Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bg
September 23, 1999 - September 29, 1999
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harnesses |
In a message dated 9/21/99 2:59:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
rrobert(at)centuryinter.net writes:
<< How about building a small support structure above the
turtle deck, >>
I'm using a headrest above the turtle deck tapering back just beyond the next
former. I made the form using blue foam and hot wire. The harness will
carry thru the headrest, attach to a cable, and the cable is attached to the
tailpost.
Chuck G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Drill a hole in the seat.
Use a bycycle bungee cord.
JimV.
--- steve(at)byu.edu wrote:
> Re Trim tabs:
>
> I used a bungee fastened to my belt on my flight
> back home from Brodhead.
> All I needed was about 1.5 pounds of pull (maybe
> less) but it made a great
> difference after nearly 20 hours of flying. around
> home I don't use
> anything.
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu
> > mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 7:29 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: CG and Trim
> >
> >
> > Your mention of "holding the stick forward"
> reminds me of a
> > question that I was
> > going to ask. There doesn't seem to be any
> mention anywhere
> > of trim tabs
> > other than a fixed one on the rudder of some
> Piets. Is
> > this because this is
> > not a cross country airplane? ( That can
> obviously be
> > discounted by the folks
> > who flew Piets ot Oshkosh and Brodhead this year.)
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 08:54:52 AM
> > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> >
> >
> > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: Re: CG
> >
> > >
> > > Mike C wrote;
> > >
> > > <<-Put in a nose take of 17 gals. >>
> > >
> > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > >
> > > Move the wing?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75" aft of the LE
> of the
> > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never
> get that
> > low on fuel though.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Gordon:
You are officially registered as member number 4 of the
Impoverished Homebuilders Association. Please send me the
particulars, address, phone, etc to recieve the first newsletter.
Dues are nothing and contributions are welcome, and will be
accumulated until such time as the organization finds some use for
money such as printing and distributing a newsletter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SAA / IHA
>Good Idea.
>
>Is the membership open for Charter Members?
>
>Give me the next no. in line, maybe #2
>
>Really I am not knocking the fancy beautiful glass airs as I have
just
>bought plans for the Quickie and plan to try my hand at glass work
after 25
>yrs of not doing it. Have worked at making Fiberglass Vacuum molding
molds
>once.
>
>But I really do like the oldies but goodies better, can always buy a
SpamCan
>with a trip to the friendly bank.
>
>Gordon
>SAA 952
>EAA 0595215
>Interesting I have 952 in both memberships.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:15 PM
>Subject: SAA / IHA
>
>
>> Perhaps we need something a step closer to the reality most of
us
>> live in.... How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
project
>> which is not a Piet is rapidly increasing in cost, and will
probably
>> exceed that figure when completed... though if I hadn't built
>> everything twice I'd be within that budget... ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unsubscribe Piet |
Try using Vinegar with T-88.............
-----Original Message-----
From: GREA738(at)aol.com <GREA738(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Unsubscribe Piet
>Steve,
>Have tried the directions as provided by Gordon B. about 10 days ago with
no
>luck.
>Please unsubscribe me.
>Will be on the road for about ten days and don't think my mail could handle
>all of the Piet mail sent in that time span.
>Thanks.
>
>PS, Took my first Piet rib out of the new jig today. no spring back! Now
to
>start mass producing the 1500 or so pieces for the wing. Did the first
side
>with T-88, back side with Titebond II. Titebond is much easier to use,
clean
>up etc. with water (vs MEK), have experience with Titebond - jury still out
>regarding what will be used.
>Found a Ford "A" Guru about 80 miles from here, reportedly has a small barn
>full that he sells and/or rebuilds. Will check it out after Hershey.
>
>Have gleaned 27 pages (MS word) from this very interesting mail page -
GREAT
>source!
>Denis G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: chrome-moly steel |
Gary:
Your statement:
>Chrome-molly steel is about four times the tensile strength of SAE
1025 >steel. It's properties are toughness and wear resistance. Ref.
A&P Tech >gen textbook. I would not use standard steel on any flight
control system.
Is very misleading. Standard tensile strength of 4130 chrome moly
steel is 90,000 PSI. Mild steel is normally about 60,000 PSI. My
math says that the difference is 50%, not 400%. However 4130 steel
may be tempered to somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 psi. It
is not available generally at such a temper. In most aircraft
structures which are welded the chrome moly steel is normalized and
offers very little additional strength over mild steel. It has been
debated for years weather it was worthwhile to use 4130 when the
clusters were soft and only the steel beyond the reach of the heat
retained it's factory strength. The primary advantage is that it may
be had in many sizes and thicknesses in seamless tubing......I
challenge anybody to find material to build an aircraft from mild
steel tubing in the same dimensions of seamless tubing...... It can't
be done!!
H.W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
I don't trust all these new-fangled glues. I use Resorcinol. Airplanes have been
built with it since the 1930's and they don't come apart. I've noticed that
every time there is a new glue to try, it is always compared to Resorcinol,
which is considered the standard. I don't recall ever seeing a glue that was
considered better in every respect than Resorcinol, so why not use it? It is
easy to mix, is inexpensive (compared to epoxy) and cleans up with water. Only
problem is it has no gap filling tendencies, so joints must be very close.
Any place where I can't get a good tight joint, I use T-88.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall [SMTP:arkiesair(at)surfree.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:36 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: holy moly
>
> Walter
>
> We used flour and water when we were kids pasting things into our scrap book.
It does not stick after 40 yrs.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:25 PM
> Subject: holy moly
>
> Was down in the "airplane factory" tonite and had to make a small wooden
box to keep stuff in. Well, dad always taught me to glue something to keep
it tite. So I looked for the "Elmers" on the shelf, but spotted the " yellow
furniture glue" first. It was Titebond ll. Holy moly, this is what people
are going to build a plane with? First of all if you look on the label it says
not to use below waterline. What if you get rain at a flyin and a little puddle
lays back near the sternpost of the fuselage? Is a little while ok? When
will it desolve?
> This bottle has to be 15 years old and the price is $2.99 for 8 oz.
( 8 oz. = 1/2 pint, 16 oz.=pint, 2 pints=qt.) a quart of T88 is about $25.00
from Aircraft Spruce ( a better deal at twice the price)
> Maybe flour and water is an option.
> walt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box. |
Ken,
Are you building a second Christavia? Check out new battery technology.
You can get much smaller batteries these days that don't outgas or leak. All
of my electrical stuff is at home and I'm 500 miles away at work, but check out
some of the on-line electric and battery sites. You are going to have a lot
of feet of very heavy #2 wire otherwise.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 06:03:41 PM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Battery Box.
The plans for the Christavia show the battery on the firewall. However,
that will put the CG too far forward. So, it's going behind the rear seat.
That means that I'll need to build a battery bbox to store it in. I'm
thinking of building it out of 1/4" ply with fiberglass inside and out.
The question is simple: How resistant is West System resign to battery
acid? Is there a good coating that I could use in the box to seal it in
the case of a leak? What do you Piet guys do?
Thanks,
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TEXAS FLY IN |
Gary,
Congratulations on the house. Hope to see ya
in Burnet.
Will have more info and pass it on....
Mike
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
>Mike,
>
> I should be able to make the get-together at Burnet, that's a pretty short
>hop from Spring near Houston. If the weather permits, I'll be flying in,
>not in a Piet unfortunately, but in a Cessna 177, N2934X. If bad wx, I'll
>drive. The only wildcard is how much work that my wife judges is done at our
>new house. We're moving, and will be in our new house by 10/1(crossed
>fingers!). A fly-in would be a nice break from paint and paper!
>
>Many thanks!
>Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Walt- I was skeptical about the use of this glue also until
recently a local industrial arts teacher built up his laminated
Fly Baby wood gear, but first testing pieces glued up after
soaking them in water for a week. (this is without varnish too)
His physical testing (vise and hammer) proved the glue to hold
perfectly with the wood breaking first as we like to see.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Culpeper, VA Fly-In |
I'm tentatively planning to fly Oct. 9th to the Culpeper, VA
Air Fest. Anyone else considering this...or have words about
the area/flying over the ridges ?
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: remember,,, there is no precover inspection |
>
> Just remembered that somewhere along the line I heard that anything that the
> FAA sees that looks yellow thru the varnish, they will fail. Cause they know
> its an " elmers glue".
Walt/group- No matter what glue you use if would be wise to make up little
'test pieces' of say capstip material, glue a few, date them with a marker,
then save them for your FAA inspection. The inspector could very well ask
you to break a few of those to show the wood breaks, not the glue joint.
I saved many test pieces from various glue batches but the FAA guy never
asked.....at least this time. If you use flour and water and the wood breaks
in your test before the glue, then the FAA has nothing to gripe about.
Mike C.
Just remembered that somewhere
along the line I heard that anything that the FAA sees that looks yellow
thru the varnish, they will fail. Cause they know its an elmers
glue.
Walt/group- No matter what glue you use if would be wise to make
up little
'test pieces' of say capstip material, glue a few, date them with a
marker,
then save them for your FAA inspection. The inspector could very
well ask
you to break a few of those to show the wood breaks, not the glue
joint.
I saved many test pieces from various glue batches but the FAA guy
never
asked.....at least this time. If you use flour and water and the
wood breaks
in your test before the glue, then the FAA has nothing to gripe
about.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
Just a side note on the rudder bar thing.
About 10 years ago I rebuilt the Super Cub that our glider club uses as a
tow plane. This is a PA-18A-150. The first half of it's life was as an
aggie and it's been towing since. The airframe had about 10,000 hours when
we rebuilt it and I used to fly barefoot. For about a year before the
rebuild, I had to wrap the rudder pedals with duct tape to keep from
cutting my feet since the tubing had warn thru. During the rebuild I put
internal sleeves in the rudder pedals. I can't imagine a Piet getting the
kind of use that this Cub has seen and the airplane was built in '54. I
don't think I'd worry about the rudder bar!
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> Del:
> The Pietenpol rudder bar as simple as it is could be built from
> anything of adequate strength. Chrome Moly is stronger than mild
> steel, but more important than that is that 4130 may be had in
> virtually any dimension and thickness.... Mild steel is not available
> in very many thicknesses suitable for our purposes.
> My opinion is that 6061 T6 aluminum could easily be substituted by
> using a slightly larger diameter and thickness. In general aluminum
> is said to be about 1/2 the strength of steel, but only 1/3 the
> weight. This means that if you size the part to have a bit in excess
> of 60% of the weight of the steel part you should be in pretty good
> shape. I personally would put a nylon insert where the center bolt
> goes through it, and probably at either end where the cables attach if
> I were doing this... but then I'm a bit of a fanatic about bushings
> and plugs.
> I show it as being 3/4" .035 which weighs .2673 lbs per foot {.479
> lbs for the part}. Looking at Aircraft Spruce catalog, I see that
> 7/8" .058 wall 2024 (stronger than 6061) weighs in at .1777 lbs per
> foot {.318 lbs for the part}, and the next size .065 weighs .1979 lbs
> per foot {.3545 lbs for the part}. I would think that either of these
> would probably be adequate....... This would yield a savings of 2 oz
> or 2.5 oz roughly for the part.
> **** Just my opinion ****
> I assume most folks use some sort of wrapping or dip on this part
> rather than bare metal ???? The 2.5 oz savings could allow for a
> nice non slip coating ;-)
> How about a nice polished laminated wood piece there where
> everybody can admire it If you are going all out for the Oshkosh grand
> champion homebuilt award little details like that make all the
> difference ;-)
>
> P.S. Ounces add up into pounds add up into TONS..... However care
> should be exercised in material substitution as the strength and
> fatigue properties of materials are different.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 2:30 PM
>
> >I asked this one before but didnt get any answers
> >yet. After I made my rudder bar out of steel rube, I
> >noticed that It said to use chrome molley tube. does
> >anybody know the reason for that? If it is because of
> >the wear factor from your feet. could I just use some
> >type of high wear sleeve. or is it a weight or
> >strength issue.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
Gang,
I just received my Piet plans from Don Pietenpol
and started studying them. As I went through them I
noticed that the landing gear was made from steel tube
instead of the classic wood design. Does anyone have
the wood landing gear plans? I'm not sure which
method I will use but would like to compare them. Any
info would be greatly appreciated.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
thanks, guys, for all the input on the rudder bar. Is
it a correct assumption that what I gathered from the
different responses, that 4130 tubing IS chrome
molley or very similar. I have been using 4130 tubing
throughout. so then 4130 tubing is ok for the rudder
bar? does anybody wrap it to keep the paint from
wearing off?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: test please ignore |
> dobe dobe do.
la de da, da da do
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
Steve,
How about getting a book of jokes and include a short joke for every "test"
message. It would be much more interesting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: 4130 CHROME MOLY STEEL |
4130 is a chrome moly steel.
> ----------
> From: del magsam[SMTP:farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 7:03 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>
> thanks, guys, for all the input on the rudder bar. Is
> it a correct assumption that what I gathered from the
> different responses, that 4130 tubing IS chrome
> molley or very similar. I have been using 4130 tubing
> throughout. so then 4130 tubing is ok for the rudder
> bar? does anybody wrap it to keep the paint from
> wearing off?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Howard.
Thanks, when do I get my membership card? Sounds like a good deal, think we
can sit out by parking lot with our cups and get donations?
Who are the other members so far?
Gordon
SAA 952
EAA 0595215
IHA 04
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:49 PM
> Gordon:
> You are officially registered as member number 4 of the
> Impoverished Homebuilders Association. Please send me the
> particulars, address, phone, etc to recieve the first newsletter.
> Dues are nothing and contributions are welcome, and will be
> accumulated until such time as the organization finds some use for
> money such as printing and distributing a newsletter.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: SAA / IHA
>
>
> >Good Idea.
> >
> >Is the membership open for Charter Members?
> >
> >Give me the next no. in line, maybe #2
> >
> >Really I am not knocking the fancy beautiful glass airs as I have
> just
> >bought plans for the Quickie and plan to try my hand at glass work
> after 25
> >yrs of not doing it. Have worked at making Fiberglass Vacuum molding
> molds
> >once.
> >
> >But I really do like the oldies but goodies better, can always buy a
> SpamCan
> >with a trip to the friendly bank.
> >
> >Gordon
> >SAA 952
> >EAA 0595215
> >Interesting I have 952 in both memberships.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:15 PM
> >Subject: SAA / IHA
> >
> >
> >> Perhaps we need something a step closer to the reality most of
> us
> >> live in.... How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
> >> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
> >> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
> project
> >> which is not a Piet is rapidly increasing in cost, and will
> probably
> >> exceed that figure when completed... though if I hadn't built
> >> everything twice I'd be within that budget... ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
>>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
>project
________________________________________________________________________________
I have used T-88, and I'm not sold on it. Out of the bottle (bottles) it is
thick, like this it will fill gaps. But then
________________________________________________________________________________
What I was trying to say was that t-88 can lay on the wood and not penetrate.
Working the glue in the joint will help. I have pulled T-88 joints apart
and found that the glue stays one side of the joint. There will be some wood
in the glue that was ripped away, but the glue still pulled off the wood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Howdy, what glue do you use then?
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>What I was trying to say was that t-88 can lay on the wood and not
penetrate.
> Working the glue in the joint will help. I have pulled T-88 joints apart
>and found that the glue stays one side of the joint. There will be some
wood
>in the glue that was ripped away, but the glue still pulled off the wood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Bill, you can get the plans for the wood landing gear from Don Pitenpol but
if you just want to look at it, try the 1932 Flying & Gliding manual. The
illustration in it is identical to the larger drawing that is available from
D.P. If you don't have the FGM you might as well just buy the plans. The
cost should be very much the same. My plans are glued to a piece of plyboard
and are too beat up to get a good copy.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Del:
I have seen self adhesive non-skid placed on rudder pedals to prevent
wear. Also I have mixed sand with paint and brushed it on t-craft heel
brake pedals.
Del:
I have seen self adhesive non-skid
placed on
rudder pedals to prevent wear. Also I have mixed sand with paint and
brushed it
on t-craft heel brake pedals.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
you can count me in also 8~}
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Copinfo wrote:
> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
> >project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
I do some of my best thinking walking a mile through the woods and
fields to the post office. Today I came up with the acronym for the
IHA inexpensive parts exchange: CHEAPEX ( cost effective aircraft
parts exchange ) I threw in the H to make it work.... I don't know if
that's permitted under the rules of acronym ettiquitte, but I don't
really care.
CHEAPEX will be an online mailer of parts available from members
as well as any good deals found either online or offline. CHEAPEX is
also a forum for any helpful suggestions or tales of woe.
For lack of a better name the newsletter for now will be called:
CHEAP TIMES, and I will try to get the first issue out in the next few
days. Please submit anything of possible interest......
I have had a number of questions from new members and I will attempt
to deal with them below:
>Where do I send dues to.
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
Tim:
There are no actual dues, but contributions should be sent to:
IHA / CHEAPEX
100 S. Main
Melville, Mt. 59055
It might be a good idea to include my name until the postmistress gets
used to the idea. I already recieve mail under 4 company names 3 of
them imaginary at this address, so most unidentified mail goes to me
;-)
For example:
IHA / CHEAPEX
C/O Howard Wilkinson
100 S. Main
Melville, Mt.
>when do I get my membership card?
Gordon:
Your membership card will be sent to you online for you to print
and cut out. However we have yet to develop a suitable logo, and I
solicit your assistance in this critical matter.
>think we can sit out by parking lot with our cups and get donations?
Gordon:
IHA / CHEAPEX does not condone begging unless done tastefully.
Bring your project on a trailer (your project might consist only of a
couple of ribs or an elevator surface or a single 500x4 tire, or it
might be an almost ready to fly Baby Ace), and put a clearly labled
donation box alongside it with donations written in letters no larger
than 36" high. Be sure to anchor the box down well and lock it.
There is honor among homebuilders, but not among the general public.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
To all members of the {IHA} Impoverished Homebuilders Association.
Our new organization has now reached critical mass, and I have
established a mailing group with each member registered. For the time
being any news letters will be circulated on line only and any members
who do not have E-Mail access must be sponsored by an online member
who accepts the responsibility of circulating correspondence to them.
At present we have 3 online members and two local offline
(probationary members). Our online members are:
#1: Howard Wilkinson
#4: Gordon Brimmhall
#5: Tim Cunningham
In order to be able to issue membership cards I must have names and
addresses of members. Preferably phone numbers too. This will enable
direct contact between members as a directory of this information will
be published privately to members only online. I have Tim's info, but
so far not Gordon's.
The primary goal of this organization is to promote the building
of aircraft in the under $5000 range through mutual scrounging and
exchange of information and tips. A list of aircraft which can be be
built in this price range will be maintained, and success stories and
scrounging tips will be published in the periodic electronic news
letter. At some future date I hope to hold our first Under $5000
fly-in right here at my home in Montana with permission of a local
rancher we will use his strip which incidentally is at elevation
5000'. He flys a supercub, but we won't make him conceal it for the
fly in. I live in the town of Melville Montana which is in the
foothills of the Crazy Mountains on the east slope where the mountains
meet the plains..... one of the truly beautiful places on this earth.
Population 18. If my friend chooses not to welcome the fly-in ....
he probably will while it is small, another site will be selected.
Send your membership requests directly to owly(at)mcn.net or via the
Piet list. Membership numbers will be awarded on a first come first
served basis, and you may request a non-consecutive number such as
your favorite number provided it isn't already taken. Obviously
numbers 1-5 are taken unless one of the members chooses to drop out or
change numbers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Re: SAA / IHA |
Howard!
Please make me a charter member too. I am gonna try n build my GN-1 for
around 4,000.00.
Steve
--------- Forwarded message ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
>>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
>project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box. |
OK, let's not get nasty. I had a friend back in university days that lost
his foot while hand propping a Chief. He had owned the plane for years and
flew it regularly. His girlfriend was in the plane and on the brakes at
the time. When he pulled the prop through, he lost his footing on some ice
and ended up slipping down and sort of under the prop. His leg naturally
came up and was caught by the prop. There was a lot of blood and it
sprayed onto the windscreen where his girlfriend was. Somehow, the plane
was damaged, but I can't remember how. In any case, I became rather
reluctant to go for a non electric plane.
Besides, have you ever tried
hand propping on floats? It's hard enough to stand on the floats at the
best of times. If you had a heavy wind, you'd have to let the ropes go and
try to hand start while drifting back down the pond. If it didn't start,
you could easily end up on the rocks. With electric start, I generally
untie the plane as I head in the cabin. I hold onto the rope until the
plane starts and idles and then toss the rope out the door and clear of
the plane. Even that sometimes requires a third hand ;-).
Ken.
On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, walter evans wrote:
> Good one Mike.
> My input would be to give the battery a test flight.
> Mark out a reduced pattern. Pick up the battery and carry it down the
> runway, to the trees, turn right till you hit the bushes, now right again
> and go all the way down parallel to the runway to the other end to the
> bushes, right again, and right again when you are in line with the runway.
> When you reach the numbers, put it down. Do you want to carry that in
> flight?
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery Box.
>
>
> >Ken- We hand prop.....:))))
> >
> >
> >Just funning with you. Seriously, I swear I've seen
> >poly type containers in Wicks or ACS catalogs just for this
> >purpose...not sure on the cost though.
> >
> >Mike C.
> >
> >
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Hey gang, I just bought a Aeronca 11AC that was damaged in a wind storm.
Anyone have about 10 good wood ribs for a Chief? Better yet would be a
whole wing. Let me know if it's close to Iowa. I drove to Oregon to get my
Piet project and I don't want to go that far again. Thanks.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Polished Rudder bar |
Funny how you can easily tell the Piets that
get flown regularly just by looking at the
outer ends of the rudder bar- nice and polished,
no paint, no primer there where the soles of our
shoes keep it clean.
My stick was gloss black but after 135 hours the
black has worn off the top 5 " or so in the pattern
of my hand and the dark green zinc chromate shines
thru. The guy I hanger with thinks that is the coolest
thing he's ever seen ! I tell him it's just the sign of
a nervous pilot !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Bill;
The Flying & Glider Manuals avialable from the EAA have the original Piets
from '29 showing the wood landing gear...
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear
>Gang,
> I just received my Piet plans from Don Pietenpol
>and started studying them. As I went through them I
>noticed that the landing gear was made from steel tube
>instead of the classic wood design. Does anyone have
>the wood landing gear plans? I'm not sure which
>method I will use but would like to compare them. Any
>info would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
sign me up too.
John Davis txtdragger(at)aol.com
Houston, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box. |
No, I'm still finishing my first. It's about to go into it's 9th year this
month! However, we're about a third of the way through thte covering and
all the structural work is done. The engine is on it's was and life is
food ;-). Should have the fabric done by the end of Nov and then it's on
to the systems (what few there are). So far, the fabric has certainly been
the most fun and most rewarding and the assembly of the fuselage structure
ranks second.
As for the box, despite the new advances, I still have to mount it in the
plane somewhere and a ply box is the best way to go, even if it's just to
protect the contacts from shorting out (the battery will be in the baggage
compartment area). Even these new batteries can still crack and there is
always the possibility of leaks so I'd prefer to be safe.
Ken
On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Are you building a second Christavia? Check out new battery technology.
> You can get much smaller batteries these days that don't outgas or leak. All
> of my electrical stuff is at home and I'm 500 miles away at work, but check out
> some of the on-line electric and battery sites. You are going to have a lot
> of feet of very heavy #2 wire otherwise.
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 06:03:41 PM
> Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>
>
> To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> cc:
>
> Subject: Battery Box.
>
> The plans for the Christavia show the battery on the firewall. However,
> that will put the CG too far forward. So, it's going behind the rear seat.
> That means that I'll need to build a battery bbox to store it in. I'm
> thinking of building it out of 1/4" ply with fiberglass inside and out.
> The question is simple: How resistant is West System resign to battery
> acid? Is there a good coating that I could use in the box to seal it in
> the case of a leak? What do you Piet guys do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
Howard: count me in also.
John Duprey
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
> To all members of the {IHA} Impoverished Homebuilders Association.
>
> Our new organization has now reached critical mass, and I have
> established a mailing group with each member registered. For the time
> being any news letters will be circulated on line only and any members
> who do not have E-Mail access must be sponsored by an online member
> who accepts the responsibility of circulating correspondence to them.
> At present we have 3 online members and two local offline
> (probationary members). Our online members are:
>
> #1: Howard Wilkinson
> #4: Gordon Brimmhall
> #5: Tim Cunningham
>
> In order to be able to issue membership cards I must have names and
> addresses of members. Preferably phone numbers too. This will enable
> direct contact between members as a directory of this information will
> be published privately to members only online. I have Tim's info, but
> so far not Gordon's.
>
> The primary goal of this organization is to promote the building
> of aircraft in the under $5000 range through mutual scrounging and
> exchange of information and tips. A list of aircraft which can be be
> built in this price range will be maintained, and success stories and
> scrounging tips will be published in the periodic electronic news
> letter. At some future date I hope to hold our first Under $5000
> fly-in right here at my home in Montana with permission of a local
> rancher we will use his strip which incidentally is at elevation
> 5000'. He flys a supercub, but we won't make him conceal it for the
> fly in. I live in the town of Melville Montana which is in the
> foothills of the Crazy Mountains on the east slope where the mountains
> meet the plains..... one of the truly beautiful places on this earth.
> Population 18. If my friend chooses not to welcome the fly-in ....
> he probably will while it is small, another site will be selected.
> Send your membership requests directly to owly(at)mcn.net or via the
> Piet list. Membership numbers will be awarded on a first come first
> served basis, and you may request a non-consecutive number such as
> your favorite number provided it isn't already taken. Obviously
> numbers 1-5 are taken unless one of the members chooses to drop out or
> change numbers.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
If already have a set of plans don't buy another.... the Flying And
Glider Manuals are great fun to read. The 1932 edition shows plans
for the Powell race... (a cute biplane), the Heath super soarer
glider, The Penguin practice plane, and the Ramsey Flying Bathtub, as
well as articles on building good wings, designing your own
hanger/workshop, and "handy kinks for the plane builder". The Modern
Mechanics Flying and Glider Manuals are available I believe in 4 or 5
issues as reprints from EAA and contain "plans" for many very
attractive small aircraft including such things as the Driggs Dart,
Lincoln Sport, Heath Baby Bullet, and a couple of really nice Les Long
designs among others too numerous to mention including of course the
Piet and the Sky Scout. An investment that will yield many hours of
daydreaming pleasure ;-) ........
-----Original Message-----
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing Gear
>Bill, you can get the plans for the wood landing gear from Don
Pitenpol but
>if you just want to look at it, try the 1932 Flying & Gliding manual.
The
>illustration in it is identical to the larger drawing that is
available from
>D.P. If you don't have the FGM you might as well just buy the plans.
The
>cost should be very much the same. My plans are glued to a piece of
plyboard
>and are too beat up to get a good copy.
>
>Don Hicks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Howard
I sent info direct, This is working out good, Montana, great, how close to
Clinton Mont. which is close to Missoula where my good friend lives. Him and
his relatives own half the area.
I am working on another project that could be intragrated into IHA later
which is the UL & EXP? Round The World Flight to be completed by the time
EAA has the 2003 Circus commerating the Wright Bros 100th Anniversary. So
Far I have only been talking with my Ragwing group about it. Gives us 3 yrs
to get aircraft completed and tested before takoff.
Gordon
IHA #04
SAA #952
EAA #0595215
RW1 (To be built for under 3000)
Mohawk MK IV
Super Quickie
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:17 AM
> To all members of the {IHA} Impoverished Homebuilders Association.
>
> Our new organization has now reached critical mass, and I have
> established a mailing group with each member registered. For the time
> being any news letters will be circulated on line only and any members
> who do not have E-Mail access must be sponsored by an online member
> who accepts the responsibility of circulating correspondence to them.
> At present we have 3 online members and two local offline
> (probationary members). Our online members are:
>
> #1: Howard Wilkinson
> #4: Gordon Brimmhall
> #5: Tim Cunningham
>
> In order to be able to issue membership cards I must have names and
> addresses of members. Preferably phone numbers too. This will enable
> direct contact between members as a directory of this information will
> be published privately to members only online. I have Tim's info, but
> so far not Gordon's.
>
> The primary goal of this organization is to promote the building
> of aircraft in the under $5000 range through mutual scrounging and
> exchange of information and tips. A list of aircraft which can be be
> built in this price range will be maintained, and success stories and
> scrounging tips will be published in the periodic electronic news
> letter. At some future date I hope to hold our first Under $5000
> fly-in right here at my home in Montana with permission of a local
> rancher we will use his strip which incidentally is at elevation
> 5000'. He flys a supercub, but we won't make him conceal it for the
> fly in. I live in the town of Melville Montana which is in the
> foothills of the Crazy Mountains on the east slope where the mountains
> meet the plains..... one of the truly beautiful places on this earth.
> Population 18. If my friend chooses not to welcome the fly-in ....
> he probably will while it is small, another site will be selected.
> Send your membership requests directly to owly(at)mcn.net or via the
> Piet list. Membership numbers will be awarded on a first come first
> served basis, and you may request a non-consecutive number such as
> your favorite number provided it isn't already taken. Obviously
> numbers 1-5 are taken unless one of the members chooses to drop out or
> change numbers.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
I disagree---it is our organization, we need to operate it within its
confines, not give up and quit!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
me too
________________________________________________________________________________
I also want to join, but call it the "Impovished Planebuilder's
Association" as we build planes not homes. ;
)
My particulars:
Alan Laudani, Pilot SEL VFR
2148 Raymond Avenue
Ramona, CA 92065-3034
760-788-4369
Varieze w/ O200 Cont. 55hrs <$10,000 to build.
Pietenpol -- material gathering stage A75 Cont.
Budget <$4000 w/o radios and x-ponder
Copinfo wrote:
> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
> >project
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Howard
I built the Penguin practice plane and have been doing taxi testing and
tried to get it off the ground once.
It's a great magazine. I have an original Popular Machanix 1932 I think
which has some wonderful projects in it. It's laying someplace here amound
all my junk, spruce sticks and mis, plans.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:17 PM
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
> If already have a set of plans don't buy another.... the Flying And
> Glider Manuals are great fun to read. The 1932 edition shows plans
> for the Powell race... (a cute biplane), the Heath super soarer
> glider, The Penguin practice plane, and the Ramsey Flying Bathtub, as
> well as articles on building good wings, designing your own
> hanger/workshop, and "handy kinks for the plane builder". The Modern
> Mechanics Flying and Glider Manuals are available I believe in 4 or 5
> issues as reprints from EAA and contain "plans" for many very
> attractive small aircraft including such things as the Driggs Dart,
> Lincoln Sport, Heath Baby Bullet, and a couple of really nice Les Long
> designs among others too numerous to mention including of course the
> Piet and the Sky Scout. An investment that will yield many hours of
> daydreaming pleasure ;-) ........
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DonanClara(at)aol.com <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Landing Gear
>
>
> >Bill, you can get the plans for the wood landing gear from Don
> Pitenpol but
> >if you just want to look at it, try the 1932 Flying & Gliding manual.
> The
> >illustration in it is identical to the larger drawing that is
> available from
> >D.P. If you don't have the FGM you might as well just buy the plans.
> The
> >cost should be very much the same. My plans are glued to a piece of
> plyboard
> >and are too beat up to get a good copy.
> >
> >Don Hicks
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Fw: Re: SAA / IHA |
Count me in.....but darn...I have lost a few receipts.. Is proof required for
the under $5000 plane?
Terry Bowden.... BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:11:34 -0500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Re: SAA / IHA |
(NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS))
Howard!
Please make me a charter member too. I am gonna try n build my GN-1 for
around 4,000.00.
Steve
--------- Forwarded message ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
>>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
>project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Joe:
I need your info..... I registered you as member number 8. Please
send me your contact info.... I promise not to misuse it.
H.W.
Name:
Address:
Phone:
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SAA / IHA
>you can count me in also 8~}
>JoeC
>Zion, Illinois
>
>Copinfo wrote:
>
>> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues
to.
>> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>> Tim Cunningham
>> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>>
>> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft
of
>> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
>> >project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
HI Howard,
Count me in, too. My particulars are:
in work)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Wilkinson [SMTP:owly(at)mcn.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 1:18 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: IHA Members
>
> To all members of the {IHA} Impoverished Homebuilders Association.
>
> Our new organization has now reached critical mass, and I have
> established a mailing group with each member registered. For the time
> being any news letters will be circulated on line only and any members
> who do not have E-Mail access must be sponsored by an online member
> who accepts the responsibility of circulating correspondence to them.
> At present we have 3 online members and two local offline
> (probationary members). Our online members are:
>
> #1: Howard Wilkinson
> #4: Gordon Brimmhall
> #5: Tim Cunningham
>
> In order to be able to issue membership cards I must have names and
> addresses of members. Preferably phone numbers too. This will enable
> direct contact between members as a directory of this information will
> be published privately to members only online. I have Tim's info, but
> so far not Gordon's.
>
> The primary goal of this organization is to promote the building
> of aircraft in the under $5000 range through mutual scrounging and
> exchange of information and tips. A list of aircraft which can be be
> built in this price range will be maintained, and success stories and
> scrounging tips will be published in the periodic electronic news
> letter. At some future date I hope to hold our first Under $5000
> fly-in right here at my home in Montana with permission of a local
> rancher we will use his strip which incidentally is at elevation
> 5000'. He flys a supercub, but we won't make him conceal it for the
> fly in. I live in the town of Melville Montana which is in the
> foothills of the Crazy Mountains on the east slope where the mountains
> meet the plains..... one of the truly beautiful places on this earth.
> Population 18. If my friend chooses not to welcome the fly-in ....
> he probably will while it is small, another site will be selected.
> Send your membership requests directly to owly(at)mcn.net or via the
> Piet list. Membership numbers will be awarded on a first come first
> served basis, and you may request a non-consecutive number such as
> your favorite number provided it isn't already taken. Obviously
> numbers 1-5 are taken unless one of the members chooses to drop out or
> change numbers.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
I like to start the Piet from behind the prop while holding on to the
right wing strut. A lot safer. Learned for a seaplane pilot. A little
harder to prop with one hand, but usually works 97% of the time on the
first or second pull. Won't stand in front unless it tied down or
another pilot is on the throttle and brakes.
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Weight Test??? |
I like the idea of testing weight by carrying a battery around the airport.
You're right it's heavy after a while. I don't want that in my plane. I
did the same test with the Prop and it was heavy too. I'm going to leave it
off. Tonight I'm going to test the gear and tail wheel. I think we're on
to something. The wings look heavy too. Where do I stop?
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>> My input would be to give the battery a test flight.
>> Mark out a reduced pattern. Pick up the battery and carry it down the
>> runway, to the trees, turn right till you hit the bushes, now right again
>> and go all the way down parallel to the runway to the other end to the
>> bushes, right again, and right again when you are in line with the
runway.
>> When you reach the numbers, put it down. Do you want to carry that in
>> flight?
>> walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Craig,
Good tip on the propping from behind, I'm gonna remember that one. I used
to hand prop my 150 when my starter died, and that would have made me feel a
little safer! Bet you gotta pull pretty hard, good thing I'm economy sized!
Thanks,
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Try raising your shop temperature. There is an operating temp specified
for this stuff. Also, T-** will start to get thicker the longer it sits on
the shelf. Maybe it's time to turf the stuf fyou have and buy some more.
Personally. I've never experienced this problem. There is never any glue
exposed where the break ofccurs, always wood.
As an aside, T-88 was the only glue that was capable of making a suitable
bond to teak. I used it for the gunwales and inwales of the canoe I built.
Ken.
On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 VAHOWDY(at)aol.com wrote:
> What I was trying to say was that t-88 can lay on the wood and not penetrate.
> Working the glue in the joint will help. I have pulled T-88 joints apart
> and found that the glue stays one side of the joint. There will be some wood
> in the glue that was ripped away, but the glue still pulled off the wood.
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken, or Walter,
I bought the T-88, and have done some testing with it, and so far I
haven't had any glue bonds give way, only wood. It will be my glue when I
get started, but here is my question:
The T-88 says it requires reduced clamping pressure to get a good bond,
what rule of thumb is anyone using to get a good joint that doesn't have too
much "squeeze-out?
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Why not just build the 10 new ribs? Not being familiar with the design, I
assume that they are a built up truss design. It really is simple to build
up a rib jig and fashion out a few new ones. The advantage is that you can
use newer glues, like T-88 epoxy and newer sealants, like 2 part
polyeurathanes, that are better than the original and approved for
aircraft repair. Also, you get to build it with nice, clean new wood that
you KNOW has no rot, dry rot or termite damage. There was an article in a
recent Custom Planes magazine (Aug, Set or Oct) on how to build ribs.
Since you are using "equivalent" materials, you should be fine with the
FAA. Besides, you already have a good patern to use to build the rib. If
there is enough of the broken ones to get a pattern, use them. Otherwise,
get an accurate tracing of one on the wing.
With one jig, you can knock out about one every 2 nights. Add in an
evening to build the jig and a weekend to cut all those little pieces and
you're in business. The best way to proceed is to by the cap strip
and truss material, then cut out all the pieces for all the ribs (a good
miter saw works well here) and put the parts in labeled dixie cups, yogurt
containere, etc. ie all of the truss 1 parts in one cup, truss 2 parts in
the next, and so on. The same works for the little gussets. In all, you
could build them all for $100-$200 in materials.
Hope this helps.
Ken
On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Copinfo wrote:
> Hey gang, I just bought a Aeronca 11AC that was damaged in a wind storm.
> Anyone have about 10 good wood ribs for a Chief? Better yet would be a
> whole wing. Let me know if it's close to Iowa. I drove to Oregon to get my
> Piet project and I don't want to go that far again. Thanks.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I gather that some people are using 7/8 x7/8 for the
longerons instead of 1 in x 1 in, and 7/8 thickness
for the spars. is there anybody that would argue
against doing that, or is everybody pretty much in
agreement with that. Im planning on the corvair. If I
buy 4/4 lumber and be carefull in planing it I might
even get 15/16 out of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I talked to charlie r. on the phone.(He sells ribs for
the piet) he said he doesn't clamp at all, stating
that t88 doesn't require compression for setting up.
del
--- Gary Meadows wrote:
> Ken, or Walter,
>
> I bought the T-88, and have done some testing with
> it, and so far I
> haven't had any glue bonds give way, only wood. It
> will be my glue when I
> get started, but here is my question:
> The T-88 says it requires reduced clamping
> pressure to get a good bond,
> what rule of thumb is anyone using to get a good
> joint that doesn't have too
> much "squeeze-out?
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
> Get Your Private, Free Email at
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Del,
Thanks for the reply! I had the feeling you could do that with T-88, but
wasn't sure. You know, I thought about laying one on another with glue in
between as a test, but just never had. I guess you'd want to at least use
something to keep the pieces in positive contact, but no real pressure
beyond that.
As a side note, I was about to start ribs here in a couple of weeks, and
read an article by Ord-Hume in the Wood building book saying that he doesn't
use nails but uses staples, then prys them out once the glue has set. What
do you think?
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm going to make a bunch of small sandbags with the various bags I had left
over from my Home Brew Beer Supply business. 8" x 10" and 6" x 8" and just
place them on top of board I put on top of make up glued rib and let it set
up instead of using 200 staples as most use, RagWing Piet I am talking
about.
One person put a big plate of alum on his and let it set overnite, made one
rib per day.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:13 AM
> I talked to charlie r. on the phone.(He sells ribs for
> the piet) he said he doesn't clamp at all, stating
> that t88 doesn't require compression for setting up.
> del
>
> --- Gary Meadows wrote:
> > Ken, or Walter,
> >
> > I bought the T-88, and have done some testing with
> > it, and so far I
> > haven't had any glue bonds give way, only wood. It
> > will be my glue when I
> > get started, but here is my question:
> > The T-88 says it requires reduced clamping
> > pressure to get a good bond,
> > what rule of thumb is anyone using to get a good
> > joint that doesn't have too
> > much "squeeze-out?
> >
> > Gary Meadows
> >
> >
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Your damaged Chief brings back fond memories...
Way back in 195something, I bought an Aeronca O-58B (L3B). When I had to
recover a wing, I was amazed to find that the gussets were CARDBOARD!!!
Seems that in an effort to conserve plywood, which was scarce everywhere
except Howard Hughes' hangar, Aeronca utilized this readily available
substitute. Since the wings were already almost twenty years old, and the
cardboard was still in pretty good condition, I would venture that they made
a good decision.
Sure wish I still had that bird. For that matter, I wish I had every
airplane I ever flew in.
Ed
P.S.--sign me up for the Impoverished Airplane Builders Association too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Years ago in NF, one of the Skywagons (180/185) ended up in our old AME's
shop with minor damage. The story that followed was quite amusing, after
the fact. It seems that the low time pilot went to go flying but found the
battery dead. He had successfully hand propped a plane before and decided
to give it a whirl (pun intended). He cracked the throttle, turned on the
mags, untied the plane and walked to the front of the right float spun the
prop. It started on the first blade. That's when our intrepid pilot
realized that by standing IN FRONT of the prop, he had no way to get back
to the cabin! He jumped off the float and grabbed the rear cleat as it
passed by. Unfortunately, the plane was already building up a head of
steam and the pilot wa susing most of his strength just to hond on.
Firtunately, his body was acting as a rudder and helped to turn the plane
around 180 degrees before he finally had to let go. The plane ended up on
the rocky shorline and holed the floats but did no other damage. The pilot
swam ashore and shut down the plane.
Unfortunately, the AME has since passed on and there is no way to verify
the story. However, it certainly sounds plausible.
Ken
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Craig Lawler wrote:
> I like to start the Piet from behind the prop while holding on to the
> right wing strut. A lot safer. Learned for a seaplane pilot. A little
> harder to prop with one hand, but usually works 97% of the time on the
> first or second pull. Won't stand in front unless it tied down or
> another pilot is on the throttle and brakes.
>
> Craig
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I tend to apply pressure by hand and move the part against the glue
surface slightly until I start getting some resistance. Then I apply the
clamping force which is approxmately the same as what I'm holding it with.
The slight movement tends to get rid of teh excess as the film between the
parts thins. It also works the glue into the grain.
Ken
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Gary Meadows wrote:
> Ken, or Walter,
>
> I bought the T-88, and have done some testing with it, and so far I
> haven't had any glue bonds give way, only wood. It will be my glue when I
> get started, but here is my question:
> The T-88 says it requires reduced clamping pressure to get a good bond,
> what rule of thumb is anyone using to get a good joint that doesn't have too
> much "squeeze-out?
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
Are you using birch plywood for joint braces? Don't forget that birch is
especially hard and should be roughed up lightly with sandpaper before gluing.
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/24/99 11:21:50 AM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: holy moly
Hi Del,
Thanks for the reply! I had the feeling you could do that with T-88, but
wasn't sure. You know, I thought about laying one on another with glue in
between as a test, but just never had. I guess you'd want to at least use
something to keep the pieces in positive contact, but no real pressure
beyond that.
As a side note, I was about to start ribs here in a couple of weeks, and
read an article by Ord-Hume in the Wood building book saying that he doesn't
use nails but uses staples, then prys them out once the glue has set. What
do you think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
That may be a good place to use the West Systems' epoxy. It's a lot
thinner and soaks right into birch.
Ken
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com wrote:
> Are you using birch plywood for joint braces? Don't forget that birch is
> especially hard and should be roughed up lightly with sandpaper before gluing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/24/99 11:21:50 AM
> Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>
>
> To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> cc:
>
> Subject: Re: holy moly
>
> Hi Del,
>
> Thanks for the reply! I had the feeling you could do that with T-88, but
> wasn't sure. You know, I thought about laying one on another with glue in
> between as a test, but just never had. I guess you'd want to at least use
> something to keep the pieces in positive contact, but no real pressure
> beyond that.
>
> As a side note, I was about to start ribs here in a couple of weeks, and
> read an article by Ord-Hume in the Wood building book saying that he doesn't
> use nails but uses staples, then prys them out once the glue has set. What
> do you think?
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
charlie doesnt nail anything, staples do not make any
sense to me if your just pulling them out. besides
always running the risk of weakening the structure
from splitting the wood with staples.
--- Ken Beanlands wrote:
> That may be a good place to use the West Systems'
> epoxy. It's a lot
> thinner and soaks right into birch.
>
> Ken
>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com
> wrote:
>
> > Are you using birch plywood for joint braces?
> Don't forget that birch is
> > especially hard and should be roughed up lightly
> with sandpaper before gluing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/24/99 11:21:50 AM
> > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> >
> >
> > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: Re: holy moly
> >
> > Hi Del,
> >
> > Thanks for the reply! I had the feeling you
> could do that with T-88, but
> > wasn't sure. You know, I thought about laying one
> on another with glue in
> > between as a test, but just never had. I guess
> you'd want to at least use
> > something to keep the pieces in positive contact,
> but no real pressure
> > beyond that.
> >
> > As a side note, I was about to start ribs here
> in a couple of weeks, and
> > read an article by Ord-Hume in the Wood building
> book saying that he doesn't
> > use nails but uses staples, then prys them out
> once the glue has set. What
> > do you think?
> >
> >
>
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at
> http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Stapling Gussets |
Gary,
I am on my 7th rib now. I don't know much about T-88, although I know of
some guys that use it and merely weight down the gussets for some clamping
pressure. I am using staples and they work great. And, I am using Aero-Poxy
which I understand is very similar to T-88. I'm having good luck with
staples and prefer them to weights.
To me...the staples are good because you can accurately place them where you
feel like they are needed on the particular joint. Sometimes this is
necessary if you have any inconsistancies in height between your brace sticks
and capstrips. Also...I feel a lot better about a joint when I pay close
attention to how the gusset lays down. You can see this when stapling and
watch the glue squeeze out just like it is supposed to. I think with
weights...I might not realize if the gusset didn't lay down like I wanted
until after the glue is set. I don't worry a whole lot about height
inconsistancies unless they are more than about 1/32nd inch...because the
1/16th plywood flexes to form and is clamped by the staple.
I use Arrow JT21 1/4 inch stalpes in a hand squeeze JT21M staple gun which I
got at Wal-Mart. Some guys were telling me that they capture a piece of
strap material under the staple to help pull them out. I built one rib using
garbage bag twist ties under the staples and found that they were good for
that purpose, but are more trouble than they are worth. I found that a good
quality set of needle nose pliers (Snap-on) pulls 'em straight out rather
easily. Sometimes I have to use a pocket knife to pry up a corner so my
pliers can get a grip...but that isn't a very big issue to me.
One more note....I have cut my brace stick fitting time in half by changing
tools. I Mitre each stick as needed for the joint. When I first started, I
had a fine-tooth hacksaw blade that worked pretty well for this....then I
went to cutting them on the bandsaw which worked better. With both of those
methods...I found myself wasting a lot of time having to sand the angle to
get it just right. (I dont like sanding either, because it upsets the wood
fibers. You get a much stronger glue bond on cut fibers as opposed to sanded
smooth ones.) Anyway....so then, I got smart and picked up an EXACTO saw at
the Hobby shop. These have a very thin blade...like razor thin. There is no
comparison to the kind of results I get. I can usually eyeball the angle and
cut it...and it usually fits the first time. Makes the process go much
better and I feel better about the glue bond too.
Anyway....the best way is just to start building...and you'll pick up the
skills and the tools to do a good job as you go. Good luck.......Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Ed...Aeronca used cardboard gussets on most of their pre-war birds I think...
I know they did on the C-2 and C-3.......TLB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
one person awhile back stated he had used hoop
plywood, so I checked on it and turns out it is less
weight besides being less pricey. what is the common
feeling about hoop ply? any comments on dealing with
riteco from houston texas. how does it glue? I guess I
started from the ground up. I have my landing gear and
all metal parts near done, and now I need something to
start attaching it to.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/24/99 11:30:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com writes:
<< staples do not make any
sense to me if your just pulling them out. besides
always running the risk of weakening the structure
from splitting the wood with staples. >>
DEL,
Read my post titled "Stapling Gussets" for my opinion on staples.
As for splitting the wood....that shouldn't happen if the moisture content of
the wood is above 10 % or so....(guess that depends on the type of wood) But
I am referring to Spruce, Douglas Fir, or Red cedar.
Also....testing shows that 12 to 15 % moisture content is best for getting an
optimum glue bond. I know T-88 users may disagree...but ...I remember
testing glued wood joints in College and we proved that there is an optimum
moisture content for bonding. I think after you work with wood for
awhile...you will acquire a feel for this kind of thing. I think you can
tell if a wood is too dry or too wet just by handling it. Read some of
Bernard's comments on wood splitting and you'll see what I mean.
________________________________________________________________________________
I gonna use "Weldwood", Thats my story n Im gonna stick to it!!
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Attaboy, Steve! I assume you mean Weldwood Resorcinol, not their contact cement?
I have used it throughout on my Piet, except the areas where I couldn't get
a good tight joint, such as some of the bracing on the wings. It is the strongest
glue around, when properly used. Just be sure you get plently of clamping
pressure. AC 4313 details how close nails should be spaced to get a proper
bond. Also be aware that it Resorcinol requires a shop temp of at least 70
F to bond properly. I think it looks nice too, particularly on laminated parts
like wingtip bows and centersection cutouts. I like to see that thin brown
line between laminations. You'll notice that Sensenich propellors have that distinct
line between each lamination. They've been building props with that glue
for over 50 years, so it must be pretty good.
Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vistin(at)juno.com [SMTP:vistin(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:32 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: My story.
>
> I gonna use "Weldwood", Thats my story n Im gonna stick to it!!
>
> Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Tim-
I have original prints for the Aeronca Chief wing, and jigs for the ribs.
Just finished a complete rib set for a fellow here at Trinca Airport.
I could put together the needed ribs, and supply the spar drawings if you
elect to go for a new wing.
See our Aeronca rib pages at
HREF="http://www.replicraftaviation.com">http://www.replicraftaviation.com
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Gordon:
I'm falling behind on my correspondence...... With all the
administrative stuff from the IHA. We are now up to 30 members.
I too love those old mags..... hours of interesting reading.
You Inquired about the Fly In location..... it is approximately 12
miles south west of the town of Shawmut Montana as the crow flys.
Shawmut is just east of Harlowton (16 miles) about 1/2 way across
Montana on Hwy 12.
Get started now ......... Eventually we will establish a date, and I
will attend even if nobody else shows up ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Landing Gear
>Howard
>
>I built the Penguin practice plane and have been doing taxi testing
and
>tried to get it off the ground once.
>
>It's a great magazine. I have an original Popular Machanix 1932 I
think
>which has some wonderful projects in it. It's laying someplace here
amound
>all my junk, spruce sticks and mis, plans.
>
>Gordon
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Landing Gear
>
>
>> If already have a set of plans don't buy another.... the Flying And
>> Glider Manuals are great fun to read. The 1932 edition shows plans
>> for the Powell race... (a cute biplane), the Heath super soarer
>> glider, The Penguin practice plane, and the Ramsey Flying Bathtub,
as
>> well as articles on building good wings, designing your own
>> hanger/workshop, and "handy kinks for the plane builder". The
Modern
>> Mechanics Flying and Glider Manuals are available I believe in 4 or
5
>> issues as reprints from EAA and contain "plans" for many very
>> attractive small aircraft including such things as the Driggs Dart,
>> Lincoln Sport, Heath Baby Bullet, and a couple of really nice Les
Long
>> designs among others too numerous to mention including of course
the
>> Piet and the Sky Scout. An investment that will yield many hours
of
>> daydreaming pleasure ;-) ........
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DonanClara(at)aol.com <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: Landing Gear
>>
>>
>> >Bill, you can get the plans for the wood landing gear from Don
>> Pitenpol but
>> >if you just want to look at it, try the 1932 Flying & Gliding
manual.
>> The
>> >illustration in it is identical to the larger drawing that is
>> available from
>> >D.P. If you don't have the FGM you might as well just buy the
plans.
>> The
>> >cost should be very much the same. My plans are glued to a piece
of
>> plyboard
>> >and are too beat up to get a good copy.
>> >
>> >Don Hicks
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
That the powder stuff? Mix with water, If so my Uncle Roy used it to glue
his Fishing Tackle boxes with, marine ply, I still have 5 boxes that are
over 40 yrs old and I have had one break when it dropped off the shelf with
50 lbs of tools in it, It broke the wood and not the glue. We used to mix
it up and put it in a brass oil can with a trigger, use trigger to push it
out, But ya better clean the thing out good before it sets up or the OilCan
is wasted, I worked for him off and on when I was in school. Hoffman Tackle
Boxes.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <vistin(at)juno.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:31 AM
> I gonna use "Weldwood", Thats my story n Im gonna stick to it!!
>
> Steve
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrea Vavassori <redbaron(at)mediacom.it> |
| Subject: | Hello from Italy! |
Hi to all!
Just joined the Pietenpol discussion List and I'd like to make a
brief introduction... My name is Andrea, 31, and I'm from Italy. I'm
a hobby model retailer and I've been an aeromodeller for the past 26
years. My experience with homebuilding started when I was 17 and a
friend of mine asked me to help him in the restoration of his Super
Cub. I happily started what eventually would evolve in a 2000 hour
restoration on my part, plus 4000 hours on my friend. (a few months
ago this very airplane underwent his first 500-hour inspection).
Thereafter I started building my own creature, a Volksplane VP-1,
which made his first flight, after about 3000 hours of work, at the
end of July 1999 and is now going through its test flight schedule.
Now the workshop was supposed to remain empty, so to avoid this
undesiderable condition :-) another VP started taking shape a few
months ago (a friend decided my experience would have become wasted
so he made a hard sacrifice on his own allowing me to help him with
this construction :-) ), a Falco F8L is planned to be begun next year
and my father, who helped me 50/50 on my VP, is starting his own
Pietenpol Air Camper, and that's the very reason now I'm here with
you guys :-). I do hope both to find THE answer for all the questions
and to be helpful on my part for others.
SeeYa!
Andrea Vavassori
Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA
First Flight July 25th, 1999
EAA #348037
CAP #1080
Homepage: http://www.modelberg.com
I-BYRA homepage: http://www.modelberg.com/vp.html (under construction)
ICQ #15014472
snail mail: Via Moroni, 66
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stapling Gussets |
Thanks everybody for the info, I think Terry is right, I need to quit
sitting on the sidelines and start cutting and gluing!
Terry, I used the xacto razor saw when I was building RC models, and I do
remember it making clean sharp cuts - good advice. I think I'll try a rib
with staples, and one without, just to compare time spent, and quality of
the job. Maybe even test them both to death just to see if there is any
difference. You can read all the books you want, but since you're the test
pilot up there, YOU have to be the one who has confidence in the build!
Anyway, thanks again for the info everybody, we're just about in our house
now, so maybe I can start thinking about my workbench, and getting to
building!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I have found that once T88 has been opened and then placed on the shelf
for more than a year ( I am not sure what the shelf life is ) the joints
may fail. I had gussets pop off when the weather got humid. I just built
a wood kayak using MAS Epoxy. This epoxy is great to work with, it comes
in plastic jugs that have metering pumps. The ratio is one to one. I
haven't had time to contact MAS about the use on aircraft but I think
that the base chemical makeup on all epoxies are the same. MAS epoxy is
available through
Chesapeake Light Craft
1805 George Ave
Annapolis, MD. 21401
410-267-6137
web site www.clcboats.com ( look under building materials)
MAS can be contacted at
1-888-627-3769
or fax
1-609-663-4548
Also cab-o-sil can be added to the epoxy to thicken it up some, ( this
is recommended on a wood to wood bond when using MAS )
I have found that once T88 has been
opened and
then placed on the shelf for more than a year ( I am not sure what the
shelf
life is ) the joints may fail. I had gussets pop off when the weather
got humid.
I just built a wood kayak using MAS Epoxy. This epoxy is great to work
with, it
comes in plastic jugs that have metering pumps. The ratio is one to one.
I
haven't had time to contact MAS about the use on aircraft but I think
that the
base chemical makeup on all epoxies are the same. MAS epoxy is available
through
Chesapeake Light Craft
1805 George Ave
Annapolis, MD. 21401
410-267-6137
web site
href"http://www.clcboats.com">www.clcboats.com ( look under
building
materials)
MAS can be contacted at
1-888-627-3769
or fax
1-609-663-4548
Also cab-o-sil can be added to the
epoxy to
thicken it up some, ( this is recommended on a wood to wood bond when
using MAS
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
Howard
Great start for the new airplane group. I have had so many people contact me
in the last day I just can't believe it.
Thanks for moving me to the open spot #02 I will start working on the New
IHA Web Site tonite. I have moved my other stuff to one of my other web
sites.
If I can't fly up maybe I bring the Practice Plane for the kids to play
with.
Tow it behind the Harley.
Gordon
IHA #02
SAA # 952
EAA # 0595215
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 11:02 AM
| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear |
> Gordon:
> I'm falling behind on my correspondence...... With all the
> administrative stuff from the IHA. We are now up to 30 members.
>
> I too love those old mags..... hours of interesting reading.
>
> You Inquired about the Fly In location..... it is approximately 12
> miles south west of the town of Shawmut Montana as the crow flys.
> Shawmut is just east of Harlowton (16 miles) about 1/2 way across
> Montana on Hwy 12.
> Get started now ......... Eventually we will establish a date, and I
> will attend even if nobody else shows up ;-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Landing Gear
>
>
> >Howard
> >
> >I built the Penguin practice plane and have been doing taxi testing
> and
> >tried to get it off the ground once.
> >
> >It's a great magazine. I have an original Popular Machanix 1932 I
> think
> >which has some wonderful projects in it. It's laying someplace here
> amound
> >all my junk, spruce sticks and mis, plans.
> >
> >Gordon
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:17 PM
> >Subject: Re: Landing Gear
> >
> >
> >> If already have a set of plans don't buy another.... the Flying And
> >> Glider Manuals are great fun to read. The 1932 edition shows plans
> >> for the Powell race... (a cute biplane), the Heath super soarer
> >> glider, The Penguin practice plane, and the Ramsey Flying Bathtub,
> as
> >> well as articles on building good wings, designing your own
> >> hanger/workshop, and "handy kinks for the plane builder". The
> Modern
> >> Mechanics Flying and Glider Manuals are available I believe in 4 or
> 5
> >> issues as reprints from EAA and contain "plans" for many very
> >> attractive small aircraft including such things as the Driggs Dart,
> >> Lincoln Sport, Heath Baby Bullet, and a couple of really nice Les
> Long
> >> designs among others too numerous to mention including of course
> the
> >> Piet and the Sky Scout. An investment that will yield many hours
> of
> >> daydreaming pleasure ;-) ........
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: DonanClara(at)aol.com <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
> >> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:19 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Landing Gear
> >>
> >>
> >> >Bill, you can get the plans for the wood landing gear from Don
> >> Pitenpol but
> >> >if you just want to look at it, try the 1932 Flying & Gliding
> manual.
> >> The
> >> >illustration in it is identical to the larger drawing that is
> >> available from
> >> >D.P. If you don't have the FGM you might as well just buy the
> plans.
> >> The
> >> >cost should be very much the same. My plans are glued to a piece
> of
> >> plyboard
> >> >and are too beat up to get a good copy.
> >> >
> >> >Don Hicks
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gideon <gideon(at)eci.co.za> |
| Subject: | South African Pietenpols |
Any South African Pietenpols.
Gideon
gideon(at)eci.co.za
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Welcome Andrea
You have come to the right place to get help on your Pietenpol or anything
else you may want to build. These guys on this list have a few hundred years
of combined experiance.
Gordon
IHA #02
SAA #952
EAA #0595215
WebMaster IHA
RW1 Piet (Building)
Mohawk MK IV (In Layout)
Super Quickie (Re-Design)
Others
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andrea Vavassori <redbaron(at)mediacom.it> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:32 PM
| Subject: | Hello from Italy! |
> Hi to all!
>
> Just joined the Pietenpol discussion List and I'd like to make a
> brief introduction... My name is Andrea, 31, and I'm from Italy. I'm
> a hobby model retailer and I've been an aeromodeller for the past 26
> years. My experience with homebuilding started when I was 17 and a
> friend of mine asked me to help him in the restoration of his Super
> Cub. I happily started what eventually would evolve in a 2000 hour
> restoration on my part, plus 4000 hours on my friend. (a few months
> ago this very airplane underwent his first 500-hour inspection).
> Thereafter I started building my own creature, a Volksplane VP-1,
> which made his first flight, after about 3000 hours of work, at the
> end of July 1999 and is now going through its test flight schedule.
> Now the workshop was supposed to remain empty, so to avoid this
> undesiderable condition :-) another VP started taking shape a few
> months ago (a friend decided my experience would have become wasted
> so he made a hard sacrifice on his own allowing me to help him with
> this construction :-) ), a Falco F8L is planned to be begun next year
> and my father, who helped me 50/50 on my VP, is starting his own
> Pietenpol Air Camper, and that's the very reason now I'm here with
> you guys :-). I do hope both to find THE answer for all the questions
> and to be helpful on my part for others.
>
>
> SeeYa!
>
> Andrea Vavassori
>
> Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA
> First Flight July 25th, 1999
> EAA #348037
> CAP #1080
>
> Homepage: http://www.modelberg.com
> I-BYRA homepage: http://www.modelberg.com/vp.html (under construction)
> ICQ #15014472
> snail mail: Via Moroni, 66
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Weikel <jandd(at)maverickbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stapling Gussets |
I used staples 1/4 J-21 for all plywood to wood glue joints (T-88) on my
RW-6 and have had good results. Approx 6000 staples used and pulled out. I
hate to pull those little suckers......
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stapling Gussets
> Thanks everybody for the info, I think Terry is right, I need to quit
>sitting on the sidelines and start cutting and gluing!
>
>Terry, I used the xacto razor saw when I was building RC models, and I do
>remember it making clean sharp cuts - good advice. I think I'll try a rib
>with staples, and one without, just to compare time spent, and quality of
>the job. Maybe even test them both to death just to see if there is any
>difference. You can read all the books you want, but since you're the test
>pilot up there, YOU have to be the one who has confidence in the build!
>
> Anyway, thanks again for the info everybody, we're just about in our
house
>now, so maybe I can start thinking about my workbench, and getting to
>building!
>
>Gary
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Weikel <jandd(at)maverickbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Hello Andrea,
Welcome to the group. What engine prop combination did you use on your
VP-1? How about the performance of the plane?
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Vavassori <redbaron(at)mediacom.it>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello from Italy!
>Hi to all!
>
>Just joined the Pietenpol discussion List and I'd like to make a
>brief introduction... My name is Andrea, 31, and I'm from Italy. I'm
>a hobby model retailer and I've been an aeromodeller for the past 26
>years. My experience with homebuilding started when I was 17 and a
>friend of mine asked me to help him in the restoration of his Super
>Cub. I happily started what eventually would evolve in a 2000 hour
>restoration on my part, plus 4000 hours on my friend. (a few months
>ago this very airplane underwent his first 500-hour inspection).
>Thereafter I started building my own creature, a Volksplane VP-1,
>which made his first flight, after about 3000 hours of work, at the
>end of July 1999 and is now going through its test flight schedule.
>Now the workshop was supposed to remain empty, so to avoid this
>undesiderable condition :-) another VP started taking shape a few
>months ago (a friend decided my experience would have become wasted
>so he made a hard sacrifice on his own allowing me to help him with
>this construction :-) ), a Falco F8L is planned to be begun next year
>and my father, who helped me 50/50 on my VP, is starting his own
>Pietenpol Air Camper, and that's the very reason now I'm here with
>you guys :-). I do hope both to find THE answer for all the questions
>and to be helpful on my part for others.
>
>
>SeeYa!
>
>Andrea Vavassori
>
>Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA
>First Flight July 25th, 1999
>EAA #348037
>CAP #1080
>
>Homepage: http://www.modelberg.com
>I-BYRA homepage: http://www.modelberg.com/vp.html (under construction)
>ICQ #15014472
>snail mail: Via Moroni, 66
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
The Trina Airport you are refering to, is that in Andover NJ. If so, I used to
work for Pete Billow years ago there. I was probobly the last person to paint the
roof on the hangar!
Replicraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> Tim-
> I have original prints for the Aeronca Chief wing, and jigs for the ribs.
> Just finished a complete rib set for a fellow here at Trinca Airport.
> I could put together the needed ribs, and supply the spar drawings if you
> elect to go for a new wing.
> See our Aeronca rib pages at
> HREF="http://www.replicraftaviation.com">http://www.replicraftaviation.com
>
> Steve
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
welcome! sounds like you've got more experience then
all of us put together(just kidding)
--- Andrea Vavassori wrote:
> Hi to all!
>
> Just joined the Pietenpol discussion List and I'd
> like to make a
> brief introduction... My name is Andrea, 31, and I'm
> from Italy. I'm
> a hobby model retailer and I've been an aeromodeller
> for the past 26
> years. My experience with homebuilding started when
> I was 17 and a
> friend of mine asked me to help him in the
> restoration of his Super
> Cub. I happily started what eventually would evolve
> in a 2000 hour
> restoration on my part, plus 4000 hours on my
> friend. (a few months
> ago this very airplane underwent his first 500-hour
> inspection).
> Thereafter I started building my own creature, a
> Volksplane VP-1,
> which made his first flight, after about 3000 hours
> of work, at the
> end of July 1999 and is now going through its test
> flight schedule.
> Now the workshop was supposed to remain empty, so to
> avoid this
> undesiderable condition :-) another VP started
> taking shape a few
> months ago (a friend decided my experience would
> have become wasted
> so he made a hard sacrifice on his own allowing me
> to help him with
> this construction :-) ), a Falco F8L is planned to
> be begun next year
> and my father, who helped me 50/50 on my VP, is
> starting his own
> Pietenpol Air Camper, and that's the very reason now
> I'm here with
> you guys :-). I do hope both to find THE answer for
> all the questions
> and to be helpful on my part for others.
>
>
> SeeYa!
>
> Andrea Vavassori
>
> Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA
> First Flight July 25th, 1999
> EAA #348037
> CAP #1080
>
> Homepage: http://www.modelberg.com
> I-BYRA homepage: http://www.modelberg.com/vp.html
> (under construction)
> ICQ #15014472
> snail mail: Via Moroni, 66
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
David-
YES it's the same....does this go into the "small world" bin?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> Joe:
> I need your info..... I registered you as member number 8. Please
> send me your contact info.... I promise not to misuse it.
>
> H.W.
> Name:Joe Czaplicki
> Address:1915 Gideon Ave, Zion, Illinois 60099
> Phone:847-872-2617
ending week #1 of rib building,,have 4 ribs completed--24 to go....found
some real nice white pine trim strips in 1/4"x1 3/4" at the local building
supply house (Menards) straight grained no knots25/28 growth rings per
inch,in 8'lengths. I get 3, 1/4x1/2 cap strips fom each piece.fuselage
complete and on gear controls pedals and rudder bar installed. all
instruments installed...have a box from acs with all spruce mtls for tail
group sitting on bench but after finding the nice white pine decided to
start rib building next instead of tail group. have the A65 sitting in the
corner waiting it's turn to get hung...I do believe I'll have no trouble
completing well within the magical $5 big ones....50% done, 75% to go.
regards
JoeC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: SAA / IHA
>
> >you can count me in also 8~}
> >JoeC
> >Zion, Illinois
> >
> >Copinfo wrote:
> >
> >> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues
> to.
> >> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> >> Tim Cunningham
> >> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
> >>
> >> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
> >> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft
> of
> >> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
> >> >project
> >
> >
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
Joe:
I need your info..... I registered you as member
number 8. Please
send me your contact info.... I promise not to misuse it.
H.W.
Name:Joe Czaplicki
Address:1915 Gideon Ave, Zion, Illinois 60099
Phone:847-872-2617
ending week #1 of rib building,,have 4 ribs completed--24 to go....found
some real nice white pine trim strips in 1/4"x1 3/4" at the local building
supply house (Menards) straight grained no knots25/28 growth rings
per inch,in 8'lengths. I get 3, 1/4x1/2 cap strips fom each piece.fuselage
complete and on gear controls pedals and rudder bar installed. all instruments
installed...have a box from acs with all spruce mtls for tail group sitting
on bench but after finding the nice white pine decided to start rib building
next instead of tail group. have the A65 sitting in the corner waiting
it's turn to get hung...I do believe I'll have no trouble completing well
within the magical $5 big ones....50% done, 75% to go.
regards
JoeC
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin fishin(at)wwa.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion piet(at)byu.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SAA / IHA
>you can count me in also 8~}
>JoeC
>Zion, Illinois
>
>Copinfo wrote:
>
>> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send
dues
to.
>> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>> Tim Cunningham
>> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>>
>> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft
of
>> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00.
My
>> >project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Battery Box Coating (fwd) |
Here's the answer I was looking for. I've passed it along for your info.
Ken
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:10:02 -0400
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gougeon Brothers Inc." <tech-support(at)westsystem.com> |
| Subject: | Battery Box Coating |
Ken Beanlands
7815 Hunterquay Rd. NW
Calgary, Alberta T2K 4V1
Dear Ken:
Thank you for your interest in WEST SYSTEM=AE Brand Epoxy products. I=92m
glad
to hear that your CanoeCraft Prospector turned out great, we like to hear
success stories like yours. By the way, if you decide to do another, we
have developed a hardener, product number 207 Special Coating Hardener, tha=
t
gives even better clarity than the 205.
Regarding the battery box, you should have no problems coating the box with
WEST SYSTEM epoxy. Our tests have shown great resistance in both
compression and hardness to battery acid. Best results will probably
include three to four coats of epoxy. Don=92t think it is necessary to add
any other fillers or additives=85just straight epoxy.
If you have any further questions, please don=92t hesitate to contact us an=
d
we=92ll try to assist. Good luck on your project. Thanks again for the go=
od
word about your canoe!!
Sincerely,
GOUGEON BROTHERS, INC.
Patrick Ropp
Technical Advisor
Gougeon Brothers, Inc.
P.O. Box 908
Bay City, MI 48707-0908 U.S.A.
tel: 517-684-7286
fax: 517-684-1287
URL: www.westsystem.com or www.gougeon.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: another epoxy |
I haven't seen much discussion about the best glue to
use. Well, I think so, anyhow(G).
FPL16A anyone????
JimV.
--- Gary Leopold wrote:
> I have found that once T88 has been opened and then
> placed on the shelf for more than a year ( I am not
> sure what the shelf life is ) the joints may fail. I
> had gussets pop off when the weather got humid. I
> just built a wood kayak using MAS Epoxy. This epoxy
> is great to work with, it comes in plastic jugs that
> have metering pumps. The ratio is one to one. I
> haven't had time to contact MAS about the use on
> aircraft but I think that the base chemical makeup
> on all epoxies are the same. MAS epoxy is available
> through
> Chesapeake Light Craft
> 1805 George Ave
> Annapolis, MD. 21401
> 410-267-6137
> web site www.clcboats.com ( look under building
> materials)
> MAS can be contacted at
> 1-888-627-3769
> or fax
> 1-609-663-4548
> Also cab-o-sil can be added to the epoxy to thicken
> it up some, ( this is recommended on a wood to wood
> bond when using MAS )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
del magsam wrote:
> charlie doesnt nail anything, staples do not make any
> sense to me if your just pulling them out. besides
> always running the risk of weakening the structure
> from splitting the wood with staples.
> been using an office stapler layed flat on the rib gusetts, easy to
> align, very small diameter staple wire, no splitting at all and a
> breeze to remove after glue sets up
JoeC
del magsam wrote:
charlie doesnt nail anything, staples do not make
any
sense to me if your just pulling them out. besides
always running the risk of weakening the structure
from splitting the wood with staples.
been using an office stapler layed flat on the rib gusetts, easy
to align, very small diameter staple wire, no splitting at all and a breeze
to remove after glue sets up
JoeC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
I used ritco hoop pine in the 1/4" fuse botton, 1/8 on the fuse sides &
fuse gussets & 1/16 for rib gussets...got good delivery svc from riteco
and no problems with gluing.
only used the mahogany ply on the seats which will show after completion
JoeC
del magsam wrote:
> one person awhile back stated he had used hoop
> plywood, so I checked on it and turns out it is less
> weight besides being less pricey. what is the common
> feeling about hoop ply? any comments on dealing with
> riteco from houston texas. how does it glue? I guess I
> started from the ground up. I have my landing gear and
> all metal parts near done, and now I need something to
> start attaching it to.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Stapling gussets |
Some one wrote: "why staple, when you will just remove them" The
staples also hold the rib together. allowing you to immediately remove
it from the jig, flip it over and gusset the other side. Doing one rib
a day with weights would have burned me out in no time. Staples allowed
me to do a rib in 1 hr. 40 min. Once did 4 ribs in one day. Leon S.
Also, I never had a single stick split with staples. Also the best
single tool I found for the Piet project was the benchtop disc/belt
sander. Cut your wood close with a saw and sand to exact fit in seconds.
Upsetting wood grain by sanding, as Terry B. put it is no
problem,because you get no strength in end grain any way. You "paint"
end grain with glue to seal it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Gary, My own way to work it is to try to let glue see both surfaces for a
few minutes before final nailing. like for rib gussets, I put in two nails
to set in glue without squeezing out too much. after attaching all gussets
from left to right, THEN go left to right for final nailing, which gives
the gussets about 5 min. to absorb, before nailing.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: holy moly
>Ken, or Walter,
>
> I bought the T-88, and have done some testing with it, and so far I
>haven't had any glue bonds give way, only wood. It will be my glue when I
>get started, but here is my question:
> The T-88 says it requires reduced clamping pressure to get a good bond,
>what rule of thumb is anyone using to get a good joint that doesn't have
too
>much "squeeze-out?
>
>Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Wow!!! My first e-mail to Italy. Welcome to the group Andrea Vavasson. Good
luck with your project and we will look forward to your participation.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stapling gussets |
question. if you're cap strip stock is precise (with
in .005) and you have all of the center sticks precut
to within +/- .005 and at the proper angle. why can't
you put the pieces in the jig,glue the gussets and
place them on the rib in, say, 10 minutes? charlie r.
cant be taking 2 hrs per rib and then charging $300
per set of 31. he would be making 2 to 3 dollars per
hour. charlie uses three jigs. he glues up 3 with
gussets on one side, comes back later and takes them
out. puts more sticks in, and then puts gussets on the
3 he took out and three he put in.
--- Leon Stefan wrote:
> Some one wrote: "why staple, when you will just
> remove them" The
> staples also hold the rib together. allowing you to
> immediately remove
> it from the jig, flip it over and gusset the other
> side. Doing one rib
> a day with weights would have burned me out in no
> time. Staples allowed
> me to do a rib in 1 hr. 40 min. Once did 4 ribs in
> one day. Leon S.
> Also, I never had a single stick split with staples.
> Also the best
> single tool I found for the Piet project was the
> benchtop disc/belt
> sander. Cut your wood close with a saw and sand to
> exact fit in seconds.
> Upsetting wood grain by sanding, as Terry B. put it
> is no
> problem,because you get no strength in end grain any
> way. You "paint"
> end grain with glue to seal it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
an office stapler would be much better then a
construction type stapler, sure enough.
--- fishin wrote:
>
>
> del magsam wrote:
>
> > charlie doesnt nail anything, staples do not make
> any
> > sense to me if your just pulling them out. besides
> > always running the risk of weakening the structure
> > from splitting the wood with staples.
> > been using an office stapler layed flat on the rib
> gusetts, easy to
> > align, very small diameter staple wire, no
> splitting at all and a
> > breeze to remove after glue sets up
>
> JoeC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Thanks Joe...... :-)
You may E-Mail me directly at Owly(at)mcn.net
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SAA / IHA
>
>
>Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> Joe:
>> I need your info..... I registered you as member number 8.
Please
>> send me your contact info.... I promise not to misuse it.
>>
>> H.W.
>> Name:Joe Czaplicki
>> Address:1915 Gideon Ave, Zion, Illinois 60099
>> Phone:847-872-2617
>
>ending week #1 of rib building,,have 4 ribs completed--24 to
go....found
>some real nice white pine trim strips in 1/4"x1 3/4" at the local
building
>supply house (Menards) straight grained no knots25/28 growth rings
per
>inch,in 8'lengths. I get 3, 1/4x1/2 cap strips fom each
piece.fuselage
>complete and on gear controls pedals and rudder bar installed. all
>instruments installed...have a box from acs with all spruce mtls for
tail
>group sitting on bench but after finding the nice white pine decided
to
>start rib building next instead of tail group. have the A65 sitting
in the
>corner waiting it's turn to get hung...I do believe I'll have no
trouble
>completing well within the magical $5 big ones....50% done, 75% to
go.
>regards
>JoeC
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: SAA / IHA
>>
>> >you can count me in also 8~}
>> >JoeC
>> >Zion, Illinois
>> >
>> >Copinfo wrote:
>> >
>> >> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues
>> to.
>> >> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>> >> Tim Cunningham
>> >> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>> >>
>> >> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
>> >> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt
aircraft
>> of
>> >> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00.
My
>> >> >project
>> >
>> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Howard Wilkinson <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | IHA Flash Flood !!! |
I must admit that when I suggested the Impoverished Homebuilder's
Association, I never dreamed people would take it seriously. We now
have 46 registered members, and I hope with the help of members to
soon have our own web page, and a mailing list. I've been swamped
with work today just handling requests.
**** FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO JOIN ****
Post your request to me at:
owly(at)mcn.net
Please include the following info:
Name:
Address:
Phone:
This is for the membership directory so that members passing through
your area can contact you easily and share some hanger flying, a ride,
a beer, dinner, or whatever.
Thanks for your support:
At this rate it cannot be long before we rival the EAA for membership
;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Wonder if Andrea sends out QSL cards?
Gordon
KB6IE
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <DonanClara(at)aol.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 2:31 PM
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
> Wow!!! My first e-mail to Italy. Welcome to the group Andrea Vavasson.
Good
> luck with your project and we will look forward to your participation.
>
> Don Hicks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 6:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hello from Italy!
Don't know, but I'll take one!
Robert Hensarling W5LBF
>Wonder if Andrea sends out QSL cards?
>
>Gordon
>KB6IE
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 2:31 PM
>Subject: Re: Hello from Italy!
>
>
>> Wow!!! My first e-mail to Italy. Welcome to the group Andrea Vavasson.
>Good
>> luck with your project and we will look forward to your participation.
>>
>> Don Hicks
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
soneone on the list asked me about a Hatz I knew of for sale here in South
Central Texas. I didn't know the number at the time, but here is the ad.
Note: The plane was offered for $13,000 at one time.
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
State Ad
TX
1991 HATZ, 250TT, 300-SMOH Lyc. O-235, electric start. Flies good, has fuel
leak in center section, $14,300. 830, 663-3680. s3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Howdy,
What you're saying I've never run into. This is my second project and am
completely satisfied with T88. Even to this day, I'll do joints that I
think will finally be a joint that I'll be disappointed with. But in the
morning I come down to a beautiful joint, with a good fillet and
penitration.
Just one thing.....you do have to "butter" the ends of the rib pieces, and
also the points on the rib caps where the verticals will meet. After you
dry fit the rib,,,remove all the verticals , and one by one apply the glue
and fit in place. You can't just put the rib in the jig dry and pour T88
over the joints like pancake syrup. It won't soak in or saturate any wood
that it is not applied to.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com <VAHOWDY(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: holy moly
>What I was trying to say was that t-88 can lay on the wood and not
penetrate.
> Working the glue in the joint will help. I have pulled T-88 joints apart
>and found that the glue stays one side of the joint. There will be some
wood
>in the glue that was ripped away, but the glue still pulled off the wood.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Steve,
Is that Trinca in NJ? Checked out in a Cub there. I'm building a Piet in
Byram Twsp.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Replicraft(at)aol.com <Replicraft(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 1:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and Wings
>Tim-
>I have original prints for the Aeronca Chief wing, and jigs for the ribs.
>Just finished a complete rib set for a fellow here at Trinca Airport.
>I could put together the needed ribs, and supply the spar drawings if you
>elect to go for a new wing.
>See our Aeronca rib pages at
>HREF="http://www.replicraftaviation.com">http://www.replicraftaviation.com<
/A>
>
>
>Steve
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
David,
Are you still in this area? Byram Piet builder here.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: David B. Schober <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 3:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and Wings
>The Trina Airport you are refering to, is that in Andover NJ. If so, I used
to
>work for Pete Billow years ago there. I was probobly the last person to
paint the
>roof on the hangar!
>
>Replicraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>> Tim-
>> I have original prints for the Aeronca Chief wing, and jigs for the ribs.
>> Just finished a complete rib set for a fellow here at Trinca Airport.
>> I could put together the needed ribs, and supply the spar drawings if you
>> elect to go for a new wing.
>> See our Aeronca rib pages at
>>
HREF="http://www.replicraftaviation.com">http://www.replicraftaviation.com
>>
>> Steve
>
>
>--
>
**
>David B.Schober, CPE
>Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
>Fairmont State College
>National Aerospace Education Center
>1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
>Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
>(304) 842-8300
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Ken, if you get a Tiger Moth stand behind the prop to start it too! but on
the port side of the fuse. You can reach the mag switches from there.
Our poor Tiger has a boo boo. A Military Sea King on its way to East Timor
landed beside it while the pilot of the Tiger was in the FBO's office
signing the fuel bill. The big chopper's rotor down wash spun the Tiger
around and the elevator hit the fuel bowser. I cut back the fabric to assess
the damage and I found the design much simpler than my GN-1's elevator. It
should be easy enough to repair. The elevator capstrips are glued and nailed
to the spar and a small wedge shaped block is fitted between them at the
trailing edge. There is a small spacer of ply and the trailing edge is an
aluminum tube held to the blocks by an aluminum strap. Simple!
The Crown may pick up the repair tab (Might make me feel better when I
sign my tax return) The Chopper pilot admitted his manuvering with
disregard to the other aircraft on the ramp. I guess he is still learning
about being out in the public. He said he thought the Tiger was tied down.
Do you know of anybody tying down at the fuel pumps?
J Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box Weight Test??? |
This is Tim's wife - I am also a pilot - we were talking about carrying
stuff around the airport before you put it in the airplane to see how heavy
it is. He was going to carry me to the end of the runway and back - I told
him bad idea - You are taking this weight thing a little too far. I'm no
heavy weight - Tim just can't handle the load.
B
-----Original Message-----
From: Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Battery Box Weight Test???
>I like the idea of testing weight by carrying a battery around the airport.
>You're right it's heavy after a while. I don't want that in my plane. I
>did the same test with the Prop and it was heavy too. I'm going to leave
it
>off. Tonight I'm going to test the gear and tail wheel. I think we're on
>to something. The wings look heavy too. Where do I stop?
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Gang,
It never ceases to amaze me how like people tend to migrate to the same
type of endeavors!
I'll take a QSL too!
Gary Meadows
WD5CWN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
VE6ZH 73.DE Doug Hunt C-GCGJ --... ...-- sk
> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Hello from Italy!
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:18 PM
>
> Gang,
> It never ceases to amaze me how like people tend to migrate to the same
> type of endeavors!
>
> I'll take a QSL too!
>
> Gary Meadows
> WD5CWN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
I once told my wife after talking her into me buying another radio, Look
Dear I will not ever have to spend lots of money after this because this
radio and hobbie will be my last.
I think that was two years before selling the house to by the Hans Christian
38T
Gordon
KB6IE
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:18 PM
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
> Gang,
> It never ceases to amaze me how like people tend to migrate to the same
> type of endeavors!
>
> I'll take a QSL too!
>
> Gary Meadows
> WD5CWN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Untill recently,have been flying a CHAMP 7BCM ,always proped from behind
,prime it,do your walk around,gas cap grip with left hand,left foot infront
of right tire,(from there you can see the position of the throttle)2
blades,done!Man i miss that plane,it's coming up on my long time friend's
and supporter's estate sale in Oct.
Doug Hunt VE6ZH
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Hand Propping
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:52 PM
>
> Ken, if you get a Tiger Moth stand behind the prop to start it too! but
on
> the port side of the fuse. You can reach the mag switches from there.
>
> Our poor Tiger has a boo boo. A Military Sea King on its way to East
Timor
> landed beside it while the pilot of the Tiger was in the FBO's office
> signing the fuel bill. The big chopper's rotor down wash spun the Tiger
> around and the elevator hit the fuel bowser. I cut back the fabric to
assess
> the damage and I found the design much simpler than my GN-1's elevator.
It
> should be easy enough to repair. The elevator capstrips are glued and
nailed
> to the spar and a small wedge shaped block is fitted between them at the
> trailing edge. There is a small spacer of ply and the trailing edge is an
> aluminum tube held to the blocks by an aluminum strap. Simple!
> The Crown may pick up the repair tab (Might make me feel better when
I
> sign my tax return) The Chopper pilot admitted his manuvering with
> disregard to the other aircraft on the ramp. I guess he is still learning
> about being out in the public. He said he thought the Tiger was tied
down.
> Do you know of anybody tying down at the fuel pumps?
>
> J Mc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Zuhlke <zuhlkeg(at)elroynet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
Organization:
You can say that again!
Gerald Zuhlke
K9YYM
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 11:18 PM
| Subject: | Re: Hello from Italy! |
> Gang,
> It never ceases to amaze me how like people tend to migrate to the same
> type of endeavors!
>
> I'll take a QSL too!
>
> Gary Meadows
> WD5CWN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Several years ago, my wife bought me a T41A for my fiftieth birthday. The
catch was, it was in a basket (actually, several). Seems a young MD owned it
after it was mustered out of the CAP. Decided to go flying one day, battery
dead, etc., etc.
The lad was lucky. The airplane knocked him out of the way without hurting
anything but his wallet and his pride. However, when the poor Cessna hit the
FIRST airplane, it was reported to be eight to ten inches off the ground!
Rebuilt wing, new prop, new tail feathers (? I'm still trying to figure that
out), new windshield and lots of other stuff, my mistress has been flying a
couple hundred hours a year ever since.
Has the battery ever gone dead? Of course. Have I ever hand propped it?
You betcha! How? I TIE THE DAMNED THING TO THE BACK OF MY PICKUP BEFORE I
SET THE BRAKES!! Has it ever tried to run over me? Not yet.
By the way, my wife used her OWN money to buy me that wreck. Even though she
doesn't like to fly single-engine any more, I think she's a keeper.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
unsubscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Weikel <jandd(at)maverickbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
This is a slight departure from the subject and I would hate to cause a
serious snicker attack for all you pureists. Anyway, I was having
trouble with the first engine startup on a Morry Hummel 1/2 VW that's on
my RW-6. I was none to secure about this hand propping business and was
near dieing from over exertion when my hanger mate (an old guy compared
to my 60 yrs) suggested that I use the bungie cord method. RIGHT!!!
Start it with a rubber band...... Well he explained how to do it and it
works. I had an old leather glove that I put a small rock in the thumb
and tied three 18 in lengths of surgical tubing to the thumb (bungie
cord would work better). Then you just slip the glove over the end of
the prop and standing off to the side, give it a pull. The surgical
tubing stretches until the prop starts moving then it snaps the engine
over far faster then you can do it by hand. As the prop comes around,
the glove slips off the prop tip and out of the way. The best part is
that I never have any part of my body within the prop arc. Super simple
and safe. This is especially important to me since I have already used
up eight of my original nine lives. The worse thing that can happen is
to hit yourself in the leg with the glove when it snaps off the prop tip
(use a really small rock).
Of course I don't consider the spectators rolling around on the ground
laughing as being a dangerous thing.
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Hand Propping
Untill recently,have been flying a CHAMP 7BCM ,always proped from
behind ,prime it,do your walk around,gas cap grip with left hand,left
foot infront of right tire,(from there you can see the position of the
throttle)2 blades,done!Man i miss that plane,it's coming up on my long
time friend's and supporter's estate sale in Oct.
Doug Hunt VE6ZH
----------
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Hand Propping
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:52 PM
>
> Ken, if you get a Tiger Moth stand behind the prop to start it
too! but on
> the port side of the fuse. You can reach the mag switches from
there.
>
> Our poor Tiger has a boo boo. A Military Sea King on its way to
East Timor
> landed beside it while the pilot of the Tiger was in the FBO's
office
> signing the fuel bill. The big chopper's rotor down wash spun the
Tiger
> around and the elevator hit the fuel bowser. I cut back the fabric
to assess
> the damage and I found the design much simpler than my GN-1's
elevator. It
> should be easy enough to repair. The elevator capstrips are glued
and nailed
> to the spar and a small wedge shaped block is fitted between them
at the
> trailing edge. There is a small spacer of ply and the trailing
edge is an
> aluminum tube held to the blocks by an aluminum strap. Simple!
> The Crown may pick up the repair tab (Might make me feel
better when I
> sign my tax return) The Chopper pilot admitted his manuvering
with
> disregard to the other aircraft on the ramp. I guess he is still
learning
> about being out in the public. He said he thought the Tiger was
tied down.
> Do you know of anybody tying down at the fuel pumps?
>
> J Mc
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Walt-
It's Trinca in New Jersey... interesting how many people have flown through
that little grass strip! There are some interesting aircraft there besides
the decaying hulks of old Cubs... An AT-6 , a French Stomp (Stampe?) one
PT-17 , a set of Hatz wings ( at least last spring...) , and a guy that
recovers....
Other than that., just some cows..
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Yes I was trying to start a 7AC at farmers pride airport just north
of Lebanon Pa. It was a cold day and It just would not start
so I thought I could get away with cracking the throttle 1/16''
and hand propping. It worked the plane started right up but
began to crawl forward I thought no problem I'll step to the side
that the door's on and grab the plane by the strut and it'll stop.
Have you ever squared danced with an Aronaca
Champ, the plane went in circles
I was able to jump inside and stop it
but from that day on I tied
the plane to my pickup with a rope.
Russell
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 12:04 PM
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box. |
> OK, let's not get nasty. I had a friend back in university days that lost
> his foot while hand propping a Chief. He had owned the plane for years and
> flew it regularly. His girlfriend was in the plane and on the brakes at
> the time. When he pulled the prop through, he lost his footing on some ice
> and ended up slipping down and sort of under the prop. His leg naturally
> came up and was caught by the prop. There was a lot of blood and it
> sprayed onto the windscreen where his girlfriend was. Somehow, the plane
> was damaged, but I can't remember how. In any case, I became rather
> reluctant to go for a non electric plane.
>
> Besides, have you ever tried
> hand propping on floats? It's hard enough to stand on the floats at the
> best of times. If you had a heavy wind, you'd have to let the ropes go and
> try to hand start while drifting back down the pond. If it didn't start,
> you could easily end up on the rocks. With electric start, I generally
> untie the plane as I head in the cabin. I hold onto the rope until the
> plane starts and idles and then toss the rope out the door and clear of
> the plane. Even that sometimes requires a third hand ;-).
>
> Ken.
>
> On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, walter evans wrote:
>
> > Good one Mike.
> > My input would be to give the battery a test flight.
> > Mark out a reduced pattern. Pick up the battery and carry it down the
> > runway, to the trees, turn right till you hit the bushes, now right
again
> > and go all the way down parallel to the runway to the other end to the
> > bushes, right again, and right again when you are in line with the
runway.
> > When you reach the numbers, put it down. Do you want to carry that in
> > flight?
> > walt
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: Battery Box.
> >
> >
> > >Ken- We hand prop.....:))))
> > >
> > >
> > >Just funning with you. Seriously, I swear I've seen
> > >poly type containers in Wicks or ACS catalogs just for this
> > >purpose...not sure on the cost though.
> > >
> > >Mike C.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Please sigh me up!
Russell ray
p.o. box 735 Hardy AR. 72542
IT CAN BE DONE!
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:19 AM
> Howard, I want to be a charter member too. Where do I send dues to.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>
>
> How about the IHA "Impoverished Homebuilder's
> >>> Association". Dedicated to the idea that a homebuilt aircraft of
> >>> useful performance can be constructed for under $ 5000.00. My
> >project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Sorry to hear about the Tiger Moth. Recommend you take many photos of the
damage and repair process. You will probably do better to do the repairs
and submit the bill as the payment might be some time in coming.
Am starting on my landing gear today. Bolted on two of the attachment
fittings yesterday. I've been arc welding all of my .096 fittings as I
trust my arc welding more than my gas welding. Planning on using the large
struts off a Cub for my V's.
With the nice weather I've been able to pretty much complete the major
woodwork on the fuselage. Glued on the second ply side the other day.
I've put 1/8 birch ply over the top of the cockpits/insr panels as I've
heard the aluminum takes a beating from people getting in and out. It
turned out very nice.
Any thoughts on what to use to protect the woodwork? I'm thinking of
using something like thompsons water seal with a top coating or three of
whatever urethane is compatible. Seems to me the newer wood protectors or
even a good soaking of linseed oil would do better than straight varnish.
Comments? Any chance it would affect the glue? (using West System)
Wayne Sippola
Winnipeg MB
PS: sign me up for the IPA. Expect to complete for under $5000 Cdn ($3200
US)
> From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Hand Propping
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:52 PM
>
> Ken, if you get a Tiger Moth stand behind the prop to start it too! but
on
> the port side of the fuse. You can reach the mag switches from there.
>
> Our poor Tiger has a boo boo. A Military Sea King on its way to East
Timor
> landed beside it while the pilot of the Tiger was in the FBO's office
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
I just come back from the local john deere dealer.
they have been doing my welding with a wire feed
welder, which is stronger than a stick welder and able
to weld thinner steel. my peit should run like a
deere.
--- wayne wrote:
> Sorry to hear about the Tiger Moth. Recommend you
> take many photos of the
> damage and repair process. You will probably do
> better to do the repairs
> and submit the bill as the payment might be some
> time in coming.
> Am starting on my landing gear today. Bolted on
> two of the attachment
> fittings yesterday. I've been arc welding all of my
> .096 fittings as I
> trust my arc welding more than my gas welding.
> Planning on using the large
> struts off a Cub for my V's.
> With the nice weather I've been able to pretty much
> complete the major
> woodwork on the fuselage. Glued on the second ply
> side the other day.
> I've put 1/8 birch ply over the top of the
> cockpits/insr panels as I've
> heard the aluminum takes a beating from people
> getting in and out. It
> turned out very nice.
> Any thoughts on what to use to protect the
> woodwork? I'm thinking of
> using something like thompsons water seal with a top
> coating or three of
> whatever urethane is compatible. Seems to me the
> newer wood protectors or
> even a good soaking of linseed oil would do better
> than straight varnish.
> Comments? Any chance it would affect the glue?
> (using West System)
> Wayne Sippola
> Winnipeg MB
>
> PS: sign me up for the IPA. Expect to complete for
> under $5000 Cdn ($3200
> US)
>
> ----------
> > From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Hand Propping
> > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:52 PM
> >
> > Ken, if you get a Tiger Moth stand behind the prop
> to start it too! but
> on
> > the port side of the fuse. You can reach the mag
> switches from there.
> >
> > Our poor Tiger has a boo boo. A Military Sea King
> on its way to East
> Timor
> > landed beside it while the pilot of the Tiger was
> in the FBO's office
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Box. |
Ken,
I have made battery boxes for boats from epoxy and polyester. Both work
fine.
Ted B
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 6:05 PM
> The plans for the Christavia show the battery on the firewall. However,
> that will put the CG too far forward. So, it's going behind the rear seat.
> That means that I'll need to build a battery bbox to store it in. I'm
> thinking of building it out of 1/4" ply with fiberglass inside and out.
> The question is simple: How resistant is West System resign to battery
> acid? Is there a good coating that I could use in the box to seal it in
> the case of a leak? What do you Piet guys do?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
Mike,
One of the things that my PartPiet has is a trim tab. Around the patch I
never use it. But, when on a long (anything over 10 miles...) cross country
it is essential when you want to TRY to refold that chart, take a picture,
pick your nose, etc.
Ted B
Naples, FL/GN-1
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com> |
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:28 AM
> Your mention of "holding the stick forward" reminds me of a question that
I was
> going to ask. There doesn't seem to be any mention anywhere of trim tabs
> other than a fixed one on the rudder of some Piets. Is this because
this is
> not a cross country airplane? ( That can obviously be discounted by the
folks
> who flew Piets ot Oshkosh and Brodhead this year.)
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
>
>
> Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 08:54:52 AM
> Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
>
>
> To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> cc:
>
> Subject: Re: CG
>
> >
> > Mike C wrote;
> >
> > <<-Put in a nose take of 17 gals. >>
> >
> > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> >
> > Move the wing?
>
>
> Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> fuel remaining still falls at 19.75" aft of the LE of the
> wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> low on fuel though.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
> Mike C wrote;
>
> -Put in a nose take of 17 gals.
>
> Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
>
> Move the wing?
>
> Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> fuel remaining still falls at 19.75 aft of the LE of the
> wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> low on fuel though.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
Gary,
Nope, doesn't take a lot of strength to prop from behind. I did it all the
way from Florida to the Canadian border and back this summer.
It is probably all in the wrist. You want a fast snap. Maybe my tennis
serve played a part? Also, the secret to all hand propping is not to prop
from the tip of the prop. I see people try that unsuccessfully all the
time. Come in about 1/3 of the way toward the hub and do your pulling. You
can generate much higher prop speed and therefore a successful start.
Ted B
Naples, FL
GN-1
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:28 AM
| Subject: | Re: Hand Propping |
> Craig,
>
> Good tip on the propping from behind, I'm gonna remember that one. I
used
> to hand prop my 150 when my starter died, and that would have made me feel
a
> little safer! Bet you gotta pull pretty hard, good thing I'm economy
sized!
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Can anyone tell me the length of the fuselage used for the Cont A65, any
recommendations for this installation will be appreciated. Also I am
trying to decide which gear to use. Is there a list for all of the
changes made to the piet drawings?
Can anyone tell me the length of the
fuselage
used for the Cont A65, any recommendations for this installation will be
appreciated. Also I am trying to decide which gear to use. Is there a
list for
all of the changes made to the piet drawings?
________________________________________________________________________________
Unsubscribe Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Ted,what type of trim system do you use on your bird?
Doug
> From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: CG and Trim
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:18 PM
>
> Mike,
>
> One of the things that my PartPiet has is a trim tab. Around the patch I
> never use it. But, when on a long (anything over 10 miles...) cross
country
> it is essential when you want to TRY to refold that chart, take a
picture,
> pick your nose, etc.
>
> Ted B
> Naples, FL/GN-1
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:28 AM
> Subject: Re: CG and Trim
>
>
> > Your mention of "holding the stick forward" reminds me of a question
that
> I was
> > going to ask. There doesn't seem to be any mention anywhere of trim
tabs
> > other than a fixed one on the rudder of some Piets. Is this because
> this is
> > not a cross country airplane? ( That can obviously be discounted by
the
> folks
> > who flew Piets ot Oshkosh and Brodhead this year.)
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 08:54:52 AM
> > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> >
> >
> > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > cc:
> >
> > Subject: Re: CG
> >
> > >
> > > Mike C wrote;
> > >
> > > <<-Put in a nose take of 17 gals. >>
> > >
> > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > >
> > > Move the wing?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75" aft of the LE of the
> > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > low on fuel though.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
> >
> > Mike C wrote;
> >
> > -Put in a nose take of 17 gals.
> >
> > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> >
> > Move the wing?
> >
> > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75 aft of the LE of the
> > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > low on fuel though.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
What have you fellows used for the covering,and padding ,and attachment
procedures for the cockpit openings?
TNX Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IHA / CHEAPEX |
Howard,
Sign me up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
gary
the long fuselage was designed for the a-65. the long
one also has more cockpit length for the tall person.
someone else will have to respond to your other
question.
--- Gary Leopold wrote:
> Can anyone tell me the length of the fuselage used
> for the Cont A65, any recommendations for this
> installation will be appreciated. Also I am trying
> to decide which gear to use. Is there a list for all
> of the changes made to the piet drawings?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: South African Pietenpols |
There is one in Brazil... Dave
gideon wrote:
> Any South African Pietenpols.
>
> Gideon
>
> gideon(at)eci.co.za
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
did the original wheels have bronze bushings that
slipped over the tubes shown in the plans? l'm sure
most of you are using ball or needle bearings now. but
I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with the
bronze bushings, to know how it effects takeoff roll.
I'm tossing around the idea of casting my own aluminum
8 inch wheels. possibly using a brake system off from
a motorcle or 4 wheeler. any thoughts on that? rather
than paying the 600-700 for a cleveland system. I have
an idea on how to build a testing stand to test the
strength of the wheel, but maybe somebody or some
company already has one. maybe this is the first cost
saving article for the IHA.
________________________________________________________________________________
I would like to become a member of the SAA/IHA also.
Robert Klaffke
81 Toba Crs
Brampton, Ontario
Canada
L6Z-4R8
905-846-0602
srkraut(at)idirect.com
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> Joe:
> I need your info..... I registered you as member number 8. Please
> send me your contact info.... I promise not to misuse it.
>
> H.W.
> Name:
> Address:
> Phone:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: SAA / IHA
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
John, here's the ad for the Tiger Moth I told you about.
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P77+C181+A0+R1092045+Q25542550
4
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 9:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tiger moth
Whoops, this html may not work, sorry.
RH
>John, here's the ad for the Tiger Moth I told you about.
>http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P77+C181+A0+R1092045+Q2554255
0
>4
>
>
>Robert Hensarling
>http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: South African Pietenpols |
The other South Africa!
>From: David Atnip <davida@mo-net.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: South African Pietenpols
>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 05:55:22 -0500
>
>There is one in Brazil... Dave
>
>gideon wrote:
>
> > Any South African Pietenpols.
> >
> > Gideon
> >
> > gideon(at)eci.co.za
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
Del,
Howard Henderson's wire wheels are bronze bushed. Bushings are an easy
solution as they are available from any bearing house by dimension. I
bought a set myself. I haven't built the wheels yet.
One cosideration is rotational speed. With the large diameter wire
wheels, the bearing speeds are going to be quite slow. With smaller
diameter wheels and tires these speeds could be a lot higher. check it
out.
You should be able to find stock ball bearings to fit your axels at
reasonable cost too. Then design your wheels around them.
Lauren
mailsorter-102-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury
MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS
v1.44 (NDS))
did the original wheels have bronze bushings that
slipped over the tubes shown in the plans? l'm sure
most of you are using ball or needle bearings now. but
I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with the
bronze bushings, to know how it effects takeoff roll.
I'm tossing around the idea of casting my own aluminum
8 inch wheels. possibly using a brake system off from
a motorcle or 4 wheeler. any thoughts on that? rather
than paying the 600-700 for a cleveland system. I have
an idea on how to build a testing stand to test the
strength of the wheel, but maybe somebody or some
company already has one. maybe this is the first cost
saving article for the IHA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | 8 in wheels & brakes |
Del Magsam spoke of motorcycle or atv. brakes I haven't started
my landing gear yet,but have all of the pieces in hand. I'm taking a
route similar to the one you are speaking of. (basically the Kit Fox
wheel and brake set up) I'm using Hegar brake, hub, and 3/4 axels from
ACS. I think they have their roots in high perf. go-carts. Wheels are
atv. Douglass Wheels 8" spun alum. (ATV). I custom ordered with only the
1 3/4 center hole to mach hub boss, with no lug holes drilled. I did
that myself. Tundra tires 21"x12"x8" that i saw on a light plane i the
UL commercial area at Oshkosh. Ultra Light suppliers(Leaf. or Cal.Power
Systems) have several different brake master cylinders style's. ( I
havn"t gotten that far yet) The whole set up is like the one featured in
BAPN #33, 1991. about using Kit Fox wheels. It all has the Goodyear
Airwheel (1930's) look. I was a bit worried about 3/4 axels, but
Woolsley(forgive me if I spelled it wrong) from Utah used them and had
made made many less than perfect landings at less than perfect airports,
and felt they are plenty strong. The whole set up must be half the
weight of aircraft wheels. I'm going to tackle my glass fuel tank
today. (Spirit of BHP help me!) Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 in wheels & brakes |
Leon
You mentioned about a fiberglass tank. I've never built one , but talked to
builders who have. and after built, the tank has to be cleaned of all loose
particals in the tank or be plagued with clogged fuel filters or engine
outs. Think they call it " sloshing",,,,maybe some who has done it can add.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Stefan <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 11:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 in wheels & brakes
Del Magsam spoke of motorcycle or atv. brakes I haven't started
my landing gear yet,but have all of the pieces in hand. I'm taking a
route similar to the one you are speaking of. (basically the Kit Fox
wheel and brake set up) I'm using Hegar brake, hub, and 3/4 axels from
ACS. I think they have their roots in high perf. go-carts. Wheels are
atv. Douglass Wheels 8" spun alum. (ATV). I custom ordered with only the
1 3/4 center hole to mach hub boss, with no lug holes drilled. I did
that myself. Tundra tires 21"x12"x8" that i saw on a light plane i the
UL commercial area at Oshkosh. Ultra Light suppliers(Leaf. or Cal.Power
Systems) have several different brake master cylinders style's. ( I
havn"t gotten that far yet) The whole set up is like the one featured in
BAPN #33, 1991. about using Kit Fox wheels. It all has the Goodyear
Airwheel (1930's) look. I was a bit worried about 3/4 axels, but
Woolsley(forgive me if I spelled it wrong) from Utah used them and had
made made many less than perfect landings at less than perfect airports,
and felt they are plenty strong. The whole set up must be half the
weight of aircraft wheels. I'm going to tackle my glass fuel tank
today. (Spirit of BHP help me!) Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Are there plans avail for the passenger door that Everett Milletts
installed on his plane? Also can anyone tell me the length of the long
fuselage? Gary
Are there plans avail for the
passenger door
that Everett Milletts installed on his plane? Also can anyone tell me
the length
of the long fuselage? Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
What does everyone think about the center section
wing
tank?
________________________________________________________________________________
There is a guy named Ted in Brodhead with a ratty J-5
that welds them. He gave me some dual, but I can not
read his last name in my logbook. Anyways, if you see
a guy with a red&white J-5, ask him. I will ask a
couple of buddies if they know his last name &
address.
By the way, I am about to start a Air Camper per the
1933 plans. anyone got a spare set of fittings? Thanx!
_danbadger
--- Gary Leopold wrote:
> What does everyone think about the center section
> wing tank?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi! My name is Dan Badger(not Robin Goodfellow, from
A Midsummer Night's Dream). I fell in love with the
Air Camper last October while sitting in Jim Hammond's
beautiful machine and making engine noises. I got a
copy of the plans and am about to order metal for the
fittings, unless I can find some that someone is
willing to sell. I am building per 1933 plans and am
trying to decide between a Ford model A and a
Continental A-65. Any suggestions?Thanx.
_danbadger
PIETENPOLS FOR EVER!!
________________________________________________________________________________
I think you are talking about Ted Davis.
Mike Madrid
>There is a guy named Ted in Brodhead with a ratty J-5
>that welds them. He gave me some dual, but I can not
>read his last name in my logbook. Anyways, if you see
>a guy with a red&white J-5, ask him. I will ask a
>couple of buddies if they know his last name &
>address.
> By the way, I am about to start a Air Camper per the
>1933 plans. anyone got a spare set of fittings? Thanx!
>_danbadger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | john hodnette <jhodnette(at)tecinfo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
Dan: Try www.replicraftaviation.com for fittings. Steve can probably
help you with most of the fittings. He made some ribs for me when I had
some damaged during a household move.
John Hodnette
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | What would I do without my Dremmel? |
Once again my Dremmel comes to the rescue. Years ago before my first
project, I asked a friend if he had a Dremmel, and if he liked it ( he
was not a builder). Said he got one for a gift, and never seemed to
find a use for it. Good I didn't listen to him.
It's got to be one of the three most useful tools in the shop. Doesn't
do large jobs, only the ones that you can't figgure out how to do , or
the space is too small.
Routed in the elevator hinges flush with the router attachment. and to
route in flush gussets. A real pro job.
Not a big outlay that will break the bank. Around Xmas, you can get
tool, case, and flex shaft for around $75.00.
A real Keeper.
walt
Once again my Dremmel comes to the
rescue.
Years ago before my first project, I asked a friend if he had a Dremmel,
and if
he liked it ( he was not a builder). Said he got one for a gift,
and never
seemed to find a use for it. Good I didn't listen to
him.
It's got to be one of the
three most
useful tools in the shop. Doesn't do large jobs, only the ones
that you
can't figgure out how to do , or the space is too
small.
Routed in the elevator hinges
flush with
the router attachment. and to route in flush gussets. A real pro
job.
Not a big outlay that will
break the
bank. Around Xmas, you can get tool, case, and flex shaft for
around
$75.00.
A real Keeper.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Gary,
I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be
nuts, but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that
was BP ( before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into
that.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:36 PM
Subject: fuel tank
What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello
What is your source for Ternplate? I haven't been able to find any.
Mike Madrid
>Gary,
>I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be nuts,
but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
>walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: passenger door |
Contact Everett. He's (was) in the phone book last year.
>From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: passenger door
>Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:28:07 -0500
>
>Are there plans avail for the passenger door that Everett Milletts
>installed on his plane? Also can anyone tell me the length of the long
>fuselage? Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan A. Wilson" <dawilson(at)wolf.co.net> |
unsubscribe piet
please
________________________________________________________________________________
THE FELLA IN BROADHEAD:
TED DAVIS
N. 4031 CO. RD. "E"
BROADHEAD, WISC. 53520
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: fuel tank
What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | 1/2x1/2 diaginals question |
The 1/2x1/2 bracing in the wing, such as at wing tip ,at aileron cut out
etc. The plans show a top view only, is this bracing at the centerline
, or is it to top and bottom of spar?
walt
The 1/2x1/2 bracing in the wing,
such as at wing
tip ,at aileron cut out etc. The plans show a top view only,
is this
bracing at the centerline , or is it to top and bottom of
spar?
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike,
Passaic metal prod
5 Central Ave
Clifton, NJ 07011
(973) 546-9000
They had .015" thk. 36" x 50 ft. I think about $100.00. I didn't ask
about selling partial roll. This is probably 3 times what you need. If
they don't split the roll , maybe we can buy it and pass it around.
walt.
-----Original Message-----
From: Camera Man
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 3:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank
>Hello
>What is your source for Ternplate? I haven't been able to find any.
>Mike Madrid
>
>>Gary,
>>I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be nuts,
>but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
>before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
>>walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
His name is Ted davis.
Phone # is:
608-897-8076.
JimV.
--- robin goodfellow wrote:
> There is a guy named Ted in Brodhead with a ratty
> J-5
> that welds them. He gave me some dual, but I can not
> read his last name in my logbook. Anyways, if you
> see
> a guy with a red&white J-5, ask him. I will ask a
> couple of buddies if they know his last name &
> address.
> By the way, I am about to start a Air Camper per
> the
> 1933 plans. anyone got a spare set of fittings?
> Thanx!
> _danbadger
>
> --- Gary Leopold wrote:
> > What does everyone think about the center section
> > wing tank?
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
That is the wrong address, now.
He moved.
It is:
16117 Hafeman Road
Brodhead, WI. 53520
608-897-8076
JImV.
--- Earl Myers wrote:
> THE FELLA IN BROADHEAD:
>
> TED DAVIS
> N. 4031 CO. RD. "E"
> BROADHEAD, WISC. 53520
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:38 PM
> Subject: fuel tank
>
>
> What does everyone think about the center
> section wing tank?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
Dell, I used bronze bushings on a 1.5" 4130 straight axle. I honed the
bushings to fit the axle with about 0.005' clearance. A smear of grease and
it spins nicely. I expect to I will have to remove the wheels to regrease
occasionaly. I had thought about seals to keep the grease from the brakes
but it probably is easier to just pull the wheel and wipe off the old and
smear on the new. The bearing area is more than sufficient and the speeds
the wheel rotates are low at Piet speeds with 21" rims. RPM of the smaller
wheels will of course be higher. Haven't flown it yet so can't comment on
the rest.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 5:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheels
>did the original wheels have bronze bushings that
>slipped over the tubes shown in the plans? l'm sure
>most of you are using ball or needle bearings now. but
>I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with the
>bronze bushings, to know how it effects takeoff roll.
>I'm tossing around the idea of casting my own aluminum
>8 inch wheels. possibly using a brake system off from
>a motorcle or 4 wheeler. any thoughts on that? rather
>than paying the 600-700 for a cleveland system. I have
>an idea on how to build a testing stand to test the
>strength of the wheel, but maybe somebody or some
>company already has one. maybe this is the first cost
>saving article for the IHA.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
hi my name is shad bell i am from delaware ohio. my
father and i just started building the aircamper. we
just started on the building today. we are starting
with the ribs and next the fusealage. we are wondering
which engine to use. we have an 0-200 which needs
rebuilt and needs the crank ground down to 20 under to
be useable. does anyone know where to get bearings fo
a 20 under crank? would it be worth rebuilding the
0-200 or better to get a rebuilt cont-75 or 85?
sincerely
aviatorbell
________________________________________________________________________________
THANKS MR. JIM, WILL UPDATE MY RECORDS....!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 8:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank
>That is the wrong address, now.
>He moved.
>It is:
>
>16117 Hafeman Road
>Brodhead, WI. 53520
>608-897-8076
>
>
>JImV.
>
>--- Earl Myers wrote:
>> THE FELLA IN BROADHEAD:
>>
>> TED DAVIS
>> N. 4031 CO. RD. "E"
>> BROADHEAD, WISC. 53520
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:38 PM
>> Subject: fuel tank
>>
>>
>> What does everyone think about the center
>> section wing tank?
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNSTMR(at)aol.com |
On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed their completed wing tank?
I am interested in knowing the weight difference between an aluminum tank
and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have been thinking that I
would like to try and end up with an aluminum one. It would be easier for me
to get set up to build it using glass...but I am guessing I'd probably wind
up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of effort into keeping everything
as light as possible within reason. I will do what it takes to get aluminum
if it means I'd save significant weight.
Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Walter,
Even with ternplate you might want to use a sloshing compound to seal the
tank. I've got a 52 year old Cessna 140 (yeah, it's a Spam-can, but at
least it doesn't have one of those training wheels up front) with the
original ternplate fuel tanks. I'm beginning to get considerable rust
flaking every time I drain the gascolator. of course, you could look at it
like 50+ years is a pretty good endorsement. Ternplate is pretty heavy,
when compared with aluminum. I'm planning to make my tank out of 5052
aluminum which I will pop-rivet together, then take to a professional welder
to weld it up. That way I know it will fit in the centersection, and I can
put in all the baffling I need.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 3:01 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: fuel tank
>
> Gary,
> I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be nuts,
> but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
> before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
> walt
>
> From: Gary Leopold < frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:36 PM
> Subject: fuel tank
>
>
> What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B and V Dearinger <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
Shad Bell, Go with the O-200......Check ads in front section of trade a
plane for the bearings.You can always use the power and the weight is
close.There is also a setup now to make it a -8 motor to eliminate the
starter and generator type accessory case to save weight. ..Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 8:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Just starting
>
>hi my name is shad bell i am from delaware ohio. my
>father and i just started building the aircamper. we
>just started on the building today. we are starting
>with the ribs and next the fusealage. we are wondering
>which engine to use. we have an 0-200 which needs
>rebuilt and needs the crank ground down to 20 under to
>be useable. does anyone know where to get bearings fo
>a 20 under crank? would it be worth rebuilding the
>0-200 or better to get a rebuilt cont-75 or 85?
>sincerely
>aviatorbell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Materials for sale at ORA |
_________________________________POST____________________________
Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome Airshows has for sale the following supplies :
(many of these items were donated by the manufacturer and are new stock,
some
are surplus from this seasons airshow activity) All donations to the
museum
are
fully tax deductible, we are a 501(c)3 corp. Any funds collected from
the sale
of these items will be used for maintaining and building our airshow
aircraft.
LUBRICANTS__________________________________________________
AEROSHELL 750 Turbine Oil 55 Gal $ 750
CASTOR OIL AA Baker (Please call 914-752-3205 0r E mail)
DOW #2 Moly Powder 10 Oz. Bottles $ 5
DOW SILICONE SEALER_________________________________________
Clear Flowable Silicone seal 3 oz. Tubes $ 2
ACRYLIC LACQUER______________________________________________
Blue
$
20/gal
20/gal
POLYURETHANE PAINT___________________________________________
RED high gloss mfg by DEFT 2 gal kits $ 50
GREY high gloss mfg. By DEFT 2 gal kits $ 40
PRIMER
DARK GREEN epoxy Primer 2 Qt Kits $ 25
DUPONT 275S grey primer and 285S act. $ 50
SOLVENT_______________________________________________________
MISCELLANEOUS_______________________________________________
SPRAYLAT protective coating for long term storage 55
55
25
LOCTITE 7471 primer Gal
3M SCOTCHWELD urethane adhesive
15
3M Aluminum epoxy adhesive 1751 2 qt. Kits
$ 15
JET-GLO urethane catalyst 578-520 Gal
$ 40
INTEGRAL FUEL TANK SEALER mfg by Courtaulds 2 gal kits $ 40
PLEASE E MAIL Antiqueair(at)aol.com or call 914-752-3205 TO ORDER
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Ribs and Wings |
Walter,
I live in WV now but am looking to move back to the northeast. I worked for Pete
around '74-'76. Flew that same Cub alot back then. I lived just around the
corner and my real job was at ARC in Boonton. Since then, I went to college in
St. Louis, worked for Beech in ICT, then mooved to Poughkeepsie and worked for
an airline there. Lived in the POU area up until about 2.5 years ago when I
moved here to teach at a local college. Talk about culture shock!
walter evans wrote:
> David,
> Are you still in this area? Byram Piet builder here.
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David B. Schober <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Ribs and Wings
>
> >The Trina Airport you are refering to, is that in Andover NJ. If so, I used
> to
> >work for Pete Billow years ago there. I was probobly the last person to
> paint the
> >roof on the hangar!
> >
> >Replicraft(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> Tim-
> >> I have original prints for the Aeronca Chief wing, and jigs for the ribs.
> >> Just finished a complete rib set for a fellow here at Trinca Airport.
> >> I could put together the needed ribs, and supply the spar drawings if you
> >> elect to go for a new wing.
> >> See our Aeronca rib pages at
> >>
> HREF="http://www.replicraftaviation.com">http://www.replicraftaviation.com A>
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> **
> >David B.Schober, CPE
> >Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
> >Fairmont State College
> >National Aerospace Education Center
> >1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
> >Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
> >(304) 842-8300
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IHA ORG - New Airplane Builders Group |
ragwing(at)lists.zyx.net, QBA(at)lists.kz,
Prospector Aircraft list ,
Pietenpol Discussion , nieuportbuilders(at)cuenet.com
Just a note as the word has spread so fast we are 100 plus members in 72
hours,
New Email List, New Web Site and who knows what is coming, most of you
all have heard already but I just want to let you know that for new
people wanting to sign up you can now go directly to our web site at
http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
on the site is a place to Click for New Member Sign-Up
It will bring up a form for you, please fill in as much as you care to
and the info will go directly to Howard the man who started this with a
comment the other day about a new org for people wanting to build
airplanes for less, or affordable if we can.
We are getting new members from all over the world right now.
We even have airplane designers joining to help out.
Also on the site is a place to Click to sign up for our new LIST on
ListBot
As everybody signs up you will rec a Member Number form Howard soon I
hope.
He is swamped but I'm only the WebMaster and not his Secratary so I
can't issue you a number, I don't see your sign up info either.
Check it out anyway, You might like it. The Web Site I mean.
Gordon
IHA #02
WebMaster
SAA#952
EAA #0595215
Just a note as the word has spread so
fast we are
100 plus members in 72 hours,
New Email List, New Web Site and who
knows what is
coming, most of you all have heard already but I just want to let you
know that
for new people wanting to sign up you can now go directly to our web
site
at
href"http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm">http://public.surf=
ree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
on the site is a place to Click for New
Member
Sign-Up
It will bring up a form for you, please
fill in as
much as you care to and the info will go directly to Howard the man who
started
this with a comment the other day about a new org for people wanting to
build
airplanes for less, or affordable if we can.
We are getting new members from all
over the world
right now.
We even have airplane designers joining
to help
out.
Also on the site is a place to Click to
sign up for
our new LIST on ListBot
As everybody signs up you will rec a
Member Number
form Howard soon I hope.
He is swamped but I'm only the
WebMaster and not
his Secratary so I can't issue you a number, I don't see your sign up
info
either.
Check it out anyway, You might like it.
The Web
Site I mean.
Gordon
IHA #02
WebMaster
SAA#952
EAA #0595215
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | RE: Hello from Italy! |
Me too!
Jack Phillips, KA5NXA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert hensarling [SMTP:rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 7:26 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: Hello from Italy!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Hello from Italy!
>
> Don't know, but I'll take one!
>
> Robert Hensarling W5LBF
>
>
> >Wonder if Andrea sends out QSL cards?
> >
> >Gordon
> >KB6IE
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 2:31 PM
> >Subject: Re: Hello from Italy!
> >
> >
> >> Wow!!! My first e-mail to Italy. Welcome to the group Andrea Vavasson.
> >Good
> >> luck with your project and we will look forward to your participation.
> >>
> >> Don Hicks
> >>
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Fiberglass tank weight |
Terry B. I had the tank molds at Benton 3 weeks ago. Spent all afternoon
making the 2 pieces. What a miserable job. I would hate to do that for a
living. I can't say about the weight, but I only used half of the gallon
of resin. J. Greenly of Texas(he was at Benton) used a full gallon and
had to buy more. My 4 layers are much thinner and lighter than the
fellow that we went to look at his wing. (I went to see his fuel tank)
Im convinced fiberglass tanks can be built very light and strong. At the
composite forum at Oshkosh, They kept quoting Burt Rutan about getting
carried away with resin. He says most people tend to add at least 30%
more extra weight without realising it. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
I'm using bronze oilite bushings on my straight axel.
These are available in the correct size from McMaster-Carr for $ 1.50
each.
Greg Cardinal
>>> del magsam 09/26 5:51 AM >>>
did the original wheels have bronze bushings that
slipped over the tubes shown in the plans? l'm sure
most of you are using ball or needle bearings now. but
I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with the
bronze bushings, to know how it effects takeoff roll.
I'm tossing around the idea of casting my own aluminum
8 inch wheels. possibly using a brake system off from
a motorcle or 4 wheeler. any thoughts on that? rather
than paying the 600-700 for a cleveland system. I have
an idea on how to build a testing stand to test the
strength of the wheel, but maybe somebody or some
company already has one. maybe this is the first cost
saving article for the IHA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Walt Evans,
Can you post where you found terne plate? I've only been able to find it
in large quantities.
Thanks, Greg Cardinal
>>> walter evans 09/26 1:00 PM >>>
Gary,
I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be nuts,
but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:36 PM
Subject: fuel tank
What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: What would I do without my Dremmel? |
On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, walter evans wrote:
> Once again my Dremmel comes to the rescue. Years ago before my first
> project, I asked a friend if he had a Dremmel, and if he liked it ( he
> was not a builder). Said he got one for a gift, and never seemed to
> find a use for it. Good I didn't listen to him.
> It's got to be one of the three most useful tools in the shop. Doesn't
> do large jobs, only the ones that you can't figgure out how to do , or
> the space is too small.
> Routed in the elevator hinges flush with the router attachment. and to
> route in flush gussets. A real pro job.
> Not a big outlay that will break the bank. Around Xmas, you can get
> tool, case, and flex shaft for around $75.00. A real Keeper. walt
>
Even cheaper than the Dremel is a good die grinder. They generally are
pneumatic, so if you have a compressor you're all set. They are also a bit
heavier than the Dremels and tend to compliment thenm in the shop. I have
both and use them for different things on the plane.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Russell,
Are located near Farmer's Pride?
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS |
Need help clarifying how the fuselage filler strips are installed. Drawing no.
1 of the 1933 plans are not clear to me. At the forward fuselage (upper and
lower) the drawing says to install 1/2 X 1/4 filler strips between fittings and
gusset plates. At the aft fuselage (lower) the drawing says to install 1/4
X 1/8 filler strips. Q: How does one transition between the two different size
filler strips? How far back does the 1/4 thick by 1/2 wide filler strips go?
How do they transition into the 1/8 thick by 1/4 wide filler strips? Thanks,
Bart
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
Hello Group,
My good friend (and Pietenpol Partner) has lost his medical, and hasn't been
able to fly much this summer, and decided he would like to try to sell his
plane. It was built 'To the Plans'. To avoid liability, he says he must
surrender the data plate to the FAA, and sell it as a project. He wants
$9000 USD for the project. His name is Doug Bryant, from Wichita KS, and his
phone number is 733-2324.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
Just a note on tanks: most areas of the country offer adult education classes at
the local vo-tech. Take a welding class that iffers TIG and build your takn in
class. Very satisfying learning a new skill, no need to buy expensive machines,
and you still get a quality job.
Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
> Walter,
>
> Even with ternplate you might want to use a sloshing compound to seal the
> tank. I've got a 52 year old Cessna 140 (yeah, it's a Spam-can, but at
> least it doesn't have one of those training wheels up front) with the
> original ternplate fuel tanks. I'm beginning to get considerable rust
> flaking every time I drain the gascolator. of course, you could look at it
> like 50+ years is a pretty good endorsement. Ternplate is pretty heavy,
> when compared with aluminum. I'm planning to make my tank out of 5052
> aluminum which I will pop-rivet together, then take to a professional welder
> to weld it up. That way I know it will fit in the centersection, and I can
> put in all the baffling I need.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 3:01 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: fuel tank
> >
> > Gary,
> > I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be nuts,
> > but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
> > before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
> > walt
> >
> > From: Gary Leopold < frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
> > Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 12:36 PM
> > Subject: fuel tank
> >
> >
> > What does everyone think about the center section wing tank?
> >
--
David B.Schober, CPE
Instructor, Aviation Maintenance
Fairmont State College
National Aerospace Education Center
1050 East Benedum Industrial Drive
Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503
(304) 842-8300
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
We compared teh weights of my fiberglass Christavia fuel tank to an
aluminum one. The weight difference was neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was very easy to do and has the
advantages of being double walled, fatigue resistant and insulated
(prevents some condensation).
Ken
On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed their completed wing tank?
> I am interested in knowing the weight difference between an aluminum tank
> and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have been thinking that I
> would like to try and end up with an aluminum one. It would be easier for me
> to get set up to build it using glass...but I am guessing I'd probably wind
> up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of effort into keeping everything
> as light as possible within reason. I will do what it takes to get aluminum
> if it means I'd save significant weight.
> Terry B
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tank weight |
Peal ply is the solution for excess resign. It works great.
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Leon Stefan wrote:
> Terry B. I had the tank molds at Benton 3 weeks ago. Spent all afternoon
> making the 2 pieces. What a miserable job. I would hate to do that for a
> living. I can't say about the weight, but I only used half of the gallon
> of resin. J. Greenly of Texas(he was at Benton) used a full gallon and
> had to buy more. My 4 layers are much thinner and lighter than the
> fellow that we went to look at his wing. (I went to see his fuel tank)
> Im convinced fiberglass tanks can be built very light and strong. At the
> composite forum at Oshkosh, They kept quoting Burt Rutan about getting
> carried away with resin. He says most people tend to add at least 30%
> more extra weight without realising it. Leon S.
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Gaskins <randy(at)icomnet.com> |
Please sign me up also.
Randy Gaskins randy(at)icomnet.com
May you be blessed with a tailwind!
TXTdragger(at)aol.com wrote:
> sign me up too.
>
> John Davis txtdragger(at)aol.com
> Houston, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
One other consideration when trying to decide between fiberglass and metal (either
aluminum or ternplate) - Fiberglass tanks offer no good way to dissipate a
static electrical charge. When refueling, the flow of gasoline from a nozzle
can build up a substantial charge (thousands of volts) in a hurry. With a metal
tank grounded to the structure and through the static clip at the fuel pump
to earth ground, the charge can be safely dissipated. With a fiberglass tank,
the tank can retain the charge for minutes, which can lead to a disastrous
spark and fire or explosion. This can be mitigated to some extent by providing
a path to ground for any charge in the tank or fuel. The best way is to embed
metal wires in the tank and ground them to a large chunk of metal (the engine).
Otherwise, you might see several years worth of work go up in flames.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:16 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: fuel tank
>
> We compared teh weights of my fiberglass Christavia fuel tank to an
> aluminum one. The weight difference was neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
> board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was very easy to do and has the
> advantages of being double walled, fatigue resistant and insulated
> (prevents some condensation).
>
> Ken
>
> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed their completed wing tank?
> > I am interested in knowing the weight difference between an aluminum tank
> > and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have been thinking that I
> > would like to try and end up with an aluminum one. It would be easier for
me
> > to get set up to build it using glass...but I am guessing I'd probably wind
> > up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of effort into keeping everything
> > as light as possible within reason. I will do what it takes to get aluminum
> > if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > Terry B
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Nonsense.
Fiberglass tanks, and rubber fuel bladders are employed on numerous
commercial and kitplane alike. While not as good at disipating static,
the problem is easy to control by electrically bonding the tank. Most of
the tanks use some sort of metalic filler neck. By running a few thin
aluminum straps over the tank and electrically bonding them to the filler
neck and airframe, you can safely ground the plane, and the tank, at the
pumps. The main thing is to prevent a sparc (Err, spark, I've been working
on Sun systems too long) between the nozzel and the filler neck. With a
Piet, the same consideration must be taken, even with an aluminum tank.
The tank is sitting within an wooden structure and is generally
electrically isolated from the airframe by anti-chafing stuff like rubber
strips. This will not allow the tank to discharge to ground until you give
a it a path, like a steel fuel nozzel. Either way, you have to
electrically bond the tank to the structure. Personally, I plan on adding
some thin aluminum tabs to the boot cowl that will be in contact with the
tank to solve this problem. Little tufts of steel wool between the tank
and boot cowl will also work.
Aluminum tanks, on the other hand , have a nasty tendancy of developing
fatigue cracking that is not a problem with fiberglass. So far, I seen a
number of planes that have developed leaks in thier aluminum tanks. The
Citabria I was flying this spring ended up with 2 leaks and the PA-18 was
also leaking before it crashed. A friend of ours replaced his leaking
aluminum tanks in his 172 with STC'd fiberglass ones and had never had a
problem. If you have a nose mounted or even center section tank, the leak
will end up filling your cockpit with fuel. If this happens in flight.....
Ken.
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
> One other consideration when trying to decide between fiberglass and
> metal (either aluminum or ternplate) - Fiberglass tanks offer no good
> way to dissipate a static electrical charge. When refueling, the flow
> of gasoline from a nozzle can build up a substantial charge (thousands
> of volts) in a hurry. With a metal tank grounded to the structure and
> through the static clip at the fuel pump to earth ground, the charge can
> be safely dissipated. With a fiberglass tank, the tank can retain the
> charge for mi
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:16 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: fuel tank
> >
> > We compared teh weights of my fiberglass Christavia fuel tank to an
> > aluminum one. The weight difference was neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
> > board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was very easy to do and has the
> > advantages of being double walled, fatigue resistant and insulated
> > (prevents some condensation).
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed their completed wing tank?
> > > I am interested in knowing the weight difference between an aluminum tank
> > > and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have been thinking that I
> > > would like to try and end up with an aluminum one. It would be easier for
me
> > > to get set up to build it using glass...but I am guessing I'd probably wind
> > > up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of effort into keeping everything
> > > as light as possible within reason. I will do what it takes to get aluminum
> > > if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > > Terry B
> > >
> >
> > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> >
> >
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Chisum <toddc12(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank |
Ken,
Where can I find out more about constructing fiberglass fuel tanks? I have
heard of them for years, and now that I am building a Cuby I have taken a
new interest in them. I want to install two wing tanks. How is your
Christavia set-up?
Thanks,
Todd Chisum
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Wag Aero Super Sport project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
Try Aircraft Specialties in Tulsa. They do great work. The O-200 rebuilt
is the way to go. It'll cost the same to rebuild a 75 or 85.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
Does anyone know where to get bearings fo
>>a 20 under crank? would it be worth rebuilding the
>>0-200 or better to get a rebuilt cont-75 or 85?
>>sincerely
>>aviatorbell
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
I have a fiberglass tank and it weights next to nothing. I never weighed it
and I'm sure it's a little heavier than aluminum, but not much. To have one
built from Aluminum is $250.00 to $300.00. The cost to build the fiberglass
was around $5.00. I also have the tank in the center wing. No weight shift
for me. Since there is no trim system I would stick with a center tank.
Actually I'd put in a trim system.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
--
>On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed their completed wing
tank?
> I am interested in knowing the weight difference between an aluminum tank
>and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have been thinking that I
>would like to try and end up with an aluminum one. It would be easier for
me
>to get set up to build it using glass...but I am guessing I'd probably wind
>up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of effort into keeping
everything
>as light as possible within reason. I will do what it takes to get
aluminum
>if it means I'd save significant weight.
> Terry B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank |
Here's a website with a detailed account of the construction of a fiberglass
fuel tank for a KRS2. If you have a look around the home-page index, you'll
find extensive information for composite construction techniques. For
example, on other pages, he has documented the construction of the sandwich
panels from which this tank is assembled.
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/kft.html
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~langford/wingtank.html
--Peter
toddc12(at)hotmail.com on 09/27/99 10:46:00 AM
cc: (bcc: Peter P Frantz/West/Aerospace/US)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank
Ken,
Where can I find out more about constructing fiberglass fuel tanks? I have
heard of them for years, and now that I am building a Cuby I have taken a
new interest in them. I want to install two wing tanks. How is your
Christavia set-up?
Thanks,
Todd Chisum
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Wag Aero Super Sport project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank |
I have a single nose tank of 24 gallons. The tank is pieced together from
foam/fiberglass sandwich boards. I got the instructions from the guys
at the old Alexander Aeroplane company, now Aircraft Spruce East.
The boards are made by smearing a fiberglass slurry over teh 1/4" foam
boards. When the slurry is tacky, 2 layers of glass cloth are laid up with
a peel ply laminated to the top. When the epoxy sets, the peel ply is
removed and the other side is done. For the curved top surface, I
laminated one side, tacked it in place, and then laminated the top. When
it hardens, remove the top. 2 sided tape can be used to hold it in place
while you do this. This will form the curve nicely.
After the "boards" are all done, cut them out to form the sides and bottom
of the tank. They are easily cut with a bandsaw. I used a Hexel 5 minute
structural epoxy to glue the sides and bottom together as described in the
instructions. Once all the sides are done, a misture of flox and epoxy is
mixed to form a filler material to curve the inside corners of the tank.
Two tapes are laid up on top of the fillet. I prefer to do it while the
fillet material underneath is still wet. It allows the tales to take the
shape easily. THe tapes are laied up with a narrow one first (2" or so)
and a wider one on top (3") followed by peel ply. At this point, the top
still isn't applied. Next, any baffles you want can be added. THe same
foam/epoxy board is used. Be sure to seal any exposed foam with epoxy. You
will get exposed foam when you cut the baffle to allow fuel to flow
through. After it's glued in place, tapes should be added to secure it.
Next comes the hard points for things like filler necks, drains, vents,
fuel senders, etc. The easiest way to make them is to cut one layer of
fiberglass on the tank where they are to be installed. The hole should be
about 1" radius larger than the hole required ( a 1/2" hole for a drain
will need a 2.5" dia hole). Remove the glass and foam so that only the
single glass layer is left on the opposite side. When you cut it, be sure
to bevel teh edges at a 45 degree angle throught hte foam. It will make
the lay-up easier. cut out 10-12 round patches about the same diameter as
the hole. Two more patched are cut out at 2" larger radius and 4" larger
radius. The hole is filled with the small patches soaked in resign. The
top two larger patches are added with the largest on top followed by peel
ply.
The next step is to add your fuel vent lines, filler necks, etc to the
boards. Now you are ready to seal the tank up by adding the top. The top
does not get the same fillet treatment inside as there is no way to get ar
it once it's in place. Fortunately, the fuel pressure here is less than
the bottom or sides making it ideal as the last piece. Be sure to use
liberal amounts of epoxy on this joint, though. THe foam needs to be fully
sealed at the edges.
Now that that is all done, tapes need to be added along the outside of the
tank. Since the tapes won't take a sharp curve, you will need to sand the
edges to form a curve. Then, the same procedure is used with thte 2" and
3" tapes as with the inside. Be sure to add peel ply.
BTW, the reason for the peel ply (most amazing stuff) is two fold. First,
as you pull it off the surface, it leaves a rough surface behind due to
the weave of teh ply. This makes a good surface to lay up the next layer
on, such as reinforcement tapes. Second, much of the excess resign can be
forced out of the glass cloth and on top of the peel ply. This gets
stripped away after withthe ply. It took me a while to understand that the
peel ply will just peel right off the epoxy surface after it hardened. For
a neat light show, turn out the lights as you peel it away, the static
discharge creates a glowing blue line at teh edge as you peel it back. May
be interesting for the kids ;-)
Anyway, if you have any other questions, give me a shout.
Ken
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Todd Chisum wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Where can I find out more about constructing fiberglass fuel tanks? I have
> heard of them for years, and now that I am building a Cuby I have taken a
> new interest in them. I want to install two wing tanks. How is your
> Christavia set-up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd Chisum
> Tulsa, Oklahoma
> Wag Aero Super Sport project
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
Dan, my neighbor wouldn't have anything but a Model-A in his Piet. I would
never have any car engine in a plane I plan on flying. The choice is yours.
My suggestion is to use an aircraft engine. They're designed for the
purpose.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
I am building per 1933 plans and am
>trying to decide between a Ford model A and a
>Continental A-65. Any suggestions?Thanx.
>_danbadger
>PIETENPOLS FOR EVER!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank |
Tony Bingelis has a step by step method for
fabricating fiberglass tanks in one of his books.
Don't know which one off the top of my head, but they
are all worth having anyway.
Dave
--- Todd Chisum wrote:
> Ken,
>
> Where can I find out more about constructing
> fiberglass fuel tanks? I have
> heard of them for years, and now that I am building
> a Cuby I have taken a
> new interest in them. I want to install two wing
> tanks. How is your
> Christavia set-up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd Chisum
> Tulsa, Oklahoma
> Wag Aero Super Sport project
>
>
> Get Your Private, Free Email at
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
How many gallons are you looking to have in your
center section fiberglass tanks?
> I also have the tank in the
> center wing. No weight shift
> for me. Since there is no trim system I would stick
> with a center tank.
> Actually I'd put in a trim system.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
> --
>
> >On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone weighed
> their completed wing
> tank?
> > I am interested in knowing the weight difference
> between an aluminum tank
> >and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but have
> been thinking that I
> >would like to try and end up with an aluminum one.
> It would be easier for
> me
> >to get set up to build it using glass...but I am
> guessing I'd probably wind
> >up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of
> effort into keeping
> everything
> >as light as possible within reason. I will do what
> it takes to get
> aluminum
> >if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > Terry B
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: OFFLINE:RE: fuel tank |
>Tony Bingelis has a step by step method for
>fabricating fiberglass tanks in one of his books.
>Don't know which one off the top of my head, but they
>are all worth having anyway.
>
>Dave
>
Dave- A big Amen to that statement above. His books can
answer 98% of all of our questions.
Ref: fuel tank- I put my alum. tank behind the firewall and made the
center section a baggage area with a large aluminum cover hinged w/
piano hinge at the front spar and latched at the back in two spots.
It's nice not to have to get a ladder to fuel or haul 5 gal. cans up
there. I made a poster board mock up of a tank that suited my needs
and had an experienced alum. welder make it up with fill and drain fittings.
Mike C.
Tony Bingelis has a step by step method for
fabricating fiberglass tanks in one of his books.
Don't know which one off the top of my head, but they
are all worth having anyway.
Dave
Dave- A big Amen to that statement above. His books can
answer 98% of all of our questions.
Ref: fuel tank- I put my alum. tank behind the firewall and made
the
center section a baggage area with a large aluminum cover hinged w/
piano hinge at the front spar and latched at the back in two spots.
It's nice not to have to get a ladder to fuel or haul 5 gal. cans
up
there. I made a poster board mock up of a tank that suited my
needs
and had an experienced alum. welder make it up with fill and drain
fittings.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Hey, I own a Tailwind!!!!!!!1
N3316
JimV.
--- Randy Gaskins wrote:
> Please sign me up also.
>
> Randy Gaskins randy(at)icomnet.com
>
> May you be blessed with a tailwind!
>
> TXTdragger(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > sign me up too.
> >
> > John Davis txtdragger(at)aol.com
> > Houston, TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim VanDervort <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Who says static conductivity must be metallic??
Won't a balloon hang on wallpaper??
JimV.
--- Ken Beanlands wrote:
> Nonsense.
>
> Fiberglass tanks, and rubber fuel bladders are
> employed on numerous
> commercial and kitplane alike. While not as good at
> disipating static,
> the problem is easy to control by electrically
> bonding the tank. Most of
> the tanks use some sort of metalic filler neck. By
> running a few thin
> aluminum straps over the tank and electrically
> bonding them to the filler
> neck and airframe, you can safely ground the plane,
> and the tank, at the
> pumps. The main thing is to prevent a sparc (Err,
> spark, I've been working
> on Sun systems too long) between the nozzel and the
> filler neck. With a
> Piet, the same consideration must be taken, even
> with an aluminum tank.
> The tank is sitting within an wooden structure and
> is generally
> electrically isolated from the airframe by
> anti-chafing stuff like rubber
> strips. This will not allow the tank to discharge to
> ground until you give
> a it a path, like a steel fuel nozzel. Either way,
> you have to
> electrically bond the tank to the structure.
> Personally, I plan on adding
> some thin aluminum tabs to the boot cowl that will
> be in contact with the
> tank to solve this problem. Little tufts of steel
> wool between the tank
> and boot cowl will also work.
>
> Aluminum tanks, on the other hand , have a nasty
> tendancy of developing
> fatigue cracking that is not a problem with
> fiberglass. So far, I seen a
> number of planes that have developed leaks in thier
> aluminum tanks. The
> Citabria I was flying this spring ended up with 2
> leaks and the PA-18 was
> also leaking before it crashed. A friend of ours
> replaced his leaking
> aluminum tanks in his 172 with STC'd fiberglass ones
> and had never had a
> problem. If you have a nose mounted or even center
> section tank, the leak
> will end up filling your cockpit with fuel. If this
> happens in flight.....
>
> Ken.
>
> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
>
> > One other consideration when trying to decide
> between fiberglass and
> > metal (either aluminum or ternplate) - Fiberglass
> tanks offer no good
> > way to dissipate a static electrical charge. When
> refueling, the flow
> > of gasoline from a nozzle can build up a
> substantial charge (thousands
> > of volts) in a hurry. With a metal tank grounded
> to the structure and
> > through the static clip at the fuel pump to earth
> ground, the charge can
> > be safely dissipated. With a fiberglass tank, the
> tank can retain the
> > charge for mi
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:16 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: Re: fuel tank
> > >
> > > We compared teh weights of my fiberglass
> Christavia fuel tank to an
> > > aluminum one. The weight difference was
> neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
> > > board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was
> very easy to do and has the
> > > advantages of being double walled, fatigue
> resistant and insulated
> > > (prevents some condensation).
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone
> weighed their completed wing tank?
> > > > I am interested in knowing the weight
> difference between an aluminum tank
> > > > and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but
> have been thinking that I
> > > > would like to try and end up with an aluminum
> one. It would be easier for me
> > > > to get set up to build it using glass...but I
> am guessing I'd probably wind
> > > > up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of
> effort into keeping everything
> > > > as light as possible within reason. I will do
> what it takes to get aluminum
> > > > if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > > > Terry B
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Umm.. That's actually showing how static electricoty is NOT being
cunducted. Take the balloon off the wall and try the same experiment with
a metalic door knob, the baloon will not stick. In fact, you may actually
see a spark as it discharges. Why? Simple. The balloon has a negative (or
possitive) charge until it comes in contact with the wall. THe charge
(actually, spare electrons) is then cunducted through the metal knob
giving both mediums the same charge. No charge, no ttraction, balloon
doesn't stick to the knob. With the walpaper wall, there is no
conductivity. Hence, the opposite charges in the two mediums are attracted
to each other and never discharge to ground. The discharge to is the real
problem. When the charged balloon touches the metal knob, the electrons
flow across. If the charge is severe enough, the electrons will bridge the
gap before they actually touch causing a spark.
Now, consider that the fiberglass tank is the balloon. Filling it with
feul is akin to rubbing the balloon on your hair. The tank is in contact
with the rubber and wood of the fuselage and is statically attracted, but
not grounded. Now, a grounded fuel line touches the filler neck, like the
balloon touching the knob. Discharge, spark, BANG!
Ken
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jim VanDervort wrote:
> Who says static conductivity must be metallic??
> Won't a balloon hang on wallpaper??
>
> JimV.
>
>
>
> --- Ken Beanlands wrote:
> > Nonsense.
> >
> > Fiberglass tanks, and rubber fuel bladders are
> > employed on numerous
> > commercial and kitplane alike. While not as good at
> > disipating static,
> > the problem is easy to control by electrically
> > bonding the tank. Most of
> > the tanks use some sort of metalic filler neck. By
> > running a few thin
> > aluminum straps over the tank and electrically
> > bonding them to the filler
> > neck and airframe, you can safely ground the plane,
> > and the tank, at the
> > pumps. The main thing is to prevent a sparc (Err,
> > spark, I've been working
> > on Sun systems too long) between the nozzel and the
> > filler neck. With a
> > Piet, the same consideration must be taken, even
> > with an aluminum tank.
> > The tank is sitting within an wooden structure and
> > is generally
> > electrically isolated from the airframe by
> > anti-chafing stuff like rubber
> > strips. This will not allow the tank to discharge to
> > ground until you give
> > a it a path, like a steel fuel nozzel. Either way,
> > you have to
> > electrically bond the tank to the structure.
> > Personally, I plan on adding
> > some thin aluminum tabs to the boot cowl that will
> > be in contact with the
> > tank to solve this problem. Little tufts of steel
> > wool between the tank
> > and boot cowl will also work.
> >
> > Aluminum tanks, on the other hand , have a nasty
> > tendancy of developing
> > fatigue cracking that is not a problem with
> > fiberglass. So far, I seen a
> > number of planes that have developed leaks in thier
> > aluminum tanks. The
> > Citabria I was flying this spring ended up with 2
> > leaks and the PA-18 was
> > also leaking before it crashed. A friend of ours
> > replaced his leaking
> > aluminum tanks in his 172 with STC'd fiberglass ones
> > and had never had a
> > problem. If you have a nose mounted or even center
> > section tank, the leak
> > will end up filling your cockpit with fuel. If this
> > happens in flight.....
> >
> > Ken.
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
> >
> > > One other consideration when trying to decide
> > between fiberglass and
> > > metal (either aluminum or ternplate) - Fiberglass
> > tanks offer no good
> > > way to dissipate a static electrical charge. When
> > refueling, the flow
> > > of gasoline from a nozzle can build up a
> > substantial charge (thousands
> > > of volts) in a hurry. With a metal tank grounded
> > to the structure and
> > > through the static clip at the fuel pump to earth
> > ground, the charge can
> > > be safely dissipated. With a fiberglass tank, the
> > tank can retain the
> > > charge for mi
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:16 PM
> > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > Subject: Re: fuel tank
> > > >
> > > > We compared teh weights of my fiberglass
> > Christavia fuel tank to an
> > > > aluminum one. The weight difference was
> > neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
> > > > board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was
> > very easy to do and has the
> > > > advantages of being double walled, fatigue
> > resistant and insulated
> > > > (prevents some condensation).
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone
> > weighed their completed wing tank?
> > > > > I am interested in knowing the weight
> > difference between an aluminum tank
> > > > > and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but
> > have been thinking that I
> > > > > would like to try and end up with an aluminum
> > one. It would be easier for me
> > > > > to get set up to build it using glass...but I
> > am guessing I'd probably wind
> > > > > up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of
> > effort into keeping everything
> > > > > as light as possible within reason. I will do
> > what it takes to get aluminum
> > > > > if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > > > > Terry B
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 7:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank
>
>Passaic metal prod
>5 Central Ave
>Clifton, NJ 07011
>(973) 546-9000
> They had .015" thk. 36" x 50 ft. I think about $100.00. I didn't ask
>about selling partial roll. This is probably 3 times what you need. If
>they don't split the roll , maybe we can buy it and pass it around.
>walt.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Camera Man
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 3:19 PM
>Subject: Re: fuel tank
>
>
>>Hello
>>What is your source for Ternplate? I haven't been able to find any.
>>Mike Madrid
>>
>>>Gary,
>>>I'm putting in both the center sect. tank and a nose tank. I may be
nuts,
>>but I'm making them out of Ternplate. Didn't even know what that was BP (
>>before Piet). Located some in NJ by me. But yet to get into that.
>>>walt
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Ken Beanlsnds: You stated that"peel ply is the solution for excess
resin". Just exactly what does it do? How does it work? Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS |
Bart,
The only reason to put these strips on , is so that the fabric won't have
bumps in it at the corner edges. So like at the rear at the longerons
corners, if you pulled fabric around the edges, you would see the gussets
sticking out thru the fabric. I put strips on sides and bottom then when
dry, run a plane or sandpaper along the edge to make it slightly rounded.
Where the thick ones in front meet the thin ones, I ran the thick past the
curve at the seat, then planed ( no pun) the thick into the thin.
Then the one in front vertical at the firewall ,1/4x1" I think, will shape
the fabric, and be a place to fasten cowling etc.
My old mentor taught me to get a piece of fabric, or sheet, or handkerchief,
and bend it by hand over the area. This way it makes it real easy to picture
what you have to do to the wood.
walt.
-----Original Message-----
From: Conrad, Bart D
Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS
>Need help clarifying how the fuselage filler strips are installed. Drawing
no. 1 of the 1933 plans are not clear to me. At the forward fuselage (upper
and lower) the drawing says to install 1/2 X 1/4 filler strips between
fittings and gusset plates. At the aft fuselage (lower) the drawing says to
install 1/4 X 1/8 filler strips. Q: How does one transition between the two
different size filler strips? How far back does the 1/4 thick by 1/2 wide
filler strips go? How do they transition into the 1/8 tBart D Conrad
>Boeing Field Service
>DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
>Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
>Fax: 713-640-5891
>Pager: 713-318-1625
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Yep, that's the scenario.
I know a lot of airplanes are flying with fiberglass fuel tanks, I just wanted
people to realize there are other things to consider when deciding what material
to use when building a fuel tank. Most people don't automatically think about
static discharge when thinking about fueling. Fiberglass is OK if properly
grounded, but that is something that must be accomodated during construction.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 3:43 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: fuel tank
>
> Umm.. That's actually showing how static electricoty is NOT being
> cunducted. Take the balloon off the wall and try the same experiment with
> a metalic door knob, the baloon will not stick. In fact, you may actually
> see a spark as it discharges. Why? Simple. The balloon has a negative (or
> possitive) charge until it comes in contact with the wall. THe charge
> (actually, spare electrons) is then cunducted through the metal knob
> giving both mediums the same charge. No charge, no ttraction, balloon
> doesn't stick to the knob. With the walpaper wall, there is no
> conductivity. Hence, the opposite charges in the two mediums are attracted
> to each other and never discharge to ground. The discharge to is the real
> problem. When the charged balloon touches the metal knob, the electrons
> flow across. If the charge is severe enough, the electrons will bridge the
> gap before they actually touch causing a spark.
>
> Now, consider that the fiberglass tank is the balloon. Filling it with
> feul is akin to rubbing the balloon on your hair. The tank is in contact
> with the rubber and wood of the fuselage and is statically attracted, but
> not grounded. Now, a grounded fuel line touches the filler neck, like the
> balloon touching the knob. Discharge, spark, BANG!
>
> Ken
>
> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jim VanDervort wrote:
>
> > Who says static conductivity must be metallic??
> > Won't a balloon hang on wallpaper??
> >
> > JimV.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Ken Beanlands wrote:
> > > Nonsense.
> > >
> > > Fiberglass tanks, and rubber fuel bladders are
> > > employed on numerous
> > > commercial and kitplane alike. While not as good at
> > > disipating static,
> > > the problem is easy to control by electrically
> > > bonding the tank. Most of
> > > the tanks use some sort of metalic filler neck. By
> > > running a few thin
> > > aluminum straps over the tank and electrically
> > > bonding them to the filler
> > > neck and airframe, you can safely ground the plane,
> > > and the tank, at the
> > > pumps. The main thing is to prevent a sparc (Err,
> > > spark, I've been working
> > > on Sun systems too long) between the nozzel and the
> > > filler neck. With a
> > > Piet, the same consideration must be taken, even
> > > with an aluminum tank.
> > > The tank is sitting within an wooden structure and
> > > is generally
> > > electrically isolated from the airframe by
> > > anti-chafing stuff like rubber
> > > strips. This will not allow the tank to discharge to
> > > ground until you give
> > > a it a path, like a steel fuel nozzel. Either way,
> > > you have to
> > > electrically bond the tank to the structure.
> > > Personally, I plan on adding
> > > some thin aluminum tabs to the boot cowl that will
> > > be in contact with the
> > > tank to solve this problem. Little tufts of steel
> > > wool between the tank
> > > and boot cowl will also work.
> > >
> > > Aluminum tanks, on the other hand , have a nasty
> > > tendancy of developing
> > > fatigue cracking that is not a problem with
> > > fiberglass. So far, I seen a
> > > number of planes that have developed leaks in thier
> > > aluminum tanks. The
> > > Citabria I was flying this spring ended up with 2
> > > leaks and the PA-18 was
> > > also leaking before it crashed. A friend of ours>
> > > replaced his leaking
> > > aluminum tanks in his 172 with STC'd fiberglass ones
> > > and had never had a
> > > problem. If you have a nose mounted or even center
> > > section tank, the leak
> > > will end up filling your cockpit with fuel. If this
> > > happens in flight.....
> > >
> > > Ken.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
> > >
> > > > One other consideration when trying to decide
> > > between fiberglass and
> > > > metal (either aluminum or ternplate) - Fiberglass
> > > tanks offer no good
> > > > way to dissipate a static electrical charge. When
> > > refueling, the flow
> > > > of gasoline from a nozzle can build up a
> > > substantial charge (thousands
> > > > of volts) in a hurry. With a metal tank grounded
> > > to the structure and
> > > > through the static clip at the fuel pump to earth
> > > ground, the charge can
> > > > be safely dissipated. With a fiberglass tank, the
> > > tank can retain the
> > > > charge for mi
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ken Beanlands [SMTP:kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:16 PM
> > > > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > > > Subject: Re: fuel tank
> > > > >
> > > > > We compared teh weights of my fiberglass
> > > Christavia fuel tank to an
> > > > > aluminum one. The weight difference was
> > > neglidgable. I used a 1/4" foam
> > > > > board/fiberglass sandwich construction. It was
> > > very easy to do and has the
> > > > > advantages of being double walled, fatigue
> > > resistant and insulated
> > > > > (prevents some condensation).
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 BARNSTMR(at)aol.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On the subject of fuel tanks....Has anyone
> > > weighed their completed wing tank?
> > > > > > I am interested in knowing the weight
> > > difference between an aluminum tank
> > > > > > and a fiberglass one. I am not there yet, but
> > > have been thinking that I
> > > > > > would like to try and end up with an aluminum
> > > one. It would be easier for me
> > > > > > to get set up to build it using glass...but I
> > > am guessing I'd probably wind
> > > > > > up with a heavier part. I am putting a lot of
> > > effort into keeping everything
> > > > > > as light as possible within reason. I will do
> > > what it takes to get aluminum
> > > > > > if it means I'd save significant weight.
> > > > > > Terry B
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > > > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > > > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > > > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I think my later post explained that. It's applied to the glass
cloth/resign laminate while the laminate is still wet. It's applied in the
same way you would apply the glass cloth. After teh epoxy hardens, the
peel ply is peeled off. The puropose is two fold. The weave of the fabric
leaves an impression in the surface. This impression leaves teh surface
rough enough to apply a second laminate right over it. Secondly, the
excess resign ends up being forced up on top of the peel ply. When you
peel it off, off comes the excess. It doesn't get all the excess, but a
good percentage of it.
Ken
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Leon Stefan wrote:
> Ken Beanlsnds: You stated that"peel ply is the solution for excess
> resin". Just exactly what does it do? How does it work? Leon S.
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS |
Thanks for the info. I suspected something like that but wanted a second opinion.
Thanks again, Bart
> ----------
> From: walter evans[SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:12 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS
>
> Bart,
> The only reason to put these strips on , is so that the fabric won't have
> bumps in it at the corner edges. So like at the rear at the longerons
> corners, if you pulled fabric around the edges, you would see the gussets
> sticking out thru the fabric. I put strips on sides and bottom then when
> dry, run a plane or sandpaper along the edge to make it slightly rounded.
> Where the thick ones in front meet the thin ones, I ran the thick past the
> curve at the seat, then planed ( no pun) the thick into the thin.
> Then the one in front vertical at the firewall ,1/4x1" I think, will shape
> the fabric, and be a place to fasten cowling etc.
> My old mentor taught me to get a piece of fabric, or sheet, or handkerchief,
> and bend it by hand over the area. This way it makes it real easy to picture
> what you have to do to the wood.
> walt.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conrad, Bart D
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 12:06 PM
> Subject: FUSELAGE - FILLER STRIPS
>
>
> >Need help clarifying how the fuselage filler strips are installed. Drawing
> no. 1 of the 1933 plans are not clear to me. At the forward fuselage (upper
> and lower) the drawing says to install 1/2 X 1/4 filler strips between
> fittings and gusset plates. At the aft fuselage (lower) the drawing says to
> install 1/4 X 1/8 filler strips. Q: How does one transition between the two
> different size filler strips? How far back does the 1/4 thick by 1/2 wide
> filler strips go? How do they transition into the 1/8 tBart D Conrad
> >Boeing Field Service
> >DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
> >Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
> >Fax: 713-640-5891
> >Pager: 713-318-1625
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tank weight |
> They kept quoting Burt Rutan about getting
>carried away with resin. He says most people tend to add at least 30%
>more extra weight without realising it. Leon S.
>
>
Burt is probably right. I learned this when I built my canoe
(Prospector cedar strip). If you put on way too much resin the
glass will even float on it then you have a real mess. Put on
a bunch less than you think you need and then squeegee off the
excess that you just put on.
Dave
KB2YWT (not a DXer)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | if you had to do it over |
Really getting into the wings and wondering,,,from the guys who are
already flying. The center section cutout......should I ?
It's hard to picture a Piet( cause I've never seen one for real). If I
leave the wing center complete, will it be hard to get into? If do the
cut out will the visibility be worth it? Can't decide.
If you flyers had to do it over again,,,with all you've seen,,,,how
would you build the center section " on your next one"?
walt
Really getting into the wings and
wondering,,,from the guys who are already flying. The center
section
cutout......should I ?
It's hard to picture a Piet( cause
I've never
seen one for real). If I leave the wing center complete, will it
be hard
to get into? If do the cut out will the visibility be worth
it?
Can't decide.
If you flyers had to do it over
again,,,with all
you've seen,,,,how would you build the center section on your
next
one?
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
attach a triangular piece of steel to the fuel cap with braided wire, make
sure the length is long enough to sit on the bottom of the tank as you
refuel, attach grounding wire to fuel cap instead of airframe. Plastic
airplanes have used this method for years with no problems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
next time you are over at Benton i will show you. Give a call when your
close by
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
I took a look at the trim tab. It is simply a "flap" about 14" wide and 4"
deep that is hinged at the bottom with a piano hinge. It is located at the
inner rear of the right elevator (as though it were just a piece cut out of
the elevator). It has a solid wire inside a flexible cable that runs to the
cockpit and is hooked to a lever. Move the lever and the trim tab goes up
or down. The lever has a friction lock that is simply a large nut that you
tighten to make sure it stays where you want.
I hope this helps.
Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: CG and Trim
>
>
> > I would like some kind of drawing or plans on your trim tab please!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > writes:
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > One of the things that my PartPiet has is a trim tab. Around the
> > > patch I
> > > never use it. But, when on a long (anything over 10 miles...) cross
> > > country
> > > it is essential when you want to TRY to refold that chart, take a
> > > picture,
> > > pick your nose, etc.
> > >
> > > Ted B
> > > Naples, FL/GN-1
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: CG and Trim
> > >
> > >
> > > > Your mention of "holding the stick forward" reminds me of a
> > > question that
> > > I was
> > > > going to ask. There doesn't seem to be any mention anywhere of
> > > trim tabs
> > > > other than a fixed one on the rudder of some Piets. Is this
> > > because
> > > this is
> > > > not a cross country airplane? ( That can obviously be discounted
> > > by the
> > > folks
> > > > who flew Piets ot Oshkosh and Brodhead this year.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bell
> > > > Columbia, SC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 08:54:52 AM
> > > > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > > > cc:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: CG
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike C wrote;
> > > > >
> > > > > <<-Put in a nose take of 17 gals. >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > > > >
> > > > > Move the wing?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> > > > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > > > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75" aft of the LE of the
> > > > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > > > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > > > low on fuel though.
> > > >
> > > > Mike C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike C wrote;
> > > >
> > > > -Put in a nose take of 17 gals.
> > > >
> > > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > > >
> > > > Move the wing?
> > > >
> > > > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail
> > > heavy.
> > > > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > > > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75 aft of the LE of the
> > > > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > > > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > > > low on fuel though.
> > > >
> > > > Mike C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just starting |
but they were designed in the 30's and they cant
change them because of liability. The lawyer would
say,"if you made a change that must mean they had a
problem before"
--- Copinfo wrote:
>
> Dan, my neighbor wouldn't have anything but a
> Model-A in his Piet. I would
> never have any car engine in a plane I plan on
> flying. The choice is yours.
> My suggestion is to use an aircraft engine. They're
> designed for the
> purpose.
> Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
> Tim Cunningham
> Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
> I am building per 1933 plans and am
> >trying to decide between a Ford model A and a
> >Continental A-65. Any suggestions?Thanx.
> >_danbadger
> >PIETENPOLS FOR EVER!!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Walt wrote:
<
would you build the center section " on your next one"?>>
With the center section access for sure.Rather than a cut out I have a
flop. In either case, it sure is eaiser getting in & out.
Mike B N687MB ( Mr Sam )
Walt wrote:
If you flyers had to do it
over
again,,,with all you've seen,,,,how would you build the center section
on
your next one?
With the center section access for sure.Rather than a cut out
I have
a flop. In either case, it sure is eaiser getting in out.
Mike B N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Shad wrote:
Go with the 0-200. I fly with one, no problems.
FYI, an 0-200 with starter & altenator weighs less than a Ford engine
Mike B Piet N687 MB ( Mr Sam )
Shad wrote:
would it be worth rebuilding the0-200
or better
to get a rebuilt cont-75 or 85?
Go with the 0-200. I fly with one, no
problems.
FYI, an 0-200 with starter altenator
weighs less
than a Ford engine
Mike B Piet N687 MB ( Mr Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
If any one is interested here is a project for sale,
Pietenpol Project =96 fuselage, wing (one piece), empennage, steel tu=
be gear,
cabanes, lift struts, cables etc. Assembled/rigged. Ready for engine=
choice/mount and cover. Meticulous craftsmanship to original plans/sp=
ecs
except cabanes lengthened for easier entry. Model A engine with alum.=
head
and prop available. Asking 7,500.00, but glad to consider reasonable=
counteroffers. Please contact Shaun at (717) 938-3656 or Shauns@hotm=
ail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe zw <joezw(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
good morning.
i might be interisted but need a little more info .
motor model a how old and how many forced landings?
age
damage since new.
hr's
and any other info you can get me.
thanks
Joe Zweck
33811 co 24 blvd.
Cannon Falls mn 55009
>From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 02:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Hello Group,
>My good friend (and Pietenpol Partner) has lost his medical, and hasn't
>been
>able to fly much this summer, and decided he would like to try to sell his
>plane. It was built 'To the Plans'. To avoid liability, he says he must
>surrender the data plate to the FAA, and sell it as a project. He wants
>$9000 USD for the project. His name is Doug Bryant, from Wichita KS, and
>his
>phone number is 733-2324.
>
>Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com |
Does this seem to be the only trim that is necessary for a Piet? Rudder and
ailerons don't need in flight adjustment for hands off?
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/27/99 09:44:27 PM
Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
cc:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CG and Trim
I took a look at the trim tab. It is simply a "flap" about 14" wide and 4"
deep that is hinged at the bottom with a piano hinge. It is located at the
inner rear of the right elevator (as though it were just a piece cut out of
the elevator). It has a solid wire inside a flexible cable that runs to the
cockpit and is hooked to a lever. Move the lever and the trim tab goes up
or down. The lever has a friction lock that is simply a large nut that you
tighten to make sure it stays where you want.
I hope this helps.
Ted
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 1999 1:18 PM
> Subject: Re: CG and Trim
>
>
> > I would like some kind of drawing or plans on your trim tab please!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > writes:
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > One of the things that my PartPiet has is a trim tab. Around the
> > > patch I
> > > never use it. But, when on a long (anything over 10 miles...) cross
> > > country
> > > it is essential when you want to TRY to refold that chart, take a
> > > picture,
> > > pick your nose, etc.
> > >
> > > Ted B
> > > Naples, FL/GN-1
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com>
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: CG and Trim
> > >
> > >
> > > > Your mention of "holding the stick forward" reminds me of a
> > > question that
> > > I was
> > > > going to ask. There doesn't seem to be any mention anywhere of
> > > trim tabs
> > > > other than a fixed one on the rudder of some Piets. Is this
> > > because
> > > this is
> > > > not a cross country airplane? ( That can obviously be discounted
> > > by the
> > > folks
> > > > who flew Piets ot Oshkosh and Brodhead this year.)
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bell
> > > > Columbia, SC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/22/99 08:54:52 AM
> > > > Please respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNET
> > > > cc:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: CG
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike C wrote;
> > > > >
> > > > > <<-Put in a nose take of 17 gals. >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > > > >
> > > > > Move the wing?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail heavy.
> > > > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > > > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75" aft of the LE of the
> > > > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > > > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > > > low on fuel though.
> > > >
> > > > Mike C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike C wrote;
> > > >
> > > > -Put in a nose take of 17 gals.
> > > >
> > > > Hey Mike, any difference when only 5 gal remain.
> > > >
> > > > Move the wing?
> > > >
> > > > Mike B.-- You bet there is. She gets tail
> > > heavy.
> > > > Nothing dangerous as my most aft CG with 3 gals.
> > > > fuel remaining still falls at 19.75 aft of the LE of the
> > > > wing. It's just annoying to hold forward stick.
> > > > Fortunately with the kind of flying I do I never get that
> > > > low on fuel though.
> > > >
> > > > Mike C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | unsubscribe / remove |
unsubscribe / remove
Thanks
--
TK Rice
sorefeet(at)digisys.net
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave
them."
George Mason, Patriot
Visit the SONS OF FREEDOM website at
http://www.digisys.net/users/sorefeet
To reduce "spam" there is an extra "dot" in my reply address.
Without prejudice per UCC 1-207
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
<>
First, the ailerons don't require trim, but SEAL THE GAPS
I installed a rudder trim to compensate for the 0-200 torque. At full
power I need a good degree of right rudder. At cruise. 2250 rpm, the
torque is no factor.
I do not have elevator trim as such, but I do have a slotted plate in
which a pin on the stick runs in, the pin is threaded to which is afixed
a nylon friction nut. By taking up on the nut, the stick is held in a
fixed posistion ( fore & aft only ) so my hands are free for chart
folding etc. The slotted plate also serves as an elevator stop.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
Does this seem to be the only trim
that is
necessary for a Piet? Rudder andailerons don't need in
flight
adjustment for hands off?Mike Bell
First, the ailerons don't require trim, but
SEAL THE GAPS
I installed a rudder trim to compensate for
the 0-200
torque. At full power I need a good degree of right rudder. At cruise.
2250 rpm,
the torque is no factor.
I do not have elevator trim as such, but I do
have a
slotted plate in which a pin on the stick runs in, the pin is threaded
to which
is afixed a nylon friction nut. By taking up on the nut, the stick is
held in a
fixed posistion ( fore aft only ) so my hands are free for chart
folding
etc. The slotted plate also serves as an elevator stop.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: Instructor in a Piet (low and slow)... |
How about:
"I will charge "$ ???.??" the hour of the ground school teaching only (has
to be the price of the complete course), and all the flying training (40
hours) in your experimental aircraft will be for free..."
Has to be perfectly stated in the contract :-)
Also you can sell a T shirt for $ 70.00 (for example) and get a FREE 1/2
hour ride.... in the experimental aircraft :-)
Fair and legal for everybody.
Saludos
Gary Gower
>Sec. 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
>
> (a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
>certificate--
> (2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.
>
>1. NO EXCEPTIONS ON WHO
>
> First, the regulation says "No Person" which specifically means
> without exception regarding owner, operator, pilot in command,
> instructor pilot, etc ....
>
>2. AIRCRAFT OPERATION W/O EXCEPTION OF PURPOSE
>
> Second, the regulation states "an aircraft that has
> an experimental ceritificate" which specifically means any aircraft
> which has the certification under "experimental." Nothing is
> excluded concerning operations such as instruction.
>
>3. AIRCRAFT DOES THE CARRYING
>
> Third, the statement is "carrying persons or property for compensation..."
> It is not the people doing the carrying, but the aircraft. English
language
> construction can be confusing, but people operate, aircraft carry...
>
>4. COMPENSATION OR HIRE - EXCLUDES NOTHING
>
> Forth, the "for compensation or hire" does not exclude who or what
> or how the compensation is obtained. If the compensation is dependent
> on aircraft operation, the regulation does not exclude any operations
> for compensation purposes. It is without exception regardless of
> operation types or purpose.
>
>I hope this helps. The ultimate test is at an NTSB hearing with the FAA
>working towards a suspension ruling.
>
>David Scott 13 Sep 99 15:20
>
>P.S. Incidently, in response to commercial licensing, all of this comes from
>my understandings while gaining my certificate from the FAA FSDO office.
>You might notice that for the "carrying persons or property for
compensation or hire" applies
>to standard certificated aircraft requirements also. There is to be a 100hr
>inspection met for any carrying of persons or property for hire. So, the
age old
>question popped for the instructor taking the oral exam is: Can an instructor
>charge for instruction in an aircraft which does not meet the 100hr inspection
>requirement?
>
>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Instructor in a Piet (low and slow)...
>> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>
>> David,
>>
>> I guess I don't see how 91.319 prohibits a flight instructor from being
>> paid for his services in a Pietenpol. The "for compensation or hire" refers
>> to providing transportation of passengers, or property. This was dealt with
>> in all the Commercial Pilot Certificatef we had to learn, "holding yourself
>> out for hire" and all that. An instrucional flight doesn't have this as it's
>> purpose. A CFI isn't being paid to be PIC, just to instruct.
>>
>> I don't see the hard facts in 91.319 for preventing paid instruction in an
>> experimental. I do agree however, it's very wise to investigate for
>> yourself, things that you see on discussion groups.
>>
>> Now, as for Berea, isn't that the tarpits in southern California:-)
>>
>> Gary Meadows
>> Agreeing to Disagree:-)
>>
>
>--
>
>---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7
>
>/--------------------\ |~~\_____/~~\__ |
>|scott(at)haulpak.com | o' ~~\|~~~ |
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
--- Michael Brusilow
wrote:
> < necessary for a Piet? Rudder and
> ailerons don't need in flight adjustment for hands
> off?
>
> Mike Bell>>
>
> First, the ailerons don't require trim, but SEAL THE
> GAPS
>
> I installed a rudder trim to compensate for the
> 0-200 torque. At full power I need a good degree of
> right rudder. At cruise. 2250 rpm, the torque is no
> factor.
>
> I do not have elevator trim as such, but I do have a
> slotted plate in which a pin on the stick runs in,
> the pin is threaded to which is afixed a nylon
> friction nut. By taking up on the nut, the stick is
> held in a fixed posistion ( fore & aft only ) so my
> hands are free for chart folding etc. The slotted
> plate also serves as an elevator stop.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
>
> mike
Iwould be interested in hearing about that in more
detail. or better to see a picture or diagram.
del
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
--- Michael Brusilow
wrote:
> < necessary for a Piet? Rudder and
> ailerons don't need in flight adjustment for hands
> off?
>
> Mike Bell>>
>
> First, the ailerons don't require trim, but SEAL THE
> GAPS
>
> I installed a rudder trim to compensate for the
> 0-200 torque. At full power I need a good degree of
> right rudder. At cruise. 2250 rpm, the torque is no
> factor.
>
> I do not have elevator trim as such, but I do have a
> slotted plate in which a pin on the stick runs in,
> the pin is threaded to which is afixed a nylon
> friction nut. By taking up on the nut, the stick is
> held in a fixed posistion ( fore & aft only ) so my
> hands are free for chart folding etc. The slotted
> plate also serves as an elevator stop.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
>
> mike
Iwould be interested in hearing about that in more
detail. or better to see a picture or diagram.
del
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
>Everybody likes Cubs...they're just so damned CUTE. Everybody likes
>Champs...they're so damned CUTE.
>
>I started out in a J3, and UPGRADED to a 7AC. Liked 'em both! Still do.
>Airplanes are a lot like women...they all look different, sometimes you want
>'em all, you usually can't afford even one, but, boy, are they nice to have
>around.
>
>I had a '56 Crown Vic, a '57 Bel Air and a '68 Javelin. Wish I still had
>them as well as everything else nice I've let slip away. Did hold on to my
>woman, though.
>
>Thoughts of an O.F.
>
>
Well you decided, like most of us, to "keep" the most expensive one :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
Is Doug building another Piet this winter? That way if he gets his medical
back he will have something to fly?
If anyone wants to look at Doug's Piet here are some pictures of it. It was
a very nice Piet.
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image4.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image2.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image5.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image3.jpg
Greg Yotz
90% Done, 90% To go....
>>Hello Group,
>>My good friend (and Pietenpol Partner) has lost his medical, and hasn't
>>been
>>able to fly much this summer, and decided he would like to try to sell his
>>plane. It was built 'To the Plans'. To avoid liability, he says he must
>>surrender the data plate to the FAA, and sell it as a project. He wants
>>$9000 USD for the project. His name is Doug Bryant, from Wichita KS, and
>>his
>>phone number is 733-2324.
>>
>>Chuck Gantzer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | rudder construction |
I have decided to build the fin and rudder first and
came up with a few questions.
First, I noticed that the "toungues" on the structural
members are of different widths. Wouldn't this
require that the thicker member be sanded or planed
down to the thickness of another member where they
meet at a joint? This would also allow the gusset
to lay flat on both surfaces to get 100% facial
contact.
Second, I noticed the hinges, as per the plans,
require welding. Wouldn't it be better to use a "U"
shaped bracket the same length as the one shown. The
mating bracket would also be "U" shaped but slightly
shorter to allow it to slip inside the first bracket.
You would then insert a hinge pin through all four
hinge pin holes. This way you wouldn't have to weld
them and they should be at least as strong.
What do you guys think?
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: rudder construction |
Yep and Yep.
On my rudder I shimmed the thinner "tounge" with a 1/16" piece of plywood
and my hinges are in fact made from 1-1/4" sqare tubing, effectively
doubling the hinge points.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> william hutson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:45 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: rudder construction
>
>
> I have decided to build the fin and rudder first and
> came up with a few questions.
> First, I noticed that the "toungues" on the structural
> members are of different widths. Wouldn't this
> require that the thicker member be sanded or planed
> down to the thickness of another member where they
> meet at a joint? This would also allow the gusset
> to lay flat on both surfaces to get 100% facial
> contact.
> Second, I noticed the hinges, as per the plans,
> require welding. Wouldn't it be better to use a "U"
> shaped bracket the same length as the one shown. The
> mating bracket would also be "U" shaped but slightly
> shorter to allow it to slip inside the first bracket.
> You would then insert a hinge pin through all four
> hinge pin holes. This way you wouldn't have to weld
> them and they should be at least as strong.
> What do you guys think?
>
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 10:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A
Hey, neat Piet. I'd buy it except for #1, I'd need someone to buy my GN-1
(has a good strong Cont. 65 )for about the same money, and #2, if the plate
wasn't surrendered (Hate red tape, but I understand where he's coming from).
Neat Pictures Greg! I expecially like the Blue GN-1 with the yellow
Bi-wings in the background!!
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Is Doug building another Piet this winter? That way if he gets his medical
>back he will have something to fly?
>If anyone wants to look at Doug's Piet here are some pictures of it. It
was
>a very nice Piet.
>
>http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image4.jpg
>http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image2.jpg
>http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image5.jpg
>http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image3.jpg
>
>Greg Yotz
>90% Done, 90% To go....
>
>
>>>Hello Group,
>>>My good friend (and Pietenpol Partner) has lost his medical, and hasn't
>>>been
>>>able to fly much this summer, and decided he would like to try to sell
his
>>>plane. It was built 'To the Plans'. To avoid liability, he says he must
>>>surrender the data plate to the FAA, and sell it as a project. He wants
>>>$9000 USD for the project. His name is Doug Bryant, from Wichita KS, and
>>>his
>>>phone number is 733-2324.
>>>
>>>Chuck Gantzer
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder construction |
Steve wrote:
Hi Steve! I am interested in your hinge design. Could u drop me some
drawings?? Or maybe a better (for my feeble mind) written explaination??
Thanks
Steve <(two of a kind)
> Yep and Yep.
>
> On my rudder I shimmed the thinner "tounge" with a 1/16" piece of
> plywood
> and my hinges are in fact made from 1-1/4" sqare tubing, effectively
> doubling the hinge points.
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> Of
> > william hutson
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:45 AM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: rudder construction
> >
> >
> > I have decided to build the fin and rudder first and
> > came up with a few questions.
> > First, I noticed that the "toungues" on the structural
> > members are of different widths. Wouldn't this
> > require that the thicker member be sanded or planed
> > down to the thickness of another member where they
> > meet at a joint? This would also allow the gusset
> > to lay flat on both surfaces to get 100% facial
> > contact.
> > Second, I noticed the hinges, as per the plans,
> > require welding. Wouldn't it be better to use a "U"
> > shaped bracket the same length as the one shown. The
> > mating bracket would also be "U" shaped but slightly
> > shorter to allow it to slip inside the first bracket.
> > You would then insert a hinge pin through all four
> > hinge pin holes. This way you wouldn't have to weld
> > them and they should be at least as strong.
> > What do you guys think?
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Not now I worked in Heshey between 1984 and 1988 and lived
down the road from Farmers Pride airport which was owned by
Senator Manbeck, the small country airport was a buzz of activety
with several clubs, Bill Shadler was a great aivation buff he taught
me to fly the champ and was rebuilding several planes at this time.
This was a great place to hang out, every one got along from millionair
to pauper and I have missed this place ever since I moved, I now
am located in north east Ar. and may have to move again shortly
to just just north of Little Rock due to my job.
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 11:22 PM
> Russell,
>
> Are located near Farmer's Pride?
>
> Craig
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I am building a GN-1 and the plans dont have a axel hub for me to build.
How can one of these lil critters be built. Has anyone got plans or
whatever.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Ive also seen aluminum tanks that were pop riveted
with joints sealed with epoxy that worked well.
russ
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 1:08 PM
> I think you are talking about Ted Davis.
> Mike Madrid
>
> >There is a guy named Ted in Brodhead with a ratty J-5
> >that welds them. He gave me some dual, but I can not
> >read his last name in my logbook. Anyways, if you see
> >a guy with a red&white J-5, ask him. I will ask a
> >couple of buddies if they know his last name &
> >address.
> > By the way, I am about to start a Air Camper per the
> >1933 plans. anyone got a spare set of fittings? Thanx!
> >_danbadger
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: if you had to do it over |
Yes, I would cut out the center wing more to make it easier to get in
and out of the cockpit. I'd raise the cabanes a few more inches too for
the poor passengers. Although I really enjoy watching folks try to get
in. One guy almost wrecked my plane before he just gave up.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
Really getting into the wings and wondering,,,from the guys who are
already flying. The center section cutout......should I ?
It's hard to picture a Piet( cause I've never seen one for real).
If I leave the wing center complete, will it be hard to get into? If do
the cut out will the visibility be worth it? Can't decide.
If you flyers had to do it over again,,,with all you've seen,,,,how
would you build the center section " on your next one"?
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: if you had to do it over |
Walter, with what I know now, and having gotten in and out of the
cockpit a few times (with the fabric off), I would look at an alternate
to the solid centre section. I may yet modify the back edge to at least
allow the centre piece aft of the rear spar to swing up. I also
increased the height of the cabanes and at 6 feet and 200 ponds it is
tight and awkward to get in and out. The modification will likely be a
winter's project. The alternate is to do the cut out that would help
visibility above, and maybe a bit ahead.
Hope this helps! I too have not flown in one or seen a Piet in the
flesh.
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 8:10 PM
Subject: if you had to do it over
Really getting into the wings and wondering,,,from the guys who are
already flying. The center section cutout......should I ?
It's hard to picture a Piet( cause I've never seen one for real). If
I leave the wing center complete, will it be hard to get into? If do
the cut out will the visibility be worth it? Can't decide.
If you flyers had to do it over again,,,with all you've seen,,,,how
would you build the center section " on your next one"?
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: if you had to do it over |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Tim,
If I had it to do over I would have made a one piece wing with no cut
out. Put an extra 3 inches on the vert. struts. I'm 5ft 7" 160 and don't
have a problem. Read somewhere that the cut out reduces lift
significantly??
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: if you had to do it over/ wing cut-out |
This is from my archive on this subject:
(my thanks to those who responded when I posed this question a while back=
)
>>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section o=
f
>>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?
>In the 8th issue of the BPAN, Vi Kapler wrote that BHP estimated a wing
cut-out
>to reduce lift by an amount equal to reducing wing span by 2 feet.
Instead, he
>recommended installing a hinged cut-out that could be replaced during
flight or
>raising the cabanes by 2 inches to ease entry for the
flexibility-challenged.
>On the other hand, I've not yet heard a negative comment about wing
cut-outs
>from a builder who has installed one.
>
Peter- I've got tons of faith in BHP's design and his comments recorded
over time, but
the wing cutout issue is one that is far overstated. Stearmans, Jennies=
,
etc. all had them
and not only does it make it easier to get it and out, you can see above
you and it helps
you clear turns. In my case I turned the center section into a baggage
area with a hinged
alum. cover with latches at the back. Frank P. did the same thing but he=
cannot reach inside
his due to no cutout or flop. I can stand up right in the pilots seat an=
d
lean forward to
rummage around in the center section. (also makes for great periodic
inspection of your
aileron cables and pulleys.) I'm not trying to be funny here but see th=
e
list below for
improving lift:
1) Whatever engine you choose make sure it's up to snuff. Don't hang a j=
unk
65 horse engine out there and complain when your rate of climb is po=
or.
2) Keep the plane light. Stay away from heavy finishing processes. Ligh=
t
fabric grade
will be easier to attatch and the weave fills with less coats. Dope
works wonderful- it's light,
and easy to repair.
3) WAX the wing. Really. I swear I gained 100 fpm after waxing my wing=
,
top and bottom.
Yes, you will have a stiff neck and sore arms.
4) Loose 20 pounds after the holidays. (something I need to do as well=
!)
5) Take off into the wind !
Worth every cent you paid for it,
Mike C.
I have two things I'd like to discuss. As I wrote previously, I have
the cutout in my wing and feel that it is absolutely necessary for acces=
s to
the cockpit and for visability. I have my radiator tucked under the For=
d
Escort; just think what the turbulence must be off the Model-A radiator
facing
the wind squarely in front of the center section of the wing. Just how
efficient can that center section be in the Model A versions? Cutting so=
me 3
or 3 =BD square feet out of the wing equals a lose of just that amount,
particularly on the trailing edge. Last evening as I was flying I also
found
out that my crash helmet sticks some 1 or 2 inches up into the cut out a=
rea.
For someone my height, 6'2", the cabane struts would have to be lengthen=
ed to
gain clearance. I can't image lowering the seat any because my legs are=
reasonably tight now. Of course, if I didn't use a cushion at all, I'd
be
1/2
" lower. When turning base on approach, I love being able to look under=
the
wing and over it at the same time. I feel the safety factor, alone is w=
orth
the lose of a few square feet of wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
Steve,
The definitive article on wheel hubs was written by Grant Maclaren. It
appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg. 36
The best article on the logic was written by Jim Loyd and appeared in
Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
None of us got anything on wheels with the plans. It used to be that
wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked, the wheels were set
aside and used on a homebuilt.
Lauren
mailsorter-102-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:22 -0500
________________________________________________________________________________
(via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury
MTS v1.44 (NDS))
I am building a GN-1 and the plans dont have a axel hub for me to build.
How can one of these lil critters be built. Has anyone got plans or
whatever.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick W. Hildebrand" |
Unsubscribe
What are you N2? Choose from 150 free e-mail addresses.
http://www.n2mail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve wrote:
Thanks for this information. Is there some way I could get this article??
Maybe borrow it from one here. Maybe you have a copy. If you or anyone
can please send me a copy of this article?
Steve
(Lauren Williams) writes:
> Steve,
>
> The definitive article on wheel hubs was written by Grant Maclaren.
> It
> appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg. 36
>
> The best article on the logic was written by Jim Loyd and appeared
> in
> Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
>
> None of us got anything on wheels with the plans. It used to be
> that
> wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked, the wheels were
> set
> aside and used on a homebuilt.
>
> Lauren
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
I think I have both of these articles in my Kitplanes
library. If you give me your mailing address, I can
copy it and send it to you.
Bill
--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> Thanks for this information. Is there some way I
> could get this article??
> Maybe borrow it from one here. Maybe you have a
> copy. If you or anyone
> can please send me a copy of this article?
>
> Steve
>
> LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net
> (Lauren Williams) writes:
> > Steve,
> >
> > The definitive article on wheel hubs was written
> by Grant Maclaren.
> > It
> > appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg.
> 36
> >
> > The best article on the logic was written by Jim
> Loyd and appeared
> > in
> > Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
> >
> > None of us got anything on wheels with the plans.
> It used to be
> > that
> > wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked,
> the wheels were
> > set
> > aside and used on a homebuilt.
> >
> > Lauren
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
In a message dated 9/28/99 10:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
gyachts(at)kans.com writes:
<< Is Doug building another Piet this winter? That way if he gets his medical
back he will have something to fly?
If anyone wants to look at Doug's Piet here are some pictures of it. It was
a very nice Piet.
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image4.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image2.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image5.jpg
http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image3.jpg
>>
Doug has began construction of an ultralite called the 'Zing'. He already
has all the ribs done !! It uses a 2 stroke Kawasaki engine. He is
continuing to try to get his medical back, but started this plane...just in
case. Just Gotta Fly !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve wrote:
Thank you so very much. My snail is;
Steve Williamson
114 Pleasant
Brandon, Ms 39042
I really appreciate it
Steve
writes:
> I think I have both of these articles in my Kitplanes
> library. If you give me your mailing address, I can
> copy it and send it to you.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > Steve wrote:
> > Thanks for this information. Is there some way I
> > could get this article??
> > Maybe borrow it from one here. Maybe you have a
> > copy. If you or anyone
> > can please send me a copy of this article?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net
> > (Lauren Williams) writes:
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > The definitive article on wheel hubs was written
> > by Grant Maclaren.
> > > It
> > > appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg.
> > 36
> > >
> > > The best article on the logic was written by Jim
> > Loyd and appeared
> > > in
> > > Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
> > >
> > > None of us got anything on wheels with the plans.
> > It used to be
> > > that
> > > wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked,
> > the wheels were
> > > set
> > > aside and used on a homebuilt.
> > >
> > > Lauren
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
Well for those of you who have followed my progress on AirCamper.org and
noticed no progress whatever since July, Im finally back into it. I've been
working on a website project for a year and a half, and the last 3 month
I've been putting in 6 hours AFTER my 8-9 hours at my 'day-job' working on
it (this project will replace my day job). I am finally done! So now I can
get back to building!! Anyone curious about what I've been working on, go to
www.aircamper.org. The java banner at the top is my project.
I've got some sawdust to make...
Richard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Del wrote:
> mike
Iwould be interested in hearing about that in more
detail. or better to see a picture or diagram.
del>
The elevator stop was designed by Ed Sampson. The diagram was published
in the BPA newsletter in the early 80's. I don't know if I still have
it, but I will dig around.
In brief. it was fabricated from 1/8 X 1.5 or 2 inch Al stock. A slot
was cut in the middle of the piece. A swivel bolt was placed thru the
torque tube just in front of the seat. A 1/4 bolt thru the stick rides
in the slot. A friction wing nut is placed on the bolt. As the stick is
moved fore & aft, the bolt rides in the slot. The length of the slot is
determined by the degree of up & down elevator travel.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
PS: Grant may be of some assistance in locating the newsletter.
Del wrote:
mikeIwould be interested in hearing
about that
in moredetail. or better to see a picture or
diagram.del
The elevator stop was designed by Ed Sampson.
The
diagram was published in the BPA newsletter in the early 80's. I don't
know if I
still have it, but I will dig around.
In brief. it was fabricated from 1/8 X 1.5 or
2 inch Al
stock. A slot was cut in the middle of the piece. A swivel bolt was
placed thru
the torque tube just in front of the seat. A 1/4 bolt thru the stick
rides in
the slot. A friction wing nut is placed on the bolt. As the stick is
moved fore
aft, the bolt rides in the slot. The length of the slot is
determined by
the degree of up down elevator travel.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
PS: Grant may be of some assistance in locating the
newsletter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
Steve,
I'll have it in the mail tomarrow.
Bill
--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> Thank you so very much. My snail is;
>
> Steve Williamson
> 114 Pleasant
> Brandon, Ms 39042
>
> I really appreciate it
> Steve
>
> hutson
> writes:
> > I think I have both of these articles in my
> Kitplanes
> > library. If you give me your mailing address, I
> can
> > copy it and send it to you.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > > Steve wrote:
> > > Thanks for this information. Is there some way I
> > > could get this article??
> > > Maybe borrow it from one here. Maybe you have a
> > > copy. If you or anyone
> > > can please send me a copy of this article?
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net
> > > (Lauren Williams) writes:
> > > > Steve,
> > > >
> > > > The definitive article on wheel hubs was
> written
> > > by Grant Maclaren.
> > > > It
> > > > appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes,
> pg.
> > > 36
> > > >
> > > > The best article on the logic was written by
> Jim
> > > Loyd and appeared
> > > > in
> > > > Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
> > > >
> > > > None of us got anything on wheels with the
> plans.
> > > It used to be
> > > > that
> > > > wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got
> wrecked,
> > > the wheels were
> > > > set
> > > > aside and used on a homebuilt.
> > > >
> > > > Lauren
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: back into it |
You mean your selling Beanie Baby's?
That was the banner at the top of your page.
I know it takes awhile to program the pages, I lkie your frames.
I spent the last 4 days doing the web pages for IHA-ORG and don't remember
just how many hours involved for a simple page with:
Guest Book
Links Pages so members can add Links, Companys, Others
Counters
Fill in form to send New Member Info to our Administrator
Chat Room for our Members
Working on auto database and member no issued to member,
Working on Classified Ads Section
Always something to do and I still have 5 other web sites to work on.
Finally got a credit card thing set up so some of my accounts can actually
pay me but all this is free to our group.
Keeps me out of trouble doing web pages.
Anybody need page work see me off line.
I'm retired, I work cheap.
Gordon
IHA#02
WebMaster
http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com> |
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 4:53 PM
> Well for those of you who have followed my progress on AirCamper.org and
> noticed no progress whatever since July, Im finally back into it. I've
been
> working on a website project for a year and a half, and the last 3 month
> I've been putting in 6 hours AFTER my 8-9 hours at my 'day-job' working on
> it (this project will replace my day job). I am finally done! So now I can
> get back to building!! Anyone curious about what I've been working on, go
to
> www.aircamper.org. The java banner at the top is my project.
>
> I've got some sawdust to make...
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I would be very interested in that article also. I'm
thinking I can use the front wheels,disc brakes, and
calipers from a four wheeler. a lot of them are 8
inch.
Im planning a trip to a motorcyle salvage co.
del magsam
950 n knowles ave.
new richmond wi 54017
be glad to send you postage.
--- Lauren Williams wrote:
> Steve,
>
> The definitive article on wheel hubs was written by
> Grant Maclaren. It
> appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg.
> 36
>
> The best article on the logic was written by Jim
> Loyd and appeared in
> Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
>
> None of us got anything on wheels with the plans.
> It used to be that
> wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked,
> the wheels were set
> aside and used on a homebuilt.
>
> Lauren
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:22 -0500
> From: vistin(at)juno.com
> Subject: Wheel hubs.
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
>
> I am building a GN-1 and the plans dont have a axel
> hub for me to build.
> How can one of these lil critters be built. Has
> anyone got plans or
> whatever.
>
> Steve
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse for
water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
walt
Just a strange question.....Does
anyone know of
anyone who can dowse for water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about
the
concept.
Thinking about dowsing and
Pietenpols.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
When I was a kid, growing up on a mountain top in north central washington
state, we had a 38 degree below zero Janruary. Our pipes, and the neighbor's
both froze up.
The local farmer came by and dowzed for the water pipe. (It seems we were
looking for an elbow joint.) He picked up an iron pipe about 6 ft
long,ballanced it in his hand, and began pacing across the area. The pipe
dropped at the front end.
He said here. We lit a fire on the spot for the rest of the day, and all
night. Next morning we dug. \
About 4 ft down was th pipe. Just where the farmer said .
>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: dowsing
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:54:41 -0400
>
>Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse for
>water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
>Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
>walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: back into it |
Hi Richard, Keep at it! How's your other new little project doing? Sleeping
through the nights yet?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta <rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 5:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: back into it
>Well for those of you who have followed my progress on AirCamper.org and
>noticed no progress whatever since July, Im finally back into it. I've been
>working on a website project for a year and a half, and the last 3 month
>I've been putting in 6 hours AFTER my 8-9 hours at my 'day-job' working on
>it (this project will replace my day job). I am finally done! So now I can
>get back to building!! Anyone curious about what I've been working on, go
to
>www.aircamper.org. The java banner at the top is my project.
>
>I've got some sawdust to make...
>Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Weikel <jandd(at)maverickbbs.com> |
Interesting question. I had a water well drilled 3 yrs ago and the
driller asked if I had had it dowsed. I told him no and asked if he
recommended doing that. He said "no but it gives me a good excuse if I
drill a dry hole". He can tell no greater rate of success with dowsing.
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:57 PM
Subject: dowsing
Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse
for water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Yeah, I hired a "Water Witch" to locate my well when my wife and I built our house
last year. The part of North Carolina where we live is real spotty on water.
The groundwater tends to be in vertical shafts in the rock, so if you hit
one of those shafts, you get plenty of water, if not you get almost nothing.
My next door neighbor (who lives about a quarter mile away - we live out in the
country) only gets 1.5 gallons per minute from his 350' deep well. However,
the neighbor across the pond gets 100 gallons per minute, so we asked him how
he located his well. He gave me the name of the Water Witch, and I paid the
fellow a hundred bucks to tell me where to drill. Best money I ever spent.
He was sort of a strange dude. He spent about an hour just wandering all over
our 12 acres, occasionally pulling out a pair of "L" shaped copper rods about
18" long and 1/4" diameter. He would hold them loosely in his hands with the
long part of the L's out in front of him and parallel to each other. When he
got to a place where water was near the surface, the rods would rotate in his
hands and cross each other. I tried it and damn if it doesn't work! He found
his "best indication" and told us to drill there. He said he didn't get the
indication that he felt at Kim's place (the 100 gpm well), but he felt like we
would get between 7 and 10 gpm. We drilled there and hit water at 60', getting
6 gpm. We pushed on down to 200' just to have some reserve and we get a good
solid 10 gallons per minute.
I just want to say I'm a licensed engineer and don't understand at all how this
can work. But I believe it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:55 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: dowsing
>
> Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse for water,
tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
> Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
> walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
Del,
I can mail those articles to you today. No
postage is necessary.
Bill
IHA #7
--- del magsam wrote:
> I would be very interested in that article also. I'm
> thinking I can use the front wheels,disc brakes, and
> calipers from a four wheeler. a lot of them are 8
> inch.
> Im planning a trip to a motorcyle salvage co.
> del magsam
> 950 n knowles ave.
> new richmond wi 54017
> be glad to send you postage.
>
> --- Lauren Williams
> wrote:
> > Steve,
> >
> > The definitive article on wheel hubs was written
> by
> > Grant Maclaren. It
> > appeared in the March 1990 issue of Kitplanes, pg.
> > 36
> >
> > The best article on the logic was written by Jim
> > Loyd and appeared in
> > Kitplanes March 1992 issue on page 66.
> >
> > None of us got anything on wheels with the plans.
> > It used to be that
> > wheels were abundant. Anytime a Cub got wrecked,
> > the wheels were set
> > aside and used on a homebuilt.
> >
> > Lauren
> >
> >
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:22 -0500
> > From: vistin(at)juno.com
> > Subject: Wheel hubs.
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion
> >
> > I am building a GN-1 and the plans dont have a
> axel
> > hub for me to build.
> > How can one of these lil critters be built. Has
> > anyone got plans or
> > whatever.
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | hydraulic brakes |
Does anyone know of a small inexpensive( ha ha ) brake caliper for a disc
brake ? Do any go carts, motor scooters, small motorcycles or small trailers
have disc brakes ? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Ragan <lragan(at)hotmail.com> |
Yeah, but did you hit water? I've done the same thing with the short ends
of the copper rods in coke bottles. I don't swear by it, or understand it,
but it always seems to work.
>From: "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: RE: dowsing
>Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:17:32 +0200
>
>Yeah, I hired a "Water Witch" to locate my well when my wife and I built
>our house last year. The part of North Carolina where we live is real
>spotty on water. The groundwater tends to be in vertical shafts in the
>rock, so if you hit one of those shafts, you get plenty of water, if not
>you get almost nothing. My next door neighbor (who lives about a quarter
>mile away - we live out in the country) only gets 1.5 gallons per minute
>from his 350' deep well. However, the neighbor across the pond gets 100
>He was sort of a strange dude. He spent about an hour just wandering all
>over our 12 acres, occasionally pulling out a pair of "L" shaped copper
>rods about 18" long and 1/4" diameter. He would hold them loosely in his
>hands with the long part of the L's out in front of him and parallel to
>each other. When he got to a place where water was near the surface, the
>rods would rotate in his hands and cross each other. I tried it and damn
>if it doesn't work! He found his "best indication" and told us to dr
>I just want to say I'm a licensed engineer and don't understand at all how
>this can work. But I believe it.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:55 PM
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: dowsing
> >
> > Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse for
>water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
> > Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
> > walt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hydraulic brakes |
don
these four wheelers that you see running around are
the right size. I priced new ones yesterday.$104 for
the caliper and $34 for the disc. I'm heading for a
large motorcycle salvage yard to see if they have some
used ones. the wheels and rims are 8 inch so might be
usable too.if you see how they jump those four
wheelers, they should be strong enough. I might cast
my own aluminum wheels though. still researching it.
--- DonanClara(at)aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a small inexpensive( ha ha )
> brake caliper for a disc
> brake ? Do any go carts, motor scooters, small
> motorcycles or small trailers
> have disc brakes ? Any help or suggestions would be
> appreciated.
> Don Hicks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Yes, we get 10 gpm. This discussion list seems to lose about half of what i
send.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Ragan [SMTP:lragan(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 8:50 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: RE: dowsing
>
> Yeah, but did you hit water? I've done the same thing with the short ends
>
> of the copper rods in coke bottles. I don't swear by it, or understand
> it,
> but it always seems to work.
>
>
> >From: "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: RE: dowsing
> >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:17:32 +0200
> >
> >Yeah, I hired a "Water Witch" to locate my well when my wife and I built
> >our house last year. The part of North Carolina where we live is real
> >spotty on water. The groundwater tends to be in vertical shafts in the
> >rock, so if you hit one of those shafts, you get plenty of water, if not
> >you get almost nothing. My next door neighbor (who lives about a quarter
>
> >mile away - we live out in the country) only gets 1.5 gallons per minute
> >from his 350' deep well. However, the neighbor across the pond gets 100
> >He was sort of a strange dude. He spent about an hour just wandering all
>
> >over our 12 acres, occasionally pulling out a pair of "L" shaped copper
> >rods about 18" long and 1/4" diameter. He would hold them loosely in his
>
> >hands with the long part of the L's out in front of him and parallel to
> >each other. When he got to a place where water was near the surface, the
>
> >rods would rotate in his hands and cross each other. I tried it and damn
>
> >if it doesn't work! He found his "best indication" and told us to dr
> >I just want to say I'm a licensed engineer and don't understand at all
> how
> >this can work. But I believe it.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:55 PM
> > > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > > Subject: dowsing
> > >
> > > Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse
> for
> >water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
> > > Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
> > > walt
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | unrelated matters |
Hey guys, don't you think it's about time we knocked off all those non
Piet e-mails including interpersonal communications. If you have
something to say to somebody, e-mail them directly.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
Hey guys, don't you think it's about time we
knocked
off all those non Piet e-mails including interpersonal communications.
If you
have something to say to somebody, e-mail them directly.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Allen <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
Would like to know from any PIET and GN-1 builders
who are using a Cont. 65 through 80 series engine,
what size prop you suggest. And if any of you are using
HEGY props, what kind of experience have you encountered.
I am thinking of ordering a new HEGY 72x44 wooden prop
from Mr. Hegy. I have not talked to anyone who has his
prop or has done business with the man. Any comments
or recommendations are appreciated.
Mike
Dallas
(214) 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
My Cont A65-8 with McCauley 7148 metal prop came off a Piper
PA-17---though 1 1/2 to 2 years away from flying, I expect acceptable
performance...
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Michael King wrote:
> Would like to know from any PIET and GN-1 builders
> who are using a Cont. 65 through 80 series engine,
> what size prop you suggest. And if any of you are using
> HEGY props, what kind of experience have you encountered.
>
> I am thinking of ordering a new HEGY 72x44 wooden prop
> from Mr. Hegy. I have not talked to anyone who has his
> prop or has done business with the man. Any comments
> or recommendations are appreciated.
>
> Mike
> Dallas
> (214) 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
The only Pietenpol I have ever flown had an A-65 with a Hegy prop. I don't
know the particulars on the prop, but the plane had good performance. It
would outclimb and outrun the J-3 Cub I owned at the time. 72 x 44 is a
pretty typical dia and pitch for a wood prop on a Continental 65.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael King [SMTP:mikek(at)nstar.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 10:43 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: HEGY PROPS
>
>
> Would like to know from any PIET and GN-1 builders
> who are using a Cont. 65 through 80 series engine,
> what size prop you suggest. And if any of you are using
> HEGY props, what kind of experience have you encountered.
>
> I am thinking of ordering a new HEGY 72x44 wooden prop
> from Mr. Hegy. I have not talked to anyone who has his
> prop or has done business with the man. Any comments
> or recommendations are appreciated.
>
> Mike
> Dallas
> (214) 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, John Weikel wrote:
> Interesting question. I had a water well drilled 3 yrs ago and the
> driller asked if I had had it dowsed. I told him no and asked if he
> recommended doing that. He said "no but it gives me a good excuse if I
> drill a dry hole". He can tell no greater rate of success with dowsing.
> John W
> d -----Original Message-----
> From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:57 PM
> Subject: dowsing
>
>
> Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse for
water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
> Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
> walt
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike K wrote:
The size is proably OK, but with a 65 you will need a metal prop to keep
the CG in acceptable limits.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
Mike K wrote:
I am thinking of ordering a new HEGY
72x44 wooden
prop
The size is proably OK, but with a 65 you
will need a
metal prop to keep the CG in acceptable limits.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B and V Dearinger <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
Mike I have owned 2 of Hegy's props.Both were of good quality for the
price.Also both ended up being cruise props as they seem to turn a little
heavier than some.Climb suffered a little but speed made up for it. My next
one from him will be a climb prop so I get all around performance.Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 9:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HEGY PROPS
>
>Would like to know from any PIET and GN-1 builders
>who are using a Cont. 65 through 80 series engine,
>what size prop you suggest. And if any of you are using
>HEGY props, what kind of experience have you encountered.
>
>I am thinking of ordering a new HEGY 72x44 wooden prop
>from Mr. Hegy. I have not talked to anyone who has his
>prop or has done business with the man. Any comments
>or recommendations are appreciated.
>
>Mike
>Dallas
>(214) 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
Mike B.,
Thanks for the advice. I have an A-80 with a
69 x 39 metal McCaulley prop. It climbs ok
but feel a larger prop would boost its 2-person
onboard performance......especially here in
Texas.
Mike K.
>>>>
Mike K wrote:
<
The size is proably OK, but with a 65 you will need a metal prop to keep
the CG in acceptable limits.
Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
<<<<<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: unrelated matters |
I don't know about others, but one reason (besides Piets, of course) I like
this group so much is the diversity of the education, backgrounds and
interests of the people I share this sweet little airplane with. Always
interested in learning something new.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: props
Hi Mike (K). I'm still trying to get my schedule straight for the Burnet
fly-in next weekend. I'm heading for Dallas this Friday, so I'll swing by
Burnet and check the site out. Any more news on this?
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Mike B.,
>
>Thanks for the advice. I have an A-80 with a
>69 x 39 metal McCaulley prop. It climbs ok
>but feel a larger prop would boost its 2-person
>onboard performance......especially here in
>Texas.
>
>Mike K.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>Mike K wrote:
>
>
>
> The size is proably OK, but with a 65 you will need a metal prop to
keep the CG in acceptable limits.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB (Mr Sam )
>
>
> <<<<
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Yes,
I CAN'T SAY THAT IT'S DOWSING HOWEVER I WORK FOR THE PHONE
COMPANY AND AT ONE TIME I WORKED OUT SIDE AND HAD TO LOCATE
CABLES FOR FOR THE WATER COMPANY AND PRIVATE CONTRACTORS.
I HAD A STANDARD CABLE LOCATOR THAT HAD A TONE THAT NULLED
WHEN IT WAS HELD DIRECTLY OVER THE CABLE THEN YOU COULD MARK
THE LOCATION AND TILT THE UNIT 45 DEGREES AND MOVE TO THE
SIDE THIS WOULD TELL THE DEPTH. SOMETIMES THE BATTERIES
WOULD BE DOWN AND I WOULD TAKE THE 19 AWG STEEL FLAGS
THAT WERE ABOUT 24 TO 30 INCHES IN LENGTH AND I WOULD
BEND ABOUT FIVE INCHES ON THE END DOWN AT A 45 ANGLE
AND HOLD TWO WIRES ONE IN EACH HAND WHEN YOU CROSSED
A PHONE CABLE OR WATER LINE PERPENDICULARLY THE WIRES
WOULD TRY TO LINE THEMSELVES UP WITH THE WATER LINE
OR TELEPHONE CABLE, THIS IS NOT A ESP OR ANYTHING LIKE
THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF ELECTRIC FIELD AROUND THE
OBJECT THAT CAUSES THE WIRE TO TRY TO ALIGN ITSELF
WITH THE OBJECT, COAT HANGERS ALSO WORK HOWEVER
I NEVER DOWSED A WELL AND THIS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
THING. YOU CAN ALSO REMOTLY HOLD THE WIRES WITH
SOME DEVISE OTHER THAN YOUR HANDS AND THE WIRES
WILL ALIGN THEMSELVES. IF YA DON'T BELIEVE TRY IT!
RUSSELL RAY
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:54 PM
Subject: dowsing
Just a strange question.....Does anyone know of anyone who can dowse
for water, tanks, pipes? Just curious about the concept.
Thinking about dowsing and Pietenpols.
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Burroughs <glenn(at)sysweb.com> |
| Subject: | Plans lack details |
Hello,
The plans that my friend is using (purchased from Don Pietenpol) for the
Pietenpol Aircamper really lack details. Just about every description is
either confusing or has details missing. Is there another set of plans
available that are more detailed?
Thanks, Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | RE: Plans lack details |
September 23, 1999 - September 29, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bg