Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bq
July 31, 2000 - August 28, 2000
I read all the building posts with interest,I think I have missed half the
fun by
only buying and flying my Piets.
My C90 powered Piet has a car alternator(Very heavy ) with a wind prop
mounted on the
gear leg-On Sunday morning the mounting bracket broke Alt.Prop went into
spoked wheel
hellova scary noise I then did a precourtionary at a glider port and removed
the whole lot.
Anyone got any ideas on a lightweight safer system of charging the bat. for
the radio ?
Any help apreciated
Regards Doug Reeve
Johannesburg
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
I have two questions for the Piet group.
Does anyone have a good source for 1/4 5-ply plywood?
Also, any radiator makers out there anymore?
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Generator |
saw an installation were someone used an alternator
from a motorcycle and stator from same
--- Redeye wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
> I read all the building posts with interest,I think
> I have missed half the
> fun by
> only buying and flying my Piets.
> My C90 powered Piet has a car alternator(Very heavy
> ) with a wind prop
> mounted on the
> gear leg-On Sunday morning the mounting bracket
> broke Alt.Prop went into
> spoked wheel
> hellova scary noise I then did a precourtionary at a
> glider port and removed
> the whole lot.
> Anyone got any ideas on a lightweight safer system
> of charging the bat. for
> the radio ?
> Any help apreciated
> Regards Doug Reeve
> Johannesburg
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Freight Charges from A/C Spruce |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Freight Charges from A/C Spruce |
In a message dated 07/27/2000 2:41:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
dickmarg(at)peganet.com writes:
<< ietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard Gillespie"
I got charged $7.02 for U.P.S. ground on my invoice. The actual rate (from
UPS) was $4.90. Anybody else had similar experiences? Wicks might be
cheaper after all.
DickG. >>
Genius...I know you probably don't want to get involved in this crap but if
you feel inclined to let the powers- that- be know about such
comments....have at it !! I see this stuff quite regularly.
Just got back from Brodhead...had a ball. Didn't get a ride on the 'A'
Plane...weather set in...but lots of fun anyway. Got lots of good ( like
free) advice on how to deal with the bugs I'm having with the engine.
Incidentally, do you know if ACS handles the clear plastic self-sticking tape
for prop leading edges? I see it listed in the California Sysytems catalogue
but would rather order it from Spruce.
The drive North was treacherous...an accident just ahead of us that snuffed
out five people. Later a car ahead of us caught a deer doing 70 mph. They
were OK..(you know what happened to the deer) and we got all the glass and
guts.. Gotta go for now..we're in for an electrical storm momentarily and I
gotta shut it down. Talkatcha later, Ace One
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oshkosh / Broadhead |
It's always suprising to me, to see how much interest there is in aviation,
and how many people are out there, that have the same passion that I have !!
Attending Oshkosh / Broadhead, sure is a great way to meet alot of wonderful
people, and learn from their experiences. A special thanks to Doc Mosher,
and his wife, for giving Doug and I transportation to and from Broadhead !!
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wind Generator |
If is only for radio.. use a solar panel (size of a
licence plate) and conect it during the day... to
leave attached there is a diode that prevents the
panel to take electricity from the battery at night.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Redeye wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
> I read all the building posts with interest,I think
> I have missed half the
> fun by
> only buying and flying my Piets.
> My C90 powered Piet has a car alternator(Very heavy
> ) with a wind prop
> mounted on the
> gear leg-On Sunday morning the mounting bracket
> broke Alt.Prop went into
> spoked wheel
> hellova scary noise I then did a precourtionary at a
> glider port and removed
> the whole lot.
> Anyone got any ideas on a lightweight safer system
> of charging the bat. for
> the radio ?
> Any help apreciated
> Regards Doug Reeve
> Johannesburg
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne M <wmeier19(at)idt.net> |
>From: Mpj01(at)aol.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: two questions
>
>
>Hi,
>I have two questions for the Piet group.
>Does anyone have a good source for 1/4 5-ply plywood?
>Also, any radiator makers out there anymore?
>Thanks
>Mike
Mike,
I carry 6mm 5 ply Okoume and Meranti (marine grade). Shipping becomes a problem
($$) if you can't pick it up, however, I can cut it to size to minimize shipping
costs . My shop is south of Minneapolis. 651-882-9704
Wayne Meier
Midwest Marine Plywood
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Thanks Wayne,
I live just 20 miles N.E. of Rochester Mn.
I'll be up to see you soon
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Hello,
I'm using mahogony marine ply 6mm thick (1/4 inch). Its beautiful, available
through your local lumber yard (ordered on Tuesday and picked up on Wednesday
from Mead-Clark here in Santa Rosa, CA) and about 1/3 price of aircraft ply.
Jim Boyer
P.S. Have all my wing ribs done, all tail surfaces done and center section
spars. Just waiting for steel to do wing fittings (its on order).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Edwin Garman" <airplaneman77(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 3-Piece wing conversion |
Greetings,
I built my wing several years ago in the 1-piece configuration. I am
considering moving out of state and bringing my project with. Is there a
way to "convert" the 1-piece wing into a 3-piece wing if it has already been
built but not rigged or covered yet?
--Karl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <johnh(at)kencook.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3-Piece wing conversion |
If you use the "Poulan 18" conversion kit, the wing can be separated into
however many pieces you desire.
Sorry, but for some reason I could not resist............
Actually I think you should be able to use a variation of the "Poulan 18" to
separate the wing into two pieces to modify and build up a center section
when you get where you are going. Painful to split the wing into two but
practical for moving.
-john-
> Greetings,
>
> I built my wing several years ago in the 1-piece configuration. I am
> considering moving out of state and bringing my project with. Is there a
> way to "convert" the 1-piece wing into a 3-piece wing if it has already
been
> built but not rigged or covered yet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
I've emailed Replicraft about buying some metal parts with no reply.
Anyone know what's up with them? Any other sources for finished metal
Piet hardware?
Richard
=====
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Karl- My suggestion would be to not make your cuts
until the car and moving van are loaded and idling.
There is no reason why you couldn't do what you propose.
I would make one cut right at the midpoint of the wing
thru everything...then worry about shortening each of the
four spars when you reach your new residence to mate it
with a center section.
Not to berate the advantages of the one piece wing...but it
does present many problems while building.
It's hard to store, hard to flip, not easy to ribstitch yourself,
It's awkward and heavy to move and rotate when you are
doing all the fabric and painting work. A friend in Ohio here
had his wife help flip his Scout wing (one pce.) and she
messed up her back and shoulders for several months.
With the 3 pce wing I was able to move each wing panel alone,
with no help, ever...even after they were covered. A one car
garage held everything including tailfeathers, fuse on the gear
and engine mounted. Transportation to the airport for rigging was
easy too. I made roof racks for the 87 Honda and each wing rode
nicely to the hangar......two trips, done. Mounting the 3 pce wing
is a one person operation too if need be. I rigged the whole wing
(to check for strut length fabrication.) on the plane in the back yard
unassisted. You bolt the wing panels to the center section and let the
tips droop to the ground, then simply lift them up at the wingtip
bow and prop up with 2 x 4's or something similar.
The 3 pce. wing is more time-consuming and adds (they tell me)
about 10 lbs. to the plane...but for me it was the only way to go.
If you ever ding a wing tip chances are good you'll only have to
work on the one wing panel, not the whole thing.
Also...what happens in the event we need to make an off
field landing and the authorities want us to trailer it out ?
You can add dihedral easier too with the 3 pce wing...you don't
have to build it into your spars. (and you can remove the
dihedral or change it pretty easy too with the 3 pce where the
one pce is a fixed deal.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
I used to have a web site address for a clasified add listing for aircraft
engines then my computer messed up so i have lost it and cant remember it any
body have an idea as to what it may have been?
Thanks
Robert Bush
________________________________________________________________________________
Greetings:
Give them a call. I dealt with Steve and he did a great job. He was prompt
to answer my e-mails and phone calls. The work on what I bought was very
good.
Joe Matthews
Columbus, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
Thanks Daryl thats the one i couldnt remember.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3-Piece wing conversion |
just add an extention to the tongue on your trailer.
a piece of tubing or pipe clamped to your trailer
tongue with a hitch bolted on the end.
del
--- Karl Edwin Garman
wrote:
> Garman"
>
> Greetings,
>
> I built my wing several years ago in the 1-piece
> configuration. I am
> considering moving out of state and bringing my
> project with. Is there a
> way to "convert" the 1-piece wing into a 3-piece
> wing if it has already been
> built but not rigged or covered yet?
>
> --Karl
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
go into barnstormers.com and look for engines.
JoeC
RBush96589(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I used to have a web site address for a clasified add listing for aircraft
> engines then my computer messed up so i have lost it and cant remember it any
> body have an idea as to what it may have been?
> Thanks
> Robert Bush
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: carb heat box size? |
I don't have the dimensions but I once saw one on a Rose Parakeet made from a
metal english tea box.
Tom Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
Richard,
We took a few days off to construct and move the office, and to enlarge the
wood shop. The phone lines are now up and running...and I'm wading through
the e-mails as fast as I can!!!
Sorry for the delay in answering.
Regards,
Steve
Replicraft Aviation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Karen Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
replicraft is alive and well. I do not know why you have not received a
response . . . you might try another e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
Richard
It took me two tries to get a catolog, and I did get one
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 8/2/00 11:33:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Any other sources for finished metal
Piet hardware?
Richard >>
I talked with Vi Kapler at Broadhead, and he is getting together with someone
to cut all the metal parts, using either laser, or water (I forget which).
Vi also did a question and answer session, when he told of some of his
experiences while working with Bernard Pietenpol. He worked with Bernard for
some ten years, and said it was the best ten years of his life.
VITALIS KAPLER
1033 Forest Hill Dr. SW
Rochester, MN 55902
Te. 507-288-3322
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Hey Mike,
Try Carlberg Radiator in Richfield, MN
Tel. 612 866-5107
They do custom radiators and have done them for Piets.
This shop used to be owned by an antiquer who built several
Pietenpols.
Greg Cardinal
>>> 07/31 3:00 PM >>>
Hi,
I have two questions for the Piet group.
Does anyone have a good source for 1/4 5-ply plywood?
Also, any radiator makers out there anymore?
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two questions |
Thanks greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spar weights |
Do any remember the weight of your four spars before and after routing per
plans.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Corky......Frank Pavliga told me that routing lightens the
spars by 16 pounds.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
I weighed my spars before routing and after (D. Fir) and saved 4 lbs each.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar weights
Do any remember the weight of your four spars before and after routing per
plans.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
I did get one. I guess they were moving their office/shop. Great price
on hardware... roughly $900 for most of the hardware for the Piet. Will
get me in the air a lot sooner! Zoooooooom! or shoud I say
put-put-put-put...
--- Gene & Karen Rambo wrote:
>
>
> replicraft is alive and well. I do not know why you have not
> received a
> response . . . you might try another e-mail
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh / Broadhead |
I was at Osh this year but didn't make it to Broadhead because the flu went
through our campsite.... Hope there was lots there. I was hoping someone
was going to have streamline tubing to sell me cheap or point me to where to
buy it cheap.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, July 31, 2000 10:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh / Broadhead
>
>It's always suprising to me, to see how much interest there is in aviation,
>and how many people are out there, that have the same passion that I have
!!
>Attending Oshkosh / Broadhead, sure is a great way to meet alot of
wonderful
>people, and learn from their experiences. A special thanks to Doc Mosher,
>and his wife, for giving Doug and I transportation to and from Broadhead !!
>
>Chuck Gantzer
>Wichita KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
I almost forgot to ask.. how was Brodhead 2000? Anyone have any pics
for me to post on AirCamper.org? :)
=====
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Radiator makers |
Hello Mike: I have a radiator made from the drawings shown in the
BPANews for the Ford A Piet. I don't think I will be useing it. may
sell. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Cheap streamline tubing |
Sorry Greg, there aint no such thing any more. The next best thing is
streamline alum. tubing. still not cheap, but it is by comparison to
steel. I'm buying my lift strut tubing from RANS over in Hays Ks. They
sell to homebuilders. They even have some nice strut end fittings, but
the holes are wrong for the Piet. They are simple 1X1 bar stock (6061
T6) witch is available from ACS etc, All half the price of steel and
lighter too. Leon S. Hutch. Ks. PS Speaking of cheap tubing, remember
all of the salvage yard types who brought their wares to the Osh. fly
market in years past. We spent hours and hours looking for those items
we needed for our homebuilts? Only one there this year. He told me he
came within a cats whisker of not coming this year either. EAA is
pricing all but the high dollar venders out of the show. 4K $ outside
8K inside for a booth!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Radiator makers |
If the person who posted the original query on this is not interestred in
the radiator, I am!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3-Piece wing conversion |
Have you thought of offering your one piece wing for sale and building
another 3-piece? Might be worth it to you. Let me know if interested, I
may know someone who would be very interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap streamline tubing |
Which tubing did you buy from Randy? How did you make attachments?? I was
thinking of making an adjustable tie rod end on one end to use for dihedral
and washout adjustments.
I was more than disappointed with the parts guys there. I didn't buy a
single part for my Piet at Osh this year. The only thing I got was a Piet
t-shirt.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ol-List:Wheels and brakes for sale 6 X 6 Cleveland |
I have a set of cleveland brakes and 6 X6 whells for sale. $200 plus shipping
william koucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
I know you dont generally varnish (finish) the wood til your done
building, but I have 28 ribs, a horiz stab and pieces of the wing that
I want to protect from moisture til I can assemble them. Any
recommendations on a temporary storage method? My shop isnt the driest
place in the world.
Richard
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap streamline tubing |
Greg: I haven't bought my tubing from Rans yet. I have a set of 4 struts
from a Quicksilver 500GT which is rated at 1000 gross. they have .049
wall thickness. The Piet has a gvw of 1100 lbs. , So for my peace of
mind, I'm planning to go with the Rans strut witch have a .070 wall as
used on the S-7 rated at 1200 lbs gross. The large struts have a 1in
flat area inside (3/4"X3/4 for the smaller tubing) that take the 1X1 bar
stock ends. My plan is to slot the lower bar stock horizontally to
fit in the fus. strut fittings in the normal way so the wing can be
moved for c/g. On the upper ends, I will use the same slotted bar stock
along with the bushing and strap weldment from the plans. On the rear I
also want adjustment for wash in/out. The Quicksilver method was to
bore and tap the bar stock for an eye bolt out of a large turnbuckle.
5/16 or 3/8 , I don't have them in front of me. I would preferrer a fork
end rather than an eye bolt. Rans prices are $69 for a 98" strut $81 for
a 116" piece. I found a Matco tail wheel at the Aeromart for $50 The
only bargain I found all week . Also I ordered a pneumatic tailwheel
tire from Andair (in England) (1/2 lb) to lighten things up at the
tail. Andair makes those beautiful (expensive) gascolaters and fuel
valves used on the RV's and Glassair's.
Another nifty idea I got from Rans is
no turnbuckles on tailbrace wires. surely another couple pounds saved
over 8 turnbuckles. See you at Benton. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol lift struts |
Greg Yotz -
Missed you at Oshkosh. Sorry about the flu. Brodhead seemed even nicer
this year.
The rear lift struts of a Piper Cub are OK for the Piet. Some Cub owners
remove their old struts and install the new sealed lift struts to avoid the
repetitive Airworthiness Directive annual inspection on the struts. The
old struts are never thrown away, but are usually squirreled away in the
hangar rafters. The Piper struts seem to rust at the bottom ends after 50
years or so. You can cut off the ends of the old struts and they will
still be long enough to reuse for your Piet. Put your scrounging ability
to work and look for friends with Piper Cubs.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
Doc,
That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to come
there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and look
up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower end.
Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com>
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000 5:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
>Greg Yotz -
>
>Missed you at Oshkosh. Sorry about the flu. Brodhead seemed even nicer
>this year.
>
>The rear lift struts of a Piper Cub are OK for the Piet. Some Cub owners
>remove their old struts and install the new sealed lift struts to avoid the
>repetitive Airworthiness Directive annual inspection on the struts. The
>old struts are never thrown away, but are usually squirreled away in the
>hangar rafters. The Piper struts seem to rust at the bottom ends after 50
>years or so. You can cut off the ends of the old struts and they will
>still be long enough to reuse for your Piet. Put your scrounging ability
>to work and look for friends with Piper Cubs.
>
>Doc Mosher
>Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap streamline tubing |
I was also disappointed with the parts available at OSH. SNF was much
better. The instrument prices were within a few bucks of new. I did make a
side trip though to McCormick lumber in Madison, Wi. to pick up spruce for
my spars. They have some very nice 16-20 ft - 1x6 & 1x9's. I got enough
for spars, leading and trailing edges for $400.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cheap streamline tubing
>
> Which tubing did you buy from Randy? How did you make attachments?? I
was
> thinking of making an adjustable tie rod end on one end to use for
dihedral
> and washout adjustments.
>
> I was more than disappointed with the parts guys there. I didn't buy a
> single part for my Piet at Osh this year. The only thing I got was a Piet
> t-shirt.
>
> Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh / Broadhead |
I bought a set of J3 struts that cost me $200. at the market that you can
buy and sell. Had to stand in line for a while. At Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Wing Fittings |
I need a little help and further explanation on how to fit the 3 piece wing.
You have two spar sections to be joined in line with identical 3/32 spar
plates and steel straps of identical thickness. How can these be joined
without disturbing the prolongation of the spars, leading edge and trailing
edge. I read that Mr Pietenpol was probably a genius. I'm not. Have any of
you encountered the situation and solved it? Please give me a hint so I can
keep building.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Replicraft(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Wing Fittings |
Corky
The 3/32 ply plates do not go under the whole fitting on the center section.
The drawing is confusing, but the ply is a pie-shaped piece that goes up to
but not behind the spar/cabane attach fitting. There is only a small wedge
that slips under the metal strap that connects the cabane attach with the
spar attach parts of this assembly to make up for the thickness of the metal.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | varnish recommendations |
to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
time.
When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
spot. sounds like good advice to me.
del
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http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: keeping wood |
I varnished all my tail sections as soon as I was done for stabilization.
The ribs were placed in a large garbage bags with some packages of
dissicant(sp?) to keep it dry. I also had wired them together to keep them
from warping. Varnished and sanded the spars with one coat after all
routing was done.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000 1:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping wood
>
>I know you dont generally varnish (finish) the wood til your done
>building, but I have 28 ribs, a horiz stab and pieces of the wing that
>I want to protect from moisture til I can assemble them. Any
>recommendations on a temporary storage method? My shop isnt the driest
>place in the world.
>
>Richard
>
>
>=====
>Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
>
>Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
>http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
I'm starting that search today. I've got to run up to Omaha to watch my son
ride bulls and maybe I can hit a few small airports on the way.
Greg
>Doc,
>That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to
come
>there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and
look
>up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower end.
>Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
>walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: varnish recommendations |
Any particular varnish recommended over another?
--- del magsam wrote:
>
>
> to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
> time.
> When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
> from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
> ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
> and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
> spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
> to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
> spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
> spot. sounds like good advice to me.
> del
>
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
Concerning the lift strut sources; I bought my lift struts from Carlson
Aircraft in East Palestine Ohio last yearand they are still available as far
as I know. They are the same aluminum struts that RANS sells but they are
about half the price.
The struts come in 10.5 ft. lengths; I got the large size, (3.13" x 1.25")
outside dimensions, with the inside 'flats' that are a mate up to 1" square
bar stock. I paid $41.50 per strut. There is a smaller size, 2.44" x
1.00" that was cheaper, about $38.00 per length. The struts are 6061-T6
aluminum extrusions.
Carlson is an aeronautical engineer who formerly worked for Piper and he has
several planes of his design available, i.e. plans, parts , etc. the
struts are used in one of his designs that has a heaver wing loading than
the Piet and he uses one of each in that design.
the address :
Carlson Aircraft, Inc.
50643 S.R. 14
PO Box 88
East Palestine, OH 44413
TEL 330-426-3934, FAX 330-426-1144
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
> I'm starting that search today. I've got to run up to Omaha to watch my
son
> ride bulls and maybe I can hit a few small airports on the way.
>
> Greg
>
>
> >Doc,
> >That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to
> come
> >there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and
> look
> >up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower
end.
> >Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
> >walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: varnish recommendations |
Richard,
You want a varnish that is compatible with your covering material &
chemicals. If you are planning on using the Stits Poly-Fiber process or
something similar, they strongly recommend a two part epoxy varnish. This can
be a bit spendy, so as an alternative, you can use and good quality marine spar
varnish to protect the wood, and come back and lightly sand the fabric contact
points and use the two part epoxy varnish only on these critical contact
points.
Cheers,
Warren
PS: Haven't been able to access your hosted site...error messages.
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> Any particular varnish recommended over another?
>
> --- del magsam wrote:
> >
> >
> > to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
> > time.
> > When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
> > from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
> > ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
> > and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
> > spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
> > to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
> > spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
> > spot. sounds like good advice to me.
> > del
> >
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
>
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
and the website is
http://www.sky-tek.com
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: varnish recommendations |
Sounds good. Since the ribs and fuse have been assembled for over a
year and a half and sitting in the garage unprotected, any sure way to
make sure I dont varnish in some rot? :) Any teltale signs to look for?
Richard
--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
>
>
> Richard,
> You want a varnish that is compatible with your covering material
> &
> chemicals. If you are planning on using the Stits Poly-Fiber process
> or
> something similar, they strongly recommend a two part epoxy varnish.
> This can
> be a bit spendy, so as an alternative, you can use and good quality
> marine spar
> varnish to protect the wood, and come back and lightly sand the
> fabric contact
> points and use the two part epoxy varnish only on these critical
> contact
> points.
> Cheers,
> Warren
> PS: Haven't been able to access your hosted site...error messages.
>
>
> Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Any particular varnish recommended over another?
> >
> > --- del magsam wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
> > > time.
> > > When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
> > > from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
> > > ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
> > > and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
> > > spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
> > > to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
> > > spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
> > > spot. sounds like good advice to me.
> > > del
> > >
> > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =====
> > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> >
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Richard:: At Oshkosh I attended the covering forum put n by people who
have a covering business in Florida. She stressed never use a single
part hardware store varnish as most all fabric glues will act as paint
remover on it. She said each of the covering systems offer a 2 part
varnish (she delt with Poly Fiber) Use the one sold by the covering
system you will be covering your Piet.in. I think you could use a
single part varnish on all areas that don't come n contact with fabric
and a 2 part where the fabric glues on....Also on old J-3 struts, Is it
wise to put 50 yr old struts on a brand new airplane? New wood, new
fabric, hardware, then 50 year old struts! I know they rust in the lower
end, but how do you guarantee that the upper end is in perfect condition
without sending one of those exotic pinpoint camera's up the tubing, or
some expensive ultra sounding test. Even if they look good, they took a
hell of a beating over the years. Most spent there early years as
trainers, crop sprayers etc. I planned to get alum. struts from Rans,
but a recent post said Carelson Aircraft has them at a cheaper price. I
think the peace of mind is worth the cost, Sincerely Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B. Riesen" <briesenjr(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 08/04/00 |
please remove my name and e-mail address from your mailing list .. Thank
you...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish/DeCosta |
Leon, I spent a good deal of time with the Polyfiber people at Sun n Fun
and got basically the same message. I had varnished allof my parts with a
good quality hardware store polyurethane varnish for sealing and now that I
am ready to cover a good bit of the plane, I wondered how compatible it
would be with the Polyfiber components.
They said no problem just come back over the parts with another coating of
their 2-part varnish and there would be no problems. Weight could be a
small problem, but even if it take a pint or so of varnish to go back over
the contact areas that fabric will touch, I think most of the volatiles in
the varnish volatilize off and another coat wont be that heavy. I wonder if
most people put on multiple coats anyway??
I'm not CONVINCED it's necessary anyway, but probably not a bad idea. I do
have a friend who has built 4 airplanes and used hardware store varnish and
had no problems (in 25 years or so). Not to say problems wont arise
later..
So it's probably up to us to choose a route we're comfortable with and go
for it.
bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish/DeCosta
Stefan)
>
> Richard:: At Oshkosh I attended the covering forum put n by people who
> have a covering business in Florida. She stressed never use a single
> part hardware store varnish as most all fabric glues will act as paint
> remover on it. She said each of the covering systems offer a 2 part
> varnish (she delt with Poly Fiber) Use the one sold by the covering
> system you will be covering your Piet.in. I think you could use a
> single part varnish on all areas that don't come n contact with fabric
> and a 2 part where the fabric glues on....Also on old J-3 struts, Is it
> wise to put 50 yr old struts on a brand new airplane? New wood, new
> fabric, hardware, then 50 year old struts! I know they rust in the lower
> end, but how do you guarantee that the upper end is in perfect condition
> without sending one of those exotic pinpoint camera's up the tubing, or
> some expensive ultra sounding test. Even if they look good, they took a
> hell of a beating over the years. Most spent there early years as
> trainers, crop sprayers etc. I planned to get alum. struts from Rans,
> but a recent post said Carelson Aircraft has them at a cheaper price. I
> think the peace of mind is worth the cost, Sincerely Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter/Marilyn Fuller" <wmfuller(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Wheels and brakes for sale 6 X 6 Cleveland |
-----Original Message-----
From: Wkoucky(at)aol.com <Wkoucky(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, August 04, 2000 6:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:Wheels and brakes for sale 6 X 6 Cleveland
>
>I have a set of cleveland brakes and 6 X6 whells for sale. $200 plus
shipping
>
>william koucky
>Hi william I like to have the set please let me have your adress to mail
check t o . kindly advise shipping charges with ups or mail. also tell me
condition and from what ac did they comeyou can email above requested info.
Walter fuller 141 lakeside terrace hiawassee, ga 30546 tel 706 8965068
thanks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: varnish recommendations |
Richard,
Unless they have been hanging in a sauna, the odds of any rot is very
small. You will be looking for a different than normal color, with particular
attention to end grain. If your time is limited in your varnish efforts, at
least do the end grain that is exposed.
If any of the wood has been sitting on raw concrete, that is where you
should be most concerned, as this will draw the moisture to the wood. If there
is any mildew, it will appear as black spots. This usually occurs only between
pieces that have been very wet and allowed to sit for some time.
It is very important that you varnish dry wood. If your shop is really
moist, use the old sailboaters trick....put a 100 watt light bulb drop light in
a closed container with the wood "stickered". Even this small amount of warmth
will keep things dry, and will cost you very little. Just use some common
sense regarding electrical fire hazards. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Warren
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> Sounds good. Since the ribs and fuse have been assembled for over a
> year and a half and sitting in the garage unprotected, any sure way to
> make sure I dont varnish in some rot? :) Any teltale signs to look for?
>
> Richard
>
> --- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Richard,
> > You want a varnish that is compatible with your covering material
> > &
> > chemicals. If you are planning on using the Stits Poly-Fiber process
> > or
> > something similar, they strongly recommend a two part epoxy varnish.
> > This can
> > be a bit spendy, so as an alternative, you can use and good quality
> > marine spar
> > varnish to protect the wood, and come back and lightly sand the
> > fabric contact
> > points and use the two part epoxy varnish only on these critical
> > contact
> > points.
> > Cheers,
> > Warren
> > PS: Haven't been able to access your hosted site...error messages.
> >
> >
> > Richard DeCosta wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Any particular varnish recommended over another?
> > >
> > > --- del magsam wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
> > > > time.
> > > > When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
> > > > from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
> > > > ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
> > > > and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
> > > > spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
> > > > to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
> > > > spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
> > > > spot. sounds like good advice to me.
> > > > del
> > > >
> > > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > >
> > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
>
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpols in the Fresno area? |
I'm out in California for 6 weeks (Bass Lake) and am wondering if there are
any Pietenpol builders or flyers in the area around Fresno.
I'd like to hook up maybe and take a look. I'm currently rebuilding a Piet
in St Paul, MN
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Redeye" <intercon(at)netactive.co.za> |
| Subject: | How do I unsubscibe |
I am going on Holiday for 3 weeks and want to unsubscibe fom this list for a
while
as it will fill up my mail box for a while.
Can someone please advise me how to unsubcribe.
Regards Doug Reeve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: varnish recommendations |
Thanks for the advice, all!
I went to the Owls Head Transportation Museums big Car & Air Show
yesterday. Wow! What a great day! More antique cars and planes
(flying!) than I'd ever seen. I even got one of my piets turtle deck
supports autographed by Dalmar Benjamin, the guy who built the Gee Bee
R-2 relica (www.geebee.com), which flew at the show. WHAT A PLANE! If
you ever get the chance to see him, do it!
Richard
--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
>
>
> Richard,
> Unless they have been hanging in a sauna, the odds of any rot is
> very
> small. You will be looking for a different than normal color, with
> particular
> attention to end grain. If your time is limited in your varnish
> efforts, at
> least do the end grain that is exposed.
> If any of the wood has been sitting on raw concrete, that is
> where you
> should be most concerned, as this will draw the moisture to the wood.
> If there
> is any mildew, it will appear as black spots. This usually occurs
> only between
> pieces that have been very wet and allowed to sit for some time.
> It is very important that you varnish dry wood. If your shop is
> really
> moist, use the old sailboaters trick....put a 100 watt light bulb
> drop light in
> a closed container with the wood "stickered". Even this small amount
> of warmth
> will keep things dry, and will cost you very little. Just use some
> common
> sense regarding electrical fire hazards. Hope this helps.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Sounds good. Since the ribs and fuse have been assembled for over a
> > year and a half and sitting in the garage unprotected, any sure way
> to
> > make sure I dont varnish in some rot? :) Any teltale signs to look
> for?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > --- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard,
> > > You want a varnish that is compatible with your covering
> material
> > > &
> > > chemicals. If you are planning on using the Stits Poly-Fiber
> process
> > > or
> > > something similar, they strongly recommend a two part epoxy
> varnish.
> > > This can
> > > be a bit spendy, so as an alternative, you can use and good
> quality
> > > marine spar
> > > varnish to protect the wood, and come back and lightly sand the
> > > fabric contact
> > > points and use the two part epoxy varnish only on these critical
> > > contact
> > > points.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Warren
> > > PS: Haven't been able to access your hosted site...error
> messages.
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard DeCosta wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Any particular varnish recommended over another?
> > > >
> > > > --- del magsam wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > to comment on the question of varnishing ahead of
> > > > > time.
> > > > > When I was at brodhead friday. I bought a set of ribs
> > > > > from charlie rubeck. His recommendation was to dip the
> > > > > ribs and brush the spars with varnish before assembly.
> > > > > and then fasten ribs to each spar with 4 nails in each
> > > > > spar (no glue). and then if there is anything youwant
> > > > > to glue on it is easy to sand the varnish off in the
> > > > > spot that you want to glue and then revarnish that
> > > > > spot. sounds like good advice to me.
> > > > > del
> > > > >
> > > > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > > >
> > > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =====
> > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> >
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish/DeCosta |
50 years old scare you??? Steel is steel regardless of the age. Yes,
Cub struts sometimes rust through at the bottom if water has been allowed
to collect, but the tops are usually OK. Besides, you would cut off the
bottom AND the tops anyway. I fly several times a week, usually doing
aerobatics, in an airplane which is 72 years old. Got over 1000 hours on
it since my restoration and had no problems yet.
----------
> From: Leon Stefan <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
> To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish/DeCosta
> Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 7:32 PM
>
Stefan)
>
> Richard:: At Oshkosh I attended the covering forum put n by people who
> have a covering business in Florida. She stressed never use a single
> part hardware store varnish as most all fabric glues will act as paint
> remover on it. She said each of the covering systems offer a 2 part
> varnish (she delt with Poly Fiber) Use the one sold by the covering
> system you will be covering your Piet.in. I think you could use a
> single part varnish on all areas that don't come n contact with fabric
> and a 2 part where the fabric glues on....Also on old J-3 struts, Is it
> wise to put 50 yr old struts on a brand new airplane? New wood, new
> fabric, hardware, then 50 year old struts! I know they rust in the lower
> end, but how do you guarantee that the upper end is in perfect condition
> without sending one of those exotic pinpoint camera's up the tubing, or
> some expensive ultra sounding test. Even if they look good, they took a
> hell of a beating over the years. Most spent there early years as
> trainers, crop sprayers etc. I planned to get alum. struts from Rans,
> but a recent post said Carelson Aircraft has them at a cheaper price. I
> think the peace of mind is worth the cost, Sincerely Leon S.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
Greg
What circuit does your son ride? We are big rodeo fans. We managed to hit
6 in july in Mont Wyo. and Minn. Mostly PRCA
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
> I'm starting that search today. I've got to run up to Omaha to watch my
son
> ride bulls and maybe I can hit a few small airports on the way.
>
> Greg
>
>
> >Doc,
> >That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to
> come
> >there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and
> look
> >up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower
end.
> >Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
> >walt
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I'm getting ready to scarf joint my spars (one piece wing) and while I have
been sticking to the plans as much as possible I am wondering about the
direction of the joint. The plan has a joint from top to bottom. I have
seen many more joints run the opposite way. It seems the greater gluing
surface would be advisable. Also, would it be advisable to put a plywood cap
over the joint? I am planning on building in 1" of diheadreal.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
>
>Concerning the lift strut sources; I bought my lift struts from Carlson
>Aircraft in East Palestine Ohio last
Group- Sad to say, but Ernie Carlson died a few mos. ago in one
of his designs on takeoff so I'm not sure if the business is still open
or not. (his engine wasn't developing full power.)
Mike C.
PS- I did not varnish anything until the entire wing was assembled,
glued, sanded and spot putty filled where needed. Then used Helmsman
Spar Polyurethane by Minwax...the fast drying brand and sprayed it thru
a Hudson or pump up sprayer, flipped the wings, repeat, let dry, sand
any drips, flip, repeat. Did this over a stone driveway on two saw horses.
Fuselage was brushed on- with the thick stuff, not the thinned out fast-drying.
If you let this stuff cure for 2 mos. or so MEK won't attack it.....so the
fabric cements work fine with no epoxy varnish needed where the fabric
gets glued down.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
One last item after applying the Helmsman polyurethane
is to spray on a thin, quick coat of DuPont 222S sanding
sealer available at an auto paint store. This keeps the MEK
from attacking the varnish. The key here is to let this
whole mess cure for 2 mos. or so, then apply fabric.
Otherwise use the 2 part epoxy where fabric cement will
be used.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 50 year old fork-ends |
Guys- I used Cub fork-ends (for adjustable lift struts)
that had no records of any sort. (no history available.)
I simply had them magnafluxed at a local shop and no
defects or cracks were found. BUT.....had I not checked
them........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish/DeCosta |
Went to the Poly Fiber forums at Sun-n-Fun and Osh. They said to try MEK on
the varnish and the primer on metal parts. If the rag comes away clean then
no problem. If it comes away colored with varnish or primer them you better
use a two part over it...
Had to redue all my metal parts only. I varnished with a marine epoxy
varnish which was fine.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol lift struts |
He rides IPRA mostly Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Arkansas. He may pay the money
and ride some PRCA this fall. Next spring for sure.
May have found my struts. Found a guy with 60 plus on hand and $20 a strut
I come and find what I want.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
>Greg
>What circuit does your son ride? We are big rodeo fans. We managed to
hit
>6 in july in Mont Wyo. and Minn. Mostly PRCA
>Dick Navratil
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:11 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
>
>>
>> I'm starting that search today. I've got to run up to Omaha to watch my
>son
>> ride bulls and maybe I can hit a few small airports on the way.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> >Doc,
>> >That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to
>> come
>> >there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and
>> look
>> >up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower
>end.
>> >Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
>> >walt
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Would anyone on the list happen to have a phone number for Terry Oberer, the
Model A guru that Grant MacLaren mentioned several times in the BPA
Newsletter and who gave a talk a few years back at Brodhead ? I purchased a
Model B carb from him and am experiencing some problems. The phone company
has no listing under his address. I could write him but would rather talk
with him personally and get on with fixing the problem. OR..... does anyone
know where I can locate a Model B carb float ? Thanks Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Keep in mind that the possibility of the applied varnish/polyurethane
pulling away from the wood shouldn't be an issue. The strength of the seam
,at say, the leading edge is from the bond of the two fabrics to themselves.
If you read the Poly Fiber book it explains how the glue doesn't "stick"
to dacron polyester . It's the glue reaching through the fabric like
fingers, that mechanically lock the fabric together. Thats why the 2"
overlap on the leading edge. They tell me thats why Whitmans plane went
down, the old fashioned dopes etc. that he used, stuck to cotton. But he
used those adhesives and procedures on dacron polyester. The seam
delaminated, and they went down.
Some people use the presewn "bags" that are just slipped over the wing, and
shrunk ( even used on certified aircraft). So in theory you could slip on
the bag, shrink it, seal it, and fly.
As far as the fabric being glued to cap strips, some planes like the
Kolb, use round aluminum tubing for ribs. There is no way fabric can be
glued to the round top of tubing, so its just the rib stitching or in Kolbs
case, pop rivets that secure the fabric.
On my first project I used Minwax quick dry polyurethane and the
glues never attacked the poly, even at a glue joint without an overlap,like
at the cockpit, where the fabric just ends at a wood edge. This area gets
alot of traffic, climbing in and out.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
For the ducting for carb heat and cabin heat, what should I use, "CAT or
SCAT"?
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B carb Parts |
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Terry Oberer
>
> I purchased a
> Model B carb .... does anyone
> know where I can locate a Model B carb float ? Thanks Don Hicks
Is the carb a Zenith or a Tilotson? George Moir Antique Auto Parts in Stony
Plain Alberta (780 963 7334) has Ford parts from 1908 to 1954. I am sure he
would have al the carb parts you would need. I would suggest that you
contact the Model A Ford Club of America chapter nearest you they probably
know closer sources.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol lift struts |
Greg,,,, where is this strut guy?,,,, sounds like you found the lost
gold mine.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg Yotz
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
He rides IPRA mostly Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska, Arkansas. He may pay the money
and ride some PRCA this fall. Next spring for sure.
May have found my struts. Found a guy with 60 plus on hand and $20 a strut
I come and find what I want.
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Sunday, August 06, 2000 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
>Greg
>What circuit does your son ride? We are big rodeo fans. We managed to
hit
>6 in july in Mont Wyo. and Minn. Mostly PRCA
>Dick Navratil
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 10:11 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol lift struts
>
>
>>
>> I'm starting that search today. I've got to run up to Omaha to watch my
>son
>> ride bulls and maybe I can hit a few small airports on the way.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> >Doc,
>> >That's how I got mine. A fellow flyer from a nearby airport told me to
>> come
>> >there, they had lots. Couldn't believe it, go into the old hanger and
>> look
>> >up. It's exactly what you said, any damage, if any, is at the lower
>end.
>> >Cut out the center and you're ready to go.
>> >walt
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 50 year old fork-ends .........question!! |
mike:
Did you used the ones with rolled threads or cut threads. I have some with
cut threads but all the old timers advise against using them for fear of
hairline cracks in between the threads.
What do ya'll think about using cut threads?
Thanks,
\
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 50 year old fork-ends
>
> Guys- I used Cub fork-ends (for adjustable lift struts)
> that had no records of any sort. (no history available.)
> I simply had them magnafluxed at a local shop and no
> defects or cracks were found. BUT.....had I not checked
> them........
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Terry Oberer |
Greetings from Tavares.
Saw your request for Terry Oberer's phone number; here it is:
Terry Oberer
3609 Traci Lane
Byrnes Mill , MO 63051
(636) 677-7201
I sent him my Model B Zenith carb and he rebuilt it for me; haven't tried it
yet, but it looks good.
Hope you had a good trip home from Brodhead and that Clara is feeling OK
now.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
----- Original Message -----
From: <DonanClara(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Terry Oberer
>
> Would anyone on the list happen to have a phone number for Terry Oberer,
the
> Model A guru that Grant MacLaren mentioned several times in the BPA
> Newsletter and who gave a talk a few years back at Brodhead ? I purchased
a
> Model B carb from him and am experiencing some problems. The phone company
> has no listing under his address. I could write him but would rather talk
> with him personally and get on with fixing the problem. OR..... does
anyone
> know where I can locate a Model B carb float ? Thanks Don Hicks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plywood spars |
I should have reviewed my saved archived info before I sent out my e-mail
last night. This past message by Doc is the best answer to my question.
There is lots of great info already out there.
Thanks Doc
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Mosher" <docshop(at)famvid.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood spars
>
> Wayne Sippola -
>
> During 2000 Sun 'n' Fun, we had quite a discussion in the woodworking tent
> about just such a setup as you describe - "Plywood spars." There seemed
to
> be agreement that the strength of the built-up spar would be adequate if
> the work were done properly.
>
> The plans shown in the 1932 "Flying and Glider Manual" show the wing spar
> dimensions as 1 inch thick and 4 3/4 inches high. Certain sections are
> routed out 1/4" deep on each side, leaving a 1/2" web.
>
> Since spar material (1" x 4 3/4") totaling the entire wingspan of 33' 6"
> was difficult to come by (and still is), Bernie took two planks, each
about
> 18 feet long, and spliced them together, with the splice falling exactly
in
> the center of the wing between the cabane fittings.
>
> BHP did not have FAA's AC43.13-1A as a guide, so the plans show that he
> made a 5 to 1 scarf joint running from the top of the spar to the bottom
of
> the spar (edgewise!) right in the middle of the wing. This obviously did
> not give very much glue joint area as compared to the normal flat to flat
> minimum of 10 to 1 scarf, with a minimum of 12 to 1 recommended. As
> 43.13-1A says, "the strength of the joints depend upon maximum contact
> between the surfaces being glued." In addition, BHP did not install
> plywood reinforcement plates on the top and bottom of the spars where the
> scarf joints emerged, nor on the faces of the spars
>
> The BHP method of 5/1 splice gives a total glue surface of perhaps 25 to 3
0
> sq. inches. The traditional flat to flat system gives a total glue
surface
> of some 57 sq. inches, and this does not include the mandatory splice
plates.
>
> The 1932 Manual plans show that this glued spar splice had three bolt
holes
> (sizes not stated) from top to bottom within the splice ("Bolts and
> washers") plus three more bolt holes fore and aft through the spar joint
in
> a place that did not impinge on the three vertical bolt holes. These six
> bolts (3 top to bottom and 3 fore and aft) did not attach to anything
> else. It appears that they simply were there to strengthen the splice.
AC
> 43.13-1A states "A spar may be spliced at any point except under wing
> attachment fittings, landing gear fittings,engine-mount fittings, or
> lift-and-interplane fittings. Do not permit these fittings to overlap any
> part of the splice."
>
> It is true that the cabane strut attachments did not impinge on the
splice,
> since the cabanes are about 24 inches apart (as wide as the
> fuselage). This may have been the determining factor in BHP's 5 to 1
scarf
> joint. The cabane strut fittings fall just outside the ends of BHP's
> scarf joint. As the 1932 Manual describes the unrouted area of the spars
> in the center area,"Full section for 30."
>
> The later 3-3-34 O.C.Hoopman plans show the same basic dimensions for the
> spars (1" x 4 3/4" plank) with a 4 to 1 scarf joint, with the note "Nail,
> bolt and glue wing splice." These plans show two "1/4" bolts" top to
> bottom of the spar, each located about 2 3/8" either side of the
> centerline of the splice. The 1934 plans show no bolts for and aft in
> the spar splice. The plans do show that two "8 penney nails" are driven
> into the spar near the scarf ends. So the spar splice is truly "nailed,
> bolted, and glued."
> These are the plans that are still being sold by Don Pietenpol.
>
> The "1933 Flying Manual" (actually the "1933 Flying and Glider Manual")
> shows the Sky Scout as using the same style and sizes of wing spars, with
> no splice at all. The total wingspan on the Sky Scout is some 27' 3"
> compared to 28' 2" for the Air Camper. A pair of Sky Scout one-piece
spars
> each over 27 feet long must be pretty expensive. But this confirms what
> you always hear about the Piet plans - you have to improvise as you build,
> because they do have missing information.
>
> I would not fear the use of your proposed glued-up plywood web with the
fir
> caps.
>
> I cite all this not because you must be a stickler for "FAA compliance,"
> but because when we build an airplane today, we should use the accumulated
> experience available to us. I doubt that you would find an EAA Tech
> Counselor who would be happy with the BHP splice system today. In the
USA,
> the FAA inspector's primary inspection task for an "Experimental" airplane
> is to identify the aircraft (not to certify the airworthiness). An FAA
> inspector might give you a very strong recommendation against the BHP spar
> splice method, but could not withhold issuing "Experimental"
> certification. I don't know how the Canadian inspector would react. But
> when you get all through, regardless of the regulations, this is a flying
> machine and you will be in it. So it still boils down to CYA. And maybe
> the A of a loved one.
>
> All in all, it would appear that the three-piece wing is a lot easier to
> build (who has a 30 foot shop?) and a whole lot easier to disassemble and
> store. And you can install some dihedral if you want. The Spirit of St.
> Louis has a one piece wing, supposedly to save weight, but it still is a
> terribly heavy rig. I don't know if dihedral would have helped, but the
> replica is a beast to fly.
>
> Have at it, Wayne.
>
> Doc Mosher
> Oshkosh USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 50 year old fork-ends .........question!! |
In a message dated 8/7/00 6:10:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< What do ya'll think about using cut threads?
Thanks,
\
Bert
>>
Cut threads are totally unacceptable for fork ends, as well as for any
application that is in tension.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cat or scat? |
Walter,
I would use the red-orange colored SCAT tubing in the engine compartment,
it's the type that is heat resistant. CAT tubing works okay where there's
low heat like for fresh-air ducting.
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Wheels and brakes for sale 6 X 6 Cleveland |
<< I have a set of cleveland brakes and 6 X6 whells for sale. $200 plus
shipping
>
>william koucky
>Hi william I like to have the set please let me have your adress to mail
check t o . kindly advise shipping charges with ups or mail. also tell me
condition and from what ac did they comeyou can email above requested info.
Walter fuller 141 lakeside terrace hiawassee, ga 30546 tel 706 8965068
thanks. >>
I have another person who is in front of you but he has not replied. If I do
not hear from him by tomorrow the wheels arer yours. They came of a Chief or
something like that as I remember. I bought the parts three or four years
ago from a man in Ohio.
William
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Rolled thread, Always use. |
Bert- Excellent point about the lift strut fork end fittings.
You want to avoid the cut threads and use rolled threads.
They are easy to spot when held side by side or using
a magnifying glass. Our IA showed me the difference and
we picked out 4 that had rolled threads. Same goes for lacing up
wire wheels for your Piet. Avoid trying to cut down and thread your
own to save money.....go to a reputable bike shop and have them
order them...or in some cases they have the rolling dies and a machine
on site. I had a local shop farm my spoke work out to Buchannens
in CA. This way the word "airplane" was never used and the work was
done without rejection.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Candy Drop Hits Target |
For you guys in the trenches wiping off epoxy from your
hands late at night, running your shop vac to pickup sawdust
so you can find your tools buried somewhere underneath,
and burning your fingers on a steel fitting you just finished
grinding the saw marks off of, this story is for you.
The other day a friend asked me if I would do a candy drop for
his son's little league baseball team's family picnic. He had heard
me tell of doing these candy drops for a local radio control club's
fun-fly picnics for all the children in attendance. The older guys
say that their job for the local Memorial Day and July 4th parades
used to be to drop candy for the kids down main street.
Evidently someone put the squash on doing stuff like that many
years ago, but I still sneak out and do the "as requested" events !
Don told me "you just duct tape the plastic grocery bag to your hand
and wrap the handle ends around your fingers. "
Works like a charm. Craig went to Wal-Mart and picked up a a bag
of mixed candy and suckers about the size of a big rock mellon.
I got directions for the party and he assured me there was a "big open
grassy area" behind the house. A seven acre lot with a house and
garage. "Can't miss it, " he said. Luckily a few late afternoon
showers cleared out and I headed out to the Piet. I did the preflight
and off we went. Me and the candy. Sure enough, a nice grassy
area behind the house. Huge, actually. I told him to keep all the
kids by the house until I had dropped the load. There must have
been 25 kids huddled between the pool and house.
I did a low pass about 150 feet up with the smoke on to tease them
and check out any odd wind currents. On the second pass I set
the throttle, lined up for the grass at about 90 feet and leveled off.
The roof, chimney, and pool flashed out my left side where I had
the bag perched on the left longerong. As soon as the pool was
out of sight I shook the bag and let the propblast do the rest.
Looked like flack glittering to the ground with the sun hitting some
of those foil-wrapped hard candies !
Full throttle and a slow climbing left turn. It was a mad dash of
little feet and tennis shoes headed for the same destination.
"About 50 feet wide and 100 feet long" Craig told me the next
day at work. Just right. What fun !!!! You can't do a ton of things
with a Pietenpol like take the family to Florida, or do wild aerobatics,
but you can do stuff like this. (and they can't !) You can't get a Mooney
down to 45 mph and still be 15 mph above the stall speed !!!!!!
So keep burning your fingers and picking glue out of your hair in the
shower.....it's all going to pay off in the end !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Candy Drop Hits Target |
Don told me "you just duct tape the plastic grocery bag to your hand
and wrap the handle ends around your fingers. "
Must be interesting trying to fly with your hand stuck to a big wad of
candy.... :)
Maybe he meant strut?
Steve E....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Mike: that saw dust and glue gets in the blood, What's your next
project?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Candy Drop Hits Target |
Good story Michael... Ahhh, the low and slow. The creative things you can
do.... I'll have to try that at our ball field at the summer rec bbq next
year. I have a friend who still can't figure out who tps his giant oak tree
every halloween. Seems that all the tp is in the top of the tree too. How
does someone do that from the ground. The tree is absolutly huge. He has
come up with all kinds of crazy roll launcher ideas but can figure out how
someone does that. Luckly he has never seen me go to the airport with a
large package of tp. ;-)
It will be easier in a Piet than in a open ultralight for sure. For one
thing I can take more than two rolls with worring about getting it all over
the airplane and in the pusher prop.
There is nothing like seeing a roll of tp unrolling at 45 mph in a shollow
dive.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Candy Drop Hits Target
>
> For you guys in the trenches wiping off epoxy from your
> hands late at night, running your shop vac to pickup sawdust
> so you can find your tools buried somewhere underneath,
> and burning your fingers on a steel fitting you just finished
> grinding the saw marks off of, this story is for you.
>
> The other day a friend asked me if I would do a candy drop for
> his son's little league baseball team's family picnic. He had heard
> me tell of doing these candy drops for a local radio control club's
> fun-fly picnics for all the children in attendance. The older guys
> say that their job for the local Memorial Day and July 4th parades
> used to be to drop candy for the kids down main street.
> Evidently someone put the squash on doing stuff like that many
> years ago, but I still sneak out and do the "as requested" events !
> Don told me "you just duct tape the plastic grocery bag to your hand
> and wrap the handle ends around your fingers. "
> Works like a charm. Craig went to Wal-Mart and picked up a a bag
> of mixed candy and suckers about the size of a big rock mellon.
> I got directions for the party and he assured me there was a "big open
> grassy area" behind the house. A seven acre lot with a house and
> garage. "Can't miss it, " he said. Luckily a few late afternoon
> showers cleared out and I headed out to the Piet. I did the preflight
> and off we went. Me and the candy. Sure enough, a nice grassy
> area behind the house. Huge, actually. I told him to keep all the
> kids by the house until I had dropped the load. There must have
> been 25 kids huddled between the pool and house.
> I did a low pass about 150 feet up with the smoke on to tease them
> and check out any odd wind currents. On the second pass I set
> the throttle, lined up for the grass at about 90 feet and leveled off.
> The roof, chimney, and pool flashed out my left side where I had
> the bag perched on the left longerong. As soon as the pool was
> out of sight I shook the bag and let the propblast do the rest.
> Looked like flack glittering to the ground with the sun hitting some
> of those foil-wrapped hard candies !
> Full throttle and a slow climbing left turn. It was a mad dash of
> little feet and tennis shoes headed for the same destination.
> "About 50 feet wide and 100 feet long" Craig told me the next
> day at work. Just right. What fun !!!! You can't do a ton of things
> with a Pietenpol like take the family to Florida, or do wild aerobatics,
> but you can do stuff like this. (and they can't !) You can't get a
Mooney
> down to 45 mph and still be 15 mph above the stall speed !!!!!!
> So keep burning your fingers and picking glue out of your hair in the
> shower.....it's all going to pay off in the end !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 08/07/00 |
I'm preparing to make the maiden flight in an Grega Aircamper with a 65 HP
Cont engine. You more exprienced folks will recognize this as a tail heavy
aircraft especially if it is built with a stock J3 engine mount such as ours.
I am an A&P mechanic, and experienced builder which makes me confident that
the weighing that we completed is accurate. We have added lead sheet, rolled
and clamped around the engine mount tubes to get the CG inside the aft limit.
I am preparing to test fly the airplane, my 23rd maiden flight in everything
from Quickies to BD4s, and Glassairs. I am a current tailwheel instructor
(PA12) so I feel confident about my tailwheel skills. I did not build this
airplane. I was asked to test hop it by the AI who oversaw the construction
by the young man who owns it. The AI built a Tailwind which he still flies
regulary.
I'm asking for comments on two issues: How far aft are you flying your
aircraft and What kind of handling should I expect?
Joe Gauthier n22607(at)aol.com (860) 635-4058 CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol weight and balance
(http://members.aol.com/gmaclaren/wb.html)
This page from the BPA newsletter may be of some interest to our members &
in respone to a question from Joe Gauther
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
The results are in . . .
by
Jack Broomall
22200 Heatheridge Lane
Northville, MI 48167
and
Don Verdiani
103 Lockerbie Lane
West Chester, PA 19382
Those of you who were fortunate enough to attend Brodhead '94 may know that
we were able to measure weight and center of gravity information for eight
of the aircraft attending the event.
The reason for undertaking this exercise was to provide a bank of
information that Piet builders could refer to and use in configuring their
aircraft. Over the past several years we have noticed that there are a
variety of types of Air Campers flying with different engines, at least two
common fuselage lengths, different wing positions, and different flying
characteristics (if you doubt this take a close look at the various aircraft
taking off and landing at Brodhead!). Collecting the weight and balance
information on a number of flying aircraft seemed like a good way to gain
some insight in this area.
The data table (below) summarizes the most important information which was
accumulated.
We were fortunate to be able to inspect examples of each of the three most
common powerplants (Ford, Corvair, and Continental).
In the third column we categorize the fuselage as 'short' (the original
design) or long (the so-called 'improved' air camper).
In column 4 we show the aircraft's empty weight. In each case the aircraft
was presented for weighing with some amount of fuel on board. We asked each
owner to estimate how much fuel was in the aircraft, and then corrected to
an empty weight using that estimate and the standard value of 6 lbs. per
gallon for gasoline.
While there is some degree of 'estimating' in these numbers, we are
comfortable that they are reasonably accurate.
In the fifth column, we show the empty aircraft's center of gravity location
with respect to the wing leading edge. We chose the wing leading edge as a
datum because it was the best way to normalize the data to a large variety
of aircraft and also because that's what Mr. Pietenpol used!
For comparative purposes there is a published weight and balance summary,
done in 1965, showing a Corvair powered Air Camper with an empty C.G. 8.71
inches aft of datum. Very few of us fly airplanes empty, with no passengers!
Fortunatly, using the data we collected, we are able to calculate center of
gravity location for any loading condition.
In the sixth column, we show the calculated C.G. location when the aircraft
was loaded with an FAA standard 170 pound pilot in the back seat, and 7
gallons of fuel in the 'main' fuel tank. This might represent a 'typical'
loading for pilot only. Since we weighed some aircraft with both wing tanks
and fueslage tanks we elected to (mathematically) put the 7 gallons of fuel
in whichever tank was bigger. Again a comparison is available.
The previously mentioned weight and balance chart included a C.G.
calculation for that aircraft with 7 gallons of fuel and a 166 pound pilot
on board (Did BHP weigh 166 pounds?). His example aircraft has a C.G. 9.51"
aft of datum in that loading condition.
As a final set of calculations we've shown aircraft weight and C.G. location
when each aircraft is loaded with a 170 pilot, a 170 pound passenger, and
it's fuel tank(s) full. These weights are shown in column G and the C.G.
location is in column H. We found these weights interesting in that some of
the aircraft have surprisingly high gross weights. Also, there are several
aircraft which, in one loading condition or another, seem to violate BHP's
recommendation to never exceed 20" aft of datum C.G. (also shown in the 1965
weight and balance sheet).
Because of the conditions under which all of our information was collected
and because there was no chance to double check any measurements there is
some real chance that there may be errors in our analysis. However, there is
enough consistency in the data to feel fairly confident about it's accuracy.
We would like to thank all the fine folks at Brodhead for helping us with
this project. And special thanks are due to the eight aircraft owners who
donated their aircraft as well as their time and help. We'd like to think
this activity has produced information of real value to the community of
Pietenpol builders and pilots! Anyone who has any questions can feel free to
contact either of us at the addresses above.
Pietenpol Weight & Balance
Brodhead -1994
Tail
Number Engine
Type Fuselage
Length Empty
Weight CG
empty / inches
aft of datum CG
w/170# pilot
& 7 gal. fuel Wt. w/170# pilot
& 170# pass
& 7 gal. fuel CG w/170# pilot
& 170# pass
& 7 gal. fuel
N444MH Ford 'A' Short 648 7.49 17.72 1048 18.83
NX13691 Ford 'A' Short 676 11.83 21.04 1088 22.02
NX4662T Ford 'A' Short 671 13.69 20.45 1071 20.7
NX5228 Ford 'A' Long 684 6.69 16.16 1084 17.33
C FCMG 0-200 Long 774 15.25 20.42 1208 19.43
N 396S C-85 Long 820 15.2 18.61 1256 16.57
N 687MB 0-200 Long 705 5.59 14.57 1143 15.79
N 778DD Corvair Long 731 9.08 15.93 1191 14.98
----
||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rolled thread, Always use. |
In a message dated 08/08/2000 11:51:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
<< I had a local shop farm my spoke work out to Buchannens
in CA. This way the word "airplane" was never used and the work was
done without rejection.
Mike C. >>
Mike, my experience with Buchanan's goes back to the sixties when they did
wheels for my i930 Buhl Bull Pup and most recently my Piet.
I know of many sets they have done with full knowledge that they were for
a/c. Unless something has happened to spook them in the last year I don't
think they would refuse. Just my 2 cent observation Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rolled thread, Always use. |
I agree, Buchanan's just did a set of wire wheels for me and they are very
knowledgable about aircraft wheels and not at all afraid to do them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
>Mike: that saw dust and glue gets in the blood, What's your next
>project?
Hello Leon !!
Funny you should ask.....I'm tinkering lately with a Bleriot replica but
a suitable powerplant (reliable, of reasonable cost, and a
radial) eludes me.
A 65 Cont. would work but the sound just wouldn't be right.
If that idea falls thru I want something fast....like the new Rans S-16.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
>I agree, Buchanan's just did a set of wire wheels for me and they are very
>knowledgable about aircraft wheels and not at all afraid to do them.
>
>
>Group- This is GOOD news !! The guy at my local shop was skeptical
of mentioning airplane but it's great to hear there are still companies out
there
who will play ball !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
I'll have to get the info from some guys not to far from me that are making
a radial from VW jugs. They are professional engineers and have a nice
looking cast case and crank done already. I haven't seen it run but a guy
from a local chapter has. It is supposed to be cheaper than a rotax hp for
hp. If I run across it I'll pass it on. I thought a radial on the Piet
would be sweet. I remember seeing one at Osh in '92. Looked real nice and
sounded great.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Candy drop
>
Stefan)
> >
> >Mike: that saw dust and glue gets in the blood, What's your next
> >project?
>
> Hello Leon !!
>
> Funny you should ask.....I'm tinkering lately with a Bleriot replica but
> a suitable powerplant (reliable, of reasonable cost, and a
> radial) eludes me.
> A 65 Cont. would work but the sound just wouldn't be right.
> If that idea falls thru I want something fast....like the new Rans S-16.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
If they are HCI the engine is great, a little spencif
for my budget, plans are good but you need a good
lathe helper is a 5 cilinder... now they may have
available the 7 cilinder ~ 120 HP option...
Great project(S) You build the plane, the propeller
and the engine...
Just have to produce your own gasoline :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Greg Yotz wrote:
>
>
> I'll have to get the info from some guys not to far
> from me that are making
> a radial from VW jugs. They are professional
> engineers and have a nice
> looking cast case and crank done already. I haven't
> seen it run but a guy
> from a local chapter has. It is supposed to be
> cheaper than a rotax hp for
> hp. If I run across it I'll pass it on. I thought
> a radial on the Piet
> would be sweet. I remember seeing one at Osh in
> '92. Looked real nice and
> sounded great.
>
> Greg
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 7:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Candy drop
>
>
> Cuy
>
> >
> leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon
> Stefan)
> > >
> > >Mike: that saw dust and glue gets in the blood,
> What's your next
> > >project?
> >
> > Hello Leon !!
> >
> > Funny you should ask.....I'm tinkering lately with
> a Bleriot replica but
> > a suitable powerplant (reliable, of reasonable
> cost, and a
> > radial) eludes me.
> > A 65 Cont. would work but the sound just wouldn't
> be right.
> > If that idea falls thru I want something
> fast....like the new Rans S-16.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | progress is good |
For those that are interested, here is a folder with images from my
current state of building. With my new job (working from home) I am
able to put in at least 3.5 - 4 hours a day on it. Starting to get
there now!
http://24.95.2.7/AirCamper/myprogress/
Cheers,
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
Hey gang,
My plane is in annual and I am going to replace the
spark plugs in the Cont. A-80 engine. Anybody
know of a good source to buy plugs? If not, I may
go ahead and order from Aircraft Spruce.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
214 905-9299
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jared wilkinson <jared_wilkinson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: progress is good |
Mr. Decosta:
I am curious about your home-business. I am
looking to start a home-based business. I am an
engineer for a large company, and am considering
starting a drafting firm. I am just wondering what
you do, and if you have any pointers. Any help,
advice, etc. would be appreciated.
P.S. My wife is considering doing web page design
from home, too.
Sincerely,
Jared Wilkinson
--- Richard DeCosta wrote:
> DeCosta
>
> For those that are interested, here is a folder with
> images from my
> current state of building. With my new job (working
> from home) I am
> able to put in at least 3.5 - 4 hours a day on it.
> Starting to get
> there now!
>
> http://24.95.2.7/AirCamper/myprogress/
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 08/08/00 |
Michael,
Thanks for the Wt&Bal.... I'll look it over carefully.....Let you know how
the flight goes.
Joe Gauthier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrea Vavassori" <redbaron(at)mediacom.it> |
Hello to all on the List!
Finally I have a reason to come out of my lurking and join the
discussion. As some of you might (with a big capital M, in fact)
remember, my father, who helped me through the costruction of my
Volksplane VP-1, has recently started a Pietenpol Air Camper on his
own, and I'm keeping him in touch with all other listers since he
misses any knowledge of the English language. So far, he has cut to
size all the material using european white spruce, built the wing ribs
and now he's ready to build the tail assembly. And here comes some
justified worrying: both the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual and the 1933
plans lack a lot of measurements and make us suspect of a few errors
also. First, only the stabilator spar dimensions are called out
(1"x3/4") but not those of the elevators and rudder. The 1932 plans
show 1"X5/8" in this respect, but the thickness seems too much as it is
the same thickness of the leading edge itself, lending to an
trapezoid-shaped elevator rather than a triangle-shaped elevator as it
should be, in our opinion. What sections did you use? Moreover, there's
no measure regarding placement of elevator and rudder horns... any
comment on this also?
SeeYa!
Andrea Vavassori
Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA
First Flight July 25th, 1999
EAA #348037
CAP #1080
IHA #52
Homepage: http://www.modelberg.com
I-BYRA homepage: http://www.modelberg.com/vp.html (under construction)
ICQ #15014472
snail mail: Via Moroni, 66
I-24122 BERGAMO
ITALY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the face !
E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
company.
I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
Bob
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good News !
>Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:54:12 -0400
>
>
>
> >
> >I agree, Buchanan's just did a set of wire wheels for me and they are
>very
> >knowledgable about aircraft wheels and not at all afraid to do them.
> >
> >
> >Group- This is GOOD news !! The guy at my local shop was skeptical
>of mentioning airplane but it's great to hear there are still companies out
>there
>who will play ball !
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Buchanan's is close to where I live. Let me know what you want done and
I'll help if I can. They have done two wheels for me with the 9 gauge stainless
spokes without any problem.
Warren
oil can wrote:
>
> I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the face !
>
> E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
> company.
>
> I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
>
> I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
>
> Bob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
I phoned Buchanans, gave them a verbal description of what I wanted, they told
me what I needed and how much it cost.
I followed this with a letter and a check for the quoted amount.
No problems.
Greg Cardinal
>>> "oil can" 08/10 9:38 AM >>>
I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the face !
E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
company.
I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
Bob
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good News !
>Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:54:12 -0400
>
>
>
> >
> >I agree, Buchanan's just did a set of wire wheels for me and they are
>very
> >knowledgable about aircraft wheels and not at all afraid to do them.
> >
> >
> >Group- This is GOOD news !! The guy at my local shop was skeptical
>of mentioning airplane but it's great to hear there are still companies out
>there
>who will play ball !
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
Speaking of wheels- is there anyone who I can go to and just buy a
completed pair of wire wheels for my Piet, ready to go on the gear? I
am buying all my metal fittings from Replicraft, and would like to do
the same for my wheels.
I'd also like such a company listed on the supplier page of
AirCamper.org.
Richard
--- Greg Cardinal wrote:
>
>
> I phoned Buchanans, gave them a verbal description of what I wanted,
> they told me what I needed and how much it cost.
> I followed this with a letter and a check for the quoted amount.
> No problems.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
>
> >>> "oil can" 08/10 9:38 AM >>>
>
>
> I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the
> face !
>
> E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
> company.
>
> I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
>
> I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
>
> Bob
>
>
> >From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good News !
> >Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:54:12 -0400
> >
> >
> >
>
> > >
> > >I agree, Buchanan's just did a set of wire wheels for me and they
> are
> >very
> > >knowledgable about aircraft wheels and not at all afraid to do
> them.
> > >
> > >
> > >Group- This is GOOD news !! The guy at my local shop was
> skeptical
> >of mentioning airplane but it's great to hear there are still
> companies out
> >there
> >who will play ball !
> >
> >Mike C.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Back to the discussion last week about weight savings on routing. I routed
mine last night, collected the shavings and weighed them on a sensitive
scale at work. It totaled 8lb 2 oz. for all four pieces. I did them on
my table saw with a dato blade set to 3/16".
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "oil can" <oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com> |
I might just take you up on that Warren. First, maybe I'll contact Buchanans
again to see if they really have changed their minds about doing a/c wheels.
My hubs are done in steel, and bushed, ready to go, but lately I've been
building a redrive on my lathe for ea-81 soob, so might just turn some
hubs from alum and set bearings in them. Then send those off for spoke
wheels instead of using the clunky old steel ones.
Bob
>From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buchanan's
>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:56:22 -0700
>
>
>
> Buchanan's is close to where I live. Let me know what you want done
>and
>I'll help if I can. They have done two wheels for me with the 9 gauge
>stainless
>spokes without any problem.
>Warren
>
>oil can wrote:
>
> >
> > I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the face
>!
> >
> > E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
> > company.
> >
> > I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
> >
> > I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
> >
> > Bob.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodflier(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Drag/anti-drag wires |
I used 11 ga. mild steel wire for my drag wires, bending it around cable
shackles at the attach points and splicing an eye with nicopress sleeves,
with turnbuckles at the mid-span fittings. But after talking to a guy who
built several Piets who said I should replace them, I'm less sure about
leaving them in the airplane. Plans call for 14 ga. hard wire. I hadn't been
able to find any of that, so I though thicker mild steel wire would do. Now
I'm not as confident in that decision.
I have some 1/8" stainless control cable and enough thimbles and nicopress
sleeves to redo all the drag wires. What's the opinion of this knowledgeable
group?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Hopkins" <hopkinsp(at)southwestern.edu> |
Hello all,
I'm new to the list, thought I would say hello, and, of course, ask a couple of
questions. I started flying when I was young, catching the bug, like most I
suppose, as a child. Lessons were few and far between on my grocery stockers
wages as a teenager. At 19 (FAR too young) I married, and my new father-in-law
owned a 172! What a marriage, huh?! There went the lessons, flying more regularly
than ever with him. The problem came when my wife divorced me a few years
later.
Since, I've managed to slip the bonds in different ways, in hang gliders, in sailplanes,
with friends, but only occasionally. All the while, I dreamt of building
my own plane and getting back into the air. My fondest memory of flying
was of flying in a PT19 owned by a friend of my father-in-law. Those big ol'
wings and the open cockpit. What an experience. I've always loved those old
planes. Wood and fabric and wind. What a combination!!!
As a woodworker, and as a confirmed anything old nut (I've got a complete 19th
c. hand tool shop of tools that I've reconditioned and use constantly), I've been
eyeing the Piet for some time. Seeing one in the flesh at a museum in Minnesota
on vacation this summer was a treat.
Anyway, having a wonderful grass airport just 10 minutes down a country road from
me, I'm ready to start. Piet builders seem to me to be a generous and friendly
group.
Now to the questions. I've perused the faqs, I promise, and haven't found the
answers. I've heard hints of problematic stall characteristics on Piets, but
haven't heard any details. Something about the flat underwing.... Also, I'm
curious about the landing behaviour and ground control. How does the Piet compare,
say, to the J3 (one of which is at that grass strip available for training!!!)?
The climb rate concerns me some (as does the limited payload in a two-place
plane). Does using a Franklin, or a Cont 65-85 help out on the climb?
I'm in love with the slow speed envelope and slow cruise of the Piet, but wouldn't
mind better climb, especially at gross, which, with any passenger, should
happen a lot. I've not been able to find VNE or ultimate stress figures for
the Piet.
That's enough questions, I suppose. Any info will be greatly appreciated. If
anyone is building or flying a Piet in the Central Texas area, I'd love to hear
from you and perhaps arrange a visit to drool and ahhhhh over your plane. :-}
Phil Hopkins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Where in central Texas?
Corky in Shreveport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
Phil,
I am in Dallas. Give me a call at 214 905-9299
for a look at my GN-1. Though not a true
PIET, it is a good plane and should give some
idea of what you can expect. I keep it at
O'Brien's near Waxahachie.
Good luck to you.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Hopkins <hopkinsp(at)southwestern.edu>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: questions
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm new to the list, thought I would say hello, and, of course, ask a
couple of questions. I started flying when I was young, catching the bug,
like most I suppose, as a child. Lessons were few and far between on my
grocery stockers wages as a teenager. At 19 (FAR too young) I married, and
my new father-in-law owned a 172! What a marriage, huh?! There went the
lessons, flying more regularly than ever with him. The problem came when my
wife divorced me a few years later.
>
> Since, I've managed to slip the bonds in different ways, in hang gliders,
in sailplanes, with friends, but only occasionally. All the while, I dreamt
of building my own plane and getting back into the air. My fondest memory
of flying was of flying in a PT19 owned by a friend of my father-in-law.
Those big ol' wings and the open cockpit. What an experience. I've always
loved those old planes. Wood and fabric and wind. What a combination!!!
>
> As a woodworker, and as a confirmed anything old nut (I've got a complete
19th c. hand tool shop of tools that I've reconditioned and use constantly),
I've been eyeing the Piet for some time. Seeing one in the flesh at a
museum in Minnesota on vacation this summer was a treat.
>
> Anyway, having a wonderful grass airport just 10 minutes down a country
road from me, I'm ready to start. Piet builders seem to me to be a generous
and friendly group.
>
> Now to the questions. I've perused the faqs, I promise, and haven't found
the answers. I've heard hints of problematic stall characteristics on
Piets, but haven't heard any details. Something about the flat
underwing.... Also, I'm curious about the landing behaviour and ground
control. How does the Piet compare, say, to the J3 (one of which is at that
grass strip available for training!!!)? The climb rate concerns me some (as
does the limited payload in a two-place plane). Does using a Franklin, or a
Cont 65-85 help out on the climb? I'm in love with the slow speed envelope
and slow cruise of the Piet, but wouldn't mind better climb, especially at
gross, which, with any passenger, should happen a lot. I've not been able
to find VNE or ultimate stress figures for the Piet.
>
> That's enough questions, I suppose. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
If anyone is building or flying a Piet in the Central Texas area, I'd love
to hear from you and perhaps arrange a visit to drool and ahhhhh over your
plane. :-}
>
> Phil Hopkins
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cat or scat? |
SCAT. The Cat is double walled and there is a tendency sometimes for the
inner wall to pull loose which can block off the air flow. There was an
AD note, no longer active, against the Beech Muskateer several years ago
on this.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: carb heat box size? |
Walter,
I went out yesterday to work on a Taylorcraft with an A-65. The heat
box measures 2 1/2" high and 4" wide. The lenght would depend on your
installation. I don't believe these measurements are any different than
any other such airplane.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail assembly |
Andrea,
We built ours according to the plans; worked out great. The only
problem is to remember the different thicknesses and set up a center
line. We did this by makinh a fixture on a piece of plywood and using
shimms to lift the narrower pieces. Once we got this figured out, it was
easy.
It's best just to follow the plans; they're really well done. The only
problems we've encountered is that the forward fuslage lower cross member
can't go all the way across as it interfers with the engine mount- we're
using a Model A. Also, there is a top cross member which the plans show
go all the way across between longerons at the top of the forward seat.
This will interfer with the aft cabane strut fittings, so we cut it off
to make room and added another cross member a little lower. We haven't
glued or bolted our ash engine bearers yet as we haven't bought an engine
yet and the figures given in the plans don't add correctly. We need to
gte an engine so we can measure and see what they are suspossed to be.
That's really the only problems we've run into. Just study the plans
well before hand.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Varnish/DeCosta |
I just got done putting the first coat of varnish on our tail feathers
and used Miniwax Urethane spar varnish which I bought at Builder's
Square. I had planned on putting dope proof varnish on top where we will
glue the fabric on, but yesterday while I was working another guy came up
and said he had used the same varnish on his ultralight, which he covered
with Stits, and had no problems with the varnish lifting.
Before getting too excited about which varnish to use, just remember
that dope is a lacquer and so are many of the glues used to attach
fabric. It's important to know just what the glue you are going to use
is based upon, but if it is lacquer it would be easy enough to make a
simple test to dip a stirring stick or something like that into the
varnish, let it dry, and then see what lacquer thinner does to it. If
there is any reaction, it will be almost immediate. Dope and many other
paints dry by having their solvents evaporate out and it is the solvents
that will affect varnish or any other paint. If the wet dope or Super
Seam Cement does not immediately lift the lacquer, it will last the life
of the fabric and beyond.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/anti-drag wires |
Max, I'm using the braided control cable like most people, I guess.
You can get the hard wire at Aircraft Spruce. You can get a free catalog at
their site, if you don't already have one.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com <Woodflier(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, August 11, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drag/anti-drag wires
>
>I used 11 ga. mild steel wire for my drag wires, bending it around cable
>shackles at the attach points and splicing an eye with nicopress sleeves,
>with turnbuckles at the mid-span fittings. But after talking to a guy who
>built several Piets who said I should replace them, I'm less sure about
>leaving them in the airplane. Plans call for 14 ga. hard wire. I hadn't
been
>able to find any of that, so I though thicker mild steel wire would do. Now
>I'm not as confident in that decision.
>
>I have some 1/8" stainless control cable and enough thimbles and nicopress
>sleeves to redo all the drag wires. What's the opinion of this
knowledgeable
>group?
>
>Matt Paxton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
>Phil Hopkins wrote:
>
>Now to the questions. I've perused the faqs, I promise, and haven't found
>the answers. I've heard hints of problematic stall characteristics on
>Piets, but haven't heard any details. Something about the flat underwing...
Phil- If rigged properly there are no adverse stall characteristics
in a Pietenpol. The wing has an undercamber- actually very pleasing
to the eye. Loading and CG- You may of course cause the Piet
to have problems in the stall by loading it or flying it in excess of the
aft CG limit or overweight on a hot day.
>. Also, I'm curious about the landing behaviour and ground control. How
>does the Piet compare, say, to the J3 (one of which is at that grass strip
>available for training!!!)?
Piets are very docile in ground handling, much like Cubs and Champs,
except if one builds in mis-aligned axles.....like toe-in and out problems.
This is more common with the welded steel gear than the straight
axle. The straight axle gear is a no-brainer as far as alignment and
tracking is very honest. Tailwheel problems cause more
trouble though I've seen than gear problems.
Piets are actually (at least it seems to me) more responsive than Cubs.
A little more agile feeling- unless you are using Ford power.
The slower speeds with the Ford make the controls feels less responsive,
as one would expect, but the faster you go with Continental or Corvair,
Sub. powerplants, you'll feel the controls become more crisp.
BOTH are fun though !!!!!! There is something just wonderful about
flying a Ford Piet...but it's not for everyone....then again the Corvair or
Continental are great flyers too. All versions are fun, that is for sure.
There are just differences- and your choices will give you these
differences.
> The climb rate concerns me some (as does the limited payload in a
> two-place plane). Does using a Franklin, or a Cont 65-85 help out on the
> climb?
If you build LIGHT even a Ford Piet can do ok on a 75 F day with 2
adults of average size. If your empty weight is excessive you have
to make concessions on payload. Keep it light it the key here, not
necessarily what engine you use. A Cont. 65 or larger (like 0-200)
certainly gives you more climb and shortens takeoff distances, but
the plane has its limitations and should be built with those in mind.
Even with a Continental, these planes are slow. They are no fun to
fly on windy days or days with lots of convective heating. You can
do it, but it's no fun. You have to keep in mind that this design
is from the early 1930's and still gives a great run for the money
against Cubs and such......but they do have limits and if you accept
those up front, you won't be disappointed later.
> I'm in love with the slow speed envelope and slow cruise of the Piet,
> but wouldn't mind better climb, especially at gross, which, with any
> passenger, should happen a lot. I've not been able to find VNE or
> ultimate stress figures for the Piet.
This is nothing to loose sleep over. The plane will take you thru
rough turbulence, hard landings, and won't know the difference.
As long as you use decent building materials and follow the
plans you will have a sound structure and reliable aircraft for
many years to enjoy. Many builders like to "beef-up" things on
the Piet because they just don't think this or that looks
strong enough. That is fine, but totally unnecessary
and your performance will suffer. There are many (who are
very knowledgeable in these areas of structural integrity.)
who say that the design is already over-built to some degree
and should need no further help.
Glad to hear you are seriously considering building a Piet, Phil
and you questions are great. Now is the time to get all the
info you can, read the archives, pick brains, look at as many
flying PIets or Piet projects as you can. Start out armed and
dangerous !!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
>Phil- If rigged properly there are no adverse stall characteristics
>in a Pietenpol. >
>
>. Also, I'm curious about the landing behaviour and ground control. How
>>does the Piet compare, say, to the J3 (one of which is at that grass strip
>>available for training!!!)?
>
>Piets are very docile in ground handling>tracking is very honest.
Tailwheel problems cause more
>trouble>
I second what Mike C has said. Stalls are gental & straight foward. . Mine
stalls at about 38mph.
Ground handling is no problem. The Piet will turn just about in its own
length. Roll outs are straight ahead. In my opinion, better that a cub.
I think the tailwheel problems happen because the tailwheel springs are not
tight enough
Mike B Piet N6987MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Hopkins" <hopkinsp(at)southwestern.edu> |
| Subject: | Re:Wonderful resopnses |
Hello All
Thanks for all the good responses to my questions. It looks as if I've found good
company! I look forward to reading the list and learning lots! I also look
forward to seeing some of the Piets in the area from those who responded.
I'm in Georgetown, Corky, just north of Austin. And Michael, I'll be calling
you soon. I'm gonna be driving through Waxahachie tomorrow, actually, but will
have family in tow!
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
> >Piets are very docile in ground handling>tracking is very
honest.
> Tailwheel problems cause more
> >trouble>
Mike, could you put a bit more description on the type of
troubles one might experience, and how to judge when the tail
wing springs have the "right" tension?
I am planning to couple the tail wheel cable to the rudder cable
just outside the fuselage envelope.
I looked at a "one design" at Kakabeka Falls the other day. (It
one the best design contest a few years back) and it had slack
tail wheel cables. It was a bipe, and performed well. What would
the difference be? The Piet definitely has a wider stance, and I
have elected to go with the Cub style bungee gear, rather than
the crossover type on the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: progress is good |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
> For those that are interested, here is a folder with images from my
> current state of building.
Thanks for the picture of the wedges in the fuselage. I just glued my
wedges in last night and was hopping I had made them the right size.
Mine are the same size as yours. Thanks for taking pictures of the
little things as well as the big.
I now have both fuselage sides glued up. I am now trying to get up the
nerve to cut up my expensive plywood. I cant wait untill this thing
starts to look like a fuselage.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: progress is good |
Chris,
Consider waiting to cut and attach your plywood until after you have
joined the two sides and installed the seats. The bending of the sides is
less stressful (for you and the structure) and you have much better access
for quality work on all of the internals stuff.
Cheers,
Warren
Chris A Tracy wrote:
>
>
> > For those that are interested, here is a folder with images from my
> > current state of building.
>
> Thanks for the picture of the wedges in the fuselage. I just glued my
> wedges in last night and was hopping I had made them the right size.
> Mine are the same size as yours. Thanks for taking pictures of the
> little things as well as the big.
>
> I now have both fuselage sides glued up. I am now trying to get up the
> nerve to cut up my expensive plywood. I cant wait untill this thing
> starts to look like a fuselage.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Holland <iholland@microage-tb.com>
Date: Saturday, August 12, 2000 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
<iholland@microage-tb.com>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 7:58 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
>
>> >Piets are very docile in ground handling>tracking is very
>honest.
>> Tailwheel problems cause more
>> >trouble>
>
>Mike, could you put a bit more description on the type of
>troubles one might experience, and how to judge when the tail
>wing springs have the "right" tension?
Well Ian, I have no deep enginering evidence to offer. From my observations,
it sems that slack tailwheel springs makes for a tendency to ground loop.
The more tension the springs the more positive control one has of the
tailwheel. My springs are tight.
FYI, my cables go directly to the rudder bar. They are not swaged to the
rudder cables.My tailwheel is modified to fit the Piet coil spring. It has
been working well for the past 12 years.
MikeB Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, Mike.
I am going to rethink the attachment points. It's hard to ignore
12 years of experience.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Holland <iholland@microage-tb.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, August 12, 2000 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
>
>
> <iholland@microage-tb.com>
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
> >To:
> >Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 7:58 PM
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions
> >
> >> >Piets are very docile in ground handling>tracking is very
> >honest.
> >> Tailwheel problems cause more
> >> >trouble>
> >
> >Mike, could you put a bit more description on the type of
> >troubles one might experience, and how to judge when the tail
> >wing springs have the "right" tension?
>
> Well Ian, I have no deep enginering evidence to offer. From my
observations,
> it sems that slack tailwheel springs makes for a tendency to
ground loop.
> The more tension the springs the more positive control one has
of the
> tailwheel. My springs are tight.
> FYI, my cables go directly to the rudder bar. They are not
swaged to the
> rudder cables.My tailwheel is modified to fit the Piet coil
spring. It has
> been working well for the past 12 years.
>
> MikeB Piet N687MB ( Mr sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOEL CARROLL <drcarroll_2000(at)yahoo.com> |
to the list:
there have been several inquiries concerning wires. I
now quote from "fundamental shop training" a WW2 pre
=induction book,American Technical Society,1943 pg 38.
"cable wire is made of the best grade.Four kinds or
types of wires are used for airplane work:
1.Flexible hard-stranded cable
2.Extra-flexible cable
3.Hard-drawn wire
4.Wrapping wire
Flexible hard-stranded cable is used for the landing
and flying wires,and for bracing wire in the engine
section. For control purposes,an extra-flexible cable
is used.In making repairs care must be taken not to
use hard-stranded cable for control purposes,not only
because it is too hard,but because it frays badly and
quickly where it passes over pulleys.
In sections that are not easily accessible for
adjustment,such as the inside wing bracing, hard-drawn
wire is used. This type of wire will stretch very
little once it has been put into place." hope this
helps.
as long as i am writing i would like to let the list
know of my wants:
Any one selling 1929,1931 and 1932 originals of the
flying and glider manuals? Also looking for Aircamper
and Sky-Scout plans signed by B.H.P.
THANK YOU. EMAIL ME SEPARATE FROM THE LIST PLEASE. IF
YOU HAVE PERUSED THE ARCHIVES YOU WILL SEE THAT 45% OF
THE MESSAGES ARE PERSONAL MESSAGES.
________________________________________________________________________________
Matt Paxton,
Don't know if anyone addressed your question about having
used mild steel wire for your anti-drag wires but I would vote
for not using the mild steel wire and go with the S/S wire cable.
Our one piece wing is now ready for the anti-drag wiring and
metal fittings. We will go the wire cable route for the anti-drag
wires. However, I did have to re-make all of the cabane lift
attachment brackets...sigh. Figured it was better to make them
as "U" shape pieces, one up and one down, fitted together and
then welded rather than a "U" bracket with the tabs welded on.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel springs, etc.... |
Doc Brusilow is correct.....you really don't want slack
in your tailwheel steering connections, cables, springs.
I had a very serious problem with a tailwheel I bought
called the "homebuilder's special" from Aircraft Spruce.
A nice 6" solid rubber steerable/full swivel unit that would
go into "full swivel" mode way too easily......like right
after touchdown or while rolling out. I ended up in a
mowed straw field the first time and almost rolled the
entire thing into a ball on a paved strip nearby when this
happened. I grounded the plane and yanked the tailwheel
off. Usually there is a detent or resistance point while
steering that once reached lets the wheel go into a full
swivel or pivot mode, but in this case that detent was weak....
so weak that you could move the thing from steerable to
full swivel with one hand. I took the thing apart and ground
out some aluminum from where this detent mechanism
worked to make it really tough for that thing to release
and go into full swivel. Much better. Maule and Scott
tailwheels have the same features but they differ in exactly
how this full swivel thing is accomplished mechanically.
If we were voting here, Maule's are cheaper to buy than
Scott tailwheels but not worth it. Some guys have good luck
w/ Maule's.....but we ended up giving ours away from our
Champ because it gave us fits..everything from shimmying
violently on pavement to not going into or coming out of
full swivel mode. The Scott we put on worked very nicely.
As was noted here earlier, you really just need a steerable
tailwheel on a Piet. There is usually never any need to
pivot on one wheel. I don't miss the full swivel capability
at all on the unit I'm using. Hope this helps,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
Phil,
You say you are located in Georgetown?
I am over south of Taylor and have been lurking on the list for a while
now.
I have a Piet project on the gear. Its moving pretty slow but it does
get worked on most every day. I just finished overhauling an A-65 and am
building on the motor mount/firewall mess right now.
Come on over if you get a chance. My daytime number is 512-933-3801.
Evenings 512-365-8918. We are on the San Antonio sectional as "Macho
Grande" airport. If you are driving, I will need to give you some
directions as we are off of the main roads.
At a minimum, plan on coming over on November 18th. Chapter 187 has a
fly-in at our place that day. We have been getting 30+ airplanes every
year and having a blast.
Bob Seibert
RV-6 N691RV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More on tailwheels |
>
>Doc Brusilow is correct.....you really don't want slack
>in your tailwheel steering connections, cables, springs.
I have 4 inch tailwheel on my Piet. It is less expensive than Scott or Maule
& much lighter.
I bought the assembly from Aviation Products Inc of Ojaj CA ( 805-6466042 )
& modified to fit the standard Piet coil spring configuration.
I fly from a concrete runway & still have the original tailwheel.
Mike B Piet N6878MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello Mike Cuy: What tail wheel spring are you using? and where did you
purchase it? I have s steerable only tailwheel I was planning to use,
but since I am using brakes I have moved my main wheels 3 inches
foreward ( per many suggestions in the BPANews) I'm going to use a
Matco steerable. with a heavier weight on the tail, I'm afraid I'll ware
out or tare fabric by always picking up the tail to move it in ground
handling. Thanks Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Stefan <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Date: Monday, August 14, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail spring
Stefan)
>
since I am using brakes I have moved my main wheels 3 inches
>foreward
Leon, I fail to see what brakes have to do with moving the wheels fwd. If
there is anything that the Piet is not, it is not nose heavy.
I have heard it suggested that the gear be moved fwd to compensate for an
aft CG.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More on tailwheels |
In a message dated 08/14/2000 10:32:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< I bought the assembly from Aviation Products Inc of Ojaj CA ( 805-6466042 )
& modified to fit the standard Piet coil spring configuration.
I fly from a concrete runway & still have the original tailwheel.
>>
I bought the same wheel when flying out of Santa Paula (near Ojai). Flew it
off of SP's hard surface runway for ten years with no problems at all and
bought another for the Piet. They sell both a straight swivel which I used
and a full swivel. I would recommend the straight swivel. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>
>Hello Mike Cuy: What tail wheel spring are you using? and where did you
>purchase it?
Leon- I purchased a two-leaf spring deal from Wag Aero. Make sure you
order the proper width of spring assy. though. They come in two widths
as I recall.....1 1/4" and 1 1/2". You want the size that is the same as the
shoe on your tailwheel assy. Today I would buy that spring assy. from
Wicks though or ACS. As an aside, Wag Aero is way over-priced on most
items. I didn't know any better 6 years ago.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Michael: Moving the wheels 3 in fwd. came in Bill Reweys landing gear
jig drawing in a past issue of BPANews.( and via the phone) He says a
stock Piet is light on the tail on the ground. Ok with no brakes, but
not very good with brakes. Easy to cause a nose over. I'm using the
Ford A, so I can imagine it happening. It has nothing to do with the
aircraft's CG. strictly a ground thing. My worry was that with a heavier
tailwheel weight on the ground, and a non swivel wheel, lifting the
tail to move it for ground handling would eventually cause fabric
damage. At the Piet Forum Bill also said he dumped his full swivel for a
steerable only tail wheel. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Tail wheel spring / lift handle |
Mike : Thanks for the info on the spring Joe: I thought
about the handle, but want to keep the weight off back there. I noticed
Rans and other light planes don't even use turnbuckles on tail brace
wires. That could save about a lb. and a half. Also bought at Osh. a
really light pneumatic wheel and tire. under a pound. It adds up in the
rear with that long moment arm, but more important, in total weight
savings. Thanks, Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheels 3" fwd. |
-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Stefan <leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels 3" fwd.
Stefan)
>
>Michael: Moving the wheels 3 in fwd. came in Bill Reweys landing gear
>jig drawing in a past issue of BPANews.( and via the phone) He says a
>stock Piet is light on the tail on the ground. Ok with no brakes, but
>not very good with brakes. Easy to cause a nose over. I'm using the
>Ford A, so I can imagine it happening.
Hey Leon, to each his own. I have not found any of the above to be true. I
have mechanical brakes & flew with an A engine for two years before I
changed to an 0-200. I never experienced a tendancy to nose over. In fact,
on take off power it takes fwd pressure to raise the tail. In addition, in
calculatibg the CG ( with the airplane straight & level) I have less that
one pound on the tail.
Again, it's a Piet, no two are the same.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage Question |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Looking at the fuselage plans (1933 plans from Don Pietenpol) on the
drawing labeled "Inside construction view of fuselage "
Question: What are the measurements at the aft end of the fuselage; 2",
6" and 7" referring to?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drag/anti-drag wires |
I used 1/8" 7X19 cable. This cable does strectch a little but I'm comfortable with
it.
Greg Cardinal
>>> 08/11 6:45 AM >>>
I used 11 ga. mild steel wire for my drag wires, bending it around cable
shackles at the attach points and splicing an eye with nicopress sleeves,
with turnbuckles at the mid-span fittings. But after talking to a guy who
built several Piets who said I should replace them, I'm less sure about
leaving them in the airplane. Plans call for 14 ga. hard wire. I hadn't been
able to find any of that, so I though thicker mild steel wire would do. Now
I'm not as confident in that decision.
I have some 1/8" stainless control cable and enough thimbles and nicopress
sleeves to redo all the drag wires. What's the opinion of this knowledgeable
group?
Matt Paxton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Alum head vendor |
Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks!
Richard "Just flew on a 737, really wished it were a Piet" DeCosta
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
In a message dated 8/16/00 12:20:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks! >>
Richard,
A few months ago, I recieved my aluminum head, from Dan Price, and I am
satisified with the quality of the head (so far...I haven't ran the engine
yet). However, there was a few minor scratches on it, and a few little
pieces of shavings in the coolant jacket that I had to shake out. Doug
Bryant purchased his 'Dan Price Head' about 4 years ago, and has had no
problems with it. I just finished assembling the engine, and I'm ready to
install it on the airframe, except for drilling out the four oil pan mounting
holes. Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint it,
and expect the paint to stick? I have some epoxy paint, for aluminum, then
top coat it with the polyurathane red color. I would really like to paint
the entire engine red, the same as the fuselage.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
rcaprd(at)aol.com
Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9. Benton
is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food available,
and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!). Any
questions, please e-mail me directly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
Is the Benton fly-in going to be Saturday and Sunday??
Greg
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
> rcaprd(at)aol.com
>
> Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9.
Benton
> is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food
available,
> and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!).
Any
> questions, please e-mail me directly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Allen" <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton |
Chuck:
I have some Pietenpol accumulation of stuff (wife calls it junk) If I load
it and bring it September 9, is selling or trading allowed?
>From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum head vendor
>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:55:30 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 8/16/00 12:20:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
>aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
><< Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
> heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks! >>
>
>Richard,
>A few months ago, I recieved my aluminum head, from Dan Price, and I am
>satisified with the quality of the head (so far...I haven't ran the engine
>yet). However, there was a few minor scratches on it, and a few little
>pieces of shavings in the coolant jacket that I had to shake out. Doug
>Bryant purchased his 'Dan Price Head' about 4 years ago, and has had no
>problems with it. I just finished assembling the engine, and I'm ready to
>install it on the airframe, except for drilling out the four oil pan
>mounting
>holes. Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint it,
>and expect the paint to stick? I have some epoxy paint, for aluminum,
>then
>top coat it with the polyurathane red color. I would really like to paint
>the entire engine red, the same as the fuselage.
>
>Chuck Gantzer
>Wichita KS
>rcaprd(at)aol.com
>
>Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9. Benton
>is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food
>available,
>and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!).
>Any
>questions, please e-mail me directly.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton |
Hi, Walter.
Jay Travis here; just bought a Piet project on eBay and looking forward to
finishing it. What kind of "stuff" do you have? (Assuming there isn't a
problem discussing such matters on the list- if there is, my apologies, and you
can mail me off the list at dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com instead.)
Thanks,
Jay Travis
Walter Allen wrote:
>
> Chuck:
>
> I have some Pietenpol accumulation of stuff (wife calls it junk) If I load
> it and bring it September 9, is selling or trading allowed?
>
> >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum head vendor
> >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:55:30 EDT
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 8/16/00 12:20:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
> >
> ><< Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
> > heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks! >>
> >
> >Richard,
> >A few months ago, I recieved my aluminum head, from Dan Price, and I am
> >satisified with the quality of the head (so far...I haven't ran the engine
> >yet). However, there was a few minor scratches on it, and a few little
> >pieces of shavings in the coolant jacket that I had to shake out. Doug
> >Bryant purchased his 'Dan Price Head' about 4 years ago, and has had no
> >problems with it. I just finished assembling the engine, and I'm ready to
> >install it on the airframe, except for drilling out the four oil pan
> >mounting
> >holes. Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint it,
> >and expect the paint to stick? I have some epoxy paint, for aluminum,
> >then
> >top coat it with the polyurathane red color. I would really like to paint
> >the entire engine red, the same as the fuselage.
> >
> >Chuck Gantzer
> >Wichita KS
> >rcaprd(at)aol.com
> >
> >Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9. Benton
> >is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food
> >available,
> >and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!).
> >Any
> >questions, please e-mail me directly.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Jay Travis here; just bought a Piet project on eBay
Jay- Just curious, do you know if you've purchased a Piet
or a GN-1. Hopefully whichever you have coming will come
with the plans to help you finish. Best wishes,
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet or GN-1 ? |
Hi, Mike.
I researched enough to know to ask that very question before I bought it, and it
is
indeed a genuine Piet, not a GN-1 (no offense to the GN-1 guys on the list) It
does
a couple of variances- notably the landing gear "A" frames and wheels/tires/brakes
that come with it are from a Cub, and he hasn't set the firewall in yet, although
he
was planning on using a Suburu engine instead of the Ford. Personally, I haven't
made up my mind yet which way to finish it out. I looked at the Aerial biplane
set-up, and while I like the second wing concept, from what I've heard that
particular design wasn't very well thought out, appearantly. But I'd like to see
if
a second one has been built that HAS been successful- perhaps the prototype had
some
other problems in that individual airframe that got blamed on the second wing
instead. I graduated from Middle Tennessee State University's Aerospace
Administration program in 1994, and the friends I have on staff there have all
been
interested in offering their guidence, help, etc. in getting this project completed,
so between them, the local EAA chapter, and you guys here on the list, I figure
I've
got some pretty good guidence to help me get through the rest of what is my first
homebuilt project. (I used to have a Cessna 150 and a Piper Cherokee 140, but
I just
flew them- never worked on them) Any feedback/comments/opinions for the new guy?
Jay
Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> >Jay Travis here; just bought a Piet project on eBay
>
> Jay- Just curious, do you know if you've purchased a Piet
> or a GN-1. Hopefully whichever you have coming will come
> with the plans to help you finish. Best wishes,
>
> Mike C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
02:33:52 PM
Question: What does a Pietenpol NOT need more of?
Answer: Drag!
Question: What does a Bipe Pietenpol have more of?
Yeah, I know, it's sort of a smart-ass remark, but I mean it in a
silly/serious way.
It just so happens that I'm working in Portland, OR for a while and
the guy who built the Bipe-Piet is nearby. I understand that he and
his father built a number of regular single wing Piets also. I'd like
to track him down and visit while I'm here. If I turn up any
interesting facts, I'll be sure to pass them along.
Also, there was an article in the EAA magazine about this plane with
pics and description of flight charteristics ("power off, glides like
a brick" or something similar). You can search the EAA web site and
order a reprint. I'm in Portland and the article is in Columbia, SC,
or I'd pass exact reference along.
Good luck and welcome!
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
Proud owner of two old Corvairs, one of which will donate an engine
for my Piet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
Hi Mike--Thought I would pass along some information for you and any other
local/temporary citizens. This weekend is the Evergreen Airport Antique Fly
In. Supposed to be between 200 and 500 planes there, static displays, and
the usual food etc. The airport is on the eastern end of Mill Plain
Road--easy enough to find from either I-205 (closer access from freeway) or
I-5.
Can't miss it. Just get on Mill Plain and head east. It is on the North
side of the road. Anyone interested in more details can e mail me direct at
patcoolnet(at)aol.com. My brother has a hanger there for his non Piet plane and
my Dad is working on the wing for his Piet--has the fusalage and tail
complete--shooting at having it at the Fly in in 2001--thanks, Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
Sorry people. Left out one important detail. Evergreen Air Port is in
Vancouver, WA. SW Washington, the columbia river is our border with Oregon
State. (Portland is just across the river.) Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
Pat
Any chance you Dads plane will be at the show. I'd love to see his work.
I've only seen one Piet and it was complete
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: Patcoolnet(at)aol.com [mailto:Patcoolnet(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bipe Pietenpol
Hi Mike--Thought I would pass along some information for you and any other
local/temporary citizens. This weekend is the Evergreen Airport Antique Fly
In. Supposed to be between 200 and 500 planes there, static displays, and
the usual food etc. The airport is on the eastern end of Mill Plain
Road--easy enough to find from either I-205 (closer access from freeway) or
I-5.
Can't miss it. Just get on Mill Plain and head east. It is on the North
side of the road. Anyone interested in more details can e mail me direct at
patcoolnet(at)aol.com. My brother has a hanger there for his non Piet plane
and
my Dad is working on the wing for his Piet--has the fusalage and tail
complete--shooting at having it at the Fly in in 2001--thanks, Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Allen" <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton |
Hi Jay:
I will have to dig some of my junk is gn-1 here is what I can think of off
the top of my head.
1. Mounts that fit on side of fuselage and hold the center section
cabanes-GN-1
2. Landing gear belly mount (1) not both GN-1
3. 1/4 x1/2 Spruce capstrip (wing rib material from wicks)
4. 2 peices new 1/16" plywood 22"x48"
5. 5" x 1" blank Spar material 16' long
6. 6" x 1" blank Spar material 16' long
Thats all I can think of at the moment until I did through the garage.
Thanks
Walter
>From: Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton
>Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:45:25 -0500
>
>
>Hi, Walter.
>Jay Travis here; just bought a Piet project on eBay and looking forward to
>finishing it. What kind of "stuff" do you have? (Assuming there isn't a
>problem discussing such matters on the list- if there is, my apologies, and
>you
>can mail me off the list at dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com instead.)
>Thanks,
>Jay Travis
>
>Walter Allen wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Chuck:
> >
> > I have some Pietenpol accumulation of stuff (wife calls it junk) If I
>load
> > it and bring it September 9, is selling or trading allowed?
> >
> > >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum head vendor
> > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:55:30 EDT
> > >
> > >
> > >In a message dated 8/16/00 12:20:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > >aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
> > >
> > ><< Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
> > > heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks! >>
> > >
> > >Richard,
> > >A few months ago, I recieved my aluminum head, from Dan Price, and I am
> > >satisified with the quality of the head (so far...I haven't ran the
>engine
> > >yet). However, there was a few minor scratches on it, and a few little
> > >pieces of shavings in the coolant jacket that I had to shake out. Doug
> > >Bryant purchased his 'Dan Price Head' about 4 years ago, and has had no
> > >problems with it. I just finished assembling the engine, and I'm ready
>to
> > >install it on the airframe, except for drilling out the four oil pan
> > >mounting
> > >holes. Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint
>it,
> > >and expect the paint to stick? I have some epoxy paint, for aluminum,
> > >then
> > >top coat it with the polyurathane red color. I would really like to
>paint
> > >the entire engine red, the same as the fuselage.
> > >
> > >Chuck Gantzer
> > >Wichita KS
> > >rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > >
> > >Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9.
>Benton
> > >is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food
> > >available,
> > >and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!).
> > >Any
> > >questions, please e-mail me directly.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
Sorry, no. But he loves to have visitors. He will likely be at the Fly In
if you go--noon to 5 Fri, 8-5 Sat, 8--12 Sun.--5.00 admission. Just ask for
Mike (my brother) or Bud Cooley. Dad is building the parts in his shop here
(about 15 minutes from the air port)--when he is ready to assemble and cover
will have to move to the hanger due to size of the wing. If you don't go or
miss him, the phone here is 360-892-3167. Call and tell him you want to see
his plane and you two can decide when it will work for both of you. He's
retired, but swears he needs a job to get some time off. Call anytime
between 8am and 9pm--if he's not around or out in the shop, we will take a
number and he can return your call. Thanks, Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bipe Pietenpol |
Thanks, I'll look forward to one or the other. I may fly to the fly in.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: Patcoolnet(at)aol.com [mailto:Patcoolnet(at)aol.com]
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bipe Pietenpol
Sorry, no. But he loves to have visitors. He will likely be at the Fly In
if you go--noon to 5 Fri, 8-5 Sat, 8--12 Sun.--5.00 admission. Just ask for
Mike (my brother) or Bud Cooley. Dad is building the parts in his shop here
(about 15 minutes from the air port)--when he is ready to assemble and cover
will have to move to the hanger due to size of the wing. If you don't go or
miss him, the phone here is 360-892-3167. Call and tell him you want to see
his plane and you two can decide when it will work for both of you. He's
retired, but swears he needs a job to get some time off. Call anytime
between 8am and 9pm--if he's not around or out in the shop, we will take a
number and he can return your call. Thanks, Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum head vendor
Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint it,
> and expect the paint to stick?
Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita KS
Yes chuck if you wash it well with a product such as "aladyne"or even
acetone then you could expect the paint to stick.
But are you sure you want to? The head would be better at rejecting heat in
its natural state.
The contrast in colour between the red and aluminum wouldn't look bad at
all.
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
In a message dated 8/17/00 7:53:12 AM Central Daylight Time, gyachts(at)kans.com
writes:
<< Is the Benton fly-in going to be Saturday and Sunday??
Greg >>
We were planing on just saturday, but Hey...who knows. I just hope the
weather is good, and some people show up !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton |
In a message dated 8/17/00 9:17:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
overalles(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Chuck:
I have some Pietenpol accumulation of stuff (wife calls it junk) If I load
it and bring it September 9, is selling or trading allowed? >>
Sure thing !! Bring a canope too, or even a table. There is lots of room.
Bring some stuff that ya have done on your project, and have a show & tell.
That's what it's all about. When someone can see a finished part, and talk
with the person who built it, it sure makes it alot easier to for them to
build it. Bring the wife...when she sees what everyone else is working on,
maybe she'll start calling it 'stuff'.
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
In a message dated 8/17/00 7:25:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
jmcnarry(at)techplus.com writes:
<< The head would be better at rejecting heat in
its natural state.
The contrast in colour between the red and aluminum wouldn't look bad at
all.
John Mc >>
Yes, the paint would insulate some of the heat. Hummmm....How 'bout a
Polished Aluminum head !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
--- Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/17/00 7:25:03 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> jmcnarry(at)techplus.com writes:
>
> << The head would be better at rejecting heat in
> its natural state.
> The contrast in colour between the red and aluminum
> wouldn't look bad at
> all.
> John Mc >>
>
> Yes, the paint would insulate some of the heat.
> Hummmm....How 'bout a
> Polished Aluminum head !!
> Chuck
>
GREAT!!!
I can imagine your engine:
Red with polished head, black accesories and cables...
really neat.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
>
> << Is the Benton fly-in going to be Saturday and Sunday??
>
> Greg >>
>
> We were planing on just saturday, but Hey...who knows. I just hope the
> weather is good, and some people show up !!
>
> Chuck
What, you didn't like the weather last year?? I was going to bring a A
engine that is inspected, torn down and ready for rebuild but it sounds like
I'll have to wait for next year.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Bendix mag timing |
I have a Piet with a Continental C-85 with Bendix S4LN-21 mags. One
stopped working so I decided to pull it out. I discovered that the coil
had kind of disintegrated so I ordered a new one from Aircraft Spruce.
Problem is, I don't know how to position the distributer gear so the white
mark you see through the portal at the top is in the correct place. I see
a little L and R printed on the face of the gear, but am not sure what they
are meant to be aligned with. The is a little
mark but I am not sure
if this is the correct indicator. Anyway, could omeone tell me how to set
the internal mag timing. Also, the replacement coil I received has two
leads (a long one on one end and a short one on the other) whereas the one
I removed had only one lead. Do I use one and tape over the other? Also,
the end of one of the metal contacts that sticks out from the end of the
coil has a slight bevel, while the other is cut square. I can't see that
it makes a difference > which side the bevel is on. By the way, both of my
mags have impulse couplings. Thanks for any help. If someone has a page
from a Bendix manual and a fax machine my number is 603-352-1456. Thanks,
Joe Kohler, Alstead, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
In a message dated 8/18/00 11:33:20 AM Central Daylight Time,
gyachts(at)kans.com writes:
<< What, you didn't like the weather last year?? I was going to bring a A
engine that is inspected, torn down and ready for rebuild but it sounds like
I'll have to wait for next year.
Greg >>
Hey Greg !! Bring everything ya got !! Don't even think about waiting till
next year!! What I meant was that it is going to be saturday, and maybe even
spill over into Sunday, too. Especially if it looks like good flying weather.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lonnie Gillespie" <lonelg(at)ionet.net> |
REMOVE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell) |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton |
Blank spars for a GN1 just happens I need just what you have how much and can
you ship them to va. david kowell
Walter Allen wrote:
>
> Hi Jay:
>
> I will have to dig some of my junk is gn-1 here is what I can think of off
> the top of my head.
> 1. Mounts that fit on side of fuselage and hold the center section
> cabanes-GN-1
> 2. Landing gear belly mount (1) not both GN-1
> 3. 1/4 x1/2 Spruce capstrip (wing rib material from wicks)
> 4. 2 peices new 1/16" plywood 22"x48"
> 5. 5" x 1" blank Spar material 16' long
> 6. 6" x 1" blank Spar material 16' long
>
> Thats all I can think of at the moment until I did through the garage.
>
> Thanks
> Walter
>
> >From: Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fly In at Benton
> >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:45:25 -0500
> >
> >
> >Hi, Walter.
> >Jay Travis here; just bought a Piet project on eBay and looking forward to
> >finishing it. What kind of "stuff" do you have? (Assuming there isn't a
> >problem discussing such matters on the list- if there is, my apologies, and
> >you
> >can mail me off the list at dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com instead.)
> >Thanks,
> >Jay Travis
> >
> >Walter Allen wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Chuck:
> > >
> > > I have some Pietenpol accumulation of stuff (wife calls it junk) If I
> >load
> > > it and bring it September 9, is selling or trading allowed?
> > >
> > > >From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum head vendor
> > > >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:55:30 EDT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In a message dated 8/16/00 12:20:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > >aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
> > > >
> > > ><< Can someone vouch for Dan Price of westerville, OH and the aluminum
> > > > heads he produces, before I mail him a $300 check? Thanks! >>
> > > >
> > > >Richard,
> > > >A few months ago, I recieved my aluminum head, from Dan Price, and I am
> > > >satisified with the quality of the head (so far...I haven't ran the
> >engine
> > > >yet). However, there was a few minor scratches on it, and a few little
> > > >pieces of shavings in the coolant jacket that I had to shake out. Doug
> > > >Bryant purchased his 'Dan Price Head' about 4 years ago, and has had no
> > > >problems with it. I just finished assembling the engine, and I'm ready
> >to
> > > >install it on the airframe, except for drilling out the four oil pan
> > > >mounting
> > > >holes. Here is my question, to the group, about the head; Can I paint
> >it,
> > > >and expect the paint to stick? I have some epoxy paint, for aluminum,
> > > >then
> > > >top coat it with the polyurathane red color. I would really like to
> >paint
> > > >the entire engine red, the same as the fuselage.
> > > >
> > > >Chuck Gantzer
> > > >Wichita KS
> > > >rcaprd(at)aol.com
> > > >
> > > >Reminder: Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark on Saturday Sept. 9.
> >Benton
> > > >is about 10 miles NE of Wichita KS. This year, there will be food
> > > >available,
> > > >and limited camping available (we have a porta-jon for the weekend !!).
> > > >Any
> > > >questions, please e-mail me directly.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
has anybody had a problem getting a nut on the last screw of the most outside
elevator hinge, the one that is just under the diagonal brace? if so i would
appreciate any suggestions on the best way to handle it.
thanks,
Robert Bush
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum head vendor |
Actually the best color the block is Black. It is the color that helps to
dissipate heat the most. Any other color will insulate more than black
depending on it's wavelength. Silver/Aluminum and white paint would be the
worst. Just look at any anodized electronic heat sink, they are for the most
part flat black, not shiny.
Regards,
Domenico Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
Robert,
Here's the trick, hope you haven't glued the plywood gussets
over the triangular block. This block needs to be notched so
that the washer and nut have a flat spot to sit on. Then the
outer bolt that goes thru will be much longer than the other
bolt on the hinge.
The real trick comes when the gusset are on and you want to
assemble the hinge to the stabalizer and the elevator, then
things end up tight and skinny fingers are a big plus. Also,
a 1/4" ratchet with extension and u-joint are nice too.
If the gussets are already in place, consider using a sharp
chisel to remove one gusset and then notching the block
underneath. Do all this off the plane of course, and gently.
Good luck,
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
Hey Rodger thanks for the input that's exactly the problem I have the gussets
all in place and glued. Just another one of those times that it pays to
really study and think ahead when looking at the plans. I thought someone
may have done this same thing and have a simple solution to the problem. To
any one else that may be wondering what I am talking about I may not have
been clear the problem is on the horizontal stabilizer where the diagonal
brace goes into the main beam that the hinges attach to, it gets real tight
in there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elavator hinges |
Robert, Just use your judgement. I ran into the same problem. Just whacked
to allow clearance to get a wrench in there and hold the nuts on the back of
the stabilizer trailing edge.
The actual glued surface area of the joint that was removed was very small.
Lets don't forget that "this aint rocket science". I've done the same thing
over and over. Honest to goodness I have analyzed things to death
sometimes. TRUST yourself. You will do just fine.
Good luck,
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: <RBush96589(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elavator hinges
>
> Hey Rodger thanks for the input that's exactly the problem I have the
gussets
> all in place and glued. Just another one of those times that it pays to
> really study and think ahead when looking at the plans. I thought someone
> may have done this same thing and have a simple solution to the problem.
To
> any one else that may be wondering what I am talking about I may not have
> been clear the problem is on the horizontal stabilizer where the diagonal
> brace goes into the main beam that the hinges attach to, it gets real
tight
> in there.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bendix mag timing |
since your mag is a left hand (s4Ln) rotation, the notched or marked small
gear tooth mates with the notch on the big gear where the L arrow points.
It is kinda late and I just gor in. I'll answer the rest tomorrow, if I
can. (I think so, if not off the top of my head, I do have all of the
manuals)
----------
> From: Joseph Kohler <kohler(at)Dellnet.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bendix mag timing
> Date: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:16 PM
>
>
> I have a Piet with a Continental C-85 with Bendix S4LN-21 mags. One
> stopped working so I decided to pull it out. I discovered that the coil
> had kind of disintegrated so I ordered a new one from Aircraft Spruce.
> Problem is, I don't know how to position the distributer gear so the
white
> mark you see through the portal at the top is in the correct place. I
see
> a little L and R printed on the face of the gear, but am not sure what
they
> are meant to be aligned with. The is a little
mark but I am not
sure
> if this is the correct indicator. Anyway, could omeone tell me how to
set
> the internal mag timing. Also, the replacement coil I received has two
> leads (a long one on one end and a short one on the other) whereas the
one
> I removed had only one lead. Do I use one and tape over the other?
Also,
> the end of one of the metal contacts that sticks out from the end of the
> coil has a slight bevel, while the other is cut square. I can't see
that
> it makes a difference > which side the bevel is on. By the way, both of
my
> mags have impulse couplings. Thanks for any help. If someone has a
page
> from a Bendix manual and a fax machine my number is 603-352-1456.
Thanks,
> Joe Kohler, Alstead, NH
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elavator hinges |
I hear no mention of nut-plates for this application. I used Vi Kaplers
aluminum hinges recessed the thickness of the base and nut plates on the
inside. an easy application and no worries of nuts loosening.
regards
JoeC
Conoly wrote:
>
> Robert, Just use your judgement. I ran into the same problem. Just whacked
> , with a jig saw, both gussetts off a bit to eliminate enough of the gussett
> to allow clearance to get a wrench in there and hold the nuts on the back of
> the stabilizer trailing edge.
>
> The actual glued surface area of the joint that was removed was very small.
> Lets don't forget that "this aint rocket science". I've done the same thing
> over and over. Honest to goodness I have analyzed things to death
> sometimes. TRUST yourself. You will do just fine.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Bert
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Jury Struts Location |
Does anyone know of the best location for the Piet jury struts and WHY you
would chose that spot. Thanks I need some help on this one to keep going.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jury Struts Location |
They should be as close as possible to the mid-point of the lift struts.
Why? Putting the jury strut at mid-point increases the buckling resistance most
efficiently.
Greg
>>> 08/21 11:32 AM >>>
Does anyone know of the best location for the Piet jury struts and WHY you
would chose that spot. Thanks I need some help on this one to keep going.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Just finished my dinner after a day in the shop routing the right wing spars.
Wish I had done one from each side. That would be finis. I think it would be
less time consuming if the pilot were to just simply go on a crash weight
loss program. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the effort. I'm
plum tuckered out.
A very tired Piet builder in La especially in this 102 temp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
When I spoke last to Jean-Peter of Western Aircraft Supply, ordering
the rest of the wood for my Piet, he seemed to think there was no need
to rout them at all.
Is weight tho only reason to do it? Isnt it a total of like 8lbs saved?
I could lose 8lbs swimming & biking... :)
Richard
--- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Just finished my dinner after a day in the shop routing the right
> wing spars.
> Wish I had done one from each side. That would be finis. I think it
> would be
> less time consuming if the pilot were to just simply go on a crash
> weight
> loss program. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the
> effort. I'm
> plum tuckered out.
> A very tired Piet builder in La especially in this 102 temp.
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Routing Spars
. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the effort. I'm
>plum tuckered out.
No need to rout, just use 3/4 in spars. I did.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
Hi.
I'm new to the list and I'll be the first to admit I'm not a Pietenpol expert
by any means, but it seems there might be better places to save eight pounds
than by routing out the wing spars. Has anyone tested this to see what it's
cumulative effect is on structural integrity?
Jay
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> When I spoke last to Jean-Peter of Western Aircraft Supply, ordering
> the rest of the wood for my Piet, he seemed to think there was no need
> to rout them at all.
>
> Is weight tho only reason to do it? Isnt it a total of like 8lbs saved?
> I could lose 8lbs swimming & biking... :)
>
> Richard
>
> --- Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Just finished my dinner after a day in the shop routing the right
> > wing spars.
> > Wish I had done one from each side. That would be finis. I think it
> > would be
> > less time consuming if the pilot were to just simply go on a crash
> > weight
> > loss program. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the
> > effort. I'm
> > plum tuckered out.
> > A very tired Piet builder in La especially in this 102 temp.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com <Isablcorky(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Routing Spars
. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the effort. I'm
>plum tuckered out.
No need to rout, just use 3/4 in spars. I did.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jury Struts Location |
In a message dated 8/21/00 12:35:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< Does anyone know of the best location for the Piet jury struts and WHY you
would chose that spot. >>
Jury struts serve two, possibly three purposes. The first is to check
negative G-load on the lift struts, in other words, keep them straight under
compression loads, by placing them close to the midway point of the lift
strut. The second purpose is to check harmonic vibration. To serve this
purpose, the jury struts must not be placed at the exact midway point. There
are some famous guitar players that use harmonics to make strange, and
unusual sounds, by placing their fingers ever so lightly on the string, at
the exact midway point of the string, but not stretching the string all the
way down to the fret. By doing this, the strings vibration, above and below
the finger location, is exactly the same. It makes for a sustained, high
pitch vibration. The same thing will happen with the lift struts, and cause
metal fatigue (but with no audible sound). Harmonics is the reason that the
control horn should never be located at the exact midway point of a control
surface. The third purpose is it is a really good location for a vane type
airspeed indicator.
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
In a message dated 8/21/00 8:32:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:
<< I think it would be
less time consuming if the pilot were to just simply go on a crash weight
loss program. I'm doubting if this routing business is worth the effort. I'm
plum tuckered out.
A very tired Piet builder in La especially in this 102 temp. >>
A crash weight loss program is a healthy way to imporve the flying
charateristics of your plane !! I wish I could loose the weight, and just
keep it off. On the other hand, every effort you make to keep the weight
down during the construction process, is well worth it. It will pay
dividends every time you fly. For me, the construction process is a hobby,
and one of the goals is to keep the weight to a minimum, while maintaining
structural integrity. I don't measure weight in pounds, or ounces...I
measure it in grams !!
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Jury Struts and Spar Routings |
Thanks for all the responses to the two questions I asked.
I will continue to finish routing my spars.
On the jury struts, I made a decision this afternoon to place the spare
fitting for the jury at 49.5 inches from the butt of the spare. This I
calculated in the following manner.
Fundamental vibration of the wing section is 13 ft 2 1/2 in or 158.5
in.Divide by 2 and get the 1st harmonic, 79.25 in where lift strut fittings
are placed. Further divide by 2 and get 2nd harmonic, 39.625 further divide
by 2 for the 3d harmonic, 19.8125, further dividing by 2 to get the 4th
harmonic 9.90 in.
I added the 2d and 4th harmonics for a location of 49.5 inches. This is a
node point where the natural vibration of the designated length of wood
establishes its partials.
I'm probably waaaaaay outside the ballpark on this theory but I think It will
help minimize vibrations
Corky in HOT La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
>
>No need to rout, just use 3/4 in spars. I did.
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
Yes to this idea AND another way is to go w/ 1/2 inch
web member w/ four strips of 1/4" thick spruce glued to
the edges to make it an I-beam configuration. That's what's
flying in my plane.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Jury Struts and Spar Routings |
And to think I just counted out to the fifth or sixth rib and fit them
there.
I'll be listening for the inaudible vibrations next time I fly... :)
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury Struts and Spar Routings
Thanks for all the responses to the two questions I asked.
I will continue to finish routing my spars.
On the jury struts, I made a decision this afternoon to place the spare
fitting for the jury at 49.5 inches from the butt of the spare. This I
calculated in the following manner.
Fundamental vibration of the wing section is 13 ft 2 1/2 in or 158.5
in.Divide by 2 and get the 1st harmonic, 79.25 in where lift strut fittings
are placed. Further divide by 2 and get 2nd harmonic, 39.625 further divide
by 2 for the 3d harmonic, 19.8125, further dividing by 2 to get the 4th
harmonic 9.90 in.
I added the 2d and 4th harmonics for a location of 49.5 inches. This is a
node point where the natural vibration of the designated length of wood
establishes its partials.
I'm probably waaaaaay outside the ballpark on this theory but I think It
will
help minimize vibrations
Corky in HOT La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Steve E.....I did the same in placing the jury struts
but went out 1/2 way which made it about 3 1/2 ribs
out from the root rib. Do you find that at certain power
settings (usually slow flight) you can see the struts
vibrate....and with the slightest adjustment in power,
this stops.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jury Struts and Spar Routings |
Was just trying to find some logical point to locate them. No big deal
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Jury Struts and Spar Routings |
All just in fun mind you....
Keep building and fly'n
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury Struts and Spar Routings
Was just trying to find some logical point to locate them. No big deal
CMC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
I'm having a problem with my finishing tapes pulling down at the 90 degree
bend of the elevator and aileron trailing edges. I am using 3" bias-cut
ceconite lite and am pulling with a good bit of force. Have also tried the
iron at 250 (while stretching ) but still get folds that won't flatten out.
I'm managing o.k. on the larger radius corners but the 90's have me whipped
!! Any suggestions or magic fixes ?? Would pre-soaking help? Thanx, Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Hello Mike C. On Aug 7 you sent a post on Helmsman stating "let it cure
for 2 months and fabric glue (mek in Poly fiber) won't attack it" In
your next post you said to spray a thin coat of DuPont 222 sanding
sealer to keep the glue from attacking the varnish. Do I understand
that the Helmsman alone won't stand up to the fabric cement even after
curring fir 2months? Thanks. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Tapes |
I would go ahead and notch them. It really can be done where it looks
great if you take your time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Tapes |
Hey Don
You wouldn't happen to be the Don Hicks who works in Little Rock for PHI
would you.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 08/21/00 |
For the members of this list that responded to me and the questions I had
about the GN Aircamper, WT & Bal. I'm pleased to tell you that I flew the
plane this morning, with the CG at 20 inches and it went just fine. The jury
is still out of course on the complete envelope but, so far so good.
thanks for the input....more later
Joe Gauthier
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 8/22/00 11:21:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Do you find that at certain power
settings (usually slow flight) you can see the struts
vibrate....and with the slightest adjustment in power,
this stops.
Mike C. >>
Ah yes...Harmonics at work !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 08/21/00 |
Congradulations Joe!
Looking forward to the numbers, yours, and the ones on the runway under
the nose of our own aircrafts' first flight.
Many Happy Landings,
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: <N22607(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 08/21/00
>
> For the members of this list that responded to me and the questions I had
> about the GN Aircamper, WT & Bal. I'm pleased to tell you that I flew the
> plane this morning, with the CG at 20 inches and it went just fine. The
jury
> is still out of course on the complete envelope but, so far so good.
>
> thanks for the input....more later
>
> Joe Gauthier
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Flew once in a Stearman, 220 Continental power. It was placarded against
running for extended times at 1700 rpm. The explanation was that the engine
power impulses and the prop blade length at 1700 rpm set up a harmonic
vibration that not only shook the prop but could be felt in the whole
airframe. Brings a whole new bunch of answers and questions to the the
friendly greeting "What's Shakin' "
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury Struts
>
> In a message dated 8/22/00 11:21:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
>
> << Do you find that at certain power
> settings (usually slow flight) you can see the struts
> vibrate....and with the slightest adjustment in power,
> this stops.
>
> Mike C. >>
>
> Ah yes...Harmonics at work !!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Michael,
Would it be possible to get drawings of your smoke system? I'd like to
incorporate it in my plane. I can send a SASE, or whatever.
Thanx, in advance,
Don Cooley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
That's close . . . the 220 placard is against a harmonic, but you cannot
feel it (i.e. the placard) There are several other airplanes with similar
restrictions for the same reason, the Grumman Tiger for example.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Hello Mike C. On Aug 7 you sent a post on Helmsman stating "let it cure
>for 2 months and fabric glue (mek in Poly fiber) won't attack it" In
>your next post you said to spray a thin coat of DuPont 222 sanding
>sealer to keep the glue from attacking the varnish. Do I understand
>that the Helmsman alone won't stand up to the fabric cement even after
>curring fir 2months? Thanks. Leon S.
>
Leon ! Good question. I didn't try the MEK test on cured varnish alone
but the cured varnish with the Dupont 222S sanding sealer already applied.
I guess you'd have to do the test on some scrap wood to find out if you even
need the sealer. I just used it because the wiser, older, (the ones I
trust very much)
guys at the airport use the sealer on wood parts before putting fabric
over them. It is really easy to apply too. Has the consistency of
water. I just
set the wings up on sawhorses over a stone driveway, poured the sealer into
a small poly spayer and sprayed the wing down, flipped it, sprayed the
other side,
and was done. You want to just get it wet, not soak it down heavily
because they
told me that it could soften the varnish itself if left too long wet. The
stuff dries
in about 5 minutes. Hope this helps.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
Mike,
Did you varnish your ribs before assembling the wing?
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
>
>Michael,
> Would it be possible to get drawings of your smoke system? I'd like to
>incorporate it in my plane. I can send a SASE, or whatever.
> Thanx, in advance,
> Don Cooley
>Hello Don,
>I've never sketched the system out but can describe it here and
I'd bet you'd have no trouble in duplicating it. I welded a stainless
steel 1/4" female Swagelok fitting onto my rear cyl. exhaust stack
about 1" down from the flange. (where the gases are good and hot.)
THEN drilled two number 60 drill holes thru the wall of the exhaust
stack inside the fitting opening. If you have mild steel exhaust stacks
I'd start with one #60 hole and drill a second if you don't get enough
smoke oil thru it. I am running with stainless stacks so I don't anticipate
the holes enlarging in time, but not sure if the mild stacks would oxidize
or enlarge with use. Anyway, the important thing is that you weld some
kind of fitting to the stack that you can connect some 1/4" tubing to.
You might be able to use copper tube but I used 1/4" stainless coming off
of that fitting for the first 8" or so to get away from the heat. Next I
coupled
that tube to an aluminum tube I had mounted and running thru the firewall.
This length of rubber hose dampens the vibrations and hopefully will give
your installation long life without fatigue cracks. Inside the firewall I
coupled
the 1/4" alum. tubing to 1/4" semi-rigid poly tubing we use for pito-static
lines
and such. (again using about a 3" long rubber hose and hose clamps to join the
two types of tubing. Wicks and your local hardware store carries this
tubing. You don't
want to use Tygon tubing.....a bit too soft for the pressures I would think.and
you can't use Adell clamps without squeezing the inside diameter.
The poly tubing was run along the bottom of the right longeron (the top
longeron)
as I had my fitting welded into the right side of the engine (as seen from
the cockpit.)
The tubing was run right along with my tachometer cable, carb heat
control, and
fuel shut-off cable with Adell clamps and wood-screwed into the longeron.
A left about three feet of loose poly tubing coming out from under the
instrument
panel in the rear seat. Make a trip to Wal Mart or a local garden center or
nursery and find yourself a bug spayer bottle that you pump up to pressurize.
A gallon is too big....so try something under that. I think mine is about two
quarts or so which fits good on the seat next to me by the hip.
I removed the standard wand attachment they provide on the sprayer and again
used a rubber hose connection to couple the bug sprayer outlet to the 1/4"
poly tubing. In this case I needed to step-down the diameters once to make
the whole thing compatible. I also used tye-wraps and a tye wrap tightening
tool to instead of hose clamps as they seem to work just great in keeping the
hoses secure and leak-proof. Hose clamps will work fine too but I didn't want
them scratching up the inside of the cockpit wood.
There is no need to inject the smoke oil into multiple exhaust
stacks. This one
fitting is all I need. I did weld a second fitting in the other exhaust
stack but never
drilled it out or connected it up. It was there if I needed it but I haven't.
When choosing a poly sprayer try to check out how quickly the pressure builds
up. I've tried several brands and they are not all the same. Some are
really lame
in building up pressure and you don't want that. Wal Mart has this opaque
and green
Better Homes and Garden sprayer that I like the best. Builds up pressure well
and is the right size. (bet they never saw the product being used in this
market, eh ?)
Besides discarding the wand I also cut off the plastic handle that is part
of the
screw-on top/pump mechanism. It just gets in the way of the bottle sitting
well
next to you when flying.
Many guys have tried everything from diesel and transmission oil to Wesson and
Canola oil but you simply can't beat the stuff the guys use in
airshows. The smoke
oil they use (and the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds too.) is called Texaco
Canopus
#13. It is a mineral oil of sorts they use for cement mold release, for
oiling food industry
machinery, and in dentist drills. Anyway- the stuff is not super easy to
get but if you
want it you need to make some phone calls to find out who carries it near you.
To find a
retailer/source near you call 800-782-7852. You
want Canopus 13 oil (product code is 519), but they
mostly call it Canopus 13 by Texaco. Have them
give you any and all distributors of Texaco products
near you because not all of them carry this or will
go out of their way to get it for you. Call each
distributor and don't take no for an answer.....ask them
to ORDER it for you or ask them what other dealer
might carry it. Most of them want you to order or
buy the 55 gallon drum which will run $ 230 or so
dollars, but you CAN get it in 5 gallon containers which
I find quite practical. I think I paid $25 for the last 5 gallon
container and it lasted most of the summer. Your mileage may
vary.
http://www.texaco.com/products/catalog/docs/internet_byname.html
Once you fill the container you just pump it up and go flying.
When making smoke you want to keep the power up near cruise, otherwise
at low power settings the oil doesn't fully vaporize and you get the raw
oil coating your landing gear and underside of the fuselage.
You still will get some residual oil on the belly but the stuff is harmless
to paint and after you wipe if off it leaves a nice shine !!
When making smoke passes or runs you'll get a fair amount of time
buzzing around after the container is pumped up. You'll know when
it's time to re-pump the system as the smoke gets weak and less
billowy. The thing I like to do is pump up the bottle and do a tight
turn until you make the full circle and fly thru your own trail. Looks neat
from the ground too. It is just a riot. I have as much fun with the smoke
system as I do just flying the thing. Low passes are fun too. Especially
on days when the wind is calm or nearly calm. The smoke stays put.
On windy days the whole effect is not nearly as good. If anyone wants
to see pics of a low pass with the smoke on I can e-mail you an image
personally so it doesn't mess up this Matronics setup.
Happy smoking !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Stearman RPM limitations |
There is a range on the 220 Cont. Stearmans with the
metal prop that are red-lined to avoid continuous operation in
due to the vibration there. It's something like 17 to 1800 rpm
My buddy lets me fly his from time to time
and you can really feel it- and you can easily get out of it
with a little nudge of the throttle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
In a message dated 8/23/2000 9:06:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Happy smoking ! >>
thanks Mike ... great job explaining setup ... I would think "smoke" was a
necessity in a Nie (your message is printed & in file)
Thanks again
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | BRODHEAD 2001 Date Change |
This info is from Grant MacLaren about next year's Piet fly-in....
(8/21/00) The Brodhead Chapter has informed us that the 2001
Pietenpol Flyin will be held July 20, 21 and 22, 2001. (This is a
change from the previous practice of holding the Piet Reunion
concurrently with Oshkosh -- Oshkosh '01 will be July 24 - 30.)
Questions? Send them to Gar Williams at aerocraft(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bendix mag timing |
Joe,
A Bendix magneto like yours needs to be set up for left hand rotation
so use the "L" mark. The two leads are for the primary and secondary
windings. I think the shorter one is for the secondary if I remember
right. The best way to check is with an ohmmeter; the primary windings
will only have about 300 to 500 or so ohms resistance whereas the
secondary will have around 5,000 or so. Measure with the ohmmeter from
ground to the respective lead. The primary lead will connect to the
points and the secondary to the distributer. Some magnetos had a metal
tab sticking out the side as the lead for the secondary and if your old
coil was like this, you have gotten the wrong coil for your mag.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
In a message dated 08/23/2000 9:06:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
<< >I've never sketched the system out but can describe it here and
I'd bet you'd have no trouble in duplicating i >>
Thanks Mike for the detailed description of your smoke system...this time I
made a copy and I'll wager many others did too !! Thing I'll try it on the
Model A. Hope the short stacks will provide the heat required. Don Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
Gene Rambo....thanks for the suggestion on how to handle the 90 degree tape
problem. I'll go that route and try to be super careful with the fit !! Don
Hicks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
To the "Gary" at Flite407(at)aol.com I tried to respond to your personal addess
but it would not go through. Sorry, I'm not the Don Hicks you mentioned. Just
another dude with the same handle I guess. Don Hicks of Alabama
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Harmonics/resonant frequency |
I think the right term should be" resonant frequency" when referring to what
the struts do at certain flying attitudes. Harmonics are just multiples of
the original resonant frequency.
If , on the ground, you were to " twang" the strut with your fist, it would
resonate at exactly the same freq.
Its the same thing that took that bridge down in the 30's, the wind caused
the bridge to " resonate" at that slow but destructive frequency.
my $.02
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Don- Yes, I wonder too if you'll get decent smoke out
of the Model A engine. Worth a shot. I know one thing....
you'll need an IFR rating because you'll be engulfed most
of the time unless you slip it some while smoking :))
That was my only complaint about the Ford engine is that
if you sightsee out of the left side of the plane you inhale
a fair amount of fumes. (but otherwise it's just wonderful !)
Remember to check your charts for smoking and non-smoking
areas :))
Mike C.
PS- Nothing wrong with trying a ground test- even if your engine
isn't mounted on the plane.
PSS- Another idea might be to wrap or coil your 1/4" smoke oil
tube around the exhaust tube of your choice a few times and THEN
inject it thru your fitting ! Aha, preheating yer oil might help lots !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
>Mike,
>Did you varnish your ribs before assembling the wing?
>
> Tom
Tom- No. I waited until everything was glued, sanded, filled,
the works. If I had to do it over again I'd stick with this sequence.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Whew, did I ever open a can!!!!!!!!
First: I finished routing my spars ,d fir, and am pleased I did it. I must
have been tired and impatient when I sent the list about it being
unnecessary. The best comment I received was the fact that its a hobby. Hope
I don't lose sight of that again. Started with 41 1/2 pounds for the four
spars. Now they weigh in a few ounces above 35. Sure it's worth it.
Second: I finally set my jury fitting on the spars at 44 1/2. Sorry I had
some of you cats going back in the closet for that freshman physics book. We
always broke step and cadence in the Infantry when we crossed a flimsy
bridge. Never felt the first one ever shake. If someone decides to mount a
small turbo on the Piets nose all this harmonic resonation may play a part,
until then lets build it slow and low.
Third: That message a few minutes ago from Mike C. sure took my nap time
away from me as I have one week less to finish this bird before flying to
Brodhead 01. See you there.
CMC in La.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
Thanx, Mike! This is great! I'm a long way from needing it, but will file
it away for easy reference. I really appreciate the generous way you share
the joy of flying with the rest of us. Don C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sherri Morton" <smorton3(at)bellsouth.net> |
I apparently have missed some vital info on varnish. I am getting close to cover
time and understand the conventional (non-urethane) spar varnish will be melted
by the MEK in the Stits process covering. Stits recommends using a 2 part
epoxy varnish over the original spar varnish. Can a urethane varnish such as Minwax
Helsman urethane over the conventional varnish provide the needed protection
from the MEK or does anyone have a better suggestion. The conventional varnish
is more attractive to an old sailor such as myself, therefore I want to
use it in the visable locations, but I dont want to cover my Piet and have to
redo.
Item # 2--- I intend to use Continental O200 on my short fuse Piet. Anyone got
a set of plans for an engine mount or know of a source?
Paul Morton
678-482-1661 (H)
770-399-6256 x 5710 (W)
paul.morton(at)ceridian.com
smorton3(at)bellsouth.net
Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
http://webmail.bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Routing Spars |
I may be taking off the top of my head, but I believe that an "I- Beam" has
the same strength as a spar without the routing. You save a total of 16 lbs.
(that's a lot of weight saving). I wish I had done it, as I came in a little
high. It's the top/bottom 1" that carries the load in tension and
compression. The web in between is useful to separate the two 1" . Today I
wouldn't even hesitate, I'd route.
Regards,
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Ya know, with all of this discussion about worrying about lifting the
varnish, I am not sure what part of the structure is being discussed. The
old, tried and true method for wing ribs is to cover the capstrip (and
other areas) with cellophane tape. Dope and, I assume, MEK will not go
through the tape.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finishing Tapes |
Don,
All I can suggest is that you get hold of a "how to tape". If I remember
correctly I did not shrink with the iron before I stretched it around the 90
deg. , but you do have to pull hard and glue it in place. Then shrink it,
the glue ( or at least my glue) held it in place while it was shrinking.
Some glues are destroyed by the heat so you will have to contact your
manufacturer for advice on their system.
Good luck.
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
The hobby reason is as good as any. I really get a kick out of following the
threads on this list. I have been following it since it started a few years
back. I have been very busy these last few years and my GN-1/Piet is still
in the one inch thick stage. I need to finish some ground bound projects to
get the room to assemble further. Open all the cans you want as long as they
relate to our hobby.
Thanks
John Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
In a message dated 8/23/00 10:28:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
DonanClara(at)aol.com writes:
<< Thanks Mike for the detailed description of your smoke system...this time
I
made a copy and I'll wager many others did too !! Thing I'll try it on the
Model A. Hope the short stacks will provide the heat required. Don Hicks
>>
My thoughts exactly !! I think I'll try it on the rear stack, but make the
stack 3 or 4 inches longer than the other three. If it don't work, it should
make for an interesting conversation piece..."Yeah, I had to add 82 grams of
weight, at that paticular arm, to make my CG come out right". :)
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
>From: "Sherri Morton" <smorton3(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:16:48 -0400
>
>
>
>I apparently have missed some vital info on varnish. I am getting close to
>cover time and understand the conventional (non-urethane) spar varnish will
>be melted by the MEK in the Stits process covering. Stits recommends using
>a 2 part epoxy varnish over the original spar varnish. Can a urethane
>varnish such as Minwax Helsman urethane over the conventional varnish
>provide the needed protection from the MEK or does anyone have a better
>suggestion. The conventional varnish is more attractive to an old sailor
>such as myself, therefore I want to use it in the visable locations, but I
>dont want to cover my Piet and have to redo.
>
>Item # 2--- I intend to use Continental O200 on my short fuse Piet. Anyone
>got a set of plans for an engine mount or know of a source?
> Paul Morton
>678-482-1661 (H)
>770-399-6256 x 5710 (W)
>paul.morton(at)ceridian.com
>smorton3(at)bellsouth.net
>
>Sherri
I bought my Piet plans through Chad Wiley of St.Croi Aircraft, I beleive
he is in Illinois, I'm at work and the address is at home, he sells plans,
Center section plans etc. I've talked to him several times and he has been
running a 0-200 for many years, I would bet that he has plans for a 0-200
mount. I will get his address this evening unless someone else online has
it.
Ed G.
Pietenpoller
Palm Harbor Fl.
>Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
>Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
>http://webmail.bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
I'll be interested to see, but I'll bet money that a Model A stack, even
lengthened, is too short to produce proper smoke. More likely you'll cover
your airplane (and yourself) in half burned oil. Good luck, though. (take
a fire extinguisher!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 08/23/2000 12:29:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov writes:
<< Aha, preheating yer oil might help lots !
>>
Thanx Mike...good thought re: pre-heat. The engine is on a test stand now so
it should be easy to experiment. Not sure I want to eat all that smoke (one
of the reasons I left the L.A. area when I retired.)
Don H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
Well guys, I think my parade has been thoroughly soaked. Fact is,you're
probably right !! Now I'll add the fire extinguisher to my test stand. Thanx
to all for the input Don H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lift strut fittings |
Before I begin drilling holes in my beautiful routed spars I wish to lay my
problem before this worthy body of Piet lovers and builders.
In the Pietenpol Manual, Page 66, Note 16 it states that the drawings are not
showing the fittings at the correct angle and suggests they be redesigned to
be in alignment with the struts. The struts show about 32 degrees, The plans
show about 70 degrees. I'm choosing an optimum of 53 degrees.
May I have some suggestions or points on this subject before I drill. Don't
take too long to answer as I have to keep going so to make Brodhead in 01.
CMC in La
P S : Are those welded caps on these fittings really necessary?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Lift strut fittings |
I lined mine up with the struts themselves. I think this is what the
redrawn plans show. it does require a longer fitting, and I didn't weld the
cap across the top.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut fittings
Before I begin drilling holes in my beautiful routed spars I wish to lay my
problem before this worthy body of Piet lovers and builders.
In the Pietenpol Manual, Page 66, Note 16 it states that the drawings are
not
showing the fittings at the correct angle and suggests they be redesigned to
be in alignment with the struts. The struts show about 32 degrees, The
plans
show about 70 degrees. I'm choosing an optimum of 53 degrees.
May I have some suggestions or points on this subject before I drill. Don't
take too long to answer as I have to keep going so to make Brodhead in 01.
CMC in La
P S : Are those welded caps on these fittings really necessary?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut fittings |
Thanks Steve,
Thats what I was hoping to hear.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: ED GRENTZER <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>>
>>
>>
>>Sherri
> I bought my Piet plans through Chad Wiley of St.Croi Aircraft, I beleive
>he is in Illinois, I'm at work and the address is at home, he sells plans,
>Center section plans etc. I've talked to him several times and he has been
>running a 0-200 for many years, I would bet that he has plans for a 0-200
>mount. I will get his address this evening unless someone else online has
>it.
> Ed G.
> Pietenpoller
> Palm Harbor Fl.
I built a 3 ft center section from Chad's prints. I run an 0-200 in my long
fuselge Piet. Chad built the mount. I had to do some modification to the
fittings, but it has been working well for 10 years
The fuel tank that fits the 3 ft center section holds 16 gals.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Jimmy and Connie Dean |
Richard- That yellow and black beauty is owned
by some really nice people in Sanford North Carolina
named James and Connie Dean. He won the Wright
Brothers Award around 1992 and trailered it to Dayton
and then flew it to Brodhead for the fly-in. Then trailered
the plane home from either Brodhead or Dayton again.
Nice plane. It was an old Piet that he restored as I recall.
James is an airline pilot but old planes run in his blood.
The paint is now unfortunately flaking off and cracked all
over as this was the Blue River process so many had trouble
with.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Way back when CAM 18 used to say to put adhesive tape on top the wing
ribs and stringers for chafe resistance and to protect varnish from dope
damage. When I had my dope and fabric shop I used masking tape. Both of
these make a mess when the plane is to be recovered and neither will do
the job with MEK.. On our Piet, We're going to use some fiberglass "pit"
tape that is used to seal the cargo bay liners on airliners. This stuff
is expensive and I've been able to scarf some used rolls up from trash
cans at work; some guys just don't know the value of these things.
The part that is mainly being talked about in the varnish discussion is
where the fabric is glued to the wood, mainly on the fuselage. Here, the
glue and varnished wood come in direct contact and will come loose if it
doesn't adhere well. There is a cockpit comming which will keep the
fabric from completely blowing off, but loose fabric in this area will
look lousy.
The fabric is also glued to the wing and tail varnished wood areas while
covering, but there will also be another piece wrapped around and glued
to the first piece of fabric. The fabric to fabric glued bond should be
at least a two inch seam. This is the most critical as you will be
depending more on the fabric sticking to each other than to the wood.
In any case, the areas where the fabric is glued to the wood must be
protected with a varnish that is not affected by whatever glue is used,
or if the varnish can be contacted and affected by the dope or whatever
finish is being applied, that area must be protected with appropriate
varnish or by being seperated by some sort of tape. I would think
celaphane tape would be eaten by MEK, but I've never tried it. The best
way is to simply test whatever you're going to use with what you plan to
protect the varnish with. Just try it out on a test block before
committing yourself to the airplane.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
>From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:32:05 -0400
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ED GRENTZER <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:26 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>
>
> >>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>Sherri
> > I bought my Piet plans through Chad Wiley of St.Croi Aircraft, I
>beleive
> >he is in Illinois, I'm at work and the address is at home, he sells
>plans,
> >Center section plans etc. I've talked to him several times and he has
>been
> >running a 0-200 for many years, I would bet that he has plans for a 0-200
> >mount. I will get his address this evening unless someone else online has
> >it.
> > Ed G.
> > Pietenpoller
> > Palm Harbor Fl.
>
>
>I built a 3 ft center section from Chad's prints. I run an 0-200 in my long
>fuselge Piet. Chad built the mount. I had to do some modification to the
>fittings, but it has been working well for 10 years
>The fuel tank that fits the 3 ft center section holds 16 gals.
>
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>Mike that three foot center section sounds interesting, I have been looking
>for a way to increase range without losing the storage space in the forward
>cowl area. Does Chad have complete plans for it? Do the cabanes stay
>verticle or are they canted outward? It sounds like a good way to go, have
>you had any problems with it? 16 gallons would be great!
Ed G
Palm Harbor Fl.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Builder's in Great Britian |
Guys- I just stumbled across this neat site about other
builders in the UK. Check it out if you can.
Mike C.
http://www.flyerworld.com/shenty/ukaircampers/libraryindex.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: (no subject) |
--> RV4-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO <david.foelker(at)columbus.af.mil> |
| Subject: | RV4-List: RE: Czech-List: Unsubscribe |
--> RV4-List message posted by: Foelker David J LtCol 50FTS/ADO
Please unsubscribe me from Czech-List.
V/R,
David Foelker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry laporte <llapo(at)dmv.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List: (no subject) |
--> RV-List message posted by: larry laporte
please un-subscribe to all mail list thank you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
Thanks Gene and John for your help. I now know how to time the mag. I put
it together and put it back in the plane but could get no spark. I am
wondering if the new coil is defective. I think it is the correct coil.
(Gene, the mag # is
10-51360-26. The coil came from Aircraft Spruce and is #10-357164-1). The
coil has two leads, a long one and a short one, one coming from each side,
which I think are the same wire since there is continuity between them. The
catalog says "furnished with long and short coil to points leads. It has a
square metal bar sticking out of each end that clamps to the mag housing and
it has a little brass tab in the center of the coil that the distributor
contact pushes against. My questions are, what do I put my ohmmeter leads
against to test the primary and secondary resistances, and what values
should I expect. I don't seem to get what Gene suggested, but I may be
measuring incorrectly. If the coil checks out, is it possible to "bench
test" the mag? The point open and close. I am sure I connected the "points
lead "correctly, ie., to the same place the capacitor connects. Could a bad
capacitor cause the mag not to work at all, or does it just cause the points
to burn. Points look good, by the way, and the old coil was definitely in
bad shape, leaking resin and cracked. What else could be wrong. Thanks for
your help. Joe Kohler. Very frustrating, but what else is new. Its all an
education, isn't it. Hey, my kid just spent about 3 hrs trying to figure
why the new print cartridge didn't print blue, put in the old one and got
blue. Go figure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Section |
-----Original Message-----
From: ED GRENTZER <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>
>
>>From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>>Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:32:05 -0400
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ED GRENTZER <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 10:26 AM
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish
>>Mike that three foot center section sounds interesting, I have been
looking
>>for a way to increase range without losing the storage space in the
forward
>>cowl area. Does Chad have complete plans for it? Do the cabanes stay
>>verticle or are they canted outward? It sounds like a good way to go, have
>>you had any problems with it? 16 gallons would be great!
>
> Ed G
> Palm Harbor Fl.
>>
Yes, Chad does ( at least he did) sell the prints for the 3 ft center
section. Included were prints for a simple "T" shaped wing & cabane attach
fittings,
My cabanes are slanted out. No problem, however, if that bothers you,
something can be worked out to straighten them out.
You are right, 16 gals is great. With an 0-200, I have nearly 3 hrs flying
time ( If one had iron pants ) with a nice reserve.
Chad also makes the gear & prop.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut fittings |
Pietenpol manual???? Page 66???? All this tinme I have been working from
drawings and there is a BOOK?????
----------
> From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut fittings
> Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:56 PM
>
>
> Before I begin drilling holes in my beautiful routed spars I wish to lay
my
> problem before this worthy body of Piet lovers and builders.
> In the Pietenpol Manual, Page 66, Note 16 it states that the drawings are
not
> showing the fittings at the correct angle and suggests they be redesigned
to
> be in alignment with the struts. The struts show about 32 degrees, The
plans
> show about 70 degrees. I'm choosing an optimum of 53 degrees.
> May I have some suggestions or points on this subject before I drill.
Don't
> take too long to answer as I have to keep going so to make Brodhead in
01.
> CMC in La
>
> P S : Are those welded caps on these fittings really necessary?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Well, masking tape won't hold up to anything, but cellophane tape
definitely does. I have used it on many, many airplanes and it does work.
Of course, I prefer to cover with cotton which uses dope rather than
whatever you are thinning with MEK. Even when I use synthetic fabric, I
use dope on it, I wouldn't put stits finishes on an outhouse. Therefore, I
do not know if cellophane would hold up to MEK. Out at the Smithsonian
Garber Facility at "Silver Hill" we have used plain varnish with an epoxy
hardner mixed in and it is dopeproof without additional protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
WOW!! Whose airplane is this?? Dammit, I was planning to paint mine
black and yellow . . didn't know anyone else had. Oh well, back to the
drawing board.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
I could be mistaken but the Piet in the pic looks like the weedon/davis
Piet out of Brodhead. Which now has a model "A" on it.If its the one
I'm thinking of ,its actually dark green and orange. The engine is a
leblond 65 or 75 . They couldn't keep valves in it so switched to the
Ford. Lowell Frank mounted a 145 warner scarab on his short Piet last
winter. it weighs 38
pounds more than the ford. and he didn't change anything for the weight
and balance. It is mounted closer to the fire wall and that might make
the difference. He said the trim is very throttle sensitive. 60% power
gives him around 85mph. But requries some forward stick. You should see
it climb.
Ted T
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke System |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
>I'll bet money that a Model A stack,
> even
> lengthened, is too short to produce proper smoke. More likely
> you'll cover
> your airplane (and yourself) in half burned oil.
Just a thought, With my Radio controlled airplanes we would wrap the
smoke tubing around the cylinder head to preheat the smoke fluid. I
would bet you could wrap some stainless steel tubing around the exhaust
manifold and preheat the smoke fluid before injecting it into the exhaust
stack
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Larry:
The intructions ARE AT THE BOTTOM of every message
V
V
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello
I live in Mexico City and i want to build a Pietenpol,
but the alttitud here that don't let me sleep is the
alttitud, i have a Corvair engine 1961 and i don't
know if is enought for the plane, please help me with
that. thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lift strut fittings |
In a message dated 8/24/00 12:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu
writes:
<< I lined mine up with the struts themselves. I think this is what the
redrawn plans show. it does require a longer fitting, and I didn't weld the
cap across the top.
Steve E. >>
I did mine the same way.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Actually, the one I am asking about is a black/yellow one with a model A.
Dick Weedon's is green. I know Dick was never happy with the radial, as
you said, because of valve problems. I also think there were other reasons
he didn't like it, but I don't remember what they were. I'll ask the next
time I see him.
I still would like to know who owns the black one!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Santana" <aircamper(at)hotmail.com> |
The Black and Yellow Piet. Belongs to James Dean Of Sanford NC.
It was an original Pietenpol Kit from the 30's He found the airplane in
Pieces in WV.
The airplane won the Wright Bros. trophy in 1992 at Dayton.
The airplane has not flown for many years do to the covering deteriating. He
used the Blue River process and it did not hold up.
James is now retired from the airline and restoring a Waco. Hopefully he
will refinish the Piet next.
Joe Santana
444MH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Plans, Book- All available at this site. |
>
>Pietenpol manual???? Page 66???? All this tinme I have been working from
>drawings and there is a BOOK?????
Group- To assist those who might not be aware of this Pietenpol Family Web
site which contains all the info of ordering plans and other builder
information,
be sure to visit this site: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
Javier,
Your area altitude is really high (6,400 Ft ASL) for
the Piet, but will hear comments...
I will get in touch with you off list (someone in
spanish as least:-)
Saludos de GDL
Gary Gower
--- javier cruz wrote:
>
>
> Hello
> I live in Mexico City and i want to build a
> Pietenpol,
> but the alttitud here that don't let me sleep is the
> alttitud, i have a Corvair engine 1961 and i don't
> know if is enought for the plane, please help me
> with
> that. thanks
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Javier,
Got to
http://www.flycorvair.com
for a good place to start looking at Corvair engines on a Piet.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mexico City Piet |
Javier Cruz,
The Corvair engine is a fine engine choice for the Piet and would do very
well at the altitude you are there. Go for it.
Get the plans, read and study them and check with the Piet-List every day.
There will be lots of help available.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Hi,
The corvair is a good engine for the Pietenpol, however you must get hold of
the 110 H.P. type. I don't believe that it was made in 1961. It's the smog
engine after 1966. You may find that the one you have is under powered,
perhaps the 80 H.P. or 95 H.p. Greenbriar. Hope this helps, you will need
all the power you can muster at 10000 feet altitude.
regards,
Domenico Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
I'm coming in late on this varnish thing, but I can say that the Polyfiber
(Stits) Epoxy Varnish works great and I believe I have also used West
System Epoxy Varnish on another project. These are not attacked by anything
you might apply, including MEK and Polytak and other stuff so once you put
it on you don't have to work about it. Plus, I think it is a very durable
product. Mine looks great after 14 years on all exposed parts. Epoxy is a
very durable material and provides great protection and basically is not
attacked by most solvents.
I am currently working on a Heath Parasol since I love these old planes. It
needs a spoked wheel about 20 inches in diameter counting the tire. I have
some 2.25 inch tires on spoked wheels that are sold for the Graham Lee
Neuport and the Ultralite Jenny by LEAF but they look too flimsy. Are there
any decent motorcycle wheels that will take the side loading an airplane
might experience or do I need to make my own and does anyone know of plans
or kits for such. Thanks, Joe Kohler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish, Wheels |
Joe,
Check with a motorcycle salvage yard for wheels. You can use any hub with
any rim..almost. I started with a Honda 90 trail bike hub (2) and found rims I
liked that fit the Dunlop tires that look antique airplane, and had Buchanan's
true and wire up some 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings and
brakes. Look good, have brakes, and are hell for stout.
Cheers,
Warren
Joseph Kohler wrote:
>
> I'm coming in late on this varnish thing, but I can say that the Polyfiber
> (Stits) Epoxy Varnish works great and I believe I have also used West
> System Epoxy Varnish on another project. These are not attacked by anything
> you might apply, including MEK and Polytak and other stuff so once you put
> it on you don't have to work about it. Plus, I think it is a very durable
> product. Mine looks great after 14 years on all exposed parts. Epoxy is a
> very durable material and provides great protection and basically is not
> attacked by most solvents.
>
> I am currently working on a Heath Parasol since I love these old planes. It
> needs a spoked wheel about 20 inches in diameter counting the tire. I have
> some 2.25 inch tires on spoked wheels that are sold for the Graham Lee
> Neuport and the Ultralite Jenny by LEAF but they look too flimsy. Are there
> any decent motorcycle wheels that will take the side loading an airplane
> might experience or do I need to make my own and does anyone know of plans
> or kits for such. Thanks, Joe Kohler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
OK guys, I need help real fast!! I know there has been discussion about
the tail surfaces on here, but I have not seen a couple of specific
problems I ran into today. I started out to assemble the surfaces and have
some questions I cannot resolve.
#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil"
of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show the
center beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. I
believe, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have the
width of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2"
(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear
"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4"
(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense to
me. Am I right or wrong?
#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawing
suggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but it
does not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting the
plywood gussets on.
#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in the
stabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate with
the end pieces I asked about in #2 above??
This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I am
all set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. I
hope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
Gene,
This was the most confusing area of construction for me. What you have to
do , because most of the components are different thicknesses, use shims
under the thinner pieces . The trick is to get all the centerlines lined
up, glue the joints, then when dry file/rasp the joint into a taper that a
gusset will glue onto. Then after you rasp/file/sand and shape, the thing
looks pretty good.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 7:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces
>
>OK guys, I need help real fast!! I know there has been discussion about
>the tail surfaces on here, but I have not seen a couple of specific
>problems I ran into today. I started out to assemble the surfaces and have
>some questions I cannot resolve.
>
>#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil"
>of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show the
>center beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. I
>believe, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have the
>width of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2"
>(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear
>"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4"
>(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense to
>me. Am I right or wrong?
>
>#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawing
>suggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but it
>does not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting the
>plywood gussets on.
>
>#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in the
>stabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate with
>the end pieces I asked about in #2 above??
>
>This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I am
>all set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. I
>hope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
I know that the pieces are different thicknesses, and I know that I have to
shim them. I have already done all of that. The question is (1) which way
do the parts lie (2) what material is used on the ends, and (3) whether
the spars are tapered~!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Of course, if you don't get it onto the Piet, you can always buy four or
five flying Piets for what that Cirrus engine is worth!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: metal shrinker |
Walt, I guess you are talking about the long version with a flat
firewall/Continental. What guage steel did you use? Did you cut out around
the motor mount brackets or build the brackets on top of the firewall? I'm
at that point on my Grega and I am thinking about this too.
Another question for you and the group...
Also, I'm ready to build my aluminum coamings (sp)?? What size and type
aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood but
it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer - do
you just use zinc chromate???
So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
Thanks, Bert
(Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
> It was time to make the firewall, so my AP friend loaned me his metal
> shrinker for the curved overlap on top. I didn't know how much to
overlap,
> so I went with 3/4". Guess it can be cut down later , if necessary.
> This thing is quite a gadget, and takes some time to get used to. Man,
who
> thinks of these things?
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | gear/white ash question |
The 1933 plans show the two white ash pieces tapered to 3/4" at the
ends for the cub-style gear. A few questions:
1. Where can I get full-size plans for the Jenny-stype gear (name,
address, cost?)
2. Will clean ash (not white ash) do the job? (thats what I have, it's
very nice wood)
3. Are the ends tapered to 3/4" for the jenny style gear as well?
I need to know these before I can glue them (and my front seat) in
place.
Many thanks again!
Richard
p.s. For those interested, I got to sit in my pilots seat for the 1st
time last week. Woo hoo!
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish, Wheels |
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
Gosh, thanks for your info. I actually have a Honda 90 that my son had and
was looking at the front wheels but wondering if they were wide enough at
the hub. It looks like the axle is about 7/8" probably metric and mine
Heath would accomodate 3/4 but I could probably have it turned down where it
sticks into my landing gear do you think. I suppose you used the front
wheels, correct? I would cover the spokes with fabric, so I could use the
original rims if I wanted, correct? Thanks, exciting info. Are these easy
to find at a salvage yard?
>
> Joe,
> Check with a motorcycle salvage yard for wheels. You can use any hub
with
> any rim..almost. I started with a Honda 90 trail bike hub (2) and found
rims I
> liked that fit the Dunlop tires that look antique airplane, and had
Buchanan's
> true and wire up some 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings
and
> brakes. Look good, have brakes, and are hell for stout.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> Joseph Kohler wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm coming in late on this varnish thing, but I can say that the
Polyfiber
> > (Stits) Epoxy Varnish works great and I believe I have also used West
> > System Epoxy Varnish on another project. These are not attacked by
anything
> > you might apply, including MEK and Polytak and other stuff so once you
put
> > it on you don't have to work about it. Plus, I think it is a very
durable
> > product. Mine looks great after 14 years on all exposed parts. Epoxy
is a
> > very durable material and provides great protection and basically is not
> > attacked by most solvents.
> >
> > I am currently working on a Heath Parasol since I love these old planes.
It
> > needs a spoked wheel about 20 inches in diameter counting the tire. I
have
> > some 2.25 inch tires on spoked wheels that are sold for the Graham Lee
> > Neuport and the Ultralite Jenny by LEAF but they look too flimsy. Are
there
> > any decent motorcycle wheels that will take the side loading an airplane
> > might experience or do I need to make my own and does anyone know of
plans
> > or kits for such. Thanks, Joe Kohler
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: metal shrinker |
Bert,
I think the FAA minimum is .018", thats what I used. After looking at all
of the catalogs and shipping costs, I went to a local heating and
airconditioning supply nearby and got a 4x10x .018" thk. galvanized sheet
for $10.00.
rolled it up, and away I want.
As far as the engine mount bkts, I slotted the points where the brackets
came through the steel with a Dremmel tool ( I love my Dremmel).
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
>Walt, I guess you are talking about the long version with a flat
>firewall/Continental. What guage steel did you use? Did you cut out
around
>the motor mount brackets or build the brackets on top of the firewall? I'm
>at that point on my Grega and I am thinking about this too.
>
>Another question for you and the group...
>
>Also, I'm ready to build my aluminum coamings (sp)?? What size and type
>aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood but
>it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
>instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
>panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
>coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer - do
>you just use zinc chromate???
>
>So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
>
>Thanks, Bert
>(Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
>
>http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To: "piet discussion"
>Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:32 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
>
>
>>
>> It was time to make the firewall, so my AP friend loaned me his metal
>> shrinker for the curved overlap on top. I didn't know how much to
>overlap,
>> so I went with 3/4". Guess it can be cut down later , if necessary.
>> This thing is quite a gadget, and takes some time to get used to. Man,
>who
>> thinks of these things?
>> walt
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Click here for Free Video!!
>> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish, Wheels |
Joseph,
I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I went to.
Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles for $40.00.
Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes and had
Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings and
brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I learned about
various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A rim that will
fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are almost identical,
and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires made on each
production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and with some help
from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will fit both your
axles and the hub.
I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the design. Disc
breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Warren and Joseph,
Just a note of caution:
The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widen
them. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubs
bored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are 21"
dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube axle
0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mm
axle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both sides
by the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one side
only. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia. solid.
The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of the
motorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between the
backing plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used a
threaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. I
didn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet speeds
and are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to stop
the axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy's
solution on the Aircamper website.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
>
> Joseph,
> I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I went
to.
> Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles for
$40.00.
> Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes and had
> Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings and
> brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I learned
about
> various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A rim that
will
> fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are almost
identical,
> and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires made on
each
> production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and with some
help
> from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will fit both
your
> axles and the hub.
> I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the design.
Disc
> breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi John,
Had heard a number of comments on this site and others regarding the axle.
So...I did a personal shop test. The 4130 tube did not begin to stand up to the
same bending test that the Honda axle did. No kidding!
Cheers,
Warren
John McNarry wrote:
>
> Warren and Joseph,
> Just a note of caution:
> The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widen
> them. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubs
> bored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are 21"
> dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube axle
> 0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mm
> axle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both sides
> by the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one side
> only. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia. solid.
> The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of the
> motorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between the
> backing plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used a
> threaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. I
> didn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet speeds
> and are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to stop
> the axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy's
> solution on the Aircamper website.
> John Mc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
>
>
> >
> > Joseph,
> > I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I went
> to.
> > Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles for
> $40.00.
> > Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes and had
> > Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings and
> > brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I learned
> about
> > various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A rim that
> will
> > fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are almost
> identical,
> > and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires made on
> each
> > production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and with some
> help
> > from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will fit both
> your
> > axles and the hub.
> > I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the design.
> Disc
> > breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
> > Cheers,
> > Warren
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: metal shrinker |
Hey Guys....
I don't know how or why but SOMEHOW the server upchucked this message that I
sent way back on MAY 1st????????????????
Must be a gremlin or something. Anyway, I didnt want any body to think ole
bert had one margarita too many and got keyboard happy.
Not that anyone cares, but I did finally use .035 aluminum for the cockpit
coamings. I found some aluminum sheet at a building supply storein
Tallahassee. Got the whole 4by 8 sheet for 35.00. A real savings over the
aluminum I would have ordered. Saved on shipping and got it in a full
dimension (4x8). Worked great, easy to cut with a jigsaw, and in that
dimension was able to cut a continuous piece so that there is no seam on the
centerline (as would have been tha case if I used 2x4 sheets UPS'ed in.)
The only problem was how to get a good, pretty bend along the edges to
conform to the furring strips running along the longerons. Wish I had a
sheet metal break. I bet somebody in this group knows how to build a break
to bend light gauge al or steel.....
Anyway, looks ok and should work just fine - all for 35.00.
Will start covering the tail feathers and fuse next weekend.
Bert (who wishes he could retire 20 years early and build airplanes)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
> Walt, I guess you are talking about the long version with a flat
> firewall/Continental. What guage steel did you use? Did you cut out
around
> the motor mount brackets or build the brackets on top of the firewall?
I'm
> at that point on my Grega and I am thinking about this too.
>
> Another question for you and the group...
>
> Also, I'm ready to build my aluminum coamings (sp)?? What size and type
> aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood
but
> it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
> instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of the
> panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
> coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer -
do
> you just use zinc chromate???
>
> So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
>
> Thanks, Bert
> (Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is Good!)
>
> http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: "piet discussion"
> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:32 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
>
>
> >
> > It was time to make the firewall, so my AP friend loaned me his metal
> > shrinker for the curved overlap on top. I didn't know how much to
> overlap,
> > so I went with 3/4". Guess it can be cut down later , if necessary.
> > This thing is quite a gadget, and takes some time to get used to. Man,
> who
> > thinks of these things?
> > walt
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > Click here for Free Video!!
> > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear/white ash question |
Richard, I just ran into this!!! For the spreader bar ("Jenny") type gear,
there are no ash cross pieces. The fittings straddle a standard 1" square
cross piece just like everywhere else on the fuselage!!!!! The drawing for
this type of gear is in the Hoopman drawings and in the Flying and Glider
Manual version of the plans. The other alternative is to alter the
fittings to something halfway between the "correct" fitting for the
spreader gear and the fittings for the split axle ("improved") gear. This
is what some of the other guys have done and what I am going to do only
because I glued in the ash cross piece before I figured this out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: metal shrinker |
Ask around . . there are several shops in the TLH area that will let you
use their break to make a couple of bends or would even do it for you for
free.
----------
> From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
> Date: Saturday, August 26, 2000 7:36 PM
>
>
> Hey Guys....
>
> I don't know how or why but SOMEHOW the server upchucked this message
that I
> sent way back on MAY 1st????????????????
>
> Must be a gremlin or something. Anyway, I didnt want any body to think
ole
> bert had one margarita too many and got keyboard happy.
>
> Not that anyone cares, but I did finally use .035 aluminum for the
cockpit
> coamings. I found some aluminum sheet at a building supply storein
> Tallahassee. Got the whole 4by 8 sheet for 35.00. A real savings over
the
> aluminum I would have ordered. Saved on shipping and got it in a full
> dimension (4x8). Worked great, easy to cut with a jigsaw, and in that
> dimension was able to cut a continuous piece so that there is no seam on
the
> centerline (as would have been tha case if I used 2x4 sheets UPS'ed in.)
>
> The only problem was how to get a good, pretty bend along the edges to
> conform to the furring strips running along the longerons. Wish I had a
> sheet metal break. I bet somebody in this group knows how to build a
break
> to bend light gauge al or steel.....
>
> Anyway, looks ok and should work just fine - all for 35.00.
>
> Will start covering the tail feathers and fuse next weekend.
>
> Bert (who wishes he could retire 20 years early and build airplanes)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
>
>
> >
> > Walt, I guess you are talking about the long version with a flat
> > firewall/Continental. What guage steel did you use? Did you cut out
> around
> > the motor mount brackets or build the brackets on top of the firewall?
> I'm
> > at that point on my Grega and I am thinking about this too.
> >
> > Another question for you and the group...
> >
> > Also, I'm ready to build my aluminum coamings (sp)?? What size and
type
> > aluminum sheet is appropriate. I almost built them out of 1/16 plywood
> but
> > it seems most folks use aluminum. Not sure it matters, because my
> > instrument panel comes out easily for access to the inner sanctum of
the
> > panel.. Also, do you just get small brass screws to attach them (the
> > coamings) to the filler strips along the longerons? What about primer
> do
> > you just use zinc chromate???
> >
> > So many questions and so little time (....to work on the "Air Anvil")
> >
> > Thanks, Bert
> > (Who got to fly Poplar Piet again over the weekend - Life Sure Is
Good!)
> >
> > http://members.surfsouth.com/~conolys/index.htm
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
> > To: "piet discussion"
> > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:32 PM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal shrinker
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It was time to make the firewall, so my AP friend loaned me his metal
> > > shrinker for the curved overlap on top. I didn't know how much to
> > overlap,
> > > so I went with 3/4". Guess it can be cut down later , if necessary.
> > > This thing is quite a gadget, and takes some time to get used to.
Man,
> > who
> > > thinks of these things?
> > > walt
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > > Click here for Free Video!!
> > > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
I thought I had posted this, but perhaps I did not. Thanks folks for your
help with the timing.
I now know how to time the mag. I put it together and put it back in the
plane but could get no spark.
I am wondering if the new coil is defective. I think it is the correct
coil.
(the mag # is 10-51360-26. The coil came from Aircraft Spruce and is
#10-357164-1). The coil has two leads, a long one and a short one, one
coming from each side,
which I think are the same wire since there is continuity (no resistance)
between them. The catalog says "furnished with long and short coil to
points leads" so this
makes sense. It has a square metal bar sticking out of each end that clamps
to the mag housing and
it has a little brass tab in the center of the coil that the distributor
contact pushes against. My questions are, what do I put my ohmmeter leads
against to test the primary and secondary resistances, and what values
should I expect. I get 14000 ohm if I connect the meter across the brass
tab (distributer lead?) and either of the point leads. I get no reading
(infinite resistance) between a point lead and the metal bar (ground?). I
also get infinite resistance between the brass tab and the metal bar. I
don't know what else to measure. Does this sound like a defective NEW coil?
If the coil checks out, is it possible to "bench test" the mag? The points
open and close. By the way, The mag worked fine until a couple of weeks
ago, and the old coil definitely seemed bad (5000 ohm
between distributer and points, zero between points lead and ground, and
plus it was cracked open and oozing resin. I am sure I connected the "points
lead "correctly, ie., to the same place the capacitor connects. Could a bad
capacitor cause the mag not to work at all, or does it just cause the points
to burn. Points look good, by the way, and the old coil was definitely in
bad shape, leaking resin and cracked. What else could be wrong. Thanks for
your help. Joe Kohler. Very frustrating, but what else is new. Its all an
education, isn't it. Hey, my kid just spent about 3 hrs trying to figure
why the new print cartridge didn't print blue, put in the old one and got
blue. Go figure.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
I wouldn't assume the new ciol was bad, but I have never known the proper
resistances to check one. I looked at the AS&S catalog and I see what you
mean re: two point wires. What did you do with the extra wire? could it
be touching something? Also, I do not think the mag would work with a bad
condensor. Are you sure you timed it right inside? Can't you hand test
the mag before you put it on the engine?
----------
> From: Joseph Kohler <kohler(at)Dellnet.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mags
> Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:39 AM
>
>
> I thought I had posted this, but perhaps I did not. Thanks folks for
your
> help with the timing.
> I now know how to time the mag. I put it together and put it back in the
> plane but could get no spark.
> I am wondering if the new coil is defective. I think it is the correct
> coil.
> (the mag # is 10-51360-26. The coil came from Aircraft Spruce and is
> #10-357164-1). The coil has two leads, a long one and a short one, one
> coming from each side,
> which I think are the same wire since there is continuity (no resistance)
> between them. The catalog says "furnished with long and short coil to
> points leads" so this
> makes sense. It has a square metal bar sticking out of each end that
clamps
> to the mag housing and
> it has a little brass tab in the center of the coil that the distributor
> contact pushes against. My questions are, what do I put my ohmmeter
leads
> against to test the primary and secondary resistances, and what values
> should I expect. I get 14000 ohm if I connect the meter across the brass
> tab (distributer lead?) and either of the point leads. I get no reading
> (infinite resistance) between a point lead and the metal bar (ground?).
I
> also get infinite resistance between the brass tab and the metal bar. I
> don't know what else to measure. Does this sound like a defective NEW
coil?
> If the coil checks out, is it possible to "bench test" the mag? The
points
> open and close. By the way, The mag worked fine until a couple of weeks
> ago, and the old coil definitely seemed bad (5000 ohm
> between distributer and points, zero between points lead and ground, and
> plus it was cracked open and oozing resin. I am sure I connected the
"points
> lead "correctly, ie., to the same place the capacitor connects. Could a
bad
> capacitor cause the mag not to work at all, or does it just cause the
points
> to burn. Points look good, by the way, and the old coil was definitely
in
> bad shape, leaking resin and cracked. What else could be wrong. Thanks
for
> your help. Joe Kohler. Very frustrating, but what else is new. Its all
an
> education, isn't it. Hey, my kid just spent about 3 hrs trying to figure
> why the new print cartridge didn't print blue, put in the old one and got
> blue. Go figure.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mags
>
> I wouldn't assume the new ciol was bad, but I have never known the proper
> resistances to check one. I looked at the AS&S catalog and I see what you
> mean re: two point wires. What did you do with the extra wire? could it
> be touching something? Also, I do not think the mag would work with a bad
> condensor. Are you sure you timed it right inside? Can't you hand test
> the mag before you put it on the engine?
>
> ----------
> > From: Joseph Kohler <kohler(at)Dellnet.com>
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mags
> > Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:39 AM
> >
>
> >
> > I thought I had posted this, but perhaps I did not. Thanks folks for
> your
> > help with the timing.
> > I now know how to time the mag. I put it together and put it back in
the
> > plane but could get no spark.
> > I am wondering if the new coil is defective. I think it is the correct
> > coil.
> > (the mag # is 10-51360-26. The coil came from Aircraft Spruce and is
> > #10-357164-1). The coil has two leads, a long one and a short one, one
> > coming from each side,
> > which I think are the same wire since there is continuity (no
resistance)
> > between them. The catalog says "furnished with long and short coil to
> > points leads" so this
> > makes sense. It has a square metal bar sticking out of each end that
> clamps
> > to the mag housing and
> > it has a little brass tab in the center of the coil that the distributor
> > contact pushes against. My questions are, what do I put my ohmmeter
> leads
> > against to test the primary and secondary resistances, and what values
> > should I expect. I get 14000 ohm if I connect the meter across the
brass
> > tab (distributer lead?) and either of the point leads. I get no reading
> > (infinite resistance) between a point lead and the metal bar (ground?).
> I
> > also get infinite resistance between the brass tab and the metal bar.
I
> > don't know what else to measure. Does this sound like a defective NEW
> coil?
> > If the coil checks out, is it possible to "bench test" the mag? The
> points
> > open and close. By the way, The mag worked fine until a couple of weeks
> > ago, and the old coil definitely seemed bad (5000 ohm
> > between distributer and points, zero between points lead and ground, and
> > plus it was cracked open and oozing resin. I am sure I connected the
> "points
> > lead "correctly, ie., to the same place the capacitor connects. Could a
> bad
> > capacitor cause the mag not to work at all, or does it just cause the
> points
> > to burn. Points look good, by the way, and the old coil was definitely
> in
> > bad shape, leaking resin and cracked. What else could be wrong. Thanks
> for
> > your help. Joe Kohler. Very frustrating, but what else is new. Its
all
> an
> > education, isn't it. Hey, my kid just spent about 3 hrs trying to
figure
> > why the new print cartridge didn't print blue, put in the old one and
got
> > blue. Go figure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
I taped off the extra point lead with several layers of electrical tape. I
am sure I timed it correctly, and it didn't give a spark when I turned it
over by hand or in the plane. How does one test a condenser? Joe Kohler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | White ash x member taper |
Speaking of tapering the ash x members, in the wood kit I bought from
Western Air Craft Sup. the ash pieces are 3/4 in. thick all the way
across, eliminating the need to taper the ends. Also another way to save
a few oz's. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Hi Warren
Just curious what method did you use to compare the axle strength?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
>
> Hi John,
> Had heard a number of comments on this site and others regarding the
axle.
> So...I did a personal shop test. The 4130 tube did not begin to stand up
to the
> same bending test that the Honda axle did. No kidding!
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> John McNarry wrote:
>
> >
> > Warren and Joseph,
> > Just a note of caution:
> > The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widen
> > them. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubs
> > bored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are
21"
> > dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube
axle
> > 0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mm
> > axle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both
sides
> > by the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one
side
> > only. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia.
solid.
> > The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of the
> > motorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between
the
> > backing plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used a
> > threaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. I
> > didn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet
speeds
> > and are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to
stop
> > the axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy's
> > solution on the Aircamper website.
> > John Mc
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Joseph,
> > > I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I
went
> > to.
> > > Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles for
> > $40.00.
> > > Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes and
had
> > > Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings
and
> > > brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I
learned
> > about
> > > various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A rim
that
> > will
> > > fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are almost
> > identical,
> > > and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires made on
> > each
> > > production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and with
some
> > help
> > > from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will fit
both
> > your
> > > axles and the hub.
> > > I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the
design.
> > Disc
> > > breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Warren
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
The standard distance between the wheel centerlines is 56 inches, which I used
as the maximum leverage distance if one were to make a hard landing on one
wheel, while a straight axle was held in place by the opposite gear attachment
to the fuselage.
I placed the 4130 tube thru a hole in a piece of wood and put this fixture
in my shop vice. I then put a 5 foot piece of pipe over the end of the 4130
tube and proceeded to place leverage force....once past the initial side wall
strength, the tube bent completely with unpleasant ease.
I did the same with the solid 1/2 steel axle. The axle did eventually bend,
but it took a considerably greater effort, and did not collapse fully. Not
exactly scientific, however, it did answer my basic question of weather "Plan A"
or "Plan B" provided better peace of mind for me. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Warren
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
The standard distance between the wheel centerlines is 56 inches, which I used
as the maximum leverage distance if one were to make a hard landing on one
wheel, while a straight axle was held in place by the opposite gear attachment
to the fuselage.
I placed the 4130 tube thru a hole in a piece of wood and put this fixture
in my shop vice. I then put a 5 foot piece of pipe over the end of the 4130
tube and proceeded to place leverage force....once past the initial side wall
strength, the tube bent completely with unpleasant ease.
I did the same with the solid 1/2 steel axle. The axle did eventually bend,
but it took a considerably greater effort, and did not collapse fully. Not
exactly scientific, however, it did answer my basic question of weather "Plan A"
or "Plan B" provided better peace of mind for me. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Warren
John McNarry wrote:
>
> Hi Warren
> Just curious what method did you use to compare the axle strength?
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
>
>
> >
> > Hi John,
> > Had heard a number of comments on this site and others regarding the
> axle.
> > So...I did a personal shop test. The 4130 tube did not begin to stand up
> to the
> > same bending test that the Honda axle did. No kidding!
> > Cheers,
> > Warren
> >
> > John McNarry wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > Warren and Joseph,
> > > Just a note of caution:
> > > The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't widen
> > > them. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the hubs
> > > bored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built are
> 21"
> > > dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter tube
> axle
> > > 0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid 19mm
> > > axle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on both
> sides
> > > by the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from one
> side
> > > only. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia.
> solid.
> > > The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of the
> > > motorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits between
> the
> > > backing plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used a
> > > threaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play. I
> > > didn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet
> speeds
> > > and are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is to
> stop
> > > the axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike Cuy's
> > > solution on the Aircamper website.
> > > John Mc
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Joseph,
> > > > I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I
> went
> > > to.
> > > > Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles for
> > > $40.00.
> > > > Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes and
> had
> > > > Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new bearings
> and
> > > > brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I
> learned
> > > about
> > > > various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A rim
> that
> > > will
> > > > fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are almost
> > > identical,
> > > > and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires made on
> > > each
> > > > production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and with
> some
> > > help
> > > > from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will fit
> both
> > > your
> > > > axles and the hub.
> > > > I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the
> design.
> > > Disc
> > > > breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Warren
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dkowell(at)cstone.net (David Kowell) |
I am building GN 1 and have been kicking engine choises around for along time
now it is down to E81 or corvair anyone out there flying same PLEASE let me
know about these two choises PLEASE thanks David Kowell
oil can wrote:
>
> I might just take you up on that Warren. First, maybe I'll contact Buchanans
> again to see if they really have changed their minds about doing a/c wheels.
>
> My hubs are done in steel, and bushed, ready to go, but lately I've been
> building a redrive on my lathe for ea-81 soob, so might just turn some
> hubs from alum and set bearings in them. Then send those off for spoke
> wheels instead of using the clunky old steel ones.
>
> Bob
>
> >From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buchanan's
> >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:56:22 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > Buchanan's is close to where I live. Let me know what you want done
> >and
> >I'll help if I can. They have done two wheels for me with the 9 gauge
> >stainless
> >spokes without any problem.
> >Warren
> >
> >oil can wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the face
> >!
> > >
> > > E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
> > > company.
> > >
> > > I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
> > >
> > > I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
> > >
> > > Bob.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question: Engine prices |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Does any one have an idea what the cost of a C-85 with less then 50 hr
should be or where I can look to find out? Any FOR SALE web sites out
there that you know about? I do not have access to trade a plane or I
would have looked there. I am thinking of making an offer to buy one but
I don't want to pay to much.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
Thanks Warren
Now you've got me thinking some more. I still have some 090 wall 1.5
4130 and think I'll try your test myself. If it fails too some I'll try
installing a vertical stiffener inside the tube. However one can't continue
reenforcing everything or soon the tank won't fly!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
>
> The standard distance between the wheel centerlines is 56 inches, which I
used
> as the maximum leverage distance if one were to make a hard landing on one
> wheel, while a straight axle was held in place by the opposite gear
attachment
> to the fuselage.
> I placed the 4130 tube thru a hole in a piece of wood and put this
fixture
> in my shop vice. I then put a 5 foot piece of pipe over the end of the
4130
> tube and proceeded to place leverage force....once past the initial side
wall
> strength, the tube bent completely with unpleasant ease.
> I did the same with the solid 1/2 steel axle. The axle did eventually
bend,
> but it took a considerably greater effort, and did not collapse fully.
Not
> exactly scientific, however, it did answer my basic question of weather
"Plan A"
> or "Plan B" provided better peace of mind for me. Hope this helps.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> John McNarry wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Warren
> > Just curious what method did you use to compare the axle strength?
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheels
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > > Had heard a number of comments on this site and others regarding
the
> > axle.
> > > So...I did a personal shop test. The 4130 tube did not begin to stand
up
> > to the
> > > same bending test that the Honda axle did. No kidding!
> > > Cheers,
> > > Warren
> > >
> > > John McNarry wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Warren and Joseph,
> > > > Just a note of caution:
> > > > The Honda wheels are probably strong enough even if you don't
widen
> > > > them. Seriously consider removing the ball bearings and having the
hubs
> > > > bored out for a plain bronze bushing 1 1/2" I.D.. The wheels I built
are
> > 21"
> > > > dirt bike wheels and that is the method used. The larger diameter
tube
> > axle
> > > > 0.090" wall 4130 is much stronger in bending moments than the solid
19mm
> > > > axle the bike uses. The bike axle is designed to be supported on
both
> > sides
> > > > by the fork ends. The aircraft application supports the wheel from
one
> > side
> > > > only. I suspect you would find the axles bending even at 7/8" dia.
> > solid.
> > > > The tube axle has plates welded to it that the backing plates of the
> > > > motorcycle brakes are bolted to an aluminum thrust washer fits
between
> > the
> > > > backing plate and hub. On the outside of the bushed wheel hub I used
a
> > > > threaded nut 1 1/2" 16 and it allows for the adjustment of end play.
I
> > > > didn't worry about grease seals as the wheel revolve slowly at Piet
> > speeds
> > > > and are easy to remove clean and relube. The next biggest problem is
to
> > stop
> > > > the axle rotation from braking if using a straight axle. See Mike
Cuy's
> > > > solution on the Aircamper website.
> > > > John Mc
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 12:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish, Wheels
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Joseph,
> > > > > I had no trouble at all in the first motorcycle salvage yard I
> > went
> > > > to.
> > > > > Bought two complete Honda 90m front wheels, including the axles
for
> > > > $40.00.
> > > > > Took them home, cleaned them up carefully, removed the old spokes
and
> > had
> > > > > Buchanans install 9 gauge stainless steel spokes. Put in new
bearings
> > and
> > > > > brakes. I then chose Dunlop F17 100/90-17 tires. This is where I
> > learned
> > > > about
> > > > > various rims. The Honda 90 rims have limited tire selection. A
rim
> > that
> > > > will
> > > > > fit the Dunlop F11 tires might be better, as these tires are
almost
> > > > identical,
> > > > > and about 1/3 the cost, due to the much higher number of tires
made on
> > > > each
> > > > > production run. You could punch out the standard bearings and
with
> > some
> > > > help
> > > > > from a bearing shop probably come up with a bearing set that will
fit
> > both
> > > > your
> > > > > axles and the hub.
> > > > > I just wanted some breaks that didn't look too modern for the
> > design.
> > > > Disc
> > > > > breaks from go-carts would work really great too.
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Warren
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
The thread on axle strength brings up some interesting questions. are
you planing on brakes? If so you'll need to restrict axle rotation.
I think the best ones i've seen add a square length of tubing over and
welded to the round axle, just inboard of the wheel. By adding a yoke of
square tubing or strap steel, axle rotation is restricted while allowing
the axle to move up and down.
Even without brakes, most guys restrict the up ward movement of the
axle with a cable. so that In the event of a broken bungy you don't lose
everything.
What this does is change the bending moment from 56" to about 12"
making a hard landing bend much more unlikely.
If you land hard enough to bend an axle 1 1/2 x .090 or .120 you can
bet you'll have more than a bent axle to worry about.
If your going to weld a steel axle into a tube axle then that's the
way I would test it. I think welding is going to change the strength
characteristics in the weld zone.
Maybe welding a plug into the tube that the axle could be threaded
into would work.
There's a ton of straight axle Piets out there. I've never heard of a
bent axle. maybe their just not talking.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White ash x member taper |
Leon, that is not the direction we are talking aobut tapering them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Ya know, I have only asked questions on here on two occasions . . .
specific questions about how a particular piece is "supposed" to go on the
Piet, and I have yet to get an answer to either one. We have beaten the
wire wheel question to death a hundred times, as well as the weight and
balance issue (should I move the wing or lengthen the engine mount?).
Aren't there any BUILDERS on here who can answer a simple question?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TJTREV(at)webtv.net (Theodore Trevorrow) |
| Subject: | Re: tail surfaces |
Mr. Pietenpol adjusted weight and balance by moving the wing . unless
its way out. Then I'd start looking to solve the underlying problem.
There was a new Piet at Brodhead this year built by a guy named Perkins
I think. He welded his cabane braces instead of making them adjustable.
Then!!! he realised he was out of trim. He solved the problem by moving
the "A" forward 7" .It looked good . took away some of that pugnosed
look that Piets have. If you go much futher forward they start looking
like turboprops. By the way this plane was beautiful. some of the best
workmanship I've ever seen.
Gulf orange . A real prize winner.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Unfortunantly, the only way I know of to check a condensor is to replace it
with a good one. Works with auto ignitions that way, anyway.
Jay Travis
Joseph Kohler wrote:
>
> I taped off the extra point lead with several layers of electrical tape. I
> am sure I timed it correctly, and it didn't give a spark when I turned it
> over by hand or in the plane. How does one test a condenser? Joe Kohler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
I've heard of one accident where a bungee broke and the axle travelled up
far enough to let the wheel hit the struts. the aircraft groudlooped, nosed
over and ended upside down. Mike Cuy's pictures in the landing gear section
of Aircamper.org show a simple method of preventing axle rotation as well as
a length of cable to limit travel incase of bungee failure. I chosse the
widen wheels and the 4130 straight axle more for looks than practical
reasons. The major concern I have is the snagging effect a straight axle
might have if landed in tall vegetation. I guess that is why flight
instructors don't like the "LOW and slow" slogan.
The threads on wheels keep occurring, I suppose, becuse other than
engine type and wing position they have the most effect on the appearance of
the aircraft.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Theodore Trevorrow <TJTREV(at)webtv.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels
Trevorrow)
>
> The thread on axle strength brings up some interesting questions. are
> you planing on brakes? If so you'll need to restrict axle rotation.
> I think the best ones i've seen add a square length of tubing over and
> welded to the round axle, just inboard of the wheel. By adding a yoke of
> square tubing or strap steel, axle rotation is restricted while allowing
> the axle to move up and down.
> Even without brakes, most guys restrict the up ward movement of the
> axle with a cable. so that In the event of a broken bungy you don't lose
> everything.
> What this does is change the bending moment from 56" to about 12"
> making a hard landing bend much more unlikely.
> If you land hard enough to bend an axle 1 1/2 x .090 or .120 you can
> bet you'll have more than a bent axle to worry about.
> If your going to weld a steel axle into a tube axle then that's the
> way I would test it. I think welding is going to change the strength
> characteristics in the weld zone.
> Maybe welding a plug into the tube that the axle could be threaded
> into would work.
> There's a ton of straight axle Piets out there. I've never heard of a
> bent axle. maybe their just not talking.
>
> Ted
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine choise |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
08:12:43 AM
If you haven't already, check out www.flycorvair.com and the
corvaircraft list server (owner-corvaircraft(at)listserv.usm.edu).
Simpler, direct drive, air cooled so no plumbing.
Mike
dkowell(at)cstone.net (David
Kowell) To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:
engine choise
ronics.com
08/27/2000 05:35 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Kowell)
I am building GN 1 and have been kicking engine choises around for
along time
now it is down to E81 or corvair anyone out there flying same
PLEASE let me
know about these two choises PLEASE thanks David Kowell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail surfaces |
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't ask about weight and balance.
> From: Theodore Trevorrow <TJTREV(at)webtv.net>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail surfaces
> Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 10:35 PM
>
Trevorrow)
>
> Mr. Pietenpol adjusted weight and balance by moving the wing . unless
> its way out. Then I'd start looking to solve the underlying problem.
> There was a new Piet at Brodhead this year built by a guy named Perkins
> I think. He welded his cabane braces instead of making them adjustable.
> Then!!! he realised he was out of trim. He solved the problem by moving
> the "A" forward 7" .It looked good . took away some of that pugnosed
> look that Piets have. If you go much futher forward they start looking
> like turboprops. By the way this plane was beautiful. some of the best
> workmanship I've ever seen.
> Gulf orange . A real prize winner.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question: Engine prices |
Chris: www.tradeaplane.com doesn't cost much to subscribe and search
online. Otherwise, www.barnstormers.com id free and has lots of ads.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Joe: It sounds like you may have some other problem. Did you take the
distributor gear out to make sure the "finger" on it is not broken and that
the contacts on the block are OK?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
Gene,
I remember looking at the plans for the tail feathers and being confused.
After I had them assembled I realized they weren't as hard as I thought.
To your questions:
#1 - I followed the plans. This worked very well.
#2 - Stabilizer ends, as well as elevator and rudder ends, have a shoulder on them.
Taper to fit the leading and trailing edges as necessary.
#3 - I did not taper the ends of the main beams. These were mitered 45 deg. along
with the end pieces. Center beam ends were tapered to fit the shoulder of
the end pieces.
And did you have a question about W & B???? (BIG SMILEY)
Greg Cardinal
>>> "Gene Rambo" 08/25 5:44 PM >>>
OK guys, I need help real fast!! I know there has been discussion about
the tail surfaces on here, but I have not seen a couple of specific
problems I ran into today. I started out to assemble the surfaces and have
some questions I cannot resolve.
#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil"
of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show the
center beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. I
believe, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have the
width of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2"
(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear
"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4"
(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense to
me. Am I right or wrong?
#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawing
suggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but it
does not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting the
plywood gussets on.
#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in the
stabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate with
the end pieces I asked about in #2 above??
This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I am
all set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. I
hope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
Regarding the mag coil that has an extra wire---
I do not know exactly what this particular coil is set up like but I do
know how coils work in general.
One of those two wires must be grounded for the coil to work. If the
high tension lead shows infinite resistance to the grounded part of the
coil (the metal bar) it is not an internally grounded secondary coil. It
depends upon a ground wire being fastened to the mag housing.
In other words, the electrons flowing from the high tension wire must be
able to complete their journey back to the coil through ground. If the
secondary ground wire is disconnected and taped off, they can't complete
thier journey. No spark.
The one that show a high resistance (but not infinite) between it and
the high tension lead is the ground, I would suspect.
Regards,
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail surfaces |
Lengthen the engine mount would be my first choice. Than if it still needs
some more balancing move the wing a little. If you do your math right you
won't have to move the wing at all. I have a GN-1 and it doesn't have the
option of moving the wing. So you get the mount right than everything will
balance.
>
>
>Ya know, I have only asked questions on here on two occasions . . .
>specific questions about how a particular piece is "supposed" to go on the
>Piet, and I have yet to get an answer to either one. We have beaten the
>wire wheel question to death a hundred times, as well as the weight and
>balance issue (should I move the wing or lengthen the engine mount?).
>Aren't there any BUILDERS on here who can answer a simple question?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail surfaces |
Maybe we missed it...please restate your question.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail surfaces
>
>AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I didn't ask about weight and balance.
>
>
>> From: Theodore Trevorrow <TJTREV(at)webtv.net>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail surfaces
>> Date: Sunday, August 27, 2000 10:35 PM
>>
>Trevorrow)
>>
>> Mr. Pietenpol adjusted weight and balance by moving the wing . unless
>> its way out. Then I'd start looking to solve the underlying problem.
>> There was a new Piet at Brodhead this year built by a guy named Perkins
>> I think. He welded his cabane braces instead of making them adjustable.
>> Then!!! he realised he was out of trim. He solved the problem by moving
>> the "A" forward 7" .It looked good . took away some of that pugnosed
>> look that Piets have. If you go much futher forward they start looking
>> like turboprops. By the way this plane was beautiful. some of the best
>> workmanship I've ever seen.
>> Gulf orange . A real prize winner.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
I talked to a guy using a EA81 Direct Drive. He was very happy with it.
750 FPM climb (estimated, no VSI)
60X32 Tennessee Wood prop
3000 RPM take off
2100RPM cruse = 70 mph
Weber carb from pinto
Honda Civic rad mounted between engine and firewall.
Engine mount same as ford +4 inches
Wing "as far back as it would go" to get good Weight Balance.
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: dkowell(at)cstone.net [mailto:dkowell(at)cstone.net]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine choise
I am building GN 1 and have been kicking engine choises around for along
time
now it is down to E81 or corvair anyone out there flying same PLEASE let
me
know about these two choises PLEASE thanks David Kowell
oil can wrote:
>
> I might just take you up on that Warren. First, maybe I'll contact
Buchanans
> again to see if they really have changed their minds about doing a/c
wheels.
>
> My hubs are done in steel, and bushed, ready to go, but lately I've been
> building a redrive on my lathe for ea-81 soob, so might just turn some
> hubs from alum and set bearings in them. Then send those off for spoke
> wheels instead of using the clunky old steel ones.
>
> Bob
>
> >From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buchanan's
> >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:56:22 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > Buchanan's is close to where I live. Let me know what you want done
> >and
> >I'll help if I can. They have done two wheels for me with the 9 gauge
> >stainless
> >spokes without any problem.
> >Warren
> >
> >oil can wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have contacted Buchanans about spoke wheels until I'm blue in the
face
> >!
> > >
> > > E-mail, letters, and even a letter addressed to the president of the
> > > company.
> > >
> > > I have never received even the politeness of a responce.
> > >
> > > I mentioned airplane in my first e-mail.
> > >
> > > Bob.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question: Engine prices |
Cris,
Is the engine still certified? I am rebuilding an 85 Continental at Leavens
bros. in Malton, Ont. The cost will be 14,000 Canadian certified. it's for
use in a Luscombe. Uncertified, that is If I uncertified the aircraft I can
get away with $6,000. uncertified. A good crankshaft that may only need
polishing is worth about $1,000. Canadian. A rebuilt cam is worth $1,000.
Canadian. So basically what I'm saying is that a core would be worth about
$3,000. and if it were to be rebuilt uncertified Add $6,000. for a total of
$9,000. Canadian or about $6,100. US. I wouldn't worry about the meager 50
hours on the engine. That's nothing. Consider it just broken in.
Regards,
Domenico Bellissimo
Toronto, Ont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question: Engine prices |
Try "Barnstormers.com" in the engine section. I'm planning to use a C-85
also.
Daryl
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question: Engine prices
>
> Does any one have an idea what the cost of a C-85 with less then 50 hr
> should be or where I can look to find out? Any FOR SALE web sites out
> there that you know about? I do not have access to trade a plane or I
> would have looked there. I am thinking of making an offer to buy one but
> I don't want to pay to much.
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
Gene,
I am not that experienced a builder but I did just complete the
horizontal stab. and am now working on the elevators. Here is how I did
it. ( BTW, I actually built two, one for my partner's plane and one for
mine. This method works great--by the time you are doing the second one
you really are starting to catch one. The second one goes much faster
and really turns out great! )
#1 You are right about this, except that the rear of the stab., the
'main beam' actually, on my plans shows a shoulder thickness of 5/8", not
3/4". Otherwise your statement matched what I thought.
#2 From looking at the plans, thinking about it, and having seen two
piets that were uncovered, one at Brodhead about 3 years ago, and the
Sampson (?) piet in the Pietenpol hangar at the Oshkosh museum, I decided
to make the outside edge of the stab. and the elevators, and of the top
and bottom of the rudder, out of the same stock as the stabilizer leading
edge. This worked fine. Here is how I joined the pieces.
I discovered on the second stab. that the best way to join the front two
corners was to mitre the joints. I got them drawn on my plywood jig and
then used a compass the old fashioned way to bisect the angles, then cut
the stock to those angles. Worked great. Once the stabilizer is
finished this will be sanded into a nice, round corner. Where the
'center beams' (3/4" X 1") mate with that leading edge stock at the end
of the stabilizer, you do have a 3/4" joint to the 1/2" shoulder on the
edge stock. I used my sander to taper the 'center beam'. Easy.
At the rear corners it was a little more complicated. I brought the
leading edge stock, which I was using for the ends of the stab., all the
way to the back edge. That meant that the piece of 'main beam' was then
two inches shorter. For the joint of 'leading edge' to 'main beam', the
main beam shoulder is thicker (5/8" to 1/2"). I tapered the main beam
shoulder by chiseling a nice, shallow slope into it. I first got it
all jigged up with good solid blocks to hold everything in place and the
proper shims underneath to keep everything lined up properly, then did
the chiseling. When the gusset is glued in place, the back ridge of the
'main beam' will end up sticking up. Just sand it down nice and flush.
(You will also have to fill in one little rectangle at each corner with a
tiny little piece of plywood. You'll see what I mean when you get
there.)
The angle braces which come down into the corners (which are 3/4" high,
will also have to be tapered to match the 1/2" depth of the "leading
edge" stock shoulder. Just do that on your sander. Easy.
I haven't yet done the elevators. I do have the four outside pieces cut
(mitred) to fit each other but they are not jigged up. Right now I'm
sheetrocking a bathroom, but hope to get to that next week.
I was a little reluctant to answer at first because of my relative
inexperience, but this seems to have worked well. I remember seeing that
fully assembled, bare-bones piet up at Brodhead a few years ago, and
remember looking at these parts. When they are all finished and sanded
and to final shape, they look beautiful. (BTW -- does anyone know whose
plane that was at Brodhead. I never did hear who had brought it, but I
spent a ton of time looking at it. ) If you ever get to OSH it is also
very wothwhile to spend some time looking at the bare piet in the hangar
there. That's a very useful exhibit.
If any of this is unclear, 'axe me again'.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
To John E. Fay:
Your description of how you did the horizontal stab was clear and helpful,
about the best description of how to do it that I've read! Since you have
already done the H-stab twice, then you have more experience at it than most
of the other folks on the list!
Now, dangit - you've made me want to go back and re-do my vert stab and
rudder. The method I used was to go by the plan measurement, and just sort
of use a rasp and make it all fit about eyeball right at the corners! Lot's
of gaps and spots that don't come together that way.
What really gets me is that I thought about doing it your way, and didn't -
oh well....
Good job - keep those posts coming!!
Gary Meadows
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http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
Gang,
I know what we should do! We should chip in a couple bucks each and buy a
complete set of Piet plans, and send them up to Norm Abrams. He could do a
show, maybe call it "New Yankee Airplane"! He could show us all how to do it
in 30 minutes, and using only $15,000 worth of tools!
Would be neat to see how he approached this ptoject!
Just a dumb thought - I'll shut up now, and go back to lurking......
Gary
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http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Cirrus engine |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
List:
The city museum ( I don't remember the exact name, but it was a pretty
good place) in Grand Rapids, Michigan has a cirrus engine on display,
where you can really get a good look at it. If anyone is curious and in
that area, it can easily be seen there.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
All he needs is carpenter's glue, nail gun and LOTS of cherry stain.
>From: "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:04:32 GMT
>
>
>
>Gang,
>
> I know what we should do! We should chip in a couple bucks each and buy
>a
>complete set of Piet plans, and send them up to Norm Abrams. He could do a
>show, maybe call it "New Yankee Airplane"! He could show us all how to do
>it
>in 30 minutes, and using only $15,000 worth of tools!
>
> Would be neat to see how he approached this ptoject!
>
>Just a dumb thought - I'll shut up now, and go back to lurking......
>
>Gary
>
>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
>http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesJboyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
In a message dated 8/25/00 4:41:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com
writes:
<<
#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil"
of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show the
center beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. I
believe, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have the
width of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2"
(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear
"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4"
(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense to
me. Am I right or wrong?
#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawing
suggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but it
does not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting the
plywood gussets on.
#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in the
stabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate with
the end pieces I asked about in #2 above??
This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I am
all set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. I
hope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.
July 31, 2000 - August 28, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-bq