Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-br
August 28, 2000 - October 01, 2000
>>
Hi,
For what its worth I built my tail surfaces just the way you described it in
#1.
I also cut down the center beam to match the thickness of the end pieces on
the stabilizer and elevatvors.
The end pieces do have a shoulder on them. The gussets fit in and match the
top surface of the elevator,etc. It looks good.
I also added a pieco of half-round to the leading edge of the stabilizer,
just so I didn't have to sand or rasp it round. Also did the same to the
trailing edge of the elevators. trailing edge of the rudder, and leading edge
of the fin.
Cheers,
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Cirrus engine |
Hi guys:
If you are interested in what my cirrus looks like I have some pics of it I
could send out to individual emails or perhaps Richard would post them on
his sight. Graham Hansen has told me the story of a Piet built in the 1930's
in the Vancouver area that flew with a Cirrus so mine wouldn't be the first.
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From: John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Cirrus engine
>
> List:
>
> The city museum ( I don't remember the exact name, but it was a pretty
> good place) in Grand Rapids, Michigan has a cirrus engine on display,
> where you can really get a good look at it. If anyone is curious and in
> that area, it can easily be seen there.
>
> John in Peoria
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Does anybody know of a supplier for an old style blade mag switch? I have
been checking the salvage dealers, so far no luck.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Hi, Richard. Check out eBay. They've got a section on aircraft parts and have
some
from time to time.
Jay Travis
Richard Navratil wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of a supplier for an old style blade mag switch? I have
> been checking the salvage dealers, so far no luck.
> Dick Navratil
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
07:56:35 AM
If anybody has one that they would lend out, I wanted to make a mold
of one to cast some new ones.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
"Richard Navratil"
To:
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Pietenpol-List:
mag switch
ronics.com
08/29/2000 12:13 AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list
Does anybody know of a supplier for an old style blade mag switch?
I have
been checking the salvage dealers, so far no luck.
Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
eB
Here is the link. They have 25 for sale, it is a Dutch auction, which means
all you have to do is say you want one. If more than 25 people try to get
one then the price starts to go up.
Scott Dufreche.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
John, yours was EXACTLY what I wanted to know, thank you very much. I
assume everyone else has struggled with the best way to mate all of the
different thicknesses so that the gussets lay flat and I want to know how
everyone solved it.
I do know that the main beam is 5/8, but I thought it would confuse things
if I said it in my original post.
Ya know, though, it would be much easier if the main beam WERE 3/4" wide,
then the gussets between it, a 3/4" end piece, and the 3/4" center beam
would all fit flush without any trimming, only the taper to the 1/2"
leading edge. Before you say it, I know, then the 3/16" ribs would stick up
a little on the main beam, but they already do on the leading edge because
the shoulder on it is only 1/8" high so what would it hurt, you'd just sand
it down like you do the front.
Like you , I considered using leading edge material on the ends, and I
still may. I have not cut anything yet that cannot be corrected. I am not
sure, though, that I want the stab to be that thin on the ends. Notice in
the rear view of the stab, the drawing shows the ends of the main beam
tapered pretty substantially in the last 4" or so. I am not sure of any
purpose for that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
What is a blade style mag switch? I have a couple of old-style Bendix
single ignition switches I would like to get rid of, Type EP, fits into a 3
1/8" hole and has large arm hinged at the top, off-on only.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
The mag switches I have look like the ones you point out on EBAY, except
mine do not have a key, but a polished lever the same size, and mine have
only off/on, single ignition. I have two extras to get rid of.
>
>
>
HREF="http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=422349005">
eB
switch
>
> Here is the link. They have 25 for sale, it is a Dutch auction, which
means
> all you have to do is say you want one. If more than 25 people try to
get
> one then the price starts to go up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Those of you with wood props....... |
Guys- my Falcon 72"-42P wood prop came with instructions to
torque the bolts to 220 inch-pounds +/- 25 lbs. for the size
bolt I was using. (it came w/ a chart for several prop bolt
sizes.)
ANYWAY, they also said if you live in a climate where the humidity
changes alot, (like Ohio does) that you should check the torque
every
100 hours. I did just that and at 90% of the bolts required a
FULL turn
or somewhat more to make my torque wrench click ! I re-cotter
pinned
the bolts and checked the prop tracking. Whew ! Doesn't hurt
to check em'.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Those of you with wood props....... |
Guys- my Falcon 72"-42P wood prop came with instructions to
torque the bolts to 220 inch-pounds..
CORRECTION, that should read 200 inch-lbs.
MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
you might check he mag switches in ACS. if I remember, the bottom one listed has
the
ket with a pointer type handle to simulate the old mag switches.
JoeC
Richard Navratil wrote:
>
> Does anybody know of a supplier for an old style blade mag switch? I have
> been checking the salvage dealers, so far no luck.
> Dick Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Masters, Donald" <donald.masters(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'" |
un-subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: Those of you with wood props....... |
Mike,
Wow! That couldn't be foot-lbs, could it? I don't know anything about
torque values for attaching propellers - is 200 inch-lbs common?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
P.S. The 90 horse Franklin I'm purchasing comes with a Falcon prop, so I'm
interested.
>
> Guys- my Falcon 72"-42P wood prop came with instructions to
> torque the bolts to 220 inch-pounds..
>
> CORRECTION, that should read 200 inch-lbs.
> MC
>
>
>
>
>
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Those of you with wood props....... |
I check my prop bolts twice a year, independent of the
hours flown (end of winter (Feb-March) and end of
raining season (October-November)).
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
>
> Guys- my Falcon 72"-42P wood prop came with
> instructions to
> torque the bolts to 220 inch-pounds..
>
> CORRECTION, that should read 200 inch-lbs.
> MC
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <johnh(at)kencook.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Those of you with wood props....... |
Yes the 200 inch-lbs is correct. Remember that a wood prop is much softer
than a metal prop. To apply the same torque values to a wood prop as
compared to a metal prop would crush the wood fiber. Properly applied torque
will just make a slight indentation in the wood face.
One other thing about wooden props. When your airplane is going to sit for
some time, try to position the propeller horizontally. Minute movements of
moisture and sap when positioned vertically over a long period of time can
lead to a slight out-of-balance condition. I have actually seen this happen
on a Sensenich and a Lewis. The Sensenich was on a Champ and stored
vertically for a year. The Lewis was in my living room as a great
conversation piece. I learned my lesson and now the Lewis hangs above my
couch in a horizontal position.
TakeCare,
-john-
>
> I check my prop bolts twice a year, independent of the
> hours flown (end of winter (Feb-March) and end of
> raining season (October-November)).
>
> >
> > Guys- my Falcon 72"-42P wood prop came with
> > instructions to
> > torque the bolts to 220 inch-pounds..
> >
> > CORRECTION, that should read 200 inch-lbs.
> > MC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: metal shrinker |
We plan on using .020 2024T-3 on our comming. Zinc chromate is OK for
aluminum and has been the old standby for years, but there are better
products out there. Zinc chromate is easily scratched in handling whereas
these new epoxy primers stand up better. We're going to use an epoxy
primer when we get that far, soon, I hope.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
Gene,
We built our tail exactly according to the plans using the specified
thicknesses and laying the spar flat. We did not taper the main spar,
but I wish we had. The wood on the ends and tips used was Sitka spruce
except fot the top of the rudder where we used a small block of pine from
a 2X4 ( we did have a thick enough piece of spruce left over at the
time).
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Those of you with wood props....... |
Mark,
200 Inch pounds is normal. With metal prop using 3/8" bolts (9/16
wrench) the torque would be 25 ft. pounds which isn't much more than
that.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Antique mag switch |
All,
I took a look at the picture of the antique mag switch listed on e-bay, but
I'm a little confused. The selector has positions for off, battery, mag and
both. So, how do you check the right and left mag independent of each
other, as with modern switches? Or, maybe you don't?
Mark Boynton
Gilbert, AZ
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
Please ignore.
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Model A Fuel Consumption |
Can someone throw some specs at me (for AirCamper.org) on the Model A's
fuel consumption at various RPMs? What is the recommended gas to use?
Thanks and cheers,
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
John and Bob, thank you. The second lead does indeed need to be connected
to ground. (The Aircraft Spruce Catalog said it had two points leads so
because my old coil had only one lead, I thought the short one was a spare
for a different application and taped it off . I just finished connecting
it to ground, timed it the way Gene said, popped it in the Piet, timed it to
match the other mag a 28 BTDC and Bingo, Problem Solved. Good education.
Thanks, all.
By the way, I also have a C-85, which is a nice engine for the Piet for
those that don't go with the Ford A. It is not certified (I had a mechanic
sell it to me piece by piece and help me put it together which was a good
experience) and doesn't have to be in the US anyway. I used a blueprint for
a Piet engine mount for the small Continentals that I believe Bernie or one
of his buddies drew up, so I guess he must have approved of the choice!!!!
I'm not sure where it is since its been 14 years or so since I built it, but
I might be able to find it if someone needed a copy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail surfaces |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
> Notice in
> the rear view of the stab, the drawing shows the ends of the main
> beam
> tapered pretty substantially in the last 4" or so. I am not sure of
> any
> purpose for that.
>
I remember noticing that, and my assumption was that it was illustrating
the tapering down to the thickness to match the leading edge stock size
being used for the outside edge of the stabilizer.
John in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | call for pictures |
I am once again re-organizing www.AirCamper.org, starting this time
with the image library (making it keyword-searchable). Some pictures
not in there that would be great to have are:
1. Pictures from piets in flight (as in from the 'pits, looking
forward, backward, etc.)
2. Close-ups of engine mods (all flavors)
3. Pictures of ALL OF YOU and your Piets. I REALLY WANT THIS ONE! I
would love to put together a who's-who with pics.
If you send any images, please include as much relevant info as you
can.
That's it. Thanks to all those who have already contributed so much!
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antique mag switch |
Mark, that switch is for a Jacobs engine, which has one magneto and a
battery/distributor system for the dual ignition, so you check the battery,
mag, and both.
----------
> From: mboynton(at)excite.com(InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with
ESMTPfor;
> To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Antique mag switch
> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 1:25 PM
>
vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP for
;
>
> All,
>
> I took a look at the picture of the antique mag switch listed on e-bay,
but
> I'm a little confused. The selector has positions for off, battery, mag
and
> both. So, how do you check the right and left mag independent of each
> other, as with modern switches? Or, maybe you don't?
>
> Mark Boynton
> Gilbert, AZ
>
>
> Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <rambog(at)erols.com> |
Joe, I am vindicated in my original response where I said I thought it was
a ground wire. Thanks!
----------
> From: Joseph Kohler <kohler(at)Dellnet.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mags
> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:49 PM
>
>
> John and Bob, thank you. The second lead does indeed need to be
connected
> to ground. (The Aircraft Spruce Catalog said it had two points leads so
> because my old coil had only one lead, I thought the short one was a
spare
> for a different application and taped it off . I just finished
connecting
> it to ground, timed it the way Gene said, popped it in the Piet, timed it
to
> match the other mag a 28 BTDC and Bingo, Problem Solved. Good education.
> Thanks, all.
>
> By the way, I also have a C-85, which is a nice engine for the Piet for
> those that don't go with the Ford A. It is not certified (I had a
mechanic
> sell it to me piece by piece and help me put it together which was a good
> experience) and doesn't have to be in the US anyway. I used a blueprint
for
> a Piet engine mount for the small Continentals that I believe Bernie or
one
> of his buddies drew up, so I guess he must have approved of the
choice!!!!
> I'm not sure where it is since its been 14 years or so since I built it,
but
> I might be able to find it if someone needed a copy.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mboynton(at)excite.com |
for" ;
| Subject: | Re: Antique mag switch |
Gene,
Thanks for the reply. That's what I like about this list - what a resource.
Mark
>
> Mark, that switch is for a Jacobs engine, which has one magneto and a
> battery/distributor system for the dual ignition, so you check the
battery,
> mag, and both.
>
> ----------
> > From: mboynton(at)excite.com(InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with
> ESMTPfor;
> > To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Antique mag switch
> > Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 1:25 PM
> >
> vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP for
> ;
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I took a look at the picture of the antique mag switch listed on e-bay,
> but
> > I'm a little confused. The selector has positions for off, battery,
mag
> and
> > both. So, how do you check the right and left mag independent of each
> > other, as with modern switches? Or, maybe you don't?
> >
> > Mark Boynton
> > Gilbert, AZ
> >
> >
> > Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Piet EAA Meeting St Pete FLorida |
Anyone interested in attending an EAA meeting this friday evening, Sept 1st,
7:30pm at Albert Whitted Airport, (Albert Whitted Flying Club) St Petersburg
FL. Y'all are welcome. George Read, Piet builder will fly his in for the
meeting. We hope to have a good turnout for discussion and to check out
George's Piet. He's been building things for years. He built a Breezy and
flew it for years around the Tampa Bay area. Y'all come on down.
Daryl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 08/28/00 |
please unsubscribe me
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
Frank Pavliga has an old switch, if he'll lend it to you. At one time he was
selling them.
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Thank you and everyone else for all the discussion on mag switches. Between
ACS and ebay I will have what I need.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: <Teal38(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: mag switch
>
>
HREF="http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=422349005">
eB
switch
>
> Here is the link. They have 25 for sale, it is a Dutch auction, which
means
> all you have to do is say you want one. If more than 25 people try to get
> one then the price starts to go up.
>
> Scott Dufreche.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Malley <jgmalley(at)home.com> |
javier cruz wrote:
>
>
> Hello
> I live in Mexico City and i want to build a Pietenpol,
> but the alttitud here that don't let me sleep is the
> alttitud, i have a Corvair engine 1961 and i don't
> know if is enought for the plane, please help me with
> that. thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Microcar2(at)aol.com |
I was recently reading about Mark Anderson and his work with a model T
engine in the Pietenpol website. I would very much like to contact him about
this subject. He is not listed in the e-mail addresses. Anyone know his
email address, phone?
thanks
Microcar2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Clipped wing Piet? |
Has anyone ever shortened the Piet's wing? I know this is a really dumb
reason to ask, but if I shorten my piet's wing by 4 inches or so, I'll
be able to fully assemble the plane in my shop (it's 4" too long to fit
in with the door closed). I realize it's only going to be in the shop
like that while I do the final assembly before covering, and after that
trailered to the Biddeford Airport, but it would still be nice to fit
it.
Richard
p.s. Thanks to those that submitted new pictures!
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
Richard,
If you clipepd your wings a touch, maybe you could add endplates or some
sort of droop tips to your wings to make up for it? You're not talking that
much wing, could be you could lop it off and not really miss it. Just keep
it light!
Gary
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
I looked at a Piet three years ago a guy in Missouri built. I walked around
it and we chatted. I couldn't get over the feeling something didn't look
right with it but I wasn't sure. I didn't want to insult the guy so I
didn't ask for a long time. Then I couldn't take it any longer I told him
that I thought there was something different about his Piet but I wasn't
quit sure what it was. He told me that several people had said the same
thing. It turned out to be his wings were clipped 12" on each wing tip.
His paint scheme also made the wings look even shorter. I asked why he did
it, if it was for performance at cruise. He said,'Oh no, it was his
performance in the shop with a garage door open in the middle of winter.'
Apparently he had built another airplane and had already ran into the
problem of wingspan. He said he didn't like having to work on the aircraft
in winter with the door open and that was what he had to do if he left the
wing the same length. I asked him why he just didn't build the three piece
wing and he said from his prior experience, he learned that he would still
have the wings mounted on the aircraft at full span for up to six months
before he transported to the airport. Or he would have to waste time
assembling and disassembling the wings when he worked on the airplane. So
he clipped the wings. He said he didn't think it made much difference but
he had only flown one other Piet and it had a 'A' engine on it and he had a
C-65 so there wasn't much to compare.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet?
>
> Has anyone ever shortened the Piet's wing? I know this is a really dumb
> reason to ask, but if I shorten my piet's wing by 4 inches or so, I'll
> be able to fully assemble the plane in my shop (it's 4" too long to fit
> in with the door closed). I realize it's only going to be in the shop
> like that while I do the final assembly before covering, and after that
> trailered to the Biddeford Airport, but it would still be nice to fit
> it.
>
> Richard
>
> p.s. Thanks to those that submitted new pictures!
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
Thanks! Come to think of it, I bet 4" wont do squat to the performance.
I've been building very light and keeping very simple all along, so I'm
not too worried. Why, just today I decided against the humidore and cup
holder I was going to put in. :)
Richard
--- Greg Yotz wrote:
>
> I looked at a Piet three years ago a guy in Missouri built. I walked
> around
> it and we chatted. I couldn't get over the feeling something didn't
> look
> right with it but I wasn't sure. I didn't want to insult the guy so
> I
> didn't ask for a long time. Then I couldn't take it any longer I
> told him
> that I thought there was something different about his Piet but I
> wasn't
> quit sure what it was. He told me that several people had said the
> same
> thing. It turned out to be his wings were clipped 12" on each wing
> tip.
> His paint scheme also made the wings look even shorter. I asked why
> he did
> it, if it was for performance at cruise. He said,'Oh no, it was his
> performance in the shop with a garage door open in the middle of
> winter.'
> Apparently he had built another airplane and had already ran into the
> problem of wingspan. He said he didn't like having to work on the
> aircraft
> in winter with the door open and that was what he had to do if he
> left the
> wing the same length. I asked him why he just didn't build the three
> piece
> wing and he said from his prior experience, he learned that he would
> still
> have the wings mounted on the aircraft at full span for up to six
> months
> before he transported to the airport. Or he would have to waste time
> assembling and disassembling the wings when he worked on the
> airplane. So
> he clipped the wings. He said he didn't think it made much
> difference but
> he had only flown one other Piet and it had a 'A' engine on it and he
> had a
> C-65 so there wasn't much to compare.
>
> Greg
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 8:14 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clipped wing Piet?
>
>
>
> >
> > Has anyone ever shortened the Piet's wing? I know this is a really
> dumb
> > reason to ask, but if I shorten my piet's wing by 4 inches or so,
> I'll
> > be able to fully assemble the plane in my shop (it's 4" too long to
> fit
> > in with the door closed). I realize it's only going to be in the
> shop
> > like that while I do the final assembly before covering, and after
> that
> > trailered to the Biddeford Airport, but it would still be nice to
> fit
> > it.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > p.s. Thanks to those that submitted new pictures!
> >
> > =====
> > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > My building progress:
> > http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
In a message dated 8/31/2000 10:45:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< I bet 4" wont do squat to the performance. >>
but don't build Piet in bathroom, climb performance falls off big time LOL
John D (it's the heat)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
I built mine in a shoebox and carry it to and from the airport in a Yugo.
;-)
Greg
Actually if I ever get this airplane covered and flying I'll be lighter than
air....
And my spirits will have great climb performance.
>
> << I bet 4" wont do squat to the performance. >>
>
> but don't build Piet in bathroom, climb performance falls off big time
LOL
>
> John D (it's the heat)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
Greg Yotz wrote:
>
> I built mine in a shoebox and carry it to and from the airport in a Yugo.
> ;-)
>
Hey, Greg- don't laugh TOO much at Yugos; some of us (like me) are driving them,
so we can put our discresionary income into aircraft instead of luxury cars!!!
Besides, the Yugo and the Piet have a lot in common. They're both very sturdy,
very straightforward designs that focus on transporting a couple of people from
point A to point B with a minimum of frills and a distinctive style (after all,
you don't see too many examples of either going the other way, or parked at the
airport when you get there). Both are economical to operate and maintian. Both
take a person who is willing to do a lot of tinkering to keep them going and IF
they are taken care of properly, both can provide many years of solid, reliable
transportation to their owners. (And no, I'm not planning on building the
world's first Yugo-powered Piet- the motors rev much too high in a Yugo...
maybe.)
Jay Travis
Air Camper AND Yugo Owner :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clipped wing Piet? |
I wasn't poking at anyone with the Yugo thing... If I had a Yugo, it
probably would be without an engine, because I would have it on a test stand
swinging a prop just to see how it goes....
I've got 5 kids with three of them teenagers with drivers licenses. Our
house looks like a used car lot. And there ain't a single one that's brand
new.. I also found that having airplanes worked much better when I OWNED
vehicles instead of the bank owning them and me sending my whole paycheck to
the bank every week. I also found it easier for my kids to drive vehicles
if I built airplanes instead of buying them... I find it allot easier to
buy wood with just what I save in interest on a single vehicle each month.
Also, all of my children know how to change oil and both my sons have had
engine, transmission and drivetrain rebuilding experience now. One son is a
little more excited about airplanes and can't wait to rebuild the Lycoming
O-145-B2 we have for the Piet now.
Greg - Piet owner, Dodge, Chevy(2), Ford(2), Nissan, Toyota(2), Mazda ....
P.S. I'm selling a truck we don't use around the farm anymore to buy my
cloth for covering... Found out my wife couldn't spend money if it was
sitting in the driveway but she could if I put it in the bank waiting for
parts... Not saying she doesn't have a right to our money, she just has
different priorities, is all... Seems like ever time I say, "I'm buying
some wood." She thinks she's getting furniture or new trim. Which I throw
in once in awhile to justify woodworking tools....
>
> Hey, Greg- don't laugh TOO much at Yugos; some of us (like me) are driving
them,
> so we can put our discresionary income into aircraft instead of luxury
cars!!!
> Besides, the Yugo and the Piet have a lot in common. They're both very
sturdy,
> very straightforward designs that focus on transporting a couple of people
from
> point A to point B with a minimum of frills and a distinctive style (after
all,
> you don't see too many examples of either going the other way, or parked
at the
> airport when you get there). Both are economical to operate and maintian.
Both
> take a person who is willing to do a lot of tinkering to keep them going
and IF
> they are taken care of properly, both can provide many years of solid,
reliable
> transportation to their owners. (And no, I'm not planning on building the
> world's first Yugo-powered Piet- the motors rev much too high in a Yugo...
> maybe.)
>
> Jay Travis
> Air Camper AND Yugo Owner :-)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | 4" don't mean squat |
On the other hand, there was discussion in the BAPNews once on how a
center section cut out had a drastic effect on performance of the Piet.
Could a 4" clip have the same effect? I don"t recall, but I would
imagine it was a Ford Piet. Probably a combination of the cut out and
the radiator location, the radiator blocking air flow over the center
section. I'm wanting to use a cut out, so am thinking about an
underslung rad. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4" don't mean squat |
The cutout problem was not just loss of lift area but induced drag. No
induced drag if you just shorten wings. The test aircraft, if I remember
correctly was also on the heavy side. Always remember..."Build light and
fly right..."
Greg
>
> On the other hand, there was discussion in the BAPNews once on how a
> center section cut out had a drastic effect on performance of the Piet.
> Could a 4" clip have the same effect? I don"t recall, but I would
> imagine it was a Ford Piet. Probably a combination of the cut out and
> the radiator location, the radiator blocking air flow over the center
> section. I'm wanting to use a cut out, so am thinking about an
> underslung rad. Leon S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
I picked up my first order of wood today from Tampa Air Cargo. I ordered it
on Aug 5th from Western Aircraft Supplies in Calgary. Mr Jean Peters did a
great job putting it together for shipping. All taped and marked with name
or numbers. $63.49 (US) shipping. I only ordered the fuselage and tail
section wood so far. Now I can get going and start bugging you guys about
how to do everything.
Daryl Bortel
St Petersburg FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4" don't mean squat |
I like the idea of the droop tips. Any thoughts on how it should be
designed?
--- Greg Yotz wrote:
>
> The cutout problem was not just loss of lift area but induced drag.
> No
> induced drag if you just shorten wings. The test aircraft, if I
> remember
> correctly was also on the heavy side. Always remember..."Build light
> and
> fly right..."
>
> Greg
>
> >
> > On the other hand, there was discussion in the BAPNews once on how
> a
> > center section cut out had a drastic effect on performance of the
> Piet.
> > Could a 4" clip have the same effect? I don"t recall, but I would
> > imagine it was a Ford Piet. Probably a combination of the cut out
> and
> > the radiator location, the radiator blocking air flow over the
> center
> > section. I'm wanting to use a cut out, so am thinking about an
> > underslung rad. Leon S.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Microcar2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-Mark Anderson |
Hi, I am looking for Mark Anderson's e-mail address or phone number to
discuss with him his Model T powered project.
thanks
Microcar2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Clipped wing Piet |
Richard,
If the door to your shop swings down then measure where
the wing tip will protrude and cut out the offending area on the
door and build a box extension on the door to clear the wing.
If the door to your shop rolls down vertically then build an
extension to the shop the full opening of the door area and
have it extend out 12 more inches. Add 36" door way to gain
admittance to the shop.
But then again, a 4" shorter wing would give:
Less frontal area
Less drag
Less weight
And therefore give:
Higher cruise speed
Higher roll rate
Higher stall speed
All of which would only be noticeable in the eye of the builder.
Reduce each wing tip by 2" and it should yield another one of
a kind Piet that should work just fine.
Ah, decisions, decisions...
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walter Allen" <overalles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4" don't mean squat |
Leon:
I am interested in the underslung radiator idea. I am ready ti install my
radiator soon I hope. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Walter
>From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 4" don't mean squat
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:48:10 -0500
>
>
>The cutout problem was not just loss of lift area but induced drag. No
>induced drag if you just shorten wings. The test aircraft, if I remember
>correctly was also on the heavy side. Always remember..."Build light and
>fly right..."
>
>Greg
>
> >
> > On the other hand, there was discussion in the BAPNews once on how a
> > center section cut out had a drastic effect on performance of the Piet.
> > Could a 4" clip have the same effect? I don"t recall, but I would
> > imagine it was a Ford Piet. Probably a combination of the cut out and
> > the radiator location, the radiator blocking air flow over the center
> > section. I'm wanting to use a cut out, so am thinking about an
> > underslung rad. Leon S.
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alum Lift Struts |
I need to talk to all about aluminum lift struts. Where to obtain, size,
types of fittings at both ends and any other help you may have. Thanks
Corky in HOT La ( 108 yesterday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alum Lift Struts |
Check out:
http://www.sky-tek.com
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I need to talk to all about aluminum lift struts. Where to obtain, size,
> types of fittings at both ends and any other help you may have. Thanks
> Corky in HOT La ( 108 yesterday)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Antique mag switch |
Mark,
This switch was used on an airplane with a Jacobs radial engine. It had
dual ignition as like everything else but it had a magneto firing one set
of plugs and an automotive type battery ignition system for the second
set of plugs. The two ignition systems were tested the same way
individual magnetos are checked.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
My spars and other wing material arrived today from Jean Peters.
However, the spars are 3/4", not 1" as per the plans. My ribs are all
sized for 1" spars. I have yet to hear back from him about it, but has
anyone else used a 3/4" spar and [1/4" fillers?] on their wing? Am I
missing a point somewhere?
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
Group,
Awhile back I received a letter from an individual in Chicago who was
starting the newsletter over again, however my wife has cleaned the house
since and the letter has disappeared. Does anyone out there have the
information on who to contact for this? I really enjoyed those
newsletters and got a lot of good information out of them.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
In regard to the message from the fellow that received 3/4" spars , I've
heard before that they are OK ( I used 3/4" Doug Fir), but since the ribs
are already made with a space for 1" spars, rather than block out the ribs,
why not glue a piece of 1/4" by 3/4" spruce to the top and bottom of one
side of each spar to create a I beam effect without routing. That would
give most of the strength of 1" spars with a little less weight and it would
probably be easier than blocking all the individual ribs. You might also
want to block out at the lift strut attach points and the wing attach points
to keep the attachments in accordance with the plans. Joe Kohler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
That's a good idea, except I would glue 1" X 1/8" to both sides. It's really
only the top and bottom inch that gives all of the strength in an "I-beam"
spar.
regards,
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Microcar2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:MARK ANDERSON |
I am still trying to contact Mark Anderson, article about him on the
Pietenpol website.
Does anyone know where he lives?
thanks
Gerron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Michael Brusilow"
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
(at)matronics.com> <"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Richard DeCosta
>
Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/4" spars
>
>
>>
>>My spars and other wing material arrived today from Jean Peters.
>>However, the spars are 3/4", not 1" as per the plans. My ribs are all
>>sized for 1" spars. I have yet to hear back from him about it, but has
>>anyone else used a 3/4" spar and [1/4" fillers?] on their wing? Am I
>>missing a point somewhere?
>>
>
>
>Hey Dick:
>You aint missing much. My Piet & Ed Snyders' two Piets & his Sky Scout have
>3/4 in spars. We just put 1/4 X 1/2 in inserts on the back side of the spar
>at ech rib location. Don't sweat it. it works.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mb-albany(at)att.net |
---------------------- Forwarded Message: ---------------------
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: 3/4" spars
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Brusilow <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
(at)matronics.com> <"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Richard DeCosta
>
Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/4" spars
>
>
>>
>>My spars and other wing material arrived today from Jean Peters.
>>However, the spars are 3/4", not 1" as per the plans. My ribs are all
>>sized for 1" spars. I have yet to hear back from him about it, but has
>>anyone else used a 3/4" spar and [1/4" fillers?] on their wing? Am I
>>missing a point somewhere?
>>
>
>
>Hey Dick:
>You aint missing much. My Piet & Ed Snyders' two Piets & his Sky Scout have
>3/4 in spars. We just put 1/4 X 1/2 in inserts on the back side of the spar
>at ech rib location. Don't sweat it. it works.
>
>Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flite407(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Turnbuckles and such |
Hey Guys
Does anyone know the best place to get turnbuckles, cable and related parts
for controls. Whats better 3/32 or 1/8 cable, stainless or galvanized. At the
prices I've been seeing just the turnbuckles would cost as much as the wood
for my fuse. If thats the case than so be it, if anyone knows anything better
that would be great. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? |
I have finished assembly of tail feathers and have six ribs to go.
I'm working in my garage with limited space. I had planned to start the
fuse next but that would force my car to be outside in the cold Champaign,
IL winter. Question: Can I build the wing center section next without the
fuse to reference or mate parts? Any advice would be appreciated.
Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL
email: pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? |
"Michael Brusilow"
--
>
. Question: Can I build the wing center section next without the
>fuse to reference or mate parts? Any advice would be appreciated.
>Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL
>email: pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com
>
>
I don't see any reasons you can't.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
"Michael Brusilow" ,
"David Boyd"
| Subject: | Re: ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? Should be ok..... |
Me Too. I think you should be able to build it right up from the plans and
have it fit just fine. You may want to wait until your fuselage is done to
build the cabane struts. That way you can fit your struts and the end
fittings to the brackets .
Brings me to another question (actually two.)
1) My Grega plans call for plywood ribs for the center section. The
chord is 60 " but as you all know it costs a fortune to have stuff trucked
(24" by 48" is largest that UPS will ship. ) So therefore the chord (ie the
rib) is longer than the typical 2 x 4 foot plywood I have. on hand. Do you
folks see any problem with a scarfed center section rib (actually 4 of
them). How about making it REAL easy. How about just two scabbed ply
gussetts on either side of the joined pieces that make up the rib?
2) I am starting the final varnish and covering for my tail group (and
hopefully the fuse if I dont make to big of a mess). I am going over the
contact areas (where fabric will be glued) with the Polyfiber 2-part epoxy
EV-400. The can says full curing time is 7 days. Has any body used this
varnish? How long did you cure the pieces before fabric. It's brutally hot
and humid here in S. Georgia/ N. Florida (sorry to whine Texans, ya'll have
it worse than we do), Any chance speeding the process up by allowing curing
in air conditined space?
Thanks, Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and tailfeathers done-next??
>
>
> --
>
>
> >
> . Question: Can I build the wing center section next without the
> >fuse to reference or mate parts? Any advice would be appreciated.
> >Dave Boyd, Champaign, IL
> >email: pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com
> >
> >
> I don't see any reasons you can't.
>
> Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? Should be ok..... |
"Richard Gillespie"
Bert,
One quarter inch marine ply can usually be obtained locally. I'm building a
GN-1 also in Ft. Myers.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? Should be ok..... |
In a message dated 09/02/2000 6:58:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< Any chance speeding the process up by allowing curing
in air conditined space?
Thanks, Bert
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ribs and tailfeathers done-next?? Should be ok..... |
In a message dated 09/02/2000 6:58:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
bconoly(at)surfsouth.com writes:
<< Any chance speeding the process up by allowing curing
in air conditined space?
Thanks, Bert
>>
Bert...Outside temp in S.E. Alabama today was over 90....humidity was 80.
You've seen my air conditioned shop...It was 77 and 60 respectively inside. I
just used some retarder and went ahead with my prime coats....worked out
fine. I'm not a scientist so can't explain why, but don't see why it wouldn't
work the same for curing your epoxy varnish. Don H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daryl Bortel" <dbortel1(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
"Daryl Bortel"
WOW!!! T-88 is some strong stuff, fumes anyway. I'm working in an attached
garage and have managed to have the fumes in the entire house. Any
suggestions?? I'm using fans and have the garage door open when I'm gluing
but I guess when the glue starts to set-up, the chemical reaction puts out
the fumes. I've only started my Piet so I've got a long time to go.
Daryl Bortel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Hi, Daryl.
This may not help much, but you said you have fans blowing by the door- do you
also
have a window across from the door open, to set up a cross flow? If you can do
that, then leave the door open and open the window, then put the fan by the window
pulling air inside on high speed and pointing across the plane and out the open
garage door. Essentially, you're using Bernoulli's principle to help the
ventilation in your garage. See if that helps. Also, can you set up some tarps,
etc. to create the same effect as a temporary paint booth? You'd need the same
basic ventilation capabilites for glue fumes that you would for paint fumes, I
would think. Good luck with it.
Jay Travis
Daryl Bortel wrote:
>
> WOW!!! T-88 is some strong stuff, fumes anyway. I'm working in an attached
> garage and have managed to have the fumes in the entire house. Any
> suggestions?? I'm using fans and have the garage door open when I'm gluing
> but I guess when the glue starts to set-up, the chemical reaction puts out
> the fumes. I've only started my Piet so I've got a long time to go.
>
> Daryl Bortel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Kohler" <kohler(at)Dellnet.com> |
I obtained mine at Coastal Supply, a building lumber yard in Manchester, NH
about 12 years ago. My local lumber yard also had some, just not as many to
pick thru to find good grain patterns, although most of it is pretty nice.
I would think it would be available at most good lumber yards. It is good
quality stuff. One caution, however. Though it an "approved" wood, and
quite a bit stronger than Sitka spruce, it is also quite a bit heavier. I
believe it adds about 20 pounds to the weight of the plane if my memory and
math are correct. Because so much of the wood in a piet is aft of the CG,
using fir everwhere, as I did, makes the plane more tail heavy than it
already tends to be. I had to put a starter and generator on my C-85,
extend the nose 4", and tilt the carbanes back a lot to get the CG in range.
You may have a very strong Piet, but it won't be the lightest one in the
stable. Mine does fly hands off, however. If I were to do it again I would
make the spars and fuse longerons from Fir cause it is strong and
inexpensive, but make the tail feathers, the diagonal braces, and the wing
ribs from Spruce or some other lighter wood since they are way strong enough
anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Hi.
Who's tried putting the old style Lycoming 0-145-B2
motor from a J-3 Cub into a Piet? Anything in
particular to watch out for?
Jay Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"walter evans"
I remember seeing included in a letter, that someone was selling a piet.
Can't seem to find it in the listing.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
"Greg Cardinal"
You can get good prices at:
B & B Aircraft Supplies
31905 W. 175th St.
Gardner Municipal Airport
Gardner, KS 66030
Ph. (913) 884-5930
Fax(913) 884-6533
(Address and phone # current as of March 1998)
He gets surplus so his stock is erratic. Also, Aircraft Spruce claims they will
"not be undersold" so they may match prices.
Dillsburg has good prices on steel but cable and hardware are priced a little higher
than elsewhere.
We're using 3/32 for ailerons and empennage bracing, 1/8 everywhere else. Using
stainless on all exposed cabling for cosmetic reasons, galvanized elsewhere.
If you have access to a lathe you can turn your own turnbuckles.
We did this for the empennage bracing. Tested to destruction at
more than 1500 pounds.
Greg Cardinal
>>> 09/02 7:37 AM >>>
Hey Guys
Does anyone know the best place to get turnbuckles, cable and related parts
for controls. Whats better 3/32 or 1/8 cable, stainless or galvanized. At the
prices I've been seeing just the turnbuckles would cost as much as the wood
for my fuse. If thats the case than so be it, if anyone knows anything better
that would be great. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Gary
New Orleans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
Hi,
Someone has available Dillisburg's address and phone
number? e-mail?
Saludos
Gary Gower
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Turnbuckles and such |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Speaking of turn buckles, How do you know which ones to buy? ie. what
strength rating, size , type ect.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DaveM" <dmagaw(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
Chris:
If you figure out what to buy, a good place to look first is Faeth Aircraft
parts in Sacramento on Bradshaw. You may already know about this, but if
you don't, its a good place to buy parts at fairly reasonable prices. He
has turnbuckes and ends of various types and sizes.
Dave Magaw
(The guy you talk to at EAA 52 meetings, building tailwind.)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles and such
>
> Speaking of turn buckles, How do you know which ones to buy? ie. what
> strength rating, size , type ect.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks aircraft have good sections on turnbuckles in their
catalogs. The Piet (Improved Air camper) uses some 1/8 cable (follow the
plans) and lots of 3/32 cable. The two piets in the museum at Oshkosh have
1/16 for the tail flying wires. Use 3/32 here if you don't like the 1/16. I
use the turnbuckles with 10-32 threads on my airplanes for both the 3/32 and
the 1/8 cable. We (Chuck Gantzer and I) are using turnbuckles with 8-32
threads for the 1/16 tail wires on the current project. The short length
turnbuckles are the lightest and look nice.
Doug Bryant
Wichita, Ks
Don't forget the PIET fly in. It will be held in Benton, Ks Sept 9, 00
(Benton is a small town just north of Wichita)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Hopkins" <hopkinsp(at)southwestern.edu> |
"Phil Hopkins"
Hello all,
Hokay, I've looked all over, and I'm not finding much info on costs. I know most
of you probably know all this stuff, but I'm a first time builder, and I'm
trying to get a fix on just how much moolah I'm gonna wind up laying out for this
admittedly priceless airplane. :-}
Would anyone mind offering some ballpark figures for say, wood :-} and the various
items that have to go somewhere on the plane like wheels and brakes, cowl,
gas tanks, landing gear, prop, etc.? I know the old saw that someone built
a Piet for $3500 (or $1500 or $2500....), but I'm hoping to get a little input
on more typical total costs.
Thanks
Phil Hopkins
________________________________________________________________________________
I built my first improved air camper for under $3000. It's model A powered.
It can be done for low cost if you are good at shoping and scrounging and if
you the interest in doing such. You can spend as much as you want also.
I'll give you an idea how I did my first one:
Spars - homemade from hand picked vertical grain 3/4 in fir from a local
lumber wholesaler (three piece wing)
Longerons- made from 2x8 fir from same supplier
Tank- fiber glass- same shape as plans- model A cap and filler neck and all.
Am very pleased with this tank- have a mold if you want to borrow it.
Wheels- spoke type with 5 /2 in wide homemade hubs. hard to make -do not
recommend- on second aircraft used 6 in good year wheels -machined off the
brake holders- installed 8.00 x 6 four ply tires from wicks- light and
inexpensive.
more later, have to run
Doug Bryant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
mine is going to run between 5000 to 6000. I bought my
wood in the rough (sitca spruce). made all of the
metal parts. building a corvair to wm wynns specs.
things I bought premade, gas tank,ribs,engine
mount,prop hub. I plan on a local a & p to cover and
paint it, with my help.
del.
--- Phil Hopkins wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Hokay, I've looked all over, and I'm not finding
> much info on costs. I know most of you probably
> know all this stuff, but I'm a first time builder,
> and I'm trying to get a fix on just how much moolah
> I'm gonna wind up laying out for this admittedly
> priceless airplane. :-}
>
> Would anyone mind offering some ballpark figures for
> say, wood :-} and the various items that have to go
> somewhere on the plane like wheels and brakes, cowl,
> gas tanks, landing gear, prop, etc.? I know the old
> saw that someone built a Piet for $3500 (or $1500 or
> $2500....), but I'm hoping to get a little input on
> more typical total costs.
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil Hopkins
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
"Greg Cardinal"
On applications using 3/32 cable use the AN155-16S (1600 # strength) turnbuckles.
On the applications using 1/8 cable use the AN155-22S (2200 # strength) turnbuckles.
We used short turnbuckles on all applications, no long ones.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Chris A Tracy 09/05 6:30 PM >>>
Speaking of turn buckles, How do you know which ones to buy? ie. what
strength rating, size , type ect.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
I'M BAACCCKKK!
Here's a tip, get the clip style turnbuckles rather than the lockwire
ones. The clips take the place of the lockwire in securing the turnbuckles
and are far easier to safety. Also, since you are using less wire, they
are also lighter (marginally).
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 Doug413(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks aircraft have good sections on turnbuckles in their
> catalogs. The Piet (Improved Air camper) uses some 1/8 cable (follow the
> plans) and lots of 3/32 cable. The two piets in the museum at Oshkosh have
> 1/16 for the tail flying wires. Use 3/32 here if you don't like the 1/16. I
> use the turnbuckles with 10-32 threads on my airplanes for both the 3/32 and
> the 1/8 cable. We (Chuck Gantzer and I) are using turnbuckles with 8-32
> threads for the 1/16 tail wires on the current project. The short length
> turnbuckles are the lightest and look nice.
>
> Doug Bryant
> Wichita, Ks
>
> Don't forget the PIET fly in. It will be held in Benton, Ks Sept 9, 00
> (Benton is a small town just north of Wichita)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
Doug, have you found much at the'Yard' in Wichita? I wondered if they had
much in the way of hardware?
Greg
>
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks aircraft have good sections on turnbuckles in
their
> catalogs. The Piet (Improved Air camper) uses some 1/8 cable (follow the
> plans) and lots of 3/32 cable. The two piets in the museum at Oshkosh
have
> 1/16 for the tail flying wires. Use 3/32 here if you don't like the 1/16.
I
> use the turnbuckles with 10-32 threads on my airplanes for both the 3/32
and
> the 1/8 cable. We (Chuck Gantzer and I) are using turnbuckles with 8-32
> threads for the 1/16 tail wires on the current project. The short length
> turnbuckles are the lightest and look nice.
>
> Doug Bryant
> Wichita, Ks
>
> Don't forget the PIET fly in. It will be held in Benton, Ks Sept 9, 00
> (Benton is a small town just north of Wichita)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | weight of wheels? |
I have become a bit obsessive lately in trying to keep my Piet as light
as possible (not to the point of trimming the edges of my charts off -
YET :) and am going to continue til it's done.
Which generally weigh less, the spoke-type wheels, or the smaller,
balloon type?
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight of wheels? |
Richard,
My spoke wheels, including tire, hub, axle and brakes, weigh 17 pounds
each. The 6" wheels, tires, brakes and axles on my Sonerai weigh about 10
pounds each.
The apparent advantages are two, in my opinion. The spoke wheels just look so
cool, and the weight is forward and would seem to help the otherwise natural
tail heavy condition of the Piet.
Cheers
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
I too have become fanatic about weight saving. I haven't built gear
legs, but am going the ATV 4-wheeler rout as described in a past
BPANews. The author claims 17 lbs per side, total! even with the gear
legs! I have my wheels, hubs, 3/4" axels etc., and I believe he is very
close. At Aeromart (Oshkosh) I lifted a pair of Goodyear wheels, brakes
bearings etc. that were probably exchanged for Cleavelands and I guessed
them to be 40 lbs. alone (conservativly). The big atv tires have the
look of the old Goodyear Airwheels of the 30's, and am considering
setting up my Piet without shocks for additional weight savings. Can
always add later if needed. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Addition to previous post:: The Goodyear wheels I spoke of earlier also
included tires and tubes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
01:02:05 PM
Does anyone have a full or nearly so set of BPA news? I would like to
purchase a copy and didn't get a set before Grant went out of
business.
Thanks,
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckles and such |
Yes, the Yard Store is homebuilders heaven. All of the general hardware on
all my planes is from the Yard. Whenever I find something which is needed
for the piet, I buy alot of that item so I can share with other builders.
For instance, I have thousands of little clips which hold the cowling to the
plywood formers. I have them with tinnerman nuts and others with # 8
nutplates. I also found the 3/16 iron rivets used on the tail, and they work
very well. later, Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weight of wheels? |
Wouldnt a Ford-powered Piet tend to be a little nose heavy? (I'm using
a Ford).
Richard
--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
>
>
> Richard,
> My spoke wheels, including tire, hub, axle and brakes, weigh 17
> pounds
> each. The 6" wheels, tires, brakes and axles on my Sonerai weigh
> about 10
> pounds each.
> The apparent advantages are two, in my opinion. The spoke wheels
> just look so
> cool, and the weight is forward and would seem to help the otherwise
> natural
> tail heavy condition of the Piet.
> Cheers
> Warren.
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight of wheels? |
Richard,
Could very well be, and not at all looking to dissuade you from using the
balloon tires....Mr. Sam seems to be doing very well indeed.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weight of wheels? |
Yeah, I like the spoke ones too, but since Im using the Ford, I'm
misering every pound I add on. Plus, I've been watching the two
Brodhead videos and theres a red Piet with small balloon tires that
does a ton of fly-bys, and that look is really growing on me. I think
since they weigh so much less (and are reported to make it handle
better on the ground) I'll probably go with those.
A source for those? Recommendations anyone?
Richard
--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
> Richard,
> Could very well be, and not at all looking to dissuade you from
> using the
> balloon tires....Mr. Sam seems to be doing very well indeed.
> Cheers,
> Warren.
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: weight of wheels? |
Richard,
For light weight, check on the Azusa aluminum 6" wheels from either
Aircraft Spruce or Great Planes, and check out the brakes for these from Tracy
O'brien. I have a set of the brakes for my Sonerai, and for the price, they
are great.
http://www.tracyobrien.com
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
The REAL cost is IMPOSSIBLE to figure... Depends how
is each ones wife's feelings toward aviation ;-)
and family expenses..... :-0
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Phil Hopkins wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Hokay, I've looked all over, and I'm not finding
> much info on costs. I know most of you probably
> know all this stuff, but I'm a first time builder,
> and I'm trying to get a fix on just how much moolah
> I'm gonna wind up laying out for this admittedly
> priceless airplane. :-}
>
> Would anyone mind offering some ballpark figures for
> say, wood :-} and the various items that have to go
> somewhere on the plane like wheels and brakes, cowl,
> gas tank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Another thing to factor in that is generally underestimated.....SHIPPING
COSTS. I tend to find that this is the great unknown. For example, I just
ordered some strut blanks from Univair. The struts cost about $800 CDN.
The shipping cost $220 CDN! Granted, the struts are 10' and could not go
by UPS, but $220 is a little steep! The worst thing is that there is
generally nothing you can do about it. If you send the parts back, you may
still end up with the shipping bill but no parts!
The big thing here in Canada is the custom charges that some shippers
charge. For example, UPS charges a $40 customs charge on every shipment it
processes through customs. So, let's say you order 20 items from Aircraft
Spruce totalling $150. Due to back ordered parts, the order is sent in 3
shipments, something ASS likes to do. Shipping charges alone will come to
about $40 for the 3 shipments and then you will pay another $120 in
customs charges. That makes for a $160 shipping charge for a $150 order! I
have had to insist that US suppliers ship only complete orders and that
they use US mail only as the customs fee is $7 and the shipping costs are
cheaper. Besides, UPS generally holds things in customs for a week or so
making the mail just as fast, if not faster.
If you really want to save some money, make less frequent, larger orders
to the supply houses and insist that suppliers ship only complete orders.
If you're in the States, UPS is fine especially since thay offer pretty
good insurance and tracking.
I'd say that in total, I've spent between $1500 and $2000 in shipping
alone for the project! However, considering that most kit manufacturers
and even automotive dealerships charge from $500 - $1500 for shipping (and
crating), it's not that far off the mark. Even shipping is cheaper in bulk
:-). Oh well, enough rambling. I'm just venting over the sticker shock of
this afternoon's strut order.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Gary Gower wrote:
>
> The REAL cost is IMPOSSIBLE to figure... Depends how
> is each ones wife's feelings toward aviation ;-)
> and family expenses..... :-0
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Phil Hopkins wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Hokay, I've looked all over, and I'm not finding
> > much info on costs. I know most of you probably
> > know all this stuff, but I'm a first time builder,
> > and I'm trying to get a fix on just how much moolah
> > I'm gonna wind up laying out for this admittedly
> > priceless airplane. :-}
> >
> > Would anyone mind offering some ballpark figures for
> > say, wood :-} and the various items that have to go
> > somewhere on the plane like wheels and brakes, cowl,
> > gas tank
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish Question |
I am using the polyfiber varnish combo EV-400 and EV410 catalyst for the
final pre-cover coating of my tailfeathers. The instructions on the can
mention a 30 minute (or 1 hr in humid conditions) wait after mixing for
"induction" before application.
I then varnished the vert stab, both elevators, the rudder and then the
horiz stab (in that order). All from the same batch.
The next day everything but the vert stab was perfect. Three days later the
VS is still so tacky your finger will stick to it. All else is just right.
The ONLY difference I can think of is that I didn't wait a full 30 mins or 1
hr before applying the varnish.
Has anyone else seen this before? I'm pretty sure that the reducer that
came with it will take it off with a little elbow grease, but I find it
amazing that there was THAT much difference. What exactly is "induction
time"? Could it be something else?
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Y2K Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton |
Hey Group,
This is just a reminder about our Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton Airpark, this
weekend, 9/9/00. Benton is easy to find. It's about 10 miles NE of Wichita
KS, on Rt. 254. Take the Benton exit off of Rt. 254, to the south, and drive
thru the small town. You will see the gas station at that exit. They have a
20 mph speed limit thru this small old town, and they make you plenty aware
of it, with multiple speed limit signs. After you pass the school, on the
east side of the road (less than a mile), the road turns to the west, go less
than half mile, and the Benton Airpark is on the south side of the road. I
have a 'Pietenpol Fly-In' sign out there by the road, next to the 'Benton
Airpark' sign. We are going to have Doug Bryant's Pietenpol ,Model A
powered, Air Camper there, he built it, and has been flying it for about 4
years. Doug and I built my Model A Powered Air Camper, which is getting very
close to being airworthy. The airframe is done, engine installed, rigging
done. I am in the final stages of carving the prop, and I will have a prop
display, with lots of information on propeller construction. I also have a
complete photo album of my entire airplane process, as well as lots of
reference material. We also have a complete set of plans, up on a piece of
plywood, for refference, and lots of discussions. Mine and Dougs planes are
based at Benton. We always enjoy promoting Pietenpols, and answering
questions. There are more Pietenpols flying, and under construction today,
all over the world, than there ever has been in the 70 year history of this
low cost, high fun airplane!!
There will be at least 2 corvair (long) fuselages there, uncovered.
There should be quite a few other bits and pieces of other peoples projects
on hand, too. Last year, there were quite a few projects there, and it was
all about Pietenpols !!
If the weather permits, there very well could be 3 maybe 4 other
Pietenpols flying in. There will be at least one, possibly two J3 Cubs
there, as well as a beautiful Steerman, that is based at Benton, and they
will be selling rides in the Steerman. The Model A Car Club of Wichita will
be there in force, too. Last year there were 32 Model A cars and trucks
there, and they will be showing up around 9 or 10 am. Those guys are real
interested to see how one of their engines is used on an airplane !! I'm
interested to see how they use an aircraft engine in their cars !! We are
also going to have a food booth, and camping available, too.
If you are building a Pietenpol, this is 'The Place to Be' !! We're looking
forward to seeing ya'll there !!
Chuck Gantzer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
I found the samething. Which cause me to make some vacations revolve around
getting parts and also becoming a better scrounger. I took the advise of
others on the list and bought my struts used from the local airport and
found beatiful streamline struts from a certified aircraft for $20 each.
Greg
>
> Another thing to factor in that is generally underestimated.....SHIPPING
> COSTS. I tend to find that this is the great unknown. For example, I just
> ordered some strut blanks from Univair. The struts cost about $800 CDN.
> The shipping cost $220 CDN! Granted, the struts are 10' and could not go
> by UPS, but $220 is a little steep! The worst thing is that there is
> generally nothing you can do about it. If you send the parts back, you may
> still end up with the shipping bill but no parts!
>
> The big thing here in Canada is the custom charges that some shippers
> charge. For example, UPS charges a $40 customs charge on every shipment it
> processes through customs. So, let's say you order 20 items from Aircraft
> Spruce totalling $150. Due to back ordered parts, the order is sent in 3
> shipments, something ASS likes to do. Shipping charges alone will come to
> about $40 for the 3 shipments and then you will pay another $120 in
> customs charges. That makes for a $160 shipping charge for a $150 order! I
> have had to insist that US suppliers ship only complete orders and that
> they use US mail only as the customs fee is $7 and the shipping costs are
> cheaper. Besides, UPS generally holds things in customs for a week or so
> making the mail just as fast, if not faster.
>
> If you really want to save some money, make less frequent, larger orders
> to the supply houses and insist that suppliers ship only complete orders.
> If you're in the States, UPS is fine especially since thay offer pretty
> good insurance and tracking.
>
> I'd say that in total, I've spent between $1500 and $2000 in shipping
> alone for the project! However, considering that most kit manufacturers
> and even automotive dealerships charge from $500 - $1500 for shipping (and
> crating), it's not that far off the mark. Even shipping is cheaper in bulk
> :-). Oh well, enough rambling. I'm just venting over the sticker shock of
> this afternoon's strut order.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
| Subject: | The yard in Wichita |
"Bob Seibert"
Doug, Greg,
Is this "Yard" a surplus place for airplane goodies?
I'm going to try to make the Benton Flyin on Saturday.
I will be staying Saturday night at my brother-in-law's on the South
side of Wichita. Is it open on Saturday? Where is it?
Also, I am planning on flying into Westport (71K) and leaving my RV6
tied down for the night there. Is that a good place to park it for the
night?
Regards,
Bob Seibert
RV-6 and about half of a Piet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
Ken,
just a note about the UPS custom charges. That charge is for them to write
up and submit a form( # - ?), but you can save the cost with UPS if you tell
them and insist you can file your own customs document. A friend that works
in the industry told me this.
regards,
Domenico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Microcar2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chris from California |
Hi, I found Mark Anderson and now want to talk to Chris Exaguard (sp?) of
California T-powered scout? does not fly across the country but trailers and
puts together at the event. Phone number or e-mail
thanks
microcar2
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Y2K Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton |
| From: | John E Fay <jefay(at)juno.com> |
>
> Hey Group,
> This is just a reminder about our Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton
> Airpark, this
> weekend, 9/9/00.
I've got to compliment you. This sounds like a great little fly-in
you've put together. I especially think that the educational or
demonstration displays you're getting up sound really good. We need to
get more stuff like that done at Brodhead. I live in Peoria, just
twohours south of Brodhead, so I guess I should "take the bull by the
horns", help organize it, and see if we can get it done. My partner
and I who are building two piets, would love to get them completed and
hit some of these other piet fly-ins, like yours some day. Hope we can
see some pictures of it after the event.
Hope you have great weather.
John Fay, in Peoria
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The yard in Wichita |
In a message dated 9/7/00 8:59:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com writes:
<<
Doug, Greg,
Is this "Yard" a surplus place for airplane goodies?
I'm going to try to make the Benton Flyin on Saturday.
I will be staying Saturday night at my brother-in-law's on the South
side of Wichita. Is it open on Saturday? Where is it?
Also, I am planning on flying into Westport (71K) and leaving my RV6
tied down for the night there. Is that a good place to park it for the
night?
Regards,
Bob Seibert
RV-6 and about half of a Piet
>>
Yes the Yard is open Saturday. Westport is ok. It's on the opposite side of
town as Benton, But closer to where you'll be staying. Benton would be good
also. Hope to see you at the fly-in.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish Question Again |
Sorry for a duplicate post, but my server has had a recent seizure and was
acting strange lately.
I asked this question a couple days ago, saw no response. With the recent
bout of dyslexia that my computer has had, I may have missed any response.
(Or I may have bad breath and no one wants to talk to me.) Anyway, I'll try
again... just in case.
Question previously asked...
I am using the polyfiber varnish combo EV-400 and EV410 catalyst for the
final pre-cover coating of my tailfeathers. The instructions on the can
mention a 30 minute (or 1 hr in humid conditions) wait after mixing for
"induction" before application. I mixed up a batch waited about 10 minutes.
I then varnished the vert stab, both elevators, the rudder and then the
horiz stab (in that order). All from the same batch.
The next day everything but the vert stab was perfect. Three days later the
VS is still so tacky your finger will stick to it. All else is just right.
The ONLY difference I can think of is that I didn't wait a full 30 mins or 1
hr before applying the varnish.
Has anyone else seen this before? I'm pretty sure that the reducer that
came with it will take it off with a little elbow grease, but I find it
amazing that there was THAT much difference in the results of parts
varnished form the same batch. The time frame is the only variable I can
come up with. What exactly is "induction time"? Could it be something
else?
By the way, it is now 4 days later, and the one part (VS) is still just as
sticky as can be.
All other parts are perfect and will be covered this weekend.
Thanks (again), Bert (who promises not to bore you guys with this question
again)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
WELL FRIENDS
THE PLANS FOR A NEW PIETENPOL ARE ON MY DESK,
AND I'AM WORKING ON THE CORVAIR ENGINE..
I WILL TRY TO COMPLETE THE AIRCRAFT ON 16 MONTHS..
HERE I GO.
JAVIER CRUZ.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish Question Again |
"Richard Gillespie"
Bert
If you didn't allow the minimum of 30 min. of induction time before starting
and the part that is sticky is the first one that you coated, perhaps while
you were coating it the induction time was running still and the material
was "induced" enough before you coated the rest. I live in Ft. Myers
Florida and usually wait a full hour on this same product unless our
humidity is down to 30 or 40 percent. I've never had the problem you
describe.
Dick G.
GN-1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Good luck....I had the same idea when I got my plans for the
Christavia. This month marks the 10th anniversary of that date! Don't be
so worried about finishing in 16 months, enjoy the building process.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, javier cruz wrote:
>
> WELL FRIENDS
>
> THE PLANS FOR A NEW PIETENPOL ARE ON MY DESK,
> AND I'AM WORKING ON THE CORVAIR ENGINE..
> I WILL TRY TO COMPLETE THE AIRCRAFT ON 16 MONTHS..
> HERE I GO.
>
> JAVIER CRUZ.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Thanks for the info. However, the US Mail/Canada Post has done an
excellent job so far and only charges a $7 customs fee, very
reasonable. They are usually cheaper and quicker than UPS standard
service. Besides, I have enough trouble getting the suppliers to ship
complete and to use mail, explaining this procedure would likely be an act
of futility!
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
> Ken,
> just a note about the UPS custom charges. That charge is for them to write
> up and submit a form( # - ?), but you can save the cost with UPS if you tell
> them and insist you can file your own customs document. A friend that works
> in the industry told me this.
> regards,
> Domenico
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
01:28:08 PM
I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter and
how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to find
various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble the
complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at cost,
for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
letter will take it and continue to make it available.
There have to be some older members who have many or all newletters,
but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
(830) 739-8894 home
(803) 935-8538 work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
"Fishnet"
| Subject: | It's that rodent time of the year again. |
"walter evans"
I guess like everyone else, I'm ready to do battle with the mice. Even
though I use mouse pellets ,they are ever present. I've just returned from
a flight when someone says " look" only to see a mouse bailing out and
running through the grass. Or one time, when all set to go , and turn on
the numbers, ready to give full throttle, when a mouse climbed up my arm and
was hanging on for dear life in the wind.
Enough of the wildlife stories, anyone got any good tricks to keep them
away?
I've got a Fisher 404 in a Cover-it hanger. They've knawed around the
points where the aileron rods come out of the wing and meet the horn.
Between that and the droppings, you know they are there.
Love to hear some good ideas.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Mike, that is a terrific idea. Glad you thought of it. Will you keep us
informed on the list please? Dad got into building his plane after the BPA
newsletter went away. Since everyone talks of how great it is, I would like
to get him an archive set and find out how to get him a current subscription.
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Hofmann" <johnh(at)kencook.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Hi Mike and group,
My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee area. I
am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this would be
appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for years and
look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am also an
A&P and have restored several aircraft.
Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol knowledge
CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and things
where people make money. So we could have the following:
Old Newsletters
Tips and Tricks
Photos
Articles from this group on "big adventures"
Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut into
someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put in the
time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal cost to
cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this is an
idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in order to
provide a good product we can all enjoy.
Let me know what you think
-john-
> I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter and
> how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
>
> The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to find
> various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble the
> complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at cost,
> for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> letter will take it and continue to make it available.
>
> There have to be some older members who have many or all newletters,
> but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
>
> Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
> (830) 739-8894 home
> (803) 935-8538 work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Sounds like a good idea and a great media to do it on.
Greg
John wrote:
Hi Mike and group,
My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee area. I
am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this would be
appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for years and
look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am also an
A&P and have restored several aircraft.
Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol knowledge
CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and things
where people make money. So we could have the following:
Old Newsletters
Tips and Tricks
Photos
Articles from this group on "big adventures"
Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut into
someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put in the
time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal cost to
cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this is an
idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in order to
provide a good product we can all enjoy.
Let me know what you think
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
Javier,
We're 8 years into an 18 month project.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Varnish Question Again |
Bert,
I have no experience with the product you used, but when you are using
any manufacturers product, especially these two-part epoxies or paints it
is best to follow the mixing instructions to the letter. Sometimes you
will feel like a chemist. I've painted airplanes using Imron and
Alumigrip. The mixed Imrom had to sit for 15 minutes before spraying
which wasn't too bad, but the Alumigrip had to be mixed a hour ahead of
time. This was a real pain in the butt. But if you didn't wait, the
paint would never dry. By the way, these experiences were over twenty
years ago. Just really follow the manufacturers instructions.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
John
I have all the newsletters except a couple of the very last ones. I'll post
which ones I need then I can make a complete set for you. I'll be out of
town until early next week, but I check then
Barry Davis
770-834-7970
bed(at)mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann <johnh(at)kencook.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
>
> Hi Mike and group,
> My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee area.
I
> am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this would be
> appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for years
and
> look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am also
an
> A&P and have restored several aircraft.
>
> Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
knowledge
> CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and things
> where people make money. So we could have the following:
> Old Newsletters
> Tips and Tricks
> Photos
> Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
>
> Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut into
> someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put in
the
> time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal cost
to
> cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this is
an
> idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in order to
> provide a good product we can all enjoy.
>
> Let me know what you think
> -john-
>
> > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter and
> > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> >
> > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to find
> > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble the
> > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at cost,
> > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> >
> > There have to be some older members who have many or all newletters,
> > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> >
> > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> > (830) 739-8894 home
> > (803) 935-8538 work
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'nle97(at)juno.com'"
FWIW, Ive been flying my 2.5 year project for 2.5 years.
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol
Javier,
We're 8 years into an 18 month project.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Time to Build a Piet ? |
Michael D Cuy
Group- Just like building a garage, a shed, or a Pietenpol.....
unfortunately it seems to take about double the time I thought
it would to do a certain phase of the project. I told everyone I would
be flying in 2 years.....and 4.5 years later it happened. This is not
to discourage any of you, but to let you know not to worry if you don't
meet a certain deadline you've made for yourself. It's ok, as long as
you're not intentionally goofing off. (which I did repeatedly !) And for
those who are retired or have the time and cash you CAN be done quickly.
There was some guy in Michigan or somewhere who was retired and
built one in some phenomenal amount of time, like 11 or 13 mos. Unreal !
If you just plug away on something, something every day you'll eventually
have a flying machine. It's really a series of little projects and jobs that
looks like a mountain if you don't bite them off as little projects.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
This was sent to me about the new newsletter. I have no idea who he is.
The contact was: BPA, c/o Independent Register, P.O. Box 255, Brodhead
WI 53520-0255.
The letter you received was from a Donald F. Campbell, Consulting
Actuaries, 221 N. La Salle St. - Sutie 3117, Chicago IL 60601.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: It's that rodent time of the year again. |
Walter,
When you park your airplane, get some aluminum under skirting for house
trailers, cut it down to size and place these around your main or nose
wheels. If you have a tail dragger, lift the tail and put the tail wheel
on top an upside down five gallon pail. The mice can't climb the bucket
or the skirting and get to your plane.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Mike,
I have all the newslatters starting with Issue 36, 2nd quarter 1992 if
this will help. I, too, had planned on buying the complete set of all
the back issues and never did do it - usually too broke. It would be
nice to have them.
Let me know if this will help and I'll send what you need. I also have a
few magazine articles I could copy and send if this would be of any
value. I usually save most everything and have some Air Progress
magazines from back in the mid-'50s.
I have not yet contacted the guy starting the new newsletter. Have you
heard from him yet? Is this going to go? I sure hope so.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
That's alright Steve, my yet to be finished Christavia already has 7000 km
on it ;-).
BTW, I saw you on TV again this week as SpeedVision re-ran the "Piet at
70" show. Very cool, you're already in rereuns!
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> FWIW, Ive been flying my 2.5 year project for 2.5 years.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> nle97(at)juno.com
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:13 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; javcr(at)yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol
>
>
>
> Javier,
> We're 8 years into an 18 month project.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Ken Beanlands'"
Reruns? Oh boy. The one time I make a silly fool of myself and it is caught
on tape and played worldwide....
That was a blast.
I'm looking forward to your first flight Ken. Hope the TW performs for you!
Speaking of pietple making quick progress, Corky in LA is moving right
along, and Larry Williams should be joining the like of John Greenlee, who
just got his airworthyness cert. Johns first flight may be during the
weekend....
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Beanlands
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol
That's alright Steve, my yet to be finished Christavia already has 7000 km
on it ;-).
BTW, I saw you on TV again this week as SpeedVision re-ran the "Piet at
70" show. Very cool, you're already in rereuns!
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> FWIW, Ive been flying my 2.5 year project for 2.5 years.
>
> Steve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> nle97(at)juno.com
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:13 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; javcr(at)yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pietenpol
>
>
>
> Javier,
> We're 8 years into an 18 month project.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Also, if anyone can get their hands on electronic copies (Word docs,
scans, etc.) I'd love to have them available on aircamper.org.
Richard
--- Patcoolnet(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Mike, that is a terrific idea. Glad you thought of it. Will you
> keep us
> informed on the list please? Dad got into building his plane after
> the BPA
> newsletter went away. Since everyone talks of how great it is, I
> would like
> to get him an archive set and find out how to get him a current
> subscription.
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04:14:45 PM
YEEE HA!
Now we're making some progress. Thank you very much Barry.
Let's start a sign up sheet for copies. If you send me an EMail off
line I'll keep a list and verify cost with everyone before we run
copies. We can leave it open for about a month and then run off sets
for all requests.
To sign up reply to mbell(at)sctcorp.com
Mike
"Barry Davis"
To: ,
"John Hofmann"
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Re: BPA Newsletter
ronics.com
09/08/2000 03:59 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to "Barry Davis"
John
I have all the newsletters except a couple of the very last ones. I'll
post
which ones I need then I can make a complete set for you. I'll be out
of
town until early next week, but I check then
Barry Davis
770-834-7970
bed(at)mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann <johnh(at)kencook.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
>
> Hi Mike and group,
> My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee
area.
I
> am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
would be
> appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
years
and
> look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am
also
an
> A&P and have restored several aircraft.
>
> Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
knowledge
> CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
things
> where people make money. So we could have the following:
> Old Newsletters
> Tips and Tricks
> Photos
> Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
>
> Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut
into
> someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put
in
the
> time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal
cost
to
> cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if
this is
an
> idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
order to
> provide a good product we can all enjoy.
>
> Let me know what you think
> -john-
>
> > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter
and
> > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> >
> > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
find
> > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble
the
> > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
cost,
> > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> >
> > There have to be some older members who have many or all
newletters,
> > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> >
> > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> > (830) 739-8894 home
> > (803) 935-8538 work
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
I'd be willing to throw in a 'snapshot' of the entire aircamper.org
website for it as well, for 'offline browsing'.
Richard
--- John Hofmann wrote:
>
>
> Hi Mike and group,
> My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee
> area. I
> am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
> would be
> appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
> years and
> look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am
> also an
> A&P and have restored several aircraft.
>
> Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
> knowledge
> CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
> things
> where people make money. So we could have the following:
> Old Newsletters
> Tips and Tricks
> Photos
> Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
>
> Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut
> into
> someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put
> in the
> time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal
> cost to
> cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this
> is an
> idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
> order to
> provide a good product we can all enjoy.
>
> Let me know what you think
> -john-
>
> > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter
> and
> > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> >
> > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
> find
> > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble
> the
> > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
> cost,
> > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> >
> > There have to be some older members who have many or all
> newletters,
> > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> >
> > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> > (830) 739-8894 home
> > (803) 935-8538 work
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's that rodent time of the year again. |
Get a cat?
;>)
bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's that rodent time of the year again.
>
> I guess like everyone else, I'm ready to do battle with the mice. Even
> though I use mouse pellets ,they are ever present. I've just returned
from
> a flight when someone says " look" only to see a mouse bailing out and
> running through the grass. Or one time, when all set to go , and turn on
> the numbers, ready to give full throttle, when a mouse climbed up my arm
and
> was hanging on for dear life in the wind.
> Enough of the wildlife stories, anyone got any good tricks to keep them
> away?
> I've got a Fisher 404 in a Cover-it hanger. They've knawed around the
> points where the aileron rods come out of the wing and meet the horn.
> Between that and the droppings, you know they are there.
> Love to hear some good ideas.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Hi.
I'm excited to hear about the news letters becoming available again. For those
of us who didn't get started until after it was ended, this will be a BIG
help. The one thing I might want to suggest, however, to whomever puts
together the CD is that a written permission be recieved from each of the
magazine publishers whose articles are included. Approach them as this being a
owner's group type of thing rather than a commercial reprinting, and be sure to
reference their copyrighted material on the disk as being their property. That
way no one ends up like MP3.Com- facing any legal problems from copyright
issues. If they hesitate, perhaps we could offer to let them (or have one of
us) contribute a story on the group or on one of the planes in exchange? After
all, most magazines are always looking for something to fill next month's
issue. Just my two cents worth, as someone who has studied copyright issues.
Jay Travis
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> I'd be willing to throw in a 'snapshot' of the entire aircamper.org
> website for it as well, for 'offline browsing'.
>
> Richard
>
> --- John Hofmann wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Mike and group,
> > My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee
> > area. I
> > am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
> > would be
> > appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
> > years and
> > look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am
> > also an
> > A&P and have restored several aircraft.
> >
> > Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
> > knowledge
> > CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
> > things
> > where people make money. So we could have the following:
> > Old Newsletters
> > Tips and Tricks
> > Photos
> > Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> > Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
> >
> > Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut
> > into
> > someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put
> > in the
> > time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal
> > cost to
> > cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this
> > is an
> > idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
> > order to
> > provide a good product we can all enjoy.
> >
> > Let me know what you think
> > -john-
> >
> > > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter
> > and
> > > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> > >
> > > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
> > find
> > > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble
> > the
> > > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
> > cost,
> > > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> > >
> > > There have to be some older members who have many or all
> > newletters,
> > > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> > >
> > > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> > >
> > > Mike Bell
> > > Columbia, SC
> > > (830) 739-8894 home
> > > (803) 935-8538 work
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: It's that rodent time of the year again. |
One word. "Meow". Works for us.
--- walter evans wrote:
>
>
> I guess like everyone else, I'm ready to do battle with the mice.
> Even
> though I use mouse pellets ,they are ever present. I've just
> returned from
> a flight when someone says " look" only to see a mouse bailing out
> and
> running through the grass. Or one time, when all set to go , and
> turn on
> the numbers, ready to give full throttle, when a mouse climbed up my
> arm and
> was hanging on for dear life in the wind.
> Enough of the wildlife stories, anyone got any good tricks to keep
> them
> away?
> I've got a Fisher 404 in a Cover-it hanger. They've knawed around
> the
> points where the aileron rods come out of the wing and meet the horn.
> Between that and the droppings, you know they are there.
> Love to hear some good ideas.
> walt
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Click here for Free Video!!
> http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
--- Jay wrote:
>
> Hi.
> I'm excited to hear about the news letters becoming available again.
> For those
> of us who didn't get started until after it was ended, this will be a
> BIG
> help. The one thing I might want to suggest, however, to whomever
> puts
> together the CD is that a written permission be recieved from each of
> the
> magazine publishers whose articles are included. Approach them as
> this being a
> owner's group type of thing rather than a commercial reprinting, and
> be sure to
> reference their copyrighted material on the disk as being their
> property. That
> way no one ends up like MP3.Com- facing any legal problems from
> copyright
> issues. If they hesitate, perhaps we could offer to let them (or
> have one of
> us) contribute a story on the group or on one of the planes in
> exchange? After
> all, most magazines are always looking for something to fill next
> month's
> issue. Just my two cents worth, as someone who has studied copyright
> issues.
>
> Jay Travis
>
> Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'd be willing to throw in a 'snapshot' of the entire aircamper.org
> > website for it as well, for 'offline browsing'.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > --- John Hofmann wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mike and group,
> > > My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the
> Milwaukee
> > > area. I
> > > am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
> > > would be
> > > appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
> > > years and
> > > look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I
> am
> > > also an
> > > A&P and have restored several aircraft.
> > >
> > > Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a
> Pietenpol
> > > knowledge
> > > CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
> > > things
> > > where people make money. So we could have the following:
> > > Old Newsletters
> > > Tips and Tricks
> > > Photos
> > > Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> > > Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
> > >
> > > Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not
> cut
> > > into
> > > someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to
> put
> > > in the
> > > time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a
> nominal
> > > cost to
> > > cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if
> this
> > > is an
> > > idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
> > > order to
> > > provide a good product we can all enjoy.
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think
> > > -john-
> > >
> > > > I have received notes from several people regarding the
> newsletter
> > > and
> > > > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> > > >
> > > > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > > > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
> > > find
> > > > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will
> assemble
> > > the
> > > > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
> > > cost,
> > > > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new
> BPA
> > > > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> > > >
> > > > There have to be some older members who have many or all
> > > newletters,
> > > > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list
> to
> > > > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please
> give
> > > > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> > > >
> > > > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and
> kept
> > > > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bell
> > > > Columbia, SC
> > > > (830) 739-8894 home
> > > > (803) 935-8538 work
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > =====
> > Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > My building progress:
> > http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
> >
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
count me in on the newletter copies when it's put together. I'll try to dig
up any
helpfull info also.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Bell
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
YEEE HA!
Now we're making some progress. Thank you very much Barry.
Let's start a sign up sheet for copies. If you send me an EMail off
line I'll keep a list and verify cost with everyone before we run
copies. We can leave it open for about a month and then run off sets
for all requests.
To sign up reply to mbell(at)sctcorp.com
Mike
"Barry Davis"
To:
, "John Hofmann"
Sent by: cc:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat Subject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
ronics.com
09/08/2000 03:59 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to "Barry Davis"
John
I have all the newsletters except a couple of the very last ones. I'll
post
which ones I need then I can make a complete set for you. I'll be out
of
town until early next week, but I check then
Barry Davis
770-834-7970
bed(at)mindspring.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hofmann <johnh(at)kencook.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
>
> Hi Mike and group,
> My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee
area.
I
> am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
would be
> appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
years
and
> look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am
also
an
> A&P and have restored several aircraft.
>
> Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
knowledge
> CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
things
> where people make money. So we could have the following:
> Old Newsletters
> Tips and Tricks
> Photos
> Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
>
> Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut
into
> someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put
in
the
> time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal
cost
to
> cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if
this is
an
> idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
order to
> provide a good product we can all enjoy.
>
> Let me know what you think
> -john-
>
> > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter
and
> > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> >
> > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
find
> > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble
the
> > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
cost,
> > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> >
> > There have to be some older members who have many or all
newletters,
> > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> >
> > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> >
> > Mike Bell
> > Columbia, SC
> > (830) 739-8894 home
> > (803) 935-8538 work
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
I was 12 years into a 3 year project.
Domenico Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron MacAdon" <macadon(at)midrivers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Mike
Include me on your sign up sheet for the BPA newsletter
It was great and I miss it.
Thanx Ron MacAdon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patcoolnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
Can someone give an approximate cost? 10.00, 100.00?
I have no clue as to how many were issued to begin with. Thanks, Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
01:48:23 PM
Another thought is to put an name and address list of all respondents
into the pack. This is assuming permission is given by each
individual. It's nice to know where projects are. Perhaps there
might also be a paragraph on each project. It could be added before
mailout of the final product..
Just another thought. Keep the ideas coming and we'll have a great
pack of info for all.
Mike Bell
106 Woodcrest Lane
Gaston, SC 29053
(803) 935-8538 home
(803) 935-8538 office
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
"walter evans"
I got this letter too. It sounded legit , like it was the way to go, so I
sent in the money. Hopefully I didn't push it down a rat hole.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
----- Original Message -----
From: <nle97(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
>
>
> This was sent to me about the new newsletter. I have no idea who he is.
>
> The contact was: BPA, c/o Independent Register, P.O. Box 255, Brodhead
> WI 53520-0255.
>
> The letter you received was from a Donald F. Campbell, Consulting
> Actuaries, 221 N. La Salle St. - Sutie 3117, Chicago IL 60601.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Boyd" <pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | two or three piece wing |
Has anyone ever built a two piece wing with the "center section" in one wing
and the other wing with only the outer panel? The archives have a msg from
David B Schober dated Dec 03, 1998 indicating such an arrangement is simpler
to build and lighter. The weight of such a wing setup may be slightly off
center but not enough to notice I would surmise. I've about finished my
ribs and am trying to decide how to go from here. Anybody with a two-piece
wing?? Are you still there David Schober?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: two or three piece wing |
In a message dated 9/9/00 5:30:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pietenpol41(at)hotmail.com writes:
<<
Has anyone ever built a two piece wing with the "center section" in one wing
and the other wing with only the outer panel? The archives have a msg from
David B Schober dated Dec 03, 1998 indicating such an arrangement is simpler
to build and lighter. The weight of such a wing setup may be slightly off
center but not enough to notice I would surmise. I've about finished my
ribs and am trying to decide how to go from here. Anybody with a two-piece
wing?? Are you still there David Schober?
>>
I have a three piece wing on the first aircamper because of limited space and
a one piece wing on the second. My humble opinion is to build one or the
other as designed; both are very good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: two or three piece wing |
leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Hello David: There is a fellow in Collinsville OK. (Tulsa) with a 2
piece wing. But I'll be darned If I know his name. The cabines taper to
the center at the wing. It was a steel tube fuselage. I once read (old
issue of the IPA news letter) of a 2 piece wing where the center section
was built into one panel and the other panel was joined outboard of the
cabine struts te same way a 3 piece wing would be joined to a center
section....strange. I checked the last roster Grant put out, no David
Schober. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Borodent(at)aol.com |
Has anyone tried Gorilla glue, its great. I'd like to use it on the Piet-
but havnt done any testing with it. Does anyone know of a homebuilt built
with Gorilla glue?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WaltSnyder(at)aol.com |
We've used it on free-standing laminated radius stair stringers and it
presented a problem with it's expansion that had to be compensated for.
Something to be considered. Extremely strong for those needs, however
Walt Snyder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
A while back some one asked about a step to get into the Piet. Well to
day I saw a 1931 Russel Light Monoplane, looks a lot like a Pietenpol
Scout but with a way cool 6 cyl. 45 hp radial out front. Any way it had
a step on the left side which consisted of a hole to put your toe into.
You stepped right onto the the lower longeron which was covered with
leather. The hole was wide open with no box isolating it from the out
side world. I think I will try to put one on my Piet. Has any one else
done this? And if so how does it work?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: two or three piece wing |
I dont see any logial use of this wing, the idea of a
3 piece wing (center section) is to have an easyer way
to trailer the plane (or store it).
The wing left in the center section will not permit
this...
Maybe a two piece wing, split in the center, but with
the attachments to the cabin in the normal position,
this may be better to built and handle than a one
piece wing.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Leon Stefan wrote:
> leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>
> Hello David: There is a fellow in Collinsville OK.
> (Tulsa) with a 2
> piece wing. But I'll be darned If I know his name.
> The cabines taper to
> the center at the wing. It was a steel tube
> fuselage. I once read (old
> issue of the IPA news letter) of a 2 piece wing
> where the center section
> was built into one panel and the other panel was
> joined outboard of the
> cabine struts te same way a 3 piece wing would be
> joined to a center
> section....strange. I checked the last roster Gran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
there was a piet at brodhead that had this. I watched
the owner use it, It seemed to be easy to use with the
exception that you had to twist your leg to get lined
up with the cockpit. If you put a peg out or use a
slide out peg then your feet are parralel with each
other when you step over the edge. the down side is
that the peg adds weight and adds drag if it is
stationary.
del
--- Chris A Tracy wrote:
>
>
> A while back some one asked about a step to get into
> the Piet. Well to
> day I saw a 1931 Russel Light Monoplane, looks a lot
> like a Pietenpol
> Scout but with a way cool 6 cyl. 45 hp radial out
> front. Any way it had
> a step on the left side which consisted of a hole to
> put your toe into.
> You stepped right onto the the lower longeron which
> was covered with
> leather. The hole was wide open with no box
> isolating it from the out
> side world. I think I will try to put one on my
> Piet. Has any one else
> done this? And if so how does it work?
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Sippola" <sippola(at)escape.ca> |
I'm planning to go this route, but will probably box the step in with
aluminum. Careful where you put it though. I put a cutout under the seat
in the ply side and found the location was useless once the center wing was
mounted. Looks like about 12-16 inches behind the rear seat back works
well for me.
Just about done one laminated ply spar. The 5' sections of plywood were
scharfed on a 45deg angle with 3 1/2" wide scharfs. The second layer of
ply centers over the 1st layers joint. Still have to put on the fir stips
to bring out the thickness to 1", (using 1/4" baltic birch ply for webs)
and the attachment areas will be built up with another two layers of ply.
Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg
----------
> From: Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Step
> Date: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:34 PM
>
>
> A while back some one asked about a step to get into the Piet. Well to
> day I saw a 1931 Russel Light Monoplane, looks a lot like a Pietenpol
> Scout but with a way cool 6 cyl. 45 hp radial out front. Any way it had
> a step on the left side which consisted of a hole to put your toe into.
> You stepped right onto the the lower longeron which was covered with
> leather. The hole was wide open with no box isolating it from the out
> side world. I think I will try to put one on my Piet. Has any one else
> done this? And if so how does it work?
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton |
Well, the 2nd annual Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark was a SUCCESS !! I
think everyone had a good time. We had a couple of Pietenpols fly in, with
all the wind, and Tom Terning showed us how to handle a near ground loop
situation. His seasoned piloting skills sure paid off that time !! Or, it
might have been crowd participation, with all their Oos and Aahs, that helped
him out !! I forgot to set out the coffee can donation, so I guess Doug and
will pay for the Porta-Jon this year, but please look for the 'The Coffee
Can' next year. Come to think of it, maybe we can avoid the $75 for the
porta-jon, and just pee in the coffee can !! :)
Pietenpols Forever
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
My progress is slowing because of indecision on lift struts.
Could make wooden struts as others have done successfully.
Could bite the bullet and buy streamline 4130.
Could use alum streamline tubing with or without a 4130 tube inserted.
OR could make them from 11/2 in .049 or .058 round 4130 and jurys from 5/8
.049. This latter is my leaning as I write. Piet's speed is such that
streamline tubing is almost a joke.
Would someone who reads this and knows something on the subject PLEASE let me
hear from you.
Corky in La
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | BPANews on a CD! |
Hi everyone!
The idea that all the issues of BPANews could be assembled as an archive
and placed on a CD is terrific.
I have notified Mike Bell to sign me up. And I've told John Hoffman, who
has offered to do the translation onto the CD that it will be greatly
appreciated. As soon as I read "Ken Cook" in his e-mail address, I knew we
were in good hands, as Ken was always a great advocate of general aviation.
Now, anyone with readable copies of old BPANews, get in touch with Mike
Bell and arrange to get these copies to John Hoffman in Milwaukee.
Then to have Richard DeCosta step forward to offer the info from his
aircamper.org is more good news.
I have offered to submit a comprehensive catalog of all the stuff that EAA
has published on the Piet in EAA magazines. I have Xerox copies of each of
these articles.
Life is good!
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
Corky,
Jim Sury, who is also here on the Piet list used round tubing on his Grega
GN-1(we call it his GreaPiet) for lift struts, and it didn't seem to slow
him down one bit!
I formed on him with my Cardinal, and as I remember, we were doing
80-85mph, so it didn't seem to slow him down much at all!
I've ben toying with that idea ever since, the streamline sure looks good,
but I'm not sure if the aerodynamic benefit justifies the expense. If you
could just find some of the Cub struts, you'd be set!
Maybe Jim is out there, reading this, Jim, what size round tubing did you
use for your lift struts?
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
The Russel Light Monoplane that I saw at the airshow yesterday used round
tubing with balsa wood glued onto the trailing edge then the whole thing
was wrapped in fabric, doped and painted. I had to look closely to see
how it was done. The area where the Jury struts attached were left round
with no balsa faring. The Landing gear legs and the jury struts got the
same treatment. I have some pictures that might show it. I liked the way
it looked. The owner said that a lot of the old airplanes are done this
way. I have know Idea how much weight this would add but it looked
great.
>
> My progress is slowing because of indecision on lift struts.
> Could make wooden struts as others have done successfully.
> Could bite the bullet and buy streamline 4130.
> Could use alum streamline tubing with or without a 4130 tube
> inserted.
> OR could make them from 11/2 in .049 or .058 round 4130 and jurys
> from 5/8
> .049. This latter is my leaning as I write. Piet's speed is such
> that
> streamline tubing is almost a joke.
> Would someone who reads this and knows something on the subject
> PLEASE let me
> hear from you.
> Corky in La
>
>
>
>
>
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DonanClara(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 09/09/2000 10:35:38 PM Central Daylight Time,
catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:
<< Has any one else
done this? And if so how does it work?
Chris
Sacramento, CA >>
Yea Chris...T.E.A.M Aircraft in Tennessee who put out the Mini-Max have a
fiberglass 'insert' that was designed for use on their a/c. As I recall, it
sold for somewhere in the range of $8-$12 . I installed it just aft of the
rear cockpit on the left side. It sits on the bottom longeron at the diagonal
where the pilot's seatback attaches. It looks good but has one drawback. It
is oriented for your foot to go straight inward which has turned out to be
awkward. I left it in but probably won'tuse it. It would have been much more
useful had it been designed for your toe to go in at a forward angle. Don H.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
07:46:14 AM
I think there was a lengthy thread about glues in the last year or so.
Check the archives. Gorilla sounds familiar.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton |
Glad it went well this year Chuck. Sorry I couldn't make it. I'll be
flying my Piet there next year though.
Greg
So close I can feel the wind in my hair....
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rcaprd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Fly-In at Benton
>
> Well, the 2nd annual Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton Airpark was a SUCCESS !!
I
> think everyone had a good time. We had a couple of Pietenpols fly in,
with
> all the wind, and Tom Terning showed us how to handle a near ground loop
> situation. His seasoned piloting skills sure paid off that time !! Or,
it
> might have been crowd participation, with all their Oos and Aahs, that
helped
> him out !! I forgot to set out the coffee can donation, so I guess Doug
and
> will pay for the Porta-Jon this year, but please look for the 'The Coffee
> Can' next year. Come to think of it, maybe we can avoid the $75 for the
> porta-jon, and just pee in the coffee can !! :)
>
> Pietenpols Forever
> Chuck G.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA Newsletter |
The aircamper.org local browsing would be great! Along with a complete set
of list archives too..
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: BPA Newsletter
>
> I'd be willing to throw in a 'snapshot' of the entire aircamper.org
> website for it as well, for 'offline browsing'.
>
> Richard
>
> --- John Hofmann wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Mike and group,
> > My name is John Hofmann and I am a technical writer in the Milwaukee
> > area. I
> > am making a CD for the Taylorcraft boys and am wondering if this
> > would be
> > appreciated by the Pietenpol faithful. I have been an admirer for
> > years and
> > look to be making splinters soon so I know from where I speak. I am
> > also an
> > A&P and have restored several aircraft.
> >
> > Here is what I would like to do to help out. I propose a Pietenpol
> > knowledge
> > CD. It could include whatever the group wanted short of plans and
> > things
> > where people make money. So we could have the following:
> > Old Newsletters
> > Tips and Tricks
> > Photos
> > Articles from this group on "big adventures"
> > Anything else Pietenpol related like old magazine articles.
> >
> > Basically we can include whatever we want as long as it does not cut
> > into
> > someone's legitimate money making opportunities. I am willing to put
> > in the
> > time to work on this project and would provide the CDs at a nominal
> > cost to
> > cover just materials. Any and all feedback is appreciated and if this
> > is an
> > idea people like it will require across the board cooperation in
> > order to
> > provide a good product we can all enjoy.
> >
> > Let me know what you think
> > -john-
> >
> > > I have received notes from several people regarding the newsletter
> > and
> > > how much they paid Grant and received nothing.
> > >
> > > The only way we will be able to get a set of newsletters is to
> > > assemble it ourselves. If EVERYONE will scour their sources to
> > find
> > > various issues and copy them and send them to me I will assemble
> > the
> > > complete (or as complete as we can get) set and make copies, at
> > cost,
> > > for all who want. After that, maybe the publishers of the new BPA
> > > letter will take it and continue to make it available.
> > >
> > > There have to be some older members who have many or all
> > newletters,
> > > but do not access this list. Does anybody have a mailing list to
> > > contact these folks? If you know some of these folks, please give
> > > them a call or drop them a letter and inquire.
> > >
> > > Work with me on this. We can get these things assembled and kept
> > > available for all of us and all the folks that follow.
> > >
> > > Mike Bell
> > > Columbia, SC
> > > (830) 739-8894 home
> > > (803) 935-8538 work
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
I have done the same thing, but instead of balsa wood
(very expensive here) I use yellow foam, the one that
comes in spray cans, just put two carboards in the
sides to hold the foam.
When dry, I make a wodden form of the finished shape
and put a little of abrasive paper (sp?) and shape it,
then is covered with cloth and dope. This foam is not
afected by dope.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Chris A Tracy wrote:
>
>
> The Russel Light Monoplane that I saw at the airshow
> yesterday used round
> tubing with balsa wood glued onto the trailing edge
> then the whole thing
> was wrapped in fabric, doped and painted. I had to
> look closely to see
> how it was done. The area where the Jury struts
> attached were left round
> with no balsa faring. The Landing gear legs and the
> jury struts got the
> same treatment. I have some pictures that might
> show it. I liked the way
> it looked. The owner said that a lot of the old
> airplanes are done this
> way. I have know Idea how much weight this would
> add but it looked
> great.
>
> writes:
> Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> >
> > My progress is slowing because of indecision on
> lift struts.
> > Could make wooden struts as others have done
> successfully.
> > Could bite the bullet and buy streamline 4130.
> > Could use alum streamline tubing with or without a
> 4130 tube
> > inserted.
> > OR could make them from 11/2 in .049 or .058 round
> 4130 and jurys
> > from 5/8
> > .049. This latter is my leaning as I write. Piet's
> speed is such
> > that
> > streamline tubing is almost a joke.
> > Would someone who reads this and knows something
> on the subject
> > PLEASE let me
> > hear from you.
> > Corky in La
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
Actually, LEAF sells streamlined covers out of plastic that work well. I
have a set that I'm not planning to use (4x10'). I'd sell them to ya, but
it's probably not worth the customs hassle on such a cheap product and at
10', they'd have to go by truck. I just bought my streamlined 0.049" 4130
struts from Univair. The front struts on the Christavia are approximately
3-1/2" x 1.5" and the rear are 2-3/8" x 1". They sell the rear stuff for
around $13 per ft and the fronts for just over $15 per foot. I have a
complete set for $500 USD. They just arrived on Thursday. Count on about
$200 for shipping depending on where they come from.
Ken
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Gary Gower wrote:
>
> I have done the same thing, but instead of balsa wood
> (very expensive here) I use yellow foam, the one that
> comes in spray cans, just put two carboards in the
> sides to hold the foam.
> When dry, I make a wodden form of the finished shape
> and put a little of abrasive paper (sp?) and shape it,
> then is covered with cloth and dope. This foam is not
> afected by dope.
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
>
>
> --- Chris A Tracy wrote:
> >
> >
> > The Russel Light Monoplane that I saw at the airshow
> > yesterday used round
> > tubing with balsa wood glued onto the trailing edge
> > then the whole thing
> > was wrapped in fabric, doped and painted. I had to
> > look closely to see
> > how it was done. The area where the Jury struts
> > attached were left round
> > with no balsa faring. The Landing gear legs and the
> > jury struts got the
> > same treatment. I have some pictures that might
> > show it. I liked the way
> > it looked. The owner said that a lot of the old
> > airplanes are done this
> > way. I have know Idea how much weight this would
> > add but it looked
> > great.
> >
> > writes:
> > Isablcorky(at)aol.com
> > >
> > > My progress is slowing because of indecision on
> > lift struts.
> > > Could make wooden struts as others have done
> > successfully.
> > > Could bite the bullet and buy streamline 4130.
> > > Could use alum streamline tubing with or without a
> > 4130 tube
> > > inserted.
> > > OR could make them from 11/2 in .049 or .058 round
> > 4130 and jurys
> > > from 5/8
> > > .049. This latter is my leaning as I write. Piet's
> > speed is such
> > > that
> > > streamline tubing is almost a joke.
> > > Would someone who reads this and knows something
> > on the subject
> > > PLEASE let me
> > > hear from you.
> > > Corky in La
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Chris
> > Sacramento, CA
> >
> >
> >
> > through
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >
> > Matronics!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
The struts for my first aircamper are made from 1 1/4 dia by .049 wall 4130
steel tubing from Aircraft Spruce. V sections made from low carbon steel
sheet at a local fab shop and MIG welded (weld 3/4 inch, skip 3 inches and so
on) onto the round for streamlining and column strength. These are installed
without jury struts (I prefer the cleaner look) and they are working very
well. There are 77 hours on the aircraft now. I had a structures engineer
help me aith all this.
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris,
An old Curtiss Jenny (actually a Canuck) is being restored in our hangar
and it has such a step on it. There is a metal frame on the top part
with several holes drilled in it so the fabric could be laced to it. We
are planning on doing something similiar with our Piet. The Canuck does
have a cloth boot to cover the hole on the inside and we're trying to
think of a way to do this without interfering with the rudder cables.
Getting in and out of the aft seat isn't a problem for me so much as I'm
6' tall, but my two partners are shorter and they feel such a step would
be a good idea.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube step. This is
simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can be made with
a
locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of the foot inside
the fuselage.
This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the tail section
to
avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Warren D. Shoun'"
I've always wanted to see one with a stirup liberated from a well worn
bronco saddle.
sTeve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
Shoun
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Step
An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube step. This
is
simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can be made
with a
locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of the foot
inside
the fuselage.
This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the tail
section to
avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
Cheers,
Warren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
"Michael King"
This work well. I have it on my GN-1 and is
very handy. It slides back into the airplane
thus no drag.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren D. Shoun <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Step
>
> An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube step.
This is
> simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can be
made with a
> locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of the
foot inside
> the fuselage.
> This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the tail
section to
> avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
What about "liberating" a rear seat folding footpeg from the back of a
motorcycle? It's small, sturdy, and would/could fold up into a minimal,
non-intrusive recess in the body, perhaps with a small sliding cover, when not
in use? That way, it wouldn't interfere with any control cables and wouldn't
induce so much drag while inflight? You'd have to brace it pretty well where it
mounted on the inside, but it "should" work. The idea came to me while looking
at a guy climbing into an F-86 at last weekend's airshow...
Jay Travis
Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> I've always wanted to see one with a stirup liberated from a well worn
> bronco saddle.
>
> sTeve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Warren D.
> Shoun
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 12:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; nle97(at)juno.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Step
>
>
> An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube step. This
> is
> simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can be made
> with a
> locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of the foot
> inside
> the fuselage.
> This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the tail
> section to
> avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
I don't remember what size they are but if you are really interested I
could find out for you. I don't really know how much additional drag they
create but the piet is dirty anyway. jas
At 08:52 PM 9/10/00 GMT, you wrote:
>
>Corky,
>
> Jim Sury, who is also here on the Piet list used round tubing on his Grega
>GN-1(we call it his GreaPiet) for lift struts, and it didn't seem to slow
>him down one bit!
>
> I formed on him with my Cardinal, and as I remember, we were doing
>80-85mph, so it didn't seem to slow him down much at all!
>
> I've ben toying with that idea ever since, the streamline sure looks good,
>but I'm not sure if the aerodynamic benefit justifies the expense. If you
>could just find some of the Cub struts, you'd be set!
>
> Maybe Jim is out there, reading this, Jim, what size round tubing did you
>use for your lift struts?
>
>Gary Meadows
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
04:14:23 PM
Congratulations, this has to be the first idea transferred from a
supersonic fighter to a slightly subsonic Pietenpol.
Jay
Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com,
Steve Eldredge
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Step
09/11/2000 03:24 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to Jay
What about "liberating" a rear seat folding footpeg from the back of a
motorcycle? It's small, sturdy, and would/could fold up into a
minimal,
non-intrusive recess in the body, perhaps with a small sliding cover,
when not
in use? That way, it wouldn't interfere with any control cables and
wouldn't
induce so much drag while inflight? You'd have to brace it pretty
well where it
mounted on the inside, but it "should" work. The idea came to me
while looking
at a guy climbing into an F-86 at last weekend's airshow...
Jay Travis
Steve Eldredge wrote:
>
> I've always wanted to see one with a stirup liberated from a well
worn
> bronco saddle.
>
> sTeve E.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Warren D.
> Shoun
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 12:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; nle97(at)juno.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Step
>
>
> An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube
step. This
> is
> simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can
be made
> with a
> locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of
the foot
> inside
> the fuselage.
> This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the
tail
> section to
> avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tailpost construction |
Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig- all of my struts and
braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with a way to fit the
tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper way to do it. You
obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side and then rip them both
down the middle when you pull the posts together,or do you ?, So my question
is:
Do you put a 1/2X 1" in each fusilage side and glue them together when you
pull the tail together or do you leave the tailpost out until after the
sides are pulled together and then fit it in, and if the later is the case
should you put the gussets on before you pull it together. It seems like it
would be hard to get perfect alignment with out something solid holding the
upper and lower longerons in alignment???????? Everything I've read says
simply to pull the fusilage sides together and carefully fitt them together.
If someone could let me know how they did this or how it is normally done I
would appreciate it much.
Ed G.
Piet in Progress
Palm Harbor Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
"Richard Navratil"
The insert that you describe is what I'm putting in. I drilled a hole thru
the tubes to lock it extended or retracted with a pin. I'm mounting it to
the rear seat bottom.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Step
>
> An alternative to the boot-step insert, is the sliding tube step.
This is
> simply one tube inside of another that can slide in and out, and can be
made with a
> locking twist slot in it. The eliminates the awkward placement of the
foot inside
> the fuselage.
> This type of design is also often used as a lift handle in the tail
section to
> avoid stress on the horizontal stabilizer.
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
In a message dated 9/11/00 5:29:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig- all of my struts and
braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with a way to fit the
tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper way to do it. You
obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side and then rip them both
down the middle when you pull the posts together,or do you ?, So my question
is:
Do you put a 1/2X 1" in each fusilage side and glue them together when you
pull the tail together or do you leave the tailpost out until after the
sides are pulled together and then fit it in, and if the later is the case
should you put the gussets on before you pull it together. It seems like it
would be hard to get perfect alignment with out something solid holding the
upper and lower longerons in alignment???????? Everything I've read says
simply to pull the fusilage sides together and carefully fitt them together.
If someone could let me know how they did this or how it is normally done I
would appreciate it much.
>>
Yes, put in a 1x1 tail post into each side, then pull sides together, layout
a cut line (approx 7 degrees) and cut (by hand) for a net width of 1" when
glued- It,s easy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Varnish Question - Yup, you gotta wait a while before |
applying.
Just a follow up, fellas.
I stripped off the old varnish (which was still sticky after 5 days). Took
about an hour. Let it dry for a few hours, re-applied a coat of the varnish
again. This time, I let it sit after mixing the catalyst to the base. I let
it sit one hour - the can says 30 min to an hour.
This time it worked fine. So my non-scientific experiment proved two things:
1) This varnish requires a short "induction" time , that is a waiting
period, after mixing and before application or it will be sticky as fly
paper for the rest of eternity.
2) Read the darn instructions on this stuff and follow them.
By the way, I started covering tonight. Got one elevator done. sure does
look neat.
Later, Bert (who is currently picking Polytac from his fingernails)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Gillespie" <dickmarg(at)peganet.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question Again
> Bert
> If you didn't allow the minimum of 30 min. of induction time before
starting
> and the part that is sticky is the first one that you coated, perhaps
while
> you were coating it the induction time was running still and the material
> was "induced" enough before you coated the rest. I live in Ft. Myers
> Florida and usually wait a full hour on this same product unless our
> humidity is down to 30 or 40 percent. I've never had the problem you
> describe.
>
> Dick G.
> GN-1
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cap Strip Stock & Gussets for Homebuilt on eBay! |
I saw this item for sale at eBay, thought it might give someone a leg up on
the material acquistion process! I thought I had sent it before, If I did
and I duplicate myself - sorry!!
Gary Meadows
>Title of item: Cap Strip Stock & Gussets for Homebuilt - EAA
>Seller: gattobianco(at)mail.com
>Price: Currently $20.50
>To bid on the item, go
>to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=431284461
>
>
>Item Description:
> The best quality aircraft spruce and mahogany from Wicks at a bargain
>price.
>
>There are a total of 36 1/4"x1/2"x6' aircraft spruce cap strip stock
>pieces. 28 are in bundled in the photo and there are another 8 that have
>been unsuccessfully steam bent (not shown) that will be shipped in the
>original container pictured.
>
>The 1/16" mahogany gussetts have been precisely laser cut to the following
>dimensions:
> 172 - 1"x2" half rounds
> 344 - 1"x1" quarter rounds
>
>These were purchased Wicks Aircraft Supply one year ago for a Pietenpol Air
>Camper project.
>
>I am only selling because I am leaving the country.
>
>Good luck bidding.
>I accept payment through X.com's PayPal!I'm VERIFIED so Buyer Protection is
>guaranteed.
>
> Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at
>http://www.ebay.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
Thanks Doug
Thats the way the plans made it look, but it seemed odd to put in two
1"X1"s and then rip them both down to 1/2" X 1"s but I guess thats the only
way to get the angle to fit right.
Ed G.
>From: Doug413(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, Doug413(at)aol.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:00:09 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 9/11/00 5:29:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
><< Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig- all of my struts and
> braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with a way to fit the
> tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper way to do it. You
> obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side and then rip them both
> down the middle when you pull the posts together,or do you ?, So my
>question
> is:
> Do you put a 1/2X 1" in each fusilage side and glue them together when
>you
> pull the tail together or do you leave the tailpost out until after the
> sides are pulled together and then fit it in, and if the later is the
>case
> should you put the gussets on before you pull it together. It seems like
>it
> would be hard to get perfect alignment with out something solid holding
>the
> upper and lower longerons in alignment???????? Everything I've read says
> simply to pull the fusilage sides together and carefully fitt them
>together.
> If someone could let me know how they did this or how it is normally done
>I
> would appreciate it much.
> >>
>Yes, put in a 1x1 tail post into each side, then pull sides together,
>layout
>a cut line (approx 7 degrees) and cut (by hand) for a net width of 1" when
>glued- It,s easy!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
>
>
> Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig-
> all of my struts and
> braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with
> a way to fit the
> tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper
> way to do it. You
> obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side
> and then rip them both
> down the middle when you pull the posts together,or
> do you?
You have to put 1 inch posts on because when you pull
them together and cut them. the back is 1 inch but the
front will be from 1.5 inches to 1.75. I pulled the
posts together tight. then I made a saw guide and cut
down thru with a skillsaw (and finished with a
handsaw). then pulled the posts tighter, scribed a
line at the joint and then let them apart to belt sand
to the scribed line. put them together and apart a
couple times to sand for a final fit. after I watched
the woodworkers at oshkosh make their joints (sloppy)
I wasnt at all worried about mine anymore.
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newsletter copies |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
09:33:17 AM
I just received response number 39 on the list of requests for
newletter reprints. This one is from "Sunny North Queensland,
Australia". He is planning to start a Piet and knows of another
under construction in Tasmania. This is quite a worldwide fraternity.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'ED GRENTZER'"
| Subject: | Tailpost construction |
Just to provide a different approach, I pulled the sides together and then
put in the *single* 1x1 tailpost. There is a missing bevel of wood near the
front edge of the tailpost, but not much. Gussets went on after.
steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
GRENTZER
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig- all of my struts and
braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with a way to fit the
tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper way to do it. You
obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side and then rip them both
down the middle when you pull the posts together,or do you ?, So my question
is:
Do you put a 1/2X 1" in each fusilage side and glue them together when you
pull the tail together or do you leave the tailpost out until after the
sides are pulled together and then fit it in, and if the later is the case
should you put the gussets on before you pull it together. It seems like it
would be hard to get perfect alignment with out something solid holding the
upper and lower longerons in alignment???????? Everything I've read says
simply to pull the fusilage sides together and carefully fitt them together.
If someone could let me know how they did this or how it is normally done I
would appreciate it much.
Ed G.
Piet in Progress
Palm Harbor Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Tailpost construction |
I also put the sides together first and then put in the tailpost. It worked
fine
and is more than strong enough. That was a brow sweater getting the two
sides
aligned and straight. I used a string and measured and checked by that, but
if
you look back at the archives,, someone mentioned running plumbobs to keep
alignment.
That idea might be good for you.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
Just to provide a different approach, I pulled the sides together and then
put in the *single* 1x1 tailpost. There is a missing bevel of wood near the
front edge of the tailpost, but not much. Gussets went on after.
steve e.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of ED
GRENTZER
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
Ok guys-- my first fusilage side is in the jig- all of my struts and
braces are cut and fitted, I know I can come up with a way to fit the
tailpost which will work, but there must be a proper way to do it. You
obviously don't put a 1"X 1" tailpost in each side and then rip them both
down the middle when you pull the posts together,or do you ?, So my question
is:
Do you put a 1/2X 1" in each fusilage side and glue them together when you
pull the tail together or do you leave the tailpost out until after the
sides are pulled together and then fit it in, and if the later is the case
should you put the gussets on before you pull it together. It seems like it
would be hard to get perfect alignment with out something solid holding the
upper and lower longerons in alignment???????? Everything I've read says
simply to pull the fusilage sides together and carefully fitt them together.
If someone could let me know how they did this or how it is normally done I
would appreciate it much.
Ed G.
Piet in Progress
Palm Harbor Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>Just to provide a different approach, I pulled the sides together and then
>put in the *single* 1x1 tailpost. There is a missing bevel of wood near
the
>front edge of the tailpost, but not much. Gussets went on after.
>
>steve e.
That's how I did it.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
In a message dated 9/12/00 4:24:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes:
<<
Thanks Doug
That's the way the plans made it look, but it seemed odd to put in two
1"X1"s and then rip them both down to 1/2" X 1"s but I guess that's the only
way to get the angle to fit right.
Ed G.
>>
They are not a true 1/2 x1 because they taper. Just make sure the total
width of the aft edge of the tailpost including the 1/8 gusset plate on each
side is 1 inch. There is a reason for that and you will see it when you
install the tail surfaces and brackets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>I also put the sides together first and then put in the tailpost. It worked
>fine
>and is more than strong enough. That was a brow sweater getting the two
>sides
>aligned and straight. I used a string and measured and checked by that, but
>if
>you look back at the archives,, someone mentioned running plumbobs to keep
>alignment.
>That idea might be good for you.
>Carl
The plumb bob was my suggestion.
Strike two center lines. One on the work table & a center line over the
table done with wire running below the ceiling. I fixed each end of the wire
to opposite walls with turnbucles to provide tension. The wire is located
true with the center line on the table. To do this, suspend plumb bobs ( 4 )
from the wire to line up with the table center line. The plumb bobs are
movable in the horozontal & verticle planes. The plumb bob strings come from
the wire through key rings. Thus , they can be moved fore & aft & up & down.
As you can see,by this method, one can true up the firewall to the tailpost,
the center section, or any station on the airplane.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Newsletter copies |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
Mike, I know I don't have all the back issues but you are welcome to use my
copies if you will promise to return them.
Regards,
Domenico Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ED GRENTZER" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks to everyone who responded with Tailpost const. info. I see now
that it has been done either way. I have decided to go with the
posts and gussets in each side, then rip them down to the proper width
and angles when I pull them together as the alignment of two stabilized
sides seems like it would be easier to manage than four longeron ends,
the tailpost and the gussets all at one time. Not that I'm putting down the
single post method mind you, I just don't know if I could handle all that
working by myself and come out of it with perfect alignment.
Thanks Again
Ed G.
Palm Harbor, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bernard Lefebvre <napo(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | aircraft grade plywood |
Hello everyone!
Does anybody amongst canadian piet builders, know where i could get
aircraft grade plywood in Canada other than Leavens.......
Thanks.
Bernard P. Lefebvre
Piet builder,
Val d'Or, Qc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | fuselage longerons |
Hi friends
I have been reading the pietenpol plans and i have a
question:
I call to UPS , DHL and the fuselage longerons,wing
spars are to big for shipping, so i can make the
longerons with a more small parts?
What company usually do you use for shipping?
Thanks.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | PERSONAL PETITION |
BECAUSE IM NOT A REALLY GOOD COMPUTER'S USER . AND I
DONT KNOW HO TO MAKE THIS PETITION .
ITS THE NEXT.
SINCERELY I NEVER READ ALL PIETENPOL MESSAGES THAT
ARRIVE TO MY MAIL SO I WISH TO GET OUT OF ALL OTHERS
LIST
I KNOW YOU CAN HELP ME TO TELL THEM TO ERASE ME FROM
THEIR MAILING LIST.
FOR YOUR ATTENTION
THANK YOU
JOSE EDUARDO PONCE
MEXICO
Obtenga su direccin de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com
en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
any local trucking co will do,try to order all of the
long stuff from one company to make it one shipment to
save money on shipping. ask the company that you are
ordering from for suggestions. they also can be
shipped by air. good luck
del
--- javier cruz wrote:
>
>
> Hi friends
> I have been reading the pietenpol plans and i have a
> question:
> I call to UPS , DHL and the fuselage longerons,wing
> spars are to big for shipping, so i can make the
> longerons with a more small parts?
> What company usually do you use for shipping?
> Thanks.
> Javier Cruz
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
08:36:05 AM
Javier,
You can splice long parts together from shorter pieces with glue and a
long, clean overlapping tapered cuts. Log onto the EAA website and
order their building wood aircraft book. It discusses the proper
length of taper, grain orientation and stress orientation to construct
longerons from "shorterons". For added confidence, construct a second
splice of some shorter pieces of material and after allowing plenty of
time to cure, test it to destruction. The wood should fail before the
glue.
If you check through the archives of this list, you will find
references to splicing longer pieces from shorter. Pietenpol built
spars from laminated 3/4 inch strips.
I don't know what you have available for shopping resources there. I
went to a Lowes Home Building Supply store this week and picked
through the 2X4 and 2X6 by 16 foot prime white spruce. I found a
couple pieces that I could saw a couple of 16 foot by 1 inch by 1
inch pieces from avoiding all the knots. The remainder will be cut to
shorter pieces between the knots and I think that I will have all of
my fuselage wood for $20. In different areas, different woods are
available. Kiln dried Douglas Fir is one of the more universally
available. It is a little heavier and a little stronger than Sitka
Spruce and a whole lot cheaper. You will have to pick through the
pile to get the grain that you want, but it is available. Yellow
Poplar is also available in a lot of areas.
You can get the U.S. Forest Products Laboratory Wood Handbook on-line
from their website. It discusses many domestic USA woods and a number
of others that are imported to the USA. Read the descriptions and
compare the woods that you have available to Sitka Spruce. Get the
EAA book and learn about selecting and building with wood.
Lots of luck,
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
javier cruz
Sent by: To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc:
ronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List:
fuselage longerons
09/14/2000 08:58 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list; Please respond
to javier cruz
Hi friends
I have been reading the pietenpol plans and i have a
question:
I call to UPS , DHL and the fuselage longerons,wing
spars are to big for shipping, so i can make the
longerons with a more small parts?
What company usually do you use for shipping?
Thanks.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
| Subject: | PERSONAL PETITION |
AT THE END OF EACH EMAIL IS THE WEB SITE FOR SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE
INSTRUCTIONS.
-= Subscription: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
GOOD LUCK!
stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: PERSONAL PETITION
BECAUSE IM NOT A REALLY GOOD COMPUTER'S USER . AND I
DONT KNOW HO TO MAKE THIS PETITION .
ITS THE NEXT.
SINCERELY I NEVER READ ALL PIETENPOL MESSAGES THAT
ARRIVE TO MY MAIL SO I WISH TO GET OUT OF ALL OTHERS
LIST
I KNOW YOU CAN HELP ME TO TELL THEM TO ERASE ME FROM
THEIR MAILING LIST.
FOR YOUR ATTENTION
THANK YOU
JOSE EDUARDO PONCE
MEXICO
Obtenga su direccin de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com
en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
Hi, Mike.
Your response to Javier about splicing brings up another question. I bought my
Piet project as a fuselage and
ribs from a friend, and he already has it built as a short version. I am able
to get ahold of a Lycoming
motor off of a 1937 Cub, and was wondering if it is possible (or advisable) to
stretch the fuselage out to the
long version (for better balance) or should I just plan on adding enough weight
to the nose to ballast it
out? Any opinions/thoughts/input?
Jay Travis
Mike Bell wrote:
>
> Javier,
>
> You can splice long parts together from shorter pieces with glue and a
> long, clean overlapping tapered cuts. Log onto the EAA website and
> order their building wood aircraft book. It discusses the proper
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
--- Jay wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Mike.
> Your response to Javier about splicing brings up
> another question. I bought my Piet project as a
> fuselage and
> ribs from a friend, and he already has it built as a
> short version. I am able to get ahold of a Lycoming
> motor off of a 1937 Cub, and was wondering if it is
> possible (or advisable) to stretch the fuselage out
> to the
> long version (for better balance) or should I just
> plan on adding enough weight to the nose to ballast
> it
> out? Any opinions/thoughts/input?
> Jay Travis
Mike Cuy used the exact same setup as yours, short
fuse with a cont 65. and balanced it just fine by
moving the wing back (check archives for much
discussion on that) you can also move the engine
ahead.
del
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
On the subject of wood.
Several months ago I began building my Piet. I asked the LIST for many
suggestions including sources of wood products. One reply was to the man in
Calgary for sitka spruce. Talked to him and found him a little steep even
though I don't question his quality. I found a wood source on the internet
and I luckily chose this lumber company in Washington. I called and asked if
they had a good grade of Douglas Fir with at least 8 to 12 rings per inch as
I had been advised to asked by this list. He came back and said he had some
select 2 X 6 Vertical Grain, Kiln dried with 18 to 22 rings per inch and
very straight. I bought 8 timbers, 128 bd ft @ $ 4.65 per ft. It cost $ 140
shipping from Puget Sound to Shreveport. It was worth it as I have had
absolutely no waste. They are rough sawn and measure about 1 7/8 after fine
planing.
I am so very pleased with this wood that I couldn't stay quiet any longer
knowing someone out there was in the same plight as I 3 months ago.
Corky in La
Edensaw Woods Ltd
211 Seton Rd
Port Townsend, Wa 98368
360-385-7878
edensaw(at)edensaw.com
I did my business with Mr. Jim Ferris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative Woods |
In checking the local lumber yard for alternative woods, check for Western
Hemlock. It is actually a bit
stronger than Sitka, is only very slightly heavier, depending on actual moisture
content, and is much better
than white spruce. Many yards selling white spruce are actually selling hemlock.
The difference can be
determined by the smell....hemlock smells like urine...really.
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
Javier,
I wouldn't try to splice the longerons from smaller pieces, especially
all four of them. Why don't you see if you can get some appropriate wood
from a local source; Sitka Spruce isn't the only wood you can use. If
you must have it shipped in, your only option would be by truck as far as
I know.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
Michael D Cuy
Jay- You can use the short fuselage with your Lycoming
engine without going to the long fuselage. Just build your
engine mount like the plans from Pietenpol show for the 65 HP
Continental installation, but make the distance from the firewall
2 or 3 inches longer. I'm flying with the short fuse and a 65 Cont.
and made my motor mount per the Pietenpol plans, PLUS one
inch....wish now I would have made that 2 or 3 ", but it works fine
the way it is. Depends lots on your weight too, really. I'm 200 lbs.
and if I were say, (what I should be) 165 lbs. my wing would not
have to be slanted back 4" aft of being vertical to make the CG right.
Maybe only 2" or so then. The LONG fuselage does give you 2" more
leg room in both the front and rear cockpits though.
If the Lycoming you are talking about from the Cub is a 65 hp Lycoming
be aware that it does not perform nearly as good as a Cont. 65 hp.
It says 65 hp but flies more like 50 hp for some reason.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
The plans show attaching the horz stab to the fuse with screws.
Has anyone used this method or would AN bolts be the way to go?
Carl
Sign up with Paypal,it's free and they will
give you $5.00 just for joining.
https://secure.paypal.x.com/refer/pal=skycarl%40megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
"Michael D Cuy"
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine |
Which engine is it exactly?? I have a O-145-B2 Lycoming that I'm adapting.
I've got the long fuse.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: stab attachment |
Michael D Cuy
>
>The plans show attaching the horz stab to the fuse with screws.
>Has anyone used this method or would AN bolts be the way to go?
>Carl
Carl- I had the same concern and installed two of those three or four
"pronged" speed nuts or whatever they call them that you see on wood
furniture sometimes. They come in various thread sizes. You drill your
hole then push them into the bottom of the top longeron.....the prongs dig
into the wood and keep the 'nut' from turning. When you tighten down on it
the prongs dig into the wood and give you good security there.
I suppose another way to do it is by installing floating AN nutplates there or
worse comes to worse put an inspection ring there to get at the nuts and
washers.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay <dagobert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Hi, Greg.
In answer to your earlier e-mail, that's the same
Lycoming as what I'm getting; an 0-145-B2. If you
don't mind, let me ask you a couple of questions
about it. What type carb does it use? (Mine is
missing) Also, does it use the same magneto harness
as a Bendix S-20 magneto? (Mine are cut to pieces)
What is a fair price to pay for one with decent
compression, but no logs? Do you have a manual for
this motor, by chance? Also, have you ever seen an
electric starter and/or alternator setup for one of
these? Also, do you think I can adapt the original
Cub motor mount that came with it, or do I have to
try and build one from scratch for my short fuselage
Piet? Thanks for your help on this.
Jay Travis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Q & A |
I'm going over to work on the plane in the morning. I've printed your post
out and I'll try to answer your questions.
The ones I know now are:
The going price is what ever someone is willing to pay... I figured it is
worth $1000-$1500 with good compression and no logs.(mine too)
I don't have a manual yet. I found a guy who did and sent a check but
haven't seen it yet. I've never seen a starter or alternator on one but
I've had several 'old hands' tell me 'they made them but who would want the
weight?' I'm going to hand start....
I'm just about done with a mount patterned off a Cub mount. The Cub mount
might work but I didn't have access to one that wasn't on an airplane to
try... Also patterning the engine cowl after a Cub...
Greg
>
> Hi, Greg.
>
> In answer to your earlier e-mail, that's the same
> Lycoming as what I'm getting; an 0-145-B2. If you
> don't mind, let me ask you a couple of questions
> about it. What type carb does it use? (Mine is
> missing) Also, does it use the same magneto harness
> as a Bendix S-20 magneto? (Mine are cut to pieces)
> What is a fair price to pay for one with decent
> compression, but no logs? Do you have a manual for
> this motor, by chance? Also, have you ever seen an
> electric starter and/or alternator setup for one of
> these? Also, do you think I can adapt the original
> Cub motor mount that came with it, or do I have to
> try and build one from scratch for my short fuselage
> Piet? Thanks for your help on this.
>
> Jay Travis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
Javier,
I bought my longerons from Wicks, they shipped to me by truck freight.
They are set up to handle these sorts of orders, give them a call and they
can help you out. If you do this it helps to have a business address to ship
to, it's cheaper that way. They crated it very securely. I'm sure Aircraft
Spruce can do that too.
I agree with John Langston, I wouldn't splice my original longerons. I'd
like to start out with full length pieces. I don't mind splicing in as a
repair, I just wouldn't start out that way.
Good Luck,
Gary Meadows
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stab attachment |
In a message dated 9/15/00 12:14:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
skycarl(at)megsinet.net writes:
<<
The plans show attaching the horz stab to the fuse with screws.
Has anyone used this method or would AN bolts be the way to go?
Carl
>>
Screws would probably work, but AN-3 bolts are much more comforting to me.
The aircraft in the museum at Oshkosh have hardware store bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stab attachment |
Carl,
We're in the process now of solving this problem. Last wednesday I
riveted a 10-32 nutplate to a small piece of 1/16th inch plywood and
glued this at the hardest to reach place. We decided to leave the
triangular section of the belly uncovered and to use an inspection cover
there so it will be a little bigger hole and we will be able to reach our
hand in there to install nuts from underneath. I had thought about
making these nutplates for all the bolts, but this larger access hole in
the belly will allow us to install regular nuts. There are only the two
drilled into the longeron where the diagonal side member comes in that
would be too difficult to reach.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Horizontal Stab ? |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Just to make sure I have not made a Boo Boo. I am working on the
horizontal stabilizer and I am about to glue on the 3/16th inch ply in
the center like the plans say. If I glue this on this make the center
beam thicker then the trailing edge beam. So here is my question. The
plans say to shim under the Leading Edge. This would imply that the
center beam and the trailing edge are mounted flush to the upper
longeron. This would cause the horizontal stabilizer to have a positive
incidence when installed. Is this what is supposed to be happening?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stab ? |
In a message dated 9/16/00 2:54:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
catdesigns(at)juno.com writes:
<< Just to make sure I have not made a Boo Boo. I am working on the
horizontal stabilizer and I am about to glue on the 3/16th inch ply in
the center like the plans say. If I glue this on this make the center
beam thicker then the trailing edge beam. So here is my question. The
plans say to shim under the Leading Edge. This would imply that the
center beam and the trailing edge are mounted flush to the upper
longeron. This would cause the horizontal stabilizer to have a positive
incidence when installed. Is this what is supposed to be happening?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
>>
You are exactly right! there is a slight incidence. That's the way to study
the plans. Good question!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stab attachment |
In a message dated 9/16/00 1:48:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
<< Carl,
We're in the process now of solving this problem. Last wednesday I
riveted a 10-32 nutplate to a small piece of 1/16th inch plywood and
glued this at the hardest to reach place. We decided to leave the
triangular section of the belly uncovered and to use an inspection cover
there so it will be a little bigger hole and we will be able to reach our
hand in there to install nuts from underneath. I had thought about
making these nutplates for all the bolts, but this larger access hole in
the belly will allow us to install regular nuts. There are only the two
drilled into the longeron where the diagonal side member comes in that
would be too difficult to reach.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
_- >>
I used AN-3 bolts and nylon locking nuts on all of mine. The Bolts were long
enough to pass thru the the horizontal and longerons with a 3/16 large area
washer and nut as stated. I just didn't like the idea of nutplates holding
primary structure together.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
"Michael D Cuy"
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engine |
"Richard Navratil"
Not to make you repeat all the past discussion. About what date was that.
I'll look it up in archives. I'm at this same point too.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lycoming Engine
>
> Jay- You can use the short fuselage with your Lycoming
> engine without going to the long fuselage. Just build your
> engine mount like the plans from Pietenpol show for the 65 HP
> Continental installation, but make the distance from the firewall
> 2 or 3 inches longer. I'm flying with the short fuse and a 65 Cont.
> and made my motor mount per the Pietenpol plans, PLUS one
> inch....wish now I would have made that 2 or 3 ", but it works fine
> the way it is. Depends lots on your weight too, really. I'm 200 lbs.
> and if I were say, (what I should be) 165 lbs. my wing would not
> have to be slanted back 4" aft of being vertical to make the CG right.
> Maybe only 2" or so then. The LONG fuselage does give you 2" more
> leg room in both the front and rear cockpits though.
>
> If the Lycoming you are talking about from the Cub is a 65 hp Lycoming
> be aware that it does not perform nearly as good as a Cont. 65 hp.
> It says 65 hp but flies more like 50 hp for some reason.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
Doug413(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> They [the tailposts] are not a true 1/2 x1 because they taper. Just make sure
> the total width of the aft edge of the tailpost including the 1/8 gusset plate
> on each
> side is 1 inch. There is a reason for that and you will see it when you
> install the tail surfaces and brackets.
OK, Doug, I see that the fittings on either side of the vertical fin are only 1"
apart (the thickness of the spar). The drawing, though, shows the tailpost being
1" wide at the trailing edge and it appears that this does not including the
gussets. If the thickness of the gussets keeps the fittings from lining up, what
about the fact that the tailpost tapers and no matter how you work it, the lower
fittings are going to be more than 1" apart because they are not at the very
trailing edge of the tailpost?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
While everyone is on the subject of tailposts... Has anyone attached theit
shoulder harnesses back to the tailpost?
Seems like this should give the most strength.
Greg
>
> >
> > They [the tailposts] are not a true 1/2 x1 because they taper. Just
make sure
> > the total width of the aft edge of the tailpost including the 1/8 gusset
plate
> > on each
> > side is 1 inch. There is a reason for that and you will see it when you
> > install the tail surfaces and brackets.
>
> OK, Doug, I see that the fittings on either side of the vertical fin are
only 1"
> apart (the thickness of the spar). The drawing, though, shows the
tailpost being
> 1" wide at the trailing edge and it appears that this does not including
the
> gussets. If the thickness of the gussets keeps the fittings from lining
up, what
> about the fact that the tailpost tapers and no matter how you work it, the
lower
> fittings are going to be more than 1" apart because they are not at the
very
> trailing edge of the tailpost?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
"walter evans"
This is one of those custom fit areas. I had gone ahead and made all of the
brackets for that area ahead of time. Scrap metal time.
It turned out to be easy. Keep the aft/ lower brackets per the print. the
aft / upper brackets, leave the verticle part per print, but leave the
horizontal piece long( to be cut later) and undrilled.
now
1.mount the aft/lower bkts
2.drill up through the horz. stab. wood
3. doing so you "spot" the undrilled upper bracket
4. remove upper bkt. and finish drill.
5. shape the end of the bracket to look good
"This way it doesn't matter how wide the tailpost is. "
To shoot the horz stab for being square and even, I put an aircraft nail in
the top of the turtledeck, behind the rear seat. and had a measuring wire
or tape ( string stretches too much) hooked to the nail. This way it was
easy to swing back and forth to get the rear tips of the horz stab exact,
before drilling to the fuse.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
>
>
> Doug413(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > They [the tailposts] are not a true 1/2 x1 because they taper. Just
make sure
> > the total width of the aft edge of the tailpost including the 1/8 gusset
plate
> > on each
> > side is 1 inch. There is a reason for that and you will see it when you
> > install the tail surfaces and brackets.
>
> OK, Doug, I see that the fittings on either side of the vertical fin are
only 1"
> apart (the thickness of the spar). The drawing, though, shows the
tailpost being
> 1" wide at the trailing edge and it appears that this does not including
the
> gussets. If the thickness of the gussets keeps the fittings from lining
up, what
> about the fact that the tailpost tapers and no matter how you work it, the
lower
> fittings are going to be more than 1" apart because they are not at the
very
> trailing edge of the tailpost?
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lou Larsen" <pietlars(at)gate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
Concerning your query; Yes, thats the way I did it.
Put a triangular 1" thick filler block, I think I used white ash,
sandwiched between two 1/8" ply gussets then bolted a 12 ga 4130 strap to
that and atttached the cable shackle to that. Used 1/8 cable to the
shoulder harness fitting. This is between the top longerons. This gives a
good cable angle and the strongest anchor point.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Yotz <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailpost construction
>
> While everyone is on the subject of tailposts... Has anyone attached
theit
> shoulder harnesses back to the tailpost?
> Seems like this should give the most strength.
>
> Greg
>
> >
> > >
> > > They [the tailposts] are not a true 1/2 x1 because they taper. Just
> make sure
> > > the total width of the aft edge of the tailpost including the 1/8
gusset
> plate
> > > on each
> > > side is 1 inch. There is a reason for that and you will see it when
you
> > > install the tail surfaces and brackets.
> >
> > OK, Doug, I see that the fittings on either side of the vertical fin are
> only 1"
> > apart (the thickness of the spar). The drawing, though, shows the
> tailpost being
> > 1" wide at the trailing edge and it appears that this does not including
> the
> > gussets. If the thickness of the gussets keeps the fittings from lining
> up, what
> > about the fact that the tailpost tapers and no matter how you work it,
the
> lower
> > fittings are going to be more than 1" apart because they are not at the
> very
> > trailing edge of the tailpost?
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Layout |
| From: | "Mike Bell" <mbell(at)sctcorp.com> |
09:06:48 AM
Hey Folks,
I was drawing the side of the fuselage onto my work table last night
and ran into a bit of a discrepancy. I have the top longeron drawn
straight and the front and the tailpost square. Measuring back and
down per the plans for the long fuse, I think they're marked as
"corrected in 94", I made all the measurements given and marked them
to give me the location of the bottom side of the bottom longeron. I
laid a long piece of flexible wood along the marks and let the bend in
the wood "fair" the line between. As I got along towards the rear
marks, at about 103 inches back, I had to bend my flexible wood
fairing back and forth to connect the marks. I really expected the
marks to line up along the fairing strip? I went back and checked the
measurements several times and finally followed the line the wood
took. It is off about a half inch at about the 103 inch mark. This
is where there is a pivot marked to be attached a specifiec
measurement up from the bottom longeron. Measuring up from the
longeron will therefore be about a half inch low. Does anybody
recognize a problem here? I'm inclined to continue as I have it and
mark the plans to measure an extra half inch to the pivot.
Thanks all,
Mike Bell
Columbia, SC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
"Lou Larsen"
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
Thanks Lou. That is basically what I'm trying to do also. I just wanted a
sanity check.
Greg
Lou Wrote:
> Concerning your query; Yes, thats the way I did it.
>
> Put a triangular 1" thick filler block, I think I used white ash,
> sandwiched between two 1/8" ply gussets then bolted a 12 ga 4130 strap to
> that and atttached the cable shackle to that. Used 1/8 cable to the
> shoulder harness fitting. This is between the top longerons. This gives
a
> good cable angle and the strongest anchor point.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sury <jimsury(at)fbtc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Layout |
Mike I think that that flexable wood strip you are using is the problem.
The 1x1 longeron isn't going to bend like the flexable strip does. Don't
worry about the measurements back there. Just pull your longerons together
and install the tailpost than make the pieces to fit from the seat back. I
just hope I understood your problem. Disregard if we are talking about
different things.jas
>
>
>Hey Folks,
>
>I was drawing the side of the fuselage onto my work table last night
>and ran into a bit of a discrepancy. I have the top longeron drawn
>straight and the front and the tailpost square. Measuring back and
>down per the plans for the long fuse, I think they're marked as
>"corrected in 94", I made all the measurements given and marked them
>to give me the location of the bottom side of the bottom longeron. I
>laid a long piece of flexible wood along the marks and let the bend in
>the wood "fair" the line between. As I got along towards the rear
>marks, at about 103 inches back, I had to bend my flexible wood
>fairing back and forth to connect the marks. I really expected the
>marks to line up along the fairing strip? I went back and checked the
>measurements several times and finally followed the line the wood
>took. It is off about a half inch at about the 103 inch mark. This
>is where there is a pivot marked to be attached a specifiec
>measurement up from the bottom longeron. Measuring up from the
>longeron will therefore be about a half inch low. Does anybody
>recognize a problem here? I'm inclined to continue as I have it and
>mark the plans to measure an extra half inch to the pivot.
>
>Thanks all,
>
>Mike Bell
>Columbia, SC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailpost construction |
In a message dated 9/18/00 1:03:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com
writes:
<<
OK, Doug, I see that the fittings on either side of the vertical fin are
only 1"
apart (the thickness of the spar). The drawing, though, shows the tailpost
being
1" wide at the trailing edge and it appears that this does not including the
gussets. If the thickness of the gussets keeps the fittings from lining up,
what
about the fact that the tailpost tapers and no matter how you work it, the
lower
fittings are going to be more than 1" apart because they are not at the very
trailing edge of the tailpost?
>>
True, leave some excess on the fittings and trim after all is fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | javier cruz <javcr(at)yahoo.com> |
thanks friends
I have been contacting with Cheri (Wicks) and i
received very good service from them.
Well on the next days i have to fly to Tulsa
(Oklahoma), anyone there is actually working on
Pietepol project or have any finished airplane?
I would like to see a real Pietenpol.
Thanks again.
Javier Cruz
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Layout |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
Mine did not line up either but once I got to bending in the 1x1 I got it
all to work out ok.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
writes:
>
>
> Hey Folks,
>
> I was drawing the side of the fuselage onto my work table last night
> and ran into a bit of a discrepancy. I have the top longeron drawn
> straight and the front and the tailpost square. Measuring back and
> down per the plans for the long fuse, I think they're marked as
> "corrected in 94", I made all the measurements given and marked them
> to give me the location of the bottom side of the bottom longeron.
> I
> laid a long piece of flexible wood along the marks and let the bend
> in
> the wood "fair" the line between. As I got along towards the rear
> marks, at about 103 inches back, I had to bend my flexible wood
> fairing back and forth to connect the marks. I really expected the
> marks to line up along the fairing strip? I went back and checked
> the
> measurements several times and finally followed the line the wood
> took. It is off about a half inch at about the 103 inch mark. This
> is where there is a pivot marked to be attached a specifiec
> measurement up from the bottom longeron. Measuring up from the
> longeron will therefore be about a half inch low. Does anybody
> recognize a problem here? I'm inclined to continue as I have it and
> mark the plans to measure an extra half inch to the pivot.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Mike Bell
> Columbia, SC
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
I just got off the phone with Amy Sinclair of Channel 13
(http://www.wgme.com/bios/amybio.html) here in Portland. Apparently my
brother called her and told her about the Piet I was building. She was
interested enough to give me a call, and she's bringing a cameraman
over tomorrow at 11 to do a story.
Bummer I can't have the control system installed for the interview.
Apparently, whe I glued the seats in place I didnt realise the finished
control assembly wouldnt be able to be installed! It's 2" too long for
me to get it into place. (everything is the right size, I just can't
get it into place!) Argh! Now I need to remove something to get it in
there. Any suggestions?
Wish me luck!
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol on TV |
Ah, a star is born! Congratulations and good luck, or are we supposed to say
"break a leg".
cheers,
Warren
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
> I just got off the phone with Amy Sinclair of Channel 13
> (http://www.wgme.com/bios/amybio.html) here in Portland. Apparently my
> brother called her and told her about the Piet I was building. She was
> interested enough to give me a call, and she's bringing a cameraman
> over tomorrow at 11 to do a story.
>
> Bummer I can't have the control system installed for the interview.
> Apparently, whe I glued the seats in place I didnt realise the finished
> control assembly wouldnt be able to be installed! It's 2" too long for
> me to get it into place. (everything is the right size, I just can't
> get it into place!) Argh! Now I need to remove something to get it in
> there. Any suggestions?
>
> Wish me luck!
> Richard
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
"'Richard DeCosta'"
It'd be great to see this. Any way to put it on your web page for a bit?
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta [mailto:aircamper(at)yahoo.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol on TV
I just got off the phone with Amy Sinclair of Channel 13
(http://www.wgme.com/bios/amybio.html) here in Portland. Apparently my
brother called her and told her about the Piet I was building. She was
interested enough to give me a call, and she's bringing a cameraman
over tomorrow at 11 to do a story.
Bummer I can't have the control system installed for the interview.
Apparently, whe I glued the seats in place I didnt realise the finished
control assembly wouldnt be able to be installed! It's 2" too long for
me to get it into place. (everything is the right size, I just can't
get it into place!) Argh! Now I need to remove something to get it in
there. Any suggestions?
Wish me luck!
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe <fishin(at)wwa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol on TV |
>
>
> Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>>
>> I just got off the phone with Amy Sinclair of Channel 13
>> (http://www.wgme.com/bios/amybio.html) here in Portland. Apparently
>> my
>> brother called her and told her about the Piet I was building. She
>> was
>> interested enough to give me a call, and she's bringing a cameraman
>> over tomorrow at 11 to do a story.
>>
>> Bummer I can't have the control system installed for the interview.
>> Apparently, whe I glued the seats in place I didnt realise the
>> finished
>> control assembly wouldnt be able to be installed! It's 2" too long
>> for
>> me to get it into place. (everything is the right size, I just can't
>>
>> get it into place!) Argh! Now I need to remove something to get it
>> in
>> there. Any suggestions?
>
> Good for you !! a great way to get public awareness of us builders.
> put on your best face and above all don't be like that joker a year or
> so ago who tried to build in 30 days and made an arse of himself.
> if them controls are built to plans, keep fiddling to get them in.
> kind of like a puzzle to fit under the seat. I had the same trouble
> but kept trying every angle to fit it till it finally made it with no
> alterations. hind sight again, I should have left the seat tops off
> till controls are in---live and learn.
> regards
> JoeC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol on TV |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
Richard,
I'm not sure why you can't install the control system?? Take the sticks off
the column and push it through the hole from behind the pilots seat. Am I
missing something?
Domenico Bellissimo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative engines |
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
Has anyone out ther in piet land ever used or considered using a Honda
Goldwing motorcycle engine for their piet. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast
who is considering building a piet. The torque and horsepower looks
favorable plus the engine is horizontally apposed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Seibert" <r18643(at)email.sps.mot.com> |
| Subject: | Control installation |
"Bob Seibert"
I had the same problem getting my control assembly in after the fuselage
was built. The tube won't slide in from behind the seat because of the
welded aileron horn. I just cut the tube in two so it would be short
enough to get in there. I made a sleeve of larger diameter tubing and
welded one end of the sleeve to the control tube. I then drilled a
couple of 1/4 inch cross holes on the other half of the joint. I bolted
the joint back together after I got the tube in place. The splice is
plenty solid enough and I placed it so it is hidden under the front
seat.
Bob Seibert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
<MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr>
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
What about weight? I've recently heard of guys using motorcycle engines.
But you have to remember that not all engines that have the same hp and
torque, have the same weight.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhQPc3FjR2RCMqxcLNKA6ivj9hLjdQIVAMwrucBhzH+fby93pSgdiR7/BXYi
Greg, There are three sizes of the Gold Wing engine, 1000, 1100, and
1200cc. I'm guessing weight would run from 250 to 300lbs. Is that too
heavy? Horsepower is around 75 with about 75 ftlbs torque. One problem
is the transmission is built into the engine case.
smtpin-101-8.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id
From: "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative engines
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:03:06 -0500
What about weight? I've recently heard of guys using motorcycle engines.
But you have to remember that not all engines that have the same hp and
torque, have the same weight.
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
I did look at the engine for my Christavia a few years back. At the time
there was a company selling plans to convert the engine using it's own,
built-in gearbox. A VW Rabit front spindle was attached to the output
shaft and bolted to the engine with an elaborate frame. The plans were
about $50 from a company called Sandpiper. However, to my knowlege, their
engine never powered an actual airplane. The other interesting thing was
that the output shaft was off center making for either an off prop
placement or a wide cowling. The plans only covered the 4 cylinder models
(1000, 1100 and 1200). Considering that the 1200 GW engine is very similar
to the 1200 cc Rotax 912, 80 HP to 100 hp is probably quite realistic.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
wrote:
>
> Has anyone out ther in piet land ever used or considered using a Honda
> Goldwing motorcycle engine for their piet. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast
> who is considering building a piet. The torque and horsepower looks
> favorable plus the engine is horizontally apposed.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Greg Yotz wrote:
>
> What about weight? I've recently heard of guys using motorcycle engines.
> But you have to remember that not all engines that have the same hp and
> torque, have the same weight.
>
> Greg
Sandpiper quoted a weight of around 200 installed (I believe, it's been a
while since I looked at the stuff). I still plan to play with it some day
to see if it's feasible.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Davis, Marc" <marc.davis(at)intel.com> |
"'MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | Alternative engines |
There is an article in kit planes this month about the use of motorcycle
engines in planes and the unique challenges there in.
marc
-----Original Message-----
From:
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04P
DPZAuPLAZM5lr
[mailto:MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXB
pnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative engines
ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
Has anyone out ther in piet land ever used or considered using a Honda
Goldwing motorcycle engine for their piet. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast
who is considering building a piet. The torque and horsepower looks
favorable plus the engine is horizontally apposed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Considering the Honda engine, the rated hp is developed at a very high
rpm and if it was direct drive would have to be limited to around 3000
rpm to keep the blade tips from going supersonic. At 3000 rpm the
engine may only be producing 25~30 hp which is is inadequate. So to
get the full hp that the engine is capable of producing, you would need a
prop reduction unit so the engine could turn 8~9000 rpm and the prop
only 2500 rpm. Such a unit would have to be custom made for the
engine or in other words, would cost a lot of money.
Then there is the subject of harmonics which if not considered and dealt
with could lead to broken crankshafts, soiled pants, cold sweats and
vanishing money.
But don't let that stop you, that's how we got to the moon and back, and
Pietenpols were and continue to be an important stop along the way. Also,
BMW boxer engines are turning up in a/c more frequently now, albiet, at
the lighter end of the scale.
Rodger
One piece wing 95% complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Beanlands <kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca> |
"Davis, Marc"
| Subject: | Alternative engines |
It actually mentions one of the more successful conversions of a Suzuki or
Yamaha V-twin that has been used for a few years on a Neiuport replica.
Kitplanes had an article on this plane and the conversion in the early
'90's. Sounds very promising. I believe it generated about 65-75 hp. The
Sandpiper one I mentioned earlier promised about 95 hp for the 1200 down
to 75 hp for the 1000. RagWing kits also used to use smaller 2-Stroke
motorcycle engines before the manufacturer put an end to it.
The article Marc refers to tends to stick to looking at only the crotch
rocket engines (talk of 4:1 PSRU's) rather than the cruising bikes.
However, the one thing that has always bothered me about the MC engines is
the amount of time bike owners tinker with their engines. Maybe it's done
because it's there and easily accessable. Maybe it's because the type of
person that buys bikes, like to tinker but maybe it indicates a
reliability issue. Of course, it could be a bit of all those factors. I
know that everyone I know with a bike is certainly a tinkerer type.
Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
<http://www.spots.ab.ca/~kbeanlan>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Davis, Marc wrote:
>
> There is an article in kit planes this month about the use of motorcycle
> engines in planes and the unique challenges there in.
>
> marc
>
>
> ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
>
> Has anyone out ther in piet land ever used or considered using a Honda
> Goldwing motorcycle engine for their piet. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast
> who is considering building a piet. The torque and horsepower looks
> favorable plus the engine is horizontally apposed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TXTdragger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
In a message dated 9/21/2000 11:13:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
kbeanlan(at)spots.ab.ca writes:
<< I know that everyone I know with a bike is certainly a tinkerer type >>
put 30K on my goldwing .... changed oil & plugs ..... was rider, not tinkerer
...
KISS principle here ..... it just kept on keeping on .... so smooth & quiet,
buddies called it the "electric cycle" lol
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Dear Piets,
I read with interest the specs on motorcycle engines and others. Have any of
you ever heard of, seen or used a Dodge Bros Series D engine, 1927, in a Piet
or any other aircraft. It seems that one favorable point in using the Ford
"A" engine is the strong crankshaft and low rpm/power ratio. This DB engine
has an even stronger crank plus five main bearings. I had one recently that
was so smooth I could stand a nickel on edge atop the head while it idled.
Thats smooooth. Weight should be about same as Ford. The mag is driven by a
waterpump shaft which also drove the distributor.
Just a thought.
C in L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Engines |
Well, how many of them Dodge Bros. engines you got??
Seems that the plentiful, cheap Ford parts makes the choice. I still can't get
over piston sets for $75, ring sets for $30, etc.
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Dear Piets,
> I read with interest the specs on motorcycle engines and others. Have any of
> you ever heard of, seen or used a Dodge Bros Series D engine, 1927, in a Piet
> or any other aircraft. It seems that one favorable point in using the Ford
> "A" engine is the strong crankshaft and low rpm/power ratio. This DB engine
> has an even stronger crank plus five main bearings. I had one recently that
> was so smooth I could stand a nickel on edge atop the head while it idled.
> Thats smooooth. Weight should be about same as Ford. The mag is driven by a
> waterpump shaft which also drove the distributor.
> Just a thought.
> C in L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
<MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr>
| Subject: | Re: Alternative engines |
"Richard Navratil"
You certainly opened an interesting topic here. I too have considered a
motorcycle engine. I am going to stop at Sport Wheels in Jordon MN this
weekend. Its a large motorcycle boneyard. The owners are also into
airplanes. One has an old Newport and the other an ultralite. I'll see
what they may have to add. I had been thinking of a V-4 from a motorcycle.
Dick Navratil
----- Original Message -----
From:
<MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04
PDPZAuPLAZM5lr>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative engines
ETAtAhUAn3huY6S7/iz3gO+/FrET7aQNgfgCFA/MbXBpnewj04PDPZAuPLAZM5lr
>
> Has anyone out ther in piet land ever used or considered using a Honda
> Goldwing motorcycle engine for their piet. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast
> who is considering building a piet. The torque and horsepower looks
> favorable plus the engine is horizontally apposed.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVkugE7P3LIQ+BHgll74
Thanks for all the input guys. I plan on building a Piet. Right now I'm
getting all the woodworking tools together. I'm purchasing a bandsaw and
tablesaw this weekend. I'm a motorcycle jock and my wife's a licensed
pilot. I've got her riding motorcycles now so I guess I'm going to learn
to fly airplanes. I flew hanggliders for ten years so I am not new to
flying. I'm a motorcycle mechanic so I'm very familiar with most
motorcycle engines. What I don't know is how much of a load a prop puts
on a crankshaft and that type of information. If and when my Piet is
completed my wife and I will flying together most of the time. Our total
combined weight is around 350lbs. Will the Model A engine fly us both on
hot marginal days? Thanks, Mike S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
Mike, One other avenue you might want to explore is the corvair engine.
Bernie used them on the piets he built after 1960. Easy conversion and
plenty of power.
Carl
ps nice to the wallet also
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVku
gE7P3LIQ+BHgll74Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 1:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative Engines
ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVkugE7P3LIQ+BHgll74
Thanks for all the input guys. I plan on building a Piet. Right now I'm
getting all the woodworking tools together. I'm purchasing a bandsaw and
tablesaw this weekend. I'm a motorcycle jock and my wife's a licensed
pilot. I've got her riding motorcycles now so I guess I'm going to learn
to fly airplanes. I flew hanggliders for ten years so I am not new to
flying. I'm a motorcycle mechanic so I'm very familiar with most
motorcycle engines. What I don't know is how much of a load a prop puts
on a crankshaft and that type of information. If and when my Piet is
completed my wife and I will flying together most of the time. Our total
combined weight is around 350lbs. Will the Model A engine fly us both on
hot marginal days? Thanks, Mike S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McNarry" <jmcnarry(at)techplus.com> |
<MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVkugE7P3LIQ+BHgll74=>
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engines |
Hi Guys
Though I would add some input to the engine discussion. Besides weight
you must consider the power transmission.
I don't mean gears although we can get into that. The old slow draggy
airframes, like the Pietenpol, benefit from as large a thrust diameter as
feasible. In other words a big relatively coarse propeller turning slowly.
The smaller engines in use today make their horsepower at a higher rpm and
with less torque. Smaller props at higher rpm let the engine turn faster to
make more HP but don't necessarily transfer the power to thrust as well.
Horsepower is a measurement of the rate of doing work. One Horsepower
is 33,000 ftlbs of work done in one minute.Torque is usually measured in
foot pounds. (pounds feet for you engineering types) To get the unit of
horsepower we need to figure out how far the engine moves its load in one
revolution. Since the unit of torque is foot pounds, the engine moves its
load 6.28 ft per rev. The circumference of a circle with a radius of one
foot. If we divide the standard HP figure of 33,000 by 6.28 and round things
off a bit we get a constant of 5252. with this information and a dyno we can
measure the torque developed multiply it by the rpm divide it by the
constant 5252 and come up with the HP.
HP = Torque x RPM / 5252
If you remember some algebra (no, you don't get that from swimming with your
girlfriend in a quarry) you can change things around and find out what
torque you get at a particular rpm.
Torque = HP x 5252 / RPM
Now an old A engine is 200.5 cu.in. and makes its 40 HP at about 2000
RPM. Now 40 x 5252 / 2000= 105 ft lbs. Not much you say, you try to pull
that torque wrench around the circle at 2000 rpm!
Now, although I have owned several Honda Goldwing's, I don't remember at
what rpm the HP rating was taken, but if we assume it is high in the RPM
band for a relatively small displacement 1000 or 1200 cc engine approx (74
cu in) and we apply the math, I'm sure we will find the torque to be much
less than a slow running engine of the same HP. The point of all this is
that almost any engine can be made to deliver its power, at what ever output
RPM we want, by using reduction gearing.
Many aircraft engines use reduction gears, RR Merlins, Allisons, Pratt
and Whitney, Continentals and Lycoming have all built engines using this
principle. The engine is made to run at the RPM that produces the most
torque with the prop turning at the most efficient RPM to tranfer that power
areodynamically. Most of the small aircraft we play with use direct drive,
large bore, high torque, low speed engines to eliminate the need to gear the
engine to turn a big prop slowly.
Now if you take that motorcycle engine figure out what RPM it needs to
run to provide the TORQUE required to swing a big prop and run it in that
gear, perhaps you could remove all the other unnessacary gears and save
some weight. You will still have an engine that runs very fast to provide
the power needed to fly. It will work but it means a lot of extra
complexity.
If you check out the archives or in the BPA Newsletters you will find
reference to A's that easily produce 60 + HP. Not too bad for an airframe
that will fly on 33 HP. I have always liked the sound of a slow running
engine swinging a big prop. Wonder what would happen if you worked on a set
of light weight headers and cammed an old A to increase the torque and make
it quieter. A stealth Peit?
John Mc
----- Original Message -----
From:
<MIDNIGHTRIDER-@webtv.net.ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVkugE7
P3LIQ+BHgll74=>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative Engines
ETAsAhQDKqQSWVeXuAzVvcBU2J4mDcfJ7wIUbGCfZsFiVkugE7P3LIQ+BHgll74>
> Thanks for all the input guys. I plan on building a Piet. Right now I'm
> getting all the woodworking tools together. I'm purchasing a bandsaw and
> tablesaw this weekend. I'm a motorcycle jock and my wife's a licensed
> pilot. I've got her riding motorcycles now so I guess I'm going to learn
> to fly airplanes. I flew hanggliders for ten years so I am not new to
> flying. I'm a motorcycle mechanic so I'm very familiar with most
> motorcycle engines. What I don't know is how much of a load a prop puts
> on a crankshaft and that type of information. If and when my Piet is
> completed my wife and I will flying together most of the time. Our total
> combined weight is around 350lbs. Will the Model A engine fly us both on
> hot marginal days? Thanks, Mike S.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longerons |
"Greg Cardinal"
Delta Air Freight shipped our 16 foot spar planks from Washington to Minneapolis
for less than $100.00
Greg Cardinal
>>> javier cruz 09/14 6:58 PM >>>
Hi friends
I have been reading the pietenpol plans and i have a
question:
I call to UPS , DHL and the fuselage longerons,wing
spars are to big for shipping, so i can make the
longerons with a more small parts?
What company usually do you use for shipping?
Thanks.
Javier Cruz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george ulicny" <gbu9(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Motorcycle Aero-Engines |
I only work on my pickup, or the wife's car as absolutely needed. However,
I was always working on the 8 motorcycles that I have owned over the years.
Their reliability was excellent, even the English one. I never had one
break down on me, that I recall. I simply enjoyed tearing down their carbs,
switching engines, and working on them. If I couldn't see my reflection in
the engine case, I got out the polish. I suspect that I was a fairly typical
bike owner. George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george ulicny" <gbu9(at)hotmail.com> |
Has anyone had experience with Corvair engine(s) in aircraft ? I assume
that they can't be purchased new from the Chevy dealer, after 30 years ?
Are they difficult to rebuild ? Parts expensive ? Thanks, George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engines |
Check out these web sites, there`s a wealth of information on the Corvair
engine here.
http://www.flycorvair.com
htp://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair
Rod W
>From: "george ulicny" <gbu9(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com, "george ulicny"
>To: Pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engines
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:32:51 HST
>
>
>Has anyone had experience with Corvair engine(s) in aircraft ? I assume
>that they can't be purchased new from the Chevy dealer, after 30 years ?
>Are they difficult to rebuild ? Parts expensive ? Thanks, George
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engines |
George,
Go to http://www.flycorvair.com for a good place to start. Bernard
Pietenpol started this Corvair deal in airplanes! I've purchased several
engines for $80.00 each, and you will have a very tough time spending
$2000.00 on an overhaul, unless your farm out all of the labor. These
engines are extremely reliable.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Piet on TV: Article |
I wrote up a little blurb about the Piet being on TV.
http://www.aircamper.org/story.cfm
I'm going to get an MPEG of it as soon as I can get it captured.
Cheers,
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
safely?
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter?? |
I just got in the mail a Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter (nicely
mangled by the post office, thank you very much). I don't remember this
even existing, let alone subscribing to it! It's a superbly done,
although very short, publication, and in color, no less! Even though I
didn't subscribe, the mailing label shows my subscription expired.
Hmmm... Is this the Buckeye newsletter revived? Who is doing it? How'd
I get a copy?
Confused in Maine,
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Brusilow" <mb-albany(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter?? |
"Michael Brusilow"
>
>I just got in the mail a Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter (nicely
>mangled by the post office, thank you very much). I don't remember this
>even existing, let alone subscribing to it! It's a superbly done,
>although very short, publication, and in color, no less! Even though I
>didn't subscribe, the mailing label shows my subscription expired.
>Hmmm... Is this the Buckeye newsletter revived? Who is doing it? How'd
>I get a copy?
>
>Confused in Maine,
>Richard
>
Hey Dick:
The newsletter has an e-mail address. Try asking them.
Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Richard DeCosta'"
| Subject: | Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter?? |
this is the new BPA publication, not really a ressurected Buckeye
publication. I'm betting that Grant handed over what he had to the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association and that they are making good on their promise to
start a new publication using the newpaper co in Brodhead. When I was in
Brodhead this summer they were handing out subscription cards ($10) and had
a meeting to discuss the changes, but I didn't stick around to hear all the
details. Maybe someone who did can fill in?
Steve E.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter??
I just got in the mail a Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter (nicely
mangled by the post office, thank you very much). I don't remember this
even existing, let alone subscribing to it! It's a superbly done,
although very short, publication, and in color, no less! Even though I
didn't subscribe, the mailing label shows my subscription expired.
Hmmm... Is this the Buckeye newsletter revived? Who is doing it? How'd
I get a copy?
Confused in Maine,
Richard
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
AirCamperpietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 9/25/00 5:45:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:
<<
Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
safely?
R >>
Might want to replace it and use the wood for other smaller parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter |
Piet heads -
A small group of Piet enthusiasts at Brodhead have picked up the slack
since the old Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter is no longer
published. The printing and mailing is actually being accomplished by the
newspaper in Brodhead, with editorial input from a few people in
Brodhead. However, the anonymous editors are looking for input from anyone
with writing skills and a few photos. So here is your chance to spread the
news. At the Brodhead conclave in August, it was made clear that this new
newsletter is assuming no assets or liabilities of the defunct Buckeye Piet
Association Newsletter. So it any of you are owed money or other materials
from Buckeye (as I am), that is gone.
I have a hunch that anyone who got their complimentary copy of the first
issue of the Brodhead paper had it mailed from the old Buckeye subscriber
list, or even the Pietenpol Owner Directory list. Anyway, regardless of
how you got it (even if it says "DATE DUE EXPIRED," look it over and if you
feel that four issues a year will be worth $10, send a check to
Brodhead Pietenpol Association
c/o The Independent-Register
Brodhead WI 53520-0255
Personally, I feel that we are very fortunate to have this new newsletter,
complete with full color pictures of people and airplanes. And to all you
Piet-heads out there that did not get a free copy, you should consider
sending your $10 to subscribe.
The internet E-mail group is great, but it is sure nice to have a hard copy
color newsletter.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Richard,
I wouldn't use them. If they're new, see about getting a refund.
Otherwise, I'd just cut them up and use them for smaller parts. Spars
can be spliced, but it's not good to make more than one splice per spar.
Patching them or just putting a doubler on top of a crack is not a wise
thing to do.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Concerning the "cracked spars";
The proper way to "patch" the spar is to cut off the 12-16" cracked end and
call this the inboard end of the spar and to cut off the other cracked
end and splice in the required length using a 12-1 scarf with the proper ply
plates on each side of the spar covering the splice.
Rodger Childs
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Yes, that's been the general concensus. I've decided to cut off the
split ends and use the rest for the smaller pieces that I can cut it
into.
Thanks all.
Richard
--- nle97(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Richard,
> I wouldn't use them. If they're new, see about getting a
> refund.
> Otherwise, I'd just cut them up and use them for smaller parts.
> Spars
> can be spliced, but it's not good to make more than one splice per
> spar.
> Patching them or just putting a doubler on top of a crack is not a
> wise
> thing to do.
>
> John Langston
> Pipe Creek, TX
> nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engines |
Warren,
Is good to hear that about the Corvair engines.
Here (Mexico) are impossible to find... My original
idea was to buy 2 "rebuildable" engines to get one
good one for my project, or at least one complete in
rebuildable condition... then, once regrinded buy the
spare parts and rebuild it myself, (I have experience
with VW conversions) but has been impossible to find
them from here.
I know is a great engine, if available...
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:
> Shoun"
>
> George,
> Go to http://www.flycorvair.com for a good place
> to start. Bernard
> Pietenpol started this Corvair deal in airplanes!
> I've purchased several
> engines for $80.00 each, and you will have a very
> tough time spending
> $2000.00 on an overhaul, unless your farm out all of
> the labor. These
> engines are extremely reliable.
> Cheers,
> Warren.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet on TV: Article |
Richard,
That is great, GOOD JOB, is the most dificult thing on
earth to get the media people to get the truth (or
close enough) in aviation related news! Been there,
done that. Congratulations for your page once more.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Richard DeCosta wrote:
> DeCosta
>
> I wrote up a little blurb about the Piet being on
> TV.
> http://www.aircamper.org/story.cfm
>
> I'm going to get an MPEG of it as soon as I can get
> it captured.
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
> http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo!
> Messenger.
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Richard,
Dificult (close to impossible) to advise from e-mail
from any of us.
What would you do if you think you might have a
serious desease? Ask the bartender? any friend? One
or two Doctors?
Get an expert or two homebuilder(s) (or EAA Chapter
advisor(s)) to take a serious look before going
farther, NOT only any "Beer Hangar Expert". Your
life may depend in this advise and work done (medicine
or mayor surgery?)
Hope that in nothing serious, only a cold, but forget
about Duct Tape :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Richard DeCosta wrote:
> DeCosta
>
> Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the
> middle for about
> 12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch
> it, like he did
> with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How
> would you do it
> safely?
>
> Richard
>
>
> =====
> Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> My building progress:
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>
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> Messenger.
>
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>
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________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
| From: | Phil Hopkins <hopkinsp(at)southwestern.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Phil Hopkins
>
>Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
>12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
>with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
>safely?
>
>Richard
I see you've gotten some good advice from various perspectives on this, but
I thought I'd add my 2p as a long time woodworker, just for consideration
in yours and similar situations. It depends on what you mean by cracked,
but if you mean split in from the ends in line with the longitudinal grain,
and if the spars are still free of the ribs and able to be worked on
easily, then simply gluing the split would result in at least equal
strength as an unsplit spar. (The same as a laminated spar) Properly glued,
with the proper glue, the joint will be much stronger than the surrounding
wood. The trick is getting the glue into that last bit of split, since any
area of unglued split introduces a potential failure into the spar and
compromises strength. I would think that a very small area of unglued
split would be less concern than a scarf joint, which because of the angle
of joint introducing some end grain difficulties, is not a joint I trust a
great deal.
At any rate, a traditional solution to small splits that have the potential
to run is to drill a small hole, say 1/4" at the end of the split. This
does not weaken the wood in the area as long as there is sufficient wood
around the hole, and contains the split by absorbing the stress or tension
at the end of the split.
Now I'm no engineer of any sort, and have only the most rudimentary idea of
the kinds of stresses a spar is expected to take, but I'm thinking that a
small area of unglued split in the interior portion of the spar would be no
more problematic than an internal check that would go unseen and is
possibly there in any piece of wood we use in terms of the kind of loads
the spar experiences.
Of course, this is all perhaps academic, since even someone who has worked
with wood a long time and has experienced most of the kinds of joint
failures that are possible and feels like he has a pretty good idea of how
to deal with wood for maximum strength and durability can feel very
different when the failure involves not falling out of a chair, but falling
out of the air. :-}
Bottom line, patching a split by regluing it (relaminating it) should
result in a piece of wood with at least equal total integrity and strength,
but you do what will allow you to sleep well at night before flying.
Phil Hopkins
Assistant Professor of Philosophy
Southwestern University
University at Maple
Georgetown, TX 78627
512-863-1882
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Yotz" <gyachts(at)kans.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
I would have to agree with Phil's assessment of the situation. I've
laminated split ends of boards before and they are as strong as the wood
anywhere along it's length. I used a vacuum bag with a vacuum pump to draw
glue into a joint and it seemed to fill completely. Of course the trick was
a vacuum pump with a high volume and a good seal on bag and wood.
Greg
>
> >
> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
> >safely?
> >
> >Richard
>
> I see you've gotten some good advice from various perspectives on this,
but
> I thought I'd add my 2p as a long time woodworker, just for consideration
> in yours and similar situations. It depends on what you mean by cracked,
> but if you mean split in from the ends in line with the longitudinal
grain,
> and if the spars are still free of the ribs and able to be worked on
> easily, then simply gluing the split would result in at least equal
> strength as an unsplit spar. (The same as a laminated spar) Properly
glued,
> with the proper glue, the joint will be much stronger than the surrounding
> wood. The trick is getting the glue into that last bit of split, since
any
> area of unglued split introduces a potential failure into the spar and
> compromises strength. I would think that a very small area of unglued
> split would be less concern than a scarf joint, which because of the angle
> of joint introducing some end grain difficulties, is not a joint I trust a
> great deal.
>
> At any rate, a traditional solution to small splits that have the
potential
> to run is to drill a small hole, say 1/4" at the end of the split. This
> does not weaken the wood in the area as long as there is sufficient wood
> around the hole, and contains the split by absorbing the stress or tension
> at the end of the split.
>
> Now I'm no engineer of any sort, and have only the most rudimentary idea
of
> the kinds of stresses a spar is expected to take, but I'm thinking that a
> small area of unglued split in the interior portion of the spar would be
no
> more problematic than an internal check that would go unseen and is
> possibly there in any piece of wood we use in terms of the kind of loads
> the spar experiences.
>
> Of course, this is all perhaps academic, since even someone who has worked
> with wood a long time and has experienced most of the kinds of joint
> failures that are possible and feels like he has a pretty good idea of how
> to deal with wood for maximum strength and durability can feel very
> different when the failure involves not falling out of a chair, but
falling
> out of the air. :-}
>
> Bottom line, patching a split by regluing it (relaminating it) should
> result in a piece of wood with at least equal total integrity and
strength,
> but you do what will allow you to sleep well at night before flying.
>
> Phil Hopkins
>
> Assistant Professor of Philosophy
> Southwestern University
> University at Maple
> Georgetown, TX 78627
> 512-863-1882
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
"Rodger & Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
I never saw spar repair by filling the crack with glue called out as
an acceptable fix in any FAA manual. I don't think Spartan or any
other A&P school calls out doing it that way either. I just have
trouble with that way of repair.
Try to get the spar blank replaced as not being what was wanted or
ordered, or use it in some other capacity.
Rodger
Piet in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
Richard,
I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.
About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long a
drill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack is
along the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end grain as
far as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your epoxy
and place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without making
the crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apart
while someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch) and
place some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottom
along the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set. Good
luck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should be no
problem.
Domenico
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
>Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
>12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
>with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
>safely?
>
>Richard
>
>
>=====
>Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
>My building progress:
>http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
>
>Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Domenico Bellissimo" <adbell(at)yesic.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
"Domenico Bellissimo"
Technically there is no reason why a cracked spaar should not be used if
repaired correctly. The crack is on the end and there is practically no load
there. If a completely severed spar splice is allowed using accepted
workmanship, then a repaired crack is not a big deal if done properly.
Domenico
-----Original Message-----
From: nle97(at)juno.com <nle97(at)juno.com>
aircamper(at)yahoo.com
Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
>Richard,
> I wouldn't use them. If they're new, see about getting a refund.
>Otherwise, I'd just cut them up and use them for smaller parts. Spars
>can be spliced, but it's not good to make more than one splice per spar.
>Patching them or just putting a doubler on top of a crack is not a wise
>thing to do.
>
>John Langston
>Pipe Creek, TX
>nle97(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked Spars |
Rodger & Betty Childs <childsway@indian-creek.net>
Another point of view:
Normally, AMHO is that most all the splits come out
from "stress" of the wood in a improper rate of
drying... So... well think your own conclussions.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- Rodger & Betty Childs <childsway@indian-creek.net>
wrote:
> Betty Childs" <childsway@indian-creek.net>
>
> I never saw spar repair by filling the crack with
> glue called out as
> an acceptable fix in any FAA manual. I don't think
> Spartan or any
> other A&P school calls out doing it that way either.
> I just have
> trouble with that way of repair.
>
> Try to get the spar blank replaced as not being what
> was wanted or
> ordered, or use it in some other capacity.
>
> Rodger
> Piet in progress
>
>
>
> through
>
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
> Matronics!
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael List <mclist(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Hey guys,
Just re-joined the chat group after a long absence and move from west to
east coast.
I see there has been some discussion on trying to patch up a cracked
spar of Richards that has 12 - 16 inch long cracks at both the root and
tip ends. I'm an aeronautical engineer who patches up old planes for a
living, and a woodworker, so I have a few words of caution.
Cut up that spar to use in non-structural areas, like fairing strips in
the turtleback, and try to get a refund. Any spar that has cracked just
sitting there is bad news, and probably contains hidden damage. It just
isn't worth the risk, and certainly not worth the effort it would take
to try and put on doublers that would be so thick and long that you
couldn't attach it to the center section or get the ribs on without
modification. And another scary thought, if the spar came from a small
shop, all of the spars may have come from the same tree and they may all
have hidden damage if the tree was improperly felled or had some growth
defect. I've gotten spruce from reputable sources that looked great,
but was brittle and failed tests miserably.
Please don't try and inject or suck in adhesive as a repair, either.
The spar is defective, and no amount of our wonderful modern adhesives
will fix it. Particularly at the root end where we drill our attach
fitting holes and, structurally, see some high loads. Take a look at AC
43-13 or, better yet, the old ANC 18. They may not have had epoxy back
then, but they sure had a lot of guys experienced in wood fabrication.
And they had the benefit of using the really strong, old growth spruce,
something in short supply to us despite the best efforts of suppliers.
With something as big as a spar, it isn't easy to load check it, so
thorough inspections are a must. With a bright light and a magnifying
glass. You can fashion a test rig that would apply some load to the
spar similar to what it sees in the plane, but be careful to prevent the
spar from twisting out of plane, which changes your loading and will
cause premature failure. Don't try and simulate a 4 to 6 g load, just
enough to try and reveal areas of the spar that are trying to fail. Or
you can do as some have suggested, laminate the spar from strips the way
Bernie Pietenpol did on some of his ships. That way you can check the
smaller components for defects before they go into the spar.
We are all building on a budget or half a shoestring, but the wing spars
are not an area to skimp on.
Safe building, and it's good to be back.
Mike List
Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
>
>
> Richard,
> I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.
> About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long a
> drill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack is
> along the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end grain as
> far as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your epoxy
> and place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without making
> the crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apart
> while someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch) and
> place some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottom
> along the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set. Good
> luck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should be no
> problem.
> Domenico
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
> To: Pietenpol AirCamper
> Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:31 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
> >
> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
> >safely?
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >
> >=====
> >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> >My building progress:
> >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
> >
> >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
DITTO Mike:
Great Post - i agree!
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael List" <mclist(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Just re-joined the chat group after a long absence and move from west to
> east coast.
>
> I see there has been some discussion on trying to patch up a cracked
> spar of Richards that has 12 - 16 inch long cracks at both the root and
> tip ends. I'm an aeronautical engineer who patches up old planes for a
> living, and a woodworker, so I have a few words of caution.
>
> Cut up that spar to use in non-structural areas, like fairing strips in
> the turtleback, and try to get a refund. Any spar that has cracked just
> sitting there is bad news, and probably contains hidden damage. It just
> isn't worth the risk, and certainly not worth the effort it would take
> to try and put on doublers that would be so thick and long that you
> couldn't attach it to the center section or get the ribs on without
> modification. And another scary thought, if the spar came from a small
> shop, all of the spars may have come from the same tree and they may all
> have hidden damage if the tree was improperly felled or had some growth
> defect. I've gotten spruce from reputable sources that looked great,
> but was brittle and failed tests miserably.
>
> Please don't try and inject or suck in adhesive as a repair, either.
> The spar is defective, and no amount of our wonderful modern adhesives
> will fix it. Particularly at the root end where we drill our attach
> fitting holes and, structurally, see some high loads. Take a look at AC
> 43-13 or, better yet, the old ANC 18. They may not have had epoxy back
> then, but they sure had a lot of guys experienced in wood fabrication.
> And they had the benefit of using the really strong, old growth spruce,
> something in short supply to us despite the best efforts of suppliers.
>
> With something as big as a spar, it isn't easy to load check it, so
> thorough inspections are a must. With a bright light and a magnifying
> glass. You can fashion a test rig that would apply some load to the
> spar similar to what it sees in the plane, but be careful to prevent the
> spar from twisting out of plane, which changes your loading and will
> cause premature failure. Don't try and simulate a 4 to 6 g load, just
> enough to try and reveal areas of the spar that are trying to fail. Or
> you can do as some have suggested, laminate the spar from strips the way
> Bernie Pietenpol did on some of his ships. That way you can check the
> smaller components for defects before they go into the spar.
>
> We are all building on a budget or half a shoestring, but the wing spars
> are not an area to skimp on.
>
> Safe building, and it's good to be back.
>
> Mike List
>
>
> Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
> >
> >
> > Richard,
> > I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.
> > About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long a
> > drill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack
is
> > along the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end
grain as
> > far as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your
epoxy
> > and place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without
making
> > the crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apart
> > while someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch)
and
> > place some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottom
> > along the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set.
Good
> > luck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should
be no
> > problem.
> > Domenico
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
> > To: Pietenpol AirCamper
> > Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:31 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
> >
> > >
> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
> > >safely?
> > >
> > >Richard
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > >My building progress:
> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
> > >
> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
| From: | Chris A Tracy <catdesigns(at)juno.com> |
http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~csellen/SSHome.htm
Found this group on the net. They are building a Piet in the UK and had
some good info I thought the rest of may be interested in.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
Roger that,,,,, My two cents is the spars are the heart of the whole
aircraft.
I like to save money and time where I can but ,,, the spars?,,
If they go away at the wrong time,,, it's RIP,, end of story.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Conoly
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
DITTO Mike:
Great Post - i agree!
Bert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael List" <mclist(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
> Hey guys,
>
> Just re-joined the chat group after a long absence and move from west to
> east coast.
>
> I see there has been some discussion on trying to patch up a cracked
> spar of Richards that has 12 - 16 inch long cracks at both the root and
> tip ends. I'm an aeronautical engineer who patches up old planes for a
> living, and a woodworker, so I have a few words of caution.
>
> Cut up that spar to use in non-structural areas, like fairing strips in
> the turtleback, and try to get a refund. Any spar that has cracked just
> sitting there is bad news, and probably contains hidden damage. It just
> isn't worth the risk, and certainly not worth the effort it would take
> to try and put on doublers that would be so thick and long that you
> couldn't attach it to the center section or get the ribs on without
> modification. And another scary thought, if the spar came from a small
> shop, all of the spars may have come from the same tree and they may all
> have hidden damage if the tree was improperly felled or had some growth
> defect. I've gotten spruce from reputable sources that looked great,
> but was brittle and failed tests miserably.
>
> Please don't try and inject or suck in adhesive as a repair, either.
> The spar is defective, and no amount of our wonderful modern adhesives
> will fix it. Particularly at the root end where we drill our attach
> fitting holes and, structurally, see some high loads. Take a look at AC
> 43-13 or, better yet, the old ANC 18. They may not have had epoxy back
> then, but they sure had a lot of guys experienced in wood fabrication.
> And they had the benefit of using the really strong, old growth spruce,
> something in short supply to us despite the best efforts of suppliers.
>
> With something as big as a spar, it isn't easy to load check it, so
> thorough inspections are a must. With a bright light and a magnifying
> glass. You can fashion a test rig that would apply some load to the
> spar similar to what it sees in the plane, but be careful to prevent the
> spar from twisting out of plane, which changes your loading and will
> cause premature failure. Don't try and simulate a 4 to 6 g load, just
> enough to try and reveal areas of the spar that are trying to fail. Or
> you can do as some have suggested, laminate the spar from strips the way
> Bernie Pietenpol did on some of his ships. That way you can check the
> smaller components for defects before they go into the spar.
>
> We are all building on a budget or half a shoestring, but the wing spars
> are not an area to skimp on.
>
> Safe building, and it's good to be back.
>
> Mike List
>
>
> Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
> >
> >
> > Richard,
> > I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.
> > About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long a
> > drill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack
is
> > along the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end
grain as
> > far as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your
epoxy
> > and place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without
making
> > the crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apart
> > while someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch)
and
> > place some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottom
> > along the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set.
Good
> > luck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should
be no
> > problem.
> > Domenico
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com>
> > To: Pietenpol AirCamper
> > Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:31 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
> >
> > >
> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about
> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did
> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it
> > >safely?
> > >
> > >Richard
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
> > >My building progress:
> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
> > >
> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard DeCosta <aircamper(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
So how would I make such a check on the remaining spars? I'm pretty
sure the damage came from improper handling by Northwest Cargo
(travelled all the way across the US), not necissarily from bad wood,
though I am _not_ an expert. How can I make sure the other spars werent
just on the verge of cracking themselves?
Richard
--- Michael List wrote:
> modification. And another scary thought, if the spar came from a
> small
> shop, all of the spars may have come from the same tree and they may
> all
> have hidden damage if the tree was improperly felled or had some
> growth
> defect. I've gotten spruce from reputable sources that looked great,
=====
Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/
My building progress:
http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | The UK piet project |
Thanks for the link Tracy. Interesting thing about this piet, looks like
they are using a different type of control horn.
Joe
>
>http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~csellen/SSHome.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Loar" <skycarl(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | The UK piet project |
Never seen one like that elevator control,,,, wonder it the stresses on the
leading edge of the elevator will be more than the wood can handle without
the brace back to the center beam.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joe Krzes
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The UK piet project
Thanks for the link Tracy. Interesting thing about this piet, looks like
they are using a different type of control horn.
Joe
>
>http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~csellen/SSHome.htm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Duprey <j-m-duprey(at)erols.com> |
Hi Guys: I noticed on Aircamper Org's photo gallery that A lot of Piets
have a nice Pietenpol Aircamper data plate on one of the instrument
panels. Anyone know of a source for these???
Thanks
John Duprey
Still Building Ribs!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael List <mclist(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars |
Richard,
Since I'm not an expert on all things wood either, I called on the guys
that are. Spoke to some gentlemen today at the Forest Products
Laboratory, a division of the U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest
Service (www.fpl.fs.fed.us), in Madison, WI. It was this groups
ancestors that came up with the wood design data you see in the old
ANC-18. I described your problem and asked for their thoughts on the
cause and how to determine if your other spars are ok. Here is a
synopsis of what they had to say:
The cause of the splitting, especially since it is present in both ends
of the spar, is most likely improper drying techniques, not a defect in
the wood itself. One of the other chat group members hit this one right
on the head the other day. Proper drying of the wood is done over a
period of time in a kiln to bring the wood moisture content down to
around 12%-15%. If it isn't done right, or isn't done at all, then
chances are as the wood continues to dry after you receive it, the
moisture inside is wicking towards the ends of the spar and that is
where the splitting will occur. They felt that, if all the spars were
cut from the same log at the same time and dried in the same manner,
then they would have all started to split by now. They suggested
checking for moisture content by cutting out a section of the bad spar,
measure it for volume, weigh it, then stick it in an oven at 200 degrees
for a day (I know, that's a long time, maybe a smaller sample would work
with less time), then weigh it again. By comparing weights and knowing
the volume, you could determine moisture content. One gentleman, a Mr.
David Green, their expert on testing methods, is out this week and won't
be back until Monday. I'll give him a call next week and get his
recommendations as well.
The bottom line seems to be that if your other spars haven't split yet,
they are probably ok. When do you plan to assemble your wings? If you
have the time, I would keep the spars, including the split one, up on a
straight rack with strips of wood separating the spars so air can
circulate around them. Mark the ends of the splits so you can check
later to see if they grew. Keep them there all winter, when the air is
drier, and see if any splits occur in the other spars. If they haven't
split by spring, the three other ones should be fine. I still recommend
replacing the split one with a new spar. You could cut off the bad ends
and splice it to another spar section per AC 43-13, but is it worth the
time and effort? Injecting or glueing the splits back together works
fine for furniture, but I don't have any data showing how well it holds
up with load cycles and vibration, so I don't advise that technique in
an aircraft.
As a side note, I learned today that wood, kept at 70 degrees F with
relative humidity of the air between 50% - 65%, will stabilize around
the magical 12% moisture content. Was always curious about that.
I don't mean to scare or discourage you, just trying to help you build
safe. And I won't leave you hanging. More info as a I get it. Or you
could always call them yourself at (608) 231-9200. They were very
helpful and eager to answer questions.
Mike List
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>
> So how would I make such a check on the remaining spars? I'm pretty
> sure the damage came from improper handling by Northwest Cargo
> (travelled all the way across the US), not necissarily from bad wood,
> though I am _not_ an expert. How can I make sure the other spars werent
> just on the verge of cracking themselves?
>
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael List <mclist(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars] |
--------------249146F721FC
Oops, just realized I sent this to Domenico alone.
--------------249146F721FC
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:25:05 -0700
From: Michael List <mclist(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Domenico and all,
Hmm, you sound suspicious of my intentions and qualificaitons. Better
put on my Hong Kong Phooey cape and mask and prepare to defend myself!
As I am the engineer I claim (though some days I would rather not be!),
I can tell you that, in this case, it isn't necessary to run load cases
on the wing to determine a fix. More on that in a minute. Yes, the
spar can be spliced per AC 43-13, as you point out. My objection is
with injecting adhesive into the cracks or stop drilling the end of the
crack, as some have suggested, which leaves a questionable section of
spar. Is injecting adhesive a strong repair for furniture? Yes. Would
injecting adhesive in there also work on aircraft structure which see
greater load cycles, bounce over lovely grassy fields, and have a heck
of a good time? Maybe. Do I have the data and test results to back it
up? No. If it exists, then I would look at it. Until then, I'll be
the coward and stick to proven techniques.
As to running load calculations, after a long day running numbers,
writing repairs, crawling around with mechanics and technicians inside
of smelly, dirty wings and fuel cells, the last thing I want to do is
come home and start over again. My wife and children are much more
fun! That is why I chose a Pietenpol, it has over 70 years of testing
behind it! It's a no-brainer, all I have to do is build and enjoy! But
seriously, you better believe there are loads in the root end of your
wing spars, right where they attach to the center section. Those lift
struts out there that hold the wings down means there are also loads
running inboard and outboard along the spars, in addition to the lift
and drag loads which are always changing with manuvers, gusts, etc.
Combinations of compression and tension loads running all around our
wires, struts, spars and fittings. Out at the wing tip the loads are
pretty small, at least until we groundloop(!) and hook a wing tip.
In the real world, if we are repairing some aircraft structure for
which we don't have the original stress reports, we just look at the
original capability of the structure. Then we say, ok, we just lost
this much cross section, how do we add the same amount plus a tiny bit
more (to allow for less than perfect installations), add in some fatigue
features so it lasts a long time, and make sure we have enough fasteners
to transfer loads where we want them to go. Simplified, but you see the
idea. In the case of the root end of the Piet spar (for a three piece
wing), there are already doublers there. These aren't for repair, but
part of the original design strength. Now if we want to account for the
cracks, and since I have no data to show injected cracks are good for
anything, I'll have to add more cross section to the doublers, plus run
them outboard past the ends of the cracks, and make sure they feather
into the spar to reduce stress risers. And it just became a big mess,
what with having to modify center section dimensions (at just one
corner, no less), modify ribs, change the route out sections of the
spar, and committing the cardinal sin of adding weight, all to a brand
new airplane.
Anyway, I have used up enough of the groups k-bytes and patience here.
See the separate answer to Richard with some info I got from the Forest
Products Laboratory. Off to dreamland.
Build safe!
Mike List
Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> If you are an aeronautical Engineer, then do the calculations and provide us
> with the answer. As far as I'm aware there are virtually no loads
> what-so-ever at the either ends of the spar.The crack as I understand is a
> longitudinal one not perpendicluar to the grain structure. If you are also
> a wood worker then you know that a repair is always stronger, than the
> original wood itself, if done according to CAM-18 (now another number). How
> can it possibly fail after the repair if it has 1/8" ply on either side of
> the Spar. Your recommendation however is a good one, because repairing it
> would leed to other fitting complications that can be avoided if he goes to
> a new Spar. He would have a cleaner installation and would not have to
> modify the ribs to get them into place. But, if money is the problem and I
> don't think it is, then technically there is no reason the Spar could not be
> saved. IMHO. My wing end from the flying strut out broke away completely,
> and I am splicing (16:1 ratio). This is an accepted practice. Has been for a
> long time. My inspector has no problem with this. Anyway the point is mute
> since Richard has already decided he would change the Spar.
> Regards,
>
> Domenico
>
--------------249146F721FC--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> |
"'Michael List'"
Hey Mike, Nice to have you back on the list. Your comments are refreshing
and welcome. How about a status update? The kids still excited about the
project?
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
List
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Richard,
Since I'm not an expert on all things wood either, I called on the guys
that are. Spoke to some gentlemen today at the Forest Products
Laboratory, a division of the U.S. Department of Agriculture Forest
Service (www.fpl.fs.fed.us), in Madison, WI. It was this groups
ancestors that came up with the wood design data you see in the old
ANC-18. I described your problem and asked for their thoughts on the
cause and how to determine if your other spars are ok. Here is a
synopsis of what they had to say:
The cause of the splitting, especially since it is present in both ends
of the spar, is most likely improper drying techniques, not a defect in
the wood itself. One of the other chat group members hit this one right
on the head the other day. Proper drying of the wood is done over a
period of time in a kiln to bring the wood moisture content down to
around 12%-15%. If it isn't done right, or isn't done at all, then
chances are as the wood continues to dry after you receive it, the
moisture inside is wicking towards the ends of the spar and that is
where the splitting will occur. They felt that, if all the spars were
cut from the same log at the same time and dried in the same manner,
then they would have all started to split by now. They suggested
checking for moisture content by cutting out a section of the bad spar,
measure it for volume, weigh it, then stick it in an oven at 200 degrees
for a day (I know, that's a long time, maybe a smaller sample would work
with less time), then weigh it again. By comparing weights and knowing
the volume, you could determine moisture content. One gentleman, a Mr.
David Green, their expert on testing methods, is out this week and won't
be back until Monday. I'll give him a call next week and get his
recommendations as well.
The bottom line seems to be that if your other spars haven't split yet,
they are probably ok. When do you plan to assemble your wings? If you
have the time, I would keep the spars, including the split one, up on a
straight rack with strips of wood separating the spars so air can
circulate around them. Mark the ends of the splits so you can check
later to see if they grew. Keep them there all winter, when the air is
drier, and see if any splits occur in the other spars. If they haven't
split by spring, the three other ones should be fine. I still recommend
replacing the split one with a new spar. You could cut off the bad ends
and splice it to another spar section per AC 43-13, but is it worth the
time and effort? Injecting or glueing the splits back together works
fine for furniture, but I don't have any data showing how well it holds
up with load cycles and vibration, so I don't advise that technique in
an aircraft.
As a side note, I learned today that wood, kept at 70 degrees F with
relative humidity of the air between 50% - 65%, will stabilize around
the magical 12% moisture content. Was always curious about that.
I don't mean to scare or discourage you, just trying to help you build
safe. And I won't leave you hanging. More info as a I get it. Or you
could always call them yourself at (608) 231-9200. They were very
helpful and eager to answer questions.
Mike List
Richard DeCosta wrote:
>
>
> So how would I make such a check on the remaining spars? I'm pretty
> sure the damage came from improper handling by Northwest Cargo
> (travelled all the way across the US), not necissarily from bad wood,
> though I am _not_ an expert. How can I make sure the other spars werent
> just on the verge of cracking themselves?
>
> Richard
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Meadows" <gwmeadows(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars] |
Michael,
Thank you for a very well thought out answer, and the gracious attitude
with which you provided the information. Although we haven't overlapped any
on the Piet List, (I've been on it for about a year now), I can tell you're
going to be a valuable resource for all of us as time goes by. Get ready for
the onslaught!
I checked the latest 43-13 (Ch 1, Section 4, par 1-40 for you reg-readers
out there)and while splices are fine, it recommended not having a splice
beneath a wing attachment fitting. To me, glueing split spar ends back
together, with ply plates covering, constitutes a splice - two separate
pieces of wood glued together. To me, that was the deciding factor. I intend
to use accepted methods practices and parts on my Piet. A shortcut in a
critical area like spars could be a shortcut to the ground!
They also make a big deal about completely sealing the butt end of the
spar to prevent future cracking. The 43-13 recommended using a slow-curing
epoxy adhesive or sealer to seal the ends off. I haven't looked at the 43-13
in a while, it's good reading!
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren D. Shoun" <wbnb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars] |
For standard storage of fresh cut lumber, a Sitka Spruce supplier in Alaska
uses simple latex paint, unthinned, on the ends. It is moisture compatible,
soaks up the end grain and prevents the end grain sections from drying out fast
enough to split. I purchased several hundred board feet from him, an on his
recommendation, applied a second coat when it arrived, and have no splits at
all.
Cheers,
Warren.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
You'd think I would have figured this out before now. OK, everyone, the drawings
show the elevator horn angled toward the center, obviously, because the elevator
cables come from a single point and angle out. My question is, do the horns
really go on at an angle, or are they straight with a shackle on them to allow
the cable to pull off at an angle?? There are a couple of problems with angling
the horn: (1) it places the bolt holes too near the edges of the spar, and (2)
the geometry of an angled horn is bizarre when you start pulling on it, it tries
to twist the whold spar out of line rather than merely rotating it. I am
assuming that the drawing is incorrect where it shows the horns angled in, or am
I missing something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cracked spars] |
Whay Mike List says is absolutely correct. I've been an A&P mechanic for
32 years and an AI for 29 and what I like doing best is structural
repairs. I have worked closely with structural engineers in the past and
have always related well with them. I've rebuilt several wrecked
aircraft and I've recovered many fabric airplanes over the years. I've
also spliced a number of wooden spars. Cracked wood is nothing to fool
around with. The spar is what holds you up and when they decide to go,
they don't usually just give a little but will completely fail. Although
it is not necessary, if one wants, to follow all the FAA regs or to
adhere to the data in AC 43.13-2b in a homebuilt to get it licensed,
these things were written based upon experience. Spars can be safely
spliced, but there should only be one repair splice per wing. If the
wood is cracked from the gitgo, even at the ends, something is wrong. It
is wise to inspect your wood before using it even if it came as certified
wood. The quickest and easiest way is to simply go along with a good,
powerful magnifying glass and llok for splits and cracks. Pay attention
to the grain deviations and spacing. All it takes is common sense and
patience.
John Langston
Pipe Creek, TX
nle97(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>
> --------------249146F721FC
>
> Oops, just realized I sent this to Domenico alone.
>
> --------------249146F721FC
>
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:25:05 -0700
> From: Michael List <mclist(at)bellsouth.net>
> To: Domenico Bellissimo
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
>
> Domenico and all,
>
> Hmm, you sound suspicious of my intentions and qualificaitons.
> Better
> put on my Hong Kong Phooey cape and mask and prepare to defend
> myself!
> As I am the engineer I claim (though some days I would rather not
> be!),
> I can tell you that, in this case, it isn't necessary to run load
> cases
> on the wing to determine a fix. More on that in a minute. Yes, the
> spar can be spliced per AC 43-13, as you point out. My objection is
> with injecting adhesive into the cracks or stop drilling the end of
> the
> crack, as some have suggested, which leaves a questionable section
> of
> spar. Is injecting adhesive a strong repair for furniture? Yes.
> Would
> injecting adhesive in there also work on aircraft structure which
> see
> greater load cycles, bounce over lovely grassy fields, and have a
> heck
> of a good time? Maybe. Do I have the data and test results to back
> it
> up? No. If it exists, then I would look at it. Until then, I'll
> be
> the coward and stick to proven techniques.
>
> As to running load calculations, after a long day running numbers,
> writing repairs, crawling around with mechanics and technicians
> inside
> of smelly, dirty wings and fuel cells, the last thing I want to do
> is
> come home and start over again. My wife and children are much more
> fun! That is why I chose a Pietenpol, it has over 70 years of
> testing
> behind it! It's a no-brainer, all I have to do is build and enjoy!
> But
> seriously, you better believe there are loads in the root end of
> your
> wing spars, right where they attach to the center section. Those
> lift
> struts out there that hold the wings down means there are also loads
> running inboard and outboard along the spars, in addition to the
> lift
> and drag loads which are always changing with manuvers, gusts, etc.
> Combinations of compression and tension loads running all around our
> wires, struts, spars and fittings. Out at the wing tip the loads
> are
> pretty small, at least until we groundloop(!) and hook a wing tip.
>
> In the real world, if we are repairing some aircraft structure for
> which we don't have the original stress reports, we just look at the
> original capability of the structure. Then we say, ok, we just lost
> this much cross section, how do we add the same amount plus a tiny
> bit
> more (to allow for less than perfect installations), add in some
> fatigue
> features so it lasts a long time, and make sure we have enough
> fasteners
> to transfer loads where we want them to go. Simplified, but you see
> the
> idea. In the case of the root end of the Piet spar (for a three
> piece
> wing), there are already doublers there. These aren't for repair,
> but
> part of the original design strength. Now if we want to account for
> the
> cracks, and since I have no data to show injected cracks are good
> for
> anything, I'll have to add more cross section to the doublers, plus
> run
> them outboard past the ends of the cracks, and make sure they
> feather
> into the spar to reduce stress risers. And it just became a big
> mess,
> what with having to modify center section dimensions (at just one
> corner, no less), modify ribs, change the route out sections of the
> spar, and committing the cardinal sin of adding weight, all to a
> brand
> new airplane.
>
> Anyway, I have used up enough of the groups k-bytes and patience
> here.
> See the separate answer to Richard with some info I got from the
> Forest
> Products Laboratory. Off to dreamland.
>
> Build safe!
>
> Mike List
>
>
> Domenico Bellissimo wrote:
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > If you are an aeronautical Engineer, then do the calculations and
> provide us
> > with the answer. As far as I'm aware there are virtually no loads
> > what-so-ever at the either ends of the spar.The crack as I
> understand is a
> > longitudinal one not perpendicluar to the grain structure. If you
> are also
> > a wood worker then you know that a repair is always stronger,
> than the
> > original wood itself, if done according to CAM-18 (now another
> number). How
> > can it possibly fail after the repair if it has 1/8" ply on either
> side of
> > the Spar. Your recommendation however is a good one, because
> repairing it
> > would leed to other fitting complications that can be avoided if
> he goes to
> > a new Spar. He would have a cleaner installation and would not
> have to
> > modify the ribs to get them into place. But, if money is the
> problem and I
> > don't think it is, then technically there is no reason the Spar
> could not be
> > saved. IMHO. My wing end from the flying strut out broke away
> completely,
> > and I am splicing (16:1 ratio). This is an accepted practice. Has
> been for a
> > long time. My inspector has no problem with this. Anyway the point
> is mute
> > since Richard has already decided he would change the Spar.
> > Regards,
> >
> > Domenico
> >
>
> --------------249146F721FC--
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Rambo <rambog(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: magneto switch |
My home computer crashed, along with all of my e-mail addresses and received
messages. I had many responses to my offer to sell a couple of Bendix
single-ignition magneto switches. I promised them to the first two takers, Mike
Bell and someone else who I cannot recall. I turned down all subsequent takers,
but promised to contact them if either of the first two backed out. Well, I have
received payment from Mike, but not the other person, and I do not remember who
you were. If that person still wants the switch, please contact me. If I do not
hear from that person, if some of you who I promised to contact would let me know
who you are, I will go to the next person. (the next person in line was someone
who asked for two switches, and had a husband/wife name e-mail address)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Cardinal" <gcardinal(at)startribune.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator horns |
"Greg Cardinal"
The elevator horns on my Piet are being installed at a 13 deg. angle.
Greg Cardinal
>>> Gene Rambo 09/29 10:34 AM >>>
You'd think I would have figured this out before now. OK, everyone, the drawings
show the elevator horn angled toward the center, obviously, because the elevator
cables come from a single point and angle out. My question is, do the horns
really go on at an angle, or are they straight with a shackle on them to allow
the cable to pull off at an angle?? There are a couple of problems with angling
the horn: (1) it places the bolt holes too near the edges of the spar, and (2)
the geometry of an angled horn is bizarre when you start pulling on it, it tries
to twist the whold spar out of line rather than merely rotating it. I am
assuming that the drawing is incorrect where it shows the horns angled in, or am
I missing something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Conoly" <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers |
Gentlemen:
Did ya'll rib stitch the fabric to the ribs on the horiz stab, vert stab and
control surfaces?
I've seen some with and some without. I'm betting it's a good idea, huh?
Thanks, Bert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol data plates |
John Duprey asked about the availability of Pietenpol data plates:
A source is Brian C. Amato
P.O.Box 6321
Traverse City MI 49685-6321
Brian puts out a beautiful printed "B.H.Pietenpol Aircraft Factory, Cherry
Grove, Minn." plate with space for your serial number, manufacturing date,
model and engine, etc. A few years ago they were less than $10 per copy
and a bargain at that price. Order several, and put one on your desk.
Reed Hamilton, publisher of the "Pietenpol and Pietenpol-like Directory" -
191 School Street, Manchester, MA 01944 ($18 PP) reminded me of Brain's
address.
Doc Mosher
Oshkosh USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walter evans" <wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers |
"walter evans"
The pro's say to stitch all those surfaces to stop the fabric from
"fluttering" on the frames. Can't hurt. It would only take about an hour
more to do the tail surfaces.
walt
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
----- Original Message -----
From: Conoly <bconoly(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Rib Stitching on Tailfeathers
>
> Gentlemen:
>
> Did ya'll rib stitch the fabric to the ribs on the horiz stab, vert stab
and
> control surfaces?
>
> I've seen some with and some without. I'm betting it's a good idea, huh?
>
> Thanks, Bert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mosher <docshop(at)famvid.com> |
| Subject: | Ken Perkins Pietenpol in "Kitplanes" magazine |
A number of us visited with Ken Perkins at the Brodhead Piet fly-in and at
AirVenture 2000 in Oshkosh, where he flew his newly completed (May 2000)
Ford powered Pietenpol, N34KP.
Now we all get to see a photo of it on page 70 in the November issue of
"Kitplanes." Ken flew it to Wisconsin from his home in Olathe Kansas.
August 28, 2000 - October 01, 2000
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-br