Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bk

December 13, 1999 - January 09, 2000



      > wish you 
      > smooth air &  great holidays.
      > 
      > John D
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      Steve W  GN-1 builder
      IHA #6
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 13, 1999
That's fine, Ken, assuming the increase is in the front. It is my understanding that the increase in in the rear section of the fuselage. However, none of this answers my initial question. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Oops, I meant to say that ballast would have to be added to the nose (or removed from the tail, if present). Ken On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 TXTdragger(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/13/1999 12:06:11 PM Central Standard Time, > kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca writes: > > << If not, the plane will have to be ballasted in the tail to achieve the > W&B. >> > ballast removed from tail, if lighter engine used ... right > > John D > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: long fuselage
Date: Dec 13, 1999
Ken Wrote: <>> The added length is at the rear cockpit. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: long fuselage
Oh well... so much for that theory ;-) On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote: > > Ken Wrote: > > < wing>>> > > The added length is at the rear cockpit. > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: long fuselage
Date: Dec 13, 1999
Mine is longer ahead of the wing to compensate for the lighter engine as you surmised,nearly a foot longer. Doug ---------- > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > To: Pietenpol List > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuselage > Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 4:20 PM > > > Oh well... so much for that theory ;-) > > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote: > > > > > Ken Wrote: > > > > < > wing>>> > > > > The added length is at the rear cockpit. > > > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 13, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 6:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: just how many drawings are there? Would SOMEONE >please just list off the dimensions from along the top longeron from >any/all drawings they have!! This may clear up how many different >fuselages there are, and will lead to more follow-up questions I have >regarding obvious errors in the drawings. 1-19-1933 drawings by O.C. Hoopman Dimensions along the top longeron as follows 14 1/2", 28 3/4", 29", 27 1/4", 27", 20", 16 1/2". John Mc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 13, 1999
Thanks Mc., at least someone answered. These are the same dimensions I listed earlier from the 33-34 Hoopman drawings I have which are in true blueprint format (I've had for many years). The older set I have (F7G Manual?????) is 2" shorter in the forward area. ---------- > From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: just how many drawings are there? > Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 10:39 PM > McNarry) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 6:44 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: just how many drawings are there? > > > Would SOMEONE > >please just list off the dimensions from along the top longeron from > >any/all drawings they have!! This may clear up how many different > >fuselages there are, and will lead to more follow-up questions I have > >regarding obvious errors in the drawings. > > 1-19-1933 drawings by O.C. Hoopman > Dimensions along the top longeron as follows > > 14 1/2", 28 3/4", 29", 27 1/4", 27", 20", 16 1/2". > > John Mc > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: long fuselage
Date: Dec 13, 1999
But from what plan is "mine"? ---------- > From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuselage > Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 7:45 PM > > > Mine is longer ahead of the wing to compensate for the lighter engine as > you surmised,nearly a foot longer. > Doug > > ---------- > > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > > To: Pietenpol List > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuselage > > Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 4:20 PM > > > > > > > Oh well... so much for that theory ;-) > > > > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Michael Brusilow wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ken Wrote: > > > > > > < the > > > wing>>> > > > > > > The added length is at the rear cockpit. > > > > > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mboynton(at)excite.com
for" ;
Date: Dec 14, 1999
Subject: Re: trim
test -please disregard > > I plan to put trim on my Piet. > > Back in August after the Brodhead fly-in there was a rather extensive > discussion on this forum about trim. You could consult the archives to > see what was said (if the headers are accurate enough for you to find > the notes). Many of the piets with trim use a short bungee which pulls > on the elevator belcrank one way or the other. By the way, Bernard > Pietenpol was going to add a similar setup to his last piet to keep the > elevator lines from rubbing on the front of the stabilizer when the > plane was parked, but never got around to it (I read that somewhere). > One piet which is usually at Brodhead uses little wings sticking out each > side of the rear fuselage for trim (is that the way Taylorcraft do it?). > > > John in Peoria > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ccarson480(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 14, 1999
Subject: Re: trim
Not all Taylorcrafts have the trim under the stabilizer, mine does, it is a 1940, BC-65. Some of the later ones had the trim on the stabilizer. Carl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 14, 1999
John, My supplemental plans show the later "long" fuselage as follows: 16 1/2", 28 3/4", 31", 27 1/4", 27", 22 1/2",19 3/8" The date I see only says "*corrected 9/22/94 -DP" The measurments you quoted agree with my plans dated 1/19/33. So you actually have 2" extra ahead of the front seat, and 2" more to the rear seat, and 5 3/8" in the last two combined. Odd why you'd add more to the tail for a lighter engine up front? I haven't looked closely at the F&G manual fuselage, just assumed it was the same as the short fuselage on the plans. May have to do with the cabane strut attach points. Anyway, ain't it fun! You can't do all this futzing with a 172 or a Warrior! Gary Meadows ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 14, 1999
Oh I think I meant to direct my last message to Gene, I get sorta mixed up sometimes! Well, Shaken, not stirred! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mboynton(at)excite.com
for" ;
Date: Dec 14, 1999
Subject: Re: wheels
To all: What is the conventional wisdom out there as far as which wheel set-up is most appropriate for rough field use (split axle/small wheel, split axle/big wheel, straight axle/big wheel)? Thanks. Mark Boynton Gilbert, AZ wrote: > > thanks leon, for sending the print of the wheel and > hub. I'm not interested in spoked wheels and didn't > want to use regular heavyweight,expensive aero wheels > and asuza wheels are too light. and so the wheels from > douglass seem exactly what I had in mind, their > catalog is coming to me shortly. > del > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com>
Subject: Re: wheels
Date: Dec 14, 1999
My favorite is cub style with 6 in cleveland wheels and disc brakes.Then you can use 800 x 6 if it is real rough.Bill -----Original Message----- From: mboynton(at)excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP for ; Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wheels vM.4.01.02.00 201-229-116) with SMTP for ; > >To all: > >What is the conventional wisdom out there as far as which wheel set-up is >most appropriate for rough field use (split axle/small wheel, split axle/big >wheel, straight axle/big wheel)? Thanks. > >Mark Boynton >Gilbert, AZ > > >wrote: > > >> >> thanks leon, for sending the print of the wheel and >> hub. I'm not interested in spoked wheels and didn't >> want to use regular heavyweight,expensive aero wheels >> and asuza wheels are too light. and so the wheels from >> douglass seem exactly what I had in mind, their >> catalog is coming to me shortly. >> del >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 1999
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: wheels
Mark, For rough field work, go with the split system. The straight axle will hook and nose you over. Warren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: wheels
Date: Dec 14, 1999
I have 8.00 x 4 balloon tires like the old Cubs. I've landed in rough fields all over Iowa and I would highly recommend the split gear. I used springs instead of bungees. They seem to work good. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Subject: ...springs instead of bungies
Tim Cunningham: Are the springs you spoke of the "die springs" we have all heard about? If so, where so you get them? Do they come in different strengths? I see Wag Aero has a generic spring set up for about $170 . Thanks Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Subject: What happened!
I remember we had access to a (we who are building GN-1s) a email bunch and then it was gone. What happened to it. I can use GN-1 feedback once in a while. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 1999
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: What happened!
I am a GN-1 builder and if you would like e-mail me. I am flying now but it hasn't been long. jas > >I remember we had access to a (we who are building GN-1s) a email bunch >and then it was gone. What happened to it. I can use GN-1 feedback once >in a while. > >Steve > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell)
Subject: What happened!
Date: Dec 15, 1999
> ** Original Subject: Pietenpol-List: What happened! > ** Original Sender: vistin(at)juno.com > ** Original Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:10:36 -0600 > ** Original Message follows... > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > HI Jim may name is david Kowell Iam building a gn-1 also have all tail feathers built and most of right wing together along with all steel parts fabed plan on steel fuselage have all tubing . how far along are you send phone # so we can chat David Kowell Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 15, 1999
For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1.jpg I bought the $80.00 a pair spring set from Aircraft Spruce. All I got was these two big springs and instructions on how to fabricate them. The $170.00 Wag-Aero Springs look similar and I'm sure by the wording you probably have to fabricate them too. I changed their design a bit and they do work great. In fact they are probably strong enough to handle a hard landing with an F-16. I looked at the bungees and decided to go this way. I would highly recommend it. Duane from Salt Lake had a similar but tiny spring set up on his Subaru powered Piet. I've landed in lots of rough fields and they hold up fine. E-mail for more info. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Here's what I put on the Piet Site: For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1.jpg I bought the $80.00 a pair spring set from Aircraft Spruce. All I got was these two big springs and instructions on how to fabricate them. The $170.00 Wag-Aero Springs look similar and I'm sure by the wording you probably have to fabricate them too. I changed their design a bit and they do work great. In fact they are probably strong enough to handle a hard landing with an F-16. I looked at the bungees and decided to go this way. I would highly recommend it. Duane from Salt Lake had a similar but tiny spring set up on his Subaru powered Piet. I've landed in lots of rough fields and they hold up fine. E-mail for more info. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ----- Original Message ----- From: Leon Stefan <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: ...springs instead of bungies Stefan) > > Tim Cunningham: Are the springs you spoke of the "die springs" we have > all heard about? If so, where so you get them? Do they come in different > strengths? I see Wag Aero has a generic spring set up for about $170 . > Thanks Leon S. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com>
Subject: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Tim Does the tube coming from the center of the plane to the spring have a slot cut in it to allow the top spring collar and bolt to slide down? Marc Davis -----Original Message----- From: Tim Cunningham [SMTP:copinfo(at)home.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 1999
From: Rich <houndsfour(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: What happened!
Steve, I have a flying GN-1 if you need help, let me know. We can also just shot the breeze. Rich T " houndsfour(at)earthlink.net " vistin(at)juno.com wrote: > > > I remember we had access to a (we who are building GN-1s) a email bunch > and then it was gone. What happened to it. I can use GN-1 feedback once > in a while. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: "mung" in the brush cleaner jar
Date: Dec 15, 1999
What is that mung in the jar that you wash out the brushes that you've used in polyurethane? If you leave the brush in there it grows to the style of white yogurt. Seems I'm developing some sort of basic lifeform down there. What's the poop on this? walt evans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pasley" <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Marc, Are you located in North Mississippi? Thanks, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Davis, Marc <marc.davis(at)intel.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > Tim > > Does the tube coming from the center of the plane to the spring have a slot > cut in it to allow the top spring collar and bolt to slide down? > > Marc Davis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Cunningham [SMTP:copinfo(at)home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > > For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use > to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Look at: http://members.home.net/copinfo/springd.jpg to see the frabrication drawing I got with the springs from Aircraft Spruce. If it looks bad, it's because it is. That's the quality of the drawing. The hole in the spring is 1 inch, so I bought some 1 inch stock, a couple of big washers a collar and welded it up. Again, the springs are way more than you need. Duane's were tiny and if I had to do it over I would get some smaller ones. My balloon tires take most of the shock anyway. The springs are so much easier to deal with than the bungees and they don't rot. If I left the Piet out in the weather for 1000 years, the engine crank shaft and these springs would still be laying on the ramp after the rest of the plane rotted away. I highly recommend this method. That goes for J-3 owners too. When the bungee goes you're crazy to think a little safety cable is going to save you. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ----- Original Message ----- From: Davis, Marc <marc.davis(at)intel.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > Tim > > Does the tube coming from the center of the plane to the spring have a slot > cut in it to allow the top spring collar and bolt to slide down? > > Marc Davis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Cunningham [SMTP:copinfo(at)home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > > For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use > to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Die Springs come in an assortment of sizes and strengths. 1st we need to know the static load(empty weight), usable load, and spring travel. We don't want the spring to bottom out or coil bind. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 1999
From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Another source for springs: I bought Lamina brand die springs from Precision Punch and Plastics 6100 Blue Circle Drive $36.00 per pair Minnetonka, MN 55343 612-933-0993 800-227-0690 They have a specification catalog of all of the die springs with measurements, and amount of deflection for different loadings. I used the heavy duty H-56 model, although you could also use the XH-56 extra heavy duty model. The cost was $36.00 per pair. There is a drawing of the assembly in the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter #6 page 2. It was designed by Sy Debolt based on a note to him from Mr. Pietenpol in 1974, where Bernard said he had used a spring from a plow (Debolt specified the H-56 Lamina). Bernard also enclosed his in some sort of tube. (More fuel for the fire on what constitutes a true Pietenpol? Bernard always was experimenting). There is an alternate design for a compression spring gear in Bingelis's book "The Sportplane Builder" on page 255. Very similar to the Debolt design. I am just now building my gear, so I can't say how well it will work, but I decided against Bungees for the same reason as Tim spoke of. Al Swanson > >Look at: http://members.home.net/copinfo/springd.jpg to see the frabrication >drawing I got with the springs from Aircraft Spruce. If it looks bad, it's >because it is. That's the quality of the drawing. The hole in the spring >is 1 inch, so I bought some 1 inch stock, a couple of big washers a collar >and welded it up. Again, the springs are way more than you need. Duane's > (Snip) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Al: Let me have a picture or some design of your spring landing gear. I am trying to make up my mind on what kind of gear to use. I built a stewart headwind bout ten yrs ago and it used rubber bushings as the compression strut setup. How is your landing gear designed and where and how is the compression strut located anchored! Steve writes: > > > Another source for springs: > I bought Lamina brand die springs from Precision Punch and Plastics > 6100 Blue Circle Drive > $36.00 per pair Minnetonka, MN 55343 > 612-933-0993 > 800-227-0690 > > They have a specification catalog of all of the die springs with > measurements, and amount of deflection for different loadings. I > used the > heavy duty H-56 model, although you could also use the XH-56 extra > heavy > duty model. The cost was $36.00 per pair. There is a drawing of > the > assembly in the Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter #6 page 2. It was > designed by > Sy Debolt based on a note to him from Mr. Pietenpol in 1974, where > Bernard > said he had used a spring from a plow (Debolt specified the H-56 > Lamina). > Bernard also enclosed his in some sort of tube. (More fuel for the > fire on > what constitutes a true Pietenpol? Bernard always was > experimenting). > There is an alternate design for a compression spring gear in > Bingelis's > book "The Sportplane Builder" on page 255. Very similar to the > Debolt design. > > I am just now building my gear, so I can't say how well it will > work, but I > decided against Bungees for the same reason as Tim spoke of. > > Al Swanson > > > > > > >Look at: http://members.home.net/copinfo/springd.jpg to see the > frabrication > >drawing I got with the springs from Aircraft Spruce. If it looks > bad, it's > >because it is. That's the quality of the drawing. The hole in the > spring > >is 1 inch, so I bought some 1 inch stock, a couple of big washers a > collar > >and welded it up. Again, the springs are way more than you need. > Duane's > > (Snip) > > > > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 15, 1999
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
The Lamina Die Springs are excellant springs, I am a tool maker and they are the only springs I use. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 1999
From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net>
Subject: GN-1 Flyers / Builders
Attention ALL GN-1 flyers and builders: Recently some of you have asked about information regarding the building and flying characteristics of the GN-1. Would it be possible for those who own, fly and/or building the GN-1 to supply to this list the following information? This information could be used to contact one another either DIRECTLY by email or telephone. Name: Address: City / State / Country: Telephone number: Flying or Building GN-1: Brief description of plane....engine / prop / etc... The above would be a great reference of names, numbers and levels of experience to call on. We could directly email pictures of our planes to one another and not tie up this discussion group. Thanks..... Mike King FLYING GN-1 77MK Dallas, Texas (214) 905-9299 Built in 1985. Cont. A-80 with metal McCaully 69 x 39 prop. Flys great. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Sitka spruce aircraft lumber (fwd)
Here's a little gem I was forwarded.... http://sites.netscape.net/rawresources/prices Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 1999
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Sitka spruce aircraft lumber (fwd)
This is where I purchased the spar material for my Piet project. Excellant quality wood, shipped air freight from Seattle to Minneapolis for less than $ 100.00 Word of caution: Be sure to specify your desired FINISHED dimensions. I ordered 1" x 6" and received 13/16" x 5 3/4". Greg Cardinal >>> Ken Beanlands 12/16 8:57 AM >>> Here's a little gem I was forwarded.... http://sites.netscape.net/rawresources/prices ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com>
Subject: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 16, 1999
Hi Larry I'm in Portland OR Marc -----Original Message----- From: Larry Pasley [SMTP:larrypasley(at)prodigy.net] Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear Marc, Are you located in North Mississippi? Thanks, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Davis, Marc <marc.davis(at)intel.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > Tim > > Does the tube coming from the center of the plane to the spring have a slot > cut in it to allow the top spring collar and bolt to slide down? > > Marc Davis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Cunningham [SMTP:copinfo(at)home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > > For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you can use > to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 1999
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Flyers / Builders
Jim Sury Flying GN-1 I call it a Pietenpol Aircamper All wood Douglas Fir weight 635lbs jimsury(at)fbtc.net Wood prop Hegy 42x72 phone 409 793-6932 > > >Attention ALL GN-1 flyers and builders: > >Recently some of you have asked about information >regarding the building and flying characteristics of the >GN-1. > >Would it be possible for those who own, fly and/or >building the GN-1 to supply to this list the following >information? This information could be used to contact >one another either DIRECTLY by email or telephone. > >Name: >Address: >City / State / Country: >Telephone number: >Flying or Building GN-1: >Brief description of plane....engine / prop / etc... > >The above would be a great reference of names, >numbers and levels of experience to call on. We >could directly email pictures of our planes to one >another and not tie up this discussion group. > >Thanks..... > >Mike King >FLYING >GN-1 >77MK >Dallas, Texas >(214) 905-9299 >Built in 1985. Cont. A-80 with metal McCaully >69 x 39 prop. Flys great. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "phil phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 16, 1999
Marc, How far along are you? I am in Kalama, WA. Maybe we could look at each others project and compare notes. I am using the Jenny style gear and Model A engine. Phil Phillips ---------- > From: Davis, Marc <marc.davis(at)intel.com> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pasley" <larrypasley(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 Flyers / Builders
Date: Dec 16, 1999
Larry Pasley P.O. Box 181 Carlisle, AR 72024 870-552-3407 Flying a GN-1 I bought and rebuilt. Good flyer Franklin 65 with a metal prop. It's a fat boy at 780 pounds. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael King <mikek(at)nstar.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Flyers / Builders > > > Attention ALL GN-1 flyers and builders: > > Recently some of you have asked about information > regarding the building and flying characteristics of the > GN-1. > > Would it be possible for those who own, fly and/or > building the GN-1 to supply to this list the following > information? This information could be used to contact > one another either DIRECTLY by email or telephone. > > Name: > Address: > City / State / Country: > Telephone number: > Flying or Building GN-1: > Brief description of plane....engine / prop / etc... > > The above would be a great reference of names, > numbers and levels of experience to call on. We > could directly email pictures of our planes to one > another and not tie up this discussion group. > > Thanks..... > > Mike King > FLYING > GN-1 > 77MK > Dallas, Texas > (214) 905-9299 > Built in 1985. Cont. A-80 with metal McCaully > 69 x 39 prop. Flys great. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 1999
From: mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: remove from list
please remove my name from list-- it has been helpful mark mastrangelo markmastra(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 1999
From: mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: remove from list
please remove my name from list-- it has been helpful mark mastrangelo markmastra(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mboynton(at)excite.com
for" ;
Date: Dec 17, 1999
Subject: Re: wheels
Del, Could you tell me about Douglas and the catalog you are referring to in your message? Thanks. Mark Boynton Gilbert, AZ wrote: > > thanks leon, for sending the print of the wheel and > hub. I'm not interested in spoked wheels and didn't > want to use regular heavyweight,expensive aero wheels > and asuza wheels are too light. and so the wheels from > douglass seem exactly what I had in mind, their > catalog is coming to me shortly. > del > > > > > > > > > Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 1999
From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cockpit heat
i must admit, i suffer the same problem in my '66 vw bug. heat exchangers just DO NOT WORK. i suggest either a small 12 volt heater or those little single use handwarmers that come in a plastic package that you can get just about anywhere for about a buck each. Also, i got a pair of C cell battery powered gloves with a strip of heat down your palm, and they work fairly well. I suggest also that you check out LL Bean's rabbit fur lined Mad Bomber hat. They cost about 30 or 40 bucks and are well worth it. _danbadger --- nle97(at)juno.com wrote: > > Man, those J-3 cabin heaters were a joke. I learned > to fly in Northern > Illinois and used to fly a J-3 in the winter with > the temp below zero - > using the cabin heat required constant > concentration; you had to think > warm thoughts, think of the sun, really, really > concentrate. I don't > think they raised the cabin temp a single degree > > John Langston > > (EUS)" > writes: > Phillips (EUS)" > > > > > >Hi Del, > > > >Piper J-3's had a very inneffective heater that > routed air through a > >door on > >the bottom of the firewall and warmed the left foot > of the person in > >the > >front cockpit. My Cessna 140 has a slightly more > effective heater > >that uses > >a round device on the firewall operated by a > push-pull cable to admit > >air > >from around the heat muffs into the cabin. While > either could be used > >to > >provide a slight bit of warmth to the front > cockpit, I don't think > >they > >would be effective in the rear cockpit of a > Pietenpol, even with the > >front > >cockpit covered over. I suggest a leather flying > jacket and gloves. > >Trade > >the silk scarf for a woolen one. > > > > Jack > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: del magsam > [SMTP:farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:37 PM > >> To: piet aircamper > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit heat > >> > >> > >> > >> Does anybody have any ideas or sketches on how to > >> route the engine heat into the cockpits to > stretch the > >> flying season? I can envision a flapper door at > the > >> bottom of the firewall that closes the normal > heat > >> outlet and reroutes it into the cockpit. > >> thanks > >> del > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerome Bush" <jjbush(at)egl.net>
Subject: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 17, 1999
Would like to hear from someone as to the number of yards of fabric I should order, to completely cover a long fuselage Piet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 1999
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: cockpit heat
Don't forget the battery powered hunting sox (they work well.). robin goodfellow wrote: > > > i must admit, i suffer the same problem in my '66 vw > bug. heat exchangers just DO NOT WORK. i suggest > either a small 12 volt heater would not want one in a cub because fabric has this > annoying habbit of caching fire when exposed to too > much heat> or those little single use handwarmers that > come in a plastic package that you can get just about > anywhere for about > a buck each. Also, i got a pair of C cell battery > powered gloves with a strip of heat down your palm, > and they work fairly well. I suggest also that you > check out LL Bean's rabbit fur lined Mad Bomber hat. > They cost about 30 or 40 bucks and are well worth it. > _danbadger > > --- nle97(at)juno.com wrote: > > > > Man, those J-3 cabin heaters were a joke. I learned > > to fly in Northern > > Illinois and used to fly a J-3 in the winter with > > the temp below zero - > > using the cabin heat required constant > > concentration; you had to think > > warm thoughts, think of the sun, really, really > > concentrate. I don't > > think they raised the cabin temp a single degree > > > > John Langston > > > > (EUS)" > > writes: > > Phillips (EUS)" > > > > > > > > >Hi Del, > > > > > >Piper J-3's had a very inneffective heater that > > routed air through a > > >door on > > >the bottom of the firewall and warmed the left foot > > of the person in > > >the > > >front cockpit. My Cessna 140 has a slightly more > > effective heater > > >that uses > > >a round device on the firewall operated by a > > push-pull cable to admit > > >air > > >from around the heat muffs into the cabin. While > > either could be used > > >to > > >provide a slight bit of warmth to the front > > cockpit, I don't think > > >they > > >would be effective in the rear cockpit of a > > Pietenpol, even with the > > >front > > >cockpit covered over. I suggest a leather flying > > jacket and gloves. > > >Trade > > >the silk scarf for a woolen one. > > > > > > Jack > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: del magsam > > [SMTP:farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com] > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:37 PM > > >> To: piet aircamper > > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit heat > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Does anybody have any ideas or sketches on how to > > >> route the engine heat into the cockpits to > > stretch the > > >> flying season? I can envision a flapper door at > > the > > >> bottom of the firewall that closes the normal > > heat > > >> outlet and reroutes it into the cockpit. > > >> thanks > > >> del > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > > Settlement... > > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 17, 1999
I bought 40 and did not use it all. Doug Hunt CGCGJ ---------- > From: Jerome Bush <jjbush(at)egl.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 5:54 PM > > > Would like to hear from someone as to the number of yards of fabric I > should order, to completely cover a long fuselage Piet. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 17, 1999
The wings would have to be almost 20 yards themselves (or itself, if you're a purist) Another ten for the fuselage (always a lot of waste). A few for the tail surfaces. It can't be far below 40 yards, can it? ---------- > From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:00 PM > > > I bought 40 and did not use it all. > Doug Hunt CGCGJ > > ---------- > > From: Jerome Bush <jjbush(at)egl.net> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 5:54 PM > > > > > > Would like to hear from someone as to the number of yards of fabric I > > should order, to completely cover a long fuselage Piet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Date: Dec 17, 1999
I'm not sure what die springs are, but here in Spokane, there is a custom spring company called Phool Spring. They will set up and make any coil spring you want for around 35.00 each. Or less. I had 2 custom springs made for my ace (1/4"wire by about 1 ft)+ two more custom springs of another size, 4 total.And I spent less than 100.oo dollars. I'll post the address if you need it. Bob >From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: ...springs instead of bungies >Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:05:32 -0600 (CST) > >Stefan) > >Tim Cunningham: Are the springs you spoke of the "die springs" we have >all heard about? If so, where so you get them? Do they come in different >strengths? I see Wag Aero has a generic spring set up for about $170 . >Thanks Leon S. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 17, 1999
40 will be lots Doug ---------- > From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:02 PM > > > The wings would have to be almost 20 yards themselves (or itself, if you're > a purist) Another ten for the fuselage (always a lot of waste). A few for > the tail surfaces. It can't be far below 40 yards, can it? > > > ---------- > > From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:00 PM > > > > > > I bought 40 and did not use it all. > > Doug Hunt CGCGJ > > > > ---------- > > > From: Jerome Bush <jjbush(at)egl.net> > > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > > > Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 5:54 PM > > > > > > > > > Would like to hear from someone as to the number of yards of fabric I > > > should order, to completely cover a long fuselage Piet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: StOrMiN3(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 18, 1999
Subject: help
Can some ont tell me what del magsams email adress is i lost it? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 18, 1999
Subject: Louisiana GLUE.
I am looking for the phone number and address of the fellow in Louisiana that sells the special glue for aircraft . Can anyone help me with this? Thanks Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 1999
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
die springs are used in metal punching dies, and are available in any size imaginable. You might go to a tool and die shop (the're in every town nearly) and they might have have a pile of used ones( although some are mighty used) del --- oil can wrote: > > > I'm not sure what die springs are, but here in > Spokane, there is a custom > spring company called Phool Spring. They will set up > and make any coil > spring you want for around 35.00 each. Or less. I > had 2 custom springs made > for my ace (1/4"wire by about 1 ft)+ two more > custom springs of another > size, 4 total.And I spent less than 100.oo dollars. > > I'll post the address if you need it. > > Bob > > > >From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: ...springs instead of > bungies > >Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:05:32 -0600 (CST) > > > leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon > >Stefan) > > > >Tim Cunningham: Are the springs you spoke of the > "die springs" we have > >all heard about? If so, where so you get them? Do > they come in different > >strengths? I see Wag Aero has a generic spring set > up for about $170 . > >Thanks Leon S. > > > > > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lee Schiek" <concrete(at)qtm.net>
Subject: Re: Louisiana GLUE.
Date: Dec 18, 1999
Gorilla Glue, by AmBel Corp., 819 Cottonport Avenue, Cottonport, LA 71327 Ph. (318) 876-2495, Ask for Sammy ---------- > From: vistin(at)juno.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Louisiana GLUE. > Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 8:17 AM > > > I am looking for the phone number and address of the fellow in Louisiana > that sells the special glue for aircraft . Can anyone help me with this? > > Thanks > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: 125 HP Pietenpol
Date: Dec 19, 1999
I heard that someone put an O-290 on their Pietenpol. If anyone knows who that is, let me know. I need to know about the engine mount, prop and cowling. Maybe I can get up to 8o mph. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 1999
From: David Atnip <davida@mo-net.com>
Subject: Re: 125 HP Pietenpol
Tim , A friend of mine has installed a 0-290 on his Piet. He has not flown it yet. His e-mail address is rte(at)ipa.net. He would be glad to answer any of your questions.. Dave Tim Cunningham wrote: > > I heard that someone put an O-290 on their Pietenpol. If anyone knows who > that is, let me know. I need to know about the engine mount, prop and > cowling. Maybe I can get up to 8o mph. > Copinfo(at)home.com > Tim Cunningham > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Subject: Re: 125 HP Pietenpol
I recently bought a 290G, intending to use it in a piet, but its awful big and heavy looking- I'm frankly intimidated from bolting it to a piet body. Also being old it would need some sort of rebuild, and being a ground power unit, I,m not sure what upgrades would be needed to make it suitable for the air. I also heard of someone using one. Henry Williams ( working on ribs and tail ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Subject: Test
test ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 125 HP Pietenpol
Date: Dec 19, 1999
> >I heard that someone put an O-290 on their Pietenpol. If anyone knows who >that is, let me know. I need to know about the engine mount, prop and >cowling. Maybe I can get up to 8o mph. >Copinfo(at)home.com >Tim Cunningham >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 Hey Tim, I can go 80 with my 0-200. if I run it at 2300 rpm, Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 19, 1999
I think I purchased 50 Yards x 65", and had a few yards left over. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Much better than Die Springs, why not use Urethane Pucks. Use same as Die springs,cost is Aprox..$60. Canadian. Buy them anywhere they make printing rollers. Ask for Duro #80. I have them on mine, and have gone through all the Engineering ( read trial and error) for the correct Duro # for our particular weight. Regards, Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
I am looking for the best place to buy 1.8 oz ceconite. And what to paint it with. I have heard of using house paint. Is this a good practice? Steve writes: > > > I think I purchased 50 Yards x 65", and had a few yards left over. > Dom. > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 19, 1999
NO. Use Poly-fibre ( the old Stits) get it at AS&S or other places. You wont be sorry. I've seen people use house paint, but it just can't take the sun, or most important, the fabric flexing. Did my first project for less than $400.00, and it handles great. walt evans -----Original Message----- From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com> Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric > >I am looking for the best place to buy 1.8 oz ceconite. And what to paint >it with. I have heard of using house paint. Is this a good practice? > >Steve > > writes: >> >> >> I think I purchased 50 Yards x 65", and had a few yards left over. >> Dom. >> >> >> >> >> > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Hi Wayne, Good to be back on the list. Since I have a permanent job now, I can afford it. I had posted my story to this list but am not sure if it got bounced, as I was having trouble with the set up and something about HTML settings. Seems to be sorted out now, but I still don't understand it. Let me know if you did or didn't see the story I'll re-post it. Now for the engine... Yes I finally sorted out all the problems associated with burning pistons. The first time (on the ground) There were a couple of problems: a) timing b) possible 'hot' plug. I rebuilt the engine, but at the same time I purchased and used forged pistons. Rather than just change the one piston I decided for the cost and since I had the engine open, that I would replace all of them. The cylinders were deglazed + 1/2 thou. extra for clearance ( still what I considered stock clearance). Put it all together and within .5 Hour late in the evening after everyone had gone home from the airshow at my home airport (Brampton, Ont.), I experienced a failure, not a complete failure, but close enough. I was hearing some blow-by from one of the cyl., smoke had begun to appear on both sides of the cowl, my RPM dropped from 2750 to 2200. This was the first time I achieved 2750 and I was feeling great that first 1/2 hour. The oil temperature was reading 180 deg.F and that took about 20 min. to register. I think it takes that long for that much mass to heat up. However, after the point of trouble, the temp. started to climb. I was 2 miles from the airport, so I immediately headed back, smoke and all. It looked like I had just been shot down like those old WW1 movies or I had a smoke system. By the time I got down the oil temp. was 290 deg. Luckily there was no one in the pattern. So now I had to take it apart once again. By studying the failed piston, (by the way I had moved that hot plug to this cyl. so the failure seems to have followed it , but not necessarily), and taking to the engine shop owner and his son, we determined that there was not enough piston clearance for forged pistons. We then proceeded to open all cylinders to .004 thous. Put it all back together and try again. Well guess what? Success!!! I flew for three hours total on three separate flights and I installed a Laboratory Digital Thermister under the hottest cyl. to monitor the Head temperatures. Head temp. gives you a true picture of what is happing to the engine. Much better than oil temp. It lets you know sooner if you are heading into trouble. I recommend installing a cyl. Head temp. gauge. I felt really good, I had accomplished what most people said couldn't be done, and that is to run the engine without the original GM fan. Next I wanted to get a complete engine temperature profile. To achieve this I borrowed a $4,000.00 instrument from the test lab at work. On a beautiful Sunday I installed the instrument after programming it to record 5 cyl. every 6 seconds for a one hour flight. Then I would be totally happy. The rest is history. I'll re-post that story if it hasn't been on this list before. Let me know. As for performance, it was great, my tail finally came up. I was cruising 70 Knots at full power in straight/ level attitude. I tested the RPM at 2780 with a Mechanics infrared Prop measuring instrument on the ground and the prop had not unloaded like it would in motion. Regards, Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 1999
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Fabric
In a message dated 12/19/99 8:11:27 PM Central Standard Time, vistin(at)juno.com writes: << I am looking for the best place to buy 1.8 oz ceconite. And what to paint it with. I have heard of using house paint. Is this a good practice? >> I'm using Priemium Rust-Oleum, Oil Based Enamel, 7715 Aluminum paint. Ya gotta put it on just enough to penetrate the fabric, and form a mechanical bond. Paint dosen't stick to Dacron. Then the second coat to eliminate Ultra Vilot (UV) rays. I'll end up with a silver wing...light weight, easy to apply, (probably a roller) and inexpensive. I'll trim the wing with red paint to match the fuselage. Chuck G. Wichita KS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 1999
From: Mark Morgan <BelAirAviation(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: 125 HP Pietenpol
Yea, I have an 0-290-G, 125 hp, in great condition. I am getting plans to start on a Piet. I would like to do the quick build kit from replicraft. I have been involved with BPA and even sponsored a Piet fly-in at our EAA chapt 284 annual labor day taildragger event. Has anyone bought from them (Replicraft) and I know some may think I'm taking a short cut. They're right. I want to fly a 'Piet - Aircamper' this coming year. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: fabric paint
Date: Dec 19, 1999
I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live outside... Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver coat, then a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. A guy used it to paint his d-17. The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from utah.......I think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should be prooving itself by now... If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Phool Spring
Date: Dec 19, 1999
The address for Phol Spring is: Phol Spring 6415 E Nevada Ave. Spokane, WA 99212 (509) 535-3648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 1999
From: Leo Ponton <leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: just how many drawings are there?
>Would SOMEONE >please just list off the dimensions from along the top longeron from >any/all drawings they have!! 1933: 14.5, 28.75, 29, 27.25, 27, 20, 16.5 1966: 16.5, 28.75, 31, 27.25, 27, 22.5, 19.375 I was going to include dimensions for steel tube, but they do not directly compare. As you can see, the fuselage is lengthened immediately behind the firewall, the rear cockpit seat back is pushed back (although the seat front remains the same - the seat is bigger), and the tail section is extended. Interestingly, the turtledeck to tailpost dimension in 1933 was 18 inches and in 1966 was 18.75 inches. I haven't cross referenced to see what effect this will have. It seems to me that while the engine was moved forward to maintain CofG, some adjustment would have been necessary in the position of the tail to compensate for the increased moment arm of the dynamic engine forces - more torque on a longer lever (more powerful, lighter engine). Or looked at another way, a heavier or lighter engine doesn't just mean more or less fishing weights in the tail - it means a reappraisal of the design to maintain the flying characteristics or different flying characteristics to retain the same design. Leo Nottinghamshire England leo(at)deadly.demon.co.uk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: fabric paint
Date: Dec 20, 1999
I used Sherwin William Delux on my plane. It isn't an award winner like Mike Cuy's, but nothing to be ashamed of either. I built my piet with costs foremost in mind, and that is why I went with a latex covering. I painted the whole plane for about $120. and left is out in the rain snow and ice for the first year. I now have an open hangar. I havn't had any cracking in over two years. On the wear points I can just touch up with a brush and it looks fine. If I were building on a budget again, I would repeat using it. Latex is definatly weather worthy, and is designed to flex, Just try to sand the stuff, and you will soon figure that out. May be an option for some.... Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of oil can Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live outside... Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver coat, then a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. A guy used it to paint his d-17. The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from utah.......I think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should be prooving itself by now... If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 20, 1999
Subject: Re: fabric paint
Steve what fabric weight did you use. How much did you pay for the fabric and who did you buy it from. Steve > > I used Sherwin William Delux on my plane. It isn't an award winner > like > Mike Cuy's, but nothing to be ashamed of either. I built my piet > with costs > foremost in mind, and that is why I went with a latex covering. I > painted > the whole plane for about $120. and left is out in the rain snow and > ice for > the first year. I now have an open hangar. I havn't had any > cracking in > over two years. On the wear points I can just touch up with a brush > and it > looks fine. If I were building on a budget again, I would repeat > using it. > Latex is definatly weather worthy, and is designed to flex, Just try > to sand > the stuff, and you will soon figure that out. > > May be an option for some.... > > Steve E. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of oil > can > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 12:06 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint > > > > > I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live > > outside... > > Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver > coat, then > > a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. > I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. > A guy used it to paint his d-17. > > The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from > utah.......I > think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should > be > prooving itself by now... > > If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Date: Dec 20, 1999
How does the installation go? Any sketches you would care to pass along? Greg Yotz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: fabric paint
Date: Dec 20, 1999
I bought the generic 1.7 or 1.8 oz fabric from AS&S 36 yards and if I remember right it was about $3.60 a yard. I would get 38 yards just in case. Stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of vistin(at)juno.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint Steve what fabric weight did you use. How much did you pay for the fabric and who did you buy it from. Steve > > I used Sherwin William Delux on my plane. It isn't an award winner > like > Mike Cuy's, but nothing to be ashamed of either. I built my piet > with costs > foremost in mind, and that is why I went with a latex covering. I > painted > the whole plane for about $120. and left is out in the rain snow and > ice for > the first year. I now have an open hangar. I havn't had any > cracking in > over two years. On the wear points I can just touch up with a brush > and it > looks fine. If I were building on a budget again, I would repeat > using it. > Latex is definatly weather worthy, and is designed to flex, Just try > to sand > the stuff, and you will soon figure that out. > > May be an option for some.... > > Steve E. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of oil > can > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 12:06 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint > > > > > I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live > > outside... > > Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver > coat, then > > a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. > I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. > A guy used it to paint his d-17. > > The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from > utah.......I > think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should > be > prooving itself by now... > > If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: fabric paint
Date: Dec 20, 1999
BTW I think springs are ugly. GO Bungiees! Stevee Just an opinion mindya. (as Jim Lewis would say) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of vistin(at)juno.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint Steve what fabric weight did you use. How much did you pay for the fabric and who did you buy it from. Steve > > I used Sherwin William Delux on my plane. It isn't an award winner > like > Mike Cuy's, but nothing to be ashamed of either. I built my piet > with costs > foremost in mind, and that is why I went with a latex covering. I > painted > the whole plane for about $120. and left is out in the rain snow and > ice for > the first year. I now have an open hangar. I havn't had any > cracking in > over two years. On the wear points I can just touch up with a brush > and it > looks fine. If I were building on a budget again, I would repeat > using it. > Latex is definatly weather worthy, and is designed to flex, Just try > to sand > the stuff, and you will soon figure that out. > > May be an option for some.... > > Steve E. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of oil > can > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 12:06 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint > > > > > I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live > > outside... > > Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver > coat, then > > a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. > I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. > A guy used it to paint his d-17. > > The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from > utah.......I > think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should > be > prooving itself by now... > > If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: fabric paint
Date: Dec 20, 1999
Steve, what did you use to block UV? Or does the latex paint do this? Also, did you spray, brush or roll the paint on? Also what did you do to attach the cloth to your airframe? Greg Yotz Ready to cover... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 8:43 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint > >I used Sherwin William Delux on my plane. It isn't an award winner like >Mike Cuy's, but nothing to be ashamed of either. I built my piet with costs >foremost in mind, and that is why I went with a latex covering. I painted >the whole plane for about $120. and left is out in the rain snow and ice for >the first year. I now have an open hangar. I havn't had any cracking in >over two years. On the wear points I can just touch up with a brush and it >looks fine. If I were building on a budget again, I would repeat using it. >Latex is definatly weather worthy, and is designed to flex, Just try to sand >the stuff, and you will soon figure that out. > >May be an option for some.... > >Steve E. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of oil can >Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 12:06 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric paint > > >I have heard of using house paint, but my project will probably live >outside... > >Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river thru the silver coat, then > >a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. >I know little about this, and have just read about it recently. >A guy used it to paint his d-17. > >The other is auto paint with a black under coat. Steve e from utah.......I >think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and the finish should be >prooving itself by now... > >If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing about them. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Latex method described
Date: Dec 20, 1999
Included are several emails that I have written in the past to others on this subject. If you have further questions please ask, Steve Eldredge Steve(at)byu.edu IT Services Brigham Young University The latex coatings are not really that hard. You > cover the > > aircraft using the stits (poly fiber) process up to the > point of putting > > on > > the first poly brush coat. Instead of filling the weave > with the poly > > brush > > you brush on a coat of flat laytex outdoor black 90 degrees to the > > airflow. > > then another coat to fill the weave parallel to the > airflow. The black is > > the UV protection. After the black is done put on your dark color > > coats,for > > lighter surfaces paint a coat of flat white to hid the > black. The secret > > is > > keeping the coatings thin to avoid cracking. Mine is two > years old and > > still looks fine. It isn't an award winning finish however. > > I actually brushed the first two coats, then sprayed the white primer for the wings, to smooth out the brush marks and just left the fuse as is, then sprayed the color. Rolling on the final coats is also an option. Just depends on what kind of finish you want. Duane used the UV latex coats and then sprayed an automotive finish to get the wet look. ... I have been satisfied with the latex method that I have used, and would use it again on a vintage airplane such as a piet. I did learn a few things doing it however, that I will pass along. I painted my project when it was too hot (80+ degrees) and had trouble with the paint drying too fast. The High Gloss latex need time to dry correctly. Also I used an airless sprayer like you paint a house with. I would try a regular spray set up next time. I also would be more patient in applying second coats. I admit that once it started to take color, I was anxious to see the luster I hoped for and applied successive coats to quickly which caused some catastrophic running that I had to fix. More below. I was just now looking at your message dated 03/03/1988 regar- ding the latex fabric finishing method you used on your Pietenpol, and wondered whether you were still satisfied with it. From pictures of your a/c at Oshkosh this year, I must say it looks great! There are a couple of things in your message that I would like clari- fied: 1. It seems you used the Poly-Fiber steps to attach and shrink the fabric. After applying the surface tapes, was there any reason why you did not use Poly-brush to fill the weave of the fabric? Was it a matter of cost? Or was there a technical reason? yep. both really. If you fill the weave with poly-brush the latex won't have enought tooth to stick to the slick coatings. I had to brush some places a couple of times to get good adhesion where there was a significant buildup of poly-brush already. 2. You stated that you used Sherwin Williams best grade exterior flat black latex to fill the bare fabric and that it is "100% UV formu- lated". Does this mean that the latex itself is not affected by UV rays, or does it mean that the black latex coats prevent UV from deteriorating the fabric? (Normally, aluminum pigmented coatings are used to reflect the sun's rays in order to shield the fabric under- neath.) The color exterior latex paints themselves are UV protected, and the flat black performs the same function to as the aluminum pigmented coatings in other systems. you know that your UV protected if after the two coats of black you cannot see light through the fabric. Using flat black just assures that no light will reach the fabric through other color coats. My Pietenpol was recovered in 1985 after 15 years of service with a Grade A cotton cover, doped finish. I recovered it with polyester fabric, doped finish. It is still good, but it is time to look at that wooden struc- ture again. Aircraft dope prices are out of sight and your method seems to be a good one. I only have 2 flying years on mine, but so far so good. I touch up with a brush during the annual condition inspection and within a couple of days the colors blend well. If I had the money I'm sure I would have gone with a more conventional method, but this is what makes mine a special piet to me. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: paint & fabric
Date: Dec 20, 1999
> I sealed the stitts dacron fabric with Sherman Williams varnish in two > thin cross coats ( with a brush ), the second coat being mixed with > silver powder.No silver on the under surface. > > For color on the wing I sprayed on atari auto paint. On the fuselage for > color & used stitts stuff because I had some. > > The airplane is 12 years old. Paint still looks good. > > Primed & painted all the metal parts with spray cans bought in K Mart. > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol Fabric
Date: Dec 20, 1999
Steve, My first project was a Fisher 404, which I'm flying now. I too took my thinking toward house paint or car paint, but if you look at the facts, there just is no comparison. First the price ...the first two steps are poly brush ( about $50.00 a gal), and Poly spray ( silver) about $50.00 a gal) and lastly the color coat ,which is Poly Tone. ( about $50.00 to $70.00 for all colors except the reds) and about $100.00 for the red based colors. havn't covered the Piet yet , so I can just talk about the Fisher. Green body with "white" wings... for the whole plane was.. 2 gal poly brush @ $50.40$100.80 (new prices) 1 gal poly spray @ $49.60$49.60 " 1 gal poly tone "white" for wings and tail surfaces @ $38.00 = $38.00 2 qts. poly tone green for body @ $19.20 $19.20 2 gal reducer $ 28.30$56.60 total $264.20 this doesn't include MEK, tapes , rib stitching,brushes etc. I built and fly my Fisher as a U/L so I used 1.8oz fabric and a minimum of coats ( 3 poly brush,3 poly spray, and 3 poly tone) these coats can be done at about 20 min. intervals, and It's a dream to work with. Just remember, because Poly fiber isn't actually a paint, each coat that you put on, actually "melts" and becomes part of the last layer. And...it's flexible and wont crack due to fabric flexing And...no mater how old the poly fiber is you can clean it and apply more right over it. And...if you use house paint ( and how often do you have to repaint a house?) You'll have to recover the plane. You'll never be sorry if you use Poly Fiber walt evans -----Original Message----- From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com> Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:11 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fabric >Mornin Walt! Thanks for your input on this. Now could you send me a list >of the products you used and the weight of the fabric. I am just trying >to do the same as everyone else and save weight. >Again thanks for this info. >Steve > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: ...springs instead of bungies
Date: Dec 20, 1999
For those that haven't been to the site, I have two photos of my spring gear. One is the gear on the Piet and the other is the drawing from Aircraft Spruce on how to fabricate the spring attachments. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1.jpg and http://members.home.net/copinfo/springd.jpg Don't pay any attention to Steve when he say's springs look ugly. This from a guy who used house paint on His Piet. Actually his Piet looks good, but I would go with a little more expense and use the Stitts Poly-Tone or Aero-Thane. It's the thing that shows. For those who haven't painted I recommend Poly-Tone. It's easy to apply and touch up. Add a little retarder and rejuvenator and get a finish that isn't dull. Thanks to all the people on the list about the O-290 install. I can't believe the expertice out there. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ...springs instead of bungies > > How does the installation go? Any sketches you would care to pass along? > > Greg Yotz > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: 125 HP Pietenpol
Date: Dec 20, 1999
Mark, I purchased some items from Replicraft Aviation and the workmanship is excellent. I would not hesitate to recommend them. The last thing I bought was ribs for an Aeronca Chief. I get rushed on projects too and sometimes it easier to write a check than to build it yourself. You'll get quality work. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Morgan <BelAirAviation(at)compuserve.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 125 HP Pietenpol > > Yea, I have an 0-290-G, 125 hp, in great condition. I am getting plans to > start on a Piet. I would like to do the quick build kit from replicraft. I > have been involved with BPA and even sponsored a Piet fly-in at our EAA > chapt 284 annual labor day taildragger event. Has anyone bought from them > (Replicraft) and I know some may think I'm taking a short cut. They're > right. I want to fly a 'Piet - Aircamper' this coming year. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: 125 HP Pietenpol
Date: Dec 20, 1999
I'll second the workmanship vote for Replicraft. Steve really does a nice job. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: paint & fabric
Date: Dec 20, 1999
How much time has your airplane spent outside? If parking outside matters...I assume that it does. >From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Pietenpol List" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: paint & fabric >Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:32:08 -0500 > > > > > > I sealed the stitts dacron fabric with Sherman Williams varnish in two > > thin cross coats ( with a brush ), the second coat being mixed with > > silver powder.No silver on the under surface. > > > > For color on the wing I sprayed on atari auto paint. On the fuselage for > > color & used stitts stuff because I had some. > > > > The airplane is 12 years old. Paint still looks good. > > > > Primed & painted all the metal parts with spray cans bought in K Mart. > > > >Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: paint & fabric
Date: Dec 20, 1999
<<>> Always in a hangar Bob. The only time it has been outside is at fly-ins & Brodhead X2. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Rudder/ vertical stabilizer height difference
Date: Dec 21, 1999
Gang, I got all my rudder wood cut last night, and in the jig, then for grins, I put my vertical stabilizer up to it, just to see how it looked. I had located my rudder ribs and used them to align my V-Stab. Well, I was surprised to find a good bit of difference (I guess about 1/2" to 5/8") in them at the top! I then went to the plans, and did the math, the rudder is 43 1/2", and the measurement for the v-stab is 31". I added up the height measurements for the tail post - 10 7/8", the horizontal stab - 1" and the 31" for the vstab and came up with 42 7/8". That would seem to explain why my vstab is shorter, but am I missing something? Is the vstab shorter to account for layers of fabric that will be beneath it? Or is this one of those areas where you just sort of wing it and make it work? I can do that, but I was just wondering if I had somehow overlooked something. Let the flogging begin..... Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 21, 1999
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Tim, An eighth inch safety cable will support an airplane if the bungee cords break. I used to have a pilot in the company Pawnee that was always landing hard and breaking the bungees and the cable I made up and installed saved that prop many times. Incidently, the boss finally got tired of it and fired the pilot. John Langston Pipe Creek, TX nle97(at)juno.com writes: > > >Look at: http://members.home.net/copinfo/springd.jpg to see the >frabrication >drawing I got with the springs from Aircraft Spruce. If it looks bad, >it's >because it is. That's the quality of the drawing. The hole in the >spring >is 1 inch, so I bought some 1 inch stock, a couple of big washers a >collar >and welded it up. Again, the springs are way more than you need. >Duane's >were tiny and if I had to do it over I would get some smaller ones. >My >balloon tires take most of the shock anyway. The springs are so much >easier >to deal with than the bungees and they don't rot. If I left the Piet >out in >the weather for 1000 years, the engine crank shaft and these springs >would >still be laying on the ramp after the rest of the plane rotted away. >I >highly recommend this method. That goes for J-3 owners too. When >the >bungee goes you're crazy to think a little safety cable is going to >save >you. >Copinfo(at)home.com >Tim Cunningham >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 >----- Original Message ----- >From: Davis, Marc <marc.davis(at)intel.com> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 5:28 PM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > > >> >> Tim >> >> Does the tube coming from the center of the plane to the spring have >a >slot >> cut in it to allow the top spring collar and bolt to slide down? >> >> Marc Davis >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Cunningham [SMTP:copinfo(at)home.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:49 PM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear >> > >> >> For those that have asked about my spring gear, here is a site you >can use >> to see how it looks. http://members.home.net/copinfo/spring1. >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
The PA-18 that I was flying has a significantly larger cable than 1/8". In fact, I beleive that they have a 1/4". I know of 2 seperate PA-18's that have had incident free bungee failures due to these cables and YES, they will save your plane. Ken On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 nle97(at)juno.com wrote: > > Tim, > An eighth inch safety cable will support an airplane if the bungee cords > break. I used to have a pilot in the company Pawnee that was always > landing hard and breaking the bungees and the cable I made up and > installed saved that prop many times. Incidently, the boss finally got > tired of it and fired the pilot. > John Langston > Pipe Creek, TX > nle97(at)juno.com > > >highly recommend this method. That goes for J-3 owners too. When > >the > >bungee goes you're crazy to think a little safety cable is going to > >save > >you. > >Copinfo(at)home.com > >Tim Cunningham > >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 21, 1999
I know all about the so called safety cable. It's suppose to work, but I've seen a lot of damaged airplanes when the bungee broke and so did the cable. I don't think the bungees would break if they were replaced every year. If I did bungees I'd change them every six months just to be safe. I also make sure I stick with a wood prop so if the gear ever goes the prop strike won't destroy the crank and case. I say that and then I have a metal prop on my Grumman and it has the worst looking gear I've ever seem. If I had it to do over again I would get smaller springs locally. At the time ACS ones were the only ones I could find. Heck they want $90.00 for a pair now. That's not a very good price for us Impoverished Homebuilders. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > Tim, > An eighth inch safety cable will support an airplane if the bungee cords > break. > John Langston > Pipe Creek, TX > nle97(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Spring Gear
Date: Dec 21, 1999
I have a landing gear vee from a 46-47 T-Craft that also has 1/4" bungee safety cable. Mike C. P.P., KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear > > The PA-18 that I was flying has a significantly larger cable than 1/8". In > fact, I beleive that they have a 1/4". I know of 2 seperate PA-18's that > have had incident free bungee failures due to these cables and YES, they > will save your plane. > > Ken > > On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 nle97(at)juno.com wrote: > > > > > Tim, > > An eighth inch safety cable will support an airplane if the bungee cords > > break. I used to have a pilot in the company Pawnee that was always > > landing hard and breaking the bungees and the cable I made up and > > installed saved that prop many times. Incidently, the boss finally got > > tired of it and fired the pilot. > > John Langston > > Pipe Creek, TX > > nle97(at)juno.com > > > > >highly recommend this method. That goes for J-3 owners too. When > > >the > > >bungee goes you're crazy to think a little safety cable is going to > > >save > > >you. > > >Copinfo(at)home.com > > >Tim Cunningham > > >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Neat engine for Piet...
I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston Engines" / "Franklin": TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 December 1999 For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
Date: Dec 22, 1999
Ken, if you want an engine like that I know where you can get a 65 horse Lycoming that is in Canada for the same price. Let me know and I'll get the info for you. His name is Joe Antal and he builds Luscombs. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Neat engine for Piet... > > I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston Engines" / > "Franklin": > > TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. > Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be > STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no > starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take > some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S > FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. > Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 > December 1999 > > For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was posting it for other members of the list. I have a 150 hp Frank for my Christavia. Unfortunately, a 65-80 hp engine is a little small for my plane. Although Christavias have flown on as little as 65 hp, 100-125 hp is ideal. Ken On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Tim Cunningham wrote: > > Ken, if you want an engine like that I know where you can get a 65 horse > Lycoming that is in Canada for the same price. Let me know and I'll get the > info for you. His name is Joe Antal and he builds Luscombs. > > Copinfo(at)home.com > Tim Cunningham > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > To: Pietenpol Discussion > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:12 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Neat engine for Piet... > > > > > > I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston Engines" / > > "Franklin": > > > > TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. > > Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be > > STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no > > starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take > > some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S > > FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. > > Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 > > December 1999 > > > > For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > > > > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
Date: Dec 22, 1999
I am also looking for something in the 65 - 100 range. I'm located in NC. >From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Neat engine for Piet... >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:02:32 -0600 > > >Ken, if you want an engine like that I know where you can get a 65 horse >Lycoming that is in Canada for the same price. Let me know and I'll get >the >info for you. His name is Joe Antal and he builds Luscombs. > >Copinfo(at)home.com >Tim Cunningham >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:12 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Neat engine for Piet... > > > > > > > I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston Engines" / > > "Franklin": > > > > TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. > > Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be > > STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no > > starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take > > some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S > > FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. > > Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 > > December 1999 > > > > For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mboynton(at)excite.com
for" ;
Date: Dec 23, 1999
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
Ken and any others... Being that I live in Arizona, not far from Prescott, I went ahead and called Marty, the owner of the Franklin engine. He has no idea how many hours are on the engine, but he has pulled two of the cylinders and says they and the pistons show very little wear, and that overall, the engine looks to be in very good shape. Its a 4AC-176F3. If it has any life left in it, I'd like to make a run up to Prescott tomorrow morning and buy it. My question is, not being a mechanic and not having the mic's, calipers and tools necessary, what do I look for to determine if this is an engine I should buy. I know there's not a lot I can do/look for, but there must be something I can do. What would you recommend. Mark Boynton Gilbert, AZ wrote: > > I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston Engines" / > "Franklin": > > TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. > Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be > STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no > starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take > some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S > FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. > Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 > December 1999 > > For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > > > > Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 23, 1999
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
Mark, I've overhauled over a hundred aircraft engines over the years but have very little experience on Franklin engines. I did have a couple of cylinders repaired about three years ago on a 165 HP Franklin in a Stinson Station Wagon -- it cost an arm and a leg. Generally speaking, aircraft engines will wear their pistons out. Most of the wear will be at the top compression ring groove. Another bad wear area is the up and down measurement of the piston pin hole. On the standard Lycoming and Continental engines that have gone through all their standard TBO hours, I don't even bother to measure the pistons; I just throw them in a scrap bin. Any time you see a log book with an overhaul that did not replace the pistons you can bet it has been assembled with worn out parts. The same goes for a camshaft. Always replace the camshaft or have it reground. I got burned on a ground camshaft years ago and I am still leary of them although I have used them since and have had no problems. It is much cheaper to have one ground than to buy a new one. An exception to this is the smaller engines which don't seem to be as hard on the pistons, I suspose due to lower RPMs. I really haven't overhauled many of the smaller engines and the ones I did were really a mess requiring nearly everything to be replaced. Another exception is the Pratt & Whitney radials. I've top overhauled a couple R-985s and a R-1340 and found all the pistons to be in good condition. Again, a radial doesn't turn the RPMs the newer oppossed engines do and they don't seem to work as hard so that is probably why the pistons last. Franklin engines went bankrupt in '76 and their assets were sold off at auction being bought by PZL in Poland. Communist Poland was trying very hard to get into the aviation market and they also produced an engine to replace the R-1340 which was commonly used in crop dusters. The engines were evidently very reliable from what I've heard (I've never seen one), but the overhaul prices were horrendous, especially for the radial. I haven't heard much about the Franklins but someone on this site said they had a little Franklin overhauled for about $7000.00 which is very high. An A-65 in reasonably good condition should be able to be overhauled for about $5000.00. The first homebuilt I ever went up in was a Volmer Sportsman amphibian powered by a 100 HP Franklin. The engine was very smooth and seemed powerful enough. As with other Franklins I've worked on, this one ran at higher RPMs that what we're used to in Continantals and Lycomings, so I would suspect the pistons. On any overhaul with a run out engine I will replace the pistons, piston pins, rocker arm shafts, camshaft, lifters, exhaust valves, valve keepers, rod bushings, rocker arm bushings, and have the cylinders overhauled, either ground out oversized or usually chromed. On Continantal engines the cylinders will always be worn out. A first run Lycoming might be OK. I will never even look at a Lycoming oil pump; I just throw it away. I wish I had more to say on the Franklins, but I just haven't worked on them all that much. I believe a Franklin was a very reliable engine and would give you good service, but beware of overhaul costs. As far as the power they developed, I don't know. I've worked on many Cubs and such that had had Franklins installed during manufacture, but these engines had since been replaced with the Continentals. The Continentals definately produced more power through torque than did the 65 HP Lycomings. I hope this informationhas been of some help to you. Feel free to ask any more questions and I'll try to help. John Langston Pipe Creek, TX nle97(at)juno.com vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP for" ; writes: >vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP for >; > >Ken and any others... > >Being that I live in Arizona, not far from Prescott, I went ahead and >called >Marty, the owner of the Franklin engine. He has no idea how many >hours are >on the engine, but he has pulled two of the cylinders and says they >and the >pistons show very little wear, and that overall, the engine looks to >be in >very good shape. Its a 4AC-176F3. > >If it has any life left in it, I'd like to make a run up to Prescott >tomorrow morning and buy it. My question is, not being a mechanic and >not >having the mic's, calipers and tools necessary, what do I look for to >determine if this is an engine I should buy. I know there's not a lot >I can >do/look for, but there must be something I can do. What would you >recommend. > >Mark Boynton >Gilbert, AZ > > >pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >wrote: > > >> >> I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston >Engines" / >> "Franklin": >> >> TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. >> Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be >> STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no >> starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take >> some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S >> FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. >> Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 >> December 1999 >> >> For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > >> >> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) >> Calgary, Alberta, Canada >> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN >> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> >> >> >> >> >> > > >Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com > The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 1999
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Neat engine for Piet...
On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 nle97(at)juno.com wrote: > > Mark, > I've overhauled over a hundred aircraft engines over the years > but have very little experience on Franklin engines. I did have a > couple of cylinders repaired about three years ago on a 165 HP Franklin > in a Stinson Station Wagon -- it cost an arm and a leg. New Franklin 165 jugs are quite inexpensive from PZL, actually cheaper than Cont's and Lyc (0-200/0-235). > Generally speaking, aircraft engines will wear their pistons out. Most > of the wear will be at the top compression ring groove. Another bad wear > area is the up and down measurement of the piston pin hole. On the > standard Lycoming and Continental engines that have gone through all > their standard TBO hours, I don't even bother to measure the pistons; I > just throw them in a scrap bin. Any time you see a log book with an > overhaul that did not replace the pistons you can bet it has been > assembled with worn out parts. The same goes for a camshaft. Always > replace the camshaft or have it reground. I got burned on a ground > camshaft years ago and I am still leary of them although I have used them > since and have had no problems. It is much cheaper to have one ground > than to buy a new one. Franklins have a removable sleeve in many of thier engines that can be changed at O/H time along with the pistons and rings to make for a standard dimensioned jug. > Franklin engines went bankrupt in '76 and their assets were sold > off at auction being bought by PZL in Poland. Communist Poland was > trying very hard to get into the aviation market and they also produced > an engine to replace the R-1340 which was commonly used in crop dusters. > The engines were evidently very reliable from what I've heard (I've > never seen one), but the overhaul prices were horrendous, especially for > the radial. I haven't heard much about the Franklins but someone on > this site said they had a little Franklin overhauled for about $7000.00 > which is very high. An A-65 in reasonably good condition should be able > to be overhauled for about $5000.00. That was me. Total price for an O/H'd 4A-235-B4, 150 hp was $8400 USD. However, I did not start with a core, the core was part of the $8400. In addition, it included a NEW carb, ignition leads, starter, remote filter system, cam, jugs, pistons, fuel pump, altenator (automotive with electronic voltage regulator), two rebuilt Bendix mags AND a servicable McCaulley metal prop. Not cheap, but certainly comparable to a 4 cyl Lyc or Cont with full electrical and accessories. > The first homebuilt I ever went up in was a Volmer Sportsman > amphibian powered by a 100 HP Franklin. The engine was very smooth and > seemed powerful enough. As with other Franklins I've worked on, this > one ran at higher RPMs that what we're used to in Continantals and > Lycomings, so I would suspect the pistons. Franklins use a viscuous damped flywheel at the rear making them very smooth. My Frank also uses forged pistons as opposed to cast that are found in Lyc's and Conts. However, you are correct that they run about 7-15% faster than Cont's and Lyc's depending on the model. My engine also has a 10.5:1 compression ratio further hammering those pistons. > I wish I had more to say on the Franklins, but I just haven't > worked on them all that much. I believe a Franklin was a very reliable > engine and would give you good service, but beware of overhaul costs. > As far as the power they developed, I don't know. I've worked on many > Cubs and such that had had Franklins installed during manufacture, but > these engines had since been replaced with the Continentals. The > Continentals definately produced more power through torque than did the > 65 HP Lycomings. John, I certainly respect your opinion as you have a lot more experience with engines than I and agree with most of what you've said. I was able to get some additional information in the research I did before buying my engine. You are correct in that PZL bought the rights and equipment from Franklin, but prior to this purchase and Franklin's demise, the engine was being built, under license, by PZL. They have produced thousands of the 4 and 6 cylinder engines over the last 20 years or so. O/H concerns were certainly a factor when I was choosing an engine. However, the C-85 I had was going to cost more to O/H than buying the overhauled Franklin. I had a quote of $10,000 CAD to overhaul the C-85-12 that I had ($7000 USD) and I already owned the core. Instead, the Frank engine only cost $7600 USD and I got to sell the old C-85 core for about $1500 USD making the net cost of the O/H's Frank plus accessories only $6100 USD and I ended up with an extra 65 hp to boot. Compared to a comperable 0-200 that was recently for sale here, it's about $2000 USD less! A similar 0-235 was $3500 more. For me, it just made sence to go to the Franklin. BTW, I still have a flanged C-85 crank, lifters, and con rods available if anyone want them. Mark, for a better idea on the Franklin O/H costs, call the experts at Franklin Parts and Service @ (812)752-6919. He only rebuilds Franklins including my engine and can probably work something out for this one. It's a small Mom and Pop shop (actually, I think it's just a Pop shop ;-) so you may have to leave a message for him. He usually advertises in the classified section of Kitplanes (or was it SA). Bobby is a great guy to deal with and really knows his stuff. If my engine runs as good as it looks, I should be going running for decades. Hope this helps, Ken > > > >Ken and any others... > > > >Being that I live in Arizona, not far from Prescott, I went ahead and > >called > >Marty, the owner of the Franklin engine. He has no idea how many > >hours are > >on the engine, but he has pulled two of the cylinders and says they > >and the > >pistons show very little wear, and that overall, the engine looks to > >be in > >very good shape. Its a 4AC-176F3. > > > >If it has any life left in it, I'd like to make a run up to Prescott > >tomorrow morning and buy it. My question is, not being a mechanic and > >not > >having the mic's, calipers and tools necessary, what do I look for to > >determine if this is an engine I should buy. I know there's not a lot > >I can > >do/look for, but there must be something I can do. What would you > >recommend. > > > >Mark Boynton > >Gilbert, AZ > > > > > >pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >wrote: > > > > > >> > >> I found on <http://www.barnstormers2000.com/> under "Piston > >Engines" / > >> "Franklin": > >> > >> TRADE!! .. 80 hp. Franklin engine, NO log books .. > >> Very clean inside, shows no excessive wear, looks to be > >> STD Rebuildable antique .. Engine Core alone, no > >> starter, mags, or carb. $400 + shipping .. Might take > >> some trades .. Contact Marty Nelson, Owner - NELSON'S > >> FLYING SERVICE located Prescott Valley AZ USA. > >> Telephone: 520-775-0523. Fax: 520-775-0468. -- Posted 15 > >> December 1999 > >> > >> For that price, it's certainly in the Impoverished builders budget. > > > >> > >> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) > >> Calgary, Alberta, Canada > >> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN > >> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com > > The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season > > > > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, ammiki(at)quezon.net, adseaver(at)hotmail.com, CHEAPEX(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Dec 23, 1999
Subject: Merry Christmas!
From the Williamson family! Merry Christmas and have a Happy new Melineum to all. Steve, Emelita And Nathan Williamson Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 1999
From: Richard DeCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: AirCamper.org
For those people who have enjoyed visiting the AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If theres anyone out there with the time to secure a server completely against these attacks, or has server space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll see about getting it back online for the hundreds of people who visit the site every week. Until then... It's been fun. See you "up there". Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, Richard DeCosta ===== rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 1999
From: John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Richard: I am very sorry to see it go! but I certianly understand your reasons. Maby in a few months you can try again, when the Idiot(s) who have nothing better to do than ruin others hard work and fun, have forgotten about us Pietenpolers. Merry Christmas To All Pietenpolers!!! John Duprey Richard DeCosta wrote: > > > For those people who have enjoyed visiting the > AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am > sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it > has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages > defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in > making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, > so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If > theres anyone out there with the time to secure a > server completely against these attacks, or has server > space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll > see about getting it back online for the hundreds of > people who visit the site every week. Until then... > > It's been fun. See you "up there". > > Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, > Richard DeCosta > > ===== > rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com > Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder > Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 1999
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
how sad it is that the sick action of some sorry a__ s.o.b. had to ruin such a valuable asset to the many builders and drivers of Piet and Piet like machines. hopefully in the near future a cure for this sickness can be found and the perpetrators of these crimes can be located and punished..I for one find Richard's site a most valuable reference site in the progression of my Piet project. what a shame it is that at this Christmas time, a time of giving, that so much was taken.. to all you followers of the Pietenpol movement, best wishes for a very merry Christmas and a very successful year ahead in the building and flying of your projects.. Richard Dc--your site was and is very much appreciated and hopefully, sometime in the future it will be resurrected stronger and safer than ever. regards JoeC Zion, Illinois Richard DeCosta wrote: > > For those people who have enjoyed visiting the > AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am > sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it > has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages > defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in > making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, > so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If > theres anyone out there with the time to secure a > server completely against these attacks, or has server > space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll > see about getting it back online for the hundreds of > people who visit the site every week. Until then... > > It's been fun. See you "up there". > > Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, > Richard DeCosta > > ===== > rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com > Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder > Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 24, 1999
Ditto! Thanks Richard. Too bad the jerks out there make it hard for the rest of us to have "things" Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all. Bert -----Original Message----- From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > >how sad it is that the sick action of some sorry a__ s.o.b. had to ruin such a >valuable asset to the many builders and drivers of Piet and Piet like machines. >hopefully in the near future a cure for this sickness can be found and the >perpetrators of these crimes can be located and punished..I for one find Richard's >site a most valuable reference site in the progression of my Piet project. what a >shame it is that at this Christmas time, a time of giving, that so much was taken.. > >to all you followers of the Pietenpol movement, best wishes for a very merry >Christmas and a very successful year ahead in the building and flying of your >projects.. >Richard Dc--your site was and is very much appreciated and hopefully, sometime in >the future it will be resurrected stronger and safer than ever. >regards >JoeC >Zion, Illinois > >Richard DeCosta wrote: > >> >> For those people who have enjoyed visiting the >> AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am >> sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it >> has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages >> defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in >> making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, >> so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If >> theres anyone out there with the time to secure a >> server completely against these attacks, or has server >> space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll >> see about getting it back online for the hundreds of >> people who visit the site every week. Until then... >> >> It's been fun. See you "up there". >> >> Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, >> Richard DeCosta >> >> ===== >> rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com >> Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder >> Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 24, 1999
Richard, I've gone almost three years without a Police Brutality Lawsuit. If you find the guilty culprit I'll be happy to take time to pay him a vist. Don't give up. We all loved the site and want to see it up and running again. Everyone, have a great holiday. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 1999
From: Steve Dortch <mcs1(at)onenet.net>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
I am sorry that I never got to see the air camper web site. I am currently rebuilding a 48 Bonanza and have a home project in line. But I want an inexpensive, cheap to fly, two seat, opencockpit airplane and the Air camper keeps popping up. I have been following the bulletin board and wish I had seen your site. Well, perhaps later, I am torn between building from scratch (A friend has given me a Model A engine, worn,out) or buying one already built from someone else. Any advice on what to look for? (what a silly question for this bulletin board.) Blue Skies to you Richard, Steve Dortch Conoly wrote: > > Ditto! > > Thanks Richard. Too bad the jerks out there make it hard for the rest of us > to have "things" > > Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all. > Bert > > -----Original Message----- > From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > > > > >how sad it is that the sick action of some sorry a__ s.o.b. had to ruin > such a > >valuable asset to the many builders and drivers of Piet and Piet like > machines. > >hopefully in the near future a cure for this sickness can be found and the > >perpetrators of these crimes can be located and punished..I for one find > Richard's > >site a most valuable reference site in the progression of my Piet project. > what a > >shame it is that at this Christmas time, a time of giving, that so much was > taken.. > > > >to all you followers of the Pietenpol movement, best wishes for a very > merry > >Christmas and a very successful year ahead in the building and flying of > your > >projects.. > >Richard Dc--your site was and is very much appreciated and hopefully, > sometime in > >the future it will be resurrected stronger and safer than ever. > >regards > >JoeC > >Zion, Illinois > > > >Richard DeCosta wrote: > > > > >> > >> For those people who have enjoyed visiting the > >> AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am > >> sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it > >> has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages > >> defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in > >> making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, > >> so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If > >> theres anyone out there with the time to secure a > >> server completely against these attacks, or has server > >> space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll > >> see about getting it back online for the hundreds of > >> people who visit the site every week. Until then... > >> > >> It's been fun. See you "up there". > >> > >> Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, > >> Richard DeCosta > >> > >> ===== > >> rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com > >> Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder > >> Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta > >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 24, 1999
Richard, Sorry to hear what happened to your great website. You surely helped me out by providing building tips, pictures , and other great information.I hope we can catch the sick individual that caused this. Once again, thanks for a great service from a fellow Piet builder, hope you can start it up again real soon. Sam -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 7:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > >For those people who have enjoyed visiting the >AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am >sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it >has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages >defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in >making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, >so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If >theres anyone out there with the time to secure a >server completely against these attacks, or has server >space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll >see about getting it back online for the hundreds of >people who visit the site every week. Until then... > >It's been fun. See you "up there". > >Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, >Richard DeCosta > > >===== >rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com >Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder >Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Date: Dec 24, 1999
Subject: Model A Engines
Well, One thing to look for is cylinder wall cracks or holes (small) and valve seat cracks. I had to give up on one engine because it let water into one of the cylinders. This was 40 years ago and there were tons of engines around. Today I would attempt a fix and put it in a car instead of scrapping it as I did then. Do Model A engines wear out? There are oversize pistons and rings available. Cranks and cams can be reground and new bearings poured. Don't give up on a good engine just because it's got some wear on it. I think that the wear shows it's strength. Time tested, as it were. Do pressure test the water passages though. External leaks in the water jackets can be fixed. Repaired internal leaks mean that the engine ought to be kept out of the air. Water is a rather poor oil additive. Lauren ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 26, 1999
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Richard, Let me add my expression of appreciation and regret over the demise of your site. It served as an inspiration to many of us, and it will be greatly missed. Best of the new year to you and yours. Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 26, 1999
Subject: Keeping Piet outside.
I am interested in how many of you keep your Piets/GN-1s outside and what did you do to preserve your planes. I remember someone said they had there Piet tied down outside for a year or so. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Date: Dec 26, 1999
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, tailwind-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Cool Fuel Cap Service...
Hi Listers, I wanted to pass on something I've found really handy and I'm sure will be of use to many others. Steve Davis of The Panel Pilot offers a exceptionally nice Fuel Cap Engraving service where he will engrave the octane requirements into your aircraft fuel caps. I find this particularly nice because I then don't have to put those cheesy circular octane stickers around the fuel tank filling ports. I sent my caps to Steve and received them back in a week or so as shown in the Fuel Cap photos below. A very nice service that is quite affordable and one that I would highly recommend. Steve will actually engrave just about anything, and also offers a Instrument Panel cutting service that is top notch. He is cutting the Panel for my RV-4 and I am working on a web page that will detail the process. Here are a couple of pictures of the fuel caps Steve did for my RV-4: http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/NewPanel/FuelCap1.jpg http://www.matronics.com/mattsrv4/NewPanel/FuelCap2.jpg Also have a look at Steve's Panel Pilot web page found at: http://members.aol.com/panelcut or you can email him directly at: panelcut(at)aol.com Best regards to all, Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder by night... Email List Admin pretty much 24 & 7... -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ted Brousseau" <nfn00979(at)naples.net>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 26, 1999
Richard, How much room did the web site occupy? Ted Brousseau Naples, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: <ADonJr(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > > Richard, > Let me add my expression of appreciation and regret over the demise of your > site. It served as an inspiration to many of us, and it will be greatly > missed. Best of the new year to you and yours. > Don Cooley ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 1999
From: Richard DeCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
About 330MB with all the movies, images, etc. I think I have a solution anyway, which was suggested by someone on the list (dont remember who): I am now installing FreeBSD on the old AirCamper.org server. If all goes well I'll reopen AirCamper.org running FreeBSD, apache, php and mySql within a few weeks. FreeBSD is supposedly the most secure system there is for servers. Wish me luck! Richard --- Ted Brousseau wrote: > Brousseau" > > Richard, > > How much room did the web site occupy? > > Ted Brousseau > Naples, FL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ADonJr(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > > > ADonJr(at)aol.com > > > > Richard, > > Let me add my expression of appreciation and > regret over the demise of > your > > site. It served as an inspiration to many of us, > and it will be greatly > > missed. Best of the new year to you and yours. > > Don Cooley > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > ===== rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 1999
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
After all the time and money I spent on building a plane I can fly I am keeping mine hangered. Building was fun but expensive and I don't intend to do that again for some time to come. jas > >I am interested in how many of you keep your Piets/GN-1s outside and what >did you do to preserve your planes. I remember someone said they had >there Piet tied down outside for a year or so. > >Steve > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
Date: Dec 27, 1999
> >I am interested in how many of you keep your Piets/GN-1s outside and what >did you do to preserve your planes. I remember someone said they had >there Piet tied down outside for a year or so. > >Steve > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 > Keeping a wood & fabric airplane outside aint good. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 1999
From: Chris Cheney <cheneygetback(at)yahoo.com>
Please take me off the list cheneygetback(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 27, 1999
Subject: NOT my intention!
I am not intending to store my GN outside. I am only gathering information mostly on how others treat there crafts. I wouldn't put mine outside either. It surely would destroy it. Too much Blood/Sweat/and tears to mess it up like that. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 1999
From: Steve Dortch <mcs1(at)onenet.net>
Subject: Re: NOT my intention!
Steve, Good Idea to clarify your intentions. Off line I heard that people were looking for a tall tree and a short rope for anyone who would store their "piet" outside. I worked as a line boy at a FBO in Williamsburg, Virginia and we had quite a few planes kept outside. I worked there three years and I could watch them deteriorate. Even the Metal ones. The glass and interior would start going. Of course many were in bad shape before and this was a continuation of how their owners took care of them. One Doctor would do a preflight by calling us the day before and having us top his gas and put in oil. Then he would drive out and circle the plane in his car. The next day he just climbed in and took off. Amazingly he did get to retire from flying but I don't know how. Here in Oklahoma (both tornado and Hail alley,) I keep both my Cessna 150 (for sale) and my Bonanza hangered. It is cheaper than restoration work. Blue Skies. Steve Dortch vistin(at)juno.com wrote: > > I am not intending to store my GN outside. I am only gathering > information mostly on how others treat there crafts. I wouldn't put mine > outside either. It surely would destroy it. Too much Blood/Sweat/and > tears to mess it up like that. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Keeping Piet outside.
Date: Dec 27, 1999
I kept mine outside for a year before I could find a hanger for it. I fabricated cockpit covers that fit tight. I also covered the engine and prop the best I could with a tarp bungeed down. Also a good idea to lock the controls with the seat belt and gust lock the rudder. I made sure that I went out during heavy snows and swept the wing clean. Glad those days are over and I now have my own roof to keep most of the weather out. Sometime you do what you have to do, but if you have the choice keep it under cover. Steve E. NX7229R -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Brusilow Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Keeping Piet outside. > >I am interested in how many of you keep your Piets/GN-1s outside and what >did you do to preserve your planes. I remember someone said they had >there Piet tied down outside for a year or so. > >Steve > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 > Keeping a wood & fabric airplane outside aint good. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
Date: Dec 27, 1999
> >I kept mine outside for a year before I could find a hanger for it. I >fabricated cockpit covers that fit tight.............. Cockpit covers, a great idea. The front cover sure keeps the wind from climbing up your pant leg. Here's how I did mine. I made heavy paper patterns of both cockpits. Just traced around the cockpits & cut on the lines. I took them to a boat canvas shop & in no time at all I had two tight fitting covers. They supplied all the snaps. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 27, 1999
So sorry. What a pity that people get into destroying the labours of others. I really enjoyed the site richard and hope that some how a way can be found to get it up again. It is a wonderful resource. Thanks again for your efforts, John McNarry -----Original Message----- From: Richard DeCosta <curiousspider(at)yahoo.com> Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 5:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > >For those people who have enjoyed visiting the >AirCamper.org website over the past few years, I am >sorry to say it is no more. Over the past 5 days it >has been hacked into more than once, and it's pages >defaced. I do not have the time or money to spend in >making it totally secure against attacks of this kind, >so I am simply shutting it down indefinately. If >theres anyone out there with the time to secure a >server completely against these attacks, or has server >space with ColdFusion support, contact me and we'll >see about getting it back online for the hundreds of >people who visit the site every week. Until then... > >It's been fun. See you "up there". > >Sincere appologies and Merry Christmas, >Richard DeCosta > > >===== >rdecost1(at)maine.rr.com >Homepage: http://www.aircamper.org/w3builder >Film Music: http://www.mp3.com/RichardDeCosta > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aircamper.org
Date: Dec 28, 1999
List: We really owe Richard a debt of gratitude for attempting to preserve aircamper.org. What a Godsend it has been to look at the great pictures when you get stuck on the plans. If Richard will put his address here, I'll be more than glad to make a donation to help with all the new firewall software. Thanks, Richard, from one builder for your perserverence! Doug Sheets ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1999
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: fuselage bottom ply
well boys, made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. I hav'nt put any cross pieces in the bottom yet. here are the options I can think of. cut it lengthwise just inside the longerons, and belt sand the remaining material off. -or- leave it on and laminate another 1/8 piece on the inside on all of it, or just the critical places where you might put your weight on it when you get in and out. I assume 1/4 inch is used on the bottom because you step on it getting in and out, and not for structural strength. all comments welcome. thanks much del Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: fuselage bottom ply
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Sounds structural to me. I remember thinking that 1/4" wouldn't hold my weight. I would replace it with the right stuff. Another way to get back down to the longeron, that I would use instead of a belt sander, is a block plane. It is very easy to get exactly flat and precise with a block plane. Good Luck. (though you probably won't need it) Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of del magsam Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage bottom ply well boys, made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. I hav'nt put any cross pieces in the bottom yet. here are the options I can think of. cut it lengthwise just inside the longerons, and belt sand the remaining material off. -or- leave it on and laminate another 1/8 piece on the inside on all of it, or just the critical places where you might put your weight on it when you get in and out. I assume 1/4 inch is used on the bottom because you step on it getting in and out, and not for structural strength. all comments welcome. thanks much del Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
Steve, It's not good to keep a Piet or any airplane outside for long periods of time. The UV rays from the sun does nasty things to fabric and wood, even these supossedly long life dacrons. If you need to keep the plane outside, fly it often; at least once a week. this will help dry out moisture that has accumulated from rain, dew, snow, or whatever. I've annualed as many as seventy airplanes a year for the past 28 years and the ones that always are the biggest bags of worms are the ones that aren't flown much. This includes the ones stored in hangars on dirt floors. Planes need to be flown and dried out often. Many years ago when I lived in Iowa I would annual a PA-18A that the owner would fly at least fifteen minutes a year whether it needed it or not. The last couple of annuals I did I just went out and signed the log books as nothing would ever wear out, just corrode or rot. The owner would always call me two or three days ahead of time to tell me he wanted to fly and to get his airplane ready. That was the real annual. I would get the airplane out, chage the battery, clean out the rats nests, and look things over for serious corrosion and rotted fabric. It would usually take me a couple of days to get this thing ready for flight and I would nearly cry as I watched him fly it around the patch a couple of times and put in the hangar for another year. Keeping a plane hangared is always the best deal if you can afford it. But it still needs to be flown. John Langston Pipe Creek, TX nle97(at)juno.com YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Subject: Re: fuselage bottom ply
Del, I think I would just glue another piece of 1/8" plywood under the existing piece. Just be sure it's completely glued all over before tacking down. Use some weights to help distribute glueing pressur evenly throughout. John Langston Pipe Creek, TX nle97(at)juno.com writes: > > >well boys, >made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse >floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used >my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. I hav'nt put any >cross pieces in the bottom yet. >here are the options I can think of. cut it lengthwise >just inside the longerons, and belt sand the remaining >material off. -or- leave it on and laminate another >1/8 piece on the inside on all of it, or just the >critical places where you might put your weight on it >when you get in and out. >I assume 1/4 inch is used on the bottom because you >step on it getting in and out, and not for structural >strength. >all comments welcome. >thanks much >del > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wayne" <sippola(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: fuselage bottom ply
Date: Dec 28, 1999
I used two ply's of 1/8 for my fuselage bottom. I would suggest you laminate the 2'nd piece directly over the first piece so it's on the bottom (outside). Much easier that way. If you used nails, I think I'd just set them in below the surface and glue the second piece right over. Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg ---------- > From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> > To: piet aircamper > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage bottom ply > Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 10:43 AM > > > well boys, > made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse > floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used > my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. I hav'nt put any ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: Keeping Piet outside.
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Agreed. Fortunatly, I have put nearly 170 hours on my Piet in the last two years. Concrete and a door are this spring's projects. Now if you will excuse me I've got to go flyin.... :) Severe clear and warm! Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of nle97(at)juno.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Keeping Piet outside. Steve, It's not good to keep a Piet or any airplane outside for long periods of time. The UV rays from the sun does nasty things to fabric and wood, even these supossedly long life dacrons. If you need to keep the plane outside, fly it often; at least once a week. this will help dry out moisture that has accumulated from rain, dew, snow, or whatever. I've annualed as many as seventy airplanes a year for the past 28 years and the ones that always are the biggest bags of worms are the ones that aren't flown much. This includes the ones stored in hangars on dirt floors. Planes need to be flown and dried out often. Many years ago when I lived in Iowa I would annual a PA-18A that the owner would fly at least fifteen minutes a year whether it needed it or not. The last couple of annuals I did I just went out and signed the log books as nothing would ever wear out, just corrode or rot. The owner would always call me two or three days ahead of time to tell me he wanted to fly and to get his airplane ready. That was the real annual. I would get the airplane out, chage the battery, clean out the rats nests, and look things over for serious corrosion and rotted fabric. It would usually take me a couple of days to get this thing ready for flight and I would nearly cry as I watched him fly it around the patch a couple of times and put in the hangar for another year. Keeping a plane hangared is always the best deal if you can afford it. But it still needs to be flown. John Langston Pipe Creek, TX nle97(at)juno.com YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1999
From: Steve Dortch <mcs1(at)onenet.net>
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
Hey, I am interested in an open cockpit, two seat, cheap to fly airplane just for fun. The Piet seems to fit the bill. I am currently working on a 48 Bonanza and then the wife says that I must work on the house. Then I have some work to do on a Jeep. As you can see I will not be building or buying an Air Camper in the near future. But, I would like to take a closer look at one and perhaps get to go flying in one. Then I can look at what a next project. Does anyone know of any Piets within 150 miles of Enid, OK? that would be willing to let me poke around their plane and bore them with questions? Thanks, Steve D. WDG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: fuselage bottom ply
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage bottom ply > >well boys, >made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse >floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used >my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. >I assume 1/4 inch is used on the bottom because you >step on it getting in and out, and not for structural >strength. >all comments welcome. >thanks much >del > I would glue an 1/8 ply on the outside, cross grain if possible. Strong as single 1/4 in or maybe stronger. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chanter, Mike (M.F.)" <mchanter(at)jaguar.com>
Subject: RE: lycoming 145
Date: Dec 28, 1999
> -----Original Message----- > From: Chanter, Mike (M.F.) > Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 2:54 PM > To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: lycoming 145 > > has anyone ever installed one in a piet ? looking for feedback, thanx. > > Mike Chanter > Liaison Build & Development Resident > JAGUAR AJ V6 ENGINE PROGRAMS > POEE Bldg. - 21500 Oakwood Blvd. > Dearborn, Michigan 48121 - 2053 > Ph. - (313) 33 - 72889 > Fax - (313) 39 - 09146 > Beeper - (313) 795 - 7515 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1999
From: mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: remove me from list
============================================================ > please stop sending me piet mail, i have found what i was looking for and now need to stop the mail thanks markmastra(at)yahoo.com > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1999
From: mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
--- Chris Cheney wrote: > > > Please take me off the list cheneygetback(at)yahoo.com > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage bottom ply
Date: Dec 28, 1999
Bummer, Del! I did a silmilar thing. In a fit of impatience a couple years ago, I went down to the local Lowes and bought some of that 1/4 inch "birch" garbage they call plywood. I was out of material, bored silly on a Sunday afternoon, and wanted to work on my plane. So after a days worth of glueing that lousy ply in as a floorboard, I looked it over on Monday. I spent the next Saturday cutting, grinding, and sanding everything back down to the longerons and replacing it with Marine A-B from Wicks that I ordered that very Monday. Sigh......... But you know what, I'm glad did! Good luck! Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "del magsam" <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage bottom ply > > well boys, > made my first mistake. after I had cut out the fuse > floor and glued and nailed it on. I discovered I used > my 1/8 inch material instead of 1/4. I hav'nt put any > cross pieces in the bottom yet. > here are the options I can think of. cut it lengthwise > just inside the longerons, and belt sand the remaining > material off. -or- leave it on and laminate another > 1/8 piece on the inside on all of it, or just the > critical places where you might put your weight on it > when you get in and out. > I assume 1/4 inch is used on the bottom because you > step on it getting in and out, and not for structural > strength. > all comments welcome. > thanks much > del > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 28, 1999
To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture directly if one is available. I suspect the US.regs might be different. Thanks in advance. Doug Hunt C-GCGJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Hi Doug Way back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to have shoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95 I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, through a pulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same down the other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable. Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2 over a single point installation-easier on the airframe. I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not it would actually work. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > >To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; > Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you >installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture >directly if one is available. > I suspect the US.regs might be different. > Thanks in advance. >Doug Hunt >C-GCGJ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Subject: Piet's in Enid area
Steve Dortch: You might check the EAA Chapter for the Tulsa area. There are supposed to be 2 or 3 piets in the Collinsville area. I can't give you a name, but one regularly fly's his to the ch. 88 fly in at Eldorado (Wichita) Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage bottom ply
Date: Dec 29, 1999
I did something similar on my VP-1. So I made a test piece of 2 1/8" plys and tested to failure against a piece of 1/4" for both side load and tension. The 1/8" laminate held up better by almost 50%. That made my decision and I just laminated a second ply of 1/8". I put on a coat of epoxy (west) on both pieces of ply and lightly scraped the excess off with a cheap plastic scrapper/trowel. This left a niece even thin coat. I then waited for it to get slightly tacky. Then pressed both pieces together and weighted the assembly with a large cloth bag of sand. Greg Yotz Ready to cover waiting for warm weather.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1999
From: "Gene Tomblin" <tombling(at)mercyships.org>
Subject: Re:Laughlin fly-in ?
Hello everyone, A day or two ago I saw mention of a gathering in Laughlin Nevada mentioned either on the Pietenpol or engines list I made a mental note of this because William Wynne was supposed to be their with his Piet and I would like to talk to him . Does anyone know about a Fly-in in Laughlin Nevada. I have checked the EAA site and a few other air show web sites with no luck. Gene Tomblin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Hi Doug I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is very similar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behind the front seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with small pulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cable could stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between the shoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good look under the cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a cross piece able to withstand a high compressive load. John Mc -----Original Message----- From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > >Hi Doug > >Way back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to have >shoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95 > >I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, through a >pulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same down >the other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable. > >Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2 >over a single point installation-easier on the airframe. > >I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not >it would actually work. > >Mike >-----Original Message----- >From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > > >> >>To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; >> Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you >>installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture >>directly if one is available. >> I suspect the US.regs might be different. >> Thanks in advance. >>Doug Hunt >>C-GCGJ >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1999
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
there was string on shoulder harnesses last fall. the conclusion of it was. It doesn't matter what regs are, put em in. it was said that people have died hitting their head on the dash. And try to put the attach pts above or even with the top of your shoulders, because if they are below they will break your back by compressing it down. del --- Doug wrote: > > > To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; > Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or > just a lap belt?If you > installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor > them,can send me a picture > directly if one is available. > I suspect the US.regs might be different. > Thanks in advance. > Doug Hunt > C-GCGJ > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1999
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re:Laughlin fly-in ?
http://www.si-inc.com/MSFly-In2000/ the above link should get you there. If not, its in the corvaircraft web page. --- Gene Tomblin wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > A day or two ago I saw mention of a gathering in > Laughlin Nevada mentioned either > on the Pietenpol or engines list I made a mental > note of this because William > Wynne was supposed to be their with his Piet and I > would like to talk to him . > Does anyone know about a Fly-in in Laughlin Nevada. > I have checked the EAA site > and a few other air show web sites with no luck. > > Gene Tomblin > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1999
From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Subject: Del's first foray
Del, Cheer up, you must have been following my approach to building things; get the mistakes out of the way first and then go on from there. My vote would be to look at the fuselage areas that would need the most support when being stepped on and add another layer of 1/8 ply there. Then you could say that you were just trying to keep the weight down by using the 1/8 in non-critical areas. You got me to check my plans and they call for 7/32" for the floor, so you didn't go very far afield. Back in '32 the plywood most likely used may have been exterior grade without interior voids filled. The plywood you're using now is much better. Go for a second layer in select areas. Best wishes, Rodger ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1999
From: Steve Dortch <mcs1(at)onenet.net>
Subject: Re: Del's first foray
Perhaps, you could leave it 1/8th inch plywood and if your feet break through then you can take off and land like the Flintstones. They had Piets didn't they? Steve Dortch Rodger & Betty wrote: > > Del, > > Cheer up, you must have been following my approach to building things; > get the mistakes out of the way first and then go on from there. > > My vote would be to look at the fuselage areas that would need the most > support when being stepped on and add another layer of 1/8 ply there. > Then you could say that you were just trying to keep the weight down > by using the 1/8 in non-critical areas. > > You got me to check my plans and they call for 7/32" for the floor, so > you didn't go very far afield. Back in '32 the plywood most likely used > may have been exterior grade without interior voids filled. The plywood > you're using now is much better. Go for a second layer in select areas. > > Best wishes, > Rodger > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Yes, Good luck Richard. Domenic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Keeping Piet outside.
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Tom Bowdler may have one for sale in the Spring as soon as he gets his other one flying. Regards, Domenic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Mike, I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The cable came forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was fixed to a steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross member, there was no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a fitting just through the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be used to attach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness could then attach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along and when I saw your posting it reminded me. I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian Piet. that crashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the first cluster behind the pilot. Domenic ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Hi Doug, I installed both. I attached it to the 1/8 " cross wires just behind the passengers head. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
I would like more information on your shoulder harness setup. Maybe you have pictures? Steve writes: > > > Mike, > > I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The > cable > came forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was > fixed to > a steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross > member, there > was no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a > fitting just > through the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be > used to > attach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness > could then > attach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along > and > when I saw your posting it reminded me. > I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian > Piet. that > crashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the > first > cluster behind the pilot. > > Domenic > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Subject: Western red ceder.
Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? I remember someone mentioning it and I have found some locally. The local 'Home quarters"? I think had a stack of fence material so I saunterd over and read the shipping tag. Guess what its western red ceder much to my surprise. I had called them some time ago asking them if they had this kind of wood and the Manager himself told me they dont have any such wood like that. I immediately found him and led him to his own stock. Wonder whare he was hired from. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > >Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? >Steve > >Steve W GN-1 builder >IHA #6 Sure did. That fellow ( damn, can't remember his name ) who sells the rib sets at Brodhead,& a great set of ribs they are, uses ceder. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Dec 29, 1999
The load on a single rib in most low-speed light airplanes is so low they could probably be made of cardboard and still work OK...oh, wait a minute, Molt Talyer did that already... The main problems in selecting material is the flexability and "flex" resistance. I once saw some beutiful ribs made of 1/ 16" square ash. you could stand on them and the would take the load as long as it was applied GENTLY. as soon as the were "shock loaded" about 20% of a gentle load they shattered. BTW--the tail bows on the flybaby are SPECED for laminated fence post ceder. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > >> >>Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? >Steve >> >>Steve W GN-1 builder >>IHA #6 > > >Sure did. That fellow ( damn, can't remember his name ) who sells the rib >sets at Brodhead,& a great set of ribs they are, uses ceder. > >Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
---------- > From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:47 AM > > Thanks Mike,sorry to here that you lost your garage,how far along was your project at the time? Doug....... > > I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not > it would actually work. > > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > > > > > >To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; > > Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you > >installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture > >directly if one is available. > > I suspect the US.regs might be different. > > Thanks in advance. > >Doug Hunt > >C-GCGJ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol shoulder harness, and some history of your
project....
Date: Dec 29, 1999
---------- > From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > To: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol shoulder harness, and some history of your project.... > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 6:35 PM > > > > ---------- > From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> > To: ve6zh(at)oanet.com > Subject: Pietenpol shoulder harness, and some history of your project.... > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 12:05 PM > > > Thanks to all for the ideas on the shoulder harness issue. > Graham,i have not flown mine yet,hope to do this this spring,trying to get > all the little remaining things wrapped up,then call for my final > inspection.Hope that i can have the inspection performed in my home garage > as it is fully assembled and warm.The empty weight is 640#+- a few#.Have a > hanger at the Bashaw strip when its ready. > Send me your address and i will send a couple of pictures. > Thanks again .Doug Hunt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Thanks John,maybe the answer. Doug ---------- > From: John McNarry <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 10:21 AM > McNarry) > > Hi Doug > I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is very > similar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behind the > front seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with small > pulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cable > could stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between the > shoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good look under > the cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a cross > piece able to withstand a high compressive load. > John Mc > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:50 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > > > > > >Hi Doug > > > >Way back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to have > >shoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95 > > > >I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, through > a > >pulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same down > >the other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable. > > > >Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2 > >over a single point installation-easier on the airframe. > > > >I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not > >it would actually work. > > > >Mike > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > > > > > >> > >>To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; > >> Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you > >>installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture > >>directly if one is available. > >> I suspect the US.regs might be different. > >> Thanks in advance. > >>Doug Hunt > >>C-GCGJ > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 29, 1999
Hi Dom,would you have a pic.of this install?From what i gather your harness is attached above the the rear instument panel just forward of the windshield. Doug ---------- > From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 1:32 PM > > > Hi Doug, > I installed both. I attached it to the 1/8 " cross wires just behind the > passengers head. > Dom. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kyle ray" <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Aug 21, 1999
Then answer this question for me why are Louisville sluggers MADE OF ASH and why did Mr., Pietenpol have ash installed in the floor at the most critical attachment point (struts) if ASH can't take loads. My personal opinion is that shock resistance of ASH is superior to other woods with maybe the exception of maple, this is when dimensioned the same. russell ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > The load on a single rib in most low-speed light airplanes is so low they > could probably be made of cardboard and still work OK...oh, wait a minute, > Molt Talyer did that already... > > The main problems in selecting material is the flexability and "flex" > resistance. I once saw some beutiful ribs made of 1/ 16" square ash. you > could stand on them and the would take the load as long as it was applied > GENTLY. as soon as the were "shock loaded" about 20% of a gentle load they > shattered. > > BTW--the tail bows on the flybaby are SPECED for laminated fence post ceder. > > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > > > > > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > > > > >> > >>Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? >Steve > >> > >>Steve W GN-1 builder > >>IHA #6 > > > > > >Sure did. That fellow ( damn, can't remember his name ) who sells the rib > >sets at Brodhead,& a great set of ribs they are, uses ceder. > > > >Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Ash takes loads just fine (in fact, my next airplane project is gonna have 3/4" square ash longerons) but it is heavy and has a relatively low shock resistance (still higher than spruce though). It also tends to splinter/shatter instead of breaking clean (look at a broken bat to get the idea) Remember, these ribs were 1/16" square to get roughly the same weight as spruce ribs (I dont remember which planethey were for-- it was just a "can it be done" type stunt) which I suspect is why they broke when "mistreated" as a general rule ash is 8-10 times stronger than sitka BUT you can't reduce the sizes by a factor of 8-10. You said it exactly right, when dimesioned the same (or a hair smaller) Mike -----Original Message----- From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > >Then answer this question for me why are Louisville sluggers >MADE OF ASH and why did Mr., Pietenpol have ash installed >in the floor at the most critical attachment point (struts) if ASH >can't take loads. My personal opinion is that shock resistance of ASH is >superior to other woods with maybe the exception of maple, this is when >dimensioned the same. > > russell > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:09 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > >> >> The load on a single rib in most low-speed light airplanes is so low they >> could probably be made of cardboard and still work OK...oh, wait a minute, >> Molt Talyer did that already... >> >> The main problems in selecting material is the flexability and "flex" >> resistance. I once saw some beutiful ribs made of 1/ 16" square ash. you >> could stand on them and the would take the load as long as it was applied >> GENTLY. as soon as the were "shock loaded" about 20% of a gentle load they >> shattered. >> >> BTW--the tail bows on the flybaby are SPECED for laminated fence post >ceder. >> >> Mike >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. >> >> >> >> > >> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. >> > >> > >> >> >> >>Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? >Steve >> >> >> >>Steve W GN-1 builder >> >>IHA #6 >> > >> > >> >Sure did. That fellow ( damn, can't remember his name ) who sells the rib >> >sets at Brodhead,& a great set of ribs they are, uses ceder. >> > >> >Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) >> > >> > >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Mike When reading the Flying and Gliding manuals I noted that Bernard Pietenpol suggested wrapping the longerons with doped fabric strips. his reasoning was to prevent the longerons splintering when broken making what he called "toad stabbers". Seems like a good idea to me Bernard claimed the wrapped longerons broke cleanly. I hope I never break mine but the little added insurance against being impalled seems like a ggo plan. John -----Original Message----- From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > >Ash takes loads just fine (in fact, my next airplane project is gonna have >3/4" square ash longerons) but it is heavy and has a relatively low shock >resistance (still higher than spruce though). It also tends to >splinter/shatter instead of breaking clean (look at a broken bat to get the >idea) > >Remember, these ribs were 1/16" square to get roughly the same weight as >spruce ribs (I dont remember which planethey were for-- it was just a "can >it be done" type stunt) which I suspect is why they broke when "mistreated" > >as a general rule ash is 8-10 times stronger than sitka BUT you can't reduce >the sizes by a factor of 8-10. You said it exactly right, when dimesioned >the same (or a hair smaller) > >Mike >-----Original Message----- >From: kyle ray <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:26 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. > > >> >>Then answer this question for me why are Louisville sluggers >>MADE OF ASH and why did Mr., Pietenpol have ash installed >>in the floor at the most critical attachment point (struts) if ASH >>can't take loads. My personal opinion is that shock resistance of ASH is >>superior to other woods with maybe the exception of maple, this is when >>dimensioned the same. >> >> russell >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net> >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:09 PM >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. >> >> >>> >>> The load on a single rib in most low-speed light airplanes is so low they >>> could probably be made of cardboard and still work OK...oh, wait a >minute, >>> Molt Talyer did that already... >>> >>> The main problems in selecting material is the flexability and "flex" >>> resistance. I once saw some beutiful ribs made of 1/ 16" square ash. you >>> could stand on them and the would take the load as long as it was applied >>> GENTLY. as soon as the were "shock loaded" about 20% of a gentle load >they >>> shattered. >>> >>> BTW--the tail bows on the flybaby are SPECED for laminated fence post >>ceder. >>> >>> Mike >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> >>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 4:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Western red ceder. >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >>Has anyone used this type of wood in building there ribs? >Steve >>> >> >>> >>Steve W GN-1 builder >>> >>IHA #6 >>> > >>> > >>> >Sure did. That fellow ( damn, can't remember his name ) who sells the >rib >>> >sets at Brodhead,& a great set of ribs they are, uses ceder. >>> > >>> >Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr sam ) >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Steve, I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have pictures from inside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and send it to you if you like. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Doug, I don't have a picture of the front shoulder harness installation. The lap belt is fixed to the ash cross member on the floor, but the shoulder harness is just clipped on at the junction of the the two 1/8" cables just ahead of the rear windshield. I hadn't used the front yet because I only flew it 5 hours. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Dom: I would appreciate it! Thanks Steve writes: > > > Steve, > > I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have > pictures from > inside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and > send it > to you if you like. > > Dom. > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Date: Dec 30, 1999
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
The ash in the test ribs was 1/16" square. Ash is a very capable structural hardwood. Western red cedar is a very capable softwood, highly rot resistant besides. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1999
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Thanks for your effort, Dom. I would be interested in seeing it also. del --- Domenico Bellissimo wrote: > Bellissimo" > > Steve, > > I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt > that I have pictures from > inside the fuselage though. I could make you a > drawing, scan it and send it > to you if you like. > > Dom. > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
aeroengines(at)listbot.com, fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, ammiki(at)quezon.net, adseaver(at)hotmail.com, CHEAPEX(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com, lpasley(at)prodigy.net
Date: Dec 31, 1999
Subject: 2000
HAPPY NEW YEAR TOO ALL AND I HOPE THE Y2K BUG GETS STOMPED GOOD! STEVE AND FAMILY Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Need weight and balance data for Scout.
Date: Dec 31, 1999
Hello and happy new millenneum to all. We're finishing the W&B for Larry Harrison's Chrysler-powered Scout. Do you guys know any W&B numbers for any flying Scouts? Or who to call to ask. The 4 cyl Chrysler engine weighs in at 244 lbs so seems to fit pretty closely to the A-model (or so I'm told, aint never tried to pick one up...). It's 99% complete and waiting on Mr. FAA to AOK. I'll let you guys know how it flies. By the way, I got to fly Poplar Piet today. WOWWWW! What a blast. With the exception of my sloppy, 4 foot bounce upon landing (I did gather it up and managed to recover into a decent landing) it was more fun than I imagined. For all you guys building or thinking of it. YES! It IS as much fun as you think it will be! Anyway back to the Scout, thanks in advance for any weight and balance info. I promise to try to get some pictures up on my site by Sunday if possible Happy new Year, Bert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "CHarles M. Mullins" <cmullins(at)vallnet.com>
Subject: Re: 5K 2000
Date: Dec 31, 1999
I've been stomping it for a few months. It's easy! Charles Mullins Fayetteville, Tn ----- Original Message ----- From: <vistin(at)juno.com> ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: 5K 2000 > 5K - http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR TOO ALL AND I HOPE THE Y2K BUG GETS STOMPED GOOD! > > STEVE AND FAMILY > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to fly5k-unsubscribe(at)listbot.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > Applying to college this year? > Apply online at Embark.com and enter the Embark.com Tuition Sweepstakes! You could win $80,000 for tuition to the college of your dreams! Enter daily to increase your chances of winning: Sweepstakes ends 1/15/00. Click to enter: http://www.listbot.com/links/embark > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness
Date: Dec 31, 1999
Thanks Dom,would like that. Doug. ---------- > From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness > Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 6:57 PM > > > Steve, > > I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have pictures from > inside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and send it > to you if you like. > > Dom. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kyle ray" <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: 2000
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Happy new year! Russell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kyle ray" <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: Re: Western red ceder.
Date: Jan 01, 2000
White ash is used to make base ball bats (Louisville Sluggers) and pool sticks becauser of its shock resistance! russell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Need weight and balance data for Scout.
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > >Hello and happy new millenneum to all. > >We're finishing the W&B for Larry Harrison's Chrysler-powered Scout. > >Do you guys know any W&B numbers for any flying Scouts? Or who to >call to >ask. Kyle Bradford in Eaton Rapids MI, or Gar Williams in Brodhead WI or Ed Sampson somewhere in WI. Good luck!! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: W&B
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Larry Williams inquired about Scout W&B. Ed Snyder of Cliftion Park NY has a completed Scout No email, but you can reach him at: 518 7659398 Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Drag/Antidrag wires
Yall: I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: GN-1 pictures.
Is there any websites that have any pictures of the GN-1? I sure would like to see some . If any of you have some please email them too me. Both under construction and finished. Thanks Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 stock and a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel the wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good luck. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > Yall: > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2000
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 pictures.
just curious, I assume that someone took the pietenpol and made enough changes to rename it a GN 1. what are those changes or how is it different? thanks, del --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote: > vistin(at)juno.com > > Is there any websites that have any pictures of the > GN-1? I sure would > like to see some . If any of you have some please > email them too me. Both > under construction and finished. > > Thanks > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 pictures.
Date: Jan 01, 2000
In a nutshell, the Pietenpol is (scout or aircamper) an origianal design based on homebuilt parts. A GN-1 uses the same basic appearance and dimensions, but is intended to be built with surplus J-3 parts. It has a different airfoil, and the rest has been changed enought to accept the cub parts and get around copyright laws. Mike -----Original Message----- From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 pictures. > >just curious, >I assume that someone took the pietenpol and made >enough changes to rename it a GN 1. what are those >changes or how is it different? >thanks, del > >--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote: >> vistin(at)juno.com >> >> Is there any websites that have any pictures of the >> GN-1? I sure would >> like to see some . If any of you have some please >> email them too me. Both >> under construction and finished. >> >> Thanks >> Steve >> >> Steve W GN-1 builder >> IHA #6 >> >> >> >> through >> >> http://www.matronics.com/archives >> >> Settlement... >> http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html >> >> >> >> >> > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Tim, What about cables with turnbuckles? I would guess that the drag/antidrag forces in the wing would be well under the tensil strengths of say 1/8 th inch cables. Of Course you have to deal with buying several turnbuckles, huh? Wonder how the tensil capacities for cable stack up against that of threaded rod? Hmmm. might have to check on this more. What about it? any of you out there got an opinion? I'm not an A>) Thanks, Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 stock and > a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel the > wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good luck. > Copinfo(at)home.com > Tim Cunningham > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > Yall: > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > > > Steve > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > IHA #6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Date: Jan 01, 2000
I used 4 bays in each wing of 3/16 1020,fabed up angled fittings for adjustment.Turn buckles deadly $. Doug ---------- > From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:27 PM > > > Tim, What about cables with turnbuckles? I would guess that the > drag/antidrag forces in the wing would be well under the tensil strengths of > say 1/8 th inch cables. Of Course you have to deal with buying several > turnbuckles, huh? Wonder how the tensil capacities for cable stack up > against that of threaded rod? Hmmm. might have to check on this more. > > What about it? any of you out there got an opinion? > > I'm not an A>) > Thanks, Bert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 stock > and > > a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel the > > wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good > luck. > > Copinfo(at)home.com > > Tim Cunningham > > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > Yall: > > > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > > IHA #6 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Could you go a little farther in your explaination? 3/16th what and 1020 what. Steve > > I used 4 bays in each wing of 3/16 1020,fabed up angled fittings > for > adjustment.Turn buckles deadly $. > Doug > > > ---------- > > From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:27 PM > > > > > > > Tim, What about cables with turnbuckles? I would guess that the > > drag/antidrag forces in the wing would be well under the tensil > strengths > of > > say 1/8 th inch cables. Of Course you have to deal with buying > several > > turnbuckles, huh? Wonder how the tensil capacities for cable > stack up > > against that of threaded rod? Hmmm. might have to check on this > more. > > > > What about it? any of you out there got an opinion? > > > > I'm not an A>) > > Thanks, Bert > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some > 5/32 stock > > and > > > a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to > trammel > the > > > wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. > Good > > luck. > > > Copinfo(at)home.com > > > Tim Cunningham > > > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > > > > Yall: > > > > > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I > am > building > > > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that > stage. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > > > IHA #6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > >Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 >stock and >a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel >the >wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good >luck. >Copinfo(at)home.com >Tim Cunningham >Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > >Tim 5/32 WHAT stock? Fencing wire, clothesline, guy-wire, rope, aluminum, dowel, welding rod, piano wire??? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: GN-1 pictures.
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > >just curious, >I assume that someone took the pietenpol and made >enough changes to rename it a GN 1. what are those >changes or how is it different? >thanks, del > >Del John Grega and his thinly disguised attempt to plagarize the tried-and-true Pietenpol Air Camper is just another fascinating footnote in homebuilt history. His intentions were probably well-founded but using the Air Camper's highly recognized outlines and having the audacity to call it an "Aircamper" seem a little underhanded and dishonest to most of us in the Pietenpol camp. He basically beefed up an airplane that didn't need beefing up in the first place, devised a way to scavenge parts of a junked Cub to complete it, slapped the name Aircamper on the resulting craft, and started selling plans. (Oh, OK there was a little more to it than that, but that's the bottom line.) I have spoken to several people who have bought plans from the classified section in Sport Aviation believing them to be Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper plans only to find out that they had been misled by the bold lettered "Aircamper" ad. One man had alreay started some initial construction before he found out his mistake. John Grega and his airplane have scores of adherents who are completely satisfied with their airplanes, but PLEASE.......it's a GN-1 and has nothing to do with Mr. Pietenpol or his wonderful old design. Look for the Pietenpol AIR CAMPER (two words) for the real McCoy. You asked..................... Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Yeah, but Doug.... If you're talking about 1020 steel rods with two tie rod ends at 10 bucks each, arent you still pretty much in the same ball park dolar-wise with one strand of steel cable and a 16.00 turnbuckle. Just asking...... Also how hard is it to thread these things. I've never tried to thread rod before. I know cable is easy to rig. Just asking. Thanks, Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > > I used 4 bays in each wing of 3/16 1020,fabed up angled fittings for > adjustment.Turn buckles deadly $. > Doug > > > ---------- > > From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 7:27 PM > > > > > > Tim, What about cables with turnbuckles? I would guess that the > > drag/antidrag forces in the wing would be well under the tensil strengths > of > > say 1/8 th inch cables. Of Course you have to deal with buying several > > turnbuckles, huh? Wonder how the tensil capacities for cable stack up > > against that of threaded rod? Hmmm. might have to check on this more. > > > > What about it? any of you out there got an opinion? > > > > I'm not an A>) > > Thanks, Bert > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:07 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 stock > > and > > > a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel > the > > > wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good > > luck. > > > Copinfo(at)home.com > > > Tim Cunningham > > > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > > > > Yall: > > > > > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am > building > > > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > > > IHA #6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
What you do is make long steel rods, threaded on the ends that pass diagonally through the spars at the compression struts. On the forward side of the forward spar and the rear side of the rear spar you glue and screw on trapezoidal shaped blocks of wood. The hole, and threaded rod, go through these blocks as well as the spars. The rods cross inside the spar and block, being offset slightly one above the other and come out of the wood on the angled ends of the blocks. On the outside of the blocks of wood you put a washer and Niloc nut on each end of the rods. By adjusting the nuts you take up the slack in the rod. Checking the alignment of the wing (trammelling is taking diagonal measurements) you increase the tension in the rods until you feel that the wing is secure against drag and antidrag forces (doesn't take much). Using threaded rods does away with the need for turnbuckles. The ends of the trapezoidal blocks are angled so that the surface is 90 degrees to the angle of the drag rod, giving a proper surface for the washers and nuts to land on. Over all, a very simple, effective and inexpensive structural scheme. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Date: Jan 01, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
1020 mild steel rod is VERY easy thread. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 pictures.
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Larry, I agree with you 100%.. I am 4 1/2 years into building a GN-1. The plans are garbage. Many, many mistakes in dimensions. Some drawings are to scale, some arent. No real organization to the plans. Pitiful material list. Somehow Grega just jumped in on Pietenpol's design and "improved it" It doesn't really matter now. I've been intimately involved of course with my project and with other Piet projects over the last several years. Mr. Piet built "original" (or did he?- look at the old WWI designs - wood- fabric- cables- skids) and light. Mr. Grega put forth a set of "plans" to adapt the design to utilize parts that in 1960's were as readily available as used 486 Pentiums are now. I agree with you. Lets keep from confusing the two designs. But I try not to be too class-conscious. We can encourage Newbies to build "original". I DO - And I can. But lets remember, people wil ferrete out those $25.00 plans in lieu of $100 plans from Pietenpol. thats a fact of life I did it. Wish I hadn't. But still, to build and fly a homebuilt is the true goal here- regardless of whether it's original, plagiarized, or whatever. Besides, today was a BEAUTIFUL day in south Georgia/North Florida..... and I got to fly a Piet for the second day in a row! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a great Sunday everybody! Bert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence V Williams" <lnawms(at)juno.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 pictures. > > > writes: > > > > > >just curious, > >I assume that someone took the pietenpol and made > >enough changes to rename it a GN 1. what are those > >changes or how is it different? > >thanks, del > > > >Del > > John Grega and his thinly disguised attempt to plagarize the > tried-and-true Pietenpol Air Camper is just another fascinating footnote > in homebuilt history. His intentions were probably well-founded but using > the Air Camper's highly recognized outlines and having the audacity to > call it an "Aircamper" seem a little underhanded and dishonest to most of > us in the Pietenpol camp. > > He basically beefed up an airplane that didn't need beefing up in the > first place, devised a way to scavenge parts of a junked Cub to complete > it, slapped the name Aircamper on the resulting craft, and started > selling plans. (Oh, OK there was a little more to it than that, but > that's the bottom line.) > > I have spoken to several people who have bought plans from the classified > section in Sport Aviation believing them to be Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper > plans only to find out that they had been misled by the bold lettered > "Aircamper" ad. One man had alreay started some initial construction > before he found out his mistake. > > John Grega and his airplane have scores of adherents who are completely > satisfied with their airplanes, but PLEASE.......it's a GN-1 and has > nothing to do with Mr. Pietenpol or his wonderful old design. > > Look for the Pietenpol AIR CAMPER (two words) for the real McCoy. > > You asked..................... > > Larry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Subject: model A torque specs
Hello, Does anyone have any torque specs on the model A? Thank you Mike Johnston Plainview Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Drag/Antidrag wires-Photos
Date: Jan 02, 2000
I put some photos on my site showing an Aeronca Chief wing I'm working on. Notice all the drag rods (Wire) are threaded on both ends. They're made of 1020 Mild Steel. Some bays use clevis tie rod ends and some go through the spar and use an aluminum block to straighten out the compression angle. A block of wood will do the trick too. No turnbuckles, but you can use them if you want the extra weight and expense. I hope this helps out. Check out http://members.home.net/copinfo/drag1.jpg http://members.home.net/copinfo/drag2.jpg http://members.home.net/copinfo/drag3.jpg http://members.home.net/copinfo/drag4.jpg http://members.home.net/copinfo/drag5.jpg Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: john hodnette <jhodnette(at)tecinfo.com>
Subject: Re: model A torque specs
I have a Model A restorers guide and a repair manual somewhere (after several moves). When I find the torque specs, I will send them along. john h. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Steve; 1020 is the type or alloy of the steel 3/16 being the diameter (.1875 thou). Lauren Williams described the install nicely. Doug Hunt..... ---------- > From: vistin(at)juno.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 8:13 PM > > > Could you go a little farther in your explaination? 3/16th what and 1020 > what. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Hi Bert; Did not use any tie rod ends.Read Lauren Williams post on the install details.Rods are simple to thread.I used 4 bays in each wing panel,not saying that is the way you should do it,but is the way i did. Doug Hunt ---------- > From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables??? > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 9:03 PM > > > Yeah, but Doug.... > > If you're talking about 1020 steel rods with two tie rod ends at 10 bucks > each, arent you still pretty much in the same ball park dolar-wise with one > strand of steel cable and a 16.00 turnbuckle. Just asking...... > Also how hard is it to thread these things. I've never tried to thread rod > before. I know cable is easy to rig. > > Just asking. > Thanks, Bert > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Subject: A coupla things
First, Mr. Grega started designing his airplane when you could get Cub parts reasonable priced. A lot like the Breezy and even the original Volmer Jensen Sportsman amphibian. Made construction a lot easier and quicker. Second, I owned a Buick Skylark, a Cessna Skylark and listened to the song Skylark. A name is a name...But they were all different. Third and most important: ALWAYS use the best materials possible, especially in the (closed) wing panels. If you opt for drag/anti drag wires, and you are going to make them yourself, find a machine shop that will ROLL the threads for you. Cutting threads makes the rods weaker at the thread points. Rolling actually makes them stronger. Don't believe me? Ask Piper, Pitts, Aeronca or any other ragbag manufacturer. Several of the suppliers will custom make the proper length wires for you. How much is your gluteus Maximus worth? Thoughts of an OF in a new year but not yet in a new millineum ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: hummel bird
just wondering.... anyone know anything about Hummel Birds? they look like fun........i just might have to build one. _danbadger Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wayne" <sippola(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Well now here is an idea I'm definatly using. Got any nice ideas for the tail braces? I was planning some homebuilt brackets and nuts to reduce the number of turnbuckles required. As far as the cut threads versus the rolled threads, I have no doubt the 3/16 is far greater than required for the actual stress involved and will cut them myself. Unless someone can tell me how to build a thread rolling mill??? Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg ---------- > From: Lauren Williams <LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > Date: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:52 PM > Williams) > > What you do is make long steel rods, threaded on the ends that pass > diagonally through the spars at the compression struts. On the forward > side of the forward spar and the rear side of the rear spar you glue and snip excellent method ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: hummel bird
Date: Jan 02, 2000
I know two people who started projects, one of which is starting his 2nd. walt evans -----Original Message----- From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com> Date: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hummel bird > >just wondering.... anyone know anything about Hummel >Birds? they look like fun........i just might have to >build one. >_danbadger > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Subject: Re: model A torque specs
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
> >Hello, >Does anyone have any torque specs on the model A? >Thank you >Mike Johnston >Plainview Minnesota > Mike Head bolts: 30 lbs, then 40 lbs, then 50 lbs in a spiral pattern from the center. After the engine is run and still warm, torque again to 50 lbs. Manifold: 50 lbs. No torques specified for the oil pan or side cover. I thought I could lay my hands on the internal specs (mains and rods) but can't at the moment. Hope this helps a little! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Information for Pietenpol registration list
Date: Jan 02, 2000
This is a test to see if my HTML problem is now solved allowing me to communicate on the Pietenpol list. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Request for information for Pietenpol owner listing
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Didja ever wish that you knew where some of the flying Pietenpols are located and who owns them? In July of 1999, just before the Piet fly-in at Brodhead and the Piet fly-in at EAA AirVenture '99 at Oshkosh, I put together a little catalog listing Pietenpol tail numbers and owner names and addresses. It numbered some 30 pages. I handed out a number of them at Brodhead and at Oshkosh. I plan to update it once a year, and that time is here. The information is the best I can garner, and covers only those Piets flying and registered with the FAA. I am sure that there are still a few out there that I have missed, and would appreciate any information you have on such airplanes. The newest issue now going together lists some 396 U. S. Piets, including 24 Scouts and 50 GN-1s. The year of manufacture, the builder's name, the engine installed, and the present owner's name and address are all included where the information is available. There are 49 Canadian entries, and 30 entries from the U.K. Right now, I need information from any of you who know of flying Piets. Please Email me direct, keeping the Matronics list clear. A typical listing goes like this: N135SM Steven Miller RD3 S Main Street Ext C-85 GN-1 86 Jamestown NY 14701 (Miller 86) This translates out to show that Steve's airplane was built in 1986 by "Miller" and that it is a GN-1. It has a Cont 85 engine and was last registered with the FAA in 1986. In the future, the listing may include a phone number and Email address where these are known. I do not want to hold up publication while I get every bit of information (it would never get published.) I will go with what I have and future issues will get updated. The "Pietenpol Registration List" can only be as good as the information I receive. However, we have an excellent base already with nearly 400 U.S. Piets on file. Those who received the intial issue in August were quite pleased. The pamphlet is not glossy. It is over 40 pages of 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 and costs over 60 cents to mail. I plan to get it into print in during January, and it will be available to anyone for a contribution of $4 postpaid. Doc Mosher 1071 Meadow Lane Neenah WI 54956 (920) 727-1534 docshop(at)famvid.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: hummel bird
Date: Jan 02, 2000
i have a set of plans. it is an interesting design but a wee bit small for my girth, etc at 220 lbs. ---Mike >From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: hummel bird >Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:47:06 -0800 (PST) > > > >just wondering.... anyone know anything about Hummel >Birds? they look like fun........i just might have to >build one. >_danbadger > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FordPiet(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Subject: Re: model A torque specs
Mike, Bratton's Antique Auto has a good Model A Catalog that has the torgue info on the page before page 1. You can request a free copy at http://www.brattons.com/ they are highly recommended from the Model A folks along with some other suppliers. His catalog agrees with Larry and adds: Main bearing cap bolts 70-80 Camshaft Nut 100 Connecting rods 45 Waterneck (torque with caution) 50 Water inlet 40 Timing cover 25 Oil pan 15-25 Valve cover 15-25 Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. Hap (as soon as I get caught up I plan to start on a Ford powered piet in Shreveport/Bossier LA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Subject: Re: hummel bird
How much do you want for them. writes: > > > i have a set of plans. it is an interesting design but a wee bit > small for > my girth, etc at 220 lbs. ---Mike > > > >From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: hummel bird > >Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:47:06 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > >just wondering.... anyone know anything about Hummel > >Birds? they look like fun........i just might have to > >build one. > >_danbadger > > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Need weight and balance data for Scout.
Date: Jan 02, 2000
Hi Bert! After you guys get Larry's Scout up & running, how about some info on the the engine conversion?? Is it still the Ponitac 2.5L "Iron Duke"? Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Need weight and balance data for Scout. > > Hello and happy new millenneum to all. > > We're finishing the W&B for Larry Harrison's Chrysler-powered Scout. > > Do you guys know any W&B numbers for any flying Scouts? Or who to call to > ask. The 4 cyl Chrysler engine weighs in at 244 lbs so seems to fit pretty > closely to the A-model (or so I'm told, aint never tried to pick one up...). > > It's 99% complete and waiting on Mr. FAA to AOK. I'll let you guys know how > it flies. > > By the way, I got to fly Poplar Piet today. WOWWWW! What a blast. With > the exception of my sloppy, 4 foot bounce upon landing (I did gather it up > and managed to recover into a decent landing) it was more fun than I > imagined. For all you guys building or thinking of it. > > YES! It IS as much fun as you think it will be! > > Anyway back to the Scout, thanks in advance for any weight and balance info. > I promise to try to get some pictures up on my site by Sunday if possible > > Happy new Year, > Bert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AirCamper.org
Ted, If you can saver it, Thanks from all of us. Happy new Year (I am late in reading posts, today is Jan 2:-) Saludos Gary Gower --- Ted Brousseau wrote: > Brousseau" > > Richard, > > How much room did the web site occupy? > > Ted Brousseau > Naples, FL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ADonJr(at)aol.com> > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 4:45 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AirCamper.org > > > ADonJr(at)aol.com > > > > Richard, > > Let me add my expression of appreciation and > regret over the demise of > your > > site. It served as an inspiration to many of us, > and it will be greatly > > missed. Best of the new year to you and yours. > > Don Cooley > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Keeping Piet outside.
Steve, I can Understand your feelings, I am sure you didnt had a good night all that year... Saludos Gary Gower --- Steve Eldredge wrote: > > > I kept mine outside for a year before I could find a > hanger for it. I > fabricated cockpit covers that fit tight. I also > covered the engine and prop > the best I could with a tarp bungeed down. Also a > good idea to lock the > controls with the seat belt and gust lock the > rudder. I made sure that I > went out during heavy snows and swept the wing > clean. Glad those days are > over and I now have my own roof to keep most of the > weather out. Sometime > you do what you have to do, but if you have the > choice keep it under cover. > > Steve E. > NX7229R > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On > Behalf Of Michael > Brusilow > Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 10:22 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Keeping Piet outside. > > > Brusilow" > > > > vistin(at)juno.com > > > >I am interested in how many of you keep your > Piets/GN-1s outside and what > >did you do to preserve your planes. I remember > someone said they had > >there Piet tied down outside for a year or so. > > > >Steve > > > >Steve W GN-1 builder > >IHA #6 > > > > Keeping a wood & fabric airplane outside aint good. > > Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A coupla things
The important part is the fun.. I own a Yamaha Star V 650 cc. black and chrome (lots of it). The Star V is a Harley Davidson look alike. it cost at least half the price. I enjoy it because I cant afford the "real thing". 7.000 vs 24,000 Dls here for a new one of each. By the way the Yamaha has better R&D and handles nicer, (HD riders say so) I go out with HD riders in non flying weekends and we all have fun. I also own a new real Enfield bullet 350 for every day riding Saludos Gary Gower Love planes and motorcycles. --- Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote: > > First, Mr. Grega started designing his airplane when > you could get Cub parts > reasonable priced. A lot like the Breezy and even > the original Volmer Jensen > Sportsman amphibian. Made construction a lot easier > and quicker. > > Second, I owned a Buick Skylark, a Cessna Skylark > and listened to the song > Skylark. A name is a name...But they were all > different. > > Third and most important: ALWAYS use the best > materials possible, especially > in the (closed) wing panels. If you opt for > drag/anti drag wires, and you > are going to make them yourself, find a machine shop > that will ROLL the > threads for you. Cutting threads makes the rods > weaker at the thread points. > Rolling actually makes them stronger. Don't > believe me? Ask Piper, Pitts, > Aeronca or any other ragbag manufacturer. Several > of the suppliers will > custom make the proper length wires for you. How > much is your gluteus > Maximus worth? > > Thoughts of an OF in a new year but not yet in a new > millineum > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fabric paint
Mi personal opinion: With all the work (and money) investd in the project. Why not finish it with a good covering? Is what people, friends and wife relatives :-( are going to see... Good finish will make you more proud. Well, just mi tought Saludos Gary Gower --- oil can wrote: > > > I have heard of using house paint, but my project > will probably live > outside... > > Other paints on my mind are the use of blue river > thru the silver coat, then > a polyurathane auto paint w/a flex agent. > I know little about this, and have just read about > it recently. > A guy used it to paint his d-17. > > The other is auto paint with a black under coat. > Steve e from utah.......I > think used it on his piet a couple years ago, and > the finish should be > prooving itself by now... > > If any guys have any Ideas, I wouldn't mind hearing > about them. > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2000
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: remove me from list
The instructions are in the bottom of every e-mail, just follow the instructions "When everything fails, read the manual" --- mark mastrangelo wrote: > mastrangelo > > ============================================================ > > please stop sending me piet mail, i have found > what > i was looking for and now need to stop the mail > > thanks markmastra(at)yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Drag/Anti drag wires
Another suggestion, taken from the up-dated Corbin plans (by Paul Poberezny) :: Use cable with hardware store eye bolts. (I don't know if I like tat one) The eye is welded to form a complete circle, then placed threw the spar with hard wood blocks as described by Lauren. Nuts on the threaded shank are tightened for trammelling and tensioning of cables. Someone stated "Hope Y2K bug got stomped" Naw, we got stomped. The FAA (to name just one govt. quick sand pit) spent 465 million bucks of our tax dollars to fix this problem. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: model A torque specs
Thanks Hap ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Information for Pietenpol registration list
Gotcha Doc, loud & clear....Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
airsoob(at)lists.kz, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Teeny II plans.
Does anyone have a set of "Teeny 2 plans around they will sell cheap? I had a set and somebody wanted them more than I did. In other words someone took them home. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
That's exactly what I'm using in my Christavia. Ken On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Conoly wrote: > > Tim, What about cables with turnbuckles? I would guess that the > drag/antidrag forces in the wing would be well under the tensil strengths of > say 1/8 th inch cables. Of Course you have to deal with buying several > turnbuckles, huh? Wonder how the tensil capacities for cable stack up > against that of threaded rod? Hmmm. might have to check on this more. > > What about it? any of you out there got an opinion? > > I'm not an A>) > Thanks, Bert > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > Steve, the easiest thing to do for drag wires is to get some 5/32 stock > and > > a die and make your own. I thread mine 6/40. Don't forget to trammel the > > wing. Most harware stores and some lumber yards have the stock. Good > luck. > > Copinfo(at)home.com > > Tim Cunningham > > Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > Yall: > > > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > > IHA #6 > > > > > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
please atke me of of your mailing lists , i have no idea whaT THIS IS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Star449190(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
take me off of your mailing list i didn't sign up for anything ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. Greg Cardinal. Yall: I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Same here, I used the 7x19 galvanized cabled. The Canadian Tire chain carries the cable. I found it there one day labled as "aircraft cable". Of course, I assumed that it was similar to aircraft cable until I moved the spool so I could read the end of it. Sure enough, it's the same stuff I had spent twice as much for from ASS. Gotta love the good ol' Canadian Tire store. Ken. On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Greg Cardinal wrote: > > I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. > > Greg Cardinal. > > Yall: > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 04, 2000
As a point of reference, the Fly Baby uses 1/8" 1 x 19 SS cable for the drag/antidrag. Also, the old T-craft uses hard wire for the tail bracing -- #8-36?? -- the tail attach brackets are made of 3/4 x .062 strap, a piece of 5/8 " steel 1/2 rd., & (I think -- my research is still in process -- I need to visit a couple "Hog" shops! ;-) the spoke nipples from a "pan-head" Harley. Definitely, get your threads rolled -- this could probably be done by an understanding cycle shop in thier spoke machine?! Mike C. PP,KS ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. > > Greg Cardinal. > > Yall: > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Ken Try TSC next time....$0.68/ meter for the 7/19. Beats the #$% out of the $5-$7/ foot some canadian aviation outlets (we wont mention Leavens ;-) charge. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > >Same here, I used the 7x19 galvanized cabled. The Canadian Tire chain >carries the cable. I found it there one day labled as "aircraft cable". Of >course, I assumed that it was similar to aircraft cable until I moved the >spool so I could read the end of it. Sure enough, it's the same stuff I >had spent twice as much for from ASS. Gotta love the good ol' Canadian >Tire store. > >Ken. > >On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Greg Cardinal wrote: > >> >> I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. >> >> Greg Cardinal. >> >> Yall: >> >> I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building >> the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. >> >> Steve >> >> Steve W GN-1 builder >> IHA #6 >> >> >> >> >> > >Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) >Calgary, Alberta, Canada >Christavia MK 1 C-GREN ><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I understand that the weak link with cables/turnbuckles is actually the turnbuckle, not the cable. In other words, whether you use 1x19 or 7x19 is really a mute point. Granted, 1x19 is stronger, but harder to work with (less flexible). There was also a Safety Bulletin SB 81-3 on Ron Wanttaja web page about concerns as to whether the 1/8" turnbuckles were strong enough. I followed through the stress analysis and the numbers seamed to be out and it looked as though they used lift loads rather than drag loads to calculate the required cable strength (approximately, a factor of 10 difference). However, on closer inspection, it seems that the lift cables angle forward and cause an additional forward stress. <http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/sb81-3.html> has more details. Later, Ken On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Michael Conkling wrote: > > As a point of reference, the Fly Baby uses 1/8" 1 x 19 SS cable for the > drag/antidrag. > > Also, the old T-craft uses hard wire for the tail bracing -- #8-36?? -- the > tail attach brackets are made of 3/4 x .062 strap, a piece of 5/8 " steel > 1/2 rd., & (I think -- my research is still in process -- I need to visit a > couple "Hog" shops! ;-) the spoke nipples from a "pan-head" Harley. > Definitely, get your threads rolled -- this could probably be done by an > understanding cycle shop in thier spoke machine?! > > Mike C. > PP,KS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > > > I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. > > > > Greg Cardinal. > > > > Yall: > > > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am building > > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > > > Steve > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder > > IHA #6 > > > > > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Mike, Who is TSC? Do they sell other aircraft parts? The Canadian Tire prices I paid are in line with the $0.68/ meter for the 7/19. Of course, there is no airworthiness paperwork with Canadian Tire ;-) Ken On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Mike Lund wrote: > > Ken > > Try TSC next time....$0.68/ meter for the 7/19. Beats the #$% out of the > $5-$7/ foot some canadian aviation outlets (we wont mention Leavens ;-) > charge. > > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > > > > > >Same here, I used the 7x19 galvanized cabled. The Canadian Tire chain > >carries the cable. I found it there one day labled as "aircraft cable". Of > >course, I assumed that it was similar to aircraft cable until I moved the > >spool so I could read the end of it. Sure enough, it's the same stuff I > >had spent twice as much for from ASS. Gotta love the good ol' Canadian > >Tire store. > > > >Ken. > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
What did you use at the ends of your cable! Steve writes: > > > I used 1/8" 7X19 galvanized cabled. > > Greg Cardinal. > > Yall: > > I am interested in what yall used for antidrag/drag wires! I am > building > the GN-1 and am kinda wondering bout this when I get to that stage. > > Steve > > Steve W GN-1 builder > IHA #6 > > > > > Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: testing
what would be a good way of testing the drag wires versus cable. making a fixture that uses two thick bars with a 1/8 inch hole in each bar to put a short piece of cable or wire with nuts. and then spreading the bars with a hydraulic jack and pressure guage or indicator to measure how much they stretch before they break. any other ideas? you could test with rolled threads versus cut etc. another test that would give me piece of mind is spar strength, especially where the scarf joint is. could I take a 1 ft piece of spar and also make a sample joint and put them in a hydraulic press and see at what point they break? del Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hummel bird
could you give me their e-mail adresses/phone #s so that i can contact them and find their opinions on it. _danbadger --- walter evans wrote: > > > I know two people who started projects, one of which > is starting his 2nd. > walt evans > -----Original Message----- > From: robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Sunday, January 02, 2000 3:57 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: hummel bird > > > goodfellow > > > > >just wondering.... anyone know anything about > Hummel > >Birds? they look like fun........i just might have > to > >build one. > >_danbadger > > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > Settlement... > http://www.matronics.com/jpi.html > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Cable looped around an AN100 thimble, secured with an 18-3-M Nicopress sleeve. Attached with an AN115 shackle on one end and a -22 (2200 pound) turnbuckle assembly on the other end. A related note to keep in mind when ordering turnbuckle assemblies: The cable eye should be on the LEFT hand threaded side of the turnbuckle. Why? Because aircraft cable is wound to the right and has a tendency to unravel to the left when in tension. The left hand threaded cable eye will then be turning in the direction that will tighten the fitting. It is not always possible to do this but should be done whenever able and noted in your building log. The inspector will be impressed. Greg Cardinal >>> 01/04 1:12 PM >>> What did you use at the ends of your cable! Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 04, 2000
I would think that proper safety wiring would make this a moot point. Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > >Cable looped around an AN100 thimble, secured with an 18-3-M >Nicopress sleeve. Attached with an AN115 shackle on one end >and a -22 (2200 pound) turnbuckle assembly on the other end. > >A related note to keep in mind when ordering turnbuckle assemblies: >The cable eye should be on the LEFT hand threaded side of the turnbuckle. Why? Because aircraft cable is wound to the right and has a tendency to unravel to the left when in tension. The left hand threaded cable eye will then be turning in the direction that will tighten the fitting. It is not always possible to do this but should be done whenever able and noted in your building log. The inspector will be impressed. > >Greg Cardinal > >>>> 01/04 1:12 PM >>> > >What did you use at the ends of your cable! > >Steve > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Greg thanks for your interesting comment on cable unraveling under tension and loosening the turnbuckle eye, however, I was wondering how much force this untwisting of the cable would apply and if a properly saftied turnbuckle wouldn't prevent this. Comment ? Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Better still, you could use the turnbuckles that employ the clips rather than the safety wire. They are no more expensive than the safety wire ones but will save you a lot of #*&@! With the pins, there shouldn't be any loosening or tightening of the turnbuckle. Ken On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Greg Cardinal wrote: > > Cable looped around an AN100 thimble, secured with an 18-3-M > Nicopress sleeve. Attached with an AN115 shackle on one end > and a -22 (2200 pound) turnbuckle assembly on the other end. > > A related note to keep in mind when ordering turnbuckle assemblies: The > cable eye should be on the LEFT hand threaded side of the turnbuckle. > Why? Because aircraft cable is wound to the right and has a tendency to > unravel to the left when in tension. The left hand threaded cable eye > will then be turning in the direction that will tighten the fitting. It > is not always possible to do this but should be done whenever able and > noted in your building log. The inspector will be impressed. > > Greg Cardinal > > >>> 01/04 1:12 PM >>> > > What did you use at the ends of your cable! > > Steve > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2000
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: engine instruments
do most of you guys out there use aircraft engine instruments or do you go to the automotive store and get the 3 (oil pressure, temp, and ammeter) for 29.95? del Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vernon Hoppes" <nc8607k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: engine instruments
Date: Jan 04, 2000
I would not use the 29.95 set of guages, but I would have no problem using a better quality unit. SW makes some very reliable gauges for automotive and merine, thay also manufacture aircraft gauges. >From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: piet aircamper >Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine instruments >Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:56:18 -0800 (PST) > > >do most of you guys out there use aircraft engine >instruments or do you go to the automotive store and >get the 3 (oil pressure, temp, and ammeter) for 29.95? >del > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
You are correct Cy, however, when bolts are installed it is considered "best practice" to install the bolt heads forward or up in case the nut comes off. Properly installed cotter pins make this point moot also. Installing turnbuckle assemblies with the cable on the left hand thread side whenever possible falls under the same "best practice" procedure. Greg Cardinal >>> "Cy Galley" 01/04 5:11 PM >>> I would think that proper safety wiring would make this a moot point. > >Cable looped around an AN100 thimble, secured with an 18-3-M >Nicopress sleeve. Attached with an AN115 shackle on one end >and a -22 (2200 pound) turnbuckle assembly on the other end. > >A related note to keep in mind when ordering turnbuckle assemblies: >The cable eye should be on the LEFT hand threaded side of the turnbuckle. Why? Because aircraft cable is wound to the right and has a tendency to unravel to the left when in tension. The left hand threaded cable eye will then be turning in the direction that will tighten the fitting. It is not always possible to do this but should be done whenever able and noted in your building log. The inspector will be impressed. > >Greg Cardinal > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lining-up rudder hinges
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Gang Here's a for-what-it's worth tip that I stumbled upon after drilling the holes for my rudder hinges, Maybe some of you've heard this before, but I bet a lot of newbies like me haven't. I had just completed drilling out the three sets of holes in my rudder main beam for my Vi Kapler hinges and wanted to see how good a job I had done of measuring and spotting my holes. I got my screws, and just used them to hold the hinge halves in place, (pre-mortising), so that I could boresight through them to see how they looked. I had been very concerned about being able to install all three hinges without them binding due to inaccurate placement. They looked pretty good but then a simple solution occurred to me: If you took a metal rod the same diameter as the clevis pins, and about 3' long or so, then slid the hinges along that you could get all three hinges placed to where all their hinge axes were perfectly aligned. Just measure the top and bottom of the rod laterally, and position each hinge vertically, and you could get easy, no-bind hinge placement! Now that I figured that out, I'll actually try it on my elevator hinges. Gary Meadows ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Gary, Bravo! That is a perfect example of what a site like this is for. In this case , you can't just line up the hinge edges because of variations in the hinges. Must have had your thinking cap on. walt evans -----Original Message----- From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lining-up rudder hinges > >Gang > > Here's a for-what-it's worth tip that I stumbled upon after drilling the >holes for my rudder hinges, Maybe some of you've heard this before, but I >bet a lot of newbies like me haven't. > > I had just completed drilling out the three sets of holes in my rudder >main beam for my Vi Kapler hinges and wanted to see how good a job I had >done of measuring and spotting my holes. I got my screws, and just used >them to hold the hinge halves in place, (pre-mortising), so that I could >boresight through them to see how they looked. I had been very concerned >about being able to install all three hinges without them binding due to >inaccurate placement. They looked pretty good but then a simple solution >occurred to me: > > If you took a metal rod the same diameter as the clevis pins, and about 3' >long or so, then slid the hinges along that you could get all three hinges >placed to where all their hinge axes were perfectly aligned. Just measure >the top and bottom of the rod laterally, and position each hinge vertically, >and you could get easy, no-bind hinge placement! > > Now that I figured that out, I'll actually try it on my elevator hinges. > >Gary Meadows > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Neat simple solution Gary! I concur with Walter, this is why I'm still here on this list. it helps. Thanks John Mc -----Original Message----- From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lining-up rudder hinges > >Gary, > Bravo! That is a perfect example of what a site like this is for. In >this case , you can't just line up the hinge edges because of variations in >the hinges. Must have had your thinking cap on. >walt evans >-----Original Message----- >From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:23 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lining-up rudder hinges > > > >> >>Gang >> >> Here's a for-what-it's worth tip that I stumbled upon after drilling the >>holes for my rudder hinges, Maybe some of you've heard this before, but I >>bet a lot of newbies like me haven't. >> >> I had just completed drilling out the three sets of holes in my rudder >>main beam for my Vi Kapler hinges and wanted to see how good a job I had >>done of measuring and spotting my holes. I got my screws, and just used >>them to hold the hinge halves in place, (pre-mortising), so that I could >>boresight through them to see how they looked. I had been very concerned >>about being able to install all three hinges without them binding due to >>inaccurate placement. They looked pretty good but then a simple solution >>occurred to me: >> >> If you took a metal rod the same diameter as the clevis pins, and about >3' >>long or so, then slid the hinges along that you could get all three hinges >>placed to where all their hinge axes were perfectly aligned. Just measure >>the top and bottom of the rod laterally, and position each hinge >vertically, >>and you could get easy, no-bind hinge placement! >> >> Now that I figured that out, I'll actually try it on my elevator hinges. >> >>Gary Meadows >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Die Springs
If you are using die springs on the Gear, what brand are you using and what color? Danley or Continental? Blue, Red, Gold or Green? A 6 inch by 2 inch Gold Spring is good for only 1.2 inches of travel, with a load of 832 pounds per inch of travel. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2000
From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Die Springs
Hi- In the 6th issue of the BPA Newsletter, 4th Quarter 1984, Sy Debolt showed a die spring design which recommended a Lamina brand H-56 spring. It is colored gold (didn't realize there was a standard color code), and is described as the Heavy Duty spring. Specs on it are 1.8 inches at 1051#, and 1.2 inches at 700#. Remember that the load is doubled because there are 2 springs to a gear. This is what I am going to use. Al Swanson > >If you are using die springs on the Gear, what brand are you using and what >color? Danley or Continental? Blue, Red, Gold or Green? A 6 inch by 2 inch >Gold Spring is good for only 1.2 inches of travel, with a load of 832 pounds >per inch of travel. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Subject: Re: Die Springs
Sounds like the same springs that i use except i get different rates. Gold springs are rated for an effective range of 15 to 20%...........1.2 inches of travel, max rate (before coil bind) 30%........1.8 inches of travel. but i come up with 83.2 pounds per 1/10 of an inch of travel....832 pounds per inch of travel. This is on continental die springs, Danley are close to the same. Yes Die Springs are color coded. Thanks for the info I Will look in the Lamina Book tomorrow. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck??
Date: Jan 05, 2000
Hello. I've a question. The rounded covering that covers your instrument panel. You know the ones that go up over and around the instrument panels and sweep backward along the longerons.... or are they considered cowlings??? Boy I should know this! Sorry for the stupid question. Anyway, I am ready to build. I have noticed some folks make these from sheet aluminium(ium). I've also seen 1/16 in plywood. They just glued fabric onto the ply andpainted it - looks fine. Does it really matter.?? That is is there a reason to need to be able to remove these things? I think the area behind the instrument panel(s) is accessable pretty easily by just removing the panel. I'll either screw my panels in or may even hinge the panels for access. If you use aluminum, do most people just screw the turtledeck-cowling-thingie into to longerons? It looks like several screw holes along each of the top longerons(esp near the cabane struts) could compromise the integrity of the longerons. I've been exxcrutiatingly careful not to put many holes in any of the structure. Anyway, just a question I've had on my mind for a while. Wood or aluminum??????????? I think wood! Thanks, Bert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck??
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > > >Hello. > >I've a question. The rounded covering that covers your instrument >panel. >You know the ones that go up over and around the instrument panels and >sweep >backward along the longerons.... or are they considered cowlings??? > >Boy I should know this! Sorry for the stupid question. Anyway, I am >ready >to build. I have noticed some folks make these from sheet >aluminium(ium). >I've also seen 1/16 in plywood. They just glued fabric onto the ply >andpainted it - looks fine. Does it really matter.?? That is is >there a >reason to need to be able to remove these things? I think the area >behind >the instrument panel(s) is accessable pretty easily by just removing >the >panel. I'll either screw my panels in or may even hinge the panels >for >access. > >If you use aluminum, do most people just screw the >turtledeck-cowling-thingie into to longerons? It looks like several >screw >holes along each of the top longerons(esp near the cabane struts) >could >compromise the integrity of the longerons. I've been exxcrutiatingly >careful not to put many holes in any of the structure. > >Anyway, just a question I've had on my mind for a while. Wood or >aluminum??????????? I think wood! > >Thanks, Bert Bert, They're called fairings and the aluminum vs. plywood choice is up to you. As for the screws going into the longerons, if you use the suggested #8-1/2" s.s. screws, by the time they penetrate the aluminum fairing, 1/4" wood fairing strip, and 1/8" ply fuse side, there isn't much screw left to stick into the longeron. I personally like the brightly painted aluminum fairings with their uniformly straight rows of shiney screw-heads marking the outlines. Looks like a REAL aeroplane! But, that's just me. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > >Gang > > Here's a for-what-it's worth tip that I stumbled upon after drilling >the >holes for my rudder hinges, Maybe some of you've heard this before, >but I >bet a lot of newbies like me haven't. > > I had just completed drilling out the three sets of holes in my >rudder >main beam for my Vi Kapler hinges and wanted to see how good a job I >had >done of measuring and spotting my holes. Gary, First of all; thanks for sending in a real-life tip and not some imagined problem/solution. Here's a tip back to you: Don't mount the bottom rudder hinge in the tailpost until you figure out how far the covering/paint will lift the stab/fin. I know it seems like a negligible amount but... be warned. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck??
Date: Jan 06, 2000
> > >Hello. > >I've a question. The rounded covering that covers your instrument panel. That is there a reason to need to be able to remove these things? I think the area behind >the instrument panel(s) is accessable pretty easily by just removing the >panel. > > >Thanks, Bert > Make the cowling removable. There is a lot of stuff behind the panel that you may need ready access to in the future. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck??
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Bert, I used aluminum and screwed the sides to the longerons with #6 screws. I'll put some pictures on my site later. I would do it different after seeing others. The leather wraped foam works good and looks good too. From the front cockpit I gain access to the back of my instruments through a hinged door. Smart move. I changed a few instruments and had to drain my airspeed tube a couple of times after flying through rain. I was suprised how many times I needed access to the rear of my panel and I highly recommend fabricating something to allow access. Copinfo(at)home.com Tim Cunningham Des Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510 > I've a question. The rounded covering that covers your instrument panel. I think the area behind the instrument panel(s) is accessable pretty easily by just removing the panel. I'll either screw my panels in or may even hinge the panels for access. > > Thanks, Bert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Larry, Thanks for the heads-up, I have already drilled the holes but not routed-out for the hinges. I guess I could plug the holes with dowels, and redrill, or adapt the tail-post hinge mount location to accomodate my lower rudder hinge location. While I have you, I had posed a question a while back as to why my vert. stab. came out too short to match the rudder. Mike Cuy said he saw this, and made up for it with the shaped block on the vert stab top. Could this small (5/8") shortfall be to help make room for the covering on the vstab, hstab, and fuse. Thanks for the info! Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: vistin(at)juno.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Wing attach points.
I am curious about the wing attach points/straps used on the Piets three piece wing configuration. Is the piece used aprox 12" long and uses three bolts through the front/rear spar? Or is it a plate type of mount. Is the spar reenforced with 1/16th ply or what. Steve Steve W GN-1 builder IHA #6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
writes: > > > > While I have you, I had posed a question a while back as to why my >vert. >stab. came out too short to match the rudder. Mike Cuy said he saw >this, and >made up for it with the shaped block on the vert stab top. Could this >small >(5/8") shortfall be to help make room for the covering on the vstab, >hstab, >and fuse. > > Thanks for the info! > >Gary Guess whose rudder hangs below the tailpost by 5/8"? Luckily, it isn't too noticable (unless you know about it) and the tailskid bracket sort of fairs it all in. I doubt if you could make up the 5/8" overhang with covering unless you're using REALLY heavy-duty fabric (like carnival tent canvas!!). Mike Cuys "fix" sounds good unless you want to build a shorter rudder or a longer fin. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lining-up rudder hinges
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Larry, Thanks much for the info! I feel a little better about my building now! I'll just "make it all fit", heck this isn't rocket science after all, is it! Thanks again Gary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2000
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: serial no 20
just came back from our local A&P. Here if he didn't have a pietenpol in for a new cover job. An original built by bernard himself. a "certified" plane with a serial no of 20. A three wing with a ford model B engine. Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: serial no 20
I'd love it if you could get and download a picture of no 20 Henry Williams ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck??
Bert, I suppose that ply or aluminum is mostly a matter of preference. I used aluminum because I want the ability of getting to everything inside { such as the cabane fittings). I do have an access panel that screws in behind the fron pit for access to the pilot's instruments. As for the nomenclature it has always been my understanding that the cowling is what covers an engine compartment. the fairings are those flat or shaped aluminum gap covers at wing/fuselage, wing/center section mating areas and , on real fancy stuff, where landing gear, wing struts and tailfeathers meet the fuselage, wings or wheel pants and that the portion you speak of just forward of and between the cockpits is the coaming. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DonanClara(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires-Cables???
you can unsubscribe yourself by using the address at the bottom http://www.matronics.com/subscribe. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2000
Subject: Re: Die Springs
I found the springs!!!!!!!! It would have helped if I payed attention.......1 1/2 X 6 inch springs not 2X6. Thanks for the help!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Aeronca discussion list , Christavia List
Subject: Neat tool
I got a neat tool for Christmas that I though I'd pass along. It's a small metal brake suitable for mild steel up to 1/8" thick (it will probably do 0.090" 4130) and 3" wide. Basically, it's designed to work in a bench vice and consists of 2 pieces, a V-block and a bar that work together to make bends to about 95 degrees. They will work in just about any vice as they have rare earth magnets to hold them in place. At less than $20 CAD, it's a great buy. Of course, it would have even been better it I had found it BEFORE finishing the metal work on this plane ;-) Anyway, it's available from Lee Valley Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
\"Ronen Yehiav\"" , "Ragwing" , "piet aircamper" , "Nieuport Builders" , "Hoverlovers" , "Fly Baby" , "Aircraft Builders Mailing List" , "5k"
Subject: Re: info
Date: Jan 07, 2000
For What??? Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact! (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com) -----Original Message----- From: Dubinger <dubinger(at)ccsalpha3.nrl.navy.mil> ; Ragwing ; piet aircamper ; Nieuport Builders ; Hoverlovers ; Fly Baby ; Aircraft Builders Mailing List ; 5k Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 9:44 AM Subject: info >I am looking for builder info. > >John Dubinger >dubinger(at)ccsalpha3.nrl.navy.mil >dubinger(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Method of getting phone calls while connected to the internet
Date: Jan 07, 2000
While not a Pietenpol item, this is for Piet internet list people. If you have only one phone line, you know that while you are on the internet with the other Piet list people, you have tied up your telephone line and can not get incoming calls and cannot call out. Through the wonders of technology, the cyber guys have managed a way around this. There is not a box that can, in effect, give you the use of that other phone line. I have installed it and it works fine. This is not an endorsement, just information. ComSwitch 3500 Command Communications, Inc. 10800 East Bethany Drive Aurora Colorado 80014 (303)751-7000 76735.3714compuserve.com I'm sure there must be other units like this, maybe even better or less expensive. But this is the one I know about. It was a Christmas present from my kids, so I don't know the price. I do know that Radio Shack does not carry this or anything like this. This box can save you from installing a second phone line at home, with its monthly charges. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Fw: Method of getting phone calls while connected to the
internet
Date: Jan 07, 2000
-----Original Message----- From: Doc Mosher <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com> Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 11:06 AM Subject: Method of getting phone calls while connected to the internet >While not a Pietenpol item, this is for Piet internet list people. > >If you have only one phone line, you know that while you are on the internet >with the other Piet list people, you have tied up your telephone line and >can no get incoming calls and cannot call out. > >Through the wonders of technology, the cyber guys have managed a way >around this. There is now a box that can, in effect, give you the use of >that other phone line. I have installed it and it works fine. This is not an >endorsement, just information. > ComSwitch 3500 >Command Communications, Inc. >10800 East Bethany Drive >Aurora Colorado 80014 >(303)751-7000 >76735.3714compuserve.com > >I'm sure there must be other units like this, maybe even better or less >expensive. But this is the one I know about. It was a Christmas present >from my kids, so I don't know the price. I do know that Radio Shack does >not carry this or anything like this. This box can save you from installing >a second phone line at home, with its monthly charges. > >Doc Mosher >Oshkosh USA > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Subject: EAA "Experimenter" magazine article about Pietenpols
Date: Jan 07, 2000
The January 2000 issue of "Experimenter" magazine, published by EAA, has an article by Bob Whittier on "Constructing a Pietenpol." This is in the "Light Plane Heritage" section of the magazine. Bob is a long time homebuilding guy and an excellent writer. He attended the Brodhead Fly-In this last summer and tipped his hand that he had several articles going together on Piets. The article has lots of pictures, and is the first of several. In fact, Bob says: "Next month's article will discuss flying the Pietenpol and will include a list of sources for plans and literature." If you do not subscribe to "Experimenter," E-mail them at experimenter(at)eaa.org to purchase a copy or to subscribe. Mary Jones, the editor, is a Piet aficionado, as is Norm Peterson, the guy you will usually get when you call EAA about a technical problem. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Borodent(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Neat tool
In a message dated 1/7/00 10:11:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca writes: << >> from talking to one of the LeeValley reps,( 1 800 871 8158) I believe that small brake is part 50K0801 on back order; price 10.95 (US$) plus 5.00 shipping, it can be ordered from Lee Valley Tools PO Box 1780 Ogeensburg NY 13669-6780 they also have a nice 5$ wood working catalog (refundable with first purchase) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chanter, Mike (M.F.)" <mchanter(at)jaguar.com>
Subject: EAA "Experimenter" magazine article about Pie
tenpols
Date: Jan 07, 2000
hey doc, thanks for 2 good notes in a row, both were very appealing , as i was just getting ready to add a line for my internet access, im callin them. btw, thanx again for your info on the guys with the lycoming - piets. I bought the engine on mon., a 145-b2, so now i gotta get the plans ! engine needs a complte rebuild, but it was complete to begin with, no missing goodies, even got the guy to deliver it thru a stroke of luck ! Mike Chanter Liaison Build & Development Resident JAGUAR AJ V6 ENGINE PROGRAMS POEE Bldg. - 21500 Oakwood Blvd. Dearborn, Michigan 48121 - 2053 Ph. - (313) 33 - 72889 Fax - (313) 39 - 09146 Beeper - (313) 795 - 7515 -----Original Message----- From: Doc Mosher [mailto:DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com] Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA "Experimenter" magazine article about Pietenpols The January 2000 issue of "Experimenter" magazine, published by EAA, has an article by Bob Whittier on "Constructing a Pietenpol." This is in the "Light Plane Heritage" section of the magazine. Bob is a long time homebuilding guy and an excellent writer. He attended the Brodhead Fly-In this last summer and tipped his hand that he had several articles going together on Piets. The article has lots of pictures, and is the first of several. In fact, Bob says: "Next month's article will discuss flying the Pietenpol and will include a list of sources for plans and literature." If you do not subscribe to "Experimenter," E-mail them at experimenter(at)eaa.org to purchase a copy or to subscribe. Mary Jones, the editor, is a Piet aficionado, as is Norm Peterson, the guy you will usually get when you call EAA about a technical problem. Doc Mosher Oshkosh USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2000
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Neat tool
I'm fortunate enough to have a Lee Valley right here in Calgary. I had seen the brake at the store and dropped a couple of hints to my wife. I'll dig the packaging out of the trash tonight and confirm it for ya but it certainly sounds right. BTW, if you like woodworking (who am I kidding, you're all building Piets) thier catalogue is as important as Wicks (or even ASS). The prices can be a little high on some things, but they carry one of the best selections of tools I've ever found. Oh yeah, thier stuff is definitely of high quality. Ken On Fri, 7 Jan 2000 Borodent(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/7/00 10:11:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, > kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca writes: > > << > >> > from talking to one of the LeeValley reps,( 1 800 871 8158) I believe that > small brake is part 50K0801 on back order; price 10.95 (US$) plus 5.00 > shipping, it can be ordered from > Lee Valley Tools > PO Box 1780 > Ogeensburg NY 13669-6780 > they also have a nice 5$ wood working catalog (refundable with first purchase) > > > > > Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace) Calgary, Alberta, Canada Christavia MK 1 C-GREN <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Gentlemen, 7x19 stretches and 1x19 does not. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Be aware that the Canadian tire cable does not have the cotton (red color) in the middle of the strands to wick the oil which preserves the true aircraft cable. Also they don't pay for the cable to be inspected. Basically you get what you pay for. Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Wing attach points.
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Steve, It's not a plate. Those would be far too heavy. According to my drawing they are 6", and there are 4 holes drilled 2X1/4, and 2X3/16ths. They are alternated with 1/4 at one end on a 1/2 radius ending with 3/16ths at the other end on a 1/2 radius. Space between the 1st and second hole is 1". Space between the second and third is 3 1/2"., then 1 1/2". Regards, Dom. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Date: Jan 07, 2000
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
7x19 and 7x7 (in the smaller sizes) are flexible wire rope, intended to be used around sheaves and thimbles. 1x19 is rigging wire for staying and is intended to be used in straight runs. It should be used with swaged end terminals and should not be wraped around a thimble, especially if it is stainless. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: Neat tool
Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for the rib gussets? I bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to work too well. Any suggestions? Thanks, Tom Travis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: Camera Man <seawolf80(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: Neat tool
Hello Travis I used an Arrow JT-21 Tacker that uses 1/4" 6mm staples. This is a hand powered stapler, not electric. I found that the regular stapler for paper is too light and that the larger electric staple guns split the wood, but the JT-21 is just right. Goldie Locks (Mike Madrid) http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Marina/7827/ > >Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for the rib gussets? I >bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to work too well. Any >suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > > Tom Travis > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: welding landing gear
Can anybody give me any suggestions on what kind of filler rod to use on 4130 chromoly if you are going to tig weld the landing gear? Thanks Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Neat tool
Date: Jan 08, 2000
> >Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for the rib gussets? I >bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to work too well. Any >suggestions? > Nails aint bad, they work good. Mike B Piet 687MB ( Mr Sam ) PS They don't split the wood. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Neat tool
make 3 jigs, once you get going you can glue up 6 sides at one time. put weight or light clamps on. no nails no staples to pull out. spread the project out while you work on the rest of the project. you don't get tired of it. del --- Michael Brusilow wrote: > Brusilow" > > > TomTravis(at)aol.com > > > >Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for > the rib gussets? I > >bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to > work too well. Any > >suggestions? > > > > > Nails aint bad, they work good. > > Mike B Piet 687MB ( Mr Sam ) > > PS They don't split the wood. > > > > through > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > Matronics! > > > > > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Neat tool
I used a regular office stapler, opened up and layed flat. easy to put staples in and easy to remove after glue sets up. no problem at all with alignment... after only a rib or two you can almost do it with your eyes closed.. make sure youe have a full box of staples as you'll use plenty, 3 to 4 on each gussett. regards JoeC Zion, Illinois TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote: > > Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for the rib gussets? I > bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to work too well. Any > suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > > Tom Travis > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2000
From: fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com>
Subject: DeCosta'sweb site
glad to see that Richard's web site is up and running again----nice to know that you can't keep a good site down.. regards JoeC Zion, Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
From: COZYPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Subject: Re: welding landing gear
Use 4130 wire........its available at all welding shops ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: welding landing gear
Date: Jan 08, 2000
Every reference I have read says to use mild steel rod. I'm not the expert, but if it were me, I would use a rod type made for welding muffler pipe. Mild steel rod, as it is less prone to cracks from vibration. Also 4130 steel is in a class known as air hardning, and mild steel filler rod is much less prone to harden (due to low carbon) and crack over time. Bob >From: RBush96589(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding landing gear >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 14:25:05 EST > > >Can anybody give me any suggestions on what kind of filler rod to use on >4130 >chromoly if you are going to tig weld the landing gear? > > Thanks > Robert Bush > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Re: Drag/Antidrag wires
Date: Jan 09, 2000
There was a good article in the Experimenter magazine a few years ago on aircraft cable.The colored strand is an identifier only,according to the story,mine happens to be yellow. Doug .. ---------- > From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag/Antidrag wires > Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 4:30 PM > > > Be aware that the Canadian tire cable does not have the cotton (red color) > in the middle of the strands to wick the oil which preserves the true > aircraft cable. Also they don't pay for the cable to be inspected. Basically > you get what you pay for. > > Dom. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2000
Subject: Re: Neat tool
From: John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com>
>Speaking of tools, what kind of stapler is best for the rib gussets? >bought an Arrow electric and it doesn't seem to work too well. Any >suggestions?


December 13, 1999 - January 09, 2000

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bk