Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bo
April 10, 2000 - June 14, 2000
A friendly comment. The continental is too light an engine for the Piet. The
addtional weight of the starter & altenator will help, but the wing will
still have to be moved back & the engine fwd.
Think CG!
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/08/00 |
Not to mention the transponder and encoder regs!!!!
>
> In response to Ken from Iowa re: Cont. A-79-9
>
> Save the weight & hassle Ken, put a blank flange on the starter port and
prop
> it.
> I had the same engine, also without an impulse mag, on my J-5 and only
once
> in 15 years did it not start by the second flip - that day it was 101
with
> 99% humidity - and I think that ol' Bugsmasher was trying to tell me
> something!
> Also - I didn't have to put up with battery, generator, wiring system,
> starter weight and attendant problems etc.
> DG
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I stopped at the Mankato, Mn. airport on Wed. night and saw the following
note posted on the bulletin board:
Pietenpol Air camper, but better, with a Luscombe wing, tubular steel
fuselage, 110 hp, built 1994, 25 hours,
only $9750.00 settle estate
507-283-2406 Rita
________________________________________________________________________________
How much extar does the EA-82 weigh compaired too the EA-81. Found 82 in
bone yard for $350.00.
Steve
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | windshields like a Stearman |
what type and/or size aluminum is recommended to build Stearman style
windshields? appreciate any help.
DickG.
GN-1 builder in Ft. Myers, FL (dickmarg(at)peganet.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
Hey!
You Piet folks out there???
It's been real quiet the last few days.
Somebody say something.......
OK Ok Ok.. Lets talk about covering. I'm ready to cover the arse end of
my GN.
I tried the Polyfiber routine at Sun N Fun. It looks like the way to go.
What do you all think?
Seemed really easy.
Oh yeah. Sun N Fun was great as usual. I'll post a little summary to the
group as soon as I get a chance. DARN I am a busy man. Thanks go to Dick
Navratil and Charlie Rubeck for their time and expertise. Thanks also to
Doc, Alan, Ted, Larry Harrison, Alan Wise(flew in his Piet), Bill Rewey
(sorry I didnt get to meet you - love that Navy scheme on the Piet you
brung), and whoever flew in the sweet little green GN. I swear the names
get mixed up, but ... You all know who came, visited and spoke.
We had a great shop this year. Met dozens of "Piet Heads" and even produced
a few new projects I think.
Wish you all could have made it.
I'll post more later,
Only In America! This is Too Much Fun!
Later, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
My Piet is ready to cover and I decided to wait for SNF to research. I
think the Poly Fiber is the way to go!
The flammability of nitrate dopes is one of the things that did it for me.
I'm flying a pill of kindling I don't want anything else that's flammable.
I've tried to minimize the fuel potential. Now I've stopped the covering
fire problem by going with Poly Fiber. I took the covering seminar and I
was surprised how well I did on the sample stabilizer. I'm sure I'll have
some problems on the curved surfaces but I fell much more confident now. I
bought the book and video on covering. Wish they had a 2 day course nearby
because I would sure go.
Greg
Ready to cover.... It's a shame to cover all that beautiful wood....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
Hey Bert--- been raining for two days now, either too windy or too overcast the
past two weeks to do any spam-can flying, so when the wife is not dragging me
off somewhere it's back to making more sawdust. doing the final sanding on the
entire tail section. just need to recess the elevator hinges in the horizontal
stabilizer and the entire tail section is ready for varnish. want some warmer
and dryer weather for that. Have already started the wing center section. have
decided on the half moon cut-out as apposed to the flop. I like the looks of it
and especially the idea of being able to look up.
Wish I could have made SnF, oh well, will for sure be at Brodhead.
need to visit the bro-in-law in the hospital this am than back into the shop for
more Piet fun. I'll be watching this list for comments on the covering process
as that step is rapidly approching for me and I'll take any pointers I can get.
Watched an ultra-lit Jenny getting it's wings covered a couple of weeks ago.
said to myself, "self, you could handle that with no problem at all. " looks
like fun.. Lot's of great old timers and stories going on at 10 Charlie.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
NX529PJ
Conoly wrote:
>
> Hey!
>
> You Piet folks out there???
>
> It's been real quiet the last few days.
>
> Somebody say something.......
>
> OK Ok Ok.. Lets talk about covering. I'm ready to cover the arse end of
> my GN.
> I tried the Polyfiber routine at Sun N Fun. It looks like the way to go.
> What do you all think?
> Seemed really easy.
>
> Oh yeah. Sun N Fun was great as usual. I'll post a little summary to the
> group as soon as I get a chance. DARN I am a busy man. Thanks go to Dick
> Navratil and Charlie Rubeck for their time and expertise. Thanks also to
> Doc, Alan, Ted, Larry Harrison, Alan Wise(flew in his Piet), Bill Rewey
> (sorry I didnt get to meet you - love that Navy scheme on the Piet you
> brung), and whoever flew in the sweet little green GN. I swear the names
> get mixed up, but ... You all know who came, visited and spoke.
>
> We had a great shop this year. Met dozens of "Piet Heads" and even produced
> a few new projects I think.
> Wish you all could have made it.
>
> I'll post more later,
>
> Only In America! This is Too Much Fun!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
First - the Sun'n'Fun thing was a blast. This year, my wife and I drove down from
Wisconsin seated on Corinthian leather. First time I have not flown, and
first time my wife Dee attended.
Great to see Bill Rewey, who flew his Piet all the way from Wisconsin again. Thanks
to Bert Conoly for honchoing the woodcraft shop, along with Dick Navratil
and Charlie Rubeck (Charlie, I'm still working on your elixer of life). Had
dinner with Alan Wise and his wife at the OX-5 party. Ted Brousseau has added
another Piet to his stable in Naples, FL (trailered it down from Michigan last
summer). Again, thanks for the flight, Ted. And, of course, William Wynne's
Corvair forum had to extend the discussion outside the tent after the one
hour period was up.
As a Sun'n'Fun Raider (we are the volunteers who pick up all your garbage) I manage
to keep busy, but always make sure I get to the forums and workshops and
the flightline. Can you imagine a bunch of guys flying down in their Bonanzas
to haul garbage? Great group! And our business is picking up every year! I
book a condo near the Lakeland airport each year, and may have room for a person
or two next year (we sleep six people or so).
Now to the fabric covering process. In the last two years, John Monnett and I
have done probably three Cubs and two Vagabonds using the Superflite fabric system.
You need to be careful of your breathing while spraying, so use a low pressure
system with a breathing supply and a paper suit and mask. We drape off
a section of shop for proper overboard ventilation of fumes. You have to mix
just what you need for spraying and work right along, as the pot life is limited
to a couple of hours. Anything left over is discarded, so have some small
parts (ailerons, tail) where you can use up any excess spray material (spray
the wings or fuselage first).
When taping, I have found that the cement will show through the final coats if
it is applied too liberally out past the pinked edge of the tape. So I use some
MEK on a rag to carefully "chemically sand" the edges of the tapes after they
have dried. This removes any excess cement, but ensures the pinked edges being
glued down. It's a bit of an art, but you will learn real fast.
The Superflite system is very similar to the Stits PolyFiber system, which I have
also used. Both are very good. Don't worry about your ability to cover the
curves (not many on a Piet anyway). The warm iron will do just fine. Be sure
to set up your iron at the proper temperature (the book tells you how). This
is key to the shrinking, so don't short cut here. Use the proper thermometer
and do it right.
Lately, of course, I've been out of the fabric thing, since the Sonex is all metal.
The Sonex will not take the Corvair engine (too heavy), but the next Sonex
already has the first of a new series of big VW engines installed and should
be flying in a couple of weeks. We expect some 75-80 hp, and that will bring
the scratch built Sonex into the $10,000 range, complete with engine. Meanwhile,
I'm starting a new Corvair buildup for my Piet. (Too many planes, not enough
years)
For you Ford Model A people - Bob Whittier says in the April issue of "Experimenter"
(page 41) that he has heard from Model A nuts that easily get 70 hp and
some get 200 hp souped up. This comes from "Secrets" magazine, P.O.Box 957436,
Hoffman Estates, IL 60195-7436. Phone (312) 558-9338. Get your "Experimenter"
magazine from EAA for more of Bob's info on suppliers, etc. He lists Western
Aircraft Supplies, 623 Marketville Road, NE, Calgary, Alberta T2E 5K1 as a
supplier for Sitka spruce wing construction kits @ $862 US and fuselage/tail
kits for $686 US. There is a $30 US crating charge for each kit.
You can call Replicraft (973)402-2102 in Boonton NJ (e-mail replicraft(at)aol.com)
for their catalog of Piet parts and supplies and building kits.
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty's catalog lists spruce of all sizes, and also has a
spruce wood kit for the GN-1 for $823 (at last printing).
After the woodshop sessions at Sun'n'Fun, it turns out that Sitka spruce is the
lumber of choice for a Piet, but significant money can be saved by going to an
alternate for many parts (fir, cedar, etc.) Just know what you are doing strengthwise
if you substitute.
You're right, Bert! Only in America! Pietenpols Forever!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Poly Fiber - Rib Stitching |
I'm sure I saw a Piet last year in the Wichita area that didn't have rib
stitches. Does everyone recommend rib stitching or have some of you glued?
I'm conserned about 'drumming' so I'm probably going to stitch. I was just
wondering.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Poly Fiber - Rib Stitching |
Greg,
Just by the process of covering, you'll be glueing. I rib stitched my
first my first project, Fisher 404, ( built as U/L) because of a
recommendation by my AP friend. I had alot of fun and glad to get the
experience from it.
Fisher's four wings were only 9' long, and took less than a day each to do
by myself.
Get the Poly Fiber book for ten bucks, and it makes the whole covering
process easy and fun.
It's a must have , to me.
Just another thought, if you ever get a chance , fly above a fabric
covered plane and look at the low pressure above the wing "mounding" up the
fabric on top of the wing , between the ribs. This is what they tell you
will happen in a " glue only " condition. One glue point fails and passes
the larger load to the adjoining ribs, wich will probably fail quickly, and
so on. When the airfoil is lost , you can't fly anymore,,,,crunch.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2000 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poly Fiber - Rib Stitching
>
>I'm sure I saw a Piet last year in the Wichita area that didn't have rib
>stitches. Does everyone recommend rib stitching or have some of you glued?
>I'm conserned about 'drumming' so I'm probably going to stitch. I was just
>wondering.
>
>Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
Bert,
Did you ever get your tail section covered? Also did you get pictures of
the Piets at SNF if not I have some to share but I didn't get as many views
as I should have
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing.
>
> Hey!
>
> You Piet folks out there???
>
> It's been real quiet the last few days.
>
> Somebody say something.......
>
>
> OK Ok Ok.. Lets talk about covering. I'm ready to cover the arse end of
> my GN.
> I tried the Polyfiber routine at Sun N Fun. It looks like the way to go.
> What do you all think?
> Seemed really easy.
>
> Oh yeah. Sun N Fun was great as usual. I'll post a little summary to the
> group as soon as I get a chance. DARN I am a busy man. Thanks go to Dick
> Navratil and Charlie Rubeck for their time and expertise. Thanks also to
> Doc, Alan, Ted, Larry Harrison, Alan Wise(flew in his Piet), Bill Rewey
> (sorry I didnt get to meet you - love that Navy scheme on the Piet you
> brung), and whoever flew in the sweet little green GN. I swear the names
> get mixed up, but ... You all know who came, visited and spoke.
>
> We had a great shop this year. Met dozens of "Piet Heads" and even
produced
> a few new projects I think.
> Wish you all could have made it.
>
> I'll post more later,
>
> Only In America! This is Too Much Fun!
>
> Later, Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Poly Fiber - Rib Stitching |
Thanks Walt.
I did buy the book and the new EAA SportAviation Covering video at the show.
I just started watching the video last night and I can see I'll have a small
TV and VCR by the plane when I start covering.
The video seems to be well planned and gives good references to pages in the
book.
The book is well written and seems to cover everything I've had questions
about so far. I'm supposed to get quotes on
complete covering packages from several dealers this week. I'll pass these
on to the group as soon as I get them.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Ingraham" <iflyul(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
Hi Greg ....
Covering the curved surfaces is just as easy as the flats. The key is taking
your time. Good luck.
>From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing.
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:18:14 -0500
>
>
>My Piet is ready to cover and I decided to wait for SNF to research. I
>think the Poly Fiber is the way to go!
>The flammability of nitrate dopes is one of the things that did it for me.
>I'm flying a pill of kindling I don't want anything else that's flammable.
>I've tried to minimize the fuel potential. Now I've stopped the covering
>fire problem by going with Poly Fiber. I took the covering seminar and I
>was surprised how well I did on the sample stabilizer. I'm sure I'll have
>some problems on the curved surfaces but I fell much more confident now. I
>bought the book and video on covering. Wish they had a 2 day course nearby
>because I would sure go.
>
>Greg
>Ready to cover.... It's a shame to cover all that beautiful wood....
>
>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | top tank, bottom tank, both tanks |
Group,
I can do pretty good on Oxy-Acet welding of 4130, but because of not being
able to find terne plate, I've gone to aluminum tank(s). Few days ago a
friend who is a certified welder, showed me the ropes on the company tig
welder. The first tank that I did was the top ( original) tank. Well I
guess I made it too hot, because of the distortion and the beads were as big
as your wrist.
Today I did the fwd tank, and it came out pretty well, and looks good.
Heres the question...
Is anyone running with just a fwd tank? ( mine cames in at just over 12
gals.) Or is it time for me to make another top tank. Was going to have a
gravity transfer from top to front, but then, with a 4GPH burn rate, who can
sit in a plane for 3hrs?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: top tank, bottom tank, both tanks |
Oh , my tanks pic is on...
http://waltevans.homepage.com/photoalbum1.html
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, April 22, 2000 6:01 PM
Subject: top tank, bottom tank, both tanks
>Group,
> I can do pretty good on Oxy-Acet welding of 4130, but because of not
being
>able to find terne plate, I've gone to aluminum tank(s). Few days ago a
>friend who is a certified welder, showed me the ropes on the company tig
>welder. The first tank that I did was the top ( original) tank. Well I
>guess I made it too hot, because of the distortion and the beads were as
big
>as your wrist.
>Today I did the fwd tank, and it came out pretty well, and looks good.
>Heres the question...
>Is anyone running with just a fwd tank? ( mine cames in at just over 12
>gals.) Or is it time for me to make another top tank. Was going to have a
>gravity transfer from top to front, but then, with a 4GPH burn rate, who
can
>sit in a plane for 3hrs?
>walt
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Click here for Free Video!!
>http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Airplaneman123(at)aol.com |
Steve,
The EA-82 is almost 12 inches wider than the 81. Not sure about how much
more it weighs. I understand the biggest negative about using the 82 is that
the distributor is mounted on the end of the head, on the same side that the
prop is mounted. Therefore, a longer extension is needed on the prop hub to
clear the distributor, which puts excessive gyroscopic loads on the crank.
You would then have to use a reduction, which is about $2,000.00.
I decided to put my Piet on hold and build a miniMax first to get my feet
wet. I modified the fuselage to accept an 81 that I bought completely rebuilt
and FLIGHT ready for $550.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Weight and Balance question |
Greetings,
I am close to starting an Aircamper or GN-1, but have a question
about weight and balance. I am 6'00" and 225lbs. Am I going to run
into aft center of gravity limit problem with out changing the design
of the aircraft?
I'm looking at a corvair engine for power. I remember reading about
Mike Cuy shifting the wings back and extending the engine mount for
his 200lb weight.
The weight and balance spreadsheet I pulled off aircamper.org has the
CG range as 18.1 to 20.7 (with the leading edge as the datum). Is
this range the same for the GN-1?
Hopefully, I will have dropped some pounds by the time this thing is
finished regardless.
Maybe I've got a new dieting angle -- "Fly to lose weight!"
Thanks for any help
Kirk Huizenga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and Balance question |
<kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
>Greetings,
>
>I am close to starting an Aircamper or GN-1, but have a question
>about weight and balance. I am 6'00" and 225lbs. Am I going to run
>into aft center of gravity limit problem with out changing the design
>of the aircraft?
>
>Thanks for any help
>Kirk Huizenga
Hi Kirk:
The GN-1 was designed for a 65. As far as I know, no W&B problem there.
The Aircamper - long or short fuselage- has used a variety of engines of
various weights. To compensate for the aft CG ( which is always the case,
more so with the long fuselage ), either alone or in combination, the engine
is moved fwd & the wing back.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Pictures |
Hello everybody. I've added a few new pictures to my website.
I have been trying to figure out how to put in filler strips around the
perimeter of the fuselage sides for covering. I have struggled with whether
to try to cover OVER the metal fittings or cover right up to the edges of
them. It looks like addiing filler strips and somehow "bridging' over the
fittings themselves with possibly a thin metal or plywood strip may be in
order. The metal fittings are so big and heavy on the GN it's hard to work
over them with fabric. I'm open to suggestions - I know my e-mail is
confusing, sorry.
Anyway take a look at my pictures if you want...
http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/Mvc-004F.JPG this is a picture of the
filler strips
Thanks, Bert
(Who has decided to re-name his plane a GN-1 "Air Anvil")
http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/gn1picts.htm New pictures 4/23/00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Pictures |
Bert,,, Looks like it's coming along fine. The filler strips had me
wondering when I first read my Piet
plans, but after being on this list a lot of things had cleared up for me.
I put a few pics of the progress of my project on my web site.
here is the addresss if you want to check it out.
http://www.megsinet.net/~skycarl/pietpage1.html
there's about four pages thrown together.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 Pictures
>
> Hello everybody. I've added a few new pictures to my website.
>
> I have been trying to figure out how to put in filler strips around the
> perimeter of the fuselage sides for covering. I have struggled with
whether
> to try to cover OVER the metal fittings or cover right up to the edges of
> them. It looks like addiing filler strips and somehow "bridging' over the
> fittings themselves with possibly a thin metal or plywood strip may be in
> order. The metal fittings are so big and heavy on the GN it's hard to
work
> over them with fabric. I'm open to suggestions - I know my e-mail is
> confusing, sorry.
>
> Anyway take a look at my pictures if you want...
> http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/Mvc-004F.JPG this is a picture of
the
> filler strips
>
>
> Thanks, Bert
> (Who has decided to re-name his plane a GN-1 "Air Anvil")
>
> http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/gn1picts.htm New pictures 4/23/00
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Pictures |
Carl. Looks nice. You have gotten a lot done since Feb 2000! Some of us
oldsters have been at it for several years, and haven made much more
progress than you have. Keep up the good work. Add pictures all along,
too.
See ya. Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 Pictures
>
> Bert,,, Looks like it's coming along fine. The filler strips had me
> wondering when I first read my Piet
> plans, but after being on this list a lot of things had cleared up for me.
> I put a few pics of the progress of my project on my web site.
> here is the addresss if you want to check it out.
> http://www.megsinet.net/~skycarl/pietpage1.html
> there's about four pages thrown together.
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 2:52 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 Pictures
>
>
> >
> > Hello everybody. I've added a few new pictures to my website.
> >
> > I have been trying to figure out how to put in filler strips around the
> > perimeter of the fuselage sides for covering. I have struggled with
> whether
> > to try to cover OVER the metal fittings or cover right up to the edges
of
> > them. It looks like addiing filler strips and somehow "bridging' over
the
> > fittings themselves with possibly a thin metal or plywood strip may be
in
> > order. The metal fittings are so big and heavy on the GN it's hard to
> work
> > over them with fabric. I'm open to suggestions - I know my e-mail is
> > confusing, sorry.
> >
> > Anyway take a look at my pictures if you want...
> > http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/Mvc-004F.JPG this is a picture of
> the
> > filler strips
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Bert
> > (Who has decided to re-name his plane a GN-1 "Air Anvil")
> >
> > http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/gn1picts.htm New pictures
4/23/00
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Darn I love this Homebuilding thing. |
Thanks. I'm calling the suppliers this morning. I was hoping to have my
prices so I could place an order by now.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Control system pulleys |
I'm about done with the left wing on my Piet (3-pc wing) and ready to install
the pulleys that reroute the aileron control cables from parallel to the spar
out to the aileron horns. I got ahold of 4 3" phenolic aircraft pulleys, but
they appear to be too large to fit inside the wing at the angles needed. I
understand that there is a minimum recommended pulley diameter for a given
cable size .. I plan on using 3/32 cable... but I can't find anything in any
of the Tony Bengelis books I have or any of the other reference materials I
have. Anyone have those specs? What size pulleys are commonly used for this?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Control system pulleys |
I used 1/8" ss cable and used 2" pulleys everywhere. I ran into the same
problem as you described, but never found a difinitive answer to the minimum
pulley diameter for a specific cable size.
Steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control system pulleys
I'm about done with the left wing on my Piet (3-pc wing) and ready to
install
the pulleys that reroute the aileron control cables from parallel to the
spar
out to the aileron horns. I got ahold of 4 3" phenolic aircraft pulleys, but
they appear to be too large to fit inside the wing at the angles needed. I
understand that there is a minimum recommended pulley diameter for a given
cable size .. I plan on using 3/32 cable... but I can't find anything in any
of the Tony Bengelis books I have or any of the other reference materials I
have. Anyone have those specs? What size pulleys are commonly used for this?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control system pulleys |
Reference Tony's book "The Sportplane Builder" page 126 on pulleys.
Dick G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control system pulleys |
Matt,,,,, Two inch pulleys should do it,,,, for 1/8 and 3/32 cable.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control system pulleys
>
> I'm about done with the left wing on my Piet (3-pc wing) and ready to
install
> the pulleys that reroute the aileron control cables from parallel to the
spar
> out to the aileron horns. I got ahold of 4 3" phenolic aircraft pulleys,
but
> they appear to be too large to fit inside the wing at the angles needed. I
> understand that there is a minimum recommended pulley diameter for a given
> cable size .. I plan on using 3/32 cable... but I can't find anything in
any
> of the Tony Bengelis books I have or any of the other reference materials
I
> have. Anyone have those specs? What size pulleys are commonly used for
this?
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control system pulleys |
Matt, I don't think I would use 3/32 for primary. Go to 1/8. I think a 2"
is good enough for 1/8. Call me, we need to talk/get together. I will be
flying the Travel Air this weekend. You should come up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control system pulleys |
Matt .
Aircaft Spruce and Specialty catalogue (page 135 )has some info on what
pulleys should be used for certain size cables and what pulleys can be used
for what angles (cable angles). Also the Tony Bingelis book has a sectio0n
on pulleys and when to use certain ones as well as fairleads and their use.
II can't remember exactly where I got my info, but I could dig it up.
E-mail me if you need more info. Good Luck,
Cheers, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control system pulleys
>
> I'm about done with the left wing on my Piet (3-pc wing) and ready to
install
> the pulleys that reroute the aileron control cables from parallel to the
spar
> out to the aileron horns. I got ahold of 4 3" phenolic aircraft pulleys,
but
> they appear to be too large to fit inside the wing at the angles needed. I
> understand that there is a minimum recommended pulley diameter for a given
> cable size .. I plan on using 3/32 cable... but I can't find anything in
any
> of the Tony Bengelis books I have or any of the other reference materials
I
> have. Anyone have those specs? What size pulleys are commonly used for
this?
>
> Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol list: Control System pulleys |
The minimum size pulley useable is determined by the
kind of cable being used. # of strands of # of wires.
Hence: a 6 X 7 cable has 6 strands of 7 wires each.
There are formulas for the different variations.
E-mail back, with the kind of cable you have, and I'll
see if I can find the right formula.
This info. is per the Machinery's Handbook.
Jared Wilkinson
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control system pulleys |
From the "Aeronautic Safety Code", dated 1925, it states:
"Where pulleys are used with flexible cable and the change of direction of the
cable is 15 degrees or more, the pulley diameter shall be at least 20 times the
cable diameter."
Use a 2" pulley for 3/32 cable and 2.5" pulley for 1/8 cable.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis.
>>> 04/25 3:38 PM >>>
I'm about done with the left wing on my Piet (3-pc wing) and ready to install
the pulleys that reroute the aileron control cables from parallel to the spar
out to the aileron horns. I got ahold of 4 3" phenolic aircraft pulleys, but
they appear to be too large to fit inside the wing at the angles needed. I
understand that there is a minimum recommended pulley diameter for a given
cable size .. I plan on using 3/32 cable... but I can't find anything in any
of the Tony Bengelis books I have or any of the other reference materials I
have. Anyone have those specs? What size pulleys are commonly used for this?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Poly Fiber - Rib Stitching |
Greg,
You will definately want to rib stitch. most ultra-lights glue their
fabric to the ribs, but it's not advisable on larger airplanes, even one
as small as a Piet.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and now I actually looked
at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on places cheaper then
AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in structural strength
but how much I wonder. I will most likely just stick with mahogany and
be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to glue the fuse together I
will forget all about the price and finaly see an airplane taking shape.
( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
Thanks
( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris,
Try Capitol Plywood, right there in Sac. They have several different types
of marine plywoods available. Get a part number from them, then have Home
Depot order it, as Capitol is wholesale only. Check 'em out! :o) Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Chris,,,,, Wag-Aero as good deals on eighth inch plywood. and you get it
fast.
you can also check out old wood boat restorers. The floor piece is the one
that's
gonna get you. But stick with the mahogany like the plans say.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Wood
>
>
> I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and now I actually looked
> at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on places cheaper then
> AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in structural strength
> but how much I wonder. I will most likely just stick with mahogany and
> be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to glue the fuse together I
> will forget all about the price and finaly see an airplane taking shape.
> ( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
>
> Thanks
> ( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | PLEASE READ: Network Problems To Matronics... |
Dear Listers,
My ISP is upgrading their network today 4/30 and tomorrow 5/1. I
noticed that Nameservice (DNS) went down last night around 3am which
causes all sorts of problems. If your message post was rejected between
about 3am 4/30 and 1pm 4/30, please repost as it was rejected do to the
DNS being down. I've redirected my systems to a different DNS server in
the mean time and things seem to be working right now. In any case, be
aware that there may be continuing issues over the next couple of days
both posting email messages and accessing the web server.
My ISP *promises* that things are going to be so much better after the
upgrade! We'll see... ;-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Great minds discuss ideas,
Average minds discuss events,
Small minds discuss people...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
I bought hoop pine from Riteco in Texas. half the
price, less weight, and very strong.
del
--- Chris A Tracy wrote:
>
>
>
> I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and
> now I actually looked
> at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on
> places cheaper then
> AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade
> BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in
> structural strength
> but how much I wonder. I will most likely just
> stick with mahogany and
> be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to
> glue the fuse together I
> will forget all about the price and finaly see an
> airplane taking shape.
> ( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
>
> Thanks
> ( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
It was time to make the firewall, so my AP friend loaned me his metal
shrinker for the curved overlap on top. I didn't know how much to overlap,
so I went with 3/4". Guess it can be cut down later , if necessary.
This thing is quite a gadget, and takes some time to get used to. Man, who
thinks of these things?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
http://www.gatherround.com/u51000a56126pLook.invt
I know it's mot a Pete but here are some photos of my current plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
This is Ken from Iowa. I am wondering if it is possible to take out the
control sticks and tourque tube after the plane is finished. Also do you
put in and inspection holes for repairs or adjustments in this area? I
assume all the seats are gluedin solid. I am building a GN-1 Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Ken,,,, I'm using screws on my seats so I can get the controls out if need
be. I figure that with two inspection
holes where the bellcrank is will give full access to the cable adjustments
and connections.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wizzard187(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
>
> This is Ken from Iowa. I am wondering if it is possible to take out the
> control sticks and tourque tube after the plane is finished. Also do
you
> put in and inspection holes for repairs or adjustments in this area? I
> assume all the seats are gluedin solid. I am building a GN-1 Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Chisum" <toddc12(at)hotmail.com> |
piper-cub-builders(at)onelist.com, sonerai-list(at)matronics.com,
STOL(at)onelist.com, volksplane(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | OTHER: Porterfield Info |
I apologize for the off-subject post, but maybe someone can help with this
request. My brother is almost finished restoring a Porterfield 75C
(sometimes called a CP-75). Information on this model is virtually
non-existant, and he is looking for ANY information, photos, etc about this
model of Porterfield. There is only one other listed in the FAA registry.
If you have any info at all, please contact me OFFLINE at
toddc12(at)hotmail.com Thanks...Todd Chisum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I used birch. Got a sample of the hoop pine from Riteco. I wouldn't
hesitate to use it. Looks like good stuff, and passes the boil tests.
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of del
magsam
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ply Wood
I bought hoop pine from Riteco in Texas. half the
price, less weight, and very strong.
del
--- Chris A Tracy wrote:
>
>
>
> I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and
> now I actually looked
> at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on
> places cheaper then
> AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade
> BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in
> structural strength
> but how much I wonder. I will most likely just
> stick with mahogany and
> be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to
> glue the fuse together I
> will forget all about the price and finaly see an
> airplane taking shape.
> ( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
>
> Thanks
> ( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Greetings,
I just purchased an aircamper built in 1981 and am planning on
rebuilding it. I'm sure I'll have many questions in the next number
of months, but what I'm wondering now is if anyone on this list has
received basic VFR (Private Pilot) training in a Piet?
I am working towards my license and would like to use my Pietenpol
with a hired instructor for most of the training.
I'd love to hear any experiences you've had in obtaining a license in
a homebuilt taildragger.
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
There was a big discussion about that about a 5 months
ago. And there seems to be a gray area in the laws
that can be taken two ways. It says that you can not
use a experimental for hire. some instructers will
instruct in it, and most won't. Of course you have to
find one that is familiar with it, and then see how he
interprets the FAA reg.
--- Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> wrote:
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I just purchased an aircamper built in 1981 and am
> planning on
> rebuilding it. I'm sure I'll have many questions in
> the next number
> of months, but what I'm wondering now is if anyone
> on this list has
> received basic VFR (Private Pilot) training in a
> Piet?
>
> I am working towards my license and would like to
> use my Pietenpol
> with a hired instructor for most of the training.
>
> I'd love to hear any experiences you've had in
> obtaining a license in
> a homebuilt taildragger.
>
> Thanks
> Kirk
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Gentlemen:
I postyed this Sunday Night but for some reason it never actually made it to
the list.
I'm ready to build my aluminum cockpit coamings (sp)?? What size and type
aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood but
it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer - do
you just use zinc chromate???
So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
Thanks, Bert
(Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Aluminum is better, as it can be taken off easily for reasons other than
instrument access (working on other components inside, repairing dents,
scratches, etc. in sheet metal). You can get perfect aluminum from air
conditioning duct place, which is usually 3003, or any sheet metal place.
The stuff is cheap, soft, and easy to work with. I have always used .040
on larger airplanes, maybe .032 on a Piet, though, would be sufficient.
The best primer I have found is Dupont Variprime self etching primer, not
cheap but the best. Number 6 brass wood screws into the fairing
strip/longeron is fine for attaching the metal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Plywood |
I am also getting ready to order materials for the fuse and I've heard
mention twice about hoop pine from Riteco in Tx. Could someone send me more
information on Riteco and how I could order from them
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Hey Bert
I used .032 5051 aluminum. It may be slight overkill but I concidered the
possibility of dents from use. I havent primed yet. Work is so busy I
havent done much lately.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I postyed this Sunday Night but for some reason it never actually made it
to
> the list.
>
> I'm ready to build my aluminum cockpit coamings (sp)?? What size and
type
> aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood
but
> it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
> instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
> panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
> coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer -
do
> you just use zinc chromate???
>
> So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
>
> Thanks, Bert
> (Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
>
> http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Hi bert
I used .032 It's easy to form and thick enough to not dent very easily.
Work is absolutly nuts but I'm still managing a couple of hours a week on
the Piet for therapy.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> I postyed this Sunday Night but for some reason it never actually made it
to
> the list.
>
> I'm ready to build my aluminum cockpit coamings (sp)?? What size and
type
> aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood
but
> it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
> instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
> panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
> coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer -
do
> you just use zinc chromate???
>
> So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
>
> Thanks, Bert
> (Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
>
> http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I've got a big weekend planned. I'm going to haul my wing to Benton
Airport, and mount it on the fuselage. Some guys from work are going to come
over friday, to help get this wing out of my living room, and mount it on the
trailer. Saturday morning, just before dawn (not much wind at this time of
day...even in Kansas), were going to make the 15 mile trip to the airport,
traveling about 10mph. My biggest concern is to get this wing mounted...undam
aged !! After it is assembeled to the fuselage, I'm going apply for my
registration, using the 'NX' designation, and eliminating the requirement for
the word 'Experimental' on the side of the plane. One of these days I'll
get a web site going, to show the world another Pietenpol !! Wish me luck
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Anyone have a suggestion on a good source for 6x600 wheels for a one and a
half inch axle?
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
Glad to hear everingthing is coming along Chuck. Have you guys decided when
your having the next Benton Piet Flyin?
I was hanger flying last night at the Emporia Airport and I got two guys
excited about building Piets. They're coming down to look at my project
this weekend and I was wondering if you knew someone in the Wichita area
that might want to give them a ride? Seeing how my Piet is probably end of
summer from flying.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
Chuck:
Did you build the one piece wing? I am probibly gonna build the three
piece but I am interested in how come you picked the one piece.
Steve
>
> I've got a big weekend planned. I'm going to haul my wing to
> Benton
> Airport, and mount it on the fuselage. Some guys from work are
> going to come
> over friday, to help get this wing out of my living room, and mount
> it on the
> trailer. Saturday morning, just before dawn (not much wind at this
> time of
> day...even in Kansas), were going to make the 15 mile trip to the
> airport,
> traveling about 10mph. My biggest concern is to get this wing
> mounted...undam
> aged !! After it is assembeled to the fuselage, I'm going apply
> for my
> registration, using the 'NX' designation, and eliminating the
> requirement for
> the word 'Experimental' on the side of the plane. One of these
> days I'll
> get a web site going, to show the world another Pietenpol !! Wish
> me luck
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Piets for sale in AeroTrader |
Thought these might be of interest:
PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER, TT 50, Franklin 90 Hp, 2/10 gal
tanks (cowl & wing) intercom and dual controls, $13,000
serious inquiries only. Call 678-366-2412 or sanford.love(at)prodigy.net
Plane located at Cumming, GA. -AZW
Location: Clearwater, FL
1994 Pietenpol Aircamper/Ford Escort 1.9 liter, 25 hours,
$7,295. 507-283-2406, call Rita for details. -AZW
1983 Pietenpol, 160TAF, 460TTE, 85HP Continental, dk.
green, white, gold, $16,000 OBO. Based at Lakeland,
FL. Will be at Sun & Fun. Don Hall/Aviation, 863-644-2551. -BCB
Location: Clearwater, FL
PIETENPOL, AIRCAMPER, $19,995, Won Oshkosh 1999
outstanding workmanship/plans built catagory.,
(800)-276-6661.Location: Sanford, FL
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
In a message dated 5/5/00 8:22:19 AM Central Daylight Time, gyachts(at)kans.com
writes:
<< Glad to hear everingthing is coming along Chuck. Have you guys decided
when
your having the next Benton Piet Flyin?
I was hanger flying last night at the Emporia Airport and I got two guys
excited about building Piets. They're coming down to look at my project
this weekend and I was wondering if you knew someone in the Wichita area
that might want to give them a ride? Seeing how my Piet is probably end of
summer from flying.
Greg >>
Hey Greg, the Annual Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airport, will be on
Saturday, September 9, Yankee Two Kilo (Y2K). I don't know if any of the
Pietenpols in this area has the capacity to haul a 200lb payload, but I'm
planning on that kind of payload with mine. That's why I measure weight in
grams. I am very meticulus about weight, and also aerodynamics. This is
going to be an exciting summer !!
See y'all at the Fly-In this fall !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
In a message dated 5/5/00 8:58:05 AM Central Daylight Time, vistin(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Chuck:
Did you build the one piece wing? I am probibly gonna build the three
piece but I am interested in how come you picked the one piece.
Steve >>
Steve, I chose the one piece wing, because it's about 1360 grams lighter than
the 3 piece wing. As an added benefit, it is easier to build, however, it is
not easier to transport.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
Thanks Chuck.
Seeing how your getting ready to attach wings and all. Do you have a good
source on airfoil shape lift strut tubing for your wings? I found some good
caban(sp?) tubing at the yard this week but no lift strut tubing.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Copilot, small, but brave! |
Glad to announce the arrival of Andrew James Graham Holland
(AJ) at 1:05 pm Alberta time May 6, 2000 ! AJ doing fine
(also mother, father and grandmother(s). All were present, and
from what I understand, slightly overwhelmed.
6 pounds 11 ounces, slightly early but AOK, 19 inches (I would
call it a keeper). Blue eyes, and dark curly hair, a ladies man,
just like his Grandpa! Also a potential co-pilot.
HOO Haaa !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copilot, small, but brave! |
Congratulations, Ian, to you AND the mother/father/family. That's great.
Done sprouted a trio of my own over the years but hopefully a few years form
the "grand-pa" gig.
Best of luck to everybody.
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Holland" <iholland@microage-tb.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Copilot, small, but brave!
<iholland@microage-tb.com>
>
> Glad to announce the arrival of Andrew James Graham Holland
> (AJ) at 1:05 pm Alberta time May 6, 2000 ! AJ doing fine
> (also mother, father and grandmother(s). All were present, and
> from what I understand, slightly overwhelmed.
>
> 6 pounds 11 ounces, slightly early but AOK, 19 inches (I would
> call it a keeper). Blue eyes, and dark curly hair, a ladies man,
> just like his Grandpa! Also a potential co-pilot.
>
> HOO Haaa !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00 |
Thanks Gene. That seems to be the common theme from others , too.
Hey, Were you the one from down here near Tallahassee? It seem like I
remember that for some reason...
Will go with .030 to .035 aluminum probably.
Thanks, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/02/00
>
> Aluminum is better, as it can be taken off easily for reasons other than
> instrument access (working on other components inside, repairing dents,
> scratches, etc. in sheet metal). You can get perfect aluminum from air
> conditioning duct place, which is usually 3003, or any sheet metal place.
> The stuff is cheap, soft, and easy to work with. I have always used .040
> on larger airplanes, maybe .032 on a Piet, though, would be sufficient.
> The best primer I have found is Dupont Variprime self etching primer, not
> cheap but the best. Number 6 brass wood screws into the fairing
> strip/longeron is fine for attaching the metal.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Godwin Pacetti <gpacetti(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copilot, small, but brave! |
Congrats on the new co-pilot to the lucky ma and
pa and the whole family. Dean Pacetti
--- Ian Holland <iholland@microage-tb.com> wrote:
> <iholland@microage-tb.com>
>
> Glad to announce the arrival of Andrew James Graham
> Holland
> (AJ) at 1:05 pm Alberta time May 6, 2000 ! AJ
> doing fine
> (also mother, father and grandmother(s). All were
> present, and
> from what I understand, slightly overwhelmed.
>
> 6 pounds 11 ounces, slightly early but AOK, 19
> inches (I would
> call it a keeper). Blue eyes, and dark curly hair,
> a ladies man,
> just like his Grandpa! Also a potential co-pilot.
>
> HOO Haaa !!
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
We found some good oval shape lift strut material at 'Homebuilders
Heaven'...better known as The Yard Store, in Wichita (aircraft surplus). I
can spend hours there just looking around !!
Everything went great with moving my wing to Benton, this morning, and we got
it mounted on the fuse. Hopefully Doug & I will rig the wing symetry
tomorrow (Sunday afternoon), and get the lift struts done. It's way too
awsome to try to describe how great it feels to see this plane comming
together !!!!
YEEEEE HHAAAWW!!!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
What and when did you find your tubing? I called Friday and all they said
they had was .5" x 1" chromoly. Which would be great for cabane but not
lift struts.
Good luck on the wing. I wish I wasn't so busy I would drive down and
help/watch.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 06, 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing / Fuselage
>
>We found some good oval shape lift strut material at 'Homebuilders
>Heaven'...better known as The Yard Store, in Wichita (aircraft surplus).
I
>can spend hours there just looking around !!
>Everything went great with moving my wing to Benton, this morning, and we
got
>it mounted on the fuse. Hopefully Doug & I will rig the wing symetry
>tomorrow (Sunday afternoon), and get the lift struts done. It's way too
>awsome to try to describe how great it feels to see this plane comming
>together !!!!
> YEEEEE HHAAAWW!!!
>
>Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Take a look at
http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html
Then check out the specs on 6061-T6. If one still needs bigger numbers on
a 1200 # plane, review the above page and note that square stock 4130 can be
inserted for additional strength.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eugene Hubbard <gsquid(at)earthlink.net> |
As far as I can tell, the plans don't ever mention what kind of plywood to use.
Gene
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> Chris,,,,, Wag-Aero as good deals on eighth inch plywood. and you get it
> fast.
> you can also check out old wood boat restorers. The floor piece is the one
> that's
> gonna get you. But stick with the mahogany like the plans say.
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:19 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Wood
>
> >
> >
> > I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and now I actually looked
> > at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on places cheaper then
> > AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> > sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in structural strength
> > but how much I wonder. I will most likely just stick with mahogany and
> > be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to glue the fuse together I
> > will forget all about the price and finaly see an airplane taking shape.
> > ( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
> >
> > Thanks
> > ( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
> > Chris
> > Sacramento, CA
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
In a message dated 5/7/00 9:57:00 AM Central Daylight Time, gyachts(at)kans.com
writes:
<< What and when did you find your tubing? I called Friday and all they said
they had was .5" x 1" chromoly. Which would be great for cabane but not
lift struts.
Good luck on the wing. I wish I wasn't so busy I would drive down and
help/watch.
Greg >>
I got the oval tubing at The Yard Store, about 4 or 5 months ago. They get
stuff in all the time, so ya gotta just keep checking. 1/2" X 1" is not
big enough for cabane struts, and a little bit too big for the jury struts.
I have some of the stuff, but I'm looking for something a little smaller for
the jury struts.
Stop in at Benton anytime. We're gonna grill a bunch of burgers this summer
out at Benton!!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello Warren Shoun::Do you happen to know the wall thickness of the
Sky-tec struts? I didn"t see it marked on the Sky tec page you gave us,
and if it was the print was to small to read. I have a a set of alum.
struts with .049 wall. I'm worried I should go with a heavier thickness.
Thank you Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Struts and other questions |
I am fairly new to this list and also a proud owner of a bunch of
Pietenpol parts.
The quick story:
I just purchased and picked up an Aircamper that was built in 1981 by
a guy (Hans Meyer) in MN. According to the FAA registery, the plane
was issued an N number and certified for flight. In 1988 the plane
was unregistered and donated to a local technical college. After some
time (within the last few years) the plane made its way to the Air
National Guard Museum at MSP. The museum was not very interested in
the aircraft since it was not military in nature so they traded it to
the Lake Elmo Chapter of the EAA (#54) for some bomber parts. I
bought it from the chapter as parts. I plan on taking most of the
plane apart, inspecting, repairing, and reassembling it with some
modifications to meet my desires and then flying it again.
It is corvair powered (84hp I think) and has the 3-piece wing design.
Check out the pictures if you like.
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Cockpit.jpeg
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Panel.jpeg
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Prop.jpeg
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Tail1.jpeg
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Wings.jpeg
So here are some questions
1) Does/has anyone used wood in building wing struts?
2) I have 3 ribs in the right wing that need repair - it looks like
something was dropped or hit that part of the wing. What is the best
technique for replacing/repairing broken capstrips?
3) Does anyone have typical V speeds and G-limits for an Aircamper.
Has anyone ever gotten into a spin and pulled out of it in a Piet?
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
By subtracting the inside dimensions from the outside dimensions and dividing
by 2, get wall thickness of .123 to .119, or about 1/8" thick.
Warren
Leon Stefan wrote:
>
> Hello Warren Shoun::Do you happen to know the wall thickness of the
> Sky-tec struts? I didn"t see it marked on the Sky tec page you gave us,
> and if it was the print was to small to read. I have a a set of alum.
> struts with .049 wall. I'm worried I should go with a heavier thickness.
> Thank you Leon S.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Short Fuselage Piet |
| From: | "Sherri Morton" <smorton3(at)bellsouth.net> |
I am building a short Fuselage piet and my plans do not show struts from the forward
upper cabanes fittings to the motor mounts. Is it acceptable to go without
or advantaegous to include?
Paul Morton
678-482-1661
smorton3(at)bellsouth.net
Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
http://webmail.bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Short Fuselage Piet |
If you don't have those, you would have to have
crossed wires between the front and rear vertical
cabane struts. making it difficult to get in and out
of the front hole.
--- Sherri Morton wrote:
> Morton"
>
> I am building a short Fuselage piet and my plans do
> not show struts from the forward upper cabanes
> fittings to the motor mounts. Is it acceptable to go
> without or advantaegous to include?
> Paul Morton
> 678-482-1661
> smorton3(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
> Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
> Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
> http://webmail.bellsouth.net
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Struts and other questions |
I was over at L.E. when they first got that airplane.
How much did you pay them for it? I,m building one
near hudson wi.
del
--- Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> wrote:
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> I am fairly new to this list and also a proud owner
> of a bunch of
> Pietenpol parts.
>
> The quick story:
> I just purchased and picked up an Aircamper that was
> built in 1981 by
> a guy (Hans Meyer) in MN. According to the FAA
> registery, the plane
> was issued an N number and certified for flight. In
> 1988 the plane
> was unregistered and donated to a local technical
> college. After some
> time (within the last few years) the plane made its
> way to the Air
> National Guard Museum at MSP. The museum was not
> very interested in
> the aircraft since it was not military in nature so
> they traded it to
> the Lake Elmo Chapter of the EAA (#54) for some
> bomber parts. I
> bought it from the chapter as parts. I plan on
> taking most of the
> plane apart, inspecting, repairing, and reassembling
> it with some
> modifications to meet my desires and then flying it
> again.
>
> It is corvair powered (84hp I think) and has the
> 3-piece wing design.
> Check out the pictures if you like.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Cockpit.jpeg
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Panel.jpeg
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Prop.jpeg
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Tail1.jpeg
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/gallery/Wings.jpeg
>
>
> So here are some questions
>
> 1) Does/has anyone used wood in building wing
> struts?
>
> 2) I have 3 ribs in the right wing that need repair
> - it looks like
> something was dropped or hit that part of the wing.
> What is the best
> technique for replacing/repairing broken capstrips?
>
> 3) Does anyone have typical V speeds and G-limits
> for an Aircamper.
> Has anyone ever gotten into a spin and pulled out of
> it in a Piet?
>
> Thanks
> Kirk
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Seein as the list is a little light on E-mails, I figured I would let you
know how things are going here at the "Garage Aeroplane Factory".
I now have 9 wing ribs completed along with 2 nightstands that my wife
claims are on the supplementall plans. I can't figure out how they will
fit in the Piet but my wife is letting me store them next to the bed
until I do.
MY WING RIB JIG:
In case any one is thinking about how to build a rib jig give this a
thought. My jig is made up of two 3/8" plywood 70" x 10" pieces glued
(elmers wood glue) together to form a rigid base. I just glued the
pieces together while they laid on the garage floor. On top of this using
3M spray glue I attached the wing rib drawing that I plotted from the
dimensions on the plans. I did not use the full size wing rib drawing
supplied with the plans because it did not match the measurements from
the plans ( advice from a bunch of you). Do not use Elmers glue to glue
the wing rib drawing down. It will cause the paper to stretch, warp and
have wrinkles. I should have known better but on the bright side the
second time I plotted the wing rib it only took me half the time (about
an hour). When laying the paper on the plywood base, tape one end around
the plywood. This way you can pull the pattern tight while it is in the
air and lay it down smooth. With 3M glue you only get one chance. On
top of this I have a sheet of 1/4" clear Plexiglass held down by screws
(as suggested by Steve Eldredge). Using 3/8" Plexiglass I cut out 1/2" x
1/2" blocks then glued (special glue for Plexiglass) the blocks along the
rib outline. I cut out spacers for the spars from this material also.
It takes less block to hold the shape then you think, I have way to many
on my jig but it works. I initially use these non moveable blocks to
hold every thing but have since removed some of them so I could get the
pieces to slide in with out scraping off the glue. The glue will not
stick to the plexiglass and I can pop my wing rib out with out hurting
the jig or rib. ( Cost about 15 buck and a 1/2 day to build including
picking up the materials )
When building the rib I tried using staples to hold the 1/16" plywood
gussets on but I did not like the way it looked after I removed the
staples. Im to cheap to buy a bunch of clamps so here is what I am
doing. I glue the rib together with out the plywood. Let it dry for
about 12 hours then I carefully remove it from the jig. With it out of
the jig, I glue on the plywood on one side of the rib. To hold the
plywood while it is drying I use "Large Binder clips" that I purchased at
the local office supply. They have a 1" capacity and are CHEAP compared
to real clamps ( 5 bucks for 12 binder clips ). They work great with the
T-88 epoxy I am using. I can now produce great looking ribs with no
holes in the ply wood, I don't have to waste and remove staples and my
jig looks as nice as the day I built it.
Having a blast and soon I will be starting on the Fuselage and tail
section.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
Yep, thats what I said.
My 80 yo mother told some of her old flying stories from back during ww11.
Seems she had a job in a defence plant, and while there, had earned enough $
to go in half on a 1937 Taylorcraft.
She was a student pilot who never got her licence beyond cross country.
She related taking off in a snow storm and being hoplessly lost, then
looking down and seeing the airport directaly below her.
Another time she ran out of gas so landed in a field and walked to town to
by more with gas stamps.
Her partner, also a girl, ran out of gas and force landed in a field so
small no one could figure how she got in there.
To get the plane out, several men put a minimum amount of gas aboard, and
the smallest man they could find, reved the engine to full while holding it
back, then let her go .
Plane mane it up, but just barely missed the trees.
Mom was flying past a beach once, loaded with sunbathers along lake Mishigan
and decided to buzz the beach. It was soo much fun she buzzed it again,
watching all the sun bathers run away... until she realized the a/c number
was in block letters under the wing...
Another time she decided to take a pass or two, to buzz the house of a
friend. She came in low and fast, so close she could see looks of horror in
their eyes.
Feeling smug, she later went by their house. They told her that the plane's
wheels had narrowly missed the electric wires.
They were sure she was going to get killed.
God protects drunks and fools.
Mom finally put the iceing on the cake when she went flying one day, taking
along a few peaches for her lunch. She would eat a peach, throw the pit out
the window.
Eat another peach, throw the pit out the window...
Next day the newspaper read, Man in hospital, hit by flying peach pit.
My mom sold the plane, thinking she would buy another. She never did. That
was the end of her flying days.
Some years ago I wrote the FAA for a record of her airplane as a birthday
present. In it was the entire record of her plane. It was lost from the
regestration rolls sometime in the early 1960's.
Registration # was NC19014 I don't suppose anyone out there knows where it
is ?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
try central air parts in staughton, illinois for used parts. I got a set of
cleveland 600x6 with brakes , discs, tires, tubes and bolt on axles for $275 a
year or so ago. they advertise in sport aviation.
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Carl Loar wrote:
>
> Anyone have a suggestion on a good source for 6x600 wheels for a one and a
> half inch axle?
> Carl
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 05/08/00 |
Hi Del,
I paid $1000 for the whole deal. I just started pulling the engine
apart last night and have had the pleasure/heartache of cutting
through the fabric on the wings to inspect the craftsmanship and
condition (I plan on recovering the whole thing anyway).
What stage are you at with yours? I'd like to see it some time. I
believe that there is a flying Aircamper up in Osseoa, but haven't
seen it yet.
Have a good day
Kirk
>From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Struts and other questions
>I was over at L.E. when they first got that airplane.
>How much did you pay them for it? I,m building one
>near hudson wi.
>del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Wheels |
I'm starting to look for a set of spoked wheels for my piet does anyone have
any suggestions on what to use and a good place to start looking. What size
should I use and any particular brand which is a favorite. Is it important to
change the hub. I've been told motorcycle wheels can take a tremenduos amount
of sideload and that the axle would brake before the wheel would. Any thougts
on thisHELP.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Cockpit coamings |
I'm fixing to start cockpit coamings over .025 aluminum cowling. Can't find
armorflex in a smaller diameter than 1 7/8 inches. I can get by with it but
would like to have something a little smaller for better proportion. Would
appreciate any and all suggestions.
DickG
Ft. Myers, FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Wheels |
If you want brakes, the motorcycle hubs can save you a lot of time and the
older wheels have internal mechanicals, in case you think new disk brakes look
a
bit time warped for a 1929 airplane. You may want to consider new stainless
steel spokes. If you do, then you can change out the rim to any size that you
want.
I used two Honda 90 trail bike complete front wheel assemblies, which has
limited tire selection. In retrospect, would probably choose an older Kawasaki
front assembly with the Dunlop F11 series tire and tube, just because they look
a
bit antique.
I looked at the solid steel axle and decided not to change out to a
comparatively thin walled tube axle. If I break this axle, I will have much
bigger problems.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit coamings |
I'm planning to use garden hose, then a layer of leather over top, then
wrapped with leather laceing.
>From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cockpit coamings
>Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:53:41 -0400
>
>
>
>I'm fixing to start cockpit coamings over .025 aluminum cowling. Can't
>find
>armorflex in a smaller diameter than 1 7/8 inches. I can get by with it
>but
>would like to have something a little smaller for better proportion. Would
>appreciate any and all suggestions.
>
>DickG
>Ft. Myers, FL.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol-cockpit coaming |
Just a suggestion but how about going to Home depot and check out 1/2 inch
foam pipe insulation. It would be a lot softer than a garden hose, and it
will compress better
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit coamings |
In a message dated 5/9/00 9:51:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
dickmarg(at)peganet.com writes:
<< I'm fixing to start cockpit coamings over .025 aluminum cowling. Can't
find
armorflex in a smaller diameter than 1 7/8 inches. I can get by with it but
would like to have something a little smaller for better proportion. Would
appreciate any and all suggestions.
DickG
Ft. Myers, FL. >>
I'm at this stage also, and have plans on making tonneau covers for both
pits. I also used .025 6061 material for the cowl. I used epoxy primer,
and painted it red, to match the fuse. I'm using a small diameter hose,
maybe 1/8 ID, slit it along the entire length to slip over the edge, and then
I plan on using a garden hose, slit and installed over top of that. I'm
planning on using the fuzzy part of velcro over the garden hose, stitch it
with leather lace thru holes drilled in the cowling, and attaching the hooks
portion of velcro to the tonneau covers. Allong the leading edge of the
tonneau of the front pit, I'll use a short flap, maybe an inch, to cover the
leading edge of that tonnaue, to keep it from getting air under it an blowing
it off. I've never seen it done this way, so I've gotta just do some R&D. I
hope I can get it to work...it should be a clean looking, and effective
tonneau cover.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing / Fuselage |
I had ment jusy struts. I'll keep checking on the tubing at the yard.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Wheels |
I used Yahama 650 wheels. 19" I split the casing and widened them out to
7" with a inside spacer. Also changed spokes to Harley spokes.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: <Flite407(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Wheels
>
> I'm starting to look for a set of spoked wheels for my piet does anyone
have
> any suggestions on what to use and a good place to start looking. What
size
> should I use and any particular brand which is a favorite. Is it important
to
> change the hub. I've been told motorcycle wheels can take a tremenduos
amount
> of sideload and that the axle would brake before the wheel would. Any
thougts
> on thisHELP.
> Gary
> New Orleans
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/10/00 |
I finally did it! I ran out of room for my 'toys' and projects. To make
room for my rapidly expanding collection of AirBike and Sky Scout parts (to
say nothing of a bit of extra money to spend on them), I have to get rid of
my O200 project engine. It was on my '66 150 until two years ago, when I was
able to buy a low-timer off a wreck. I had plans to rebuild this engine and
sell it, but you know how projects go. Anyway, it is an O200-A, pull start,
with 2200 SCMOH. One cylinder has less than 40 hours on it, and the engine
was running strong when I pulled it. Comes with Slick mags, carb, starter,
generator, and vacuum pump.
This isn't some dusty 'anchor' sitting in the corner of the shop. I've kept
it covered and is clean, as when removed.
Oh, yeah...I'm asking $4200 OBO, and I think I have enough wood laying around
to build a shipping box for it. Of course shipping will be borne by buyer.
E-mail me at Ed0248(at)aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/10/00 |
where are you located?
>From: Ed0248(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/10/00
>Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:07:44 EDT
>
>
>I finally did it! I ran out of room for my 'toys' and projects. To make
>room for my rapidly expanding collection of AirBike and Sky Scout parts (to
>say nothing of a bit of extra money to spend on them), I have to get rid of
>my O200 project engine. It was on my '66 150 until two years ago, when I
>was
>able to buy a low-timer off a wreck. I had plans to rebuild this engine
>and
>sell it, but you know how projects go. Anyway, it is an O200-A, pull
>start,
>with 2200 SCMOH. One cylinder has less than 40 hours on it, and the engine
>was running strong when I pulled it. Comes with Slick mags, carb, starter,
>generator, and vacuum pump.
>
>This isn't some dusty 'anchor' sitting in the corner of the shop. I've
>kept
>it covered and is clean, as when removed.
>
>Oh, yeah...I'm asking $4200 OBO, and I think I have enough wood laying
>around
>to build a shipping box for it. Of course shipping will be borne by buyer.
>
>E-mail me at Ed0248(at)aol.com.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I am in the process of hooking up my rudder and elevator control cables.
The angles are giving me some problems.
The biggest problem is how to run the rudder control cable from the rear
cockpit rudder bar to the rudder horn. Should I run the cable under the
seat, through a pulley, to the horn? Or, take a direct route from the bar
above the seat and maybe install a protective tube as it passes through the
cockpit area.
The cable going from the bellcrank to the upper elevator horn touches the
leading edge of when the elevator is in the neutral position. Changing
the position of the bellcrank doesn't seem to make much differance. I guess
I'll just put a protective cover ion the leading edge.
Any input would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
In a message dated 5/11/00 9:58:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
Dick,
I put a pulley under the back of the seat area, that worked fine for the
rudder. The control horn WILL cause the elevator cable to rub the top
horizontal stab. You should notice that when the elevator is in "level
flight" the cable will not rub. This seem to be a trade mark of the
Pietenpol, as most all that I have seen have some leather on the leading edge
of the stab to protect the fabric.
Scott Dufreche
<< Should I run the cable under the
seat, through a pulley, to the horn? Or, take a direct route from the bar
above the seat and maybe install a protective tube as it passes through the
cockpit area.
The cable going from the bellcrank to the upper elevator horn touches the
leading edge of when the elevator is in the neutral position. Changing
the position of the bellcrank doesn't seem to make much differance. I guess
I'll just put a protective cover ion the leading edge. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com, airsoob(at)lists.kz, Piet_Builder(at)listbot.com
Has anyone mounted a mag on the Soob? This is one subject I havent seen
brought up yet! I have a mag and am thinking about doing this for my ign
system. I am open too suggestions.
Steve
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Richard,
We are planning to run the rudder cables inside teflon tubing under
the seat.
Stabilizer will have a protective strip installed.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Richard Navratil" 05/11 8:32 PM >>>
I am in the process of hooking up my rudder and elevator control cables.
The angles are giving me some problems.
The biggest problem is how to run the rudder control cable from the rear
cockpit rudder bar to the rudder horn. Should I run the cable under the
seat, through a pulley, to the horn? Or, take a direct route from the bar
above the seat and maybe install a protective tube as it passes through the
cockpit area.
The cable going from the bellcrank to the upper elevator horn touches the
leading edge of when the elevator is in the neutral position. Changing
the position of the bellcrank doesn't seem to make much differance. I guess
I'll just put a protective cover ion the leading edge.
Any input would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thanks for the input . One more small item, I am going to have a steerable
tail wheel. Would it be best to have one cable that splits somewhere behind
the cockpit or two independent cables (on each side) directly to the rudder
bars?
Thanks Again
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
Dick,
I used wire nut under the seat to connect two other cables to the rudder
cables. Will need some additional pulleys to change the angle of the cables
as they exit the bottom. Have not finished the the piet yet, so do not know
if this is the best, but have heard of other flying with this setup.
Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
That is one of the reasons that I feel a auto
conversion is superior over an aircraft engine is that
you don't have to deal with that high maintenance,
expensive, obsolete antique magneto. just look at what
year auto's quit using it.
--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> vistin(at)juno.com
>
> Has anyone mounted a mag on the Soob? This is one
> subject I havent seen
> brought up yet! I have a mag and am thinking about
> doing this for my ign
> system. I am open too suggestions.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>
> GN-1--<(next project).
>
> IHA #6
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Hey Dick.
I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this is the one
with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder? Therefore the
angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant. Looks to
me like there are three alternatives.
1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the rudder
cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere with straight
line cable routing).
2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose (most info
says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees cable
deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I think the
structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in the aft
fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar may put a
fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could adjust the
fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he knows....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
In a message dated 5/12/00 7:20:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
<< Thanks for the input . One more small item, I am going to have a
steerable
tail wheel. Would it be best to have one cable that splits somewhere behind
the cockpit or two independent cables (on each side) directly to the rudder
bars?
Thanks Again
Dick Navratil
>>
A tail wheel will also require the use of brakes. Brakes require additional
weight, complexity, lower payload, and you'll never hear anyone say "Waddya
mean, ya ain't got no brakes ??????
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Some time back, a note in the BAPNews spoke of attaching the tail wheel
cables 4 inches out from the pivot bolt of the rudder bar. It said if
you connect the cables to the rudder cables, or end of the ruder bar you
get too much tail wheel movement too soon. I'm not there yet, but plan
to weld tabs on my rudder bar to test it. Just something to think about.
Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
Chuck:
So you use a tail skid instead?? Wondering minds want too kno!
Steve
>
> In a message dated 5/12/00 7:20:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
> horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
>
> << Thanks for the input . One more small item, I am going to have
> a
> steerable
> tail wheel. Would it be best to have one cable that splits
> somewhere behind
> the cockpit or two independent cables (on each side) directly to
> the rudder
> bars?
> Thanks Again
> Dick Navratil
> >>
>
> A tail wheel will also require the use of brakes. Brakes require
> additional
> weight, complexity, lower payload, and you'll never hear anyone say
> "Waddya
> mean, ya ain't got no brakes ??????
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
When was the last time your car crashed because the battery went dead when
you were driving?
The battery in my Tripacer has gone dead twice. I was very glad it used old
tech Mags. Landing in
the Oregon coast range is no fun.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: del magsam [mailto:farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mount mag.
That is one of the reasons that I feel a auto
conversion is superior over an aircraft engine is that
you don't have to deal with that high maintenance,
expensive, obsolete antique magneto. just look at what
year auto's quit using it.
--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> vistin(at)juno.com
>
> Has anyone mounted a mag on the Soob? This is one
> subject I havent seen
> brought up yet! I have a mag and am thinking about
> doing this for my ign
> system. I am open too suggestions.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>
> GN-1--<(next project).
>
> IHA #6
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
I, too, was planning to go the auto conversion route after seeing 4
successful Subaru conversions. However, in the last 2 years, all but one
have suffered from engine failures resulting from parts breaking in the
engine. If you think that a Soob conversion is cheaper, consider this
Stratus conversion:
Before:
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan/wassom/wassom.html>
After:
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan/oops.JPG>
A certified engine would probably have been cheaper inthe long run.
In addition, an NSI conversion in one of our club member's CH-601 HDS
snapped a pushrod resulting in a successful off-field landing on a
road. The last one is in a Pelican and the owner has only been able to put
about 10 hrs on it in the last two years due to oil cooling and pressure
problems resulting in a couple of forced landings on the field.
Of all the certified planes and owners I know of, only one has had a
catastrophic failure. That was on a Cessna 180 with 2 hours SMOH. The conn
rod/wrist pin connection failed due to a plugged oil galley (left over
"stuff" from O/H). The connection seized and snapped. The conn rod stub
first pushed the piston into the top of the cylinder, unseating it, and
then poked out through the bottom of the case. That engine still produced
enough power to allow the pilot to land and taxi back to shore.
I'm not opposed to the development and use of aouto engines in aircraft,
in fact, it's quite the opposite. There have been a lot of successes with
VW's, Corvair and RX-7 engines. It's just important to have ALL the
facts. I'm sure there are a lot of successful Soob installations, but my
personal experience has bee that they have a 75% failure rate.
BTW, Steve, I have 8 Slick mags, still new that I bought as surplus a
couple of years ago. They won't fit an A/C as the mounting ring is too
large (or small, I can't remember). THe guts are the same as the A/C and
they were used on military vehicles. If you want a couple for
experimentation, I only paid about $20 USD each for them and I'll sell
them at the same price, plus shipping.
Ken.
On Fri, 12 May 2000, del magsam wrote:
>
> That is one of the reasons that I feel a auto
> conversion is superior over an aircraft engine is that
> you don't have to deal with that high maintenance,
> expensive, obsolete antique magneto. just look at what
> year auto's quit using it.
>
> --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > vistin(at)juno.com
> >
> > Has anyone mounted a mag on the Soob? This is one
> > subject I havent seen
> > brought up yet! I have a mag and am thinking about
> > doing this for my ign
> > system. I am open too suggestions.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
> >
> > GN-1--<(next project).
> >
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'tailwind-list(at)matronics.com'" ,
"Bearhawk Discussion List (E-mail)"
| Subject: | Just a short story.... |
On the lighter side....
Most of you know that I fly a pietenpol that I built at home. My children
are just getting old enough to want to go flying with me and Saturday, my
girls, Allyse (7), Emily (6) and Britney (4), begged me to take them flying.
(took lots of arm twisting :)) Well, they each got a flight around the
patch twice, beaming with delight, pony tails streaming back from the front
cockpit. As they helped push the piet back into the hanger with me Emily
noticed the shiny 172 in the open hanger next to ours and said,
"Daddy look, how come that airplane has the little wheel in the front!"
I was so pleased.
Steve E.
Piet Pilot
Bearhawk and Tailwind a' building.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a short story.... |
"the little wheel in front . . "
Just tell her that's a training wheel.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
Ken,
I'd be happy to take 2 of those mags if they're available.
Regards,
Mike Sublett
>From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mount mag.
>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:16:50 -0600 (MDT)
>
>
>I, too, was planning to go the auto conversion route after seeing 4
>successful Subaru conversions. However, in the last 2 years, all but one
>have suffered from engine failures resulting from parts breaking in the
>engine. If you think that a Soob conversion is cheaper, consider this
>Stratus conversion:
>
>Before:
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan/wassom/wassom.html>
>
>After:
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan/oops.JPG>
>
>A certified engine would probably have been cheaper inthe long run.
>
>In addition, an NSI conversion in one of our club member's CH-601 HDS
>snapped a pushrod resulting in a successful off-field landing on a
>road. The last one is in a Pelican and the owner has only been able to put
>about 10 hrs on it in the last two years due to oil cooling and pressure
>problems resulting in a couple of forced landings on the field.
>
>Of all the certified planes and owners I know of, only one has had a
>catastrophic failure. That was on a Cessna 180 with 2 hours SMOH. The conn
>rod/wrist pin connection failed due to a plugged oil galley (left over
>"stuff" from O/H). The connection seized and snapped. The conn rod stub
>first pushed the piston into the top of the cylinder, unseating it, and
>then poked out through the bottom of the case. That engine still produced
>enough power to allow the pilot to land and taxi back to shore.
>
>I'm not opposed to the development and use of aouto engines in aircraft,
>in fact, it's quite the opposite. There have been a lot of successes with
>VW's, Corvair and RX-7 engines. It's just important to have ALL the
>facts. I'm sure there are a lot of successful Soob installations, but my
>personal experience has bee that they have a 75% failure rate.
>
>BTW, Steve, I have 8 Slick mags, still new that I bought as surplus a
>couple of years ago. They won't fit an A/C as the mounting ring is too
>large (or small, I can't remember). THe guts are the same as the A/C and
>they were used on military vehicles. If you want a couple for
>experimentation, I only paid about $20 USD each for them and I'll sell
>them at the same price, plus shipping.
>
>Ken.
>
>On Fri, 12 May 2000, del magsam wrote:
>
>
> >
> > That is one of the reasons that I feel a auto
> > conversion is superior over an aircraft engine is that
> > you don't have to deal with that high maintenance,
> > expensive, obsolete antique magneto. just look at what
> > year auto's quit using it.
> >
> > --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > > vistin(at)juno.com
> > >
> > > Has anyone mounted a mag on the Soob? This is one
> > > subject I havent seen
> > > brought up yet! I have a mag and am thinking about
> > > doing this for my ign
> > > system. I am open too suggestions.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
> > >
> > > GN-1--<(next project).
> > >
> > > IHA #6
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > through
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > > Matronics!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a short story.... |
Great Steve, That is what it is all about. Did you explain that the little
wheel is on the proper end of a Piet? Is the Bearhawk like a Super Cub?
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Discussion List (E-mail)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Just a short story....
>
>
> On the lighter side....
>
> Most of you know that I fly a pietenpol that I built at home. My
children
> are just getting old enough to want to go flying with me and Saturday, my
> girls, Allyse (7), Emily (6) and Britney (4), begged me to take them
flying.
> (took lots of arm twisting :)) Well, they each got a flight around the
> patch twice, beaming with delight, pony tails streaming back from the
front
> cockpit. As they helped push the piet back into the hanger with me Emily
> noticed the shiny 172 in the open hanger next to ours and said,
>
> "Daddy look, how come that airplane has the little wheel in the front!"
>
> I was so pleased.
>
> Steve E.
> Piet Pilot
> Bearhawk and Tailwind a' building.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Alright, does anyone have a good (ie inexpensive) source for A/C bolts,
nuts, washers and other hardware? I priced up an order to Wicks last night
and it came in at almost $200! Granted, it does include all those big
engine and LG mounting bolts. Aircraft Spruce was about the same.
Thanks,
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | EAA AirVenture 2000 get together |
This is for the Pietenpol people, the 'Vairheads, and any other assorted
and sundry persons who are interested in the same sort of things -
I just received the annual letter from Roger Gomol (a Vintage Aircraft
director and chair of the Type Club Tent at the EAA Oshkosh extravaganza
and all-around nice guy) concerning reservation for space for the Buckeye
Pietenpol group to have a registration and information table in the Vintage
Aircraft Association Type Club tent.
Two years ago I volunteered to do this, set up the table with backdrops,
typical plans, photos, etc. and spent many hours there and the impact was
just about nil. Met some nice people, but mostly tire kickers. So I did
not set up a Piet table at the '99 Oshkosh convention.
As of the first of January of 2000, the "Buckeye Pietenpol Association"
became dormant. Not much has been heard from Grant MacLaren, the BPA
Newsletter editor who had done such a great job for so many years. He has
not responded to inquiries, including mine. Several people volunteered to
assume the task as editor, but Grant never did pass the torch.
It appears that with the changing technology, which surely includes the
"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" and "corvaircraft(at)usm.edu" and the "Q" and
"KR" people on the internet, the information dissemination is reasonably
covered - and almost instantaneously! And now we even have Pat's Corvair
"FAQ" sheet started. With our ability to send color photos across the
Web, we are a long jump ahead of the idea of publishing a paper newsletter
every three months. Thank you to our webmasters!
Last year a number of us met at Hartford WI for supper the night before the
en mass flight to Oshkosh, and it was a great little party. But at Oshkosh
during AirVenture, there was not much opportunity for us to meet each
other. Of course, when the weekend came, some of us schlepped on over to
Brodhead and had a great time there.
Last year at the Piet flyin at Oshkosh, several people later said that they
wished we had planned a dinner away from the airport. During the
AirVenture, a lot of groups have such dinners, and perhaps we should
too. Getting to the chosen restaurant would be no problem for those who
are camping, since a number of others will have cars and we can carpool. I
suggest that we meet in a restaurant where we can have a room to ourselves
(raucous bunch!), order what each wants off a menu (separate bills), have a
short program, and adjourn to the bar.
AirVenture 2000 opens on Wednesday, July 26 and concludes the following
Tuesday, August1.
The Pietenpol Flyin at Brodhead takes place on the weekend right in the
middle of AirVenture 2000 - starts Friday, July 28, the big day is
Saturday, and on Sunday noon, July 30th, most people are gone from
Brodhead. Brodhead is sacred time, and we will not violate that.
So what nights are open for an Oshkosh dinner? Experience tells me that
many people are on the way home on Monday and Tuesday, the last two
days. So it would look like either Wednesday or Thursday night the 26th or
27th, or Sunday night, the 30th. I suggest Sunday night, July 30th.
During that week in Oshkosh, the restaurants are full, so advance
reservations for the room are necessary. Where to sign up for your
individual reservations? We have several natural meeting places - the
Pietenpol hangar at Pioneer Airport makes sense. Another touchstone is
Mick Myal's "Contact!" magazine booth for automobile engine conversions of
all kinds. At Sun'n'Fun it was natural for Piet types to see each other at
the woodworking tent. And of course, at WW's Corvair forum. Any suggestions?
There will be no chairman and no committee. There has to be a contact
person, and I can do that - gathering your suggestions, finding the
restaurant facility, and gathering the reservations. If we have 10 people,
that's great. If we have more, that's even better!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
I'm getting ready to order my spars the original plans call for 1"x4 3/4"and
on the 3 piece wing it calls for 3/4"x 4 3/4" which is preferred and has
anyone made them of built up ply. Looking for some feedback on which is OK
and which is not OK. By the way I'm building the 3 piece wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ken,
Try Dillsburg Aeroplane Works. They have tubing, hardware, etc. All the
nitty gritty to build a plane.
they will probably beat anyone on hardware and 4130.
Call them for their price list.
717-432-4589 (PA.)
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bolts
>
>Alright, does anyone have a good (ie inexpensive) source for A/C bolts,
>nuts, washers and other hardware? I priced up an order to Wicks last night
>and it came in at almost $200! Granted, it does include all those big
>engine and LG mounting bolts. Aircraft Spruce was about the same.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Zenith Carb Linkage |
Hi All!
I'm Larry Prange from Kingston, Washington (across Puget Sound from
Seattle). For the last couple years I have been building an 'A' powered Air
Camper. I have the fuselage, tail assembly, wing ribs, landing gear
(spokes) and gauges/controls/linkage done. The Ford engine is mounted. In
the last month I have gotten the engine running. What a great sound to
hear, after all of that work . . . Everything looks like it is working as
expected. (Probably because I am sticking to the plans.)
Since I have never seen a Piet 'In the Flesh', I need a bit of advice on the
controls for the Zenith Carb. I have installed regular, 'push/pull' cable
linkage for the throttle and the choke. But, I'm not sure what to do about
the gas mixture control (formerly controlled by twisting the choke control
knob on the donor car). Do most folks attach a multi-turn knob control of
some kind? If so, what's the best way to do it? Or is it more common to
set the mixture in an 'average' position and lock it that way? If that's
the case, how do I find a good 'average' position?
Also, are any of you in the Seattle area? If you are, maybe we could get
together. It would be fun to check out each other's projects/planes, and
'swap lies and swat flies'.
Thanks for the help!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA AirVenture 2000 get together |
Hi Doc-- It's too bad that this letter of yours couldn't be sent to all those
Pietenpolers who haven't yet submitted themselves to the "information
superhighway" because you've just done a great job of replacing the BPA newsletter
by summarizing the past , present and future events we Piet-heads need to be aware
of. I'll be watching to see where the dinner gathering will be held.
Once again Doc, great job in your summerization-----yu da man!!!
regards
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
Don Mosher wrote:
>
> This is for the Pietenpol people, the 'Vairheads, and any other assorted
> and sundry persons who are interested in the same sort of things -
>
> I just received the annual letter from Roger Gomol (a Vintage Aircraft
> director and chair of the Type Club Tent at the EAA Oshkosh extravaganza
> and all-around nice guy) concerning reservation for space for the Buckeye
> Pietenpol group to have a registration and information table in the Vintage
> Aircraft Association Type Club tent.
>
> Two years ago I volunteered to do this, set up the table with backdrops,
> typical plans, photos, etc. and spent many hours there and the impact was
> just about nil. Met some nice people, but mostly tire kickers. So I did
> not set up a Piet table at the '99 Oshkosh convention.
>
> As of the first of January of 2000, the "Buckeye Pietenpol Association"
> became dormant. Not much has been heard from Grant MacLaren, the BPA
> Newsletter editor who had done such a great job for so many years. He has
> not responded to inquiries, including mine. Several people volunteered to
> assume the task as editor, but Grant never did pass the torch.
>
> It appears that with the changing technology, which surely includes the
> "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" and "corvaircraft(at)usm.edu" and the "Q" and
> "KR" people on the internet, the information dissemination is reasonably
> covered - and almost instantaneously! And now we even have Pat's Corvair
> "FAQ" sheet started. With our ability to send color photos across the
> Web, we are a long jump ahead of the idea of publishing a paper newsletter
> every three months. Thank you to our webmasters!
>
> Last year a number of us met at Hartford WI for supper the night before the
> en mass flight to Oshkosh, and it was a great little party. But at Oshkosh
> during AirVenture, there was not much opportunity for us to meet each
> other. Of course, when the weekend came, some of us schlepped on over to
> Brodhead and had a great time there.
>
> Last year at the Piet flyin at Oshkosh, several people later said that they
> wished we had planned a dinner away from the airport. During the
> AirVenture, a lot of groups have such dinners, and perhaps we should
> too. Getting to the chosen restaurant would be no problem for those who
> are camping, since a number of others will have cars and we can carpool. I
> suggest that we meet in a restaurant where we can have a room to ourselves
> (raucous bunch!), order what each wants off a menu (separate bills), have a
> short program, and adjourn to the bar.
>
> AirVenture 2000 opens on Wednesday, July 26 and concludes the following
> Tuesday, August1.
>
> The Pietenpol Flyin at Brodhead takes place on the weekend right in the
> middle of AirVenture 2000 - starts Friday, July 28, the big day is
> Saturday, and on Sunday noon, July 30th, most people are gone from
> Brodhead. Brodhead is sacred time, and we will not violate that.
>
> So what nights are open for an Oshkosh dinner? Experience tells me that
> many people are on the way home on Monday and Tuesday, the last two
> days. So it would look like either Wednesday or Thursday night the 26th or
> 27th, or Sunday night, the 30th. I suggest Sunday night, July 30th.
>
> During that week in Oshkosh, the restaurants are full, so advance
> reservations for the room are necessary. Where to sign up for your
> individual reservations? We have several natural meeting places - the
> Pietenpol hangar at Pioneer Airport makes sense. Another touchstone is
> Mick Myal's "Contact!" magazine booth for automobile engine conversions of
> all kinds. At Sun'n'Fun it was natural for Piet types to see each other at
> the woodworking tent. And of course, at WW's Corvair forum. Any suggestions?
>
> There will be no chairman and no committee. There has to be a contact
> person, and I can do that - gathering your suggestions, finding the
> restaurant facility, and gathering the reservations. If we have 10 people,
> that's great. If we have more, that's even better!
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Replacing Newsletter |
One very important resource that is missing is the archive of
newsletters. I hope that Grant eventually surfaces. If he has soft
copies of the newsletter they could be posted for WEB access.
Alternately, he may resume selling copies, or pass them along for
someone to make them available.
It would be good if folks out there who have a complete set of
newsletters would make them available for copying.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
during the discussions on this subject before, I would
say that nearly all of the builders felt that 3/4 is
strong enough because of the fact that even the high
performance aerobatic planes use that size.
--- Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
> Flite407(at)aol.com
>
> I'm getting ready to order my spars the original
> plans call for 1"x4 3/4"and
> on the 3 piece wing it calls for 3/4"x 4 3/4" which
> is preferred and has
> anyone made them of built up ply. Looking for some
> feedback on which is OK
> and which is not OK. By the way I'm building the 3
> piece wing.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
Del
Apprieciate the feedback on the spar question its so great to be able to have
a question and have it answered for you in such a short time.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
>
>> I'm getting ready to order my spars the original
>> plans call for 1"x4 3/4"and
>> on the 3 piece wing it calls for 3/4"x 4 3/4" which
>> is preferred
3/4 x 3/4 works great. Easier than routing a one inch spar. If you plan on
using uprights instead of gussets on the ribs ( which show one inch space )
a 1/4 inch shim on the back face of the spar at each rib station will work.
That is how I did it.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Powerplant |
I'm looking at the possibility of putting an EA81 Subaru motor up front
somewhere between 70 & 90 HP. My question is, is this going to be to much
power for my peit or will it be alright, I don't want to rip the wings off.
Has anybody used one before and if so how did it work out. Thanks for your
help
Gary New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
3/4 X 4 3/4 is fine.
I laminated mine and they are working well.
There is a real trick to cutting the 10 or 12 to one
slope and have a smooth finish from the saw.
I'll tell about it if anybody cares.
JimV.
--- Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
> Flite407(at)aol.com
>
> Del
> Apprieciate the feedback on the spar question its so
> great to be able to have
> a question and have it answered for you in such a
> short time.
> Gary
> New Orleans
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Powerplant |
Hey Gary,
Another Gary here! You should be okay with that HP. There are folks on the
list who are running O-200 Continentals! I plan on at least a C85 myself.
Power is Goooooood!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike sublett" <mikesublett(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
I'd care to hear any trick or technique that would make this scarf work out.
Thanks.
>From: dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol spars
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>3/4 X 4 3/4 is fine.
>I laminated mine and they are working well.
>There is a real trick to cutting the 10 or 12 to one
>slope and have a smooth finish from the saw.
>I'll tell about it if anybody cares.
>
>JimV.
>
>
>--- Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
> > Flite407(at)aol.com
> >
> > Del
> > Apprieciate the feedback on the spar question its so
> > great to be able to have
> > a question and have it answered for you in such a
> > short time.
> > Gary
> > New Orleans
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
Hello again,
Just got off the phone with Aircraft Spruce regarding electronic / digital
tachs. A/S bought Micro Instruments and handles their products. I also
talked to UMA and Horizon company reps. They ALL say I need an electrical
source to supply power to the tach head. Although the engine RPM reading
can be done either off the engine or magnetos, the head must have an
electrical power source. Only one company, Westach says their aircraft unit
has two wires.....one to the mag the other to the ground.
NO electrical supply is required to run the tach head.
I know Micro has a unit that has an eight year battery with its LED digital
system, but A/S recommended that I stay away from it.
So, it looks like I will be buying a Westach tachometer. I have never had a
Westach product in my plane, but they tell me they have been in business for
over 50 years.
The GN-1 has an A-80 Cont. and no electrical system. The electronic tach is
to give me a more accurate reading of what the engine is doing versus the
old mechanical ones currently in the plane. I have used a handheld digital
tach and found the mechanical tachs are off as much as 500-600 RPM.
Maybe someone knows of another tach source or some way to create the
electrical power needed to use the other tachs....Horizon or UMA.
I had no idea buying a tach could be so confusing.
Mike
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
Dear Jim V
I'd like to hear more about the lamination process for the spars, You can
email me with it if you don't want to tie up the list line
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B and V Dearinger" <dearinge(at)iocc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Westach Tachs |
I have used a westach on a corvair powered plane that workeds fine.Small
dial made fine tuning rpm a little more difficult than the bid ones but was
useable.I put a toggle switch in the line from the ignition in case tach
shorted out so it could be turned off.Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael King <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Westach Tachs
>
>Hello again,
>
>Just got off the phone with Aircraft Spruce regarding electronic / digital
>tachs. A/S bought Micro Instruments and handles their products. I also
>talked to UMA and Horizon company reps. They ALL say I need an electrical
>source to supply power to the tach head. Although the engine RPM reading
>can be done either off the engine or magnetos, the head must have an
>electrical power source. Only one company, Westach says their aircraft
unit
>has two wires.....one to the mag the other to the ground.
>NO electrical supply is required to run the tach head.
>
>I know Micro has a unit that has an eight year battery with its LED digital
>system, but A/S recommended that I stay away from it.
>
>So, it looks like I will be buying a Westach tachometer. I have never had
a
>Westach product in my plane, but they tell me they have been in business
for
>over 50 years.
>
>The GN-1 has an A-80 Cont. and no electrical system. The electronic tach
is
>to give me a more accurate reading of what the engine is doing versus the
>old mechanical ones currently in the plane. I have used a handheld digital
>tach and found the mechanical tachs are off as much as 500-600 RPM.
>
>Maybe someone knows of another tach source or some way to create the
>electrical power needed to use the other tachs....Horizon or UMA.
>
>I had no idea buying a tach could be so confusing.
>
>Mike
>Dallas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Spar splices may also be made using a hand held router. Every thing is neat,
quick, and accurate, and the second scarf is exactly the same as the first
one.
Basicly the fixture is two parallel pieces of wood 1x6x24" with a 6" web
between them that is attached at a 1:10 or 1:12 slope. The spar blank is
positioned on the fixture with wood spacers to hold it away from the
parallel sides and held in place with C-clamps at a suitable distance back
to clear the router base plate. Use a thin shim of wood under the C-clamps
to avoid marking the spar.
Make a base plate of 1/4" plexiglas (lexan, ect.) as wide as the base plate
and long enough to span the two parallel pieces when the router is over to
one side or other of the fixture.
Set the router bit to a depth of 1" and lightly cut a mark on the sloped
web,
use this mark to position the spar blank for scarfing.
Then reposition the router to take 1/8" depth of cuts and finish up with a
1/16"
final cut.
Rodger Childs
One piece wing Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Plywood |
Reply to ...
> I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and now I actually looked
> > at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on places cheaper then
> > AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> > sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in structural strength
> > but how much I wonder. I will most likely just stick with mahogany and
> > be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to glue the fuse together I
> > will forget all about the price and finaly see an airplane taking shape.
> > ( that is untill the credit card bill come
I ordered marine plywood, Mahogony, from local lumber yard (Mead Clark here
in Santa Rosa). Got 2 sheets of 4mm for the fuselage sides, and 2 sheets of
6mm for the fuselage floor, panels,etc. Total cost was $192.70, no shipping
charge and it took 1 day to get it. I ordered it Wednesday morning at 10AM
and they called to have me pick it up at 11:30AM on Thursday. It is very good
quality.
Thinking about it compared to quality of plyboard (as BHP called it), this is
probably much higher quality than he had available in 1928/1933.
Cheers,
Jim Boyer
9 Sequoia Circle
Santa Rosa, CA
95401
707-544-5594
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Plywood |
As another option, take a look at
http://www.aitwood.com
and look at these items
european birch plywood
finland birch plywood
ultra thin plywood
australian hoop pine (for leading edge use)
These guys are an easy drive for me, and their stuff is beautiful. They are
quite familiar with these products being used in airplanes (at least the
warehouse guy is) and they will send it UPS.
Cheers
Warren
JamesJboyer(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Reply to ...
> > I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail and now I actually looked
> > > at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions on places cheaper then
> > > AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> > > sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less in structural strength
> > > but how much I wonder. I will most likely just stick with mahogany and
> > > be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to glue the fuse together I
> > > will forget all about the price and finaly see an airplane taking shape.
> > > ( that is untill the credit card bill come
>
> I ordered marine plywood, Mahogony, from local lumber yard (Mead Clark here
> in Santa Rosa). Got 2 sheets of 4mm for the fuselage sides, and 2 sheets of
> 6mm for the fuselage floor, panels,etc. Total cost was $192.70, no shipping
> charge and it took 1 day to get it. I ordered it Wednesday morning at 10AM
> and they called to have me pick it up at 11:30AM on Thursday. It is very good
> quality.
>
> Thinking about it compared to quality of plyboard (as BHP called it), this is
> probably much higher quality than he had available in 1928/1933.
>
> Cheers,
> Jim Boyer
> 9 Sequoia Circle
> Santa Rosa, CA
> 95401
> 707-544-5594
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Mike King had problems with a mechanical tach & wants to switch to an
electronic tach.
Maybe there is something wrong with his tach. Why not try another mech tach
before buying an electronic tach.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Westach Tachs |
just a thought to confuse you all the further. what
would happen if the tach shorts out would that short
out the mag also(if its powered from the magneto)
--- Michael King wrote:
>
>
> Hello again,
>
> Just got off the phone with Aircraft Spruce
> regarding electronic / digital
> tachs. A/S bought Micro Instruments and handles
> their products. I also
> talked to UMA and Horizon company reps. They ALL
> say I need an electrical
> source to supply power to the tach head. Although
> the engine RPM reading
> can be done either off the engine or magnetos, the
> head must have an
> electrical power source. Only one company, Westach
> says their aircraft unit
> has two wires.....one to the mag the other to the
> ground.
> NO electrical supply is required to run the tach
> head.
>
> I know Micro has a unit that has an eight year
> battery with its LED digital
> system, but A/S recommended that I stay away from
> it.
>
> So, it looks like I will be buying a Westach
> tachometer. I have never had a
> Westach product in my plane, but they tell me they
> have been in business for
> over 50 years.
>
> The GN-1 has an A-80 Cont. and no electrical system.
> The electronic tach is
> to give me a more accurate reading of what the
> engine is doing versus the
> old mechanical ones currently in the plane. I have
> used a handheld digital
> tach and found the mechanical tachs are off as much
> as 500-600 RPM.
>
> Maybe someone knows of another tach source or some
> way to create the
> electrical power needed to use the other
> tachs....Horizon or UMA.
>
> I had no idea buying a tach could be so confusing.
>
> Mike
> Dallas
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Mike,
A few years back, had my mechanical tach checked due to what seemed like a
power
overrun on my little 65 hp. Continental Piper Vagabond...{;~).
The tach was reading more than 500 rpm too high a the upper end, so when I
thought I
was cruising at 2250, it was really only about 1800-1900.
Ended up switching out several NEW tachs from AS&S, none of which were closer
than
about 200 rpm when compared to the digital prop measurement. Took the best one
and
calibrated the dial with fingernail polish so I knew what it was actually reading.
Haven't had much faith in the mechanical types since. Was able to fly up at the
blinding
speeds that the Vagabond was noted for though.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Leopold" <frgtdog(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Here is a good site for info on cutting scarf joints. I used this method so
I know it works. The key is to have a very sharp block plane.
go to
www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/scarph_bevels.html
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchman" <mikehi(at)molalla.net> |
Rodger,
I must be slow, but I can't visualize what you are describing. This method
of spar splicing using a router obviously has merit, but for some reason, I
am confused.
Would it be possible to take a picture of the fixture and setup and scan it
into a computer file and send it as an attachment to email? Or perhaps make
a crude sketch and do the same thing to get it on the computer?
Speaking only for myself, I'd certainly learn something of benefit and would
probably use it on my project. Perhaps others feel the same way.
Thanks Very Much,
Mike
mikehi(at)molalla.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodger &
Betty Childs
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Splices
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Spar splices may also be made using a hand held router. Every thing is neat,
quick, and accurate, and the second scarf is exactly the same as the first
one.
Basicly the fixture is two parallel pieces of wood 1x6x24" with a 6" web
between them that is attached at a 1:10 or 1:12 slope. The spar blank is
positioned on the fixture with wood spacers to hold it away from the
parallel sides and held in place with C-clamps at a suitable distance back
to clear the router base plate. Use a thin shim of wood under the C-clamps
to avoid marking the spar.
Make a base plate of 1/4" plexiglas (lexan, ect.) as wide as the base plate
and long enough to span the two parallel pieces when the router is over to
one side or other of the fixture.
Set the router bit to a depth of 1" and lightly cut a mark on the sloped
web,
use this mark to position the spar blank for scarfing.
Then reposition the router to take 1/8" depth of cuts and finish up with a
1/16"
final cut.
Rodger Childs
One piece wing Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
Has anyone built a set of box spars (three piece wing) for there Piet? I
am thinking bout doing this and could use some feedback.
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Santana" <aircamper(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Westach Tachs |
Westach built me a custom tach for my "A" powered piet.
31/8" 0 to 2300 rpm calibration and it only requires the mag to power it.
Very nice people to deal with and they deal direct. Price was resonable
around 125.00 in 1997.
Joe Santana 444MH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
I asked the same question about plywood spars a few months ago and after
looking into the stress and loading issues decided it's not such a good
idea. I also checked into a laminated beam with scarfed joints, which I
have decided on. Five plys of 1x1 with stagered joints for a one piece
wing. This required heavy discussions with Bert Connely over beer and wings,
thanks again Bert.
Dick Navratil ----- Original Message -----
From: <Flite407(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol spars
>
> I'm getting ready to order my spars the original plans call for 1"x4
3/4"and
> on the 3 piece wing it calls for 3/4"x 4 3/4" which is preferred and has
> anyone made them of built up ply. Looking for some feedback on which is OK
> and which is not OK. By the way I'm building the 3 piece wing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Powerplant |
the soob has been used many times on the piet and 125
hp engines have been fitted more than a few times. and
so the only way your going to rip your wings off is to
make them out of cardboard or toothpicks.
--- Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
> Flite407(at)aol.com
>
> I'm looking at the possibility of putting an EA81
> Subaru motor up front
> somewhere between 70 & 90 HP. My question is, is
> this going to be to much
> power for my peit or will it be alright, I don't
> want to rip the wings off.
> Has anybody used one before and if so how did it
> work out. Thanks for your
> help
> Gary New Orleans
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol spars |
Yep, that is what Mr. Pietenpol said to do, and what
he did.
The trick is to get a smooth finish on the scarf cut.
There is an easy way to do that if you know how with a
common table saw.
I'm going to tell about it later.
JimV.
--- Richard Navratil wrote:
> Navratil"
>
> I asked the same question about plywood spars a few
> months ago and after
> looking into the stress and loading issues decided
> it's not such a good
> idea. I also checked into a laminated beam with
> scarfed joints, which I
> have decided on. Five plys of 1x1 with stagered
> joints for a one piece
> wing. This required heavy discussions with Bert
> Connely over beer and wings,
> thanks again Bert.
> Dick Navratil ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Flite407(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 1:22 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol spars
>
>
> Flite407(at)aol.com
> >
> > I'm getting ready to order my spars the original
> plans call for 1"x4
> 3/4"and
> > on the 3 piece wing it calls for 3/4"x 4 3/4"
> which is preferred and has
> > anyone made them of built up ply. Looking for some
> feedback on which is OK
> > and which is not OK. By the way I'm building the 3
> piece wing.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
It's been a long winter, but Im back out in the shop. Got my seats and
turtle deck nearly done. My Model-A is nearly done too.
AirCamper.org has a new discussion forum. Please feel free to use it to
your heart's content to discuss anything and everything piet related.
Would be a good place to ramble on and on, where it would not be
appropriate for this list. http://www.aircamper.org
Keep building!
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My Piet project:
http://www.AirCamper.org/users/rdecosta
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol motor shippment |
I might have motor for my piet, however the motor is in Or. and I'm in La.
does anybody have any suggestions on the cheapest way to ship it without it
be the most expensive motor in the world. Any and all suggestions would be
greatly appreciated
Gary
New Orleans
PS time is not a factor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol motor shippment |
Ground truck will probably be cheapest...providing you get the best
classification. I did this a couple of years ago on an old land rover engine
from indiana to california. There is a classification for "automotive parts"
and one for "automotive engines". One is considerably cheaper than the
other....I'm sorry that I don't remember which. It may pay you to investigate
any other applicable classification.
Cheers,
Warren
Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I might have motor for my piet, however the motor is in Or. and I'm in La.
> does anybody have any suggestions on the cheapest way to ship it without it
> be the most expensive motor in the world. Any and all suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated
> Gary
> New Orleans
> PS time is not a factor
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol motor shippment |
If you can pick up the motor at the "cross-dock" freight terminal in your
area, it will also save you quite a bit. In my case, unloading the motor at
the terminal, moving it "cross-dock" to a smaller truck and making local
delivery was almost as much as the cross-country costs.
Cheers,
Warren
Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I might have motor for my piet, however the motor is in Or. and I'm in La.
> does anybody have any suggestions on the cheapest way to ship it without it
> be the most expensive motor in the world. Any and all suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated
> Gary
> New Orleans
> PS time is not a factor
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Windshield Framing Material |
Planning to start fabricating Stearman type windshields. Need
recommendations for aluminum type and thickness. Any advice is appreciated.
DickG
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
Michael,
Ah, the limitations of my budget, I don't have a scanner yet. But I could
send
you some sketches by snail mail if you like. I was able to take the fixture
from
an idea to a usable part in about an hour and a half. The scarf for my spars
were made to a 10:1 slope.
Imagine an " H ". This is what the fixture looks like when viewed on end.
Now stretch out the two verticle sides so that the center web is much
longer. Sort of, no, just like a piece of structural steel "H" beam only
made of wood instead and 24 inches long.
Now rotate the " H " 90 degrees so you look at one side of the 24 inch long
" H ". The web is now hidden behind the face of the side and runs
horizontal. Mentally move the left end of the horizontal web up to the top
of the side face and the other end down as necessary to achieve the required
10:1 slope.
The spar will lay flat against the horizontal web which is on a 10:1 slope
in relation to the top of the " H ". The router will track on the top of the
sides of the " H " and cut the desired angle for the splice. Four spar
blanks, cut on an angle, one end only, and all the same. Should take about 2
hours to cut all angles.
Send your address to me at ---> childsway@indian-creek.net and I'll get off
a detailed sketch of what it all will look like.
Best wishes,
Rodger
One piece winged Piet in progress.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchman" <mikehi(at)molalla.net> |
Thanks, Rodger. Your second explanation was easier for me to "see". Still,
if you feel like making a sketch, I'd be grateful. I don't own a scanner
either, but the various places I work do, so I take advantage of that when
needed.
My mailing address is:
Mike Hinchman
31722 S. Goodtime Rd.
Molalla, OR 97038
Thanks again,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodger &
Betty Childs
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar Splices
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Michael,
Ah, the limitations of my budget, I don't have a scanner yet. But I could
send
you some sketches by snail mail if you like. I was able to take the fixture
from
an idea to a usable part in about an hour and a half. The scarf for my spars
were made to a 10:1 slope.
Imagine an " H ". This is what the fixture looks like when viewed on end.
Now stretch out the two verticle sides so that the center web is much
longer. Sort of, no, just like a piece of structural steel "H" beam only
made of wood instead and 24 inches long.
Now rotate the " H " 90 degrees so you look at one side of the 24 inch long
" H ". The web is now hidden behind the face of the side and runs
horizontal. Mentally move the left end of the horizontal web up to the top
of the side face and the other end down as necessary to achieve the required
10:1 slope.
The spar will lay flat against the horizontal web which is on a 10:1 slope
in relation to the top of the " H ". The router will track on the top of the
sides of the " H " and cut the desired angle for the splice. Four spar
blanks, cut on an angle, one end only, and all the same. Should take about 2
hours to cut all angles.
Send your address to me at ---> childsway@indian-creek.net and I'll get off
a detailed sketch of what it all will look like.
Best wishes,
Rodger
One piece winged Piet in progress.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Also remember that at that time it was dificult
(imposible?) to find Aircraft quality parts... Most
planes where built from local stores materials.
No ISO 9000 :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
>
> As far as I can tell, the plans don't ever mention
> what kind of plywood to use.
>
> Gene
>
> Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Chris,,,,, Wag-Aero as good deals on eighth inch
> plywood. and you get it
> > fast.
> > you can also check out old wood boat restorers.
> The floor piece is the one
> > that's
> > gonna get you. But stick with the mahogany like
> the plans say.
> > Carl
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:19 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ply Wood
> >
> Tracy
> > >
> > >
> > > I just ordered the spruce for the fuse and tail
> and now I actually looked
> > > at the price of ply wood, OUCH. Any suggestions
> on places cheaper then
> > > AS&S. Also do you know if the aircraft grade
> BASSWOOD ply wood that AS&S
> > > sells is ok to use. It says it is slightly less
> in structural strength
> > > but how much I wonder. I will most likely just
> stick with mahogany and
> > > be grumpy until the wood comes. Once I start to
> glue the fuse together I
> > > will forget all about the price and finaly see
> an airplane taking shape.
> > > ( that is untill the credit card bill comes).
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > ( 5 1/2 wing ribs done)
> > > Chris
> > > Sacramento, CA
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Splices BE CAREFUL! ----------------BE CAREFUL! |
-----------------BE CAREFUL!
Hello gentlemen:
Over the past few years I have had the pleasure of being involved heavilly
in the Sun N Fun Woodworking workshops. Our overall Workshop Director is
Victor Boyce of Lakeland Florida
Victor is a long time expert in aircraft repair, maintenance, and
construction. Holds many certificates and acts as the US rep for the Corby
Starlett. Builds laminated spars for Starlett builders. Glue expert.
Vic has been kind enough to share his knowledge with hundreds (probably
thousands) of people literally worldwide over the last 3 decades.
This last Sun N Fun allowed Vic to demonstrate and teach several workshop
volunteers and visitors the ins and outs of splicing, scarfing, and
laminating wooden structural parts as well as wing spars.
So I had the chance to pick his brain for several days on the techniques for
splicing spars, etc.
I only am jumping into this thread to encourage anybody looking at splicing
(or laminating) a spar to do some serious research. I just got off the
phone with Vic to confirm what my memory told me. And I asked him what
specific sources are pertinent to this topic. FAA document AC43-13-1b and
an old Wood Aircraft Inspection and Fabrication Document - ANC 19 have some
specific slope (runout) requirements for splices. That is 1:15 minimum for
spars (and recommended 1:20 !). Now there is some old info still floating
around (ie; the EAA Aircraft Building techniques - WOOD ) (page 86 ) shows a
diagram that allows a slope of 1:10 as a minimum) IF you use gussetts. Page
53 shows a 1:16 runout. So there is conflicting information out there.
This is not to throw rocks at peoples' wings they have already built. I
just want people to realize there IS some real information and there ARE
experts out there that may be able to help builders who want to research
further. If any body has questions or wants to discuss this, feel free to
contact me and I will relay Vic's E-Mail address or telephone number so you
can contact him. He has said he would be glad to discuss spar construction
with anybody on this group with a question.
Just Meddling....
Bert
912-246-1389
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jim V. spar splice |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Jim,
I'm looking forward to building a laminated spar this summer. I will
look forward to your explanation.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Splices BE CAREFUL! ----------------BE CAREFUL! |
-----------------BE CAREFUL!
A lot of years ago, I was involved with Mr.
Pietenpol,and got to see him building spars.
I am amused and am getting less and less involved with
the run of the mill aviation expert that freely gives
advice and *probably* (I know, not always) has not
built many Pietenpol spars.
I defer to the "experts".
JimV.
--- Conoly wrote:
>
>
> Hello gentlemen:
>
> Over the past few years I have had the pleasure of
> being involved heavilly
> in the Sun N Fun Woodworking workshops. Our overall
> Workshop Director is
> Victor Boyce of Lakeland Florida
>
> Victor is a long time expert in aircraft repair,
> maintenance, and
> construction. Holds many certificates and acts as
> the US rep for the Corby
> Starlett. Builds laminated spars for Starlett
> builders. Glue expert.
> Vic has been kind enough to share his knowledge with
> hundreds (probably
> thousands) of people literally worldwide over the
> last 3 decades.
>
> This last Sun N Fun allowed Vic to demonstrate and
> teach several workshop
> volunteers and visitors the ins and outs of
> splicing, scarfing, and
> laminating wooden structural parts as well as wing
> spars.
>
> So I had the chance to pick his brain for several
> days on the techniques for
> splicing spars, etc.
>
> I only am jumping into this thread to encourage
> anybody looking at splicing
> (or laminating) a spar to do some serious research.
> I just got off the
> phone with Vic to confirm what my memory told me.
> And I asked him what
> specific sources are pertinent to this topic. FAA
> document AC43-13-1b and
> an old Wood Aircraft Inspection and Fabrication
> Document - ANC 19 have some
> specific slope (runout) requirements for splices.
> That is 1:15 minimum for
> spars (and recommended 1:20 !). Now there is some
> old info still floating
> around (ie; the EAA Aircraft Building techniques -
> WOOD ) (page 86 ) shows a
> diagram that allows a slope of 1:10 as a minimum) IF
> you use gussetts. Page
> 53 shows a 1:16 runout. So there is conflicting
> information out there.
>
> This is not to throw rocks at peoples' wings they
> have already built. I
> just want people to realize there IS some real
> information and there ARE
> experts out there that may be able to help builders
> who want to research
> further. If any body has questions or wants to
> discuss this, feel free to
> contact me and I will relay Vic's E-Mail address or
> telephone number so you
> can contact him. He has said he would be glad to
> discuss spar construction
> with anybody on this group with a question.
>
> Just Meddling....
>
> Bert
> 912-246-1389
> bconoly(at)surfsouth.com
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Splices |
I think I see what you have done. Are you scarfing each piece of 3/4
inch stock, building a 29 foot strip and then laminating a stack of
these into a spar, or are you laminating a stack of 3/4 in stock into
a part of a spar and scarfing the parts together?
The reason I ask is that the joint that Bernard describes is scarfed
the wrong way according to standards and practices. The epoxy that
you are using is happiest when the load is applied across the glued
surface in shear and not in tension or compression. Bernard's is in
tension and compression and through bolted for extra safety.
This means that the scarf joint should be across the face of the spar
tapering from 3/4 inch thick to zero over the length of ten or twelve
times 3/4 inch or 7 1/2 to 9 inches. You would probably need to
accomplish this with a plane. What is described using a router seems
to be tapering the joined pieces on the edge from 4 3/4 inches to zero
over a length of 47 1/2 to 57 inches.
I'll bet that joining pieces of spar material the "wrong" way to build
up a spar is plenty strong. Bernard seems to have never had one fail.
But, since the standards for aircraft construction differs on this
point, I would recommend building up your spar in this fashion
instead.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Brass Windshield Frames |
Danford,
Sorry I lost your e-mail address. Please send again. Thanks.
DickG
Ft. Myers, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
We are using 1 inch wide spars and these are routed as indicated in the
Pietenpol drawings. When looking down on the top of the spar, one is
able to see the splice joint going from the front face to the rear face over
a run of 10 inches. There are also plywood plates on the front face and
rear face of the spar that are centered over the splice glue line. These
plates are radius'd on the outside face as per FAA call out.
My building partner who is an A&P assured me that he could cut the
scarf joints for one spar with a spoke shave and plane in 8 hours and
get the scarfs nice and flat for gluing. Many times he had done this he
assured me, and I could too. I wondered. I could make one scarf, perhaps.
But 4 matching ones? I really wondered about that. But I knew that a
router and fixture could do the job and make each scarf the same as the
others. And matching slopes are the MAIN thing here. So that was the
route(r) I took and got good matching scarfs each spar blank.
I think the scarf joint that Bernie used way back when must have been
used in civil engineering or even ship building but I couldn't bring my self
to go that route, although it works. However, the "aircraft way" is the
better way to go.
Rodger
One piece winged Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
When I start back on my piet, (moved into new home) I am going too start
making plans for the motor mount. My question is the soob is underweight
compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How far forward from the fire
wall should I design the motor mount for best weight distribution.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Prange Larry J PSNS <prangel(at)psns.navy.mil> |
Hi All,
In view of the recent spate of discussion on tachometers, I thought that I
would mention that I have a beautiful, new, never installed Stewart-Warner,
model RT-7 mechanical tach for sale. It is 3 1/8" diameter, 3500 RPM, 270
degree sweep, built in Hobbs meter, all black with white lettering, no
green/red range indicators and no cable. I'll take a hundred bucks (US) for
it. prangel(at)psns.navy.mil
Keep Fly'n,
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
The generic way to determine this is to figure out the moment arms fromthe
aircraft's CG. Basically, pick where the CG of the airplane should be
(middle of the CG range?). Then, use this formula:
Ds = (Dma x Wma)/Ws
where:
Ds = distance from A/C CG and Subaru engine CG
Ws = Subaru weight
Dma = distance from A/C CG and Model A engine CG
Wma = Model A weight
Hope this helps.
On Fri, 19 May 2000 vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> When I start back on my piet, (moved into new home) I am going too start
> making plans for the motor mount. My question is the soob is underweight
> compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How far forward from the fire
> wall should I design the motor mount for best weight distribution.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>
> GN-1--<(next project).
>
> IHA #6
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Absolutely NONE.
Move your wing to get the proper CG!
JimV.
--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> vistin(at)juno.com
>
> When I start back on my piet, (moved into new home)
> I am going too start
> making plans for the motor mount. My question is the
> soob is underweight
> compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How far
> forward from the fire
> wall should I design the motor mount for best weight
> distribution.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>
> GN-1--<(next project).
>
> IHA #6
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not picking bones with this at all - I'm new to all of this, but
conceptually here is how I see things.
1. A lighter engine shifts the CG back, possibly beyond advisable limits.
2. Shifting the engine forward would compensate for the weight
difference and move the CG forward.
3. Moving the wings back would move the CG back even further, but it
would also move the Center of Lift rearward and might deal with the
problem.
4. Moving the wing forward would move the CG forward, but would also
move the Center of Lift forward and possibly cause more problems.
Jim, which way should the wing be moved?
I have thought about this before because I am considering moving my
engine and or wings to compensate for my 220lbs in the rear seat
(hopefully less by the time I have the Piet flying).
Thanks
Kirk
>
>Absolutely NONE.
>Move your wing to get the proper CG!
>
>JimV.
>
>
>--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>> vistin(at)juno.com
>>
>> When I start back on my piet, (moved into new home)
>> I am going too start
>> making plans for the motor mount. My question is the
>> soob is underweight
>> compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How far
>> forward from the fire
>> wall should I design the motor mount for best weight
>> distribution.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Steve
>>
>> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>>
>> GN-1--<(next project).
>>
>> IHA #6
>>
>>
>>
>> through
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>> Matronics!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Splices |
Good point Mike!
That's the point (or similar to it) that I was making regarding the
recommended 1:15 (or preferred 1:20) splice (scarf) angle foud in some of
the more recent literature. You are right- the scarf should be along the
long axis of the rectangular spar. Also a 1:15 or 20 may be impractical if
done in the wrong axis because when you multiply 15 (or 20)times a depth of
4 or 5 inches, the length (15 x this dimension) is LONG. depending on where
the splice is, it may not even be possible.
On my plans, it looks like the useable distance is about 20 inches between
the cabane strut mounting brackets. So if you take that as the controlling
parameter and calculate the glue area,for the splice as shown in the plans,
you have a glue area of about 20.55 square inches
_________________
( 1 x \/ (20*20) + (4.75)*(4.75)) This is a slope of about 1:4.2.!
If you put a splice in the long axis , you have a glue area of about 95.1
square inches
______________
( 4.75 x \/ (20*20) + (1)*(1)) This is a slope of about 1:20. ( More like
the current recommended slope.)
Therefore if you are depending on the glue coverage to be the saviour, of
course the splice with the largest glue area is the one you want to use.
But, the clincher here is the placement of the two bolts in the method
proposed in the plans. So all this slope angle stuff is now chunked out the
proverbial window - we arent comparing the same construction techniques are
we. So a person could do some serious calcs to determine the compression and
tension loading, shear capacities of bolts, likelihood of bolt hole
elongation, probability of splitting , compression failures or other
failures. But not me.... I agree withmost everybody on this group that
Pietenpol's method is just fine - it just doesn't comply with current
standards - Is that a problem??? I don't know. Doesn't bother me too much.
Each builder should decide on his own.
I agree that the "new standards" of construction should probably be followed
WHEN POSSIBLE OR PRACTICAL. Many times a change was developed over the last
two or three decades as a result of improved engineering analysis methods,
access to computer modelling, improved materials, or empirical forensic
(sp?) data. People a lot smarter than me have determined that some thing
will offer a higher level of probability of safety.
I dont doubt one bit that Pietenpol's spar splice will work. I've flown a
Piet with that type spar splice. It flew great - didn't break off. But we
could also surmise that a spar with 4 - 5/8 inch carriage bolts and no glue
at all "would fly". Probably not very long. (Actually, it probably would).
Lots of other things were built into WWI and WWII era planes that by todays
standards aren't acceptable not only to amateurs but professional builders.
Not much casein glue around these days. Nor stitched linen. Nor big radials
or bailing wire.
I also agree that we have to be careful not to put too much trust in the
"experts" as JimV seems hesitant to do in his response to my e-mail to the
group last night. My main concern is that we have so many NEW and
INEXPERIENCED builders (Like Me - I ARE ONE.!) building planes. A high
level of attention to detail and playing the safe bets statistically may
keep more people safe. We have a wide range of abilities in our hobby these
days - and we have thousands of planes under construction.
Some of our builders have multiple planes under their belts and are light
years ahead of me as a builder. I would NEVER tell you guys not to do
something. I would never "diss" Pietenpol. I would only offer a suggestion
to those building to DO RESEARCH if in doubt - there are "experts" out there
(Look at your own EAA resources). Some change is good - some may not be
necessary. Seat belts for instance werent put into cars until some body
had a brainstorm to hold people in place and not let them be ejected from a
vehicle. That was innovative - different. But has proven statistically to
save peoples' lives. I think the aircraft industry most likely has improved
some ways of doing things that also may be worthy of research by us
builders.
Just my two cents.
Not meant in any other way than to stimulate ideas amongst us.
Bert (who hopes to get back on the Air Anvil project this weekend)
Original Message -----
From: "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Splices
>
>
> I think I see what you have done. Are you scarfing each piece of 3/4
> inch stock, building a 29 foot strip and then laminating a stack of
> these into a spar, or are you laminating a stack of 3/4 in stock into
> a part of a spar and scarfing the parts together?
>
> The reason I ask is that the joint that Bernard describes is scarfed
> the wrong way according to standards and practices. The epoxy that
> you are using is happiest when the load is applied across the glued
> surface in shear and not in tension or compression. Bernard's is in
> tension and compression and through bolted for extra safety.
>
> This means that the scarf joint should be across the face of the spar
> tapering from 3/4 inch thick to zero over the length of ten or twelve
> times 3/4 inch or 7 1/2 to 9 inches. You would probably need to
> accomplish this with a plane. What is described using a router seems
> to be tapering the joined pieces on the edge from 4 3/4 inches to zero
> over a length of 47 1/2 to 57 inches.
>
> I'll bet that joining pieces of spar material the "wrong" way to build
> up a spar is plenty strong. Bernard seems to have never had one fail.
> But, since the standards for aircraft construction differs on this
> point, I would recommend building up your spar in this fashion
> instead.
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
My understanding is that moving the wing back will
indeed make the aircraft more nose heavy.
If you think it doesn't, then I really can't continue
with this line of thought.
Build the airplane, move the wing, and recalculate the
CG.
I did.
JimV.
--- Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> wrote:
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> I'm not picking bones with this at all - I'm new to
> all of this, but
> conceptually here is how I see things.
>
> 1. A lighter engine shifts the CG back, possibly
> beyond advisable limits.
> 2. Shifting the engine forward would compensate for
> the weight
> difference and move the CG forward.
> 3. Moving the wings back would move the CG back even
> further, but it
> would also move the Center of Lift rearward and
> might deal with the
> problem.
> 4. Moving the wing forward would move the CG
> forward, but would also
> move the Center of Lift forward and possibly cause
> more problems.
>
> Jim, which way should the wing be moved?
>
> I have thought about this before because I am
> considering moving my
> engine and or wings to compensate for my 220lbs in
> the rear seat
> (hopefully less by the time I have the Piet flying).
>
> Thanks
> Kirk
>
>
> >
> >Absolutely NONE.
> >Move your wing to get the proper CG!
> >
> >JimV.
> >
> >
> >--- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> >> vistin(at)juno.com
> >>
> >> When I start back on my piet, (moved into new
> home)
> >> I am going too start
> >> making plans for the motor mount. My question is
> the
> >> soob is underweight
> >> compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How
> far
> >> forward from the fire
> >> wall should I design the motor mount for best
> weight
> >> distribution.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
> >>
> >> GN-1--<(next project).
> >>
> >> IHA #6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> through
> >>
> >> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >>
> >> Matronics!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Send instant messages & get email alerts with
> Yahoo! Messenger.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Kirk,
Moving the wing back on Piets is the time-honored way of adjusting CG for
different weight engines. This solves the problem when installing the
lighter aircraft style engines.
You could also extend the engine mounts to give the engine a longer arm.
You could also build the extended fuselage version of the Piet which was
designed for the Corvair engine by BHP himself. That way it's still a "real"
Piet!
One thing I like about adding the length ahead of the wing is that it
keeps the wing a little more forward and aids ingress/egress a little. I
plan on building the longer fuselage, with the wing a few inches higher than
plans, this does make the Piet a little heavier, but roomier too -
everything's a trade-off!
Find a Piet locally and take a million pictures, buy the builder lunch,
and ask them a million questions, that's the best way to get a feel for what
can be done with this design. Biggest thing though, don't let little
questions stop you, I don't know where you are in the buidling process, but
while you're figuring this stuff out, there's no reason why you can't also
be gluing ribs or tail surfaces together!
Listen to JimV though, he's been around the block a time or two on this
Piet stuff! There's just lots of different ways to skin this cat!
Good luck!
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Moving the wing to achieve the correct weight and
balance it time honored, I suppose, because Mr.
Pietenpol said that if you extend the motor mounts and
put the engine weight farther forward, you will not
recover from a forward slip quickly. This could be
embarrassing during a short field landing attempt, if
you slipped into the ground.
Any deviation from the plans will cause the airplane
to be not quite so good. The more severe the
deviation, the less better the end result will be.
PS., if you really have to change from the plans, make
it weaker and lighter, not stronger, heavier, and
"better". Mine came out to weigh 610 pounds, and flies
real well.
JimV.
--- Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> Kirk,
>
> Moving the wing back on Piets is the time-honored
> way of adjusting CG for
> different weight engines. This solves the problem
> when installing the
> lighter aircraft style engines.
>
> You could also extend the engine mounts to give
> the engine a longer arm.
> You could also build the extended fuselage version
> of the Piet which was
> designed for the Corvair engine by BHP himself. That
> way it's still a "real"
> Piet!
>
> One thing I like about adding the length ahead of
> the wing is that it
> keeps the wing a little more forward and aids
> ingress/egress a little. I
> plan on building the longer fuselage, with the wing
> a few inches higher than
> plans, this does make the Piet a little heavier, but
> roomier too -
> everything's a trade-off!
>
> Find a Piet locally and take a million pictures,
> buy the builder lunch,
> and ask them a million questions, that's the best
> way to get a feel for what
> can be done with this design. Biggest thing though,
> don't let little
> questions stop you, I don't know where you are in
> the buidling process, but
> while you're figuring this stuff out, there's no
> reason why you can't also
> be gluing ribs or tail surfaces together!
>
> Listen to JimV though, he's been around the block
> a time or two on this
> Piet stuff! There's just lots of different ways to
> skin this cat!
>
> Good luck!
> Gary Meadows
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
though totally non-scientific, try to visualize this, the piet is
suspended by that imaginary sky hook at it's balance point of 1/3 back
from the leading edge of the wing. now if the fuselage was moved forward
(same as moving wing back) the wieght is transfered forward pushing the
nose down. what you must be looking at is at the 3 point tail down
position on the ground and the wing is moved back, the weight indeed
moved rearward but when suspended from the wings cg (1/3 of cord) which
is flying position, the reverse happens and the nose comes down.....
might not be the best or clearest explanation but it works for me.
my $.02 worth.
JoeC
Zion, Illinois
dpilot wrote:
> > I'm not picking bones with this at all - I'm new to
> > all of this, but
> > conceptually here is how I see things.
> >
> > 1. A lighter engine shifts the CG back, possibly
> > beyond advisable limits.
> > 2. Shifting the engine forward would compensate for
> > the weight
> > difference and move the CG forward.
> > 3. Moving the wings back would move the CG back even
> > further, but it
> > would also move the Center of Lift rearward and
> > might deal with the
> > problem.
> > 4. Moving the wing forward would move the CG
> > forward, but would also
> > move the Center of Lift forward and possibly cause
> > more problems.
> >
> > Jim, which way should the wing be moved?
> >
> > I have thought about this before because I am
> > considering moving my
> > engine and or wings to compensate for my 220lbs in
> > the rear seat
> > (hopefully less by the time I have the Piet flying).
> >
> > Thanks
> > Kirk
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Windshield Framing Material |
your post got me to looking at back issues of eaa experimenter. in an old
issue a guy built his steerman type wind screen from plastic glass formed
in one piece by bending it in a sheet metal brake. he then made a simple
frame of small tubing just in the inside of the trailing edge.
I suspect he thenwelded tabs to the tube, and pop rivited the plexiglass to
the tabs.
If one were to use this methoud, he could then cover any outside with a
false framing, just for looks.
From the picts, it looked pretty good. I may try it, but with no outside
framing.
>From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield Framing Material
>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:00:24 -0400
>
>
>
>Planning to start fabricating Stearman type windshields. Need
>recommendations for aluminum type and thickness. Any advice is
>appreciated.
>
>DickG
>Ft. Myers, FL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Windshield Framing Material |
If you use a piece of Lexan or equal, you can bend it in a sheet metal
brake -- a cardboard template will let you know the shape & size -- 3/32" or
1/8" material should do the job -- use at least a 1 to 2 thickness inside
radius so you don't have any cracks on the edges. Plex has to be heated
along the bend to be formed that way.
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield Framing Material
>
> your post got me to looking at back issues of eaa experimenter. in an old
> issue a guy built his steerman type wind screen from plastic glass formed
> in one piece by bending it in a sheet metal brake. he then made a simple
> frame of small tubing just in the inside of the trailing edge.
> I suspect he thenwelded tabs to the tube, and pop rivited the plexiglass
to
> the tabs.
> If one were to use this methoud, he could then cover any outside with a
> false framing, just for looks.
> >From the picts, it looked pretty good. I may try it, but with no outside
> framing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
Thought I'd pass on what I'm using for tailwires, as it had me stumped
for
a long time. I don't have enough turnbuckles and am not that keen on how
they look anyways so I came up with my own. (no doubt something similar
exists in the aircraft world, or maybe I should get a patent) I used 64
thou 4130 strips doubled over to make the portion which bolts to the tail.
It is bent over a 1/2" rod with a 3/16" hole drilled thru the end of the
portion bent over the rod. Inside this bent portion is a piece of 1/2"
drill rod that has been sliced lengthwise and is 5/8" long, and is drilled
thru from radius to flat with a 3/16 drill. The 3/16 stainless brace,
threaded on both ends has first a jam nut, goes thru the bent brace
fitting, thru the 1/2" drill rod from radius to flat and then a locknut.
Makes a very clean, strong, light, and cheap fitting. They are very quick
to make, and I will use them for the strut cross braces also.
I tried cutting the threads, but the stainless is rather gummy, so I think
I will try to make a jig to roll threads on my lathe. I figure it will be
similar to a pipe cutter and will traverse with the carriage like normal
single point threading. I figure even cut threads will be fine, as the
root diameter is still a good 1/8" which is heavier than the plans call for
anyways.
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
PS. John McNary, I haven't forgotten your clock, just slow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net> |
Wayne,
I have a tail section from a '46 Taylorcraft that uses the same setup (sorry
about your patent hopes! ;-) -- they used 5/8" 1/2 rd bar for inside the
straps -- it was drilled & countersunk for what appears to be a motorcycle
spoke nipple ( I went to a local "hog shop" to find out what I could about
them -- the best guess was it was the same as a early "pan-head" Harley)
The thread in the nipple was #8-36 -- if this is the same as what can be
rolled for spoke threads, you could have your wire threads rolled pretty
easily -- just don't mention anything about aeroplanes! ;-)
Mike C.
Pretty Prairie, KS
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Sippola <sippola(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwires
>
> Thought I'd pass on what I'm using for tailwires, as it had me
stumped for
> a long time. I don't have enough turnbuckles and am not that keen on how
> they look anyways so I came up with my own. (no doubt something similar
> exists in the aircraft world, or maybe I should get a patent) I used 64
> thou 4130 strips doubled over to make the portion which bolts to the tail.
> It is bent over a 1/2" rod with a 3/16" hole drilled thru the end of the
> portion bent over the rod. Inside this bent portion is a piece of 1/2"
> drill rod that has been sliced lengthwise and is 5/8" long, and is drilled
> thru from radius to flat with a 3/16 drill. The 3/16 stainless brace,
> threaded on both ends has first a jam nut, goes thru the bent brace
> fitting, thru the 1/2" drill rod from radius to flat and then a locknut.
> Makes a very clean, strong, light, and cheap fitting. They are very quick
> to make, and I will use them for the strut cross braces also.
> I tried cutting the threads, but the stainless is rather gummy, so
I think
> I will try to make a jig to roll threads on my lathe. I figure it will be
> similar to a pipe cutter and will traverse with the carriage like normal
> single point threading. I figure even cut threads will be fine, as the
> root diameter is still a good 1/8" which is heavier than the plans call
for
> anyways.
> Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> PS. John McNary, I haven't forgotten your clock, just slow.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
Michael
I originally machined a similar type of nipple that would go thru the 1/2"
rod so that you could adjust them easier. I then realized that it was far
simpler and just as strong to use a nut on the inside. It will be a bit
more difficult to adjust. I intend to modify pliers to hold the nut still
while the rod is turned to take up the slack, as it is a bit too tight to
turn the nuts inside the fitting. Maybe I'll give some 5/8" rod pieces a
try.
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
----------
> From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwires
> Date: Sunday, May 21, 2000 2:01 PM
>
>
> Wayne,
>
> I have a tail section from a '46 Taylorcraft that uses the same setup
(sorry
> about your patent hopes! ;-) -- they used 5/8" 1/2 rd bar for inside the
> straps -- it was drilled & countersunk for what appears to be a
motorcycle
> spoke nipple ( I went to a local "hog shop" to find out what I could
about
> them -- the best guess was it was the same as a early "pan-head" Harley)
> The thread in the nipple was #8-36 -- if this is the same as what can be
> rolled for spoke threads, you could have your wire threads rolled pretty
> easily -- just don't mention anything about aeroplanes! ;-)
>
> Mike C.
> Pretty Prairie, KS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wayne Sippola <sippola(at)escape.ca>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 8:09 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwires
>
>
> >
> > Thought I'd pass on what I'm using for tailwires, as it had me
> stumped for
> > a long time. I don't have enough turnbuckles and am not that keen on
how
> > they look anyways so I came up with my own. (no doubt something
similar
> > exists in the aircraft world, or maybe I should get a patent) I used
64
> > thou 4130 strips doubled over to make the portion which bolts to the
tail.
> > It is bent over a 1/2" rod with a 3/16" hole drilled thru the end of
the
> > portion bent over the rod. Inside this bent portion is a piece of 1/2"
> > drill rod that has been sliced lengthwise and is 5/8" long, and is
drilled
> > thru from radius to flat with a 3/16 drill. The 3/16 stainless brace,
> > threaded on both ends has first a jam nut, goes thru the bent brace
> > fitting, thru the 1/2" drill rod from radius to flat and then a
locknut.
> > Makes a very clean, strong, light, and cheap fitting. They are very
quick
> > to make, and I will use them for the strut cross braces also.
> > I tried cutting the threads, but the stainless is rather gummy,
so
> I think
> > I will try to make a jig to roll threads on my lathe. I figure it will
be
> > similar to a pipe cutter and will traverse with the carriage like
normal
> > single point threading. I figure even cut threads will be fine, as the
> > root diameter is still a good 1/8" which is heavier than the plans call
> for
> > anyways.
> > Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
> > PS. John McNary, I haven't forgotten your clock, just slow.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Replacing Newsletter |
talked to grant in feb this year. he has suspended
everything for the time being, jkc
--- Mike Bell wrote:
>
>
>
> One very important resource that is missing is the
> archive of
> newsletters. I hope that Grant eventually surfaces.
> If he has soft
> copies of the newsletter they could be posted for
> WEB access.
> Alternately, he may resume selling copies, or pass
> them along for
> someone to make them available.
>
> It would be good if folks out there who have a
> complete set of
> newsletters would make them available for copying.
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
Stumped again. I'm rigging the tail control cables, using cable clamps
for now, and am having a problem with the elevator cable tensions. The
tension is varying from slack at neutral to too tight at full up or down
deflection. I've tried different angles between the center horn and the
elevator horn, but still have the same problem. Any one know off hand what
the problem is? I've measured the attachment fitting to hinge points, and
they seem fine, so is there something obvious I'm doing wrong? The top
cables are also hitting the leading edge of the tail, as expected. The
only way I could avoid this is to route the top cable over the top of the
longerons. It would work, but I don't think I'll do it. I did route the
rudder cables to below the elevator vice above. Doesn't need pulleys under
the seat that way. I put the fuselage on its main wheels a week ago. 8.5
x 6 tires look real nice. Lots of rubber necking in the cars driving by.
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Wayne,
Positioning the bell crank per the drawing will make the to elevator cable
hit the top of the stabilizer. I'm sure most people have had the same
problem. What I did to my bell crank was position it higher up so the cable
could come out of the side of the aircraft at a better angle. It will still
hit a little but not as much. You will nee to protect that area on the top
of the stabilizer with a flat piece of nylon, or teflon. I also entrapped
the cable so it wouldn't slide sideways, because it also does that too. Now
the problem with the tightness and slackness of the cables...it's a
compromise. You'll find the control cable prior to the bell crank will also
vary in tension. I heard some people have put in good bungee cords to take
up the slack. I don't think you want it tight( better a little slack), for
one the tension will ruin the pulleys in no time and two your stick will
feel tight and not right. Did you put two pulleys, side by side just at the
back of the seat at the lowest point to help the cables change direction?
Hope this helps. If not it will at least open the discussion to others.
Regards,
Domenico Bellissimo
Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator cables |
Wayne
I had a long talk with a builder at Brodhead a few years back, I noticed
his cables didn't go slack and asked him about it. He said it was in the
shape of the elevator horns and the bellcrank. The lever length both sides
of the pivot points must be the same and more importantly, if the elevator
horns to elevator hinge line form a triangle, then the bellcrank must also
have the same points. The result should be the bellcrank, cables and
elevator horns form a parallelogram. The arc swing from centerpivot to cable
attach points the same on both elevator horns and bellcrank.
Don't worry about the clock it doesn't keep track of time either ;-)
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Sippola <sippola(at)escape.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator cables
>
> Stumped again. I'm rigging the tail control cables, using cable
clamps
> for now, and am having a problem with the elevator cable tensions. The
> tension is varying from slack at neutral to too tight at full up or down
> deflection. I've tried different angles between the center horn and the
> elevator horn, but still have the same problem. Any one know off hand
what
> the problem is? I've measured the attachment fitting to hinge points, and
> they seem fine, so is there something obvious I'm doing wrong? The top
> cables are also hitting the leading edge of the tail, as expected. The
> only way I could avoid this is to route the top cable over the top of the
> longerons. It would work, but I don't think I'll do it. I did route the
> rudder cables to below the elevator vice above. Doesn't need pulleys
under
> the seat that way. I put the fuselage on its main wheels a week ago. 8.5
> x 6 tires look real nice. Lots of rubber necking in the cars driving by.
> Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
In a message dated 5/13/00 11:24:14 AM Central Daylight Time, vistin(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Chuck:
So you use a tail skid instead?? Wondering minds want too kno!
Steve >>
Steve, sorry to take so long to reply...I've been kinda busy, ya know. I
haven't checked the Pietenpol mail for awhile. I don't understand when you
ask if I use a tail skid 'instead'. The plans call for a tail skid. That's
what has been used for 70 years. That's what I use.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 05/21/00 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 05/21/00 |
Wayne...what you are describing is the standard Piper tail braces. If you
want to go that way, look in your trusty Wag catalog. Although I don't have
one in front of me, I'm sure they have them for their Piper replicas. They
are also adjustable for rigging the tailplane.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | Tail Skid material. |
I am planning on using the tail skid called for in the 1933 Piet plans.
But there seems too be a real shortage of "T" model springs around.
Please tell me what width, length, and thickness yall used for your skids
and what did yall use for the skid shoe.
Thanks
Steve
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hinchman" <mikehi(at)molalla.net> |
I got your nice explanation and sketch today. This really helps me to
understand it. As I suspected, this is a good way to cut scarf joints
reasonably quickly that are the same, every time. A good, elegant solution
and makes me want to get back to work with wooden airplanes.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve,
I guess you are looking for the style of tail skid used on the "early"
models of Piets. If you checked with the automotive shops that do work
on leaf springs such as re-arching, they could help make something to the
shape you want. They would aneal the spring material, cut, shape, and
re-harden the spring for you. Straight forward. No chopping up a "T" and
making some collector cry.
Of course, the "Improved" model Piet used a different design altogether.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
Roger:
Tell me more bout the improved style skid/t,wheel.
Steve
<childsway@indian-creek.net> writes:
> <childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> Steve,
> I guess you are looking for the style of tail skid used on the
> "early"
> models of Piets. If you checked with the automotive shops that do
> work
> on leaf springs such as re-arching, they could help make something
> to the
> shape you want. They would aneal the spring material, cut, shape,
> and
> re-harden the spring for you. Straight forward. No chopping up a "T"
> and
> making some collector cry.
>
> Of course, the "Improved" model Piet used a different design
> altogether.
>
> Rodger
> Piet in progress
>
>
>
>
>
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailwheel/tailskid springs |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Tailwheel/tailskid springs
Here is some info from an old issue of the BPAN,
Issue #53, 1996, p.13 has a letter from Bruce Heinninger, 10613 W.
98th Ter.,
Overland Park , KS. 66214:I went looking through my old BPANews letters
and found two good entries
about springs for the tail wheel/skid. Issue #50, 1995, p. 5 and
w/pic on p. 11:
"Don Hicks (p.o.BOX 127, Hartford ,AL 36344) built this
tailwheel assembly
with plans from Yesterday's Wings. Coil spring is cut to
length from a Kawasaki motorcycle's 21" front strut.
The 7 " spring section measures 170-190lbs.
fully compressed. Tubing from strut housing was used to
provide upper
and lower spring retainer sockets."
And here is another solution, probably the "more traditional" route.
"John Deere sells a spring that's a perfect match for the specs;
its part number is
T 143444, and it costs about $9.00. Its outer dia. is 1.5
in.; full length
( no load ) is 6.73" ; the coil itself is .191" thick. I've
tested its compresed
load, and it almost gets totally compressed under my weight (c.
210 lbs.). I
don't know what the spring is used for in a John Deere, but Ken
Perkins tells
me that the spring for a 1929 JD rake is a perfect match.
Maybe "that's what
it's for."
Hope this is what you need.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Dortch" <smallfish(at)enid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Model T spring/tail skid |
Just from being around some Model T guys, I know that you can get new model
T parts and I would guess that this includes the springs. In fact they tell
me you can build a complete model T if you have the engine core and frame.
They make every thing else.
I don't have any Idea about cost.
Blue Skies
Steve Dortch
Just thinking about building a Piet. I have a Model A engine to start.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel/tailskid springs |
John
My name is Gary currently living in Mandeville La. I was just in Peoria 2
weeks ago, I was filling in for one of the pilots for Life Flihgt at St.
Frances Hospital. They tell me I may be up there again. I'm currently
building a Piet with a Subaru in it. If I get back up there I would love to
stop by and meet with you and see what you have.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve,
On the "Improved" Piet drawings (1934) it shows a tail skid that has two
pivoting tubes, each is attached to the lower longerons and goes to a skid
plate with a vertical skeg welded to it, sort of like the skeg on a surf
board.
The springing action is taken up by a coil spring such as from a motorcycle
front or rear suspension and cut to a length of 6 7/9". This is caught in a
shallow "cup" just under the tail-post and in another "cup" brazed to the
top of the skid plate.
The skeg adds some side resistance to prevent the tail from comming around
unwanted. If you desire a very authentic looking "antique" airplane then
couple the tail skid with large wire wheels, BUT never land on a paved
runway as
the tail skid will skate you around into a horrific ground loop. Always land
on
a grass strip with a tail skid. Note, it can be landed on a paved runway but
it grooves the runway somewhat and is exciting.
Or you can order the drawing for a steerable tail wheel assembly from:
Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works, Inc
Hampton Airfield, Route 1 Lafayette Rd.
North Hampton, NH 03862
This steerable tail wheel mounts to the skid plate (minus the skeg) and is a
neat arrangement.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
fly5k(at)listbot.com
| Subject: | aluminum turnbuckles. |
I bought a piet fuse the other day and noticed some of the turnbuckles
are aluminum. Are these aircraft approved? If not how do I install some
that are without cuting the cable or the turnbuckle.
Steve
Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
GN-1--<(next project).
IHA #6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum turnbuckles. |
If they are pressed (Nico-Pressed), forget it, they have to be cut to be
removed. Fortunately, cable and nico-press sleeves are very
inexpensive. In face, many hardware stores now carry aircrafy cable. Just
check the spools that they come on for the MS Number if you're unsure. I
bought a spool of 1/8" cable that was un-opened strait from the factory
for about 1/3 the price that the A/C warehouses charge. Granted, a lot of
it was used for non-aircraft purposes, but there was still enought o
finish the Christavia with. Of course, you cannot use it for certified
aircraft as it is not signed off by an inspector.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Thu, 25 May 2000 vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> I bought a piet fuse the other day and noticed some of the turnbuckles
> are aluminum. Are these aircraft approved? If not how do I install some
> that are without cuting the cable or the turnbuckle.
>
> Steve
>
> Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
>
> GN-1--<(next project).
>
> IHA #6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | "a little play in the lower end of strut" |
The note on the struts page says "lower end of strut is given a little play
to avoid chances of crystalizing fuse fitting". Does this mean to enlarge
the hole in the fuse fitting , or not to "crush" the streamlined tube ,,,or
what?
I don't understand the concept.
thanks
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "a little play in the lower end of strut" |
Walter
In the machinery repair bussiness, I often get the statment that a
part "chrystalized and broke". However all metals are chrystaline in
stucture the only time you will actually be able to see the structure is
when the part is fractured, usually by repeated stress cycling, any other
cutting method smears the chrystals and then we don't see them. The heat
treating that is done on metals changes the size of the chrystals and
rearranges their structural patterns. Smaller denser structural patterns
usually relates to harder and more brittle material.
I don't know why the note is on the strut page, but my guess is that
there is some bending moment that is transferred from the strut to the
fitting. A slightly larger hole in the connection would allow some movement
and reduce the bending action. I would be more concerned that the welding
done in the fuse fitting was allowed to cool slowly to "normalize" the
metal. Forced cooling with ferrous metals usually results in localized
hardening and stress failures.
Hope this helps.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "a little play in the lower end of strut"
>
> The note on the struts page says "lower end of strut is given a little
play
> to avoid chances of crystalizing fuse fitting". Does this mean to
enlarge
> the hole in the fuse fitting , or not to "crush" the streamlined tube
,,,or
> what?
> I don't understand the concept.
> thanks
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | "a little play in the lower end of lift strut" |
This was mentioned in a past issue of the BPANews. The comment given was
"better use jury struts". I assumed the flexing was due to the lack of
jurystruts, Apparently in the "old days", streamlined tubing had ribs
formed in them for stiffness. That's how BHP got away with no jury
struts. evidently there was still some vibration flexing he was
concerned about. Now days streamline tubing don"t have the extra
stiffener ribs(like shown on the plans) and everyone uses jury struts.
Perhaps some engineer could tell us if this cristalising problem is a
thing of the past with jury struts at mid length holding the lift struts
firmly. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "a little play in the lower end of strut" |
John and Leon,
Thanks , now I see. If the center of the strut moves/vibrates when flying,
it is prying or flexing at the strut fitting , where the movement is
perpendicular to the bolt.
At the wing end, it can pivot at the bolt. I planned on jury struts, so I
should be ok.
Thanks guys.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: walter evans <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "a little play in the lower end of strut"
>
>The note on the struts page says "lower end of strut is given a little play
>to avoid chances of crystalizing fuse fitting". Does this mean to enlarge
>the hole in the fuse fitting , or not to "crush" the streamlined tube ,,,or
>what?
>I don't understand the concept.
>thanks
>walt
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Click here for Free Video!!
>http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | A little slack..... |
Hello Walter: I'm no engineer or metallurgist, but I came to the same
conclusion you did. Still, I think I will leave a tiny amount of
looseness at the lower end just to be on the safe side. Good luck on
your Piet. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Azusa Aluminum Wheels? |
Anyone out there using Azusa wheels and brakes?
I'm just wondering what people know about them - quality, durability,
reliability, etc for a Piet.
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Azusa Aluminum Wheels? |
too light weight for a piet, the people at AS and S
will even tell you that over the phone. there is a
company in california that builds aluminum rims for
racing 4 wheelers that are inexpensive and strong. and
then use calipers and discs from a four wheeler. if
your interested I can find their address.
del
--- Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> wrote:
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> Anyone out there using Azusa wheels and brakes?
>
> I'm just wondering what people know about them -
> quality, durability,
> reliability, etc for a Piet.
>
> Thanks
> Kirk
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Azusa Aluminum Wheels? |
Del,
Do you mean too light as in weight (balance reasons) or too light as
in can take the abuse?
I would like the address of the other company if you can find it.
Kirk
>
>too light weight for a piet, the people at AS and S
>will even tell you that over the phone. there is a
>company in california that builds aluminum rims for
>racing 4 wheelers that are inexpensive and strong. and
>then use calipers and discs from a four wheeler. if
>your interested I can find their address.
>del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "a little play in the lower end of lift strut" |
I'm not an engineer but i think that the jury strut is supposed to resist
compression loads . A compression load will/should cause the strut to
collaps at its least supported location...the middle.
The compression strut then acts to shorten the length on the unsupported
wing strut by half. Causing any compression loads to be concentrated at two
new centers...each of those at the half way point from the jury strut .
In effect causing the wing strut to be 1/2 as long as what you see, and
causing the stresses to concentrate at two places, each at the 1/4 full
strut length points from each end.
It seems to me that we could still eliminate the jury strut. The solution
may be to incert a piece of tubing say 3ft feet long or so, with its center
at the center of the area of greatest compression load.
That being the at the jury strut location.
By doubling the thickness of the strut at this area of greatest compressive
stress...then tapering the tube like the lever end of a cloths pin at both
ends...so to allow stress to flow away from a potential stress riser, one
could send the compressive stress concentration to two new centers,,, both
at the 1/2 way... away location of the jury strut. ( 2 , 1/4 locations if
one were looking at the full length strut)
The effect should be the same as a jury strut, in that stress would in
effect be acting upon a strut that is as far as the compressive stress is
concerned is 1/2 its origonal lenght.
If what I said makes any sence that is...
>From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: "a little play in the lower end of lift strut"
>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:40:43 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Stefan)
>
>This was mentioned in a past issue of the BPANews. The comment given was
>"better use jury struts". I assumed the flexing was due to the lack of
>jurystruts, Apparently in the "old days", streamlined tubing had ribs
>formed in them for stiffness. That's how BHP got away with no jury
>struts. evidently there was still some vibration flexing he was
>concerned about. Now days streamline tubing don"t have the extra
>stiffener ribs(like shown on the plans) and everyone uses jury struts.
>Perhaps some engineer could tell us if this cristalising problem is a
>thing of the past with jury struts at mid length holding the lift struts
>firmly. Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "a little play in the lower end of lift strut" |
However true all of this may be, the jury strut also prevents excessive
vibration of the strut (and therefore destruction at the ends) just like
the javelin in the flying wires of a biplane.
----------
> From: oil can <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "a little play in the lower end of lift
strut"
> Date: Monday, May 29, 2000 12:58 AM
>
>
>
> I'm not an engineer but i think that the jury strut is supposed to resist
> compression loads . A compression load will/should cause the strut to
> collaps at its least supported location...the middle.
>
> The compression strut then acts to shorten the length on the unsupported
> wing strut by half. Causing any compression loads to be concentrated at
two
> new centers...each of those at the half way point from the jury strut .
> In effect causing the wing strut to be 1/2 as long as what you see, and
> causing the stresses to concentrate at two places, each at the 1/4 full
> strut length points from each end.
>
> It seems to me that we could still eliminate the jury strut. The solution
> may be to incert a piece of tubing say 3ft feet long or so, with its
center
> at the center of the area of greatest compression load.
> That being the at the jury strut location.
>
> By doubling the thickness of the strut at this area of greatest
compressive
> stress...then tapering the tube like the lever end of a cloths pin at
both
> ends...so to allow stress to flow away from a potential stress riser, one
> could send the compressive stress concentration to two new centers,,,
both
> at the 1/2 way... away location of the jury strut. ( 2 , 1/4 locations
if
> one were looking at the full length strut)
>
> The effect should be the same as a jury strut, in that stress would in
> effect be acting upon a strut that is as far as the compressive stress is
> concerned is 1/2 its origonal lenght.
>
> If what I said makes any sence that is...
>
> >From: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: "a little play in the lower end of lift strut"
> >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:40:43 -0500 (CDT)
> >
> >Stefan)
> >
> >This was mentioned in a past issue of the BPANews. The comment given was
> >"better use jury struts". I assumed the flexing was due to the lack of
> >jurystruts, Apparently in the "old days", streamlined tubing had ribs
> >formed in them for stiffness. That's how BHP got away with no jury
> >struts. evidently there was still some vibration flexing he was
> >concerned about. Now days streamline tubing don"t have the extra
> >stiffener ribs(like shown on the plans) and everyone uses jury struts.
> >Perhaps some engineer could tell us if this cristalising problem is a
> >thing of the past with jury struts at mid length holding the lift struts
> >firmly. Leon S.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Lift strut vibration |
A great example of this vibration is to look at your car radio antenna
as you drive down the highway. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Azusa Aluminum Wheels? |
I mean't not strong enough. they are designed for
ultralights. the company is Douglass wheels.
www.douglaswheel.com 800-race-rim 760-758-5560. They
sell them in wheel halfs and then you put them
together. they have bolt holes so you need to machine
hubs. overall weight for vee, axle,bearings, hubs,
wheel and tires is 35.2 lbs.
del
--- Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> wrote:
> <kirkh@unique-software.com>
>
> Del,
>
> Do you mean too light as in weight (balance reasons)
> or too light as
> in can take the abuse?
>
> I would like the address of the other company if you
> can find it.
>
> Kirk
>
>
> >
> >too light weight for a piet, the people at AS and S
> >will even tell you that over the phone. there is a
> >company in california that builds aluminum rims for
> >racing 4 wheelers that are inexpensive and strong.
> and
> >then use calipers and discs from a four wheeler. if
> >your interested I can find their address.
> >del
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Spoke hub motorcycle wheels |
What kind of motorcycle wheels are used with the spoke hub setup?
also, what size axle is used? I've been thinking about going that
route but I'm at a standstill on this. Thanks for any and all info
you guys can feed me on this.
Carl
ps,,, what kind and year bikes are they off of,,, who's used them
and what's their opinion on it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
I'm working on a 1984 EA81 Turbo does anyone know what water lines oil lines
and electrical wireing I don't need. What do I have to change to make it work
in my Piet. What type of prop drive should I use, and what gear ratio. Are
there any books out there that can help. Any and all suggestion would greatly
apprieciated,THANKS
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spoke hub motorcycle wheels |
Carl,
I'm interested in this also. Any people replying, please post ideas
and answers on the list.
Thanks
Kirk
>
>What kind of motorcycle wheels are used with the spoke hub setup?
>also, what size axle is used? I've been thinking about going that
>route but I'm at a standstill on this. Thanks for any and all info
>you guys can feed me on this.
>Carl
>ps,,, what kind and year bikes are they off of,,, who's used them
>and what's their opinion on it
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wire Wheels and hubs |
Carl & Kirk,
The subject of wire wheels and related hubs is a popular subject because
it sure makes a Piet look GREAT! And it seems it was on the "list" in the
last month or so, maybe two months at the most, just run a check on the
archives, there is a lot there.
One thing to keep in mind is that the hubs need to be wider than motorcycle
hubs to be better able to resist side loads. As with all such statements,
some
have used motorcycle hubs and had no problems. I guess the trick is to use
heavy duty hubs and spokes no matter what.
Since we had access to Cleveland hubs with disk brakes that's the way we
went, BUT, in the future, there will be a set of wire wheels made up. That's
for sure.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Wire Wheels and hubs |
Roger,, Thanks for the info. I went in to the archives and used the search
engine and got a bunch of info. I noticed a lot was mentioned about widening
the hubs. How does that work? Cut the hub in two and weld a spacer in the
middle? I want to use the inch and half axle so boring it out and useing a
bushing makes sense but the widening thing has got me. I'm useing the split
gear and plan on useing brakes to slow me down so I don't run into other
planes
while taxing. I understand a lot of the guys here are tired of this subject,
but
this group is such a wealth of info, I wanted to tap into all the knowledge
I
could get on this. I've gained so much from this list and I thank God I
found it.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rodger &
Betty Childs
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheels and hubs
<childsway@indian-creek.net>
Carl & Kirk,
The subject of wire wheels and related hubs is a popular subject because
it sure makes a Piet look GREAT! And it seems it was on the "list" in the
last month or so, maybe two months at the most, just run a check on the
archives, there is a lot there.
One thing to keep in mind is that the hubs need to be wider than motorcycle
hubs to be better able to resist side loads. As with all such statements,
some
have used motorcycle hubs and had no problems. I guess the trick is to use
heavy duty hubs and spokes no matter what.
Since we had access to Cleveland hubs with disk brakes that's the way we
went, BUT, in the future, there will be a set of wire wheels made up. That's
for sure.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chanter, Mike (M.F.)" <mchanter(at)jaguar.com> |
gary, i think theres a video available from a fellow that advertises in
sport aviation ( the EAA magazine ) its expensive ( around 90.00 ) but he
goes thru all the details plus the mods you need to make it aircraft
compatible. I'll take a look for it later today & resend you a note on it.
I'll see if an ad exists in the june issue.
Mike Chanter
Liaison Build & Development Resident
JAGUAR AJ V6 ENGINE PROGRAMS
POEE Bldg. - 21500 Oakwood Blvd.
Dearborn, Michigan 48121 - 2053
Ph. - (313) 33 - 72889
Fax - (313) 39 - 09146
Beeper - (313) 795 - 7515
-----Original Message-----
From: Flite407(at)aol.com [mailto:Flite407(at)aol.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Subaru Motor
I'm working on a 1984 EA81 Turbo does anyone know what water lines oil lines
and electrical wireing I don't need. What do I have to change to make it
work
in my Piet. What type of prop drive should I use, and what gear ratio. Are
there any books out there that can help. Any and all suggestion would
greatly
apprieciated,THANKS
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoke hub motorcycle wheels |
I saw an interesting wheel set-up on an SE-5a replica here in
Calgary. They used a set of cast aluminum wheels off of a racing
bike. They had 5 cast "spokes" that were a couple of inches thick
each. The outside of the wheels were then covered with fabric. THe whole
arrangement looked quite rugged and looked great.
On Tue, 30 May 2000, Carl Loar wrote:
>
> What kind of motorcycle wheels are used with the spoke hub setup?
> also, what size axle is used? I've been thinking about going that
> route but I'm at a standstill on this. Thanks for any and all info
> you guys can feed me on this.
> Carl
> ps,,, what kind and year bikes are they off of,,, who's used them
> and what's their opinion on it
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheels and hubs |
Carl, I looked at a set of wire wheels at Sun-n-Fun that a guy made. He
took a length of aircraft aluminum tubing for the hub shaft and welded two
round aluminum donut plates on each end. Then index drilled the holes for
the spokes and used a standard racing rim from a dirt bike. Took it to a
motorcycle shop and the 'laced' the rim for him. He used 'standard'
bearings rated for the loads. I gave him my email address and he was
supposed to email me with more info. If I get it, I'll pass it on to the
list.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheels and hubs
>
>Roger,, Thanks for the info. I went in to the archives and used the search
>engine and got a bunch of info. I noticed a lot was mentioned about
widening
>the hubs. How does that work? Cut the hub in two and weld a spacer in the
>middle? I want to use the inch and half axle so boring it out and useing a
>bushing makes sense but the widening thing has got me. I'm useing the split
>gear and plan on useing brakes to slow me down so I don't run into other
>planes
>while taxing. I understand a lot of the guys here are tired of this
subject,
>but
>this group is such a wealth of info, I wanted to tap into all the knowledge
>I
>could get on this. I've gained so much from this list and I thank God I
>found it.
>Carl
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rodger &
>Betty Childs
>Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 12:39 AM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire Wheels and hubs
>
>
><childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
>Carl & Kirk,
>
>The subject of wire wheels and related hubs is a popular subject because
>it sure makes a Piet look GREAT! And it seems it was on the "list" in the
>last month or so, maybe two months at the most, just run a check on the
>archives, there is a lot there.
>
>One thing to keep in mind is that the hubs need to be wider than motorcycle
>hubs to be better able to resist side loads. As with all such statements,
>some
>have used motorcycle hubs and had no problems. I guess the trick is to use
>heavy duty hubs and spokes no matter what.
>
>Since we had access to Cleveland hubs with disk brakes that's the way we
>went, BUT, in the future, there will be a set of wire wheels made up.
That's
>for sure.
>
>Rodger
>Piet in progress
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wire Wheels and Hubs |
Carl,
Very interesting problem there with widening the hub. I recall that
BPA (Buckeye Pietenpol Association) had a few newsletters on
this in which they basically had the center hub machined to accept
the desired axle diameter and the O.D. of each end was turned to
provide a shoulder so that a disk, which was drilled to accept the
spokes, would self locate on the hub and then be welded in place.
I had kept this information in a binder which seems to have fell into
one of the many Black Holes around my place. I'll have to really
search in the round abouts there of and find it, this is too important
of material to let get away from me. I'll get back to you.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoke wheels |
What about the wheels that the Nieuport builders are using. The Piet and
the Nieuport are probably close in size and weight. I think I saw a
supplier name somewhere in a link off the Noon Patrol page at:
http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoke wheels |
Actually, they are a lot lighter with a GROSS weight of only 550 lbs!
On Wed, 31 May 2000, Joe Krzes wrote:
>
> What about the wheels that the Nieuport builders are using. The Piet and
> the Nieuport are probably close in size and weight. I think I saw a
> supplier name somewhere in a link off the Noon Patrol page at:
> http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoke hub motorcycle wheels |
Carl,
I have some pics of the wheels/hubs that I made on:
http://www.aircamper.org/users/wevans/
The pics are in no special order, just look for " hub,wheel, spoke"
These fit the standard 1 1/2" axle. Just made it a little longer for brakes
They take a 3x18" tire which fits the plan dimensions of 24" OD real
nicely.( from JC Whitney $22.00 each)
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Loar <skycarl(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 8:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spoke hub motorcycle wheels
>
>What kind of motorcycle wheels are used with the spoke hub setup?
>also, what size axle is used? I've been thinking about going that
>route but I'm at a standstill on this. Thanks for any and all info
>you guys can feed me on this.
>Carl
>ps,,, what kind and year bikes are they off of,,, who's used them
>and what's their opinion on it
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spoke hub motorcycle wheels |
Issue #45 of the BPA Newsletter has the article (reprinted from
March 1990 Kitplanes) on brakeless wire wheels.
It calls for 2" X .120 4130 tubing for the hub and flanges cut from .090 4130 3.5"
in diameter. Bushings are turned for a press fit in the hub and a running
fit on the 1.5" axel.
McMaster-Carr sells oilite bushings the correct size for a couple of bucks each.
The hub tubes are 6" long and the outside face of the flange is set back 1/2" from
the end of the tubes.
The flanges are drilled to accommodate 40 spokes per wheel.
I found that motorcycle rims with 36 spokes were far more common.
I did find 40 spoke rims at the boneyard. Look for rims from Honda Goldwings or
the big Kawasakis.
Spokes are from Buchanan's. Search for their website.
This was a time consuming project that cost approx. $450.00
but when they were finished it was very satisfying.
Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis
>>> "Carl Loar" 05/30 6:42 PM >>>
What kind of motorcycle wheels are used with the spoke hub setup?
also, what size axle is used? I've been thinking about going that
route but I'm at a standstill on this. Thanks for any and all info
you guys can feed me on this.
Carl
ps,,, what kind and year bikes are they off of,,, who's used them
and what's their opinion on it
________________________________________________________________________________
This info on wire wheels first appeared in Kitplanes, March of 1990 on
pages 36 - 38. Grant MacLaren included it in the BPA newsletter back
in June '94 with further updates in Jan '95.
"Each hub's basic componet is a piece of 2" O.D. 4130 steel tube, 6"
long, with a wall thickness of .120". The disks to which the spokes are
terminated at the hub are also made of 4130. They are 3.5" in diameter,
.090" thick, with their centers cut out to fit snugly over the steel tube.
Each wheel has forty spokes so twenty spoke holes are drilled in each
disk. The diameter of these holes is determined by the size of spokes
used on the wheels. The hub's spoke holes are equally spaced around
a circle 3" in diameter, concentric with the disk.
With the tubes and disks finished to this stage, they are joined by
heli-arc welding. The outer faces of the disks are located one-half
inch back from the ends of the 6" long tubes. It is very important that
the disks be welded with their spoke holes alternately spaced. In other
words, the disks do not have their spoke holes aligned. The center of
of a hole in one disk is half way between the center of two holes in the
wheel's other disk.
When the disks have been properly located and welded to the tubes,
the hubs are chucked in a lathe, then carefully bored clean and round
to receive pressed-in bushings. The bushings are bronze, at least one
inch long, and made for a .001" to .002" interference fit in the tubes.
A bushing is then pressed into each end of each tube. The insides of
the installed and bored bushings should have about a .002" to .003"
running fit on the axle."
Next is to add brass grease fittings; "...they're readily available from
any good Ford restorer's parts house. Snyder's Antique Auto Parts,
12925 Woodworth Rd. Rt. 156, New Springfield, OH 44443, is one
of the best. Ask for their Model "T" Ford grease cup replica. These
grease fittings are joined to the hubs with 1/8" pipe threads."
The next step is to obtain wheel rims, 21" for 3.25" to 4.10" tires are
best. Use a 21x3 tire as it looks proportionally better and has no
problem mounting on the rim.
Use 9 gauge spokes and nipples. Since no spoke length was given,
a good shop would custom make them using rolled threads. Do not
have the threads cut as they are weaker than rolled threads.
Buchanan's Frame Shop, 629 East Garvey Ave, Monterey Park,
Calif. 91754. (818-280-4003) can do the lacing and truing work as
could any good motorcycle shop.
If you go with the alloy rims, they are expensive. You could go with a
steel rim for about half the cost. Weight will be about 15 lbs alloy rim,
and about 19 lbs metal rim, that's with wire wheels, tubes, and tires
complete.
Hope this helps.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I had the wheel at Sun n Fun . I built it myself from a Yamaha 650 19"
wheel. Splitting the casing and insertingthe spacer gave me a 7" wide
wheel. My appologies to anyone who I promised information to. Work Has
been a killer lately. For anyone who wants details, I will send photos and
details if you will send me addresses. The wheels are on the axel now and
I may put the tires on tonight yet. I did my own spoke lacing and all. I
have about $225 invested including wheels, spokes , new tubes and axel .
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheels and hubs |
In a message dated 05/31/2000 6:14:51 AM Central Daylight Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
<< understand a lot of the guys here are tired of this subject,
but
this group is such a wealth of info, I wanted to tap into all the knowledge
I
could get on this. I've gained so much from this list and I thank God I
found it.
Carl >>
Carl...Don't worry about that....most any of the gang will be happy to talk
to you on this or other subjects...just pick up their e-mail address and talk
to them off of the list. Give me a call and I'll tell you how I handled my
wire wheels Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | props Franklin vs. Continental |
Can anyone tell me if Franklin and early continental prop flange
dimensions are the same. I have a 80 hp Franklin that I'm overhauling
for the Peit that I,m building.I saw a photo in the image library of
an A-65 and the flange and snout look very similar, I guess what I
need is the bolt circle and snout diameters of the A-65. This list is
a great thing, I've learned a lot just by reading in on the questions
and answers.
Thanks-Ed Grentzer
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
there have been some who have moved the engine forward
so that you don,t have to move the wing so far back.
but how far forward is a good question. I would try to
calculate it first and then make up a prototype mount
from conduit and then fine tune it with spacers until
you get it where its right. then build the permanant
mount.
--- dpilot wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely NONE.
> Move your wing to get the proper CG!
>
> JimV.
>
>
> --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > vistin(at)juno.com
> >
> > When I start back on my piet, (moved into new
> home)
> > I am going too start
> > making plans for the motor mount. My question is
> the
> > soob is underweight
> > compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How far
> > forward from the fire
> > wall should I design the motor mount for best
> weight
> > distribution.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steve
> >
> > Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
> >
> > GN-1--<(next project).
> >
> > IHA #6
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
> Messenger.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Wheels and hubs |
Carl,
I read your note And Don's response and it got me to thinking that even
when a subject that has been discussed before comes up again, it is a
reminder to me of something that I want or need to do - so keep bringing up
any question that you have, someone else new needs to know it, and some of
us need to hear it again! Sometimes these notes motivate me and make me itch
to get back into the shop. I've been dormant for a few months now, and it's
about time to get back to it!
Thanks!
Gary Meadows
(back to elevators.....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Varnish |
Hey Guys
Just wondering what would be the best varnish to use on the airframe is there
one thats best should I use two part epoxy varnish or what.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | props Franklin vs. Continental |
I had a Franklin 90, and the A-65 does not match.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
GRENTZER
Subject: Pietenpol-List: props Franklin vs. Continental
Can anyone tell me if Franklin and early continental prop flange
dimensions are the same. I have a 80 hp Franklin that I'm overhauling
for the Peit that I,m building.I saw a photo in the image library of
an A-65 and the flange and snout look very similar, I guess what I
need is the bolt circle and snout diameters of the A-65. This list is
a great thing, I've learned a lot just by reading in on the questions
and answers.
Thanks-Ed Grentzer
Palm Harbor Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | props Franklin vs. Continental |
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: props Franklin vs. Continental
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 09:46:33 -0600
>
>
>I had a Franklin 90, and the A-65 does not match.
>
>Steve E.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
>GRENTZER
>Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:09 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: props Franklin vs. Continental
>
>
>
>
> Can anyone tell me if Franklin and early continental prop flange
> dimensions are the same. I have a 80 hp Franklin that I'm overhauling
> for the Peit that I,m building.I saw a photo in the image library of
> an A-65 and the flange and snout look very similar, I guess what I
> need is the bolt circle and snout diameters of the A-65. This list is
> a great thing, I've learned a lot just by reading in on the questions
> and answers.
> Thanks-Ed Grentzer
> Palm Harbor Fl.
>
>
>Thanks Steve I guess I'll have to buy a new prop as the chances of finding
>a used Franklin prop is probably slim & none. Also Sensenich
Prop company here in Fl. lists a wood prop for the A-65 Pietenpol I
was kinda hoping I might be able to use one of theirs.Thanks again for the
info.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Varnish |
Uh-oh...This will certainly bring out some interesting responces ;-)
First, whatever you use has to be compatible with your covering
system...at least on the parts where the fabric contacts the wood. Barring
that, your choices are basically spar varnish, one part polyeurathane
finish, two part polyeurathane (Stits makes some) and epoxy resign.
Generally speaking, the one part polyeurathane is a good, cost effective,
protective coating for interior areas not in contact with the fabric.
Two-part is better, but a lot more expensive. Fortunately, AFS, the
covering system I used, is compatible with the one part polys as it does
not use the harsh solvents found in other covering systems. Spar varnish
is also good but it should include a fungicide. Many older aircraft (Cub,
Aeronca, T'Craft) used spar varnish on wooden parts and they have survived
for decades.
Epoxy resigns such as West Systems stuff is also good, and expensive. It
generally requires a UV protective coating on top if it's exposed to UV
rays. The UV coat in your fabric system is adequate to protect epoxy
coated wooden structures underneath. I recently built a cedar stripper
canoe coated in and out with West Systems epoxy glass cloth. It's held up
really well and the stuff is really nice to work with when you use the
available pumps. It also makes a fantastic wood glue as it's thin enough
to really soak into the wood fibers. It tested quite well as it always
broke away from the joint. It's nice to have a "one glue does it all"
product.
Hope this helps.
Ken
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 Flite407(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Guys
> Just wondering what would be the best varnish to use on the airframe is there
> one thats best should I use two part epoxy varnish or what.
> Gary
> New Orleans
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | props Franklin vs. Continental |
> >Thanks Steve I guess I'll have to buy a new prop as the chances of finding
> >a used Franklin prop is probably slim & none. Also Sensenich
> Prop company here in Fl. lists a wood prop for the A-65 Pietenpol I
> was kinda hoping I might be able to use one of theirs.Thanks again for the
> info.
Sensenich can make a wooden porp for the Franklin at about the same price
as the Cont. I had a quote from them for a prop for my Franklin 4A-235
last year. Of course, you will need a crush plate for the front of the
prop if you go with a wooden one, but they can supply that too. Tell them
what engine, max RPM and plane you have as well as the approximate cruise
speed, climb speed and climb rate, and they can come up with an
appropriate custom prop. Since most of thier props are made as needed,
there is no price penalty for a custom one.
Also, if the classic look is not important, Ivo also makes a hub that will
allow you to mount thier prop to your engine. They use modern-looking
carbon fibre blades (2-6 blades depending on the power) mounted to a hub
that provides easy ground adjustability. They even have an electric,
in-flight adjustable hub that utilizes the same blades. I think thier prop
is around the $700-$800 for a ground adjustable model.
I ended up with a metal McCaulley Clip-Tip that came with my engine. It
was used and an additional $600 USD. Check out Avweb, Barnstormers and
Wings On-Line for used props.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | props Franklin vs. Continental |
>From: Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: props Franklin vs. Continental
>Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:33:57 -0600 (MDT)
>
>
> > >Thanks Steve I guess I'll have to buy a new prop as the chances of
>finding
> > >a used Franklin prop is probably slim & none. Also Sensenich
> > Prop company here in Fl. lists a wood prop for the A-65 Pietenpol I
> > was kinda hoping I might be able to use one of theirs.Thanks again for
>the
> > info.
>
>Sensenich can make a wooden porp for the Franklin at about the same price
>as the Cont. I had a quote from them for a prop for my Franklin 4A-235
>last year. Of course, you will need a crush plate for the front of the
>prop if you go with a wooden one, but they can supply that too. Tell them
>what engine, max RPM and plane you have as well as the approximate cruise
>speed, climb speed and climb rate, and they can come up with an
>appropriate custom prop. Since most of thier props are made as needed,
>there is no price penalty for a custom one.
>
>Also, if the classic look is not important, Ivo also makes a hub that will
>allow you to mount thier prop to your engine. They use modern-looking
>carbon fibre blades (2-6 blades depending on the power) mounted to a hub
>that provides easy ground adjustability. They even have an electric,
>in-flight adjustable hub that utilizes the same blades. I think thier prop
>is around the $700-$800 for a ground adjustable model.
>
>I ended up with a metal McCaulley Clip-Tip that came with my engine. It
>was used and an additional $600 USD. Check out Avweb, Barnstormers and
>Wings On-Line for used props.
>
>Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
>Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
><http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
>
>
> Thanks for the prop info ken. I didn,t realise Sensenich
would custom build a prop as their web site listed props by
application. I'll probably go with their wood prop as their
shop is only about 30 miles from me. In mean while I'll keep
an eye out for a good used one.Thanks again--Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Mr. Pietenpol said that the ship would not come out of
a slip quickly when landing with the engine moment arm
extended. It would be embarrassing to slip into the
ground.
JimV.
--- del magsam wrote:
>
>
> there have been some who have moved the engine
> forward
> so that you don,t have to move the wing so far back.
> but how far forward is a good question. I would try
> to
> calculate it first and then make up a prototype
> mount
> from conduit and then fine tune it with spacers
> until
> you get it where its right. then build the permanant
> mount.
> --- dpilot wrote:
> >
> >
> > Absolutely NONE.
> > Move your wing to get the proper CG!
> >
> > JimV.
> >
> >
> > --- vistin(at)juno.com wrote:
> > > vistin(at)juno.com
> > >
> > > When I start back on my piet, (moved into new
> > home)
> > > I am going too start
> > > making plans for the motor mount. My question is
> > the
> > > soob is underweight
> > > compared too the "A" engine by 50lb or so. How
> far
> > > forward from the fire
> > > wall should I design the motor mount for best
> > weight
> > > distribution.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > Steve W - Pietenpol in construction!
> > >
> > > GN-1--<(next project).
> > >
> > > IHA #6
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > through
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >
> > > Matronics!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with
> Yahoo!
> > Messenger.
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
> Messenger.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Varnish |
In a message dated 6/1/00 9:06:50 AM Central Daylight Time, Flite407(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Hey Guys
Just wondering what would be the best varnish to use on the airframe is
there
one thats best should I use two part epoxy varnish or what.
Gary
New Orleans >>
We used 'Ace' Oil Based Spar Varnish - Clear Gloss, p/n ACE 16375, for the
entire airframe. It took about 5 qts. for the wing, and maybe 3 qts for the
fuselage, to apply two brushed coats.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Powerplant |
Hi,
One more Gary,
Saludos
Gary Gower
Ramsey Bathtub
Guadalajara, Mexico
--- Gary Meadows wrote:
>
>
> Hey Gary,
>
> Another Gary here! You should be okay with that
> HP. There are folks on the
> list who are running O-200 Continentals! I plan on
> at least a C85 myself.
> Power is Goooooood!
>
> Gary Meadows
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Varnish |
Mr. Pietenpol sprayed his wood with clear nitrate dope
He said it was covered up anyhow.
Last as long as him.
And they did!!!
JimV.
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/1/00 9:06:50 AM Central
> Daylight Time, Flite407(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Hey Guys
> Just wondering what would be the best varnish to
> use on the airframe is
> there
> one thats best should I use two part epoxy varnish
> or what.
> Gary
> New Orleans >>
>
> We used 'Ace' Oil Based Spar Varnish - Clear Gloss,
> p/n ACE 16375, for the
> entire airframe. It took about 5 qts. for the wing,
> and maybe 3 qts for the
> fuselage, to apply two brushed coats.
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dpilot <dpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Powerplant |
Less weight is better.
Mine weighed 610 #
JimV.
--- Gary Gower wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> One more Gary,
>
> Saludos
>
> Gary Gower
> Ramsey Bathtub
> Guadalajara, Mexico
> --- Gary Meadows wrote:
> Meadows"
> >
> >
> > Hey Gary,
> >
> > Another Gary here! You should be okay with that
> > HP. There are folks on the
> > list who are running O-200 Continentals! I plan on
> > at least a C85 myself.
> > Power is Goooooood!
> >
> > Gary Meadows
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
> http://photos.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bozeman" <rte(at)ipa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Powerplant |
I've got 125 HP 0-290G it flys great even on those really hot days
on my Piet. I've got 111 hrs TT now
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Powerplant
>
>Hi,
>
>One more Gary,
>
>Saludos
>
>Gary Gower
>Ramsey Bathtub
>Guadalajara, Mexico
>--- Gary Meadows wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Gary,
>>
>> Another Gary here! You should be okay with that
>> HP. There are folks on the
>> list who are running O-200 Continentals! I plan on
>> at least a C85 myself.
>> Power is Goooooood!
>>
>> Gary Meadows
>>
>>
>>
>> through
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>> Matronics!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
>http://photos.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Piet Baseball Cap info (2nd Run) |
Last year I produced a baseball cap with the Piet logo to pay for my trip to
the 70th anniversary of the piet at Osh and Brodhead. I never thought I
would make the trip again, but due to a business trip in Illinois during the
same week I have decided to attend Broahead 2000! If there is interest I
will be making the Piet hats available again. The Hat info follows. If
your interested drop me a note at Steve(at)byu.edu.
Steve E.
Now if I could figure out how to get a family of seven out their in a piet!
Subject: Hat info
http://www.aircamper.org/users/Stevee/pietenpol_baseball_cap_order_pag.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hand Carved Props for the Piet |
Has anyone else thought about carving their own prop?
Orrin Hoopman has plans available for one that would
fit the Ford Model A. We don't have the plans yet, but
it seems like a neat idea, saving $600 (or so) carving
your own and having an original Piet artifact.
Of course a prop duplicator carving machine would have
to be made as well as a pattern too. Another chance to
use the hand held router arises.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hand Carved Props for the Piet |
Rodger
I've thought about doing it myself let me know what you think about the plans
and if you think it's worth the trouble.
Gary
Mandeville La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hand Carved Props for the Piet |
I'm carving my prop, to the Orin Hooperman plans. My first attempt was for
practice, and will have a clock in it. N E S W instead of 12 3 6 9.
It's not all that difficult, just time consumeing, if ya have the plans, as
well as the book 'Propeller Making for the Amateur', by Eric Clutton. Its a
small paperback, with only about 55 pages. It's available from the EAA.
I'm planning on eventually carving a True Scimitar Prop, which is also called
out in the book.
Chuck
Wing mounted, assembleing the Model A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Builders/Flyers in No. Calif. |
Arre there any folks who are either in the process of building or have a
completed an Aircaamper in the area around Sacramento - Modesto
California. Before I jump into this thing with both feet, I'd like to
speak with and learn from someone who's either in the process or has
completed one.
Thanks
Ron Butcher - Turlock, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Dayton <dayton(at)netwalk.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/04/00 |
> It's not all that difficult, just time consumeing, if ya have the plans, as
> well as the book 'Propeller Making for the Amateur', by Eric Clutton. Its a
> small paperback, with only about 55 pages. It's available from the EAA.
I tried to obtain this book from EAA a year or so ago. They didn't have it. Has
anyone purchased one from
recently? Is there another source?
I've got a 60x29 on my Limbach 2L and it's a little overpropped. I've been playing
with the idea of trying to
change the pitch, shorten it or make a new prop. Can anyone tell me how hard it
is
to change the pitch or
shorten a prop (I guess I could try a groundstrike;-)?
Dean Dayton - Horizon 2 N7167S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 06/04/00 |
I was at the EAA museum last week and several copies of Eric Clutton's book were
on the bookshelf.
Greg Cardinal
'Propeller Making for the Amateur', by Eric Clutton. Its a
> small paperback, with only about 55 pages. It's available from the EAA.
I tried to obtain this book from EAA a year or so ago. They didn't have it. Has
anyone purchased one from
recently? Is there another source?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Baseball Cap info (2nd Run) |
Simple, you'll have to build a miniature "troop carrier" glider to tow
behind the Piet.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
> Now if I could figure out how to get a family of seven out their in a piet!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Builders/Flyers in No. Calif. |
In a message dated 06/05/2000 12:09:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
rbutch(at)inreach.com writes:
<<
Arre there any folks who are either in the process of building or have a
completed an Aircaamper in the area around Sacramento - Modesto
California >>
Ron on my last trip to the Bay area I spotted a Piet in the Hiller Museum at
San Carlos. Bet they would give you some help. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mary ellen styne" <aeroc398(at)hpnc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
> Hey Dick.
>
> I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this is the
one
> with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder? Therefore the
> angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant. Looks to
> me like there are three alternatives.
>
> 1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the rudder
> cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere with
straight
> line cable routing).
>
> 2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose (most info
> says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees cable
> deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
>
> 3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I think
the
> structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in the aft
> fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar may put a
> fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could adjust the
> fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
>
> You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he
knows....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Eric Clutton's prop book |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Does the EAA still sell Cluttons' book?
When I purchased two copies of it a little over a year ago, I had the
following experience (this is an approximation, because I do not remember
the details exactly).
I called the 800 number for book orders. They told me they did not have
it. So then I had them transfer me to the library to see if it would be
possible to get a photocopied version, or at least get enough info about
the author that I might be able to find a source for the book. The lady
in the library knew exactly what book I was talking about and called back
to the bookstore for me. She sent someone there looking, and they found
several copies of it. It is a good little book that is well worth the
money.
It is evidently no longer listed in their computer, but if you can find
the right person, they probably still have copies around.
Also, Howard Henderson wrote an article for Grant MacLaren about the
procedure to carve the props that he used on his beautiful piet. He took
the instructions from Bernard and modified and explained them. Along
with the book by Clutton, it makes the process fairly clear and
understandable. Grant was writing a book all about Bernard and the
Pietenpol airplanes, and this constituted one chapter of the (hopefully)
forthcoming book. He was selling copies of that chapter alone . If you
can get ahold of him, I'm sure he probably still has them available.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Hi Bert,
I got the controll thing figured out. I put a pulley below the seat on each
side. It's about a 15 degree angle change and I'll use some grommets to
lead the cables along the fuse. I nicropressed the tail wheel cables to the
rudder cable too.
Thanks
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "mary ellen styne" <aeroc398(at)hpnc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
>
> >
> > Hey Dick.
> >
> > I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this is the
> one
> > with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder? Therefore the
> > angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant. Looks
to
> > me like there are three alternatives.
> >
> > 1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the rudder
> > cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere with
> straight
> > line cable routing).
> >
> > 2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose (most
info
> > says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees cable
> > deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
> >
> > 3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I think
> the
> > structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in the
aft
> > fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar may put
a
> > fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could adjust
the
> > fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
> >
> > You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he
> knows....
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eric Clutton's prop book |
The EAA bookstore had at least three copies on the shelf as
recently as two weeks ago.
Greg Cardinal
>>> John E Fay 06/06 1:46 PM >>>
Does the EAA still sell Cluttons' book?
When I purchased two copies of it a little over a year ago, I had the
following experience (this is an approximation, because I do not remember
the details exactly).
I called the 800 number for book orders. They told me they did not have
it. So then I had them transfer me to the library to see if it would be
possible to get a photocopied version, or at least get enough info about
the author that I might be able to find a source for the book. The lady
in the library knew exactly what book I was talking about and called back
to the bookstore for me. She sent someone there looking, and they found
several copies of it. It is a good little book that is well worth the
money.
It is evidently no longer listed in their computer, but if you can find
the right person, they probably still have copies around.
Also, Howard Henderson wrote an article for Grant MacLaren about the
procedure to carve the props that he used on his beautiful piet. He took
the instructions from Bernard and modified and explained them. Along
with the book by Clutton, it makes the process fairly clear and
understandable. Grant was writing a book all about Bernard and the
Pietenpol airplanes, and this constituted one chapter of the (hopefully)
forthcoming book. He was selling copies of that chapter alone . If you
can get ahold of him, I'm sure he probably still has them available.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Group,
OK, I'm gonna ask the naive question. Why not move the rudder control horn
further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal stabilizer
and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty simply
fixed by some minor design changes? I can't think of any examples, but I'm
sure some other designs must use this approach.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
>
> Hi Bert,
> I got the controll thing figured out. I put a pulley below the seat on
each
> side. It's about a 15 degree angle change and I'll use some grommets to
> lead the cables along the fuse. I nicropressed the tail wheel cables to
the
> rudder cable too.
> Thanks
> Dick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mary ellen styne" <aeroc398(at)hpnc.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 12:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hey Dick.
> > >
> > > I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this is
the
> > one
> > > with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder? Therefore
the
> > > angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant.
Looks
> to
> > > me like there are three alternatives.
> > >
> > > 1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the
rudder
> > > cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere with
> > straight
> > > line cable routing).
> > >
> > > 2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose (most
> info
> > > says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees cable
> > > deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
> > >
> > > 3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I
think
> > the
> > > structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in
the
> aft
> > > fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar may
put
> a
> > > fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could
adjust
> the
> > > fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
> > >
> > > You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he
> > knows....
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
This is exactly what the GN-1 design version does.
Warren
"mboynton(at)excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP for ;"
wrote:
>
> Group,
>
> OK, I'm gonna ask the naive question. Why not move the rudder control horn
> further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal stabilizer
> and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty simply
> fixed by some minor design changes? I can't think of any examples, but I'm
> sure some other designs must use this approach.
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Bert,
> > I got the controll thing figured out. I put a pulley below the seat on
> each
> > side. It's about a 15 degree angle change and I'll use some grommets to
> > lead the cables along the fuse. I nicropressed the tail wheel cables to
> the
> > rudder cable too.
> > Thanks
> > Dick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mary ellen styne" <aeroc398(at)hpnc.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 12:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > Hey Dick.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this is
> the
> > > one
> > > > with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder? Therefore
> the
> > > > angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant.
> Looks
> > to
> > > > me like there are three alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > 1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the
> rudder
> > > > cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere with
> > > straight
> > > > line cable routing).
> > > >
> > > > 2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose (most
> > info
> > > > says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees cable
> > > > deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
> > > >
> > > > 3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I
> think
> > > the
> > > > structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in
> the
> > aft
> > > > fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar may
> put
> > a
> > > > fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could
> adjust
> > the
> > > > fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
> > > >
> > > > You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he
> > > knows....
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
As a follow-up to my previous message:
I just opened up Aircamper.org. On the opening page is a picture of a
beautiful red and cream, Ford powered Air Camper. Guess where the rudder
control horn is located. Does anyone know who built that plane? I'd like
to ask what accompanying design changes (if any) were made.
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP for
;
>
> Group,
>
> OK, I'm gonna ask the naive question. Why not move the rudder control
horn
> further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal stabilizer
> and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty
simply
> fixed by some minor design changes? I can't think of any examples, but
I'm
> sure some other designs must use this approach.
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Hi Bert,
> > I got the controll thing figured out. I put a pulley below the seat
on
> each
> > side. It's about a 15 degree angle change and I'll use some grommets
to
> > lead the cables along the fuse. I nicropressed the tail wheel cables
to
> the
> > rudder cable too.
> > Thanks
> > Dick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mary ellen styne" <aeroc398(at)hpnc.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 12:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 9:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
> > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > Hey Dick.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not up on the Piet's rudder control very much. I guess this
is
> the
> > > one
> > > > with the rudder horn mounted about midway up the rudder?
Therefore
> the
> > > > angle the cable makes as it clears the rear seat is significant.
> Looks
> > to
> > > > me like there are three alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > 1) mount small pulleys just below the rear seat back to guide the
> rudder
> > > > cable back to the horn (that is if no structure will interfere
with
> > > straight
> > > > line cable routing).
> > > >
> > > > 2) mount fairleads at the same location for the same puprpose
(most
> > info
> > > > says that fairleads should not be used for more than 15 degrees
cable
> > > > deflection) 1/4 in micarta works great for these.
> > > >
> > > > 3) or route cables ABOVE the seat toward the rudder horn (again I
> think
> > > the
> > > > structural parts willplay a big role in how you rout the cables in
> the
> > aft
> > > > fuse . And also, the angle the cable attaches to the rudder bar
may
> put
> > a
> > > > fairly high load on the rudder bar pivot point maybe you could
> adjust
> > the
> > > > fulcrum angle of the pivot point to compensate.
> > > >
> > > > You may want to contact Charlie Rubeck and ask him??? I betcha he
> > > knows....
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
>
>
>
>
>
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
In a message dated 6/7/00 9:48:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com writes:
<< Why not move the rudder control horn
further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal stabilizer
and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty simply
fixed by some minor design changes? >>
No doubt, Bernard considered all possible locations for the rudder horn. I
can see several reasons to leave the horn in the plans location. It is
close to one of the hinges, which eliminates flex in that portion of the
rudder. Another reason is that if the horn is lowered, there is a much
greater possibility of flutter, because so much of a flexing can occur above
the horn. Another reason is the plane should be built to the plans.
Install the rudder cables the way the plans call for it, and allow the wood
be the fairlead, to change the direction of the cable. It works very well
this way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
>In a message dated 6/7/00 9:48:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
>pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com writes:
>
><< Why not move the rudder control horn
> further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal stabilizer
> and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty simply
> fixed by some minor design changes? >>
Why not? I did & it has been working, without problems, for 12 years.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Mike,
Thanks for the info. Did you have to make any related structural changes?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 3:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: controll cables
>
>
> >
> >In a message dated 6/7/00 9:48:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
> >pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com writes:
> >
> ><< Why not move the rudder control horn
> > further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal
stabilizer
> > and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty
simply
> > fixed by some minor design changes? >>
>
>
> Why not? I did & it has been working, without problems, for 12 years.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
>
>
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly-in |
To Anyone interested,
The Pietenpol Flyin at Brussels, Ontario is being held on the 10th June,
2000. This week-end.
Contact jlarm(at)wcl.on.ca (Jim Armstrong)
Domenic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
here is a place that carries Eric Cluttons book,,, they have it in stock for
10 bucks
http://www.wood-carver.com/store.html
I don't know why but I just ordered one( another fine mess you
guys have gotten me into :)
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling landing gear fittings |
Does anyone have a good system for drilling the fittings that the
landing gear "V" bolts too. They must be inline and have the gear swing at
the right angle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
>Mike,
>
>Thanks for the info. Did you have to make any related structural changes?
>
>Mark Boynton
>Gilbert, AZ
>>> ><< Why not move the rudder control horn
>> > further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal
>stabilizer
>> > and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty
>simply
>> > fixed by some minor design changes? >>
>>
>>
>> Why not? I did & it has been working, without problems, for 12 years.
>>
>> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
No, no major changes. I placed an al plate a the second station (If I
remember right) fwd of the stern post, cut two slots & mounted a pully in
each slot to fairlead the cables.The pullys were slanted toward the
centerline about 45 deg.That can be worked out with a dummy installation.
Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: controll cables |
Thanks, Mike.
Mark
>
>
> >Mike,
> >
> >Thanks for the info. Did you have to make any related structural
changes?
> >
> >Mark Boynton
> >Gilbert, AZ
> >>> ><< Why not move the rudder control horn
> >> > further down the rudder, say below the level of the horizontal
> >stabilizer
> >> > and elevator? Would this pose any problems that couldn't be pretty
> >simply
> >> > fixed by some minor design changes? >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Why not? I did & it has been working, without problems, for 12 years.
> >>
> >> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
> No, no major changes. I placed an al plate a the second station (If I
> remember right) fwd of the stern post, cut two slots & mounted a pully in
> each slot to fairlead the cables.The pullys were slanted toward the
> centerline about 45 deg.That can be worked out with a dummy installation.
>
> Mike B Piet N 687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
>
>
>
Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Drilling landing gear fittings |
When drilling the round stock hinge pieces with the holes offset as per
the plans, make sure to use a drill press. I got a long quarter inch rod
and ran it thru the top hinges first and put it up against the top plates
to get the amount to grind off. After I finally got those lined up I tack
welded them. Then I put the plates back on the fuse I used the rod again
to line up the lower hinges, grinding them till they line up. Finally I
layed the V up with all the hinges in place, ground on that till it fit
and marked where the lower hinges went. Then I tack welded those to the V
( I tack welded them with the rod running thru all four hinges while it was
jigged so they wouldn't move ) if the tack weld is good, you should be able
to make minor adjustments due to heat movement.
I hope this helped,, the gear is a real &*$
$&
&% sometimes.
I just put on my axles yesterday but that's a different story.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drilling landing gear fittings
Does anyone have a good system for drilling the fittings that the
landing gear "V" bolts too. They must be inline and have the gear swing at
the right angle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
Parting out my GN-1 Aircamper. Can't afford 2 airplanes.
Selling any part or all to someone who needs very good parts.
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell) |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Aircamper |
Rich wrote:
>
> Parting out my GN-1 Aircamper. Can't afford 2 airplanes.
> Selling any part or all to someone who needs very good parts.
> Rich
>
Hi rich send phone # so I can talk about gn1 parts david kowell my
#8045855287 if you want to call
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich <houndsfour(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Aircamper |
Hi David,
I'll call on Monday night if thats ok. Were are you located?
What are you looking for in the way of parts. I have the whole airplane
right now. I would like to see someone reassamble her.
Rich
David Kowell wrote:
>
> Rich wrote:
>
> >
> > Parting out my GN-1 Aircamper. Can't afford 2 airplanes.
> > Selling any part or all to someone who needs very good parts.
> > Rich
> >
>
> Hi rich send phone # so I can talk about gn1 parts david kowell my
> #8045855287 if you want to call
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Aircamper |
In a message dated 6/11/2000 11:29:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
houndsfour(at)mediaone.net writes:
<< Were are you located? >>
I am in Houston What all do you have for GN1?
John Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
I am trying to figure some thing out and was hoping some of you may have
thought of this before and can help me out.
Here is the problem: I am going to use an air cooled engine in my Piet.
So naturally I figured I was going to build the long fuselage because
that is why it was designed, at least that is what I was told. Any way
when I was looking at the plans I noticed that the majority of extra
length, 6 of the 9 inches, was added to the aft end of the fuselage.
My question is, why when taking weight out of the noes, ie lighter weight
engine, did BHP add the length to the aft end of the fuselage.
Lengthening the tail is like adding weight to the tail. Lengthening the
fuselage in front of CG would make more sense. I know that it has been
said on this list that " if you lengthen the noes the plane will not
recover from a slip as easily". But the tried and true method of getting
the proper CG is to move the wing back and in affect making the noes
longer and the tail shorter. There are several short fuselage Piets
flying with air cooled engines and there wings are back as much as 6"
from where the plans show it. To the best of my knowledge these planes
fly fine, Mike Cuy's for one. To add to this Pietenpols "Last original"
has a long fuselage and it's wing is slanted back 3 inches from the plans
location, making the noes that much longer.
So here is what I would like to do if you have not guessed all ready, I
do not want to add the last 6 inches to the long fuselage. Can any one
talk me into keeping it or into cutting it out. I know DON'T CHANGE THE
PLANS, but heck even BHP knew you had to change things or else he never
would have designed the long fuselage in the first place.
Im on the fence I need some help, do I keep it or cut it out?
Thanks
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long Fuselage |
>
I was going to build the long fuselage . Any way
>when I was looking at the plans I noticed that the majority of extra
>length, 6 of the 9 inches, was added to the aft end of the fuselage.
>
>talk me into keeping it or into cutting it out. >
>Im on the fence I need some help, do I keep it or cut it out?
>
>Thanks
>Chris
>Sacramento, CA
Here's the long & short of it:
I believe the long fuselage was drawn for the corvair engine.
The extra length was added to the cockpit aera.
The long fuselage tends to be tail heavy no matter what engine one uses.
This is aggrevated as the weight of the engine goes down ( 65 cont ) and/or
the weight of the pilot goes up. This is corrected by moving the wing back
and adding weight foward e.g. metal prop.
If you do not want to add the extra length to the fuselage, build the short
fuselage.You can use an air cooled engine-no problem.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Summer Morning Flight.... |
Just a note to those still working hard on their dream Piet,
I woke up this morning to our hungry 5 month old and made him a bottle a
5:30am. The day dawn was breaking and the morning light was beginning to
turn the sky gray-blue. Not a cloud in site. I had to make a trip to the
airport anyway to drop off my canoe, so I got dressed and headed south 13
miles to Springville in our Suburban with the 17' canoe strapped to the top.
I rolled the piet out on the ramp as the first rays of sun were hitting the
beacon tower. There is a brand new Chevron windsock at the top and it
glowed in the morning sun. I buttoned up my flannel shirt right to the neck
and flipped the prop through a couple times. Gas on, throttle cracked,
altimeter set, mags to the left, dodge the strut and I find myself choked up
on the Sensenich. I pause for just one second at enjoy the silence that I'm
about to disturb. Heh heh. Where shall I go today?...
Swing my right leg back and heave down on the prop from the 10 o' clock,
I'm back in the thirties. The Continental 65 churns the air, slapping the
canyon breeze. I just love that sound. Ear plugs in, Helmet on and trundle
into the cockpit. The sunshine is blinding though perforated by the prop.
I give it a bit of throttle just to cut the dizzying hypnosis. Seat belt
on. Goggles on, check the oil pressure, start the stopwatch. Hey someone
dropped of a Malibu on the ramp since I was here last. A tailwind scoots me
along my mile plus journey to the other end of 30. I wonder if that red
tail fox is out again this morning. Mag check, carb heat check. No one
else in the air, I taxi out on 12 looking straight up Spanish Fork Canyon.
The wind is stronger out in the open. Throttle forward to the stop. Heh,
no real change in ground speed, but the tail wants to come up. Nice. I'm
off way before the first set of VASI lights. 500' before the first hanger
comes underwing and I head south. I-15 rolls south and I pick my
speedometer. A cement truck. The funny kind that have the barrels that
dump out over the cab. Other cars pass him, they must be speeding! No
doubt.
Spring Lake is still in the shadow of Mt. Nebo, but I am determined to wake
up a co-worker living there. enroute is Philips Sod Farm. I haven't landed
there for almost a year. Wonder if I'm still welcome... Low pass and a
wing waggle to the early rising sod cutters indicate that I am. Maybe next
time, looks like I'd be stuck there all morning giving rides if I touch
down. Climbing again, circle twice over Jim's house, neighbor waves, Jim
must be in the shower. Time to head home. Low pass going the other way
down the sod strip and a sharp pull up at the end for fun. There is no wind
in the valley, away from the mouth of the canyon. Did you smell that dairy
farm? North through the empty practice area getting bored with the beauty,
I wing over to the left and then to the right. A plodding single engine
Cessna 1500' above heading south. How I love being bored.
Back in the 'pattern' I'm alone again. I pretend I have a radio and
announce downwind to the birds and make a tight pattern over midfield. Arch
around base to final killing some altitude, everything happening so slowly,
and even slower as I roll out to final. My friend the morning canyon wind
is still dumping air into the valley. Still at 400' and 1/4 mile I see a
185 and a Cherokee taxing out. They must be going together, cause the
airport just isn't busy enough to have two planes heading out at the same
time otherwise. I show off a bit and extend my landing, and touched down at
a crawl. I still had most of a mile or runway left and not wanting to taxi
forever into the wind, I pushed the levers forward and sailed along at
twenty feet for another 15 seconds. Touch-down the second time was as
satisfying as the first even without anyone looking. Slow taxi back to the
light tower and watch the prop wind down as I coast to a stop in front of my
airplane shed. Pushed back against the chocks, I fish my pocket for the
pitot cover. The radio clock in the car says 7:12 am.
The Skywagon lifts off as I exit the airport fence.
Keep building. It is worth it.
Steve E.
NX7229R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lutz Gebhardt <gebhardt(at)iag.uni-stuttgart.de> |
| Subject: | Re: Summer Morning Flight.... |
Steve,
what a great story! I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want to go flying right
now or even better the next morning after this one! Wish I could do such here
too ...
Keep flyin'
Lutz
--
1962 Jodel DR.1050 Ambassadeur D-EHIE s/n 291 'Heidi'
<http://www.iag.uni-stuttgart.de/people/lutz.gebhardt/Privat/frameset.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Summer Morning Flight.... |
Nice story Steve.... Makes want to go sit in my fuselage and make engine
noises.... That's something I miss about having my ultralight, those
morning trips.... but I knew if I kept it I would be flying instead of
building...
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mike(at)hardaway.com |
| Subject: | Re: Summer Morning Flight.... |
Steve Eldredge wrote:
> Just a note to those still working hard on their dream Piet,
>
The poetry of Piets... Oh, I wish my bird was flyable already!
Mike Hardaway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Lawler <clawler(at)ptd.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Weight and Cub performance |
I had a 220lbs passenger in the front seat of my C-65 Piet last night.
> No problem. Not a great climb rate. Maybe 200 per min. It was a
> spectacular night. Cool and calm. We were flying formation with a C-65
> cub. Major screw-up, forgot my camera. To stay with the cub I had to
> pull back to about 1850 rpm when the cub was at 2000. The Piet climbs
> quite a bit better too. The weight in the cub was about 30 or 40lbs
> more. His passenger had to go 270 or so. Called "Cub heavy" to
approach
> control. I'm not sure how much difference the extra weight makes to
> performance. I think we did a great job of introducing our
passengers,
> two brand new A& P's, to low and slow flight.
>
> Craig Lawler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop carving |
Carving your prop, is art, you will enjoy with the
results, if it does not work as spected... you have a
great clock for your wall :-)
Try it will not be dissapointed.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Carl Loar wrote:
>
>
> here is a place that carries Eric Cluttons book,,,
> they have it in stock for
> 10 bucks
> http://www.wood-carver.com/store.html
> I don't know why but I just ordered one( another
> fine mess you
> guys have gotten me into :)
> Carl
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Summer Morning Flight.... |
>From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Summer Morning Flight....
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:11:07 -0600
>
>
>Just a note to those still working hard on their dream Piet,
>
>I woke up this morning to our hungry 5 month old and made him a bottle a
>5:30am. The day dawn was breaking and the morning light was beginning to
>turn the sky gray-blue. Not a cloud in site. I had to make a trip to the
>airport anyway to drop off my canoe, so I got dressed and headed south 13
>miles to Springville in our Suburban with the 17' canoe strapped to the
>top.
>I rolled the piet out on the ramp as the first rays of sun were hitting the
>beacon tower. There is a brand new Chevron windsock at the top and it
>glowed in the morning sun. I buttoned up my flannel shirt right to the
>neck
>and flipped the prop through a couple times. Gas on, throttle cracked,
>altimeter set, mags to the left, dodge the strut and I find myself choked
>up
>on the Sensenich. I pause for just one second at enjoy the silence that
>I'm
>about to disturb. Heh heh. Where shall I go today?...
>
>Swing my right leg back and heave down on the prop from the 10 o' clock,
>I'm back in the thirties. The Continental 65 churns the air, slapping the
>canyon breeze. I just love that sound. Ear plugs in, Helmet on and
>trundle
>into the cockpit. The sunshine is blinding though perforated by the prop.
>I give it a bit of throttle just to cut the dizzying hypnosis. Seat belt
>on. Goggles on, check the oil pressure, start the stopwatch. Hey someone
>dropped of a Malibu on the ramp since I was here last. A tailwind scoots
>me
>along my mile plus journey to the other end of 30. I wonder if that red
>tail fox is out again this morning. Mag check, carb heat check. No one
>else in the air, I taxi out on 12 looking straight up Spanish Fork Canyon.
>The wind is stronger out in the open. Throttle forward to the stop. Heh,
>no real change in ground speed, but the tail wants to come up. Nice. I'm
>off way before the first set of VASI lights. 500' before the first hanger
>comes underwing and I head south. I-15 rolls south and I pick my
>speedometer. A cement truck. The funny kind that have the barrels that
>dump out over the cab. Other cars pass him, they must be speeding! No
>doubt.
>
>Spring Lake is still in the shadow of Mt. Nebo, but I am determined to wake
>up a co-worker living there. enroute is Philips Sod Farm. I haven't
>landed
>there for almost a year. Wonder if I'm still welcome... Low pass and a
>wing waggle to the early rising sod cutters indicate that I am. Maybe next
>time, looks like I'd be stuck there all morning giving rides if I touch
>down. Climbing again, circle twice over Jim's house, neighbor waves, Jim
>must be in the shower. Time to head home. Low pass going the other way
>down the sod strip and a sharp pull up at the end for fun. There is no
>wind
>in the valley, away from the mouth of the canyon. Did you smell that dairy
>farm? North through the empty practice area getting bored with the
>beauty,
>I wing over to the left and then to the right. A plodding single engine
>Cessna 1500' above heading south. How I love being bored.
>
>Back in the 'pattern' I'm alone again. I pretend I have a radio and
>announce downwind to the birds and make a tight pattern over midfield.
>Arch
>around base to final killing some altitude, everything happening so slowly,
>and even slower as I roll out to final. My friend the morning canyon wind
>is still dumping air into the valley. Still at 400' and 1/4 mile I see a
>185 and a Cherokee taxing out. They must be going together, cause the
>airport just isn't busy enough to have two planes heading out at the same
>time otherwise. I show off a bit and extend my landing, and touched down
>at
>a crawl. I still had most of a mile or runway left and not wanting to
>taxi
>forever into the wind, I pushed the levers forward and sailed along at
>twenty feet for another 15 seconds. Touch-down the second time was as
>satisfying as the first even without anyone looking. Slow taxi back to the
>light tower and watch the prop wind down as I coast to a stop in front of
>my
>airplane shed. Pushed back against the chocks, I fish my pocket for the
>pitot cover. The radio clock in the car says 7:12 am.
>
>The Skywagon lifts off as I exit the airport fence.
>
>Keep building. It is worth it.
>
>Steve E.
>NX7229R
>
>Thanks for the awsome encouragement story Steve E.It's still a dream at
>this point. Progress report: 1 rudder, 1 vert. stab, 2 elevators,
10 wing ribs, Franklin 80 hp overhaul underway. Will be ordering Fuse.
sruce this week. Ed G. Palm Harbor Fl.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Summer Morning Flight.... |
Thanks SteveE-----that's just what I needed to stoke that fire and kick it back
into high gear.....my goal,,,, this is the last year I'm driving to Brodhead.
I'm flying in 2001 !!
regards
JoeC
Zion, IL
Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> Just a note to those still working hard on their dream Piet,
>
> I woke up this morning to our hungry 5 month old and made him a bottle a
> 5:30am. The day dawn was breaking and the morning light was beginning to
> turn the sky gray-blue. Not a cloud in site. I had to make a trip to the
> airport anyway to drop off my canoe, so I got dressed and headed south 13
> miles to Springville in our Suburban with the 17' canoe strapped to the top.
> I rolled the piet out on the ramp as the first rays of sun were hitting the
> beacon tower. There is a brand new Chevron windsock at the top and it
> glowed in the morning sun. I buttoned up my flannel shirt right to the neck
> and flipped the prop through a couple times. Gas on, throttle cracked,
> altimeter set, mags to the left, dodge the strut and I find myself choked up
> on the Sensenich. I pause for just one second at enjoy the silence that I'm
> about to disturb. Heh heh. Where shall I go today?...
>
> Swing my right leg back and heave down on the prop from the 10 o' clock,
> I'm back in the thirties. The Continental 65 churns the air, slapping the
> canyon breeze. I just love that sound. Ear plugs in, Helmet on and trundle
> into the cockpit. The sunshine is blinding though perforated by the prop.
> I give it a bit of throttle just to cut the dizzying hypnosis. Seat belt
> on. Goggles on, check the oil pressure, start the stopwatch. Hey someone
> dropped of a Malibu on the ramp since I was here last. A tailwind scoots me
> along my mile plus journey to the other end of 30. I wonder if that red
> tail fox is out again this morning. Mag check, carb heat check. No one
> else in the air, I taxi out on 12 looking straight up Spanish Fork Canyon.
> The wind is stronger out in the open. Throttle forward to the stop. Heh,
> no real change in ground speed, but the tail wants to come up. Nice. I'm
> off way before the first set of VASI lights. 500' before the first hanger
> comes underwing and I head south. I-15 rolls south and I pick my
> speedometer. A cement truck. The funny kind that have the barrels that
> dump out over the cab. Other cars pass him, they must be speeding! No
> doubt.
>
> Spring Lake is still in the shadow of Mt. Nebo, but I am determined to wake
> up a co-worker living there. enroute is Philips Sod Farm. I haven't landed
> there for almost a year. Wonder if I'm still welcome... Low pass and a
> wing waggle to the early rising sod cutters indicate that I am. Maybe next
> time, looks like I'd be stuck there all morning giving rides if I touch
> down. Climbing again, circle twice over Jim's house, neighbor waves, Jim
> must be in the shower. Time to head home. Low pass going the other way
> down the sod strip and a sharp pull up at the end for fun. There is no wind
> in the valley, away from the mouth of the canyon. Did you smell that dairy
> farm? North through the empty practice area getting bored with the beauty,
> I wing over to the left and then to the right. A plodding single engine
> Cessna 1500' above heading south. How I love being bored.
>
> Back in the 'pattern' I'm alone again. I pretend I have a radio and
> announce downwind to the birds and make a tight pattern over midfield. Arch
> around base to final killing some altitude, everything happening so slowly,
> and even slower as I roll out to final. My friend the morning canyon wind
> is still dumping air into the valley. Still at 400' and 1/4 mile I see a
> 185 and a Cherokee taxing out. They must be going together, cause the
> airport just isn't busy enough to have two planes heading out at the same
> time otherwise. I show off a bit and extend my landing, and touched down at
> a crawl. I still had most of a mile or runway left and not wanting to taxi
> forever into the wind, I pushed the levers forward and sailed along at
> twenty feet for another 15 seconds. Touch-down the second time was as
> satisfying as the first even without anyone looking. Slow taxi back to the
> light tower and watch the prop wind down as I coast to a stop in front of my
> airplane shed. Pushed back against the chocks, I fish my pocket for the
> pitot cover. The radio clock in the car says 7:12 am.
>
> The Skywagon lifts off as I exit the airport fence.
>
> Keep building. It is worth it.
>
> Steve E.
> NX7229R
>
> _
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fishin <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | rain, rain go away |
talk about frog stranglers and gully washers, this rain lately is getting
out of hand. went over to 49C (camp lake airport) today for some hanger
talk. found two inches of water in the pilots lounge, crawdads outside the
door trying to get in, the culverts behind it was so full the carp were
migrating upstream and found bluegills on the turf runway that lost their
way. today camp lake airport was camp lake marina..the word was that even
the trol under the culvert foot bridge got washed away.... now that was a
rain and the forecast is for more-----wheeuuuu!!
April 10, 2000 - June 14, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bo