Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bl
January 09, 2000 - January 30, 2000
When I did my ribs this last spring and summer I used T-88 glue and
stapled the gussets with a regular stationery stapler from my desk at
school. Once I forgot to bring it home and used our little swingline
from my desk at home. I even got it to work OK. I had started by
clamping the gussets, but that took too much time and could often get
kind of messy. I would mount all the pieces in the jig the night before
and make sure I had all the gussets I needed (about a 15-20 minute job),
then the next morning I would glue it up, along with the backside of the
one I had removed. That would take a total of about 40 minutes. Put the
glue on about half the joints of one rib,slap on the gussets, glue the
rest of the joints, lay on those gussets, then staple them all. I just
positioned the stapler carefully, then gave it a good rap. Worked slick
as could be. The staples leave very small holes. To remove staples, I
pried them up partially with an old 1/4" chisel, then pulled the rest of
the way with a needle nosed pliers. To remove staples took 6minutes per
rib. I was very pleased with the results.
John Fay in Peoria
jefay(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" , "5k"
Hey Guys
Does anybody have any experience with the Ariel Bipe conversion for the
Pietenpol?
I bought the plans for it when I built my first piet, but decided not to use
them. In the meantime I have heard a few rumors about extreme aft C of G
problems with the plane.
Now one of the guys at the field wants the drawings, but I dont want to sell
him something that doesnt al least have a chance of working.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Finally Back Online |
Hi Guys
After about 6 months of not being able to post (I didnt know about HTML
e-mail settings) I am finally back on the list.
The scout project I had on the go got sold last summer, and I have been
humming and hawing around looking for something to hang a soob on, and 3
days ago finally gave in to the urge to build a piet (again)
As of now I just pulled the 1st fuse half from the jig, and by next weekend
should have the second done.
This one is not a true piet OR a true GN-1 (sorry to the purists) but rather
a hybrid of the 2--plus scout gear--, with some construction methods from
the Bowers Flybaby and the VP-1 thrown in the mix.
Fuse is 3/4" square Ash with birch gussets and mahog skin (full lenght).
Wing is GN-1 airfoil with mahog/birch spars and router cut ply ribs. Tail is
straight piet (spruce). Main gear will be Sky Scout and engine is a Soob
EA-82 with a Jim Mylanta redrive and a chin-mount rad.
Not exactly following any of the plans, but it should keep it interesting
enough that I wont get bored with it.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
Subject: | 145-B2 was "EAA Experimenter |
How much did you have to pay for the 145-b2? I have a chance to buy one for
my Piet also.
Was trying to find a manual and overhaul info. The engine is complete but I
need specs for a complete check out.
Can anybody help.
Greg Yotz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Torque tube installation |
I'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to
realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper place
at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the torque
tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of the
torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about 2".
Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
problem.....
-Bill Beerman
Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot
1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-
fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.
Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Drag/Antidrag wires |
I have to differ with you here, Domenico, it certainly does. The part
number on the spools that they have are exactly the same as the spools
that Leavens had. Same MS number, same manufacturer and everything. I
doubt very much that CT would go through the trouble of changing the
lables on the spools when they are not even selling the stuff to the
aviation community. It's more likely that they buy the stuff by the ton
and get a huge discount. As for inspection, the manufacturer of things
like bolts, screws, cables, etc inspect by testing a sample of a given
lot. Since the manufacturer has no idea where thier cable will end up,
it's very unlikely that there are any different procedures for the stuff
that ends up at CT over the stuff that ends up on the shelf at Leavens.
Ken
On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
>
> Be aware that the Canadian tire cable does not have the cotton (red color)
> in the middle of the strands to wick the oil which preserves the true
> aircraft cable. Also they don't pay for the cable to be inspected. Basically
> you get what you pay for.
>
> Dom.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>I'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have
>come to
>realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper
>place
>at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the
>torque
>tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front
>of the
>torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than
>about 2".
Bill
I've looked at the plans as well as my control installation and can't
figure out how you came to the situation that you're in.
The only way I can see the run not being able to attach flat on the floor
is if your torque tube is hanging up on the bottom of the pie-shaped
cut-outs for the front seat. If that's the case, my suggestion would be
to open them up with a large rat-tail file until the torque tube can be
installed per the plans. Although I've mounted my torque tube on a 1/8"
ply pad on the front, there was clearance without it.
Very perplexing!!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to
be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts.
(I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have
to check to see if it's really that much). Nonetheless, it bothers me
that you've not encountered the same thing. I think I mentioned in my
first post that I'm 1/4 interest in the project. I'm doing the metalwork,
while a friend built the fuse. Maybe one of us missed something....
Are you building the long fuse Piet? My friend convinced me that no change
to the torque tube length was required due to the long vs. short fuse
change, but maybe that's not true. I'll have to double check. Thanks for
the input!
-Bill
>
> I've looked at the plans as well as my control installation and can't
> figure out how you came to the situation that you're in.
>
> The only way I can see the run not being able to attach flat on the floor
> is if your torque tube is hanging up on the bottom of the pie-shaped
> cut-outs for the front seat. If that's the case, my suggestion would be
> to open them up with a large rat-tail file until the torque tube can be
> installed per the plans. Although I've mounted my torque tube on a 1/8"
> ply pad on the front, there was clearance without it.
>
> Very perplexing!!
>
> Larry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Bill,
I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did
notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube
with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I
recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to
clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some
variations.
If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different
variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right down
to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.
There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg
the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat
plane.
Walt Evans
-----Original Message-----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
>
>I'm assembling control components into the long fuselage, and have come to
>realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper
place
>at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the
torque
>tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of
the
>torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than about
2".
>
>Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
>difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
>problem.....
>
>-Bill Beerman
> Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot
> 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-
> fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.
> Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Subject: | Wooden landing gear. |
How bout help with your wooden landing gear. I sure could use pictures
and explainations too.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
Thanks for the info on the welding rods. What about normalizing a tig weld?
Ihave read that some people say it should be done and others say that it
actually weakens the weld. Also can any one who has already built their
control systems give me a rough guess as to how much cable to buy?I think it
was Steve E. that said he used 1/8 7-7 stainless throughout his
plane,Ithought I would use the same.
Thanks
Robert Bush
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: welding&cables |
Their was discussion awhile back on stainless cable.
many guys agreed that stainless has a drawback in that
it gets brittle and breaks without warning. If you
notice one strand broke, the rest are ready to break.
whereas a galvanized cable will rust, and when it
starts to rust replace it. the rust is an indicator
that it is getting old.
--- RBush96589(at)aol.com wrote:
> RBush96589(at)aol.com
>
> Thanks for the info on the welding rods. What about
> normalizing a tig weld?
> Ihave read that some people say it should be done
> and others say that it
> actually weakens the weld. Also can any one who has
> already built their
> control systems give me a rough guess as to how much
> cable to buy?I think it
> was Steve E. that said he used 1/8 7-7 stainless
> throughout his
> plane,Ithought I would use the same.
>
> Thanks
>
> Robert Bush
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "wayne" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
----------
> From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
> Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 12:46 PM
>
>
>
> Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs to
> be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped cutouts.
> (I may have exaggerated a little about '2" above the floor'- I'll have
Both mine and my friends have the same problem. He mounted the front of
his torque tube on a block, I notched out the bottom of my V.
Wayne Sippola, Winterpeg
sippola(at)escape.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | normalizing tig welds |
The god's honest truth is...I don't know.
The fellows who tig weld , from what I hear, normalize their welds.
Tig is approved for a/c work, and I don't think that they normalize.
I read awhile back that the primary cause for weld failures in a/c are,
wrong filler rod,, not enough filler rod, and not normalizing welds after
welding.
A local "expert" claims that tig leaves a very narrow heat affected zone
next to the weld that is subject to failure from fatigue. He also said that
gas welding, because of it's wider heat zone does tend to self normalize.
As for myself, I am building an all steel tube frame airplane, and did use
gas to weld it with mild steel rod, and I did pre heat the weld zone before
I welded it, then slowly did remove the heat after welding to keep the welds
as soft as possible to keep any cracks out.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
>
>
>Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs
>to
>be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped
>cutouts.
>
My advice still stands..........break out the rat-tail file & make
sawdust until the torque tube can mount on the floor in front of the
front seat.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wooden landing gear. |
From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
>
>How bout help with your wooden landing gear. I sure could use
>pictures
>and explainations too.
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>Don't know beans about GN-1 landing gear but if you had a pietenpol I'd
suggest supplemental drawings available from Don Pietenpol.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Subject: | Re: welding&cables |
God, I hope not! ALL the cables in my 1948 Bellanca are original and
stainless. Have never had a problem. All the spokes on my Bicycle are
stainless and I have yet to break one in 12 years. Spokes are higher
stressed than your control cables. Why would rust tell you that a cable is
old? Some area of this country will rust a galvanized cable in months while
other places it might take a couple centuries.
ALL generalizations are FALSE including this one!
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding&cables
>
>Their was discussion awhile back on stainless cable.
>many guys agreed that stainless has a drawback in that
>it gets brittle and breaks without warning. If you
>notice one strand broke, the rest are ready to break.
>whereas a galvanized cable will rust, and when it
>starts to rust replace it. the rust is an indicator
>that it is getting old.
>
>--- RBush96589(at)aol.com wrote:
>> RBush96589(at)aol.com
>>
>> Thanks for the info on the welding rods. What about
>> normalizing a tig weld?
>> Ihave read that some people say it should be done
>> and others say that it
>> actually weakens the weld. Also can any one who has
>> already built their
>> control systems give me a rough guess as to how much
>> cable to buy?I think it
>> was Steve E. that said he used 1/8 7-7 stainless
>> throughout his
>> plane,Ithought I would use the same.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Robert Bush
>>
>>
>>
>> through
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>> Matronics!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: welding&cables |
Robert,
There was quite a discussion before on welding and whether TIG, MIG, or
acetylene was the best. Normalizing was also dicussed.
Heli-arc welding (TIG or MIG) is by far the best, but the equipment is
very expensive and far beyond the reach of most homebuilders. This is
the type of welding used by the various aircraft manufacturers in a
production line situation. The width of the weld is the same as in gas
welding and increased heat stress problems are not a factor. In fact,
the opposite is true. Heat during the heli-arc process is more
controlled and focused on the job at hand while allowing the heat in the
area around the weld to disapate in a more uniform manner. Warpage,
although still present, is not as much a problem with heli-arc.
I used to work for Mooney and they did not normalize any of their welds.
Normalizing helps to reduce stress in the weld area caused by heat and
welding instruction books will tell you that it should be done, but it
common practice it is not done. While at Mooney, we never had a weld
fail.
Another advantage to heli-arc welding is that the welding is done using
argon gas which surrounds the arc and keeps out impurities in the air.
Whenever you weld, you will introduce foreign particles into the molten
metal and some of these can be detrimental to the strength of the
finished product. In gas welding, the flame is set in a "nuetralized"
form with a soft blue cone over the darker inner flame. This sets the
heat at about 5700 or 5800 degrees and will introduce a little carbon
into the weld. This is necessary for the strength of the weld and if the
flame is too hot (no soft blue cone) you can burn out existing carbon
from the weld and weaken it.
We used nothing but acetylene welding on our project and I have done all
the welding. I'm not a certified welder, but have done a lot of welding
over the years and have never had anything break (knock on wood!).
Acetylene welding is not all that hard to learn; it just takes a lot of
practice. Good welding equipment is very important as the cheaper gear
will not let you keep a constant flame -- the soft blue cone will
disappear, etc. Forming a good constant puddle of molten steel is
critical to insure 100% penetration throughout the weld. I worked for a
guy once who had heli-arc equipment and used some rod the he claimed gave
a good 90% penetration and that was good enough. It isn't. You want
100% throughout. Selecting the correct rod for whatever type of welding
you do is critical. On airplanes, use the copper coated mild steel rod.
The copper coating is used only to protect the rod from corrosion,
although they will rust if kept a long time in high humidity. I usually
use coat hangers when I weld my car tailpipes and mufflers; they work
just fine and I've never had a tailpipe break (at the weld anyway).
I have used Smith welding equipment in the past and fought it all the
way. This is the stuff sold at Wag-Aero and such places. I now have my
own set which I bought at a discount tool place in San Antonio and am
very happy with it so far. One of my partners who like to buy toys, the
latest and greatest, went and bought a Henrob set. I've used this a lot
and it really works great once you get used to it, but I wouldn't spend
the money on it myself. I paid less than half for my set as he did for
the Henrob. I do intend to weld our aluminum fuel tank when we get that
far and the Henrod will probably be better for aluminum. Aluminum can be
successfully welded using acetylene, but it is certainly more difficult
to say the least.
As for control cables, we are going to use stainless steel throughout.
The 7X7 is OK for straight runs, but use 7X19 for the cables making a
sharp bend going over pulleys. 7X19 is much more flexible and that is
what it was made for. The galvanized cables can rust from the inside
out, showing no signs on the outside. This isn't necessarily usual, but
I've seen it happen. During annual inspections, it is important to twist
all the cables to check for rust inside rather than just running your
hand along, checking for broken strands. Although the aircraft
manufacturers will deliver their planes with galvanized cables installed,
they offer stainless steel replacement cables as an option. I always
encourage my customers to go with the stainless as they last longer.
There is also less problem of broken strands going over the pulleys or
through fairleads -- at least, that's been my experience. Incidently, in
any light plane, a single broken strand of wire in a control cable means
a rejected cable and it needs to be replaced.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "wayne" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
Subject: | Corvair prop hub |
Not that I will be needing it for a while, but what are the prop hubs for
the corvair made of? I believe Wynne's uses aluminum. I intend to build
my own, but I don't see why such a long extension is generally used. Seems
to typically be about 3 -4". I think just over an inch to get the prop
clear should be fine and keeps the bending moment closer to the main
bearings. I suppose the flywheel bolt pattern is just too small a diameter
to handle the bending forces. Suggestions?
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Larry,
Thats good advice, unless he built his the same as mine, where the "pie"
notch comes right down to the ash crossmember. Can't be filing that...Maybe
there is another prob.
As I posted yesterday, I made mine exactly to the print, and it fits fine.
( My pie comes right to the ash ).
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
>
>
> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>Exactly- there's an interference between where the torque tube needs
>>to
>>be to be flat on the floor in front and the bottom of pie shaped
>>cutouts.
>>
>
>My advice still stands..........break out the rat-tail file & make
>sawdust until the torque tube can mount on the floor in front of the
>front seat.
>
>Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: normalizing tig welds |
Bob,
My experience is that your "expert" is correct. I got a hold of 4130
plate .080 thick to get me started on brackets. Someone had torch cut this
piece from a larger piece. After merrily laying out some parts, I went to
the band saw ( Do- All) to cut. Even though the pieces didn't get near the
flame cut area, I had to continue cutting to separate the plate. 1/4" from
the slag area "Zing" , no more teeth. Only to separate the plate was to
bend it, and it snapped like glass. This would be just like a tig weld
joint...Try it for yourself.
My AP mentor always repairs his welding jobs with mild steel rod. ( he
has rebuilt more Cub fuselages than I can count). He states that 4130 rod
is used when the assy has to heat treated, which is not the case when
building normally. If you read the books, they tell you to cool the piece
away from drafts, fans etc.
But it seems that the more you read, the more critical you get of your
work. So when I asked him how you know if the welds aren't brittle, He
simply grabbed a file , and ran the edge over the weld. It dug in and cut
didn't skim over) and said it was fine. The is no substitute for
experience. I love to learn these tricks.
I learned gas welding by trying to do as good as him, and probably will
never get there.
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: normalizing tig welds
>
>The god's honest truth is...I don't know.
>
>The fellows who tig weld , from what I hear, normalize their welds.
>
>Tig is approved for a/c work, and I don't think that they normalize.
>
>I read awhile back that the primary cause for weld failures in a/c are,
>wrong filler rod,, not enough filler rod, and not normalizing welds after
>welding.
>
>A local "expert" claims that tig leaves a very narrow heat affected zone
>next to the weld that is subject to failure from fatigue. He also said that
>gas welding, because of it's wider heat zone does tend to self normalize.
>
>As for myself, I am building an all steel tube frame airplane, and did use
>gas to weld it with mild steel rod, and I did pre heat the weld zone before
>I welded it, then slowly did remove the heat after welding to keep the
welds
>as soft as possible to keep any cracks out.
>
>Bob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Subject: | Soob Engine Mount |
I need some pixsinfo of engine mounts for the soob ea-81. Yall have all
been so helpful both with my questions and I have learned so much from
those you have answerd.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | one more thing on torque tube |
One problem I did have on the torque tube....When made per print, the tube
assy. would not fit from the rear seat thru under the front seat without
hitting the front of the rear seat. Had to make a removable " notch" in the
rear seat, to clear the rear end of the tube.
walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jay and Terri Kurtz" <3slns(at)concentric.net> |
Larry,and Steve My name is Jay and I just picked up a gn-1 project that was
started by Cecil King from Muskegon Mi.The fuse is steel,and the wings (4)
are wood. The plans show the Ariel (biplane) as analternative my phone # is
863 701 0000. I would like to talk with other builders about their projects.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Conoly
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 pictures.
Larry,
I agree with you 100%.. I am 4 1/2 years into building a GN-1. The plans
are garbage. Many, many mistakes in dimensions. Some drawings are to
scale, some arent. No real organization to the plans. Pitiful material
list. Somehow Grega just jumped in on Pietenpol's design and "improved it"
It doesn't really matter now. I've been intimately involved of course with
my project and with other Piet projects over the last several years. Mr.
Piet built "original" (or did he?- look at the old WWI designs - wood-
fabric- cables- skids) and light. Mr. Grega put forth a set of "plans" to
adapt the design to utilize parts that in 1960's were as readily available
as used 486 Pentiums are now.
I agree with you. Lets keep from confusing the two designs. But I try not
to be too class-conscious. We can encourage Newbies to build "original". I
DO - And I can. But lets remember, people wil ferrete out those $25.00
plans in lieu of $100 plans from Pietenpol. thats a fact of life
I did it. Wish I hadn't. But still, to build and fly a homebuilt is the
true goal here- regardless of whether it's original, plagiarized, or
whatever.
Besides, today was a BEAUTIFUL day in south Georgia/North Florida..... and I
got to fly a Piet for the second day in a row! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a great Sunday everybody!
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence V Williams" <lnawms(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 pictures.
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >just curious,
> >I assume that someone took the pietenpol and made
> >enough changes to rename it a GN 1. what are those
> >changes or how is it different?
> >thanks, del
> >
> >Del
>
> John Grega and his thinly disguised attempt to plagarize the
> tried-and-true Pietenpol Air Camper is just another fascinating footnote
> in homebuilt history. His intentions were probably well-founded but using
> the Air Camper's highly recognized outlines and having the audacity to
> call it an "Aircamper" seem a little underhanded and dishonest to most of
> us in the Pietenpol camp.
>
> He basically beefed up an airplane that didn't need beefing up in the
> first place, devised a way to scavenge parts of a junked Cub to complete
> it, slapped the name Aircamper on the resulting craft, and started
> selling plans. (Oh, OK there was a little more to it than that, but
> that's the bottom line.)
>
> I have spoken to several people who have bought plans from the classified
> section in Sport Aviation believing them to be Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper
> plans only to find out that they had been misled by the bold lettered
> "Aircamper" ad. One man had alreay started some initial construction
> before he found out his mistake.
>
> John Grega and his airplane have scores of adherents who are completely
> satisfied with their airplanes, but PLEASE.......it's a GN-1 and has
> nothing to do with Mr. Pietenpol or his wonderful old design.
>
> Look for the Pietenpol AIR CAMPER (two words) for the real McCoy.
>
> You asked.....................
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,works
fine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice.
Doug Hunt
> realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper
place
> at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the
torque
> tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of
the
> torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than
about 2".
>
> Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
> difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
> problem.....
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Corvair prop hub |
Wayne,my hub was machined from 6061T6,shaft into crank,and spud nut,and
washer of 4340.
Doug Hunt
Alberta
----------
> From: wayne <sippola(at)escape.ca>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair prop hub
> Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 10:24 AM
>
>
> Not that I will be needing it for a while, but what are the prop hubs for
> the corvair made of? I believe Wynne's uses aluminum. I intend to build
> my own, but I don't see why such a long extension is generally used.
Seems
> to typically be about 3 -4". I think just over an inch to get the prop
> clear should be fine and keeps the bending moment closer to the main
> bearings. I suppose the flywheel bolt pattern is just too small a
diameter
> to handle the bending forces. Suggestions?
> Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
Thanks everybody for the input on the welding question. Can any body tell me
about how many feet of cable to buy?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: welding&cables |
Hi John....
I've just gotten my plans and look forward to starting this project. Thanks
for posting one of the best written most informative letters I've seen
posted on the web for some time. You answered a lot of questions I was about
to ask.
Eric
>From: nle97(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: welding&cables
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:53:32 -0600
>
>
>Robert,
> There was quite a discussion before on welding and whether TIG,
>MIG, or
>acetylene was the best. Normalizing was also dicussed.
> Heli-arc welding (TIG or MIG) is by far the best, but the
>equipment is
>very expensive and far beyond the reach of most homebuilders. This is
>the type of welding used by the various aircraft manufacturers in a
>production line situation. The width of the weld is the same as in gas
>welding and increased heat stress problems are not a factor. In fact,
>the opposite is true. Heat during the heli-arc process is more
>controlled and focused on the job at hand while allowing the heat in the
>area around the weld to disapate in a more uniform manner. Warpage,
>although still present, is not as much a problem with heli-arc.
> I used to work for Mooney and they did not normalize any of their
>welds.
> Normalizing helps to reduce stress in the weld area caused by heat and
>welding instruction books will tell you that it should be done, but it
>common practice it is not done. While at Mooney, we never had a weld
>fail.
> Another advantage to heli-arc welding is that the welding is done
>using
>argon gas which surrounds the arc and keeps out impurities in the air.
>Whenever you weld, you will introduce foreign particles into the molten
>metal and some of these can be detrimental to the strength of the
>finished product. In gas welding, the flame is set in a "nuetralized"
>form with a soft blue cone over the darker inner flame. This sets the
>heat at about 5700 or 5800 degrees and will introduce a little carbon
>into the weld. This is necessary for the strength of the weld and if the
>flame is too hot (no soft blue cone) you can burn out existing carbon
>from the weld and weaken it.
> We used nothing but acetylene welding on our project and I have
>done all
>the welding. I'm not a certified welder, but have done a lot of welding
>over the years and have never had anything break (knock on wood!).
>Acetylene welding is not all that hard to learn; it just takes a lot of
>practice. Good welding equipment is very important as the cheaper gear
>will not let you keep a constant flame -- the soft blue cone will
>disappear, etc. Forming a good constant puddle of molten steel is
>critical to insure 100% penetration throughout the weld. I worked for a
>guy once who had heli-arc equipment and used some rod the he claimed gave
>a good 90% penetration and that was good enough. It isn't. You want
>100% throughout. Selecting the correct rod for whatever type of welding
>you do is critical. On airplanes, use the copper coated mild steel rod.
>The copper coating is used only to protect the rod from corrosion,
>although they will rust if kept a long time in high humidity. I usually
>use coat hangers when I weld my car tailpipes and mufflers; they work
>just fine and I've never had a tailpipe break (at the weld anyway).
> I have used Smith welding equipment in the past and fought it all
>the
>way. This is the stuff sold at Wag-Aero and such places. I now have my
>own set which I bought at a discount tool place in San Antonio and am
>very happy with it so far. One of my partners who like to buy toys, the
>latest and greatest, went and bought a Henrob set. I've used this a lot
>and it really works great once you get used to it, but I wouldn't spend
>the money on it myself. I paid less than half for my set as he did for
>the Henrob. I do intend to weld our aluminum fuel tank when we get that
>far and the Henrod will probably be better for aluminum. Aluminum can be
>successfully welded using acetylene, but it is certainly more difficult
>to say the least.
> As for control cables, we are going to use stainless steel
>throughout.
>The 7X7 is OK for straight runs, but use 7X19 for the cables making a
>sharp bend going over pulleys. 7X19 is much more flexible and that is
>what it was made for. The galvanized cables can rust from the inside
>out, showing no signs on the outside. This isn't necessarily usual, but
>I've seen it happen. During annual inspections, it is important to twist
>all the cables to check for rust inside rather than just running your
>hand along, checking for broken strands. Although the aircraft
>manufacturers will deliver their planes with galvanized cables installed,
>they offer stainless steel replacement cables as an option. I always
>encourage my customers to go with the stainless as they last longer.
>There is also less problem of broken strands going over the pulleys or
>through fairleads -- at least, that's been my experience. Incidently, in
>any light plane, a single broken strand of wire in a control cable means
>a rejected cable and it needs to be replaced.
>
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
I double checked my torque tube installation last night. 3/4" looks about right.
Filing won't help because the pie-shaped plywood cutout is routed out all the
way to the wooden V under the seat. Thanks to everyone for all the input!
It sounds like there are many ways to interpret the plans.
Walt, we have a large removable cutout in the rear seat so we can access the
elevetor bellcrank assembly for inspection. Otherwise I'm sure we would
have had the same problem on torque tube installation.
-Bill
> From: "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:08:18 -0700
>
>
> Bill,i ended up with a 3/4 "shim under the front torque tube mount,works
> fine,plenty of clearance,1/2" would have been sufice.
> Doug Hunt
>
>
> > realize that with the rear torque tube bearing installed in its proper
> place
> > at the crossmember underneath the front of the rear seat, and with the
> torque
> > tube resting in the "V" shaped cutouts under the front seat, the front of
> the
> > torque tube will get no closer to the floor in the front cockpit than
> about 2".
> >
> > Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
> > difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
> > problem.....
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Walt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be a
rearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towards the
tail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee at the
rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-member is.
The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may be
the problem!
Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-member and
the front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?
Thanks for the help,
-Bill
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:49:31 -0500
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> X-Status: $$$$
> X-UID: 0000000032
>
>
> Bill,
> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did
> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube
> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I
> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to
> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some
> variations.
> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different
> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right down
> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.
> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under
> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg
> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat
> plane.
> Walt Evans
> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
> >problem.....
> >
> >-Bill Beerman
> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot
> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-
> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.
> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Torque tube installation |
Bill,
Yeah, the long block is to support the front bearing. Had to raise it
slightly to get comfortable clearance in your problem area.
Just a suggestion...why don't you split the difference raising under the
front and back bearing of the tube? Should be room under the seat, and the
control cables go back and up anyway. I had made a double pulley bracket to
mount at rear of seat where cables come thru. Seemed to me that the cables
would be sawing on the thru holes.
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: William C. Beerman <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
>
>Walt, thanks for the info. I look at at your picture, which appears to be a
>rearward view across the ash cross-member at the landing gear back towards
the
>tail. I did notice two things- the wooden members that make up the Vee at
the
>rear set don't actually come together at the bottom, where the cross-member
is.
>The friend who built our fuse made it so they actually meet. Therein may be
>the problem!
>
>Also, there's a bevel-edged block on the floor between the ash cross-member
and
>the front seat. Is that to support the front of the torque tube?
>
>Thanks for the help,
>-Bill
>
>> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Torque tube installation
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:49:31 -0500
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> X-Status: $$$$
>> X-UID: 0000000032
>>
>>
>> Bill,
>> I've completed that section and mine came out right to print. But I did
>> notice a few things about that. First, when I completed the torque tube
>> with all its welding, there was a slight bend in mine. Secondly, if I
>> recall correctly, the "V" shaped opening in the front seat back bottom to
>> clear the tube, the dimensions were such that there could be some
>> variations.
>> If you look at the pics of all the other projects, you'll see different
>> variations of the hole. I took it that the bottom of the "V" was right
down
>> to the ash cross beam , and it worked out fine.
>> There are alot of pics around, but mine is at the aircamper site under
>> http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/wbefseat1.jpg
>> the block to support the front "bearing" is at an angle to get the flat
>> plane.
>> Walt Evans
>> >Plan is to shim the floor with a wedge shaped wood block to make up the
>> >difference, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered the same
>> >problem.....
>> >
>> >-Bill Beerman
>> > Stinson Station Wagon owner / pilot
>> > 1/4 partnership long fuse Piet-
>> > fuse & tail done, metal fittings and controls in progress.
>> > Brodhead attendee 2yrs. running.......
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Engine? Engine? What engine?
Okay, just WHAT IS a soob ea-81 engine??? It has appeared in several
lists and no one has questioned it so it seems it is not a typo-error.
Got any ideas?
All I come up with is; Sun Oh Oa Beach eeeaaa-81 (all said with a
Swedish accent).
Beats me, planes I'm familiar with, engines are another thing.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Exstrom <exstromb(at)onlinemac.com> |
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Engine? Engine? What engine?
>
>Okay, just WHAT IS a soob ea-81 engine???
Subaru automotive engine, model EA-81. Currently one of the more popular
auto conversions for x aircraft installation. Cost is reasonable, and
Stratus in Washington reportedly does a good conversion job for aircraft use.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Soob is a nic-name for Subaru. The EA-81 is the model number for the
engine that was the mainstay of the Subaru fleet from the late 70's until
the EA-82 mosel in the late 80's. The EA-81 is a 1.8 liter, aluminum cased
water cooled, horizontally opposed (boxer style), pushrod, 8 valve engine
capable of 75-100 hp depending on the specific model. Some had turbo
chargers making them a little more powerful. There is also a smaller 1.6
liter version called the EA-71. The EA-82 was introduced with dual OHC and
produced more power again. Later the EJ-22 (2.2 l) and EJ-33 (3.3 l)were
introduced with more hp and electronic fuel injection, electronic
ignition, etc.
These little engines are very reliable in Subarus and have been
successfully converted to aircraft use. They are to homebuilding what the
VW engine was in the 70's, an inexpensive alternative to a Cont or Lyc.
However, they really require a Prop Speed Reduction Unit (PSRU) to work
well.
Several companies like NSI, Stratus, etc build turn-key Soob packages for
a number of kitplanes like the Kitfox and Avids.
Hope this helps,
Ken
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Rodger & Betty wrote:
>
> Engine? Engine? What engine?
>
> Okay, just WHAT IS a soob ea-81 engine??? It has appeared in several
> lists and no one has questioned it so it seems it is not a typo-error.
> Got any ideas?
>
> All I come up with is; Sun Oh Oa Beach eeeaaa-81 (all said with a
> Swedish accent).
>
> Beats me, planes I'm familiar with, engines are another thing.
>
> Rodger
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
Now that makes perfect sense, Subaru, yes, I've heard that one a time
or two.
Thanks guys, I knew I could count on you all.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Ya might want to look at the EA-82...
Its heavier (about 255+ installed) and has belt drive cams, but will do
about 65-70 hp direct drive @ 300-322 and most of the other homebuilders
dont want them, beacause they are heavy and belt-drive cam!!!
which means they are cheap ($125 for mine) and work just fine on the old
"ford 'a'. 't'/ chevy 4 ect type planes.
in fact, it will probably work better than an EA-81, because the weight is
closer (but still lighter) than the original motors.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engines
>
>Soob is a nic-name for Subaru. The EA-81 is the model number for the
>engine that was the mainstay of the Subaru fleet from the late 70's until
>the EA-82 mosel in the late 80's. The EA-81 is a 1.8 liter, aluminum cased
>water cooled, horizontally opposed (boxer style), pushrod, 8 valve engine
>capable of 75-100 hp depending on the specific model. Some had turbo
>chargers making them a little more powerful. There is also a smaller 1.6
>liter version called the EA-71. The EA-82 was introduced with dual OHC and
>produced more power again. Later the EJ-22 (2.2 l) and EJ-33 (3.3 l)were
>introduced with more hp and electronic fuel injection, electronic
>ignition, etc.
>
>These little engines are very reliable in Subarus and have been
>successfully converted to aircraft use. They are to homebuilding what the
>VW engine was in the 70's, an inexpensive alternative to a Cont or Lyc.
>However, they really require a Prop Speed Reduction Unit (PSRU) to work
>well.
>
>Several companies like NSI, Stratus, etc build turn-key Soob packages for
>a number of kitplanes like the Kitfox and Avids.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Ken
>
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Rodger & Betty wrote:
>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>>
>> Engine? Engine? What engine?
>>
>> Okay, just WHAT IS a soob ea-81 engine??? It has appeared in several
>> lists and no one has questioned it so it seems it is not a typo-error.
>> Got any ideas?
>>
>> All I come up with is; Sun Oh Oa Beach eeeaaa-81 (all said with a
>> Swedish accent).
>>
>> Beats me, planes I'm familiar with, engines are another thing.
>>
>> Rodger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Subject: | Re: Corvair prop hub |
Wayne,
Sorry I haven't had the time yet to make you a drawing, but I promise you I
will.
I made my prop hub out of 4130. I paid for one to be made to my specs,
including the prop shaft. Those drawings I'm sure I have somewhere, I'll dig
them out and send them to you. I personally would not use alum. Yes you can
save weight but the corvair needs the weight there to help with the fly
wheel effect, even though it is low effect being so close to the center.
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
I need so info on the sizes of the tubing,diameter,thickness/rivit
type&gusset,thickness,size/ you use in your Newport.Also do you think I
can build my GN using the wood/tube plan?? Or should I reenforce some
areas.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Subject: | Re: Drag/Antidrag wires |
Ken,
You re probably right. I purchased some, but only used it where it would be
out of the weather. Like I said one of the differences is the missing cotton
to wick the oil through the strands. I don't know why the P/N is the same,
but on the wire I purchased from leavens the fibre was red in color, and
missing from Cdn. Tires'.
Regards,
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Corvair engine mount |
I am building a Flybaby with a corvair. I was wondering if you guys had a
copy of the drawing for a mount.
William Koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Soob engine mount |
I think it was on this list some one wanted an engine mount plan/info for
EA-81 SOOB ?
Try May 1998 issue of EAA Experimenter magazine. It's on page 12.
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
I want to find the best/cheapest 4130 tubing source I can. I know we have
talked about this before but not enough info on 4130 was posted.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: 4130 sources. |
Steve,
No doubt about it...Dillsburg Aeroplane Works!
In Pa. Call for free price list
717-432-4589
Their list is mainly just listed by mil. #'s. But if you have a AS&S
catalog, or similar, you can look up the description, and save alot, and get
great service. My second project with them. Get all my tubing and most
hardware with them.
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sources.
>
>I want to find the best/cheapest 4130 tubing source I can. I know we have
>talked about this before but not enough info on 4130 was posted.
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com ;
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sources.
>Steve,
> No doubt about it...Dillsburg Aeroplane Works!
> In Pa. Call for free price list
>717-432-4589
>Their list is mainly just listed by mil. #'s. But if you have a AS&S
>catalog, or similar, you can look up the description, and save alot, and
get
>great service. My second project with them. Get all my tubing and most
>hardware with them.
>walt evans
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
>To: pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com ;
>pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
>fly5k(at)listbot.com
>Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 7:28 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130 sources.
>
>
>>
>>I want to find the best/cheapest 4130 tubing source I can. I know we have
>>talked about this before but not enough info on 4130 was posted.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>Steve W GN-1 builder
>>IHA #6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
Subject: | 1999 List of Contributors #2! |
Dear Listers,
Below is the final List of Contributors for 1999 as promised. Again, I
would like to thank everyone that made a generous contribution in 1999
to support the continued operation of these email Lists. Your support
directly makes the quality and quantity of this service possible.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
RV-4 Builder, #1763 - N442RV
Adamson, Arden
Allender, Patrick
Anonymous from MN
Asher, M.E.
Baxter, Rob
Bell, Doug
Bendure, Ryan
Bergh, David
Berrie, Robert
Blake, J.I.
Boucher, Michel
Bragg, Medford
Briegleb, Ross
Brietigam, Charles
Broomell, Glenn
Brusilow, Michael
Chatham, Robert
Clary, Buck
Coats, Lonnie
Cook, Craig - Golf Instruments Co.
Cooper, James
Cribb, William Jr.
Crosby, Harry
Dane, Bill Von
Dziewiontkoski, Bob
Ellenberger, Mike
Embree, Roger
Faatz, Mitch
Fasching, John
Gibbons, Robert
Glauser, David
Gold, Andy -Builder's Bookstore 10%
Gregory, Steve
Grenier, Raymond
Guarino, Michael
H., Harold - E.P.M.AV Corp
Hale, Brian
Hunt, Wallace
Johnston, Leroy
Jordon, Don
Killion, Clay
Klingmuller, Dr. L.M.
Magaw, David
Mains, Ralph
Maltby, Michael
Martin, Cliff - Martin Metal Fab
Mazataud, Hyun Sook
McBride, Duncan
McDonald, James
Mendenhall, Elbie - E.M Aviation
Mitchell, Duane
Morley, Harold
Peck, Phil
Pessel, Garnett
Rodebush, James
Ross, Jonathan
Schmidt, John
Scully, William
Smith, Steven
Spence, Stephen
Triff, Wes
Wagoner, Richard
Weaver, Brian
Wiegenstein, John
Wiley, Robert
Wilson, Donald
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
With all the recent talk about dope and fabric and what was used to
paint the various projects, I noticed that everyone had used dacron. Has
anyone out there used any unbleached muslin that can be obtained from
Sears? This is the same as grade A cotton, just not certified. I have a
friend who is covering his Tailwind with this stuff and am just wondering
if any other Piet builders have tried it or not?
Ceconite or dacron has been the rage for years, but when I owned a dope
and fabric shop many years ago most of the palnes I recovered were old
Tri-Pacer's with original Grade A at least 17 years old. I've known of
several Ceconite jobs that didn't last ten years -- usually on Citabrias
for some reason. I believe it was because of all the sharp angles
(maybe).
Anyway, just curious.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re: Like your site. |
Hi Steve :
Sorry I didnt get back, been really busy.
I'll try to post some more pics soon. My rib jig is really ragged out.
After 28 ribs the jig blocks are just really loose and rounded. Also the
paper pattern I stapled to it has gotten torn off in several places. Since
its a good Idea to keep the jig handy (for repairs etc) I would suggest you
build one and not use anyone else's. Shouldn't take more than 4 to 6 hours
total to build one. AND ITS Yours!
My gear are just by the plans. I would suggest using springs instead of
bungees though. The wheels and tires I have are actually from a J-3 cub.
Dont use those. Get a set of 8:00 x 6:00 tires and order a set of 6:00
brakes/wheels. Can get them form AS&S or Wicks. You;ll be glad you went
ther instead of the old Cub stuff.
I've seen your posts a LOT. Have you started construction yet??? How far
along are you???
I'm not seein many Piet posts any more. Are ya'll still out there??
Well, gotta go back to the shop. Just on break right now.
See Ya. Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "vistin" <vistin(at)mail.surfree.com.criticalpath.net>
Subject: Like your site.
> I really did enjoy looking at your project. I would like omre pictures
> though and if you still have your rib jig. If you do Could I borrow it?
> By the way, I also like your landing gear. I plan on building mine too.
> Do you know of anyone with wheels and tires like you have? I hope to
> find some that arent so expensive.
>
> P.S. I am the person that has the BuildinGN1 email site running.
>
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
Subject: | Confusion Over "List of Contributors"... |
Hi Listers,
I'm really sorry for the confusion over the most recent posting of the
List of Contributors #2. List #2 contained only the contributor names
*since* the List #1 was posted. So, if you weren't on List #2, you were
likely on List #1. Below are URLs to each of the LOC #x postings.
Again, sorry for the confusion. I should have made it more clear in
the verbiage.
Thanks to everyone,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
List of Contributors #1 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
List of Contributors #2 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
============================================================================
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Subject: | Re: (Whoops) Confusion Over "List of Contributors"... |
>
>Okay, here are the *real* URLs. Sorry...
>
>
>Matt Dralle
>Email List Admin.
>
>
>============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
>
>
> List of Contributors #1 - 1999
> ------------------------------
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_
>of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
>
>
> List of Contributors #2 - 1999
> ------------------------------
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_
>of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
>
>============================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
Subject: | Re: (No, Really - Here are the URLs) Confusion Over "List |
of Contributors"...
Geeze, I can't seem to type today. Here are the *real*, *REAL* URLs.
Sorry for so many posts... Ack
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
============================= LOC #1 and #2 ================================
List of Contributors #1 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=29144?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=2?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
List of Contributors #2 - 1999
------------------------------
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=53146?KEYS=list_of_con?LISTNAME=Homebuilt?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=11144111847?SHOWBUTTONS=NO
============================================================================
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | C-FAUK (No, I am not swaering at anybody ) |
Does anyone know if Brian Kenny (C-FAUK, based at Hamilton) has e-mail? I
was going through a bunch of old Sport Aviations, and found one with a
picture and bit of a write-up on his plane he might like to have.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
listening to the welding posts. I am hearing so
many different things that I'm still not absolutely
sure what is the best method, if there is a best
method.
so this is the tentitive conclusion that I've
arrived at. I've had a few parts wire feed welded and
they are soft enough to file. so they should be good,
so I'm not going to "normalize" them, which Is the
same as "annealing" (bringing back to a soft state). I
am purchasing the motor mt from william wynn so I
don't have to worry about that falling apart. some of
the real light guage metal work I plan to silver
solder.
comments?
del
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Del:
Normalizing is not the same as annealing. Annealing is, as you state,
removing the heat treatment and bringing the material back to a soft state.
This is usually applied to aluminum, which must be annealed before any
complex forming. Normalizing is heating an entire part or sometimes just
the area around a weld to equalize the stresses in the part which are
created by welding, bending, etc. As for being a "best" way to do it, it
just depends on what you (or the welder) is most comfortable with.
Personally, I like oxy-acetylene because it is less expensive to equip
yourself, easier to learn to do, and, to some extent, more forgiving of
small errors. (BTW, I agree with the earlier post, 4130 rod is not the
best to use for aircraft welding with gas, use mild steel rods) Because
oxy-acet heats up a larger area while welding than the various electric arc
welders, normalizing is not always needed. Also, it is better if you need
to weld and form (bend) a part as you go (because it heats up so large an
area), although I can't think of a Piet fitting that would fit this
description. Arc welding (MIG or TIG, etc) is sometimes an advantage
simply because it does NOT heat a large area so that if you are welding a
particularly thick part, you do not have to wait until you heat up the
entire part.
I know this has not cleared up your question. It really all depends on
what you have access to and what you are comfortable with.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Walter Allen" <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wing attach points. |
Steve:
I have a full set of 3 piece wing attach brackets that I bought at Oshkosh
adventure 99. They have some damage, but they made excellent patterns for
me. contact me if you are interested.
Walter
>From: vistin(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, fly5k(at)listbot.com,
>Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach points.
>Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:54:25 -0600
>
>
>I am curious about the wing attach points/straps used on the Piets three
>piece wing configuration. Is the piece used aprox 12" long and uses three
>bolts through the front/rear spar? Or is it a plate type of mount. Is the
>spar reenforced with 1/16th ply or what.
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wing attach points. |
Walter:
I am interested so how do we need to do this. My snail is
Steve Williamson
114 Pleasant st
Brandon, Ms 39042
Or just let me know what you can do.
Steve
writes:
>
>
> Steve:
> I have a full set of 3 piece wing attach brackets that I bought at
> Oshkosh
> adventure 99. They have some damage, but they made excellent
> patterns for
> me. contact me if you are interested.
> Walter
>
>
> >From: vistin(at)juno.com
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, fly5k(at)listbot.com,
> >Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach points.
> >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:54:25 -0600
> >
> >
> >I am curious about the wing attach points/straps used on the Piets
> three
> >piece wing configuration. Is the piece used aprox 12" long and uses
> three
> >bolts through the front/rear spar? Or is it a plate type of mount.
> Is the
> >spar reenforced with 1/16th ply or what.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >Steve W GN-1 builder
> >IHA #6
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Can yall tell me what kind of fabric Steve Eldredge used to cover his
aircamper??
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
Would the person who is making up a list of registered Pietenpols in the
US--you said had given some out at Broadhead, etc.--please contact me at my
daughter's email address. I would like to buy a copy of the updated list
from you.
Thank you,
Frank Cooley
patcoolnet(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Also I want the king/brand of paint Steve Eldgridge used on his plane
too.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I'm still here. I used the 1.7oz generic dacron from As&S. It was about
$3.65 a yard. I used the generic tapes, and poly fiber products to glue it
down. rib stitching was with round cord, not flat.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steves fabric.
Can yall tell me what kind of fabric Steve Eldredge used to cover his
aircamper??
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Bray <jbbray(at)ldd.net> |
Subject: | Re: Steves fabric. |
You can contact Steve at steve(at)byu.edu Jerry
vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Can yall tell me what kind of fabric Steve Eldredge used to cover his
> aircamper??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Subject: | Re: C-FAUK (No, I am not swaering at anybody ) |
Hi,
Try bkenney@petro-canada.ca
I'm sure he already has the article. I'm not sure what his home e-mail
address is though.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: C-FAUK (No, I am not swaering at anybody ) |
Thanks Dominic
I got an e-mail from him today, and will give him a call next time I am back
in Hamilton.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: C-FAUK (No, I am not swaering at anybody
)
>
>Hi,
>Try bkenney@petro-canada.ca
>I'm sure he already has the article. I'm not sure what his home e-mail
>address is though.
>
>Domenic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
A year or so ago I read an article about an airplane called a Longster. The
origonal way to build was not to weld the tubing at all. Instead, they built
it with sheet steel gussets, brazed to the tubing.
From what I hear, brazing is no longer acceptable for a/c use, because of a
problem with dissimilar metals, and electric corrosion.
If you silvar soder, you may run into the same problem, and a silve sodered
part may not be considered air worthy.
Just something to think about I really don't know.
Bob
>From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: piet aircamper
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: welding
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:50:39 -0800 (PST)
>
>
> listening to the welding posts. I am hearing so
>many different things that I'm still not absolutely
>sure what is the best method, if there is a best
>method.
> so this is the tentitive conclusion that I've
>arrived at. I've had a few parts wire feed welded and
>they are soft enough to file. so they should be good,
>so I'm not going to "normalize" them, which Is the
>same as "annealing" (bringing back to a soft state). I
>am purchasing the motor mt from william wynn so I
>don't have to worry about that falling apart. some of
>the real light guage metal work I plan to silver
>solder.
>comments?
>
>del
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I have posted tons about my painting process, and answered many good
questions that I would surely forget to include it I tried to go through it
all again. Check the Archives on matts site for the info using Latex as the
search word. I'd be happy to explain anything that comes up as questions.
The short of it is that I used plain ol house paint applied with brush,
rollers and an airless gun. It came out fine, but not award winning for
only a couple hundred dollars. I would go with a automotive finish or
straight Randolf or Polyfiber product next time to get the gloss for a more
modern airframe, but for the pietenpol that is to look period 30's it is
entirely acceptable and looks authentic. It is easy to touch up, does not
crack (if you keep the buildup thin) and is UV and weather proof. No
problems with gas either.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steves paint.
Also I want the king/brand of paint Steve Eldgridge used on his plane
too.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Steves fabric. |
Steve:
Please tell me how much fabric you wouned up using.
Steve
>
> I'm still here. I used the 1.7oz generic dacron from As&S. It was
> about
> $3.65 a yard. I used the generic tapes, and poly fiber products to
> glue it
> down. rib stitching was with round cord, not flat.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steves fabric.
>
>
>
> Can yall tell me what kind of fabric Steve Eldredge used to cover
> his
> aircamper??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Hmmm. That is a harder question. I started the rudder with some leftovers
from another project and ordered fabric, tapes, and other supplies at least
twice. I think I ended up using just under 30 yards of 60" fabric. Didn't
keep track of how much of each size of tape, but 2" was the most common.
Rough guess would be 4-5 rolls of 2", 1-2 rolls of 1", 1-2 rolls of 3" and a
roll of 4" for the LE. Murphy got the best of me several times supplies
wise, when I'd just run out near the end of the job.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steves fabric.
Steve:
Please tell me how much fabric you wouned up using.
Steve
>
> I'm still here. I used the 1.7oz generic dacron from As&S. It was
> about
> $3.65 a yard. I used the generic tapes, and poly fiber products to
> glue it
> down. rib stitching was with round cord, not flat.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:12 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steves fabric.
>
>
>
> Can yall tell me what kind of fabric Steve Eldredge used to cover
> his
> aircamper??
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has anyone cut
there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I think mine weighed about 8oz, Dunno on the plywood version.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has anyone cut
there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve:
You made them out of Doug Fir then?? Hmm, that seems a good way to go
then. The built up ribs are better in that if you (or I) bump something
we dont have to replace the whole wing (in using ply ribs) all we have to
do is open up the broken area and repair the broken rib's n sew/glue it
backup. Sounds kinda like Dr stuff HUH!
Steve
>
> I think mine weighed about 8oz, Dunno on the plywood version.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
>
>
>
> Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has
> anyone cut
> there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Yep the whole plane has narry a piece of spruce in it. I figure it cost me
less than 8lbs to use Doug fir. I did shed 16lbs by routing the 1" spars.
total weight with engine was 626llbs.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
Steve:
You made them out of Doug Fir then?? Hmm, that seems a good way to go
then. The built up ribs are better in that if you (or I) bump something
we dont have to replace the whole wing (in using ply ribs) all we have to
do is open up the broken area and repair the broken rib's n sew/glue it
backup. Sounds kinda like Dr stuff HUH!
Steve
>
> I think mine weighed about 8oz, Dunno on the plywood version.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
>
>
>
> Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has
> anyone cut
> there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve:
Did you use 1" longerons or did you cut them according to the
weight/stringth difference. Did you build all the metal fittings to plans
or did you save weight here too.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I used the plans dimentions everywhere, no adjusting for strength/weight.
All fittings are to the plans as well.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
Steve:
Did you use 1" longerons or did you cut them according to the
weight/stringth difference. Did you build all the metal fittings to plans
or did you save weight here too.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve:
Didnt you use some extruded aluminum you got in a chair factory? I would
like info on how you attached them to the wing/fuse. and where can I get
some of this material.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve:
Please give me your website so I can see your plane.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
All,
If Steve's 100% fir Piet weighs 630lbs. Take away 200lbs for engine, 30
lbs for covering, instruments, hardware, etc. should leave you with a wood
airframe at about 400lbs. Assuming that fir is 25% heavier than spruce
(Wood Book), a comparable airframe in spruce would weigh in at about 300lbs.
I'm becoming suspicious about the 25% heavier figure!
Comments, anyone?
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Dont't forget the plywood weight. It's not affected by spruce/fir weight.
Ken.
On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Joe Krzes wrote:
>
> All,
> If Steve's 100% fir Piet weighs 630lbs. Take away 200lbs for engine, 30
> lbs for covering, instruments, hardware, etc. should leave you with a wood
> airframe at about 400lbs. Assuming that fir is 25% heavier than spruce
> (Wood Book), a comparable airframe in spruce would weigh in at about 300lbs.
> I'm becoming suspicious about the 25% heavier figure!
> Comments, anyone?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | Experimenter...Was Wing rib. |
So, should that have been item #8: use Doug Fir rather than Sitka Spruce!
Now, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, please turn to page
40 of the January, 2000 Experimenter. There you will find a very excellent
article writen by none other than Mr. Steve Eldredge! Great article Steve!
For those who don't recieve Experimenter, it's well worth the money (I
think it's only $12 or $15 per year!). Over the last couple of months, it
shold have been renamed to the Pietenpoller with the number of articles on
this plane. There are 2 articles in this issue alone and there was a cover
article a couple of months ago.
Anyway, I didn't see any other mention of this article on the list (really
suprising as we generally get our EAA publications about 2-3 weeks after
you guys in the states) and figured some mention was certainly due.
Congratulations on being Published, Steve
Ken
On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> Yep the whole plane has narry a piece of spruce in it. I figure it cost me
> less than 8lbs to use Doug fir. I did shed 16lbs by routing the 1" spars.
> total weight with engine was 626llbs.
>
> Steve e.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 3:24 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
>
>
>
> Steve:
> You made them out of Doug Fir then?? Hmm, that seems a good way to go
> then. The built up ribs are better in that if you (or I) bump something
> we dont have to replace the whole wing (in using ply ribs) all we have to
> do is open up the broken area and repair the broken rib's n sew/glue it
> backup. Sounds kinda like Dr stuff HUH!
>
> Steve
>
> >
> > I think mine weighed about 8oz, Dunno on the plywood version.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > vistin(at)juno.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:39 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
> >
> >
> >
> > Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has
> > anyone cut
> > there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Steve W GN-1 builder
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dick Nelsen <richard.nelsen(at)sdl.usu.edu> |
Joe Krzes wrote:
>
> All,
> If Steve's 100% fir Piet weighs 630lbs. Take away 200lbs for engine, 30
> lbs for covering, instruments, hardware, etc. should leave you with a wood
> airframe at about 400lbs. Assuming that fir is 25% heavier than spruce
> (Wood Book), a comparable airframe in spruce would weigh in at about 300lbs.
> I'm becoming suspicious about the 25% heavier figure!
> Comments, anyone?
>
> Joe
>
Joe,
I believe your a little high regarding the weight of Douglas Fir to Sitka
Spruce. My reference material puts it closer to 15% difference.
Spruce 28 lbs/ft
3
Doug Fir 33 lbs/ft
3
The engine is closer to 165lbs less prop.
Just thought I would comment.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
All,
Thanks for the responses. This list is still the best piet building
resource. Also, I'm glad that Ken brought up the article in Experimenter.
Really enjoyed reading about Steve's build! I understand there are more
Piet articles to come in either Experimenter or SA.
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
You haven't taken all the hardware out like wheels, seats, etc.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fir Piet
>
>All,
> If Steve's 100% fir Piet weighs 630lbs. Take away 200lbs for engine, 30
>lbs for covering, instruments, hardware, etc. should leave you with a wood
>airframe at about 400lbs. Assuming that fir is 25% heavier than spruce
>(Wood Book), a comparable airframe in spruce would weigh in at about
300lbs.
>I'm becoming suspicious about the 25% heavier figure!
>Comments, anyone?
>
>Joe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Subject: | Experimenter...Was Wing rib. |
Thanks for the kudo's it is kind of neat to see the article. I hadn't been
a subscriber, but now I am. I should have said something about using
spruce, and now that you mention it I am surprised that I didn't! Duh....
Judging from the other articles I would agree that it is a great deal and
would suggest others subscribe. The editor Mary Jones is great to work with
and is excited about affordable flying machines.
Just my $.02
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter...Was Wing rib.
So, should that have been item #8: use Doug Fir rather than Sitka Spruce!
Now, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, please turn to page
40 of the January, 2000 Experimenter. There you will find a very excellent
article writen by none other than Mr. Steve Eldredge! Great article Steve!
For those who don't recieve Experimenter, it's well worth the money (I
think it's only $12 or $15 per year!). Over the last couple of months, it
shold have been renamed to the Pietenpoller with the number of articles on
this plane. There are 2 articles in this issue alone and there was a cover
article a couple of months ago.
Anyway, I didn't see any other mention of this article on the list (really
suprising as we generally get our EAA publications about 2-3 weeks after
you guys in the states) and figured some mention was certainly due.
Congratulations on being Published, Steve
Ken
On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> Yep the whole plane has narry a piece of spruce in it. I figure it cost
me
> less than 8lbs to use Doug fir. I did shed 16lbs by routing the 1" spars.
> total weight with engine was 626llbs.
>
> Steve e.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> vistin(at)juno.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 3:24 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
>
>
>
> Steve:
> You made them out of Doug Fir then?? Hmm, that seems a good way to go
> then. The built up ribs are better in that if you (or I) bump something
> we dont have to replace the whole wing (in using ply ribs) all we have to
> do is open up the broken area and repair the broken rib's n sew/glue it
> backup. Sounds kinda like Dr stuff HUH!
>
> Steve
>
> >
> > I think mine weighed about 8oz, Dunno on the plywood version.
> >
> > Steve E.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > vistin(at)juno.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 1:39 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
> >
> >
> >
> > Can yall tell me how much a "Douglas Fir" wing rib weighs? Has
> > anyone cut
> > there ribs out of ply and how much do they weigh.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Steve W GN-1 builder
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I have tried to get more of that material myself. Unsuccessful since it was
remnants when I got it the first time.
I changed machines and my website is down at the moment, but I'll try and
ressurect it. It will be found at http:\\steve.byu.edu when it is back.
I'll let you know. If you dig around on the www.pietenpol.org site you will
see many images of my plane. It is green and white, with a big block "E" on
the rudder and "AirCamper" on the side.
Steve E.
Nx7229R
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib.
Steve:
Didnt you use some extruded aluminum you got in a chair factory? I would
like info on how you attached them to the wing/fuse. and where can I get
some of this material.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I doubt just the wood in the plane weighs 400lbs. My guess is that it is
more like 225lbs. I didn't weigh it, but It just isn't that heavy. I could
move the wing panels by myself until they were covered and they became to
hard to handle, and the fuse is only about 70lbs naked. What adds up is the
engine and mount, control system, LANDING GEAR, Struts and braces and
fittings, instruments, cowling, fuel tank and plumbage, covering, paint,
wood varnish, hardware, etc...
So 15% (if it is that much) of 225 is 30lbs or so. My guess is that the
difference is less than that, since we are still talking plywood, glue, and
fasteners (nails ~1.5lbs). I plan on building all my future planes with DF
unless I'm given a load of spruce.
Probably more than you wanted to know.
Steve E.
Provo, UT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Beanlands
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fir Piet
Dont't forget the plywood weight. It's not affected by spruce/fir weight.
Ken.
On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Joe Krzes wrote:
>
> All,
> If Steve's 100% fir Piet weighs 630lbs. Take away 200lbs for engine, 30
> lbs for covering, instruments, hardware, etc. should leave you with a wood
> airframe at about 400lbs. Assuming that fir is 25% heavier than spruce
> (Wood Book), a comparable airframe in spruce would weigh in at about
300lbs.
> I'm becoming suspicious about the 25% heavier figure!
> Comments, anyone?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | How much does a Piet weigh? |
I'm worried folks, if Steve's plane weights what he said it does,
it may need a R-R Merlin V-12 to get it off the ground. Really now,
6261 lbs IS a bit much (see below, =;) look closely to how he put it)!
Me? I hoping for somewhere between 6~700 at the most.
But D-Fir is a good wood to use, about 11% heavier than spruce but
about 38~46% stronger. Also cheaper too!
Rodger
One piece wing'd
Piet in progress
On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
Yep the whole plane has narry a piece of spruce in it. I figure it
cost me less than 8lbs to use Doug fir. I did shed 16lbs by routing
the 1" spars. total weight with engine was 626llbs.(sic)
Steve e.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
That's EXACTLY what I wanted to know.
Thanks,
Joe
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>
>I doubt just the wood in the plane weighs 400lbs. My guess is that it is
>more like 225lbs. I didn't weigh it, but It just isn't that heavy. I
>could
>move the wing panels by myself until they were covered and they became to
>hard to handle, and the fuse is only about 70lbs naked. What adds up is
>the
>engine and mount, control system, LANDING GEAR, Struts and braces and
>fittings, instruments, cowling, fuel tank and plumbage, covering, paint,
>wood varnish, hardware, etc...
>
>So 15% (if it is that much) of 225 is 30lbs or so. My guess is that the
>difference is less than that, since we are still talking plywood, glue, and
>fasteners (nails ~1.5lbs). I plan on building all my future planes with DF
>unless I'm given a load of spruce.
>
>Probably more than you wanted to know.
>
>Steve E.
>Provo, UT
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
Subject: | I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
gutter!!!!!
I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an angle
and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless absolutly
neccisary).
Anybody got a third idea??????
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Mike,
I was looking at some Ragwing plans and they suggest a third, pie shaped
piece, same length as the side trussing, glued and clamped in the pie shaped
void. Now finding that angle...
Joe
>The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
>angle
>and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>
>The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
>together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
>in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
>absolutly
>neccisary).
>
>Anybody got a third idea??????
>
>Mike
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Subject: | I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Hi Mike,
Make it light. Particularly if you are planning on using anything other
than the marvelous pile of ballast called a Model A. Piets are notoriously
tail-heavy, so an ounce saved at the tail post is equivalent to a pound
saved in the cockpit. Perhaps you can make a scarf joint sander like is
shown in the EAA Wood aircraft construction techniques book to put the
correct angle on the wood. Don't know, haven't gotten that far myself.
Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Lund [SMTP:crafters(at)elgin.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:55 PM
> To: ragwing; piet aircamper; piet; 5k
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
> Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
> sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
> gutter!!!!!
>
> I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
>
> The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
> angle
> and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>
> The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
> together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
> in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
> absolutly
> neccisary).
>
> Anybody got a third idea??????
>
> Mike
> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> The more money you throw at them,
> the faster they fly.
>
> IHA 110
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | I got it up !!!!!!!! |
One of the things we were taught in "airplane design school" was that
every pound saved on a components designed weight will save 6 lbs on the
entire plane. Of course, this is more true on larger planes than smaller
ones. The thinking is that the structure throughout the plane has to be
beefed up and each piece you beef up requires another piece to be beefed
up. This eventually requires a bigger engine and more fuel and the cycle
continues.
Performance is also greatly affected. The Christavia is a good example.
The original weighed in at 745 lbs. It had no electrics and only the
required basic instruments. It would cruise quite readily at 105 mph and
climb at 1000 fpm at 1300 (gross with an A-65). The biggest complaint I've
heard goes something like this: "I think that Ron Mason's performance
numbers are completely out of whack. With my 0-200/0-235 I can only get
95-100 mph and just barely 1000 fpm at gross. There's no way he could get
105 mph and 1000 fpm on only 65 hp." My response to that is "What does
your plane weigh, what gross weight are you using". Invariable, the empty
is over the 900 lb mark and the gross is 1500-1650 (Mason later increased
the max gross to 1500 on wheels and 1650 on floats). One is even at 1065
lbs and is flown at a gross of 1650 on a C-90.
Basically, it shows that with our light planes, an increase in weight of
20%-25% will require an increase in power of 50%-70% to get the same
performance. However, there are some compromises that have to be made. For
example, switching to a carbon fiber wing would save lots of weight, but
at what cost! The same is true of engines. A small gas turbine is
superlight, but the fuel burn and purchase price make it out of the realm
of most builders.
Ken
On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Jack Phillips (EUS) wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Make it light. Particularly if you are planning on using anything other
> than the marvelous pile of ballast called a Model A. Piets are notoriously
> tail-heavy, so an ounce saved at the tail post is equivalent to a pound
> saved in the cockpit. Perhaps you can make a scarf joint sander like is
> shown in the EAA Wood aircraft construction techniques book to put the
> correct angle on the wood. Don't know, haven't gotten that far myself.
>
> Jack
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Lund [SMTP:crafters(at)elgin.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:55 PM
> > To: ragwing; piet aircamper; piet; 5k
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
> > sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
> > gutter!!!!!
> >
> > I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
> >
> > The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
> > angle
> > and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
> >
> > The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
> > together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
> > in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
> > absolutly
> > neccisary).
> >
> > Anybody got a third idea??????
> >
> > Mike
> > Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> > The more money you throw at them,
> > the faster they fly.
> >
> > IHA 110
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Thanks Joe...
How stupid can I be????
Get the angle +/- 0.25 degees (thats why the great god of manual drafting
made 18 " protractors;-) , its a gap filling glue, and the ply skin takes
the load anyway. this is just to hold it together while building.
Perfect.
THX
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>Mike,
> I was looking at some Ragwing plans and they suggest a third, pie shaped
>piece, same length as the side trussing, glued and clamped in the pie
shaped
>void. Now finding that angle...
>
>Joe
>
>
>>The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
>>angle
>>and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>>
>>The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
>>together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
>>in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
>>absolutly
>>neccisary).
>>
>>Anybody got a third idea??????
>>
>>Mike
>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>The more money you throw at them,
>>the faster they fly.
>>
>>IHA 110
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Mike,
Of course the thickness at the tail will be different than if you cut it
down. Might want to run this by those that have. I have not yet been
there, not yet done that, don't have a tshirt, but I'm working as fast as I
can (when I'm not being anal about choice of wood) :)
Joe
>From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:10:09 -0500
>
>
>Thanks Joe...
>
>How stupid can I be????
>
>Get the angle +/- 0.25 degees (thats why the great god of manual drafting
>made 18 " protractors;-) , its a gap filling glue, and the ply skin takes
>the load anyway. this is just to hold it together while building.
>
>Perfect.
>
>THX
>
>Mike
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Krzes <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:58 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
> >
> >Mike,
> > I was looking at some Ragwing plans and they suggest a third, pie
>shaped
> >piece, same length as the side trussing, glued and clamped in the pie
>shaped
> >void. Now finding that angle...
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
> >>The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
> >>angle
> >>and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
> >>
> >>The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
> >>together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts
>holes
> >>in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
> >>absolutly
> >>neccisary).
> >>
> >>Anybody got a third idea??????
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> >>The more money you throw at them,
> >>the faster they fly.
> >>
> >>IHA 110
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet"
Subject: | and I got it in the slot |
oh, man this place is starting to sound like my favorite bar....
Joe gave me a great idea... A pie shaped piece (15.1deg, which means 15 on
my saw.) glued to the inner gussets. WORKED PERFECT. its now drying. 2 1/2"
wide x 12" of spruce that I thought was scrap....
Now will you guys go out and have some fun so I can get rid of these
references????
For all the guys that asked offline, Thanks so much.
Dylan is home now, his lungs are OK at 3 weeks (not if he gets into dad's
stogies.....;-)
And I have now quit smoking in the house, down to 37 smokes the last 7 days
(nad counting down). Nothing like yer kids to make make ya realize how bad a
habit it is.
Mike
now if they ask me to give up beer.... who needs kids????
M
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
; piet ; 5k
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:46 PM
Subject: 5K I got it up !!!!!!!!
>5K - http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
>
>Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
>sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
>gutter!!!!!
>
>I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
>
>The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
angle
>and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>
>The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
>together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
>in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
absolutly
>neccisary).
>
>Anybody got a third idea??????
>
>Mike
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, write to fly5k-unsubscribe(at)listbot.com
>Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Mike:
I guess you're talking about the "mitre" cut you have to make to pull the
two sides together at the tail post?
I ran into that and simplypulled the two sides together and c-clamped them
touching each other. I then laid a straight piece of wood on top of the
intersection and drew two parallell lines as cutting guides,continuing then
down the tailpost(s) that would give me two parallel flat surfaces that
would mate up with each other (on the inside of each fuselage "slab"). Put
away your electric tools, now. The next step was to GENTLY and slowly cut
down through the tailpost area and follow the guidelines you drew. Use a
nice sharp handsaw. Cutting both sides gave me a perfectly parallel
surface on each side that mated up just right. Maybe I was just lucky but I
did go REALLY slow and deliberate to follow the lines.
Man I know my description is confusing.. heck I've confused myself!
T_88 fills really well and if necessary a little saw dust can be added in to
it for filler.
Just be sure and follow the lines carefully, if you ever get off the line
while sawing down through there it will be hard to correct.
I think they show that cut that way so that it will result in a 1" wide
tailpost. Makes a neater transition to the rudder. Oh well good luck.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
; "piet" ;
"5k"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
> Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
> sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
> gutter!!!!!
>
> I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
>
> The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
angle
> and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>
> The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
> together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
> in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
absolutly
> neccisary).
>
> Anybody got a third idea??????
>
> Mike
> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> The more money you throw at them,
> the faster they fly.
>
> IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Bert,
You did it exactly how I did it, execpt I couldn't describe it that well!
The only other thing I did was to cut slightly inside the lines to figure on
rough surfaces, and then " gently " clamp the tail posts together and run
very coarse sandpaper , back to back, in the slot , till the two sides came
together perfectly. Just bring in the clamps so the paper starts to cut.
Then when it stops cutting , tighten the clamps slightly, and cut again.
then etc. etc. etc. When done, they'll fit perfectly.
Sounds harder than it was. But a nice fit.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
>Mike:
>
>I guess you're talking about the "mitre" cut you have to make to pull the
>two sides together at the tail post?
>
>I ran into that and simplypulled the two sides together and c-clamped them
>touching each other. I then laid a straight piece of wood on top of the
>intersection and drew two parallell lines as cutting guides,continuing then
>down the tailpost(s) that would give me two parallel flat surfaces that
>would mate up with each other (on the inside of each fuselage "slab"). Put
>away your electric tools, now. The next step was to GENTLY and slowly cut
>down through the tailpost area and follow the guidelines you drew. Use a
>nice sharp handsaw. Cutting both sides gave me a perfectly parallel
>surface on each side that mated up just right. Maybe I was just lucky but
I
>did go REALLY slow and deliberate to follow the lines.
>
>Man I know my description is confusing.. heck I've confused myself!
>T_88 fills really well and if necessary a little saw dust can be added in
to
>it for filler.
>Just be sure and follow the lines carefully, if you ever get off the line
>while sawing down through there it will be hard to correct.
>I think they show that cut that way so that it will result in a 1" wide
>tailpost. Makes a neater transition to the rudder. Oh well good luck.
>Bert
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>To: "ragwing" ; "piet aircamper"
>; "piet" ;
>"5k"
>Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:55 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
>>
>> Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
>> sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
>> gutter!!!!!
>>
>> I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
>>
>> The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
>angle
>> and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>>
>> The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
>> together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts
holes
>> in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
>absolutly
>> neccisary).
>>
>> Anybody got a third idea??????
>>
>> Mike
>> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>> The more money you throw at them,
>> the faster they fly.
>>
>> IHA 110
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Cool!
I hadnt thought of the sandpaper. Great Idea!
Thats what makes this fun. see ya
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
> Bert,
> You did it exactly how I did it, execpt I couldn't describe it that well!
> The only other thing I did was to cut slightly inside the lines to figure
on
> rough surfaces, and then " gently " clamp the tail posts together and run
> very coarse sandpaper , back to back, in the slot , till the two sides
came
> together perfectly. Just bring in the clamps so the paper starts to cut.
> Then when it stops cutting , tighten the clamps slightly, and cut again.
> then etc. etc. etc. When done, they'll fit perfectly.
> Sounds harder than it was. But a nice fit.
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
> >
> >
> >Mike:
> >
> >I guess you're talking about the "mitre" cut you have to make to pull the
> >two sides together at the tail post?
> >
> >I ran into that and simplypulled the two sides together and c-clamped
them
> >touching each other. I then laid a straight piece of wood on top of the
> >intersection and drew two parallell lines as cutting guides,continuing
then
> >down the tailpost(s) that would give me two parallel flat surfaces that
> >would mate up with each other (on the inside of each fuselage "slab").
Put
> >away your electric tools, now. The next step was to GENTLY and slowly
cut
> >down through the tailpost area and follow the guidelines you drew. Use a
> >nice sharp handsaw. Cutting both sides gave me a perfectly parallel
> >surface on each side that mated up just right. Maybe I was just lucky
but
> I
> >did go REALLY slow and deliberate to follow the lines.
> >
> >Man I know my description is confusing.. heck I've confused myself!
> >T_88 fills really well and if necessary a little saw dust can be added in
> to
> >it for filler.
> >Just be sure and follow the lines carefully, if you ever get off the
line
> >while sawing down through there it will be hard to correct.
> >I think they show that cut that way so that it will result in a 1" wide
> >tailpost. Makes a neater transition to the rudder. Oh well good luck.
> >Bert
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> >To: "ragwing" ; "piet aircamper"
> >; "piet" ;
> >"5k"
> >Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:55 PM
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my
fuse
> >> sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
> >> gutter!!!!!
> >>
> >> I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
> >>
> >> The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
> >angle
> >> and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
> >>
> >> The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
> >> together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts
> holes
> >> in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
> >absolutly
> >> neccisary).
> >>
> >> Anybody got a third idea??????
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> >> The more money you throw at them,
> >> the faster they fly.
> >>
> >> IHA 110
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Subject: | Re: I got it up !!!!!!!! |
Mike- I did the exact same thing as Bert regarding the 2 parallel lines on
the top. But I also drew 2 vertical lines down the back of the tail post,
and used a reciprocating saw with a log cutting blade. Pretty rough, and I
left it a little wide. Then used a disk sander to make the two halves fit
perfectly. It really went better than I had expected, and looked nice when
done. I would be worried that if you used the "pie shaped" insert piece,
the tail would be wider for some length up the fuse. This might effect how
the stabilizer fits on it, also the tailwheel assembly.
Al Swanson
>
>
>Mike:
>
>I guess you're talking about the "mitre" cut you have to make to pull the
>two sides together at the tail post?
>
>I ran into that and simplypulled the two sides together and c-clamped them
>touching each other. I then laid a straight piece of wood on top of the
>intersection and drew two parallell lines as cutting guides,continuing then
>down the tailpost(s) that would give me two parallel flat surfaces that
>would mate up with each other (on the inside of each fuselage "slab"). Put
>away your electric tools, now. The next step was to GENTLY and slowly cut
>down through the tailpost area and follow the guidelines you drew. Use a
>nice sharp handsaw. Cutting both sides gave me a perfectly parallel
>surface on each side that mated up just right. Maybe I was just lucky but I
>did go REALLY slow and deliberate to follow the lines.
>
>Man I know my description is confusing.. heck I've confused myself!
>T_88 fills really well and if necessary a little saw dust can be added in to
>it for filler.
>Just be sure and follow the lines carefully, if you ever get off the line
>while sawing down through there it will be hard to correct.
>I think they show that cut that way so that it will result in a 1" wide
>tailpost. Makes a neater transition to the rudder. Oh well good luck.
>Bert
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>To: "ragwing" ; "piet aircamper"
>; "piet" ;
>"5k"
>Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 3:55 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: I got it up !!!!!!!!
>
>
>>
>> Now everybody who thought I was talking about anything other than my fuse
>> sides now being vertical in the jig, get your mind out of the
>> gutter!!!!!
>>
>> I have hit a "which is the best way" snag.
>>
>> The original piet and the GN-1 have the side trussing sanded/cut at an
>angle
>> and glued at the tailpost. pain in the.... to do.
>>
>> The flybaby uses a "U" shaped steel brace, and leave them square--tied
>> together with bolts. Piet idea is lighter, 'baby is simpler but puts holes
>> in a 3/4" structural member (not the best thing to be doing unless
>absolutly
>> neccisary).
>>
>> Anybody got a third idea??????
>>
>> Mike
>> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>> The more money you throw at them,
>> the faster they fly.
>>
>> IHA 110
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Which way to go snag |
Mike,
Yes, the "third idea" on fuselage truss build-up is to do it like the
WW-I era plane builders did: metal plates with 4 bolts per at each
longeron and truss intersection with wire bracing connecting to every
other set of plates in a cross triangular pattern to brace it all
together. Oh, yes, and a turnbuckle on EACH wire brace to be tightened
to the same degree as all the others. Ineffect the trusses just held
the longerons apart and the wires took the flying loads. No gluing of
the trusses to longerons was required or needed and no drilling of
holes in the longerons either.
As I recall, Pfalz and a few others thought this idea sucked and did it
other ways. Fokker couldn't make up his mind and used the wire bracing
even though he was into welded tubular fuselages. Bernie didn't have
such a bad idea after all, and cheaper too.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
A couple of questions about the dimensions for the tail feathers: Is the
trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer rounded like the leading edge or is
it squared like the main beam? Looks like the trailing edge of the
horizontal stab is considered "main beam" and is squared.
How about the tips of the horizontal stab and elevators - are they shaped
like the leading or trailing edges?
Thanks,
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Tom,
Funny you should ask! I've been building on these recently and Here is how
I interpret it:
Vertical Stab and Horizontal stab - all hinged surfaces square.
Inside elevator - square.
Vstab and hstab leading edge - round
Top of vstab, top and bottom rudder, outside of hstab, elevator all
round.
Rudder and Elevator Trailing edge - Best you can do streamline.
This isn't exactly how I built mine, but it's how I think you're supposed to
do it. Now, that said, you can build them just about any old way you want
to! I'm square and tapering on the top and bottom of the rudder and top of
the vstab.
Hope this helps some! Biggest thing, just settle on something and do it -
that makes it Yours!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Tom,
The trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer and the leading edge of the rudder
are both "main beams" and made to the same dimensions. This is also true of the
trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizer and the leading edge of the elevator.
Tip dimensions are faired from the main beam dimension to the trailing edge dimension
on the rudder and elevators and from the main beam dimension to the leading
edge dimension on the horizontal stabilizer.
Greg Cardinal
>>> 01/21 2:17 PM >>>
A couple of questions about the dimensions for the tail feathers: Is the
trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer rounded like the leading edge or is
it squared like the main beam? Looks like the trailing edge of the
horizontal stab is considered "main beam" and is squared.
How about the tips of the horizontal stab and elevators - are they shaped
like the leading or trailing edges?
Thanks,
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: aviation pictures |
No Piet pictures, but a fantastic gallery of mainly military aircraft, that I
came across and thought some of you might like
http://www.totavia.com/pacman/images/index.html
Henry Williams, working on ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Anyone building the tail feathers of the GN-1 let me know the demintions
of the ribs in the tails. The thinest pieces of wood that the fabric sits
against.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Can someone point me in the right direction/webpage to learn how to stich
the ribs? Or do yall goue the fabric on.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rib stiching. |
Steve, get the book and the video from Aircraft Spruce on the Stitts
process. It shows how to rib stitch. It's pretty easy to do but really
hard to explain. The pictures are worth the price.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
1117 SE 80th Street
Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib stiching.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction/webpage to learn how to stich
> the ribs? Or do yall goue the fabric on.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rib stiching. |
Steve,
Heres the straight poop...Get the Poly-fiber catalog from Aircraft Spruce
( or similar) it explains everything about covering up to painting. The best
$10.00 you'll ever spend.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib stiching.
>
>Can someone point me in the right direction/webpage to learn how to stich
>the ribs? Or do yall goue the fabric on.
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | EAA has a good deal on books |
The EAA web site has the Tony Bingelis books on
sale until the end of the month. The set of 4 is
about $60 for members. Look under monthly specials.
I ordered that and subscribed to experimenter today.
One thing that I found when bopping around the EAA
site were some homebuilding article reprints. The
Tony Bingelis article on Making Wood Wing Ribs from
the 2/94 Sport Aviation got my attention. I have been
worrying about the fit between the diagonals in the
ribs. His drawings and text indicate that almost all
of the strenght is in the gussets. I am still going to
go for decent joints but am not going to worry quite as
much about it now.
The article is at:
http://www.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/wood/bingelis_sa0294.html
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
for you fella's using douglass fir. do you use the
same specs as sitka spruce. max of 1/8 between growth
rings, end grain up to 30 degree angle, and no grain
runout on the length of it. And is it available locally?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"Ragwing" ,
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
Subject: | VROOM, VROOM, VROOM |
Well Guys, today, for the 1st time, I got into my airplane.
There is no seat yet, no skin, just a complete fuse truss--I just HAD to
climb in and stand roughly where the drivers chair will be going.
What a great feeling, more so because its my own design. And now that I have
the actual perspective from THE position, I can figure out exactly where to
put the bombsite
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: VROOM, VROOM, VROOM |
I remember my first time...It's a good feeling. Did ya cut yourself a
control stick and do turns and banks ?
Bomb site ?? I set mine up for rockets...
>From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Steve Williamson" , "Ragwing"
>, "piet aircamper"
>, "piet"
>, "5k"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: VROOM, VROOM, VROOM
>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:20:11 -0500
>
>
>Well Guys, today, for the 1st time, I got into my airplane.
>
>There is no seat yet, no skin, just a complete fuse truss--I just HAD to
>climb in and stand roughly where the drivers chair will be going.
>
>What a great feeling, more so because its my own design. And now that I
>have
>the actual perspective from THE position, I can figure out exactly where to
>put the bombsite
>
>Mike
>
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Subject: | LE and rib Question |
I cut out a set of rib gusset patterns based on the full size
rib pattern that comes with the plans. The intent was that
this would provide a cross check to my lofted rib pattern. I
lofted because the distance between the spars on the patter was
off by 1/8" and I wasn't too sure about the rest of it either.
Things were pretty good except at the LE. The wood that I got
from Western Aircraft includes 1"x2" for the leading edges. I
have not found the LE wood size called out on the plans except
for the 1" thickness. Nor did I find the rib LE angle called
out so I used the lofting points. My LE strip is just under
2" long so I figured that I was good with the plans. The
pattern LE measures at 1 5/8". Seems like a lot of difference
in size to me.
The questions:
What is the dimension of the LE stock? I am guessing 1x2 actual
is correct.
What is the angle of the LE 1/2" square capstrip as measured
from the lofting baseline?
Dave
Making progress, after all I only built the rib jig last April.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Leading Edge Dimensions |
Dave wrote asking:
"What is the dimension of the LE stock? I am guessing 1x2 actual
is correct."
"What is the angle of the LE 1/2" square capstrip as measured
from the lofting baseline?"
1) Use what is necessary to fit the LE as related to the rib
fixture you have made or will make.
2) Forget the angle, let the points as called out in the lofting
points for the rib be what you use.
With such a discrepancy between the pattern for the ribs and the
rib as defined by the loft points, use the loft points to make a
new rib fixture. Or, make everything fit the rib fixture you
already have, even if it is +/- 1/8".
Keep in mind that the "new" spar distance of + or - 1/8" carries
through to every other ajoining member in ribs, cabanes, ect.
Choose what ever is less confusing to you and remember, when you
fly over the crowd of onlookers 1500 feet below, they can't see
the difference between 1 5/8" ~ 2" or between 1/8" or not, they'll
only see your grin!
Rodger
Busy finishing up an 18 month project in 7 years.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Rudder bar bolt size |
Has anyone installed the rudder bar and pedestal assembly? I'm
wondering if the bolt brazed (welded, really) in the rudder
pedestal is REALLY supposed to be a 5/16 bolt. Drilling out the
3/8 OD piece of tubing that forms the pivot bushing in the rudder
bar to accomodate a 5/16 mounting bolt would only leave a wall
thickness of about 0.030" in the pivot bushing.
Doesn't seem like much for a part that needs to tolerate a fair
amount of abuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Hi Steve,
Get the book "How to Cover and Aircraft", put out by the Poly-Fiber company.
It's available from Wag-Aero or Aircraft Spruce (among others). I believe
the technique is also detailed in AC. 43.13 from the FAA. Everybody
homebuilder should have a copy of this book anyway. It is the Bible for
aircraft repair and construction. The FAA inspector should be able to se a
well used copy of it on your workbench when he comes to inspect your
project.
Jack
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vistin(at)juno.com [SMTP:vistin(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:34 PM
> To: pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com;
> fly5k(at)listbot.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib stiching.
>
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction/webpage to learn how to stich
> the ribs? Or do yall goue the fabric on.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar bolt size
>
>
>Has anyone installed the rudder bar and pedestal assembly? I'm
>wondering if the bolt brazed (welded, really) in the rudder
>pedestal is REALLY supposed to be a 5/16 bolt. Drilling out the
>3/8 OD piece of tubing that forms the pivot bushing in the rudder
>bar to accomodate a 5/16 mounting bolt would only leave a wall
>thickness of about 0.030" in the pivot bushing.
>
>Doesn't seem like much for a part that needs to tolerate a fair
>amount of abuse...
DON'T CHANGE IT. REPEAT, DON'T CHANGE IT.
I had a 1/4 in bolt in there for a few years. I was taxing out to the runway
at Glens Falls NY airport one day, & bam, the bolt parted. Another two
minuets and I would not be here now. Heck of a time taxing back to the ramp.
Speaking of the rudder bar. there is vertical play in the rudder bar due to
the central pivot point. To minimize it, I placed plastic strips under the
full length of the fore & aft seat stringers to decrease the gap between the
stringers & the rudder bar. This eliminated most of the play.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
Great! This is just the sort of information I was looking for. I don't
know how many hours you have on your plane, but have you noticed any wear on
the rudder bar pivot bushing?
-Bill
> From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar bolt size
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:39:28 -0500
>
>
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar bolt size
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Has anyone installed the rudder bar and pedestal assembly? I'm
> >wondering if the bolt brazed (welded, really) in the rudder
> >pedestal is REALLY supposed to be a 5/16 bolt. Drilling out the
> >3/8 OD piece of tubing that forms the pivot bushing in the rudder
> >bar to accomodate a 5/16 mounting bolt would only leave a wall
> >thickness of about 0.030" in the pivot bushing.
> >
> >Doesn't seem like much for a part that needs to tolerate a fair
> >amount of abuse...
>
> DON'T CHANGE IT. REPEAT, DON'T CHANGE IT.
>
> I had a 1/4 in bolt in there for a few years. I was taxing out to the runway
> at Glens Falls NY airport one day, & bam, the bolt parted. Another two
> minuets and I would not be here now. Heck of a time taxing back to the ramp.
>
> Speaking of the rudder bar. there is vertical play in the rudder bar due to
> the central pivot point. To minimize it, I placed plastic strips under the
> full length of the fore & aft seat stringers to decrease the gap between the
> stringers & the rudder bar. This eliminated most of the play.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Tom,
I agree that the plans aren't real clear here and I've seen different
Piets built differently. I decided to use leading edge all the way around
except for trailing edge and the main beam (of course). I haven't started
gluing yet, but I did rough cut all of the wood and bundled it so I now have
a tail kit ready to go. I still think this will work very well. The only
change I might consider is making the inboard edges of the elevators out of
main beam also. I also ordered all my leading edge material pre-shaped
"T-stringer" from Wicks. If you want to see my wood order and how I cut it,
go to this link:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~hjkr/building_log.htm
Joe
Is the
>trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer rounded like the leading edge or
>is
>it squared like the main beam? Looks like the trailing edge of the
>horizontal stab is considered "main beam" and is squared.
>
>How about the tips of the horizontal stab and elevators - are they shaped
>like the leading or trailing edges?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
>
>Great! This is just the sort of information I was looking for. I don't
>know how many hours you have on your plane, but have you noticed any wear
on
>the rudder bar pivot bushing?
>
>-Bill
>
Hi Bill:
Got about 300 hrs on Mr Sam. The pivot looked good when I did the last
annual.
Another thing Bill, I brought the rudder & tailwheel cables to the rudder
bar, rather than as indicated in the print
Mike B Piet N6897MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
Hi All
I was downstairs playing earlier, looking over the fuse and thinking what
needed doing next (O.K, so I was drinking beer in the shop ;-)
With the turning over and over to place the various fittings, I realized
what was needed was something like an engine stand, or the "rotiserie"
stands used for metal frames.
What I did was build a nose and tail one out of 2x3's and old castors. The
"firewall" one sits with a 26" sqaure piece of ply, and the fuse is friction
held by screwing some scrap pine sticks thru the ply thus clamping the front
posts.
The tail has a similar clamp-type setup made to fit. Both rotate on 1/4"
bolts on the center of the ply, with another going thru at the "bottom" for
a locking pin. "Bearing" is just a scap of 3/4" oak.
Only took 3 beers, ...er,...um, I meant a couple hours to build both, and
the only time I will need a helper to turn the fuse from here on in (I HATE
working sideways or upside-down) is to actually mount it on the stand.
Cost was about $25 for the pair if I'd had to buy the stuff now. (Thats
rougly what I spent on the stuff originally)
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
On the the 1967 improved plans, it seems that they
forgot the thickness of the fuse mounted motor mt
pieces. of course it could be there and I can't see
it.
what is everybody using?
del
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
Hey Guys.
As of today, the last gusset on the fuse is on, and the last clamp is
removed ;-)
Now, I have to fill in between all those gussets to get full-contact for the
ply skin.
Simplest (but not the lightest) seems to be just rip some of the 1/8" ply
(birch) into 3/4" strips and use that. That guarantees the thickness will be
right.
Anybody got a better idea???
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Hinchman" <mikehi(at)molalla.net> |
Subject: | Unwarping plywood nose blocks -- opinions needed |
Folks,
I need your informed opinions about something.
In the Fall of '98 I made a template and routed out all the rib nose blocks
for my Wagabond project. They are of 1/4 inch aircraft plywood. I then got
occupied with other things, so stored the finished nose blocks flat in a
cardboard box in an unheated area, but up off the concrete slab.
Just after this past Christmas I finally found time to get started building
ribs, only to discover that 18 of my nose blocks are somewhat warped. I
thought about just tossing them out, getting more plywood and routing a new
batch, but I didn't want to spend the money on more plywood if I can save
these. Here is what I thought of doing.
Layer up 5 or 6 nose blocks in a big sandwich, alternating with damp (not
soaking wet) paper towel between them and clamping the whole sandwich
between two blocks of 3/4 inch plywood. The company where I work has lots of
3/4 inch oak veneer plywood scrap, and it's furniture-grade wood (no voids)
and is tough stuff, not the crap you get at Mr. Plywood.
Then I'd build a baking box out of a cardboard box with a muffin fan in one
end and a couple of 75-watt bulbs inside, with an air exit on the other end.
Cook the clamped sandwich in the box at whatever temperature it reaches
(hopefully around 200 degrees) for a week or so and unclamp it.
Anyone think this will work to straighten out the nose blocks, or am I just
SOL? Any other ideas for straightening these blocks?
Thanks,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams) |
Subject: | Re: Whats Best??? |
Yea,
Don't put gussets on where it's is going to be plywood covered. The
plywood serves that purpose.
mailsorter-101-5.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-e/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)
From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
aircamper" , "piet" ,
"5k"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Whats Best???
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:58:25 -0500
Hey Guys.
As of today, the last gusset on the fuse is on, and the last clamp is
removed ;-)
Now, I have to fill in between all those gussets to get full-contact for the
ply skin.
Simplest (but not the lightest) seems to be just rip some of the 1/8" ply
(birch) into 3/4" strips and use that. That guarantees the thickness will be
right.
Anybody got a better idea???
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Subject: | Redder bar pivot bolt/ware |
I was worried about the rudder bar bushing warring on the pedestal mt.
so I brazed a 3/8 flat washer on the bottom of the rudder bar. This
makes for a larger ware surface between the bar and pedestal. Easy to
add a drop of oil on occasion. Leon Stefan Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
On my plans they are marked .090"
Greg Cardinal
>>> del magsam 01/24 4:58 PM >>>
On the the 1967 improved plans, it seems that they
forgot the thickness of the fuse mounted motor mt
pieces. of course it could be there and I can't see
it.
what is everybody using?
del
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Unwarping plywood nose blocks -- opinions needed |
What have you got to loose by trying to straiten them out? IMHO I would
certainly give your plan a try and see what happens. If it doesn't work,
cut new ones.
Ken
On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Michael Hinchman wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I need your informed opinions about something.
>
> Then I'd build a baking box out of a cardboard box with a muffin fan in one
> end and a couple of 75-watt bulbs inside, with an air exit on the other end.
> Cook the clamped sandwich in the box at whatever temperature it reaches
> (hopefully around 200 degrees) for a week or so and unclamp it.
>
> Anyone think this will work to straighten out the nose blocks, or am I just
> SOL? Any other ideas for straightening these blocks?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" , "5k"
Hi guys
I was down scratching the skull with the morning coffee, and had an idea.
The original floor design is placed under the lower x-braces and glued on
from underneath. This is how mine is sitting right now, but its just tacked
and clamped.
Hows about mounting it on TOP of the lower longerons and x-braces???
It would be a bit trickier to make and install (some detail cutting with the
dremmel would do the trick) and would require a few mounting blocks to be
installed for seats ect, but on the plus side, it would give fewer places
for moisture to accumulate, it would just run down the smooth floor and out
the drain holes by the pilots seat.
Or am I missing something?
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
Thanks a lot for posting that log file. It is really helpful. I
hope that you continue to document with this detail and share with the
list.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
I thought the same thing. Also, how about the ply sides on the inside.
Wouldn't this be just as strong and more likely to protect the pilot?
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Reading between the gussets |
Mike writes looking for a "better idea" to fill between the gussets.
Yes there is, and save some weight in the process; rip the 1/8" ply
into 5/16" strips and use that. Glue and tack with SMALL brads
sparingly. You've got the right idea, something has to go on the
longerons between the gussets to give a proper fitting covering.
Of course, this applies to the longerons behind the rear seat. The
plywood sides and bottom must be in full contact with the longerons
and braces.
Then when you bolt the metal fittings to the upper longerons you will
find you'll have to use this same idea of a strip of wood to raise the
covering above the height of the bolt head. And then taper it down to
the surface of the plywood, at the rear of the cockpit, over some
reasonable distance of 6" to 12".
As for putting the plywood sides on the inside of the longerons, maybe.
This will effectivly reduce the cockpit width by 2", and possiably
cause routing problems for the rear cockpit throttle cable, and
instrument wiring and cables.
About putting in the plywood flooring on the top side of the longerons,
lots of luck. Maybe not impossable but close to it. Remember the KISS
method, Keep It Simple Stu---(Guys). Besides, put the floor board on
first and then lap the sides over the bottom, making them flush with
the bottom ply.
Now about the idea to make a mount to hold the fuselage so it could be
turned to a convient position to work on. NOW THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!
Rodger
gettin' close to finishing the wing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Reading between the gussets |
>
>Yes there is, and save some weight in the process; rip the 1/8" ply
>into 5/16" strips and use that. Glue and tack with SMALL brads
>sparingly. You've got the right idea, something has to go on the
>longerons between the gussets to give a proper fitting covering.
>
>Of course, this applies to the longerons behind the rear seat. The
>plywood sides and bottom must be in full contact with the longerons
>and braces.
>
>Then when you bolt the metal fittings to the upper longerons you will
>find you'll have to use this same idea of a strip of wood to raise the
>covering above the height of the bolt head. And then taper it down to
>the surface of the plywood, at the rear of the cockpit, over some
>reasonable distance of 6" to 12".
Thanks- One of those obvious things where I can see the forest for the
trees.
>As for putting the plywood sides on the inside of the longerons, maybe.
>This will effectivly reduce the cockpit width by 2", and possiably
>cause routing problems for the rear cockpit throttle cable, and
>instrument wiring and cables.
>
>About putting in the plywood flooring on the top side of the longerons,
>lots of luck. Maybe not impossable but close to it. Remember the KISS
>method, Keep It Simple Stu---(Guys). Besides, put the floor board on
>first and then lap the sides over the bottom, making them flush with
>the bottom ply.
I actually tried it with a cardboard mock-up of the ply. It'll ONLY work if
the firewall is not on yet, but then it is just a matter of some EXACT
cutting, feeding it in thru the front at an angle and lay it flat. I figure
on 15-20 hrs to do the cutting/sanding that exact, plus wrecked pieces. I
will try it with one, and if that fails the wrecked pice becomes bulkhead
material and back to the old way.
>Now about the idea to make a mount to hold the fuselage so it could be
>turned to a convient position to work on. NOW THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.
Works Great, except I got rid of the tail support and just have my workmate
about 1/3 if the way foreward from the tailpost. Much easier to just grab
and turn, and no need to ply areound with locking pins under a loaded mount
(which didnt work so well--to much flex in the wood)
>Rodger
>gettin' close to finishing the wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Graham Hanson's Piet and also it's sister ship has the ply on the inside(of
the sides).
Doug Hunt
----------
> From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Floor
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 11:53 AM
>
>
> I thought the same thing. Also, how about the ply sides on the inside.
> Wouldn't this be just as strong and more likely to protect the pilot?
> Howdy
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James F. Cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Continental A-65 |
I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a Replicraft Quick Build
Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental A-65. Do any of you
know where I might find such an engine? Thank you, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65 |
I have 3 Continental A-65-8's. They start at $3000.00 and go up to $5500.
I know there are some out there that are cheaper, but you usually have to
have them rebuilt and end up with more in it than you first think. One
engine has 65 hours SMOH, another has 170 hours and the last has over 800
hours I think.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
1117 SE 80th Street
Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
From: James F. Cooper <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65
>
> I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a Replicraft Quick Build
> Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental A-65. Do any of you
> know where I might find such an engine? Thank you, Jim Cooper
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Subject: | Continental A-65 |
Nope. I have seen many advertised at various times on the net. Just takes
some digging.
Good Luck,
steveee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James F.
Cooper
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65
I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a Replicraft Quick Build
Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental A-65. Do any of you
know where I might find such an engine? Thank you, Jim Cooper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65 |
i to am looking for A-65 or 85 for use in my Piet project
thanks for any leads
regards,
Mike Sublett
>From: "James F. Cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65
>Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:00 -0800
>
>
>
>I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a Replicraft Quick Build
>Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental A-65. Do any of you
>know where I might find such an engine? Thank you, Jim Cooper
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65 |
i to am looking for A-65 or 85 for use in my Piet project
thanks for any leads
regards,
Mike Sublett
>From: "James F. Cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65
>Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:00 -0800
>
>
>
>I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a Replicraft Quick Build
>Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental A-65. Do any of you
>know where I might find such an engine? Thank you, Jim Cooper
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Continental A-65 |
this guy had a couple (rebuilders) dvstarr(at)aol.com .
he's located in mpls mn.
--- mike sublett wrote:
>
>
> i to am looking for A-65 or 85 for use in my Piet
> project
>
> thanks for any leads
>
> regards,
>
> Mike Sublett
>
>
> >From: "James F. Cooper" <blugoos1(at)bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-65
> >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:00 -0800
> >
> Cooper"
> >
> >
> >I'm looking into building a Pietenpol using a
> Replicraft Quick Build
> >Kit, and am hoping to power it with a Continental
> A-65. Do any of you
> >know where I might find such an engine? Thank you,
> Jim Cooper
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
I'm trying to weld the "t-shaped" landing gear members for the bungees-type
gears on my Grega. Per the plans. Some of you may have run into this
problem, too.
The upper arm is .75 -.049 tubing. the lower arm is .875 - .035 tubing
(note it's ID is plenty). The upper arm is supposed to telescope (slide)
into the lower one. Small cross members are welded on both lower and upper
arms about 5 inches or so apart to form a "T" on each member. The bungees
then wrap around the T's providing a telescoping unit that ties the axle to
the bottom of the fuse (OK , sort of, this is getting too hard to
describe).
Herein lies the problem.
I am welding with Acetylene torch, so when I weld the T"s unto the LOWER
leg (you know the bigger one that the smaller slides into), the slag(?)
accumulates just enough on the inside to prohibit the upper leg from sliding
freely. I'm not a bad welder so I feel like I am not putting too much heat
into the tubing. It just seems that there should be a better way.
Is there any sort of reamer that would be wide enough to run down through it
(kind a like Roto Rooter for homebuilts) after the welding is complete?
Could a machine shop do this.
Would it be better to wire weld this part?
I could just make it a FIXED gear Grega......
Thanks for the help,
bert
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
You can ream it, but you remove a lot of metal in the area that you least
want to -- adjacent to the weld. The best thing to do is put a piece of
the smaller tubing inside before you weld (usually a scrap piece, but not
necessarily) After welding, the inside tube comes out, and the slag is not
built up to where it will keep the next tube from sliding in. If you have
already done all welding and do not want to redo, take a piece of welding
rod and crimp it around a strip of coarse sandpaper. Chuck the welding rod
in a hand drill and go at it. You will eventually ream out the slag.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
I used a brake cylinder hone in mine to clean them up as i recall.
Doug Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>I'm trying to weld the "t-shaped" landing gear members for the bungees-type
>gears on my Grega. Per the plans. Some of you may have run into this
>problem, too.
>
>The upper arm is .75 -.049 tubing. the lower arm is .875 - .035 tubing
>(note it's ID is plenty). The upper arm is supposed to telescope (slide)
>into the lower one. Small cross members are welded on both lower and upper
>arms about 5 inches or so apart to form a "T" on each member. The bungees
>then wrap around the T's providing a telescoping unit that ties the axle to
>the bottom of the fuse (OK , sort of, this is getting too hard to
>describe).
>
>Herein lies the problem.
>
>I am welding with Acetylene torch, so when I weld the T"s unto the LOWER
>leg (you know the bigger one that the smaller slides into), the slag(?)
>accumulates just enough on the inside to prohibit the upper leg from
sliding
>freely. I'm not a bad welder so I feel like I am not putting too much heat
>into the tubing. It just seems that there should be a better way.
>
>Is there any sort of reamer that would be wide enough to run down through
it
>(kind a like Roto Rooter for homebuilts) after the welding is complete?
>Could a machine shop do this.
>Would it be better to wire weld this part?
>I could just make it a FIXED gear Grega......
>
>Thanks for the help,
>bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear |
legs.
I had the same problem with the slag. If I remember correctly I just used a
round bastard and worked with it until it was free to slide as intended. I
don't think a rigid gear is a good ideal. Unless you can make perfect
landings each and every time. When the power is cut it drops like a rock. I
know I have felt the gear flex more than once. I think a few landings like
that with a rigid gear the attach points would start to get loose.jas
>
>I'm trying to weld the "t-shaped" landing gear members for the bungees-type
>gears on my Grega. Per the plans. Some of you may have run into this
>problem, too.
>
>The upper arm is .75 -.049 tubing. the lower arm is .875 - .035 tubing
>(note it's ID is plenty). The upper arm is supposed to telescope (slide)
>into the lower one. Small cross members are welded on both lower and upper
>arms about 5 inches or so apart to form a "T" on each member. The bungees
>then wrap around the T's providing a telescoping unit that ties the axle to
>the bottom of the fuse (OK , sort of, this is getting too hard to
>describe).
>
>Herein lies the problem.
>
>I am welding with Acetylene torch, so when I weld the T"s unto the LOWER
>leg (you know the bigger one that the smaller slides into), the slag(?)
>accumulates just enough on the inside to prohibit the upper leg from sliding
>freely. I'm not a bad welder so I feel like I am not putting too much heat
>into the tubing. It just seems that there should be a better way.
>
>Is there any sort of reamer that would be wide enough to run down through it
>(kind a like Roto Rooter for homebuilts) after the welding is complete?
>Could a machine shop do this.
>Would it be better to wire weld this part?
>I could just make it a FIXED gear Grega......
>
>Thanks for the help,
>bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" ,
"piet aircamper" ,
"5k"
Hi Guys
I am now building my turtledeck and need to plan ahead, but have never tried
what I am doing.
That "what" is I modified the original single-curve shape to get a headrest.
To save a bit of weight I would like to just do it "single layer" stringer
but I dont know if the fabric can be made to work.
Can I just run the stringers from bulkead #1 to #2 in the dual curve shape
then continue with the single curve from #2 back, or do I have to do the
single curve and fabric it, then do the headrest.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Jim,
I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your plane
you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more I
think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
surface runways.
Thanks!
Gary M.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
> I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your
plane
>you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
>the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
I have ridden, raced, abused and beat-up motorcyles since I was 12. Sarted
with a little Honda "minni-bike" (damn, I'd like ta have that thing again
;-) Low riders, Cafe racers, hogs (best I ever had was a GSXR) ... the tires
can can take it. I have never had a blow-out. The side-load theory is
(*&
%$.
Just what do you think is happening to that tire in a 150mph curve on a
600#machine with 200# of rider and 30# of fuel ????. Bends,
yes..flexes...yes. blows out...not unless its defective. How bout
potholes???, road breaks???? HARD breaking???? (DONT touch that front
lever....)
On the otherhand, these morons in 4 wheel vehicals that dont see a
rider....2 hits was enough, I quit riding, but I trust the parts completly.
> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more
I
>think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
>sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
>surface runways.
Ever seen a hard driven bike on grass???. Blacktop is what those tires were
deisgned for.
I am using old honda wheels, hubs and brakes, spoked (prob old CB350 or 450)
and if I hit hard enough to break a wheel, I will be to busy healing to
care.
Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last thing ya
want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel.
just my .02
Mike
>
>Thanks!
>Gary M.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Everett Perkins" <ev(at)clinic.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"5k"
Mike, I did my turtle back with white ceder strips over one inch blue foam
formers. There is a slight reverse curve behind the pilots head, done by
cutting the top center ceder strip from a wider strip with a band saw. (or a
hand held saber saw) The whole assembly including the ply end caps foam and
strips was about two pounds if memory serves me. Very strong by the way. I
have not yet covered but the plan is to stitch. Ev rws #306
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
piet aircamper ; 5k
Subject: RW: Fabric Work
> Hi Guys
>
> I am now building my turtledeck and need to plan ahead, but have never
tried
> what I am doing.
>
> That "what" is I modified the original single-curve shape to get a
headrest.
> To save a bit of weight I would like to just do it "single layer" stringer
> but I dont know if the fabric can be made to work.
>
> Can I just run the stringers from bulkead #1 to #2 in the dual curve shape
> then continue with the single curve from #2 back, or do I have to do the
> single curve and fabric it, then do the headrest.
>
> Mike
> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> The more money you throw at them,
> the faster they fly.
>
> IHA 110
>
> This list is provided as a service to RagWing builders and the members
> of the list are responsible for their own comments.
> Archived on eScribe at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/rb/
> To unsubscribe send mail to ragwing-requests(at)lists.zyx.net and include
> unsubscribe ragwing as the body.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs |
Conoly writes about a welding problem with the landing gear legs.
The "ring" of extra metal that you are seeing when looking down the
welded tube is showing you that you have good weld penetration.
It's something that you want to see. Good, now the next thing to do
is to run a reamer down the tube to clean it up to allow the other
member to slide freely. If you don't have a reamer of the correct size
and length to do this then visit a nearby machine shop and ask them
to do it. Shouldn't cost too much and your smile will return.
Rodger
Workin' on the wing, still.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Straight axel L.G. |
Mike wrote:
"Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last
thing ya want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel."
Ahhhh, things begin to come clear, long grass, wheat, corn, ect. and
a straight axel... Now I understand the meaning of the term "Improved"
landing gear. (Get the tractor and shredder out guys.)
Kinda like landing "across" the furrows of a plowed field. =8<
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear |
legs.
Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern. I think it is the width
of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is the concern. The side
loading that the wheels have to endure on landings that are less than
perfect. If you never drift on landing the motorcycle wheels would be just
fine. Also the axle size will be something to consider. The axle should be
no less than 1 inch. in dia. My axle is 1 inch. But if I hadn't already had
wheels and axle I would have used 1 1/4 inch dia. axles. jas
>
>Jim,
>
> I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your plane
>you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
>the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
>
> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more I
>think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
>sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
>surface runways.
>
>Thanks!
>Gary M.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Straight axel L.G. |
Long grass ain't nothing. Ask Austin at FlaBob about how to taxi into the
water
faucet hidden in the grass with straight axle landing gear....and it wasn't even
all
that tall!
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Straight axel L.G. |
I dunno, I kinda like a view of the world inverted.
But, there is a place and time for everything
And a field aint the place.
(damn, I miss that citabria)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel L.G.
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Mike wrote:
>
>"Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last
>thing ya want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel."
>
>Ahhhh, things begin to come clear, long grass, wheat, corn, ect. and
>a straight axel... Now I understand the meaning of the term "Improved"
>landing gear. (Get the tractor and shredder out guys.)
>
>Kinda like landing "across" the furrows of a plowed field. =8<
>
>Rodger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gearlegs. |
Hi Jim,
Have some Honda 90 trail bike front wheels, converted to 9 gauge stainless
steel spokes (36, good for 1000 lbs. each) at Buchanans, with a 5/8 solid
axle,with Dunlop 100/90 17 tires, good for 130 mph at 480 lbs each when hot. At
40 mph cold, they are good for over 1000 lbs. each.
Had some similar concerns and solved my "mental problems" with these
experiments. Take both your 1" tube axle and a 5/8 solid axle and put them
securely in a vice. Borrow your brother-in-laws torque wrench (use my own?!)
and make up a bolt and/or nut fixture so that you can torque over each of these
axles and see which one goes first.
For side loads, go to a motocross ralley sometime and watch what these 200
lb. guys do to the one (1) front wheel of a 500 lb bike going 2-3 times as fast
as you will ever land a piet. The spoke guys at Buchanan's laughingly suggest
to
me that if I was able to fold over these spoke and rim assemblies, my post
hospital rehab would be of much more concern.
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Using motorcycle wheels is fine EXCEPT they do not have enough "dish" for
much side load. Spacing the bearings and the spoke flanges farther apart
solves the problem
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern. I think it is the width
>of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is the concern. The side
>loading that the wheels have to endure on landings that are less than
>perfect. If you never drift on landing the motorcycle wheels would be just
>fine. Also the axle size will be something to consider. The axle should be
>no less than 1 inch. in dia. My axle is 1 inch. But if I hadn't already had
>wheels and axle I would have used 1 1/4 inch dia. axles. jas
>
>
>>
>>Jim,
>>
>> I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your
plane
>>you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
>>the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
>>
>> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more
I
>>think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
>>sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
>>surface runways.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Gary M.
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Mike,
I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by a
woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross when I
was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate too
see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of airplane
on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps in
this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead would
do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold up
if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to wonder
if they're up to that or not
The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very much
impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you look
at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a road-race
bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk of
the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing, how
much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass and
nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of it's
life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after landing,
to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface the
spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
rubber.
But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
Two more cents.
Gary M.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Subject: | My web site is back up. |
Some of you wanted to see my plane and website. I have returned it to the
net. Be aware that it is somewhat out of date, but there is some info on my
plane there that might be of interest.
The new site name is:
http://Aircamper.byu.edu
Steve Eldredge
NX7229R
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Ah, Gary...
Lets get a couple of GSXR 1100's.....Or a Yamaha's ...or just good old fat
boys. I'll show ya how to put side loads on tires. On gravel roads....and
run so fast the boys with the flahsers dont even dream of keeping up.
Flash foreward, wife and kids, and I am building the slowest thing in the
sky....but give me 2 wheels agian....
Old enough to know better,
too young to care.
(Dad, at 73. got an 883 sportster for his last birthday. HIS last bike was a
'33 dkw )
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>Mike,
>
>I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by a
>woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
>motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
>
> I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross when
I
>was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate too
>see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of airplane
>on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps
in
>this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead would
>do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold up
>if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
>aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to wonder
>if they're up to that or not
>
> The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
>sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very much
>impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you look
>at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a
road-race
>bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk of
>the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing, how
>much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass
and
>nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of
it's
>life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after landing,
>to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface the
>spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
>runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
>
> Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
>Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
>style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
>themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
>rubber.
>
> But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
>wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
>
>Two more cents.
>
>Gary M.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Guys with flashers |
Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers and I
and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them still
ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't keep
up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think how
many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if needed
and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up with
normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun part
of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
balloon 800 x 4's.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
1117 SE 80th Street
Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
> Ah, Gary...
>
> Lets get a couple of GSXR 1100's.....Or a Yamaha's ...or just good old
fat
> boys. I'll show ya how to put side loads on tires. On gravel roads....and
> run so fast the boys with the flahsers dont even dream of keeping up.
>
> Flash foreward, wife and kids, and I am building the slowest thing in the
> sky....but give me 2 wheels agian....
>
> Old enough to know better,
> too young to care.
>
> (Dad, at 73. got an 883 sportster for his last birthday. HIS last bike was
a
> '33 dkw )
>
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
>
> >
> >Mike,
> >
> >I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by
a
> >woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
> >motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
> >
> > I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross
when
> I
> >was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate
too
> >see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of
airplane
> >on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps
> in
> >this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead
would
> >do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold
up
> >if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
> >aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to
wonder
> >if they're up to that or not
> >
> > The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
> >sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very
much
> >impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you
look
> >at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a
> road-race
> >bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk
of
> >the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing,
how
> >much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass
> and
> >nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of
> it's
> >life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after
landing,
> >to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface
the
> >spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
> >runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
> >
> > Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
> >Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
> >style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
> >themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
> >rubber.
> >
> > But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
> >wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
> >
> >Two more cents.
> >
> >Gary M.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Tim Cunningham wrote:
>
> Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers and I
> and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them still
> ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't keep
> up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think how
> many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if needed
> and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up with
> normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun part
> of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
> but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
> balloon 800 x 4's.
> Copinfo(at)home.com
> Tim Cunningham
I've been watching the Paris Ducar rally over the past couple of evenings.
Consistently, over the long runs, the bikes are off the pace of the "cars"
(actually, the cars are more like SUV's) by a significant amount. I was
rather suprised by this!
Back to Piets... The wheels that these guys use take an awful beating over
the course. 10' drops are seen quite often and yes, the entire bike
sometimes lands sideways and on one wheel similar to the described
crosswind landing! Granted, the weight is probably about half of a loaded
Piet but the speed is around the 130-150 kph or around 2-3 times that of
the Piet. They may be worth a look. SpeedVision has been carrying the
races all this week.
Speaking of SpeedVision...I saw an interesting show last night called
"Airshow World". It looks to be a weekly show on SpeedVision. Anyway, they
were visiting the Shuttleworth Air Museum in England where they specialize
in planes dating from 1909 to 1940. THe currently have the oldest flying
airplane in exsistance, a 1909 Bleriot, I believe it was.
Anyway, as they progressed through the collection they came to Miles
Aircraft's first plane, a biplane designed for racing in the early 20's.
They are still restoring the plane and they were talking to the engineer
coordinating the rebuild. He said that the original was covered in Irish
linen but due to the cost, they were using American Ceconite. That was all
well and good until he went on to say that one of the Ceconite's
advantages was it's light weight of only 5 POUNDS PER SQUARE YARD!!! Now
let's see, am I going to end up with a 450 lb covering job (5 lbs x 45
liniar yards x 2 yards wide). If so, I may need a second Franklin ;-). I
suspect that he had the decimal place wrong and it was POINT 5 lbs/sq. yd.
45 lbs seems more realistic.
Anyway, if you happen to see the show listed, it's well worth watching.
Here, it's on SpeedVision on Wednesday nights along with Sport Flying
(EAA's video magazine), Planes of Fame, World of Flying and Wings! I
generally don't get much done on Wednesday nights ;-)
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: My web site is back up. |
Steve:
Can you please tell me what you used for your lift struts? I have asked
but either you havent seen my emails or sumpin!!
Steve
>
>
> Some of you wanted to see my plane and website. I have returned it
> to the
> net. Be aware that it is somewhat out of date, but there is some
> info on my
> plane there that might be of interest.
>
> The new site name is:
>
> http://Aircamper.byu.edu
>
> Steve Eldredge
> NX7229R
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
Tim, way back when....
us and the local cops had an agreement. we promised not to drive drunk, keep
our antics to the back roads in the middle of nowhere...
and they agreed not to shoot us for playing.
How times have changed. Old buddy, a 35 year vet of the local cops (and an
emeraude driver) quit in disgust of the crap. We used to have some fun, went
fast, but nobody got hurt.
If the bike wreked, it sure as hell wasnt becouse he got rammed.
Today, its a jailable offence. and my 3 year old boy will never know the
pure joy of firing up a gass guzzling, atmosphere poluting machine....and
just going. F)()*
$ the cops, )(*(&
%the law. Freedom on 2 wheels.
He will never have that freedom, and as I build this airplane, I really
wonder if he will ever get to ride in it, or should I just torch it now.
Before that is legislated away from us.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Cunningham <copinfo(at)home.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers and
I
>and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them still
>ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't keep
>up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think how
>many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if needed
>and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up with
>normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun part
>of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
>but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
>balloon 800 x 4's.
>Copinfo(at)home.com
>Tim Cunningham
>1117 SE 80th Street
>Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 4:06 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
>>
>> Ah, Gary...
>>
>> Lets get a couple of GSXR 1100's.....Or a Yamaha's ...or just good old
>fat
>> boys. I'll show ya how to put side loads on tires. On gravel
roads....and
>> run so fast the boys with the flahsers dont even dream of keeping up.
>>
>> Flash foreward, wife and kids, and I am building the slowest thing in the
>> sky....but give me 2 wheels agian....
>>
>> Old enough to know better,
>> too young to care.
>>
>> (Dad, at 73. got an 883 sportster for his last birthday. HIS last bike
was
>a
>> '33 dkw )
>>
>> Mike
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Mike,
>> >
>> >I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by
>a
>> >woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
>> >motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
>> >
>> > I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross
>when
>> I
>> >was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate
>too
>> >see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of
>airplane
>> >on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire
clamps
>> in
>> >this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead
>would
>> >do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold
>up
>> >if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
>> >aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to
>wonder
>> >if they're up to that or not
>> >
>> > The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
>> >sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very
>much
>> >impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you
>look
>> >at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a
>> road-race
>> >bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk
>of
>> >the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing,
>how
>> >much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass
>> and
>> >nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of
>> it's
>> >life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after
>landing,
>> >to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface
>the
>> >spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
>> >runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
>> >
>> > Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
>> >Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
>> >style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
>> >themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
>> >rubber.
>> >
>> > But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
>> >wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
>> >
>> >Two more cents.
>> >
>> >Gary M.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
Mike C.
You know, hearing you talk about your exploits reminds me of what my
brother who was a cop for 20 years, he always said, "You may outrun my
motor, but you won't outrun my Motorola!" I tried to outrun a Texas State
Trooper one time when I was young and dumb, I was on a dirt bike and was
doing good until I fouled a plug. I got caught, he ended-up letting me go,
cause we were way out in the boonies, and I had an 8 mile hike to get home.
Did a lot of thinking that day. Didn't do it again!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
On a 1-1 basis, a lot of the county mounties are decent guys. The comes
the )(*&&
%$$ RCMP, FBI, CIA and all the other nazi's.
Well, they can KMA (kiss my ass)... as for the county guys...
I feel like a run... there's a pot of chillie on, and a case of beer
chilling.
anybody want to play????
M
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>Mike C.
>
> You know, hearing you talk about your exploits reminds me of what my
>brother who was a cop for 20 years, he always said, "You may outrun my
>motor, but you won't outrun my Motorola!" I tried to outrun a Texas State
>Trooper one time when I was young and dumb, I was on a dirt bike and was
>doing good until I fouled a plug. I got caught, he ended-up letting me go,
>cause we were way out in the boonies, and I had an 8 mile hike to get home.
>Did a lot of thinking that day. Didn't do it again!
>
>Gary
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Thanks, guys, for the responses!
I've got several good ideas here. Once this CCCOOLLDD weather moves on off
(the southeast is about to take a hit and we are not used to this), I will
get back out in the shop and try them. I'll have those bungees working in a
couple weeks. See Ya, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
> You can ream it, but you remove a lot of metal in the area that you least
> want to -- adjacent to the weld. The best thing to do is put a piece of
> the smaller tubing inside before you weld (usually a scrap piece, but not
> necessarily) After welding, the inside tube comes out, and the slag is
not
> built up to where it will keep the next tube from sliding in. If you have
> already done all welding and do not want to redo, take a piece of welding
> rod and crimp it around a strip of coarse sandpaper. Chuck the welding
rod
> in a hand drill and go at it. You will eventually ream out the slag.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Txgroup(at)home.com |
for" ;
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 01/27/00 |
remove
Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> *
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 01/27/00: 22
>
> From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear
> legs.
>
>
> I had the same problem with the slag. If I remember correctly I just used a
> round bastard and worked with it until it was free to slide as intended. I
> don't think a rigid gear is a good ideal. Unless you can make perfect
> landings each and every time. When the power is cut it drops like a rock. I
> know I have felt the gear flex more than once. I think a few landings like
> that with a rigid gear the attach points would start to get loose.jas
>
> >
> >I'm trying to weld the "t-shaped" landing gear members for the bungees-type
> >gears on my Grega. Per the plans. Some of you may have run into this
> >problem, too.
> >
> >The upper arm is .75 -.049 tubing. the lower arm is .875 - .035 tubing
> >(note it's ID is plenty). The upper arm is supposed to telescope (slide)
> >into the lower one. Small cross members are welded on both lower and upper
> >arms about 5 inches or so apart to form a "T" on each member. The bungees
> >then wrap around the T's providing a telescoping unit that ties the axle to
> >the bottom of the fuse (OK , sort of, this is getting too hard to
> >describe).
> >
> >Herein lies the problem.
> >
> >I am welding with Acetylene torch, so when I weld the T"s unto the LOWER
> >leg (you know the bigger one that the smaller slides into), the slag(?)
> >accumulates just enough on the inside to prohibit the upper leg from sliding
> >freely. I'm not a bad welder so I feel like I am not putting too much heat
> >into the tubing. It just seems that there should be a better way.
> >
> >Is there any sort of reamer that would be wide enough to run down through it
> >(kind a like Roto Rooter for homebuilts) after the welding is complete?
> >Could a machine shop do this.
> >Would it be better to wire weld this part?
> >I could just make it a FIXED gear Grega......
> >
> >Thanks for the help,
> >bert
> >
> >
>
> From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> "piet" ,
> "piet aircamper" ,
> "5k"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fabric Work
>
>
> Hi Guys
>
> I am now building my turtledeck and need to plan ahead, but have never tried
> what I am doing.
>
> That "what" is I modified the original single-curve shape to get a headrest.
> To save a bit of weight I would like to just do it "single layer" stringer
> but I dont know if the fabric can be made to work.
>
> Can I just run the stringers from bulkead #1 to #2 in the dual curve shape
> then continue with the single curve from #2 back, or do I have to do the
> single curve and fabric it, then do the headrest.
>
> Mike
> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> The more money you throw at them,
> the faster they fly.
>
> IHA 110
>
> From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> Jim,
>
> I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your plane
> you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
> the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
>
> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more I
> think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
> sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
> surface runways.
>
> Thanks!
> Gary M.
>
> From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> > I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your
> plane
> >you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
> >the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
>
> I have ridden, raced, abused and beat-up motorcyles since I was 12. Sarted
> with a little Honda "minni-bike" (damn, I'd like ta have that thing again
> ;-) Low riders, Cafe racers, hogs (best I ever had was a GSXR) ... the tires
> can can take it. I have never had a blow-out. The side-load theory is
> (*&
%$.
>
> Just what do you think is happening to that tire in a 150mph curve on a
> 600#machine with 200# of rider and 30# of fuel ????. Bends,
> yes..flexes...yes. blows out...not unless its defective. How bout
> potholes???, road breaks???? HARD breaking???? (DONT touch that front
> lever....)
>
> On the otherhand, these morons in 4 wheel vehicals that dont see a
> rider....2 hits was enough, I quit riding, but I trust the parts completly.
>
> > I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more
> I
> >think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
> >sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
> >surface runways.
>
> Ever seen a hard driven bike on grass???. Blacktop is what those tires were
> deisgned for.
>
> I am using old honda wheels, hubs and brakes, spoked (prob old CB350 or 450)
> and if I hit hard enough to break a wheel, I will be to busy healing to
> care.
>
> Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last thing ya
> want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel.
>
> just my .02
>
> Mike
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Gary M.
> >
> >
>
> From: "Everett Perkins" <ev(at)clinic.net>
> "piet aircamper" ,
> "5k"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fabric Work
>
>
> Mike, I did my turtle back with white ceder strips over one inch blue foam
> formers. There is a slight reverse curve behind the pilots head, done by
> cutting the top center ceder strip from a wider strip with a band saw. (or a
> hand held saber saw) The whole assembly including the ply end caps foam and
> strips was about two pounds if memory serves me. Very strong by the way. I
> have not yet covered but the plan is to stitch. Ev rws #306
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> piet aircamper ; 5k
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:18 AM
> Subject: RW: Fabric Work
>
> > Hi Guys
> >
> > I am now building my turtledeck and need to plan ahead, but have never
> tried
> > what I am doing.
> >
> > That "what" is I modified the original single-curve shape to get a
> headrest.
> > To save a bit of weight I would like to just do it "single layer" stringer
> > but I dont know if the fabric can be made to work.
> >
> > Can I just run the stringers from bulkead #1 to #2 in the dual curve shape
> > then continue with the single curve from #2 back, or do I have to do the
> > single curve and fabric it, then do the headrest.
> >
> > Mike
> -
> > Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> > The more money you throw at them,
> > the faster they fly.
> >
> > IHA 110
> >
> > This list is provided as a service to RagWing builders and the members
> > of the list are responsible for their own comments.
> > Archived on eScribe at http://www.escribe.com/aviation/rb/
> > To unsubscribe send mail to ragwing-requests(at)lists.zyx.net and include
> > unsubscribe ragwing as the body.
>
> From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs
>
>
> Conoly writes about a welding problem with the landing gear legs.
>
> The "ring" of extra metal that you are seeing when looking down the
> welded tube is showing you that you have good weld penetration.
> It's something that you want to see. Good, now the next thing to do
> is to run a reamer down the tube to clean it up to allow the other
> member to slide freely. If you don't have a reamer of the correct size
> and length to do this then visit a nearby machine shop and ask them
> to do it. Shouldn't cost too much and your smile will return.
>
> Rodger
> Workin' on the wing, still.
>
> From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel L.G.
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>
> "Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last
> thing ya want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel."
>
> Ahhhh, things begin to come clear, long grass, wheat, corn, ect. and
> a straight axel... Now I understand the meaning of the term "Improved"
> landing gear. (Get the tractor and shredder out guys.)
>
> Kinda like landing "across" the furrows of a plowed field. =8<
>
> Rodger
>
> From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear
> legs.
>
>
> Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern. I think it is the width
> of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is the concern. The side
> loading that the wheels have to endure on landings that are less than
> perfect. If you never drift on landing the motorcycle wheels would be just
> fine. Also the axle size will be something to consider. The axle should be
> no less than 1 inch. in dia. My axle is 1 inch. But if I hadn't already had
> wheels and axle I would have used 1 1/4 inch dia. axles. jas
>
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> > I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your plane
> >you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
> >the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
> >
> > I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more I
> >think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
> >sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
> >surface runways.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Gary M.
> >
> >
>
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel L.G.
>
>
> Long grass ain't nothing. Ask Austin at FlaBob about how to taxi into the
water
> faucet hidden in the grass with straight axle landing gear....and it wasn't even
all
> that tall!
> Warren.
>
> From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel L.G.
>
>
> I dunno, I kinda like a view of the world inverted.
>
> But, there is a place and time for everything
>
> And a field aint the place.
>
> (damn, I miss that citabria)
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel L.G.
>
> <childsway@indian-creek.net>
> >
> >Mike wrote:
> >
> >"Now, overall design... I am going to use the scout-type. The last
> >thing ya want in a taildragger is hit long grass with a cross axel."
> >
> >Ahhhh, things begin to come clear, long grass, wheat, corn, ect. and
> >a straight axel... Now I understand the meaning of the term "Improved"
> >landing gear. (Get the tractor and shredder out guys.)
> >
> >Kinda like landing "across" the furrows of a plowed field. =8<
> >
> >Rodger
> >
> >
>
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gearlegs.
>
>
> Hi Jim,
> Have some Honda 90 trail bike front wheels, converted to 9 gauge stainless
> steel spokes (36, good for 1000 lbs. each) at Buchanans, with a 5/8 solid
> axle,with Dunlop 100/90 17 tires, good for 130 mph at 480 lbs each when hot.
At
> 40 mph cold, they are good for over 1000 lbs. each.
> Had some similar concerns and solved my "mental problems" with these
> experiments. Take both your 1" tube axle and a 5/8 solid axle and put them
> securely in a vice. Borrow your brother-in-laws torque wrench (use my own?!)
> and make up a bolt and/or nut fixture so that you can torque over each of these
> axles and see which one goes first.
> For side loads, go to a motocross ralley sometime and watch what these 200
> lb. guys do to the one (1) front wheel of a 500 lb bike going 2-3 times as fast
> as you will ever land a piet. The spoke guys at Buchanan's laughingly suggest
to
> me that if I was able to fold over these spoke and rim assemblies, my post
> hospital rehab would be of much more concern.
> Warren.
>
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> Using motorcycle wheels is fine EXCEPT they do not have enough "dish" for
> much side load. Spacing the bearings and the spoke flanges farther apart
> solves the problem
>
> Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
> (Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
> >
> >Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern. I think it is the width
> >of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is the concern. The side
> >loading that the wheels have to endure on landings that are less than
> >perfect. If you never drift on landing the motorcycle wheels would be just
> >fine. Also the axle size will be something to consider. The axle should be
> >no less than 1 inch. in dia. My axle is 1 inch. But if I hadn't already had
> >wheels and axle I would have used 1 1/4 inch dia. axles. jas
> >
> >
>
> >>
> >>Jim,
> >>
> >> I read your comments on the gear with great interest. I know on your
> plane
> >>you have the split gear and regular tires. Based on your experience would
> >>the motorcyle type tires be tough enough to handle the abuse?
> >>
> >> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the more
> I
> >>think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make more
> >>sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
> >>surface runways.
> >>
> >>Thanks!
> >>Gary M.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by a
> woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
> motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
>
> I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross when I
> was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate too
> see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of airplane
> on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps in
> this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead would
> do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold up
> if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
> aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to wonder
> if they're up to that or not
>
> The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
> sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very much
> impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you look
> at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a road-race
> bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk of
> the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing, how
> much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass and
> nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of it's
> life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after landing,
> to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface the
> spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
> runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
>
> Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
> Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
> style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
> themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
> rubber.
>
> But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
> wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
>
> Two more cents.
>
> Gary M.
>
> From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: My web site is back up.
>
>
> Some of you wanted to see my plane and website. I have returned it to the
> net. Be aware that it is somewhat out of date, but there is some info on my
> plane there that might be of interest.
>
> The new site name is:
>
> http://Aircamper.byu.edu
>
> Steve Eldredge
> NX7229R
>
> From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> Ah, Gary...
>
> Lets get a couple of GSXR 1100's.....Or a Yamaha's ...or just good old fat
> boys. I'll show ya how to put side loads on tires. On gravel roads....and
> run so fast the boys with the flahsers dont even dream of keeping up.
>
> Flash foreward, wife and kids, and I am building the slowest thing in the
> sky....but give me 2 wheels agian....
>
> Old enough to know better,
> too young to care.
>
> (Dad, at 73. got an 883 sportster for his last birthday. HIS last bike was a
> '33 dkw )
>
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
>
> >
> >Mike,
> >
> >I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by a
> >woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
> >motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
> >
> > I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross when
> I
> >was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate too
> >see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of airplane
> >on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps
> in
> >this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead would
> >do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold up
> >if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
> >aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to wonder
> >if they're up to that or not
> >
> > The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
> >sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very much
> >impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you look
> >at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a
> road-race
> >bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk of
> >the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing, how
> >much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass
> and
> >nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of
> it's
> >life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after landing,
> >to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface the
> >spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
> >runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
> >
> > Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
> >Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
> >style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
> >themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
> >rubber.
> >
> > But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
> >wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
> >
> >Two more cents.
> >
> >Gary M.
> >
> >
>
> From: "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>
> Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers and I
> and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them still
> ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't keep
> up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think how
> many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if needed
> and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up with
> normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun part
> of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
> but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
> balloon 800 x 4's.
> Copinfo(at)home.com
> Tim Cunningham
> 1117 SE 80th Street
> Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
> >
> > Ah, Gary...
> >
> > Lets get a couple of GSXR 1100's.....Or a Yamaha's ...or just good old
> fat
> > boys. I'll show ya how to put side loads on tires. On gravel roads....and
> > run so fast the boys with the flahsers dont even dream of keeping up.
> >
> > Flash foreward, wife and kids, and I am building the slowest thing in the
> > sky....but give me 2 wheels agian....
> >
> > Old enough to know better,
> > too young to care.
> >
> > (Dad, at 73. got an 883 sportster for his last birthday. HIS last bike was
> a
> > '33 dkw )
> >
> > Mike
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary Meadows <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Mike,
> > >
> > >I agree with you on the 4-wheel drivers, my brother was almost killed by
> a
> > >woman who was meesing with her kids and not looking for riders on
> > >motorcycles. I gave up streetbikes a long time ago!
> > >
> > > I have seen a lot of cycle action, though. I used to race motocross
> when
> > I
> > >was younger, and yes, those tires do take a lot of abuse, But I'd hate
> too
> > >see one of my old knobbies if I hit the concrete with 1200 lbs of
> airplane
> > >on one wheel in a crosswind! I also don't have tire screws or tire clamps
> > in
> > >this plane, I had those on my race bikes, so who knows what that bead
> would
> > >do given enough pressure I wonder how well A Harley's tires would hold
> up
> > >if you dropped it straight down 5 or 6 feet onto concrete? Certificated
> > >aircraft and their tires have to sustain a 10 foot fall, I've got to
> wonder
> > >if they're up to that or not
> > >
> > > The loads you mentioned were load imposed in a building manner, not a
> > >sudden shock like a botched landing would be. I doubt if there is very
> much
> > >impact pressure on a 150 MPH street tire. As far as side loads, if you
> look
> > >at the way a motorcycle turns, there is little side load even on a
> > road-race
> > >bike. To turn one of those, you have to lean the bike over, so the bulk
> of
> > >the weight is still pushed straight up though the tire. Another thing,
> how
> > >much tread is on the ground on cycle tires vs aircraft type tired? Grass
> > and
> > >nostalgia are nice, but the reality is, my plane will spend most all of
> > it's
> > >life on hard-surface runways, and I like directional control after
> landing,
> > >to me more rubber can only help. I also think that given a soft surface
> the
> > >spoke wheels/cycle tires might be better than "regular" tires on a soft
> > >runway, although, they'd tend to sink in worse.
> > >
> > > Anyway, cycle tires will probably do the job, maybe they won't. I know
> > >Air-Hawks or Flight Customs will, and I feel like some of the 4-wheeler
> > >style tires will, too, I'm not really worried about the spoked wheels
> > >themselves being able to take the load, just that skinny little strip of
> > >rubber.
> > >
> > > But even given all those arguments, I'm still considering the spoke
> > >wheels/cycle tires - they just look soooo cool!
> > >
> > >Two more cents.
> > >
> > >Gary M.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> Subject: ###Re: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Tim Cunningham wrote:
>
> >
> > Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers and
I
> > and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them still
> > ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't keep
> > up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think how
> > many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if needed
> > and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up with
> > normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun part
> > of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
> > but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
> > balloon 800 x 4's.
> > Copinfo(at)home.com
> > Tim Cunningham
>
> I've been watching the Paris Ducar rally over the past couple of evenings.
> Consistently, over the long runs, the bikes are off the pace of the "cars"
> (actually, the cars are more like SUV's) by a significant amount. I was
> rather suprised by this!
>
> Back to Piets... The wheels that these guys use take an awful beating over
> the course. 10' drops are seen quite often and yes, the entire bike
> sometimes lands sideways and on one wheel similar to the described
> crosswind landing! Granted, the weight is probably about half of a loaded
> Piet but the speed is around the 130-150 kph or around 2-3 times that of
> the Piet. They may be worth a look. SpeedVision has been carrying the
> races all this week.
>
> Speaking of SpeedVision...I saw an interesting show last night called
> "Airshow World". It looks to be a weekly show on SpeedVision. Anyway, they
> were visit
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Motorcycle Wheels |
From: | Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com> |
Fellow Listers,
Use motorcycle wheels if you like the looks, big fat tires if you
don't, both will be fine. The Pietenpol I'm flying now was built by
the Hostein Bros. of Ontario Canada in 1972 and has in excess of 1200
hours on it. It has split gear and fat tires. My friend Brian Kenney
has been flying since 1983 from a paved airport with Honda rear wheels
and straight axle gear. No problems whether pavement or grass. Brian
says you can't tell the difference.
The Piet I'm building (should fly this summer then the other will be
for sale) will have wires on straight gear like Brian's. I have sketches
I made and a narrative of his wheel and brake set up for anyone who wants
it just send me your snail mail off list.
As far as the side loading concerns there is a straight axle,
motorcycle wheeled Model A Piet hereabouts that had engine trouble on a
test flight and landed hard sideways on one wheel and the wing tip
breaking the fuselage at the gear attach points plus other damage (the
pilot walked away) and the motorcycle wheel rim became decidedly S shaped
but did not collapse!
There has been so much conjecture for so many years about what does
and doesn't work. Shouldn't we base our opinions on real-world
experience? IMHO, keep it simple, keep it light and Follow The Plans!
Off the soapbox,
Tom
> I had thought about going with straight axle/spoked wheels, but the
>more I
>think about it, the better the split/ballon type tire seems to make
>more
>sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a steady diet of hard
>
>surface runways.
>Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern. I think it is the
>width
>of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is the concern. The
>side
>loading that the wheels have to endure on landings that are less than
>perfect. If you never drift on landing the motorcycle wheels would be
>just
>fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lawrence V Williams <lnawms(at)juno.com> |
Please UNSUBSCRIBE me. For the past several months I have been laboring
under the misconception that this was a Pietenpol BUILDERS list.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Lawrence,
I think the way that's quickest way to unsubscribe is by going to:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Then you can just follow the directions that they have there.
Good Luck,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
just what happens when it's too cold for builders to build, they just start
to BS. Finish your plane, fly the heck out of it and sit back and enjoy the
rest just talkin.
Steve E.
PS. Thinking Model A Sedan would be a cool restoration project....
Please UNSUBSCRIBE me. For the past several months I have been laboring
under the misconception that this was a Pietenpol BUILDERS list.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Wheels |
Tom,
Could you please send me your narrative of the wheels? My address is:
Tom Travis
13532 Braemar Drive
Dallas, Texas 75234
Thanks,
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Subject: | Steve E's Lift Struts |
For the record agian :)
My lift struts are an aluminum extrusion from a local company that
discontinued them as part of a prototype chair line they were going to do.
A fellow working at the chair and table company happened to show them to me
and I used them for struts. Unfortunatly the only other set was given away
as well, and I haven't been able to find any more.
Stevee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Wheels |
I would also appreciate the sketches and narrative of
the landing gear and wheels. My S-Mail address is:
William J. Hutson
9961B Sturgis Ave.
Ellsworth AFB SD 57706
Thanks! Bye the way what does "IMHO" stand for?
Bill
IHA #7
--- Thomas E Bowdler wrote:
> Bowdler
>
> Fellow Listers,
> Use motorcycle wheels if you like the looks,
> big fat tires if you
> don't, both will be fine. The Pietenpol I'm
> flying now was built by
> the Hostein Bros. of Ontario Canada in 1972 and has
> in excess of 1200
> hours on it. It has split gear and fat tires. My
> friend Brian Kenney
> has been flying since 1983 from a paved airport with
> Honda rear wheels
> and straight axle gear. No problems whether
> pavement or grass. Brian
> says you can't tell the difference.
> The Piet I'm building (should fly this summer
> then the other will be
> for sale) will have wires on straight gear like
> Brian's. I have sketches
> I made and a narrative of his wheel and brake set up
> for anyone who wants
> it just send me your snail mail off list.
> As far as the side loading concerns there is a
> straight axle,
> motorcycle wheeled Model A Piet hereabouts that had
> engine trouble on a
> test flight and landed hard sideways on one wheel
> and the wing tip
> breaking the fuselage at the gear attach points plus
> other damage (the
> pilot walked away) and the motorcycle wheel rim
> became decidedly S shaped
> but did not collapse!
> There has been so much conjecture for so many
> years about what does
> and doesn't work. Shouldn't we base our opinions on
> real-world
> experience? IMHO, keep it simple, keep it light and
> Follow The Plans!
> Off the soapbox,
> Tom
>
> > I had thought about going with straight
> axle/spoked wheels, but the
> >more I
> >think about it, the better the split/ballon type
> tire seems to make
> >more
> >sense. Especially since I'll be feeding my plane a
> steady diet of hard
> >
> >surface runways.
> >Gary I don't think that the tires are the concern.
> I think it is the
> >width
> >of the bearing area on motorcycle wheels that is
> the concern. The
> >side
> >loading that the wheels have to endure on landings
> that are less than
> >perfect. If you never drift on landing the
> motorcycle wheels would be
> >just
> >fine.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
Ken,
When they said 5 pounds per yard, being England, they were probably talking
price.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 6:45 PM
Subject: ###Re: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Tim Cunningham wrote:
>
>>
>> Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers
and I
>> and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them
still
>> ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't
keep
>> up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think
how
>> many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if
needed
>> and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up
with
>> normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun
part
>> of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
>> but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
>> balloon 800 x 4's.
>> Copinfo(at)home.com
>> Tim Cunningham
>
>I've been watching the Paris Ducar rally over the past couple of evenings.
>Consistently, over the long runs, the bikes are off the pace of the "cars"
>(actually, the cars are more like SUV's) by a significant amount. I was
>rather suprised by this!
>
>Back to Piets... The wheels that these guys use take an awful beating over
>the course. 10' drops are seen quite often and yes, the entire bike
>sometimes lands sideways and on one wheel similar to the described
>crosswind landing! Granted, the weight is probably about half of a loaded
>Piet but the speed is around the 130-150 kph or around 2-3 times that of
>the Piet. They may be worth a look. SpeedVision has been carrying the
>races all this week.
>
>Speaking of SpeedVision...I saw an interesting show last night called
>"Airshow World". It looks to be a weekly show on SpeedVision. Anyway, they
>were visiting the Shuttleworth Air Museum in England where they specialize
>in planes dating from 1909 to 1940. THe currently have the oldest flying
>airplane in exsistance, a 1909 Bleriot, I believe it was.
>
>Anyway, as they progressed through the collection they came to Miles
>Aircraft's first plane, a biplane designed for racing in the early 20's.
>They are still restoring the plane and they were talking to the engineer
>coordinating the rebuild. He said that the original was covered in Irish
>linen but due to the cost, they were using American Ceconite. That was all
>well and good until he went on to say that one of the Ceconite's
>advantages was it's light weight of only 5 POUNDS PER SQUARE YARD!!! Now
>let's see, am I going to end up with a 450 lb covering job (5 lbs x 45
>liniar yards x 2 yards wide). If so, I may need a second Franklin ;-). I
>suspect that he had the decimal place wrong and it was POINT 5 lbs/sq. yd.
>45 lbs seems more realistic.
>
>Anyway, if you happen to see the show listed, it's well worth watching.
>Here, it's on SpeedVision on Wednesday nights along with Sport Flying
>(EAA's video magazine), Planes of Fame, World of Flying and Wings! I
>generally don't get much done on Wednesday nights ;-)
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Steve E's Lift Struts |
Snif! Thanks Steveee.
>
>
> For the record agian :)
>
> My lift struts are an aluminum extrusion from a local company that
> discontinued them as part of a prototype chair line they were going
> to do.
> A fellow working at the chair and table company happened to show
> them to me
> and I used them for struts. Unfortunatly the only other set was
> given away
> as well, and I haven't been able to find any more.
>
>
> Stevee
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Guys with flashers |
That very well could have been as the comment was something like "it's
lightweight [at / and] only 5 lbs per pound. Could easily have been
either.
Ken
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, walter evans wrote:
>
> Ken,
> When they said 5 pounds per yard, being England, they were probably talking
> price.
> walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 6:45 PM
> Subject: ###Re: Pietenpol-List: Guys with flashers
>
>
> >
> >On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Tim Cunningham wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Mike I couldn't help commenting. I'm one of those guy's with flashers
> and I
> >> and bunch of my cohorts have spent our time on bikes and many of them
> still
> >> ride their Harley's. I've never had anyone go so fast that I wouldn't
> keep
> >> up. Never lost a chase in my 30 years of police work. I hate to think
> how
> >> many squad cars I wrecked, but everyone was caught, hospitalized if
> needed
> >> and jailed. Now I fly the Piet, low and slow and I can't even keep up
> with
> >> normal freeway traffic. At least there's no police brutality (the fun
> part
> >> of the job) when I land. Seriously, I like the look of motorcyle wheels,
> >> but some of the places I've landed just wouldn't do. I'll stick with my
> >> balloon 800 x 4's.
> >> Copinfo(at)home.com
> >> Tim Cunningham
> >
> >I've been watching the Paris Ducar rally over the past couple of evenings.
> >Consistently, over the long runs, the bikes are off the pace of the "cars"
> >(actually, the cars are more like SUV's) by a significant amount. I was
> >rather suprised by this!
> >
> >Back to Piets... The wheels that these guys use take an awful beating over
> >the course. 10' drops are seen quite often and yes, the entire bike
> >sometimes lands sideways and on one wheel similar to the described
> >crosswind landing! Granted, the weight is probably about half of a loaded
> >Piet but the speed is around the 130-150 kph or around 2-3 times that of
> >the Piet. They may be worth a look. SpeedVision has been carrying the
> >races all this week.
> >
> >Speaking of SpeedVision...I saw an interesting show last night called
> >"Airshow World". It looks to be a weekly show on SpeedVision. Anyway, they
> >were visiting the Shuttleworth Air Museum in England where they specialize
> >in planes dating from 1909 to 1940. THe currently have the oldest flying
> >airplane in exsistance, a 1909 Bleriot, I believe it was.
> >
> >Anyway, as they progressed through the collection they came to Miles
> >Aircraft's first plane, a biplane designed for racing in the early 20's.
> >They are still restoring the plane and they were talking to the engineer
> >coordinating the rebuild. He said that the original was covered in Irish
> >linen but due to the cost, they were using American Ceconite. That was all
> >well and good until he went on to say that one of the Ceconite's
> >advantages was it's light weight of only 5 POUNDS PER SQUARE YARD!!! Now
> >let's see, am I going to end up with a 450 lb covering job (5 lbs x 45
> >liniar yards x 2 yards wide). If so, I may need a second Franklin ;-). I
> >suspect that he had the decimal place wrong and it was POINT 5 lbs/sq. yd.
> >45 lbs seems more realistic.
> >
> >Anyway, if you happen to see the show listed, it's well worth watching.
> >Here, it's on SpeedVision on Wednesday nights along with Sport Flying
> >(EAA's video magazine), Planes of Fame, World of Flying and Wings! I
> >generally don't get much done on Wednesday nights ;-)
> >
> >Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> >Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> >Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> ><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | robin goodfellow <pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com> |
does anyone know where you can get a
aluminum Ford "A" head? Jim Hammond asked me to post
this so either contact him or
me if you know where to buy one
or have one you want to sell. Thanks.
_danbadger
IHA #111
EAA #613769
AMA #668066
"KEEP THE ANTIQUES FLYING"
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conrad, Bart D" <Bart.Conrad(at)NA.BOEING.COM> |
Subject: | MOTORCYCLE WHEEL SKETCHES |
I'd like a copy of the subject sketches mentioned by Tom Bowdler. My E-mail
is bart.conrad(at)na.boeing.com Thanks, Bart
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Got to
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
and smile again!
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet"
Subject: | Turtledeck Stringers |
What is everybody using for thier stringers. 1/4" x 1" seems a bit heafty. I
was thinking along the lines of 3/4" x 1/4" ceder.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Wheels |
Tom,
I'd really like to have a copy of the drawings you mentioned showing wheel
and brakes on the straight-axle Piet. My address is:
Don Cooley
2745 Laurel Dr.
Fairfield, CA94533
I'll cheerfully re-imburse any cost you incur. Thanks for your help.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Stringers |
what do the plans say. I think its clearly marked.
--- Mike Lund wrote:
>
>
> What is everybody using for thier stringers. 1/4" x
> 1" seems a bit heafty. I
> was thinking along the lines of 3/4" x 1/4" ceder.
>
> Mike
> Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> The more money you throw at them,
> the faster they fly.
>
> IHA 110
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Warren:
Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and glueing
something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own streamlined
tubine??
Steve
writes:
>
>
>
> Got to
> http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>
> and smile again!
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Stringers |
That's what I used 1/4 X 3/4. It's a little week in the middle, and you
certainly can't sit on the Turtle deck just aft of the pilot's seat. To
circumvent this problem Brian Kenney suggested I use 1/6 ply glued to the
top of the stringers and sandwich this with light corrugated cardboard. Boy
did this ever stiffen that area. Sitting was no problemo after that. I took
the cardboard all the way to the first bay aft of the pilots' seat. I closed
the end. Added a lockable door on the pilots' seat back and used the
compartment for my goggles, gloves or anything else I wanted to lock away.
Brian's suggestion was a result of a little damage from something inside the
glove box, that hit the fabric on a hard landing. This sure works for me.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Sure. The old timers used balsa wood and wrapped the strut with lite
weight fabric, dope and painted it. Personally, for that much time, labor
and materials, I would rather go dumpster diving for cans and buy one of
these alum. struts...{;~)
Warren
vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Warren:
> Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and glueing
> something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own streamlined
> tubine??
>
> Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
I used the stuts from Sky-tek, very economical.
Doug Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>Warren:
>Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and glueing
>something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own streamlined
>tubine??
>
>Steve
>
>writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> Got to
>> http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>>
>> and smile again!
>> Cheers,
>> Warren
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "SAM & JAN MARINUCCI" <srmjem(at)ezol.com> |
Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of 4130
steel struts?
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>
>Got to
>http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>
>and smile again!
>Cheers,
>Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Stringers |
Mike,i used the 1/4x3/4,and just behind the pilot,i wrapped a fairly wide
stip of 3/32 okume(spelling?)marine mahogany,you can sit on it witout even a
creek,will send you a pic directly.
Doug Hunt.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtled
>
>What is everybody using for thier stringers. 1/4" x 1" seems a bit heafty.
I
>was thinking along the lines of 3/4" x 1/4" ceder.
>
>Mike
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
If they are sized right even wood will work. Stinson uses Aluminum struts,
Luscombe used aluminum struts, even Cessna uses aluminum struts. I probably
missed some as well.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI <srmjem(at)ezol.com>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of 4130
>steel struts?
> Sam
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:34 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>
>>
>>
>>Got to
>>http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>>
>>and smile again!
>>Cheers,
>>Warren
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ron Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Wheels |
Tom...
Sounds like your ideas on motorcycle wheels has some interest. If you would
mail me (i.e. snail mail) a copy of your sketches, I'd be glad to scan them
and re-post them for all to see.
Ron Butcher
406 N. Gratton Rd
Turlock, Ca 95380
TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Could you please send me your narrative of the wheels? My address is:
>
> Tom Travis
> 13532 Braemar Drive
> Dallas, Texas 75234
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Tom
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Wheels |
>
> Thanks! Bye the way what does "IMHO" stand for?
>
> Bill
> IHA #7
> In My Humble Opinion
JoeC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re: Lift Struts -Center Section?? |
These look promising for wing struts but the engineer comes out in me..
1) What about for the centersection struts?? If they'll work for highly
loaded wing struts (handling cantilever loads) shouldnt they easily handle
centersection loads, too. Hmmm.
2) Are the allowable tensil and compressive loads on these the same as
(or close to) that of 4130? Does anybody have this data? Looks like the
jury struts would take care of any stiffness problems.
3) What about the attach points? On my Grega plans it shows some of the
attach points on the ends of the struts that are steel bushings with a strap
bent over the bushing and welded to the strut. No way to weld aluminimum to
steel bushings, so I assume that some sort of bushing assembly would just be
bolted to the aluminum strut on the ends???
4) Can these be painted or powder coated the same as steel. I guess so??
Is corrosion any more or less a concern than rust would be on steel
struts?
5) I am concerned about bolt hole elongation, cracking or weakening if
you have to bolt as in 3 above..
Does anybody else wonder about these things?
Thanks, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>
> Got to
> http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>
> and smile again!
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Price heads??? |
In a message dated 1/28/00 3:26:07 PM Central Standard Time,
pietenpolsrule(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< does anyone know where you can get a
aluminum Ford "A" head? Jim Hammond asked me to post
this so either contact him or
me if you know where to buy one
or have one you want to sell. Thanks.
_danbadger >>
I just called them 2 days age, and they told me the aluminum head wouldn't be
available till march. He said lots of people want's 'em.
Their name is:
Daniel R. Price
7320 Sunbury Rd.
Westerville, OH 43081-9403
(614) 891-2882
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Subject: | Landing gear attach to axle |
Question for the group-
I am building a modified Cub split gear, and am to the point where I need to
attach the "suspension" spring struts to the axle. I milled a slot in the
stut, and then welded a .090 U-shaped fitting in the slot, as per the plans.
I think I have 2 choices:
1. Use a 5/16 bolt through the brace that is welded between the gear leg
and the axle.
2. Use a 5/16 bolt through the axle, with the strut fitting connected to
this bolt. Would the strength of the bolt be strong enough without bending?
I have seen it done both ways, but am wondering about the opinions from you
experts if there are advantages to one or the other.
Thanks!
Al Swanson
swans071(at)tc.umn.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Fat Tires al ...la... kitfox |
I have been looking into the fat tire idea as used by Leon Stefon on his
Piet. And I think that I have found a source of 20x7x8 smooth Kitfox tires
as he told us about in in the one page flyer he sent around.
Today I wrote dresser tire, and received an e-mail reply.
Sales(at)Dresser.com
said they could supply the 20x7x8 tires for 69.95 each...smooth, and
shippment would be about 3 days.
For anyone interested in fat air wheel type tyres, this may be it.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fat Tires al ...la... kitfox |
How bout wheels??
writes:
>
>
> I have been looking into the fat tire idea as used by Leon Stefon on
> his
> Piet. And I think that I have found a source of 20x7x8 smooth Kitfox
> tires
> as he told us about in in the one page flyer he sent around.
>
> Today I wrote dresser tire, and received an e-mail reply.
>
> Sales(at)Dresser.com
>
> said they could supply the 20x7x8 tires for 69.95 each...smooth, and
>
> shippment would be about 3 days.
>
> For anyone interested in fat air wheel type tyres, this may be it.
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rib stiching. |
Steve,
I wouldn't glue the fabric to the ribs, but would rib lace it. Rib
lacing is not all that hard to do, but it is hard to explain. I owned a
dope and fabric shop years ago and have done several wings, but everytime
I do it again I get out my A.C. 43.13-1a, chapter 1 and look at the
picture again. Buy this book (there are others that show the same
picture) and follow the illustration. I used to hire a helper and could
stitch a Piper wing in about a day or less.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Whats Best??? |
Mike,
Don't glue gussets onto the joints that are to be covered with a plywood
skin. This skin itself will become the gusset. Gussets still need to be
glued on the inside though, so that there is a gusset on both sides.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Tom,
The leading of the tail control surfaces and trailing edges of the
stabilizers, the parts that face each other and are hinged, are the same.
They are tee shaped and are not rounded. The leading edge of the
stabilizers are rounded off and the trailing edges of the control
surfaces are shaped like a rounded arrow head. Orin Hoopman's plans show
the cross sectional shape of these members. Just make the edges and
trailing edges streamlined when assembled and you will be alright.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,
I think you might run into problems with the flight control system if
you glue the floorboard on top the members. The aileron bellcrank is
stopped by the floorboard according to the plans and you would lose an
inch and a half this way. Also, the side mounted interconnect tube
between the front and aft joy stick has clearance problems with the front
seat diagonal braces -- at least our's did.
It does sound like an interesting idea though. Our fuselage is all but
complete and there is one of those ash cross supports for the landing
gear where my heels would hit when I work the rudder bar. I've sat in
the seat a lot and worked the rudder bar and I don't think ( I hope
anyway) that this will be a problem, but it has given me some concern.
Glueing the plywood on top would give a nice smooth floor inside. I
don't know that dirt or water accumulation would be all that much of a
problem. It's normal to vacuum out the floor of a plane during
inspections and it would be best to make cockpit covers to close the
plane when parked outside if it should rain.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: VROOM, VROOM, VROOM |
Great feeling, isn't it?
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>Well Guys, today, for the 1st time, I got into my airplane.
>
>There is no seat yet, no skin, just a complete fuse truss--I just HAD
>to
>climb in and stand roughly where the drivers chair will be going.
>
>What a great feeling, more so because its my own design. And now that
>I have
>the actual perspective from THE position, I can figure out exactly
>where to
>put the bombsite
>
>Mike
>
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
Don't change the plans, follow the directions. I keep hearing
complaints about the plans and don't know what all the problems are
about. We've found very few mistakes or omissions. Also, the pivot bolt
should be brazed in place, not welded.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>
>Has anyone installed the rudder bar and pedestal assembly? I'm
>wondering if the bolt brazed (welded, really) in the rudder
>pedestal is REALLY supposed to be a 5/16 bolt. Drilling out the
>3/8 OD piece of tubing that forms the pivot bushing in the rudder
>bar to accomodate a 5/16 mounting bolt would only leave a wall
>thickness of about 0.030" in the pivot bushing.
>
>Doesn't seem like much for a part that needs to tolerate a fair
>amount of abuse...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
I have seen some of yalls planes with tail wheels, and some with tail
skids. What do yall preferr. I am building the GN-1 and want some
feedback on what is better, (tail wheel or tail skid, Locked or
freewheeling).
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Cunningham" <copinfo(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tail wheel?? |
I have the Scott 2000, but any tailwheel should do. I couldn't imagine
trying to taxi with a skid. I guess if you want you could use one. The
wheel doesn't need to lock because the Pietenpol tracks very well. I had a
locking tailwheel on a Baby Great Lakes and may on the Pitts because they
are so short coupled that directional control could pose a bit of a problem.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
1117 SE 80th Street
Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
;
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel??
>
> I have seen some of yalls planes with tail wheels, and some with tail
> skids. What do yall preferr. I am building the GN-1 and want some
> feedback on what is better, (tail wheel or tail skid, Locked or
> freewheeling).
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" , "5k"
Subject: | Tailwheel Blocking |
Hi Guys
In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used a
hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The rest
just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just using
the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of my
own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount it. I
am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring, but
a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier to
install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I end up
carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
Ideas?
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"5k"
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Mike,
I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he designed,
"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the skid
is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first project
( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured to a
"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V" block
from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is alot
of leverage there.
I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered tail
wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
; 5k
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Hi Guys
>
>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used a
>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The rest
>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>
>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just using
>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of my
>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>
>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount it.
I
>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring, but
>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>
>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier to
>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I end
up
>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>
>Ideas?
>
>Mike
>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>The more money you throw at them,
>the faster they fly.
>
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Thanks Walt.
I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the same way
BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what they have
for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
; 5k
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Mike,
>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he designed,
>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
skid
>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first project
>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured to a
>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
block
>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
alot
>of leverage there.
>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered tail
>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>walt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>; 5k
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>>
>>Hi Guys
>>
>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used a
>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The rest
>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>
>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just using
>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of my
>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>
>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount it.
>I
>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring,
but
>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>
>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier to
>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I end
>up
>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>
>>Ideas?
>>
>>Mike
>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>The more money you throw at them,
>>the faster they fly.
>>
>>IHA 110
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project and
was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
Carl Loar
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a motorcycle
salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24 inches
long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
Al Swanson
>
>Thanks Walt.
>
>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the same way
>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what they have
>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
>
>Mike
>-----Original Message-----
>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; piet
>; 5k
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>
>>
>>Mike,
>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he designed,
>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
>skid
>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first project
>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured to a
>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
>block
>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
>alot
>>of leverage there.
>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered tail
>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>>walt
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>>; 5k
>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Hi Guys
>>>
>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used a
>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The rest
>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>>
>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just using
>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of my
>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>>
>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount it.
>>I
>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring,
>but
>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>>
>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier to
>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I end
>>up
>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>>
>>>Ideas?
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>>The more money you throw at them,
>>>the faster they fly.
>>>
>>>IHA 110
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Hi Carl...
That is the $10000000000000000000 question
Some guys swear by certified wood only (go to Aircraft Spruce and Specialty
for that) some guys use the local lumber yard. I have even heard of one guy
who grew and harvested his own (poplar).
They have been built from just about every wood known to modern man, and a
few types long extinct .
Get the EAA wood books, and go to
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
To get the FPL wood properties info. Those 2 will let ya do all the
materials substitutions your heart desires (meaning ya can use the lacal
lumberyard ;-)
Also go to http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/ to get the FAA ac
43-whatever (acceptable techniques and practises) some very good info in it.
(I am using 3/4" square ash with birch ply--a flying tank ;-)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood
>
>Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project and
>was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
>Carl Loar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
Anybody feel like wasting a few hours on a cheesy movie with a bad script,
but good planes Iron Eagle IV is on ONTV, 215 on express-vu (i thinks
its the Anick sattelite.... the new one that went up last summer anyway.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
I will give you the John Deere part number if you like for the spring.
Doug Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a motorcycle
>salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24 inches
>long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
>
>Al Swanson
>
>
>>
>>Thanks Walt.
>>
>>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the same way
>>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what they
have
>>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
>>
>>Mike
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; piet
>>; 5k
>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Mike,
>>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he designed,
>>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
>>skid
>>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first
project
>>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured to
a
>>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
>>block
>>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
>>alot
>>>of leverage there.
>>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered
tail
>>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>>>walt
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>>>; 5k
>>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Guys
>>>>
>>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used
a
>>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The
rest
>>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>>>
>>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just
using
>>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of
my
>>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>>>
>>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount
it.
>>>I
>>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring,
>>but
>>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>>>
>>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier
to
>>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I
end
>>>up
>>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>>>
>>>>Ideas?
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>>>The more money you throw at them,
>>>>the faster they fly.
>>>>
>>>>IHA 110
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
Best deal that I found was Western Aircraft Supply in
Calgary. With a little digging I can probably even
find the address. It was about $1500 US + $100
shipping to Rochester, NY. Let me know if you want me
to go looking for the address.
Dave
>
>Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project and
>was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
>Carl Loar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Doug:
Please give me the part number.
Thanks
Steve
>
> I will give you the John Deere part number if you like for the
> spring.
> Doug Hunt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>
> >
> >Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a
> motorcycle
> >salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24
> inches
> >long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
> >
> >Al Swanson
> >
> >
>
> >>
> >>Thanks Walt.
> >>
> >>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the
> same way
> >>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what
> they
> have
> >>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
> piet
> >>; 5k
> >>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
> >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Mike,
> >>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail
> assy( only
> >>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
> >>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he
> designed,
> >>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust
> of the
> >>skid
> >>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my
> first
> project
> >>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is
> secured to
> a
> >>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear
> the "V"
> >>block
> >>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post.
> There is
> >>alot
> >>>of leverage there.
> >>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and
> cantalevered
> tail
> >>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it
> alone.
> >>>walt
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
> >>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
> >>>; 5k
> >>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
> >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
> >>>
> >>>
>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Guys
> >>>>
> >>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2-
> 2/3 used
> a
> >>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads.
> The
> rest
> >>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
> >>>>
> >>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet,
> just
> using
> >>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for
> some of
> my
> >>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
> >>>>
> >>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will
> mount
> it.
> >>>I
> >>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil
> spring,
> >>but
> >>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
> >>>>
> >>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot
> easier
> to
> >>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself
> if I
> end
> >>>up
> >>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme
> tail.
> >>>>
> >>>>Ideas?
> >>>>
> >>>>Mike
> >>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
> >>>>The more money you throw at them,
> >>>>the faster they fly.
> >>>>
> >>>>IHA 110
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Thanks Doug, I'd appreciate it.---Ya dont happen to know the compresson
value on it?...
This thing will have a tail weight of around 150-170# at gross, so a bit
beefier spring than the normal scout is called for.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>I will give you the John Deere part number if you like for the spring.
>Doug Hunt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>
>>
>>Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a motorcycle
>>salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24 inches
>>long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
>>
>>Al Swanson
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Thanks Walt.
>>>
>>>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the same way
>>>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what they
>have
>>>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; piet
>>>; 5k
>>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mike,
>>>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>>>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>>>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he
designed,
>>>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
>>>skid
>>>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first
>project
>>>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured
to
>a
>>>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
>>>block
>>>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
>>>alot
>>>>of leverage there.
>>>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered
>tail
>>>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>>>>walt
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>>>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>>>>; 5k
>>>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi Guys
>>>>>
>>>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used
>a
>>>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The
>rest
>>>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>>>>
>>>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just
>using
>>>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of
>my
>>>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>>>>
>>>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount
>it.
>>>>I
>>>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring,
>>>but
>>>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier
>to
>>>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I
>end
>>>>up
>>>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>>>>The more money you throw at them,
>>>>>the faster they fly.
>>>>>
>>>>>IHA 110
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
oooooops--
That shoulda been 115-130#....
Thats what happens when doing the checkbook and the e-mail at the same time.
;-)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Thanks Doug, I'd appreciate it.---Ya dont happen to know the compresson
>value on it?...
>
>This thing will have a tail weight of around 150-170# at gross, so a bit
>beefier spring than the normal scout is called for.
>
>Mike
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>>
>>I will give you the John Deere part number if you like for the spring.
>>Doug Hunt
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:12 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a motorcycle
>>>salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24 inches
>>>long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
>>>
>>>Al Swanson
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks Walt.
>>>>
>>>>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the same
way
>>>>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what they
>>have
>>>>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; piet
>>>>; 5k
>>>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike,
>>>>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>>>>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>>>>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he
>designed,
>>>>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
>>>>skid
>>>>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first
>>project
>>>>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured
>to
>>a
>>>>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
>>>>block
>>>>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
>>>>alot
>>>>>of leverage there.
>>>>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered
>>tail
>>>>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>>>>>walt
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>>>>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>>>>>; 5k
>>>>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>>>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Guys
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3
used
>>a
>>>>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The
>>rest
>>>>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just
>>using
>>>>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some
of
>>my
>>>>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount
>>it.
>>>>>I
>>>>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil
spring,
>>>>but
>>>>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot
easier
>>to
>>>>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I
>>end
>>>>>up
>>>>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>>>>>The more money you throw at them,
>>>>>>the faster they fly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IHA 110
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
Subject: | Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs. |
Hey Gene, The trick of using the coarse sanpaper worked great, thanks!
Bert (who now has at least one telescoping landing gear....)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Welding of telescoping landing gear legs.
>
> You can ream it, but you remove a lot of metal in the area that you least
> want to -- adjacent to the weld. The best thing to do is put a piece of
> the smaller tubing inside before you weld (usually a scrap piece, but not
> necessarily) After welding, the inside tube comes out, and the slag is
not
> built up to where it will keep the next tube from sliding in. If you have
> already done all welding and do not want to redo, take a piece of welding
> rod and crimp it around a strip of coarse sandpaper. Chuck the welding
rod
> in a hand drill and go at it. You will eventually ream out the slag.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey John,
Good to see you again! I read your message about the smooth floor, I think
it was Mike Cuy that put some stainless skid plates for where his feet would
rest, to give that nice smooth foot support. As I remember, he had skid
plates for the front and back. I think I'll do something like that, if I
ever get to that point! (If I ever get a heater out in my garage, that is!)
I got my gas welding rig last weekend, so far I'm a REAL crummy welder!
But I'm practicing!
Take care,
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Tailwheel Blocking |
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
; 5k
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>Mike,
>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail assy( only
>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he designed,
>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust of the
skid
>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my first project
>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is secured to a
>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear the "V"
block
>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post. There is
alot
>of leverage there.
>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and cantalevered tail
>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it alone.
>walt
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>; 5k
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>
>>
>>Hi Guys
>>
>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2- 2/3 used a
>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads. The rest
>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>>
>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet, just using
>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for some of my
>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>>
>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will mount it.
>I
>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil spring,
but
>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>>
>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot easier to
>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself if I end
>up
>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme tail.
>>
>>Ideas?
>>
>>Mike
>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>>The more money you throw at them,
>>the faster they fly.
>>
>>IHA 110
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
I have to agree you can't beat Western Aircraft. Jean Peters knows the
Piet all you have to do is tell him what you are building he weill send
you everthing you need, all cut to the correct dimesions. Fist rate
stuff too.
John Duprey
Dave and Connie wrote:
>
>
> Best deal that I found was Western Aircraft Supply in
> Calgary. With a little digging I can probably even
> find the address. It was about $1500 US + $100
> shipping to Rochester, NY. Let me know if you want me
> to go looking for the address.
>
> Dave
>
> >
> >Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project and
> >was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
> >Carl Loar
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
Western Aircraft Supply is listed in the back of Sport Aviation.623
Markerville Rd.,NE,Calgary,Alberta,T2E 5X1 Canada.Phone 403-250-1955
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood
>
>Best deal that I found was Western Aircraft Supply in
>Calgary. With a little digging I can probably even
>find the address. It was about $1500 US + $100
>shipping to Rochester, NY. Let me know if you want me
>to go looking for the address.
>
>Dave
>
>
>>
>>Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project
and
>>was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
>>Carl Loar
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Here is the John Deere # T143444.Was $13.80 Canadian in 1997.Sorry,i don't
have the spring tech data Mike.
Doug Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Doug:
>Please give me the part number.
>
>Thanks
>Steve
>
>>
>> I will give you the John Deere part number if you like for the
>> spring.
>> Doug Hunt
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Mike- If you are looking for a coil spring, I bought mine at a
>> motorcycle
>> >salvage yard. It was from the front shock strut. It was about 24
>> inches
>> >long, so I just cut it short, for a spare. Cost me $10.00.
>> >
>> >Al Swanson
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >>Thanks Walt.
>> >>
>> >>I am getting a lot of my non-critical hardware / steel parts the
>> same way
>> >>BHP did---The local tractor supply ;-). I'll just have to see what
>> they
>> have
>> >>for coils and leafs, then make up my mind.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>> >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
>> piet
>> >>; 5k
>> >>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 6:20 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike,
>> >>>I'm building mine to the plans. Including the original tail
>> assy( only
>> >>>adding a swivveling wheel where the skid was).
>> >>>Once again, old Bernard was smart. The tail skid assy that he
>> designed,
>> >>>"pulls" from the longerons at the pivot point, and the up thrust
>> of the
>> >>skid
>> >>>is put directly up the tail post. But other planes, like my
>> first
>> project
>> >>>( Fisher 404) the tail wheel is out on a leaf spring, which is
>> secured to
>> a
>> >>>"V" block. The forces on this are in a way that wants to tear
>> the "V"
>> >>block
>> >>>from the tail because of the wheel way out past the tail post.
>> There is
>> >>alot
>> >>>of leverage there.
>> >>>I would say that if you are putting a leaf spring and
>> cantalevered
>> tail
>> >>>wheel, put in the wedge, if making to Bernards plans, leave it
>> alone.
>> >>>walt
>> >>>-----Original Message-----
>> >>>From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>> >>>To: piet aircamper ; piet
>> >>>; 5k
>> >>>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 5:33 PM
>> >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Hi Guys
>> >>>>
>> >>>>In all of the different wooden airplanes I studied, about 1/2-
>> 2/3 used
>> a
>> >>>>hardwood wedge between the longerons to support tailwheel loads.
>> The
>> rest
>> >>>>just took the load with the trussing and tailpost.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>What is everybody doing for thiers ?? (mine is not a true Piet,
>> just
>> using
>> >>>>the F/G manual plans--Air Camper and Scout-- as a guideline for
>> some of
>> my
>> >>>>own ideas....It'll look like a piet though ;-).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>My wheel will be a maule, but I havent got a clue yet how I will
>> mount
>> it.
>> >>>I
>> >>>>am leaning towards the scout type "v" with the compression coil
>> spring,
>> >>but
>> >>>>a leaf spring might end up being lighter so the way to go.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I'd like to keep as many options as possible open, and its a lot
>> easier
>> to
>> >>>>install now than try and do it later, but I am gonna KICK myself
>> if I
>> end
>> >>>up
>> >>>>carrying around a pound of unneeded oak or ash at the extreme
>> tail.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Ideas?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Mike
>> >>>>Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
>> >>>>The more money you throw at them,
>> >>>>the faster they fly.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>IHA 110
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Thanks,,,,,, I'll give them a call.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: B and V Dearinger <dearinge(at)iocc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood
>
> Western Aircraft Supply is listed in the back of Sport Aviation.623
> Markerville Rd.,NE,Calgary,Alberta,T2E 5X1 Canada.Phone 403-250-1955
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood
>
>
>
> >
> >Best deal that I found was Western Aircraft Supply in
> >Calgary. With a little digging I can probably even
> >find the address. It was about $1500 US + $100
> >shipping to Rochester, NY. Let me know if you want me
> >to go looking for the address.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project
> and
> >>was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
> >>Carl Loar
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
For what its worth dept.
I think the spoked wheels on the Piet look great and was considering them
when I watched a video from
"aircamper.org". On the take off, it looked as though he had a quartering
crosswind and if you watch the
gear, it appears they are really being stressed. I don't know, check it out.
here is the ip for it.
www.aircamper.org/videos/corvair-pietenpol4-to.mpeg
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Landing gear follies |
"'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com' piet list"
Question of the day,
Currently I am planning on building a piet using
the '33 plans but with the wooden landing gear from
the F&G manual. My question is this: on the '33
model, the 2" ash cross piece, rear one, is in a
different location compared to the F&G manual. Should
the cross piece be relocated to match the F&G model or
left as is and just place the wooden landing gear,
rear strut, in the new location?
As always, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
Bill,
Ellsworth AFB SD
IHA#7
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January 09, 2000 - January 30, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bl