Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-aw
June 15, 1999 - June 23, 1999
> Duane W. called me last night and said that my plane was listing in my
> hanger. I went out this morning and found that my drivers side tire was
> flat. I guess I didn't come out the winner against the cactus in price.
> Two holes. Should be back in the air this afternoon.
>
> Not as bad news as doms's blown pistons, but bummer nun the les.
>
> Steve Eldredge
________________________________________________________________________________
I wondered if I ought to be more specific. Thanks for the laught Gary,
Steve Eldredge
Provo, Ut
> -----Original Message-----
> Gary Woodbridge
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 10:56 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Flat tire.
>
>
> So,
>
> I take it your tailwheel tire was flat, that being the
> drivers side tire in
> a tandem aircraft :-}
>
> Gary Woodbridge
>
> steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> > Duane W. called me last night and said that my plane was
> listing in my
> > hanger. I went out this morning and found that my drivers
> side tire was
> > flat. I guess I didn't come out the winner against the
> cactus in price.
> > Two holes. Should be back in the air this afternoon.
> >
> > Not as bad news as doms's blown pistons, but bummer nun the les.
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Should I
You Bet!! Buy it Ron!! You'll be able to sell it for at least that or more
later if you don't like it. If you don't get it, let me know where it is,
and I'll buy it :O)
I may get to go out and do some bug slicing this evening in fact. I think
the happiest I am is when my GN-1 loses contact with the earth!!
Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887
>The other aspects of the plane sound pretty good. It will be
>a fun plane I'm sure......just ask new owner Robert Hensarling
>with his GN-1. He sure has killed lots of bugs since buying that thing !
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Duane,
Can you post the contact info on RFI publishing for the redrive plans?
Thanks.
Warren
Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have posted a few words here on the EA-81 in my air camper. I biult my
> reduction drive from plans I purchased from RFI publishing. I am using a
> single electronic ignition (crane cams XR-700) two 36MM carbs mounted on a
> simple 90 degree manifold madw up from 1 3/4 inch tubing and 1/4 inch plate.
> I am very pleased with this combination. It started first pull and has run
> for 114 hours without a single stutter. I did spend a little time getting
> the jetting right but once it was dialed in it realy runs good and gives me
> great performance. The airplane will be at Broadhead this summer so if any
> of you are interested drop by and get a ride or just take a look.
>
> Duane Woolsey NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <duprey(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Should I (C-85) |
Ron: you bet you can put a C-85 on it. Should use the same mount as the
C-65. If you don't buy it let me know, I will.
Best of luck
John Duprey
> The one I am looking at is a Piet. It has 8" tires and the owner believes
> it weighs a little over 700lbs. The present owner has only flown it 3 or
4
> times since he bought it in 97. He is 80 years old and has a tough time
> getting in and out of her. He has a friend fly it from time to time. I
> talked to his friend, who is a mutual friend of mine come to find out, and
> he says that it flys great. Has no bad habits and cruises at 60mph. I
was
> surprised to hear that it was so slow. I would have thought that it would
> fly in the middle 70s range. There is a mechanic at a near by airport
that
> has been performing all the required maintenance on the plane. I will
> continue to use this gents skills until such time I (we) move (wife is
still
> in the Air Force).
> I have to go back and look it over again. I saw the log books but did not
> have the time to pick through them like I wanted to. It has a new prop
> (don't remember the brand/size) 69hrs on rebuilt engine and carb. Covers
> look great. Cabin looks great. It also has hydrolic brakes in the rear
> seat. 12 gal tank in the wing and an optional 5 gal for the header (I
guess
> for cross country flying). I guess the only difference between this and
an
> ultralight is the weight and engine.
> Since the owner has not flown her much perhaps you can tell me what the
VnE
> is and what is the normal cruise. Can a C-85 be put on the plane to
> increase performance.
> Sorry to be going on and on. I have alot of questions to get answered
> before I invest 10K in such a project. Thanks for your input.
>
> Ron Beasley
> Yorktown, VA
>
>
> >From: Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Re: Should I
> >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:42:17 -0500
> >
> >Ron,
> >
> >I have a C-65 Peit up in Pa. It's a blast to fly. Is the one your
> >looking at a Piet or Grega? What kind of wheels are on it and what does
> >it weigh? Do you have a mechanic that will work on the plane for you? Or
> >one that will sign off work?
> >
> >Craig
> >
> >
>
>
"the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ASH BRACE AT FIREWALL |
The drawings seem to indicate that a fastener is installed through the vertical
spruce brace and the horizontal ash brace at the firewall area (one at each end).
Does anyone know if the the ash brace is suppose to be bolted on before
adding the plywood firewall? If so, what is the bolt size? It seems to me that
the glue would be sufficient, and that if a given force breaks the glue joint
and you are relying on the bolts to hold things together, you're out of luck
anyway. Any comments would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ASH BRACE AT FIREWALL |
Bart-
When we do up a Piet fuselage, the Ash brace is put in after the firewall,
glued, nailed, and AN3 hardware installed as per plans...
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet. |
The corvair conversion group that I mentioned went into how to convert to
dual ignition.. The articles were by a "Waldo" Waterman who built a pusher
aircraft with a home built belt drive reduction specifically for the
corvair engine. He used corvair carbs and tried the 110, 140 and 180 turbo
versions. He tried two methods of dual conversion, the better being a
second distributor driven off the end of the camshaft on the vib damper
side firing plugs placed directly below the current corvair plugs at the
bottom of the head angled in at about 45 degrees. Hope this makes sense.
I'll check my info reference plugs for Domenic.
Wayne Sippola
> From: Patrick Panzera
> wayne wrote:
> >
was seriously corroded, including the head. Thought it would be a good
> > head to practice the dual ignition conversion on if I change my mind
and go
> > that route.
>
> Would you be boldly going were none have gone before,
> or have there been others who have successfully converted
> for dual ignition?
>
> Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet. |
Domenic, the info I have recommends the Champion UL-15Y as being designed
for the corvair. This is an exert from a how to hotrod a corvair book.
The Chevy Corvair shop manual recommends the AC44FF. Of course neither
source was flying corvairs.
Wayne Sippola
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | making more than one rib at a time |
DANNYMAC,
than one rib jig. I made ribs and false ribs for a Bi-plane from two
different jigs made from two factory supplied prints. When half way
done with ribs , by matching the false to the main ribs, found they were
quite different. Enough so that when put on a smooth wing, they would
have looked like crap. I had to remake the false ribs on the main rib
jig. My advice is to lay the two ribs side by side and make sure they
match exactly.
I knew a guy, who has built more than one plane, whose almost
completed Baby Ace wing was damaged by a hanger roof collapse. He said
that since he had discarded the rib jig, he couldn't make another one to
rebuild one wing , and have the plane fly right. So he wound up giving
the project to the local EAA.
I'm no expert, only passing along what I've seen along the way.
walt
DANNYMAC,
By reading some of your
last notes,
it seems that you are using more than one rib jig. I made ribs and
false
ribs for a Bi-plane from two different jigs made from two factory
supplied
prints. When half way done with ribs , by matching the false to
the main
ribs, found they were quite different. Enough so that when put on a
smooth wing,
they would have looked like crap. I had to remake the false ribs
on the
main rib jig. My advice is to lay the two ribs side by side and
make sure
they match exactly.
I knew a guy, who
has built
more than one plane, whose almost completed Baby Ace wing was damaged by
a
hanger roof collapse. He said that since he had discarded the rib
jig, he
couldn't make another one to rebuild one wing , and have the plane fly
right. So he wound up giving the project to the local
EAA.
I'm no
expert, only
passing along what I've seen along the way.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Hmm lets see now the driver sits in the back hole....so the flat tyre is
back there some where......;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 10:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flat tire.
>
>Duane W. called me last night and said that my plane was listing in my
>hanger. I went out this morning and found that my drivers side tire was
>flat. I guess I didn't come out the winner against the cactus in price.
>Two holes. Should be back in the air this afternoon.
>
>Not as bad news as doms's blown pistons, but bummer nun the les.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flat tire - driver or passenger side? |
The only confusion might be with our friends across the "pond"! A friend
of mine always used that way of describing stuff -- of course he also
refered to human vs metric measurements! ;-)
Mike C. in PP/KS
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Flat tire.
> Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 11:28 AM
>
>
> Duane W. called me last night and said that my plane was listing in my
> hanger. I went out this morning and found that my drivers side tire was
> flat. I guess I didn't come out the winner against the cactus in price.
> Two holes. Should be back in the air this afternoon.
>
> Not as bad news as doms's blown pistons, but bummer nun the les.
>
> Steve Eldredge
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead Blues |
Do what I did. Fire the boss and hire yourself. Then you can take vacation
whenever you want.......
Being self-employed you only work 1/2 days..... and you get to pick which 12
hours it is!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead Blues
>Well It looks like the Boss won't give me the time off to go to
>Broadhead. I am so depressed! I have been realy looking foward to
>meeting all of you guys, and Seeing your planes. Wish I could be there
>with all of you. Well I will keep my fingers crossed for next year.
>
>John Duprey
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of wheels? |
OK, as for all the questions about my wheels....
I had a local machine shop in the W.Falls, TX area machine the hubs.
Actually I made the two disks and drilled them with my own blacksmith
methods, and the machine shop welded them up, trued them, and fitted the
bushings, etc. They are made to the Henderson/Pavliga pattern.
As for weight of the air, I'm not sure. They are filled with North Texas
air which though lighter than Louisiana air is still heavier than Colorado
air.
The tires.... Now y'all sit down and take notes, this is a very hi-tech
procedure, not to be attempted by those who do not understand such things.
I took a carefully calibrated removal tool commonly referred to by its
vulgar name: the utility knife. Each knob was carefully excised by
skillful manipulation of this tool. Once all the knobs were removed, the
tire was machined smooth with a precision rotating sanding disk equipped
with 40 grit sandpaper and mounted on a common hand drill. I recommend a
dust mask -- the black snot is not a sight for squemish individuals.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Weight of wheels?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 9:41 AM
>Subject: Re: Weight of wheels?
>
>John, did you machine your own hub? If so, do you recall the measurments
of
>it?
>Robert Hensarling
>http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
>>Walt,
>>
>>>From the recesses of my memory....
>>
>>My 21" aircraft wheels fabricated from wide 4130 hub, aftermarket Harley
>>Davidson rims and spokes, knobby tire smoothed out, and air weighed 19 lbs
>>each. With fabric cover and paint, I'm sure its a little more.
>>
>>John
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 7:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: Weight of wheels?
>>
>>
>>>John, and list,
>>>Weighed my wheels tonight. Each one, without tire or tube or brakes,
>>weigh
>>>in at 8 lbs apiece.
>>>walt
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: John Fay <jefay(at)yahoo.com>
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 5:52 PM
>>>Subject: Weight of wheels?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>List, (whole list, not just Mike)
>>>>
>>>>My partner Dave and I bought two sets of 19" mag wheels
>>>>last night at a salvage yard. We are curious how they
>>>>compare in weight to a spoked wheel. Does anyone know
>>>>how much your completed, spoked wheel weighed (preferably
>>>>without tire or brakes). We'll be weighing ours tonight.
>>>>Dave still has his baby scales. I'll let you know what
>>>>ours came out to.
>>>>
>>>>John in Peoria
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Ron,
All the advice you have gotten so far is valid and sound.
I would expect close to 75 mph cruise with an A65 turning
2150 rpm. A Pietenpol should cruise slightly faster than a
Piper J-3 with the Continental A65. A lot depends on the
propeller being used. I have flown four different Piets with
A65 engines using the following propellers:
Sensenich 72CK42 and 72CK44; Flottorp 72A46 and 72A48;
Colin Walker 72/43; Sensenich 74FK43; Lewis70/43, and a
homebrew one we made (72/43). All were wooden propellers
and the best all-around performance was obtained from the
Sensenich 72CK42, the Flottorp 72A48, the Colin Walker and
our homebrew prop. Our elevation is approximately 2400 feet
above sea level, so you may want to take that into account when
choosing a propeller. For best results, you should be able to get
not less than 2150 rpm static, no wind, and cruise at 2150 rpm.
You should be able to get the rated rpm of 2300 in level flight at
full throttle. If you can achieve these numbers, the compromise
one is faced with when using fixed-pitch propellers is about as
good as it gets. The Pietenpol is a "draggy" airplane and will not
go very fast in any case; hence the propeller will not unload as much
as it will with a cleaner airplane using the same engine(eg. a Lus-
combe 8A which has static rpm limits down around 1900 rpm, yet
cruises close to 100 mph at about 2150 rpm).
I flew my Piet for about 115 hrs. with an A65 and switched to a C85
which improved the climb and provided some reserve power. I have
tried all of the above propellers with the C85 with good results, except
for the Sensenich 74FK43 which loads the engine too much for it to
develop its rated power. With the Colin Walker presently installed, it
cruises at about 85 mph at 2300 rpm. So there is a precedent for using
a C85 in a Pietenpol; in fact, quite a few have them.
I'll not reiterate what others have suggested, but only suggest that you
check the propeller situation with that airplane and see if an incorrect
propeller is installed. A check of static revs. would be a good indicator,
provided, of course, the engine is "up to snuff".
Cheers,
Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Piet. |
Dom,
For what it's worth, my copy of William Wynnes Corvair manual says "Use
only AC44F plugs. The 44FF was the original plug for the Corvair, but they
are no longer made. The 44F is slightly shorter. If this plug is not right
for your conditions, run a colder AC plug. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use plugs
such as Bosch, ND,or any other brand.
The plug that Bosch lists for the Corvair in their catalog is 3/16" TOO
LONG". Don't know if means anything to your particular circumstance.
>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Piet.
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:47:00 -0400
>
>Nah I won't give up. I took the left bank off last night. I was a piston
>melt down along the edge. It happened where I moved this odd-ball spark
>plug. I now suspect it is a hot plug. Brian tried to find the spec for it
>but found no reference. I'm in the process of ordering a new piston from
>Clark's. I also think it is still running too lean. Brian can modify the
>carb for me. I wonder how much power I would loose if I derated the
>compression ? Just got off the phone with Brian he calculated the
>compression at 8.7 with is good, I could then use auto fuel in a pinch.
>
> Peter as you know is selling his Piet. For $13.K Canadian with an O-200
>Continental. By the end of July I will have access to an O-235 for $5.K
>with
>only 100 Hrs. after a Major. I'm seriously thinking about it. That cheap
>with the U.S Dollar and it's a good performer.
>
>My oil temp. was only 170 degrees before the meltdown( the temp sensor is
>in
>the oil pan which is not indicative of the real temp. , probably closer to
>200 Degrees) then everything happened very fast. I was lucky to get back
>to
>the airport. I hate filling out paperwork for the TSB. I wonder if my heads
>are getting too hot, I'll have to install a cyl. head temp gage. Could it
>be
>my pressure cowl is not working and I should return thte original fan. I
>hate to do that since I would loose my starter in the process as well as
>the
>alternator. Why would the cooling work for for aircraft engines and not the
>corvair. I do have a gap I need to close with rubber. I won't push anymore
>I'm almost there, too bad it has to be by trial and error.
>
>You will be missed if you don't come. See in Brussels...it's only once a
>year and it's the 70th. I've made 24 special anniv. mugs with my airplane
>on
>it. I'll be bringing them to Brussels.
> ----------
>From: Thomas E Bowdler
>To: Bellissimo.Dominic(at)littonlsl.com
>Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Piet.
>Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 10:52AM
>
>Dom!
> Sorry about your latest "trial and tribulation". You have more
>desire than I do as you keep at it. I have all but stopped construction,
>of course been busy too. Earl is trying to talk me into buying a Piet so
>I can learn to fly it well, fly to WI for the 70th and then finish mine.
>
> Plans are still incomplete for this weekend. We still have lots of
>things to accomplish in prep for our boys' Eagle Scout ceremony next
>Friday so may have to stay home.
> I'd like to be in Brussels among Piet friends so we'll see.
> Thanks for forwarding the message to me personally as I have
>unsubscribed the Piet list. I just couldn't take what some are proposing
>to do to my favorite little plane. Aluminum spars, spliced longerons,
>plywood ribs...just too much for me. The "Martin Fairwind" was the last
>straw. I sent some personal replies to Dannymack (whoever he is) and he
>still persists in changing everything and still expects to fly it to OSH
>next year. More power to him if he can pull it off but I won't be part
>of it.
>Have fun, and don't give up!
>Tom
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
As with any homebuilt purchase, the workmanship of the builder is the most
important item. When looking at a Piet, the condition of the wood, glue joints
and fabric are important considerations. Empty weight is also important since
the lighter the airplane is the better the performance will be. Most builders
seem to overbuild Piet's and as a result they have an airplane that won't
perform. Check to see how close to the plans the airplane was built and the
quality of the materials. I looked at a Piet several years ago with the intent
to purchase it. The plywood used was paneling from the local building center.
You don't have to buy the first airplane that comes along.
If you are unsure of what you are looking at, find another Piet builder to look
with you. If you can't find a Piet builder, find an A&P with experiance in wood
to look at the airplane. In short get an unbiased opinion. A good prepurchase
inspection can save you a lot down the road. Many people get emotional over
aircraft purchases. DON"T. It's the best way to buy an airplane that you really
didn't want and end up with a lot of headaches. Look at the airplane being
offered, determine what expenses you will have to bring it up to your standards,
determine what you want to have invested in that type airplane, do the math and
make an offer.
Good Luck.
David
Ron Beasley wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> I hate to be a pest but I asked for some advise a week ago and I only heard
> from one person. Here is my delima. I can purchase a 93 Piet with a Cont
> 65-8 (with 69hrs smoh). The gent wants 10.5K for it and it looks real good.
> I will go for a flight in a couple weeks or so to see for my self what it
> is like. The owner says it will do 60mph in level flight. I am not
> familiar with the plane. I know I like the way it looks and its slow speed
> performance. Does this seem like a good buy. What should I be looking for
> when I eye ball the plane. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ron Beasley
> Yorktown, VA
>
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead Blues |
Amen....
I did this very same thing except I picked a new job where I was REQUIRED to
go to Oshkosh, Broadhead, Sun'n'Fun....
And as far as working for myself..... Sometimes I work the first and
second half. But it's worth it when like yesterday my
10 year old son heard the local crop duster hitting the fields. Him and I
grabbed a couple of cokes and went down and sit in the grass on a hill and
watched him fly for two hours.
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broadhead Blues
>Do what I did. Fire the boss and hire yourself. Then you can take
vacation
>whenever you want.......
>
>Being self-employed you only work 1/2 days..... and you get to pick which
12
>hours it is!
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:32 AM
>Subject: Broadhead Blues
>
>
>>Well It looks like the Boss won't give me the time off to go to
>>Broadhead. I am so depressed! I have been realy looking foward to
>>meeting all of you guys, and Seeing your planes. Wish I could be there
>>with all of you. Well I will keep my fingers crossed for next year.
>>
>>John Duprey
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Corvair Piet. |
This would actually raise your compression and could cause early detonation.
I had something similar happen on a Mitsubishi engine in a car. I bought my
teenage son a car..... Apparently it had lost a timing belt its past.
And blew a head gasket on us. After tearing the engine apart we found out
it had been rebuilt before. They machined off the head AND put spark plugs
that were 3/16" to long back in. This raise the compression enough that
pre-ignition ate up the pistons and head. So now a head gasket won't hold
and I'm looking for a new head....
My situation is more extreme but you might be running lean and have higher
compression. This would lead to early ignition of the fuel I think.
I also read somewhere that spark plugs that extend to far into a cylinder
will run 'hot'. The tip of the plug will not dissipate heat into the head
properly and can also cause early ignition. In affect it is acting like a
glow plug in a diesel.
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FW: Corvair Piet.
>
>Dom,
>For what it's worth, my copy of William Wynnes Corvair manual says "Use
>only AC44F plugs. The 44FF was the original plug for the Corvair, but they
>are no longer made. The 44F is slightly shorter. If this plug is not
right
>for your conditions, run a colder AC plug. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use
plugs
>such as Bosch, ND,or any other brand.
>The plug that Bosch lists for the Corvair in their catalog is 3/16" TOO
>LONG". Don't know if means anything to your particular circumstance.
>
>
>>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Piet.
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:47:00 -0400
>>
>>Nah I won't give up. I took the left bank off last night. I was a piston
>>melt down along the edge. It happened where I moved this odd-ball spark
>>plug. I now suspect it is a hot plug. Brian tried to find the spec for it
>>but found no reference. I'm in the process of ordering a new piston from
>>Clark's. I also think it is still running too lean. Brian can modify the
>>carb for me. I wonder how much power I would loose if I derated the
>>compression ? Just got off the phone with Brian he calculated the
>>compression at 8.7 with is good, I could then use auto fuel in a pinch.
>>
>> Peter as you know is selling his Piet. For $13.K Canadian with an O-200
>>Continental. By the end of July I will have access to an O-235 for $5.K
>>with
>>only 100 Hrs. after a Major. I'm seriously thinking about it. That cheap
>>with the U.S Dollar and it's a good performer.
>>
>>My oil temp. was only 170 degrees before the meltdown( the temp sensor is
>>in
>>the oil pan which is not indicative of the real temp. , probably closer to
>>200 Degrees) then everything happened very fast. I was lucky to get back
>>to
>>the airport. I hate filling out paperwork for the TSB. I wonder if my
heads
>>are getting too hot, I'll have to install a cyl. head temp gage. Could it
>>be
>>my pressure cowl is not working and I should return thte original fan. I
>>hate to do that since I would loose my starter in the process as well as
>>the
>>alternator. Why would the cooling work for for aircraft engines and not
the
>>corvair. I do have a gap I need to close with rubber. I won't push
anymore
>>I'm almost there, too bad it has to be by trial and error.
>>
>>You will be missed if you don't come. See in Brussels...it's only once a
>>year and it's the 70th. I've made 24 special anniv. mugs with my airplane
>>on
>>it. I'll be bringing them to Brussels.
>> ----------
>>From: Thomas E Bowdler
>>To: Bellissimo.Dominic(at)littonlsl.com
>>Subject: Re: FW: Corvair Piet.
>>Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 10:52AM
>>
>>Dom!
>> Sorry about your latest "trial and tribulation". You have more
>>desire than I do as you keep at it. I have all but stopped construction,
>>of course been busy too. Earl is trying to talk me into buying a Piet so
>>I can learn to fly it well, fly to WI for the 70th and then finish mine.
>>
>> Plans are still incomplete for this weekend. We still have lots of
>>things to accomplish in prep for our boys' Eagle Scout ceremony next
>>Friday so may have to stay home.
>> I'd like to be in Brussels among Piet friends so we'll see.
>> Thanks for forwarding the message to me personally as I have
>>unsubscribed the Piet list. I just couldn't take what some are proposing
>>to do to my favorite little plane. Aluminum spars, spliced longerons,
>>plywood ribs...just too much for me. The "Martin Fairwind" was the last
>>straw. I sent some personal replies to Dannymack (whoever he is) and he
>>still persists in changing everything and still expects to fly it to OSH
>>next year. More power to him if he can pull it off but I won't be part
>>of it.
>>Have fun, and don't give up!
>>Tom
>
>
>Larry Ragan
>Jacksonville, Fl.
>lragan(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: ASH BRACE AT FIREWALL |
Thanks for the information. My plans only show a fastener hole at each end of
the ash brace where it ties into the vertical spruce fuselage side strut. However,
there are no words which say install bolt here. I'm looking at the fuselage
section of the plans I got from Don Pietenpol. Thanks again, Bart
> ----------
> From: Replicraft(at)aol.com[SMTP:Replicraft(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 2:35 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: ASH BRACE AT FIREWALL
>
> Bart-
> When we do up a Piet fuselage, the Ash brace is put in after the firewall,
> glued, nailed, and AN3 hardware installed as per plans...
>
> Steve
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Tomblin <tombling(at)MercyShips.ORG> |
Dave
My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the Piet
group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started WWIII in
the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
family and I will be
traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
I've just about
convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper) would
be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an air
frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be passing
through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
Thursday and
Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
I've been thinking of
Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to see
how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through I'm
wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort engine
up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would need
a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not perform
well
Gene Tomblin
Wana- be Piet builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: shaving the aileron |
Dave,
I am in Springdale,AR sometimes (family reunion end of this month) and I make
it over to
Batesville,AR everyonce in awhile. Where is Aurora Airport?
Gary
David Atnip wrote:
> I keep my Piet at the Aurora Airport..Where in N.W. Arkansas do you visit?
>
> Gary Woodbridge wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Where in S.W. Missouri do you live? I sometimes make it over to N.W.
> > Arkansas in my Maule and
> > would like to go for a ride in a Piet.
> >
> > Gary Woodbridge
> >
> > David Atnip wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Russell, Hope your Piet is coming along. For the rest of the
> > > discussion group. I have been setting back and reading all your comments
> > > and enjoying. I live in S.W Missouri and finished building my Piet in
> > > 96. I now have almost 100 hours on it . It is built to Piet plans,
> > > except I removed the rudder bar and installed rudder pedals, which i
> > > really like. I have a Cont. 0-200 also installed. I would like to hear
> > > from you all on how your (flying Piets) handle in turbulent air? my
> > > experience in Light planes is small. I had about 12 hours in a cub to
> > > get my tailwheel endorsement. In smooth air it flies like a dream.
> > > Anyway your comments would be appreciated.. Dave
> > >
> > > kyle ray wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey group, would anyone know if it would be a
> > > > good ideal to double the capstrip on the aileron
> > > > directly aft the hinge crevise, (bottom)sand off
> > > > or cut out the section that blunts out into the airstream
> > > > when the aileron is in the most downward position?
> > > > By letting the aileron droop down and marking
> > > > a line then cutting out excess material seems
> > > > that it would stop some adverse yaw? yaw!
> > > >
> > > > 1>would doing this affect the airfoil in level flight?
> > > > 2>would it be worth the trouble?
> > > > 3.what would be any draw backs?
> > > > hey David and Lenny!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
Wherethaheckis Van TX? If you come anywhere near Wichita Falls, come visit.
I'm in Bowie 43 miles from WF on US 287 (toward Cowtown). My ship is 90%
done, 90% to go.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Tomblin <tombling(at)MercyShips.ORG>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Where in SW MO
>Dave
>
>My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the Piet
>group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started WWIII in
>
>the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
>family and I will be
>traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
>I've just about
>convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper) would
>be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
>picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an air
>frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be passing
>through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
>Thursday and
>Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
> I've been thinking of
>Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to see
>how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through I'm
>wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
>plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort engine
>up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would need
>a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
>escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not perform
>well
>
>Gene Tomblin
>
>Wana- be Piet builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet. |
wayne wrote:
>
>
> The corvair conversion group that I mentioned went into how to convert to
> dual ignition.. The articles were by a "Waldo" Waterman who built a pusher
> aircraft with a home built belt drive reduction specifically for the
> corvair engine. He used corvair carbs and tried the 110, 140 and 180 turbo
> versions. He tried two methods of dual conversion, the better being a
> second distributor driven off the end of the camshaft on the vib damper
> side firing plugs placed directly below the current corvair plugs at the
> bottom of the head angled in at about 45 degrees. Hope this makes sense.
How can I get a copy of these writings?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Walter Micron engines |
I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which are
being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to demand. The
Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
engine which has been in production for many years..... I don't know
the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one last Walter
Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $ 6900.00........
A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation engine.
The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which range from 120
to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also available in a 6
cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a 120
HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get about 18% off
which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very competetive
considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your face,
but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a reasonable
choice.
Thought this information might be of interest to somebody... ;-)
H.W.
WALTER MIKRON III AE
TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio 6:1
Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT, feathering-1.6 m dia
Performance (HP/RPM)
* Take-off 65/2600
* Max. Continuous 65/2600
* Max. Cruise 47/2350
Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
* Cruise 4.23/2350
* Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
TBO 1200 Hrs
Main Dimensions
TECHNICAL
SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
Displacement
(Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
Performance (HP/RPM)
*Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
*Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
Fuel Consumption
(US Gal./HR)
*Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
Recomended Fuel
(Oct.) 78 -
100 LL 78 -
100 LL 78 -
100 LL 78 -
100 LL
Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
Main Dimensions
T = Center of Gravity
MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
AR "PUSHER" configuration
B Increased take-off power
+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
While we're talking about Polish engines, there are also the new PZM
Franklin engines at $7900 USD for a 120 HP engine. You would need to add a
starter, ~$300 USD, altenator (automotive) ~150 USD, mags ~$1200 USD and
carb ~700 USD. So, for approximately $10,350 USD you can get a new engine
that will fit on a Cont. mount. You could get it for even less if you can
scare up a pair of mags (slick) and a carb (MS-3SPA). I'm getting a 150 hp
version for the Christavia. It's a fresh, rebuilt, first run engine and
should be here in Aug. Being a rebuilt, it was only $6500 USD and includes
a starter.
I was looking at the LOM engine this weekend on the Zlin 142. Nice engine
and the owners are quite happy with it. Keep in mind that it's designed to
run as an INVERTED in-line. Advantage, better prop clearance.
Disadvantage, odd looking Piet ;-)
Ken
On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which are
> being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
> Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
> describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
> Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to demand. The
> Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
> engine which has been in production for many years..... I don't know
> the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one last Walter
> Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $ 6900.00........
> A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
> conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation engine.
> The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
> fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which range from 120
> to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also available in a 6
> cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a 120
> HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get about 18% off
> which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very competetive
> considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
> suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
> engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your face,
> but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a reasonable
> choice.
> Thought this information might be of interest to somebody... ;-)
> H.W.
>
>
> WALTER MIKRON III AE
> TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
> Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
> Compression Ratio 6:1
> Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
> Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
> Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
> Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
> Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
> Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
> Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
> Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT, feathering-1.6 m dia
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> * Take-off 65/2600
> * Max. Continuous 65/2600
> * Max. Cruise 47/2350
> Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
> * Cruise 4.23/2350
> * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
> TBO 1200 Hrs
> Main Dimensions
>
>
>
>
> TECHNICAL
> SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
> HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
> No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
> Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
> Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
> Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
> Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
> Displacement
> (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
> Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
> Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
> *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
> Fuel Consumption
> (US Gal./HR)
> *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
> Recomended Fuel
> (Oct.) 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL
> Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
> TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
> Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
>
> Main Dimensions
> T = Center of Gravity
>
> MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
> M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
> DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
> AR "PUSHER" configuration
> B Increased take-off power
> +
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Tomblin <tombling(at)MercyShips.ORG> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
John Greenlee wrote:
> Wherethaheckis Van TX? If you come anywhere near Wichita Falls, come visit.
> I'm in Bowie 43 miles from WF on US 287 (toward Cowtown). My ship is 90%
> done, 90% to go.
>
Van Texas is 80 miles East of Dallas on I 20. Or 30 Miles West of Tyler. Or 15
miles East of Canton TX(home of 1st monday One Big Flee market)Population 1854
when we are home 1850 otherwise.
I'd like to visit , John . Thank you for the invite . When I get back from
the In laws,
I'll contact you to set a date and time somtime after the 24th of June
Gene.
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Tomblin <tombling(at)MercyShips.ORG>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 9:23 AM
> Subject: Where in SW MO
>
> >Dave
> >
> >My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the Piet
> >group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started WWIII in
> >
> >the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
> >family and I will be
> >traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
> >I've just about
> >convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper) would
> >be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
> >picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an air
> >frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be passing
> >through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
> >Thursday and
> >Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
> > I've been thinking of
> >Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to see
> >how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through I'm
> >wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
> >plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort engine
> >up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would need
> >a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
> >escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not perform
> >well
> >
> >Gene Tomblin
> >
> >Wana- be Piet builder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
Gene,
I don't have a true PIET, but a GN-1 you can look at
while traveling through the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
It is now hangered at a grass strip just north of Waxahachie,
Texas. It was built in 1985 and is powered by an A-80 and
has Cub gear. I did not build the plane, but have pictures and
notes of its construction.
If you want to call....I am available anytime...(214) 905-9299.
Good luck...
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
>Dave
>
>My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the Piet
>group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started WWIII in
>
>the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
>family and I will be
>traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
>I've just about
>convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper) would
>be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
>picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an air
>frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be passing
>through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
>Thursday and
>Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
> I've been thinking of
>Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to see
>how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through I'm
>wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
>plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort engine
>up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would need
>a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
>escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not perform
>well
>
>Gene Tomblin
>
>Wana- be Piet builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Interesting!
Remember that each one will take off, but one may land better than the
other. One thing for sure is that if it takes off, you are guaranteed to
land. $10,000 seems inexpensive to me ($can. He may be letting it go at
a discounted labour rate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Walter Micron engines |
I think that would be the coolest engined piet on the planet! I would love
to cowl that baby. A LOM could be fully cowled with the air inlet on the
bottom. Oh the dream...
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ken
> Beanlands
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:06 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Walter Micron engines
>
>
> While we're talking about Polish engines, there are also the new PZM
> Franklin engines at $7900 USD for a 120 HP engine. You would
> need to add a
> starter, ~$300 USD, altenator (automotive) ~150 USD, mags
> ~$1200 USD and
> carb ~700 USD. So, for approximately $10,350 USD you can get
> a new engine
> that will fit on a Cont. mount. You could get it for even
> less if you can
> scare up a pair of mags (slick) and a carb (MS-3SPA). I'm
> getting a 150 hp
> version for the Christavia. It's a fresh, rebuilt, first run
> engine and
> should be here in Aug. Being a rebuilt, it was only $6500 USD
> and includes
> a starter.
>
> I was looking at the LOM engine this weekend on the Zlin 142.
> Nice engine
> and the owners are quite happy with it. Keep in mind that
> it's designed to
> run as an INVERTED in-line. Advantage, better prop clearance.
> Disadvantage, odd looking Piet ;-)
>
> Ken
>
> On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
> > I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which are
> > being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
> > Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
> > describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
> > Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to
> demand. The
> > Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
> > engine which has been in production for many years..... I
> don't know
> > the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one
> last Walter
> > Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $
> 6900.00........
> > A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
> > conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation engine.
> > The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
> > fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which
> range from 120
> > to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also
> available in a 6
> > cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a 120
> > HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get
> about 18% off
> > which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very
> competetive
> > considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
> > suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
> > engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your face,
> > but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a
> reasonable
> > choice.
> > Thought this information might be of interest to
> somebody... ;-)
> > H.W.
> >
> >
> > WALTER MIKRON III AE
> > TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
> > Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
> > Compression Ratio 6:1
> > Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
> > Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
> > Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
> > Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
> > Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
> > Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
> > Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
> > Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT,
> feathering-1.6 m dia
> > Performance (HP/RPM)
> > * Take-off 65/2600
> > * Max. Continuous 65/2600
> > * Max. Cruise 47/2350
> > Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
> > * Cruise 4.23/2350
> > * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
> > TBO 1200 Hrs
> > Main Dimensions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > TECHNICAL
> > SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
> > HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
> > No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
> > Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
> > Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
> > Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
> > Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
> > Displacement
> > (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
> > Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
> > Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
> > Performance (HP/RPM)
> > *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
> > *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
> > Fuel Consumption
> > (US Gal./HR)
> > *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
> > Recomended Fuel
> > (Oct.) 78 -
> > 100 LL 78 -
> > 100 LL 78 -
> > 100 LL 78 -
> > 100 LL
> > Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
> > TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
> > Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
> >
> > Main Dimensions
> > T = Center of Gravity
> >
> > MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
> > M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
> > DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
> > AR "PUSHER" configuration
> > B Increased take-off power
> > +
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
How much does the GN-1 weigh before attaching the engine? How many of
yall are using soob direct drive engines too.
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
Here we go again! Michael, you appear to be infected with the Happy99
virus. Take a look at the message that got sent with your email
account.
For anyone else thinking of running Happy99.exe: DONT! DELETE IT! ITS A
VIRUS.
Richard
--- Michael King wrote:
> Gene,
>
> I don't have a true PIET, but a GN-1 you can look at
> while traveling through the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
>
> It is now hangered at a grass strip just north of Waxahachie,
> Texas. It was built in 1985 and is powered by an A-80 and
> has Cub gear. I did not build the plane, but have pictures and
> notes of its construction.
>
> If you want to call....I am available anytime...(214) 905-9299.
>
> Good luck...
>
> Mike King
> GN-1
> 77MK
> Dallas
>
>
>
> >Dave
> >
> >My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the
> Piet
> >group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started
> WWIII in
> >
> >the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
> >family and I will be
> >traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
> >I've just about
> >convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper)
> would
> >be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
> >picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an
> air
> >frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be
> passing
> >through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
> >Thursday and
> >Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
> > I've been thinking of
> >Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to
> see
> >how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through
> I'm
> >wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
> >plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort
> engine
> >up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would
> need
> >a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
> >escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not
> perform
> >well
> >
> >Gene Tomblin
> >
> >Wana- be Piet builder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
WARNING!! WARNING!!
I JUST TRIED TO DOWNLOAD THE ATTACHMENT "HAPPY99.EXE" AND WAS ADVISED BY
MY MCAFEE SCAN THAT IT IS A WORM. DO NOT DOWNLOAD!!!!!!!
>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Where in SW MO
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:25:08 -0500
>
><< Happy99.exe >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Howard,
What is the URL for their Web Site?
By the way, your computer is back to the furture. This email was dated
6/18/99 11:59
Thanks,
Gary
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which are
> being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
> Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
> describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
> Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to demand. The
> Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
> engine which has been in production for many years..... I don't know
> the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one last Walter
> Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $ 6900.00........
> A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
> conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation engine.
> The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
> fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which range from 120
> to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also available in a 6
> cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a 120
> HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get about 18% off
> which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very competetive
> considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
> suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
> engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your face,
> but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a reasonable
> choice.
> Thought this information might be of interest to somebody... ;-)
> H.W.
>
> WALTER MIKRON III AE
> TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
> Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
> Compression Ratio 6:1
> Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
> Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
> Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
> Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
> Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
> Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
> Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
> Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT, feathering-1.6 m dia
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> * Take-off 65/2600
> * Max. Continuous 65/2600
> * Max. Cruise 47/2350
> Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
> * Cruise 4.23/2350
> * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
> TBO 1200 Hrs
> Main Dimensions
>
> TECHNICAL
> SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
> HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
> No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
> Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
> Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
> Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
> Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
> Displacement
> (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
> Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
> Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
> *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
> Fuel Consumption
> (US Gal./HR)
> *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
> Recomended Fuel
> (Oct.) 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL
> Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
> TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
> Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
>
> Main Dimensions
> T = Center of Gravity
>
> MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
> M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
> DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
> AR "PUSHER" configuration
> B Increased take-off power
> +
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
Richard,
How do you get rid of "Happy99" virus if I'm not supposed to delete it?
domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
Here we go again! Michael, you appear to be infected with the Happy99
virus. Take a look at the message that got sent with your email
account.
For anyone else thinking of running Happy99.exe: DONT! DELETE IT! ITS A
VIRUS.
Richard
--- Michael King wrote:
> Gene,
>
> I don't have a true PIET, but a GN-1 you can look at
> while traveling through the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
>
> It is now hangered at a grass strip just north of Waxahachie,
> Texas. It was built in 1985 and is powered by an A-80 and
> has Cub gear. I did not build the plane, but have pictures and
> notes of its construction.
>
> If you want to call....I am available anytime...(214) 905-9299.
>
> Good luck...
>
> Mike King
> GN-1
> 77MK
> Dallas
>
>
> >Dave
> >
> >My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the
> Piet
> >group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started
> WWIII in
> >
> >the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
> >family and I will be
> >traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
> >I've just about
> >convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper)
> would
> >be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
> >picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an
> air
> >frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be
> passing
> >through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
> >Thursday and
> >Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
> > I've been thinking of
> >Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to
> see
> >how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through
> I'm
> >wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
> >plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort
> engine
> >up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would
> need
> >a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
> >escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not
> perform
> >well
> >
> >Gene Tomblin
> >
> >Wana- be Piet builder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
Sorry Guys,
When I sent a message to this list earlier today, I received
my return message with the Happy99 Virus alert. How should
I find who sent it to me, what I should I do to my computer
to get rid of it and what method should I use to keep
from repeatedly sending out again.
This is first virus I have ever received. Hopefully the last.
Mike
>Here we go again! Michael, you appear to be infected with the Happy99
>virus. Take a look at the message that got sent with your email
>account.
>
>For anyone else thinking of running Happy99.exe: DONT! DELETE IT! ITS A
>VIRUS.
>
>Richard
>
>--- Michael King wrote:
>> Gene,
>>
>> I don't have a true PIET, but a GN-1 you can look at
>> while traveling through the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
>>
>> It is now hangered at a grass strip just north of Waxahachie,
>> Texas. It was built in 1985 and is powered by an A-80 and
>> has Cub gear. I did not build the plane, but have pictures and
>> notes of its construction.
>>
>> If you want to call....I am available anytime...(214) 905-9299.
>>
>> Good luck...
>>
>> Mike King
>> GN-1
>> 77MK
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >My name is Gene Tomblin. I have been an almost silent part of the
>> Piet
>> >group for a while. I did ask what a GN1 was, and about started
>> WWIII in
>> >
>> >the process. My wife is from O'Fallon MO ( near St Louis) and my
>> >family and I will be
>> >traveling from the Metroplex of Van TX to O'Fallon later this week.
>> >I've just about
>> >convinced my better half that building an airplane (Air Camper)
>> would
>> >be a good thing. I'd love to see one up close , I've looked at ever
>> >picture I can find. I'm full of questions that a good look at an
>> air
>> >frame could answer . Where in South West MO are you? I'll be
>> passing
>> >through Joplin, Springfield, Rolla etc. on I 44 etc on my way
>> >Thursday and
>> >Friday and again the following week but in the other direction .
>> > I've been thinking of
>> >Corvair power because of economy weight and power. I'd like to
>> see
>> >how your O 200 is coweled. With all Domonic has been going through
>> I'm
>> >wondering if it's a good idea. When I first saw an article in Kit
>> >plane about Air Campers I though I'd use a 1.9 Leter escort
>> engine
>> >up front but after looking around a bit I decided that it would
>> need
>> >a reduction to perform well and the one example of a piet with an
>> >escort engine I read about came out heavy an as a resuld did not
>> perform
>> >well
>> >
>> >Gene Tomblin
>> >
>> >Wana- be Piet builder
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
| Subject: | Piet owners and builders |
Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
Keep in mind that it's designed to
> run as an INVERTED in-line. Advantage, better prop clearance.
> Disadvantage, odd looking Piet ;-)
>
> Ken
>
Ken,
On the better prop clearance thing, are you suggesting raising the
thrust-line? How much is involved in making such a change?
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
Michael King wrote:
>
> Part 1.1 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
What is this executable you are sending out? Explain
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
Understood, disreguard.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> Richard,
> How do you get rid of "Happy99" virus if I'm not supposed to delete it?
Domenic,
That is DONT..........COMMA............DELETE IT.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | Mugs, hats, t- shirts,mouse pads |
To anyone interested,
I just had some samples made to see what they would turn out like. The
vendor at the airshow urned out to be a fellow I went to school with 32
years ago. He built a seawind aircraft. anyway he made up a sample of each
of the above. It's a picture of my Pietenpol from last week-ends airshow
titled with" 70th Anniversary", and date" 1929-1999". They turned out pretty
good. Let me know if y'all would like to order one. The hat of couse is not
as good as the one I received from Steve. My cost was $8.00 for the mug
$7.00 for the hat, $15.00 for the T-shirt and $8.00 for the mouse pad. These
are Canadian $$$ and I'm not sure what shipping would costs would be. I'll
try and get them weighed, and also find some shipping containers for the
mugs so they won't break. I may bring some to Brodhead as well.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHED FILL THAT CAME FROM MICHAEL KING!!!!!
*********IT IS THE HAPPY99 VIRUS ***********
Micheal King,
Please use a current virus scan software to eliminate your virus before
you email anyone else!!!
Check out this web site for an explanation.
http://www.e-musicbox.com/happy99virus.htm
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Where in SW MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where in SW MO |
Dannymac,
I did NOT intend to send out an executable file. I was apparently
a victim of a virus that attached itself to my email program and
automatically was sent unknowing to me to the group when I sent
an earlier message.
I would like to know how to dispose of this virus so others I write
to will not be infected.
Sorry again.
Mike
>Michael King wrote:
>>
>> Part 1.1 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>
>
>What is this executable you are sending out? Explain
>
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mugs, hats, t- shirts,mouse pads |
Was that a "Y'ALL"?, I heard coming from Domenics mouth. Well I'll be.
Must be from southern Canada! So far north, he's SOUTH.
>From: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Mugs, hats, t- shirts,mouse pads
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:42:00 -0400
>
>To anyone interested,
>I just had some samples made to see what they would turn out like. The
>vendor at the airshow urned out to be a fellow I went to school with 32
>years ago. He built a seawind aircraft. anyway he made up a sample of each
>of the above. It's a picture of my Pietenpol from last week-ends airshow
>titled with" 70th Anniversary", and date" 1929-1999". They turned out
>pretty
>good. Let me know if y'all would like to order one. The hat of couse is not
>as good as the one I received from Steve. My cost was $8.00 for the mug
>$7.00 for the hat, $15.00 for the T-shirt and $8.00 for the mouse pad.
>These
>are Canadian $$$ and I'm not sure what shipping would costs would be. I'll
>try and get them weighed, and also find some shipping containers for the
>mugs so they won't break. I may bring some to Brodhead as well.
>
>Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adolfo Pando <fitopando(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Howard
The LOM engines are made in the Czeck Republic (or Poland, I don't
really remember which) and that's the reason why they are so cheap.
Just imagine the cost in the original country.
I don't know if you heard of CASA, the Spanish firm that built the
B=FCker german biplanes during the civil war. Well, they are doing it
again, and power their planes with LOM engines. If you want to learn
more about this planes, that are sold as kits too, I would advise you
to take a look at the 'Kitplanes' mag kit directory.
FITO.
--- Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM
> engines which are
> being imported into the US by Moravia, and called
> for information.
> Below is a dump from their web site with
> specifications and tables
> describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing
> the import of the
> Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines
> due to demand. The
> Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline
> direct drive
> engine which has been in production for many
> years..... I don't know
> the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia
> has one last Walter
> Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted
> $ 6900.00........
> A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine....
> These are not
> conversions, but were designed many years ago as an
> aviation engine.
> The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP
> avaiation engine is
> fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines
> which range from 120
> to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also
> available in a 6
> cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as
> quoted for a 120
> HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could
> get about 18% off
> which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing
> looks very competetive
> considering a new engine of that HP, and either
> engine would work I
> suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are
> inline inverted
> engines. Not original .... no radiator right in
> front of your face,
> but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough
> to be a reasonable
> choice.
> Thought this information might be of interest to
> somebody... ;-)
> H.W.
>
>
> WALTER MIKRON III AE
> TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
> Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
> Compression Ratio 6:1
> Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas,
> carburator,fuel pump
> Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase,
> dual oil pump
> Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
> Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5
> KW
> Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
> Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
> Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
> Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT,
> feathering-1.6 m dia
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> * Take-off 65/2600
> * Max. Continuous 65/2600
> * Max. Cruise 47/2350
> Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
> * Cruise 4.23/2350
> * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
> TBO 1200 Hrs
> Main Dimensions
>
>
> TECHNICAL
> SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
> HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
> No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
> Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
> 1.6 lb/HP
> Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1
> sq. Ft
> Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
> Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
> Displacement
> (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
> Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
> Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
> Performance (HP/RPM)
> *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
> *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
> Fuel Consumption
> (US Gal./HR)
> *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
> Recomended Fuel
> (Oct.) 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL 78 -
> 100 LL
> Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise
> c'clockwise c'clockwise
> TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
> Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
>
> Main Dimensions
> T Center of Gravity
>
> MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
> M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
> DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted
> flights
> AR "PUSHER" configuration
> B Increased take-off power
> +
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)bbt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Randy,
I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh, NC.
Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
than plans this time).
Where are you?
-Bill
> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
> From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> Subject: Piet owners and builders
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
> TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Hey, hold your horses, I'm not suggesting anything. I was merely observing
that since the LOM engine is an inverted inline engine, the thrust line
would naturally fall higher than an upright inline (ie Ford). It could
give you more prop clearance if it was needed and only after aerodynamic
considerations had been looked at. The more prop clearance, the less
chance of pulling debris into it.
Speaking of which, I remember one annual inspection on the 180
(floatplane) where we ran the engine up while tied on the slipway. The
engine was hanging over the water pointed slightly down reducing the
clearance by a couple of inches over normal. As the power came up to about
2000 RPM, a waterspout formed directly below the proptip and flowed right
up into the arc. Fortunately, we got Dad to thorttle back before it eroded
the tips too much. However, it was pretty neat to watch. The solid part of
the spout probably contained as much as 3-5 gallons of water or nearly 50
lbs. Pretty impressive.
Ken
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
> Ken Beanlands wrote:
> >
> Keep in mind that it's designed to
> > run as an INVERTED in-line. Advantage, better prop clearance.
> > Disadvantage, odd looking Piet ;-)
> >
> > Ken
> >
> Ken,
>
> On the better prop clearance thing, are you suggesting raising the
> thrust-line? How much is involved in making such a change?
>
> Dannymac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be
to others.
1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a
dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but
later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes
one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise you'll
constantly be replacing them.
2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting
tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,
you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
lines, but it works well.
Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
right tools.Hope this helps.
Ken.
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
> Randy,
> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh, NC.
> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
> than plans this time).
>
> Where are you?
>
> -Bill
>
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > MIME-version: 1.0
> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> > X-Listname:
> >
> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | User554784(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Ken,
That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders like
myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Where in SW MO <-- virus |
http://craig.medill.nwu.edu/happy99/
Gents: This is the "pill" that I used to get rid of the virus.....free and
easy to use, quick too.
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FW: Where in SW MO <-- virus
>BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>>
>> Richard,
>> How do you get rid of "Happy99" virus if I'm not supposed to delete it?
>
>Domenic,
>
>That is DONT..........COMMA............DELETE IT.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Ken,
I'm glad to learn that bit of info before MY time comes to fab
fittings. And thanks to everyone who shares their time and money saving
experiences with all of us. It's like looking over the masters shoulder.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Dear Group,
I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I will go ahead
and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am selling my Piet
this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00 or offer. This
is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered with an EA-81
Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There are 114 total
hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is quite good and will
make someone a great airplane. It will be available at broadhead for test
flights and viewing.
Duane Woolsey NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Aviod it ;-). Truthfully, that's exactly what I did. The tail was supposed
to be a bow, like the Cub/Aeronca. Instead, it is now like a Citabria,
squared off. Part of the reason for that was that I've always liked the
look of the Citabria and Scout and part was the dreaded bending. The
fuselage only required small angle bends which I did by heating and
carefully bending. Finally, I substituted laminated doug fir instead of
4130 for the wingtip bows.
However, there are several proven nethods for bending tube. There are
several methods described in the Bingelis (sp?) books. I tried the sand
method and it worked OK. This is where the tube is filled with wet sand an
then heated and bent. The sand will help retain the original round cross
section. Some commercial tube benders are also available from hardware
stores for the sizes we work with. Fortunately, electrical conduit is 3/4"
dia as well. However, they are only available in one bend radius. A larger
radius can be approximately by doing a number of short, small radius bends
along the length of tubing.
Hope this helps.
Ken
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 User554784(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ken,
>
> That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders like
> myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Post Photo, please
Dannymac
Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Group,
>
> I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I will go ahead
> and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am selling my Piet
> this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00 or offer. This
> is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered with an EA-81
> Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There are 114 total
> hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is quite good and will
> make someone a great airplane. It will be available at broadhead for test
> flights and viewing.
>
> Duane Woolsey NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Duane is being humble here. His plane is beautiful. I have flown it and it
outperforms my A-65 version. The finish is a dandy. You can see pictures
at:
http://steve.byu.edu/duane.htm
Going to miss it as my formation flying partner.
Steve Eldredge
> -----Original Message-----
> Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:02 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
>
>
> Dear Group,
>
> I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I
> will go ahead
> and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am
> selling my Piet
> this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00
> or offer. This
> is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered
> with an EA-81
> Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There
> are 114 total
> hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is
> quite good and will
> make someone a great airplane. It will be available at
> broadhead for test
> flights and viewing.
>
> Duane Woolsey NX6398
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Oh, sure- put up a Piet for sale AFTER I find out I'll be staying broke with
a new baby :-)
Is the fly-in still on for this weekend at Niel Armstrong's strip ? - If
your still going Dominic, hows about hauling some of those Mugs, hats and
whatever with ya- well ya'all, it looks like this Southern Canada thing is
contagous.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:02 PM
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
> Dear Group,
>
> I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I will go
ahead
> and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am selling my Piet
> this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00 or offer.
This
> is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered with an EA-81
> Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There are 114 total
> hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is quite good and
will
> make someone a great airplane. It will be available at broadhead for test
> flights and viewing.
>
> Duane Woolsey NX6398
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
The prop thrust line could stay where it is. The A Ford piets have that
sloped chin because of the fact that the engine is mostly above the crank.
The vertical Cof G would be lower. Probably a good thing. The forward view
would change. Good? A matter of opinion!
The engine would alow the thrust line to be raised but then the effects are
back to experimental... I have always wondered about Bernards setting of the
crank centerline. How many ways did he try it before he settled on the
numbers he used?
I agree with you SteveE. Cowled in that engine would look neat!
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Walter Micron engines
>Ken Beanlands wrote:
>>
> Keep in mind that it's designed to
>> run as an INVERTED in-line. Advantage, better prop clearance.
>> Disadvantage, odd looking Piet ;-)
>>
>> Ken
>>
>Ken,
>
> On the better prop clearance thing, are you suggesting raising the
>thrust-line? How much is involved in making such a change?
>
>Dannymac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
There is an A-65 powered Piet here in Alberta,very low time for $11900
Canadian,in the COPA paper.
Doug
> From: Ian Holland
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Should I
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:20 PM
>
> Interesting!
> Remember that each one will take off, but one may land better than the
> other. One thing for sure is that if it takes off, you are guaranteed to
> land. $10,000 seems inexpensive to me ($can. He may be letting it go at
> a discounted labour rate.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duane <Duaner(at)atl.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
Anybody go any info on William Wynnn's Corvair Conversion Manual. I sent
him a check back in April, and haven't gotten a thing. I've called but
get a strange noise on his answering machine.
Thanks,
Duane Revennaugh
Anybody go any info on William
Wynnn's Corvair
Conversion Manual. I sent him a check back in April, and haven't gotten
a thing.
I've called but get a strange noise on his answering
machine.
Thanks,
Duane
Revennaugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
Duane wrote:
>
> Anybody go any info on William Wynnn's Corvair Conversion Manual. I
> sent him a check back in April, and haven't gotten a thing. I've
> called but get a strange noise on his answering machine.
You actually get through to his machine?
I get a recording that states, "Your call did not go through"...
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duane <Duaner(at)atl.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
Pat,
After a long ring count dialing 1-500-677-3794. I get his greeting then a
long beeeeeeeeep that never stops. once I started talking and the noise
stopped. But no return call.
Duane Revennaugh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
I keep trying to break away from work and go down and visit him. Tomorrow
doesn't look good, and I go on hospital call for a week on Fri. I may try
and take of a week from Fri. and drop in on him. Word has it that he no
longer is in the facility that he was located in last winter when I visited
him. (He was actually working in Edgewater , Fl., about 20 mi. south of his
Port Orange address.) If I locate him I'll post any info on this discussion
group. I'd like to see him respond to people, because he seemed
knowledgeable, enthusiastic about Piets, and willing to share info.
>From: Duane <Duaner(at)atl.mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:50:21 -0400
>
>Anybody go any info on William Wynnn's Corvair Conversion Manual. I sent
>him a check back in April, and haven't gotten a thing. I've called but get
>a strange noise on his answering machine.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Duane Revennaugh
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
Duane wrote:
>
> Pat,
> After a long ring count dialing 1-500-677-3794. I get his greeting then a
> long beeeeeeeeep that never stops. once I started talking and the noise
> stopped. But no return call.
Dialing the same number.... don't even get through. It could be a
phone company thing tho.
I did send off a letter to him on Monday.
Must be nice to be too busy to answer your phone. ;)
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
Larry Ragan wrote:
>
> I keep trying to break away from work and go down and visit him. Tomorrow
> doesn't look good, and I go on hospital call for a week on Fri. I may try
> and take of a week from Fri. and drop in on him. Word has it that he no
> longer is in the facility that he was located in last winter when I visited
> him. (He was actually working in Edgewater , Fl., about 20 mi. south of his
> Port Orange address.) If I locate him I'll post any info on this discussion
> group. I'd like to see him respond to people, because he seemed
> knowledgeable, enthusiastic about Piets, and willing to share info.
Yes, please pass along to him that we need his info... desperately.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
Hmmm.... I wonder which is more fun. Flying a Piet or making a new
baby......?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
>Oh, sure- put up a Piet for sale AFTER I find out I'll be staying broke
with
>a new baby :-)
>
>Is the fly-in still on for this weekend at Niel Armstrong's strip ? - If
>your still going Dominic, hows about hauling some of those Mugs, hats and
>whatever with ya- well ya'all, it looks like this Southern Canada thing is
>contagous.
>
>Mike
>----- Original Message -----
>From:
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:02 PM
>Subject: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
>
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I will go
>ahead
>> and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am selling my
Piet
>> this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00 or offer.
>This
>> is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered with an
EA-81
>> Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There are 114 total
>> hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is quite good and
>will
>> make someone a great airplane. It will be available at broadhead for
test
>> flights and viewing.
>>
>> Duane Woolsey NX6398
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
John Greenlee wrote:
>
> Hmmm.... I wonder which is more fun. Flying a Piet or making a new
> baby......?
I would imagine that the amount of time logged at each task would
have to be factored to get an accurate answer. :)
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael list <mclist(at)ptw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
A baby is just another "homebuilt", very experimental, takes up all your
free time and cash, likes a good bath and comes with a built-in "stall"
horn! Should have an EPA warning back by the tail, though.
And a very rewarding experience, love both of our giggly, blond girls!
Mike List
John Greenlee wrote:
>
> Hmmm.... I wonder which is more fun. Flying a Piet or making a new
> baby......?
>
> John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
>
> >Oh, sure- put up a Piet for sale AFTER I find out I'll be staying broke
> with
> >a new baby :-)
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | trimmed ailingeron |
Dear Group,
I haven't read any responses to the question about trimming of the
aileron. I'm curious myself. Any pieters here know a little something
about this?
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I am in the process of setting up for spoke wheels...again ! And have
decided to use 16 in rims. I notice that the piet's use a 21 inch rim and a
6 in wheel hub.
A quick ratio & proportion problem told me that I could use a 4.5 in hub
with a 16 in wheel rim.
I am a little worried about strenght whith this 4.5 in hub. Does my math
seem reasonable ? Assuming that I use a 16 in rim, rather that a 21 in rim
.
ocb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
Oilcan,
If you are refering to side loads on the 4.5" hub. I figure appx.
5.25" long spokes with near a 48 degree angle between opposings spokes
vertically. This would be greater than most of the wheels mentioned on
this site. I would say that would be more than adequate.
Dannymac
oil can wrote:
>
> I am in the process of setting up for spoke wheels...again ! And have
> decided to use 16 in rims. I notice that the piet's use a 21 inch rim and a
> 6 in wheel hub.
>
> A quick ratio & proportion problem told me that I could use a 4.5 in hub
> with a 16 in wheel rim.
>
> I am a little worried about strenght whith this 4.5 in hub. Does my math
> seem reasonable ? Assuming that I use a 16 in rim, rather that a 21 in rim
> .
>
> ocb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Gipson <ronr(at)onlinemac.com> |
To Group:
EAA Fly-in at Arlington Washington on July 7 - 11. Are there going to
be any Pietenpols on the line? It would be really nice to
representation from this group.
Ron Gipson
To Group:
EAA Fly-in at Arlington Washington on July 7 - 11. Are there
going to
be any Pietenpols on the line? It would be really nice to
representation
from this group.
Ron Gipson
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Engineers,
Why have I not heard anyone talk of using the aluminum piano hinge
on elevator and rudder such as Michael did on his ailerons? Is there a
simple reason not to.....let's say for safety's sake, that I'm just not
getting. What gives?
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wood main struts |
Does anyone know about how much more the wood struts would weigh over
the steel ones? Or less?
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
It will depend a great deal on the strength of your spokes. Buchanan's put
9 gauge stainless on mine and told me that each spoke could pull 1000 pounds
and that the aluminum hub or the steel rim would probably fail at the nipple
before the spoke broke. While this is linear, rather than side load, they also
told me that there are at least 11 spokes in tension and compression at all
rolling motion. The summary was that if I hit hard enough to break the wheel,
that would probably be the least of my concerns....{;~)
Warren
oil can wrote:
> I am in the process of setting up for spoke wheels...again ! And have
> decided to use 16 in rims. I notice that the piet's use a 21 inch rim and a
> 6 in wheel hub.
>
> A quick ratio & proportion problem told me that I could use a 4.5 in hub
> with a 16 in wheel rim.
>
> I am a little worried about strenght whith this 4.5 in hub. Does my math
> seem reasonable ? Assuming that I use a 16 in rim, rather that a 21 in rim
> .
>
> ocb
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Ken,
What do you mean by a side grinder? Is that a hand held grinder?
Also, anyone going to be at the North West EAA fly-in at Arlington with
their Piet?
Thanks,
Brent Reed
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
> 3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
> I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
> blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
> success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
> neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
> finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
>
> They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
> are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
> 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
> (less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
> metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
> fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
> lines, but it works well.
>
> Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
> done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
> right tools.Hope this helps.
>
> Ken.
>
>
> On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
>
> > Randy,
> > I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in
Raleigh, NC.
> > Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
> > fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
> > than plans this time).
> >
> > Where are you?
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
> > > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> > > Subject: Piet owners and builders
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > MIME-version: 1.0
> > > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> > > X-Listname:
> > >
> > > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
> > > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)bbt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using heavy
steel
channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45 degree
angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground to
approximate
the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a 20 ton
bottle
jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the bottle
jack
was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it works.
> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
> From: User554784(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> Ken,
>
> That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders like
> myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
OCB;
Others that I have known that have smaller diameter wheels with the stock
gear length have had landing problems. The angle of the plane on the gear is
not great enough to get it to stall properly on the flare on three points.
You may have to land on the tail wheel and plop it down when the wing is
done flying. Mike Cuy kinda had this as his gear is shorter but with the 19"
wheels. He did some bunny hops on each landing until he got used to the
narrow envelope of landing "angle of attack". Keep an eye out for
this...........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 1:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spoke wheels
>I am in the process of setting up for spoke wheels...again ! And have
>decided to use 16 in rims. I notice that the piet's use a 21 inch rim and a
>6 in wheel hub.
>
>A quick ratio & proportion problem told me that I could use a 4.5 in hub
>with a 16 in wheel rim.
>
>I am a little worried about strenght whith this 4.5 in hub. Does my math
>seem reasonable ? Assuming that I use a 16 in rim, rather that a 21 in rim
>.
>
>ocb
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
I like to spend as much time as possible on both of these projects.
John Duprey
John Greenlee wrote:
>
> Hmmm.... I wonder which is more fun. Flying a Piet or making a new
> baby......?
>
> John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
>
> >Oh, sure- put up a Piet for sale AFTER I find out I'll be staying broke
> with
> >a new baby :-)
> >
> >Is the fly-in still on for this weekend at Niel Armstrong's strip ? - If
> >your still going Dominic, hows about hauling some of those Mugs, hats and
> >whatever with ya- well ya'all, it looks like this Southern Canada thing is
> >contagous.
> >
> >Mike
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From:
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 5:02 PM
> >Subject: Re: Soob ea-81 conversion.
> >
> >
> >> Dear Group,
> >>
> >> I am not sure that this is the correct place to do this but I will go
> >ahead
> >> and post it just to see what kind of response I get. I am selling my
> Piet
> >> this summer at broadhead or Oshkosh. I am asking 12,000.00 or offer.
> >This
> >> is a to the plans airplane that weighs 680lbs and is powered with an
> EA-81
> >> Suburu. It is yellow and red with gray pinstriping. There are 114 total
> >> hours on it and it is in great shape. The workmanship is quite good and
> >will
> >> make someone a great airplane. It will be available at broadhead for
> test
> >> flights and viewing.
> >>
> >> Duane Woolsey NX6398
> >>
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
Dmac;
I didn't use the alum piano hinge on the tail surfaces as I didn't think it
would look right. You would have to slot both mating pieces to accept the
hinge and there isn't a gap seal problem to speak of to cure. The "old"
hinges look "airplane-ish" I guess.........The piano hinge on the ailerons
looks like it otta be there and is hardly noticeable. Piano hinges on the
tail would stike out like a sore...uh....thumb !?!?
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 1:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piano hinge
>Dear Engineers,
>
> Why have I not heard anyone talk of using the aluminum piano hinge
>on elevator and rudder such as Michael did on his ailerons? Is there a
>simple reason not to.....let's say for safety's sake, that I'm just not
>getting. What gives?
>
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
To the group,
Hope some of the closer living Piet. Discussion Group members can come up To
Brussels , Ontario for the 11th Anniv. at the field and for the Designs'
70th Anniv. this week-end. If you can't fly-in please come by car. The
weather promises to be great, expect a nice 23 degrees Celcius, that's 73.4
deg. Faranheit.
See y'all there,
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynn's Corvair Conversion Manual |
I sent a check in February for the manual and the
newsletter. I sent a follow-up in April, asking about
my order. I haven't heard a word from him.
--- Patrick Panzera wrote:
> Larry Ragan wrote:
> >
> > I keep trying to break away from work and go down
> and visit him. Tomorrow
> > doesn't look good, and I go on hospital call for a
> week on Fri. I may try
> > and take of a week from Fri. and drop in on him.
> Word has it that he no
> > longer is in the facility that he was located in
> last winter when I visited
> > him. (He was actually working in Edgewater , Fl.,
> about 20 mi. south of his
> > Port Orange address.) If I locate him I'll post
> any info on this discussion
> > group. I'd like to see him respond to people,
> because he seemed
> > knowledgeable, enthusiastic about Piets, and
> willing to share info.
>
> Yes, please pass along to him that we need his
> info... desperately.
>
> Pat
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Keep in mind that it is generally not possible to register a Canadian
registered experimental plane in the US or vice versa. There are no
exemptions in the rules to register an experimental plane or obtain a
flight permit for same in either country. Therefore, you would have to
tear the plane back down to allow for pre-cover and pre-flight
inspections. Given the trouble in doing that, it's generally accepted that
it's not possible to sell across the border.
Of course, there is an exemption to allow Canadisn registered
experimentals to FLY in the US, as long as it remains Canadian registered
and the proper permission is obtained. The reverse is also possible.
Ken
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Doug wrote:
> There is an A-65 powered Piet here in Alberta,very low time for $11900
> Canadian,in the COPA paper.
> Doug
>
> ----------
> > From: Ian Holland
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Should I
> > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:20 PM
> >
> > Interesting!
> > Remember that each one will take off, but one may land better than the
> > other. One thing for sure is that if it takes off, you are guaranteed to
> > land. $10,000 seems inexpensive to me ($can. He may be letting it go at
> > a discounted labour rate.
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: spoke wheels |
ocb,
I know you'll see homemade wheels in both 18 and 21" styles. Sky Gypsy for
example has 18" wheels. I do not know about 16" ones. Maybe you might
consider 18" wheels. The proportion looks nice.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 12:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spoke wheels
>I am in the process of setting up for spoke wheels...again ! And have
>decided to use 16 in rims. I notice that the piet's use a 21 inch rim and a
>6 in wheel hub.
>
>A quick ratio & proportion problem told me that I could use a 4.5 in hub
>with a 16 in wheel rim.
>
>I am a little worried about strenght whith this 4.5 in hub. Does my math
>seem reasonable ? Assuming that I use a 16 in rim, rather that a 21 in rim
>.
>
>ocb
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Gary:
The LOM / Walter Micron website is all that WWW & HTTP gibberish
followed by moraviation.com
I'll send it to you in proper form if you require it. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Walter Micron engines
>Howard,
>
>What is the URL for their Web Site?
>
>By the way, your computer is back to the furture. This email was
dated
>6/18/99 11:59
>
>Thanks,
>Gary
>
>
>Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which
are
>> being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
>> Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
>> describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
>> Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to demand.
The
>> Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
>> engine which has been in production for many years..... I don't
know
>> the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one last
Walter
>> Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $
6900.00........
>> A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
>> conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation
engine.
>> The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
>> fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which range from
120
>> to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also available in a
6
>> cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a
120
>> HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get about 18%
off
>> which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very
competetive
>> considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
>> suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
>> engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your
face,
>> but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a
reasonable
>> choice.
>> Thought this information might be of interest to somebody...
;-)
>> H.W.
>>
>> WALTER MIKRON III AE
>> TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
>> Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
>> Compression Ratio 6:1
>> Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
>> Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
>> Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
>> Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
>> Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
>> Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
>> Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
>> Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT, feathering-1.6 m
dia
>> Performance (HP/RPM)
>> * Take-off 65/2600
>> * Max. Continuous 65/2600
>> * Max. Cruise 47/2350
>> Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
>> * Cruise 4.23/2350
>> * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
>> TBO 1200 Hrs
>> Main Dimensions
>>
>> TECHNICAL
>> SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
>> HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
>> No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
>> Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
>> Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
>> Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
>> Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
>> Displacement
>> (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
>> Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
>> Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
>> Performance (HP/RPM)
>> *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
>> *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
>> Fuel Consumption
>> (US Gal./HR)
>> *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
>> Recomended Fuel
>> (Oct.) 78 -
>> 100 LL 78 -
>> 100 LL 78 -
>> 100 LL 78 -
>> 100 LL
>> Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
>> TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
>> Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
>>
>> Main Dimensions
>> T = Center of Gravity
>>
>> MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
>> M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
>> DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
>> AR "PUSHER" configuration
>> B Increased take-off power
>> +
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walter Micron engines |
Howard,
Thanks, I found it.
Gary
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> Gary:
> The LOM / Walter Micron website is all that WWW & HTTP gibberish
> followed by moraviation.com
>
> I'll send it to you in proper form if you require it. :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Woodbridge <garywood(at)flash.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Walter Micron engines
>
> >Howard,
> >
> >What is the URL for their Web Site?
> >
> >By the way, your computer is back to the furture. This email was
> dated
> >6/18/99 11:59
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Gary
> >
> >
> >Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> >
> >> I just got curious about the Walter Micron and LOM engines which
> are
> >> being imported into the US by Moravia, and called for information.
> >> Below is a dump from their web site with specifications and tables
> >> describing the engines. Moravia is discontinuing the import of the
> >> Walter Micron and concentrating on the LOM engines due to demand.
> The
> >> Walter Micron is a 65 HP inverted air cooled inline direct drive
> >> engine which has been in production for many years..... I don't
> know
> >> the history of the LOM engines. Currently Moravia has one last
> Walter
> >> Micron 65 HP engine new in the box and I was quoted $
> 6900.00........
> >> A real bargain for a brand new aircraft engine.... These are not
> >> conversions, but were designed many years ago as an aviation
> engine.
> >> The weight of 155 LBS for an "equipped" 65 HP avaiation engine is
> >> fantastic by 4 cycle standards. The LOM engines which range from
> 120
> >> to 160 HP weigh in at from 230-250 lbs, and are also available in a
> 6
> >> cylinder version with more HP. Price on the LOM as quoted for a
> 120
> >> HP engine is $13,000.00, and I was told that I could get about 18%
> off
> >> which figures out to $ 10,660.00. This pricing looks very
> competetive
> >> considering a new engine of that HP, and either engine would work I
> >> suspect in a Pietenpol, and look decent as both are inline inverted
> >> engines. Not original .... no radiator right in front of your
> face,
> >> but the Walter Micron engine dates back far enough to be a
> reasonable
> >> choice.
> >> Thought this information might be of interest to somebody...
> ;-)
> >> H.W.
> >>
> >> WALTER MIKRON III AE
> >> TECHNICAL SPECS. 65 HORSEPOWER
> >> Engine Displacement 149 Cubic Inches
> >> Compression Ratio 6:1
> >> Fuel System unleaded min 72 Oct. gas, carburator,fuel pump
> >> Lubrication System separate oil tank, dry crankcase, dual oil pump
> >> Ignition dual magnetos Scintilla type
> >> Electrical System 14V, alternator 200W, starter 0.5 KW
> >> Weight - Dry 132.2 Lbs.
> >> Weight - Equipped 155.1 Lbs.
> >> Propeller - Fixed V218 B-1.5 m dia
> >> Propeller - Controllable Hoffmann V62 R/L 160BT, feathering-1.6 m
> dia
> >> Performance (HP/RPM)
> >> * Take-off 65/2600
> >> * Max. Continuous 65/2600
> >> * Max. Cruise 47/2350
> >> Fuel Consumption (Gal./RPM)
> >> * Cruise 4.23/2350
> >> * Economy Cruise 3.04/2000
> >> TBO 1200 Hrs
> >> Main Dimensions
> >>
> >> TECHNICAL
> >> SPECIFICATIONS M132A M132B M332A M332B
> >> HORSEPOWER 120 132 140 160
> >> No. of cylinders 4 4 4 4
> >> Power to weight ratio 1.7 lb/HP 1.7 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP 1.6 lb/HP
> >> Frontal area 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft. 2.1 sq. Ft 2.1 sq. Ft
> >> Bore (Inches) 4.13 4.13 4.13 4.13
> >> Stroke (Inches) 4.53 4.53 4.53 4.53
> >> Displacement
> >> (Cubic Inches) 242.8 242.8 242.8 242.8
> >> Compression Ratio 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1 6.3:1
> >> Propeller Drive direct direct direct direct
> >> Performance (HP/RPM)
> >> *Take-off 120/2700 132/3000 140/2700 160/3000
> >> *Cruise 100/2400 100/2400 120/2400 120/2400
> >> Fuel Consumption
> >> (US Gal./HR)
> >> *Cruise 2400 RPM 7.1 7.1 7.6 7.6
> >> Recomended Fuel
> >> (Oct.) 78 -
> >> 100 LL 78 -
> >> 100 LL 78 -
> >> 100 LL 78 -
> >> 100 LL
> >> Crankshaft Rotation c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise c'clockwise
> >> TBO (HRS) 2000 2000 2000 2000
> >> Dry Weight (Lbs.) 231 232 249 250
> >>
> >> Main Dimensions
> >> T = Center of Gravity
> >>
> >> MODELS: M132A Aerobatic, naturally aspirated
> >> M332A Aerobatic, supercharged
> >> DESIGNATION: AK Fully aerobatic incl. inverted flights
> >> AR "PUSHER" configuration
> >> B Increased take-off power
> >> +
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Nelsen <richard.nelsen(at)sdl.usu.edu> |
Going out of town for a couple weeks. Please unsubscribe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New section of AirCamper.org! |
At long last something new to report!
http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
posts.
You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
for them.
Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
Enjoy!
Richard
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New section of AirCamper.org - Addendum |
Note to people whos articles I will be pulling from the email
archive... If I post something you emailed to the group and you do not
want it posted on the site, please email me asap, and I will remove it.
Richard
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <duprey(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
Richard: Thanks! this section looks great, and should be a wonderfull asset
to all us builders. Thank you for all you are doing for the Aircamper
community.
John Duprey
> At long last something new to report!
>
> http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
>
> This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
> articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
> going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
> listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
> posts.
>
> You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
> experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
> article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
>
> As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
> and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
> for them.
>
> Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
> over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
>
> Enjoy!
> Richard
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
"the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: trimmed ailingeron |
Nice to think about, but I doubt I would really ever do it. The piet isn't
a cadidate for aerodynamic cleanup. Except for gap seals.
Just my $.02 worth
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> dannymac
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:36 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: trimmed ailingeron
>
>
> Dear Group,
>
> I haven't read any responses to the question about trimming of the
> aileron. I'm curious myself. Any pieters here know a little something
> about this?
>
> Dannymac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
Richard,
Just took a look. Great idea and great work. Thanks and kudos.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
> At long last something new to report!
>
> http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
>
> This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
> articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
> going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
> listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
> posts.
>
> You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
> experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
> article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
>
> As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
> and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
> for them.
>
> Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
> over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
>
> Enjoy!
> Richard
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
Dear Richard,
A very worthy and generous sharing of knowledge. There is no substitute
for experience but surely knowledge in an easily accessed format can,
oftentimes, be a timesaving shortcut to experience. My appreciation, and I
am sure those of many others, for what you are so freely sharing. Randall
Reihing
>At long last something new to report!
>
>http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
>
>This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
>articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
>going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
>listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
>posts.
>
>You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
>experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
>article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
>
>As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
>and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
>for them.
>
>Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
>over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
>
>Enjoy!
>Richard
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
unsubscribe from aircamper.org failed - unsubscribe for a couple of
weeks-vacation!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die
grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
>couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be
>to others.
>
>1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a
>dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but
>later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
>expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
>wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes
>one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise you'll
>constantly be replacing them.
>
>2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
>then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting
>tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,
>you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
>
>3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
>I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
>blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
>success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
>neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
>finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
>
>They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
>are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
>1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
>(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
>metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
>fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
>lines, but it works well.
>
>Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
>done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
>right tools.Hope this helps.
>
>Ken.
>
>
>On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
>
>> Randy,
>> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,
NC.
>> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
>> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
>> than plans this time).
>>
>> Where are you?
>>
>> -Bill
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
>> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
>> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
>> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > MIME-version: 1.0
>> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>> > X-Listname:
>> >
>> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
>> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
Thanks once again! Ya know Becky Sue, some a them yankees is all right!
>From: Richard DeCosta
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: New section of AirCamper.org!
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
>
>At long last something new to report!
>
>http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
>
>This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
>articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
>going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
>listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
>posts.
>
>You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
>experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
>article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
>
>As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
>and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
>for them.
>
>Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
>over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
>
>Enjoy!
>Richard
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
>how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
Larry Ragan
Jacksonville, Fl.
lragan(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool
with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached
to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.
Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at
http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=
Ken
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die
> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>
>
> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be
> >to others.
> >
> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a
> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but
> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes
> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise you'll
> >constantly be replacing them.
> >
> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting
> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,
> >you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
> >
> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
> >
> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
> >lines, but it works well.
> >
> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
> >right tools.Hope this helps.
> >
> >Ken.
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
> >
> >> Randy,
> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,
> NC.
> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
> >> than plans this time).
> >>
> >> Where are you?
> >>
> >> -Bill
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
> >> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> >> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> > MIME-version: 1.0
> >> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> >> > X-Listname:
> >> >
> >> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
> >> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Streamlining round struts |
As was suggested, I ordered the streamlined covers from LEAF about a week
ago. Last night they arrived! They look great although there is no
suggested way to install them . What you get is 4 - 10' lengths of what
looks like 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" extruded PVC, seamless, streamlined tube. It is
reasonable stiff and still quite light. Anything much over 1-5/8" will
distort the natural shape of the cover.
My front strut is 1-5/8" 4130 and the cover will fit with the tube
touching on the thickest cross section of the cover. The rear strut is 1"
4130 and it will sit nearer the leading edge of the cover.
What I plan on doing is using four or five 6" foam or balsa blocks cut to
shape and glued to the steel strut to mount the covers over. It's not as
easy as I had hoped but shouldn't be too bad and will look great. They
are not badly priced at $189 USD and will certainly save me a lot of time.
The only complaint is that the packaging was not that great. The box had
split in half exposing the covers. one ended up with a small dent near the
leading edge. Fortunately, it will fall over the area where the jury strut
attaches and I'll be able to cut it out for the mounting bolt to go
through.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090
etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a
Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinking
about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool
>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached
>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.
>
>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at
>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=
>
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
>
>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die
>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>>
>>
>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not
be
>> >to others.
>> >
>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with
a
>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it
but
>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE
makes
>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise
you'll
>> >constantly be replacing them.
>> >
>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting
>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.
However,
>> >you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
>> >
>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
>> >
>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
>> >lines, but it works well.
>> >
>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
>> >right tools.Hope this helps.
>> >
>> >Ken.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
>> >
>> >> Randy,
>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in
Raleigh,
>> NC.
>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
>> >> than plans this time).
>> >>
>> >> Where are you?
>> >>
>> >> -Bill
>> >>
>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
>> >> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
>> >> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
>> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >> > MIME-version: 1.0
>> >> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>> >> > X-Listname:
>> >> >
>> >> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and
VA?
>> >> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet. |
Good Question. The group was "AIR-VAIRS NEWSLETTER" and the portions I
have bring up more questions than answers. Very little actual experience
due most contributors were in the building stage. Much discussion on
getting maximum horsepower (Water inject, fuel inject, PSRU, Turbo) as it
was intended for any aircraft, not particularly the Piet. If someone
actually has all the articles they would probably be worth posting on
DeCosta's site. All the articles I have are from 1977-1979 so one would
think that a lot of those corvairs should be flying. If I remember
correctly only Bernies Piet and Watermans "Chevy Bird" were actually
flying. A friend gave me a what I have and I believe he got them from an
RAH member. I have no means of scanning them but if no one has the full
set I could mail a copy to someone for posting on the net.
Wayne Sippola
> > The corvair conversion group that I mentioned went into how to convert
to
> > dual ignition.. The articles were by a "Waldo" Waterman who built a
pusher
> > aircraft with a home built belt drive reduction specifically for the
>
> How can I get a copy of these writings?
>
> Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
My wife and I are making plans even as we type here to build the Piet and
are planning on (Maybe) building the fuse out of tubing.
What Id like to find is a reasonablely priced source for the tubing. We
welcome all suggestions and would like to email with others that have
built there birds as cheaply as they could (within safty of course)!
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can get
like a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal.
Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Take
standard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,
gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using
2 hands on the grinder.
When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you will
generally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge of
the cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always pretty
easy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down to
the line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well against
the metal.
Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleys
to change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.
Hope this helps,
Ken
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
> OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090
> etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
> metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a
> Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinking
> about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: band saws and steel sheet |
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090
>etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
>metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a
>Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?)
I did it on mine with a jackshaft and pulleys mounted to the back of the
saws base. Blades are reasonably cheap.
You need to get the saw speed down around 150 feet/min.
The other good tool is a sturdy hacksaw with a fine 32 tooth good quality
blade. It is amazing what can be done with simple tools.
and skills learned in what my students call the "hacksaw and file club"
Buy the best hack saw frame and blades and files that you can find. They are
relatively cheap compared to the fustration of poor tools.
John Mc
>>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool
>>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached
>>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.
>>
>>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at
>>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
>>
>>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die
>>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>>>
>>>
>>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
>>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not
>be
>>> >to others.
>>> >
>>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started
with
>a
>>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it
>but
>>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
>>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
>>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE
>makes
>>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise
>you'll
>>> >constantly be replacing them.
>>> >
>>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
>>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for
fitting
>>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.
>However,
>>> >you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
>>> >
>>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
>>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw,
metal
>>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
>>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
>>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
>>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it
earlier.
>>> >
>>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and
there
>>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
>>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
>>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
>>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
>>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
>>> >lines, but it works well.
>>> >
>>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
>>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
>>> >right tools.Hope this helps.
>>> >
>>> >Ken.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Randy,
>>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in
>Raleigh,
>>> NC.
>>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
>>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little
longer
>>> >> than plans this time).
>>> >>
>>> >> Where are you?
>>> >>
>>> >> -Bill
>>> >>
>>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
>>> >> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
>>> >> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
>>> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> >> > MIME-version: 1.0
>>> >> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>>> >> > X-Listname:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and
>VA?
>>> >> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAM & JAN MARINUCCI |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
William,
Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you
give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two to
make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using
heavy steel
>channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45
degree
>angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground
to approximate
>the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a
20 ton bottle
>jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
>
>I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the
bottle jack
>was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it
works.
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:44:12 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: User554784(at)aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> MIME-version: 1.0
>> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>> X-Listname:
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> That's great advise that will save hundreds of hours for the builders
like
>> myself who are just starting. Got any advice for bending?
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: TUBING SOURCES. |
One of the best tubing sources is Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, 114 Sawmill Rd.,
Dillsburg, PA 17019. Charlie Vogelsong is easy to work with and has a good
stock. Phone is 717-432-4589. They have a 6 page list of stock including
1010-1026 tubing, 4130 tubing, carbon steel box tubing, stainless tubing,
aluminum tubing, 4130 sheet, rod and bar stock, streamlined 4130 tubing and
hardware.
Steve W wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> My wife and I are making plans even as we type here to build the Piet and
> are planning on (Maybe) building the fuse out of tubing.
> What Id like to find is a reasonablely priced source for the tubing. We
> welcome all suggestions and would like to email with others that have
> built there birds as cheaply as they could (within safty of course)!
>
> Steve
> Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
> url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
> email= vistin(at)juno.com
>
> __________
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wood main struts |
For stuts check out this.
Doug http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
> From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: wood main struts
> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 12:00 AM
>
> Does anyone know about how much more the wood struts would weigh over
> the steel ones? Or less?
>
> Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: band saws and steel sheet |
Take a quality hacksaw blade,grind down the back side,put it in your jigsaw
and proceed to cut 4130 like butter,around curves and all,it's just that
easy.
Doug
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: band saws and steel sheet
> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 6:29 PM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>
>
> >OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080,
.090
> >etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
> >metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to
slow a
> >Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?)
>
> I did it on mine with a jackshaft and pulleys mounted to the back of the
> saws base. Blades are reasonably cheap.
> You need to get the saw speed down around 150 feet/min.
> The other good tool is a sturdy hacksaw with a fine 32 tooth good quality
> blade. It is amazing what can be done with simple tools.
> and skills learned in what my students call the "hacksaw and file club"
> Buy the best hack saw frame and blades and files that you can find. They
are
> relatively cheap compared to the fustration of poor tools.
> John Mc
>
>
> >>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool
> >>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel
attached
> >>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.
> >>
> >>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at
> >>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=
> >>
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a
die
> >>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> >>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do
have a
> >>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may
not
> >be
> >>> >to others.
> >>> >
> >>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started
> with
> >a
> >>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched
it
> >but
> >>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
> >>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and
2
> >>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE
> >makes
> >>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise
> >you'll
> >>> >constantly be replacing them.
> >>> >
> >>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You
can
> >>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for
> fitting
> >>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane.
> >However,
> >>> >you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
> >>> >
> >>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side
grinder.
> >>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw,
> metal
> >>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with
varying
> >>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
> >>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until
I
> >>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it
> earlier.
> >>> >
> >>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and
> there
> >>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally
use
> >>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not
expensive
> >>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut
throught
> >>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels
go
> >>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside
the
> >>> >lines, but it works well.
> >>> >
> >>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
> >>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
> >>> >right tools.Hope this helps.
> >>> >
> >>> >Ken.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Randy,
> >>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in
> >Raleigh,
> >>> NC.
> >>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the
metal
> >>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little
> longer
> >>> >> than plans this time).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Where are you?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -Bill
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
> >>> >> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> >>> >> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
> >>> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>> >> > MIME-version: 1.0
> >>> >> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> >>> >> > X-Listname:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC,
and
> >VA?
> >>> >> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy
Gaskins
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> >When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your
eyes
> >>> >turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
be.
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
Richard, Thanx a bunch for you site. Brian Sanders in PA
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <duprey(at)excite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New section of AirCamper.org! |
>
>
>Richard: Thanks! this section looks great, and should be a wonderfull asset
>to all us builders. Thank you for all you are doing for the Aircamper
>community.
>
>John Duprey
>
>
>> At long last something new to report!
>>
>> http://www.aircamper.org/HowTo.cfm
>>
>> This new section is called "How-to's & Tips 'n Tricks" and contains
>> articles on how to do stuff (pretty self-explanitory I think). I am
>> going through my archive of 200+ emails from this group and making a
>> listing on this page for each of the more helpful and informative
>> posts.
>>
>> You can help! If you would like to share a bit of your knowledge and
>> experience in building Pietenpols, go to this page, and add your own
>> article. It doesnt have to be long, just helpful.
>>
>> As you will see when you get there, all articles are indexed by topic,
>> and, once theres enough of them, I will write a search engine feature
>> for them.
>>
>> Theres only a few articles now, but I will be adding quite a bit more
>> over this weekend, and hopefully so will you!
>>
>> Enjoy!
>> Richard
>> ===
>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
Just
>how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>
>>
>
>"the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"
>
>
>_______________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TUBING SOURCES. |
David:
I would second that sentiment, only I would drop the "one of".
Charlie's operation is the best bar none, and he has by far the
largest selection of aircraft metals of anybody who deals with the
homebuilder. Many items are available nowhere else in the known
universe. Charlie ships instantly, and his packaging is second to
none.... I've never recieved a damaged or scratched piece from him.
The effort and care in packaging even the smallest item often makes me
wonder where the profit is in the business. If it's metals you want
forget Wicks, Wag, and A.S.S. and go straight to Dillsburg.... You
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Schober <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TUBING SOURCES.
>One of the best tubing sources is Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, 114
Sawmill Rd.,
>Dillsburg, PA 17019. Charlie Vogelsong is easy to work with and has a
good
>stock. Phone is 717-432-4589. They have a 6 page list of stock
including
>1010-1026 tubing, 4130 tubing, carbon steel box tubing, stainless
tubing,
>aluminum tubing, 4130 sheet, rod and bar stock, streamlined 4130
tubing and
>hardware.
>
>Steve W wrote:
>
>> Steve wrote:
>> My wife and I are making plans even as we type here to build the
Piet and
>> are planning on (Maybe) building the fuse out of tubing.
>> What Id like to find is a reasonablely priced source for the
tubing. We
>> welcome all suggestions and would like to email with others that
have
>> built there birds as cheaply as they could (within safty of
course)!
>>
>> Steve
>> Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
>> url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
>> email= vistin(at)juno.com
>>
>> __________
>
>
>--
>
********
>
>David B.Schober, CPE
>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>Fairmont State College
>National Aerospace Education Center
>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>(304) 842-8300
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Norris <enorris2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | test -- please delete |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
I sure appreciate ya'lls addresses and phone numbers for tubing sources.
Thanks again
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Great info Ken. I recently cut all the spar fittings for my Hatz using a
foot shear which was a real fast way to
rough them out. Is there a particular make/model grinder that you have had
success with? (was that the link you sent before? if so could ya' send it
again?) Also gotta try Dougs hacksaw blade in the jigsaw. I have done a
little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw, it's pretty slow
going and awkward.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 6:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can get
>like a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal.
>Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Take
>standard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,
>gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using
>2 hands on the grinder.
>
>When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you will
>generally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge of
>the cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always pretty
>easy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down to
>the line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well against
>the metal.
>
>Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleys
>to change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
>
>> OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080,
.090
>> etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
>> metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow
a
>> Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me
thinking
>> about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | grain in 4130 sheets |
Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
walt
Make sure that when you make
brackets and
fittings, that you cut them from sheet with the grain of the
sheet.
The grain runs with the printing on
the
sheet.
And any fitting that you cut out
with a
grinder,where the wheel can cause hot spots, make sure that you
normalize the
piece. Unless it will be welded, which will take care of that
anyway.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Piet owners and builders |
"I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,
it's pretty slow going and awkward."
My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in a jigsaw)
but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding the blade away behind
the leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a blade that makes good
sharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat the blade!). Unmodified
blades work best for straight lines.
Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'll rough
it out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessary grind or
file to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.
I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held disk grinder also.
Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) and separate
later. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cutting off frozen
nuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts out has been proven
useful also (Other projects obviously).
Whatever that's worth.
Bill Sayre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
all of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but
should be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little
more info for reference?
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut
them from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Skytek flying struts |
Dear Experienced Builders,
Are the flying struts on Bernard's plans that are denoted as 2812
tubing made of steel or aluminum alloy? I looked in some catalogs to try
and identify this metal to make comparisons to the light struts offered
by Carlson Aircraft. These struts look terribly thin and inner
reinforcement looks nonexistent. They look like they would hold up to
the flying loads of a Piet, but weak on compression loads. Maybe a thin
plywood inner-core would substantially strengthen them to withstand
these compression loads. Just something to kick around the site. Any
feedback?
Dannymac P.S. THANKS, Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 4" electric grinder |
I just picked one up at Harbor Freight Tools at their half price sale for
$19.99. Cant go wrong for $20.
Hope to use it soon.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)bbt.com> |
With regards to Harbor Freight- I picked up a metal cutting bandsaw there for
$179.00. Not the most precise tool I've ever owned, but it's about the same
as the inexpensive Delta (and other brand names) you can pick up locally for
much more $$. Now that I've had it for a while, I don't know how I ever
did without it.....
> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:05:58 -0600
> From: steve(at)byu.edu
> Subject: 4" electric grinder
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> I just picked one up at Harbor Freight Tools at their half price sale for
> $19.99. Cant go wrong for $20.
>
> Hope to use it soon.
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending press |
I would also like to see that Bill,, Thanks....
-----Original Message-----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending press
>Sam,
>I'll try and get some pictures together some time next week (I'll need
>to borrow a camera), and send them directly to you. I got the idea
>fom a gentleman at Brodhead lest year.....
>
>-Bill
>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0400
>From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
>Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>X-Listname:
>
> William,
>Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you
>give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two to
>make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam
>-----Original Message-----
>From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>
>
>>I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using
>heavy steel
>>channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45
>degree
>>angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is
ground
>to approximate
>>the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a
>20 ton bottle
>>jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
>>
>>I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the
>bottle jack
>>was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it
>works.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trimmed ailingeron |
Yes I know of one person that built a Sky Scout
that trimmed the aileron slightly and said that
he thinks it improved the handling, I think he may
have listed this change with the Buck Eye Pietenpol
association but again I will not list his name on the net
with out his expressed permission. This is not to say that
Pietenpols that didn't do this handle bad it's just
that if you know of a slight mod that might make
a little difference why not do it if it is not dangerous.
This observation was not of my own design but come
from an experienced builder who is about 75 years
old and as they same if ya live to 75 flying and building
homebuilts then you probably ain't no fool!
There may be a
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: trimmed ailingeron
>Dear Group,
>
> I haven't read any responses to the question about trimming of the
>aileron. I'm curious myself. Any pieters here know a little something
>about this?
>
>Dannymac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Ken,
I've cut up to .125 4130 sheet for my landing gear (Grega GN-1) with no
problems. Here's how.
I built a 2' by 2' frame of 2x4 s. Then put a sheet of 1/2 " plywood
over it to form a small "table" Then I cut out a 9" slit about 1/2"
wide in it.
Next I bought a steel cut-off blade for a spare old black and decker
circular hand saw. These are readily available at Lowes, etc. I bought
mine for about 3.00 or so. I then put the blade on the circular saw and
mounted it upside down on the table with the blade sticking up through
he table. I taped the trigger down and plugged it into a switched
electrical "strip" so I can turn it on easily. I then clam,ped the
whole rig into my clamping work table. It basically becomes a table saw
with a cut-off saw. It will cut like crazy.
Beware. You must be VERY VERY Careful. Use Eye and ear protection.
Very loud and tons of sparks (aka minute metal debris)
Use gloves - metal gets super hot . Works great - is very fast. Cuts
sheet or tubing . Does a GREAT job on .090 and down.
If I have confused you , sorry, I can post picture if you want. Good
Luck.
Happy Aviating, Bert Conoly
http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
> Sounds good. The trick is to get the thinnest cutting wheel you can get
> like a 1/16" or 3/32". That way you aren't cutting out too much metal.
> Make sure you clamp down the work in a vice or with C-clamps. Take
> standard precautions like wear safety glasses, dust mask, long sleaves,
> gloves and ear protectors and watch those sparks. Make sure you are using
> 2 hands on the grinder.
>
> When your cutting, keep well outside the line to start as you will
> generally tend to grind away a little more behind the leading edge of
> the cut as the blade continues down the work. Besides, it's always pretty
> easy to use the flat part of the grinding disk to bring the cut down to
> the line when your done. Try and use an ink that contrasts well against
> the metal.
>
> Oh yeahm to slow down your bandsaw, you would need to replace teh pulleys
> to change the gear ratio between the moter and lower drive wheel.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Ken
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
>
> > OK Ken, thanks... I have been trying to find the best way to cut .080, .090
> > etc sheet. Can't really afford to add a
> > metal cutting band saw to the shop at this time (anybody know how to slow a
> > Delta 10" band saw down to metal cutting speed?) so you have got me thinking
> > about die grinders (or side grinders). Might be a good way to go.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
And my $.02....
Use a benchtop belt sander with a course belt to finish shape 4130. You'll
be amazed how well it works. Cut to 1/16" or so outside the line and then
sand it down.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Sayre, William G <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Piet owners and builders
>
> "I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,
it's pretty slow going and awkward."
>
>My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in a
jigsaw) but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding the blade
away behind the leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a blade
that makes good sharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat the
blade!). Unmodified blades work best for straight lines.
>
>Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'll
rough it out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessary
grind or file to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.
>
>I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held disk grinder
also. Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) and
separate later. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cutting
off frozen nuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts out
has been proven useful also (Other projects obviously).
>
>Whatever that's worth.
>
>Bill Sayre
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Soob ea-81 conversion. |
>Hmmm.... I wonder which is more fun. Flying a Piet or making a new
>baby......?
>
Flying is the best thing I have ever done with clothes on... :-)
Saludos
Gary (four great kids) Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Hi guys (and Ladies):
I need to purchase some turn buckles (I cant remember the AN number) for
my tail group bracing and elevator/rudder controls. Where would be the
best place to get them so I wont have sell a kid or something?. Theres
a company that goes to Sun n Fun every year (B&B something-or-the-other)
that has LOTS of surplus as well as new equipment. I've bought a lot of
hardware there but never got their address. Do ya'll (yes I'm in the
south) have the address?
Thanks
Bert (Who's roasting in Tallahassee)
Please visit my GN site at
http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
See Yaaah!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Ahhh! :-)
>What I've always known as an angle or side grinder is a hand held tool
>with an electric or pneumatic motor with a cut-off/grinding wheel attached
>to one end at 90 degrees to the motor.
>
>Actually, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at
>http://www.dewalt.com/bigTool.asp?id=DW400&cat=GRD&id2=
>
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Mike Cunningham wrote:
>
>> Ken, what do you mean by side grinder? Do you mean something like a die
>> grinder with a cutting wheel on it?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 2:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>>
>>
>> >Speaking of metal fittings, the Christavia is full of them. I do have a
>> >couple of tips that are obvious to those who have done it, but may not be
>> >to others.
>> >
>> >1. Buy the highest powered 8" bench grinder you can find. I started with a
>> >dinky little unit that would slow right down as soon as you touched it but
>> >later bought a 1.5 hp Craftsman unit and would never go back. Even
>> >expensive ones are pretty cheap as all it is is a motor, housing and 2
>> >wheels. Fancy ones come with a light but get a severe duty bulb, GE makes
>> >one (sorry, but I gotta put in a plug for my company ;-). Otherwise you'll
>> >constantly be replacing them.
>> >
>> >2. Buy an extra wheel (3/4" width, idealy) and a wheel dresser. You can
>> >then round down the front edge of this wheel to cut scallops for fitting
>> >tube to tube. I know, I know, you aren't building a metal plane. However,
>> >you still have a tube engine mount ;-).
>> >
>> >3. The easiest way to cut 4130 that I've found is with a side grinder.
>> >I've tried cutting wheels in the grinder, table saw, circular saw, metal
>> >blades in the bandsaw a cutting torch and even a hacksaw with varying
>> >success. The best turned out to be a 4" B&D grinder given to me by a
>> >neighbour for helping him move. It sat on my shelf for a year until I
>> >finally decided to give it a try and I only wish I had tried it earlier.
>> >
>> >They are available in 4" and 6" varieties (maybe more as well) and there
>> >are a variety of inexpensive grinding wheels available. I generally use
>> >1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" x 4" wheels. These little guys are not expensive
>> >(less than $100 for a perfectly good budget 4") but will cut throught
>> >metal as if it were butter. Even 1/4" plate will grind away. Wheels go
>> >fairly quickly and it does tale a little practice to stay outside the
>> >lines, but it works well.
>> >
>> >Both of these tools were found only after 80% of the metal work was
>> >done. I can only imagine how much time I could have saved with the
>> >right tools.Hope this helps.
>> >
>> >Ken.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, William C. Beerman wrote:
>> >
>> >> Randy,
>> >> I'm one of a group of three collaborating on a long fuse Piet in Raleigh,
>> NC.
>> >> Fuselage and tailfeathers done, S T R U G G L I N G through the metal
>> >> fittings now (making a second pass at the hinges- just a little longer
>> >> than plans this time).
>> >>
>> >> Where are you?
>> >>
>> >> -Bill
>> >>
>> >> > Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:11:51 -0400
>> >> > From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
>> >> > Subject: Piet owners and builders
>> >> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >> > MIME-version: 1.0
>> >> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>> >> > X-Listname:
>> >> >
>> >> > Where can I get a list of Piet owners and builders for NC, SC, and VA?
>> >> > TIA and may each of you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: grain in 4130 sheets |
Mike,
I've always been impressed with the experience of my AP. He's an
old guy who's been doing this for years. His "rule" is to make the
bracket length with the grain. I guess it would be like making a 2x4
with the grain going across the board. Wouldn't be very strong. And
always bend across the grain. Also any "quick" heat on 4130 causes
brittleness, which could come from a grinder,(torch cutting is a no-no)
if you ever tried to file 4130 at a torch cut, you'll see its harder
than the file.
I just figure if I'm going to make the bracket, I'll make it like the
pros.
walt
PS If you ever saw the picture on one of the Pietenpol sites , taken at
Brodhead, showing a guy running an engine on a stand.
This AP is the guy that took that engine, with a single throw
crankshaft, and made a double throw crank (from a block of steel)
rebuilt it , and you see it run. He 's building another crank now.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
all of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but
should be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little
more info for reference?
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut
them from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> With regards to Harbor Freight- I picked up a metal cutting bandsaw there
> for
> $179.00. Not the most precise tool I've ever owned, but it's about the same
> as the inexpensive Delta (and other brand names) you can pick up locally
for
>
> much more $$. Now that I've had it for a while, I don't know how I ever
> did without it.....
Keep your eyes on the newspaper. I found a metal cutting band saw at a
garage sale for $75. He even threw in a couple of brand new blades with it.
:-)
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets |
I had a structural engineer from Boeing tell me that with flat steel the
grain direction
does not really matter. If it is aluminum it is a different story. The
grain direction does
matter.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets |
Sir;
Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look for
around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the grain or agin'
it...?"
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: PTNPOL(at)aol.com
Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 2:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
>I had a structural engineer from Boeing tell me that with flat steel the
>grain direction
>does not really matter. If it is aluminum it is a different story. The
>grain direction does
>matter.
>
> Ron
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
I myself have no refrence on what happens to steel that has been ground too
hot, but if any one would like to test the theroy, just take two pieces of
steel, grind one till it turns blue, and then try to cut both with a file.
The blue one will have been hardened by heat, and air. A hrdened part it
brittle, and subjuct to crackes.
>From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0500
>
>Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read all
>of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
>I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but should
>be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
>Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
>grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
>spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little more
>info for reference?
>-----Original Message-----
> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
> Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
>
>
> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
>from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
>cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will be
>welded, which will take care of that anyway.
> walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
look in the for sale section of the BPA web site and you will find an
advertisement for turnbuckles at $6.00 each. They are new surplus and are
just what you want.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: TUBING SOURCES. |
CHARLIE IS VERY ADEPT AT USING HIS MATERIALS, ALSO. I LEARNED BICYCLE FRAME
BUILDING FROM HIM AROUND 1980. GREAT FELLOW!
Harrisburg, PA (about 18 miles from Charlie)
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TUBING SOURCES.
>David:
> I would second that sentiment, only I would drop the "one of".
>Charlie's operation is the best bar none, and he has by far the
>largest selection of aircraft metals of anybody who deals with the
>homebuilder. Many items are available nowhere else in the known
>universe. Charlie ships instantly, and his packaging is second to
>none.... I've never recieved a damaged or scratched piece from him.
>The effort and care in packaging even the smallest item often makes me
>wonder where the profit is in the business. If it's metals you want
>forget Wicks, Wag, and A.S.S. and go straight to Dillsburg.... You
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David B. Schober <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 4:52 PM
>Subject: Re: TUBING SOURCES.
>
>
>>One of the best tubing sources is Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, 114
>Sawmill Rd.,
>>Dillsburg, PA 17019. Charlie Vogelsong is easy to work with and has a
>good
>>stock. Phone is 717-432-4589. They have a 6 page list of stock
>including
>>1010-1026 tubing, 4130 tubing, carbon steel box tubing, stainless
>tubing,
>>aluminum tubing, 4130 sheet, rod and bar stock, streamlined 4130
>tubing and
>>hardware.
>>
>>Steve W wrote:
>>
>>> Steve wrote:
>>> My wife and I are making plans even as we type here to build the
>Piet and
>>> are planning on (Maybe) building the fuse out of tubing.
>>> What Id like to find is a reasonablely priced source for the
>tubing. We
>>> welcome all suggestions and would like to email with others that
>have
>>> built there birds as cheaply as they could (within safty of
>course)!
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
>>> url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
>>> email= vistin(at)juno.com
>>>
>>> __________
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>********
>>
>>David B.Schober, CPE
>>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>>Fairmont State College
>>National Aerospace Education Center
>>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>>(304) 842-8300
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carlos Javier Ruestes |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Any steel, especially 4130, will actually change physical properties
when heated beyond its melting point.
Flat stock of any shape (angles, sheet, rods, U's, etc, ) are drawn through
mandrels when in the hot, molten, gelatinous state. Right out of the furnace
their molecular alignment is one right beside the other, sort of like rice
kernels just after you've drained the water, in a random, unoriented mix.
When you force the ingots of hot steel through specially shaped openings,
you do two things:1) you create a mechanically advantageous shape for your
structural needs of a material that has homogeneous strength and working
properties in longitudinal direction (with the grain), and slightly less
workability across the grain. 2) the rolling or drawing process actually
realigns the molecules in a linear pattern (one molecule beside another) so
that they resemble short strands of string glued together. Sidebar: this the
difference between cast iron and wrought iron - wrought means to hammer into
long sinuous fibers.
A good analogy for us woodworkers is maple vs.. spruce: mother nature
has already "aligned" spruce fibers in a longitudinal high tension pattern,
which also bends nicely because the fibers microscopically slide past each
other but still maintain contact along the rest of their length.
Maple. on the other hand, is very angular in molecular makeup, boxy shaped,
and is great in compression and resistant to denting (tabletops), but really
pales by comparison in tension because the wood fibre cells have so little
surface area end-to-end to connect to each other, and pop apart easily. Ash
is a good compromise of both compressive and tensile characteristics: it
bends, resists shearing, loads well in compression, has good tensile
strength. But alas, it's a bit heavy -a bummer for Piet builders.
Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the physical
alignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous, unoriented mix of
chromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses the strength gained by
aligning the particles. The bluing is several things: the carbon is being
burned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the other annealing members like
chromium are probably combining with oxygen and changing colors. Torch cut
4130 is harder because its molecules are boxier(like maple) and its makeup
is more resistant to filing which is actually a type of shearing action.
If you were to cut (with the lowest temperature possible) beyond the
bluing region on your work piece, the normal strength and characteristics
would be there.
Well gang, I know this was bit long but I hope it helps.
---Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
>I myself have no refrence on what happens to steel that has been ground too
>hot, but if any one would like to test the theroy, just take two pieces of
>steel, grind one till it turns blue, and then try to cut both with a file.
>
>The blue one will have been hardened by heat, and air. A hrdened part it
>brittle, and subjuct to crackes.
>
>
>>From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0500
>>
>>Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
all
>>of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
>>I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but should
>>be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
>>Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
>>grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
>>spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little more
>>info for reference?
>>-----Original Message-----
>> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
>> Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
>>
>>
>> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
>>from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
>> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
>> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
>>cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
be
>>welded, which will take care of that anyway.
>> walt
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAM & JAN MARINUCCI |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Brian,
Excellent insight you gave us on the properties of grain in 4130 steel as
it applies to our use. I, for one, didn't realize the importance of grain
orientation when fabricating fittings for my Piet but I sure do now. Once
again thanks for the info.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian K. Sanders
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 12:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
> Any steel, especially 4130, will actually change physical properties
>when heated beyond its melting point.
>Flat stock of any shape (angles, sheet, rods, U's, etc, ) are drawn through
>mandrels when in the hot, molten, gelatinous state. Right out of the
furnace
>their molecular alignment is one right beside the other, sort of like rice
>kernels just after you've drained the water, in a random, unoriented mix.
>When you force the ingots of hot steel through specially shaped openings,
>you do two things:1) you create a mechanically advantageous shape for your
>structural needs of a material that has homogeneous strength and working
>properties in longitudinal direction (with the grain), and slightly less
>workability across the grain. 2) the rolling or drawing process actually
>realigns the molecules in a linear pattern (one molecule beside another) so
>that they resemble short strands of string glued together. Sidebar: this
the
>difference between cast iron and wrought iron - wrought means to hammer
into
>long sinuous fibers.
> A good analogy for us woodworkers is maple vs.. spruce: mother nature
>has already "aligned" spruce fibers in a longitudinal high tension pattern,
>which also bends nicely because the fibers microscopically slide past each
>other but still maintain contact along the rest of their length.
>Maple. on the other hand, is very angular in molecular makeup, boxy shaped,
>and is great in compression and resistant to denting (tabletops), but
really
>pales by comparison in tension because the wood fibre cells have so little
>surface area end-to-end to connect to each other, and pop apart easily. Ash
>is a good compromise of both compressive and tensile characteristics: it
>bends, resists shearing, loads well in compression, has good tensile
>strength. But alas, it's a bit heavy -a bummer for Piet builders.
> Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the physical
>alignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous, unoriented mix of
>chromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses the strength gained by
>aligning the particles. The bluing is several things: the carbon is being
>burned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the other annealing members like
>chromium are probably combining with oxygen and changing colors. Torch cut
>4130 is harder because its molecules are boxier(like maple) and its makeup
>is more resistant to filing which is actually a type of shearing action.
> If you were to cut (with the lowest temperature possible) beyond the
>bluing region on your work piece, the normal strength and characteristics
>would be there.
> Well gang, I know this was bit long but I hope it helps.
>---Original Message-----
>From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 1:24 AM
>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>
>
>>I myself have no refrence on what happens to steel that has been ground
too
>>hot, but if any one would like to test the theroy, just take two pieces
of
>>steel, grind one till it turns blue, and then try to cut both with a file.
>>
>>The blue one will have been hardened by heat, and air. A hrdened part it
>>brittle, and subjuct to crackes.
>>
>>
>>>From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
>>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>>>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0500
>>>
>>>Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
>all
>>>of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
>>>I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but
should
>>>be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
>>>Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
>>>grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
>>>spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little
more
>>>info for reference?
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
>>> Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
>>>
>>>
>>> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut
them
>>>from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
>>> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
>>> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
>>>cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
>be
>>>welded, which will take care of that anyway.
>>> walt
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: grain in 4130 sheets |
Brian,
WOW, thanks for the support. I made my fittings with the grain, but I
didn't know there was that much to it.
All makes great sense. thanks
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian K. Sanders
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 12:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
> Any steel, especially 4130, will actually change physical properties
>when heated beyond its melting point.
>Flat stock of any shape (angles, sheet, rods, U's, etc, ) are drawn through
>mandrels when in the hot, molten, gelatinous state. Right out of the
furnace
>their molecular alignment is one right beside the other, sort of like rice
>kernels just after you've drained the water, in a random, unoriented mix.
>When you force the ingots of hot steel through specially shaped openings,
>you do two things:1) you create a mechanically advantageous shape for your
>structural needs of a material that has homogeneous strength and working
>properties in longitudinal direction (with the grain), and slightly less
>workability across the grain. 2) the rolling or drawing process actually
>realigns the molecules in a linear pattern (one molecule beside another) so
>that they resemble short strands of string glued together. Sidebar: this
the
>difference between cast iron and wrought iron - wrought means to hammer
into
>long sinuous fibers.
> A good analogy for us woodworkers is maple vs.. spruce: mother nature
>has already "aligned" spruce fibers in a longitudinal high tension pattern,
>which also bends nicely because the fibers microscopically slide past each
>other but still maintain contact along the rest of their length.
>Maple. on the other hand, is very angular in molecular makeup, boxy shaped,
>and is great in compression and resistant to denting (tabletops), but
really
>pales by comparison in tension because the wood fibre cells have so little
>surface area end-to-end to connect to each other, and pop apart easily. Ash
>is a good compromise of both compressive and tensile characteristics: it
>bends, resists shearing, loads well in compression, has good tensile
>strength. But alas, it's a bit heavy -a bummer for Piet builders.
> Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the physical
>alignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous, unoriented mix of
>chromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses the strength gained by
>aligning the particles. The bluing is several things: the carbon is being
>burned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the other annealing members like
>chromium are probably combining with oxygen and changing colors. Torch cut
>4130 is harder because its molecules are boxier(like maple) and its makeup
>is more resistant to filing which is actually a type of shearing action.
> If you were to cut (with the lowest temperature possible) beyond the
>bluing region on your work piece, the normal strength and characteristics
>would be there.
> Well gang, I know this was bit long but I hope it helps.
>---Original Message-----
>From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 1:24 AM
>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>
>
>>I myself have no refrence on what happens to steel that has been ground
too
>>hot, but if any one would like to test the theroy, just take two pieces
of
>>steel, grind one till it turns blue, and then try to cut both with a file.
>>
>>The blue one will have been hardened by heat, and air. A hrdened part it
>>brittle, and subjuct to crackes.
>>
>>
>>>From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
>>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>>>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0500
>>>
>>>Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
>all
>>>of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
>>>I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but
should
>>>be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
>>>Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
>>>grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
>>>spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little
more
>>>info for reference?
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
>>> Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
>>>
>>>
>>> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut
them
>>>from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
>>> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
>>> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
>>>cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
>be
>>>welded, which will take care of that anyway.
>>> walt
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Brian,
Thanks for such a concise and understandable explanation on metal grain. I
have never grasped this before now. Have printed this for inclusion in my
project notebook. Just another great benefit from this group.
Cheers,
Warren
"Brian K. Sanders" wrote:
> Any steel, especially 4130, will actually change physical properties
> when heated beyond its melting point.
> Flat stock of any shape (angles, sheet, rods, U's, etc, ) are drawn through
> mandrels when in the hot, molten, gelatinous state. Right out of the furnace
> their molecular alignment is one right beside the other, sort of like rice
> kernels just after you've drained the water, in a random, unoriented mix.
> When you force the ingots of hot steel through specially shaped openings,
> you do two things:1) you create a mechanically advantageous shape for your
> structural needs of a material that has homogeneous strength and working
> properties in longitudinal direction (with the grain), and slightly less
> workability across the grain. 2) the rolling or drawing process actually
> realigns the molecules in a linear pattern (one molecule beside another) so
> that they resemble short strands of string glued together. Sidebar: this the
> difference between cast iron and wrought iron - wrought means to hammer into
> long sinuous fibers.
> A good analogy for us woodworkers is maple vs.. spruce: mother nature
> has already "aligned" spruce fibers in a longitudinal high tension pattern,
> which also bends nicely because the fibers microscopically slide past each
> other but still maintain contact along the rest of their length.
> Maple. on the other hand, is very angular in molecular makeup, boxy shaped,
> and is great in compression and resistant to denting (tabletops), but really
> pales by comparison in tension because the wood fibre cells have so little
> surface area end-to-end to connect to each other, and pop apart easily. Ash
> is a good compromise of both compressive and tensile characteristics: it
> bends, resists shearing, loads well in compression, has good tensile
> strength. But alas, it's a bit heavy -a bummer for Piet builders.
> Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the physical
> alignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous, unoriented mix of
> chromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses the strength gained by
> aligning the particles. The bluing is several things: the carbon is being
> burned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the other annealing members like
> chromium are probably combining with oxygen and changing colors. Torch cut
> 4130 is harder because its molecules are boxier(like maple) and its makeup
> is more resistant to filing which is actually a type of shearing action.
> If you were to cut (with the lowest temperature possible) beyond the
> bluing region on your work piece, the normal strength and characteristics
> would be there.
> Well gang, I know this was bit long but I hope it helps.
> ---Original Message-----
> From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 1:24 AM
> Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>
> >I myself have no refrence on what happens to steel that has been ground too
> >hot, but if any one would like to test the theroy, just take two pieces of
> >steel, grind one till it turns blue, and then try to cut both with a file.
> >
> >The blue one will have been hardened by heat, and air. A hrdened part it
> >brittle, and subjuct to crackes.
> >
> >
> >>From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
> >>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
> >>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:16:04 -0500
> >>
> >>Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have read
> all
> >>of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
> >>I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but should
> >>be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
> >>Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
> >>grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
> >>spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a little more
> >>info for reference?
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
> >> Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
> >>
> >>
> >> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
> >>from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
> >> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
> >> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
> >>cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it will
> be
> >>welded, which will take care of that anyway.
> >> walt
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Are the turnbuckles in the BPA still available?
>From: Phil Phillips
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:29:19 -0700
>
>look in the for sale section of the BPA web site and you will find an
>advertisement for turnbuckles at $6.00 each. They are new surplus and are
>just what you want.
>Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Dear Builders,
Do I understand correctly that bar-stock has the grain running
lengthways and should not concern myself with grain when cutting
fittings from such? Also, if I purchase sheet-goods and shear 1"or 5/8"
strips from them, the strips should be running the same direction as the
printing? Is there ever a visible grain. I ask in earnest.
Dannymac
walter evans wrote:
>
> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
> from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
> cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it
> will be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
> walt
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Group,
How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
Again, ignorant in Texas.
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Fabric Cleaning Solution |
Say Gang,
My plane has Ceconite fabric. It has not been cleaned for
quite some time. What method of cleaning or solution would
you recommend to use to get off oil and mildew looking spots?
Thanks.....
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Danny;
The weight of fabric used is dependent on the speed or use of the plane.
DC3 ailerons, crop dusters use the 3.? oz., Stearman, Wacos the 2.7 oz and
our putt putts use the 1.7 oz. My Stits Manual has the real breakdowns. I
will get back to you with specifics as soon as I can unless one of the other
guys beats me to it. Some of the older planes used heavier fabric on the
fuselage because of the "beating" it took with the propwash..........within
the propwash area of the wing, you have to decrease the spacing of the rib
stitching for the same reason.....again specifics later. CAM 18 has all this
jazz in it as well (AC43.13b too).
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric
>Dear Group,
>
> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
>the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
>lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
>would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
>prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
>it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
>at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
>planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
>properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>
>Again, ignorant in Texas.
>
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Danny,
You may want to go to
http://www.polyfiber.com
as a good place to start. From here you can buy the manual and get answers to
questions that you haven't even thought of yet...{;~)
Cheers,
Warren
Earl Myers wrote:
> Danny;
> The weight of fabric used is dependent on the speed or use of the plane.
> DC3 ailerons, crop dusters use the 3.? oz., Stearman, Wacos the 2.7 oz and
> our putt putts use the 1.7 oz. My Stits Manual has the real breakdowns. I
> will get back to you with specifics as soon as I can unless one of the other
> guys beats me to it. Some of the older planes used heavier fabric on the
> fuselage because of the "beating" it took with the propwash..........within
> the propwash area of the wing, you have to decrease the spacing of the rib
> stitching for the same reason.....again specifics later. CAM 18 has all this
> jazz in it as well (AC43.13b too).
> Earl Myers
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:56 PM
> Subject: fabric
>
> >Dear Group,
> >
> > How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
> >aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
> >the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
> >lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
> >would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
> > Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
> >prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
> >it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
> >at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
> >planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
> >properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
> >
> >Again, ignorant in Texas.
> >
> >Dannymac
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
For turnbuckles, try-Joe Czaplicki. e-mail address: fishin(at)wwa.com
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Thanks Brian, for the description of how steels are affected by heat.
I may however disagree with your statement, " When you heat steel past
its melting point", temperatures well below the melting point become
"critical" when working with steel.
Steels generally, are heat treatable they will harden and become
more brittle when cooled quickly from their critical temperatures. Still
below the melting point. Interestingly they loose the ability to be
attracted to a magnet at these elevated temperatures as the molecules at
those temperatures are not in any particular alignment.
They can be made softer and and more ductile by controlled heating and
cooling at temperatures well below their melting point. The reason that
we post heat and cool the welds slowly. (see tempering and annealing)
The point is that we should take every effort to follow the steel
manufacturer's recommended practices when working with steel alloys.
(BTW all steels are alloys and the differing ingredients,( 41xx series
steels are alloyed with Chromium and Molybdenum), are what make the
steel suitable for each application.)
I would recommend that we as builders follow established building
practices. A trip to the library should turn up a few good reference
texts on the steels and other metals used in our hobby.
After all, the reasons we are allowed to build our own aircraft (at
least in Canada) are recreation and education.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian K. Sanders
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
> Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the
physical
>alignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous, unoriented mix
of
>chromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses the strength gained by
>aligning the particles. The bluing is several things: the carbon is
being
>burned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the other annealing members like
>chromium are probably combining with oxygen and changing colors. Torch
cut
>4130 is harder because its molecules are boxier(like maple) and its
makeup
>is more resistant to filing which is actually a type of shearing
action.
> If you were to cut (with the lowest temperature possible) beyond
the
>bluing region on your work piece, the normal strength and
characteristics
>would be there.
> Well gang, I know this was bit long but I hope it helps.
Thanks Brian, for the description of how steels are affected by
heat.
I may however disagree with your statement, When
you
heat steel past its melting point, temperatures well below
the
melting point become critical when working with steel.
Steels generally, are heat treatable they will
harden
and become more brittle when cooled quickly from their critical
temperatures.
Still below the melting point. Interestingly they loose the
ability to
be attracted to a magnet at these elevated temperatures as the molecules
at
those temperatures are not in any particular alignment.
They can be made softer and and more ductile by controlled heating
and
cooling at temperatures well below their melting point. The reason
that we
post heat and cool the welds slowly. (see tempering and
annealing)
The point is that we should take every effort to follow the steel
manufacturer's recommended practices when working with steel
alloys.
(BTW all steels are alloys and the differing ingredients,(
41xx
series steels are alloyed with Chromium and Molybdenum), are what make
the steel
suitable for each application.)
I would recommend that we as builders follow established building
practices. A trip to the library should turn up a few good reference
texts on
the steels and other metals used in our hobby.
After all, the reasons we are allowed to build our own
aircraft (at
least in Canada) are recreation and education.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----From:
Brian K.
Sanders
:
Pietenpol Discussion
20, 1999
10:12 AMSubject: Re: grain in 4130
sheets
Back to 4130. When you heat steel past its melting point the
physicalalignment of molecules changes back to the gelatinous,
unoriented mix ofchromium, iron, carbon, nickel, etc.. and loses
the
strength gained byaligning the particles. The bluing is several
things:
the carbon is beingburned out, the iron is oxidizing, and the
other
annealing members likechromium are probably combining with
oxygen and
changing colors. Torch cut4130 is harder because its molecules
are
boxier(like maple) and its makeupis more resistant to filing
which is
actually a type of shearing action. If you
were to cut
(with the lowest temperature possible) beyond thebluing region
on your
work piece, the normal strength and characteristicswould be
there. Well gang, I know this was bit long but
I hope
it helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
Truly Thanks Warren,
This site answered many, MANY of my questions. I'm still curious
about the fabric.......I guess compared to the gallons of different
coats that are required, the cost of the actual fabric is nominal.
Thanks again warren, and you too, Earl. My name's not Jimmy but I'll
take all you'll........you know.
Dannymac
Warren Shoun wrote:
>
> Danny,
> You may want to go to
> http://www.polyfiber.com
> as a good place to start. From here you can buy the manual and get answers
to
> questions that you haven't even thought of yet...{;~)
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> Earl Myers wrote:
>
> > Danny;
> > The weight of fabric used is dependent on the speed or use of the plane.
> > DC3 ailerons, crop dusters use the 3.? oz., Stearman, Wacos the 2.7 oz and
> > our putt putts use the 1.7 oz. My Stits Manual has the real breakdowns. I
> > will get back to you with specifics as soon as I can unless one of the other
> > guys beats me to it. Some of the older planes used heavier fabric on the
> > fuselage because of the "beating" it took with the propwash..........within
> > the propwash area of the wing, you have to decrease the spacing of the rib
> > stitching for the same reason.....again specifics later. CAM 18 has all this
> > jazz in it as well (AC43.13b too).
> > Earl Myers
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:56 PM
> > Subject: fabric
> >
> > >Dear Group,
> > >
> > > How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
> > >aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
> > >the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
> > >lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
> > >would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
> > > Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
> > >prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
> > >it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
> > >at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
> > >planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
> > >properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
> > >
> > >Again, ignorant in Texas.
> > >
> > >Dannymac
> > >
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
What a weekend! I took Friday off so I could have all that day and
Saturday to work on my Piet (and my wife saw to it that I got most of
Sunday too!) and man, did I get a lot done! I went from two fuselage
sides on Friday to an actual fuselage sitting in my shop on Sunday.
http://www.aircamper.org/users/rdecosta/MyProgress.cfm
It is very satisfying after so many months to see a fuselage you can
_almost_ sit in!
Let me say one thing for those of you trying to avoid nails in your
fuse: GET A TON OF CLAMPS! Get as many as you can! You'll need them! I
have only 12, and I used every one of them every time I glued anything!
Keep pluggin' away people! I never thought I'd see mine this far, but
here I am!
Richard
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clamps & glue, Re: progress |
Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
maintained you're home cheap.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
Greetings group,
I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question
for the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider
mag. complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate?
Will I be ok to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had
thought of souping up but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand
new in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured
around 1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick
and they confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft
version, just different color. They come with timing instructions and
hold down fittings. Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I
think for $15.00 a piece, these will make a great ignition source.
Email me if interested.
Keep up the chatter. Chad.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: How much?
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:06:56 -0500
Steve wrote:
I cant remember the fellows name but he cuts the wood for the Piet. Does
anyone know the prices of his wood and maybe the prices of individual
packages, such as the wing ribs ETC!
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets |
>Sir;
> Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look for
>around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the grain or agin'
>it...?"
>Earl Myers
I concur here with Earl and even if the FAA boys don't ask you this,
you will sleep better at night if you follow the suggested patterns as
shown in Tony Bingelis's books and other publications.
The grain goes with the printing on both sheet alum. and 4130 sheet.
Also file out ALL your saw marks on the edges of every fitting filing
long wise on the fitting edges, not perpendicular. Corners should be
radiused too- easy to do inside corners by drilling the corner first, then
cutting to that point.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet owners and builders |
Also found that the disk sander is the best for making indentical parts in
stacks such as the spar fittings (4 ea.).
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet owners and builders
>And my $.02....
>
>Use a benchtop belt sander with a course belt to finish shape 4130. You'll
>be amazed how well it works. Cut to 1/16" or so outside the line and then
>sand it down.
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sayre, William G <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 12:58 PM
>Subject: RE: Piet owners and builders
>
>
>>
>> "I have done a little cutting with a "metal cutting" blade in the jigsaw,
>it's pretty slow going and awkward."
>>
>>My 2 cents - I find that Bi-metal blades really make a difference (in a
>jigsaw) but are more expensive. I too utilize the tip of grinding the
blade
>away behind the leading edge (making a skinny blade) when I want a blade
>that makes good sharp turns while cutting (go slow and don't overheat the
>blade!). Unmodified blades work best for straight lines.
>>
>>Ultimately, I use a metal cutting band-saw or if the part is too big I'll
>rough it out with a jigsaw, finish cuts on the band-saw, then if necessary
>grind or file to finish. Final step is to de-burr with a file.
>>
>>I have found more uses than I thought I would for my hand-held disk
grinder
>also. Especially useful if you need to tack pieces together (gas-weld) and
>separate later. Careful application of the grinder works great. Cutting
>off frozen nuts or bolt-heads, grinding smooth and then punching bolts out
>has been proven useful also (Other projects obviously).
>>
>>Whatever that's worth.
>>
>>Bill Sayre
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
Hi Walt,
Thanks for the info. I have seen that picture before! very interesting!
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 8:59 PM
Subject: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
Mike,
I've always been impressed with the experience of my AP. He's
an old guy who's been doing this for years. His "rule" is to make the
bracket length with the grain. I guess it would be like making a 2x4
with the grain going across the board. Wouldn't be very strong. And
always bend across the grain. Also any "quick" heat on 4130 causes
brittleness, which could come from a grinder,(torch cutting is a no-no)
if you ever tried to file 4130 at a torch cut, you'll see its harder
than the file.
I just figure if I'm going to make the bracket, I'll make it like
the pros.
walt
PS If you ever saw the picture on one of the Pietenpol sites ,
taken at Brodhead, showing a guy running an engine on a stand.
This AP is the guy that took that engine, with a single throw
crankshaft, and made a double throw crank (from a block of steel)
rebuilt it , and you see it run. He 's building another crank now.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
Walt, I have not heard of this. As a newbie to homebuilding I have
read all of Tony B's books and most of the EAA stuff.
I can remember reading that grain doesn't matter in flat pieces but
should be perpendicular to any bends whenever possible.
Also haven't seen anything before about normalizing fittings after
grinding. Some of my fittings did get those little brownish
spots on the edges where I got em a little hot. Can you give a
little more info for reference?
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 11:29 AM
Subject: grain in 4130 sheets
Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut
them from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel
can cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it
will be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Dear Group,
>
> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>aircraft?
Danny- I used 1.7 oz dacron on my Piet and the old dope process.
LIGHT, light light !! Keep it light whatever you do and you'll be able
to take your fat uncle for that ride he always wanted !
Mike C. (ps...I'm not skinny myself !)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Group-
Dacron is dacron is dacron. They call it poly this and Superflight that,
and Razorback this, but after talking with them all, it ALL comes from
one mill and gets stamped by whoever buys it and re-sells it to you.
I personally purchased the uncertified dacron 1.7 oz from Superflight
because it came in 72" wide rolls and that way I could 'overlap' my
wing top and bottom instead of sewing and envelope. Same stuff
as the certified, just not stamped as such. Osh is a very neat place
to ask these vendors all your questions. I just walked from one to the
next, to the next and was surprised at some answers.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Anyone going to Oshkosh can learn to ribstitch for free at the
Polyfiber tent. They have a tutor there who will guide you thru
the right way to do this process. We took a video camera and
recorded this so by the time it came to do the plane we could
refresh our memory. They also lecture and demonstrate the other
fabric covering steps. I really liked covering best of all the other
parts of building the Piet. (had never covered before). Maybe it
was the fumes from the MEK and buterayte dope, I dunno.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
Chad, Do you know which aircraft or aircraft engine these Slick mags were
intended for? Also, how can I purchase one or two of these mags? Thanks.
Randall Reihing
>Greetings group,
>
>I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question
for the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider mag.
complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate? Will I be
ok to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had thought of souping
up but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
> Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand
new in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured
around 1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick and
they confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft
version, just different color. They come with timing instructions and hold
down fittings. Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I think for
$15.00 a piece, these will make a great ignition source. Email me if
interested.
>Keep up the chatter. Chad.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Bell [SMTP:mbell(at)sctcorp.com]
>Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:17 AM
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Clamps & glue, Re: progress
>
>
>Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
>one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
>ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
>wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
>between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
>Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
>enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
>"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
>part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
>the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
>maintained you're home cheap.
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\A rebuildMagnetos1"
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
Ken
On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>
> Again, ignorant in Texas.
>
> Dannymac
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
Just to set the record streight, Razorback (Hog Cloth) is fiberglass, not
dacron and is extremely heavy. I wouldn't suggest using it on a Piet.
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Group-
>
> Dacron is dacron is dacron. They call it poly this and Superflight that,
> and Razorback this, but after talking with them all, it ALL comes from
> one mill and gets stamped by whoever buys it and re-sells it to you.
> I personally purchased the uncertified dacron 1.7 oz from Superflight
> because it came in 72" wide rolls and that way I could 'overlap' my
> wing top and bottom instead of sewing and envelope. Same stuff
> as the certified, just not stamped as such. Osh is a very neat place
> to ask these vendors all your questions. I just walked from one to the
> next, to the next and was surprised at some answers.
> Mike C.
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
When you are getting ready to stitch, buy as many long needles as you can
afford. Mark all the holes, punch them with a needle, then start each
needle on a different rib. Pass all of them through to the other side,
walk around and pass them back. For each needle you use, multiply that by
how many stitches per rib and you save that many trips back and forth!
The last airplane I did, Icould stitch a wing panel in about 4 hours
alone.
Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Anyone going to Oshkosh can learn to ribstitch for free at the
> Polyfiber tent. They have a tutor there who will guide you thru
> the right way to do this process. We took a video camera and
> recorded this so by the time it came to do the plane we could
> refresh our memory. They also lecture and demonstrate the other
> fabric covering steps. I really liked covering best of all the other
> parts of building the Piet. (had never covered before). Maybe it
> was the fumes from the MEK and buterayte dope, I dunno.
>
> Mike C.
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: grain in 4130 sheets |
It is "BEST" to cut sheet with the grain for strap type fittings and
especially if you are going to bend them, the bend accross the grain. Most
of the time, the "grain" is easily seen if you tilt the sheet and let light
bounce off of it......and it should go with the lettering. I always buy the
precut strap stuff as it cuts down the butchering time and makes neat cuts
that you don't have much touch up to do.........REMEMBERdannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: grain in 4130 sheets
>Dear Builders,
>
> Do I understand correctly that bar-stock has the grain running
>lengthways and should not concern myself with grain when cutting
>fittings from such? Also, if I purchase sheet-goods and shear 1"or 5/8"
>strips from them, the strips should be running the same direction as the
>printing? Is there ever a visible grain. I ask in earnest.
>
>Dannymac
>
>walter evans wrote:
>>
>> Make sure that when you make brackets and fittings, that you cut them
>> from sheet "with the grain" of the sheet.
>> The grain runs with the printing on the sheet.
>> And any fitting that you cut out with a grinder,where the wheel can
>> cause hot spots, make sure that you normalize the piece. Unless it
>> will be welded, which will take care of that anyway.
>> walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
NOW you tell me!
Ref the conversion plans, I would stay away from the leather disc used as a
flex joint between the Mag and Crank.......when it gets worn, the timing
changes not to mention other things (Leather Corrosion)
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" rebuild/Magnetos
Greetings group,
I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question for
the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider mag.
complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate? Will I be ok
to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had thought of souping up
but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand new
in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured around
1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick and they
confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft version, just
different color. They come with timing instructions and hold down fittings.
Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I think for $15.00 a piece,
these will make a great ignition source. Email me if interested.
Keep up the chatter. Chad.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bell [SMTP:mbell(at)sctcorp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clamps & glue, Re: progress
Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
maintained you're home cheap.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
Chad,
I would be interested in one or two mags also.
Thanks,
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" rebuild/Magnetos
Greetings group,
I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question for
the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider mag.
complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate? Will I be ok
to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had thought of souping up
but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand new
in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured around
1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick and they
confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft version, just
different color. They come with timing instructions and hold down fittings.
Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I think for $15.00 a piece,
these will make a great ignition source. Email me if interested.
Keep up the chatter. Chad.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bell [SMTP:mbell(at)sctcorp.com]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clamps & glue, Re: progress
Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
maintained you're home cheap.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
DANNYMAC!
Here is the correct answer! I used 1.7 on my Scout as the wing is nearly as
big as the AC but the plane is much lighter (till I cram in it)
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fabric
>It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
>right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
>Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
>talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
>almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
>reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
>where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
>either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
>a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
>Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
>what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
>most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
>heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
>you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
>generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
>
>Ken
>
>On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
>> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
>> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
>> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
>> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
>> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
>> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
>> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
>> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
>> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>>
>> Again, ignorant in Texas.
>>
>> Dannymac
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
Hello again group.
I have had a large response to the magnetos I mentioned earlier so I
will post the source here. Yes they really are $14.95 US. I sent a
personal check to : Army Surplus Warehouse, 635 w. Broadway, P.O. Box
1523, Idaho Falls, ID. 83403, 208-529-4753. I opened one of mine
and compared it side by side with a Slick taken from a Cont. O-200.
Most part numbers are the same. Only slight differences in the case. I
talked directly with Slick and they confirmed the quality. Niether they
nor the supplier knows what type of engine these mags fit but that it
was most likely a GPU (Ground Power Unit). They come brand new, sealed
in the box. For 15.00 bucks it might be worth your money to find out if
they would work for you. To be clear, I am not the supplier, I just
wanted to pass along a possible bargin. Let me know what you think.
Chad
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Re: Fw: Dacron
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:24:55 -0400
>
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:23:30 -0400
> To: "Earl Myers"
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> Subject: Re: Fw: Dacron
>
> >YO!
> > Ah think Razorcrap is fiberglass, no? Weighs a ton too
> >
>
> Thanks Earl, Ken.....as I wrote that I wondered in my head
> if that was that fiberglass method or not !
>
> If I could add one more thing about the light grade or 1.7 oz
> dacron- no only is is light and plenty strong for a Piet or Scout
> but it is way easier to work with, the weave is fine so you need
> less coats to fill the weave if you want a glossy finish.
> You have to watch your iron temperatures though and don't get
> that light bulb too close- I burned a hole right thru in 2 seconds
> with a light bulb when I didn't realize I had it touching the fabric.
> Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov |
YO!
Ah think Razorcrap is fiberglass, no? Weighs a ton too
Thanks Earl, Ken.....as I wrote that I wondered in my head
if that was that fiberglass method or not !
If I could add one more thing about the light grade or 1.7 oz
dacron- no only is is light and plenty strong for a Piet or Scout
but it is way easier to work with, the weave is fine so you
need
less coats to fill the weave if you want a glossy finish.
You have to watch your iron temperatures though and don't get
that light bulb too close- I burned a hole right thru in 2 seconds
with a light bulb when I didn't realize I had it touching the
fabric.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
There have been several comments on fabric here which were clearly
false such as "dacron is dacron is dacron" & " Razorback weighs a
ton", and at least one comment suggesting that Stits was a "dope"
process.
First of all.... Dacron varies considerably from one source to
another.... weave, density and some less obvious differences.
Commercial Dacron cloth may contain "sizing" materials which are
lubricants used in the manufacturing process which may well be
detrimental to dope adhesion. Thus you should never purchase dacron
from Sears or someplace like that as you have no idea what
contaminants it might contain. Purchase aircraft fabric only!! The
cost difference isnt' all that much.
Stits is not a Dope process.... it is a polyester process from
what I understand (I've never used it)
Razorback is not inherently heavy.... Razorback is in excess of
200 times as strong as the original grade A cotton used on aircraft of
the same weight. Razorback is available in some very light weights,
and can be finished out to weights competetive with Stits according to
company literature. Razorback is virtually indestructable as it is
not subject to UV degradation. It will outlast virtually any
aircraft. Razorback is also impervious to chemicals which makes it
popular for fabric covered crop dusters. Maule used Razorback, and I
have handled samples of this fabric is finished condition and found it
to of quite acceptable weight. The strength of the Razorback cloth
may well allow you to use light weight fabric such as 1.7 oz where 3
oz dacron would be required.... the result could be a net loss of
total weight.
Many Stits lovers spread false and misleading info about Razorback
and other processes...... don't believe everything you hear. This
stuff is picked up and passed from one person to the next as if it
were fact..... which it is not.
<><><><><><><>< Razorback contact info ><><><><><><><>
RAZORBACK FABRICS, INC.
2179 Elmotn Road
Maynard, AR 72444
(870) 647-2622
Contact Robert Little at: razorbac(at)tcac.net
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Don't believe everything you hear.... Razorback is an excellent
product.... some of the Stits lovers have an axe to grind.
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Fw: Dacron |
>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:23:30 -0400
>> To: "Earl Myers"
>> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>> Subject: Re: Fw: Dacron
>>
>> >YO!
>> > Ah think Razorcrap is fiberglass, no? Weighs a ton too
>> >
>>
>> Thanks Earl, Ken.....as I wrote that I wondered in my head
>> if that was that fiberglass method or not !
>>
>> If I could add one more thing about the light grade or 1.7 oz
>> dacron- no only is is light and plenty strong for a Piet or Scout
>> but it is way easier to work with, the weave is fine so you need
>> less coats to fill the weave if you want a glossy finish.
>> You have to watch your iron temperatures though and don't get
>> that light bulb too close- I burned a hole right thru in 2 seconds
>> with a light bulb when I didn't realize I had it touching the
fabric.
>> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | piano hinge (again) gasp! |
Dear Group,
Remember when I asked about the piano hinge on the tail surfaces?
Well, let me run this past you and please tell me what you think.
I am considering splitting the trailing edge of the hor-stab and the
leading edge of the elev and sandwiching the hinge in with bolts. Having
not a hinge in my posession, I can only estimate a 3/16" to 1/4" gap
that can be wrapped with sheet rubber much like a strip of innertube.
This would leave a clean contrasting mating that may also have some
sealing effect. Being that this would be aluminum hinge, I think I would
run the lengths of the surfaces for safety's sake and not use several
pieces of hinge that would allow me to keep these wooden pieces whole
and only slotted. Same with the rudder, only more ruddery. What say you
all?
Dannymac: Experimental Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
Thanks so very very much Howard,
And thank you all. This is what it's all about! Making a poor
decision in this area might not be evident for a couple-a-few years.
Dannymac
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
> There have been several comments on fabric here which were clearly
> false such as "dacron is dacron is dacron" & " Razorback weighs a
> ton", and at least one comment suggesting that Stits was a "dope"
> process.
> First of all.... Dacron varies considerably from one source to
> another.... weave, density and some less obvious differences.
> Commercial Dacron cloth may contain "sizing" materials which are
> lubricants used in the manufacturing process which may well be
> detrimental to dope adhesion. Thus you should never purchase dacron
> from Sears or someplace like that as you have no idea what
> contaminants it might contain. Purchase aircraft fabric only!! The
> cost difference isnt' all that much.
> Stits is not a Dope process.... it is a polyester process from
> what I understand (I've never used it)
> Razorback is not inherently heavy.... Razorback is in excess of
> 200 times as strong as the original grade A cotton used on aircraft of
> the same weight. Razorback is available in some very light weights,
> and can be finished out to weights competetive with Stits according to
> company literature. Razorback is virtually indestructable as it is
> not subject to UV degradation. It will outlast virtually any
> aircraft. Razorback is also impervious to chemicals which makes it
> popular for fabric covered crop dusters. Maule used Razorback, and I
> have handled samples of this fabric is finished condition and found it
> to of quite acceptable weight. The strength of the Razorback cloth
> may well allow you to use light weight fabric such as 1.7 oz where 3
> oz dacron would be required.... the result could be a net loss of
> total weight.
> Many Stits lovers spread false and misleading info about Razorback
> and other processes...... don't believe everything you hear. This
> stuff is picked up and passed from one person to the next as if it
> were fact..... which it is not.
>
> <><><><><><><>< Razorback contact info ><><><><><><><>
>
> RAZORBACK FABRICS, INC.
> 2179 Elmotn Road
> Maynard, AR 72444
> (870) 647-2622
>
> Contact Robert Little at: razorbac(at)tcac.net
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> Don't believe everything you hear.... Razorback is an excellent
> product.... some of the Stits lovers have an axe to grind.
>
> H.W.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:29 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Re: Fw: Dacron
>
> >
> >>
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:23:30 -0400
> >> To: "Earl Myers"
> >> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> >> Subject: Re: Fw: Dacron
> >>
> >> >YO!
> >> > Ah think Razorcrap is fiberglass, no? Weighs a ton too
> >> >
> >>
> >> Thanks Earl, Ken.....as I wrote that I wondered in my head
> >> if that was that fiberglass method or not !
> >>
> >> If I could add one more thing about the light grade or 1.7 oz
> >> dacron- no only is is light and plenty strong for a Piet or Scout
> >> but it is way easier to work with, the weave is fine so you need
> >> less coats to fill the weave if you want a glossy finish.
> >> You have to watch your iron temperatures though and don't get
> >> that light bulb too close- I burned a hole right thru in 2 seconds
> >> with a light bulb when I didn't realize I had it touching the
> fabric.
> >> Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
if it helps any,,the following is taken from "Aircraft Dope & Fabric" 2nd
Edition;
Razorback is a pre-treated fibreglass cloth finished out with butyrate
dope..Stitts is a square weave Dacron finished with resin compounds especially
developed for use on Dacron..Ceconite is a Dacron cloth finished with nitrate and
butyrate dope...Eonnex is a pre-treated Dacron that is finished with only three
coates of specially developed water-based emulsions..
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
"David B. Schober" wrote:
> Just to set the record streight, Razorback (Hog Cloth) is fiberglass, not
> dacron and is extremely heavy. I wouldn't suggest using it on a Piet.
>
> Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> > Group-
> >
> > Dacron is dacron is dacron. They call it poly this and Superflight that,
> > and Razorback this, but after talking with them all, it ALL comes from
> > one mill and gets stamped by whoever buys it and re-sells it to you.
> > I personally purchased the uncertified dacron 1.7 oz from Superflight
> > because it came in 72" wide rolls and that way I could 'overlap' my
> > wing top and bottom instead of sewing and envelope. Same stuff
> > as the certified, just not stamped as such. Osh is a very neat place
> > to ask these vendors all your questions. I just walked from one to the
> > next, to the next and was surprised at some answers.
> > Mike C.
>
> --
>
>
> David B.Schober, CPE
> Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
> Fairmont State College
> National Aerospace Education Center
> 1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
> Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
> (304) 842-8300
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Anyone going to Oshkosh can learn to ribstitch for free at the
> Polyfiber tent. They have a tutor there who will guide you thru
> the right way to do this process. We took a video camera and
> recorded this so by the time it came to do the plane we could
> refresh our memory. They also lecture and demonstrate the other
> fabric covering steps. I really liked covering best of all the other
> parts of building the Piet. (had never covered before). Maybe it
> was the fumes from the MEK and buterayte dope, I dunno.
>
> Mike C.
Mike,
For those of us way down south or out west that may not be able to make
Oshkosh, Polyfiber goes to Sun N Fun with a tent and workshop , too.
That'll be in April.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
Oh, esxpusure tooo theee fummmes frooom thhhe chemmicals wooont efffect
yooou, likke mmmakinnng yyyyou fforget what kkkeys yyyou hhavve tttyped iin.
Get a resperator, even to watch a demo of this stuff. Nitrate, Butrate, MEK
(Methel Ethel Keytone- which is also used as a composite hardener) are some
of the worst commonly available chemicals known, and they are cumulative in
effect. You can get sensitized to them, and once you do your airplane
finishing/ repairing career is over for life. I personally insist on "full"
gear (resperator, gloves and tyveks), but then I used to work with
composites full time so already have a good dose of them.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:31 AM
> Anyone going to Oshkosh can learn to ribstitch for free at the
> Polyfiber tent. They have a tutor there who will guide you thru
> the right way to do this process. We took a video camera and
> recorded this so by the time it came to do the plane we could
> refresh our memory. They also lecture and demonstrate the other
> fabric covering steps. I really liked covering best of all the other
> parts of building the Piet. (had never covered before). Maybe it
> was the fumes from the MEK and buterayte dope, I dunno.
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
At least those other guys know what day it is
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Hi Guys
Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as the
401 and Highbury.
About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe GT
with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of about
16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc trail
bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried to
use them).
We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the damage
was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see some
Piets.
Wrong.
Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE full
leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in the
chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm 6'2",
190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
but basically a nice guy)
About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in 6
weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop his
doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's my
fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've ever
watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably a
bad idea.
On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i suspect
it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
See ya next time
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
Is it just possible that some guys would rather enjoy a discussion about
aircraft, than worry about the date stamp on their computer ?
Is it also possibe, that some guys have deliberatly set their date stamp
wrong to mislead cookies from some less than scrupulous sites?
And if it's THEIR system, and not harming you, why worry about it ?
I dont even look at the date.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 6:20 PM
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
> At least those other guys know what day it is
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: test - just checking! |
Test!
Sorry guys but I've sent several messages the last day or two and
SILENCE..... Do I have bad breath??? B.O.? ;>)
Really, I've had a slow/shakey ISP recently.
Happy Aviating.
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I too was wary about covering. As someone said earlier, it's the most
rewarding part of the building. After hearing everyone discuss "auto paint
", with some advice I settled on " Stits Process"( not really Stits, now its
Poly Fiber, since being bought out by , I think, Aircraft Spruce). This is
the way I'll go for the Air Camper. It went on beautifully, and all of the
layers applied just like they were supposed to. I don;t know what auto
paint sells for a gallon, but Poli Fiber was ( for the non reds) about
$45.00 a gal. Two weeks ago I spent $32.00 a QUART for auto paint for a
Ford Tempo.
Get the Poli Fiber manual for $10.00 from the mail order places. It's
great reading, and easy to understand. Used to be dry, like an FAA
document, now it has processes, hints, and normal pittfalls. and alot of
pictures, great for us non experts. Explaines all of the layers, and the
simplicity of the process. And it won't crack in three years, like auto
paint>
Also has step by step lesson for rib stiching( this is where I learned
mined) You won't regreat buying it.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fabric
>It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
>right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
>Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
>talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
>almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
>reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
>where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
>either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
>a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
>Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
>what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
>most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
>heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
>you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
>generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
>
>Ken
>
>On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
>> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
>> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
>> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
>> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
>> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
>> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
>> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
>> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
>> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>>
>> Again, ignorant in Texas.
>>
>> Dannymac
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: test - just checking! |
Yer working fine up here (sprint.ca server)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:29 PM
| Subject: | Re: test - just checking! |
> Test!
> Sorry guys but I've sent several messages the last day or two and
> SILENCE..... Do I have bad breath??? B.O.? ;>)
> Really, I've had a slow/shakey ISP recently.
>
> Happy Aviating.
> Bert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A" rebuild/Magnetos
Greetings group,
I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question for
the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider mag.
complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate? Will I be ok
to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had thought of souping up
but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
That was Bernard's idea!
Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand new
in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured around
1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick and they
confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft version, just
different color. They come with timing instructions and hold down fittings.
Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I think for $15.00 a piece,
these will make a great ignition source. Email me if interested.
Keep up the chatter. Chad.
Chad,
The mag installation on the model A as per the early magazine articles
used a mag with a reduction drive. It is direct drive at crankshaft speed.
The Slick mags are intended to be driven from the engines accessory drives
at i/2 crank speed or camshaft speed. Great price though!
You might be able to adapt them to the distributor drive out of the top of
the head or from the end of the cam howevr that would change the rotation.
The antique tractor guys are likely to have a crankspeed mag or know where
to get one. Know any of them in your area?
As for the rest of the engine mods just follow the plans it works as is.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal(at)earthlink.net> |
For what it's worth, my buddy and I are just about through refinishing his 1-26
(glider) with PolyFiber.
It's good stuff, the book's great, it all works right and looks fantastic.
LLN
walter evans wrote:
> I too was wary about covering. As someone said earlier, it's the most
> rewarding part of the building. After hearing everyone discuss "auto paint
> ", with some advice I settled on " Stits Process"( not really Stits, now its
> Poly Fiber, since being bought out by , I think, Aircraft Spruce). This is
> the way I'll go for the Air Camper. It went on beautifully, and all of the
> layers applied just like they were supposed to. I don;t know what auto
> paint sells for a gallon, but Poli Fiber was ( for the non reds) about
> $45.00 a gal. Two weeks ago I spent $32.00 a QUART for auto paint for a
> Ford Tempo.
> Get the Poli Fiber manual for $10.00 from the mail order places. It's
> great reading, and easy to understand. Used to be dry, like an FAA
> document, now it has processes, hints, and normal pittfalls. and alot of
> pictures, great for us non experts. Explaines all of the layers, and the
> simplicity of the process. And it won't crack in three years, like auto
> paint>
> Also has step by step lesson for rib stiching( this is where I learned
> mined) You won't regreat buying it.
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:42 AM
> Subject: Re: fabric
>
> >It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
> >right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
> >Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
> >talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
> >almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
> >reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
> >where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
> >either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
> >a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
> >Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
> >what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
> >most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
> >heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
> >you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
> >generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Group,
> >>
> >> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
> >> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
> >> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
> >> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
> >> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
> >> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
> >> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
> >> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
> >> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
> >> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
> >> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
> >>
> >> Again, ignorant in Texas.
> >>
> >> Dannymac
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Were you in Canada or the U.S.?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
>Hi Guys
>
>Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as the
>401 and Highbury.
>
>About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe
GT
>with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of about
>16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc
trail
>bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried to
>use them).
>
>We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the
damage
>was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see some
>Piets.
>
>Wrong.
>
>Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
>wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE
full
>leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in
the
>chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm
6'2",
>190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
>but basically a nice guy)
>
>About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in 6
>weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
>hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
>
>NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop his
>doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's my
>fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've
ever
>watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably a
>bad idea.
>
>On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i suspect
>it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
>
>So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
>besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
>
>See ya next time
>
>Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
My date has been reset several times, and for some reason it
periodically changes itself..... I've gotten in the habit of ignoring
it until someone makes an issue of it...... Hopefully it's right
now.... Hope you're satisfied.
By the way... anybody want the lottery numbers?? ;-) H.W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Clamps & glue, Re: progress |
I have a question concerning the use of rubber bands as clamps. I used T-88
epoxy on my fuselage. A hint I read somewhere showed a rubber band looped
through a washer, with the washer used to secure the larger loop of the
rubber band around the piece to be secured (confused?). Ever time I tried
this, I could only get 2 uses out of each rubber band, because the rubber
"rotted". Sometimes only one use would do this. Was this due to fumes from
the epoxy reacting with the rubber?
Anyone else experience this? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Thanks.
Al Swanson
>
>
>Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
>one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
>ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
>wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
>between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
>Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
>enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
>"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
>part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
>the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
>maintained you're home cheap.
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
>There have been several comments on fabric here which were clearly
>false such as "dacron is dacron is dacron"
Howard- Your corrections here are well appreciated although I must
clairify that my above statement was with reference to aircraft dacron,
not dacron from your local fabric store or Sears. It's funny how when
you pin down the aircraft fabric vendors they'll tell you just what I said
above.
Thanks !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Corvair Tips Requested |
Mike Lindsay in TN is building up a Corvair per Wynn's
conversion manual and is looking for others who are
doing the same. I don't think he is on e-mail.
He phoned me last night looking for others to chat w/ about
this and would GLADLY call YOU back if you'll just give him a ring.
423-928-8920. He sounded like a very pleasant individual too.
For Mike Lindsay,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: piano hinge (again) gasp! |
Mr Dannymac,
I wasn't trying to shock you, for sure, or hurt you in any way. Only that
you should think before making changes. I did (and sorry for it) and am
passing on my experiences on to you. After writing to you yesterday, I
later had more thought on your splitting the edges to insert the piano
hinge. Maybe I just don't understand, I certainly am no scientist. how will
you cover the edges( ie wrap the fabric) if the edges are cut and there are
hinges there to contend with. If you split the edge to insert a hinge it
will probably be within 3/4 " of the edge, not very strong and may cause
enough stress to further split the edge. On the other hand the proven hinges
( and you can get light cast aluminum), are anchored through the leading and
trailing members. Anyway its your baby, you are right I have no cause to
interfere with your process.
I will not be making it to Brodhead or Oshkosh with my plane this year. I
have too many changes that have caused my failure on the corvair. I feel I
have to go back to square one on the engine or change the engine.
Regards,
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Mike,
Sorry about you're misadventure with London's finest. I was looking for you.
The flyin was pretty good. We had about 30 planes fly-in. Only 4 Piets. But
everyone that came , came for the Piets. A lot more builders came this year.
The weather couldn't be beat. Come again next year.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Hi Guys
Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as the
401 and Highbury.
About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe GT
with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of about
16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc trail
bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried to
use them).
We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the damage
was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see some
Piets.
Wrong.
Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE full
leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in the
chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm 6'2",
190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
but basically a nice guy)
About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in 6
weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop his
doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's my
fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've ever
watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably a
bad idea.
On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i suspect
it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
See ya next time
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: piano hinge (again) gasp! |
Danno;
I strongly suggest you do NOT mess with this piano hinge on the tail
surfaces. Safely covering these would be a no go due to that hinge and would
weaken the structure just as Domenic says. When you make these kinds of
changes, it does affect too many things down the line and you don't realize
it till you get there and it is too late. I suggest you by the cast aluminum
hinges from Mr. Capler and be done with it, Otherwise you are going to paint
yourself into a corner. The piano hinge I designed works well on the
ailerons and is well flight proven....just do it there, OK?
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piano hinge (again) gasp!
>Dear Group,
>
> Remember when I asked about the piano hinge on the tail surfaces?
>Well, let me run this past you and please tell me what you think.
>I am considering splitting the trailing edge of the hor-stab and the
>leading edge of the elev and sandwiching the hinge in with bolts. Having
>not a hinge in my posession, I can only estimate a 3/16" to 1/4" gap
>that can be wrapped with sheet rubber much like a strip of innertube.
>This would leave a clean contrasting mating that may also have some
>sealing effect. Being that this would be aluminum hinge, I think I would
>run the lengths of the surfaces for safety's sake and not use several
>pieces of hinge that would allow me to keep these wooden pieces whole
>and only slotted. Same with the rudder, only more ruddery. What say you
>all?
>
>Dannymac: Experimental Builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
hello group==I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of Luscombe wings
(alum ribs & spar) w/ailerons (cable controled) fabric covered (to be
replaced) for not much more $ than materials to build wood wings...now
I know it distroys the Piet purity but I've got to consider the gobs of
time it will save me in getting my bird airborne. (I'm 61 years young
and watching the calender) the wings are adaptable with only minor
modification to the center section.
any comments pro or con ?????
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Tips Requested |
Gee, someone else who has actually RECEIVED their
manual...
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
> Mike Lindsay in TN is building up a Corvair per
> Wynn's
> conversion manual and is looking for others who are
> doing the same. I don't think he is on e-mail.
> He phoned me last night looking for others to chat
> w/ about
> this and would GLADLY call YOU back if you'll just
> give him a ring.
> 423-928-8920. He sounded like a very pleasant
> individual too.
>
> For Mike Lindsay,
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I just bought the hinges from Vi Kapler after wasting a lot of time trying to make
them myself. First, I tried to make them per the plans but had a hard time
bending the metal since the pieces were so small. I made a set out of tubing
as others have done. Gotta go, work calls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
I was talking to the fellow (cant remember his name,Old age I guess) That
cuts the wood for the Piet. Anyhow he was telling me bout some glue sold
by someone in Louisiana and now I cant even remember this information.
Cant yall help me (absent minded) find this information??
Thanks Guys
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
5.63 lbs sounds like a lot of weight to save on a Model A Piet.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fabric
>It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
>right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
>Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
>talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
>almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
>reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
>where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
>either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
>a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
>Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
>what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
>most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
>heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
>you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
>generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
>
>Ken
>
>On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
>> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
>> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
>> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
>> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
>> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
>> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
>> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
>> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
>> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>>
>> Again, ignorant in Texas.
>>
>> Dannymac
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
OR......
Take a welding rod, cut to appropriate length, pound one end flat, drill a
little hole in it, and shape the other end on your belt sander. Maybe bend
the pointed end to the appropriate shape for as well.....
Cheap needles.
John
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David B. Schober <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib Stitching |
>When you are getting ready to stitch, buy as many long needles as you can
>afford. Mark all the holes, punch them with a needle, then start each
>needle on a different rib. Pass all of them through to the other side,
>walk around and pass them back. For each needle you use, multiply that by
>how many stitches per rib and you save that many trips back and forth!
>The last airplane I did, Icould stitch a wing panel in about 4 hours
>alone.
>
>Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>> Anyone going to Oshkosh can learn to ribstitch for free at the
>> Polyfiber tent. They have a tutor there who will guide you thru
>> the right way to do this process. We took a video camera and
>> recorded this so by the time it came to do the plane we could
>> refresh our memory. They also lecture and demonstrate the other
>> fabric covering steps. I really liked covering best of all the other
>> parts of building the Piet. (had never covered before). Maybe it
>> was the fumes from the MEK and buterayte dope, I dunno.
>>
>> Mike C.
>
>
>--
>
**
>
>David B.Schober, CPE
>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>Fairmont State College
>National Aerospace Education Center
>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>(304) 842-8300
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | William Wynne's alien abduction |
David Swagler wrote:
>
> Gee, someone else who has actually RECEIVED their
> manual...
Here's a copy of some e-mail I got on from another list:
>>Hi Dave,
>>
>>Do you know if William Wynne has been abducted by aliens or
something?
>>I've been calling and leaving messages (about one a week!) on his
machine
>>for the last three months to get some Corvair conversion info!
>>
>>I wonder if he is sick or something?
>>
>>Glen
>
>If you have been dialing the 500 area code number, he told me a few
months
>ago that it had been nothing but trouble for him, because most PBX
systems
>do not recognize it as a valid area code. SO, he may have changed it.
>
>The number I used to reach him under is:
>
>(904)426-6028
>
>You might try that one. I tried tonite and got no answer, but at
least I
>didn't get any message saying that he would be right back after
>anal-probing by aliens.
>
One good thing going for me... although I've not received the manual
I ordered a few months ago, at least he's not cashed my check.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
Mr. Jon Goldenbaum - VP and chief mugwump at Poly-Fibre explained this
to me once. They own both the Poly-Fibre stuff and Ceconite. He said
they put a big roll of fabric in a machine, and it stamps it with the
Poly-Fibre stamps. After a while they change the stamp and stamp
Ceconite on it a while. Same fabric. Two different STCs.
Commercial 'non-certified' Dacron may be fine. However, you never
really know what you are buying. The airplane stuff has known weave
pattern, known thread counts, no sizing, etc.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION
>There have been several comments on fabric here which were clearly
>false such as "dacron is dacron is dacron"
Howard- Your corrections here are well appreciated although I must
clairify that my above statement was with reference to aircraft
dacron,
not dacron from your local fabric store or Sears. It's funny how
when
you pin down the aircraft fabric vendors they'll tell you just what
I said above.
Thanks !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
I spent part of yesterday with a can of Brasso, my drill, a cloth
buffing wheel, and my Piet radiator. It now shines like the top of my
head. KOOL!
You Continental guys may have an edge in performance but you'll NEVER
have a polished brass radiator on your ship. :-)
John
________________________________________________________________________________
No maybe not, but you will have your hat in a day or two. Good to talk to
you on the phone...
Keep building!
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
Greenlee
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 8:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress
I spent part of yesterday with a can of Brasso, my drill, a cloth buffing
wheel, and my Piet radiator. It now shines like the top of my head. KOOL!
You Continental guys may have an edge in performance but you'll NEVER have a
polished brass radiator on your ship. :-)
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
> I spent part of yesterday with a can of Brasso, my drill, a cloth buffing
> wheel, and my Piet radiator. It now shines like the top of my head. KOOL!
>
> You Continental guys may have an edge in performance but you'll NEVER have a
> polished brass radiator on your ship. :-)
>
> John
>
John- That is what makes these Piets so neat- they all have special traits to
themselves.
You should see the gorgeous radiator Earl M. has on his Sky Scout. You two
will have
to park next to each other at Brodhead for photos next year !
MC
I spent part of yesterday with a
can of Brasso, my drill, a cloth buffing wheel, and my Piet
radiator. It now shines like the top of my head.
KOOL!
You Continental guys may have an edge in performance but
you'll NEVER have a polished brass radiator on your ship.
:-)
John
John- That is what makes these Piets so neat- they all have special
traits to themselves.
You should see the gorgeous radiator Earl M. has on his Sky Scout.
You two will have
to park next to each other at Brodhead for photos next year !
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
The first thing I would look at is the airfoil versus the
horizontal stabilizer area. The Piet's airfoil is almost reflexed
and should be practically neutral whereas the Luscombe may cause
significant nose down force that requires more horizontal stab
area to compensate and give you the required amount of control.
The Luscombe is a heavier plane than a Piet, isn't it? What
speed does the Luscomb stall at? What is the area of the wing?
You should get enough lift if you can get enough speed up. More
lift from the wing translates into more drag and the Piet has
plenty of that already. It would probably be good to look at
the GN-1 and compare the Luscombs wing/airfoil to the Cub's that
the GN-1 uses. With luck thay are the same or nearly the same
airfoil and that will point to what performance you can expect.
It might be a good idea, but I'd want to be able to answer a lot
of questions first.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
fishin on 06/22/99 09:31:30 AM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wings
hello group==I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of Luscombe
wings
(alum ribs & spar) w/ailerons (cable controled) fabric covered
(to be
replaced) for not much more $ than materials to build wood
wings...now
I know it distroys the Piet purity but I've got to consider the
gobs of
time it will save me in getting my bird airborne. (I'm 61 years
young
and watching the calender) the wings are adaptable with only
minor
modification to the center section.
any comments pro or con ?????
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: William Wynne's alien abduction |
At least then you'd know something was happening! I
sent a money order. I figured I'd get it sooner if I
didn't have to wait for a check to clear. ;<{)
>
> One good thing going for me... although I've not
> received the manual
> I ordered a few months ago, at least he's not
> cashed my check.
>
> Pat
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
I would like to know how well the GN-1 flies. We are planning on building
one and the information would be good to have . Am I to understand it
flies kinda like the Cub? I have heard it kinda flies different than the
Piet. Is this true? Or is it a good handeling craft.
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
I too used 2.7 Oz. fabric. Wait and see how much weight ( I mean paint) it
soaks up. I had to stop short of a perfect finish because of the weight.
Just another thing I didn't think would affect my empty weight, but it did
. I'm sure of it. 2.7 is designed for faster flying craft. today I think I
would opt for 1.7Oz. fabric.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
5.63 lbs sounds like a lot of weight to save on a Model A Piet.
John
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
>It's generally determined by wing loading. The Piet looks like it falls
>right on the border between 1.7 and 2.7. Given that a plane the size of a
>Piet will use about 45 yards (length) x 2 yards (width), you're only
>talking about adding 90 ozs or 5.63 lbs by going to the 2.7, but you get
>almoost double the bursting strength. Also, rip propogation is greatly
>reduced. I'm using the 2.7 oz on the Chriatavia except for the LG legs
>where 3.4 oz will be used. The 3.4 oz has a very course weave compared to
>either the 1.7 or 2.7 and doesn't give as nice a finish, but it sure takes
>a pounding. There was a good article in a recent Kitplanes (since
>Christmas?) that talks a lot about the different weights of fabric and
>what the end result ends up weighing. Of cource the chemicals comprise
>most of the weight. The choice has to be made as to whether you want a
>heavy glossy show finish or a light functional one. To get a glossy finish
>you need to fill the fabric weave with something. That something is
>generally a lot heavier than the fabric.
>
>Ken
>
>On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, dannymac wrote:
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> How does one determine the weight of fabric to use on a particular
>> aircraft? I was under the impression that different weights were used on
>> the wing than the fuselage. I've been told "it doesn't matter", "the
>> lighter the better", "as strong as you want", and "to each his own". I
>> would like a better understanding before I make this decision.
>> Some of the old-timers say that there is no reason to pay expensive
>> prices for aircraft-grade dacron on such a plane as the Pietenpol when
>> it can be purchased at "Clothworld" or "Sears". Their argument is that
>> at the low speeds these planes go, both are superior to what was put on
>> planes "way back when"...... and either will last a long, long time if
>> properly cared for. Any info will help at this point.
>>
>> Again, ignorant in Texas.
>>
>> Dannymac
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Woodchips,
I think I have deleted your mail. This may be the man and product
you were asking about. I'm using the "Structan"......let me know if you
intend to also, and we can parley if you want before you order any.
"Structan" brand glue is the one imported through Louisiana. I was
referred to this source by Jean Peters in Calgary. He is the man that
cuts and sells wood for the Piet. He is friendly, experienced and
informative. You can often find him in his shop 7 days a week just
because thats where he wants to be. Excellent wood too.
Western Aircraft Supplies Jean Peters 403-250-1955
623 Markerville Rd. S.E.
Calgary, Alberta T2E 5X1
Canada
"Structan" glue
6 hour boil test
appx $12.00 tube
1 year shelf life
is a semi-gel
and is sold by
Amble Corp.
PO Box 819
Cottonport La.
71327
Sammy
1-800-779-3935
Jes makin'"Ribs" in Texas!
Dannymac
>
> Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
> url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
> email= vistin(at)juno.com
>
> __________
________________________________________________________________________________
What would you call it...a Pietencombe? Maybe a Luskenpole?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Radiator Shine |
Same shiny head, same shiny radiator, same employer, same...............
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:44 AM
Subject: Radiator Shine
I spent part of yesterday with a can of Brasso, my drill, a
cloth buffing wheel, and my Piet radiator. It now shines like the top
of my head. KOOL!
You Continental guys may have an edge in performance but you'll
NEVER have a polished brass radiator on your ship. :-)
John
John- That is what makes these Piets so neat- they all have special
traits to themselves.
You should see the gorgeous radiator Earl M. has on his Sky Scout.
You two will have
to park next to each other at Brodhead for photos next year !
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered they
are all "right" mags. No left mags. Also, George Skistimas, Sylvania, Ohio,
an IA, completed his A-65 powered Pietenpol several years ago. He obtained,
but never used, a Ford Model A engine that many, many, years ago had been
professionally converted to an air-cooled Model A by a company that was
converting them for aircraft use. George purchased the engine from a man in
Texas and had it rebuilt in Auburn, Indiana. It's something to see with all
the fins and other devices.
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
Randall Reihing wrote:
>
> While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered they
> are all "right" mags. No left mags.
What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
available?
Thanks!
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
Pat,
To be honest, I don't know. I'm not an A&P, etc. It was just something
I
learned when I had the mags replaced on my Taylorcraft, that there was a
left and a right mag. It may have relate to their direction of rotation.
So, when I ordered two of the mags from Army Surplus I asked, and was told,
that they "are all right mags, there are no left mags". I am wondering,
like you, if one of them can be converted.
>Randall Reihing wrote:
>>
>> While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered they
>> are all "right" mags. No left mags.
>
>What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
>converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
>available?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Pat
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Hi Earl
It was in London, Ontario, Canada- Home of the Politically correct and land
of the submissive ;-)
Actually, the more I think about it the funnier it gets.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 12:51 AM
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
> Were you in Canada or the U.S.?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
>
>
> >Hi Guys
> >
> >Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as
the
> >401 and Highbury.
> >
> >About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe
> GT
> >with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of
about
> >16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc
> trail
> >bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried
to
> >use them).
> >
> >We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the
> damage
> >was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see
some
> >Piets.
> >
> >Wrong.
> >
> >Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
> >wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE
> full
> >leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in
> the
> >chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm
> 6'2",
> >190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
> >but basically a nice guy)
> >
> >About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in
6
> >weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
> >hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
> >
> >NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop
his
> >doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's
my
> >fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've
> ever
> >watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably
a
> >bad idea.
> >
> >On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i
suspect
> >it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
> >
> >So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
> >besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
> >
> >See ya next time
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey) |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
Organization:
I may be way out in left field, but I thing the difference is that only
one mag has an impulse coupling. At least I think that is the way it
was on a Cherokee that I once owned.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 5:30 PM
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
> Pat,
> To be honest, I don't know. I'm not an A&P, etc. It was just something
I
> learned when I had the mags replaced on my Taylorcraft, that there was
a
> left and a right mag. It may have relate to their direction of
rotation.
> So, when I ordered two of the mags from Army Surplus I asked, and was
told,
> that they "are all right mags, there are no left mags". I am
wondering,
> like you, if one of them can be converted.
>
>
> >Randall Reihing wrote:
> >>
> >> While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I
discovered they
> >> are all "right" mags. No left mags.
> >
> >What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
> >converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
> >available?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Pat
> >
> >
> Randall Reihing
> University of Toledo
> College of Engineering
> MIME Department
> 419-530-8244
> FAX: 419-530-8206
> E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Clamps & glue, Re: progress |
Try this:
Put a drop of hardener on a rubber band. No more rubber band- the vapors do
the same thing. Its the MEK content.
Inquiring minds now know ;-)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 1:39 AM
| Subject: | Re: Clamps & glue, Re: progress |
> I have a question concerning the use of rubber bands as clamps. I used
T-88
> epoxy on my fuselage. A hint I read somewhere showed a rubber band looped
> through a washer, with the washer used to secure the larger loop of the
> rubber band around the piece to be secured (confused?). Ever time I tried
> this, I could only get 2 uses out of each rubber band, because the rubber
> "rotted". Sometimes only one use would do this. Was this due to fumes
from
> the epoxy reacting with the rubber?
>
> Anyone else experience this? Inquiring minds would like to know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Al Swanson
>
>
> >
> >
> >Epoxy doesn't need much pressure, in fact too much is bad. Two
> >one foot pieces of 2x2 with a six or eight inch bolt through the
> >ends or alternately through the end and middle using a piece of
> >wood equal to the thickness of what you want to clamp placed
> >between the bolts, will give all the pressure that you need.
> >Big rubber bands on both ends of a pair of 2x2's will also give
> >enough pressure. A little waxed paper under each side of these
> >"econo" clamps will insure that they do not become an additional
> >part of the fuse, wing, etc. Rubber bands alone will also do
> >the trick in some situations. As long as alignment is
> >maintained you're home cheap.
> >
> >Mike Bell
> >Columbia, SC
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Mags and A's |
Pat and Randall and all,
Both mags turn in the same direction. The basic difference is that the
right mag is just a simple magneto. The left mag has an extra mechanism and
is called an impulse mag. Due to propping at such a slow speed,( and since
the mag runs off the cam, which runs at half of that speed) the magnet is
not passing the coil fast enough to create an output spark.
So this "impulse" gadget retards the spark,( to minimize backfiring) and
kind of "holds back" the magnet, then lets it fly by the coil at the right
time to create a spark. Then above a certain rpm this mechanism kind of
latches out , waiting for the next start. Then it becomes same as a right
hand mag.
If you pull a prop through , or when any plane shuts down, thats the
clicking you hear when it comes to a stop.
Even though both mags are hot , you start on the impulse mag.
NOTE: When you time an impulse mag you have to pull prop in direction
THROUGH the impulse, then back up through points closing, then bring through
for correct timing.
I was shown a neat gadget with bulb and battery to set timing on a mag. If
anyone need this infro, let me know.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
>Pat,
> To be honest, I don't know. I'm not an A&P, etc. It was just something I
>learned when I had the mags replaced on my Taylorcraft, that there was a
>left and a right mag. It may have relate to their direction of rotation.
>So, when I ordered two of the mags from Army Surplus I asked, and was told,
>that they "are all right mags, there are no left mags". I am wondering,
>like you, if one of them can be converted.
>
>
>>Randall Reihing wrote:
>>>
>>> While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered
they
>>> are all "right" mags. No left mags.
>>
>>What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
>>converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
>>available?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>Randall Reihing
>University of Toledo
>College of Engineering
>MIME Department
>419-530-8244
>FAX: 419-530-8206
>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
OK, there seems to be a little confusuion here. Let me try and clarify.
There are 2 deffinitions of "right" and "left" mags. From the engine's
point of view, there are 2 mags, a left and a right. Depending on the
engine, they cam be the same or different. In some cases, one will have an
impulse couple and the other won't. In other cases one will have a
different lag angle than the other to aid starting. In rare occasions, the
two mags may even rotat opposite each other. The mag really doesn't care
if it's on the right or left as long as it's turned the right way. A given
mag may be installed on the left side on one engine and on the right of
another.
That brings us to the second definition. Depending on the gearing of the
accessory case, a mag may need to have either a clockwise or
counterclockwise rotation or, as slick labels it, right rotation or left
rotation. This is the L & R noted on the mag.
So, the mags that are available from the Army Surplus are right hand
rotation. BTW, I confirmed this when I bought my 4 mags yesterday. It's
clearly marked on the mag "Rotation: R". As for running them backward, I
don't think you can. However, there may be a little internal magic to
force this.
Ken
On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Patrick Panzera wrote:
> Randall Reihing wrote:
> >
> > While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered they
> > are all "right" mags. No left mags.
>
> What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
> converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
> available?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Pat
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | to correct my last post |
My last post an hour ago my fingers got ahead of my brain and said this
" and since
the mag runs off the cam, which runs at half of that speed"
The mag runs off the crank ( usually)
walt
My last post an hour ago my fingers
got ahead of
my brain and said this and sincethe
mag runs
off the cam, which runs at half of that speed
The mag runs off the crank (
usually)
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos |
Do these mags have impulse couplings?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: "A" rebuild/Magnetos
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:42 AM
>Subject: "A" rebuild/Magnetos
>
>
>Greetings group,
>
>I've been enjoying the postings. Tons of great info. I have a question for
>the model A guys. Are the modification plans in the 1932 Glider mag.
>complete, or are there some updated mods I should incorporate? Will I be
ok
>to follow those instructions word for word ?? I had thought of souping up
>but now I want to keep it as simple as possible.
>That was Bernard's idea!
>
>Also, I have a source for 4 cyl magnetos made by slick. They are brand new
>in the box, 15 degree lag, right rotation. They were manufactured around
>1988 for ground power units. I have talked directly with Slick and they
>confirmed that these mags are the same quality as the aircraft version,
just
>different color. They come with timing instructions and hold down
fittings.
>Somone tell me if I am missing somthing, but I think for $15.00 a piece,
>these will make a great ignition source. Email me if interested.
>Keep up the chatter. Chad.
>
>Chad,
> The mag installation on the model A as per the early magazine articles
>used a mag with a reduction drive. It is direct drive at crankshaft speed.
>The Slick mags are intended to be driven from the engines accessory drives
>at i/2 crank speed or camshaft speed. Great price though!
>You might be able to adapt them to the distributor drive out of the top of
>the head or from the end of the cam howevr that would change the rotation.
>The antique tractor guys are likely to have a crankspeed mag or know where
>to get one. Know any of them in your area?
> As for the rest of the engine mods just follow the plans it works as
is.
>John Mc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Oh, well- I probably wasn't any smarter at that age- I just happened to get
away with stuff I pulled.
Anyway- do you know if C-FAUK is still based at Hamilton ? It was in the EAA
hanger a few years ago when I worked for Pen-Air, but I haven't seen it
around lately (Cream and Green aircamper, C-65 with cub cheek cowls)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC |
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 9:30 AM
| Subject: | FW: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
> Mike,
>
> Sorry about you're misadventure with London's finest. I was looking for
you.
> The flyin was pretty good. We had about 30 planes fly-in. Only 4 Piets.
But
> everyone that came , came for the Piets. A lot more builders came this
year.
> The weather couldn't be beat. Come again next year.
>
> Domenic
> ----------
> From: Mike Lund
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:54PM
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as
the
> 401 and Highbury.
>
> About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe
GT
> with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of about
> 16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc
trail
> bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried to
> use them).
>
> We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the
damage
> was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see
some
> Piets.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
> wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE
full
> leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in
the
> chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm
6'2",
> 190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
> but basically a nice guy)
>
> About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in
6
> weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
> hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
>
> NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop
his
> doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's
my
> fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've
ever
> watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably
a
> bad idea.
>
> On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i suspect
> it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
>
> So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
> besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
>
> See ya next time
>
> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
If you dont mind my asking, Where did you purchase theses mags and what was the
cost..
Ken Beanlands wrote:
> OK, there seems to be a little confusuion here. Let me try and clarify.
> There are 2 deffinitions of "right" and "left" mags. From the engine's
> point of view, there are 2 mags, a left and a right. Depending on the
> engine, they cam be the same or different. In some cases, one will have an
> impulse couple and the other won't. In other cases one will have a
> different lag angle than the other to aid starting. In rare occasions, the
> two mags may even rotat opposite each other. The mag really doesn't care
> if it's on the right or left as long as it's turned the right way. A given
> mag may be installed on the left side on one engine and on the right of
> another.
>
> That brings us to the second definition. Depending on the gearing of the
> accessory case, a mag may need to have either a clockwise or
> counterclockwise rotation or, as slick labels it, right rotation or left
> rotation. This is the L & R noted on the mag.
>
> So, the mags that are available from the Army Surplus are right hand
> rotation. BTW, I confirmed this when I bought my 4 mags yesterday. It's
> clearly marked on the mag "Rotation: R". As for running them backward, I
> don't think you can. However, there may be a little internal magic to
> force this.
>
> Ken
>
> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Patrick Panzera wrote:
>
> > Randall Reihing wrote:
> > >
> > > While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered they
> > > are all "right" mags. No left mags.
> >
> > What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
> > converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
> > available?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Pat
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Duane <Duaner(at)atl.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Tips Requested |
How log did it take to get his William Wynn Manual? I sent a check in April,
and I'm still waiting. Does Wynn have email.
Duane R
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Tips Requested |
Duane wrote:
>
> How log did it take to get his William Wynn Manual? I sent a check in April,
> and I'm still waiting. Does Wynn have email.
Nope, no e-mail.
Sent my money in April too. Still no manual.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
As for running them backward, I
>don't think you can. However, there may be a little internal magic to
>force this.
Changing the direction of rotation can be done with some mags. The basic
principle of a mag is that it is a generator and ignition system combined.
There are two windings in the mag.
One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end and the
other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in parallel
with the points.
The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of the
armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit at
the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid collapse
of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be generated
in the secondary. The capacitor or condensor aids in the sudden collapse of
the primary. It also tends to prevent arcing at the points.
The basis is almost the same as in an automotive system except that no
battery is needed as the magnets and windings provide the primary current.
The impulse works as decribed in the previous e-mail and has the effect of
causing a higher speed between the armature and winding as well as retarding
the spark for easier starting. Always check that your mag switch grounds the
primary so that no unintentional cylinder firing can occur. (It is that
second prop blade that hurts! ;-( )
back to reversing a mag.. the objct is to break the primary when the maximum
magnetic flux occurs to create the hottest spark possible. The breaker cam
determines when this occurs. I have successfully reversed some older mags of
the type found on Gipsy Major engines, by repositioning the cam for the
opposite rotation. These mags have the magnet stationary and the coils and
points rotate. (must be British !).
The impulse is much harder to reverse but possible. It depends on how
badly you want to do it.
For the Model A guys, the mags as shown in the early plans are of a similar
type to the old tractors and run at crankshaft speed with reduction gearing
in the mag distributor. A four stroke four cylinder engine fires two
cylinders in one revolution.
A lot of the early mag drives used a coupling with a fiber of rubber
coupling between two metal gear like parts one with 19 teeth and the other
with 20. This allows small timing changes to be made by turning one part.
The Pratt and Whitney 9 cylinder radials use this method. If you know any
antique tractor peoplethey might help out as many of the older tractors,
Pre WW2, use this type of coupling. Far superior to the leather drive washer
in Bernard' s plans.
Hope this isn't confusing
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
I thought ALL the bad guys lived in the States and there were no doughnuts
in Canada.....
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 5:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
>Hi Earl
>
>It was in London, Ontario, Canada- Home of the Politically correct and land
>of the submissive ;-)
>
>Actually, the more I think about it the funnier it gets.
>
>Mike
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 12:51 AM
June 15, 1999 - June 23, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-aw