Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ax
June 23, 1999 - June 30, 1999
>Subject: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
>
>
>> Were you in Canada or the U.S.?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Lund <malund(at)sprint.ca>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
>>
>>
>> >Hi Guys
>> >
>> >Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as
>the
>> >401 and Highbury.
>> >
>> >About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89
Probe
>> GT
>> >with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of
>about
>> >16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc
>> trail
>> >bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried
>to
>> >use them).
>> >
>> >We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the
>> damage
>> >was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see
>some
>> >Piets.
>> >
>> >Wrong.
>> >
>> >Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill,
but
>> >wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE
>> full
>> >leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in
>> the
>> >chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm
>> 6'2",
>> >190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and
goatee-
>> >but basically a nice guy)
>> >
>> >About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set
in
>6
>> >weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my
right
>> >hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
>> >
>> >NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop
>his
>> >doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's
>my
>> >fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've
>> ever
>> >watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was
probably
>a
>> >bad idea.
>> >
>> >On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i
>suspect
>> >it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
>> >
>> >So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
>> >besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
>> >
>> >See ya next time
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
John McNarry wrote:
>
> As for running them backward, I
-------------------------------------
> Hope this isn't confusing
>
> John Mc
Go John!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION |
Just a side note, I have a set of plans for the fly baby airplane, and in
those plans, the author recommends the use of nurse's uniform material as a
fabric cover for his airplane.
Fabric from the fabric store.
Just a statement, not that I have a corner on the facts.
ocb
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: FABRIC MIS-INFORMATION
>Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:24:06 -0400
>
> >There have been several comments on fabric here which were clearly
> >false such as "dacron is dacron is dacron"
>
>
>Howard- Your corrections here are well appreciated although I must
>clairify that my above statement was with reference to aircraft dacron,
>not dacron from your local fabric store or Sears. It's funny how when
>you pin down the aircraft fabric vendors they'll tell you just what I said
>above.
>
>Thanks !
>
>Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Mags and A's |
Walt,
Great information. Answers alot of my questions.
Yes, I would be interested in knowing more about
the bulb / battery combination to se tthe timing of
a mag.
Thanks..
Mike King
Dallas
>Pat and Randall and all,
> Both mags turn in the same direction. The basic difference is that the
>right mag is just a simple magneto. The left mag has an extra mechanism and
>is called an impulse mag. Due to propping at such a slow speed,( and since
>the mag runs off the cam, which runs at half of that speed) the magnet is
>not passing the coil fast enough to create an output spark.
>So this "impulse" gadget retards the spark,( to minimize backfiring) and
>kind of "holds back" the magnet, then lets it fly by the coil at the right
>time to create a spark. Then above a certain rpm this mechanism kind of
>latches out , waiting for the next start. Then it becomes same as a right
>hand mag.
>If you pull a prop through , or when any plane shuts down, thats the
>clicking you hear when it comes to a stop.
>Even though both mags are hot , you start on the impulse mag.
>NOTE: When you time an impulse mag you have to pull prop in direction
>THROUGH the impulse, then back up through points closing, then bring through
>for correct timing.
>I was shown a neat gadget with bulb and battery to set timing on a mag. If
>anyone need this infro, let me know.
>walt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 4:27 PM
>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>
>>Pat,
>> To be honest, I don't know. I'm not an A&P, etc. It was just something I
>>learned when I had the mags replaced on my Taylorcraft, that there was a
>>left and a right mag. It may have relate to their direction of rotation.
>>So, when I ordered two of the mags from Army Surplus I asked, and was told,
>>that they "are all right mags, there are no left mags". I am wondering,
>>like you, if one of them can be converted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Randall Reihing wrote:
>>>>
>>>> While ordering one of those Slick mags from Army Surplus I discovered
>they
>>>> are all "right" mags. No left mags.
>>>
>>>What is the fundamental difference, and can a right mag be
>>>converted to a left, and do they have 6 cylinder models
>>>available?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Pat
>>>
>>>
>>Randall Reihing
>>University of Toledo
>>College of Engineering
>>MIME Department
>>419-530-8244
>>FAX: 419-530-8206
>>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | FW: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
"'Piet. Discussion Group'"
Yes,
Still belongs to Brian Kenney. I will forward your Querey to him.
Domenic
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
Oh, well- I probably wasn't any smarter at that age- I just happened to get
away with stuff I pulled.
Anyway- do you know if C-FAUK is still based at Hamilton ? It was in the EAA
hanger a few years ago when I worked for Pen-Air, but I haven't seen it
around lately (Cream and Green aircamper, C-65 with cub cheek cowls)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC |
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 9:30 AM
| Subject: | FW: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother |
> Mike,
>
> Sorry about you're misadventure with London's finest. I was looking for
you.
> The flyin was pretty good. We had about 30 planes fly-in. Only 4 Piets.
But
> everyone that came , came for the Piets. A lot more builders came this
year.
> The weather couldn't be beat. Come again next year.
>
> Domenic
> ----------
> From: Mike Lund
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Fly in- Mikeys latest run-in with big brother
> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:54PM
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Sorry I missed the flyin on Saturday. I did actaually make it as far as
the
> 401 and Highbury.
>
> About there, while I'm waiting for a red light, my second hobby (89 Probe
GT
> with EVERYTHING in it) gets a little nudge. Some little snot-nose of about
> 16 in age years, and 3 in mentality, riding this HUGE ;-)little 125cc
trail
> bike forgot how his brakes work. (probably the first time he ever tried to
> use them).
>
> We got out of the car, Mr big brother was about 1 block away, and the
damage
> was minimal, so I figured about 1/2 an hour and were on the way to see
some
> Piets.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Mr. 5'4" snot nose decidies it's MY fault (ya, I was at a standstill, but
> wee're not talking a brain surgeon). So at about 5'4" in his IMPRESSIVE
full
> leathers (in 90 degree heat) he starts screaming, swearing, poking me in
the
> chest and takes a few spits on my 2 1/2 year old son. (By the way, I'm
6'2",
> 190 on a light day, tatoos in full glory, no shirt, bald head and goatee-
> but basically a nice guy)
>
> About this time I introduced his poking finger to his wrist (it'll set in
6
> weeks), use my knee to introduce his scrotum to his larynix, and my right
> hand to teach the principal of non-offensive, coherent speech.
>
> NOW mr. big brother (otherise known as London's finest) decides to drop
his
> doughnut, and actually move. Unfortunatly, he decided I'm bigger so it's
my
> fault and proceeded to start with the whole Gestapo attitude (If you've
ever
> watched COPS you know what I mean). In retrospect "the bird" was probably
a
> bad idea.
>
> On the bright side, there was so much excitement that he FORGOT (i suspect
> it was deliberate) to read me my rights or search me.
>
> So the 1/2 hour turned into a 1/2 day, and I didn't feel like doing much
> besides going home, fixing my bumper and having a few brown pops.
>
> See ya next time
>
> Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Mags and A's--some thoughts |
Regarding "reversing" mag direction, on Bendix mags the cam the points ride
on is removable, allowing a person to use the same basic rotor for either
direction. In fact, this is a favorite ploy of mechanic examiners: reverse
the cam, hand the mag to a prospective mechanic and ask him to troubleshoot
why it won't work. You'd be surprised (and dismayed) at the number of people
who just can't grasp the idea of comparing what they have in their hand with
what is described in the manual. I don't know of any easy way to adjust a
Slick (Unison) mag internally for rotation. I think the "E" gap, or the
point of null, is pretty much fixed.
As for the timing box, I have the schematic for it around here somewhere.
Used to require students to build their own. Taught them some about
electronics, soldering, and just how the darned thing works. A more modern
unit can be purchased from most supply houses for about $50.00 'merican, and
is a snap to use. It is an excellent investment for anyone contemplating
maintaining their own piece of flying history, or any aircraft for that
matter.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
-----Original Message-----
From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
>There are two windings in the mag.
> One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end and
the
>other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in parallel
>with the points.
I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't you?
(I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
> The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
>sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of the
>armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
>windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit at
>the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid collapse
>of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be generated
Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in the
cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
....
>Hope this isn't confusing
>
>John Mc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Mags and A's--some thoughts |
Ed,
That is a schematic that needs to be at at Richard's
aircamper site. Mucho useful.
Dave
> As for the timing box, I have the schematic for it
> around here somewhere.
> Used to require students to build their own. Taught
> them some about
> electronics, soldering, and just how the darned
> thing works. A more modern
> unit can be purchased from most supply houses for
> about $50.00 'merican, and
> is a snap to use. It is an excellent investment for
> anyone contemplating
> maintaining their own piece of flying history, or
> any aircraft for that
> matter.
>
> Ed
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Mags and A's--some thoughts |
I agree. Just a reminder to all, there is a public upload directory at
the site, here: http://www.AirCamper.org/Upload.cfm
Feel free to use it for things like this.
Richard
--- David Swagler wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> That is a schematic that needs to be at at Richard's
> aircamper site. Mucho useful.
>
> Dave
>
> > As for the timing box, I have the schematic for it
> > around here somewhere.
> > Used to require students to build their own. Taught
> > them some about
> > electronics, soldering, and just how the darned
> > thing works. A more modern
> > unit can be purchased from most supply houses for
> > about $50.00 'merican, and
> > is a snap to use. It is an excellent investment for
> > anyone contemplating
> > maintaining their own piece of flying history, or
> > any aircraft for that
> > matter.
> >
> > Ed
> >
>
>
>
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
| Subject: | Corvair Conversion Manual |
To all,
Today I will send out the last conversion manual to fellow in Tenn. I am no
longer able to xerox any more. Please do not send any more requests or
Postage money.
Thanks in advance,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Conversion Manual |
BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC wrote:
>
> To all,
> Today I will send out the last conversion manual to fellow in Tenn. I am no
> longer able to xerox any more. Please do not send any more requests or
> Postage money.
Dom, I been reading through my copy. Thanks bunches!
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC" |
I sent so many out I can't remember if I sent yours. Did you receive one?
Let me know I've only got one more day at work and won't be able to copy any
more. Soon I'll also have to drop of the discusion group untill I get a new
e-mail..
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to correct my last post |
Is there any good reason not to let the mags fire also on the exhaust
stroke if speed of rotation is such that this happens? It seems that the
mags on Danny Mains Piet are set up this way.
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to correct my last post |
Phil Phillips wrote:
>
> Is there any good reason not to let the mags fire also on the exhaust
> stroke if speed of rotation is such that this happens? It seems that the
> mags on Danny Mains Piet are set up this way.
Perhaps premature wear of the ignition system?
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | The timing gadget |
For all of you guys who wanted this,
This isn't fancy and you can make it at home. All that you need is a
continuity light. You can use one of those flashlights with the
alligator clip plug in if you have it. Or make it with a flashlight
battery soldered to a flashlight bulb with some wires attached ( hook it
up so that when the ends of the long test wires touch , the light comes
on).
First I would pull the plugs, so your not fighting the compression.
Then hook the gadget with one wire end to the engine case (or ground)
The other lead goes to the terminal out of the mag that would go to the
kill switch on the dashboard( either disconnect the kill switch or put
in on position, this is so not to have a parallel circuit).
Now setting the timing, is to make the points open when the engine is in
the exact BTDC degree position that is required in the CORRECT rotation.
Have the bulb laying like on top of the engine so you can see it real
well.
Now rotate the prop so the timing mark starts at , say 9:00 and rotate
till the light goes from full bright , to dimmer. This is the exact
point that the points open. This should be right at the timing mark.
If not loosen the mag hold down nuts and rotate slightly. When You get
it correct tighten the mag and recheck the timing, it might move when
it's tightened.
Remember only check the mark to the bulb in the correct engine rotation(
not each time when you turn it slightly backwards to try it again)
When you check the impulse mag, you must pull it past the impulse
click, then back up to a point that the points are closed but not far
enough to get into the impulse.
I haven't looked that close at my Continental 65 to know about timing
marks, but the 1/2 VW , that Dick Lawson ( my AP) built for me, had a
Bendix mag on it . Dick explained the right way to find TDC ( top dead
center) of an engine that has no marks. If you just stick a screwdriver
in a cyl. the piston will seem to be on top through quite a sweep of
degrees of the crank. Heres what you do. He has a tool that fits in
the sparkplug hole, but you can just make one. find a bolt or post( wood
dowell would probably be good) and secure it somehow so that it will
bump the top of the piston. Be careful not to damage the threads in
spark plug hole. Make it hit as close to the top without letting it go
over the top..
When you are set, rotate the crank in one direction till it solidly
bumps the stop. put a mark on the shaft to the split in the case( using
this for refference, now rotate the other way till bump. Mark the crank
to the same split in case.
The space between these marks is the exact TDC. Do it this way because
any looseness in rod bearing or wrist pin will be cancelled out . Mark
it as TDC. then using a protractor measure in degrees to the right ( if
clockwise rotation) and mark this as timing mark. This timing mark is
the one to use with the light gadget.
So the most you'll have to pay for the whole process , including
battery, bulb, and protractor, is about $4:00.
BE CAREFULL..... IF YOU TRY TO TIME WITH PLUGS IN AND WIRES ON, BY
OPENING THE KILL SWITCH TO DO THE TEST, THE MAG WILL BE HOT AND THE
ENGINE WILL FIRE. A mag that has the small wire disconnected is ready
to run.
Whew,
walt
PS Dick Lawson has taught me a wealth of building tips( but I'm sure
I've only scratched his surface) Stuff like making a beautiful "back
rivit joint" ( think I named it right) to make a flush flathead rivit
joint like on the surface of a Cessna. With a simple homemade tool.
OR. Annealling 6061 aluminum to make it work like taffy without
cracking, and how it rehardens.
walt
For all of you guys who wanted
this,
This isn't fancy
and you can
make it at home. All that you need is a continuity light. You can
use one
of those flashlights with the alligator clip plug in if you have it. Or
make it
with a flashlight battery soldered to a flashlight bulb with some wires
attached
( hook it up so that when the ends of the long test wires touch , the
light
comes on).
First I would pull the plugs,
so your not
fighting the compression. Then hook the gadget with one wire end
to the
engine case (or ground) The other lead goes to the terminal out of the
mag that
would go to the kill switch on the dashboard( either disconnect the kill
switch
or put in on position, this is so not to have a parallel
circuit).
Now setting the timing, is to make
the points
open when the engine is in the exact BTDC degree position that is
required in
the CORRECT rotation. Have the bulb laying like on top of the
engine so
you can see it real well.
Now rotate the prop so the timing
mark starts at
, say 9:00 and rotate till the light goes from full bright , to
dimmer.
This is the exact point that the points open. This should be right
at the
timing mark. If not loosen the mag hold down nuts and rotate
slightly.
When You get it correct tighten the mag and recheck the timing, it might
move
when it's tightened.
Remember only check the mark to the
bulb in the
correct engine rotation( not each time when you turn it slightly
backwards to
try it again)
When you check
the impulse
mag, you must pull it past the impulse click, then back up to a
point that
the points are closed but not far enough to get into the
impulse.
I haven't looked that
close at my
Continental 65 to know about timing marks, but the 1/2 VW , that Dick
Lawson (
my AP) built for me, had a Bendix mag on it . Dick explained
the
right way to find TDC ( top dead center) of an engine that has no
marks.
If you just stick a screwdriver in a cyl. the piston will seem to be on
top
through quite a sweep of degrees of the crank. Heres what you
do. He
has a tool that fits in the sparkplug hole, but you can just make one.
find a
bolt or post( wood dowell would probably be good) and secure it somehow
so that
it will bump the top of the piston. Be careful not to damage the
threads
in spark plug hole. Make it hit as close to the top without
letting it go
over the top..
When you are set, rotate the crank
in one
direction till it solidly bumps the stop. put a mark on the shaft
to the
split in the case( using this for refference, now rotate the other way
till
bump. Mark the crank to the same split in case.
The space between these marks is the
exact
TDC. Do it this way because any looseness in rod bearing or wrist
pin will
be cancelled out . Mark it as TDC. then using a protractor measure in
degrees to
the right ( if clockwise rotation) and mark this as timing mark.
This
timing mark is the one to use with the light gadget.
So the most you'll have to pay for the whole process
,
including battery, bulb, and protractor, is about $4:00.
BE CAREFULL..... IF YOU TRY TO TIME WITH PLUGS IN
AND WIRES
ON, BY OPENING THE KILL SWITCH TO DO THE TEST, THE MAG WILL BE HOT AND
THE
ENGINE WILL FIRE. A mag that has the small wire disconnected is
ready to
run.
Whew,
walt
PS Dick Lawson has taught me a wealth of
building tips(
but I'm sure I've only scratched his surface) Stuff like making a
beautiful back rivit joint ( think I named it right) to make
a flush
flathead rivit joint like on the surface of a Cessna. With a simple
homemade
tool.
OR. Annealling 6061 aluminum sp to
make it work
like taffy without cracking, and how it rehardens.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: to correct my last post |
Phil,
I'm not sure. But if this will help, my Rotax 447 ( and all 2 strokes I
think) fire both cylinders at the same time. This means one is in
compression and the other down ready to exhaust.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Phillips
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: to correct my last post
>Is there any good reason not to let the mags fire also on the exhaust
>stroke if speed of rotation is such that this happens? It seems that the
>mags on Danny Mains Piet are set up this way.
>Phil
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | clarify gadget post |
sorry, just reread it and one sentence isn't clear.....
this.....
"The space between these marks is the exact TDC. "
should say....." the exact center of the distance between these two
marks, is the TDC"
walt
sorry, just reread it and one
sentence isn't
clear.....
this.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Timing box & Mags |
I seem to remember using a similar "box" when I went thru the "P" part of
my A&P education -- it also had a buzzer so you didn't have to look for the
light instead of watching for the timing marks.
Our instructor was also a very practical guy -- he told us of a bush pilot
friend of his that timed his mags using a rubber band & a piece of
cellophane -- he would just listen for the "snap" of the rubber band when
the points opened & released the cellophane!! (the stuff that stays with
you! I did get credit for it on a test! ;-)
Mike C. in PP, KS
> From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Fw: Mags and A's--some thoughts
> Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 8:54 AM
>
> As for the timing box, I have the schematic for it around here somewhere.
> Used to require students to build their own. Taught them some about
> electronics, soldering, and just how the darned thing works. A more
modern
> unit can be purchased from most supply houses for about $50.00 'merican,
and
> is a snap to use. It is an excellent investment for anyone contemplating
> maintaining their own piece of flying history, or any aircraft for that
> matter.
>
> Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 10:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>
>>There are two windings in the mag.
>> One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end
and
>the
>>other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
parallel
>>with the points.
>
>I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't
you?
> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
Nope, the current flow in the primary exsists while the points are
closed and the windings are cutting across the magnetic flux lines of
the permanent magnet's field. When the points open the primary's own
magnetic field collapses rapidly across the secondary winding. The
motion of the collapsing magnetic field across the many turns of fine
windings in the secondary produces the voltage that jumps the plug gap.
>Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux collapses
in
>relation to the points closing ( open) is important and it is not
symetrical in the
>cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
The instant the points open is the firing point!
John Mc
-----Original Message-----From:
Greg Yotz
gyachts(at)kans.comTo:
Pietenpol
Discussion
Wednesday, June 23, 1999 10:38 AMSubject: Re: Mags and
A's
-----Original Message-----From: John
McNarry
t;To:
Pietenpol Discussion
June 22,
1999 10:32 PMSubject: Re: Mags and
A'sThere
are two windings in the mag. One of the windings, the
primary, is
connected to ground at one end andtheother end is
switched
to ground by the points. The capacitor is in parallelwith
the
points.I think you mean switched to the secondary
winding by the
points don't you? (I think this is right but I
might
be wrong....) GY
Nope, the current flow in
the
primary exsists while the points are closed and the windings are cutting
across
the magnetic flux lines of the permanent magnet's field. When the points
open the primary's own magnetic field
collapses
rapidly across the secondary winding. The motion of the collapsing
magnetic
field across the many turns of fine windings in the secondary produces
the
voltage that jumps the plug gap.
Your
right, the
point at which the field in the primary flux collapses
inrelation to the
points closing ( open) is important and it is
not
symetrical in thecycle. Therefore the mag is not
reversable
without a change.
The instant the points open is the firing point!John
Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com (Carpenter, Joel) |
| Subject: | $15.00 MAG WILL WORK |
while it is true that the mag runs from the camshaft, which runs one half
crankshaft speed, the mag gear has the same number of teeth as the
crankshaft, which makes it crankshaft speed. also, as the crankshaft gear
rotates, it drives the camshaft gear in in the opposite direction. the
camshaft gear then drives the mag gear, resulting in the mag rotating in
the same direction as the crankshaft. this will allow the mag to be driven
directly off the end of the crankshaft. i have already purchased some of
these $15.00 mags, and plan to use one on the model A engine. these mags
can also be taken apart and changed for either left or right rotation, as
well as timing. the impulse coupler can also be changed to which ever
direction is used. these are great magnetos at an unbelievable price, and
they will work fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Firing on exhaust |
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Phillips
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 3:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: to correct my last post
>Is there any good reason not to let the mags fire also on the exhaust
>stroke if speed of rotation is such that this happens? It seems that the
>mags on Danny Mains Piet are set up this way.
>Phil
Many of the newer electronic ignition systems on four stroke automobiles do
exactly this. Well almost, they fire on overlap. TDC inbetween exhaust and
intake while the cylinder is scavenging. Sometimes referred to as the "waste
spark system" this system uses no distributor but instead has a coil for
each pair of "companion cylinders". The secondary winding of each coil has a
spark plug connected at each end. A six cylinder engine would need three
coils. A four would then require two. Interestingly the polarity of each
plug in a pair is opposite. Coil polarity used to be a big item in the auto
world. Mags fire every second plug at the opposte polarity as the armature
windings cut across the flux lines the opposite direction each half
revolution of the mag.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 6:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Timing box & Mags
-- he told us of a bush pilot
>friend of his that timed his mags using a rubber band & a piece of
>cellophane -- he would just listen for the "snap" of the rubber band when
>the points opened & released the cellophane!! (the stuff that stays with
>you! I did get credit for it on a test! ;-)
>
>Mike C. in PP, KS
Neat! I like simple methods that I can apply.
J Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com (Carpenter, Joel) |
| Subject: | $15.00 mag will work |
while it is true that the mag is driven from the camshaft, the mag gear has
the same number of teeth as the crankshaft gear, which results in the mag
turning crankshaft speed. camshaft speed is one half crankshaft speed. in a
gear driven camshaft, the camshaft rotates in the opposite direction as the
crankshaft. the camshaft then drives the mag gear, resulting in the mag
rotating in the same direction as the crankshaft. this will allow the mag
to be driven directly off the end of the crankshaft with no problems. i
have purchesed some of these magnetos, and plan to using one on my model A
adjusted to rotate in either direction, as well as adjusting the timing.
the impulse coupler is easily changed for the opposite direction. these
mags have no gear on the drive, but drive from a slot in the mag gear
inside the engine. they are a great magnetos at an unbelievable price.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Mags and A's--some thoughts |
Our students build a kit timing light. If anyone is interested, I'll get the
details of where we get it and how much it costs.
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
> Regarding "reversing" mag direction, on Bendix mags the cam the points ride
> on is removable, allowing a person to use the same basic rotor for either
> direction. In fact, this is a favorite ploy of mechanic examiners: reverse
> the cam, hand the mag to a prospective mechanic and ask him to troubleshoot
> why it won't work. You'd be surprised (and dismayed) at the number of people
> who just can't grasp the idea of comparing what they have in their hand with
> what is described in the manual. I don't know of any easy way to adjust a
> Slick (Unison) mag internally for rotation. I think the "E" gap, or the
> point of null, is pretty much fixed.
>
> As for the timing box, I have the schematic for it around here somewhere.
> Used to require students to build their own. Taught them some about
> electronics, soldering, and just how the darned thing works. A more modern
> unit can be purchased from most supply houses for about $50.00 'merican, and
> is a snap to use. It is an excellent investment for anyone contemplating
> maintaining their own piece of flying history, or any aircraft for that
> matter.
>
> Ed
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main difference is
the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation, just
invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick didn't
give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to have to
buy parts.
The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they open,
the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
transformer.
Greg Yotz wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
> >There are two windings in the mag.
> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end and
> the
> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in parallel
> >with the points.
>
> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't you?
> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>
> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of the
> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit at
> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid collapse
> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be generated
>
> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in the
> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>
> ....
> >Hope this isn't confusing
> >
> >John Mc
> >
> >
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: The timing gadget |
Just a few notes, a good timing light has another function other than
just a continuity checker. It also grounds the mag so it won't fire. If
you do have the plugs in, to check timing you either need to turn the
mags on or disconnect the "P" lead. This will leave the mag hot and it
could fire as you turn the prop. If you have a combustible fuel air
mixture in the cylinder and the plug fires, the engine will start. If
you are in the way of the prop you will get hurt! You can use a
continuity checker but it won't provide the safety of a true timing
light.
walter evans wrote:
> For all of you guys who wanted this, This isn't fancy and you can
> make it at home. All that you need is a continuity light. You can use
> one of those flashlights with the alligator clip plug in if you have
> it. Or make it with a flashlight battery soldered to a flashlight bulb
> with some wires attached ( hook it up so that when the ends of the
> long test wires touch , the light comes on). First I would pull the
> plugs, so your not fighting the compression. Then hook the gadget
> with one wire end to the engine case (or ground) The other lead goes
> to the terminal out of the mag that would go to the kill switch on the
> dashboard( either disconnect the kill switch or put in on position,
> this is so not to have a parallel circuit).Now setting the timing, is
> to make the points open when the engine is in the exact BTDC degree
> position that is required in the CORRECT rotation. Have the bulb
> laying like on top of the engine so you can see it real well.Now
> rotate the prop so the timing mark starts at , say 9:00 and rotate
> till the light goes from full bright , to dimmer. This is the exact
> point that the points open. This should be right at the timing mark.
> If not loosen the mag hold down nuts and rotate slightly. When You get
> it correct tighten the mag and recheck the timing, it might move when
> it's tightened.Remember only check the mark to the bulb in the correct
> engine rotation( not each time when you turn it slightly backwards to
> try it again) When you check the impulse mag, you must pull it
> past the impulse click, then back up to a point that the points are
> closed but not far enough to get into the impulse. I haven't looked
> that close at my Continental 65 to know about timing marks, but the
> 1/2 VW , that Dick Lawson ( my AP) built for me, had a Bendix mag on
> it . Dick explained the right way to find TDC ( top dead center) of
> an engine that has no marks. If you just stick a screwdriver in a
> cyl. the piston will seem to be on top through quite a sweep of
> degrees of the crank. Heres what you do. He has a tool that fits in
> the sparkplug hole, but you can just make one. find a bolt or post(
> wood dowell would probably be good) and secure it somehow so that it
> will bump the top of the piston. Be careful not to damage the threads
> in spark plug hole. Make it hit as close to the top without letting
> it go over the top..When you are set, rotate the crank in one
> direction till it solidly bumps the stop. put a mark on the shaft to
> the split in the case( using this for refference, now rotate the other
> way till bump. Mark the crank to the same split in case.The space
> between these marks is the exact TDC. Do it this way because any
> looseness in rod bearing or wrist pin will be cancelled out . Mark it
> as TDC. then using a protractor measure in degrees to the right ( if
> clockwise rotation) and mark this as timing mark. This timing mark is
> the one to use with the light gadget.So the most you'll have to pay
> for the whole process , including battery, bulb, and protractor, is
> about $4:00.BE CAREFULL..... IF YOU TRY TO TIME WITH PLUGS IN AND
> WIRES ON, BY OPENING THE KILL SWITCH TO DO THE TEST, THE MAG WILL BE
> HOT AND THE ENGINE WILL FIRE. A mag that has the small wire
> disconnected is ready to run.Whew,walt PS Dick Lawson has taught me a
> wealth of building tips( but I'm sure I've only scratched his
> surface) Stuff like making a beautiful "back rivit joint" ( think I
> named it right) to make a flush flathead rivit joint like on the
> surface of a Cessna. With a simple homemade tool.OR. Annealling 6061
> aluminum to make it work like taffy without cracking, and how it
> rehardens.walt
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
Just a few notes, a good timing light has another function other than just
a continuity checker. It also grounds the mag so it won't fire. If you
do have the plugs in, to check timing you either need to turn the mags
on or disconnect the "P" lead. This will leave the mag hot and it could
fire as you turn the prop. If you have a combustible fuel air mixture in
the cylinder and the plug fires, the engine will start. If you are in the
way of the prop you will get hurt! You can use a continuity checker but
it won't provide the safety of a true timing light.
walter evans wrote:
For all
of you guys who wanted this,
This isn't fancy and you can make it at home. All that you need is a continuity
light. You can use one of those flashlights with the alligator clip
plug in if you have it. Or make it with a flashlight battery soldered to
a flashlight bulb with some wires attached ( hook it up so that when the
ends of the long test wires touch , the light comes on).First
I would pull the plugs, so your not fighting the compression. Then
hook the gadget with one wire end to the engine case (or ground) The other
lead goes to the terminal out of the mag that would go to the kill switch
on the dashboard( either disconnect the kill switch or put in on position,
this is so not to have a parallel circuit).Now
setting the timing, is to make the points open when the engine is in the
exact BTDC degree position that is required in the CORRECT rotation.
Have the bulb laying like on top of the engine so you can see it real well.Now
rotate the prop so the timing mark starts at , say 9:00 and rotate till
the light goes from full bright , to dimmer. This is the exact point
that the points open. This should be right at the timing mark.
If not loosen the mag hold down nuts and rotate slightly. When You get
it correct tighten the mag and recheck the timing, it might move when it's
tightened.Remember only
check the mark to the bulb in the correct engine rotation( not each time
when you turn it slightly backwards to try it again)
When you check the impulse mag, you must pull it past the impulse
click, then back up to a point that the points are closed but not far enough
to get into the impulse.
I haven't looked that close at my Continental 65 to know about timing marks,
but the 1/2 VW , that Dick Lawson ( my AP) built for me, had a Bendix
mag on it . Dick explained the right way to find TDC ( top dead center)
of an engine that has no marks. If you just stick a screwdriver in
a cyl. the piston will seem to be on top through quite a sweep of degrees
of the crank. Heres what you do. He has a tool that fits in
the sparkplug hole, but you can just make one. find a bolt or post( wood
dowell would probably be good) and secure it somehow so that it will bump
the top of the piston. Be careful not to damage the threads in spark
plug hole. Make it hit as close to the top without letting it go
over the top..When you
are set, rotate the crank in one direction till it solidly bumps the stop.
put a mark on the shaft to the split in the case( using this for refference,
now rotate the other way till bump. Mark the crank to the same split in
case.The space between
these marks is the exact TDC. Do it this way because any looseness
in rod bearing or wrist pin will be cancelled out . Mark it as TDC. then
using a protractor measure in degrees to the right ( if clockwise rotation)
and mark this as timing mark. This timing mark is the one to use
with the light gadget.So the most you'll have
to pay for the whole process , including battery, bulb, and protractor,
is about $4:00.BE CAREFULL..... IF YOU TRY TO TIME
WITH PLUGS IN AND WIRES ON, BY OPENING THE KILL SWITCH TO DO THE TEST,
THE MAG WILL BE HOT AND THE ENGINE WILL FIRE. A mag that has the
small wire disconnected is ready to run.Whew,waltPS
Dick Lawson has taught me a wealth of building tips( but I'm sure I've
only scratched his surface) Stuff like making a beautiful "back rivit
joint" ( think I named it right) to make a flush flathead rivit joint like
on the surface of a Cessna. With a simple homemade tool.OR.
Annealling 6061 aluminum sp> to make it work like taffy without cracking,
and how it rehardens.walt
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Chanter <mchanter(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
to:piet(at)byu.edu
hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
Best Regards, Mike Chanter
mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main difference is
the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation, just
invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick didn't
give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to have
to
buy parts.
The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they open,
the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
transformer.
Greg Yotz wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
> >There are two windings in the mag.
> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end and
> the
> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in parallel
> >with the points.
>
> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't you?
> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>
> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of the
> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit at
> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid collapse
> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be generated
>
> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in the
> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>
> ....
> >Hope this isn't confusing
> >
> >John Mc
> >
> >
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Mags and A's |
The surplus mags are at: Army Surplus Warehouse, 635 W. Broadway, PO. Box 1523,
Idaho Falls, ID. 83403 208-529-4753. Chad
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Chanter [SMTP:mchanter(at)ford.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 7:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
to:piet(at)byu.edu
hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
Best Regards, Mike Chanter
mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: $15.00 Magnetos |
Just called and ordered 2 mags They have over 100 left. Even if you never
use them they are a great deal! BTW does anyone know if they are shielded
or non shielded? Or is the difference only in the wiring harness to the
plugs?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Chad Johnson
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:25 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: $15.00 Magnetos
>
> Hello again group.
>
> I have had a large response to the magnetos I mentioned
> earlier so I will post the source here. Yes they really are
> $14.95 US. I sent a personal check to : Army Surplus
> Warehouse, 635 w. Broadway, P.O. Box 1523, Idaho Falls, ID.
> 83403, 208-529-4753. I opened one of mine and compared it
> side by side with a Slick taken from a Cont. O-200. Most
> part numbers are the same. Only slight differences in the
> case. I talked directly with Slick and they confirmed the
> quality. Niether they nor the supplier knows what type of
> engine these mags fit but that it was most likely a GPU
> (Ground Power Unit). They come brand new, sealed in the box.
> For 15.00 bucks it might be worth your money to find out if
> they would work for you. To be clear, I am not the supplier,
> I just wanted to pass along a possible bargin. Let me know
> what you think. Chad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy [SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:16 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
>
> >Sir;
> > Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look
> for
> >around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the
> grain or agin'
> >it...?"
> >Earl Myers
>
>
> I concur here with Earl and even if the FAA boys don't ask you this,
> you will sleep better at night if you follow the suggested patterns as
> shown in Tony Bingelis's books and other publications.
> The grain goes with the printing on both sheet alum. and 4130 sheet.
> Also file out ALL your saw marks on the edges of every fitting filing
> long wise on the fitting edges, not perpendicular. Corners should be
> radiused too- easy to do inside corners by drilling the corner first,
> then
> cutting to that point.
>
> Mike C.
>
> << File: ATT00016.html >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: $15.00 Magnetos |
My understanding is that only the cables are shielded.
Ken
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> Just called and ordered 2 mags They have over 100 left. Even if you never
> use them they are a great deal! BTW does anyone know if they are shielded
> or non shielded? Or is the difference only in the wiring harness to the
> plugs?
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Behalf Of Chad Johnson
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:25 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: $15.00 Magnetos
> >
> > Hello again group.
> >
> > I have had a large response to the magnetos I mentioned
> > earlier so I will post the source here. Yes they really are
> > $14.95 US. I sent a personal check to : Army Surplus
> > Warehouse, 635 w. Broadway, P.O. Box 1523, Idaho Falls, ID.
> > 83403, 208-529-4753. I opened one of mine and compared it
> > side by side with a Slick taken from a Cont. O-200. Most
> > part numbers are the same. Only slight differences in the
> > case. I talked directly with Slick and they confirmed the
> > quality. Niether they nor the supplier knows what type of
> > engine these mags fit but that it was most likely a GPU
> > (Ground Power Unit). They come brand new, sealed in the box.
> > For 15.00 bucks it might be worth your money to find out if
> > they would work for you. To be clear, I am not the supplier,
> > I just wanted to pass along a possible bargin. Let me know
> > what you think. Chad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael D Cuy [SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:16 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
> >
> > >Sir;
> > > Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look
> > for
> > >around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the
> > grain or agin'
> > >it...?"
> > >Earl Myers
> >
> >
> > I concur here with Earl and even if the FAA boys don't ask you this,
> > you will sleep better at night if you follow the suggested patterns as
> > shown in Tony Bingelis's books and other publications.
> > The grain goes with the printing on both sheet alum. and 4130 sheet.
> > Also file out ALL your saw marks on the edges of every fitting filing
> > long wise on the fitting edges, not perpendicular. Corners should be
> > radiused too- easy to do inside corners by drilling the corner first,
> > then
> > cutting to that point.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> > << File: ATT00016.html >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: $15.00 Magnetos |
Opps, before any one flames me, that should read "cables and plugs" ;-)
Ken
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Ken Beanlands wrote:
> My understanding is that only the cables are shielded.
>
> Ken
>
> On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> > Just called and ordered 2 mags They have over 100 left. Even if you never
> > use them they are a great deal! BTW does anyone know if they are shielded
> > or non shielded? Or is the difference only in the wiring harness to the
> > plugs?
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> > IT Services
> > Brigham Young University
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Behalf Of Chad Johnson
> > > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:25 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: $15.00 Magnetos
> > >
> > > Hello again group.
> > >
> > > I have had a large response to the magnetos I mentioned
> > > earlier so I will post the source here. Yes they really are
> > > $14.95 US. I sent a personal check to : Army Surplus
> > > Warehouse, 635 w. Broadway, P.O. Box 1523, Idaho Falls, ID.
> > > 83403, 208-529-4753. I opened one of mine and compared it
> > > side by side with a Slick taken from a Cont. O-200. Most
> > > part numbers are the same. Only slight differences in the
> > > case. I talked directly with Slick and they confirmed the
> > > quality. Niether they nor the supplier knows what type of
> > > engine these mags fit but that it was most likely a GPU
> > > (Ground Power Unit). They come brand new, sealed in the box.
> > > For 15.00 bucks it might be worth your money to find out if
> > > they would work for you. To be clear, I am not the supplier,
> > > I just wanted to pass along a possible bargin. Let me know
> > > what you think. Chad
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael D Cuy [SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
> > > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:16 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
> > >
> > > >Sir;
> > > > Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look
> > > for
> > > >around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the
> > > grain or agin'
> > > >it...?"
> > > >Earl Myers
> > >
> > >
> > > I concur here with Earl and even if the FAA boys don't ask you this,
> > > you will sleep better at night if you follow the suggested patterns as
> > > shown in Tony Bingelis's books and other publications.
> > > The grain goes with the printing on both sheet alum. and 4130 sheet.
> > > Also file out ALL your saw marks on the edges of every fitting filing
> > > long wise on the fitting edges, not perpendicular. Corners should be
> > > radiused too- easy to do inside corners by drilling the corner first,
> > > then
> > > cutting to that point.
> > >
> > > Mike C.
> > >
> > > << File: ATT00016.html >>
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Fabric covering - AFS |
Hi,
I thought I'd pass along an atricle I wrote for our local newsletter (I
also passed it on to Kitplanes with illusions of grandeur ;-). I am in the
process of using it as we speak. One of the Christavia has had his plane
covered with the same produce since 1986 and has no complaints at all.
They hage a web site at: <http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/>
The web page was developed by none other than the infamous Dick Starks,
that crazy member of the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. The Nieuports that they
fly are covered with AFS and they are big proponents of teh system.
So far, my wife has covered the tail and, as of Tuesday night, we are now
ready to start covering the fuselage. Well, almost, the pre-cover
inspection on Tuesday revealed no real problems but I still want to route
the aileron cables before we cover. It's really getting exciting now!
Ken
AFS Fabric Covering.
After weeks of reading about numerous covering systems I finally found
myself in Ennis Montana, the home of Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS). It
was midnight on March 6, 1999, when my wife, Rene, and I arrived at the
Rainbow Valley Motel, having driven 11 hours from Calgary, Alberta. The
motivation for such a trek was twofold. We had already ordered our
supplies for our Christavia MK1 homebuilt and since AFS had scheduled a
3-day course over that weekend, we decided to do the course and pick up
our supplies in person.
Ennis is a beautiful town (population 600) located in SW Montana
approximately 70 miles north of Yellowstone and situated on Route 287
between Butte and Bozeman. The Madison River, featured in the movie "A
River Runs Through It", runs through the town. During the summer, the town
is buzzing with tourists, but in early March, the only tourists come
equipped with their own snowmobiles to take on the snows of the park. When
we arrived, there were more snowmobiles in the parking lot than cars and
trucks combined.
The night we arrived, we told the very sleepy inn keeper we were here
taking a course for airplane covering and asked if he knew where AFS was
located. He replied "Paul and Tammy? Yeh, they're out at the airport -
just keep south on this road about 5 miles and you can't miss it." I HAD
asked Tammy for directions before leaving but didn't bother to write them
down. After all, we men don't need no stinkin directions. So, at 8:45 the
next morning we get on the road for our 9:00 class.
Sure enough, we found the airport and a large hangar that looked
promising. As we approached, however, we noticed a distinct lack of fresh
tire tracks or footprints in the snow. We walked to the hangar to find it
quite deserted, but unlocked. Fortunately, there was a phone and a phone
book. I called Tammy and she only laughed a little as she gave me
directions to get to their shop - a couple of miles NORTH of the town.
As I got in the truck, grumbling, Rene smiled and asked why I didn't get
the directions when I arranged for the course. She knew better than to
expect a response from that one.
A Little Background
AFS was started a year and a half ago by Paul and Tammy Yedinak after a 15
year association with the Blue River 7600 process. Blue River Aircraft
acquired the Eonex covering process in the early 80's. The original
process employed Ceconite fabric attached with a two-part cement/activator
gluing process and sealed with the 7601 filler coat, an early version of
CecoFill. A two-part epoxy paint was used to finish the fabric. In 1991,
a one part, water soluble cement called CecoBond was developed, tested and
added to the 7600 process replacing the old cement.
After trying numerous covering systems, Paul and Tammy first used the Blue
River 7600 process to cover a Super Cub in Miles City, Montana in 1982. By
the early 90's they were fielding Blue River Aircraft technical support
calls, taking orders, troubleshooting and performing R&D. In April, 1997
Tammy formed a small company called Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) and
added an 800 line to more formally handle the Blue River support calls.
Six months later, AFS took over the Blue River line of fabric products and
became a Ceconite distributor. At about the same time, AFS added their
own water borne epoxy primers and top coats to the product line to
complete their fabric covering system.
In its current form, the AFS covering process consists of the primer for
the base structure (yet unnamed), the glue used to adhere the fabric to
the structure (CecoBond), the combination fill coat and UV block
(CecoFill), and the top coats. Ceconite is the fabric called for in the
STC covering this process, but the system will work with competitive
fabrics as well. Rounding out the product line are the all-important
training seminars that AFS offers. There will soon be an instructional
video available which may actually include our class. I'll have to get my
speech ready "I'd like to thank all the little people who helped me win
this Oscar for 'Best Supporting Actor in an Aviation How-To Video' ....."
Over the years since first using the Blue River 7600 process, they have
rebuilt and covered numerous aircraft including several PA-12's as well as
an SNJ trainer, the Navy version of the AT-6. They are currently covering
a Beech Staggerwing and just finished a Scout tow plane. Paul is an AI and
taught Tammy the basics of covering aircraft. From there, she perfected
the technique and does beautiful detail work. This was evident in the last
plane they did using all straight tapes. Tammy was not entirely pleased
with the end result and called the client to tell him that if he wasn't
satisfied, they could do it again. The owner came in and was more than
pleased with the finish and commenting that "It's just a tow plane". This
became the buzz phrase for the weekend. Whenever we made a mistake or did
something that wasn't to Tammy's standards, we'd come back with " Don't
worry, it's just a tow plane"
Back to Class
The class itself was quite unique. In addition to Rene and I, there was
another couple, Mike and his fianc, Tracy. They are building an Avid Flyer
in Butte, about one and a half hours away. This was the first time AFS had
any women taking the class. The six of us clicked together quite well and
ended up having a great time.
Working in our pairs, we started with some mock elevator control surfaces
that Paul had welded up for the class. The first step was to add the
multipurpose tape along each of the "ribs". This prevents chafing of the
fabric when the rib stitches are applied. This tape is a self adhesive,
woven tape similar to the tape used on hockey sticks.
Then out came the glue. The CecoBond glue is similar to contact cement in
the way that it works. It starts out as a liquid and sets up into a
flexible but incredibly strong rubber-like substance. It was painted on
the perimeter of the surface using 1" brushes. One of the neat tricks they
showed us was to glue the bottom half of a small (2-4 oz) paper cup to a
paper plate. Another cup is filled with glue and placed in the half cup.
This forms a kind of "cup and saucer" rig that can be placed anywhere on
the fabric with little fear of it tipping over.
The fabric is laid on the frame once the glue becomes tacky, then more
glue is forced down through the fabric. This is where a little practice
comes in - using too much glue can cause problems in the later stages of
covering with the fabric "dimpling" on the frame and having to be pulled
up later. The glue is also the sealer, which means that forcing more glue
into that section of fabric becomes impossible and the adhesion is
compromised. Tammy and Paul have discovered that dry glue can be removed
from irons, scissors and fingers with an industrial gum eraser. These
erasers can be found at lumberyards where they are used for cleaning
sanding disks. It is also useful to remove excess surface glue from the
fabric once it has dried. Since the glue is water soluble, water will
also help in the clean up while the glue is still wet.
When we finished applying the fabric, it was shrunk using an iron set to
about 270 degrees. This pre-shrinking stage takes the slack from the
fabric. We then started on the other side of our surface using the same
procedure as above. This side is tricky as well because you have to try to
apply the glue and fabric without interfering with the first side as well
as worrying about not letting the fabric dimple. We ended up having to
live with a couple of dimples as yours truly got a little carried away
with slopping on the glue. Oh well, it's just a tow-plane!
The other interesting part was forming the fabric around the curved
corners of the control surface. Tammy gave us two choices - the first was
to cut the overlap into small strips and let them overlap each other as
you came around the curve. The second, and more desirable, is to shrink
the fabric with an iron around the curve. This was fairly easy to do with
the 1" overlap on the main sheets of fabric. However, when we started
taping, Tammy suggested we use a 3" tape to form around the corner as a
worst case scenario. We ironed those tapes for what seemed like hours.
Tracy ended up being the envy of the group as her corner of the control
was amazingly smooth and tight. Rene and I ended up with some wrinkles by
using too much heat at the beginning.
While Tammy was out of the room for a couple of minutes, Paul suggested an
alternative method for getting out those wrinkles. He snuck out and
appeared a moment later, menacingly brandishing a heat gun. With an evil
grin he approached the control surface, fire belching from the muzzle of
the gun. Just as he was about to hit our surface with a couple of thousand
BTU's, Tammy walked through the door. She LOOKED at him and he looked at
her like a kid who has just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
He tried to protest, using the argument that "if they are going to do it
wrong, they should at least know how to do it right". Tammy was unmoved.
He did admit that using a heat gun was a definite no-no, but after all,
this was only a tow plane.
But before we got to the taping, we had to try our hand at rib stitching.
Despite the stigma that has arisen around how difficult it is to
rib-stitch, it is actually fairly easy. Regardless of how light your plane
is, I think that it is imperative that there be something more than a glue
joint holding the fabric in place whether it be screws, rivets, wire or
lacing. If you do decide to rib-stitch, the flat cord seems to work a lot
nicer than the round. We ended up adding a second layer of reinforcement
tape over the round cord stitches after they were done to prevent
accidentally sanding through the stitch in the finishing process.
While working on the Staggerwing, Paul and Tammy came across a rather easy
stitch in the maintenance manual. Affectionately called the Staggerwing
stitch, it is a lot easier than commonly used seine stitch.
We also added inspection rings and control fairleads to our control. The
rings are glued to the surface and covered with a patch. Fairleads, used
where control cables or support wires pass through the fabric, were cut
from a synthetic fabric material and simply glued to the surface.
Fiberglass can also be used and covered with a Ceconite patch to make a
smoother transition.
The next step is sealing the fabric, which is done by using thinned (five
percent distilled water) CecoBond, applied with a foam brush. A very thin
coating is all that's necessary. Rene was the queen of coating getting a
perfect even finish. As a man, I must say that it's far more masculine to
have that light blue color rather than the girlie pink color that you end
up with using the PolyFiber process.
Finally, it was on to the spray shop. Paul has set up the second bay of
their office area with a small, folding spray booth. Since the materials
are non-toxic, all that's really needed is a charcoal mask. However, to
keep down the dust level, he also suggests using a small, filtered
discharge fan. Usually, these fans would be vented outside, but in this
application it's just used to filter the paint dust out of the air and
discharges back into the room.
Since Paul had recommended an HVLP spray paint gun, I shopped around prior
to our trip and found that most of them cost more than my compressor!
Then - success - I stumbled across a Star 950 HVLP gun at House of Tools
here in Calgary that was only $150 CDN. As I was unsure of how it would
work, I decided to buy it and take it with me for the course.
In Paul's expert hands, the gun was all set up in less than 15 minutes.
The verdict was that it was more than adequate to do the job. The more
expensive guns do atomize the paint better at a lower pressure. However,
similar results were also achievable with the Star gun using slightly
higher pressures. For a professional, this would certainly be an issue as
more overspray is generated. However, for an amateur painting one plane,
it is ideal.
In the paint booth, the CecoFill is sprayed on first. It's a dark gray,
high solids coating that both fills the weave as well as provides a UV
barrier. Due to the thickness of CecoFill, Paul suggests using a filter
made from an insect screen (like in your windows at home) to strain it
into the paint gun. Four mist coats were sprayed in a crisscrossed pattern
(vertically for one coat, horizontally for the next). Following this, the
control was sanded with 260-grit sandpaper to get rid of any
imperfections. This process was repeated twice before a final sanding with
400-grit paper.
Finally - the moment of truth - applying the topcoats. This is a fairly
conventional step and anyone with experience with paint guns will be
comfortable with using the supplied paints. When we the process was
complete and dry, the fabric was ripped of the frame to take home as a
trophy. Obviously, this is one step you may want to skip when covering
your own plane.
Graduation
In all, we spent about 24 hours in the class over two and a half days. It
was definitely the most enjoyable class I have ever attended. I didn't get
any detention for talking in class or for taunting Paul and his heat gun.
Even if you don't plan on using their system, you can't go wrong with
taking their course. The products they sell, however, are worth
considering especially if you want to avoid the harmful solvents contained
in most paints. Personally, because we have an attached garage, we would
have to rent space to cover the airplane because of the possible toxins.
Their products are as good as any other products currently available and I
would recommend their system without hesitation. Don't let the size of the
operation fool you. The Yedinaks are very professional and capable to
handle your covering needs. In fact, the small size makes them quite
refreshing to deal with. They know exactly what we are building and I
don't have to explain my project every time I call for support. They are
even reachable on Saturdays if you get in a bind. I will do a follow up
article when we start covering the Christavia, which had better start
quickly as Rene is already eyeing things around the house to start
covering.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | RE: $15.00 Magnetos |
Just brought 4 new Slick Magnetos from
these folks at 12:27pm Dallas time. Jake
says they still have over 100 mags left.
Nearly 30 were sold earlier today.
Slick model number is 4220
Right rotation.
$14.95 each
Comes with mounting instructions etc..
Mike King
Dallas
>Opps, before any one flames me, that should read "cables and plugs" ;-)
>
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Ken Beanlands wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that only the cables are shielded.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>>
>> > Just called and ordered 2 mags They have over 100 left. Even if you
never
>> > use them they are a great deal! BTW does anyone know if they are
shielded
>> > or non shielded? Or is the difference only in the wiring harness to the
>> > plugs?
>> >
>> > Steve Eldredge
>> > IT Services
>> > Brigham Young University
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > Behalf Of Chad Johnson
>> > > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 11:25 AM
>> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > > Subject: $15.00 Magnetos
>> > >
>> > > Hello again group.
>> > >
>> > > I have had a large response to the magnetos I mentioned
>> > > earlier so I will post the source here. Yes they really are
>> > > $14.95 US. I sent a personal check to : Army Surplus
>> > > Warehouse, 635 w. Broadway, P.O. Box 1523, Idaho Falls, ID.
>> > > 83403, 208-529-4753. I opened one of mine and compared it
>> > > side by side with a Slick taken from a Cont. O-200. Most
>> > > part numbers are the same. Only slight differences in the
>> > > case. I talked directly with Slick and they confirmed the
>> > > quality. Niether they nor the supplier knows what type of
>> > > engine these mags fit but that it was most likely a GPU
>> > > (Ground Power Unit). They come brand new, sealed in the box.
>> > > For 15.00 bucks it might be worth your money to find out if
>> > > they would work for you. To be clear, I am not the supplier,
>> > > I just wanted to pass along a possible bargin. Let me know
>> > > what you think. Chad
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Michael D Cuy [SMTP:Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov]
>> > > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:16 AM
>> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> > > Subject: Re: Fw: grain in 4130 sheets
>> > >
>> > > >Sir;
>> > > > Engineering matters aside, one of the first things the FAA guys look
>> > > for
>> > > >around here is just that......."...did ya bend with the
>> > > grain or agin'
>> > > >it...?"
>> > > >Earl Myers
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I concur here with Earl and even if the FAA boys don't ask you this,
>> > > you will sleep better at night if you follow the suggested patterns as
>> > > shown in Tony Bingelis's books and other publications.
>> > > The grain goes with the printing on both sheet alum. and 4130 sheet.
>> > > Also file out ALL your saw marks on the edges of every fitting filing
>> > > long wise on the fitting edges, not perpendicular. Corners should be
>> > > radiused too- easy to do inside corners by drilling the corner first,
>> > > then
>> > > cutting to that point.
>> > >
>> > > Mike C.
>> > >
>> > > << File: ATT00016.html >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Jim Vandervort, are you out there ? |
Hello Jim !!!
If you are within the sound of my typing, would you please e-mail me
with your home address so I can fire off a NORADO postcard to you
for our flight to Osh ??
Thanks,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cherie and Jeremy <jvisker(at)snet.net> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
Hi Everyone,
As soon as I told my IA about the Army Surplus (208-529-4555) mags he
called within one minute and ordered four. He was so enthused I ordered ten
more. How can you beat the price? Even if they are not useable you could
donate them to an A&P school and take a tax write off. Randall Reihing
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
Mike,
Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call 208-529-4555, ask for Jake.
>
>to:piet(at)byu.edu
>
>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
>
>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
>
>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
>
>From: David B. Schober
>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>
>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
difference is
>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation, just
>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick
didn't
>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to have
> to
>buy parts.
>
>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they
open,
>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
>transformer.
>
>Greg Yotz wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>
>> >There are two windings in the mag.
>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end and
>> the
>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
parallel
>> >with the points.
>>
>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't you?
>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>>
>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of the
>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit at
>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid collapse
>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be generated
>>
>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
>> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in the
>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>>
>> ....
>> >Hope this isn't confusing
>> >
>> >John Mc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>--
>
>David B.Schober, CPE
>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>Fairmont State College
>National Aerospace Education Center
>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>(304) 842-8300
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: $15.00 Magnetos |
Michael King wrote:
>
> Just brought 4 new Slick Magnetos from
> these folks at 12:27pm Dallas time. Jake
> says they still have over 100 mags left.
> Nearly 30 were sold earlier today.
>
> Slick model number is 4220
> Right rotation.
>
> $14.95 each
> Comes with mounting instructions etc..
Just ordered my 2, don't know what I'll do with 'em,
but at $15 each I figured what the heck.
They don't have 6 cylinder mags :(
but he did offer to put me on the mailing list.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I'm looking at the AC spruce catalog,,,at tailwheels, and am not so sure
which one I should buy for my super ace.
Gross wt 1100 lbs
I'd like one that is steerable, and also a spring to go with it.
Page 206 has one that has a 4" wheel, options are for a 20, or 45 degree
spring angle.
Also page 209 there are some others. I preferr a light one if possible to
keep weight out of the tail.
Does any one have any suggestions ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
What is the shipping on those magneto's
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
I used airtech on my piet,it produces an awsome finish!
Doug
The Blue River process, I agree, I don't seen how it was ever approve=
d, Air
Tech told us that when they were doing their comparison testing the B=
lue
River was dropped off the list because they could not even make good
test
samples for comparison.=A0 Piper Aircraft did cover several productio=
n Super
Cubs with Blue River and we at Special Products did several contract
redos
for them using Air Tech.=A0 I could not believe my eyes when we remov=
ed the
Blue River process.=A0 Just a little trivia here -- Piper elected the=
Air
Tech covering process on the last 100 Super Cubs that were produced a=
t Vero
Beach and the Air Tech covering process is listed on the Type Certifi=
cate
Data Sheet as the factory approved process, so if they go back into
production the Air Tech covering process will be the factory choice.
I have seen some terrrible cracking problems on Ag aircraft and oth=
ers,
because automotive enamel and polyurethane was sprayed over butyrate
finish
trying to get that chemical resistance or wet look.=A0 They got terri=
ble
cracking instead.=A0 As everyone should know the cosmetic finish coas=
ts on
any fabric covering process is not part of the approved fabric coveri=
ng
process, but one should use a topcoat made for fabric also.=A0 Just a=
nother
work of trivia here - the Air Tech fabric covering process is the onl=
y
process approved in Canada for restricted category aircraft.
I have seen many butyrate covering jobs that have cracked or peeled a=
nd
many that have not, but close examination of the ones that have crack=
ed or
peeled revealed one most important characteristic that is common to m=
ost
cracking or peeling problems and that is material buildup.=A0 Materia=
l
buildup is the evil of a fabirc covering job no matter what system is=
used,
so beware of stacking up material as it also gains weight and will no=
t give
you the full life you expect.=A0 I feel that all standard category ai=
rcraft
shoud be recovered every 20 years and all restricted and acrobatic ca=
tegory
or working aircraft should be recovered every 10 years, not because o=
f the
fabric deterioration but because of the needed structural upkeep insi=
de of
the aircraft.
I hope all of this is of some use to everyone and just remember that
is why
there is vanilla and chocolate and if your system works for you and y=
ou are
making money, saving time, enjoy sanding, waiting for the correct wea=
ther
conditions and your customer is happyt don't change - keep up the goo=
d
work.
I will be glad to share with anyone ideas and thoughts in making any
fabric
covering system better and I can truly accept constructive suggestion=
s --
Give me a call, I like new ideas and helpful hints also.
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Fabric covering - AFS
> Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 10:42 AM
>
> Hi,
>
> I thought I'd pass along an atricle I wrote for our local newslette=
r (I
> also passed it on to Kitplanes with illusions of grandeur ;-). I am=
in
the
> process of using it as we speak. One of the Christavia has had his
plane
> covered with the same produce since 1986 and has no complaints at a=
ll.
>
> They hage a web site at: <http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/>
>
> The web page was developed by none other than the infamous Dick Sta=
rks,
> that crazy member of the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. The Nieuports tha=
t they
> fly are covered with AFS and they are big proponents of teh system.=
>
> So far, my wife has covered the tail and, as of Tuesday night, we a=
re now
> ready to start covering the fuselage. Well, almost, the pre-cover
> inspection on Tuesday revealed no real problems but I still want to=
route
> the aileron cables before we cover. It's really getting exciting no=
w!
>
> Ken
>
>
**
>
> When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk with your ey=
es
> turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always b=
e.
**
>
> AFS Fabric Covering.
>
> After weeks of reading about numerous covering systems I finally fo=
und
> myself in Ennis Montana, the home of Aircraft Finishing Systems (AF=
S). It
> was midnight on March 6, 1999, when my wife, Rene, and I arrived at=
the
> Rainbow Valley Motel, having driven 11 hours from Calgary, Alberta.=
The
> motivation for such a trek was twofold. We had already ordered our
> supplies for our Christavia MK1 homebuilt and since AFS had schedul=
ed a
> 3-day course over that weekend, we decided to do the course and pic=
k up
> our supplies in person.
>
> Ennis is a beautiful town (population 600) located in SW Montana
> approximately 70 miles north of Yellowstone and situated on Route 2=
87
> between Butte and Bozeman. The Madison River, featured in the movie=
"A
> River Runs Through It", runs through the town. During the summer, t=
he
town
> is buzzing with tourists, but in early March, the only tourists com=
e
> equipped with their own snowmobiles to take on the snows of the par=
k.
When
> we arrived, there were more snowmobiles in the parking lot than car=
s and
> trucks combined.
>
> The night we arrived, we told the very sleepy inn keeper we were he=
re
> taking a course for airplane covering and asked if he knew where AF=
S was
> located. He replied "Paul and Tammy? Yeh, they're out at the airp=
ort -
> just keep south on this road about 5 miles and you can't miss it."
I HAD
> asked Tammy for directions before leaving but didn't bother to writ=
e them
> down. After all, we men don't need no stinkin directions. So, at 8=
:45
the
> next morning we get on the road for our 9:00 class.
>
> Sure enough, we found the airport and a large hangar that looked
> promising. As we approached, however, we noticed a distinct lack o=
f
fresh
> tire tracks or footprints in the snow. We walked to the hangar to f=
ind it
> quite deserted, but unlocked. Fortunately, there was a phone and a
phone
> book. I called Tammy and she only laughed a little as she gave me
> directions to get to their shop - a couple of miles NORTH of the to=
wn.
>
> As I got in the truck, grumbling, Rene smiled and asked why I didn'=
t get
> the directions when I arranged for the course. She knew better than=
to
> expect a response from that one.
>
> A Little Background
>
> AFS was started a year and a half ago by Paul and Tammy Yedinak aft=
er a
15
> year association with the Blue River 7600 process. Blue River Aircr=
aft
> acquired the Eonex covering process in the early 80's. The original
> process employed Ceconite fabric attached with a two-part
cement/activator
> gluing process and sealed with the 7601 filler coat, an early versi=
on of
> CecoFill. A two-part epoxy paint was used to finish the fabric. In=
1991,
> a one part, water soluble cement called CecoBond was developed, tes=
ted
and
> added to the 7600 process replacing the old cement.
>
> After trying numerous covering systems, Paul and Tammy first used t=
he
Blue
> River 7600 process to cover a Super Cub in Miles City, Montana in 1=
982.
By
> the early 90's they were fielding Blue River Aircraft technical sup=
port
> calls, taking orders, troubleshooting and performing R&D. In April,=
1997
> Tammy formed a small company called Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS=
) and
> added an 800 line to more formally handle the Blue River support ca=
lls.
> Six months later, AFS took over the Blue River line of fabric produ=
cts
and
> became a Ceconite distributor. At about the same time, AFS added t=
heir
> own water borne epoxy primers and top coats to the product line to
> complete their fabric covering system.
>
> In its current form, the AFS covering process consists of the prime=
r for
> the base structure (yet unnamed), the glue used to adhere the fabri=
c to
> the structure (CecoBond), the combination fill coat and UV block
> (CecoFill), and the top coats. Ceconite is the fabric called for in=
the
> STC covering this process, but the system will work with competitiv=
e
> fabrics as well. Rounding out the product line are the all-importa=
nt
> training seminars that AFS offers. There will soon be an instructio=
nal
> video available which may actually include our class. I'll have to
get my
> speech ready "I'd like to thank all the little people who helped me=
win
> this Oscar for 'Best Supporting Actor in an Aviation How-To Video'
....."
>
> Over the years since first using the Blue River 7600 process, they
have
> rebuilt and covered numerous aircraft including several PA-12's as
well
as
> an SNJ trainer, the Navy version of the AT-6. They are currently co=
vering
> a Beech Staggerwing and just finished a Scout tow plane. Paul is an=
AI
and
> taught Tammy the basics of covering aircraft. From there, she perfe=
cted
> the technique and does beautiful detail work. This was evident in t=
he
last
> plane they did using all straight tapes. Tammy was not entirely ple=
ased
> with the end result and called the client to tell him that if he wa=
sn't
> satisfied, they could do it again. The owner came in and was more t=
han
> pleased with the finish and commenting that "It's just a tow plane"=
. This
> became the buzz phrase for the weekend. Whenever we made a mistake
or did
> something that wasn't to Tammy's standards, we'd come back with " D=
on't
> worry, it's just a tow plane"
>
>
> Back to Class
>
> The class itself was quite unique. In addition to Rene and I, there=
was
> another couple, Mike and his fianc, Tracy. They are building an Avi=
d
Flyer
> in Butte, about one and a half hours away. This was the first time
AFS
had
> any women taking the class. The six of us clicked together quite we=
ll and
> ended up having a great time.
>
> Working in our pairs, we started with some mock elevator control su=
rfaces
> that Paul had welded up for the class. The first step was to add th=
e
> multipurpose tape along each of the "ribs". This prevents chafing o=
f the
> fabric when the rib stitches are applied. This tape is a self adhes=
ive,
> woven tape similar to the tape used on hockey sticks.
>
> Then out came the glue. The CecoBond glue is similar to contact cem=
ent in
> the way that it works. It starts out as a liquid and sets up into a
> flexible but incredibly strong rubber-like substance. It was painte=
d on
> the perimeter of the surface using 1" brushes. One of the neat tric=
ks
they
> showed us was to glue the bottom half of a small (2-4 oz) paper cup=
to a
> paper plate. Another cup is filled with glue and placed in the hal=
f cup.
> This forms a kind of "cup and saucer" rig that can be placed anywhe=
re on
> the fabric with little fear of it tipping over.
>
> The fabric is laid on the frame once the glue becomes tacky, then m=
ore
> glue is forced down through the fabric. This is where a little prac=
tice
> comes in - using too much glue can cause problems in the later stag=
es of
> covering with the fabric "dimpling" on the frame and having to be p=
ulled
> up later. The glue is also the sealer, which means that forcing mo=
re
glue
> into that section of fabric becomes impossible and the adhesion is
> compromised. Tammy and Paul have discovered that dry glue can be r=
emoved
> from irons, scissors and fingers with an industrial gum eraser. Th=
ese
> erasers can be found at lumberyards where they are used for cleanin=
g
> sanding disks. It is also useful to remove excess surface glue from=
the
> fabric once it has dried. Since the glue is water soluble, water w=
ill
> also help in the clean up while the glue is still wet.
>
> When we finished applying the fabric, it was shrunk using an iron s=
et to
> about 270 degrees. This pre-shrinking stage takes the slack from th=
e
> fabric. We then started on the other side of our surface using the=
same
> procedure as above. This side is tricky as well because you have to=
try
to
> apply the glue and fabric without interfering with the first side a=
s well
> as worrying about not letting the fabric dimple. We ended up havin=
g to
> live with a couple of dimples as yours truly got a little carried a=
way
> with slopping on the glue. Oh well, it's just a tow-plane!
>
> The other interesting part was forming the fabric around the curved
> corners of the control surface. Tammy gave us two choices - the fi=
rst
was
> to cut the overlap into small strips and let them overlap each othe=
r as
> you came around the curve. The second, and more desirable, is to sh=
rink
> the fabric with an iron around the curve. This was fairly easy to d=
o with
> the 1" overlap on the main sheets of fabric. However, when we star=
ted
> taping, Tammy suggested we use a 3" tape to form around the corner
as a
> worst case scenario. We ironed those tapes for what seemed like hou=
rs.
> Tracy ended up being the envy of the group as her corner of the con=
trol
> was amazingly smooth and tight. Rene and I ended up with some wrin=
kles
by
> using too much heat at the beginning.
>
> While Tammy was out of the room for a couple of minutes, Paul sugge=
sted
an
> alternative method for getting out those wrinkles. He snuck out an=
d
> appeared a moment later, menacingly brandishing a heat gun. With a=
n evil
> grin he approached the control surface, fire belching from the muzz=
le of
> the gun. Just as he was about to hit our surface with a couple of
thousand
> BTU's, Tammy walked through the door. She LOOKED at him and he loo=
ked at
> her like a kid who has just been caught with his hand in the cookie=
jar.
> He tried to protest, using the argument that "if they are going to
do it
> wrong, they should at least know how to do it right". Tammy was un=
moved.
> He did admit that using a heat gun was a definite no-no, but after
all,
> this was only a tow plane.
>
> But before we got to the taping, we had to try our hand at rib stit=
ching.
> Despite the stigma that has arisen around how difficult it is to
> rib-stitch, it is actually fairly easy. Regardless of how light you=
r
plane
> is, I think that it is imperative that there be something more than=
a
glue
> joint holding the fabric in place whether it be screws, rivets, wir=
e or
> lacing. If you do decide to rib-stitch, the flat cord seems to work=
a lot
> nicer than the round. We ended up adding a second layer of reinforc=
ement
> tape over the round cord stitches after they were done to prevent
> accidentally sanding through the stitch in the finishing process.=
>
> While working on the Staggerwing, Paul and Tammy came across a rath=
er
easy
> stitch in the maintenance manual. Affectionately called the Stagger=
wing
> stitch, it is a lot easier than commonly used seine stitch.
>
> We also added inspection rings and control fairleads to our control=
. The
> rings are glued to the surface and covered with a patch. Fairleads,=
used
> where control cables or support wires pass through the fabric, were=
cut
> from a synthetic fabric material and simply glued to the surface.
> Fiberglass can also be used and covered with a Ceconite patch to ma=
ke a
> smoother transition.
>
> The next step is sealing the fabric, which is done by using thinned=
(five
> percent distilled water) CecoBond, applied with a foam brush. A ver=
y thin
> coating is all that's necessary. Rene was the queen of coating gett=
ing a
> perfect even finish. As a man, I must say that it's far more mascul=
ine to
> have that light blue color rather than the girlie pink color that y=
ou end
> up with using the PolyFiber process.
>
> Finally, it was on to the spray shop. Paul has set up the second ba=
y of
> their office area with a small, folding spray booth. Since the mate=
rials
> are non-toxic, all that's really needed is a charcoal mask. However=
, to
> keep down the dust level, he also suggests using a small, filtered
> discharge fan. Usually, these fans would be vented outside, but in=
this
> application it's just used to filter the paint dust out of the air
and
> discharges back into the room.
>
> Since Paul had recommended an HVLP spray paint gun, I shopped aroun=
d
prior
> to our trip and found that most of them cost more than my compresso=
r!
> Then - success - I stumbled across a Star 950 HVLP gun at House of
Tools
> here in Calgary that was only $150 CDN. As I was unsure of how it
would
> work, I decided to buy it and take it with me for the course.
>
> In Paul's expert hands, the gun was all set up in less than 15 minu=
tes.
> The verdict was that it was more than adequate to do the job. The m=
ore
> expensive guns do atomize the paint better at a lower pressure. How=
ever,
> similar results were also achievable with the Star gun using slight=
ly
> higher pressures. For a professional, this would certainly be an is=
sue as
> more overspray is generated. However, for an amateur painting one p=
lane,
> it is ideal.
>
> In the paint booth, the CecoFill is sprayed on first. It's a dark g=
ray,
> high solids coating that both fills the weave as well as provides a=
UV
> barrier. Due to the thickness of CecoFill, Paul suggests using a f=
ilter
> made from an insect screen (like in your windows at home) to strain=
it
> into the paint gun. Four mist coats were sprayed in a crisscrossed
pattern
> (vertically for one coat, horizontally for the next). Following th=
is,
the
> control was sanded with 260-grit sandpaper to get rid of any
> imperfections. This process was repeated twice before a final sandi=
ng
with
> 400-grit paper.
>
> Finally - the moment of truth - applying the topcoats. This is a fa=
irly
> conventional step and anyone with experience with paint guns will b=
e
> comfortable with using the supplied paints. When we the process wa=
s
> complete and dry, the fabric was ripped of the frame to take home a=
s a
> trophy. Obviously, this is one step you may want to skip when cover=
ing
> your own plane.
>
> Graduation
>
> In all, we spent about 24 hours in the class over two and a half da=
ys. It
> was definitely the most enjoyable class I have ever attended. I did=
n't
get
> any detention for talking in class or for taunting Paul and his hea=
t gun.
> Even if you don't plan on using their system, you can't go wrong wi=
th
> taking their course. The products they sell, however, are worth
> considering especially if you want to avoid the harmful solvents
contained
> in most paints. Personally, because we have an attached garage, we=
would
> have to rent space to cover the airplane because of the possible to=
xins.
>
> Their products are as good as any other products currently availabl=
e and
I
> would recommend their system without hesitation. Don't let the size=
of
the
> operation fool you. The Yedinaks are very professional and capable
to
> handle your covering needs. In fact, the small size makes them quit=
e
> refreshing to deal with. They know exactly what we are building and=
I
> don't have to explain my project every time I call for support. The=
y are
> even reachable on Saturdays if you get in a bind. I will do a follo=
w up
> article when we start covering the Christavia, which had better sta=
rt
> quickly as Rene is already eyeing things around the house to start
> covering.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HotelPaPa6(at)aol.com |
Im building a piet and have about 1300 hours in a Maule. Save wt. but without
a doubt get one that is steerable.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
I was told about $7 to southern Ohio via UPS.
>What is the shipping on those magneto's
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com (Carpenter, Joel) |
| Subject: | Fw: $15.00 mag will work |
> From: Joel Carpenter <CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com>
> To: Ken Beanlands
> Subject: Re: $15.00 mag will work
> Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:36 AM
>
> yes, they do have impulse couplers on them, but, as stated, it is for a
> right direction.
> to change direction, a left rotation coupler will have to be obtainsd.
> internally, the driven gear has a left and right rotation mark. a small
> drill can be used if the slick timing pin is not available. these mags
> would work with no changing if it is driven from the cam gear, where the
> governer was mounted on the truck and industrial model A engines.
>
> ----------
> > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > To: Carpenter, Joel
> > Subject: Re: $15.00 mag will work
> > Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 12:07 PM
> >
> > I still haven't recieved mine yet, but they have been shipped. What the
> > sales guy couldn't tell me was wether or not there was an impulse
couple
> > on them. Is there?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ken
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Carpenter, Joel wrote:
> >
> > > while it is true that the mag is driven from the camshaft, the mag
gear
> has
> > > the same number of teeth as the crankshaft gear, which results in the
> mag
> > > turning crankshaft speed. camshaft speed is one half crankshaft
speed.
> in a
> > > gear driven camshaft, the camshaft rotates in the opposite direction
as
> the
> > > crankshaft. the camshaft then drives the mag gear, resulting in the
mag
> > > rotating in the same direction as the crankshaft. this will allow the
> mag
> > > to be driven directly off the end of the crankshaft with no problems.
i
> > > have purchesed some of these magnetos, and plan to using one on my
> model A
> > > adjusted to rotate in either direction, as well as adjusting the
> timing.
> > > the impulse coupler is easily changed for the opposite direction.
these
> > > mags have no gear on the drive, but drive from a slot in the mag gear
> > > inside the engine. they are a great magnetos at an unbelievable
price.
> > >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
I have the Matco 4inch steerable full swivel unit. It is ok. I have flown
the heath non-swivelling, but a better and lighter TW if you ask me.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of oil
> can
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:09 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: tail wheel
>
>
> I'm looking at the AC spruce catalog,,,at tailwheels, and am
> not so sure
> which one I should buy for my super ace.
>
> Gross wt 1100 lbs
>
> I'd like one that is steerable, and also a spring to go with it.
>
> Page 206 has one that has a 4" wheel, options are for a 20,
> or 45 degree
> spring angle.
>
> Also page 209 there are some others. I preferr a light one if
> possible to
> keep weight out of the tail.
>
> Does any one have any suggestions ?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Man it is late. delete the *but* in the previous message.
Good night...
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> steve(at)byu.edu
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 2:00 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: tail wheel
>
>
> I have the Matco 4inch steerable full swivel unit. It is ok.
> I have flown
> the heath non-swivelling, but a better and lighter TW if you ask me.
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Behalf Of oil
> > can
> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:09 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: tail wheel
> >
> >
> > I'm looking at the AC spruce catalog,,,at tailwheels, and am
> > not so sure
> > which one I should buy for my super ace.
> >
> > Gross wt 1100 lbs
> >
> > I'd like one that is steerable, and also a spring to go with it.
> >
> > Page 206 has one that has a 4" wheel, options are for a 20,
> > or 45 degree
> > spring angle.
> >
> > Also page 209 there are some others. I preferr a light one if
> > possible to
> > keep weight out of the tail.
> >
> > Does any one have any suggestions ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $15.00 Magnetos |
I was looking at the pictures in the flying and gliding manual
and it looks like there is a single magneto unit on the Model A
conversion. I thought that there was one mag for each cylinder?
Do I need one or four?
Thanks,
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Patrick Panzera on 06/24/99 04:59:10 PM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: $15.00 Magnetos
Michael King wrote:
>
> Just brought 4 new Slick Magnetos from
> these folks at 12:27pm Dallas time. Jake
> says they still have over 100 mags left.
> Nearly 30 were sold earlier today.
>
> Slick model number is 4220
> Right rotation.
>
> $14.95 each
> Comes with mounting instructions etc..
Just ordered my 2, don't know what I'll do with 'em,
but at $15 each I figured what the heck.
They don't have 6 cylinder mags :(
but he did offer to put me on the mailing list.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: $15.00 Magnetos |
Mike,
That one mag has four ignition leads, one to each sparkplug. You will do
fine with just one mag. I have never seen a Model A with four mags,
although that might be interesting. Randall Reihing
>
>
>I was looking at the pictures in the flying and gliding manual
>and it looks like there is a single magneto unit on the Model A
>conversion. I thought that there was one mag for each cylinder?
>Do I need one or four?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>
>Patrick Panzera on 06/24/99 04:59:10 PM
>
>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>cc:
>Subject: Re: $15.00 Magnetos
>
>
>Michael King wrote:
>>
>> Just brought 4 new Slick Magnetos from
>> these folks at 12:27pm Dallas time. Jake
>> says they still have over 100 mags left.
>> Nearly 30 were sold earlier today.
>>
>> Slick model number is 4220
>> Right rotation.
>>
>> $14.95 each
>> Comes with mounting instructions etc..
>
>Just ordered my 2, don't know what I'll do with 'em,
>but at $15 each I figured what the heck.
>
>They don't have 6 cylinder mags :(
>but he did offer to put me on the mailing list.
>
>Pat
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $15.00 Magnetos |
I guess that would be ultra reliable, but I don't think the heads
would hold up very long with four spark plugs.
Thanks, I'll just order one.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
PS - are there any Piets under construction or flying in Northern
Virginia or Central Maryland? I'm on a customer site and will
be here Monday through Friday for a year. I just went to the
local EAA chapter meeting last night and learned everything that
there is to know about balancing a propeller. I got lost and
missed the first presentation about welding, but it was good to
be among people with the same illness.
Randall Reihing on 06/25/99 10:58:52
AM
Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: $15.00 Magnetos
Mike,
That one mag has four ignition leads, one to each sparkplug.
You will do
fine with just one mag. I have never seen a Model A with four
mags,
although that might be interesting. Randall Reihing
>
>
>I was looking at the pictures in the flying and gliding manual
>and it looks like there is a single magneto unit on the Model A
>conversion. I thought that there was one mag for each cylinder?
>Do I need one or four?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>
>Patrick Panzera on 06/24/99 04:59:10 PM
>
>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion
>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>cc:
>Subject: Re: $15.00 Magnetos
>
>
>Michael King wrote:
>>
>> Just brought 4 new Slick Magnetos from
>> these folks at 12:27pm Dallas time. Jake
>> says they still have over 100 mags left.
>> Nearly 30 were sold earlier today.
>>
>> Slick model number is 4220
>> Right rotation.
>>
>> $14.95 each
>> Comes with mounting instructions etc..
>
>Just ordered my 2, don't know what I'll do with 'em,
>but at $15 each I figured what the heck.
>
>They don't have 6 cylinder mags :(
>but he did offer to put me on the mailing list.
>
>Pat
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Hi,
Just replaced the alieron cables and the crossed drag wires that run from
the bottom of the fuselage up the struts to the wing.
Question 1 - I heard that you can squeeze up to 10 knots by rigging the
alierons either slightly up or down. Any truth to this? What is proper
alignment of alierons. Just kidding about the 10 knots. But, even a 1/4
extra mph would be nice for the OSH trip.
Question 2 - Is there a proper way to tighten the cross wires? My plans
that came with the plane are silent on both of these details.
Thanks,
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Bordhead/Oshkosh |
Hello,
What day has been scheduled for the mass flight of Pietenpol's to Oshkosh?
Will they gather at Brodhead first? Is Brodhead still scheduled for 99?
Hope to hear from someone.....Thanks, Randall Reihing
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Ted Brousseau wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just replaced the alieron cables and the crossed drag wires that run from
> the bottom of the fuselage up the struts to the wing.
>
> Question 1 - I heard that you can squeeze up to 10 knots by rigging the
> alierons either slightly up or down. Any truth to this? What is proper
> alignment of alierons. Just kidding about the 10 knots. But, even a 1/4
> extra mph would be nice for the OSH trip.
Although it would not be reccomended on the ailerons, a lot of planes do
this with the flaps. It will indeed reduce drag and increase speed but it
may also bring with it some strange tip stall characteristics. Maybe a
couple of degrees wouldn't hurt as long as you experimented with it first.
It may actually give you a better tip stall (developing later than the
inboard stall).
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Bordhead/Oshkosh |
>Hello,
> What day has been scheduled for the mass flight of Pietenpol's to Oshkosh?
>Will they gather at Brodhead first? Is Brodhead still scheduled for 99?
>Hope to hear from someone.....Thanks, Randall Reihing
Randall- The Piets arrive on opening day of Oshkosh, Weds. July 28th.
BRODHEAD IS STILL GOING TO HAPPEN as usual Fri, Sat. and Sunday.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
Ted- Upon the recommendation of our local IA, I rigged my
ailerons to be about 1/4" to 3/8" droop and in flight they are
in perfect alignment w/ the wing. These older guys are priceless.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
For those of you wanting more detail about Osh/Bhead please
see the great jog Grant MacLaren has done below putting these
facts together for all of us.
Mike C.
http://users.aol.com/bpanews/osh99.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
--Subject: Re: Rigging advice
>Ted- Upon the recommendation of our local IA, I rigged my
>ailerons to be about 1/4" to 3/8" droop and in flight they are
>in perfect alignment w/ the wing. These older guys are priceless.
>
>Mike C.
I did that & got the same results as Mike C.
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's |
Mike,
i am a Pietenpol enthusiast but do not yet have one. Currently I fly a
fairly clean 1948 T-Craft. Would I be able to fly the T-Craft into Brodhead
during the Pietenpol reunion?..........Randall Reihing
>For those of you wanting more detail about Osh/Bhead please
>see the great jog Grant MacLaren has done below putting these
>facts together for all of us.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
>http://users.aol.com/bpanews/osh99.html
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's |
ANYONE IN ANY PLANE THAT LIKES PIETENPOLS IS/ARE WELCOME AT
BROADHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
also note, Broadhead is home to so many unusual antiques that it WILL knock
your socks off!!!! This is a huge (3 beautifull runways, one big enough for
DC-3s) EAA Chapter owned airport with over 50 privately owned hangers just
chocked full of all kinds of airplanes...maybe even a
GN-1.....................(ouch)
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's
>Mike,
> i am a Pietenpol enthusiast but do not yet have one. Currently I fly a
>fairly clean 1948 T-Craft. Would I be able to fly the T-Craft into Brodhead
>during the Pietenpol reunion?..........Randall Reihing
>
>
>>For those of you wanting more detail about Osh/Bhead please
>>see the great jog Grant MacLaren has done below putting these
>>facts together for all of us.
>>
>>Mike C.
>>
>>
>>http://users.aol.com/bpanews/osh99.html
>>
>>
>>
>Randall Reihing
>University of Toledo
>College of Engineering
>MIME Department
>419-530-8244
>FAX: 419-530-8206
>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F. |
If you really want to be CHEAP (like me), just grab the pack of cigarettes
out of your neighbors [you don't smoke, do you?] pocket. Slip the cellophane
from around the pack, and take it with you the next time you go to the
airport.
First thing you gotta' do is remove all the spark plugs. Don't worry about
the wires, the switch, or anything else. Remove the darned plugs. All of
them. This way, the engine not only turns over easier, IT CAN'T FIRE AND
HURT YOU.
Next, turn the crank until the number 1 piston is approaching top center on
the intake stroke. You can make sure it's the intake stroke by holding your
thumb over the spark plug hole. If there is a considerable amount of
suction, you're on the correct side of the power curve. The engine is
telling you that the exhaust valve is closed, the intake valve is open and
approaching the firing spot. Slip a pencil or other non-metallic rod down
the spark plug hole, and wiggle for the true top center, as described before.
Go around to the front (prop end) of the engine, and make a mark on the edge
of hub that is close to a point, any point, on the case/block. The closer
these two points are, the more accurate your adjustments will be at later
checks. Make a matching mark on the case. Make them permanent.
Rotate the crank 180 degrees, checking the top center the same way you did
for the intake stroke, and make a not necessarily permanent mark on that edge
of the hub matching your case mark. Now take a strip of paper about one
quarter of an inch wide and wrap it around the hub, between the two marks.
Mark the two spots on the paper and remove it to a nice comfortable
table/chair combination for further high-tech shenanigans. Looking at your
strip of paper, the distance between the tow marks represent 180 degrees of
crank travel. If you halve that, it is 90 degrees, halve again is 45
degrees, etc. You can figure out how much distance the appropriate number of
degrees BTC you need, and make a mark on your strip of paper.
Take your strip back to the prop hub, and using it as a guide, make another
permanent mark on the hub at the appropriate spot on the edge. Just make
sure that you mark the BEFORE side of the hub. Now you have a set of
reference marks to repeatably adjust your timing.
Now for that cellophane tool...The first thing you have to do is make sure
you put the number 1 cylinder back on the proper number of degrees BTC of
timing. Gain access to the points in the mag. Loosening the mount bolts,
rotate the mag slightly BACKWARDS, setting the firing point farther back on
the timing. Ever so gently, pry the points open and insert the cellophane
between the contacts. Sloooooooly rotate THE MAG in the "towards zero degree
timing" direction until you can just slip the cellophane out of the contacts.
Congratulations! You have just set the timing on your engine. Tighten the
mounts, bump the prop back a few degrees before the correct timing, and
reinsert the cellophane. Carefully bump the prop until the cellophane can
again be removed, and recheck the timing marks. They should be OK. If not,
redo it until they are.
Make absolutely positive sure that the cellophane is removed from the mag,
close it back up, and install your plugs and wires. I'll wager your engine
runs as advertised.
By the way, Continental engines have the timing degrees on the crank flange
and you line it up with the case split. Lycoming engines are usually on the
flywheel and the starter boss.
I'll see if I can find that schematic for the 'buzz box' and get it scanned
for you.
Hope this helps some of you. I'll probably see all kinds of mistakes after I
send it, but if I do I'll immediately correct them.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
GUYS!!!!
I just ordered 4 of these mags. The phone number I got from AT&T was
208.529.4753. Anyways, they bought 5,000 of them at auction, yeah 5
thousand! An A&P friend of mine...his eyes got as big as saucers when I told
him about what they were and the cost....says they are worth $150 each to a
homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
another fortune with these!!!!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
>Mike,
> Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call 208-529-4555, ask for Jake.
>
>
>>
>>to:piet(at)byu.edu
>>
>>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
>>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
>>
>>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
>>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
>>
>>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
>>
>>From: David B. Schober
>>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>
>>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
>>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>>
>>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
>difference is
>>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
>>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation, just
>>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick
>didn't
>>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to
have
>> to
>>buy parts.
>>
>>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they
>open,
>>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
>>transformer.
>>
>>Greg Yotz wrote:
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>>
>>> >There are two windings in the mag.
>>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end
and
>>> the
>>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
>parallel
>>> >with the points.
>>>
>>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't
you?
>>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>>>
>>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
>>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of
the
>>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
>>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit
at
>>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid
collapse
>>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be
generated
>>>
>>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
>>> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in
the
>>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>>>
>>> ....
>>> >Hope this isn't confusing
>>> >
>>> >John Mc
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
***
>>David B.Schober, CPE
>>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>>Fairmont State College
>>National Aerospace Education Center
>>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>>(304) 842-8300
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Randall Reihing
>University of Toledo
>College of Engineering
>MIME Department
>419-530-8244
>FAX: 419-530-8206
>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's |
>Mike,
> i am a Pietenpol enthusiast but do not yet have one. Currently I fly a
>fairly clean 1948 T-Craft. Would I be able to fly the T-Craft into Brodhead
>during the Pietenpol reunion?..........Randall Reihing
>
>
>Randall - You bet you sure can !
They have a long wide grass runway (E-W) and plenty of free tie down
space, plenty of other taildraggers, nosedraggers, etc. come in also to
look at the Piets, Grega's and all the other very, very neat a/c they have
hangared there. Wow, if you move from a T-Craft to a Piet your cruise speed
would really go down, eh ? :))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I'm a little skeptical when I see a phrase like "I don't seen how it was
ever approved" when they give no reasons to back it up. There are only
three basic steps to the fabric system. The fabric, which these guys admit
are all about the same, the glue and the UV/fill coat. Cecobond is
amazingly strong and durable. It is like a super strong contact cement but
hardens up quite well. The fill/UV coat is equally as durable.
What he didn't say was how old the Super Cubs were, how they had been
stored, etc. I've seen Stits jobs that I would consider unairworthy as
well.
As to why they would write something like this, I don't know. There
certainly couldn't be anything for them to gain by casting doubt on the
competition's products, could there? ;-)
I talked to a number of AFS's references before going that way with my
plane. Dick Starkes and his Kansas City Dawn Patrol crew all use the
product and are quite happy with it. They even had to remove the fabric
after several years when the hangar they were stored in flooded with muddy
river water. But even then, it was only removed to get the muddy silt out
of the airframe. One of the earliest customer built Christavias is also
covered with Blue River and has faired quite well over the last 15 years
despite being stored outside.
Please, before you condemn this system because of what the competition
says about it, talk to the owners. AFS will be happy to give you a list of
references. Also, keep in mind that AFS is NOT Blue River. Some of the
components are common, but there have been lots of improvements to the top
coats.
Ken
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Doug wrote:
>
> I used airtech on my piet,it produces an awsome finish!
> Doug
>
>
> The Blue River process, I agree, I don't seen how it was ever approved, A=
ir
> Tech told us that when they were doing their comparison testing the Blue
> River was dropped off the list because they could not even make good test
> samples for comparison.=A0 Piper Aircraft did cover several production Su=
per
> Cubs with Blue River and we at Special Products did several contract redo=
s
> for them using Air Tech.=A0 I could not believe my eyes when we removed t=
he
> Blue River process.=A0 Just a little trivia here -- Piper elected the Air
> Tech covering process on the last 100 Super Cubs that were produced at Ve=
ro
> Beach and the Air Tech covering process is listed on the Type Certificate
> Data Sheet as the factory approved process, so if they go back into
> production the Air Tech covering process will be the factory choice.
> I have seen some terrrible cracking problems on Ag aircraft and others,
> because automotive enamel and polyurethane was sprayed over butyrate fini=
sh
> trying to get that chemical resistance or wet look.=A0 They got terrible
> cracking instead.=A0 As everyone should know the cosmetic finish coasts o=
n
> any fabric covering process is not part of the approved fabric covering
> process, but one should use a topcoat made for fabric also.=A0 Just anoth=
er
> work of trivia here - the Air Tech fabric covering process is the only
> process approved in Canada for restricted category aircraft.
>
> I have seen many butyrate covering jobs that have cracked or peeled and
> many that have not, but close examination of the ones that have cracked o=
r
> peeled revealed one most important characteristic that is common to most
> cracking or peeling problems and that is material buildup.=A0 Material
> buildup is the evil of a fabirc covering job no matter what system is use=
d,
> so beware of stacking up material as it also gains weight and will not gi=
ve
> you the full life you expect.=A0 I feel that all standard category aircra=
ft
> shoud be recovered every 20 years and all restricted and acrobatic catego=
ry
> or working aircraft should be recovered every 10 years, not because of th=
e
> fabric deterioration but because of the needed structural upkeep inside o=
f
> the aircraft.
>
> I hope all of this is of some use to everyone and just remember that is w=
hy
> there is vanilla and chocolate and if your system works for you and you a=
re
> making money, saving time, enjoy sanding, waiting for the correct weather
> conditions and your customer is happyt don't change - keep up the good
> work.
>
> I will be glad to share with anyone ideas and thoughts in making any fabr=
ic
> covering system better and I can truly accept constructive suggestions --
> Give me a call, I like new ideas and helpful hints also.
>
> ----------
> > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Fabric covering - AFS
> > Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 10:42 AM
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I thought I'd pass along an atricle I wrote for our local newsletter (I
> > also passed it on to Kitplanes with illusions of grandeur ;-). I am in
> the
> > process of using it as we speak. One of the Christavia has had his plan=
e
> > covered with the same produce since 1986 and has no complaints at all.
> >
> > They hage a web site at: <http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/>
> >
> > The web page was developed by none other than the infamous Dick Starks,
> > that crazy member of the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. The Nieuports that th=
ey
> > fly are covered with AFS and they are big proponents of teh system.
> >
> > So far, my wife has covered the tail and, as of Tuesday night, we are n=
ow
> > ready to start covering the fuselage. Well, almost, the pre-cover
> > inspection on Tuesday revealed no real problems but I still want to rou=
te
> > the aileron cables before we cover. It's really getting exciting now!
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AFS Fabric Covering.
> >
> > After weeks of reading about numerous covering systems I finally found
> > myself in Ennis Montana, the home of Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS).
It
> > was midnight on March 6, 1999, when my wife, Rene, and I arrived at the
> > Rainbow Valley Motel, having driven 11 hours from Calgary, Alberta. Th=
e
> > motivation for such a trek was twofold. We had already ordered our
> > supplies for our Christavia MK1 homebuilt and since AFS had scheduled a
> > 3-day course over that weekend, we decided to do the course and pick up
> > our supplies in person.
> >
> > Ennis is a beautiful town (population 600) located in SW Montana
> > approximately 70 miles north of Yellowstone and situated on Route 287
> > between Butte and Bozeman. The Madison River, featured in the movie "A
> > River Runs Through It", runs through the town. During the summer, the
> town
> > is buzzing with tourists, but in early March, the only tourists come
> > equipped with their own snowmobiles to take on the snows of the park.
> When
> > we arrived, there were more snowmobiles in the parking lot than cars an=
d
> > trucks combined.
> >
> > The night we arrived, we told the very sleepy inn keeper we were here
> > taking a course for airplane covering and asked if he knew where AFS wa=
s
> > located. He replied "Paul and Tammy? Yeh, they're out at the airport
-
> > just keep south on this road about 5 miles and you can't miss it." I H=
AD
> > asked Tammy for directions before leaving but didn't bother to write th=
em
> > down. After all, we men don't need no stinkin directions. So, at 8:45
> the
> > next morning we get on the road for our 9:00 class.
> >
> > Sure enough, we found the airport and a large hangar that looked
> > promising. As we approached, however, we noticed a distinct lack of
> fresh
> > tire tracks or footprints in the snow. We walked to the hangar to find
it
> > quite deserted, but unlocked. Fortunately, there was a phone and a phon=
e
> > book. I called Tammy and she only laughed a little as she gave me
> > directions to get to their shop - a couple of miles NORTH of the town.
> >
> > As I got in the truck, grumbling, Rene smiled and asked why I didn't ge=
t
> > the directions when I arranged for the course. She knew better than to
> > expect a response from that one.
> >
> > A Little Background
> >
> > AFS was started a year and a half ago by Paul and Tammy Yedinak after a
> 15
> > year association with the Blue River 7600 process. Blue River Aircraft
> > acquired the Eonex covering process in the early 80's. The original
> > process employed Ceconite fabric attached with a two-part
> cement/activator
> > gluing process and sealed with the 7601 filler coat, an early version o=
f
> > CecoFill. A two-part epoxy paint was used to finish the fabric. In 199=
1,
> > a one part, water soluble cement called CecoBond was developed, tested
> and
> > added to the 7600 process replacing the old cement.
> >
> > After trying numerous covering systems, Paul and Tammy first used the
> Blue
> > River 7600 process to cover a Super Cub in Miles City, Montana in 1982.
> By
> > the early 90's they were fielding Blue River Aircraft technical support
> > calls, taking orders, troubleshooting and performing R&D. In April, 199=
7
> > Tammy formed a small company called Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) an=
d
> > added an 800 line to more formally handle the Blue River support calls.=
> > Six months later, AFS took over the Blue River line of fabric products
> and
> > became a Ceconite distributor. At about the same time, AFS added their
> > own water borne epoxy primers and top coats to the product line to
> > complete their fabric covering system.
> >
> > In its current form, the AFS covering process consists of the primer fo=
r
> > the base structure (yet unnamed), the glue used to adhere the fabric to
> > the structure (CecoBond), the combination fill coat and UV block
> > (CecoFill), and the top coats. Ceconite is the fabric called for in the
> > STC covering this process, but the system will work with competitive
> > fabrics as well. Rounding out the product line are the all-important
> > training seminars that AFS offers. There will soon be an instructional
> > video available which may actually include our class. I'll have to get
my
> > speech ready "I'd like to thank all the little people who helped me win
> > this Oscar for 'Best Supporting Actor in an Aviation How-To Video' ....=
=2E"
>
> >
> > Over the years since first using the Blue River 7600 process, they have
> > rebuilt and covered numerous aircraft including several PA-12's as well
> as
> > an SNJ trainer, the Navy version of the AT-6. They are currently coveri=
ng
> > a Beech Staggerwing and just finished a Scout tow plane. Paul is an AI
> and
> > taught Tammy the basics of covering aircraft. From there, she perfected
> > the technique and does beautiful detail work. This was evident in the
> last
> > plane they did using all straight tapes. Tammy was not entirely pleased
> > with the end result and called the client to tell him that if he wasn't
> > satisfied, they could do it again. The owner came in and was more than
> > pleased with the finish and commenting that "It's just a tow plane". Th=
is
> > became the buzz phrase for the weekend. Whenever we made a mistake or d=
id
> > something that wasn't to Tammy's standards, we'd come back with " Don't
> > worry, it's just a tow plane"
> >
> >
> >
> > Back to Class
> >
> > The class itself was quite unique. In addition to Rene and I, there was
> > another couple, Mike and his fianc, Tracy. They are building an Avid
> Flyer
> > in Butte, about one and a half hours away. This was the first time AFS
> had
> > any women taking the class. The six of us clicked together quite well a=
nd
> > ended up having a great time.
> >
> > Working in our pairs, we started with some mock elevator control surfac=
es
> > that Paul had welded up for the class. The first step was to add the
> > multipurpose tape along each of the "ribs". This prevents chafing of th=
e
> > fabric when the rib stitches are applied. This tape is a self adhesive,
> > woven tape similar to the tape used on hockey sticks.
> >
> > Then out came the glue. The CecoBond glue is similar to contact cement
in
> > the way that it works. It starts out as a liquid and sets up into a
> > flexible but incredibly strong rubber-like substance. It was painted on
> > the perimeter of the surface using 1" brushes. One of the neat tricks
> they
> > showed us was to glue the bottom half of a small (2-4 oz) paper cup to
a
> > paper plate. Another cup is filled with glue and placed in the half cu=
p.
> > This forms a kind of "cup and saucer" rig that can be placed anywhere o=
n
> > the fabric with little fear of it tipping over.
> >
> > The fabric is laid on the frame once the glue becomes tacky, then more
> > glue is forced down through the fabric. This is where a little practice
> > comes in - using too much glue can cause problems in the later stages o=
f
> > covering with the fabric "dimpling" on the frame and having to be pulle=
d
> > up later. The glue is also the sealer, which means that forcing more
> glue
> > into that section of fabric becomes impossible and the adhesion is
> > compromised. Tammy and Paul have discovered that dry glue can be remov=
ed
> > from irons, scissors and fingers with an industrial gum eraser. These
> > erasers can be found at lumberyards where they are used for cleaning
> > sanding disks. It is also useful to remove excess surface glue from the
> > fabric once it has dried. Since the glue is water soluble, water will
> > also help in the clean up while the glue is still wet.
> >
> > When we finished applying the fabric, it was shrunk using an iron set t=
o
> > about 270 degrees. This pre-shrinking stage takes the slack from the
> > fabric. We then started on the other side of our surface using the sam=
e
> > procedure as above. This side is tricky as well because you have to try
> to
> > apply the glue and fabric without interfering with the first side as we=
ll
> > as worrying about not letting the fabric dimple. We ended up having to
> > live with a couple of dimples as yours truly got a little carried away
> > with slopping on the glue. Oh well, it's just a tow-plane!
> >
> > The other interesting part was forming the fabric around the curved
> > corners of the control surface. Tammy gave us two choices - the first
> was
> > to cut the overlap into small strips and let them overlap each other as
> > you came around the curve. The second, and more desirable, is to shrink
> > the fabric with an iron around the curve. This was fairly easy to do wi=
th
> > the 1" overlap on the main sheets of fabric. However, when we started
> > taping, Tammy suggested we use a 3" tape to form around the corner as a
> > worst case scenario. We ironed those tapes for what seemed like hours.
> > Tracy ended up being the envy of the group as her corner of the control
> > was amazingly smooth and tight. Rene and I ended up with some wrinkles
> by
> > using too much heat at the beginning.
> >
> > While Tammy was out of the room for a couple of minutes, Paul suggested
> an
> > alternative method for getting out those wrinkles. He snuck out and
> > appeared a moment later, menacingly brandishing a heat gun. With an ev=
il
> > grin he approached the control surface, fire belching from the muzzle o=
f
> > the gun. Just as he was about to hit our surface with a couple of
> thousand
> > BTU's, Tammy walked through the door. She LOOKED at him and he looked
at
> > her like a kid who has just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar=
=2E
> > He tried to protest, using the argument that "if they are going to do i=
t
> > wrong, they should at least know how to do it right". Tammy was unmove=
d.
>
> > He did admit that using a heat gun was a definite no-no, but after all,
> > this was only a tow plane.
> >
> > But before we got to the taping, we had to try our hand at rib stitchin=
g.
>
> > Despite the stigma that has arisen around how difficult it is to
> > rib-stitch, it is actually fairly easy. Regardless of how light your
> plane
> > is, I think that it is imperative that there be something more than a
> glue
> > joint holding the fabric in place whether it be screws, rivets, wire or
> > lacing. If you do decide to rib-stitch, the flat cord seems to work a l=
ot
> > nicer than the round. We ended up adding a second layer of reinforcemen=
t
> > tape over the round cord stitches after they were done to prevent
> > accidentally sanding through the stitch in the finishing process.
> >
> > While working on the Staggerwing, Paul and Tammy came across a rather
> easy
> > stitch in the maintenance manual. Affectionately called the Staggerwing
> > stitch, it is a lot easier than commonly used seine stitch.
> >
> > We also added inspection rings and control fairleads to our control. Th=
e
> > rings are glued to the surface and covered with a patch. Fairleads, use=
d
> > where control cables or support wires pass through the fabric, were cut
> > from a synthetic fabric material and simply glued to the surface.
> > Fiberglass can also be used and covered with a Ceconite patch to make a
> > smoother transition.
> >
> > The next step is sealing the fabric, which is done by using thinned (fi=
ve
> > percent distilled water) CecoBond, applied with a foam brush. A very th=
in
> > coating is all that's necessary. Rene was the queen of coating getting
a
> > perfect even finish. As a man, I must say that it's far more masculine
to
> > have that light blue color rather than the girlie pink color that you e=
nd
> > up with using the PolyFiber process.
> >
> > Finally, it was on to the spray shop. Paul has set up the second bay of
> > their office area with a small, folding spray booth. Since the material=
s
> > are non-toxic, all that's really needed is a charcoal mask. However, to
> > keep down the dust level, he also suggests using a small, filtered
> > discharge fan. Usually, these fans would be vented outside, but in thi=
s
> > application it's just used to filter the paint dust out of the air and
> > discharges back into the room.
> >
> > Since Paul had recommended an HVLP spray paint gun, I shopped around
> prior
> > to our trip and found that most of them cost more than my compressor!=
> > Then - success - I stumbled across a Star 950 HVLP gun at House of Tool=
s
> > here in Calgary that was only $150 CDN. As I was unsure of how it woul=
d
> > work, I decided to buy it and take it with me for the course.
> >
> > In Paul's expert hands, the gun was all set up in less than 15 minutes.=
> > The verdict was that it was more than adequate to do the job. The more
> > expensive guns do atomize the paint better at a lower pressure. However=
,
> > similar results were also achievable with the Star gun using slightly
> > higher pressures. For a professional, this would certainly be an issue
as
> > more overspray is generated. However, for an amateur painting one plane=
,
> > it is ideal.
> >
> > In the paint booth, the CecoFill is sprayed on first. It's a dark gray,
> > high solids coating that both fills the weave as well as provides a UV
> > barrier. Due to the thickness of CecoFill, Paul suggests using a filte=
r
> > made from an insect screen (like in your windows at home) to strain it
> > into the paint gun. Four mist coats were sprayed in a crisscrossed
> pattern
> > (vertically for one coat, horizontally for the next). Following this,
> the
> > control was sanded with 260-grit sandpaper to get rid of any
> > imperfections. This process was repeated twice before a final sanding
> with
> > 400-grit paper.
> >
> > Finally - the moment of truth - applying the topcoats. This is a fairly
> > conventional step and anyone with experience with paint guns will be
> > comfortable with using the supplied paints. When we the process was
> > complete and dry, the fabric was ripped of the frame to take home as a
> > trophy. Obviously, this is one step you may want to skip when covering
> > your own plane.
> >
> > Graduation
> >
> > In all, we spent about 24 hours in the class over two and a half days.
It
> > was definitely the most enjoyable class I have ever attended. I didn't
> get
> > any detention for talking in class or for taunting Paul and his heat gu=
n.
>
> > Even if you don't plan on using their system, you can't go wrong with
> > taking their course. The products they sell, however, are worth
> > considering especially if you want to avoid the harmful solvents
> contained
> > in most paints. Personally, because we have an attached garage, we wou=
ld
> > have to rent space to cover the airplane because of the possible toxins=
=2E
> >
> > Their products are as good as any other products currently available an=
d
> I
> > would recommend their system without hesitation. Don't let the size of
> the
> > operation fool you. The Yedinaks are very professional and capable to
> > handle your covering needs. In fact, the small size makes them quite
> > refreshing to deal with. They know exactly what we are building and I
> > don't have to explain my project every time I call for support. They ar=
e
> > even reachable on Saturdays if you get in a bind. I will do a follow up
> > article when we start covering the Christavia, which had better start
> > quickly as Rene is already eyeing things around the house to start
> > covering.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
>another fortune with these!!!!
>Earl Myers
Earl- You must be confusing myself and Steve for some other
Mike and Steve !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
The FAA has a free video on arrival and departure
procedures to Osh here:
http://www.faa.gov/oshkosh/product.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F. |
What is the correct timing for the Model A ?? We see Top dead center and
12 Degrees before. Which is correct??
> From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F.
> Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:30 PM
>
> If you really want to be CHEAP (like me), just grab the pack of
cigarettes
> out of your neighbors [you don't smoke, do you?] pocket. Slip the
cellophane
> from around the pack, and take it with you the next time you go to the
> airport.
>
> First thing you gotta' do is remove all the spark plugs. Don't worry
about
> the wires, the switch, or anything else. Remove the darned plugs. All
of
> them. This way, the engine not only turns over easier, IT CAN'T FIRE AND
> HURT YOU.
>
> Next, turn the crank until the number 1 piston is approaching top center
on
> the intake stroke. You can make sure it's the intake stroke by holding
your
> thumb over the spark plug hole. If there is a considerable amount of
> suction, you're on the correct side of the power curve. The engine is
> telling you that the exhaust valve is closed, the intake valve is open
and
> approaching the firing spot. Slip a pencil or other non-metallic rod
down
> the spark plug hole, and wiggle for the true top center, as described
before.
> Go around to the front (prop end) of the engine, and make a mark on the
edge
> of hub that is close to a point, any point, on the case/block. The
closer
> these two points are, the more accurate your adjustments will be at later
> checks. Make a matching mark on the case. Make them permanent.
>
> Rotate the crank 180 degrees, checking the top center the same way you
did
> for the intake stroke, and make a not necessarily permanent mark on that
edge
> of the hub matching your case mark. Now take a strip of paper about one
> quarter of an inch wide and wrap it around the hub, between the two
marks.
> Mark the two spots on the paper and remove it to a nice comfortable
> table/chair combination for further high-tech shenanigans. Looking at
your
> strip of paper, the distance between the tow marks represent 180 degrees
of
> crank travel. If you halve that, it is 90 degrees, halve again is 45
> degrees, etc. You can figure out how much distance the appropriate
number of
> degrees BTC you need, and make a mark on your strip of paper.
>
> Take your strip back to the prop hub, and using it as a guide, make
another
> permanent mark on the hub at the appropriate spot on the edge. Just make
> sure that you mark the BEFORE side of the hub. Now you have a set of
> reference marks to repeatably adjust your timing.
>
> Now for that cellophane tool...The first thing you have to do is make
sure
> you put the number 1 cylinder back on the proper number of degrees BTC of
> timing. Gain access to the points in the mag. Loosening the mount
bolts,
> rotate the mag slightly BACKWARDS, setting the firing point farther back
on
> the timing. Ever so gently, pry the points open and insert the
cellophane
> between the contacts. Sloooooooly rotate THE MAG in the "towards zero
degree
> timing" direction until you can just slip the cellophane out of the
contacts.
> Congratulations! You have just set the timing on your engine. Tighten
the
> mounts, bump the prop back a few degrees before the correct timing, and
> reinsert the cellophane. Carefully bump the prop until the cellophane
can
> again be removed, and recheck the timing marks. They should be OK. If
not,
> redo it until they are.
>
> Make absolutely positive sure that the cellophane is removed from the
mag,
> close it back up, and install your plugs and wires. I'll wager your
engine
> runs as advertised.
>
> By the way, Continental engines have the timing degrees on the crank
flange
> and you line it up with the case split. Lycoming engines are usually on
the
> flywheel and the starter boss.
>
> I'll see if I can find that schematic for the 'buzz box' and get it
scanned
> for you.
>
> Hope this helps some of you. I'll probably see all kinds of mistakes
after I
> send it, but if I do I'll immediately correct them.
>
> Ed
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bordhead/Oshkosh |
It looks as though we will be trailering Clydew Buckley's piet to Osh. a
few days ahead of the flight in. It's being modified and won't be safely
flyable. It's looking great and Clyde should be with it. Scott
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Bordhead/Oshkosh
> Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 9:51 AM
>
> >Hello,
> > What day has been scheduled for the mass flight of Pietenpol's to
Oshkosh?
> >Will they gather at Brodhead first? Is Brodhead still scheduled for 99?
> >Hope to hear from someone.....Thanks, Randall Reihing
>
> Randall- The Piets arrive on opening day of Oshkosh, Weds. July 28th.
> BRODHEAD IS STILL GOING TO HAPPEN as usual Fri, Sat. and Sunday.
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
I'm thinking about buying out the entire inventory of these mags, and will
sell them to Piet pilots for $117.95, and to GN-1 pilots for free. :O)
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>GUYS!!!!
> I just ordered 4 of these mags. The phone number I got from AT&T was
>208.529.4753. Anyways, they bought 5,000 of them at auction, yeah 5
>thousand! An A&P friend of mine...his eyes got as big as saucers when I
told
>him about what they were and the cost....says they are worth $150 each to a
>homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
>another fortune with these!!!!
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>
>>Mike,
>> Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call 208-529-4555, ask for
Jake.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>to:piet(at)byu.edu
>>>
>>>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
>>>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
>>>
>>>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
>>>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
>>>
>>>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
>>>
>>>From: David B. Schober
>>>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>>
>>>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
>>>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>>>
>>>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
>>difference is
>>>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
>>>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation,
just
>>>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick
>>didn't
>>>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to
>have
>>> to
>>>buy parts.
>>>
>>>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they
>>open,
>>>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
>>>transformer.
>>>
>>>Greg Yotz wrote:
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>>>
>>>> >There are two windings in the mag.
>>>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end
>and
>>>> the
>>>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
>>parallel
>>>> >with the points.
>>>>
>>>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't
>you?
>>>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>>>>
>>>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one
end
>>>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of
>the
>>>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
>>>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit
>at
>>>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid
>collapse
>>>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be
>generated
>>>>
>>>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses
in
>>>> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in
>the
>>>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>>>>
>>>> ....
>>>> >Hope this isn't confusing
>>>> >
>>>> >John Mc
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
*
>***
>>>David B.Schober, CPE
>>>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>>>Fairmont State College
>>>National Aerospace Education Center
>>>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>>>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>>>(304) 842-8300
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Randall Reihing
>>University of Toledo
>>College of Engineering
>>MIME Department
>>419-530-8244
>>FAX: 419-530-8206
>>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [Fwd: Corvair listserve?] |
--------------3A5E7E933D3D
Answer back directly to:
glen.shearer(at)usm.edu
Pat
--------------3A5E7E933D3D
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:10:39 -0500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Shearer <glen.shearer(at)usm.edu> |
| Subject: | Corvair listserve? |
Hello guys,
I see from the Dfly list that you guys are interested in Corvair engine
conversions. I've been working on converting a 1964 110 hp engine off and
on (mostly off since I still have to work for a living!...oh well) since
last fall. I've also been thinking about setting up a "Corvair engine for
experimental airplanes" email listserve for some time. Maybe there is
enough interest out there for a viable listserve.
I know of a few others working on conversions. Are you two interested in a
CorvAIRPLANE listserve? Let me know and if there looks like enough
interest I'll set one up and perhaps also a web page for some photos and
info from listserve members, etc.
Regards,
Glen
--------------3A5E7E933D3D--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve wrote:
I just orderd my mag and now Im gonna set about adapting it to the soob
ea-81. Kinda sounds nice dontcha think!
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
Ken:
Molt Taylor did the reflex thing on a few of his designs.... the
one that comes to mind is the Mini Imp which uses full span flaperons
which may be reflexed slightly upward to increase cruise speed. I
believe the aileron function of these is up only. The net effect is a
variable camber airfoil. Flaps deployed of course increases effective
camber, and flaps reflexed decreases camber. there is little doubt in
my mind that reflexing the ailerons (normal ailerons) would increase
stall in that area which is not where you want your wing to stall
first. I personally don't feel that any increase in performance at
cruise from doing this would offset the nasty side effect of premature
tip stall. I don't know about you, but I don't particularly like
rapid wing drop during stalls. There are enough planes out there with
nasty stall habits without modifying the Piet to make it one of them.
Now if full span flaperons were used the complexion of things would be
considerably different, but the advantages for an aircraft such as the
Piet would probably be minimal. Those interested in high speed cruise
should probably be in the Lancair club, not the Pietenpol club ;-)
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 6:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rigging advice
>On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just replaced the alieron cables and the crossed drag wires that
run from
>> the bottom of the fuselage up the struts to the wing.
>>
>> Question 1 - I heard that you can squeeze up to 10 knots by
rigging the
>> alierons either slightly up or down. Any truth to this? What is
proper
>> alignment of alierons. Just kidding about the 10 knots. But, even
a 1/4
>> extra mph would be nice for the OSH trip.
>
>Although it would not be reccomended on the ailerons, a lot of planes
do
>this with the flaps. It will indeed reduce drag and increase speed
but it
>may also bring with it some strange tip stall characteristics. Maybe
a
>couple of degrees wouldn't hurt as long as you experimented with it
first.
>It may actually give you a better tip stall (developing later than
the
>inboard stall).
>
>Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chad Johnson <cjohnson(at)jayhawkpl.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Mags and A's |
Robert, you had me seeing red on that one,......until I carfully reread
the message. Actually, before I announced the mag info to the group, I
had considered that option, (Peits, GN-1s, whoever), but I quickly came
to this conclusion; Anything that contributes to the forward progress
of Peit builders means more peits in the air, thus a greater chance that
I might see one in its airborne splendor,... and or maby even catch a
ride. I'm glad these mags turned out to be a good deal. Thanks,
Chad
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:43:20 -0600
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. It would be fun to fly into Brodhead. By the way
what is a GN-1? Does GN stand for "Grass Nibbler"???? Randall Reihing
>ANYONE IN ANY PLANE THAT LIKES PIETENPOLS IS/ARE WELCOME AT
>BROADHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>also note, Broadhead is home to so many unusual antiques that it WILL knock
>your socks off!!!! This is a huge (3 beautifull runways, one big enough for
>DC-3s) EAA Chapter owned airport with over 50 privately owned hangers just
>chocked full of all kinds of airplanes...maybe even a
>GN-1.....................(ouch)
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:10 PM
>Subject: Re: Osh/Bhead FAQ's
>
>
>>Mike,
>> i am a Pietenpol enthusiast but do not yet have one. Currently I fly a
>>fairly clean 1948 T-Craft. Would I be able to fly the T-Craft into Brodhead
>>during the Pietenpol reunion?..........Randall Reihing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>For those of you wanting more detail about Osh/Bhead please
>>>see the great jog Grant MacLaren has done below putting these
>>>facts together for all of us.
>>>
>>>Mike C.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://users.aol.com/bpanews/osh99.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Randall Reihing
>>University of Toledo
>>College of Engineering
>>MIME Department
>>419-530-8244
>>FAX: 419-530-8206
>>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>>
>>
>
>
Randall Reihing
University of Toledo
College of Engineering
MIME Department
419-530-8244
FAX: 419-530-8206
E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
How did you know? Loving wife, 4 kids, (number 5 due Jan 1, 2000) Nearly
out of debt, 31 years old and loving life!
PS, I only bought two mags tho.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Michael D Cuy
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 11:00 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Rich Guys
>
>
> >homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E.,
> could make
> >another fortune with these!!!!
> >Earl Myers
>
>
> Earl- You must be confusing myself and Steve for some other
> Mike and Steve !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Mags and A's |
You got yourself a ride offer Chad. See you at Bhead,
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Chad Johnson
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 1:45 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: Mags and A's
>
> Robert, you had me seeing red on that one,......until I
> carfully reread the message. Actually, before I announced
> the mag info to the group, I had considered that option,
> (Peits, GN-1s, whoever), but I quickly came to this
> conclusion; Anything that contributes to the forward
> progress of Peit builders means more peits in the air, thus a
> greater chance that I might see one in its airborne
> splendor,... and or maby even catch a ride. I'm glad these
> mags turned out to be a good deal. Thanks, Chad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert hensarling [SMTP:rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 1:04 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Myers
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
> I'm thinking about buying out the entire inventory of these
> mags, and will
> sell them to Piet pilots for $117.95, and to GN-1 pilots for
> free. :O)
>
> Robert Hensarling
> http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
> rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
> Uvalde, Texas
>
>
> >GUYS!!!!
> > I just ordered 4 of these mags. The phone number I got from AT&T was
> >208.529.4753. Anyways, they bought 5,000 of them at auction, yeah 5
> >thousand! An A&P friend of mine...his eyes got as big as
> saucers when I
> told
> >him about what they were and the cost....says they are worth
> $150 each to a
> >homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E.,
> could make
> >another fortune with these!!!!
> >Earl Myers
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:54 PM
> >Subject: Re: Mags and A's
> >
> >
> >>Mike,
> >> Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call
> 208-529-4555, ask for
> Jake.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>to:piet(at)byu.edu
> >>>
> >>>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
> >>>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
> >>>
> >>>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
> >>>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
> >>>
> >>>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
> >>>
> >>>From: David B. Schober
> >>>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
> >>>
> >>>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
> >>>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> >>>
> >>>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
> >>difference is
> >>>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix
> (Teledyne
> >>>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to
> left rotation,
> just
> >>>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the
> distributor gear. Slick
> >>didn't
> >>>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left
> your going to
> >have
> >>> to
> >>>buy parts.
> >>>
> >>>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At
> the instant they
> >>open,
> >>>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the
> secondary just like a
> >>>transformer.
> >>>
> >>>Greg Yotz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> >>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
> >>>>
> >>>> >There are two windings in the mag.
> >>>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to
> ground at one end
> >and
> >>>> the
> >>>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The
> capacitor is in
> >>parallel
> >>>> >with the points.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by
> the points don't
> >you?
> >>>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
> >>>>
> >>>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine
> wire with one
> end
> >>>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding.
> The rotation of
> >the
> >>>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the
> primary as the
> >>>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points
> break this circuit
> >at
> >>>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and
> the rapid
> >collapse
> >>>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be
> >generated
> >>>>
> >>>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary
> flux calapses
> in
> >>>> relation to the points closing is important and it is
> not symetrical in
> >the
> >>>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
> >>>>
> >>>> ....
> >>>> >Hope this isn't confusing
> >>>> >
> >>>> >John Mc
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>
> *
> >***
> >>>David B.Schober, CPE
> >>>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
> >>>Fairmont State College
> >>>National Aerospace Education Center
> >>>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
> >>>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
> >>>(304) 842-8300
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>When once you have tasted flight, you will always walk
> with your eyes
> >>>turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will
> always be.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Randall Reihing
> >>University of Toledo
> >>College of Engineering
> >>MIME Department
> >>419-530-8244
> >>FAX: 419-530-8206
> >>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
>Ted- Upon the recommendation of our local IA, I rigged my
>ailerons to be about 1/4" to 3/8" droop and in flight they are
>in perfect alignment w/ the wing. These older guys are priceless.
>
>Mike C.
>
Amen.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
>
>As to why they would write something like this, I don't know. There
>certainly couldn't be anything for them to gain by casting doubt on the
>competition's products, could there? ;-)
>
(snip)
>Please, before you condemn this system because of what the competition
>says about it, talk to the owners. AFS will be happy to give you a list of
>references. Also, keep in mind that AFS is NOT Blue River. Some of the
>components are common, but there have been lots of improvements to the top
>coats.
>
>Ken
>
That will be playing fair...
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
Thanks Gary, Mike, Mike and Ken. The ailerons will be done in the morning.
Now, the question about the cross wires. Just tune them equally like a sail
boat? I assume the wings and struts do all the aligning and the wires just
put tension on it? Or can they change any angles if done wrong?
Ted
This annual was started on April 1st. I hope even the Pietenpol purists
will like this GN-1 after all the work we've done on it.
>>Ted- Upon the recommendation of our local IA, I rigged my
>>ailerons to be about 1/4" to 3/8" droop and in flight they are
>>in perfect alignment w/ the wing. These older guys are priceless.
>>
>>Mike C.
>>
>
>Amen.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Steve writes "AGAIN"!
Is anyone using a Soob EA-81 for power? Did you use a redrive? How does
it perform then.
Steve
Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
email= vistin(at)juno.com
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F. |
for an O.F., you are on the top of todays list of neat people !! thanks a heap
for the really simple way of timing the mags...even I can follow those
instructions...it's people like you and many others on this list that offer us
novice builders, knowledge such as this to help us bring our projects to that
long awaited completion date...
THANKS !!!
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
> If you really want to be CHEAP (like me), just grab the pack of cigarettes
> out of your neighbors [you don't smoke, do you?] pocket. Slip the cellophane
> from around the pack, and take it with you the next time you go to the
> airport.
>
> First thing you gotta' do is remove all the spark plugs. Don't worry about
> the wires, the switch, or anything else. Remove the darned plugs. All of
> them. This way, the engine not only turns over easier, IT CAN'T FIRE AND
> HURT YOU.
>
> Next, turn the crank until the number 1 piston is approaching top center on
> the intake stroke. You can make sure it's the intake stroke by holding your
> thumb over the spark plug hole. If there is a considerable amount of
> suction, you're on the correct side of the power curve. The engine is
> telling you that the exhaust valve is closed, the intake valve is open and
> approaching the firing spot. Slip a pencil or other non-metallic rod down
> the spark plug hole, and wiggle for the true top center, as described before.
> Go around to the front (prop end) of the engine, and make a mark on the edge
> of hub that is close to a point, any point, on the case/block. The closer
> these two points are, the more accurate your adjustments will be at later
> checks. Make a matching mark on the case. Make them permanent.
>
> Rotate the crank 180 degrees, checking the top center the same way you did
> for the intake stroke, and make a not necessarily permanent mark on that edge
> of the hub matching your case mark. Now take a strip of paper about one
> quarter of an inch wide and wrap it around the hub, between the two marks.
> Mark the two spots on the paper and remove it to a nice comfortable
> table/chair combination for further high-tech shenanigans. Looking at your
> strip of paper, the distance between the tow marks represent 180 degrees of
> crank travel. If you halve that, it is 90 degrees, halve again is 45
> degrees, etc. You can figure out how much distance the appropriate number of
> degrees BTC you need, and make a mark on your strip of paper.
>
> Take your strip back to the prop hub, and using it as a guide, make another
> permanent mark on the hub at the appropriate spot on the edge. Just make
> sure that you mark the BEFORE side of the hub. Now you have a set of
> reference marks to repeatably adjust your timing.
>
> Now for that cellophane tool...The first thing you have to do is make sure
> you put the number 1 cylinder back on the proper number of degrees BTC of
> timing. Gain access to the points in the mag. Loosening the mount bolts,
> rotate the mag slightly BACKWARDS, setting the firing point farther back on
> the timing. Ever so gently, pry the points open and insert the cellophane
> between the contacts. Sloooooooly rotate THE MAG in the "towards zero degree
> timing" direction until you can just slip the cellophane out of the contacts.
> Congratulations! You have just set the timing on your engine. Tighten the
> mounts, bump the prop back a few degrees before the correct timing, and
> reinsert the cellophane. Carefully bump the prop until the cellophane can
> again be removed, and recheck the timing marks. They should be OK. If not,
> redo it until they are.
>
> Make absolutely positive sure that the cellophane is removed from the mag,
> close it back up, and install your plugs and wires. I'll wager your engine
> runs as advertised.
>
> By the way, Continental engines have the timing degrees on the crank flange
> and you line it up with the case split. Lycoming engines are usually on the
> flywheel and the starter boss.
>
> I'll see if I can find that schematic for the 'buzz box' and get it scanned
> for you.
>
> Hope this helps some of you. I'll probably see all kinds of mistakes after I
> send it, but if I do I'll immediately correct them.
>
> Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigging advice |
Ted Brousseau wrote:
>
> Thanks Gary, Mike, Mike and Ken. The ailerons will be done in the morning.
>
> Now, the question about the cross wires. Just tune them equally like a sail
> boat? I assume the wings and struts do all the aligning and the wires just
> put tension on it? Or can they change any angles if done wrong?
>
> Ted
>
> This annual was started on April 1st. I hope even the Pietenpol purists
> will like this GN-1 after all the work we've done on it.
>
> >>Ted- Upon the recommendation of our local IA, I rigged my
> >>ailerons to be about 1/4" to 3/8" droop and in flight they are
> >>in perfect alignment w/ the wing. These older guys are priceless.
> >>
> >>Mike C.
> >>
> >
> >Amen.
> >
> >
> >
Hi Guys!
Any of you GN-1 guys interested in putting together a list of GN-1
builders? I've got a lot of server space and will be glad to compile a
list... and pictures, if my space doesn't run out.
For you Piet drivers, I'll try to post a few more pictures of Poplar
Piet this weekend. If you aren't aware, that is the Piet driven by a
2.5 L Chevy engine. Doing great, flies great, now has a Scout brother
on the way...
Have a Great weekend, all.
Bert Conoly
http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1 (note caps)
bwm(at)planttel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
.........just kidding!
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 1:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rich Guys
>
>>homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
>>another fortune with these!!!!
>>Earl Myers
>
>
>Earl- You must be confusing myself and Steve for some other
>Mike and Steve !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
.....that's good.....you say almost FIVE kids !!!!!!!!! Yikes!
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 5:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Rich Guys
>How did you know? Loving wife, 4 kids, (number 5 due Jan 1, 2000) Nearly
>out of debt, 31 years old and loving life!
>
>PS, I only bought two mags tho.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Michael D Cuy
>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 11:00 AM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: Rich Guys
>>
>>
>>
>> >homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E.,
>> could make
>> >another fortune with these!!!!
>> >Earl Myers
>>
>>
>> Earl- You must be confusing myself and Steve for some other
>> Mike and Steve !!
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Covering process |
> Please, before you condemn this system because of what the competition
> says about it, talk to the owners. AFS will be happy to give you a list
of
> references. Also, keep in mind that AFS is NOT Blue River. Some of the
> components are common, but there have been lots of improvements to the
top
> coats.
>
>
Ken
Just passing on info Ken,not personaly slaming your choice,did my
research before i made my choice.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mags and A's |
OOOOOHHHHHHHHHH, Good One!
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 2:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mags and A's
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:03 PM
>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
>I'm thinking about buying out the entire inventory of these mags, and will
>sell them to Piet pilots for $117.95, and to GN-1 pilots for free. :O)
>
>Robert Hensarling
>http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
>>GUYS!!!!
>> I just ordered 4 of these mags. The phone number I got from AT&T was
>>208.529.4753. Anyways, they bought 5,000 of them at auction, yeah 5
>>thousand! An A&P friend of mine...his eyes got as big as saucers when I
>told
>>him about what they were and the cost....says they are worth $150 each to
a
>>homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
>>another fortune with these!!!!
>>Earl Myers
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>
>>
>>>Mike,
>>> Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call 208-529-4555, ask for
>Jake.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>to:piet(at)byu.edu
>>>>
>>>>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
>>>>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
>>>>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
>>>>
>>>>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
>>>>
>>>>From: David B. Schober
>>>>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>>>
>>>>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
>>>>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
>>>>
>>>>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
>>>difference is
>>>>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
>>>>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation,
>just
>>>>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick
>>>didn't
>>>>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to
>>have
>>>> to
>>>>buy parts.
>>>>
>>>>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they
>>>open,
>>>>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
>>>>transformer.
>>>>
>>>>Greg Yotz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
>>>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>>>>>
>>>>> >There are two windings in the mag.
>>>>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end
>>and
>>>>> the
>>>>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
>>>parallel
>>>>> >with the points.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't
>>you?
>>>>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
>>>>>
>>>>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one
>end
>>>>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation
of
>>the
>>>>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
>>>>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this
circuit
>>at
>>>>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid
>>collapse
>>>>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be
>>generated
>>>>>
>>>>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses
>in
>>>>> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical
in
>>the
>>>>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
>>>>>
>>>>> ....
>>>>> >Hope this isn't confusing
>>>>> >
>>>>> >John Mc
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
*
>*
>>***
>>>>David B.Schober, CPE
>>>>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>>>>Fairmont State College
>>>>National Aerospace Education Center
>>>>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>>>>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>>>>(304) 842-8300
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Randall Reihing
>>>University of Toledo
>>>College of Engineering
>>>MIME Department
>>>419-530-8244
>>>FAX: 419-530-8206
>>>E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie" <carmen(at)cana.com> |
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> How did you know? Loving wife, 4 kids, (number 5 due Jan 1, 2000) Nearly
> out of debt, 31 years old and loving life!
Steve, that sounds like a pretty reasonable definition of 'rich' to me.
True wealth has very little to do with money! Congrats on #5. My
#2 is due in mid-December...
----------------------
Mr. Carmen A. Natalie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | seibert(at)swbell.net |
If anybody wants a Corvair engine cheap, my Brother-in-law has one sitting in
his yard that he wants to sell cheap. It is a 61 Lakewood station wagon with
automatic transmission. I would guess it is a 80 horse engine. Its a whole car
and it does not run. He towed it there and does not know anything about its
history. He does want to get rid of it though.
If you are interested, call him at 309-762-9358. He does not have email. He is
located in Moline, Illinois (Northwestern part of the state)
Regards,
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending press |
William: Can you send me a copy also please?
Thanks
John Duprey
J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com
William C. Beerman wrote:
>
> Sam,
> I'll try and get some pictures together some time next week (I'll need
> to borrow a camera), and send them directly to you. I got the idea
> fom a gentleman at Brodhead lest year.....
>
> -Bill
>
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0400
> From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> William,
> Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you
> give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two to
> make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
>
> >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using
> heavy steel
> >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45
> degree
> >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground
> to approximate
> >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a
> 20 ton bottle
> >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
> >
> >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the
> bottle jack
> >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it
> works.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F.AGAIN! |
See? I TOL' you I'd screw things up! A clear cut case of unleashing my
fingers while in the "dumb-a--" mode. Anyhow, here's what we gotta do to fix
things:
Print yourself off a copy of my original post. Read on down until you see
the paragraph that starts "Next, turn the crank...: The very next sentence
is where my brain went out to lunch. I gave you a beautiful description of
the INTAKE stroke, not the COMPRESSION stroke, which is the next one. In the
intake stroke, the intake valve is open, the exhaust valve is closed, and the
piston is traveling down.
So, take a razor knife, meat cleaver, band saw or whatever, and excise that
sentence that describes the valve positions and insert this instead:
"When the piston is traveling toward the top of its movement, place your
finger over the spark plug hole. There should be a considerable amount of
pressure, because both valves are closed, and the piston is compressing the
fuel/air mixture for firing. (No wonder they call it the 'compression
stroke'). As the piston travels past top center a vacuum is created, telling
you that you've gone too far. Back up just a smidge, till there isn't any
pressure variation and you're just about there."
NOW you can go on with the rest, doing the pencil dance and all the rest.
I'm sorry if I've confused any of you, other than myself. That's what I get
for trying to speak intelligently after a fifteen hour work day.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAho878935(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New to mailing list, project update |
Hello folks:
Thought I'd start to get in on the discussions. I'm currently building my
second Air Camper. My first one was franklin powered with one piece wing,
long fuse, strait axel gear and fabric covered wire wheels. It won best of
show Arlington 96. I then sold it to a local flyer and finally was cought in
a hanger fire about two christmas's ago. I was given all the hardware and
undercarriage back so that I could reuse. So at this point I have new wing
ribs made for the 3-piece wing and tail feathers and have cleaned up the
fittings and primed. I have been wondering which gear I'd use this time as I
had made up the metal split axel gear legs before switching to the wood gear
on my last Piet. Any comments on that subject?
Craig Aho
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags |
Hello All
I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order by
email.
Mike Madrid
My page is at
http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim moosey <mooset(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New to mailing list, project update |
Craig
I remember your Piet from the completions sections of the various magazines.
You do awesome work. Hopefully that little kid in the pic will be able to
help you complete this next Piet.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: CAho878935(at)aol.com <CAho878935(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 12:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to mailing list, project update
>Hello folks:
>Thought I'd start to get in on the discussions. I'm currently building my
>second Air Camper. My first one was franklin powered with one piece wing,
>long fuse, strait axel gear and fabric covered wire wheels. It won best of
>show Arlington 96. I then sold it to a local flyer and finally was cought
in
>a hanger fire about two christmas's ago. I was given all the hardware and
>undercarriage back so that I could reuse. So at this point I have new wing
>ribs made for the 3-piece wing and tail feathers and have cleaned up the
>fittings and primed. I have been wondering which gear I'd use this time as
I
>had made up the metal split axel gear legs before switching to the wood
gear
>on my last Piet. Any comments on that subject?
>
>Craig Aho
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Parachutists harness $8.99 |
Hello Again
Just placed another order from Army Surplus Warehouse.
Found a parachute harness, I see Pietenpol set belt all over it. You can
check it out at
https://www.netib.com/VBC/ARM17364/index.htm?page=4
There is a picture and the ad says
"Parachutists harness weapons and individual equipment. We sell these for
people to cut up and use the hardware off of. Ship weight 10 lbs. PARAHARN -
$8.99'
Looks like a good deal to me.
Mike Madrid
http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HotelPaPa6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AGAIN I ASK??!! |
I am building a GN-1 and am wondering about the subaru engine also. Has it
been done.
Thanks
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending press |
William: Can you send me a copy also please?
Thanks, and may you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>
> J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com
> William C. Beerman wrote:
> >
> > Sam,
> > I'll try and get some pictures together some time next week (I'll need
> > to borrow a camera), and send them directly to you. I got the idea
> > fom a gentleman at Brodhead lest year.....
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0400
> > From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
> > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > MIME-version: 1.0
> > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> > X-Listname:
> >
> > William,
> > Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you
> > give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two to
> > make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> >
> > >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using
> > heavy steel
> > >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a 45
> > degree
> > >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground
> > to approximate
> > >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by a
> > 20 ton bottle
> > >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
> > >
> > >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the
> > bottle jack
> > >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but it
> > works.
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tim moosey <mooset(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags |
Does anyone know whether these mags are compatible with a Continental 65 or
85?
-----Original Message-----
From: Camera Man
Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 12:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags
>Hello All
>I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
>http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
>Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order by
>email.
>Mike Madrid
>
>My page is at
>http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | AFS Covering - Rebuttal |
I sent doug's e-mail to Tammy and Paul and they responded with the
following. I changed the subject line when I sent the e-mail and did not
otherwise include the URL. However, they were aware of the thier site.
Hope this addresses all the concerns.
Ken
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Aircraft Finishing Systems wrote:
> Dear Ken,
>
> Thank you for your email this morning regarding Doug=92s comments, posted
> on the Piet list, addressing different covering systems. I would
> appreciate it if you would post the following to the same list.
>
> I agree with Doug, Air-Tech has a great covering system, so does
> Randolph, so does Poly Fiber, so does Cooper and so does Aircraft
> Finishing Systems. Doug should have revealed the source of the
> paragraphs following his first comment -- they were taken directly from
> a technical article written by Kenny Blalock from Special Products
> Aviation Inc. and posted to Air-Tech's site. Although Mr. Blalock
> appears to have decent knowledge regarding covering techniques I do not
> believe Mr. Blalock has enough if any hands on experience with the old
> Blue River Process to be passing judgement.
>
> Let me give you some history - -After 25+ years of using every system on
> the market, teaching my employees and others to cover aircraft and
> answering technical questions for Blue River Aircraft Tammy and I
> decided to develop and market an entirely non-toxic, user friendly
> covering system. Blue River had two incredible products that we had used
> and were very interested in, a waterbased contact cement and their
> fabric primer/ultra violet barrier. Along with those two products and
> the help of our chemist, one of the leading polymer chemists today, AFS
> was able to come up with an entire system that is a winner. It has been
> an uphill struggle to overcome the bad reputation that water based
> systems had acquired over the past 15 years, I might add most of the bad
> press was not deserved. All fabric systems have their good points and
> their bad points and it would be irresponsible and unfair for me to say
> Brand A is better than Brand B. If I have discovered anything about
> covering systems over the years it would be this, they all work if
> applied as instructed. They can all fail and have if applied improperly.
>
> It is so sad when I hear someone say "I would never use that system" or
> " how did the FAA ever allow that system to be approved" etc. When I
> quiz these people on their comments I usually hear some typical answer
> such as; they actually had never used the system but they had heard from
> a friend who's son-in-law's mother's great uncle tried it and it wasn't
> very good--OR--they tried to cover their fabric covered airplane last
> winter in a rented T-Hangar heated with a borrowed space heater that
> they only ran 30 minutes before working so they wouldn't blow themselves
> up and usually the very first or last thing out of their mouth is "I
> followed the instructions exactly"!! Anybody, regardless of their
> covering experience, can ruin a project if they do not read and follow
> the manufacturers instructions, I know from first hand experience
> myself. When and if people learn to be responsible for their own actions
> instead of pointing the finger at someone else -- every covering system
> out there could be the best.
>
> As for the reference Mr. Blalock makes to the Piper Super Cubs that were
> covered with the Blue River System..... I have personally inspected and
> repaired a few of these cubs, the topcoat failure was definitely due to
> improper application. Every cub I saw had at least 10 mils of paint if
> not more on the fabric. The instructions specifically stated not to
> exceed a 2-mil topcoat thickness. As Mr. Blalock points out in his
> article "Material buildup is the evil of a fabric covering job no matter
> what system is used......" Is the product failure the fault of the
> system or the applicator?
>
> When systems are approved by the FAA they must meet or exceed the
> standards originally set forth for cotton fabric.. The FAA reviews the
> test data submitted by the manufacturer and a certified lab testing
> facility. If all the test perimeters are met and the manufacturer can
> show that the products will be made the same for every production batch
> the system receives approval.
>
> In closing, I would like to leave you with this idea -- If you are using
> a system and have a problem I would highly advise you to call the
> covering system manufacturer or one of their tech reps, don't ask John
> Doe 3 hangars down because he covered an airplane 10 years ago and don't
> call a shop that uses another system. If you don't have or can't find a
> number for the system you are using call me at 800-653-7200 and I will
> gladly give it to you. Covering your aircraft can be a positive,
> enjoyable experience that you can share with your fellow builders and
> future builders. We wish you success no matter what system you use, each
> one has the potential to be a show winner!!!!
>
> Good Covering,
> Paul Yedinak
> Technical Application Manager
> Aircraft Finishing Systems LLC
> afs(at)3rivers.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
This may be of interest to the group, from the Horizon - 1 group.
<<>>>
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
This may be of interest to the group,
from the
Horizon - 1 group.
Clamps:I found a
cheap
source of clamps. Get a scrap length of PVC drain waste
andvent
pipe. The larger the diameter the better (6 is best, but
2
works).Slice off rings about 1/4 to 1/2 thick. Now slice
through
ring radially atone place only so the ring looks like the letter
C when spread open. Voila!Instant clamp. The
2' ones are real bulldogs and the 6 ones are prettyweak,
but you
can control the squeeze factor but the thickness of
yourslice
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering process |
Sorry, I realized that you were posting the page and I certainly didn't
take it personally. However, this system has gotten an undeserved bad
reputation over the years and people should really look at it more
carefully especially if they are looking for a way to cover in an area
where fumes are a problem.
Later,
Ken
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Doug wrote:
>
>
> > Please, before you condemn this system because of what the competition
> > says about it, talk to the owners. AFS will be happy to give you a list
> of
> > references. Also, keep in mind that AFS is NOT Blue River. Some of the
> > components are common, but there have been lots of improvements to the
> top
> > coats.
> >
> >
> Ken
>
> Just passing on info Ken,not personaly slaming your choice,did my
> research before i made my choice.
> Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: --more thoughts from an O.F.& A Timing |
-----Original Message-----
From: Creative Ice
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 11:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The timing gadget--more thoughts from an O.F.
>What is the correct timing for the Model A ?? We see Top dead center and
>12 Degrees before. Which is correct??
I read through my reprints of the Model A ford service bulletins this
evening. No where in the four years of service literature does it give the
timing of a Model A in degrees. The base timing is TDC.
A stock Model A has a timing control lever where we now have the turn signal
/ headlight dimmer switch is on our steering columns. ( There is a rumour
that it will be returned to the floor as too many drivers are getting their
feet caught up in the levers.)
The travel of the lever is limited by a notch in the distributor cap. I will
measure the angle of the notch and let you know what it is. The crank timing
travel will be twice the notch as four strokes run 2:1. This would be
maximum advance.
The standard approach to timing A's is to set them static at TDC and
advance or retard the spark lever while driving according to speed load and
fuel mixture as you drive. Not a great way to do it. I wonder how many
drivers understood the control when A's were new?
I would suspect that the best timing for a conversion engine will prove to
be somewhat less that the maximum of a stock A. Under heavy load on 87
octane you have to retard an A slightly from the full advance position to
prevent pinging. If you use a mag with an impulse coupling it will provide
the retarded timing for starting and then advance to the run setting which
in my "swag" is somewhere close to 15 BTDC.
Be prepared to experiment and try different settings. I would suggest
starting about 5 degrees and working earlier (advance) until best power is
found. Remember best power timing is usually later than best economy cruise
timing. Newer auto engines used vacuum advance that retards the timing at
full power- high manifold pressure. No body knows for sure as each of our
installations is slightly different. This is why these creations of ours are
still are classed as experimental aircraft.
Go experiment!
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: tail wheel heath -vs- matco |
Steve, what was your reason for liking the Heath tail wheel over the Matco?
Is a 4"wheel big enough in your opinion ?
The "homebuilder's special" listed on page 206 of a/c spruce looks good to
me, and is 2 lbs less wt...???...
Bob
>From: steve(at)byu.edu
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: RE: tail wheel
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:59:40 -0600
>
>I have the Matco 4inch steerable full swivel unit. It is ok. I have flown
>the heath non-swivelling, but a better and lighter TW if you ask me.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Behalf Of oil
> > can
> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:09 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: tail wheel
> >
> >
> > I'm looking at the AC spruce catalog,,,at tailwheels, and am
> > not so sure
> > which one I should buy for my super ace.
> >
> > Gross wt 1100 lbs
> >
> > I'd like one that is steerable, and also a spring to go with it.
> >
> > Page 206 has one that has a 4" wheel, options are for a 20,
> > or 45 degree
> > spring angle.
> >
> > Also page 209 there are some others. I preferr a light one if
> > possible to
> > keep weight out of the tail.
> >
> > Does any one have any suggestions ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AGAIN I ASK??!! |
I was going to use a soob ea-81 in my ace, until I heard one run. Nice
engine, from what I've read, but THAT SOUND ! Gezz, that soob motor sounds
like 4 migets trying to kick their way out of a trash can !
An insult to a fine airplane.
Though I hear that the motor does run pretty good. And the guys who use them
think well of the soob.
ocb
>From: Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: AGAIN I ASK??!!
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:09:18 -0500
>
>Steve writes "AGAIN"!
>Is anyone using a Soob EA-81 for power? Did you use a redrive? How does
>it perform then.
>
>Steve
>
>Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
>url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
>email= vistin(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AGAIN I ASK??!! |
I was going to use a soob ea-81 in my ace, until I heard one run. Nice
engine, from what I've read, but THAT SOUND ! Gezz, that soob motor sounds
like 4 migets trying to kick their way out of a trash can !
An insult to a fine airplane.
Though I hear that the motor does run pretty good. And the guys who use them
think well of the soob.
ocb
>From: Steve W <vistin(at)juno.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: AGAIN I ASK??!!
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:09:18 -0500
>
>Steve writes "AGAIN"!
>Is anyone using a Soob EA-81 for power? Did you use a redrive? How does
>it perform then.
>
>Steve
>
>Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!
>url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistin
>email= vistin(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags |
according to my new copy of a/c spruce catalog, the 4316 is the new,,direct
replacement for the old 4200 series. The 4220 is the mag for sale surplus
for 15.00 bucks. The catalog also says something about c65-8, a75-8, c85-8,
and c90-8.
ocb
>From: tim moosey <mooset(at)flash.net>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags
>Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:22:49 -0500
>
>Does anyone know whether these mags are compatible with a Continental 65 or
>85?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Camera Man
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 12:26 PM
>Subject: Army Surpus Warehouse URL $15 Mags
>
>
> >Hello All
> >I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
> >http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
> >Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order
>by
> >email.
> >Mike Madrid
> >
> >My page is at
> >http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> >No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
| Subject: | Magneto Inventory |
Not sure where the confusion is, but when I talked to Jake last friday, he said
that
they bought 200 of the mags over (5) years ago. The recent "run" has consumed
140 of these and they have only 60 left. If you are thinking of getting a
couple, act fast.
Mike Cushway
Earl Myers wrote:
> GUYS!!!!
> I just ordered 4 of these mags. The phone number I got from AT&T was
> 208.529.4753. Anyways, they bought 5,000 of them at auction, yeah 5
> thousand! An A&P friend of mine...his eyes got as big as saucers when I told
> him about what they were and the cost....says they are worth $150 each to a
> homebuilder........some rich guy like Mike Cuy or Steve E., could make
> another fortune with these!!!!
> Earl Myers
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randall Reihing <rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
>
> >Mike,
> > Army Surplus in Idaho for the Slick mags. Call 208-529-4555, ask for Jake.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>to:piet(at)byu.edu
> >>
> >>hi, can anyone re-post the source for the slick surplus mags ?
> >>i somehow lost the address / phone no. thanx, all.
> >>
> >>Best Regards, Mike Chanter
> >>mchanter(at)bigfoot.com
> >>
> >>*** Forwarding note from PNGWDWXY--EXTERNAL 06/24/99 07:38 ***
> >>
> >>From: David B. Schober
> >>Subject: Re: Mags and A's
> >>
> >>From: "David B. Schober"<dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
> >>To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> >>
> >>The coils can be used for either direction of rotation. The main
> >difference is
> >>the cam and the distributor gear. As john stated, a Bendix (Teledyne
> >>Continental) mag can easily be converted from right to left rotation, just
> >>invert the cam and change what teath mesh on the distributor gear. Slick
> >didn't
> >>give you that option. To change a slick from right ot left your going to
> have
> >> to
> >>buy parts.
> >>
> >>The points ground the primary to create the circuit. At the instant they
> >open,
> >>the flux field collapses and induces an EMF in the secondary just like a
> >>transformer.
> >>
> >>Greg Yotz wrote:
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> >>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 10:32 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Mags and A's
> >>>
> >>> >There are two windings in the mag.
> >>> > One of the windings, the primary, is connected to ground at one end
> and
> >>> the
> >>> >other end is switched to ground by the points. The capacitor is in
> >parallel
> >>> >with the points.
> >>>
> >>> I think you mean switched to the secondary winding by the points don't
> you?
> >>> (I think this is right but I might be wrong....) GY
> >>>
> >>> > The second winding is many more turns of a very fine wire with one end
> >>> >sharing a common connection with the primary winding. The rotation of
> the
> >>> >armature causes a voltage and a current to flow in the primary as the
> >>> >windings move across the magnetic field. The points break this circuit
> at
> >>> >the time of the highest current flow in the primary and the rapid
> collapse
> >>> >of the primary's magnetic field causes a very high voltage to be
> generated
> >>>
> >>> Your right, the point at which the field in the primary flux calapses in
> >>> relation to the points closing is important and it is not symetrical in
> the
> >>> cycle. Therefore the mag is not reversable without a change.
> >>>
> >>> ....
> >>> >Hope this isn't confusing
> >>> >
> >>> >John Mc
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> ***
> >>David B.Schober, CPE
> >>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
> >>Fairmont State College
> >>National Aerospace Education Center
> >>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
> >>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
> >>(304) 842-8300
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Randall Reihing
> >University of Toledo
> >College of Engineering
> >MIME Department
> >419-530-8244
> >FAX: 419-530-8206
> >E-Mail: rreihing(at)eng.utoledo.edu
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Inventory |
mike cushway wrote:
>
> The recent "run" has consumed
> 140 of these and they have only 60 left.
The power if the internet....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Inventory |
I mustve missed the beginning of this thread... what are the magnetos
exactly? Will they work on the Ford, Corvair, what? I want to get one
or two if they will work on the Ford.
Richard
--- Patrick Panzera wrote:
> mike cushway wrote:
> >
>
>
> > The recent "run" has consumed
> > 140 of these and they have only 60 left.
>
> The power if the internet....
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
The ribs are done, man!
I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
the wings. Thanks, everyone!
Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marvin L. Stovall" |
You should fix them. If they are that much out, it will affect the flying
characteristics of the airplane. You won't regret it.
dannymac wrote:
> The ribs are done, man!
>
> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
> between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
> trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
> Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
> project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
> the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
> carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
> outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
> them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
> straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
> the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>
> Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)bbt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending press |
Sorry I've been such a slack dog on getting these pictures together.... I just
bought a Stinson Station Wagon, which I picked up this past Saturday and have been
flying the wings off of in the two days I've had it. I'll try to borrow a
digital camera some time this week. Maybe Richard will let me post my pics
for a while on his web page.....
-Bill
> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:58:47 -0400
> From: RGASKIN <randy(at)icomnet.com>
> Subject: Re: Bending press
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> X-Listname:
>
> William: Can you send me a copy also please?
>
> Thanks, and may you be blessed with a tailwind. Randy Gaskins
>
> >
> > J-M-Duprey(at)erols.com
> > William C. Beerman wrote:
> > >
> > > Sam,
> > > I'll try and get some pictures together some time next week (I'll need
> > > to borrow a camera), and send them directly to you. I got the idea
> > > fom a gentleman at Brodhead lest year.....
> > >
> > > -Bill
> > >
> > > Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0400
> > > From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
> > > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > MIME-version: 1.0
> > > Comments: Originally To: "Pietenpol Discussion"
> > > X-Listname:
> > >
> > > William,
> > > Your bending brake sounds like a handy tool to have available. would you
> > > give us more information on how to build it, and maybe a picture or two
to
> > > make it easier to understand. thanks, Sam
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)bbt.com>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 7:47 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Piet owners and builders
> > >
> > > >I don't know what everyone else is doing, but I built a bending jig using
> > > heavy steel
> > > >channel to form a box frame, and a piece of heavy angle iron fixed at a
45
> > > degree
> > > >angle descending into a steel V-block. The edge of the angle iron is ground
> > > to approximate
> > > >the correct bend radius for 0.090" sheet. The whole thing is powered by
a
> > > 20 ton bottle
> > > >jack. Just lay your piece across the V-block and bend.
> > > >
> > > >I picked up all the steel from a local scrapyard for ~$10.00. I think the
> > > bottle jack
> > > >was $25 or $30. It's not nearly as pretty as some others I've seen, but
it
> > > works.
> > > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Dmac;
I suggest you repair the things. When wing assembly comes, the trailing
edge will be VERY wavy and will look like dapoopkin. If you use the wooden
trailing edge, it will be too stiff to wiggle around unless you put the
booboo ribs on the ends. Then you will notice an upturning on the ailerons
and so on and so forth. It is best just to fix them. REMEMBER, any deviation
from the plans will cause you some sort of headache later on. Don't paint
yourself into a corner so to speak..........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoked ribs
>The ribs are done, man!
>
> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
>between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
>trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
>Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
>project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
>the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
>carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
>outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
>them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
>straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
>the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <William.Sayre(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
Hey Bill. What is it about Pietenpols and Stinsons? I too just brought home a
47 Stinson Station Wagon. Great plane.
Bill
> ----------
> From: William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
> Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:23 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Bending press
>
> Sorry I've been such a slack dog on getting these pictures together.... I just
> bought a Stinson Station Wagon, which I picked up this past Saturday and have
been
> flying the wings off of in the two days I've had it. I'll try to borrow a
> digital camera some time this week. Maybe Richard will let me post my pics
> for a while on his web page.....
>
> -Bill
>
________________________________________________________________________________
And I have a 40' Stinson 10A Voyager under reconstruction... (still for
sale too...)
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Sayre, William G
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 9:38 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Stinsons
>
>
> Hey Bill. What is it about Pietenpols and Stinsons? I too
> just brought home a 47 Stinson Station Wagon. Great plane.
>
> Bill
> > ----------
> > From: William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
> > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:23 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Bending press
> >
> > Sorry I've been such a slack dog on getting these pictures
> together.... I just
> > bought a Stinson Station Wagon, which I picked up this past
> Saturday and have been
> > flying the wings off of in the two days I've had it. I'll
> try to borrow a
> > digital camera some time this week. Maybe Richard will let
> me post my pics
> > for a while on his web page.....
> >
> > -Bill
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
I wonder if you could just sand or plane them down to shape.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Smoked ribs
>Dmac;
> I suggest you repair the things. When wing assembly comes, the trailing
>edge will be VERY wavy and will look like dapoopkin. If you use the wooden
>trailing edge, it will be too stiff to wiggle around unless you put the
>booboo ribs on the ends. Then you will notice an upturning on the ailerons
>and so on and so forth. It is best just to fix them. REMEMBER, any
deviation
>from the plans will cause you some sort of headache later on. Don't paint
>yourself into a corner so to speak..........
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:13 AM
>Subject: Smoked ribs
>
>
>>The ribs are done, man!
>>
>> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
>>between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
>>trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
>>Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
>>project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
>>the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
>>carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
>>outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
>>them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
>>straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
>> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
>>the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>>
>>Dannymac
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
Is "dapoopkin" an aviation or scientific term? I don't remember seeing it
anywhere before>
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 06/28/99 11:40:48 AM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Smoked ribs
Dmac;
I suggest you repair the things. When wing assembly comes, the trailing
edge will be VERY wavy and will look like dapoopkin. If you use the wooden
trailing edge, it will be too stiff to wiggle around unless you put the
booboo ribs on the ends. Then you will notice an upturning on the ailerons
and so on and so forth. It is best just to fix them. REMEMBER, any deviation
from the plans will cause you some sort of headache later on. Don't paint
yourself into a corner so to speak..........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoked ribs
>The ribs are done, man!
>
> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
>between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
>trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
>Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
>project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
>the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
>carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
>outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
>them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
>straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
>the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>
>Dannymac
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Model A rebuild price |
After getting off the phone with Jim Harris @ the Engine Shop, I have
got an idea now of how much my Model A is going to cost. After all is
done (total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet mods, alum head, plus added
oil pressurizing) will be about $3,000-$3,500. Basically for that
money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's done I'll have a completly
done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this price rnage sound about
right?
Thanks!
Richard
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | plexiglass problems |
Pietenpol Discussion
Well, I pulled a real booboo this time.
I've been fighting with what I think is a carburation problem on my
Horizon 2. I removed the top and bowl of the carburator and started
spraying carb cleaner on everything. Next thing I know it's raining carb
cleaner. I accidently sprayed cleaner up through the jet and (you
guessed it) it rained on my plexiglass winshield. I now have several
large spots on the windshield. One spot appears to have small cracks in
it.
Is it possible to polish these spots out? Should I worry about the
integrity of the windshield?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dean Dayton - Horizon 2 - N7167S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Domenico Bellissimo |
| Subject: | Re: plexiglass problems |
I remember seeing some Plexiglass rubbing compounds at Oshkosh. You start
with a low grit and move up to about 9000 grit. The stuff is very
expensive. Might be cheaper to make a new windshield. i think the product
name was Prist.
dom.
>>> dean dayton 06/28 4:10 PM >>>
Well, I pulled a real booboo this time.
I've been fighting with what I think is a carburation problem on my
Horizon 2. I removed the top and bowl of the carburator and started
spraying carb cleaner on everything. Next thing I know it's raining carb
cleaner. I accidently sprayed cleaner up through the jet and (you
guessed it) it rained on my plexiglass winshield. I now have several
large spots on the windshield. One spot appears to have small cracks in
it.
Is it possible to polish these spots out? Should I worry about the
integrity of the windshield?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dean Dayton - Horizon 2 - N7167S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Beasley <ronbeasley(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 92 Piet For Sale |
Parden me for using this list to advertise but I promised this kind
gentleman that I would help him sell his airplane. I know a gent who has a
92 piet with 65hp Cont for sale. If anyone is interested you can contact
him at: 804.693.2946. His name is Gilbert Handy and he is located in
Glousther, Va. The engine is fresh (69hrs) and it has a new prop. He is
selling it because he is 80 years old and cannot get in/out of the aircraft.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plexiglass problems |
Try a product called Micro-Mesh. You start out with a fairly coarse grit
paper and, in stages, work up to 6000 grit. By the time you've finished, you
won't know where the spots were. Another thing you might try is tooth paste.
That's right, dentifrice. Colgate, Aqua-Fresh, you name it, it'll work.
After all, besides soap, the other main ingredient is an ultra-fine rubbing
compound. How do you think they get rid of the plaque?
If the spots are too big or too deep, though, I'm afraid the best thing to do
is to bite the bullet and buy another windshield. It would still be cheap
"peace of mind" to try the Micro-Mesh first, though. I've seen it advertised
in Trade-A-Plane, and most supply houses carry it. From experience with the
product, it's super.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: plexiglass problems |
To answer your questions, no, you cannot polish this out and yes, you
should be concerned about the integrity of the windshield. Those small
cracks are not going to get smaller. Replacement should be seriously
considered for safety.
dean dayton wrote:
>
> Well, I pulled a real booboo this time.
>
> I've been fighting with what I think is a carburation problem on my
> Horizon 2. I removed the top and bowl of the carburator and started
> spraying carb cleaner on everything. Next thing I know it's raining carb
> cleaner. I accidently sprayed cleaner up through the jet and (you
> guessed it) it rained on my plexiglass winshield. I now have several
> large spots on the windshield. One spot appears to have small cracks in
> it.
>
> Is it possible to polish these spots out? Should I worry about the
> integrity of the windshield?
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Dean Dayton - Horizon 2 - N7167S
--
Marty Hammersmith
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/1071
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: tail wheel heath -vs- matco |
My main reason for the heath preference is weight. The matco unit is close
to 5 pounds. I don't think there is any advantage to a 6" vs a 4" wheel.
If you have to have full swiviling capability you rule out the Heath.
For what it's worth...
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of oil
> can
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 12:06 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: tail wheel heath -vs- matco
>
>
> Steve, what was your reason for liking the Heath tail wheel
> over the Matco?
>
> Is a 4"wheel big enough in your opinion ?
>
> The "homebuilder's special" listed on page 206 of a/c spruce
> looks good to
> me, and is 2 lbs less wt...???...
>
> Bob
>
>
> >From: steve(at)byu.edu
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: RE: tail wheel
> >Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 01:59:40 -0600
> >
> >I have the Matco 4inch steerable full swivel unit. It is
> ok. I have flown
> >the heath non-swivelling, but a better and lighter TW if you ask me.
> >
> >Steve Eldredge
> >IT Services
> >Brigham Young University
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Behalf Of oil
> > > can
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:09 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: tail wheel
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm looking at the AC spruce catalog,,,at tailwheels, and am
> > > not so sure
> > > which one I should buy for my super ace.
> > >
> > > Gross wt 1100 lbs
> > >
> > > I'd like one that is steerable, and also a spring to go with it.
> > >
> > > Page 206 has one that has a 4" wheel, options are for a 20,
> > > or 45 degree
> > > spring angle.
> > >
> > > Also page 209 there are some others. I preferr a light one if
> > > possible to
> > > keep weight out of the tail.
> > >
> > > Does any one have any suggestions ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tera Hanson <chanson(at)polarcomm.com> |
this is a test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Model A rebuild price |
Richard
Sounds about right in today's dollars. You didn't mention the cam gears
and the cam itself. Ask the builder to make sure the cam lift and duration
is correct. Model A's can get a little asthmatic as they age.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 11:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A rebuild price
>After getting off the phone with Jim Harris @ the Engine Shop, I have
>got an idea now of how much my Model A is going to cost. After all is
>done (total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet mods, alum head, plus added
>oil pressurizing) will be about $3,000-$3,500. Basically for that
>money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's done I'll have a completly
>done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this price rnage sound about
>right?
>
>Thanks!
>Richard
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 12 V DC Fuel Transfer Pump |
Hello ALL:
This is not an intentional spam. I have a co-worker who's father, a
farmer, passed away a while back. In his shop she found an absolutely
perfect fuel transfer pump. Me, with airplanes always on the brain,
recognized immediately that this might be a good buy for a fellow
homebuilder/flyer who's tired of lugging 5 gal jugs of gasoline up a
ladder.
I promise, honest to Piet, that I don't have any stake in nor do I get
one penny out of this.
I checked a Northern (?)catalog and these things were about 200 dollars
or up. If you're interested or you have a hangar mate who might be
please pass this along. I've listed it on EBAY - here's the link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=123545073
Thankss, See Ya!
Bert Conoly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
potential Model A parts,
I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When the
guy said "let's see
if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
the points and boom
bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
owners) it ran fairly well.
I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
"B".
As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
feature of this engine is the
water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
engine and driven
via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
block is very similar
to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
cover is a two pc. affair
held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am curious
as to what it is. Any
help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
Mike Cushway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
I know we're talking Piets but can't resist jumping in on the Stinson bit. I
ferried many of them from the factory in Wayne Michigan to the West Coast,
then years later bought a trophy winning 108-3 .Boy do I miss that plane!!!!!
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Model A rebuild price |
Richard... I paid $1500 for a first class rebuild but that did not include
any of the mods which took me a looong time to complete. I,d say the $3000
to $3500 price is in the ball park.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Dannymac...you've generated some different opinions re: the fix on your ribs
and that's what is so great about the list. For what it's worth, if it were
my problem I would surely bite the bullet and remake those ribs. If you can
make them right by removing a gusset and bringing them into line with the
rest I guess that's OK but please consider redoing them. You are asking for
big troubles if you don't G.L.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
dannymac wrote:
>
> The ribs are done, man!
>
> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
> between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
> trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
> Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
> project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
> the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
> carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
> outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
> them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
> straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
> the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>
> Dannymac
Dannymac;
Congrats on finishing your ribs. That in itself is a project.
But y'know what? This is going to be a LOOOOONG project. trust me.
At some point you will be looking back on this while you are doing your
gear or your fuse, or you covering, or your struts and you will think,
DARN I wish I had taken the time to take that little wave out of my
trailing edge. It'll be one of those things that you see in your
sleep. Like a bad episode of Twilight Zone ;>)
I can look back now and wish I had done lots of things differently.
Like the two days I spent grinding and sanding out the floor board
because I used inferior quality plywwod, or the second set of elavator
hinges I made because the first ones SUCKED, or... oh well you get the
point.
Remember you're not building an airplane, this is a long series
of small projects that someday will become an airplane.
Good Luck - and fix those ribs!!!!
Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
It is a scientifically aeronautical term from 1912..................(?)
-----Original Message-----
From: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 1:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Smoked ribs
>Is "dapoopkin" an aviation or scientific term? I don't remember seeing it
>anywhere before>
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>
>Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 06/28/99 11:40:48 AM
>Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>
>
>To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: Smoked ribs
>
>Dmac;
> I suggest you repair the things. When wing assembly comes, the trailing
>edge will be VERY wavy and will look like dapoopkin. If you use the wooden
>trailing edge, it will be too stiff to wiggle around unless you put the
>booboo ribs on the ends. Then you will notice an upturning on the ailerons
>and so on and so forth. It is best just to fix them. REMEMBER, any
deviation
>from the plans will cause you some sort of headache later on. Don't paint
>yourself into a corner so to speak..........
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:13 AM
>Subject: Smoked ribs
>
>
>>The ribs are done, man!
>>
>> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
>>between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
>>trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
>>Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
>>project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
>>the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
>>carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
>>outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
>>them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
>>straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
>> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
>>the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>>
>>Dannymac
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CALLAIR(at)cybersol.com (Carpenter, Joel) |
you could use them in the aileron bays if they only have trailing edge
error, then you would only have to build the aft portion of the ribs for
the ailerons.
> From: dannymac <dannymac@hal-pc.org>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Smoked ribs
> Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:10 AM
>
> The ribs are done, man!
>
> I made a template out of a 1x8 and a few blocks to check uniformity
> between my ribs. It also doubled as a vise to clamp to my miter-saw to
> trim the leading and trailing ends all even. 2 days short of 3 weeks.
> Not a record I'm sure.........GOT to be the most monotenous part of the
> project. All of them turned out uniform except for 7 or 8 of them have
> the trailing edge tip appx 3/16 to 1/4 higher than the rest. I must have
> carelessly layed out one of the jigs. I thought about putting these
> outboard near the tips, alternating them between other ribs,or repairing
> them all together. All I would have to do is replace the last gusset to
> straighten them. How accurate must they be? Any advice?
> Next I guess I'll cut my teeth on the center-section and then on to
> the wings. Thanks, everyone!
>
> Dannymac
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike;
I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
collecting parts to build one...........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OLD TIMERS
>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>potential Model A parts,
>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When the
>guy said "let's see
>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
>the points and boom
>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>owners) it ran fairly well.
>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
>"B".
> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>feature of this engine is the
>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
>engine and driven
>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
>block is very similar
>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>cover is a two pc. affair
>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am curious
>as to what it is. Any
>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Mike Cushway
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Hubbard <gsquid(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Model A rebuild price |
Greetings:
I've been lurking here for a month or so, trying to decide to commit to building
a Piet. Engine availability, cost, and modification have been one
of my stumbling blocks, and the idea of plopping down $3000-$3500 and getting a
professionally rebuilt and modified Model A ready to bolt on sounds
pretty interesting.
A couple of (maybe stupid) questions:
1) What part of the country is the Engine Shop in? Is there an operation with
similar experience in Southern California (or even San Diego)?
2) How did you find your engine in the first place? How did you make sure you
got one that could be rebuilt successfully? Was the shop able to
provide leads? What did the core cost to buy?
3) Are there any similar outfits that will rebuild and modify a Corvair engine?
Any ideas on cost?
Thanks,
Gene Hubbard
San Diego
Richard DeCosta wrote:
> After getting off the phone with Jim Harris @ the Engine Shop, I have
> got an idea now of how much my Model A is going to cost. After all is
> done (total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet mods, alum head, plus added
> oil pressurizing) will be about $3,000-$3,500. Basically for that
> money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's done I'll have a completly
> done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this price rnage sound about
> right?
>
> Thanks!
> Richard
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh or bust |
I too will be heading to the northern hinterlands in a couple of weeks. I
will be leaving south Florida passing a little west of Atlanta and in a more
or less straight line to OSH. I would appreciate any advice on good places
to land, things to see, eat etc. along the way. Not to be picky, but my
partpiet likes grass and mogas, but in a pinch is not choosy.
Thanks,
Ted
P.S. After Brodhead I hope to continue north up along the UP of Mich, the
Soo, Mackinaw and then south. Hoping to give Young Eagle rides all along
the way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh or bust |
Oshkosh Pilots- You should receive a pre-addressed postcard in
your mailboxes this week to fill out and mail to obtain your no-radio
waiver and notam to fly into Oshkosh. Looking forward to this now !
We have just had TWO additional Piets from MI say they will be joining
us, so if everyone shows up that would make 19.
Best Regards !
Michael Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model A rebuild price |
> 1) What part of the country is the Engine Shop in? Is there an
> operation with similar experience in Southern California (or even San
> Diego)?
The shop is in South Portland, Maine, 8 miles from my house. :) Can't
say if there are any "out west".
> 2) How did you find your engine in the first place? How did you
> make sure you got one that could be rebuilt successfully? Was the
> shop able to
> provide leads? What did the core cost to buy?
They guy that owns the shop had the engine, thats how I fount it and
him (through a local classified ad).
> 3) Are there any similar outfits that will rebuild and modify a
> Corvair engine? Any ideas on cost?
This guy does Corvairs, too. You might want to give him a ring.
207-767-2569. Ask for Jim Harris.
Good luck.
Richard
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Beasley <ronbeasley(at)hotmail.com> |
Yesturday, I posted a 92 Piet that is for sale. Well, today I found out
that pictures of it are available at the local ultra-light club web site.
Log on to: http://home.att.net/~alanhall1.htm and click on the classified
link. It is the last item on the list. Good luck.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello
Can you check that url, didn't work for me.
Mike Madrid
http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>Yesturday, I posted a 92 Piet that is for sale. Well, today I found out
>that pictures of it are available at the local ultra-light club web site.
>Log on to: http://home.att.net/~alanhall1.htm and click on the classified
>link. It is the last item on the list. Good luck.
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
I have a 108-1 Voyager basket case for sale too!
steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> And I have a 40' Stinson 10A Voyager under reconstruction... (still for
> sale too...)
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sayre, William G
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 9:38 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Stinsons
> >
> >
> > Hey Bill. What is it about Pietenpols and Stinsons? I too
> > just brought home a 47 Stinson Station Wagon. Great plane.
> >
> > Bill
> > > ----------
> > > From: William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
> > > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:23 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: Bending press
> > >
> > > Sorry I've been such a slack dog on getting these pictures
> > together.... I just
> > > bought a Stinson Station Wagon, which I picked up this past
> > Saturday and have been
> > > flying the wings off of in the two days I've had it. I'll
> > try to borrow a
> > > digital camera some time this week. Maybe Richard will let
> > me post my pics
> > > for a while on his web page.....
> > >
> > > -Bill
> > >
> >
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
<<(total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet mods, alum head, plus added
> oil pressurizing) will be about $3,000-$3,500. Basically for that
> money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's done I'll have a
completly
> done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this price rnage sound about
> right?
>
If that price includes the mag drive, water pump mod, unleaded
valves, exhaust pipes,& intake maifold, it is a great deal. Don't forget
the radiator & prop adaptor which are proably not included in the above
price.
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
(total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet
mods, alum
head, plus added oil pressurizing) will be about
$3,000-$3,500.
Basically for that money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's
done
I'll have a completly done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this
price
rnage sound about right?
If that price includes the mag
drive,
water pump mod, unleaded valves, exhaust pipes, intake
maifold, it is
a great deal. Don't forget the radiator prop adaptor which are
proably not
included in the above price.
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr
Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine rebuild |
Guys,
I paid $1000.00 (cash) for my A re-build through short block. The only
mod he did for me was to drill and tap for the cam drive and shave down
the timing gear to fit under the sheet cover. I thought mine was awful
cheap. I probably have no more than 2 grand in the complete engine less
radiator.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:59 AM
Subject: engine rebuild
<<(total rebuild, re-babitt, all Piet mods, alum head, plus added
> oil pressurizing) will be about $3,000-$3,500. Basically for that
> money, I get it done by a pro, and when he's done I'll have a
completly
> done, ready to bolt-on A engine. Does this price rnage sound about
> right?
>
If that price includes the mag drive, water pump mod, unleaded
valves, exhaust pipes,& intake maifold, it is a great deal. Don't forget
the radiator & prop adaptor which are proably not included in the above
price.
Mike B - Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lolata <lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br> |
The correct address is:
http://home.att.net/~alanhall1
Luis Lolata
> De: Camera Man
> Para: Pietenpol Discussion
> Assunto: Re: Pictures
> Data: Ter=E7a-feira, 29 de Junho de 1999 10:42
>
> Hello
> Can you check that url, didn't work for me.
> Mike Madrid
> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>
> >Yesturday, I posted a 92 Piet that is for sale. Well, today I fou=
nd out
> >that pictures of it are available at the local ultra-light club we=
b
site.
> >Log on to: http://home.att.net/~alanhall1.htm and click on the
classified
> >link. It is the last item on the list. Good luck.
> >
> >Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OLD TIMERS
>Mike;
> I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
>collecting parts to build one...........
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
>Subject: OLD TIMERS
>
>
>>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>>potential Model A parts,
>>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When the
>>guy said "let's see
>>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
>>the points and boom
>>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>>owners) it ran fairly well.
>>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
>>"B".
>> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>>feature of this engine is the
>>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
>>engine and driven
>>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
>>block is very similar
>>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>>cover is a two pc. affair
>>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
>> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am curious
>>as to what it is. Any
>>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Mike Cushway
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine rebuild |
Mike,
I think you've got a virus. Do you know a good doctor?
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine rebuild
________________________________________________________________________________
Sheesh What a cool job. I'd love to do that for a while...
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> DonanClara(at)aol.com
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:42 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Stinsons
>
>
> I know we're talking Piets but can't resist jumping in on the
> Stinson bit. I
> ferried many of them from the factory in Wayne Michigan to
> the West Coast,
> then years later bought a trophy winning 108-3 .Boy do I miss
> that plane!!!!!
> Don Hicks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | ### Mike's web site |
Well done, Mike.
Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site and is being
blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log attempts to go to
listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
should probably avoid it.
Ken
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
> Hello All
> I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
> http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
> Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order by
> email.
> Mike Madrid
>
> My page is at
> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Tell me about it.. you may reply via private email if you wish.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> David B. Schober
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:36 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Stinsons
>
>
> I have a 108-1 Voyager basket case for sale too!
>
> steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> > And I have a 40' Stinson 10A Voyager under
> reconstruction... (still for
> > sale too...)
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> > IT Services
> > Brigham Young University
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu
> > > Sayre, William
> G
> > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 9:38 AM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Stinsons
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Bill. What is it about Pietenpols and Stinsons? I too
> > > just brought home a 47 Stinson Station Wagon. Great plane.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
> > > > Reply To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 7:23 AM
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Subject: Re: Bending press
> > > >
> > > > Sorry I've been such a slack dog on getting these pictures
> > > together.... I just
> > > > bought a Stinson Station Wagon, which I picked up this past
> > > Saturday and have been
> > > > flying the wings off of in the two days I've had it. I'll
> > > try to borrow a
> > > > digital camera some time this week. Maybe Richard will let
> > > me post my pics
> > > > for a while on his web page.....
> > > >
> > > > -Bill
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> David B.Schober, CPE
> Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
> Fairmont State College
> National Aerospace Education Center
> 1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
> Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
> (304) 842-8300
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: ### Mike's web site |
I get blocked by my proxy as well.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Behalf Of Ken
> Beanlands
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:29 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: ### Mike's web site
>
>
> Well done, Mike.
>
> Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site
> and is being
> blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log
> attempts to go to
> listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
> should probably avoid it.
>
> Ken
>
> On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
>
> > Hello All
> > I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a
> webpage, the url is
> > http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
> > Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be
> able to order by
> > email.
> > Mike Madrid
> >
> > My page is at
> > http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> > No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Richard site not responding. |
Anyone else having problems?
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Richard site not responding. |
Gosh, cant get away with nothin... :) Site is undergoing an operation
Richard
--- steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
>
> Anyone else having problems?
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Richard site not responding. |
Richard, Glad to know it is intentional. Thanks for your neverending work!
See you soon,
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Richard DeCosta
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:53 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Richard site not responding.
>
>
> Gosh, cant get away with nothin... :) Site is undergoing an operation
>
> Richard
>
> --- steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> >
> > Anyone else having problems?
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> > IT Services
> > Brigham Young University
> >
> >
>
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe
> to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this
> old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ### Mike's web site |
Well if bikini & lingerie are X-Rated then I will take the X-rating. I have
a t-shirt with a picture of my Flybaby in flight, with caption "Fly
Topless", that should get me XXX-Rating. I also plan on my Pietenpol being
topless.
Mike Madrid
http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ### Mike's web site
>Well done, Mike.
>
>Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site and is being
>blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log attempts to go to
>listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
>should probably avoid it.
>
>Ken
>
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
>
>> Hello All
>> I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
>> http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
>> Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order
by
>> email.
>> Mike Madrid
>>
>> My page is at
>> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>> No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Richard site not responding. |
>Gosh, cant get away with nothin... :) Site is undergoing an operation
>
>Richard
>
Richard.......We luv you man.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ### Mike's web site |
Do you want me to email some samples from my site?
Mike Madrid
-----Original Message-----
From: steve(at)byu.edu
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: ### Mike's web site
>I get blocked by my proxy as well.
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of Ken
>> Beanlands
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:29 AM
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Subject: ### Mike's web site
>>
>>
>> Well done, Mike.
>>
>> Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site
>> and is being
>> blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log
>> attempts to go to
>> listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
>> should probably avoid it.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
>>
>> > Hello All
>> > I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a
>> webpage, the url is
>> > http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
>> > Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be
>> able to order by
>> > email.
>> > Mike Madrid
>> >
>> > My page is at
>> > http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>> > No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Site is back up.
http://www.AirCamper.org.
Richard
P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: ### Mike's web site |
>Do you want me to email some samples from my site?
>Mike Madrid
I got thru to Mike's site and all the photos are
professionally done and hardly qualify as XXX.
You see way worse on the newstands !
Mike C.
(ps...plus there's a Fly Baby and model too)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: ### Mike's web site |
my guess is that it may not be your site, I have run into problems getting
anywhere that has an address with "thegrid".
Just a thought.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Mike Madrid
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:21 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: ### Mike's web site
>
>
> X-Rated ???
> Well if bikini & lingerie are X-Rated then I will take the
> X-rating. I have
> a t-shirt with a picture of my Flybaby in flight, with caption "Fly
> Topless", that should get me XXX-Rating. I also plan on my
> Pietenpol being
> topless.
> Mike Madrid
> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:31 AM
> Subject: ### Mike's web site
>
>
> >Well done, Mike.
> >
> >Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site
> and is being
> >blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log
> attempts to go to
> >listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
> >should probably avoid it.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
> >
> >> Hello All
> >> I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a
> webpage, the url is
> >> http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
> >> Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be
> able to order
> by
> >> email.
> >> Mike Madrid
> >>
> >> My page is at
> >> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> >> No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Sir;
....a "doodlebug" was a conversion of a stock Model A Ford car into a
tractor or in this case an aircraft "tug". Mainly an A frame was shortened
at the rear so that the rear axle was located right under the front seat.
The body aft of the doors was discarded as was the fenders, sometimes adding
"tub" looking sheetmetal fenders. The front fenders were usually removed as
well. What you had was the rad, lights , hood ,cowl, windshield, and front
seat in the stock frame except shortened as above. Many engines were used,
usually with two x missions, the last one bolting to the pumpkin which was
hard mounted as well. Some had dual tyres on the rear and smaller front
rims/tyres. I had run accrossed 7 of them, always too late to get them, most
being sought after for their A parts. I want 1 or 2 for the growing
collection of "Things Old" around here in the "Tug" mode. There were
numerous versions of these 'bugs as A's were laying about everywhere, kaput,
during the depression. I had seen a picture of one with the dual tyres
sitting next to a BNO-65 both painted blue and taken sometime during early
WW2 as noted by the blue/yellow/red-white stripped planes in the background,
maybe somewhat pre-war.
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OLD TIMERS
>WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
>
>John
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
>Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>
>
>>Mike;
>> I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
>>collecting parts to build one...........
>>Earl Myers
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
>>Subject: OLD TIMERS
>>
>>
>>>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>>>potential Model A parts,
>>>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When the
>>>guy said "let's see
>>>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
>>>the points and boom
>>>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>>>owners) it ran fairly well.
>>>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
>>>"B".
>>> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>>>feature of this engine is the
>>>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
>>>engine and driven
>>>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
>>>block is very similar
>>>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>>>cover is a two pc. affair
>>>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
>>> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am curious
>>>as to what it is. Any
>>>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>Mike Cushway
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
What condition and Price?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | happy 99 virus warning (again) |
Guys;
...on one of the messages from Mike Brusilow, you will see an
attachment symbol.....it says "engine rebuilding". When you look at the
name of the attachment, it says "HAPPY 99.EXE" THAT IS THE
VIRUS!!Don't open it, just delete it. This isn't mike's fault....someone
sent it to him and he didn't know it. If you accidently open his
attachment and get the virus, advise this list as I have a quick, simple
and free way of getting rid of it which I will post
now......http://craig.medill.nwu.edu/happy99/
Mike, visit this site before you send any more e-mail!!
Earl Myers (previous victim)
Guys;
...on one of the messages from
Mike
Brusilow, you will see an attachment symbol.....it says engine
rebuilding. When you look at the name of the attachment, it says
HAPPY 99.EXE THAT IS THE VIRUS!!Don't open
it,
just delete it. This isn't mike's fault....someone sent it to him and he
didn't
know it. If you accidently open his attachment and get the virus, advise
this
list as I have a quick, simple and free way of getting rid of it which I
will
post now......http://craig.medill.nwu.edu/happy99/
Mike, visit this site before you
send any more
e-mail!!
Earl Myers (previous
victim)
________________________________________________________________________________
Richard, if you want to know anything about autogyros (and the Cierva in
particular), suggest you try to contact Stephen Pitcairn, in Bryb Athyn, PA.
His dad, Harold, designed and built the Pitcairn Mailwing, and started
Pitcairn Aviation, which became Eastern Airlines. Anyway, Steve's dad became
interested in the autogyro, obtained the U.S. license for the design,
developed and patented several designs of his own, and, I believe, when he
died owned more BASIC patents for rotor wing aircraft than the other
designers combined. Stephen is big in EAA, so you might contact him through
them.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: ### Mike's web site |
As Steve suggested, some of these Proxy servers will clip an entire domain
if X-rated stuff is being distrubited from a site within it. It looks as
though the entire "thegrid.com" has been clipped. Granted, phrases like
"topless model", "fly topless" and so on could also have flagged your site
as possible porno ;-)
The worst thing is that some companies have started taking disiplinary
action based on the logs from these proxy servers. Fortunately, I helped
build and maintain our company proxy server and have a certain amount of
control on what it logs ;-).
Ken
On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Mike Madrid wrote:
> X-Rated ???
> Well if bikini & lingerie are X-Rated then I will take the X-rating. I have
> a t-shirt with a picture of my Flybaby in flight, with caption "Fly
> Topless", that should get me XXX-Rating. I also plan on my Pietenpol being
> topless.
> Mike Madrid
> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:31 AM
> Subject: ### Mike's web site
>
>
> >Well done, Mike.
> >
> >Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site and is being
> >blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log attempts to go to
> >listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
> >should probably avoid it.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
> >
> >> Hello All
> >> I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url is
> >> http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
> >> Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to order
> by
> >> email.
> >> Mike Madrid
> >>
> >> My page is at
> >> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
> >> No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M. E. Asher" <mcash(at)silverstar.com> |
I think your web site is great. Mac,in Wy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
Richard, there is a scale model of the Cierva C.4 available from "Autogyro
Company of Arizona", 888-783-0101. $179, this is not a beginners machine
from a flying standpoint. They also have plans and video.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: back up
>Site is back up.
>http://www.AirCamper.org.
>
>Richard
>
>P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
>autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
>starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
>scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
>
>
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Angle/disk grinders |
I think it was Ken B. who first noted how useful the Angle grinder is for
cutting sheet etc. Well I got one for $24
at Harbor Freight and want to thank all for the suggestion. WOW.!!... I
really dig power tools and this is the
most bang for the buck I have ever seen!!! What fun!!! Loud noise...
Sparks.... Smoke... Destruction....
But seriously, when this cheap one is shot I will definitely spring for the
name brand, very useful!
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ### Mike's web site
>As Steve suggested, some of these Proxy servers will clip an entire domain
>if X-rated stuff is being distrubited from a site within it. It looks as
>though the entire "thegrid.com" has been clipped. Granted, phrases like
>"topless model", "fly topless" and so on could also have flagged your site
>as possible porno ;-)
>
>The worst thing is that some companies have started taking disiplinary
>action based on the logs from these proxy servers. Fortunately, I helped
>build and maintain our company proxy server and have a certain amount of
>control on what it logs ;-).
>
>Ken
>
>On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Mike Madrid wrote:
>
>> X-Rated ???
>> Well if bikini & lingerie are X-Rated then I will take the X-rating. I
have
>> a t-shirt with a picture of my Flybaby in flight, with caption "Fly
>> Topless", that should get me XXX-Rating. I also plan on my Pietenpol
being
>> topless.
>> Mike Madrid
>> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:31 AM
>> Subject: ### Mike's web site
>>
>>
>> >Well done, Mike.
>> >
>> >Your site has made the SQUID Proxy list as an X-Rated site and is being
>> >blocked by companies using SQUID ;-). Some companies log attempts to go
to
>> >listed sites so anyone working behind a SQUID protected proxy server
>> >should probably avoid it.
>> >
>> >Ken
>> >
>> >On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Camera Man wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello All
>> >> I just ordered my 2 mags. Army Surpus Warehouse has a webpage, the url
is
>> >> http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/
>> >> Jake, told me the mags are not on the page but you may be able to
order
>> by
>> >> email.
>> >> Mike Madrid
>> >>
>> >> My page is at
>> >> http://www.thegrid.net/camera-man/index.htm
>> >> No Piets on it yet, subject matter is almost as good.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
Steve also owns the only flying PCA-2 left. The PCA-2 he owns, Miss Champion, was
owned by Champion Spark Plugs and set the world altitude record for autogyro
aircraft back in the '30's. That record still stands today! He obtained Miss
Champion from Alec Miller, a good friend of my grandfater. Unfortunatly Alec
passed away a few years ago. The autogyro was stored in his barn in Vermont for
many years, along with alec's collection of Stutz automobiles that were sold at
auction shortly after his death.
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:
> Richard, if you want to know anything about autogyros (and the Cierva in
> particular), suggest you try to contact Stephen Pitcairn, in Bryb Athyn, PA.
> His dad, Harold, designed and built the Pitcairn Mailwing, and started
> Pitcairn Aviation, which became Eastern Airlines. Anyway, Steve's dad became
> interested in the autogyro, obtained the U.S. license for the design,
> developed and patented several designs of his own, and, I believe, when he
> died owned more BASIC patents for rotor wing aircraft than the other
> designers combined. Stephen is big in EAA, so you might contact him through
> them.
>
> Ed
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
For all those that might also have an interest in the autogyro site,
theres a place where you can sign up to be notified when it's active:
http://www.aircamper.org/autogyro/
Richard
--- John Duprey wrote:
> in them, let me know when the site is up and running.
===
"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how
in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
---------------------------------------------------------
Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
---------------------------------------------------------
My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine rebuild |
-
>Mike,
>
>I think you've got a virus. Do you know a good doctor?
It's gone, & I am.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OSH camping update? |
Mike, Earl?
Do we have an update for tent camping at OSH?
Final stages of planning...
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: OSH camping update? |
>Mike, Earl?
>
>Do we have an update for tent camping at OSH?
>
>Final stages of planning...
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
Bill Rewey can have about 6 or 8 tent campers on his
vehicle camping site near the Theater in the Woods.
He is allowing Piet pilots on a first come first serve.
Others will have to make there own arrangements.
He gets a primo spot every year due to the fact that he
takes his camper up there right after 4th of July and goes home.
Lets it sit until ready to use !!
Mike C.
Bill Rewey's phone 608-833-5839....though he will be gone for
a few days.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: OSH camping update? |
I can see it now.
I get first dibs in fomation behind Bill! NO I was first...
"What in the heck? one piet out front and a *swarm* of
piets jockying for second place....
Just a little kidding.
Steve Eldredge
Steve(at)byu.edu
IT Services
Brigham Young University
-----Original Message-----
D Cuy
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 2:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OSH camping update?
>Mike, Earl?
>
>Do we have an update for tent camping at OSH?
>
>Final stages of planning...
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>
Bill Rewey can have about 6 or 8 tent campers on his
vehicle camping site near the Theater in the Woods.
He is allowing Piet pilots on a first come first serve.
Others will have to make there own arrangements.
He gets a primo spot every year due to the fact that he
takes his camper up there right after 4th of July and goes home.
Lets it sit until ready to use !!
Mike C.
Bill Rewey's phone 608-833-5839....though he will be gone for
a few days.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: OSH camping update? |
>
> I can see it now.
>
> I get first dibs in fomation behind Bill! NO I was first...
>
....Steve......no problem, you've got a Continental up front :)))
Ouch !!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Bell <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
Is there any chance of a Pietenpol class being added to the Reno
Formula races? It could be split into two categories, Model A
powered and all other.
Mike Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
Richard, there are one or two good autogyro sites, also some good R/C sport
designs if your interested in building a flying mode. I have plans for a
neat twin rotor one that I need to build, kinda got me thinking about it
again.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 2:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: AutoGyro
>For all those that might also have an interest in the autogyro site,
>theres a place where you can sign up to be notified when it's active:
>http://www.aircamper.org/autogyro/
>
>Richard
>
>--- John Duprey wrote:
>> in them, let me know when the site is up and running.
>
>
>===
>"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>---------------------------------------------------------
>My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net> |
Richard
Contact my dad I think he is the world authority on the autogyros
Bill Hannan
runway(at)prodigy.com
Thanks Ken
---
> Richard
>
> P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
> autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
> starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
> scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
>
>
> ===
> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just
how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Cunningham <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
Is that the same Hannan as Hannan's Hanger?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 4:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: back up
>Richard
>
> Contact my dad I think he is the world authority on the autogyros
>Bill Hannan
>runway(at)prodigy.com
>
>Thanks Ken
>---
>> Richard
>>
>> P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
>> autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
>> starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
>> scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
>>
>>
>> ===
>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
Just
>how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com> |
A doodlebug was a poor mans tractor. More often than not it was a hacked up,
shortened
Ford Model A with a heavier truck rear axle (lower ratio). Sears actually sold
"kits" to
convert Model A's. My dad says that in the 30's you could buy a running Model
A for $15.
Tractor or truck tires, a set of chains and Viola, you have a Doodlebug. As I
said earlier
a good percentage were Model A's and hence the reason for looking. When I
first looked at
this one, I thought that I had lucked into a "B" engine. As it turns out, I
don't know what I
have. The rear end in mine is from a 1929 International Six Speed Special
(3spd. tranny
and 2spd. rear end).
John Greenlee wrote:
> WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Myers
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>
> >Mike;
> > I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
> >collecting parts to build one...........
> >Earl Myers
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
> >Subject: OLD TIMERS
> >
> >
> >>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
> >>potential Model A parts,
> >>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When the
> >>guy said "let's see
> >>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
> >>the points and boom
> >>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
> >>owners) it ran fairly well.
> >>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
> >>"B".
> >> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
> >>feature of this engine is the
> >>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
> >>engine and driven
> >>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
> >>block is very similar
> >>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
> >>cover is a two pc. affair
> >>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
> >> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am curious
> >>as to what it is. Any
> >>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>Mike Cushway
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net> |
Mike
yes it is
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
No, I don't think so, there are only so many hours of daylight... :-)
Andy
http://www.recdotaviation.org
On Tuesday, June 29, 1999 2:10 PM, Mike Bell [SMTP:mbell(at)sctcorp.com] wrote:
>
>
> Is there any chance of a Pietenpol class being added to the Reno
> Formula races? It could be split into two categories, Model A
> powered and all other.
>
> Mike Bell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dlwoolsey(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: $15.00 MAG WILL WORK |
Hello list,
I am sorry to be posting this to the whole group but I lost the address of
the person who sent the question on my instalation of the EA-81 in my piet.
I believe it was the Hansens. I guess that what I am trying to say is that
the person who asked about the EA-81 in my Piet please re-e-mail me.
Duane NX6398
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GN-1 Builder/Flyer list |
Hello all,
Is any one interested in putting together a list of GN-1
builders/flyers?
If so I'll put the info on my site.
Not that we don't appreciate our Piet-driving brethren - it's just that
there may be some information specific to our planes that could be
shared through a mailing list, etc.
Any way, if there's any interest, please let me know...
Personal thanks to Richard for putting up such as nice site - a big
round of applause!!!!
Bert Conoly
bwm(at)planttel.net
http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
Hi Guys--I am building an air camper, cont. 65 engine (I ordered a set of the
mags, thanks!), all wood construction. Have built steel tubing landing
gear--according to the plans I need 5/8 diameter shock cords. Seems awfullly
stiff to me, what have you been using? Thanks, Bud Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine rebuild |
I thought you retired.......
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine rebuild
>
>-
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>I think you've got a virus. Do you know a good doctor?
>
> It's gone, & I am.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine rebuild |
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 9:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine rebuild
>I thought you retired.......
>
>
>JMG
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 3:02 PM
>Subject: Re: engine rebuild
>
>
>>
>>-
>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>I think you've got a virus. Do you know a good doctor?
>>
>> It's gone, & I am.
>>
>> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
Yep, all done.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list |
-----Original Message-----
From: bwm
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list
Aw Heck Bert, add me to your list. You're not going to let anyone with a
real live authenic Pietenpol join the list though are you? This will just
be for us renegades won't it? Oh well, either way, it's ok with me. BTW, I
just have to ask, did Mr. Pietenpol ever use a Continental 65?
Seriously, I got in 1.5 hours in the ol GN-1 this evening. Was really bumpy
and hazey, wasn't the best of enjoyable flying conditions, but did fly non
the less. Out of necessity, I'm starting to get rather consistant with the
you're going to fly anything, you have to cope with the afternoon winds.
Maybe it's that way everywhere, but it won't let up here till Autumn.
Looks like Brodshead and Oshgosh is out for me this year, maybe next. Sure
wanted to see the guys on the list, and the two girls in the Ford powered
Piet in Michael Cuys video!!!
Adios,
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Hello all,
>
>Is any one interested in putting together a list of GN-1
>builders/flyers?
>If so I'll put the info on my site.
>
>Not that we don't appreciate our Piet-driving brethren - it's just that
>there may be some information specific to our planes that could be
>shared through a mailing list, etc.
>
>Any way, if there's any interest, please let me know...
>Personal thanks to Richard for putting up such as nice site - a big
>round of applause!!!!
>
>Bert Conoly
>bwm(at)planttel.net
>http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list |
Alright! Robert you're number two (besides me). Sounds like a
revolution happening! It's just like a family picnic, we're all just
one big ole family! Pass that potato(e) salad please....
No really, guys, all in fun!!! Heck some of my best friends ride Piets
:)
Well Robert at least your aircamper was in the air. Mine would need to
sprout floats or a hull. That Gulf effect is killing the panhandle
right now - 94 degrees today with 97 % RH and big, bad thunderstorms
bringin in about two inches today.
Aaah but some of ya'll have Broadhead to look for. I hear it's usually
nice and dry, and cool up there. Somebody send me a postcard. One of
these days I'll make it up there.
Keep up the good work on those x-wind landings - dont need any loops in
your roll out.
Cheers, Bert
robert hensarling wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bwm
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:27 PM
> Subject: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list
>
> Aw Heck Bert, add me to your list. You're not going to let anyone with a
> real live authenic Pietenpol join the list though are you? This will just
> be for us renegades won't it? Oh well, either way, it's ok with me. BTW, I
> just have to ask, did Mr. Pietenpol ever use a Continental 65?
>
> Seriously, I got in 1.5 hours in the ol GN-1 this evening. Was really bumpy
> and hazey, wasn't the best of enjoyable flying conditions, but did fly non
> the less. Out of necessity, I'm starting to get rather consistant with the
> X-wind landings, since that's all I have down here in South Texas. If
> you're going to fly anything, you have to cope with the afternoon winds.
> Maybe it's that way everywhere, but it won't let up here till Autumn.
>
> Looks like Brodshead and Oshgosh is out for me this year, maybe next. Sure
> wanted to see the guys on the list, and the two girls in the Ford powered
> Piet in Michael Cuys video!!!
>
> Adios,
>
> Robert Hensarling
> http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
> rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
> Uvalde, Texas
>
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Is any one interested in putting together a list of GN-1
> >builders/flyers?
> >If so I'll put the info on my site.
> >
> >Not that we don't appreciate our Piet-driving brethren - it's just that
> >there may be some information specific to our planes that could be
> >shared through a mailing list, etc.
> >
> >Any way, if there's any interest, please let me know...
> >Personal thanks to Richard for putting up such as nice site - a big
> >round of applause!!!!
> >
> >Bert Conoly
> >bwm(at)planttel.net
> >http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
Somewhere I ran accrossed a "Hannan's Runway".....is the same fella?
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: back up
>Richard
>
> Contact my dad I think he is the world authority on the autogyros
>Bill Hannan
>runway(at)prodigy.com
>
>Thanks Ken
>---
>> Richard
>>
>> P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
>> autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
>> starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
>> scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
>>
>>
>> ===
>> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
Just
>how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list |
I think Mr. Pietenpol did use a 65 Cont. At least I think there is a
drawing for a motor mount he made.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 9:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bwm
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:27 PM
>Subject: GN-1 Builder/Flyer list
>
>Aw Heck Bert, add me to your list. You're not going to let anyone with a
>real live authenic Pietenpol join the list though are you? This will just
>be for us renegades won't it? Oh well, either way, it's ok with me. BTW,
I
>just have to ask, did Mr. Pietenpol ever use a Continental 65?
>
>Seriously, I got in 1.5 hours in the ol GN-1 this evening. Was really
bumpy
>and hazey, wasn't the best of enjoyable flying conditions, but did fly non
>the less. Out of necessity, I'm starting to get rather consistant with the
>X-wind landings, since that's all I have down here in South Texas. If
>you're going to fly anything, you have to cope with the afternoon winds.
>Maybe it's that way everywhere, but it won't let up here till Autumn.
>
>Looks like Brodshead and Oshgosh is out for me this year, maybe next. Sure
>wanted to see the guys on the list, and the two girls in the Ford powered
>Piet in Michael Cuys video!!!
>
>Adios,
>
>Robert Hensarling
>http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>Is any one interested in putting together a list of GN-1
>>builders/flyers?
>>If so I'll put the info on my site.
>>
>>Not that we don't appreciate our Piet-driving brethren - it's just that
>>there may be some information specific to our planes that could be
>>shared through a mailing list, etc.
>>
>>Any way, if there's any interest, please let me know...
>>Personal thanks to Richard for putting up such as nice site - a big
>>round of applause!!!!
>>
>>Bert Conoly
>>bwm(at)planttel.net
>>http://www.bwmproductions.com/GN1
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
8 winds of 5/8" bungee per side. Right on the money.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> Patcoolnet(at)aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 6:30 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Shock cords
>
>
> Hi Guys--I am building an air camper, cont. 65 engine (I
> ordered a set of the
> mags, thanks!), all wood construction. Have built steel
> tubing landing
> gear--according to the plans I need 5/8 diameter shock cords.
> Seems awfullly
> stiff to me, what have you been using? Thanks, Bud Cooley
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Robert H., Group,
Robert- Did I read where you said you would not be making the
flight to Oshkosh ? Sorry to hear that and sure hope if things change
you'll join us.
As a side note, please make sure if you have said you will be joining
us to Osh w/ your plane that if at anytime you know you won't be able
to make it, please e-mail, call, or write me with that news as Grant and
I are accountable to EAA for reporting how many Piets we will need parking
space for. Of course EAA doesn't need an exact number, we'd just like
to make it close. Thanks everyone, this group is a good one !
Mike Cuy
D: 216-433-3159
E: 330-483-3690
________________________________________________________________________________
What part of the world are you from?
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OLD TIMERS
>A doodlebug was a poor mans tractor. More often than not it was a hacked
up,
>shortened
>Ford Model A with a heavier truck rear axle (lower ratio). Sears actually
sold
>"kits" to
>convert Model A's. My dad says that in the 30's you could buy a running
Model
>A for $15.
>Tractor or truck tires, a set of chains and Viola, you have a Doodlebug. As
I
>said earlier
>a good percentage were Model A's and hence the reason for looking. When I
>first looked at
>this one, I thought that I had lucked into a "B" engine. As it turns out, I
>don't know what I
>have. The rear end in mine is from a 1929 International Six Speed Special
>(3spd. tranny
>and 2spd. rear end).
>
>John Greenlee wrote:
>
>> WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Earl Myers
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>>
>> >Mike;
>> > I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
>> >collecting parts to build one...........
>> >Earl Myers
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> >Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
>> >Subject: OLD TIMERS
>> >
>> >
>> >>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>> >>potential Model A parts,
>> >>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When
the
>> >>guy said "let's see
>> >>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling with
>> >>the points and boom
>> >>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>> >>owners) it ran fairly well.
>> >>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
>> >>"B".
>> >> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>> >>feature of this engine is the
>> >>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of the
>> >>engine and driven
>> >>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
>> >>block is very similar
>> >>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>> >>cover is a two pc. affair
>> >>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
>> >> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am
curious
>> >>as to what it is. Any
>> >>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>> >>
>> >>Mike Cushway
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net> |
Who, Me or Mike?
JMG
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Myers
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OLD TIMERS
>What part of the world are you from?
>Earl Myers
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:51 PM
>Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>
>
>>A doodlebug was a poor mans tractor. More often than not it was a hacked
>up,
>>shortened
>>Ford Model A with a heavier truck rear axle (lower ratio). Sears actually
>sold
>>"kits" to
>>convert Model A's. My dad says that in the 30's you could buy a running
>Model
>>A for $15.
>>Tractor or truck tires, a set of chains and Viola, you have a Doodlebug.
As
>I
>>said earlier
>>a good percentage were Model A's and hence the reason for looking. When I
>>first looked at
>>this one, I thought that I had lucked into a "B" engine. As it turns out,
I
>>don't know what I
>>have. The rear end in mine is from a 1929 International Six Speed Special
>>(3spd. tranny
>>and 2spd. rear end).
>>
>>John Greenlee wrote:
>>
>>> WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Earl Myers
>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>>>
>>> >Mike;
>>> > I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
>>> >collecting parts to build one...........
>>> >Earl Myers
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>> >Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
>>> >Subject: OLD TIMERS
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>>> >>potential Model A parts,
>>> >>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When
>the
>>> >>guy said "let's see
>>> >>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling
with
>>> >>the points and boom
>>> >>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>>> >>owners) it ran fairly well.
>>> >>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A" or
>>> >>"B".
>>> >> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>>> >>feature of this engine is the
>>> >>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of
the
>>> >>engine and driven
>>> >>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator. The
>>> >>block is very similar
>>> >>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>>> >>cover is a two pc. affair
>>> >>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
>>> >> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am
>curious
>>> >>as to what it is. Any
>>> >>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>>> >>
>>> >>Mike Cushway
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net> |
Yes that's my mom & dads business
www.hrunway.com
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 9:21 PM
> Somewhere I ran accrossed a "Hannan's Runway".....is the same fella?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Hannan <khannan(at)gte.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:23 PM
> Subject: Re: back up
>
>
> >Richard
> >
> > Contact my dad I think he is the world authority on the autogyros
> >Bill Hannan
> >runway(at)prodigy.com
> >
> >Thanks Ken
> >---
> >> Richard
> >>
> >> P.S., If theres anyone on this mailing list that knows anything about
> >> autogyros (1930's style, not the modern gyros), please contact me. I am
> >> starting a site for that too (eventually I want to build a replica or
> >> scaled down Cierva autogyro). Thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >> ===
> >> "Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly?
> Just
> >how in the world do you think it got to be this old?" - Jim Tavenner
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >> Visit www.AirCamper.org - A Low 'n Slow Online Community!
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >> My homepage: http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cushway, Mike" <mike_cushway(at)trekbike.com> |
| Subject: | RIB TRAILING EDGE |
Group,
Any tips for the trailing edge design on the wing ribs? I see two
options listed on the plans.
Have any of you done anything different that worked out well?
Mike Cushway
Mfg. Engineering
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RIB TRAILING EDGE |
Mike;
I used the stock method on my Scout meaning the wooden version. I did not
use any attachment to the ribs other than T-88 glue (no nails or other
fussing). It made a nice clean item to cover. On another plane with the same
style ribs, I used the aluminum pre-formed trailing edge. That was quicker
but more of a pain to attach using small screws and epoxy plus epoxy fillers
to smooth things out. On any subsequent planes, I am going to stick to the
wooden trailing edges. Set up the table saw, practice a bit then go slow and
watch what you are doing and DO use a fine cut Carbide tooth blade. Only use
spruce as the wood will want to warp after it is cut, spruce being the least
likely to warp as much. I have tried several other woods which will work but
the spruce doesn't warp like the others (moisture content).
I did the same with the leading edge. I used two pieces laminated to make
the nominal block (to cut down on warpage) then made four cuts that came
close to the final profile on the above table saw. After attachment to the
wing, I used a cardboard profil to check my progress after using a 3" belt
sander to sand to final shape. Again, I only used T-88 epoxy as the only
attach method, I didn't use all those screws as on the plans. Remember, they
didn't have the epoxys of today to use as we do. That is why many old planes
backed up critical glue joints with fasteners as in the trailing edges.
Iron Mike Cuy (his real name) used a wood stair railing purchased at a
lumberyard that was VERY close to the actual profile of the leading edge for
his leading edge. Only problem is people at airshows just have to walk along
the front of the wing sliding their hands along the leading edge for some
reason.........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Cushway, Mike <mike_cushway(at)trekbike.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RIB TRAILING EDGE
>Group,
> Any tips for the trailing edge design on the wing ribs? I see two
>options listed on the plans.
>Have any of you done anything different that worked out well?
>
>Mike Cushway
> Mfg. Engineering
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike with the Doodlebug, where ya from? (or living at now)
-----Original Message-----
From: John Greenlee <jgreenlee(at)morgan.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: OLD TIMERS
>Who, Me or Mike?
>
>JMG
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earl Myers
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:40 AM
>Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>
>
>>What part of the world are you from?
>>Earl Myers
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:51 PM
>>Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>>
>>
>>>A doodlebug was a poor mans tractor. More often than not it was a hacked
>>up,
>>>shortened
>>>Ford Model A with a heavier truck rear axle (lower ratio). Sears actually
>>sold
>>>"kits" to
>>>convert Model A's. My dad says that in the 30's you could buy a running
>>Model
>>>A for $15.
>>>Tractor or truck tires, a set of chains and Viola, you have a Doodlebug.
>As
>>I
>>>said earlier
>>>a good percentage were Model A's and hence the reason for looking. When I
>>>first looked at
>>>this one, I thought that I had lucked into a "B" engine. As it turns out,
>I
>>>don't know what I
>>>have. The rear end in mine is from a 1929 International Six Speed Special
>>>(3spd. tranny
>>>and 2spd. rear end).
>>>
>>>John Greenlee wrote:
>>>
>>>> WHATTHAHECKISA Doodlebug?
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Earl Myers
>>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:36 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: OLD TIMERS
>>>>
>>>> >Mike;
>>>> > I have been looking for a doodlebug for a long time, gave up and was
>>>> >collecting parts to build one...........
>>>> >Earl Myers
>>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: mike cushway <mcushway(at)gdinet.com>
>>>> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>>> >Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:51 PM
>>>> >Subject: OLD TIMERS
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>I need some help from the old timers! Always on the lookout for
>>>> >>potential Model A parts,
>>>> >>I found and bought a doodlebug with a running flathead 4 in it. When
>>the
>>>> >>guy said "let's see
>>>> >>if it runs" I thought he was kidding. A couple of minutes fiddling
>with
>>>> >>the points and boom
>>>> >>bang it was coughing. After it ejected a mouse nest (complete with
>>>> >>owners) it ran fairly well.
>>>> >>I need help identifying this engine. I know that is not an Ford "A"
or
>>>> >>"B".
>>>> >> As I said earlier it is a flathead 4. Probably the most unique
>>>> >>feature of this engine is the
>>>> >>water pump drive. The water pump is located at the RH lower rear of
>the
>>>> >>engine and driven
>>>> >>via an extension shaft from the back of the gear driven generator.
The
>>>> >>block is very similar
>>>> >>to an "A" in that the cylinders can be seen in the casting. The valve
>>>> >>cover is a two pc. affair
>>>> >>held with a wingnut. The distributor is top mounted through the head.
>>>> >> I have no intentions of running this thing in a Piet. but am
>>curious
>>>> >>as to what it is. Any
>>>> >>help in identifying the engine would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Mike Cushway
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Go/No Go
Hi Michael. I have just found out that I will NOT be able to attend
Brodhead/Oshgosh this year. Thanks anyway for counting me in up until now,
and I'll try again next year.
Grant and
>I are accountable to EAA for reporting how many Piets we will need parking
>space for>Mike Cuy
Oh well, I have a GN-1 anyway, so you didn't have a spot of me :o)
RH
June 23, 1999 - June 30, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ax