Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bi
October 07, 1999 - November 09, 1999
>
>
> =====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1934 construction handbook |
You want the 1932 one for the Piet
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 5:46 PM
| Subject: | 1934 construction handbook |
> People keep mentioning a flying and glider
> construction handbook,1934 or there abouts. It sounds
> like something I need. where do I get my hands on one?
>
>
> =====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Weikel <jandd(at)maverickbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1934 construction handbook |
You can get them from the EAA or from Aircraft Spruce.
John W
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 7:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1934 construction handbook
>People keep mentioning a flying and glider
>construction handbook,1934 or there abouts. It sounds
>like something I need. where do I get my hands on one?
>
>
>=====
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | One piece wing versus three |
Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
wishing they had built the one and a few one
piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
anybody happy with what they built?
I am curious....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: aileron hinges question |
On original construction, floating nut plates are screwed on the inside of
the wing spar and inside of the aileron spar. Holes naturally go thru the
spars with screws to hold on the hinge. On replacements, just use screws
into the spars with epoxy so they wont vibrate loose.......if you forward
your snail address, I will send you a detailed drawing...............
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 3:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aileron hinges question
>Steve wrote:
>
>I am interested in what manner did yall mount yer piano hinges. I am
>building a GN-1 and now I will switch to piano hinges too but just dont
>understand how and where to install them. Hepme yall.
>
>Steve
>
>
>> Walt,
>>
>> I just used the hardware store version like the plans call for and
>> welded the end of the hinge down. Bought aircraft piano hinges and
>> decided I did like it as well because it did reach down over the
>> wood
>> surface on the aileron and wing as far.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>#6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One piece wing versus three |
I built a single piece wing along with a turn around structure so I didn't
have to rely on anyone to help me turn the beast. I also have another plane
with a 28' single wing, no regrets either way..........
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: One piece wing versus three
>Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
>regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
>wishing they had built the one and a few one
>piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
>anybody happy with what they built?
>I am curious....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Hi Mike:
Grants e-mail is GMacLaren(at)aol.com
Jim Kearns
Carmichael, CA
>From: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: BPA Newsletter
>Date: Thu, Sep 30, 1999, 6:22 AM
>
>Will someone send me Grant's EMail address? I was going to drop him a note
>about taking over the newsletter and can't seem to find hisaddress.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1934 construction handbook |
writes:
>People keep mentioning a flying and glider
>construction handbook,1934 or there abouts. It sounds
>like something I need. where do I get my hands on one?
>
Del
You don't NEED it.
The Flying and Glider Manuals are available in an edited version from the
EAA. Do yourself a favor and use them for the interesting bit of
nostalgia that they are and NOT as the definitive source of how an Air
Camper should be built. I was really confused when I started on my
project because of the conflict between the F&GM and the plans. I was
finally told by Dick Alkire (and in no uncertain terms) to bury the F&GM
in a safe place and retrieve it after I finished the Piet. End of
confusion and conflict! Bottom line:follow the plans!
I've only seen one original F&GM (John Greenlee) and didn't have a chance
to look at for long but the one EAA has seems to be an adulterated
version with pictures from the EAA archives to make it more "updated".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One piece wing versus three |
how did you configure your turn around construction? I
will be suspending it to the ceiling and was hoping I
could come up with a design to flip it while hanging
from cables.
--- Earl Myers wrote:
> I built a single piece wing along with a turn around
> structure so I didn't
> have to rely on anyone to help me turn the beast. I
> also have another plane
> with a 28' single wing, no regrets either
> way..........
> Earl Myers
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:18 PM
> Subject: One piece wing versus three
>
>
> >Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
> >regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
> >wishing they had built the one and a few one
> >piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
> >anybody happy with what they built?
> >I am curious....
> >
> >
>
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | RE: One piece wing versus three |
Hi Bill,
I built the three piece and am pretty happy with it. The biggest advantage
for me is that the centersection can be redesigned to achieve dfferent
objectives easier than the whole wing can be. For example, long after wing
construction had started, I decided that I would prefer to have a circular
cutout in the centersection to provide easier cockpit access and improved
visibility. Easily done since the centersection had not been built yet. I
also wanted more than 10 gallon fuel capcaity. So I made my centersection
6" wider and picked up a couple of gallons.
The obvious advantage to the 3-piece is it requires less space to build. It
also is easier to transport to the airport for final assembly. The one
piece is undoubtedly lighter, but requires a good scarf joint in the spars.
The way the plans call out the scarf is not the best way to do it. If you
do it the way the plans call out, I would add a plywood doubler on each side
of the spar to cover the scarf.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Talbert [SMTP:wtalbert(at)flash.net]
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:20 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: One piece wing versus three
>
> Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
> regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
> wishing they had built the one and a few one
> piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
> anybody happy with what they built?
> I am curious....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Top of Vertical Stabilizer |
How did you guys do the top of the vertical stabilizer? Plans show the
leading edge and beam coming up but not meeting. Plywood gusset covers what
I suppose is a solid piece of spruce, routed over to match the leading edge.
Butt joint to leading edge OK here?
Thanks,
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | foam filled fuel tanks |
I recieved a catalog from "ATL racing fuel cells" they
have molded plastic fuel cells that are foam filled
(to prevent explosion and fire in the event of a
crash)
that weigh 18 lbs in a 12 gal size. and the cost is
$311.00 and has a 5 year limited warranty. It can also
be fitted with a spill proof filler in the case of
overturn. another option is to build your own aluminum
tank around their foam. the cost for just the foam is
53.00 for a 12 gal size.
what is everybodys thoughts on that and how does that
weight compare to a conventional aluminum tank?
del
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: Top of Vertical Stabilizer |
Joe, a tapered filler is sandwiched between (2) 1/8th inch thick plywood gussets.
The filler tapers from 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch (1/2 at leading edge and 5/8 at
main beam). So, to answer your question the filler butts against the top of
the leading edge and the front top forward side of the main beam. You have
to come up with your own dimension on how much to overlap the gusset at the leading
edge. I think I did mine at least an inch or more. Hope this helps. Bart
> ----------
> From: Joe Krzes[SMTP:jkrzes(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 7:24 AM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Top of Vertical Stabilizer
>
> How did you guys do the top of the vertical stabilizer? Plans show the
> leading edge and beam coming up but not meeting. Plywood gusset covers what
> I suppose is a solid piece of spruce, routed over to match the leading edge.
> Butt joint to leading edge OK here?
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CONTROL COLUMN DIMENSIONS |
Just starting to build the control column. Can anyone tell me the clearance required
between the bottom of the control stick and the top of the 7/8 inch dia
torque tube? Need this info to properly size the attachment fittings that get
welded to the bottom of the control stick. Also, how much clearance is required
between the bottom of the pulleys and the top of the torque tube. Thanks,
Bart
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One piece wing versus three |
I have the 3 piece wing and love it. If you have to transport the plane,
and you will, it makes life a lot easier. If you have a 16 foot trailer
then 3 piece is great. If you have a 30 foot trailer then you can go either
way. I have 55 hours on mine, but it still has more hours on a trailer than
in the air.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
>regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
>wishing they had built the one and a few one
>piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
>anybody happy with what they built?
>I am curious....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One piece wing versus three |
Del;
Look in this month's EAA Sport Aviation Magazine in the Knight Twister
article. There is a roll over "gadget" there. In lieu of that, my turnover
thing is a big letter "C" frame of plywood sides built about 2' apart,
"struts" hanging down from the opening attaching to the center section tabs
to hold the wing. This "C" shaped frame rests on a 2x4 framework on the
floor that has rollers (long 1"dia by 12" long), 2 per side of the "C" for
the edges of the unit to roll on. There are 4 castors under the whole thing
to move along the floor. Del, better yet, give me your snail address offline
to me and I will send you some pictures. A picture is worth a thousand
words!!!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One piece wing versus three
>how did you configure your turn around construction? I
>will be suspending it to the ceiling and was hoping I
>could come up with a design to flip it while hanging
>from cables.
>
>--- Earl Myers wrote:
>> I built a single piece wing along with a turn around
>> structure so I didn't
>> have to rely on anyone to help me turn the beast. I
>> also have another plane
>> with a 28' single wing, no regrets either
>> way..........
>> Earl Myers
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
>> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:18 PM
>> Subject: One piece wing versus three
>>
>>
>> >Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
>> >regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
>> >wishing they had built the one and a few one
>> >piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
>> >anybody happy with what they built?
>> >I am curious....
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>=====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: One piece wing versus three |
I chose the one piece wing on my Scout because of the weight savings and
easier rigging. There are more drawbacks to the one piece wing however. I
had to build a special trailer (a set of wheels/axle on a LONG tongue) to
move it, build a special wing turnover rig so I could cover it/work on it
alone and make sure that the workshop(s) are big enough. I also built
jackable "Tees" for the beast to sit on. I then could jack up the tees and
roll the fuselage under it. I also built special roll around wing sadles for
it too while in storage. Looking back on all this, there is a lot of
"putzing" around just to save 15# of wing weight. AND, as someone pointed
out here, the odd scarf joint kinda made me nervous so i did the splice with
birch ply doublers which nibbled into that 15# savings...........doing it
again I would still do a one piece wing only because I had a shop big
enough...which is now filled up with all the extra gadgets needed to build
the 1 piece so there is no room for the 1 piece wing so I have to build the
3 piece next time to move around all the stuff stored for the 1 piece (Catch
22). I do have another plane in there that has a ...one piece wing that is
at the cover stage....
BUILD THE 3 PIECE WING AND SLEEP AT NIGHT!
Earl Myers
-----Original Message-----
From: Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:27 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One piece wing versus three
>I have the 3 piece wing and love it. If you have to transport the plane,
>and you will, it makes life a lot easier. If you have a 16 foot trailer
>then 3 piece is great. If you have a 30 foot trailer then you can go
either
>way. I have 55 hours on mine, but it still has more hours on a trailer
than
>in the air.
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>
>>Just out of curiosity, I have seen a lot of
>>regrets on here, people who had the 3 piece
>>wishing they had built the one and a few one
>>piecers wishing they built the three. Is there
>>anybody happy with what they built?
>>I am curious....
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: 1934 construction handbook |
>
>
> writes:
>>People keep mentioning a flying and glider
>>construction handbook,1934 or there abouts. It sounds
>>like something I need. where do I get my hands on one?
>>
>Del
>
>You don't NEED it.
>
>The Flying and Glider Manuals are available in an edited version from the
>EAA. Do yourself a favor and use them for the interesting bit of
>nostalgia that they are and NOT as the definitive source of how an Air
>Camper should be built. I was really confused when I started on my
>project because of the conflict between the F&GM and the plans. I was
>finally told by Dick Alkire (and in no uncertain terms) to bury the F&GM
>in a safe place and retrieve it after I finished the Piet. End of
>confusion and conflict! Bottom line:follow the plans!
>
>I've only seen one original F&GM (John Greenlee) and didn't have a chance
>to look at for long but the one EAA has seems to be an adulterated
>version with pictures from the EAA archives to make it more "updated".
>
>
One of the "main adulteration" in the EAA F&GM are that at that time the
Cromoly was not popular (if available) like today, the availability happened
only after the wars industrial boom... so all the planes (at least most of
them) of that era were designed using the 1025 steel, and maybe "normal"
wood, this will explain why they are heavy overbuilt....
I think that they "safetly modified" some of the plans to prevent building
them "dangerously".
I will be fun to read in this books that the prototype Aircamper was built
using T-88 :-) :-)
They are great books but NOT pure original...
If someone will redesign these planes sure they will be lighter and will fly
better but will NOT be original, like building a "Pietlancair" :-) :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: chrome-moly steel |
>Del:
>Chrome-molly steel is about four times the tensile strength of SAE 1025
steel. It's properties are toughness and wear resistance. Ref. A&P Tech gen
textbook. I would not use standard steel on any flight control system.
The 1025 is at the middle of Chromoly and 6061-T6.... If aluminum is OK,
then why not 1025?
1025 is stong (not like the mild 1018 used for conduit tubes)
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
I HAVE STARTED BUILDING MY FUSELAGE [ THE LONG VERSION OFF THE SUPPLEMENTAL
PLANS FROM DON PIETENPOL] SINCE THE SUPPLEMENTAL PLANS ONLY SHOW THE NEW
MEASUREMENTS OF THE LENGTH ,UPRIGHTS,ANDDIAGANOL BRACES. HOW ABOUT THE TOP
AND BOTTOM? I SUPPOSE SINCE THE LANDING GEAR CROSS BRACES NEED TO BE IN THE
SAME LOCATION UNDER THEOLD PLANS THEN WOULD I BE RIGHT IN STARTING FROM
THERE WITH THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE OLD PLANS AND WORKING MY WAY BACK FROM
THERE ? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: chrome-moly steel |
>Gary:
> Your statement:
>
>>Chrome-molly steel is about four times the tensile strength of SAE
>1025 >steel. It's properties are toughness and wear resistance. Ref.
>A&P Tech >gen textbook. I would not use standard steel on any flight
>control system.
>
>
> Is very misleading. Standard tensile strength of 4130 chrome moly
>steel is 90,000 PSI. Mild steel is normally about 60,000 PSI. My
>math says that the difference is 50%, not 400%.
I am another Gary but:
1025 is not the same as mild steel
mild steel is 1018.
I am not sure of this but is something that has to do with the amount of
carbon and strenth...
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
... So I looked for the "Elmers" on the shelf, but spotted the " yellow
furniture glue" first. It was Titebond ll. Holy moly, this is what people
are going to build a plane with? First of all if you look on the label it
says not to use below waterline. What if you get rain at a flyin and a
little puddle lays back near the sternpost of the fusela> ....
You forget something:
I supose that you going to use at least barnish... Remember that with this
new generation of barnish, the wood (and Glue) is really waterproff. Well
only if you plan to build a pietsubmarine? :-) :-)
Remember also that there are still flying wooden airplanes (80+ years old)
with Casein Glue and plain ol'barnish....
These new generation of glues and Poliuretane (sp?) barnishes sure are
better.
If my wooden airplane was by accident in any ocasion "under the waterline"
(read sunk), even if it was built with Resorsinol or T-88 or name it... I
will not fly it again. but plain rain and moisture will be perfectly handled
by the Poliuretane (sp?) barnish.
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
>Howdy, what glue do you use then?
Titebond II :-) :-)
>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>>What I was trying to say was that t-88 can lay on the wood and not
>penetrate.
>> Working the glue in the joint will help. I have pulled T-88 joints apart
>>and found that the glue stays one side of the joint. There will be some
>wood
>>in the glue that was ripped away, but the glue still pulled off the wood.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
| Subject: | Re: IHA / CHEAPEX |
Count me on
Gary Gower
Apartado # 5-96 Chapalita
Guadalajara, Jalisco
45040 MEXICO
Do you accept internantional membership?
Saludos
Gary Gower
>I do some of my best thinking walking a mile through the woods and
>fields to the post office. Today I came up with the acronym for the
>IHA inexpensive parts exchange: CHEAPEX ( cost effective aircraft
>parts exchange ) I threw in the H to make it work.... I don't know if
>that's permitted under the rules of acronym ettiquitte, but I don't
>really care.
> CHEAPEX will be an online mailer of parts available from members
>as well as any good deals found either online or offline. CHEAPEX is
>also a forum for any helpful suggestions or tales of woe.
> For lack of a better name the newsletter for now will be called:
>CHEAP TIMES, and I will try to get the first issue out in the next few
>days. Please submit anything of possible interest......
>
>I have had a number of questions from new members and I will attempt
>to deal with them below:
>
>>Where do I send dues to.
>>Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
>>Tim Cunningham
>
>Tim:
> There are no actual dues, but contributions should be sent to:
>
>IHA / CHEAPEX
>100 S. Main
>Melville, Mt. 59055
>
>It might be a good idea to include my name until the postmistress gets
>used to the idea. I already recieve mail under 4 company names 3 of
>them imaginary at this address, so most unidentified mail goes to me
>;-)
>
>For example:
>
>IHA / CHEAPEX
>C/O Howard Wilkinson
>100 S. Main
>Melville, Mt.
>
>
>>when do I get my membership card?
>
>Gordon:
> Your membership card will be sent to you online for you to print
>and cut out. However we have yet to develop a suitable logo, and I
>solicit your assistance in this critical matter.
>
>>think we can sit out by parking lot with our cups and get donations?
>
>Gordon:
>
> IHA / CHEAPEX does not condone begging unless done tastefully.
>Bring your project on a trailer (your project might consist only of a
>couple of ribs or an elevator surface or a single 500x4 tire, or it
>might be an almost ready to fly Baby Ace), and put a clearly labled
>donation box alongside it with donations written in letters no larger
>than 36" high. Be sure to anchor the box down well and lock it.
>There is honor among homebuilders, but not among the general public.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
Thats probably Casein Glue.
>That the powder stuff? Mix with water, If so my Uncle Roy used it to glue
>his Fishing Tackle boxes with, marine ply, I still have 5 boxes that are
>over 40 yrs old and I have had one break when it dropped off the shelf with
>50 lbs of tools in it, It broke the wood and not the glue. We used to mix
>it up and put it in a brass oil can with a trigger, use trigger to push it
>out, But ya better clean the thing out good before it sets up or the OilCan
>is wasted, I worked for him off and on when I was in school. Hoffman Tackle
>Boxes.
>
>Gordon
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:31 AM
>Subject: My story.
>
>
>> I gonna use "Weldwood", Thats my story n Im gonna stick to it!!
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Gary,
I'm not sure what Barnish is.
My Point was that if you can get T88 for about the same price as Tightbond
ll, why wouldn't you use T88?
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: holy moly
>
>... So I looked for the "Elmers" on the shelf, but spotted the " yellow
>furniture glue" first. It was Titebond ll. Holy moly, this is what people
>are going to build a plane with? First of all if you look on the label it
>says not to use below waterline. What if you get rain at a flyin and a
>little puddle lays back near the sternpost of the fusela> ....
>
>You forget something:
>
>I supose that you going to use at least barnish... Remember that with
this
>new generation of barnish, the wood (and Glue) is really waterproff. Well
>only if you plan to build a pietsubmarine? :-) :-)
>
>
>Remember also that there are still flying wooden airplanes (80+ years old)
>with Casein Glue and plain ol'barnish....
>
>These new generation of glues and Poliuretane (sp?) barnishes sure are
>better.
>
>If my wooden airplane was by accident in any ocasion "under the waterline"
>(read sunk), even if it was built with Resorsinol or T-88 or name it...
I
>will not fly it again. but plain rain and moisture will be perfectly
handled
>by the Poliuretane (sp?) barnish.
>
>Saludos
>
>Gary Gower
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Culpepper VA |
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Mike C.
Are you still going to Culpepper tomarrow?
Craig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Must be really happy as your yelling it out in all CAPS.
Congrats on starting
Gordon Brimhall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <RBush96589(at)aol.com> |
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 5:41 PM
> HEY FOLKS,
> I HAVE STARTED BUILDING MY FUSELAGE [ THE LONG VERSION OFF THE
SUPPLEMENTAL
> PLANS FROM DON PIETENPOL] SINCE THE SUPPLEMENTAL PLANS ONLY SHOW THE NEW
> MEASUREMENTS OF THE LENGTH ,UPRIGHTS,ANDDIAGANOL BRACES. HOW ABOUT THE TOP
> AND BOTTOM? I SUPPOSE SINCE THE LANDING GEAR CROSS BRACES NEED TO BE IN
THE
> SAME LOCATION UNDER THEOLD PLANS THEN WOULD I BE RIGHT IN STARTING FROM
> THERE WITH THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE OLD PLANS AND WORKING MY WAY BACK FROM
> THERE ? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent along
something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions too.
He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent it
over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29 a 5
pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in Florida,
that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength would
be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer, I
would say it is plenty strong.
Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
Flying a GN-1
Building a Pietenpol/
________________________________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gumper
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piper wings
In reference to John Grega's plans for GN-1, concerning the weight and
balance page of his plans, he refers to the Aerodynamic Center of
Airfoil for J-3 wings only. Does anyone know what he is referring to?
Did he build his plane with Piper wings? Has anyone used Piper wings?
If so, I would like to hear from them. S.D.G. sd0279(at)fidnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gumper
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: piper wings
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gumper
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: piper wings
In reference to John Grega's plans for GN-1, concerning the weight and
balance page of his plans, he refers to the Aerodynamic Center of
Airfoil for J-3 wings only. Does anyone know what he is referring to?
Did he build his plane with Piper wings? Has anyone used Piper wings?
If so, I would like to hear from them. S.D.G. sd0279(at)fidnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Is there any information on wooden lift struts available?. Also looking
at the plans, I dont see any info on the diagonal streamlined tubes that
connect the upper engine mount fittings to the top of the fwd center
struts. Could someone tell me if this is shown on any of the drawings.
Gary
Frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent
>along
>something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions
>too.
>
>He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent
>it
>over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29
>a 5
>pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in
>Florida,
>that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength
>would
>be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer,
>I
>would say it is plenty strong.
>
>Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
>
>Ted Brousseau
>Naples, FL
>Flying a GN-1
>Building a Pietenpol/
>
>Ted
Good to hear from you! I've been sweating you out since you departed
B'head to FL via the "great circle route". Good to know that you made it
home OK.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CONTROL COLUMN DIMENSIONS |
writes:
>Just starting to build the control column. Can anyone tell me the
>clearance required between the bottom of the control stick and the top
>of the 7/8 inch dia torque tube? Need this info to properly size the
>attachment fittings that get welded to the bottom of the control
>stick. Also, how much clearance is required between the bottom of
>the pulleys and the top of the torque tube. Thanks, Bart
>Bart D Conrad
>Boeing Field Service
>DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
>Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
>Fax: 713-640-5891
>Pager: 713-318-1625
Bart
My dimension from the bottom of the stick to the top of the torque tube
is 7/8" and at it's extreme throw it clears the elevator nicely.
The pulleys should be mounted as closely as possible to the torque tube
without toucing. I actually had to mill off just a little on one of mine
because it was touching the torque tube!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
>
> I HAVE STARTED BUILDING MY FUSELAGE [ THE LONG VERSION OFF THE
>SUPPLEMENTAL
>PLANS FROM DON PIETENPOL] SINCE THE SUPPLEMENTAL PLANS ONLY SHOW THE
>NEW
>MEASUREMENTS OF THE LENGTH ,UPRIGHTS,ANDDIAGANOL BRACES. HOW ABOUT THE
>TOP
>AND BOTTOM? I SUPPOSE SINCE THE LANDING GEAR CROSS BRACES NEED TO BE
>IN THE
>SAME LOCATION UNDER THEOLD PLANS THEN WOULD I BE RIGHT IN STARTING
>FROM
>THERE WITH THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE OLD PLANS AND WORKING MY WAY BACK
>FROM
>THERE ? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
>
>
Robert
Polite e-mail ettiquette requires the use of all capital letters be
reserved for screamingly important announcements.
Now....the important stuff-lay out the fuse sides as outlined on the
plans and when it comes to inserting the cross-members, they will fall
naturally into place if you will keep all dimensions per the original to
the aft seatback. Then clamp the tailposts together and fill in the
remainder of the cross-members wherever an intersection with an upright
occurs. One important thing to remember is that the last top cross piece
needs to be planned so that the stab will butt up to the aft end of the
turtle deck and be even with the aft end of the tail post.
You are correct in assuming that the cross pieces for the gear are a
critical measurement. It is the same dimension as the cabane attach
points and the wing struts spacing and allows the load (landing and in
flight) to be transferred along the same plane in the structure.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe zw <joezw(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
Good Morning
my name is Joe
Zweck and i am interested in Doug's peit but have lost his tele #.
my tele # is 507-263-4953 and e-mail is joezw(at)hotmail.com.
would not be able to buy till mid nov but if he hasn't sold by then maybe we
could work something out.
Later
Joe.
>From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:26:46 -0400 (EDT)
>
>In a message dated 9/28/99 10:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>gyachts(at)kans.com writes:
>
><< Is Doug building another Piet this winter? That way if he gets his
>medical
> back he will have something to fly?
> If anyone wants to look at Doug's Piet here are some pictures of it. It
>was
> a very nice Piet.
>
> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image4.jpg
> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image2.jpg
> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image5.jpg
> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image3.jpg
> >>
>
>Doug has began construction of an ultralite called the 'Zing'. He already
>has all the ribs done !! It uses a 2 stroke Kawasaki engine. He is
>continuing to try to get his medical back, but started this plane...just in
>case. Just Gotta Fly !!
>Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe zw <joezw(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A |
>From: joe zw <joezw(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A
>Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 02:31:18 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Good Morning
>my name is Joe
>Zweck and i am interested in Doug's peit but have lost his tele #.
>my tele # is 507-263-4953 and e-mail is joezw(at)hotmail.com.
>would not be able to buy till mid nov but if he hasn't sold by then maybe
>we
>could work something out.
>Later
>Joe.
>
>>From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>>Subject: Re: For Sale : Pietenpol Air Camper, Model A
>>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:26:46 -0400 (EDT)
>>
>>In a message dated 9/28/99 10:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>>gyachts(at)kans.com writes:
>>
>><< Is Doug building another Piet this winter? That way if he gets his
>>medical
>> back he will have something to fly?
>> If anyone wants to look at Doug's Piet here are some pictures of it. It
>>was
>> a very nice Piet.
>>
>> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image4.jpg
>> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image2.jpg
>> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image5.jpg
>> http://kans.com/gyachts/benton/image3.jpg
>> >>
>>
>>Doug has began construction of an ultralite called the 'Zing'. He
>>already
>>has all the ribs done !! It uses a 2 stroke Kawasaki engine. He is
>>continuing to try to get his medical back, but started this plane...just
>>in
>>case. Just Gotta Fly !!
>>Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>Is there any information on wooden lift struts available?. Also
>looking at the plans, I dont see any info on the diagonal streamlined
>tubes that connect the upper engine mount fittings to the top of the
>fwd center struts. Could someone tell me if this is shown on any of
>the drawings.
>Gary
>Frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
Gary
Everything from electrical conduit (on a very well-known Piet) to round
4130 to streamlined tubing has been used with end fittings ranging from
smashing the ends to "U" shaped cut-outs with welded reinforcements, and
even a few with both ends welded onto their mounting brackets.
Make a temporary set out of scrap to clamp things in place while you're
building, then make your permanent set after doing your wt./bal
calculations. OR...make an adjustable set with threaded fork-ends so you
can fine-tune them as necessary.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Nose High Attitude |
My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
the rudder from side to side.
Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
nose and maintain level flight?
Thanks.....
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 5:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nose High Attitude
Mike, does it take much (or any?) forward stick in cruise with a full tank?
Could be a tad weighty in the tail. My GN flys pretty much level. Of
course neither you nor I would qualify as jockys.
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>
>My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
>cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
>
>When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
>trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
>once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
>the rudder from side to side.
>
>Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
>in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
>nose and maintain level flight?
>
>Thanks.....
>
>Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
>
>My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
>cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
>
>When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
>trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
>once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
>the rudder from side to side.
>
>Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
>in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
>nose and maintain level flight?
>
>Thanks.....
>
>Mike
>
I know the Breusseau (sp?) GN-1 at B'head flew the same way and it was
discovered that all of his cabane struts were the same length. That
effectively put the fuselage in a nose-high attitude when the wing was at
the proper angle of attack to maintain flight. From the ground it always
looked like it was on the verge of a stall!
So- check out your angle of incidence, decalage, and CG.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
Larry,
Good point. I have aerial pictures of the plane from
previous owners and it looked a little nose high
in cruise.
Next time I am at the airport, I will measure the cabanes
and report back.
I am a little over 200 pounds....had my duffle bag of
clothes in the front cockpit and the 12 gal fuel tank
full on take off. It seemed to me the nose got a little
higher on my cross country trip as the gas burned off.
I have often wondered if the the PIETS and GN-1s
were designed to fly a little nose high in level cruise
flight.
Thanks for the input.
Mike
Dallas
>
>
>>
>>My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
>>cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
>>
>>When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
>>trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
>>once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
>>the rudder from side to side.
>>
>>Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
>>in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
>>nose and maintain level flight?
>>
>>Thanks.....
>>
>>Mike
>>
>I know the Breusseau (sp?) GN-1 at B'head flew the same way and it was
>discovered that all of his cabane struts were the same length. That
>effectively put the fuselage in a nose-high attitude when the wing was at
>the proper angle of attack to maintain flight. From the ground it always
>looked like it was on the verge of a stall!
>
>So- check out your angle of incidence, decalage, and CG.
>
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 6:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nose High Attitude
Mike, my cabanes are the same length on my GN. All you need to do is tape
some bricks to the top of the engine cowling:o) Seriously though, if you
go to a wooden prop, (I think you have a metal prop now), you're situation
may be further enhanced.
Robert Hensarling
http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
Uvalde, Texas
>Larry,
>
>Good point. I have aerial pictures of the plane from
>previous owners and it looked a little nose high
>in cruise.
>
>Next time I am at the airport, I will measure the cabanes
>and report back.
>
>I am a little over 200 pounds....had my duffle bag of
>clothes in the front cockpit and the 12 gal fuel tank
>full on take off. It seemed to me the nose got a little
>higher on my cross country trip as the gas burned off.
>
>I have often wondered if the the PIETS and GN-1s
>were designed to fly a little nose high in level cruise
>flight.
>
>Thanks for the input.
>
>Mike
>Dallas
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
>>>cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
>>>
>>>When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
>>>trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
>>>once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
>>>the rudder from side to side.
>>>
>>>Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
>>>in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
>>>nose and maintain level flight?
>>>
>>>Thanks.....
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>I know the Breusseau (sp?) GN-1 at B'head flew the same way and it was
>>discovered that all of his cabane struts were the same length. That
>>effectively put the fuselage in a nose-high attitude when the wing was at
>>the proper angle of attack to maintain flight. From the ground it always
>>looked like it was on the verge of a stall!
>>
>>So- check out your angle of incidence, decalage, and CG.
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
Larry,
Wow, that is scary - 62.6 hours from Florida to OSH and Brodhead and back on
the verge of a stall....
Seriously, my GN-1 does fly slightly nose high. I thought all Piets did
until I saw them at OSH and Brodhead. No one else's did. So, I was also
told about the shorter rear cabane. Made sense and I thought that was the
answer until I checked the GN-1 plans. They call for equal cabanes. A
Pietenpol calls for 1" shorter in the rear.
So, it is back to the drawing boards. I haven't had time to check the
actual W&B, but that might be the problem. If someone else comes up with
the answer I would sure like to hear.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 6:35 PM
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
>
>
> >
> >My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
> >cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
> >
> >When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
> >trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
> >once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
> >the rudder from side to side.
> >
> >Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
> >in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
> >nose and maintain level flight?
> >
> >Thanks.....
> >
> >Mike
> >
> I know the Breusseau (sp?) GN-1 at B'head flew the same way and it was
> discovered that all of his cabane struts were the same length. That
> effectively put the fuselage in a nose-high attitude when the wing was at
> the proper angle of attack to maintain flight. From the ground it always
> looked like it was on the verge of a stall!
>
> So- check out your angle of incidence, decalage, and CG.
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
writes:
>Larry,
>
>Wow, that is scary - 62.6 hours from Florida to OSH and Brodhead and
>back on
>the verge of a stall....
>
>Seriously, my GN-1 does fly slightly nose high. I thought all Piets
>did
>until I saw them at OSH and Brodhead. No one else's did. So, I was
>also
>told about the shorter rear cabane. Made sense and I thought that was
>the
>answer until I checked the GN-1 plans. They call for equal cabanes.
>A
>Pietenpol calls for 1" shorter in the rear.
>
>So, it is back to the drawing boards. I haven't had time to check
>the
>actual W&B, but that might be the problem. If someone else comes up
>with
>the answer I would sure like to hear.
>
Ted
I think the answer is......Build a Pietenpol!! ;-)
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robert hensarling <rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Nose High Attitude
I was wondering when that was coming.
Robert Hensarling
>
>I think the answer is......Build a Pietenpol!! ;-)
>
>Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BLee552856(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | wrong email address |
some how you or some else is useing the wrong screen name or email address
i have got tons tons of you email back to me please lets find the problem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BLee552856(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | still the wrong email |
their got to be a solution to this
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BLee552856(at)aol.com |
nice business and i have a business to and they respond to the same email so
please lets get it straight
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE PIET |
> Please take me off your mailing list thank you
UNSUBSCRIBE PIET
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | UNSUBSCRIBE PIET |
UNSUBSCRIBE PIET
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bradley & Lorraine James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
Subscribe Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Model A Heads |
Jim Hammond of Yellow Springs, OH flies one. it was up
at oshkosh this year. he slapped it an because the
aluminum head cracked. he gets no rpm or horsepower.
it is not reccomended. his air camper is single seat
until he gets a new head. he told me that he plans to
buy a new aluminum head and mill it out to 5.9/1.
hope that helps you out.
Dan Badger
IHA#111
--- DonanClara(at)aol.com wrote:
> Is anyone in the group flyng an "A" powered Piet
> using the Bumfield Standard
> head (cast iron, 5.9-1 compression...not the Super
> head) or know anyone who
> is. I just wanted to get some idea about its good or
> bad points. I' m not
> really interested in the aluminum heads with less
> weight and higher
> compression that are currently on the market
> Don Hicks
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Great day to work on the Piet in the NE |
After working my standard 6 day week, It's nice to have a rainy day IF
you want to be in the shop working on the AirCamper, without thinking
that you are missing something.
walts Pietenpol factory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Great day to work on the Piet in the NE |
Walt, there is one thing better than working on the Air Camper. That's
flying one. It was windy and bumpy here in Iowa but I had a ball. My
son was following me around in his Cessna 150 from airport to airport.
He said at 4500 feet it was smooth. At 2500 feet I would freeze, so, I
stayed at 300 feet and took the beating I deserved. I don't know how
much longer the good weather will last, but I know I'm not ready to put
mine up for winter yet. Good Luck on your building and hope to fly with
you all at Brodhead.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 4:51 PM
Subject: Great day to work on the Piet in the NE
After working my standard 6 day week, It's nice to have a rainy day
IF you want to be in the shop working on the AirCamper, without thinking
that you are missing something.
walts Pietenpol factory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Great day for a beating |
Tim wrote:
>>My son was following me around in his Cessna 150
from airport to airport.
Tim;
Can a Cessna fly that slow? or was he flying
circles around you???
BT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gumper
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 10:10 PM
Subject: Fw: piper wings
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gumper
To: piet(at)byu.edc
Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 9:47 PM
Subject: piper wings
In reference to John Grega's plans for GN-1, concerning the weight and
balance page of his plans, he refers to the Aerodynamic Center of
Airfoil for J-3 wings only. Does anyone know what he is referring to?
Did he build his plane with Piper wings? Has anyone used Piper wings?
If so, I would like to hear from them. S.D.G. sd0279(at)fidnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
Larry,
Funny you say that. I am.
Tted
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 11:14 PM
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
> Ted
>
> I think the answer is......Build a Pietenpol!! ;-)
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I would like to learn about propeller building. either
wood carved or if anybody knows of any plans built
adjustable prop available. I'm a machinest by trade,
so am able to do some machining and balancing. are the
3 and 4 blade props designed for the higher rpm
engines? or what are the advantages? has anybody
purchased the plans from gary mcgill to build a prop
carving machine.
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bert & Nancy Conoly <conolys(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Great day to work on the Piet in the NE |
I Heard That!!!
Been a rainy weekend hear in S Ga/N Florida. Finally got a chance to
get some things accomplished.
Have a good week all! Back top the grind again tomorrow SIGH!
Wheels down and Wings Level!
Bert
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 5:51 PM
Subject: Great day to work on the Piet in the NE
After working my standard 6 day week, It's nice to have a rainy day
IF you want to be in the shop working on the AirCamper, without thinking
that you are missing something.
walts Pietenpol factory
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Portland Pietenpols? |
Exploring the idea of building a Pietenpol, I am new to this list and
want to locate any planes and builders in the Portland, Oregon area. If
there is any of you out there, please contact me at sylph(at)uswest.net.
Thank you
Michael
Portland, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Top of Vertical Stabilizer |
That's what we did. The gussets on each sde have to extend over enough
onto the verticle pieces to allow adequate strength. It's really very
strong.
John Langston
writes:
>How did you guys do the top of the vertical stabilizer? Plans show
>the
>leading edge and beam coming up but not meeting. Plywood gusset
>covers what
>I suppose is a solid piece of spruce, routed over to match the leading
>edge.
> Butt joint to leading edge OK here?
>
>Thanks,
>Joe
>
>
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
Not that I know of. These struts were thought of by someone to replace
the fore and aft cross wires between the cabane struts to allow easier
entry into the front cockpit. We plan on installing those wires for test
flying until we get the trim right by moving the wing back and forth.
Then make and install the diagonal strut.
John Langston
writes:
>Is there any information on wooden lift struts available?. Also
>looking at the plans, I dont see any info on the diagonal streamlined
>tubes that connect the upper engine mount fittings to the top of the
>fwd center struts. Could someone tell me if this is shown on any of
>the drawings.
>Gary
>Frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: chrome-moly steel |
4130 and 1025 are both classified as mild steels which is a term that
seperates it from more exotic steels, some of which aren't so exotic
anymore, like stainless steel. 4130 can be easily welded to 1025 and you
can't really tell the difference between the two while welding .
The last two digits refer to the carbon content and are an indication
of strength. When I went to A&P school 31 years ago, we were told that
the minumum that could be used in aircraft was 1025, but I have since
learned that some non-structural support members in a J-3 are made of
1010 steel.
Although 4130 is substantially stronger than 1025, its main reason for
being used is because of its corrosion resistant characteristics. This
doesn't mean it can't rust; it certainly will if it's not properly cared
for.
Mooney Aircraft introduced the 252 in 1986 and there arose a problem
with the windows leaking, allowing water to soak the insulation. Because
there was no air movement or ventilation behind the upholstery, and
because the old style insulation can hold an unbelieveable amount of
water, one of the original 252's which has a 4130 steel cage in the
cockpit area had severe corrosion of these tubes only six months after
delivery. The plane had to be demated and the sides removed to replace
the corroded tubes. Mooney, of course, was sued over this and has since
issued a service bulletin calling for the replacement of the insulation
and regular inspections of the window seals, the tubular frame, and the
wing centersection lower splice plates. It is seldom to find a late
model Mooney that doesn't need some window resealing done during annual
inspections.
John Langston
writes:
>>Gary:
>> Your statement:
>>
>>>Chrome-molly steel is about four times the tensile strength of SAE
>>1025 >steel. It's properties are toughness and wear resistance. Ref.
>>A&P Tech >gen textbook. I would not use standard steel on any flight
>>control system.
>>
>>
>> Is very misleading. Standard tensile strength of 4130 chrome
>moly
>>steel is 90,000 PSI. Mild steel is normally about 60,000 PSI. My
>>math says that the difference is 50%, not 400%.
>
>I am another Gary but:
>
>
>1025 is not the same as mild steel
>
>mild steel is 1018.
>
>I am not sure of this but is something that has to do with the amount
>of
>carbon and strenth...
>
>Saludos
>
>Gary Gower
>
>
__________
________________________________________________________________________________
GOOD IDEA!
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: lift struts
>Not that I know of. These struts were thought of by someone to replace
>the fore and aft cross wires between the cabane struts to allow easier
>entry into the front cockpit. We plan on installing those wires for test
>flying until we get the trim right by moving the wing back and forth.
>Then make and install the diagonal strut.
>
>John Langston
>
> writes:
>>Is there any information on wooden lift struts available?. Also
>>looking at the plans, I dont see any info on the diagonal streamlined
>>tubes that connect the upper engine mount fittings to the top of the
>>fwd center struts. Could someone tell me if this is shown on any of
>>the drawings.
>>Gary
>>Frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: CONTROL COLUMN DIMENSIONS |
Thanks for the information. That will take away much of the guess work. Bart
> ----------
> From: Lawrence V Williams[SMTP:lnawms(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 8:30 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: CONTROL COLUMN DIMENSIONS
>
>
>
> writes:
> >Just starting to build the control column. Can anyone tell me the
> >clearance required between the bottom of the control stick and the top
> >of the 7/8 inch dia torque tube? Need this info to properly size the
> >attachment fittings that get welded to the bottom of the control
> >stick. Also, how much clearance is required between the bottom of
> >the pulleys and the top of the torque tube. Thanks, Bart
> >Bart D Conrad
> >Boeing Field Service
> >DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
> >Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
> >Fax: 713-640-5891
> >Pager: 713-318-1625
>
> Bart
>
> My dimension from the bottom of the stick to the top of the torque tube
> is 7/8" and at it's extreme throw it clears the elevator nicely.
>
> The pulleys should be mounted as closely as possible to the torque tube
> without toucing. I actually had to mill off just a little on one of mine
> because it was touching the torque tube!
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GIVING UP THE LIST |
HI FOLKS,
Steve E. here. I created this list 4 years ago and now it has grown beyond
my ability to keep it up. If anyone is interested in taking it over please
let me know. I am spending too much time each day keeping up with the
Sub/unsub requests. Would like to move it off in a couple of weeks...
Best Regards,
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Copinfo <Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Great day for a beating |
Bill, a Cessna 150 will fly formation at 70 MPH but not very easy. My son
used 20 degrees of flaps and just a little rudder for turns. Mostly he got
to the airports before me or made each trip longer than mine. It's a ball
flying together. Especially having someone else flip the prop. Happy
flying.
Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.Com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 5:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Great day for a beating
>Tim wrote:
>>>My son was following me around in his Cessna 150
>from airport to airport.
>
>Tim;
>Can a Cessna fly that slow? or was he flying
>circles around you???
>
>BT
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GIVING UP THE LIST |
Steve
You could move it over to ListBot. It will take care of itself their.
Subscribing and Unsubscribing is easy enough for the members to handle
on ListBot.
Gordon Brimhall
IHA#02
----- Original Message -----
>From:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GIVING UP THE LIST
> HI FOLKS,
>
> Steve E. here. I created this list 4 years ago and now it has grown
beyond
> my ability to keep it up. If anyone is interested in taking it over
please
> let me know. I am spending too much time each day keeping up with the
> Sub/unsub requests. Would like to move it off in a couple of weeks...
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Eldredge
> IT Services
> Brigham Young University
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Grant's web site has a notation about wooden lift struts, including a
drawing of the cross section. It uses a plywood center section, laminated on
both sides and on each end with spruce, and is then shaped. It would seem
that a router table could make this an easy piece of work.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
A photo would be worth a 1001 words...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent along
something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions too.
He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent it
over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29 a 5
pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in Florida,
that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength would
be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer, I
would say it is plenty strong.
Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
Ted Brousseau
Naples, FL
Flying a GN-1
Building a Pietenpol/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Check out the last issue of Experimenter Magazine for strut ideas.I used
the streamline aluminum struts from Carlson aircraft only $45. for a 10
foot length of 6061.
Doug
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: lift struts
> Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 10:34 AM
>
> Grant's web site has a notation about wooden lift struts, including a
> drawing of the cross section. It uses a plywood center section,
laminated on
> both sides and on each end with spruce, and is then shaped. It would
seem
> that a router table could make this an easy piece of work.
> Cheers,
> Warren.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
writes:
>Larry,
>
>Funny you say that. I am.
>
>Ted
I know. That's why I had the nerve to say that!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Aluminum Lift Struts |
Doug,
Go to
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
for the website for these. They do look great, and the price is good
too.
Doug wrote:
> Check out the last issue of Experimenter Magazine for strut ideas.I
> used the streamline aluminum struts from Carlson aircraft only $45.
> for a 10 foot length of 6061.
> Doug
> ----------
> > From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Subject: Re: lift struts
> > Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 10:34 AM
> >
> > Grant's web site has a notation about wooden lift struts,
> including a
> > drawing of the cross section. It uses a plywood center section,
> laminated on
> > both sides and on each end with spruce, and is then shaped. It
> would seem
> > that a router table could make this an easy piece of work.
> > Cheers,
> > Warren.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve wrote:
Please post Grants website for me?
Thanks
Steve
writes:
> Grant's web site has a notation about wooden lift struts,
> including a
> drawing of the cross section. It uses a plywood center section,
> laminated on
> both sides and on each end with spruce, and is then shaped. It
> would seem
> that a router table could make this an easy piece of work.
> Cheers,
> Warren.
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
#6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | RE: (no subject) |
((Stuff Deleted))
-lay out the fuse sides as outlined on the
plans and when it comes to inserting the cross-members, they will fall
naturally into place if you will keep all dimensions per the original to
the aft seatback.
((More stuff Deleted))
I don't have the supplemental plans yet but I thought they were supposed to
allow more leg room for the pilot. From your description it sounds like the
cockpit is the same on the long and short piet. Could you enlighten me?
Marc Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
I am planning on making my own lift struts using the 1/4 plywood center. What
is used to sandwich the plywood? Ash? Spruce? I have enough left over from the
fuselage floor to make a set. thanks, bart
Bart D Conrad
Boeing Field Service
DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc
Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192
Fax: 713-640-5891
Pager: 713-318-1625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Grant's Piet Website |
Hi Steve,
go to
http://users.aol.com/BPANews/www.html
and click on the BPA Newsletters Items. You will find many interesting
items from past newsletters, among them, the item on wooden lift struts.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose High Attitude |
By the plans the cabine struts are not suppose to be the same length. The
front ones are 3/4 in shorter than the rear ones. I wondered about this
while building and now I see why they are shorter. I built to plans and
sure hope mine doesn't fly nose high. jas
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Saturday, October 09, 1999 6:35 PM
>Subject: Re: Nose High Attitude
>
>Mike, my cabanes are the same length on my GN. All you need to do is tape
>some bricks to the top of the engine cowling:o) Seriously though, if you
>go to a wooden prop, (I think you have a metal prop now), you're situation
>may be further enhanced.
>Robert Hensarling
>http://www.mesquite-furniture.com
>rhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.com
>Uvalde, Texas
>
>
>>Larry,
>>
>>Good point. I have aerial pictures of the plane from
>>previous owners and it looked a little nose high
>>in cruise.
>>
>>Next time I am at the airport, I will measure the cabanes
>>and report back.
>>
>>I am a little over 200 pounds....had my duffle bag of
>>clothes in the front cockpit and the 12 gal fuel tank
>>full on take off. It seemed to me the nose got a little
>>higher on my cross country trip as the gas burned off.
>>
>>I have often wondered if the the PIETS and GN-1s
>>were designed to fly a little nose high in level cruise
>>flight.
>>
>>Thanks for the input.
>>
>>Mike
>>Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>My GN-1 Aircamper has an A-80 and metal
>>>>cruise prop. It also has a nose high attitude.
>>>>
>>>>When flying it on my last 400 mile cross country
>>>>trip, I was constantly dropping the nose every
>>>>once in a while for forward visibility and/or kicking
>>>>the rudder from side to side.
>>>>
>>>>Are all PIETS and GN-1s a little nose high while
>>>>in level flight? If not, what can I do to lower the
>>>>nose and maintain level flight?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.....
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>I know the Breusseau (sp?) GN-1 at B'head flew the same way and it was
>>>discovered that all of his cabane struts were the same length. That
>>>effectively put the fuselage in a nose-high attitude when the wing was at
>>>the proper angle of attack to maintain flight. From the ground it always
>>>looked like it was on the verge of a stall!
>>>
>>>So- check out your angle of incidence, decalage, and CG.
>>>
>>>Larry
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: GIVING UP THE LIST |
I can vouch for the Listbot service, the new Christavia list is being
hosted by them. They do maintain a web based archive, but I'm not sure how
far back it will go. It is very fast and can accomodate a fairly high mail
load, I doubt if the Piet list will exceed it's capabilities.
Ken.
On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Gordon Brimhall wrote:
> Steve
>
> You could move it over to ListBot. It will take care of itself their.
> Subscribing and Unsubscribing is easy enough for the members to handle
> on ListBot.
>
> Gordon Brimhall
>
> IHA#02
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 7:18 AM
> Subject: GIVING UP THE LIST
>
>
> > HI FOLKS,
> >
> > Steve E. here. I created this list 4 years ago and now it has grown
> beyond
> > my ability to keep it up. If anyone is interested in taking it over
> please
> > let me know. I am spending too much time each day keeping up with the
> > Sub/unsub requests. Would like to move it off in a couple of weeks...
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Steve Eldredge
> > IT Services
> > Brigham Young University
> >
> >
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GIVING UP THE LIST |
We have 120 plus members on our IHA List at Listbot, Turnaround here in
Calif is about 4 seconds. It has a archive you can set up.
We just opened up two more lists on ListBot for IHA's Aeroplane design and
Engine Design stuff.
Howard is maintaining the Lists and I am doing the IHA Website plus other
duties in the Steering Committee.
We are all pretty busy these days.
If you need any help just let me know.
Thanks
Gordon Brimhall
IHA#02
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 7:02 PM
| Subject: | Re: GIVING UP THE LIST |
> I can vouch for the Listbot service, the new Christavia list is being
> hosted by them. They do maintain a web based archive, but I'm not sure how
> far back it will go. It is very fast and can accomodate a fairly high mail
> load, I doubt if the Piet list will exceed it's capabilities.
>
> Ken.
>
> On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Gordon Brimhall wrote:
>
> > Steve
> >
> > You could move it over to ListBot. It will take care of itself their.
> > Subscribing and Unsubscribing is easy enough for the members to handle
> > on ListBot.
> >
> > Gordon Brimhall
> >
> > IHA#02
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To: Pietenpol Discussion
> > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 7:18 AM
> > Subject: GIVING UP THE LIST
> >
> >
> > > HI FOLKS,
> > >
> > > Steve E. here. I created this list 4 years ago and now it has grown
> > beyond
> > > my ability to keep it up. If anyone is interested in taking it over
> > please
> > > let me know. I am spending too much time each day keeping up with the
> > > Sub/unsub requests. Would like to move it off in a couple of weeks...
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Steve Eldredge
> > > IT Services
> > > Brigham Young University
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I have heard that stainless steel isn't as strong as regular carbon steel.
Something about "it's easier to fatigue","developes cracks".
Several years ago, while hanging around the local sport shop, a fellow
brought in his brand new Ruger 44 Mag Super Redhawlk revolver.
He'd fired the first shot all right, but on firing the second, something
flashed down range, and the handgun got suddenly lighter.
He had shot the barrel off. The secound round of 44 mag ammo, had caused the
barrel to break off at the threads, where the barrel screws into the frame.
He held the gun in two big pieces.
Gun was stainless steel. I suspect that a carbon steel pistol wouldn't have
done that.
Still though, one in a million.
Bob
>From: "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: RE: shackles
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:45:25 -0700
>
>
>A photo would be worth a 1001 words...
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent along
>something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions too.
>He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent it
>over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29 a 5
>pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in
>Florida,
>that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength would
>be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer, I
>would say it is plenty strong.
>Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
>Ted Brousseau
>Naples, FL
>Flying a GN-1
>Building a Pietenpol/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I've been on the RV list for a couple years and only recently took
another look at the Pietenpol. Matt Dralle does an excellent job with a
growing number of aviation related lists. If he would be so kind as to
add the Pietenpol list to his e-mail hanger, I think it would be great.
The archive function is extremely valuable to any builder.
Now, what are some engines and weights of those of you already flying?
Thanks,
Michael
sylph(at)uswest.net
Portland, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
where did everybody go? what about the fuel tanks I
asked about the other day. explosion proofing the tank
with foam. using a molding plastic crushable car
racing fuel cell. anybody? is this list dead? is
everybody on vacation?
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Del,
Have worked around NASCAR pits a time or two, so will pass along
some opinions on your questions.
All of your suggestions will work....however....unless you have some
parts room contacts, you are talking about some serious high dollar
items.
While these are crash proof products are great, compare the roll
cage on a today's NASCAR to your Piet. My point being, that while the
tank might survive, if you hit hard enough to need the explosion proof
tank, you probably won't be around to enjoy your good judgment.
Foam fillers have had some fine grain deterioration problems over
time, and have ended up causing fuel line clogging. The time frame
depends on the type of foam and the type of fuel. Aviation fuel is
pretty consistent at all times of the year and at all geographical
locations. Auto fuel changes with the seasons, due to temperature
changes and attempts to avoid vapor lock type problems. These additives
can have a rather accelerated effect on foam.
The EAA library has some articles on this issue. While I can not
provide you with the specific dates and titles, I would suggest that you
contact them and get the reprints on the subject.
Cheers,
Warren
del magsam wrote:
> where did everybody go? what about the fuel tanks I
> asked about the other day. explosion proofing the tank
> with foam. using a molding plastic crushable car
> racing fuel cell. anybody? is this list dead? is
> everybody on vacation?
>
> =====
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Question regarding aileron construction. Plans state "completely finish
aileron before cutting free of wing". To me that implies:
1. You build your 1/2" aileron beams in prior to cutting free. If so, the
plans look like they have a 1/4" strip on the top and bottom of the beams to
close the gap between the capstrips. This 1/4" strip is installed in
sections between the capstrips and not one continuous strip the length of
the beam? Otherwise, how can you only glue the first 1/4" of the capstrip
to the beam?
2. You must have the hinges you will use on hand in order to determine the
gap you will need at the aileron attachment point. Trimming later won't be
possible since it would require shaving the whole beam.
3. There is no full size aileron horn pattern so the angle for the aileron
beam must be determined by the horn dimensions and/or by setting the bottom
of the aileron beam the required 1 1/4" aft of the wing aileron beam. Need
to make sure that later building of the horn matches the beam angle or if I
order them, I should get them before building ailerons.
Is that a nod I hear???
Thanks,
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
del magsam wrote:
> where did everybody go?
with the BPA newsletter fallen by the wayside and now Steve's reluctance
(and I sure can appreciate his reasons) to continue this site, maybe
we're just sitting back and recovering from the shock...
what about it ? I know someone was trying to contact Grant Mc. to
arrange take-over of the newsletter,,has anyone heard from Grant lately
regarding this??
regards
Joe C
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
I'm wondering if we can help with Steve's problems and he won't have to
let go. I belong to the RV list also and most of the maintence is done
automatically by the software on that list.
GY
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 1:05 PM
Subject: recovery
del magsam wrote:
where did everybody go?
with the BPA newsletter fallen by the wayside and now Steve's
reluctance (and I sure can appreciate his reasons) to continue this
site, maybe we're just sitting back and recovering from the shock...
what about it ? I know someone was trying to contact Grant Mc. to
arrange take-over of the newsletter,,has anyone heard from Grant lately
regarding this??
regards
Joe C
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ListBot for Piet Group? |
I've been over on the IHA list for a couple of days now, and it is very
active, and seems to work the same as our Piet list. I did unsubscribe from
it today because I'm looking for more Pietenpol specific information than
what I was getting over there. If you haven't decided on a homebuilt to
build, then the IHA list looks like a great place to pick up information on
anything out there, especially engine conversions.
I guess my point is that we do need to keep a separate Pietenpol list
going, because we're quickly losing all of our support for our beloved
birds, and some of us have only just started building our rib-jig! Anyone
out there have any list experience that might be willing to take this on? Us
new builders are gonna need lots of help!!!
For Gordon Brimhall: Is a ListBot group really that easy to maintain? If
it's a low-time, no-brainer maybe one us guys could make it work and keep
the group going, and not eat up our time like Steve was having to put up
with.
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ListBot for Piet Group? |
Gary
So far it seems to be working fine. easy to set up by anybody who can type a
message or push Enter.
List manager can set it to archive, to manage members on list, remove
trouble makers if so desired (watch it Warren) and I think it might be your
answer to a small problem. Gary you as a new builder would do good to start
it as you will be around for years building your Nice Bird.
If you wanted to do it let me know if you need any help.
Were going strong as you say. Just looked at IHA web site 2231 hits sinse
Sept 28th and 270 some members have signed up, we have 14 members on the
temp board wacking out all that board stuff so this Org will out live all of
us.One member from Pakastan (Hope he is OK)
Thanks
Gordon Brimhall
IHA#02
WebMaster
COB
http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 2:24 PM
| Subject: | ListBot for Piet Group? |
> I've been over on the IHA list for a couple of days now, and it is very
> active, and seems to work the same as our Piet list. I did unsubscribe
from
> it today because I'm looking for more Pietenpol specific information than
> what I was getting over there. If you haven't decided on a homebuilt to
> build, then the IHA list looks like a great place to pick up information
on
> anything out there, especially engine conversions.
>
> I guess my point is that we do need to keep a separate Pietenpol list
> going, because we're quickly losing all of our support for our beloved
> birds, and some of us have only just started building our rib-jig! Anyone
> out there have any list experience that might be willing to take this on?
Us
> new builders are gonna need lots of help!!!
>
> For Gordon Brimhall: Is a ListBot group really that easy to maintain?
If
> it's a low-time, no-brainer maybe one us guys could make it work and keep
> the group going, and not eat up our time like Steve was having to put up
> with.
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
thanks warren.
I guess I was under the impression that many people
survive the crash, but not the fire. As was the case
in our town 2 yrs ago when an instructer and his
student flew into a house. they were crawling away
when they were ingulfed in flames. the prices for the
tank are $311. the foam is $50 if you want to build
your own tank. the weight for their tank is 18 lbs for
12 gallon tank. there was a very good article in the
last issue of kitplane about safety features in
homebuilts.
--- Warren Shoun wrote:
> Hi Del,
> Have worked around NASCAR pits a time or two, so
> will pass along
> some opinions on your questions.
> All of your suggestions will
> work....however....unless you have some
> parts room contacts, you are talking about some
> serious high dollar
> items.
> While these are crash proof products are great,
> compare the roll
> cage on a today's NASCAR to your Piet. My point
> being, that while the
> tank might survive, if you hit hard enough to need
> the explosion proof
> tank, you probably won't be around to enjoy your
> good judgment.
> Foam fillers have had some fine grain
> deterioration problems over
> time, and have ended up causing fuel line clogging.
> The time frame
> depends on the type of foam and the type of fuel.
> Aviation fuel is
> pretty consistent at all times of the year and at
> all geographical
> locations. Auto fuel changes with the seasons, due
> to temperature
> changes and attempts to avoid vapor lock type
> problems. These additives
> can have a rather accelerated effect on foam.
> The EAA library has some articles on this issue.
> While I can not
> provide you with the specific dates and titles, I
> would suggest that you
> contact them and get the reprints on the subject.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> del magsam wrote:
>
> > where did everybody go? what about the fuel tanks
> I
> > asked about the other day. explosion proofing the
> tank
> > with foam. using a molding plastic crushable car
> > racing fuel cell. anybody? is this list dead? is
> > everybody on vacation?
> >
> > =====
> >
>
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
There is Stainless steel and then there is stainless steel! 316 is one
of the best. We use it in high stress situations in boats. These
metals have high levels of alloying metals to change their qualities.
316, for instance has 16 to 18% chromimum to increase its resistance to
corrosion and 10 to 14% nickle for toughness and strength.
The rub comes in fabrication. Anything that interferes with the
stainless's ability to form a protective coating of corrosion on its
self can be problem. Stainless is very suseptable to cloride stress
corrosion. The smallest scratch or crack will allow corrosive agents to
enter. If the part is under stress, vibrates or beds, the corrostion
will move deeper and deeper. The resulting crystalized corossion failure
is often mistaken for a fatgue failure. Usually when the stainless part
fails, the surface still looks shiny. It's insideous.
If you are going to use stainless, Make your bends before you drill any
holes, to avoid stress localization at the edge of the hole. Ease all
edges, round all corners (especially inside corners) and polish all
surfaces. These cautions are just as valid for 4130 chromemoly steel
too, even though it's not as susceptable to deveoping cracks.
Lauren
mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury
MTS v1.44 (NDS))
I have heard that stainless steel isn't as strong as regular carbon steel.
Something about "it's easier to fatigue","developes cracks".
Several years ago, while hanging around the local sport shop, a fellow
brought in his brand new Ruger 44 Mag Super Redhawlk revolver.
He'd fired the first shot all right, but on firing the second, something
flashed down range, and the handgun got suddenly lighter.
He had shot the barrel off. The secound round of 44 mag ammo, had caused the
barrel to break off at the threads, where the barrel screws into the frame.
He held the gun in two big pieces.
Gun was stainless steel. I suspect that a carbon steel pistol wouldn't have
done that.
Still though, one in a million.
Bob
>From: "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: RE: shackles
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:45:25 -0700
>
>
>A photo would be worth a 1001 words...
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent along
>something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions too.
>He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent it
>over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29 a 5
>pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in
>Florida,
>that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength would
>be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer, I
>would say it is plenty strong.
>Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
>Ted Brousseau
>Naples, FL
>Flying a GN-1
>Building a Pietenpol/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
We all just went through a two week, intense fuel tank discussion just
before you joined the list. We're all fuel tanked up to the ears. Check
the arcives.
Lauren
mailsorter-101-2.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-d/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) with
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury MTS v1.44 (NDS)) (via Mercury
MTS v1.44 (NDS))
where did everybody go? what about the fuel tanks I
asked about the other day. explosion proofing the tank
with foam. using a molding plastic crushable car
racing fuel cell. anybody? is this list dead? is
everybody on vacation?
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I forgot to bookmark the web site for IHA,could
someone give me that address again
thanks
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Del,
I think that you are on the right track regarding surviving the
crash, only to have a fuel spill start a fire. I am certainly no post
crash expert, however, the fuel line, connectors and how the tank is
mounted is at least as important to fuel spills as an actual tank
rupture. And of course, having sense enough to turn the master switch
off just prior to touch down/impact.
Of the few crash fires that I personally have seen, the tanks
survived, but the fuel lines and/or connectors broke away and was the
source of the fuel which fed the initial fire. The most recent was a
Citabria, with a departure stall at the end of the runway. The crash
was clearly survivable, and yet when the right wing was pulled away from
the fuselage on impact, the fuel line spurted into the cockpit, with all
of the electricals still on, as the master had not been turned off. The
tank was not the problem. The pilot survived, but not in a condition
that I would want to look forward to. This was also completely
foolish.....high speed, ground hugging departure, with a swift pull up
at the end of the runway, into a stall, at something less than 400 feet
agl.
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 4:43 PM
> I forgot to bookmark the web site for IHA,could
> someone give me that address again
> thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Lift Struts |
Thats where i went when i bought mine .
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Aluminum Lift Struts |
Doug,
Go to
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
for the website for these. They do look great, and the price is good too.
Doug wrote:
Check out the last issue of Experimenter Magazine for strut ideas.I used
the streamline aluminum struts from Carlson aircraft only $45. for a 10
foot length of 6061.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>where did everybody go? what about the fuel tanks I
>asked about the other day. explosion proofing the tank
>with foam. using a molding plastic crushable car
>racing fuel cell. anybody? is this list dead? is
>everybody on vacation?
>
>=====
>
>Del
You're building a 1930's airplane made out of wood and covered with
fabric for crying out loud, so drop all the high-tech "gee whiz" stuff
and enjoy the ambiance, my friend.
Go to your local heating/air-conditioning shop, buy a sheet of 28 ga
galvanized & a big soldering iron and build yourself a tank. It'll cost
about $50 if you get a brand new filler neck and cap from A/C Spruce and
it'll be the neatest thing you've ever done. I'd be happy to lead you
through it step-by-step if you'd like (there aren't that many steps!) and
share what I've learned from my own experience.
Cheers,
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Leopold <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Larry:
I would like to hear about your experience building a fuel tank. I have
never built one but I can do sheetmetal work. I am also interested in
successful tank shapes for the piet.
Gary Frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David B. Schober" <dschober(at)mail.fscwv.edu> |
After machining any stainless, it should be passivated to protect it from
corrosion!
Lauren Williams wrote:
> There is Stainless steel and then there is stainless steel! 316 is one
> of the best. We use it in high stress situations in boats. These
> metals have high levels of alloying metals to change their qualities.
> 316, for instance has 16 to 18% chromimum to increase its resistance to
> corrosion and 10 to 14% nickle for toughness and strength.
>
> The rub comes in fabrication. Anything that interferes with the
> stainless's ability to form a protective coating of corrosion on its
> self can be problem. Stainless is very suseptable to cloride stress
> corrosion. The smallest scratch or crack will allow corrosive agents to
> enter. If the part is under stress, vibrates or beds, the corrostion
> will move deeper and deeper. The resulting crystalized corossion failure
> is often mistaken for a fatgue failure. Usually when the stainless part
> fails, the surface still looks shiny. It's insideous.
>
> If you are going to use stainless, Make your bends before you drill any
> holes, to avoid stress localization at the edge of the hole. Ease all
> edges, round all corners (especially inside corners) and polish all
> surfaces. These cautions are just as valid for 4130 chromemoly steel
> too, even though it's not as susceptable to deveoping cracks.
>
> Lauren
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: shackles
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
> From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
>
> I have heard that stainless steel isn't as strong as regular carbon steel.
> Something about "it's easier to fatigue","developes cracks".
>
> Several years ago, while hanging around the local sport shop, a fellow
> brought in his brand new Ruger 44 Mag Super Redhawlk revolver.
>
> He'd fired the first shot all right, but on firing the second, something
> flashed down range, and the handgun got suddenly lighter.
>
> He had shot the barrel off. The secound round of 44 mag ammo, had caused the
> barrel to break off at the threads, where the barrel screws into the frame.
>
> He held the gun in two big pieces.
>
> Gun was stainless steel. I suspect that a carbon steel pistol wouldn't have
> done that.
>
> Still though, one in a million.
>
> Bob
>
> >From: "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: RE: shackles
> >Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:45:25 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >A photo would be worth a 1001 words...
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >I bought some turnbuckles from our friend JoeC (fishin)and he sent along
> >something that he wanted my opinion on. I would like others' opinions too.
> >He sent a stamped stainless eye strap that is used on boats. He bent it
> >over and has a terrific looking shackle. Boat US sells them for $4.29 a 5
> >pack. Looks plenty strong and I can attest, as a sailboat owner in
> >Florida,
> >that the stainless will hold up quite well to the elements. Strength would
> >be the only question in my mind. Without being a structural engineer, I
> >would say it is plenty strong.
> >Just thought others might want to learn of Joe's creativity.
> >Ted Brousseau
> >Naples, FL
> >Flying a GN-1
> >Building a Pietenpol/
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
I made several attempts to contact Grant but got zero response. There could
be many reasons why he has not answered, but I can't help but think that he
has just folded the tent. Don H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
Well, I've finally actually started doing something constructive on my Piet
Project! I am working on the rib jig, and have the template laid out, and
all my blocks cut and drilled.
At the risk of bothering those who may have already seen this discussed
over and over, I'm gonna raise the issue again. In laying out my jig, I
noticed the area where the top of the rear spar and the top capstrip meet
there should be a tiny wedge, but on the template, the spar is shown with a
slight bevel.
I think some folks make up the rib and just remove some capstrip to make
it fit the squared spar, but I was wondering about just pushing the rear
spar down enough to make room for the wedge, thus moving the lower strip
down the same amount. I haven't measured it all out, but I get the feeling
that the lower capstrip may have not been positioned correctly on the
template, so It seems as though this would all work out.
Gordon: It sounds as though about all that's needed for the ListBot
service then, is someone to get the thing setup and then it pretty much runs
on autopilot? I guess I could do that, I'm sure I'll be around for a LONG
time, heck it's gonna take enough time just to get the rib jig together! If
it's low, and I mean LOW maintenance, then it wouldn't be too much of a
hassle, I guess......
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 10/12/99 12:29:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< 1. You build your 1/2" aileron beams in prior to cutting free. If so, the
plans look like they have a 1/4" strip on the top and bottom of the beams to
close the gap between the capstrips. This 1/4" strip is installed in
sections between the capstrips and not one continuous strip the length of
the beam? Otherwise, how can you only glue the first 1/4" of the capstrip
to the beam? >>
The 1/4" X 1/4" strips, BETWEEN the rib capstrips, go on the aileron beams
top & bottom to give the fabric a nice corner radius. After the ailerons are
cut free, the butt ends of the capstrips and the 1/4"X1/4" filler strips
should be finish sanded STRAIGHT with the gap and FLUSH with the surface of
the wing, top & bottom
<<2. You must have the hinges you will use on hand in order to determine the
gap you will need at the aileron attachment point. Trimming later won't be
possible since it would require shaving the whole beam.>>
Bend, prefit, and drill the holes for the 3" barn door hinges (before the
aileron is set free), and number them so, on final assembly, they will go
where they were prefit for. When you bend these hinges, make a nice uniform
radius of at least 1/8", so there will be no stress risers (small cracks) on
the outside of the bends. The location of the bends should be exactly the
same on all the hinges, so the centerline of the hinges all line up.
Discard the aluminum pin that comes with the hinge, and use AN hardware for
the hinge pin. I think it was a #8 machine screw that I used, with a long
enough shank to go all the way through the hinge, then cut the threads off,
and drilled for a 1/32" cotter pin. I also used AN cup washers under the
heads of the flush screw heads, and countersunk them (slightly...by hand with
a big drill bit) into the aileron beams, so the flange of the washer lays on
top of the wood, to spread the load of the screw head. I also used cup
washers (bigger size) under the heads of the aileron horn screws.
<<3. There is no full size aileron horn pattern so the angle for the aileron
beam must be determined by the horn dimensions and/or by setting the bottom
of the aileron beam the required 1 1/4" aft of the wing aileron beam. Need
to make sure that later building of the horn matches the beam angle or if I
order them, I should get them before building ailerons.>>
The bottom of the aileron beam is, as you said, set at 1 1/4", aft of the
wing aileron beam. The plans built horn will match this angle. Before you
rip this material (the 2 beams) on the table saw, make a few sample pieces,
and prefit the cut angles. These angles and widths are kinda tricky, and
must be uniform, and fit nicely to the rib capstrips.
Enjoy the building process, take your time and do it right (no matter how
many times it takes), and be proud of the finished product !!!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
Aviation Capital of the World
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pasley <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Franklin Engines |
Has anyone had any experience with Franklin Engines? My GN1 has a 65hp.
Franklin which seems O.K. However, we have very little time on it to
date. Now I have a an opportunity to buy, or trade for, a recently
overhauled 90hp. with metal prop, firewall forward.The price is right
and the engine was overhauled by the A&P owner/pilot for his plane. He
has found a bigger engine he wants for a replacement.
Comments? Thanks, Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Hi Joe,
Your point # 1 is correct. The Beams are installed prior to cutting the
aileron free. The capstrips are installed after the beams are in place.
Note that simply attaching 1/2" x 1/4" capstrips doesn't work. The
capstrips need bevels to match the angle of the beams and/or the contour of
the ribs. If you are using piano hinges, the mounting screws may end up in
the seam between the capstrip and the beam, so use good glue and make as
tight a joint as possible.
Your point # 2 is also correct. Piano hinges will result in the top of the
aileron spar being closer to the beam in the wing than the original barn
door hinges. It's not much different, but it does vary enough that the
angles are slightly different. The net result is a few degrees more aileron
travel (about 2 - 3 degrees).
Point # 3 deserves some discussion. I used the aileron horn patterns as
shown on the plans. I don't think the slight change in angle will affect
anything. The only possible change is to the angle the aileron cables make
with respect to the wing spars, and again, the change is only a few degrees.
I made my aileron pulley brackets to the plans and the cable angles are
acceptable (they are not perfectly in line with the pulley, but they are
close enough). I think I kept the bottom distance to the aileron spar at
1-1/4", and moved the top of the spar forward slightly to match the hinge
dimension. My piano hinges are flush with the top of the wing.
BTW, I am installing piano hinges the full span of the aileron, in 12"
sections. I originally only had two hinges per aileron, but as someone here
pointed out, if one lets go, I've lost the aileron. I decided the extra
weight would be more than made up for by increased safety and a sealed gap.
Hope this helps. It is fun to be able to play with the ailerons on the
completed wing. I've got mine rigged with string for the moment, and enjoy
moving them and seeing how smoothly those piano hinges work.
Jack Phillips
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Krzes [SMTP:jkrzes(at)hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 1:24 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Ailerons
>
> Question regarding aileron construction. Plans state "completely finish
> aileron before cutting free of wing". To me that implies:
>
> 1. You build your 1/2" aileron beams in prior to cutting free. If so, the
>
> plans look like they have a 1/4" strip on the top and bottom of the beams
> to
> close the gap between the capstrips. This 1/4" strip is installed in
> sections between the capstrips and not one continuous strip the length of
> the beam? Otherwise, how can you only glue the first 1/4" of the capstrip
>
> to the beam?
>
> 2. You must have the hinges you will use on hand in order to determine the
>
> gap you will need at the aileron attachment point. Trimming later won't
> be
> possible since it would require shaving the whole beam.
>
> 3. There is no full size aileron horn pattern so the angle for the aileron
>
> beam must be determined by the horn dimensions and/or by setting the
> bottom
> of the aileron beam the required 1 1/4" aft of the wing aileron beam.
> Need
> to make sure that later building of the horn matches the beam angle or if
> I
> order them, I should get them before building ailerons.
>
> Is that a nod I hear???
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Master switch? We don't need no stinking master switch!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Shoun [SMTP:wbnb(at)earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 7:33 PM
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Subject: Re: gas tanks
>
> Hi Del,
> I think that you are on the right track regarding surviving the
> crash, only to have a fuel spill start a fire. I am certainly no post
> crash expert, however, the fuel line, connectors and how the tank is
> mounted is at least as important to fuel spills as an actual tank
> rupture. And of course, having sense enough to turn the master switch
> off just prior to touch down/impact.
> Of the few crash fires that I personally have seen, the tanks
> survived, but the fuel lines and/or connectors broke away and was the
> source of the fuel which fed the initial fire. The most recent was a
> Citabria, with a departure stall at the end of the runway. The crash
> was clearly survivable, and yet when the right wing was pulled away from
> the fuselage on impact, the fuel line spurted into the cockpit, with all
> of the electricals still on, as the master had not been turned off. The
> tank was not the problem. The pilot survived, but not in a condition
> that I would want to look forward to. This was also completely
> foolish.....high speed, ground hugging departure, with a swift pull up
> at the end of the runway, into a stall, at something less than 400 feet
> agl.
> Warren.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | B and V Dearinger <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Franklin Engines |
You mite have to adjust the wing to get cg back going to a 90 and a
metal prop.The only disadvantage to a franklin is availability of parts
but you already know about that.The going price is usually less that
cont/lyc engines .Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Pasley <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net>
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 6:04 AM
Subject: Franklin Engines
Has anyone had any experience with Franklin Engines? My GN1 has a
65hp. Franklin which seems O.K. However, we have very little time on it
to date. Now I have a an opportunity to buy, or trade for, a recently
overhauled 90hp. with metal prop, firewall forward.The price is right
and the engine was overhauled by the A&P owner/pilot for his plane. He
has found a bigger engine he wants for a replacement.
Comments? Thanks, Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
Gary,
I think the bevel of the rear spar is due to the inside dimension of the
spar area of the capstrip is 4 3/4", but the aft dimension is slightly less!
This means that you don't need a wedge, you need to actually bevel the top
of the rear spar. I've even considered trimming the spar height by the
difference and using wedges, but leaning toward beveling the whole spar.
Whichever way I go, I plan on including pieces on the rib jig to represent
the spars to insure fit.
Joe
>From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Subject: Rib clearance on Rear Spar
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Well, I've finally actually started doing something constructive on my Piet
>Project! I am working on the rib jig, and have the template laid out, and
>all my blocks cut and drilled.
>
> At the risk of bothering those who may have already seen this discussed
>over and over, I'm gonna raise the issue again. In laying out my jig, I
>noticed the area where the top of the rear spar and the top capstrip meet
>there should be a tiny wedge, but on the template, the spar is shown with a
>slight bevel.
>
> I think some folks make up the rib and just remove some capstrip to make
>it fit the squared spar, but I was wondering about just pushing the rear
>spar down enough to make room for the wedge, thus moving the lower strip
>down the same amount. I haven't measured it all out, but I get the feeling
>that the lower capstrip may have not been positioned correctly on the
>template, so It seems as though this would all work out.
>
> Gordon: It sounds as though about all that's needed for the ListBot
>service then, is someone to get the thing setup and then it pretty much
>runs
>on autopilot? I guess I could do that, I'm sure I'll be around for a LONG
>time, heck it's gonna take enough time just to get the rib jig together! If
>it's low, and I mean LOW maintenance, then it wouldn't be too much of a
>hassle, I guess......
>
>Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
Oops
Hi Joe
Looks like an official Pietenpol list to me.
Got to run, got 50 Steering Commettee messages to process.
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 6:51 AM
| Subject: | Re: Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
> Gary,
> I think the bevel of the rear spar is due to the inside dimension of the
> spar area of the capstrip is 4 3/4", but the aft dimension is slightly
less!
> This means that you don't need a wedge, you need to actually bevel the
top
> of the rear spar. I've even considered trimming the spar height by the
> difference and using wedges, but leaning toward beveling the whole spar.
> Whichever way I go, I plan on including pieces on the rib jig to represent
> the spars to insure fit.
>
> Joe
>
>
> >From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >To: Pietenpol Discussion
> >Subject: Rib clearance on Rear Spar
> >Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Well, I've finally actually started doing something constructive on my
Piet
> >Project! I am working on the rib jig, and have the template laid out, and
> >all my blocks cut and drilled.
> >
> > At the risk of bothering those who may have already seen this discussed
> >over and over, I'm gonna raise the issue again. In laying out my jig, I
> >noticed the area where the top of the rear spar and the top capstrip meet
> >there should be a tiny wedge, but on the template, the spar is shown with
a
> >slight bevel.
> >
> > I think some folks make up the rib and just remove some capstrip to
make
> >it fit the squared spar, but I was wondering about just pushing the rear
> >spar down enough to make room for the wedge, thus moving the lower strip
> >down the same amount. I haven't measured it all out, but I get the
feeling
> >that the lower capstrip may have not been positioned correctly on the
> >template, so It seems as though this would all work out.
> >
> > Gordon: It sounds as though about all that's needed for the ListBot
> >service then, is someone to get the thing setup and then it pretty much
> >runs
> >on autopilot? I guess I could do that, I'm sure I'll be around for a LONG
> >time, heck it's gonna take enough time just to get the rib jig together!
If
> >it's low, and I mean LOW maintenance, then it wouldn't be too much of a
> >hassle, I guess......
> >
> >Gary Meadows
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
Hey Joe,
I see what you mean, I thought about actually taking the plan measurments
and laying out the rib using that, but man that looks like work! I think
some of the folks were just notching the underside of the rib and sliding it
onto the square-edge spar. I guess there's more than one way to skin a cat,
(or a Piet)! I imagine that it probably isn't going to make any real
difference how you do it, I can't imagine it making much difference in the
performance/strength of the plane, your way sounds fine to me! It is odd why
the template would be different from the plans, though...
Have you started your project yet? I found a piece of 3/4 Birch plywood
that was leftover from a store remodelling near Kuykendahl and 1960, and so
I'm using that.
Thanks for the info.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Culpepper VA |
>Mike C.
>
>Are you still going to Culpepper tomarrow?
>
>Craig
>
Sorry Craig for the late response but I took last Friday off.
Unfortunately the weather here was almost zero zero most of
Sat. and Sun. Would have liked to.
Good to hear from you !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
I woulk like to be taken off of the Piet mailing list please. Thank you for
your help in this matter.
Brett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Franklin Engines |
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Larry Pasley wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with Franklin Engines? My GN1 has a 65hp.
> Franklin which seems O.K. However, we have very little time on it to
> date. Now I have a an opportunity to buy, or trade for, a recently
> overhauled 90hp. with metal prop, firewall forward.The price is right
> and the engine was overhauled by the A&P owner/pilot for his plane. He
> has found a bigger engine he wants for a replacement. Comments? Thanks,
> Larry
>
Well, I just bought one of the 4A-235-B4 150 hp 4 cylinder engines for my
Christavia. It's of a later vintage than the 90 hp, but is probably based
on the same design. The one thing I have heard about them is that they are
the smoothest 4 cylender engines on the market due to the viscuous damped
flywheel in the rear. Parts for my engine are still being made today and
are relatively inexpensive. My engine will cost me about $7500 USD with
all accessories but that's O/H'd with mostly new parts and accessories. If
the price is right, I'd grab the 90 hp if I were you.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Franklin Engines |
A lot of parts are readily available from PZL. In fact, there is probably
better parts availability than the A-65. They don't make everything, but I
bet the majority of the parts are (case, crank, jugs, cam, etc). Also, if
it's like the 4A-235, you'll have the Continental style mounts on the case
and a strait substitution will be possible.
Ken
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, B and V Dearinger wrote:
> You mite have to adjust the wing to get cg back going to a 90 and a
> metal prop.The only disadvantage to a franklin is availability of parts
> but you already know about that.The going price is usually less that
> cont/lyc engines .Bill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Pasley <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net>
> To: Pietenpol Discussion
> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 6:04 AM
> Subject: Franklin Engines
>
>
> Has anyone had any experience with Franklin Engines? My GN1 has a 65hp. Franklin
which seems O.K. However, we have very little time on it to date. Now
I have a an opportunity to buy, or trade for, a recently overhauled 90hp. with
metal prop, firewall forward.The price is right and the engine was overhauled
by the A&P owner/pilot for his plane. He has found a bigger engine he wants for
a replacement.
> Comments? Thanks, Larry
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Sheets <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | List maintenance |
List:
I can surely see what SteveE is talking about. There seems to be several on
this list that must just "wander" into it and can't seem to get out. I get
on and off regularly when I go out of town, vacation, etc. with no problems.
Maybe a solution to the problem would be to make it a paid subscriber list
and that would eliminate the wanderers. It would be a little more work for
Steve in the beginning, but it might make it worth it for him to get gas
money (and smoke money). Just an idea - I sure hate to see Steve give it up;
he's VERY good at it and it works!
Doug Sheets
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: List maintenance |
Hi Doug,
I think that you have identified the problem exactly. Steve cannot be
expected to "baby-sit" the subscribe/unsubscribe procedure.
The procedure is so simple, and yet it does seem that it may need a "check
ride" requirement to get on the list.....maybe?
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | PIET LIST UPDATE |
I have been working with Matt Dralle, and have sent him a list of the
current subscribers to the list. He is going to set up the piet list to
live on an aviation list related server. I will not leave you guys high and
dry. The list will continue, and if the "adoption" of the list doesn't go
well, I will retrieve it and make another go of it. Stay tuned and I will
have the new mail address when the new list us up and running. Meantime,
keep sending here....
Your beloved listmeister,,
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Rib clearance on Rear Spar |
I laid out the rib and the spar using the dimensions in the 1933 plans
and
the spar is still an interference fit in the rib. I have the CAD file
if
anyone wants it. I plan on using a plotter to do a full size rib
template.
Marc Davis
-----------------------------------------------------
Hey Joe,
I see what you mean, I thought about actually taking the plan
measurments
and laying out the rib using that, but man that looks like work! I
think
some of the folks were just notching the underside of the rib and
sliding it
onto the square-edge spar. I guess there's more than one way to skin a
cat,
(or a Piet)! I imagine that it probably isn't going to make any real
difference how you do it, I can't imagine it making much difference in
the
performance/strength of the plane, your way sounds fine to me! It is
odd why
the template would be different from the plans, though...
Have you started your project yet? I found a piece of =BE Birch
plywood that
was leftover from a store remodelling near Kuykendahl and 1960, and so
I'm
using that.
Thanks for the info.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Aluminum Lift Struts |
Are you guys using this material as the strut of just at a strut faring? If
it's your strut how do you know it's strong enough?
Marc Davis
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug [SMTP:ve6zh(at)oanet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 4:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Lift Struts
Thats where i went when i bought mine .
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aluminum Lift Struts |
Doug,
Go to
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
<http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html >
for the website for these. They do look great, and the price is good too.
Doug wrote:
Check out the last issue of Experimenter Magazine for strut ideas.I used the
streamline aluminum struts from Carlson aircraft only $45. for a 10 foot
length of 6061.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Here is the poop on legroom in Piets:
The short fuselage is the 1933 Improved Air Camper
The long fuselage is the supplemental 1966 dated Air Camper
In the long fuselage Air Camper you get about 2" more legroom
in each cockpit, about 2" more to the firewall, and then about 4.5"
longer aft of the rear cockpit.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588)
with SMTP id" <01JHJSL28L668WXWUQ(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
| Subject: | TEst message to the new list |
This is a message to the new list!. If you got it your on the new list by
Matt Dralle!
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"RE: New Lists are Good to Go!" (Oct 25, 1:15pm)
| Subject: | Re: Sending Enclosures to the List... |
>--------------
>Hi Matt,
>
>Can users send attachments such as photos and drawings?
>
>Steve Eldredge
>IT Services
>Brigham Young University
>--------------
No, sorry... I have a detector for enclosures that will block them. There are
a lot of reasons for blocking enclosures to an email list. Size of the Archive
is the biggest one, keeping the archive search time to a minimum is another,
and the fact that MIME is not allow is another (Mime is generally used to
encode the enclosures). I have a open policy of freely put any photos or
drawings people might want to share on the FTP Server.
Another reason for blocking enclosures is the conservation of Network
bandwidth. Let's say that someone sends a 2mb enclosure to an email list with
200 people on it. 2Mb * 200 = 400Mb worth of outbound traffic! The RV-List,
for example, has 1500 people on it; that would be 3Gb (Yes, that's GIGABYTES)
of outbound traffic! Blocking enclosures makes a lot of sense when you think
of it that way...
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clay Spurgeon" <cspurgeon(at)baseballexp.com> |
Hey Group,
Curious if anyone has any experience with the Acey Deucey design.
Sort of a modernized Piet, designed by John Powell in the 70's. Same
layout but steel fuse and tail group. I've got a set of plans and its funny
because it seems that most of the mods that people talk about on the
Piet are on the Acey Deucey: center section cutout, stabilizer trim,
Frise (sp?) ailerons (gap seal issue), shoulder harness attachment, access
door for front cockpit, etc.........anyone ever seen/built/flown one?
Thanks,
Clay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Welcome to the New Email List Home! |
Hello Pietenpol and Tailwind Enthusiasts!
My name is Matt Dralle and I'm the owner of the Matronics Company, a
manufacture of a line of Fuel Flow Computers for aircraft. I'd like to
welcome you to the new home of the Pietenpol and Tailwind Email Lists.
As some of you have already discovered, there are some nifty things also
available here such as the Archive Search Engine and Archive browser not
to mention a whole hanger of other Aviation-related Email Lists. Please
feel free to subscribe to as many of the other Lists that you might
find interesting.
I strive to make the List operations here as smooth and clean as
possible and I spend many hours maintaining the Lists and associated web
sites. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to make your
subscription here a more enjoyable one.
When I'm not running Matronics and maintaining the Email Lists, I do find
time to work on my RV-4 project - an 11 year endeavor so far... But, as
with anything, the wait will be worth it and the anticipation will make
that first flight that much more sweet. I have a nice web site on the
current construction state and I welcome you to take a peek sometime.
The URL is:
http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4
Here are a few URLs of interest here at the Matronics site:
* Archive Search Engine
http://www.matronics.com/search
* Browse The Archives
http://www.matronics.com/archives
* Web Subscription Form
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
* Other Email Lists at Matronics
http://www.matronics.com/other
* Pietenpol-List Web Page
http://www.matronics.com/pietenpol-list
* Tailwind-List Web Page
http://www.matronics.com/tailwind-list
* Aircraft Fuel Computer Manufactured by Matronics
http://www.matronics.com/fuelscan
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
dralle(at)matronics.com
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve(at)byu.edu.by.EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588) |
| Subject: | Cold Turkey (Raw maybe?...) |
I know that yesterday I posted and said that we would run both list
concurrently for a week or so, but after rethinking and seeing that we were
getting a loop problem between the lists, I have shut down both the
piet(at)byu.edu and the tailwind(at)byu.edu lists. Sorry for the discomfort, but
straddling the fence is too confusing. Remember to post to the new
addresses:
The post-to email addresses for the two new Lists are:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
&
tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
and don't forget to check out the new features on the Matronics pages.
http://www.matronics.com/other.html
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Rocker Arms
>Ted,
> Mine was like DG said, both the same. Oil up pushrod "thru" rocker,
>lubing shaft, then on to spill out hole where it meets valve stem.
>While you are at it , have you ever checked the total clearance with the
>lifter compressed? This is a check that my mentor pointed out when I was
>rebuilding my A65. He said many AP's don't even check this and it can be
>the difference between a strong engine and a puny one. Mine was a
certified
>65 with 800 hours. Tore it down( didn't split the case) everything was in
>spec, except this. Guess because everything adds up as you build the cyl.
>assy, that this has to be checked, and adjusted by putting in longer or
>shorter pushrods.( easily available).
>I had three pushrod assys that were grossly out of spec. If gap too large,
>means that valve isn't opening enough when running.
>To do it,,,,
> pull off housing covers that cover lifters
> remove lifters Don't mix them up!!
> disassemble them ( with a twist) and clean with like carb cleaner.
>These have to stay empty during test.
> put them back in place ( lube system has to be empty, or else they
will
>refill when rotating engine)
> for ease of the check, assemble cyl on case with gasket and tighten
>enough to seat cyl "put"
> put in pushrods , rockers, shaft. ( leave tubes off at this time)
> now push down ( toward case) the rocker end on the rod, till the lifter
>bottoms
> measure the gap at the rocker/valve stem , clearance is in the book
(if
>you need it , I have it)
> By memory, I think the tol. is .030" to .110" three of mine were
about
>.150"
>I was doing the whole engine, so by switching parts around, mainly the
>rockers, I got it down to the three. Make sure at this time you mark all
>the parts to the cyl, for final assy
>walt evans
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ted Brousseau <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
>To: Pietenpol Discussion
>Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 11:48 PM
>Subject: Re: Rocker Arms
>
>
>>DG,
>>
>>Everything you say is true - in an ideal world. I have the manual. I
know
>>both rocker arms have the same number and are supposed to be alike. But,
>>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
There was a pretty good article in the last issue of
kitplanes addressing plane safety issues such as
shoulder straps, foam in fuel tanks, roll bars etc.
one item mentioned was that you could add a bullnose
to the front bottom fuselage edge. so if you had a
hard landing you have something to skid on if the
landing gear buckles, instead of digging in causing
sudden stops or turn overs. sounds to me like a good
inexpensive safety feature. comments?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Kitplane Safety Issues |
I looked at those with interest also. I followed an extensive thread on the
RV list about fuel tank foam and wasn't impressed. The other items, however
do sound workable and are under consideration. The roll bar translates to a
head rest in a Piet, and will vary with the size of the pilot. When I get
to that place in the building process, I will have made up mind about what
to do and how to do it.
Until then, I will be making notes about what others have done.
----- Original Message -----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
>
> There was a pretty good article in the last issue of
> kitplanes addressing plane safety issues such as
> shoulder straps, foam in fuel tanks, roll bars etc.
> one item mentioned was that you could add a bullnose
> to the front bottom fuselage edge. so if you had a
> hard landing you have something to skid on if the
> landing gear buckles, instead of digging in causing
> sudden stops or turn overs. sounds to me like a good
> inexpensive safety feature. comments?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
Testing, one, two, three
Am I just talking to myself, or can you hear me out there?
Only one Piet mail exchange now in three days.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Brimhall" <arkiesair(at)surfree.com> |
Tis a bit slow on this piet list.
Think all the old timers stayed on the other one.
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
From: Sylph <sylph(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
> Testing, one, two, three
>
> Am I just talking to myself, or can you hear me out there?
>
> Only one Piet mail exchange now in three days.
>
> Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Michael,
Hear you loud and clear.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Sylph <sylph(at)uswest.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
>Testing, one, two, three
>
>Am I just talking to myself, or can you hear me out there?
>
>Only one Piet mail exchange now in three days.
>
>Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Gordon,
Trouble is,,,there isn't another side anymore.
Just delete the address in your address book for Piet discussion,,,and put
in
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
and send as usual.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Brimhall <arkiesair(at)surfree.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
>Tis a bit slow on this piet list.
>
>Think all the old timers stayed on the other one.
>
>Gordon Brimhall
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Sylph <sylph(at)uswest.net>
>To: Pietenpol List
>Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 5:25 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
>
>>
>> Testing, one, two, three
>>
>> Am I just talking to myself, or can you hear me out there?
>>
>> Only one Piet mail exchange now in three days.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Brimhall" <arkiesair(at)surfree.com> |
Walter
I am not having any trouble with it. I deleted the old one the other day.
Where did all the others go. I am on the other piet list, not the old one.
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
> Gordon,
> Trouble is,,,there isn't another side anymore.
> Just delete the address in your address book for Piet discussion,,,and put
> in
> pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
> and send as usual.
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Brimhall <arkiesair(at)surfree.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
>
>
> >
> >Tis a bit slow on this piet list.
> >
> >Think all the old timers stayed on the other one.
> >
> >Gordon Brimhall
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Sylph <sylph(at)uswest.net>
> >To: Pietenpol List
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 5:25 PM
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Test
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Testing, one, two, three
> >>
> >> Am I just talking to myself, or can you hear me out there?
> >>
> >> Only one Piet mail exchange now in three days.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
Gordon,
Maybe everyone's in the shop. I believe (if I understood Steve's cold
turkey message) he took the other one down already.
Oh well, less time on the computer and more time building.
Michael
rib jig in Portland
sylph(at)uswest.net
>
> Tis a bit slow on this piet list.
>
> Think all the old timers stayed on the other one.
>
> Gordon Brimhall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Brimhall" <arkiesair(at)surfree.com> |
You are probably right. I was put on this list automatically, didn't even
have to think about it.
I should be out in the shop also. But waiting for NY to win series.
Thanks
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
From: Sylph <sylph(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Test
>
> Gordon,
>
> Maybe everyone's in the shop. I believe (if I understood Steve's cold
> turkey message) he took the other one down already.
>
> Oh well, less time on the computer and more time building.
>
> Michael
> rib jig in Portland
> sylph(at)uswest.net
>
>
>
> >
> > Tis a bit slow on this piet list.
> >
> > Think all the old timers stayed on the other one.
> >
> > Gordon Brimhall
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | plywood filler ? |
Do I put plywood the same thickness as the gusset between gussets? So that
there is no bump under the fabric covering.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A Big Thanks to Steve! |
I think there is a lot of thanks due to Steve on his perseverence
over the last three years. What he has done is really phenominal!
Steve, look on it as passing the baton in a relay race, it is up
to the next player to continue on. I was playing with the search
function and found I had posted 194 messages to the board over
the last three years. Some of them are pretty interesting reading
when I look at the questions asked and how the group has steered
(and kept) me out of trouble. Your operation of the Piet list has
been a big help!
Thanks again Steve!
It was a hell of a good job!
-=Ian=-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry) |
| Subject: | Re: A Big Thanks to Steve! |
As a long time list subscriber I would also like to second Ian's sentiment,
Three cheers for SteveE !!!
Thanks Steve,
John McNarry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Holland <iholland@microage-tb.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Big Thanks to Steve!
<iholland@microage-tb.com>
>
>I think there is a lot of thanks due to Steve on his perseverence
>over the last three years. What he has done is really phenominal!
>Steve, look on it as passing the baton in a relay race, it is up
>to the next player to continue on. I was playing with the search
>function and found I had posted 194 messages to the board over
>the last three years. Some of them are pretty interesting reading
>when I look at the questions asked and how the group has steered
>(and kept) me out of trouble. Your operation of the Piet list has
>been a big help!
>
>Thanks again Steve!
>
>It was a hell of a good job!
>-=Ian=-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Re: Pietenpol-List: Test yes I think it is working" (Oct 27, 6:41pm)
| Subject: | Re: Test yes I think it is working |
>--------------
>
>I think we are just in a transition phase. It took me about a day to notice
>the old list was closed. Another day to send in the request to join. And
>then today to start receiving the postings (I selected the summary/digest
>version and it only comes out once a day). If more folks don't show up over
>the next week, we may need to ask them where they are and either join them
>there or encourage them to join us here.
>
>--------------
If you were subscribed to the old Pietenpol List, then you were automatically
subscribed to the new List here at Matronics. Steve emailed me the current
list of email addresses and I incorporated it on to my server. I think perhaps
people have just been a little sheepish about posting on the new server.
Please post away!!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Be a better Pilot |
I've just finished reading a one of a kind book, on the subject of flying an
airplane. I'm gonna start over and read it again. It gives a different
perspective on the Art of Flying. The name of the book is 'Stick and
Rudder', by Wolfgang Langewiesche. I got the info about this book from this
discussion group, but I don't know who it was. I highly recommend this book
to any pilot, and I feel that flight training should adopt many of his
explainations.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
This is a test. Dont be afraid its only a test.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
#6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey All,
I've just been lurking since startup, but I'm here, I've just been busy at
work, and sick at home! Waiting on wood.....
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588)
with SMTP id" <01JHNU6CICCU8Y68X3(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
| Subject: | Be a better Pilot |
I second the recommendation for this book. It has been known as on of the
best. I think I got even more out of it reading as a pilot with several
hundred hours in the log book.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 11:24 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Be a better Pilot
>
>
> I've just finished reading a one of a kind book, on the
> subject of flying an
> airplane. I'm gonna start over and read it again. It
> gives a different
> perspective on the Art of Flying. The name of the book is
> 'Stick and
> Rudder', by Wolfgang Langewiesche. I got the info about
> this book from this
> discussion group, but I don't know who it was. I highly
> recommend this book
> to any pilot, and I feel that flight training should adopt
> many of his
> explainations.
>
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588)
with SMTP id" <01JHNUJ2TLRG8Y68X3(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
| Subject: | A Big Thanks to Steve! |
Just a thank you to all of you who posted thanks to me for running the peit
list. It has been a great time. (most of the time) Those who remember the
MM days have seen the worst of it. I'm getting used to the nuances of this
new list with the rest of you too. I'd like to thank Matt Dralle for
helping make it an easy transition for me as well. Matt knows lists and is
set up to do it right. I am pleased that he has taken an interest in our
group. I am confident that his service will carry this list well for the
forseeable future --even beyond the reach of my influence, when people
wonder who Stevee is. Right now I am trying to decide what to build next.
I fly the piet regularly and have a blast, but now that I have sold the
Stinson, I am anxious to fill the garage again with another homebuilt
project. I have my list down to a Wittman Tailwind, a Hatz biplane, or
another Pietenpol. (No matter which I build it will have the MCSS (Mike
Cuy's Smoke System) installed!)
You guys are great and if there is any thanks to be given it should be
returned to you, the participants. Without some of the early adopters and
those that have come along in the last few years this would have never been
the helpful, clean, and fun list that it has become! Hats off to you!
Your Piet buddy,
Stevee.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A Big Thanks to Steve! |
FLYBABY of course!
>From: "steve(at)byu.edu Stinson, I am anxious to fill the garage again with
>another homebuilt
>project. I have my list down to a Wittman Tailwind, a Hatz biplane,
>
>Stevee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | A Big Thanks to Steve! |
On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, steve(at)byu.edu by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588) with
SMTP id wrote:
> the helpful, clean, and fun list that it has become! Hats off to you!
>
> Your Piet buddy,
>
> Stevee.
Shouldn't that be "HATZ off to you!" ? Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
I'm just finishing my first project and I'm already thinking about what to
build next. My wife gives me a hard time joking that I change my mind
several times a day. My front runners are the Starduster Too (moderate
expense and performance, 2 seat), Starduster V (low cost, moderate
performance, 1 seat), Hatz (Low cost and low performance, 2 seat), Pitts
Model 12 (very expensive but mind blowing performance, 2 seat, great
resale value), and the 80% scale S.E.5a (low cost, low performance, single
place). The reason for the S.E.5a would be strictly as a "big boy toy".
That, and I found out that a relative of mine, Capt. Bernard Beanlands,
was a WW 1 ace (9 kills) and flew the S.E.5a. After visiting a couple of
Tiger Moth projects, I decided that it might be a little much for what I
had in mind.
I guess it's obvious that the next plane will be a biplane. What I'd
really like is a 2 place biplane that's relatively low cost (scratch
built) , high performance (+/- 6-9 g) and dripping with nostalgia (WW1
fighter replica). Unfortunately, all the planes I've looked at are missing
at least one element.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
where is a good source for"stick and rudder" I love to
read.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Petri David S CDR <David.Petri(at)peterson.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RE: Stick and Rudder |
Oddly enough, I found my copy in the bookstore and I have seen it many
bookstores since. However, amazon.com carries it if you have a fear of
entering bookstores.
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
Subject:
where is a good source for"stick and rudder" I love to
read.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower(at)informador.com.mx> |
Amazon.com Amason.com (sp?)
>
>where is a good source for"stick and rudder" I love to
>read.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm still hoping for one of you who has used a Maytag or other washing
machine water pump on the Ford Model A engine to help me out with the model
number of the washer or part number. My local washer repairman must think
I'm nuts as he doesn't return my calls.
Maybe I am nuts, but such a pump may be useable on the far front of a
Crosley race engine. The best pump would be small say 5 in diam or smaller,
have a flat which could be drilled to mount on the right side near front of
engine, be fed from the front and discharge to the rear, and be driven by a
pulley on the front. Something like the picture in a mag at a stand.
Should have bought the mag. Thanks, Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
thanks! meanwhile I called a local book wholesaler and
they have a few copys left at 22.00. I can find a
phone nu if thats a good price.
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> Amazon.com Amason.com (sp?)
>
>
>
> >
> >where is a good source for"stick and rudder" I love
> to
> >read.
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stick & rudder |
ordered my copy of stick & rudder (hard cover) from< amazon.com> cost was 16.07
plus 3.95 shipping total of 20.02
they ship in 2/3 days
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
del magsam wrote:
>
> thanks! meanwhile I called a local book wholesaler and
> they have a few copys left at 22.00. I can find a
> phone nu if thats a good price.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hello everyone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
>
>I'm still hoping for one of you who has used a Maytag or other
>washing
>machine water pump on the Ford Model A engine to help me out with the
>model
>number of the washer or part number.
>
Ed
>Speed Queen #23907. Make up your own mounting bracket.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Brimhall" <arkiesair(at)surfree.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Soggi Drylake Flyin & pumpkin drop |
This was a good fly-In last year for fun. Kitfoxes and other homebuilts
Gordon Brimhall
----- Original Message -----
From: <IFLYAFOX(at)aol.com>
Subject: Soggi Drylake Flyin & pumpkin drop
> Annual Soggi Drylake Flyin Haloween party, Soggi Dry Lake, southern CA.
> Saturday, October 30. Several people will be camping out
> Saturday night. This has become an annual event and we had
> a blast last year. Bring your own pumpkins for the pumpkin drop!
> Bring your own food, water, drinks, etc. No stores or supplies available.
> Landing area is a hard dirt surface with easy approach. If you're
interested
> send me an email and I'll get you the coordinates.
>
> Howard
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | LEAF Big Wheels for piet??? |
One of the guys on this list spoke about a set of big tires and matching
wheels from Leading Edge Airfoils he was going to adapt for his piet.
What size axles were you going to use?
Do you know the cost of tires tubes, wheels?
Are these shown on the LEAF web site?..........where on the site? I cant
seem to find them.
I ask, as after making my spoke wheel hubs, and now, the exasperation
experience of trying to find even one outfit which will lace them or even
roll spokes...I have given up on spokes wheels, and would like to try those
LEAF jobs.
Thanks for any information.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Bob
I think the wheels you are talking about are made by AZUSA
the web site is
www.Azusaeng.com/catalog/catalog.html
They have some large wheels. I am looking at the 8" alum with brakes. I
think there are only two axle sizes, they are 5/8 and 3/4. Aircraft Spruce
and Wicks have the 6" and 8" wheels. hope this helps
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LEAF Big Wheels for piet??? |
Bob, try this place for your spokes, and maybe you'll stick with the idea:
http://www.buchananspokes.com/
This was in the list recently, and I saved it for when I need it.
Hope it helps out,
Michael
Wing ribs in Portland
sylph(at)uswest.net
----- Original Message -----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LEAF Big Wheels for piet???
> I ask, as after making my spoke wheel hubs, and now, the exasperation
> experience of trying to find even one outfit which will lace them or even
> roll spokes...I have given up on spokes wheels, and would like to try
those
> LEAF jobs.
>
> Thanks for any information.
>
> Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
"Oil Can" ? I haven't built my gear yet, I'm going the Big wheel route
using 3/4 Hegar axel and breaks from ACS.I custom ordered a pair of
alum. 8X6 atv wheels from Douglass Wheels. (ads appear in atv 4-wheeler
magazines) with only the 1 3/4 center hole. I then drilled my lug bolt
holes myself to match hub. Using light aircraft tundra tire's( their
probably atv. tire's) that i saw on a plane in the UL. display area at
Oshkosh. (21X12X8) Each wheel, tire, axel, brake, about half the weight
of a same Goodyear set-up I have laying around. This set up has the old
Goodyear Air Wheel "fat"look. I was worried about the 3/4 axels, but the
yellow and red Suburu Piet at Oshkosh has them. He says they are plenty
stout. (Woolsley, I think) LEAF has 21X7X8 skinned tire's They feel
awfully thin, and 4"wide al. spoke Azusa wheels. They are very narrow
and I thought looked out of place on a Piet. Woolsley (I think) Had
these at Oshkosh. You don"t find these things used, I paid about 400 for
hub brake and axel. (3/4 axel is special order, no refund.) $125 for
wheels $125 for tire's. Yah it is expensive, but it is also repaying me
in weight savings. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
Stefan) writes:
>Stefan)
>
>"Oil Can" ? I haven't built my gear yet, I'm going the Big wheel
>route
>using 3/4 Hegar axel and breaks from ACS.
>+---
What you describe sounds like the set-up used on the Piet whose wheel
broke landing at OSH which resulted in a ground loop and a ride home on a
flat-bed trailer.
Check it out, Leon.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, Larry! Maybe now my local guy will believe. Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Water pump
>
>
> >
> >I'm still hoping for one of you who has used a Maytag or other
> >washing
> >machine water pump on the Ford Model A engine to help me out with the
> >model
> >number of the washer or part number.
> >
>
> Ed
>
> >Speed Queen #23907. Make up your own mounting bracket.
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
hello anybody? sure is quiet.
I have noticed lately that a pusher prop looks like a
left hand (counterclock wise) prop that would be used
for corvair. I assume that a pusher has a reversed air
foil design though. Am I correct in that assumption?
what other differences are there.
thanks
del
________________________________________________________________________________
by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #38588)
with SMTP id" <01JHTGR18LTS8Y6DD8(at)EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for
That is the same set-up, but the wheel breaking off was not a result of the
designs, but rather exeeding the design limitations of the wheel (ie impact
and ground loop forces) If you crash you are going to sustain damage.
Hopefully it will be confined to the airframe, and not your body, such as
was the fortunate case at OSH.
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Of Lawrence
> V Williams
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 8:07 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Big Wheels
>
>
>
>
>
> leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon
> Stefan) writes:
> leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon
> >Stefan)
> >
> >"Oil Can" ? I haven't built my gear yet, I'm going the Big wheel
> >route
> >using 3/4 Hegar axel and breaks from ACS.
> >+---
>
> What you describe sounds like the set-up used on the Piet whose wheel
> broke landing at OSH which resulted in a ground loop and a
> ride home on a
> flat-bed trailer.
>
> Check it out, Leon.
>
> Larry
>
>
> Pietenpol-List:
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Del, you're exactlly right. Some of the other differences are the length.
Shorter props because the rpm is much greater. This is necessary to get the
horse power out of the engines.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message ----- > I assume that a pusher has a reversed air
> foil design though. Am I correct in that assumption?
> what other differences are there.
> thanks
> del
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Del,
There are alot of different prop styles out there, but as far as a pusher
prop to a "puller" prop, there is no difference. The place that explaned it
best when it came to ordering a prop, was Calofornis Power Systems.
They said " stand with the wind in your face, pusher or puller, and see
which way the prop is turning, simple as that".
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 11:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: propeller
>
>hello anybody? sure is quiet.
>I have noticed lately that a pusher prop looks like a
>left hand (counterclock wise) prop that would be used
>for corvair. I assume that a pusher has a reversed air
>foil design though. Am I correct in that assumption?
>what other differences are there.
>thanks
>del
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi All,
I didn't get any mail from the group today, (Sunday)and was wondering if it
was all still working, so I'll send this one in, and check it out.
I've got the rib stitches under way now...I've got almost four ribs done. I
used the stitch spacing, according to the chart in the AC 43 13-1A / 2A. It
recommends the stitches in the prop wash, plus one rib, be spaced 2 1/2"
apart, and the remainder of the outboard rib stitches be spaced 3 1/2" apart.
The exception in both areas is, on the first and second stitch, whose
spacing is half the normal spacing... and the last two stitches at one-half
normal spacing.
Question : In the book 'Stick and Rudder, Wolfgang says "Altitude is like
money in the bank, and speed is like money in the pocket". Does this mean
that Piet Drivers are 'Po Folk'?
Is anybody listening ?
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Neal <llneal(at)earthlink.net> |
Richard, Stevee, Gary, all the rest.
Good knowing you all, but I'm out of here....
LLN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Group- Anyone with Piet related questions for me after 11/2/99
can reach me directly at:
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov
-OR-
Michael Cuy
7720 Center Road
Valley City, OH 44280
All the best and keep building !!
Mike Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stick & Rudder |
I,m still here but sounds like we're losing a few. my
copy of stick and rudder are coming. sounds like a
good book.
del
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I didn't get any mail from the group today,
> (Sunday)and was wondering if it
> was all still working, so I'll send this one in, and
> check it out.
> I've got the rib stitches under way now...I've got
> almost four ribs done. I
> used the stitch spacing, according to the chart in
> the AC 43 13-1A / 2A. It
> recommends the stitches in the prop wash, plus one
> rib, be spaced 2 1/2"
> apart, and the remainder of the outboard rib
> stitches be spaced 3 1/2" apart.
> The exception in both areas is, on the first and
> second stitch, whose
> spacing is half the normal spacing... and the last
> two stitches at one-half
> normal spacing.
> Question : In the book 'Stick and Rudder, Wolfgang
> says "Altitude is like
> money in the bank, and speed is like money in the
> pocket". Does this mean
> that Piet Drivers are 'Po Folk'?
> Is anybody listening ?
> Chuck Gantzer
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | New Piet_Builder list.... please join |
The IHA now has a Pietenpol Builders mailing list. You are welcome to
join the list.... IHA membership is not required as this is a public
list.
To Join send a blank message to: Piet_Builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
This new list is open to all who are interested in Pietenpol building.
I will be unsubscribing from this current list in a few days.... as
I'm tired of recieving junk mail from the list host. The new list
does not have a digest version, nor does it have the ability to graft
the list name to the subject line. Otherwise the listbot lists
function very well. Unsubscribe info is listed at the bottom of each
message.
H.W.
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve wrote
I am thinking about building my GN-1 fuse out of 4130 tube. Has anyone
done this> How bout the Piet guys.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
#6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kangaair(at)vzinet.com (Lee Barrett) |
Steve:
I have a set of plans for the Piet from St Criox and they have the
optional tube fus drawings included. One thing I can see over the wood
fus would be the ease of adding a door for the front pit. I would think
the drawings would be the same as the GN-1.
Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
You are correct that not all rocker arms are the same. Most aircraft
engines do have exhaust rocker arms with a hole drilled in them to allow
oil to be sprayed on the exhaust valve stem for cooling purposes. So the
drilled rockers are exhaust ones and the non-drilled are for the intake
valves.
John Langston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
>--------------
>
>The IHA now has a Pietenpol Builders mailing list. You are welcome to
>join the list.... IHA membership is not required as this is a public
>list.
>
>To Join send a blank message to: Piet_Builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
>
>This new list is open to all who are interested in Pietenpol building.
>
>I will be unsubscribing from this current list in a few days.... as
>I'm tired of receiving junk mail from the list host. The new list
>does not have a digest version, nor does it have the ability to graft
>the list name to the subject line. Otherwise the listbot lists
>function very well. Unsubscribe info is listed at the bottom of each
>message.
>--------------
Howard and Pietenpol Listers,
Some of these comments are simply not true.
1) There *IS* a Digest Version of each List. The Day's messages are
stripped of all the extra header and encoding data and then sent as
one message. You may subscribe to the Digest Version of the List at
the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
The Digest Version is described in detail in the FAQ that was sent
out. There are currently 23 people subscribed to the Digest Version -
about 10% of the List - so it would seem that at least a few people
read the FAQ...
2) I don't understand what you mean by "nor does it have the ability
to graft the list name to the subject line", since every message has
"Pietenpol-List:" prepended to the Subject line?
3) What do you mean by "Junk mail", exactly? I have posted, I think,
2 messages regarding the yearly Fund Raiser. It is somewhat
unfortunate that the List came on board just now, since it would seem
to some like a commercial hassle, but the truth is, the other 11
months of the year, I make no mention of supporting the List. All of
the other posts I have made have been informational in nature. I
assumed that everyone wanted to know what was going on with the List
Operation. Is this incorrect?
I also find it interesting that you seem to find that receiving Virus
ridden enclosures and mounds of email header and encoding data
alright, but consider receiving status information regarding the List
"Junk mail"... Hum...
4) Have you tried the List Search Engine? Or the Archive Browser?
These capabilities of these services unique to this site and I believe
are of a caliber not available elsewhere.
5) I do have certain restrictive policies regarding message encoding
and the posting of enclosures. But haven't you noticed how much
cleaner and easier to read the text is now? If you've checked the
Archives, you'll note that you can actually *find* the discussion text
in it now, and you don't have to wade through 300 lines of MIME and
HTML encoding to find it. Also, the Pietenpol Archive is now 11Mb
down from 25Mb. I spent literally a *whole weekend* stripping out the
enclosure data, MIME encoding, and HTML duplicates to drop the
Archive's size in this manner. More importantly, I didn't remove a
SINGLE line of content!! I can't see how anyone can argue with these
results...
I am very saddened that everyone is so dissatisfied with my List
service. Ironically, I work very hard at maintaining it and spend
many many hours each week trying to make it the best experience I can.
But, it would seem I've failed. I am truly sorry.
Matt Dralle
Pietenpol List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Petri David S CDR <David.Petri(at)peterson.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Howard,
Considering this is a free mailing list, I feel your comments are out of
line. I've subscribed to several of Matt's lists and have enjoyed them
tremendously. I'm not barraged with fancy graphics and ads like OneList.
As far as I'm concerned, if Matt wants to put an occasional ad on the list
that's okay with me. Keep in mind that this list is far from cost-free for
Matt... in time or money. He certainly does not deserve your condemnation.
Sorry to see you go.
>
>The IHA now has a Pietenpol Builders mailing list. You are welcome to
>join the list.... IHA membership is not required as this is a public
>list.
>
>To Join send a blank message to: Piet_Builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
>
>This new list is open to all who are interested in Pietenpol building.
>
>I will be unsubscribing from this current list in a few days.... as
>I'm tired of receiving junk mail from the list host. The new list
>does not have a digest version, nor does it have the ability to graft
>the list name to the subject line. Otherwise the listbot lists
>function very well. Unsubscribe info is listed at the bottom of each
>message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <STEVE(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Matt,
Just a point of clarification... I think Howard W. was saying that the list
bot list version howard has created doesn't have digest or the header
grafting.
Everyone else,
I too am disapointed that there are those that don't seem satisfied with
the new list. I know that Matt has spent many hours working on making this
list more functional and more useful. There are changes yes, but good ones
I think. Keep up the good work Matt. I hope the rest of the group sees the
value in having a single point of discussion on the net for the Piet.
Best Regard to all,
Steve e.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Cunningham" <mikec(at)microlandusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Matt, I am not even a Piet builder and I still like this list. Lots of good
info, little to no junk to deal with.
Good folks too. Keep up the good work!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 2:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]...
>
>
>>--------------
>>
>>The IHA now has a Pietenpol Builders mailing list. You are welcome to
>>join the list.... IHA membership is not required as this is a public
>>list.
>>
>>To Join send a blank message to: Piet_Builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
>>
>>This new list is open to all who are interested in Pietenpol building.
>>
>>I will be unsubscribing from this current list in a few days.... as
>>I'm tired of receiving junk mail from the list host. The new list
>>does not have a digest version, nor does it have the ability to graft
>>the list name to the subject line. Otherwise the listbot lists
>>function very well. Unsubscribe info is listed at the bottom of each
>>message.
>>--------------
>
>
>Howard and Pietenpol Listers,
>
>Some of these comments are simply not true.
>
>1) There *IS* a Digest Version of each List. The Day's messages are
>stripped of all the extra header and encoding data and then sent as
>one message. You may subscribe to the Digest Version of the List at
>the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
>
>The Digest Version is described in detail in the FAQ that was sent
>out. There are currently 23 people subscribed to the Digest Version -
>about 10% of the List - so it would seem that at least a few people
>read the FAQ...
>
>2) I don't understand what you mean by "nor does it have the ability
>to graft the list name to the subject line", since every message has
>"Pietenpol-List:" prepended to the Subject line?
>
>3) What do you mean by "Junk mail", exactly? I have posted, I think,
>2 messages regarding the yearly Fund Raiser. It is somewhat
>unfortunate that the List came on board just now, since it would seem
>to some like a commercial hassle, but the truth is, the other 11
>months of the year, I make no mention of supporting the List. All of
>the other posts I have made have been informational in nature. I
>assumed that everyone wanted to know what was going on with the List
>Operation. Is this incorrect?
>
>I also find it interesting that you seem to find that receiving Virus
>ridden enclosures and mounds of email header and encoding data
>alright, but consider receiving status information regarding the List
>"Junk mail"... Hum...
>
>4) Have you tried the List Search Engine? Or the Archive Browser?
>These capabilities of these services unique to this site and I believe
>are of a caliber not available elsewhere.
>
>5) I do have certain restrictive policies regarding message encoding
>and the posting of enclosures. But haven't you noticed how much
>cleaner and easier to read the text is now? If you've checked the
>Archives, you'll note that you can actually *find* the discussion text
>in it now, and you don't have to wade through 300 lines of MIME and
>HTML encoding to find it. Also, the Pietenpol Archive is now 11Mb
>down from 25Mb. I spent literally a *whole weekend* stripping out the
>enclosure data, MIME encoding, and HTML duplicates to drop the
>Archive's size in this manner. More importantly, I didn't remove a
>SINGLE line of content!! I can't see how anyone can argue with these
>results...
>
>I am very saddened that everyone is so dissatisfied with my List
>service. Ironically, I work very hard at maintaining it and spend
>many many hours each week trying to make it the best experience I can.
>But, it would seem I've failed. I am truly sorry.
>
>Matt Dralle
>Pietenpol List Admin.
>
>
>--
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I didn't get any mail from the group today, (Sunday)and was wondering if it
> was all still working, so I'll send this one in, and check it out.
> I've got the rib stitches under way now..
as you're well into the final stages into the wing construction, I've got a
question, I'm starting on rib # 23 this evening and starting to wonder---my plan
is to construct the last 4 ribs with gussetts on one side only and covering the
other side in total with 1/16 ply as fabric attach points for the wing root ends
and outboard center section. 2 lefts and 2 rights. has this been the standard
practice ??
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
HI Joe,
That's what I did on mine.
Jack Phillips
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fishin [SMTP:fishin(at)wwa.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 4:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing const. knots to it
>
>
>
> Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I didn't get any mail from the group today, (Sunday)and was wondering if
> it
> > was all still working, so I'll send this one in, and check it out.
> > I've got the rib stitches under way now..
>
> as you're well into the final stages into the wing construction, I've got
> a
> question, I'm starting on rib # 23 this evening and starting to
> wonder---my plan
> is to construct the last 4 ribs with gussetts on one side only and
> covering the
> other side in total with 1/16 ply as fabric attach points for the wing
> root ends
> and outboard center section. 2 lefts and 2 rights. has this been the
> standard
> practice ??
> regards
> JoeC
> Zion, Illinois
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
I don't like to bite the hand that feeds me. Steve put a lot of
effort into this list and now we have someone else willing to
support our need to communicate regularly. I am very
appreciative of the effort and time that has been and is now put
into making this list work. If you have a problem with it, how
about making a private "suggestion" to the individual making the
effort to support our group. My thanks are to Matt Dralle for
taking over this effort.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bradley & Lorraine James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Keep up the good work..........
I enjoy your service.
Brad James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Matt, I fully concur with SteveE's thoughts. Keep up the good work (I
know, "me too's" are supposed to be forbidden, but this is a little
different I think ;-)
BTW, did anyone else dress up for Halloween? My wife was doing a great
"Rosie the Rivetter" and I was if full form in my Ray Stits costume. Yup,
we were up to our elbows in fabric glue as the kids came to the door.
Later,
Ken
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> Just a point of clarification... I think Howard W. was saying that the list
> bot list version howard has created doesn't have digest or the header
> grafting.
>
> Everyone else,
>
> I too am disapointed that there are those that don't seem satisfied with
> the new list. I know that Matt has spent many hours working on making this
> list more functional and more useful. There are changes yes, but good ones
> I think. Keep up the good work Matt. I hope the rest of the group sees the
> value in having a single point of discussion on the net for the Piet.
>
> Best Regard to all,
>
> Steve e.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Matt,
Not everyone is dissatisfied. I for one am very happy to
not get HTML or MIME or photo attachements or any other
attachment for that matter. There is a place to put
any item that you would send as an attachment. It is
http://www.aircamper.org. Richard provides web space for
just that purpose.
Put your attachment on the web site and send a note about
it to the list. This method also has the advantage of the
item being there for the person that joins the list the
day after you send your attachment and never finds it.
Steve provided a great service. It is time to move on. If
you ever run a list for a long period of time you will
understand what a pain it can be.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stick & Rudder |
Hej Chuck,
If you want to fly so high that you can't read the watertowers, or so fast
that your eyes water, there are other planes that can be built. But, I
suspect that you're like most of us Piet - ers that like the happy
puckety-puckety-puck of a burbly little old slow motor and wiping bugs off of
the leading edges before tucking the airplane away 'till next time.
It'll be a couple of years before I get My Bugsmasher up, and I enjoy the
building just as much as the flying.
DG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Skinner <innovate(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]... |
I too am very happy not to get Mime or HTML or be forced to wait for 1 Meg
attachment downloads. It was getting to be a bit much for me on the old
list and I was considering dropping the group.
I think it worth noting it was about a year ago (I guess) that Steve made it
a policy that people not attach things to their emails but post them as Dave
notes (following). People were complaining about the long downloads. He
was enforcing it for a while but some either weren't around then or have
forgotten. The normally accepted way of handling these things on most lists
is just as it is on this one now. Plain text and no attachments.
Jim
>
>Matt,
>
>Not everyone is dissatisfied. I for one am very happy to
>not get HTML or MIME or photo attachements or any other
>attachment for that matter. There is a place to put
>any item that you would send as an attachment. It is
>http://www.aircamper.org. Richard provides web space for
>just that purpose.
>
>Put your attachment on the web site and send a note about
>it to the list. This method also has the advantage of the
>item being there for the person that joins the list the
>day after you send your attachment and never finds it.
>
>Steve provided a great service. It is time to move on. If
>you ever run a list for a long period of time you will
>understand what a pain it can be.
>
>Dave
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Builders Resource |
I joined the Pietenpol list just a month before Steve passed it to Matt. I
find a single e-mail source valuable to the building experience and will
stay here for the clean and efficient way it is run. Like most builders, an
attachment can be valuable but it can be a real hassle too, if you happen to
get a virus along with it. I experienced it first hand a few weeks back
and, believe me, it wasn't fun.
The aircamper.org or one's personal site is a perfect place to go take a
look at a photo or drawing. I visit it often anyway. Looking forward to
using these resources during my building process.
Thanks to all for your contributions. At some point, I will be able to pass
along a hint or two to someone else.
Michael
Reviewing plans and getting ready to build wing ribs
Portland, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
In a message dated 11/2/99 3:35:52 PM Central Standard Time, fishin(at)wwa.com
writes:
<< my plan
is to construct the last 4 ribs with gussetts on one side only and covering
the
other side in total with 1/16 ply as fabric attach points for the wing root
ends
and outboard center section. 2 lefts and 2 rights. has this been the standard
practice ?? >>
Joe,
I'm building the one piece wing, and yes it does fit nicely in my living /
dining room, standing up on the leading edge, (actually suspended on 4 jigs,
at the center section, and strut attach points) so it will extend out the
back door, to the enclosed in back porch. I think you are on the right track
for the 3 piece wing, however, isn't there additional plywood (mabye an inch
or two wide) on the top and bottom surfaces, at those locations?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stick & Rudder |
In a message dated 11/2/99 7:29:19 PM Central Standard Time, GREA738(at)aol.com
writes:
<< the happy
puckety-puckety-puck of a burbly little old slow motor and wiping bugs off
of
the leading edges before tucking the airplane away 'till next time. >>
Ahhh Yesss !!! The anticipation is just KILLIN' me !!! However, I do fly
'er every night in my dreams !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Dissatisfied Member reply & clarification |
Matt:
I was not criticising this list for lack of features as it has all
the bells an whistles...... I was saying that the Listbot (no hassle
lists) do not.
I guess I over reacted to all this list admin nonsense..... I
filter all list traffic to it's own folder so I catch all the admin
stuff directly under my nose on my inbox as it doesn't originate from
the list.
This list was working just fine the way it was before you changed
over to Matonics... I don't honestly know the reason for the change...
it doesn't bother me though. What I find irritating are the little
epistles on proper list ettiquitte, enclosures, fund raising, etc....
We all know proper list ettiquette I would hope by now.... please save
lectures for those who need them. If you feel the need for monthly
postings of list ettiquette and an annual fund raiser you can include
me out.
I have several (8 to be exact) mailing lists up and running, and
they require NO admin work at all.... Once configured they simply run
themselves.... no
labor, no cost, no unsolicited advertizing....nothing. None of the
other lists I participate in have any intervention by the list
administrator whatsoever. I have
been on Robert Comperini's list (Fly-ULwhich is an exception to this
as he seems to feel the need to intervene.... the same is true of
Kevin Hester's AirSoob list though to a lesser degree... I no longer
participate in either of these.
If you are haveing administrative problems and it is requiring a
great deal of time and effort I suggest a different list server.
I can't expect you not to be offended by this post..... It cannot
be written in a manner which is totally inoffensive. But it at least
is an attempt to express my feelings honestly about the matter.
This list has been an enjoyable and useful forum.
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dissatisfied Members [PLEASE READ]...
Dralle)
>
>
>>--------------
>>
>>The IHA now has a Pietenpol Builders mailing list. You are welcome
to
>>join the list.... IHA membership is not required as this is a public
>>list.
>>
>>To Join send a blank message to:
Piet_Builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
>>
>>This new list is open to all who are interested in Pietenpol
building.
>>
>>I will be unsubscribing from this current list in a few days.... as
>>I'm tired of receiving junk mail from the list host. The new list
>>does not have a digest version, nor does it have the ability to
graft
>>the list name to the subject line. Otherwise the listbot lists
>>function very well. Unsubscribe info is listed at the bottom of
each
>>message.
>>--------------
>
>
>Howard and Pietenpol Listers,
>
>Some of these comments are simply not true.
>
>1) There *IS* a Digest Version of each List. The Day's messages are
>stripped of all the extra header and encoding data and then sent as
>one message. You may subscribe to the Digest Version of the List at
>the following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
>
>The Digest Version is described in detail in the FAQ that was sent
>out. There are currently 23 people subscribed to the Digest
Version -
>about 10% of the List - so it would seem that at least a few people
>read the FAQ...
>
>2) I don't understand what you mean by "nor does it have the ability
>to graft the list name to the subject line", since every message has
>"Pietenpol-List:" prepended to the Subject line?
>
>3) What do you mean by "Junk mail", exactly? I have posted, I think,
>2 messages regarding the yearly Fund Raiser. It is somewhat
>unfortunate that the List came on board just now, since it would seem
>to some like a commercial hassle, but the truth is, the other 11
>months of the year, I make no mention of supporting the List. All of
>the other posts I have made have been informational in nature. I
>assumed that everyone wanted to know what was going on with the List
>Operation. Is this incorrect?
>
>I also find it interesting that you seem to find that receiving Virus
>ridden enclosures and mounds of email header and encoding data
>alright, but consider receiving status information regarding the List
>"Junk mail"... Hum...
>
>4) Have you tried the List Search Engine? Or the Archive Browser?
>These capabilities of these services unique to this site and I
believe
>are of a caliber not available elsewhere.
>
>5) I do have certain restrictive policies regarding message encoding
>and the posting of enclosures. But haven't you noticed how much
>cleaner and easier to read the text is now? If you've checked the
>Archives, you'll note that you can actually *find* the discussion
text
>in it now, and you don't have to wade through 300 lines of MIME and
>HTML encoding to find it. Also, the Pietenpol Archive is now 11Mb
>down from 25Mb. I spent literally a *whole weekend* stripping out
the
>enclosure data, MIME encoding, and HTML duplicates to drop the
>Archive's size in this manner. More importantly, I didn't remove a
>SINGLE line of content!! I can't see how anyone can argue with these
>results...
>
>I am very saddened that everyone is so dissatisfied with my List
>service. Ironically, I work very hard at maintaining it and spend
>many many hours each week trying to make it the best experience I
can.
>But, it would seem I've failed. I am truly sorry.
>
>Matt Dralle
>Pietenpol List Admin.
>
>
>--
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Is this list down... Test ..... |
I haven't recieved any mail from the Piet list since my most recent
posting last night.... just testing.
H.W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
Joe-
I have built Piet ribs as you describe, with the extra uprights as per plans
(tip rib) and 1/16 ply on the outside only....haven't had any complaints.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
Replicraft(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Joe-
> I have built Piet ribs as you describe, with the extra uprights as per plans
> (tip rib) and 1/16 ply on the outside only....haven't had any complaints.
>
> Steve
Steve--do I understand you to say that on the tip rib in addition to the
additional uprights you also put the 1/16 ply on one side??? I thought the one
sided ply ribs were only the root ribs and the outer center section ribs . this
being for fabric attachment ...
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | scallop leading edge ply? |
Are you guys scalloping the leading edge ply at the back, between the ribs?
My first project called for this, and it made the fabric lay nice. Said no
mention of it in the plans, and wondered what you guys did.
walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
I covered my root ribs the same way with plywood so that it would be easier
to attach the fabric. Knowing that the fabric would pull on the ribs, I also
attached 2 inch wide plywood to the undersurface of the root ribs. After
tautening, it still bowed in nearly 1/2 inch.
Jim Malley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: scallop leading edge ply? |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>Are you guys scalloping the leading edge ply at the back, between the
>ribs?
>
Walt
Mr. Pietenpol said not to scallop it, just glue it down as the plans call
for and DON'T attach it to the top of the spar. It will pull down a
little between the ribs as the fabric shrinks and give you a nice
transition.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is this list down... Test ..... |
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
>
> I haven't recieved any mail from the Piet list since my most recent
> posting last night.... just testing.
>
> H.W.
>
>
I guess after you slammed Matt no ones talking!
I have been lurking for a while, I finished an RV-4 about 6 months
ago and I'm now looking for another plane to build.
It was a toss up between a Tailwind and the Piet.
The tailwinds performance was to close to the RV, soooooooooo
looks like I'm going to build an Air Camper.
Can someone tell me approx cost, and number of hours to build one?
I know very little about building with wood and fabric, of course
I did not know anything about alu when I started the RV.
I have been on the RV-list for about 4 years now, Matt has done an
excellent job of operating the RV and a long line of other lists.
The amount of info that is shared on these lists is staggering.
Considering the cost, I fail to see how anyone could complain.
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee,FL.
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: scallop leading edge ply? |
In a message dated 11/3/99 6:33:19 PM Central Standard Time, lnawms(at)juno.com
writes:
<< >
>Are you guys scalloping the leading edge ply at the back, between the
>ribs?
>
Walt
Mr. Pietenpol said not to scallop it, just glue it down as the plans call
for and DON'T attach it to the top of the spar. It will pull down a
little between the ribs as the fabric shrinks and give you a nice
transition.
Larry >>
I did it the way the plans call for, but was concerned that scalloped ply
might have been the better way. It turned just the way Mr. Pietenpol said it
would, and I'm very pleased with it. However, I did bevel the top aft corner
of the plywood just a little, so the fabric could roll off of it, as opposed
to a sharp break.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | Is this list down... Test ..... |
Hi Craig,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols! Time to build is probably
around 1200 hours or so, depending on how much time you spend doing things
over. I have completed my wing and have about 330 hours in it. I expect
(and hope) I'm about 30% complete with the project. Costs can vary greatly,
depending on engine and materials. I'm building mine with all "aircraft
grade" materials and a Continental A-65 engine and expect my total cost to
be somewhere around $7500 to $8,000. You can build it for much less -
perhaps as low as $4,000 if you use lumberyard wood and hardware store
hardware and are real good at scrounging.
One of the real joys of this design is that the plans are somewhat
incomplete, and the design lends itself well to "tinkering", with the result
that no two Pietenpols are ever exactly alike - even the ones built by
Bernard himself. The plans leave some room for "individual expression".
The plane flies very well, with good performance for this type of airplane.
I haven't flown a Ford powered Piet, but the Continental powered versions
perform very similarly to a J-3 Cub, but better. It will get off the ground
in less distance than your RV-4, and will likely attract at least as much
attention on the ramp.
Jack Phillips
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Hiers [SMTP:"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:44 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this list down... Test .....
>
> <"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net>
>
> Howard Wilkinson wrote:
> >
> >
> > I haven't recieved any mail from the Piet list since my most recent
> > posting last night.... just testing.
> >
> > H.W.
> >
> >
>
> I guess after you slammed Matt no ones talking!
>
> I have been lurking for a while, I finished an RV-4 about 6 months
> ago and I'm now looking for another plane to build.
> It was a toss up between a Tailwind and the Piet.
> The tailwinds performance was to close to the RV, soooooooooo
> looks like I'm going to build an Air Camper.
> Can someone tell me approx cost, and number of hours to build one?
> I know very little about building with wood and fabric, of course
> I did not know anything about alu when I started the RV.
>
> I have been on the RV-list for about 4 years now, Matt has done an
> excellent job of operating the RV and a long line of other lists.
> The amount of info that is shared on these lists is staggering.
> Considering the cost, I fail to see how anyone could complain.
>
> Craig Hiers
> Tallahassee,FL.
> RV-4 N143CH
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is this list down... Test ..... |
Craig Hiers
<"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net>@matronics.com on
11/03/99 06:44:16 PM
Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this list down... Test .....
Go and get the archives for the Aircamper list. You'll find a
staggering amount of info along with a huge amount of general
chatter and personal messages. I downloaded a copy and have been
editing out all of the header and footer stuff and as much of the
personal stuff as possible. If I ever get it near enough to
completion I'll upload it for all. Until then, take the whole
list and search on words that are important to you.
If you ever try to find anything in the archives, you'll
appreciate how important it is to change the subject line to
match the subject of the message. GRRRRRR!
Wow, are the RV and the Aircamper generations apart (literally
about three generations apart). It would seem to almost be
dangerous to fly in one and then step into the other and take
off. I remember bowling ten pins and then rolling a game of duck
pins. The first ball of the duck pins went most of the way down
the alley in the air and it took a couple of frames to adjust.
Has anyone had any sort of similar experience flying a Piet and
then hopping into something high performance. If you can reply,
then you must have survived, but what was the experience like?
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
looks like I'm going to build an Air Camper.
Can someone tell me approx cost, and number of hours to build
one?
I know very little about building with wood and fabric, of course
I did not know anything about alu when I started the RV.
I have been on the RV-list for about 4 years now, Matt has done
an
excellent job of operating the RV and a long line of other lists.
The amount of info that is shared on these lists is staggering.
Considering the cost, I fail to see how anyone could complain.
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee,FL.
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: Dissatified Members [PLEASE READ]... |
Matt,
My opinion and 50 cents will buy you a soda, but I think the new list is
great - some very useful new features.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
>
> Matt, I fully concur with SteveE's thoughts. Keep up the good work (I
> know, "me too's" are supposed to be forbidden, but this is a little
> different I think ;-)
>
> BTW, did anyone else dress up for Halloween? My wife was doing a great
> "Rosie the Rivetter" and I was if full form in my Ray Stits costume. Yup,
> we were up to our elbows in fabric glue as the kids came to the door.
>
> Later,
> Ken
>
> On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > Just a point of clarification... I think Howard W. was saying that the
list
> > bot list version howard has created doesn't have digest or the header
> > grafting.
> >
> > Everyone else,
> >
> > I too am disapointed that there are those that don't seem satisfied
with
> > the new list. I know that Matt has spent many hours working on making
this
> > list more functional and more useful. There are changes yes, but good
ones
> > I think. Keep up the good work Matt. I hope the rest of the group sees
the
> > value in having a single point of discussion on the net for the Piet.
> >
> > Best Regard to all,
> >
> > Steve e.
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Now that I've been thoroughly castigated for criticizing this Mr..
Dralle's heavy handed list management tactics.... 2 pages of
etiquette BS and a fund raiser of all things.......... and for
beginning a new forum at listbot, I find that a new Piet forum already
existed started by other people who apparently felt as I did that Matt
Dralle's primary interest in the list was commercial... promoting his
business and realizing a profit from list member donations.
So we now have 3 Pietenpol lists.... I missed the post announcing
the other one. I intend to attempt to consolidate the new list which
now has 20 members with the list Gary Meadows started as both were
started for the same reasons. Anybody who wishes to jump this ship
may subscribe to either Gary's list at:
Pietenpol-subscribe(at)listbot.com
or my list at: Piet_builder-subscribe(at)listbot.com
it is my hope that these lists will become one list at one of these
venues. I will remain involved in the Dralle list unless removed
until this situation is resolved.
I doubt that members of either of these lists will be subjected to
fundraising attempts or pages of etiquette rules. Most mailing lists
are very effective at self policing.
H.W.
I apologise to those who I have offended.... It is not my intention to
fragment the Piet builder community, only to relocate it to what I
consider a more congenial venue.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 Lists... Oops |
Well, in the interest of balance, I still commend Steve for finding a place
for our group to go. When Richard DeCosta's 'puter took a dump, many of us
contributed money and parts for him to be able to continue that service, which
we all appreciate. The ONE TIME YEARLY request for such support from Matt is
not offensive to me at all. For the price of two drinks at my local watering
hole, I get this service for a year, and even this is voluntary...NOT A
REQUIREMENT...
As for the request that we actually label our input so it can be retrieved
later from the archives.....does this seem way too logical? Maybe for those
who insist on dragging in their water witching and harley davidson stories in
here?
That there is more than one place for Piet builders is a good thing, I'm
sure. I learned from several old EAA'ers that they belong to two EAA chapters,
and I have taken their tack....one has more than 120 member...and only 6
builders...and it is a great social club...not necessarily to be confused with
a
"builders group". The second chapter only has 12 members and 12 builders. This
is were to go for the real information and inspiration.
That Matt has this organized for builders to trade information probably will
offend the "Good Sam" club guys.....and it sounds like there are a couple of
places for them to visit and swap hanger stories and perhaps they will allow the
rest of us to visit there once in awhile too. There is room for both groups.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Steve, what have you done? |
All I see is comments about the new server. Anything about Pietenpols?
What happened to the fun?
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How much and how long |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
Craig
Looks like it'll be about $5000 and 6 years for mine. That's less than a
grand per year. Pretty good way to constructively fill spare time.
If you're the kind of person that needs to have everything collected
prior to beginning the project, it could cost a whole lot more than if
you can take it a little at a time and pick up stuff as you go.
There are all sorts of ideas and ingeneous ways to do things that seem to
pop up just when I need them. The annual reunion at Brodhead has a wealth
of ideas and sometimes a few Piet-related parts for sale. There are also
partially completed projects that sell for less than the cost of parts.
Maybe they're good, maybe not.
Your best bet is to get some plans from Don Pietenpol, buy some wood and
glue and have-at-it. As you build and talk to others and get into the
"group" things will become obvious and "deals" will materialize. It's an
amazing thing!
Keep monitoring this list and the BPA web page (if Grant ever surfaces
again) and look around. There are about 30 Piets registered in FL so
there should be one or two around you. Make the pilgrammage to Mecca,
er....I mean Brodhead, and keep your eyes open.
Best of luck
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
Joe-
You are correct.
I added the ply to the tip ribs also (as per the butt rib design). It is a
personal preference. I did not see what it would hurt, figuring the tip rib
would take a fair amount of stress with the covering process as well as the
root rib.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 Lists... Oops |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
Thanks for the new sites...........Now, GO AWAY!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Setting the record straight |
Just to set the record straight,
The Listbot Pietenpol list that I started, was started as a possible
alternative to Steve's list. When Steve announced that he was no longer able
to invest so much of his personal time to maintain the old Piet list, I
decided that like it or not, somone was going to have to step up and take
responsibility to keep the forum going. There sure weren't any folks that I
could see lined up to bear this repsponsibility, So I took it on, not liking
it one bit, but feeling like it had to be done by someone.
I informed Steve early on of what I was doing, and he appreciated it, but
already had the deal with Matt going, so he held my list in reserve. With
this, I backed out and didn't promote my list. There are only 4 folks on it
who were helping me test it out, and it's never grown past that.
I think what we all need to do, is grow up and get past all the pettiness
and cute remarks about others interests, age, whatever, and get on with the
business of building Piets. This division of the ranks is exactly what leads
to the demise of discussion groups, work groups, friendships, or any other
thing where people with a different background, but a common interest come
together. I don't think we can afford to lose a single persons viewpoint in
this endeavor, cause with their leaving, we lose a whole lifetime of insight
and wisdom.
For what it's worth, I have started construction on my Piet now, I'm
working on rib number 3 and about to put together jigs for the tailfeathers,
and I've ordered my hinges from Vi Kapler. Hey - I know a good deal when I
see one!
I intend to stay with this list, and I'll sign onto Howard's too, who
knows what I might pick up. But don't expect anything but an echo if you
venture onto my Listbot list, just ain't any activity over there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steve, what have you done? |
We're all still out here Tim! Just busy subscribing to multiple list
servers. One or one-hundred, I'll be there, lurking in the shadows :)
Joe (only got tail hinges) Krzes
>From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve, what have you done?
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:07:29 -0600
>
>
>All I see is comments about the new server. Anything about Pietenpols?
>What happened to the fun?
>Copinfo(at)home.com
>Tim Cunningham
>Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | O T Why a new Piet list? |
This is an OFF TOPIC question ......
The question is regarding the IHA?
I see where the head of the IHA has broken away from our Pietenpol list
and started a new list for the Piet. Similar to what the number two IHA
chief has done with the Ragwing list.
I have belonged to both list since their conception and have gained a
great deal of very useful information on wooden plan construction. I
hate to see this happen to some very helpful groups.
Why would the leadership of the Iha be disruptive to two established
homebuilding list?
Also, does anyone know if the IHa is planning on setting a fee for
membership?
Thanks,
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | O T Why a new Piet list? |
Bruce:
My break away from this list has nothing to do with IHA.... The
list I created is not sponsored by IHA.... It is my own action....
perhaps ill advised.
I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of
many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a
list
host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no
reason for
it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and require
virtually
no time on my part.... If I took off for a year the system would still
be up and
running. Perhaps my reaction to Matt's solicitation for funds was
excessive... As he is apparently running this list from his own server
perhaps he is incurring cost and investing time and deserves
compensation for his work. Mr. Dralle does not hesitate to advertise
his company at the bottom of each message you receive.... That's a
lot of free advertising........
I seem to have succeeded very well in casting myself as a trouble
maker here..... Rock the boat and you get wet. I generally find
myself in the opposite set of shoes serving as peacemaker oh
well.......
I apologize for what discord I have created in the builder
community....
I am totally unaware of the actions of Gordon on the Ragwing
list... didn't even know there was such a list. The Piet_builder list
is not actually an IHA operated list.... This was done on my own. I
presume that Gordon's actions were not attributed to IHA either.
You asked me if IHA had plans to charge dues..... Not if I have
anything to say about it. To date I have turned down over 20 offered
contributions of money on behalf of IHA..... I don't turn down offers
to contribute time to the effort. We operate 9 mailing lists and 2
websites
entirely on a volunteer basis...... Our budget is a big fat ZERO. We
have a board of directors now so I don't have control of the
organization, so I suppose it is possible in the future we will need a
budget and dues if we make the transition from a virtual organization
to a conventional organization. I hope this addresses your questions
adequately.
-----Original Message-----
From: flyer(at)clas.net <flyer(at)clas.net>
Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: O T Why a new Piet list?
>
>This is an OFF TOPIC question ......
>
>The question is regarding the IHA?
>
>I see where the head of the IHA has broken away from our Pietenpol
list
>and started a new list for the Piet. Similar to what the number two
IHA
>chief has done with the Ragwing list.
>
>I have belonged to both list since their conception and have gained a
>great deal of very useful information on wooden plan construction. I
>hate to see this happen to some very helpful groups.
>
>Why would the leadership of the Iha be disruptive to two established
>homebuilding list?
>Also, does anyone know if the IHa is planning on setting a fee for
>membership?
>Thanks,
>Bruce
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O T Why a new Piet list? |
Howard, Thank you for the forthright answers :-)
Bruce
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
>
> Bruce:
> My break away from this list has nothing to do with IHA.... The
> list I created is not sponsored by IHA.... It is my own action....
> perhaps ill advised.
>
Big Snip
>
> You asked me if IHA had plans to charge dues..... Not if I have
> anything to say about it. To date I have turned down over 20 offered
> contributions of money on behalf of IHA..... I don't turn down offers
> to contribute time to the effort. We operate 9 mailing lists and 2
> websites entirely on a volunteer basis...... Our budget is a big fat ZERO.
Snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
does anybody have a corvair motor mt for the pietenpol
that they're not going to use? I have heard of a few
people switching from corvair to continental. I have
listened to lots of pros and cons and have tentitively
come to the conclusion that people like the
continental because they like the sound of the "slow
burbly" engine. everything else leans in favor of the
corvair. durability, power/weight ratio, smoothness,
and since I'm 195 lbs, it is better balanced for me
than an a65. I won't have to move the wing back.
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
With the long fuselage and a A-65 eng, is the wing normally moved back?
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
| Subject: | Del M. (corvair) |
Del:
A friend of mine has a wrecked corvair here in Montana which is
supposed to have a good engine.....I could probably obtain it
reasonably. You could probably get one closer though.
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 7:48 PM
>
>does anybody have a corvair motor mt for the pietenpol
>that they're not going to use? I have heard of a few
>people switching from corvair to continental. I have
>listened to lots of pros and cons and have tentitively
>come to the conclusion that people like the
>continental because they like the sound of the "slow
>burbly" engine. everything else leans in favor of the
>corvair. durability, power/weight ratio, smoothness,
>and since I'm 195 lbs, it is better balanced for me
>than an a65. I won't have to move the wing back.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list? |
>--------------
>
>
>
> I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of
>many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a
>list host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no
>reason for it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and
>require virtually no time on my part.... If I took off for a year
>the system would still be up and running...
>
>
>
> H.W.
>
>--------------
Howard, are you serious with these statements? Is the Internet to you,
and the services found therein, just a big bunch of magic that somehow
happens all by itself and more importantly for free? Just because you
can go-to-the-box and click a few buttons to "be your own list master"
doesn't mean that's all there is to it, for crying out loud! ListBot is
just a service offered by an ISP (oh sorry, Internet Service Provider)
as a come-on to get you to surf over to their web sites, pay them for
connectivity, and buy products from their advertisers. Didn't you know
that there were real computers and real Internet Connections and real
people that run and pay for it all?? Criminy, wakeup and smell the
come-on...
I'm here to tell you that running a well-maintained Internet site is far
from "no-work" and even farther from "no-cost". While I do sell a
product called the FuelScan under the name Matronics and do include a
small reminder in the trailer of each message that my company exists,
don't even think for a minute that somehow the sales generated from it
even comes close to covering the costs involved with running a site such
as this. And really, just exactly how many $1000 fuel flow computers am
I going to sell to Pietenpol Builders?? I certainly mean no offense to
Pietenpol Builders, but really - think about it. The "advertising" scam
I've got going on the List is really raking in the big bucks for me...
N O T!
The only reason I can afford to run this site and pay for the Internet
Connection is through the direct support of the List members. The costs
involved with maintaining my site amount to thousands of dollars per
year - and it comes out of *my* pocket. As I can afford it, I am
constantly upgrading the various pieces of hardware that make up the two
main server machines to provide the fastest service practical. In case
you hadn't noticed, Dual-processor computer systems loaded with memory
and disk space aren't exactly free these days. Ca-$hing - can you say
5-digit capital expenditures? Who do you think exactly pays for that?
Maybe there's a Magic web page out there in the Great Internet Land
where you can just click on a Check Box and press the Submit button and
the hardware just APPEARS on your door step! And maybe there's another
check box for instantly setting up and configuring the latest operating
system, too? Yeah, and maybe monkeys are gonna fly out of my ass. I
must have somehow missed that Magic URL where you can get all that stuff
for free 'cause I've been pulling out my own damn personal credit card
and racking up quite a bill to provide the level of service found here
on my systems. Oh, and did I mention its FREE OF CHARGE to the members?
And all of that doesn't even include the huge amount of personal time I
'invest' in keeping the systems running, doing backups, developing new
utilities like the Archive Search Engine and the Aviation Classified
Section, manually subscribing and unsubscribing people that can't seem
figure out how to type in their email address and click a button on
a web page, and worst of all dealing with uninformed, technically
challenged, ingrates who can't seem to see the value-added in a service
that is provided to them fricken' FREE OF CHARGE!
Howard, maybe you've never been "subjected", as you put it, to a List
where the administrator posted to List because you've never been on a
List where the Administrator gave a shit about the Lists or the people
on them (I refer to the ListBot, certainly not Steve E by the way). And
what about the access to the Archives? I get 200-300 list Archive
searches per day here on my server and nearly as many Archive browses.
Somebody must be finding that those value-added services useful... Oh,
and did I mention that those same Archives have all of the garbage
stripped out so all you don't have to find the message text in 300 lines
of crap? Oh, and did I mention you'll never receive a computer virus
from one of my Lists? Oh, and did I mention I normally don't allow
people to talk this way on my Lists? Oh, and did I mention you get all
of this fricken' FREE OF CHARGE?
As most would attest to on the other Lists I maintain, I'm usually a
pretty mild-mannered fellow and do my best to make peace in the public
forum, but this whole topic has just really annoyed me. People
shouldn't be shooting their mouth off and slamming the hard work and
investment of others, especially when it's obvious they clearly have
their head fully up their own ass. Oh, and did I mention that they get
all of that hard work and investment handed to them FREE OF CHARGE and
yet they still have the gall to bad-mouth it in the public forum?
And now, to literally EVERYONE else that I've received email from either
directly or indirectly, thank you so much for your kind words and
encouragement! The overwhelming consensus has been that my List
operation practices here are quite acceptable and very reasonable and
that its refreshing that a List Administrator would actually have some
rules of conduct, and more importantly take the time and consideration
to really "manage" an email List rather than just set one up on someone
else's machine, call it "their List", and then "take off for a year"...
Anyway, I hope that everyone else will enjoy the List and the services
found here to the fullest extent possible, since your enjoyment is the
reason I do it. I ask for VOLUNTARY contributions only from those that
find the Lists and services useful, informative, and enjoyable. Those
contributions go directly to paying the never ending stream of bills
that are, believe it or not, actually associated with the operation of
Email Lists and Internet Sites.
My best regards to all the Members!
Matt Dralle
10 Year Email List Administrator
dralle(at)matronics.com
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <conolys(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
Hello piet list. Just changed ISPs about the same time we switched over
here. Thanks to Matt
Looks like a nice discussion group.
My new e-mail
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
Somebody holler back - let me know I'm getting out.
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Re: Son of "Setting the record straight" |
>--------------
>
>
>
> I think what we all need to do, is grow up and get past all the pettiness
>and cute remarks about others interests, age, whatever, and get on with the
>business of building Piets. This division of the ranks is exactly what leads
>to the demise of discussion groups, work groups, friendships, or any other
>thing where people with a different background, but a common interest come
>together. I don't think we can afford to lose a single persons viewpoint in
>this endeavor, cause with their leaving, we lose a whole lifetime of insight
>and wisdom.
>
>
>
>--------------
Pietenpol Listers,
Hum, well, Gary here makes a good point. In my previous post, I do
believe I probably broke at least one or two of my own rules of List
Etiquette by going on and on in the public forum about why I had my
feelings hurt. Anyway, I will not waste further bandwidth, but please
accept my apologies.
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>Hello piet list. Just changed ISPs about the same time we switched
>over
>here. Thanks to Matt
>Looks like a nice discussion group.
>
>My new e-mail
>
>bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>
>Somebody holler back - let me know I'm getting out.
>Thanks, Bert
>
>Bert
You're on line! Welcome aboard and, hopefully our happy little band will
be free from the riff-raff that we've been plagued with for the past week
or so.
HEY MATT I guess you just had to get it off your chest but please, don't
lower yourself to the same level. He's not one of us or he'd have
something much more productive to be doing. The mentality that drives
someone to post such drivel certainly makes me want to stay far, far
away.
Thanks for the site!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>With the long fuselage and a A-65 eng, is the wing normally moved
>back?
>Gary
>frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
>
>
>Yes, typically 3-4"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk> |
Does everybody see the message subject preceded by: Pietenpol-List?
I am sure this is unnecessary.
The number of postings seems to have dropped dramatically since the change
over - surely the usefulness of the list is greater than the awkwardness (I
had none - just changed my address book and filters), so perhaps there is
another problem - alien abduction of Piet builders?
Thanks for all the effort Matt - I appreciate the fixing of snags is
probably taking far more time than actually setting up the list did!
Leo Ponton
Nottinghamshire
England
leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Del:
A friend of mine has a wrecked corvair here in
Montana which is
supposed to have a good engine.....I could probably
obtain it
reasonably. You could probably get one closer though.
H.W.
Is this a car or airplane that is wrecked. and are
talking about the engine or engine mount.
thanks del
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
HI BERT!
Where are you, and are you building a Pietenpol?
Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conoly [SMTP:conolys(at)surfsouth.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 12:03 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
>
>
> Hello piet list. Just changed ISPs about the same time we switched over
> here. Thanks to Matt
> Looks like a nice discussion group.
>
> My new e-mail
>
> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>
> Somebody holler back - let me know I'm getting out.
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
--- Gary Leopold wrote:
>
>
> With the long fuselage and a A-65 eng, is the wing
> normally moved back?
> Gary
> frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
>
> the a65 is lighter than the ford A. and so the wing
needs to be moved back to gain back the center of
gravity. the mountings remain the same but the upright
cabane struts are tilted back. some have moved the
engine further forward to compensate.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
Gary, make the motor mount three to four inches longer than the plans and
you will not have to move the wing back as much. I made my mount 3 inches
longer and wish I would have gone one more inch.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Mount |
Del, the Corvair mount is just as easy to build as the one for the
Continental. I see people worried about moving the wing back. First build
the mount longer and the wing will not have to be moved. Second, if you do
have to adjust the wing, it is a simple task to do so. Just make sure the
braces for the front cabanes are adjustable. I did both on my Piet. It
wasn't right on the first flight, so, I adjusted it. 15 minutes work. I
flew it again, made another adjustment and it was perfect. I left the
safety wire off on the test flights. It was there for the inspection, then
removed when the inspector left.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: long fuselage |
The initial position of my wing will be 4" aft of vertical. I'm using
an A-65 with the long fuselage. I'm also raising the cabanes 2" from
plans.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> "Gary Leopold" 11/04 9:39 PM >>>
With the long fuselage and a A-65 eng, is the wing normally moved
back?
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale (fwd) |
Anyone still looking for an A-65? This guy (from the Aeronca list) has a
spare for sale.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:25:02 EST
From: DFadio(at)aol.com
Subject: f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale
To All:
Selling my 1947 Aeronca 7AC: Total restoration in 1997, from ground up, new
wood, fabric, interior, glass, carpet, interior panels, etc. 500 SMOH on Cont
A65, fly's great, needs nothing, annual good through 5/00. Restored to
original colors and markings of that era. Comes with Icom A21 and intercom.
ingeniously mounted, without clutter, and without drilling additional holes!!
Pics can be seen at www.barnstormers.com/. Asking 16,500, also have spare
engine(s), and many spares parts for sale, might do package deal. Email Dave
: Dfadio(at)Aol.Com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AV8TURDON(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale (fwd) |
Hi,
I might be interested if you tell me where your located.
Don Champagne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Howard Wilkinson" <owly(at)mcn.net> |
Sorry Del.... I misread your post.
H.W.
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 5:08 AM
>
>
>Del:
> A friend of mine has a wrecked corvair here in
>Montana which is
>supposed to have a good engine.....I could probably
>obtain it
>reasonably. You could probably get one closer though.
>
> H.W.
>
>Is this a car or airplane that is wrecked. and are
>talking about the engine or engine mount.
>thanks del
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
| Subject: | Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list? |
Matt,
Well, at least you didn't use all cap's!
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
P.S. As I said before, I think the list is great. Thanks for all your
efforts.
>
>
> >--------------
> >
> >
> >
> > I am a member of a fair number of lists and have been a member of
> >many others. I have never been subjected to the kind of posts from a
> >list host Matt has put out to the membership of this list and see no
> >reason for it. The 9 lists I operate on ListBot incur no cost and
> >require virtually no time on my part.... If I took off for a year
> >the system would still be up and running...
> >
> >
> >
> > H.W.
> >
> >--------------
>
>
> Howard, are you serious with these statements? Is the Internet to you,
> and the services found therein, just a big bunch of magic that somehow
> happens all by itself and more importantly for free? Just because you
> can go-to-the-box and click a few buttons to "be your own list master"
> doesn't mean that's all there is to it, for crying out loud! ListBot is
> just a service offered by an ISP (oh sorry, Internet Service Provider)
> as a come-on to get you to surf over to their web sites, pay them for
> connectivity, and buy products from their advertisers. Didn't you know
> that there were real computers and real Internet Connections and real
> people that run and pay for it all?? Criminy, wakeup and smell the
> come-on...
>
> I'm here to tell you that running a well-maintained Internet site is far
> from "no-work" and even farther from "no-cost". While I do sell a
> product called the FuelScan under the name Matronics and do include a
> small reminder in the trailer of each message that my company exists,
> don't even think for a minute that somehow the sales generated from it
> even comes close to covering the costs involved with running a site such
> as this. And really, just exactly how many $1000 fuel flow computers am
> I going to sell to Pietenpol Builders?? I certainly mean no offense to
> Pietenpol Builders, but really - think about it. The "advertising" scam
> I've got going on the List is really raking in the big bucks for me...
> N O T!
>
> The only reason I can afford to run this site and pay for the Internet
> Connection is through the direct support of the List members. The costs
> involved with maintaining my site amount to thousands of dollars per
> year - and it comes out of *my* pocket. As I can afford it, I am
> constantly upgrading the various pieces of hardware that make up the two
> main server machines to provide the fastest service practical. In case
> you hadn't noticed, Dual-processor computer systems loaded with memory
> and disk space aren't exactly free these days. Ca-$hing - can you say
> 5-digit capital expenditures? Who do you think exactly pays for that?
> Maybe there's a Magic web page out there in the Great Internet Land
> where you can just click on a Check Box and press the Submit button and
> the hardware just APPEARS on your door step! And maybe there's another
> check box for instantly setting up and configuring the latest operating
> system, too? Yeah, and maybe monkeys are gonna fly out of my ass. I
> must have somehow missed that Magic URL where you can get all that stuff
> for free 'cause I've been pulling out my own damn personal credit card
> and racking up quite a bill to provide the level of service found here
> on my systems. Oh, and did I mention its FREE OF CHARGE to the members?
>
> And all of that doesn't even include the huge amount of personal time I
> 'invest' in keeping the systems running, doing backups, developing new
> utilities like the Archive Search Engine and the Aviation Classified
> Section, manually subscribing and unsubscribing people that can't seem
> figure out how to type in their email address and click a button on
> a web page, and worst of all dealing with uninformed, technically
> challenged, ingrates who can't seem to see the value-added in a service
> that is provided to them fricken' FREE OF CHARGE!
>
> Howard, maybe you've never been "subjected", as you put it, to a List
> where the administrator posted to List because you've never been on a
> List where the Administrator gave a shit about the Lists or the people
> on them (I refer to the ListBot, certainly not Steve E by the way). And
> what about the access to the Archives? I get 200-300 list Archive
> searches per day here on my server and nearly as many Archive browses.
> Somebody must be finding that those value-added services useful... Oh,
> and did I mention that those same Archives have all of the garbage
> stripped out so all you don't have to find the message text in 300 lines
> of crap? Oh, and did I mention you'll never receive a computer virus
> from one of my Lists? Oh, and did I mention I normally don't allow
> people to talk this way on my Lists? Oh, and did I mention you get all
> of this fricken' FREE OF CHARGE?
>
> As most would attest to on the other Lists I maintain, I'm usually a
> pretty mild-mannered fellow and do my best to make peace in the public
> forum, but this whole topic has just really annoyed me. People
> shouldn't be shooting their mouth off and slamming the hard work and
> investment of others, especially when it's obvious they clearly have
> their head fully up their own ass. Oh, and did I mention that they get
> all of that hard work and investment handed to them FREE OF CHARGE and
> yet they still have the gall to bad-mouth it in the public forum?
>
>
> And now, to literally EVERYONE else that I've received email from either
> directly or indirectly, thank you so much for your kind words and
> encouragement! The overwhelming consensus has been that my List
> operation practices here are quite acceptable and very reasonable and
> that its refreshing that a List Administrator would actually have some
> rules of conduct, and more importantly take the time and consideration
> to really "manage" an email List rather than just set one up on someone
> else's machine, call it "their List", and then "take off for a year"...
>
> Anyway, I hope that everyone else will enjoy the List and the services
> found here to the fullest extent possible, since your enjoyment is the
> reason I do it. I ask for VOLUNTARY contributions only from those that
> find the Lists and services useful, informative, and enjoyable. Those
> contributions go directly to paying the never ending stream of bills
> that are, believe it or not, actually associated with the operation of
> Email Lists and Internet Sites.
>
> My best regards to all the Members!
>
> Matt Dralle
> 10 Year Email List Administrator
> dralle(at)matronics.com
>
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Son of "Setting the record straight" |
Apology excepted....
Feels good to rant once in awhile doesn't it?
I can associate with you.... And it's hard to appreciate the value of
something FREE.
I'm an electronic engineer by trade and also do quite a bit of programming.
I do all the network admin stuff for our small
school district. This saves them money that can go to do better things for
the kids. But the next time someone complains
because 'it was about time I got that done!' After I put in a full days
work at my job then work on the schools network
until 2 am or all weekend, I'm definitely going to rant a little.
Greg Yotz
(trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale (fwd) |
How much??
Steve
writes:
>
>
> Anyone still looking for an A-65? This guy (from the Aeronca list)
> has a
> spare for sale.
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:25:02 EST
> From: DFadio(at)aol.com
> To: rodkey(at)westmont.edu
> Subject: f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale
>
> To All:
>
> Selling my 1947 Aeronca 7AC: Total restoration in 1997, from ground
> up, new
> wood, fabric, interior, glass, carpet, interior panels, etc. 500
> SMOH on Cont
> A65, fly's great, needs nothing, annual good through 5/00. Restored
> to
> original colors and markings of that era. Comes with Icom A21 and
> intercom.
> ingeniously mounted, without clutter, and without drilling
> additional holes!!
> Pics can be seen at www.barnstormers.com/. Asking 16,500, also have
> spare
> engine(s), and many spares parts for sale, might do package deal.
> Email Dave
> : Dfadio(at)Aol.Com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: f-AA: Aeronca Champ 7AC For Sale (fwd) |
In a message dated 11/5/1999 9:07:26 AM Central Standard Time,
AV8TURDON(at)aol.com writes:
<< I might be interested if you tell me where your located. >>
In Westminister, MD per ad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 Lists... Oops |
Howard Wilkinson wrote:
>
>
> Now that I've been thoroughly castigated for criticizing this Mr..
> Dralle's heavy handed list management tactics.... 2 pages of
> etiquette BS and a fund raiser of all things..........
Buddy, if you are so unhappy go away! No one is forcing you to
read the list etiquett or donate money to the list. The computer
came with a delete button for a reason.
The list WILL continue with or without you......and if you are
going to piss and moan about a free service I'd prefer without.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 driver
Piet driver wannabee
Sending Matt 20 bucks tomorrow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How much and how long |
Lawrence V Williams wrote:
>
>
> Craig
>
> Looks like it'll be about $5000 and 6 years for mine. That's less than a
> grand per year. Pretty good way to constructively fill spare time.
>
> If you're the kind of person that needs to have everything collected
> prior to beginning the project, it could cost a whole lot more than if
> you can take it a little at a time and pick up stuff as you go.
>
> There are all sorts of ideas and ingeneous ways to do things that seem to
> pop up just when I need them. The annual reunion at Brodhead has a wealth
> of ideas and sometimes a few Piet-related parts for sale. There are also
> partially completed projects that sell for less than the cost of parts.
> Maybe they're good, maybe not.
>
> Your best bet is to get some plans from Don Pietenpol, buy some wood and
> glue and have-at-it. As you build and talk to others and get into the
> "group" things will become obvious and "deals" will materialize. It's an
> amazing thing!
>
> Keep monitoring this list and the BPA web page (if Grant ever surfaces
> again) and look around. There are about 30 Piets registered in FL so
> there should be one or two around you. Make the pilgrammage to Mecca,
> er....I mean Brodhead, and keep your eyes open.
>
> Best of luck
>
> Larry
>
>
Larry
Where is Brodhead? must be a yearly gathering of Piet builders.
Also, how is the construction manuel?
The RV manuel did leave a little to be desired.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Actually, this is a nice feature for those of us recieving mail from other
lists and using our personal or business mail systems. It's lice to be
able to scroll down the index of new e-mail and just pick up the non list
stuff for reading when you're tight on time.
Thanks,
Ken
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Leo Ponton wrote:
>
> Does everybody see the message subject preceded by: Pietenpol-List?
>
> I am sure this is unnecessary.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | f-AA: 0200 (fwd) |
And, here's another from the Aeronca list.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 07:04:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "R@D AVIATION" <steuber(at)gv.net>
Subject: f-AA: 0200
I have a complete 0200 with 1830 smoh includes prop etc. you can hear it run
as it is still on the plane. Replacing it with an 0320. Price is $4500. FOB
Grass Valley Ca. write for more details.
Robert,
who is being non-political for a while.
Web page: www.gv.net/~steuber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
:
>
>
> Greg Yotz wrote:
>
>> (trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
>>
>> I hear talks of rigging and fabric selection and coverings but
>> can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this being
>> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to test
>> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does not
>> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
>> coverings.
>
> regards
> JoeC
> Zion, Illinois
> ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
>--------------
>Does everybody see the message subject preceded by: Pietenpol-List?
>
>I am sure this is unnecessary.
>
>Leo Ponton
>--------------
Yes, this is by design. There are a number of reasons its handy to have
that string in the Subject line. First, as someone already pointed out,
its handy for picking out List messages from the other email. Also, if
you are subscribed to more than one List here, it makes it really easy
to distingiusih between the various Lists email by just glancing at the
Subject. It is also a very unique string (e.g. "Pietenpol-List: ") that
can be used for building incoming email filters or for creating delete
filters. Note that I strip it from the archives as well as the URL
trailer text.
Glad to see some traffic on the List today - some of it was even
Pietenpol related! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
Matt;
I hate it when you hold back like that . Please get it off your
chest.!!
Maybe we can go back to flying now.
Ted. T
P.S. thanks for the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
Joe,
Pre-cover inspections are not required by the FAA anymore. But what I did
on the first ( even though it was a U/L) , and will do on the Piet, is to
have one or more set of eyes, that you trust, give it a good look. If
nothing else it will give you peace of mind.
The word in the streets ( or on the tarmac) is to take lots of photos and
have the paperwork in order.
walt evans
ps Be using my first turnbuckles in two days, to square up the right wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 2:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: pre cover insp
>
>
>:
>
>>
>>
>> Greg Yotz wrote:
>>
>>> (trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
>>>
>>> I hear talks of rigging and fabric selection and coverings but
>>> can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this being
>>> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to test
>>> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does not
>>> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
>>> coverings.
>>
>> regards
>> JoeC
>> Zion, Illinois
>> ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Joe, you only need to have a final inspection. Pre-Inspections went away
when the FAA used to help people (if they ever did). Have pictures
available for them to show your work though. I think you'll find your dog
more helpful than the FAA in answering any questions. They're useless.
You'll find any agency theat has Feredal in its name equally usless.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510
can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this being
> >> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to test
> >> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does not
> >> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
> >> coverings.
> >
> > regards
> > JoeC
> > Zion, Illinois
> > ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <conolys(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
Hi Jack:
I am about 40 miles north of Tallahassee, Fla. In South Ga (Bainbridge)
Yeah, sort of! I have a GN-1 project underway. 4 years into it with ribs
complete - fuse is 95% , tail feathers complete, sitting on the gear. I'll
start installation of my controls etc next week. Slow going but w/ three
teenagers, a hour commute to work, and a part time business on the side, I
guess I am doing ok.
There are three Piets within a few miles from here, so I have lots of moral
support.
How about you?
Bert
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips (EUS) <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
>
>HI BERT!
>
>Where are you, and are you building a Pietenpol?
>
> Jack
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Conoly [SMTP:conolys(at)surfsouth.com]
>> Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 12:03 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
>>
>>
>> Hello piet list. Just changed ISPs about the same time we switched over
>> here. Thanks to Matt
>> Looks like a nice discussion group.
>>
>> My new e-mail
>>
>> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>>
>> Somebody holler back - let me know I'm getting out.
>> Thanks, Bert
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
Hi Bert you're loud and clear. I'll get back to you off-list re: your visit
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <conolys(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard |
Does anybody know where we can get a placard for a Pietenpol? A friend here
(Larry Harrison) is making tremendous headway on his Scout project. The
Scout now has
a covered and paainted wing. Fuselage is complete and painted. Engine is
built and ready to mount.
So he asked me to try and find where he can get a "placard" to mount in the
instrument panel.
You know - the ones that say "BH Pietenpol Company" (Or something like
that)
It seems like I saw some once on the net but for the life of me I cannott
remember where.
Some of you may remember Larry as the builder/owner/pilot of "Poplar Piet".
Yes it's flying nearly every day and the Chevy engine is doing great.
Probably 175 to 200 hours on it now. However it's younger brother (the
Scout) is about to hatch.
If somebody can tell us where to find a placard I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Bert
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard |
Check the aircamper.org listing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Conoly <conolys(at)surfsouth.com>
Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 9:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard
>
>
>Does anybody know where we can get a placard for a Pietenpol? A friend
here
>(Larry Harrison) is making tremendous headway on his Scout project. The
>Scout now has
>a covered and paainted wing. Fuselage is complete and painted. Engine is
>built and ready to mount.
>So he asked me to try and find where he can get a "placard" to mount in
the
>instrument panel.
>You know - the ones that say "BH Pietenpol Company" (Or something like
>that)
>It seems like I saw some once on the net but for the life of me I cannott
>remember where.
>
>Some of you may remember Larry as the builder/owner/pilot of "Poplar Piet".
>Yes it's flying nearly every day and the Chevy engine is doing great.
>Probably 175 to 200 hours on it now. However it's younger brother (the
>Scout) is about to hatch.
>
>If somebody can tell us where to find a placard I would appreciate it.
>Thanks,
>
>Bert
>bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Dahlstrom" <rgdahl(at)THEBEST.NET> |
| Subject: | Does it make sense? |
Greetings All
I've been learning a lot listening to you folks, and am wondering if anyone
can give me an idea whether or not I'm on to the right project. I'm
thinking about an aircamper with the corvair in front. My main concern is
my height and weight. I like the plane, but you know how it is. 3000 hours
of building to not be able to fly it would be... I'd rather not even think
it. The gist is, 240 and 6'5". Doable?
Thanks in advance,
Roy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does it make sense? |
I'm not into it far enough to have experienced
everything first hand. but this is what I've learned
from listening. I dont believe that you'd have any
problems. go with the corvair or cont 200 to have the
extra power and weight out front. and many have
modified the fuse to 2" wider and also the turtle deck
taller for more back support. you'd have to watch
passenger and fuel weight closer. I think this plane
can be built in 1000 hrs, depending how detailed you
get.
--- Roy Dahlstrom wrote:
> Dahlstrom"
>
> Greetings All
>
> I've been learning a lot listening to you folks, and
> am wondering if anyone
> can give me an idea whether or not I'm on to the
> right project. I'm
> thinking about an aircamper with the corvair in
> front. My main concern is
> my height and weight. I like the plane, but you
> know how it is. 3000 hours
> of building to not be able to fly it would be... I'd
> rather not even think
> it. The gist is, 240 and 6'5". Doable?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Roy
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does it make sense? |
If I were you I would use the long fuselage plans and 3 piece wing and make
the cutout in the centersection.You can adjust the wing to get cg right.Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Dahlstrom <rgdahl(at)THEBEST.NET>
Date: Saturday, November 06, 1999 7:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Does it make sense?
>
>Greetings All
>
>I've been learning a lot listening to you folks, and am wondering if anyone
>can give me an idea whether or not I'm on to the right project. I'm
>thinking about an aircamper with the corvair in front. My main concern is
>my height and weight. I like the plane, but you know how it is. 3000
hours
>of building to not be able to fly it would be... I'd rather not even think
>it. The gist is, 240 and 6'5". Doable?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Roy
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Answer to Bruce: Re: Why a new Piet list? |
Matt
Do you really expect us to read an Email that is that long?
Lets get off of the reasons/blame/considerations etc. everyone needs to
do what they want to do and not burden everyone else with their angst.
I will join any and all Pietenpol lists because I'm in it for content.
Now you guys have ME doing it.
Gee Whiz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: Does it make sense? |
Roy,
I'm doing an Aircamper at 115% for just that reason. I figure that if
they can do a 7/8s mustang or a 75% SE-5, I can do a "scale" replica of
a Peitenpol Aircamper just a little bigger. It will be about the same
size as a Citabria. I figure on using a 320 cu in Lycoming or a 300 cu
in Ford inline six cylinder pickup truck engine, depending on how
perverse I'm feeling when the time comes.
Lauren
________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List message posted by: childsway@indian-creek.net
Rodger Childs
Ref. 115% Pietenpol by Lauren Williams.
Lauren,
A Piet on steriods even, but then it wouldn't really be a Pietenpol,
would it?
But not a bad idea or too far fetched, however, look to increasing
strength of critical components by 15% or more too. And the attach
points for the lift struts at the lower longerons, consider doing
something like welding a strap of 4130-N 1/8" X 3" wide across the
fuselage bottom to tie the opposite fittings together, not into wood
as the print says. And the straps at the spars where the lift struts
attach, change the angle from being so 'upright' to about 30 deg. to
be more inline with the lift struts themselves.
Being that the Pietenpol is a bit heavy for it's size, which translates
to being a little stronger, 115% is a neat idea. Do watch the weight
though, of the aircraft that is, it goes up too easy.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 115% Pietenpol |
Rodger,
Those things that you mention, are already on the prints. Strap not that
thick though.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Date: Saturday, November 06, 1999 8:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 115% Pietenpol
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Pietenpol-List message posted by: childsway@indian-creek.net
> Rodger Childs
>
>Ref. 115% Pietenpol by Lauren Williams.
>
>Lauren,
>
>A Piet on steriods even, but then it wouldn't really be a Pietenpol,
>would it?
>
>But not a bad idea or too far fetched, however, look to increasing
>strength of critical components by 15% or more too. And the attach
>points for the lift struts at the lower longerons, consider doing
>something like welding a strap of 4130-N 1/8" X 3" wide across the
>fuselage bottom to tie the opposite fittings together, not into wood
>as the print says. And the straps at the spars where the lift struts
>attach, change the angle from being so 'upright' to about 30 deg. to
>be more inline with the lift struts themselves.
>
>Being that the Pietenpol is a bit heavy for it's size, which translates
>to being a little stronger, 115% is a neat idea. Do watch the weight
>though, of the aircraft that is, it goes up too easy.
>
>Rodger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kyle ray" <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
Has anyone tried golf cart wheels and does anyone know the axle
size of golf cart wheels?
russell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Stacy <stacyprint(at)mcleodusa.net> |
Greetings!
Is there more than one type of Corvair engine? and which one is the best
to use in the aircamper? Is there one that should definitely NOT be
used? How does the Corvair measure up to the A and Continental?
Thanks,
Ryan Stacy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Dahlstrom" <rgdahl(at)THEBEST.NET> |
| Subject: | Re: Does it make sense? |
Thanks Del, to you and all the others who have responded to my question.
I've got lots to consider based on these answers, all of which seem sound.
1000 hours sounds better than what I was thinking.
Roy
----- Original Message -----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Does it make sense?
>
> I'm not into it far enough to have experienced
> everything first hand. but this is what I've learned
> from listening. I dont believe that you'd have any
> problems. go with the corvair or cont 200 to have the
> extra power and weight out front. and many have
> modified the fuse to 2" wider and also the turtle deck
> taller for more back support. you'd have to watch
> passenger and fuel weight closer. I think this plane
> can be built in 1000 hrs, depending how detailed you
> get.
>
> --- Roy Dahlstrom wrote:
> > Dahlstrom"
> >
> > Greetings All
> >
> > I've been learning a lot listening to you folks, and
> > am wondering if anyone
> > can give me an idea whether or not I'm on to the
> > right project. I'm
> > thinking about an aircamper with the corvair in
> > front. My main concern is
> > my height and weight. I like the plane, but you
> > know how it is. 3000 hours
> > of building to not be able to fly it would be... I'd
> > rather not even think
> > it. The gist is, 240 and 6'5". Doable?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Roy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > makers of fine Aircraft
> > Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> > List members.
> >
> >
> > Matronics:
> > http://www.matronics.com
> > Pietenpol-List:
> > Archive Search Engine:
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > Archive Browsing:
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/other
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing const. knots to it |
In a message dated 11/4/99 3:39:02 PM Central Standard Time,
Replicraft(at)aol.com writes:
<< Joe-
You are correct.
I added the ply to the tip ribs also (as per the butt rib design). It is a
personal preference. I did not see what it would hurt, figuring the tip rib
would take a fair amount of stress with the covering process as well as the
root rib.
Steve >>
Steve, I don't understand you're thinking here. The vertical sticks in the
tip ribs are there to maintain the integrity of the tip rib during the
covering process, and anything else out there on the tips would only tend to
degrade the roll rate of the plane, as well as adding total weight. I built
my wing to the plans, and covered it with Stits 2.7oz homebuilders fabric,
shrunk it according to the stits process, and there is absolutely no
deformation in the tip rib. The fabric is glued at the leading edge, and
the trailing edge, and the wingtip bows, DO NOT GLUE to the rib capstrips, as
this WILL deform the ribs. During the shrinking process, the fabric has to
have the ability to scoot along, and across, the capstrips.
I have 6 ribs stitched, and 22 to go, plus 1/2 rib behind the fiberglass fuel
cell.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
Yes there is certain ones to use. and then there are
modifications to do. I have a set of plans from
william wynn from florida. in fact I now have 2 sets.
I bought one previously, and then recieved another
with a corvair engine I bought. I could sell one set.
you could also visit his website. when it is done
properly it is a strong engine. very smooth and
dependable.
--- Ryan Stacy wrote:
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> Is there more than one type of Corvair engine? and
> which one is the best
> to use in the aircamper? Is there one that should
> definitely NOT be
> used? How does the Corvair measure up to the A and
> Continental?
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan Stacy
>
>
>
>
>
> makers of fine Aircraft
> Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> List members.
>
>
> Matronics:
> http://www.matronics.com
> Pietenpol-List:
> Archive Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> Archive Browsing:
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/other
>
>
>
>
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Stacy <stacyprint(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine |
And what is the address for william wynn's web site?
del magsam wrote:
>
> Yes there is certain ones to use. and then there are
> modifications to do. I have a set of plans from
> william wynn from florida. in fact I now have 2 sets.
> I bought one previously, and then recieved another
> with a corvair engine I bought. I could sell one set.
> you could also visit his website. when it is done
> properly it is a strong engine. very smooth and
> dependable.
>
> --- Ryan Stacy wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greetings!
> >
> > Is there more than one type of Corvair engine? and
> > which one is the best
> > to use in the aircamper? Is there one that should
> > definitely NOT be
> > used? How does the Corvair measure up to the A and
> > Continental?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ryan Stacy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > makers of fine Aircraft
> > Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> > List members.
> >
> >
> > Matronics:
> > http://www.matronics.com
> > Pietenpol-List:
> > Archive Search Engine:
> > http://www.matronics.com/search
> > Archive Browsing:
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/other
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Stacy <stacyprint(at)mcleodusa.net> |
Del,
Thanks for the information. I haven't even gotten started yet, but I
might be interested in those plans if you'll let me know how much.
A neighbor of mine has several Corvair engines and lots of parts. He
wants to sell the whole shooting match. At least two of the
engines are in running condition right now, but I'm afraid to make him
an offer on them not knowing which one I need to have.
I'd appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engines |
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/index.html
this is a corvair page that has other links including
william wynns. take a look.
--- Ryan Stacy wrote:
>
>
> Del,
>
> Thanks for the information. I haven't even gotten
> started yet, but I
> might be interested in those plans if you'll let me
> know how much.
> A neighbor of mine has several Corvair engines and
> lots of parts. He
> wants to sell the whole shooting match. At least two
> of the
> engines are in running condition right now, but I'm
> afraid to make him
> an offer on them not knowing which one I need to
> have.
>
> I'd appreciate any help.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
> makers of fine Aircraft
> Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> List members.
>
>
> Matronics:
> http://www.matronics.com
> Pietenpol-List:
> Archive Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> Archive Browsing:
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/other
>
>
>
>
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engines |
you would want one that is not running because most of
the parts get replaced except for the heads,crank,and
crank case. the engine used is 110hp from64 to69.
there are certain serial numbers to look for.
del
--- Ryan Stacy wrote:
>
>
> Del,
>
> Thanks for the information. I haven't even gotten
> started yet, but I
> might be interested in those plans if you'll let me
> know how much.
> A neighbor of mine has several Corvair engines and
> lots of parts. He
> wants to sell the whole shooting match. At least two
> of the
> engines are in running condition right now, but I'm
> afraid to make him
> an offer on them not knowing which one I need to
> have.
>
> I'd appreciate any help.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
> makers of fine Aircraft
> Avionics, and by the generous Contributions of
> List members.
>
>
> Matronics:
> http://www.matronics.com
> Pietenpol-List:
> Archive Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> Archive Browsing:
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/other
>
>
>
>
>
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylph" <sylph(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Engine Info |
Ryan,
Go to the aircamper.org site and you'll find what you're looking for:
http://www.aircamper.org/Links.cfm
Michael
Wing jig in Portland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Does it make sense? |
I wrote to the guy who sells plans for the GN-1 Aircamper, and told him my
height and weight, he wrote me back saying I was too big, and too heavy.
One might also consider that B. Pietenpol was supposed to be a man of quite
small stature, and he built the plane accordingly.
My plane is a Pober super ace, and at 6'3" and 250 lbs, I have had to widen
the fuse, by 2", and relocate the rudder pedals foreward at least 6 ".
Try to find a piet in your area and then maybe sit in it. I got a good look
at a piet near my home, and it was too small for my oversize body.
Being big is no party...
Best
Bob
>From: "Roy Dahlstrom" <rgdahl(at)THEBEST.NET>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Does it make sense?
>Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:10:18 -0500
>
>
>Greetings All
>
>I've been learning a lot listening to you folks, and am wondering if anyone
>can give me an idea whether or not I'm on to the right project. I'm
>thinking about an aircamper with the corvair in front. My main concern is
>my height and weight. I like the plane, but you know how it is. 3000
>hours
>of building to not be able to fly it would be... I'd rather not even think
>it. The gist is, 240 and 6'5". Doable?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Roy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I took a walk arount the local airplot the other day looking at tire on
airplanes and found a set on a big tirbine twin of size 18x5.5 goodyear.
They were tall, looked like they held lots of air, and I think they would
look good on a piet type craft.
Problen is, I can't find them in wicks, or acs. Where does a guy find these
tires? How much are they?
Do these tires seem practical?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airplane tires |
Bob,
You surely could find those tires somewhere in a Trade-A-Plane, but I'm
afraid they're gonna be real expensive. Those things are also pretty heavy,
since they're designed for high weights, speeds and pressures, they might
not be the best choice for a Piet, but you're right, they sure look cool!
Gary Meadows
Rib #3 Done, #4 in the jig, 4 more sticks bending, and all rib sticks cut
(it's starting to feel real...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Too Big an Oil Can? |
Bob,
Think of it this way, when Dan Blocker, who played Hoss Cartwright on
Bonanza, rode off with the rest, notice that he rode on a much
larger horse.
Get some scrap wood, build a mockup of the cockpit area and adjust as
necessary to your personal size. Also keep in mind that if you make it
as a two seater, the second person can only weigh around 110 lbs or so.
And even at that you would need to watch the density altitude.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How much and how long |
Craig,
We had hoped to build our Piet, A Model A powered one, for $4500. Now
that we're beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel I believe
it will cost somewhere around $5000 to $5500. This project is a
partnership with three members, so the cost os split three ways. Time
wise, we're approaching eight years, but there were some periods of
inactivity. The goal now is to have it flying by the end of next summer.
I'm an A&P mechanic with an A.I. and know a number of people. I've also
worked for Mooney Aircraft for a number of years and worked for a Mooney
used aircraft dealer for awhile. Because of this, I have been able to
scrounge up a few parts over the years. I've inherited two sets of J-3
lift struts, one of which the owner went through all sorts of gyrations
proving they weren't corroded before he went and bought new struts
anyway. I also scarfed up an altimeter from Mooney when the buyer was
from Europe and needed a millibar altimeter instead of an inches of
mercury one. And I got two sets of seat belts from Mooney owners who
removed them in favor of shoulder harness seat belts, and I retrieved two
older and really light brake master cylinders from a Mooney that needed
to replace them. The owner didn't want to repair the old units. One
doesn't work, but I can still get the parts ('O' rings) and make it work.
I even have an old scratched up windshield which I can cut down and
polish for our plane. I have been able to get a Micro Mesh kit from
where I work now to polish it with. It really helps to be able to look
around and get to know people. Go to airshow flea markets - I got some
good deals there. Just take time and look around.
John Langston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard |
Bert Conoly...When I didn't see any response to your request for a source on
the Piet instrument panel placard I dug into my BPAN back issues and found
info on the one you describe. I bought one and have it on my panel. The
article is on page 3 of the 2nd quarter 1990. Perhaps others on the list
would also like to have the details. Have Larry write to Brian Amato, 3871
Whispering Oaks Drive, Traverse City, Mi. 49684 (no phone # available) His
price at that time was $7.50 including postage. It is quite well done and
worth the price, even if he has gone up a bit. For anyone getting started on
building a Piet I strongly suggest you try to get all of the back issues of
the BPAN you can. The first issue was in 1983 and there have been 4 issues
per month to date but it will be discontinued at the end of the year unless
someone steps up to continue it. Virtually every question I have see come
through from the list has been answered or at least addressed in the back
issues. Contact BPAN editor Grant McLaren to see if he still has some
available
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Has anyone made any joysticks from wood. If so how did you construct them?.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
Hi Joe, it's Gene. Still working (kinda) on the Piet. Spent most of the
last year on the Travel Air, didnt make it to Brodhead-Pietenpol, but made
it to Brodhead Grassroots. Let me knoe what is going on. (btw, I probably
won't use the seat belts you sent, got any buyers?)
----------
> From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: pre cover insp
> Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 2:02 PM
>
>
>
> :
>
> >
> >
> > Greg Yotz wrote:
> >
> >> (trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
> >>
> >> I hear talks of rigging and fabric selection and coverings but
> >> can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this being
> >> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to test
> >> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does not
> >> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
> >> coverings.
> >
> > regards
> > JoeC
> > Zion, Illinois
> > ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there? |
Bert, I live in Washington, DC, but I am from Thomasville, went to FSU, so
we're old neighbors. I got a Travel Air up here, used to keep it at Quincy
. . . there was a guy there at the time who built a Piet, crashed it into
the hangars or something like that. I am building one now, hope tohave
better luck, though. Gene
----------
> From: Conoly <conolys(at)surfsouth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
> Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 8:06 PM
>
>
> Hi Jack:
>
> I am about 40 miles north of Tallahassee, Fla. In South Ga (Bainbridge)
> Yeah, sort of! I have a GN-1 project underway. 4 years into it with
ribs
> complete - fuse is 95% , tail feathers complete, sitting on the gear.
I'll
> start installation of my controls etc next week. Slow going but w/ three
> teenagers, a hour commute to work, and a part time business on the side,
I
> guess I am doing ok.
>
> There are three Piets within a few miles from here, so I have lots of
moral
> support.
> How about you?
> Bert
> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Phillips (EUS) <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Date: Friday, November 05, 1999 7:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
>
>
>
> >
> >HI BERT!
> >
> >Where are you, and are you building a Pietenpol?
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Conoly [SMTP:conolys(at)surfsouth.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 12:03 AM
> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Testing - 1,2,3, Any body out there?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello piet list. Just changed ISPs about the same time we switched
over
> >> here. Thanks to Matt
> >> Looks like a nice discussion group.
> >>
> >> My new e-mail
> >>
> >> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
> >>
> >> Somebody holler back - let me know I'm getting out.
> >> Thanks, Bert
> >>
> >>
> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wood joysticks |
Gary Leopold wrote:
> Has anyone made any joysticks from wood. If so how did you construct them?.
don't remember who it was but I seen a piet at brodhead with joysticks made of
what
looked like to be ax handles---very different and you know how strong hickory is.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Three piece wing fittings and header tank plumbing |
AirCampers,
First time out of the chute for me here.
I have a long fuse Piet on the gear here in beautiful Boulder, Colorado.
I am working on the three piece wing fittings at this time. I have the
wood center piece constructed and am working on the metal fittings. Does
anyone know how they fit together? From studying the photos I cannot make
out how the fittings go together. The straps seem to be the same distance
apart.
Also, I am piecing together the tubing between the header tank and the
gascolator. Can I run tubing back past the passenger so that I can use the
shut off valve without having to attach an extension? I have purchased a
mini-valve fromm Aircraft Spruce and hope to use two of them.
I am using a Corvair.
Crosby
________________________________________________________________________________
Ref. Wood joysticks
I once saw a Stearman bipe with wood joysticks made from baseball bats
which had been turned down on the big end to fit into a socket on the
control system, looked great.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pasley" <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Three piece wing fittings and header tank plumbing |
Is there a reason you had rather have gas running past the passenger than an
extention? Mine has an extension and works fine. Seems a little safer to me.
Thanks, Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <AKROZBI(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Three piece wing fittings and header tank plumbing
>
> AirCampers,
> First time out of the chute for me here.
> I have a long fuse Piet on the gear here in beautiful Boulder,
Colorado.
> I am working on the three piece wing fittings at this time. I have
the
> wood center piece constructed and am working on the metal fittings. Does
> anyone know how they fit together? From studying the photos I cannot make
> out how the fittings go together. The straps seem to be the same distance
> apart.
> Also, I am piecing together the tubing between the header tank and
the
> gascolator. Can I run tubing back past the passenger so that I can use
the
> shut off valve without having to attach an extension? I have purchased a
> mini-valve fromm Aircraft Spruce and hope to use two of them.
> I am using a Corvair.
> Crosby
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
Hi Joe,
The FAA no longer requires pre-cover inspections (since 1983). There is a
pretty good article on the FAA requirements in this month's Sport Aviation.
Another good source of info on the legalities of custom built aircraft is
the EAA's book "Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook", available form EAA
for $14.95.
You can contact EAA to find the closest Tech Counselor, or the local FAA
FSDO can provide you with a list of DARs (Designated Aviation
Representatives) who are not FAA employees, but are designated by them to
inspect aircraft. They will charge you between $300 and $400 to look at
your project, but it's a good idea to have somebody look at it who knows
what to look for. I'm sure you're a careful builder, but everybody makes
mistakes and it's much better to find the mistakes before cover than in the
air. I talked to a DAR once who said he had never looked at a project
without finding at least one nut that hadn't been cotter-pinned or a
turnbuckle that hadn't been safety wired. I know I've looked at my wing
several times and realized that some of the fittings were bolted and torqued
down, but no cotter pins installed. It's easy to do.
Good Luck,
Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fishin [SMTP:fishin(at)wwa.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 2:02 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: pre cover insp
>
>
>
> :
>
> >
> >
> > Greg Yotz wrote:
> >
> >> (trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
> >>
> >> I hear talks of rigging and fabric selection and coverings but
> >> can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this being
> >> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to test
> >> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does not
> >> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
> >> coverings.
> >
> > regards
> > JoeC
> > Zion, Illinois
> > ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood joysticks |
A lot of '20s biplanes had wooden sticks . . Wacos, Stearmans, etc. I'm
not sure they were "baseball bats" "axe handles" or anything else, but just
turned oak sticks. I had a friend get killed when the wooden stick broke
off in a Waco during aerobatics. That being aside, I would think twice
about a wooden stick in a Piet simply because the control cables attach to
the stick itself, above the hinge point. If you are going by the old
plans, both the elevator AND the ailerons attach up high. Purely from an
overly cautious standpoint, that does not sound like a good idea. In
addition, Waco/Stearman sticks are over 2" in diameter, a wooden stick as
small as a Piet wouldn't be all that strong.
----------
> From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood joysticks
> Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 10:51 PM
>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Ref. Wood joysticks
>
> I once saw a Stearman bipe with wood joysticks made from baseball bats
> which had been turned down on the big end to fit into a socket on the
> control system, looked great.
>
> Rodger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
-Check onto the EAA website and you can find a list of advisors.
Since you don't have one in your area you might have to pay for
an inspection. Just before covering sounds like the place to do
it. If you ever want someone else to review all that you've
done, do it before you cover. It'll also give you additional
support in your log for that single FAA inspection at the end.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
>>
>> Greg Yotz wrote:
>>
>>> (trying to rig and get ready for fabric)
>>>
>>> I hear talks of rigging and fabric selection and coverings
but
>>> can't recall any talk of pre-covering inspections. is this
being
>>> done and by who or is the only inspection the one prior to
test
>>> flights...the reason for my question is that my chapter does
not
>>> have a tech advisor and I'm not that far away from thinking
>>> coverings.
>>
>> regards
>> JoeC
>> Zion, Illinois
>> ps--if you haven't guessed, this is my first project
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: pre cover insp |
I realize that teh original poster, JoeC is from the US, but keep in mind
that Transport Canada still requires a pre-cover inspection. Members of
teh Air-AABA program (generally RAA members) do the inspections on behalf
of Transport Canada. My pre-cover inspection was done in June and turned
up a couple of things that were potential problems that were easily fixed
before covering.
Ken
On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> The FAA no longer requires pre-cover inspections (since 1983). There is a
> pretty good article on the FAA requirements in this month's Sport Aviation.
> Another good source of info on the legalities of custom built aircraft is
> the EAA's book "Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook", available form EAA
> for $14.95.
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wood joysticks |
The control sticks on our Air Camper are turned from wood.
They are laminated black walnut and maple. Viewed from the end they
are four quadrants of walnut separated by a this strip of maple. The
stick is profiled to the same shape as the Waco Taperwings. They are
inserted and bolted into a piece of round tubing that is then attached
to the torque tube per the plans.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Gary Leopold" 11/07 6:50 PM >>>
Has anyone made any joysticks from wood. If so how did you construct
them?.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <STEVE(at)byu.edu> |
I have them. I also noticed that I wasn't alone at Brodhead with "turf
glide" tires either. they fit on any 6.00 X 6 wheel. (pick your axle size)
Steve Eldredge
IT Services
Brigham Young University
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Of kyle ray
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:28 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Big Wheels
>
>
>
>
>
> Has anyone tried golf cart wheels and does anyone know the axle
> size of golf cart wheels?
>
> russell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Steve wrote:
How many of yall are using Goug Fir in your construction. Are you making
any provisions for the weight differential? If so what are you doing.
There really isnt that much wood used in the construction. I would say in
all about 150lbs mebby. (Big guess)
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
#6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood joysticks |
I'm using a steel tube for my 'stick'. I plan on turning a wooden handle
grip out of cherry for the top two grips.
Looks great and isn't all that hard to do. Lasts longer than the foam or
plastic grips.
I made one for my Kolb ultralight and it worked well.
Greg Yotz
Fit wings and control system. Looking at fabric.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Date: Monday, November 08, 1999 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood joysticks
>
>A lot of '20s biplanes had wooden sticks . . Wacos, Stearmans, etc. I'm
>not sure they were "baseball bats" "axe handles" or anything else, but just
>turned oak sticks. I had a friend get killed when the wooden stick broke
>off in a Waco during aerobatics. That being aside, I would think twice
>about a wooden stick in a Piet simply because the control cables attach to
>the stick itself, above the hinge point. If you are going by the old
>plans, both the elevator AND the ailerons attach up high. Purely from an
>overly cautious standpoint, that does not sound like a good idea. In
>addition, Waco/Stearman sticks are over 2" in diameter, a wooden stick as
>small as a Piet wouldn't be all that strong.
>
>----------
>> From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood joysticks
>> Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 10:51 PM
>>
><childsway@indian-creek.net>
>>
>> Ref. Wood joysticks
>>
>> I once saw a Stearman bipe with wood joysticks made from baseball bats
>> which had been turned down on the big end to fit into a socket on the
>> control system, looked great.
>>
>> Rodger
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Back issues Pietenpol Newsletters |
would the person who e-mailed me directly on the above subect in re: to my
earlier posting to the list please resend your message. My computer decided
to crash in the middle of my (direct) reply to your message and in the
process I lost your name and e-mail address. Sorry group...just need to
reestablish contact with another lister.
Don Hicks (DonanClara(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Three piece wing fittings and header tank plumbing |
Crosby,
If you look closely at the three piece wing print, you will see that the
wing-side fittings have an extra layer of ply under them to space them out
to fit on the outside of the center section fittings. I'm doing that part
now and if I had it to do over again, I would have laid out the bare spars,
and center spars, and located and drilled all fittings first. I'm now
trying to fit and drill the wing spars with ribs in place, all the while
keeping the wing straight with center section. Oh well.
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: AKROZBI(at)aol.com <AKROZBI(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 10:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Three piece wing fittings and header tank plumbing
>
>AirCampers,
> First time out of the chute for me here.
> I have a long fuse Piet on the gear here in beautiful Boulder,
Colorado.
> I am working on the three piece wing fittings at this time. I have
the
>wood center piece constructed and am working on the metal fittings. Does
>anyone know how they fit together? From studying the photos I cannot make
>out how the fittings go together. The straps seem to be the same distance
>apart.
> Also, I am piecing together the tubing between the header tank and the
>gascolator. Can I run tubing back past the passenger so that I can use the
>shut off valve without having to attach an extension? I have purchased a
>mini-valve fromm Aircraft Spruce and hope to use two of them.
> I am using a Corvair.
> Crosby
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Three piece wing fittings and header tank |
plumbing
Crosby..can't help you re: the fuel cutoff but I did run across the problem
you describe on the interference in mating the center section and wing
fittings. I solved it by adding 1/16" ply plates under the c/s fittings. Now
they fit nicely on either side of the wing fittings.
Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: airplane tires |
Talk to your local FBO. They know where to get these tires. They can
probably tell you what they cost too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: airplane tires |
Bob,
Another good question to ask is, "How much do they weigh?" Some of
these large aircraft tires are very heavily built. They need to be many
plys thick to stand up to a muliple thousands pounds of airplane if
someone drops it in.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: 115% Pietenpol |
Rodger and Walt,
Remember about scale effect. 115% in linear dimensions means 132% in
areas and 152% in volume and weight. Hense my intrest in engines around
300 cu in.
Lauren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
| Subject: | Re: 115% Pietenpol |
Rodger,
You're absolutely right about it not really being a Peitenpol. It will
look like a Peitenpol, sort of, "Now wait just a minute, something's a
little out of whack here. I hope that this condition is reversable or
I'm going to be about three feet tall by 4 o'clock this afternoon!"
Yes, all material sizes, wire sizes, fittings and parts will have to be
judged specifically for the new design. It will probably take much
longer to build, just because of the time that it will take to make sure
that all stresses are accounted for. Your comment on the carry through
between the lower strut fittings under the fuselage is a good example.
No one should try something this unless they are pretty secure in their
design abilities.
Lauren
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>
>Does anybody know where we can get a placard for a Pietenpol?
The placard you described was the creation of Brian Amato in TVC. He no
longer does that sort of thing and has gone on to other interests.
But, I'll sell you mine for 4 pieces of spruce about 1"x5" and 14' long.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How much and how long |
| From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
<"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net> writes:
><"craig-rv4"@http:/www.worldnet.att.net>
>
>Lawrence V Williams wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>Where is Brodhead? must be a yearly gathering of Piet builders.
>
>Also, how is the construction manuel?
>The RV manuel did leave a little to be desired.
>
>Craig Hiers
>
>Craig
Brodhead is in southern-central WI and our (Pietenpol aircraft) reunion
is usually the last week-end in July which coincides with that other
little fly-in at OSH.
Construction manual??? What construction manual! There are only the 1933
plans. Real men don't need no stinkin' construction manual.
Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
while studying the 3 pc wing supplement, I noticed that the spars were
changed to 3/4" thick, I assume that the aft spars are not routed at this
thickness and the rib jig is altered for the 3/4" spar. Am I correct on
this?.
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard |
You don't want much do you? What type of "placard" are we talking about?
----------
> From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Need a Pietenpol Placard
> Date: Monday, November 08, 1999 8:19 PM
>
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >Does anybody know where we can get a placard for a Pietenpol?
>
>
> The placard you described was the creation of Brian Amato in TVC. He no
> longer does that sort of thing and has gone on to other interests.
>
> But, I'll sell you mine for 4 pieces of spruce about 1"x5" and 14' long.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How much and how long |
> >> Craig
> >>
> >Where is Brodhead? must be a yearly gathering of Piet builders.
to find brodhead, check out
regards
JoeC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
While studying the 3 pc wing supplement, I noticed that the spars were
changed to 3/4" thick, I assume that the aft spars are not routed at this
thickness and the rib jig is altered for the 3/4" spar. Am I correct on
this?.
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Hi Gary,
I built the 3-piece wing with 3/4" spars. I routed my rear spars down to
1/2" thick , but did not rout the front spars since they carry somewhat more
load than the rears. Just routing the rear spars down 1/8" per side saves
about 3-1/2 lbs. of weight, and as you know, weight is everything in these
birds. Just be careful and use a round-nose bit. Don't use a square end
mill type bit - the square corners act as stress concentrations.
One inch spars are overkill on a plane like this. Pitts Specials and
Champion Citabrias both use 3/4" spars. While we're doing weight
calculations, a 1" spar 29' long weighs 6.7 lbs. more than a 3/4" spar
(assuming both are Pietenpol 4-3/4" tall spars and both are unrouted)
Routing them both to 1/2" at the web negates most of that extra weight, but
October 07, 1999 - November 09, 1999
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bi