Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bm
January 30, 2000 - February 23, 2000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
> Here are the specs given to me by CARLSON AIRCRAFT on the 6061T6 struts.
>
> Large strut-71/8" circumference
> .544 sq.in.
> Small strut-5 5/8
> .431
>
> 6061T6 is equal to: Large strut
> small strut
> .544 sq.in.
> .431 sq.in.
> 42000 PSI-ultimate 23,289 PSI
> 17,852 PSI
>
> 37000 PSI-yield 20516 PSI
> 15726 PSI
>
> 27000 PSI shear 14971 PSI
> 11476 PSI
>
> Large strut can be compared to,but is stronger than 2 1/4" dia. X .065
> wall tubing-6061T6
>
> Small strut
> 1 3/4" dia X .065 6061T6
>
> Doug Hunt
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Even better, LEAF sells plastic streamlined covers for $100 USD (I think)
for 4 10' pieces. I bought them and the work great to cover my 4130 round
struts. I have used a couple of blocks to attach them to the strut, but
they were easy to cut on the band saw.
Ken
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Warren:
> Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and glueing
> something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own streamlined
> tubine??
>
> Steve
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > Got to
> > http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
> >
> > and smile again!
> > Cheers,
> > Warren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
The alum. struts are $45.(US) for a 10 foot length of the large size,no
cover required.
Doug Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>Even better, LEAF sells plastic streamlined covers for $100 USD (I think)
>for 4 10' pieces. I bought them and the work great to cover my 4130 round
>struts. I have used a couple of blocks to attach them to the strut, but
>they were easy to cut on the band saw.
>
>Ken
>
>On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Warren:
>> Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and glueing
>> something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own streamlined
>> tubine??
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Got to
>> > http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
>> >
>> > and smile again!
>> > Cheers,
>> > Warren
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Steve W GN-1 builder
>> IHA #6
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Ken:
What diameter and thickness are your 4130 lift struts. Also does Leaf
have a website/800 number.
Steve
writes:
>
>
> Even better, LEAF sells plastic streamlined covers for $100 USD (I
> think)
> for 4 10' pieces. I bought them and the work great to cover my 4130
> round
> struts. I have used a couple of blocks to attach them to the strut,
> but
> they were easy to cut on the band saw.
>
> Ken
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Warren:
> > Thank you very much! Have you heard of using round tubing and
> glueing
> > something like wood to the trailing side and making yer own
> streamlined
> > tubine??
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> > writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Got to
> > > http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
> > >
> > > and smile again!
> > > Cheers,
> > > Warren
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Steve W GN-1 builder
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> <http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
HUH???????
William, you REALLY peaked my curiosity now. I just spent an hour going over
my copies of the flying and glider manual reprints, with a magnafying glass,
and for both the scout and the 'camper, THERE IS NO 2" ASH CROSSPIECE!!!!!!.
Not in the text and not in the drawings.
There is a 1/2" x 20 guage steel crosstrap in the scout drawings, which I am
putting in as a 1/8" x 1/2" -- $1.49 1025 steel
Since you are not the first to offhand mention something about it, do I have
an earlier version??? I admit to never having seen the 1933 "improved"
drawings, but my F/G manual reprints are only abot 10 years old (1932 for
the 'camper and 1933 for the scout).
Are these tension or compression members???? Location????
Inquiring minds wanna know !!!! (before they end up sitting on thier belly
on a runway )
(and at 2", for ash, just what are you going to land on them, a 727?????
)
-----Original Message-----
From: william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com>
piet list
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear follies
>
>Question of the day,
> Currently I am planning on building a piet using
>the '33 plans but with the wooden landing gear from
>the F&G manual. My question is this: on the '33
>model, the 2" ash cross piece, rear one, is in a
>different location compared to the F&G manual. Should
>the cross piece be relocated to match the F&G model or
>left as is and just place the wooden landing gear,
>rear strut, in the new location?
>As always, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Bill,
>Ellsworth AFB SD
>IHA#7
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,
We used 1/4" X 3/4" spruce for our stringers and slightly rounded the
side which would go against the fabric and rounded over the edges as
well. Cedar should be just fine too.
By them selves they are rather flimsy though. When they were all
settled into the notches of the supporting ply structure it makes a
rather firm arrangement.
To be sure we would like the lay of the stringers, before we glued
them in, we put them in place and draped a sheet over them and held
it tight to see how every thing would turn out. It looked good.
Rodger
Single piece winged Piet under construction.
________________________________________________________________________________
Sam wrote:
Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of
4130 steel struts?
To quote Elmer Fudd "Be very very careful" or to put it another way: NO.
Remember, this is what your life is hanging from.
Rodger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Well, as always, there is unsubstantiated opinion,
and then there is engineered information. For those who prefer the later,
contact Carlson and request the actual data and make your own informed decision.
Best Regards
Warren
Rodger & Betty wrote:
>
> Sam wrote:
> Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of
> 4130 steel struts?
>
> To quote Elmer Fudd "Be very very careful" or to put it another way: NO.
> Remember, this is what your life is hanging from.
>
> Rodger
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
You can save about $1000.00 if you buy rough lumber
and cut it yourself. bought mine from madison lumber
co. and hoop pine ply from riteco. half the cost and
less weight.
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just
> starting this project and
> was wondering what the best source for wood for the
> Piet would be.
> Carl Loar
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
Mike,
I must sincerely apoligize for not clarifying my
question more. The 2" ash cross piece is shown only
on the '33 plans, not the F&G manual. My question
delt more on the location. In the F&GM version, the
cross piece associated with the rear landing gear
strut fitting is co-located with the "V" that is
formed by the verticals in the fuselage sides. On the
'33 version, the cross piece associated with the rear
landing gear strut fitting is increased to 2" in width
and placed a few inches ahead of the "V" formed by the
verticles in the fuselage side. Since I want to use
the wood gear on the '33 version, I wondered if I
needed to change the position of the cross piece to
coinside with the "V" as in the F&GM version.
Again, I'm sorry for causing confusion and hope I
did a better job this time.
Bill
--- Mike Lund wrote:
>
>
> HUH???????
>
> William, you REALLY peaked my curiosity now. I just
> spent an hour going over
> my copies of the flying and glider manual reprints,
> with a magnafying glass,
> and for both the scout and the 'camper, THERE IS NO
> 2" ASH CROSSPIECE!!!!!!.
> Not in the text and not in the drawings.
>
> There is a 1/2" x 20 guage steel crosstrap in the
> scout drawings, which I am
> putting in as a 1/8" x 1/2" -- $1.49 1025 steel
>
> Since you are not the first to offhand mention
> something about it, do I have
> an earlier version??? I admit to never having seen
> the 1933 "improved"
> drawings, but my F/G manual reprints are only abot
> 10 years old (1932 for
> the 'camper and 1933 for the scout).
>
> Are these tension or compression members????
> Location????
>
> Inquiring minds wanna know !!!! (before they end up
> sitting on thier belly
> on a runway )
>
> (and at 2", for ash, just what are you going to
> land on them, a 727?????
> )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com>
> To: Piet Builder ;
> 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> piet list
> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:44 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear follies
>
>
> hutson
> >
> >Question of the day,
> > Currently I am planning on building a piet
> using
> >the '33 plans but with the wooden landing gear from
> >the F&G manual. My question is this: on the '33
> >model, the 2" ash cross piece, rear one, is in a
> >different location compared to the F&G manual.
> Should
> >the cross piece be relocated to match the F&G model
> or
> >left as is and just place the wooden landing gear,
> >rear strut, in the new location?
> >As always, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> >Ellsworth AFB SD
> >IHA#7
> >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >http://im.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail Skids Vs Tail Wheels |
Steve wonders which is best to use, tail skids or tail wheels?
If you only land on a dirt or grass strip and the owner doesn't
mind the gouges AND you will NEVER NEVER land on pavement then
it's not much of a choice, tail skid will be the way to go. It
will make the plane look "vintage" without a doubt. It also acts
as a brake to a certain extent and you will be doing it the way
it was done in the real early days.
But a tail skid will give no lateral resistance on pavement and
will skate around and plop you into disaster in less than an eye
blink.
Ours has a tail wheel and will be linked to the rudder cables and
have springs in the line too.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Peculiar considering the 100 series of Cessnas use Aluminum struts
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>Well, as always, there is unsubstantiated opinion,
> and then there is engineered information. For those who prefer the
later,
>contact Carlson and request the actual data and make your own informed
decision.
>Best Regards
>Warren
>
>Rodger & Betty wrote:
>
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>>
>> Sam wrote:
>> Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of
>> 4130 steel struts?
>>
>> To quote Elmer Fudd "Be very very careful" or to put it another way: NO.
>> Remember, this is what your life is hanging from.
>>
>> Rodger
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
Ok, Bill,...
THX.. for a minute I thought I was stupid. Look at the same book for a few
years and still not know whats going on......oh, wait a minute, that was
beer...um....er.....college
Then if you are looking at the same drawings I am, dont worry about it with
a scout-type gear.
When ya hit, the wheels move outward and upward, which puts the bottom fuse
in tension (sides in compression), The spring collapses, absorbing the shock
and moving the upper mount upwards. Tension again on the sides, relived by
the top. compression on the top.
This causes the upper mounts to move up and in (compression on the box) but
the wires and struts move that to the wings as flex. (dont even TRY on spar
forces )
If ya are thinking about cub-type gear, when ya hit, you spilt the bungies
by moving the gear upwards and outwards, which puts the floor in
compression. No load members besides trussing to move the forces
upwards......
Oh,...its clear as kalua and coffee.....
O.K.......
Now, I understand a good honking chunk of ash between the mounts.
Go scout gear. One more time, BHP knew what he was doing... (too bad he
didnt see the price of '00 materials...he would'a done it of paper ).
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear follies
>
>Mike,
> I must sincerely apoligize for not clarifying my
>question more. The 2" ash cross piece is shown only
>on the '33 plans, not the F&G manual. My question
>delt more on the location. In the F&GM version, the
>cross piece associated with the rear landing gear
>strut fitting is co-located with the "V" that is
>formed by the verticals in the fuselage sides. On the
>'33 version, the cross piece associated with the rear
>landing gear strut fitting is increased to 2" in width
>and placed a few inches ahead of the "V" formed by the
>verticles in the fuselage side. Since I want to use
>the wood gear on the '33 version, I wondered if I
>needed to change the position of the cross piece to
>coinside with the "V" as in the F&GM version.
> Again, I'm sorry for causing confusion and hope I
>did a better job this time.
>
>
>Bill
>
>--- Mike Lund wrote:
>>
>>
>> HUH???????
>>
>> William, you REALLY peaked my curiosity now. I just
>> spent an hour going over
>> my copies of the flying and glider manual reprints,
>> with a magnafying glass,
>> and for both the scout and the 'camper, THERE IS NO
>> 2" ASH CROSSPIECE!!!!!!.
>> Not in the text and not in the drawings.
>>
>> There is a 1/2" x 20 guage steel crosstrap in the
>> scout drawings, which I am
>> putting in as a 1/8" x 1/2" -- $1.49 1025 steel
>>
>> Since you are not the first to offhand mention
>> something about it, do I have
>> an earlier version??? I admit to never having seen
>> the 1933 "improved"
>> drawings, but my F/G manual reprints are only abot
>> 10 years old (1932 for
>> the 'camper and 1933 for the scout).
>>
>> Are these tension or compression members????
>> Location????
>>
>> Inquiring minds wanna know !!!! (before they end up
>> sitting on thier belly
>> on a runway )
>>
>> (and at 2", for ash, just what are you going to
>> land on them, a 727?????
>> )
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: william hutson <wihutson(at)yahoo.com>
>> To: Piet Builder ;
>> 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
>> piet list
>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:44 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear follies
>>
>>
>> hutson
>> >
>> >Question of the day,
>> > Currently I am planning on building a piet
>> using
>> >the '33 plans but with the wooden landing gear from
>> >the F&G manual. My question is this: on the '33
>> >model, the 2" ash cross piece, rear one, is in a
>> >different location compared to the F&G manual.
>> Should
>> >the cross piece be relocated to match the F&G model
>> or
>> >left as is and just place the wooden landing gear,
>> >rear strut, in the new location?
>> >As always, any ideas are greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> >
>> >Bill,
>> >Ellsworth AFB SD
>> >IHA#7
>> >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>> >http://im.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> through
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>> Matronics!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Boy did I ever shoot myself in the foot. And then step into the prop
the prop arc.
Rodger
Hangin' in there
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
I cant say for the 100 series I have never seen one apart , but the 02a and
337 use a hard extrusion with an .016 sreamlined slipcover.
And THAT is a &*Y*%%&%&**
Y&%
#%$#
to try and fit
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>Peculiar considering the 100 series of Cessnas use Aluminum struts
>
>Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
>(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000 6:35 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift Struts
>
>
>>
>>Well, as always, there is unsubstantiated opinion,
>> and then there is engineered information. For those who prefer the
>later,
>>contact Carlson and request the actual data and make your own informed
>decision.
>>Best Regards
>>Warren
>>
>>Rodger & Betty wrote:
>>
><childsway@indian-creek.net>
>>>
>>> Sam wrote:
>>> Just a thought.........are aluminum lift struts okay to use instead of
>>> 4130 steel struts?
>>>
>>> To quote Elmer Fudd "Be very very careful" or to put it another way: NO.
>>> Remember, this is what your life is hanging from.
>>>
>>> Rodger
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega Landing Gear Question. |
On the grega's telescoping landing gear assembly.....
Assemby consists of two parts. An upper section slides into the lower
section and telescopes. Held together by two bungges.
The upper leg shows a .25 milled slot that runs for about 4 1/2 inches to
allow the
upper leg to slide to and fro within the lower leg. A 1/4 inch bolt goes
through both lower and upper to secure it so upper wont slide out of the
lower leg if the bungees break.
How are you supposed to "mill" these two slots??? I've scratched my head
all day on this one - not to mention built two upper legs that I ruined
trying.
Would a machine shop be able to cut this slot. Is there a better way to
secure this assembly against coming apart than a bolt through them both.
I'm about ready to sell out and take up golf....
Help me if you can. Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Motorcycle Wheel Drawings |
| From: | Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com> |
To those who asked for my drawings / info about Brian Kenney's
motorcycle-wheeled Piet, please be patient. Copy machine is out of
toner, will have them out in a couple of days.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ash Cross Pieces |
| From: | Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com> |
Bill and listers,
The dimension of the top of the landing gear V is unchanged at 28
3/4 inches from F&G, '33, '66 long fuse, wood, and steel gear. You had
best place the ash pieces so the fittings that attach the gear to the
fuse bear on and the bolts for the gear attach fittings pass through the
ash pieces. Also, if you measure carefully, those ash pieces should be
colocated with the fuselage frame "clusters". Lots of stress in that
area when you bounce a landing so it should be strong.
Innovate on cosmetics not on structure!
Tom
>>Question of the day,
>> Should the cross piece be relocated to match the F&G model or
>>left as is and just place the wooden landing gear,
>>rear strut, in the new location?
>cross piece associated with the rear landing gear
>strut fitting is co-located with the "V" that is
>formed by the verticals in the fuselage sides. On the
>'33 version, the cross piece associated with the rear
>landing gear strut fitting is increased to 2" in width
>and placed a few inches ahead of the "V" formed by the
>verticles in the fuselage side.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
If you have the skid, I hope you have grass too. It was very nostagic to
watch Frank Pavliga "walk" his airplane on long taxi runs even on grass, but
I'd rather ride.
Took up the piet Saturday, 30 degrees, and only 15 minutes, but when you
gotta go you gotta go!
stevee
Provo Ut
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim
Cunningham
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel??
I have the Scott 2000, but any tailwheel should do. I couldn't imagine
trying to taxi with a skid. I guess if you want you could use one. The
wheel doesn't need to lock because the Pietenpol tracks very well. I had a
locking tailwheel on a Baby Great Lakes and may on the Pitts because they
are so short coupled that directional control could pose a bit of a problem.
Copinfo(at)home.com
Tim Cunningham
1117 SE 80th Street
Runnells, Iowa 50237 (515) 237-1510
----- Original Message -----
From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
;
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel??
>
> I have seen some of yalls planes with tail wheels, and some with tail
> skids. What do yall preferr. I am building the GN-1 and want some
> feedback on what is better, (tail wheel or tail skid, Locked or
> freewheeling).
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William C. Beerman" <wcb(at)pliantsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
John,
In this case I believe you're right; I have come to agree (based in part
on feedback from this list) that the 5/16 bolt is appropriate for the rudder
pedestal mount.
However, I don't agree that the plans are 100% complete and mistake free.
I think there's plenty of information there to allow a reasonably careful
builder to produce a well built and safe aircraft, as long as he does his
homework. But there ARE inconsistencies, several of which I have already
encountered (such as rudder / elevator hinges needing to be built a little
taller than plans to allow installation of modern AN hardware, torque tube
interference with the seatbacks, etc.) as well as the interference problem
with the control stick interconnect of which I was previously unaware, and
which you identified yourself below.
My philosophy is that I consult the plans first, then interpret them with
the help of modern reference manuals, such as AC43-13, ask questions of
those wiser than me when doubts arise, then make an intelligent decision
based on ALL the information.
In the case of welding vs. brazing, I understand that brazing used to be
commonplace, but per AC43-13 is no longer an acceptable repair or
construction practice for joining steel parts, and although the plans say
to braze the part in place, I have chosen to heed the advice in AC43-13,
and of my A&P, to weld instead.
If I had created the Pietenpol plans as a 16 year old apprentice draftsman,
I would be very proud of myself. However, I feel much better about building
this aircraft after interpreting the plans in light of modern practices
and with advice from veterans. I believe this list fuflfills a portion
of that.
Anyway, that's just my opinion, and I respect others'. Thanks for sharing
yours!
-Bill
Raleigh, NC
Stinson Station Wagon owner,
Long fuse Piet 1/4 interest- fuselage & tail section complete,
controls in progress.
> From: nle97(at)juno.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:05:20 -0600
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar bolt size
>
>
> Don't change the plans, follow the directions. I keep hearing
> complaints about the plans and don't know what all the problems are
> about. We've found very few mistakes or omissions. Also, the pivot bolt
> should be brazed in place, not welded.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
----- Begin Included Message -----
From: nle97(at)juno.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:54:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Floor
Mike,
-cut-
Also, the side mounted interconnect tube
between the front and aft joy stick has clearance problems with the front
seat diagonal braces -- at least our's did.
-cut-
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
----- End Included Message -----
>
> >
> >Has anyone installed the rudder bar and pedestal assembly? I'm
> >wondering if the bolt brazed (welded, really) in the rudder
> >pedestal is REALLY supposed to be a 5/16 bolt. Drilling out the
> >3/8 OD piece of tubing that forms the pivot bushing in the rudder
> >bar to accomodate a 5/16 mounting bolt would only leave a wall
> >thickness of about 0.030" in the pivot bushing.
> >
> >Doesn't seem like much for a part that needs to tolerate a fair
> >amount of abuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Trees. no doubt the best source.
Steve E.
100% douglas fir from a local mill Piet.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Loar
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood
Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project and
was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
Carl Loar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder bar bolt size |
Bill,
Be careful! People have been body-slammed here on the list for remarks
like that about our Piet plans!! :) But before that happens, I want to say
that I agree with you, and for me, I guess the process you describe is part
of what I like about the Piet. You end up making it YOUR airplane, and
you've ended up learning much, much, more about aircraft design than a
kit-builder would, beacuse you have to!!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
thanks, this is the kind of info i needed to know
regards,
Mike
>From: "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood
>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:24:11 -0500
>
>
>Hi Carl...
>
>That is the $10000000000000000000 question
>
>Some guys swear by certified wood only (go to Aircraft Spruce and Specialty
>for that) some guys use the local lumber yard. I have even heard of one guy
>who grew and harvested his own (poplar).
>
>They have been built from just about every wood known to modern man, and a
>few types long extinct .
>
>Get the EAA wood books, and go to
>http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
>
>To get the FPL wood properties info. Those 2 will let ya do all the
>materials substitutions your heart desires (meaning ya can use the lacal
>lumberyard ;-)
>
>Also go to http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/ to get the FAA ac
>43-whatever (acceptable techniques and practises) some very good info in
>it.
>
>(I am using 3/4" square ash with birch ply--a flying tank ;-)
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 7:39 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood
>
>
> >
> >Hello, what a great place for Piet Info. I'm just starting this project
>and
> >was wondering what the best source for wood for the Piet would be.
> >Carl Loar
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" , "5k"
Hi Guys
I am going to order the ply for the skin tommorow so I can put it on this
weekend.
I have 2 choices, 1/8" or 1/4" (the 3/32" isnt available locally, and for a
bit of thinking I dont feel like driving 2 1/2 hrs each way to get it ;-)
I have no doubt the 1/8" birch would be strong enough for flying, but I
really wonder how it would stand up to hanger rash.-- the odd bump and
bruise is to be expected (it will be going in the "big" hanger, so it shares
space with 2 very active large fleet ag operators as well as a dozen private
planes), which makes the 1/4" the preferable choice there.
But the weight of the 1/4" seems a bit much......
anybody got experience with 1/8" ply sides? Do they have to be babied, or
are they faily tough?? (the flybaby uses the 1/8" but that is faired out so
far it is well protected)
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
1/8" on the sides is the common practice.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Mike Lund" 01/31 10:59 AM >>>
Hi Guys
I am going to order the ply for the skin tommorow so I can put it on this
weekend.
I have 2 choices, 1/8" or 1/4" (the 3/32" isnt available locally, and for a
bit of thinking I dont feel like driving 2 1/2 hrs each way to get it ;-)
I have no doubt the 1/8" birch would be strong enough for flying, but I
really wonder how it would stand up to hanger rash.-- the odd bump and
bruise is to be expected (it will be going in the "big" hanger, so it shares
space with 2 very active large fleet ag operators as well as a dozen private
planes), which makes the 1/4" the preferable choice there.
But the weight of the 1/4" seems a bit much......
anybody got experience with 1/8" ply sides? Do they have to be babied, or
are they faily tough?? (the flybaby uses the 1/8" but that is faired out so
far it is well protected)
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet" , "5k"
| Subject: | Cheap trick of the day |
I had a revelation during lunch
when spray painting small parts, it is always a hassel to find something to
put them on so the edges can be sprayed, and the old nail-board is a pain to
store.
How 'bout the little white plastic things used to keep the box lid off the
pizza??
Free (well, sorta) and disposable. Ya just gotta like pizza.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conrad, Bart D" <Bart.Conrad(at)NA.BOEING.COM> |
On the subject of wire wheels, does anyone know where 2/3 scale Jenny and
Neuport builders get their wire wheels?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Progress Report! |
I have a DARK GREY AIRPLANE!
Yup, after 36 hours of labouring on the weekend, I got the first coat of
Cecofil on the fuselage, LG and tail. Cecofil is the UV and fill coat for
the AFS system. It sprayed out very easily and there are no drips or
runs. I'm really impressed at how well it worked! I also got through
sanding the first coat in preparation for the second which I'll apply
tonight.
I did run into a few minor snags. In sanding the elevator I ran into an
area that I should have applied a surface tape but did not. I didn't
notice until I sanded a small hole throught the surface fabric! A panic
call to Tammy at AFS put us back on track as it's OK to apply a surface
tape over the Cecofil coat if necessary. That will be an easy fix for
Renee tonight.
The next problem was with the air compressor. I have a small water
seperator and pressure regulator/guage right at the spray gun. I found
that I was having trouble maintaining pressure with continuous spraying so
now I monitor the pressure and stop when it hits 60 psi and wait for the
tank to fill. It takes a little longer, but it's cheaper than two
compressors.
I was also getting a lot of water in the little seperator and even more
coming right through thte line. I ended up with a couple of water drops on
the finish as I worked. House of Tools provided the solution with a
second, heavy duty water filter which I've installed at the compressor
end. The spraying I did last night only prodiuced about 2-3 cc's of water
in the second seperator at the gun.
Total time to spray all parts, start to finish was 8 hours. However, I was
sanding parts while I waited for the tank to fill so it wasn't a dedicated
8 hours. Tonight, I start spraying the second Cecofil coat. There is one
more coat after that before the top coats go on. I may use a forth or
fifth coat on the LG legs as I've used the 101 fabric there and ther eis a
coarser weave. With the HVLP gun, I've only used 1-1.25 quarts of Cecofil
to apply a full coat. There is almost no overspray.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega Landing Gear Question. |
Not sure how you ruined two legs. All I did was lock mine into the vise with
some support under the pipe an started to mill through. You should ensure
that it is in the middle of the pipe and continue milling through to the
other side of the pipe on the same stroke. DO NOT do one side then the
other or you will lose your alignment.
And yes any machine shop can do this for you, but it gets expensive after a
while. It's best to do it yourself if you have access to a machine shop.
Good Luck.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Practice welding with the parts at a slight an angle, always weld uphill and
keep the puddle wet and moving at all times.
I learned from a master Smith. After my crash I checked the welds and they
all held up.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
Just a thought...Can't they ship the 3/16th for you. I think 1/4 is too
heavy, and the 1/8 may not be strong enough. Even with the 3/16 I would
gingerly but my weight down on it because it would make noises like it would
break through. I sometimes stepped onto the top of lower longeron until I
sat down, so I wouldn't have to put my whole weight onto the floor at once.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
You are right Bill.
I concur with you and Gary. The aircraft when finished will be YOUR
airplane. In Canada the authorities see it that way no matter what you call
it. The reasons we built airplanes are education and recreation. In our case
we are interested in recreating a work of art. When this piece of art is
finished it will fly! You had better be sure that what you have done is the
best you can do or................
How many different versions did Bernard build? Didn't he too keep on
improving and changing the design as long as he had life to do it with?
Make sure your interpretation of the various ideas and plans is the within
the governing rules of homebuilding in your country or better. Most of all
HAVE FUN! The freedom of plans built over kit built is one of the reasons I
chose this aircraft.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
I suppose they could, but for the price of shipping a couple 4x8's I may as
well go to Burlington to pick it up.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Goin' Shopping
>
>Just a thought...Can't they ship the 3/16th for you. I think 1/4 is too
>heavy, and the 1/8 may not be strong enough. Even with the 3/16 I would
>gingerly but my weight down on it because it would make noises like it
would
>break through. I sometimes stepped onto the top of lower longeron until I
>sat down, so I wouldn't have to put my whole weight onto the floor at once.
>
>Regards,
>Domenic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
Mike,
I just looked up my '33 drawings for you. The ash is on Drawing #1. There
are two and are just ahead of the 10" mark from the firewall and 371/2" mark
(10 + 271/2") and are shown in the bottom view as well as the top view
looking down. The ash supports the structure when landing. The back of the
front seat (with a "V") is glued to the top of the white ash. And guess
what...when I crashed the undercarriage collapsed totally and the ash
survived.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
I am trying to book my time-off, dont-call-me-to-work days for this summer
(yep, I am sick of the snow already and looking at summer holidays;-)
Anybody know what days the brussels fly-in is this year ? I dont think I
will be flying this crate yet, but might trailer it up.
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
Mike,
Where do you live. I'm in Etobicoke.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | its starting to look like a piet |
well our piet is starting to look like an airplane! we
have the seats in the fuselage and it won't be long
untill we can sit in the cockpit and make airplane
sounds. i am new to the piet list and my father and i
started our piet in sept 99 shortly after attending
brodhead 99 and oshkosh. we live in central ohio and
have been wondering if there are any piet projects in
the local area.
shad bell
....have fun and stay out of the trees
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Mike,
I have a correction to my last posting on the "ash location". It is inline
with the vertical clusters and the front seat back is glued to the side
closest to the pilot.
Domenic
Fly "Low and Slow", by the seat of your pants.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
Thanks Dominic
Aint that a co-inki-dink
As per my '32 drawings, I have cross members at 8.5" and 37.5". AND, since
my entire fuse is 3/4" ash they are already there. I just need to laminate
another piece onto the side of each.
For ONCE an after-its-done modification will be easy
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear follies
>
>Mike,
>
>I just looked up my '33 drawings for you. The ash is on Drawing #1. There
>are two and are just ahead of the 10" mark from the firewall and 371/2"
mark
>(10 + 271/2") and are shown in the bottom view as well as the top view
>looking down. The ash supports the structure when landing. The back of the
>front seat (with a "V") is glued to the top of the white ash. And guess
>what...when I crashed the undercarriage collapsed totally and the ash
>survived.
>
>Regards,
>
>Domenic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
I am in St. Thomas (CYQS)---work unicom at the field as well as owning a
small commercial woodshop.
I usually use Ontario Plywood Specialty for the "odd" woods, but for this
plane I found a source for baltic birch 5 minutes away. Its actually only
water"resistent", but an extra coat or 2 of marine varnish fixes that. and
at $20 for a 60"x60", I can afford the varnish
-----Original Message-----
From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Goin' Shopping
>
>Mike,
>Where do you live. I'm in Etobicoke.
>Domenic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Mike,
Not sure yet. It is usually closest to Fathers Day week-end.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
Mike,
I could use some of that ply when I get around to rebuilding. By the way we
usually have a Pietenpol Party in Feb. Normally around valentine's day. For
the first time though it has been moved states side to Tom Bowdlers place.
He is going to reserve Hotel rooms for all that are going. What we have been
doing is moving the party to a different persons house each year. That way
we get to see everyone's project and meet different people each year. If you
are interested this year its the 27th of Feb. week-end. Tom is also a Piet
lister or you can contact him at Bowdler(at)juno.com to invite yourself or I
can talk to him on your behalf. This will be a very interesting party.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega Landing Gear Question. |
Domenico, What tool or device did you use to "mill" these pieces?
Thanks, Bert (Who has an appointment at the machine shop Wednesday but still
wants to know how to do it)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega Landing Gear Question.
>
> Not sure how you ruined two legs. All I did was lock mine into the vise
with
> some support under the pipe an started to mill through. You should ensure
> that it is in the middle of the pipe and continue milling through to the
> other side of the pipe on the same stroke. DO NOT do one side then the
> other or you will lose your alignment.
> And yes any machine shop can do this for you, but it gets expensive after
a
> while. It's best to do it yourself if you have access to a machine shop.
> Good Luck.
> Domenic
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Carrie Tracy" <ctracy(at)csus.edu> |
Hi, My name is Chris Tracy (Sacramento CA.) and I just sent away (Monday)
for my piet plans (wife even gave her permission. She has no idea what she
has gotten her self into). Yes I know you have probably seen many a new
builder come and go but I'm only building parts of an airplane and who
knows some day I may end up with a completed Piet. No time frame no hurry,
( That's a lie. I look at Steve E.s pictures of him flying and dream of
the day that it will be me with the wind blowing through my hair) I have
been building and designing model airplanes (RC) for 6 years, reading
KITPLANES for 15 years, in love with airplanes ( older the better ) all my
life, 32 years, got my pilots license 10 years ago and finally graduated
from collage (kept taking classes until one day I realized I could
graduate) . I feel I have the skill needed to build one of these things
but there is all ways that little bit of fear when your butt will be IN the
thing and not just on the ground. So I really appreciate the pictures and
information on the web ( aircamper.org ) and all the help that all of you
have learned the had way (ie mistakes I hope to avoid). To this end I have
a couple of questions:
1: I will be starting on the wing first because I hate to build wings and
figured I should build them while my motivation is high. Any suggestions
would be helpful. Things not to do.. Im building the 3 piece because my
garage is not long enough of a 1 piece wing.
2: What is the weight difference in a Piet built out of Douglas Fir and one
built out of Spruce. Do most people use spruce? I have more time then
money right now but I also want build as light as possible and as safe as
possible.
3: What type of glue? T-88? I'm used to balsa wood and super glue, great
stuff to bad you can't use it for real airplanes.
4: By any chance is there any builders or flying Piets near Sacramento
CA.? I would love to talk to you and see your piet ( that sounds kind of
perverted, Hey let me see your piet).
Well any ways I'm sure I will have more questions when the plans come and
I start to build.
Thank
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing gear follies |
Bill,
Those 2" ash bearers are located to support the landing gear and the
lower bolts to the gear mounting bracket go thruogh the ash wood. We
made the split gear type as shown in the 1933 plans and this landing gear
fit the way it was susposed to, but if the wooden landing gear cals for
different demensions I'd move the ash bearer to suit.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Goin' Shopping |
Mike,
We used 1/8" for the sides and 1/4" on the belly. I think this is what
most of the guys are using. Incidently, we used Finnish Birch and are
quite pleased with it. This is cheaper than the aircraft mohogony and
cuts smoother. I don't know how this cost compares with marine plywood
which is OK to use.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Mike,
We just followed the plans on our Piet. We made a tailwheel assembly
from plans we bought from the guy in New Hampshire and it seems to work
well. The Piet is an extremely well built airplane, built like a tank,
and further beefing up of the structure is not required.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega Landing Gear Question. |
To mill slots you use a machine called a milling
machine. It shouldn't cost too much to have a shop do
it, because it takes just minutes. another method if
you don't have access to a "mill", is to drill through
at each end of where the slot will be, and then use a
dremel tool with a little saw blade to cut between the
holes and then a small file, but it won't be as
straight as using a mill.
--- Conoly wrote:
>
>
> Domenico, What tool or device did you use to "mill"
> these pieces?
>
> Thanks, Bert (Who has an appointment at the machine
> shop Wednesday but still
> wants to know how to do it)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega Landing Gear
> Question.
>
>
> Bellissimo"
>
> >
> > Not sure how you ruined two legs. All I did was
> lock mine into the vise
> with
> > some support under the pipe an started to mill
> through. You should ensure
> > that it is in the middle of the pipe and continue
> milling through to the
> > other side of the pipe on the same stroke. DO NOT
> do one side then the
> > other or you will lose your alignment.
> > And yes any machine shop can do this for you, but
> it gets expensive after
> a
> > while. It's best to do it yourself if you have
> access to a machine shop.
> > Good Luck.
> > Domenic
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips (EUS)" <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se> |
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols! It sounds like you have the
right mindset and skillset to build an Air Camper. I'll try to help with
your questions, although as you'll find on this website, opinions vary
widely.
1. I also started with the wing first, and for the same reasons. I figured
if I can make it through the tedium of wing construction, the rest will be
easy. I built the three piece wing, with a couple of modifications to the
original design, taking advantage of materials that were not available to
Bernard in 1929. The changes I have made to date are:
a. Full span piano hinges (MS20001) on the ailerons for increased
strength and gap sealing
b. Aluminum leading and trailing edges
c. Laminated wing tips to increase stiffness, since they double as
compression struts
d. 3/4" Sitka Spruce spars, with the rear spar routed down to 1/2"
in the web area (saved 3.89 lbs.)
e. Centersection span increased from 29" to 35" to provide
increased fuel capacity (up to 17 gallons)
f. Circular cutout in centersection trailing edge to increase
visibility and ease of entry/egress
I have used aircraft grade spruce throughout, and aircraft grade hardware.
You can save some money shopping at Ace Hardware rather than Aircraft Spruce
and Specialty, but the total will only be a couple of thousand dollars,
which is spread out over several years. Why scrimp when your butt will be
depending on it?
2. The weight difference between spruce and douglas fir is considerable -
about 33% depending on moisture content. Douglas fir is stronger than
spruce, by about 30%, so the overall difference is not terribly significant
if you reduce the size of the components to account for the greater strength
of the material. In actuality, it is difficult to make such changes, and if
all dimensions are kept the same, a spruce Piet will always be lighter than
a fir one. Assuming the total weight of the wood structure is 200 lbs. and
no dimensional changes are made, a fir Piet would weigh about 65 lbs. more
than a spruce one. Weight is very important in these planes. I also prefer
the workability of spruce over fir - spruce doesn't split or splinter nearly
as readily as fir does.
3. As with your second question, the type of glue is sure to spawn endless
debate. I use Resorcinol, since it has been used to build wooden airplanes
since the late 1930's with excellent results. It is the "standard" against
which other glues are measured, and I haven't found any glue that surpasses
it for strength or durability. It does have some drawbacks. It cannot be
used at temperatures below 70 F (when I'm working below that temperature, I
use T-88). It has no gap filling properties, so your joints must fit
precisely (they should anyway - but again, when I've got a bit of gap in a
joint, I use T-88). And it must be clamped under pressure as it cures,
requiring lots of nails (or staples). It is less messy than epoxy, and
cleans up with water. You'll find that most builders use epoxy. If you do
use epoxy, use a good aircraft grade like T-88. By all means, avoid quick
"5-minute" epoxies for structural applications. They won't hold up over
time.
4. Can't help you with this one. If you're ever in North Carolina, you're
welcome to come take a look at my project.
The only other advice I can give you is to buy a number of books, including
the following:
a. The Sportplane Builder
b. Firewall Forward
c. Sportplane Construction Techniques
d. Tony Bingelis on Engines
e. Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
f. AC 43-13B Acceptable Methods, Aircraft Construction and Repair
The first 5 are available from the EAA. The last one is available from the
FAA, or it can be ordered from Aircraft Spruce. it is the "Bible" on how
airplanes shall be built.
Also, if you're not a member of EAA, join. Check out their website at
www.EAA.org.
Best of Luck
Jack Phillips
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris and Carrie Tracy [SMTP:ctracy(at)csus.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:00 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>
>
>
> Hi, My name is Chris Tracy (Sacramento CA.) and I just sent away (Monday)
> for my piet plans (wife even gave her permission. She has no idea what she
> has gotten her self into). Yes I know you have probably seen many a new
> builder come and go but I'm only building parts of an airplane and who
> knows some day I may end up with a completed Piet. No time frame no
> hurry,
> ( That's a lie. I look at Steve E.s pictures of him flying and dream of
> the day that it will be me with the wind blowing through my hair) I have
> been building and designing model airplanes (RC) for 6 years, reading
> KITPLANES for 15 years, in love with airplanes ( older the better ) all my
> life, 32 years, got my pilots license 10 years ago and finally graduated
> from collage (kept taking classes until one day I realized I could
> graduate) . I feel I have the skill needed to build one of these things
> but there is all ways that little bit of fear when your butt will be IN
> the
> thing and not just on the ground. So I really appreciate the pictures and
> information on the web ( aircamper.org ) and all the help that all of you
> have learned the had way (ie mistakes I hope to avoid). To this end I
> have
> a couple of questions:
>
> 1: I will be starting on the wing first because I hate to build wings and
> figured I should build them while my motivation is high. Any suggestions
> would be helpful. Things not to do.. Im building the 3 piece because my
> garage is not long enough of a 1 piece wing.
>
> 2: What is the weight difference in a Piet built out of Douglas Fir and
> one
> built out of Spruce. Do most people use spruce? I have more time then
> money right now but I also want build as light as possible and as safe as
> possible.
>
> 3: What type of glue? T-88? I'm used to balsa wood and super glue, great
> stuff to bad you can't use it for real airplanes.
>
> 4: By any chance is there any builders or flying Piets near Sacramento
> CA.? I would love to talk to you and see your piet ( that sounds kind of
> perverted, Hey let me see your piet).
>
>
> Well any ways I'm sure I will have more questions when the plans come and
> I start to build.
>
> Thank
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike(at)hardaway.com |
There's been a discussion about the purpose of the two pieces of 1x2 ash
transversely mounted inside the bottom of the fuselage. Those two
pieces not only provide a place to bolt the landing gear, they are also
crucially important for carrying the tension loads of the wing struts.
If they get moved a short distance for some reason, be absolutely sure
that the strut mounts (and the intersection of the fuselage-side
verticals) go with them.
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Blocking |
Hi John
This plane is not really a Piet. Best description would be a stretched scout
usin tecniques from a half dozen different wood planes.
The why is this time I wanted to do something entirely my own, with just
some proven ideas and techniques to back up my own ideas.
I am "borrowing" heavily from the original piet designs, but it is no more a
piet than a gn-1.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel Blocking
>
>Mike,
> We just followed the plans on our Piet. We made a tailwheel
assembly
>from plans we bought from the guy in New Hampshire and it seems to work
>well. The Piet is an extremely well built airplane, built like a tank,
>and further beefing up of the structure is not required.
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Good stuff snipped*
I have used aircraft grade spruce throughout, and aircraft grade hardware.
You can save some money shopping at Ace Hardware rather than Aircraft Spruce
and Specialty, but the total will only be a couple of thousand dollars,
which is spread out over several years. Why scrimp when your butt will be
depending on it?
2. The weight difference between spruce and douglas fir is considerable -
about 33% depending on moisture content. Douglas fir is stronger than
spruce, by about 30%, so the overall difference is not terribly significant
if you reduce the size of the components to account for the greater strength
of the material. In actuality, it is difficult to make such changes, and if
all dimensions are kept the same, a spruce Piet will always be lighter than
a fir one. Assuming the total weight of the wood structure is 200 lbs. and
no dimensional changes are made, a fir Piet would weigh about 65 lbs. more
than a spruce one. Weight is very important in these planes. I also prefer
the workability of spruce over fir - spruce doesn't split or splinter nearly
as readily as fir does.
More good stuff snipped.
The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively with
doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was less than
$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per
board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs,
if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
For what it is (or isn't) worth,
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Welcome to the world of Piet! |
To Chris and Carrie Tracy
Welcome to the world of Piet! You will find that the concept of Bernard's
airplane probably drew you, but the Piet people will keep you coming back.
You have already had a few E-mails from others containing good advice. Mark
Dralle, our Webmaster (Matronics) provides a file of past discussions, and
you should surf through these to get most of the answers to your questions.
In most cases, your questions have been asked, and answered, before.
Some people love to build wing ribs. Some of us do not - at least after the
first 15 or 20 ribs. You might want to get in touch with Charlie Rubeck,
RR3-Box 545, Spencer Indiana 47460. Charlie builds the nicest ribs I've
ever seen, and for a very fair price. I don't know his phone or E-mail, but
write to him. He is a longtime Piet guy, and an excellent mechanic.
There are at least 28 Piets registered in California. By direct E-mail, I
am sending you a list of some of these near Sacramento. This does not
include all those Piets that are being built but are not yet registered with
the FAA. There is even a Piet fly-in at Corona CA.
You might want to order Mike Cuy's video - Michael Cuy, 7720 Center Road,
Valley City, Ohio 44280. His E-mail is Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov. This
video will keep you fired up as you replay it over the next year or two.
Lots of building ideas and lots of flying scenes. Good investment.
I hope to see you two in a few years when you fly your Pietenpol either to
EAA AirVenture at Oshkosh or at Sun'N'Fun in Lakeland. Now that's a real
cross-country!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Welcome Chris!
Be prepared for lots of fun and excitement. The piet people are great!
Hope to see your ship flying one day...
Stevee.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Hi Chris
You will love building these planes (I am now on my 3rd one...an Original
Aircamper to plans about 10 years ago..(burned with all woodwork done)..a
Scout to plans a couple years ago (sold tailfeathers and materials because
the offer was so good) and now this contraption.
The more ya do, the better you will get at scrounging and saving $ on them
and have a ball at it. and end up with a good looking airplabe to boot.
First cheapie hint... If you want aluminum rather than wood or fabric covers
for the turtledecks, go to your local newspsper and get some press plates.
They are .010 aluminum, not UV critical and around here 50 cents each. They
are also great for making templates and patterns.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Carrie Tracy <ctracy(at)csus.edu>
Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>
>Hi, My name is Chris Tracy (Sacramento CA.) and I just sent away (Monday)
>for my piet plans (wife even gave her permission. She has no idea what she
>has gotten her self into). Yes I know you have probably seen many a new
>builder come and go but I'm only building parts of an airplane and who
>knows some day I may end up with a completed Piet. No time frame no hurry,
>( That's a lie. I look at Steve E.s pictures of him flying and dream of
>the day that it will be me with the wind blowing through my hair) I have
>been building and designing model airplanes (RC) for 6 years, reading
>KITPLANES for 15 years, in love with airplanes ( older the better ) all my
>life, 32 years, got my pilots license 10 years ago and finally graduated
>from collage (kept taking classes until one day I realized I could
>graduate) . I feel I have the skill needed to build one of these things
>but there is all ways that little bit of fear when your butt will be IN the
>thing and not just on the ground. So I really appreciate the pictures and
>information on the web ( aircamper.org ) and all the help that all of you
>have learned the had way (ie mistakes I hope to avoid). To this end I have
>a couple of questions:
>
>1: I will be starting on the wing first because I hate to build wings and
>figured I should build them while my motivation is high. Any suggestions
>would be helpful. Things not to do.. Im building the 3 piece because my
>garage is not long enough of a 1 piece wing.
>
>2: What is the weight difference in a Piet built out of Douglas Fir and one
>built out of Spruce. Do most people use spruce? I have more time then
>money right now but I also want build as light as possible and as safe as
>possible.
>
>3: What type of glue? T-88? I'm used to balsa wood and super glue, great
>stuff to bad you can't use it for real airplanes.
>
>4: By any chance is there any builders or flying Piets near Sacramento
>CA.? I would love to talk to you and see your piet ( that sounds kind of
>perverted, Hey let me see your piet).
>
>
>Well any ways I'm sure I will have more questions when the plans come and
>I start to build.
>
>Thank
>
>Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Exstrom <exstromb(at)onlinemac.com> |
Chris,
You might be interested in a Piet that will be at the fly-in later this
month at Laughlin, NV. William Wynne has done extensive work on the
Corvair engines for aircraft, notably for the Piet and he will be there
with his Piet from Florida. He will be talking to alot of us who are
interested in the Corvair engine. If you want more info here's the website:
http://www.si-inc.com/MSFly-In2000/
It's actually a fly-in for composite a/c but fly-ins are always worth
visiting, IMHO.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
we are wondering about putting an 0-200 on our piet.
we already have a run out core with 3 cranks and 2 of
them posibly servicable. i was just wondering if any
one currently is flying on an 0-200 and what there
performance numbers were. im guessing it will probly
climb like a homesick angel but probably cruise at
about 80-85mph. if any one has any info plese let me
know.
shad bell
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | I'm still kicking myself |
One of the major things that I would do if I had it to do over again.
Brought this up in an earlier post, but had to do the second wing today, and
I kicked myself again.
For those of you who are building the three piece wing and haven't started
it yet.....
Set up the brackets for the hinge points FIRST!
1 Cut all the spars to shape
2 Snap a chalk line, and mate the center section with each spar ( mark all
mating pieces...left wing/right wing/front spar /rear spar /leading
edge/trailing edge)
3 Get all joints to be zero clearance, and straight.
4 locate and drill brackets.
5 Don't put any ply on the spars yet, for ease of installing ribs
ater( when wing is about done, you can install one side of ply on each spar.
When dry , drill thru existing holes. Then put ply on other sides and when
dry, drill back thru)
6 Then when wings are done, just bolt them together.
I'm just afraid that when it comes time to assemble the plane for
rigging, my wings might be a crooked mess. Theres no such thing as moving
holes in wood a little bit. They'll have to be plugged and redrilled.
You guys that are flying...did you lay these out before or after wing was
built?
walt evans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airplaneman123(at)aol.com |
My doug fir knowledge falls somewhere in the middle: Compared to spruce, doug
fir weighs 24% more, while having 26% more strength than spruce.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-200 piets? |
>
>we are wondering about putting an 0-200 on our piet.
>we already have a run out core with 3 cranks and 2 of
>them posibly servicable. i was just wondering if any
>one currently is flying on an 0-200 and what there
>performance numbers were. im guessing it will probly
>climb like a homesick angel but probably cruise at
>about 80-85mph. if any one has any info plese let me
Michael Brusilow has one on
the front of Mr. Sam. A very nice plane that I looked at
in Saratoga Springs, NY. He used to be on the list and
may still be.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
>
>
>Good stuff snipped*
>
>More good stuff snipped.
>
and I snipped a bit too
>The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively with
>doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was less than
>$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per
>board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs,
>if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
>
I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
as 2x6's so I know this).
If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
price.
Dave
Building ribs in Retsof, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
According to my builders log programme, for my ash and birch fuse, with all
lumber and ply, I am now into this thing for $327.19 Canadian (about 4 cents
USD ;-). Somehow I dont hink I am going to spend another $1200 (plus 45%
exchange--say $2000) for the wings and tail materials.
I am with Steve on the savings for using local sources. That money can pay
for a nice new maple prop. say 72-76", on a soob EA-82 with a 2.21:1
redrive--(another automotive boat anchor, but at least a 100hp one ;-)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>
>>
>>
>>Good stuff snipped*
>>
>>More good stuff snipped.
>>
>
>and I snipped a bit too
>
>>The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively
with
>>doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was less
than
>>$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per
>>board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
15lbs,
>>if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
>>
>
>I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
>difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
>much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
>spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
>to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
>I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
>of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
>the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
>15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
>to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
>ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
>as 2x6's so I know this).
>
>If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
>has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
>learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
>with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
>the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
>price.
>
>Dave
>Building ribs in Retsof, NY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | fat tires ah... la kitfix...again |
I had a feeling that kitfox smooth tires were not a/c type. So went thru
boxes until I found my old info packet on that plane.
A close look at the picts showed that the tires are 4-wheeler atv type,with
maybe the tread turned off smooth. And the wheel rims are 4 or 5 lug bolts
like atv's have. Also a pict of the axle hub looks very much like what a guy
would see on an atv in the cycle shop.
20x7x8 tires are a standard item on 4 wheelers to.
So it seems that the kitfox wheel tire set up could be pretty much a
standard list of items. Available in most any bike /atv shop.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Carrie Tracy" <ctracy(at)csus.edu> |
A big thanks to all that responded. Hear is my first update:
I have obtained:
a. The Sportplane Builder
b. Firewall Forward
c. Sportplane Construction Techniques
d. Tony Bingelis on Engines
Ordered from EAA but nor hear yet
e. Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
will order
f. AC 43-13B Acceptable Methods, Aircraft Construction and Repair.
g: Mike Cuy's video if available.
I very much appreciate the Douglas fir information and will look into it
more closely(can you say LUMBER YARD trip) there used to be tons of lumber
mills in northern CA and we generally have good quality wood hear so I may
get lucky. Once again thanks for all the advise.
Cant weight until the plans arrive. Im like a kid in a candy store.
Chris
----------
> From: Jack Phillips (EUS) <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
> Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:54 AM
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols! It sounds like you have
the
> right mindset and skillset to build an Air Camper. I'll try to help with
> your questions, although as you'll find on this website, opinions vary
> widely.
>
> 1. I also started with the wing first, and for the same reasons. I
figured
> if I can make it through the tedium of wing construction, the rest will
be
> easy. I built the three piece wing, with a couple of modifications to
the
> original design, taking advantage of materials that were not available to
> Bernard in 1929. The changes I have made to date are:
> a. Full span piano hinges (MS20001) on the ailerons for
increased
> strength and gap sealing
> b. Aluminum leading and trailing edges
> c. Laminated wing tips to increase stiffness, since they double
as
> compression struts
> d. 3/4" Sitka Spruce spars, with the rear spar routed down to
1/2"
> in the web area (saved 3.89 lbs.)
> e. Centersection span increased from 29" to 35" to provide
> increased fuel capacity (up to 17 gallons)
> f. Circular cutout in centersection trailing edge to increase
> visibility and ease of entry/egress
>
> I have used aircraft grade spruce throughout, and aircraft grade
hardware.
> You can save some money shopping at Ace Hardware rather than Aircraft
Spruce
> and Specialty, but the total will only be a couple of thousand dollars,
> which is spread out over several years. Why scrimp when your butt will
be
> depending on it?
>
> 2. The weight difference between spruce and douglas fir is considerable
> about 33% depending on moisture content. Douglas fir is stronger than
> spruce, by about 30%, so the overall difference is not terribly
significant
> if you reduce the size of the components to account for the greater
strength
> of the material. In actuality, it is difficult to make such changes, and
if
> all dimensions are kept the same, a spruce Piet will always be lighter
than
> a fir one. Assuming the total weight of the wood structure is 200 lbs.
and
> no dimensional changes are made, a fir Piet would weigh about 65 lbs.
more
> than a spruce one. Weight is very important in these planes. I also
prefer
> the workability of spruce over fir - spruce doesn't split or splinter
nearly
> as readily as fir does.
>
> 3. As with your second question, the type of glue is sure to spawn
endless
> debate. I use Resorcinol, since it has been used to build wooden
airplanes
> since the late 1930's with excellent results. It is the "standard"
against
> which other glues are measured, and I haven't found any glue that
surpasses
> it for strength or durability. It does have some drawbacks. It cannot
be
> used at temperatures below 70 F (when I'm working below that temperature,
I
> use T-88). It has no gap filling properties, so your joints must fit
> precisely (they should anyway - but again, when I've got a bit of gap in
a
> joint, I use T-88). And it must be clamped under pressure as it cures,
> requiring lots of nails (or staples). It is less messy than epoxy, and
> cleans up with water. You'll find that most builders use epoxy. If you
do
> use epoxy, use a good aircraft grade like T-88. By all means, avoid
quick
> "5-minute" epoxies for structural applications. They won't hold up over
> time.
>
> 4. Can't help you with this one. If you're ever in North Carolina,
you're
> welcome to come take a look at my project.
>
> The only other advice I can give you is to buy a number of books,
including
> the following:
> a. The Sportplane Builder
> b. Firewall Forward
> c. Sportplane Construction Techniques
> d. Tony Bingelis on Engines
> e. Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
> f. AC 43-13B Acceptable Methods, Aircraft Construction and
Repair
>
> The first 5 are available from the EAA. The last one is available from
the
> FAA, or it can be ordered from Aircraft Spruce. it is the "Bible" on how
> airplanes shall be built.
>
> Also, if you're not a member of EAA, join. Check out their website at
> www.EAA.org.
>
> Best of Luck
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris and Carrie Tracy [SMTP:ctracy(at)csus.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:00 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi, My name is Chris Tracy (Sacramento CA.) and I just sent away
(Monday)
> > for my piet plans (wife even gave her permission. She has no idea what
she
> > has gotten her self into). Yes I know you have probably seen many a
new
> > builder come and go but I'm only building parts of an airplane and who
> > knows some day I may end up with a completed Piet. No time frame no
> > hurry,
> > ( That's a lie. I look at Steve E.s pictures of him flying and dream
of
> > the day that it will be me with the wind blowing through my hair) I
have
> > been building and designing model airplanes (RC) for 6 years, reading
> > KITPLANES for 15 years, in love with airplanes ( older the better ) all
my
> > life, 32 years, got my pilots license 10 years ago and finally
graduated
> > from collage (kept taking classes until one day I realized I could
> > graduate) . I feel I have the skill needed to build one of these
things
> > but there is all ways that little bit of fear when your butt will be IN
> > the
> > thing and not just on the ground. So I really appreciate the pictures
and
> > information on the web ( aircamper.org ) and all the help that all of
you
> > have learned the had way (ie mistakes I hope to avoid). To this end I
> > have
> > a couple of questions:
> >
> > 1: I will be starting on the wing first because I hate to build wings
and
> > figured I should build them while my motivation is high. Any
suggestions
> > would be helpful. Things not to do.. Im building the 3 piece because
my
> > garage is not long enough of a 1 piece wing.
> >
> > 2: What is the weight difference in a Piet built out of Douglas Fir and
> > one
> > built out of Spruce. Do most people use spruce? I have more time then
> > money right now but I also want build as light as possible and as safe
as
> > possible.
> >
> > 3: What type of glue? T-88? I'm used to balsa wood and super glue,
great
> > stuff to bad you can't use it for real airplanes.
> >
> > 4: By any chance is there any builders or flying Piets near Sacramento
> > CA.? I would love to talk to you and see your piet ( that sounds kind
of
> > perverted, Hey let me see your piet).
> >
> >
> > Well any ways I'm sure I will have more questions when the plans come
and
> > I start to build.
> >
> > Thank
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Dont order 43-13b, get it for free here:
http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Carrie Tracy <ctracy(at)csus.edu>
Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks
>
>
>A big thanks to all that responded. Hear is my first update:
>
>I have obtained:
> a. The Sportplane Builder
> b. Firewall Forward
> c. Sportplane Construction Techniques
> d. Tony Bingelis on Engines
>
>Ordered from EAA but nor hear yet
> e. Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
>
>will order
>f. AC 43-13B Acceptable Methods, Aircraft Construction and Repair.
>g: Mike Cuy's video if available.
>
>I very much appreciate the Douglas fir information and will look into it
>more closely(can you say LUMBER YARD trip) there used to be tons of lumber
>mills in northern CA and we generally have good quality wood hear so I may
>get lucky. Once again thanks for all the advise.
>
>Cant weight until the plans arrive. Im like a kid in a candy store.
>
>Chris
>
>
>----------
>> From: Jack Phillips (EUS) <EUSJCPH(at)am1.ericsson.se>
>> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>> Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:54 AM
>>
>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols! It sounds like you have
>the
>> right mindset and skillset to build an Air Camper. I'll try to help with
>> your questions, although as you'll find on this website, opinions vary
>> widely.
>>
>> 1. I also started with the wing first, and for the same reasons. I
>figured
>> if I can make it through the tedium of wing construction, the rest will
>be
>> easy. I built the three piece wing, with a couple of modifications to
>the
>> original design, taking advantage of materials that were not available to
>> Bernard in 1929. The changes I have made to date are:
>> a. Full span piano hinges (MS20001) on the ailerons for
>increased
>> strength and gap sealing
>> b. Aluminum leading and trailing edges
>> c. Laminated wing tips to increase stiffness, since they double
>as
>> compression struts
>> d. 3/4" Sitka Spruce spars, with the rear spar routed down to
>1/2"
>> in the web area (saved 3.89 lbs.)
>> e. Centersection span increased from 29" to 35" to provide
>> increased fuel capacity (up to 17 gallons)
>> f. Circular cutout in centersection trailing edge to increase
>> visibility and ease of entry/egress
>>
>> I have used aircraft grade spruce throughout, and aircraft grade
>hardware.
>> You can save some money shopping at Ace Hardware rather than Aircraft
>Spruce
>> and Specialty, but the total will only be a couple of thousand dollars,
>> which is spread out over several years. Why scrimp when your butt will
>be
>> depending on it?
>>
>> 2. The weight difference between spruce and douglas fir is considerable
>-
>> about 33% depending on moisture content. Douglas fir is stronger than
>> spruce, by about 30%, so the overall difference is not terribly
>significant
>> if you reduce the size of the components to account for the greater
>strength
>> of the material. In actuality, it is difficult to make such changes, and
>if
>> all dimensions are kept the same, a spruce Piet will always be lighter
>than
>> a fir one. Assuming the total weight of the wood structure is 200 lbs.
>and
>> no dimensional changes are made, a fir Piet would weigh about 65 lbs.
>more
>> than a spruce one. Weight is very important in these planes. I also
>prefer
>> the workability of spruce over fir - spruce doesn't split or splinter
>nearly
>> as readily as fir does.
>>
>> 3. As with your second question, the type of glue is sure to spawn
>endless
>> debate. I use Resorcinol, since it has been used to build wooden
>airplanes
>> since the late 1930's with excellent results. It is the "standard"
>against
>> which other glues are measured, and I haven't found any glue that
>surpasses
>> it for strength or durability. It does have some drawbacks. It cannot
>be
>> used at temperatures below 70 F (when I'm working below that temperature,
>I
>> use T-88). It has no gap filling properties, so your joints must fit
>> precisely (they should anyway - but again, when I've got a bit of gap in
>a
>> joint, I use T-88). And it must be clamped under pressure as it cures,
>> requiring lots of nails (or staples). It is less messy than epoxy, and
>> cleans up with water. You'll find that most builders use epoxy. If you
>do
>> use epoxy, use a good aircraft grade like T-88. By all means, avoid
>quick
>> "5-minute" epoxies for structural applications. They won't hold up over
>> time.
>>
>> 4. Can't help you with this one. If you're ever in North Carolina,
>you're
>> welcome to come take a look at my project.
>>
>> The only other advice I can give you is to buy a number of books,
>including
>> the following:
>> a. The Sportplane Builder
>> b. Firewall Forward
>> c. Sportplane Construction Techniques
>> d. Tony Bingelis on Engines
>> e. Wood Aircraft Building Techniques
>> f. AC 43-13B Acceptable Methods, Aircraft Construction and
>Repair
>>
>> The first 5 are available from the EAA. The last one is available from
>the
>> FAA, or it can be ordered from Aircraft Spruce. it is the "Bible" on how
>> airplanes shall be built.
>>
>> Also, if you're not a member of EAA, join. Check out their website at
>> www.EAA.org.
>>
>> Best of Luck
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Chris and Carrie Tracy [SMTP:ctracy(at)csus.edu]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 12:00 AM
>> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, My name is Chris Tracy (Sacramento CA.) and I just sent away
>(Monday)
>> > for my piet plans (wife even gave her permission. She has no idea what
>she
>> > has gotten her self into). Yes I know you have probably seen many a
>new
>> > builder come and go but I'm only building parts of an airplane and who
>> > knows some day I may end up with a completed Piet. No time frame no
>> > hurry,
>> > ( That's a lie. I look at Steve E.s pictures of him flying and dream
>of
>> > the day that it will be me with the wind blowing through my hair) I
>have
>> > been building and designing model airplanes (RC) for 6 years, reading
>> > KITPLANES for 15 years, in love with airplanes ( older the better ) all
>my
>> > life, 32 years, got my pilots license 10 years ago and finally
>graduated
>> > from collage (kept taking classes until one day I realized I could
>> > graduate) . I feel I have the skill needed to build one of these
>things
>> > but there is all ways that little bit of fear when your butt will be IN
>> > the
>> > thing and not just on the ground. So I really appreciate the pictures
>and
>> > information on the web ( aircamper.org ) and all the help that all of
>you
>> > have learned the had way (ie mistakes I hope to avoid). To this end I
>> > have
>> > a couple of questions:
>> >
>> > 1: I will be starting on the wing first because I hate to build wings
>and
>> > figured I should build them while my motivation is high. Any
>suggestions
>> > would be helpful. Things not to do.. Im building the 3 piece because
>my
>> > garage is not long enough of a 1 piece wing.
>> >
>> > 2: What is the weight difference in a Piet built out of Douglas Fir and
>> > one
>> > built out of Spruce. Do most people use spruce? I have more time then
>> > money right now but I also want build as light as possible and as safe
>as
>> > possible.
>> >
>> > 3: What type of glue? T-88? I'm used to balsa wood and super glue,
>great
>> > stuff to bad you can't use it for real airplanes.
>> >
>> > 4: By any chance is there any builders or flying Piets near Sacramento
>> > CA.? I would love to talk to you and see your piet ( that sounds kind
>of
>> > perverted, Hey let me see your piet).
>> >
>> >
>> > Well any ways I'm sure I will have more questions when the plans come
>and
>> > I start to build.
>> >
>> > Thank
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike,
Good steer! When I get to my faster internet connection tomorrow, I'm
gonna do some downloading. I've lost my new 43.13 since my move, and this'll
get me fixed-up again!
Mucho Thanko!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
If you can get to a genuine lumber mill, ask the yard foreman to help you select
real Western Hemlock. It is a white wood, very fine grain, actually stronger than
spruce and does not splinter as badly as douglas fir. When freshly cut, it smells
like urine...really.
It is often sold as white spruce for construction trim work, such as fascia boards,
etc. You will still want to select it according to aircraft quality standards:
not
less than 8 rings per inch and more is better; not more than a 15 degree slope
from
vertical grain when looked at from the end, and very limited runout, which simply
means is the grain in the same place on both ends of the board. The main problem
you will find is that it will most likely be "green" and very high moisture content,
as this grade of lumber is almost never kiln dried. Read up on Western Hemlock.
You will be pleasantly surprised, especially if you can find some.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Pietenpals, has any of y'all carved your own prop?
I've been working on my prop for a Model A engine, 76" X 48". I'm using the
prop plans drawn by Orrin Hoopman, dated 3/3/33. It has 5 laminates of
Birch. I found a little bit of difference between the blade angle of his
cross sections, at 6" stations, and the chart that I drew, that has the
circumphrence across the bottom, and the vertical line is the pitch in
inches. I'm using the blade angles from the chart. It's comming along
nicely. I plan on building another one, to use for a spare between my
partner (Doug Bryant) and I.
OK, here is my main question: Has anyone used, or have performance specs,
on a Scimitar Prop? I'd like to make this design prop, my 3rd prop project,
but I can't find much info on it, other than what is in the book "Propeller
Making for the Amateur", by Eric Clutton. Here is a very interesting design
that has the tips swept opposite of rotation, and due to the laws of physics,
it will twist to a low blade angle for take-off, and when the prop unloads in
flight it will twist to a higher blade angle for cruise !! An adjustable
blade angle, without any moving parts !! Why doesn't everyone use this
design ??? To be fair, it does require quite a bit more work to build.
See ya'll at the 2nd annual, Y2K Pietenpol Fly - In, at Benton Airport, the
weekend after Labor Day.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com> |
I am flying an 0-200 powered Pietenpol Air Camper long fuselage
version built in 1972 by the Hostein Bros. of Ontario, Canada. It was
converted from an A65 by it's former owner Peter McHugh who intended to
fly on floats.
For sure the ground run is short and the climb is spectacular and I
generally cruise at 80 on advice of the former owner but it will easily
go 100 if the air is smooth but the fuel burn goes up dramatically.
If you already have the engine, go for it, otherwise an A 65 is
enough and cheaper to run.
My prop is an Aymar DeMuth I bought for my homebuilt Piet and put on
this one after vandals burned the Rickards prop that hauled her around
for many years. She used to be C-FCMG and now wears NX888MG.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
I plane to use skinned tires from LEAF, but found some smooth(not
skinned) really fat tundra atv. tires 21x12x8 at a place called Flying K
Ent. 3403 Arthur Street Caldwell Idaho 83605 208-455-7529.
www.sklyraider.com for about 60 bucks. They use them on their Sky
Raider airplane. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
So...what hoops did you have to go through to import a Canadian homebuilt
into the States? I had heard that this was not possible! Inquiring minds
want to know!
Ken
On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Thomas E Bowdler wrote:
>
> I am flying an 0-200 powered Pietenpol Air Camper long fuselage
> version built in 1972 by the Hostein Bros. of Ontario, Canada. It was
> converted from an A65 by it's former owner Peter McHugh who intended to
> fly on floats.
> For sure the ground run is short and the climb is spectacular and I
> generally cruise at 80 on advice of the former owner but it will easily
> go 100 if the air is smooth but the fuel burn goes up dramatically.
> If you already have the engine, go for it, otherwise an A 65 is
> enough and cheaper to run.
> My prop is an Aymar DeMuth I bought for my homebuilt Piet and put on
> this one after vandals burned the Rickards prop that hauled her around
> for many years. She used to be C-FCMG and now wears NX888MG.
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-200 piets? |
>
>we are wondering about putting an 0-200 on our piet.
. i was just wondering if any
>one currently is flying on an 0-200 and what there
>performance numbers were. >
>
I have been flying with an 0-200 for nearly ten years.
It takes off quick ( never timed it ), climbs 5-600 ft/min at about 55
h( maybe a little more ) & flys at 80 mph @ 2250 rpm. At that rpm it burns
between 4.5 & 5 gls/hr.
Right rudder is needed on take off to overcome engine torque.Also the engine
is pitched slightly down & to the right.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" , "5k"
| Subject: | Shoulder Harness |
Hi Guys
I need to drill a locator hole to put the cable in for the shoulder
harnesses before I glue the foam on.
I just sat in (well, put my butt at seat level) and the base of my neck is
smack in the center of the "headrest" fairing.
(its not a bo-bo, I am so long in the body I knew it would look riducoulsly
out of proportion if I did a full "headrest" headrest.
How low can I go below the base of the neck without risking compression
fractures in the event of a sudden stop? anybody got experience designing
this location?
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Canadian homebuilts go the US all the time, all it'll take is a "new" final
inspection, if that.
Its comming the other way its impossible. We have a minimum of 2, and
usually 3 inspections up here. (pre-close on any closed structures,
pre-cover and final.)--and the $2000 cost that goes with the
inspections/registration
Unless its a "basic ultralight" then there are NO inspections required, and
only about $150 to register it.
Guess what catogory mine is
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0-200
>
>So...what hoops did you have to go through to import a Canadian homebuilt
>into the States? I had heard that this was not possible! Inquiring minds
>want to know!
>
>Ken
>
>On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Thomas E Bowdler wrote:
>
>>
>> I am flying an 0-200 powered Pietenpol Air Camper long fuselage
>> version built in 1972 by the Hostein Bros. of Ontario, Canada. It was
>> converted from an A65 by it's former owner Peter McHugh who intended to
>> fly on floats.
>> For sure the ground run is short and the climb is spectacular and I
>> generally cruise at 80 on advice of the former owner but it will easily
>> go 100 if the air is smooth but the fuel burn goes up dramatically.
>> If you already have the engine, go for it, otherwise an A 65 is
>> enough and cheaper to run.
>> My prop is an Aymar DeMuth I bought for my homebuilt Piet and put on
>> this one after vandals burned the Rickards prop that hauled her around
>> for many years. She used to be C-FCMG and now wears NX888MG.
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Importing/exporting of homebuilts |
I knew that importing planes from the US was not possible, but I did not
realize that there was no pre-cover inspection in the US. That is good
news (for me, anyway). If I ever decide to sell the Christavia, I'll have
a much larger "customer base" to work with.
Most fabric planes, such as my Cristavia, require only 2 inspections, a
pre-cover and a pre-flight. Metal planes will get into multiple pre-cover
inspections as they close in various sections of the plane.
Ken
On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Mike Lund wrote:
>
> Canadian homebuilts go the US all the time, all it'll take is a "new" final
> inspection, if that.
>
> Its comming the other way its impossible. We have a minimum of 2, and
> usually 3 inspections up here. (pre-close on any closed structures,
> pre-cover and final.)--and the $2000 cost that goes with the
> inspections/registration
>
> Unless its a "basic ultralight" then there are NO inspections required, and
> only about $150 to register it.
>
> Guess what catogory mine is
>
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0-200
>
>
> >
> >So...what hoops did you have to go through to import a Canadian homebuilt
> >into the States? I had heard that this was not possible! Inquiring minds
> >want to know!
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Thomas E Bowdler wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am flying an 0-200 powered Pietenpol Air Camper long fuselage
> >> version built in 1972 by the Hostein Bros. of Ontario, Canada. It was
> >> converted from an A65 by it's former owner Peter McHugh who intended to
> >> fly on floats.
> >> For sure the ground run is short and the climb is spectacular and I
> >> generally cruise at 80 on advice of the former owner but it will easily
> >> go 100 if the air is smooth but the fuel burn goes up dramatically.
> >> If you already have the engine, go for it, otherwise an A 65 is
> >> enough and cheaper to run.
> >> My prop is an Aymar DeMuth I bought for my homebuilt Piet and put on
> >> this one after vandals burned the Rickards prop that hauled her around
> >> for many years. She used to be C-FCMG and now wears NX888MG.
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
> >Calgary, Alberta, Canada
> >Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
> ><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Props
Hi, Chuck
You have really piqued my interest with this post. Can you tell
me a little more about how you have gone about the prop carving?
Such as, books, equipment needed and where you obtained them? I
am also interested in the scimitar prop as it makes some sense. I
saw one off an old Fox moth a long time ago ( on floats and rally
wierd sounding) tThe guy used to carry dynamite into the noth
country for his prospecting. You always mentally ducked when he
flew over.
Best regards, and thanks for the post
-=Ian=-
>
> Hey Pietenpals, has any of y'all carved your own prop?
> I've been working on my prop for a Model A engine, 76" X 48".
I'm using the
> prop plans drawn by Orrin Hoopman, dated 3/3/33. It has 5
laminates of
> Birch. I found a little bit of difference between the blade
angle of his
> cross sections, at 6" stations, and the chart that I drew, that
has the
> circumphrence across the bottom, and the vertical line is the
pitch in
> inches. I'm using the blade angles from the chart. It's
comming along
> nicely. I plan on building another one, to use for a spare
between my
> partner (Doug Bryant) and I.
> OK, here is my main question: Has anyone used, or have
performance specs,
> on a Scimitar Prop? I'd like to make this design prop, my 3rd
prop project,
> but I can't find much info on it, other than what is in the
book "Propeller
> Making for the Amateur", by Eric Clutton. Here is a very
interesting design
> that has the tips swept opposite of rotation, and due to the
laws of physics,
> it will twist to a low blade angle for take-off, and when the
prop unloads in
> flight it will twist to a higher blade angle for cruise !! An
adjustable
> blade angle, without any moving parts !! Why doesn't everyone
use this
> design ??? To be fair, it does require quite a bit more work
to build.
> See ya'll at the 2nd annual, Y2K Pietenpol Fly - In, at Benton
Airport, the
> weekend after Labor Day.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Importing/exporting of homebuilts |
Actually ken,
You buy "aircraft parts" in the US, bring them over as such, then register a
basic ultralight after a suitable wait.
Now, did you biuld one in Canada using some parts you brought over....or did
you just re-assemble a US aircraft ??????
was 51% of the work done in Canada????
Innocent 'till proven guilty
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Importing/exporting of homebuilts
>
>I knew that importing planes from the US was not possible, but I did not
>realize that there was no pre-cover inspection in the US. That is good
>news (for me, anyway). If I ever decide to sell the Christavia, I'll have
>a much larger "customer base" to work with.
>
>Most fabric planes, such as my Cristavia, require only 2 inspections, a
>pre-cover and a pre-flight. Metal planes will get into multiple pre-cover
>inspections as they close in various sections of the plane.
>
>Ken
>
>On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Mike Lund wrote:
>
>>
>> Canadian homebuilts go the US all the time, all it'll take is a "new"
final
>> inspection, if that.
>>
>> Its comming the other way its impossible. We have a minimum of 2, and
>> usually 3 inspections up here. (pre-close on any closed structures,
>> pre-cover and final.)--and the $2000 cost that goes with the
>> inspections/registration
>>
>> Unless its a "basic ultralight" then there are NO inspections required,
and
>> only about $150 to register it.
>>
>> Guess what catogory mine is
>>
>> Mike
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 1:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0-200
>>
>>
>> >
>> >So...what hoops did you have to go through to import a Canadian
homebuilt
>> >into the States? I had heard that this was not possible! Inquiring minds
>> >want to know!
>> >
>> >Ken
>> >
>> >On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Thomas E Bowdler wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I am flying an 0-200 powered Pietenpol Air Camper long fuselage
>> >> version built in 1972 by the Hostein Bros. of Ontario, Canada. It
was
>> >> converted from an A65 by it's former owner Peter McHugh who intended
to
>> >> fly on floats.
>> >> For sure the ground run is short and the climb is spectacular and
I
>> >> generally cruise at 80 on advice of the former owner but it will
easily
>> >> go 100 if the air is smooth but the fuel burn goes up dramatically.
>> >> If you already have the engine, go for it, otherwise an A 65 is
>> >> enough and cheaper to run.
>> >> My prop is an Aymar DeMuth I bought for my homebuilt Piet and put
on
>> >> this one after vandals burned the Rickards prop that hauled her around
>> >> for many years. She used to be C-FCMG and now wears NX888MG.
>> >> Tom
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>> >Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>> >Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
>> ><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
mark mastrangelo wrote:
>
>
And your point, Mark?(grin)
Thanks for all!
DannyMac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harness |
Any at all below your shoulders will be a risk for compression of your back
in a crash. The answer is, just do the best you can. Any shoulder harness
is better than nothing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
To add to the great doug fir debate...
For those of you having difficulty locating acceptable doug fir, try
avoiding the lumber yard and look for houses that supply the furniture
building or door building industries and trades. High quality, vertical
grain doug fir, is a staple in the door building industry, and is in vogue
right now in furniture building.
Stevee has seen the stuff I'm using. Bye the way, I paid $3.35 (usd) per
board foot for the stuff I bought.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
>
> >
> >
> >Good stuff snipped*
> >
> >More good stuff snipped.
> >
>
> and I snipped a bit too
>
> >The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively
with
> >doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was less
than
> >$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75
per
> >board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
15lbs,
> >if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
> >
>
> I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
> difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
> much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
> spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
> to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
> I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
> of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
> the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
> 15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
> to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
> ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
> as 2x6's so I know this).
>
> If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
> has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
> learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
> with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
> the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
> price.
>
> Dave
> Building ribs in Retsof, NY
>
>
>
>
>
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
To add to the great doug fir debate...
For those of you having difficulty locating acceptable doug fir, try
avoiding the lumber yard and look for houses that supply the furniture
building or door building industries and trades. High quality, vertical
grain doug fir, is a staple in the door building industry, and is in vogue
right now in furniture building.
Stevee has seen the stuff I'm using. Bye the way, I paid $3.35 (usd) per
board foot for the stuff I bought.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
>
> >
> >
> >Good stuff snipped*
> >
> >More good stuff snipped.
> >
>
> and I snipped a bit too
>
> >The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively
with
> >doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was less
than
> >$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75
per
> >board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
15lbs,
> >if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
> >
>
> I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
> difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
> much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
> spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
> to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
> I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
> of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
> the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
> 15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
> to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
> ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
> as 2x6's so I know this).
>
> If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
> has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
> learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
> with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
> the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
> price.
>
> Dave
> Building ribs in Retsof, NY
>
>
>
>
>
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I'm in the process of building ribs and thinking onward to the spar. Has
anyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make a
single piece spar? Seems to me it would be very strong and the same size as
in plans, but what about weight?
I would appreciate any input.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega Landing Gear Question. |
Hi,
I used a 4 fluted milling bit, On an American Index milling machine. I
pre-drilled the start hole with 3/16 then 1/4 inch plain drill. The 1/4"
mill bit fit nicely in that hole then milled the slot required. If the bit
is long enough you can mill both the top surface and the bottom at the same
time. Otherwise do one at the time without moving the piece of work.
Good luck,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Ken,
Remember last year I told you a Canadian Piet. was going south of the
border but couldn't say anything about it. It's now a done deal. Turned out
not to be that difficult.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
I have been thinking on the same lines....
Top quality Mahogony is cheap around here, as is 1/8" birch ply.
I think I am going to use a 3/4" mahogony core, with 1/8" birch either side.
I just havent decided whether or not to rout it out yet. Gotta get this fuse
done first...
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
>
>I'm in the process of building ribs and thinking onward to the spar. Has
>anyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make a
>single piece spar? Seems to me it would be very strong and the same size as
>in plans, but what about weight?
>I would appreciate any input.
>Dick Navratil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harness |
Mike,
I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out very
poor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCO
tailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fitting
located onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,
at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind the
pilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967 supplementary
plans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that looks
like an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rear
turtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from a
child's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the back
seat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The
"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below the
wood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was on
top of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degree
angle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place the
structure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a 3/4"
wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut a
length of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install between
the tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in this
structure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tighten
the turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluck
it, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try to
move the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find you
can't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to the
side clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.
Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I have no
photo's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought of
taking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. I
only got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.
Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantage of
this idea.
Regards,
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Richard,
Check Drawing #5 of the plans. I think you mean 3/4" not 1/2". Your finished
dimensions should be 3/4" high X 1.0" wide for the caps. At least that's
what I see for the routed spar. Should be no problem building up a spar with
that method. You'll sure save a lot of money and weight. Each of my sitka
spruce spars cost me $265.00 cdn in 1987 $'s.
Regards,
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/2/00 7:52:44 PM Central Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< Has
anyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make a
single piece spar? >>
I don't believe this spar would be strong enough. Every other layer in
plywood is at a right angle, therefore there would NOT be enough grain
running the length of the spar. Also, the longest (and costly) plywood I've
seen, is only 10', which means it would have additional scarf splices. Lets
save money and weight in places other than the primary structure. The
spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/2/00 4:14:11 PM Central Standard Time,
iholland@microage-tb.com writes:
<< Can you tell
me a little more about how you have gone about the prop carving?
Such as, books, equipment needed and where you obtained them? I
am also interested in the scimitar prop as it makes some sense. >>
The only book I've seen on prop carving, is the one that I mentioned in
my post. I got it, and the plans by Orrin, from Doug Bryant. I think both
are available thru the EAA. I had my blank laminated by Gus Wiebe, in
Halstead KS. He cut out the rough shape on his band saw, and drilled the 1"
center hole, and four mount holes. I'm doing the rest of the carving with
the ol' wood chistle, belt sander, rasp, disk grinder, and finish it by hand.
I cut the blade angles on the flat side, at each 6" station with a hand
saw, then blend the twist between the stations. The flat side is actually
referred to as the 'face', although it faces aft , its the side that 'faces
the pilot' (that's what they told us in A&P school). I bought some
uni-directional Kevlar from Aircraft Spruce, and will use it on the leading
edge of the prop. Kevlar is highly abrasive resistant, and much easier to
apply than the brass tipping.
I'm still looking for info on that scimitar design, so far I've searched
the web, and the EAA sight, and e-mailed EAA for info on it, but no luck.
Ian, I could probably scan the pages of this book, about the scimitar, and
send it to ya direct e-mail, if ya would like to see it.
Was the prop on the Fox Moth a wood prop? What engine did it have? Do
ya think the wierd sound was from the prop?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harness |
Thanks Dominic, its clear as mud
Actually, I did a sketch by your description and it looks fairly easy to rig
up. I am using the 1933 Scout type tail gear (double swing arm with a
compression spring at the tailpost) but it'll be easy enough to adapt.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Domenico Bellissimo <adbell(at)yesic.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
>
>Mike,
>I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out very
>poor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCO
>tailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fitting
>located onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,
>at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind the
>pilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967
supplementary
>plans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that looks
>like an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rear
>turtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from a
>child's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the back
>seat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The
>"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below the
>wood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was on
>top of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degree
>angle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place the
>structure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a
3/4"
>wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut a
>length of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install between
>the tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in this
>structure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tighten
>the turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluck
>it, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try to
>move the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find you
>can't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to the
>side clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.
>Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I have
no
>photo's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought of
>taking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. I
>only got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.
>
>Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantage
of
>this idea.
>
>Regards,
>Dom.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
Chuck,
Do you plan on building up the top and bottom of the spar to 1" or are you
going to leave it at 3/4"? If the latter, did you modify your ribs.
Thanks,
Joe
>spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Could someone send me the phone number of the wood supply company in Calgary?
I need to order some more spruce and Aircraft Spruce is painfully slow.
Thanks,
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Shoulder Harness |
At risk of opening another can of worms, it seems the Piet is of such
early design that a tidy shoulder harness installation would be
difficult.
When I sit in our Piet, and I'm only 5'6" tall, about 4~5" of my
shoulder is above the top of the turtle deck. Likewise for the others
in our group. So we decided not to install a shoulder harness.
I'm thinking that maybe two 1" sq pieces of wood, say D. Fir, with
one end on the lower longeron and meeting together above the turtle
deck (forming an inverted V) with a short 1 X 1 X 6" on top and with
wedges below and outboard to the brace it to the "V"s. Then the
harness could mount over this and go back down to some point in the
aft fuselage to anchor, with appropriate wedges and gussets to help
spread the load. Lord help us we never need to put it to the test.
This could or couldn't be covered with a fairing depending upon
personal tastes.
This would get the anchor point above the pilot's shoulders to keep
the compression factor out of the picture, and it's not a pretty
picture.
There again it's personal preference and we chose to stay with the
drawings to give our Piet an antique look to it.
Rodger
Piet in progress (8 years into an 18 month project)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harness |
with the original turtledeck it would be impossible to do.
I did mine with a built-in headres (like a Hatz, or the Centerfold of the
Scout in the 1933 FGM (now THATS a centerfold )
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger & Betty <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>At risk of opening another can of worms, it seems the Piet is of such
>early design that a tidy shoulder harness installation would be
>difficult.
>
>When I sit in our Piet, and I'm only 5'6" tall, about 4~5" of my
>shoulder is above the top of the turtle deck. Likewise for the others
>in our group. So we decided not to install a shoulder harness.
>
>I'm thinking that maybe two 1" sq pieces of wood, say D. Fir, with
>one end on the lower longeron and meeting together above the turtle
>deck (forming an inverted V) with a short 1 X 1 X 6" on top and with
>wedges below and outboard to the brace it to the "V"s. Then the
>harness could mount over this and go back down to some point in the
>aft fuselage to anchor, with appropriate wedges and gussets to help
>spread the load. Lord help us we never need to put it to the test.
>This could or couldn't be covered with a fairing depending upon
>personal tastes.
>
>This would get the anchor point above the pilot's shoulders to keep
>the compression factor out of the picture, and it's not a pretty
>picture.
>
>There again it's personal preference and we chose to stay with the
>drawings to give our Piet an antique look to it.
>
>Rodger
>Piet in progress (8 years into an 18 month project)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Western Aircraft Supplies (403) 250-1955
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 TomTravis(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Could someone send me the phone number of the wood supply company in Calgary?
> I need to order some more spruce and Aircraft Spruce is painfully slow.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Ken,
Thanks for the phone number.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | to:John Langston, Pipe Creek |
John,
When you get this note, could you contact me offline? I have someone that
may want to contact you. Sorry to use the Piet list, but I lost John's email
address.
Thanks,
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark mastrangelo <markmastra(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | leaving list to go fly |
can any one help me? i found what i needed and now
want to go fly my plane,but all i have time for is one
thing and currently it is erasing the dozens of e
mails that i don't need to read any more.
mark mastrangelo
________________________________________________________________________________
Chuck, thanks for the info. If you wouldn't mind scanning, I
would appreciate it. I will also forward anything that I turn up
your way.
E-mail is iholland@microage-tb.com
The prop was very quiet as I remember it. The motor sounded
rough, constantly missing and back firing. Very distinctive. I
believe the plane ended up in the museum in Rockport? in Ottawa.
It was used by Max Ward at one time. Jack Edwards flew it out of
Kenora in the early 50's. There was a big to do about painting it
up and flying it to Ottawa. Some wher I have a picture of it
coming out of the Lake of the Woods. Three consecutive loops and
one tall tree caused quite a splash.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Props
>
> In a message dated 2/2/00 4:14:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> iholland@microage-tb.com writes:
>
> << Can you tell
> me a little more about how you have gone about the prop
carving?
> Such as, books, equipment needed and where you obtained them?
I
> am also interested in the scimitar prop as it makes some
sense. >>
>
> The only book I've seen on prop carving, is the one that I
mentioned in
> my post. I got it, and the plans by Orrin, from Doug Bryant.
I think both
> are available thru the EAA. I had my blank laminated by Gus
Wiebe, in
> Halstead KS. He cut out the rough shape on his band saw, and
drilled the 1"
> center hole, and four mount holes. I'm doing the rest of the
carving with
> the ol' wood chistle, belt sander, rasp, disk grinder, and
finish it by hand.
> I cut the blade angles on the flat side, at each 6" station
with a hand
> saw, then blend the twist between the stations. The flat side
is actually
> referred to as the 'face', although it faces aft , its the side
that 'faces
> the pilot' (that's what they told us in A&P school). I bought
some
> uni-directional Kevlar from Aircraft Spruce, and will use it on
the leading
> edge of the prop. Kevlar is highly abrasive resistant, and
much easier to
> apply than the brass tipping.
> I'm still looking for info on that scimitar design, so far
I've searched
> the web, and the EAA sight, and e-mailed EAA for info on it,
but no luck.
> Ian, I could probably scan the pages of this book, about the
scimitar, and
> send it to ya direct e-mail, if ya would like to see it.
> Was the prop on the Fox Moth a wood prop? What engine did
it have? Do
> ya think the wierd sound was from the prop?
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "phil phillips" <pphillips(at)kalama.com> |
Do any of you know of a Kinner, R-55 engine for sale? As long as it mikes
out satisfactory for rebuild would be OK.
Phil Phillips
============================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet aircamper" ,
"piet" ,
"ragwing"
| Subject: | Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat. |
So i CAN GET PAID
What we have is new 1/4" ply decks, stuctural.
Butt joint... because if we scarffed it, when the spread preassure on the
hull is is relasead, they will just skip over each other, and th joint will
be (*&
%$$#$
What is the scab width, per side, for a butt joint to keep structural
integrety?????
I loaned out my books, so cant get an answer there
Help.....
Please.......
Mike
Airplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.
The more money you throw at them,
the faster they fly.
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Canadian Homebuilt to US |
| From: | Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com> |
So would you really like someone who did it to tell you or would you
prefer to guess, speculate, pontificate, go by heresay, rumor or whatever
like many of you do when "innovating" on your Pietenpol construction?
Yes, it can be done.
Adios!
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Does anyone know a good source for the GM Corvair Chassis Manual ST-59?
I thought I could pick it up locally but having a hard time finding one.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian Homebuilt to US |
when the state makes life impossoble.......
Go underground and fuc# the state. I will still get my stuff from the south
side of the line. As will most.
(PS.... The US continginent has access to much better materials, at lower
prices than we do... I suspect the reason for the import ban is embarisment)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas E Bowdler <bowdler(at)juno.com>
Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Canadian Homebuilt to US
>
> So would you really like someone who did it to tell you or would you
>prefer to guess, speculate, pontificate, go by heresay, rumor or whatever
>like many of you do when "innovating" on your Pietenpol construction?
> Yes, it can be done.
>Adios!
>Tom
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian Homebuilt to US |
> So would you really like someone who did it to tell you or would you
>prefer to guess, speculate, pontificate, go by heresay, rumor or whatever
>like many of you do when "innovating" on your Pietenpol construction?
> Yes, it can be done.
And, I will give them a great big kiss...
which, is better by far, than a.......... F(*& by the government
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks for the input on my spar idea. My thought was to build exactly to
the dimensions on the plan. I did make a mistake on the cap strip
dimension. I would rout it by using full ply pieces in sections which the
plan calls for un-routed and 1/4x3/4 both top and bottom. The 90 degree
issue is a good point. I wonder if 45 degree layup is available in 1/4"?
Since I have hangar space, one piece seems like a good idea to eliminate
one more possible problem. I'm not worried about length of individual
pieces, I think 8' sections would be just fine.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/3/00 8:36:49 AM Central Standard Time,
jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Do you plan on building up the top and bottom of the spar to 1" or are
you
going to leave it at 3/4"? If the latter, did you modify your ribs. >>
Hey Joe, the only thing I have to do to the wing, is the 4" tape on the
leading edge then paint.
I used 1/8" shims on the front and back of each rib / spar location, on
both front and rear spar. This kept the spars spaced properly for the
cabane struts. On my next wing, I will modify the wing rib jig, to accept
the 3/4" spar.
Here is the things I would do differently when I build my next wing :
The ribs will now be referred to as 'L1'- Left 1st rib. 'R1' - Right 1st
rib. There are 14 ribs on each side. The center rib will be referred to as
'C'.
Build new rib jig, so that the gussets and the upright x next to the
spars, are spaced 28 1/16" to 28 1/8" apart. This should be the exact
dimention between the spars, with the exception of the 3 center ribs, and the
outboard ribs where the struts attach. These locations have 1/8" plywood
doublers on each side of the spar, so they will have to be 1" openings for
the spars.
Leave the gussets off in 2 locations. On the lower forward side of the
front spar, and on the aft upper side of the aft spar. Install these
gussets after the ribs have been assembled to the spars. This will ensure
easy assembly, and a nice tight fit.
Other gussets to be left off are on the ribs at the inboard aileron
station. On this rib, leave the outboard (trailing edge) gusset off, for
the later installation of the aileron blank plywood (1/16").
The center section of the wing, forward of the front spar, is designed so
as to allow the top of the radiator to be within the wing. Two 1/8" plywood
L.E. ribs, are spaced evenly between, and paralell to, R1 and L1. These
ribs will accept the 1/16" plywood L.E. (on top), and the 1/32" plywood
(within the radiator cavity). I built my wing in this manner to reduce
cooling system drag, and to reduce weight. I will support the bottom of my
radiator with a bracked attached to the front cabane struts, and allow the
cavity behind the leading edge to retain the radiator for & aft.
I hope this helps.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leaving list to go fly |
Mark,
Just go to the bottom of this email and find "subscribe". Go to that,
follow the prompts, and you're done with all those hours of tedium deleting
these messages!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Shoulder Harness |
Just throwing something in on the subject,
You can see a picture of how I did my rear seat harness here:
http://aircamper.byu.edu/piet2.htm
Stevee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Exstrom <exstromb(at)onlinemac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Manual |
>
>Does anyone know a good source for the GM Corvair Chassis Manual ST-59?
>I thought I could pick it up locally but having a hard time finding one.
>Carl
Carl,
I got mine at eBay, you might try that auction.
Dan Exstrom
Dan Exstrom McMinnville, OR
Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get
used to the idea." -Robert A. Heinlein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Tomblin" <tombling(at)mercyships.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Manual |
Clark's corvair parts at www.corvair.com
Dan Exstrom wrote:
>
> >
> >Does anyone know a good source for the GM Corvair Chassis Manual ST-59?
> >I thought I could pick it up locally but having a hard time finding one.
> >Carl
>
> Carl,
>
> I got mine at eBay, you might try that auction.
>
> Dan Exstrom
> Dan Exstrom McMinnville, OR
>
> Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get
> used to the idea." -Robert A. Heinlein
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
I remember yall were talking about another type of tubing (Feeble brain
will not let me remember what kind) Other than 4130. Has anyone built
their Fuse with this kind?
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Manual |
Try Clark's Corvair. They're on the net. They have all kinds of manuals.
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | propeller makeing |
There are two good books that I have found on building propellers.
Propeller making for the Amature
Elements of Sportplane Design.
The 1st book used to be available from EAA, but may be out of print.
The 2nd was sold from the back of Kitplanes magazine, and may still be
available. If not, maybe write the address if you can find it in an old
issue.
I bought my issue about 10 yrs ago.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Thanks everyone,,, I called clarks and ordered a manual. ( I got their
catalog too,,,, )
I also found a good corvair connection in the area,,, hopefully I will have
65 110 hp engine
by next week.
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Dallas/Ftworth area. |
All living near the dallas ft worth area please write me.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi List.....
Allow me to toss another question into wringer.... I ran across some
excellent Juniper a couple of months back at a custom yacht builder. The
stuff is beautiful, very strait tight grained and light. I did some tests
and found it to be stronger and lighter than a couple of pieces a spruce
that came from a friends kit. I've been giving it some consideration and
wonder if anyone has built a Piet with it before.
Any input to help this novice out would be appreciated
Thanks
Eric
>From: "mboynton(at)excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a
>201-229-119-114) with SMTP for" ;
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Doug Fir, was RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:56:18 -0800 (PST)
>
>vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP for
>;
>
>To add to the great doug fir debate...
>
>For those of you having difficulty locating acceptable doug fir, try
>avoiding the lumber yard and look for houses that supply the furniture
>building or door building industries and trades. High quality, vertical
>grain doug fir, is a staple in the door building industry, and is in vogue
>right now in furniture building.
>
>Stevee has seen the stuff I'm using. Bye the way, I paid $3.35 (usd) per
>board foot for the stuff I bought.
>
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, AZ
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Good stuff snipped*
> > >
> > >More good stuff snipped.
> > >
> >
> > and I snipped a bit too
> >
> > >The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively
>with
> > >doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was
>less
>than
> > >$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75
>per
> > >board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
>15lbs,
> > >if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
> > >
> >
> > I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
> > difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
> > much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
> > spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
> > to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
> > I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
> > of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
> > the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
> > 15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
> > to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
> > ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
> > as 2x6's so I know this).
> >
> > If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
> > has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
> > learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
> > with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
> > the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
> > price.
> >
> > Dave
> > Building ribs in Retsof, NY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi List.....
Allow me to toss another question into wringer.... I ran across some
excellent Juniper a couple of months back at a custom yacht builder. The
stuff is beautiful, very strait tight grained and light. I did some tests
and found it to be stronger and lighter than a couple of pieces a spruce
that came from a friends kit. I've been giving it some consideration and
wonder if anyone has built a Piet with it before.
Any input to help this novice out would be appreciated
Thanks
Eric
>From: "mboynton(at)excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a
>201-229-119-114) with SMTP for" ;
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Doug Fir, was RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:56:18 -0800 (PST)
>
>vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP for
>;
>
>To add to the great doug fir debate...
>
>For those of you having difficulty locating acceptable doug fir, try
>avoiding the lumber yard and look for houses that supply the furniture
>building or door building industries and trades. High quality, vertical
>grain doug fir, is a staple in the door building industry, and is in vogue
>right now in furniture building.
>
>Stevee has seen the stuff I'm using. Bye the way, I paid $3.35 (usd) per
>board foot for the stuff I bought.
>
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, AZ
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Good stuff snipped*
> > >
> > >More good stuff snipped.
> > >
> >
> > and I snipped a bit too
> >
> > >The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet exclusively
>with
> > >doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was
>less
>than
> > >$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75
>per
> > >board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
>15lbs,
> > >if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
> > >
> >
> > I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
> > difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
> > much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
> > spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
> > to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
> > I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
> > of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
> > the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
> > 15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
> > to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
> > ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
> > as 2x6's so I know this).
> >
> > If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
> > has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
> > learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
> > with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
> > the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
> > price.
> >
> > Dave
> > Building ribs in Retsof, NY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Why not check our the various woods and properties at...
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Ingraham <iflyul(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, February 05, 2000 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: Doug Fir, etc,etc,etc.....was RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>
>Hi List.....
>
>Allow me to toss another question into wringer.... I ran across some
>excellent Juniper a couple of months back at a custom yacht builder. The
>stuff is beautiful, very strait tight grained and light. I did some tests
>and found it to be stronger and lighter than a couple of pieces a spruce
>that came from a friends kit. I've been giving it some consideration and
>wonder if anyone has built a Piet with it before.
>
>Any input to help this novice out would be appreciated
>
>Thanks
>
>Eric
>
>
>>From: "mboynton(at)excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.31a
>>201-229-119-114) with SMTP for" ;
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Doug Fir, was RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello
>>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:56:18 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>vM.4.01.02.31a 201-229-119-114) with SMTP for
>>;
>>
>>To add to the great doug fir debate...
>>
>>For those of you having difficulty locating acceptable doug fir, try
>>avoiding the lumber yard and look for houses that supply the furniture
>>building or door building industries and trades. High quality, vertical
>>grain doug fir, is a staple in the door building industry, and is in vogue
>>right now in furniture building.
>>
>>Stevee has seen the stuff I'm using. Bye the way, I paid $3.35 (usd) per
>>board foot for the stuff I bought.
>>
>>
>>Mark Boynton
>>Gilbert, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Good stuff snipped*
>> > >
>> > >More good stuff snipped.
>> > >
>> >
>> > and I snipped a bit too
>> >
>> > >The above statement is simply exagerated. I built my piet
exclusively
>>with
>> > >doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds. Total cost for the fir was
>>less
>>than
>> > >$600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75
>>per
>> > >board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than
>>15lbs,
>> > >if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I hate to disagree with Steve but while I think he has the weight
>> > difference in the ballpark the price difference in my area is
>> > much less. I found the invoice from Western Aircraft. All
>> > spruce for a long fuse 3 piece wing was $1578 + 94.42 shipping
>> > to Rochester, NY. In order to get doug fir or western cedar
>> > I would have had to mail order it unsorted. The only source
>> > of doug fir in Rochester was the local Home Depot. None of
>> > the lumber yards handled it nor did they have a source for
>> > 15' long pieces. Plus I didn't have to convince my wife
>> > to help rip the long pieces (note: hubby + wife + tablesaw
>> > ripping is a bad combination. I built a canoe that started
>> > as 2x6's so I know this).
>> >
>> > If you are lucky enough to live in an area of the country that
>> > has decent douglas fir then by all means get the manual and
>> > learn how to sort it. Buy yourself a planer and a table saw
>> > with the savings. For the rest of us - do the shopping and order
>> > the wood from whoever has it and can get it to you at a reasonable
>> > price.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > Building ribs in Retsof, NY
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
>>Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Cy Galley wrote:
"Why not check our the various woods and properties at...
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm"
It happens every time, a simple discussion about which woods to use
and someone says "Why not check..." and I'm lost for several hours
pouring over some outstandingly good and useful information that
was suggested. Happens every time.
What a gold mine, Thanks!
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Please remember to truncate you posts.... |
Some posts are getting pretty long. Please delete extra text as you reply
to threads...
Stevee
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Someone posted a fellows name and address not too lnog ago but somehow I
lost the info. They had asid he sells them at sun n fun ald such. Please
give me hos PH# and address. How much does he charge for them.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Someone posted a fellows name and address not too lnog ago but somehow I
> lost the info. They had asid he sells them at sun n fun ald such. Please
> give me hos PH# and address. How much does he charge for them.
>
> Steve
>
Charles Rubeck sells a dandy set of cedar ribs for the Piet. I believe his
price last summer was $325.
He is located at RR7 Box 520, Spencer, In 47460. tel # 1-812-829-2069
hope this helps
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doc Mosher" <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead's resident replacement for a groundhog |
A lot of Piet people have been to the idyllic setting of Brodhead Wisconsin
during the summer. Sometimes, the question comes up - Yeah, but what about
winter here? Well, we have ice fishing, snowmobiling, curling,
cross-country skiing, and serious booze drinking. A few of us just sort of
hibernate and work on our airplane hobby.
But yesterday, a sure harbinger of Spring occurred, according to the AP
story datelined "Brodhead."
"Buddy, the missing wallaby, is back home after surviving three wintry
nights half a world away from his species' native land, Australia. 'He's
thin, but he's completely healthy...eating very well...not a scratch on
him,' said his owner, veterinarian Amy Kunkel." Turns out, Buddy just
hopped out of an open door of a pen which is shared with other friendly
animals. His tracks in the snow showed hops averaging about five feet and
at times covering nine feet. After three days and nights in the near-zero
temperature, Buddy is back home.
Some of the guys at Brodhead are debating whether the sighting of a kangaroo
hopping from snowdrift to snowdrift in Brodhead on the first weekend in
February, means that there will be six more weeks of winter, or whether it
means Spring will soon be here.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead's resident replacement for a groundhog |
Sound like it has possibilites for a new type of rough-terian gear
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Doc Mosher <DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com>
Date: Monday, February 07, 2000 8:35 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead's resident replacement for a groundhog
>
>A lot of Piet people have been to the idyllic setting of Brodhead Wisconsin
>during the summer. Sometimes, the question comes up - Yeah, but what about
>winter here? Well, we have ice fishing, snowmobiling, curling,
>cross-country skiing, and serious booze drinking. A few of us just sort of
>hibernate and work on our airplane hobby.
>
>But yesterday, a sure harbinger of Spring occurred, according to the AP
>story datelined "Brodhead."
>
>"Buddy, the missing wallaby, is back home after surviving three wintry
>nights half a world away from his species' native land, Australia. 'He's
>thin, but he's completely healthy...eating very well...not a scratch on
>him,' said his owner, veterinarian Amy Kunkel." Turns out, Buddy just
>hopped out of an open door of a pen which is shared with other friendly
>animals. His tracks in the snow showed hops averaging about five feet and
>at times covering nine feet. After three days and nights in the near-zero
>temperature, Buddy is back home.
>
>Some of the guys at Brodhead are debating whether the sighting of a
kangaroo
>hopping from snowdrift to snowdrift in Brodhead on the first weekend in
>February, means that there will be six more weeks of winter, or whether it
>means Spring will soon be here.
>
>Doc Mosher
>Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead's resident replacement for a groundhog |
In a message dated 2/7/2000 7:40:40 PM Central Standard Time,
DOCSHOP(at)famvid.com writes:
<< the sighting of a kangaroo hopping from snowdrift to snowdrift in
Brodhead >>
If that roo half smart, that will be his last time in snow. USMC put me in
snow one time(Korea), that was last time ... don't have to put this Texan in
snow but one time LOL
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Brodhead resident |
In Australia, if the "roo" see's his shadow, it means 6 more weeks of
winter. If not, it means a month and a half until spring.
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a question about the spar for the GN or Piet. Have any of yall put
strips of wood between the ribs and made the top level with the rib
edges? If this was done when you put the leading edge material on you
could just wrap it all the way around the leading edge and make a really
strong D box arrangement out of your wing. Really strong.
Also I see the Piet spar contact points both upper and lower to the ribs
has no uprights next to the spar. Is this a refined design in the new
Piet plans.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
A lot of aircraft use filler blocks between the rib capstrips, but usually
where an aluminum leading edge is being used. You wouldn't want to wrap
the leading edge all the way around, though, because moisture would
collect. The extra strength is not necessary in a Piet anyway, although
some aircraft with cantilever wings (Cessna Airmaster, for example) do have
the leading edge wrapped for that very purpose. Finally, some folks
(most?) do add uprights to the rib on both spar faces. Seems like a good
idea to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
Has anybody else seen this site and list?
I added mine. Thought it was pretty neat.
http://www.chestnutfarms.com/Pietenpol/builders/builder_list.htm
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat. |
Mike,
I'm not to sure what you mean by "butt joint" on the hull, but if you
are referring to the plywood skin on the fuselage sides and bottom you
should scarff them at a 10:1 angle. We used Finnish birch plywood on our
project and this comes in 2'X4' pieces if I remember right. So we had to
splice in order to get pieces big enough for the 6' sides and belly. We
spliced them together first, before cutting to size and it was not
particularly difficult to do. We did make up a sanding scarff jointer as
described in one of Tony Bingelis' books and it went pretty fast. I
think we could have done a nicer job using a small plane and rasp,
however. But anyway, it's done and looks OK. It's also plenty strong.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve,
We haven't finished our wing yet, but we are not going to put any strips
in between the ribs along the spar. It would add extra weight that isn't
necessary. Also, whether you install a metal, wood, or cardboard leading
edge, it is not good to run the leading edge all the way to the spar on
the bottom. The open space allows for drainage of moisture and whatever
water will get up there. All the production airplanes I've recovered
have shown evidence of water accumulation in this area and the airplanes
I've redone with wooden leading edges have always had the wood rotted
away at the bottom edge. Always be sure to allow for water drainage the
best you can.
I'm not too sure what type leading edge we will use (not cardboard!),
but we are leaning toward metal at this time. There is a problem with
metal leading edges against wood ribs in that sometimes moisture can be
trapped between the leading edge and the wood rib causing the rib to rot.
If the leading edge can be bent or formed to shape it would be good to
glue the skin to the rib rather than tack as is usually done and if there
is a good fill of glue, this problem should be prevented.
We also are not adding uprights -- I've thought about this in the past
too --because they're not needed. We did make a one piece wing with 1"
spars and the ribs slid on stiffly requirering no further reinforment.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and some
trouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of trouble
in the past with getting water in the paint or even having water run
through my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, on
the line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in this
filter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned on
me that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hot
as it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air and
this was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hose
along the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun.
This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water to
condense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board to
again filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised how
much more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the one
mounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, set
it in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhe
compreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will really
help, as Ken Beanlands said.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
You can buy a small disposable water filter for between your gun and your
hose.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Progress Report!
>
>Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and some
>trouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of trouble
>in the past with getting water in the paint or even having water run
>through my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, on
>the line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in this
>filter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned on
>me that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hot
>as it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air and
>this was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hose
>along the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun.
>This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water to
>condense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board to
>again filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised how
>much more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the one
>mounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, set
>it in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhe
>compreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will really
>help, as Ken Beanlands said.
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
Actually, I'm building a Christavia, but I sometimes feel that I'm
missing out on something by not building a Piet ;-). However, I always
feel welcome on the Piet list. BTW, ther eis now a Christavia list and
it's really started to take-off in the last couple of monthes.
I also came to the same conclusion after using the same logic and now have
one filter about 20' downstream pf the regulator. One other relationship
that's important is that pressure is proportional to temperature. As the
pressure drops, so does the temp and eventually it hits the dew point. In
other words, there has to be enough distance between the filter and the
REGULATOR to allow the water time to condense out and get caught in the
trap. Water vapour will not get caught. Until I moved the first filter, I
got no water at all in the cup. Since I moved it on the weekend (sprayed
an entire coat since then) I collected about 6 ozs in the filter and
almost nothing is getting through. I have a second seperator at the gun
(cheap mini one with a clear plastic cup) and I've caught less than 1 oz
since I moved the large filter.
The water heater trick would probably work very well as long as the tank
was AFTER the regulator. Most of the water would condense out in the
second tank leaving practically dry air at the outlet.
Thanks for the help and suggestions on this one. I was certainly loosing
my patience on tis point. My wife claims that there was some mumbling by
me about setting a match to the whole works, but I claim ignorance on that
;-)
On another topic, does anyone have any cute ideas/suggestions on how to
lay out trim lines and registration marks? I plan on looking up what Tony
B. has to say tonight but I'm always interested in other ideas.
Thanks,
Ken.
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000 nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Ken Beanlands told of his painting experience on his Piet and some
> trouble he had getting water in the paint. I have had a lot of trouble
> in the past with getting water in the paint or even having water run
> through my air tools. I always had a filter on the air compressor, on
> the line as it exits the tank, and although water is collected in this
> filter bowl, I would still get water in the line. It finally dawned on
> me that the air leaving the air compressor tank is hot and is still hot
> as it enters the filter. Hot air can hold more water than cold air and
> this was the problem. I kept the filter on the tank and ran an air hose
> along the ground (cement floor) which is always cool if out of the sun.
> This run of hose will allow the air to cool and allow more water to
> condense. I then set another filter set up on a low vertical board to
> again filter the air and removve the water. You would be surprised how
> much more water is collected in this second filter as compared to the one
> mounted on the air compressor. If you only want to use one filter, set
> it in the middle of the air hose as I described -- the one on tyhe
> compreeor doesn't do all that much. A second filter, though, will really
> help, as Ken Beanlands said.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat. |
Thanks, John.. It's long finished.
The pieces were a bow "deck" (sorta) replacement. we spread the hull
slightly and droped the pieces in. Couldnt scarf because the minute the
pressure was released the pieces skipped over each other, and it had to be
built in place to get it under the trim.
worked good anyway, and its not ever likley to ever see water again, its
just a "teach the kids" type project.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help me finish this *&*&%$ boat.
>
>Mike,
> I'm not to sure what you mean by "butt joint" on the hull, but if
you
>are referring to the plywood skin on the fuselage sides and bottom you
>should scarff them at a 10:1 angle. We used Finnish birch plywood on our
>project and this comes in 2'X4' pieces if I remember right. So we had to
>splice in order to get pieces big enough for the 6' sides and belly. We
>spliced them together first, before cutting to size and it was not
>particularly difficult to do. We did make up a sanding scarff jointer as
>described in one of Tony Bingelis' books and it went pretty fast. I
>think we could have done a nicer job using a small plane and rasp,
>however. But anyway, it's done and looks OK. It's also plenty strong.
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000 nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
> I'm not too sure what type leading edge we will use (not cardboard!),
> but we are leaning toward metal at this time. There is a problem with
> metal leading edges against wood ribs in that sometimes moisture can be
> trapped between the leading edge and the wood rib causing the rib to rot.
> If the leading edge can be bent or formed to shape it would be good to
> glue the skin to the rib rather than tack as is usually done and if there
> is a good fill of glue, this problem should be prevented.
> We also are not adding uprights -- I've thought about this in the past
> too --because they're not needed. We did make a one piece wing with 1"
> spars and the ribs slid on stiffly requirering no further reinforment.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
As point of comparison, the Christavia does have the aluminum wrapped from
top of spar to the bottom. I plan on drilling some strategically placed
holes to help with drainage. The wing became incredibly stiff in torsion
after applying the aluminum. However, the aluminum is NOT tacked into the
ribs for the very reason you cited, it can cause rot. In addition, the
lengths of aluminum are kept to 4' or less with nothing between the joints
to hold them together. The reasoning is that it allows the LE to fles
without the possibility of cracking the aluminum. Mine overlap about
3/4" using three 4' lengths and one 3'. I adjusted the ribs so that there
would be enough overlap on the 4' sections as they are supposed to be 1'
on center.
Ken.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Steve
Yes, put filler strips in between the ribs on the front spar. I used 1/4" X
1/2" stock.
The ribs should have an "upright" from the top cap strip to the bottom cap
strip.
This is used to glue the rib to the spar. I don't thing there has been a
change
in the rib design. Look very close at your rib jig. You should have
"uprights"in front and in the back of both spars.
Hope this helps
Rich
N81ET GN-1
vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> I have a question about the spar for the GN or Piet. Have any of yall put
> strips of wood between the ribs and made the top level with the rib
> edges?
> Also I see the Piet spar contact points both upper and lower to the ribs
> has no uprights next to the spar. Is this a refined design in the new
> Piet plans.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
John,
Here's what I did to get rid of the water when I painted my Piet. First buy
a length of PVC pipe, Black and 4 inch dia. , the length should be just shy
of a 4 foot bar clamp. Buy two end plugs for the PVC pipe. Buy a yard of
polyester Matting, the type they sew into a coat for insulation. Buy a
couple of fittings for your air lines. Drill and tap these into place with a
little glue for a seal around the threads, but don't install yet . Next make
a couple of spacers that fit into the inside of the PVC (4") pipe. This
spacer is needed to collect the air before it exit and to prevent plugging
up in the event that any particles should break loose from inside the pipe.
The length should be about 3". Make a "U" cut-out to fit over the air line
fittings that will be protruding to the inside. Glue a wire mesh at the end
opposite the "U" just cut out. Now glue the spacer in place, making sure you
don't cover the hole that was previously drilled out for the air line
fittings. Now install one fitting in place. Cut out 4 I/4 inch circles of
the Polyester Matt. Stack them about 2" high and jamb the stack down through
the PVC pipe to rest onto the wire mesh. This stack should be tight against
the sides of the pipe. Next fill the pipe with moisture desiccant the kind
that shippers use to absorb moisture. Pack it down tight but not so tight
that you break the wire mesh at the other end. Now jamb another stack of 2 "
Polyester, glue the other spacer in place. Glue the cap on. Install the
other air line fitting. And let the glue cure and dry. Of course this is PVC
glue. Now after a few days place this water filter into the 4 foot clamp.
You'll need it to keep the caps from blowing off like a rocket and loosing
all the desiccant. This worked like a charm for me. The desiccant absorbed
all the water.
I had a water trap as well just aft of the tank outlet but found that by
itself the volume of air I used filled it with water too fast. Afterwards
you can throw the home fashioned water filter out or let it evaporate by lea
ving the end open over a few months. Or cut off one end dry the desiccant
out in a oven and then re-cap it. This may seem like a lot of work but it
really wasn't and it worked out well. This is an original idea, I've never
heard of anyone else ever doing anything like this.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead's resident replacement for a groundhog |
Hi Doc,
Only albino of a species can predict Spring. The ground hog (Wireton Willy)
has predicted another six weeks of winter, both in Wireton, Ontario and
Pennsylvania.
Cheers,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders List |
Just added my Information.
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
For some good information on making scarf joints go to:
www.clcboats.com
click on "build a boat"
then "how to"
then under technical articles, click on
"the truth about scarfs"
I made several perfect joints using this method. For boats use a 8:1 ratio
for aircraft is between 10:1 and 12:1.
This site also has a lot of good info on epoxies and finishing wood.
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
John,
Further to My PCV water filter. I forgot to mention that there was a long
hose in between the compressor and a water tank that I used. The first water
separator was actually at the top (outlet of the water tank) the another
shorter line to the PCV water filter. and finally a cheap plastic water
separator ( as Ken Beanland mentioned) at the gun. With dope I found the
best pressure to use was around 30 lbs. otherwise it atomizes too much and
you're just spraying into the air. I think I wasted about a gallon at higher
pressure and was getting no coverage. Bought another gallon and reduced the
pressure and finally got good coverage.
Regards,
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Taliwheel plans?? |
I need some tailwheel plans for my Piet yall!!
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
question on motor mts and cabane struts.
where the cabane struts and angled struts mount to the
motor mt and cabane brackets. is there just one tab
that sticks up to bolt to, or is there a tab on the
inside of the fuse and the outside to act as a clevis.
thanks
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
Was this with an HVLP gun, or the standard type? I've found that anything
less than 50 lbs provides less than desirable results using the HVLP
gun and 60 to 70 is closer to ideal. I guess that's the trade-off. HVLP's
use less material (1 quart per coat on the fuselage, tail and LG) but it
takes longer since you're always waiting for the compressor to catch
up. Overspray is almost non-exsistant though.
Ken
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Further to My PCV water filter. I forgot to mention that there was a long
> hose in between the compressor and a water tank that I used. The first water
> separator was actually at the top (outlet of the water tank) the another
> shorter line to the PCV water filter. and finally a cheap plastic water
> separator ( as Ken Beanland mentioned) at the gun. With dope I found the
> best pressure to use was around 30 lbs. otherwise it atomizes too much and
> you're just spraying into the air. I think I wasted about a gallon at higher
> pressure and was getting no coverage. Bought another gallon and reduced the
> pressure and finally got good coverage.
>
> Regards,
> Domenic
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
brackets on inside and outside all four corners, upper brackets with extra tabs
for mounting diagonal cabane braces.
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
del magsam wrote:
>
> question on motor mts and cabane struts.
> where the cabane struts and angled struts mount to the
> motor mt and cabane brackets. is there just one tab
> that sticks up to bolt to, or is there a tab on the
> inside of the fuse and the outside to act as a clevis.
> thanks
> del
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Del,
There is a tab on the inside and the outside bracket.
Rodger Childs
Piet in Progress
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve wrote:
"I need some tailwheel plans for my Piet yall!!"
One source would be:
G.S. Price
Yesterdays Wings
25 Taft Rd
Portsmouth, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce J. Park" <bjpark(at)dmci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taliwheel plans?? |
Try acquiring a 1933 FLYING MANUAL from the EAA. I'm sure it will cover
most other questions you may have in other times of your construction
project. B.J.P.
----- Original Message -----
From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Taliwheel plans??
>
> I need some tailwheel plans for my Piet yall!!
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | motor mt strut tab |
ok, let me fine tune my question.
is the strut tab on the motor mt just on the outside
of the fuselage, or do I leave it on the inside one
also. making it a total of 4 tabs sticking up for the
angled strut up to the wing.
on the plans it calls for 4 upper mts that have no
tab, but shows the one with the tab in the sketch
below it, but has no qty on it.
thanks del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Ken,
I have no idea which gun I have. It's one I purchased from CTC and it is
high pressure. The only thing is at 60-65 #'s there was too much loss to the
air and overspray. The surface was a little grainy or dry/powdery one might
say. When I reduced the pressure to 30-35 #'s the surface was smooth and
shiny like it should be with a lot better coverage.
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motor mt strut tab |
Del,
I think this is one of the confusing things about a design that has been
around for a long time. The folks that draw an improvment in the 60's or
70's think that everyone knows the plane up till then. It took me quite a
while to figure out what people were doing when building. What it is ( and
I still might be wrong) is that the original design was for the upper engine
mount brackets to only have a center tab to follow the firewall down. These
bkts were used when the cross wires were used on the right side of the
vertical struts to control fwd and aft movement of the wing center.
Stories said that flying in one of these , made you feel all caged in.
Then they got rid of the X wires by adding the angle " struts" that went
from the vert. struts down to the upper engine bkts. ( These had the extra
tabs on top). They just happen to put them all on the same print. My first
impression when I looked at the prints was that ,,",they are all on the
print, so I have to make them all".
What I'm doing is...putting brackets on the upper engine mount bkts that
have extra tabs. And bkts on the fwd wing attachment having extra tabs.
two pairs of tabs up at the front,,,and two pairs of tabs up at the wing
leading edge.) Then make an adjustable tube to run between the two with a
bolt at each connection point.
walt evans
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000 7:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mt strut tab
>
>ok, let me fine tune my question.
>is the strut tab on the motor mt just on the outside
>of the fuselage, or do I leave it on the inside one
>also. making it a total of 4 tabs sticking up for the
>angled strut up to the wing.
>on the plans it calls for 4 upper mts that have no
>tab, but shows the one with the tab in the sketch
>below it, but has no qty on it.
>thanks del
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | motor mt strut tab |
I only did one tab per side on the upper engine mounts. I have seen it done
with two per side as well. Two is stronger than one. I still retain the x
bracing although I suppose I could remove it.
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
While covering the plane, I've been giving a lot of thought to the next
big sub-project, mounting the engine. I have most of it figured out but
the exhaust. Some of the questions I have are:
Automotive pipes or Stainless steel?
Slip joints or ball joints?
Cross over or not?
Muffler or not?
One heat muff for both carb heat and cabin heat or one for each ?
Tony B has a lot of neat ideas in Firewall Forward and his new book on
engines and seems to favour automotive pipes for thier lower cost and easy
welding. One of the ideas I had was to pull the 4 pipes down under the
engine and dump them all into one tailpipe similar to a C-150's exhaust
(come to think of it, similar to the 180 and 185 as well). I should have
more than enough room under the engine to accomadate this setup.
Any thoughts? What have you guys flying with Cont's and Lyc's been
doing? Keep in mind that this is a Franklin so just using an available
exhaust system won't cut it.
Thanks,
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | metal for landing gear |
the plans show 1020 steel for the landing gear. would 4130 be better or
should
we stick with the original? what does everyone think?
side note,,, fuselage wood in on the way from western aircraft.
carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: metal for landing gear |
Except for price, there are very few examples where 4130 is not better
than 1020. It's stronger, harder, lighter and more corosion resistant than
1020.
There were a lot of places on the christavia where I had the choice of
1020 or 4130. I decided to build entirely out of 4130.
Ken
On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Carl Loar wrote:
>
> the plans show 1020 steel for the landing gear. would 4130 be better or
> should
> we stick with the original? what does everyone think?
> side note,,, fuselage wood in on the way from western aircraft.
> carl
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Steves gas tank. |
I want too know what kind of gas tamk Steve Eldrige used in his Piet. Is
it in the front of the fuse or is it in the wing center section.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
| Subject: | Re: metal for landing gear |
4130 is stronger, lighter and 100 times more expensive (ok, exagerating ;-)
I am using 1020 from the local machine shop. Its worked OK for 70 years.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Friday, February 11, 2000 5:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal for landing gear
>
>the plans show 1020 steel for the landing gear. would 4130 be better or
>should
>we stick with the original? what does everyone think?
>side note,,, fuselage wood in on the way from western aircraft.
>carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-Subject: Pietenpol-List: Exhaust
>Any thoughts? What have you guys flying with Cont's and Lyc's been
>doing? Keep in mind that this is a Franklin so just using an available
>exhaust system won't cut it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
I have an 0-200 with Champ "Y" shaped stacks. No problems.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motor mt strut tab |
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mt strut tab
>I only did one tab per side on the upper engine mounts. I have seen it
done
>with two per side as well. Two is stronger than one. I still retain the x
>bracing although I suppose I could remove it.
>
>Steve E.
I have two tabs with adjustable rod ends. That way I found it easier to true
up the center section. I also have the cross cables.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: motor mt strut tab |
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mt strut tab
>
>
>I only did one tab per side on the upper engine mounts. I have seen it
done
>with two per side as well. Two is stronger than one. I still retain the x
>bracing although I suppose I could remove it.
>
>Steve E.
I have two tabs with adjustable rod ends on the struts. That way it was
easier the true up the center section. I also have the cross wires.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Gear question. |
For you folks with split landing gear. (Like on the Grega)
How many bungees did you use on each leg? The plans (crappy as they are)
say 3 on each side. But I think it's two. It should be the same a s the Cub
I think.
Isnt that two???
Did ya'll use the bungee rings? or the Bungee chords with loops at each end?
A couple of weeks ago I asked the dumb question "what tool or device is used
to mill a slot" in tubing.... turned out it was a "MILL"!! Any way the
machine shop charged me 30 bucks to do it for me . Worked out good. Just
FYI.
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bradley & Lorraine James <dogladdy(at)mindspring.com> |
Ken
I used the Exhaust system made for the Champ. I think i ordered it from the
Alexander catalog. Works great!
Brad: A-65 Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Gear question. |
In a message dated 2/11/00 8:16:15 PM Central Standard Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< How many bungees did you use on each leg? The plans (crappy as they are)
say 3 on each side. But I think it's two. It should be the same a s the Cub
I think.
Isnt that two???
Did ya'll use the bungee rings? or the Bungee chords with loops at each end?
>>
I've been contemplating the same thing...I think I'd rather use the rings,
and double one ring up on each side of each shock strut. I think this would
look alot neater than having to clamp the ends together, like in the plans.
My problem is that I don't know what size loop to get. There are quite a few
choices in A/C Spruce. Has anyone used the loops, and what size works?
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
Sorry to use the list for this, but I've been trying to e-mail some prop info
to Ian, but it keeps returning. Hey Ian...what's up ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: motor mt strut tab |
I used one tab per side and didn't use the cross bracing; it's not
adjustable but it works fine.
Jim Malley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: metal for landing gear |
Carl,
Use the 4130 steel. Both are mild steels and easily weldable. The 4130
is more corrosion resistant and is stronger.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report! |
Domenico,
I really appreciate the information you sent on the water filter and
all. The air pressure you described seems a bit low, but that would
depend on the gun and tip you used. Every gun is a little different and
the pressure has to be set accordingly.
I bought a good gun a little over twenty years ago as I was doing a lot
of painting at the time (I've painted over a dozen metal airplanes and a
couple cars and trucks). Most guns require about 40 to 45 psi to work
properly using the suction cup. As I also owned a dope and fabric shop
before, I bought a 3 gallon pressure pot to spray dope with. This system
really speeds things up and is a great help. On a pot, I use 18 psi in
the pot to force the dope through the material hose to the gun and use 60
psi to spray. It really widens the pattern and does a good job. I have
also used the pot to spray enamel, but have to cut pressures to about 1
psi on the pot and 45 at the nozzle. But, here again, everything depends
on the gun and the tip with the tip being the most crucial.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Gear question. |
Bert,
If you use the bungee cord rings, you should use two as a cub or any
other such airplane does. The idea is thast if one breaks, hopefully the
other will hold. A restraining cable is a real good idea.
The plans call for the bungees (they used a wrapped strand) to be
exposed to the elements, but as you've seen, Piper and all the others
cover them with canvas or some other material. We're going to cover ours
as oil, fuel, grease, and whatever else there is will attack the bungee
and cause it to deteriorate. If properly cared for, bungees will last
several years -- at least five.
Bungee cord rings are sold in sets and their part number reflects the
weight they are rated at. A J-3, I think, uses 1080 bungees and this
would probably work for a Piet. But we made our struts per the plans and
I don't know if these 1080 bungees will fit now. We'll probably just buy
some bungee cord and go for it. I've never done this before, but the
1932 FGM tells how.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
A friend of mine is looking for a set of plans for the "Woody Pusher".
Yall nkow of someone that has a set????
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Woody Pusher |
Let me look in the "archives", Mom & Dad started a Woody Pusher back in the
late 60's -- the project ran out of steam after 5 years -- I "inherited" the
plans about 10-15 years ago.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
; ;
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Woody Pusher
>
> A friend of mine is looking for a set of plans for the "Woody Pusher".
> Yall nkow of someone that has a set????
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W GN-1 builder
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Woody Pusher |
Thanks Michael! Let me know how much you want for them,OK!
Steve
writes:
>
>
> Let me look in the "archives", Mom & Dad started a Woody Pusher back
> in the
> late 60's -- the project ran out of steam after 5 years -- I
> "inherited" the
> plans about 10-15 years ago.
> Mike C.
> Pretty Prairie, KS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vistin(at)juno.com>
> To: ;
> ;
> ; ;
> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 5:08 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Woody Pusher
>
>
> >
> > A friend of mine is looking for a set of plans for the "Woody
> Pusher".
> > Yall nkow of someone that has a set????
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Steve W GN-1 builder
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Woody Pusher |
jUST WHAT IS A WOODY PUSHER ? Are there picts available ?
I always like to see/hear about a new/old airplane.
>From: vistin(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
>fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Woody Pusher
>Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:08:26 -0600
>
>
>A friend of mine is looking for a set of plans for the "Woody Pusher".
>Yall nkow of someone that has a set????
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Gear question. |
-----Original Message-----
>
If properly cared for, bungees will last
>several years -- at least five.
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
Just a comment. I used continous strand bungee cord, uncovered. Eleven years
so far. They still look good. Just lucky, I guess.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Gear question. |
In a message dated 2/12/00 5:12:18 PM Central Standard Time, nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
<< If you use the bungee cord rings, you should use two as a cub or
any
other such airplane does. The idea is thast if one breaks, hopefully the
other will hold. A restraining cable is a real good idea. >>
I believe on the Cub, the tabs are much farther apart, than on the Piet,
therefore the same chords wouldn't work, unless ya loop a single chord,
doubled up, around each tab.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder and Elevator hinges |
Chris,
At Brodhead, last August, Vi was still offering the hinges. I'll look up his
address if you need it. I'm using his hinges, and they seem to be prety
nifty. Aside: I'm in Fairfield, just a short Piet flight away from you,
maybe we can get together to compare notes some time. I'm just beginning my
project, ribs are done, rudder is built, and have some bits and pieces. Drop
me a line at ADonJr(at)AOL.com if this sounds interesting to you.
Don Cooley, Fairfield,CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol WEB Site |
Does anybody know what has happened to the WEB site
"www.pietenpol.com" ??? Each time I try to access it, I get
a site from Microsoft dealing with NT.
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: Split landing gear/shock cord question.... |
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Date: Sunday, February 13, 2000 12:53 PM
Subject: Split landing gear/shock cord question....
Hello Group,
I used the same shock strut design the Piper J-3 uses. The dimension
between the spools is the same and the spools are 90 degrees to each
other when looking along the strut. The only departure from the Piper de-
sign is that the lower (outboard) part is a bit shorter than the J-3 part
and
a universal link (as found on a Piper PA-17 Vagabond shock strut) is used
at the attachment point to the axle.
If you use one 1280HD shock ring (for J-3) and one 9010HD ring ( Taylor-
craft BC12D) on each side with the above setup, you will be happy with the
results. I have used this arrangement with great success for nearly thirty
years and wouldn't change it in any way. Initially, I tried using two 9010
T'Craft rings per side (far too soft). Two 1280 rings per side (as used on a
J-3 or Vagabond) is too firm for my Pietenpol (1150 lbs. max. weight).
If you use the setup in the Pietenpol plans, you cannot use shock rings
because the spools lie in the same plane when looking down the length
of the strut. My son once owned a Pietenpol with this shock strut style
and we used about 10 feet of 1/2 inch shock cord per side, having loops
on each end. These loops are formed by "serving" the overlapping portion
with rib lacing (stitching) cord. See old aircraft mechanic books (or old
aircraft mechanics) for details. The number of wraps of shock cord around
the spools will give you the "ride" you desire, but it is better to have
shock
cord on the tight side rather than loose and soft; shock cord cannot absorb
energy effectively if it isn't sufficiently pre-stretched. Of couse, it will
be use-
less if stretched to, or nearly to, its limit. Experimentation to obtain the
de-
sired "give" is necessary.
It is always a good plan to protect shock cord or rings from oil, grease and
sunlight by using covers.
I am not submitting this information with the idea that this is the only way
to
set up your shock struts. Rather, it is intended to be for information only.
It
may be helpful in making your own shock absorbing system.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen (CF-AUN)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Plans |
I used these plans from Gary Price. Very well done and clear. Also used
the 4" wheel from Wick's.
Al Swanson
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Steve wrote:
>
>"I need some tailwheel plans for my Piet yall!!"
>
>One source would be:
>
> G.S. Price
> Yesterdays Wings
> 25 Taft Rd
> Portsmouth, NH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Split landing gear/shock cord question.... |
Thanks Graham! I started the original thread and this is helpful..
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Split landing gear/shock cord question....
<grhans@cable-lynx.net>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2000 12:53 PM
> Subject: Split landing gear/shock cord question....
>
>
> Hello Group,
>
> I used the same shock strut design the Piper J-3 uses. The dimension
> between the spools is the same and the spools are 90 degrees to each
> other when looking along the strut. The only departure from the Piper de-
> sign is that the lower (outboard) part is a bit shorter than the J-3 part
> and
> a universal link (as found on a Piper PA-17 Vagabond shock strut) is used
> at the attachment point to the axle.
>
> If you use one 1280HD shock ring (for J-3) and one 9010HD ring ( Taylor-
> craft BC12D) on each side with the above setup, you will be happy with the
> results. I have used this arrangement with great success for nearly thirty
> years and wouldn't change it in any way. Initially, I tried using two 9010
> T'Craft rings per side (far too soft). Two 1280 rings per side (as used on
a
> J-3 or Vagabond) is too firm for my Pietenpol (1150 lbs. max. weight).
>
> If you use the setup in the Pietenpol plans, you cannot use shock rings
> because the spools lie in the same plane when looking down the length
> of the strut. My son once owned a Pietenpol with this shock strut style
> and we used about 10 feet of 1/2 inch shock cord per side, having loops
> on each end. These loops are formed by "serving" the overlapping portion
> with rib lacing (stitching) cord. See old aircraft mechanic books (or old
> aircraft mechanics) for details. The number of wraps of shock cord around
> the spools will give you the "ride" you desire, but it is better to have
> shock
> cord on the tight side rather than loose and soft; shock cord cannot
absorb
> energy effectively if it isn't sufficiently pre-stretched. Of couse, it
will
> be use-
> less if stretched to, or nearly to, its limit. Experimentation to obtain
the
> de-
> sired "give" is necessary.
>
> It is always a good plan to protect shock cord or rings from oil, grease
and
> sunlight by using covers.
>
> I am not submitting this information with the idea that this is the only
way
> to
> set up your shock struts. Rather, it is intended to be for information
only.
> It
> may be helpful in making your own shock absorbing system.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham Hansen (CF-AUN)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder and Elevator hinges |
Chris,
Vi Kapler's address:
1033 Forest Hills Drive SW
Rochester, MN 55902
507 288-3322
I sent him a check for $35 and it will be the best $35 that you'll spend on
the whole project! I got mine from him about 3 months ago. You'll need to do
some filing to clean them up, but I've got them mounted on my Fin/Rudder so
far, and they seem fine and definitely save some work!
Good Luck!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Steves gas tank. |
My tank is .025 (I think) aluminum 3003 dead soft from a sheet metal ducting
shop. the seams are pop riveted and prosealed. Used a chevy filler neck
from the junk yard and an automotive cap from AutoZone. I modified the cap
by drilling through an attaching a six inch vent pointed forward. for a
float I designed a home made indicator that protrudes out the bottom. next
to a on/off valve. It is in the wing center section. So far so good. I'll
try my hand at welding my next one out of Al with a torch.
Steve e.
I think you will see som pics of my tank and indicator at:
aircamper.byu.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steves gas tank.
I want too know what kind of gas tamk Steve Eldrige used in his Piet. Is
it in the front of the fuse or is it in the wing center section.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Main Landing Gear. |
When I get to the stage of building my landing gear I dont want to use
the solid LG. I want to either use the bungee, the rubber disks (dont
know where to find them), or the spring setup yall talked about some time
ago. Now if anyone can send me some pictures on how to convert a solid LG
to shock I would appreciate it.
Tell me where in AS&S I can find the shock rubber donuts and more
information on the spring setup.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Main Landing Gear. |
Steve,
I believe I've seen rubber "donuts" listed in the Wag-Aero catalog. I know
they're used on Ercoupes, and might be made to fit your gear. Check 'em out.
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dean dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Pietenpol WEB Site |
Try www.pietenpol.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | 90 HP Franklin for sale |
Posting for a friend. Email for contact.
FOR SALE - 90 HP Franklin 186 SMOH, Logs, Includes a new Falcon
propeller, $3000.00 OBO. Removed from a Stinson 10 for engine upgrade.
Jed Bichsel
JKBichsel(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Internet Explorer and List Subscription Page Problem... |
Listers,
I have just identified a problem between any version of Microsoft's
Internet Explorer and the email List Subscription Form found at
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Please note that this problem
*ONLY* affects users of Internet Explorer! Netscape users are
*not* affected by the issue. Users of Internet Explorer should
use the Netscape browser for now until a work around can be
developed.
IMPORTANT:
If you have tried to subscribe *or* unsubscribe from any of the
following email lists using *Internet Explorer* since the announcement of
the 7 new Email Lists this past weekend, your request was not properly
received and you should resubmit the request using the Netscape
Browser, or wait until a solution for the problem with Internet Explorer
is completed. The Lists affected by the Internet Explorer issue are:
SmithMini-List
Tailwind-List
Please note that the Netscape Browser *IS NOT* affected by this problem
and all lists can be subscribed to and unsubscribed from without a
problem.
I will post a message to the Lists when I have come up with a solution
to this problem.
Sorry for the inconvenience,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Was checking out the Tin Man site last nite. If you haven't seen it...check
it out. All about aluminum welding and more.
http://www.tinmantech.com/
walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Main Landing Gear. |
I used Urethane pucks 6 x 1" each at a cost of $60.00 Canadian. Normally
used at newspaper printing houses. They can be made to order. I found for
the Piet. weight it should be Duro #080. Will last forever. Absorbs shock
and does not throw back the energy like rubber.
Dom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Tin Man site" |
I have met Kent White the "tin man" at an Oshkosh forum on metal working. I
thought I was a pretty good welder and tin basher until I watched the Tin
man work. I second the recommendation to visit his site. We could all learn
a lot from him.
John Mc
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 2:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Tin Man site"
>
>Was checking out the Tin Man site last nite. If you haven't seen it...check
>it out. All about aluminum welding and more.
>http://www.tinmantech.com/
>walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Internet Explorer and List Subscription Page Problem..." (Feb 15, 10:19am)
| Subject: | Re: Web Subscription Page Operation for Internet Explorer |
Restored...
Dear Listers,
I have rewritten the web page and CGI code for processing List
Subscription Requests to now be more compatible with command line
limitations of Microsoft's Internet Explorer and some very
old versions of Netscape. The page seems to be working fine
now on whatever browser I try. Please feel free to resume
your normal List Subscription habits.
The URL is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
>--------------
>
>
>Listers,
>
>I have just identified a problem between any version of Microsoft's
>Internet Explorer and the email List Subscription Form found at
>http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Please note that this problem
>*ONLY* affects users of Internet Explorer! Netscape users are
>*not* affected by the issue. Users of Internet Explorer should
>use the Netscape browser for now until a work around can be
>developed.
>
>IMPORTANT:
>
>If you have tried to subscribe *or* unsubscribe from any of the
>following email lists using *Internet Explorer* since the announcement of
>the 7 new Email Lists this past weekend, your request was not properly
>received and you should resubmit the request using the Netscape
>Browser, or wait until a solution for the problem with Internet Explorer
>is completed. The Lists affected by the Internet Explorer issue are:
>
> RVCanada-List
> RVEurope-List
> Sailplane-List
> Seaplane-List
> Skymaster-List
> SmithMini-List
> Sonerai-List
> Tailwind-List
> Ultralight-List
> Warbird-List
> Yak-List
> Zenith-List
>
>
>Please note that the Netscape Browser *IS NOT* affected by this problem
>and all lists can be subscribed to and unsubscribed from without a
>problem.
>
>I will post a message to the Lists when I have come up with a solution
>to this problem.
>
>Sorry for the inconvenience,
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics Email List Admin.
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Kent White travels around and puts on work shops. He will soon be at
McPherson College, Ks, just 20 miles from my home. Sounds like a great
deal, except it costs $275 per day.(3 days) I know what I won"t be
doing! Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT]] |
darell clark ,
Pietenpol Discussion ,
steve huffman , cliff kelling ,
earl ogilebee , sameen ,
molly truex , molly truex
--0-1957747793-950713610=:11933
Note: forwarded message attached.
--0-1957747793-950713610=:11933
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:57:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott McKitrick <scott_mckit(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT]]
darrell clark , Matt Coss ,
Steve Huffman , Greg Hymrod ,
Joel McCoy , DAVE ROGERS ,
Sammy
--0-1025202362-950655454=:27795
Note: forwarded message attached.
--0-1025202362-950655454=:27795
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:44:54 -0500
From: Lisa McKitrick <lmckitri(at)capital.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT]]
--------------7B157D042140
--
Lisa McKitrick
Associate Director of Admission Telephone: (614) 236-6101
Capital University Fax: (614) 236-6926
Columbus, OH 43209-2394 http://www.capital.edu
--------------7B157D042140
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:48:16 -0500
From: Vicki Foltz <vfoltz(at)capital.edu>
Bryan Steward , Carolyn Dean ,
Deanna Bond ,
Eileen Ashworth , Greg ,
James Homer , Julie Miller ,
Kim Ebbrecht ,
Lisa McKitrick , Michele Mulholand ,
Steve Crawford , Taryn
Subject: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT]
From: MDFOLTZ(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:27:34 EST
Subject: VIRUS ALERT
foltzer(at)juno.com (Clarence
R Foltz), denny623(at)hotmail.com,
Jesnit(at)yahoo.com, Jcsnit(at)yahoo.com, vfoltz(at)capital.edu,
PaJaHouse(at)aol.com, donfort(at)fcg.net, gvfoltz(at)netscape.net,
BCle951942(at)aol.com, Dawgsrbac5(at)aol.com, Knbud(at)aol.com,
SHARIE56(at)aol.com, jslitz(at)ibm.net, Mitchjw2(at)juno.com,
refoltz(at)worldnet.att.net, LRIESER(at)bexley.k12.oh.us
> If you receive an email titled "It Takes
> >> > > > > Guts to Say Jesus"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > DO NOT OPEN IT.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > It will erase everything on your hard drive.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > This information was announced yesterday
> >> > > > > morning from IBM;
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > AOL states that this is a very dangerous virus,
> >> > > > >much worse than "Melissa," and that there is NO remedy
> >> > > > >for it at this time.
> >> > > > > Some very sick individual has succeeded in
> >> > > > > using the reformat function from Norton Utilities
> >> > > > >causing it to completely erase all documents on the
> >> > > > >hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape
> >> > > > >Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer.
> >> > > > >It destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible computers.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > This is a new, very malicious virus and not
> >> > > > > many people know about it. Pass this warning along to
> >> > > > > EVERYONE in your address book and please share it
> >> > > > >with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat
> >> > > > >may be stopped.
> >> > > > > Please practice cautionary measures and tell anyone
> >> > > > >that may have access to your computer.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Forward this warning to everyone that might
> >> > > > > access the Internet.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Joyce L. Bober
> >> > > > > IBM Information Systems
> >> > > > > Pittsburgh Mailing Systems
> >> > > > > 412/922-8744
> >> > > > > 412/937-1730 Fax
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--------------7B157D042140--
--0-1025202362-950655454=:27795--
--0-1957747793-950713610=:11933--
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
When I start again on my plane I will be building the wings. Have any of
yall used aluminum flashing as the leading edge material? If so how did
yall attach it to the wood. (Lotsa head scraching here!!)
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge. |
>
>When I start again on my plane I will be building the wings. Have any of
>yall used aluminum flashing as the leading edge material? If so how did
>yall attach it to the wood. (Lotsa head scraching here!!)
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
Hi Steve:
Didn't use Al flashing. Used aircraft grade soft Al. Attached with small
screws.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) nb- see latest Experimenter, Pic of Mr Sam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris and Carrie Tracy" <ctracy(at)csus.edu> |
I know some people use 3/4" wing spars, do these have to be laminated or
can they be solid?
Chris Tracy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: www.pietenpol.com |
Are you looking for www.aircamper.org?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
>
>I know some people use 3/4" wing spars, do these have to be laminated or
>can they be solid?
>
>Chris Tracy
I used 3/4" solid spruce spars.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Is there a place/company that makes 1/16th plywood for the leading edge
in lengths enough to cover the whole leading edge of my wing?!
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge. |
Used aircraft grade soft al too. Wasn't much diff in price. Used small
brass nails to attach. Also made a simple tool to pull leading edge up
tight for nailing. You really don't have to attach to solidly because
fabric holds it.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge.
>
>
>>
>>When I start again on my plane I will be building the wings. Have any of
>>yall used aluminum flashing as the leading edge material? If so how did
>>yall attach it to the wood. (Lotsa head scraching here!!)
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>Steve W GN-1 builder
>>IHA #6
>
>
>Hi Steve:
>
>Didn't use Al flashing. Used aircraft grade soft Al. Attached with small
>screws.
>
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam ) nb- see latest Experimenter, Pic of Mr Sam
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
14' would be a big plywood press. I just scarfed three nine inch wide
strips for my leading edge. Don't glue them up till you are nearly ready
for them. They are easy to damage while trying to move them around in tight
quarters.
Steve e.
Tailwind abuilding.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
fly5k(at)listbot.com; Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge.
Is there a place/company that makes 1/16th plywood for the leading edge
in lengths enough to cover the whole leading edge of my wing?!
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge. |
Might find some one that sells rolls of 1/16" but it would take a very big
steam press to make longer sheets.
Cy Galley - Editor, B-C Contact!
(Click here to visit our Club site at http://www.bellanca-championclub.com)
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge.
>
>14' would be a big plywood press. I just scarfed three nine inch wide
>strips for my leading edge. Don't glue them up till you are nearly ready
>for them. They are easy to damage while trying to move them around in tight
>quarters.
>
>Steve e.
>Tailwind abuilding.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>vistin(at)juno.com
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:07 AM
>To: pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com;
>fly5k(at)listbot.com; Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge.
>
>
>Is there a place/company that makes 1/16th plywood for the leading edge
>in lengths enough to cover the whole leading edge of my wing?!
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge. |
Steve,
I ordered a sheet of african mohogany (1/16") from Harbor in Md. In my
catalog the price is $90.00 and they cut in 9" strips at no charge so it
could be shipped UPS.
Just made one joint at a rib, and worked great. Leftover I used for 2" at
root of wing , or gussets,etc.
They are in Md. at 1-800-345-1712. Call for free catalog. They got lots
of different stuff.
Even has a chart that shows all the types of wood that piets are built with
,and how they compare with
moisture, Spec. grav., static bending ,shear, impact, compression, hardness,
natural durability.
If anyone would like this scanned and posted, I can do that.
walt
-----Original Message-----
From: vistin(at)juno.com <vistin(at)juno.com>
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ;
fly5k(at)listbot.com ; Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:10 AM
Subject: Leading edge.
>Piet_Builder - http://public.surfree.com/arkiesair/index.htm
>
>Is there a place/company that makes 1/16th plywood for the leading edge
>in lengths enough to cover the whole leading edge of my wing?!
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, write to Piet_Builder-unsubscribe(at)listbot.com
>______________________________________________________________________
>Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
"piet"
Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
drawings)
after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
TIA
Mike
Always look on the bright side of life....
lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
Always look at the bright side of death...
(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
Hail Brian
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I am also interested in this question. Acouple of weeks ago I asked about
using plywood to laminate a one piece spar. Iknow in construction of homes
a laminated beam is far stronger than a one piece. I don't think there
would be any cost savings. My opinion- Two plys of 3/8 with grain set to
diffrent patterns would definetly be superior to one piece.
Dick Navratil
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Carrie Tracy <ctracy(at)csus.edu>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 7:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spars?
>
>
>I know some people use 3/4" wing spars, do these have to be laminated or
>can they be solid?
>
>
>Chris Tracy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COZYPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Piet for sale--19,900 |
found at
http://www.airplane4sale.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Phillips <jackphillips(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Chris,
They can be solid. I routed my rear spars down to 1/2" thick in the
middle, but left the front spars solid for extra strength. 3/4" is
gracious plenty material (Citabrias use 3/4" spars for a longer wing).
However, I would not recommend going down to 3/4" and then buying it at
the lumber yard, unless you are very good at inspecting wood. At
thinner thicknesses, defects play a proportionately larger role in
diminishing the wood's strength.
If I had it to do over again, I would make the spars taller and bevel
the edges to eliminate the need for wedges under the rib capstrips. The
height of the spar has a much greater impact on the spars strength
and stiffness than the thickness does (strength and stiffness are
proportional to the thickness, but are proportional to the cube of the
height, so doubling the thickness would double the strength and
stiffness, but doubling the height would yield 8 times the strength and
stiffness).
Study the plans and make your choices. One of the wonders of the
Pietenpol design is that it is so adaptable. Just be sure if you make
changes to the basic structure that you run your ideas past a qualified
engineer, or an experienced builder first. Sometimes little changes can
have disastrous results. I had one builder ask me if it would hurt to
put in a door for the front cockpit. He planned on cutting through the
upper longerons and wondered if he needed to reinforce the area!
Fortunately, I talked him out of the idea before he cut the longerons.
Good luck to you.
Jack Phillips
New Hill, NC
Wings finished, working on the centersection
Chris and Carrie Tracy wrote:
>
>
> I know some people use 3/4" wing spars, do these have to be laminated or
> can they be solid?
>
> Chris Tracy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Mike,
Please remove the offensive sig.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
drawings)
after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
TIA
Mike
Always look on the bright side of life....
lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
Always look at the bright side of death...
(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
Hail Brian
IHA 110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee Schiek" <concrete(at)qtm.net> |
BUMP..........
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
> Mike,
>
> Please remove the offensive sig.
>
> Stevee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
> To: piet aircamper; piet
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
> Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
> (kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>
> I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
> drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
> where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
> drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
> drawings)
>
> after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
>
> TIA
>
> Mike
> Always look on the bright side of life....
> lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
> Always look at the bright side of death...
> (Life of Brian... Monty Python)
>
> Hail Brian
> IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Meier <wmeier19(at)idt.net> |
Dick
There are a number of documents that cover this question in detail.
briefly, without getting into the engineering, a single piece plywood
spar with caps is stronger that a box section spar with half thick sides
and the same size caps. The physical properties of the wood used to
make the plywood are responsible for it's ultimate strength. The layup
of the plywood ( face grain with respect to the longitudinal axis of the
spar) also is a factor as is the number and spacing of vertical
braces/spacers used to keep the cap strips apart. Check out ANC-18
at your local library or purchase a reprint from EAA for $30 or so..
Very informative. Also check out the book Aircraft building
techniques: wood, also from the EAA.
The total cost for the spars from ASS or Wicks is about $500. (4 ea.
1"X4 3/4"X16') There may be others that are cheaper or you may be able
to find enough douglas fir at Menards/Payless/Home Depot to laminate a
solid spar with the correct grain pattern and tolerance for knots,
splits, shakes, etc to save $1.98...... your choice.....
If you wish to engineer your own wings, try it. Study other designer's
work to see how they solved problems like wing design. As a suggestion,
don't change more than one thing at a time and test a sample to
destruction for your own piece of mind. Also, you might pay up a large
life insurance policy and make your beneficiary a very happy person.
Ultimately, the Piet is a very tried and true platform as designed.
After you have been successful with changes, let everyone else know of
your experiences.
Cheers
Wayne
From: "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spars?
I am also interested in this question. Acouple of weeks ago I asked
about
using plywood to laminate a one piece spar. Iknow in construction of
homes
a laminated beam is far stronger than a one piece. I don't think there
would be any cost savings. My opinion- Two plys of 3/8 with grain set
to
diffrent patterns would definetly be superior to one piece.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Meier <wmeier19(at)idt.net> |
Steve,
Do a search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" Located in Minnesota, carries
all types of plywwod. Small company, airplane builder too.
Cheers
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
vistin(at)juno.com
fly5k(at)listbot.com; Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge.
Is there a place/company that makes 1/16th plywood for the leading edge
in lengths enough to cover the whole leading edge of my wing?!
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
I can vouch for Midwest Marine Plywood. I purchased a sheet of Okume plywood.
Good quality wood and reasonable prices.
The guy who runs the place is very knowledable about marine plywood.
Greg C.
>>> Wayne Meier 02/18 9:43 AM >>>
Steve,
Do a search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" Located in Minnesota, carries
all types of plywwod. Small company, airplane builder too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
Hi Mike:
While I was building my Piet in the 80's I bought a Piet built by Ed Sampson
that had plywood ribs ala Fly baby. I flew it qiute a bit, no problems.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
Can yall give me their phone number? I searched for their site but it
isnt working.
Steve
writes:
>
>
> I can vouch for Midwest Marine Plywood. I purchased a sheet of
> Okume plywood. Good quality wood and reasonable prices.
> The guy who runs the place is very knowledable about marine plywood.
>
> Greg C.
>
> >>> Wayne Meier 02/18 9:43 AM >>>
>
> Steve,
>
> Do a search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" Located in Minnesota,
> carries
> all types of plywwod. Small company, airplane builder too.
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Mike,
Please remove the offensive sig.
Stevee
amen!
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Piets leading edge. |
I have been studying my piet plans and the leading edge covers only to
the front center of the rib. Is this how yall are doing yers??
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | corvair manifold |
are there any pictures available of the Y manifold for the corvair engine?
I keep reading about it in the piet manual and the Wm Wynne conversion
manual but a pic would sure help.
side note: got a corvair engine yesterday and Jean Peters says that my fuse
wood is being shipped monday,,,, yahoo
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
OK Steve.. I'll see what I can do about not transmitting it on this list..
(I've heard Monty Python called a lot of things, but offensive is a new one
on me )
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>Mike,
>
>Please remove the offensive sig.
>
>Stevee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
>To: piet aircamper; piet
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>
>I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
>drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
>where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
>drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
>drawings)
>
>after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
>
>TIA
>
>Mike
>Always look on the bright side of life....
>lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
>Always look at the bright side of death...
>(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
>
>Hail Brian
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Hey Mike
How was it set up... 1/4" nose ribs, 1/8" mid and trailing with
capstrips??.. Or straight 1/4"/ no capstrip ?... I am using mil-spec birch
for all my ply so strenght either way is not a problem, but I would like to
get the construction as simple as possible.
The longer-term idea with this hybrid contraption of mine is to put cad
drawings on the net for everybody to use or reference (no, I wont be
charging for them...kinda like the gyrobee, but with a real flying machine)
looking for something new. Not to mention it makes my life easier ;-0
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
>>
>>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>
>
>Hi Mike:
>
>While I was building my Piet in the 80's I bought a Piet built by Ed
Sampson
>that had plywood ribs ala Fly baby. I flew it qiute a bit, no problems.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lund" <crafters(at)elgin.net> |
Actually, after a great deal of thought and soul searching..
No, I will not remove the signature.
This is your list Steve, and if ya want to throw me off it, that is your
absolute right.
I have, however had just about enough of this socially-engineered,
politically correct, non-offensive world. I dont answer to it.
I came here to learn about, talk about, and share ideas about Pietenpol
airplanes.
My signature file (which goes out to 15+ lists, 10+ companies and 200+
private parties) is actually irrelevent. It has nothing to do with the
discussions,the technical information, the humor or the good faith shared
by the list members. All brought about by these wooden antiquated flying
machines.
I happen to like Monty Python. I happen to think the quote, the song and the
movie seen to which it relates are VERY funny. With the quote, I hope to
share a bit of that humor, and a little bit of that fun.
I appreciate the whole world dont like my sense of humor, but I long ago
gave up trying to please the whole world.
I am sorry if this offends your sensabilities, but some of us grew up and
learned to live and let live. The rest became the easily offended
politically correct.
I have absolutley no intention of causing strife or ill will on any list.
These "clubs" are about friendly exchange of information, sometimes some
ribbing, and a few jokes.
just like the local hanger.
but I have no intention of apologizing for, or changing what I am. As a
mater of fact, that quote from a 30 year old movie is probably the most
truthfull, common-sense quote possible for North American Society today.
The alternative is to cry in misery, whine for welfare, and loose.
I choose to smile, laugh and share a bit of humor. With goodwill to all, and
with apologies to none.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>Mike,
>
>Please remove the offensive sig.
>
>Stevee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
>To: piet aircamper; piet
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>
>I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
>drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
>where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
>drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
>drawings)
>
>after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
>
>TIA
>
>Mike
>Always look on the bright side of life....
>lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
>Always look at the bright side of death...
>(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
>
>Hail Brian
>IHA 110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
>Hey Mike
>
>How was it set up... 1/4" nose ribs, 1/8" mid and trailing with
>capstrips??.. Or straight 1/4"/ no capstrip >Mike
>>>
>>>>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>>>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>>
>>
>>Hi Mike:
>>
>>While I was building my Piet in the 80's I bought a Piet built by Ed
>Sampson
>>that had plywood ribs ala Fly baby. I flew it qiute a bit, no problems.
>>
>>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
Hey Mike:
I can't be too much help on the rib construction details as I didn't build
that airplane. In fact, I didn't know that the ribs were ply until I talked
to Ed Sampson at Brodhead. You can proably contact him thru Grant MacLaren.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
Actually, after a great deal of thought and soul searching..
No, I will not remove the signature.
This is your list Steve, and if ya want to throw me off it, that is your
absolute right.
I have, however had just about enough of this socially-engineered,
politically correct, non-offensive world. I dont answer to it.
I came here to learn about, talk about, and share ideas about Pietenpol
airplanes.
My signature file (which goes out to 15+ lists, 10+ companies and 200+
private parties) is actually irrelevent. It has nothing to do with the
discussions,the technical information, the humor or the good faith shared
by the list members. All brought about by these wooden antiquated flying
machines.
I happen to like Monty Python. I happen to think the quote, the song and the
movie seen to which it relates are VERY funny. With the quote, I hope to
share a bit of that humor, and a little bit of that fun.
I appreciate the whole world dont like my sense of humor, but I long ago
gave up trying to please the whole world.
I am sorry if this offends your sensabilities, but some of us grew up and
learned to live and let live. The rest became the easily offended
politically correct.
I have absolutley no intention of causing strife or ill will on any list.
These "clubs" are about friendly exchange of information, sometimes some
ribbing, and a few jokes.
just like the local hanger.
but I have no intention of apologizing for, or changing what I am. As a
mater of fact, that quote from a 30 year old movie is probably the most
truthfull, common-sense quote possible for North American Society today.
The alternative is to cry in misery, whine for welfare, and loose.
I choose to smile, laugh and share a bit of humor. With goodwill to all, and
with apologies to none.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>Mike,
>
>Please remove the offensive sig.
>
>Stevee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
>To: piet aircamper; piet
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
>Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
>(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
>
>I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
>drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me know
>where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
>drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
>drawings)
>
>after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
>
>TIA
>
>Mike
>Always look on the bright side of life....
>lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
>Always look at the bright side of death...
>(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
>
>Hail Brian
>IHA 110
>
>
ADA BOY MIKE
Doug Hunt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
3/4 spruce spars also.
Doug Hunt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Mike & everyone else!
Sorry guys, but I'm only going to talk about ribs, etc! (no social
commentary!!;-)
My set of Flybaby plans show 1/4" ply for the nose ribs (at one time you
could get A-A ply) & 1/8 for the rest of the rib. The top & bottom caps
were 1/4" x 1/2" with a 1/8" groove for the 1/8" web. ( the grain of the
1/8" ply was run vertically ) Where the caps strip attaches to the nose
rib, the nose rib is notched so the cap strip blends into the curve of the
airfoil. The Flybaby ribs that I have in the barn use 1/8" mahogany ply for
the webs. Holes are drilled thru the web for the drag wires -- wood 1/2" x
1/2" triangle blocks are ued to attach the ribs to the spars -- the spars
are angled on the top & bottom to match the rib.
With the ply nose ribs, there is a 3/8" x 5/8" L.E. strip (vs the Piet's
stair railing ;-) -- this works with the hardware store .016 Alum. 1/2 hard
flashing ( Pete Bowers does call out that in the plans! ;-) make up the L.E.
1/4" x 3/8" wood strips go between the ribs on the top & bottom of the front
spar -- the Alum flashing is attached to this with #20 cement coated nails
(after sealing the all the wood work!)
Since the FlyBaby is in the same class as the Piet (weigth & size), I use
the plans for alot of reference.
Mike C.
PP, KS
At the risk of
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Lund <crafters(at)elgin.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
> Hey Mike
>
> How was it set up... 1/4" nose ribs, 1/8" mid and trailing with
> capstrips??.. Or straight 1/4"/ no capstrip ?... I am using mil-spec birch
> for all my ply so strenght either way is not a problem, but I would like
to
> get the construction as simple as possible.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
I bought a in progress project from a fellow that passed away a month
ago. He did a great job but I found he had installed a floor board. He
did the 1/4" under the front of the fuse and installed this floor board
too. Should I leave it in? Or try to remove some/all of it.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Meier <wmeier19(at)idt.net> |
| Subject: | "Midwest Marine Plywood" |
A search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" usually turns up the phone number
and address, sorry....
They are:
Midwest Marine Plywood
2259 James St.
Eagan, MN 55122
The phone number is 651-882-9704
No web site. only plywood......8-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
In reply to your "soul searching and not removing your signature" Why should
I, as a Christian, have to read that kind of linguage when I really want to
read about aircampers? If that kind of language is commonly used on this
site then I could not have my grandson read it. I am not for censorship but
why should I have to preread anything that is on an aircamper site before my
children or grandshildren? With freedom comes certain responsibilities to
ourselves and others.
Steve D.
Just thinking about building a Piet (I have the Model A engine as a start.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug <ve6zh(at)oanet.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: humour
>
>
> Actually, after a great deal of thought and soul searching..
>
> No, I will not remove the signature.
>
> This is your list Steve, and if ya want to throw me off it, that is your
> absolute right.
>
> I have, however had just about enough of this socially-engineered,
> politically correct, non-offensive world. I dont answer to it.
>
> I came here to learn about, talk about, and share ideas about Pietenpol
> airplanes.
>
> My signature file (which goes out to 15+ lists, 10+ companies and 200+
> private parties) is actually irrelevent. It has nothing to do with the
> discussions,the technical information, the humor or the good faith shared
> by the list members. All brought about by these wooden antiquated flying
> machines.
>
> I happen to like Monty Python. I happen to think the quote, the song and
the
> movie seen to which it relates are VERY funny. With the quote, I hope to
> share a bit of that humor, and a little bit of that fun.
>
> I appreciate the whole world dont like my sense of humor, but I long ago
> gave up trying to please the whole world.
>
> I am sorry if this offends your sensabilities, but some of us grew up and
> learned to live and let live. The rest became the easily offended
> politically correct.
>
> I have absolutley no intention of causing strife or ill will on any list.
> These "clubs" are about friendly exchange of information, sometimes some
> ribbing, and a few jokes.
>
> just like the local hanger.
>
> but I have no intention of apologizing for, or changing what I am. As a
> mater of fact, that quote from a 30 year old movie is probably the most
> truthfull, common-sense quote possible for North American Society today.
>
> The alternative is to cry in misery, whine for welfare, and loose.
>
> I choose to smile, laugh and share a bit of humor. With goodwill to all,
and
> with apologies to none.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
> >
> >Mike,
> >
> >Please remove the offensive sig.
> >
> >Stevee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
> >Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
> >To: piet aircamper; piet
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
> >
> >
> >
> >Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
> >(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
> >
> >I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see if
> >drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me
know
> >where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
> >drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
> >drawings)
> >
> >after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Mike
> >Always look on the bright side of life....
> >lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
> >Always look at the bright side of death...
> >(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
> >
> >Hail Brian
> >IHA 110
> >
> >
>
>
> ADA BOY MIKE
> Doug Hunt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
Here we go again--why can't grown ups just let life be? So what if a
signature offends some one, so your talk of christianity might also offend.
This is not a chat room. It is not set up to do anything other than answer
questions and share information about Piets and similar planes and flying in
general. I am not willing to dictate to someone else how they sign a
or if you are really offended, unsubscribe.
Pat Cooley
Monitoring because my Dad is building a Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dortch <smallfish(at)enid.com>
Date: Saturday, February 19, 2000 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: humour
>
>In reply to your "soul searching and not removing your signature" Why
should
>I, as a Christian, have to read that kind of linguage when I really want to
>read about aircampers? If that kind of language is commonly used on this
>site then I could not have my grandson read it. I am not for censorship but
>why should I have to preread anything that is on an aircamper site before
my
>children or grandshildren? With freedom comes certain responsibilities to
>ourselves and others.
>
>Steve D.
>Just thinking about building a Piet (I have the Model A engine as a start.)
>
>----- Original
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Swagler <dswagler(at)yahoo.com> |
> No, I will not remove the signature.
>
What if you changed the offensive word to "sh*t"? Or
is compromise too "politically correct"?
=====
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization
is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." -Dan Quayle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Adolfo Pando" <mercosur.antf(at)virgin.net> |
Pat,
I couldn't agree more. As if it was a matter of life an death... Come on
guys, it's just a harmful signature! So what if it says s**t? Worse (no;
that would mean my opposing the famous signature, whereas I frankly don't
give a toss: I'd better say bad) things happen everyday and nobody snaps.
Let's get real...
----- Original Message -----
From: <Patcoolnet(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: humour
>
> Here we go again--why can't grown ups just let life be? So what if a
> signature offends some one, so your talk of christianity might also
offend.
> This is not a chat room. It is not set up to do anything other than
answer
> questions and share information about Piets and similar planes and flying
in
> general. I am not willing to dictate to someone else how they sign a
> or if you are really offended, unsubscribe.
>
> Pat Cooley
> Monitoring because my Dad is building a Piet
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
I just visited with a flying friend of mine and he surprised me by giving
"GIVING" me a set of piper landing gear, a set of 600x6 tires n tubes and
a whole bunch of building advice. Yall gotta have a friend like him. Now
I need to get a pare of wheels/with brakes, with one and a quarter inch
axel bearings to fit my tires. Yall got any ideas?? Or maybe soem of yall
have some to sell cheap
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net> |
Doug;
Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance. Sending out a quote to
numerous lists, numerous times does not make it anymore acceptable or less
offensive. Your explanation is one of the weakest excuses I have heard. First
off, Steve asked politely for you to remove the comment. He did not say what was
offensive. Secondly, Steve relinquished the list some time back. Personally,
I
admire Steve for speaking up. Steve is a man of honor, integrity, and class.
In
the years I have been reading the posts from this list, he has been a gentleman.
He has done a lot for a lot of people on here. His was but a simple request. You,
like so many self-centered, me-first, crybabies attempted to justify your childish
actions, instead of being a man and apologizing. It is for you and your type that
I feel very sorry for. For Steve, and his type, we need more of "those" around.
He would be the one I would call "friend".
Regards
Bill Talbert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "camera-man" <seawolf80(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lack of Class |
Hello
I normally check this list several times a day, very helpful information.
When I enlisted in US military as young man, I took and oath to defend the
Constitution of the United States. Part of the Constitution is the first Ten
Amendments including Freedom of Speech. I have never found any mention in
the Constitution that protects against offending. I took that oath
seriously, did two tours in Vietnam, flew 598 mission my first tour. If this
is considered "ignorance, self-centered, me-first, crybabies childish" then
SHIT I Unsubscribe .
Mike Madrid
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Talbert <wtalbert(at)flash.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lack of Class
>
>
> Doug;
>
> Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance. Sending out a quote
to
> numerous lists, numerous times does not make it anymore acceptable or less
> offensive. Your explanation is one of the weakest excuses I have heard.
First
> off, Steve asked politely for you to remove the comment. He did not say
what was
> offensive. Secondly, Steve relinquished the list some time back.
Personally, I
> admire Steve for speaking up. Steve is a man of honor, integrity, and
class. In
> the years I have been reading the posts from this list, he has been a
gentleman.
> He has done a lot for a lot of people on here. His was but a simple
request. You,
> like so many self-centered, me-first, crybabies attempted to justify your
childish
> actions, instead of being a man and apologizing. It is for you and your
type that
> I feel very sorry for. For Steve, and his type, we need more of "those"
around.
> He would be the one I would call "friend".
>
> Regards
> Bill Talbert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
How can I find the conversion for the metal fittings. The plans have the
thickness in gage but I need inches. I check out AS&S catalog but can't
find it. Or what thickness do the rest of you use?
Thanks
Chris Tracy
(Sacramento)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Chris:
go to
www.flinthills.com/~ramsdale/engzone/refer.htm
Gary
frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Chris
you can also get to the engzone site at
www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lack of Class |
Hi Mike,
Free speech is a valid and dependable virtue of our society. In my humble
opinion, this is rather like coming into a nice family restaurant and then
having to sit next to a low-class swearing loudmouth idiot who proceeds to ruin
an otherwise pleasant event for the rest of the group with language and
behaviour that is protected by free speech and is still disgusting.
It would be much preferable if you could in fact BE SO KIND as to take this
free speech to your favourite dirt floor bar and communicate with those who find
you charming and delightful.
Medic, 9th Infantry: Bear Cat & Dong Tam: 1968-1969.
It also says a great deal about the origional contributor, who acknowledges
in his item, that viewed from the bright side, his life is still a piece of
sh*t.
Another valid and dependable free speech viewpoint.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
Sheet-Metal Gages in Approximate Decimals of an Inch.
Gage Thickness Gage Thickness
3 0.2391 11 0.1196
4 0.2242 12 0.1046
5 0.2092 13 0.0897
6 0.1943 14 0.0747
7 0.1793 15 0.0673
8 0.1644 16 0.0598
9 0.1495 17 0.0538
10 0.1345 18 0.0478
11 0.1196 19 0.0418
12 0.1046 20 0.0359
But then four decimal places IS a bit much.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kyle ray" <rrobert(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | must unsubscribe for now |
Please unsubscribe me from this excellent group, I was in the
middle of career change and move and decided to do another
carreer change and move and have to many irons in the fire!
Or if there is someone who can tell me the place to go to unsubscribe
I would appreciate it!
I am moving from Hardy Ar. to west of E-town Ky.
Russell Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lack of Class |
Doug;
Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance. Sending out a quote to
numerous lists, numerous times does not make it anymore acceptable or less
offensive. Your explanation is one of the weakest excuses I have heard.
First
off, Steve asked politely for you to remove the comment. He did not say
what was
offensive. Secondly, Steve relinquished the list some time back.
Personally, I
admire Steve for speaking up. Steve is a man of honor, integrity, and
class. In
the years I have been reading the posts from this list, he has been a
gentleman.
He has done a lot for a lot of people on here. His was but a simple
request. You,
like so many self-centered, me-first, crybabies attempted to justify your
childish
actions, instead of being a man and apologizing. It is for you and your
type that
I feel very sorry for. For Steve, and his type, we need more of "those"
around.
He would be the one I would call "friend".
Regards
Bill Talbert
BILL,you may want to check who sent the "signature",i was replying to
Mike's post,not composing it.
DOUG HUNT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lack of Class |
Warren,
You hit it right on the head.
walt
5 nuclear Polaris patrols, north Atlantic, '67-'71
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lack of Class
>
>Hi Mike,
> Free speech is a valid and dependable virtue of our society. In my
humble
>opinion, this is rather like coming into a nice family restaurant and then
>having to sit next to a low-class swearing loudmouth idiot who proceeds to
ruin
>an otherwise pleasant event for the rest of the group with language and
>behaviour that is protected by free speech and is still disgusting.
> It would be much preferable if you could in fact BE SO KIND as to take
this
>free speech to your favourite dirt floor bar and communicate with those who
find
>you charming and delightful.
> Medic, 9th Infantry: Bear Cat & Dong Tam: 1968-1969.
> It also says a great deal about the origional contributor, who
acknowledges
>in his item, that viewed from the bright side, his life is still a piece of
>sh*t.
> Another valid and dependable free speech viewpoint.
>Cheers,
>Warren.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lack of Class |
Alright Already!
I tried to stay out of this but I just can't.
You know, Mikes original choice of signature may be a bit crass in some
peoples eyes. It may be rude in others. I agree with the analogy of
sitting in a restaurant and having someone spout profanities with your
family sitting there. But ya know, this aint Shoneys. We all are grown
ups. I'm sure there are some here that wouldn't dare utter a " Aw shoot"
or "Dang". Thats good.
Maybe, when in doubt, we all should try to be more cognizant of the things
that may make some people uncomfortable, I guess thats just common COURTESY
that keeps crass people like me from Burping at the table (or worse).
Lets just drop it!!!
For what it's worth, Monty Python IS funny as HE..... !
HECK!
There, are ya'll satisfied.
Later, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lack of Class
>
> Warren,
> You hit it right on the head.
> walt
> 5 nuclear Polaris patrols, north Atlantic, '67-'71
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lack of Class
>
>
> >
> >Hi Mike,
> > Free speech is a valid and dependable virtue of our society. In my
> humble
> >opinion, this is rather like coming into a nice family restaurant and
then
> >having to sit next to a low-class swearing loudmouth idiot who proceeds
to
> ruin
> >an otherwise pleasant event for the rest of the group with language and
> >behaviour that is protected by free speech and is still disgusting.
> > It would be much preferable if you could in fact BE SO KIND as to
take
> this
> >free speech to your favourite dirt floor bar and communicate with those
who
> find
> >you charming and delightful.
> > Medic, 9th Infantry: Bear Cat & Dong Tam: 1968-1969.
> > It also says a great deal about the origional contributor, who
> acknowledges
> >in his item, that viewed from the bright side, his life is still a piece
of
> >sh*t.
> > Another valid and dependable free speech viewpoint.
> >Cheers,
> >Warren.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Rib head scraching! |
I have looked and studied the plans (in flying & glider) but cant make
heads or tails of how to attach the ribs to the spars. Yaller smarter
than I am sooo help me with this!
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Douglas fir spars: |
I have found some Doug fir in 16 foot lengths and want to know if it can
be used for piet spars.
Steve
Steve W GN-1 builder
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Sheets" <doug_sheets(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry Mike, I agree with Steve on this one. Free speech is your right as it
is mine. I had the great pleasure of meeting SteveE at Brodhead and can tell
you there is not a nicer person I have ever met. I respect his rights also.
My only signature is my real name; not any statement, no allusions to my
outlook on life, no movies I saw.
I know SteveE and I respect his wishes. He has done so much for the Piet
movement that I am proud to know him. His web site has provided me with
answers to questions any time of day. The pictures are worth a thousand
words, and sometimes hundreds of dollars (saved scrap parts).
It's a Piet list - after all.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug" <ve6zh(at)oanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Douglas fir spars: |
>Pietenpol-List message posted by: vistin(at)juno.com
>I have found some Doug fir in 16 foot lengths and want to know if it can
>be used for piet spars.
>Steve
>>>Steve W GN-1 builder
>>>IHA #6
Sure you can,as long as the wood meets or exceeds the specs on grain
slope,grain runout,anualar rings per inch etc,etc.
Doug Hunt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
Tubing follows the Birmingham or Stubs wire gauge as follows:
ga. decimal
11 .120
12 .109
13 .095
14 .083
16 .065
18 .049
20 .035
22 .028
24 .022
Sheet steel follows a different table and to make it even more confusing the available
thicknesses from suppliers like Dillsburg and AS&S don't match ANY of
the conversion tables. I used the following for sheet steel:
ga. decimal
11 .125
12 .100
13 .090
14 .080
16 .063
18 .050
20 .040
22 .032
24 .025
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> Chris A Tracy 02/20 5:15 PM >>>
How can I find the conversion for the metal fittings. The plans have the
thickness in gage but I need inches. I check out AS&S catalog but can't
find it. Or what thickness do the rest of you use?
Thanks
Chris Tracy
(Sacramento)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib head scraching! |
Steve,
The rib pattern in the F&G manual does not include
uprights at the spars. The modified plans that Don
ships now show an upright. Beware of the rib pattern
though. Mine was off by 1/8" on rib spacing. I just
lofted them from the table of offsets.
Your sig says that you are building a GN-1. I thought
that design used Cub wings so I would be real careful
with using the Piet ribs.
Dave
>
>I have looked and studied the plans (in flying & glider) but cant make
>heads or tails of how to attach the ribs to the spars. Yaller smarter
>than I am sooo help me with this!
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Douglas fir spars: |
Get the specs., for fir before you buy it. Off the top of my head ., the
wood should be within 45 degrees of 1/4 sawn, no less than 8 annular rings
per inch, and a run out grain of no less than 1:16.
Also it shouldn't have swirrels, or knots.
AC-43-13
You can look this stuff up in the book, aircraft building techniques in wood
from the EAA.
you can go on to the FAA web site, e-mail them, and a few days later they
will write back with an answer to your question.
Or at least the FAA used to...
Bob
>From: vistin(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietbuilderoldplane(at)listbot.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douglas fir spars:
>Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:48:48 -0600
>
>
>I have found some Doug fir in 16 foot lengths and want to know if it can
>be used for piet spars.
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Swanson <swans071(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Sheet gages are in the ASS catalog on page 68. Better, the Wick's catalog
has both tubing and sheet gages on the last page. I look up the decimal
equivalent of the gage number, and then go one higher if there is no exact
standard match.
good luck
Al Swanson
>
>How can I find the conversion for the metal fittings. The plans have the
>thickness in gage but I need inches. I check out AS&S catalog but can't
>find it. Or what thickness do the rest of you use?
>
>
>Thanks
>Chris Tracy
>(Sacramento)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib head scraching! |
>
>I have looked and studied the plans (in flying & glider) but cant make
>heads or tails of how to attach the ribs to the spars. Yaller smarter
>than I am sooo help me with this!
>
>Steve
>
>Steve W GN-1 builder
>IHA #6
>
>
Hey Steve:
I am confused ( happens a lot these days ). Are you building a GN-1 from
Piet prints?
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rib head scraching! |
No Mike! I bought a piet project from a guys estate and I am going to
continue with my plans to build a GN at a later date.
Steve
writes:
>
>
>
> >
> >I have looked and studied the plans (in flying & glider) but cant
> make
> >heads or tails of how to attach the ribs to the spars. Yaller
> smarter
> >than I am sooo help me with this!
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >Steve W GN-1 builder
> >IHA #6
> >
> >
>
> Hey Steve:
>
> I am confused ( happens a lot these days ). Are you building a GN-1
> from
> Piet prints?
>
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W Pietenpol/GN-1 builder<(next project)
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SLTlibro(at)aol.com |
Steve, Out of curiosity ,did your GN-1 come from an estate from Cape Cod ,MA?
Recently I answered an ad for a GN-1 that was about 2 years old but the
project was sold a while ago. Back to square one for now, but I just picked
up a corvair engine to eventually power a Piet. The cart before the horse I
guess.
Richard Savignano,Seekonk, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
Richard:
Nope! I bought it right here in Mississippi. But its a Pietenpol instead
of a GN-1. I will start building my GN-1 later next year.
Steve
>
> Steve, Out of curiosity ,did your GN-1 come from an estate from Cape
> Cod ,MA?
> Recently I answered an ad for a GN-1 that was about 2 years old but
> the
> project was sold a while ago. Back to square one for now, but I just
> picked
> up a corvair engine to eventually power a Piet. The cart before the
> horse I
> guess.
> Richard Savignano,Seekonk, MA
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W Pietenpol/GN-1 builder<(next project)
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
A question about the plywood for the gussets and fuseage,
does it have to be marine grade mohagany or can we use
something easier to aquire? I was curious as to what
everyone else used. Thanks
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Carl,
Take a look at
http://www.aitwood.com
click on catalogue and then click on
ultra-thin plywood, including "details"
european birch plywood, including "details"
finish birch plywood, including "details"
they also sell flexible hoop pine plywood which is great for the leading
edges.
Quite a bit of "educational" information is included.
Cheers,
Warren
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> A question about the plywood for the gussets and fuseage,
> does it have to be marine grade mohagany or can we use
> something easier to aquire? I was curious as to what
> everyone else used. Thanks
> Carl
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Carl,
For what it's worth, I've been using Birch for all the gussetts, and will
use Mahogany for all the places where the plywood will show! Mahogany sure
is pretty stuff.
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | The Human Touch, was: Ply Ribs |
Thanks for considering it Mike.
I have learned that there are other words that would do the job of a foul
one much better if we took the time to think about it. Usually it lends
more meaning to your point of view as a bonus. As has been pointed out, I
turned the list over to another and don't have the ability to terminate your
subscription. I just hoped to keep things clean and free from so much junk
that pollutes the other groups I have long since abandoned. In my
observation, swearing denigrates the user more than the recipients, but like
second hand smoke, its effects can't be ignored. I believe that we are all
connected to each other, even more so in the age of instant communication,
and can and will have an effect on each other, for better or for worse. You
are right, you can do what you want, but you cannot control the
consequences, they are fixed.
As for me, I will avoid exposure to the erosive effects of swearing, and
negativism. (If I politely ask someone not to smoke in an elevator, they
usually honor the request, if not I take the stairs.)
I believe we are on this earth to learn how to be happy, then help others
figure it out too. Flying, building and talking about Pietenpols is one of
those things that brings me a great measure of joy. I hope your
contributions strengthen the fabric of human existence while we are here to
enjoy it, and leave a worthwhile legacy thereafter.
Steve E.
By the way, like everything else in aviation, ply vs truss ribs is a
compromise. I chose to spend the time to build the truss, and fly a few lbs
lighter ever after.
SE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
OK Steve.. I'll see what I can do about not transmitting it on this list..
(I've heard Monty Python called a lot of things, but offensive is a new one
on me )
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
Mike,
I find it offensive, too.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, Az
>
> OK Steve.. I'll see what I can do about not transmitting it on this
list..
>
> (I've heard Monty Python called a lot of things, but offensive is a new
one
> on me )
>
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
> To: 'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'
> Date: Friday, February 18, 2000 10:14 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
>
>
> >
> >Mike,
> >
> >Please remove the offensive sig.
> >
> >Stevee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Lund
> >Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 7:45 PM
> >To: piet aircamper; piet
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Ribs
> >
> >
> >
> >Has anybody made piet ribs of routered ply instead of the stick-built???
> >(kind like the Flybaby or VP-1)
> >
> >I'd like to do it, but rather than re-invent the wheel figured I'd see
if
> >drawings or examples already existed. If anybody has drawings, let me
know
> >where to get them. (I am working from the flying and glider manual
> >drawings, a set of GN-1 drawings and taking hints from a set of flybaby
> >drawings)
> >
> >after this fuselage I have had enough of sticks for a while ;-)
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Mike
> >Always look on the bright side of life....
> >lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it...
> >Always look at the bright side of death...
> >(Life of Brian... Monty Python)
> >
> >Hail Brian
> >IHA 110
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite
Visit http://freeworld.excite.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
I just ordered mine from AS&S. Wicks has it too. I
suppose that you could use door skins but they are
probably harder to find.
Dave
>
>A question about the plywood for the gussets and fuseage,
>does it have to be marine grade mohagany or can we use
>something easier to aquire? I was curious as to what
>everyone else used. Thanks
>Carl
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
You can order 12"x48" sheets of AC grade ply from Balsa USA around $7
bucks or from AS&S for $12. You decide. I chose Balsa USA ( 1 800 225
7287). But then again I'm cheep. Shipping is something like 5 bucks.
Never had to wait long for it either.
Chris Tracy, Still waiting for my spruce.
(sacramento)
writes:
>
>
> I just ordered mine from AS&S. Wicks has it too. I
> suppose that you could use door skins but they are
> probably harder to find.
>
> Dave
>
>
> >
> >A question about the plywood for the gussets and fuseage,
> >does it have to be marine grade mohagany or can we use
> >something easier to aquire? I was curious as to what
> >everyone else used. Thanks
> >Carl
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Here are some more sourses for plywood,
B&D International
http://www.bd-international.com/
Birch
$42 per 61x61" sheet of 1/16
Add $10 per order to orders less than $200
Anderson International
http://www.aitwood.com/ultrathinplywood.htm
birch
$38 per 61x61" sheet of 1/16
Add $10 per order to orders less than $200
Riteco Supply
713-896-6200 (no website yet)
Importers of Hoop Pine plywood. Avail in 1/16 and 1/8" only.
I just recieved a sample of the ply and it looks every bit as suitable as
birch,
and cheaper too. TEAM uses this stuff exclusively.
$38 per 61x61" sheet of 1/16
1/16 3x6 29.25 4x8 $48 3.4 oz per sqr
1/8 4x8 $42 5.08 oz per square foot.
I just ordered birch 1/16 from AIT since another builder is buying from them
and we combinded purchases. Had that not been the case I would have gone
for the Hoop Pine.
I used B&D for my piet about 4 years ago. Good to work with too.
Aircraft Spruce only has 48x48" sheets.
SteveE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | FW: Pietenpol Air Camper Web Site |
-----Original Message-----
From: pauljshenton [mailto:PaulJShenton(at)compuserve.com]
Subject: Pietenpol Air Camper Web Site
Gents, I obtained your e-mail addresses from the BPA site and thought I'd
drop you a short note to let you know about a UK based Air camper web site
that I am having a go at producing.....I know I should be in the workshop
really, but most of the work is done away from home on a laptop!
The site can be found at:
www.flyerworld.com/shenty/ukaircampers
Let me know what you think, and please pass on any material that would
suit! Also forward this to any interested parties you know of.
p.s Alan I haven't forgotten about the flight in my Yak 52 that I promised
you last year...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Steve,
Your hoop pine plywood is just a click away too
http://www.aitwood.com/australianhooppine.htm#
1/16" 4' X 8' sheet for $44.80 or 1/16" 3' X 6' sheet for $22.50 + $10.00
cut & package charge for UPS. If your order hasn't been shipped, you might have
time to include it.
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J Maj 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Potential builder needs cockpit dimensions |
Hi,
I'm new to the list and considering building one of these great airplanes.
Can anyone give me the shoulder dimensions of the cockpit?
Thanks,
Dave Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conrad, Bart D" <Bart.Conrad(at)na.boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Potential builder needs cockpit dimensions |
Shoulder width is 21 3/4 inches. If you want to install shoulder seatbelt
harnesses be sure and adjust the turtledeck height (higher).
> ----------
> From: Foelker David J Maj
> 50FTS/ADO[SMTP:david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil]
> Reply To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 11:08 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Potential builder needs cockpit dimensions
>
>
>
> Hi,
> I'm new to the list and considering building one of these great airplanes.
> Can anyone give me the shoulder dimensions of the cockpit?
> Thanks,
> Dave Foelker
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Potential builder needs cockpit dimensions |
David,
Bart's last post about the 21 3/4" is why I'm planning on building my Piet
two inches wider, that's just a little tight for a "full-figured" guy like
me! There's lots of flexibility in the design, so some tweaking can be done,
it just takes careful consideration to make it right.
If you don't have it already, you can get the 1932 Flying and Glider
Manual from EAA, and that will give you a small seet of plans that you could
use to evaluate the design. If you get serious, you can then order the more
"up-to-date" plans from Donald Pietenpol.
Good luck in your quest!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
January 30, 2000 - February 23, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bm