super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enough
you can
avoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comes
time to
weigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yours
for
a ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all the
time, but
the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance for
years
and years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- they
are a total blast.
I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: www.aircamper.org |
I am also having problems.
> ----------
> From: steve(at)byu.edu[SMTP:steve(at)byu.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:33 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: www.aircamper.org
>
> Anyone else having problems contacting Richards site?
>>
> Steve Eldredge
> Steve(at)byu.edu
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: www.aircamper.org |
Should be ok now. I was playing around with the network. Man, you guy=
s
are right on top of things! :)
--- "Conrad, Bart D" wrote:
> I am also having problems.
>
> > ----------
> > From: =09steve(at)byu.edu[SMTP:steve(at)byu.edu]
> > Sent: =09Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:33 AM
> > To: =09Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: =09www.aircamper.org
> >
> > Anyone else having problems contacting Richards site?
> >>
> > Steve Eldredge
> > Steve(at)byu.edu
> > IT Services
> > Brigham Young University
> >>
> >
>
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?=
Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tav=
enner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Rigging and Trim |
Joe, While at Brodhead I noticed a number of Piets with the vertical stabilizer
offset. Some had bendable trim tabs also. Last year I noticed a horizontal
stab trim tab. I heard a comment once from a Piet builder at Brodhead that he
would have offset the engine by a degree or two. This is about all I know.
Maybe the more expereinced builders can provide more details.
> ----------
> From: Joe Krzes[SMTP:jkrzes(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:40 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Rigging and Trim
>
> Looking through the book "Stick and Rudder", I read a section on torque
> effects. It mentioned that to counter act some of these torque effects, the
> angle of incidence of one wing is slightly higher than the other, also the
> vertical stablilizer is mounted at an angle off of center. Any of this
> apply to rigging a piet? I have noticed an absence of trim tabs in the
> plans. Do piet builders add rudder/elevator trim tabs?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: glue choice? |
> I use West System also.
>You can use micro ballons and talc for filling.
Do not use micro balloons and talc to thicken West System epoxy for
structural uses, only for "fairing" and fiilling!
They make a product that is used to thicken it for structural
needs. I don't have it handy so can't give the number but it is in their
catalog. They have a newsletter that is interesting. I buy mine at "West
Marine" a boating supply store chain.
Tom
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GETTING MESSAGES TWICE |
I seem to be getting these messages twice. I tried sending a message to list.serv(at)ucsnet.BYU.EDU
but the message comes back in error. Can anyone help? I may
have subscribed twice... me being the computer illiterate one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> |
| Subject: | Please Unsubscribe |
Please unsubscribe (temporarily)
Thanks, Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
I want some green if you ever find out what it is!
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Warren Shoun
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 12:46 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: smokies
>
>
> The Italian national aerobatic team uses colored oil
> additives for their
> performances, EXCEPT in those areas that have EPA
> restrictions, as the color
> additives are considered to be excessively polluting. Also,
> the planes must be
> wiped down immediately after performance as the color
> additives are extremely
> difficult for the ground crew to remove when fully dry. Read
> this recently in
> a British aero magazine while browsing at Barnes & Noble.
> The article never
> did describe what the additives were.
>
> John Duprey wrote:
>
> > I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors
> were done with
> > flares, A one shot deal.
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: GETTING MESSAGES TWICE |
You were subscribe twice. I have deleted one.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Conrad, Bart D
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 1:21 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: GETTING MESSAGES TWICE
>
>
> I seem to be getting these messages twice. I tried sending a
> message to list.serv(at)ucsnet.BYU.EDU but the message comes
> back in error. Can anyone help? I may have subscribed
> twice... me being the computer illiterate one.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | Model A alum head |
I need help finding an aluminum head for my model A engine. Can anyone help?
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz [SMTP:greg(at)controlvision.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
I've looked and looked for the picture and haven't found it yet. I have
five kids and we take pictures of every school, sporting event, etc. So
we have pictures everywhere! I'll keep looking and try to email you.
I'll stop by and ask Mike or his dad about that and see if they have any
suggestions. I remember Don (Mike's dad) having a simiular problem with
a Breezy. I don't know how he solved it but I'll find out. Have you
every thought of adding weight forward of the firewall? Maybe it's time
to add electric and put the battery up there? Or a small transfer fuel
tank behind the engine. Seems like I remember someone telling me they
did that once to help CG.
Greg Yotz
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling < rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: www.aircamper.org
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:55:44 -0400 (EDT)
My only problem is that I'm double double subscribed subscribed.
Ed Woerle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
To all Corvair Piets,
I have a big hole in my #6 piston... after advancing to 30 degrees. It
happened on the ground, then ran rough. I'm using 100 low lead. This should
not have happened.
What kind of carbs are being used successfully?? Model #, Venturi size, jet
size???
What Size X Pitch props. are being used successfully??
I've flogged the timing issue to death already, but lets do it once again...
What timing is being set succssfully??
Should I weld the distributer centrifical weights (in what position... fully
open or closed), or is the weaker springs O.K.?
How much advance should the weights be producing?? The vacuum is already
locked.
What RPM are being achieved? I have the 95 Cam with 110 heads.
I've ordered the new parts... replacing all pistons from Clark's, and am
having the cyl. honed(deglazed only). Staying standard, not overboring or
reducing the compression as I would like to stay with 100 L.L.
At the End of my rope,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Re: glue choice? |
Sorry for the way I typed that. I had a complete thought in my head but it
didn't make it to the keyboard.
I was going to say the same thing. For filleting, use MB or talc. For gap
filling us the additive.
Sorry...
Greg Yotz
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas E Bowdler
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 1:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glue choice?
>> I use West System also.
>>You can use micro ballons and talc for filling.
>
> Do not use micro balloons and talc to thicken West System epoxy for
>structural uses, only for "fairing" and fiilling!
> They make a product that is used to thicken it for structural
>needs. I don't have it handy so can't give the number but it is in their
>catalog. They have a newsletter that is interesting. I buy mine at "West
>Marine" a boating supply store chain.
>Tom
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John R Bayer <jrbayer2(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A alum head |
Here you go, Chad, and all you 'A' aluminum head seekers:
http://www.modelatrader.com/brumfield/brumfield.html
John Bayer
Meany Magnet School Pietenpol Project
writes:
>I need help finding an aluminum head for my model A engine. Can anyone
>help?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: www.aircamper.org |
Not lately!
>From: steve(at)byu.edu
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: www.aircamper.org
>Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:33:35 -0600
>
>Anyone else having problems contacting Richards site?
>
>Steve Eldredge
>Steve(at)byu.edu
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear location |
Did you move the gear seven inches forward of the 1934 plans?. I read in a
article that
Bernard moved the j3 cub gear forward seven inches and it was a little bit to
far forward.
What do you think about this?
Thanks for the reply,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANYONE IN HOUSTON ON PIET DISCUSSION?? |
Conrad, Bart D wrote:
>
> Is there anyone out there on the Piet discussion line that lives in Houston?
I live in Pearland, TX south of Houston. I am currently TRYING to square up
the fuselage sides and getting ready to glue up. Bart
Hello Mr.Conrad,
Danny here, in the Pasadena area. There is another gentleman I found
east of Baytown with an inactive Piet project......and another at
LaPorte with an abandoned project. I became fired up to build a Piet but
decided to build a Martin Fairwind instead. This will be my first full
size plane. Let me know if I can be of help. Ya just have to either put
me up or feed me.....but not both. (grin)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
Normally those formulas are "profesional secrets" of the aerobatics teams...
Every place there is competition.
Saludos
Gary Gower
> The Italian national aerobatic team uses colored oil additives for their
>performances, EXCEPT in those areas that have EPA restrictions, as the color
>additives are considered to be excessively polluting. Also, the planes must be
>wiped down immediately after performance as the color additives are extremely
>difficult for the ground crew to remove when fully dry. Read this recently in
>a British aero magazine while browsing at Barnes & Noble. The article never
>did describe what the additives were.
>
>John Duprey wrote:
>
>> I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors were done with
>> flares, A one shot deal.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: www.aircamper.org |
Yep Steve, I can't get into Richard's site. I'll keep trying and wait to see
if others are making contact..
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: not much difference |
No big deal making the 2-piece aeleron horns per the plans. John comments are
correct...just DO it...you'll be surprised how easy it is and you'll be happy
you did!
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A alum head |
Uh, these are cast-iron heads...
>Here you go, Chad, and all you 'A' aluminum head seekers:
>
>http://www.modelatrader.com/brumfield/brumfield.html
>
>John Bayer
>Meany Magnet School Pietenpol Project
>
>writes:
>>I need help finding an aluminum head for my model A engine. Can anyone
>>help?
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging and Trim |
Joe Krzes asked (6-1-99) about torque, trim, ect. on Piets.
I put 1/2 in. offset in my vertical stab and 1 degree side thrust on the Ford
'A'. As you probably know the plans also call for a 1 in. drop on the engine
bearers. I don't know how much downthrust this gives, but I followed the
plans. After flying I'll just have to see if any of this needs to change or
if any horizontal stab adjustment will be necessary. (These things were sort
of automatic in my modeling days...guess old habits are hard to break) Keep
on reading Wolfgang Langenweische's ' Stick and Rudder'...I've yet to find
theory of flight explained as simply or as well. I've revisited my copy many
times over the years!
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Domenic
If I may sum up of the past timing advice for you:
The advance curve and vacum advance are of no value on an engine used
for steady power output such as an aircraft.
The only reason you need to vary the timing at all is to prevent
kickback on starting. It should fire late, after tdc at cranking speeds
and be fully advanced at any useable power settings.
If you are still using a point type distributor check that the bushings
are good. If the shaft wobbles the timing wanders. It might be okay on
the cylinder you timed it to but be out on some others. A good dwell
meter should pick this problem up.
You need to concern yourself only with the total advance. It seems as
though 30 degrees is too much. See if you can get advice from someone
like "Big Jim" on the max advance. I wouldn't go any more than the car
engine does with the vacuum disconnected.
I still wonder about your induction system, it may be that you are too
lean. Too lean can cause detonation which leads to holes in pistons. A
lean mixture can burn so slowly that there is still flame in the
cylinder when the next intake event occurs.
When you get it running again, try this as a mixture indicator:
Connect a hose to a propane torches shut off valve, and tie the other
end so that it feeds well into the carb intake. With the engine running
and warmed up open the propane valve, if the mixture was too lean the
additional propane will cause the engine to gain rpm. (power)
If the engine dies down a bit and recovers when the propane is shut off
the mixture is about right.
Hope this helps
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 2:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carbs
>To all Corvair Piets,
>
>I have a big hole in my #6 piston... after advancing to 30 degrees. It
>happened on the ground, then ran rough. I'm using 100 low lead. This
should
>not have happened.
>What kind of carbs are being used successfully?? Model #, Venturi size,
jet
>size???
>What Size X Pitch props. are being used successfully??
>I've flogged the timing issue to death already, but lets do it once
again...
>What timing is being set succssfully??
>Should I weld the distributer centrifical weights NO! It wil be too
hard to start! (in what position... fully
>open or closed), or is the weaker springs O.K.?Yes, as the power
settings at full power and cruise will not be much different.
>How much advance should the weights be producing?? The vacuum is
already
>locked.
>What RPM are being achieved? I have the 95 Cam with 110 heads.
>I've ordered the new parts... replacing all pistons from Clark's, and
am
>having the cyl. honed(deglazed only). Staying standard, not overboring
or
>reducing the compression as I would like to stay with 100 L.L.
>
>At the End of my rope,
>Domenic
>
Domenic
If I may sum up of the past timing advice for
you:
The advance curve and vacum advance are of no value on an engine
used for
steady power output such as an aircraft.
The only reason you need to vary the timing at all is to prevent
kickback
on starting. It should fire late, after tdc at cranking speeds and be
fully
advanced at any useable power settings.
If you are still using a point type distributor check that the
bushings are
good. If the shaft wobbles the timing wanders. It might be okay on the
cylinder
you timed it to but be out on some others. A good dwell meter should
pick this
problem up.
You need to concern yourself only with the total advance. It seems
as
though 30 degrees is too much. See if you can get advice from someone
like
Big Jim on the max advance. I wouldn't go any more than the
car
engine does with the vacuum disconnected.
I still wonder about your induction system, it may be that you are
too
lean. Too lean can cause detonation which leads to holes in pistons. A
lean
mixture can burn so slowly that there is still flame in the cylinder
when the
next intake event occurs.
When you get it running again, try this as a mixture
indicator:
Connect a hose to a propane torches shut off valve, and tie
the other
end so that it feeds well into the carb intake. With the engine running
and
warmed up open the propane valve, if the mixture was too lean the
additional
propane will cause the engine to gain rpm. (power)
If the engine dies down a bit and recovers when the propane is shut
off the
mixture is about right.
Hope this helps
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Springs |
The 525 lb springs are much to light because of the machanical advantage of
the arm. I know this from experience. I installed the 525lb springs and
they let the gear sag clear to the stops. you need the super-heavy duty with
about 1000lbs per .8 inch of compression. These compress 1/4" under empty
load.
Duane NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear location |
yes I went 7" forward of the 1934 plans works fine for me.
Duane NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
| Subject: | First Cross Country |
WOW!Talk about exciting. I did all my flight planing and figured it
would take me 2hours to go from Cold Lake ( on Saskatchwan border) to
Camrose ( east of Edmonton). At 7:00am the air was smooth as glass and
the view from VUU was just incredible.I kept passing my landmarks at a
regular interval and could see Camrose on the horizon. Right about then
the wire guage bottomed out on the gas cap, so I knew I had about a good
30 min of safe gas left. Just cause you can see your destination does
not mean that it is very close,( at least not in a Piet!) being the
intrepid aviator that I am I pressed on. Incidently at this point 2 hrs
had passed. I pulled into the Camrose patern was instantly and very
rudely passed on all sides buy a half dozen or more "spam cans" all of
which where flying "corporate" patterns complete with 5 mile finales! It
is about here that I start to relize that I have been airborne for 2:40
on about 2:30 worth of gas!! I cut the pattern down to more managable
size and splip inbetween a couple of them "cans" on finale. It's now
2:43 and I am setting up the Pit for a gorgeous show stage center grand
arrival and boy ! I did not dissapoint the hungry crowd. Silence at 2:44
even the prop has stoped moving! followed by a near perfect landing at
2:45 and roll it onto the grass to clear the runway. My gardian angel
was with me and all was well. I had a tailwind going back and was doing
really good time but prudence being the better part of valour I stopped
along the way for a little gas. $32.00 for 5.25hrs of flying $5 for an
incredible breakfast, several hours with good friends, clear skies and
of course one old Pietenpol aircamper that loves me... yes Virginia
There is a God and I'm in Heaven
Have A good night all
Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country (FLYING STORY/Richard) |
Richard: This sounds like another flying story to me.
John
Wayne and Kathy wrote:
>
> WOW!Talk about exciting. I did all my flight planing and figured it
> would take me 2hours to go from Cold Lake ( on Saskatchwan border) to
> Camrose ( east of Edmonton). At 7:00am the air was smooth as glass and
> the view from VUU was just incredible.I kept passing my landmarks at a
> regular interval and could see Camrose on the horizon. Right about then
> the wire guage bottomed out on the gas cap, so I knew I had about a good
> 30 min of safe gas left. Just cause you can see your destination does
> not mean that it is very close,( at least not in a Piet!) being the
> intrepid aviator that I am I pressed on. Incidently at this point 2 hrs
> had passed. I pulled into the Camrose patern was instantly and very
> rudely passed on all sides buy a half dozen or more "spam cans" all of
> which where flying "corporate" patterns complete with 5 mile finales! It
> is about here that I start to relize that I have been airborne for 2:40
> on about 2:30 worth of gas!! I cut the pattern down to more managable
> size and splip inbetween a couple of them "cans" on finale. It's now
> 2:43 and I am setting up the Pit for a gorgeous show stage center grand
> arrival and boy ! I did not dissapoint the hungry crowd. Silence at 2:44
> even the prop has stoped moving! followed by a near perfect landing at
> 2:45 and roll it onto the grass to clear the runway. My gardian angel
> was with me and all was well. I had a tailwind going back and was doing
> really good time but prudence being the better part of valour I stopped
> along the way for a little gas. $32.00 for 5.25hrs of flying $5 for an
> incredible breakfast, several hours with good friends, clear skies and
> of course one old Pietenpol aircamper that loves me... yes Virginia
> There is a God and I'm in Heaven
>
> Have A good night all
> Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country |
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Cross Country
Thanks Wayne for a great story!
Robert Hensarling
>WOW!Talk about exciting. and
>of course one old Pietenpol aircamper that loves me... yes Virginia
>There is a God and I'm in Heaven
>
>Have A good night all
>Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
Hi Guys. I spent all of Monday at the hanger, weighing and measuring my
GN-1. When it has burned off all but about a quarter of the tank , it is
really tail heavy. Here's the numbers I came up with:
Right main: 322.5, Left main: 310. Tail wheel (all of these weights up in
level position) 33 lbs.
My GN-1 uses the Piet airfoil, and the chord is 60". I used the LE as the
datum, which put the mains at 8.5", the tail wheel at 164.25", the fuel
tank (which was empty during all of this) at -3.5", pilot at 56", and
passenger at 24".
All of these numbers crunched into the w & b program shows that the CG is
way to far aft (23.3 is calculated, with the most aft CG being 20). This is
with full fuel (11.5 gal), so the problem really gets worst as I lose the
fuel weight while flying.
Maybe I'm figuring things wrong here. After all, this plane has gone
through 4 owners since 1977. Seems like someone would have caught this if
it is a problem. Of course maybe all the previous owners were 165 or so,
which puts the w&b in a better window.
Adding dead weight to the engine compartment never has seemed like a good
idea to me, plus seems like it would take 30 pounds to make a difference.
I've studied how to move the wing back 2-4 inches (this makes the numbers
work out better), but that looks like new cross braces, struts, etc.
Any ideas?
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Thanks John,
I will try the propane test. Brian Kenney is also thinking along those
lines. Today he is going to look at my carb. to check the venturi and jet
combination. It was set up for an 85 H.P. and Mixture locked rich... it
shoiuld be okay but it doesn't hurt to check.
thanks a million,
Dom.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com |
Domenic
If I may sum up of the past timing advice for you:
The advance curve and vacum advance are of no value on an engine used for
steady power output such as an aircraft.
The only reason you need to vary the timing at all is to prevent kickback on
starting. It should fire late, after tdc at cranking speeds and be fully
advanced at any useable power settings.
If you are still using a point type distributor check that the bushings are
good. If the shaft wobbles the timing wanders. It might be okay on the
cylinder you timed it to but be out on some others. A good dwell meter
should pick this problem up.
You need to concern yourself only with the total advance. It seems as though
30 degrees is too much. See if you can get advice from someone like "Big
Jim" on the max advance. I wouldn't go any more than the car engine does
with the vacuum disconnected.
I still wonder about your induction system, it may be that you are too lean.
Too lean can cause detonation which leads to holes in pistons. A lean
mixture can burn so slowly that there is still flame in the cylinder when
the next intake event occurs.
When you get it running again, try this as a mixture indicator:
Connect a hose to a propane torches shut off valve, and tie the other end
so that it feeds well into the carb intake. With the engine running and
warmed up open the propane valve, if the mixture was too lean the additional
propane will cause the engine to gain rpm. (power)
If the engine dies down a bit and recovers when the propane is shut off the
mixture is about right.
Hope this helps
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC < Bellissimo.Dominic(at)littonlsl.com> |
>To all Corvair Piets,
>
>I have a big hole in my #6 piston... after advancing to 30 degrees. It
>happened on the ground, then ran rough. I'm using 100 low lead. This should
>not have happened.
>What kind of carbs are being used successfully?? Model #, Venturi size, jet
>size???
>What Size X Pitch props. are being used successfully??
>I've flogged the timing issue to death already, but lets do it once
again...
>What timing is being set succssfully??
>Should I weld the distributer centrifical weights NO! It wil be too hard to
start! (in what position... fully
>open or closed), or is the weaker springs O.K.?Yes, as the power settings
at full power and cruise will not be much different.
>How much advance should the weights be producing?? The vacuum is already
>locked.
>What RPM are being achieved? I have the 95 Cam with 110 heads.
>I've ordered the new parts... replacing all pistons from Clark's, and am
>having the cyl. honed(deglazed only). Staying standard, not overboring or
>reducing the compression as I would like to stay with 100 L.L.
>
>At the End of my rope,
>Domenic
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS |
Howdy from Texas,
This is an attempt to put together a complete
listing of those in the Lone Star State who have
PIETS and GN-1s.
A couple of us would like to put together a good
old Texas get together and fly-in complete with
Bar-B-Q and all the fixins.
It is a big state, so a place where the fly-in and cookout
is still up in the air.
Thanks in advance....
Mike King
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: HELP! -frustrated |
Hi Ron,
BHP may not have had brakes on his model with differential braking, both
Jack Watson and I do. If you don'tmove it forward you will end up on your
nose, even when you do a run-up. I used streamline tubing which was even
more difficult to shape. I just started to take material away with a lot of
trial fits untill it came together. You are correct the forward post is
almost straight up and down, maybe a little forward. Don't forget your
gussets like I did...you'll end up with a bent gear leg and waste more time
which just gets you frustrated and sets you up for more heart break when you
geet a hole in the piston.
Dom.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HELP! -frustrated |
It sounds like you are frustrated also. Hopefully you will get the
answer.
As far as the landing gear I went out to the garage and broke the Jig
down:-(
and
changed the geometry to move the gear 7- 8 inches fwd and it looks like you
will
not be able to cut the angles where the " V" comes together per the planes.
The
most fwd post of the V is almost straight up and down and maybe a little
foward.
How did you join the two post on the V together at the point where they
meet?
In addition Bernard moved the j3 cub gear fwd 7" and he said it was a bit to
far fwd. What do you think about what he said?
thankyou for the help,
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Adding dead weight to the engine compartment never has seemed like a good
>idea to me, plus seems like it would take 30 pounds to make a difference.
>I've studied how to move the wing back 2-4 inches (this makes the numbers
>work out better), but that looks like new cross braces, struts, etc.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Robert
Robert- Those choices above are exactly right. You are very fortunate that
your
GN-1 has the Piet wing fittings, otherwise the Grega's wing cannot be moved to
adjust the center of balance. My wing is 4" aft of verticle and with full
fuel in the
nose (17 gallons) (nothing in the wing) she flies very nice.....but with my
205 lbs.
in the back as she burns fuel off it gets to where you need to hold forward
stick more. Not bad by any means, but you'll notice it. My most aft CG is
19.3".
Yes, you will need to make new cross braces, but not necessarily new struts.
If the guy did follow Piet plans you can make new strap fittings at the strut
to wing
fitting which are longer and thus can be drilled in place once you setup your
wing
slant. That's how Bernie did it so he wouldn't have to make new struts for
every
little adjustment he wanted to tinker with.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: W&B
Michael, do you know offhand the arm for the pilot in your Piet
(assuming your datum point is the wing LE).?
Robert H.
>Adding dead weight to the engine compartment never has seemed like
a good
>idea to me, plus seems like it would take 30 pounds to make a
difference.
>I've studied how to move the wing back 2-4 inches (this makes the
numbers
>work out better), but that looks like new cross braces, struts,
etc.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Robert
Robert- Those choices above are exactly right. You are very
fortunate that your
GN-1 has the Piet wing fittings, otherwise the Grega's wing cannot
be moved to
adjust the center of balance. My wing is 4" aft of verticle and
with full fuel in the
nose (17 gallons) (nothing in the wing) she flies very
nice.....but with my 205 lbs.
in the back as she burns fuel off it gets to where you need to hold
forward
stick more
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
>>
>>
>> Michael, do you know offhand the arm for the pilot in your Piet (assuming
>> your datum point is the wing LE).?
>> Robert H.
>>
>>
>
Robert- That info is at home unfortunately, but even so it wouldn't help you
much as I've got the
short (1933) Piet fuse. vs. the long (1966) fuse and you've got a different
version from either of those.
The engine mount for instance is longer on GN-1's than Piets to compensate for
the non-adjustable
wing, etc. What you did is good- you've got all the numbers you need to either
move your wing or
add a chunk on lead on the engine mount. The third alternative is to build a
longer engine mount.
( Ahhhh!!!!) Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
SPINACH!
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: smokies
>I want some green if you ever find out what it is!
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Warren Shoun
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 12:46 PM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Re: smokies
>>
>>
>> The Italian national aerobatic team uses colored oil
>> additives for their
>> performances, EXCEPT in those areas that have EPA
>> restrictions, as the color
>> additives are considered to be excessively polluting. Also,
>> the planes must be
>> wiped down immediately after performance as the color
>> additives are extremely
>> difficult for the ground crew to remove when fully dry. Read
>> this recently in
>> a British aero magazine while browsing at Barnes & Noble.
>> The article never
>> did describe what the additives were.
>>
>> John Duprey wrote:
>>
>> > I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors
>> were done with
>> > flares, A one shot deal.
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lolata <lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br> |
Try move the engine some inches ahead.
> De: robert hensarling
> Para: Pietenpol Discussion
> Assunto: W&B
> Data: Quarta-feira, 2 de Junho de 1999 09:49
>
> Hi Guys. I spent all of Monday at the hanger, weighing and measuring my
> GN-1. When it has burned off all but about a quarter of the tank , it is
> really tail heavy. Here's the numbers I came up with:
> Right main: 322.5, Left main: 310. Tail wheel (all of these weights up
in
> level position) 33 lbs.
>
> My GN-1 uses the Piet airfoil, and the chord is 60". I used the LE as
the
> datum, which put the mains at 8.5", the tail wheel at 164.25", the fuel
> tank (which was empty during all of this) at -3.5", pilot at 56", and
> passenger at 24".
>
> All of these numbers crunched into the w & b program shows that the CG is
> way to far aft (23.3 is calculated, with the most aft CG being 20). This
is
> with full fuel (11.5 gal), so the problem really gets worst as I lose the
> fuel weight while flying.
>
> Maybe I'm figuring things wrong here. After all, this plane has gone
> through 4 owners since 1977. Seems like someone would have caught this
if
> it is a problem. Of course maybe all the previous owners were 165 or so,
> which puts the w&b in a better window.
>
> Adding dead weight to the engine compartment never has seemed like a good
> idea to me, plus seems like it would take 30 pounds to make a difference.
> I've studied how to move the wing back 2-4 inches (this makes the numbers
> work out better), but that looks like new cross braces, struts, etc.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS |
Hello,
I have an Air Camper - 90% done and 90% to go.
I live in Bowie -- Between Ft Worth and Wichita Falls on US 287.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 7:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS
>Howdy from Texas,
>
>This is an attempt to put together a complete
>listing of those in the Lone Star State who have
>PIETS and GN-1s.
>
>A couple of us would like to put together a good
>old Texas get together and fly-in complete with
>Bar-B-Q and all the fixins.
>
>It is a big state, so a place where the fly-in and cookout
>is still up in the air.
>
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Mike King
>Dallas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GN-1 Project Page |
This page shows our progress on a GN-1. The plans were purchased in 1968 from
Mr. Grega. The wings are 50% and the engine is A-75 Continental with 470
hours TT.
The site will load slow, we are working on that. I will update it often and
include progress report.
The twin stringer is out and a single will be installed soon.
Ron & Daryll
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: First Cross Country |
You must have been burning auto fuel. No? 32 buck is pretty cheap for
5+hours.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Wayne and Kathy
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:52 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: First Cross Country
>
>
> WOW!Talk about exciting. I did all my flight planing and figured it
> would take me 2hours to go from Cold Lake ( on Saskatchwan border) to
> Camrose ( east of Edmonton). At 7:00am the air was smooth as glass and
> the view from VUU was just incredible.I kept passing my landmarks at a
> regular interval and could see Camrose on the horizon. Right
> about then
> the wire guage bottomed out on the gas cap, so I knew I had
> about a good
> 30 min of safe gas left. Just cause you can see your destination does
> not mean that it is very close,( at least not in a Piet!) being the
> intrepid aviator that I am I pressed on. Incidently at this
> point 2 hrs
> had passed. I pulled into the Camrose patern was instantly and very
> rudely passed on all sides buy a half dozen or more "spam cans" all of
> which where flying "corporate" patterns complete with 5 mile
> finales! It
> is about here that I start to relize that I have been
> airborne for 2:40
> on about 2:30 worth of gas!! I cut the pattern down to more managable
> size and splip inbetween a couple of them "cans" on finale. It's now
> 2:43 and I am setting up the Pit for a gorgeous show stage
> center grand
> arrival and boy ! I did not dissapoint the hungry crowd.
> Silence at 2:44
> even the prop has stoped moving! followed by a near perfect landing at
> 2:45 and roll it onto the grass to clear the runway. My gardian angel
> was with me and all was well. I had a tailwind going back and
> was doing
> really good time but prudence being the better part of valour
> I stopped
> along the way for a little gas. $32.00 for 5.25hrs of flying $5 for an
> incredible breakfast, several hours with good friends, clear skies and
> of course one old Pietenpol aircamper that loves me... yes Virginia
> There is a God and I'm in Heaven
>
> Have A good night all
> Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets">http//www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marvin L. Stovall" |
Hi there,
I used some colord smoke on a crop duster once. Got it from a supplier
but can't remember where. I just called the Canadian Snow Birds. One of
their crew chiefs led me to the supplier. I got some samples for free, not
enough to do much with. Their recommendation was using a ratio of 50/50,
oil to dye. The dye is very expensive and the supplier would only sell it
by the 55 gallon drum, looks neat though.
Leon
Earl Myers wrote:
> SPINACH!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 3:43 PM
> Subject: RE: smokies
>
> >I want some green if you ever find out what it is!
> >
> >Steve Eldredge
> >IT Services
> >Brigham Young University
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Warren Shoun
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 12:46 PM
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Subject: Re: smokies
> >>
> >>
> >> The Italian national aerobatic team uses colored oil
> >> additives for their
> >> performances, EXCEPT in those areas that have EPA
> >> restrictions, as the color
> >> additives are considered to be excessively polluting. Also,
> >> the planes must be
> >> wiped down immediately after performance as the color
> >> additives are extremely
> >> difficult for the ground crew to remove when fully dry. Read
> >> this recently in
> >> a British aero magazine while browsing at Barnes & Noble.
> >> The article never
> >> did describe what the additives were.
> >>
> >> John Duprey wrote:
> >>
> >> > I Don't know if this is correct but I heard that colors
> >> were done with
> >> > flares, A one shot deal.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Project Page |
What is the address of your page? I must of missed something.
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: RDeets(at)aol.com <RDeets(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Project Page
>This page shows our progress on a GN-1. The plans were purchased in 1968
from
>Mr. Grega. The wings are 50% and the engine is A-75 Continental with 470
>hours TT.
>The site will load slow, we are working on that. I will update it often and
>include progress report.
>The twin stringer is out and a single will be installed soon.
>Ron & Daryll
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Project Page |
HREF="http://www/angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets">http//www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Project Page |
HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets/index.html">http://www.angelfire.com
/fl2/DDeets/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: W&B
A longer mount may well be the key to all of this. Maybe I could
even use the existing mount, but add some sort of spacer (2" or so?) to
the back of the mount where it attaches to the firewall). Of course, I'm
still not 100% convinced that there is a problem yet. I wonder if Mr.
Grega is still around, maybe I could give him a call and see if I'm
within his limits.
Robert
________________________________________________________________________________
If your GN-1 is using the Piet airfoil then the aft CG limit relative
to the
leading edge of the wing should be exactly the same as the Piet's.
On Wednesday, June 02, 1999 10:10 AM, robert hensarling
[SMTP:rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com] wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy < Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov
> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: W&B
>
> A longer mount may well be the key to all of this. Maybe I could even
use
the existing mount, but add some sort of spacer (2" or so?) to the back
of
the mount where it attaches to the firewall). Of course, I'm still not
100%
convinced that there is a problem yet.=A0 I wonder if Mr. Grega is
still
around, maybe I could give him a call and see if I'm within his limits.
>
> Robert
>
>
> Michael, do you know offhand the arm for the pilot in your Piet
(assuming
your datum point is the wing LE).?
> Robert H.
>
>
> Robert- That info is at home unfortunately, but even so it wouldn't
help
you much as I've got the
> short (1933) Piet fuse. vs. the long (1966) fuse and you've got a
different version from either of those.
> The engine mount for instance is longer on GN-1's than Piets to
compensate
for the non-adjustable
> wing, etc.=A0 What you did is good- you've got all the numbers you
need to
either move your wing or
> add a chunk on lead on the engine mount.=A0 The third alternative is
to
build a longer engine mount.
> ( Ahhhh!!!!)=A0 Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Daryl,
I just got done checking out you piet page. Nice looking work! Makes me
want to start another one. I am intriuged by the side panel cut outs.
Never seen that before.
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
I think I saw Grega's ad in the classified section of the latest Sport
Aviation.
Dean Dayton
robert hensarling wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:16 AM
> Subject: Re: W&B A longer mount may well be the key to all
> of this. Maybe I could even use the existing mount, but add
> some sort of spacer (2" or so?) to the back of the mount
> where it attaches to the firewall). Of course, I'm still not
> 100% convinced that there is a problem yet. I wonder if Mr.
> Grega is still around, maybe I could give him a call and see
> if I'm within his limits. Robert
>
>
> > > Michael, do you know offhand the arm for the pilot in
> > > your Piet (assuming your datum point is the wing LE).?
> > > Robert H.
> >
> Robert- That info is at home unfortunately, but even so it
> wouldn't help you much as I've got the
> short (1933) Piet fuse. vs. the long (1966) fuse and you've
> got a different version from either of those.
> The engine mount for instance is longer on GN-1's than Piets
> to compensate for the non-adjustable
> wing, etc. What you did is good- you've got all the numbers
> you need to either move your wing or
> add a chunk on lead on the engine mount. The third
> alternative is to build a longer engine mount.
> ( Ahhhh!!!!) Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS |
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS
Mike, this is Robert from Uvalde. Count me in to. Make the fly-in location
as far as you can from Uvalde, so I'll have an adventure getting there!
RH
>Hello,
>
>I have an Air Camper - 90% done and 90% to go.
>
>I live in Bowie -- Between Ft Worth and Wichita Falls on US 287.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 7:59 AM
>Subject: GN-1s & PIETS IN TEXAS
>
>
>>Howdy from Texas,
>>
>>This is an attempt to put together a complete
>>listing of those in the Lone Star State who have
>>PIETS and GN-1s.
>>
>>A couple of us would like to put together a good
>>old Texas get together and fly-in complete with
>>Bar-B-Q and all the fixins.
>>
>>It is a big state, so a place where the fly-in and cookout
>>is still up in the air.
>>
>>Thanks in advance....
>>
>>Mike King
>>Dallas
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: W&B
Jim Sury also suggested adding a metal prop, for some additional
weight. Sounds reasonable to me, but I sure like the looks of the wood.
Robert
Piet (assuming your datum point is the wing LE).?
Robert- That info is at home unfortunately, but even so it wouldn't
help you much as I've got the
short (1933) Piet fuse. vs. the long (1966) fuse and you've got a
different version from either of those.
The engine mount for instance is longer on GN-1's than Piets to
compensate for the non-adjustable
wing, etc. What you did is good- you've got all the numbers you
need to either move your wing or
add a chunk on lead on the engine mount. The third alternative is
to build a longer engine mount.
( Ahhhh!!!!) Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Robert, he is still kicking!
-----Original Message-----
From: dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: W&B
>I think I saw Grega's ad in the classified section of the latest Sport
>Aviation.
>
>Dean Dayton
>
>robert hensarling wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: W&B A longer mount may well be the key to all
>> of this. Maybe I could even use the existing mount, but add
>> some sort of spacer (2" or so?) to the back of the mount
>> where it attaches to the firewall). Of course, I'm still not
>> 100% convinced that there is a problem yet. I wonder if Mr.
>> Grega is still around, maybe I could give him a call and see
>> if I'm within his limits. Robert
>>
>>
>>
>> > > Michael, do you know offhand the arm for the pilot in
>> > > your Piet (assuming your datum point is the wing LE).?
>> > > Robert H.
>> >
>> Robert- That info is at home unfortunately, but even so it
>> wouldn't help you much as I've got the
>> short (1933) Piet fuse. vs. the long (1966) fuse and you've
>> got a different version from either of those.
>> The engine mount for instance is longer on GN-1's than Piets
>> to compensate for the non-adjustable
>> wing, etc. What you did is good- you've got all the numbers
>> you need to either move your wing or
>> add a chunk on lead on the engine mount. The third
>> alternative is to build a longer engine mount.
>> ( Ahhhh!!!!) Mike C.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>I think I saw Grega's ad in the classified section of the latest Sport
>Aviation.
>
>Dean Dayton
Grega is around still as far as I know. Look him up on the web
white pages. Bedford, Ohio. John W. Grega
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
Hi guys. I just had a 45 minute phone conversation with John Grega (86
years young, and just as happy and excited about airplanes as could be!), in
Bedford, Ohio. I gave him all the numbers and weights I had on my plane,
and he said that it's ok where it is, but that if I really wanted to add a
little weight, and a lot of performance, to change to a metal prop or 74 x
46. He suggested a McCauley (sp?). Other than that, he asked a mess of
questions about the way the GN acted in different settings, like cruise,
power back, and all of that. He said it's fine, so I'll let it go at that.
He told me that he's had guys weighing 240 climb into a GN with my same
specs, and did fine.
Now, anyone have a metal 74 X 46 for sale??
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887 830-278-1832
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Just wanted to bring up hinges again. After starting a discussion last
month , I took all the input, and decided to stay with original looking.
What I did was to make out of .040" 4130 1 1/4x 9/16 strips. Bent
these in the middle, used one flat on the bottom and two angled "L's",
back to back to make the "male". And with a "U" in the middle to make
the "female". Clamp them lightly and weld all around the edges.
Sounds complicated , but it's not. Just grind the top round before
final welding.
Because of everyones advice, I made the pieces about 1/4" taller for
spacing.
Already routed them into the elevator and rudder and they work great!
Glad I stayed with the old look.
Put them on Aircamper.org
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehinges.jpg
walt
Just wanted to bring up hinges
again.
After starting a discussion last month , I took all the input, and
decided to
stay with original looking. What I did was to make out of
.040
4130 1 1/4x 9/16 strips. Bent these in the
middle,
used one flat on the bottom and two angled L's, back to back
to make
the male. And with a U in the middle to
make the
female. Clamp them lightly and weld all around
the
edges.
Sounds complicated , but it's
not. Just
grind the top round before final welding.
Because of everyones advice, I made
the pieces
about 1/4 taller for spacing.
Already routed them into the
elevator and rudder
and they work great! Glad I stayed with the old look.
Put them on
Aircamper.org
href"http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehinges.jpg">http://www.a=
ircamper.org/users/wevans/wbehinges.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee's most recent run in with the law.... |
GREAT STORY STEVE!!!!
Aaahhh... The barn storming days aren't quite gone yet.......
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 5:41 PM
Subject: Stevee's most recent run in with the law....
Ok folks, as promised, but it is a long one, strap in.
.....
..... I got gas and donned my scarf and goggles and started up.
The wind was calm and I took off to the west. I couldn't help it at
this point and as I passed low over the neighborhood I laid the smoke on
thick....
Julie called an hour after I got home and said there were still cars
driving past the spot till dark.
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
Provo UT.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee's most recent run in with the law.... |
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <greg(at)controlvision.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: Stevee's most recent run in with the law....
Steve, I loved the story!! I've printed it out to tack on our board
out at the muesum hanger. You lucky dawg, some people have all the fun!
Robert Hensarling
GREAT STORY STEVE!!!!
Aaahhh... The barn storming days aren't quite gone yet.......
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 5:41 PM
Subject: Stevee's most recent run in with the law....
Ok folks, as promised, but it is a long one, strap in.
.....
..... I got gas and donned my scarf and goggles and started up.
The wind was calm and I took off to the west. I couldn't help it at
this point and as I passed low over the neighborhood I laid the smoke on
thick....
Julie called an hour after I got home and said there were still
cars driving past the spot till dark.
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
Provo UT.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee's most recent run in with the law.... |
What a hoot!!! I'm surprised they didn't accuse you of flying drugs in
from Mexico.
Dean Dayton
N7167S - Fisher Horizon 2 owner and still Piet builder
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> Ok folks, as promised, but it is a long one, strap in.Two weeks ago
> my brother in law called from a small town here in Utah by the name of
> Price and asked if I would like to go with him as a volunteer for the
> Forest Service to help out in the annual Raptor Survey. I was
> delighted and accepted his invitation, mainly because it meant that I
> would finally have the experience of flying in a helicopter for the
> first time. It would be an all day flight up and down canyons close
> in and lots of hovering around nesting sites for eagles, hawks and
> crows. Sounded like a blast. I would go along for the ride, but my
> official duty would be to run the GPS mapping software, act as backup
> navigator, and as scribe for the documentation of nest location and
> conditions. Cool job for a day I must say. So I figured since Price
> is 1.5 hours in windy mountain roads, it would be a great trip in the
> Piet. I could clear all the mountains without going over 9500' and
> flying in the morning would be a bit cold, but much more fun than
> driving. So Monday morning I got up a 5am and gassed up and blasted
> off at the first peeking of the sun over the mountains. The flight
> would be an hour flight even with the morning wind blasting down
> through Spanish Fork Canyon. The glimpse of sun was the only heater I
> could draw on as the outside air temp was a frigid 32 degrees at
> altitude. My smoke system, successfully tested earlier in the week
> was not pumped up yet but it was full of oil to blast my sisters house
> as I planned to circle and smoke as I announced my arrival. Julie and
> Chris live just a mile from the airport on the east edge of price.
> The backyard is cactus and low sage brush. Last time I visited I
> notice the county road was in good shape and except for powerlines and
> 200 yards of chain link fence on one side, would be a perfect landing
> strip. I imagined landing there, and getting breakfast as I crested
> the last of the ridges that we would scope out that day for
> raptors. I told Chris to come out when he heard my engine and I
> would show him a surprise. Julie had seen the smoke system in action
> earlier, but Chris hadn't yet. I pushed the nose over and did a high
> speed dive for the last 5 miles. At 500' I leveled off after checking
> traffic at the airport. Nobody but the commuter flight and he was
> blasting off to the north as was out of sight quickly. Pumping the
> smoke sprayer had been the only numb-fighting activity in the last
> hour, so it was nice to work the controls as I threw the little Piet
> around. I was bummed however because although I could see their
> truck, nobody came out. Oh well, smoke on and circle. I was having
> fun anyway and maybe they would catch the last of the show. I checked
> out the road and did a low pass down the county road. It looked like
> a great landing spot. I determined if they wouldn't come out to see
> me that I would have to go wake them up, and invite myself to
> breakfast after all. I passed just over the bluff and dropped in
> low. The ground went by faster than I expected at first until I
> realized that I was landing down-hill. About 2/3 rds of the way
> through my rollout the chain link fence was on the right and I was
> especially aware of my directional control. As I tried to stay
> centered on the crowned road, I felt a pop as I leaned on the right
> brake. I was heading left and again I hit the brake and felt it go to
> the floor. In an instant I was in the sage brush at about a 10 degree
> cut. I gave it full power and tried to abort, but the idling engine
> gasp at that much throttle so quickly and choked. I quickly came to
> a stop in the middle of a cactus bush. Lucky it was my right brake
> and no damage on the short bouncy arrival. I looked around and still
> nobody emerged. I pushed the Air Camper back up the hill and
> parked it off the road and walked the 500 yards to their back yard,
> checked for the dogs, and hopped the fence. I don't care for dogs
> much, especially trained hunting dogs that bark a lot and get excited
> when surprised. I climbed the back stairs and opened the patio door.
> I nearly broke my finger trying to slam the door shut when the dogs
> arrived to greet me. Fortunately I had created enough disturbance
> this time and Julie rescued me from the dogs. She was all confused
> though as to how I got there. Apparently Chris forgot to tell her I
> was coming! Anyway time was getting short and we had to get to the
> airport by 8am. I decided I would leave the plane until the
> afternoon, fix the hydraulic line and fly home after our chopper ride.
> -That is how the uproar began- Little did I know. After leaving the
> Piet safe and sound in a pull-out in the road we drove to the airport,
> just 2 minute drive, attended a briefing on the raptor flight and
> flew off. I had a great time for the first couple of hours and loved
> the view and perspective of a helicopter. I must admit however, the
> Piet is the closest thing to helicopter flight as anything. the only
> thing the piet won't do is the cool vertical take-off and landings and
> hover. Loitering around, like we did most of the day, was much like
> flying the piet! After lunch, potty and fuel break we were back at it
> again when over the radio the call from the airport came investigating
> whether a "Steve Eldredge" was aboard. I replied that I was. The
> airport operator said they were getting hundreds of calls about my
> plane and the sheriff was looking for me. I told them that I would be
> back at the airport about 2pm. Admittedly I was a little worried the
> rest of the afternoon about what might be happening back in Price.
> We arrived on schedule and my first clue as to what had transpired in
> my absence was the lady at the airport desk. She was asking everyone
> as they camp through the door if they were Steve Eldredge. I finally
> put the rest of the others out of the misery and stepped forward. As
> soon as I identified myself the lady went a little ballistic. I think
> she was really trying to appear much more upset than she really was.
> I played along, and the gist was that she had been taking calls from
> everyone in town including the police, sheriff, county paper, dozens
> of residents, school employees, city workers and small Chihuahuas
> about why there was a plane where is wasn't supposed to be.
> Apparently I had caused quite a stir in this little town. I was
> really beginning to wonder if I was in trouble. Thank heavens it
> was a little town and finally after "Rose" calmed down she said that
> she had called "Gus" (the Sheriff) and had taken care of everything.
> I was expressed my deepest regret for having caused her such grief.
> Frankly I could tell that everyone was quite amused and enjoyed having
> something to do all day long. I just had to smile. I ran into Mark
> who was the FBO owner. He is cool and helped me round up some brake
> fluid. He owns a dandy of a Lancair, and had heard all about the days
> excitement. He suggested that had I come back earlier while all the
> fuss was going on down on the county road that we take his Citabria,
> 150 and 172 down and break out the BBQ and call it a flyin! What a
> cool guy. I admit that I didn't check the county ordinances to see
> if there was anything on the books against landing on a county road.
> Apparently I had never come up before. My sister looking out once in
> a while notice the ambulance, and emergency vehicles at some point and
> wander out to see what was up. As soon as she identified herself she
> was swarmed with questions about the "plane wreck". Duh fellas do you
> see any damage? Julie was calm and collected. She hated to deflate
> everybody with the real news, after all before she spoke up the place
> was quite a zoo. Newsmen snapping pictures, Jeep patrol combing the
> fields nearby looking for a body, The city police and "Gus" our heroic
> Sheriff arguing about who's problem this was since the plane was 10
> inches over on the county side. Gus lost. It was his problem. So
> when Julie said I landed for breakfast and a helicopter ride, everyone
> deflated. The the surge of questions, "What about the engine
> sputtering reports we had?" and "Several witnesses said they saw a
> plane trailing smoke and spiraling in" "he must have been in trouble"
> A classic from the police was "When you can't make it to the airport
> you have to call the FAA!" "What about his flight plan" and on and
> on. Julie was cool as a cucumber and said "Well, Steve is a good
> pilot and you can ask him when he gets back." What a riot. Well I
> showed up and other than the neighborhood kids who were still curious
> the place was deserted. I added the brake fluid and fixed er' up and
> hand propped the engine. There seemed to be a few more cars on the
> once deserted county road. As I hopped in a couple cars stopped and
> the kids watched. I taxied down the road past the chain link fence,
> and firewalled it. Another mile or so down the road two cars pulled
> off to watch. I lifted off and circled once to clear the bluff the
> airport sat on and landed. I got gas and donned my scarf and goggles
> and started up. The wind was calm and I took off to the west. I
> couldn't help it at this point and as I passed low over the
> neighborhood I laid the smoke on thick....Julie called an hour after I
> got home and said there were still cars driving past the spot till
> dark. Steve EldredgeSteve(at)byu.eduProvo UT.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
I havn't finnished my Pietenpol however a friend in the ozarks
has and he said the biggest increase in comfort come from
changing the rudder bar to rudder pedals he's about 6-3 or 4
and 250 to 270 lbs. Iv'e been out a town a couple a weeks
and am trying to read all the messages
-----Original Message-----
From: bowdler(at)juno.com
Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: seat
>Mike Brusilow,
> I never sat in "Mr. Sam". I have lowered my seat about 1.5 in and
>"opened" the angle with the seat back to keep out of the wind stream (I'm
>long waisted) and attempt to increase comfort since I built the seat back
>to plans and it was already there. I plan to shape a thigh support for
>the front of the seat and use a cushion of two or three inches of
>Temperfoam. My shoulders are still about 4" above the turtle deck. My
>concern is the lowness to the floor causing my legs to stick more
>straight to the rudder bar causing discomfort on longer flights, hence
>the shaping of the foam to create more of a bucket seat effect.
> In light of your years of experience what thoughts do you have on
>the above?
>Thanks,
>Tom
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country |
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> You must have been burning auto fuel. No? 32 buck is pretty cheap for
> 5+hours.
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
The gas in Camrose was 100LL at .609 a liter and I filled it to the top
with 32 liters worth,$19.49 . In Bonnyville I bought auto fuel at almost
the exact same rate and I got $14 bucks worth. I guess that makes $33
not $32 .
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
Steve I really loved your story. I think the piet is the sort of
airplane that just naturally attracts adventure.When I was in Camrose
there were a lot of very shiny and expensive airplanes there and yet the
old Piet was among the most popular. I even had several people ask me if
I would pose by the prop and wear the helmut for pictures. Lots of kids
asked for rides and I answered a thousand questions.
I should also apolagise for all the gramer and spelling mistakes as
when I wrote this it was late. Thank you eveyone for your kind words.
Long live the Piet
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Springs |
Duane- Thanks for sharing your experience with the springs. Thats why this
group os so great! I'll order the heavier springs.
Al Swanson
>The 525 lb springs are much to light because of the machanical advantage of
>the arm. I know this from experience. I installed the 525lb springs and
>they let the gear sag clear to the stops. you need the super-heavy duty with
>about 1000lbs per .8 inch of compression. These compress 1/4" under empty
>load.
>
>Duane NX6398
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
Adolfo,
Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet... too many house and
workshop moves this year.... not to mention my forthcoming wedding! I am in
Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage aircraft business, do feel free
to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals do ship planes in from
abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but I'll try and find out useful
info for you.
Dominic Excell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding my tail |
Dear Danny,
In my job as a violin maker, we NEVER sand any joints, as quite apart from
the microscopic particles weakening the joint, it is virtually impossible to
get a completely flat wood to wood joint. The only 100% safe way to get good
results in violin making is to have a freshly cut surface, either planed,
chiselled or whatever is appropriate. I would suggest in the case of
jointing the longerons at the sternpost, the best way may well be to sand
first for quick wood removal, but finish off with a block plane. Do remember
that the plane blade will be blunted very quickly by the abrasive particles
left in the wood by the sander!
Happy jointing,
Dominic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
Dominic
Thanks for the welcome. I am just married as well... THAT=B4S A BAD M=
OVE!
Anyway, it'd be great to listen about your mates who are into this
shipping business, in order to clarify the panorama.
Please tell me more about this and about your project. It all sound
most like me.
Regards,
Adolfo Pando.
--- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
> Adolfo,
>
> Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet...
> too many house and
> workshop moves this year.... not to mention my
> forthcoming wedding! I am in
> Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage
> aircraft business, do feel free
> to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals
> do ship planes in from
> abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but
> I'll try and find out useful
> info for you.
>
> Dominic Excell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
Hi list. Mr. Grega suggested a McCauley 74 x 46 prop so that my cruise
would be closer to 85 mph at 2,200 rpms.
However, in thinking about it all, I'm really more interested in better
climb, but not necessarily fast cruise (I rather like the 65 mph I get now).
I'm currently running a wooden 72 x 44, but need to change to a metal prop
for the weight.
Anyone have anything or any suggestions?
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | First Cross Country |
At first, I thought that Wayne's account of his near fatal flight was
a joke. As of now, no disclaimer has been issued.
Think about it, the pilot admits he was low on fuel, but continues on.
He arrives at his destination on fumes, busts the traffic pattern & the
engine fails due to fuel starvation. Fortunately he makes the runway, &
publishes the incident in a humerous manner.
I for one do not believe that this sort of behavior relfects the
practices of the majority of Pietenpol flyers.
Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
At first, I thought that Wayne's
account
of his near fatal flight was a joke. As of now, no disclaimer has been
issued.
Think about it, the pilot admits he was low
on fuel,
but continues on. He arrives at his destination on fumes, busts the
traffic
pattern the engine fails due to fuel starvation. Fortunately he
makes the
runway, publishes the incident in a humerous manner.
I for one do not believe that this sort of behavior relfects
the
practices of the majority of Pietenpol flyers.
Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Ah, don't listen to him Dominic. Not only am I happily married, but my
wife has done all the fabric work on the plane so far. We both took the
fabricing course from AFS in Montana in March. Renee took to it like a
duck to water and has so far covered all the tail feathers. The neat thing
is that we are working together on the plane without actually "working
together". What i mean is that she is working in what we've designated the
"clean room" while I finish off the airframe in the garage. That way, we
don't get in each other's way. I've also set up the clean room with a TV,
complete with cable, good lighting, comfortable drafting style chair, and
anything else Renee has suggest so that she enjoys working there. I love
it. THe airplane is suddenly "ours", not "mine". This is actually a good
area to involve other members of the family with you project. It's fun and
not particularly demanding.
Ken
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Adolfo Pando wrote:
> Dominic
>
> Thanks for the welcome. I am just married as well... THAT=B4S A BAD MOVE!
> Anyway, it'd be great to listen about your mates who are into this
> shipping business, in order to clarify the panorama.
> Please tell me more about this and about your project. It all sound
> most like me.
> Regards,
>
> Adolfo Pando.
>
> --- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Adolfo,
> >
> > Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet...
> > too many house and
> > workshop moves this year.... not to mention my
> > forthcoming wedding! I am in
> > Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage
> > aircraft business, do feel free
> > to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals
> > do ship planes in from
> > abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but
> > I'll try and find out useful
> > info for you.
> >
> > Dominic Excell
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm hoping I can get my wife into the project as well, doing pretty
much the same thing. She is great with a needle (runs in her family).
And, reaching for the credit card (which is in my wife's name) is muc=
h
easier when it's OUR plane WE are buying material for! :)
Richard
--- Ken Beanlands wrote:
> Ah, don't listen to him Dominic. Not only am I happily married, but
> my
> wife has done all the fabric work on the plane so far. We both took
> the
> fabricing course from AFS in Montana in March. Renee took to it lik=
e
> a
> duck to water and has so far covered all the tail feathers. The nea=
t
> thing
> is that we are working together on the plane without actually
> "working
> together". What i mean is that she is working in what we've
> designated the
> "clean room" while I finish off the airframe in the garage. That wa=
y,
> we
> don't get in each other's way. I've also set up the clean room with=
a
> TV,
> complete with cable, good lighting, comfortable drafting style chai=
r,
> and
> anything else Renee has suggest so that she enjoys working there. I
> love
> it. THe airplane is suddenly "ours", not "mine". This is actually a
> good
> area to involve other members of the family with you project. It's
> fun and
> not particularly demanding.
>
> Ken
>
> On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Adolfo Pando wrote:
>
> > Dominic
> >
> > Thanks for the welcome. I am just married as well... THAT=B4S A B=
AD
> MOVE!
> > Anyway, it'd be great to listen about your mates who are into thi=
s
> > shipping business, in order to clarify the panorama.
> > Please tell me more about this and about your project. It all sou=
nd
> > most like me.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Adolfo Pando.
> >
> > --- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > Adolfo,
> > >
> > > Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet...
> > > too many house and
> > > workshop moves this year.... not to mention my
> > > forthcoming wedding! I am in
> > > Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage
> > > aircraft business, do feel free
> > > to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals
> > > do ship planes in from
> > > abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but
> > > I'll try and find out useful
> > > info for you.
> > >
> > > Dominic Excell
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
**
>
> When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your ey=
es
> turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always b=
e.
**
>
>
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?=
Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tav=
enner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Ken,
What would you take in trade for that woman?
John
-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Ken Beanlands
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 9:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: England
>Ah, don't listen to him Dominic. Not only am I happily married, but
my
>wife has done all the fabric work on the plane so far. We both took
the
>fabricing course from AFS in Montana in March. Renee took to it like=
a
>duck to water and has so far covered all the tail feathers. The neat=
thing
>is that we are working together on the plane without actually "worki=
ng
>together". What i mean is that she is working in what we've designat=
ed the
>"clean room" while I finish off the airframe in the garage. That way=
, we
>don't get in each other's way. I've also set up the clean room with
a TV,
>complete with cable, good lighting, comfortable drafting style chair=
, and
>anything else Renee has suggest so that she enjoys working there. I
love
>it. THe airplane is suddenly "ours", not "mine". This is actually a
good
>area to involve other members of the family with you project. It's f=
un and
>not particularly demanding.
>
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Adolfo Pando wrote:
>
>> Dominic
>>
>> Thanks for the welcome. I am just married as well... THAT=B4S A BA=
D MOVE!
>> Anyway, it'd be great to listen about your mates who are into this
>> shipping business, in order to clarify the panorama.
>> Please tell me more about this and about your project. It all soun=
d
>> most like me.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Adolfo Pando.
>>
>> --- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
>> > Adolfo,
>> >
>> > Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet...
>> > too many house and
>> > workshop moves this year.... not to mention my
>> > forthcoming wedding! I am in
>> > Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage
>> > aircraft business, do feel free
>> > to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals
>> > do ship planes in from
>> > abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but
>> > I'll try and find out useful
>> > info for you.
>> >
>> > Dominic Excell
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
*
>=
>When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your eye=
s
.
*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
Dear Ken,
My fingers are firmly wedged in my ears! This Piet is to be our joint
project too!
Dom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LEGAL ISSUES |
Gents;
Two or more seats , ya gotta have an ELT. In that part of Texas on west you
might want an ELT on your body, no?
On certified engines, CERTIFIED now, you have to have the paperwork , the
appropriate STC for autogas use. If your engines are decertified in the
logbooks then anything goes. My Champ (0-200) has an autogas STC which is
nothing more than paperwork saying it is OK as long as the autogas meets
certain ASTM specs, the oil filler tube (?) is tagged with the serial number
of that STC and a label is placed at each gas tank filler cap. NOTE: Auto
gas is more prone to vapor lock than avgas! Watch your gasline routings.
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LEGAL ISSUES
>Hello from Texas,
>
>Robert in Uvalde and I have a couple of legal questions
>to ask:
>
>1. Do our GN-1s need ELTs to be legal to fly?
>
>2. Can auto gas be used on his A-65 and my A-80
> without paperwork from the feds allowing its use.?
>
>We think we have the answers to the above questions, but
>feel the need those words of wisdom from the legal pros.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Mike King
>GN-1
>77MK
>Dallas, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
I've got two Model 'A' blocks from combines I'll trade you for your wife.
Mine thinks the only airplanes are the commerical Jets that take you to
Florida or Las Vegas and thats it.
In her defense though, she is going to Osh' with me this year.... Maybe
there's hope for a convert there...
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: England
>John;
> A Chevy 350 UNMODIFIED except for low tork cam (Marine or truck) but it
>has to have a two to one PSRU to work right. By this I mean the takeoff rpm
>would be 1800 at the prop and 3600 in the engine. That is about where the
>tork is best, more or less. Cruise is about 1400 prop and 2800 engine or
>about where it would be going down the highway at 65 mph in a vehicle. That
>rpm is kinda where they are designed to run forever on. There are numerous
>PSRU out now with several ratios. The direct drive 350's are used on the
>higher speed plastic go-fasts out at 250 mph or so and turn at 4400-5500
>rpm. TBO is low on them BUT, a NEW engine is "only" 1100 to 2200 bucks
>American depending long block/short block. The quality on these engines is
>"exceptional" I'm told. I have collected quite a bit of data, info, etc.,
to
>include web sites. Contact me directly off this chat line for more info. I
>have two blocks here to use as mock-ups but don't have the time due to my
>work schedule at G.E.........
>Earl Myers
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:28 AM
>Subject: Re: England
>
>
>>Interesting,
>>
>>I have had this concept floating in the back of my mind for some time -- A
>>project of an early biplane with a 350 Chev direct drive in place of an
>>OX-5. If you could get 110-120 hp out of the Chev it would be a large
>power
>>increase over the OX-5, be cheap, and have the right thrust-line,
>>sillouette, etc. I wonder how the weight would compare?
>>
>>Just lug the engine with a huge prop to keep the revs down, and use a
>>camshaft for lotsa torque at lower rpms....
>>
>>What is/was your plan?
>>
>>John
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Earl Myers
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:23 PM
>>Subject: Re: England
>>
>>
>>>I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
>>>Canadians!
>>>I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all
of
>>>it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to
redo
>>>his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I had
>>>started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working
7
>>>days a week so it waits..........
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
>>>Subject: England
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
>>>>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
>>>>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
>>>>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
>>>>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Nice to see there is another Domenic in the group. Shouldn't that be
...Domenic?
I'm hoping to make to to England next summer to visit all the museums...
aircraft that is.
Regards,
Domenic Bellissimo/ Toronto,Canada
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
Adolfo,
Welcome to England! I have yet to start my Piet... too many house and
workshop moves this year.... not to mention my forthcoming wedding! I am in
Norfolk, and know quite a few in the vintage aircraft business, do feel free
to contact me if you need addresses etc, as my pals do ship planes in from
abroad on occasion. No promises of success, but I'll try and find out
useful
info for you.
Dominic Excell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Sorry, she's a keeper.
Ken
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Greg Yotz wrote:
> I've got two Model 'A' blocks from combines I'll trade you for your wife.
> Mine thinks the only airplanes are the commerical Jets that take you to
> Florida or Las Vegas and thats it.
>
> In her defense though, she is going to Osh' with me this year.... Maybe
> there's hope for a convert there...
>
> GY
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Myers
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: England
>
>
> >John;
> > A Chevy 350 UNMODIFIED except for low tork cam (Marine or truck) but it
> >has to have a two to one PSRU to work right. By this I mean the takeoff rpm
> >would be 1800 at the prop and 3600 in the engine. That is about where the
> >tork is best, more or less. Cruise is about 1400 prop and 2800 engine or
> >about where it would be going down the highway at 65 mph in a vehicle. That
> >rpm is kinda where they are designed to run forever on. There are numerous
> >PSRU out now with several ratios. The direct drive 350's are used on the
> >higher speed plastic go-fasts out at 250 mph or so and turn at 4400-5500
> >rpm. TBO is low on them BUT, a NEW engine is "only" 1100 to 2200 bucks
> >American depending long block/short block. The quality on these engines is
> >"exceptional" I'm told. I have collected quite a bit of data, info, etc.,
> to
> >include web sites. Contact me directly off this chat line for more info. I
> >have two blocks here to use as mock-ups but don't have the time due to my
> >work schedule at G.E.........
> >Earl Myers
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:28 AM
> >Subject: Re: England
> >
> >
> >>Interesting,
> >>
> >>I have had this concept floating in the back of my mind for some time -- A
> >>project of an early biplane with a 350 Chev direct drive in place of an
> >>OX-5. If you could get 110-120 hp out of the Chev it would be a large
> >power
> >>increase over the OX-5, be cheap, and have the right thrust-line,
> >>sillouette, etc. I wonder how the weight would compare?
> >>
> >>Just lug the engine with a huge prop to keep the revs down, and use a
> >>camshaft for lotsa torque at lower rpms....
> >>
> >>What is/was your plan?
> >>
> >>John
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Earl Myers
> >>To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:23 PM
> >>Subject: Re: England
> >>
> >>
> >>>I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
> >>>Canadians!
> >>>I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all
> of
> >>>it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to
> redo
> >>>his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I had
> >>>started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working
> 7
> >>>days a week so it waits..........
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
> >>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
> >>>Subject: England
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
> >>>>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
> >>>>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
> >>>>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
> >>>>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LEGAL ISSUES |
Earl,
Thanks for the info. It is well appreciated.
Mike K.
>Gents;
> Two or more seats , ya gotta have an ELT. In that part of Texas on west you
>might want an ELT on your body, no?
>
>On certified engines, CERTIFIED now, you have to have the paperwork , the
>appropriate STC for autogas use. If your engines are decertified in the
>logbooks then anything goes. My Champ (0-200) has an autogas STC which is
>nothing more than paperwork saying it is OK as long as the autogas meets
>certain ASTM specs, the oil filler tube (?) is tagged with the serial number
>of that STC and a label is placed at each gas tank filler cap. NOTE: Auto
>gas is more prone to vapor lock than avgas! Watch your gasline routings.
>Earl
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:05 AM
>Subject: LEGAL ISSUES
>
>
>>Hello from Texas,
>>
>>Robert in Uvalde and I have a couple of legal questions
>>to ask:
>>
>>1. Do our GN-1s need ELTs to be legal to fly?
>>
>>2. Can auto gas be used on his A-65 and my A-80
>> without paperwork from the feds allowing its use.?
>>
>>We think we have the answers to the above questions, but
>>feel the need those words of wisdom from the legal pros.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Mike King
>>GN-1
>>77MK
>>Dallas, Texas
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>Ken
Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib stitched,
doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
airport,
take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
ruin all that. :))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
Does she have a sister?
>>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>>Ken
>
>Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
>9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>
>Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib stitched,
>doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
>rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
>it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
>airport,
>take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
>breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
>go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
>ruin all that. :))
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Three sisters actually, and one's single, but I got the cream of the crop.
Renee started out knowing next to nothing about flying but has become
quite knowledgable to the point of being able to identify those planes she
likes. Unfortunately, the planes she likes are generally out of our price
range like the Texan, Stearman, Waco, C-195, etc. Fortunately, she does
like the high wing Cessnas. Ideally, I'd like to pick up a Cessna 150/152
for her to get her license in and fly after. I think it would be great hit
the Fly-ins with her on my wing.
Now, all I need to do is talk her into going to OSH with me next summer
instead of going home for our vacation......
Ken
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Michael King wrote:
> Does she have a sister?
>
>
>
>
> >>Sorry, she's a keeper.
> >>Ken
> >
> >Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
> >9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
> >
> >Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib stitched,
> >doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
> >rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
> >it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
> >airport,
> >take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
> >breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
> >go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
> >ruin all that. :))
> >
> >Mike C.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg(at)controlvision.com (Greg Yotz) |
Wow where in all of heaven did you find her? And I never read that you've
married her yet....
Does that mean she's kinda sorta available????? ;-)
What does she do that she has to go to Osh????
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken's Wife
>>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>>Ken
>
>Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
>9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>
>Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib
stitched,
>doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
>rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
>it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
>airport,
>take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
>breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
>go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
>ruin all that. :))
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
No Domenic,
Surely you should be DomInic???
Make sure you visit the Imperial War Museum at Duxford, Cambs. There is a
new gallery of US aircraft. By the way, I rebuilt the wings for the Stearman
hanging in there. Also visit Eastern Stearman at Swanton Morley, Norfolk.
That is where the Stearman was rebuilt for the museum, there are usually 3 or
4 in various stages of reconstruction, plus 3 or 4 hangared there, in flying
condition.
Dominic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
DomInic
(you see?) Sorry about the misprint.
I surely will visit all of that. As a matter of fact, I am in
Colindale, just a few minutes walk from the RAF museum. That one is
superb, too.
Adolfo.
--- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
> No Domenic,
>
> Surely you should be DomInic???
> Make sure you visit the Imperial War Museum at
> Duxford, Cambs. There is a
> new gallery of US aircraft. By the way, I rebuilt
> the wings for the Stearman
> hanging in there. Also visit Eastern Stearman at
> Swanton Morley, Norfolk.
> That is where the Stearman was rebuilt for the
> museum, there are usually 3 or
> 4 in various stages of reconstruction, plus 3 or 4
> hangared there, in flying
> condition.
>
> Dominic
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
DomInic
(you see?) Sorry about the misprint.
I surely will visit all of that. As a matter of fact, I am in
Colindale, just a few minutes walk from the RAF museum. That one is
superb, too.
Adolfo.
--- DXLViolins(at)aol.com wrote:
> No Domenic,
>
> Surely you should be DomInic???
> Make sure you visit the Imperial War Museum at
> Duxford, Cambs. There is a
> new gallery of US aircraft. By the way, I rebuilt
> the wings for the Stearman
> hanging in there. Also visit Eastern Stearman at
> Swanton Morley, Norfolk.
> That is where the Stearman was rebuilt for the
> museum, there are usually 3 or
> 4 in various stages of reconstruction, plus 3 or 4
> hangared there, in flying
> condition.
>
> Dominic
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey) |
Organization:
Hello Piet fans,
I was just reading my new issue of "gasp" Rotorcraft Magazine and there
is an article about some guys from NZ that are coming out with some mods
for the Subaru EA81 to make it a better aero engine. Mainly new
cylinder heads that have individual ports and twin spark plugs. They
claim a big improvement in porformance without a loss in reliability.
Whenever I see something like this I always think in terms of will it
work on a Piet? They do have a web site and the article says they will
be at Oshkosh this year. see www.sub4.8m.com
Regards,
Bob Bailey
BTW - I have no connection of any kind with this company.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LanhamOS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: for John McNarry |
Siorry is I mispelled last name.. I read two air periodicals from across
the Pond.
One is Air Internation, with lots of information. The other is Fly Past.
Latest issue has an article of a complete rebuild by a group of retirees from
Sabena. If you want me to send the mag, send address.
How are you coming withthe project?
Dr. Orville E. Lanham, Bellevue, Ne. 68005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stevee's most recent run in with the law.... |
Way to go Steve! That's what it's all about and the way it oughta be ! I
know how you felt. I had a similar off airport experience in Tejon Pass just
south of Bakersfield. I had the Sheriff, State Police, FAA, and both the
Bakersfield newspaper and TV station. It was a blast and a story that any
low and slow flytype enjoys.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
You are a blessed man Mike!
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken's Wife
>>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>>Ken
>
>Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
>9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>
>Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib
stitched,
>doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
>rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
>it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
>airport,
>take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
>breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
>go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
>ruin all that. :))
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: for John McNarry |
Hi Orville:
Hope you are well! I have access to both of those periodicals at the
CATP Museum. But thanks anyway!
I made the straight axle for my Piet last month, but haven't been working on
it much lately as the museum is taking up most of my spare time. I am the
"head" of the MT or Motor Transport Section and with this year being the
75th Anniversary of the RCAF, they wanted to use our 1940 Chev. Staff car to
transport dignitaries at their celebrations on June 6th. There is quite a
difference between a Museum piece and a roadworthy or flightworthy vehicle.
The annuals are due on the Harvard, Cornell and DH 82a, so that too is
keeping me busy. At least it is aviation oriented.
Good to hear from you
MThead :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: LanhamOS(at)aol.com <LanhamOS(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 4:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: for John McNarry
> Siorry is I mispelled last name.. I read two air periodicals from across
>the Pond.
>One is Air Internation, with lots of information. The other is Fly Past.
>Latest issue has an article of a complete rebuild by a group of retirees
from
>Sabena. If you want me to send the mag, send address.
> How are you coming withthe project?
> Dr. Orville E. Lanham, Bellevue, Ne. 68005
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Streamlined tube |
Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs.
Is
this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like to
use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut
material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the other
to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinion
here?
For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> >Sorry, she's a keeper.
> >Ken
>
> Ken
> go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
> ruin all that. :))
>
> Mike C.
Your absolutly right, without a good wife that looks after me and our
children it would be next to impossible to do the things I do.
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LEGAL ISSUES |
Robert,
You ever know a guy named Homer Hillis in Uvalde, TX?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: LEGAL ISSUES
>Gents;
> Two or more seats , ya gotta have an ELT. In that part of Texas on west
you
>might want an ELT on your body, no?
>
>On certified engines, CERTIFIED now, you have to have the paperwork , the
>appropriate STC for autogas use. If your engines are decertified in the
>logbooks then anything goes. My Champ (0-200) has an autogas STC which is
>nothing more than paperwork saying it is OK as long as the autogas meets
>certain ASTM specs, the oil filler tube (?) is tagged with the serial
number
>of that STC and a label is placed at each gas tank filler cap. NOTE: Auto
>gas is more prone to vapor lock than avgas! Watch your gasline routings.
>Earl
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:05 AM
>Subject: LEGAL ISSUES
>
>
>>Hello from Texas,
>>
>>Robert in Uvalde and I have a couple of legal questions
>>to ask:
>>
>>1. Do our GN-1s need ELTs to be legal to fly?
>>
>>2. Can auto gas be used on his A-65 and my A-80
>> without paperwork from the feds allowing its use.?
>>
>>We think we have the answers to the above questions, but
>>feel the need those words of wisdom from the legal pros.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Mike King
>>GN-1
>>77MK
>>Dallas, Texas
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Skip OSH, take her to Brodhead.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <greg(at)controlvision.com>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 12:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: England
>I've got two Model 'A' blocks from combines I'll trade you for your wife.
>Mine thinks the only airplanes are the commerical Jets that take you to
>Florida or Las Vegas and thats it.
>
>In her defense though, she is going to Osh' with me this year.... Maybe
>there's hope for a convert there...
>
>GY
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:31 AM
>Subject: Re: England
>
>
>>John;
>> A Chevy 350 UNMODIFIED except for low tork cam (Marine or truck) but it
>>has to have a two to one PSRU to work right. By this I mean the takeoff
rpm
>>would be 1800 at the prop and 3600 in the engine. That is about where the
>>tork is best, more or less. Cruise is about 1400 prop and 2800 engine or
>>about where it would be going down the highway at 65 mph in a vehicle.
That
>>rpm is kinda where they are designed to run forever on. There are numerous
>>PSRU out now with several ratios. The direct drive 350's are used on the
>>higher speed plastic go-fasts out at 250 mph or so and turn at 4400-5500
>>rpm. TBO is low on them BUT, a NEW engine is "only" 1100 to 2200 bucks
>>American depending long block/short block. The quality on these engines is
>>"exceptional" I'm told. I have collected quite a bit of data, info, etc.,
>to
>>include web sites. Contact me directly off this chat line for more info. I
>>have two blocks here to use as mock-ups but don't have the time due to my
>>work schedule at G.E.........
>>Earl Myers
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:28 AM
>>Subject: Re: England
>>
>>
>>>Interesting,
>>>
>>>I have had this concept floating in the back of my mind for some time --
A
>>>project of an early biplane with a 350 Chev direct drive in place of an
>>>OX-5. If you could get 110-120 hp out of the Chev it would be a large
>>power
>>>increase over the OX-5, be cheap, and have the right thrust-line,
>>>sillouette, etc. I wonder how the weight would compare?
>>>
>>>Just lug the engine with a huge prop to keep the revs down, and use a
>>>camshaft for lotsa torque at lower rpms....
>>>
>>>What is/was your plan?
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Earl Myers
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 1:23 PM
>>>Subject: Re: England
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have some sources for Jenny plans....most helpfull (as usual) were the
>>>>Canadians!
>>>>I originally had all the microfilm available on Jennies but donated all
>of
>>>>it to Cole Palen when his house burned down. He did use some of it to
>redo
>>>>his JN6 radiator......Adolfo, where did you get your Jenny info???? I
had
>>>>started one (Canuck version) with a Chevy 350 engine but started working
>7
>>>>days a week so it waits..........
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com>
>>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 11:30 AM
>>>>Subject: England
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am actually building a Jenny, but I really sympathise with piets and
>>>>>would surely like to get a bit more involved.
>>>>>I wonder if you can help me find the piet fans in England, where I
>>>>>moved to from Argentina. Any information about shipping companies to
>>>>>move my bird would also be more than welcome. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
What would you take in trade for THAT woman?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ken's Wife
>>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>>Ken
>
>Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
>9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>
>Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib
stitched,
>doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
>rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
>it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
>airport,
>take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
>breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
>go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
>ruin all that. :))
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
I ain't no engineer but......
If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'll gain
some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carry a
Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Y
strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.
Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've never heard
of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causing an
accident in a Piet.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: wayne
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamlined tube
>
> Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs. Is
>this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like to
>use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
>streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut
>material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the other
>to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinion
>here?
> For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?
>
>Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LEGAL ISSUES |
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 8:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: LEGAL ISSUES
Hi John, yes, I knew Homer. Used to play the fiddle with him some.
RH
>Robert,
>
>You ever know a guy named Homer Hillis in Uvalde, TX?
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:31 AM
>Subject: Re: LEGAL ISSUES
>
>
>>Gents;
>> Two or more seats , ya gotta have an ELT. In that part of Texas on west
>you
>>might want an ELT on your body, no?
>>
>>On certified engines, CERTIFIED now, you have to have the paperwork , the
>>appropriate STC for autogas use. If your engines are decertified in the
>>logbooks then anything goes. My Champ (0-200) has an autogas STC which is
>>nothing more than paperwork saying it is OK as long as the autogas meets
>>certain ASTM specs, the oil filler tube (?) is tagged with the serial
>number
>>of that STC and a label is placed at each gas tank filler cap. NOTE: Auto
>>gas is more prone to vapor lock than avgas! Watch your gasline routings.
>>Earl
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:05 AM
>>Subject: LEGAL ISSUES
>>
>>
>>>Hello from Texas,
>>>
>>>Robert in Uvalde and I have a couple of legal questions
>>>to ask:
>>>
>>>1. Do our GN-1s need ELTs to be legal to fly?
>>>
>>>2. Can auto gas be used on his A-65 and my A-80
>>> without paperwork from the feds allowing its use.?
>>>
>>>We think we have the answers to the above questions, but
>>>feel the need those words of wisdom from the legal pros.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>Mike King
>>>GN-1
>>>77MK
>>>Dallas, Texas
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Site |
RDeets(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets">http//www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets
>
Looks nice! Interesting the cutouts of the side ply.
Did you cut out the 3/32 " ply on the bottom aft of the pilot seat also?
I never really felt like the bottom ply or the ply on the sides behind
the pilot seat was necessary as long as you put big ole fat gussetts at
every intersection of longerons/diagonals/verticals. Isnt that the way
Mr Pietenpol designed the Piet? It also looks like you may have added
some torsional bracing at a couple of the stations , too. I dont
remember that in the plans - but makes goood sense. It should be
strong. Just my 2 cents.
Later, Bert
bwm(at)planttel.net
www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle industry we call
it airfoil tubing)
I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The major axis
is 3.125 and
the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it would work
for lift struts.
Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
John Greenlee wrote:
> I ain't no engineer but......
>
> If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'll gain
> some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carry a
> Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Y
> strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.
>
> Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
>
> Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've never heard
> of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causing an
> accident in a Piet.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wayne
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
> Subject: Streamlined tube
>
> >
> > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs. Is
> >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like to
> >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
> >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut
> >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the other
> >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinion
> >here?
> > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?
> >
> >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
| Subject: | Intro from Mike Cushway |
Just a quick note to introduce myself. My name is Mike Cushway, I live
in south/central
Wisconsin, and am a Mfg. Eng. with Trek Bicycle Corp. I will be building
an Air Camper
over the course of the next year. I have harbored dreams of building a
plane for many years.
After an introduction to the Pietenpol by Bill Rewey, (and young eagle
flights for the kids)
I was hooked. I intend on using the "A" as a power source. Any info. on
"A" aftermarket
sources would be greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear
from those running
babbit as to pros and cons. Thanx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mike's Girlfriend |
Mike She sounds like a keeper Too.
John Duprey
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> >Sorry, she's a keeper.
> >Ken
>
> Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
> 9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>
> Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib stitched,
> doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
> rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
> it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
> airport,
> take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
> breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
> go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
> ruin all that. :))
>
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Welcome Mike! Find your local Model A Club chapter, they can help you
find a good "A" in your area.
John Duprey
mike cushway wrote:
>
> Just a quick note to introduce myself. My name is Mike Cushway, I live
> in south/central
> Wisconsin, and am a Mfg. Eng. with Trek Bicycle Corp. I will be building
> an Air Camper
> over the course of the next year. I have harbored dreams of building a
> plane for many years.
> After an introduction to the Pietenpol by Bill Rewey, (and young eagle
> flights for the kids)
> I was hooked. I intend on using the "A" as a power source. Any info. on
> "A" aftermarket
> sources would be greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear
> from those running
> babbit as to pros and cons. Thanx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | User554784(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Mike,
Let me introduce myself to you and the rest of the group. My name is Phil
Cianciolo. Like most Piet builders I have been planing this for years and
have finally got my project underway. Recently I acquired several "A"
blocks. Can't use them all and would like to sell or trade the extras. I have
posted the information on the BPA website if you are interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Mike;
You must be right on top of the guys at Broadhead, Wi., no?
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 10:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Intro from Mike Cushway
>Just a quick note to introduce myself. My name is Mike Cushway, I live
>in south/central
>Wisconsin, and am a Mfg. Eng. with Trek Bicycle Corp. I will be building
>an Air Camper
>over the course of the next year. I have harbored dreams of building a
>plane for many years.
>After an introduction to the Pietenpol by Bill Rewey, (and young eagle
>flights for the kids)
>I was hooked. I intend on using the "A" as a power source. Any info. on
>"A" aftermarket
>sources would be greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear
>from those running
>babbit as to pros and cons. Thanx.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Hey Mike!
Welcome aboard and best wishes for your ship!
By the way, I happen to pilot one of your company's fine products.
If your airplane fabrication is anything like your bicycle engineering, then
you're definitely on the right track, err.. Trek....
LLN
mike cushway wrote:
> Just a quick note to introduce myself. My name is Mike Cushway, I live
> in south/central
> Wisconsin, and am a Mfg. Eng. with Trek Bicycle Corp. I will be building
> an Air Camper
> over the course of the next year. I have harbored dreams of building a
> plane for many years.
> After an introduction to the Pietenpol by Bill Rewey, (and young eagle
> flights for the kids)
> I was hooked. I intend on using the "A" as a power source. Any info. on
> "A" aftermarket
> sources would be greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear
> from those running
> babbit as to pros and cons. Thanx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DXLViolins(at)aol.com |
Does anyone have any idea what files attached to Piet list emails and named
"unknown" are? Are they safe to open?
Dominic (with an "i" and not an "e") :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Yesterdays Wings Fly in |
Hey gang does anybody know if Yesterdays Wings is doing a Piet Fly In
this year? Last year was rained out... I have been trying to reach Gary
but no luck...
John Duprey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: attached files |
I'm always skeptical of any attached files. First save them, and then use a
current virus detection software on them. I move about 2 dozen email a
day.(not including here) And lots of attached files. I can't tell you how
many 'piggy back' viruses I've confronted on emails. Especially the
Happy99.exe virus. Seems like I was helping people I do business with get
rid of viruses more than my own work.
Sometimes it can also be the persons 'card'. Which is just an email
business card. If your reader doesn't deal with HTML well it will appear as
an attached file.
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: DXLViolins(at)aol.com <DXLViolins(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 6:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: attached files
>Does anyone have any idea what files attached to Piet list emails and named
>"unknown" are? Are they safe to open?
>
>
>Dominic (with an "i" and not an "e") :-)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Streamlined tube |
I imagine that would work great. Is there any internal reinforcing
extrusions or just hollow?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> mike cushway
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:49 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube
>
>
> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the
> bicycle industry we call
> it airfoil tubing)
> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum
> tubing. The major axis
> is 3.125 and
> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think
> that it would work
> for lift struts.
> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
>
> John Greenlee wrote:
>
> > I ain't no engineer but......
> >
> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type
> steel you'll gain
> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline
> tube will carry a
> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P
> L E N T Y
> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust
> and corrosion.
> >
> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
> >
> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes.
> I've never heard
> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs)
> and causing an
> > accident in a Piet.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wayne
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
> > Subject: Streamlined tube
> >
> > >
> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined
> struts from cubs. Is
> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to
> tell? I'd like to
> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard
> wing strut
> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded
> inside the other
> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's
> the group opinion
> > >here?
> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or
> going dual ignition?
> > >
> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Mike,
What are you smoking? That's not a woman. That's a goddess, a dream lady,
fantasia. You are very fortunate. Good luck to you both.
>Does she have a sister?
>
>
>>>Sorry, she's a keeper.
>>>Ken
>>
>>Ken- Your wife sounds like a keeper. Here's my story. Married for
>>9 1/2 years, wife liked to fly in the Champ but left me for a cowboy.
>>
>>Since then (8 years) a few girlfriends later, this current one rib stitched,
>>doped, glued, cut wood, washes bugs, waxes wings, polishes alum.
>>rims, degreases engines, lets me borrow her video camera while I strap
>>it to the cabanes and go fly, likes to go for rides, cooks out at the
>>airport,
>>take still photos of the plane on fly by's, goes flying w/ me, buys
>>breakfast at pancake fly-in's, helps passengers in and out, and has to
>>go to Osh for her job and gets me some freebies. I wouldn't want to
>>ruin all that. :))
>>
>>Mike C.
>>
>>
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | subscription info |
I am still getting a number of subscribe and unsubscribe requests.
Please check out richards page for the automated sub/unsubscribe script.
I use it for all the requests I get.
See:
http://www.aircamper.org/MailingList.cfm
Thanks, and have a great weekend,
Steve Eldredge
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Randy" <RSmith2(at)reedtool.com> |
Has anyone wondered, along with me, why when North American designed the P51
Mustang, they copied the profile of thePietenpol vertical stabilizer and
rudder?
Steve, please check to see if I am double subscribed....got 181 messages in
two days!
________________________________________________________________________________
Randy, fix it yourself by going to www.aircamper.org.
unsubscribe
then
subscribe.
It will remove every occurance of you address and then put one back on.
WoooHa. (not to be confused with viola, wala, etc...)
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Smith, Randy
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 9:11 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject:
>
>
> Has anyone wondered, along with me, why when North American
> designed the P51
> Mustang, they copied the profile of thePietenpol vertical
> stabilizer and
> rudder?
>
> Steve, please check to see if I am double subscribed....got
> 181 messages in
> two days!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
Hurray,
Finally found someone (Brian Kenny) who could look at my Carb. (NSA-3A1) and
find out what the problem was that I was having. The carb. was not set up
right by the mechanic that sold it to me. The float level was too low giving
me a very lean mixture. The fix should yield me more power and a rich
mixture that the corvair needs not to detonate pistons. There you have it.
My Cylinders are being honed today. They will be installed tonight with the
new forged pistons. Then I can put everything else back together. I hope to
have it in the Brampton Flying Clubs' static display and airshow the
following week.
There is hope,
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Corvair/Carb. |
Congratulations Domenico! It gets me how a problem can go round and round and
end up with a solution that seems so logical once you find it. Gives us all flat
foreheads from all the "dope slaps".
Bill Sayre
> ----------
> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC[SMTP:Bellissimo.Dominic(at)littonlsl.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 9:02 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Corvair/Carb.
>
> Hurray,
>
> Finally found someone (Brian Kenny) who could look at my Carb. (NSA-3A1) and
> find out what the problem was that I was having. The carb. was not set up
> right by the mechanic that sold it to me. The float level was too low giving
> me a very lean mixture. The fix should yield me more power and a rich
> mixture that the corvair needs not to detonate pistons. There you have it.
> My Cylinders are being honed today. They will be installed tonight with the
> new forged pistons. Then I can put everything else back together. I hope to
> have it in the Brampton Flying Clubs' static display and airshow the
> following week.
>
> There is hope,
>
> Domenico
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair/Carb. |
Domenico,
I have a Bendix/Stromberg NSA-3A1 carb on my C-85. It is off for cleaning
and repair. i have not been able to find anyone that has an overhaul
manual. Could you provide float settings and other data for properly
setting up the carburetor? Many thanks for any help you, or anyone might be
able to assist with.
Sincerely,
Randall Reihing
>Hurray,
>
>Finally found someone (Brian Kenny) who could look at my Carb. (NSA-3A1) and
>find out what the problem was that I was having. The carb. was not set up
>right by the mechanic that sold it to me. The float level was too low giving
>me a very lean mixture. The fix should yield me more power and a rich
>mixture that the corvair needs not to detonate pistons. There you have it.
>My Cylinders are being honed today. They will be installed tonight with the
>new forged pistons. Then I can put everything else back together. I hope to
>have it in the Brampton Flying Clubs' static display and airshow the
>following week.
>
>There is hope,
>
>Domenico
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Domenico,
I have a Bendix/Stromberg NSA-3A1 carb on my C-85. It is off for cleaning
and repair. i have not been able to find anyone that has an overhaul
manual. Could you provide float settings and other data for properly
setting up the carburetor? Many thanks for any help you, or anyone might be
able to assist with.
Sincerely,
Randall Reihing
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair/Carb. |
Great, Dom! Happy landings!
-----Original Message-----
From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 10:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair/Carb.
>Hurray,
>
>Finally found someone (Brian Kenny) who could look at my Carb. (NSA-3A1)
and
>find out what the problem was that I was having. The carb. was not set up
>right by the mechanic that sold it to me. The float level was too low
giving
>me a very lean mixture. The fix should yield me more power and a rich
>mixture that the corvair needs not to detonate pistons. There you have it.
>My Cylinders are being honed today. They will be installed tonight with the
>new forged pistons. Then I can put everything else back together. I hope to
>have it in the Brampton Flying Clubs' static display and airshow the
>following week.
>
>There is hope,
>
>Domenico
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
>I've got two Model 'A' blocks from combines I'll trade you for your wife.
>Mine thinks the only airplanes are the commerical Jets that take you to
>Florida or Las Vegas and thats it.
>
>In her defense though, she is going to Osh' with me this year.... Maybe
>there's hope for a convert there...
>
>
A good Idea would be at Oshkosh an "EAA Aircraft Mission" Tent, where
they could be missionaires (read, converted pilots wifes) doing the hard
work of converting all the pilots wifes visiting Oshkosh, to Airplane
Religion :-)
Same happens to me, Mi wife doesnt want to know about planes at all.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Guadalajara, Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: attached files |
>Does anyone have any idea what files attached to Piet list emails and named
>"unknown" are? Are they safe to open?
>
>
>Dominic (with an "i" and not an "e") :-)
>
>
In my mail sometimes are attached some "little" files (generaly about 1 to 3
kb) that are generated from some mail programs. They are always several
with the same extension. what I do once a week, I open the Windows explorer
and ask for the extension sorting then delete all this little useless files.
In my mail they come as "attachments".
Hope this helps
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Hello,
I need an ELT for my Piet. Cheap used one without measurable weight
operating on D batteries preferred. Any of y'all got one to sell or
know of one?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Could this be true? |
Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online
and
continue using email: The last few months have revealed an
alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting
to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of
the
Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will
be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees".
Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge
on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at
source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.
Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to
prevent this legislation from becoming law.
The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the
proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per
year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is
nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about 10
pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual
would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per
year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that
this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a
service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet
is democracy and non-interference. If the federal government is
permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to
email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an
exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic efficiency.
It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from
New York to Buffalo.
If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will
mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One
congressman, Tony Schnell =AE has even suggested a "twenty to
forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above
and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that
most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only
exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email
surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th
1999 Editorial. Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away!
Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your
friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say
"No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your
time,
and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Could this be true? |
No, this is not true, it is most definately a hoax. Someone with
waaaaaay too much time on their hands starting trouble again. For a
detailed explanation of this hoax, go here:
http://www.skali.com.my/technology/lea/199905/22/lea19990522_36.html
There is also a statement on the US Postal Service home page saying it
is a hoax: http://www.usps.gov/
Happy surfing all.
Richard
--- dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org> wrote:
> Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online
> and
> continue using email: The last few months have revealed an
> alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting
> to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of
> the
> Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will
> be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees".
> Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge
> on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at
> source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.
> Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to
> prevent this legislation from becoming law.
>
> The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the
> proliferation of email is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per
> year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is
> nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about 10
> pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual
> would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per
> year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that
> this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a
> service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet
> is democracy and non-interference. If the federal government is
> permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to
> email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an
> exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic efficiency.
>
>
> It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from
> New York to Buffalo.
>
>
> If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will
> mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One
> congressman, Tony Schnell =AE has even suggested a "twenty to
> forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above
> and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that
> most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only
> exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email
> surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th
> 1999 Editorial. Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away!
>
> Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your
> friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say
> "No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your
> time,
> and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want.
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Could this be true? |
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> No, this is not true, it is most definately a hoax. Someone with
> waaaaaay too much time on their hands starting trouble again. For a
> detailed explanation of this hoax, go here:
>
> http://www.skali.com.my/technology/lea/199905/22/lea19990522_36.html
>
> There is also a statement on the US Postal Service home page saying it
> is a hoax: http://www.usps.gov/
>
> Happy surfing all.
> Richard
>
Thanks Richard,
You helped soothe MY Feathers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Hi Mike
Welcome aboard. If ya need wing ordinates, see my scout page at
aircamper.org
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Richard,
I guess you've read by now that I decided NOT to build a Piet.
Maybe my next one will be. Anyway I am building a Martin Fairwind which
is a "wood and wire" craft much like the Piet is. I will be happy to
share it with you and still look forward to the groups support.....if
they don't stone me that is. Let me know if you still want photo's, and
keep up the good work with the site. I would still like to be certified
before Osh next year. It's still too early to tell if that is a feasible
goal. More later.
DannyMac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Could this be true? |
This same hoax came out a few monthes ago but at that time it was Canada
Post that was the target. Check with the source at <http://www.usps.gov>
for teh real story.
Ken
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
> Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online
> and
> continue using email: The last few months have revealed an
> alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting
> to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of
> the
> Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will
> be attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees".
> Bill 602P will permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge
> on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at
> source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.
> Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to
> prevent this legislation from becoming law.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dannymac,
I'm curious about the Martin Fairwind. Where would I find info on
the net?
Thanks,
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Martin Fairwind |
bholbrook wrote:
>
> Dannymac,
> I'm curious about the Martin Fairwind. Where would I find info
> on the net?
> Thanks,
> Bruce
Hello again Bruce,
You won't be able to. There isn't anything out there. The Fairwind is
nothing more than a plagiarized "Piet" with wider fuselage, different
tailfeathers, wingtips and slightly taller undercarriage. The
construction is similar but incorporating several other things I've
learned from the shade-jocks over the years. It certainly isn't a Piet.
I learned that quickly enough. I was intrigued by some of the changes
several builders made to their projects and wanted to incorporate
several things of my own, so I got together with my folks and came up
with something to call it in order to minimize the damage as I step on
some toes. Richard may carry my build on his site, or I may get run off
with a stick.....I dunno yet. I expect I'll take some more flak over
this before I am through, but this is what I want to do. "Martin", by
the way, is a family surname......we aren't all Scot.
Thanks for asking. We must have drummed up a catchy name.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Group,
Mr. Peters in Calgary has been so helpful passing on many hints
about construction techniques and short cuts. I decided to use that
"Structan" brand glue that the Canadians have been using for many years
now. I beleive there is only one supplier in the States for it. It has a
30 min. work time, 2 hour clamp time, and a 7 day fully cure time. I
glued 2 samples of that Australian hoop-pine plywood (5 ply) 1/4". After
33 hours I pryed the joint (not sheered) and it separated across 3 plys
splintering at each layer. I couldn't ask for any better than that.
I have an almost empty table waiting for wood. I bought 200 2"x#12
flathead (phillip) wood screws and made rib jigs (six of 'em) out of
them by building a pattern rib out of fir I had laying around and
screwing them all into the top of the table using the pattern rib as a
guide. I beleive I can make quick work of this part of the process.
Big Thanks to everyone.
DannyMac
P.S. Wood was held up by weather, Jean said it was to be shipped Friday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway] |
Thanx for all the welcomes. I can already tell that this is going to be
a very supportive group!
I am currently researching rebuilding options on the "A" engines. I have
(2) of them, actually
one is a "AA" out of a delivery truck. I have already contacted Ron
Kelly and rec'd a std.
price /option list. If any of you "A" powered Piet owners have
rebuilding advise I would sure
like to hear from you. Based on my previous antique tractor restoration
experience, I feel that
a properly done babbitt job should work fine for this application. How
do you set these motors
up to handle the increased thrust load on the "rear" main? Can any of
you recommend a source
for aluminum heads? What seems to be the preferred mag. setup? I see
that MAC'S shows a
full flow oil filter conversion for the "A". Anyone have any experience
with that setup?
I know that a lot of these questions can be answered at Brodhead (40
miles away), but I would
like to do as much research beforehand as possible. Thanx again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Intro from Mike Cushway |
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44
(NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS))
Welcome Mike! Find your local Model A Club chapter, they can help you
find a good "A" in your area.
John Duprey
mike cushway wrote:
>
> Just a quick note to introduce myself. My name is Mike Cushway, I live
> in south/central
> Wisconsin, and am a Mfg. Eng. with Trek Bicycle Corp. I will be building
> an Air Camper
> over the course of the next year. I have harbored dreams of building a
> plane for many years.
> After an introduction to the Pietenpol by Bill Rewey, (and young eagle
> flights for the kids)
> I was hooked. I intend on using the "A" as a power source. Any info. on
> "A" aftermarket
> sources would be greatly appreciated. I would especially like to hear
> from those running
> babbit as to pros and cons. Thanx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
List: Still being a bit concerned about the W & B of my GN-1 (A tad tail
heavy on paper), I'm considering moving the engine forward about 1". This
seems like it can be done with the existing engine mount, and using spacers
between the engine mount and the firewall. Only thing necessary to change
is the length of the engine mount/firewall bolts. All cables, wiring,
hoses, etc are long enough for the move.
Question: If the planes empty CG (no fuel, but with oil in the con. 65) is
16.2" right now, how can I calculate where the empty CG will be if I move
the engine forward 1"? The GN-1 empty weight is 665 lbs, but taking one
half of this figure and trying to scoot it forward doesn't work. Another
formula perhaps?
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A was: Re: [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway] |
Mike:
I've long wondered about the A engine and the Ford 8N & 9N tractor
engines which appear very similar, but use inserts rather than
babbited bearings. I don't have any specs on these engines though I
have in the past done major overhauls on a couple of 8Ns. Rumor has
it that the 8N motor is a modernized variant of the A engine, but
there are a number of differences. The 8N has two distributer
locations, neither of which corresponds to the A which has the
distributer hole in the head. One variant uses a front mounted
distributer (older), and the other variant has a side mounted
distributer alongside the block. Both to the best of my knowledge use
Ford's famous paper thin sleeves known as "tin can sleeves", and both
have modern bearings and full pressure oiling.
I've been wondering about these engines as a substitute for the A
engine in a Piet a they are a superior engine in a number of ways, but
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 6:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway]
>Thanx for all the welcomes. I can already tell that this is going to
be
>a very supportive group!
>I am currently researching rebuilding options on the "A" engines. I
have
>(2) of them, actually
>one is a "AA" out of a delivery truck. I have already contacted Ron
>Kelly and rec'd a std.
>price /option list. If any of you "A" powered Piet owners have
>rebuilding advise I would sure
>like to hear from you. Based on my previous antique tractor
restoration
>experience, I feel that
>a properly done babbitt job should work fine for this application.
How
>do you set these motors
>up to handle the increased thrust load on the "rear" main? Can any of
>you recommend a source
>for aluminum heads? What seems to be the preferred mag. setup? I see
>that MAC'S shows a
>full flow oil filter conversion for the "A". Anyone have any
experience
>with that setup?
>I know that a lot of these questions can be answered at Brodhead (40
>miles away), but I would
>like to do as much research beforehand as possible. Thanx again.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
DannyMac:
What kind of glue is this?? Resourcinol? Epoxy? Urea
Formaldehyde? Casien? I've never heard of it.
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: progress
>Dear Group,
>
> Mr. Peters in Calgary has been so helpful passing on many hints
>about construction techniques and short cuts. I decided to use that
>"Structan" brand glue that the Canadians have been using for many
years
>now. I beleive there is only one supplier in the States for it. It
has a
>30 min. work time, 2 hour clamp time, and a 7 day fully cure time. I
>glued 2 samples of that Australian hoop-pine plywood (5 ply) 1/4".
After
>33 hours I pryed the joint (not sheered) and it separated across 3
plys
>splintering at each layer. I couldn't ask for any better than that.
> I have an almost empty table waiting for wood. I bought 200
2"x#12
>flathead (phillip) wood screws and made rib jigs (six of 'em) out of
>them by building a pattern rib out of fir I had laying around and
>screwing them all into the top of the table using the pattern rib as
a
>guide. I beleive I can make quick work of this part of the process.
>Big Thanks to everyone.
>
>DannyMac
>
>P.S. Wood was held up by weather, Jean said it was to be shipped
Friday.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A was: Re: [Fwd: Intro from Mike |
Cushway]
Howard,
Though they are similar, the tractor engine is much more robust in
design.
Remember, it was made to work endless hours all year long on sometimes
very little maintainence. I would guess it to be at least 50# heavier.
At best you will get about 25hp out of the tractor engine.
Did you know that Funk made a V-8 (flathead) conversion for the 8N.
Are there any Piets running with the flathead V-8?
John Deere preferred and used the babbitted rods and mains right up into
the late 40's. Farmers were frugal and would rather adjust the babbitt
shims
than overhaul with inserts.
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> Mike:
> I've long wondered about the A engine and the Ford 8N & 9N tractor
> engines which appear very similar, but use inserts rather than
> babbited bearings. I don't have any specs on these engines though I
> have in the past done major overhauls on a couple of 8Ns. Rumor has
> it that the 8N motor is a modernized variant of the A engine, but
> there are a number of differences. The 8N has two distributer
> locations, neither of which corresponds to the A which has the
> distributer hole in the head. One variant uses a front mounted
> distributer (older), and the other variant has a side mounted
> distributer alongside the block. Both to the best of my knowledge use
> Ford's famous paper thin sleeves known as "tin can sleeves", and both
> have modern bearings and full pressure oiling.
> I've been wondering about these engines as a substitute for the A
> engine in a Piet a they are a superior engine in a number of ways, but
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 6:02 AM
> Subject: [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway]
>
> >Thanx for all the welcomes. I can already tell that this is going to
> be
> >a very supportive group!
> >I am currently researching rebuilding options on the "A" engines. I
> have
> >(2) of them, actually
> >one is a "AA" out of a delivery truck. I have already contacted Ron
> >Kelly and rec'd a std.
> >price /option list. If any of you "A" powered Piet owners have
> >rebuilding advise I would sure
> >like to hear from you. Based on my previous antique tractor
> restoration
> >experience, I feel that
> >a properly done babbitt job should work fine for this application.
> How
> >do you set these motors
> >up to handle the increased thrust load on the "rear" main? Can any of
> >you recommend a source
> >for aluminum heads? What seems to be the preferred mag. setup? I see
> >that MAC'S shows a
> >full flow oil filter conversion for the "A". Anyone have any
> experience
> >with that setup?
> >I know that a lot of these questions can be answered at Brodhead (40
> >miles away), but I would
> >like to do as much research beforehand as possible. Thanx again.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
Dannymac,
I'm interested in the cost of wood to frame-up the Piet. Any info
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bruce
>Dear Group,
>
> Mr. Peters in Calgary has been so helpful passing on many hints
>about construction techniques and short cuts. I decided to use that
>"Structan" brand glue that the Canadians have been using for many years
>now. I beleive there is only one supplier in the States for it. It has a
>30 min. work time, 2 hour clamp time, and a 7 day fully cure time. I
>glued 2 samples of that Australian hoop-pine plywood (5 ply) 1/4". After
>33 hours I pryed the joint (not sheered) and it separated across 3 plys
>splintering at each layer. I couldn't ask for any better than that.
> I have an almost empty table waiting for wood. I bought 200 2"x#12
>flathead (phillip) wood screws and made rib jigs (six of 'em) out of
>them by building a pattern rib out of fir I had laying around and
>screwing them all into the top of the table using the pattern rib as a
>guide. I beleive I can make quick work of this part of the process.
>Big Thanks to everyone.
>
>DannyMac
>
>P.S. Wood was held up by weather, Jean said it was to be shipped Friday.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
> DannyMac:
> What kind of glue is this?? Resourcinol? Epoxy? Urea
> Formaldehyde? Casien? I've never heard of it.
Hello Howard,
It is a thixotropic polyurethane type adhesive. Doesn't thixotropic
just mean that it's a gel? I'm reading the lit that came with it and
the clamp time is 2-4 hours and ready for rigorous testing after 7 days.
It is a single component glue that comes in a caulk gun-type cartridge
and has a shelf life of about one year once opened and kept capped and
refrigerated. I understand its been on the European market for a decade
or so and meets the Canadian cert requirements as well.
It cost about $12.00 a tube and it will probably be a while before I tap
into that considering the generous sample that Sammy sent me from
AmBel Corp in Cottonport La. I haven't heard of anyone building with it
here so I'll test it for you guys if you like. I'll leave word with my
family to give you guys a ring should I collapse out of the sky.
Give Sammy a call and ask him more about it. He is a very nice
fellow but sounds like a salesman on the phone so you can ask Jean
Peters about it at Western Aircraft too. Jean has been around a bit
longer than myself and I trust his advice on new products. He doesn't
strike me as the kind of man that would readily take to new technology
over proven ones if he didn't beleive in it himself.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
bholbrook wrote:
>
> Dannymac,
> I'm interested in the cost of wood to frame-up the Piet. Any info
> would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>
Bruce,
I'm not sure about the prices at Wicks or Aircraft Spruce but you can
call or E-mail them and they will send you a free catalog. I chose
Western Aircraft Supply in Calgary because several people on this site
gave good recomendations on the quality of Jean's product. Since I am
ignorant on choosing quality wood, decided to trust Jean after speaking
to him on the phone. I paid appx $1500.00 for the entire Piet spruce.
Jean has been around a while and has been building planes longer than
I've been breathing (sorry Jean). Anyway, he was able to ship it out
almost immediately and that was a BIG plus since I'm shooting for a
deadline......Osh next year.
At the time I ordered wood from him I did not know that he cuts
everything to specs and even routs the tail feathers and cuts all of the
fuse pieces and marks them. Closest thing to a Piet kit that I've found.
I thought I was simply buying a stack of lumber. I'll know more when it
arrives.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway] |
Follow the conversion plans in the Piet plans as close as possible.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 8:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [Fwd: Intro from Mike Cushway]
>Thanx for all the welcomes. I can already tell that this is going to be
>a very supportive group!
>I am currently researching rebuilding options on the "A" engines. I have
>(2) of them, actually
>one is a "AA" out of a delivery truck. I have already contacted Ron
>Kelly and rec'd a std.
>price /option list. If any of you "A" powered Piet owners have
>rebuilding advise I would sure
>like to hear from you. Based on my previous antique tractor restoration
>experience, I feel that
>a properly done babbitt job should work fine for this application. How
>do you set these motors
>up to handle the increased thrust load on the "rear" main? Can any of
>you recommend a source
>for aluminum heads? What seems to be the preferred mag. setup? I see
>that MAC'S shows a
>full flow oil filter conversion for the "A". Anyone have any experience
>with that setup?
>I know that a lot of these questions can be answered at Brodhead (40
>miles away), but I would
>like to do as much research beforehand as possible. Thanx again.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
We added some construction pictures to Daryll's Pietenpol site.
HREF="http:www.angelfire.com/fl2/DDeets/index.html">http:www.angelfire.com/fl2
/DDeets/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A |
for the skinny on the tractors see
http://www.ytmag.com/fordnclub/specs.htm
Another problem to overcome is the motor is a
structural part of the tractor. the oil pan alone
weighs about a hundred pounds.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duane <Duaner(at)atl.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Conversion |
Where can I find the best info on Corvair engine conversion.
Duane Revennaugh
Where can I find the best info on Corvair engine
conversion.
Duane Revennaugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
Hi Ken, Where on earth is Bieseker? Next weekend , weather permiting I
will attend a poker rally. The following are where one can buy thier
cards: Bonnyville, St.Paul, Vegreville,Lloydminster, and Cold Lake.
Bonnyville is hosting and there will be a $1000.00 cash first prize and
a Head set for seconds. I plan on bringing my jerry can this time! Don't
want a repeat of that last trip. Maybe we can get toghther for thebig
trip to Ohkosh.
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country |
Michael Brusilow wrote:
>
>
> At first, I thought that Wayne's account of his near fatal flight
> was a joke. As of now, no disclaimer has been issued.
>
> Think about it, the pilot admits he was low on fuel, but continues on.
> He arrives at his destination on fumes, busts the traffic pattern &
> the engine fails due to fuel starvation. Fortunately he makes the
> runway, & publishes the incident in a humerous manner.
>
> I for one do not believe that this sort of behavior relfects the
> practices of the majority of Pietenpol flyers.
>
> Mike B, Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
Hi Mike ,
I'sorry for not answering this issue sooner and feel that some response
be in order. I admit that flying low on fuel was not a smart thing to
do. I was not aware of the exact fuel burn or total quantity of my tank
and those are probably irresponsible, however humane nature being such
as it is we all make mistakes now and then. As for the traffic pattern,
I believe that there is a limit as to how far one can stretch it. At
this point it becomes the pilots responsibility to overfly the runway
and remain in the "patern" untill such time as a safe oppertunity
presents itself to land. It was during this extended pattern that I had
concerns about my fuel and overflying the city, so I cut it short but
was cautios not to cut anyone off.
As for my "joking" about it, I think that the facts will always remain
after the fact and humor is a good way to deal with stess. I think
people enjoyed what I wrote but still understood the underlying
implications of the incident, in other words we should be able to laugh
at our selves, learn from our mistakes and go on with life.
It is just this sort of thing that gives us those memmorable moments
by the campfire with friends and family, hands outstreched at converging
angles and recounting what a great feat was accomplished. Talk to a
pionner bush pilot or other history maker and you will know what I mean.
I apologise if I gave you the wrong impression, I only wished to tell
others in my own sort of way. I wish you many happy landing and hope
that one day we meet and chat over one of them fires.
Wayne "no gas" Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
For those interested in some of the polyurethane glues, I have tried two
types. One is a "generic" type from Home Depot, the other is Excel that
I got from Aircraft Spruce. The Excel is a little better flowing and
can be used at lower temperatures, but it is nice that neither requires
mixing. Have run test samples (sanded and unsanded) of spruce to birch
plywood, spruce to spruce and birch ply to birch ply (1/16). In all
cases the wood or plywood failed before the glue joint. I couldn't even
fail my latest samples this weekend, the wood failed in compression
(this is a new batch of spruce from Aircraft Spruce). Not real pleased
with this spruce, grain is marginal and (again) there are some brittle
pieces in my order. All this lack of quality has me thinking I'll go
with aluminum spars when the time comes.
On an epoxy note, I also tested some West Systems epoxy at temp this
weekend. By 200 degrees F it had turned back into a soup that allowed
the pieces to separate with finger pressure. The wood was fine.
Haven't run this test yet on the polyurethanes, that's next weekend.
Hey, only 53 days to Brodhead!
Mike L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country |
Wayne and Kathy wrote:
>
It's now
> 2:43 and I am setting up the Pit for a gorgeous show stage center grand
> arrival and boy ! I did not dissapoint the hungry crowd.
> Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
Wayne, I hope this part is purely literature.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A |
Bill:
I had no intention of using an 8N engine on a piet..... or for
that matter a model A engine on a Piet.
The oil pan really isn't much of a problem as it is not difficult
to manufacture one.... for those of us who weld.
I simply brought up the similarity between the two engines because
I feel that the 8N engine is a vastly superior design, and thought
that perhaps with some appropriate modifications it might serve as
well or better on a Piet, and was wondering if anybody had looked into
using one. The cast oil pan, the heavy flywheel, and the cast front
accessory case probably make up virtually all the weight difference
between the two engines. I would suspect that if the displacement
were about the same it could easily be made to put out just as much
power as the car engine. Engines are often de-rated by carburetion
and camming.
I wanted to mention that someone commented about the babbit
bearings and shims in such a fashion as to suggest that they
necessarily go together. I've worked on various older engines which
had inserts and still used shims.... One that comes to mind is
Herculese, and another I believe was a flat head Studebaker. The
steel backed insert bearings last far longer than babbit bearings, and
are easily replaced.
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 7:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A
>for the skinny on the tractors see
>
>http://www.ytmag.com/fordnclub/specs.htm
>
>Another problem to overcome is the motor is a
>structural part of the tractor. the oil pan alone
>weighs about a hundred pounds.
>
>Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey, all you "Smokers", here is an alternative that I heard about. Their
claim to fame seems to be "persistency", as in the smoke stays and stays and
stays.
http://www.mdw-aviation.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Hey, all you "Smokers", here is an alternative that I heard about. Their
>claim to fame seems to be "persistency", as in the smoke stays and stays and
>stays.
>http://www.mdw-aviation.com
>
>
Warren-Thanks for the info and web site !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Conversion |
Duane,
Have you got an Article (1/4 inch thick by R.G. Huggins??? If not I'll send
you a copy of "The Corvair Experimental Aircraft Engine" Technical Manual
for a couple of bucks for mail. My address is 34 Westhumber Blvd. Toronto
Ontario, M9W 3M6.
That goes for any one else that wants one.
Dom. Bellissimo
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Conversion |
Where can I find the best info on Corvair engine conversion.
Duane Revennaugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Bruce:
I bought the wood kit from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty ($823 USD) and it was
NOT suitable for builing an Aircamper. I don't know where they got their
specs. from, but I had to buy another guys project that had the correct
pieces. All you'll get from AC&S is spare parts and some kindling for $823.
Doug
>From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: progress
>Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 12:02:22 -0500
>
>bholbrook wrote:
> >
> > Dannymac,
> > I'm interested in the cost of wood to frame-up the Piet. Any info
> > would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Bruce
> >
>
>Bruce,
>
>I'm not sure about the prices at Wicks or Aircraft Spruce but you can
>call or E-mail them and they will send you a free catalog. I chose
>Western Aircraft Supply in Calgary because several people on this site
>gave good recomendations on the quality of Jean's product. Since I am
>ignorant on choosing quality wood, decided to trust Jean after speaking
>to him on the phone. I paid appx $1500.00 for the entire Piet spruce.
>Jean has been around a while and has been building planes longer than
>I've been breathing (sorry Jean). Anyway, he was able to ship it out
>almost immediately and that was a BIG plus since I'm shooting for a
>deadline......Osh next year.
> At the time I ordered wood from him I did not know that he cuts
>everything to specs and even routs the tail feathers and cuts all of the
>fuse pieces and marks them. Closest thing to a Piet kit that I've found.
>I thought I was simply buying a stack of lumber. I'll know more when it
>arrives.
>
>Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Conversion |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> Duane,
> Have you got an Article (1/4 inch thick by R.G. Huggins??? If not I'll send
> you a copy of "The Corvair Experimental Aircraft Engine" Technical Manual
> for a couple of bucks for mail. My address is 34 Westhumber Blvd. Toronto
> Ontario, M9W 3M6.
> That goes for any one else that wants one.
> Dom. Bellissimo
Thanks! The check is in the mail.
I'm new here and joined because I'm installing a 'vair in my
homebuilt, and I know that the Pietenpol was the pioneer of the
use of that engine in aircraft. What I'm after is some real time
info on the use of the engine, from people who are actually
using it, or quit using it for one reason or another... pros
and cons, things to do or avoid, etc.
Would there be a website or two with some good photos of the
installation of a 'vair in a Piet?... or even a page or two
dedicated to building and or installing a 'vair for aircraft use?
Thanks!
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Conversion |
Patrick,
Well I'm still experimenting, I guess. I've just rebuilt the engine over the
weekend. The total process took 5 days, I got the cyl. deglazed only. Kept
them stock. However I opened the clearence mor like an aircraft engine. My
automachine shop recommended an extra thous. clearance (to 2.5 thous.). All
pistons however were replaced (forged) The reason I had to rebuild is that I
detonated a piston. Try not to do that. I found my stromberg carb
(NA-S3a1had the set up wrong. The float would pre-maturely shut off the
neddle so it ran very lean. I have the carb. under the engine (check out
Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org). This should act like
a totally different engine now. I'll copy the manual for you to.
Regards,
Dom. Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
List,
Does anyone have Grant Macclaren's current address? I've lost it again.
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Letarte, Patrick (P.)" |
| Subject: | RE: subscription info |
I really need to unsubscribe now, no time to look up on web page. Sorry,
really enjoyed the info, need to get re-subscibed on my personal web page.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 10:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: subscription info
I am still getting a number of subscribe and unsubscribe requests.
Please check out richards page for the automated sub/unsubscribe script.
I use it for all the requests I get.
See:
http://www.aircamper.org/MailingList.cfm
Thanks, and have a great weekend,
Steve Eldredge
________________________________________________________________________________
Wow. Expensive. $12 per gallon. I'll stick with my secret combination.
Here it is.
1 cup diesel fuel
1 Gallon Canopus 13 or 62, whatever you get from your supplier
1 Quart Transmission fluid.
Straight Canoupus works well too, just not as thick white.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Michael D Cuy
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 6:50 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Smokers
>
>
> >Hey, all you "Smokers", here is an alternative that I heard
> about. Their
> >claim to fame seems to be "persistency", as in the smoke
> stays and stays and
> >stays.
> >http://www.mdw-aviation.com
> >
> >
> Warren-Thanks for the info and web site !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Conversion |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> Patrick,
snip
> Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org).
Could you pin it down a little closer for me?
I found this list by snooping around on Richard's fine
site, but I don't recall seeing any 'vair installation
photos there.
Thanks again,
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: more balance |
You could tack weld some electrical conduit (careful it's usually
galvanized) to create a test motor mount. If the CG isn't where
you want it cut out some material or knock together another.
When it's right, do the real thing from your final test
measurements.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC (& part time Reston Va.)
robert hensarling on 06/06/99
11:01:15 AM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more balance
List: Still being a bit concerned about the W & B of my GN-1 (A
tad tail
heavy on paper), I'm considering moving the engine forward about
1". This
seems like it can be done with the existing engine mount, and
using spacers
between the engine mount and the firewall. Only thing necessary
to change
is the length of the engine mount/firewall bolts. All cables,
wiring,
hoses, etc are long enough for the move.
Question: If the planes empty CG (no fuel, but with oil in the
con. 65) is
16.2" right now, how can I calculate where the empty CG will be
if I move
the engine forward 1"? The GN-1 empty weight is 665 lbs, but
taking one
half of this figure and trying to scoot it forward doesn't work.
Another
formula perhaps?
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
It's about 25 miles NorthEast of Calgary. I've never heard of a poker
rally, but anything that involves flying must be fun. Good luck.
I wish I could make it to OSH again this year, but we will be driving to
NF on Friday, July 23, for three weeks. I know, we will be pretty close to
OSH on the way down, but it's just not in the cards for this year. If you
get here before the 23rd, give me a shout at (403)830-4777 and we'll get
together.
Ken.
On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Wayne and Kathy wrote:
> Hi Ken, Where on earth is Bieseker? Next weekend , weather permiting I
> will attend a poker rally. The following are where one can buy thier
> cards: Bonnyville, St.Paul, Vegreville,Lloydminster, and Cold Lake.
> Bonnyville is hosting and there will be a $1000.00 cash first prize and
> a Head set for seconds. I plan on bringing my jerry can this time! Don't
> want a repeat of that last trip. Maybe we can get toghther for thebig
> trip to Ohkosh.
>
> Wayne Tokarz
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | wheel of fortune |
Just a thought::: While blazing through the TV channels with the remote
yesterday, I stopped on a channel showing some dragsters (rails). Some of
them were using wire spoked wheels. Talk about side loads! The front end
of those things go way up when they start out, and they BANG down on the
pavement quite a distance later, and not always in a straight configuration.
The wheels are probably really BIG $$$, but it's another source to look
into. Oh, and another plus, you could land your Piet/GN at 300 mph without
worrying about the bearings.
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pschultz(at)uplogon.com (Paul Schultz) |
| Subject: | Good Woman Wanted... |
Wanted, Good Woman who can build and fly Pietenpol airplanes.
Must own a Pietenpol.
Send picture of Pietenpol Air Camper.
Sincerely,
Paul Schultz
(Sorry - couldn't resist!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wheel of fortune |
Just got my "tyres" mounted to my fancy rims....was told "never bring them
back here for work". I guess they were a #$% to get on as they were 2.5 by
2.5 (inches) with a tube, liner and nut secured nozzel. If I had it to do
over again, I would just do what Will Graf did, front dirt bike wheels with
hub machined for Piet axle and be done with it, brakes an option. I could
produce a melodrama on the story of getting these wheels/tyres done........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheel of fortune
>Just a thought::: While blazing through the TV channels with the remote
>yesterday, I stopped on a channel showing some dragsters (rails). Some of
>them were using wire spoked wheels. Talk about side loads! The front end
>of those things go way up when they start out, and they BANG down on the
>pavement quite a distance later, and not always in a straight
configuration.
>The wheels are probably really BIG $$$, but it's another source to look
>into. Oh, and another plus, you could land your Piet/GN at 300 mph without
>worrying about the bearings.
>
>Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wheel of fortune |
Robert;
This was one of my original thoughts way back but was told these dragster
rims weren't very strong due to their light weight...........however, I
agree that these things take a pounding and keep on ticking on race bikes
and dragsters...............
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 12:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheel of fortune
>Just a thought::: While blazing through the TV channels with the remote
>yesterday, I stopped on a channel showing some dragsters (rails). Some of
>them were using wire spoked wheels. Talk about side loads! The front end
>of those things go way up when they start out, and they BANG down on the
>pavement quite a distance later, and not always in a straight
configuration.
>The wheels are probably really BIG $$$, but it's another source to look
>into. Oh, and another plus, you could land your Piet/GN at 300 mph without
>worrying about the bearings.
>
>Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Good Woman Wanted... |
Wanted EXCELLENT male good bod.,should have diamond mine or equivelent. Send
photo of gems.
Kathi Myers (wife of piet builder)
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schultz
Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 12:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good Woman Wanted...
>Wanted, Good Woman who can build and fly Pietenpol airplanes.
>Must own a Pietenpol.
>Send picture of Pietenpol Air Camper.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul Schultz
>(Sorry - couldn't resist!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
Pat,
I think you click on the photo, click on images, scroll down to my Name,
open the window, click on the picture you want to view.
Is that right Richard??
Domenic
P.S. Richard... have you received the manual yet??
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Conversion |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> Patrick,
snip
> Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org).
Could you pin it down a little closer for me?
I found this list by snooping around on Richard's fine
site, but I don't recall seeing any 'vair installation
photos there.
Thanks again,
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
Got the manual, yes, thanks! It's going to take me a year and a day to
scan and convert it to html, tho... Lots of good stuff there!
> P.S. Richard... have you received the manual yet??
>
> ----------
> From: Patrick Panzera
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Conversion
> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 11:01AM
>
> BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
> >
> > Patrick,
>
> snip
>
> > Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org).
>
> Could you pin it down a little closer for me?
> I found this list by snooping around on Richard's fine
> site, but I don't recall seeing any 'vair installation
> photos there.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Pat
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
You might start by simply scanning it and making page images available. Just a
thought;-)
Richard DeCosta wrote:
> Got the manual, yes, thanks! It's going to take me a year and a day to
> scan and convert it to html, tho... Lots of good stuff there!
>
> > P.S. Richard... have you received the manual yet??
> >
> > ----------
> > From: Patrick Panzera
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Conversion
> > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 11:01AM
> >
> > BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
> > >
> > > Patrick,
> >
> > snip
> >
> > > Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org).
> >
> > Could you pin it down a little closer for me?
> > I found this list by snooping around on Richard's fine
> > site, but I don't recall seeing any 'vair installation
> > photos there.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Pat
> >
>
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Good Woman Wanted... |
Touche!
>From: Earl Myers
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Good Woman Wanted...
>Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 13:16:07 -0400
>
>Wanted EXCELLENT male good bod.,should have diamond mine or equivelent.
>Send
>photo of gems.
>Kathi Myers (wife of piet builder)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Schultz
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 12:58 PM
>Subject: Good Woman Wanted...
>
>
> >Wanted, Good Woman who can build and fly Pietenpol airplanes.
> >Must own a Pietenpol.
> >Send picture of Pietenpol Air Camper.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Paul Schultz
> >(Sorry - couldn't resist!)
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> Pat,
> I think you click on the photo, click on images, scroll down to my Name,
> open the window, click on the picture you want to view.
Great, found it. Had to click on "Multimedia" first, then "Images".
I seem to be having a problem viewing the images. I get
an error message before it's done loading. Is it me, or
are other people having problems too?
Click here:
http://www.aircamper.org/cgi-bin/urlgo.exe?url=%2Facimg%2FDom_AS04.JPG
and tell me if it loads completely for you.
Thanks!
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
Patrick,
You either have too many other resources (programs) being used on your
computer, or your serve has timed you out and decided that you have just had
enough download. Hit the reload button usually works.
Patrick Panzera wrote:
> BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
> >
> > Pat,
> > I think you click on the photo, click on images, scroll down to my Name,
> > open the window, click on the picture you want to view.
>
> Great, found it. Had to click on "Multimedia" first, then "Images".
>
> I seem to be having a problem viewing the images. I get
> an error message before it's done loading. Is it me, or
> are other people having problems too?
>
> Click here:
> http://www.aircamper.org/cgi-bin/urlgo.exe?url=%2Facimg%2FDom_AS04.JPG
> and tell me if it loads completely for you.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A |
The main advantage of the A or for that matter the B engine, is the power
they produce at low rpm. they are large bore and produce good low rpm
torque. This ability to produce torque allows them to swing a large diameter
fairly coarse props. the resultant "thrust disk" is ideal for draggy
airframes.
The second advantage is the length of the output main bearing. (Almost the
same length as the small contintals. A-65 to 0-200) Most of the forces
generated by a propellor are centrifugal. The long bearing provides a good
lever to control the procession that occurs when the aircraft changes
attitude or any other directional changes. Not that our type of craft does
it quickley :-)
The biggest gains in A performance will be found in breathing, cam
condition etc. When Bernie choose the A engine he knew what he was looking
for.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 10:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 8N / 9N / Ford A
>Bill:
> I had no intention of using an 8N engine on a piet..... or for
>that matter a model A engine on a Piet.
> The oil pan really isn't much of a problem as it is not difficult
>to manufacture one.... for those of us who weld.
> I simply brought up the similarity between the two engines because
>I feel that the 8N engine is a vastly superior design>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Conversion |
Dom;pulled the Piet out yesterday,and tied the tail to a tree via a
thrust gauge,2 stock carbs(corvair engine)60 inch 3 blade warpdrive,1st run
static rpm max 2100 and about 250 lbs thrust,adjusted pitch less,then
2700rpm with aprox.300lbs thrust ,less pitch again then 3000rpm static and
aprox.320 lbs thrust,more teaking to follow.Testing was with Esso premiun
auto fuel 92 octane i think,that Vair engine is soooooooooooooo
smooooth,and sounds sweet!! Ignition timming was around 25 degrees,hard to
hold the light in the prop wash etc!
Doug.
> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: FW: Corvair Conversion
> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:47 AM
>
> Patrick,
> Well I'm still experimenting, I guess. I've just rebuilt the engine over
the
> weekend. The total process took 5 days, I got the cyl. deglazed only.
Kept
> them stock. However I opened the clearence mor like an aircraft engine.
My
> automachine shop recommended an extra thous. clearance (to 2.5 thous.).
All
> pistons however were replaced (forged) The reason I had to rebuild is
that I
> detonated a piston. Try not to do that. I found my stromberg carb
> (NA-S3a1had the set up wrong. The float would pre-maturely shut off the
> neddle so it ran very lean. I have the carb. under the engine (check out
> Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org). This should act
like
> a totally different engine now. I'll copy the manual for you to.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dom. Bellissimo
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hurray! Wood is here!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Jean ships nice stuff doesn't he? Hopefully you will
have more time to work on yours than I am finding for
mine.
Dave
>Hurray! Wood is here!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Back on May 15th I think bwm mentioned a Larry Harrison of Bainbridge GA
who had built a poplar wood Piet. Larry, are you online? does anyone
have his snailmail address?
Back on May 15th I think bwm
mentioned a Larry
Harrison of Bainbridge GA who had built a poplar wood Piet. Larry, are
you
online? does anyone have his snailmail address?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
> It's about 25 miles NorthEast of Calgary. I've never heard of a poker
> rally, but anything that involves flying must be fun. Good luck.
>
> I wish I could make it to OSH again this year, but we will be driving to
> NF on Friday, July 23, for three weeks. I know, we will be pretty close to
> OSH on the way down, but it's just not in the cards for this year. If you
> get here before the 23rd, give me a shout at (403)830-4777 and we'll get
> together.
>
> K
You bet I will Ken. Also I would love to see your project, I have a
friend on Vancouver Island who is also building a Cristavia
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Cross Country |
dannymac wrote:
>
> Wayne and Kathy wrote:
> >
>
> It's now
> > 2:43 and I am setting up the Pit for a gorgeous show stage center grand
> > arrival and boy ! I did not dissapoint the hungry crowd.
>
> > Wayne Tokarz (CF-VUU)
>
> Wayne, I hope this part is purely literature.
>
> Dannymac
Of course...
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne and Kathy <ktokarz(at)incentre.net> |
Robert , I deleted your numbers. If you send them to me (
ktokarz(at)incentre.net ) I will tell you how far to move the engine. I
will provide you with all the numbers and how to do it.
Wayne Tokarz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jkearns <jkearns(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grant's address |
Hi:
Grant Macclaren's address is 6364 Franks Road, Byrnes Mill, MO
63051-1103 for snail mail. E-Mail is GMacLaren(at)aol.com Hope this helps
Jim Kearns
>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Grant's address
>Date: Mon, Jun 7, 1999, 7:53 AM
>
>List,
>
>Does anyone have Grant Macclaren's current address? I've lost it again.
>Dom.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Sanders Family wrote:
>
> Back on May 15th I think bwm mentioned a Larry Harrison of Bainbridge
> GA who had built a poplar wood Piet. Larry, are you online? does
> anyone have his snailmail address?
Larry's not on line but I'll get his address and e-mail you.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
His address is on this image:
http://www.aircamper.org/acimg/PoplarPiet.jpg
--- Sanders Family wrote:
> Back on May 15th I think bwm mentioned a Larry Harrison of Bainbridge
> GA who had built a poplar wood Piet. Larry, are you online? does
> anyone have his snailmail address?
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grant's address |
Grant moved some time ago to 7 Crosswinds St. Louis, MO 63132-4303
>Hi:
> Grant Macclaren's address is 6364 Franks Road, Byrnes Mill, MO
>63051-1103 for snail mail. E-Mail is GMacLaren(at)aol.com Hope this
>helps
>
>Jim Kearns
>
>
>----------
>>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Subject: Grant's address
>>Date: Mon, Jun 7, 1999, 7:53 AM
>>
>
>>List,
>>
>>Does anyone have Grant Macclaren's current address? I've lost it
>again.
>>Dom.
>>
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | about to start thinking about starting...... |
I now own a set of plans (which include several mods to appease the UK
authorities). Most people here seem to be using C90s or 0-200s, but I'm
considering using a Subaru - any reasonably positive comments?
I'm also wondering what the GN-1 designation is, as the only reference I
have found to it has been in the AS&S catalogue - nothing that I can see on
the drawings or on the BPA site.
One of the UK approved drawings describes a three-piece demountable wing,
which I may or may not build. I have seen aircraft with cutaway centre
sections and one with a fold-up transparent section aft of the centre
section rear spar - anybody know where I could get my hands on drawings for
these mods?
Leo
Nottinghamshire
England
leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
To Mike Cushway and all,
Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the streamline
tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally, and what
about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the source?
To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out
acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Arizona
> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle industry we
call
> it airfoil tubing)
> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The major
axis
> is 3.125 and
> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it would
work
> for lift struts.
> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
>
> John Greenlee wrote:
>
> > I ain't no engineer but......
> >
> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'll
gain
> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carry
a
> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Y
> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.
> >
> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
> >
> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've never
heard
> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causing
an
> > accident in a Piet.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wayne
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
> > Subject: Streamlined tube
> >
> > >
> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs.
Is
> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like
to
> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut
> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the
other
> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group
opinion
> > >here?
> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual
ignition?
> > >
> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: about to start thinking about starting...... |
Leo:
The GN1 is a clone of the Piet by Grega.... not a model of the
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 6:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: about to start thinking about starting......
>I now own a set of plans (which include several mods to appease the
UK
>authorities). Most people here seem to be using C90s or 0-200s, but
I'm
>considering using a Subaru - any reasonably positive comments?
>
>I'm also wondering what the GN-1 designation is, as the only
reference I
>have found to it has been in the AS&S catalogue - nothing that I can
see on
>the drawings or on the BPA site.
>
>One of the UK approved drawings describes a three-piece demountable
wing,
>which I may or may not build. I have seen aircraft with cutaway
centre
>sections and one with a fold-up transparent section aft of the centre
>section rear spar - anybody know where I could get my hands on
drawings for
>these mods?
>
>Leo
>Nottinghamshire
>England
>
>leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
Mark:
LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will
fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your
existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part
# A2685
LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube
>To Mike Cushway and all,
>
>Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the
streamline
>tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,
and what
>about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the
source?
>
>To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out
>acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, Arizona
>
>
>> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle
industry we
>call
>> it airfoil tubing)
>> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The
major
>axis
>> is 3.125 and
>> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it
would
>work
>> for lift struts.
>> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
>>
>> John Greenlee wrote:
>>
>> > I ain't no engineer but......
>> >
>> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel
you'll
>gain
>> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube
will carry
>a
>> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N
T Y
>> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and
corrosion.
>> >
>> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
>> >
>> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've
never
>heard
>> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and
causing
>an
>> > accident in a Piet.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: wayne
>> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
>> > Subject: Streamlined tube
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts
from cubs.
>Is
>> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd
like
>to
>> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
>> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing
strut
>> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside
the
>other
>> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the
group
>opinion
>> > >here?
>> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual
>ignition?
>> > >
>> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
>> > >
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Piet's and Grega's |
>Leo:
> The GN1 is a clone of the Piet by Grega.... not a model of the
Leo- Both the Piet and GN-1 look the same from a distance and
pretty much fly the same. Both are VERY fun airplanes and are
economical to build, fly, and maintain. Here are the differences though in
a nutshell: (I hope:)
1) Piets are lighter. (generally speaking...depends on the builder of course)
2)Piets have fewer metal fittings.
3)GN-1 wing fittings do NOT allow you to adjust your wing fore and
aft to adjust your center of gravity to account for various engine, fuel
loading considerations. (ie you switch from a Ford to Subaru or
Continental)
4)GN-1's have large gaps in their control surface attachment points.
5)GN-1's used to be a bit faster and cheaper to build because they incorporate
some Cub parts which used to be inexpensive and easy to find when the GN-1
design came out.
6)Both planes are nicknamed 'Air Camper' (Aircamper) thus easily confused.
7)Bernard Pietenpol was not big into advertising his plans so when the GN-1
came
out in trade magazines most folks just thought they were buying
Pietenpol plans.
8)John W. Grega is still around at 80 some years old and living in Bedford,
Ohio.
I have met him at local fly-ins. Unless my info is wrong he has never
built his own design.
9)You'll find that most GN-1's are powered by Continental engines in the 75
to 90 hp range
due to their inherent heavier empty weight.
10) Disclaimer- I was fortunate enough to fly Joe Leonard's GN-1 several
years ago here in
Ohio and just thought it was a pure joy to fly. Then again so are
Pietenpols !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Corvair Conversion |
Hey Doug,
Thats sweet. Thats what I'm looking for. A friend is going to lend me his
Warp Drive for a test. I was going to do that before I popped the # 6 cyl.
The engine is now back together. Worked till 12:00PM Both Fri. Sat. to get
it done. Sun. I did the Valve lashing. Tonight I pull the Pan and look for
melted Alum. ... a little backwards but there was no time to to this before,
since there was too much forward momentum in getting the fix in place with
other people. I should be able to start it by Thurs. just in time for the
week-end airshow here at Brampton Flying Club. I'm using 100 LL instead of
auto fuel. I'm still afraid of detonation. Brian Kenney a fuel engineer has
recommended 100LL because of the high compression. We found a problem with
the carb. , it is now fixed. Have a copy of the carb. manual...send me your
address.
Dom.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Conversion |
Dom;pulled the Piet out yesterday,and tied the tail to a tree via a thrust
gauge,2 stock carbs(corvair engine)60 inch 3 blade warpdrive,1st run static
rpm max 2100 and about 250 lbs thrust,adjusted pitch less,then 2700rpm with
aprox.300lbs thrust ,less pitch again then 3000rpm static and aprox.320 lbs
thrust,more teaking to follow.Testing was with Esso premiun auto fuel 92
octane i think,that Vair engine is soooooooooooooo smooooth,and sounds
sweet!! Ignition timming was around 25 degrees,hard to hold the light in
the prop wash etc!
Doug.
----------
> From: BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: FW: Corvair Conversion
> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:47 AM
>
> Patrick,
> Well I'm still experimenting, I guess. I've just rebuilt the engine over
the
> weekend. The total process took 5 days, I got the cyl. deglazed only. Kept
> them stock. However I opened the clearence mor like an aircraft engine. My
> automachine shop recommended an extra thous. clearance (to 2.5 thous.).
All
> pistons however were replaced (forged) The reason I had to rebuild is that
I
> detonated a piston. Try not to do that. I found my stromberg carb
> (NA-S3a1had the set up wrong. The float would pre-maturely shut off the
> neddle so it ran very lean. I have the carb. under the engine (check out
> Richard's site I have photo's there www.aircamper.org). This should act
like
> a totally different engine now. I'll copy the manual for you to.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dom. Bellissimo
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Grant's address |
Jim,
Thanks a million.
Dom.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grant's address |
Hi:
Grant Macclaren's address is 6364 Franks Road, Byrnes Mill, MO
63051-1103 for snail mail. E-Mail is GMacLaren(at)aol.com Hope this helps
Jim Kearns
----------
>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Grant's address
>Date: Mon, Jun 7, 1999, 7:53 AM
>
>List,
>
>Does anyone have Grant Macclaren's current address? I've lost it again.
>Dom.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet's and Grega's |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> 3)GN-1 wing fittings do NOT allow you to adjust your wing fore and
> aft to adjust your center of gravity to account for various engine, fuel
> loading considerations. (ie you switch from a Ford to Subaru or
> Continental)
Just wondering why Corvair was left off this list. Is it taboo?
Is it not the preferred air cooled engine for the Piet? Why
would someone go through the trouble and expense of installing a
water cooled Sube, when the Piet is proven with the 'vair?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: FW: Corvair Conversion |
Warren Shoun wrote:
>
> Patrick,
> You either have too many other resources (programs) being used on your
> computer, or your serve has timed you out and decided that you have just had
> enough download. Hit the reload button usually works.
What ever the problem is, it's related to my work computer.
I was able to view all the photos at home last night on my family
computer.
Excellent photo documentation. Thanks.
I'll be putting a Corvair page on my website and I would like your
permission to place your photos there. You'll recieve full credit
if you allow me to do so.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet's and Grega's |
>Just wondering why Corvair was left off this list. Is it taboo?
>Is it not the preferred air cooled engine for the Piet? Why
>would someone go through the trouble and expense of installing a
>water cooled Sube, when the Piet is proven with the 'vair?
>
>Pat
Pat- Bernie Pietenpol built 26 Pietenpols in his lifetime and if I'm not
mistaken he powered them with many, many, various engines some of
which I'll try to list below. Some of these listed below Bernie may not have
tried but others have. Chime in if anyone knows of some 'odd ones' we've all
not
heard of.
Velie
Model T (Scout)
Model A
Model B
Corvair
Continental
Subaru
Ford Fiesta
V-8's
LeBlond
Lycoming
Franklin
Funk
Mercedes diesel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Piet's and Grega's |
> -----Original Message-----
> Patrick Panzera
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:25 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Piet's and Grega's
>
>
> Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> > 3)GN-1 wing fittings do NOT allow you to adjust your wing fore and
> > aft to adjust your center of gravity to account for
> various engine, fuel
> > loading considerations. (ie you switch from a Ford to Subaru or
> > Continental)
>
> Just wondering why Corvair was left off this list. Is it taboo?
> Is it not the preferred air cooled engine for the Piet? Why
> would someone go through the trouble and expense of installing a
> water cooled Sube, when the Piet is proven with the 'vair?
>
> Pat
>
Preferred. I guess that "preferred" is as individual as the builder and the
plane. I preffered a Subaru because I picked up a rebuildable core for $20
until I had an offer to purchase an 80 hour A-65 with prop for $1000. Then
the A-65 was preferred. :) Just saw an A-65 0SMOH for $2150 on
www.barnstormers.com. Not sure about accessories, but sure seemed like the
right price. subaru's really haul that piet upwards. We measured the
thrust on a subaru powered Avid and it was over 400lbs of thrust. (Granted 3
blade props don't look exactly period on a piet)
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Piet's and Grega's |
Have photos of;
Vega power
Alum Buick V-8
Two Cont stacked on top of each other driving two props in an X shape.
Can't remember some of the others....but I understand that over time the Pietenpol
has been the test bed for more engine types than any other (so I've heard
told).
Bill Sayre
> ----------
> From: Michael D Cuy[SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 8:36 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Piet's and Grega's
>
>
> >Just wondering why Corvair was left off this list. Is it taboo?
> >Is it not the preferred air cooled engine for the Piet? Why
> >would someone go through the trouble and expense of installing a
> >water cooled Sube, when the Piet is proven with the 'vair?
> >
> >Pat
>
> Pat- Bernie Pietenpol built 26 Pietenpols in his lifetime and if I'm not
> mistaken he powered them with many, many, various engines some of
> which I'll try to list below. Some of these listed below Bernie may not have
> tried but others have. Chime in if anyone knows of some 'odd ones' we've all
not
> heard of.
>
> Velie
> Model T (Scout)
> Model A
> Model B
> Corvair
> Continental
> Subaru
> Ford Fiesta
> V-8's
> LeBlond
> Lycoming
> Franklin
> Funk
> Mercedes diesel
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Piet's and Grega's |
Isn't there someone putting in a OX-8?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Sayre, William G
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:48 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Piet's and Grega's
>
>
> Have photos of;
>
> Vega power
> Alum Buick V-8
> Two Cont stacked on top of each other driving two props in an X shape.
>
> Can't remember some of the others....but I understand that
> over time the Pietenpol has been the test bed for more engine
> types than any other (so I've heard told).
>
> Bill Sayre
> > ----------
> > From: Michael D Cuy[SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 8:36 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Piet's and Grega's
> >
> >
> > >Just wondering why Corvair was left off this list. Is it taboo?
> > >Is it not the preferred air cooled engine for the Piet? Why
> > >would someone go through the trouble and expense of installing a
> > >water cooled Sube, when the Piet is proven with the 'vair?
> > >
> > >Pat
> >
> > Pat- Bernie Pietenpol built 26 Pietenpols in his lifetime
> and if I'm not
> > mistaken he powered them with many, many, various engines some of
> > which I'll try to list below. Some of these listed below
> Bernie may not have
> > tried but others have. Chime in if anyone knows of some
> 'odd ones' we've all not
> > heard of.
> >
> > Velie
> > Model T (Scout)
> > Model A
> > Model B
> > Corvair
> > Continental
> > Subaru
> > Ford Fiesta
> > V-8's
> > LeBlond
> > Lycoming
> > Franklin
> > Funk
> > Mercedes diesel
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
Howard'
Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without shipping, is for four -
ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good
alternative.
Mark
> Mark:
> LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will
> fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your
> existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part
> # A2685
>
> LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC
>
> H.W.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube
>
>
> >To Mike Cushway and all,
> >
> >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the
> streamline
> >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,
> and what
> >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the
> source?
> >
> >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out
> >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?
> >
> >Mark Boynton
> >Gilbert, Arizona
> >
> >
> >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle
> industry we
> >call
> >> it airfoil tubing)
> >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The
> major
> >axis
> >> is 3.125 and
> >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it
> would
> >work
> >> for lift struts.
> >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
> >>
> >> John Greenlee wrote:
> >>
> >> > I ain't no engineer but......
> >> >
> >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel
> you'll
> >gain
> >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube
> will carry
> >a
> >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N
> T Y
> >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and
> corrosion.
> >> >
> >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
> >> >
> >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've
> never
> >heard
> >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and
> causing
> >an
> >> > accident in a Piet.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: wayne
> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
> >> > Subject: Streamlined tube
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts
> from cubs.
> >Is
> >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd
> like
> >to
> >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
> >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing
> strut
> >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside
> the
> >other
> >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the
> group
> >opinion
> >> > >here?
> >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual
> >ignition?
> >> > >
> >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> >> > >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Streamlined tube |
They must think that there is something going on as I ordered the stuff
for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as they were
backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this
morning? ;-)
Ken
On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
> Howard'
>
> Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without shipping, is for four -
> ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good
> alternative.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > Mark:
> > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will
> > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your
> > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part
> > # A2685
> >
> > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC
> >
> > H.W.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube
> >
> >
> > >To Mike Cushway and all,
> > >
> > >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the
> > streamline
> > >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,
> > and what
> > >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the
> > source?
> > >
> > >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out
> > >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?
> > >
> > >Mark Boynton
> > >Gilbert, Arizona
> > >
> > >
> > >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle
> > industry we
> > >call
> > >> it airfoil tubing)
> > >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The
> > major
> > >axis
> > >> is 3.125 and
> > >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it
> > would
> > >work
> > >> for lift struts.
> > >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
> > >>
> > >> John Greenlee wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I ain't no engineer but......
> > >> >
> > >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel
> > you'll
> > >gain
> > >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube
> > will carry
> > >a
> > >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N
> > T Y
> > >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and
> > corrosion.
> > >> >
> > >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.
> > >> >
> > >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've
> > never
> > >heard
> > >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and
> > causing
> > >an
> > >> > accident in a Piet.
> > >> >
> > >> > John
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: wayne
> > >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > >> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:30 PM
> > >> > Subject: Streamlined tube
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts
> > from cubs.
> > >Is
> > >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd
> > like
> > >to
> > >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used
> > >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing
> > strut
> > >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside
> > the
> > >other
> > >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the
> > group
> > >opinion
> > >> > >here?
> > >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual
> > >ignition?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________________
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Streamlined tube |
This is just the plastic shell right? Not structural?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ken
> Beanlands
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:10 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube
>
>
> They must think that there is something going on as I ordered
> the stuff
> for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as
> they were
> backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this
> morning? ;-)
>
> Ken
>
> On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:
>
> > Howard'
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without
> shipping, is for four -
> > ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good
> > alternative.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > > Mark:
> > > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10'
> lengths which will
> > > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material
> fits over your
> > > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per
> foot. LEAF part
> > > # A2685
> > >
> > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC
> > >
> > > H.W.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mboynton(at)excite.com <mboynton(at)excite.com>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:32 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube
> > >
> > >
> > > >To Mike Cushway and all,
> > > >
> > > >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the
> > > streamline
> > > >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced
> internally,
> > > and what
> > > >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and
> what is the
> > > source?
> > > >
> > > >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about
> figuring out
> > > >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?
> > > >
> > > >Mark Boynton
> > > >Gilbert, Arizona
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle
> > > industry we
> > > >call
> > > >> it airfoil tubing)
> > > >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall
> auminum tubing. The
> > > major
> > > >axis
> > > >> is 3.125 and
> > > >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys
> think that it
> > > would
> > > >work
> > > >> for lift struts.
> > > >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.
> > > >>
> > > >> John Greenlee wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > I ain't no engineer but......
> > > >> >
> > > >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel
> > > you'll
> > > >gain
> > > >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube
> > > will carry
> > > >a
> > > >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a
> Cub are P L E N
> > > T Y
> > > >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and
> > > corrosion.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft
> steel was 1020.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small
> tubes. I've
> > > never
> > > >heard
> > > >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from
> negative gs) and
> > > causing
> > > >an
> > > >> > accident in a Piet.
May 31, 1999 - June 08, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-au